Educator

Dr. Kate Sievers — Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100

Dr. Kate Sievers — Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100
About Dr. Kate Sievers

Dr. Kate Sievers is the Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100. With 17 years of experience in administration and 12 years as a middle and high school teacher, she has dedicated her career to improving education and supporting students, educators, and families.

Dr. Sievers is passionate about building strong relationships within schools because she believes connections between people are essential for a positive learning environment. In today’s world, where social media and societal pressures can create division, she strives to bring people together instead of pushing them apart. She works to create a school culture that values respect, collaboration, and innovation, ensuring that every student and teacher feels supported and empowered to succeed.

Kate takes the time to listen to teachers and administrators, valuing their input as she makes decisions that always prioritize the needs of students. She is deeply passionate about curriculum and goes above and beyond to find high-quality resources at all levels that enhance learning and help students achieve and show progress. Additionally, she actively writes grants to secure funding that benefits students, ensuring they receive extra support and enrichment opportunities.

Understanding the importance of social-emotional learning (SEL), Kate ensures that all employees have the SEL resources they need while also ensuring students have the necessary support. Through her leadership, she continues to improve education by integrating technology, enhancing curriculum, and securing vital resources. Her commitment to education is driven by a desire to make schools places where everyone feels valued, supported, and inspired to learn and grow.

Connect with Dr. Kate Sievers: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Jersey Community Unit School District 100

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Dr. Kate Sievers.

Dr. Kate Sievers
Good morning.

Sam Demma
How are you?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’m well, I’m well.

Sam Demma
Dr. Kate brings 29 years of educational expertise to her role as administrative superintendent of curriculum and instruction, technology and grants at the Jersey Community Unit School District 100. Combining 17 years of administration with 12 years of classroom teaching experience, she champions relationship building as the foundation for effective learning environments. Her leadership philosophy centers on bringing people together in an

Sam Demma
increasingly divided world, actively listening to stakeholders while prioritizing student needs through curriculum development, grant writing, and comprehensive social emotional support systems for both students and staff. Dr. Kate, thank you so much for coming on the show here this morning.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You’re welcome. I’m glad to be here. Glad to join this morning.

Sam Demma
How did you get involved in, in education?

Dr. Kate Sievers
For me, Sam, it was, um, through coaching. I, my husband and I coached, uh, some elementary basketball teams for a while. And, um, as we grew, we went from elementary to high school and found that our time with the kids, and we didn’t have kids at the time, we were just newly married,

Dr. Kate Sievers
and found that we really enjoyed being with the kids and the families. And so through that love, I got to know the superintendent through the school district that we’re recoached. And I was in the banking industry at the time

Dr. Kate Sievers
and my job was getting located an hour away from our home. And so through that, I’m like, okay, maybe this is a change for me that maybe something else in my life needs to be happening. And so the superintendent approached me and said, hey, would you be interested in doing a long-term sub

Dr. Kate Sievers
for us if that becomes available? And so knowing that my job was changing and I was gonna be unemployed for a little bit and I said, yeah, possibly. So I did that long-term sub and I fell off and I said, yeah, possibly. So I did that long term sub and I fell off and I’ve never looked back. And so since then, 19, that was in 1994, I went back to school

Dr. Kate Sievers
and got my elementary and high school, high school, but it’s two different, way different elementary technology and high school business and taught high school business a little bit. And then I ended up with a K-8 computer position. And that’s when we didn’t even have internet then. And so that was a computer, which you don’t even know. So it was fun. So that’s kind of how I rolled into education. And it’s just been a great, great journey for me.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about coaching basketball. Where did that originate or where did that passion start from?

Dr. Kate Sievers
My husband and I both have been coaches for a long time. He’s been a softball coach for a long time. And when the basketball, I, my love of basketball, we both played basketball in high school. And basketball is kind of my go-to sport. A lot of people have a go-to something. Basketball is my go-to sport.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And loved it in elementary high school. We had some pretty good girls teams at the time that I was on. And just loved being part of the team, part of the culture. And not just for me, but that’s where I’ve learned, you know, I got to know still best friends today. And some great people that mentors and coaches who help make me who I am. And so knowing that that’s, you have such an impact

Dr. Kate Sievers
on a person through that coaching style and what you do as a coach really kind of brought me to that wanting to be a coach and wanting to be a mentor for the students and kids. And so that’s kind of where we both went, he and I. And so since then we coached high school basketball girls for, I want to say eight years, and then stopped to have our family.

Dr. Kate Sievers
We had already had one child and had another one on the way, and it was really becoming difficult. It’s just hard to manage a young family and do all of the running. And so we put a halt on that.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And then he came back years later as a softball coach, just within the last 10 years. And I’ve coached some state level softball teams in our area. So it’s been fun.

Sam Demma
I noticed when you joined the interview today on Zoom, right beside your name said mentor in brackets. Are you still mentoring people in different capacities to this day? And if so, what does that look like for you?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I am. So through the Illinois Principal Association, I am a principal mentor. The expertise, I’ve been a high school principal, I’ve been an assistant principal, I’ve been a superintendent of a smaller school district, and I’m in a larger school district now. And I felt that that expertise, being a new principal, there’s a lot of things that you don’t know, you don’t know.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You just don’t know what you don’t know. And so a friend of mine was being, she was a mentor and I believe still is a mentor. And she’s like, hey, I think you’d be great in this position, you know, this is what we do. And so through her, I was able to become a mentor

Dr. Kate Sievers
through the Illinois Principal Association and have done that. This is my second year and it has been very fulfilling for me. So I hope the people that I’m mentoring are getting just as much out of it as I am,

Dr. Kate Sievers
because again, it is just a way to give back and help those just starting out, just fresh out of the gate. And you don’t, you know, education’s hard and I feel it is becoming harder and harder each year to be an educator. Society just doesn’t have the respect for education that it had before, which makes me sad. And so trying to get some of that respect back and at the same time keeping some really good people in some positions of where they can really impact kids and staff.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And you want to keep those really good people in those positions to bring that and get that respect back to education again.

Sam Demma
When you think of all the questions from principals that you mentor through the Illinois Principal Association, are there any that come up so often among different principals that a principal listening to this might be struggling with themselves? And if so, what are those questions and what are some of the things you typically would share?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’ve only been a mentor the last two years and what’s happened in education as teacher turnover is high right now. And when I was hired in as a teacher 29 years ago, you had, and I’m not exaggerating, you had in a smaller school district, we had at least 30 applicants for a position. And now we’re lucky to get two really highly qualified

Dr. Kate Sievers
applicants for a position in our area, region. And that’s different, you know, regionally it’s different, you know, urban versus rural and we’re considered rural. And so the questions I get mainly recently has been, how do I keep my teachers? How do we keep them to want to stay here, to be at our school? Because sometimes if you’re in a rural area, the urban areas pay a little bit more

Dr. Kate Sievers
and have a little bit more benefits and whatnot to offer. And so how do we keep them there? And I’m gonna go back to what I tell everybody, relationships, everything goes back to, all roads leads back to relationships, whether it’s personal, professional, wherever. If they feel valued and are respected where they

Dr. Kate Sievers
work and want to go there every day, they’re going to think twice about maybe going to another school district or changing professions because I’ve had some teachers who have left. Unfortunately, went to larger corporations because they can work from home, you know, and that society has changed that and what that looks like from many years ago. And so being able to retain our teachers and keep them there because once you get a teacher in the door, you know, you can train them, you know, and it takes a lot with the training and to get them to show the different

Dr. Kate Sievers
curriculums and the platforms that we use. So you want to keep those teachers. And at the same time, though, you want to grow them as professionals. And so if you’re valuing them and you’re respecting them and you’re developing those appropriate relationships with them professionally and helping them grow, why would they wanna leave? So that’s what I have heard over and over and over again.

Dr. Kate Sievers
So we’re hoping to combat that through this relationship building and we’re trying really hard, our best, especially here at Jersey 100 to do that.

Sam Demma
When I visited the school, I felt like the staff were so engaged and involved and welcoming. I had multiple conversations with teachers as well. So whatever the work that you are all doing, I think it’s definitely having an impact

Sam Demma
on how guests feel received in the school building. So keep it up.

Dr. Kate Sievers
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. And it’s just not me. I mean, you have to have a team of people willing to… One person can’t do it. And so, you know, people to build that team of people to say, Hey, we’re committed to, you know, we want the best of the best here at Jersey 100. So what does that look like? How do we do that? And I have a really good team to work with. So I love coming to school and I love working with them. So hopefully that can continue for a while.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you really enjoy serving and supporting along with a team of people. It sounds like that was a similarity when you were coaching in basketball and teaching and now mentoring. Do you think there are some similarities between coaching

Sam Demma
young people and teaching young people? And if so, what are some of those things?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I do. And sometimes coaching and mentoring are one in the same. I don’t know that you can use them to replace one another, but when you’re talking about young kids and you’re talking about young teachers, everybody wants boundaries, okay? And I feel sometimes our society has just kind of left

Dr. Kate Sievers
boundaries off to the wayside. And when I mean boundaries, I’m not talking strict boundaries, but that’s where you earn that respect. And this is what I need you to do as a player. And this is what I need you to do as a teacher.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And as long as they have that relationship with you and they want to perform for you, whether you’re a coach or whether you’re a principal, it comes down to those relationships over and over and over. And I feel that if they continue to want to perform for you whatever position they’re in, whether they’re a coach, whether a player, whether a teacher,

Dr. Kate Sievers
you’re gonna get the best of what you can out of that person. And that’s what you want. That’s what they want. They want to do their best. Nobody wants to do poorly.

Dr. Kate Sievers
They want to do their best. And so trying to pull that best out of them and what that looks like and them seeing the fruition once they do that and show their best and do their best and what that looks like for them, that’s awesome to see that light pop on when that does happen. And the great feeling that they get because you just relish in them feeling good about themselves and what they’ve done.

Sam Demma
And whether it’s mentoring, coaching, or any age, you mentioned that it really all comes back to relationships. When you think about building relationships, let’s say it’s a classroom teacher listening to this conversation and they want to build a better relationship with their students. What do you think are some of the things they could do to build a better relationship with their own students?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I think they just have to get to know them. And I’m going to use you and your friend. You knew your friend like tacos, right? You knew what to cheer them up and he and his wife or partner. And so I feel that if I’m a teacher and I really want to make the most impact and get to know my kids on a relationship level, I really just need to get to know them. I need to know

Dr. Kate Sievers
anything and everything about them that they’re willing to share. And again, on that professional level and those kids that come in with, a lot of our kids are walking in the door with some trauma, Sam, and I know you know that. And how can we help them make their time at school the best possible for them to be there

Dr. Kate Sievers
and to really help and grow them as an individual, not just as a student, I’m talking about as a rounded individual. And then walk out the door with a smile on their face and trying to help them the best we can. But you’re not going to get that unless you really understand who that kid is. Whether you’ve got 10 kids in your class or you’ve got 30 kids in your class.

Dr. Kate Sievers
Does it take time? Does it take effort? Absolutely, it does. And a lot of intentionality. And so through that, I feel that teachers are going to have, they’re going to be able to get as much as they can out of that student and really help that student grow. Again, not just academically, but you know, all in all aspects of their life. Because if you’re making them feel and you’re building them up, not just academically, but in other aspects of their life, they’re going to want to do well and continue to do well, especially when they’re at school or when they’re with you. And so as much as that impact, that relationship impact,

Dr. Kate Sievers
I just don’t know that we could ever put a number on it. I don’t think we can ever put. And I know people have, they’ve done studies on this way, more smart people than me, but it’s just really hard to see unless you’re in that classroom,

Dr. Kate Sievers
how much time and effort it really takes to get to know a child.

Sam Demma
I think about the educators, coaches, caring adults in my life who’ve made a significant impact. And it’s what you’re saying. It’s really the people who got to know me so well on a personal and professional, well more so a professional level, but with some personal details about who I was and what I cared about. And I had a teacher who would teach a lesson and knew the students

Sam Demma
in the class so well that after he finished the lesson, he would point to a couple of us and say, Hey Sam, because you’re passionate about sports, this lesson for you means this. And Olivia, I know you love movies. So for you, the context of this lesson is this. And it was like light bulbs are just going off in kids heads all day long. Um, as a result of that extra step, you know?

Dr. Kate Sievers
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And so for any young teachers coming in, wanting to know how to do that, I think there’s just some great books out there. And I’m not gonna say any or do any plugs off of this at this point in time,

Dr. Kate Sievers
but there are a lot of resources out there for you to really understand kids and trauma and what they’re bringing to your classroom. And I feel as a new teacher and coming into just a different time in our lives, understanding those resources and if kids come up

Dr. Kate Sievers
with a certain trauma, what kind of resources you can help them with and it doesn’t have you know it’s a private conversation between you that you know that student and hey I know this is going on in your life and I can maybe help you with these resources or and just they might make might not take advantage of it but just knowing that you cared enough to help them or offer some help to them goes a long way too.

Dr. Kate Sievers
I feel sometimes we just get too busy and with our, you know, trying to get everything done in our classrooms and whatnot, and we leave that relationship on the side. And I feel that that is just not the best thing for kids.

Sam Demma
You mentioned not giving any plugs, though I will ask, are there any resources or people or things that have been foundational in how you think about education and building relationships? There, I will just say, through our regional office here, in Illinois, we have regional

Dr. Kate Sievers
offices that provide professional development. And you know, it’s speakers like yourself, I’m going to say you’re like yourself, Sam, who come and we’ve listened to and we’ve heard stories and they bring so many ideas to us to say, okay, this is what happened to me, this is my personal story and this is how they helped me. And as educators, we hear that and we’re like, oh, and the light bulb goes on, I can maybe do that for somebody. I feel when we have, when we listen to others and their stories, your personal stories, because a lot of it,

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’m being very honest with you, Sam, are through personal stories. When they share those with us, and they give us real life examples of how somebody helped them or how they were able to get out of a trauma traumatic situation and move on to get through, push through that. That only helps us as educators to give us more tools in our toolbox to say, okay, so this helped Sam Demmer, this helped this, this one. And, and we can say, you know, Henry or whoever, um, this is, this is something that I think would help you, you know, in, in taking those again, having more tools in our toolbox to be able to help those kids

Dr. Kate Sievers
that, um, that do walk in with a little bit of luggage in their backpack. So to say,

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love it. Thank you for sharing and taking the time to speak about your own journey into education, some of the connections to coaching and mentorship, your role with the Illinois Principal Association, talking about some of the challenges with teacher turnover and how the district is trying to address those and the importance of relationships.

Sam Demma
I’m curious, what are you most excited about in education right now as we wrap up the conversation?

Dr. Kate Sievers
With me in education, education just looks a little bit different than what, and I’ll say looking in, you think education looks the same as what it did 50 years ago, 100 years ago. I feel when you walk in our doors, even though we’re still segmented in classrooms, our learning is happening in a way more different structure, at least here at Jersey 100.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You know, we have more hands-on, more STEM classes, more. And I feel that I had a younger brother who loved to work with his hands and mess with motors and do all kinds of, if it was outside, he was outside and didn’t like the workbook, the textbook and all the you know, the regular. And I look at all

Dr. Kate Sievers
of the STEM and the maker spaces and the automotive and the, and the woodworking and the construction that we’re able to offer. And for him, he would have just flourished in that type of environment. And so I feel schools are getting more and more like that. Of course, we have to have our academics, our math,

Dr. Kate Sievers
and our reading, but we’re able then to interweave some of these other types of learning into our educational arena to where these kids come in excited. And I’m looking at some of our high school kids right now who are, I’m going to say,

Dr. Kate Sievers
my trade kids who are going to be your welders and your automotive people and some of your engineers, but they are, they are just flourishing in our, I’ll call it our career technical education wing. And without that, I feel that they, like my younger brother, were like, just like school was hard, I didn that they, like my younger brother,

Dr. Kate Sievers
would like, just like school was hard. I didn’t want to go to school. You know, that’s not something that they enjoyed at all, or he enjoyed at all. And I see these kids coming into school, not missing school and wanting to really, really do well.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so I feel that in education now, especially here at Jersey 100, we’re able to really reach those kids and to get those kids a more foundation. So when they walk out in high school, they know what they want to do by the time they graduate.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so for me here at Jersey 100, I’m like super pumped about that because I will say 98% of my kids, and we’re striving for 100% of our kids, walk out the door at high school knowing what they’re gonna do.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so, and before five or six years ago, that wasn’t the case.

Sam Demma
That’s amazing testimony to the work that everyone’s doing in the system. It’s so great to hear about it. I look forward to continuing to stay in touch and follow the journey. And thank you again, Dr. Kate,

Sam Demma
for taking the time to come on the show here today. It’s been a real pleasure having a conversation with you.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You’re welcome, Sam. Thanks for having me.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Dr. Kate Sievers

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

June 12, 2025 by Education Educator Student Success Superintendent 0

Julie McGillivray — Counsellor at St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School

Julie McGillivray — Counsellor at St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School
About Julie McGillivray

Julie McGillivray has been an educator for over a decade, and she shares her passion for learning with her students. She embraces the philosophy that kindness costs nothing but pays huge returns.

When she isn’t sharing her joy in the classroom, you can find her spending time with her family and dog on beautiful Georgian Bay, dancing like nobody is watching in her kitchen, or perpetually searching for her lost set of keys. 

Connect with Julie McGillivray: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie McGillivrayWelcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie . Julie has been an educator for over a decade, and she shares her passion for learning with her students. She embraces the philosophy that kindness costs nothing,

Sam Demma
but pays huge returns. Julie also kindly organized the Empt Your Backpack Reading Guide and created it to help readers engage more deeply with Empty Your Backpack and reflect on its transformative lessons. When she isn’t sharing her joy in the classroom, you can find her spending time with her family and dog on the beautiful Georgian Bay, dancing like nobody’s watching in her kitchen, or perpetually searching for her lost set of keys. Julie, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Julie McGillivray
Thank you for having me.

Sam Demma
You’re very welcome. Tell me a little bit about what got you into education.

Julie McGillivray
Well, I always wanted to be a teacher since I was a young girl. I think it was having some teachers that really had an impact on me when I was younger. And unfortunately, I did not get into teachers college outside of university. I tried for three years to get into teachers college just after I finished university. And I was unsuccessful each time for a variety of reasons. And I gave up on that dream.

Julie McGillivray
And instead, I decided to pivot and do something else. But it was always in the back of my mind that I wanted to be a teacher. And the year that I was turning 40, I was at my job at a leadership development company, we went into organizations and help them with their communication help teams with their leadership development, we did experiential learning. And I

Julie McGillivray
loved that job. But I was sitting at my desk one day, and I decided, you know what, if I don’t do it now, I’m never going to do it. I decided to take the monumental leap and go back to school. And I went to Teachers College and gratefully was hired when I graduated and I’ve been teaching ever since.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about the mental challenge you went through of changing, making that decision to make the jump because there’s a lot of people that are so worried and scared about making a big change in their lives, but sometimes on the other end of those big changes are beautiful opportunities and things that bring us more joy and fulfillment than we could have ever imagined we would have got in a previous position. Walk me through that decision and how you found the courage to kind of make it.

Julie McGillivray
Well, it was really scary, So I’m grateful that you said, use the word courage, because it was scary for me. I had children, I had three children at home. I had a husband who traveled quite frequently with work. And it meant that my entire family had to make some sacrifices in order for me to go back to school. Because my kids were younger, I knew that I couldn’t go to school full time. I could not go five days a week because they were in activities and they needed their mom at home. Prior to me going back to work, I was a stay at home mom for nine years. So it was really scary to think that I was going to be away from my kids. But I took the leap because I would strongly believe that it’s never too late to make a change in your life.

Julie McGillivray
And to me, teaching is a calling, it is a passion, it is not just a job. And so I just, I felt, I guess, to be, not to sound cliche, but I felt the fear and I did it anyway.

Sam Demma
Yeah. I love the idea of it being a calling and a passion, not a job. I found that I’ve done my best work when I didn’t think about it as work. I thought about it as something I was supposed to do. Like I was using gifts and talents to really be of service in some way. And it sounds like you have the same philosophy around education. Tell me about the parts of the work that bring you the most joy and fulfillment.

Julie McGillivray
Absolutely. It is having relationships with the students. I chose to teach high school. I had an opportunity. I probably could have been hired maybe a little bit quicker because I had an opportunity to teach in an elementary school setting. But I knew that teenagers were really who I wanted to

Julie McGillivray
help facilitate their learning. I think I would have been better there. So I waited, I was very patient, it took me a long time to get hired permanent as a permanent teacher. But yeah, it’s the relationships, it’s seeing kids at a period of time in their life when so much is going on mentally, physically,

Julie McGillivray
they’ve got lots of things happening in their life and just to be able to facilitate their learning is just, it’s so special to me. And when you have a relationship with a child that, you know, you can tell that you matter, and it’s just, it makes all the difference. I’ve always, I was an English teacher before, currently I work in student services and guidance, but I was an English teacher before

Julie McGillivray
and teaching kids, for example, to love reading, to appreciate a good book or a good story and to have their light bulbs go on and say, wow, I really enjoyed that. It just made all the difference. I, I smile when I think about teaching because I know it is hard work and I’m not going to lie. There are some days that are better than others, but truthfully, I love it. I love coming to work every single day. And it’s been like that for, you know, almost 14 years.

Sam Demma
You said building the relationships with the students is one of the most fulfilling parts of the work for you. How do you build that relationship with a student to the degree where they know that you really have their best interest in your heart? And, you know, they open up about things and they really, they feel comfortable around you because I think about the teachers that I really connected with and they really built solid relationships, professional relationships with me. But I like thinking back, I’m trying to figure out how, like what is it that they did that was different? And I’m curious what your thoughts are.

Julie McGillivray
Well, I can’t be anything other than myself. I’m a pretty gregarious person. I am an extrovert and I do really like to chitter chatter. But I think that kids, particularly teenagers, but all kids really, they can smell when they, they can smell it when it’s not. And so I can, I don’t have a blueprint other than being myself.

Julie McGillivray
And so I know for me, for example, having someone say good morning to you matters. You know, I know for me, having someone smile at me and acknowledge me and see me matters. And so that’s what I try to bring into my classroom. And it’s not always easy. But I do think that every single person that enters a classroom is deserving of respect and is deserving of the opportunity to shine in their own way. And so my job as an educator is to help them recognize that little things like I don’t know, I like to talk to my students, I asked them every day in my class, we would have a question to end the day. It could be whatever. What’s your favorite color? If you were an animal, what would you be?

Julie McGillivray
And just to spend that five or 10 minutes that’s not focused on curriculum, but actually focused on them as a student or as a person, I think that that matters. Kindness costs nothing but pays huge return.

Sam Demma
Those two actions of greeting somebody or complimenting somebody are things that are free of monetary cost but can have a big impact. Tell me more about that philosophy about kindness costing nothing, but paying huge returns.

Julie McGillivray
You know what, Sam, my mom, uh, God bless her. She passed away a few years ago. I was blessed to have my mom in my life for 93 years. Well, she was not mine. I need to be 93. Um, but my mom was kind to everyone that she met. And to me, I think it’s just that simple,

Julie McGillivray
that everyone is deserving of your kindness. And it really takes no time at all to smile at someone and say something nice. So I always used to tell when I did teach in grade eight, I always used to tell my students that every time you open your mouth, you have an opportunity to make someone’s day or break someone’s day. And that’s a very big responsibility for us all as humans. like it’s all rose-colored glasses and pie in the sky, but I do believe that small acts of kindness can go a long way, particularly for students that might be struggling outside of school.

Julie McGillivray
They might not have a family life that is conducive to building them up. And so you can make all the difference by being a caring and supportive adult, somebody who’s just kind. So that’s my philosophy.

Sam Demma
You were talking about your mom. And I instantly thought of my grandfather who always was looking for those opportunities to make somebody else feel special and appreciated and included and valued. And I just know how much of an impact it had on those people because long after he’s gone, they’re still talking about it.

Sam Demma
You know, like I visit family and they’ll bring up my grandfather’s name and he passed away when I was 13. It’s been over a decade now. And I think that we underestimate how much of a difference those acts of kindness can have on other people. Have you had, aside from your mom, mentors or people in your life who showed you that level of kindness as well that really guided you down your path or supported you through challenging moments? I did actually, I had a university professor, I was in my second year of university. Her name was Dr. Oh, gosh, it’s been so long. I think her I know her first name was Nancy. She passed away. But I was struggling to make ends meet financially. And when you’re an English major, you need to read an awful lot of different novels, and they’re not always available in the library. And I went to her office, and I said to her, it was just this one book that we needed to read that

Julie McGillivray
I was I just didn’t have the funds to purchase the book. And I just went to her office and asked her if she could possibly loan me one copy so that I could stay up with the reading. And she told me to come back the next day to her office. And so I did. And when I got there, she was not in her office. But her, the person that was working there said, Oh, Oh, Dr. Bailey was her name. Nancy.

Julie McGillivray
Is it funny how when you go through a story, the names pop back in your head? Yeah. I guess her assistant said, Dr. Bailey has left this for you. And it was a bag and it was full of every one of the books that the course had brand new. She had purchased for me and I’ll never forget the card said, please accept this as a token of my respect and friendship. And it meant the world to me because the fact that she had so many students and she was so busy and she didn’t really know me,

Julie McGillivray
I was just, you know, it was kind of new in her class and she just, it made such an impact on me. So when I graduated university, I was so excited when I saw her across Johnson Green. I went to Guelph University and when I saw her across Johnson Green, I’ll never forget it. I got, it was, she’s the one professor I have a picture of on my graduation day and I introduced her to my parents and I was just so grateful for that small act of kindness. I did not, I did not need all of those books. I only needed the one, but the fact

Julie McGillivray
that she went above and beyond just meant the world to me. So definitely a mentor and to be honest, I have so many mentors in my life, colleagues that I work with that are so helpful. Going back to teacher’s college at 40 years old was not easy. And entering the arena of education as a woman with graying hair, working with students or other teachers that were maybe, you know, they could be my kids. It was very humbling experience. And so I had to ask for help and they were so gracious. So I’ve had so many acts of kindness given to me.

Julie McGillivray
It only makes sense to pay it forward.

Sam Demma
Your story gave me goosebumps. It’s such a- I haven’t thought about it in a long time actually. That’s such an impactful story and I appreciate you sharing it. I think that again, we sometimes underestimate how those actions have an impact on others. And you know, here we are years

Sam Demma
later talking about it and haven’t thought about it. But when I asked you that question, it pops in your head. And I just think that the world would be a much better place if everyone operated from that level of energy where they’re looking for ways to help others or if there’s a call for help that we do answer it.

Sam Demma
When you think of your journey through education, what are any of the resources or people while you’ve been in this school for the past 14 years that have been really helpful to you? Are there any additional mentors or resources that have shaped your thinking around working with young people?

Julie McGillivray
I’ll tell you, I think that leadership is really important in school and I have been extremely blessed to work with administrators that are, they don’t just talk the talk, they walk the walk. So yes, I had at the beginning of my teaching career, I was fortunate enough to work with an administrator who provided me opportunities to grow and challenge myself as a teacher. And that could, that was by the way of giving me, you know, courses that maybe I hadn’t thought about teaching before, although I was qualified for them, I was, you know, scared to maybe approach the subject matter.

Julie McGillivray
And seeing something in me and giving me an opportunity that maybe I wouldn’t have done myself because I would be too fearful. So that is a real blessing. Scary. I haven’t taught the same, I mean I tend to teach different courses every year and so that was hard because sometimes you know you want to get something down and you want to be able to perfect it and so sometimes I found it challenging but I’m looking back really grateful for the opportunity to do

Julie McGillivray
new things and different things. Wasn’t always, didn’t always feel that way when I had to do all of the planning. But I’m grateful for those leaders and mentors. I also had a department head when I first started at this school who was instrumental in providing me with a safe and compassionate space to talk about, you know, some things that maybe I was struggling with

Julie McGillivray
being a new slash old teacher. And that colleague of mine, I’m happy to call a friend right now and saw something in me and was able to provide me that safe space. So surrounding yourself with people that you can be your authentic self with is, in my opinion, just so important

Julie McGillivray
to our own growth and development. And so that’s why in my classroom, I’m really mindful of providing a safe space for students to be themselves.

Sam Demma
I always tell people in my life that old is not an age, it’s an energy. And you have young energy.

Julie McGillivray
Gray hair.

Sam Demma
Hey, I’m starting to get gray hair too, and I’m only 25. So it has to be an energy or else I got to start dying it. I don’t know what’s going on. This has been such a lovely conversation, Julie. I really appreciate you taking some time to talk about your beliefs about education and building relationships with students and staff. The idea of kindness costing nothing, paying huge returns, and sharing a few personal stories. I am a fan, and I will continue to follow your journey. And if someone else is listening and wanting to reach out and connect with you, another educator, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Julie McGillivray
Probably by my email only because I’m that old that I’m not big on social media.

Sam Demma
That’s okay.

Julie McGillivray
I work for the Halton Catholic District School Board happily and you can find me there.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much for coming on the show, Julia. I really appreciate your time and all the hard work you’re doing.

Julie McGillivray
Sam, thank you so much for writing an amazing book. Thank you. It’s helped my students immensely and thank you for all of the work that you do.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Julie McGillivray

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 29, 2025 by Counsellor Education Educator School Counsellor 0

Marc Iturriaga — Executive Director of the Mohawk Students’ Association and founder of Bonobo Consulting

Marc Iturriaga — Executive Director of the Mohawk Students’ Association and founder of Bonobo Consulting
About Marc Iturriaga

Marc Iturriaga is the Executive Director of the Mohawk Students’ Association and founder of Bonobo Consulting, whose mission is highlighting the importance of fostering belonging within our society. He holds a Bachelor of Arts degree and a Master of Arts in Leadership. 

Marc started his career as a student leader in both Campus Rec and Residence Life, and upon graduation, he worked as a Program Coordinator for national and international youth development programs, an International Program Coordinator for the University of Toronto, a Residence Life Manager for McMaster University, and eventually back into Collegiate Recreation as an Intramural Coordinator for the University of Waterloo, eventually leaving after 13 years as the Associate Director of Recreation and Business Development. Marc has served as the Recreation Program Manager at Mount Royal University and the Executive Director of the Genesis Centre, a multi-purpose community complex acting as a recreational, cultural, social and educational hub of the community in the most culturally diverse quadrant of Calgary.

Currently in his role as Executive Director for the Mohawk Students’ Association, Marc is on a journey to ensure students are supported, have a voice, and feel like they belong in their higher education experience.

He’s a family man, cat dad, LEGO master, Comic nerd, and basketball enthusiast who can pretty much identify most 80’s shows by their theme song.

Connect with Marc Iturriaga: Email | Instagram | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Mohawk Students’ Association
Bonobo Consulting

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by a special guest. Marc Iturriaga serves as Executive Director of the Mohawk Students Association and the founder of Bonobo Consulting, leveraging his extensive higher education experience to champion student belonging and support. His diverse career path includes roles in international youth development, residence life management, recreation coordination, and executive leadership at community complexes like Calgary’s Genesis Centre.

Sam Demma
With a master’s in leadership and commitment to fostering inclusive environments, Marc brings both professional expertise and personal passion to his work, balancing his dedication to student advocacy with family life, Lego building, comic book enthusiasm and basketball fandom. Marc, thank you so much for being here on the show today.

Marc Iturriaga
Oh, Sam, thank you. That’s got to be the wickedest intro I’ve ever heard for myself. I got to write that down. That was awesome. Thank you for that.

Sam Demma
Just let me tour with you when you go to these events.

Marc Iturriaga
Done.

Sam Demma
Tell me and the audience a little bit about who you are and what got you into working with young people and in the world of education.

Marc Iturriaga
Yeah, so my high school career and elementary school, I was a good easy student. So I skipped a grade. So I was always the youngest in my grade school came easy to me, didn’t need to try high 90s in high school, and decided to go to University of Waterloo for actuarial science. So I really loved math. And then first year university hit and my whole world changed.

Marc Iturriaga
We talked about being from Pickering. So I had a culture there that I was experienced and comfortable with. And then when I hit university, whole new world of different people, music, lived experiences. And let’s just say my first year university experience wasn’t great. It started off with maybe failing four of nine classes and maybe I would have failed that fifth if I hadn’t dropped it. And a lot of that came not from, well, part of it was, you know, attendance and those pieces. It wasn’t that I couldn’t handle it. It was I was just involved in this whole new world and I loved it. So I was getting more involved with intramurals. I started reffing. I started working on campus and joining clubs and different pieces. And though I got my marks back on track and I switched, you know, course loads to something a little bit more down my line because I realized I didn’t want to do math for the rest of my life. Actuarial science is the business of insurance. Nothing’s more boring to me than that. But as I got more engaged and involved with the people around me, yeah, I just realized how interested I was in people. So I became a student leader and it was those opportunities that came my way, some by luck, some by, you know, a little bit of grit and determination, but I had so many different experiences in my university career that led me to say, hey, I can actually do this for a living, and that’s what really brought me into those things. So I started off maybe wanting to go to teacher’s college. I worked at a private school as a dorm master when I first graduated, which led me to go, I don’t want to do formal education anymore. So I’m out. Great, great experience, but it’s one of those things you learn what you don’t want to do sometimes is a valuable experience. And then from there, I worked with youth programs. And then I got back into higher ed, where I was in residence manager and all those pieces. And I realized that I had a lot of influence and impact in those positions with young people and students and realizing you didn’t need that formal teaching piece. I love teachable moments. I love just like being in the moment with students and learning together. And I think that’s the biggest piece about what brought me here and to where I am today is that I’ve worked for institutions for most of my career. This is the first time I’m really focused 100% on working for and with the students in my role. And it’s just so rewarding. And really for me, as long as it involves students and youth in a leadership capacity, and let me preface that by also saying, I believe all students are leaders, just by taking a journey of education and just growth, that is leadership to me. Yeah, nothing could be more rewarding. And I think the coolest part too is, so I’m 50, I just turned 50. I still feel like I’m 27, because I feel like I’m older than the students that usually I work with, but not that far removed, but I realized now that I am. But it is, I still learn from, from my experiences working with them as much, you know, it’s corny, but they give me as much as I give them. And it’s just an awesome journey. And I don’t think I would ever not do anything that doesn’t involve the youth and students in some way.

Sam Demma
Teachable moments. Can you walk me through what that means in your mind, or what one of those has looked like in your own life or the life of a young person? And the reason I ask is because I believe that curriculum is secondary to those teachable moments, especially the moments I remember most when I was a student were not when my teacher was standing and teaching us something at the front of the classroom, but when they pulled me to the side of their desk and talked me through something that really mattered to me. So tell me more about that.

Marc Iturriaga
Yeah.

Marc Iturriaga
So it’s about outputs and outcomes. And I stress this a lot. My staff and students would go, oh, here goes Marc again with outcomes. Curriculum is an output, right? The outcome is the learning, right?

Marc Iturriaga
The realization, the reflection, the growth of the individual. The outputs are teachable moments and tests and all these pieces. My experience has been those teachable moments are the ones where we’re most successful in achieving those outcomes of growth. And you’re right, it is about that one-on-one conversation. I’m a one-on-one guy. I really love the sit down chats and all that. And I know the best way I’ve learned, even though I was so great.

Marc Iturriaga
I mean, I was great at taking tests and book learning, writing essays. Like I felt like I gamed the system because I just knew how it worked, but the true growth for me was sitting down with someone, especially when I failed, who sat me down and really helped me reflect and understand, okay, what happened here? Did you achieve your outcome? So for me, actually, one of the biggest learning moments that I really said, okay, this is how I want to be engaged as a mentor, is I remember I had a task, I was working in a youth program, I had to find host families. And I was there four months, I found five out of nine host families thought I was doing good in the first month. Cool, the rest will come to me. And then within two weeks of the program, three of them had quit. And now I got two host families, I need nine. And I got a group of students from all across Canada and Ecuador about to arrive on a bus, and they needed a place to stay and I didn’t have it. And it took my boss and mentor who came all the way down, it was up North in Kapuskasing, so they were from Toronto, they had to drive all the way up. They didn’t do it, there was no Zoom, right? They weren’t doing a phone call.

Marc Iturriaga
They knew I need to talk to you one-on-one. And they sat me And so I said, but I did this and I did that and go, all great. Didn’t work, did it? So you need to change gears. Your outcome is you need those families. And they started saying, you need to go on the, on the radio. You need to go talk to pastors. You need to do whatever you can. And I realized those were things like, I kind of don’t want to do that. And it’s like, yeah, but you gotta. And that’s what it took.

Marc Iturriaga
And it was really that hands-on conversation that really made me realize that that’s what I want to have when I speak with individuals and staff and students is that teachable moment. So what is happening in the moment and sitting down and going, let’s reflect on that.

Marc Iturriaga
And it’s not about what answers I have, it’s what that individual sees and understands and reflects on their own experience to go, yeah, you know, you’re right. Because my boss wasn’t telling me anything I didn’t know already.

Marc Iturriaga
It’s just, I didn’t want to do it. And so again, that flow, and sometimes it just takes that person. And so that’s where I say too, that that relationship is both ways. And so I’ve got to earn that trust when I have that moment with others. And that’s a huge piece to say, hey, you’re trusting me to sit you down and walk you through your experience. That’s pretty important too. And so that’s, again, it’s about that interpersonal connection. That’s why I love the teachable moments.

Sam Demma
When you think of your experiences as a university student, maybe in that first year when things were not going the way you expected them to, were there any individuals that provided mentorship to you, that redirected your path? And if so, who were those people and what did they do for you?

Marc Iturriaga
Yeah, one was my mom who just took it and understood. I was so surprised how much she did not berate me. You know, you know, you accuse me of like, well, what are you wasting our money on? You know, and all those things, you know, understanding. And I know she was disappointed, but just that, knowing I had someone in my in my corner that way and saying, you know what, I trust in the past, you figured this out. I’m going to give you the space to figure this out as well. I’m sure I got a couple of conversations that were, you know, a little bit more on the what are you doing side. But it was giving me that space to figure it out. And I greatly appreciate that. The other was, I would say it’s observations of friends that I saw of realizing where they were going and what I could learn from their lived experience and realizing how different that was that I didn’t feel pigeonholed to say, well, I have to be doing X because that’s what’s expected of me. It was about that freedom to go, hey, there is a Y. Let me figure that out. And that was when I realized I learned. And it wasn’t first year university. It was actually second year when I actually had to move out due to my living arrangements. I had to find a new place to rent from and I found a whole bunch of new guys to live with who I didn’t know. There were different programs. And one of them just said, saw me just kind of sitting around and going, what are you doing? And it’s like, I don’t know, like I’m just going to class. He goes, go do something. And one of the things that brought me on my journey too was he actually said, well, you should get hooked on crack. And I was like, what? Now, let me preface that is the Campus Rec Advisory Council, C-R-A-C.

Marc Iturriaga
All right.

Marc Iturriaga
So he knew I liked basketball. He knew I liked, you know, get involved. So just come on this. So it took that invitation of I didn’t know I could get involved that way. And that was my stepping stone to get it and I was highly involved in high school so I don’t know why I didn’t check it out at university but it was that invitation from a roommate that got me involved and that’s where I met my future boss in an intramural coordinator as a student so he was kind of my mentor through that time giving me more leadership opportunity and to the point where when I did some roles in the like residence life and all that I was looking for a permanent role and he called me when I got married. He called me and said hey I’m going to teacher’s college you want my job. I went uh sure so he walked me through and that’s what got me on my kind of larger career for a long time was with athletics and recreation and campus recreation. And that was a you know there’s a 13 year with just the University of Waterloo but is where I’m involved now with a lot of other organizations, still my passion and yeah it all came from that personal invitation from a leader. And that’s the other piece about curriculum. Curriculum doesn’t invite you to anything. It just gives you the info.

Marc Iturriaga
It just gives you the data. It’s the people that invite you, that welcome you, that include you, that help you in that growth. That’s the power, and you’re right, like curriculum, it’s just a book. And you can get lots of insights from book, but there’s so much that an inanimate object doesn’t do for you in your growth and education that an individual does.

Sam Demma
The title of this episode, How I Got Hooked on Crack. Of course not, but it’s too funny. You said, knowing I had someone in my corner, those are the words you use to describe your mom’s impact on you when you were going through university.

Sam Demma
And I think that’s a beautiful way to position it for any relationship with somebody who’s supporting you. When you truly know someone is in your corner, you can have the difficult conversations because in your heart, you know, they’re doing it. They’re trying to share these things with you for your best interests. And they have your genuine best interests in their hearts too.

Marc Iturriaga
How do you build a relationship with a staff member or a young person to the point where they do know, yes, this person is in my corner and is rooting for me? It’s hard, right? Because I think the biggest thing is that it takes time. It takes consistency, right? You got to behave that way constantly. And the one time we used to say this a lot in Resonance Life is they don’t remember the nine times that you were there for them. They remember the one time that they let you down, right? And so and that comes from that, you know, role modeling, and hey, we’re all human, we slip, we make mistakes, you make bad judgment calls. But it’s got to be that consistent, you cannot say, hey, I got your back. And then two seconds later, not, right. And so how do you create intentional interactions and pieces that demonstrate, I got your back, right? And that is more importantly, usually through failure than it is through successes. It’s easy to celebrate success and going, you rocked that, you’re awesome. It’s when they failed and they go, I failed you. And it’s like, you have not failed me or anyone. You learned, hopefully.

Marc Iturriaga
You’re gonna fail me if three, four more times you continue to repeat the same mistakes and not get to where we need to get to. But those are all learning pieces, right? And that’s the most important. So when did my mom have my back the most is when I was failing, not when I was being successful.

Marc Iturriaga
Cause when I was successful, she was kind of like, you got this, I can help you. It’s when we’re at our lowest that you need someone there to either support you, push you, do something to say, you got this. Because in the end, it’s I got this, right? I have to have it. I can have all the mentors in the world holding me up and trying to, but if I’m not going to do the work to actually get to where we need to go, it’s not gonna happen. So it’s like, they’re the support, but you still gotta put in the work, right? And that’s where I know I did. I put in the work to get to where I am.

Marc Iturriaga
There’s a lot of luck. There’s a lot of privilege as well. I get that, but there’s also a lot of work and a lot of learning along the way that if I didn’t take those opportunities that when those supports times were happening, yeah, I may not be where I am today.

Sam Demma
My favorite authors is a gentleman named Jim Rohn who’s passed away now, but he said learn to celebrate in the spring if you’ve planted really well in the fall and and learn to accept if there are no fruits in the spring or the summer that it’s because of your own previous actions and that the beautiful thing is another season will arrive where you can change the choices you make and hopefully reap a larger harvest. And I always think about that when I examine and reflect on my own life and how things are playing out and luck and privilege play a huge role, but labor does too.

Sam Demma
And most of the time our list of reasons why things aren’t working out doesn’t include our own name. And that’s like, it’s important that we put our own name on there if we want things to change. So I appreciate you sharing some of that as well. Tell me a little bit about what your role looks like today. You’ve worked in many different positions, and now you’re with the MSA.

Marc Iturriaga
So the coolest part about this role is that I was hired because I have an expertise, a lived experience that really relates to the operational pieces of the student association. So that is designing programs, having staff that support the student journey. Where a big gap was, was learning about student government and what that looks like.

Marc Iturriaga
Over the last four or five years, I’ve had a crash course in that. And the cool thing is I learned from so many different people that a lot of the work that we’re doing right now is ensuring that our outcomes are what are important, not our output. So our outcomes is that students have voices that students are supported.

Marc Iturriaga
And the more we look at those outcomes, we can start looking at some of the structures and systems that maybe are barriers or constraints for there’s some gaps that are preventing us to get to those outcomes. The other cool pieces is doing that collaboratively. So though I’m tasked to look at these things, I can’t do it on my own. I’m not going around saying, I know how to fix this, here’s this. It’s about making sure that if I’m going to fix a problem, I need the people with the lived experience to come and talk to me about it. I need to hear their voices. I need to see other lenses. I need to see diverse opinions. I need to see opposite opinions to really help us do that. So right now, our focus is on how do we, especially at you know in Ontario and the the university and college system being affected by international student enrollment, there’s a whole new lesson of learning to happen that we need to do together because we have so many people with different touch points with students and their needs that I can’t, I can’t assume I know the needs of every student there, it’s impossible. We need others in our circles, in our relationships to help us define that and help us move forward. So that’s what I really appreciate about my role is that I’m still learning. I’ve always said, and I used to tell students that, if you’re in a student role, like a job or a leadership role, and you think you’re not learning anymore and you’re just going through the motions, I can’t use you anymore because it’s time for you to move on, time to give that opportunity for someone else right and the kicker is there’s always something to learn but it comes back to that what you said who’s putting in the labor and the work to do that it’s easy to go I did this before go through the motions but then you’ve lost the outcome, right? You’re just focused on outputs. And so when we start losing sight of that, it’s time to move on. And I’ve done that with student leaders to say, hey, maybe time for you to take a break because I could use some other, even though it would be easier to have them because they know what they need to do and they already know the task. But I love, you mentioned too that, what I love about, especially higher ed is that cyclical nature. You got a term and things didn’t go right, hey, you got a new term. You got a new term and it’s not for everyone, but I love it because every new term we can go back, what did we do well? How can we repeat that success? Hey, what did we not do well and what can we work on that? Again, it always changes because the next generation of student comes in and those needs change every time. And so we need to be nimble. We need to keep learning and that that’s exciting. That’s what I love.

Sam Demma
I feel the passion coming through the mic for this this podcast. So you’re in the right position. You’re doing the work you’re supposed to be doing. It’s obvious and I appreciate you spending some time sharing your journey through education, some of your beliefs around building relationships with young people on the podcast.

Sam Demma
Keep up the amazing work you’re doing at the MSA and just know that I’m rooting you on and I’m excited to just continue following the journey. If there’s someone listening, Marc, and they wanna reach out to you, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Marc Iturriaga
It’s a Mohawk Student Association. It’s, you know, my first name, last name, I’m on the website. You can see us at, you know, https://mohawkstudents.ca/.

Marc Iturriaga
Yeah. But for me, outside of that, I do work with a higher ed organization, sports organization to help foster that sense of belonging amongst, you know, especially young people, but it is with Fostering Belonging and staff, and they can reach me at bonobo-consulting.com. And I love to talk, you know, help organizations really understand that impact they have when it comes to fostering belonging.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Marc, thank you so, so much. Keep up the amazing work and we’ll talk again soon.

Marc Iturriaga
Awesome. Thanks, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Marc Iturriaga

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 27, 2025 by Educator Entrepreneur Executive Director 0

Meagan Morris — Vice Principal at St. Joseph High School in the Ottawa Catholic School Board

Meagan Morris — Vice Principal at St. Joseph High School in the Ottawa Catholic School Board
About Meagan Morris

Meagan Morris is the current Vice Principal at St. Joseph High School in the Ottawa Catholic School Board, where she has served for nearly 25 years. Her career with the OCSB has included roles as a classroom and resource teacher, coach, guidance counsellor, and administrator. She has a particular passion for supporting students in grades 7 and 8.

Meagan is a firm believer in servant leadership and is deeply committed to supporting others in achieving their full potential. A strong advocate for extracurricular activities, she has coached the school’s Girls on the Run program, among other initiatives. Meagan believes that student success is rooted in positive relationships with every member of the school community, and she strives to create an environment where students feel seen and heard. Recently added to the OCSB principal eligibility list, Meagan is eager to continue her leadership journey as a principal.

Connect with Meagan Morris: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joseph High School
Ottawa Catholic School Board

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Meagan Morris. As Vice Principal at St. Joseph High School in Ottawa, Meagan brings nearly 25 years of diverse educational experiences to her role, having served as a classroom teacher, resource teacher, guidance counselor, and coach. Her dedication to servant leadership and particular passion for supporting intermediate students has shaped her approach to creating an inclusive school environment where relationships are at the heart of student success. Recently added to the principal eligibility list, Meagan continues to demonstrate her commitment to fostering student growth through both academic support and initiatives like Girls on the Run. Meagan, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Meagan Morris
Thanks for having me, Sam. I appreciate it.

Sam Demma
Do me a favor, share a little bit about who you are with the educator listening to this and how you got into education.

Meagan Morris
Okay, so I am actually born and raised in Ottawa and I am a product. I work for the Ottawa Catholic School Board but I’m also a product for the Ottawa Catholic School Board but I’m also a product of the Ottawa Catholic School Board. So from K to 12 or OAC back then, I attended schools in the OCSB and you know when I was graduating high school I wasn’t really sure about what I wanted to do,

Meagan Morris
which is not unusual for high school graduates. And I had a friend who encouraged me to apply to the concurrent education program at Queens. And he said, if you don’t get into the teacher’s college portion, you’re still gonna do an undergrad at Queens. And so I applied thinking,

Meagan Morris
this could be a good opportunity. And through the application process, you have to identify your work that has supported education, you know, in jobs and volunteering. And by going through the process of the application, I realized just how much work I had done with youth, and how that was an area where I felt comfortable, and it was sort of an area that I was drawn to. So I ended up being successful and I did the concurrent education program at Queens, but then I still wasn’t convinced

Meagan Morris
that I wanted to be a teacher. I just, I think sometimes when it’s too obvious, you tend to doubt it a little bit. Yeah, so I took some time and I took a year and went traveling. And I actually was offered a teaching job

Meagan Morris
by email when I was in Thailand. So I was in Thailand. Yeah, I was backpacking through Thailand. And a principal emailed me to offer me a position. And I was skeptical at first. I wasn’t even sure I wanted to go back to Ottawa.

Meagan Morris
I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I remember going out for dinner with a group of backpackers and mulling over the idea. And to them, it was a no brainer. I mean, this was a career that I was going to be starting and it was secure and it was a job and I hadn’t had none of that. So I said yes. And I started in 2001 and never really looked back. So that’s how I got into teaching.

Sam Demma
You mentioned that you traveled. Did you travel because people in your life told you you should? I think that travel is such a beautiful opportunity to see the world, expand perspectives, build our personality and character. Tell me a little bit more about that decision.

Meagan Morris
You know what? Actually, it was a bit of the opposite. Nobody encouraged me to travel. And it was something that I think I just felt like I needed to do. Partly, I think, because at the risk of sounding cliche, I just wanted a new experience that would provide me with a different perspective. And I felt like, you know, this was an hour and ever opportunity and I had no one to go with. The timing didn’t work out well that I could have friends who would could travel with me.

Meagan Morris
They were starting careers and things were happening. So I actually went by myself. And so I traveled through New Zealand, Australia, Southeast Asia, all on my own. And that was such an incredible experience. And I remember my parents being quite nervous about me going. I was still relatively young, I think I was about 23.

Meagan Morris
And my mom actually kept copies of all the emails that I sent her. And I recently, she gave them to me, I recently read them. And it was such an incredible time in my life. And I, and to be honest, I was really scared. I remember getting off the plane in the first country I landed in New Zealand and not having a clue about what to do and just made my way and it was, it was really cool.

Sam Demma
That’s how a lot of educators feel in their first year working in a school. They’re trying to figure it out. You have this passion and this idea and this motivation to get started. And then when you land in the classroom for the first time, you’re like, whoa, this is new. I got to figure out the next step I need to take. And I think it’s the same for any new experience that we have. When you think back to your first year teaching or working with young people, maybe it was even outside of the school walls, what advice do you think you needed to hear that in hindsight you could share with a person who’s just getting started in education now?

Meagan Morris
You know, I did get good advice in my first year because you are right. Your first year of teaching is like no other. And I think the advice that I got was not to be so hard on myself. So it was to invoke a bit of self-compassion because of course I was going to make mistakes. I was going to deliver lessons that would flop. I was going to mishandle classroom behavior.

Meagan Morris
There were things that were gonna happen that I was certainly not expected to do perfectly. And instead of wasting time and energy on doubting myself and chastising myself for not handling it maybe in a way somebody else would, I needed to just forgive myself and move on and learn from it. And I had a resource teacher that worked with me and she had quite a few years of experience and she was the one to say, you need to just put it in a box and move on and forgive yourself and take what you can from it, but don’t beat yourself up over it. And I think that’s the biggest piece of advice. Nobody wants you to be perfect. They just want you to try.

Sam Demma
You mentioned when you were filling out the application for teaching, you had this reflective moment where you realized I’ve done so much with youth already. I’ve worked with so many youth. 

Meagan Morris
Yeah. And I was really young, like, I think I was probably 10 or 11. And I had moms in the neighborhood probably thinking I was a lot older than I was asking me to watch their kids. And it just came natural. I mean, I gravitated towards the energy of kids. And just the feedback that I got, because there’s so much, you know, there’s so little restraint in terms of the positive and the negative. But then that moved into positions where I was working at afterschool literacy programs.

Meagan Morris
When I was in high school, I was doing sports camps. I was lifeguarding. I was doing all of these things that just, you know, I sometimes just fall into. So one experience would get me the next and often I was tapped on the shoulder.

Meagan Morris
And it was just a really happy place for me to be around that energy. And I remember my mom telling me that that was a bit of a gift that I have. And I guess I didn’t see it because when you’re looking at it from the front end,

Meagan Morris
it can be overwhelming to look at all your options. But in this case, it’s proven to be the absolute right decision.

Sam Demma
It sounds like serving others is a philosophy you follow, whether it’s working with initiatives like Girls on the Run or wanting to help and support young people, and now even the staff in the building. Where did that idea of, or philosophy of servant leadership originate for you in your life?

Sam Demma
Was there a role model or, you know, I think of my grandfather when I think about servant leadership, and I think that’s where I got it from. Where did that philosophy start for you?

Meagan Morris
It started with my parents. And my parents were, my parents are both retired now, but they were civil servants, but they believed in civic duty. They believed in being part of a community. They were great neighbors.

Meagan Morris
They are excellent friends. And they instilled in me, and it’s something that I have three kids of my own and it’s something that I share with my kids. And I can remember my two things that my parents would say to me, are one to be true to yourself. And the other was to give more than you take. And the idea that we’re put on the earth not to be takers, but to be givers. And that, you know, we have to share this space with billions of people, and we don’t have the right to take away. We have a responsibility to give. And that was the message that I got from my parents regularly. Certainly they said it, but they acted on it. So it 100% came from my parents. I have a brother who’s a criminal prosecutor. I have another brother who’s a criminal prosecutor. I have another brother who’s a police officer and my other brother’s in civil service. So we were just taught that that’s the way you operate.

Sam Demma
I love the value of giving more than you take. I also think that a lot of happiness and fulfillment comes from the providing and giving more than it does the receiving or taking in my personal experiences. So I think it’s a really big win-win scenario where you feel really good about the work you’re doing and so many other people benefit from it.

Meagan Morris
But 100% and I think that’s what makes it a vocation, right? Is that you believe in the work that you’re doing. And we know, I mean, there’s, we know that people, you know, get so much satisfaction by contributing, by being a contributing member brings that level of purpose and satisfaction that gives your job, quote unquote job meaning, you know?

Sam Demma
Yeah, you have a particular passion for supporting intermediate students, you know? Yeah. You have a particular passion for supporting intermediate students, grade seven and eight students. What unique challenges do you see in this specific age group and what opportunities exist for impact?

Meagan Morris
So when I first started teaching, I was teaching at the intermediate level. So I taught at the intermediate level for 10 years. And I taught at a school that was, we consider a family support school. So there were a lot of economic challenges.

Meagan Morris
There were a lot of socioeconomic needs. And that was new to me. Like I was a suburb kid who back in the nineties when I went to high school, it was predominantly white. And so I didn’t have that experience with diversity. And so I remember leaving that school and saying that, the students at this school taught me more than I could have ever have taught them. And particularly at the intermediate level, they’re really finding their way. They’re not elementary level, they’re not K to six level in the sense that they’re still following rules because the rules are in place. They’re starting to question things, they want autonomy, they’re dealing with hormones, they’re dealing with interpersonal skills, they’re thrown in our case with our board being a seven grade seven to 12 model, they’re technically thrown into a high school and learning to navigate that. There are so many challenges that it creates a sort of perfect storm of potential behavior, but also for growth. And they’re still young enough that they are so impressionable.

Meagan Morris
So it’s a great time to take even those behavioral moments, even, you know, dysregulated actions. It’s an opportunity for learning. And I just feel like they are really special. A lot of people can be intimidated at that intermediate level for all those reasons and can shy away. But I just think it’s a really special time because they’re really in flux. And so it’s so important that they have people in their lives that see them and hear them and validate what they’re going through.

Sam Demma
You’ve worked as a teacher in intermediate and junior high, high school. You’ve worked as a coach. You’ve also worked as a guidance counselor. How has your experience as a guidance counselor shaped your beliefs around leadership today and ensuring students feel seen, heard and supported?

Meagan Morris
So that’s a great question because when I first, you know, as I was moving through teaching, my end game was always to be a guidance counselor. I didn’t envision myself being an administrator, it was sort of the leadership piece that moved me in that direction. But my real passion was that sort of guidance, counselling support.

Meagan Morris
My undergraduate degree is a psychology degree. And so at some points, I thought about going in different directions and maybe pursuing a master’s in psychology, but in the end I went the teaching route and so it lent itself really well to being a guidance counsellor. and it just the perspective you get when you are able to have some one-on-one time with students and understand them, understand the motivation behind their their choices and their successes and and perhaps lack of successes is so important because you can you put things in perspective and you also remember that you’re teaching and working and supporting the whole student, not just the academic side. And I think in the classroom, sometimes teachers don’t know the whole story. I think it’s important to get to know your students, but sometimes you don’t know all the details. But I think teachers have to assume, you always have to assume that there is something you’re working with.

Sam Demma
It’s that backpack.

Meagan Morris
It’s the, and I, and that’s why when you came to our school and gave your presentation, I thought this is resonate so well with me because everybody has a backpack, everybody has something. And they’re never going to be able to work with that backpack unless they feel like somebody understands what’s in it. And a guidance counselor, being a guidance counselor, I would also say that being a guidance counselor before being a vice principal has given me a level of empathy, which is needed. I mean, you know?

Sam Demma
The question I’m curious about, and I think another educator might be thinking the same thing, is how do you build that trust and relationship with a student where it gets to the point where they’re comfortable sharing with you as the caring adult, some of the things that are in their backpack? I think there’s a lot of educators that would love to be able to support their students. And not that every teacher can be a counselor, that’s not possible. But for them to have some of that context would be helpful.

Sam Demma
I think that there’s something special about guidance counselors and the way they approach those conversations that enables those students to feel safe and feel supported. What are your thoughts on building relationships with young people?

Meagan Morris
So I think, you know, sometimes what we do is we rely on our own experiences with school. And a lot has changed. And our experiences, and that’s one thing that I learned, my experience was completely different than a lot of the students that I came into contact with.

Meagan Morris
And I think it’s really important first to be vulnerable, to understand that I’m not teaching them necessarily. Sure, there’s things that, there’s curriculum that I’m teaching them, and I’m mentoring them, them and I’m supporting them and I’m an example in the classroom, but we’re kind of learning together. And so you have to be vulnerable enough to show them that we’re learning together. I’m learning about you. I’m learning about who you are, how you learn, how this works with you. So I think you have to be vulnerable. And one thing that I always say to teachers that I work with is you can’t take behavior or dysregulated actions as personal. It’s not about you. We know that every student wants to succeed. And when they’re not succeeding, it’s because something is happening that is preventing that. And nine times out of ten, it’s not about the teacher. And so you have to have that level of unconditional support.

Meagan Morris
And when they know that you’re still going to be there after they’ve had a dysregulated moment, or they’ve, you know, done something that’s not appropriate, if they know that you’re still going to be there, then they start to trust you. And then that’s not appropriate. If they know that you’re still going to be there, then they start to trust you. And then that relationship starts forming. But at the end of the day, it can be, behavior in a classroom can be frustrating.

Meagan Morris
It can be exhausting. It can be, you know, but behavior comes from somewhere. And understanding that it’s not about us really takes the pressure off us, but it also helps us to continue to support those students.

Meagan Morris
And that’s how you build relationships is by having them see you as somebody they can trust.

Sam Demma
I’m assuming one of the other ways you build trust with young people is giving them some time. Is that one of the reasons you got involved in extracurricular activities, running programs, like girls on the run? Tell me more about when in your career, you started getting involved in more extracurricular activities and what prompted that?

Meagan Morris
So when I first started teaching, I was a phys ed teacher. So that lends itself to a lot of coaching. And it’s actually a nice segue into counseling because when you are a phys ed teacher and you’re a coach, you are always seeing students in an unstructured environment. A phys ed class in grade seven and eight can be organized chaos. So you’re often seeing students in their natural habitat. And so it allows you a way of getting to know students in a way beyond curriculum delivery. And coaching also lets you see the skill set that students may not be able to demonstrate in the classroom. They can show, you know, when they’re on a team or when they’re part of a club, they can demonstrate leadership, they can demonstrate teamwork, they can demonstrate collaboration, compassion, all of those things. And so I got started out of necessity, because when you’re a phys ed teacher, you coach. But then I never really left it. And I had the opportunity this year to run the Girls on the Run program, which is basically a run program for students who identify as female. And in addition to training them to run a 5k, we also work on the social emotional side.

Meagan Morris
So you do a little bit of running, a little bit of internal work, and then it culminates in a 5k race. So super empowering. And I think it’s just, especially now as a vice principal, it’s so great to be working with students in a proactive role instead of a reactive role.

Sam Demma
That program sounds amazing. I remember when I was graduating from elementary school and starting high school that I ran cross country for the first time. And some of my fondest memories from elementary school and starting high school that I ran cross country for the first time. And some of my fondest memories from elementary were running the perimeter of the fence in our schoolyard after the school day ended with our cross country teacher. We didn’t have the social emotional learning aspect of it, but I enjoyed those moments and I remember them a lot. I’m sure you’re creating moments like that for all of the girls for all the students who identify as female students in that program. So that’s has it been around for a while? Is it a new program?

Meagan Morris
Well, apparently it’s been around for a long time. It started in the United States, but it just recently came on our radar at the OCSB. There was a principal in the elementary panel who kind of put it out to the OCSB and a bunch of us jumped on it. And it’s really, really cool. But I mean, I agree with you, we know that getting involved in extracurricular has protective factors, right? It supports mental health, and it supports well being. What’s happening in the classroom, obviously, is paramount. But those are the things that students remember. They remember extracurriculars. They remember field trips. They remember those connections They made with their coaches and their club, you know leaders That’s what makes and you know, if we learn nothing from Kovac that’s what makes the high school experience what it is because When we don’t have that we’re not having different forms of connection, which is so important.

Sam Demma
As you prepare for this next step, I know you’re a vice principal now, you’re filling in as a principal this week. As you prepare for that next step, what vision do you have for creating a culture that balances academic excellence and strong relationship building?

Meagan Morris
Well, I think like you mentioned in the introduction, I do believe in servant leadership. And that does come back from what I know. But I think when you are leading a school community, it’s like an inverted pyramid. And the administration is actually at the bottom of the pyramid.

Meagan Morris
And our job is to be of service to every level above us. And that’s your staff, that’s your students, that’s the family, that’s the community. And so that is going to help those relationships build. And that is going to get the best out of your school. Like right now, I’m responsible for supporting the intermediate panel, which is a love for me. But one of the things that I’ve done this year is I’ve done a monthly lunch and learn. So we have a lot of new teachers. And I recognize that, you know, when you’re in a really big school, like we are, it can sometimes be hard for new teachers to connect with mentors. So once a month, I bring everybody together. We order pizza, we hang out and we talk about different topics, because I know that if I’m supporting the teachers and the teachers feel like we have a solid relationship, they feel seen and heard. That’s only going to translate to the connections those teachers are building with students and their families. So my job really is to make sure the staff is in a healthy position to do the best and to do right by the students that they work with.

Sam Demma
That whole concept of inverted pyramid is such a powerful way to think about leadership, not only in the context of a school, but any organization. I really appreciate you sharing that. For anyone listening to this who wants to ask you a question or reach out and connect, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Meagan Morris
Well, I shared my Instagram, but also I would almost say email. Email is the best. Yeah.

Sam Demma
We’ll make sure to pop that in the show notes for anyone listening. Meagan, this was a lovely conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time, sharing your journey into education, some of your beliefs around building relationships with students and administration. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Meagan Morris
Well, thank you, Sam. Well, thank you, Sam. I really enjoyed it too.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Meagan Morris

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 22, 2025 by Education Educator Vice Principal 0

Tony Bisceglia — Principal of James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School

Tony Bisceglia — Principal of James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School
About Tony Bisceglia

Tony Bisceglia combines his roles as an Urban High Priority Educator and coach with entrepreneurship, while being a father of four. His dedication to education in high-priority urban settings, alongside his entrepreneurial spirit, shapes his multi-faceted approach to making an impact – and while he didn’t invent Pickleball, he’s certainly enthusiastic about it.

Connect with Tony Bisceglia: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Tony Bisceglia, Principal at JCM Cardinal McGuigan, one of the best schools. They are a high performance athletic school, the only one in the Toronto Catholic District School Board, which we’ll talk about during the interview today.

Sam Demma
Tony combines his roles as an urban high priority educator and coach with his entrepreneurial spirit while also being a father of four, his dedication to providing education and high priority urban settings alongside with that entrepreneurial spirit shapes his multifaceted approach to making an impact. And I hear that he also loves pickleball. So we’ll figure that out.

Tony Bisceglia
Tony, thank you so much for being on the show today. Sam, thanks for having me. That’s a great introduction. I appreciate it. You know what? Always great speaking with you. Remember when you were here last year motivating our student population, they loved you. You’re a massive hit, motivator, mentor, role model. So love talking to you whenever I can.

Sam Demma
Please take a moment, introduce yourself and let the educator listening, let them know a little bit about who you are and why you got into education.

Tony Bisceglia
Yeah, so I think you hit the nail on the head in the intro. I’m a multifaceted individual. I definitely consider myself an educator, but it’s not my only role. Being a father for me is for sure the most important role that I hold or the most important title that I have.

Tony Bisceglia
And then beyond that, being a teacher, principal, educator, coach, sports enthusiast, entrepreneur, it all sort of meshes in together. So it’s a fabric and you know any good fabric when it’s woven neatly and tightly together usually produces something really good. And I think you know over the years over my 30 years of being an educator next year will be my 30th year. I can’t believe the time flies that fast, but it’ll be 30 years. I’ve experienced a lot and there’s been a lot of changes in the world, obviously. I think, you know, a lot of markers that for me and my life in the world, you know, COVID being one of them, and you know, the world definitely changed post and pre-COVID or different times. So, yeah, I think I’m a multifaceted individual and my main goal in life is probably to leave an impact. And as I get older, I wanna make sure there’s a legacy.

Tony Bisceglia
I wanna make sure that I leave a mark and I wanna make sure that I leave the world a better place than when I got here. And that’s the goal each and every day.

Sam Demma
You know, it takes a lot of effort and intention and energy to do one thing well, and you’re doing multiple things well. Where does that passion come from? Where does that drive come from? Tell me more about your a little bit about your upbringing.

Tony Bisceglia
Yeah, so you know what people people ask me that all the time. They’re like, how do you do it? And you know what, I am a high energy individual. I can’t sit still. I’m not the type of person to, you know, a lot of people say, hey, what’d you do this weekend? It was snowing outside and people are sitting on the couch and that’s not me. I just, I can’t sit still. or something that I grew up with. I think I had role models who were high achievers. My older brother, who’s six years older than me, was definitely a high achiever and a busybody. My dad, who was an entrepreneur, was definitely a high achiever and a busybody. He would never let us rest on weekends. We always had to be doing some kind of work, whether we went to work with him or work around the house.

Tony Bisceglia
But there always had to be, um, you know, something getting done, right. So we couldn’t be relaxing. I don’t know if it’s an immigrant mindset because obviously my dad immigrated with my mom from Italy and they had that, you know, we’ve got to make it in this new country mindset and that gets passed down. Um, so I definitely feel that I have that immigrant mindset that you want to achieve, that you want to do better.

Tony Bisceglia
You want to make your parents proud. You want them to know that, you know, all the effort that they made for us, their children, was worth it in the end. So I think that’s where it comes from. I think it comes from having really good role models in my family. And then my grandfather, who was a military, you know, almost a career military guy, he spent seven years in Africa during the Second World War. He traveled, he was really, he was well-read. He met, you know, icons of history and, you know, would retell these stories of meeting, you know, world leaders, you know, good and bad, you know, Benito Mussolini, who was the fascist leader of Italy, meeting him, meeting some British generals in Somalia, meeting Libyan generals, just pretty amazing stories. It’s a history book.

Tony Bisceglia
I’d hear those stories all the time, so they were pretty inspiring. That’s where I think I get my drive from.

Sam Demma
At what age did you venture into entrepreneurial pursuits?

Tony Bisceglia
So I think it was, you know, pretty much all my life from whenever I can remember, I actually remember selling a, this is before your time, but you probably know who he is, Hulk Hogan, who was a big wrestling guy. I would sell t-shirts. So I would go to a local mall. I lived at, at a Jane and Wilson I go to Sheridan mall and I’d get t-shirts printed of Hulk Hogan and they say like Hulkamania and all this type of stuff and I’d buy cheap t-shirts at a place called by way get the shirts printed with the Hulkamania and Hulk Hogan logo and I’d go to school and sell them in the schoolyard. So and I was pretty sure I was in grade five, grade four or five doing that. And I don’t know where that idea came from, but I specifically remember doing that. And I think that was the start of my entrepreneurial journey.

Tony Bisceglia
And I’ve had a million businesses since landscaping, restaurants, sports camps, day trading, you name it. I think I’ve done it. Good and bad because I had a lot of failures, but those early failures was really my education in entrepreneurship.

Tony Bisceglia
It was a school of hard knocks. Nothing like losing money to teach you a lesson. And I lost my money in the early days and I’m thankful for that. And I learned, I learned a lot of valuable lessons by losing that money. And that was my education in entrepreneurship. Then I got some formal education too.

Tony Bisceglia
I got a master’s degree in leadership and supervision. And I’ve got other courses, business courses from universities, Queens, Western. But I would say that the real experience that I gained is in operating businesses operating businesses and just, you know, hitting, hit the ground running, uh, good or bad, losing money. And that’s where I learned to be a good entrepreneur.

Sam Demma
It’s one of our backs against the wall where we learn the most. I think, you know, you succeed, you, you continue forward without reflection. You have a challenge or a failure. You, you pause and ponder. And sometimes those situations are even more helpful than a win because you change nothing. And it sounds like you’ve had a fair share. And within business, you’re operating with lots of other people. You’re building relationships. And that really ties into your work as an administrator at a school. You’re managing a team of staff. You’re interacting with students all day.

Sam Demma
When it comes to managing others, humans are so complex. We have our own, we all have our own diverse set of needs and how we like to be communicated to. What are some of your philosophies or ideas around leadership that help you work with and manage other people effectively? What do you keep at the front of your mind when you’re dealing with people? Well, I’m sort of the opposite.

Tony Bisceglia
I buck the trend on what a leader should be, because the modern leader is like a collegial leader who wants everyone’s input. And I got to be honest with you, if you want to run a really good organization or a large organization or a business, a school, anything, the leader has to have a clear vision and it has to be a determined vision and that means you’ve got to go with what you believe in and you’re not always going to be able to take other people’s input. You’re not always going to be able to sit down at a table and say, hey let me hear everybody out. If you want things to work and you want to get things done in a timely fashion, you have to almost be a militant type leader and I’m not saying you’ve got to be a bad person and treat people badly because I don’t believe in that.

Tony Bisceglia
I believe you treat everyone fairly, but if a person is, is not going to pull up their socks and do what you need them to do, those people should not be part of your organization. And it doesn’t matter what kind of organization it is, whether it’s a business, whether it’s a government institution, you need people to be on the same page and who are willing to go down the river with you, right? Willing to fight battles with you and they need to believe in that leader and the leader leads the charge from the front.

Tony Bisceglia
And if you don’t have a leader who’s willing to put everything on the line and say, hey, here’s the vision, I’m going to lead us into this battle and we’re going to win this battle. If you don’t have a person like that leading the organization, this is where you see a lot of failure, especially mature type businesses or organizations. So for me, it’s it’s you know, you’re either getting on board or you’re getting off the ship. It’s one of the two. And like I said, I think, you know, in today’s world, there’s a lot of niceties and we’re trying to sort of appease everyone. We’re trying to make everyone happy and it just doesn’t work, unfortunately, if you want to be successful. Now, if you want to be mediocre, that’s a different story. And we see a lot of mediocre schools, a lot of mediocre businesses, a lot of mediocre individuals, because those are people who are willing to settle and not really drive their dreams. You know, like, look at you, what you’ve done. It’s incredible.

Tony Bisceglia
Your story, right, from getting injured as a soccer player and now being, you know, this internationally recognized speaker all over the world, traveling to Africa. It’s pretty incredible for a young person like you, but you have to believe in yourself to do that. I’m sure you had a lot of naysayers, but if you weren’t steadfast and headstrong, that you were going to achieve what you’ve achieved and you were confident in your own abilities, you never would have been where you are today on this platform. Kudos to you for doing that because I honestly do not see a lot of young people being the type of risk takers that you are and what you’ve done. So I admire everything you’ve done. So keep it up.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it. Big time. Talking about niceties. One of my favorite lecturers and speakers is a gentleman named Jim Rohn. And he said, everyone talks about affirmations, but they only work if you affirm the truth. He said, if you’re, if you’re broke, you should wake up every single day, look in the mirror and say, I’m broke. And, you know, and, and if you, if you face reality, there’s an opportunity for you to change. And, and he would always say, you know, show me your list of reasons why things aren’t working out. And most of the time people don’t include themselves on that list. And that’s one of the major issues, you know, the things in the world don’t change unless we change. And it’s, it’s a hard pill to swallow, but if we want to make a shift in some area of our life, it has to come back to ourselves and our choices and our actions. Um, I have a little team now, four or five people. And I found that if someone’s not, you know, tightly tied into the vision that I’ve shared with them, it’s really hard to motivate them and get them excited to work, you know, and they gotta go and we’ll find another person. Speaking of mediocre versus high performing, your school is one of the high performance athletic schools, one of the only, or the only only in the Toronto Catholic District School Board.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about what that means and how it’s had an impact on the school population, enrollment, and even students’ excitement.

Tony Bisceglia
So it’s been an incredible adventure. It’s something that I wanted to do for a really long time, having, you know, four kids involved in pretty high level sports. I’ve always tried to find a space for them that was a high performance academic athletic institution. So I would look at examples around the world that have succeeded like IMG Academy in Florida, you know, Bill Crothers up in York region, who have taken student athletes and really nurtured them to be the very best they can be to make sure that they excel in whatever it is that they’re doing, whether it’s sports or academics, and that we graduate individuals who are more than just competent. They’re high achievers in their sports and in their academics, and they on to get you know D1 scholarships, D2 scholarships, maybe play professional right out of high school but basically we nurture those high achievers and I think you know there’s a place for everybody in the world not everyone needs to be a high performance athlete and we have programs for those kids and I think everyone has different interests but for me having a serious interest in sports, it appealed to me to create that kind of environment because I didn’t see it in Canada. I didn’t see many of them in Canada anyways. I would say Bill Crothers in York region was really the model for most of the rest of us high performance schools in the GTA. So kudos to them for having that vision and getting that off the GTA. So kudos to them for having that vision and getting that off the ground. But in Toronto Catholic, we are the first high performance athletic high school, and we focus on basketball, soccer, volleyball, and every year we’re expanding into other areas of sport. But our main goal is the student athletes, student being the primary focus, athlete being secondary. But knowing that high performance athletes may train up to 20 hours a week, we’ve got to make some accommodations, we’ve got to adapt some things for those kids.

Tony Bisceglia
We’ve got to support them to be the best student athletes that they can be. Because you can’t be an Olympian, you can’t be a professional athlete, you can’t go to D1 without support, with some support from your high school and from your high school teachers.

Tony Bisceglia
And teachers got to buy into that. And that’s the culture we’re trying to build here. We’re trying to really focus in on the kids from this community, particularly the Jane and Finch community. We’re taking kids who may have raw athletic ability and we’re trying to refine those skills and make them the best student athletes that they can be. And, you know, student being very important, they’ve got to maintain a 70% average. And the program has been a real hit. It’s been a success. Our enrollment has gone up 35% since we introduced this program. So the school is, is exploding.

Tony Bisceglia
It’s, it’s, you know, bursting at the seams. Because we place a real emphasis on each individual student and what their individual needs are. And the communities recognize that. And it’s been successful because we have a caring, nurturing culture in this school.

Tony Bisceglia
And that’s what separates us from other schools. Not to say that other schools don’t care about their kids, but we take it a step above. We’re taking it to the next level. And we’re trying to make contacts for these kids in universities, in post-secondary, with pro teams like TFC.

Tony Bisceglia
We have a student who’s on the under-17 national team soccer, Elijah Roche, and he’s a fantastic defender, one of Canada’s top defenders, and I guarantee you’ll see him playing internationally soon with a big club. So we have students like that real high achievers, and we support and nurture them to be the best they can be. I kind of wish I was able to attend the school during the program when I was a high school student. Right? It sounds like a place because you are a high performance athlete. But I think in those days, you know, we weren’t focusing on nurturing and supporting student athletes the way that we are today. You know, and I think, you know, that kids today have a real advantage if they’re in a program like ours. If their real dream is to play D1 football, then this is the place for them because we’re going to support them in that dream. We have an academic coordinator that meets with them every single week to focus in on their academics, to make sure that they’re doing well. And if there’s an issue, that academic coordinator is on the phone with a parent, a coach saying, hey, we’ve got to do something here. There’s an issue. So, you know, we tackle issues before they become bigger issues. So, to your point, if you would have had a program like this, you’re successful already, but who knows what could have been. And then you had an injury, and we support kids through that too, because that’s a reality of playing sports, right? That injury comes with another impact, the psychological impact, and we support them with social workers and CYWs, child and youth workers, to get them through those tough times. So yeah, really good program.

Sam Demma
It sounds like it. And I’m glad to hear it’s having a very positive impact on the community. The focus on the student athlete and the academics not slipping or sliding is so important as well. My, my parents really drilled that into my mind when I was a young kid, Sam, you got to make sure that you, whatever your hands touch, you do the best with it that you possibly can. If that means doing your homework, do the homework the best way you can. You touch the soccer cleats on the field, play the sport the best you can. And I’ve kind of carried that mentality through my life.

Sam Demma
And it’s helped me because yes, certain things are more important than others, but everything matters and the way we do one thing is going to seep into all the other things that we do. So not allowing those other aspects of life to slip is really helpful, you know, especially for young people that are focused on sports 24 seven. I’m curious when you think about building relationships with students, you know, a lot of educators want to build solid relationships with their students and lot of educators wanna build solid relationships with their students and as they do, the student is more engaged in class and paying more attention. How do you think you build a connection with a young person?

Tony Bisceglia
So I think it’s gotta be authentic. And I think for me, the way I built connections when I was in high school was by playing sports. So being on the soccer team, being on the football team. Just for me, the after school activities were as important, if not more important. I would say for me, they were more important than being in class.

Tony Bisceglia
Classes is important, but traditionally speaking, you know, most successful people in the world, and there’s data to support this research, weren’t A plus students. They weren’t the kids who had a 95% average. They were like C, C plus students, B students maybe.

Tony Bisceglia
But they were kids who were well-rounded, who played sports, who had other activities in their life. So I think teachers really need to go back to and focus on, because this is what’s lacking in education today. I think when really need to go back to and focus on, because this is what’s lacking in education today. I think when I was in school, I had teachers who taught because they actually loved teaching or coaching. My teachers were coaches, they were ex-CFL guys. And they wanted us to excel in sports, but they hammered us in the classroom. They made sure we were on top of everything. But they said, hey, you’re gonna be a practice today practices at four Don’t be late or you’re gonna be running for an hour and we respected that today that’s lacking and for whatever reason and I don’t know if it’s you know, again, I don’t want to blame social media for stuff You know, he was to Gary Vanner Chuck. He says, it’s not social media that’s the problem, right? And I don’t think it is. I just think, I think the world has changed, but coaches have changed too. Coaches can’t be as hard as they were on athletes because mom and dad’s gonna come to their rescue.

Tony Bisceglia
Like every little thing a coach does is questioned now. And for me, and I’m a parent of a bunch of athletes, of my kids, when my kids are playing, I don’t get involved. The coach can say whatever they want. Whatever the coach does, obviously, I’m trusting that coach to be a good leader, to be a good mentor, to be a good coach, to speak with them with authority and maybe firmness even.

Tony Bisceglia
But I’ve got to trust that coach, otherwise I shouldn’t be there. I can’t be second guessing everything the coach does, the lineup, the strategy, the tactic. I can’t be questioning that. Otherwise I shouldn’t be there. But in today’s world, every parent is a former athlete. Everyone says, I played, I played in high school.

Tony Bisceglia
You know, we’ve got coaches who actually played pro, who maybe played in Europe, who played in the MLS, or wherever they played, right? So you’ve got to trust those people. If you’ve enrolled your kids in that program, it must be for a reason. You like the program, you like the club, you like the coaches, and then all of a sudden, you know, you register, you get on the field and you start yelling at coaches, or like right after a match, you know, this is why a lot of people don’t coach anymore, especially in high schools. We don’t have enough teachers coaching because of the grief, right? The, you know, parents might give them or the other kids might give them. So like we got to get back to, and I don’t want to say get back to the basics, but I mean, the, the relationship that a coach and a student has a student athlete is very different than the relationship, a geography teacher in a student has very different. And you can’t build that same relationship in a classroom, especially in a traditional classroom, you know, a Socratic type of classroom where a teacher’s giving you information, spewing out facts, and you’re just absorbing it. There’s nothing stimulating about that. You know, whereas on the field, I feel like, you know, there’s stimulation between the interaction with the coach, the team, especially in team sports.

Sam Demma
I can speak from personal experience. I built some of my closest relationships with coaches or with extracurricular activities where they were there to push and guide and support and provide feedback that I was very excited to receive because I wanted to improve. And unless I was very interested in the subject and really wanted to excel at it, I found a lesser connection to the staff member or teacher that was in the room, and some of the teachers that had the biggest impact on me just really took a interest in me as an individual and, and got to know what my life was like outside of the classroom. And I think that made all the difference for me too.

Tony Bisceglia
I agree, you know, because you feel that, Hey, that teacher wants to know about me, not just as a student, not just the facts that I memorized that teacher wants to know about me, not just as a student, not just the facts that I memorized. That teacher wants to know who I am as a person. What do I, what do I like? What are my interests? What do I want to do in the future?

Tony Bisceglia
And if you know, someone cares about you that way, you’re going to reciprocate. You’re going to give back.

Sam Demma
You’re going to give that effort on the field, this has been a very stimulating conversation. I appreciate your time and your insights and the ideas. It’s lovely to hear about the success of the high performance athletic program at the school. Keep up the amazing work. I look forward to seeing Elijah Roche playing nationally or internationally and the rest of the athletes to see them succeed in school life and their own set of goals. So you’re doing a great job. Keep up the amazing work and we’ll cross paths again soon.

Tony Bisceglia
Thanks. And same to you. Keep inspiring the young people all over the world. Now, all the things you’re doing everywhere, Africa, the U S Canada, just keep it up, man.

Sam Demma
Thank you very much.  

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tony Bisceglia

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 15, 2025 by Educator Principals 0

Ryan Wamser — Director of School Improvement for ROE #40 and Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub

Ryan Wamser — Director of School Improvement for ROE #40

About Ryan Wamser

Ryan Wamser has taught middle school Physical Education, high school drivers education and health, been a high school Assistant Principal, an elementary principal, assistant Regional Superintendent, and a district Superintendent.
He is currently the Director of School Improvement for ROE #40 as well as the Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub. Ryan is passionate about helping to support teachers and administrators in any way possible. When not working, Ryan loves spending time with his wife Michelle and their four kids.

Connect with Ryan Wamser: Email | Instagram | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

ROE #40
Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub
Ryan Wamser

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Ryan Wamser. Drawing on experience from teaching to superintendency, Ryan now serves as both the Director of School Improvement for ROE 40 and the Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub. His diverse career spans middle school, physical education, high school health and driver’s education, building leadership as a principal and district leadership as a superintendent.

Sam Demma
A passionate advocate for supporting educators at all levels, Ryan balances his commitment to educational excellence with family life alongside his wife, Michelle, and their four children. Ryan, thank you so much for taking the time today to be here on the podcast.

Ryan Wamser
Thanks, Sam. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Sam Demma
Tell us a little bit about what got you involved in education and why you’re passionate about it.

Ryan Wamser
Well, it’s one of those things that as a kid, I never saw myself doing anything else. My dad was a teacher, taught for 22 years, was a middle school science and math teacher, my older sister’s a teacher, my mom was an administrative assistant working for a regional office of education. So I grew up, you know, learning how to shoot a basketball and learn how to walk through the halls of a middle school. Got to see the impact that educators had on kids

Ryan Wamser
and on colleagues and community. When I was 12, my dad passed away, actually in the middle of coaching. He was a, he coached year round for the school that he taught at and actually passed away in the middle of coaching a volleyball game. So got to, you know, obviously that was a traumatic situation for a 12 year old, but got to see the impact that education had on his students and his coworkers. And I still get to see his impact today because time doesn’t go by where somebody doesn’t come up to me and ask if I’m Jim Wamser’s son and they have a little story to tell me or some sort of thing that happened when they were in school that they credit to my dad for them getting into education. And so it’s just one of those things that, I always say that that was probably the worst time of my life was being a 12 year old kid whose dad collapses in the middle of a volleyball game and passes away.

Ryan Wamser
And then luckily I didn’t go to the school that he taught at, but I was at the neighboring school where, you know, his best friend was the superintendent. His other best friend was my principal, you know, all those people that were there that were friends of his. And I got to experience what, you know, education is about and the community that it brings in. And, you know, I always say it was the worst year of my life in school, but in some respects,
it might’ve been the best year of my life in school because I got to really experience what education can and should be and what teachers mean to kids like me that I wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you today if it weren’t for those teachers when I was 12 years old who wrapped around me and made sure that I was taken care of.

Ryan Wamser
And so it’s just a little bit something that I try to give back every day to make sure that I’m leaving even a little bit of a mark that my dad left on his community and his friends and kids who are now grown adults and give them back as well.

Sam Demma
It sounds like your dad made a really large contribution to every person he crossed paths with. And it made me think a little bit of my grandfather who passed when I was 13. It was the first time I ever attended a funeral, very different from losing a father, but losing a family member was tough. And I’ll never forget the stories people told me. There was one lady that told me that my grandfather, when he had cancer, would still show up to her house and shovel her driveway and bury her hamster in the backyard when she asked him to. All these random little things, right. And I wish I could have captured more of those stories and, and just wrote them down in a journal or something. I’m sure you’ve heard so many over the years that you were completely unaware of that, that you didn’t even know your dad did those things. Are there any that bring you an immense amount of pride and joy that you might want to share one, one or two on the podcast here today?

Ryan Wamser
Yeah, there’s a lot. Just recently, it’s funny, my son is 13 and he’s gonna be in high school next year. And the teacher that he probably will have for biology, not too long ago, it was a few months ago, she stopped me and she said, you know what, I’ve, we’ve talked numerous times, but I never put two and two together that who your dad was. And I said, yeah, she goes, well, the reason why I’m a biology teacher and a science teacher is because of your dad. And it’s just one of those things, like, you know, you have conversations with people and you don’t put two and two together, but it’s just, those are the kind of things that, you know, give me solace in the field that we have and the education that we have that even, you know, this person who was, you know, happened to be his student, you know, when they were in eighth grade, you know, in science class at Bell Valley, you know, junior high, that, you know, that person went on to be a science teacher because he helped instill that love of science in them. And so those are just little, little things that every once in a while catch me off guard because, you know, you never heard that story before, somebody didn’t feel like, or didn’t have the opportunity to share. And so I just, that’s one of those things that I think that in education, especially that we as educators have to make sure that we remember the impact that we have on kids and on our community. And, but we also need to make sure that not forget to share with those educators and those important people in our lives, how much they, they mean to us too, because you know, there’s sometimes we forget to do that. And so, you know, we may not always hear the impact that we have, but we can at least make sure that others hear the impact that they have on us.

Sam Demma
This is your reminder mid podcast to pause the show. Go on your phone, search up that contact that person you haven’t let know how big of a contribution they made in your life to just call them and tell them, um, I’m already thinking of someone I’m going to call after this podcast ends.

Ryan Wamser
It takes two seconds to shoot a text message or, um, you know, I’m not a Facebook guy, so I get, I don’t have those connections, but it takes two seconds to send somebody a direct message, uh, shoot them a text message. even those people that I consider to be closest friends and I go, man, I haven’t talked to that person in months or we haven’t had an extended conversation with.

Ryan Wamser
And it’s just, it’s hit home, especially in the last, lots of things have hit home, especially in the last five years, but it’s been one of those things that to make a conscious effort, to be intentional about those relationships and making sure that we’re reaching out to those people because you know may not have the opportunity to.

Sam Demma
You’re someone who has served nearly every level of education from teacher to superintendent. How have the different roles you’ve served shaped your understanding of what schools and educators truly need to be successful?

Ryan Wamser
Well, when you read off my list of my experience, I still consider myself to be a young guy. I know I’m not, but it makes me just think I can’t hold the job down when you list everything. So, you know, that’s my running joke is I can’t keep a job. But, you know, I think it’s really, it’s changed. My perspective has changed, especially, you know, post pandemic and what we should be doing.

Ryan Wamser
You know, I grew up in a kid’s first household. Like literally my dad was coaching year round and he never, you know, he was at school more than he was at home. You know, he was up at 5 a.m. dragging the ball fields because they had a softball game that afternoon. You know, he, you know, wasn’t at my games because he was coaching games. And it’s one of those things that, you know, 10 years ago, you know, 22 years ago when I started in my career, we all talked about, you know, kids first, kids first, kids first, kids first. And everything was about making sure we did everything for our students, everything for the kids that we interact with. And I think my perspective has changed in 20 years, 20 plus years that, you know, we can’t do anything for kids if we’re not taking care of ourselves as the adults in the building. And I joke, but it’s true.

Ryan Wamser
If five years ago I was doing a professional development for teachers and I walked in and said kids aren’t first, kids are second, and the adults in your building, if I told a group of principals, the adults, the teachers in your building were the most important thing in the school, I would have probably been run out of that. Because it’s like, that’s very self-centered and why would we talk about the adults being the most important thing? But at the end of the day, if we’re not taking care of ourselves and we’re being taken out on a stretcher in the middle of a game or from our office, or who’s gonna be there to step up and help kids if we’re not taking care of ourselves?

Ryan Wamser
So in order to put kids first, we have to put ourselves first. And I think that perspective has really changed as teacher, administrator, superintendent, and the work that I’ve done, that my job is now to try to pour into our educators and make sure that they’re taking care of themselves because the impact is there, but at the end of the day, like, this sounds crude, but, you know, on January 4th, 1994, when my dad died, on January 5th, 1994, the eighth grade kids at Bell Valley South School still had math class. Like, school continued. It didn’t shut down. Yeah, his colleagues were sad. Kids were dealing with it. We had the funeral, we did all that, but school continued. And so, but he wasn’t there to be there. So we have to take care of ourselves because this is going to go on with or without us, and we need to make sure that we’re taking care of what’s important, which is our family and our friends, and we can’t do that if we’re not here. And so I think that’s perspective for me has changed a lot in the last 22 years that, you know, it should be adult first. And I think for many of us in a giving profession, that’s hard to hear that I’m gonna put, you know, others second so that I can put myself first.

Sam Demma
One of my favorite speakers and authors is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, and I talk about him quite a bit. And he has a phrase in one of his lectures where he says, the most important thing you could provide to a relationship, whether it be professional relationship or personal relationship, is your own personal development. Because if you became more valuable yourself, think about how much more you could contribute to that other person, whether it’s a professional or personal relationship.

Sam Demma
And he said, you know, the people would say, I’ll take care of you if you take care of me. And he said, no, I’ll take care of me so that I can take care of you and you’ll take care of you so that you can take care of me. And that’s the principle or the philosophy that came to mind while you were just talking about the importance of putting ourselves first in terms of our health and wellbeing so that we can pour into others.

Sam Demma
How do you put yourself first? What are some of those practices that help Ryan stay grounded and able to show up every single day at his best?

Ryan Wamser
Well, I’m gonna preface this by saying that, none of us are perfect people, so it’s hard to stand up here and be an example of that because I’m not a great example. To be completely honest with you, in September of 2020, I was a burnt out educator

Ryan Wamser
and I walked away from the superintendency. I quit my job. I was 385 pounds, I was having anxiety attacks, panic attacks, and all that I was not taking care of myself. And so I had a colleague of mine who was also superintendent, who we were talking about, you know, our impacts on on kids and, and my dad’s name got brought up. And I said, it’s pretty cool, the school that he taught at.

Ryan Wamser
They named the gymnasium after him after he passed away, his name’s on the building. I said, that’s kind of a cool impact. And my friend, also superintendent, said, Ryan, do you want a building named after you? Or do you want a gym named after you?

Ryan Wamser
Or do you want to see your kids graduate college? And it was one of those like, you know, truth bombs that I had to take. And I had to step back and, you know, have a conversation with my wife to say, you know what, in the current context that I’m living,

Ryan Wamser
I cannot take care of myself and still do the job that I’m doing. And now most people don’t have that opportunity to say, you know what, I’m gonna leave. You know, we talk about privilege. That’s a pretty big privilege to have a wife that says, you know what, we need you, so you do what you gotta do.

Ryan Wamser
So yeah, so I do feel like I’m a failed superintendent because I walked away at that time. I took nine months off. I focused on my health, I focused on, you know, being a good father and a good husband. Like I said, though, most, unfortunately, most people can’t just quit their job and walk away to be able to do that. So that’s part of what my mission is now, you know, it’s the whole adage of, you know, the reason why the universe or God asks us to go through hard things is so when we get through the other side, we’re there to help other people get through it as well. And so that’s kind of my mission in life now is to make sure nobody gets to the point where I was where they have to walk away because our profession is the most important profession in the world as educators. And we’re losing good people, because we don’t have those people that are there to help them and pull them through.

Ryan Wamser
So for me, it’s now in my life, five years later, my health is the most important thing to me so that I’m there for my kids, being a good husband, being a good father, making sure that I have those connections with what I call B12 people in my life.

Ryan Wamser
So these are people that, like taking a B12 supplement every morning that elevate my, you know, my mood. And so I surround myself with B12 people, people that when I, I know I can talk to them at any moment, and they’re going to elevate me, they’re gonna make me better. So I have those, those, you know, that strong, small group of people that I can contact. And it’s not just people that, and that’s the thing I think we misuse that about making sure you have a strong support system because sometimes that strong support system are the people that we know we can call and complain to and vice versa, they can call and complain to us. But I also think these are also the same people that you have to be able to have a good, strong group of people who you can call and complain to us. But I also think these are also the same people that you have to be able to have a good strong group of people who you can call and celebrate to. Like you say, if I picked up the phone, I’m sure there’s five or six people that would call and let me complain about my life. Let me air all my dirty laundry out. But who are the people right now that if you had to pick up the phone and tell them some great news, who was going to be there to be a huge cheerleader, who’s going to not make it about them, who’s going to be like, tell you that’s the greatest news they’ve ever heard and just pump you up. We got to have that. And we got to have those relationships because I’ll tell you that the higher up you get in education, going from teacher to principal, from principal to district office superintendent, the less you have of those people because teachers have built in colleagues at the same level with them. They have those friends, those people in the teacher’s lounge, they become principal.

Ryan Wamser
You can’t have those same relationships with the teachers now that you’re in charge of. And then it gets even less when you become superintendent. And so having that support system, having those people around you is huge to your mental and emotional health. In addition, again, pouring into yourself, making sure that you’re taken care of, diet, exercise, and then I get on my soapbox and preach this all the time. The most underrated yet most important aspect diet, exercise, and then I get on my soapbox and preach this all the time. The most underrated yet most important aspect to our physical, mental, and emotional health is making sure we’re taking care of ourselves when it comes to sleep habits. And so that’s another one that I preach to my administrator colleagues, that making sure that they’re taking care of themselves when it comes to sleep, because nothing else can matter if we’re not getting good sleep. And those are all things, looking back five years ago, I wasn’t sleeping well, wasn’t healthy, didn’t have those people that I was actively searching for to reach out to, to be part of my inner circle. And so not only do I do that now, but then I make sure that I’m part of those people’s inner circle as well to hold people accountable and expect them to hold me accountable as well.

Sam Demma
I’m going to start asking people before they enter my circle. Show me your vitamins. Show me your vitamins stack.

Ryan Wamser
It is true. Here’s a little trick that I came up with over Christmas this year. I had a friend of mine who I taught with, and he said, and he retired and he went back and now he’s teaching at a Catholic school because he’s retired from the public school system. And he said the diocese, the Catholic school, gave every teacher a $500 bonus at Christmas time. I was like, man, that’s awesome. That doesn’t happen in the public school system.

Ryan Wamser
It’s not built in to give bonuses. And so I was just pumping them up, telling them how great that was. And he goes, you know what? I called some of my friends that I used to teach with and I was excited about this $500 bonus.

Ryan Wamser
And I just wanted to share with somebody. And he goes, none of them were happy for me. None of them were happy for me. And so it just made me realize like, you know what, so think about that. Now, we’re probably not going to call people that we win the Powerball or the mega jackpot. All your friends. On a small scale, you went 500 bucks at a local raffle or grocery store or something, you know, who would you call and who would be

Ryan Wamser
fired up and excited for you? I mean, that’s something that’s just a little simple thing that I thought of over Christmas, like, who’s going to be there to tell you how great you are and how awesome that is? Or who’s going to make it about themselves? Or flip it around? Man, I wish I had 500 bucks. Well, can you give me five? Give me some of that? No. And that’s just a little something, like who are those people that, like I said, who are those B12 people that are gonna be there to cheer you on?

Sam Demma
I love that frame. It’s such a powerful way to look at connection and relationships and the people we wanna spend more time surrounding ourselves with. I, about a year ago now, was sitting at a restaurant eating dinner before a speaking engagement the next day for 800 high school students for a STEM conference. And I like talking to strangers, especially when I’m traveling alone. So I sat up by the bar and was watching the hockey game. This gentleman was sitting beside me just under his breath saying stuff about the game.

Sam Demma
And I made some funny comments that related to what he was saying. And we start talking and we end up sitting at that bar for four hours. His name’s Ron and he’s now a close friend.

Sam Demma
We talk maybe once every two months over the phone. That was our only interaction in person. And every once in a while, he’ll just call me and share some ideas that he thinks are helpful for the work that I’m doing. Out of the blue, Sam, here’s some ideas for you. And he calls me this one day and he goes, do you got a paper? Grab a piece of paper right now. I’m like, okay, Ron, I’m grabbing some paper. I run over to my desk and I put this paper down and he goes, Sam, think about this as something you could share on stage.

Sam Demma
Every day, our phone rings dozens of times. And throughout the course of our lives, our phone rings thousands or millions of times. And in a split moment, we look at the phone, we look at the name of the person who’s who’s calling us, and we make a decision, do we pick up the phone? Or do we let it ring through to voicemail or hang up? How do you live your life in a way that when your name shows up on someone else’s phone, they always pick it up. And I was like, whoa, this is such a cool idea.

Sam Demma
And while you were talking about those people you can call, I also thought about, you know, how you said, you know, you also wanna be that person for others and would they pick up the phone call and would they be excited to call you? I think is just as powerful as a frame.

Sam Demma
And shout out to Ronald McDougal. Thanks for the thanks for that. And anyway, I’m getting sidetracked a little bit just passionate about that whole idea of making sure that we’re surrounding ourselves with good human beings, and being there to support and celebrate and to answer the call when other people are wanting to support or wanting to be celebrated.

Sam Demma
There are lots of different involvements and developments going on in education. What do you think are some of the big opportunities that exist currently in education?

Ryan Wamser
Well, I think the opportunity is how do we get back this, how do we reframe educations that we’re getting people into the field? I think that’s our biggest, our biggest problem, especially in Illinois is, you know, we lack the numbers of teachers that we need, you know, to fulfill the jobs that we currently have, let alone what’s going to happen in the future. You know, when I first started off as an assistant principal and we’d get a job opening, back when everybody sent paper resumes and packets in, we would have like nine paper box, you know, like copy paper boxes. We’d have like nine paper boxes full of job applicants, you know, just, and now, you know, you’re lucky if you get six people to apply for a job, you know, and so that’s the opportunity I think is, got to go back to, you know, I grew up, like I said, my dad was an educator, all of his friends were educators, I never heard them. Talk, I never I’ve never heard them say anything negative about education negative about their jobs, they love their jobs, they, they always were laughing always were having a great time. You know, they spent all of their free time at school, which means I spent all my free time at school.

Ryan Wamser
And so we have the opportunity now to reframe the fact that yes, it’s not the same as it was in the early 80s education and teaching is, but we have the opportunity. It’s still the greatest profession in the world in my opinion.

Ryan Wamser
And how do we reframe that so that we get away from, well, I don’t want my kids being teachers. I don’t want them being teachers. Oh, you know, and a lot of those people that are saying that are our teachers, you know, that are saying, I don’t want my kids. And so we have the opportunity to reframe that and truly, um, you know, we have to do our best to, to raise up kids that, like me, who the reason why they are who they are is because of their teachers. And I think if we can reframe that, we have the opportunity to truly take back education and get good people back in the field. Because right now it’s a real struggle to recruit and retain people. And I think part of that is, you know, having great leaders, we have to make sure we’re supporting them. We have to make sure we trust them. We have to make sure we give them what they need. And then we have to get out of their way.

Ryan Wamser
And then hold people accountable when we need to. I think that’s part of any good relationship is to hold people accountable because we all want to be held accountable when we need to be. But I think that’s the big opportunity that we have. And I think it’s going to be a make it or break it here in the next couple of years of whether or not we’re going to be able to fulfill these positions.

Sam Demma
It’s the same in Canada. It’s the same among many of the people that I talk to in education right now. It’s one of the reasons I started this podcast was to share the story of educators that are loving the work they’re doing and sharing the journey about how they got there. So I hope that these sorts of conversations play some role in getting some more young people excited about the work. And I appreciate the  intention you have on shifting the conversation. I think it starts with that awareness and that intention. So thank you for the work that you’re doing. Thank you for spending some time here on the podcast today to share about your experiences and philosophies around education and the importance of adult first, or wellness and self development first before before others and other things to talk a little bit about the needs of educators or what it means to succeed in terms of our own well-being and placing that first. I really enjoyed just chopping it up and learning more about you and your journey. And I look forward to meeting again this summer.

Sam Demma
Until then, keep up the amazing work you’re doing. And we’ll talk again soon, right?

Ryan Wamser
Likewise, Sam, I appreciate you. Appreciate everything that you’re doing.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Ryan Wamser

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 8, 2025 by Director of Education Educator Superintendent 0

Josh Martin — Principal of Mt. Olive High School

Josh Martin — Principal of Mt. Olive High School
About Josh Martin

Josh Martin is in his first year as principal of Mt. Olive High School in Mt. Olive, Illinois. A dedicated educator, he has been part of the rural Mt. Olive School District since 2009, serving in various roles throughout his 20-year career. Mr. Martin has taught Health, Driver’s Education, and Physical Education, in addition to serving as Student Services Coordinator and Dean of Students.

Passionate about physical activity, he has coached football, baseball, and track, and he continues to lead the middle school track team. He enjoys engaging in type two fun such as hiking the Grand Canyon in one day, completing a half Ironman event, and running 5k/s  to Marathons. Outside of school, Josh enjoys spending time with family and friends. He views every experience as an opportunity for growth, embracing lifelong learning with gratitude for the journey and the meaningful experiences it brings.

Connect with Josh Martin: Email

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Resources Mentioned

Mt. Olive High School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by my new friend and guest, Josh Martin. With two decades of dedicated service and education, including roles as a teacher, coach, and administrator, Josh Martin now leads Mount Olive High School as its principal in rural Illinois.

Sam Demma
His diverse experience spans health, driver’s education, and physical education instruction, while his passion for athletics has seen him coach multiple sports and personally tackle challenges from marathon running to completing a half Ironman. A true believer in lifelong learning, Josh approaches each day as an opportunity for growth, bringing the same determination he uses to conquer the Grand Canyon in a single day to his mission of fostering excellence in education.

Sam Demma
Josh, it is a pleasure to have you on the show here today. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Josh Martin
Well, Sam, I appreciate you having me on. Yeah, I’m excited about this.

Sam Demma
Please introduce yourself and talk a little bit about what got you into education.

Josh Martin
Yeah, so like you said, I am a almost two decades. Yeah, this is my 20th year in education. And I would say what got me into education was just life. I went into college thinking that I was gonna go into the medical field, started that route and ended up meeting my wife. And she was going into education. And I ended up through athletics, blowing my knee out and needing to have some surgeries and got to see the medical field and got to meet a bunch of people in the medical field and actually practicing in the area that I had wanted to go into and got to get some feedback and it wasn’t necessarily wonderful, great feedback. So it gave me pause as to like, should I continue to explore this route? And eventually decided, you know what, I wonder if I should go and talk to the guidance counselor at this point. I was in my third year at Southern Illinois University Edwardsville and I went in and I had a ton of science and I Was just like I don’t want to start all the way over. What can I do? so they kind of gave me some options and becoming a science teacher was one of those options. And they’re like, so if you want to do that, I was like, well, let’s take that route.

Josh Martin
Let’s see what it’s like. So I took a couple education classes and I actually really, really enjoyed them. And from there decided I didn’t want to be a science teacher. So I was like, well, what other areas and what other passions do I have that I would actually be like excited to teach?

Josh Martin
So that’s where the health came in and the physical education. And they basically were like, hey, if you’re going to get health and PE, you might as well go ahead and get your driver’s ed. So I kind of wrapped them all three and finished up my bachelor’s that way. And I still finished on time, I just took a couple extra summer classes and the rest is history. So it’s been pretty amazing because my wife and I have very similar schedules, which allows us to do a lot of the things we like. We love traveling, so summers are spent traveling. We do a lot of outdoor activities together with our family and our friends. So I think that the entire situation turned out just the way that it was supposed to.

Sam Demma
With such varied experience in different roles, from being a teacher to a coach to an administrator, how have those different experiences shaped or informed the way you think about leadership as a first year principal?

Josh Martin
Yeah, I think the beauty of having multiple or, uh, different points of leadership is it gives you different, uh, like lenses to look through. So you can reframe things. Uh, I think that’s probably the best benefit that I have. And I think the other things that have that’s helped me is you know, I I lead out in other areas of life and I’m a father. So I think every time that you you step into new things you you learn so much more about life and just so much more about yourself and I think learning how to tackle that with some mercy and some grace for yourself. But the biggest part is how do you do that while reframing for others and giving them the empathy and the compassion that we should each day.

Sam Demma
When you think about your experience as a teacher, what are a few of the perspectives you keep in mind or you’ve taken away from those experiences?

Josh Martin
Yeah, I think the biggest thing that being a teacher was making sure that you come in each day kind of fresh, kind of new. I think as a teacher, you got to come in and you got to have like your directives, you got to have your goals and your objectives. But I think when you are thinking about your students, you know, here in Manalo we have a wide range of clientele basically, and you don’t know if that student came in and, you know, they just got in a fight with their parent, or if they got breakfast, or any number of different things, so it’s always, you know, kind of like, is the problem the problem or is something else leading to what we’re now dealing with? And from my perspective, a majority of the time, the problem is not the problem. It’s the thing that happened before the problem.

Josh Martin
And I think if we can get to that and think about that, oftentimes we can solve nearly everything. And it becomes more restorative and more of a learning and growth experience than just a, hey, I need you to act a certain way and be a certain way. And I know you’re not that right now. And I know that you’re not in a space to do it. But I still need you to do it anyway, because they’re gonna look at you like, I can’t do that. I can’t do that as an adult. But I think, you know, luckily I’ve had people in my life that have spoken into my life and said, hey, you need to be able to say at this particular point, I need to pause. I need to step back. I need to reflect. And I think those are the things, if we can get our students to do that, and particularly now that I’m a principal, if I can get my staff to then get their students to do that, it becomes a culture where advocating for yourself and not just like a compliance culture.

Josh Martin
I don’t want a compliance culture, I want a growth culture.

Sam Demma
You’ve had experience as a teacher, also as a coach. I recently interviewed another educator who was an administrator in Indiana. And his name is Mr. Well, Aaron, but his, his students in class would call him Mr. Schmidt.

Sam Demma
And then when he was on the football field, they’d call him coach. And then sometimes they’d walk into his classroom and call him coach and they’d call him Mr. Schmidt on the field. And he was trying to tell people no on, on the field, I’m coaching in classroom. I’m Mr.

Sam Demma
Schmidt. And he said, you know, you get to see a different side of students when you coach and you hold a level of accountability that’s sometimes slightly different than in the classroom. What are some of the perspectives you took away from your time coaching or still continue to live through your time as a coach that you pull into administration or leading others?

Josh Martin
Yeah, I think it’s knowing the leverage points of the people that you’re working with. Because I think of, you know, the different athletes that I’ve coached, some of them, they needed the motivational quotes, they needed the pick me ups. And some of them, you just need to look at them and said, I don’t think you can do this. Because that was the leverage point for them. They’re like, Oh, you’re, oh, you’re calling me out. You don’t think I can do this. And 100% I thought they could do it. And I knew they could do it. But I knew that the leverage point for them was to like set the bar. And they would always rise and meet that bar. And then they would be like, see, I told you. And I’d be like, yeah, you told me, you told me a lot. Perfect example of that is when I became the head football coach here in Mount Olive, actually my second year here in Mount Olive. And I came from a power I spread offense. And when I came to Mount Olive, they have run a traditional wing T formation for generations. And I didn’t really know that much about wing T. I also knew that generationally they had these, farm strong athletes and they, like when I came here, our starting line was like six foot three, averaging 230. They were, you know, throwing bales of hay. They were doing all the things in the summer. But then when I came in, we saw a very different, we saw these smaller statured athletes, but they had speed. So we really wanted to move to a spread offense, but we didn’t want to tell the kids that right off the bat. We wanted them to fight for it. So they came to us and like, we really want to run this. We’re like, oh, we don’t know.

Josh Martin
You’re really going to have to prove that you can do it. And the only way that you can prove that you can do it is in practice going above and beyond. So even though it was exactly what the coaching staff wanted to run, at practice we had to say, I don’t know. We don’t know if this is going to be it. Because it was a leverage point.

Josh Martin
And it gave them ownership. And I think that’s a big key part is, particularly in education is, how do we give kids, how do we give these students leadership opportunities and give them ownership of the school? Because yes, they’re the client, but they are also the person who’s like learning and doing. So ownership

Sam Demma
is huge. The idea of ownership is important when leading a team on a football field or a team of staff in a school building. I think about the team of folks that I work with to do the work we’re doing. And there’s been times where I delegate a task or a responsibility. And sometimes I’ve caught myself jumping in to finish the task or change the task.

Sam Demma
And I then put myself in the shoes of the person I delegated it to. And I think, wow, they probably think I don’t trust them because I’m now doing their work, as opposed to just letting them finish and then having a conversation. That’s been a tough skill for me to learn to allow people to do the work and then have an open conversation about it. When you think about dealing with other people and delegating tasks and just managing others, human beings are so complex. Are there any ideas or principles that you keep, you know, front and center to ensure you do a good job?

Josh Martin
Yeah, I think number one, you gotta look at them as a whole person and not just how they fit into your system. Like, you know, I think about the teachers that work here at Mount Olive High School and I like to know like, okay, you know,

Josh Martin
what are they doing on the weekends? What songs do they like? What drives them? What’s their passion? Like if when you talk about delegating, I don’t want to delegate them into something that they hate. I want to delegate them into something that like provides them energy, like it’s the right space on the bus. And so the way that you, for me, the way that you do that is you got to build a relationship. Just like when you’re the teacher, you build a relationship with your students as a principal. Now you’re building a relationship with your staff.

Josh Martin
And through those relationships, you are able to then not necessarily even have to delegate, but it’s you get to provide the opportunity for those people to lead out in places that they want to lead out. Now, there are times that you have to go in and be like, hey, I really need you to take your attendance. Everyone’s got to do it. There’s some general things,

Josh Martin
hey, we got to get the grades in the grade book. And those are conversations that you can have. But if you’ve built a relationship, those conversations go much more smooth. And most of the time, don’t even become things that either side think are, oh, they’re trying to catch me, or this is a gotcha moment. They’re just like, oh no, I get it. Everybody’s got a boss, and we all have things that we, there are some have tos in various jobs. And I think when you are working in a situation that kind of flows and has some, like, I like toward the use synergy, where we’re all working towards that common goal, but we all get to use our own, like, passion, and we get to bring our own personality to it. That’s when you see the widest net cast and the most people like catch on to it, that’s when you see the widest net cast and the most people like catch on to it.

Sam Demma
You are someone who lives out that philosophy. I mean I can feel it just through this conversation. I love the idea of replacing the idea of delegating with providing opportunities. That is a way more impactful way to look at it. I know that throughout your career, you’ve maintained consistency with coaching the track team. You’ve also pushed yourself athletically outside of the school building, whether it’s hiking the Grand Canyon or doing the Ironman stuff, those physical challenges, what keeps you pursuing them? And what is it about them that excites you?

Josh Martin
I think it’s the unknown. I like, I often at times have been called by family and friends, a workaholic. And that can be a good thing and it can be a bad thing. It really depends on how you frame the rest of your life around those situations.

Josh Martin
So when I was doing the Ironman training, I literally went to my wife beforehand and said, this is what I want. Here’s what I think it will take. Are we as a team committed to providing the time for training because this is something that she’s gonna have,

Josh Martin
like she’s my nutritionist, man. She makes sure that I’m fueled well. That also meant that she was, there’s more laundry, there’s more moving of the kids around. And so you really have to think about how is this impacting others and not just my goal,

Josh Martin
because it is my goal, but it also has an impact on her, it has an impact on our family. So I think the big thing is where, what are we doing with like what’s in front of us? And not always just is it me, me, me. It’s a we situation. And some of the beauty of it is, you know, we get to train together.

Josh Martin
So she likes to run. So we get to do some long runs together. How can we, once again, synergy, how can we take the things that we’re all working towards and make them work together? So like when I, when we apply that into the classroom, it’s how can you take a PE class and a science class and find some kind of cross-curricular activity where

Josh Martin
we’re studying kinetic energy. All right, well you can do some stuff in PE, you can collect the data, and then you can decipher it in science, and in science you can go over it. So I think there’s a lot of like crossover, so you know I think that the latest term, I’ve always called it like a cross-section, it’s they call it intersectionality, It’s an intersection. And so how can we deliberately find those intersections and how can we use them so

Josh Martin
that our students or our family members or the people that we care about are like seen? How can we celebrate them? And how can we learn from them? Because I think if we can do those things, we’re gonna like you’re really going to ignite a lot of people and a lot of passion. What third of the triathlon was the most challenging for you to train for? So the most challenging to train for is swimming. And that’s literally because it’s super boring to go and swim miles upon miles in a pool.

Josh Martin
And until you’ve done it, it can be somewhat anxiety. Like I was stressing about swimming in an open water. Particularly because you can’t see the bottom. You know, there’s choppy waves depending on the wind. Also, location. There’s not always places to swim.

Josh Martin
Particularly in Illinois, there’s only so many months out of the year that you can get in the water. So there’s a lot of, you just have to adapt and you have to get over your fears. And you know, there’s, I will be 100% honest. I went to the race. I had done open water swims with a group.

Josh Martin
It was awesome. And I got there and the day before, and I got in the water and I was like, just panic ridden. Because the group was like just panic ridden because The group was like, all right today. We’re gonna swim without our they have like this I wouldn’t call it a floaty but it doesn’t like it’s not on you. It just floats behind you

Josh Martin
It’s an it’s a it’s a safety mechanism and in case well, we weren’t going to swim with it on our practice run And I it freaked me out I had never done it and And it freaked me out. I had never done it. And so I went in the water twice came back out was hyperventilating. And I was like, guys, I have to swim with my floaty. And they’re like,

Josh Martin
that’s fine. And I went out and swam with it. Having that made like I was perfectly fine. And I have no idea what the difference was the next day, other than guess who showed up? My kids. My kids showed up and I was like,

Josh Martin
I want them to see that I can do hard things. Like, and I was able to articulate, I’m worried about this. This has me a little bit nervous. And just to be honest, we’re people of faith. So I was like, let’s pray about it. And so once we walked through that, I was like,

Josh Martin
all right, now I’ve got to step up because I’m not just doing it for me. I have to think about all those hours that they gave up of hanging out, how many hours that my wife made cooking me these meals and making sure that I was fueled well,

Josh Martin
how many loads of laundry did she do that were extra? And just all of the things and you start to realize, all right, this is bigger than me. And it put me in the right head space and I was able to do it. So sometimes it’s just being able to step back and get try to get

Sam Demma
in that right head space. One of the things we read about you is that you know, you view every experience as an opportunity for growth. It sounds like this was one of them. Where did that philosophy or belief originate for you? Because I believe it’s an important one, but sometimes in life it’s so hard to take that perspective, to choose that belief.

Josh Martin
Yeah, I think I got it from my parents, honestly, because I look back and I feel like they worked so hard. Oftentimes, my dad was working two jobs, but he never missed a sporting event. If he wasn’t working, it wasn’t like, oh, I worked a double, so I’m not gonna be there because I’m gonna be asleep.

Josh Martin
He’s like, no, I’m gonna show up. I’m gonna make sure that they know. So it just really helped frame the idea that service and showing up for other people is super important and you know this life you only have a limited time and nobody knows exactly how limited that’s going to be for each person So, you know, get off the couch, be active, show up for people, serve people, let people know that you love them. Like that’s one thing that, you know, I have some very close friends and I make sure that when we leave, I tell them I love them. Give them a hug. It’s just something that I do.

Josh Martin
It’s but I learned that from my parents. And other people are like, I can’t believe you just told that person that you love him. And it’s like, well, I don’t know why I wouldn’t. So it’s just something that I grew up with. It was a part of the culture that I grew up with

Josh Martin
and I fully embrace it and it’s helped me as an adult.

Sam Demma
I just started thinking about Lucas, Cross, Savio, Dylan, some of my closest buddies, who we all, I mean, the first time I said, I love you and hung up the phone, they were like, talk soon, man. And now it’s almost common practice. And I have so much admiration and love for those people in my life and family and cousins and everyone that it you’re right It wouldn’t make sense not to express, you know How I feel especially if that was the last time I ever got a chance to speak to them Like you said, we we don’t really know how much time we have left I’m curious in your life It sounds like your parents have had a massive impact on your philosophy and the way you carry yourself. Were there any other teachers or educators or coaches who significantly influenced you growing up?

Josh Martin
Oh my gosh, the list is, it’s a long list. I mean, I think about, you know, once I decided to go into education, I, there were some people that I tried to model myself after because they didn’t even know it, but the impact that they had and the ability for me to reflect back and be like, this person made me feel this way, I want to replicate that.

Josh Martin
My elementary school gym teacher, Ms. Shehorn, she was awesome. Every day was exciting and new to come into the PE room. And I mean, I was an adult before I ever thought, you know what I want to do? I want to do that. But her impact traveled, you know, 20 years. And I never even got to tell her because I didn’t know her as an adult, but she had an impact. And I think about that like the ripple effect like you don’t know

Josh Martin
What what that I love you could mean to somebody and how the ripple effect is But you also don’t know what the good morning and a smile at the front door each tomorrow Just letting them know that all right, but guess what? I’m willing to sit with you and listen and be okay with you.

Sam Demma
I think about some of the educators and people in my life who went above and beyond to make me feel good about myself. And I have a hard time thanking them sometimes. I feel like it’s never enough. So I appreciate you sharing, just taking the time today to share some of your experiences, your beliefs around education, share a little bit about the importance of the perspectives you took away from coaching and teaching and how it impacts the way you think about administration and leadership, the difference between delegation and providing opportunities. This was a rich conversation with lots of ideas. And I just want to say thank you so much for sharing some of your time.

Josh Martin
Well Sam I really appreciate you having me on and I think it goes back to we had you here at the school earlier this year and I think your message of service really resonated. And we ended up having an appreciation service day where students went into small groups and they did various service projects throughout the community. And we wrote Christmas cards for the nursing home.

Josh Martin
We had a group that literally walked down main street and picked all the trash up. We had groups that were willing to do cleaning that like a deep cleaning of various areas of the school. We had kids that went down into the elementary and read books to the elementary students. So it was really exciting to see how they took a message and then

Josh Martin
they were able to take it in, put it into their own frame, put their own hands on the wheel, and then like start steering that a little bit. It was really exciting. Oh man, I had no idea.

Sam Demma
So I appreciate you sharing that. That’s, um, that’s awesome. And, and keep up all the amazing work you’re doing. Uh, keep shoveling the snow and, uh, we’ll catch you again sometime in the, in the spring.

Josh Martin
All right, Sam. Appreciate you.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Josh Martin

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 6, 2025 by Educator Principals 0

Jacqueline Butler — Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School

Jacqueline Butler — Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School
About Jacqueline Butler

Meet Jacqueline Butler—an educator, leader, and lifelong learner who’s passionate about redefining what school can be. As the Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School in Richmond Hill, Canada, Jacqueline has spent the past 22 years fostering a learning environment that connects students with their passions, their well-being, and the world around them.

Her journey has taken her from the science lab to the gymnasium, always with a focus on creating meaningful, human-centred learning experiences. Right now, she’s working on integrating student life with academics, helping students develop the skills and mindsets they need to be changemakers in an ever-evolving world. She believes that in a world where humans are increasingly falling out of relationship with each other and the natural world, school needs to be a place that is based in community, where students discover, connect, grow, and take risks—without fear of judgment.

When she’s not thinking about the future of education, you can find Jacqueline hiking, skiing, or taking in a peaceful waterfront view with her husband, son and daughter. A former Queen’s University basketball player, she still finds joy in coaching, with a focus on teamwork, and inspiring young athletes to commit to something bigger than themselves.

Connect with Jacqueline Butler: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Holy Trinity School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Jacqueline Butler. As deputy head of student life and well being at Holy Trinity School in Richmond Hill, Jacqueline has dedicated 22 years to reimagining education through a human centered lens. Her journey from science teacher to educational leader reflects her commitment to creating learning environments where students can discover their passions, develop as change makers, and build meaningful connections with their community and the natural world.

Sam Demma
A former Queens University basketball player turned coach, and she’s still got moves y’all, Jacqueline brings her passion for teamwork and personal growth to every aspect of her work while balancing her professional dedication with family, time spent hiking, skiing, and enjoying waterfront views with her husband and children. Jacqueline, it is a privilege and pleasure to have you on the show here today. Thank you so much for being here.

Jacqueline Butler
Thank you for having me. I was listening to some past episodes and you keep very good company, so I’m very honored to have been asked and to be here, spend time with you, Sam.

Sam Demma
I can’t wait to dive in. Can you please start by introducing yourself and just sharing a little bit about why you got into education?

Jacqueline Butler
So, so yeah, so I have been, um, a for, that’s been my whole career. And I graduated from university and took an adventure overseas to London and England to do some teaching over there, and then made my way back over to HTS and I’ve been here ever since.

Jacqueline Butler
So a really, really long time, had an early adventure, but I know a lot of people, you know, move around in their career, but I have found a place that I feel like I really belong and that I love so much. And so that’s me and kind of my little story, but I got into teaching really because I wasn’t ready to grow up yet. That’s how it started actually. And that I, all the things that I loved doing, in my youth, I felt like I could continue to do those things as an educator, and a sort of positive role model for for other young people. So, you know, I come to work every day, and I still get to sing out loud in chapel. I still get to play in the gym, whether I’m teaching or coaching. I still get to go on trips. I still get to do all of the things that I used to love to do as a kid, except just in a different role as the adult in the room now. So that’s how I got started in education.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about what brought you overseas at the start of your career.

Jacqueline Butler
So I was a student obviously in Teachers College and there were schools coming over to Queens to do some interviews. They’re doing their recruiting and I knew I was going to be in the workforce coming up really soon. And so I thought I better get some practice. So I signed up for these interviews because I’d never had a professional interview yet. And I thought this would be a great idea. So I went and sat down

Jacqueline Butler
and had some really amazing conversations with some other educators from around the world. And I never once considered that, you know a job offer would be on the table, but sure enough, it was. And then all of a sudden it was just, why not? So I really never had a plan to do it, but when the opportunity was presented to me, I didn’t have a reason not to do it. So off I went.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Some of my favorite memories are from my own childhood experience of traveling to Italy for six months. And I think that earlier in any career, it’s such a valuable experience to gather different perspectives from different communities around the globe. It helps shift our perspectives and have more of a holistic view on things. You’ve been in education now, you know, 22 years.

Sam Demma
How has your vision of what school can be? How has that evolved? Oh, yeah, how’s that evolved over the years?

Jacqueline Butler
Well, it’s interesting, I’ve been in the game a little bit longer than that, actually, not that I want to date myself, but it’s just I’ve been at HTS for 22 years. But I think that when I was younger, I felt very much like I needed to stick to the script, right? Like I was very much focused on the curriculum standards and ticking the boxes and getting done what I needed to get done. And as I’ve grown and matured and become more in tune with what my students need or the students need. I’ve been able to focus on them more as people and individuals and young growing minds and souls and spirits to be able to actually meet them where they are as opposed to like having a set goal in mind. So for me, that has been the major shift in terms of, yes, just maybe taking the curriculum standards a little more seriously when you were younger and growing into a more holistic educator that’s really, really concerned with the whole child, which can take you down many different paths, oftentimes a different path, many different times in the same day. And being the whole child being the center of what education is and what it can be, as opposed to a set path.

Sam Demma
How do you build a connection with a student to the point where you really truly understand their needs? Sometimes it feels like certain educators connect really well with their students and others want to, but struggle to do so. What do you think some of the principles are to build those connections?

Jacqueline Butler
I think that there’s probably many different answers to that question because there’s, you know, many different personalities, many different connection points for different students and the other adults in the room. But for myself personally, I always connect back to the why. Like, you know, why am I in this? Why am I doing this? And the answer is always the same. The answer is always I’m doing this for them. So if that’s in fact the case, then I can’t really get too far down the road unless I know them. So it’s about the relationship building. It’s about the questions that you’re asking.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s about caring enough to know what matters, what matters to each individual person, understanding their goals, understanding their challenges. And the really, really, really important piece, I think, is finding a way to get each student to know themself first. And taking that coaching stance in terms of helping each individual learn who they are,

Jacqueline Butler
what makes them tick, not what they wanna be when they grow up, but what they want to spend their life doing.

Sam Demma
It makes me think of some educators I’ve had that really got to know me on a personal level and understand what I was passionate about outside of their classrooms, to the point where they would teach a lesson and at the end of the lesson say,

Sam Demma
Sam, for you, this means X, And Jacqueline, for you and your passions, this lesson means X. And it just felt so personalized, despite the fact that there was another 30 students in the class. And I’ll never really forget those specific moments.

Sam Demma
Sometimes young people put a lot of pressure on themselves with so many different expectations and goals and dreams and things going on in the world. How do you think we balance that healthy ambition in a student with the challenge of them putting so much pressure on themselves these days?

Jacqueline Butler
There is a lot of pressure. It might be a cop-out, but my answer is a little bit the same. It’s just in the sense that until you really know and understand yourself, you could be tempted to be trying to do a whole bunch of different things for different people or different things for different outcomes that don’t necessarily connect with your own personal passions and your own personal you know desires and on top of that if you don’t really know yourself yet it’s really hard to know where you want to go. So in that in that sense I think it’s it’s just super important that

Jacqueline Butler
students are staying true to themselves, that they’re doing the hard work, the self-reflection, the self-awareness, they’re focused on what it means to be a good human, a good citizen of the world, and then you layer in, you know, your interests and your passions and maybe a way to make money somehow in there along the way. But staying true to yourself, I think is the key to that because then you can sort of cut the noise out, right?

Jacqueline Butler
And not have to feel like you have to be everything to everybody at the same time.

Sam Demma
One of the things you’re helping students be at HTS is change makers. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it means to be a change maker and how we foster those characteristics and skills in, in students?

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah, I think, um, in one context, a changemaker connects directly with the word impact. And if you’re able to make an impact, and that impact can be at the local level, you know, maybe in your own class, or your own school, or you can extend that impact out to the community, you can go further, and, you know, into a different country or whatever the case may be. But I think to be a changemaker means that you’ve identified an issue,

Jacqueline Butler
that you’ve learned and understood the issue, that you’ve created empathy for the people that are being affected by the issue. And then you have dedicated your time, effort and energy to find out what the need actually is not what you think the need is, but but what the need actually is. And then you put a plan in place to make a change or make a difference.

Jacqueline Butler
So I think finding opportunities and experiences that give students the skills to be able to take those steps is what it means to be a changemaker because it can be in any field, in any place. There’s no limit to what it means to be a changemaker.

Sam Demma
One of the things I noticed at HTS, every student says hello, waves, smile on their face, looking for opportunities to help each other, eat lunch with each other. Tell me more about how the school staff is intentional about building that culture of inclusion and belonging and kindness and respect and how another school may borrow some of those ideas to try and build

Jacqueline Butler
that culture within their community. So I feel like we have a really strong community at HTS and I at the same time, I’m comfortable saying that we’re on a journey and we have some growth to do in that area as well. I think we do place a lot of value on the concept of belonging. I think we we put the right vocabulary in place and we create opportunities to come together in community, which obviously fosters those relationships. And this may be a little off topic, but I think one of the biggest challenges

Jacqueline Butler
that everybody’s facing right now is that people are falling out of relationship with themselves, they’re falling out of relationship with other people and they’re falling out of relationship with the earth. And there’s a lot happening out there in the world that makes it easy for that to happen. And so I think our jobs in a school like HTS where we really do value that community and those connections and those relationships is that you have to be very intentional. Now, more I think than ever before in teaching those skills, like there’s skills connected to it. And I think, you know, for a long time, you kind of gloss over that these

Jacqueline Butler
things are happening and people are showing the signs and symptoms of belongingness and togetherness. But if we don’t focus on being intentional in terms of what we talk about, how we talk, bringing people such as yourself into our community to speak about what it means to show up in a relationship and be a positive member of a relationship, then I think we miss opportunities to really like instill those values and skills.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about the falling out of relationship with the world, the natural world. I would love to dive into that for a moment.

Jacqueline Butler
Oh man, I wish I had the answer, like, you know, this is an area for myself that, you know, causes me a little bit of internal discomfort or stress. So I think in my in my learnings and readings, as they call it the the meta crisis,

Jacqueline Butler
right, the breakdown of the interconnectedness of global systems, you know, with technology, science, information, the environment, economics, psychology, culture, politics, all these things. It’s very complicated, like it’s beyond my sort of scope of obviously fully understanding, but I can tell you that I can definitely feel it.

Jacqueline Butler
So I mean, some professional communities that I’m a part of, finding pockets of people who notice this falling out of relationship, who are open to talk about it, and who feel strongly about doing something about it, I think that’s kind of where I find a little bit of inner peace around it. But it is a major challenge that our young people have to confront, come face to face with, because, yeah, things are changing, things are different. And again, that’s why the role of us as educators is so critical.

Jacqueline Butler
Because what are we doing? What skills are we instilling? What things are we teaching and talking about that will prepare young people to be able to deal with, you know, these changes, the potential chaos, collapse, whatever you want to call it. So like, we have a really, really big, important role to play in all of this. And so, you know, I think specifically at HTS, we are really working hard to

Jacqueline Butler
potentially disrupt the way education looks and the way that we interact with our students, moving towards more of a mentorship model with our students so that they have that close relationship and we’re building in the skills in a set kind of plan, a set plan that meets the students where they are and gives them the skills that they need to be able to meet these challenges in the future.

Sam Demma
Like skill-based learning versus subject-based learning.

Jacqueline Butler
Yes, or learning the skills through a subject and being more interdisciplinary and having learning experiences with people that are not all the same age as you, you know, that are not all talking about the same subject at the same time, but really having opportunities

Jacqueline Butler
with internships and capstones and all of the different projects and programs that we’re exploring here at HDS, but to create a more like holistic, human-centered version of education that breaks down the silos and creates learning opportunities that are more authentic to us as a human being. Again, we

Jacqueline Butler
kind of school… It’s not natural in the sense of if you think of experiences where you’ve had your most authentic learning, you probably weren’t, everybody that you were with wasn’t the same age as you talking about the exact same topic as you in a room. It probably didn’t feel like that. So, how can we recreate learning opportunities that really feel more authentic to what it means to have positive learning out in the

Jacqueline Butler
world.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah.

Sam Demma
What other things would you re-imagine in a school, you know, if you could disrupt education as a whole? Are there other things that you think would be places you’d start? Yeah, I’m curious what other things you think should, could be disrupted in the next couple of years and kind of need to be in some ways.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah. Again, it’s a, it’s who can predict it, right? Like who can predict exactly what’s going to happen. But, um, you know, we know that technology is a game changer. We know that we can use it for good and we can use it for bad. But I think we have to separate ourselves from the concept of the four walls, right, of a building that if the pandemic taught us anything, it’s able to send students out into the world to do their internships to do their projects and, you know, be able to get their credits while doing other things at the same time. these constructs that we think must be true in order to, I’m using air quotes here, I know we’re an audio only, but to do school.

Jacqueline Butler
So yeah, that we need to kind of just look beyond what we’ve come to expect or accept as what school is.

Sam Demma
When you think of your own educational experience, can you identify a few mentors or caring adults that had a big impact on you? And if so, what did those specific individuals do for you that made all the difference?

Jacqueline Butler
So therein lies the lesson, right? So here I am talking about how, you know, the constructs of school maybe don’t serve us as human beings, but at the end of the day, I have had amazing experiences in school, just the way that it is now. And the interesting thing is because of the relationships. So that will never change, right?

Jacqueline Butler
You mentioned it as well. The power of the relationships with you that you have with other people is like the number one indicator of happiness.

Jacqueline Butler
Right?

Jacqueline Butler
The more positive relationships you have in your life, the happier you’re going to be. Even when there’s crap. You know what I mean? Like even when things are rough, if you have positive relationships and the same is true with school,

Jacqueline Butler
like if you have those positive relationships around you, you can still accomplish all these wonderful things. So, for me personally, I had coaches in high school, I had coaches in high school, I had coaches in university. The difference for me was that it was about me. Like they wanted to know what my goals were.

Jacqueline Butler
What do you want to accomplish? What matters to you? What’s challenging you these days? How can I be helpful? So to me, again, just having that personalized connection with somebody who has your best interest at heart

Jacqueline Butler
is a difference maker in terms of how you’re gonna be successful. So if you know that somebody is caring about you, if you know if somebody knows what your goals are and where you wanna be and is there to support you and guide you, you have that person that you can go to

Jacqueline Butler
that you can ask the questions. I think that’s what makes the big difference, yeah.

Sam Demma
You mentioned coaches and I know that athletics have played a large part of your entire life. How has your background in athletics and coaching influenced your approach to educational leadership and student development?

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah, it’s really about the people working towards a common goal.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah. It’s about the people working towards a common goal.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s about putting others ahead of self. It’s about, you know, you have to practice as hard as you want to play, right? So, you know, what do you, what do you, right? What are you doing when you’re not in the big game to enable you to deserve to win the big game is really important.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s a little off topic, but I saw something recently that I really loved and it’s so simple. The person’s name is Dr. Becky. Now, I’m sure she has a last name, but it wasn’t shared. She’s from Duke.

Jacqueline Butler
She’s from Duke. And her concept of the difference or the space between not knowing something and knowing something, right? Being pure frustration, right? The difference between when you don’t know something

Jacqueline Butler
and you do something is filled with frustration. It’s uncomfortable, it’s hard. And then you get to the point of where you know it and you have this huge sense of accomplishment. So it’s the same with sport, right? You’re not doing well and then you are doing well.

Jacqueline Butler
What happened in between? That’s the magic, right? And the skill that we need to put in place, whether it be athletics or education, is this concept that she calls frustration tolerance. And I thought, oh my goodness, like that is so simple, yet so amazing. So if we can, you know, help young people or old people, any, any to stay to the course through the frustration. The more that we can practice frustration tolerance, the more successful we will be

Jacqueline Butler
in terms of reaching our goals and getting to where we want to be when the going gets tough. So I think whether you’re talking about athletics, whether you’re talking about, you know, academics or education, how can you stay the course? How can you stick with something when you know it’s hard? Some people call it resilience, some people call it grit,

Jacqueline Butler
but the real skill of it is how do you live in that uncomfortable space between not knowing something and knowing something and have the skill to be tolerant through frustration?

Sam Demma
I think it’s such a cool way to look at growth. One of my friends always said, Sam, I hope you find something to struggle well on. It made me think of that. Life is about choosing things worth struggling for. And then it’s how much can we struggle? How frustrated can we, how much can we tolerate before we make a decision to try something else or keep moving forward? So I love that idea. And Dr. Becky from Duke, last name that we don’t know, we appreciate you.

Jacqueline Butler
We appreciate you. I loved it.

Sam Demma
This has been such a lovely conversation about what it means to build a relationship with a young person. Some of your insights that you’ve pulled from athletics and coaching and how, you know, how has you like looking through a lens in education, the importance of building community and some of the disruptions that may happen in education in the future.

Sam Demma
And that relationships are still at the center of all the work that we do in a school building and how important those are. I really appreciate your time and the work that you’re doing at HTS. I hope it continues for a very long time. Keep up the amazing work. You’re helping lots of young people and I look forward to crossing paths again soon.

Jacqueline Butler
Thank you, Sam. It’s been a pleasure.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jacqueline Butler

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 1, 2025 by Educator Student Leadership Student Success Student-Centered Leadership Wellness Coordinator 0

Helen Pereira-Raso – Head of School at Holy Trinity School

Helen Pereira-Raso – Head of School at Holy Trinity School
About Helen Pereira-Raso

Helen Pereira-Raso is the Head of School at Holy Trinity School, a highly progressive and innovative Canadian Independent School located in Richmond Hill, ON. In her role as Head of School at Holy Trinity School (HTS) Helen brings a forward-thinking, progressive approach to education that is the foundation for HTS’s reputation as leaders in learning.

Helen’s career as an educational leader has always focused on what matters most — developing a school culture in which all learners, adult and young alike, are able to explore, create and learn in meaningful ways. She is committed to professional learning as essential in the journey of educators and has led workshops globally. 

A visionary leader, Helen has been instrumental in building the HTS Learning Network, an ecosystem that is dedicated to learners, adult and young, experiencing relevant, personalized and meaningful learning experiences. Her leadership and innovative approaches, combined with her passion and commitment to developing learning environments that inspire all learners, are what drive her life’s work. 

Connect with Helen Pereira-Raso: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Holy Trinity School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we have a very special guest. Today’s guest is the head of school at Holy Trinity School in Richmond Hill. Helen Pereira-Raso has established herself as a visionary leader in progressive education, championing a culture where both students and adults can explore, create, and learn meaningfully.

Sam Demma
Her creation of the HTS Learning Network demonstrates her commitment to building educational ecosystems that prioritize personalized, relevant learning experiences. A globally recognized educator, Helen’s forward-thinking approach and dedication to professional development has positioned Holy Trinity School as a leader

Sam Demma
in innovative education. Helen, thank you so much for taking the time out of your schedule to be on the show today. I’m honored to have you.

Helen Pereira-Raso
It’s so wonderful to be with you here again, Sam, and to be in conversation with you. It’s always a joy and learning from you. Love every minute of it.

Sam Demma
Please introduce yourself and tell the educator listening a little bit about the reasons you got into education in the first place.

Helen Pereira-Raso
My story is, oh, my journey into education might be a little bit different than most. People often talk about the love that they had, the most amazing teachers they’ve had that inspired them into education. And for sure, I’ve had some incredible educators in my journey, but it wasn’t the impetus for me to get into education.

Helen Pereira-Raso
So I have taught both in the public system here in Ontario in my 25 year journey and counting, I’m not anywhere near retiring or ever wanna retire. 25 years, both started in the public system in Dufferin Peel and then moved into the independent school system.

Helen Pereira-Raso
And so I’ve had the honor of teaching in both of our systems here in Ontario and learning in each of them. And the reason I got into education was because I had a teacher who used to tell me that I was going to amount to nothing. And that is something that has stuck with me till this ripe old age that I will not disclose at this time. But it really was something that impacted me. I think I went through an

Helen Pereira-Raso
elementary school journey where teachers, just the teachers that I had in my life were inspiring, were supportive. As an immigrant to this school, to this country, I started school not speaking English, and I don’t ever remember feeling different or not feeling supported or cared for. And so that was my elementary school journey where I felt like I thrived and I had support and I believed in myself and had confidence. And then I got to high school and high school is always a little bit messier. And we personally go through lots of things, relationships, friendships, understanding yourself. But in that moment, you know, for me,

Helen Pereira-Raso
that journey was filled with also some educators who weren’t the kindest, I would say today, but at that time was normalized. And it left an impact on me at a time that I was perhaps most vulnerable and questioning what was I going to do with my life. It was grade 11 when this all happened and I’ll never forget it. And so I promised myself that as I started to go and to explore what my career options were going to be, I volunteered back at my high school when I was in university.

Helen Pereira-Raso
I volunteered at a law firm because I thought I’m either going to be a lawyer or I’m going to be a teacher. which one is it? And in that journey, I came to discover that I wanted to teach, I wanted to be the teacher that no kid ever felt that they were alone because of me. And so that’s really been what’s guided me,

Helen Pereira-Raso
what’s been my sense of purpose is that I will always be here to make sure kids know that they belong and that they’re worth it and they have everything they need within them to thrive and succeed with the right people around them to build them up.

Sam Demma
There’s a speaker named Josh Shipp and he says every student is one caring adult away from being a success story. And I could not agree more that the words of a caring adult can build us up or completely tear us down. And sometimes we forget about that latter section of that statement. The words that we choose to use and the actions we take impact the thoughts other people have and their emotions and as a result, their actions and outcomes.

Sam Demma
And it’s funny. I there’s a, there’s a moment in my career when I was 20 years old, where I made a decision not to join a specific agency. And the owner of the agency told me, Mark, this day down is the best or worst decision you ever made in your entire life. And it was someone that I flew to the US to meet

Sam Demma
and bought their books and programs and took their courses. And I remember how much self doubt I experienced. And it was not only someone I aspired to be like, it was someone I wanted to work with. And I spent a couple of months really doubting

Sam Demma
my abilities and myself. And then one day I woke up and I grabbed a marker and I opened the calendar and I put, I went back to the date and I wrote down best decision you ever made. And I had this little chip on my shoulder for a few years. And it sounds like that was something that drove you to, I’m curious did you in those moments how did you how did you deal with those emotions in that experience?

Helen Pereira-Raso
You know it probably not in the best way I was 17 years old yeah you can only imagine that you know in that moment I’m I truly that that teacher, the intentions behind their words wasn’t what I made meaning of. I truly believe that. But what we sometimes lose sight of that I can reflect on now is that, and it’s just as you said, Sam, our words matter and they matter more than we actually might think.

Helen Pereira-Raso
And so I made meaning that here’s somebody that I respect. It was one of my favorite classes. So like you, I’m like, what? And how could this teacher say this about me?

Helen Pereira-Raso
I love her class. I love her.

Helen Pereira-Raso
What’s going on?

Helen Pereira-Raso
Where’s the disconnect here? And I don’t actually believe that this was about her. It was a moment about me. The meaning I made from her words was that I wasn’t good enough. And that started with my own self-doubt. And I didn’t realize in that moment.

Helen Pereira-Raso
So it became a lot of, I skipped her class, stopped going, I don’t want to deal with her, I was flippant. And so my frustrations with her words and what I understood her to say about me or to the judgments she passed on me was to just be defensive and not, you know, not engage in my own self-reflection at that time. But years later, the beautiful thing is that we do get the chance to reflect no matter how long

Helen Pereira-Raso
it takes us. And so, you know, in my journey now and as I, you know, I’ve told this story before to students that, you know, you think I got into teaching because yes, I love young people and I love being around them. They are my greatest inspiration. Like there’s not a bad day when you’re with a young person. There’s always something that inspires you. But my journey started from a place where somebody really didn’t think that I was good

Helen Pereira-Raso
enough, that I respected. But what I’ve come to understand is that’s exactly what I needed for me to truly do the self-dig, that self-work to say, actually, you can do this. Why are you letting her words impact you like this? That’s on you. That’s on you.

Helen Pereira-Raso
She’s moved on. She’s got other classes now. What she said is not even on her radar. This was on me. And so I think it took me a few years. It took me time to be away from it,

Helen Pereira-Raso
to finally realize actually that was a moment that was a catalyst to do my self-work that I hadn’t necessarily been provoked to do in the same way.

Sam Demma
A lot of students deal with the self-doubt without the additional words of others that they look up to telling them they can’t do something. Once you got into education, how did you practically build belief in young people? What are the things you could do in the classroom or what are

Sam Demma
the things you did do to make sure that young people knew, you know, you are supported here, you are welcomed and you are enough.

Helen Pereira-Raso
I listened. I didn’t come into my classes, both as a teacher and as a leader, assuming I knew what they needed. I had lots of conversations. I continue to have conversations. I ask their input.

Helen Pereira-Raso
I encourage them to be part of decision-making. When I started this career in a community that probably taught me my greatest lessons, students that were torn between gangs, that were in and out of jail, and bright, beautiful human beings, all of them,

Helen Pereira-Raso
where they were in their journeys and how they were showing up in my class and in the world and bright, beautiful human beings, all of them.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Where they were in their journeys and how they were showing up in my class and in the world was just different for each of them. And in that time, I remember teaching a history class and I was taught, I was about to teach World War I and a kid at the back of the class turned to me and he was like, what the bleep are you teaching me about this war? I’ve got my own war to deal with on the street

Helen Pereira-Raso
and I stopped because I’m like what? And he’s like do you think I care what happened in the 1920s and 30s like that is so irrelevant what I want me to talk want to talk about war come hang out with me on the street one day.” And I’m like, oh my, oh my God. And that was not anywhere in my lessons, but what that taught me in that moment was, Helen, maybe the curriculum needs to look a little bit different. Maybe actually I could talk about what some of the things that happen in war, what drives

Helen Pereira-Raso
us to build alliances, what drives us to join gangs, what drives us to, you know, military up through the stories of my students, because I can draw connections. Because in that moment, it didn’t matter what I had to teach him, it actually was irrelevant because of the life experiences he was going through. I taught geography through skateboarding.

Helen Pereira-Raso
We looked at urban planning through skateboard parks. Where do you put them? How do you put them? Because the moment, what I needed to realize in that moment is if I don’t know my students, what I’m doing there doesn’t actually matter. Because my work is to help them understand and make sense of the world, their world.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Yes, the curriculum is a vehicle, but it’s actually just about showing up for them. And so I let them know that they matter through listening. I let them know that they matter through incorporating their stories and their experiences in my lessons. I taught religion using Tupac’s poems because that’s what mattered to them. And it forever changed me. And so today we have all of these theories in education around making learning personal, making sure that it’s personalized for the students,

Helen Pereira-Raso
meet them where they are. I got a hard lesson first year, 23 years old, teaching. My students taught me that before anybody was talking about it as pedagogy and the future of education and how we should be. My students taught me that when they said to me, pay attention to me and my story, not what’s in your textbook. That’s how you let them know they matter. That’s how you let them know that you’re there for them.

Helen Pereira-Raso
When you show up the next day and you’re like, you guys haven’t had lunch. Okay. I’ve got you there snacks here. If you need anything, come get them as you need them. You can always come into my classroom. You can always come into my office.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Do you need a minute? Let’s take a walk. When you hear them, when you feel them, when you know that, you know, they’re in your class and they’re just not the way you’ve come to know them and the way they’ve been, and you pause for a moment to recognize that, then they know you’ve got their back. And there’s not a single child who doesn’t deserve that from all of us in this profession.

Sam Demma
What a powerful lesson to learn at such a young age in the profession and carry forward with you.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Forever. They changed me forever. They made me better. Those first five years of my life at that school made me the best human being and the best teacher I could possibly be. Can you tell me more about the journey up until now,

Sam Demma
the different schools you were a part of and the roles you played? Yeah. So I started as a geography civics poly sci high school

Helen Pereira-Raso
teacher. I’m trained in high school grades 4th right through to grade 12, but spent most of my time working in high school, especially in the public system. And in this first school that I taught everything that we were assigned. You’re a first year teacher, and your first five years of teaching whatever anybody gives you a job, and you’re happy about it, and you work your butt off, and you know you’re better for it.

Helen Pereira-Raso
And then throughout that journey, I thought I coached, I made sure that I could be part of supporting my students, all of that. And then in that journey, I became a better person for my kids, not my kids, sorry, for the students that I’m a part of. And so my first year, my first five years, I was a school out in Brampton, and I really got,

Helen Pereira-Raso
I always say that that school taught me how to be the best teacher to students. It was such a beautiful, diverse community, students coming from all kinds of experiences, all faiths, traditions, customs, point of views, and life experiences, some very privileged and some not so privileged. And in that mix, those students helped me listen, learn to listen, learn to make connections that

Helen Pereira-Raso
were meaningful to their life, and help me set a foundation for what it meant to be a great educator. I transferred to a new school that was just starting up north of Brampton. And in that journey as being part of a founding team of teachers, it’s always exciting

Helen Pereira-Raso
that you get to shape the school, shape the culture. It’s a brand new building. We were in a warehouse for the first few years. We got to our beautiful new building. It was like, whoa, this place is so cool. But there I had the opportunity to transition into a role as a student success leader, a

Helen Pereira-Raso
teacher at the school. And I got to work with students who are at risk of not graduating, and to mentor them and work closely with them towards their graduation pathway while also teaching classes. And so that coaching opportunity to work one-on-one with students and families to help them find their success and different academic pathways that would allow them to get to graduation, you know, really opened up my eyes to the different ways students can actually be successful and there’s not one path in school. I lived far from that school in North Brampton and while I was on maternity leave I had an opportunity to then transition to a school here in Toronto, an independent school in

Helen Pereira-Raso
Toronto and it was the first time that I taught in an all-girls community and so that was amazing. So it was my first independent school and there, the thing that I always say that changed me about coming into the independent school system is I learned how to be a professional in my craft. Learned how to do research, I learned how to, you know, how to really get good at, you know, different teaching strategies, resources, professional development, so much was invested in me to

Helen Pereira-Raso
be excellent at my craft. And so the level of professionalism that I brought changed from the on-the-ground grassroots work of being in the classroom in the public system. So I had access to this amazing amount of resources. Our students were so motivated. You know, the same diversity, same experiences, but there was more homogeneity in their life experiences and the supports that

Helen Pereira-Raso
they had and the resources they had. But the thing is, is that kids still can feel depression, exclusion, isolation, all of those things, no matter where you are in life or what your background is or social economic status is, all of those human experiences are still real for every single child. And so the work that I brought from learning and working with students who have had such difficult challenges and obstacles in life that taught me about resilience, that taught

Helen Pereira-Raso
me about perseverance when things were so tough. That’s the thing that they taught me the most. I was able to bring some of that coaching and mentoring to our students who had resources, who had privilege, but still were suffering and needed that support. And so that’s, as I transitioned to the independent school there, I started as a classroom teacher, moved into leadership, and then in my leadership started working more with,

Helen Pereira-Raso
although still teaching, which is so important, I got to work more with the adults and working with our teachers on their journey and how they can show up and be the best for every child that’s in their classroom and diversify their lessons

Helen Pereira-Raso
and think about how their work is meaningful to their own students in different ways. And then eventually from that leadership role, I then moved into a systems leadership role in the independent school system as a head of school, which is the current role I have now, which allows me to really make some important decisions and set vision and strategy for the school we want to be, and work with our staff and our students and our families and our board on really setting clear

Helen Pereira-Raso
strategic goals and vision and values that align with who we aspire to be and how we’re going to meet children, young people in their lives. I always have to correct myself on the children beat because they’re not all children. Just how we meet young people in their lives and how do we provide, you know, the best learning experience for them regardless of where they people in their lives and how do we provide the best learning experience for them regardless of where they are in their learning pathway

Helen Pereira-Raso
because everybody deserves that. And so that journey, my journey has taken me to that role now. And that’s where I am in a very, very privileged place as a systems leader to enact policies that support students and give them the tools and the resources they need

Helen Pereira-Raso
to thrive and to mentor and coach educators to be the best for themselves, but also for those that they serve, because our work is of service to others. And as you’ve said very, very often, and as I’ve gotten to hear you speak a few times now,

Helen Pereira-Raso
you have to take care of yourself so that you can give all of yourself to someone else. And so that work is so important to kind of unpack where you are and who you are and how you’re showing up in order to be the best, not only for you, but for those in your care and your stewardship.

Helen Pereira-Raso
So that’s where my journey has taken me. And I’ve always said, educators are the stewards of humanity. And we are, in fact, actually. We are shaping humanity for generations. And so if that work doesn’t matter, I don’t know what does actually. The work is the most important work.

Sam Demma
And I was speaking to another educator recently who told me that there’s been a shortage in their district of teachers. And he said, we have to find a way to reframe education so that more people get involved and excited about it but it is so clear that your passion and excitement is shining right through during this interview and I know that any school or young person or staff

Sam Demma
member that you interact with and touch is left better than when you found them. I’m curious when it comes to your own personal development and professional development, what are a few of the things that have been incredibly valuable for you that another educator listening may look into themselves if they want to continue improving their craft and just showing up better for themselves and the students that they teach?

Helen Pereira-Raso
I would say there’s three things that are really, that have left, you know, leave me in a place where I’m constantly in a learning mode. Your mindset is everything. And so for me, it’s working on being reflective. Whatever information I get daily, I try to make sense of it. What does that mean for me?

Helen Pereira-Raso
What could I have done differently? How could I have showed up differently? Even if it’s not about me, it is about me when we’re in community. There’s a collectiveness to our work. And so how could I have showed up differently?

Helen Pereira-Raso
So being a reflective practitioner, having the tools to ask yourself the hard questions. I write a lot about my thinking. I write weekly to our community and to our staff, and that gives me an opportunity to reflect on the week, to reflect myself as I prepare for those weekly communications on what’s going on in the school, why is it happening, what am I learning?

Helen Pereira-Raso
I’m also a learner, so I’m always reading any educational theory, any educational practice, any documents that come out about the future of education, what we need to do, how it impacts students, educators, the systems. I’m always, always reading. And that is important because it helps me stay on top of our craft and our profession and show up the best I possibly can for the generation that’s in front of me.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Because it’s not the same. The students that we have in our kindergarten class right now that are going to graduate in 2039, I cannot teach them the way that I did the class I taught in 1999. It is a different world. I didn’t even have a laptop in my class. Nobody had a phone. But that’s what it, you know, like, those are the things that are so different that I’m present in what’s changing in education. I think that allows me to show up and be the best that I possibly can in my craft. And I would say some of the PD that’s changed me the most has been doing my coaching certifications and to learn how to be a real

Helen Pereira-Raso
instructional coach, to learn how to have difficult conversations so that they’re honest and they build us to be better and stronger collectively and self. And so in every coaching conversation that I’m able to be a part of, it’s not just about coaching someone else. That moment teaches me something about me. Did I ask the right questions? Did I help that person in that moment? Is this what they wanted to be coached on?

Helen Pereira-Raso
Did I take them down a different path? So my coaching certifications that I’ve done through the national school reform faculty, the Roy group, they have been instrumental in helping me deepen my practice and be more reflective because when you’re a coach, you are. But also ask the right questions.

Helen Pereira-Raso
It’s so tough to ask people the right question to actually get to what’s at the heart of what the tension is that’s residing within them or the questions they have. And listening, really truly listening, active listening as we now call it, once upon a time was just really listening. But there is a difference. as we now call it. Once upon a time was just really listening.

Helen Pereira-Raso
But there is a difference.

Helen Pereira-Raso
We’ve all lived it. There’s truly a difference. Truly being present for people and listening, and then asking the right questions has been such a gift to changing how I show up professionally and who I am today versus who I was when I started my career.

Sam Demma
This has been such an inspiring conversation. Again, your passion just shines through. I know it’s an audio format, so people can’t see you smiling when you’re smiling, but I know they can feel it through their headphones. I’m so grateful that you’re doing the work,

Sam Demma
you’re doing an education, and I look forward to following the entire journey, wherever it takes you and the impact you continue to create. Keep up the amazing work. It’s inspiring to watch, and I’m excited to continue following.

Sam Demma
If someone’s listening and is inspired as well, and they wanna ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Helen Pereira-Raso
LinkedIn is probably the easiest. I’m always checking my LinkedIn. So if you just look me up at Helen Pereira-Raso on LinkedIn, you’ll find me. We can connect that way. And you can also find me on Instagram at htsheadofschool and email. And so you can email me at hraso@hts.on.ca, and I’m happy to have a conversation. I can’t thank you enough, Sam, for this opportunity to share my story, but it’s really easy when you wake up every day and you do what you love.

Sam Demma
Thanks, Helen.

Helen Pereira-Raso
That’s the game changer. And so just like you, continue to do what you love because that’s what fuels us and makes sure that we are ever so present that we are ever so present in the incredible journeys we share.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Helen Pereira-Raso

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

April 29, 2025 by Director of Education Educator 0

Mark Chapin — Principal of Meyer Middle School

Mark Chapin — Principal of Meyer Middle School
About Mark Chapin

Mark Chapin is the principal of Meyer Middle School in River Falls, Wisconsin, serving approximately 750 students in grades 6 – 8. Meyer Middle School was recognized as a National School of Character in 2016 and again in 2024.  Mark has served as a building administrator in the School District of River Falls for 16 years.  

Prior to coming to River Falls, Mark taught for 12 years in the Ellsworth Community School District as a high school special education teacher and an 8th grade US History teacher. While in Ellsworth he also coached cross-country, track, tennis and basketball.  In 2008 Mark was recognized as the Teacher of the Year in the Ellsworth Community School District. 

In 2019 Mark earned his doctorate degree from Bethel University.  His dissertation focused on character education, leadership and the change process. Mark currently serves as a character education coach through Alverno College and on the Wisconsin Character Education Partnership Advisory Committee.  

Mark works closely with the American Legion Post 121 in River Falls serving on their Veterans Memorial Committee. In 2014 he received the Post 121 Community Service Award.
Finally, in 2023 Mark was the recipient of the Herb Kohl Educational Foundation Leadership award.

In his spare time Mark enjoys fly fishing, splitting wood and mountain biking. 

Connect with Mark Chapin: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Meyer Middle School

School District of River Falls

Ellsworth Community School District

Bethel University

Alverno College

Wisconsin Character Education Partnership Advisory Committee

American Legion Post 121

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Mark Chapin. Mark and I connected months ago now. He has shared some impactful quotes with me over email. He let me know that he has 16 rules or principles that he shares with his middle school students every single year and it’s a big hit in his school. He is a advocate and has a huge passion for character development and how it can shape the life of our young people. He works closely with the state of Wisconsin when it comes to character development and I’ve really enjoyed our conversations about books to read and personal development and serving and supporting youth. Mark, thank you so much for taking some of your time to come on the show here today.

Mark Chapin
Thanks a lot, Sam. It’s truly an honor and it’s a privilege to be on your podcast today. And we’re super excited to have you come to Meijer Middle School at the end of April. I know our students and our staff are looking forward to you and your message.

Sam Demma
Let’s hope by then the snow storms have passed. Yeah, I agree. The weather’s back to normal. Do me a favor, Mark, and just take a moment to share a little bit about who you are and what got you interested in building and supporting the character of young people.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, my background, I grew up actually, it’s kind of a crazy story, but I’m the principal. I’m actually sitting in my principal’s office. I graduated from Rural Falls High School in 1990, which is in western Wisconsin. Went to UW-Eau Claire, which is in western Wisconsin, and got a degree, a 1.8 degree, with a special education minor. Student taught at the tribal school up in Hayward, Wisconsin, which is about two and a half hours north of our home here. And then ended up teaching for 13 years. I was a special education teacher for six and then I was a US History teacher for six years. And then I was an assistant principal at Ellsworth High School, which is right down the road, before coming back to my home in River Falls, and I’ve been here for 16 years. In terms of what got me really into education, my mom was a special education paraprofessional, and she provided me some opportunities to work with students, and I also had an opportunity to coach basketball when I was a senior in high school. A group of us, four guys, coached our seventh grade team. And I really realized at a pretty young age that I really had a knack and really enjoyed working with kids. And so my dad wasn’t too keen on me being a teacher. He was worried about me making enough money and supporting myself. So I actually went to school to be an econ major.

Mark Chapin
I did that for a year and I realized I have no idea what a person with an econ degree does for a living. But I always knew in the back of my mind I wanted to teach. And then I worked at a summer camp for five summers up at Eagle River, Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin. And I just I think I followed my calling at that point. And in terms of the yes question about character education, I’ve always been passionate about positive psychology, you know, developing ourselves, but then how can we take that and apply that here at school? And I was fortunate enough to be on a committee called the Healthy Lives Committee through our strategic plan and pitched this idea of character education. And it’s kind of evolved here in our district and it’s being implemented in all of our schools, our four elementary schools, our middle school and our high school. And I just feel like historically education has been something where, you know, going back to Horace Mann and Thomas Jefferson, it was educating the head and educating the heart. And I feel like we’ve gotten away from the heart. And so it’s something that I’ve just been really passionate about.

Sam Demma
When you talk about character education, tell me more about what that means to you or what that lens looks like that you look through when you talk about it.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, that’s a great question. What I know is that the best teacher of character are adults in our kids’ worlds, and that starts with parents. But we also know students don’t grow up, our kids don’t get to pick their parents.

Mark Chapin
But definitely, character has to start in the home. And so as adults, we need to make sure that we’re modeling good character. And so within our district, we wanted to find a model that was out there. And we looked at different frameworks.

Mark Chapin
The one that we came across was from character.org. It’s based on 11 principles. It’s not a canned curriculum. It really helps shape your culture of your school. You start off with principle one by identifying what you value as a community. In our district, we sat down with 40 community members.

Mark Chapin
We went round and round and round. We had two really lengthy meetings and we landed on nine character traits that we value as a community. And that’s true for the framework. So the community can decide what they value. And these are universal values.

Mark Chapin
And I think people get hung up on this idea of values and ethics, but it really transcends all religions. It goes back to Aristotle. And when you read off the list of these character traits or values, it’s hard to argue with them. So things like gratitude, curiosity, respect, responsibility, compassion, perseverance, you know, it’s hard to argue with those things. So, you know, we start with the framework. I mentioned modeling, that’s principle eight, but that framework has really guided our work. And it’s the work that I have an opportunity to work with other districts on how to implement that framework.

Sam Demma
How do you ensure the principles or values are consistently reinforced within the school community? It sounds like they become foundational. Is it month by month? Is it through the teachers? Obviously, modeling the behavior must be a big part of it. But I’d love to hear more.

Mark Chapin
Yeah. Yeah, it’s a great question. So we we focus on one character trade a month and we kind of joke that, you know, once we finish the perseverance, that kids don’t have to persevere anymore.

Mark Chapin
That’s not the case. We want to make sure we’re doing these all the time, but we do do a character kickoff once a month. I get a chance to get in front of kids. We define what it is. We talk about what it looks like. I usually typically show a video. If you guys or anybody out there listening wants to find some really good resource, go to Steve Hartman, Kindness 101. They’re short clips. He’s from CBS and he’s fantastic. So we show a video and then we do a quick reflection, and I send them on their way. We have a group called Girls Who Give Back that signs up around the building, so it’s communicated, so there’s that kind of visual marketing of it as well. And then each grade level has a different theme. That sixth grade focuses on what’s called the Everest Project every year, and that’s focusing on goal setting, so identifying your goals, identifying your character strengths, so they go through a strength finder with the kids, take them through the goal-setting process. That’s really inspiring for our kids.

Mark Chapin
Seventh grade is our service-learning project, so giving back. So, it’s the, when we talk about character, we talk about the head, getting kids thinking about it, the heart, getting them feeling it, and then the hands. So the head, heart, and hands, the hands part is going out in the community. And I’m sure you’ll talk about this with your backpack and your taco and all that,

Mark Chapin
which I’m looking forward to our kids hearing that story. So that giving back, the hands-on, the service learning. And then eighth grade, we have what’s called academic career planning. So we’ve charactered into that as well. And so we have a career fair, and through our careers class that we have in eighth grade, we identify kids’ strengths, we do career interest inventories and those types of things. So, and then like I said, we model it, we have to model it, continue to model it. And then the framework itself, the 11 principles, there’s a rubric that goes with it. So every three years we come back, we identify what we’re doing well, we identify one goal area to get a little bit better every year.

Sam Demma
It sounds very methodical and thought out. And I hope that if there’s another educator listening to this and they’re curious, they reach out to you to ask some questions about it so they can bring something similar to their district or their school. It sounds like you’ll be doing this work even after you finish at the school. So I’ll definitely make sure we include your email information in the show notes in case anyone does want to reach out.

Sam Demma
I had an educator who pulled me to the side of his desk and he said, Sam, living with principles and working hard is never a waste because it builds your character and you carry your character forward with you for the rest of your life. Living with principles and working hard is never a waste because it builds your character and you carry your character forward with you for the rest of your life. How do we remind young people that every choice they make impacts their character, both the positive and the negative? And when a student does make a mistake, how do we address it in a way that builds them up instead of tears them down?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s a great, great question. And I mentioned my 16 life lessons, and one is be forgiving. And so my middle school has been recognized twice as a national school character through character.org, once in 2016 and again in 2023.

Mark Chapin
And I often talk about just because we’ve been recognized as a national school character doesn’t mean we’re perfect. We work with imperfect human beings and I wish I could control everything that comes out of 750 kids’ mouths and all their actions, but I can’t. And so we tell kids that and we have to be forgiving of ourselves. And anytime there’s a kid that’s in any type of trouble or hasn’t demonstrated good character, I let them know, like, listen, good kids make poor choices.

Mark Chapin
They make bad choices sometimes. It doesn’t make them a bad person or a bad kid. And so kids need to hear that. And the important thing is to reflect on it, learn from it, and try not to repeat it. I think that that’s the important thing when it comes to, you know, that we aren’t perfect and we are gonna make mistakes, but we’re gonna keep striving for it, right?

Mark Chapin
You wanna strive for excellence, strive for good character. And you mentioned the other thing is, one of my other life lessons is yes and no are the two most important words we’ll ever use in our life. Right, so sometimes it’s a split split split second. Like, and so we talked about the importance of pausing before you say something to somebody. Pause before you do something that you might regret.

Mark Chapin
So just take a second to pause. And so that’s one more reminder when we talk about character.

Sam Demma
Where did the inspiration come for you to sit down and craft some of the principles, the 16 life lessons you shared with students? I have recently been inspired by many authors, some of which are very much focused on building your life’s philosophy. One is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, who’s passed away now. And he spends his whole lecture talking about the importance of philosophy and how circumstances determine where you start, but your philosophy determines where you finish. What inspired you to start crafting this life lesson philosophy for your students?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. Again, our podcast, isn’t going to see this, but this is by my desk. We had a keynote speaker that came by, I don’t know how many years ago, and this is when I was teaching, grade. And it was fundamental rejuvenation. And it had 12 things on it. And I started looking at the list.

Mark Chapin
I was like, those resonate with me. And I said, are there more to that? Or am I on the same page with this, our speaker? And I think kind of in some ways, these are the character things that we pass on to our kids. Before I knew it was character when I was teaching, you know, this was 15, 16 years ago, probably longer than that, almost 20 years ago now, I wanted to pass this along to my students. And so a lot of this is really character-based stuff that probably at the time I didn’t realize was character, but these are the things that kids can take with them that’s gonna make an impact. And I think about like employers, what are employers looking for? I mean, do they want a positive attitude? They want people that can collaborate with other people. There are all these intangible things we talk about character, but where is it being intentionally taught or implemented in schools today? It is just so important.

Mark Chapin
And you can you can look at all the research on it. What employers are looking for: teach the skill and hire for character.

Sam Demma
I had a mentor tell me at the bottom of my job application to put a filter that said, if you believe you’re the right fit for the role, please record a one minute video explaining why. And I was hiring for an executive assistant and we spent $250 on LinkedIn promoting the post. And we received 2000 applications.

Mark Chapin
Wow.

Sam Demma
Guess how many people filmed and sent through a video? 14. And when you do the percentage, it’s like 0.01, less than 0.01%.

Mark Chapin
Wow.

Sam Demma
And I thought, wow, like attention to detail. This role requires attention to detail, yet 99.9% of people didn’t even read the actual job posting. And the reality is that these are individuals who are unemployed and looking for employment. And I was like, ah, like I just wanted to shake them and just grab them and say, come on, you deserve better than this. You can do better than this. And I think that a piece of that comes back to character and how you treat every interaction and every touchpoint in life. And you piqued my curiosity with the 16 lessons, and now you’ve shared two.

Sam Demma
Do you mind sharing a few more of them that are top of mind right now?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, so you just mentioned, kind of just taking pride in your work, right? Attention to detail. We talk about be a craftsman. So back in the day, how people got business is through word of mouth.

Mark Chapin
And so craftsmen would sign their name somewhere on a piece of furniture. So we talk about when you do turn your homework in, sign it with pride. Like you’re the craftsman, make sure there’s attention to detail. Did you read the directions? Are you doing your best work? I talk about, and this is a good example of taking pride in your work. I asked the kids, how many of you mow the lawn? There’s quite a few kids that still mow lawn. I said, how many start daydreaming? A lot of hands go up. How many of you start daydreaming and all of a sudden you look back and there’s a 20-foot strip that you completely missed? I said, okay, me too. I said, how many of you go back and mow it? Half the hands go down. I said, how many of you go back and mow it? You know, they keep their, that’s pride in your work, right? Are you going back and mowing that strip of grass? So that’s another one we talk about. I’m big in having a positive attitude. I think people, it’s hard to be around people that are negative. I think it sucks the life out of you.

Mark Chapin
I talk a lot about Viktor Frankl, the last of our human freedoms is the ability to choose our own attitude. We talk about that. The importance of goal setting. I share a story about Billy Mills and his goal setting process. He won the 10,000 meters in the 1960 Olympics. Talk about leaving your comfort zone. What else? I mentioned the yes and no.

Mark Chapin
Your true character is how you act and how you behave when nobody’s looking. So that’s important. Finding a career you love. Taking care of your body. Here’s an example of you never know how your words are gonna have an impact.

Mark Chapin
We talk about how your tongue is like the rudder of a ship and it can steer you one way or the other. And your words can build people up or tear people down. Like use it to be encouraging. The word encouragement means putting courage into others. And so I shared this story when I was in college. I was getting out of shape. I used to be in really good shape.

Mark Chapin
I was putting on weight. I looked at myself in the mirror when I was a senior in college, I was like, isn’t this the best shape I’m gonna be in the rest of my life? And so, sorry, I should have taken my phone off the hook.

Mark Chapin
Sorry. I started training for a marathon. I signed for a marathon the next day, started training. I had really no business to start, but I did. And I finished my first marathon. And so I shared this story. I mentioned my life lessons. I shared with my eighth graders. And didn’t think of anything other than the last day of school, I shared my list. I shared on the first day as well. And three years later, the student came up to me. He was at prom, and he said, you don’t recognize me, Mr. Chapin, do you? And I said, no, I don’t.

Mark Chapin
He said, your face looks familiar, I can’t picture you. He goes, you don’t recognize me because I lost 100 pounds. I said, how in the world did you lose 100 pounds? He said, I remember what you told me on the last day of school in eighth grade. I started to watch what I ate and I lost. You just, you never know how your words are going to impact people.

Sam Demma
I think it’s such a crazy and beautiful experience when you share inspiration and you’re not sure who it’s going to touch, how it’s going to touch them, when it’s going to click, but when you do see the result of that, it’s really gratifying. You know, I had a mentor for three years named Chris Cummins who is now like an uncle to me in many regards. And he would say, Sam, try this, do this. And, okay, coach, I’m doing it. And every time I would show up and I would try and I would take the shot he told me to take. And after three years, we’ve now transitioned from a coaching relationship just to very close friends and colleagues. And he hasn’t coached anyone else or taken many people on. And he’s like, you know, I tell a lot of people to do the same things I told you to do and most people don’t.

Sam Demma
And I, and I just think, what phenomenon is that? Like, how do we explain that? You know, and this is a person I wanted to be like, and I looked up to, and it sounds like that message you shared really connected with that young person. I’m sure it made you feel like good about it, right?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s the whole starfish. You probably read the starfish, right? Yeah.

Sam Demma
Yeah.

Mark Chapin
It’s like the thousands, you just don’t know if you’re going to make an impact. And there’s certain days where you just you get tired and you get frustrated. Like, am I making am I making an impact at all? And then you’ll get that one note. We’ll get that one email or that one phone call. It’s like, yep, it made a difference.

Sam Demma
Now, what habits do you practice consistently outside of your time

Sam Demma
in the classroom that helps you show up as best you possibly can.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, that’s another great question. First of all, I think self-care is important. So I know when I’m getting anxious and edgy, like if I’m not exercising regularly, I’m not my best self. I do my best thinking after exercise. I’m always in a positive mood,

Mark Chapin
even though I don’t feel like at the time getting up in the morning, like I’m swimming laps or riding my bike in my basement in the winter time. Like that’s important. I think reading devotions, I start my day every day with two devotions.

Mark Chapin
I send out the daily quote, which I’ve sent to you the last couple of days now. You’re on a very select list of people I send it to. But I do send it to my staff every day and then my staff pass it on to their kids in the morning. Not all of them yet. I’m trying to get them to do that because there are such great quotes. That’s from values.com if you’re looking for some kind of motivational boost.

Mark Chapin
You mentioned Jim Rohn. Just watching YouTube, a lot of positive psychology, how can I better myself? Those are kind of the main things.

Sam Demma
I read a book recently that was really influential to me called Turning Pro by a guy named Steven Pressfield. And he talks about the difference between amateurs and professionals. And to be frank, I felt quite embarrassed about myself after I finished reading the book in a really good way. And I think sometimes the inspiration comes from an emotion like embarrassment. And for me, it came from this idea that I’ve spent a lot of time speaking, and especially in the earlier parts of my career, practicing my speeches and consistently writing.

Sam Demma
And then I got so busy, I would just write and speak when I was on the road doing it for people. But outside of that, there wasn’t much of a daily habit and or practice of doing it. And that book really clearly outlines that professionals have a daily practice, and they have a space where they practice, and they have a time when they practice, and they have an attention around their practice. And they show up every single day, and they’re ruthless with their work. They are craftsmen. He shared a story of Pablo Picasso, and someone bought his paintings and stuck them in a gallery.

Sam Demma
And two years later, the gallery opened, and Picasso walked in as a guest to check out his paintings. And he grabbed a razor and cut all of his paintings up on the wall into shreds. And the gallery owner said, what are you doing? And he said, this work is pathetic.

Sam Demma
It’s not a reflection of my work. I will get you some new ones. And I just thought, what a standard to hold yourself to, but to be a true craftsman. And I really appreciate you sharing that reminder to just continue being a student and listening to the things that will change your mindset and continuing to read.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, you mentioned, Sam, that consistency. I just share this with our students in our auditorium with one of our character kickoffs, just how important that consistency with either training or practicing. And I shared with them that it took me five years to finish my dissertation to get my doctorate degree. And I wasn’t making progress. I just, I wasn’t getting it done. And the lit review, the reading, this takes forever. I kept driving by this house in my neighborhood that the workers would show up every day at 6:45 and there they were. And before you know it, the foundation was built and then the framing was up. And I realized like, if I’m gonna get this dissertation up, I have to do work every single day. Otherwise the house isn’t going to get built. My dissertation is not going to get done. And that’s when I started making progress on my paper. Yeah.

Mark Chapin
You know, it’s funny too.

Sam Demma
Jim Rohn often says, my life changed when I was 25. I feel like I was subconsciously waiting until 25 to get in the saddle more consistently for certain things, you know? But I sincerely appreciate your time and the intention around all the work you’re doing. I’m beyond excited to visit the school soon and meet in person and collaborate with your school and your students. If there’s an educator listening, I’ll put your email in the show notes so they can reach out. Absolutely. But I wanted to just say sincerely, Mark, thank you so much for the time, the energy, and everything you’re doing in education.

Mark Chapin
Thanks, Sam. I appreciate it. And hopefully we get out fly fishing when you come to River Falls.

Sam Demma
Can’t wait.

Mark Chapin
All right, Sam, good to talk to you.

Sam Demma
Talk soon.

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April 8, 2025 by Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Student Success 0

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