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Teaching Tips

Darrell Bergmann – Athletic Director at Boyle Secondary School

Darrell Bergmann - Athletic Director at Boyle Secondary School
About Darrell Bergmann

Darrell Bergmann is extremely passionate about athletics and keeping himself and his students healthy. He is also the Athletic Director at Boyle Secondary school. We met after he watched me speak at a teacher’s convention and as a result, this episode was created!  Enjoy. 

Connect with Darrel: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Boyle Secondary School Website

#funsockfriday

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, San Demma. I’m super excited to bring you today’s episode. Our special guest is Darrell Bergmann. He is someone that I met after doing a presentation to a group of teachers at a teacher association. He is someone that believes in the power of pushing yourself physically.


Sam Demma (01:00):
What you’ll hear about on our phone call today; he’s the athletic director of Boyle Secondary School and activity, physical activity is something that he holds very close to his heart. I hope you enjoy today’s episode where we talk about engaging students virtually in this new environment, especially related to gym class and how he is helping to keep his students fit during this crazy time. I’ll see you on the other side. Enjoy! Darryl, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by sharing a little bit about yourself and why you got into the work in education that you’re doing today?


Darrell Bergmann (01:37):
I guess Darrell Bergmann teaching in Boyle, I’ve been a teacher for about 20 plus years now. I got into teaching because I thought to myself, geez, it’d be pretty cool to spend all day in a gym, playing dodgeball and basketball and games with kids. I figured that out when I can remember distinctly is at my grandma and grandpa’s house and we were watching NFL playoffs, and one of my uncles says to me, what are you gonna do when you get older? And I thought to myself hmm, phys-ed teacher. Summer’s off and you get paid to play games. So ever since grade eight summer holidays, I think it was, I knew I wanted to be a teacher in 20 years and best job ever.


Sam Demma (02:17):
I love that. And that’s what got you in. I’m curious to know what keeps you in it?


Darrell Bergmann (02:22):
Oh, the kids hands down on the kids. I, I, so I work at a K to 12 school and I teach PHED, I’ve taught PHED from kindergarten to grade 12 and it’s the kids, just the energy they bring to school every day. And the way I look at it is I get to help them learn to be good people and they wanna be good people. And just those converse conversations and interactions with them every day. It’s just, I don’t know. It helps keep me young. So it’s the kids hands down.


Sam Demma (02:51):
Now I’m curious to know throughout your own journey as a student, before you decided to get into teaching, did you have any educators, gym teachers, coaches that slightly pushed you in this direction, or was this solely a decision you made based off your own personal ideas and experiences?


Darrell Bergmann (03:06):
So I never had any coaches or teachers push me into the field of education. I just, I, I, I can remember as young back as grade three, I always looked at the schedule for the day and I always looked where was PhysEd class during the day. And to me that I just I’ve always loved being active playing games and competing and doing all that stuff. And just, I don’t know, it was just a natural attraction to be a PhysEd teacher.


Sam Demma (03:33):
Which makes sense as to why you run 70 kilometers a week.


Darrell Bergmann (03:37):
That’s for fun to have.


Sam Demma (03:40):
So why do you think it’s important to keep challenging yourself as you grow? Like I, I mean, you mentioned earlier before this call that you, you like running because it’s, it’s a way to challenge yourself. Why do you think that’s important?


Darrell Bergmann (03:52):
Oh, just to stay motivated. Like you always gotta find something. Whether, you know, whether it’s running, whether it’s cooking, whether it’s a sport, give yourself a purpose just to get the most outta every day. You, you, you everyone’s gotta find that unique thing. And for everyone it’s something different. And for people, it changes over time. Like I said before, we got started here back when I was younger, I absolutely despised running. I couldn’t stand, I didn’t understand why people did it. And now it’s like the one activity I do more than anything else besides, you know, being a PHY ed teacher is I love to run.


Sam Demma (04:25):
Ah, that’s so awesome. And I would assume that being an athletic director as well at the school, you encourage all the students and kids to do similar stuff, or are they running kilometers and, and letting you know?


Darrell Bergmann (04:38):
So like my kind of my big goal for all my PhysEd classes, try to introduce the kids to as many different activities so they can pick the one that they are gonna continue for the rest of their life, whether it’s Bochy ball or volleyball or basketball or whatever it is, it doesn’t have to be running for them, whatever they’re doing, if they enjoy it and it’s get, and they’re getting some exercise go to the deal that doesn’t matter to me. So whatever it is for them, you know, as long as they’re having fun.


Sam Demma (05:07):
Oh, I love that. And how do you think you’re still making personal relationships and connections with students dealing with some changes in education this year? Are all of your students still in class? Are you able to all see each other? What does education look like and how are you still managing to of those strong relationships?


Darrell Bergmann (05:23):
So our school, we have been lucky. We have been basically open like other than the inception of COVID where kind of everyone closed down our school. We’re a small school in Northern Alberta and we’ve been lucky. We’ve been pretty much regular classes online. We’ve had a few hiccups here and there, but for the most part we’ve been in session. Now it’s not exactly the same as it was pre COVID. I mean, there’s a lot more protocols and we have to do things as safe as we can, but I don’t know the kids are going through it. We’re going through it. We’re just trying to make our way as best we can. And you just, I don’t know, to, to me, kid, to me, kids are people and they want you just, you talk to them like they’re a person and you just, you keep making those connections and everyone’s in it together. And just trying to get through this as best we can. Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t know if that answered your question at all,


Sam Demma (06:14):
Sam. Yeah, no, it does. You know, it treat human, treat them like they’re human beings and adults and, and they’ll reciprocate that energy for you, I would assume. That’s awesome. And if you could go back and speak to your younger self, like when you first started teaching, knowing what you know now with the wisdom you have, what advice would you give?


Darrell Bergmann (06:35):
Oh, advice I, to inexperienced teachers is they’ve gotta figure out what works for them. And they’ve gotta figure out how to connect with students in their own way and what works for me. Isn’t gonna work for John or Jim or Julie. Everyone’s gotta kind of be themselves to, to create those you know, positive connections with the kids that you know, that that’s unique to them cuz everyone has their own style. So it’s it’s you gotta be you and you gotta connect with kids at your own way.


Sam Demma (07:06):
I love that. And in terms of connecting with students, sometimes we see the impact we make. Sometimes we don’t, sometimes it happens 20 years later when they send you a handwritten note. Sometimes it happens the day after something you said they come in class and tell you how much of an impact it had. Do you have any stories of student transformation, whether in your class or in your school that you have seen that have inspired you and reminded you why this work is so important? And the reason I’m asking is because I think right now, some teachers listening might be burnt out and forgetting why they actually got into teaching and a story of transformation might remind them why they’re doing the work they’re doing. And you can change the student’s name if it’s a very personal story. But I’m curious to know if anything kind of comes to mind.


Darrell Bergmann (07:49):
Well at my school we have we it’s called work experience. The students get credits for our, and they cut. They help out with different roles at the school. Nice. So me being the PHY ed teacher, it’s always helpful to have a student or two help you with set up, clean up refereeing. Joining in. I had one student, I won’t, I won’t name the student, but so we were, we were outside playing slow pitch, pre COVID. And I got nailed in the side of a head by a, by one of the balls we were using. Oh wow. And the student was about 60 yards away and they’re like, oh, I accidentally hit you. And it was, it was like in a crowd of about 30 kids. And I’m thinking to myself, I don’t know how this could be an accident. well, and then the next day he kind of made a joke about, you know, oh, how’s your head.


Darrell Bergmann (08:36):
And then the next year he wanted to be my work experience student. I kind of hum. And I thought, you know what, I’m gonna give him a chance. And I’ll tell you what, he turned out to be one of my best work experienced students ever. Like, so it’s just giving him a chance. Kids do dumb things sometimes. And, and you never know, you don’t always see it or you can’t always expect it, but you never know when that difference is gonna be. So for me, just taking that chance on that guy who nailed me in the side of the head, 60 yard, Sam and it, and at the time he didn’t seem too sorry, the next day he wasn’t very sorry at all. Yeah. But I gave him that chance. And boy, we actually, we, we got a real good relationship now where every day see each other, we say, Hey, how’s it going? He’s not my work exp experienced student anymore. But it just, you know, he gave him that chance and he came through and I gotta give him full credit for that.


Sam Demma (09:24):
Oh, I love that. There’s so much wisdom in this. So, you know, treating students like humans and adults, giving students a chance to own some responsibility and to challenge them the same way you would challenge yourself when you’re running. And you might just be surprised what a young person is capable of. Would you agree?


Darrell Bergmann (09:42):
Oh, 100%. They, they want so like, like it’s funny cuz when I first started teaching, I never wanted to teach junior high, the old, you know, they’re all kind of attitudey and moody and, and they’re gonna talk back and stuff and it’s just, they want to fit in. They wanna be like they want and, and not just their peers, but they want teachers to like them. And it’s, they’re, they’re struggling with making good choices on a daily basis. And that, you know, as a teacher, we get to help them learn what you can and cannot do. And you know, sometimes you can have a little bit of fun, but sometimes you gotta work so that I, I that’s just a reward every day, helping them be, you know, positive people and citizens and you know, good people.


Sam Demma (10:24):
I love that. Cool. Darrell or AKA Berg. thank you so much for coming on the show. Appreciate it. If another educators listening wants to reach out, maybe ask you a question or chat about this conversation, what would be the best way for them to, to contact you?


Darrell Bergmann (10:41):
To contact me? well, I’m on the TikTok @bergs_27. I got a cult following on there. I’m trying to start the fun stock Friday movement. So if you look at #funsockfriday, you’ll definitely find me there. Cool. You can, could shoot me an email Darrell.Bergmann@aspenview.org. Gosh, I better spell my name. No one will spell that correctly. Darrell.Bergmann@aspenview.org. And I’m freshly on the Instagram as well. That’s a new one for me, but yeah, I definitely love to hear feedback from people.


Sam Demma (11:18):
Awesome. Darrell, thank you so much for doing this. Really appreciate it, and keep it up with the awesome work. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Darrell Bergmann

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Chris McCullough – Teacher and Vice-Principal in Red Deer, Alberta

Chris McCullough - Teacher and Vice-Principal in Red Deer, Alberta
About Chris McCullough

Chris McCullough (@mccullough9) is a Teacher / Vice-Principal in beautiful Red Deer, Alberta.  Chris has a broad range of educational experiences, having taught in elementary, middle school, and high school in mainstream programming, as well as in inclusive education and behaviour management programs. 

Chris is actively involved in the community by volunteering his time to coach hockey, ringette and baseball. Additionally, Chris works alongside teachers from across Alberta to organize the annual Alberta Teachers’ Association (MYC) Middle Years Conference.  

Chris’ wife Kristie is also a teacher and they have 3 teenage children to keep them busy.  

Connect with Chris: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Alberta Teacher’s Association (ATA)

Alberta Teachers’ Association (MYC) Middle Years Conference

Chris’s Personal Blog: thepocketeer.blogspot.com

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Chris McCullough. Chris is a teacher and vice principal in beautiful Red Deer, Alberta. He has a broad range of educational experiences having taught in elementary, middle school and high school in mainstream programming, as well as in inclusive education behaviour management programs.


Sam Demma (01:03):
He has a very interesting start in education as well, which I think you’ll really enjoy hearing about on the podcast. Chris is actively involved in the community by volunteering his time to coach hockey, ringette, and baseball. He also refs and he’s been a ref for a long time, which is something that I learned about on the podcast. And he also works alongside teachers from across Alberta to organize the ATA. The Alberta teachers associations middle years conference. Chris’s wife Christie is also a teacher and they have three teenage children to keep them extremely busy. I hope you enjoy today’s podcast interview with Chris and I will see you on the other side. Chris, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. You know, one of the NHLs free agents as I’ve heard, why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about why you got into the work you’re doing in education today.


Chris McCullough (02:00):
Wow. That’s a long podcast you’re in for . As you said, I’m Chris McCullough. I’m in Red Deer, Alberta, Canada, and I grew up in central Alberta, just south of red deer in a town called Olds. And I’m hearing the question as, why am I a teacher? And I guess as a, a child myself, I always enjoyed running around and playing with my young cousins and stuff like that so it seemed like a good fit. I got, I got along well with people and you know, I’ve got to I’m not saying I love every aspect of my job, but , I do enjoy coming to school every day and working with kids and how many people get to say they get paid to do that every day. So


Sam Demma (02:42):
I love that. And being that you were someone and who enjoyed, you know, spending time with your younger cousins, that passion could have taken you in various directions, social work could have taken you to camp counseling, could have became, you know a youth speaker, like there’s when, when it comes to working with young people, there’s so many different ways that you can impact them. What drew you towards, like teaching specifically? Was there teachers in your life that inspired you? Or did you just say, let me try this and see how it goes?


Chris McCullough (03:12):
I think it was a couple things for me. One was I think just naturally as a relational person, I wanted to work with people. Yeah. If you were to read my high school yearbook, it would say that I was gonna be a golf course, superintendent, interesting position, a job that runs in my family. Okay. My dad actually taught that at a small college at old college turf grass management. And that was the plan, but I think him being a teacher I himself kind of pushed me in that direction. And, and actually I had a teacher I mean, I wasn’t as well put together as you are Sam at 21, I was still making bad decisions. and I remember my grade 12 teacher asking me what I was doing in his math class, because I really was kind of being your response and I didn’t need that class to be a golf course. Superintendent was what he said to me and he was absolutely right. And after that moment, I kind of decided that I was gonna pursue education and being a teacher. And along the way, I had a few bumps and bruises, but I ended up meeting my wife and she helped me a lot get through university. And the next thing, you know, go through the interview process and you get a job and here I am, 19 years later,


Sam Demma (04:31):
Happy international woman’s day, right. yes,


Chris McCullough (04:33):
Yes.


Sam Demma (04:35):
For sure. That’s awesome. Very cool. And when you first started, what were you teaching and how did the journey kind of evolve? I know somewhere along the way, you decided to get involved in the Alberta teachers association and really spearheaded some cool events and initiatives with the organization.


Chris McCullough (04:51):
Yeah. Along the way, I, my first job was a maternity leave. I taught grade six. Nice. And that led to which was at the time middle school age. And then in my, my school division, they, they opted to build some middle schools and moved to the middle school philosophy more formally. So there was a big middle school conference and a lot of teachers at that level were going to it and, and my wife ended up going and just, I think, I think my principal did allow me to go to the conference, even though I, I wasn’t necessarily guaranteed a job the next year, but I, I did go. And from that point on, I was really involved in middle school philosophy cause I ended up getting a position later in June that year. And then of course my involvement with the middle years council has been pretty consistent for, I could say 17 in my 19 years just in different roles and wow, largely it just comes from our core group of friends that worked on the conference and a desire to, to create a, you know, an event for teachers every year in a local context, I also got involved with my ATA, the ATA provincial and local and a variety of things at the time in our school division, I believe there was no vice president of the ATA local, and I just was off for that position and like a dummy, someone who didn’t know his AST from his elbow, he took it.


Chris McCullough (06:23):
And and I think it was a second year teacher at the time. And then of course the president had me at that point. So he retired and moved on to other things. And then I became the president of the, the red Catholic local. And I just learned a ton of great things. I, from some really great superintendents, I were, I worked with some great teachers on ATA stuff, union stuff, association stuff. And that was in red deer and Edmonton and Calgary. And that’s just been a nice bit with the middle years council as well. So I’ve always kept busy with that.


Sam Demma (06:55):
That’s awesome. And when you, initially we decided to take on one of the roles with the middle years council, was it because someone tapped you on the shoulder and said, you’d be great for this? Or you just saw the opportunity and decided I’m gonna try this out.


Chris McCullough (07:09):
I remember a colleague yeah. Tapped me on the shoulder and you should try it. Sure. And then I, one of the principals in my school division, I asked him if this was a good, I did because it was getting pretty real. And his answer at the time was, yeah, you’re gonna learn, you’re gonna learn a lot. So I’m probably guilty of getting too involved and, and having too many irons in the fire, if you will, cuz I have three kids on my own and I like to coach their sports and I’ve always been involved in that stuff. So again, it’s international. I couldn’t have done any of these things without support of my life, but overall I’ve learned a ton and yeah, I, I wouldn’t change anything that’s for sure.


Sam Demma (07:50):
Ah, that’s awesome. That’s, that’s such a good way to look at it over the years. I’m sure there’s been changes in teaching and education, especially when you introduce a global pandemic over the past year and a half. How has education shifted in your school area or in your school over the past year and a half? And what are some of maybe some of the challenges you’ve faced or have started to overcome?


Chris McCullough (08:17):
Yeah, so many challenges, honestly, I think as I look back over the, the course of the year, cuz I guess just almost a year to the day that we left school in Albert anyway and had that pause and shift to online education, I’m pretty proud of the work that teachers have done. And in my seat here as a vice principal, yeah. I, again, I work with some really great teachers that pivoted and really made that experie for the students. So that would’ve been March to June of last year. And then again, this year we’ve had our challenges with classes and situations where whole classes have to go home. But you know, at the end of the day, just the ability of these teachers to, to pivot and, and make it work for their students. Now I’m amazed every day by ’em to be honest. And it’s good to see. And I think moving away from that question, I guess broader in my 19 years, I, I think teachers in education improved a lot in terms of assessment practices, relationship with kids and understanding trauma and how that impacts student learning. I, I think we’re just getting in as a whole, whole lot better at meeting kids where they’re at and helping them with their needs. So


Sam Demma (09:33):
I love that and I, I would agree too. I think this, especially this year, the forced innovation through the pandemic has forced all of educators in education to focus on what matters most. And I think what’s been highlighted is the fact that the relationships are so important and sometimes building those virtually is a little more difficult. But how do you think schools or even educators can, you know, make their students feel heard, valued and appreciated. Now in, in this situation, is it a matter of checking in with the students on a daily basis or a weekly basis just tapping them outside of class saying, Hey, how are you? Is there anything we can help you with? Or from your perspective, what do you believe is the most important thing for educators to continue doing?


Chris McCullough (10:19):
I think from my perspective, you know, relationships matter, I, I once had a principal and she told me the number one thing she looks for in a teacher is their her or their ability rather to build relationships with students. Mm. The rest of it, you can kinda teach. And I, and I’ve seen that in a of tweet here and there, how important relationships are, whether it’s Sam or Robinson or, you know, it just matters a lot how you treat people. And I’m not saying you have to be nice to everyone because I think that’s a very broad term. And some teachers are very strict at the same time. They’re very effective and they, they don’t disrespect anyone. Yep. And other people, you know, are very good with people and maybe they can improve that they’re teaching. So I’ve kind of seen a lot of that too. So yeah, I think overall people care about kids and they, they work to make their school successful.


Sam Demma (11:16):
Ah, I love it. Very cool. And if you could, if you could travel back in time and speak to first year, Chris, when you just started teaching, knowing what you know now and with the wisdom you’ve gained and garnered, what would you tell your younger self?


Chris McCullough (11:32):
I would tell my younger self to listen, listen, slow down and listen. Nice. There’s a ton of knowledge. And I think, yeah, I guess as I’ve gotten older, I’ve gotten more mature, but you know, my school’s really focused on mindfulness this year from a school improvement plan perspective. Nice. We’ve done a lot of work on trauma training too, but you know, I think just learning to breathe and learning to pause, really look at situations in a whole context is an important skill for anyone, for me, for kids, for anyone. So we’ve done a lot of work on that. And I, I think if I was talking to my former self, I would’ve been more mindful of really not so much kids because I was always good with kids. And I feel like I connected with them well, but just being this is the wrong word, but sympathetic to maybe me being a little more understanding of what my former principals were trying to achieve and more or superintendents and current superintendents and politicians even I think at the end of the day, everyone wants schools and kids to be successful people. So yeah, just focus on listening and, and trying to make it work for everybody.


Sam Demma (12:48):
Love that. So cool. And I’m sure over the years teaching you’ve seen student transformation. I think that one of the coolest things about education is that it can change a student’s life. Now, sometimes you water that seed and it doesn’t flourish for 20 years. You might not ever know the impact you had. Or 20 years down the road, a kid writes you a note, letting you know that this one thing you said in class totally changed his life. Sometimes you hear about them, sometimes you don’t. I’m curious to know though, have you seen any student transformations within your school? Within the 20 so years you’ve been in education. And the reason I’m asking is because another teacher might be listening to this, burnt out, forgetting why they got into education and sharing a transformative story. Might remind them why they’re doing the work they’re. And if it’s a serious story, by all means you can rename the person to Chris or Sarah or change their name for privacy reasons.


Chris McCullough (13:44):
Yeah. I, to be honest story, I’m thinking of, I can’t even think of the kid’s name right now, thats. Okay. It was a high school situation and he was very struggling with school in general. He hated a, he hated school. He hated being there. And this is a great 11 boy who was in tears. I, I wasn’t even his teacher, I don’t think. Yeah. Other than one course like an option course. Anyway, he was balling his eyes out to me and we long story short, we, we changed his timetable so that he could do work experience cause he wanted to be a welder . So we got him outta school in the afternoons and set him up with a company. I don’t know if it was his dad’s company or a company his dad was kind of familiar with and you know, he loved it.


Chris McCullough (14:26):
He could come to school in the morning to leave at lunch. He started, started working on getting his ticket for, for welding. I think it was. And you know, I think that situations like that, making school work for someone, so he had a kid crying and in tears, that’s super frustrated to a situation where he is just happy, happy he can leave at lunch, go make some money. And I assume he is still working in the trades, which I think is a great avenue for a lot of students. And I think schools worry a little too much about academics sometimes where there’s lots of different possibilities where people can you know, think about their future.


Sam Demma (15:06):
Yeah, totally agree. I love it. And my dad’s a plumber and he loves his job and he builds homes. So there’s yeah, there’s so many, there’s no one pathway for all students. And I think it’s important to remember. So I love that you shared that story. If an educator listening or someone listening is, is enjoying this conversation is inspired by, it wants to have a conversation with you. Maybe Talk about your, your fandom for Calgary flames or star wars. what would be the best way for them to reach out to you and connect?


Chris McCullough (15:37):
Probably, I hesitate to say it a little bit because I find it to be a very angry place these days but Twitter is probably the best place to reach out. My handle’s @McCullough9 and I like Twitter. I find, I’ve learned a lot from it. There’s lots of good articles and inspirational messages and stuff like that. Sometimes I get caught up in the politics of the day or whatever and, and I’ve had to really reflect on what that looks like. But overall I think social media is a powerful force. It is a two-way sword and I enjoy it, but sometimes I have to take a, take a break from it and stuff like that. That’s kind of the best place, I guess, to find me.


Sam Demma (16:20):
All right. Got it. And what’s the first thing you’re looking to looking forward to once COVID ends.


Chris McCullough (16:26):
I think just general social situations, you know, being with family and friends and not having to worry about masks and social distancing and all that kind of stuff so sign me up for a vaccine as soon as you can get it, Sam, you know.


Sam Demma (16:43):
I’ll send it your way if I do. All right, Chris, thank you so much for taking the time to chat. I appreciate it. And look forward to talking to you soon and hopefully meeting you in Banff one day.


Chris McCullough (16:53):
Cool Sam. Take care of yourself and thanks for doing this.


Sam Demma (16:58):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show, if you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities and I promise, I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Chris McCullough

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Tom Yonge – Leadership Teacher and Speaker at Edmonton Public Schools

Tom Yonge - Leadership Teacher and Speaker at Edmonton Public Schools
About Tom Yonge

Tom Yonge (@TomYonge) is the Department head of Leadership at Strathcona High School in Edmonton, AB.  The heart of his leadership model is service work and in the last 12 years, the program has raised over $3.5 million dollars for local and global charitable organizations.  Through these initiatives, the students have learned important life lessons and the emotional reward of giving back.  

Connect with Tom: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Bachelor in Physical Education Program at University of Alberta

Strathcona High School Website

Think and Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill

Catch Them Being Good: Everything You Need to Know to Successfully Coach Girls

The Power of Moments by the Health Brothers

Canadian Student Leadership Association (CSLA)

Canadian Student Leadership Conference (CSLC)

Alberta Association of Students’ Councils and Advisors (AASCA)

Alberta Student Leadership Summit (ASLS)

Leadership Retreat Ideas

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. I’m super excited about today’s interview. Our guest is Tom Yonge. He is a leadership teacher, speaker, and workshop facilitator at Edmonton public schools. He has such a diverse experience working within leadership and within schools. Currently he is a department head of student activities and leadership programs at a high school in Edmonton, Alberta.


Sam Demma (01:06):
He’s also a storyteller who honed his craft chirping teammates in hockey dressing rooms and having heart to heart conversations around the campfire and by sharing his passion for student activities in leadership class. He’s spoken in front of different crowds and, and different conferences before he has a bachelor in PE and education combined degree program from the university of Alberta, but he brings so much wisdom and ideas to the table during our conversation today. It’s a pretty long one, so I hope you enjoy it. There’s tons of ideas to take down, so don’t get overwhelmed. But have a note, have a sheet of paper and a pen and be sure to write some things down. I will see you on the other side, enjoy today’s conversation with Tom. Tom, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on this show. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit behind the reason why you got involved in education?


Tom Yonge (02:02):
All right. Well, first of all, Sam, it’s a pleasure to be here. Congratulations on your podcast and speaking. I’ve really enjoyed listening to a lot of your episodes and this is a, an honor to be here. But maybe before we start Sam, I wanna wish you a happy Wolf Wednesday. I don’t know when this is gonna be released Sam, but I’m you can tell viewers, can’t see at home, I’m wearing a, an, an awesomely tacky wolf shirt right now. and this is one of a roster of almost 52. Years ago. I I was in a, I had a young advisor, leadership teacher and I had this Vice Principal named Tom Davy and he’s from South Africa and he has an accent and he’s just a, just a beauty of guy, probably one of the best administrators I’ve ever worked with. But we differed in one thing and that was dress code.


Tom Yonge (02:48):
Tom was the kind of guy who was like you dress up in suit and tie every day and he was pushing to have like formal days, like not like touch of class formal days, but like teachers just, you know, pick up your game kind of thing. And I was all about casual Fridays. And so this got on the faculty council, like department head agenda, and it was on a Wednesday that we’re having this meeting. So I showed up with my tacky you know, gas station Wolf shirt, and he was at the gas. He’s just like, he’s like “Thomas Young! What are you wearing to a professional, you know, meeting!?” And I, I said, Hey, Tom, I’m in charge of, of leadership and student activities and just like pajama days now, every single day is maybe Wolf Wednesday and he just kinda shook his head and we agreed to disagree.


Tom Yonge (03:27):
And it’s kind of became a it’s it’s, I’m controlling the world by wearing these tacky Wolf shirts on Wednesdays, but it’s actually became a thing. And, and kids sometimes will, you know, give us a gifts after writing reference letters or at the end of this school year. And I’m collecting as many terrible wolf shirts as I possibly can believe it or not. It’s actually a lot of fun. And when, when I actually dive a little bit deeper, there’s actually some symbolism there that goes back to original question about why I got into teaching. And that actually is community and the metaphor of the wolf pack and the dignity and having to survive and face the harsh elements you know, is actually symbolic for, or, you know, my, my group of friends outside of school and, and also the mentality that I want my my class to have. So there’s a little bit of a little bit of realness underneath the trolling, but very also out there it’s like wearing a Hawaiian shirt, but it’s a woo shirt and this makes, you know, hump day on Wednesday that much better.


Sam Demma (04:17):
I love that, man. That’s so good. I, I can’t say the I’ve had a teacher that had something like that similar, so that’s awesome. Yeah. You know, you mentioned that this educator, Tom was one of the most phenomenal educators you ever had, but the one difference was your dress code. Yeah. What were the similarities, what were the things that he did that had such a huge impact on you when you look back at and reflect on how he taught now?


Tom Yonge (04:42):
Well, I’m so glad you’re asking this because I’d like him to hear this. And I think I I’ve mentioned it to him in person, but it’s, it’s nice be able to do this on the larger platform. I’ve never met someone who had a, a bigger heart for teaching. Wow. And would give more of himself to anyone in the school. And I said, he’s one of the best administrators. And I mean that because he help, not just myself and my leadership department, he’d be there to help. Absolutely everyone. He held everyone to a high standard, he would open doors. And if he felt that you were doing right by kids he had your back and, you know, he is kinda guy who actually had your back regardless which that’s another layer of, of why he’s such a phenomenal mentor to me. And so I was actually lucky enough to coach his son as a student teacher in my practicum.


Tom Yonge (05:26):
And I was I coached the, the, the Jasper place rebels team to a one and seven record league play. We lost all seven games, but we had the best team spirit you’ve ever seen. And it was after that, that you know, he approached me at the end of the season. He said it, you know, I, I’m actually a vice principal and I’ve been watching this whole season. And I just think that you’re, you found the right profession, you found the right vocation and maybe our paths will cross. And he kind of smirked as he left. And then years later I got a phone call saying, there’s this, this job you know, opening at, at strap Kona school, which he happened to be the vice principal of. And then we got to work together and we worked together until his retirement. And yeah, I just, you know, we’re so lucky to have people like that in our lives, who open doors and then support you and develop you and, and ask good questions. And that’s what Tom, Dave did. He’d always be asking good questions. And sometimes it was challenging coming up with good, but he sharpened sharpened us to be the, the best versions of ourselves. So I eternally grateful for Tom DVY.


Sam Demma (06:22):
What does holding you to a high standard mean? Like when you say he held you and I assume all the staff to a high standard, what does that look like? Was that his expectations or, or how did he display that to all of you?


Tom Yonge (06:38):
Well, for a couple reasons, one, he’s the type of person lead by example, you know he’s he would be there on evenings and weekends and whether it was my events or it was his work, he, you know, he’s not one of those people who’s asking you to work hard and then, you know, is leaving the parking lot at four o’clock got it. And so we knew that he was working as, as he could to build the, to do his part and his portfolio. But when I say also high standard it was through conversation and questions whether it was casually in the hallway, dipping into our classroom, or having us have a, in a conversation in his office, he would just keep on digging deeper and trying to ask us if we understood the meaning of the thing that we had planned. Hmm.


Tom Yonge (07:18):
And sometimes it would twist my brain up and the meetings would go on. They, they would take some time, but that was, he loved talking teaching and he loved talking life. And so that’s what I kind of mean by that is that when I say high standard, it wasn’t good enough just to go execute an event or teach a good lesson. He wanted you just to ring every drop of knowledge and takeaway from that experience. And he was gonna make sure that you did. Hmm. And that’s you know, and that’s what we tried to now kind of also emulate for our students.


Sam Demma (07:47):
I had a teacher Mike loud foot who changed my life and he taught me this idea that your self worth doesn’t come from your talent, skills, and abilities. But from two decisions, you make one to be of service to others. And two, every single day to give a hundred percent of your effort to whatever it is that you’re doing. And the reason he taught me those things was because he thought that even if the result didn’t go the way you expected it to be, or the event you planned flopped, if you knew you gave a hundred percent of your effort, you could look at the mirror at the end of your day. At the end of the night, a I’m still proud of myself for giving all my effort and energy into this project, despite what happened. And that sounds very similar to what, you know, your admin Tom kind of lives by. Did, did the discrepancy in dressing in shirts ever get resolved over the years?


Tom Yonge (08:35):
no, I think we kind of agreed to disagree. I think you know, he gets a chuckle at me now. He’s, he’s no longer working at the school and every once in a while, every once in a while, I’ll throw on a tie and it’s, and I’ll what I’m doing is I’m just gonna tipping my hat to Tom Davey. And I, I think of this is this story I just told you there, as goofy as it was, is something that I’ll, I’ll definitely relish as I get onto my more senior years of teaching.


Sam Demma (09:00):
I love that. That’s awesome. And so if we go, even back before you got involved and became a teacher I know you played hockey. I know you developed your speaking skills by chirping other players in the dressing rooms. , I’m curious to Melville at what moment in your young adulthood, your adolescents, did you say, I wanna be an educator. I wanna be a teacher. And how did that unfold for you?


Tom Yonge (09:22):
Alrighty. Well, I’ll try to get this as quick as I can to you because, you know, we don’t that much time I could go on, I could go on and, and get into a storytelling mode, but I I’ll keep it quick. I was actually origin gonna go, go into business. And I was in high school. I had all my, my choices chosen for, or, you know, I was gonna go grant McCuen. I was hoping to, you know, play for the college hockey team if I made it. And that was the plan. I was, I was going that route. I was literally the last two weeks of school of I was in a Fette 30 class and we had another school partner with us and we have a swimming pool attached to our, our school and our campus.


Tom Yonge (09:53):
And we were teaching these students with special needs, how to swim. And I was placed with a kid who had an extreme phobia of water. And I met him in the change room and he had two aide trying to pry his hands off the lockers while he was screaming. And he was just this little guy, but he was strong and he did not wanna make the walk even to the pool. And that’s where we started. It was just, just screams. And over the course, that two weeks, we just made incremental little changes of little growth. And I remember at one point I, I got him in the water and he was wearing two water wings per arm and leg, and two life jackets. Like he wasn’t even wet, like he was floating onto quotation and he was screaming at the top of his lungs, just yelling, screaming.


Tom Yonge (10:35):
At one point I got right over top of him. I looked in the eye and I said, Christian, are you okay? And he paused for a second mid scream. And he said, I’m okay, Tom. Ah, and he went back to screaming again, and I know by the end of the two weeks he was comfortable enough in the shower and that he could actually hold onto the, the rail outside of the pool and just and be wet. And in addition, he learned to catch a ball and his mom came on that last day and we, which I described this as what I call my first teaching moment. Mm. It was so powerful. Like I left that day and I, I went when I, I went home and I told my parents what had happened. And I dropped out of all my business program courses.


Tom Yonge (11:17):
I changed the direction of my career. Wow. And I enrolled in education. Well actually Fyed, I went to Fyed first at the university of Alberta. But I was thinking I wanted to do something now more with people and maybe less with business, but I was still kind of caught because I, up until this point, I also had an interest in being an outdoor guide. So it was my love of adventure, which I still love today. And I think teaching leadership is absolutely an adventure that I, I thought, you know, maybe my teaching won’t be in the typical classroom, it’ll be in the outdoor classroom and I’ll take people on canoe trips on the Nhan river or back country trips, you know, whether it’s skiing or, or hiking. Cause that was my other passion outside of sports. So I kind of went into the Fyed realm thinking, you know, I might be able to specialize in, in that, in that area.


Tom Yonge (12:02):
And while I was in university, I got coaching a junior high girls volleyball team, nice at the junior high, close to my house cause they needed someone. They needed someone. And I knew that I wanted happy to experience working with kids. So I said, sign me up. And I got to, to work with the Mustangs and junior high volleyball, as you probably know, Sam. I know you’ve played a lot of sports as well. You know, kids haven’t really like, they’re not as coordinated as they are, as they get older yet they haven’t grown into their bodies and volleyball’s a tough sports team sport. And typically it’s not skill that wins at the junior high level. It’s the, you have to get the basics down, you have to move as a unit and you have to be able to feel that trust on the team that they got your back.


Tom Yonge (12:43):
So you just can simply get balls in and not make mistakes. In fact, you can pretty much, you know, have a winning record by just playing a very basic game, but getting the ball back mm-hmm . And what I learned in my, my first few years, while I was doing my PHys ED degree was that we didn’t have the best team. We certainly didn’t have the tallest girls. We weren’t the most talented, but we were able to get that group moving as a unit on the court. And more importantly, I noticed that that group being hand moving as a unit off the court and into the hallways and after school, and many of them went on to still have life, life, life, own relationships. And that teaching moment number two was I loved coaching mm-hmm and there was that point. I was like, wait a second.


Tom Yonge (13:21):
Maybe clearly I’m not a good coach. You know, based on the Tom D and Sean Davies story. So I love coaching whether, regardless of the record, but I love the team aspect of it. And so then I know I was thinking maybe I don’t wanna always to be outside taking people, you know, on trips, maybe like I need to take my love of people and team and move that into the classroom. Hence the education degree, fast forward, a few years, an opportunity opened up to, to teach leadership. And I saw that as like, this is my gymnasium. This is like where I can actually build team every single day, myself and my colleague Jane Grant, who I think you might wanna talk up to at some point we’re the coaches and the, the students are the players. And each class that we have is a team and we have a season and our job is to peak until we get to that last day of, of leadership for that year. And that’s our Stanley cup, that’s our championship game where we get to look back and be like, whoa, look, how far became the season? And just like earn a hard goodbye. And like, because that’s time well spent. And so that’s what I’m, I’ve been addicted to, to building team. And I, that’s my nutshell story. That’s my arc.


Sam Demma (14:28):
Oh man. I love that. That’s so awesome. So many ideas came out of it. You know, you talked about that split moment decision that you out of the business courses and totally changed your direction. Jim, Jim Rowan business philosopher passed away. Now always used to say, you know, you can’t change your destination overnight, but you can definitely change the direction. And that’s exactly what you did in that moment where you dropped all your business courses and shifted into education, which I think is so cool. Secondly, you talked about at the junior high level, you know, it’s not about being the players that spike the balls. It’s just about the fundamentals and basics. Earlier today, I actually interviewed Alan Stein Jr. Who’s well known the basketball community. He actually coached Kobe Bryant, Kevin Durant Steph Curry. And he told me that the one thing he recognized watching these players play was that they were obsessed with the fundamentals. It was the fundamentals and obsession over becoming so flawless and perfect with the fundamentals that led to their awesome performance. I’m curious to know, from your perspective, what do you think are the fundamentals of making sure students feel heard, seen, valued and appreciated? Like what do as educators? What are the fundamentals to make sure a student feels like seen, heard and appreciated in a classroom?


Tom Yonge (15:49):
Well, I think you, you actually just nailed the, a bunch of, of the fundamentals through your question. They have to give each other the opportunity to feel seen and heard and connected. So one of the words that we tell the students on the very first day of school is that we will be relentless. We will not give up. We will hold you to account that you will come to this class to be the best version of yourself in hopes that that will be reflected in others. Mm. And these are, and therefore you got get used to, we call ’em just our norms, which is basically our fundamentals, but that is phones are, are not on like, we, you, we don’t see phones in our room. It’s, it’s a no phone zone. If you wanna. And if, and if that’s a problem, then you, you’re probably not gonna you know, have a great experience here.


Tom Yonge (16:35):
Yeah. We might get the odd break or something where where, you know, kids can, can be on their phone. So it’s not like it’s, it’s that militant, but the philosophy is the moment you walk in our door, like, and it’s like, like you’ve passed the door frame you’re on. And you have a responsibility to look around and make eye contact and say hi to people. We always have a do now on the, on the screen or the whiteboard and like, and this sounds so, like, I’m not giving anything wise here. Like, I don’t remember learning about, do nows in, in university, but we try to get really creative with them. And basically it’s not, it’s, it’s an activity that is not teacher led. You can like, the materials will be out if needed. It could be a big group, small group, a pair, an individual thing.


Tom Yonge (17:17):
And the goal is that it sets the tone of the class. It’s the appetizer before the main course, we, a few years ago, I noticed that our class was really good when Jane and I were running it, like they bought into like, we’ve got our redemption and I Clapp once clapped twice, they knew the routines. They nice. They knew how to say, like, we, we, we always say like, hi everybody. And then they all in Houston say hi, like Mr. Young Heman grant. And, and they have to match our intonation and our expression and our energy and actions. If we do it, they’re bought into all those routines. But we noticed the areas where, where they were kind of struggling with the, in between the break time, the after class, the, before class started, where they put their bags away. That’s where we would see that clicky behavior that, that, you know, divisiveness of, of that we don’t wanna see in our community or on our team.


Tom Yonge (18:02):
And for us, our reflection was, this is really where they are at. And this is where they’re at when they leave here to get into the whole away. So we are gonna make sure that every kid is, feels seen and heard because they’re gonna be encouraged due. So from the moment they walk in, and another thing that Jane and I do is every single time someone comes into our class, this is again, not wisdom, but it’s simple truth. We say, we leave by example and we’re at the door. And we say, hi, and no one leaves that. And no one leaves the classroom without saying, without passing us and getting a hello and eye contact. And I used to always give high fives. I was really sad when COVID happened, because I’d have all these fancy high fives of different kids are just like, you know, just, you know, classic.


Tom Yonge (18:42):
Right. But it was like my little way of saying, I may have not called on you today. We may have not had a conversation, but I’m looking you in the eye right now. And I see you here. Appreciate you being here. Thanks for taking my class. And I hope that you have a, a better day now that we’ve spent time together, moving forward, high five, boom, see you tomorrow. And so that was tough with COVID, but we kind of, I’ve kind of realized that it really never was about the skin contact. And by the way, I haven’t been sick yet this year. So maybe less terms is not the worst, but it, but what it is a about is the eye contact and that little connection. And so we’re encouraging kids to do it. We wanna lead by example, and I think we’ve seen really good results.


Tom Yonge (19:17):
So it’s been really, really neat just watching the, the class. I’ll give you one example quickly, Sam, if I could give as many as you want we, we have all sorts of of, of activities. It could be like, you know, sanitize your hands and keep a balloon in the air sanitizer. Don’t touch your face, sanitize your hands. It could be something as simple as that. And every time you get into a group of six and you split into three and you always bring people in, it could, that could be an example of a very simple do. Now here’s the simplest one, but it was really cute. And it was, and, and kind of challenging. It was put your bags down, sanitize your hands and say hi to the person who comes in next. And so they would read the door, but they they’d read.


Tom Yonge (19:53):
Then you’d have to go find that person and say hi. And then the two of them would say hi to the next person, which became three. And I, I was expecting just a whole bunch of one-on-one hellos and it turned into a gauntlet and it, and then now everyone everyone’s walking in and they’re getting, you know, 35 highs, they would say, hi, hi, high, high, going all the way down the line. And it wasn’t what we expected. But then kids wrote, you know, on one of their early, like, you know, week or two week into the quarter in, you know, surveys, they said, that was really cool. They’re like, that’s the moment that I knew that, that our class had got to a point where we felt trust and we felt connection. And so yeah, I think providing opportunities for our norms to become authentic experiences. That’s my, to answer


Sam Demma (20:32):
Love that. And you just mentioned something that I think is a foundational piece of building a, a team, whether it’s a team of students, a team of athletes, which is trust, and you’re someone who’s obsessed with teams, you’ve, you’ve played on sports teams, you build teams of students and you coach teams. What do you think are the, the foundation or the fundamentals of a team in terms of characteristics?


Tom Yonge (20:56):
Yeah, it’s a good question. I think number one is that people have to feel on the team. I don’t mean that make that, and that’s very different than making the roster. You can make the roster, but not feel a on the team. And, you know, especially at elite level sports, I mean, you can be on the roster, but you might be a bench player. Yeah. And you know, you, you, you might be able to wear the Jersey, but you know, people kind of know who the starting lineup is. So when I bring it, whether it’s a sport metaphor or it’s a class metaphor, it’s not enough just to be there. You’ve gotta feel that you’re, you’re connected. And, and so I think that’s really I into, on, on a few things. I mean, I think the, the, the teacher plays a role, but I think it’s also making sure that you have students who, whether they do it on their own or through a nudge take on responsibility to make sure that they know everyone else needs to feel, feel included.


Tom Yonge (21:43):
So we talked about trust and then other big thing that there I would say is inclusion and that, and also feeling valued. And so I usually try to find a couple kids who I know have that confidence. So, and I’ll pull ’em aside and I’ll be able to give them some positive affirmation, say, Hey, I just noticed what you did there today. You went over and talked to so, and so last year, I’m not sure I saw that many people talking to, so and so, and I just I’m seeing, so, and so’s eyes are lit right now, what you just did was awesome. That is what we’re looking for now, without saying anything. Do you think that you could go a good compliment to someone else next time you see them doing something like that for someone else? And it just becomes a chain reaction.


Tom Yonge (22:20):
And and I, I think that’s you know, know COVID has certainly changed a lot of things and a really changed a lot of things of how our school runs. We’re a event, heavy school, and we do massive campaigns and bikes and, and things. And we all that had to had to stop. And we had to kind of re refocus and bring it right back to what brought us to the dance mm-hmm . And that was the original thing was building team under getting to understand each other’s stories, you know, to feel the range of emotions. I mean, you know, from being at a, being a speaker yourself, whether it’s at a conference or whether it’s on a camping trip, like a retreat, you wanna laugh and you wanna have moments where you can get so real that you cry, but it’s not like sorrow cry. It’s like, I just feel good cause I’m alive and I’m connected to people cry. And and I think when you, when you do all that, then people, they feel part of that team.


Sam Demma (23:06):
That’s so awesome. There’s an awesome book. If you have an already read it, you should check it out. I think you would love it personally. It’s called catch them doing good or catch them when they’re doing good, something along those lines. And the basic idea is our instinct is to correct people, you know, when they do the wrong thing, correct. That behavior in sports it’s Hey, Jessica, make sure your knee is over the ball. When you kick the, a soccer ball or else it’s gonna go over the soccer net or, you know, make sure that your arms are fully inverted when you bump the volleyball or else it’s gonna go right. Or left. Yeah. The whole premise of this book though says, if you actually just encourage the correct behavior, no one feels like they did a bad job. And in fact, when you correct the, when you, when you heighten or put a spotlight on the correct behavior, everyone around sees you highlighting the correct behavior and subconsciously says, wow, that’s the right thing to do. I will adjust my behavior to fit that as well. And it’s such a powerful tool. So I would, I would assume that the way that you praised that one student’s behavior to compliment another student could even lead to everyone else, assuming, wow, this is the right thing to do. We should all compliment each other and would have a huge impact. So that’s awesome. I think you would, you should definitely check out that book if you haven’t heard it before, but I think you would really like it.


Tom Yonge (24:23):
I, and I’m gonna check it out. I appreciate the record. Yeah.


Sam Demma (24:26):
And I thought it was awesome. In your years teaching, and in your years doing leadership, you talked about a couple activities or exercises. What are some of the events you’ve run or things you’ve done that the students really enjoyed that you think someone else listening might also benefit from learning about?


Tom Yonge (24:42):
Woo. There’s so many things to so many directions to go. Yeah. okay. Well, I’ll try to just touch on, on a couple different ones. I I’d like, I love how you talked about your mentor and I know work that you’ve done. This is involved service. I know whether it’s, you know, you know, getting, you know, rallying people to clean up the community, you know, through garbage or what have you. I truly, you know, love service. I love being part of it. I love encouraging others too and doing it for the right reasons. I really love your, your podcast with Sarah Dre. Who’s a friend of mine in her project equal and and just how she gets people in regular core classes. Like you’re in a core class. You’re my, you’re my students you’re serving. Yeah. And I just, I just love that then, and know our motto at our school is as one who serves and I can common out in a lot of different ways.


Tom Yonge (25:27):
We’ve done a lot of really big fundraisers. We, we normally have this thing called the annual SCO initiative which is basically a full year of planning, but it, you know, it’s a campaign that’s usually launched in December and culminates in March for the greater population, but the planning’s happening around the clock with our, with the core of our grade 12 leadership, 35 class. And it ends in this massive 1200 person bikeathon that has just events happening at all times, but that’s something that’s, so that that’s really big. It’s really big inate and it’s not necessarily something that, you know, everybody can do, but you know, some people do walkathons or, you know, relay for life. And so there are ones that are out there, like the, the big ones. One of the things that that I, I would like to, to just suggest is a classic just retreat where it’s not necessarily going.


Tom Yonge (26:14):
I mean, by the way, if you can go to the horizon conference, if you can go to CSLC CSLC, if you can do, I’ll go to your provincial leadership. Yes, absolutely do that. That’s where I cut my teeth. That’s where I’ve learned. Thank you to all my mentors. Thank you all my community of friends who’ve ideas over the years, but I, I really think that one of the most simple things you can do when it comes back to building team is carving time with your class to have a little retreat. And now it’s really tough in, in COVID. And so we normally take our, our grade twelves on camping on the very first weekend of school. And they’re still looking forward to that. Cause we, we plant seeds since they’re in grade 10, about what a great time it’s gonna be. And so what this year we did, we did all the activities that we would do at the retreat, but in class time.


Tom Yonge (26:55):
And luckily it was in September and we could go outside and, and be out and, and, and do things safely. But we were able to experience a lot of the magic that had happens. But what the idea of the, of a, of a retreat is that it’s, you are retreating from your normal space and therefore the norms of how we interact in our environment and are, are, are changing. And that’s why we tend to have memories when we go camping. Cuz we talk a little bit differently when we’re sitting around the campfire, looking up at the stars, contemplating our lives. And we are now that we’re exchanging books. One of my favorite authors is Heath and Heath Heath and Heath brothers. And they have a book called the power of moments and they talk about creating experiences of, of, of a elation to elevate, sorry.


Tom Yonge (27:36):
And I think when we intentionally, as teachers create moments that make memories that also cements relationships to last longer. And so I think that a retreat could even be a two hour after school activity. That’s focused on team building done in the soccer field, outside of your school, but done early in the year. The, the value we get from investing our time early is pays dividends throughout the rest of the year. And I think any school can do that. And I think you can do it with a very little budget just by, and many people with with experience probably already doing that. And then that leads to a larger retreat. We, we call word, call Theone Lords, we call it JLo, get your, get your Lord on is the idea that, and that’s kind of like a day of it’s.


Tom Yonge (28:23):
It was originally model after a day of like Canadian student leadership conference or an Alberta student leadership conference. That’s kind of where it started, but it’s truly transformed to a completely student led thing. Now it’s a retreat for everybody in the leadership program and friends. And that’s why and, and so it’s usually, but a four or 500 person event which is big, but it’s not like bikeathon big and it allows them kids to practice like learning and leading and figuring out who’s gonna be on what committee and you know, everything from serving food to being on stage to running a wild scavenger hunt all over white avenue, which is kinda like your Yonge street. If you’re in Toronto, you’re in Toronto area, are you right Sam? Yeah. Yeah. And so, and it’s it’s, it’s been really cool. So I think there’s a range of, of a small, middle and big activities you could do. And I could probably give you more specific things that we do at any of them, this podcast or another one. But I, I think it’s really important to be intentional and take that time cuz it builds community in your class and your school.


Sam Demma (29:22):
And I agree that doing it early is, is best, you know, better. It’s better than doing it later. You know, you can look at the analogy of planting a seed in the garden, you plant it in the spring before the summer, you’re gonna have huge harvest. You know, if you wait to plant that seed in the middle of the summer, you might not get a tomato. Right? Like my, my N would come and hit me, my grandmother, if I tried to plant tomatoes in the middle of the summer, you know, . Yeah. and I think it’s the same with, with leadership activities. The sooner you can build that trust within a class, the more they’ll flourish together throughout the year. I’m curious in all the years you’ve been teaching, I would assume that there’s been moments where you’ve literally witnessed students, transform. A lot of teachers tell me that sometimes you don’t see the transformation.


Sam Demma (30:03):
Sometimes the seed gets planted and it gets watered for the four years. You have a student or the couple of months you have a student and then 20 years later they might come back and thank you. Or you may never hear from them, but your guidance and mentorship still had an impact. But have you witnessed any student transformations just to the, the appreciation and love of a caring educator and adult that has changed their students life? And the reason I’m asking is because I think at the core of education, when I ask, you know, why did most people get into this work? They say it’s because they have a passion for helping young people and coaching young people and mentoring young people. And some educators right now through COVID might be teaching virtually from home might be really struggling and sharing a, a story about a student who transformed might remind them why this works so important. Do any stories come to mind? And if it’s very personal, you can change a name. Yeah.


Tom Yonge (30:54):
Oh man. There’s so many stories that come to mind. Sam, that’s the beauty of the work that we do is that we get to be part of these stories. One of the things that I, I love about teaching junior high or high school kids is that a they’re they have a sense of humor. They’re creative. They don’t take life so seriously yet. But they’re also resilient as I’ve found through COVID and we it’s a, it’s a really, it’s a privilege to be part of their lives at such a formative time. And, and some of them, some of my, some of my best do have not had the greatest home lives. And maybe that’s part of the reason they wanna spend so much more time in a, more of a, I guess, a loving community or a room or space with other people.


Tom Yonge (31:32):
And others have come from F fantastic families. And it’s a little bit more like the rubiks cube that Phil Phil boy talks about where, you know, they’re already on a great path. And by being in our leadership program, we can just give ’em a few extra tools and they’re gonna, they’re gonna go out and just have a fantastic, you know, career in life, outside of, you know, the time that they spend with us. I guess I’ll tell you that in the, the quickest version, when I think of truly transformational and, and there’s, there’s, there’s so many, but my very UNT I can take back from my very first year at, at SCON and or my very first year having a grade 12, like this is my second year at school, first year having a grade 12 leadership class and this kid got put in there.


Tom Yonge (32:11):
And just cause I, I haven’t had a chance to talk to him in, in a couple years. I’ll, I’ll use a different name from now. His name is I’ll call him Braden. Braden was known for, or I think at the time he had the record for most skip classes of any student that ever came through or school. And had a few bad habits as well along the way, but on the very first day of school, we did this thing called hot dog tag, where I just wanna get them moving. You’ve probably seen it. You know, one person stands in the middle, two people on either side, few people that are it, few people running around and someone joins your trio. The other guy got a run. And then I turn that into a name game and they can say hi.


Tom Yonge (32:43):
And I, I normally do this outside now for anyone else who’s watching because of what happened. But I was doing it inside and the room I was teaching and also was like our trophy case room. And at one point he was going really hard and he hopped up and he actually sprinted across four tables and he did a triple flip off the end table, went flying through the air. He rotated three times, tried to land, but missed and some salted into the display case. And, and I just saw like, like, like a lawsuit coming right away. Cause he’s, he’s going cracked right into the glass. Everything shook, trophies fell. Luckily the glass didn’t break. If it did, it would, would’ve showered upon him and that other people were around and I just flipped. And I just went into like, like assertive mode and I was like, Braden, like, what the heck are you doing?


Tom Yonge (33:28):
Like just kind of, and I just like, and he looked at me after you just having so much fun in the class. And he flipped me the bird. And he just flipped me the bur. And I think he, he might had a couple choice and he told me where to go and Audi and Audi walked and I was like, Ugh, like that’s the worst? Start to a team building experience, worst start to a school year. Like what could I possibly do? And I, I thought, well, he’s gone. They gave, they, you know, they, they tried, they tried, they put him in my class. They thought maybe this would be a good fit. Didn’t work. He’s gone comes by after school. And he’s standing in the doorway. He doesn’t wanna say too much. And I’m like, do you wanna talk? And he was just, he was really non-verbal and, and I just said like, listen, I lost my temper there.


Tom Yonge (34:07):
When I, when I got upset with you, I thought you were gonna like hurt yourself or hurt somebody else. But tell me, where did you learn to do that flip? And he is like, and you wouldn’t say too much. He’s like, I’m a trampoline and Tumblr, like I got, this is what I do. Like, like I, this is the one, the one thing that’s going, that’s going well is, is, is I, I, I have this skillset. And I was like, I would love to see that skillset that, you know, perform sometime on stage, like at a pep rally or, or something. Cuz that’s pretty cool if you wanna come back tomorrow. This incident is behind me as far as I’m concerned. But I’ll let you think about it. And he left that. He came back the next day and he kept coming back.


Tom Yonge (34:41):
And this is our first time planning, one of our big, you know, S Scona initiatives trying to, you know, raise money. And we had no clue what we were doing. We were, we are nickling and di our way to try to raise, you know, $15,000, we were kind of classic school, build a school somewhere else kind of thing. And we never had done a live launch in front the whole school before, but you know, we took a moment of, of, of a pep rally to take 15 minutes to talk about this. And we weekly leading up to it. Everyone’s getting super stressed out. We weren’t sure how to tell the story. We weren’t trying to make it relatable kids. Like, you know, 1500 kids getting outta class mostly are just happy to be outta class. They’re not ready to listen. And you know, especially when it’s a pep rally, all is fun stuff.


Tom Yonge (35:19):
And now we want them to get serious and talk about kids who are living in paw somewhere else who want a chance to read. And we called it to spread the word campaign. And while all the kids were getting at each other, like three days out, he eventually at one point he was just like, stop. He’s like stop. And we’re just like what? Because mostly, mostly just sitting there and he is like, listen. And he told us about where he grew up. And he told us about what had had what, some of the, the issues in his family and the community that it’s a rough, rough place, different city. He won’t get into it just for privacy’s sake. And he is like the kids that we’re trying to help, you know, a lot of them had had worse off than I did. He’s like, he, like, we gotta stop.


Tom Yonge (35:57):
Like we’re losing, we’re losing, we’re losing sight of, of what this is all about. Like, why are we here? Like, what’s our purpose? And he’s just like, and when he told his story and it was really personal, like everyone just was like, Teeter’s rolling down to the, down, down the face. And he came back like a few days later and he had a poem. And he’s like, I think I’d like to read this on stage. And, and so we got up and, you know, we got to this moment and all of a sudden the guy pretty much has never been to a pep rally cause he skipped every single one prior to this is the guy who has the light shining on him. And, and yeah, I, I don’t, I almost, I almost have bit memorized still, but I I don’t know if I, if I can do it quite, quite, quite right.


Tom Yonge (36:43):
But bottom line is this. I can, I can save, save that cause I don’t wanna, I don’t wanna butcher his words, but I still still remember it. So crystal clear, but he went off and he, and he basically did his spoken word poetry and the whole Jim just went silent and they were focused on every word he said, and that it was called to spread the word campaign. And we’d asked every kid in the school prior to write a powerful word on their hand before they got there and they didn’t know why. And when he was done, they, they, you know, he asked everyone just to kind of raise their hands. And we took the spotlights that were on the, on the stage. And we turned them out just to illuminate the audience and of a sudden 1500 hands in the raise high with words like, like hope and dreams and, and care and love.


Tom Yonge (37:25):
And like, he’s got this massive standing ovation and it’s like, right then I knew like we had it and that we were gonna be able to be successful in that first campaign. And that first campaign was called, you know, you know, the campaign, it became the annual SCON initiative and we’ve been doing this, this ever since. And he went on to do really good things. And I believe at one point, I don’t know if it was like fully working with, with CTA slay. But he was, he took his, his skills elsewhere, but my first thought he’d be on stage doing flips instead, he, he, he opened up his heart. And that that’s a story that will probably always dig with me.


Sam Demma (38:02):
Wow, man, I have goosebumps under my sweater. that was such a good story. I, I know, I know of another speaker named Josh and he always says that, you know, a kid’s most brilliant trait sometimes first makes its appearance through an annoyance. Right? Yeah. And I think this is perfect example of that, of that principle and story and how, you know, the love of a caring adult, the appreciation of a caring adult can turn that annoyance into some magnificent thing. And not that it was directly a result of just yourself, but it’s true. Educators change lives, you know? And that’s a phenomenal, that’s a phenomenal story. I still have goosebumps.


Tom Yonge (38:44):
No, I mean, and that’s the thing. It really, I, I think it rarely is about, about the educator. I think our job is to provide the opportunities. Yep. And oftentimes we’re just as, as surprised as, as anyone else would with what happens. Like I, I can take out to zero credit for that because I was the blind leading the blind that year. And actually for my many first years of teaching leadership, I really had no clue. In fact, a lot of my best activities that I’ve kept from the early years literally came out of kids saying things like Mr. Young, no offense, but we can tell that you’re not actually really ready for the next couple months. So could we do this? And they come up with an idea and I, yeah, that sounds like a good idea. And, and then, so they, weren’t a lot of the best stuff that I have, like didn’t come from me, but then I learned what did work.


Tom Yonge (39:21):
And you know, we follow the experiential learning model, which is not just learning from doing, but learning from reflection upon doing. And that’s, that’s really what we drive the kids. So we never do an event or even an Energizer or an activity without talking about the purpose or the metaphor or the, that can come out of it. I think that is like the, the real key is, is to, to extract meaning. And that goes back to Tom D if you wanna go full circle is you’ve, you’ve gotta reflect to be able to to move forward. And so the students were, were the ones that have often shown me the road and I’ve been happy to, to drive along on the bus with them.


Sam Demma (39:54):
Last final reflection question. you talked about your first few years of education. If you could go back in time and speak to your younger self, what your, in your first, second year of teaching, what advice would you give knowing what you know now?


Tom Yonge (40:10):
Ooh, that’s a good question. Wow. Well, first of all, I’d probably say you know, embrace every moment, cause it goes quick. Mm-Hmm , you know, it it’s, it’s, it’s a wild ride. I think one of the, the, maybe, I dunno if it was a mistake or things that almost drove me to a point of burnout early on is I tried to do too much myself. I tried to carry the load and I always pride myself from being a guy doesn’t need much sleep and have a boundless energy. I mean, my mom grew up on a farm and you, you went to bed late and you woke up early to, you know, take care of the cattle or, you know, the goats or what have you. And I have that energy in me and I’m, I’m grateful to have it, but at, at some points in my career, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve gotten pretty close to line I’ve, I’ve drawn myself pretty thin.


Tom Yonge (40:53):
And I think a few of your different people you’ve had, you know, I think Mark England and Brent Dixon have talked about the importance of, of staff collegiality and making sure you take time to get to talk to people. And so I’ll take a slightly different take though. I agreed with everything they said, I would say you’ve got to find an ally. My mentor one of my mentors and, and still good friends who I met through student, this Canadian Sioux leadership conference. But I also, so I worked with her briefly when I was a young young teacher, her name’s Stacy, maybe. And she was just a giant in, in leadership world when I was coming in. And I remember her saying that, trying to be like an advisor by yourself show that being an advisor, student advisor or leadership teacher in a care is challenging and doing it by yourself is almost impossible.


Tom Yonge (41:39):
Mm. And, but if you have at least one other person who you can brainstorm with, you can say, you can go in the back office and say, did you just see what I saw? And either it’s a celebration or it’s event, but it’s someone you trust and you can, you know, you know, you can create with. And so in my, my fir I’ve been at school now for 12 years. And my, my first, you know, five or five years, I was getting pretty tired and I was just, you know, it was hard. But I think this is the perfect way to end this Sam, when I went to my very first Canadian student leadership conference in, in Waterloo, not Waterloo Niagara and I was just a young was my first year at the school, after all the bill, all these billets, you know, come and pick up the kids and people who are listening, we’re talking about like 800, maybe sometimes like a thousand kids all get billed.


Tom Yonge (42:22):
After going to this conference, you know, you find a plane, you go to this amazing opening ceremonies, the energy so high, and then you get these kids get billed. And then the advisors get to go to their hotel and, and get to network and meet one another and shared their ideas. And I was left. Like my kids had left and I’m talking to Stacy, cuz we used to work together. We’re so surprised to see each other at this conference. And she has one delegate and her name’s Jane Grant and this poor kid is in, in, in grade 11 or 12. And she’s the only one who didn’t have a bill come pick her up. Mm-Hmm . And so I’m trying to get on her level and just, you know, like have fun. So I remember like making like, like these dumb seal sounds like I won’t make it now.


Tom Yonge (42:58):
Cause it’ll break you the eater drums of your audience. And we were singing the beach boys and we were just trying to like play name that tune and just try to keep her mind off the fact that she didn’t have anyone come pick her up while you know, the people ran to con sort, you know, try troubleshoot. Well long the story short, I got to know her through state AC over the course of the week. And she said she wanted to be a teacher. And at the time an elementary teacher, well, when we came back, I introduced her to one of my former students and, and now one of my best friends, Michael Schlegel melt, and I said, you guys need to meet like, you’re really good Sam trying to get people to connect. And this is one of those moments where I was like, Jane, you’re awesome, Mike, you are awesome.


Tom Yonge (43:34):
And Michael’s is the guy who would come back and staff, all my retreats and camping trips and stuff cause most other teachers didn’t want to. And so I always rely heavily on my alumni and Mike was just a year older or too older than, than her. And he was starting this thing called the Alberta mentorship program, which is basically a bunch of young kids who would come out and they, they helped school. They helped at other schools and they would offer their services to be that bridge between student and adult and do mentorship or just simply be the backbone of, you know, big retreat like, you know, bikeathon and different things and say we’ll stay up all night. We’re the ones who like doing that. We’ll do the Brun work. We’ll take the garbage and we’ll meet with your kids and we’ll hold sessions.


Tom Yonge (44:08):
And so Mike and Jane actually started this, this thing and it became like a nonprofit and many of my alumni who left my class, went through this. And so Jane and I got to stay in touch through her entire, you know, university. And so she already was working with my students as like a university student. And then when she finally graduated, we said, Hey, like, would you come work with work with SCON and run the leadership program with me? And, you know, at that point, just like I before at one point was like, I don’t know, do I wanna be an outdoor guide? Do I want to, you know, be a coach, she chose to leave her elementary training and become the leadership teacher with me. And that is the TSM turning point. That is when things really took off. And we had, I said, we’d reach small events where we’d only use, kind of get like, you know, you know, 50 kids to a hundred kids max to an school event in the early years, once she came, things took off.


Tom Yonge (44:55):
And, you know, the last few years when we ran our bikeathon, as I said, it’s like 1200 people plus alumni plus volunteer plus staff. Like it’s like the whole school like involved. And she’s you know, at one point I probably was her mentor and now I kind of feel that she’s mine and we’ve kind of, you know, switch spots. She’s incredibly hardworking, organized, creative. And I just I think having an ally, so back back to the back, then find your ally guys and gals, everybody like find your ally. And and, and for me, I was fortunate enough to, and I had to work though. And I had to like really like lean on the administration. And some of us living in small town, this, this, this advice doesn’t help you too much. So your ally might look different and maybe that’s someone at home, it’s someone in the community.


Tom Yonge (45:37):
Maybe it’s not a teacher like my ally before that was Mike who was just alumni became who became my friend. And he was the one who I, I, I knew I could take kids on trips cause they’d always come to me. These big ideas. I couldn’t ask my staff to do that, but I couldn ask Mike. So Mike was my ally until he went and got his, you know, multiple degrees and, you know, became a doctor and moved to Ottawa. But and then by by the time he could not give the time that he, he did Jane could. Mm. And at some point I’m sure her she’ll find other allies, I’ll find other allies, but iron sharpens iron. And I think all of like I’ve benefit, she’s benefiting and most important’s students have be benefited from our co-teaching.


Sam Demma (46:15):
There’s an awesome book, think and grow rich. And there’s a chapter on the mastermind and Napoleon Hill, the author basically says when two minds, you know, two humans talk to each other and brainstorm ideas, a third intangible mind is created because of the two coming together and that’s what you’re describing. It’s like your creativity will never out match two people talking together and brainstorming together. We all have blind spots and other people help us identify them and amplify each other’s creativity, which I think is so cool. Ending on that note. If someone wants to chat with you and bring two minds together who listened to this interview and thinks it was a phenomenal conversation, what would be the best way for them to reach out to you and, and have that conversation?


Tom Yonge (46:57):
Well, I’ll say this in, in just to be funny, but probably email Jane.brand. ATSB, DOTC be more organized than I am. And I hope you, Jane, I hope you listen to this sometimes because it’s true and you know it, and you’ll get a kick of this when you see me next. No, but my, my emails, tom.yonge@epsb.ca and as long as you don’t mind getting emails late at night, I tend to get the kids to, I got a four and six year old. I get the kids to bed and that’s when I get back on and do my schoolwork. So I usually reply late and if that’s okay then I’m always happy to connect. And as I said, Sam, it’s been such a pleasure listening to the different educators from all over the place that you brought on this podcast. I really miss the community of CSLC teachers. And so much of, of my growth and everything that I’ve done is a direct result of better mentorship. And so cycle continues.


Sam Demma (47:52):
I love it. And I heard the rumor that if you’re near the school on a night of a full moon, you might hear a Ooh


Tom Yonge (47:59):
Right. I’m no, no lone Wolf. I’m looking for the pack. So just join in.


Sam Demma (48:05):
I love it, Tom. Thanks so much for coming on.


Tom Yonge (48:06):
I really appreciate it. My pleasure, Sam, thanks so much. Take care.


Sam Demma (48:10):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise, I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tom Yonge

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Jennifer Lemieux – Teacher, Guidance Counselor and Student Leadership Advisor

Jennifer Lemieux - Teacher, Guidance Counselor and Student Leadership Advisor
About Jennifer Lemieux

Jenn Lemieux (@misslemieux) feels blessed to serve the staff and students at St. Peter’s Catholic Secondary School in Barrie, Ontario (SMCDSB). She has been a teacher, guidance counselor, and a student leadership advisor. As an educator for the past 22 years she continues to be inspired by the students and staff she works with.  

Her favourite quote is by John Quincy Adams, “If your actions inspire others to dream more, learn more, do more, and become more, you are a leader.”  The actions of educators have a large impact on the lives of students, families, colleagues, and the community.  As educators, we are gifted with many opportunities to be able to inspire others to dream, learn, and become more. It is one of the most amazing jobs in the world!

Connect with Jennifer: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Peter’s Catholic Secondary School

Ontario Student Leadership Conference (OSLC)

Youth Leadership Camps Canada (YLCC)

Canadian Student Leadership Association (CSLA)

Canadian Student Leadership Conference (CSLC)

Thinkertoys: A Handbook of Creative-Thinking Techniques

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Jennifer Lemieux . I met her a couple years ago, presenting at a conference in Ontario, known as the Ontario student leadership conference. She was one of the teachers that were in my breakout room and we stayed connected and I thought it’d be really awesome to have her on the show.


Sam Demma (01:00):
She has such a diverse experience in teaching. She’s a teacher, a guidance counselor, and a student leadership advisor, and also an Ontario director of the Canadian student leadership association. Her teaching roles occur at St. Peter’s Catholic secondary. She lives out in Barrie and she’s a part of the Simcoe Muskoka Catholic District School Board. I have an awesome conversation with Jennifer on today’s episode about so many different topics and her philosophies about teaching and education. And I hope you truly get a lot out of this interview and reach out to her towards the end when I, when I give you her email address. So without further ado, enjoy this interview with Jen and I will see you on the other side. Jenn, thank you so much for coming on the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing the reason behind why you got on why you got into education?


Jennifer Lemieux (01:56):
Well, thanks for having me. It’s an honour to be here. You’re doing amazing things, so that’s pretty awesome. I just got noticed that my internet actually is unstable so that’s how this goes. Why I got into education? Well, when I was young, my mom was a teacher, so that’s sort of where some of it, I guess would’ve begun. She taught elementary school. So we’ve had our share of being in classrooms; helping mom out. In high school of my history teacher, Mr. Adia, he was one of my inspirations in becoming a teacher. He was just an amazing individual who could inspire us to do awesome things with history and I actually majored in history and then ended up, it was either law school or education. Those were my two sort of goals. And after three years of school I was liked, I really wanted more and education was calling my name and so that’s where I begun. And I’ve been at the same school, this is going on 22 years. I haven’t had to leave and so it’s been a pretty awesome experience.


Sam Demma (03:06):
That’s awesome. And at what point in your own career journey, did you know that you were gonna be a teacher? Like, was there like people who pushed you in this direction? Did you know it since you were a little kid or how, how did you make the decision that it was gonna be education?


Jennifer Lemieux (03:25):
I don’t think, I mean, I just loved always. I mean, coaching when I was young doing thing with youth and, you know, it was just part of a natural habit to, to want, to help people. And though I think, you know, having the inspiration of, of course my mom and Mr. OIA was, was lovely to have and just wanting to be able to make a difference in the lives of people. So that was that I think was my go to.


Sam Demma (03:53):
I love that. And if you could pinpoint what the things were that Mr. O did that had a huge insignificant impact on you? Like, what would you say was it that he tried to get to know his students and build relationships? Or what was the main thing he did that made you feel? So, you know, stern, a scene heard and appreciated and inspired you so much so that you wanted to get into education yourself.


Jennifer Lemieux (04:20):
He was definitely human first teacher second. Right. So, so you could see those connections. He tried to make, I’m also from a fairly small town in Northwestern, Ontario, and he was also my driving instructor. nice. And he taught me how to drive . So he just, you know, sometimes people, he didn’t coach me he did coach golf where we were from. But he was just, just authentic and human and he cared and he challenged our thinking. And so it just was a great relationship we had.


Sam Demma (04:54):
Hmm. That’s amazing. And funny enough. He was also your, your driver’s teacher, you were saying, it sounds like he was a teacher in all aspects of life.


Jennifer Lemieux (05:03):
You betcha.


Sam Demma (05:04):
That’s awesome. Very cool. And so then you grew up do you still stay in touch with him today? Do you still talk to him?


Jennifer Lemieux (05:13):
I’ve seen him because I still have family in the small town we were from actually just saw him. Last time I was home in the grocery store and just had a little convers and with him, you know, in the aisles of the grocery store, I mean, that’s not a, a constant communication, but he knows he was pivotal.


Sam Demma (05:30):
Yeah, no, that’s cool. I was gonna say sometimes teachers see the impact that they, that they’ve created. Sometimes they, they don’t see it. Sometimes it takes 25 years for a student to turn around and, and let the teacher know. And I’m sure you of that, I’m sure you’ve, you know, had stories of transformation and maybe some that are, you know, 10, 15 years out of school and then they come back and they, they speak to you and tell you about the impact you had. I’m curious though out of all the students that you’ve seen transform due to education, maybe not directly in your class, maybe in your class or on your sporting teams do you have any stories that really stick out that were really inspiring? And the reason I ask is because another educator might be listening, being a little burnt out for getting why they got into education in the first place. And I think at the heart of most educators it’s students, right. They really care about young people and the youth. And so do you have any of those stories of transformation that you’ve seen that really inspired you? And if it’s a, if it’s a very personal story or serious story, you can, you know, give the student a fake name. just to keep it private.


Jennifer Lemieux (06:35):
Well, I mean, there’s, there’s many in instances. I mean, I wear two hats right now. I still teach classes, but I’m also a guidance counselor. Nice. so you have, you have two sort of different things to look at. I mean, as a teacher, you work with your students and, and I just love to see them gain their confidence and grow. I mean, I taught history. Then I went in and taught psychology G and so I say, I teach the life courses. My husband says I don’t teach the real courses of math and science. So I like to think leadership is life and psychology is life. Yeah. And just watching some of the students, especially in the leadership classes that they come in and they’re not really there. Some are make it, and they don’t know why they’re there and just a watch their confidence grow throughout the time you have with them.


Jennifer Lemieux (07:22):
I mean, we’re in the business of human connections. Yeah. I struggle sometimes to really think about, you know, I’m a, a task person and I like to do my tasks. And, and so I really have to consciously think sometimes people first tasks later same with, I think all teachers, we need to think students first curriculum later, mm-hmm . And I know a lot of my colleagues probably agree with that as well. But it’s really hard to do that sometimes. And so, I mean, I’ve watched students who have passions in their high school career go in, I mean, I’ve got one student working at Google in Cal now. Wow. So he’s working, he’s working there in high school. He was that kid who created websites, created videos for the school. Nice. So, you know, you have these kids who have their passions and to foster them and provide those opportunities and let them grow.


Jennifer Lemieux (08:14):
Those are some big transformations you see in kids. And then you also have the kids that, you know, have no family support and no, you know, they rely on the caring adults in the school to be their family to speak and to help push them to grow. Right. And you have those kids too, that have a lack of confidence or are the introverts who join your classes and you give them opportunity to try to shine, even though they don’t wanna do those presentations, you know, you provide some safe parameters and boom, off they go. So, you know, to say that there’s one specific, there’s a lot in the very many categories, if that makes sense. Yeah. That we can, you know, providing, I like to think we provide opportunities for students to grow. Yeah. In the very different capacities that we have. Right. And I, you know, kids come back and say, thank you so much, like you did this. And I’m like, all I did was provide the opportunity. You took it. Yeah. And you lost them. Right. So that’s sort of where I like to think we have the huge responsibility and opportunity for, to provide opportunities for our students to, to flourish and blossom.


Sam Demma (09:28):
What does and support them. Yeah. No, I agree. What, what does providing the opportunities look like? Is it a, to cap on the shoulder? Is it an encouraging, you know, word? Like what does that actually look like from a teacher’s perspective?


Jennifer Lemieux (09:42):
Well, it varies from giving them opportunities to attend conferences, right. To actually plan and execute and deliver a full event from start to finish, to provide them your full trust that you believe in them that they’re going to be able to do. Right. I mean, I had one student, we have a massive event in our school called clash of the colors and it’s a big, loud, crazy event. That’s four extroverts. And this one student had entered my grade 11 class and was like, but I’ve her bin. And I’m like, that’s okay. Right. Mm-hmm so how do we make you go? And so she was like, well, I don’t know, like maybe a board game room. And so we were like, okay, let’s create a board game room. And so we created this board game room and, you know, we ended up having kids that we never had and she then felt included.


Jennifer Lemieux (10:37):
Right. So she, she spoke up, had the courage to say, yeah, well, you know, I’m in this class and here we’re planning this thing I’ve never attended. Right. And I also had the flip where I had a brand new student come in last year or two years ago cuz COVID he came in and has no idea what our school culture is about and he’s lumped into a leadership class. Right. And he’s just like, yeah. Okay. And he ends up leading an entire assembly when he really knew nothing that was going on. Wow. You know, and I’ve had an ESL kid come in who couldn’t speak English. So basically they were put in my class for socialization and just to watch the, the student engagement and the support and students helping each other. I mean, those are the opportunities we get to provide for them to build confidence.


Sam Demma (11:28):
If that makes sense. Yeah. No, a hundred percent. You’re you are the person that provides the opportunity for growth, whether it’s the planning of an event, whether it creating inclusive opportunities where everyone, whether introvert or extrovert feels included and can use their specific gifts to make a difference in the school. That makes a lot of sense. And I, I appreciate hearing a little bit more about your philosophies. I, if we wanna call them that, you know, I think that everyone builds their own personal philosophies based off their experiences. And it sounds like one of the philosophies you have around education is that, you know, humans first curriculum, second, like you were saying, and I’m curious to know, what other philosophies do you have around education? Or what other things do you believe, you know, over the last 22 years of, of teaching that you think might be beneficial to reflect on personally, but also to impart upon another educator listening right now?


Jennifer Lemieux (12:23):
Well, one of my biggest flus, I have a few that are speakers. So Mark Sharon Brock, he used a quote that I order forget to leave things better than you found them. Mm. Right. So he uses it cuz that’s apparently how we use leave camp sites is better than how you found them. Nice. Right. So I heard him say that in a speech one time and I was so excited to actually see him at an Ontario student leadership. One like conference one year I was as like a kid, like meeting their idol anyway, nice. I use that now even with, with the kids at school and and just as a philosophy in general, to always try to get them to leave our school better than they fit as well as people. Right. So to just try to leave the people and places better than you found them. And that is something we, I do try to impart when I meet people is to try to do that. Right. So that’s, I mean, not a huge philosophy per se, but it, it was a line from him that I won’t ever forget that has stuck with me and is now in my day to day living.


Sam Demma (13:38):
Yeah. I love that. I it’s so funny. You mentioned Mark Sharon Brock a few months ago. I just picked up my phone and called him and his wife. Wow. Yeah. His wife answered the phone and she’s like, hi, and I can’t her name now, but it was on his website on the contact page. She was holding up a Phish on the contact page and we had a beautiful conversation. And I, I said, you know, you know, would it be crazy to think that mark might talk to a young guy who’s 21 years old who just has some questions? And she’s like, let me check. And she put me on hold and she called his office and he answered the phone and, and gave me his time. He gave me 30 minutes of his time, answered a bunch of questions. And I just remember thinking to myself like, wow, this is someone who owes me, nothing who doesn’t know who I am, who just took 30 minutes out of their very busy day to just share some wisdom. And I, I, I sent them a handwritten thank you note for, for, for giving me some time. But I think that that relates also to education that when we give students time to, to make them feel seen, heard, and appreciated when we go out of our way to show them that we care. Despite the fact that we all have our own busy lives, it, it makes a huge difference and a huge impact. I’m curious though, it’s


Jennifer Lemieux (14:55):
A nice bike story right there.


Sam Demma (14:57):
So for everyone who doesn’t know what that is, you wanna summarize it?


Jennifer Lemieux (15:03):
Oh, mark. always talks about nice bike. How he was at a big bike, I guess, convention, I guess. Yeah. And all you have to do is, you know, come up to big Burley guys who drive bikes and say nice bike and they kind of don’t seem so intimidating anymore. Yeah. it was a nice bike story.


Sam Demma (15:23):
That’s awesome. I like it. it’s so true. Right? A little, a little compliment, a little, a little appreciation, I think goes a, a really long way for an educator who’s listening right now and might be in their first year of teaching. right. During this crazy time, knowing what you know about education and about teaching and the wisdom you’ve gained over the past 22 years, like, what would you tell, like, imagine it was your yourself. Imagine if you just started teaching now, but you knew everything, you know, what would you tell your younger self as some advice?


Jennifer Lemieux (16:01):
Well, it’s interesting. Cause I remember being in teachers college and they like to tell you, you know, to set that stage when you enter that room and don’t smile until Christmas and all of those sort of things. And I would yes. Agree that there needs to be structure and parameter in a classroom and boundaries. But I also think it’s okay to be you and be your authentic self. I remember teaching an ancient history course and I never studied ancient history. I mean, I had, you know, American history, Canadian history and they plunked me into one of those and I was struggling in this grade 11 course knowing nothing. And I had to not lie to them. Right. Like it was like, okay, we’re gonna learn this together. We’re going to be okay. You know, because they’re going to see through you. So if you, you can be your authentic self.


Jennifer Lemieux (16:57):
I think sometimes we’re scared to let students see we’re human. And one of the first things I always try to remind them on the first day of school is yes, I’m your teacher, but I’m a human being. Right. And I have two rules in my classroom about respect and honesty and just, just be you because we just need to be us and be our authentic selves as scary as that is. Right. Yes. Again, we have boundaries. Like we don’t talk about what we do outside of school and you know, our lives to an extent, but for your, your personality and what you’re comfortable with. I think it’s fair to, to share some of those things with students and be okay doing that. It’s not about don’t smile until Christmas, at least in my world now. Right. When it, you know, when I first started, I think I was a bit scared and to lean on lean on your peers, like lean on people that have been there a while that are willing to help. Because it’s a pretty, pretty powerful thing. If, if you can be mentored, had huge mentorship in my career. I look at like St. Saunders, Phil Boyt one of my old athletic director partners I mean, they’ve all mentored me, right? Dave troupe was a huge mentor of mine, Dave Conlan. So they’re, they’ve all gotten me to be a better person and a better educator. And you want to be able to rely on those things and not be afraid to be you.


Sam Demma (18:30):
Hmm. That’s awesome advice. That’s such, such great advice. You mentioned that you created two rules in your classroom. Can you share exactly what they are and when you, when did you create those? Was that something that you started right when you first started teaching or did that, was that created some years in?


Jennifer Lemieux (18:46):
Oh, when I first started teaching, I of course had every rule they tell you to do. Right? Yeah. And like, and sign this contract. And then later as I developed, it was, I mean, honesty that was rule number one, be honest to yourself, me and everybody else. And if you know, your homework’s not done because you were too tired to do it, or you just didn’t get it done. Or it was a bad night. Don’t lie to me. I don’t wanna be lied to. Mm. Just tell me life is happening or something’s going on, you know, don’t have your parents write me a note. That’s not telling the truth, you know, try to just be, be real. And of course, to me, respect encompasses everything being prepared as a student. So again, I’ve remind them to respect themselves, to respect others. And of course it’s a mutual respect between all of us and, and we’ll get along.


Jennifer Lemieux (19:40):
Right. And sometimes you have to have those tough conversations with kids. I remember where a uniform school and I remember one student didn’t really love wearing her uniform. And so we butted heads a lot. Mm. Right. Because I was following the rules and that was not, that happens sometimes. And so often when that happens, students think you’re targeting them or you’re after them. And I always try to remind them, it’s the behavior. I’m not impressed with. It’s not their personality. It’s not them. Right. It’s their behavior. That’s not driving with me. And so I ended up having a tough conversation with that kid and we ended up figuring out a way to, to exist and coexist and be okay. Right. Because it’s not the behavior. It’s, I mean, it’s not the person, it’s always the behavior. I usually, you know, don’t, don’t like, so if you can separate that with students too, I find that’s helpful.


Sam Demma (20:33):
Right now there’s a ton of challenges. But in the spirit of leadership, we always try and focus on the opportunities. And I’m curious to know, from your opinion and perspective, what do you think some of the biggest opportunities are right now in education?


Jennifer Lemieux (20:51):
Well, in trying to stay positive, I think some of the biggest opportunities we have right now is challenging our creativity. We are being forced to, to change the, the things that we know to be right. So our course is how we deliver them. When I speak to many staff, they’re, they’re a bit challenged and discouraged that they’re having to destroy their big, awesome courses because they just can’t do the same in person activities and things just aren’t the same. And so we have an opportunity as educators to use different tools jam boards Google interactive, Google slides with para deck. So we’re using a lot more technology and having to force ourselves to be a bit more creative than we’ve ever been when it comes to teaching the things we love to teach. And of course, we’re, you know, challenged to keep our, our person surveillance up and just to keep plugging away. But I think we have to look at, you know, while we’re facing all of these challenges, now we are still growing. And we have the opportunity to become better differently. Yeah. If that makes sense?


Sam Demma (22:04):
It does. It makes a lot of sense. And I love that. And the piece about creativity D is so true. I actually, right now I’m reading a book, it’s a handbook that helps you become more creative. It’s called thinker toys. And the whole book is about different strategies and techniques to bring creativity out of you. The author believes that creativity isn’t something that you, you are born with, but it’s something you can create within yourself. So it’s an interesting book and I think it’s so true. Everything’s changing. The world is changing, which is bringing out so many different ideas and so many different innovations and I think education is at the forefront of a lot of it. Awesome. This has been a phenomenal conversation. If someone wants to read out to you, ask you a question, have a phone call, bounce, some ideas around what would be the best way for somebody to get in touch with you?


Jennifer Lemieux (22:59):
Well, I’m not really active on Twitter, but I have a Twitter @misslemieux but my school email is probably the most frequently thing I access. So that’s jlemieux@smcdsb.on.ca, it’s for the SIM Muskoka Catholic district school board. That’s what the SMCDSB stands for. Yeah, I don’t know if it’s been helpful, but that’s, that’s who I am and how I roll.


Sam Demma (23:32):
Thanks, Jen. Really appreciate it, you did a phenomenal job.


Jennifer Lemieux (23:35):
Thank you for the opportunity.


Sam Demma (23:37):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator Podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jennifer Lemieux

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Tania Vincent – Chaplain at St. Michael Catholic Secondary School

Tania Vincent - Chaplain at St. Michael Catholic Secondary School
About Tania Vincent

Tania Vincent (@stmchaplaincy) is the Chaplain at St. Michael Catholic Secondary School.  She is good friends with Angelo Minardi, a past guest on this show, and both of them share a very obvious passion for giving young people the best opportunities for future success.  

Connect with Tania: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St.Micheal Catholic Secondary School

What does a Chaplain Leader do?

Role of retreats

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Tania Vincent. She is the Chaplain or the Chaplaincy leader of St. Michael Catholic Secondary School. She was someone who was also introduced to me by another past guest on the podcast. If you go back to the early days, this show was launched, I interviewed a good friend of mine.


Sam Demma (00:59):
His name is Angelo Minardi, and he gave Tania, Tania’s name as somebody that he thought I should speak to. And I’m so glad that I did because we had such a passion filled conversation. You can feel the authenticity and the genuine desire to impact her students in Tanya’s voice. And she shares so much amazing wisdom and advice from her own past experiences and for what she thinks the future might look like in education. I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I enjoyed speaking to Tanya to create it and I will see you on the other side. Tanya, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. It is a huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by sharing with the audience who you are and how you got into the work that you do with young people today?


Tania Vincent (01:47):
Sure. So thanks. First of all, Sam, thanks for having me. So my name is Tania Vincent, and I’m currently the Chaplaincy leader at a high school in Bolton, Ontario called St. Michael Catholic Secondary School. Before I was a Chaplaincy leader, I was a high school teacher for about nine years and I I taught religion at a few different schools in Brampton. How did I get into this? I studied religion in University. And who in the world does that? And what do you do with that after you study religion and university? Well, I had no idea and I ended up going to teachers college and it turned out that I really, really loved the idea and loved the actual work with students, particularly with teenagers. And here we find ourselves today, you know, still doing it, still going at it, still trying to do it. And it’s been, it’s been great.


Sam Demma (02:42):
That’s awesome. At what point in your educational journey did you know, you know, yes, chaplaincy leader, that’s what it’s gonna be. Was there a defining moment for you or a progression?


Tania Vincent (02:54):
So I when I started teaching, I I just come outta teachers college and I worked with someone who kind of inspired me to go on to do some graduate work that I had never really thought about before. And so I started doing that and then I realized that this role that I have now in chaplaincy, that there was such an opportunity there to connect with to, with, to, to connect with young people in a very different way. It’s one thing when you’re a classroom teacher and you’re delivering curriculum, but you form a very different kind of relationship and rapport with students when you’re a chop and sea leader. And when you’re, you know, trying to encourage and help students kind of find their way in their journey of faith, even in adults in that matter. So that’s kind of how I ended up where I am today and what kind of inspired me to do. So


Sam Demma (03:43):
That’s cool. And I’m sure when you first started in this role it definitely looks different this year, as it does for anyone working in a school. What are the current challenges your school is facing? And there might be similar challenges in all schools and maybe what are some of the ways some of those challenges have been overcome, that’s working for you guys and you think might be valuable for other educators to hear?


Tania Vincent (04:07):
So I think first and foremost, the biggest challenge that I’m finding is that, or that I’m noticing in our school anyways, is student engagement because, you know, right now the way the model works in our school board in different field is students. It’s a hybrid model. Some students have chosen to stay home and, you know, be totally virtual a hundred percent. But for those that are in a hybrid model, they come to school for about two and a half hours in the morning. You know, they, they go straight to class and then they leave and there’s no, you know, you, there’s no, you know, leaving class to, you know, wander the hallway for 30 seconds or five minutes or whatever. There’s no there’s, there’s no opportunity to interact with other staff, with other students. You just come to go to your class and leave.


Tania Vincent (04:57):
And so students don’t feel engaged. They feel disengaged because it’s really become a building. You know, schools are, are these kind of great places for communities to develop, whether it’s because of co-curriculars or sports or athletics, all of these things, none of those things are very few of those things are happening right now. So we have a problem with keeping students engaged in anything beyond education. And even when it comes the educational piece, you know, we, and, you know, the, the, the adults in the building, if you will, are still figuring out how to do some of the same things that we would normally have done when we were physically all together in a school. And so I think, I guess, you know, the challenge really is how do we now continue to move forward and continue to learn and, you know, try to keep these students engaged, not only in the academic part, but in the other kind of stuff that happens at school.


Tania Vincent (05:52):
So like me being a child, for example, I, my role is to try to continue to keep students engaged in the faith aspect of school and of, you know, and of their lives. And that’s been its own challenge. But one of the things that I’m seeing is working is I know for, for me, and even in speaking with other colleagues is a willingness on our part as the educators to really kind of do things and step beyond our own comfort zones when it comes to being virtual, when it comes to being accessible in a virtual platform. So even something like, you know, I used to run retreats, for example. So how do you now, how do I now run retreats when I can’t physically take students out of the building, or I can’t necessarily see them face to face? Well, now I, I deliver retreats.


Tania Vincent (06:39):
I lead retreats virtually. It’s not, it’s not amazing. But it’s, it seems to be working. And I think it’s something that, you know, I can continue to build on. And the same thing goes for, you know, class for teachers in their virtual classrooms. You know, initially I think a lot of teachers were, you we’re there and they were, you know, sharing PowerPoints and all this kind of stuff. And, you know, again, this issue of student engagement, but as we become more comfortable as the adults with the technology, then we’re able to kind of infiltrate a few more ways to, you know, maybe make students more involved in their own learning processes. But that’s something, you know, we have to work on too, right. Because we’re not, you know, like you said, you know, a lot of, a lot of things have changed since March and we need to be willing to move past what we’re used to doing. That’s the thing, right. Everybody wants to kind of mimic what we did before, what we did in person. And I think part of the challenge is recognizing that we can’t necessarily mirror or mimic what, what we did before, but we need to look at other ways to still keep students engaged and still remind them that we are a school community.


Sam Demma (07:47):
Yeah. That’s so true. And the community piece is huge. You know, how do we ensure as educators, as people that work in the school that the students still feel appreciated and heard. And I know that’s a big part of chaplaincy as well, because you’re almost like, you know, an extra guidance counselor that they might come to before going to a guidance office. You know, yeah. How do we make sure the students still feel appreciated? So I think,


Tania Vincent (08:15):
So I think, you know, I think first and foremost, I think they need to recognize a real, I should say that we are still accessible so that even though, you know, they can’t leave class to come and see me in my office, for example, or they can’t leave class to go and talk to a guidance counselor. That doesn’t mean that, that they’re still not able to contact me or contact, you know, a guidance counselor or whatever. So, you know, if I’ve kind of found more creative ways for them to do that. But I, I really think it’s really important that I continue, at least what I’ve been doing is I try to make, make sure that they realize that I’m available even virtually, you know, my DMS are open on Instagram, for example. Right. So I know it, it sounds kind of funny, like to hear someone say that , but it’s true because a lot of people, a lot of students will reach out to me that way as, Hey, miss, can I come and talk to you about something?


Tania Vincent (09:06):
Absolutely. And then, you know, you can use that that’s, you know, just an opening door for them, but letting them know that they’re still, their, their voice is still being heard. Their concerns are still being heard and addressed, and we wanna hear their concerns. I think that’s part of it too. Right. We, they need to know that not only are we accessible, but we wanna hear what they have to say. I know when I, when I meet with students, when I meet with a, you know, a small group of students once a week, I always kind of ask them, it’s not even, you know, I asked them, what is it I can do for you that maybe I’m not doing or something that I did before when we were, you know, in total lockdown that you really appreciated that I can maybe bring back that I haven’t been doing, but what is it that you wanna see as students in our school to, you know, to ensure that you feel appreciated because students are a huge part of our school be community.


Sam Demma (09:57):
Yeah. I would argue almost the whole part , but yeah, without the, without the teachers and educators, but and you guys play a huge role in organizing the community and keep it moving along and transforming the community. I think a huge part of school is also, you know, helping students become self com confident in their abilities, because a lot of the time they don’t know what they’re doing. We don’t know what we’re doing. We have to learn as we go, you know, a student gets a new assignment, they have to learn the, the barrier is for them to say, I believe in myself enough to find the information, to figure this out. And I think, you know, that transformation is a, a huge part of, of school and of education. Do you have any stories of transformation that you’ve seen as a direct result of education in your school? And the reason I ask is because another educator might be a little burnt out right now thinking like, I don’t know what’s going on this year. You know, maybe this is their first year teaching and they’re like, what the heck am I doing here? And those stories might motivate them to remember this work is so important.


Tania Vincent (10:59):
Yeah, I think, you know, in my, in my own personal experience, one of the things that I do every day, one of my jobs, if you will, is to lead the school in prayer every morning. Mm. And so what I do with my, so I write these reflections and you know, on a very personal level, they become all was therapeutic, I guess, or they’ve allowed me to kind of exercise a muscle that I haven’t exercised in a while, but I digress. And so I, you know, I see them every morning at school, but we have a large, you know, number of students that aren’t in the building. So I also post them on Instagram. Hmm. And, you know, I, I spoke before about making sure that students know that I’m accessible. And so one of the things that I’ve had happen a lot, whether we were, it happened when we were sort of in lockdown and schools first shut down and it continues to happen now is me, you know posting these reflections and they’re about all kinds of things.


Tania Vincent (11:53):
And I try to make them kind of relevant to, you know, to students and to, to younger people, to young people. But sometimes they kind of trigger something or, you know, you say something or I write something, I should say that somebody needs to hear that day. And they send me a message. They send me a D and that says, Hey, you wrote something to today. This kind of really, I really appreciated that. And it starts a conversation mm-hmm . And I think that whether you are like me and have to, you know, lead people in prayer every morning, or whether you are just starting off a class online that day I think it’s really important to try to say something that’s not necessarily even curriculum based, even if it’s just, Hey, how’s it going today, everybody, right. How are you feeling? What, you know, one thing I do when I meet with my group weekly is I ask them to give me their highs and the low, their lows for the week.


Tania Vincent (12:47):
And, you know, it’s amazing to know sometimes their highs are really great. Sometimes it’s like, Hey, you know, I did well on a quiz today. Something that might not seem so important in the grand scheme of things, but it gives a student an opportunity to, to think about something positive. And it also gives ’em the opportunity to share something that’s maybe not going so great. And as the adults, as the educator, you know, you get a, you get some insight into your students that you might not otherwise get. Right. Instead of being so curriculum focused, you’re so focused on getting things done. You know, the thing I feel like we’re so worried about making sure we get everything done, because we’re trying to mimic what we would normally do. And we, we have to, we have to try as a collective, I guess, I don’t even know, but we have to try to move past not, and remember that right now. I think the, the importance of relationship and building relationship with our students, I think that is paramount over everything else because everybody’s finding it, tough adults, kids, administration, we’re all finding this challenging. But if we realize that we’re all in this together, and if we just vocalize that with our students, I feel like that really can breed some really great things.


Sam Demma (14:02):
That’s amazing insight. And I’ve had so many other guests give such similar advice on relationships and building relationships. And I think that’s so powerful because when someone trusts you, they, they’re more open to tell you things. And that comes through a strong relationship that you build with them over time. You shed some great advice on the fact that we can’t continually focus on education, being something that we have to solely focus on shoving curriculum, you know, through the day and making sure we finish it but adjusting and allowing the students to speak or, you know, slightly adjusting to what they might need that day. If there’s an educator listening who’s in their first year, and maybe they got into a role where they took on that mentality of here’s the outline here’s what has to get done. What other advice would you give them, maybe even to your younger self when you first started?


Tania Vincent (14:55):
First take a breath that would be the first thing to take a breath and be open to trying new things, and don’t be afraid to, to fail. And I guess at the end of it all, really, what is, I guess, what I’m getting at is be patient with yourself. Mm. Cause I’m finding that even now, because we’re all trying new things and we’re all kind of figuring out this new mode of, you know, delivering education and building community, be patient with yourself. And if something doesn’t work oh, well, so it doesn’t work. So you don’t do it again. You know we have to be willing to kind of make mistakes and giving, granting ourselves a little bit of grace and patience when some of those things don’t work, but it’s gonna get easier. You know, that’s what I would tell them. That’s what I would tell my my first year self is it’s gonna get easier and in, you know, enjoy your students or enjoy your time with your students while, while you have there, because you can learn so much from them too. And you’re all experiencing this together. Like, you know, I said that already, but you, we’re all kind of figuring this out together. Don’t be afraid to make those mistakes and be patient with yourself when you do.


Sam Demma (16:05):
I love that. That’s such a great piece of advice. And if another educator is listening and wants to hit you up in the DMS or, you know, get in touch and just bounce some ideas around what would be the best way for them to do so?


Tania Vincent (16:20):
It’d either be on Instagram or on Twitter and you can find me there @stmchaplaincy.


Sam Demma (16:26):
Okay. Perfect. Awesome. Tania, thank you so much for making some time I chat on the show. It’s been a huge pleasure doing this, and I look forward to seeing all the work you continue to do in the school.


Tania Vincent (16:36):
Thanks so much for having me.


Sam Demma (16:38):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise, I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tania Vincent

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Pamela Pereyra – CEO & Founder of Media Savvy Citizens and Media Education Expert

Pamela Pereyra - CEO & Founder of Media Savvy Citizens and Media Education Expert
About Pamela Pereyra

Pamela (@aducateme) is passionate about helping youth and adults in their drive for transformative experiences through critical thought, creative expression and hands-on play. Pamela is a leading voice in media education with over 20 years of experience as a designer, trainer, consultant, educator and advocate. 

She is an authority in comprehensive media and digital literacy working with schools, nonprofits and companies to transform learning with media and technology. She has received the 2021 Media Literacy Community Award by the National Association for Media Literacy Education and the 2019 Media Literacy Champion Award by Media Literacy Now. As the chapter chair of New Mexico Media Literacy Now, she advocates for media literacy education for all students. 

Pamela is the founder and CEO of Media Savvy Citizens, which facilitates understanding, positive participation and meaningful media interaction for learners. Their work is centred on building the capacity and resiliency of youth and adults in a changing technological world through media education and technology training, facilitation and consulting through hands-on experience. Media Savvy Citizens worked with 30 New Mexico school districts transitioning them into digital learning into 2020 and 2021. 

She is also an adjunct instructor at the University of New Mexico and holds an MA in Media Studies. 

Connect with Pamela:  Email  |  LinkedinWebsite  |  Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Pamela Pereyra
Resources Mentioned

The National Association for Media Literacy Education

New Mexico Media Literacy Now

The Journal For Media Literacy Education

Media Savvy Citizens Youtube Channel

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Pamela. And I’m so excited to have her on the show here today. Pamela, why don’t you introduce yourself and share a little bit about who you are?


Pamela Pereyra (00:19):
Okay. So my name is Pamela Perrera and it’s Pamela. That is just pronounced in Spanish, just for the people out there who are wondering what’s going on. Yeah. I am the founder and CEO of Media Savvy citizens, which works on media education initiatives and the understanding positive participant and meaningful media interaction for all learners. I’m also I live in the states and I’m the chair of New Mexico chapter chair of New Mexico media literacy. Now, which advocates for media literacy education in the state of New Mexico.


Sam Demma (01:02):
You’re like the media ninja, the media expert. What is media, how do you define and explain media to somebody else?


Pamela Pereyra (01:12):
That is a great question. And I think everybody has their own conceptual ideas depending on like when they were born so when they came into this world and what their experiences are, there’s like media legacy, right? Which is like broadcasting and television and radio and the, but there’s also new media, right? Which is digital technology media. And so media in this broader scope is any form communication that is not face to face. So, if you think about it, any, if it goes through a medium, any communication that goes through a medium is a form of media. Mm. So a podcast is media, a, brand on a t-shirt is a form of media that has a communication, right? Mm-hmm so it’s like a billboard is media, a poster is media and ucell phone is media. And also like all the apps in the cell phone are different forms of me. So like most of what we do in our lives, especially now,uin 2022 and 2022 are, mediated communications. Right? Most of the work that we do, even our schooling is through mediums. Right. We go on the internet, we search things. We, participate in social media. We take pictures, we share, means all of those things are media and mm-hmm.


Sam Demma (03:01):
Yeah. It’s, it’s a big concept.


Pamela Pereyra (03:05):
It is a big concept. Right. So literacy like media literacy, right. Is being literate, being able to read and really read in like a conceptual way. Right. So being able to like, understand how these, all these different technologies work how we participate with them, how we act with them and also like you know, how we create with all of these technologies, right. So we can be passive or we can be active depending on our mood.


Sam Demma (03:39):
And I think whether you’re passive or active with the media, it’s important that you understand how it works and you understand, and are aware and media literate, like you’re saying, why do you think it’s important that someone is media literate or, and understands media?


Pamela Pereyra (03:58):
Well, we’re bombarded we with media, right? We live in a mediated world. We have people who are creating messages for us with different intentions. Right. And are they, and being aware and just taking the time to reflect and understand, is this a fact, is it an opinion, am I being persuaded who think a certain way or behave in a certain way? And so part of that, like media literacy is just taking a moment, you know, and taking a, a, you know, breathing space to understand what is happening. And also like, am I gonna participate? Am I gonna share this information? And if I share, how does that impact people? So yeah. And so like, is it not, you know, important to understand the world in which we live and the world in which we live is, is impacted by all different forms of communication, whether it’s entertainment or whether it’s work related and doing any kind of internet search, you know, or working like a two or three year old who have, you know, who are given tablets, right. These are tools that we use. And so being media literate just makes us a stronger, more engaged citizen, conscious of what’s happening and possibly even a more engaged in civics and possibly society and our democracies.


Sam Demma (05:27):
What got you inspired to work in this vocation to spread media literacy as much as you can, because it’s important work and you’re obviously extremely passionate about it. So what prompted you to start and get into it?


Pamela Pereyra (05:44):
Well, it’s been a process. I started out back in the nineties as a journalist, I studied communications. I understand, I understood and had studied public relations and like how messages are put together from the ideas of like layout to colors and the psychology of color to influence people, to make them feel certain things, to give, you know, provide certain headline, to engage people to, you know, and so everybody has different motivations, right. For putting messages together. And I realized that I didn’t really wanna do that. I wanted to work with youth and talk about a lot of these things and talk about how media function. And so it kind of started with a, well, it started with me like working in film and journalism and moving in publicity and then realizing I didn’t really wanna be a producer so much as I wanted to discuss a lot of these things with, with youth and, you know, how have a different kind of impact I am a producer, we’re all producers, you know, if we press like that’s producing something, it’s producing a message.


Pamela Pereyra (07:05):
Right. And, and so for me, like really working with students and like getting into a classroom, I did that through a film festival. I worked for this film festival and expanded their education programs. And so I worked with a lot of teens and we made all kinds of media and films and audio pieces, but we also discussed the impact of, you know, FM messages and the impact of media. And I felt like it was a good, well rounded form of like working with youth and seeing how positive, what a positive impact it had on teen’s lives and how they were thankful, you know, for being, going through the process and, you know, discussing things that for them felt really real and like authentic and things that were relevant to them. And so that has been, my driving force is really working with teens and seeing like the impact, you know, that that being media literate can have on people. And so I have not stopped because I feel like it helps, there is like a balance there, right? Like if we are just sitting back and only consuming, what does that do for us, you know, as a society. Right. So it’s great to consume. It’s also great to produce, and it’s great to do both and to consume with a consciousness and an awareness around like what’s happening.


Sam Demma (08:42):
It’s important, regardless of what subjects students are learning in school that they’re taught and explained, I think in some sort of context with global awareness with what’s going on in the world with media literacy. And I’m wondering what you think some of the key concepts are that you can pull from media literacy and, and apply to classroom learning that maybe an educator listening to might explore, look into or think about how they could tie into their own classrooms.


Pamela Pereyra (09:13):
Yeah. Well, media education fits into any subject, right? Yeah. Whether you’re working with math and like graphs and data and statistics, or whether you’re working in a social studies classroom or a English language arts classroom, or a health classroom, there are different concepts that educators can different concepts that educators can implement in their classroom. So there are different ways. So one of ’em is like, before I get into some of these concepts, one of ’em is like using media as a, as a way to like spur discussion, right? Like using a video or, you know, using media in the classroom and, you know, discussing things, making media, like making a video for instruction. So the educator can make a video for instruction or an educator can ring in media and like work on different projects and have students participate with that media as a learning tool and then even make, there are little podcasts in the classroom about like what the reflection was.


Pamela Pereyra (10:29):
Right. So when looking at different media we have like to discover meaning and it is, we go through a series of like questions. So there are like five major, key media literacy questions to look at. And this is like when you’re studying different ideas. So let’s just say somebody brings in, in a math class, a statistic and an infographic, right. On something, whether it be math class or science, I mean, it could be COVID right. So it could be like a COVID related science message and, and statistics. Right. So you, you could look at it from different way, but one of the things that you would look at the first one would be author and authorship who created the message, like who is the author who paid for that message. That’s also part of the authorship, right? Like where is this message coming from?


Pamela Pereyra (11:34):
So that’s one, the other the other thing would be purpose. Like why did somebody create this message? Were they trying to inform, were they trying to entertain? Were they trying to persuade have you think a certain way or act a certain way. Right. So discovering purpose, symbols and techniques is another, like, what symbols are they using? What techniques are they using to, to hook you, to hold your attention? So this may be you know, it could be D different words that are being used, different length, which like is their language loaded, is are the symbols like, are they using certain colors, like lots of red? Are they, you know, like, you know, what, what symbols and techniques are they using? If it’s a YouTube video are people you know, using sources and do, you know, does the information is the, you know, you’re looking at context as well, right?


Pamela Pereyra (12:43):
So like what are those techniques, even within like a, a YouTube video or something like that. Right. So then you’re looking at representation, point of view, whose point of view is this coming from? Right. So is this point of view whose point of view is being presented and who’s this not like who’s being represented and who’s not, you know, if you’re looking at a historical piece of writing to look at point of view is like fascinating. And, you know, when you bring in the concept of global right. A global world in which we live, and especially since we’re living in a network world, we are, we are, you know, global, right. So we are way more connected to anybody anywhere in the world and at the touch of a fingertip or cell phone. Right. so we are looking at like, what it, you know, what, what historical perspective would they be presenting this information from, if you’re so that’s representation, right.


Pamela Pereyra (13:49):
If you’re looking at different messages, right? Like, or a text and a history book, where is this text coming from? Mm-Hmm so you are really kind of decoding in order to code, right. It like looking at all this stuff, the, the last part would be interpretation. And like, what did I learn from this message? Like, how did that change me? How did, how might different people interpret a message? You know, being a woman and being a brown woman in my interpretation of certain messages are sometimes just the frame in which I look at my world, come from that place. Also being media literate, I continually continually ask questions of any, you know, infographic or piece of data, where did this, where’s this coming from? Is this credible? Is it not like who’s the author, you know, all of those things, but also you can have, like, teachers would have students make a certain infographic, right.


Pamela Pereyra (14:46):
For a, a science class or a, and so understanding the process of what goes into media making and also deconstructing the, to then construct, right? Like, why am I making this infographic? Who I, who am I whose point of view am I representing? Even with numbers and data, people represent a point of view. And so it’s like, seems a little bit kind of hard to conceptualize, but going through a process of like practice and practicing these, these questions like where you ask the questions and you decode, but then you also encode, right? You also code these things. You also can make an infographic. You can make a meme, you know, know and make it funny and make, you know, and bring that into learning and talk about point of view, you know, in a, in a meme, or you can pull a meme and kind of deconstruct it as a form of text.


Pamela Pereyra (15:43):
So a lot of what we do is like bring in these PE pedagogy, right? The pedagogy in the classroom and have teachers go through this process of like becoming and embodying the concepts of media literacy so that you know, where they’re consuming and decoding, but they’re also constructing so that then they can like help their students construct for the classroom for learning. There are more concepts, you know, and some of ’em are like media construct, our culture, you know, they shape culture, right? Mm-Hmm and media messages, do they affect our thoughts or attitudes or actions? They are, are most powerful when they operate on an emotional level and have emotional power. They Def always reflect the point of view, right. They always reflect the values, the viewpoint and intentions of media makers. Right. So anybody who’s making a message has a point of view that they’re shared and they have values and viewpoints.


Pamela Pereyra (16:56):
And so understanding that is important. So media messages contain texts, but they also contain subtexts. So what that means is there’s like what is said, but is also what is not sad was like implied. Yep. Right. So these are like, this is part of that framework for media literacy and like kind of going through a process of using media, but also like when I have students in, in the classroom, when I have students make something like, let’s just say, we’re gonna all make memes today and we’re gonna make memes on, you know, any subject matter that would be relevant. That is being studied. Like we’re making memes on the American revolution. So you study the American revolution you make, possibly will make a mean, but then you deconstruct a memes and understand like, what is a mean, you know, and what, you know, and, and how do they function to be able to make a meme, but then it’s related to whatever is being studied.


Pamela Pereyra (18:02):
Right? Mm-hmm so it might be related to the American revolution. And you know, what, if you, okay, everybody make a meme from this point of view, or from that point of view, make a meme from the point of view of a revolutionary or make a meme from a different point of view. And so it really helps bring, drive home the concept of like, what is being studied, but also that, like the understanding that there are different points of view and that there are different authors and there are every author has a purpose. Yeah. And every per, you know, and every message can be interpreted in a certain way. And so those are some of like the conceptual pieces that we put into practice, right? These are just like theory, right? These are concepts, but then to put them in a practice and to really bring that have teachers, like when we work with teachers, we have teachers use a lot of these concepts. They go through a process of a hands on decoding and then a hands on like making stuff. And it’s really fun. And they, they get to plan, you know, a lesson, they take a lesson and maybe like revamp it and be, make it media literacy focused. Uand that’s always really fun for teachers because they get to like sit down and like plan and figure out like, how can I make this more of a media literate lesson when I I’m already it’s some that already exists. Right.


Sam Demma (19:33):
Tell me more about the importance of the author. I think that’s a really cool concept. And I’m curious if any examples come to mind where you think it would’ve been very helpful for society to know who the author was of a certain message. I think about nutrition. And, and I watched a couple of documentaries on, and this is two years ago, and this is also, again, if I asked myself these questions, I would’ve had a better perspective on the documentary itself, but it was a documentary about not being vegan, but it was a document tree on reducing our intake of meat. And they started showing that behind most of the dairy and meat industry is like one sole company or like one massive company that has like 50 brands under it. And it’s like really one author. But then if I ask myself who made the documentary, there’s a whole other author who made, who made that with a whole different purpose. I’m curious why you think it’s so important that we ask ourselves who the author is when consuming a piece of media.


Pamela Pereyra (20:44):
I mean, this is like, authorship is like, it’s huge, right? Yeah. So, and a piece of media could be a lot of different things, right? Yeah. You were watching a documentary. And so to have that understanding of point of view, right? Like it’s all kind of related. Yeah. Because the author has a point of view. Right. And it’s made for a purpose and the purpose of that documentary for you, it was possibly made. So people could stop eating meat and become vegan because they were influence and it was meant to influence people to feel certain things. So they showed you certain images, those are symbols and techniques. Right. And they were presenting a certain point of view that was who have you be against eating meat. Right. Yeah. And so understanding the author really helps you understand the message right. And where it’s coming from and why it’s being put together.


Pamela Pereyra (21:40):
So when we’re looking at like a post truth world, right. We’re looking at like, what is, you know, when we’re discerning, whether it’s a piece of news, whether it is a presidential speech, whether it’s you know, a meme, a silly meme. Yeah. You know, if you are looking on know a lot of young people get their news from Instagram, right. So it’s like a caption and actually it doesn’t give you the whole story. So you don’t actually get the whole story. You only get a tiny component of it. So that also is like, has almost a different kind of authorship than the actual story. So when you’re looking at author, if you’re looking at you’re also thinking for me, you know, when we dig deeper and you go deeper into this kind of work, we’re looking at bias, right. So we’re looking at like, where is the bias and what is the bias?


Pamela Pereyra (22:44):
And like, even like, if I look at a media or article, right. A news article, the bias, like first I might be looking at like, okay, the author is Sam Demma. Right. That’s the byline, but, and Sam Demma may have written the article, but also Sam Demma works for a certain company. Right. That has certain point of view that they’re, you know, trying to relay. So if you’re looking at, you know, is I always look at, when I look at news, I think about, is this left leaning? Is it right? Leaning? Is it more central? Do these people stick to the facts? Do they not? Like there are a lot of a few different, and for news literacy, there are like media bias fact check. Right. Mm-hmm like, so there’s you can go and look at media bias and figure out like, where’s the bias in this company.


Pamela Pereyra (23:45):
Right. But also like, so you might realize like, oh, this is extreme, right. Or this is right leaning, or this is extreme, left or left leaning. Or this is, you know, they’re presenting news. Especially if you look at news, cuz it’s supposed to be centered, right. It’s supposed to be objective and presenting both sides of the story, but is it trying to influence you still to look at a, in a certain influence you to, to, to lean in a certain way? And so when you’re looking at author, I look at the byline who the person is. I look at the company and who the company is. I look at the bias and what the biases of that company also, like it might be the funders like of different like organizations or companies, like how is this project being funded? Who’s funding it.


Pamela Pereyra (24:38):
And like, where’s the money coming to back up, you know, to back the, that project. And so it’s, you know, it’s, it’s really quite complex because there are many authors to one piece of news or one documentary, like you said, right. So it might be like the person, the director of that documentary and the writer of a documentary, but also like the, you know, like, is it whoever put out that memory, right. Is it like 21st century Fox or is it, you know, Warner brothers or is it Disney? And you know, like who’s putting that out and you know, and so there are, there are many authors yeah. To, to a piece of media, you know? Uso that, and also when you’re looking at stuff that could be,unot credible, I guess, would be the, the right word when you’re looking at information that could be not credible.


Pamela Pereyra (25:37):
That lacks credibility, the lacks validity then is, is important to understand when you’re looking at authorship to know like, how do you find something, whether something is credible or not, how do you know if something is reliable? How do we know if something is valid? And there’s a whole process that we go through, which is gonna take me to train you Sam you’re probably, and you know, like that, because it’s, it’s a process, you know, and it’s practicing the, these skills. Like it’s not a one time shot. It’s not even like a one semester shot. It’s ongoing from kindergarten through college and onward on through your life, you know, to continually practice these skill sets, you know, to ask questions and be curious about media and message and like, you know, and what that is a, a book, a textbook is a piece of media that has a point of view and has, you know, authors and, you know, if, and so who are those authors?


Pamela Pereyra (26:46):
What is their point of view and how is it being presented whose point of view is being presented. So all of that can be decoded from a textbook and also what’s inside that textbook. Right. And so to understand that just means that we begin to understand, like by and begin to understand point of view and representation and begin to understand our world in a different way. When we ask questions, when we go through the process of inquiry, you know, of of communications, right? And like question our world and question our, you know, question the Instagram posts that we see and we, you know, and we question it in a curious way, it doesn’t need to be negative. Yeah. It doesn’t need to be like bad. It’s just like, I, media literacy, doesn’t tell people what to think. It just helps people to go it through a process of how do you go through the process of critical thinking, right?


Pamela Pereyra (27:48):
Yeah. Like, how do you do that? How do you, you know, ask questions of authorship to understand if something is credible or not credible. Right. Got it. And if something is like a conspiracy or not like, how do you figure that out? You know? And there are, and so we have to continually go through the processes. And I do a lot of research. I of like, when I look at an author, I don’t just look at like, who is Sam Demma? You know? I mean, I actually, don’t just look at the author and like read the article I go through and figure out who is the, you know, the author’s name, right? Who is Sam? What is he? You know, what do other people say about Sam? Like, and like, I, what is called what used to be called, like triangle reading. And, but now it’s called lateral reading.


Pamela Pereyra (28:36):
When you do the research and you read across and you open up a bunch of tabs to figure out who is the telling the story about this documentary, like, yeah. Not just like who is the director, but is like, who is this company? And who is, you know, and who are these brands that are trying to influence me to, you know, to drop eating meat and to be vegan and, you know, and what’s, you know, all of that. So I think in the end know, authorship, I know this is a long, you know, I know this is a really long answer, but I think authorship is like so important because understanding who is putting messages together and why really helps us understand what’s credible. What’s not especially right now, you know, and we’re, we’re living and I’m just gonna repeat myself where we’re living in this in a, in a world that is complex.


Pamela Pereyra (29:31):
And it’s hard to understand, like there are a lot of authors there, EV anybody’s a producer, anybody could put, you know, could produce information. And is there information credible? Like when sometimes within a piece, somebody might quote a doctor. I go and figure out, is this doctor who is this doctor? You know, is it a doctor, a philosophy that’s actually being quoted for a, you know, for a scientific, you know, opinion, you know, piece, is this like, so then a doctor of philosophy would then make that person that credible, right. If they’re being quoted in something that just because they’re a doctor, doesn’t make him an expert in COVID, doesn’t make him an expert in like, you know, whatever is that they’re talking about. So even within a piece, I go, I might search different people different because they’re also, you know, part of the whole story.


Sam Demma (30:24):
It, I got it. And media literate, like citizens in society is so important. If educators are listening and want to integrate media literacy more into their classroom, one way they could do it is by going on your website, media savvy citizens, and getting in touch with you but how else can they learn? How, what, what can they read? What other pieces of media have you found very insightful in your own journey of learning about media literacy? any books, courses, videos that you think educators should check out as a, or to start their own journey.


Pamela Pereyra (31:04):
Yeah. And I’m glad you asked that there there’s a lot of information out there. Media literacy has become more and more popular. And just to clarify, there are media literacy is this big umbrella, which looks over news literacy, which is a subset information literacy C, which is also a subset digital literacy, digital citizenship. So depending on what they’re looking at, they’re looking for, they can find different information. Some people call digital media production, media literacy. Well, it’s just like a small component of it, but it’s not all of it. And then, you know, and so, you know, it’s, it’s, I just wanna make that distinction. Sure. Because if you just look up the word media literacy, like you’re gonna find only news literacy or only certain, you know points of view that it’s not the whole scope. So the national association for media literacy education is a great resource.


Pamela Pereyra (32:01):
That is a resource for educators. That really breaks down a lot of these concepts that I talked about, the key media literacy questions and like resources there. They have they put together a journal, which is a journal for media literacy education. I think it’s called. And so they, you know, you can go through them. There are also the I’m the, like I said, I was, I’m the chapter chair for New Mexico media literacy now, but media literacy now is an advocacy organization and they also have a ton of resources on their website. So it’s media literacy now.org. And they have a lot of resources on their website to access different information and courses and different things. And not courses necessarily, but just entities, you know, that are media receive media education entities. So yes, media savvy citizens, which is my project.


Pamela Pereyra (33:06):
We have a lot of resources, our YouTube channel, lots of webinars and different resources on our highlights page that people can access for, you know, for free and different like information specific to media. Like I, the scope of media education. Hmm. Yeah. So those are some places to go to. And, you know, and now if somebody wants to just specifically deal with news, then you know, they’d be looking at news literacy. You know the center for news literacy is a great place, you know, for just news literacy resources, but media literacy overall in general and resources for media literacy, I think is net national association for media literacy education is a great place to start. Sounds


Sam Demma (33:57):
Good. And where can someone send you a message by email online? What would be the best way for them to get in touch?


Pamela Pereyra (34:07):
Yes. Thank you for asking. So Media Savvy Citizens is the name of my entity. And so my name is spelled like Pamela. So they could just email me pamela@mediasavvycitizens.com. You can, most people can just go on my website, https://www.mediasavvycitizens.com/ and go to the contact page. You can, people can subscribe there and they can just peruse the website, my, my events page and my past events page. I have tons of resources there as well. So any talk that I have done this specific piece of in this interview, I will put a link together there once, you know, I get the link. So any interview that like media savvy citizens has been involved in, and there was a lot of information there as well. So as far as resources, and then as far as contacting me, go to the website to the contact page.


Sam Demma (35:12):
Pamela, thank you so much for taking your time to come on the show. It’s been a pleasure. Keep up the great work and all the best in 2022.


Pamela Pereyra (35:20):
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate your time.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Pamela Pereyra

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Larry Tomiyama – Consultant and Retired Administrator with 32 Years of Experience in Education

Larry Tomiyama - Consultant and Retired Administrator with 32 Years of Experience in Education
About Larry Tomiyama 

After spending over 30 years of his life as an administrator in the Calgary School system in Canada, Larry (@TomiyamaLarry) was gifted the opportunity to work with some of the most vulnerable and behavioural students in his school system.  Through that experience, Larry learned so much about trust, trauma-informed teaching, and how to build really deep relationships with kids.

He believes that his opportunity to work in this environment was a gift from God because it truly changed the way Larry understood education, leadership and life. He was so motivated to share his discoveries, he left the school district so he could speak with other educators and leaders about what he had learned.

Connect with Larry: Email | Website | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Robert Greenleaf’s book – Servant Leadership

Neuroteach: Brain Science and the Future of Education – Book

What is Trauma-Informed Teaching?

Calgary Board of Education

In Everything Give Thanks (website)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Larry welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Please introduce yourself and share a little bit about the work you do in education.


Larry Tomiyama (00:11):
Thanks. It’s a pleasure and privilege to be here, Sal. It was great to meet you the other month and I’m happy to be here today. So I’m a,, I guess a lifelong educator, if you count of when I was in school it would be 55 years almost that I’ve been in school as either a student a teacher, a university professor. And I guess even the speaking that I do right now and the everything that I get to do right now is due to the path that God provided the opportunities that he provided for me. And it all kind of culminated in the last two years of my K to 12 teaching career with the Calgary Catholic school district. And in those last two years, I got to work with, be the principal of a school that educated the most behavioral, the most vulnerable, the most volatile students in the city of Calgary.


Larry Tomiyama (01:19):
But those students and the staff that I got to work with taught me changed and transformed the way I think about education, about life and about leadership. And I believe it’s been my calling for the last five or six years to go share this information with anybody who wants to listen because it’s it, to me, it was, it just put everything into perspective. It made sense to everything, to that part of things. So I don’t know if you want to hear anything a little bit about my, how I grew up and things like that, but really everything is kind of culminated. And the purpose of, I think why I’m on earth is occurred in, in that little space of time. I’m in, in the last five years,


Sam Demma (02:06):
What a beautiful realization to have and to still be able to share and have the time to share these things, which is phenomenal. I think you’re doing an amazing job. Please take us back to when you were growing up, tell us a little bit about your upbringing and also what got you into education in the first place, or should I say made you never leave?


Larry Tomiyama (02:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, my, parents were both, Japanese. My mom was born in Japan. My dad was born in, Canada and, so I grew up in a small Alberta town of Taber, Alberta. 5,000 people there. It was a fantastic place to grow up. Small town, you went to school there. My dad owned a service station in a town, just, just east of the city. my mom worked in a canning factory, canning vegetables when she wasn’t, at home chasing us around, I have two brothers and a sister and, get to hang out with them in Calgary. So that’s, it’s great. both my parents have passed at this at right now, but, certainly the work ethic and the example that they provided will live on. And I hope, and I know that, they’re in heaven right now and I’m happy with most of the stuff that I do.


Larry Tomiyama (03:34):
But I’m sure wanna criticize me as well, too. So I’m, I’m okay with that. I’m okay with that. I went played a lot of baseball and basketball as I grew up and sports is a big part of my life and was able to pass that on to our kids, my own kids as I grew up. So went to the university of Calgary, started my teaching career in Calgary and never left and had a really, really fulfilling career as a teacher, as a principal worked at the, our central office for a little while and then kind of only moved into the post-secondary world. But that’s been part of it, but really the again, things really culminated in basically 2015 to 2017. And in those two years that I got to work with those students. My wife was gonna kill me, as I said, right after that, then I know I have to go share this information and I decided to leave the district. And that was not part of our retirement plan, but it had to be done. Luckily I’m still married. So,ushe was okay with it.


Sam Demma (04:57):
Hey, sometimes you have to ask for forgiveness and not permission, right.


Larry Tomiyama (05:02):
That was definitely one of those occasions sound I don’t re I don’t recommend it, but it worked out. Okay.


Sam Demma (05:09):
Bring us into the environment of the school that you had the opportunity to work in. I don’t think every educator understands the feeling, the experience. Tell us a little bit about, and also what you learned


Larry Tomiyama (05:23):
You bet. I think if it’s okay with you, Sam, I’ll tell you a little bit about it and then I’ll tell you a story. And it really it kind of, I think people get a better visual visualization of what’s there. Sure. So our lady alert school was created to educate those students because of their behavior, because of their brokenness, because of their issues that they were having. They couldn’t be successful in any other school. So they needed a place to go to do things maybe a little bit differently than other schools but to see if we could help them provide some type of therapy for them to get them to the point where they might be able to integrate themselves back into regular school. So most of the time these students been suspended or expelled from other schools and there’s really no else, nowhere else for them to go.


Larry Tomiyama (06:22):
So we got to educate them in our building. So we had 60 students. Half the building was for really cognitively delayed and students with severe, severe autism. And the other half was the students who, and I called them to screw you kids because they had no problem telling to, to screw off and many other things as well. But they were just students who had experienced no success in school. And as we found out lots of trauma that they experienced that caused them to not be able to function. And it was our opportunity that we got to help them function in a way that they can be a little bit more successful. So the story that kind of illustrates this really, really well is a story. I call this student little G I gave all my students nicknames and Ralph was really, really good then, and the kids really liked it.


Larry Tomiyama (07:31):
So they liked, they liked that name. So this guy was little G little G came to us in kindergarten. Story is that at the age of two little G had to be removed from his biological parents because his biological father was sexually abusing him. At age of four he was in the foster system and social services felt it was important for little G to be with a sibling to try and get a family connection. So little G was moved into a foster home with his 12 year old brother. He was four at the time that lasted about six months and he had to be removed from that house because his 12 year old brother was sexually abusing him. Enter us. We normally didn’t take students that young at five, we usually took them at grade three.


Larry Tomiyama (08:31):
We wanted them to go into a regular system and see if they could function. And then if there was a problem we would try and step in, but myself and our psychologist went to go see little G in his school that he was at. And we saw this cute, angry, sad, outta control, little boy. And I looked at her and she looked at me and we looked at each other and said, we gotta take him. So I entered little G into our school. I, he started in September. The hope was that we would hear at some point that little G was gonna be adopted. That was really the goal, social services working super, super hard to try and make that happen. And it was like November. And in November, we got the word that little G there was a family from out of town that was extremely interest in little G.


Larry Tomiyama (09:38):
It was like a party at our school. We started planning the party. His last day was gonna be December 22nd. I think it was the last year of school. And then he was gonna leave school with the family and go to their help. And in in conversations and therapy sessions little G had mentioned over and over and over again that he just wanted to call somebody, mom and dad again. And so we heard this news, we did everything. We invited the family in. We saw, we let little G be with his perspective parents. As many times as we could at school, things were looking really, really good. And I remember it so clearly it was December 21st, the last day before school was to let out. And I got a call from Steve, the social worker, and Steve said, Larry, I’ve got some bad news. I said, what’s that? The parents can’t take little G they’re not ready. They don’t want ’em. I don’t know what the reason was, but they can’t take ’em. So I’ll be there tomorrow morning, the last day of school tomorrow morning to let little G know that that’s what the situation was.


Larry Tomiyama (10:55):
Selfishly, selfishly, on my part, I it’s, Steve, this is. You’re gonna come to school at nine o’clock wreck this kid’s life again, and we’re gonna have to deal with them for the rest of the day. I’ve got no choice, Larry. We gotta do it. Fair enough. So December 22nd rolls around we’re in the conference room, I’m sitting across a little G little G’s teacher is sitting across from Steve. The social worker. We bring little G in our little G’s teacher is she’s crying already. And we’re just waiting. So the meeting starts and Steve communicates the little GE gee, I’m sorry that the, the adoption didn’t go through the, family’s not gonna take you and you’re not gonna be going home with them today. And I just put my head down and waited for the explosion and to everyone’s surprise, LGI jumps up onto the table that we are at jumps into my lap and says, that’s okay, Steve, Mr. T that’s me, Mr. T you’ll be my dad. Right.


Larry Tomiyama (12:23):
And I had nothing and I was praying to God, what the hell do I say? What do give some words, gimme some words. And what came outta my mouth was absolutely. I will always be your dad at school. G always, always, always. And he jumps outta my, laughing into this teacher’s lap who can’t even talk and says, and miss G you’ll be my mom too. Right. And I, and she couldn’t even breathe. So I took her head and I motioned it for a nodding action. So she would say, yes, I think that was a yes. G you’re doing okay.


Larry Tomiyama (13:03):
So the, the reason why I tell that story is because we got to work with these students who experienced trauma and everything else that no student should ever, ever have to experience, but we got the chance through the model that we used to get that kid to the point where he thought enough of us thought enough of me thought enough of his teacher, that he might be able to call him mom and dad. And we have that opportunity every day. And this is an extreme case for sure. But every day, as educators, as teachers that we have, when we get to step in front of our students, there’s lots of little G’s out there, lots. And in order for us to be able to tee each them, those kids need to feel safe and they need to feel that somebody cares about them.


Larry Tomiyama (14:04):
And I don’t care if you’re in grade, if you’re in kindergarten and grade 12, that, that model, that formula in order to make those kids safe and secure prior to teaching them and get them to trust you. It just spoke volumes to us as a staff. And we got to do this every day. Not that it was easy. In fact, it was brutal sometimes, but to be able to do that, it showed me why we got into the business at educating and teaching kids and how we can get them to learn to like themselves enough to be productive in the, in, in whatever that they do. So, like I said, I can go into the model a little bit more if you want, but certainly he’s a great example of teaching us what needs to be done with these, with some of these kids.


Sam Demma (15:08):
Wow. But before we jump into the model and talk about that a little bit, can you share in your perspective how you believe you’re able to build trust with students? Not only the challenging ones, but also the easy ones. You shared some experiences on our previous call that really highlighted how I believe, you know, sometimes building trust is a long process and can be very challenging, but once you have it, like you just explained with little G it becomes a beautiful thing. How do you think you build it?


Larry Tomiyama (15:46):
It doesn’t matter if the, I mean, if, if a student is traumatized or not, sometimes, I mean, and, and the model speaks to it really well at the bottom of the model before anything happens, it’s safety. So the student needs to feel safe and how we define safety. When we worked with these kids was that the student needs to be able to predict what’s gonna happen next. That’s what safety is because in their lives, in their homes, in their situations, you’re not safe. If you can’t predict, I don’t, they can’t predict how mom’s drunk boyfriend is gonna act. They can’t predict if they’re gonna have supper that day. They can’t predict if they get in trouble, what that’s gonna look like. So we are able at school will be able to create an environment where they can predict what’s gonna happen regardless of, of how they act, what they say or what they do.


Larry Tomiyama (16:41):
They’ll be able to predict how we’re gonna act towards them and that’s respect respectfully, lovingly whatever we need to do that doesn’t, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t consequences. Cause there consequ are critical, but students need to feel safe. The next step that we need after we got them to feel safe, we called it security and security is that they’re willing to do things, even though they might fail, they feel secure enough because of the adults in the room or their teacher or whomever that even though if they fail, it’s gonna be okay. And kids, especially kids who struggle in school, they don’t, they’d rather not try than fail. So we need to get ’em to that point where you know what it’s okay to. And I actually, I was listening to another podcast and people didn’t like that word failure. So they used the word falling instead of failure.


Larry Tomiyama (17:46):
And I kind of like that, cuz falling gives the connotation that that you followed, but you want to get up as well. Mm like that. I like that. Yeah. So, so first safety, security, and then trust and trust was vague. They knew how we were going to react in every situation, even though it was a consequence and, and there were, there were students that I suspended. But they knew that what was gonna happen, they were able to predict that part of things as well. The reaction of, of somebody when things didn’t go right. And once that was there ex that’s when the magic happened, but that sometimes that took years, but even, even in a regular classroom, their kids that, that are trustworthy already, just because they’ve had pretty solid background, loving parents, et cetera. But they still used to it’s they still gotta trust you so you can prove it to them.


Larry Tomiyama (18:54):
And it comes pretty easy for a lot of kids and teachers. But it’s that bottom third to bottom quarter where it’s not easy. So we have to work a little bit harder. We have to make an effort. They might be the kid in the class. And you might think that kid is the greatest kid in the world. He doesn’t say a word. He doesn’t bother me. He’s fantastic. But he might not feel safe. So we need to go and make an effort to create those relationships with those kids. It’s easy for the kids that you, like. I tell the kids that, you know, the teachers in training that you think you’re gonna, like all the kids, you’re not gonna like all the kids. In fact, you might not, you might dislike a lot of them or some of them, the key is they can’t know that every kid in that class needs to think that you’d love them. Your inside voice might not say so, but it’s okay. They just need to know that you care about them and yell. And then, like I said, that’s where the joy of teaching comes from when you get that pack from the students. So hopefully it might be kind of confusing, but hopefully I explained it.


Sam Demma (20:13):
Okay. You did a phenomenal job explaining that. And it leads me to my next curious question, where have your principal’s ideas come from? It sounds like a lot of them have come from your past experience. The two years spent in this school and the 55. So or so years you spent in education altogether, but what resources, what courses, books programs, anything have you used or consumed that have been very helpful in helping you make a bigger impact on kids in the classroom and also as an administrator?


Larry Tomiyama (20:53):
Yeah. You know what it’s to say that there was I mean, a, a big on Robert Greenleaf’s book, servant leadership was certainly influential in my life, but you know, most of my stuff and, and most of the things that I speak about is from firsthand experience stuff that I screwed up royally as a principal, as a thing, and then to be able to think back record it, document it and understand, okay, that’s, that’s why I messed up on that. I should have it this way, or I should have asked for more input this way or they didn’t trust me yet. So I’ve taken what those kids taught me and the model that we used there and brought it back to the way that I was a leader in the way, the, the successes that I had and the failures that I had. And it’s all the same thing when I messed up.


Larry Tomiyama (21:51):
And, and I thought my staff should act this way and they didn’t it’s because I didn’t take the proper steps to get ’em safe. They didn’t feel safe. They didn’t certainly didn’t trust me. After a year, two and a half, they trusted me and then I could, then we do anything and everything. And we created culture. That was amazing, but it took me that while. So like I said, it was a culmination of those two years, but all the years that I was a principal and as a, a leader with the district and things like that, it all made sense to me when I got to live it with these students. And it made sense why I fell or failed in that situation. And it made sense why I am success. I was successful in many of those ventures. If there’s another book that I’m, that’s really influential in my life, right, right now it’s called neuro teach and is written by educators.


Larry Tomiyama (22:55):
And it’s all about brain-based research. And, and again, all the stuff that I thought is now reinforced by recent brain research. That that’s why we are able to help these students said we did. That’s why many of these kids were so stuck that when they were traumatized and they were young, their brain was damaged, physically, physically damaged. But research also shows that we have an opportunity to create neurons in the brain. That’ll help switch or flip their script, that all these people hurt me in my life. So I’m not lovable. I’m not likable and switch that to your more than lable. You’re more than likable, more than worth it. And we’re gonna show you why you’re worth it. So it, it, I don’t know. I I’m just, most of my life is cuz I’m a little bit messed up and that’s how we kind of evolve for me that those two years risk reinforced all the things that I had done before. And it’s really created and given me a a platform and a foundation to be able to share some of this information.


Sam Demma (24:18):
And you do a phenomenal job sharing it and telling it through the old art of storytelling in a way that’s engaging and fun for the audience. And last time we connected, you shared the story of I don’t know if that made a good representation of the sound or what happened, but, man you share that story before we wrap up today’s uhonversation and what you learned from it personally, if remember,


Larry Tomiyama (24:46):
Yeah. W was that with the I’m trying to think of which story that I had told was that with the little guy that I was in the timeout room with, correct. Ah, okay. Okay. So let’s, let’s call this student OB. And so OB was a grade three student who came from a war torn country. And his life was basically before he came to Canada, was running and fighting in refugee camps. So he comes to Canada and not functional in a regular school, kicked out of a number of schools or Exel from a number of schools just because he wasn’t able to, to function in a regular classroom. So we arrived at our season grade three and as most kids are, they’re not really that happy when they start in our building, because it’s just another place that they’re gonna be unsuccessful at and they’re gonna get kicked out of.


Larry Tomiyama (25:54):
And that’s where their head is at. So I got a call from the classroom saying that’s coming down and it doesn’t look like he’s very, he’s very happier. He is not ready to start class. So I said, fine. So I leave my office and O’s coming down the stairs and I know he’s not doing really well because he’s sucking his thumb. And that was his coping mechanism for when he was stressed or anxiety rid. And he comes down the stairs and I said, OB, how you doing? Just take a seat on the chair and we can get started with the day when you’re ready. You let me know. And he had his thumb in his mouth and everything. He just says, sure, up, shut up, Mr. T screw you. So it went on and, and on to that nothing that was pretty tame to some of the names I was called.


Larry Tomiyama (26:48):
So I was okay with that. And he came down, so it came down the stairs and was really, really angry, started throwing chairs, throwing things around and then went after a student. So we had intervene and when a student gets violent, we have a room that we call our calming room. And it’s basically a six by six cinder brick wall room with a door and a window in it. And so we brought him in there and he lost his mind in there. Kickings spitting, anything that you can think of. And usually they calm down after a while. So when they calm down, we enter the CLA enter the room and, and see if we can work with them. And so I walked into the room and he was lying in the corner of the room and started to get violent again. So I had to leave. And so I just waited and waited them out and got quiet. And he was mumbling and mumbling. I said, OB, are you okay? What are it’s gonna happening? Oh, I felt, tell me MRT. And I said, what’s that OB what’s happening, whatever you need. And he says, MRT, I’m gonna take their outta your and rub it right in your eyes.


Larry Tomiyama (28:23):
I couldn’t even talk. I was laughing so hard. I, I thought that’s so brilliant. How can and someone be so elevated? So, so mad and think of something like that. It took me like five minutes before I could collect myself. I looked in there and he’s crying again in the corner. So I walk, I walk in, open the door and I just sit on the floor and don’t do anything. And,uhe looks at me and I look at him, he puts his head down and nobody says a word for another five minutes. Uand then I see him army crawl over to me and put his head on my leg. Cause I’m sitting down in the ground. So he sat there for a few minutes and he’s crying and crying. And then he kind of collects himself. And he says to me, Mr. T, you can hurt me now.


Larry Tomiyama (29:24):
And I said, OB, what are you talking about? No, one’s gonna hurt you. That’s not why you’re here. We’re not doing that. Cuz he said, when I’m bad like that, and I say bad things, my brother or my dad beats the. And so I, I said, OB, listen, it doesn’t matter what you say, what you do, no one is gonna hurt you here. That’s not gonna happen. So we sat there for a few more minutes and in my work sense of humor, I said to him, I said, you know what, OB, you know, that stuff said to me, you know, with this and putting in my eyes and stuff like that, I go, I don’t know how possible that is. Do you think you could really do that? And there was a pause and he says,uand then he just starts full out,ubelly laughing.


Larry Tomiyama (30:29):
Yeah. Things like that. I said, OB, go clean up and get your to class. Mm. And so it went off to class. The, the, the big thing with that again, is the safety piece. Mm. That a, in his mind he was predicting what was gonna happen. Yeah. So when he acts like this, then he gets hurt and we had to flip that and we had to convince him that doesn’t matter what happens and how much you lose your mind that you’re gonna be safe here. So that was a huge, huge step in creating that safety for him. And again, this is an extreme story, but we can do little acts in our classrooms that show students that it doesn’t matter. What’s gonna happen. Whether whether we reprimand you or not how we say it or whatever. But you’re gonna be safe in my class. And that’s really, really the that’s the place to start


Sam Demma (31:27):
Love that. That’s such a powerful story along with the other one you shared and I’m sure there’s hundreds upon


Larry Tomiyama (31:33):
Hundreds. Yeah, no, it’s some of ’em are, are so ridiculous. They’re funny. Yeah. ,


Sam Demma (31:42):
That’s so true. Well, Larry, this has been such a pleasure with you about the, you know, the philosophies, the principles you have, the way you view education, the framework from which the school functioned. It’s really interesting. And if another educator is listening and is inspired by this conversation or has enjoyed it and wants to ask you a question or invite you to their event, what would be the best way for, for them to get in touch with you?


Larry Tomiyama (32:08):
Probably. I mean, if you need more information, I mean, my website’s not great, but it’s okay, but certainly it’s there. And my web website is https://ineverythinggivethanks.ca/about/. My email address is larry20ltomiyama@telus.net.

And shoot me an email take a look at the website that my contact information is on there. I’d be happy to talk to anybody. I talk to a lot of educators just about working with, at risk students about what, what I believe in leadership and what I, what I know works. And so I would be willing to share with anybody because it’s that’s what God God has asked me to do. And I don’t want to, I don’t wanna make him mad.


Sam Demma (33:06):
Larry, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate the time, effort and energy you put into your work and appreciate you sharing some of it here. Keep up the amazing job. And I look forward to our next conversation, hopefully on a golf course.


Larry Tomiyama (33:20):
My pleasure. Thanks.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Larry Tomiyama

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Steve Bristol – Assistant Head of School for Enrollment Management and Strategic Planning

Steve Bristol - Assistant Head of School for Enrollment Management and Strategic Planning
About Steve Bristol

Steve Bristol is the Assistant Head of School for Enrollment Management and Strategic Planning at the Hun School in Princeton, New Jersey.  He is a coach, mentor, and someone that deeply cares about the success of the young people in his school.  

Connect with Steve: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

The Hun School Website

US College Expo

Maine Summer Camps

Who is Gary Vee?

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another great episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today we, you have on someone that I met through an event called the US college expo. He was one of the US admissions representatives who was speaking to students about how they could pursue their education in the States. And he is the director of admissions and financial aid at the Hun school of Princeton in New Jersey.


Sam Demma (00:59):
He is also a former coach, a mentor, and someone who really cares deeply about the success of his students. It’s very evident in this episode that Steve Bristol, today’s guest has a mission to help as many students as he can while also, you know, keeping himself young by being surrounded by the contagious energy of today’s youth. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed recording it, and I will see you on the other side. Steve, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. It is a pleasure to have you on here. Start by sharing a little bit about who you are and why you got into the work you do with young people today?


Steve Bristol (01:38):
It’s my pleasure Sam. Thanks for the opportunity to, to chat with you. I’d love to give you an altruistic reason about why I work in schools and, and how I wanna shape the youth of America and of the world so that, you know, they’ll take better care of the world, and all of that, but really my motives are pretty selfish. It keeps me young. Oh, working with kids is, you know, it keeps you in touch with your own youth. I, I took a couple of years in my career where I went and I worked business schools and in those four years, I think I gained 15 pounds, my eyesight went, I had to start where and glasses, you know, that lifestyle just didn’t work for me. I felt like I’d aged 20 years and four years. And so I came back into schoolwork because it does keep you energized and keeps you young. So my motives are, are purely selfish. I do care about the future and I think kids are, are gonna lead that charge. But but I can’t be as generous with that as I probably should be.


Sam Demma (02:46):
That’s awesome. I love the authenticity. I’m curious to know, at what point in your own career search, did you make the decision? Yep. I’m going to work in education. Was there a defining moment or was it just a progressional choice? Yeah,


Steve Bristol (02:59):
There was actually was a kind of a moment there. I’m a product of the system. I went to a, a, an independent boarding school in, in the us nice for high school. And as I worked with a college counselor there who was helping me sort of decide what kind of colleges to go to. And, and at one point, you know, I was a little bit lost and , and he said, well, you know, what would you like to do after college? And, you know, at that point, I, I wouldn’t been exposed to very much. So I said, yeah, maybe I’d like to come back to a place like this and, and teach and coach. And he said, well, in that case, you know, go here, come back in four years and I’ll give you a job. So that combined with I did a, a lot of summer camp work as a teenager. And and so you get sort of your experience working with kids that way and living with them. And, and so when I did graduate from college, I, I went right into boarding school work where I ran a dorm, coached a couple of seasons and taught classes. And so I, I was the stereotypical, triple threat. They call it boring schools where you do a little bit of everything.


Sam Demma (04:08):
That’s awesome. Tell me more about the summer camps. Were you young when you did those? Not that you’re old now, but well


Steve Bristol (04:17):
yeah, I started working summer camp camps, probably in maybe 11th and 12th grade. I think I started, I did it for I was a camp counselor for three or four years, and then I took some time off and I came back and sort of became an administrator and ultimately became a co-director of a, kind of a traditional summer camp in Maine, which, you know, little SPO, little waterfront, little camping trips, you know, a very sort of, you know, very boarding school-like kind of place where you, you want kids to have a balanced experience and, and, and get exposed to a lot of different things. One of my worries with our kids today is that they, they need to be specialists. They need to be great today. You know, as eighth grader, they need to have found their passion and pursued it and, and be a young little expert. And, and I would rather kids keep trying some new things and to continue to be beginners at things for as long as they can. And I think summer camp and school can do that for kids.


Sam Demma (05:23):
No, it’s so true. There’s advice that this marketer, Gary V always gives, and he says, you don’t have to find what you like right away. That’s why when you go to a buffet, there’s a thousand options. And the way you figure out what you enjoy is you take a little piece of each little bin, you try it and you stop eating what you don’t like, and you keep eating what you do like, and yeah, I think sometimes kids limit themselves to one little portion of a buffet instead of trying all of it and


Steve Bristol (05:47):
Absolutely true. I, I actually used the buffet analogy in my own work here as I talk to families and I talk to them about, you know, hun, where I am now being a, a, a buffet where, you know, there’s lots of different clubs and activities and sports and music and art and all of those things who knows what’s gonna capture your attention. And, and if, if there’s anything we learned, it’s, you know, kids are gonna change as they grow up. They, they don’t need to lock in quite so early.


Sam Demma (06:16):
That’s so true. And right now at hunt, I know there’s some very unique challenges that all schools are facing. And I’m curious to know someone recently told me the state of education is like throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks . And I’m curious to know out of the spaghetti, you’ve already thrown in the challenges you’re facing, what seems to be working really well. And what are some earnings you’ve also had.


Steve Bristol (06:39):
It’s a great question. And, and it is, and the spaghetti analogy I think is, is a pretty accurate one. there’s a little more thought behind it before we throw it, but yeah. You know, obviously, you know, the hunt school, Princeton, where I am now, we’re a, we’re a boarding in day school in Princeton, New Jersey. And so we have local kids who are day students. We have domestic borders. So kids from around, you know, 18 different states in the us. And then we have kids that come from, you know, 20, we’ve got, these are trying to manage. What we’ve done is we put our kids into two teams and they come to school on alternate days. So kids come every other day for in-person classes and that’s reduced the density in our classrooms. A lot of our international kids are, are studying virtually and they’re logging in from home and attending classes that way.


Steve Bristol (07:44):
It’s, it’s a phenomenal challenge for teachers that are on the, the, the ground floor of this that are standing in a classroom with, you know, five kids sitting at a table in front of them and another seven kids on a screen behind them. And, and how do you serve both of those groups and, and, you know, and work intentionally in our classes are small and we, we want to give personal attention. And so they’re trying to engage all of those kids into the conversation and into the class, and, you know, and, and into practical work, instead of, you know, the old kind of teaching where the teacher just lectures and the kids take notes, we’ve moved pretty far away from that to where our classrooms are really dynamic and active and interactive trying to do that. Both virtually and in person at the same time is I think is a phenomenal challenge on top of that. You know, we’ve gotta keep everybody safe. You know, we, we’ve got, we’ve put in a phenomenal amount of safety and health protocols. We all get screened every morning before we come to school. Yeah. You know, I get my temperature checked and I get a little bracelet that the screener gives me that says, I’m, I’m good to go for today. But it’s, you know, the health and safety piece is, has dominated our work all summer long and, and on a daily basis.


Sam Demma (09:07):
Yeah, no, that’s, that, that makes a lot of sense. Things are definitely changing really, really fast. And sounds like unschool was doing a great job of adjusting on the fly and trying to still be of service to students as much as they possibly can. I’m curious to know when you were a student, did you have someone in your life who like maybe a coach who guided you, who pushed you that helped you when you were at a low point in your life? There might be a coach that sticks out in mind. And the reason I’m asking is I’m curious to know what that coach did for you, so that other educators listening might think about doing the same thing for their students.


Steve Bristol (09:45):
Yeah. I, I, I have a very specific experience that really set me in a lot of ways. It’s been the foundation of my own teaching coaching. I was a senior in high school and, and was a pretty serious soccer and lacrosse player, but I didn’t really play a sport in the winter. I’d done a little basketball, but, you know, I peaked on the JV team I think was as good as I ever got. And the athletic director came to me one day and asked if I would help coach the freshman basketball. They had a lot of kids out there. They had a teacher that wasn’t really, you know, he was more of a science teacher than a coach and, and kind of needed someone out there to help keep order. So, because the athletic director was also my advisor, I thought it would be a good idea to, to sort of do whatever he asked me to do.


Steve Bristol (10:34):
He where I knew it, I was coaching my own basketball team and we had a group below the freshman, you know, sort of freshman B is essentially who I was coaching. So these are the least athletic kids in the school. I’m doing it in a sport where I don’t feel a tremendous amount of confidence. You know, it, it was a recipe for disaster. So we went to our first away game and the athletic director drove the van and, and brought us there. And, and he just sat in the bench and he didn’t say a word the whole time, and I never shut up. I mean, I talked those kids through every step, every pass, every shot, I was just a, a constant voice in their ear in, in, you know, my trying to help them, you know, be successful and win the game and do all of those things.


Steve Bristol (11:22):
And, you know, when the dust settled, we, we lost by about 40 points. It wasn’t even close to being competitive. And I, you know, I’m destroyed, I, this is my first experience. It’s very public, you know, all, any coach knows, you know, your, your work is public. And so when you have a bad day, you know, there’s people watching. And so I’m kind of hanging my head and the athletic director came over to me and he said, you know, you actually did a pretty good job. He goes, but you make the kids nervous. You talk too much. Sometimes just let the kids play. And that idea that sometimes just let the kids play mm. Has guided, you know, I’ve done a lot of coaching since then and have had a fair amount of success and not every day was like that. But I can, I can think of specific games where I used that advice, where I realized I kids are doing a great job. They didn’t need me to keep coaching. The part of my job was to step back and let them be successful. It was about them, not about me coaching a win, and, and to tell yourself in those moments to just be quiet and just let, what you’ve been hoped would happen happen. Yeah. But I think coaches and teachers forget to recognize.


Steve Bristol (12:37):
And as a parent now, sometimes I gotta let my kids play and sometimes they’re gonna fail and fall and all of those things, but, you know, that’s part of teaching. And part of teaching is knowing when to keep your mouth closed and just let kids experience things.


Sam Demma (12:52):
I love that so much. That’s, that’s an amazing piece of advice. And have you in your role now maybe you can even talk about this as a coach or as a head of enrollment. Have you used that same advice personally with your students and have seen any massive transformations or some students that have been deeply impacted the same way your coach impacted you? And if there’s a serious story about how someone’s life has been changed, you can change their name for privacy reasons, but the reason I’m digging for it is because an educator might be listening right now. Who’s a little burnt out. And I wanna remind them that the work we do in education and coaching it has the power to transform lives. So if you have any stories that this take out to you it would be cool to hear. And so,


Steve Bristol (13:37):
And, and I think particularly as, as you say, under these circumstances, this is really hard. And the challenge for teachers under the best of circumstances is you don’t typically see the results yeah. Of your work. You know, you’ll have somebody come back 10 years later and tell you how impactful you were and things like that. And, and but in the moment there’s days where it just feels like I’m not making a dent here, you know, they’re, they’re just coming back. And they’re the same kids today that they were yesterday, despite everything I tried to do. So I think my best advice, advice to teachers is, is to remember, there’s a long game here. Yeah. That you, you, aren’t gonna change kids in a day, but being steady and being consistent and approaching your work with their best interests at heart does pay dividends. And, and part of that is you just have to trust that, that it will.


Steve Bristol (14:37):
For me personally, there, there’s been a lot of times where, you know, kids have come back and, and surprised me in, in what they’ve remembered that I said at one point, or, you know, a lot of times it’s embarrassing stuff where they’ll say, oh, I remember that time you did that. And I’d be like, yeah, those were the things I’ve tried to forget. . But I had a, a, a tremendously talented and had a really, really difficult time. And , and he, and I had sort of exchanged messages and I didn’t realize the extent of it. And he came into my office and, and began to talk to me about things where I could really tell something was very, very wrong and, and I didn’t realize it. And after he left his mom called and as a woman, I had a really good relationship with, for many years and, and said, I’m so sorry.


Steve Bristol (15:33):
I didn’t, you know, I didn’t tell you in advance, so you could be prepared. Mm. And what we found out is he, he was bipolar and they didn’t know it. And that came out and he was home from college with nothing to do. And, and I said, well, come to look, cross practice every day. And you’ll be my assistant coach, and you’ll stand next to me and you’ll learn how to coach and work with kids. And, and he came every day and, you know, he, as he’s learning to adjust to his new situation and medication and things like that, he had safe space to come to every day. Mm. And, you know, and to this day, you know, he’s the father of twins and in his, you know, probably mid thirties we still talk about that spring. You know, we’ve stayed in touch, he’s in great shape now. And he tells me, his mom still sends me a note once a year, that says, you know, you changed his life because you, you took him in when, when he was lost. And, you know, it was, to me, it was sort of an obvious thing to do. He is a great kid, you know, I love having him around. And, and, but it was at a time in his life when he needed somebody to invest a little extra in him.


Sam Demma (16:43):
I love that. That’s an amazing, it’s an amazing story. And you mentioned, you know, small actions in there somewhere. My teacher, Mike always told me, you know, small, consistent, massive changes. Absolutely. And it applies to education. It applies to mentorship with young people, and it just applies to everyday life, whether you’re trying to change something personally or something in a school or student’s life. If there’s a, that’s


Steve Bristol (17:07):
Interesting, I think one of the big to do is to sort of teach through the positive as opposed to the negative. I think we’re all very quick to point out when kids make mistakes and candidly, that’s really easy to do. You know, I, I can, I can watch a field hockey game and tell you when somebody makes a bad pass. I don’t have any idea how to teach someone to play field hockey and I can think the more we start to celebrate the positives that kids do and teach through their successes. That’s where I think we start to really generate a lot of momentum. And if we spend all our time just pointing out when they make mistakes, well, then that’s what they’re gonna hear.


Sam Demma (17:48):
Hmm. No, that’s so true. And on the topic of great advice for educators, if someone’s listening, who is maybe teaching for the first year and thinking like, what the heck did I sign up for? This is not what I was expecting. What advice would your current self have to give your past self or someone else listening?


Steve Bristol (17:58):
Boy, that’s a really good question. My when I started, I think it, it was, as I sort of said earlier, it was all very personal to me. Yeah. It was, you know, am, am I a good teacher? Am I doing this? Are, are they responding to me? It was very me centric. Mm. And I think, and you know, obviously, you know, you look at it now, it’s, you know, you have to get to know your kids and, and get to know them personally. So that when, you know, I, I talk about working in boarding schools as sort of being, you know, a surrogate parent. And, you know, when my kids come home from school and they’ve had a bad day, I know it.


Steve Bristol (18:49):
But before they’ve even opened their mouth, I can read their body. I can feel it in the air that this was not a good day. And we’re, we’re gonna have some work to do tonight. If teachers can get to that point with their kids in class, where you can kind of read their body language and know when they’re with you. And when they’re not boy, you can ha you know, now you can create an at fear where they can be comfortable, and if they’re comfortable, they’re gonna find a voice. And when they find that voice, they’ll start to engage with each other. And that’s when, you know, that’s when the magic happens and finding a way to make kids comfortable in your class as opposed to uncomfortable. And I think when I started teaching, I wanted them to be uncomfortable because I was so uncom, I, I just needed to control things, making sure they’re comfortable.


Sam Demma (19:40):
Hmm. That’s a great piece of advice. If I was teaching right now, I would say, thank you. good. That’s amazing. And if anyone’s listening and they, they’re inspired by this convers, they wanna reach out, maybe bounce some ideas around, or get some coaching advice from a former or former or current basketball coach. What would be the best way for them to reach out?


Steve Bristol (20:02):
I’d love doing that and I love, you know, as you can tell, I love talking about education and would welcome anyone that wants to reach out on anything. Along these lines, you know, you can reach me through the, the Hun school website at www.hunschool.org and under the admissions tab. There’s a, a funny picture of me in my email address. Or my email is SteveBristol@hunschool.org, and would welcome strangers, reaching out love, talking about this stuff.


Sam Demma (20:32):
Awesome. Steve, thanks so much for taking some time today to chat. It’s been a huge pleasure.


Steve Bristol (20:36):
My pleasure Sam. Thanks so much for creating the opportunity and, and sharing all of this information with, with folks. I think it’s real important today.


Sam Demma (20:44):
Cool. Thank you. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise, I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Steve Bristol

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Jade Bilodeau – Former President OSTA-AECO and Student at Western University

Jade Bilodeau – Former President OSTA-AECO and Student at Western University
About Jade Bilodeau

Jade (@JadeBilodeau3) is an undergraduate student at Western University and the First-Year Representative for the Social Science Students’ Council.  In high school, she was a student trustee and the President of the Ontario Student Trustee Association

In today’s episode, she shares what she believes educators should focus on and do to make their students feel appreciated, seen and heard! 

Connect with Jade: Facebook | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Western University

UWO Social Science Students’ Council

Ontario Student Trustee Association

Western Women in Leadership

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and other special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox you might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting. Go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today we have a different perspective. We have Jade Bilodeau coming on the podcast. She is an undergraduate student at Western university and a first year representative of the social science students council. Last year, she was a student trustee and the President of the Ontario Student Trustee Association.


Sam Demma (01:03):

And she was responsible for bringing dozens of different initiatives and policies to the government of Ontario that students were behind that students wanted to have approved. And she did a phenomenal job. I was actually supposed to speak at one of their conferences right before COVID hit. Hopefully I’ll have a chance to speak this may instead. She’s now moved on from the association and now is a full-time student at Western, and I thought, wouldn’t it be cool to bring her on and talk about what she thinks is important for a teacher to do or an educator to do to help young people. And she shares so much awesome ideas and advice on today’s episode. So I hope you really enjoy it without further ado. Here’s Jade. Jade, thank you so much for coming onto the High Performing Educator podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you. I know things have been so weird since we last spoke back in may. You’ve been still pushing still leading. I know you’ve done work now with Harvard. You’re doing some, some stuff with mental health now, as well. I’m curious to know what inspired you to be become the student leader that you have today and actually to get involved and worked, that impacts other young people with OSTA-AECO, which is done for you now. But you move on to next steps.


Jade Bilodeau (02:24):

Yeah, so essentially my journey kind of began in high school with student leadership. And one of the main reasons that I began down that route and down that journey was because of how inspired and motivated I was by the students around me. I’ve always believed that age should not define what a person is capable of doing in their life or what the I can accomplish at that time. And so that’s kind of what inspired me to become a student leader and to be able to advocate for people who were still my own age, but who also had such an important thing to say.


Sam Demma (02:55):

Cool, did you have any educators, teachers, or older influences in your life that inspired you and maybe mentored you or motivated you to take this path?


Jade Bilodeau (03:05):

Absolutely. There were so many people in my high school and community who were my biggest mentors specifically my guidance counselor at school. My board of director, cuz I was a student trustee of the Niagara Catholic district school board. And there are just so many different coaches and teachers that I’ve had. And even to this day, I still keep in touch with them. And I still ask them so many questions because as much as age can’t determine, can’t define what you can do. It’s definitely helpful to have some wisdom and so going to those people and those mentors is definitely helpful.


Sam Demma (03:37):

Cool. If you had to break it down, what do you think they did that was so impactful for you? Was it their passion when they spoke to you? Was it their experience? Like if a teacher is listening to this right now, thinking how do I impact my students the same way your mentors did for you? Like what are those characteristics that can make a huge difference in a student’s life?


Jade Bilodeau (03:57):

Yeah, for me, it was 100% their passion and their drive to wanna see their students succeed for the most part. When I had conversations with my mentors and I asked them questions they would answer with another question. And so essentially it wasn’t necessarily them giving me the steps into telling me this is the roadmap to becoming a student leader or to doing what you wanted to do. It was more of you were capable of doing it and kind of motivating me to continue to do what I loved to do.


Sam Demma (04:26):

Do you remember, and this is like a question leading from what you just said. Do you remember any of those questions that were like, whoa, this is so fitting. Like this really helped me push through something. Cause I think like the information we always seek is in, so else’s mind and the ability for us to get that information is directly tied to our ability to ask a great question. And I think what you just mentioned is so important asking great questions is so, so important for not only coaching, but for, you know, your own progress in life. And I’m just curious, you may, you may not, you could totally say no some of your crazy, but if you do remember, please let me know.


Jade Bilodeau (05:03):

For sure. I remember one time it was during university applications and I was sitting in my guidance counselor’s room her office and I asked a question about one of the application essay questions. And I said, how should I interpret this? Like, what should I do about this? How should I answer it? And she basically told me, she said, how do you see it in your own life? Like relate it back and connect it to yourself. So she was kind of just, none of her responses were actually answers that I was looking for. But rather her question kind of like led me to reflect deeper and to actually think about how the things that I’ve done can relate to what I was trying to accomplish in the future.


Sam Demma (05:39):

Hmm. I love that. And I it’s cool. Cause my, one of my mentor does the same thing with me and he was telling me earlier, usually the answer is a part of the problem and you don’t actually have to absolutely reinvent it. You have to just ask enough questions to figure it out and sure. You ended your role as the president of the OSTA-AECO back in June, July. Was it around there that you guys?


Jade Bilodeau (06:00):

Yeah, my term officially ended on August 1st. Okay. so it did go through part of the summer. But those two years, as part of the Ontario student trustees association were so pivotable and my student leadership journey, I’m so grateful for the experience that I got there. And funny enough, there were even mentors that I would consider my same age. And there were students part of the, a Ontario student trustee association that I would consider mentors as well. And they were people, people my age or younger.


Sam Demma (06:28):

Awesome. You ended your term when COVID was just unfolding. And so you got a, you got a little piece of the pie in terms of the pick sure. Of what things were shaping up to look like for the coming year. What were some of those challenges that you were facing towards the end of your term with COVID and trying to run this huge organization?


Jade Bilodeau (06:47):

Yeah. There were so many barriers and challenges. Seeing kind of the barriers that school boards were facing in terms of trying to create a plan for September was huge. But then more than that, it was essentially the biggest barrier that we faced was how can we support students during this time? Because definitely one of the biggest challenges that I’ve personally faced, and I know that students across Ontario and across the world are facing right now is adapting to this new learning style and this new environment of learning. And so during that time, and at the end of the year, when everything was unfolding, it was essentially what can we do to make sure that students are in the best position going forward. And currently, cause obviously there are so many barriers in the education system and then adding a pandemic, a global pandemic on top of that, doesn’t make it easy. So it was definitely just a matter of what resources and what supports can we try to provide to students.


Sam Demma (07:37):

And I know during the pandemic, when it was just unfolding, you guys still pushed forward and tried to do virtual events where you could, do you have any tips on engaging young people virtually? I know teachers it’s, it’s a struggle, the struggle that you mentioned earlier about dealing with the pandemic and all the other barriers, it applies right now to schools and teachers as well. You know, if you were a student in classroom and you had to learn virtually what you are with university, what would you want to tell your teacher to do, to make it a better experience?


Jade Bilodeau (08:07):

I would say one of the biggest things, especially being around the third week into post-secondary online and even last year planning some of those virtual kind of provincial meetings. One of the biggest things was trying to be creative in terms of having synchronous and dedicated time to social interactions online and so for example, whether that’s kind of matching people up and pairing them for coffee chats, or it’s kind of just interacting increasing that user friendly techno technological tools, that was a big thing, is finding a platform that could then integrate a bunch of different kind of softwares and programs that we could use. It, honestly, for teachers, I would say in the classroom, it can be as easy as taking a poll halfway through class. Does this make sense to everyone or things like that? Just something to keep people engaged cuz staring at a computer screen all day is definitely not an easy task.


Sam Demma (08:56):

Yeah, no, it’s definitely weird. And as an educator, people that maybe just started in education are getting thrown into this job thinking, oh my gosh, this stuff is crazy. Like I didn’t sign up for this. I signed up for teaching. This is like 10 jobs in one. I’m not ready for this. But it in education, we also have the opportunity to impact so many young people. And although you weren’t a formal teacher, you were, you know, at the head of an organization that was impacting thousands of young people’s lives. I’m curious to know if you have a story you can share about the work that you did at OSTA-AECO?


Sam Demma (09:37):

If you could share like a story where they work, you guys did impacted a young person just to remind educators that the work that they’re doing is so important right now. And you can change the student’s name if you’d like to keep it private. Or if they’re like someone who you think would love to have their name shared, you can go for it.


Jade Bilodeau (09:56):

I would say ironically enough, one of the biggest things that we had done in my term last year as a part of it was actually the e-learning survey which was data from the previous academic year. And so the results from that survey kind of showed that students are in the same mind frame as student, as teachers right now, in terms of wanting e-learning isn’t necessarily what students want at this time. The results of our survey basically showed that 96% of students were against mandated e-learning cuz that was the topic that was talked about. And so obviously it’s not necessarily an optional thing right now because of the safety of communities in the world. And so the, I guess thing that I could say to teachers right now is that it’s a learning experience for both students and teachers and that learn and grow together as a class because obviously it’s gonna be both parties, students and teachers learning specifically something that kind of a story that we did last year was we kind of had this dialogue with student trustees across the province about share something motivational or inspiring that one of your teachers did during COVID.


Jade Bilodeau (11:07):

And that was kind of just to keep things hopeful and to remind students that even though during this time, teachers are still trying their hardest and that’s ultimately students will recognize that when teachers are trying their best to provide the best educational experience.


Sam Demma (11:20):

Do you remember any of those stories? Just curious, like, I don’t know if you do maybe some crazy ones?


Jade Bilodeau (11:24):

Yeah. yeah. There was actually quite a few awesome ones, especially for graduating students. There were some really awesome things that teachers had done specifically, actually in my school board and in my high school actually the teachers had compiled in a van and had driven around to all of the graduating class of 2020 and had honked and kind of like celebrated balloons and kind of like the whole 10 yards. And it was kind of just a way to say, we appreciate your four years at high school. Like we recognize that you’re graduating. It was just a good experience, even though it couldn’t be in person.


Sam Demma (11:59):

And that could also be applied to a birthday for anyone listening, who doesn’t have a graduating class. Imagine if you drove to everyone’s house on their birthday and gave them, you know, a piece of cake or Uber eats them a cake from Baskin Robbins or something crazy. That’s absolutely no shows that you care a little bit more. Cool. And what’s next for you? I mean, you’ve done so much in education already. I know you’re still leading in space as a young person. What are you working on now and what’s coming up?


Jade Bilodeau (12:24):

Yeah, so currently I’m a first year student at Western university. I’m an international relations. And so I’ve just been, I’ve just been looking for student leadership opportunities in post-secondary cool. And so I’m planning on joining my residence, council, social science faculty, student council. I just joined the Western women in leadership club. And so just finding ways to still get involved in meet like-minded people, because that was one of the best things that I ever did in high school was get involved to meet people who are similar.


Sam Demma (12:55):

Nice. And if a teacher wants to reach out and get a younger person’s perspective on anything related to student engagement, student leadership, doing activities for their kids where can they reach out to you? What’s the best way to get in touch?


Jade Bilodeau (13:08):

I would say the first place is definitely their students in terms of their classes, aside from that their student leadership teams at their high schools. And then even if they wanna go further than that, their student trustees at their school boards are always such a great resource. I know I loved when educators came to me and asked me questions. And then even beyond that, the Ontario student trustees association, or just groups of students that are similar, where they’re all kind of striving to represent that student voice. But essentially just having and engaging students in a conversation, whether that’s the person who sits in the front row of the class or the person who sits in the back row, whatever it is, just engaging students in conversation in general.


Sam Demma (13:47):

Love that and say an educators listening to this podcast right now and they’re thinking to themselves Jade’s awesome. And she might have some cool perspectives that, that she can share. Is there a way that they can actually get in touch with you personally to bounce some ideas around or have a conversation?


Jade Bilodeau (14:01):

Yeah, absolutely. You can reach out to me on Facebook. That’s usually where a lot of educators do and it’s Jade Bilodeau. And other than that through the Ontario Student Trustees Association, there’s lots of, kind of different alumni networks through there.


Sam Demma (14:17):

Awesome, Jade, thanks so much for taking some time to chat and sharing a little bit of your wisdom and your story. I really appreciate it.


Jade Bilodeau (14:23):

Thank you so much for having me.


Sam Demma (14:25):

And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating. You so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jade Bilodeau

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Nicholas McCowan – Lenovo’s Visionary Teachers Award Recipient

Nicholas McCowan – Lenovo’s Visionary Teachers Award Recipient
About Nicholas McCowan

Nicholas McCowan (@NJMcCowan) teaches at St. Joan of Arc Academy in the Toronto Catholic District School Board and teaches Science, Leadership and Student Success.

In 2019, Nicholas was the winner of Lenovo‘s prestigious Visionary Teacher’s Award which earned him a set of VR headsets for his classroom. His submission focused on the socioeconomic limitations students face, along with the challenges associated with assimilating to a new country, as many of his students were newcomers.

Connect with Nicholas: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joan of Arc Academy

Visionary Teacher’s Award

Teach Me Toolbox

Teachers Meet Teachers

Bubba Gaeddert – CEO and Founder of the Varsity eSports Foundation

Google Expeditions

Minecraft Education

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox, you might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting. Go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma today’s guest is Nick McCowan. Nicholas is a teacher at St. John Arc Academy in the Toronto Catholic District School Board. He teaches science leadership and student success, and he is also a tech wizard. He helped an entire classroom at John Vanet experience visiting the national space station and traveling through exotic places throughout the world, using the Lenovo virtual reality classroom set without even leaving the classroom.


Sam Demma (01:11):

St. Joan of Arc Catholic Academy became the first school in the TCDSB to use this virtual reality kit. After today’s guest, Nick won an essay contest put on by the big tech giant Lenovo, and he believes that using technology can empower students who are new to the country and who may face social stigma. As a result, he is a phenomenal educator, phenomenal human being. He also runs something called Teach Me Toolbox, which is an Instagram page and a platform that shares tips that you can add to your teacher toolbox. He does so much to empower and educate and inspire his students. He is also a world experiencer. He loves traveling and he’s super passionate about the ocean. Anyways, without further ado, let’s get to the interview with Nick. I hope you enjoy it. And I will see you on the other side, Nick, welcome to the High Performing Educators podcast. It’s a huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by sharing with our audience who you are and how you got into the work you do in education now?


Nicholas McCowan (02:17):

Okay. Thanks for having me on Sam. It’s a pleasure to be here. So my name’s Nick McCowan. I taught with the Toronto Catholic District School Board for this is now my 10th year nine years at the school that I’m at. Generally I teach science and leadership and student success. So I wear a couple hats at the school. As a lot of us tend to do these days. I got into this work, I guess this story goes all the way back to high school. I had one particular teacher as I think a lot of educators can, can relate with this. They all had that one teacher that inspired them. George Robel at Cardinal Newman in a grade 12 history class. What he did was he, he brought in his, his dad just randomly and this, like, he sort of like crunched over old man walked in, didn’t say a word rolled up his sleeve and showed everybody the number tattoo on his forearm. And he had been a prisoner or in one of the concentration camps during world war II. And that experience just really like that got to me because I think, you know, that was the aha moment. Like what was in the textbook was real. And I think when that, for me, that experience was where I wanted to, to do that. I wanted to give people that experience. So that was sort of the main driver from me amongst a lot of other influential experiences as I went through my educational career myself.


Sam Demma (03:45):

That’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It’s so cool because I have that teacher for me too, and I don’t do, I mean, I’m not working in formal education as a teacher, but I’m, and I’m, I’m aspiring to impact students in, in different ways and doing so virtual right now. What other character traits did your teacher have, you know, in your, in your, in your history class that really made an impact on you? Cause I’m sure along with bringing in his father, there was other things he did for you that made his class your most memorable class?


Nicholas McCowan (04:15):

I think he was available, you know, he, he wasn’t just a teacher. He, he, he made himself readily available in the class and outside the class and, and he talked to us, not at us. And I think that that’s a valuable distinction that a lot of teachers, sometimes when you like in different stages of your career, or even just day to day, we we’ve something happened at home and we forget to talk to the students mm-hmm instead of at them. And I think that, you know, especially now given all the restrictions we’re going through and the challenges we’re going through, it’s an important lesson to, to remember. And Robo was so good with that. I mean, he would pull you out of class when he knew you were having a bad day and ask you what was going on. He would sort of just E even down the hallway, kind of engage you with something that you mentioned in class, which empowered us. Right? Mm-hmm he was listening to what we were saying. So I think that that was sort of the most valuable thing that he offered us as well, was just the fact that he listened and, and was genuine with us on a, a day to day basis.


Sam Demma (05:18):

No, that’s awesome. And it’s funny when I think about Rob and my teacher, Mr. Loud foot, very similar. He tried to meet each student where they were at, meaning he would take his overarching lesson and try and apply it to all of our lives individually. So one kid loved fashion. He would talk about the ability to make an impact on the world. Through fashion. One of us loved sports. He would talk about the importance of using the platform you build responsibly to make a difference. And what’s crazy is that their, their preaching was backed by life experience and action. So like my teacher told us small actions make a massive change, go in the community and try something. And I didn’t know it, but he, he, for 20 years along with other colleagues of the school were organizing the food drive. And when he, when he retired from the school board after 20 something years or 30 something years, they had, they had donated over a million pounds of food. And I didn’t know that. And he did that. And I’m sure your teacher the same way, you know, showed interest in all of you guys and behind the scenes was like very calculated and, and very intentional about doing so how do we, how do we be intentional and make students feel seen and heard in this virtual world you know, with all the challenges that are being faced?


Nicholas McCowan (06:39):

I, I think the important thing is to remember that as educators, like we really have that role of a hero, right? I, I think that you can’t underestimate how much the kids are watching and how much they’re listening. And even if we can’t observe it as readily as we can, and during like regular teaching and having the students in front of us, we have to remember that they’re still listening and they’re still observing everything you do. So, and it’s even more important. And I mean, we’re constantly bombarded by warnings from our school boards, like, Hey, you know, dress the right way, have the background the right way, have, you know, have all, all your ducks in a row so that you can’t get in trouble. And, and the phrasing of that has kind of made people paranoid. So we have to under like still address those kids and be impactful from behind a screen, which has like been.


Nicholas McCowan (07:34):

I don’t know, we’ve had a whole new set of challenges given to us, and we’ve really had to adapt so quickly. So I guess some of the ways that we’ve done it is by using some of the amazing tools that are available. I, myself am a pretty tech savvy guy. So we’ve I’ve been doing this for a long time. A couple years ago, 2019 Lenovo Canada gave me the visionary teacher of the year award for some of the work we we’ve been doing with our VR project. At school, we, we were doing the virtual classroom two, three years ago using VR helmets to give students student voice at the particular school that I’m at, we’ve got a lot of new Canadians and allowing them to use tools like Google expedition which is a fantastic tool that we can get more into if you’d like.


Nicholas McCowan (08:25):

But essentially it’s one of the VR programs that you can go to anywhere in the world, see different environments. And you know, like for a kid, who’s just come from the Philippines who doesn’t have a handle on the language who doesn’t know the environment he’s coming, and he doesn’t have any friends in the class throw that helmet on him and show him his street in Manila, that kind of power from that experience is huge. And that just, that opens up so many things because now kids in the class can be like, Hey, I lived right around the corner from there. And that gives him the power to say, I now have the commonality with the kids in my class. So those kind of tools that we’re, we’re dealing with, you know, we are restricted because we can’t put the helmet on them, but we still have the ability to use similar tools from behind the screen. And it’s important to keep digging and not make it full. Do you know, like we, we really can’t just send an email like here, do questions one to 10, you gotta make it as engaging and interactive as possible. And that’s when you really grab the student’s attention.


Sam Demma (09:26):

Where did the, where did the curiosity come from for you to develop your tech skills and dive deep into to these?


Nicholas McCowan (09:39):

I would say experiential learning opportunities is, is it bad to blame Sega Genesis or like, or PS, you know, PS one through four, you know, like I think actually a lot of it came from gaming, man. I think you know, as much as a lot of parents ride the kids for gaming, I think more and more, those are the kids that are tech savvy that are, are winners when it comes to this online engagement. And I’ve seen a lot of kids become wizards with using some of the tech tools that are out there. They’re so, so better versed at it than we are. And I think that that comes from that, that kind of similar back that, that gave me that that love for it. It was no nobody in particular, but I, I guess I’ve always really taken to it. I mean, being at UofT and being at Trent University and at Ottawa doing all the degrees that I’d done, you, you, you’re doing labs, you get these opportunities to play with electron microscopes. And I mean, we’re all kids at high, right? So when you get these tools, like why not engage fully? And I love offering that opportunity to the students.


Sam Demma (10:43):

I just recently on the high performing student podcast interviewed a director of something called the, the Varsity eSports foundation and his name’s Bubba. And he talks about the difference between mean talks about the difference between gaming and eSports and the stem advantages that come along with eSports. And I’m curious to know your personal opinion on that. Should educators listening, start being more open minded to the possibility of using games to build critical thinking teamwork and even, you know, overcoming challenges as a team?


Nicholas McCowan (11:18):

Absolutely. I mean what better platform than to use one that students are already familiar with? There’s no need to like teach them the skillset to use the tech, you know, so they’re already familiar with it. So they hop in running. I use a a game called no man sky for PS4. It’s not an amazing game, but allows students to explore sort of it it’s engages them with space exploration, which helps with my earth and space science class at the 12 U level. So it’s a nice little hook activity for them. And then as soon as they have that, you can start adding to programs like sky safari pro, which is a fantastic sort of telescope tool. And I think that for students, as soon as you, you pull out those, those tools, they’re already engaged as it is. So they, they love that kind of thing big time and, and hop in with both be.


Sam Demma (12:13):

That’s awesome. And for a teacher who’s listening and thinks this is awesome and wants to give it a shot, but is so overwhelmed by the idea of this technology. What is the first small step they can take to dabble their feet in the water and give some of these things a small try?


Nicholas McCowan (12:31):

I think the best thing to do is to ask the students, ask the students, to show them what they think is best and do a quick little poll. The kids are, well, I should say students because, I mean, I got kids that are up to 18 but they’re watching the videos on like Twitch and, and watching all those streams, right, where ki people are playing the games. So a, a student would readily have, you know, a whole handful of videos that a teacher can use to, to sort of learn the basics and, and, and watch the gameplay and see whether it’s valuable for the lesson they had in mind. So I would start there with that. But a lot of the S resources that were being given by our particular board, we’ve got a great 21st century learning team that is all about a listen.


Nicholas McCowan (13:18):

If you guys have some sort of tech tool that you wanna use, go for it. We, I mean, we even got a Minecraft license so that we can use Minecraft for some of the for some of the tools in elementary. And it’s, it’s going from math to English all the way over to history. I mean, the, it, it’s pretty amazing. I think a, another, one of the valuable tools that we were talking about earlier, Google expedition, one of the things that they can do with that. And I know like for an English teacher, the chance to use a lot of tech is, is not always there. It, it tends to be more like a, a stem teacher that has the availability. One of the experiences students can have is, is being the ghost of Macbeth in the play and watching the play virtually from the stage. So, I mean, you can actually experience Shakespeare, which is the way it’s supposed to be, right? So you have students that are, are so accustomed to just opening up that small little book and reading along in class. Now you can actually live the experience, play on YouTube VR or on on this like Google expedition platform. So really the, the learning for the teacher is not that onerous. So it’s actually pretty straightforward and there’s lots of great tutorials online.


Sam Demma (14:34):

So what you’re saying essentially is teachers can take their kids on a class trip without leaving or going on a bus.


Nicholas McCowan (14:44):

Well, it’s, it’s cost effective. I’ll tell you that. We, we we’re we do that all the time in my environmental or biology classes, earth and space. I mean, talk about bringing the experiential learning to the classroom, because I mean, another one of the hats I wear, I work Fori academy. And we take students down to Belize and Costa Rica for the summer. And I mean, the very first day in class, we, it in class is a loose term because we actually take a, a skiff out like to the coral reef. And we jump into the coral reef and dive with sharks and, and Ray, and actually engage in discussions about biodiversity. And there is no better teacher, but obviously that’s an experience only a few can afford. So these VR helmets and, and this kind of technology allows that integration into the learning and when it comes for free, I mean, it’s, it’s a win-win situation, right?


Nicholas McCowan (15:41):

Like the kids are all in as soon as they can do that. Another interesting facet of that technology is, I mean, you can, some of the AR the augmented reality stuff that they can do too, is I can now put a shark in the middle of the classroom virtually via an iPad. So I can have a camera showing the class input, the shark, and we can dissect it like layer by layer, you know? And, and I think that that kind of experience for the students is, I mean, you can’t touch it, right? Yeah.


Sam Demma (16:09):

You can even do that in real classroom, unless you were thinking about it, you know, at least virtually, maybe more teachers are open to the idea of giving this a try now. That’s so cool. And what’s the difference between virtual reality and augmented reality in a very layman’s terms.


Nicholas McCowan (16:26):

Okay. Quick virtual reality will be a full immersive 3d experience. Okay. so if you want to go down the backbone of a DNA strand and look at all the different nucle or the nucleic acids, as you go down in the phosphate backbone, you can actually engage and manipulate the environment. Whereas augmented reality will be a 3d image that you can insert your, your camera’s ex view. So if you take a picture in a hallway or you have students sort of holding up a mitochondria or whatever it is they’re looking at it it’s, it’s something that they can actually manipulate in, in the virtual world, so they can spin it around with their hand. They can actually touch certain parts and information can, can pop up. So it’s a full, fully engageable learning tool that’s in that virtual world. So AR is that 3d image and VR is that fully immersive experience.


Sam Demma (17:30):

Okay, awesome. This is really, really interesting, and I’m sure there’s gonna be some and teachers who are very curious to learn more and hear more, especially from you. And we’ll, we’ll ask you to share some contact information at the end, but I wanna know in all the years you’ve been teaching, you’ve learned lots. You’ve obviously gained a lot of wisdom. If there’s an educator listening who is just getting into this, or they feel like they’re starting from the ground up, because it’s so changed and different this year what pieces of advice could you give your younger self or that new educator based on what you know now?


Nicholas McCowan (18:06):

I think the, the first thing, like when you, when you, we all start our careers, we, we really want to be that teacher, the one who students like really, they love our classes. They, they want to engage in all our lessons and we want to be the superhero that, that we all sort of start out as. And I think that we, we burn ourselves out so quickly at the beginning because we’re trying to be perfect. Mm-Hmm . And I think that the, the important message is that there is zero need to be perfect at the beginning of your career. We were all there and we all had to start building those courses and, and from scratch. And, you know, I think that not having it done the best way the first time, give yourself a break and don’t take it home with you.


Nicholas McCowan (18:52):

We are notorious overthinkers and teachers work like beyond the hours of the classroom. And I think that, you know, the, the mental stresses of, of that kid who didn’t eat in your class that day, and you worry about what’s going on at home, you, you still want to have that on the back burner, but don’t stay up till two in the morning overthinking how you’re gonna solve that problem, because it’s a group effort. And I think if you keep home and the student, most importantly, I think that that’s where those solutions start to come. So don’t kill yourself, trying to do everything. You know, I think where we’re sort of forced into this business and, and teachers were in the business of knowing so don’t kill yourself if you miss the, if you miss an answer on the board, be open about admitting that, hang on.


Nicholas McCowan (19:43):

I don’t know. And let me look it up for you and let’s learn together. Because each semester you got 30 new people in front of you, and, and you’ve got that times, you know, however many courses you’re teaching. And even if you taught it the same way, and it was successful for, you know, eight straight semesters, maybe these 30 need a brand new take on things. So be open to the new buzzword that we keep getting be flexible. So, you know, like, so be flexible in your own pedagogy and, and in your own lesson planning and curriculum delivery, because it’s really important to know that being perfect. Isn’t the, the be all and end all when you’re delivering curriculum. It’s, it’s good to have that idea in your head.


Sam Demma (20:28):

I love that. One of the pieces of advice I always tell students to is don’t, you know, don’t be afraid or shy away from asking for help. And I think right now it applies to educators more than ever. And there’s this one story called the Oracle of Delphy and it’s a story. It’s an ancient philosophy story about Socrates and an Oracle telling him you’re the wisest person in the land. And he says, no, I’m not. And, and so he goes around to talk to all the other philosophers and asks them, what do you know about life? And they all give him these, these definite answers. And at the end of all of his journey, he realizes, wow, think this Oracle might be right, cuz I’m the only one out of all the philosophers who said, you know, I know that I know nothing, and that’s why I continuously learn. I think educators are the perfect example of that because like by nature, you’re perpetual learners. Like you, you never stop learning. And right now is a chance to just learn a ton more and almost take the role of the student and the teacher, which I think is awesome and presents a cool opportunity. And if, if someone listening wants to be a perpetual learner and dive more into VR and technology and maybe have a conversation with you, what would be the best way for them to reach out and do so?


Nicholas McCowan (21:43):

I think right off the bat, I mean, email is a quick way to get in touch with me. Anyone who wants to ask any questions about what we’ve talked about?


Nicholas McCowan (21:56):

Well also I’m part of two other Instagram initiatives where I’m part of a group called @teachersmeetteachers. It’s not a dating site, it’s for for teachers to share resources and ideas and I’m it’s, it’s given me so many outlets to either share some amazing resources that I’ve found or engage in conversation with teachers or experiencing the same challenges. So give them a follow and coming up right now me and another teacher of mine, we’re starting up a new page @teachmetoolbox. And we’re gonna be putting up sort of valuable resources that will really help you get through the COVID times right now. So give those two a follow if you can.


Sam Demma (22:52):

Awesome. Perfect. Nick, do me one more favor and repeat your email one time and cut out a little bit.


Nicholas McCowan (22:55):

Sorry. Yeah. It’s nicholas.mccowan@tcdsb.org.


Sam Demma (23:10):

Nick, It’s been a pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on and maybe I’ll see you in person VR pretty soon.


Nicholas McCowan (23:15):

Let’s hope, man. Let’s hope, man.


Sam Demma (23:18):

Yeah, you’re welcome. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this call content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.