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Principals

Michelle Gauthier – Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board

Michelle Gauthier – Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board
About Michelle Gauthier

Michelle Gauthier is the Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board.  She has been an educator for 30 years in a variety of roles.  She began her teaching career as an ESL and Special Education teacher before completing a Master’s Degree in Counselling and beginning her work as a high school counsellor.  
Her experience supporting students with complex needs led her into administration where she continues to advocate to bring wellness, equity and inclusion to the forefront.  Michelle’s guiding principle remains that educators (administration, teachers, support staff – everyone in the building) must work to provide a safe, welcoming and inclusive environment where students feel loved and part of a community.  Once students feel cared for and safe, they are better prepared to take risks, embrace challenges, learn, and thrive.

As Principal, not only does Michelle make wellbeing and community building a priority for students but she also recognizes the importance of these for staff.  She works hard to ensure her staff feels supported and appreciated, providing an environment in which they feel inspired to bring their best to work each day.  Michelle is grateful for the opportunity to work with staff and students to create a community where young people can grow into their best selves.  She appreciates this privilege and recognizes the gift that she is given in her role as Principal.

Connect with Michelle Gauthier: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School

Ottawa Catholic School Board

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by Michelle Gauthier, the principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School. She is someone that I met, and I’m excited to have her back on the podcast, or have her on the podcast and see her again. Michelle, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Michelle Gauthier
All right.

Michelle Gauthier
Well, it’s good to see you again, Sam. I have to tell you, when you invited me to do this, I was really honored. When you came to Frank Ryan, I didn’t really know entirely what to expect, but your energy and the way you interacted with our students was so vibrant. And I just I feel really honored to be here today. So, yeah, I don’t I didn’t really know what to expect, but I’m really honored that you invited me.

Sam Demma
Well, the energy in your school was just as palpable for me. And there’s something special about the community you’ve cultivated with the staff and the students. What are some of the key values or characteristics you strive to embed within your school culture and community?

Michelle Gauthier
Well, Frank Ryan’s a pretty special place.

Michelle Gauthier
So we’re an intermediate school, but only grades seven and eight. And it’s the last one in our school board that’s a standalone intermediate school. So the students are here; they’re not mixed with elementary kids, they’re not mixed with high school kids—it’s just for them. So it’s a really cool opportunity for us to help them develop their leadership skills. And for me, it’s a pretty special place because I went here.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, the kids get a kick out of that when I tell them. I say, “Yeah, I went here as a student,” and then when I tell them what year I graduated, I think all their jaws drop. So I graduated in 1984 from here. And even some of their parents, I don’t think, were born by then. So it’s a special place—Frank Ryan has a great history. But, you know, I feel really privileged to be in this role as a principal because I can impart what’s most important to me in a school. And I have that ability to decide, “This is what I want to focus on. This is what I want our staff to focus on.”

So to answer your question, what’s most important to me is that kids want to come to school, that they feel happy—not just the students, but the staff. I was just talking with my vice principal this morning and just saying, you know, if we can make sure staff feel good and they’re happy, then that’s going to translate to the students in their classrooms. So a big part for me is a real focus on community and people feeling like this is a home, this is a place where they belong and are cared for.

Sam Demma
What do you think makes a young person want to show up to school?

Michelle Gauthier
For me, it’s that we know them, that they’re known. And that’s, again, some of our schools are getting so big that students can get lost. So it’s a real challenge. We have some high schools right now, grades 7 to 12, that are sitting at 2,500 students. So I feel pretty blessed here that we have, we just have just under 500 students.

For us to be able to stand at the door every morning and say, “Good morning, welcome back,” and be able to say their names, and that they feel known—it’s like a home for them, you know. And that’s what I want from the teachers as well is that they’re greeting the kids at the door, they take an interest, you remember, you know, if they told you something about, you know, going for grandpa’s dinner on the weekend, then on Monday maybe say, “How was dinner?” Just that they really feel like they’re, you know, acknowledged as people.

Sam Demma
You started in counseling and you have a degree in counseling. Did you know you were going to end up in administration in the school or like how did your own pathway unfold as you were growing up?

Michelle Gauthier
Wow, that’s a good question because I don’t think I was ever one of those people that was saying, “This is exactly what I want to do,” or “This is exactly where I want to be.” I started university in math, and then that wasn’t working. So I had—my mom was a math teacher. My dad was an actuary. So math was a big part of our home. And—but I always had private tutors all through school.

So when I went off to university, it was like, “Okay, maybe this isn’t my passion.” And it took me a bit to find it. But in hindsight, it was always there. And I think I’m very close to my dad, and I think it was always clear to him. But second year university, I was really struggling with what my concentration would be, and I finally—my dad said, “You know what, you need to get into education. You know, you were always the one, like the cousin who would take care of the little cousins or the one to babysit.”

And I was a lifeguard, and I taught swimming, and he saw it in me. I don’t know that I was, you know, mature enough to see it in myself. But he encouraged me, and I joined the education department, and I just flew from there. All of a sudden, I was, you know, I loved school, I loved learning, I loved that whole area that I was studying in, and I was lucky to get a job right away. And I just love working with kids.

The counseling has always been there. So I had a bit of a different degree. I went to McGill University in Quebec. Their education program is a bit different. It’s a four-year program. My degree was in teaching English as a second language. And when I came back to Ontario, I got a job as an ESL teacher right away, which was really curious. But the way it works in Ontario back then was you are like a resource teacher, like a special education teacher. So I was the ESL teacher; that’s kind of the realm that I was in.

And what that became was really that support, that advocate for students. So the advocate, you know, as a special education teacher, which I was as well. So I started as an ESL teacher advocating for my newcomer students. Then I moved into special education and advocating for, you know, students with special needs.

I did my master’s in counseling and went into guidance counseling. Did I think I was going to go into admin? No. But I think as I moved through guidance, I realized the role of an administrator—there’s a lot of counseling that happens. And the work that we do with parents and families, reassuring them, supporting them, helping them through some difficult times—I felt I was really well-positioned with my skills of supporting newcomers, supporting families, and students with special needs as a guidance counselor.

So now as an administrator, I really get to help those families and use a lot of my counseling skills. It was a big decision for me to leave counseling and go into administration because I loved what I did. I had an opportunity to fill in for a vice principal who was off for a bit. And during that little term, I realized, “Wow, I’m using—probably my counseling skills were one of my number one skills to use in administration, whether it’s family, students, or staff.”

All those skills were so transferable. So now I get to, in a sense, lead the school. I decide on the direction. And for me, knowing that what’s most important to me is a school where people feel welcome, I really feel privileged that I can steer that boat.

Sam Demma
Young people and humans, in general, are carrying so much in their backpacks these days when it comes to struggles or challenges or changes in the world. How do you counsel well? How do you provide counsel to somebody? Or if they’re going through a challenge, how do you be there for them from the perspective of a counselor?

Michelle Gauthier
Yeah. You really have to be a good listener. And again, it comes down to making a person feel heard and cared for. Often people, you know, you go to counseling and think, “Okay, this person’s going to give me the answer.” And that’s not the case. That’s not what good counseling is. Good counseling is helping someone find their own answers.

So, for me, it’s number one—the fact that students share with you means they trust you. And so you’re there to just understand them, not to try to put your own understandings on them, but really give them the time and jump into their shoes.

Because the reality is, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and my reality is very different from theirs. I can’t begin to understand what they’re going through. I can, you know, I can do my best to empathize, but they need to teach me. So a good counselor is someone who really listens to make that person feel like, “Okay, share with me.” And as they’re sharing, they’re often coming to their own answers.

So, you know, that’s, I think, the best way to approach it.

Sam Demma
You support the staff, which supports the students, but I know from being in your school that you are in the building running around everywhere nonstop, appearing in classrooms, being a part of the assembly programs. Where did your leadership principles develop from? Did you have some really solid mentors, or have you learned over the years from your experiences? Where did you form your own principles?

Michelle Gauthier
And my leadership style, I guess, is what you’re looking at. So sometimes—and I’ve told this to some of my former mentors—you see people wearing the bracelets. You know, sometimes you’ll have a bracelet that says, “What would Jesus do?” or that type of thing. And that’s—my number one mentor would be, you know, just that whole idea of Jesus Christ as servant leader and servant leadership. I’m here to serve.

But I have other bracelets that I wear, and there are former principals that I’ve—you know, I sometimes think, “What would Steve do?” Oh, sorry, there’s our bell. You know, “What would Steve do?” or “What would Greg do?” or “What would Norma do?” And so, those people who—you know, I’ve worked with lots of different administrators, and I take bits from all of them that meant a lot to me. And I wear their bracelets on my wrist, and they help me when I’m in a difficult situation trying to think, “What’s the best approach here?”

And all leaders have different styles and personalities. So I’ll pull on each one of those when I know—“I know Norma would be able to deal with this well,” or “I know what Steve would do.” So that’s, yeah.

Sam Demma
I had a three-year experience with a coach in my life. His name’s Chris Cummins. And we would talk every Tuesday for about an hour and a half, and I would bring to him all of my problems and challenges in my professional pursuit. And he would bring to me questions that would help me uncover the answers I needed to hear—good counseling.

And you can’t see it, but off to the left of my office is a document on the wall that says “The Cummins Commandments.” And I actually created this as a gift to him when our coaching experience ended. And it was the principles that, from our three years of conversation, are things that I would carry forward in my life as a result of the time we had spent.

When you talk about Greg and Norma and Jesus, it makes me think of the time that I shared with Chris. And so I appreciate you sharing that. I think that learning from others is one of the best ways to form our own thoughts and ideas and principles.

One of the experiences that I think of the most in terms of my own education as a student was teachers who made me feel really special, who listened very well. And some of those experiences I had with those educators—they’re things that I’ll remember for the rest of my life. Can you think of any experiences recently where a student has been recognized or celebrated and you think, “Gosh, this is going to be a moment that this young person remembers for the rest of their life”?

Michelle Gauthier
Absolutely. And there’s a few of them, and I have so many memories too. So I’ll just tell you one little story about—I was at a Starbucks, this was a number of years ago, maybe 10 years ago. And this young man stopped me, and he goes, “Miss Gauthier?”

And I’m like—and I’ve taught so many kids over the years. And he introduced himself, and he goes, “You might not remember me, but you taught me grade eight. And I used to like the environment. And you brought me a little flyer that you saw in the Body Shop. And you said it made you think of me, and you gave it to me, and you influenced me to go into environmental sciences.”

And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” We never know the tiny little things we do, the impact they have.

But to answer your question a little bit more about something more recent, I have a student—so I had an opportunity about three weeks ago. The principal of our Safe Schools program reached out to a few principals and said—“We have this opportunity to recognize a student who exemplifies kindness, leadership, and joy. Do you have a student in mind?”

And I was like, “Yes.”

And it was not hard for me to think of who. And it’s this young girl in our school. Her name is Favour. And, you know, she has made it her mission this year to bring joy. And I have to say, it’s been our focus at Frank Ryan on just building character and how important it is and the elements of character.

She’s in grade eight now, so it’s her second year. And she came to me early in the year and she asked, “Miss Gauthier, can I do the joke of the week?” Because we had—she loves jokes.

And I said, “Sure.”

And so she was putting jokes on our daily announcements. And then one day, I was walking through the hall and, geez, Favour is telling me a joke every day. And I asked her, “You know, Favour, you must really like jokes.”

And she said, “I do. Jokes make people happy and make people laugh. And I think that’s really important. And I want to make people laugh.”

So I wrote that up in that little quick blurb to the Safe Schools principal, who sent it to the police, and she was chosen for the bike.

And it was so sweet. When we went to the police station on the weekend—the Ride to Remember is just a ride that police officers across the province of Ontario do to remember fallen officers. And they ride all the way from Thunder Bay to Ottawa, and they stop along the way.

At each stop, they were going to gift a youth with a bike. So here we are on Saturday, and Favour was our chosen student for Ottawa. Her dad was there, her sister was there, and they’re not a family that has a lot.

And just the pride on their faces—the pride of her dad wanting to have his picture with her and the officer. When they did the presentation, they said a little bit about why she was chosen, that she likes to say jokes. And so they gave her an opportunity. She wasn’t shy at all, and she had a joke for the chief of police.

So here’s this grade eight student ready to tell the chief of police a joke. And she said, “What do you call a bike that can’t stand?”

And he looked at her, and she said, “Any guesses?”

And she’s so confident with him—I was so proud of her. And he’s like, “No.”

And she said, “Too tired.”

Michelle Gauthier
And everybody just laughed.

It was so perfect. But that is something I think she will remember. I will remember for sure. That’ll bring her forward, and we’re celebrating that as a community. We took pictures of her, and we put it on our daily announcements, celebrating her as a role model for the other students as well.

Just be a good person, and the world will work in your favour, you know. So, yeah, that was a really sweet, sweet memory that I’ll have for a long time, and I think she will too.

Sam Demma
The Starbucks experience is one that I think a lot of teachers can resonate with. And this story about Favour is one that I’ll also remember for a long time. While you were sharing it, it made me think of students’ pathways in life.

And maybe Favour will be a comedian in the future. If jokes are something that she is extremely passionate about, you just never know. I think it’s so important to give young people platforms to explore the things that make them excited. And maybe “Joke of the Week” becomes “Joke of the Day” if she has that much comedy or jokes to share.

Hearing that the family showed up and how happy, excited, and confident she was is such a beautiful story. So I appreciate you for sharing that on the show.

Michelle Gauthier
My pleasure.

Sam Demma
I know that there are likely many educators tuning in who are needing a little bit more joy and laughter in their life. If there’s an educator listening who’s feeling a little burnt out, and the start of the school year has been a little bit challenging, what advice would you share with them or words of support?

Michelle Gauthier
So I think the big one for me is to remember why you’re here. You’re here for the kids.

Find the joy, you know, find the joy in the kids. It’s been an intense start for us at Frank Ryan—just a lot going on, all good, but a lot going on. And last week, there was a moment where I was a little bit overwhelmed and feeling stuck in my office.

And I just said, “I gotta get out.”

And I went out, and I just—I went to the cafeteria where all the grade sevens—so 250, you know, 11- and 12-year-olds gathered in one room. You can imagine the chaos that that is. And I just stood in the middle of it.

And one of the teachers said to me, “Are you looking for someone?”

And I’m like, “No, no, I just needed to be here. I just needed to be in the middle of this chaos of these beautiful kids and just reconnect to the joy and reconnect to why we’re here.”

And all these kids, it may seem chaotic and crazy, but they’re all smiling. They’re having fun. And I think, you know, when we’re getting overwhelmed, it’s just to sit back and remember why we’re here.

These kids are just precious, and it’s not an easy road, especially pre-adolescence and intermediate school. It’s not an easy task. I’m not sure I’d want to go back to grade seven and eight. So just to remember that we are privileged to be educators, and we have a real privilege to be able to make a difference for these kids and help them when life is hard.

Life is not easy for kids these days when we look at all that they’re facing. So what a gift we have to bring joy. And when you’re feeling a bit depleted, find the kid that brings you joy.

Sam Demma
That’s such good advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show, Michelle, and share some of your ideas around counseling, being a good listener, your leadership style, some of the stories of impact in your schools, the importance of wellbeing, and supporting the staff in the building.

It’s been a privilege chatting with you. Keep up the amazing work, keep up the laughter and the joy in the building, and I look forward to crossing paths again very soon.

Michelle Gauthier
Yeah, we hope to have you back soon, Sam. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Michelle Gauthier

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 5, 2024 by Education Educator Principals School Administration School Counsellor Student Success Teachers 0

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School
About Martina Fasano 

Martina Fasano began her teaching career in 2003 at YCDSB’s St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School. She also taught grade 8 at Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School before returning to the secondary panel and eventually serving as the department head of Canadian and World Studies at St. Maximilian Kolbe, where she taught economics, law, and history. As a vice-principal, Martina has had the honour and privilege of serving both the Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy as well as the St. Brother Andre Catholic High School communities prior to being appointed as the principal of St. Elizabeth.

Martina has served on various committees at the Board level, including the YSCPC (York Secondary Catholic President’s Council), Drug and Alcohol Awareness (DAW), and the Covid-19 Logistics and Planning Committee. She was also a member of the committee that developed teacher resources for the history curriculum revisions which focused on the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Calls to Action to embed Indigenous history into the grade 10 history curriculum in Ontario. As a member of the Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association (OHASSTA), Martina also developed curriculum-based teacher modules on behalf of the Ontario Ministry of Education as part of a targeted project about the role of school trustees.

Throughout her career, Martina’s passion for engaging students has been at the forefront of her efforts toward forward thinking curriculum development in the social sciences, student leadership, school-based digital tool implementation, arts education, school/student safety, and data-informed school improvement. She has also had the opportunity to work with music industry professionals in the capacity of musician, author, social media manager, and public relations strategy. These experiences have allowed Martina to connect student learning to the world beyond the classroom, and bring exciting and dynamic opportunities to the school communities that she has served.

Connect with Martina Fasano: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School

Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School

St. Maximilian Kolbe

Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy

St. Brother Andre Catholic High School

St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by my good friend, Martina Fasano. Martina and I met just over a year ago now. She began her teaching career just over 20 years ago, and she is now a phenomenal principal of a school in the York Catholic District School Board. I’m going to allow her to introduce herself.

Sam Demma
Martina, please share a little bit about who you are with the audience.

Martina Fasano
Thank you so much for having me, Sam. Yeah, it’s been almost over a year now, which before you did your first gig here at St. E’s. So yes, I’m the principal here at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School, home of the Regional Arts Program as well, and having a great time.

Sam Demma
So you have one of the most interactive offices I’ve ever walked into in a school building. There are records hanging on the wall, guitars, and interesting objects on the shelves. Tell me a little bit about your own involvement in the arts that makes you so passionate about being at St. Elizabeth.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely, so I’ve been myself a musician probably since I was about maybe in the fifth grade or so. I’m not counting the drum set that I got when I was about four years old. But so that part is something very near and dear to my heart. Arts education in general for me was really something that helped shape who I am and the self-discipline that came from it. It was an even playing field, is what I would call it.

You start out where I was very fortunate. I was in a school board in Toronto, a Toronto Catholic as a student, and we started our music education programs there in grade 6 with a full band program. So that was the first time I had actually played music in a group, and you basically had a chance to start from scratch and learn an instrument, practice, and do all those things.

And I figured out very quickly that if you just practice and you play all the right notes at the right time, then everything sounds nice. So that’s kind of a metaphor too, for life in general, which is kind of where I took it. I started out as a saxophone player—that was my first instrument—together with piano. And then by the time I got to be a teenager, I added guitar in there because I was listening to a lot of rock, metal, and grunge at the time. It was the height of the grunge era, let’s say, with Nirvana and Pearl Jam and all those guys.

But definitely something that I carried into adulthood, into university. You jump from high school into post-secondary or into “What am I going to do with my life?” To quote Dee Snider from Twisted Sister, “What are you going to do with your life?” We want to rock, right? So I looked at going into the music industry from a more—not just the creative aspect—but looked into the business side of things.

That didn’t really resonate with me because I wasn’t doing anything that I enjoyed in my post-secondary program. I started out in business administration, and I thought, “I can’t do this for the rest of my life. I’m bored. There’s no creativity happening anywhere.” People work in cubicles. I can’t do that. And that’s why my office looks the way it does. It needs to have things in it that bring joy, make me happy, and serve as conversation pieces.

Because when a student walks in, for me, this is just my workspace. But for a student, especially if they’ve never been in trouble, they assume the principal is there to get you in trouble. So I don’t see it that way. But I noticed very early on in my career as an administrator, they see the title that’s on the door. And I noticed that having a lot of these little things around helped kind of put them at ease because they were conversation pieces.

So we get to that before we get to why the student was there. And most often, the student actually is not here because they’re in trouble. So it’s kind of a reputation thing—people think you only get sent to the principal’s office when you’re in trouble—but we’re dealing a lot more with supporting students as opposed to discipline.

Sam Demma
Well, you’re also the only principal that has a record on the wall with the plaque and their name on it. What is it all about?

Martina Fasano
So, the one that’s hanging in my office was actually when I left a school I was at, St. Maximilian Colby. The Canadian World Studies Department re-recorded Hotel California and changed all the lyrics as a goodbye gift. So that’s what’s hanging on the wall. And the little plaque actually has all of the changed lyrics, which are actually quite funny if you read them.

And it’s interesting because I do have a real one at home that 17-year-old me probably would have been really, really happy about. And, you know, wouldn’t have believed me if I said, “You’re going to end up getting a platinum record, but it’s not for what you think.” You’re not going to be in the band, you’re not going to be one of the producers, and you’re not going to be one of the managers, but it’s going to happen by way of your involvement in the music industry somehow.

And I would have laughed at you and said, “Sure, okay, whatever.” But I ended up being a ghostwriter for a rock musician, and that was the gift. The gift was the platinum record from the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack because the band that the artist originally recorded with, The Runaways, which is Joan Jett’s first band, had a number-one song, Cherry Bomb, which went to number one when Guardians of the Galaxy came out as a movie.

So, the record went platinum, and that person that I ghostwrote for was in that band. They got the platinum record and decided to also get me one because I was working on her book at the time. It was just about finished when that happened.

So that’s kind of cool. You’re right, I don’t know of any other principals that maybe came to education for the same reason. For me, it was like, “Why do you want to work with young people? Why do you want to specifically be around teenagers all day?” I get that question a lot.

And for me, it’s quite easy. There’s an energy to young people and a hope to young people that they naturally have that unfortunately, for a long time, schools have kind of almost stifled. And I thought in my wisdom as a young person myself when I made the decision, “If I can maybe change the way schools work, maybe it doesn’t have to be boring, maybe it doesn’t have to be something where there’s all these expectations, instead of actually cultivating a lifelong love of learning.”

Because when you look at, “My mom really wants me to do this and go to university to have this job, and I don’t want to do it, and I don’t know how to tell her,” I’ve had quite a few conversations with students and their parents about that. The fact that I switched my major halfway through from business administration to fine arts cultural studies, talk about a complete polar opposite.

But you have to find what brings you joy. You can make lots of money and maybe even be powerful in some cases doing something that you don’t enjoy. But you’re not going to be as good at it, in my view. You’re not going to be as fulfilled as a human being. And in the end, for me, it was like, I would like to be for young people what I would have needed at the age that I was at all along the way.

And that goes for why I became a vice principal or a principal as well. What did I need when I was a first-year teacher? So that’s what you try to be for somebody else.

Sam Demma
What do you think first-year teachers need to hear, specifically ones that are starting in the education space today, with so much change, especially coming out of the pandemic?

Martina Fasano
That they don’t need to be afraid to take a risk. That it is supposed to be difficult, that all great things are, but that they don’t have to do school and classrooms the way maybe they experienced and to not be afraid to be different.

Because right now, in my personal view, we’ve been doing education wrong for a long time. We have all the great people in the buildings, we have all the great programming in the buildings, we have a curriculum that helps us open those doors. But we are also based on a model that came to be in the 1800s as part of the Industrial Revolution.

Public education was meant to get everyone in line and trained to go to work. Sitting in rows, being obedient, and doing repetitive drills—memorization and all these things. Maybe for that world, those were the skills that were needed. But right now, we live in a world that schools haven’t caught up with yet, if that makes sense.

A perfect example: I was at the Billie Eilish concert last night, and you have the stereotype that young people are lazy, not passionate about things. I saw about 20,000 young people who were quite passionate about what they were seeing. They weren’t bored, they weren’t lazy—they were jumping up and down. The place was almost thunderous.

And in my view, I thought to myself, “This is what school should be like with all these young people in a building. Why are we trying to make everybody so quiet?” It doesn’t make sense to me. So part of being here at St. Elizabeth and having the Regional Arts Program here is that you get to showcase that. You get to see people being creative all day long.

Even if someone’s not in the Regional Arts Program, they still get the benefit of being in that space where creativity is free to flow and to happen. It has an impact on the children that surround those kids that are in the program.

So that’s definitely what I say to a first-year teacher: Don’t be afraid to take the risk. Don’t be afraid to be authentic. The students will see right through you if you’re not.

Sam Demma
I perform at many schools, and I intentionally call it a performance for the same reason you think students shouldn’t be quiet. Like, it needs to be an experience where they have a say and a voice in it, and it speaks to them on an emotional level—not just an educational level—and evokes emotion.

So many times, I’ll finish a speech or a performance, and one of the teachers will walk over and go, “Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry that the students were so loud.” And I say, “No, I encourage it! I egg them on throughout the performance. I want that. Yes, this is what we want. We don’t want them to just sit there with their legs crossed and hands on their lap, just looking in silence.”

Martina Fasano
Yep. You don’t learn if you’re being passive; there’s no learning happening. I distinctly remember being in my second year of teaching, and I was teaching English at the time. The play we were doing was Romeo and Juliet, Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet.

I always had a problem with Shakespeare being taught the way it was. I used to say, “Us reading Shakespeare like a book is the same as showing children a movie by reading the screenplay.” It’s a play—you’re not supposed to be reading it; you’re supposed to be acting it out.

So, I had a relatively rowdy class. I remember that distinctly. I said, “I can’t do this to these kids. The things my department gave me to use, this is not what we’re going to do. We can’t do this. These children will not only get nothing out of this and miss the complete point of the story, but you cannot expect a young person to want to read that old English text as a dramatic piece and not ask them to act it out and see what’s going on.”

So, we constructed this day where we said, “First, we have to figure out what this section of the play is about. Where are we? What’s going on? Romeo and Juliet meet at the party.” So, we basically said, “We’re going to make it a masquerade party.”

We made masks and everything else. I had the vice principal, bless her heart, come by. There was all this noise coming out of my classroom. She knocks on the door, and I opened it, horrified. I thought, “Oh my God, someone must have complained, or something happened.”

I explained, “We’re acting it out because it’s a play.” And there was this pause, and I thought, “This is it; I’m in trouble.” But then she said, “I’m so glad that all this noise is coming out of here because it means the kids are learning. Keep it up and have a nice day.”

The kids thought they were in trouble too! What does that say? If we’re learning stuff and having a good time, we must be in trouble? So, as a classroom teacher, I made it a point to do things that are fun. You have to because if you don’t, you don’t learn. Even if some of them are cheesy or purposely cheesy, they’ll remember them because they’re memorable.

Sam Demma
I couldn’t agree more. I absolutely love that you shared that story, and I hope the educator listening to this reshapes how they think about student engagement. There’s a phenomenal book I’ve been reading called The Advantage by a guy named Patrick Lencioni. He talks about the difference between really successful organizations and ones that fall flat on their face.

One thing he mentions is cohesion among the leadership team. It could be cohesion in a classroom or a staff room. He says the whole team needs to weigh in their thoughts and have constructive disagreements. If the whole team doesn’t weigh in, they won’t buy in.

So, if there’s no weigh-in, there’s no buy-in. That stuck out in my head. When you think about a classroom, students weigh in by using their voice. You don’t want silent people silently agreeing. Silent agreement means they’ll leave the classroom and tell their friends, “I disagree with everything we just talked about in the classroom.”

You want thoughtful disagreement to come up with the best ideas. I love that you shared that story. Thank you so much.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. There’s a lot more where that came from. I eventually got the hint that if you don’t engage them, they won’t learn. Some of those kids in that class had repeated referrals to the office when they were in someone else’s class—repeated.

I knew that coming in because sometimes, unfortunately, I’d get warned and told, “Oh, you have so-and-so; watch out.” I did my best to know my audience. The best thing about teaching is the powerful, real-time feedback.

If you’re teaching a lesson and everyone’s asleep, guess what? You’re not reaching anybody. But you have that feedback in front of you. If you’re willing to step away from what you think you should be, because maybe that’s what you were used to or how you learned, you can adjust.

We’re preparing students for a world that doesn’t even exist yet, using methods and tools from an era long gone. Then we wonder why students aren’t engaged or willing to take creative risks. Starting from when they’re four years old, we teach them compliance. Line up in a straight line, or you get in trouble.

Structure is important because people thrive in it, but there’s a difference between structure for compliance and structure for growth. They’re two very different things.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love that. It’s like having a fence that keeps people in a space, but within that fence, there’s freedom. Is there any experience you’ve had as an educator or principal where you’ve had a big learning experience—something you tried that didn’t work out the way you thought but became a pivotal learning moment?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. One of the first things I learned as an administrator was related to communication. Let’s say there’s an initiative or a memo you put out, and a couple of teachers don’t follow through or do something different.

It’s easy to send a staff-wide email saying, “Remember to do this,” when really, you’re talking to just two people. I learned from doing that once that it’s not the best approach.

As a classroom teacher, how would I feel if I got that email and I was already doing everything right? So now, when I communicate, I think about the high-performing teachers doing amazing work. I base my decisions on the best people in the organization, not the outliers who didn’t follow through this week.

That applies to classroom management too. If you punish the whole class for one student’s behavior, it affects everyone’s morale. Make decisions based on your best people—it goes a long way.

Sam Demma
That’s such good feedback. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation, and I know the person listening feels the same. If they want to reach out, is it okay to put your email on the podcast page?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. They can also follow me on Instagram, where we post about our school’s Regional Arts Program, performances, exhibits, and more. There’s always a lot going on, which is why the hive metaphor works—it’s always buzzing, and that’s a good thing.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sam. All the best.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Martina Fasano

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 3, 2024 by Education Educator Mental Health Principals School Administration Student Leadership Teachers 0

Danielle Desjardins – Principal at St. Thomas of Villanova High School

Danielle Desjardins – Principal at St. Thomas of Villanova High School
About Danielle Desjardins

Dr. Danielle Desjardins is the Principal at St. Thomas of Villanova High School and a sessional instructor at The University of Windsor. Throughout her 26 years in education, she has explored many roles including high school teacher, instructional coach, vice principal, and safe and equitable schools principal.

Dr. Desjardins’ research and professional passions are rooted in critical, emancipatory theory and practices. She has dedicated much time and interest in working with underrepresented communities in challenging policies and practices that pose barriers. Her current research interest is in policies and practices that impact the educational trajectories of newcomer students with interrupted or limited formal education. She is currently a member of Windsor Pride Board of Directors and has dedicated much time and interest in advocating for 2SLGBTQI+ needs and education in secondary schools.

Connect with Danielle Desjardins: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Thomas of Villanova High School

The University of Windsor

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today, we are joined by a very special guest, Danielle Desjardins. Danielle is the principal of Saint Thomas of Villanova High School in Windsor, Ontario, and she’s a friend of mine. She is trailblazing the way. She never stops educating herself and learning. She loves school so much that she recently finished some more education. Danielle, why don’t you take a moment to introduce yourself?

Danielle Desjardins
Hi, Sam. Thanks for having me here. I’m an administrator, currently a high school principal. I was born in 1997 and worked as an English teacher, English second language, teaching multilingual learners, department head, and a consultant for differentiated instruction. Then I became a principal of Safe Schools and Equity, and later a vice principal and principal. For the past six years, I finished a PhD, which was on my bucket list. And I’m currently also an instructor at the University of Windsor.

Sam Demma
What keeps you driven and moving forward and pursuing more and learning more?

Danielle Desjardins
I think I’m just an inquiry-based approach. When you work with so many different people from all different backgrounds and lived experiences, and you see youth who are full of hope and often facing barriers, I’m a problem solver. I want to learn more about the nature of those barriers. I want to hear more stories. I want to explore maybe new ways of thinking or approaching and working with community to find solutions. So, I’m just an inquisitive person, I suppose.

Sam Demma
What questions are you asking yourself right now in regards to young people and supporting them?

Danielle Desjardins
Yeah, I think I’ve always been a critical analyst or critical theorist, and so I’m very interested in populations that are historically disadvantaged and kind of emancipatory frameworks. We have the responsibility as educators to be problem solvers and creative thinkers, aligning with 21st-century learning that we’re espousing for these youth. So, collaborating, listening to stories, checking our own biases, and challenging ourselves to imagine walking in someone else’s shoes. You spoke about this before, Sam, for sure.

And also to work with community members who might have a better understanding through their own lived experiences to guide us through that ally process. I’ve done a lot of work. For instance, I’ve been on the board of directors of Windsor Pride, supporting 2SLGBTQI+ youth facing barriers in educational systems.

Sam Demma
Do you think about all these questions when you leave the school building? Is it like a non-stop thing that runs through your head?

Danielle Desjardins
Yes, I do. I think about it and try to expose myself to others who have those same passions and curiosities. That’s why I love teaching at night, joining in book talks, or reading scholarly journals to see what the latest research is. It’s a global academic conversation. What are people doing in other countries and places in the world? I was just speaking with a leader from Mexico who ran a school based on SEL (social-emotional learning). The school’s core curriculum was SEL, and everything else was layered out from there. That makes sense to me because what we want is someone who can look at a problem with a knowledge foundation and say, “No problem is too big.” It’s about believing you can solve it and using resources in a world that’s becoming even smaller and more accessible.

Sam Demma
I asked if you think about it outside the school building because your passion is so obvious. You can hear it, you can feel it through the podcast. When you’re walking through the school hallways of Villanova and talking to students or engaging with teachers, what are some of the challenges they tell you they’re currently experiencing or facing?

Danielle Desjardins
I often hear from students that they struggle to balance the expectations placed upon them from various sources. They internalize these expectations and adopt them as their own, which makes them lose sight of what they truly want. Sam, I know you’ve expressed this to our students before. That’s why you’re celebrated—you’re right on. Our students are saying things, and we’re focusing this year on managing stress and strategies. We’ve created a committee to identify and name emotions beyond “I feel sad” or “I feel happy.” We’re identifying the sources of stress and implementing quick strategies in all our classes. It might be meditation, breathing exercises, square breathing, or visualizing. We’re doing this in math, science, history—it’s not curriculum-specific.

Danielle Desjardins
We’ve also realized that some students face external pressures, like having to contribute to family income or excel at extracurriculars to secure scholarships. Social media also weighs heavily on them. They wonder, “Do I look the right way? How do people perceive me?”

Sam Demma
A teacher recently shared a line with me that stuck: “Teachers aren’t just supposed to teach the curriculum; they’re supposed to teach character.” It’s hard to figure out how to help young people solve these challenges. How do we teach empathy or help them unpack the burdens they carry in their metaphorical backpacks? What are some initiatives at Villanova that you’re excited about and anticipating cool results from?

Danielle Desjardins
Every school does fundraisers and gives back to the community, but what makes it enriching is ensuring inclusivity. We run a fantastic Best Buddies program to ensure all students are included in school activities. Recently, we noticed tension in the junior class. To address this, we called upon all grades to facilitate a fun day, ensuring representation from art-focused students, STEM-focused students, music, and tech. We also have initiatives that combine different departments, like building structures for charity events. For example, we’re planning a “Canstruction” event at the local mall. It requires engineering, artistry, and collaboration among robotics teams, tech, and art students. This breaks down silos, allowing students to explore new areas and appreciate diversity. We also started a course this year on positive media communication. Students promote their peers through social media and other mediums, ensuring no voices are left out. It’s been exciting to see how this course unfolds.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. There’s so much happening at Villanova this year. Thank you for sharing some of the initiatives and your thoughts on wellness. You’ve mentioned a lot about students, but educators’ well-being is equally important. What do you do to make sure your cup is full so you can show up for others?

Danielle Desjardins
Great question, Sam. I think educators often neglect themselves. As a leader, I prioritize creating opportunities and safe spaces for teachers to express their needs. I ensure they feel valued and listened to, even if an idea doesn’t seem feasible at first. I challenge myself to say, “I don’t know that it won’t work.” Flexibility and recognizing when someone’s having a tough day go a long way. Sometimes, it’s as simple as our demeanor and openness. We also do fun activities, like participating in student events. For example, during Fun Day, staff joined students on the slip-and-slide. It’s about building community through shared experiences. Personally, I find wellness in volunteering and spending time with students outside formal settings. For example, last weekend, I volunteered at a community event with students, which left me feeling great. I also run and model the importance of balance for students, joining them on cross-country runs or simply being visible and approachable.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. I think it’s so important for students to see teachers as human beings—laughing, playing, and participating alongside them. It builds a community that can’t be replicated. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your insights, Danielle. From the bottom of my heart, I hope this academic year is filled with impactful moments and meaningful experiences.

Danielle Desjardins
Right back at you, Sam. Thank you for this opportunity. I’m humbled to participate, and our students still talk about your presentations. We’ll definitely get you back.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much, my friend.

Danielle Desjardins
Take care.

Sam Demma
Take care. See you soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Danielle Desjardins

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 26, 2024 by Education Education Consultant Educator Principals School Counsellor Student Leadership Student Success 0

Bryan Burns – Principal at Matthew Halton High School 

Bryan Burns – Principal at Matthew Halton High School
About Bryan Burns

Bryan Burns is the Principal of Matthew Halton High School in Pincher Creek Alberta. This year is the second for Bryan as Principal, however prior to that he was the Assistant Principal for three years. This year will be his tenth year at Matthew Halton, where he spent eight years as the Learning Support Teacher, taught various levels of Social Studies and brought the first Hockey Academy ( which he still runs today) to Halton.

Culture and creating a positive environment where students, staff and members of the community want to be is the driving force behind his personal philosophy. Bryan can often be found interacting with students in his own classroom, participating in lunch intramural sports or walking through the halls to have personalized conversations with others. His desire to create positive experiences extends out of the classroom into extracurricular athletic activities. Currently he is the school cross country running coach and prior to admin life taking more time he also coached volleyball, baseball, basketball and other school sports.

Connect with Bryan Burns: Email | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Matthew Halton High School

Hockey Academy

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam. And today we are joined by Bryan Burns. Bryan is the principal of Matthew Halton High School in Pincher Creek, Alberta. I had the pleasure of learning a little more about his community last year. And he just got back from a conference in Vegas.

Sam Demma
Bryan, how was it? Thanks for coming on the show. And how was your conference?

Bryan Burns
It was great, Sam. Thanks for having me. And yeah, lots of learning. The weather was fantastic. Here in Pincher Creek, it’s always windy, as I think you learned last year. So it was nice to get out of the wind.

Sam Demma
Did you know when you were a student yourself that you wanted to be in education? Or what brought you to this path?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, that’s a great question. I really – I was one of those kids in school who I didn’t know what I wanted to be. And truthfully, some of my friends, I was applying to university, I knew I was going. They said, “Hey, do you want to try out education?” And so I did a concurrent degree at Lakehead University in Thunder Bay, Ontario. And that way, I would have my Bachelor of Arts if I didn’t like teaching. And once I got more immersed into the teaching, I realized I liked it. Some of that started with coaching Timbits hockey, five-year-olds. And that was a cool experience. So from five-year-olds now, you know, we got some 18-year-olds in here, quite a mix.

Sam Demma
What was it about teaching itself that was something you became drawn to?

Bryan Burns
I think it was the idea of helping people, right? And when you kind of hit those aha moments, where whether it’s a big struggle or something really small, you kind of said this in some of your presentations too, right? Like you feel better when you help others. And to quote a great person, everyone’s got stuff in their backpack, right?

Sam Demma
I don’t know who I’m talking about, but…

Bryan Burns
It’s those pieces, right? It’s the wins that, with other people, you celebrate their successes, and then you feel great as well. So that’s the biggest rewarding part I find.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I think those actions of kindness and service to others also light us up, like you said. And I’m wondering, did you have other coaches or teachers in your life when you were a student, or even now, that helped you have some of those aha moments that showed you what was possible being a teacher?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, coaching. I played a lot of hockey just at a house league level growing up and had some good coaches with my dad, my uncle, friends’ parents as well. So gained a lot of good resources in terms of knowledge through them, not just on the ice, but also how to be a good teammate, how to be a good friend, how to be a decent person. And so those were the big ones from the sports side. But the teacher who made the most impression on me was my high school history teacher, Mr. Smith. He was also the football coach. So he was a mix of caring but that firm, stereotypical football coach approach. And he left an impression on me of, you can go out and do things if you really try, right? So that’s the biggest thing. Put a little effort into stuff and you’ll probably get some movement here, progress.

Sam Demma
It sounds like his philosophy around effort was a big thing that stuck with you. Was there anything else in specific that he did, or when you reflect on his leadership as a coach and a great teacher, that you think other educators listening may want to reflect on or think about modeling in their own classrooms or with their teams?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, the biggest thing was he always brought a sense of awareness to learning, and he made it engaging and fun in the way that, you know, he would bring history to life. History can be boring for some, but the way that he just presented it, you know, he’d be reenacting the French Revolution standing on desks. Not saying every day has to be that, but just something that puts a smile on your face.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. When you think about the teachers in Matthew Halton, you now are in a position where you’re not only helping students, but you’re supporting the staff, which in turn will serve and support the students in the building. How do you help the staff so that they can help the students?

Bryan Burns
Another great question. I think there’s lots of things you can do, right, from the academic standpoint, a sense of belonging. That was something that really our school focused on last year, was students walking in the door and staff feeling that, “Hey, I belong here.” Not to say everyone’s going to right off the bat; for some, it takes longer, but really pushing staff to create an environment and doing that myself of, “This is a pretty good place, I wanna be here.” Because if you come in and you’re already defeated, that “I don’t belong” or, “Hey, this doesn’t fit my mold,” it’s gonna be really, really difficult to do all the other things to your best potential.

Sam Demma
I can tell you as a guest of Matthew Halton, I felt welcomed warmly from the moment I walked in to the moment I continued on my way. From the students who met me in the office, Kevin spending the day making sure the tech was taken care of, the warm introduction, and the community members who showed up in addition to students to watch the performance – like every aspect of it was so thoughtful and well-planned. I think I know exactly what you’re referring to when you talk about walking in and feeling that sense of belonging, because I felt it when I arrived. Is that something that you’ve had to work on, or has it been present in the community for a long time?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, so I’m coming up on year 10 here at Halton. This is my fifth year in the office. So not to say I didn’t get to shape or have a perspective on that as a teacher before getting into the admin side of things. But I’ve always felt that sense of community here, but really trying to put a push to it the last two years within our school goals of, let’s really try and make a stamp on here and create this identity, right? And so shape it through values. That’s something we’re working on this year – how can we get the students to create values that they see as important and then actually live it each day so they’re not just, you know, five words on paper, but actually have some substance to it.

Sam Demma
I love that. You have a painting – no one can see it, but it’s behind you on the wall there. Is it student art, or is there a story behind it?

Bryan Burns
Are you talking on this side here? Yeah. That is not student art, but we definitely have lots of that around the school. I grew up in Ontario, and so my parents met an Indigenous artist, and they’ve created some work for them. It was actually a gift for my mom, and it’s fitting that I’m talking about my mom on your podcast because lots of your stories involve your family and your mom. So yeah, we’ll dive into this one. It was something when I became the principal, my mom wanted to get me something for my office. She said, “I know that there’s an Indigenous connection out here; we have the P’gani Reserve very close by.” And she wanted to put a little bit of home, Ontario, into my office. So yeah, it’s actually the artist who did it. My mom gave her a couple of ideas, and it’s actually called “Learning Through Halton Pass.” She created different things like my dog is incorporated in it, my wife, my family, some friends. Yeah, glad you picked up on that.

Sam Demma
I find that when you leave with curiosity or ask genuine, thoughtful questions about something, there’s usually cool stories or connections, and you find that we have more in common than we do different. You start to see humanity in other people. And so I noticed it from the time we started the call, and I wanted to make a point of asking you about it. I found when I ask young people similar questions, or I’ll notice something and I just genuinely ask about it, they start telling you stories, and you build a deeper relationship. I’m just curious, from your perspective, working in education for so long, how do you think you build those deep relationships with young people?

Bryan Burns
I think it’s exactly what you’re saying – through curiosity, right? And genuine curiosity. Our school is, you know, we’re under 300 students, grades seven to 12. So I have a pretty good sense of who the students are coming into our building. Last year, with our grade 7s coming over from our feeder elementary school, I wanted to get to know them. So I’m not just, you know, the guy in the office. I actually did one of our option classes with them, and I called it “leadership.” But really, that course was a chance for me to connect with them and get to know, you know, who’s doing ranching in the community, who likes to read, who you know – who are you? That’s the piece, right? Because in my mind, they’re going to be here for the next six years, and we spend lots of time together. So I want to get to know you so I can connect, as you’re saying, on that personal, genuine level.

Sam Demma
That sounds like getting to know the students is one big aspect of it. When you think about the culture you’re building of belonging in the school, how do the teachers play a big role in it as well?

Bryan Burns
I think a lot of it is being visible. Whenever a new staff member comes on, I always joke that if you come into our staff room, you’ll probably be the only one there. And they kind of look at me funny a little bit. So, you know, lots of staff are hanging out in the common area at lunch where all the students eat. We have intramural sports at lunch. There’s always a staff team involved within that. Sometimes we’re mixed in amongst the kids; sometimes I challenge the staff because what’s better than beating up on them in dodgeball, right? Really empowering them to realize the impact they have with their students, right? And admitting our flaws and our faults – that we’re all people, but also connecting with them in those authentic, fun ways.

Sam Demma
I love the idea of you being the only person in the staff room, because everyone’s out and about and supporting the community and engaging with the students and other staff members. The vocation of education is one where you have a big heart, you want to serve, and most educators want to give back and make a difference. Sometimes it’s hard to balance the service to others and the giving back with taking a reprieve and making sure your own cup is full. How do you personally balance the two extremes?

Bryan Burns
It’s a very difficult balance. I had a former colleague once tell me, “If you’re a lonely person, this is the career for you,” because there can always be something going on, right? Especially in a smaller tight-knit community. As much as I love being here, I love being with my family as well – my wife and my kid. We just had a baby New Year’s Eve last year, so that’s a totally new balance for me personally. Some of it is simple tips and tricks for myself, like having a calendar so I’m on time for the things I need to be here for, but also at home. There are ways to incorporate family into the school life as well. So just making sure that, like you’re saying, keeping your bucket full, doing the things you love that keep you happy. And sometimes it is tricky though. It’s a tricky profession in that regard.

Sam Demma
In those moments where you might be a little spent or burnt out because of all the different moving parts and things that are going on, how do your colleagues play a role in supporting or peer-to-peer support? How do you think about that?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, I mean, lots of techniques and humor, right? It’s not like I came into the admin role in a new school where I didn’t know the staff, so I was fortunate to have those existing relationships. I think it’s like any dynamic where you have that sense of trust, where you can call each other when you’re having a bad day, tell a joke – something small to change your mindset or perspective. I just had a staff member come in right before this and they just told me a feel-good story, and hey, what a way to put a smile on your face, right?

Sam Demma
Hey man, you made me laugh when you said the Oilers were a good hockey team just this past year.

Bryan Burns
Yeah, hey, they almost had it. But yeah, that’s fun. You gotta have some laughs for sure.

Sam Demma
Of course. I’m wondering, when you think of other resources that have helped you in your journey as an educator, so you can contribute more to students and other staff, are there any events you’ve attended or resources you found that have been a great help for you?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, I think the biggest thing is connecting with people, right? It’s getting in touch with not only others in education but also seeing how you can make connections outside of the building. A couple of specific events – you just mentioned I got back from a conference in Las Vegas, and there were other members of our school division there. Lots of times, you know, at admin meetings, everything is tight deadlines or we have to go through this policy. Sometimes when you can spend some time outside of your normal environment with people who have similar roles or jobs, just trading stories. I’m definitely thankful for many people. A friend of mine and a colleague here – his dad was the superintendent of the school division years and years ago. He once told me, “Do you want one line of advice for education?” And I said, “Yeah, of course.” And he said, “If you’re making this decision and it’s not in the best interest of kids, don’t make it.” So just being able to communicate with people in that regard, I find, is much stronger than most of the books I’ve read or going to a conference for a weekend. Those are the things that make that lasting imprint on you.

Sam Demma
I think you’re so right about the connections with others – not only outside the school building like you mentioned but also your colleagues within the school building. I had a guest recently who told me that they built an arrangement with other teachers in their school who had the same lunch. They would sit down, eat, and share best practices or ideas or challenges, and then brainstorm together. It was almost like a daily mastermind so they could continue showing up the best they possibly could for their students and also have some humorous moments about things that were unfolding in their classrooms that each other weren’t aware of because they were in their own rooms. I think that camaraderie and the support is really important. There might be an educator listening to this right now who’s feeling burnt out or who’s struggling a little bit, or maybe it’s a teacher who’s just finishing their education degree or their bachelors and they’re excited about jumping into the world of education but feeling a little nervous. What do you think someone needs to hear on their first day working in a school?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, great question. A couple of things processing through my head here. I think it’s always kind of reminding yourself – and you asked me off the top, you know, “What’s the reason? How did you get into this?” Right? – and going back to your core values of, yeah, why did I get into this? It’s an amazing job. There are tons of rewards to it, tons of hardship. So I think when you’re in both of those times, just trying to refocus. “Hey, remember the other day it wasn’t like this.” Every educator has had times where this is a real tough gig or “Why am I doing it?” Like many other careers, too, right? But when you can refocus on that “why” and shift your energy, focus on those important values – like I mentioned, that’s the basic thing, right?

Sam Demma
I agree, and I have a question. Has your “why” shifted since you had a new child? That’s such a pivotal moment, and I’m curious, did it shift at all the way you think about education or educating kids? Mind you, they’re not in school yet, but they will be soon.

Bryan Burns
Yeah, everyone always told me, “Hey, once you have your own kid, it’s going to change your life in lots of ways.” And yeah, it definitely has. In terms of how I look at things within my career aspect, yeah, I would say it has. I went and toured a daycare the other day, outside of work, and you kind of think, well, actually, this is where learning starts after home, right? You’re really putting your trust in other people to take care of your kid, right? The most important thing in your life. So I’ve always heard that and felt that sense of honor, really, when you get to be responsible for others. But you look at things a little bit more closely, right? I’d be lying if I said I didn’t notice some safety things and thought, “Oh yeah, that corner looks kind of sharp here. Maybe I should…” So all the new dad things I’m enjoying.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome, man. Well, congrats again, and thank you so much for taking some time to chat on the podcast about some of your educational experiences and ideas. That one line you shared about making sure every decision we make is in the best interest of kids is gonna stick with me, and I hope it sticks with everyone who’s been tuning in to this show. If someone wants to reach out to you and ask a question or connect, what would be the best way for them to do so?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, absolutely. Totally welcome that. I’m not one of those Twitter or X users in the education world, but you can absolutely email me. So, burnsb@lrsd.ab.ca. And yeah, like I mentioned, connecting with people is the best way I find to learn and grow. I’m super thankful, Sam, for you asking me to be on here and getting the chance to know you. Because not only did your messaging impact all the students here, but some of them – you know, your message went really deep. I think others learned if you’re gonna ask for an autograph not to use a dry erase marker and use a Sharpie. I don’t know if you remember that. But yeah, I’ve appreciated what I’ve learned from you. I’ve listened to you speak publicly twice now and shared some messages. So thank you.

Sam Demma
Thank you, Bryan. I appreciate it, and I hope this next year is a really meaningful one with lots of impact. Keep doing the great work you’re doing, and I look forward to our next crossing or conversation.

Bryan Burns
Absolutely. Thank you.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Bryan Burns

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 7, 2024 by Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Teachers 0

Laura Beltran – Principal at St. Joseph’s Catholic High School

Laura Beltran – Principal at St. Joseph's Catholic High School
About Laura Beltran

Laura Beltran is the Principal of St. Joseph’s Catholic High School in Windsor, Ontario. She has worked for the Windsor-Essex Catholic District School board for the past 31 years. She started her career at Holy Names High School and then moved to a permanent position at St. Joseph’s for the next 12 years. She moved into administration as a vice principal in 2010 and was appointed principal of St. Thomas of Villanova High School in 2021.

She strives to meet the board’s vision of “empowering, inspiring, and knowing her students”. Being kind to one another is a regular part of her daily announcements and reminders to students and staff. She believes that the school can be an example for the larger community of what peace and kindness can do to show young people a world where they are valued and cared for. She coaches a Hockey4Youth program for young women who face the financial challenge of not being able to play hockey or learn to skate. She also loves every opportunity to hold her benevolence cafe where she treats the students to hot chocolate or lemonade while getting to know them. She has a passion for creating a school environment that focuses on equity and inclusion where all students can meet success.

Connect with Laura Beltran: Email | Facebook | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joseph’s Catholic High School

Windsor-Essex Catholic District School

Hockey4Youth

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam, and today we are joined by a very special guest, Laura Beltran. Laura and I met after doing an engagement at her high school, and I have to tell you, the moment you walk in the doors of St. Joseph’s High School, the energy is palpable. It is something that staff, students, and herself have cultivated. Laura, it’s such a pleasure to have you on the show here today. Thank you so much for taking the time.

Laura Beltran
Thanks, Sam, I appreciate it. Looking forward to it.

Sam Demma
So where does your energy come from? Because out of all the principals I’ve crossed paths with or people in education, you got this magnetic energy that doesn’t seem to expire. Where does it come from?

Laura Beltran
I don’t know, I guess it’s my sense of purpose and knowing that this is what I was meant to do. And I have joy every single day I come to work because it’s not like I have a job. I have a vocation that I am absolutely privileged to be able to do and to work with young people. I feed off of their energy and enthusiasm every single day.

Sam Demma
Did you know when you were a student yourself that one day you would be in education, or what brought you down this pathway?

Laura Beltran
No, I absolutely did not. My path was very zigzag in the way that it looked. I always wanted to be a pediatrician. And so I graduated high school, I was a Canadian biology scholar, and that was my pathway, the only pathway I ever thought of. Then I didn’t like the competitive nature of the program. I moved on to sociology, found it interesting but a little too easy. I moved into criminology. From there, I wanted to be a police officer. I applied to Teachers College thinking, well, maybe there is something in there for me. I got into Teachers College, which was highly competitive at the time. I came out as a primary junior teacher teaching little kids and got called to the director’s office within six months of coming out of Teachers College. They said, “We need someone to teach OAC Law and you’re the only one, so are you a good teacher?” I looked at him and said, “I’m a great teacher.” I know that because when I get up in the morning, I want to come to work.

Sam Demma
When you think about great teachers you’ve had in your life or the amazing educators in your own building, what do you think makes a great teacher?

Laura Beltran
Great human beings make great teachers. Those that really care for the students entrusted to them. They get to know them, want to know who these individuals are, and want to help them succeed. They want them to choose pathways of success and go above and beyond every single day, whether in the classroom, outside the classroom, or through extracurricular activities. Those opportunities allow students to really fulfill their purpose in life, be happy in their own lives, feel joy, and achieve success.

Sam Demma
I think going above and beyond and also taking care of your own well-being is important. Because it’s such a challenge when you have this heart of service and want to give, give, give. Sometimes we give so much that we have no health left for ourselves. How do you balance that?

Laura Beltran
That is really true, and I see that with my staff. One thing we do with our staff is always look out for the well-being of others, especially our students, but also ask, what are we doing for ourselves? How do we take those breaks and really take care of ourselves? Sometimes during professional development days, we will take opportunities for mindfulness activities or allow staff to be in one another’s company to revitalize and remember why we do this work every day. Taking those opportunities is really, really important.

Sam Demma
When I was at your school, a lot of the initiatives were student-led. Even the organizing of the entire event, the creation of graphic images, the introductions, the thank-yous, it was all student-led. Where did that perspective or philosophy of making sure students are as involved as possible come from in your educational ideas?

Laura Beltran
I always tell my students that this is their home away from home. Many of our students feel this is the only place that is safe, comfortable, and free from stress or some of the challenges they deal with in their lives. If they can take ownership of this school, it becomes a home, not just a building or a facility. When they know their voice matters and have opportunities to lead activities within the school, you’ll see them rise, shine, and bring out the best part of themselves. That is what we want to see in our kids; then we know we’re successful.

Sam Demma
Do you have an example in your mind of a student who was shy or introverted and, through a leadership opportunity, really saw themselves shine or embrace their skills?

Laura Beltran
I do. I have a story that I will never forget. This was back when I was teaching in a classroom. I found out the day before that I was moving into administration, so I had to tell my students I was leaving and wouldn’t be their classroom teacher anymore. After everyone said their goodbyes, one student stayed behind. This student rarely spoke in class. She said, “I want to thank you because my mom talks about how negative her job is at dinner every night, and it stresses me out. I want to be happy. I see you come into work every day, so joyful, and that’s what I want for me.” This student helped me with a project we did called the Veterans Memory Project. We interviewed local veterans, wrote a book, and presented it to the Windsor Historical Society, the War Museum in Ottawa, and our local legions. She said, “I know my purpose. I won’t waste time finding a job that doesn’t make me happy because every moment counts. You taught me that.” This was a student who didn’t really participate in class, and then you realize the profound effect we have on kids.

Sam Demma
It’s so true. There was one occasion where I delivered a presentation, and a student faced the wall instead of the stage. I thought he wasn’t paying attention. But that night, he emailed me, sharing how much he needed to hear those stories. I created this entire story in my head, feeling annoyed and frustrated, but he was actually connecting deeply. So many teachers pour their hearts and energy into students, wondering if it’s making a difference, but it is. Your story is a beautiful reminder to educators that words, actions, and even our energy matter. In your case, it was the joy you brought to work. Speaking of that, how do you think we best support young people today?

Laura Beltran
There are a few things we do that we’re proud of. First, we provide mental health supports at our school with child and youth workers, psychotherapists, and mental health and addiction nurses. We do Lunch and Learns where our child and youth worker and psychotherapist collaborate on topics that help students, serving them lunch and discussing subjects like productivity and stress management. Additionally, every Friday, we host “Hot Chocolate with Ms. Beltran,” or in warmer weather, “Lemonade with Ms. Beltran.” The kids love it. They line up, and yes, it’s free. We chat, I get to know their names, and I absolutely love it. I wear an apron that says “Hot Chocolate with Ms. Beltran,” and every Friday becomes the Beltran Cafe.

Sam Demma
I’m sure you get some of the best ideas or feedback from students in those spaces.

Laura Beltran
I do. It’s casual, one-on-one, and informal. They bring their friends, we chat, and I get to know them better. I think they understand through that experience that I’m available to them, that there’s no barrier to talking with the principal. Often, they offer to pour their own drink, and I say, “I know you can, but I want to do this for you.”

Sam Demma
In leadership, it’s often said that being visible and accessible—spending time in the school rather than staying in the office—is key. Who has inspired or supported you on your own journey as a leader?

Laura Beltran
I’ve been very fortunate to have colleagues who mentored me and educators who excel in their work. Reflecting on the most effective teachers I had, they were individuals who showed that they loved what they did. There was humor, laughter, and fun activities. I’ve always carried that with me.

Sam Demma
The joy piece is so important. But I imagine there are days where, like anyone, you have to choose joy despite challenging circumstances. How do you center yourself to ensure you show up for people?

Laura Beltran
When I’m having one of those days, I’ll go for a walk around the building or spend time in the hallways, seeking out students. I’ll visit students on spare, kids involved in activities, or go to my life skills area to chat with kids. That grounds me. It reminds me why I’m doing this, gives me a breather, some laughs, and allows me to refocus.

Sam Demma
Do conversations with students help shift your emotional state in those moments?

Laura Beltran
Absolutely. That’s why we got into this—to interact and build relationships with kids. Through those everyday conversations, I learn so much about who they are, what they carry, what they love, and even how they feel about their school and what we could improve. I’ll ask, “How was the game last night? I know you didn’t win, but you played great.” I also try to attend all team games, at least once or twice each season.

Sam Demma
Nice. How’s the team looking out there?

Laura Beltran
They work really hard. And I always tell them, “It’s not about the score but how you carry yourself on the field.”

Sam Demma
A friend of mine told me once, “We’re not just teaching curriculum; we’re teaching character.” And that has stuck with me.

Laura Beltran
Absolutely.

Sam Demma
When dealing with challenging situations, how do you approach difficult conversations with students?

Laura Beltran
It’s important to show them that you’re human, that you don’t expect perfection, and that mistakes are part of growth. We make mistakes, I make mistakes, and young people will make mistakes too. It’s about acknowledging the mistake, discussing how to make it right, and considering what we’ll do differently next time. Discipline is only one part of the process; the educational component is where growth truly happens.

Sam Demma
I made a mistake in grade seven or eight, and a friend got blamed for it instead of me. At home, I started crying. My dad took me back to the school, I confessed, and the principal handled it with restorative questions, giving me an in-school suspension. If my dad had gone straight to punishment, I wouldn’t have learned from it as I did. So it’s wonderful that you focus on humanity and solutions in those moments.

Laura Beltran
Absolutely. I appreciate that you mentioned restorative practices. Sometimes, we bring students together in peer mediation, and they realize the impact of their actions on each other. It’s amazing to witness those “aha” moments, where they truly understand how they’ve affected someone else.

Sam Demma
Empathy is a challenging thing to teach, especially when the brain is still developing. But when a student understands, it makes the work even more fulfilling.

Laura Beltran
It does, and it brings a sense of hope. I tell our students every day, “Be kind to one another, take care of one another.” We can be an example to the larger community of how to treat one another and create peace and hope.

Sam Demma
For an educator listening who might feel burnt out, nervous, or new to the profession, what advice would you give?

Laura Beltran
Don’t give up. Reach out. There are so many educators with experience to share. This is my 31st year, and time flies. The first years are the hardest, but that’s okay. Nobody needs to reinvent the wheel—ask for help, and don’t be afraid to lean on others.

Sam Demma
If someone wanted to connect with you or ask a question, what’s the best way to reach you?

Laura Beltran
You can reach me by email (laura_beltran@wecdsb.on.ca) or on Instagram (@fastballcoachlaura) and Facebook (@lauratillie).

Sam Demma
Laura, this has been such a lovely conversation. Thank you for sharing your beliefs about education, and how giving students time and energy helps them grow. I appreciate it. Wishing you all the best with the school year and coaching. Talk to you soon.

Laura Beltran
Thanks so much, Sam. Take care.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Laura Beltran

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 5, 2024 by Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Uncategorized 0

David Kelly, Ed.D — Principal at Nixa High School

David Kelly, Ed.D — Principal at Nixa High School
About David Kelly

David Kelly has spent the past 20 years in secondary education serving students across multiple districts in Southwest Missouri. He received his Bachelor’s of Science Degree in Social Studies Education in 2005 and began a teaching career in the Dallas County R-1 school district. Following a three-year stint there, he began teaching social studies at Nixa High School in Nixa, Missouri.

In 2012, Dr. Kelly earned a Master’s Degree in Educational Leadership from Evangel University. That fall, he accepted his first administration position as an assistant principal at Hollister High School in Hollister, Missouri. In the fall of 2013, he returned to Nixa Public Schools, where he served as assistant principal.

Dr. Kelly earned his Doctoral Degree in Educational Leadership in Curriculum, Instruction, and Technology at Evangel University in August of 2018. Since 2019, he has served as the Principal of Nixa High School. During his tenure, Nixa High School was named a Missouri Gold Star school and was awarded a National Blue Ribbon by the US Department of Education.

Dr. Kelly has been named the Missouri Administrator of the Year by both the Missouri Interscholastic Press Association in 2021 and the Speech and Theatre Association of Missouri in 2022. He was just named the Southwest Missouri Principal of the Year by the Southwest Missouri chapter of the Missouri Association of Secondary School Principals (MoASSP) and will move forward as a nominee for Missouri Principal of the Year.

In addition to his role as principal, Dr. Kelly works with new administrators as a mentor and facilitator with the Missouri Leadership Development System. He is passionate about developing teachers and creating a climate where students maximize their potential. He currently resides in Nixa, Missouri, with his wife, and two-time Evangel graduate, Dr. Morgan Kelly, and their three children, Addison, Ansley, and Grayson.

Connect with David Kelly: Email | Facebook | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Nixa High School
Evangel University
Missouri Leadership Development System

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam. And today we are joined by David Kelly. I met David maybe a year ago at Nixa High School and just heard that their football team has kicked off the season this year with two wins. They have a 2-0 record.

Sam Demma
David, how is that making the school culture shift? And please take a moment to introduce yourself.

David Kelly
Yeah, so I am David Kelly. I’m a principal of Nixa High School in Nixa, Missouri. We’re located in the southwest part of the state. There are approximately 2,000 kids in our school and we serve a community of about 30,000 people. But yeah, we thought we were going to have a pretty good football team.

David Kelly
We had our first test last Friday and ended up beating a team that has won, I believe, it’s 16 state championships since 2000, so they’re always good, always competitive. And we beat them 55-21, and so a pretty good gauge on where our year is going to go, barring any major injuries or anything. But in the United States, anytime your football team is off to a good start, it just helps the whole culture of your building. It helps your community. It’s something everybody can rally around and get excited about.

Sam Demma
So it’s a lot of fun. Sports and actually not even just sports, but extracurricular activities students can get involved in, have such a tremendous impact on your character building, on your leadership development. Why do you think extracurricular activities in sports are pivotal for young people, especially students to get involved in?

David Kelly
So I think for most kids, the teenage years for a lot of kids are years where they’re very self-centered and I don’t blame teenagers for that. I just think it’s where they’re at developmentally, and sports clubs, extracurricular activities, band, choir, whatever it may be, it becomes about more than just yourself and I think it helps you learn that there is more out there than just you, and the world is a bigger place than just you. It makes you accountable to other people, so your decisions now aren’t only impacting you, they’re also impacting your team or your organization. Those students also understand, like, when they go somewhere, their team is represented on their chest. And so, it’s not just about the team, it’s also about their community, and the way that they act, the way that they behave says something about their community when they have it, you know, written across the front of their chest. So yeah, I think honestly here it’s probably one of the best at-risk programs we have and just as a way to keep kids engaged, keep them excited about school. And you know, those kids we have found here, over 70% of our students are involved in some sort of club or extracurricular activity. Their GPA on a 4.0 scale is usually around 3.4.

David Kelly
Their attendance rates are better, higher ACT scores. So there’s a direct correlation that we can provide the evidence of that kids that are involved just do better. But I think it’s about realizing that there’s more to this world, there’s more to this community than just me. And it helps them to be more empathetic, more responsible. And those are character traits that we want all of our kids to graduate from and carry

Sam Demma
with them into the world. You don’t know this, but I did a presentation for a conference in Idaho. No, this one was in Arkansas. And at the event, I wore the red Nixa shirt on stage. And people were asking, did you see these photos? I wore the merch proudly. And everyone was asking me afterwards if I went to this school and where it came from. And I said, I got this shirt from where Jason Bourne is from.

David Kelly
That’s right, that’s right. So the birthplace of Jason Bourne. So yeah, no, I actually saw a post that you had put on Facebook, I believe. And I was like, oh man, he’s wearing our shirt. So anyway, yeah, that’s awesome. Very proud, very proud.

Sam Demma
Tell me about your journey into education. Did you know you always wanted to work in education?

David Kelly
So here’s the deal. I actually love telling this story because I think it’s a lot of young people, it’s kind of their path. My mom is an educator. She was an elementary teacher. She did it for over 40 years, which is a long time. I went to college and majored in accounting. And between my sophomore and junior year, I was sitting in a baseball game and I ran into my high school principal. And it just happened. I had a younger brother playing. And so I went and watched my younger brother play. My high school principal was there. He had a son playing. And we talked for two hours from before the game all through the game. But the gist of our conversation was he asked me, he goes, what are you majoring in?

David Kelly
And I said accounting. And he goes, oh, my goodness, that is the boring thing that I’ve ever heard of. And he goes, you’re going to be so bored in that profession. He goes, what are you doing? And he just, he kind of was just giving me a hard time. And I go, what, you have a better idea? And he goes, yeah. He goes, you need to be a teacher and a coach. And I go, man, I’ve thought about it. And I said, but he goes, let me guess. He goes, you don’t want to be poor. And I said, well, honestly, that’s probably the number one reason. Like, teachers don’t make much money. I’ve heard accountants make decent money. Um, and, uh, he goes, he told me at that time, he goes, money doesn’t buy happiness. And, uh, anyway, long story short, we had a two-hour conversation about it. Um, this was between my sophomore, junior year.

David Kelly
I went back that fall, changed my major, um, to education. And so that’s how I, that is really how I got into education. I had always thought about it. Um, had always been a direction I wanted to go, but it was just, I could never commit to it, um, until I had that conversation with him. So, uh, it’s kind of neat that my high school principal is the one that, uh, set me on this path. Um, and then now here I am as a high school principal. So it’s kind of a neat, neat transition for me. Um, but really I got into, I really wanted to coach. I was an athlete. I played college baseball. I like any kid in America, or anywhere in the world, you know, you want to play professional sports. And I thought I had, that was the dream. And I had two injuries in college that made it very obvious that wasn’t going to be the path for me. And so I decided coaching would be where it was at, but I quickly fell in love with the classroom and with teaching because on the coaching side, you really get to know one type of kid, but on the teaching side, you get to know all kids. And every kid has a story, and every kid deserves a chance. And that’s what really built the passion for education in this career and me was working with kids across all spectrums. So I need to take a drink of water real quick.

Sam Demma
Yeah, you know, it was so obvious that you had this passion for education when I came and visited the school because every hallway we walked down, every student knew your name, you knew every student’s name. It was such a cool thing to witness. How do you build strong relationships with young people?

David Kelly
So I think that’s the whole key to this whole thing. And it really speaks to our why though. And I just, I mean, I think we just have to, if you built relationships with kids, they will walk through a wall for you. They’ll do about anything for you. And, but part of it is just showing that you care. And, you know, I know that there’s kind of an old mindset of kids should just respect us because we’re older than them. And that’s just not the way the world works, to be honest. And a lot of kids, if you just treat them with respect, they’re going to show respect back to you. So I think a big component of it is modeling. You model the behaviors that you want to see, and you model the expectation that you want to see. And when you set a really high bar for kids, they will live up to that expectation. And I’ve seen that over and over again, but I think it’s just showing compassion to kids, being real with kids. They need to see us as people and not just educators. And I think the more that you can do that, the more moments that you can have with kids. Where they’re just seeing you be a person, being a human, and the way that you carry yourself is something then that they see and they’re like, you know, this guy does, he does care about me. He doesn’t just say it. But when I see him in the halls, he says hi.

David Kelly
Um when I when i’ve had issues I and i’ve i’ve been able to talk to him and he listens and um, I think those are things that you know, I think over time i’ve been I mean I am fortunate i’ve been here for Uh, this is my 15th year in this district. So i’ve had a lot of time here. So i’ve had siblings i’ve had um I actually this is crazy, but one of the girls that I, when I first started teaching here, she actually has a daughter that’s a freshman this year. So anyway, so I, it’s, it’s a little early, but I am in that point in my career where that’s starting to happen. I also have a daughter now here that’s a freshman. So, so I know some of her friends, but it’s just, I think it’s just about how we carry ourselves and how we approach each situation and recognizing that each kid’s unique, each kid has a story to tell and we can’t treat them all the same because they are all different and carrying.

Sam Demma
Different things in their backpacks. I appreciate the pulling of the metaphor and analogy. What are some of the resources that have been pivotal in your own development or things that have inspired you to continue to grow and evolve as a leader yourself?

David Kelly
So I think for me, I do like to, so I wish I was an avid reader, but I’m like a cliff notes guy. So like I like to find the synopsis of the book and then that leads me to the main point. And so I do read a lot. I love leadership stuff, anything about leadership. And I think you can take leadership concepts and you can apply them to the classroom. And every teacher is a leader, whether that’s in their classroom, whether that’s in amongst their colleagues. But a lot of those principles that we have that you can learn through those books are things that you can carry with you no matter where you’re at in your life. So I will tell you one of my favorite stories, and really it’s my why, and that’s something that I try to. Convey to teachers all the time, is what is your why? Why do you do what you do? Because, you know, you may love math, but at the end of the day, to be a great math teacher, you also have to have a passion for kids and for them being successful.

David Kelly
So, one of my favorite stories on my why and why I think it impacted me to the point that I carry it with me every day. I had a student my first year, I was teaching in a very rural school, honestly it was a high poverty district, and they had great kids, they worked hard, most of their families were hard workers, but it was just in one of those depressed areas of the country. And there was a kid and this kid would come to school every day. He worked really hard, he played football. He wanted to play basketball, that wasn’t really his sport, but he played baseball. And so I knew him from coaching, but I also knew him as a student in my class. And one day I noticed that he was sleeping through my class and he was a high energy kid and that just wasn’t normal. It was a Monday morning. And so after class, I just pulled him out in the hallway. I’m like, man, I said, everything okay? You know, are you doing all right? And he goes, you know, he said, Coach Kelly, he said, I’ve been, he said, this weekend was kind of rough. And I was like, well, tell me about it. I said, you know, cause you’re not gonna sleep through the whole day here at school. Like you got stuff you gotta do. You got practice after school. And he said, well, he said, we ran out of food over the weekend and he said when we ran out of food, he said all we had was a bowl of sugar in the house. And he goes, so for starting for lunch on Saturday, I got a spoonful of sugar for lunch. And he said he had three siblings. He said my mom, my dad and the siblings, we all got a spoon and we got one spoonful of sugar for each of the meals and I’m like oh my goodness I’m like Dustin I can’t even imagine man and I said are you I said what what do you need obviously you need food I said let’s go get you some food I’m gonna find you some right now so he’d gotten breakfast that morning at school but we got him with the counselors we got him some food he honestly was a kid that he he always kind of you know he wasn’t all he was never dressed the nicest, but his clothes never looked awful. We were able to get him on a backpack program where we were able to supply food through the weekends. A couple of weeks later, one of our football coaches, because I let all the coaches know at that point, like, hey, we need to keep our eye on this kid. His circumstance is not good. And so one of the football coaches is driving home from practice and sees him walking. And he was about five miles from the school. And so he pulls over. He’s like, man, Dustin, what are you doing? He’s like, well, I’m walking home. My parents said, if I want to play, I have to find my own ride home. And nobody would give me a ride home. And we were like, man, you’re not going to walk home ever again. Like we’re going to rally around you. So we came up with a schedule. So there was a different player that drove him home. Unfortunately, his house was a ways out of the way for everybody. But we got him a ride home every day after school. We made sure he was fed on the weekends. If the team did anything that cost money, we made sure he didn’t have to pay for any of it. And that kid, he was a freshman that year and I left after my his junior year I came to Knicks.

David Kelly
After his junior year but like that kid I still stay in contact with that kid and that kid is a he is a like a middle manager for a company here in Springfield which is the the big town close to us and he he made something out of himself and he broke that cycle of poverty for him and his family and like that is my why. You know I love finding those kids and just finding a way and really doing everything we can to make sure that those kids are successful because you know that kid had he not I don’t know I don’t know how his story ends but had he not been falling asleep in my class on that that Monday morning and I don’t take the time to take him outside the classroom and talk to him, like we have no idea. And eventually you hope somebody would have caught it, but you also never know. And so him and I are still in contact. He has a, he actually has a couple of little girls now.

David Kelly
And it’s awesome because he’s not living a life, he’s not living the life that he grew up in. And to me, that’s what a public educator is all about, is taking kids and breaking that cycle for them. And in the United States, we’re so lucky. We’re so lucky that we have public education, because without it, that kid, just that cycle just continues to repeat for that kid. And he’s living a life that he probably never imagined that he would have lived. And it’s not me. It was the school that rallied around him. But it was an educator that took just two seconds out of the day to take him outside and be like, man, you don’t normally sleep through class, what’s going on? And from that point forward, really take some steps to rally around him and change a kid’s life. And to me, that’s what it’s all about. And that happened, where I’m fortunate as an educator, I feel like, is that happened to me my first year of teaching. Some educators, it takes their whole life before they have a story like that. And I’m just, I feel like it’s such a blessing. Like that kid, I know, and he’s told me before that I’ve been a blessing to him, but I’m like, no man, you’ve been a blessing to me. Because I, like telling that story right now, I get goose bumps thinking about it. And it gets me fired up.

Sam Demma
The thing I think about often is the students who, we have no idea how much they’re going through and the way an educator is showing up is making a difference and the educator has no idea. So sometimes you don’t get that story, but the way you show up every single day has an impact. Regardless of if you find out what’s going on in the life of that student. And of course, the goal is to always get to know your students, but even the students in other classrooms that you don’t teach, that you walk past in the hallway and you smile and give them a compliment or ask them a genuine question for you. It may seem insignificant, but for that person, it could be this little moment in their day that they remember for the week or that they talk about later that evening and you go home not even thinking about it, but it was a meaningful moment for them and yeah, I think that’s what education is.

Sam Demma
All about. It’s like creating these meaningful moments in the lives of young people that help them see their potential and move forward and building better humans. Like that’s really what school is. And I just, I wanna say thank you. For the way that you show up and all of the staff at NXA. There may be an educator listening to this right now so inspired and just covered in goosebumps and they wanna connect with you. What would be the best way for them to get in touch or reach out or ask a question?

David Kelly
So, I found out like I think this year’s been the year I’m kind of getting old. So, unfortunately, I’m going to say this answer, you’re going to be like, you’re old. But anyways, honestly, email is probably the best way. And that’s davidkelly@nixaschools.net. And Kelly is just K-E-L-L-Y. There’s no E and it’s not E-Y. That’s a mistake a lot of people make. But that’s probably the best way. I do have a Facebook, I have a Twitter. DavidKelly10 is the Twitter handle. But I actually love talking to educators. I love sharing stories. Because one thing that I’ve found is a lot of educators have a story also. And so, so here and there a while. So that energy just feeds off one another and really builds.

Sam Demma
Capacity for what we do. Thank you so much, David, for taking the time to share some of your philosophies around building better relationships with young people, supporting students, making a difference in their lives. I hope that things continue to progress well with the football team this season.

David Kelly
Yeah, absolutely. Keep up the amazing work. It’s inspiring. Yeah, well, thank you, and I appreciate you having me on and giving me a chance to share some wisdom but also share that story because it is a story worth telling, and there’s hundreds of those across our country and educators everywhere, but I think anybody can make an impact on kids, and I just always tell myself, too, a lot of times we pick on the next generation, but this generation. Is truly going to change the world. They are going to change the world. They’re a great group of kids. Their vision, their mindset, I really believe they’re going to change the world for the better, but they need good adults in their life that are going to be positive role models and help drive that change and build in them the desire and the power to make the changes happen.

Sam Demma
You and I share that belief, and I think you’re at the forefront of leading the change.

David Kelly
So keep up the great work, and we’ll talk again soon. So keep up the great work, and we’ll talk again soon. All right, sounds good, thank you.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with David Kelly

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

October 24, 2024 by Education Principals Student Leadership Student Success Uncategorized 0

Pratima Burton  — Student Achievement Leader for Equity, Inclusion and Anti-Racism at the District School Board of Niagara

Pratima Burton — Student Achievement Leader for Equity, Inclusion and Anti-Racism at the District School Board of Niagara
About Pratima Burton

Pratima Burton is the K-12 Student Achievement Leader for Equity, Inclusion and Anti-Racism at the District School Board of Niagara. She has been with the DSBN for 26 years and has held a diverse array of roles that underscore her commitment to redefining excellence. Having dedicated 15 years as a secondary school English teacher, Pratima transitioned into pivotal roles such as instructional coach, secondary English consultant, and vice-principal. Her current role in equity is a testament to her dedication to creating safe and inclusive space for students and fostering a genuine sense of belonging for all.

Pratima’s dedication to equity is deeply rooted in her lived experiences, propelling her advocacy for students with diverse backgrounds and identities. While she thoroughly enjoys her current position as an administrator, Pratima fondly reminisces about her 15-year tenure as a classroom educator, where she found immense joy in inspiring student development, fostering learning, and witnessing growth. However, she also realizes the importance of the work the equity team does and the impact on building schools that are safe and inclusive spaces for all students, where their identities are affirmed in the curriculum and throughout the school, and where barriers for success are removed so all can achieve.

Connect with Pratima: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

District School Board of Niagara (DSBN)

Future Black Female

Equity, Inclusion & Anti-Racism at the DSBN

National Council of Canadian Muslims (NCCM)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we have a very special guest, Pratima Burton. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Please take a moment to introduce yourself to the listener.

Pratima Burton
Hi, Sam. Thank you for having me here. My name is Pratima Burton. I am a student achievement leader for equity, inclusion, and anti-racism for the District School Board of Niagara. So basically what that means is I’m a System Principal. So I guess what that comes down to is I’m a principal without a school. So I’m kindergarten to grade 12, but I don’t have my own school. So I think that’s probably the hardest thing about that role. I don’t get to engage with kids regularly, but that’s not my daily experience. But it is definitely a joy when I do get to work with kids.

Sam Demma
And the work you’re doing reaches so many young people and impacts all the schools. For someone who’s not familiar with the role, what does the day-to-day look like?

Pratima Burton
The day-to-day is very different every single day. We may have planned meetings where we’re collaborating with educators, with student groups around initiatives that they want to do. We may be working with teachers around resources for their classes. Sometimes we go into schools and work with students who want to start affinity groups. So it could be, you know, something different every single day. Sometimes we’re supporting administrators because something’s gone away that you don’t want it to go, and then we’re there to help with considerations and for teachers. So that’s some of the work. But it’s different every day, and I think we love it that way.

Sam Demma
Sometimes it’s challenging to show up. We are busy, we’re overwhelmed, and the thing that gets us through those difficult moments is our personal reason why. I’m curious, when you think about the work you do in education, why do you show up every single day? 

Pratima Burton
Oh, there’s so many ways we can go with this. I’ll tell you a little personal story. When I was in grade eight, it was that time of year where your teacher helps to decide where you’re going to go in grade nine. And back in my day, the options were basic, general, and advanced. And although I was a really, I was a bright student, I worked very hard, I thought I was going to go into academic, or sorry, advanced, as it was called back then. But the teacher recommended me for general. And I don’t know why I never asked. Culturally, my parents wouldn’t have asked because it would have been considered disrespectful, right? I had a friend who advocated for me and said, look, she can go to advanced, and then if she doesn’t do well, she can go down general, but it’s not easy to go up to advance. So although my self-esteem was impacted, I went into advanced and I did very well on a roll all the time, graduated, you know, near the top of the class with everybody, you know, with my peers. But it was something I never, ever forgot. And the interesting thing is that I came into this role four years ago, but this time it was her story. Same thing, very bright student, and at the time when she was going to grade 9, it was academic and applied, and the teacher recommended her for all academic, but except for math, which was ironically her favorite subject. So I just don’t want to see students experiencing things like that. I don’t want students to have the same experiences that are grounded in bias that maybe their families encountered. So I think that’s my motivator. I think that’s why I stay in the role. I just want to see some change. I don’t think change is gonna happen from my generation. I think adults sometimes, some adults are stuck in their ways. They just like things that are, that have always happened the way that they have. And we might not even be able to explain why they happen or why we keep doing some practices. But it’s the kids who are going to use their critical thinking skills and ask why do we do this, why hasn’t this changed. And I just want to support them in giving them the tools and strategies to ask those questions and look at things through an equity lens.

Sam Demma
Amplifying student voice is so important, and you’re a massive champion of doing just that. Can you think of a question a student asked or a recommendation a student brought up that sparked change within a classroom or a school board? There’s probably so many, but is there one in particular that maybe comes to mind when you think about that question?

Pratima Burton
Yeah, I could share with you something that’s very recent. At our school board, one of the learnings that we do for educators is something called an equity cafe. And an equity cafe is an opportunity for educators to come online and have casual conversations with my team about equity topics that are pertinent to their classrooms, to their schools, to their students. And this is where we share considerations and strategies around those topics. And it’s a great opportunity for them to ask questions.

Pratima Burton
Well, we just did our Equity Cafe for Black History Month. And what we did different this time was that we actually had students come and present. So, how did that come about? We have an organization, a community partner named Future Black Female. And I have an individual on my team who is the Black Youth Engagement Coach, and they go around to schools supporting students, starting affinity groups. And one of the common narratives that was coming up was that students felt that in some schools, Black History Month wasn’t being celebrated in a meaningful way. And they wanted to do something about that. So we got together, we did some brainstorming, and these were all your ideas, into a kit, you know, flags, balloons, banners, posters, a QR code that took you to a resource list of, you know, uplifting songs and daily announcements, a book list, videos about history. And the idea was that at the very least, this is what schools should use to celebrate the excellence, the joy, and the achievements of Black history. And, you know, we grappled with the idea of this being just performative, a checkbox item. But then we came to the conclusion that in spaces that maybe there isn’t much happening, this is a start. And we always get asked by educators for numerous topics, like, where do we start? So we’re saying with this Black History Month kit that this is where to start, at the very least.

Pratima Burton
Start here, put out an announcement, say, hey, any students, all students who want to come and be on a Black History Month committee, come, we’ll put our ideas together, we’re going to start with this kit and see where it goes. So back to the Equity Cafe, talk to educators, and it was like a panel and they answered four questions. Why is Black History Month important to you? Why is it important to celebrate Black excellence achievement and joy at school during Black History Month? Why is it important to celebrate Black excellence and joy and to affirm identities, Black identities, all year long? And finally, what do you as students want to see happening in your schools? And the students were absolutely fantastic. They just blew everybody’s minds. It was so impactful for educators. I mean, I can go on and say a lot of stuff, but when you hear it from the voice of students sharing their experiences, it just means so much more. I mean, I really think that sometimes as educators, we have an idea of how students move through our spaces, but it’s so different from the way that they actually move through school spaces. And I just want to elevate those voices so that students could share that. And at the end of that session, we used this Black History Month kit to challenge schools that the next Heritage Month, why don’t you create something like this? Get student voice, take it away, and share what you’re doing.

Sam Demma
There may be an educator listening to this thinking, oh my goodness, this is absolutely amazing. I want to do something similar with my schools. Is the Black History Month package a resource that is publicly accessible or is it just within the school board?

Pratima Burton
Actually, it’s within the school board. We just got together. We just Googled some things. What do we want on this kid? You know, we found a few things, put it together, and printed things, made sure they were accessible, packaged them up, and sent them away. I mean, who knows? Maybe it’s a possible retirement plan. Very huge month, kid. Obviously, that’s probably not the route that I’m going to go, but no, it’s the idea of just asking the students. I don’t think you need to have a pre-packaged kit. Just ask your students, because what students will ask for in one classroom or one school is going to be different than another.

Sam Demma
Fair. It’s so important to give students a seat at the table because it builds responsibility responsibility and ownership. And when they have responsibility over the outcomes and ownership of the ideas, they’re more excited to bring them back to their schools and take action on bringing them to life. The work that you’re doing to amplify student voice is so important. There is also right now in education, many opportunities and with opportunities are challenges. What do you think some of the challenges and opportunities are that exist in education right now?

Pratima Burton
I think one of the challenges are like all the competing priorities, right? There’s so many things that are looking for space, looking for time, and I think sometimes what happens is we focus on, you know, like literacy, numeracy, we have to get kids ready for post-secondary, and of course all of those things are important, but if kids don’t feel safe, they don’t feel they’re included, there isn’t a sense of belonging, then I don’t think they’re going to achieve as well as we want them to. They’re not going to reach their potential. So, I think one of the challenges would be time. And there’s always so much to do. Like for my team, time definitely is a challenge because we’re often asked by people to come collaborate. You look at this resource, can you come create a resource? And there’s five of us on our team. And we try to overcome that challenge with collaboration. I mean, you can’t do this important work dealing with equity, inclusion, anti-racism in a silo. And we try to be very efficient and very effective. You know, we call on our supports. If there are several schools asking for the same kind of resource, then instead of working with the schools individually, we bring them together. We do an equity cafe. We offer a workshop. And as I mentioned, we don’t do the work alone. We have wonderful community partners. We have Niagara College. We have Brock University.

Pratima Burton
I mentioned a local organization, Future Black Female. We do a lot of learning with Facing History and ourselves. And even within our school board, we have the Mental Health and Wellbeing Team, the Safe and Accepting Schools Team, the Indigenous Education Team, Spec Ed Team, Curriculum Teams. We have a wonderful seniors team that supports this work. So when you put all those people together, we’re able to overcome the challenges because we do need to elevate each other’s work, right? And when it comes to challenges and hard questions, I always remember advice that our former director gave us, and I think I heard this from him about 10 years ago, and he said, no matter how hard the challenge or how hard the decision is that you have to make, you’re going to get clarity when you frame it a certain way. And the framing question would be, what’s best for kids? So what can’t you overcome when you come together and you put it that way?

Sam Demma
On the other side of every challenge is also an opportunity. When you think about the opportunities that exist that align with what’s best for kids, like what opportunities come to mind?

Pratima Burton
Well, earlier you mentioned the idea of like the table, right? Coming to the table. So again, when I got into this role, one of the things my team and I tried to do was listen to students and see what they were asking for. And one of the things they asked for was like a student group, like a student council, but not at our schools, like us coming together, like the whole board. And so three years ago, we started the process to launch like a student alliance. And we’re doing it with secondary schools. And as you said, the idea of the table, we didn’t want to create an alliance, a group, something already structured, and then have the students come apply and join it. What we wanted was to build that table and have the students build it so they can sit at their table and to learn alongside with us. And so we started with focus groups. We had about four or five focus groups and we had students, secondary grades nine to 12, lots of representation come and let us know and share with us what they thought this group should look like.

Pratima Burton
They had ideas about who should be in it and what grades and when we would meet and what some of the focus would be and what the process, what the application process would be, how to make it equitable. So now we have this group of like the powerhouse of passionate kids, you know, real advocates who are really dedicated to reshaping and revitalizing their schools and their communities. There’s 50 students. And, you know, we are, as some graduate, we bring on new students, but this is our second full year, and they are really dedicated to creating inclusive spaces. And their vision is to be changemakers who represent and advocate for sovereignty speaking and equity deserving students. And, you know, when you give the students a voice, this is what can happen. And it’s almost like you give them a voice, they’re heard, they are affirmed, and then they come up with the next big idea. So this group then came up with an idea, we now call it the Inclusive Schools Poster, is what we call it. It was an activity that we did last year with the group, and we just basically said, like, let’s do some brainstorming. Let’s come up with what are all the criteria that you think a school needs to have so that it is safe and it is inclusive so everybody has a sense of belonging. And so, you know, 50 students, lots of chart paper, lots of markers, in groups, writing down all these ideas. I think we ended up with like over 300 points. It’s a lot.

Pratima Burton
And we weren’t sure at the time where this was going, but then they started chunking all the ideas into themes. We took all those themes, we narrowed them down to, you know, probably about 75, down to 50, and we ended up with 20 points. And we looked at it and we thought, this is incredible. These are 20 things that are telling us, through student voice, exactly what a school needs to be in order for it to be safe and inclusive, a place of belonging, so that now we can learn and achieve. We have a wonderful communications team who took all those 20 ideas and put them into this beautiful poster. And we did not want it to be decor. So now, it’s this group, the DSBN, and they call themselves DSBN IDEA. So it’s Inclusion, Diversity, and Equity Alliance of Students.

Sam Demma
Nice.

Pratima Burton
They love the acronym. So they are now wanting to create a video. And in the video, they are going to talk about the why, the importance, the process, which I think is very important, and how to use the poster. It’s not decor, it’s a teaching tool. It shares their values and it’s what we should all be aiming for. And some of the things on the posters are like, in an inclusive school, we do better when we know better. We are mindful of our words and their impact. We ensure everyone is safe and belongs. We question, we interrogate, and we take action on injustice. Like, these are student words. They’re not student words that adults recrafted. These are their words. And it’s pretty powerful. We’re hoping to launch the video in March. And we’re just so excited for administrators and teachers and parents, councils and students to see that this is what we believe in.

Sam Demma
What a beautiful testimony to student voice and case study for other school boards to involve their students in creating policy and ideas, guidelines and principles to live by. I am so excited to hear that your school board has put this together, and I hope that other school boards and educators tuning in are writing down these ideas to implement with their students. Did this alliance of the students also come up with the Rise Up Conference? And if so, tell us a little bit about that, that annual event.

Pratima Burton
Yes, it did. It did start from them. That’s why last year was our first one, because they had said, you know, like, can we do a conference? And I think it came up at our first meeting, which would have been in October. And these conferences take like so long to plan. We had 200 students at our first one last year. And although I hadn’t planned anything or my team hadn’t planned anything of that size, we knew it was going to take a long time. So we just got right to it. So the kids were like, let’s do this conference. You know, I’ve heard of conferences where kids come together and they do this learning, there’s presentations and activities, and we’re like, okay, let’s do it. So we started brainstorming ideas. Okay, what are the topics you want to learn about? And that’s where we started. After we got the topics, we started looking for workshop ideas and for presenters. We just put out all of our feelers, the people we know, you know, in the community and throughout the province, but at other boards and just friends and family just to tie in whoever we could to help us. And we offered students lots of opportunities to help us as well. But we were getting the sense that, you know what, they didn’t really want to be involved in the planning. And that’s okay, because you know what they wanted? They wanted something for them. They did not have that before them before. So we wanted to create something that was a celebration for them.

Pratima Burton
And although they did, you know, introduce the speakers and thank them and that kind of thing, we wanted them to come into a space and see that this was created for them, all of their accommodations met, and that they wouldn’t have to ask for anything. So this year, we are hosting it again. It’s our second annual. As you mentioned, the DSPN Student Equity Conference, Rise Up Students Leading the Change. rise up students leading the change. And the intent is to create a space where all students are going to feel valued and respected and supported. We’re going to work together. We’re going to share ideas. The idea is for them to also network with other students, so that when they go back to their own schools and they may have a social justice action plan in mind, the staff leaders that come with them could, you know, help them connect with other schools and work smarter as opposed to harder, right? Especially if they all have, if they have similar initiatives. So just to walk you through what that day looks like, you know, the students arrive this year, we have 240 students. They have a very special keynote speaker to this time, Sam. We’re so happy you’re joining us.

Pratima Burton
We have eight workshops, and we have lots of variety. We have someone talking about loving yourself and never giving them back. We have somebody coming and talking about having special education obstacles and the way that they’ve overcome them. We have Justice for Children and Youth coming because we have some students who are really interested in knowing what their rights are and how to advocate. We have our Indigenous Education team coming and they’re bringing a panel of their students, which is exciting for students to learn from students, especially in their first voices. We have future black female coming and the Canadian National, sorry, the National Council of Canadian Muslims coming to do a session as well. So we have lots of variety for students to choose from. So they get to attend two workshops and lunchtime is always fun. We call it our community mingling. So we have community partners that come and set up tables and offer students information on student-centered resources. And when we did that last year, we didn’t know how it was gonna go because the long table of community partners was what was standing between the kids and their lunch. So we thought the kids were gonna go right for the lunch, but when they saw all this table set up, they were so engaged and did not realize that there was so much available for them in their community. We’re also intentional in making sure that spaces are safe. So we have a youth counselor, social worker. We make sure that we have a multi-faith meditation room available for anybody who needs to take that time. This year, we have a dance group coming. We’re going to be doing a little bit of Bollywood and Afrobeat.

Pratima Burton
And we have somebody doing a mindful art activity. And of course, the food is always a big hit. We have an inclusive buffet. So regardless of your dietary accommodation needs, you can walk up to the table and there is plenty for you to choose from. We want students to know that we created this space for them so they wouldn’t have to ask. And I think one of my most memorable moments last year was just something I had the luck, the honor to overhear. A student said, I wish school could be like this every day.

Sam Demma
It is overwhelming to hear about the beauty of this event. It’s so obvious care, love, and collaboration was fostered in creating it with all the moving parts and pieces, the thoughtful accommodations for everybody to feel welcome and included. Again, I hope other educators are listening, taking some inspiration from this idea to see if they can create similar experiences or spaces in their schools and in their communities. You mentioned it takes a pretty long time to plan something like this. What is the planning process for an event of this size?

Pratima Burton
As soon as the last event was over, we contacted the facility and asked if we could book for this year, right? Because the space was ideal, it’s big, it’s lots of light, and just the movement throughout the day was so easy. They were wonderful in accommodating the spaces we needed and helping us set up. So a year in advance and then we start, you know, putting out our feelers and keeping our ears open for possible topics and speakers. And the first time that we have our meeting again with our group, as we did this year, we ask them, okay, who do you want this year? What do you want to learn more about? And we know that we have some students who are returning, but we’re also going to have new students. So we like to change it, change it up. I think we have almost all of our workshops are new this year.

Sam Demma
Thinking about experiences where students have been impacted by the conference or their experiences at school, can you tell me of a story where you heard of a student situation that was impacted by education or by an event? And if so, you don’t have to share that student’s name if it’s a serious story. But I’m curious, what example comes to mind for you?

Pratima Burton
So one of the first experiences I had in this role, we were asked, my colleague and I, to come to a school to talk to a group of students. They had been experiencing some discrimination and they felt that every time they were sharing what happened to them, they were having to almost justify their feelings. And so, you know, I’m South Asian, my colleague is a hijab wearing Muslim lady, and she’s a wonderful colleague. And we walked into the room where there were a couple of students. And there was, I believe, a South Asian student and a black student, two young ladies, and we walked into the space and we had our meeting, they did their sharing, we intently listened, and at the end of the meeting, one of the girls made the comment that, when you walked in, we knew that it was going to be okay.

Pratima Burton
And I think what she was expressing to us, and what she did go on to elaborate about is that by looking at us she knew that we had some experiences that would have been similar to hers. So all she had to do was just explain. She didn’t have to justify, she didn’t have to rationalize, she just had to say it and knew that we believed her. And that’s why I think representation is so important as well. So that is something that sticks with me.

Sam Demma
I really appreciate you sharing that story. I think it’s so important students can see themselves in their teachers, in their staff, not just the educators in the school building, in their peers, in the role models that are shared in the community. And I appreciate you sharing that story. It’s unfortunate that students even feel like they have to justify, you know, certain situations and stories, but in certain situations, it is the reality. I hope that happens less and less as we move forward as a result of having your poster in every single school, not only in the Niagara Board, but hopefully elsewhere in the future. If there is an educator listening to this podcast who’s felt inspired, motivated, energized, or curious based on our conversation and they wanna reach out to you and ask a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Pratima Burton
Well, that would be by email. It’s pratima.burton@dsbn.org. I’ll spell my name. It’s Pratima.Burton.

Sam Demma
Pratima, I look forward to seeing you in the spring. Keep up the amazing work. You’re doing a great job, and I look forward to connecting again soon.

Pratima Burton
Thank you so much for having me, Sam. And you are doing inspiring work as well, and we are so looking forward to having you join us in April.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Pratima Burton

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

April 10, 2024 by Coach Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Shane Chisholm — Principal of Father Henri Voisin School in Red Deer, Alberta

Shane Chisholm — Principal of Father Henri Voisin School in Red Deer, Alberta
About Shane Chisholm

Shane Chisholm (@ShaneChisholm1) is the Principal of Father Henri Voisin School in Red Deer, AB. He began his teaching career in 1997 after graduating from St. Francis Xavier University with a Bachelor of Science in Physical Education. For ten years, he taught Grades 7-12 Physical Education and Social Studies. In 2007, he completed his Masters of Education Degree in Educational Leadership from the University of Calgary. In 2007, he became vice principal and he was in that position for 4 years. Then he transitioned to principal where he led 4 schools over the past 12 years. 

Through those years he has witnessed the joy, compassion and empathy that each of his colleagues bring to their classroom each and every day. Finding a balance between personal and professional life has been a work in progress for Shane. He holds out hope that someday his Calgary Flames will hold up the Stanley Cup!

Connect with Shane: Email | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Bachelor of Science in Human Kinetics – St. Francis Xavier University

Masters of Education Degree in Educational Leadership – University of Calgary

Denzel Washington Commencement Speech at Dillard University

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High-Performing Educator. This is your host, keynote speaker and author, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by a special guest, Shane Chisholm, who is the Principal of Father Henry Vosin School in Red Deer, Alberta. He began his teaching career in 1997 after graduating from St. Francis Xavier University with a Bachelor of Science in Physical Education. For 10 years, he taught grade 7 through 12 physical education and social studies. In 2007, he completed his Master’s of Education degree in Educational Leadership from the University of Calgary and became Vice Principal and remained in that position for four years. He then transitioned to Principal where he led four schools over the past 12 years. Throughout those years, he has witnessed the joy, compassion, and empathy that each of his colleagues bring to their classroom each and every day. Finding a balance between personal and professional life has been a work in progress for Shane. He holds out hope that someday his Calgary Flames will hold up the Stanley Cup. Keep on dreaming Shane. I’ll see you on the other side of this episode and I hope you enjoy this conversation. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, author, and keynote speaker, Sam Demma. Today, joined by Shane Chisholm. Shane, so excited to have you on the show today. Thanks for being here.

Shane Chisholm
Thanks so much, Sam, really appreciate it.

Sam Demma
I see a Detroit Red Wing in the background over there. I guess we’ll just not talk about it.

Shane Chisholm
Yeah, we’ll leave that be, that’s okay. Yeah, I’m not a Flamie’s fan, but Detroit’s a different story, yeah.

Sam Demma
So, one of the questions I always love to ask, starting these conversations is, did you know you always wanted to be in education? And if yes, tell me why, and if no, explain the journey that brought you to where you are today.

Shane Chisholm
Whoa, Sam, that’s kind of a really loaded question because it actually reminds me of your story. I wasn’t as gifted as an athlete as you and when I heard your story, it actually hit me hard knowing about your story about soccer and your knee injuries. And I graduated from high school. I wasn’t really leaning towards education at the time in the 90s. I wanted to be an RCMP officer. I played hockey, I played softball at a very high level. So, and I was, my education was quite decent. So I was felt and was getting coached towards that in high school that that was a possible stream for me. So I went into a Bachelor of Science Phys Ed degree at my university, which is one of the areas where the RCMP came to recruit from. Because we did some of the fitness testing that the RCMP does. So in our first and second year university, we do fitness testing. So I think it’s a part you test that they used to do. And we would do that. Unfortunately, every Friday morning at 8:15 class, so it was a it was not the best time for some of my colleagues in school to test. Yeah, but my second year university, unfortunately, hockey got in the way. And what happened was I had a check from behind. And I can tell you, it was three days before Christmas I can remember it and it was eight seconds into the game after O Canada just popped on my chin strap and puck went towards our bench and I went towards it and I don’t know if I caught a rut or I didn’t turn properly but the guy in behind me caught me square from behind and all I heard was a crunch and I knew that wasn’t the door opening and that was my shoulder. And so I just skated I didn’t even wait for the whistle I just skated right to the end boards to get taken in the dressing room and at that time we had hockey sticks not what Stories from aging myself, but my trainer knew what was up and he Took a piece of the end of the hockey stick of his cut and he stuck it right in my mouth right away to chew on Wow, and I got in the dress room and from there I had a significant separated shoulder and that took me away from, I had to get reconstructive surgery on my shoulder, rebuilt again and I mean it’s brand new, it works great now, but that time period for that year or two, I lost that opportunity to go into RCMP because physically I was unable to do the fitness testing and because of the rehab I had to go through and realized I had to shift gears. And it wasn’t such a bad one. I was still in the phys ed program and getting my degree and realized that I had still a potential to do something else in education. Fifth as well, really impactful teachers in my middle school and high school years that I really thought highly of and I thought, okay, this can be a plan B and 26 years later, here’s plan B.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. And I’m wondering, you mentioned you had middle school and some high school teachers that had a really big impact. What did those teachers do for you that stuck out in your mind?

Shane Chisholm
Boy, my English teacher in grade nine just took an interest in me. Actually, just took a genuine interest in me. I had a math teacher in grade eight and math was my worst subject ever. I could not do math. And in Nova Scotia, they streamed math even in middle school. So, we kind of got separated into high and low classes. And I was in the high class and unfortunately, got streamed into the lower class. And very thankful because my parents moved me into that class, seeing my struggles, but this teacher in that lower level took an interest in my… sat down with me and helped me re-engage with math. So they actually just sat down, find out who I was, and said of me, you’re that student that is not doing well in my class. And so I kind of felt brushed aside, and I was a quiet student at that time. Yeah, no, I just found that two teachers really just took an interest and took the time to get to know me as well. And so I find that important here in my job is to find out who the kid is

Sam Demma
before even what they do in school. It sounds like sitting down with the student and making time for them is like one of the things to figure out who the kid is. Like what other things do you think a teacher can do to show genuine interest in the student in their classroom?

Shane Chisholm
I think that’s that is probably the biggest thing I know. I’ve gone to student events and and that means a lot to kiddos to go to go to those events. However, I also recognize the balance of being with my own family too. So that you know the teachers do a lot and I’ve seen in the past I’ve done a lot too where in school and so it’s just finding those opportunities not even just in class even at lunchtime. Like and I see it here in my building like my vice principal and my counselor are modeling beautifully they set up lunch dates every day voluntarily with students and students now come down the office and book lunch dates with my VP and counselor And the kids just love it and it’s not about school It’s just what happened on the weekend and they’re the kids just find it so nice to see that and I guess it’s just good for kids to see us in a different light that we that we do sit to eat lunch and we just like the chat like they do in their classroom and I don’t think they see enough of us as a person. They see us as a teacher and we are people too that do neat things, right?

Sam Demma
Yeah, they see you in the grocery store in the town and they go, oh my goodness, you’re here? You’re outside the school buildings?

Shane Chisholm
Yeah.

Shane Chisholm
The principal let you out, yeah, exactly. And I think that’s it. Like the kids love to hear about our holiday or what we did or how terrible a golfer I am. They want to talk about the hockey on the weekend. So I think that’s just, they just want to talk to us because they look, they certainly look up to us as models, but they also, you know, that positive relationship and discussing with kids, just anything with them, I think helps break down barriers as well in the class as far as teaching them.

Sam Demma
You mentioned, you know, education was at first your plan B. And for me, I didn’t even have, I felt like I didn’t even have a plan B. It was like sports and sports ended and this venture, speaking and podcasting and writing, became plan B for me. But the more I leaned into plan B, I realized I actually think I like plan B more than I would have maybe liked plan A had it worked out, do you feel similarly about the way that things have played out for you? And like, yeah, tell me a little bit more about the 26 year journey in education so far.

Shane Chisholm
So, Plan A kind of came up out of really the big plan like you say. I thought I was going to be going somewhere in hockey until about Bantam and at that time I learned, I realized that I wasn’t being watched and and my parents were beautiful about it. They were very humble about it and I think it was just switching gears and I was still good at school at that time but I was just realizing, okay I am not going to the show. But there’s always different opportunities so I shifted gears and started focusing still on my school to get to university and then like I said I had the injury and then I shifted to plan B. And plan B really took me out of Nova Scotia all the way up to a little town in northern Alberta. So plan B took me on my first plane ride. Plan B took me my first, because I lived at home when I was in university. So plan B took me totally out of my comfort zone, being away from home on a plane, no vehicle, in a little northern Alberta town. And plan B didn’t look so good the first day because I got my keys and my box of chalk. So that would really date how old I am. What’s chalk? Yeah, sidewalk chalk. I got my box of color, my box of white and my brush.

Shane Chisholm
And I was like, what is this? And I was a phys ed teacher.

Shane Chisholm
And so I was teaching social studies and phys ed up north for three years. And I was up there and I guess one of the beautiful things about being in a rural area was I learned so much about myself and I learned a lot about education because you have to. You don’t have the resources that a city has but it was a very tight-knit community up there and it was weird because plan B I thought, okay, I’ll be up north forever and the principal pulled me aside after my three years up there and he said, you need to move. And I said, why? And he said, well, either you move or you’re going to be up north for the rest of your life. So either you want to stay up here or now is the time. And the north is beautiful. It’s like, it was incredible up north. A lot of learning, beautiful people. But he said, if you want to move down to southern regions or into more of the city area, it’s time for you to move. And it was this sage advice I received in that third year in February. And so then I came down to Southern Alberta and I was about year two or three here in Rocky Mountain House. At that time, I kind of got tapped by one of the principals there and he said, hey, have you thought of administration? And I was like, no, okay, let’s give that a try. And I guess I ought to look back at it and I kind of just kind of like that continuous learning. And so I signed up for my master’s degree and while still teaching and learned the hard way though. I thought, oh, I’m getting my master’s degree and the principals tapped me, maybe I’ll have a chance at administration. And in our division here at the time, we had what we call the admin pool. So you have to apply to get into this administrative pool, and you have to interview and go through questions, and then you have to get interviewed, and then you have to go in front of a panel of five to nine people to get in. I never made it past a phone call in two years in a row. I actually failed the initial interview twice in a row. And then the third year, I actually wrote a letter to the superintendent saying, I’m not ready for this interview to get to the next level. I’m going to focus on my master’s and becoming a better teacher and a better person. Because at that time, Sam, I was cocky. I was strutting around. I thought I knew what I, because the principal tapped me and because I was doing my master’s. And I wasn’t very reflective at that time. I had a little bit of a ego kind of about me about year 8 to 10 in education there and I always look back and go why was I like that but I was and I think humbling was just learning more about what teachers do and watching the teachers those excellent teachers and how they relate to kids and how they speak to kids with relationships and how they deal with staff as well. That took a lot of, I did a lot of watching and reflecting. So it actually took me four years to get into the admin pool even though I had my master’s completed within that time. So I always tell principals and vice principals, I failed three times basically to get in. The third time was me saying to the superintendent, I’m not doing it this year. So it was almost a fourth time to get into the pool to say, hey, I can do this and want to do this, but I’m a different person. And so I tell, now that I’m older, I hopefully, wiser, I tell young principals, there are times you’re going to fall. And I said, I fell before I even became one. And, you know, I picked myself back up again and that was okay. I fell three times and I learned from that.

Sam Demma
There’s a commencement speech with Denzel Washington and he always talks about fail fast, fail forward, fail often. And I just thought of that when you were explaining your story and it made me reflect on all the times where I have fallen or lacked reflection in my actions and thought I knew everything and I’ve had moments like that, you know? And it takes a lot of self-awareness to zoom out from that current experience you’re going through and look at yourself objectively and change behavior and change the path you’re taking. And so I think that’s really cool to share because there might be a teacher listening to this who’s wanted to be an administrator for a long time and faced similar challenges and hurdles. You said that after those first two years, you kind of refocused on becoming a better teacher and learning more and even like shadowing those excellent teachers and looking at them. And like, what are some of the things that you saw in those excellent teachers? 

Shane Chisholm
Well, one of the things I saw is what I saw first in myself and was I was doing the same thing over and over again and I was not doing a good job of my teaching. So the definition of insanity, right? So, you know, I kind of compare it to my story Calgary playing fans But my Calgary flames have done the same thing over and over again for the same years and they’re getting worse Yeah, so that’s the definition of insanity So and I seen that that kind of a quote like that you continue to do the same thing over and over again you’re not going to get better and I realized I was Traditional in my teachings. I was teaching high school and I was very lecture bound, Charlie Brown type teaching and I wasn’t engaging my students. And so those were some of the things I was looking for elsewhere. And I had a very wise math teacher and he pulled me aside and he just said, Shane, you’re working too hard. You must be exhausted every day standing all day talking. And I said, What do you mean? He said, you’re not allowing the kids to co-create their own learning. He said, you’re not allowing the kids to develop or make mistakes. You’re just lecturing 80 minutes and then another class. And he said, yeah. I said, yeah, I’m exhausted. And he had taught for a number of years and he said, I teach for 10 to 15 minutes and then I allow the kids to… I teach with them and then they teach together themselves and it can be done. Like, you’re allowing, allow that trust to the kids. The kids know how to regulate themselves. If there’s good learning and good framework in the classroom. And he was so right. And in that, because I would safely say I was getting, I was marking like crazy, I was teaching like crazy, and I was like, oh boy, this is all burnout, this is crazy. And then I found a rejuvenation in that, watching the kids create learning out of my teaching instead of just listening to me. That was the biggest.

Sam Demma
And what about some learnings on managing people? Like as an administrator, you know, I’m assuming that that’s also one of the big challenges for new principals, you do a lot of learning on how to manage others. And when you’re a teacher yourself, you manage your classroom and you manage yourself, but you’re not responsible for managing all the other teachers in the school and trying to support everybody so everyone can succeed. What have you learned in managing people?

Shane Chisholm
The tricky part about principal is the actual management piece. There’s so much management, the building and they’re almost like little things on the side that kind of nitpick at you. So it takes away from the real working with students and the staff and the teachers. And so it’s finding the balance of those managerial pieces and setting them aside so that you can be with your teachers and your students. Because those managerial things on the side can really actually impact your day and take you away from what you really want to do. And so the struggle even for me day to day is making sure that I’m not getting caught in the managerial of the building and working with students and staff and getting out in the building to do say walk-throughs or even just a visibility and having conversations with the kids even at lunch break or going out and just volunteering, going out for supervision. Like, I love doing that. It’s just that the minutiae, the managerial stuff of the day can get in the way. Because we’re still a teacher, right? I mean, I’m a teacher, I’m just a teacher. I look at it as, I’m a teacher with a different title.

Sam Demma
Mmmm.

Sam Demma
I love that.

Sam Demma
And there’s also lots of schools where the principal even teaches classes, right? Like depending on who’s available in the school or if there’s a shortage that day or there’s a gap that needs to be filled, you know, it seems like principals wear lots of different hats.

Shane Chisholm
And sometimes I think you’re absolutely, I love those hats and that piece covering classes. I mean, I’m a more middle school, high school trained, so doing kindergarten is quite an adventure for me and I guess you know what it’s kind of a different boost right you get the little ones in kindergarten grade one and two they’re just absolutely love your presence and enjoy your time it’s the it’s the balance of those hats they’re there for the right reason and wearing the proper hat to be there for teachers and students and being a teacher yourself in the school.

Sam Demma
You mentioned a little earlier, making sure that you balance the amount of time you spend getting to know the students in school as you do spending time with your family at home. Because I assume in education, and I see it, it’s like you could be on 24-7. There’s always another assignment to mark and thing to do, but you are also a human being that goes grocery shopping in the community after the school hours and has a family. How do you make sure that your cup stays full and you balance your time? What do you do to make sure that Shane’s taken care of? Well, to be honest, there have been times I’ve not.

Shane Chisholm
There’s just times that it’s unfortunate that I’ve not made, like the cup has overflowed and into another cup. You know, it just seems like a quite overwhelming. I think the bigger thing is, as I gotten older in the past couple years is, you know, I get I’m several years away from retirement. You know, and I want to be happy and healthy going into retirement. Loving the jobs I’m currently in. And part of that is looking after my personal health. So you know I haven’t been in the gym in years and so I got back in the gym. I still play a little bit of golf but nothing nothing is taken seriously. It’s for fun, it’s for enjoyment, it’s for what we call maintenance and I think that’s a big piece. You know it Friday nights and Saturdays the phones put away. I know the school will still be here and I still even though I’ve been doing this for a couple of years, there are times that I wonder what’s happening. But you know what, most often, 99% of the time, there’s nothing happening on Friday and Saturday night that I have to check out. So that’s taken a long while for me to figure out Sam was that balance piece, right? And giving myself time, grace in the weekends where other people have. And you’re kind of like, I have it too. It’s just that maybe I felt guilty and wanted to get things done. And I guess looking at my practice as a principal or as a teacher, what are some good efficient ways to get my job done through week two? So I was looking at where I was getting caught in managerial things, Sam, and I wasn’t getting my principal, teacher, or principal with student work done. And I was starting to prioritize that. The managerial work will take care of itself. And it was also learning how to balance the work within the office suites here as well. So a good flow of communication between my office admin team, my vice principal, has taken, has balanced the work out, and as well ensuring their opinion on it as well. And how can we balance this all out because the whole office actually feels the weight of what’s going on in the principal’s office. The counselor and even the office admin team, the administrative team, they get the whole weight because they’re all moving pieces within the the way I look at it. It’s like the big heart it’s like if one half of the heart is aching the whole hearts experiencing it you know.

Sam Demma
Yeah, absolutely. Maybe that’s what the admin office is the heart of the school. Yeah. So I’m curious, I see a bookshelf behind you and I’m not going to put you on the spot, but like over the years, have you found any resources that have been really helpful in your own personal development? Obviously your master’s degree is a massive educational journey that is invaluable and learning it provides to you and everyone who goes through it. But have you found any other resources that have been really instrumental in your beliefs and philosophies around education or any individuals who have really deeply contributed?

Shane Chisholm
Well, some of the books on the back of my bookshelf there, I’ll be honest, those are about NHL players.

Sam Demma
Nice, that’s fair.

Shane Chisholm
I’m intrigued about their biographies. So Theo Fleury, Sheldon Kennedy, Mark Messier, Bob Iorre. So those are kind of some guys I’ve read about. Just kind of from a Mark Messier, obviously his leadership. Theo Fleury, his life and some of Sheldon Kennedy and Bob Iorre again, kind of the type of player he was. So I can’t, and as well Bob Kroeberg. So I just, and then I guess some of that was just looking at that scene you made it to the pinnacle of the top and Even they struggled Mmm, all of them. Oh, you’ve heard messy like even his struggles in New York with the New York Rangers It just it was in Bobby or I mean obviously when he got traded Chicago after he played the book with the Bruins with his knees, right we have most beautiful skater in NHL and so I think it was just listening and reading their books and seeing that even the people at the top also struggle. And they admitted their struggles and they still wanted to be the best too. And they were still learners. Those are just unique stories. And so to be honest, Sam, I read more of those books to get away from education. Because you can get really caught into it. And again, that’s why I appreciate your book as well, because it’s not necessarily about education, it’s about just growth, and mindset. And I think that’s what I appreciate reading stories about sports and athletes and similar to yours, because it talks about growth and mindset and just how to continue that. And that and that applies in education.

Sam Demma
And it applies to life, right? Whether you’re a teacher or any profession. I read a autobiography of Muhammad Ali over the summer months. And for a while I was so burnt out of reading books. And then I picked up this one and I couldn’t put it down. And it just like reignited in me a passion for reading books again. And I’ve loved reading since I was about 16 years old and I started choosing the books I wanted to read. And that one was a game changer for me. And I remember one specific part of the book that sticks out in my mind is when Muhammad Ali was gifted a bike and he didn’t grow up in the most financially stable household. So getting a bike as a kid was a big deal. And he got a bicycle and he’s driving it or riding it up and down the streets. And one day he stops to grab something at a store and comes outside and the bike’s gone. And he’s losing his mind, his brother’s losing his mind because how’s his bike? And so they start walking around the neighborhood and he stumbles into a boxing gym, or right outside a boxing gym. And at the time he was a young kid, but built like a big dude, like six feet tall, 13 years old, and this boxing coach says, hey man, do you box? And Muhammad’s like, no, I don’t. And he’s like, come on inside. And he taught him the basic foundations of a jab and some of the punches. And Muhammad ended up going back multiple times to this gym over the summer months and started developing what would be his initial start of his career. And the author of the book said, you know, destiny is a function of both chance and choice. Like, the chance was that he would stumble into the boxing gym, but the choice was that he would return back multiple times. And, you know, maybe in your career, what happened by chance was you’d get injured in hockey and be introduced to education, but your choice was to keep showing up and keep learning. Even when you got into principalship and administration, you know, you had some challenges the first two years, first four years, but you kept, you decided, you made a choice to keep showing up. And if there’s an educator listening to this right now who’s struggling or who’s burnt out and they’re feeling defeated and you could kind of share some encouragement with them, what would you say? One, I guess it took a lot for me to ask for help.

Shane Chisholm
One of the things I sense, and I hope it’s not the case for others, but I sense in education it’s very isolated in a sense, because you are given that degree, you’re a teacher, and they say you’re a teacher, and then you get your license from the province, and they say you’re certified, and then you feel the need to be that teacher, and you don’t want to, or I didn’t want to tell someone I need your help asking a colleague for that and and it’s very much the other way around I think we need to lean on each other right away as soon as we come out of university for our brand new teachers and even I see it still our young teachers come out and they don’t want to ask for help because it’s a fear that they don’t know what they’re doing. And I’m still 26 years in, I’m still learning. I’m still learning new ways to do what I’m doing. And so I still ask for help from teachers, senior administration, you know, reading your book, kind of those little tidbits, right? Those, those things always help. So I think that’s the biggest pieces to not necessarily avoid burnout, but just to recognize that there’s always someone there that’s more than willing to give a lending hand or listen to you on the rough days or to help you with resources. And we all, I guess, it’s strange, but education is very neat at paying it forward. And I think a lot of our teachers and principals and vice principals, counselors, and even educational assistants, we all pay it forward. We want to help someone be successful. And I think, and very similar to our students. And I think we miss that piece is as adults, we do the same thing with our own adults helping each other as much as we do with the kids. So lean in on those people that are there and don’t look at it as a sign of weakness, look at it as a sign of strength and joining the team.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Shane, this has been a awesome conversation. 30 minutes flew by. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat on the podcast. Keep up the great work, and I hope we cross paths again very soon.

Shane Chisholm
Will do. Thanks, Sam. I appreciate your time. This was awesome.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Shane Chisholm

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

October 25, 2023 by Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Rick Gilson – Executive Director of Southern Alberta Professional Development Consortium

Rick Gilson - Executive Director of Southern Alberta Professional Development Consortium
About Rick Gilson

Dr. Rick Gilson (@rgilson1258) started his teaching career in the fall of 1985. In addition to teaching, Rick has worked in school administration at the high school level for 15 years, the last eight as principal at Grande Prairie Composite High School before moving into Central Office. After one year as District Principal in Grande Prairie, Rick accepted the Assistant Superintendent position, focusing on Inclusive Education with Westwind School Division in 2013. In 2018, Rick joined SAPDC as the Executive Director. At work, he loves coaching young teachers, and new leaders and generally just helping folks grow. An avid reader, Rick shares passages and books frequently in Blog, Twitter posts and, most recently, the new ARPDC Podcast series Change Maker Conversations in Education.

Connect with Rick: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Grande Prairie Composite High School

Grande Prairie Public School Division

Southern Alberta Professional Development Consortium (APDC)

Football Alberta

Alberta Schools Athletic Association

rickgilson.ca

Tiny Habits: The Small Changes That Change Everything by BJ Fogg

Ryan Holiday’s Books

John Wooden’s Books

Above the Line: Lessons in Leadership and Life from a Championship Program by Urban Meyer

Andy Reid’s Books

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):

Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and keynote speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Dr. Rick Gilson. Dr. Rick Gilson (@rgilson1258) started his teaching career in the fall of 1985. In addition to teaching, Rick has worked in school administration at the high school level for 15 years, the last eight as principal at Grande Prairie Composite High School before moving into Central Office. After one year as District Principal in Grande Prairie, Rick accepted the Assistant Superintendent position, focusing on Inclusive Education with Westwind School Division in 2013. In 2018, Rick joined SAPDC as the Executive Director. At work, he loves coaching young teachers, and new leaders and generally just helping folks grow. An avid reader, Rick shares passages and books frequently in Blog, Twitter posts and, most recently, the new ARPDC Podcast series Change Maker Conversations in Education.I will see you on the other side.

Sam Demma (01:24):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today, joined by a very special guest. His name is Rick Gilson. Rick, it’s a pleasure to have you on the show here today. Please take a moment to introduce yourself and share with everyone listening a little bit about who you are and what it is that you do.

Rick Gilson (01:44):

Well, thanks for having me on, Sam. Appreciate it. I apologize to the listeners in advance. I, I am in the final few days of that three week cold cough, flu thing that’s been going around the nation, so that was wonderful. And we’re recording just after Christmas holidays, so guess what? Those couple of weeks were like. <laugh>. Anyways, lifetime educator, coach. I’ve coached somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 teams, all total, the vast majority football. Taught for about 30 years up in the Grand Prairie area. Came down to Southern Alberta for about five years as a Assistant Superintendent in the West Wind School Division down the very southwest corner of Alberta. And currently I serve as Executive Director of the Southern Alberta Professional Development Consortium, which serves the 12 school divisions in the South in supporting the professional learning of the teachers down here. And I’ve been past President, well, President, past President of the Alberta Schools Athletic Association, and involved in that pretty heavily for a number of years as well. So, that’s it in a nutshell.

Sam Demma (02:59):

<laugh>, it’s a big nut. <laugh>.

Rick Gilson (03:02):

I am a big nut

Sam Demma (03:04):

<laugh>,

Rick Gilson (03:04):

Correctly stated. Sam <laugh>,

Sam Demma (03:07):

You, you have a wall of books behind you. The listeners won’t be able to see that. When did you start reading so many books and <laugh>? When did self-education become a very important part of your life, and and why did you prioritize that?

Rick Gilson (03:25):

Well certainly if any of my high school teachers are still around, they would say it definitely did not become an important part of my life until after high school. I, I would say that I, I was I’ve been an avid reader for quite some time and now with the advent of Kindle software, Amazon, and all of that, a little bit of an addiction. So I have many books in print, and then I use the Kindle app on my iPad, my phone, and my laptop. And I have probably, I guess around 1300 books or so on there. I haven’t read them all covered to cover. I don’t know that it’s always necessary to read a book cover to cover. but I have read portions of the vast majority and all of many, and just I, on my Twitter account, I live by the adage. The more I know, the more I know I need to know more. Hmm,

Sam Demma (04:27):

That’s amazing. Out of, out of the books you’ve read which philosophies have impacted your career as a teacher the most? <laugh>

Rick Gilson (04:36):

Well, that’s a, that’s certainly a big piece. I think e everything that I read that speaks of the value of the individual to try to draw the best out of people that you’re working with. I, I have a, a personal belief that we’re all sons and daughters of God, and so if we’re sons and daughters of God, we have the, a lot of potential <laugh> to say the least. And so look for those good things and, and so everything that can help with that. I, I’m kind of drawn to and, and that goes all the way back to the works of the stoics Ryan Holiday’s books have been a favorite in those recently. But also you go back into the coaching period of time, and I have an entire section of seven or so books of John Wooden’s and, and, and on and on and on with that.

Rick Gilson (05:37):

And there’s some books where, you know, sometimes you read the book and the book is awesome, and the teachings are awesome, and the author goes on to make some extremely poor choices long after they’ve written the book. And you’re kind of like, how come you couldn’t even follow your own book? <laugh> urban Meyer would be an excellent example of that. His book is, is Great above the Line, it says the title of that book. And I, I really enjoyed the teachings. We as a, a school board and and central office team used it as a book study one year, and then last year I thought, holy cow, urban, follow your own book for crying out loud <laugh>. Oh man. So, you know, sometimes we learn and sometimes we have to learn over, and but I think that’s kind of the piece of it there.

Sam Demma (06:27):

You mentioned your high school teachers would definitely know that your love for reading didn’t start in high school. would they have known that you would be an educator and a coach <laugh>? And, and where did that come from?

Rick Gilson (06:41):

You know, there’s a, it’s a little bit of a longer story, but my father coached my father was a high school graduate. My mom graduated from high school in her forties. and I grew up in Calgary through grade 11. And my father was coaching the senior volleyball team at Churchill in Calgary, so Winston Churchill. And as I came into high school, I tried out and made the junior varsity volleyball team, and certainly anticipated playing for my dad in grade 11. And as I came into grade 11 to try out for the senior varsity team, my dad quit coaching. Other things in his career impacted that. And the next thing I knew in grade 12, we moved to Edmonton and I’d switched sports and I tried out for football at a small high school in Edmonton called Harry Ainley.

Rick Gilson (07:33):

And I’m being facetious when I say small, so about 20, 2600 kids there today. But it was a little less than that at the time. And I played for a man by the name of Brian Anderson on the Har Titans football team, and was actually blessed. And I was kind of, I was his favorite. He kept me, he kept me very close to him on the sideline during the game. so I, I was blessed to learn a lot watching him and watching my teammates play and playing a little. And a few years later in August, I was working at a place called Prudent Building Supplies, making cement. And Brian came in to get a load of cement for his backyard, and he asked me what I was up to, and I told him, I’m going into education, start next week. And he said, you should come coach.

Rick Gilson (08:22):

And I was like, but I hardly even played. And he said, look, you backed up four or five different positions on defense. You were this on the scout offense, you did all these other things you should coach. And so I started coaching and long and short of it is when Brian was inducted into the Hall of Fame in Edmonton, not in the Sport Hall of Fame, but the Edmonton City Hall of Fame. I was blessed to be invited to be there with him. And when park was named him, I was blessed to be invited to join at the dedication of that sport park. And Brian, kind of, when my teams came down from Grand Prairie to play in Edmonton, he was there. So I owe a great deal to a coach that I didn’t really realize at the time in grade 12.

Rick Gilson (09:15):

And, and at that time, second year, grade 12, <laugh>, I got to play two years even really knew who I was. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So that was great. And I remember as we coached, as I coached the junior varsity at AIN Lee for the four years as at university, that as that came to a close my last year, we had a team that didn’t give up a single point all year. And I was coaching the defense and coordinating the defense. And we got into our last regular season game, and Brian was on the sideline, just had walked over from the senior practice and the other, we were winning handily and we had all the subs in, and the other team started to drive towards the end zone, and everybody wanted to finish the season without getting scored on. And so there was a lot of, hey, you know, put us back in coach from the starters.

Rick Gilson (10:09):

And I started to do that, and Brian said, I would’ve thought you might’ve learned a different lesson from your time on my sideline when I made this mistake. And so we, and I’m paraphrasing, I don’t remember the exact words. Yeah. But I called the starters back and I said, guys, we just gotta cheer these guys on. It’s a team record. We gotta cheer these guys on. And sure enough, the backups were able to force a turnover. And we didn’t get scored on. We gave up one point in the playoffs when on a punt return, our punt returner slipped just, just barely in the end zone. So that was it for the year. So that’s kind of how it goes.

Sam Demma (10:50):

It sounds like Brian enabled the potential in you or in some ways helped you see the potential in yourself when, as you described in high school, you barely even knew who you were especially in your grade 12 year. And you hold that belief that you know, we are all sons and daughters of God, and if that’s true, then we all have massive potential. How do you think Brian helped you see the potential in yourself and as educators, how can we help our students or the people in the, in front of us see their potential?

Rick Gilson (11:23):

You know, it was a combination of Brian and my dad <laugh>. I do remember my dad walking across the field when Amy had won a game quite handily and meeting Brian at midfield as the team was walking off, and I was walking off and kind of like, oh, oh, what’s that up to, up to you now? And dad had coached, remember he had coached a long time and he kind of pointedly asked, you know, when you’re winning 49, nothing, do you really need to keep the starters on the field? And so there was these conversations that took place between two adults in my life. And, and I had my ears open and, and kind of understood that principle from a, a long ways back. And I, I think the, the piece of it is you know, I graduated and moved to Grand Prairie, that’s a four, four and a half hour drive away from Edmonton and, and Ainley and, and just at different times, you, you touch base and run into each other.

Rick Gilson (12:22):

And as I said, when I brought my teams down, he would see, he would come watch the games and and even came up a couple times for exhibition games. I, I think it’s just the piece of being willing to mentor and support. And, and the same thing applies in an English or social studies class. That’s what what I taught is just try to see the best, see the potential. Don’t overreact to some of the behaviors that initially ob be there, or, or definitely don’t overreact to the, I can’t, you know, I don’t get, I, I’m not, I don’t think I can do, you know, if we, if we overreact to those and we don’t invite people to see the potential or invite people to see the possibility of themselves being able to do then we miss a chance. We miss, we miss, or they miss a chance, but we miss a chance to positively impact the trajectory.

Rick Gilson (13:27):

Like we, we never don’t impact the trajectory of, of those we interact with. I don’t, I don’t believe very much in neutral. Mm. you know, we, we might tip, tip the nose of the plane down a little bit or tip the nose of the plane up a little bit. But the idea that we can kind of pass through each other’s life and not do anything, I, I’m not so sure that I accept that notion. So if I’m gonna impact, I’d much prefer to impact your trajectory up, even if it’s something as simple, I say to the, the youth and the team, the students that I’ve taught or coached, certainly the youth I work with now, you know, if somebody’s got a name tag, talk to them and use their name, you know, and that’s at the gas station. The hotel doesn’t matter. wherever you are, if someone’s got a name tag and you can see the name tag, then use their name that’s gonna positively impact the trajectory. And it’s also gonna make you a little more responsible for how you interact with that person. Cuz they’re not just a, they’re not just a nobody that’s Steve, or that’s jazz meat or whatever the case may be. And it’s okay if you don’t pronounce it perfectly. They, they’ll tell you, if you ask honestly, sincerely how to pronounce it, they’ll tell you and they’ll appreciate it. Mm-hmm.

Sam Demma (14:51):

<affirmative>, I’ve read about the importance of using people’s names in the book, how To Win Friends and Influence People when I was 16 years old and it, I, I bought the book from Value Village. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, which is a local thrift store near my house. And Value Village had, and they still do, they have this book purchasing system where if the book is listed for 7 99 or under, their price is 99 cents. And if the book is between 7 99 and 1499 sticker price, then their price is a dollar 99 in the store. And if it’s over 1499, then their price is 3 99 or something like this. And if you buy four, you get the fifth one free. And I remember I picked up that book from Value Village and I read the chapter that was all about the importance of using people’s names. And I went back the next time to buy some new books.

Sam Demma (15:45):

And after I picked out four or five books, they were all non-fiction. And some of them were biographies. Most of the sticker prices were 1499 and above, which meant in their system it would cost a few dollars per book. And when I got to the cash register, it was the first time I had become conscious of this idea of trying to address everybody, not just the people I knew, but total strangers to me by their names. And she had a name tag, I can’t recall her name now because it’s been many years, but I did use it. And she went down from typing or punching in buttons on the calculator to looking at me. And she paused for a couple seconds and said, do I know you

Rick Gilson (16:23):

<laugh> <laugh>?

Sam Demma (16:25):

And,

Rick Gilson (16:25):

And I said, you do now

Sam Demma (16:27):

<laugh>. I said, I said, no, but I, I would love to meet you. You were talking now. And we started talking and one question led to the next, and I found out that her daughter went to a neighboring high school, was in the same year as me. And before I knew it, we had a great conversation and she scanned all the books through as 99 cents and they were all supposed to be four or $5 each. And I didn’t use her name with the intention of walking out of there with less expensive books, but it was interesting to me because I was like, wow, I had a better experience, she had a more pleasant experience and I got some great books and a good deal <laugh>. and I think that was the first time I was introduced to that idea. What, what other tiny habits do you think are impactful in our everyday life? whether as an educator or just as a human being.

Rick Gilson (17:17):

Now, did you pick Tiny Habits? Cuz it’s the book right Over my shoulder here behind me is that I did

Sam Demma (17:22):

<laugh>.

Rick Gilson (17:22):

Were you, were you picking the low hanging fruit here?

Sam Demma (17:24):

<laugh>

Rick Gilson (17:26):

First, let me say that. I don’t always get free books <laugh>, but by using names, I don’t always get a reduction on my meal or anything like onto that. but I do get a smile mm-hmm. <affirmative> and, you know I could tell you just at an, an Italian grocery in Calgary, I, the lady didn’t have a name, so I asked her her name name tag. She had a name of course, <laugh>, but she didn’t have a name tag. So I asked her what her name was, she told me. And I said, well, that’s awesome. Nice to meet you. what’s been the best thing of your day today? And she paused for a minute and she said, well, you asking me my name? Hmm. And, and she’s got a smile. And actually that caught me off guard. That ac that kind of hit like a little bit of a sledgehammer, you know, and you’re like, whoa.

Rick Gilson (18:17):

But that, that was like a pleasant sledgehammer, I should say. Yeah. <laugh>, you know, so it just bounces back and you’re, you’re off having a great day. And I guess that segues a little bit. Tiny Habits is a, is a fantastic book. I don’t know that you meant for me to talk about the book, but the author is BJ Fogg, a professor at Stanford University, and one of the tiny habits there that, that I have been practicing now come up here in February, it’ll been two straight years where it’s called the Maui Habit. And basically every day on Maui is a great day, right? And so we all get outta bed pretty much the same way. When I speak with larger groups, I’ll, I’ll actually ask them this, say, you know, is there anybody here who gets outta bed hands first? And they kind of look at me like, no, I mean, obviously we all swing our feet out of the bed and you, and you stand up.

Rick Gilson (19:12):

And so the Maui habit is that as you put your feet down, you think a little bit about your day. And as you stand up out of the bed, you say out loud, today is going to be a great day. And then you celebrate. And, and that’s the principle behind Tiny Habit. You know, what’s the trigger? The trigger is your feet hitting the floor? What’s the action? And then what’s the celebration? And the closer your celebration is to the action, the more likely the habit will last. Hmm. And so, and, and I mean, I get up usually quite a bit earlier than my wife, and so I whisper it <laugh> and you know, the celebration can be a little shoulder shimmy or whatever it is you wanna do. It’s your choice. You decide your celebration. but I do believe in, you know, that it just states where you’re starting your day, even a day that’s filled with meetings you don’t necessarily want to go to or meetings you, you’re not really looking forward to.

Rick Gilson (20:19):

It still states that, and plants in your mind that seed that today is going to be a great day. Not necessarily all of it, but on the whole, it’s a great day. And of course, any day that we’re above the ground as opposed to six feet under the ground, you know, it’s a good way to take a look at things. But so, so that’s, that’s one that carries me through and, and trying to be somewhat optimistic. I, I think folks might suggest sometimes I’m overly optimistic, but trying to be optimistic is a good way to go. About your day beats the heck out of being a woe is me.

Sam Demma (20:59):

Hmm. There’s a, the spiritual teachers named Sat guru, and I often listen to some of his YouTube lectures, and I find his, his preaching, but also his concepts very applicable. And one of the things he often says is, you know, you came here with nothing and you will leave with nothing, which means that most of what happens while you’re here on Earth puts you on the profit side, doesn’t it? And not on a financial standpoint, but from a life experience standpoint and, and what you experience while you’re here. and it’s, it’s often a reminder for me to try and find the gratitude in everything that occurs and unfolds mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think it really resonates with that idea of starting the day with the intention of today is gonna be a great day. And the Maui habit is that because of like the actual state of Hawaii? It’s

Rick Gilson (21:53):

<laugh> Yeah, it, it, well, no, yeah, it, it’s the island in Hawaii, Maui. Okay. And, and it’s literally BJ fa like I’ve been to Maui many times some, several times with all-star football teams from Alberta. Oh, nice. And yeah, there’s a, that’s a good way to spend 10 days in early August is with a bunch of high school football players practicing in the morning and scrimmaging against Maui area teams. It’s great. but yeah, he just, he, he lives in Maui and he just says, Hey, you know, it’s a great, it’s, it’s hard to get up in the morning in Maui and say, oh man, this is terrible. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So just, that is, that’s the name that he applied to the habit, and it’s called the Maui Habit. And, and I don’t mind sharing that habit with anybody that that asks, you know, so that’s the story behind that. But, you know, we, we take with us into the next life, everything we learn and everything we experience in this life. And yeah, I think it was, I don’t know, it might have been Denzel Washington, it said you know, your hear isn’t followed by your Brinks car with all the rest of your stuff and everything else, you know, we don’t have that. So

Sam Demma (23:08):

Yeah, there’s a powerful Denzel Washington speech at Dillard University mm-hmm. <affirmative> that I find very refreshing and invigorating to watch. And one of the, one of the lines he says is, I hope you kick your, I hope you kick your slippers under the bed. So you have to bend down to grab him when you’re down there, stay on your knees and say a quick prayer of gratitude, <laugh>. And it’s a great, it’s a great speech. who are some of your biggest influences, or it sounds like your coach and your dad were two of them as you were going through school, and even when you started your career as an educator. Is there anyone else that you think had a big impact on your philosophy?

Rick Gilson (23:51):

Well, I, I, I would be remiss if I didn’t, it’s not, yeah. I would be remiss if I didn’t say that. I’ve been richly blessed by my opportunities to study the gospel of Jesus Christ, you know, and to try to live the principles that are taught there. I do believe in the principle of eternal life and things of that nature. And so those are pieces I’ve had significant leaders in church and in, and in athletics throughout, throughout my life. I think I’m, I’m inspired by just, just like me, fellow everyday ordinary folks who are, are working through the challenges of raising a family trying to trying to work when, you know, we all want our children to be born perfectly healthy and stay healthy. I have colleagues who have, you know, had a young son diagnosed with childhood leukemia, and they, and they lose that young son far, far, far too early in that life.

Rick Gilson (25:05):

And watch how they’ve handled that. And, you know, you just keep your eyes open for people of character. And I, I don’t know that names are important. Yeah. you know, you’re, I’m inspired by some of the athletes that I’ve had the good fortune of coaching. I was a young man by the name of Jeff Halverson that played football for me up in Grand Prairie and went on to play football for the Okanagan son. And the thing about Jeff is in my high school memory, I think he scored somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 touchdowns. And, and I never saw him do anything except toss the ball to the referee and then go celebrate with his teammates. Hmm. You know, no matter how big the game. And he went on to play for the Okanagan Sun and was having a record shattering, not just record breaking, but a record shattering season rushing and scoring and, and all the rest of it.

Rick Gilson (26:04):

And 2004. and, you know, I’d phone him and, you know, how, how did the game go? And that, and he would talk about these teammates. He even would talk about former high school teammates who were playing for Victoria at the time, and Uhhuh <affirmative>, he talked about how they did, and he talked about how his teammates did and, and all that sort of stuff. But you couldn’t get him to, okay, but how many carries did you have? Or how many yards did you get? Or, you know, and, and he, he didn’t bother to ask, cuz if he didn’t wanna tell you that that was fine, you know, you could read about it the next day in the paper or whatever the case may be. Unfortunately, he away suddenly at practice that in that record breaking year he still led the nation in Russian, even though he passed away in the first week of September. Wow. And but he just was in all my experiences with him just a ton of fun to coach and, and work with. But he wasn’t perfect, you know, he didn’t do well in Calm ever <laugh> the career and life management course that you had to have to graduate. Yeah. and it drive me crazy in that regard, <laugh>, but you know, they’re there, they’re, there are people to learn from all around you. I mean, Sam, you, you are how old?

Sam Demma (27:27):

 23 now.

Rick Gilson (27:28):

Yeah. So you’re 23 going on 50 with your reading and like you’re an old soul kind of bit. You know, you’re, your thirst for learning is inspiring. You know, you’ve watched these, you’ve watched those, you’ve, you’ve read some of Wooden’s work. You, you’re keeping your eyes open and you’re learning and you’re receptive to learning. Well, that’s a great example. And anytime you see that with anybody around you, people who are curious and thirsty and desire to learn a little bit more, I, I like wor learning and working with those kindred spirits.

Sam Demma (28:05):

Where does the curiosity come from? Because I think I’ve noticed it in other people too. And it’s inspiring for me as, as it is for you, even when I’m speaking with you, I, I am energized by the conversation and excited to hear your ideas and where they’ve come from. But where does the curiosity come from for you?

Rick Gilson (28:27):

Let me ask you to finish this sentence. Just snap snap, right? You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make him

Sam Demma (28:33):

Drink

Rick Gilson (28:34):

<laugh>. Okay. Everybody says drink. And, and I get that, and I always say thirsty. Hmm. You see, if you can help a horse be thirsty, they’ll drink. And, and so the same, it’s the same piece with, with our work with each other, you know, curious and thirsty. Think of those things together. If you’re curious about something, if you have a, an appetite to learn, then, then you just need some folks who will bump you a little bit with, Hey, have you heard of this? Or, take a look at this. Or, or, here’s that. Like you talked about Denzel Washington’s commencement speech at that particular university. He’s done three or four. And you know, if we just, if you and I just right now said to folks, Hey, around commencement time, it’s a pretty good time to go on YouTube and do a search. You won’t find all of the commencement speeches that are on there, great <laugh>, but you will find some. Yeah. And you’re going to learn something from those. And, and, you know, you can take a look at that. it, it’s the same around sharing, sharing books when someone says, oh, you know, I really wonder about, or I’m struggling with. And you’re like, well, you don’t have to read the whole book, but take a look at this, you know, and, and be willing to share. those, those are kinds of pieces that can help you get there. But it’s,

Rick Gilson (30:10):

It’s the idea of inviting people to think about the possibilities or letting yourself think about the possibilities. And you can do this, you can learn this DIY is, you know, that whole do-it-yourself world. well, accepting responsibility from my learning no matter what that might be, and then being open to the notion that other people are putting things out there for us to learn. And by reading about them, talking about them, thinking about them, and sharing them, we’re spreading a good word whenever we can.

Sam Demma (30:56):

Hmm. I think it’s really fascinating that you’ve taught a lot, but you’ve also coached a lot. I’ve interviewed a lot of educators as well, who speak very highly about the connections between athletics and education and just teaching and mentoring in general. I’m curious from your perspective what are the connections between coaching and teaching?

Rick Gilson (31:24):

I don’t think you can be a good coach without being a good teacher. Hmm. It, it’s interesting to me that I don’t know, I think it’s this book here. I’m, I could be wrong.

Rick Gilson (31:44):

It’s called Mastery Teaching by Madeline Hunter. And it might not be the right, right book, but there was a time when Andy Reid, the head coach of the Kansas City Chiefs, had a teaching book like unto this, and it might be this one that he gave all of his assistant coaches when they came on. And, and his whole premise was, if we can’t be good teachers, we can’t be good coaches mm-hmm. <affirmative>, because that, that’s, those two things are 100% interwoven. Now, what are you coaching for? That’s a key piece in and of itself, right? Like, I always prefer to win, but in, in everything, like, I, I like winning, I like winning a lot, but it was incredibly important to me that we won the right way when I was head coach up in Grand Prix. And so the notion that, that we can and must be good sports in how we win.

Rick Gilson (32:48):

So we won a lot of championships, but we also were blessed to win a lot of league most sportsmen, like team awards voted on by the other teams. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, you know, which is, which is kind of gratifying. It’s the same pieces as I would say to my, my players. I would love for you to go on and play junior and university football and go to the pros and fortunate enough to have a few who got that far from Grand Prix all the way to the CFL and, and coached some other kids on Team Alberta teams and national championship teams and things of that nature that some even played in the nfl. but if you’re not a good father, a good husband, a good employer, a good employee, then I didn’t succeed as a coach or, or a teacher, you know? And so with the teacher side, it’d also be, you know, I was mostly coaching guys, but when I, I did coach a couple of girls basketball teams, it’s the same piece.

Rick Gilson (33:53):

Just change the gender roles and all the rest of it. But again, you can be the best athlete you can be, but if you’re not a good person, so I, I take a look and we never know everything about somebody, right? But you, you take a look and you watch someone like a Steph Curry and how he carries himself and how he carries himself with his family. Right Now, I’m, I’m quite taken by coach Robert Seller of the New York Jets. I watch a lot of his press conferences. I am very intrigued by his thought process. And he made a comment early last year in his first year of coaching at the as head coach of the New York Jets that in the end, I, I could look it up, but I’m just gonna paraphrase on it. Yeah. At the end of every day, there is a game film of that day, and you, you and I, there’s a game film of our days too.

Rick Gilson (34:52):

And the truth is told in watching that game film, you can’t hide from the game film. And again, I’m paraphrasing, paraphrasing this statement here, but the, our game film of our life and game film in football is incredibly important <laugh>, right? But so our, our game film of our day and our interactions with all the people that we interacted with and our efforts to do things and learn things that game film does not lie. And, and that’s us, that’s just on us. It does, you know a coach looks at a game film and says, how come I can see you speed up right here on this play? Why weren’t you already going as fast as you could go? Hmm. Well, and when we look at the game films of our days, you know, what did we do with those days? Now that doesn’t mean there’s not leisure time and everything else. You’re not meant to be frantically going about day to day 20 24 7. And remember that Sam <laugh>,

Sam Demma (36:00):

I I was gonna say right before the break, I was imparted with some great wisdom over email by a gentleman named Rick Gilson <laugh>

Rick Gilson (36:07):

On the

Sam Demma (36:08):

Same, on the same topic of moving, moving quickly, but not being in a hurry. <laugh> ghost.

Rick Gilson (36:16):

Yes.

Sam Demma (36:16):

Oh, sorry.

Rick Gilson (36:17):

Be quick, but don’t hurry.

Sam Demma (36:19):

Don’t hurry. Yes.

Rick Gilson (36:20):

And go slow to go fast. Yep.

Sam Demma (36:23):

That’s so true.

Rick Gilson (36:24):

Both John Wooden’s statements.

Sam Demma (36:26):

I was listening to a interview with Mike Tyson, and he was reflecting on his journey as a fighter and controversial individual. but he was telling the interviewer that one of the reasons he loved boxing was because it showed him the truth. And I think what he meant by that was when you stood in the ring whether you did the, you did the required re required training it showed when you, when you started the fight, because if you didn’t, you weren’t prepared. And you couldn’t run from that truth once you stepped into the ring. And I think it’s the same for all sports. There’s no shortcut. You either took the ball to a field and kicked it a thousand times or you didn’t. And once you step on the field and the whistle blows, that effort shows. so I think it’s a, a cool analogy for life, because for me, when I was growing up as an athlete, it always reminded me that there were no shortcuts.

Sam Demma (37:27):

And if I wanted to improve, I could, but I had to put in the, the effort and the, and have good coaches, and was blessed to have some amazing coaches. many of which, I mean, I’m not playing professional soccer today, but many of which really impacted just my personal philosophy. I had one coach who, it was a principle that all of our shirts were tucked in, and it was so much of a principle that if during the practice someone’s shirt fell out, he would blow a whistle and start looking around the room, or looking around the field silently until we all checked our shirts to see if ours was the one that fell out <laugh>. And he would wait for us to tuck the shirt back in before practice continued. And there was a cobblestone pathway down to the field. And if you had walked on the grass and he saw you walking down the grass, he’d wait until you got right up to him to shake his hand before telling you to young man, please walk back up the Cabo Sloan pathway and walk back down.

Sam Demma (38:22):

He had the principle of shaking every coach’s hand before leaving the field, even if you didn’t know the coach’s name, or they were the coach of a different team. and it’s funny, it’s been years, but all those things still stick so freshly in my mind, and I think have really helped shape my own discipline and philosophies in life. So I, I think you’re, you’re absolutely right. You can’t be a good coach if you’re not a good teacher, but if you are a good teacher and a good coach, you not only help students or young people with their athletics, but you shape the people they become. And I think it’s a really big responsibility.

Rick Gilson (38:57):

Yeah, it is a big responsibility. I, I’d say you, you, you can’t be a good coach without being a good teacher. You also probably can’t be a good coach or a good teacher without being a good learner. Hmm. you know, so all of those things are combined, and you also gotta remember every time you coach, you’re, you’re coaching your team, but your team doesn’t play against itself. I mean, it does to an extent, right. There is a, there is an element where you need to be your best. You Yep. Let the other team take care of themselves, but the other team is, is populated with the same age. They, the other team is populated by a group of young men or young women who have parents and loved ones. Like they’re not an alien. You’re not, you’re not playing against an alien. Yep. Right?

Rick Gilson (39:58):

And so any notion that they’re somehow not worthy, Hmm. That’s when, you know, I’m, I’m more than happy to have that debate discussion with anybody. You know, you, the pre-game talk where the coaches like you know, they’re this and they’re that, and they’re this. I can, no, I cannot abide by that. It’s like, why? They’re, they’re not demons. They’re other people with their dreams and aspirations and everything else. And play the game. Play as hard as you can. Like, I’d say hit ’em as hard as you can. Pick ’em up, test them off, tell ’em, good job. Go next game, next play. Hit ’em hard as you can. You know, you gotta play your best. You gotta do your best. But they’re young men or young women just like you with dreams and aspirations, just like you, they have parents, they have families. They might have had a crappy breakfast this morning, just like you did what, whatever the case may be. Yeah. Right. But we’re somehow, we’ve got to get back to where we see that we are the human race, but we’re not in a race against each other. And this, we can do better than we’re doing. we’re not sliding over into a politics conversation right now, but as a society, we can do better. Mm.

Sam Demma (41:25):

I love that. If you could, if you could travel back in time with the, you’ve had coaching and teaching and walk back into the first classroom you taught and tap yourself on the shoulder and impart some wisdom on yourself, not because you, you know, needed to hear it, but you think it would’ve been helpful to hear this when you were just starting in this industry. and in with this vocation, what would you have told your younger self?

Rick Gilson (41:55):

 first off, I would apologize to the students that I had in the, in the first 5, 10, 15, 20, 25, 30, 35 years of my career, <laugh>. because each year I hope there’s a better me, and definitely most definitely when it comes to assessment talking from an educator point of view in terms of grading and marking and evaluating and all of that I didn’t do it differently from other people, but I think collectively in the eighties compared to 20 22, 20 23, what, you know, what I, what I know now, I would do all of that very differently, which spills over into coaching and spills over into leadership. you know, the, the, the simple fact of the matter is life is, and I’ll use the education assessment term formative, and there isn’t half as much about education that is summative as in, here’s your grade, and now we’re over that.

Rick Gilson (43:08):

That’s nowhere near as important to me now as it was made to seem important then mm-hmm. <affirmative>. and, and I think that’s probably the biggest piece. I think standardized exams and all the rest of those things, man, I’d put ’em all the way over there and just say, go away. you know, so, and like I said, I’ve done administration all the way through principal central office, the whole bit. It’s, it’s just not the piece. I didn’t get a 79 yesterday, you know, on whatever it was that I was assessed on. I don’t think I’m going to get a 79 today either. But that doesn’t stop me from reflecting on how I worked and how I did and how I interacted and how well I listened when my super amazing all-star best in the world wife was speaking. you know, I, I think that, that, those are big, big pieces that I’d do entirely different on the restart.

Sam Demma (44:19):

Thank you so much, Rick, for taking the time to chat. This has been a really insightful conversation. I thoroughly enjoyed speaking with you and hope that we can maybe turn this into a series and do a couple more parts. <laugh>

Rick Gilson (44:31):

<laugh>

Sam Demma (44:32):

I, I really appreciate you making the time to have this conversation. And if an educator is listening to this or a coach and they wanna reach out and ask you a question, share an idea, what would be the best way for them to send you a message?

Rick Gilson (44:46):

Well I’m on Twitter at @Gilson1258. My email is the one that’s gonna last for the longest. It’s probably rick.gilson@sapdc.ca. And rickgilson.ca is my blog and, and things. I’m not a, as a daily, a blogger or as frequent a blogger as I’d like to be. but perhaps that’s next in life. We’ll see. But so there’s all those ways to get ahold of me and we’ll go from there.

Sam Demma (45:23):

Awesome. Rick, thank you. Thanks

Rick Gilson (45:24):

Very much. Thank you very much, Sam. look forward to meeting you in person when you get out west here in your Canada-wide journey that you’ve got on Tap <laugh>, and look forward to working with you more in the student leadership piece moving forward. So keep it going. Like I say, you’re, you’re young, but boy oh boy, you are thirsty and that’s really fun to see. So keep it going, <laugh>.

Sam Demma (45:47):

Thanks Rick, I appreciate it. And we’ll definitely stay in touch.

Rick Gilson (45:50):

Take care.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Rick Gilson

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 31, 2023 by Administrative Support Coach Executive Director Principals Superintendent Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Patrick Bohnet – Executive Director of the Central Alberta Regional Consortium (CARC)

Patrick Bohnet - Executive Director of the Central Alberta Regional Consortium (CARC)
About Patrick Bohnet

Patrick Bohnet (@patrickbohnet), is the Executive Director of the Central Alberta Regional Consortium (CARC). Patrick has over 30 years in the field of education. 29 Years as an educator with 23 years of those as a school administrator.

His teaching career has always been in rural Alberta Schools in all K-12 grades. His education includes a BEd, MEd in Educational Administration, and EdD in Education Technology. Patrick received the John Mazurak Scholarship for his work in Education Technology. In addition, he was a Curriculum Implementation Support Consultant for 6.5 years with CARC and now as the Executive Director for CARC the last 6 years.

His background as a competitive athlete in hockey, national golf, world curling tour has helped with many years of coaching. He has coached many school teams over his career, coached hockey, and was the Director of Player Development for Alberta Golf.

Keys to his success as a teacher, adminstrator, and coach has been building relationships and having strong communication skills.

Connect with Patrick: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Central Alberta Regional Consortium (CARC)

John Mazurak Scholarship

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Patrick Bohnet. Patrick is the Executive director of the Central Alberta Regional Consortium, CARC. Patrick has over 30 years in the field of education, 29 years as an educator with 23 years of those as a school administrator. His teaching career has always been in rural Alberta schools in K to 12 grades. His education includes a BEd, MEd in Educational Administration, and EdD in Education Technology. Patrick received the John Mazurak Scholarship for his work in Education Technology. In addition, he was a Curriculum Implementation Support Consultant for 6.5 years with CARC and now as the Executive Director for CARC the last 6 years. His background is a competitive athlete in hockey, national golf world. Curling Tour has helped with many years of coaching. He has coached many school teams over his career, including hockey, and was the director of player development for Alberta Golf. The keys to his success as a teacher, administrator, and coach have been building relationships and having strong communication skills. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Patrick Bohnet, and I will see you on the other side.

Sam Demma (01:29):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we’re joined by very special guest, Patrick Bohnet. Pat and I connected maybe six to eight months ago now, and we are doing some work together in the new year, and I’m so excited to start off the year having him on the show to talk about his journey through education, but before we two, before we get too far ahead and jump in, I want to give himself a opportunity to introduce who he is. So Pat, please tell the audience listening who you are and what it is that you do in education.

Patrick Bohnet (02:03):

Absolutely. So long journey, it’s over 30 years in the, the education kind of realm. I started my teaching career in 1987, fall of 87, graduated from University. I, it’s interesting the journey started, I was in business program and my girlfriend’s dad at the time said, Hey, would you like to help coach my hockey team? And my girlfriend’s younger brother played on this team, and I’d played high level of hockey here in, in Alberta. And I had parents come to me and say, oh, you’d be a great teacher. So halfway through my four year business program, I switched to education and, and never looked back. So out of my 29 years, 23 were as a school administrator, Vice Principal or Principal. When I graduated, there were no jobs near Edmonton, so that’s the University I went to. So I, I found a temporary contract in a, a little town, about an hour west of Edmonton and that contract ended and then in fact, it’s kind of neat, the, the guy that does one of the Oilers host shows pregame and, and Postgame, I was his volleyball coach and my first year of teaching, and I’ve gone to see him at the Oilers games, and his dad was my Principal. So anyways, he remembered me.

Sam Demma (03:45):

Wow. <laugh>.

Patrick Bohnet (03:46):

It’s one of those things in, in this conversation today, it’s about impact that, that you have on kids and how you remember them or they remember you. Anyways, then I went up north as far north in Alberta as you can get in Fort Veril Vermilion. So now I’m only a two year teacher. And then my third year I became a vice-principal, so highly unusual too to start an admin program. Then I moved back closer to Edmonton, raised a couple of my own kids and was in one school division for 23 years. And then currently I work for central Alberta Regional Consortium, and we’re one of seven organizations in Alberta. We’re unique to Canada. The government provides funding for professional learning for teachers, administrators, educational assistance, librarians, secretaries, the whole gamut. And I became a consultant for, did that job for six and a half years, and then went back to be a principal for three, two years and another small town just outside Edmonton, and then back gained as the executive director of, of one of our seven offices in, in the province. So it’s been a long journey but there’s been many great things along the way.

Sam Demma (05:12):

I have a quote unquote extended family in Red Deer Alberta. Half of the family wears Calgary flames jerseys in the other half, whereas Oilers Jerseys <laugh>. And one occasion I was in Red Deer speaking, and they invited me to stay with them, and they put me in a jersey and brought me to a game. And the dad’s name is Chris <laugh>, and he was the only one wearing the flames jerseys, and it was a flames Oilers pregame. And of course the Oilers won. And the third goal, they scored, he like stood up out of the chair and was demoted to the bar area. <laugh>. but there’s so much passion for sport, and it sounds like sport has played a big role in your own life. do you think there’s any correlation between coaching sports and teaching? And if so, like what are they and why do you think they’re so complimentary?

Patrick Bohnet (06:06):

A, absolutely. So when I, I look back and it’s relationships and understanding, you know, I’m gonna say kids, teens, my favorite group has always been junior high, the grade seventh to nines. but a as a a teacher, and again, things are different now. There was always that expectation that as a teacher you kind of chipped in and, and became a coach. And because of my background, you know, personally in, in excelling in sports, it was that chance to give back. So there’s always that kind of, if you’ve been involved in sports and become, became a teacher, it’s much easier now to fill that role based on, on your experiences, you know, and, and I was very lucky. I played to the highest level that you could in amateur hockey. one of my coaches was Ken Hitchcock, who, who won Stanley Cups and coaching in the N H L.

Patrick Bohnet (07:08):

Wow. it’s funny, the last school that I was teaching in in Warburg was quite the connection because Dave Hoal who’s family farm connected to the school’s ground, he’s the coach of the Seattle Stockton right now. And Lindy Ruff also from that town, he’s also still a coach in the N nhl. So it’s was really weird that we had these connections. But, you know, nowadays it’s, it’s interesting being a principal. The, the passion and, and extra time and work that you put into outside of teaching and planning, you don’t find as many teachers that want to, you know, coach kids. It’s like, okay, I’m done. It’s four o’clock I’m going home. Which, which I, I never grew up with that there was that inner expectation and you did it, and I loved it.

Sam Demma (08:10):

That’s the interesting part. It at times can feel like a big responsibility and investment of your time, but you loved it. W why do you think you felt that passion and had that extra ambition to do extra cooking activities versus maybe today there’s a little bit of a lack of that.

Patrick Bohnet (08:33):

I, I think, you know, it became one of those, you, you don’t find out till afterwards what kind of impact that you made kids. And, but I also found it was an ability to make that deeper connection with kids. Mm-hmm. You know, outside of school, kids go to school. Do they love school? Some kids do. Yeah, some do don’t. But when you take kind of a, a role in the things that they love you, you garner a totally different respect. The, the kids, the students, you know, even if I wasn’t coaching and I’ll, you know, we talked about this, you know, briefly before, but as a school administrator or a teacher, you show up at the hockey rink or the, the dance recitals and the kids see you there. They know you don’t have your own kids taking part, and the parents are going, well, why is he here?

Patrick Bohnet (09:37):

And the kids see you and they try harder. I I it’s like, wow, you know, this person who’s a role model in our, our school has come to watch me and the parents garner a different respect for you too. And, and it’s one of those, he came here to watch our kids play. He’s gotta be a good guy. He cares. Mm-hmm. So when you had to have those positive or difficult conversations, you, you could work on a different level. You know, you weren’t this intimidating person that was a teacher or a school administrator. You were part of the community.

Sam Demma (10:19):

I saw a post the other day that said, young people spell love and care t i m e, and it’s about the time you invest in them and their lives. That has a really big impact. It’s hard to make sure you don’t spend too much time to the point where you burn yourself out, especially when there’s so many responsibilities and so many things that you could attend and be a part of, especially if you have a giving and caring heart and really wanna show up for kids. How do you balance your own need to fill your cup with pouring time and energy into young people? And also nowadays, teachers,

Patrick Bohnet (11:01):

It, it becomes a time management thing. You know, when you talk about the burnout. Yes. You know, there are times of the year where, you know, report cards or parent teacher interviews, you can’t just put Okay, your coaching duties on hold or vice versa. You know, you’re in the league championships and you have these extra practices or things like that. So it’s a matter of like preparing well and advanced and knowing, you know, on a calendar when these things take place. And, you know, the hard part too is having my own kids and being part of their lives. Mm-hmm. And, and my wife. It’s one of those balances where they’re affected too, all of this, not just your career or, or your coaching. So it’s, it, it takes some extra time, effort, energy, but it’s rewarding. You know, you, you look back and go, oh man, I, I was so tired and I made it, made it through all of that. But, you know, it’s that impact thing thing. And balancing all of that in your life, knowing, well, you know, we’re very lucky as educators that, you know, you get additional holidays at Christmas or Easter in the summer, where now you can really focus on, you know, your family and, and home versus, you know, coaching and teaching.

Sam Demma (12:31):

Yeah. It’s so true. And you can golf <laugh>, spend some time in the great outdoors, visit your grandkids happy birthday to, is she your youngest or,

Patrick Bohnet (12:44):

Yeah, Kellyann is just turning two today. And she’s the youngest grandchild and other grandsons are five and soon to be seven.

Sam Demma (12:57):

 pat shared some really great advice with me. If you’re starting to feel a little bit of resentment with the students in your classroom just tell your kids to have grandkids and it’ll all change <laugh>.

Patrick Bohnet (13:07):

Yeah. There’s a, there’s a new light around little kids and we, we just, you love them to death and they’re yours. And, you know, you can be that spoiled grandparent. You don’t have to have that responsibility of raising them and spoiled them.

Sam Demma (13:23):

<laugh>. That’s awesome. You, you mentioned some of the coaches that you’ve had and were honored to have as an athlete in education. I’m assuming you also had mentors that played a big role in your development as an educator. When you think about your coaches and your mentors, whether in sport or in school, what are some of the lessons you think they taught you that are foundational to your belief system now?

Patrick Bohnet (13:48):

You know, it’s that, that team atmosphere, whether you’re, you know, part of a team and not realize it. So I, I look back and my, I’m gonna say my third principal he was big on relationships amongst staff. Mm. So every Friday, you know, staff went to the Legion and he made us feel like, you know, he’s connected. He cared about us and provided opportunities. Here again, you know, he had family as well, but it was like, all right, I want to spend some time with you guys and show you that I care. And, and just off the record, do these types of things and, and function. So it was one of those, you build a great team, the results are amazing. Mm-hmm. And, you know, you always hear that common term. There’s, there’s no I in team. And it’s true. No one teacher, one principal can’t run a great school. It takes everybody. So acknowledging that, and I’ve always kept, kept that philosophy moving forward and you know, so that, that was kind of a mentoring, you know, impact. we had a 25 year reunion for our midget hockey team.

Sam Demma (15:11):

Oh, wow.

Patrick Bohnet (15:13):

Ken Hitchcock coached and he remembered all of us. And, and it was like, you’ve coached so many people at so many levels and he remembered like little things, you know, letting me and my buddy crawl in the crawl space at the sports shop, cuz that’s where he worked and picking out our own hockey sticks. And so it, it was neat. And he sat at my table and, you know, and I said, you were like, you spend more time with me than my dad. And he did have an impact. So, you know, I always joke and say, oh yeah, the garbage cans are getting thrown around in that dressing room. Cuz he was that kinda coach <laugh> back then. And I don’t think he, he does it now. You know, when he, his last coaching job, he had a stay with the weathers not long ago, but it, it was amazing the impact of, you know, a coach or a principal that kind of resonated with you. And I always thought, well, why? What did they do? And it was made, made me feel part of a team. I was important no matter what my ability and level was.

Sam Demma (16:26):

What makes you feel special? What does somebody do that makes you feel special? Is it them spending time? Is it them getting to know you? Like it it sounds like relationships and building relationships with students is really important. How do you do it?

Patrick Bohnet (16:43):

I, I think a lot of it has to do with you don’t try to build relationships, but what you want to do is understand how they tick. So I’ll call it all of the, the forgotten kids or the, the low achievers. I always resonated with them because I had the ability, all right, I wanna listen. I’m not gonna sit there and, you know, jam something down someone’s throat until I understood either the parent or the kid. And once you hear that, right, there is a deeper understanding of why things are taking place, behaviors, actions, et cetera. And then you work on that and go, you know, maybe a punishment isn’t the best solution or the, the solution all of the time. Maybe it’s something different. And listening was a, was a huge piece in building those relationships. So all of a sudden those kids would say, Hey, he’s listening to me.

Patrick Bohnet (17:51):

He cares about me. Do I do things special for them? Not really <laugh>, but then their behavior changes. Hmm. So that, that was, that was huge. And I had that ability over time, you know, whether it was going to see these kids doing something in their community or being part of their community, or just listening and finding out where their background is. And, you know, there’s a big word that we use in education calling differentiation. So, you know, every kid learns differently, so you need to teach them differently. You need to also treat them all individually differently as well. You know, and you sometimes you got feedback from your teachers going, well, why didn’t that person get a, you know, seven day suspension and then that person didn’t. Well, once you understood the situation, maybe the, you know, that decision didn’t warrant that individual

Sam Demma (18:52):

Time. Times are changing constantly in education. There’s new requirements being put in, in place. There’s new curriculum being put in place. As things change, as things change, there’s challenges and opportunities. I’m just curious, what do you think are some of the opportunities that exist in education right now?

Patrick Bohnet (19:14):

I, I think there’s so many more opportunities for teachers to grow within their profession. You know, when I became a teacher, you know, Mike Consortia, I didn’t know existed. Mm. And it didn’t exist probably until, I think we’re been around for over 30 years now. But knowing that, hey, there’s things that I can go to and learn to increase my professional capacity that’s there. Like the provincial union, there’s conferences and our organization. So there’s many opportunities to become a strong teacher. I think the workload is different. You know, I always look back and I, I went through three different generations. The first generation was, you know, you, you as a student, there were rules and guidelines. And if you were in trouble at school, you were in trouble at home. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then in the, I’m gonna say in the nineties when the youth act came into place, you know, that’s when all of a sudden kids are going, I’m reporting you, you know, social services, <laugh>.

Patrick Bohnet (20:33):

So that changed things. And, and then the next generation is, and I’ve always been in rural school settings, but single families, single parent families, that changed the dynamics in the education field. And then finally technology, you know, I, I was one of those people that I embrace technology and it, it can work so much for you or so much against you. And so kids behave differently, think differently. And if you’re, you can see that you have to adjust. So, you know, I’ve been a change agent my whole life. People say, well, do you still do the same things that you did? No, absolutely not. I’ve had to change, you know, how I do things, what I do. I, and I don’t say to keep up, but to be stronger at what I,

Sam Demma (21:34):

It’s funny you mentioned the three different generations you’ve interacted with so far in education. I say so far because maybe it’ll be a fourth that you consider soon. <laugh>. my uncle Peter was sitting across from me at the dinner table at Christmas dinner telling me stories about my grandfather who passed away when I was 13 years old. One of the stories was about him running onto the soccer field after dropping his son off at school because a student was screaming at him. And my grandfather ran right onto the field and grabbed the kid and say, like, yelled at him and then proceeded to go to the principal’s office. And the principal was like, Sam he had the same name as me. He’s like, Sam, you can’t just go onto the field and grab a student. This is not acceptable. And, you know, if that happened today, you’re getting charged, you’re going to jail. Like the times have definitely changed. One thing that hasn’t changed though is the importance of engaging and communicating with the parent community of the students in your school. And I’m curious if you have any philosophies around engaging parents as a teacher, as an administrator, to support the success of their kids.

Patrick Bohnet (22:45):

Yeah. And parents can be your best enemy or, or your worst enemy. And one of the things that I learned early in my career is you can gain, I’m gonna say trust from your parent community. It goes a long ways. Mm-hmm. You know, again, like, you know, being part of the community, they can’t say, well, you’re just this flyby night guy that comes in for the day and disappears. So that, that, that part was always huge. But the other part that you quickly found out is everything that goes home with the student isn’t the whole story Hmm. One side of the story. So you, you always had those difficult conversations with the parent, and I always made sure that the, the student was in the same setting when he had those difficult conversations. And, you know, I would never say to the parents, you know, your kid was lying, but it was like, you know what, little Johnny or Sally or whoever it is Nope. Tell, tell your story to both of us right now. And now that student would go <laugh>.

Patrick Bohnet (24:05):

Oh, and the truth would come out. Yeah. And, you know, and not making a big deal about it and coming, you know, to a resolution. Sometimes you had a parent going, Hmm, well that wasn’t the story that I got. I’m sure glad I got it now. And they react differently. Hmm. So then from that day forward, it’s one of those, all right, we, we need to make that call to the school first and have that conversation. So, you know, those things happen over time and, and word gets out that, okay, you know what, let’s, let’s check in with the, with the teacher or the principal or whatever before we, you know, come to running out in the field and grabbing a kid. <laugh>. <laugh>.

Sam Demma (24:53):

Yep. That is definitely not a good way to react as a parent. Take notes if, if parents are listening right now, <laugh> pat, you’ve been in education for a long time. You have lots of experiences and wisdom. When you think about your journey and the things that you’ve learned, if you could travel back in time and tap your younger self on the shoulder when you started your first job teaching, you wouldn’t, not that you would change anything about your path, but if you could just speak to your younger self when you were starting that first year, what advice would you give that you thought would be helpful to hear?

Patrick Bohnet (25:31):

 <laugh> it was interesting. You know what, I was, I was lucky that I was a good student, but I wasn’t a good kid. So not being a good kid helped me understand dealing with the kids. So I’d look back and, and, and there were times where were myself and my buddies, we would intentionally make teachers lives miserable. Mm. And, you know, call it a cheap form of entertainment. If I went back and go, yeah. You know, I, I I maybe that would’ve been the best advice. You know, there’s ways to have fun, but to, you know, whether it’s other classmates or students or the teachers, that word bullying, it always came to mind. And it was like, I look back, I was one of those, but it was, I was a bully to the teachers. Hmm. Too. And so if I, I, the advice I’d say is, you know what? There’s a, there’s a better way to develop relationships. Cause I remember my first student teaching job was in my junior high school.

Sam Demma (26:44):

Oh, wow.

Patrick Bohnet (26:46):

You know, in the lunchroom, a couple of the teachers said, you’re gonna be a teacher. And I go, yeah, I hope you get some of what you gave us <laugh>. And, and, and it’s, it’s true. Like it was, you know, I didn’t need to do those things. You know, it didn’t gain me any respect from my peers. They probably looked at me and said, oh, you were a jerk. So yeah. That, that would be the advice. <laugh>,

Sam Demma (27:17):

I appreciate the honesty and transparency. I think we can all reflect on a time where we’re not proud of actions that we took. I was suspended when I was in grade seven. But I think it’s those situations where we, if we choose to reflect on our choices, where we learn the most and develop the most as people, and I’m sure those same teachers who in your first year teaching talked to you in the lunchroom, are now a lot of your respected peers. and hopefully some of your friends, are close friends. But Pat, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast. Share a little bit about yourself, your journey, your beliefs around education. This was an awesome conversation. If an educator listening wants to reach out, ask a question, suggest you switch the hockey team that you currently cheer for or invite you out to play a round a golf, what would be the best email for them to reach out?

Patrick Bohnet (28:14):

Actually what’s my favorite sport, Sam, that I play

Sam Demma (28:20):

It’s golf, right?

Patrick Bohnet (28:21):

Yeah. So my personal email is golfbum@telus.net. That, that would be the easiest one if you’re, you’re looking, you know, outta the profession. And then, you know, I do have my work one which is pbohnet@carcpd.ab.ca. If you’re looking for know some professional learning or professional advice, there you go.

Sam Demma (28:50):

Awesome. Patrick, thank you so much for coming on the show. Keep up the great work and I’ll talk to you soon.

Patrick Bohnet (28:55):

Yes. Looking forward to February. We’ll see you soon, Sam.

Sam Demma (28:58):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 31, 2023 by Coach Executive Director Principals 0

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