Student Success

Dr. Kate Sievers — Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100

Dr. Kate Sievers — Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100
About Dr. Kate Sievers

Dr. Kate Sievers is the Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100. With 17 years of experience in administration and 12 years as a middle and high school teacher, she has dedicated her career to improving education and supporting students, educators, and families.

Dr. Sievers is passionate about building strong relationships within schools because she believes connections between people are essential for a positive learning environment. In today’s world, where social media and societal pressures can create division, she strives to bring people together instead of pushing them apart. She works to create a school culture that values respect, collaboration, and innovation, ensuring that every student and teacher feels supported and empowered to succeed.

Kate takes the time to listen to teachers and administrators, valuing their input as she makes decisions that always prioritize the needs of students. She is deeply passionate about curriculum and goes above and beyond to find high-quality resources at all levels that enhance learning and help students achieve and show progress. Additionally, she actively writes grants to secure funding that benefits students, ensuring they receive extra support and enrichment opportunities.

Understanding the importance of social-emotional learning (SEL), Kate ensures that all employees have the SEL resources they need while also ensuring students have the necessary support. Through her leadership, she continues to improve education by integrating technology, enhancing curriculum, and securing vital resources. Her commitment to education is driven by a desire to make schools places where everyone feels valued, supported, and inspired to learn and grow.

Connect with Dr. Kate Sievers: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Jersey Community Unit School District 100

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Dr. Kate Sievers.

Dr. Kate Sievers
Good morning.

Sam Demma
How are you?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’m well, I’m well.

Sam Demma
Dr. Kate brings 29 years of educational expertise to her role as administrative superintendent of curriculum and instruction, technology and grants at the Jersey Community Unit School District 100. Combining 17 years of administration with 12 years of classroom teaching experience, she champions relationship building as the foundation for effective learning environments. Her leadership philosophy centers on bringing people together in an

Sam Demma
increasingly divided world, actively listening to stakeholders while prioritizing student needs through curriculum development, grant writing, and comprehensive social emotional support systems for both students and staff. Dr. Kate, thank you so much for coming on the show here this morning.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You’re welcome. I’m glad to be here. Glad to join this morning.

Sam Demma
How did you get involved in, in education?

Dr. Kate Sievers
For me, Sam, it was, um, through coaching. I, my husband and I coached, uh, some elementary basketball teams for a while. And, um, as we grew, we went from elementary to high school and found that our time with the kids, and we didn’t have kids at the time, we were just newly married,

Dr. Kate Sievers
and found that we really enjoyed being with the kids and the families. And so through that love, I got to know the superintendent through the school district that we’re recoached. And I was in the banking industry at the time

Dr. Kate Sievers
and my job was getting located an hour away from our home. And so through that, I’m like, okay, maybe this is a change for me that maybe something else in my life needs to be happening. And so the superintendent approached me and said, hey, would you be interested in doing a long-term sub

Dr. Kate Sievers
for us if that becomes available? And so knowing that my job was changing and I was gonna be unemployed for a little bit and I said, yeah, possibly. So I did that long-term sub and I fell off and I said, yeah, possibly. So I did that long term sub and I fell off and I’ve never looked back. And so since then, 19, that was in 1994, I went back to school

Dr. Kate Sievers
and got my elementary and high school, high school, but it’s two different, way different elementary technology and high school business and taught high school business a little bit. And then I ended up with a K-8 computer position. And that’s when we didn’t even have internet then. And so that was a computer, which you don’t even know. So it was fun. So that’s kind of how I rolled into education. And it’s just been a great, great journey for me.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about coaching basketball. Where did that originate or where did that passion start from?

Dr. Kate Sievers
My husband and I both have been coaches for a long time. He’s been a softball coach for a long time. And when the basketball, I, my love of basketball, we both played basketball in high school. And basketball is kind of my go-to sport. A lot of people have a go-to something. Basketball is my go-to sport.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And loved it in elementary high school. We had some pretty good girls teams at the time that I was on. And just loved being part of the team, part of the culture. And not just for me, but that’s where I’ve learned, you know, I got to know still best friends today. And some great people that mentors and coaches who help make me who I am. And so knowing that that’s, you have such an impact

Dr. Kate Sievers
on a person through that coaching style and what you do as a coach really kind of brought me to that wanting to be a coach and wanting to be a mentor for the students and kids. And so that’s kind of where we both went, he and I. And so since then we coached high school basketball girls for, I want to say eight years, and then stopped to have our family.

Dr. Kate Sievers
We had already had one child and had another one on the way, and it was really becoming difficult. It’s just hard to manage a young family and do all of the running. And so we put a halt on that.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And then he came back years later as a softball coach, just within the last 10 years. And I’ve coached some state level softball teams in our area. So it’s been fun.

Sam Demma
I noticed when you joined the interview today on Zoom, right beside your name said mentor in brackets. Are you still mentoring people in different capacities to this day? And if so, what does that look like for you?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I am. So through the Illinois Principal Association, I am a principal mentor. The expertise, I’ve been a high school principal, I’ve been an assistant principal, I’ve been a superintendent of a smaller school district, and I’m in a larger school district now. And I felt that that expertise, being a new principal, there’s a lot of things that you don’t know, you don’t know.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You just don’t know what you don’t know. And so a friend of mine was being, she was a mentor and I believe still is a mentor. And she’s like, hey, I think you’d be great in this position, you know, this is what we do. And so through her, I was able to become a mentor

Dr. Kate Sievers
through the Illinois Principal Association and have done that. This is my second year and it has been very fulfilling for me. So I hope the people that I’m mentoring are getting just as much out of it as I am,

Dr. Kate Sievers
because again, it is just a way to give back and help those just starting out, just fresh out of the gate. And you don’t, you know, education’s hard and I feel it is becoming harder and harder each year to be an educator. Society just doesn’t have the respect for education that it had before, which makes me sad. And so trying to get some of that respect back and at the same time keeping some really good people in some positions of where they can really impact kids and staff.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And you want to keep those really good people in those positions to bring that and get that respect back to education again.

Sam Demma
When you think of all the questions from principals that you mentor through the Illinois Principal Association, are there any that come up so often among different principals that a principal listening to this might be struggling with themselves? And if so, what are those questions and what are some of the things you typically would share?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’ve only been a mentor the last two years and what’s happened in education as teacher turnover is high right now. And when I was hired in as a teacher 29 years ago, you had, and I’m not exaggerating, you had in a smaller school district, we had at least 30 applicants for a position. And now we’re lucky to get two really highly qualified

Dr. Kate Sievers
applicants for a position in our area, region. And that’s different, you know, regionally it’s different, you know, urban versus rural and we’re considered rural. And so the questions I get mainly recently has been, how do I keep my teachers? How do we keep them to want to stay here, to be at our school? Because sometimes if you’re in a rural area, the urban areas pay a little bit more

Dr. Kate Sievers
and have a little bit more benefits and whatnot to offer. And so how do we keep them there? And I’m gonna go back to what I tell everybody, relationships, everything goes back to, all roads leads back to relationships, whether it’s personal, professional, wherever. If they feel valued and are respected where they

Dr. Kate Sievers
work and want to go there every day, they’re going to think twice about maybe going to another school district or changing professions because I’ve had some teachers who have left. Unfortunately, went to larger corporations because they can work from home, you know, and that society has changed that and what that looks like from many years ago. And so being able to retain our teachers and keep them there because once you get a teacher in the door, you know, you can train them, you know, and it takes a lot with the training and to get them to show the different

Dr. Kate Sievers
curriculums and the platforms that we use. So you want to keep those teachers. And at the same time, though, you want to grow them as professionals. And so if you’re valuing them and you’re respecting them and you’re developing those appropriate relationships with them professionally and helping them grow, why would they wanna leave? So that’s what I have heard over and over and over again.

Dr. Kate Sievers
So we’re hoping to combat that through this relationship building and we’re trying really hard, our best, especially here at Jersey 100 to do that.

Sam Demma
When I visited the school, I felt like the staff were so engaged and involved and welcoming. I had multiple conversations with teachers as well. So whatever the work that you are all doing, I think it’s definitely having an impact

Sam Demma
on how guests feel received in the school building. So keep it up.

Dr. Kate Sievers
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. And it’s just not me. I mean, you have to have a team of people willing to… One person can’t do it. And so, you know, people to build that team of people to say, Hey, we’re committed to, you know, we want the best of the best here at Jersey 100. So what does that look like? How do we do that? And I have a really good team to work with. So I love coming to school and I love working with them. So hopefully that can continue for a while.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you really enjoy serving and supporting along with a team of people. It sounds like that was a similarity when you were coaching in basketball and teaching and now mentoring. Do you think there are some similarities between coaching

Sam Demma
young people and teaching young people? And if so, what are some of those things?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I do. And sometimes coaching and mentoring are one in the same. I don’t know that you can use them to replace one another, but when you’re talking about young kids and you’re talking about young teachers, everybody wants boundaries, okay? And I feel sometimes our society has just kind of left

Dr. Kate Sievers
boundaries off to the wayside. And when I mean boundaries, I’m not talking strict boundaries, but that’s where you earn that respect. And this is what I need you to do as a player. And this is what I need you to do as a teacher.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And as long as they have that relationship with you and they want to perform for you, whether you’re a coach or whether you’re a principal, it comes down to those relationships over and over and over. And I feel that if they continue to want to perform for you whatever position they’re in, whether they’re a coach, whether a player, whether a teacher,

Dr. Kate Sievers
you’re gonna get the best of what you can out of that person. And that’s what you want. That’s what they want. They want to do their best. Nobody wants to do poorly.

Dr. Kate Sievers
They want to do their best. And so trying to pull that best out of them and what that looks like and them seeing the fruition once they do that and show their best and do their best and what that looks like for them, that’s awesome to see that light pop on when that does happen. And the great feeling that they get because you just relish in them feeling good about themselves and what they’ve done.

Sam Demma
And whether it’s mentoring, coaching, or any age, you mentioned that it really all comes back to relationships. When you think about building relationships, let’s say it’s a classroom teacher listening to this conversation and they want to build a better relationship with their students. What do you think are some of the things they could do to build a better relationship with their own students?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I think they just have to get to know them. And I’m going to use you and your friend. You knew your friend like tacos, right? You knew what to cheer them up and he and his wife or partner. And so I feel that if I’m a teacher and I really want to make the most impact and get to know my kids on a relationship level, I really just need to get to know them. I need to know

Dr. Kate Sievers
anything and everything about them that they’re willing to share. And again, on that professional level and those kids that come in with, a lot of our kids are walking in the door with some trauma, Sam, and I know you know that. And how can we help them make their time at school the best possible for them to be there

Dr. Kate Sievers
and to really help and grow them as an individual, not just as a student, I’m talking about as a rounded individual. And then walk out the door with a smile on their face and trying to help them the best we can. But you’re not going to get that unless you really understand who that kid is. Whether you’ve got 10 kids in your class or you’ve got 30 kids in your class.

Dr. Kate Sievers
Does it take time? Does it take effort? Absolutely, it does. And a lot of intentionality. And so through that, I feel that teachers are going to have, they’re going to be able to get as much as they can out of that student and really help that student grow. Again, not just academically, but you know, all in all aspects of their life. Because if you’re making them feel and you’re building them up, not just academically, but in other aspects of their life, they’re going to want to do well and continue to do well, especially when they’re at school or when they’re with you. And so as much as that impact, that relationship impact,

Dr. Kate Sievers
I just don’t know that we could ever put a number on it. I don’t think we can ever put. And I know people have, they’ve done studies on this way, more smart people than me, but it’s just really hard to see unless you’re in that classroom,

Dr. Kate Sievers
how much time and effort it really takes to get to know a child.

Sam Demma
I think about the educators, coaches, caring adults in my life who’ve made a significant impact. And it’s what you’re saying. It’s really the people who got to know me so well on a personal and professional, well more so a professional level, but with some personal details about who I was and what I cared about. And I had a teacher who would teach a lesson and knew the students

Sam Demma
in the class so well that after he finished the lesson, he would point to a couple of us and say, Hey Sam, because you’re passionate about sports, this lesson for you means this. And Olivia, I know you love movies. So for you, the context of this lesson is this. And it was like light bulbs are just going off in kids heads all day long. Um, as a result of that extra step, you know?

Dr. Kate Sievers
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And so for any young teachers coming in, wanting to know how to do that, I think there’s just some great books out there. And I’m not gonna say any or do any plugs off of this at this point in time,

Dr. Kate Sievers
but there are a lot of resources out there for you to really understand kids and trauma and what they’re bringing to your classroom. And I feel as a new teacher and coming into just a different time in our lives, understanding those resources and if kids come up

Dr. Kate Sievers
with a certain trauma, what kind of resources you can help them with and it doesn’t have you know it’s a private conversation between you that you know that student and hey I know this is going on in your life and I can maybe help you with these resources or and just they might make might not take advantage of it but just knowing that you cared enough to help them or offer some help to them goes a long way too.

Dr. Kate Sievers
I feel sometimes we just get too busy and with our, you know, trying to get everything done in our classrooms and whatnot, and we leave that relationship on the side. And I feel that that is just not the best thing for kids.

Sam Demma
You mentioned not giving any plugs, though I will ask, are there any resources or people or things that have been foundational in how you think about education and building relationships? There, I will just say, through our regional office here, in Illinois, we have regional

Dr. Kate Sievers
offices that provide professional development. And you know, it’s speakers like yourself, I’m going to say you’re like yourself, Sam, who come and we’ve listened to and we’ve heard stories and they bring so many ideas to us to say, okay, this is what happened to me, this is my personal story and this is how they helped me. And as educators, we hear that and we’re like, oh, and the light bulb goes on, I can maybe do that for somebody. I feel when we have, when we listen to others and their stories, your personal stories, because a lot of it,

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’m being very honest with you, Sam, are through personal stories. When they share those with us, and they give us real life examples of how somebody helped them or how they were able to get out of a trauma traumatic situation and move on to get through, push through that. That only helps us as educators to give us more tools in our toolbox to say, okay, so this helped Sam Demmer, this helped this, this one. And, and we can say, you know, Henry or whoever, um, this is, this is something that I think would help you, you know, in, in taking those again, having more tools in our toolbox to be able to help those kids

Dr. Kate Sievers
that, um, that do walk in with a little bit of luggage in their backpack. So to say,

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love it. Thank you for sharing and taking the time to speak about your own journey into education, some of the connections to coaching and mentorship, your role with the Illinois Principal Association, talking about some of the challenges with teacher turnover and how the district is trying to address those and the importance of relationships.

Sam Demma
I’m curious, what are you most excited about in education right now as we wrap up the conversation?

Dr. Kate Sievers
With me in education, education just looks a little bit different than what, and I’ll say looking in, you think education looks the same as what it did 50 years ago, 100 years ago. I feel when you walk in our doors, even though we’re still segmented in classrooms, our learning is happening in a way more different structure, at least here at Jersey 100.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You know, we have more hands-on, more STEM classes, more. And I feel that I had a younger brother who loved to work with his hands and mess with motors and do all kinds of, if it was outside, he was outside and didn’t like the workbook, the textbook and all the you know, the regular. And I look at all

Dr. Kate Sievers
of the STEM and the maker spaces and the automotive and the, and the woodworking and the construction that we’re able to offer. And for him, he would have just flourished in that type of environment. And so I feel schools are getting more and more like that. Of course, we have to have our academics, our math,

Dr. Kate Sievers
and our reading, but we’re able then to interweave some of these other types of learning into our educational arena to where these kids come in excited. And I’m looking at some of our high school kids right now who are, I’m going to say,

Dr. Kate Sievers
my trade kids who are going to be your welders and your automotive people and some of your engineers, but they are, they are just flourishing in our, I’ll call it our career technical education wing. And without that, I feel that they, like my younger brother, were like, just like school was hard, I didn that they, like my younger brother,

Dr. Kate Sievers
would like, just like school was hard. I didn’t want to go to school. You know, that’s not something that they enjoyed at all, or he enjoyed at all. And I see these kids coming into school, not missing school and wanting to really, really do well.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so I feel that in education now, especially here at Jersey 100, we’re able to really reach those kids and to get those kids a more foundation. So when they walk out in high school, they know what they want to do by the time they graduate.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so for me here at Jersey 100, I’m like super pumped about that because I will say 98% of my kids, and we’re striving for 100% of our kids, walk out the door at high school knowing what they’re gonna do.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so, and before five or six years ago, that wasn’t the case.

Sam Demma
That’s amazing testimony to the work that everyone’s doing in the system. It’s so great to hear about it. I look forward to continuing to stay in touch and follow the journey. And thank you again, Dr. Kate,

Sam Demma
for taking the time to come on the show here today. It’s been a real pleasure having a conversation with you.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You’re welcome, Sam. Thanks for having me.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Dr. Kate Sievers

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Daniel Klapper — Vice President of Student Services at Western USC

Daniel Klapper — Vice President of Student Services at Western USC
About Daniel Klapper

Daniel Klapper is the USC’s Vice President of Student Services. In this role, he works with all USC-led services to provide the best experience and support to Western Undergraduate Students. 

He is responsible for the oversight of the PurpleCare Trust, Clubs System, Peer Support Centre, Food Support, the USC’s new professional development program, as well as to support the good governance of the University Students’ Council. 

Connect with Daniel Klapper: Email | Instagram | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Western USC

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Daniel Klapper. Daniel serves as the Vice President of Student Services for the University Students Council of Western Ontario, where he oversees a comprehensive network of support systems designed to enhance the Western undergraduate Student Experience. His responsibilities span crucial student resources, including the Purple Care Trust, Club System, Peer Support Center, food support initiatives, while also driving the USC’s new professional development program. Beyond direct service delivery, Daniel plays a key role in maintaining good governance practices within the USC, ensuring the organization remains responsive to student needs.

Sam Demma
Daniel, thank you so much for taking some time during this busy season to come on the podcast.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. Super excited.

Sam Demma
Introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are and how you got into the work you’re doing today with the USC.

Daniel Klapper
Sure, sure. So I guess beyond the nice introduction you had there, obviously my name is Daniel. I’m the Vice President of Student Services. But beyond that, I’m an ex-Western student as well. So I graduated last year. But this year has been super exciting for me because obviously working for the USC has been such an amazing privilege and such a unique experience as well. So super excited to kind of dive into some of that and tell you about a bit of the experiences and some of the programs that we’re working on as well. Speaking of programs, you oversee so many different programs with the USC.

Sam Demma
Tell me about some of them. Um, and any of your, uh, not that you have favorites, but any of the ones that you’re very passionate about. Yeah, definitely. I mean, the student services portfolio is unique because, um, it encapsulates so much.

Daniel Klapper
So whereas other portfolios, they have advocacy initiatives and they cover advocacy kind of broadly. The student services portfolio, um, is a little bit of everything. And I guess for background, for most people who don’t know much about the USC, it hasn’t always been like this.

Daniel Klapper
So the student services role, this is the second year that it’s actually being conducted like this before the USC operated with a vice president of governance and finance. And there were all of these little portfolios that kind of were spread across the organization, either under programming or under some advocacy initiatives. The club system was kind of here and there, a little bit of everywhere. And then they kind of realized, they’re kind of neglecting all of these portfolios because they get overshadowed by the big things like concerts, orientation week, the massive programming that the university puts on. And then also getting overshadowed by like the year over year advocacy initiatives that the USC does. And so what they did was they transitioned the role from a finance role where a student would kind of oversee the budgets. And then we obviously, we have full-time staff who deal with all the accounting. So they moved that and they kind of pooled all of the services and initiatives together and threw them under one portfolio and that becoming the student services portfolio. So that’s kind of how we came to be. Obviously, like you said, we have food support, peer support, the new professional development portfolio, which has been kind of like a majority of what I’ve been working on this year is kind of getting that up and running. That’s a little bit of a passion project of mine but we also have things like Pride USC, grants and recognition which are super important so that that touches on like the scholarships and then the LGBTQ support as well from from the western side but kind of a lot of portfolios and then the REACH program as well, which technically isn’t a service, but touches on that as well. And that one’s near and dear to my heart because I actually got my start in the USC in second year by volunteering for that program.

Daniel Klapper
So kind of a full circle moment is it’s the first thing I started with. And actually when my contract ends this year, it’ll be the last program that I actually hold. So kind of a fun full circle.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about the professional development portfolio that you’ve been spending a lot of time working on.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah. So the professional development portfolio came from, uh, our president currently Emily Klagen. So she, when she was running her, her campaign, uh, she was pretty heavy on increasing the professional development support that undergraduate students have access to. Um. And so when I was hired, we started looking to, how can we make the university experience enjoyable beyond simply hosting concerts and offering services to students? Like, what are they lacking? And what we kind of figured is students need jobs. They need the connections. They need the network that at this point, everyone knows how hard it is right now to get internships and get jobs, and to kind of get that extra experience beyond your education. And the professional development portfolio was the USC solution to that.

Daniel Klapper
So we host events like the peer AI learning sessions, which are essentially students teaching other students from various faculties how to use artificial intelligence to increase their literacy with AI and kind of just overall level the playing field when it comes to the use of artificial intelligence in classrooms. We also have something coming up called the Professional Development Gala, where we get a bunch of professionals from various industries. So we’ve got some lawyers, some consultants, some publishers, doctors, and we get them all in the same room. And we’re essentially extending the USC’s alumni to the undergraduate student body. Because, yeah, that’s one of the nice things that the USC has is they have a really, like extensive, you like alumni network. So there’s hundreds of people who have worked for the USC over the last 40 so years. And they’re all really connected and they always come back and they always participate in events.

Daniel Klapper
But usually it’s just the executives who have access to those individuals, right? Like there’s some really great people. So we wanted to kind of extend that network to students this year and make sure that they have an opportunity to chat with people and see what’s out there. Kind of same that we have this year.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome, man. I think about some of the most meaningful experiences I had in school and it wasn’t so much the lessons learned in the classroom, although those are also very important. It was those extended opportunities where I was able to ask questions. I was very curious about to industry professionals or when people took the time to provide me with unique opportunities that really helped me develop my soft skills. It sounds like the professional development portfolio really does that. I know that REACH also does that for a different subset of students.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about that program and why you’re so passionate about it.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, so the REACH program is similar. I guess you could consider it professional development for grade seven and eight. So it’s been around for a while, actually. So it started in 2004. This is like the history of the REACH program here as a history major. But so started in 2004, and they called it the choose your own adventure game. And so the idea was, you get 250 or 300 grade seven and eight students, and they come onto campus and they do a choose your own adventure, where you pick different classes. And by the end of the weekend, you kind of see where your career is heading based off of the decisions that you made throughout the weekend. Funnily enough, we got or we as in the USC was actually sued because choose your own adventure is a trademark for that book that they made. So they actually, in like the mid 2000s, they were sued for using the name, Choose Your Own Adventure, and they swapped it over to the early outreach program. So that’s kind of how that name came about. The idea is kind of similar, same idea, but we’ve kind of switched it over. So essentially we take 300 students from various grade schools from across the London Middlesex community. We try to pick the schools that are feeder schools into the high schools that have the lowest dropout rates or the highest dropout rates, sorry. And the idea is to bring them on campus. They stay at Ontario Hall, which is one of the nicest residents on campus. They eat there. They have parties in the Wave, which is our restaurant and bar on campus. Obviously everything’s shut down, no alcohol or anything like that, but they have the opportunity to kind of like hang out in the same spaces that undergraduate students do. And they really connect with it. And they have the opportunity to talk to university students. Over 80 volunteers come out and really just have a good time.

Daniel Klapper
And then on top of that, they get to hang out with some professors. They go to mock classes. So they’ll go to anthropology class, and like, dust things off of dinosaur bones or make slime in the chemistry lab. So the opportunities there are kind of endless. But the real goal is that they go into high school the year after. And that weekend long experience really has a profound impact on them. And they leave thinking like, hey, like university is something that I’m capable of doing. It’s something that it’s accessible to me. And it’s not just for students who have 100% in all their classes. And it’s not just for students who come from wealthy families, like there’s opportunity for financial aid.

Daniel Klapper
We teach them how to write a resume so that they can get jobs. Really anything that’s just going to set their mind in the right track so that when they do get to high school, they start thinking about like, how can I improve my grades? How can I improve my extracurriculars?

Daniel Klapper
And like I’m setting a goal for myself that Western is where I want to go. And we’ve had a pretty good, like proven track record. And we have some students now who volunteer for the program who actually attended the program when they were in grade seven and eight and actually went to Western because of the impact that the program had on them. So has a special place in my heart because of great relationships, but also seen how it affects students that young really how much of a positive impact it has on them.

Sam Demma
I always tell people I think the most important gift you can give a young person is belief in themselves. And I think it’s any human being, not just young people, but when you are exposed to that at a much younger age, it can change the course of your entire life. It sounds like that is the impact that the program is having, and I hope it continues long after you transition as well.

Daniel Klapper
And hopefully no one gets sued.

Daniel Klapper
We’ve, we’ve upped the, uh, the parameters for like making sure it’s all, all set in stone and everything we’ve, we’ve gone to the point now, post COVID where we’re running the same program year over year, it just gets better and better. So it’s in a good spot and hopefully it can continue. I’m sure I’ll come back to volunteer even when I’m back in my master’s.

Sam Demma
You work in student services. You support the diverse needs of the entire population across the campus. How do you determine what students need? There’s a lot of schools that have students and they wanna figure out out what do we, what clubs do we start? What, what services do we promote and provide? How have you guys kind of figured out what, what students need on campus.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, it’s actually, I would say that is the most like difficult part of working for a student union is like, you would think it’s so obvious and that students are so straightforward with what they want. But it’s actually much harder to engage with the student population than like at face value what you would think and it’s not as simple as going out or putting a survey out of like, what do you want? Because there’s the saying like, if you build it, they will come but we’ve we’ve learned very, very many times if you build it, they sometimes don’t come and there’s no reason. And so it’s this like continuous effort, honestly, not even on my part, but mostly on our student engagement part. So Shreya, she works full time as the vice president of student engagement. And that’s kind of her job this year is really figuring out like, how do we talk to the students who aren’t part of that bubble, who look at all of our posts, right? We have a pretty good following on Instagram. around 40,000 students, but the student population as a whole is much bigger than that. So how do we get the student who doesn’t want to come to the concert? They don’t want to come to craft nigh.

Daniel Klapper
and they’re not interested in any advocacy initiatives. They just want to go to school and come back? How do we make sure that we’re also servicing those needs, even if they’re not voicing their opinion, right? And that’s been a challenge. I think we’ve done a great job this year, in particular with the UA and EA roles, which is University Affairs and External Affairs. And then as well as our president going out and talking to students, kind of meeting them where they’re at, doing a lot of initiatives in the atrium, which is like the big building that we have here, right in the center, and just kind of, whether it’s doing a kahoot to kind of tell students about what we’re working on, or doing a massive survey with some giveaways, just kind of like making sure we have an informed decision as to what students want. And then the other time, other times it’s kind of just a guess, right? Like we were students ourselves once, so we have a unique perspective as like as to what is required. So the professional development is a perfect example. When we’re planning these events, we’re not necessarily going out and asking students like hey would you come to a gala if we host it? It’s more a personal experience that if I was in second year, if I was in third year and the university invited me to a gala with 30 to 40 professional individuals and they charged five dollars to get in, no chance, like no chance I’m passing that up, right? So like those are the types of things where it’s not always necessary to kind of hear feedback from students but it definitely does help make an informed decision of whether or not the program continues or whether or not the services actually being used. So lots of feedback, but also just personal experience and trial and error, I guess.

Daniel Klapper
You’re so close in age still to a lot of the students and you can put yourself in their shoes and understand some of the challenges they’re going through.

Sam Demma
It sounds like the $5 professional gala night is a massive success. Is it really highly attended by students and something that you guys do every year?

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, so we this is the first one that we’ve done. So it’s happening on March 19th. So we’re tickets are still up for sale. So we’re still pushing that and making sure that every student knows about it. Sometimes, like I said, Instagram can be an awesome way to get the word out, but honestly, sometimes we have to reach out personally.

Daniel Klapper
Like we’ve got 230 plus clubs, a lot of them being business clubs, women in leadership, STEM club. And sometimes we just reach out to them like, hey, we’re hosting this event, we’re thinking of you and we’re designing it.

Daniel Klapper
We’d love for you to come out and that’s sometimes the best way to get people out. With the AI stuff too, we’re reaching out to the people who are interested in that. So when we were hosting our most recent session was in January, we did applications of AI in entrepreneurship and business and we made sure that we involved the Ivy students in the conversation and the BMOS students because they’re kind of the ones who are looking for that type of info. So we’ve done a pretty good job at kind of pushing our events.

Daniel Klapper
And honestly, we have a full time team who works on promotions, all the graphics, all the social media as well. And they’re absolutely killers at what they do. So I can’t take any credit for it because I’m not great with the whole social media thing. it for it because I’m not great with the whole social media thing, but it’s definitely, definitely an art of knowing when to post, when not to post, when to repost, and they’ve got it down to a T, so they do a pretty good job. When you think of events that the USC hosts that are classics, like people love them, and maybe you’ve heard from other people on the team that we’ve done these for the past 12 years and it’s always a hit. Are there any ideas that another school team listening to this could think about replicating on their campuses? I know there’s a lot of educators also listening that want to engage their students in grade 12 and grade 11 and they might be able to borrow some ideas. Yeah, absolutely.

Daniel Klapper
I mean, one of the things that’s nice about this job is we’ve had the opportunity to meet a lot of student councils from across Canada. So we attended conference in British Columbia called SUDS hosted by the AMS over at UBC. And it was fantastic. We got to talk to hundreds of other student leaders and really get to hear about what are they working on? How does their club system work? How do you guys host events? Really at the end of the day, it comes down to money. And I think that’s an issue that everyone faces is things are expensive. One thing that we’ve noticed this year is beyond the classic, like if you were to ask a university student at Western, what’s the classic event at the USC hosts that everyone’s gonna go to? It’s always the concerts. So we’ve set a pretty big name for ourself by bringing some pretty big artists like Sway Lee, Quavo, all these really great, Josh Ross, another one country artist. But beyond that, I think the smaller programming, which is what Sarah Fullerton, our vice president of programming, has done a really great job of this year, is finding the students who don’t wanna come to the concerts and hosting things like craft night. We’ve done paint and sip where we host wine nights in the wave and you get to come out. 20 bucks gets you two glasses of wine and a canvas and paint all set up, ready to go.

Daniel Klapper
Bingo was huge. We hosted bingo a couple of times. Sells out instantly. Battle of the bands has been really cool. I actually just was sitting in Sarah’s office right before this watching rehear- or like audition tapes of students who want to show off their talent, they want to show off the band that they have, and those are cheap events because we don’t have to pay anyone to do that, but it gives students an opportunity to come out and really engage with each other, sit in the smoke, grab a drink, grab some food, and just listen to other student artists. I think those have been super successful this year. And I think probably something that the USC will continue to do. Another thing that we brought back is, not every school has this, but it’s not hard to do. But we have like an auditorium that can be turned into a movie theater. And post COVID, it kind of was abandoned.

Daniel Klapper
We hadn’t used it in a while. So one of the initiatives that Emily proposed in her platform was movie nights. So we’ve been doing like Tuesday movies, free to come. You’d basically just show up, first come, first serve. We’ve been buying the rights to like old movies.

Daniel Klapper
So Halloween, we went and watched The Shining, they had some horror movies, and then Christmas movies, and then now they’re doing classics. So you can go on a Tuesday night, first 25 people to show up get free popcorn. So those are all things that we don’t have to pay much for. But we see awesome engagement from the students. And it might not be your 4000 person concert, but you compound those small events over and over again across various areas of interest on campus. And by the end of the year, you have a student body that’s really gotten to experience something awesome with their peers.

Sam Demma
One of my friends is obsessed with marketing and he says, someone has to interact with your stuff for seven hours before they make a decision to feel like they’re a part of your products and services and a part of your mission and your movement. And I think about it from the same perspective of students on a campus.

Sam Demma
Even if they just attended the concert, maybe it’s still not enough for them to really feel like they’re involved. They got to have these other touch points throughout the year, which are all these other amazing opportunities for them to build more relationships, meet new people, steal some popcorn and watch some movies.

Sam Demma
I’m curious when you think about your own professional development in this role and in other roles you’ve been in, are there any resources or people or mentors that have had a really monumental impact on you? And if so, like what were those resources or people and what did they do for you?

Daniel Klapper
Yeah. So, I mean, I’ve had a pretty unique university experience that I think most people don’t typically have in the sense that I probably did more work for free extracurricular wise than I did school and so I spent all of my free time whether it was with the Pre-law society participating in mooting competitions or mock trials, or last year I was on the social science student council running their finances. And I found that to be the best way for me to kind of interact with people because I came in second year after a year of COVID online, right?

Daniel Klapper
So I showed up to the university with my three closest best friends. We lived in an apartment together and our second year we did nothing. We went to class, we came home, we watched movies, we made food and repeat. We didn’t know that the USC existed, we didn’t know who our president was and we didn’t know that there were clubs available to us. And then in my third year I started to think and I was like, you know what, like it’s about time I get out there and start testing out the stuff that’s available to me.

Daniel Klapper
So I looked into the club system really. And I looked at, at the time I wanted to be a lawyer, and now I’ve kind of pivoted more to the business side. But at the time I looked at the pre-law society and was like, oh years older, but they’re running all these awesome initiatives. And I looked at the vice president of finance for a club or the president of a club, and to me, they were like the highest of high that you could get at university. And I looked at them and thought, like, I wanna be one of them one day. I wanna be a president of a club.

Daniel Klapper
I wanna help organize the budget for the pre-law society or the mooting society. And so I just started showing up. And when I started showing up, I noticed that I call it like the snowball effect. But before I knew it, I was going from one club and then I was on an executive team. And one guy was on an executive team for another thing. And he’s like, hey, come out to our one networking event. And next thing you know know you end up meeting like this spider web of people who are all connected on campus. And in the end it resulted in me having this job because by the time two years had passed I went from not knowing that the USC existed and thinking that being a part of a club was untouchable, something that only the highest of high people could achieve to overseeing the entire club system in two years. And so I always think about the people that I met along the way who kind of introduced me. So whether it was the social science president from two years ago, Bianca, or like looking at the USC president that time, which was Ethan Gardner and thinking like, hey, these people are pretty accomplished and they kind of, like just listening to them talk, even though I didn’t really have personal relationships with them, just like seeing that they were able to do it

Daniel Klapper
and that they also came from like a social science background, really inspired me to kind of get involved. Although my friends never kind of came with me, so my roommates never got involved on campus. They stuck to their studies.

Daniel Klapper
Mind you, they’re engineers, software engineers, and medical science students. So I’m sure their classes were a lot harder than the history student who had a bit more free time on his hand. But yeah, all those club presidents and then the USC execs really inspired me to kind of get involved and kind of make a name for myself on campus. And then eventually the job opened up for this and put my name forward and it worked out well so far.

Sam Demma
It sounds like it has, and I’m sure it will continue to. I’m so grateful that you took some time to come on the show, share some of your lessons learned in education and the work you’re doing, share some ideas around supporting students. I hope that the rest of the academic year goes really well. I’ll be rooting you on from the sideline. Good luck at the golf tournament we’ll touch base again soon.

Daniel Klapper
Awesome. Thank you. Pray for good weather.

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Jacqueline Butler — Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School

Jacqueline Butler — Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School
About Jacqueline Butler

Meet Jacqueline Butler—an educator, leader, and lifelong learner who’s passionate about redefining what school can be. As the Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School in Richmond Hill, Canada, Jacqueline has spent the past 22 years fostering a learning environment that connects students with their passions, their well-being, and the world around them.

Her journey has taken her from the science lab to the gymnasium, always with a focus on creating meaningful, human-centred learning experiences. Right now, she’s working on integrating student life with academics, helping students develop the skills and mindsets they need to be changemakers in an ever-evolving world. She believes that in a world where humans are increasingly falling out of relationship with each other and the natural world, school needs to be a place that is based in community, where students discover, connect, grow, and take risks—without fear of judgment.

When she’s not thinking about the future of education, you can find Jacqueline hiking, skiing, or taking in a peaceful waterfront view with her husband, son and daughter. A former Queen’s University basketball player, she still finds joy in coaching, with a focus on teamwork, and inspiring young athletes to commit to something bigger than themselves.

Connect with Jacqueline Butler: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Holy Trinity School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Jacqueline Butler. As deputy head of student life and well being at Holy Trinity School in Richmond Hill, Jacqueline has dedicated 22 years to reimagining education through a human centered lens. Her journey from science teacher to educational leader reflects her commitment to creating learning environments where students can discover their passions, develop as change makers, and build meaningful connections with their community and the natural world.

Sam Demma
A former Queens University basketball player turned coach, and she’s still got moves y’all, Jacqueline brings her passion for teamwork and personal growth to every aspect of her work while balancing her professional dedication with family, time spent hiking, skiing, and enjoying waterfront views with her husband and children. Jacqueline, it is a privilege and pleasure to have you on the show here today. Thank you so much for being here.

Jacqueline Butler
Thank you for having me. I was listening to some past episodes and you keep very good company, so I’m very honored to have been asked and to be here, spend time with you, Sam.

Sam Demma
I can’t wait to dive in. Can you please start by introducing yourself and just sharing a little bit about why you got into education?

Jacqueline Butler
So, so yeah, so I have been, um, a for, that’s been my whole career. And I graduated from university and took an adventure overseas to London and England to do some teaching over there, and then made my way back over to HTS and I’ve been here ever since.

Jacqueline Butler
So a really, really long time, had an early adventure, but I know a lot of people, you know, move around in their career, but I have found a place that I feel like I really belong and that I love so much. And so that’s me and kind of my little story, but I got into teaching really because I wasn’t ready to grow up yet. That’s how it started actually. And that I, all the things that I loved doing, in my youth, I felt like I could continue to do those things as an educator, and a sort of positive role model for for other young people. So, you know, I come to work every day, and I still get to sing out loud in chapel. I still get to play in the gym, whether I’m teaching or coaching. I still get to go on trips. I still get to do all of the things that I used to love to do as a kid, except just in a different role as the adult in the room now. So that’s how I got started in education.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about what brought you overseas at the start of your career.

Jacqueline Butler
So I was a student obviously in Teachers College and there were schools coming over to Queens to do some interviews. They’re doing their recruiting and I knew I was going to be in the workforce coming up really soon. And so I thought I better get some practice. So I signed up for these interviews because I’d never had a professional interview yet. And I thought this would be a great idea. So I went and sat down

Jacqueline Butler
and had some really amazing conversations with some other educators from around the world. And I never once considered that, you know a job offer would be on the table, but sure enough, it was. And then all of a sudden it was just, why not? So I really never had a plan to do it, but when the opportunity was presented to me, I didn’t have a reason not to do it. So off I went.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Some of my favorite memories are from my own childhood experience of traveling to Italy for six months. And I think that earlier in any career, it’s such a valuable experience to gather different perspectives from different communities around the globe. It helps shift our perspectives and have more of a holistic view on things. You’ve been in education now, you know, 22 years.

Sam Demma
How has your vision of what school can be? How has that evolved? Oh, yeah, how’s that evolved over the years?

Jacqueline Butler
Well, it’s interesting, I’ve been in the game a little bit longer than that, actually, not that I want to date myself, but it’s just I’ve been at HTS for 22 years. But I think that when I was younger, I felt very much like I needed to stick to the script, right? Like I was very much focused on the curriculum standards and ticking the boxes and getting done what I needed to get done. And as I’ve grown and matured and become more in tune with what my students need or the students need. I’ve been able to focus on them more as people and individuals and young growing minds and souls and spirits to be able to actually meet them where they are as opposed to like having a set goal in mind. So for me, that has been the major shift in terms of, yes, just maybe taking the curriculum standards a little more seriously when you were younger and growing into a more holistic educator that’s really, really concerned with the whole child, which can take you down many different paths, oftentimes a different path, many different times in the same day. And being the whole child being the center of what education is and what it can be, as opposed to a set path.

Sam Demma
How do you build a connection with a student to the point where you really truly understand their needs? Sometimes it feels like certain educators connect really well with their students and others want to, but struggle to do so. What do you think some of the principles are to build those connections?

Jacqueline Butler
I think that there’s probably many different answers to that question because there’s, you know, many different personalities, many different connection points for different students and the other adults in the room. But for myself personally, I always connect back to the why. Like, you know, why am I in this? Why am I doing this? And the answer is always the same. The answer is always I’m doing this for them. So if that’s in fact the case, then I can’t really get too far down the road unless I know them. So it’s about the relationship building. It’s about the questions that you’re asking.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s about caring enough to know what matters, what matters to each individual person, understanding their goals, understanding their challenges. And the really, really, really important piece, I think, is finding a way to get each student to know themself first. And taking that coaching stance in terms of helping each individual learn who they are,

Jacqueline Butler
what makes them tick, not what they wanna be when they grow up, but what they want to spend their life doing.

Sam Demma
It makes me think of some educators I’ve had that really got to know me on a personal level and understand what I was passionate about outside of their classrooms, to the point where they would teach a lesson and at the end of the lesson say,

Sam Demma
Sam, for you, this means X, And Jacqueline, for you and your passions, this lesson means X. And it just felt so personalized, despite the fact that there was another 30 students in the class. And I’ll never really forget those specific moments.

Sam Demma
Sometimes young people put a lot of pressure on themselves with so many different expectations and goals and dreams and things going on in the world. How do you think we balance that healthy ambition in a student with the challenge of them putting so much pressure on themselves these days?

Jacqueline Butler
There is a lot of pressure. It might be a cop-out, but my answer is a little bit the same. It’s just in the sense that until you really know and understand yourself, you could be tempted to be trying to do a whole bunch of different things for different people or different things for different outcomes that don’t necessarily connect with your own personal passions and your own personal you know desires and on top of that if you don’t really know yourself yet it’s really hard to know where you want to go. So in that in that sense I think it’s it’s just super important that

Jacqueline Butler
students are staying true to themselves, that they’re doing the hard work, the self-reflection, the self-awareness, they’re focused on what it means to be a good human, a good citizen of the world, and then you layer in, you know, your interests and your passions and maybe a way to make money somehow in there along the way. But staying true to yourself, I think is the key to that because then you can sort of cut the noise out, right?

Jacqueline Butler
And not have to feel like you have to be everything to everybody at the same time.

Sam Demma
One of the things you’re helping students be at HTS is change makers. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it means to be a change maker and how we foster those characteristics and skills in, in students?

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah, I think, um, in one context, a changemaker connects directly with the word impact. And if you’re able to make an impact, and that impact can be at the local level, you know, maybe in your own class, or your own school, or you can extend that impact out to the community, you can go further, and, you know, into a different country or whatever the case may be. But I think to be a changemaker means that you’ve identified an issue,

Jacqueline Butler
that you’ve learned and understood the issue, that you’ve created empathy for the people that are being affected by the issue. And then you have dedicated your time, effort and energy to find out what the need actually is not what you think the need is, but but what the need actually is. And then you put a plan in place to make a change or make a difference.

Jacqueline Butler
So I think finding opportunities and experiences that give students the skills to be able to take those steps is what it means to be a changemaker because it can be in any field, in any place. There’s no limit to what it means to be a changemaker.

Sam Demma
One of the things I noticed at HTS, every student says hello, waves, smile on their face, looking for opportunities to help each other, eat lunch with each other. Tell me more about how the school staff is intentional about building that culture of inclusion and belonging and kindness and respect and how another school may borrow some of those ideas to try and build

Jacqueline Butler
that culture within their community. So I feel like we have a really strong community at HTS and I at the same time, I’m comfortable saying that we’re on a journey and we have some growth to do in that area as well. I think we do place a lot of value on the concept of belonging. I think we we put the right vocabulary in place and we create opportunities to come together in community, which obviously fosters those relationships. And this may be a little off topic, but I think one of the biggest challenges

Jacqueline Butler
that everybody’s facing right now is that people are falling out of relationship with themselves, they’re falling out of relationship with other people and they’re falling out of relationship with the earth. And there’s a lot happening out there in the world that makes it easy for that to happen. And so I think our jobs in a school like HTS where we really do value that community and those connections and those relationships is that you have to be very intentional. Now, more I think than ever before in teaching those skills, like there’s skills connected to it. And I think, you know, for a long time, you kind of gloss over that these

Jacqueline Butler
things are happening and people are showing the signs and symptoms of belongingness and togetherness. But if we don’t focus on being intentional in terms of what we talk about, how we talk, bringing people such as yourself into our community to speak about what it means to show up in a relationship and be a positive member of a relationship, then I think we miss opportunities to really like instill those values and skills.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about the falling out of relationship with the world, the natural world. I would love to dive into that for a moment.

Jacqueline Butler
Oh man, I wish I had the answer, like, you know, this is an area for myself that, you know, causes me a little bit of internal discomfort or stress. So I think in my in my learnings and readings, as they call it the the meta crisis,

Jacqueline Butler
right, the breakdown of the interconnectedness of global systems, you know, with technology, science, information, the environment, economics, psychology, culture, politics, all these things. It’s very complicated, like it’s beyond my sort of scope of obviously fully understanding, but I can tell you that I can definitely feel it.

Jacqueline Butler
So I mean, some professional communities that I’m a part of, finding pockets of people who notice this falling out of relationship, who are open to talk about it, and who feel strongly about doing something about it, I think that’s kind of where I find a little bit of inner peace around it. But it is a major challenge that our young people have to confront, come face to face with, because, yeah, things are changing, things are different. And again, that’s why the role of us as educators is so critical.

Jacqueline Butler
Because what are we doing? What skills are we instilling? What things are we teaching and talking about that will prepare young people to be able to deal with, you know, these changes, the potential chaos, collapse, whatever you want to call it. So like, we have a really, really big, important role to play in all of this. And so, you know, I think specifically at HTS, we are really working hard to

Jacqueline Butler
potentially disrupt the way education looks and the way that we interact with our students, moving towards more of a mentorship model with our students so that they have that close relationship and we’re building in the skills in a set kind of plan, a set plan that meets the students where they are and gives them the skills that they need to be able to meet these challenges in the future.

Sam Demma
Like skill-based learning versus subject-based learning.

Jacqueline Butler
Yes, or learning the skills through a subject and being more interdisciplinary and having learning experiences with people that are not all the same age as you, you know, that are not all talking about the same subject at the same time, but really having opportunities

Jacqueline Butler
with internships and capstones and all of the different projects and programs that we’re exploring here at HDS, but to create a more like holistic, human-centered version of education that breaks down the silos and creates learning opportunities that are more authentic to us as a human being. Again, we

Jacqueline Butler
kind of school… It’s not natural in the sense of if you think of experiences where you’ve had your most authentic learning, you probably weren’t, everybody that you were with wasn’t the same age as you talking about the exact same topic as you in a room. It probably didn’t feel like that. So, how can we recreate learning opportunities that really feel more authentic to what it means to have positive learning out in the

Jacqueline Butler
world.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah.

Sam Demma
What other things would you re-imagine in a school, you know, if you could disrupt education as a whole? Are there other things that you think would be places you’d start? Yeah, I’m curious what other things you think should, could be disrupted in the next couple of years and kind of need to be in some ways.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah. Again, it’s a, it’s who can predict it, right? Like who can predict exactly what’s going to happen. But, um, you know, we know that technology is a game changer. We know that we can use it for good and we can use it for bad. But I think we have to separate ourselves from the concept of the four walls, right, of a building that if the pandemic taught us anything, it’s able to send students out into the world to do their internships to do their projects and, you know, be able to get their credits while doing other things at the same time. these constructs that we think must be true in order to, I’m using air quotes here, I know we’re an audio only, but to do school.

Jacqueline Butler
So yeah, that we need to kind of just look beyond what we’ve come to expect or accept as what school is.

Sam Demma
When you think of your own educational experience, can you identify a few mentors or caring adults that had a big impact on you? And if so, what did those specific individuals do for you that made all the difference?

Jacqueline Butler
So therein lies the lesson, right? So here I am talking about how, you know, the constructs of school maybe don’t serve us as human beings, but at the end of the day, I have had amazing experiences in school, just the way that it is now. And the interesting thing is because of the relationships. So that will never change, right?

Jacqueline Butler
You mentioned it as well. The power of the relationships with you that you have with other people is like the number one indicator of happiness.

Jacqueline Butler
Right?

Jacqueline Butler
The more positive relationships you have in your life, the happier you’re going to be. Even when there’s crap. You know what I mean? Like even when things are rough, if you have positive relationships and the same is true with school,

Jacqueline Butler
like if you have those positive relationships around you, you can still accomplish all these wonderful things. So, for me personally, I had coaches in high school, I had coaches in high school, I had coaches in university. The difference for me was that it was about me. Like they wanted to know what my goals were.

Jacqueline Butler
What do you want to accomplish? What matters to you? What’s challenging you these days? How can I be helpful? So to me, again, just having that personalized connection with somebody who has your best interest at heart

Jacqueline Butler
is a difference maker in terms of how you’re gonna be successful. So if you know that somebody is caring about you, if you know if somebody knows what your goals are and where you wanna be and is there to support you and guide you, you have that person that you can go to

Jacqueline Butler
that you can ask the questions. I think that’s what makes the big difference, yeah.

Sam Demma
You mentioned coaches and I know that athletics have played a large part of your entire life. How has your background in athletics and coaching influenced your approach to educational leadership and student development?

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah, it’s really about the people working towards a common goal.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah. It’s about the people working towards a common goal.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s about putting others ahead of self. It’s about, you know, you have to practice as hard as you want to play, right? So, you know, what do you, what do you, right? What are you doing when you’re not in the big game to enable you to deserve to win the big game is really important.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s a little off topic, but I saw something recently that I really loved and it’s so simple. The person’s name is Dr. Becky. Now, I’m sure she has a last name, but it wasn’t shared. She’s from Duke.

Jacqueline Butler
She’s from Duke. And her concept of the difference or the space between not knowing something and knowing something, right? Being pure frustration, right? The difference between when you don’t know something

Jacqueline Butler
and you do something is filled with frustration. It’s uncomfortable, it’s hard. And then you get to the point of where you know it and you have this huge sense of accomplishment. So it’s the same with sport, right? You’re not doing well and then you are doing well.

Jacqueline Butler
What happened in between? That’s the magic, right? And the skill that we need to put in place, whether it be athletics or education, is this concept that she calls frustration tolerance. And I thought, oh my goodness, like that is so simple, yet so amazing. So if we can, you know, help young people or old people, any, any to stay to the course through the frustration. The more that we can practice frustration tolerance, the more successful we will be

Jacqueline Butler
in terms of reaching our goals and getting to where we want to be when the going gets tough. So I think whether you’re talking about athletics, whether you’re talking about, you know, academics or education, how can you stay the course? How can you stick with something when you know it’s hard? Some people call it resilience, some people call it grit,

Jacqueline Butler
but the real skill of it is how do you live in that uncomfortable space between not knowing something and knowing something and have the skill to be tolerant through frustration?

Sam Demma
I think it’s such a cool way to look at growth. One of my friends always said, Sam, I hope you find something to struggle well on. It made me think of that. Life is about choosing things worth struggling for. And then it’s how much can we struggle? How frustrated can we, how much can we tolerate before we make a decision to try something else or keep moving forward? So I love that idea. And Dr. Becky from Duke, last name that we don’t know, we appreciate you.

Jacqueline Butler
We appreciate you. I loved it.

Sam Demma
This has been such a lovely conversation about what it means to build a relationship with a young person. Some of your insights that you’ve pulled from athletics and coaching and how, you know, how has you like looking through a lens in education, the importance of building community and some of the disruptions that may happen in education in the future.

Sam Demma
And that relationships are still at the center of all the work that we do in a school building and how important those are. I really appreciate your time and the work that you’re doing at HTS. I hope it continues for a very long time. Keep up the amazing work. You’re helping lots of young people and I look forward to crossing paths again soon.

Jacqueline Butler
Thank you, Sam. It’s been a pleasure.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jacqueline Butler

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Robert Audet — Ottawa Campus Director at Lambton College

Robert Audet — Ottawa Campus Director at Lambton College
About Robert Audet

Robert Audet is an innovative leader in the educational sector with over three decades of experience. His entrepreneurial spirit has been a driving force behind his commitment to enhancing student services and educational opportunities. Robert’s most notable achievement is spearheading the establishment of an International Campus for Lambton College in partnership with Saint-Paul University in Ottawa, a project that reflects his dedication to expanding access to education.

Throughout his career, Robert has demonstrated a unique ability to build sustainable business models that serve students effectively. He began his journey by launching the first bookstore at Collège Boréal as a multi-stakeholder co-operative, successfully integrating various student services such as a cafeteria and temporary employment agency. His work with Desjardins and Laurentian University further underscored his commitment to fostering cooperative development and supporting individuals in their entrepreneurial pursuits.

At Cambrian College, Robert had the privilege of bringing together six areas of student life and services under one umbrella. This experience deepened his understanding of Indigenous culture and values as he collaborated with the Wabnode team. The knowledge he gained is something he is eager to bring forward in his current role, working with the Indigenous Centre at Saint-Paul University.

Robert is a firm believer in nurturing talent and guiding individuals along their unique paths to success. He emphasizes the importance of supporting both students and employees, recognizing that everyone has their own journey. By focusing on individual strengths and providing tailored support, Robert ensures that each person can thrive in their educational and professional endeavors. His collaborative approach and commitment to stakeholder engagement create an environment where innovation and growth flourish, ultimately leading to a more enriching educational experience for all.

Connect with Robert Audet: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Lambton College
Saint-Paul University
Collège Boréal
Laurentian University
Cambrian College,

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam, and today we are joined by a special guest, Robert Audet. Robert is an innovative leader who has dedicated over three decades to transforming the education sector. His entrepreneurial spirit has consistently driven improvements in student services and educational opportunities throughout his career. Most notably, Robert spearheaded the establishment of Lampton College’s international campus in partnership with St. Paul University in Ottawa, demonstrating a commitment to expanding access to quality education. He also spent a lot of time this weekend shoveling snow. Robert, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast here today.

Robert Audet
Good morning, Sam. It’s my pleasure. I was looking forward to this chat and leaving the snow behind. Please take a moment to introduce yourself and explain what got you interested and involved in education. You kind of covered a little bit of what I’ve been doing. I guess I got hooked into education back in the 90s where I was working for a financial cooperative and then I got an opportunity to work for Laurentian University in a special project to help people on social assistance create their business plan, teach them some courses, some life skills that they needed to start a business and actually help them start their business. And so it was a very small team. So I got to teach courses. I got to bring in guests with special knowledge for our students and actually see them through the incorporation of worker co-ops and actually see them start their own businesses. And that got me hooked because the feeling of seeing them progress and getting their independence and just doing so well, that was enough for me. So when the French college in Sudbury opened up and opened up their first campus, Collège Boreal, I had the opportunity to go there and start a multi-stakeholder cooperative to run a lot of their student services. So I jumped on that opportunity real quick, started their cafeteria, their bookstore, their pub, their food services for the daycare center, et cetera, et cetera. So it was so overwhelming at the time, but at the same time, so challenging, so it just hooked me right in. And I’ve been mostly in the educational sector or there for a couple of years for most of my career after that.

Sam Demma
When you were helping with the student run businesses, would you consider your personality more like Robert or Kevin O’Leary?

Robert Audet
Not Kevin. I definitely always, I mean, especially, you know, that first initial project was done as a multi-stakeholder co-op, which was the first in Ontario. We were breaking ground. I had to make sure we had partners from the student body. First of all, I had nine students on my board of directors. I had three people from the college. It started with people, high-profile vice presidents in the college. And then I went out into the community to make sure to get some partners in there as well. So, you know, you try to get the expertise around the table. So, you know, you try to get an accountant at the table, you try to get a lawyer at the table. Little ways of saving money when you need some advice from your friends in the community, but it was such a collaborative approach, you know, creating it as a multi-stake cooperative, multi-stakeholder cooperative, that, you know, it was really about building all those relationships more than anything else.

Sam Demma
I think that’s the heart of education, building relationships with stakeholders, with community partners, with the students we’re aiming to serve and support. And you’ve been doing it for over three decades in education. I’m curious over the 30 years, like what fundamental changes have you observed in students’ needs and expectations? Maybe first when you started, what’s different about education today than it was then?

Robert Audet
I mean, I think what’s different is that we have a lot more diversity on any of the campuses right now. And there’s a lot of changes happening to international students coming to Canada for the last little while, let’s say since January. But so that’s different in the sense that, you know, some of the needs of the students could be different adapting to a new country, et cetera. But at the end of the day, it hasn’t really changed. If you really, if you really go down to what’s important when you’re dealing with students over there, like, like you mentioned three decades, I feel old now. No, it’s experience, it’s wisdom. But if you think about it, the reason I say it hasn’t changed is you have to take each student for who they are and try to bring them to the next level. And every student has their own journey. Yeah, they have a common thread of being in a certain program together or they have a common thread of coming from a certain area or, you know, they’re varsity players or whatever, whatever brings them to your campus. That’s just the start. Now you gotta, you gotta build trust with that student. You gotta make sure that they understand that they have someone on campus that they can go to if they meet any barriers or struggle with anything. And once that is built, then you can actually help them, well, actually to be able to help them to get to the level they need to be, you need to understand them. So too often people will say, we’re just here to lecture them. They have to figure it out their own way. But once you understand, and then I have the luxury of having a smaller campus here in Ottawa because we’ve just started a year ago, but the beauty of that is that you can actually meet your students. You can actually have some conversations, see what they’re struggling with, and make sure that they’re connecting with someone on the team. And that hasn’t changed, whether I was working for 20 years in student services at Cameron College or here at Lambton College in Ottawa, that has not changed. You have students, like I’ve met some students over the years, so many great relationships, you know, and I’ve learned probably more from them than they’ve learned from me just because they were growing through at times easy stuff, but at times very difficult things. And the fact that they trusted you to be there along with them to get them through that, I probably gave more to my worth of life and appreciation for life than anything else. And so I’ve worked with students at all levels, whether it was just to try and pass a course so that they can get to the next level, or whether it was to help them fit in to the college system because they had no friends, or whether it was to become one of the provincial leaders influencing where education is going.

And all of those were just as important as the next one because that’s where they were and that’s where they need to be. And then you look back and I guess I get to look back because it’s been 30 years. You look back at how well some of those students are doing. It’s just so much, it’s so rewarding. It’s just, that’s all I can say, very rewarding.

Sam Demma
That’s such a key idea that the external changes, the environment may change, the technology may change, the technology may change, the subjects we focus on may change, but the human being is the human being. We have similar human needs, whether it was 30 years ago or now, and making people feel like they have a person on campus who can support them, building trust, building the relationship, those things haven’t changed. One of my favorite speakers and authors is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, and he’s passed away now. In one of his lectures, he would always tell a story of a company that hired him to come and deliver a speech at their company to talk about the future of their industry, because they thought he had some great insights on it. And he said, he went and delivered a speech and he said, folks, I can confidently tell you that the industry is gonna be just like it’s always been. Unless you change, unless you change. And that made me think of what you just shared now about the fundamentals of building connections with young people. And that makes me curious when it comes to supporting young people and building that trust, what things can educators do to ensure that that trust gets built and they do feel supported and, and encouraged.

Robert Audet
It comes down to listening and listening to actually absorb what they’re going through, not just listen to pretend you’re listening. It’s really that simple. It’s making connections with people. And sometimes it’s harder. The bigger your campus is, like we had, my last campus, we had 6,000 students. I can’t say I knew every student. It’s just not possible, right? But the team that I led, though, we made sure to stay open to any student that would. So we wouldn’t say, oh, you know, if a student comes to me and it’s not my area, but they’re comfortable talking to me, we wouldn’t say just turn them away. We would make sure to bring them, actually walk them to the service they need, make the connection with them. And if they still felt more comfortable coming by my way first, my door was open, right? So it’s really about just listening and making that connection because the needs will vary drastically from each student.

Sam Demma
I think that listening is difficult in a world where there’s a distraction everywhere we look, whether it’s our phone buzzing, another conversation, an email popping on our computer screen. Listening sounds simple, but it’s sometimes very difficult to do. So I appreciate that reminder and I think it’s a timely one. When you started the role, I’m assuming someone didn’t pull you aside and say, Robert, it is your responsibility to build a partnership with St. Paul University. Can you talk about how that partnership was built and the value it’s provided to both campuses today?

Robert Audet
That’s a great question actually. And no, that’s not how that went down. The relationship was already started when I was hired on to come and start the campus, I guess, and manage the campus. They even had hired a few employees. And we’re a very small team right now in Ottawa, to come and start the campus, I guess, and manage the campus. The AIA even had hired a few employees, and we’re a very small team right now in Ottawa, seven plus our faculty. But it is a fantastic partnership. We’ve been growing the common areas, we’ve been growing how do we help each other in doing wellness activities, how we collaborate on different things, how we potentially work on research projects together, et cetera. But the idea was to develop a public to public institution partnership so that we can offer great programs and have the resources we needed in Ottawa to quickly be able to welcome new students. So they had room in their residence, for example. So we negotiated some rooms in their residence. So when students showed up, if they didn’t wanna stay on campus, that was fine. We would help them with housing as well, but they would have an opportunity to go there. So everything’s nice and close until they get used to our snow, our mountain of snow, since our first term was in January. But last year was nice.

Robert Audet
It was an easy winter. But you know, that’s just an example. We’ve collaborated at so many levels and having, being in this historical building here in Ottawa, I mean, I won’t be able to quote you on what year it was built, but I’m pretty sure it was in the 1800s. And it’s slowly being, you know, redone and modernized here and there, but while keeping its charm, right. And so every time I get visitors from our Sarnia campus, which has been there since 1966, they go, I can’t believe the atmosphere here. I want to move to Ottawa just to work in that building. And I go, yeah, I agree. It’s small enough that, you know, it’s a friendly atmosphere with the three partners, actually, Collège Boreal is on campus as well. And we’re building that relationship and we’re having a blast. We’re doing an EDI event in March coming up. And it’s fun because, you know, I had to take a step back when I was approached with the idea, would you apply for this job? Because my wife had just accepted a job here in Ottawa. And I’m like, yes, I should, and I will look into it. But what’s interesting is I had to take a deep look inside myself and go, I’ve done a lot of startups.

Robert Audet
Like even when I went to Cambrian College, it was a new startup, was a new student’s life center. Then I took on, I kept growing the department, right? It became six departments in one. And it was just, for me, it’s all about startups and making those relationships. So I was like, do I have another startup in me? That was the question. And I was like, yes, I do have another startup in me. I think I go to Ottawa and I have some fun. I meet some new people and I’ve been meeting some interesting, our faculty that we’re recruiting, industry experts, we’re having a blast with that. Like developing the relationship with St. Paul, like, you know, going to skate on the canal, uh, you know, building those relationships just to be able to have those conversations and build those relationships. Uh, Ottawa is just fantastic to be in. I I’m going to enjoy it until I, uh, until I retire here in Ottawa and then, and then I’ll go back home, but I have to visit Ottawa now that I know it.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you might have another startup in you after you leave this role. Maybe it’s something related to a business that you’d like to start after you finish. I don’t know, but I get the sense that maybe you will continue doing something.

Robert Audet
It’s funny you say that because I have, I was talking with one of the researchers from the university the other day and he goes when you do retire, you know You have a very good skill set on organizing people and getting stuff done So he says it’d be a shame for you just to put that to rest and I’m like, I’ll have to give it some thought I was thinking retirement man. I’m going cycling. I’m going kayaking But but time will tell right

Sam Demma
When it comes to entrepreneurship, I think there are so many skills that are so important for educators and students to carry forward. It sounds like you’ve surrounded yourself in the startup world and in the entrepreneurship world for a very long time, whether it was helping students start their businesses or literally building and starting departments on campuses. What are a few of the entrepreneurial traits that you think are important for educators and students to live out and carry forward each day?

Robert Audet
This almost sounds like one of my, it’s a different question, but I love the question, but I’ll spin it back a little bit. I’ll spin it back to a question I got when I was doing the interview for this position. I was asked, what are your number three traits that you’re looking for in an employee? And I remember saying, initiative, initiative, and initiative. And they’re all going, well, that’s one. I’m like, yes yes now let me explain right so so initiative is you know if you know something needs to get done get it done or find the right people to get it done or build the relationships that will get you there sometimes people try to take shortcuts though they try to get it done quickly and sure it gets you a quick result but if you time take the time to build the relationships around it not only will you get. But if you take the time to build the relationships around it, not only will you get it done, but you will get it done with buy-in. You will get it done with people that are wanting to see you succeed as much as they wanna succeed, because usually you help them succeed. If you’re entrepreneurial, I’ve had a few small businesses in my early career as well. If you wanna succeed, you only succeed by helping others succeed at whatever your services are. So in education, we’re helping people create careers. They come back and support the college as with the foundation or even just come in and do a presentation, support our students, take a co-op for our students, employ one of our students that’s just graduated. So you should never take a shortcut. It goes back to building those relationships, getting buy-in and building that respect.

Robert Audet
I have no doubt in my mind that if I ever in need of something, I can pick up the phone and call one of my many friends that I’ve made over the years and say, you know, do you have a contact that could help me with that? And we’ll find a solution. The one thing I have used in my entire career, well, I shouldn’t say my entire career, but after I heard it, which is probably close to 30 years ago, is, I don’t know who the author was, but it’s a statement that says, there’s no such thing as a problem, only opportunities to find solutions. You know, that inspires me every time I hear it, even though I’ve known it for like probably close to 30 years.

Robert Audet
Because if you go in with that mindset, you’re not just stopping at, I did my task today. You’re looking at how else can we make this better? You’re looking at who can I bring make this better? You’re looking at who can I bring in that will develop this with me? How can I surround myself with people that are smarter than me, that are better than me in so many skills, especially as I get older? I’m like, you know, you asked me what’s different and I said nothing. Well, that’s not true. I’ll tell you, technology is different. We just had a session on AI and then a session on academic integrity and how AI can impact it, etc. to help our faculty understand all the changes that are happening. And you know, am I the best person to actually offer that session? No, but I surround myself with people that have that high knowledge of AI, right? So it’s really about creating all those connections and always trying, if you’re entrepreneurial, stay a step ahead of the game. Wake up before everybody else, start your work before everybody else, try to know what’s coming ahead at you so you’re not surprised. And you’re likely finishing your day later than most people do. And as you get older, I guess harder.

Sam Demma
I’m taking a big theme away from all that around preparation, you know, preparing, taking initiative. I had a conversation with my uncle about, you know, how do you identify talent? And, and, um, the word for initiative he used was hungry, you know, same, same idea, like you go and get the work done. And he said, hungry, humble and smart. And the humble piece is also huge, you know, just reminding ourselves that we still have learning to do. We we are always students of the of the craft we’re working towards. And I think it’s just such an important reminder. There’s been moments in my life where I’ve really burned the midnight oil and read all the books. And then moments where I stopped reading as many books as I used to. And, and I catch myself every once in a while, why, why did I stop? You know, why did I, why did I get out of the game? You know, and, um, it’s, it’s, it’s really cool to hear about your passion for education.

Robert Audet
It’s not just about the books. The books are important, don’t get me wrong. There’s ways to fast track them nowadays too. Compared to the good old days when you read every word. I think for me, I’ve learned I learned more from everybody I meet, which is why I was looking so much forward to this interview, right. Then having a chat with you, because it doesn’t matter who you’re meeting with. If you’re actually taking the time to, to sit in and be present in that moment, you’re going to learn something every time. And I don’t care how old you are, how young you are. When sometimes people tell us stuff and we’re not ready to hear it or we’re not ready to absorb it and it comes back to us later and that’s okay but that and I guess that goes back to when I was saying you take every student to where they are and bring them that extra level right so sometimes it could be taken a student that is you know just barely surviving and you bring him up to you know oh I pass all my courses and they’re celebrating and they’re happy with that. And then you see them again two, three years down the road, now they’ve learned how to learn and they’re actually able to take on bigger challenges. And sometimes it’s actually just trying to keep up with a student that is so brilliant. You can’t keep up with them, but you support them and you eliminate barriers for them to make sure that they can keep running as fast as they can because they’re just a shining star going through the world. And you do your best to support that, like even though you can’t keep up. And you know what, that makes me happy because that’s the future. If I can’t keep up on with some of our students, that’s, that’s, that’s awesome.

Sam Demma
The mark of a great leader is when their students surpass them in many ways, you know, that’s why you build people up and lead them. And I am so grateful for you taking the time just to be here today to share some of your ideas around education, some of the things that have stayed the same and things that have adjusted or changed over the years, the importance of collaboration in working with other partners in the community and other educational institutions to drive forward common goals. Your passion for education is very obvious, and I hope as long as you continue to work in it you feel the same way about it and after you finish I will look forward to watching your business unfold. forward to watching your business unfold.

Robert Audet
Absolute pleasure, thank you.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Robert Audet

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Taylor Uroda – Student Life and Leadership Assistant and Mathu Vijayakumar – Orientation and Transition Assistant at Trent University Durham

Taylor Uroda - Student Life and Leadership Assistant and Mathu Vijayakumar - Orientation and Transition Assistant at Trent University Durham
About Taylor Uroda and Mathu Vijayakumar

Taylor Uroda (she/her) is completing a Bachelor’s in Social Work at Trent University Durham GTA. In her role as the Student Life and Leadership Assistant with the Student Life Team, Taylor plays a key part in developing student engagement initiatives and leadership programming, helping to foster a welcoming and dynamic campus environment.

A passionate advocate for the helping profession, Taylor has gained valuable hands-on experience working within the social service worker field, where she connects with individuals and communities to support their success. Her dedication to making a positive impact is fuelled by her belief in empowering others and promoting personal growth.

Taylor is particularly interested in pursuing a career in gerontology, where she hopes to enhance the lives of older adults through compassionate care and individualized support. She is driven by a desire to make meaningful contributions to her community and is always seeking opportunities to grow both personally and professionally.

Outside of her academic and professional pursuits, Taylor is a coffee enthusiast and puzzle lover who finds joy in life’s little challenges. She’s often found laughing, as she loves to incorporate humour into everything she does, lightening the mood wherever she goes. Her best friend, Mathu, frequently convinces Taylor to read her favourite books, though Taylor admits she’s still working on that long reading list!

Mathu Vijayakumar (she/her) is a 4th-year Bachelor of Social Work (BSW) student at Trent University Durham GTA, where she brings her unique perspective as a transfer, first-generation, and mature student to her academic journey. For the past three years, Mathu has been a key part of Student Life, focusing on creating meaningful programming for Summer Kickstart, Orientation, and Certificate programs. She’s led and trained Orientation Leaders and Captains, coordinated weekly on-campus events, and worked closely with the Trent Durham Student Association to bring events to life.

Currently, Mathu is completing her social work placement in Malvern, the community where she grew up. There, she facilitates psychoeducation workshops alongside a counsellor, covering topics like mental health, consent, and youth advocacy for middle and high school students. These workshops aim to foster resilience, self-awareness, and empowerment. Mathu is passionate about working with equity-deserving groups and amplifying marginalized voices, striving to create spaces for advocacy and change.

In her downtime, Mathu enjoys reading thrillers and romance novels, is currently tackling swimming lessons, and can often be found FaceTiming her dynamic duo, Taylor Uroda. She firmly believes in the power of community, humour, and the occasional good book to keep life balanced and fulfilling.

Connect with Taylor Uroda: Email | Linkedin
Connect with Mathu Vijayakumar: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Trent University Durham GTA

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

(Transcription from Rev)

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Taylor Uroda and Mathu Vijayakumar

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Mark Chapin — Principal of Meyer Middle School

Mark Chapin — Principal of Meyer Middle School
About Mark Chapin

Mark Chapin is the principal of Meyer Middle School in River Falls, Wisconsin, serving approximately 750 students in grades 6 – 8. Meyer Middle School was recognized as a National School of Character in 2016 and again in 2024.  Mark has served as a building administrator in the School District of River Falls for 16 years.  

Prior to coming to River Falls, Mark taught for 12 years in the Ellsworth Community School District as a high school special education teacher and an 8th grade US History teacher. While in Ellsworth he also coached cross-country, track, tennis and basketball.  In 2008 Mark was recognized as the Teacher of the Year in the Ellsworth Community School District. 

In 2019 Mark earned his doctorate degree from Bethel University.  His dissertation focused on character education, leadership and the change process. Mark currently serves as a character education coach through Alverno College and on the Wisconsin Character Education Partnership Advisory Committee.  

Mark works closely with the American Legion Post 121 in River Falls serving on their Veterans Memorial Committee. In 2014 he received the Post 121 Community Service Award.
Finally, in 2023 Mark was the recipient of the Herb Kohl Educational Foundation Leadership award.

In his spare time Mark enjoys fly fishing, splitting wood and mountain biking. 

Connect with Mark Chapin: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Meyer Middle School

School District of River Falls

Ellsworth Community School District

Bethel University

Alverno College

Wisconsin Character Education Partnership Advisory Committee

American Legion Post 121

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Mark Chapin. Mark and I connected months ago now. He has shared some impactful quotes with me over email. He let me know that he has 16 rules or principles that he shares with his middle school students every single year and it’s a big hit in his school. He is a advocate and has a huge passion for character development and how it can shape the life of our young people. He works closely with the state of Wisconsin when it comes to character development and I’ve really enjoyed our conversations about books to read and personal development and serving and supporting youth. Mark, thank you so much for taking some of your time to come on the show here today.

Mark Chapin
Thanks a lot, Sam. It’s truly an honor and it’s a privilege to be on your podcast today. And we’re super excited to have you come to Meijer Middle School at the end of April. I know our students and our staff are looking forward to you and your message.

Sam Demma
Let’s hope by then the snow storms have passed. Yeah, I agree. The weather’s back to normal. Do me a favor, Mark, and just take a moment to share a little bit about who you are and what got you interested in building and supporting the character of young people.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, my background, I grew up actually, it’s kind of a crazy story, but I’m the principal. I’m actually sitting in my principal’s office. I graduated from Rural Falls High School in 1990, which is in western Wisconsin. Went to UW-Eau Claire, which is in western Wisconsin, and got a degree, a 1.8 degree, with a special education minor. Student taught at the tribal school up in Hayward, Wisconsin, which is about two and a half hours north of our home here. And then ended up teaching for 13 years. I was a special education teacher for six and then I was a US History teacher for six years. And then I was an assistant principal at Ellsworth High School, which is right down the road, before coming back to my home in River Falls, and I’ve been here for 16 years. In terms of what got me really into education, my mom was a special education paraprofessional, and she provided me some opportunities to work with students, and I also had an opportunity to coach basketball when I was a senior in high school. A group of us, four guys, coached our seventh grade team. And I really realized at a pretty young age that I really had a knack and really enjoyed working with kids. And so my dad wasn’t too keen on me being a teacher. He was worried about me making enough money and supporting myself. So I actually went to school to be an econ major.

Mark Chapin
I did that for a year and I realized I have no idea what a person with an econ degree does for a living. But I always knew in the back of my mind I wanted to teach. And then I worked at a summer camp for five summers up at Eagle River, Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin. And I just I think I followed my calling at that point. And in terms of the yes question about character education, I’ve always been passionate about positive psychology, you know, developing ourselves, but then how can we take that and apply that here at school? And I was fortunate enough to be on a committee called the Healthy Lives Committee through our strategic plan and pitched this idea of character education. And it’s kind of evolved here in our district and it’s being implemented in all of our schools, our four elementary schools, our middle school and our high school. And I just feel like historically education has been something where, you know, going back to Horace Mann and Thomas Jefferson, it was educating the head and educating the heart. And I feel like we’ve gotten away from the heart. And so it’s something that I’ve just been really passionate about.

Sam Demma
When you talk about character education, tell me more about what that means to you or what that lens looks like that you look through when you talk about it.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, that’s a great question. What I know is that the best teacher of character are adults in our kids’ worlds, and that starts with parents. But we also know students don’t grow up, our kids don’t get to pick their parents.

Mark Chapin
But definitely, character has to start in the home. And so as adults, we need to make sure that we’re modeling good character. And so within our district, we wanted to find a model that was out there. And we looked at different frameworks.

Mark Chapin
The one that we came across was from character.org. It’s based on 11 principles. It’s not a canned curriculum. It really helps shape your culture of your school. You start off with principle one by identifying what you value as a community. In our district, we sat down with 40 community members.

Mark Chapin
We went round and round and round. We had two really lengthy meetings and we landed on nine character traits that we value as a community. And that’s true for the framework. So the community can decide what they value. And these are universal values.

Mark Chapin
And I think people get hung up on this idea of values and ethics, but it really transcends all religions. It goes back to Aristotle. And when you read off the list of these character traits or values, it’s hard to argue with them. So things like gratitude, curiosity, respect, responsibility, compassion, perseverance, you know, it’s hard to argue with those things. So, you know, we start with the framework. I mentioned modeling, that’s principle eight, but that framework has really guided our work. And it’s the work that I have an opportunity to work with other districts on how to implement that framework.

Sam Demma
How do you ensure the principles or values are consistently reinforced within the school community? It sounds like they become foundational. Is it month by month? Is it through the teachers? Obviously, modeling the behavior must be a big part of it. But I’d love to hear more.

Mark Chapin
Yeah. Yeah, it’s a great question. So we we focus on one character trade a month and we kind of joke that, you know, once we finish the perseverance, that kids don’t have to persevere anymore.

Mark Chapin
That’s not the case. We want to make sure we’re doing these all the time, but we do do a character kickoff once a month. I get a chance to get in front of kids. We define what it is. We talk about what it looks like. I usually typically show a video. If you guys or anybody out there listening wants to find some really good resource, go to Steve Hartman, Kindness 101. They’re short clips. He’s from CBS and he’s fantastic. So we show a video and then we do a quick reflection, and I send them on their way. We have a group called Girls Who Give Back that signs up around the building, so it’s communicated, so there’s that kind of visual marketing of it as well. And then each grade level has a different theme. That sixth grade focuses on what’s called the Everest Project every year, and that’s focusing on goal setting, so identifying your goals, identifying your character strengths, so they go through a strength finder with the kids, take them through the goal-setting process. That’s really inspiring for our kids.

Mark Chapin
Seventh grade is our service-learning project, so giving back. So, it’s the, when we talk about character, we talk about the head, getting kids thinking about it, the heart, getting them feeling it, and then the hands. So the head, heart, and hands, the hands part is going out in the community. And I’m sure you’ll talk about this with your backpack and your taco and all that,

Mark Chapin
which I’m looking forward to our kids hearing that story. So that giving back, the hands-on, the service learning. And then eighth grade, we have what’s called academic career planning. So we’ve charactered into that as well. And so we have a career fair, and through our careers class that we have in eighth grade, we identify kids’ strengths, we do career interest inventories and those types of things. So, and then like I said, we model it, we have to model it, continue to model it. And then the framework itself, the 11 principles, there’s a rubric that goes with it. So every three years we come back, we identify what we’re doing well, we identify one goal area to get a little bit better every year.

Sam Demma
It sounds very methodical and thought out. And I hope that if there’s another educator listening to this and they’re curious, they reach out to you to ask some questions about it so they can bring something similar to their district or their school. It sounds like you’ll be doing this work even after you finish at the school. So I’ll definitely make sure we include your email information in the show notes in case anyone does want to reach out.

Sam Demma
I had an educator who pulled me to the side of his desk and he said, Sam, living with principles and working hard is never a waste because it builds your character and you carry your character forward with you for the rest of your life. Living with principles and working hard is never a waste because it builds your character and you carry your character forward with you for the rest of your life. How do we remind young people that every choice they make impacts their character, both the positive and the negative? And when a student does make a mistake, how do we address it in a way that builds them up instead of tears them down?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s a great, great question. And I mentioned my 16 life lessons, and one is be forgiving. And so my middle school has been recognized twice as a national school character through character.org, once in 2016 and again in 2023.

Mark Chapin
And I often talk about just because we’ve been recognized as a national school character doesn’t mean we’re perfect. We work with imperfect human beings and I wish I could control everything that comes out of 750 kids’ mouths and all their actions, but I can’t. And so we tell kids that and we have to be forgiving of ourselves. And anytime there’s a kid that’s in any type of trouble or hasn’t demonstrated good character, I let them know, like, listen, good kids make poor choices.

Mark Chapin
They make bad choices sometimes. It doesn’t make them a bad person or a bad kid. And so kids need to hear that. And the important thing is to reflect on it, learn from it, and try not to repeat it. I think that that’s the important thing when it comes to, you know, that we aren’t perfect and we are gonna make mistakes, but we’re gonna keep striving for it, right?

Mark Chapin
You wanna strive for excellence, strive for good character. And you mentioned the other thing is, one of my other life lessons is yes and no are the two most important words we’ll ever use in our life. Right, so sometimes it’s a split split split second. Like, and so we talked about the importance of pausing before you say something to somebody. Pause before you do something that you might regret.

Mark Chapin
So just take a second to pause. And so that’s one more reminder when we talk about character.

Sam Demma
Where did the inspiration come for you to sit down and craft some of the principles, the 16 life lessons you shared with students? I have recently been inspired by many authors, some of which are very much focused on building your life’s philosophy. One is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, who’s passed away now. And he spends his whole lecture talking about the importance of philosophy and how circumstances determine where you start, but your philosophy determines where you finish. What inspired you to start crafting this life lesson philosophy for your students?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. Again, our podcast, isn’t going to see this, but this is by my desk. We had a keynote speaker that came by, I don’t know how many years ago, and this is when I was teaching, grade. And it was fundamental rejuvenation. And it had 12 things on it. And I started looking at the list.

Mark Chapin
I was like, those resonate with me. And I said, are there more to that? Or am I on the same page with this, our speaker? And I think kind of in some ways, these are the character things that we pass on to our kids. Before I knew it was character when I was teaching, you know, this was 15, 16 years ago, probably longer than that, almost 20 years ago now, I wanted to pass this along to my students. And so a lot of this is really character-based stuff that probably at the time I didn’t realize was character, but these are the things that kids can take with them that’s gonna make an impact. And I think about like employers, what are employers looking for? I mean, do they want a positive attitude? They want people that can collaborate with other people. There are all these intangible things we talk about character, but where is it being intentionally taught or implemented in schools today? It is just so important.

Mark Chapin
And you can you can look at all the research on it. What employers are looking for: teach the skill and hire for character.

Sam Demma
I had a mentor tell me at the bottom of my job application to put a filter that said, if you believe you’re the right fit for the role, please record a one minute video explaining why. And I was hiring for an executive assistant and we spent $250 on LinkedIn promoting the post. And we received 2000 applications.

Mark Chapin
Wow.

Sam Demma
Guess how many people filmed and sent through a video? 14. And when you do the percentage, it’s like 0.01, less than 0.01%.

Mark Chapin
Wow.

Sam Demma
And I thought, wow, like attention to detail. This role requires attention to detail, yet 99.9% of people didn’t even read the actual job posting. And the reality is that these are individuals who are unemployed and looking for employment. And I was like, ah, like I just wanted to shake them and just grab them and say, come on, you deserve better than this. You can do better than this. And I think that a piece of that comes back to character and how you treat every interaction and every touchpoint in life. And you piqued my curiosity with the 16 lessons, and now you’ve shared two.

Sam Demma
Do you mind sharing a few more of them that are top of mind right now?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, so you just mentioned, kind of just taking pride in your work, right? Attention to detail. We talk about be a craftsman. So back in the day, how people got business is through word of mouth.

Mark Chapin
And so craftsmen would sign their name somewhere on a piece of furniture. So we talk about when you do turn your homework in, sign it with pride. Like you’re the craftsman, make sure there’s attention to detail. Did you read the directions? Are you doing your best work? I talk about, and this is a good example of taking pride in your work. I asked the kids, how many of you mow the lawn? There’s quite a few kids that still mow lawn. I said, how many start daydreaming? A lot of hands go up. How many of you start daydreaming and all of a sudden you look back and there’s a 20-foot strip that you completely missed? I said, okay, me too. I said, how many of you go back and mow it? Half the hands go down. I said, how many of you go back and mow it? You know, they keep their, that’s pride in your work, right? Are you going back and mowing that strip of grass? So that’s another one we talk about. I’m big in having a positive attitude. I think people, it’s hard to be around people that are negative. I think it sucks the life out of you.

Mark Chapin
I talk a lot about Viktor Frankl, the last of our human freedoms is the ability to choose our own attitude. We talk about that. The importance of goal setting. I share a story about Billy Mills and his goal setting process. He won the 10,000 meters in the 1960 Olympics. Talk about leaving your comfort zone. What else? I mentioned the yes and no.

Mark Chapin
Your true character is how you act and how you behave when nobody’s looking. So that’s important. Finding a career you love. Taking care of your body. Here’s an example of you never know how your words are gonna have an impact.

Mark Chapin
We talk about how your tongue is like the rudder of a ship and it can steer you one way or the other. And your words can build people up or tear people down. Like use it to be encouraging. The word encouragement means putting courage into others. And so I shared this story when I was in college. I was getting out of shape. I used to be in really good shape.

Mark Chapin
I was putting on weight. I looked at myself in the mirror when I was a senior in college, I was like, isn’t this the best shape I’m gonna be in the rest of my life? And so, sorry, I should have taken my phone off the hook.

Mark Chapin
Sorry. I started training for a marathon. I signed for a marathon the next day, started training. I had really no business to start, but I did. And I finished my first marathon. And so I shared this story. I mentioned my life lessons. I shared with my eighth graders. And didn’t think of anything other than the last day of school, I shared my list. I shared on the first day as well. And three years later, the student came up to me. He was at prom, and he said, you don’t recognize me, Mr. Chapin, do you? And I said, no, I don’t.

Mark Chapin
He said, your face looks familiar, I can’t picture you. He goes, you don’t recognize me because I lost 100 pounds. I said, how in the world did you lose 100 pounds? He said, I remember what you told me on the last day of school in eighth grade. I started to watch what I ate and I lost. You just, you never know how your words are going to impact people.

Sam Demma
I think it’s such a crazy and beautiful experience when you share inspiration and you’re not sure who it’s going to touch, how it’s going to touch them, when it’s going to click, but when you do see the result of that, it’s really gratifying. You know, I had a mentor for three years named Chris Cummins who is now like an uncle to me in many regards. And he would say, Sam, try this, do this. And, okay, coach, I’m doing it. And every time I would show up and I would try and I would take the shot he told me to take. And after three years, we’ve now transitioned from a coaching relationship just to very close friends and colleagues. And he hasn’t coached anyone else or taken many people on. And he’s like, you know, I tell a lot of people to do the same things I told you to do and most people don’t.

Sam Demma
And I, and I just think, what phenomenon is that? Like, how do we explain that? You know, and this is a person I wanted to be like, and I looked up to, and it sounds like that message you shared really connected with that young person. I’m sure it made you feel like good about it, right?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s the whole starfish. You probably read the starfish, right? Yeah.

Sam Demma
Yeah.

Mark Chapin
It’s like the thousands, you just don’t know if you’re going to make an impact. And there’s certain days where you just you get tired and you get frustrated. Like, am I making am I making an impact at all? And then you’ll get that one note. We’ll get that one email or that one phone call. It’s like, yep, it made a difference.

Sam Demma
Now, what habits do you practice consistently outside of your time

Sam Demma
in the classroom that helps you show up as best you possibly can.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, that’s another great question. First of all, I think self-care is important. So I know when I’m getting anxious and edgy, like if I’m not exercising regularly, I’m not my best self. I do my best thinking after exercise. I’m always in a positive mood,

Mark Chapin
even though I don’t feel like at the time getting up in the morning, like I’m swimming laps or riding my bike in my basement in the winter time. Like that’s important. I think reading devotions, I start my day every day with two devotions.

Mark Chapin
I send out the daily quote, which I’ve sent to you the last couple of days now. You’re on a very select list of people I send it to. But I do send it to my staff every day and then my staff pass it on to their kids in the morning. Not all of them yet. I’m trying to get them to do that because there are such great quotes. That’s from values.com if you’re looking for some kind of motivational boost.

Mark Chapin
You mentioned Jim Rohn. Just watching YouTube, a lot of positive psychology, how can I better myself? Those are kind of the main things.

Sam Demma
I read a book recently that was really influential to me called Turning Pro by a guy named Steven Pressfield. And he talks about the difference between amateurs and professionals. And to be frank, I felt quite embarrassed about myself after I finished reading the book in a really good way. And I think sometimes the inspiration comes from an emotion like embarrassment. And for me, it came from this idea that I’ve spent a lot of time speaking, and especially in the earlier parts of my career, practicing my speeches and consistently writing.

Sam Demma
And then I got so busy, I would just write and speak when I was on the road doing it for people. But outside of that, there wasn’t much of a daily habit and or practice of doing it. And that book really clearly outlines that professionals have a daily practice, and they have a space where they practice, and they have a time when they practice, and they have an attention around their practice. And they show up every single day, and they’re ruthless with their work. They are craftsmen. He shared a story of Pablo Picasso, and someone bought his paintings and stuck them in a gallery.

Sam Demma
And two years later, the gallery opened, and Picasso walked in as a guest to check out his paintings. And he grabbed a razor and cut all of his paintings up on the wall into shreds. And the gallery owner said, what are you doing? And he said, this work is pathetic.

Sam Demma
It’s not a reflection of my work. I will get you some new ones. And I just thought, what a standard to hold yourself to, but to be a true craftsman. And I really appreciate you sharing that reminder to just continue being a student and listening to the things that will change your mindset and continuing to read.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, you mentioned, Sam, that consistency. I just share this with our students in our auditorium with one of our character kickoffs, just how important that consistency with either training or practicing. And I shared with them that it took me five years to finish my dissertation to get my doctorate degree. And I wasn’t making progress. I just, I wasn’t getting it done. And the lit review, the reading, this takes forever. I kept driving by this house in my neighborhood that the workers would show up every day at 6:45 and there they were. And before you know it, the foundation was built and then the framing was up. And I realized like, if I’m gonna get this dissertation up, I have to do work every single day. Otherwise the house isn’t going to get built. My dissertation is not going to get done. And that’s when I started making progress on my paper. Yeah.

Mark Chapin
You know, it’s funny too.

Sam Demma
Jim Rohn often says, my life changed when I was 25. I feel like I was subconsciously waiting until 25 to get in the saddle more consistently for certain things, you know? But I sincerely appreciate your time and the intention around all the work you’re doing. I’m beyond excited to visit the school soon and meet in person and collaborate with your school and your students. If there’s an educator listening, I’ll put your email in the show notes so they can reach out. Absolutely. But I wanted to just say sincerely, Mark, thank you so much for the time, the energy, and everything you’re doing in education.

Mark Chapin
Thanks, Sam. I appreciate it. And hopefully we get out fly fishing when you come to River Falls.

Sam Demma
Can’t wait.

Mark Chapin
All right, Sam, good to talk to you.

Sam Demma
Talk soon.

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Shandi Andres — State Adviser for Kansas FCCLA

Shandi Andres — State Adviser for Kansas FCCLA
About Shandi Andres

Shandi Andres is the State Adviser for Kansas FCCLA.  She also serves a Family and Consumer Sciences (FCS) Education Instructor at Kansas State University.  She is a recipient of the American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences (AAFCS) 2023 Leaders Award. She started her career as a FCS Teacher and FCCLA Adviser.  She moved to a position as an Extension Agent. She served as a FCS & 4-H Agent while also serving as a District Director. These experiences led her to the current position.  

This position allows her to work with youth and FCS professionals from across the state and nation.  Shandi believes that Family and Consumer Science courses, skills, and experiences provide a foundation for individuals to succeed. FCCLA is the student organization as part of FCS in which students are able to grow as leaders and develop skills for life.  

Connect with Shandi Andres: Email | Instagram | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Kansas FCCLA

Kansas State University

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam. And today we are joined by Shandi Andres. Shandi Andres is the State Advisor for Kansas FCCLA, and she also serves as a Family and Consumer Science Educational Instructor at Kansas State University.

Sam Demma
She’s the recipient of the American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences Leadership Award in 2023. And she started her career as an FCS teacher and FCCLA advisor, which I’m sure she’ll be talking a little bit about here today. She’s also done some work with 4-H and with the district as a director.

Sam Demma
And these experiences have led her to her position today. She’s also currently in calving season. with the district as a director. And these experiences have led her to her position today. She’s also currently in calving season. And I know it’s very busy for her. Shandi, thank you so much for setting aside some time to be on the podcast here today.

Shandi Andres
Yeah, thanks Sam for having me.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about what got you interested and involved in education and family consumer sciences.

Shandi Andres
So, I remember even as a little kid thinking that I wanted to be a teacher. Many fellow educators, you know, when they were little, they probably had their siblings set up and playing school, etc. And that was no different at my house. However, the biggest difference was I didn’t want to teach math, I didn’t want to teach reading. So I knew I wanted to be a teacher, but I didn’t really know what I wanted to teach. And it wasn’t until I got to high school, my freshman year, one of my best friends drug me into the organization fair and her aunt was the FCCLA teacher and FACTS or FCCLA advisor and FACTS teacher and she drug me in and she said, hey, we should do this. And I said, okay. So I signed up and I was actually enrolled in a facts class that semester. And what I found was that I found my home. I grew up with an ag background, absolutely love ag, grew up in 4-H. But I found my home in FCS.

Shandi Andres
That’s the acronym we use for family and consumer sciences. So you’ll hear people say FACTS, you’ll hear people say FCS, but it all comes down to the same. And so my high school career, I took as many family and consumer science classes as I could. I was a chapter officer, star event participant, district officer, and really launched my desire to be a FACS teacher. So by the time I was a junior, I was committed to being a FACS teacher and that’s kind of continued with my path of family and consumer sciences.

Sam Demma
What was it specifically about family and consumer sciences versus the other subject areas that really drew you in or pulled you in?

Shandi Andres
No, it was skills that everybody could use every day. When we think about, yes, we need math. We really do. You know, kids don’t necessarily see that they need math, but I can tell you exactly how we use it. You know, when don’t necessarily see that they need math, but, but I can tell you exactly how we use it. You know, when I am going to make a recipe and it’s written as a single recipe, but I want to quadruple it because I’m serving a larger group, then I can calculate that out in my head because I know how fractions work and how our, our math works. So it’s real life skills. It’s also skills like communication and public speaking that we grow and develop through our time in those family and consumer science classes. And so if you think about our careers, we have a lot of careers in the new career cluster model and previously that are connected to family and consumer sciences, but our skills that we learn in family and consumer sciences launch us into any career, help us to be better people and to be better consumers. If we think about family and consumer sciences, we can break that down. So anything that involves us as being a member of a family, and that means as a member of the family, we’re a member of the community.

Shandi Andres
But also then we think about consumerism and how do we make better decisions as consumers. And so that might mean when I buy a car, how do I choose that process and that purchase to make the best choice for me? But it could also mean that how do I choose a banking product or how do I choose my insurance? And so all of those impact us as individuals. and FCCLA is that I’m going to call it professional development component for students in the area of the family and consumer sciences but when I’m talking to potential students or teachers, parents about our program then a lot of times I get well what can I do if I don’t want to be in family and consumer sciences.

Shandi Andres
We have a lot of components that are just about making making yourself better. One of our national programs is the power of one and so it really is about you personally. How do we how do we make ourselves better? When we think about power of one, then it has modules within it. So one of them is a better you. And so you set personal goals for yourself to be able to improve something about you. One of them is a family tie. So maybe that means that you want to improve our relationship with your mom or dad. Working on working, so I’m going to prepare for a career, how do I do that? Take the lead and then speak out for FCCLA. Those are just, that’s just a very basic program within FCCLA and so it’s applicable to anyone. Our competitive events are the same way. When we think about maybe you want to be in a family and consumer science-related career, but maybe you don’t.

Shandi Andres
And if you don’t, there’s still competitive events and story events like leadership or career investigation that are very much just about you and not necessarily about a family and consumer science science related career.

Sam Demma
Tell me about your first experience with FCCLA.

Shandi Andres
I don’t know if I can tell you my very first experience. But I do know that I was part of our chapter. So that’s the basic unit building blocks within the organization. So our chapter was in our high school. And so we had a chapter there where I went to high school. And so we had monthly meetings.

Shandi Andres
Those monthly meetings allowed me to see how parliamentary procedure was used in a business meeting beyond just knowing Robert’s Rules of Order, how do we use it. But then we also planned activities, community service projects. We took some of our national programs and created projects within the school and communities. I did star events. So my freshman, sophomore and junior year, I competed in the job interview of star event.

Shandi Andres
And my goal was to make it to nationals. And so I did my junior year I made it to nationals. Part of the job interview event means that you’re going to have a job that you want to apply for. You’re going to create a portfolio as if you are preparing for that job. And then you meet with the judges just like a formal interview process and they’re going to have your material.

Shandi Andres
And that was a great learning experience for me as an individual, not only to think about the preparation of that portfolio, but also then how do I efficiently communicate with the person sitting on the other side of the table, and to be able to take constructive criticism and feedback from those judges. So my junior year, I qualified for nationals, and I was able to go to nationals that year and that was that was fantastic to be able to do that. My senior year then I had to choose a different project. I couldn’t take the same events so I had to I did something different but but that created that process created a lot of opportunities for connections but in personal growth. The one year I was working on my job interview event and we actually had a parliamentary procedure team from our chapter. And so that team actually worked, they met a lot.

Shandi Andres
They usually met two or three times a week to go through their practice. And one of our chapter members that was on the Parlipro team that year actually was diagnosed with diabetes during the preparation. And so to see the connections that happen beyond just school and classroom for those for my friends and those fellow students was just amazing and we don’t create those connections when we’re just just

Sam Demma
attending class. It sounds like every touch point you’ve had with FCCLA has been an impactful one. Whether you were the student or the advisor, or just involved at an event. Why do you think it’s important that more students get involved in experiences like FCCLA or FCS?

Shandi Andres
Well, one of them I think that’s really important is connection. You know, our students when in middle school and high school really need that connection. Yes, they need that connection with their peers, but they also need that connection with an adult in their building. And so when we participate in extracurricular or intercurricular activities, then we actually help build those connections and students do better in school. FCCLA, depending on who you ask, would say, or most of the time we would say that it is intercurricular. So the hope is that all of those advisors are using the FCCLA materials within their classroom. And then sometimes it becomes extracurricular because you have students who really want to take it above and beyond. But it is designed to be intercurricular. And yes, it does take a little time outside of class if you are doing well within your chapter.

Sam Demma
What part in your journey did you also start serving at Kansas State University?

Shandi Andres
So when I was fresh out of high school, or out of college, I actually attended Kansas State University. And then when I was fresh out of college, I took a teaching position. So I taught in a family and consumer science program in a multi-teacher department. So there were two of us and served as the FECLA advisor. I had my two children and my husband and I made the decision that I was going to leave the classroom so I could stay home and so I stayed home with my kids for a couple of years. My husband was managing an Angus operation. And so then our family process, I actually went to work full time on the ranch for five years. And when we moved home, we were living about two hours from where we grew up.

Shandi Andres
So when we moved home, I took a position with K-State Research and Extension. And if you’re not familiar with extension, extension is associated with the land grant universities, oftentimes called cooperative extension. And in Kansas, that’s housed through K-State. And so I became a Kansas State University employee when I joined K-State Research and Extension as an agent. And so I was the Family and Consumer Science and 4-H agent for the district. And I was with them for six and a half years. I took over as interim director during my time and then I went to director.

Shandi Andres
And I absolutely loved Extension and I loved 4-H. And we all have paths in our journey and part of my journey included a change. And so I, technically I changed job, but I’m still employed through Kansas State University. So I moved from my position with extension, which was out in the county. To campus and so I’m housed at Kansas State University. And my position is a 2 part position. So, I, I am employed on campus and so 20% of my contract is for teaching. That’s the family and consumer science education instructor. And so I teach our methods course for our students who are going to be family and consumer science teachers.

Sam Demma
Oh, wow.

Shandi Andres
Yeah. So I get to work with our pre-service teachers. And so in the fall, I methods and supervise practicum. And then in the spring I supervise student teaching for those students. And so making their placements out in the field and matching them up and doing their supervisions. And I work with our student organization for FACS Ed. And then the rest of my time is spent as the Kansas FCLA state advisor. And that is a contract through our state Department of Education. So they contract out our state advisors. And so that happens to be the other part of my position. I I love the combination of my position. I love that I still get to work with professionals in the field. I get to help prepare our students as they’re entering the classroom. And then I get to work with our state officers and planning our state events. So that’s the state advisor role. So I serve as an administrative function for the organization. And then I help work with our state officers and help plan leadership trainings at state events and get to see all of it come together every time. And so that’s really an amazing process and a rewarding part of my job.

Sam Demma
When you speak about it, it’s so clear that you’re passionate about all of the roles because it sounds like you could talk about them forever and you light up and you’re smiling the whole time. When you think of the advisors you had, is there any that still are front and center in your mind?

Shandi Andres
Well, I just had one FCCLA advisor. My chapter advisor was there the whole time. And she’s actually now a cousin by marriage. My husband and I started dating before I started high school. And his mom and my teacher’s husband were first cousins. And so I got to know her through class, but also outside.

Shandi Andres
And so what I appreciated about her as an advisor was her willingness to let students take the lead, jump in for pretty much anything. We were able to toss at her. But also her passion for family, for sciences, and for teaching. She was very animated, very structured in her classroom, and so I really appreciated those dynamics.

Shandi Andres
She has since left the classroom, but obviously we still still chat. And it did make a huge difference and an impact on on what I was going to do. And it was a simple ask of, hey, because you know you could do this as a career. And sometimes we have interactions with great people, but they don’t necessarily see their potential. And so as teachers, as adults working with youth, sometimes it means a simple observation of, hey, have you considered this for your career? Or have you considered looking at this? Because I think you’d be great at it.

Shandi Andres
And I think that’s really important as we think about choose preparing, choosing, advocating for teachers is how do we grow that profession? How do we encourage those youths to capture and take hold of their natural interest?

Sam Demma
It sounds like one of the ways you support young people is by acknowledging their own greatness through suggestions of pathways that they could pursue based on your observations. When it comes to building relationships with young people, supportive relationships, both with FCCLA or in the classroom, what else do you think makes all the difference when it comes to connecting with the young person?

Shandi Andres
Sometimes it’s simply them knowing that you are available, that you care, that you understand, but also sometimes that means picking up on the little things. I have our state president right now and she’s actually been on our state officer team for two years. And so she traveled with me to one of our events. And in one, she’s very, very, very good about writing thank you notes. Thank you notes following the event. And that’s one of the things that she excels at. But in one of her

Shandi Andres
thank you notes, she commented about like, thanks for always having a listening ear and for having gum to chew on when I need it. So sometimes it’s the little things that you capture. One of our training events this last fall, we usually go, I usually take our state officers, part of their training, but also advocacy

Shandi Andres
opportunities is to go to Capital Leadership, which is held in DC. And it didn’t happen this last year because of the election year. And so we went to a different training, one at the Fall Leadership Institute, and that was actually a partnership with Disney this year. So they went and did the leadership training with Disney, and then as a bonus, then they got to go to the Disney theme park to check it out.

Sam Demma
Oh, wow.

Shandi Andres
One of my state officers was very adamant that he doesn’t like roller coasters. He skipped out on the Incredicoaster. But he had his sights set on Space Mountain. He was going to go on Space Mountain while we were there. If you’re not familiar, Space Mountain is a roller coaster inside.

Sam Demma
Dark.

Shandi Andres
Dark.

Sam Demma
Yeah.

Shandi Andres
It’s absolutely dark. So we convinced him that he could go on their runaway rail car with us. And he ended up, our group got split. So we had a group at the front and a group at the back. And when we got done, he survived and he had a smile on his face. But he told me that he was going to ride with me on Space Mountain. And I said, okay. And he goes, because you laugh on the roller coasters and that makes me feel better. And I was at the front, yes, I laugh on roller coasters. And I said, you could hear me? And he goes, yeah, I could hear your laugh on the roller coaster.

Shandi Andres
And so it was something that I do naturally and I didn’t think about it. But his statement made me think about how sometimes we do little things that others pay attention to and capture onto that we don’t. It does have an impact on others, positive or negative. I think that’s important to remember. But in this case, it made me smile and it made my heart happy to hear him, hear him, um, take that in a positive light instead of negative.

Sam Demma
Oh, my, my laugh sounds like a flock of dying geese. So we’re the same people can recognize it from some ways away. And you’re so right. Sometimes the things that we take for granted are the things, not even maybe take for granted, but the things we don’t even recognize are the things that other people appreciate the most.

Sam Demma
And I think that’s what’s so unique about education or working with young people is you never really know what’s going to connect and make a difference, but you show up with the intention every single day to be of service and support and help and trust that something will connect and will make an impact. It’s been such a pleasure chatting with you. I can’t believe the time has already flown by. If some educator is, you know, an educator is listening to this, they might be struggling right now or a little bit burnt out. What advice would you give a colleague or someone else in education who’s just going through a lot right now?

Shandi Andres
I would say I have two parts to this. One of them is to remember your why, because your why, if you can remember that, will usually help you get through some of those tough times, but also remind us like, what’s your purpose? Why did you get into this? Or, why do you hope to help others with? What’s your why? That’s the first one. The second thing is, I think today, even more than ever, it’s really important to remember that we practice some self-care. Maybe that means that we take our calendar and we write it, make sure we have white space. If you’re not familiar with white space,

Shandi Andres
I use a paper calendar intentionally because I can see if I have any white space on my day and that’s me. But making sure that we have some white space for ourselves, for our own time or know where those boundaries are. But also maybe it’s the little thing.

Shandi Andres
Maybe that means there’s a song that’s your pick me up. Maybe that means there’s a scent that is your go-to. Maybe that’s a candle you can keep close. Maybe that’s a perfume or a spray. But something that reminds you, even when days are tough, to take a deep breath. And what’s the good? And let the bad go. Breathe it out. And so I think those two parts are really important as we take care of ourselves as educators and to be able to give back to our profession.

Sam Demma
I got a lot of green space and yellow space and red space and blue space. I got to find some white space, Shandi. I appreciate you so much for taking the time to share some of your journey and beliefs around education and impacting young people.

Sam Demma
I look forward to meeting you shortly. I’m so excited to be of service and support to Kansas FCCLA. If there is an educator listening to this that wants to reach out and ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch? You can reach me at my email.

Shandi Andres
So that’s sdandres@ksu.edu.

Sam Demma
Awesome. Thank you so much for your time and keep up the amazing work you’re doing.

Shandi Andres
Thanks, Sam. Hope to see you in April.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Shandi Andres

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Callie Sue Costello – Senior at Centennial High School, Boise, Idaho and Idaho FCCLA State President

Callie Sue Costello - Senior at Centennial High School, Boise, Idaho and Idaho FCCLA State President
About Callie Sue Costello

Callie Sue Costello is a dedicated senior at Centennial High School in Boise, Idaho, and has been an active member of the Family, Career, and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA) since her freshman year. Currently serving as the Idaho FCCLA State President, Callie has demonstrated exemplary leadership, compassion, and empathy in her work with her peers and the community. These values are at the core of her work within FCCLA, where she has focused on building strong connections with others, as she believes that relationships are the foundation of meaningful change.

Callie Sue has a deep passion for Family and Consumer Sciences (FCS), which has inspired her plans to attend Boise State University (BSU) in the fall to pursue a degree in Early Childhood Education. With aspirations of becoming a teacher, she is committed to making a positive impact on the lives of children and their families.

One of Callie Sue’s most defining traits is her resilience—she never gives up. Whether it’s through her leadership in FCCLA or her personal academic pursuits, Callie is determined to face challenges head-on and continues to inspire those around her with her perseverance and dedication.

Connect with Callie Sue Costello: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Centennial High School

Family, Career, and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA)

Idaho FCCLA

Boise State University (BSU)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Callie Sue Costello. Callie, a senior at Centennial High School in Boise, Idaho, currently serves as the Idaho FCCLA State President after being actively involved in the organization since her freshman year. Her leadership within Family, Career, and Community Leaders of America reflects her core values of compassion and relationship building as catalysts for meaningful change. With a deep passion for family and consumer sciences, Callie plans to attend Boise State University to pursue early childhood education, channeling her notable resilience and determination into her goal of becoming a teacher who positively impacts children and families. She is also one of the most persistent and dedicated people that I know. Callie, thank you for taking the time to be on the show here today. Please, tell me a little bit about your experience as a student and how it got you involved in FCCLA.

Callie Sue
So, back like four years ago when I was a little baby freshman, I took a class called leadership. And at the time we had a student teacher, Mr. Montana, who is now my like FCC advisor. My advisor like there’s like the lead teacher that was Ms. Berglund. She’s like my first advisor and I love her to death and she moved away so that after my freshman year. I took leadership and that class is tied in with FCCLA. So you do projects with for FCCLA in that class and then it just like you get created on that you get tied about FCCLA. You could say hey come to this event let’s go. And you get a day out of school pay 20 bucks to go You know, it’s a day at school. I didn’t care what I was missing And then I took that as okay like like this is gonna be fun because I wanted to be a part of something Knowing myself. I’m not someone that doesn’t try hard. I’m not someone that just gives up on something. So I wanted to I wanted to be an essay so I make a change. So my freshman year I was a chapter officer so for like for my school um which is just Centennial I was the first VP so I took all the notes for the meeting and just hope if the president was gone and then I said okay I want to do more this is not enough for me I’m not doing anything and then I ran for um district so a little bit bigger part of Idaho, and I did PR. So social media, Instagram, Facebook, that was fun, but I wanted to do more. And I said, I’m not gonna stop there. And then my sophomore to junior year, I ran for state officer, that was my first term. And I did PR again, because it’s a little bit more like the bigger scale, state officer is a big step. You go through all the crazy speeches in front of all the 500 people at the state conference and the nerve-wracking just everything about running for the office is crazy. Makes you want to cry. And then last year I wanted to run one more time for my senior year and I was elected as the state president for ILO at CCLA against, and I have a team of eight right now, so I am meeting I’m getting asking to our conference in April.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about wanting to be a part of something. I think that is a desire that everyone has, you know, and tell me how FCCLA kind of filled that desire or want.

Callie Sue
Um, well, I think growing up, my mom said, you’re going to be able to, you’re going to do something, Kelly. She always said, you wear your heart on your sleeve. You care for everybody. You need to, you need to do something with that, like with your passion. And so, at CCLA, I learned, I found my love for being a teacher. Within the CCLA, I just competed in a project a couple of months ago about positive guidance for children, and that is teaching teachers how to be a better teacher. And looking at me, who is a little baby high schooler that doesn’t have a college degree or anything that just has worked with time and been involved with leadership and connection and communication. It’s like I can make a change on a student through talking to a teacher in a different way. And from the consumer sciences is really what that is, is connection and leadership. And basically what you need to do, you need to have SES to even do a lot of basic things, like cooking and getting dressed every day, you need to have SES to do that.

Callie Sue
And so I think being able to make a change through, like even like when I met you and I introduced you to my team, like that was like, I made a change of like, hey, like we can get this guy. He’s crazy. Like we can bring him, because everyone on the team said, no, you can’t do that. You can’t, you can’t make him, you can’t pull him onto our team. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Just watch. And that’s why I’m just very persistent. And I don’t like giving up and that’s the way that I make a change. I feel like it’s because I’m setting the bar higher than someone else. Maybe not. Maybe I think I reached that bar and you know, and I’m going to be the one that says, no, I’ll try. Just watch. I’ll try.

Sam Demma
For context, for everyone listening, Callie saw me speak at a conference in Boise. I wanna say it was last November. Two years ago, me. Two years ago. And decided, you know,

Callie Sue
Sam, it’d be awesome to have you come and speak at our event as well. The event is a little bit of a smaller size event. So the team probably told her, there’s no way it’s gonna work out. Logistically, it’s not gonna be possible. And she drafted up letters for local businesses and rallied support and I was blown away by it all and we found this cool win-win-win scenario and I’m going back to Boise as a result. So you really are very persistent and I applaud you on it and hope that that’s something you carry forward for the rest of your life.

Sam Demma
You mentioned you’re not in college yet or have a degree, but you’ve had so much experience working with young people. When it comes to building relationships with students and youth, that’s what every teacher wants to do.

Callie Sue
What do you think is most important? I think I have a twin brother, because some people don’t know that about me. We are very, very opposite. Like I am the one that wants to go, go, go and keep trying. He’s like, no problem, I’m just giving up. So I think people mistake him to be me. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, I’m Kallie Sue. I’m not him. I love him, he’s my brother. But I want to be different. And so my teacher, cause she both of us are in her class, she’s like, what is, you get to think like, yeah, we’re twins.

Callie Sue
But I think her connecting with me and seeing that I could do more is what I wanted to do for little children. A lot of little kids, this is like teacher language. If you have a kid that’s like a problem child or like a challenging behavior, people just give up. And they want to say, no, if I can’t teach this classroom, I don’t want to do it. I can’t continue being a teacher in here. I say, no, I’ll go in there and I’ll do it. Because you can’t give up on a child. They just need help. Every form of behavior is a way of communicating something. People don’t see it like that. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, look at it. Maybe because the teacher in there hasn’t been consistent enough with whatever they’re doing. It’s a fallout on what you shouldn’t you’re not doing and that’s what they’re reacting in that way But some people tell me I’m just crazy and I know nothing But I’m like, no, no, no, like look at it like the situation like it’s not I Know I go on but when I talked about my workshop, I taught my boss That used to work for did love me talking about that because I’m just a kid. I was like, no, but I don’t want to be more than a kid. I want to be seen as someone that wants to help help your staff and wants to help those kids in that class because I love those kids and they’re not mine, but I love them. And I don’t want to be seen as like a threat. I want to be seen as a teacher that just wants to help somebody. And that’s why I think like having the change and not giving up is what I am fond of or what I usually try to aim for because that’s what children deserve and that’s what like adults deserve too is like to not be giving up on.

Sam Demma
You’re gonna make such a big contribution to so many young people, I can already feel it.

Callie Sue
I wanna teach kindergarten one day. High schoolers in me and I’m not a fan of high school. And at kindergarten, like that age is just beautiful and they’re learning how to be a big kid. And I just love that, because I loved being a big kid when I was little, like getting into elementary school and seeing what I could do with what I want, like what stuff I could pick that day or what my friends I saw, just being a part of that is what I want to inspire and change.

Sam Demma
Something I have to share with a lot of my friends and younger people in my life is that age doesn’t determine ability. Sometimes it does, but for example, you could have a 60-year-old person who’s never taken a professional photo in their life and a 13-year-old student who’s been taking photos with a professional camera for two years. This young person who’s been taking photos for two years has more experience with professional photography than the 60 year old. Just because you have age doesn’t mean you have experience with something.

Sam Demma
You can be a young person obsessed with helping young people and be more obsessed with that than someone twice your age. And just because you are younger, it doesn’t mean your input, your insights, your ideas aren’t valuable. So never forget that. I think you’re going to make a big impact.

Callie Sue
I think that’s why I love FCC so much is because I get to make decisions. I get to be a part of that and say things. Like we just picked our gifts, everyone gets it. Like at a conference, like I got to be a part of that. And it’s like just making little decisions to put like our conference together and to put like a lesson plan, what I want to put together, like you’re just like being a part of that. And then she said like let me be a leader and like I have people like this one on my team now that ran because of me. Like she ran because she saw me at BASIC and teach a conference and a workshop about communication. Like that to me, just like okay, like I’m doing something right. I’m not, I’m not feeling, I’m not stupid, I’m not dumb, I’m doing something right. That touched her and said, I can be an officer just like how I do.

Sam Demma
Wow, you know, you’re balancing a lot. School responsibilities, FCCLA responsibilities, other things in life. There’s a teacher listening to this doing the same. Balancing teaching, balancing extracurricular activities, balancing life at home.

Sam Demma
Sometimes they get extremely overwhelmed and a little bit burnt out. And I’m sure you’ve had that experience at some point in your life. What advice do you have for teachers who might be going through that? Take it a day at a time.

Callie Sue
My person, like my boyfriend is terrible at managing everything. He just wants to break down and cry. And I’m like, okay, I’m like, okay. Like I had two binders for my class, for my SDS class. I’m like, okay, one day at a time. I’m really good at making like a list of what I need to do right now. And then other things they’ll just fall. They will just fall into your day. If you’re up till 1am that’s okay. I don’t recommend that because you need sleep. But take it a day at a time and it will all go the way you want it to. It may seem crazy. You may want to cry for five minutes to ten minutes but then make a list and realize what you need to do right now what’s most important for you or your students that day and then everything else would just fall into place. Where did you get all this wisdom from at such a young age? Because I’ve done a lot because I um I think I taught me a lot of that. I think I taught me time management when I have a deadline that I have to meet and I’m in a set deadline, I’m like, oh, okay, I need to do that. And then I’m a daughter and a sibling and a girlfriend and a friend and a peer and a teacher at my work. And it’s just, I used to laugh at my mom a lot. Maybe when you meet my mom, you’ll learn how I act. But she has shown me to never give up. And that’s, I think, where I get it all from because you give up and you’re saying that, that you’re weak, I guess in a way, or that you, not weak is not the right word, but if you give up, you’re letting whatever’s in front of you become way too big of it needs to be. And don’t let don’t want to be a cloud over your head. Just keep going. The rain cloud will go behind you and it’s okay.

Sam Demma
One of my friends always told me the worst time to stop is in the middle of the storm. If you’re going through a storm, don’t stop, keep going to get to the other side of it, you know?

Sam Demma
And it sounds like that’s been a common theme throughout your life. I’m curious, when you think of other caring adults who’ve had a big impact on you, it sounds like your mom has been foundational. Who else has had a big impact and what specifically did they do for you?

Callie Sue
Right now I’m in an early childhood class at Moravian High School. I’m going to get my CDA and her name is Miss Phillips and I have known Miss Phillips since I was a baby freshman and I met her when I ran for state officer as well and I’d become her student. That’s where I bug her and she’s annoyed at me because I went to her so much now but um before I ran for state president I called her bawling my eyes out crying because I didn’t think I could do it I didn’t have the support really from the people that I wanted to have support from and I was told that I can’t do it and I’m gonna fail and I can’t juggle at all I said no no no okay so I called myself I was at Hobby Lobby doing something and I called her. I called her crying and I said, tell me I can do it. Tell me that I’m not gonna fail. I need someone to tell me that I’m not crazy. And she’s like, why are you so nervous? Because I’m just doubting what people told me and I’m doubting that I can’t do it. Because I just can’t, I want to be a state president. I cannot, that’s crazy to me. And she just listened to me and she told me that it was okay to cry and it’s okay to think about it if I chose to not run for state president, but She just listened to me. I guess was the answer to that question and she never told me like yep, you’re crazy Yep, you’re gonna fail She said you may fail and that’s okay, but it’s okay to fail. It’s okay to have a day where you are Off for your late on a deadline. It’s okay, but you can do it. And I left Hobby Lobby and sent my application in and then I went to the office and got picked for state president and here I am.

Sam Demma
One of my favorite quotes from Denzel Washington, Matthew McConaughey, there’s a few people who have said it, is that failure is the feedback you need to get closer to the goal you’re trying to achieve. And if you look at it from that perspective, it’s not a failure, it’s a stepping stone in the right direction. And without any failure, it’s unlikely you’ve ever tried. If you’re not trying, you’re not failing. If you’re trying, at some point, you’re gonna have feedback. I think it’s so important that we all keep that in mind. This advisor, Ms. Phillips, does she know how much of an impact she’s made on you?

Callie Sue
She does. I probably, I don’t tell her it enough, but I see her every other day when I’m in class and I always say I love you and she said I love you too, Callie Sue, because that to me shows that she knows just how much effect that the fact that I’ve made on her and she’s made on me. She doesn’t know a time that um some of her students are running for state officer actually this year and she goes I told them I want them I want them to beat you. They need to look up to you, Kaisu. I’m like no no no, that’s a good idea. Like like they’re gonna be like the next Kaisu like reaching for the sky like there’s no limit because that’s what you do and I’m like oh thank you. So she knows I’m gonna give her something for family year because I adore her and she never ever gives up on anybody and that’s that’s really how I love her kids too, she’s a good kid either. That’s what she’s like is a teacher for her, is what she’s offered and so she never gets, she has all these ideas of what it means to be a teacher and I just love that she never gives up on us as like an adult, a young adult or a preschooler that’s having a behavior problem.

Sam Demma
What I’m taking from this interview, especially from the perspective of an educator, is that sometimes the people in your classroom that are being impacted by your words and actions, your students, will tell you. Sometimes they might not, you know. You said, you know, maybe you don’t tell her as much as you should. And there’s some educators listening who don’t maybe all the time hear how much of an impact they’re having on their students, but it doesn’t mean the impact’s not there. I’m also taking away this idea of never giving up in all aspects of life, because the challenge that shows up, you don’t wanna give it power over you. You don’t wanna allow it to, you don’t want it to allow, you don’t wanna allow it to change the way you choose to proceed. I’m taking this idea away of shooting from the stars and recognizing that things may be difficult in the moment, but don’t stop then. You know, get through the other side of it.

Sam Demma
Take it day by day. Control what you can control. Is there anything else you’d want to say to any student or educator listening? This has been such a lovely conversation.

Callie Sue
You will get there. You may have some dream, make it your reality. My dream is to be a teacher one day and I just got enrolled in college to be a teacher. So never ever give up for the stars like you said and If you cry, that’s okay. It’s okay to cry for five minutes, but keep going and don’t ever give up.

Sam Demma
Cali Sue, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast here today.

Callie Sue
Of course.

Sam Demma
I’ll see you in Boise.

Callie Sue
Oh my gosh, yes I will, bye.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Callie Sue Costello

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Janis Volker – School Counselor at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School

Janis Volker - School Counselor at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School
About Janis Volker

Janis Volker is the School Counselor for grades 6-12 at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School. She started in the district in 2004 as the elementary counselor and spent 4 years at Roselawn Elementary School. In September 2008 she transitioned to the high school/middle school, making this her 21st year in the district. Prior to entering education she was a program coordinator for Barron County Restorative Justice for two years. That experience working with law enforcement, schools, and community members was a wonderful foundation to school counseling. She felt honored to be present with victims and offenders that worked to heal the harm that was caused.

In the high school/middle school she has many roles that support students, including the coordination of the Early College Credit, Advanced Placement, Start College Now, and Youth Apprenticeship programs. On a daily basis she is assisting students with their academic and career planning, college applications, scholarships, and providing individual counseling and SEL classroom instruction. She coordinates the ASVAB Career Exploration program and the PSAT/NMSQT, as well as assisting with the proctoring of state assessments. Behind every successful program and initiative at school is a team that works together to get everything accomplished. No one does it alone.

Advising students on their next steps and encouraging them to explore dual credit courses to earn college credits in high school are some of her favorite experiences working with students. Seeing the growth, both academically and socially, from year to year and celebrating them as they cross the stage at graduation; are some of the most rewarding days. She is proud to work in her district that is so supportive of students, families, and staff. 

Connect with Janis Volker: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School

Roselawn Elementary School

Barron County Restorative Justice

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam, and today we are joined by Janis Volker. Janis has been in education and counseling for a total of 21 years. She has worked in the middle school age bracket, the high school age bracket, and the elementary school age bracket. Janis and I will cross paths here shortly in her school district.

Sam Demma
And I’m so grateful that before I had the opportunity to chat with her. Janis, welcome to the show and thank you so much for being here.

Janis Volker
Good morning, thank you for having me.

Sam Demma
Tell us a little bit about what got you into education and wanting to support young people.

Janis Volker
Well, way back in high school, I thought I was going to be a college professor and I just had that in my mind, I’m going to be a teacher. And then I started off in college and, you know, I had a rough start. And I was once told, I don’t think your grades are going to get you into that school of education. And that really hit me hard.

Janis Volker
And it was a little bit of a wake-up call that this is serious. This is like, this is all counting, you know, I need to really figure myself out. And then I found my path down psychology and loved psychology. And that was my first degree. And then in my senior year, I discovered, oh, wow, this whole world of if I continue and get a master’s degree, I could actually work with students and help them in a way that I wanted to. And that’s how I discovered school counseling.

Sam Demma
What about psychology intrigued you?

Janis Volker
Well, I have to be honest. I think it was a lot of figuring out myself and my family and the dynamics and then also just being able to help other people. I found it fascinating, all the different theories, you know, psychotherapy. And I knew I didn’t necessarily want to do that, but I just wanted to be around students. But I didn’t think I wanted to teach.

Janis Volker
And so that’s how I found my way into the education system.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you married the best of both worlds. Work with young people, fulfill that love for psychology and supporting them with it. Tell me a little bit about after the psychology education, what happened next?

Janis Volker
I actually first started in school psychology and after just one term of it, had to do a shadowing experience with a school counselor. She was at the elementary level and I just loved her job. I thought it was, wow, look at her. She’s sitting on the floor with these stuffed animals talking to kids about their feelings. It was like, this is so much fun. And so I did that switch to school counseling right away in the program.

Janis Volker
But I think it was, you know, just, I didn’t realize when I first started college in psychology that I couldn’t probably get in front of people and help people unless I continued my education. Like the opportunities were more limited. So that’s why I decided to continue on. And I kept going. Took me a while because in that time I also was married and then became a mom myself and so didn’t take a direct path through college.

Sam Demma
Did you have a counselor in middle, high, or college that really supported you through your own transition or challenges?

Janis Volker
I definitely had people that supported me but I wasn’t one that would go and seek out help myself. So I didn’t really have that experience other than like helping with scheduling and talking about college visits and things like that. But it was a teacher of mine, a professor in my undergraduate that taught us all these career opportunities. And I think without him, I don’t know that I would have kept going. I was really thankful that he shared that with us before we graduated.

Sam Demma
You and I are very alike in the sense that we sometimes don’t go out of our way to seek the help we might need in the moment we need it. And I would argue that’s most people because of a stigma and a fear. And it may even be most students in a school building. Are there any signs or signals of distress that you look for in students to recognize if someone might need some help but are a little bit afraid to ask for it?

Janis Volker
Yes, I think there’s lots of clues. When you, as an observer, just see, you know, when someone’s going down the hallway, are they talking with other people? Are they really by themselves? You know, at lunchtime, are they with a group of friends? Are they off in a corner on their phone? Are things going on in their life that you know about, but they’re not seeking help? Have they had death in their family, repeated other kind of challenges? And then grades are a big clue.

Janis Volker
All of a sudden you see a dip, or maybe you’re not going out for the sport you always used to get involved in and things like that. So I think as long as it doesn’t have to be the school counselor that reaches out, just any adult in the building that makes connections with students. Sometimes that’s the favorite person, the person who’s doing attendance in the main office. That’s their person that they connect with, that just says good morning every single day.

Sam Demma
I had a guidance counselor who supported me in all my post-secondary applications for college and university in the United States. We were trying to figure out the eligibility requirements as a Canadian who wanted to do a Division I scholarship in the United States. And she became someone that I felt very comfortable sharing things with over my high school experience. I know that oftentimes the administrator’s office or the guidance counselor’s office can be a little bit intimidating for a young person when they walk in the door. What are some ways you help calm people down and just let them know that they’re here to be supported and it is a safe space?

Janis Volker
You know, I think I have a friendly face, right? I like to smile, I like to laugh, but my first three words are usually, when a student walks in, “You’re not in trouble.”

Janis Volker
There’s this fear of, I got called to the office and I say, you know, we do a lot of things in here. We help with your schedule. You know, we talk about college. We talk about youth apprenticeships. Like, I don’t just call people in to say there’s a problem or there’s, you know, a concern. So just trying to, you know, get to know students in different ways in the building. So to make that connection that, you know, you have to do those conversations sometimes

Janis Volker
about dress code, and then you get that reputation. She’s going to tell you you’re wearing the wrong kind of shirt today.

Sam Demma
I just remember situations when I was in school and I got called down from class at the office and I was like, oh man, this is gonna be bad. I think that’s a really good way to start the conversation just to let a student know, you’re not in trouble, we’re here to help.

Sam Demma
How do you think you build a connection with a student to the point where they really look forward to chatting with you and trust the advice or trust the guidance?

Janis Volker
I always, I mean, I’m more of an introvert to be honest. So I’m not that person that’s out there, like the super fun cheerleader, but I’m more the quiet, always supportive, always there to listen and really ask you questions about, you know, your day or your struggles. Or I like to remember certain things about a student that I can bring up the next year. You know, like I remember this when we were in seventh grade

Janis Volker
and you were talking about the careers and you said you wanted to go into welding. You know, and then I see them pursue that as they get older in high school and comment on that, you know, so that they know I’m listening, I’m aware. You know, I wish I could do that more

Janis Volker
with every single person in the building, but I think that’s really, students really, really want to be cared for. That’s, I mean, don’t we all, but it’s really important.

Sam Demma
You must have a long list of notes from all these conversations.

Janis Volker
I do, yeah, somewhere in my head, but. And at this age, sometimes they lose us, but yeah. I think the intent to remember

Sam Demma
is already a phenomenal start. It forces us to, creates a forcing function for us to pay more attention when people are talking to us, as opposed to thinking about the past or the future, which is so easy these days. Question for you, do you, or can you share a story

Sam Demma
of a student who walked into the office that was very confused, very uncertain, very overwhelmed, and after a couple years and some guidance, you just were so proud of the young person they became. And you don’t have to share their name. And the reason I ask is because

Sam Demma
there’s an educator listening to this that may be a little bit overwhelmed, or even a guidance counselor that may be a little overwhelmed, and they may have lost sight as to why they do what they do and I think that these little stories of

Sam Demma
transformation are really at the heart of why most people get into the work

Janis Volker
They do with young people. So sure. So someone comes to mind a young man who really dealt with mental health and had a lot of family struggles a lot of there was a lot of death in the family. Just you know, there was poverty. There was a little bit of everything. And he missed a lot of school.

Janis Volker
And he would have moments where he just needed to take a break from class or he wouldn’t come to school just feeling overwhelmed. And I never felt like I was making a difference because when you’re listening, I always feel in their mind, they must be thinking, I still feel just as anxious or I still have this depression like things are, I mean, things progress much slower than we all want them to.

Janis Volker
But then his senior year, he, I got a letter from him. It was a really cool activity where the seniors get to pass out letters of people that they want to thank before they graduate. And when I received that, it was one of the most meaningful things, you know, in my career. Like, wow, because I’m not I’m not in front of students as much and more in this office. I try to be out and about, but I mean, teachers, I feel, get to build those connections on a deeper level with every student than maybe I do. And it just it meant the world to me that that I was able to help and that he recognized that.

Sam Demma
I just think about all the students who have walked in your office whose lives you’ve had an impact on but who haven’t written a letter. That’s what we hope. Yeah, that’s the… It’s so funny, I did a performance last week for a high school and the audio system was not great and they swapped out four mics in the first 30 minutes.

Sam Demma
I feel like the first 30 minutes, people didn’t even hear what I was saying. And we finished the performance and we had a good number of students still rush on over and ask questions and thank us and take photos. And in my heart, I was like,

Sam Demma
I could have reached more, you know, like this was a waste, we didn’t make a difference. And this one, like the setup was not great. And then, you know, we got home and the cameraman who was with me, Matias, was like, dude, there was a couple of students that I saw who were absolutely glued and locked in despite the audio challenges. I promise you it reached some young minds. And that’s all that matters, even if they hadn’t written that letter or written that message.

Sam Demma
And just this morning, it’s been a week, I got a message from a student that was like, hey, you came to the school last week and I just wanna let you know, our friends really enjoyed it and I was like, if this ain’t the universe, just like let me know.

Sam Demma
You know, like, stop being so critical and stop judging how other people are receiving it. Just show up and do your best. Like I think that’s something that I’ve tried to carry forward with me in everything that I do. Have you ever had any moments in your work where you questioned if like, oh, is this the right work for me to be doing? And if so, how did you get through some of those

Janis Volker
Moments? Yeah, I mean, definitely the mental health piece takes a toll. And I don’t know that I’m the best at self-care. I, you know, I can tell people like, oh, you need to do this and you should be exercising and a great diet. Make sure you get out in nature. And I’ve improved in that area by developing my own hobby of photography. That became something that I felt like just relieved stress like nothing else to just be outside and at sunrise. That’s all I need really to feel better. So I think just trying to be self-aware of you need, if I ever hit that point where I’m burned out, I need to release myself because you’re not helping anyone once you reach burnout. So I guess that’s something I always think about because I have thought about, well, what would I do if I did something else?

Janis Volker
And I still think it’d be helping people. It would just be in a different scene, maybe healthcare or something, but that’s always what I want to do.

Sam Demma
Was photography something you discovered earlier in your childhood or when did that come about for you?

Janis Volker
Just being in the house and I just started observing that stay at home order we had for a few months that first spring. And so I was working from home and at the dining table and I was surrounded by windows and I thought, all these birds come to my house during the day when I’m not here. Like, wow, this is really cool. And then I just, it kind of created this, you know, interest of mine, curiosity.

Janis Volker
And then I started taking pictures and then I kept getting different cameras and then I was hooked. And then I was taking pictures every single day. So it’s, yeah.

Sam Demma
A pipe recently burst in our basement bathroom and my dad had his friend, a subcontractor named Jimmy come over to fix it. And while we were in the bathroom, I was handing him tools, he was fixing it. He started telling me about the books he had bought that morning. Did you know that you can go to a thrift store and buy a book for 50 cents? I was like, yeah, I know, I know, because I used to buy a bunch from Value Village, and he’s like, Sam, I bought seven books for $3.

Sam Demma
I was like, this is awesome, man, I’m so glad you’re excited about books. And he told me about this one book called Who Moved My Cheese by a guy named Kenneth Blanchard and he’s a business slash management author and he gave me a very high level overview of the book that there’s these two mice and one is always waiting for the cheese and the other one is always like searching for it. And that to remain curious and to keep searching for things in life is such a beautiful way to live. And you said one of the things you realized from the book is that the mice that would wait for it just live the same life over and over again. Like everything about their day was exactly the same. Whereas the mouse that was searching or curious would take different paths and try, find the cheese down different roads.

Sam Demma
And isn’t that interesting? Like COVID changed up your routine. And instead of going to work, you stayed home. As a result, you saw these beautiful birds out the window and boom, a new passion for photography came to life. I think that remaining curious is so important, not only for students, but everybody. Trying the new restaurant, taking the different route home, looking out the window and pausing for a moment. I developed some passions during the pandemic. I’m curious, like, has photography remained a part of your life?

Sam Demma
Oh, yes. Do you take a lot of pictures? Like, tell me a little bit about it

Janis Volker
Yes, I do. And the last year I haven’t as much, which is funny, that the more I tried to get into selling it, the less I actually did it. And so that was a really good lesson of, wait, you need to keep that focus on your enjoyment, like what you, what relieves the stress, which is the whole point, you know, to have something so fun. And that what I like about photography is there’s, there’s no two sunrises that are identical, like everything.

Janis Volker
There’s just no two pictures are going to look the same, just because of all the different components. And that’s the same way I love my job here is you can never predict a day in the school. And it just keeps it kind of fresh, even though it’s the same office every day, it’s very different from day to day.

Sam Demma
In your 21 year career in education, have there been any colleagues or teachers who have walked into your office and said, hey Janis, can I ask you a question? Looking for guidance.

Janis Volker
Yeah, definitely. Especially, you know, with the loss. And loss by suicide is one that when we’re growing up, we don’t really, you know, it’s something that’s not really talked about. And people don’t feel comfortable asking someone when they’ve experienced that loss. You know, people tend to avoid the really uncomfortable conversations. So when someone’s experiencing that in their family for the first time, no matter the age, you need help. You need support. So I know definitely those are times too. And just we’re struggling with, you know, just having a rough time either in school or out of school just needing someone to listen?

Sam Demma
I ask because when we were all little babies, we very openly accepted failure and recognized it as a necessary thing. How many times will a baby fail before it learns to walk? As many times as it takes and we’ll cheer them on all the way.

Sam Demma
But then at a certain age, a child starts to believe that it’s not acceptable to make a mistake. It’s not acceptable to fail. And then I think as that child grows up and becomes an adult, there’s another unconscious belief that we start to carry that we can handle things on our own because we’re now big people.

Sam Demma
And it’s like, it’s okay to reach out for support and ask for help. And I just hope that if there’s an educator listening to this right now who’s struggling, that this little portion of this conversation encourages them to reach out and ask for it.

Sam Demma
So I appreciate you sharing that.

Janis Volker
Yes, thank you.

Sam Demma
If there is an educator listening to this or even a student and they are a little overwhelmed, what words of advice or encouragement would you offer them?

Janis Volker
I think, you know, it’s kind of, everyone says this, but chunking it out like one piece at a time, one day at a time. Let’s just focus on today. You know, what can you do today to relieve that stress? You know, can I can you get some help talking to the teacher that you need some help with that you don’t understand the assignment?

Janis Volker
Is there is there another student I can get, you know, to help you? Maybe we do need to call your mom right now and have this conversation and get this off your chest or sit down with a friend. I think just whatever you can do in this moment and not worry about fixing everything between now and three months from now. Let’s just get through today.

Sam Demma
Yeah, that’s a great way to look at it. If there is an educator listening to this and they just want to ask you a question or reach out, what would be the best way for them to get in touch or connect with you?

Janis Volker
Oh, I would say, you know, my school email, right? My school phone, hopefully those are all published on our website and that’d be great.

Sam Demma
Awesome. Jan, just keep taking photos.

Janis Volker
I Will. And you know, I wanted to tell you, I did just read your book and I think it’s fantastic. And one part that really stuck out for me was when you talked about for students, the five people that you surround yourself with. I was like, wow, that I really like how, because that is so true. We’re not saying you’re all going to make bad choices, but if the group you’re with is not doing things like you said to build you up, then they’re not, they’re not helping you get to your goal. So I appreciate you for sharing those types of tips because even though I’ve been in this business 21 years, I can always still learn and find new ways to help students.

Sam Demma
Well thank you for reading the book. You can’t get it at the thrift store for 50 cents unless someone drops it off there, so please don’t. I appreciate you taking the time to be here. I appreciate you reading the book. And I appreciate all the effort and energy you place into helping people, whether it’s teachers or students.

Sam Demma
You are making a serious difference. And I look forward to meeting you here soon.

Janis Volker
Yes, thank you. Two months, we get to see you in person here.

Sam Demma
I’m counting it down. All right, Janis, keep up the great work. And we’ll talk soon. And we’ll talk soon.

Janis Volker
Thanks, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Janis Volker

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Lynne Beck – Principal at Diamond Jenness Secondary School

Lynne Beck – Principal at Diamond Jenness Secondary School
About Lynne Beck

Lynne Beck fell in love with the North, its people, and the unique lifestyle it offers when she first arrived in the Northwest Territories in 1992. She initially came to the western NWT to offer short-term swimming and canoeing programs in the Tlicho & South Slave regions. After completing her Bachelor of Education at the University of Prince Edward Island, she was drawn back to the North in the spring of 1993, where she returned to Fort Resolution to establish a long-term swimming and canoeing program and stayed on as an Adult Education teacher.

Her journey in education continued when she moved to Hay River in 1994 to work with Aurora College in Adult Education. In 1998, Lynne joined Diamond Jenness Secondary School (DJSS), where she has held various roles, including Junior and Senior High Teacher, Program Support Teacher, Vice Principal, Guidance Counsellor, Academic Advisor, and ultimately Principal since 2014.

Lynne’s dedication to nurturing the next generation is deeply influenced by her mentor, Ainsley Rose, who emphasized that everything educators do should focus on maximizing student learning and that hope means “helping other people excel.” As a mother who raised her children in Hay River, Lynne sees her legacy not only in her professional roles but in the way she has shaped and influenced her family and the students that she and her dedicated staff have the honour of educating.

Lynne’s love for the North continues to shape her work, as she is committed to making a difference in the lives of students and the community she calls home.

Connect with Lynne Beck: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

University of Prince Edward Island

Aurora College

Diamond Jenness Secondary School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam. And today we are joined by someone I met six months ago, seven months ago over a Zoom call that was supposed to be 30 minutes and lasted an hour for our joint passion for education and young people and making a difference. Today’s guest is my new friend, Lynn Beck, the principal of Diamond Genesse Secondary School. Lynn, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Lynne Beck
Well, thanks for having me.

Sam Demma
Do me a favor, take a moment to introduce yourself and share who you are and what got you into education. Oh, okay.

Lynne Beck
Well, this is, I actually started in recreation. I did waterfront programming back in, I don’t know, let me date myself here, I guess that would have been starting in around 1992, I guess, if I do my northern journey. Prior to that, I heard about the Canadian North. It had always been, with my water, my love of the ocean, always had been a dream of mine to be able to swim in the Atlantic, the Pacific, as well as the Arctic Ocean. I am very happy to say that I made that happen as coming up to the territories. What got me into education? I think partly by chance, definitely, and I’m very much, I did a sort of a work checklist, like what would make you happy one time, and it was like an inventory and what came out of it for me was that challenging renewal drives me. Like that’s my key motivator in my life. So when I look back or I reflect on things as I’m entering, this is my, I guess officially I started in 93 in Port Resolution, Moved to Hay River, or the Hatlodichay Territory, in the end of 1994. Started in adult education and then loved it, absolutely loved it, but didn’t want to not experience working with youth in an educational setting and not just a recreation setting. So, yeah, I feel like I’m all over the place. I can’t keep my head on one question for you.

Sam Demma
But your passion for education has kept you working in it over an extended period of time. It sounds like you found it a little bit by chance, a little bit by design. What keeps you working in education though? What’s the why behind your work?

Lynne Beck
The why behind my work, I would have to say, is an opportunity to accomplish something that’s more than simply what I do. To have an influence, it’s not even as much as an influence as it is to help support others to find their voice. I would have to say that I didn’t, I can honestly say I did not have a voice when I was in school. When I went through the school system, did not have a voice. I was certainly not the perfect student. Shout out to all of those poor people who had to educate me back in the day. I’ll not say where. But yeah, I’ve heard it said that from a parent’s perspective, that the most important thing we ever accomplish is not what we do, but what our children are able to do. kids, but for other kids. And sometimes it’s easier to bring those things out in other people’s children than it is your own. And having had a couple of my own, I now understand that. I believe that our circumstances determine where we start, but our philosophy, our support determines where we finish.

Sam Demma
And you’ve had some incredible stories of success come out of Diamond, the school community. When you think of some of the stories of student success, without sharing a name, is there any that come to mind, you can even change their name if it’s a story that’s a little personal, but I ask because a lot of people listening to this are in education because they want to support and serve and amplify young people. I think it may just remind someone why they got into that work in the first place if they hear about some of the impact. Yeah, it’s tough. Even

Lynne Beck
changing names is tough. So when I think about that… From a high level without a specific story. Yeah, from a high level. Okay, so I think one of the things that kept us speaking a little bit longer than our anticipated, you know, 20 minutes, half an hour, was probably a statement something like this. From 2022 to early 24, our community was evacuated full, slate, full on, community evacuation three times within a 15-month period. And despite that, we had students complete their high school requirements for graduation, in addition to being able to be accepted into Southern institutions and in a small Northern community. When students are accepted into Southern institutions with scholarships and into some amazing programs as well as are also able to go into trades opportunities and when our community, when communities get destroyed, you realize how important trades people are. They literally, without them, we wouldn’t have our homes, we wouldn’t have the infrastructure and the things that keep us warm on days like today where it’s minus 45 with the windchill and vehicles are, you know, vehicles and plumbing and all of those kinds of things still need to operate. So, guide me back to the question.

Sam Demma
When you think of some success stories as a result of education, are there any that come to mind that may inspire a listener who is really getting into this work because they want to help people. I think the fact that there was a collective graduation at the school is exceptional. I’m curious to know, like what do you think contributed to that success despite the setbacks? The team, being acknowledged,

Lynne Beck
students having an opportunity regardless of the cards that they have been dealt, whether it be as a collective, as a community, or even personally, having an opportunity or having someone notice that they have gifts, they have value, helping them find their voice. And watching that, being able to watch someone. We’re an eight to 12 school, so being able to watch, you know, that very young, often timid, a little bit scary, it’s the high school, like everyone’s afraid of high school, right? Trying to get substitute teachers to come in the building. It’s watching that progression from being that shy, timid, doesn’t know, afraid to walk across what we call our concourse and am I wearing the right clothes? Am I doing the right thing? Are people, am I going to be accepted? And then later on and as they progress, am I going to be accepted for who I am? And then before they graduate, am I going to be accepted for what I become and where I go and come back. Like it’s being part of what many people, I believe, that are in education have had the experience of having someone notice them or notice the good in them, because we’re really good at being self-critical, even at a very young age. How do you acknowledge somebody as an educator?

Sam Demma
How do you acknowledge a student in a way that affirms them? And everyone is different, so maybe it’s not a one solution fits all answer, but have you seen it done that you think other educators may be able to replicate? You notice everything and you accept everything, especially the mistakes.

Lynne Beck
We have got to in education, and that’s one thing as a team I feel we do a really good job here. You have got to move beyond the, you know, the teacher is all-knowing, the teacher is perfect, our systems are perfect. We are a human system built for human beings, and human systems and human beings have to make mistakes. We are programmed to make mistakes. Just like, or I guess equally important to that is we’re programmed to learn from our mistakes. And if we don’t learn from our mistakes, we will repeat those mistakes. And so being someone to help stop that cycle of mistake-making and open up to the possibilities that there might be a different way of doing things that works better. I mean, there’s some common speeches that some of my kids, generationally now, have had to listen to, and it’s, you know, is that working for you? Did that work? What about trying this next time? Restorative practices, actually, are the one thing for myself because in all honesty when I started in administration back in 2008 Hey, I wasn’t necessarily wanting to do that Like who really wants to be the VP of any high school? Did you know you’re the one in charge of discipline? Not like it’s a rodeo that I I didn’t have Really a whole lot of desire to do my kids were you know, baby kids back then. But anyway, that was the position I took. That was the challenge that I decided to take on at that time. And in that first year, that was probably one of the lowest points in my career. And not because of who I worked with or the kids I worked with or where I was, But it was the role that had been established that had been done that way for years. And at the end of the year, the thing that stood out for me and that I knew I had to change, that was 2007-8 actually. So it ended in the spring of 2008. I reflected and said, if I can’t do things differently, I want to I’m not doing this again. So, and the reason for that is that the thing I will never forget is a staff that I own because I did it, so I’m not gonna blame anyone else, but I had 417 and a half suspension days signed by me. So, 417 days and I was only one of two VPs at the time and the principal also did some suspensions as well. So I don’t know the collective. I only gathered those stats on myself and I said, I can’t do it. I won’t do it. We’re supposed to be about educating students, not reminding them why they don’t deserve to be here. That is not helping them find their voice. That is not…

Lynne Beck
I don’t know. There’s a whole… We could do a whole podcast on, actually, we could do months of podcast time on the de-implementation of things within the school system. We spend a lot of time talking about the latest and greatest, and there’s all kinds of books published by all kinds of wonderful companies, and it’s fantastic. But that de-implementation, in my opinion, is just as important as implementing new things. But coming back to the restorative practice piece, which also leads to one of my biggest mistakes, because when I started that process, I worked with a UCAN organization who had done a lot of work with the United Nations. They were located in Ontario. I ended up doing a student exchange and all kinds of things to try to have kids that had been experienced, you know, that type of thinking, instead of getting away from, you did, therefore you’re punished before you’re able to come back. It kind of, we started what we thought was restorative when we really looked at the term restitution is still not allowing the two parties to regain their dignity. Restorative practice allows both parties. You need to have willing participants and you need to have… It takes a lot of time. However, the investment in doing that Doing that allows people to accept the fact that we are programmed to make mistakes and learn from them.

Sam Demma
And it makes it okay. What is the big difference between a restorative practice and just restitution, as you mentioned?

Lynne Beck
Restitution focuses on the person who did the wrong to come up with a plan or a way way by which they do something and that thing doesn’t necessarily have to be with another person. It can be, I’m going to shovel the sidewalks of the school, you know, those kinds of things. It’s not about repairing the relationship and not all relationships are meant to be friends, but to do that in a way that respects both of your rights to be in this building and to be educated, maybe sometimes even in the same class, and not to be friends. Learning to be friends and to not be friends is really, really important. It’s a skill and I believe they’re equally important.

Sam Demma
I remember when I was in grade seven, I dared a friend of mine to do something inappropriate to a classmate of ours. And he did it and didn’t tell the principal that I dared him to do it and it was my idea. So he got suspended. I went home. Fortunately, my parents tried their best to instill some good values in me So I felt this inner turmoil and I sat on my bed started bawling my eyes out My dad gets home from work walks past my bedroom does a double take Is everything okay? I Tell him the truth. He’s like get in the car. We drove back to school sat in my principal’s office. Mr. O’Neill told him the truth and he and he asked me a ton of reflective questions. And then he invited the young lady, Michaela, into the office to have a conversation with both of us. And he actually ended up giving me an in-school suspension and keeping it off of my official record. And I’ll never forget that moment. And if I think back at that experience, and I think if my dad had an adverse reaction, if the principal had an extremely adverse reaction, I may have never learned the full lesson, but I did because of the way they handled it, because of the way they approached it. And it sounds very similar to what you just explained. So I didn’t really know too much about restorative practice, but Mr. O’Neill did use it with me.

Lynne Beck
That is, it’s fantastic because again you encourage kids to be human, to make mistakes. But, and it’s not about making the mistake, it’s about what you do with it when you make it. Do you own it? Are you going to learn from it? Are you going to move forward from it? If you’ve harmed someone, getting rid of that, that gross feeling in your gut when you know, like, it just doesn’t feel good doing something because even when we make mistakes and we’re the person in the wrong we need to restore our dignity and our our sense of Being in good balance being okay with ourselves. You don’t want to drag that behind you right you want to let that go and and Next time think before you dare your friend to do whatever it is. You did right like it’s um yeah I mean it it’s it’s beyond that message of you didn’t follow the rules you you don’t deserve to be here you are not good enough get out someone else is going to go fix you and then you come back to us I’m I’m I’m not going to at all diminish but I certainly can’t even begin to express the significant impact of the residential school system, of schools not only in Canada but certainly in the Northwest Territories. Their legacy is very much alive and there are many people who are still suffering the residual effects from that. And that you are not good enough message is something that I personally believe we still struggle, everyone struggles with that, but I think that that’s something because of the deliberateness of that system to essentially annihilate a culture, multi, many, many cultures, because Indigenous culture is vast and it’s very… Each one has its uniquenesses and deserves to be acknowledged individually. In the land that we sit on, it’s the Dene people, but even within that, there are many different groups of people here, where Dene FTA, Chippewyan, Cree, like we have a lot of different groups all within our community.

Sam Demma
I told you on our last conversation about some of my experiences in Kenya and how leading with this lens of curiosity rather than difference or judgment with a group of people I haven’t been exposed to in the past or met and had conversations with led to some beautiful experiences. And I am so excited to be visiting the school in May with an open mind, open heart and lots to learn. And I just want to let you know, I’m so excited about that. And it’s a privilege and I look forward to meeting you and everyone in the community. When you think about people in education who had a big impact on you, it sounds like your school journey was challenging in some regards, but are there any people in your life growing up or even after school that have had a massive impact? And if so, what did they do for you that shifted that belief about being good enough or just your own self-esteem.

Lynne Beck
I mean, there were many. And actually, it’s funny because it’s hard not to reflect and not think of those that certainly helped and those that didn’t. So I think A, being acknowledged. Being acknowledged as a human, not being ignored. Having someone, I guess, want to or make you feel as though they want you to to be there and go above and beyond to say to it to say hello good morning what are you thinking to do and later on or how was that class or it’s it’s it’s little things sometimes or hey you didn’t seem quite like yourself the other day you all right you know I just those little acknowledgments that can just make such a difference. And then collectively, there’s a lot of talk about teacher collective efficacy and that whole notion that I may not be, because I certainly am not the person that everyone can relate to or that I am able to meet the needs of or find whatever that thing is that we need to help someone move further along the line to meet their goals. But when we do it as a collective, someone is able to do that. Maybe it’s little pieces that come together that’s able to do that. Because some kids will take a little bit more than others to believe it, and that’s based on the cards that they’ve been dealt. And if we can help them, even sometimes when those cards are really tough cards to hold, if we can help them play those cards in the best possible way and have them believe that moving forward, they’re gonna be okay and that they are good enough, it’s incredible what can happen.

Lynne Beck
And we’ve seen. I remember moments in my life where

Sam Demma
believing in myself was the last thing I believed in and somebody else’s belief in me made all the difference. And I think that educators’ most important contribution, or any staff member in a school building, is not, the curriculum’s important, but it’s giving a child belief in themselves that they carry forward with them for the rest of their lives. I think that is by far the most important thing we can do. And not even just in schools, but in life in general. And my grandfather always used to say, leave things better than you found it. And if you did that, you lived a beautiful life. And I think it’s the same with people. And I got goosebumps while you were talking and sharing. And I appreciate you spending some time just talking a little bit about your educational journey and restorative practice and some of your beliefs around connecting with students and the importance of acknowledging them. And letting them know that it’s okay to make a mistake because we’re all human and not that it’s necessary Yeah Necessary yeah, right no no kid. You know watch what I don’t know we all we all get so afraid of mistakes

Lynne Beck
Yeah, but the reality is every little kid Watch them learn to walk watch them learn to talk watch them learn to do anything And then all of a sudden we get to that certain age. I don’t know what age it is and then all of a sudden So if you hide it and you pretend you didn’t do it or you try to whatever you’re just gonna do it over and over again until you accept that There’s a different or a better way and then you then if that and if you don’t get that Then unfortunately many people that that start start living with that shame and that guilt and all of those reasons why they turn to other things, sometimes it’s substances, there’s all kinds of things that people turn to, to mask that not being good enough, not being enough, being shameful, like all of those feelings that stand in the way of them developing their gift. We all have a gift. That’s one thing that I love, absolutely fell in love with in the North, is that Indigenous belief that everyone is inherently born with a gift. And it’s the duty of everyone that surrounds that child, because every child is a gift. But to surround that child, to allow those gifts to come through, right? And it’s, no one gift is more important than another. It’s a beautiful way of life. It also gives lots of hope and optimism

Lynne Beck
when you think about your own existence

Sam Demma
from that perspective. And if you’re not using it yet, you know it’s there and you’re still in that search to discover it. And I appreciate you sharing that. Do you have any parting words for an educator who may be listening to this a little bit burnt out, a little bit discouraged? Maybe there’s some challenges in their school building right now and they’re like, ah, what do I do then?

Lynne Beck
Oh, well, number one, I’ll be totally honest. Yesterday, driving back with a colleague, this was not me. We all, like challenge, we’re all being really, really challenged right now in education.
And whether we talk about cutbacks, or we talk about the things that are happening globally or you know there are there are so many reasons to kind of allow yourself to go down into that we call it a rabbit hole up here right where you get sucked into that negativity and I again by far far far from perfect as I have made so many mistakes it’s not even funny, but I’m doing my best not to repeat them. And so when I find myself going down into that rabbit hole, I remind myself, okay, you find what you look for. So if I’m telling myself I’m going to come back today and I’m going to find that negative thing or that negative person or that whatever, I’ll find it. But it’s looking for those little sunflower moments. And even sometimes, even within the people or the situations that are challenging you the most. And that’s really hard to do when it’s 45 below and really dark and da-da-da. when you really, really, really suck, just finding that outlet, whether it is a person, whether it is your dog.

Lynne Beck
My great Dane hears a lot of my problems. She doesn’t try to give me the solution. She just listens, and I do believe that we all have those answers within ourselves. We just have to get it out. I don’t know if that means getting it.

Sam Demma
Maybe that’s why we have unconditional love for our dogs, because they don’t chime in when we don’t want to hear anything.

Lynne Beck
And they don’t judge you, nothing. They keep really good people.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Lynn, this is such a lovely conversation. If someone wants to reach out and ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Lynne Beck
Probably email or phone call, because I am like, social media and I are just not, I’m just not, I don’t know, is it because I’m in my 50s? Is it because I see some challenges with social media You know up here. We talk about how kids have to Especially our indigenous students have to walk in two worlds well now with the with this whole social media Fake world where where again that that reinforcement of I’m not good enough. I just I just have a hard time Diving into that and and yeah, I don’t know I mean I get that AI is coming and I get that we need to embrace it and I get that That AI has the potential for for everyone to find their voice regardless of their level of education and it’s something that we need to To to to face head-on and to help students learn, but yeah, but in terms of reaching out best way Social social media no, but phone call or email, yes.

Sam Demma
I think that social media has attempted to make us more connected, but the result has been that we’re less connected and more glued to our phones. Email and phone call is my preferred way of communication too, so you don’t have to explain yourself at all. I will make sure that we just put your email in the show notes in case someone wants to reach out and ask a question. And until I see you in May, thank you so much, keep up the great work, and I’ll talk to you soon.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.