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Coach

Jairek Robbins – Performance Coach, Best-Selling Author, International Speaker

Jairek Robbins – Performance Coach, Best-Selling Author, International Speaker
About Jairek Robbins

Jairek Robbins (@jairekrobbins) is one of the worlds leading business and life strategists. He is a Best-Selling author. FastCompany calls him inspiring and says he’ll make your life less ordinary. Forbes says Jairek will teach you how to succeed. Deepak Chopra will advise you to go to Jairek to help create meaning and fulfillment in your life.

Brian Tracy applauds Jairek’s ability to teach people how to develop meaning and purpose in life and then to make a difference in the lives of others. Looking for ways to level up in life and business? Jairek is your guy. You can connect with Jairek here: https://www.instagram.com/jairekrobbins/

Connect with Jairek: Email | Instagram | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

jairekrobbins.com

Ideal Day Exercise – Jairek Robbins

Live It!: Achieve Success by Living with Purpose by Jairek Robbins

The Complete Guide to Activating High Performance by Jairek Robbins

Learn It Live It Give It with Jairek Robbins Podcast

FastCompany

Forbes

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. A few years ago, I had a podcast called The High Performing Student. I did about 250 episodes on the show, and every episode was geared towards helping students become the best versions of themselves. There were a few episodes and interviews in particular that I found so valuable, that I thought I would share them on this podcast as well. And you heard the first two earlier this week, one with Dr. Ivan Joseph, another one was Sarah Wells. And I’m just as excited for today’s interview with Jairek Robbins. Jairek Robbins is one of the world’s leading business and life strategists. He is a bestselling author. Fast company calls him inspiring and says he’ll make your life less ordinary. Forbes says Jairek will teach you how to succeed. Deepak Chopra will advise you to go to Jairek for help for creating meaning and fulfillment in your life.

Sam Demma (01:02):

Brian Tracy applauds Jairek’s ability to teach people how to develop meaning and purpose in life, and then to make a difference in the lives of others. Jairek Robbins is Anthony Robbins, Tony Robbin’s son, and is doing such amazing work in the world with businesses, individuals and philanthropically. So I hope you enjoy this very meaningful conversation with Jairek, and I will see you on the other side. Jairek, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Student podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. I actually want you to start by reciting to the audience what your ideal day would look like and you don’t have to get it word for word, but let the audience know what your ideal day would look like and give us a peek into who you are and, and what you appreciate and love in life.

Jairek Robbins (01:49):

Sure. So are they familiar with the Ideal Day concept?

Sam Demma (01:54):

That’s a great question. They should be if they’ve been listening to this show for a long time, but you can give ’em a little refresher as well.

Jairek Robbins (02:00):

Okay. So I, I remember I was living in Africa. I was teaching organic farming. I was in a village just outside of Jinja. It’s this little farming village. It was a pineapple village is where I was. And I got malaria twice. At one point, the doctor sat me down and told me I had six days left to live. And I remember thinking at 20, what, 22 years old, 21 years old. Like, that was not the plan. And, and there were so many other things I wanted to do and, and I, I wanted to get married. I wanted to travel. I wanted to finish school. I wanted to have a business. I wanted to have a child. I wanted to, to help more. I wanted so many things just flash before my eyes. And I remember sitting down and thinking, wow, number one, I hope he’s not correct.

Jairek Robbins (02:49):

I hope I have more than just six days, but if I only did have six days, how would I need to live my life so that on day six, I could high five myself on the way out and be thrilled to do so? And I remember thinking about that, and j j just wondering like, what would I, how would I wanna live? How would I want to treat people? How would I wanna be remembered? How would I want to remember the people around me? And, and I started to think about this day, and it was more about creating little memories each day, soaking in the magnificence of life, just being able to see the wind blow through the leaves and talk to someone and, and say something that might put a smile on their face. And as all of this started to come together, I realized that my ideal day was just being able to reach people, you know, and, and bring a little light into their world.

Jairek Robbins (03:59):

And I was like, that. If I could just do that, that would be amazing. Now, I also realized that without a vision, people perish. And so I thought about that and I was like, well, maybe I should have a vision beyond the sixth day, otherwise I’m kind of in trouble <laugh>. So, so I thought about it and it’s like, well, all those things I just flashed before my eyes that I said I wanted to do. I better write ’em down and, and not just hope they happened, but actually have a plan that they were gonna happen. So I I, I literally had a little journal with me and I started writing down like the specific things I would do and, and finishing school and finding someone to get married with, that we love each other, and, and falling head over heels in love and, and having a family and traveling the world more and making a difference, and building a school and building a hospital.

Jairek Robbins (04:48):

And, and like all these things started to come out. And then it seemed a little overwhelming. I was like, how in the heck am I gonna do all of that <laugh>? And so I was bouncing between like, just observing the wind in the leave, in the leaves to like, oh my God, there’s so much I want to do. How in the heck am I gonna do it all? And what I figured out was if I could just summarize in the future what just one day would look like, maybe, maybe I could just make that one day happen. Hmm. And then my thought is like, well, wait a second. If I could make the one day happen, I could probably make the whole vision happen. Yeah. But let me just figure out the one day. And so for me, that’s where that one day, the ideal day process came from.

Jairek Robbins (05:40):

 and at the time, I don’t remember the exact one I created back then, but I remember when I got home and I got a little bit healthy, and I, I finished school and I was going into business. I remember I was working really hard one year, and I sat down and I said, you know, if I could have, and this is a great phrase to start with, if I could have it all my way, mm, if I could have it all my way, I probably won’t get it all my way. But if I could have it all my way, here’s what I’d put in my ideal day. And, and so I just wrote it all down as if I could have it all my way. And so I just thought about it. If I could have it on my way, here’s what life would look like.

Jairek Robbins (06:17):

And I’d wake up in the morning, I would work out, I, I would be with someone that I’m head over heels in love with. we, we would, you know, meditate and journal and mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually prepare for our day. We’d go get a vigorous workout in. We, we would do something together around, you know, connecting and deepening our relationship, filling each other’s buckets and cups so we feel full and overwhelmed, deepening our connection to each other. fast forward, you know, have some great breakfast, and then get into the day. And, and in the day, I’d be part of creating things that help people. That’s something that’s really important to me. I, I, I seem to like humans a a lot and, and I like to help ’em, you know, how can I help these people live a better life, be a little bit more happy, be a little bit more healthy, be a little bit more fulfilled in all that they’re doing?

Jairek Robbins (07:09):

And so, over the years, we’ve learned how to specialize in three spaces, which is how to help people discover and create lasting love. How to help people have, you know, increased personal performance mentally, emotionally, physically, and how to help people you know, to grow their businesses and, and create a, a profit center that can fund the life they wanna live. And, and so as we’ve done these things, that was part of my vision back then is creating elements, creating content, creating experiences, creating tools that would help people make this kind of stuff happen. Fast forward throughout the day be able to take time for lunch and, and go spend time laughing and communicating with someone I really love. Fast forward even more. when it came time to the sunset, one of my favorite things my wife and my son and I go do every single day as we go out to the beach here and we watch the sunset for 15, 20 minutes, and, and being able to just soak in the magnificence of life every day and observe just the miracles of nature happening before your eyes fast forward into the evening I’d probably be either laughing, so watching something or doing something that, that brings laughter and joy or learning, doing something that, that we could learn and, and, and deepen our knowledge or experience around something.

Jairek Robbins (08:26):

And so my wife and I right now we’re taking accounting at, at Harvard online. So we do our accounting course every night. And, and we’re just learning more about you know, the books of accounts and how to use ’em and, and how to track ’em and all that jazz. So, so we’re, we’re doing all these things, but that was kind of the vision. And then before bed, just reflecting and reviewing, if this was my last day, what are the things I’m truly, truly grateful for? Before wrapping it all up, I love that

Sam Demma (08:54):

There’s so much to unpack. And you hit on so many major buckets, things that you would call the majors versus the minors. You talk about it in chapter two. You hit on health when it comes to working out. you hit on professional, you know, when it came to working and creating products that help others. Jim Ron always used to say, we have to stop majoring in minor things. And I think you’re someone who believes in that as well. What are the major categories of life and why is it important that we focus on those big buckets before we address all the other sometimes trivial stuff?

Jairek Robbins (09:30):

Sure. Great question. If you look at majors, how, and I believe they’re different for different people, there’s some that are gonna be the same across the board, but, but people have their priorities in life and, and they’re gonna figure out what’s most important to them. That the key with a major, if you look at it, you gotta ask yourself, by investing a significant period of effort, thought, energy, resources into this part of my life. Hmm. Number one, is it good for me? Now, people like to try to argue this and, and, and debate. There’s certain things that are good for you, and there’s certain things that are not. Period. And, and you, you, you know, if you go to the doctor, there’s certain things that are good for you. There’s certain things that are not, some things will put you into the hospital. Some things will get you out of the hospital.

Jairek Robbins (10:22):

And, and just think of it that way. So, so when you think of kind of where you’re gonna focus, are these things good for you? Number two, life isn’t just about you. That’s why when I was saying, Hey, as much as if I could have it all my way, that’d be great. Well, the truth is, life isn’t just about me. Life is about all of us. So the second part is not only is it good for you, but is it good for other people? Hmm. Is it good for other people? Number three, does it feel good? You know, you can find something that’s good for you, good for others, but my gut, it, it feels like crap. It’s horrible. Yeah. But, but number three is, is it, does it feel good? And then number four, is it good for the greater good of humanity? The whole, not just people alive now, but people alive. You know, when we’re dead in the future, is it something that’ll serve much longer than us? And so if you think about that and you just kind of analyze all the major categories of your life, if you analyze all the things you spend the most time doing, just ask, is it good for you? Is it good for others? Does it serve? And do I enjoy doing it? And, and if there’s a sweet spot where it hits all four, my goodness, it’s probably pretty smart thing to keep doing.

Jairek Robbins (11:39):

But if it doesn’t feel good, it’s not good for you, it’s not good for others, and it doesn’t serve, it’s probably a distraction. It’s probably something that you’re using to numb or avoid the things you really need to be focused on. And so I use that kind of framework to think about this and then look at the categories and say, you know, is being healthy as a human, mentally, emotionally, physically, spiritually healthy? I don’t know. Do you think that’s a good idea or bad idea? I’ve yet to meet a person who goes, yeah, it’s a bunch of crap. You don’t need help. <laugh>. That’s a major, that’s a big one. What about, you know, there’s a big uprising right now over the, the horrors and, and how horrible capitalism ish. Okay? But at this point in history, you’re going to either need a trade, which a tradesman or a tradeswoman was someone who knew how to make horseshoes or knew how to you know, sew things into garments or knew how to go and source food.

Jairek Robbins (12:53):

so you’re either gonna need a trade, some value you can add to society, that society would trade you a place to live supplies and things you need to survive and live a life, or you’re gonna need a job, you’re gonna need something you can do as a job or a business that’ll provide you income. And, and you can use the money to then trade for the supplies and stuff you need. So either you’re gonna need to have some value within you that you can trade for it, or you’re gonna need to have some type of income or job or business to get there. So that’s kind of a major, you know, I was teasing my little cousin. I was like, I don’t know if the pizza guy is gonna give you a pizza if you just give ’em four high fives <laugh>. Like, it doesn’t generally work that way nowadays.

Jairek Robbins (13:40):

You, you’re gonna need something to offer, you’re gonna need some value to bring the life. And the most predominant value in the world right now is some sort of currency. And a currency is nothing more than agreed upon element of life that people have agreed, ah, this is valuable. I always thought about this. If you, if you take a dollar and look at the physical form of it, and you’re like, what is the tactical value of a dollar? Hmm, not much. Like if, I mean, you can’t do much with the actual thing. Like you could kind of eat it, but that’s not gonna work out well long term. You might be able to light it on fire, but that’ll last like 42 seconds. <laugh>, what do you, what can you do with it? Nothing. Yeah. But we carry this stuff around, or the digital version because society as a whole, this community or group or, or or tribe of people has come up with the concept and agreed that this is worth a certain amount of value.

Jairek Robbins (14:42):

Hmm. If people stopped agreeing that it was worth that, there’s no use for it. I remember I was flying to go see a client in London and I landed, ran to the train station, got to the, you know, central London, ran, hopped in a taxi, took off, got to the meeting a few minutes late, and I went to go pay the guy and I said, Hey, can I just pay with a credit card or Venmo or pay? Like, what do you got? And he goes, no, I only take cash. And I was like, can I pay you with US dollars? He went, no, how much is it? He goes, 66. You know, it was like 66 or 67 pounds, which is British currency. I was like, how about I’ll give you a hundred dollars, it’s worth more. Or I I 150. Like, I offered him significantly more than just a different currency. And he went, no, I don’t want that. What am I gonna do with it? <laugh>, I like to take it to the bank. They’ll give you pounds. You’ll have more pounds from this than I than if I just gave you pounds. She was like, no.

Jairek Robbins (15:40):

I was like, okay, gimme a minute. So I went inside, I went to the bar, I’m like, maybe this person’s smart. I’ll give you a hundred dollars if you give me 50 pounds or 60 pounds, whatever it was, like, you will make money on the transaction. Bartender looked at me and said, what am I supposed to do with that? I was like, you gotta be kidding me, <laugh>. So I went to my client at the table and I said, here, I’m in a weird predicament. Can I give you a hundred dollars or $200 in return for 66 pounds? And he is like, dude, here’s the money. Don’t even worry about it. And I started laughing. I’m like, no, no, I’ll pay for dinner. He’s like, no, no, you’re good. And I’m like, come on. And, and so I finally went and paid the guy pounds. And I just realized in the moment, they didn’t agree to the value of the bill.

Jairek Robbins (16:26):

That’s it. And when someone stops agreeing to the value of the bill, it’s not worth anything. Now, it’s interesting is that’s not true with your life. Someone else doesn’t have to see value for you to be valuable, but you have to be able to look in the mirror and see value for you to be valuable. So if you don’t see value in you, there’s no value there, no matter how much the rest of the world sees it. And so that there, there’s factors in here that are important of perception. Now we all agree that certain things are valuable. And so that’s kind of a major, you know, we have to agree on some type of value exchange in order to gather the resources in, in life you wanna live. So that, that would consider that a major, being able to add value of some way or some sort to be able to exchange for the things that you’re looking for.

Jairek Robbins (17:21):

 relationships, I’ve, I’ve met a lot of people and no matter how much value you add, and no matter how much you’re loved by society, and no matter how big of of a car you can get, or house you can buy or trips you can take, when you add all this stuff up, if you don’t find someone to share it all with, it doesn’t feel like it’s worth much. And so that’s kind of a major one. Can you find someone to share life with? Like, first, can you figure it out? But then second, once you kind of figured it out, can you find someone to share it with? Otherwise it gets pretty lonely. other categories that exist in there how are you gonna manage your resources every day? How are you gonna manage your time? How are you gonna manage your focus? You know, no matter how great your life is, if you sat there and focused on the one thing that was wrong with it all day long, you’re not gonna have a pretty great life.

Jairek Robbins (18:13):

You’re gonna have a horrible life cuz you’re focused on the one thing that’s wrong with your whole life versus no matter how challenging your life is, if you focused on the two things that are good about it, you’re gonna feel pretty good regardless of the circumstance. So I think focus is probably a, a pretty big major where you focus your time, effort, and resources. So there’s lots of these, but you can sort through ’em and just make pe you know, if, if you make yourself think, you’ll start to realize there’s a pattern in the pattern is if it’s not good for you, it’s not good for others and it doesn’t serve the greater good, you probably shouldn’t be doing it. But if it’s good for you, good for others and serves the greater good. Sounds like a pretty good idea.

Sam Demma (18:52):

<laugh>. I love it. I love the qualifying criteria. You mentioned earlier that maybe a last point could even be if it, if you enjoy it, if it feels good. And I know there’s young people that argue that playing Fortnite feels great <laugh> and playing video games. But, but you talk about the difference between, you talk about the difference between fulfillment and just taking actions or the difference between Yeah. Like what is the difference between fulfillment and just taking everyday actions?

Jairek Robbins (19:22):

Sure. So I, I would say the difference between pleasure and fulfillment. Pleasure is something that feels good in the moment, but quickly goes away. something that’s joy-filled is, or, or something that is, I’m trying to think of the right word. So fulfilling would be the other word is it’s something that not only feels good now, but if you look back 10 years from the future, it still feels good to think about. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, give you an example. pleasurable might be someone going to a party and deciding to just make it a rager. They drink alcohol, they eat a whole bunch of junk food. They, they stay up way too late. They, they just trash their body. Now in the moment they might, it might feel good. They’re like, yeah, that was great. The next day it feels horrible, but a week later they’re like, Hey, I’m the fun one.

Jairek Robbins (20:18):

And then they, it feels good. It’s exciting. People laugh, but 12 years later when they look back they go, I don’t know if that was so smart. And the reason it doesn’t feel so smart is because they’re in their hospital and the kidney stopped working. Hmm. And they go, yeah, I don’t know if that was such a great idea. I mean, I was screaming Yolo at the time, but now that I’m in dialysis, spending four hours a day plugged into a machine to filter my kidney just to stay alive, I don’t know if that was the smartest thing in the world. Now the hard part is you only realize that when you’re in the situation. Cuz most people say, well, I’ll never land up like that. And you don’t think it will until you’re there. And then you go, wow, I should have maybe taken a little bit better care of myself.

Jairek Robbins (21:10):

And so some of these things we’re talking about, you just have to learn how to decipher between pleasure and fulfillment. And again, that’s saying, Hey, will this feel good right now? Yeah. Do I think this will be a great idea 25 years from now? probably not, but who cares? No, no, no, no. Probably not. You said, okay, good. So if it’s, if it’s okay now, but horrible, then why don’t we just find something else to do that’s great now and great then that’s not that hard. You’re creative, you’re smart, you’re, I mean, use your imagination. Come up with something that qualifies for it feels good now and it’s gonna feel great then.

Sam Demma (21:53):

I love that. That’s such a great, that’s such a great difference or a differentiation and something great to think about because I think a lot of young people, and I’m not just, and I’m also young <laugh>, but we fall into this trap and you know, one of the reasons is because the five people you spend the most time with might pressure you into doing certain things. Now at the end of the day, it’s always your choice, but people are always gonna push their opinions, thoughts, and beliefs onto you. and I’m curious to know how you personally have defended yourself in those situations. And one, one against the opinions of others, even when it was family. you know, in your book you talk about how you wanted to travel and, and volunteer right out of your schooling and even your family were against it. I, I’m in a similar situation. I took a fifth year and a gap year, and both times my parents were like, Sam, what the heck are you doing with your life? And I’m like, no. Like, I know what I’m doing. so my question is, how do you go against other people’s opinions when it’s people you love the most or your best buddies and friends?

Jairek Robbins (22:58):

Sure. so in the book we have a little acronym we use on how to, how to navigate this and what to do to fortify your mind and emotions. but, but let me give you some bonus on top of that just to think about where I would start is, ah, I just saw this quote the other, let me see if I can find it real

Sam Demma (23:20):

Quick. Yeah, go for it.

Jairek Robbins (23:21):

It was a beautiful quote and it had, it was spot on with this. It might have deleted.

Sam Demma (23:29):

Ah, that’s okay.

Jairek Robbins (23:36):

oh, it’s gone. it was a great quote. It was talking about, I’m trying to remember what it was. It was something along the lines of the magic of life is how quickly you can align with what your soul’s calling you to do. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I remember reading that and just thinking, wow, that’s so true. Can you, can you quiet the chatter? Can you quiet the noise? Can you quiet the opinions? And can you deeply listen to what you’re genuinely called to do? I think it was Jim Carey who said, depression is nothing more than your avatar, getting tired of wearing the mask. And I was like, oh, this guy says some cool stuff from time to time, <laugh>. And I was like, you know, when you see people who feel depressed, when you see people who have anxiety, when you see people who are are, are caught most of the time it’s because they’re spending so much effort and energy trying to be something they’re not.

Jairek Robbins (24:33):

And it’s just, they’re trying, they’re trying so hard to, to fit into something when that’s not their way of life. That’s not how they were made to be. Hmm. And so when I look at that, I always ask the question of the foundation of any human, which is kind of three buckets. And each bucket has a label and the label of bucket one would say, I am enough. And I always ask the question, like, for you, what does it mean to be enough? Have you ever sat down with a pen and paper and said, top of the paper, I am enough, dot, dot, dot. And then filled in the paper, what makes you enough in your own mind? Not what society says, but what, what do you think makes you enough? What has to happen for you to feel like you are enough? Just you just breathing.

Jairek Robbins (25:20):

Not a human doing, but a human being, just being you. What has to happen for you to feel like you’re enough Second bucket? I have enough. It is an interesting one for people. I’ve lived in places with no running water, no electricity, no toilets. It’s rural farmland. You take a bucket. I mean, you walk a quarter mile down the road, you fill a little jerry can of water, you drag this thing home like a strong man competition. You boil it for 30 minutes just to get a glass of drinking water when it finally cools. As long as a bug doesn’t land in it, cuz if it does, it could possibly kill you. So, and if a bug lands in it, you gotta boil it again and then you gotta wait another 30 minutes for it to cool. So I’ve lived in these places and I’ve lived like that for a significant period of time.

Jairek Robbins (26:07):

And I can tell you it doesn’t take a lot of stuff for people to have a beautiful life. But that’s not what we’re told. That’s not what we’re shown. That’s not how, what we’re fed over and over and over again. We’re, we’re shown that if we don’t get in line and wait for 17 hours to just get the new merch drop that, my goodness, we’re certainly not gonna have a good life. And it’s like, really? I mean, I met kids there who have literally one outfit, like this is their school outfit, their play outfit, their church outfit. This was the one outfit they own. And they were just glowing with joy and they enjoyed every heck moment of their life. And they were out talking with their friends and hanging out and doing cool stuff. And I was like, man, they don’t have anything telling them that the one outfit they wear every day is good or bad.

Jairek Robbins (27:06):

Therefore they literally don’t care <laugh> because they haven’t been taught to care about that. Now they watched me, I had a book with me and I was highlighting a few lines in the book that I thought were interesting and they went, oh, you can’t write in the book. I was like, it’s my book, why can’t I write in it? And they’re like, no. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that’s not allowed. And I was like, why? And I, I talked to some of the other kids and I asked them and they said, oh, because oftentimes we only have one of those books for the entire village. We have to share. Hmm. You, you can’t write in it because it ruins it for everybody else. I went, what a difference. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, what a difference that is. They value certain things that they’ve been taught to value, they value knowledge there. Where I’m sitting and watching people line up for 12 hours outside of a certain store in New York City to get a merch drop cuz they value a brick that says Supreme.

Jairek Robbins (28:07):

Think about that. Yeah. One group of kids is thrilled to get a new book. Another group of kids can’t wait to spend all their resources to get a brick that has a logo on it. <laugh>, now the brick is actually worth 30 cents or maybe 60 cents at Home Depot, but because they smack their logo on it, they’re gonna try to sell it to you for $300. And then some kid sits outside and feels like he finally has enough in life, or she finally has enough in life. I haven’t seen a lot of girls buy the brick. So I’m gonna say like he, he for some reason feels so fulfilled in life because he finally has enough, because he’s bought a brick with someone’s logo on it. Now I’m not mad at him. If that’s what finally feels like enough in life, that’s awesome. But for you, what does it take to have enough for these kids that I met when I was living in a village in Uganda?

Jairek Robbins (29:00):

It was just waking up with a breath in your body was more than enough. As a matter of fact, I met a young lady. I was, I don’t know if you’ve ever done this. You, you ever flipped through Instagram and like you, you see a girl that just catches your eye and you’re like, whoa, whoa. So I had that experience. I was flipping through and this young woman caught my eye and I was like, wow, holy Moses. And I’ll never, lemme see if I can find the picture real quick. I literally kept it cause it was so good. And I remember seeing this young lady and just being blown away at what was going on. And I was like, I have to know more about this human. So I did some research and I, I, I figured out who she was. I read her story, unbelievable story.

Jairek Robbins (29:51):

Hmm. And the more I learned about her, the more impressed I was. I was like, this is an unbelievable human. I need to talk to her. And so I reach out and I interviewed her, and then I also interviewed her husband. And I was like, I have to know more about this. And as I was interviewing her and her husband, they shared one of the most unbelievable stories I had ever heard. And I’ll, I’ll, I’ll tell you just a little snippet of it here the whole thing’s over on our podcast. But as I’m scrolling for this photo, I’ll, I’ll just share a little bit about what she shared. She was born with cystic fibrosis, which means after so long her lungs have a chance of literally just stopping, just stopping. Like one day she’s okay and can breathe. And the next day her lungs just stop.

Jairek Robbins (30:50):

Hmm. And that happened to her. She was rushed to the hospital and, and put on machines to be kept alive and, you know, waited and waited and waited. And at some point they found a match, or they call it a donor match. And they brought it in and they hooked, hooked her up to a machine. And, and literally they cut her open straight down the middle of her body, opened her up, cracked her ribs open, pulled out the lungs that were in there, put in a new set of lungs, sewed them in, put her back together and sewed her shut straight down the middle of her chest. Wow. And I paused right there and went, holy Moses, that is incredible. And that wasn’t it. Like she got done. And they said, okay, you know, hopefully these work, and if they do, you’re gonna live a great life.

Jairek Robbins (31:47):

 you know, you’re on your way. She left, met a, went out, lived a great life, met a guy, fell in love, got married. Fast forward. She, she told him, she’s like, Hey, just so you know, <laugh>, we fall in love. There’s a chance I might just cease to exist one day. Like my lungs just stop and I’m out. And he, he’s like, I love you. It doesn’t matter. We’ll do this together. So they got married and then one day she just had a seizure outta nowhere. And so she had a seizure. They rushed to the hospital, see what it was, and her lungs stopped working again second time. And they sat there, analyzed everything, reviewed everything, checked everything. And they came, the doctors came back and said, listen, here’s the deal. The likelihood that a second double lung transplant is gonna work is so low that it does not make sense for us to do this. It makes more sense for you to just go on hospice and slowly live out the rest of your days until you can live no longer and you die. Hmm.

Jairek Robbins (32:54):

PS our team can’t help you. And we’ve also notified the other hospitals nearby of what the situation is. And they said they can’t help either. And she went home crying and she told her husband, I didn’t fight this long to stay alive, just to give up now. So they wrote a hundred letters to a hundred hospitals asking for help. Can you help me? Four wrote back and said, we might be able to try. One of them accepted her in and said, come here, we’ll hook you up and help you. We’ll figure this out. Hmm. Good work, ucla. They brought her in, they took care of her, kept her alive on machines. One night, two in the morning, she gets a call. We found a match, meaning a donor. They bring her in, cut her straight, open down the middle again, the ribs, open her up, pull out the old lungs, put in the new lungs, sew everything together, close her back up, sew her shut, put her on machines to stay alive and see if it works.

Jairek Robbins (33:53):

The next morning, her husband said, I interviewed him. And he said, the next morning when my wife woke up, I saw the biggest smile I’ve ever seen on her face in our entire life. He said, I wish I could tell you that our wedding day, she had a bigger smile, but I would be lying if I said that I saw the biggest smile I’ve ever seen on my wife’s face. And he said she had this tube down her throat to, to breathe. So she couldn’t say anything, but she, she asked for a board and they were asking her questions, who are you? What day is it? What time is it? What year is it? And she scribbled something and had the biggest smile on her face. And as she turned the board around, it just said, I can breathe. And she said, the greatest feeling I’ve ever had in my entire life is the ability to take a breath on my own free will and fill my own lungs without needing assistance or machines to do so.

Jairek Robbins (34:50):

Greatest feeling in her entire life. I went, wow. Wow. And I, I, I can’t seem to find the picture, but the picture was the day after that surgery, she was sitting in a, in a wheelchair. She had the biggest smile I’ve ever seen on a person’s face. She had two thumbs up and she had her glasses on. Oh, here it’s, let me, let me throw this up on the screen so you could see it. It’s a little graphic if someone’s watching, but let me throw this up so you could see it. This was the picture that caught my attention. Wow. And I just saw her and thought, wow, what a great human. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And not only did she add stitches straight down the middle of her chest, but there was a tube coming straight outta the middle of her body. That tube was because after they did the double lung transplant, there was some type of hiccup and her heart started to fill with fluid. And so they had to do an open heart surgery to drain the fluid back out of her heart directly after the double lung transplant. And so her name is Kayla Haber. She’s a wonderful, wonderful, inspirational human. I highly recommend following her on Instagram and online. She has so much good news to share. Hmm. And the thing that stood out to me was circling back to the bucket that says, I have enough.

Jairek Robbins (36:32):

Realizing that if you can breathe on your own free will, you have more than enough to have a great life. And someone like Kayla’s fighting for the ability to breathe every single day. And she fights for something that so often we take for granted. And it’s just thinking about that. And it’s not saying, oh, my life is okay and I get it if I compare it to someone else. It’s not about comparison. It’s just the realization that if you can breathe on your own, you have everything it takes to have an unbelievably beautiful life.

Jairek Robbins (37:08):

Final part is, I’m loved enough so I am enough. I have enough. Final one is, I’m loved enough. This is an inside game. There’s not a person on this world that can make you love yourself and not love yourself in egotistical way, but truly appreciate who you are. You know, I always ask people, when’s the last time you turned your phone into selfie mode? And they always go, oh. And I’m like, no, no. Listen to the rest of it. <laugh>, when’s the last time you turned it in? Selfie mode. And the important part, look yourself straight in the eye. I’ve heard that the eyes or the windows of the soul. When’s the last time you looked yourself deep in the eyes, all the way deep into your own soul and told yourself three things you actually appreciated about yourself? When’s the last time you looked deep into your own soul through the window of your eyes and, and identified two things that you’re really proud of, of how you’ve shown up today? When’s the last time you’ve looked deep into your own soul through the window of your eyes and identified one thing that you really think you’re excited to go experience in life in the future?

Jairek Robbins (38:20):

For most people, the answer is, I’ve never done that. And how do you think you can pour love the people around you if you’ve never poured love into yourself? You can’t pour from an empty cup. You gotta fill your own cup every day. And I say, screw, screw a cup. Go for a bucket. Let’s go big

Sam Demma (38:41):

<laugh>. I love that

Jairek Robbins (38:43):

<laugh> fill, fill the bucket. Fill that bucket. And I think if you had a routine every day that talked about filling the three buckets, I am enough. I have enough. I’m loved enough. And if you were overflowing from first thing in the morning, my goodness. As you move throughout the day, imagine how you could pour into all the people around you. And what I’ve noticed is if you see peculiar behavior outta people, stuff that doesn’t seem healthy, doesn’t seem happy, doesn’t seem good. It’s usually because one of these three buckets has a hole in it and it it, there’s a deficit. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, they’re feeling like they’re not enough. They’re feeling like they’re not loved enough, or they’re feeling like they don’t have enough and therefore they’re behaving in a way to try to compensate for it. Because when someone feels like they are enough, they have enough, and they loved enough, all they want to do is help others and share it.

Sam Demma (39:31):

I love that. And

Jairek Robbins (39:34):

Wow,

Sam Demma (39:34):

So much. There’s just so much great nuggets, <laugh>, and not a whole story. and I hope that if you’re listening right now, you’re taking notes and writing this stuff down so you can ask yourself these same questions, whether it’s tonight in the mirror, tomorrow morning, when you wake up, depending on when you’re listening to this. Yeah. How do you, how do you find purpose? Something that a lot of young people always ask me is, Sam, I don’t know what my purpose in life is. And I don’t know that you find it. I think you create it. I think you explore. Sure. And I think you have a, a phenomenal story in Uganda with a man you came across who, who created his purpose. And it was one of the most beautiful things. And I’m, I’m hoping you can share the story about the leaves. Sure.

Jairek Robbins (40:14):

So when I was living in that village there, you know, my thought is, how often am I gonna be able to wake up in a village in the middle of Uganda? Like, I don’t know, at least the months I was there. But besides that, I’m not sure how many times I’d get the chance to do it. So I was like, Ooh, I’m gonna squeeze the juice out of this. And so one of the things I promised myself I would do is wake up every morning and watch the sunrise. I was like, that’d be so cool. And so I woke, I set my alarm, figured out the time. Every morning I wake up to watch the sunrise. And I started noticing there was this little old man that every morning would come out of the, the kind of village clinic or hospital that was nearby. And he would just do the same thing every freaking day.

Jairek Robbins (41:02):

And he would do it every day at sunrise on the dot. Never missed. I was like, this dude is wildly consistent. Like he must have a really good alarm clock or something like he doesn’t miss. And, and like every day he come out and get this long fetched broom and he’d kind of stretch his back a little, and then he’d step down the couple steps and he’d work his way from the steps of the clinic all the way down the path to the, to the main road. And he’d just, you know, step, step, sweep, sweep, step, step, sweep, sweep. He’d sweep this whole road. And then he’d get to the, get to the main road, turn around, step, step, sweep, sweep all the way back and clear the leaves off this path. And I remember the first day just being like, oh, cool. It’s a dude sweeping leaves. <laugh>,

Jairek Robbins (41:48):

You know, 10th day, like, man, he’s pretty consistent. 30th, 40th day. Like, this dude has not missed the whole time I’ve been here. This is crazy. But by like month three, I was like, I gotta talk to this guy. Like what in the world? How did he learn such discipline? Like this guy doesn’t miss. I’m like, this is amazing. It’s like Steph Curry with three points. Like this dude just drains him every day. How does he do that? And so we, we, I went and interviewed him. I, he didn’t speak English and I didn’t speak lu ganden, which was his language. So I found an interpreter, a friend of mine who was like, Hey, can you translate? She’s like, sure. So he went over and I asked him, you know, why do you do what you do? And he was, he looked at me and he kind of shrugged and she said something and he kind like tilted his head.

Jairek Robbins (42:34):

And he is like, cuz I’m supposed to is what she said. And I was like, no man. Like, why do you do what you do? Like why? What’s the purpose? What’s the reason? What’s, and she’s like, she looked at me, she’s like, I speak English stupid. Give me a second. Like, I know what you’re saying. Let me ask him in a different way. Now, I don’t know if you’ve ever done that. You’re traveling in a place that, that isn’t English isn’t the main language and, and you just, you know, say it over and over again. Think you’re just finally gonna land. It’s like they have no clue what you’re saying. <laugh> try a different word. So I was like, no, why? And she’s like, shut up stupid, gimme a second. So she turned around when and talked to him again and said something different. And then she was talking to him.

Jairek Robbins (43:14):

All of a sudden this guy turned around and got like the biggest smile on his face that I’ve ever seen. And I, I was looking at this guy, I’m like, yeah, yeah, ta ta. She’s like, okay, hold on. And I was like, what did he say? And she said, wow, that was cool. Like that was beautiful. And I was like, no, no. What did he say? And she says, you know, he said, the reason I sweeped the leaves is I, because I believe every human being, whether it a small baby about to enter this world or a sicker elderly person about to leave this world, I believe they deserve a clear path to do so. And I remember thinking, wow, wow man, this guy found so much purpose in sweeping a dirt path every day. Hmm. Just clearing leaves off the path. And like you said, there’s millions of young people all over the world who can’t figure out what their purpose is, who can’t figure out why they’re here, who can’t figure out what they’re supposed to be doing.

Jairek Robbins (44:21):

What if it’s as simple as finding deep joy and purpose in just living your life every day. Now we live in a society that says, that’s it, that’s all my purpose is. But this guy found immense joy, unbelievable fulfillment in living life every day. And I watch people who own a brick with a label on it. <laugh> not happy. Yeah. And not fulfilled. That guy didn’t own anything like that. He lived in a broom closet. The most proud thing he owned was the fact that in his broom closet there was an electricity panel hooked to a hooked up to the one wire in the whole town that had electricity so he could charge a cell phone. He, he was so proud of that. The only other thing he had was a hat collection, which included three hats. So I gifted him my hat before I left and he thought it was cool. He had four hats by the time I left. That’s it. That was his whole life collection right there. And he was so proud of it.

Jairek Robbins (45:31):

And people like to say like, oh, finding joy in the little things. I was like, I don’t think that’s little. Finding your purpose in life is a big deal. And if this gentleman was able to find so much joy and so much purpose in something so simple, I think that’s unbelievably beautiful. And I think to challenge more of us to say, Hey, can you find your purpose in something so simple yet profound of your daily life? Can you find purpose in loving on the people you care about? Can you find purpose in doing simple chores throughout the day? Can you find purpose in meaning in supporting your family and community? Can you find purpose in meaning in, in doing something that brings you joy in sharing that joy with others? Hmm. It doesn’t have to be complicated, but we live in a society that’s been built to generate revenue from us.

Jairek Robbins (46:31):

I remember I was in Ecuador and I, I was on a tour and I looked up and I saw a billboard and I went, huh, that’s interesting. And I asked the lady who’s guiding the tourist, I said, Hey, is the lady on the billboard? Is she from here? And he, she was like, I don’t know n n not like from this city, but like, is she Ecuadorian? Like is she from Ecuador? And she looked there and she’s like, no, no, she’s not from here. And I was like, where is she from? And she’s like, maybe Mexico. Maybe Brazil. But like, she’s not from Ecuador, we don’t look like that. I went, that’s interesting. I wonder why they’d use a person not from there to advertise what beauty looks like. And then I started walking around in the US cities and looking at billboards and watching TV commercials and realizing that in the United States we use models, quote unquote is what they call ’em from Europe, central and South America. We use models from other parts of the world to show young people what beauty looks like.

Jairek Robbins (47:38):

And then I went to Europe and realized they used models from America to show people what beauty look like. Then I went to Asia and when you’re in one part of Asia, they use models from other parts of Asia. And I’m like, why would they keep doing this? And I realized, cuz when I asked the lady from Ecuador, why would they use a model that’s not from here to represent beauty? And then it clicked. I said, how do you know she’s not from here? And he says, she said, cuz our bone structure doesn’t look like that. Our cheeks don’t look like that. Our jaw line doesn’t look like that. The shape of our face doesn’t look like that. And I said, then why would they use that as the epitome of beauty, the aspiration of beauty, the thing you have to try to become. And it clicked. And I realized, because no matter how many times you buy their product and put it on, you’ll never get there, but you’ll feel a little bit closer. And I was like, no wonder people don’t feel like they’re enough. Hmm. An industry makes billions of dollars telling you you’re not enough. And if you just buy a little more of their crap, eventually you might be a little closer than you were. Wow.

Sam Demma (48:51):

It’s wow. <laugh>, I’m speechless. Like, there’s, there’s so many examples I could think of when you talked about that even in, you know, friend groups that I have and, and people that are my age and my life.

Jairek Robbins (49:06):

What

Sam Demma (49:06):

Our crazy realization, thank you for sharing that story and, and all the stories you shared were, we’re almost outta time here, <laugh> and I, I that I had a ton of questions that we didn’t even get a chance to touch upon but this is a beautiful conversation and I’m, I’m curious to know where can people reach out to you? Where can people learn more about you? Where can they buy your book? I just read it, live it. It’s a phenomenal book. And it’s not only a book you read, it’s, it’s a, it’s an exercise, it’s a workshop. If you follow along with the steps and, and you actually do them as you read, it’s a phenomenal exercise. Where can they find your book? Where can they connect with you? Where can they learn more about you and maybe even work with you if they wanted to?

Jairek Robbins (49:45):

Sure. Our books on Amazon, easiest place to find it. It’s worldwide. If you want to check out one of our programs, if you want to go through a program to help be happy, healthy, strong, fulfilled, stuff like that, you can go to Udemy I think the code is highperformancekw.com and it’ll, it’s like $129 program. I’ll give it to you for like 10 bucks or 12 bucks on Udemy. We have students, 5000 plus students in 119 countries around the world actively in that program right now. So it’s a great program. People love it. They’re people all over the world are, are just raving about it and really enjoying it. And then if you want to just connect and, and stay in touch, I mean find me on Instagram. I’m weary to use social media as a connection point just ’cause I know there, there the, again, the algorithm is built to keep you on there, not necessarily to make you healthy. So yeah, you can find me on there, and, and we just try to push out good thoughts every single day to support people in, in being happy, healthy, strong, and fulfilled.

Sam Demma (50:50):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jairek Robbins

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Karl Fernandes – Teacher, Coach, Writer, Guest Speaker and Life Long Learner

Karl Fernandes – Teacher, Coach, Writer, Guest Speaker and Life Long Learner
About Karl Fernandes

Teacher, coach, writer, guest speaker, life long learner: Karl Fernandes wears many hats as an educator. Blessed beyond measure in his career, Karl has taught in each academic division for the Toronto Catholic District School Board. Karl believes strongly in experiential learning and has an extensive history of engaging his students in local and international service projects. He is actively involved in mental health and natural health initiatives and has worked with numerous organizations to develop well-being resources for students and teachers.

Karl has also instructed at the post-secondary level, and currently serves as a course instructor and professional development facilitator at the provincial level for the Ontario English Catholic Teachers’ Association. He has presented to OCTs and teacher candidates at conferences and workshops across Ontario.

Connect with Karl: Email | LinkedIn

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Toronto Catholic District School Board

Ontario English Catholic Teachers’ Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Karl Fernandeas. Karl is a teacher, coach, writer, guest speaker, and lifelong learner. He wears many hats as an educator. Blessed beyond measure in his career, Karl has taught in each academic division for the Toronto Catholic District School Board. Karl believes strongly in experiential learning and has an extensive history of engaging his students in local and international service projects. He’s actively involved in mental health and natural health initiatives, and has worked with numerous organizations to develop wellbeing resources for students and teachers. I’m so grateful that a past guest that we had on the show, John Laenaris, introduced me to Karl. Karl has also instructed at the post-secondary level and currently serves as a course instructor and professional development facilitator at the provincial level for the Ontario English Catholic Teachers’ Association.

Karl Fernandeas (01:02):

He has presented to OCTs and teacher candidates at conferences and workshops across Ontario. I hope you enjoy this insightful conversation with my friend Karl, and I will see you on the other side. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today, we have a very special guest. We connected a few times before this podcast, and I’m so excited to finally have him on the show. Karl Fernandez. Karl, please start by introducing yourself so everyone listening knows a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do.

Karl Fernandeas  (01:39):

Thanks, Sam. It’s my pleasure to be here with you this afternoon and to share a bit of my background. I guess I describe myself as both an educator and a lifelong learner. I am a teacher with Toronto Catholic, and I’ve taught in different communities in the city for years. All the grades, like from the little ones right up through high school, and I’ve also had the opportunity in recent years to teach post-secondary and to work with teacher candidates, and now I also work with the, at the provincial level level with the Catholic Teachers Association. And I’m doing a lot with teacher training there. It’s just a terrific way to continue my own learning. Like I said, lifelong learning is, it’s, it’s real.

Sam Demma (02:19):

Where did this passion for lifelong learning develop or stem from?

Karl Fernandeas (02:25):

<laugh>? You know what? I think it, it, it comes just from realization that you, there’s so much you don’t know. Hmm. And, you know, your mistakes inform you. So you, it’s tough because, you know, it’s your pride sometimes, but then you have to recognize well about all the things you maybe didn’t think of or didn’t know. And so it’s, it’s something you learn along as you go along the way. It’s really about the questions you asked, right? That’s what leads to better understanding and better thinking. So that’s something that comes from your work with students. But I think it also comes from just being intentional about how you live your life and how you have your interactions and your experiences. And if you allow yourself some space to be still and not to feel like it’s always about, like you have to look ahead, but sometimes you need to look back.

Karl Fernandeas (03:18):

You need to be right here, and then you get a better perception and perspective on things. So I think that’s something life’s taught me a bit. And I don’t think you start off recognizing your lifelong learner, but it’s just that we’re all on this journey, you know, to try and make meaning of this time we have. And I think that’s where I started recognizing. I, I went back to grad school years after I’d got my teaching certification and all that. And I was, I was probably the most excited person in, in the rooms at times because I knew I was doing it because I just wanted to continue my education. It wasn’t about I need this to get that. And I did meet some people that were doing that and, and that’s fine. But I felt that for me it was more about, let me take this at this stage of my life.

Karl Fernandeas (04:05):

And I didn’t wanna be thinking, oh I could have done it. I just decided not to. I, I knew it mattered to me. So I had a great support network. And in the end, I think it kind of reinforced at that stage in my life, a lot of things that you know, I was intuitively leading towards, you know, the idea of how knowledge is. It’s a reward in and of itself, right? To, to work through a problem, to think about different perspectives, to gain a better understanding, to hear someone else’s point of view. All those things are part of just being willing to learn. And hey, you know, we learn things when we get in the kitchen. We learn things, you know, in so many different aspects of our lives that I think it’s there for everybody. Just, you know, and when you see other people that are inspired to go back and learn something or take a course on the side, you celebrate that. Cuz I just think it’s, it’s such a pathway to their thinking and, and maybe something that becomes a passion project or whatever. Right. So yeah, I see it as natural

Sam Demma (05:02):

Stillness is something that’s very familiar to you. You’ve written about it in a few online teacher articles and magazines. You mean it both in a physical sense of sitting down and not moving, but also in a, I guess a metaphorical sense of not living in the future, but living here and now. but let’s talk about it from a physical standpoint. I know that being still and meditating or finding that pause is something that you practice often. Why do you do that? And do you advise other educators to explore trying that themselves?

Karl Fernandeas (05:39):

Yeah, it, it’s something where you have to keep putting yourself in a position, you know, to, to learn and grow and to help your students do the same, right? So even pre pandemic this is something that, you know, the whole idea of mindfulness and meditation, we have to resist this thing that it’s the flavor of the day. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> as if it’s kind of like a trend or like a new way, right? Because it’s actually ancient in, its in, its in its wisdom and in its methods. So we, we need to sort of put that aside cuz that’s one of my, my cautions right now. I do a lot of real work in this area. And this has happened organically and authentically as someone that, you know, you have to be thinking about how you’re managing you know, your sense of wellbeing.

Karl Fernandeas (06:28):

If you’re gonna lead others, you know, you’re gonna lead your students. And, you know, equally important, you have to think about your students and recognize that if they’re not feeling well, if they’re not feeling good the math lesson doesn’t matter, right? So what can you do? Right? Of course, you wanna be a present and a welcoming figure, and you wanna create a classroom that’s inclusive and dynamic. And, and those things are things that we take pride in, right? And you build through the year, but then you have these other, you know, I don’t wanna, like, it’s sometimes we use an analogy of a toolbox, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, and you pull things out and you know, you know what to use and all that. And I actually did a pilot, I was involved with a pilot project some years ago that involved bringing wellbeing practices to students.

Karl Fernandeas (07:11):

And you know, through that I had a chance, I had already was committed to a lot of these practices, including the idea of meditating. But to be able to have my, you know, guide my students through these and learn some new things because the people leading it were really top rates. So it gives you a chance just to expand again, to expand your learning. But I saw firsthand, you know, I mean, we, I, if you’ve created an environment that’s safe and welcoming, it’s amazing where students will, you know, where like, they’ll, they’ll come along, you know? So they were, I, I had a, a beautiful group of grade eights that year. A lot of ’em, huge kids, you know, athletes, scholars, the whole, the whole nine. But they didn’t hesitate, you know, if I said, look at, this is what I like to try.

Karl Fernandeas (07:54):

They, you know, they already, you had gained their trust and they, they, they also understood that you were putting them in a place where they had an opportunity to try something that could benefit them. It wasn’t something that would, was meant to make them feel self-conscious or, you know, put in a spot. So I, I witnessed it firsthand that they were willing to, to try these things. We did, you know, some of the elements of of breathing exercises and, and physical exercises that are connected to yoga that just would help them with their the relaxation and it, you know, then they’d write about it a bit and how they felt about it. So then you get that sense, and then you do other things, you know, that help them build a sense of community and their appreciation for each other in life.

Karl Fernandeas (08:37):

You do things like gratitude circles and it just, you know, builds. And so what was fascinating is from there you know, we, we changed grades and assignments as the years unfold. And I was in with a younger group of students who maybe were a bit more challenged by issues around self-regulation. And this was just pre pandemic. So we started on this journey too, in the fall. And at the beginning, I know for some of ’em, it was really challenging because, you know, I would try to create the right environment, you know, dim the lights, close the door and all that. But then, you know, meditation really teaches you, it’s just like life. Like it’s, you can’t write it up the way you want it to be an expected to happen. So I’d leave the door open a couple times. Someone would walk in already talking to me before they actually saw what was going on.

Karl Fernandeas (09:21):

And I just like, you know what, we’re present in this moment, so we’re just gonna stay with this. And it was something where I’ll catch up with that person later. But the priority right now is, you know, we’re gonna continue our breathing. And, you know, the thing I loved about ASAM is that was unfortunately the year where we had to transition to online learning. Mm-hmm. And these these habits that we had developed in person, we extended to our online sessions. And so we would have it as part of our, you know, I would always be throwing new things into the mix to keep the kids feeling connected and that, you know, that, that this matters. And that was one of the things we did. And it absolutely was a, a joyful thing. And I mean, it, it, it, the science is all there, but I can also speak to it from like, from the heart, from an emotional level, just to see your students to look up and see that they’re completely engaged in this.

Karl Fernandeas (10:13):

At the beginning you got the kids that are eyes open looking around, you know, <laugh> wanting to see if any of their friends are maybe looking around too. But, you know, little by little they kind of come to it. And it’s not for you to, to judge or to scold or whatever it is. You just keep the in imitation open. And it’s tough because our minds are just used to overprocessing and racing and, and jumping around and all that. So, you know, wanna go back to your original thought stillness, right? It just, it, it, it allows you to be just a little more aware and when you’re done. ‘Cause the kids at the beginning thought maybe they’d get sleepy. And I said, it’s the opposite that happens, right? Like, you can talk to ’em a bit about the science of your alpha waves and just help them understand a bit that this actually benefits you. You become more alert and more present. So I, I would en I would encourage it. I, I would think, you know, you need to sort of find out a bit, especially if it’s not something you’ve done yourself. And you can always, there’s so many great resources online and apps and really legitimate websites, platforms that are developed by people that are in this field, so that if you wanna get started, there’s always a, a pathway for you.

Sam Demma (11:19):

It’s such a cool thing to hear about that you’re doing in a classroom with students. I’ve benefited greatly from meditation, from silence, from nature. And I think it’s just awesome to hear that you’re creating those spaces with young students. I didn’t stumble into that when I was in high school. I stumbled into it listening to podcasts, and I would’ve loved to have a teacher introduce me to those things at a younger age. You mentioned you create these safe spaces, and I’m curious to know, how do you think an educator creates a safe space? Like, how do you create a space where students feel like they can be themselves, feel like it’s okay to fail?

Karl Fernandeas (12:01):

Yeah, that’s important, isn’t it? Because if you don’t make it clear that we’re inherently gonna make our mistakes and we’re not always gonna have the result we want mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you’re creating a climate that isn’t really welcoming and isn’t really gonna, you know, reach the students. So I think, you know, it starts with just that idea that, you know, when you’re in education, you generally are guided by compassion and a and, and an interest in your students. And, and that comes out in many ways. Sometimes it’s just the being that stable, welcoming presence for them, because they may not have enough of that in their lives. And sometimes it’s just the, you know, the little conversations you can have if it’s in line or, you know, as you’re going out, extracurriculars, field trips, all that. I think what you’re trying to tell the student is that as much as their their homework, it sure it matters.

Karl Fernandeas (12:54):

And, you know, all these other things matter. It’s the person that matters the most. And kids have this innate ability to sense when they’re in the presence of someone that welcomes them and will, you know, kind of encourage them. So if, if, if you’re just worried about the rule or the, the way it’s done, you could lose sight of the bigger picture. Whereas here’s someone who’s not that different from us, right? Who’s maybe messed it up a bit today or maybe forgot the thing they should have brought. And maybe, yeah, it is the third time, and that could be trying, but if the child understands that what you’re trying to address is the the actual action of the behavior, not the person, you know, there’s the real opportunity for them to, to reflect and, and children of all ages, like they, they, they, they can come to this place, right?

Karl Fernandeas (13:46):

One of the fascinating things that you often, that, that I find I, I enjoy doing with students is when it comes to evaluating a piece of work ask them to evaluate themselves, including with the grade, it’s amazing how hard they’ll be on themselves. Mm-hmm. Right Now you get the occasional kid that’s gonna give themselves the flying a plus <laugh>, but, and you know, that’s all good. But you know, when you, when you’re, when you ask them a little further, they’ll, they’ll come down from that too. But so many, I mean, that’s our human nature, right? And I think there are all these studies out there that talk about how many negative comments we tend to absorb in the course of a day. And even the talk we do with ourselves tends to be a little bit more critical. And so I think as a teacher, you’ve gotta check that sometimes, you know, and you’ve gotta remind yourself that, you know, you can put a lot of positive energy.

Karl Fernandeas (14:32):

You don’t have to be like singing songs and clapping hands and all that to show that you’re happy, right? Yeah. Sometimes it’s this calm and peaceful environment you create. I mean, gosh, remember with my younger students years ago, I’d played classical music while we were working, and that was one of those years of the E Q AO tests where, you know, scores were like such a big concern and the province and all that. And you know, when your students are asking, can they have, can they listen to Mozart while they’re doing their math work or whatever, I mean, something’s happened, right? And it’s not always classical, but it’s just the fact that we can go there. And so you can just create these little dynamics and you also instill trust, right? So for me, like there are a lot of policies without getting too much into teacher speak, you know, the idea of needing to use the bathroom or get a drink.

Karl Fernandeas (15:15):

Like that’s, to me, that’s, it’s automatic, but the only condition I place on that is you’re not going for walks around the school, right? Like, there are things you can do in the classroom if you need to get up, and you have to know when you’re, you know, you need to leave. But if I’m if I’m teaching a split grade, let’s say, and I’m teaching the other side, my students that are currently in independent work, they understand like they’re allowed to get up and go, but it’s a trust thing. If even once I find they’re roaming around or they’re, you know, there’s something that’s, you know, a bit of a disappointing choice they’ve made, they have to answer for it. So, you know, I think when you put all these things in place, it’s for everybody. It’s not just for the student that’s easy to trust.

Karl Fernandeas (15:53):

Hmm. Right? It has to be for an invitation for all of them to reach a standard. And I think putting expectations forward, I, I’ve, I’ve talked to people over the years to try and understand this better, and I, I really feel it’s true because sometimes you have a group where you recognize they’re struggling, you know, maybe they’re struggling with expectations or with their academics or whatever. And the question is, well, do you lower the standard and just, you know, make sure everyone can jump right over the fence and get these high grades that may be inflated or whatever. Or are there other ways that you need to think about this? How do we, how kind of scaffold it so that they can, you know, see progress and start reaching. And I tend to prefer that. So I think when students are in a room where they understand their expectations, but there’s also, you know, acceptance and forgiveness and understanding all these things that kind of come part of saying, Hey, we’re all human. So I like that you mentioned failure, because if we’re afraid of it, there’s all this stuff about fear failure. And I think you’ve worked in that space as well about encouraging people to overcome that. It, it, it’s important because then we shift our mindset. There’s a whole thinking around the growth mindset, and that can only come if we see these things that don’t work out as opportunities as opposed to complete failures. Right.

Sam Demma (17:05):

I, I couldn’t agree more. I love that you mentioned this idea that you’re not addressing the person you’re addressing the action or the behavior. And that was a big thing for me as a student because I attached my self worth to my success as an athlete. And I thought subconsciously, if Sam wasn’t seen as a great soccer player, he’d be worth nothing as a person. Whereas in reality, soccer was just a game I chose to play outside of Sam Demma human being. and when I was able to identify that it was a lot easier to overcome the challenges, the mental barriers that I had to moving on and starting something new and continuing to build my life mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I feel like you kind of addressing students by saying, you chose to make this choice. that doesn’t, that’s not necessarily a great reflection of you as a human being. It’s just a choice you made. I’m not addressing you. I’m addressing the choice. Let’s talk about the choice together, not you as a person. I think that’s a great way to have difficult conversations and it’s a lot more disarming. so yeah, I thought that was really, that was really great distinction and I appreciate you making it. Did you know when you were a student walking the hallways of the schools you attended that you wanted to work in education as a teacher?

Karl Fernandeas (18:22):

<laugh>? Absolutely not. No <laugh>, I didn’t see it. I, I, I knew, I guess there were probably, it’s, it’s, you know, life is such a mystery, right? Like, where we go and the people we come across and all the things that we’re gonna do, it’s, it’s, you gotta love that, that it’s so unscripted. But I know some people say that they, they figured it out. They knew from time. And I, I just wasn’t in that camp. I, I think the things that probably I could occlude into us, I, I enjoyed presenting and I was pretty good at explaining things to my classmates. if, you know, we were working out certain problems, not in all subjects and not in everything, but, you know, oftentimes I could, could lend a bit that way. And I did get a chance to work with youth a co I took, you know, I was always, you know, on the move picking up a job wherever I could, you know, growing up just to sort of, you know, take care of things and, you know, self put myself through university, the whole nine.

Karl Fernandeas (19:14):

So I had to I just, and I also wanted to try everything, you know, I thought, hey, life is about this. It’s not just, you know, one thin line to walk. So I did get a chance to work with students a couple times, including at a sports camp actually. And you know, that was an absolute blast. You know, I just found how much I loved being in that space and you know, all the things that come with it. Cuz when you’re with them all day, it’s a little bit like school, right? Except it’s all about sports, <laugh>, this whole, whole whole you have to learn a lot about your, I mean, know we, we refer to as classroom management, but people misunderstand that thinking. It’s about like managing kids and rules and expectations and it’s really about creating environment, you know?

Karl Fernandeas (19:54):

So anyways, I think those things helped inform me, but really and truly, I didn’t sort of listen to that voice properly until I was into my university years. And it wasn’t a sort of a fallback or something. It was literally like, well, which path am I gonna take now? I was really interested in international relations and I had done some you know, like a number of studies and things and I was feeling strongly drawn to that, you know, cause I had an interest in politics and, and, and global issues environment. And so I felt that there was something there that was really calling me. And then there was this thing about, boy, you get to do so many amazing things in, in school and I wasn’t the model that you’d expect to become the teacher, you know? So it was something I had to reflect on a bit.

Karl Fernandeas (20:43):

But I realized that, you know, there were certain things that were aligning for me that suggested, you know, even when I’d be in university and I was presenting or I was doing other things, I thought there that space is, is, is fascinating, so I should stay open to it. And then I kind of was, I I I was doing the two degrees concurrently, so I was pursuing my international relations and I was pursuing my work through teachers college. And I think if I was gonna be quite honest with myself, my international relations work was, was really lighting up. I was loving it. And I felt like, you know, my mind was alive and sometimes in, in, in teachers programs, I was a little bit more, you know, we’d be having debates about phonics and I wasn’t particularly excited <laugh> about stuff like that sometimes.

Karl Fernandeas (21:27):

So I wondered, you know, even as I was going through it, I didn’t know where I was gonna land. But I kind of ended up lending both because I did some international development projects as a volunteer. And that took me into countries in the developing world where I really got to, you know, do the work and meet people and see things and, and, and reflect on them. And what it’s done is it’s kind of informed my practice because one of the things that I am, I’m homely proud of as an educator is that I’ve connected my students to service projects throughout the years mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And, you know, it, it is a bit of a leap. You don’t, it’s not a scripted thing. You figure out, okay, what are we gonna do about this situation? Or how can we get involved? And, and then you have to just have the courage to say, well, may not be perfect, but let’s, let’s put this together.

Karl Fernandeas (22:11):

And, you know, so I think in a way, now that I look back at it, all the pieces were there for me. I just didn’t know, you know, what the puzzle was supposed to look like. And in a, in a unique way, I’ve kind of blended these different parts of who I am. So environmental work and international work and, and, and social justice work have all kind of combined. And of course I love the material I get to teach, but you know, your, your, your teaching extends so far beyond the lesson, right? And ideally you’re connecting students to the world in whatever form, and you take kids outside and they just, they just, they’re overjoyed. It’s like, wow, we get to go and do something. Right? So you don’t want to just think of it as a static, you gotta check off. Cuz that’s the thing. There’s this weight, you know, you gotta check off all these objectives and lessons and there’s so much more than that. So I guess that’s a wandering answer, but I guess that’s kind of reflective of my path in education. I don’t think it was something I, I recognized until it just aligned and I realized, yeah, this is, this is right for me.

Sam Demma (23:15):

I’ve had a diverse representation of answers when it came to this question. Some being, I used to play school with my, with my family members growing up and acted like I was the teacher to, I totally just fell into it randomly to, I like an answer like you shared. I liked certain aspects of education like presenting and realized I was passionate about it and, you know, during my university degree got into it. So I think it’s cool to hear that everyone has a very different journey to education because someone might feel overwhelmed or like they missed the boat if they’re a little bit later in their education and have started pursuing something differently. So thank you for sharing that. Your path was a little bit different. Steve Jobs always says you can’t connect. Well, he did say you can’t connect the dots looking forwards. You can only connect them looking backwards. So you have to trust that at some point in your future, the dots will connect. And it’s a part of his commencement speech and it gives me the goosebumps whenever I’m really discerning a tough decision. And I try and remind myself that, ah, this seems very challenging right now, but I’m sure a year from now looking back, it will all make sense even if I can’t make sense of it in the moment. And that kind of sounds like your journey to getting into education <laugh>. So

Karl Fernandeas (24:33):

Yeah. Yeah,

Sam Demma (24:34):

Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you sharing that. At what point in your educational journey did you start presenting to other teachers and educators? it sounds like you always had a passion for presenting.

Karl Fernandeas (24:47):

I think it’s more I was, you know, willing to step forward. I think that’s part of where you, you try to lead in whatever way you can. Cuz in the end, you know, in a school, you’re part of a community and you, you want to contribute in a meaningful way. And it’s tricky because, you know, it’s, it’s one of the tensions that sometimes can exist in schools where you can feel that things are being pulled in all kind of different directions. And so my initiative isn’t more important than another initiative, but perhaps, you know, it’s been in place, it’s been formed and it’s ready to be rolled out and then along comes something else. And sometimes you have to just, you know, move with it. So I say that because I guess sometimes it’s just you’re, you’re asked to do it.

Karl Fernandeas (25:34):

I remember years ago, I have to think about this really, but I, I think in one of my first couple years of teaching I was asked to, it was more like, oh, just, I was the new guy, right? So I was like a year or two in, and we, we were at some kind of event and I think I was supposed to either do the welcome or the thank you to somebody and I was just, it was literally like, Hey, can you do this in two minutes, <laugh>? Yeah. So I thought, sure, you know, but it wasn’t exactly something that I knew. It was more like, well, we need someone to do it, let’s ask you kind of thing. And, which was fine. I but I was also, you know, asked by people that were friendly enough that I thought, sure, if I can help out I will.

Karl Fernandeas (26:13):

But I remember after that some people came after me and says like, wow, do you do that stuff all the time? Like, no, I just did that cuz you asked me to. But I think, you know, ultimately what it is Sam, is that if you, if, if you’re trying to be purposeful, and I, I think thoughtful about things and that doesn’t mean you’re, it’s rehearsed and you’ve got it all right. But just you think about it, I think that just lends for more opportunities. But the rest of this is unfolded over time. Like sometimes it was school events where, you know, we’d put on, we’d put on some amazing presentations for parents, you know, where the students were, obviously the, the, the, the focus Nice. But you’d need to have it stitched together. And sometimes it was coming together, so, you know, last minute and like with different pieces, like, I’d be working, I, I also work with music in the school, so with one, some of my partners are like, okay, so which one we’re doing next?

Karl Fernandeas (27:06):

And all that stuff. And then it would just, you know, I would, I would always wanna give students the mic wherever it’s possible, but where the, where situations are unfolding and it’s not maybe you know, like people can rehearse. That’s possible. Yeah. Yeah. And then, you know, sometimes it’s just like, Hey, this is just live to, so you’ve gotta be ready. Yeah, I’ll take it at those stages. And you know, when you have graduation ceremonies and stuff, one of the things that I felt was so important was to address the grads as a teacher and just thank them and wish them the best. And you try to do it in a poignant, meaningful way because, you know, not all of them gonna get called up for these awards and things like that. And I always think about those other kids that, you know, this is a big piece of their life, you know, this is the foundational piece, and they need to know that they mattered and this whole journey mattered.

Karl Fernandeas (27:47):

And it’s not about, well, you know, who got the whatever award. So I kind of, I guess more and more would step forward in those lights. And then as you unfold in your career, you think again about what matters and where you can contribute. And part of that’s also finding the things that you are passionate about and that you know, where you can authentically discuss. Because if it’s something that, like, I, I can, I, I really enjoy teaching math and language and all that, but I, I don’t think I could get really jazzed up to do a presentation on some of that. I can help, you know, and, and, and learn with others and all that. That’s all good. But if I get to talk about, you know, mental wellbeing, if I get to talk about the environment or social justice or classroom management, I’m all in.

Karl Fernandeas (28:32):

You know. So I think when I, when I went back to grad school, that kind of unfolded a series of interesting pathways where it went from being in class to, you know, I met someone who worked in I think it was the international education department there. And then I got a call from students asking, could I present at a conference? And then I said, sure. And so I did that. This is for university students. And then from there I was asked to teach a, a certificate course. And then, you know, it just one thing, I guess in the end, you get an opportunity and then it’s what do you do with that opportunity? And, you know, in, in recent years, I’ve been really enjoying my work with the Ontario English Catholic Teachers Association. You know, it’s the provincial level for Catholic teachers in the pro in, in Ontario.

Karl Fernandeas (29:13):

I see. And the, the professional development work they do is just fantastic. So, you know, when I came into this some years ago, you just apply and you know, at the beginning you’re in with a lot of really well established people. And so I was just like, I was, again, the new kid, so to speak, but I’m just happy to, you know, learn from others and talk. And then eventually you get tapped and I, I did a presentation and that led to something else. And then I think about within a year, I’m delivering the keynote at a, a conference for educators in Eastern Ontario. And I thought I was doing a workshop when I put my <laugh>, my, my work forward. And they said, no, it’s a keynote. And I was like, okay. And then I thought, well, that’s, that’s fine then, you know, I mean, I believe in what I was gonna talk about, and it was about a teacher’s journey and how we have to think about, you know, how we restore ourselves and how that in turn helps us to create these climates for our students.

Karl Fernandeas (30:02):

So I believed in what I was gonna talk about, but they did select it. And then from there, I guess it’s, it’s rolled on. So I, I’m, I’m very, very grateful that I’ve had these opportunities, but I also take each one as, you know, extremely important that it matters. And I, I value the time of my audiences. And oftentimes it’s the conversations you have after the session’s done where you feel so good because you’ve reached someone and they come up specifically to tell you that, or they want to talk more about your ideas. And I’m sure you’ve had plenty of those moments, cuz I know how inspiring your talks are, but this is what we try to do. It’s just about taking what we know and then maybe passing it forward or helping people move along. And then we reflect too. So no two presentations are the same mm-hmm. <affirmative>

Karl Fernandeas (30:44):

And each group, I’ve, I’ve spoken to teacher candidates, I’ve spoken to teacher groups, you know where they may be getting a PD session and I’ve done an online in person, it just, you know, you just, you just adapt to whatever the environment is and just try and figure out how can I contribute something here that’s, that’s meaningful. And what can you say, you feel so fortunate when you hear the feedback afterwards that people have benefited in some way. Right? But you don’t rest on that. You know probably, I suspect you have this too, as a presenter, you’re never satisfied. You keep thinking, oh, you know what, here’s a little something I wanna try and do a little differently for the next one. Or, this audience is a little different. I always wanna know a bit about my audience. I don’t wanna take anything for granted.

Karl Fernandeas (31:24):

So I’ll be doing a presentation this week to some teacher candidates, and I wanted to know a bit more. And it turns out they’re graduate students, so that means that they’ve had a little bit more time with their program, and perhaps they’re coming at this from different lenses. They wanna look at things at. So that’s important to me to consider when I do the presentation. So, you know, I think it’s opportunities they come and I think it’s just that slow patient work where you put yourself in a situation, but I was never the one to sort of say like, like it’s, it’s, how do I say? Like, I need to get to the front of the line. I think I’d rather be tapped on merit than sort of try too hard to say, you know, me. And now I think I feel, you know, that I, I have a, a lot that I can contribute. And so if I am asked, I, I like to say yes. And so I think that’s a lot about life too. You know, just try and say yes and then invite the opportunities to come.

Sam Demma (32:19):

That’s awesome. You mentioned teacher coming up to you afterwards and how they often tell you how it made them feel and they wanna talk about your ideas further or how it connected with them. And it made me think about success because oftentimes we, well, in the presentation world, you feel like your presentation was a success. When someone walks up to you and says, oh my goodness, Carl, that was amazing. It really connected. I have these new tools to bring into my school. And I’m curious to know how you define success as an educator, not as a presenter, but as an educator. And the reason I ask is because

Sam Demma (32:56):

I think a lot of educators wanna make a positive difference in the lives of the students in their classrooms or the teachers they’re leading. If they’re the principal or the principals, if they’re the superintendent, it, it all comes down to helping mm-hmm. <affirmative> and changing people. But sometimes after a presentation, people won’t walk up to you and tell you how great it was, even though it was, and they still have the connections, but maybe they didn’t feel confident enough to come and tell you, or you changed the student’s life, by the way you talked to them in class for a semester. But they tell you about it 20 years later. And you’re left wondering, well, did I make a difference? and Tom, I’m curious to know, like, how do you define success as an educator? So you don’t, you don’t mislead yourself to believe you’re not making a change or a difference in those moments where people don’t rush up and tell you.

Karl Fernandeas (33:51):

Yeah. That’s, that’s that’s a really thoughtful thing to, to ask. And I guess to reflect on, you know, that’s one of the dilemmas about being a teacher, right? Like every, most people think they’re doing it really well, and some people are very hard on themselves and maybe they are trying well, but they’re just, you know, presented with challenging circumstances. And, you know, we’re an egalitarian workforce in a way, right? A teacher is, you know, we’re presented with, you know, more or less the same conditions no matter where, I mean, there are variances of course, but by the nature of our employment, this is what it is. We’re not, you know, vice president of teaching and <laugh>, you know, like something like that, right? It’s just you, you, so what you try to do is, you know, learn to be effective, you know, learn to really succeed with your curriculum.

Karl Fernandeas (34:42):

Like you need to know your stuff. And on that, I’m, I’m, that’s where I’m uncompromising, you know, like, you can’t teach something you don’t understand and you know, so you have to put the time in to know your material, to understand, you know, the nuances of it, the, the, the traps that students will maybe get stuck with and all that you need to consider changing grades to sort of see how the building blocks form. Like, that’s one of the things I really loved about going down to primary after years up with the older students and just sort of seeing how things come together at that age. And then I was like, oh, you know, I remember sometimes when my intermediate students would struggle with a concept and I’d be working with them at that level trying to figure out how to plug in for them.

Karl Fernandeas (35:21):

And then what it probably turns out is this concept wasn’t fully grasped at a younger grade. They didn’t see it, and then they think they can’t do it. And then it just becomes something, whenever it comes up, it’s like, oh, not that like, you know, like, I’m not good at that. And so when you can sort of see it from all these different levels, you can plug in a little differently and you try to just reinforce it in a way that you hope they’ll carry enough forward, that they’ll feel, I can do this. You know, I’ve got this and that’s what you want to help them feel. But you’re right, it’s, success is abstract in a lot of ways. You know, it’s not performance based. It’s, it’s really a, an intuitive and a a reactive kind of thing, right? How do you feel when you walk out each day, right?

Karl Fernandeas (36:08):

Or when you walk in each day at the end of the year. To me that’s an emotional time, you know, like it really is, as much as your birthday and a calendar year are times to take stock and to think about things the end of a school year, oof. When you get to June, I mean, I love my break, but that’s a tough month because, you know, you’re all sensing it, right? It’s kind of like a, a joy and also the bittersweetness of knowing this is gonna end and the students feel it too, you know, no matter what grade they’re in, they recognize this comfort, this, this, these dynamics that are in the room, these jokes that you share, these little routines that you’ve created. So when a student walks up to you in the schoolyard and you know, are waiting till they get to be in your class again, you gotta take that and, you know, just sort of just feel that you reached, you know, yeah.

Karl Fernandeas (37:00):

That, that, that, that, that mattered there. And when they remind you, even if it’s repeatedly, do you remember when we did whatever it is mm-hmm. <affirmative> and including the online piece, right? Like, I’ve got students that talk about that. We used to go on these walks into the forest cuz we couldn’t really go very far. <laugh> you know, everything was for prohibited, so, yeah. You know, so it’s like, okay, so I’d make up reasons to take the students out and do science, you know, in front of the school. Like, Hey, we’re gonna look at these trees and we’re gonna look at whatever it is and just let’s get outside. Right? And so we’d go to the forest for these walks and then when we went online in whatever that was, January of that year, I told them, listen I, I searched this up when I found these online like ritual nature walks where someone go put, I guess puts a GoPro on and then goes for it and then you can walk along with them in a sense, right?

Karl Fernandeas (37:45):

So I asked my students, would you like to try this cuz there’s some amazing places to go. And they were so enthused about it. And then of course, being these enthusiastic kids, it happened to be the first one I showed them as a winter walk in this forest, and they’re convinced it’s our forest. I’m like, that’s not our forest. Like there’s, there’s <laugh>, there’s almost a river running through it, right? <laugh> then, then they’re convinced it’s me. And like I went out there that morning, like I’m in my kitchen, like <laugh>. So, but you laugh about it together, right? And so I think if I know that those little things mattered, then you feel a sense of, okay, so when I, when when fully grown adults who were my former students, reach out, reach back need to come in and just wanna be in, you know, in your company, how can you not just be overwhelmed with gratitude that like, you know, they don’t have to, right?

Karl Fernandeas (38:36):

Like they can be well on their way in this world, they can think back or not. And you can’t measure that. You can’t know, right? The, the test of time is what it is that you just have to trust that you’ve done what you can. And if you’re sincere as a teacher, you do your best and you also recognize that you, you weren’t perfect, you know, you did make mistakes and you hope that there weren’t ones that, you know, maybe you can’t get it back. So you just hope that, you know, they, they don’t take the wrong thing from you. But there’s that old expression I won’t say it properly, but it’s, you know, people may forget what you did and you know all that, but they’ll never forget how you made them feel. And so I think, you know, I, I’ve, for whatever it’s worth, like I’ve been invited to former student’s weddings and you know, like now some of ’em are playing in bands like, sir, you gotta come hear me play.

Karl Fernandeas (39:19):

And I’m like, sure. You know? So I think those are the, those are some of the markers, right? And I think you, you know, when you get to talk about, they come back and they want to talk about how we won the football championship or the soccer championship way back or you did house league with them. And for some kids, like you see them score their first goal, right? <laugh> because they haven’t really played a much outside of the opportunity to have a House league or something like that. So I think if you were to somehow find a way to quantify all that and put it together, that’s probably a bit about what success would feel like. But ultimately I think you, you know, in your heart, if you’re, if you’re, if you’re being guided by principals and if you don’t stop seeing the students, you know, in front of you is who matters. I think that’s where you can sort of, you know, feel really good. Cuz I really appreciate all the other things I get to do, but none of that would matter very much if I was shorting it out on the, in the classroom side, right? Mm-hmm.

Sam Demma (40:18):

<affirmative>, I love that. Thanks for sharing. this has been a very insightful conversation. It’s already been almost 50 minutes. Before we wrap it up, I got some random rapid fire questions for you. Are you ready?

Karl Fernandeas (40:31):

Oh, let me try. Okay.

Sam Demma (40:32):

What’s your favorite sport?

Karl Fernandeas (40:34):

Ooh, gotta be soccer.

Sam Demma (40:36):

What’s the last song you listen to?

Karl Fernandeas (40:39):

Ooh, probably whatever. My son’s made me listen to <laugh>. He’s always putting earbuds in my ear and say, dad, check this out. So

Sam Demma (40:46):

<laugh>. That’s awesome. That’s awesome. what was the first grade that you taught?

Karl Fernandeas (40:55):

As a professional? It would’ve been grade seven.

Sam Demma (40:58):

Nice. who are you cheering for for the World Cup?

Karl Fernandeas (41:04):

Sam, now I I, I gotta be careful with this one, right? Because I don’t know who you’re back in, but I’ll tell you what I mean, Canada was, I was so hopeful for them, you know, I went down and get a chance to watch them play at BMO last year before like everyone was in on the bandwagon and it was just a special night watching these guys just light it up. And so I, I think, you know, they, the moment may have been a bit much, I felt they had a really great opportunity in that first match and it just got away. And then from there you’re looking uphill, right? Like, you know, the math of World Cup, if you get the first one, you’re in a good spot. If you get a tie or a draw, you still are in the conversation, you lose and suddenly the pressure’s on, right?

Karl Fernandeas (41:40):

And they didn’t go from a difficulty easy, right? They went from difficult to more difficult <laugh>. So I think that was regrettable and I, it did kind of feel in the end they didn’t have their best showing. They didn’t look, they were kind of exposed at times. So that was tough because I was all up on Team Canada. I was ready to, I wanted for this city too. I really think I’ve said this to a few friends and family members, but I think what Toronto needs to see happen, they needed to see can’s team go for it, you know, have a little bit of a run and get excited about that. I think the city would’ve just been, you know, would’ve let it up. Yeah, exactly. And if, if this, you know, this beloved Toronto Maple Leafs team of ours ever <laugh> succeeds here. I’m telling you it’s gonna be unreal.

Karl Fernandeas (42:23):

So I hope, but to answer your question honestly, I think the Final eight are really like, there are some powerhouse teams there. I would put in the top tier, I’ve gotta believe the way Brazil and France are playing. They’re the class of the, the tournament and right underneath that you’ve got a solid group of about three teams. And there, there are very few that I’d say, I don’t wanna say the wrong team and maybe have someone say wait, <laugh>, but there are a couple that I think are probably longer shots to, you know, get to the semis. But how about I gotta ask you too then, like who are you looking at?

Sam Demma (42:51):

You, you just never know. Right? Okay.

Karl Fernandeas (42:54):

My, that’s safe. <laugh>,

Sam Demma (42:55):

My, my team was definitely, I was training for Canada. I didn’t yeah, think they were gonna win the World Cup, but I wanted to see them win some games. Yeah. next would’ve been Italy, but they’re not in it and Greek, which are both of my half, half and half my ethnicities and neither of them are in it. So <laugh> yeah, those are cut short. So now I’m just watching for the beautiful game, but I’m not exactly really cheering on anyone and it sounds like you’re in the same boat. So that’s I, I like you said, you know, you appreciate it. It is such a beautiful game and if you’ve, if you played it as you have it, you know your level and you just, you, you can appreciate it, you know, it is, it is such an intricate sport and all the little skills that go into the buildup, that’s what, you know, just makes it so special. Cuz you know, you can watch a basketball game and there can be 200 points scored <laugh>, you know, easily between the two teams and, you know, with soccer they can, they can 120 minutes and Yeah, exactly. Right. And yet the drama and the tension and all that is so, you know, so strong that if you, you have to just sort of appreciate it for, you know, it’s all the, all the things and make it up. So yeah, I’m, I’m all in for good soccer.

Sam Demma (44:03):

Last question for you.

Karl Fernandeas (44:04):

Sure.

Sam Demma (44:06):

Educators tuning in, listening, if they wanna reach out to you, ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get ahold of you or ask, ask a question?

Karl Fernandeas (44:16):

Fair. Let me think. I guess if they’re, if they’re with the any Catholic school board, you can reach me through OECTA because I am part of the professional development network. I’m also with Toronto Catholic, so all teachers know how teacher email works, where, where it’s your name and then the name of the board. So there’s there. I’m really light on the social stamp to be honest. I think it’s one of those things that, it just didn’t really connect for me very much and I just felt that I’m, I’m happier in person and all the opportunities I could ask for have so many have come my way but a couple years ago I was encouraged to start a a LinkedIn profile. So I, it’s lightly used, but it’s there too if anyone, you know, needed to reach me that way too.

Sam Demma (44:55):

Awesome. Karl, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you. I hope we can do a part two maybe a year from now when we all have different, different perspectives and are on different parts of our journey. Enjoy the indoor workouts as it gets cold, and I look, look forward to staying in touch.

Karl Fernandeas (45:15):

Sam, I’ve gotta thank you not only for the opportunity of being so great as a host and guiding this, but I think, you know, the work that you’re doing for young people and also just to recognize teachers because, you know, we’re, we’re in a really unique stage right now. You know, in society and there, there, there is a lot of frustration and, and, and, and everything else, and we see it at ground level, you know, with in schools. So for you to actually make a point of giving teachers a chance to talk about, you know, what we love doing and all that, that’s that’s a rare opportunity and it’s, it’s greatly appreciated. So I hope as well for you that, you know, your path continues to lead to all these really meaningful projects and so it’s appreciated.

Sam Demma (45:57):

Thanks, Karl. Appreciate it a lot. And again, we’ll, we’ll talk soon. Maybe I’ll bump into you in the forest <laugh>.

Karl Fernandeas (46:03):

Love, love it, love it. But we’ll both be still at that time anyways. Right. So <laugh>, thanks Sam, appreciate it.

Sam Demma (46:11):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Karl Fernandes

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Suzanne Imhoff – Art Teacher at St. Croix Falls High School and Student Leadership Advisor

Suzanne Imhoff – Art Teacher at St. Croix Falls High School and Student Leadership Advisor
About Suzanne Imhoff

Suzanne Imhoff, is a 7-12 Art Teacher at St. Croix Falls High School in St. Croix Falls Wisconsin. She is a Nationally Board Certified teacher with 27 years of teaching, coaching and advising experience. She started her career at Siren Schools then moved to St. Croix Falls High School after 4 years and has been there since working as an advisor for the SCFHS Student Council, CLOWNS(elementary student with high school student mentoring club), basketball and softball coach.

Her work with student leaders began back in 1995 with the Wisconsin Association of School Councils and has developed into a passion for helping student leaders reach their full potential. She guides students in her own school and throughout the state of Wisconsin on their own leadership journey. She truly enjoys seeing students move out of their comfort zone and seeing them grow as people.

She keeps her personal creativity going by creating edible cake masterpieces breaking from that only to make decorated sugar cookies at Christmas time. Sweets Creative Confections is an ode to her mentor and father who, even though gone physically, inspires her every day to be the best educator and person she can be.

Connect with Suzanne: Email | Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Croix Falls High School

Siren Schools

Wisconsin Association of School Councils

It’s All in Your Head: Get Out of Your Way by Russ

CADA State Convention

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Suzanne Imhoff. She is a 7-12 Art Teacher at St. Croix Falls High School, and St. Croix Falls, Wisconsin. She’s a nationally board certified teacher with 27 years of teaching, coaching and advising experience. She started her career at Siren Schools and then moved to St. Croix Falls High School after four years and has been there since working as an advisor for the SCFHS Student Councul, the CLOWNS(elementary student with high school student mentoring club) basketball and softball coach. Her work with student leaders began back in 1995 with the Wisconsin Association of School Councils and has developed into a passion for helping student leaders reach their full potential. She guides students in her own school and throughout the state of Wisconsin on their own leadership journeys.

Sam Demma (00:57):

She truly enjoys seeing students move out of their comfort zone and seeing them grow as people. She keeps her personal creativity going by creating edible cake masterpieces, which you’ll hear about on the show today, breaking from that only to make decorated sugar cookies at Christmas time. Sweet’s creative confections is an ode to her mentor and father who, even though gone physically inspires her every day to be the best educator and person she can be. I hope you enjoy this energizing conversation with Suzanne and I will see you on the other side. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today we are a joined by a very special guest that I met when I was in Turtle Lake, not in Canada, but in the US of A <laugh>, and her name is Suzanne Moff. She was a part of a, a conference that I was a part of and she came up to me after the presentation and showed me a picture of a beautiful cake she designed <laugh> along with letting me know that she was involved with state leadership and her school’s leadership. And it got me really excited to, to invite her on the show and she’s here with us today. So, Suzanne, please introduce yourself and let everyone know a little bit about what it is that you do.

Suzanne Imhoff (02:16):

Hi. Yeah. I met Sam first virtually a couple years ago when the pandemic happened, and then in person. I’ve been teaching for 27 years now and been with student leadership for that long. Started out in Siren, Wisconsin, but stayed there for four years and I’ve been with my current district for the next 24. I, well, truth be told, was never going into education and was never going to deal with students, with kids ’cause that’s what my parents told me I was gonna do <laugh> and so I was gonna do something completely different. Yes. And then I found myself and everything I was doing for fun outside of what I had to do and going to school was teaching, and so finally I got on my own way and went into education and I, I’d love it.

Suzanne Imhoff (03:11):

There’s just nothing else I’d rather do. I, I think about it and with everything that’s gone on in Wisconsin with education and I guess the United States for that matter I like, oh, I could open, like key said, open my own bakery, and then I’m like, oh yeah. And then I could have a side room where I could have people come in and I could teach ’em how to do things. Oh, so you’re back to teaching. So why get out of teaching to go back into teaching <laugh>? so it’s just in my blood. It’s just what I love to do. I, I can’t really see myself doing anything else. I, I love coaching, I love teaching art. I love the student leadership portion of it, which I’ve been doing since 1995. Probably Sammy weren’t even born, but you know, there’s that

Sam Demma (03:54):

<laugh> you mentioned you’ve been teaching for 27 years and in, you know, in student leadership for that long as well. Does that mean year one you started with student council and helping out with extra cooker activities where you could

Suzanne Imhoff (04:09):

Actually I was involved with the state student council organization that I belonged to Scott Association of School Councils even before I got my first job. Oh, wow. I graduated in May and got a call and said, Hey, we need some help at this leadership camp. I’m like okay. Don’t know what that is. They’re like, okay, we’ll be in Stevens point at one o’clock on a Friday. And I’m like, okay. And I did, and I was hooked saw what it did for kids in one week. the difference that that camp made, I thought, oh, this is something I need to be involved with. And so when I got my first teaching job, I coached basketball. I had been coaching basketball all through high school and through in college, played basketball in college. And then I, I just knew that the classroom isn’t where everything is learned.

Suzanne Imhoff (04:59):

And to me, you can learn just as much on the sports field or in a club if not more of what you need to take out of, you can teach the X’s and o’s you know, addition, subtraction and all that kind of stuff. But truly a student, a kid learns, develops, becomes who they are in these other things. And that’s why I feel it’s so important that they are happening and that I’m able to guide students with that, I guess. Hmm. I, I feel like I do more of my teaching outside of my actual classroom than I do within my classroom.

Sam Demma (05:34):

Hmm. You mentioned that that first, you know, student leadership camp that you went to, it just really opened your eyes to how important those types of activities were because it has the potential to change a young person’s life. You’ve been involved in teaching for 27 years and student leadership, and I’m sure you’ve seen so many like student transformations. can you think of a student who at the start of a new year was really timid and shy or was struggling and by the end of a leadership experience or just, you know, a full year of school really butterflied and just really grew per personally as a, as a, as a human being? And if so, what was that story like? Share it with us. And the reason I ask is because I think educators, that’s why they got into teaching in the first place cuz they wanted to make a difference, you know?

Suzanne Imhoff (06:26):

Yeah. it’s, it’s funny the two stories come to mind. well the first one was a girl who Shai wouldn’t say anything. She was actually she would in small groups would be fine, but was never, she’s like, I’m gonna lead behind the scenes. I’m gonna do this. We had an assembly. I knew she could be that person and I knew she could go out but would never put herself out there. had an assembly. All the kids are in a homecoming assembly needs to start. And I handed the microphone. She’s like, what am I supposed to do with us, Michael? We gotta get this party started. And she’s like, yeah, but, but I go, they’re all way to go. She’s like, what? What? And she stuttered and she, but she went out and she did it. And to this day she will still come back and say, I will never forget that day.

Suzanne Imhoff (07:12):

I didn’t think I could do it, but I knew that you would never tell, put me in a situation cuz it’s something I’ve always told my students, but that you would never put me in a situation that you didn’t think I could do. Mm-hmm. I would never, I, and I, I tell ’em, I’m not gonna ask you to, you may not think you could do it, but I’m gonna put you out there cuz I think you could do it. And she’s like, I, I knew I could do that. Wasn’t comfortable with it, didn’t wanna continue to do it, but I did it and I lived and was able to take that experience and into her adult life. And now she’s married and has her own children and she still comes back and tells that story. The other one I have it was a of a, a boy who as a freshman you couldn’t get two words out of him. Mm-hmm. His end result was becoming the state student council president and then going on to Yale University and graduating from there.

Sam Demma (08:09):

Damn.

Suzanne Imhoff (08:11):

I never thought anything of it other than I was doing my job. I’m like, I saw something in him. And again, I, like I said, I’ve always told the kids, I’m not gonna put you in a situation that I don’t think you can do. And I had him doing things. I’m like, oh, Matt, why don’t you try this? Oh, Matt, why don’t you try this? Why don’t you do this here, go do this. I need you to do this. And each year I just pushed him a little farther. He was my student council president and had him run for the regional officer and then as the regional president, he ran for the state president and became that. And I, and it never really dawned on me, I guess and thought about it until his graduation party and his parents came up to me and they’re like, thank you.

Suzanne Imhoff (08:53):

I’m like, for what? And they’re like Matt’s going to Yale because of you. And I’m like, no, he’s not. Matt’s going to Yale because Matt’s smart. Matt’s got a lot going for him. He’s done a lot of great things. They’re like, no, you put him in situations where he could be successful and make himself better and that we thank you for that. And I never looked at it like that. I just looked at it like, oh, I need to help this kid get to his full potential. I need to get him into positions. Putting him, taking him places, taking him to those, you know, leadership things that where we met. and that’s why I do what I do. And that to me is that’s the pinnacle. That’s, that’s my driving force behind things is, oh, that made, you know, those are like what I call my career makers <laugh>.

Suzanne Imhoff (09:42):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> sometimes I’m just like, why am I doing this job? And then I’ll get a text or I’ll get an email or I’ll get, you know thank you from a parent. And I was like, oh, okay. Well that’s why, that’s why cuz I touched that person’s life and I was able to help them move forward in a positive direction. So Yep. Okay. Worth it. Check. And then I can con that fills my bucket and I can continue to move on. And if it’s only one student a year, that’s one more student than I would’ve done had I not been in that position or not kids in those positions. So, Hmm. That’s why I do it. But those are two of the stories that really come to mind when I think about did it work? Do am I doing the right thing? And so, yeah.

Sam Demma (10:21):

Did did you have an educator in your life when you were growing up, tap you on the shoulder and help you try and reach your full potential? Like it was, is there a full circle story

Suzanne Imhoff (10:31):

<laugh>? There is. Well, it’s kind of funny because I just didn’t realize it until after the fact, but my dad was an educator. Mm. well he was a teacher and then became a business manager and then became a superintendent. I hated every minute of that <laugh> thought, oh God, never would I ever do that to my children. I will never be an educator, they’ll never go to school with in the same school. They’re like, I’ll never do that. Both my children will graduate from the same high school I teaching. So never say and ever. but I did have a a teacher who I’m still in contact with that is the person that I could go to for whatever. And she taught health class of all things. and, but she was just somebody I could talk to. And I look back at having that one person made a huge difference in my life.

Suzanne Imhoff (11:23):

And if I’m that one person, whether I have ’em as a student or not, meaning if they’re come to my art class and wanna take art class, they’re all my students. They’re all my kids. I really call ’em my kids. but having that means that I’m there for that person and didn’t realize how much the mental health part of it was a big deal back then that I needed, that isn’t, you know, it wasn’t put out there as mental health like it is today, thank goodness. but yeah, so I’m still, still in contact with that person. Still have a great relationship with them and see him all the time when I can when I go back to the hometown. And so yeah, I guess I did. But my dad was also that person that, you know, he saw it, he knew it, he told me wish he wouldn’t have, would’ve saved me a lot of time in college, but I had to figure it out for myself. I might have that little stubborn streak in me. I like to call it determined streak. I like it. <laugh>, <laugh>. But I did, I had to get outta my own way and see it for myself before I could actually achieve it. So I loved that my students to see that as well.

Sam Demma (12:33):

The, there’s a book I really love called it’s All in Your Head and the subtitle, the book is Get Out of your Way and the Every Time You Say It, that Book’s Confidence in my Mind. <laugh> one of the things I admire about you is that you’ve continuously pursued your other passions along with your teaching and your education work. And sometimes people that get involved in education get so consumed by it that the things that they also love doing. Take a backseat. One of the things I know you love doing is designing cakes and <laugh>, not only maybe baking in general, but not only do you like designing cakes, but you’re pretty damn good at it. <laugh>, <laugh>. The cakes are freaking awesome. thank you. Can you tell me a little bit about how you manage the time? Like, of balancing both losing yourself in education and service of, of young people, but also making sure that you, you spend some time on things that bring you joy personally as well?

Suzanne Imhoff (13:34):

Well, yeah, it’s, there’s times where I’m like, oh, why did I say yes to make this cake? Cause you have a full-time job, do that. And then I start making it and it’s creativity and that it, as much as it, I’m like, oh, I don’t really have time, but it de-stresses me. So I actually doing that forces me to do something that makes me happy. I working with fondant or modeling clay or gum paste, it’s just edible clay, it’s what I do. It’s, you know, people like, oh, did you, you know, go to a class? I’m like, no. Well, maybe I guess college when I worked with clay, but that’s all it was. It’s, it’s, you know, it’s edible clay. People are like, oh, it’s too pretty to eat. I’m like, well eat it because it’s cake. And if you don’t eat cake, that’s just dumb <laugh> cake.

Suzanne Imhoff (14:20):

I mean, so yeah, it’s, you know, I, I like the sculpting aspect of it. I, and it’s my release and I work late at night. I’m a night owl. Yeah, I’d like to be able to sleep. I’m not a morning person. I get up when I do it and I, for myself that extra cup of coffee the next day sometimes. And and obviously more you practice the, the better you get. I am by no means a perfect cake decorator or sculptor, but it’s gotten easier. I’m able to do things faster, so that helps. and it’s funny cuz I do involve my family cause they’re my daughter, she’s an artist, but my husband and my son, no, not at all. <laugh>. I love them dearly, but it’s just not their thing. Yeah. But I ask them, what do you think of this? And they’ll be like, you know, if they’re like, here’s something or if there’s like something they have something’s off on it then I know that the person, cuz I’ve been staring at it for so long that, you know, can’t see.

Suzanne Imhoff (15:19):

If they see it, then there is something that needs to be, or if I’m just being over critical of myself. but it really is a stress really for me. I can actually physically feel myself less stressed after making something, creating something, be it out of cake or decorating cookies or whatever it is. so it might be more time. I might get a little less sleep, but in the end it’s worth the de-stressing that it does for me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and the family doesn’t mind cake scraps that I cut off to level the cake or sculpting <laugh>. That’s never an issue. Always having frosting in the fridge, never an issue

Sam Demma (15:58):

<laugh>.

Suzanne Imhoff (15:59):

So it, it benefits them as well sometimes.

Sam Demma (16:02):

Just to give context to the listener, this is not a box of cake you buy from the grocery store mix with eggs and 30 minutes later, voila. this is a cake that you would buy at a charity event for $2,800 <laugh>. These are cakes that look identical to a dinosaur. Cakes that have Rapunzel with her hair coming down the cake and going all the way around the base. how long does it take to bake one of these and design one of these cakes?

Suzanne Imhoff (16:39):

Roughly takes, well it depends upon how, you know, if I’m sculpting or whatever on average I would say the least amount of time I’d spend on a cake would be seven hours. And I have spent probably 24 to 30 hours on cakes. It depends upon what the amount of sculpting that I’m doing. and if like for a wedding cake you know, if I’m making cupcakes then I’m at it. I’m making the toppers that go along with all of those those kinds of things. So it all depends upon the amount of sculpting that I’m doing with it. I absolutely love making sugar roses. Those are very time consuming, but they’re so therapeutic. I absolutely love, love, love making them and that my goal is always to make them look as realistic as possible. People are like, oh my gosh, that was made outta sugar. So yeah. But you can eat it

Sam Demma (17:28):

<laugh>. What, what was your introduction to baking? Was it something that you were introduced to in school or how did you get into it?

Suzanne Imhoff (17:37):

Really, I had seen stuff on TV and my son was having a jungle birthday party. cuz I’m that mom who goes overboard on birthday parties. <laugh> always have it’s hard baby. And so I decided, oh well you know what? Let’s just try this. And that was my first cake and he was eight, he’s now 18, so 10 years ago I guess. and I’m like, oh well that wasn’t too bad. And then my daughter had her birthday, well his was in November and hers was in February. So then I’m like, oh, let’s try her. So she had a pink poodle. So I just started sculpting out of the spawn stuff and just kind of blossomed from there. I didn’t, I didn’t really have a, I dunno, I’ve always lud to bake, so that was never an issue. but the whole cake part of it was, oh well I used to watch Cake Boss a lot and then Ace of Cakes. I absolutely love the fact that he would be like, wow the wack and do different things and try different things and stuff. So I haven’t convinced my husband that I need a wood shop in my son’s spare bedroom when he leaves and goes to college next year. So I’m working on that. But

Sam Demma (18:44):

<laugh> That’s awesome. baking teaching, you mentioned that coaching has also been a part of your educational journey in your life. Tell me a little bit about that.

Suzanne Imhoff (18:55):

Yeah, I coaching is just to me is an extension of the classroom. it’s just another place to teach students how to be them, be their best selves and it takes it one step farther because they have to do that and also be a teammate and help others be their best selves. so I find that as a challenge in a different level of it’s a different level of commitment. it’s not necessarily, yes, you have your exes and nos and you’ve got your plays and you’ve gotta do all that stuff, but I’ve always taught, taught my student, my student athletes that you guys have to work as one. Cuz I coach basketball and softball. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, those are the two sports that I have coached. and you have to work as one and you’re only as strong as your weakest link.

Suzanne Imhoff (19:48):

Not Michael, but it’s something that I, I think is true because you can have all parts going and one part doesn’t go it, the play’s not gonna work. And then what are you gonna do? I mean, there’s a lot to be said with that. So either you’re gonna just fall apart or you’re gonna adapt and figure out how to make that part work. Or you’re gonna figure out, okay, if this isn’t gonna work with that part of that’s not, that teammate’s not gonna do what we’re gonna ask him to do, then how are we gonna work around that? How are we gonna adapt to the situation? How are we gonna, you know, basketball, you adapt to the defense and all of a sudden one time down on the floor, they’re playing zone. The next time they’re playing, man, you gotta change your def your offense.

Suzanne Imhoff (20:26):

And can you react to that? How do you react to that? Do you just give up? Do you just panic? Do you, you know, so there’s just so many life lessons that can happen on the court and getting to know kids on a different level. it’s a win-win because then it comes back to my classroom and they see me in a different light and I see them in a different light. you know, sometimes they come in and they’re like, you can just tell that they need some space. It’s like, okay, you’re gonna take this, we gotta come back to it. But, you know, take this time, take the same thing on the court. You know, they can come into practice and I coach girls and there’s drama, always drama hate. It drives me crazy. What are my girls? You have to be the best teammates when you are on this court.

Suzanne Imhoff (21:12):

I don’t care if if your teammate just kissed your boyfriend right before you walked into practice. It’s doesn’t matter on this court. Yeah. Because on this court, you guys are the best friends, you’re the best teammates. Now when you go outta here, you have to sell that whatever way. But when you’re on this court, you are together as one and outside of here has to go away. So you have to kind of separate that and how it’s just like going to a job. You know, there’s people you, you have to deal with at your job that you don’t have to deal with outside. And you have to figure out how you’re gonna manage that within that timeframe and make things successful for you and your teammates. And how are you gonna build them up even if it’s somebody you don’t like that happens. That’s life.

Suzanne Imhoff (21:53):

So, and that’s the one thing about it. I just love that you’re able to, to teach them the life skills that they can have going forward and translate that into every other part of their lives. and getting to know them. Just some of my, the students that I come back in I see all the time are the ones that not necessarily were in my classroom, they were on my court or they were in my student council, or they were in our clowns mentoring group. I mean, those are the ones that you kinda get to know at a different level versus here’s my subject matter, learn that and then we’ll, I’ll give you a grade and then we’ll move forward. So it’s learning and meeting kids where they are and meeting ’em on a different level. and being a human to ’em, you know, it’s like, it’s kinda like being their friend but not, but it’s a respect, like, I’m still your teacher, I’m still your coach.

Suzanne Imhoff (22:43):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> I’m here for you. But we aren’t gonna cross, you know, there’s that line of respect of I’m gonna respect you, you have to respect me, there’s boundaries. but I’ve, I’ve got you, you know, I’m here for you. I will do what I can to help you get through whatever it is you need to get through or meet the needs, your needs at that at that moment. And coaching allows me to do that, which I really, really enjoy. It’s tough this year cause I’m not coaching cause my son’s a senior. so I’m missing that. And I’ve had some of the middle school kids who I coached last year. They’re like, what do you mean you’re not coaching? I’m like, I can’t give you everything that I need to give you because I want to be able to be there for my son and I don’t think it’s fair. Let’s just leave practice early. I’m like, well that doesn’t put you as a priority and as a coach, if I’m coaching you, you are a priority to me. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And if I can’t give you that full priority, then it’s then I’m not going to be that person there for you. So I just love the relationships. I, I, I kind of thrive on those relationships. I guess they mean a lot to me.

Sam Demma (23:49):

What is the clowns mentoring program? The name caught my attention, but I’m sure it’s amazing. <laugh>.

Suzanne Imhoff (23:56):

Well, I have 35 high school students who choose to dress up as different clowns. scary. And what they do is, I know four times, it’s four times a year. We go here at the high school. We will plan they get, they have the, they have their their rings is what we call them. We have a ring leader and then there’s three or four column to work together. They plan a half hour lesson that they’re going to teach elementary students in grades 4K through fourth grade. Nice. they had to come up with their icebreakers, the activities, the, how are they gonna wrap it up. they give ’em a treat, but they plan the lesson, they execute the lesson. They just happen to dress up as clowns. a different persona for them to, it helps the high school student kind of release like, oh, I have this call makeup of and I look like this.

Suzanne Imhoff (24:50):

So, and then they’re going in front of these elementary kids who just absolutely adore them. And anything that they say comes out of them, you know, is, is golden. but I do see the high school students learn just as much as these elementary kids. They the lessons are all based on, we have a program called Saints Cares for St. Falls Saints. so each month has a different target. one is manners or gratitude or empathy. And so the students will base their lessons that they’re gonna teach the kids on whatever month it is that we are going to, to make the visit. each group visits two to three different classes through that day. We get, we hit every classroom in those grade 4K through fourth grade. and we have four classrooms per grade level. So it’s, it’s, it’s something that, it’s funny cause I don’t really have to work hard to get kids to wanna do it.

Suzanne Imhoff (25:42):

Cause these kids had the clowns come and visit them. And every time I ask ’em, why do you guys wanna be a com? They’re like, oh, it was so, it was awesome when they came, they taught us so much. And I wanna give that back to, I wanna give that experience to these kids right there as a, as a mom, as a teacher, as an advisor. That’s why we do what we do. If we can teach our children to want to give back for what they got out of something, that to me is makes it all worth it.

Sam Demma (26:13):

That’s so, cause

Suzanne Imhoff (26:14):

It was a program that was, yeah, it was a program that was gonna die. And I’m like, no, this can’t die. I have had my children go through it and I see what it does for these kids. So I took it on because I had nothing else to do, which is not true. But

Sam Demma (26:27):

<laugh> you know, earlier, a couple minutes ago you said that you turned down coaching because you knew that you wouldn’t be able to give it the time it deserves. You wouldn’t be able to prioritize the students, the athletes. And then you’re just telling me now that you said yes to doing the clown thing and, and you were busy like you already had other things going on. I think it’s so rare to have an educator that like truly wants to say yes and finds it very hard to say no. Because I think there’s also the reverse that want to say no and try and avoid saying yes to things. And yeah, I just think it’s really cool to hear your perspectives and, and to have you on the show. the clown program. My follow up question was gonna be, have you had a student who was impacted by the clowns and then became one? but you answered that, that that’s so cool that it’s, it’s been around for that long and the impact is now transforming into the teachers of the program. You said it was about to die. How did, how did you resuscitate it? <laugh> the, the program.

Suzanne Imhoff (27:30):

Nobody wanted to do it. And so I’m just like, Nope, I’m gonna do it and we’re gonna kind of restructure it and we’re gonna make it. It kind of was starting to get be the, the previous advisor wasn’t really having the kids stay focused. They were kind of just the high school kids, not Mm. it and wasn’t really putting the effort was kind of just there to, to do it and was like, yeah, I’m done and nobody was gonna step up. I’m like, they’re like, well if nobody’s gonna do it, then we’re not gonna have the program anymore. And I’m like, this just means too much for both the elementary kids and the high school kids. Like I said, I see these high school kids, they’re putting themselves out there. Yeah. I got kids who don’t say boo to high schoolers, don’t say anything and they’re willing to go and stand in, in front of a room of 20 little kids, elementary kids and teach them about good morals and values.

Suzanne Imhoff (28:27):

I mean, if we don’t want that as a program, I don’t know what we want <laugh>. I mean, if we would and to have high school students want to teach that and model that. I mean, it’s a mentoring group. We call it that because they have to follow the behavior that they’re teaching. And I have to turn kids away cuz I can only take so many. and they know that there’s, there’s high expectations and if they don’t follow, I’ve had to head kids, you know, I’m like, guys, your grades matter. You have to be a student first. you have to carry a c or above. It’s, you have, these are expectations. These kids they may not know of, but they know how you are behaving and acting. And you have to be that role model with or without the kind of, the story behind it is they’re like, so for some of the kids are like, we know who you are.

Suzanne Imhoff (29:20):

You’re a high school student. They’re like, no, every clown has a doppel, ganger human <laugh>. So they have a twin in the human world. <laugh>. So anytime a human is born, a clown is born as well. And the clowns are like 472 years old and they’re their age is their, their lunch number actually <laugh>. and so that’s how they get it. And they’re like, well why aren’t you? Why is it just your face that’s white? So they paint their face white and, and a symbol on there because the older they get the more the whiteness spreads as a clown. And they’re pretty young so they’re not, they’re not old enough to have their whole body coming in. White makeup <laugh>, there’s a whole story behind it. You know, it goes with that whole Santa Claus Easter bunny, that kinda thing. And

Sam Demma (30:09):

Is this totally created, like the whole story is created by you and and the group of people. That’s so cool. Yeah.

Suzanne Imhoff (30:16):

Yeah. And they, like I say, the kids, the, all of my clowns, I have all but two cuz two have moved in and our clowns have gone through it. They saw them, they and they’re like, we totally thought that was, they were, that was a real, real thing. <laugh>. and, and like I said, but they’re like, it was so cool that would, they would come and that they would spend time with us cuz they go out to recess with them. So they teach ’em these lessons. They eat lunch with them, they go out to recess, they play games with them. and there are, you know, they just remember that again, it goes back to that time outside the classroom that makes a difference in a kid’s life that I, I have had a student tell me, they’re like, you know, the clowns cup came and that was the only day I felt special.

Suzanne Imhoff (31:05):

Mm-hmm. Because they would sit with me and they would talk with me and they would play with me. And I really truly felt special on the days that clown came to visit. So that’s why I wanna do this. I want, if I can help one person, so what I do and the reason I do it is the same reasons they do it. And so that to me is why I’m like, oh yeah, can’t, and we don’t, we’re self-funded. The kids have a a fee. They buy their own makeup, they come up with their own costumes. They’re all themed costumes. It’s not like your traditional clowns. like my, my daughter is currently one and she’s strawberry shark cake. She doesn’t like you call, she just like calling strawberry. So she wears course,

Sam Demma (31:46):

Of course. The

Suzanne Imhoff (31:46):

Strawberry sweater. Yeah. No, I’m like, ah, strawberry shortcake.

Sam Demma (31:49):

Of course there’s a cake in there. Strawberry

Suzanne Imhoff (31:51):

Leggings, strawberry earrings. She puts the white makeup and then puts strawberries on her face. Strawberry headband. So they’re kind of, each one has a theme. Mitz he’s a baseball clone. and then we have qb, he’s the football clown. Yes. So yeah, they’re all different kind of themes and the kids love getting dressed up. I mean, who doesn’t? Cause I do

Sam Demma (32:14):

<laugh>. This is, this, this program sounds amazing. <laugh>. it’s funny, I was talking to an educator the other day from, it would’ve been British Columbia, one of the provinces like far far west in Canada. And he was like, every year I go to California to this conference called Kata. And it’s like the, it’s a big leadership conference in California. And have you been before by any chance?

Suzanne Imhoff (32:37):

I’ve heard of it. I’ve wanted to go. Go. I’ve heard of it.

Sam Demma (32:39):

Yeah. So, so ba basically what he told me was like, leadership in Canada is like a cookie leadership in the US is like, Suzanne m h’s $2,800 cake <laugh>. He’s like, he’s like, it’s a, it’s just a different, it’s just a different experience. Like it’s so, it’s such a big part of the culture and such a big part of the education system. And for someone who’s not familiar with like a statewide conference, like what does that look like? What does a statewide leadership conference look like?

Suzanne Imhoff (33:12):

It’s funny you asked because I’m hosting the one our school is hosting, the one we’re having this year. so you’ll have kids from all over the state come in. We have a keynote speaker. It’s a two day conference, usually a Sunday, Monday. they come in and we have a keynote speaker and then we have regional business meetings where we elect officers, state officers. Nice. talk about things that hit on the regional levels. The state of Wisconsin’s divided into six regions. and then opposite that they have what we call super sectionals cuz they’re a little bit longer. So they’re our sectionals where we have presenters who will present on anything from mental health to how to lead after high school, how to lead in high school, how to any aspect, servant leadership fundraising, I mean, you name it, we, any topic that the kids would want to potentially hear about.

Suzanne Imhoff (34:15):

So we have those. we have banquet, we award like regional administrators of the year, state administrators of the year. Oh wow. also advisors give different leadership roles. And then we have some entertainment of course dances and fun things like that. And then on Monday we have another keynote speaker, but then we have other sectional breakouts as well. The ones on Sunday are typically led by adults, but the ones on Monday are led by students. Oh, wow. So different groups will put together some, like maybe presenting on a service project that they do or different organizations that they work with or different ways that they lead in their school or how they can get students involved. how do they run their homecomings? How do they run different community service opportunities different things. So whatever they want to, how to run a meeting, how to I know this year we’re gonna be bringing in some kids who have graduated.

Suzanne Imhoff (35:21):

Matt, the student I talked to you about earlier, he’s gonna come back and, and sit on the panel and say, okay, how did you take your leadership from high school level to the college level? Mm. And then from college, how do you take it beyond there? So there’s gonna be sectionals based for like freshman and sophomores and then once for juniors and seniors. Like, how can I continue this? I’m here, I’m in this small and a fishbowl of my school. How do I take it to the next level of college if I’m going to, you know, say UW Madison or a big school or even if I’m going to a private school, how do I stay involved and how do I use what I’ve learned going forward? So those will be there’ll be four, three different opportunities, but there’ll be probably 15 to 1220 different sessions.

Suzanne Imhoff (36:04):

Wow. And then we have a closing thing and they, then they go home. So that’s our, the state cover. So it’s a, we have big speakers come in, but then we also, I like the breakout sessions where students can go and, and learn different things that maybe interest them. So, nice. But that’s, yeah, on Sunday it’s usually adults. It doesn’t have to be. but then student led breakouts, which again, it’s putting kids in leadership situations, they have to lead the group, they have to lead these, you know, presentations. So they’re learning skills just as much as the person attending the students that are attending. So

Sam Demma (36:40):

That’s awesome. Yeah, I was gonna say, when you mentioned awards for administrators of the year and stuff like that, that’s, that’s really cool because it’s part, it’s partly for the educators and the adults as well, not just the, not just the students. So, oh yeah. That’s cool. I’m, I’m assuming there’s a big community around it, like each, each year is it held at a different school and all of you come together and it’s like, oh my gosh, Jane, I haven’t seen you since last year. Yeah.

Suzanne Imhoff (37:06):

<laugh>. Yep. Oh yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s kinda like old home week whenever we get together and be able to, you feel like you just pick up where you left off the last time. You know, it’s a nice network. it that you can build as an advisor. I’ve, you know, I’ve relied on these people, some of these other advisors that I’ve met through this, you know, and through the state conference and through other activities that we’ve done that I’m like, oh, guy sitting on the email, okay, this is my situation. Have you guys ever experienced this? Some have, some haven’t. Hey, gimme some tips. Check. I mean, you, you can’t, can’t live in a bubble and think you’re going to, you know, get it all solved yourself. Learn from others’ experiences, steal ideas, you know, share what you’ve done with, you know, oh yeah, you’re gonna run this at homecoming.

Suzanne Imhoff (37:52):

Oh, we did that. Just know that, you know, this is the issues that we ran into or this is what was so successful. You know, why reinvent the wheel? Let’s take it and make it better. And sharing, I, I think you have to know, you have to work together. You have to give ownership to, you know, or give away the ownership. It’s not mine, it’s ours. Let’s make it all better and let me learn from you and you learn from me. And again, the end result is making students better and whether up here in northern Wisconsin or they’re in the southern part of the state. So that’s the important part.

Sam Demma (38:25):

Yeah, that’s a beautiful perspective. I was recently at a professional development conference to learn in Calgary, which is about a four hour flight from where I am now. and while I was sitting in the crowd, there was a slide that came up on one of the presenter’s presentations and the slide said something along the lines of, when a group of people get lost together in developing and building a worthy cause and none of them care about who gets the credit for it, that’s when real change gets made. And it sounds like this statewide type of a conference is, is similar. It’s like everyone’s coming together with the goal of hoping to make students’ lives better and help them reach their full potential. And to also help, you know, appreciate some of the staff that played a role in their lives. I just think it’s a really beautiful thing.

Sam Demma (39:11):

It, switching gears for a second, if you could travel back in time, tap yourself on the shoulder the first year you started teaching, but maintain all of the experiences you had now, kind of like getting in the back to the future car, but not going to the future. But going back if you could like walk into that first classroom you taught, tap yourself on the shoulder and say, Hey Suzanne, this is the advice I think you need to hear. not because you would change anything about your path, but knowing what you know now and what the experiences you’ve had, what would you have told your younger self?

Suzanne Imhoff (39:44):

I guess the one thing I would say would be it’s okay to the, to let my students fail. Hmm. I know that, and we’ve always said it, but to truly let them fail in what is happening. and not worry if it is a reflection on whether I failed or not. Hmm. and that’s, that was, that’s probably been the hardest lesson for me to learn. Cuz I’m like, okay, so alright, you’ve gotta do this. Oh, they’re not doing it, I’ll just do it. Hmm. No, I need to like let them not do it. if they were supposed to have a poster out and advertise it and then we don’t get as many people, well guys, we didn’t get as many people why what the reflection and evaluation of anything that I’ve done. That would be the one thing is looking at, you know, the failure as okay.

Suzanne Imhoff (40:40):

And it’s kind of cliche, but it’s a learning experience and I didn’t truly embrace that until I was into, well into my teaching and advising. And that would be the one thing that would be like, okay, no, you need to truly realize that it doesn’t make you a bad person because the event wasn’t as successful as you’d hoped. Mm. Or the lesson didn’t quite go as you had planned. That’s okay. What are you gonna do next time? What are we gonna, where, how are we gonna move forward from it? and know that it’s okay, that’s gonna happen. And if it doesn’t happen, that’s when you aren’t moving anybody forward because you don’t really truly learn or get better. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> if you don’t go outta your comfort zone. Hmm. And I, that was, I knew it. I’ve had had people tell me that, but I didn’t truly embrace it. And that would be the one thing I would go back and cuz there’s like times where I’m like, you know, if you had to let that kind of not go and not have done all the things for the kids, we would’ve gotten to the better place that we are now sooner. Hmm.

Suzanne Imhoff (41:52):

If that makes sense. It does. This took a little longer, kind of like when my parents, if I were to <laugh> listen to them going out, out of the box, I would’ve gotten into education a little sooner. But

Sam Demma (42:03):

Yeah. Hindsight’s 2020, right. <laugh> right

Suzanne Imhoff (42:06):

Own way. That’s what I I i that you just need to get outta your own and realize that you can do this and you will make mistakes, but you’ll get there and you’ll get there sooner if you stop telling yourself that you can’t do it.

Sam Demma (42:22):

Hmm. I love that. I think it applies for educators as well. You know, you’ll become the educator you always want to be when you stop telling yourself that you can’t or that that you don’t have the skills required or whatever the story might be. But yeah, I appreciate you for sharing a lot of your wisdom and insights today on the show. If someone’s, it’s already been almost like 45 minutes. If, if someone I know we, it’s a great episode. If someone wants to reach out, ask you questions, buy cake <laugh> <laugh>, well, what would be the best way for them to reach out and get in touch with you?

Suzanne Imhoff (42:55):

Oh yeah, sure. Emailing me is probably the, the, the best way that I check that constantly, but that’s imhofsu@scfschools.com

Sam Demma (43:14):

Awesome. Suzanne, thank you again for coming on the show. Keep up the great work, and keep baking those cakes and we’ll talk soon.

Suzanne Imhoff (43:20):

Oh, you’re welcome. Thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. It was great. It was fun.

Sam Demma (43:24):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Suzanne Imhoff

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Dr. Ivan Joseph – TED talk (21 million views), Speaker, Author and Self-Confidence Expert

Dr. Ivan Joseph – TED talk (21 million views), Speaker, Author and Self-Confidence Expert
About Dr. Ivan Joseph

Dr. Ivan Joseph (@DrIvanJoseph) is a six-time Coach of the Year recipient and Director of Athletics at Ryerson University. He is a sought-after speaker on developing personal and organizational leadership. He has a BA in Physical Education and Health, an MS in Higher Education Administration and a Ph.D. in Sports Psychology. His popular Tedx talk on the skill of self-confidence has garnered over 21 million views. For more information on Dr. Joseph, please visit, www.drivanjoseph.com

Connect with Ivan: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

www.drivanjoseph.com

Ryerson University

BA in Physical Education and Health – Graceland University

Graduate Programs – Drake University

PhD in Psychology – Capella University

You Got This: Mastering the Skill of Self-Confidence by Dr. Ivan Joseph

Positive Affirmations

Expert Secrets by Russel Brunson

Workshops by Dr. Ivan Joseph

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is someone I have really wanted to interview on my podcast for a very long time. His name is Dr.Ivan Joseph. Dr.Ivan Joseph is a sixth time Coach of the year recipient and Director of athletics at Ryerson University. He is a sought after speaker on developing personal and organizational leadership. He has his BA in Physical Education and Health, and Masters in Higher Education Administration, and a PhD in Sports Psychology. His popular TEDex talk on the skill of self-confidence has garnered over 21 million views. Dr. Ivan Joseph is also an actor, a father, and a very amazing human being. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Ivan, and I will see you on the other side. Ivan, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast.

Sam Demma (01:02):

Huge pleasure to have you on the show after reading your book, watching your, your TEDx talk that has over 21 million views, I want to start this off in a different fashion. I’ve, I’ve listened to a lot of your interviews. I want to get vulnerable right from the start so you can have the chance to introduce yourself, but I want to ask you personally, what is an aspect of your life where you lacked personal confidence and you followed your own tactics and tools, systems and strategies, to change that situation and, and, and let us know how that happened?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (01:35):

Well, well, thank you for having me first of all, Sam, and, and I’ll say this, your question I can answer it at 10, 12, 15 different ways. You know, the, the situation with confidence is, is that you, you acquire it, but then once you achieve success, you move on or you get promoted that struggle comes back because you’ll feel imposter syndrome seep in, and then you’ll manage it, you’ll master it, because we’re hard workers. Then you’ll get to the next level, and again, you’ll feel like you don’t belong. You’ll feel like, oh my goodness, they’re gonna, they’re gonna catch me. And, and so there’s not one situation, I’ll give you one situation, but recognize that this is one of many. So I’ll give you the first example. When I became the Director of Athletics at Ryerson University, recognize that I came from a town of 1200 students from a school that only had 1200 people in it.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (02:29):

So to combine the school and the town, you had 2,500 people, no Walmart, no McDonald’s, no stop signs, no stop lights. And they plumped me into this director of athletics job where I went from managing one person and a budget of 30,000 to bud, to managing a budget that ended in millions, and having to wor work an administrative assistant, lead people, manage people. I didn’t know how to do any of that. And so here I was in this big city of Toronto, millions of people in charge of a budget rebuilding a hundred million maple leaf gardens, and I felt like I was an imposter. And so I did what I know and what I know worked well as a soccer coach, really, which was, I was first there, I was last to leave. Mm. I read everything I could. I found myself a mentor when I didn’t know. I didn’t pretend. I didn’t know, which is that instead of fake it till you make it, I said, I don’t know. Let me get back to you. I asked for help. And most importantly, and this is the criti critical piece, is when I, when I wanted to run away and push the easy button and quit, I just talked to myself out of it. Hmm. And that allowed me to grow into the job.

Sam Demma (03:47):

What did that self-talk look like? When, when we’re in situations where there’s a negative voice, one, how do you create that space to realize, like snap out of the initial moment and realize I’m having negative thoughts right now? And then what course of action do you take to reverse that?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (04:05):

Well, I’ll tell you, I remember it as Claire as day, right? Seeing myself walking down young street off the go train, and here I am, like in my briefcase, in my suit, a guy who never ever wore a suit. I was a tra, I was a soccer coach. I wore, I wore track pants and shorts, and I’m like, who is that guy? That’s not me seeing the reflection off the building. And I was like, stop it. Right? Stop it. I remember sitting in meetings and people are like, oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God, I don’t know what I’m doing. Stop it. Stop it. And so, I d I use what athletes use what I teach my students, which is sports psychology techniques, physical actions, right? These are called thought stopping or centering actions. You use those actions to say, stop.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (04:50):

Right, stop the negative thought and then replace it with the positive affirmation. And you’ll hear me talk about that later on. But with, you can’t stop that negative thinking. What had happens is it influences your beliefs. And soon when you start to believe something about yourself, then it influences your actions. And soon as your actions start acting out, then people, your peers, your bosses, your friends, they will start seeing you and treating you differently based on those actions. And when they see and treat you differently, Sam, it starts that cycle over again. Well, they don’t think I’m good enough. Well, I mustn’t be good enough. Oh, man, I made a mistake. Why is that guy making so many mistakes? I’m not gonna put him in that position. And this vicious self-defeating cycle starts over and over again that it’s hard to break out of.

Sam Demma (05:40):

And when you realize you’re having a negative belief, I understand the physical action, the changing of the rubber band onto your other wrist was something that you read about, you wrote about in your book for your athletes on the soccer pitch or any pitch. Once you realize it and you stop it, how do you replace it? do you use affirmations? Like what’s the next step to build the new confidence that should take that negative beliefs place?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (06:04):

Yeah. And you have to replace it with something, right? You, you can’t just say, stop. And that’s when these automatic affirmations need to come like that. Mm. And so the time isn’t when you’re having a negative thought to think about your affirmation. You prepare your affirmation, so it’s ready to go, and it comes just like that. And so my three are, nobody outworks me. I can learn anything. And I am the captain of my ship and the master of my fate. I use that one. I am the captain of my ship and the master of my fate. When I feel overwhelmed, when I’m like, I’m not in control. I use, nobody outworks me. When things don’t come easy, I’m like, I’m gonna, I’m gonna show up first. I’m gonna, it doesn’t matter how long it takes and when it’s, things are hard when I’m not getting it, oh my gosh, this is complicated. I can learn anything. These are reminders for me that just say, okay, get me in the right spot again. Recognize that my affirmation isn’t I’m gonna make a million dollars. Maybe some people wanna do that, but I subscribe to genuine, authentic affirmations that are about behavior.

Sam Demma (07:11):

I love that. I’ve been walking every morning after my buddy Nick comes over and works out in our backyard, you know, trying to stay covid friendly. So we do it outside on a little bar gym that I built, and I walk after he leaves every morning, and I listen to a three minute YouTube video. And I know you’re a big fan of Muhammad Ali. Oh, yes. And there’s a whole section in the video, and every time I hear it, I just get goosebumps. and it puts me in this mindset that just, it just forces me to take a hold of my day. And when he’s saying, you know, I am the greatest in this YouTube video, and he’s talking about how all these people are gonna doubt him you know, I’m trying to think of the exact words that he uses in the video. He goes, all you chumps are gonna bow when I whoop him, all of you, I know you got him. I know you got him picked. I’m gonna show you how great I am. And every time I hear it, I just imagine myself in that moment. And so I’m curious to know, in your own personal development of self-confidence in studying, does visualization play a huge part in this process as well? Affirmations are awesome and amazing. Do you also visualize

Dr. Ivan Joseph (08:17):

A hundred percent? I’m a, as a sports psychologist, I’m a big believer in visualization. Hmm. Let me teach you, let me talk to you a little bit about a study that what I teach my students. They, they went in and they tested downhill skiers. They put these electrodes onto their busts so that they could see when they were going through the gates and down a mountain, how would the muscles fire? And they were in their lab, and they could see, okay, the, this one fires at this amplitude. Oh, when he’s turning this quad fires, this arm goes, here’s where they relax when they go on the straightaway. And it was amazing, right? This was like, wow. Then they said, okay. Then they took those same skiers, and they said, now, just watch yourself going down. Right? And as they were watching themselves going down, they hooked up their muscles, and they found that their muscles still fired.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (09:01):

Not at the same level, of course mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but they were still firing significantly less, but in the same pattern, in the same racial as they were watching themselves go down that mountain. Then they said, close your eyes and imagine yourself going down the mountain as they close their eyes and imagine themselves going down the mountain again, their muscles still fired in that same pattern, that same frequency, not the same level of amplitude as when they were watching it, but in the same place. So what that was saying is that we are rehearsing that our mind could transfer that energy and that pattern of learning to our muscles, even just by imagining it. The power of visualization is a strong piece. I like to visualize, visualize everything that I’m doing, every little scenario, what I’m coaching, when I’m teaching, when I’m leading, I want to know what I’m going to do. I want to imagine what success looks like. I also wanna imagine what an adversity or a roadblock would look like, so that I have my plan in place so that I’m ready. And I’m not, I’m not panicked. I’m not frozen. Right? I don’t imagine just the great things. I do try to spend some time not imagining when things go wrong, but imagining what my plan of action will be in case things go wrong, so that I can see my way still to victory.

Sam Demma (10:17):

So powerful. When I think back to my own soccer days and the athletes that I had four of my teammates now play in the mls mm-hmm. <affirmative>, the ones who succeeded all had a, a super drive. Like they just all wanted to, you know, play soccer every single day. But I found really interesting was they all watched hours upon hours of soccer. They were obsessed with following every different league that exists in Europe and in Canada and the us. Does watching somebody else kick a ball also fire the same pathways in your brain that you would fire if you were kicking a ball? Like, does visualization also work when you watch somebody else do it?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (10:58):

I will say this the psychology behind is what you’re asking is the social learning theory by a gentleman by the name of Bandura. Right? And so what they will say is that you can learn through observation. This is what, like, you think about this whole YouTube world. Everybody watches YouTube and they learn how to do things before, back in the day. You have to go and watch somebody apprentice with them, learn all those things. So for sure, I, I can’t speak to whether the muscles are firing the same way, but I can say that you can learn through observation, especially if somebody is telling you what to look for. Look at the angle of the leg, look at the, look at the way the angle is locked. Look at how they land on their plant foot. And so you’re saying now you’re watching the things to look for, and now you can go back and mimic those same behaviors and model them in a way that will ensure success.

Sam Demma (11:48):

Hmm. No, I like that. And you just even alluded to some points in your TED talk, by the way, when you talked about planting the foot and leaning forward knee over the ankle, you talk about the importance of catching people while they’re good. This can be used from a management perspective. It can be used from a coaching perspective. You know, the importance of encouraging someone’s positive actions instead of coaching their negative ones. Yeah. That idea. Do you also use it for yourself? So in moments where you maybe didn’t have the performance that you expected, instead of focusing on all the things that went wrong, you focus on the one or two things that went right. Is that something you could also use personally?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (12:25):

Absolutely. I, I think it’s really important. What I use even more than that though, is about focusing on the positives, which is nice. I also say, what am I here to learn? Hmm. When things go south, when they don’t go where I want them to do, I wanna focus on what did it teach me? What are the teachable moments? Because as well as focusing on what went wrong, right? Or what went right, that’s great. Okay, what went right? I also need to think about the gap. Hmm. And, and that gap is, okay, what am I here to learn? And I’m not focusing on the negatives. I’m focusing on the teachable moments when I’m looking at myself. And if I can think of everything as a learning opportunity that prepares me for the next one, and that prepares me for the next one, then I don’t get caught up on the negativity. I get caught up on the teachable moments of that failure. And that’s, for me, key to moving forward.

Sam Demma (13:14):

And you have to stay open-minded, right? Yeah. That op, being someone who’s open-minded will give you opportunity to look at yourself objectively and take that feedback and use it to, to grow. Sometimes we get feedback and it, it, it hurts our ego because, you know, everyone has an ego. They care what people think. is there a difference between ego and confidence? Can you explain the difference? and especially for like young people that use a ton of social media and feel the need to validate themselves. Like, I just wanna know if there’s a bit a difference between ego and, and real confidence.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (13:52):

For sure. And let me go back, because the piece that will feed this is that feedback part when you said, sometimes we get negative feedback and it impacts our, our ego. So recognize that there’s two types of feedback. One is negative and one is critical. Hmm. Negative feedback. What’s wrong? Why it didn’t work? This idea is not good. You didn’t do this, you didn’t do this. You need to come back. Negative critical feedback. Here’s why I don’t think it’s gonna work. have you tried this? This is not good. Have you tried this, this, and this? Hey, I think you missed it. Here’s what I was looking for. Hmm. And so the difference is what’s wrong, but opportunities or avenues for you to go in a different direction. They’re giving you advice. And so that’s really, that’s really key for you to recognize that if somebody’s giving you critical feedback, they’re invested in you.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (14:41):

As I used to tell all my people when I’m coaching you and I’m giving you critical feedback, the willingness of me to expend energy on you means that I believe that, that you can deliver more, and that you’re capable and you have the potential to excel. When I’m not giving you any feedback, you should be worried because I don’t think you’ve got any more to give, and you’ve reached your ceiling. So that’s the first part. The second part is how does it not affect your ego? And when, what’s the difference between ego and confidence? Ego? Is this me telling everybody else how great I am? Mm-hmm. Look at me, look at me, folks. I’m a champion. I’m good. Think about it. When you’re in grade school, Sam, and you’re in the playground, or, or it was that track and field day, and you gotta do the three-legged race or the ball toss or high jump, or the hundred meter sprint.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (15:28):

And you win your first, your second, your third, whatever your ribbons are they used to give you. And do you put them on? And do you walk around the schools like, look at me. Look, I won the first place in the ball toss. I’m a three-legged race champion. Yeah. Ooh, no. The confident person doesn’t need anybody to know how good they are. All right. You put those ribbons in your bag and you go home at night, you put ’em on and in front of the mirror, you say, yes, I’m awesome. That is okay. Cuz you still should tell yourself you’re awesome. You should still remind yourself of how great you are, just egotistically. You don’t need to shout it to everybody else.

Sam Demma (16:06):

Sometimes you’ll have a belief in yourself that other people don’t see. And I know you’ve had firsthand experience with this, with a player on your team when you were coaching, who at first it seemed like this player was not gonna fit in and not going to excel, but that person’s self-belief propelled them forward. And if I’m not mistaken, became the captain of your team and went to a national championship with you guys. Yes. Yes. how do you cultivate that amount of belief in yourself when other people might not agree with you?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (16:40):

That’s a really good piece. So part of it is you’ve gotta make sure when other people don’t believe in you. And so you’re getting it from the left on all, you know, you gotta make sure you’re having other places where you’re getting the opposite, right? Because if you’re bombarded with your mom telling you you’re no good, and your brother and sister telling you’re no good, and at work they’re telling you no good and your boyfriend or girlfriend are telling you good, no good and all the media’s telling, then it’s gonna beat you up. And so you’ve gotta make sure that, let’s say it’s the coach, then you’re surrounding yourself with other people who are able to counter that voice, that you’re also making sure that you’ve written your letter to yourself, where you’re reading your confident thoughts, that you’re also using your affirmations, but most importantly, that you’re also working towards the goal diligently with great effort to close the gap.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (17:31):

Cuz it’s no magic button. You can’t just show up. A coach says I’m no good, and then the next day I just show up and expect a different result. He also gotta put in the work. And if you’ve put in the work and the repetition and the effort, good things will happen. They always do. But at the same time, Sam, you never know, just like you just didn’t make it as a professional athlete because of injury or whatever. Hopefully you’ve got the right people around you that will tell you when it’s the opportunity is right for you to pivot and go in a different direction.

Sam Demma (18:02):

No, I love that. And I think it’s so important. Who we surround ourselves with matters greatly. I think it was Jim Rowan who said, you become the average of the five people you spend the most time with. Yes.

Sam Demma (18:12):

Why is that important? You know, I remember when I was a soccer player, my coach always used to tell me before I asked for the ball, Sam, make sure you check your shoulders <laugh>. And I remember in the middle of the game, and you probably preach this to your players all the time, I played in the midfield. And so I’m looking behind me to check my shoulders and I don’t check. And as I turn around, someone comes and sly tackles me and my left leg. And that’s when I tore my meniscus in my left knee the second time. And I remember after, you know, years went by, I realized what a great analogy check your shoulders is for life. You know, how often do we turn around and say, who am I surrounding myself with? and if you don’t do it, you know, in life, just like in sports, if you don’t check and you turn around randomly one day, there’s, there might be some people there that shouldn’t be there and it might be causing you problems. So why do you think it’s so important to be aware of who we surround ourselves with?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (19:01):

Well, we know that in sport and in psychology, that emotion is contagious. Hmm. And so think about that. When you’re in a, when you’re in a dressing room, I could walk into a dressing room and I know when a team is on, you could feel it in the air. Hmm. You can feel it, you can cut it with a knife. Also, I can tell when one person gets angry, how that can just run through the entire room or panic or whatever that might be, or excitement or energy. We don’t know. Whatever that’s pheros, whether that’s hormones, what that is. But this science is, is irrefutable that, that we can catch the mood of other people. Hmm. And so when I think about that, I think about the group that I’m speaking with or hanging out with. Do they push me? Are they good for me?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (19:46):

Are they good to me? Are they drivers? Are they, are they ones? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what? You’re right. When somebody comes and gives you hard news, yeah, I can’t believe that coach doesn’t believe in me. I can’t that believe that boss didn’t gimme the opportunity. And they’ll say, yeah, you’re right Sam, you deserve it. I can’t believe it. You were robbed. Or do they say, Sam, you didn’t do what you were supposed to do. You know what? You should have delivered it like this. You need to go back. Do they push you up or do they tear you down? Hmm. Do they allow you to live in that self-belief of I’m a victim? Or do they say, no, we could do better? And you think about those kinds of people and how do you separate the weak from the chaff?

Sam Demma (20:28):

I think, I think catching other people’s emotions could be even more dangerous than catching the flu

Dr. Ivan Joseph (20:35):

<laugh>. Oh, a hundred percent. They will, it will limit you

Sam Demma (20:39):

And it holds you back because like you explained, you know, your beliefs lead to your emotions, emotions to actions, actions to results. And if those, if those beliefs change because of the people you’re hanging out with, it changes literally everything else. It’s like a domino effect. Yes. I spend a lot of time hanging around people who don’t take no for an answer. <laugh>. And I know you’re one of those people and I remember you watching your TED talk as well, and you know, you asked out your, your wife for the first time you know, and she said no. And then her friend came back and told you, you know, there’s a small chance that if the world was falling apart and <laugh> and you know, we need to recreate to save humanity, then, then, you know, maybe we could, you know, maybe it would work. And, and you said, well, there’s a chance <laugh> and you kept going. Right. now maybe you could, you could share a little bit about where that beliefs was built for you. Cause I believe all of our beliefs come from past experiences, like where that belief came from that you didn’t take no for an answer. and maybe even how I reached out to you and what you thought

Dr. Ivan Joseph (21:44):

<laugh>. Oh my gosh. You know, it’s interesting. You know, first off, I’m an immigrant, right? I was born in, in Guyana, south America. My parents came to Canada when they’re 27 years old. Hmm. And so, you know, and immigrants have a very common theme that run through them, meaning work twice as hard, be twice as good. Yeah. Right. You know, like that, that your parents have drilled that into you, your grandparents have drilled that into you. And so you know that the opportunities that you have that will come your way, you gotta fight for. And I saw it in my mother and I saw it in my father. And so those were two, two role models for me that really helped put that behavior of twice as hard, twice as good, twice as like always mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so, you know, after a while people are gonna say no.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (22:28):

And so you gotta just decide what are you gonna do. You can either feel sorry for yourself or you can try again. You can try. And then when you get a little bit of success, then it creates this pattern of belief in yourself that allows you to keep going. Right. And again, I wasn’t stalking my wife, so I don’t want anybody out there to think, oh my gosh, this guy’s a creepy old man. Right? Yeah. It’s like, oh, let me try again. Right. She, you know, if she let me see. Right. And there’s nothing wrong with thinking that there’s another opportunity to try something different perhaps, whatever that might look like. You know, I, you know, you are a perfect example, Sam. I was not, you know, there’s a certain level of podcast that my partner sends me on Sonny’s like, okay, how many followers do they have?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (23:05):

Will it elevate the brand? All these things? Is this the message they want to go on? Right. And here you are a young whipper snipper, and you were persistent, right? You were, you didn’t take no financial, you came back and you didn’t come back the same way, which is an important piece. You came back with some, you did your homework, you were creative, you sent this message, this video that you were compelling. How could we not say yes to somebody who cared and was so intentional and put so much effort and time into preparing his pitch? We had no intention of saying yes, but you compelled us so that we could not say, no,

Sam Demma (23:45):

I’m writing a chapter in a book right now, it’s gonna be called Dear High School Me. And it’s like, it’s like lessons from my younger self from someone not far removed from high school. And your reach out is gonna be one of the chapters <laugh>. And you know, the whole lesson is that when we’re all little kids, I think it was before the age of four, we hear the word no a couple thousand times and it gets ingrained in our body. You know, we, we fall off the counter and you know, or hopefully you don’t fall off the counter, but <laugh>, you know, something happens and your parents say, oh no, don’t do that. And we associate no with never again. Yeah. No means never. And I’m trying to help people understand that. No, doesn’t mean never when you hear the word no. Although, like you said, there are some situations where no means no and don’t cross that boundary. Yes.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (24:31):

Thank you. Thank

Sam Demma (24:32):

You. Outside of those situations, <laugh> no, doesn’t mean never. It actually means how can you show this person that you care, build trust, and be more creative in your reach out? Yes. And every time that I’ve changed my approach whether it’s with you or other situations I’ve gotten, you know, great responses and, and great results. do you have any examples in your life aside from, from the relationship that you discuss in your TEDx talk where someone initially told you no and things thereafter maybe slightly changed?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (25:05):

Yeah, I think, and I think your point is really strong and make sure your audience knows we’re not talking about consent. Yeah. So let’s put that over there. Yeah. We’re talking in the business world that there’s always an opportunity to get your foot in the door. And so when I was, when I wanted to be a coach, I didn’t get the job. They said no a bunch of times. So you know what I did? I volunteered, I worked for free. And a month before or two weeks before the season started, the coach left and they were stuck. They didn’t have anybody else. They paid me less than the scholarship of my athletes. So as the head coach, I was the lowest paid person on that team, but I didn’t care. Yeah. All I wanted was an opportunity. And when I got the opportunity, I took the most of it.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (25:51):

I worked like a dog. We won the conference championship that year. We were 13 and one first ever championship they ever won. I was the conference coach of the year. Right. So recognized that, you know, no meant not yet. But what did I do while they said no? I went and got the coaching courses, I went and got the coaching license. I read this book about coaching. I spent an and learned this about coaching. I watched games on TV to learn and do everything I could. So when the opportunity gave me a small crack, I was ready to take advantage of it.

Sam Demma (26:25):

I love that. So powerful. And you talk about this in your summit, the speech you did, I think it was for jack.org back in May 5th, 2020. A young lady asked you the question, you know, how do you, how do you find what you love doing? There’s so many different, you know, opportunities available and there’s so many different options and you gave some awesome advice about, you know, maybe you volunteer and you know, that’s how it started. For you, what is your advice around helping, you know, maybe students or young people find what they’re good at or what they love doing?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (26:56):

I say we all know what we love because it’s the thing that we do. And all of a sudden time flies. Mm. In sports psychology, we call it flow. When have you ever done something, it’s like, oh my gosh, I can’t believe that. Like, where did the hour go? Yeah. Whether that’s reading a book, whether that’s playing your hockey, playing your game, like, my gosh, what are those activities that put you in the state of flow that you look forward to doing and you can’t wait? You know what they are? Put a make a list of them. When I, when that was asked for me, what do I volunteer to do? And I couldn’t believe it was soccer. You can’t make a living as a soccer coach. This is 25 years ago. I tell you that, that soccer coach led to me being and making a ton of money, which I never wanted to do. That wasn’t the reason I was driven towards it. But what happens is, when you do what you love, excellence happens. And when you become the best at what you do, people are willing to pay for the, for that service. And so, I I just remind you that even though you think, well, I can’t make a living doing what you love, there’s always a way.

Sam Demma (28:03):

I think it’s Russell Brunson, this guy who does a lot of internet marketing, he started a company called ClickFunnels. He, he started a business teaching people how to make potato launchers <laugh>. And this is the first thing he did. And, and I remember just reading it in one of his books, expert Secrets, him talking about there’s almost some market or an opportunity in every single field. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> what matters is how much you’re willing to give of your time, your effort, your energy towards becoming a master in that thing. Because there’s no, there’s no, there’s no job position just waiting for you. Sure there’s jobs out there, but I think you create it through your actions that you take every single day, day in and day out. Yes. and you’ve created a wonderful career for yourself. And I want to take this interview down a professional route for a second.

Sam Demma (28:53):

Yeah. Over the, over the past four years, I’ve been obsessed with helping students become real world ready, trying to figure out what makes a high performing young person. And based on my own personal success and conversations that I’m having with, you know, phenomenal humans like yourself, I’m taking this assumption and I’m putting it to the test. and so I wanna test this assumption here with you today. There’s six characteristics. All I wanna know is, do you think this thing was foundational to your success? And how did you develop it over the past couple of years? so here’s the first one, and you’re already someone who does this day in and day out for your job, but it’s professional and persuasive communication. So I believe that a high performing student, performer, athlete, whoever it is, has to have the ability to effectively share ideas with others that not only inform them, but inspire them to move into action. And you speak all around the world. So is professional communication something that has been foundational to your success? And how did you develop it as a skill?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (29:52):

A hundred percent. Right. Persuasive communication. And I will say it this way, I would put the other side of that as well. And maybe you have it in one of your six. It’s not just persuasive communication, it’s also empathetic communication. Hmm. Persuasive and empathetic because empathetic in insinuates that I’m listening and I’m hearing and I’m able to speak to the things that matter and resonate with the people. Hmm. And that is really key. Right. Because you can’t be persuasive if you don’t know what matters to the other person. I love that. Okay. So how did I put, how did I get when I was a teacher, when I was a professor, I probably did four or five different one hour lectures a day for 10 years.

Sam Demma (30:34):

Yep.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (30:35):

So I got to be really good repetition, repetition, repetition, <affirmative> repetition.

Sam Demma (30:40):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> and variation. I’m sure you’re giving different lectures all the time, which helps you

Dr. Ivan Joseph (30:45):

All the time. All the time. And I never wrote ’em down. I’ve studied them, but I wanted them to be authentic and novel. And so, and I evaluated that didn’t work. That was no good. Okay. This was really good. Let me, let me do this part again.

Sam Demma (30:59):

Love that. Okay. That’s phenomenal. And thank you for the the additional feedback. If anything that I mentioned sparks a new idea or an extended version of the principle, please share. the second assumption is that these people have the trait of taking care of their mental and physical health, meaning they exercise their mind and their body. Yeah. Has that been something that’s been foundational to your success? And how did you develop the habit of exercising, meditating, and all these amazing actions that we should all take?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (31:29):

Yeah, and I like that you said meditating because that’s that mental, that’s the physical, it’s the spiritual. And so work-life balance is really important. I think that we recognize that, you know, we must work hard, we must work hard. That’s the only way to get ahead. But if you don’t shut it down, if you don’t restore, you don’t get the great ideas. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so that’s a really important piece. And so I haven’t gone out to say, I love to exercise. I don’t work out for the sake of working out. I play, I get my workout through play. Love it. Whether that’s playing on a soccer league, whether that’s whitewater canoeing, that’s, whether that’s playing squash, that’s my jam. But that’s my space for flow. Recognize that your workout might be something completely different. Don’t think that if you’re not doing physical exercise, you’re not good. Your workout might be mental. Just you’re the puzzle person. You’re the crossword person. What it is, is a thing that allows you to get to that stage where you restore and regenerate your soul and your spirit. So I really believe that’s a key principle.

Sam Demma (32:26):

I love that. I love that analogy too, that everyone gets it a little bit differently from different sources. One of the criticisms I had of a lot of self-help books were that they tell you that you have to wake up at a specific hour in the morning and do these three specific exercises in this row, and you’ll have a successful life. And I think it’s so false, right? We all have a goal in a morning routine to feel a specific type of emotion Yeah. Or to cultivate a specific type of belief. And there’s so many different activities that you could do to help you attain that goal. and I think it also applies like you’re saying to mental and physical wellbeing. So I love that. The third the third assumption is emotional intelligence. So these are, these are performers. These are people who are aware of how they feel and can give themselves a little bit of space to recognize the emotion and take action to support that emotion or despite the emotion. So you know how to say no properly, how to say yes. how to understand how other people are feeling in relation to a situation. I think there’s a ton of different definitions of emotional intelligence, but we’ll just define it as being self-aware. has that been foundational? And how did you develop that awareness?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (33:38):

Well, that’s a, you know, I don’t know how I developed it, but I, I think what I call is emotional awareness or intelligence. I call it insights. Mm. right. The ability to read the room, the ability to pick up when you’re being too much or too little, or when to walk away, when to push, when to just let this person have their moment because it’ll avoid a conflict. And that’s time for another conversation. You know, I think one of the things is in order to have insight, you have to be reflective. You have to really evaluate, well, that went wrong, or, I did really well there, what happened? Because I don’t know if you can read a book and say, this is who I am. But I think if you’re really insightful, you start to reflect on where you screwed up, where you hit it out of the park, ah, I didn’t get what I needed. Let me try it this way next time. And that’s how you acquire that level of emotional intelligence.

Sam Demma (34:30):

Hmm. I love that you talk about it in your book, or was it the interview with Louis? Hows the, the gut feelings, right? Yes. and you mentioned that when you shy away from those or act despite those little, you know, those little voices in your head or those gut feelings, that things typically go wrong

Dr. Ivan Joseph (34:48):

Every time,

Sam Demma (34:49):

Still holds true.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (34:50):

Every, every single time. It usually ends up costing me more money. Makes me unhappier gives me great frustration. Yeah.

Sam Demma (34:58):

Cool. Very cool. <laugh> love that. fourth assumption is that these, these students are grounded in the present moment, meaning they take lots of action daily mm-hmm. <affirmative>, but they do have goals and a vision that they’re working towards. So they have a future focus. I’m, I’m assuming from day one you wrote things down on paper and, you know, had goals and visions for yourself before anyone else even believed in you. but is that something that you think has been foundational to your progress and success And, and what, what made you from day one, grab a pen and paper and start writing things down that you wanted to happen in the future, if you can remember?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (35:33):

Well, yeah, I’ll say it wasn’t from day one. It was after I flunked out and was embarrassed and was ashamed and he was humiliated and I needed to start over. And when I needed to start over, I said, well, what am I gonna change? What am I gonna move and how am I gonna respond and react to this? So hitting rock bottom and reacting to failure, put me in this path. And then I started writing one year goals, three to five year goals and 10 year goals. I always do my, my goals in those three buckets, right. Because I want to have a long-term plan so I know where I’m going. You know, if I want to be a college university president, I better sit on a university panel that searches what they look like now. So in 10 years I can see what they’re looking for. I have time to start prepping myself. Mm. When I wanted to be a L’Oreal vice president, you know what I needed to get certain skills, I better start getting those skills now. So three years from now, I’m ready for when the opportunity comes. And so I’m a big believer in writing down your goals and not just your long-term ones and, but your short-term ones, but here’s the key, Sam, not too many. Mm-hmm. Because then you won’t become an expert in anything.

Sam Demma (36:41):

Yeah. It’s like the whole idea of don’t go a mile wide. Go a mile deep. Yes. and ah, it’s so true. And I hear it so much over and over again, and I love it. It’s such an important thing to remind yourself of. perfect. The fifth characteristic is building strong habits. Right? Excellence comes not from what we do once, but what we do day in and day out, even when we don’t feel like it. Do you think that habits have played a huge part in your life? Or do you act more sporadically? and has that been foundational to your success?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (37:15):

Well, I’ll say it this way, I wouldn’t say it’s habits. Okay. Right. I would say it’s values. Hmm. The values drive my consistent response and behavior to things. Cool. And so, because you know how they, I’ve tried 30 days to find a habit, 30 days to be, I like I, I tried to work out or be a vegetarian for 30 days. They’re they 31, thank God that’s over. Yeah. Right. I work out, I work out, I work out. I did 30 days of pushup, 40 days of pushup. Soon as I missed three days in a row, that habit’s gone. Yeah. Right. And so that is the one I’ll say that I struggle with. And it doesn’t mean it’s right, but I will say that habits are typically something that are about behavior. Mm. And what drives behavior for me isn’t habits, it’s values. Mm. And that is the key. And what I mean by values is you’re the core beliefs about who I am, what I’m about.

Sam Demma (38:06):

I love that. So key, so important. And I think, I think back to a situation that didn’t align with my values, that forced me to make a decision out of a couple things. I think of a relationship that I had that I, that I recently ended. I think about a speaker agent who, a speaker agency who at first I had written down, you know, I’m gonna be represented by these people and I’m super excited. And then they approached me with the contract and the terms totally did not, not align with my values or the vision I created for myself. And there was this internal conflict that just stirred up in me. And right away I was questioning everything <laugh>. And I had everyone in my life telling me, you have to do this and you have to do that, and you should do this. And then I couldn’t sleep at night knowing that it, I was about to go against that gut voice that I had. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. so I think knowing what your values are and taking actions based on those and in alignment with those is what’s really important. Is what you’re saying. Yeah.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (39:04):

For

Sam Demma (39:05):

Me. Okay. Yeah. No, I totally agree. I love that the, the fifth, the fifth, the sixth, the sixth characteristic that I believe is super important is being a perpetual learner. So someone who is one, always open to feedback, cuz you’re gonna learn from feedback, but two, reading consuming information, whether it’s podcasts, books, speeches you know, even something like this kind of sparked the idea at the, at the end of your book, you have a list of your favorite reads, and I think there’s six or seven books listed there. I think perpetual learners are people who read one book and then have six more that get added to their list, <laugh> Yes. That they wanna read in the future. do you think that that’s been foundational in your success? And how did you cultivate that desire to want to learn? It’s a lot easier to grab a b a bag of Lay’s chips and watch Netflix all day. <laugh>

Dr. Ivan Joseph (39:54):

No, you’re still, I, I’m glad this one is last because this is the one that needs to stick. Hmm. Right. you, I say often when I coach soccer, sometimes I win. Most times I learn. Hmm. Right. And, and this is the key, right? Learning helps sets you up for success if you’re willing to approach it really in a student-centric perspective. Meaning I’m here to learn not just from reading a book, not just from watching a podcast, but in every single aspect and interaction that you have. I remember watching a Disney movie, oh, I love the way he said this about Simba and leadership. How can I employ that to my soccer game? I remember watching and reading Graham Henry’s book on legacy from the New Zealand, all Blacks. How am I gonna use this about how I build culture? We can’t learn enough and learning should never stop. I think about all my great mentors, some of them are 70, 80 years old and all the work they’re doing, and you know, in the old days it used to be just reading books. But in today’s world, it’s YouTube, it’s podcast, it’s Instagram, wherever it is. But make it an f make it a a thing for you to do and make it a part of your routine.

Sam Demma (41:07):

Hmm. I love that. And was that desire cultivated in you because you came to a realization that you wanted to know more, you wanted to learn more. Was it, was it a teacher that prompted you to it or was it because you failed? Like, because like, I tell students this all the time, but sometimes the switch doesn’t go off. And I’m curious to know what the trigger is to help someone understand like, learning is, is, is necessary <laugh>, you know, it’s needed.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (41:32):

Well, I’ve got intrinsic motivation, meaning I always want to be the best. Cool. And in order to be the best, I I don’t need to reinvent the wheel. Yeah. Who else has done this and what can I learn in order to expedite my learning, my advancement, my progress? Because I could still do it, but what might take 10 years of me trial and error. I could shorten the one year by somebody’s teachable moments. And I think that’s really important. And if you’re not a book reader, then find a mentor and apprentice because that learning can happen the same way, maybe even better.

Sam Demma (42:06):

I often say mentorship is probably the, the lost form of teaching. Maybe watch it in movies, whether it’s Star Wars with OB one Kenobi or the Karate Kid, Mr. Miyagi. Right. so that’s awesome that you’re, you’re enthusiastic about that. Yeah. Those are the six As, those are my six principles, six assumptions. I’m curious to know, and I’m not gonna put you on the spot if one doesn’t come to mind, but is there anything that you would instantly add to that list?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (42:32):

Yeah, I think the, for me it’s that whole thing about you are steeped in grit and resilience. Hmm. Meaning how you respond to f failure setbacks, you know, that’s my jam. Whether you call it confidence, whether you call it mental toughness, resiliency, grit, hardiness. But that is a key piece that should be part of your mantra because whether you like it or not, you could be as, as insightful and as persuasive as you want. You will experience failure as you progress through life. And your response to that, your coping mechanism will really determine whether you continue on your path or you jump off and you give up.

Sam Demma (43:11):

I love it. No, that’s awesome. And you have a course coming out for students? I think, I believe it’s coming out in the spring or sometime in the future. Yeah. what, what is it all about? Tell us more. if you’re listening, tell the listener where they could find it as well.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (43:26):

Sure. the Skill of Self-Confidence masterclass, if you go on my website, dr ivan joseph.com, you can go ahead and there’ll be a time where you’ll sign up for that. And I think it’s coming out this spring, I should know that sort of stuff. <laugh> or you, if you were just saying, you know what, I’d just rather learn about this confidence. I don’t wanna join and pay money for a class go to dr ivan joseph.com front slash confidence and you could download a a workbook, 15 steps to self-confidence free workbook for you.

Sam Demma (43:54):

And if you’re wondering, I’ve downloaded it as well for the, for the listener, and it’s phenomenal. So definitely check it out. Ton of great gold in there. Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s good stuff. And if someone just wants to connect with you or maybe even ask a question what would be the best way for them to do so?

Dr. Ivan Joseph (44:09):

You know, you can find me in all the socials. @DrIvanJoseph is my handle on Instagram. @DrIvanJoseph is my handle on Twitter, so I’m out there LinkedIn, anyone. And I’m happy to respond and, and give any feedback that you folks might want.

Sam Demma (44:24):

You talk about an Apple video that was featured, I believe it was 1966 and 97 97. That’s my, that’s my dad’s birthday. I shouldn’t forget that one. <laugh>. <laugh>, you know, here’s to the crazy ones, the misfits, the troublemakers. I just wanna say I hold you to that regard and yeah. This was phenomenal. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this, and I look forward to continue reading your books as you publish them and taking some of your courses in the future.

Dr. Ivan Joseph (44:52):

Thanks, Sam, appreciate it. You did a great job. Thanks for having me.

Sam Demma (44:55):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Dr. Ivan Joseph

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Hoi Leung – Principal of Pickering High School

Hoi Leung – Principal of Pickering High School
About Hoi Leung

Hoi Leung is the principal of Pickering High School in the Durham District School Board. He has been teaching for over 25 years and determined he wanted to work in education during his last year of University. While helping to tutor his friends at University, Hoi uncovered his passion for teaching, and the rest is history.

Connect with Hoi: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Pickering High School

Durham District School Board

Science and Business – University of Waterloo

Faculty of Education – Queens University

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Hoi Leung. Hoi is the Principal of Pickering High School in the Durham District School Board. He has been teaching for over 25 years and determined he wanted to work in education during his last year of University. He has a background in engineering before in his second year, switching into a slightly different career path which brought him to where he is today in education. It started while tutoring and helping to tutor his friends in University where Hoi uncovered his passion for teaching, and the rest became his history. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Hoi, and I will see you on the other side. Hoi, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Pleasure to have you on the show here today. Please start by introducing yourself.

Hoi Leung (00:51):

Hi, my name is Hoi Leung. I am the Principal of Pickering High School in the Durham District School Board. I’ve been teaching for about 25 years, and yeah, that’s about, that’s about it.

Sam Demma (01:02):

When did you realize growing up as a student yourself, that education was the, the career for you, the thing you wanted to pursue?

Hoi Leung (01:10):

Well, actually I didn’t realize education as a career until going into my last year of university. So my university journey was actually, I started with engineering, mechanical engineering at Waterloo. And it didn’t really play out for me. I guess it didn’t like me as opposed to me not liking it. And I switched programs after second year into a program called Science of Business. And so when I was in science of business, I was, I guess trained to become a, either a laboratory manager or a pharmaceutical rep. And then going into my last year my friends asked me if I ever thought of teacher’s college, and I said, no, I didn’t. And then, so I looked into it and took a few courses and, and got into a program at Queens University. And then, and then the rest is history. I became a teacher.

Sam Demma (01:58):

Take me back to the moment you decided in fourth year university, this is something I wanna pursue wherever you at, at that stage in your life. what helped you make that decision? And then also what did the journey look like that brought you to where you are today?

Hoi Leung (02:14):

Yeah, so when I was in going to fourth year, I obviously I set switch programs already and and a lot of friends what was happening was I was helping a lot of friends out in terms of tutoring them in terms of the program that we’re in. And then I looked back into my in my childhood and what happened was, in high school I was actually tutoring a lot of friends in math and sciences and didn’t realize I was just pretty much doing what I was doing in, in in teaching. And so when somebody said to said to me, well, what, what about teachers college? I never thought about it as a profession. And and then went into it and just decided that’s where I was gonna go. And and ever since then I started coaching. I coach a lot of volleyball. I’ve been coaching volleyball since 1996. Oh, and and so coaching and teaching are pretty much the same, same type of style in terms of, of of a career.

Sam Demma (03:08):

Tell me about the similarities. When you think about coaching and you think about teaching, what are the similarities you draw from the two? And how has sport kind of impacted your educational journey as well?

Hoi Leung (03:20):

Well the similarities are actually very much the same. Not even similar, they’re the same. you know, you, you have to assess the students to see where they, they start from. I mean, so when I coach volleyball you know, everybody starts at a different level. it is just like in a classroom. There, there, there, there’s students that are, are high achievers students that are starting at a, at a beginning point. So when I, when I do practices, I have to obviously tailor to different entry points for everybody. So somebody to like may, may not even know how to handle volleyball versus somebody that knows how to handle volleyball. So I have to do the drills where everybody’s successful. And then of course from there we, we try to make everybody successful and not bored.

Hoi Leung (04:00):

And then always active. teaching’s pretty much the same. in terms of when I first started my career, I was in elementary school. now I’m in high school, but I, I’m one of the few teachers that have done elementary and high school. So I’ve taught both. And elementary school is I’d be honest, is a lot tougher because again, when the students are coming in, they’re all at different levels or different ranges. high school is a bit more I guess more I guess they’re more, they’re different levels in high school, you know, grade nine, there is a grade nine level, there’s a grade. Well, in elementary school there’s a, a varied level in terms of things. So, so elementary school, you, you have to, like I said do a diagnostic. I mean, I’m using terms obviously, sorry, but it’s, you kinda assess students where they are, and then hopefully you challenge the ones that are, that get it.

Hoi Leung (04:51):

And you, you, you help the ones that don’t get it and, and then get ’em to a medium point. A high school, a high school level is a bit easier because you, if you take grade nine math, you know, everybody, there’s a curriculum that everybody has to maintain in order to get a credit. So it’s credit based in high school while elementary school it isn’t credit based. So, so that’s the difference I find. And with coaching, it’s the same thing. You, you find you know, you’ve got house league volleyball, you got rep volleyball you’ve got club volleyball, you’ve got regional program, provincial program, university program. So, so I tailor, I guess my teaching, my coaching based on what level I’m, I’m I’m, I’m at. So I’ve I’ve done all that. I’ve, I’ve done university, I was a university level coach provincial level coach, regional level coach, club level coach. And even I, I even coach elementary school, which is kind of funny, <laugh>. So I’ve done the whole gamut from grade four to university level.

Sam Demma (05:43):

Did you also play volleyball growing up? Was that a sport that you loved or what got you into volleyball?

Hoi Leung (05:48):

Yes. so volleyball was one of the first sports that I played. so going way back I wasn’t born in Canada. I was born in Hong Kong. Okay. so I, I came to Canada in 1976. I was about six years old. And you know, back then, you know, my family was a typical immigrant family. my, my parents worked long hours, 12 hours a day. you know, I used to come home I used to call the latchkey kid if, if you, I don’t know if you know that term Sam, but it’s called Latch Key Kid, where we’d get a key, my brothers and I would go home on our own. And I mean, obviously back then it was accepted. Nowadays I’m, I’m sure you know, it’s not accepted in terms of having kids under 12, going home by themselves and starting all that.

Hoi Leung (06:29):

So, so I’m sure, I mean, you ask your parents, I don’t know what your background is, but I’m pretty sure it’s the same kind of routine. But so I was a latchkey kid. I used to come home and and my parents made sure that we came home right away. So so starting with sports I have to give credit to my older brother who, who did a lot of sports but wasn’t allowed to participate in any teams. Cause again, back in those days, you know the family rules where you come home right after school, you don’t, you don’t go, you don’t stick, stick around after school. So, so really, I had to, to figure out a way to, to join a team. And with my parents, I had to flip it where instead of telling them that I was trying to join a team, I had to tell them that the school had chosen me to be on this team <laugh>.

Hoi Leung (07:14):

So as soon as they were like, oh, well, the school chose to be on this team, then you better go and go for this team. Cause they don’t realize I had to volunteer to be chosen. But <laugh> was when I started in elementary school grade seven, eight. And then after that I played in high school and I played a lot in high school. And then and then during high school, I also played rugby. And so those were my, my two main sports was volleyball and rugby. And then when I went to Waterloo the joke I have is when I went to Waterloo, I was too small to play volleyball, but I was big enough to play varsity rugby. Ah. So I switched sports and I, and I played varsity rugby back in the early nineties when rugby wasn’t very popular. Now it’s now as popular as you know, a lot.

Hoi Leung (07:54):

But, so when I came outta university, I was a teacher. And and then back then in 95, 96, there was very little, very few jobs and we had to supply, and I started coaching volleyball and rugby at different schools. And and then then I went to a volleyball camp, started coaching there, and then pretty much it just went off from there from 96 onwards. And found early success in terms of coaching, club volleyball, you know, won won a national title then went on to provincial team won Canada Games went to University of Toronto, became assistant coach to Women’s Women’s Program, and won four Oua championships in a row as an assistant coach with that program. And then yeah, so that’s pretty much my journey with volleyball.

Sam Demma (08:39):

That’s amazing. And tell me more about the journey from where you started in education to where you are today. What are the different schools you worked in, school boards, positions? Give us a little insight into that journey as well.

Hoi Leung (08:52):

So I grew up in Toronto downtown Toronto, around Paper Danforth. So a lot of my friends were immigrants Greeks, Italians you name it. It was all a big mix back then. And so when I went to University, I went to a school called Danforth Tech, which is by Dan and Greenwood Avenue. So when I got outta university I decided to go to Durham believe it or not. so I went to Durham and started supplying there. And back in 95, 96 in Durham there was very, there was very little diversity in, in the, in the area. So I was one of the few teachers that were non-white. And, and it was a bit of a challenge for me. I mean, a lot of people, you know, you know, here, here I am, you know, my, my background is Chinese and they, they, you know, I, I was supplying down in South Oua, never seen a Chinese person before, kind of thing.

Hoi Leung (09:46):

It, it was kind rare. And so my journey was I started teaching there, supplying the people around me liked me. I started applying for jobs. unfortunately I wasn’t getting interviews, and I was getting very frustrated. And and I went back to my old high school, Danforth, and I was helping out coaching rugby there. And one of my coaches his name is John Juga. He, he said to me, have you ever thought of changing your name? And I thought to myself, I don’t understand what you mean by changing my name. I mean, it’s ho right? And they said, well, you know so my, my my, my teacher friend John Juga, his, his, he said, when he first started back in the eighties, his name was Giovanni, so his name was Giovanni. So he actually changed to John, and once he changed it to John, he started getting more interviews.

Hoi Leung (10:33):

So he said to me, have you ever thought of changing a name to like or adding a name like Henry or something like that? So instead of ho because unfortunately when people aren’t used to ethnic names, they, they look at the name Ho Liang, and they’re thinking, does, does he speak English? Does he not speak English? my my younger brother who’s born here, his name is Kevin Leon. So when you look at a resume you know, look at Hoy Young, Kevin Young, who would you, who would you interview, right? So, so he said that to me, and I said, you know, I, I thought to myself, no, I don’t wanna go down that road. So I, I stuck with, with Hoi Young, because I started supplying people obviously start to know who I was. And but unfortunately with, with, with teaching there is a lot of nepotism in teaching where, you know people, you know, hire their own cousins and their own siblings and all that kinda stuff.

Hoi Leung (11:22):

And with my background, my, you know, obviously my parents were, were blue, blue collar workers. They, they, they, we had no background. I have no friends or, or family that were teaching back then. So it took me quite a few, few years in order to get onto the board. And luckily what happened was you know, one of my principals, his name is Mel Barkwell, and he was a great guy. He took a chance on me and said, you know what, you know, he asked me what high school I looked up a resume. He goes, he goes for, yes. And he goes, goes, goes, you have two degrees. I go, go, yes. And he goes, wow, if you went to Dan for tech and you have two degrees, you can teach out here. No, no problem. Because cause he knew the school and he knew pretty tough school.

Hoi Leung (12:01):

And yeah. So that’s how I got started. And and then since then I was I went through the ranks and then, and then as I went through teaching, I I went to the board office as a, as a facilitator helping out other teachers in math programs. And then somebody asked, you know, are you, you have you looking into administration? I said, no, I haven’t. Didn’t they go, do you wanna try it? It was the same same principal that hired me Mel, he said to me you should look into it. So I went into it in 2008, became a vice principal. And even that journey was pretty tough because at that time, I was only, the only, I guess the only East Asian administrator in the board. Wow. For high school. actually, sorry, there was two others.

Hoi Leung (12:45):

There was Phil Massada and Keong Cho, there was three of us. but back in 2008, they, they talked about equity and, and they wanted to do a lot of equity hiring because the diversity became the board became more diverse. So I thought, okay, well, no problem. I should be at the cusp of it. And so 2008 I was a vice vice principal, and then after five years, I, I applied to be principalship in 2013. didn’t get on, you know, it wasn’t you know, wasn’t two disappointing. Cause my first try and I, I kept on trying and then, and then it became apparent that there was obviously a lot of political in, in any job. There’s a lot of politics involved. And and I didn’t get to become principal until 2019 when, I mean, 2019 that was when I put, was put on a short list. And then then I got, finally got placed at Pickton High School in thousand 20, 20 21. So it took me 13 years from VP to to principal, which is quite a long time because usually most people get, get on after five or six years. And and so I persevered, I got continued doing my job, and and now I’m the first and only Chinese high school principal in Durham District School Board. So that’s my

Hoi Leung (14:07):

<laugh>.

Sam Demma (14:08):

I, I’m, so, I’m so happy here that you didn’t use a different name. and I, I could only imagine how difficult it would’ve been when you were going through that situation, just personally thinking that you have to even change something about yourself to be accepted or given a better opportunity. And it’s so true that being a white person with a common name gives you this privilege or has in the past, and hopefully things are starting to change and shift with all the movements that are going on. but I’m so happy to hear that you didn’t change for anybody. And you, you remained who you were and pursued and are now here. And although it’s taken a long time, your, your, your story is hopefully one that’s gonna inspire more change and inspire other people to stand firm in who they are. thinking about diversity and inclusion and all the movements that are going on right now, how do you kind of see that changing the culture of the school you are in, or, you know, education as a whole? Are you, are you seeing a shift and what are your thoughts on

Hoi Leung (15:10):

Yeah, yeah, I do see a shift. I mean, the, the issue with education is once you get hired, pretty much, most teachers stay for about 30 years. So, so that’s why the change is very slow. So ah, I, I know as a principal, I am the position of hiring now. So I, I do recognize that when you’re looking at resumes, you’re looking at at different names and, and different backgrounds, and you’re looking at the resume. And I think when I first started teaching, a lot of people use the name as a, as a, as a, as a gatekeeper, the name, right? So, so for me, when I grew up, I grew up with a lot of people with different names in terms of Greek names, Italian names, you name it Indian names. So, so I look at resumes, the names don’t really scare me off.

Hoi Leung (15:56):

So, so I look at in fact, I just hired a teacher and and she went by the name of, of Jenna, which is kind of, so I looked at Jenna and I, and I try to look, and I looked at her I went to O C T, which is the Ontario College of Teachers, looked her up for qualifications just to double check, to verify. But her name wasn’t Jenna on the system, it was her name, the name was Janani. And I said to her, why did you put Jenna? And she goes, well, you know, people, you know, Janani. And so she pretty much, even to this day, I mean, she’s a young teacher probably around your age, she did the same thing. She, instead of janani, she, she changed the Jenna. I said, oh, no, just, just go by Janani.

Hoi Leung (16:32):

Don’t, don’t go by Jenna. I mean, this is, do that, right? And and I think it, it’s, it’s still pervasive where people are still doing that to try to Anglo size their names that were, were that were given to them. And but for me, like I said, when I look at resumes and so my hiring, I, I, I hired about 10 teachers last summer, and I would honestly say at least five of them with not more, were visible minorities. Mm. So, so the lens i I come with is, is different from from a, from a person that is not I guess that is, is considered white. Yeah. So my lens is different. So when I look at qualifications and names, the names don’t scare me or look at qualifications, look at background, and look at you know, where they taught, you know, that, that sort of thing. So, so I think with me in my position, I, I do have as a, as a duty bearer, I do have responsibilities in trying to diversify the teaching staff, because at, in high school, we do have a very diverse student population. And and so I can start off by hiring people that are more like the, the students. And, and I think students appreciate that.

Sam Demma (17:39):

Not to mention

Hoi Leung (17:40):

So does community too. Sorry.

Sam Demma (17:41):

Yeah. Not to mention the fact that you have a diverse staff gives you more diverse perspectives, makes the learning more rich for the students. Like you’re not just hearing one side of history, <laugh>. I think it’s so important that you have a diverse staff, not only for representation, but for authentic learning purposes. and I, it’s so cool to hear that you’re looking at it from that lens as well. I think it’s amazing. when you think about your journey throughout education, what are some resources that you personally found helpful? Maybe it’s people that have had a massive impact on you or books or courses or programs, things that maybe you experience that you think inform the beliefs you have around education and the way that you try and show up and teach and make a difference?

Hoi Leung (18:27):

I think the resources I have, and believe it or not, it’s, it’s interesting how some of the mentors I’ve had, and when I call them mentors, they’re, they’re, they’re older, obviously older educators, they were, they were actually older white men that you would think that were not as diverse in thinking, but they actually were. And I think, I think they were more instrumental because although they were older white men, they were actually more forward thinking than some, some teachers that are are, or some administrators that talk about you know, diversity and all these programs, they were actually doers as opposed to just talking about it. So for example you know, the, the principal that first hired me, Mel Barkwell, he hired a, a whole bunch of diverse staff just because he felt that’s the way he was going.

Hoi Leung (19:16):

And but when you look at him, you would think that he was some kind of, you know, old old hick kinda, kinda guy. But, but one mentor that that that, that spoke to me that was very clear was the fact that I think some, some people are going into, into the teaching profession as a job and not a career. And what I mean by a job, I mean, teaching is more than just, you know, just teaching. I mean he actually made it a situa, he actually called it a calling. And I, and when I said, of calling, what does that mean? He says, it’s almost like going into the priesthood. He goes, or, or the convent, right? Like, you know, when you go to the priesthood or the convent, it’s a calling. You don’t just go into it just because you know it’s a job, right?

Hoi Leung (19:58):

So he did say that teaching is, is like a calling where people coming into teaching should look into it like a, a as like more than just a job, a career. So, for example, social workers don’t go into it just like a job. Social workers care about the stu or care about the, the people they work for, and they try to help the society. And I think some teachers, not all, I mean, most teachers are, are great, let, lemme get through that. But some teachers come into it and I see that where they come in and it’s like nine to nine to five job. They don’t coach, they don’t do anything with the school, and they just kind of you know, they expect students to be perfectly sitting, still putting up their hand, yes, sir. No, sir. And they don’t realize that nowadays, as, as teachers, we are social workers, psychologists, psychiatrists we even considered medical staff because we have to, you know, help students with medication sometimes.

Hoi Leung (20:49):

And so there’s a lot more to the job than just teaching. And I think some, I, I think with, with that in mind, if people are going to teaching, they have to realize it’s just more than just trying to impart knowledge to students. It’s actually all those things because in the education Act, we are actually, it’s actually, there’s a line that says we’re, we’re considered local parentis, which means in Latin we act as parents. And so as teachers, we act as parents at the school in, in lieu of the parents. So, so that’s something that we have to keep in mind as teachers.

Sam Demma (21:22):

I love that. When, when you think about the, you know, the roles that you’ve played and all the experience you’ve gained from them, if you could bundle it all up, you know, go back in time, speak to ho in his first year of teaching, tap yourself on the shoulder and give yourself some advice. Knowing what you know now and with the experiences you have had, what would you have told your younger self that you thought would’ve been helpful to hear early on in your career? Or should I say calling

Hoi Leung (21:50):

<laugh>? Yeah, it’s a calling. I, I think, I mean, I think the advice I give to any teacher, including myself, would be to have open mindedness growth mindset, a growth mindset, meaning you know, that people are coming from, from different experiences, lived experiences. I mean, I mean, my lived experience, I, I, I guess, is different from somebody else’s, and we have to be be cognizant of that and be open-minded of that. when you come with open mind, I mean, I’ll be honest with you, when I first started teaching, I mean, I used to be the, the teacher that used to give zeros. You didn’t hand in stuff on time or, or late marks and all that kind. And as, as the years go by, I mean, you understand why, you know, some people are, are not handing in stuff or are not doing well, and you have to look into that and, and try to help those students.

Hoi Leung (22:36):

I mean, 90% of the students are gonna do well, regardless of what you do, doesn’t matter who’s in, it’s the 10% or, or five or 10% of the students that you need to work on. So as a teacher, if there’s 30 students in my class, you know, I do a lesson, you know, I mean, you know, 27, those kids will get it. It’s those three kids that you have to look at and try to help them directly to, to help them through. Because the other 27 don’t, they don’t really need your help. They’ll, they’ll do fine no matter what. And I think I think when I first started, I didn’t tell you this background. So when I first started, I taught for 10 years in a program called Section 19. section 19 is is a program. Every board has it.

Hoi Leung (23:14):

And what it is, is non-mainstream students. So for example, I taught group home kids, foster home kids, and young offenders. So tho that’s my first experience as, as a teacher. So, so so I know you’re from the Pickering area, so I used to teach a lot of students that were in group homes in the curriculum area, and my job was to reintegrate them back into the, into the mainstream system. So, so I think with that background, I, I was helping a lot of at risk students already. And when I talked I guess quote unquote regular students, it was easy. I mean, obviously when you teach at-risk students you know, and you teach ’em something teaching regular students is easy because, you know, the, the behaviors are, are not there anymore. Yeah. You know, they have good solid families, you know, family background supports and, and, and those things are easy.

Hoi Leung (24:00):

But you know, one of the, the things I, I tell students a lot when they’re when they’re struggling, I say, you know, education is something that can’t be taken away from you. So once you get that diploma, that degree, they can’t take that away from you no matter what you do. So, for example, a driver’s license, so you get a driver’s license, you don’t, you know, you do, you don’t do well, they’ll, they’ll take that away from you. You get caught for drunk driving in education, no matter what you do, you can’t, they can’t be taken away from you. I mean, not, not to say I want, I wanna tell people to do, do criminal acts, but you know, even if you do something criminal, yeah. I mean, you go to jail, you still have your education behind with you, right? They can’t take that degree away from you. So that’s something I always tell students. Once you get, once you earn that degree or the diploma nobody can take that away from you.

Sam Demma (24:46):

I love it. If someone is listening to this, wants to reach out, ask you a question, bounce an idea around, or was inspired in any way and just wants to send you a note, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Hoi Leung (24:59):

Oh, through the board. My email is hoi.leung@ddsb.ca, and you know, you can always find me at the board. I’m, like I said, I mean, I’m the <laugh>. I’m one of the few principals. There’s only 20 principals, so I, you can definitely find me at the board or google me. I’m, you google my name, I’m, I’m there for, for volleyball coaching and for, for Principal.

Sam Demma (25:26):

Awesome. Hoi, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. It means the world to me and lots of other people in education. Keep doing the great work you’re doing, and we’ll talk soon.

Hoi Leung (25:35):

Thank you.

Sam Demma (25:37):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Hoi Leung

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Darrell Glenn – Head coach of the University of Prince Edward Men’s Varsity Basketball Team

Darrell Glenn - Head coach of the University of Prince Edward Men's Varsity Basketball Team
About Darrel Glenn

Darrell Glenn (@coachdglenn) is the head coach of the University of Prince Edward men’s varsity basketball team. He has coached basketball at various programs throughout Ontario and is currently in Prince Edward Island.

He was a high school teacher in Ontario for 17 years and taught various social science courses, and he spent the last 5 years teaching Phys Ed. Darrell feels very fortunate to have had many mentors and role models enter his life, and he credits them for shaping his ideas on giving back.

Darrell’s philosophy on teaching and developing is that you have to establish trust with the people you are working with, and enthusiasm is the difference.

Connect with Darrell: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Men’s Basketball – University of Prince Edward Island Men’s Varsity Basketball (UPEI)

Ontario Institute for Studies in Education – University of Toronto (OISE)

Queen’s Athletics and Recreation

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:55):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator.

Sam Demma (00:58):

Today’s special guest is Darrell Glenn. Darrell Glenn is the head coach of the University of Prince Edward men’s varsity basketball team. He has coached basketball at various programs throughout Ontario and is currently in Prince Edward Island.He was a high school teacher in Ontario for 17 years and taught various social science courses, and he spent the last 5 years teaching Phys Ed. Darrell feels very fortunate to have had many mentors and role models enter his life, and he credits them for shaping his ideas on giving back.Darrell’s philosophy on teaching and developing is that you have to establish trust with the people you are working with, and enthusiasm is the difference. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Coach Darrell Glenn, and I will see you on the other side. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today we’re joined by a very special guest. The guest is Darrell Glenn. Darrell, welcome to the show. Please start by introducing yourself

Darrell Glenn (01:59):

First and foremost, thanks for having me. As you mentioned, my name is Darrell Glenn, and I’m the head coach of the Varsity men’s basketball team at the University of Prince Edward Island.

Sam Demma (02:10):

How did you get into sports?

Darrell Glenn (02:14):

Well, I, I’ve played sports really throughout school as a kid and I grew up in Toronto and I was fortunate enough to be recruited to come to the University of Prince Edward Rhode Island. Nice. See where I played varsity basketball here for five years and once I finished playing, I actually stayed on the island for an additional year to work with the women’s team and that’s when I caught the bug on in coaching and wanted to kind of pursue it.

Sam Demma (02:42):

Where abouts in Toronto are you from?

Darrell Glenn (02:44):

I’m originally from North York. Nice. But when I moved back from pi, we kind of moved downtown and then we settled in the York region, Richmond Hill area.

Sam Demma (02:57):

Very cool. I’m just in Pickering, so not too far from your home hometown, <laugh>. Nice,

Darrell Glenn (03:02):

Nice, nice, nice.

Sam Demma (03:03):

What was it about, you mentioned you caught the bug. What was it about coaching specifically that year with the women’s team that really opened your eyes to the passion you had for coaching that inspired you to keep going to this day?

Darrell Glenn (03:18):

Well it’s interesting because when I was playing, I was going into my senior year of high school and I attended a basketball camp as a player and at the conclusion of the camp, one of the coaches, his name is Willie Dallas and I credit him really as being the first person to plant that seed. And he said to me, when you’re playing careers over and you’re ever considering coaching, give me a call. I think you’d be a fantastic coach. And I kind of heard it but never really thought much of it cuz at that time I was 18 or 17 and really just thinking about playing. And it wasn’t really until after I had done the year with the girls and I was moving back to Toronto that I actually called them and he kind of helped set my pathway into coaching once I got back to Ontario.

Sam Demma (04:08):

And the aspects of coaching that give you the most joy, would they be the interactions with the athletes, seeing them go on and off the court? What parts of it keep you going back day in and day out?

Darrell Glenn (04:21):

I think to go back to, sorry, just second part of your question. When I did that year with the girls, I think what every component of coaching, it takes a little bit away. It takes certain skill sets that you have to, to do the various things that you need to do. So you’re coaching, there’s the technical aspect of it, the emotional and mental side of it where you have to manage different emotions and different personalities. There’s the competition side of it, which I really enjoy. There’s the preparation side of it, there’s the recruiting side of it and there’s the community relations side of it. So there’s a lot of different things that I got exposed to in that year and I really, really enjoyed it. And I thought this is like there’s never a day that’s the same two days that are the same. So you’re always doing something new. And fast forwarding to where I am today, I think what I really love about it the most is that I’m constantly growing as a person.

Sam Demma (05:25):

That’s awesome. And you’re still throwing around a basketball and being able to be on the court, which was your passion growing up as a kid, which I think is really special. Yeah,

Darrell Glenn (05:36):

That’s awesome.

Sam Demma (05:38):

Have you had any other involvement in the lives of young people off the court? Is there anything else that you’ve done or been a part of that has impacted youth?

Darrell Glenn (05:46):

So I was actually a high school teacher in Toronto for 19 years. I taught at four different schools. So I’d like to believe that I’ve had an impact on <laugh>. A few the people, few of the students that I worked with. Nice. I can certainly say with a lot of confidence, they’ve definitely had a positive impact on me and my development as a person.

Sam Demma (06:07):

So you started with teaching before you became a coach or did you start coaching back when you began your education career in Toronto as well?

Darrell Glenn (06:17):

I actually started them at the same time. I guess when I came back to Ontario, I worked, worked actually for Canada Trust before it became TD Canada Trust. Nice <laugh>. And I had started coaching almost immediately and after doing that for about three years, I was at the side counter doing mortgages and loans. I just realized this is not something I think I can really enjoy doing for the rest of my life. And I was already starting to coach and I’d already kind of felt like teaching was where I wanted to go. So I know I was fortunate enough to get into OISE at U F T, did that and then started teaching right away. So it’s been something I’ve always kind of wanted to do and when I had the opportunity to do it, I really enjoyed it.

Sam Demma (07:03):

What are the different roles you’ve done in education? Were you a high school teacher of the same subject for all 19 years? Did you move schools? Tell me a little bit about your journey after you finished the degree.

Darrell Glenn (07:15):

So sure. I’ll share an interesting story. So in my year at oise, cuz back then it was just one year for teachers college and they had a career day and a bunch of boards came to oise and they kind of talked about the different job, the job opportunities and whatever and how to apply. And during the presentations I made a list of the schools that I wanted to teach at my preference. And so one of the schools that I had written down was Oakwood Collegiate, that’s the school I wanted. That was my number one choice. So when I finished teachers college, there was a hiring freeze and I started teaching at a private school and I found out that the head coach of the men’s basketball, senior men’s basketball team or boys’ basketball team at Oakwood was in his last year. He was retiring the following year, let’s go.

Darrell Glenn (08:16):

And coach head coach Terry Thompson has kind of been a legend in the city, had kind of coached at that school for 30 years. I had kind of grown up when I was in high school playing against his team and I thought that’s the job I want. And so I approached him about being a volunteer with the team that year and learning under him in his last year. And so what I would do every day is I would leave the private school, which was in a Toko and I would drive all the way downtown. Geez. And I would volunteer with the team. And one day when I drove downtown, I got into the gym and I saw my old vice principal talking to Coach Thompson. So I approached him and we kind of looked at each other, what are you doing here? What are you doing here, <laugh>? And so I explained to him that I was teaching and I was at this private school and I reached out to Coach Thompson and he said I could volunteer. And then I looked at him, what are you doing here? And he said, well I’m actually the principal of school

Sam Demma (09:16):

Throughway meeting <laugh>.

Darrell Glenn (09:18):

So through some work he was able to help assist me get that position cool at Oakwood Collegiate. And that’s where my teaching career started. I was at Oakwood for eight years and then I went on to teach at Newton Brook Collegiate. I did that for three years. And then I finished my last six years of teaching or seven years of teaching was at West Houston Centennial. So I taught everything. I started in social sciences cause I got my degree in history and I have a minor in sociology. So I did Canadian history, I taught law, I taught ancient civilizations, I taught politics, I saw family studies. And then in my last years I kind of transitioned into Phed and I started teaching Phed and then became the head of athletics at West Houston Centennial.

Sam Demma (10:14):

What a journey. Yeah, what a cool journey. What a cool story. Let’s talk about the volunteerism aspect of that story real quick because I think you wouldn’t have had that opportunity had you not decided to volunteer. And one of the things I often talk about with people is how important volunteerism is not in the context of getting job opportunities for yourself, but in the context of giving back. And I found if you give back, usually it just naturally opens up cool opportunities and doors in other areas of your life just on its own. Do you think getting involved as an educator and being a part of the community more than just teaching in a classroom is really important?

Darrell Glenn (10:54):

I think so. And I always felt to honestly as being a minority teacher and going into some of the communities and it was one of the reasons why I wanted to get into education. Cause first of all, I didn’t see a lot of people who looked like me in the education system when I was going through school. And I just thought there were some areas where students could use a little bit more support and a little bit more understanding. So I always took on the role understanding that it was a lot bigger than just being in the classroom and that my reach and influence could be extended way beyond just being, I thought it was impactful in the classroom, but I also thought I had a unique opportunity to do a lot of a variety of other things to positively impact students that I worked with. So I kind of took that role very serious. And I agree with you and I always tell this story to my players now when I suggest that they go and volunteer and they always say, ah no, I gotta make money or I gotta do. And I always go back to the story and say, when I started out, had I not volunteered, who knows how long I would’ve not been able to coach in the board. Cause at the time they weren’t hiring. I was really fortunate, but I kind of created my fortune by just volunteering.

Sam Demma (12:15):

And I think there’s actions that push our odds in our favor. And Jim Roan, I think always used to say he was like this author and success teacher who’s now passed away that if you help enough people reach their visions and goals, you can have yours too. And it’s this idea that the person who’s always willing to give and pour into others that also ends up living the life that they wanna live. And I think it’s just, it’s a beautiful situation because you benefit because you feel good about it and the people you’re helping benefit cuz you’re helping them. And then the world as a whole just becomes a little bit of a kinder place. And I think sports are such an amazing way to give back. I spent my whole childhood pursuing a dream to play pro soccer. What are some of the correlations that you found between coaching students on the court versus teaching them in a classroom? Are there skills that they picked up in athletics that you think also apply to teaching and to life?

Darrell Glenn (13:14):

It, it’s interesting because when I look at my role as a head coach, I really first and foremost look at myself as a teacher. And I always kind of see it from that lens. And I think the way we, what we see as our strength and I say mean our coaching staff, what we see as our strength here is the development of people. And we don’t just look at that from a basketball perspective, but we look at that as a human perspective. And we’re trying to help our young people grow in more than just the physical part. We’re trying to help them emotionally, spiritually, and we try to put as many resources as we can. So I feel like my teaching background actually helps me. For example, today I’m doing something on time management with my rookies. Nice. So I’ve kinda used my teaching background to put something together and we’re gonna do a classroom session on time management and how they can better use their time to help them be successful both on and off the court.

Sam Demma (14:18):

That’s awesome. I feel like educators could benefit from that too. And any human being <laugh>, if you don’t mind me asking, what are some of the things you intend to share or some of the ideas?

Darrell Glenn (14:32):

Well what the way it’s set up is, and this is the way I approach teaching, is I’m gonna let them, we created a chart where the times from 6:00 AM to 12:00 AM every day. And they’re gonna just go through and I’m gonna get them to put through all the activities that they do in a day, Monday through Saturday or Monday through Sunday. And just get them to look at really to prioritize or just see for themselves where am I spending all of my time and is where I’m spending this time productive. So it’s really a reflective exercise where they’re gonna do most of the work and then they’re gonna look at their own hours and how they’re using it and determine for themselves if there are areas where they could be a little bit more productive.

Sam Demma (15:24):

I love that they could even align their future goals with where they’re spending time and see if they’re actually contributing to bringing that to life or not at all. <laugh>. Right.

Darrell Glenn (15:33):

And it’s those four hours you’re spending a day gaming, is that helping you with your academic work and is that happening helping you as an athlete?

Sam Demma (15:43):

Very cool. Yeah, I love that. It sounds like you’ve had individuals in your life who’ve played a big role. Have you had any mentors who, when you think about people in your life who’ve made a difference immediately come to the forefront of your mind? And if so, who are some of those individuals, even if they’re no longer around or even if they’re authors of books or anything that’s been really helpful in the formation of your own beliefs and ideas?

Darrell Glenn (16:08):

I’ve been really blessed in this regard and I’m a firm believer that people come in and out of your life at different times to give you different things and to provide you with different opportunities if you let them in. And I have been, there’s one area of my life where I feel like I’ve been truly blessed. It’s been with the people who have impacted me and it starts really, really early. And I would say along my journey and there’s so many people to mention, I would be not to mention cause I don’t wanna forget anyone. But I would just say that there are a lot of people who’ve come into my life that have given me different things that have helped shaped the way I think about things the way I live my life. And I’ve been incredibly fortunate in that regard. So I often feel like a great deal of responsibility to give back because I’ve gotten so much that I want to give back to people and especially the people I’m working with cuz I’ve been very, very fortunate in that regard.

Sam Demma (17:15):

Ah, that’s awesome. Without mentioning names, what are some of the things you think you’ve learned or taken away that have been foundational for you? Or maybe there’s moments in your life where something was going on and person crossed your path and it was like, damn, I needed that interaction today. I wondering if you have any moments like that come to mind?

Darrell Glenn (17:36):

Mean there are a lot. So I mean, I’m thinking of early childhood where I had a coach who kind of came into my life and we looked at him as a mentor, a big brother. And he really instilled hard work and discipline or what’s gonna help you be successful. And the way we approached all sports and activities was full out. He never let us take a possession off. And that’s been kind of a running theme throughout my life with different people who’ve come into my life. And I’ve had the good fortune to be around a lot of successful coaches and successful people. And that’s the one common stream that I’ve always seen is the work ethic. That these people are just tireless workers and they’re always pushing to get better. So that’s been, that’s really common. Regardless if it’s sport, if it’s business, if it’s whatever.

Darrell Glenn (18:26):

I’ve teachers, I’ve just consistently seen this in my teaching career. When I was at Boise, I ran into a professor who really, she had a class and I can’t remember the name of the class cause it was just one of these really long titles that had seven different titles to it, <laugh>. But the long and short of it is the class was set up for us to become familiar with what our students are going through outside of life and through those, I’ll give you an example. So one of the things that we had to do is we had to go to a rave. So our class had to go to

Sam Demma (19:09):

<laugh>. Okay.

Darrell Glenn (19:10):

We had to go to a bar, they went to a gay bar is one of the things we had to do. We had to go, we read an an autobiography on Tupac. Nice. And so just all these different things that we had to do that really helped us to understand what our students’ lives were like. And what what’s impactful about this course was the professor created, she created an environment where people were sharing really personal stories about really traumatic things that had happened in her life. And you would leave the classroom with a headache cause everybody would be sobbing uncontrollably. Damn. It was almost like being in a therapy session. It was unbelievable that these strangers, we would get together for an hour and a half or however the look long the class was. And she created an environment that was so trusting that people were opening up about things that they had not discussed with anybody in their entire life. And I remember walking away from that experience in that class and thinking, wouldn’t that be something if you could create a classroom environment like that where people felt that safe and that vulnerable, that they would be willing to share all the things that are troubling them. So that kind of stood out in my mind as a very, very special experience. And she was just an unbelievable professor in order to shape that culture.

Sam Demma (20:42):

I wanna jump in for a second. Sure. That question you have of how cool would it be to create a classroom where every student feels that way, I think is a question that runs through the mind of every educator as one of the goals they have in their classrooms or on the court as a coach amongst their athletes. And I’m curious to know if you found any characteristics or things that she did that you think enabled her to build that level of trust that you’ve tried to exhibit yourself or you think other educators might be able to give a try in their classrooms?

Darrell Glenn (21:14):

To be honest, it’s like I’ve been doing coaching now, this is my 27th year and I taught, like I said, for about 19 and I still haven’t had that magic touch. Yeah, she was just so unique in so many ways and a lot of it was just she was beyond belief and always gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. Never questioned if you came in late and you were always late, she treated it. It was the first time you were late. And when I think about my teaching, your automatic instinct, again, one of the things I’ve learned early in teaching, and I remember this, I had a student and he was always late and then one day I just was just sick of him being late and he was just so casual about coming in and being late. It never had a really good explanation. So I took him in the hall and I just verbally went after him. And then he kind of just calmly said, well sir, what am I supposed to do? I gotta take my siblings to school before I come to class. And I thought, geez. And it was my first real lesson. And you better start asking more questions before you start calling students. Ew

Sam Demma (22:34):

Goose bones

Darrell Glenn (22:36):

<laugh>, right? Yeah. It’s sitting there and you’re thinking to your, how terrible do I feel this kid is in grade nine and he’s gotta get two siblings dressed and take them to school. He’s gotta make their lunch, he’s gotta make their breakfast. And they weren’t even going to the same school and he just did this every day. And he would come to class like nothing. And the kid was 10 minutes late. Was it at the end of the world? No. And what he had already done, he had done more than most of his peers had done for the whole day. He’d already done it before nine o’clock. So that was really highlighting moment for me to realize when I was in education, you need to really get to know your students. You really get need to and imagine no matter what their personalities are like or how they present themselves, there’s always a story there.

Darrell Glenn (23:22):

And sometimes the kids with the biggest behavioral problems have the worst stories or they need the most sympathy, they need the most understanding. So our professor and I can say her name, Tara Goldstein, was, she was unbelievable with that. She made you feel safe, she made you feel understood. She, and she just had had a very unique way of doing it. It was just a very innocent really, to be honest. I haven’t been able to replicate it, so I don’t even know how to describe it. But it was just so genuine that she just pulled you in and made you feel like this is a safe place.

Sam Demma (24:02):

I love that. I think that shares a lot. It says a lot about her teaching for you to still be talking about it now and the impact that it created and how much it inspired you to try and create those similar spaces. Sounds like you’ve had so many, oh sorry, go

Darrell Glenn (24:18):

Ahead. Sorry. I was gonna say this. The other thing that’s interesting about that is, so we were at the faculty and this class was made up of students from various faculty. So I was in history, there would be people in science, there were people in various, we since that grad, I graduated in 2000. Since that time we would see people, I would see teachers at track and field meets or at a teaching like the PD session. And there’s this immediate connection and it’s just from this one class <laugh>, it was like, I don’t even know how to describe it. I still don’t know how to describe it. But anytime I see one of those students, we have an immediate connection.

Sam Demma (25:03):

That’s so cool. How many people are in that class? Do you remember roughly? Was it a big number?

Darrell Glenn (25:09):

Maybe 40, 45, something like that.

Sam Demma (25:11):

That’s so cool. That is a case study

Darrell Glenn (25:15):

<laugh>. Yeah. And the unfortunate thing is there were two parts of the course and the second part of the course in the second semester, she got a promotion,

Sam Demma (25:25):

So she wasn’t teaching it no more.

Darrell Glenn (25:26):

So she didn’t teach us for the entire year. We were devastated.

Sam Demma (25:29):

Wow.

Darrell Glenn (25:30):

We were

Sam Demma (25:30):

Devastated. I think that’s the goal of every educator, build these safe spaces where students can be themselves and secretly know that if you leave, they’d be devastated. <laugh>.

Darrell Glenn (25:39):

Yeah. And what she taught me is the impact that you can have because here we are like 20 something years later and I’m still talking about it. It was yesterday.

Sam Demma (25:51):

Wow. That’s so cool. You’ve had various individuals and people in your life who have crossed your paths and had a significant impact. Have you found inspiration in any books or courses or other materials or resources that you found helpful as well? Or has most of it been people in your immediate vicinity most of your life?

Darrell Glenn (26:11):

No. Again, I kind of alluded to this before, but I think the thing that’s been great about this job, and it’s not just coaches coaching and o’s like what we’re trying to do here is build a program. And for me as a graduate of this school, what I’m hoping to do is to leave a lasting legacy so that the next person who takes this job over after I’m finished with it takes it to another level. And what I’m hoping to do also is to create a foundation where some of the grunt work that I had to do to kind of get the program to where we are now, that person doesn’t have to do, they can just take it and take it to another level. So I kind of see that as my responsibility and I feel a little indebted to the university cuz they gave me an opportunity. They kind of believed in me. So again, one of the things that I’ve encountered that I feel I’m blessed with. So I certainly wanna share that blessing and create an opportunity for someone else down the road.

Sam Demma (27:15):

Very cool. I love that you mentioned that you have a whole staff as well, and that one of the focuses is not just developing the people, the young people into great athletes, but also into great human beings. Where does the latter part of that whole mission come into play? I know that you mentioned that you have in classroom sessions, gimme an idea of what a week looks like as a part of the basketball program or the whole program.

Darrell Glenn (27:41):

And I’m always, I’m jumped, sorry, I jumped over part of your question. The other part you talked about is where is my influences come from? So the other part of that is, and I’ll lead into the answer. Sure. I think the other part of that is, is I’m always trying to find ways to better deliver and better meet the needs of the young people that I’m working with. Nice. And that includes the staff that I’m working with. So there’s this constant evolution and you’re constantly pushing yourself to try to get better. You’re constantly finding ways to communicate better. So I read all the time. I’m always reading. I’m watching podcasts endlessly. I’m talking to coaches across the country. I like, I’ll pick up the phone and ask a coach about retention. What are you doing about retention? So I have a really good friend who coaches at Queens and Queens has one of the best retention rates in the Oua or the Ontario University schools.

Darrell Glenn (28:34):

Well, I called him What’s going on over there? Why aren’t you losing any players <laugh>? Everybody across the country’s losing players you’re not losing. So I’m always, I haveing friends who coach in the states, so I’m picking their brains. I also have those people come and speak to the team. Nice. So we’ve had people come in to speak to our team via Zoom or people locally in the community. So I’m constantly looking for ways to learn and grow. And I’m hoping by example that the players are learning and the people that I’m around are learning that this is an important part of learning and growing is you’re constantly seeking ways to get better.

Sam Demma (29:15):

Yeah. That’s awesome. I love that. And now onto the second question I asked you, but we were back to the last one. What does a week look like in the eyes of a student going through this program and being a part of the team?

Darrell Glenn (29:29):

So it’s actually quite grueling. So we’re on the court. We’re on court probably. So the team is put into small groups and we’re on the court an hour a day outside of practice. So Monday to Thursday there we do small individual work and we just work on their fundamentals and their skills in those sessions for an hour. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, they also have weightlifting. And that’s just for the guys who were playing, we call them heavy usage players. So they’re playing 20 or more minutes a game. They lift for twice a week. If you’re playing less than 20, then you’re doing three times a week. So they do that with our strength and conditioning coach. And then we practice every day, anywhere from an hour, hour and a half to two hours. All of our freshmen are in study hall for four hours a week.

Darrell Glenn (30:27):

So we go Monday and Thursday for one hour each session we’ll bring in guest speakers, we’ll bring in various people to talk to our team, and then we compete on the weekends. So within all of those things, I’m constantly bringing in. So we, let’s say we have a, today we practice at six o’clock. So we always meet a half an hour before in a classroom. Nice. And we will go over our X’s and O’s, our technical stuff. But often those discussions start with some kind of a lesson. So we do everything from interrupting harm to study skills to team goals versus individual goals where we’re really just talking about the human being and we, we’ve done stuff on gratitude. Nice. So we just tried cross the full gamut of things. So again, we’re hoping to get our guys to grow as much as possible.

Sam Demma (31:33):

Very cool. That’s awesome. It sounds like the program is a really fertile place for growth <laugh>. I dunno why I like gardening analogy comes to mind. But I have been on many different programs. I’ve had some really phenomenal experiences and I’ve had some really terrible experiences growing up as an athlete and the program, it sounds like you’re running, would’ve been a dream program for me to be a part of, so. Well,

Darrell Glenn (32:01):

Thanks for saying that. I appreciate,

Sam Demma (32:02):

Yeah, I hope you continue to do this work for a long time. And if someone’s listening to this and wants to reach out and ask you questions about retention or how they’ve embedded, don’t

Darrell Glenn (32:13):

Ask you about retention <laugh>

Sam Demma (32:14):

Or if they want to pick your brain just about sports and the connections between that and teaching or maybe they just wanna ask you about education at all because they’re just getting into the profession or having some challenges right now. What would be the most efficient way for an educator listening to reach out and get in touch with you?

Darrell Glenn (32:31):

So they can get ahold of me at dglenn@upei.ca.

Sam Demma (32:38):

Awesome. Darrell, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it so, so much. It’s been a pleasure and an honor chatting with you. Keep up the great work you’re doing and we’ll talk soon.

Darrell Glenn (32:47):

Well, it’s a pleasure, Sam. Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity. Really enjoyed to chat.

Sam Demma (32:52):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Darrel Glenn

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Anita Bondy is the Team Lead of the International Cohort-Based Master Admissions at the University of Windsor

Anita Bondy is the Team Lead of the International Cohort-Based Master Admissions at the University of Windsor
About Anita Bondy

Anita Bondy is the Team Lead of the International Cohort-Based Master Admissions at the University of Windsor. In this role, Anita oversees the admissions of approximately 9,000 applications annually to many of the university’s largest graduate programs. Her team of 6 works with applicants, educational agents, overseas recruiters and faculty to admit only the highest quality applicants to these very competitive programs.

In 2020, Anita received the Ontario Universities Registrars Association (OURA) Award of Excellence for her leadership in transitioning the course-based admissions process from the Centre for Executive and Professional Education (CEPE) to the Office of the Registrars.

Anita also teaches part-time at St. Clair College Zekelman School of Business and Technology. She can use her MBA and CHRP designation to its fullest by educating students in various areas of Human Resource Management. Her HR expertise is also shown in her volunteer VP-HR role for the Latchkey Child Care Board of Directors, which she has served for almost a decade.

In her leisure, Anita volunteers her time as a Committee Member and coach for the Miracle League of Riverside Baseball association, an all-accessible baseball league for individuals with physical or developmental exceptionalities.

Connect with Anita: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

International Cohort-Based Master Admissions – University of Windsor

Ontario Universities Registrars Association (OURA)

OURA Awards

Centre for Executive and Professional Education (CEPE)

St. Clair College Zekelman School of Business and Technology

Latchkey Child Care Board of Directors

Riverside Baseball association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:59):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Anita Bondy. Anita is the team lead of the International Cohort based Master Admissions at the University of Windsor. In this role, Anita oversees the admissions of approximately 9,000 applications annually to many of the University’s largest graduate programs. Her team of six works with applicants, educational agents, overseas recruiters, and faculty to admit only the highest quality applicants to those very competitive programs. In 2020, Anita received the Ontario University’s Registrar’s Association Award of Excellence for her leadership in transitioning the course based admissions process from the Center of Executive and Professional Education to the Office of the Registrars. Anita also teaches part-time at St. Clair College, Zekelman School of Business and Technology. She can use her MBA and CHRP designation to its fullest by educating students in various areas of human resource management. Her HR expertise is also shown in her volunteer VP HR role for the Latchkey Childcare Board of Directors, which she has served for almost a decade. In her leisure, Anita volunteers her time as a committee member and coach for the Miracle League of Riverside Baseball Association, an all accessible baseball league for individuals with physical or developmental exceptionalities. I hope you enjoy this insightful and energetic conversation with Anita and I will see you on the other side.

Sam Demma (02:35):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator. Today’s special guest is Anita Bondy. Anita, welcome to the podcast. Please start by introducing yourself.

Anita Bondy (02:45):

Hi Sam. Thanks so much for having me. My name is Anita Bondy. I currently work at the University of Windsor as the team lead for our international cohort based master’s admissions, and I teach part-time at St. Clair College.

Sam Demma (02:59):

Did you know when you were a student navigating your own career pathways that you wanted to work in education?

Anita Bondy (03:05):

No. So and so I started at the university in my Bachelor of Commerce actually thinking that I was gonna go into finance or accounting because that to me was where someone with a business degree went. I don’t know why I thought that front, what leading high school. So I started with that thought. And then after my first two years cuz we don’t choose a specialization until your third and fourth year, I just realized I did way better in what I call the soft skills. So like the marketing, the human resources side versus the number side. So I kind of switched my focus and I did my undergraduate degree in marketing thinking I was gonna go into marketing and sales. And I did for a little bit. I did for a little bit. And then when I did my mba, I wanted to do a different concentration.

Anita Bondy (03:57):

So I went into the HR strain and that really sort of changed where I thought my career was gonna go. But genuinely, I I just kind of fell into this for lack of a better way of putting it. my first job out of university was recruiting for the university. So right away I was doing marketing and sales from an educational perspective. And I did that for a couple of years. And then I ended up getting more of a full-time role with our business school doing their curriculum redevelopment. Nice. So that I, I fell really hard into curriculum and, and higher education at that point. But then I was actually offered an opportunity to go back into sales in the private sector. And I did pharmaceutical sales for Proctor and Gamble for about four years. Wow. And that was really cool. It was a very cool job.

Anita Bondy (04:52):

and that’s, that was very sales focused, of course. And then the role that I was in they actually downsized the entire department. And so I was out looking for something and I, I always say that it was very serendipitous because the day that I was told that they were getting rid of like, that they were downsizing all of the sales reps. I reached out to two of my friends who still worked at the university and said, Hey, I’m looking again. And that same day a marketing role at the university came up. So I I I smile all the time. Cause I was like, that’s, that’s interesting. Yeah. So then I went back into education and I did marketing recruitment for our professional programs, which morphed in, these are more internationally focused graduate programs. So my role with that turned into more doing marketing recruitment for all undergraduate and graduate programs.

Anita Bondy (05:49):

And then that morphed into what I do now, which is overseeing the admissions for those programs. So originally when I started, when I was in high school and university, had no thoughts of working in education. and it just sort of happenstance turned into that. And now I’m quite convinced that this is my career. I don’t intend on on leaving. but probably starting to teach at the college was where I really feel like my, my heart is, I think that I should have gone into teaching maybe because that is where I really feel like I’m being the most impactful, even though it’s only part-time and I’m only affecting 50 or a hundred students at a time, that’s where I really find the most enjoyment out of my roles.

Sam Demma (06:39):

Nice. From selling drugs to education <laugh>. Right.

Anita Bondy  (06:43):

It’s so funny. It’s so funny. I remember my, my sister who is an educator, she’s a kindergarten teacher, used to joke around that I was a drug dealer. And I said, listen, it’s, it’s, it’s legal though. I’m a legal drug dealer. and then yeah, now I’m, I’ve popped into you know, and in fact one of the programs that we admit for one, one of their career paths is going into pharmaceuticals. So it’s like I, I completely changed hats and now I’m helping people do that job <laugh> or get qualified to do that job. Yeah.

Sam Demma (07:12):

What are some of the skills you think you learned in the corporate sector doing sales and marketing that have been very helpful in the work you’re doing now in education that you think any educator, whether you’re working in an office or in a classroom, could benefit from?

Anita Bondy (07:27):

One of the things that Procter and Gamble did wonderfully was the training and development program for their, for their staff. And one of the things that we were sort of taught was really identifying really well with your customer or your client mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So understanding what their needs were, understanding where they were coming from, and then recognizing how I, as a person providing the product can help them with that. that I think is really transferable to what I’m doing right now because as much as I have these applicants who are applying to these roles, everyone is a different story. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> people are, are, maybe they’re doing this because they want a career advancement. Maybe they’re doing this because this is their next step in their educational journey. Maybe they’re doing that, the this because they wanna come to Canada and this is, this is a pathway for them to get educated in order to be able to immigrate and have a worthwhile career in Canada.

Anita Bondy (08:25):

So everyone has a different kind of a, a story same as the faculties that I represent. So each faculty that we recruit for and we admit for, has a different rationale as to what students that they’re looking for or what pathway they’re looking for, how many students they want, what demographic of students that they want. So really understanding my client, who I view as being both our faculty members, but also the applicants who are applying I think is really beneficial from the classroom perspective. Knowing each one of my students as best as I can and identifying where their strengths or their weaknesses are is really important as well. and that follows the same idea. You gotta know who you’re selling to, so you’ve gotta know who you’re teaching to. And if I’m teaching to someone who doesn’t have the background that I think they have, it’s gonna be a loss. But if I’m teaching to someone who maybe already has 10 or 20 years in the subject that I’m teaching, because I do teach continuing education, so I do have professionals who take my classes, then I teach a little bit differently because I know what they’re trying to get out of the course is different from what someone who’s taking it as a first year might take, might get out of it.

Sam Demma (09:43):

Ah, that’s so cool. I think selling is teaching because you’re not necessarily, if you’re doing a good job trying to sell somebody something, you’re trying to teach them something that moves them to a decision. And I think that’s so true in education as well, right?

Anita Bondy (09:58):

You just like nail on the head right there, Sam. So one of like, that is, that’s per, it’s a perfect way of, of putting it, to be honest. It’s a perfect way of putting it. Because as a salesperson, especially in pharmaceuticals, they don’t buy from me. I’m reliant on them writing a prescription, and that’s my sale. So when I’m sitting there, and it’s not like you’re selling a pair of shoes where you’re saying, okay, do you want the black or the white? And then someone makes a choice and leaves with that product. At the same time, with this type of sales, you’re educating the physician as to why that product is superior, or what demographic that that product works better with. And hoping that through that educational process when the physician has a has a patient come in who identifies with those characteristics, they look and they say, okay, this product is the best for them. So like absolutely. It’s a, it’s, it’s, it’s an educational point for first and foremost,

Sam Demma (10:59):

One of the things I love about education is the facilitation of mentorship. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’ve found in my own experience growing up as a student, some of my teachers became some of my biggest mentors. And I still stay in touch with some of them to this day and have coffee on their porches to catch up. Did you have some mentors in your corporate career and also your educational career that played a big role in your own personal development? And if so, like who are some of those people and what did they do for you?

Anita Bondy (11:29):

So my partner when I was in sales was a woman and by the name of Mary Hallett, who had been in the role for years. And she was, she was my partner. I, every piece of my success went to that lady cause she taught me everything that I needed to know. She taught me who, who the doctors were and, and what their personality were. She taught me how to sell to this person versus another person. She taught me a lot about our products and things about our competitors. So I, I owe a lot to her and I am still in, in touch with her. Cool. from a business perspective, when I was working for the Otet School of Business, part of my role was doing recruitment, part of it was doing retention. So I actually created a bit of a mentorship, a tutoring program for our business students.

Anita Bondy (12:20):

Nice. Through that I was able to hire some students, and one of the students that I hired as a third year business student is actually one of my colleagues at the university now. So she was, yeah. So, so I actually have tea with her on a very regular basis, and she was someone who I mentored a long time. So Clementa. Hi. How are you? <laugh>? from a, from a professor’s perspective, in that same role, when I did recruitment, I was partnered with a professor, Dave er, who Dr. Er was in charge of the ODT recruitment. Nice. So he and I would go out and we would go to high schools and ses and colleges to advertise for, for the b o program. He taught me a lot more about the actual curriculum and, and things along those lines that really helped me to be able to sell the program to a prospective student.

Anita Bondy (13:19):

He was very important to me in that he was such a personable professor to me. He knew me, he knew who I was, he knew my sister, he knew my family, he knew everything about me. And I so distinctly remember my first day of my MBA program, I was meeting all these other students and one student was from the University of Toronto and Dr. Bustier walked over and he goes, Hey, Anita, how you doing? I said, oh, I’m good, Dave. How are you? And he said, great, great. He’s like, did Nicole start, you know, Beed yet? And I said, yep, she’s already started. She’s doing, she’s doing I j And he’s like, great. And then we, and then he kind of left and this student who is now also a colleague of mine turned around to me and goes, that’s our marketing professor. And I said, yeah.

Anita Bondy (14:01):

And he goes, he knows your name. And I said, yeah. And I go, he knows my name. He goes my sister’s name, he knows my, you know, she’s studying <laugh>. Yeah. And, and he goes, wow. And I said, yeah. And I was kind of confused because at our school we got to know our professors really, really well. Yeah. And this, and this fellow turned around and goes, I, there’s not one professor who would know me. And I said, really? And he goes, it, he’s like, I, I’m an A student and I can tell you this man has an exceptional career now, but as an undergraduate student, he was just a number at, at the, he came from. And he was so amazed that this random professor who was walking down the hall happened to know me and that I, I saw him the other day. He’s telling me about his grandkids and what they went for on a Halloween.

Anita Bondy (14:47):

And, you know, like, I’m still in touch with him. so I’ve had some really good mentors in, in every aspect of my, of my my career. Both mentoring people or men or, or being that mentee. So I think that’s a really, really important part, especially for young people who are just getting out into their career. Mm-hmm. <affirmative> no one knows what that job is on day one. No one is expected to know what that job is on day one, but you are expected to do it. You’re expected to do that job right away. So if you don’t have someone there to guide you and to lead you and to show you the way you can get really lost. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So I love the idea of mentors and, and mentorship programs and, and partners and things like that to, to really help you understand your role a little bit better.

Sam Demma (15:40):

Sometimes mentors are even people you haven’t met before. Right. You have a, people can’t see it, but I see you on Zoom right now with a big bookshelf behind you. I’m curious to know if there’s any other resources that you found that were helpful in your own personal development or professional development, whether that be authors, books, conferences podcasts you listen to, or anything at all that’s been helpful.

Anita Bondy (16:05):

I, I do a lot of sort of some like not self-help books, but our motivational books. So I do listen to like the Brene Browns and, and things like that as well. periodically I’ll, I’ll pop in for a TED Talk and I’ll, and I’ll read through that. through the university we have a few different organizations. So we have Aura, which is the Ontario University Registrars Association. Nice. That meets fairly regularly. And there are some coffee chats that we can participate in if we’d like to. and there’s a similar sort of organization acro as well as just some internal ones that we have at the university. one of the things the university does do is offers quite a bit of professional development opportunities. So I’ll reach out to you know, someone who maybe led one of the, one of the webinars that I went to and asked for more advice that way. there are some good resources as well within our organization. So I’m having coffee this week with our talent manager to go through like possible career options for myself because, you know, and I’ve been in this role for four years, so it’s time to maybe start looking for Yeah. For something different. so I’m sitting down with her to kind of go through some other options or maybe some development opportunities. So nobody that I would pinpoint as being a go-to other than like some little pieces here and there.

Sam Demma (17:34):

Cool. Yeah. That’s awesome. You mentioned one of the things you did with the School of business was develop curriculum for an educator who doesn’t know what goes into doing something like that, can you share the process and like what you actually did in that role? Yeah.

Anita Bondy (17:48):

So the, the re the rationale behind that was within the business school world, there’s something called an AACSB accreditation. And this is a special accreditation that not a lot of business schools have. I wanna say that it’s something like 10% of the business schools around the world have this. So it’s hard to get the reason and in order to get that accreditation is based on your curriculum. It’s based on your curriculum, it’s based on your professorships and, and things along those lines. And so the ODE School of Business said, we wanna do this. We want this accreditation, so we need to revamp our curriculum. So I worked on the undergraduate committee with other well mostly professors and to look at what we were missing. And so what I did for the better part of probably a year is research schools that already had the AAC C S B accreditation looked at what their curriculum was looked at.

Anita Bondy (18:48):

And this is looking at learning objectives or learning outcomes. It’s looking at hours spent on certain topics. It’s looking at is it a tenured professor who’s teaching it versus a sessional teacher? Is it a PhD teaching it versus someone who has a master’s degree? So it’s, it goes into who’s teaching it as well. You have to look at textbooks that are available in that subject and if they encompass what is required in order to meet that accreditation. So over about a year, we researched dozens of schools to see what were the commonalities that curriculums had. And then we looked at our curriculum and found the gaps. What are we missing or what are we teaching that we don’t need to be teaching? Or what’s a duplicate or what are we missing? And through that, they, they revamped the entire undergraduate curriculum. And now, for example, we didn’t have business communications when I was in my B C O.

Anita Bondy (19:46):

Now that’s what you take in your first term, first year. they changed around some of the we didn’t have operations management when I was a student. Now that’s a required course. So there’s a lot of different pieces that were missing that through this process we were able to go through. But it’s a lot of research of other schools. It’s a lot of research of the accreditation bureau to ensure that we’re meeting all the pieces. But then it was also tasked to the faculty because they do look at things like how many people are on staff with a PhD. Mm-hmm. How many people are on staff with maybe a doctorate, how many people are employed with an accreditation versus you know, hands on experience. So that, that actually changed the hiring process for the next few years for that school because they had to emphasize more PhD or doctorate acre like accredited people for their hiring purposes. So it was a long process. And in fact, I ended up leaving for my other job before it was, was finalized. Gotcha. But I, I did present it at a conference with a, with a professor who I worked on it with. And that was, that was rewarding. It was a lot of work. Yeah.

Sam Demma (20:57):

It sounds like it was a lot of work. <laugh>. Yeah.

Anita Bondy (20:59):

Yeah. A long time ago, but it was a lot of work. <laugh>,

Sam Demma (21:03):

How does the organization of data and research look like? Is it just a never ending Google Doc <laugh>

Anita Bondy (21:09):

That it’s, so, it’s, well this was back in the day. So this was Excel spreadsheets Nice. And access databases. Okay. cause this was probably, oh gosh, it’s been a while now. So I probably completed this in like 2007 or eight. Oh wow. Cool. It was a long time ago. Right. so it was, it was before the world of Google Docs took over. So it, it was a lot of spreadsheeting. and in fact, back in that day, we didn’t even have shared drives. Ah. So it was, it was saving on USBs and, and bringing to someone’s office to upload, because our email wouldn’t send files that long <laugh>. So like, I’m very much aging myself here. But yeah, it was, it was a year’s worth of, of Spreadsheeting and documents before we got it into, and then it ended up being like a, a full report, dozens of pages. I couldn’t even tell you how many it was that led to our recommendation to the faculty as to how to change the curriculum.

Sam Demma (22:09):

Hmm. One of the things I love about education is no matter what role you’re in, you know, it has an impact on the end user, the student who’s going through the whole system, whether you’re developing the curriculum they’re gonna participate in from future years, whether you’re in accounting and writing invoices. So students can have new opportunities, you know, whether you are the teacher, the bus driver, the custodian, like every person plays a role. I’m curious from your perspective, the role you’re in now, what do you think is the impact on the end user and have you heard some of the impact <laugh>?

Anita Bondy (22:43):

Yes, I have. So both positively and negatively, I’ll be honest with you. the programs that I oversee the admissions for are very competitive. So we’ll get annually, anywhere between nine and 10,000 applications. Wow. We have about 3000 seats at the most. Somewhere between two and 3000 seats, depending on the term annually. Right. So there is a lot of students who are not admitted. So they, so I do have to deal with the negative aspect of it affecting someone as well. So, and, and so I do, so I’ll start with that. So, you know, I have had to answer emails from students who are not admitted asking why or what are pathways now. And sometimes this is an opportunity to put them on a better pathway. So if they’re not maybe qualified for our program, but I’m looking at their transcripts and I can see that they would be qualified for a different program on our campus or maybe a different program that I just happen to know about at a different school.

Anita Bondy (23:47):

Yeah. And I’m able to give them a different pathway to be able to get in On the positive end. I have students who come into the office every term wanting to see me to say thank you for their, for, for guiding them. Thank you for accommodating them. I, as I’ve told you, Sam I’m, I’m an identical twin. So I had one set of twins actually contact me. One got into a program for fall, the other one got into a program for winter, and they called me and they said, we can’t do this alone. I need my sister there. What can you do? And I ended up being able to push one to, to the previous semester. And they came in, the two most identical people I’ve ever seen in my life. I don’t think these two girls have been a part for a day in their lives.

Anita Bondy (24:40):

So they, they were very thankful that I was able to help them out and to, you know, to get them. So every day I get thank yous every day I get, can you help me with this? Or can you give my direction on that? So I know that my day to day work is impactful. I’m not the person making the decision on the file. That’s my team is able to do that. So I’m not the person ultimately deciding, but I am the person that if any concerns come up or any accommodations need to be made, or any special circumstances have to be approved, I’m that person that, that has to make those decisions. So I know that what I’m doing is going to be impactful. The programs that I oversee are graduate level programs. So these are not 17 year olds. These are 25 to 30 year old people likely coming from another country who are coming here to Canada.

Anita Bondy (25:36):

So it’s, it could be them bringing their families, it could be them leaving their country for the first time that they’ve, and they’ve never left. It could be that they’re coming from a non-English speaking country. So there are concerns that way. so I get a, I get a very long list of different concerns or questions or you know, can you guide me in this direction? And in many cases, this admission to this program and how they handle their admission to this program could impact the rest of their lives. Because if they are successful in getting in and they are successful in the program they are eligible to apply, apply for a postgraduate work permit. Ah, yep. And if they’re able to get that job and they have a company who’s willing to support them, they can apply for permanent residency. So this could actually really change their lives significantly once they’re admitted to the program.

Anita Bondy (26:34):

And if they’re successful in, in all of those steps. Not every student wants to stay in Canada. Not every student is successful in staying in Canada. but for those who are this could really impact. We have also had students who, you know, parents pay for them to come over to study with the expectation that they’re gonna come back to their home country and maybe take over their family business. So I know that the education we’re providing here is gonna be impactful not only for that student, but could be for the entire family that they are now in charge of because they’re running their family business or, or something along those lines. So I definitely see the work that I do having an impact For sure.

Sam Demma (27:19):

That’s so cool. Thanks for sharing that. There’s so many different ways that the things you’re doing ripple into the lives of the people going through the programs. this is just a question from pure curiosity. Sure. Have you ever had someone, and I know you don’t make the decision a part of your team, does, have you ever had someone not get admitted and then share something, send something, say something, show up and change the result to an admission?

Anita Bondy (27:48):

Absolutely. So, like for example, if we look at a transcript and we see a bunch of failures, right? That’s usually a red flag to us that they likely will not be successful. Cuz if they were not unsuccessful in their undergraduate degree, they might not be successful. So we do have some rules about that, but periodically I’ll get an email from a student saying, you know what, I had a death in the family that semester and my mental health was not where it needed to be and my grades suffered, or I had a medical issue and I was unavailable to write the final exam. So I didn’t fail it, I just, you know, was unavailable. So I do get quite a few of those. If the applicant is able to properly prove what happened, we might reconsider, of course the decision is up to the faculty at that point. but yeah, we have, we have definitely had students who maybe were initially declined that came to us with maybe a personal story that really changed what the outcome was.

Sam Demma (28:51):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I’m a big advocate for solely in a business context or like a, you know, professional context that no, doesn’t have to mean never and stop. It could mean try again in a more creative way or provide the person with value. And even as an educator, keeping that in mind when you’re navigating your own career journey, I think is just something to remember. At the end of the day, it’s humans making the decisions, so. Right. Right. Yeah. that’s so cool. When you think about your, all your experiences in education if you could take that experience, travel back in time, tap Anita on the shoulder in her first year working in education and say, you know, this is some of the advice. I think it would’ve been helpful for you to hear at the start of your journey, right? Not that you would change anything about your path, but what would you have told your younger self that you thought might have been

Anita Bondy  (29:41):

Helpful? I actually probably would change my path. <laugh>

Sam Demma (29:44):

OK. <laugh>.

Anita Bondy (29:47):

 one of the things, so I didn’t start teaching proper teaching until I was in my thirties. Ok. and that’s when I was like, oh my God, this is what I was meant to do. And I, I love it. I love it. So genuinely, if I had to go back in time, I probably would have, I had applied for my Bette at the same time as I applied for my mba. And in my brain I was like, no, I’m a business person. I’m gonna go, I’m gonna do my, my mba. I genuinely wish I would’ve gone the other pathway because I think that, I think that I would have been a great teacher. I think I would’ve been a great grade school or even high school teacher because I connect so much with my, my current students. So that is something that I would’ve actually probably gone back to.

Anita Bondy (30:33):

 teaching at the college came as a fluke as well. I when I was let go from p p and G, they gave us a severance package that included money to go towards schooling. And I said, well, you know what? I need three classes to get my C H R P designation. I’m gonna, I’m gonna go to the college and I’m gonna take three classes. And I got in touch with the professor and he said you know, if you use all your transfer credits, you can actually get a diploma from us with five courses. And I was like, really? And he was like, yeah. So I ended up completing a diploma without intentionally meaning to completing a diploma. And when I was done he turned around to me and goes, Jerry Collins, by the way, is his name. He’s still a professor at St.

Anita Bondy (31:19):

Clair and says, Hey, do you wanna teach for us? And I said, yeah, I do <laugh>. And he, like, as soon as I finished my diploma, he gave me a part-time role. Nice. And I, and I’ve now been teaching at St. Clair for about six or seven years now. So he was, again, all of these things in my life happen as kind of flukes. So I think one of the best pieces of advice that I could give to anyone when you’re starting your career journey is you never know what’s gonna come around the corner. You never know what’s gonna happen. I did not expect to be let go from p and g. I thought that that was gonna be my career, and now I’m in a role that is so much more enjoyable that I’m getting value out of. There are some days when you’re in sales where you finish the day and you’re like, I I didn’t make an impact anywhere.

Anita Bondy (32:13):

Yeah. You know, where did I make that impact? You know, I’m, I, I didn’t connect with anyone. I can genuinely say that in my, in my current role, I think I make an impact to someone multiple times in a week. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, if not daily. So that would be my, my best advice is take every chance that you can to try different things out. Because you never know what’s going to make sense for you. Had, had Jerry not said, Hey, do you wanna teach? I would’ve never thought about applying to teach. And through that, I now have a really good second job that is very rewarding to me. that has really shown me sort of what, what I’m good at. So that would’ve never happened if I hadn’t have taken a different, a different pathway.

Sam Demma (33:02):

Shout out to Jerry

Anita Bondy (33:04):

<laugh>. Yeah, that’s way to go. Professor Collins. Yeah.

Sam Demma (33:07):

<laugh>. Awesome. Anita, thanks so much for coming on the show to talk about your different experiences, your career journey, what brought you to where you are today. If someone wants to reach out, ask a question, get in touch, what would be the best way for them to send you a message?

Anita Bondy (33:21):

Yep. So emails probably the most direct, and it’s just my, my first and my last name. So anita.bodny@uwindsor.ca. I’m also on LinkedIn and happy to answer any kind of questions that anyone has if you wanna get me through that, that medium as well.

Sam Demma (33:39):

Awesome. Anita, thanks so much. Keep up the great work.

Anita Bondy (33:42):

Thank you for having me, Sam.

Sam Demma (33:43):

And we’ll talk soon.

Anita Bondy (33:44):

For sure. Take care. Have a great week.

Sam Demma (33:47):

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.