Teaching Tips

Al Mclean – Principal at Timmins High & Vocational School

About Al Mclean

Al Mclean has been an educator for 25 years and is currently the Principal at Timmins High & Vocational School (TH & VS). Al taught in a small community high school for 6 years, in K-6 school for two years and a Grade 7/8 school for four years. Before becoming Principal, Al was the Vice Principal at two high schools in Timmins for 11 years. Outside of the classroom Al enjoys hiking, backpacking, squash, hockey and hunting.

Al has been married for 17 years with two children. His favourite quote is: “The road we travel is equal in importance to the destination we seek. There are no shortcuts.” – Murray Sinclair (former Senator and chair of Truth and Reconciliation Commission)

Connect with Al: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

District School Board Ontario North East

Timmins High & Vocational School

National Day for Truth and Reconciliation – Canada.ca

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Al welcome to the high performing educator. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here this morning. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about why you’re passionate about the work you do?

Al Mclean (00:11):
Okay. So first off I’m Al I work with district school board Ontario Northeast. I am currently located in Tim’s Ontario. We’re about eight hours north of Toronto. So I’ve been working with the school board for 25 years now six as a teacher, 19 as an administrator principal at all levels, of the system from K to 12. I’ve also been VP at this school, particularly for seven years. And this is my third go-round at this school. And I’m back for my first time as principal for the last two. But I think what kind of gets me very excited is that it’s, it’s always changing and you get to see the best in kids. You get them as they come in in grade nine and you get to see them leave in grade 12. And the changes that they exhibit in four years is amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed my time at the elementary levels as well just to see the changes there, but it’s just so exciting to be with the kids and the energy that they often provide is fantastic for guys like me as I get a little older in my career.

Sam Demma (01:26):
That’s awesome. Would your school be located close to O Gorman? I know it’s different boards, but is that in the same area in Tim’s are very far away.

Al Mclean (01:35):
Yeah, we’re, we’re actually fairly close. So we’re in like a little educational hub. So not only do we have at other high school from Urman from our, our English Catholic, but right. We’re actually right beside a French Catholic high school as well. Nice. And across the road from us is our grade seven, eight feeder school. And around the corner is the French Catholic school, seven, eight feeder school. So it’s always a busy place. And my colleagues at all those buildings, I know very well and you’re fantastic people and but that’s basically where we are.

Sam Demma (02:08):
That’s awesome. And what, what got you into education when you think back to your own career journey and search, did you know you wanted to be in education and how did you land here?

Al Mclean (02:20):
Well, mine actually, I was that typical when I was in school at, we had the OAC year, the grade 13 year. Yep. So I was wandering around and basically my guidance counselor said, look, you have two days to decide what you’re doing and where you’re applying to. And, and so I was fortunate. I had two teachers and and I’ll start with probably the second greatest influence in my teaching career is a guy named Bob. And he was came to me. I came to my stool in my grade 12 year and was a PHY ed teacher. And and so I remember two particular incidents with him, but one that really stood out and why I wanted to be a teacher is that he, he came to watch a basketball game. So he had taught me in PHY ed.

Al Mclean (03:06):
He knew we were playing basketball and he came to watch a switch was surprising, cuz we weren’t a good team at all. I grew up in, in bury Ontario and there were much better high schools at basketball than us. And so Bob was in the stands. We lost by I think, 48 points. And I remember going in a class the next day and Bob pulled me aside and we said, you know, good game last night. And I kind of chuckled and said, well, Hey, we lost. Right. And he said, but, but your effort didn’t change. Right? Your effort from start to finish down by two, down by 48, never changed. And he said, that’s gonna serve you well in your future life. And at this time he didn’t know kind of what I was thinking of doing. So I really appreciated that.

Al Mclean (03:51):
And then I went the next day to another gentleman by the name of Brian and Brian was my English teacher for a couple years. And Brian was ahead of the curve. So back in 1992, when I graduated, you know, there’s no computers there’s no internet. There’s nothing like that. Right? Yeah. So Brian just had this creative way of teaching us and letting us do stuff. So for example, he said I want you to Chronicle you every year from zero to 18 and you decide how you want to present it to me. So you can imagine kids are doing all sorts of different things. So I, I met with him and I said, look, I’m going into teaching. And you’re a big reason why, like the last two years with you seeing what you do with kids. And, and he really helped me come outta my shell in terms of taking risks, taking chances.

Al Mclean (04:44):
Right. And, and he gave me that confidence. So I said, I’m going in because of you primarily. And I, something he always said to me and I can’t credit him for, for actually coming up with this. Cause I don’t know. But he said to me, he said, look, when you get into a teaching career, he says, I, I’m very thankful you’re going in. I think you’re gonna do a great job, but always remember this, just try and seek to change the life of one kid per semester or change the course of a life. And he said over 30 year career, two semesters that 60 kids, what other profession, other than medical or emergency services can say that if, if you use that as your guide, you’ll do very well in life. And I’ve always taken that to heart. And, and I’ve tried to tell other teachers that along my way because it’s been very true for me.

Al Mclean (05:34):
Right? And, and one of the good things sadly Brian passed away years a few years after his retirement, but I’ve did get the chance to tell him his impact and everything. And so a couple years ago, about six, seven years ago, I get this random email from a secretary that says this, this girl’s trying to reach out to our school. She remembers this teacher and I’m not sure, but you were here at the time. You might remember. So I said, well, it’s me give her my email. And I remember the student, I had taught her and she she had a, a serious incident mentally and needed some guidance. And I was just there, you know, just listening. Yeah. And, and she wrote this email to me, that basically said, because you listened because you did this you know, I now had the confidence to seek out mental health.

Al Mclean (06:29):
And I am now working for Canadian mental health. I’m an advocate. And I use you as an example all the time. Wow. And you know, those are, are some of the things that it obviously brings a huge smile to my face and that’s why we do, and I do what I do. But it’s just nice to hear that. And you don’t always hear it, you know, a year later or two years later. So it’s, it’s gratifying. It it’s, it obviously makes us feel very good when we do get those things. But even just little things when you see a kid change in four years, and whether you had a little hand in that as an administrator or teacher, it just feels good. And, and I think that’s why we all do what we do in this profession.

Sam Demma (07:11):
I loved what you mentioned about the goal or the intention of changing the course of one student’s life per semester of, of our 30 year career Tupac Shakur, who is a poet he’s passed away now, but he would always say, I might not inspire the kid or change the life of the kid, change the life of a kid, but I will spark the mind of somebody who will, and I think in education, it, it creates such a ripple effect. You have a positive impact on, or change the course of the life of one student. They might change the course of the life of another 10. And it just can, it continually ripples, which is really awesome. And like you mentioned, sometimes you don’t hear the stories. Sometimes you plant the seed and it gets watered 20 years later. I but it doesn’t lessen the impact in any way, shape or form. No. So your journey, so, so tell me a little bit more about that journey itself. So you made the decision, you were gonna get into it because of these two teachers. And then what did that journey look like?

Al Mclean (08:14):
So it after university I applied to a job in a small north remote community, about 45 minutes north of here called Erica falls. And I had a, like I said, I grew up in Sudbury. I went to school in thunder bay, Ontario at Lakehead university. Nice. So the north was always something that attracted me and, and I love the lifestyle of it. So I got this job in this small remote community. And then it was about 5,000 people that lived there. So as a new teacher, when I walked in there, it was, everybody knew you like, you were the new kid, you were the new person in town. I stuck out like a sore thumb, right? Like you’d walk into a place and people would be like, you didn’t grow up here, you know, type of thing. So it, it really taught me teaching in there.

Al Mclean (09:02):
It, it was great. I met some wonderful students that have now actually are teachers in my school. Cool. And, and just some other wonderful kids that have become friends along the way through a variety of different means. But it was really interesting because when you teach in a small community and you know, our small, Northern remote communities, even up the coast that would, would do this too. It’s. Everybody has like, feels like it’s, it’s a piece of you, right? Like they just feel like they see you at school. They see you in the community know, they might see me at the gym and, and it’s this expectation that you’re available to them. And, and I really appreciated that because when I grew up in Subbury sometimes in some classes you feel my high school was 1200 kids. You feel like a number going through.

Al Mclean (09:50):
Right. But the kid that sees me at the gym in Erica falls that comes back and says, Hey, you know, I saw you at the gym. What were you working on? Arms legs, back chest. Like, what were you doing? You know, it’s, it took on a different idea for them. And it just this idea that they could relate to you, but at the same time, you know, keep that professional student distance. But I just found, it was a way in and a way for me to get to know them. So when I teach them, it doesn’t become like some of the teachers I had where you’re in there for an hour and 20 minutes. And you leave. Yeah. You know, some kids really appreciated that, you know, we knew them, I knew their parents. Let’s say I got to know some of their parents. So it’s just that small community feel.

Al Mclean (10:33):
And it, it really impacted me in terms of ING every day to, to really reach out to kids. Right. So in the role I play as an administrator whether it’s vice principal or principal here, you know, there’s 620 kids here right now. And, you know, the pandemic is one thing because of mass. But when I was here as a VP, I really tried to reach out to the kids that I see in the office. So that a kid walking through this building could say, you know, what, the principal or the vice principal talked to me today, you know? And, and, and to me, that’s what the small community brought that, that was part of my biggest learning of the journey. Was that always remember that, you know, whether Al McClain was doing well in school or not, he needed somebody to say, Hey, how’s your day today? Mm. You know, how was that basketball game last night? And, and there’s always those kids that may not get that. And we forget that sometimes that, you know, that there are kids that we think go along okay. In schools, but always reach out to them because they need that.

Sam Demma (11:37):
A hundred percent. And back to the good game comment that one of your mentors, men, you know, said to you staying motivated and showing up, despite the fact that you’re down 48 points yeah. Is a quality that’s important for all human beings. I would argue that that situation is replicated in education right now with all educators. Absolutely. It feels like we’re down 48 points.

Al Mclean (12:05):
Absolutely.

Sam Demma (12:07):
How do you, or how do we still do our best to show up positive? We, during times like this?

Al Mclean (12:14):
Well, I think for me and the staff I work with and I’ve worked with some of these staff members on and off for 15 years now. Wow. And, and I would think, and, and the one thing that keeps me motivated, and I like to think keeps them motivated is they’re invested in these kids. Mm. Like this is whether they’re family, friends, or kids of family, friends, whether they, they know the parents, the grandparents just the fact that teachers are invested in kids and, and know that they can make the difference. Like when I look back you know, one of the comments I made to my staff about Brian and Bob was, you know, 30 years ago, 25, you know, 30 years ago, they didn’t call, ’em a caring adult, but we do now. Right. They didn’t talk about teaching resiliency to kids, but that’s what they were doing.

Al Mclean (13:05):
You know? So these practices have always been there. And I’d like to think that our staff is well aware and staff across the board are well aware of these ideals and, and what motivates us and, and me, and a lot of the ones I work with and have worked with is that idea that they do have that impact regardless of what’s going on. So, you know, whether we’re in a pandemic and over a computer screen, they’re trying to reach out to make sure your experience is the same as in a classroom. When you walk through the door, they’re trying to make sure that, Hey, Sam, you know, how was your night you know, did you have hockey last night? Did you play, you know, did you have your music lesson? How’d that go? So they’re invested. And I think that’s what motivates us all is that we know on some level we make a difference and what we do day to day, whether it all, whether it’s a large impact, but we recognize that we wanna make sure we replicate that day after day. And like you said, with Tupac provide that spark.

Sam Demma (14:04):
Absolutely. And as an educator, curiosity is something that you have to have. I, I think back to the teachers that made the biggest impact on me and his, my teacher that changed my life was named Mike loud foot world issues, teacher. And he’s retired now. And he started the semester by walking into the middle of the class and saying, I don’t want you to believe anything. I’m gonna tell you. But if it makes you curious, I want you to go home and explore more yourself. And it instantly hooked me. And he, he spent the whole semester with this thick binder like this Al and it was all his own personal notes on history, on different aspects of history and different aspects of world issues. And he was so curious about learning himself, that his curiosity just naturally rubbed off on all of us. I’m, I’m curious throughout your journey throughout education, have there been any resources or books or programs that you’d went through as a teacher and an administrator that you thought was meaningful and helpful for my own in like personal development and curiosity. And if there is anything that comes to mind, maybe not an actual physical resource, but even a mindset shift please feel free to share.

Al Mclean (15:20):
Well, I, would think one of the things that O over my, my career and, and when I started my career, like I said computers, weren’t a big thing in the inner Annette, wasn’t a big thing. So, you know, you talk about that binder. When I, I was remember in E falls, I was teaching a law class and I would have a subscription of McLeans and I would photocopy articles that I could bring into my classes. Mm. And, and talk about in my psychology classes. And it, it’s interesting in, when you talk about a program, I would say the tire equity, inclusivity change. That’s been happening in education. Yeah. It’s been coming for a while. It’s been term that now. But I would think, I look back to when I was in high school and in no way did the students, I went to school with resemble the students I see in high school now.

Al Mclean (16:09):
Yeah. So when I think, you know, whether it’s, you know, I, I made the, I’ll make this comment later probably, but black lives matter. Every child matters our LGBTQ two plus community. When I really look back at it. And I say, those people have come to the forefront of education and their needs have been put forth more than Al McClain’s needs. And I think that’s a good thing because the Al Blains of the world might just, by the way I look get through, but not everybody. And I, I really have to say that you know, I know you interviewed our director as well. And and she has the indigenous portfolio. I’m very fortunate to work with some amazing indigenous you know, student advisors and an indigenous vice principal. And one of the things, and, and they’re able to provide to me is a perspective that I can’t get through a history book.

Al Mclean (17:05):
Yep. Right. And, and so I really appreciate that. And I say, that’s the biggest change on, on me and my journey. And my learning is that now these textbooks that didn’t tell us everything, I now work with professionals that have that knowledge and are willing to share it. And it’s, it’s fantastic, you know, and, and I, I’d be remiss to say that, you know, I’ll talk about a student later, but the students too, they’re the student voice. And, and I that’s been the offshoot of everything is that we have allowed the student to have a greater voice, and they’re taking advantage of it to be able to tell us a lot of different things.

Sam Demma (17:45):
Tell me more about that student voice aspect. What have you seen slowly start to come to life by giving students more of an opportunity to speak up and share?

Al Mclean (17:55):
So I’ll, I’ll refer to one of the things that happened to us on September 30th. I apologize if there’s a, a sound in the, in the background.

Sam Demma (18:03):
No worries. You’re a busy guy.

Al Mclean (18:06):
But one, one things that happened on September 30th and the national day of truth and reconciliation is we, we had wonderful community partners that came and they set up a TP the night before. And we had a couple of students who spent hours here helping them set it up. The next day, when we came to school, we had two who students practice traditional teachings out of the TP. And we invited teachers to bring their classes down and to sit in and afterwards I was talking with one of the students and I said, you know, how was today? And, and he said to me, he goes, you know, it was excellent. He goes, I can’t believe I’ve had an opportunity to teach what has been taught to me through my elders in a school setting. Wow. And as a, as a I’m English history qualified.

Al Mclean (18:57):
So as a history teacher, it, it really hit me to say, you know, here I am in my 25th year, we’re 2021. You only now are students feeling comfortable to, to do this. Yeah. Right. You know, and, and so that really hit me and, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I enjoyed the teachings that they had. And I think it’s one of the things that we wanna hold close is that, you know, we want students to be able to feel comfortable because when I started here in 2007, I made this comment to the staff in my first year and a half here, when I started here in 2007 you know, we have an indigenous population. That’s almost a quarter to a one fifth of our school. And I remember talking with some students who were fearful to walk through the building, whether you were indigenous or non-indigenous, you just didn’t feel like part of the building, you know? And when students say that they don’t feel like part of your building part of your workplace, that, I mean, that hits home. Right. So now to see the change in the last 15 years, it’s been and I’m not claiming responsibility for some wonderful administrative teams before me that have done a lot of groundwork. But it’s just great to see. And I think that’s, that’s the thing I noticed most about student voice is that that transition from this is a building I walk into versus this is a building I haven’t impacted.

Sam Demma (20:23):
Mm that’s amazing. And as you go through education, work in different roles and positions, I’m sure you’ve learned a lot personally. If, if you could wrap up your experience and you could walk into the first classroom that you ever taught and like, watch your younger self teach and kinda like tap yourself on the shoulder and say, Hey, Al, here’s one piece of advice for you. Yeah. What would you say to your younger self and also to other educators who are just getting into this vocation?

Al Mclean (20:57):
I, would think, and, and I thought I thought about this question and, and I always go back to nine 11 you know, what happened in 2001 and nine 11 in the us. And I remember I was in class and it’s my fourth, fourth year of teaching. And I remember a guidance counselor coming in and, and saying, you know, the world, like there’s planes hitting, you know, towers. And all of a sudden all the internet went down and people were crashing the internet trying to get information. And I remember afterwards what came out of that was, you know, these are the people that did it. And, and again, no fault of the people I worked with, but it almost came, if you look like this, you’re not a good person. Mm. Right. And, and when you watched a lot of the media, and I think I’d go back and I’d, I’d really talk to my, my younger self about, about, explain more about media to, to students and, and the interpretation.

Al Mclean (21:54):
Right. And, and we see it now, we’re lucky that kids are socially aware and the internet provides a lot of things. But I think back then, you know, I didn’t realize it until a couple years later when I got into an administrative role that, you know, you look at the kid, you know, you don’t look at oftentimes, you know, where they’re coming from, or, or who, they’re a part of. Sometimes you look at the kid, you look at their situation because I think for a good year afterwards, it was like, you know, if you’re from this country, you’re bad. Mm you’re. You are the country that terrors. And I don’t think it, it still happens today. Yeah. Right. We still have that. But I think, you know one of the things I’d say is try and do a much better job when you’re younger of changing that narrative.

Al Mclean (22:42):
And I think that’s my, that’s my, my one thing to young teachers coming in right now is regardless of what’s happening in the world starts to change the narrative. If there is a, a report on, on the news, or, you know, we always like to joke here with one of our, our history teachers. We’re big, obviously big history guys, you know, the change in politics, let’s say in the us, from Barack Obama, to Donald Trump, to Joe Biden, you, you look at those things and you don’t want that narrative coming out without some context. So yeah. Don’t let things just go by right. Talk about it you know, engage students in it because they will engage in these conversations and they want to, so that would be my biggest advice is, is just to engage in the conversation and, you know, frame the narrative, let students talk about the narrative frame it, because the other thing I find is, and this was you know, going back to my, my very first year I had a student come back or sorry, my second year I had a student come back from university saying like, sir, I came from a town of 5,000.

Al Mclean (23:48):
I went to Ottawa, which was, you know, 850,000 people. And sir, like, there’s things going on that you’d never realize, like things that happen at night. And, you know, and I, I sat there and I said, well, that’s, that’s life, that’s life in a big city. And she’s like, I was never exposed to it. We never talked about this. Right. So I think that’s the thing is, is engaging people. And it’s hard to do. I think we’ve seen with certainly the events of all the, the mass graves that we’ve that, you know, Canada has exposed over the last year. Those come conversations can’t be avoided and, and they’re good conversations to have framed correctly. That would be my, my biggest thing to get to young teachers is don’t shy away from that because there’s opportunities in there if done correctly.

Sam Demma (24:40):
So important. I interviewed a lady named Pella who runs a media literacy company, and she is hyper focused on media. And, you know, she explains that media is anything that communicates a message, like absolutely everything that communicates a message is a form of media. And yeah, there are so many things to worry about or, or not to worry about, but to think about and reflect on when consuming media first being who’s the publish. Sure. And what is the publisher’s point of view and understanding those two things first kind of changes the way that you interact with it and engage with it. And I think having those discussions in classes about media is so important. So that’s a phenomenal piece of advice. If, if someone’s listening and wants to reach out to you Al and just shoot you a message, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Al Mclean (25:30):
I would say there’s a couple of different ways. So Timmis, vocational school does have a website. You could easily search it off our dsb1.ca. You’ll get to it. We do have th HBS Instagram accounts, but if somebody wants to reach out, my email is Al.Mclean@dsb1.ca. I’ll welcome any conversation.

Sam Demma (25:59):
I’ll keep up the great work and thank you so much for coming on the show.

Al Mclean (26:02):
All right, Sam, thank you very much for inviting me. I, certainly appreciate the work you do too. And, and your messaging around last year as well. I, I watched your messaging and the work that you’re doing is, is awesome. And it’s great to see. And again, a, another example of a teacher lighting, a spark, as you said, and, and, and look what’s happening, right. And I think you’re doing awesome things, and I’m just, I was glad to be a part of this.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Al

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education. By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators. You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Christopher Antilope – Secondary School Teacher with the Halton Catholic District School Board

About Christopher Antilope

Christopher Antilope is a secondary school English & Religion Teacher with the Halton Catholic District School Board. In his vocation of teaching, he infuses his devotion to faith, passion for education, and affinity for pop-culture into the realm of “edutainment”, that of education and entertainment, making his classes both memorable and meaningful for all that enter his classroom.

Antilope is a two-time graduate of the University of Toronto, having earned his Master of Teaching from the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE) and his Honours Bachelor of Arts with High Distinction, where he studied English and Religion.

Connect with Christopher: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

How to do a Social Media Detox

Halton Catholic District School Board

Centre for Drama, Theatre & Performance Studies at the University of Toronto

Masters of Teaching at Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE)

Romeo and Juliet by Shakespeare

Macbeth by Shakespeare

Hamlet by Shakespeare

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Dema (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest on this show is Christopher Antilope or Antilope. I’m mispronouncing one of those too, but we’re close. We’re close. Chris is a secondary school teacher and religion teacher with the Halton Catholic District School Board. In his vocation of teaching, he infuses his devotion to faith, passion for education and affinity for pop culture into the realm of edutainment; that is of education and entertainment, making his classes both memorable and meaningful for all that enter his classroom.

Sam Dema (01:16):
Antilope is a two time graduate at the university of Toronto; having earned his masters of teaching from the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education (OISE) and his honors bachelors of arts with high distinction where he studied english and religion. You’re gonna enjoy this interview because I thoroughly enjoyed chatting with Chris. Let me know what you think. Shoot me an email sam@samdemma.com. After you listen today, I will see you on the other side of this conversation. Enjoy! Christopher, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Start by introducing yourself and then share why you decided to depart from social media.

Christopher Antilope (01:55):
Well, Sam, thank you once again for having me on the show. Please feel free to call me Chris. Christopher is typically when I’m in trouble or if I’m or for only like professional moments, will I introduce myself. But once you start to get to know me, it’s Chris. In terms of social media, I mean, it’s, it’s interesting because I’ll always remember back to my time at OISE at U of T, my teacher’s college, my, one of my instructors names was Janet Marcus ,and she kept on repeating this thing that we, as humans are social animals that, which we are and I’m a real social guy. I like to consider myself an ambivert. And so I like being, I liked being on social media a lot, but something recently has been brewing where I needed time off. I wasn’t being the best version of myself, that which I was seeing on social media, where I was trying to connect with other people; lot of toxicity, online, lot of negativity.

Christopher Antilope (02:55):
And in this day and age where, you know, we’re in a time of chaos, we’re in a time of pandemic where things are pretty negative, I don’t need any more of that. So in the time that I have been off things have been good, been paying attention to myself, mental health, doing some exercises, we’re in lent right now. So that’s important that I pay attention to that, which is most important to me. And obviously that, which is most important to me, can’t be found you know, by using 140 or 200 characters on Twitter so it’s been good. I mean, it, it’s a bit, you know, different at first because you like to see what’s going on in the world. I love pop culture and that, you know, social media is a great form to connect with that, but it’s not what’s most important. So the time off has been quite nice. It’s more of a vacation, I’m never gonna, I’m not gonna close the door on a return. It’s not like I’m some, you know what’s it called celebrity online so it’s not like anyone’s really going to notice, but I do feel like it was time to take a break, stop and smell the roses for a little bit.

Sam Dema (04:05):
I love that. I, I made a similar decision on my 21st birthday and I set out to take a whole year off. And I have followed through with the commitment on Facebook, on inst on Instagram and on LinkedIn, the only platform I, I, I returned to very briefly and intentionally is on Twitter because a lot of teachers live there and I’m, I’m trying to reach more educators. So I saw you post that and on Twitter and it peaked my interest because I made a similar choice. There was some different reasons, but also some similar other ones. The first reason I did it was because I audited my, my usage and found that I was spending an average of three hours per day on social media. Mm. And I can tell you that from what I’ve seen online, that is very conservative to what most young people spend on social media.

Sam Dema (04:56):
Usually sometimes seven hours a day, eight hours a day. It’s, it’s pretty crazy. But three hours per day compounded over the span of a year, ends up being 1,100 something hours. And like yourself, I reflected and asked, you know, what could you use that time for? Like, what could that time be used on that might, you know teach you something, learn something new, develop new skills, build better relationships you know, whatever it is you wanna to use that time for. So that scared me. I also thought it’d be a cool experiment. And for me too, it was to try and dismantle my ego and then, and stop feeling the need to feel validated by others. Yeah. So I really resonated with that tweet and I just wanted to bring it up because you know, education is, is in a state of stress. You mentioned before this podcast that we’re all in the same boat and that boat is the Titanic.

Sam Dema (05:46):
I haven’t heard it. I haven’t heard it stated like that before. So I love that. And it’s true. It’s been a challenging time. And I find that social media may add to that challenge because we’re always seeing negative things. And even if you don’t intend to follow negative pages, it, it does pop up. So thank you for, for sharing that. I, I wanted to get it right out of the way at the beginning of the conversation. Cause I thought it was a very interesting topic. But tell us more about you. So like what led you into educate? Did you know you were gonna be a teacher growing up, share a little bit of your own personal journey.

Christopher Antilope (06:21):
So when it comes to being a teacher, I I’ll never forget what my grade 11 international business teacher Nelson Damaso. He said, he said this to the class, which, and it’s funny that I, I remember these small things cuz I wasn’t and I still not a business student. My dad’s a banker. He wanted me to Excel in in business, but he said, this one thing kind of off the, off the caller one day he said teaching is without a doubt, the greatest job in the world. And then he re he retracted. He said, it’s not even a job. He went along the lines of, you know, when you do it, you love, you never work a day in your life. So that’s something that has always resonated with me. And when I was in high school, I was big into theater and drama.

Christopher Antilope (07:08):
And I mean, I still am. And as I mentioned earlier, I love pop culture, film, television, comic books, as an English teacher. I love books of all of all genre and all types. And so I was really interested in studying theater and drama. I auditioned for the for the theater and drama studies program at the university of Toronto, it’s highly competitive. 24 people are admitted to the program over a thousand people auditioned. So I recall having to do two monologues. One of which was Shakespearean. I did one from Hamlet, not the, to be or not to be because that’s just overdone. I I had to sing a song. I don’t know what drove me to try and sing Bohemian rap city by queen. But I did, did I am, I am not a singer any in any way, shape or form.

Christopher Antilope (08:02):
And I had to do an interview somehow by the grace of God, I was enrolled into the program. I was accepted you know, as the 24th member into this highly competitive program. And so this was fantastic. I was gonna be able to live a, out my dream, entertaining people, doing impressions, you know, this, that, and otherwise being on stage. I love that. And I lived for that as the program started, we received notice kind of from our instructors that we wouldn’t be doing a lot of that acting. We wouldn’t be doing a lot of the performing rather we’d be having to do the, you know, the behind the scenes stuff. So I remember them saying, you’d need to learn how to sew. You’d need to learn how to use you know electric losing my train of thought here, basically knowing how to use a, saw to build the sets electricity, doing the lighting creating costumes, script writing.

Christopher Antilope (09:01):
And so I was taken aback because, you know, I sang Bohemian rap city. I, I did these monologues and yet I wouldn’t be able to put what I consider my God-given talents to you. I remember I was sitting at this very desk where I’m at now and I was reading through my anthropology textbook, cuz I still had to take the the required courses. That was a social science course. And you know, when you’re reading something, but you’re not actually reading it, your eyes are going over the words, but you’re not taking anything in. So that was me a September night back in 2013 and my mom came into my room and she said, you’re not liking this. You’re not loving it. And that’s one thing about me that stays true to this day. If I know that I don’t like something I’ll know it pretty much right from the start, which can be risky.

Christopher Antilope (09:56):
And so at that moment I had to make the decision of, okay, what can I do where I still have an audience? What can I do where I’m still able to be on stage? What can I do where I can, you know, kind of put on a, a, a certain map and perform low and behold. I mean, if, if I have students in front of me in rows and if I have, you know, a place in front of a classroom and if I’m able to put on a certain mask, well, I mean, I’m still doing what I love. It’s just in a different medium. And so that’s where, you know, I came to be a, a teacher and I’ve always loved educating, but it wasn’t until that, you know, news flash where it’s like, Hey, wait a second. I can actually, I can do this.

Christopher Antilope (10:49):
And to this day, I can still consider myself an entertainer, someone that educates and entertains simultaneously. I know in my class right now I’m teaching grade nine, academic English, we’re studying Romeo and Juliet, which for grade nine is actually the language is a lot more difficult than I would say is what’s studied in grade 10, which is typically McBeth. And so I try my best to bring everything to life in a very animated way. And in seeing that the kids laugh and seeing that the students get 500 year old words, because I’m able to do that, say no more. It’s, it’s, it’s fantastic being able to, to do all of that and bring my loves of entertaining and educating together.

Sam Dema (11:39):
I love it. I absolutely love it. I think that when you put passion into the things you teach, it becomes unforgettable to the students. And you’re someone who obviously tries to do that and strives to do that on a daily basis. I’m curious to know how do you engage and entertain your class and your students? What does that look like in a virtual environment?

Christopher Antilope (12:01):
So, oh, in a virtual, well, I still, regardless of whether or not I’m on a screen or 3d in front of, you know, the, the students that are in front of me, I’ll try and be as alive and as animated as possible, not animated, you know, in using a negative connotation. But I just, I try to show the students like what you said, that passion. Mm. What if I’m in front of them and I’m talking about how Shakespeare was from the 15 hundreds and he wrote many plays, they’re gonna stop being engaged. Yeah. But when I’m able to make it relative and relatable to the students. Okay. Yes. It’s important that we understand the history, but how can we get the kids engaged and it’s by, I try be as relatable as possible. So I’ll, I’ll ask them, you ever seen the film?

Christopher Antilope (13:01):
She’s the man with Amanda binds. Have you ever heard of the film 10 things I hate about you, have you ever heard of Westside story noo and Juliet? You know, bringing things that they’re aware of? It’s like, okay, well guess what? That was inspired by something from half a thousand years ago. Mm. So it’s through my animation and through me really trying to do the work in, all right, how can I make this relatable to the students? And I like to really decorate my, my PowerPoint, press presentations with images, words on a screen, they start to all look the same after a while. So I really try and I make it’s it’s art. I find it as a form of art. And I know that when I’m making, you know, my slides or my presentations, I can’t have a slide with just words. There needs to be sort of image whether it’s for decorative purposes or for critical thinking purposes, where the kids go. Hmm. Okay. Now he’s got those words there and he’s got that image there. How do they relate?

Sam Dema (14:07):
Hmm.

Christopher Antilope (14:08):
So it’s being relatable and trying to get the kids to figure out what relates as well.

Sam Dema (14:14):
Got it. Where does this, this philosophy come from? You obviously somewhere along the line of your early teaching journey, which is technically still right now, but when did you decide the lessons need to be engaging and relatable? And I need to make sure that I poor passion into my work. Was it because you had educators who had these attributes and had a huge impact on you? Was it because you had attributes that lacked these, these these character traits and you really wish they had them cuz it would’ve made their classes better. Like where does this personal philosophy come from?

Christopher Antilope (14:49):
That’s a great question, Sam. Part of it is kind of going against what I was taught in teachers college whereby it’s, you know, don’t teach in the way you were taught.

Sam Dema (15:05):
Hmm.

Christopher Antilope (15:05):
So I was taught in this similar way and it, I mean, it worked for me. I mean, I’m an educator now. So seeing, you know, my teachers did, did a good job, but also it’s that plus, you know, kind of a golden rule teach in the way that you wish to be taught.

Sam Dema (15:23):
Mm.

Christopher Antilope (15:24):
And so I know that when I was in high school or even university, if there were just slides on slides on slides, full of paragraphs, I would zone out. Whereas if I had images and you know, some of us are, you know, image based learners, if we’re able to have images on screen and also things that we’re able to relate to, excuse me then. Yeah. So it, it stems from there, but it, it also stems from that idea of edutaining. Yes. So the images that I’ll have on screen they’ll be related relatable, but they’ll also, I’ll try and be comedic with them as well. Nice. So when I’m, when I’m giving feedback to students about essays or any sort of assignment, I’ll do a general because you know, there are things that are similar with students across the board. I’ll throw memes in there, kids from these days. Like I still love memes. I remember when memes, you know, there were certain, you know, I feel like everything these days can become a meme.

Sam Dema (16:30):
Yep.

Christopher Antilope (16:31):
But also that works to my advantage. And that kind of talks to the social media a bit early on where, you know, I’m kind of shooting myself in the foot by taking this vacation because that might mean I’m not on the same lines as the students. So while I might not be posting things, I might still be there lurking in the shadows, see what’s going on. So it, I try and make things as relatable as possible because I know that that is how I would like to be taught

Sam Dema (17:08):
In a sense. I love that. Yeah. I love it. And there’s a, I think there’s a book and I can’t remember the author’s name, but the book is called the platinum rule and it builds on the golden rule and it says, treat others how you would like to be treated a hundred percent what’s next is treat others the way they would like to be treated. And I would argue that students, if you ask them, how would you like to be taught? They would tell you using memes, you using engaging animation and passion within your lectures. That was something that drew me to my teacher who changed my life, his name, Mike loud foot. Like the dude would go stand in front of us, whether it be virtual or in person, I don’t think it’d make a difference. The guy would yell like you would, he was so excited about what he was teaching. And I think that’s super important question for you. How do you motivate yourself? Like what keeps you driven and motivated to show up every day and teach these kids and be animated on the days where you don’t feel like it?

Christopher Antilope (18:07):
Well, I mean, that’s the thing, I mean, to go back to what my, my business teacher, Mr. Damaso said, you know, do what you love. You never work a day in your life. I love performing. Yep. And in being a performer or an actor, sometimes you have to be willing. I don’t wanna say to make a fool of yourself, but you need to, I don’t know. It’s, it’s almost innate. So when I’m teaching Macbeth and you know, there’s a scene in the play where Macbeth sees, you know, the ghost of his friend. Yeah. I’m trying to relate to the students that it’s not some sort of, you know, okay, woo. There’s a ghost. That’s on stage. No, I scream. I yell. I try and replicate what it would have been like, and that that’ll either wake them up. It’ll make them laugh. I’m not ashamed. Yeah. I’m not. If, if, if I know that, okay, I’ve gotten the student’s attention, they’re enjoying this. They’re getting it. Oh please. I don’t, I don’t need to worry about whether they think I’m a goof or not. I know I’m a goof. That’s fine. That’s fine. So how do I stay motivated? I, I wake up, I do what I love. Hmm. And so I don’t, I don’t need any extra motivator. I mean, other than caffeine that really helps.

Christopher Antilope (19:29):
Caffeine helps. And, but, but really there’s nothing extra. I need to say, oh, you know, I, I gotta go. I never say to anyone. Okay. Yeah, I got work. Or I just got home from work or I’m going to work. I say, I’m going to school.

Sam Dema (19:45):
Yeah.

Christopher Antilope (19:46):
Not only because that’s where I’m going, but also I’m going to as a teacher, but I’m also going to school as a student. Cause these kids are teaching me as well.

Sam Dema (19:58):
Say no more.

Christopher Antilope (20:00):
Yeah. I’m always, I am always open to learning and I do. These kids teach me so much and they know more than I could ever know.

Sam Dema (20:09):
I love it. No, that’s awesome. And wow, man, you struck a core. You said I do what I love and I’m, I’m not gonna work. I’m going to school. If there’s, you know, you mentioned earlier that you’re someone who knows very quickly, like at the start of something, whether you love it or not, if there’s an educator listening who is having those feelings of, ah, I’m not sure if this is what I should be doing or I feel like this is work and I, I’m not really enjoying it right now. Like what words of advice could you share with, with an educator? Like what would you, what could you offer say?

Christopher Antilope (20:46):
Well, I mean, that question is heavier, has never been so heavy yeah. Than in this time. Right now when I was in teachers college, I remember kind of getting the, you know, the talking to, as you know, this isn’t the best time to become a teacher because of the shortages, because of, you know, the, the powers that be will say in government. And now, okay, we’ve got COVID and there are people that I know that are currently teachers with permanent jobs that are feeling this way, because these are trying times we are being tested. So the words that I will say to those that, you know, might be feeling these ways is, you know, I don’t, I don’t mean to sound cliche. Don’t give up.

Sam Dema (21:37):
Yeah.

Christopher Antilope (21:38):
Don’t give up because truthfully, when people, when I get the, the question every now and then, oh, what would you do if you couldn’t be a teacher? I, I don’t think I could give an answer immediately. I, this is what I love. This is who I am. Yep. I’m a teacher. So, and it, it’s funny because when other people who aren’t teachers have asked me, how’s this year going, it’s a lot different talking to them versus talking to other teachers. Yeah. Cause it’s really one of those. You don’t know what it’s like until, or unless you’re actually in it. So to those of you that want to do this, do it.

Sam Dema (22:25):
Hmm.

Christopher Antilope (22:25):
Just, just like Nike do it. I it’s, and you won’t regret it. You will not regret it. It is the best thing in the world.

Sam Dema (22:38):
Love it. I love that. That’s great advice. Just do it. I think it’s important to understand, like, like you said, it’s different when you talk to someone outside the vocation of teaching verse is when you talk to someone inside, it’s the whole idea of, you know, the pilot of an airplane, wouldn’t ask a passenger, Hey, can you come fly the plane? You know, like, so I think the feedback that, that an educator can take away is, you know, don’t, don’t talk to your, your family outside of education for support go find, and your colleagues, you know, talk to them, they’ll be able to give you, you know, good advice and hopefully be able to lift up your spirits during this time.

Christopher Antilope (23:18):
Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I don’t wanna entirely discount what other people, non teachers have to say, because you know what everyone has tidbits of wisdom. There’s a university professor wrote a book, 12 rules for life. And one of his rules is assume that the person you are listening to might know something, you don’t love it. And that’s how I try to live where it’s like, you know what, no, this person, regardless of who they are, I’m gonna listen to them because they might have that little nugget of wisdom that can set me on the right path. So it’s a matter of keeping, keeping your ears in your eyes open and doing what you love.

Sam Dema (24:07):
Love it. I love that. And I think what’s also interesting is, you know, you mentioned that if someone asked you, if you weren’t a teacher, what would you do? I think me knowing how you feel about teaching, I would’ve responded saying I will teach. It might just be in a different way. Like if you’re obsessed with teaching you could, you’ll find a way to teach if you’re obsessed, you know, if you’re obsessed with nursing, you’ll find a way to be a service to people, right? Like even if it doesn’t happen the way you envision it to. So I think that’s also an interesting, you know, an interesting thing to, to, to chat about real quick. When did you decide, right? Like after you kind of realized the, the acting path wasn’t gonna work out. When was the moment you decided I’m gonna become a teacher? Like, I know that I understand you went to school and you got in and it was going well. Like, what was the exact moment? You said, no, I’m going, I’m gonna shift and, and change this just a little bit.

Christopher Antilope (25:02):
Well, in a way, I feel like it was there all along. And it’s funny. It’s funny you ask that because I remember, and it’s funny how little bits of memory will come back to you. In, in the weirdest of times, I was in grade nine English and my grade nine English teacher was Mrs. O’neil and oh, I loved her. She was fantastic. And, and we reconnected a couple years ago. She actually helped me with my master of teaching research paper. I interviewed her for that and I don’t know what drove me, but one day she had to just step out of class. And I took her spot at the front of the class. She used to sit on the front of the, a desk, cross her legs and kind of, you know, wave them back and forth. And I did that. And I remember, you know, in quotation marks teaching the lesson. So I feel like it was there all along, but at that same time, that person there is, you know, that was the origin story of who I am today. Here was some class clown grade nine, academic English, student performing, but at the same time teaching.

Sam Dema (26:19):
Yep.

Christopher Antilope (26:20):
So, I mean, to answer your question, it, the decision came very quickly, you know, it was, I think it was literally the third day of my undergraduate studies at university of Toronto where I said, I can’t do this acting route because what they’re asking of me is not going to make me happy. It was going to be incredibly demanding. And to those that graduated, God bless all of them. I wished them nothing but the best. And I remember having to depart from them. We had already shared some memories and they were great people, but my path was not L yeah, it wasn’t there. And I am, as you could tell a lot happier for it.

Sam Dema (27:02):
I love the, that you, you mentioned something interesting that when you were in high school, you were quote unquote, the class clown, right. Or, or striving to be like that. And I have a colleague, his name’s Josh ship. He’s also a speaker and he always mentions a young person’s most promising characteristics. Most often first appear a as an annoyance. And he had a similar situation where in high school, he always tried to annoy the students or not annoyed, but make them laugh. And, you know, his teacher pulled him aside and said, when you get your students laughing, they listen. And when you get them listening, you have an opportunity to influence. And it stuck with me. Do you believe that your origins as class clown has led to your, your teaching philosophy of entertaining and educating at the same time?

Christopher Antilope (27:55):
Yeah. I mean, I would say so. And I mean, by no means was I that, that type totally get it. Class clown, that was annoying. I, I’ll defend my integrity.

Sam Dema (28:05):
There.

Christopher Antilope (28:06):
I, I found my humor as a, as a high school student a little bit smarter than your, you know, stereotypical class clown, but You might have to ask that question again.

Sam Dema (28:20):
Yeah. I was gonna say, do you think that the character trait of being funny, I or of making other students laugh, led you towards this philosophy of edutainment? Cause you can be passionate and lack humor. But I think if you have both, it leads for like a very engaging presentation in class.

Christopher Antilope (28:41):
Yeah. I just, I feel myself nice when I’m in front of the students in, in a very appropriate professional way. Yeah. So, and I completely agree that there are times obviously when we’re teaching certain elements that might not be as entertaining. Cuz look, when, and by no means, am I saying that when students enter my classroom, it’s the same as entering a comedy club. Hmm. Right. And, and I, talking to that I have with my students is, you know, don’t don’t mistake my nature as being an easy marker or as being someone that doesn’t care care because I, I strongly care. I strongly care because these kids not to sound cliche, they are the future. And when I teach, I want them to be better when they leave my class or when they leave high school than when they entered my class or the high school itself.

Christopher Antilope (29:51):
So in using the entertaining factor. Yeah. Part of it is so that I can exercise my, my funny bone, but it’s also as a way that, Hey, this God given gift of humor, I can actually put to use and I can, I can make the students pay attention more. Like, like I said, we’ve been doing Romeo and Juliet and I’ve been really stressing the fact that ladies and gentlemen, this is a story fictitious of course, about a 16 year old guy and a 13 year old girl who agreed to get married within 12 hours of meeting each other and look, you’re laughing. Yeah. But that’s it, when I tell to the students who are in that age range, they take a step back and go, oh my gosh, that’s weird. And it’s that weirdness that I will try and, you know, captivate where it’s like, yeah, that’s weird, laugh about it. Let’s pay attention. Mm. And then they do, it’s like, okay, well, let’s forget kind of about the, the weird language. Let’s pay attention to the story. Let’s pay attention to this 500 year old text that we’re still studying today because we must be studying it for a reason if it’s, if we’ve been doing it for 500 years.

Sam Dema (31:16):
Cool. Love that. That’s a great answer. There’s a benefit to all character traits. And I think humor is a great one, especially I think what’s most important is that you said you feel, you feel yourself when you use it. And I think authenticity is the most important thing. And you know, you don’t have to be a funny teacher if you’re not a funny teacher, if you’re listening to this exactly. If that’s who you are, then be who you are because the students will always gravitate towards that authentic teaching style. Even in speaking, right. Any type of presenting. I remember when I started speaking, I used to look at other speakers and aspire to sound like them or appear like them. And I think I became more influential when I actually returned back to myself and did the things that would make me feel like myself and stop trying to do those other things. Curious though, if you could give your younger educator self advice knowing what you know now, what advice would you give your younger self? Huh. And you’re still pretty young. So,

Christopher Antilope (32:19):
And I mean, I was gonna bring that up. I, cause I’m only in my third year of teaching. Yep. If I could tell, so what year are we talking? Are we talking my, my first year?

Sam Dema (32:32):
Yeah. First year in teaching. And what’s interesting is that some people have been in teaching 20 years. Right. And they look back it. I think we can reflect at any stage, whether it’s one year in teaching or three years, it just gives a different perspective. So I’m curious to know you’re three years in now, if you could go back to your first day of teaching you finished the day. What advice would you give your younger, your younger self?

Christopher Antilope (32:57):
Take it one day at a time.

Sam Dema (33:00):
Nice.

Christopher Antilope (33:01):
And like, I’ll, I’ll be honest with you, Sam. My first, I’ll say month of teaching, I was so I was blessed to get a long term, occasional position straight out of teacher’s college. So I gradual waited in 2018, June of 2018. And that September I was blessed with a full year long-term occasional position. And I kind of, you know, in my mindset there was, well, if not now, then when, mm, the best experience is experience. And I knew that I wanted a classroom and I wanted students and I wanted to do what I love. Well, let me tell you, I had never experienced anxiety attacks until that first day, week. I’ve never wept like that in my life. And I didn’t know where it was coming from that it was so weird because, and this isn’t to say that teachers college didn’t prepare me because teachers college prepared me for the theory and my teaching placements. They prepared me for what life in a classroom looks like if I hadn’t been in one before.

Sam Dema (34:25):
Yeah. But

Christopher Antilope (34:27):
If you catch my drift here, and if I was having anxiety attacks for a month, that might go on to say, Hmm, I wasn’t prepared for some elements. Right. So I was received advice, oh man. I, I remember talking to friends and family of mine that were teachers and I was craving advice. I needed something because it’s not that I was having doubts, but in my, like, I was literally weeping on my couch. And once again, my mom came down and she says, you know, do you think it was too soon? Do you still wanna do do this? And I said, oh, absolutely. I want to do this. I’m not giving up here. And so I received the advice from my future. Sister-In-Law, you know, take it one day at a time. And if there’s anything that I could tell my younger teaching self, same thing, make sure you know, what you’re teaching for tomorrow. Mm. And like so much can happen. And so much does happen, especially in this day and age of pandemic, where it is literally all in flight planning.

Sam Dema (35:36):
Yep.

Christopher Antilope (35:37):
I, I mean, you know, three years into it, man, I’m I’m so I don’t wanna say I’m comfortable cuz I don’t want that to make it sound like I’m lazy or anything, but I don’t have to worry about all that stuff because it’s, I’ve experienced it now. I’ve gotten that first hand experience. I know what we’re dealing with. I pandemic COVID okay, fine. Let’s throw that into the mix. I know how to deal with everything else. Were I a first year teacher going into this? I pray for those.

Sam Dema (36:07):
Yep.

Christopher Antilope (36:08):
That is obviously incredibly tough. And I wouldn’t, you know, but it’s interesting. I wouldn’t wish that upon anyone, but that’s something that my fiance is undergoing right now for year permanent teaching full year teaching job teaching virtually in the middle of the pandemic,

Sam Dema (36:24):
But you know, what’s yeah. You know, what’s interesting. I was gonna say she hasn’t had experience otherwise. So yes, if this is her first year, she has nothing to compare it to except for the expectations of others. So I, I think what’s interesting is about first year teachers is that they’re gonna teach virtually for the first time ever for their first year ever. It might be challenging. And then they’re gonna get this amazing reward of going into the classroom, you know, once this all passes, hopefully that, that it does. And they’re gonna say, wow, I’m so grateful to be in the classroom. And hopefully that influences the rest of their teaching career whenever they have the opportunity to be in person with students. But that’s beautiful advice. That’s great advice. Did you have a last thought there? Sorry. I think I cut you off slightly.

Christopher Antilope (37:12):
No, no. All I was gonna do was put in a plugin for my fiance, because I know please has, it has been challenging. They, this year has been incredibly challenging, but I know, and I have seen the work that she, Sarah if she’s ever going to be listening to this, she has poured her heart and her soul literally into this. And from the, the feedback that I have heard and from seeing what she’s been able to do that like makes me go, huh? I gotta, I gotta step this up a little bit. Nice because she’s, you know, she’s putting me to shame in some respects, but no, Sarah, she’s doing a fantastic job. Her students are lucky to have her. And I’m not just saying that because she’s my fiance.

Sam Dema (37:58):
I love that. Chris, this has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for taking some time to chat on the podcast. If someone wants to reach out to you, talk about how to be a, an edutainer or, you know, incorporate anything we talked about into their lessons, or just wants to have a conversation about teaching with you. What would be the best way for someone to reach out?

Christopher Antilope (38:17):
Well, like I said earlier, even though I’m taking this little sabbatical or vacation from Twitter, I might still be lurking in, in those shadows so you can find me on Twitter. I’ll still get the notification you can find me at all right. You ready for this folks? The cantalope is my is my name. Yes. My parents had the hindsight of blessing me with a first name that starts with a C and having my last name being Loppe, which is the Italian translation to antelope, So let’s capitalize on the antelope.

Sam Dema (38:49):
I love it. I love it. There’s the, the edutator coming out, even in your stage name.

Christopher Antilope (38:54):
That’s it, That’s it honest to God, but Sam, thank you so much for having me. I, I would love to talk with you again. I don’t know if you have sequel guests, but by all means I’d love to talk some more. Especially in a time maybe out of COVID to see how things are going ’cause it’s, it’s another ballgame right here.

Sam Dema (39:14):
We will a hundred percent do a part two a hundred percent. Maybe we can share some cantaloupe while we, while we record.

Christopher Antilope (39:22):
Hey, you know what? I, I do love some cantaloupe with some antipasto, have a little bit of Peru. That’s beautiful, Sam, thank you so much for having me once again.

Sam Dema (39:31):
Chris, talk soon.

Christopher Antilope (39:33):
God bless.

Sam Dema (39:34):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show; f you want meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Christopher Antilope

February 20, 2022 by Sam Demma Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Chad Ostrowski, Jeff Gargas and Rae Hughart – The Teach Better Team

About the Teach Better Team

The TEACH BETTER team (@teachbetterteam) imagines a world where every educator is connected, supported, and inspired to be BETTER every day; so that all learners can discover and develop their passions to positively impact our communities. BUT – how do we get there?

Not every educator is in the right mental space to learn. While we continue to juggle new elements of the profession, daily tasks, managing student needs & navigating a work-life balance, being a lifelong learner can find itself on the backburner.

The Teach Better Team has been built on best practice instructional pillars, but without a growth mindset, Professional Development is like throwing spaghetti at the wall to see what sticks.

It is our belief that the first step toward being better, every day, begins with carrying a mindset focused on being open-minded to small steps.

Connect with the Teach Better Team: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Teach Better Website

Teach Better Conference

Administrator Mastermind

Teach Better Store

Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. I’m beyond excited to bring you today’s interview. It’s a conversation that happened about a month and a half ago, and the topics we discussed still are fresh in my mind, due to the power at which they were explained by today’s three guests. This is one of the first times I’ve had three people on with me, having a four person conversation on the podcast, and it’s an amazing, amazing conversation.

Sam Demma (01:08):
Today we’re talking with the Teach Better team. You can find out more about them on teach, better.com. All of their work aligns very deeply with my philosophy of small consistent actions; that small incremental changes make huge differences and improvements. Yeah, right. he whole idea is not to be perfect, but to be better. And that’s really the DNA throughout their entire company who, which was founded the CEO by Chad. Chad and Jeff; those are the two gentlemen that co-founded the initiative. And we also are joined by Ray, their CMO, and they all have very diverse experiences, and share a ton of phenomenal information that I know will help you as an educator. So buckle up and enjoy this interview. I will see you on the other side. Chad Ray, Jeff, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. I know we are in different places, geographically in the world. It’s so cool that zoom can connect us and I know all three of you are huge champions for technology and education. I wanna give each of you though, a opportunity to introduce yourself, however you’d wanna be introduced, and share a little bit behind the reason why you’re so passionate about the work you do in education and Chad you can kick it off, followed by Ray, and then Jeff.

The Teach Better Team (02:24):
Absolutely. I’m Chad Ostrowski, I’m the CEO and the co-founder of the teach better team. And I have the pleasure of working with schools, districts, and teachers across the country to not only spread mastery learning and student-centered best practices, but working with these two amazing colleagues to just grow the awareness of what best practices in, education can do. I think what gets me the most exciting is seeing the impact of our work. Whether that’s a teacher overcoming a stressful year or situation, or having the best success they’ve ever had, or a student who’s never been successful in a classroom, finding that success and being able to thrive when they’ve never done so before. And I think that’s at the core of a lot of what we do; its just finding that spark and inspiring, not only the learners in the classrooms, but the teachers and the administrators in the schools, in the districts we get to work with here on the Teach Better team.

Sam Demma (03:23):
Love that.

The Teach Better Team (03:24):
Yeah. Gosh, how do you follow that? This is bad. You win. No, Hey everyone. My name’s Ray. I am the CMO of the teach better team, and I’m also full-time sixth grade math teacher. So I love having kind of the role of working with students by day and teachers by night and on the weekends and all, some are long cuz that’s what we do here in the teach, better family. I, I, I think this answer like changes depending on the day and the week, because the teach better team continues to be such a safe space for educators that has this family mentality, but also allows educators to kinda walk in and gain value however they need at that point in time. So I think my favorite element that’s really fueling my excitement, not only to work with students and to work with educators and leaders really stems from the desire of building a community and a family, which I’m gonna get into today. So I, I love that you had us all on, we don’t normally get to do podcasts altogether, so this is gonna be a fun conversation. Awesome.

The Teach Better Team (04:28):
Yeah. This is kind of fun. You know, we, we don’t always get to do podcasts together, but Ray doesn’t even mention, like we do podcasts together literally all the time, but she doesn’t even list that into things that she does. So I’ll, I’ll list it for us. Right. I’m so I’m Jeff Garas, I’m the COO and co-founder of the teach better team. And I’m Ray’s co-host on is how she prefers me to say that on the teach, better talk podcast as well. I get to do that.

The Teach Better Team (04:51):
Glad I’m glad, you know, your place, Beth, my post,

The Teach Better Team (04:55):
I am your co-host. And I, I think I’m just the guy who tricked these two in a whole bunch of other amazing and educators somehow let me continue to work with them. So I, I second everything they say, I think for me, it’s the word family has become such a big thing, big piece of what we do. And that’s probably my favorite part. You know, Chad mentioned about our impact in classrooms and in school districts, but for me too, it’s this impact of the people we get to work with that work with our team that are okay at the door team and all, everything like that. It’s just, it’s awesome.

Sam Demma (05:25):
I love that. It’s amazing. And I’m so happy to have all of you here on the show right now. When I think about mastery, my mind immediately jumps to Malcolm Gladwell and the book he wrote outliers that talks about the 10,000 hour rule, you know, you know, put 10,000 hours in. And I see that all three of you are super passionate about this idea of, as you said, Chad, at the, at the beginning of this podcast, mastery based learning, like what is that like, take, take me, take us through what that is. And maybe all three of you can chime in. And why are you so passionate about making sure that schools adopt this concept in their teaching strategies and styles?

The Teach Better Team (06:01):
I’m gonna, I’m just gonna put the quarter in Chad real quick, as we say, let him know for a

The Teach Better Team (06:05):
Minute, feel free to take the quarter out if needed too. So just for, as this goes forward,

The Teach Better Team (06:11):
Contr pop with believe there is no like emergency stop button. It’s just

The Teach Better Team (06:15):
So in its simplest form, I like to equate the term mastery with student readiness to move forward. Got it. I think one of the biggest crimes in education is a teacher-centered idea of what instruction needs to be, where the teacher is driving the pace, the content, the choice in how everything is occurring in the classroom and just sort of dragging students along. And I think this is what traditional education basically was for a really long time. And in some cases still is I think mastery learning is a Keystone and a core component in moving classrooms to being more student-centric. So at its core mastery learning focuses on students moving at their own pace when they are ready to move on from one topic or one a activity to the next, as opposed to, you know, if I’m in a classroom and student a didn’t understand the lesson from Monday yet, I, I asked them to understand the, a lesson on Tuesday when they have no prior knowledge or understanding yet I am now putting that student in an inequitable disadvantage in that classroom.

The Teach Better Team (07:28):
So I think mastery learning creates a level playing field for every single student in the classroom to not only grow and learn at their own pace, whether that’s quicker than their peers, but also get the, the help that they need and deserve in their learning environment. Mm and I also think mastery learning at its core fully supports these other best practices that we know work in education, things like differentiation, backwards, design, universal design for learning, even embedding things like PB and inquiry based learning and community connections in the classroom can be supported via mastery learning. So I don’t like to say that mastery learning’s the only thing we do because I think it’s the start of the conversation that we have to have in education that then branches into in completely kind of including all of those student centered best practices that focus on what the student needs, where they’re at and how do we move them to the next step.

The Teach Better Team (08:28):
I do have to add, I, when I originally connected with Chad, I mean, Chad, your passion for mastery learning has like been there from the beginning. And when we originally connected and you told me about this concept over a Google meet, I believe I was like, yeah, that sounds good. But I hadn’t seen it actually done in a classroom. And at the time I was working in, you know, a classroom that we were 94% low income, and I had all these other hurdles I was working with. And to be honest, Sam, my passion was so much more focused on student engagement. How am I gonna get students in the building? How am I going to use neon colors and fun activities to ensure that they’re enjoying learning? And what I found right or wrong is that master learning from me was this missing piece that I needed as an educator to actually then do all the other things I wanted to do better.

The Teach Better Team (09:23):
And so it’s so comical now looking at mastery learning and, and actually getting the luxury of working with educators, right with the teach better team, because as you articulated wonderfully, Chad, it really is kind of that fundamental concrete base that then we can build everything off of educators right now are struggling to keep students engaged. We feel like we’re trying to outshine YouTube and you know, do everything better. And, and I think the reality is is that we can do all these elements better in education. If we start with that core value of truly meeting this where they’re at. So honestly the concept of master learning changed my life for the better and definitely my trajectory of, you know, success as an educator.

Sam Demma (10:05):
That’s awesome. Love that. Jeff, anything to chime in here?

The Teach Better Team (10:11):
No, I mean, they summed it up really, really well. I think for, for me, you know, I’m, I’m not pretty much the only, I think the only one there’s maybe like one or two of us on the team that aren’t classroom teachers got it. So it’s been, you know, different journey for me, but one of the biggest things that’s hit me when early on when Chad and I were traveling all over visiting schools and stuff like that. And I was just learning so much about what was going on and why I was having impact. Just thinking back to like when I was in school, when I did pretty well in school, like I, you know, in, from a good home, I’m in a good area. Like I was, I was gonna be all right, like kind of a thing. But I look back at that if had I been challenged properly because they were actually assessing where I was actually at and where I was actually, what I was actually learning or not learning and gaining or not gaining what I, what my experience would’ve been like and had I would, I been able to, I don’t, I don’t saying like, oh, I could go back and hopefully I would’ve achieved more or anything like that, but would I been ha in a better spot, better position to, to learn and grow as a person than versus what it actually did was took me a long time to kind of like figure out my life afterwards.

The Teach Better Team (11:11):
And a lot of that, I just look back at how that is and think through all the kids that have gone through that system that didn’t have the extra setup that I had in a sense of coming from a good family and a good, a good home and a good, you know, I had a, I had a good starting point better than most. And I, if, if, if I would’ve had that, if other kids don’t have that they’re even further behind. And so that’s where my passion behind is going. Like, what could that have done for me? And even more than that, the kids that didn’t even have the things that I had, how can we change that for future kids? But

Sam Demma (11:41):
You gave me a perfect segue into the question I was writing down while all three of you were speaking, which is what does this mean for assessment in the classroom? Is there, is there a way that mastery learning approaches assessments differently? Because I can tell you personally that growing up, I, I wholeheartedly attached my entire self worth as a human being, to my ability to have an a plus or a 95% average on my tests and report cards and coming from a European family, I’ll be honest. It felt like it, it felt like if I didn’t bring that home, there was issues and problems. When in reality, I could have a 95% average not understand the concepts, just be memorizing things and not really engaged with the learning. Right. And Jeff, as you point yourself, there, it’s a common thing that happens with all of us. Yep. And I know all three of you have your mics, your mics on muted, ready to jump in. So please tell me how mastery learning and the grid method approaches assessment differently.

The Teach Better Team (12:37):
I just wanna jump in and see if Chad’s having dejavu, cuz him and I had like an hour and a half long conversation about assessment yesterday. So Chad, I’m gonna let you take this one, but I have to remind you like this is not actually dejavu. This is a new conversation we can just,

The Teach Better Team (12:54):
Yeah. So I actually, I love this question because assessment is such a core aspect of where a student is at so we can grow them. But I think in a traditional sense, we usually look at assessments and we say, it’s a quiz, it’s a test. And, and it’s just like this autopsy, right? This is what you know, and we’re gonna move on regardless of how well you did. I think mastery learning changes the assessment culture. And we start to look at assessment as snapshots of where a student is on their larger aspect and their growth as a learner. One of my favorite ways to think about assessment is that that’s where the student is today. It’s not where they have to stay forever. And I think mastery learning really articulates that well, and it embodies things like retakes standards, aligned assessment, formative assessment practices.

The Teach Better Team (13:51):
So it makes assessment a natural part of, of learning as opposed to these high stakes really stressful environments. So instead of assessment becoming this super stressful high stakes, oh my gosh, I hope I do really well situation it’s Hey, Sam prove what you know right now. So I know how to help you further. And I think that’s a huge cultural or shift that mastery learning helps occur in classrooms. I think it also helps align instruction and assessment. With a lot of the schools in classrooms, we work with a district will come and say, we need to do we need to reestablish our assessments. And I go, well, have we talked about instruction at, because if those two things don’t talk to one another, that’s a really big problem. So a lot of mastery learning comes in the planning process in the backwards design process, which ensures that the learning that’s occurring, the growth that’s supposed to happen.

The Teach Better Team (14:51):
And the measurement tool that you’re using to establish that growth are all connected and all work together. And then the most important thing is the idea that the assessment is not the last step. It’s the first step in identifying where the students at with grid method classrooms. We have a saying F a I L fail stands for first attempt in learning failure should be the first step in the learning process where you’re identifying gaps in needs so that you, as the educator can take next steps to fill those gaps and move the student forward.

The Teach Better Team (15:26):
Wow. I know rays gonna jump in. I just wanna touch on like, Chad, you already kind of wrapped this up, but you said the word like autopsy, right? So your assessment, it’s not, it shouldn’t be the looking back at what happened before. It’s utilizing that to see what do, what happens next? What do we do next? What do we take them from there? And Ray’s gonna say it a whole lot better than I did.

The Teach Better Team (15:45):
No. You know, I actually, I don’t wanna take us down like a rabbit hole here, but it’s interesting Sam, when you ask your question and Chad, as you in, into your explanation, I’m separating the concept of mastery learning is a phenomenal instructional practice we should have in our classrooms. Me personally, though, when I was trying to figure out how to achieve it, it came into the, I mean, Chad, you brought it up like the grid method, which is that mastery framework that we get to do. We’re fortunate enough to do a lot of work in, and for me, that’s what I needed because when I think of formative summative assessment or any sort of evaluation of student understanding, it comes down to the fact that never in my career never have. I seen educators having more conversations with students than I do right now. And how valuable is it that when I was in school, back in the day assessment was this high stakes test.

The Teach Better Team (16:34):
And that was the only time that you were really, even if it was a one way communication, you were communicating what you know, whereas now not only in my own classroom, but in classrooms that we get to work with, educators are having one-on-one or small group conversations with their students every single day. And to me, that that is so much more of an example of authentic assessment. Because if I have an administrator walk in on a random Tuesday, I can tell them exactly where their student is at, you know, and, and they might all be in 24 different spots for 24 different students. But because we’re giving teachers the gift of time able to actually have those authentic conversations. So that assessment becomes a valuable use of their classroom time. Does that make sense?

Sam Demma (17:21):
Yeah. A hundred percent Chad go for

The Teach Better Team (17:23):
It. I also think Ray’s hitting on a really core benefit of mastery learning that it expands the definition of what assessment can be. Yeah, right. So instead of it having to be blanks on a worksheet or bubbles on a, on a, on an, an a Scantron test or something like that, it can now be any form of demonstration of mastery. And so I think that’s a, a, a core component that mastery learning helps support is the, the broadening of the idea that we can assess mastery authentically and in more ways than we traditionally thought were possible. And that a student can demonstrate that mastery, however, is comfortable and close enough to their ability, their current ability level. And it means the same, whether it’s a Scantron test or a, a five second conversation like Ray Ray’s talking about. And I think that’s a really powerful thing for a teacher to embody in the classroom.

Sam Demma (18:19):
My mind immediately jumps to that picture of a bunch of different animals, an elephant a monkey. And there’s a goldfish and, oh, judge the goldfish by its ability to, you know, to climb a tree, it will limit its whole life believing it to failure. And I think, you know, what you’re getting at here is the idea that yeah, assessment isn’t binary and using this mastery learning approach, you know, allows the different animals to be tested in their unique capacities, to see if within their skillsets, are they learning as much as they can and maximizing their ability?

The Teach Better Team (18:53):
Well, and for the teacher to be able to evaluate the type of animal they’re, they’re working with, like how many times have we all sat stood in front of a classroom of 34 and said, Ooh, I can’t wait to figure out the inner workings of every single student that are all gonna be different. Oh yeah. And then in an hour, they’re all gonna rotate and I get a whole other group of group of kids. So that time is really valuable.

Sam Demma (19:16):
Love that. Awesome. It it’s, and it’s not about being perfect. Right. it’s not about being perfect. It’s about being better, right? It’s about 1% improvement. It’s about being a little bit better today. A little bit better tomorrow. It’s about complaining better, right there. There’s so many things that you guys talk about in your books in past podcasts. And I love this idea that we don’t have to arrive tomorrow because that’s unrealistic and mastery does take time. But if we do improve, you know, small, consistent actions as I would say my teacher would inspired me when I was in grade 12, it leads to a massive change. So at the heart of what you, you, why do you believe, you know, being 1% better than you are right now is really what we’re going for and working towards with all the work that each of you are doing.

The Teach Better Team (20:03):
That’s a good, that’s a good, solid que I think, I think you really just said it cuz to be perfect or where we want to be, or hit a goal tomorrow as a unrealistic, unless we set really, really low goals. Right? Mm. But to be 1% better, tomorrow is something we can accomplish. And if we’re trying to be 1%, that doesn’t mean we can’t be 10% doesn’t mean we won’t be 20%. Right. But, but to understand that it, it doesn’t need to be, and it’s the scale like across all the animals, right? It’s going to be a whole bunch of different percentages based on that individual animal, that student, that person, whatever they need at the time and what they’re working on and the level of the, the number of, of, of hours, it’s going to take them specifically to hit that master or whatever it is. So to understand that, like, it doesn’t have to be this, it can be more, but it doesn’t have to be it just as long as we’re moving forward, we’re moving forward and we’re getting towards what a mastery is for each individual person and student. Nice. That’s how I view it.

The Teach Better Team (21:01):
I also think sort of like that teach better mindset that we talk about better today and better tomorrow. And that constant search for that 1% better, that constant search for better also broadens the scope of what is possible on an, on a given day, because you can be better at something on the worst day you you’re having in a week. You can be, you can be better at something on the worst year you’re having as a teacher. So by not going, you need to be a perfect educator tomorrow. Cause you’re probably, that’s never going to happen. There’s no such thing as a perfect educator. Yeah. I’m not a perfect educator. I’ve never worked with a perfect educator cuz it’s not something that can actually exist. She’s

The Teach Better Team (21:43):
Right there, Chad.

The Teach Better Team (21:44):
But if we, except for Ray possibly but definitely

The Teach Better Team (21:49):
Not perfect friends. I hate to tell you, but

The Teach Better Team (21:51):
I, I, I think the better mindset gives access to improvement and it gives the freedom of an individual regardless of how their day, year, month or career is going to be better to what can I do better? And it might not be better at instruction. It might be better at forming relationships. It might be smiling at a student instead of giving them a mean look, and that might be how you’re better. Cause in, you know, at the Genesis of the teach better team, I was at the lowest point in my entire career. And it was those little moments of finding something I could be better at that eventually built up to massive instructional changes, massive personal changes, massive relational changes. And it’s not about that. It’s about the 1% every day because we can all at least commit to that. But it’s about the, the culminating event change in progress that occurs when it’s 1% every day, cuz you’re also gonna have 5% days when you’re, you’re also gonna have 20% days and 3% days. But as long as you can have 1% every day, you’re always gonna be moving forward. And the culmination of that is something that’s truly been amazing to watch educators and schools and districts we work with go through and that, and that’s such a driving force behind the family and the work that we do every single day.

The Teach Better Team (23:21):
I think theres a piece of this like that, you know, so you can have, we can have 5% days, you can also have negative 5% days. Right. But I think if you’re focused on being better versus trying to be perfect or trying be exactly here all the time, you can have a bad day and come back the next day and go, wow, it’s a lot easier to be better today because yesterday I wasn’t so great, but I’m still moving forward. Right? I’m still growing versus now I’m further and further and further away from this probably unrealistic goal that I set for myself in the first place.

Sam Demma (23:48):
Love that. And Ray alluded to this earlier for you, the listener, if you, if you didn’t catch it, she was talk. She said, you know, we have to strive to be better than YouTube. That’s actually the title of her latest TEDx talk. So make sure you check it out on YouTube. It’s awesome. Ray, what does that mean? What does it mean to be better in YouTube? And, and why did you title your talk that,

The Teach Better Team (24:07):
You know, it’s so funny guys. We, you know, if you guys go to teach bear.com, you’re gonna see oodles and oodles and oodles of content and there’s more and more and more being published every single day. And when you apply to a part of a Ted experience, it has to be original content. And there’s so many things that I believe and that I would love to continue to share with the world. But one of the things that really hit home during COVID, as, as every educator, as I said in my, in my Ted talk was kind of thrown to the wolves and we had to figure it out on the fly and we saw incredible problem solving and, and, and incredible characteristics, you know, shine in the people that we were working with. I really struggled working with educators that were trying to compete with resources that were already good and in existence for us already.

The Teach Better Team (24:58):
Hmm. So when I was trying to craft up my message and I definitely wanted mastery learning to be a focus. I wanted my own personal learning journey to be, to be shared. One of the key takeaways I wanted educators to recognize is that, you know, teachers are masters at inspiring their students. They’re incredible facilitators of discussion and they’re more than simply being a content delivery system, right. They can do so much more in the classroom. So this title of better than YouTube was really this, this blunt statement of teachers have to acknowledge and celebrate that they are better than a stagnant video. Mm. And so rather than compete and make 1500 YouTube clips this year or compete and say, how am I going to add enough to my mini, to my mini lesson? You know, as a YouTube edited clip might do instead let’s partner with these incredible tools that we have access to and give ourselves the time to do what we do best, which is interact with students and foster discussions. So it was a really, really incredible project to work on. I’m so thrilled. It’s out

Sam Demma (26:07):
Love that. It’s awesome. And it’s, it’s so plainly obvious that all three of you have this burning passion for the work that you do. And I’m really curious to know how the heck do you balance teaching Chad and Ray and you know, Jeff, you can touch on this too. I know you’re not a classroom teacher, but I’m sure you’re balancing a ton of different things right now. How do you balance that with the work you’re doing and not get burnt out because I’m sure we can all agree that reaching out to teachers and educators right now and saying, Hey, we’d love to chat with you or, Hey, we have some ideas. The response you’re getting is that their hair is on fire. You know, like you just, you can’t can’t talk right now. How do you personally balance your own time to make it all work?

The Teach Better Team (26:46):
Yeah. Sam, I have to tell you that, you know, we have an incredible amount of educators that, that work with us to share the teach better mindset, right? Yes. I mean, if you look at the teach better team, there’s not only 22 plus people that are on the team, but then we have a huge collection of educators on our speakers network. We have guest bloggers, we have podcasters. We have people who help us design courses in the teach better academy. I mean, we really have built a network that we label our family and almost all of them, 99% of them are classroom teachers. And the reason that is, is because we, that classroom teachers are, are incredible, you know, or they’re working in schools as administrative leaders. But we’re better when we surround ourselves with good people. And so it’s not about, you know, that it’s not hard working two jobs, right?

The Teach Better Team (27:38):
Like, you know, right. For example, right now I’m physically in the classroom as a classroom teacher and also in with the teach better team. But it really is about trying to support educators holistically. And one of the elements that we all need is to be around positive solutions, seeking people who challenge us to be our best selves. And so whether it’s the, the struggle of keeping a calendar so that we can be hustling or all the time as effectively as possible or anything in between, you know I, I’m gonna let Jeff touch on this next, but one of the best things that Jeff Garas said to me very early on as I probably was feeling like my hair was on fire, you know, working multiple jobs is this phrase that he doesn’t like of when you get a job you love, you never work a day in your life. And he was like, it’s not true, Ray. It’s not true. When you get a job, you love, you work harder than you’ve ever worked before, but you love it. And I cannot emphasize that enough. We are constantly working probably in an unhealthy manner. We may not be the best people to go to for self care, but, but God, I love it. Jeff, don’t you love it.

The Teach Better Team (28:49):
I, I do. I agree with everything she just said. And, and I just, I just want to add, like, you know, you talked about the Sam, you mentioned teachers with, well, Ray kind of mentioned too with, you know, my hair’s on fire. I’m crazy. Right. Especially this year, it’s always like that, but even more so this past year, and Ray mentioned all the content, everything we’re creating, all the support pieces and all the resources we create. I think for us, a big piece is one, this kind of two pieces is one. We want teachers just to know that like, that we’re creating these things and we’re building these things even when your hair’s on fire. So when you’re ready for it, it’s here, right. It’s here for you to come. And it’s for us. Consistency has always been really, really important so that they know that we’re here.

The Teach Better Team (29:26):
Like, you know that your family’s there. The other piece is when a teacher says my hair is on fire. We like to say, okay, great. What’s causing the fire and what can we do to help you put it out? And then maybe try to put some pieces in place to make sure that it doesn’t catch fire again. Right? So we like, we wanna help teachers understand that we, you know, really mentioned the good people that we’re part of that we like to be part of that and be that family of, okay, if your hair’s on fire, we can help you put it out. We can help you prevent that. But, or if not, we can just be here when you’re ready. Right. When you’re ready to come up from, from, for air, from being underwater all year, we, we’re still creating these resources. We’re still building these things for you. We’re still creating this community for you. We’re still here for you. And I think that is, is a key piece to what we do and what we believe.

Sam Demma (30:10):
I’m gonna jump in just for one second and then pass it back over to rate, because I just thought of this. And it was kind of funny. I was gonna say, you know, if someone’s hair’s on fire and they don’t want help now you can tell them that they can come back in five months when they’re bald and you can give ’em a wig, right?

The Teach Better Team (30:24):
Exactly. If that’s what they need, then that’s that’s. And that’s what it is, right. That we we’ve. I say it all the time that like we’ve built everything with our, our, our company, by listening to the, our company, telling us what it needs to grow and our community about what they need us to do within our capacity of being able to do stuff for them. And that’s why, what we create and how we build and what we build is based around that.

Sam Demma (30:48):
Awesome. Love it.

The Teach Better Team (30:50):
No, I think Jeff said it wonderfully. I, the only thing I was gonna add in, you know, it’s so funny in terms of being around whenever someone needs something we launched in 2020 and administrative master remind, which is truly just a zoom call that happens twice on Tuesdays, every single week to create a safe space for administrative leaders, right. Educational leaders to talk shop, and kind of share their grievances and problem solve and hopefully take away resources. And it’s so funny because every single time someone joins, they’re like, Ugh, I of that. If I’m busy, I don’t have to be in this meeting, but the moment I need something, I know the meeting exists for me to like connect with my people. And I find that while that might be a good example of that, I, I really enjoy seeing that kind of holistically across multiple different capacities of things that the team tries to do to be accessible.

Sam Demma (31:43):
Brilliant.

The Teach Better Team (31:44):
And I, and I think they’re both hitting on something that we’ve built this company on, which is authentically and holistically help first. Mm. Right. Like if, if we’re helping educators, we win and they win and everyone can feel good about that. Yeah. and there are other aspects of our business of course, but one of the things I think has helped us over the last hair on fire craziness of 2020 has been, we made a purposeful shift to try to provide as much help as humanly possible when all of this started, you know, I think it was March of 2020 when everything shut it down. And we said, you have two options here, right? Like you can help, or you can do other things that aren’t necessarily helping. And, and we made the purposeful to authentically reach out to every single teacher. We knew every single school we work with in our entire network and family and in, in audience and just offer authentic help.

The Teach Better Team (32:48):
Mm. But that has been something as both of them have articulated very well. Jeff and Ray that I think has driven a lot of the work that we do on a daily basis and teach better team, whether it’s helping a school or a, a partner district we wanna help them before we do anything else and make sure that whatever we’re providing them is making, helping them meet their goals in their mission. And I think that’s like the, the lifeblood of everything we do. And I think that drives a lot of the work and decisions we make on a day to day basis.

Sam Demma (33:23):
I love that. I believe that as humans, we’re also shaped by significant emotional experiences and one that I know rings true to you, Chad is get the hell outta my classroom. And I’m really curious to know what does that mean to you? Can you share, you know, that story as if we’re on an elevator and, and you have 30 seconds to pitch it.

The Teach Better Team (33:46):
Yeah. I think every teacher can relate to that moment. I, I visually remember that moment where, how much, how long was the time? Just, I

The Teach Better Team (33:56):
Was just, I, Ray and I were connecting there cause I was laughing at the eye. Any of that, Sam thought you were gonna do this in 30 seconds.

The Teach Better Team (34:02):
No, listen. That was a, that was a visceral moment for me as a teacher where my students had become the enemy of myself as an educator. And I had become every single aspect of the teacher. I never wanted to be got it. I don’t think any, any teacher ever enters the class and their first year or their fifth year or their 20th year seeing students as the enemy. But that was a moment where it was me versus them. And I was in hundred percent survival mode. Yeah. And that was the moment I realized something had to change and I couldn’t change everything overnight, but I could do something better the next day. And I could do a lot of these changes and start thinking about my instruction differently. So that moment you know, and I do articulate that moment quite a bit when I’m talking about some of the changes that, that, that we embody, I’m gonna teach better team for classrooms, but that was a catalyst that allowed all of the other changes that eventually become the creation of the grid method, which we now get to share with schools and districts, the creation of the teach better team, which now has an expansive availability of resources that are helping students and educators across the country and beyond.

The Teach Better Team (35:17):
So that’s that moment, I think, resonates with every teacher in a, a room when I’m speaking and sharing that story. Every teacher has that moment where they feel like they’ve lost that spark. They’ve lost that passion and they never wanted to be here. So you have two choices, you just lay down and give up or you get better the next day. Mm I’m glad that I was able to get better the next day, which has now brought myself and, and to teach better team into fruition and in the ability to help others and increase our impact on a daily basis. That was way longer than 15 seconds. So

Sam Demma (35:56):
That’s totally okay. On the idea of challenges, because sometimes dealing with students can feel like a challenge. What do you think are some of the biggest challenges that exist in education right now? And what do you think the opportunities are on the other side of those challenges? Because solving them leads to some sort of opportunity. And I’m curious to know anyone can jump in here first.

The Teach Better Team (36:20):
I, I, I think the last year has demonstrated the amount of inequity that already existed in the educational world. I think the inequities that showed up due to lack of internet service due to home life of S students due to living situations due to you know, demographic stability or financial instability of, of families and students and, and everything that goes along with all of that. I think we’ve known for a really long time that those are problems in education, but because that we were, because we were bringing students into our classrooms and we could say sometimes falsely that because we were providing a space that we knew was safe and, and, and, and supportive that it was okay. It didn’t matter about these outside things because we could create this safe space, this sheltered space it was known that those things were problems and that in all the research, if you ever look at it fully supports that there’s a distinct difference between socioeconomic status and success for of a student and, and other aspects that are cultural in nature and things like that.

The Teach Better Team (37:34):
So I think what this did is it put all of that under a microscope. Mm. And it allow, and it forced us as educators, regardless of your role teacher, classroom aid, principal, superintendent. It forced us to address those needs and confront those needs in a way that was somewhat uncomfortable, probably, but that, it just really forced us to just realize that this is real. This is something our students are dealing with, and this is something that we cannot wait to address it needs to be addressed now. So I think from an instructional standpoint, I know we’ve helped a lot of schools address some of these things, utilizing mastery learning and giving them tools and ways to make the instructional prep is in the classroom, more equitable from a pedagogical standpoint and an instructional standpoint. But I also think it, it was a really great conversation starter of just because the kids are back in the classroom doesn’t mean all these other things are now gone. Cause we know they exist now. Like the elephant is in the room and we can see it. Now, the sheet has been lifted and it’s right there in the corner and we have to address it. And I think the biggest crime and the biggest worry I have is that we want to go back to what was, as opposed to going back to back, going back to an improved instructional setting so that every student can thrive and succeed in their classrooms.

Sam Demma (39:02):
Awesome. Yeah. That was a phenomenal answer. Anything to add Ray or Jeff?

The Teach Better Team (39:09):
You know, I think Chad like hit the nail on the head in terms of a huge fear that we all have, that we are all driving to be on the solution seeking side of, right. I mean, this is a, a necessary conversation. I think a, a smaller element, but one that is really in my face as we continue to host live videos, you know, taking questions from educators and, you know, like doing professional development opportunities. And, you know, I hear this in my own school that I working with my colleagues is this concept of the fact that educators have been filling their toolbox with, with, with resources over the past year and a half because of COVID right. We’ve all learned 15 new tech tools. We’ve all tried a hundred new strategies. And I think an, an additional layer here that I’d love to continue to challenge educators to seek support on is now becoming educated and better understanding when we go into a more familiar school system, when, you know, we’re all back in the classroom and masks may or may not be worn.

The Teach Better Team (40:08):
And we, you know, we all kind of transition, how are you gonna strategically best understand what’s in your toolbox and when, and how to implement them as effectively as possible goal. So, you know, obviously there’s a thousand problems with education. We’re all just doing our best to find the solution. But as you, as an educator are listening to this, I’d love to challenge each and every one of you, whether you are most passionate about a huge, huge problem in education that you wanna find a solution towards, or you just have something really small that you wanna take on to find solution for. There’s plenty of problems. So pick one and let’s all work together to try and find the right answer right away.

Sam Demma (40:43):
Love it. Awesome.

The Teach Better Team (40:46):
Jeff, I don’t know. I, I, I’m gonna, I’ll add just a little bit, it’s a separate problem and it might open up another can of worms. I’m not sure, but for, for me, one of the ones, and this has been a thing that we’ve noticed. I know Chad and Ray new being in this system, but that I learned very quickly after we got started in this is that I think a huge challenge that educators face and have to work within and are trying to change. And we’re seeing a lot of it is that we are trying to educate kids within a system that moves a half inch every 50 years and prepare them for a world that moves six miles every 30 seconds. And I don’t know if that actually adds up to what it is, but this very slow moving machine of the world of education and holding on to how it was and what it was and what worked for us.

The Teach Better Team (41:33):
And we’re trying to prepare kids for a future that is moving so fast right now. If you think about like technology growth over the last, just three years, and then you look at 10 years and you think about the fact that like, when I, you know, I’m not that old, but like when I was in elementary school, like the internet, wasn’t a thing yet. And now it’s literally the real world. Like it’s just this. And, and I think that’s a huge, that’s a much bigger problem, more of a systemic problem and everything like that, that we, that we have to address. But I think that’s a huge challenge that we continue to face. And I think that goes into, you know, we, we learned all these new tools and resources that we had to because we had to live in like this new world for the last year. And if we forget about that new world that we lived in, that is the world that our kids are growing up and whether we like it or not, that’s gonna cause us to just continue to be in this slow moving machine, trying to prepare kids for a machine that they can’t even catch. That’s one of my biggest worries.

The Teach Better Team (42:29):
Can we clarify Sam for all the educators listening, who can’t see us as we’re, you know, on, on having this conversation, Jeff is ancient in case any of you are wondering So old. So

The Teach Better Team (42:41):
I won’t, I won’t lie to you today. I, I went to the eye doctor and he said this like three times, he said, well, you know, yeah, with this, that blah, blah, blah. And you, you know, you’re getting really close to that, that age. And I’m like, what age doc? Whoa, that age. I’m like, what age? He’s talking about 40. I’m almost, I’m not, I’m close. That’s funny. That’s still not that old compared to Ray it’s old, Chad, it’s not as

The Teach Better Team (43:04):
Old. It’s like really far away from me. Thank God.

The Teach Better Team (43:08):
There was something earlier you were talking about like bubble sheets or whatever Scantrons. And I’m looking at Sam going, I don’t know Sam ever had to do Scantron

The Teach Better Team (43:15):
Sam. We know Scantrons.

Sam Demma (43:16):
I know Scantrons. I know Scantrons. When, when you, when you accidentally think question one is question two, when you write the whole

Speaker 5 (43:23):
Thing, every

Sam Demma (43:24):
Single question comes back wrong. And your teacher’s like, you got a F and I’m like, what?

The Teach Better Team (43:29):
Oh, wait, teach. If you just shift those up one. It’s actually all right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s,

Sam Demma (43:33):
That’s funny. No, that’s awesome. This has been a phenomenal conversation and you know, Jeff, your, your last question there about the system could take us on another whole hour long journey. I want to wrap this up on a final note and then we’ll give you an opportunity to share where everyone can connect with you. I want you to imagine you could go back in time and Jeff, you’re gonna have to travel the farthest because you’re the most ancient. But if you could, if you could go back in time and speak to your younger self having the knowledge that you have about education today, understanding that there’s still more to learn, of course. And you’re trying to learn more every single day, but if you could go back, you know, 20 years or to the first day you started teaching, if that applies to you, what would you tell your younger self? What advice would you give your younger self before getting into this work?

The Teach Better Team (44:29):
I think that’s a really, really challenging question. I do to say the first thing that came to mind for me, if I was to go back to my first year of teaching and give a piece of advice, it would really come down to something along the lines of you’re gonna grow faster than you thought. So just keep on tracking like every educator, whether they’re learning to be an educator at a university level, they’re in the classroom right now in the trenches, or they’re 30 years in is constantly finding hurdles and, and things that are stopping them. And we’re constantly brainstorming the next solution to the next problem. And I find that that can be extremely defeating. It can rock your confide. And so many times, I, I mean, I still have these moments so many times I sit back at the end of the day and I’m like, did I, did I do good work today?

The Teach Better Team (45:19):
Did, did I accomplish anything that I actually was trying to do? And I think the reality is is that when you surround yourself with people who are striving to be better, right, striving to grow, then you are, are able to look back. Whether it be look back at the day, look back at the week, look back at the year or an entire career and say, holy cow, we we’ve accomplished a ton and it’s not because I figured it out myself, but it’s because I surrounded myself with people who helped me figure it out. And so I think that would’ve been the biggest piece of advice I needed, cuz I was so nervous every day that I was gonna mess up a kid. And I think the reality is is that if you’re constantly carrying that mindset of growth, you’re always gonna be doing good work regardless of, you know, to what extent that actually is for that day.

Speaker 6 (46:09):
Love it.

The Teach Better Team (46:11):
I think I could piggyback on what race said actually. Cause I’m glad she went first actually for this question. I, I, I think something I used to see, I used to see instruction as a very transactional thing. I used to say a lesson or an experience either went perfect or I messed it up and it was very just like, I, I had to be perfect. Everything had to go perfect or it didn’t go good. It didn’t go well. And then I messed it up. Hmm. And I think as I evolved as an educator, when I look back on that, as I stopped shifting towards my performance in my sort of delivery of like a lesson and more the experience in the learning that was happening in my classroom, moving from more teacher-centered thoughts to more student-centered thoughts. I think that is something I wish I would’ve known earlier and focused on earlier.

The Teach Better Team (47:09):
And I also think, you know, as we kind of approach going back to this normal, I think a lot of teachers need to, to be reminded that it’s not about a kid being broken or behind it’s about focusing on growth, not gaps, right? So it’s about meeting kids where they are. And as long as we are growing them, we’re doing our job and we’re winning because if we look at education, as we made it, we, we failed or we passed based on some arbitrary thing that the system created or the grade level the kids supposed to be at. We’re gonna fail a lot more than we succeed. If we look at ourselves and at the educational system and go, listen, if we meet every kid where they’re at and grow them from there, we’re gonna be okay, regardless of if they’re five grade levels behind or one grade level behind, because a grade level’s an arbitrary understanding of where a kid’s supposed to be anywhere. If in education at its foundation, we just meet kids where they’re at and grow them in an engaging environment that’s safe and supportive and lets them thrive as themselves, as individuals, we will win. And that’s, I think the long term game in realiz, it I’ve had now that I wish I had when I was younger.

Sam Demma (48:33):
That is so powerful. And, and you mentioned the idea of focusing on the growth instead of the gaps and that hits home with me from an athletic background. There’s a awesome book. Titled I, I believe it’s catch them while they’re good. And it’s this idea that instead of giving feedback on someone’s you know, negative result, look for someone who did a great job and highlight what made that example. Great. So you let the other students save face or the other athletes save face and they still can say, oh, that’s what I’m aspiring towards. You know? Jeff ancient, Jeff, what, what, what advice would you give yourself

The Teach Better Team (49:11):
The time I had to go further back? No, I think I, I, this kind of touch, I kind of connects with both of those. I think the thing that I would tell my younger self is that you’re probably going to lose more than you win, but you’re gonna learn either way. Mm. And I had put similar to how Chad had put so much on, did the, his lesson go well or not? I put so much on what I was trying to be in that moment. And when that thing or that person that I thought I was supposed to be, or that was the only thing I was supposed to do, didn’t work. It just, it crushed me and destroyed me. And when it was after why I figured out that, that wasn’t what was important. It was the reasons behind why you were trying to do things and what you were trying to build and what you were trying to accomplish and trying to chase happiness that became more important. And we do it all the time where we learn from all my failures in the right when Chad and I started as a whole lot was let’s look back and see all the businesses that Jeff messed up and see if we can avoid those things. And so I think it’s, it’s similar. Like what Ray said is like, you’re gonna, you’re gonna learn and grow so much from all these times that you think it might have been a failure, but it’s really just an opportunity to learn.

The Teach Better Team (50:17):
Yep. I do just wanna put on record. We do pick on Jeff a lot, but I’m really proud since usually we pick on Chad and

The Teach Better Team (50:24):
I think it’s, I was gonna say, like, I

The Teach Better Team (50:26):
Think it’s crazy. Speak on Jeff today.

The Teach Better Team (50:28):
Can I pick on Chad one last time? No, I was gonna say that I thought what he was telling his younger self was brilliant, but I’m pretty sure his younger self would’ve walked away about halfway through. Cause it took so long. Like there’s this old guy talking about I’m out of here. That’s I know if I’m talking younger me, I gotta be like a couple words and done because I would’ve just been so

Sam Demma (50:46):
Awesome, amazing. This has been such a phenomenal conversation. Thank you. All three of you for, for taking the time to chat about this. I think what’s so inspiring for me as an interviewer and someone who’s listening and I’m sure is as inspiring for you, the person listening as well, is that everything we talked about, it’s like, it all comes back to that idea. That it’s about being student centric, which, and this is how we started this podcast, right? Everything we talked about is about being student centric. You know, filling more tools in your toolbox is so you can help your students, right? Figuring out what tools you need to use so you can help your students; making more equitable school systems is about helping the students. Like I love that through our entire conversation, the values of your, your work and your company came through in every answer you gave. And it just shows to go. It goes to show how much focus you have for the work you’re doing, how much passion and love you have for it. So keep doing amazing work. Where maybe one of you can share very quickly, where can the person listening, find you, where can they check out your program, buy your books, watch your videos, get in touch, or even make fun of Jeff.

The Teach Better Team (51:53):
Yeah, absolutely. Guys. There’s a lot of places that you can go and make fun of Jeff Gargas. So here, let me give you them all. No, to be honest, like we all are on social media. We’re all active. You can find us on Twitter, Instagram, boxer, Facebook, everywhere between, but it’s not about connecting with us. Right. We love when we connect with new people. I mean, geez, last night we were all on Twitter, connecting with new friends for an hour during a, you know, a Twitter chat, but it’s really about connecting with everyone else, all these other educators doing incredible work around the globe. So definitely go check out @teachbetterteam that is over on Twitter, Instagram, like I said everywhere. And you can also see all those details at teachbetter.com. But you know, we hope you connect with us and everyone that is a part of the teach better team, but there are so many incredible educators connected to us in small and large ways, doing really, really good work that we hope

The Teach Better Team (52:47):
it’s just the beginning of all the dots that you, you are collecting to continue to foster the type of life you wanna live. You know, as Sam, I think you said it perfectly, that we really believe in having that student centered mindset, but we also believe that it should exist without the expense of a teacher. We want you as a teacher to be supported and then hopefully have incredible experiences with students, but it really does begin with making sure that you are your best self as well. So let us help if we can. And if not, then we hope to connect with you in the future as we celebrate all the stuff that you guys are doing.

Sam Demma (53:22):
Amazing. Awesome. Chad, Jeff, thank you so much. Chad, Jeff and Ray, and the whole team who is not on the call. Thank you again for the work you’re doing. Thank you for showing up today and, and sharing some of your wisdom and some of the work that you’re doing in education that’s changing lives. I look forward to staying in touch and, and watching all the great work you guys do.

The Teach Better Team (53:42):
Thank you, Sam. Thanks for the work that you are doing. We appreciate you, man. Yeah. Appreciate it.

Sam Demma (53:46):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show; f you want meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with the Teach Better Team

February 19, 2022 by Sam Demma Education Consultant Founder and CEO Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Jackie Groat – Student Leadership Advisor, Teacher & Basketball Coach

About Jackie Groat

Jackie (@JackieGroat) is a Teacher, Coach, Sports Fan, and Outdoor Enthusiast who loves inspiring Leadership through action. Jackie is also involved in the Alberta Association of Students’ Councils and Advisors as the Social Media Director.

Connect with Jackie: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Henry Wise Wood High School

Calgary Board of Education

Alberta Association of Student Councils and Advisors (AASCA)

Alberta Student Leadership Summit (ASLS)

Canadian Student Leadership Association (CSLA)

Canadian Student Leadership Conference (CSLC)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. I am super excited about today’s guest. We have on the special Jackie Groat. She’s a good friend of mine. I met her over a year ago now. Back when COVID initially started, I spoke to one of her classrooms and we became friends.

Sam Demma (00:58):
We stayed in touch. Now I have the pleasure of interviewing on the podcast. Jackie is a teacher, a coach, a sports fan. She loves basketball and she’s an outdoor enthusiast. More formally, he works at Henry Wisewood high school with the Calgary Board of Education. She’s a basketball coach when we’re not in C technology teacher and student leadership advisor. Fun fact. She is also the social media director of the Alberta association of student councils and advisors. And she is one of the reasons why myself and two other young powerhouses are a part of their student leadership conference this year. It is my honor and pleasure to interview Jackie today. We touch on so many awesome ideas and topics, and I hope you enjoy this as much as I do. And I will see you on the other side. Jackie, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing the reason behind why you got into education?

Jackie Groat (02:00):
Hi Sam, thanks for inviting me. This is a great opportunity to come join you. So yeah, my name’s Jackie Groat. I’m a teacher in Calgary, Alberta, and I have been teaching for, let me think here, I guess it’s been eight years now. I, I started out in Kelowna, BC, and then I was in a private system there for a couple years and had a lot of opportunities to explore different things. I didn’t have to teach any one subject and so I, I built quite the, quite the laundry list of experience and was invited to come to Calgary. And so when I came here, I started out as a math teacher and that’s kind of where I am by trade. My degree is in mathematics and biology. And from there, kind of some, some knowledge that kind of hit the ground saying, oh, you did robotics.

Jackie Groat (02:54):
Oh, you did this. Oh, you did that. And so I’ve kind of bounced around a little bit; whether it’s been mathematics, science, like I said, robotics and engineering to teaching architecture and 3D design and computer science. So all over the map. But my heart and soul lands with leadership. It really, really is my heart and soul. It’s it’s the thing that I’m the most passionate about and that kind of stems from even being a teenager. And I was on student council in high school. And at that time I was aware of the Canadian student leadership conferences. Unfortunately I wasn’t able to, to make it in my grade 12 year, but I, since then had an opportunity when I started my education career to get involved with the Canadian Student Leadership Conference that was held in Kelowna so that was my first experience. And yeah, and I just, those experiences have really shaped where I am and who I am and so my passion is about teaching others. Not just a content subject area, but just to be better humans; to be empowered and driven. That’s kind of where I’m at.

Sam Demma (04:06):
Where does the, where does the passion come from, did when you were growing up and when you were in student council, did you have a teacher that pushed you in this direction? Your, your passion for mathematics and science could have led you down so many different, why education? Like, did you just want to be a teacher? Did you, did you know it from a young age or like what led you down that path?

Jackie Groat (04:30):
I’m gonna say life led me down that path being resilient. So when I was starting grade 10, I was in a car accident that put me in a coma for a short, a period of time. Oh, wow. Coming into my grade tenure, it was a huge challenge. It was if it wasn’t for my teachers that I had in, in my grade 10 year I don’t know where I, you know, how I would’ve gone through my education, but yeah, I, I had to learn how to study. I had like a five minute memory for a short period of time. I was going to school half days alternating days for the first few months. And it was just teachers that really, really took a care and an interest that I, people I had made connections with in high school that, that checked in on me that made sure I had what I needed.

Jackie Groat (05:20):
And so of course through my grade 11 and 12 years there were friends of course, but you know, just that, that passion to like, keep, keep going. And of course some of that comes intrinsically, right? Yeah. but I was a basketball player and that was a hard thing for me because in that year I couldn’t play basketball. Hmm. And my coach was really, really great when I was alone out to physically get back on the court. He, he basically said to me, he’s like, look, you’ve lost a whole year of skills. He’s like, you’re gonna come. You’re gonna manage all my team. You’re gonna get back into the swing of things. He’s like, you’re not even gonna worry about tryouts. He’s like, you just, you have a spot on the team. And so from there getting to build those leadership skills there, having them mimicked working with coaches in grade 12 and getting connected, like I said, on, on student council and being able to help others kind of just started that journey.

Jackie Groat (06:16):
And ironically, when I went to university was not an intention to be an educator. Mm. I went in thinking I’m gonna go into engineering. That was my plan engineering. And clearly that’s not where I am. Just kind of didn’t play out in, in my cards for what I wanted, but I learned a lot. And you know, just thinking about the people that how were most impactful for me and the, the experiences that I had. And then of course, the people that were telling me, man, you’re really good at like sharing information. You’re really good at teaching this skill. You’d be great at this. And I started helping coach little kids, and again, same thing was said to me. So I started on the education path later in my life and here I am and loving it and I wouldn’t trade it for anything else.

Sam Demma (07:06):
Ah, that’s amazing. And when you think back to those teachers you had, when you were in grade 10 that really supported you and helped you along the way, like, what was it exactly that they did if you had to pinpoint some things that had a huge impact on you that you think other teachers or educators listening could learn from? Is there anything that kind of comes to mind when you think about that year?

Jackie Groat (07:31):
Probably just conversation, just the willingness and the openness to just say, Hey, how are you doing today? You know, where, you know, what is it that you need today? What is gonna make your day just a little bit brighter? And it didn’t necessarily have to be about that partic particular subject. But just, just genuinely seeing me for, for where I was at and wanting to connect and, and how, of course I’m sure that these are not teachers for me in high school, started in grade nine in Saskatchewan. So I did know these teachers a little bit beforehand. Wasn’t like I was a brand new face to the school. Yeah. And so that, that was good, right. Because I, you know, they knew me as a student in classes or on the basketball or on the track and, you know, on the track and field team. So knowing that I had what potential I did in interests, they met me, you know, where I was at. Nice. So conversation just opened the conversation.

Sam Demma (08:35):
Ah, I like that. It’s a good, it’s a good piece of feedback. And fast forward, you know, it’s a to right now as you’re a teacher, I’m sure those are things that you strive to do. How do you think during this crazy time that we can still make students feel, you know, heard and appreciated? Is it about conversation? Is it about maybe if it’s not face to face, like sending them an email, like how do you ensure that your kids still feel seen, heard and appreciated during a tough time? Like, like COVID,

Jackie Groat (09:03):
Yeah, that’s a big one right now, Sam, for sure. And we know that mental health is a challenge. I think it’s about recognizing that there are a lot of pressures and we’re used to do dealing with the academic pressure that, you know, I have so many assignments to get done. I have these due dates. I’m expected to meet certain grades and while the pressure is coming at them from their teacher, they’re also getting those pressures at home different home dynamics, different expectations. And then those students also have their own personal pressures that they put on themselves. And then we blanket all of this right now with the pandemic that we’re in and you know, that adds anxiety and, and all so much unknown. And so I think it’s about again, same thing checking in and having that conversation and you see that kid walking down the hall or they walk into your classroom and just genuinely saying, hi, you know, tell me, tell me a story.

Jackie Groat (10:01):
What, what happened in your day yesterday? What was your win yesterday? You know, what are you looking forward to in this week? And sometimes you might get that response back. That’s like, I have nothing to look forward to or, you know, it’s kind of, it’s kind of jury. And, and so then you open that conversation to, okay. Why do you feel that way, you know, is, is there something that we could pick out that maybe do you have a goal that you wanna work on? Or, you know, how, how can I help, help you turn that around knowing that, you know, we can’t take on our students all of their problems for those educators that are out out there. We, you know, that’s a, that’s a fine line. We have to be careful that we’re not taking that to too much to heart and home with us because it can, can happen. But what can you do when you’re in those walls together and how can you give them that motivating message to go? Okay, all we have to do is find one thing that you can look forward to one thing that you’re gonna work on, or it’s celebrating those, those wins and going, you know what, we’re, we’re just gonna take one day at a time.

Sam Demma (11:08):
Hmm. No, I love that. And at what point in your journey did you decide to get involved in the Canadian student leadership association with and with the student leadership association association?

Jackie Groat (11:21):
Yeah, you’re right on both of them. I’m not gonna lie. I’m a little ambitious and people who know me will laugh. They feel like, oh, yeah. But when I, when I started on my journey into the education world, when I was at university and doing my practical I had an, an opportunity to connect with norm Bradley, who many people across Canada will recognize that name in leadership. And I got the opportunity to sit on the committee and, and help out where I could. And so I started out with the social media side of things when we were putting together that conference and going, okay, how are we gonna connect? And of course it, it, I just remember leadership being such a huge part of my life in school. And like I said, on the student council helping bring spirit week to our school motivating my graduating class to put together not just a, a regular yearbook, but to put, put together a video yearbook on a compact disc.

Sam Demma (12:27):
Oh my goodness. What is that?

Jackie Groat (12:28):
Yeah, that’s okay. I’m giving away my age. Am I no seriously though, but just those things. And I thought, you know, this is an opportunity where I can get involved and do those things for our future generations. And so I, I got on there with the social media side instead of compact discs and helped out there. And so that was that, that opportunity. And I’ve continued with social media in the high schools that I’m at or have been at both past and present. And I guess I’m gonna say how long ago, maybe a couple years ago it was, I was approached by a member of the Alberta student leadership association or council said, yeah, Hey, you know, we need to have a director for our social media side for our province. And I heard you’d be great at it. And so I said, sure, pick me, pick me and hopped on board there and, and I’m enjoying it. So we’re getting that up and running and it’s, it’s going okay. It’s going. Alright.

Sam Demma (13:31):
That’s awesome. If you were forced to convince another teacher, why leadership is so important, what would you tell them like for maybe there’s someone listening, who knows that leadership is great and impactful, but hasn’t fully bought into the idea that it’s very important for students growth and their learning. Like, what would you say to convince them?

Jackie Groat (13:52):
Oh, wow. You know, the irony of this conversation is I, I actually just had a conversation with a dear friend and colleague on the weekend saying to me exactly that Hey, I’m considering, you know, taking on the leadership program at my school, tell me more. And of course, I’m, I like lit up and I was super excited because I’m like, yes, more people in leadership, more people to run this program. Yeah, it’s important because it’s what drives the culture at your school. It’s what makes your students want to be there. So you can have those students and maybe they’re not the strongest academically or maybe they’re your top straight a students, but they’re, they’re those kids that you wanna, you, you wanna grab and pull into the school and say, Hey, you know, we can make this, this place, our own, we can make this place somewhere where we almost don’t wanna go home from, because we love our school that much. And so leadership is wanting that they’re the home of the warriors or they’re the home of the Trojans or whatever, whatever their, their home motto is. Awesome. And so to be a part of that is huge.

Sam Demma (15:05):
Sorry. I’m so sorry. I think my wifi cut out right after you said the leadership is, is,

Jackie Groat (15:11):
Oh,

Sam Demma (15:11):
It’s okay. I’m gonna edit this part. But if you wanna, just about today, continue.

Jackie Groat (15:16):
Yeah. Oh, just being a part of leadership is huge. Like just that connection and helping, helping those students to learn those skills where they can motivate others and take those skills off into you life in, whether it be their, their job their family life, their friendships and just, yeah. Growing as citizens. It’s awesome.

Sam Demma (15:43):
I love that. That’s so good. And when you think about the years that you’ve been teaching teaching, I’m sure there’s been student transfer, whether you’ve seen it first, like firsthand firsthand, or you’ve seen it 20 years later, maybe you haven’t yet, but students maybe come back and share notes and tell their teachers how big of an impact they’ve had in those stories of those stories, which ones of them stick out to you. And if there’s any personal ones you can change the name just to keep the kids private.

Jackie Groat (16:19):
Yeah. I had one student who she was really, really a strong leader and you know, being in leadership in school really empowered her to learn, to stretch outside. And she got involved. She was always involved in different clubs or different activities throughout her, throughout the city, but she you know, she decided that she could take on more. And so in those groups and, and committees, she kind of took on a lead, were role in a community practice and they, they put together a thing, a proposal on food securities, and she’s managed to go from, you know, just kind of being the participant to helping lead other students her age, maybe slightly older, maybe slightly younger, but develop a charter, a food at securities charter within the city. She worked together with a number of students to, to write a book promoting, you know, what it is to, to, to do with food security.

Jackie Groat (17:26):
And it was really cool because then I got a email and then invite to her book launch. So that was kind of a really warm, inviting experience. And it’s, you know, it’s not something that we get a lot of as educators, those, those thank yous. And sometimes we’ll get that student that comes back to us years later and says, Hey, you know, I, you know, I really learned a lot in your class and I really appreciate, you know, what you did for me. And when those happen, we have to cherish those moments. And I had another student this year reach out to me who graduated, Hmm. About three years ago, I guess it would be. And they’re pursuing their, they’re finally choosing to pursue their post-secondary education and kind of reached out and said, Hey, you know my time in your class meant a lot.

Jackie Groat (18:18):
I got a lot of experiences out of it. I actually took this particular student on a field trip and it was a small group. There’s only four students that were able to go on this field trip. And that student reached out and said, can you write a letter of reference for me, I’m applying for this scholarship. And it had to do with humanitarian work and what they had done. And so, yeah, it’s kind of an honor for, for when that happens, students reach out and they remember who you are and, you know, especially it’s two and three years later. Right.

Sam Demma (18:52):
So true. And if you could, could speak to first year educator, Jackie, and give your younger self advice, what would you, what would you tell yourself?

Jackie Groat (19:04):
Oh, what would I tell myself? There’s lots of time. You don’t have to do everything the first year. You don’t have to take on everything in the first year. Yeah. it comes one step at a time and the idea is sometimes you can be overflowing with ideas and you see so much of what you wanna do, and it feels daunting and overwhelming. But I’ve learned to make lists and write them down. And, and not, I guess I shouldn’t even say it as so much as to do lists, but goal lists. And like, as those ideas come or there’s things that you wanna work on it can feel overwhelming to try and tackle everything at once, but it’s, it’s, it’s gratifying to look back at that list that you’ve made and go, Hey, look at all the things I have done over this time. And just go, you know what? I’m gonna work on it. You know, one thing at a time

Sam Demma (20:01):
You made it

Jackie Groat (20:02):
I’ll get to the end.

Sam Demma (20:03):
No, it makes sense. You made it sound like there’s a distinction between a goal list and a to-do list. I’m curious to know in your mind, what is that? What is the difference?

Jackie Groat (20:14):
I think with the goal list, it’s more about, it’s something that’s, you know, going to, it takes some layers of work.

Sam Demma (20:21):
Got it

Jackie Groat (20:21):
Got, right. There’s some revisions that are gonna go in there. A to-do list is, I think of more as like, you know, your

Sam Demma (20:28):
Quick laundry. Oh

Jackie Groat (20:30):
Yeah. The laundry list, like, oh, got, do laundry tomorrow or yeah. Better get those Simon’s marked by tomorrow or whatever. Right. Whereas like, you know, that goal is things it’s like for example, right now I’m working on wanting to put together a social media calendar so that I have this calendar each year that I can take a look at and I know, okay, in October, these are the things that I wanna hit. This is, these are the major events. These are the, the things that we celebrate in October what happens in November. So putting those things together, because not only is that helpful from me, right. But it’s something that I can leave as a a legacy or a pass on and share to other educators, which is a huge thing in our world. We do a lot of sharing of resources don’t ever reinvent the wheel.

Sam Demma (21:21):
It’s already there. Just ask it’s

Jackie Groat (21:23):
Already there. Just make it better, just make it better and share.

Sam Demma (21:26):
Okay. And if someone does wanna share with you or take from you, what would be the best way for them to reach out?

Jackie Groat (21:32):
Best way would be through email, you can find me through the Calgary board of education at jrgroat@cbe.ab.ca. You can also find me through the Alberta association of Student Councils and Advisors or AASCA, and we’re on the web as well at www.aasca.org and you can find me there as well.

Sam Demma (21:59):
Awesome. Awesome. Jackie, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate it. And I look forward to looking at all the different things you complete on your goal list.

Jackie Groat (22:08):
Thanks Sam. Oh, my goal is it’s. It’s constantly, constantly going right. You tick one off and you add two more. Yeah.

Sam Demma (22:15):
Sounds good. Sounds good. All right. See you, Jackie.

Jackie Groat (22:18):
Take care Sam.

Sam Demma (22:19):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise, I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jackie Groat

February 19, 2022 by Sam Demma Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock – Teachers at Ecole Plamondon School

About Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock

Janessa (@JanessaNevill) and Hailey (@haileycorinne13) are two extremely passionate educators from a small rural school in Alberta – Ecole Plamondon School. We met at a teachers convention and I thought it was very fitting that we bring them on the podcast today to share a little bit about their stories in education.

Connect with Janessa: Email | Twitter

Connect with Hailey: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Ecole Plamondon School Website

Napanee District Secondary School Website

Education Programs at Brock University

The Great Gingerbread House Project

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Hailey, Janesa. Thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator Podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. It’s actually the first time that I’ve had two people on the same interview. So you’re like breaking a Guinness world record here. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself, both of you and sharing how you got into education.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (00:20):
Awesome. Thank you so much, Sam, for having us. We’re really excited to be here. Actually one of the things we’re excited to talk about is how teaching kind of brought us together as friends too, but I’ll start by introducing myself. I’m Hailey Babcock. I’m originally from Ontario. I did my teaching degree at Brock university and then I moved out here to Alberta and I’m now teaching high school English.

Sam Demma (00:41):
Nice.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (00:43):
Hi I’m Janessa. I’m sorry, I’m nervous. As you can tell. I teach junior high currently, but I’ve been teaching everything; I’ve taught from grades one to grade nine and all subjects. And I just, you know, got into this work because I just wanted to make a difference and I wanted to be a role model for young people. Also. I, I just totally loved going to school and I wanted to do it forever.

Sam Demma (01:10):
Nice

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (01:12):
Job for me. Yeah, I just love to share my love learning with others. So

Sam Demma (01:16):
Love that. So good. That’s so cool. I remember the first podcast I ever did. I was freaking nervous. So I’m with you on that one and you’re not alone with educators. So many people that I’ve interviewed are, are nervous and, and nerves really all they mean is that you care, right. If, if you’re not nervous to do something, then you probably should stop doing it. So I appreciate you for stepping outta your comfort zone and pushing yourself. So how did teaching actually bring you you together though? I don’t actually know the story yet. And I’m curious to hear.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (01:46):
Yeah. So when I moved out here to Alberta, I started my job at a cold school and I met Janessa and at the time I was just, you know, crazy busy trying to figure out my first year of teaching, which is a blur. I’m sure most teachers can feel that. But we just, you know, throw the years we started talking a little bit more, we both teach French as a second language. So we kind of collaborated a little bit together, came up with some ideas and eventually we just ended up hanging out all the time and becoming best friends.

Sam Demma (02:15):
That’s so cool. That’s awesome. That’s amazing. And along your journey in teaching, you’ve both been doing it for a while now. I’m sure are things have changed. Things are a little different these days. What are some of the challenges that you’re currently faced with and how are you striving to try and overcome them?

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (02:32):
Yeah, absolutely. So obviously this year is quite different. It’s also quite different from last year as well. Just because, you know, last year when we were still trying to figure out how to teach online with go it was a little bit different now we kind of have the hang of it a little bit more and we are actually very lucky at our school for the most part. We are in the building, which is fantastic. Nice. But no cases so far, so far. That’s

Sam Demma (02:55):
That’s good. That’s good.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (02:57):
That’s awesome. But yeah, we just realized that you know, the restrictions are you know, pretty difficult for the kids to remember, you know, putting face masks on sanitizing, hands, that kind of stuff. We also noticed there’s been some frequent absenteeism. So whenever a student, you know, has a sore throat, they can’t come in for 10 to 14 days. So that also makes it quite difficult. And the other big thing I think for me is just having like less interactions, less, it just doesn’t feel as welcoming, you know, like we really are trying to push that, but all of these boundaries and restrictions have really put a damper on mental health. I would say for students and staff. Definitely.

Sam Demma (03:33):
Yeah. Well, so relatable. I, I wholeheartedly agree you anything to add there or facing the very similar of their challenges.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (03:40):
Very similar. Yeah. I mean, just like the biggest difficulty for me is there’s less opportunities for meaningful hands on and fun kind of interactive things we can do just cause of restrictions. Like I teach math and I love to cook with the kids and I love

Sam Demma (03:55):
To do

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (03:56):
Yeah. And I love to do hands on. Like HandsOn is very important like that. There’s lots of sanitizing, lots of protocols involved and it’s hard. So

Sam Demma (04:06):
I’m curious, how do you integrate cooking into math? You just like, you just peak my curiosity and I feel like it’s something interesting you could share.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (04:15):
I, if you, like, when I taught grade, well, I’ve taught grade 6, 7, 8 math in the last few years actually to the same group of kids, I’ve just followed them.

Sam Demma (04:23):
Nice.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (04:24):
So in grade six we did gingerbread houses. So we you know, manipulated recipes with with equivalent fractions and things like that. Okay. You know, obviously the gingerbread, we built houses and we talked about area and perimeter and then they just had fun and decorated it.

Sam Demma (04:41):
And that’s so cool. I remember that was fun. I remember being in elementary school, thinking to myself that math was the most boring subject, but I didn’t have a teacher who helped us build gingerbread house to teach us areas, area perimeter. So that’s really cool. I like that. Thanks for sharing. Yeah,

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (04:58):
I know. Oh, sorry. I know ju we fractions with like M and Ms. That different colors and stuff too. Super cool. Sensitive fractions of like you know, Skittles and smart use and things like that. Or I could actually do that this year. Cause I would just give them like their whole pack of Skittles and I didn’t have to touch it. So that was good. But like I missed being able to make pizzas for fractions. I like pizza.

Sam Demma (05:21):
I like, you always see the pizzas in the math books, like cut up and use as examples, but you’re taking it to a whole new level making a real pizza. So I love that. Yeah, but I think it’s really cool that what brought us together was the teacher convention. And I’m curious to know, like, is that something that you guys always look forward to every single year and, and what did you learn from it? Did you take anything that you found really helpful that you might want to share with the audience?

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (05:46):
Me personally this year, I found it was phenomenal mainly just because it was just a little different, you know, we didn’t have to drive up to Edmonton. You know, we got to stay at our homes and whatnot, but I also found that the variety was a little bit different this year. I was kind of excited to see. There was a lot of like motivational speakers, a lot of individuals who have you know, excelled in like the amazing race and all that kind of stuff. Just all these different challenges. And so it was really awesome to see all of these people who have overcome so much kind of talk about what they’ve done and how it’s helped them with COVID. So I don’t, I thought it was really good this year, too.

Sam Demma (06:25):
Cool. Yeah.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (06:26):
We kinda tended to go to a lot of the, the motivational speaker type things. I saw a lot of that and it was, it was good. It was like, I don’t know. It was, it was nice despite, you know, given we’ve had such a challenging year, it was nice to just hear some really good stories. So, and we got to spend the whole time together, so it’s great.

Sam Demma (06:42):
Yeah. And, and we met each other, you know, it was now we’re on this podcast because of it. No, that’s awesome. That’s so cool. I know it’s, it’s difficult to teach right now because a lot of your colleagues, like some people that you might see across the province right now, you may see them for like two years. Right. And I don’t know about you, but I’m a hands and I’m a hugging person. And I like to like, you know, give high fives and hugs and say hi to my friends and family and not being able to do that is sometimes difficult. And I would argue not only with colleagues, but also with students, you know, giving a kid a pat on the back or a high five is such a huge way to show them that your support, how do you think we can still make students feel, you know, heard, seen, and appreciated that during this challenging time? Is it just about checking in on them virtually or what can we do to still replicate that feeling?

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (07:30):
Absolutely. well, one of the things that genes and I talk about a lot is just humanizing ourselves, you know, allowing students to know that it’s okay to make mistakes. You know, we all go through challenges in our lives. And even just the whole idea of just being there for them and letting them know that yeah, we have, you know, mental health concerns too, that we go through as well and just reminding them that they’re not alone. And the one thing that I have noticed that kind of gave me a lot of hope when everything kind of started with COVID was seeing how much the kids still relied and needed those interactions. So even though they weren’t able to high five, their friends and they couldn’t sit right next to them, you could totally tell how happy they were just to be back together. And after summer, like, it was just amazing to see the kids kind of find a way through the restrictions to still, you know, be themselves and to still be excited to be here.

Sam Demma (08:24):
Amazing. Oh, I love that. And Janese, you’re saying elbows now. Everyone’s elbows tapping

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (08:30):
Elbows, air hugs. Yeah. Air fists, fist bumps, air hugs. Yeah.

Sam Demma (08:38):
I guess I guess we’re bringing rock, rock paper scissors back. Yeah. Because everyone can play that right now. That’s awesome. Exactly. Very cool. And over the, over the careers you’ve both had in teaching, I’m sure you’ve seen student transformations. Now, every educator I talk to says, you know, one of the reasons that they love teaching is because you have the impact to influence a young person’s mind that could eventually change their life. And you know, you can’t solely say that one person’s responsible for changing a student’s life. Like they have to take the action, but you can influence their thoughts and actions, which is such a powerful responsibility. And sometimes you don’t see the impact for 20 years. Sometimes you see it the next morning. It just, you, you never really know how it’s gonna show up. And I’m curious to know in both of your careers, have you witnessed any student transformations that have been really inspiring to you? And the reason I’m asking is because someone else might be listening, thinking, wow, like I feel really burnt out. I forget why I’m even in teaching. I don’t even know why I’m doing this anymore. Maybe I’m gonna quit soon. And sometimes hearing a story of transformation might spark someone’s passion or remind them why they got into this. And if it’s a serious story, you know, you can name the student, Bob or Sarah, totally change the name just to keep it private.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (09:54):
Yeah, absolutely. There was one near the beginning of the year that I really started talking about there’s this one individual will name him, Tom. Tom, I started teaching him in grade nine and he was just very, you know, came from a difficult home. You could tell that I don’t know how else to say this. There was a lot of like negativity in the home, a lot of like racial slurs, homophobia, all that kind of stuff. And this individual had just a lot of problems with like anger management, dealing with his emotions, not really being able to connect to his peers well and not understanding how to regulate, you know, when he is angry and whatnot. So for the first like year or two, him and I would just completely butt heads. And he’s also one of those students who, who likes to be left alone unless he has questions.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (10:39):
And I’m one of those teachers who likes to check in on everybody. So we definitely butt heads quite often. Yeah. Often we had, you know, our difficulties multiple times sitting down with myself and him and the principal, just trying to figure things out. And he was online for the first two months, this year for online teaching. And then when he came back in November completely different kid, I swear. It was absolutely amazing to see he came back completely respectful. He would come in and like compliment us. He talked to me about how he, he didn’t realize how how much of an influence I was in terms of like English teaching and that kind of stuff. And he even said that, you know, he missed seeing my face every day and that’s one of the reasons he was coming back. You know, just seeing that transformation was fantastic. He completely changed his mindset. He’s growing up up, and he’s also recognizing the individuals in his life who have kind of pushed him into that perspective. And I’ve seen him thank multiple teachers in the school. Like it’s, it’s beautiful to see really

Sam Demma (11:33):
That’s so cool. That’s so awesome. Ands. How about yourself?

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (11:37):
Well, I have a, sort of a unique role at my school. I actually only teach like less than half of the time. But I I am this, we call it the student services team coordinator here. Nice. So I I guess deal with inclusive ed needs and you know, referrals and I coach and mentor students and teachers and ensure, you know, accommodations are in place for kids who need it and all that kind of stuff. Nice. So I get to work with like, we have, we’re a K to 12 school, so I get to work with everybody. So it’s, it’s awesome. Like some days I’m in kindergarten and then I will be in grade eight and then later on I will grade four and nice. And because I only teach such a small bit, it makes scheduling weird. So every year I literally, I teach something different every year. It’s like, whatever there is needed to be taught it’s mine just because it’s like, so as a, as a result, I actually like the current class I taught I’m teaching right now. I, I taught them in grade one grade, two grade, six grade seven grade eight, and I’ll probably go with them to grade nine.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (12:39):
So yeah, I I’ve seen the growth and the change cause I’ve been there, the whole journey kind of thing. And it it’s cool. Cause my first year here I taught grade six. And then a few years ago that class graduated and they asked me to BDMC for their, so it was just like, okay, really cool to grow up. And just the people that they become. I love it. I don’t know if I’d go anywhere else. I, I have it pretty good in the house.

Sam Demma (13:10):
That’s awesome.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (13:15):
So nervous for that too. So

Sam Demma (13:17):
No, that’s so good. I love that. No, that’s amazing. And I have to ask when you were both students, did you have teachers in your life who had a huge impact on you that kind of inspired you to get into teaching? And if you remember their names, which most people do who were they, so you can all or them, but then also share what was it that they did that had such an impact on you so that other educators can try and replicate that for their own students?

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (13:44):
Absolutely. well, one of the things that I find when I speak with teachers is I feel like they’re usually one of two types of teachers, usually they’re the, you know, straight a students loved school, came back to teach school or they didn’t necessarily have a great schooling experience. And I was kind of on the latter side, I didn’t really like school. I didn’t have have good grades, you know, I didn’t have a lot of friends. And then when I got to grade seven, I had a teacher named Manam Kelly. I don’t remember her first name, unfortunately, but she, she slowly kind of explained to me that, you know, like I, I have potential and I need to push myself and you know, I am loved and cared for. So we kind of got a good relationship there. I started, you know, being more confident in myself, but then it wasn’t really until grade 11 that I found my true passion, which is English language and writing, you know, poetry, short stories.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (14:35):
And that came directly a creative writing course. I had a grade 11 teacher. Her name was Shalene Kelsey. She is still, I believe working at NDSS in nap Ontario. And she I’m sure she remembers, but she was a part-time guidance counselor and part-time English teacher. And I was pretty much wherever she was. She loved quotes. She loved you know, digging deeper into words and I just connected with her and I meshed with that and I realized that, you know, writing and reading is something that I’m good at and that I like doing. And I kind of push myself further and my confidence just blossomed. So she’s big on the, and now I teach high school English, so

Sam Demma (15:13):
Yeah. That’s awesome. Very cool. That Janessa, how about yourself?

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (15:17):
Yeah, for sure. My favorite teacher, I guess I would say I had a few of them in high school. I was really into my math and science and except for physics. I didn’t like physics cuz it’s hard. So my physics teacher’s name was Mr. Dick or is Mr. Dick he’s still around? Yeah, he he was awesome. He, I was that kid that would show up early cause my mom was a teacher she’d dropped me off at the school when she would go to school and I would go straight to him and be like, Hey, help me with physics. Like every day. And now I’m like, oh man, I was that kid that showed up every day. Like if, if I had kid, you know, when I’m trying to prep in the morning and get my coffee, like if I had a kid show up every day and I’m like, help me with my work. I don’t know, man. So I was that person and he did and he got me through it and got me through the diploma. And it’s interesting now though, cuz my colleague and friend is I carpool with her every day is his wife. We together now.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (16:14):
Mr. Dick still teaches at J Williams in Laish that’s where I was born and raised and I still live here. And so we still could see each other at, you know, a division conferences and stuff. Sometimes we hang out in social groups, so I’m friends with him now. So it’s, it’s cool. It, it, it’s neat living in a small town and keeping those connections, I guess still trying to figure out that small town life. Yeah. Yeah. It’s good though. But he kind of inspired me to go. I actually, I wasn’t gonna be a teacher at first. I wanted to actually be a pharmacist and in the end I’m so glad I’m not, cuz that would be really boring. But I, yeah, he and my other, my chem and my bio teacher inspired me to go to school for science. So I do have a bachelor of science first and then education. I kind of fell on when pharmacy didn’t work out, which thank goodness. But yeah, so

Sam Demma (17:08):
That’s awesome. Very cool. Yeah. And if you had to narrow it down to something, both of you, something your teacher did specifically that had a huge impact on you, what would that specific thing be? Was it that they were willing to help? Was it that they always looked out for you? Like what did they do specifically

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (17:27):
For me? I think it was the fact that Shelene just recognized that we come to school with our own problems. You don’t as necessarily know what goes on in student lives. So she, she was one of the only teachers that really truly, you know, checked in every day to see how I was doing. She knew when my basketball games were, she knew, you know, if stuff was going on at home with mom and dad, like it was just that willing to connect, willing to understand at being on that same level. You know? And I think that’s one of the things that I try to focus on as a teacher is doing the same thing for my students is allowing them to know that there is someone there on their level who, who really cares about them, wants to hear about them. If students ask me to go to hockey game, I’ll go, you know, and I think that’s really those relationships, those connections. That’s what she gave to me.

Sam Demma (18:12):
Cool.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (18:13):
I could just say the same. Yeah. Just, they just made me feel welcome and you know, they wanted me to be there. They wanted me to be successful and yeah.

Sam Demma (18:22):
Awesome. Really super

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (18:24):
Appreciative that, and

Sam Demma (18:25):
That sounds, that sounds great. And now you have a reason both to view, to reach out to those teachers and say, Hey, I mentioned your name on this podcast. You should check it out and you’ll probably make both of their days.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (18:38):
Funny enough, Shalene, Kelsey just added me on Instagram yesterday, so woo.

Sam Demma (18:43):
That’s awesome. So good. So if you could travel back in time and speak to your younger self when you just started teaching and like in part advice, knowing what you know now and all the wisdom you’ve gained over the past, you know, how many years you’ve been teaching, what would you tell your younger self? What advice would you have given to first year Hailey and first year Janessa?

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (19:06):
Well, I think mine might be a little different cause I’m only in here four here, so still pretty, pretty new, but that’s okay. I would definitely say just, just trust yourself, trust your instincts. It’s okay to not feel okay. Reach out when you need it. And my big thing as well is obviously it’s really important to have all aspects of your teaching abilities, very strong, but again, number one is relationships. That’s what I would say to myself is just make, make those relationships, those connections with the kids and then move forward with the teaching.

Sam Demma (19:37):
Awesome. Love that.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (19:40):
She said relationships, connection. That’s that’s it for me basically. Well, that’s not it, but you know, yeah. It’s very important.

Sam Demma (19:49):
I love it. Okay, cool. Awesome. And if someone wants to reach out to you and we can group you two together, I guess. If someone wants to reach out to both of you, what would be the best way to get ahold of you? Should they email? Like what email can we give the audience to reach out to you if another educator’s listening and they’re like, we wanna get in touch with you and ask a question or have a conversation.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (20:09):
Absolutely. I think we can both probably just give our school emails then. It’s just hailey.babcock@nlsd.ab.ca

Sam Demma (20:19):
Perfect.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (20:22):
And I’m janessa.nevill@nlsd.ab.ca. Do I need to spell it?

Sam Demma (20:27):
Spell it. Yeah, you can spell it if you want to.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (20:30):
Okay. janessa.nevill@nlsd.ab.ca.

Sam Demma (20:38):
All right. Perfect. Sounds good. And thank you both so much from the bottom of my heart for coming on this show, I look forward to staying in touch and seeing all the amazing things you both do. Janessa, if you ever cook in any more pizza or making some gingerbread houses, I’ll send you my mailing address and you can trip it over here. But anyways, thank you guys so much. I really appreciate it. It’s been a great conversation.

Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock (21:01):
Yeah. Thank you. It’s been awesome. Getting to know you and yeah, hopefully we can discuss further as we continue on our educational journey.

Sam Demma (21:08):
Perfect.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Janessa Nevill and Hailey Babcock

February 19, 2022 by Sam Demma Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Lisa Spencer – Student Success, Gap-Closing and Experiential Learning

About Lisa Spencer

Lisa Spencer was born and raised in North Bay Ontario. Inspired by amazing educators, she dreamt of one day having the chance to teach. Early entry to Nipissing University’s Orientation to Teaching Program, she was able to start her undergraduate degree in Environmental Geography learning through the lens of an educator.

Following passion for Special Education, alternative and experiential learning, Lisa found her place teaching youth identified as “at-risk” of leaving before graduating. Teaching in multiple schools, in multiple roles, she turned her focus to Special Education, gap-closing initiatives and the integration of experiential learning to enhance engagement and build relationships.

Now serving the Near North District School Board in a central role, Lisa supports Student Success, Gap-Closing and Experiential Learning initiatives as the Secondary Program Coordinator.

Connect with Lisa: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Nipissing University’s Orientation to Teaching Program

Near North District School Board

Okta Master Schedule

Simon Sinek, “Start With Why”

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. You might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting. Go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Lisa Spencer. She was born and raised in north bay, Ontario inspired by amazing educator. She dreamt of one day being a teacher herself. Early entry to Nipissing University’s Orientation to Teaching Program, she was able to start her undergraduate degree in Environmental Geography learning through the lens of an educator.

Sam Demma (01:00):
Following she, she developed a passion for special education and alternative and experiential learning, and she found her place of teaching youth identified as at risk of leaving before graduating. She taught in multiple schools in multiple roles, and she was able to certain her focus to special education gap, closing initiatives and the integration of experiential learning to enhance engagement and build relationships. And today she serves as the near north district school board and she supports student success gap closing and experiential learning initiatives. A as the secondary program coordinator, Lisa has a ton of wisdom. I hope you enjoy this episode. I will see you on the other side, Lisa, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to, to have you on the show. We had an awesome conversation a few weeks ago, so much so that I thought we needed to share a little bit of it on the show today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit behind the reason why you got involved in education?

Lisa Spencer (01:58):
Sure. Good morning. And thank you so much for having me. So my role this year is a program coordinator for Near North District School Board. My official title is secondary program coordinator, gap, closing student success and HSM. So it’s a very wide portfolio. And I think that that kind of touches on part of why I, I involve of myself in education to begin with. I feel like public education is a very holistic process. I was moved by a teacher when I was 14, which may seem like a fairly cliche story, but I was on a journey to learn. And I love information and I love systems and I love natural systems and observing them. And I had a, a very involved science teacher in grade nine who not only was able to help students connect information in a meaningful way, but really worked to develop community and how community impacts learning.

Lisa Spencer (03:02):
So she very much inspired me and inspired me to follow education in the sense that you can appreciate it, not just for being a, an objective learning adventure, but more so that the more you sub immerse yourself in it and find value in it, the, the more it pays you back. So my first teaching experience was eight and a half years of, of contract work working with at risk youth specifically have a knack for developing rapport and relationship, but by showing and helping students find the relevant, see, and what they’re learning and attaching it to everyday experience. So my journey led me to experiential learning, which is a method by which we help students understand the context of their learning through hands on activity and linking it to everyday everyday activity, seeing it in the world around us and being able to draw connection between theory and application and, and derive meaning from that process. And it’s super inspiring. And the reason I get up and go to work every day is to watch the light bulbs come on for other individuals. And that doesn’t just limit itself to students, but also to adults too, because adults have just as much fun learning as, as students do.

Sam Demma (04:19):
I love that. That’s so awesome.

Lisa Spencer (04:22):
Relates what you’re looking for, but yeah.

Sam Demma (04:24):
Yeah, absolutely. I’m actually curious to know more about what your teacher did back in school that really inspired you. Like what, like what specifically did she do that made you so inspired that, you know, you decide that one day you wanted to be an educator?

Lisa Spencer (04:41):
Well, there’s a number of things. She and I actually continue to have a friendship past my high school experience. Nice. I had her three times. I come from a small community and at the high school I attended, there was only a few hundred students when I attended there. And so you end up having the same teacher more than once. So I was able to, to see her teaching practice in grade nine, and then again, repeat itself in my senior years. But the, the one story that comes to mind most easily is they’re talking about particle theory as you heat a substance, the molecules and, and particles inside substances spread apart. And we know that when a, it becomes a liquid and then a vapor, those particles become chaotic in their movements, inspired by the energy around them and how they, and she was able to liken that to things that we would see in her everyday life.

Lisa Spencer (05:33):
And I can remember being 14 years old and her talking about how the electricity and the summer heat passing through the power lines on the power poles, outside the wires would, would stretch and you would see them lengthen in the summer and they would dip and, and to have someone bring something so real to the table. And then that really made a difference for me. And it’s not something that I would’ve observed or made sense of without someone having pointed that out, but it really did build a firm foundation for, oh yeah, that’s really, that’s really cool. And I mean, watching the, the processes that go on in the world around you, without context, you just kind of take them at face value, but to have someone explain to you at a science, atomic particle level, why something is happening and that you’re able to take that away.

Lisa Spencer (06:26):
And that’s just the learning inspiration. I mean, personally, she developed a rapport with students in our class and maybe students that other teachers might not necessarily always make time for, but she’s sought them out. And she pulled them in and she made sure that they knew they were cared about and that they mattered to that learning. And and to watch that objectively was a, was a very moving thing for me to connect to an adult who valued you as a person. Who’s not related to you and not maybe a friend to you. That was a very moving thing to see meaning not just in learning and progress, but also to see meaning in the development of individuals who eventually will, will contribute to society. That, that to me was a very, very wraparound as we call an education, a wraparound process that affected all of the parts.

Sam Demma (07:15):
Awesome. That’s so cool. I love that because when I look at the teachers that had the biggest impact on me, it was also teachers who connected the dots. Like my one teacher that I always talk about Mike loud foot, who like totally inspired me and changed my life. He would take his lessons and then try and apply it specifically to every student’s interest. So he knew us, he knew us so much. So on a personal level that he could had teach a lesson. And then after teaching, it’d say, Sam, for you, this means X and Koon for you. This means X. And for Julia, for you, this means X. And he would take the lesson and give his best attempt to apply it to all of our personal situations and the things that he knew we were passionate about. And like you, like, I still remember the lessons that he taught due to that reason. And I think it’s so powerful. I’m curious to know though, you’ve piqued my interest in relation to your interest in experiential learning. What does that look like right now? I know things are a little odd and funky. But what does, what does hands on learning look like during this crazy time?

Lisa Spencer (08:18):
Oh my goodness. What agree? A question hands on learning has been impacted in, in the sense that in, in the educational community right now, it’s a, it’s a huge challenge to bring in community partners who, who we very much appreciate because they are that real world context. And so we have a, a, a huge palette of community partners who we so very much, and we’ve developed great relationships where they can come in and help us to, to bring the relevancy to the table in the sense that like, here’s the real world connect. Here’s how hands on learning looks in the work field. In this climate, we have been able to activate a lot of outdoor learning, and we’ve really stretched ourselves to engage with partners who can meet us outside and help our teachers scaffold the work of teachers to bring the learning outside shared manipulatives off the table.

Lisa Spencer (09:13):
It’s looking around the, to see how we can engage students with that hands on aspect. And again, it’s a, it’s about bringing that relevancy and that skillset because experiential learning really is about skillset. It’s about critical learning critical thinking, problem, solving, teamwork, collaboration, you being frustrated and moving through that frustration. And there are a lot of applications that we can still access. Yeah. Despite the restrictions of, of the climate that we’re living in many teachers especially at the secondary level, because here in, in in north bay at the near north district school board, we’re working within an Okta master schedule. So teachers have those 25 days in class with those students all day for 25 days, while that sounds stressful, it really does silver lining allow teachers to develop really rich tasks with their secondary learners. So the labs that we may not have been able to fit into a 50 year, a 60 minute period for chemistry or biology or physics or mathematics, because we know that there are labs, many labs that we could be using for, for mathematics and, and other abstract concepts and ideas.

Lisa Spencer (10:30):
The 25 day opt master schedule really does allow teachers again, to develop those relationships in and use those timetables to their advantage, to expand the learning, to reach those experiential learning goals that they may not have been able to reach in different constraints. So I guess the, the, the, to sum it up, it’s been impacted in the sense that we’re moving from a more traditional model where we would have someone come in, show us the relevancy and participate in an activity to a more teacher driven teacher custody of that, of that learning where we’re doing it in class, we’re doing it outside, but we’re doing it as a group and as a collective and we’re moving through it. So I really do think that there’s a lot of positives to that process, but we do need to support our educators and feeling confident to do that. And so that’s kind of how the, a role has shifted this year.

Sam Demma (11:19):
That’s awesome. And your interest in education started with at risk youth. I wanna dive into that a little more. Tell me more about that. And what do you think is the most important thing when it comes to building a relationship or connection with a student that might be just a little more difficult to get through to?

Lisa Spencer (11:38):
Sure. So when, when working with, at risk youth, we recognize that they’re coming to school every day with a different need set. Hmm. Their goals aren’t necessarily to get an, a plus with R O S S D graduate and, and look at post-secondary. A lot of students come to school with a mindset and I have to be here till I’m 16, and they don’t really necessarily engage with the learning in the same way. So as a classroom teacher, the most important thing is to try and show students how, what you’re offering to them can open up the possibilities for them in the future, but more so to express to them that they mean something to you. They mean something to the educational community, and they mean something to the community outside of the classroom and developing that report. And it was interesting as you were, you were expressing your story from the teacher that meant so much to you taking the time to know what’s gonna make the difference to know that, you know, so, and so’s father owns a garage, and that’s how you spend your weekends to know that, you know, you have a, a person in your life who’s experiencing X, Y, Z to get to know those students.

Lisa Spencer (12:52):
And , again, these are things that in education we say over and over, but being in the hall when they arrive to class and, and welcoming them, but being genuine about it and really taking a notice about what’s happening. And if, if you take the time to, to set that groundwork and to build a community in your classroom, not only does your attendance go up, but the engagement, it goes up, the respect is there mutual respect between you and between the student. And then you can meet in the middle to kind of Fasten that, that learning. The most important thing I think is, is to understand why learning is important to that individual and making sure that you’re gearing and planning your activities and learning to meet their needs. And while that sounds like a, a self-service, is, is that not what learning is anyways, because if we don’t, if we can’t show students why it’s important, then why are we teaching it? Yeah.

Sam Demma (13:47):
Love that. So, so true. I, I, I remember there was a few situations where I was sitting in a math class and asking myself, why are we doing this? And have had teachers that didn’t connect the dots and you get disengaged. Like if the dots aren’t connected, you, you get disengaged. You forget why you’re doing it. And frankly, you don’t really wanna do it. But if someone makes that, why clear the how and what fall in place, very easy. There’s, there’s an awesome book called Start With Why by this guy named Simon Sinek. And he talks about the importance of, you know, figuring out why you’re doing something before you figure out how you’re gonna do it, or what you’re gonna do, or when you’re gonna do it. He’s like those all come after you figure out why. And I think it’s just a great reminder because at every point we should be asking ourselves, why am I teaching this?

Sam Demma (14:31):
And if you can’t come up with a clear reason, you know, you better find one or change what you’re teaching which is a great reminder for every educator when it comes to students and learning, you know, something that also happens sometimes is transformation. You know, a student could, you know, come into a classroom at the beginning of the year and be totally upset and, and a totally different person than the person when they leave the classroom. And those stories happen. Sometimes we see them. Sometimes we don’t. Sometimes we hear about them 25 years in the future. When a student writes a handwritten note or sends you a random email, but I’m curious to know in your years of education, have, have you seen a student transformation and of the of the many of them can you actually share one of them in detail, but you can change their name so that, you know, they, they can remain private. The reason I’m asking is because it will help another teacher remember why they teach and that that reason could re spark and, and Repar their passion for teaching. And despite the challenges they’re facing this year, remind them why, what they do is so important. So do any stories come to mind that you wanna share?

Lisa Spencer (15:45):
So many so many, I think if I could start maybe with a broader concept here. Yeah. The students. So in, at risk programming the students that, that present themselves at my door and so when they were 14, we’ll say, and I was, you know, a young go-getter teacher, those students were coming with a parcel of I’m gonna call it additional baggage whereby they come from houses with addiction or incarceration histories, or involvement in social services and things like that. So the students who come don’t trust the system, they don’t trust adults. And so the number one thing is we had just discussed is developing that rapport, but they frequently come to their, so your classroom and think like this isn’t for me, this is not how I’m going to survive in life is by doing well at school. I have other means by which to be successful outside of this place.

Lisa Spencer (16:44):
And so the number one thing is to show them that they have so much potential and to find their diamond and kind of help them dust it off and find out what that it is. Mm. And I find that if, if we can really help individuals or show individuals or enlighten individuals to find out and embrace what their, what their diamond is, that’s when we see that transformation that you’re discussing, and you might not be the cause of it, you can surely help them on that journey. I’m still quite good friends with the graduate who’s 27 now, which makes me feel very old, but , and so he’s 27, but he came from a very difficult home and he was, you know, I would be teaching him environmental science. I also taught him English. And he would show up to class. And the entire time I would teaching, he would be drawing and sketching and distracted and whereby in many classes you would get in trouble for that disengagement where teachers would redirect him to task, which is absolutely something that we’re taught to do. This was something that I knew that he had to do in order to focus. And so watching this person really struggle through school but recognize that he had so much talent in specific areas. I nourished that. And so and other teachers did too, not just me, but that was a, a thing that, that we nourished and him and encouraged him to do. He’s now a very, very successful tattoo artist. He graduated from school.

Lisa Spencer (18:17):
And, and he did at one point in his life have a very difficult time with addiction. But we stayed in touch. He found it within himself to overcome that. And he’s a very successful tattoo artists. He’s moved to Cochran and he he’s doing wonderfully. He visits anytime he is in town, but to see his reflection on education and recognize that he just wasn’t ready because of the things that were going on in his life, but to still feel welcome every day. Like to me, that’s a huge success us. I could talk about students who I’ve connected with as well, who, you know, they’re, they’re shy and awkward in high school and they graduate and find themselves and their doctors and lawyers and obstetricians. I, my sister, when she had her son, I was in with her during labor. And there’s one of my former students coming in to do, you know, wow, the OB Y N check in.

Lisa Spencer (19:11):
And, and so there’s a lot of in a very small community, especially too, you get to see those students who decide to stay in the region, you get to see them blossom and flourish and be successful. And those students who maybe aren’t, you know, as successful, they still see you in public and they’re kind and friendly, and they have children of their own and they’re being successful. So I feel like pretty much every student I’ve ever worked with has a success story. It’s just that you have to be the type of person that helps people see their own success.

Sam Demma (19:44):
That’s so cool. It would be such a round circle moment to go get a tattoo from that student. that’s yeah, that’s an awesome, that’s an awesome story. And I love that. What personally drives you? Like if I had to ask you what your, why was like, why you mentioned it briefly, but I’m curious to dig into it. Like, why do you get up every day? Why do you teach, why do you love doing this work? Like what’s the reason behind it for you?

Lisa Spencer (20:10):
Very philoso. So off of a question, I, I would have to answer that by saying that all things are connected, all human beings are connected. And I think it’s our job as human beings to find that humanity and that kindness to support others. And I’d rather be an optimist who’s disappointed every day than a pessimist. Who’s always a right. Mm. So I think that it’s really important to look for the best in, in the world, around us and to make change when we can, right. If you want better do better. And I think that, like for me, getting up every day is, is maybe I’ll be able to help a situation or solve a problem that makes the world better, easier, smoother for someone and and show someone the value in learning and progress.

Sam Demma (21:03):
Oh, cool. I love that. And if you could go back to I, the first year that you taught the first year that you worked, what advice, knowing what, you know now, would you give your younger self?

Lisa Spencer (21:18):
You have to focus on the good that’s happened in the day. Hmm. And learn from the things that you’re very self critical about, and you’re always your own toughest credit. You’re always. And so the things that you see about yourself that you’ve done wrong will not be the things that others focus on. Hmm.

Sam Demma (21:39):
That’s great. Now that’s great advice.

Lisa Spencer (21:41):
And don’t teach kindergarten, haha. I’m just thinking it’s very overwhelming. Kindergarten kids are very overwhelming and it’s when you speak to elementary teachers, they would say the opposite that teenagers are terrifying. Whereas I find that those adolescents are just so much more open and honest. They’ll tell you exactly what you need to know. We four year old child, like, I, why are we crying? Cuz we can’t find our myth and I would cry with them. So so I guess the, the short story is know, like know where, know where you wanna be and invest in that. Hmm. With all you got.

Sam Demma (22:19):
Cool. No, I love that. And if someone listened to this and was inspired at all by the conversation, what would be the best way for them, another educator to reach out to you and just have a conversation?

Lisa Spencer (22:29):
Sure. I would love to have a conversation with anybody that would like to chat. My email address is lisa.spencer@nearnorthschools.ca. They can email me anytime.

Sam Demma (22:42):
Lisa, thank you so much. I appreciate it. Keep up with the awesome work and we’ll talk soon.

Lisa Spencer (22:47):
Lovely chatting with you, Sam. Thank you so very much and have a great Tuesday.

Sam Demma (22:50):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode. So if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Lisa Spencer

February 6, 2022 by Sam Demma Experiential Learning Student Success Teaching Tips 0

Avni Soni – Secondary Science Teacher at Centennial High School

About Avni Soni

Avni Soni is the secondary science teacher at Centennial High School in Calgary. This episode explores her passion for the sciences and how she got into teaching!

Connect with Avni: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Centennial High School

Brent Dickson

Dr. Ivan Joseph’s “You Got This Mastering the Skill of Self-Confidence”

CBC Massey Lectures

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and other special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. You might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest was referred to me by a previous guest. And I just wanna say shout out to Brent Dixon for making the introduction. I wholeheartedly appreciate it when you reach out and let me know other educators that you think I need to interview and need to talk to on this show.

Sam Demma (00:59):
So if you have anyone in mind, please reach to me, sam@samdemma.com. Let me know who I should interview, cuz I would absolutely love to chat with them. It results in phenomenal conversations and getting your friends featured on this podcast. Today’s featured guest who I’m super excited to share with you is Avni Soni. Avni is the secondary science teacher at Centennial High School. And what you’ll, what you’ll feel listening to this episode today is that she is extremely passionate about student wellbeing, about biology and science. And it’s a little difficult doing things virtually, but she’s embracing the reality and doing the best she can to give her students a phenomenal scientific education. So enjoy today’s interview with Avni. Thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Can you just start by introducing yourself and maybe sharing, like why the heck did you get into education?

Avni Soni (02:00):
Okay. So I’m Avni Sony. I’ve been teaching for 13 years now all in Calgary. And I got, and I’m a bio teacher and I got into education because I absolutely loved biology and I wanted to share my passion with the kids and just show how cool and all it is. And throughout the years I just, I love my job. I absolutely love it. I can’t imagine doing anything else is yeah, it just, it’s just so much fun. Every single day is just so different. And I just can’t describe it. It’s even though I teach the same con content, it’s just it’s fun and getting to know these kids too. Yeah.

Sam Demma (02:47):
What prompted you to become a biology teacher instead of a biologist? Like I’m sure you could have took different passions with your, you know, your interest in biology, but why teaching specifically?

Avni Soni (02:59):
Because it was a challenge. It was to get these kids to have that, or try and have that same passion for biology that I do. And to like to be a biologist, just doing research, I think, and I just found it would be so mundane, but being in the classroom and, you know, seeing these kids learn and just getting to know them and seeing what their interests are and seeing if I can tweak that towards BI bio or science is just awesome. Or if I could do that, that would be great. So that’s why I chose teaching.

Sam Demma (03:34):
That’s awesome. And did you have any teacher when you were in high school that had to huge impact on you in terms of teaching that led you down that path as well?

Avni Soni (03:43):
Ah, of course, yes. I definitely there was my grade six teacher Sandra Cober. I tried to look her up and I can’t find her. But maybe she listened to this. Yeah. If you’re listening. Cause I think you’re based off of in Toronto or something like that. Right. Are you, yeah, so I mean, I, I grew up in Toronto, so hopefully she’s listening. I’m like you had a huge impact. When I was in grade six, grade five and six, she was both my grade five and six teacher. And just again, her dedication and her hard work and just trying to get all of us to learn and just she’s just so wonderful. And then there was my bio teacher of course in sir, John, a McDonald McKinley I think his name’s Mike McKinley. I probably retire now, but he also had a massive impact just again, cuz he had all this knowledge of bio. Like he could just ask him anything and he would tell you the answer and just, and his passion for it. Kind of steered me towards bio. And then yeah. And then Sandra steered me towards, I think education in that respect.

Sam Demma (04:49):
Oh that’s awesome. It’s funny. Yeah. I really inspiring teacher when I was in grade 12, whose name was also Mike, so Mike must be correlated to passion maybe?

Avni Soni (04:57):
Right, exactly. It can be for sure.

Sam Demma (05:00):
But tell me more about what Sandra did in her class to make you feel so passionate about education. Like what is it that she did that had a huge impact on you? That’s left an imprint so much that you literally can remember her name and have tried to reach out to her in the past?

Avni Soni (05:16):
I, I think the reason I’ve tried to reach out is because when I found out she was Lee, even the school, I, I didn’t go and see her. And I regret that. I regret saying that you have such an impact on me as a kid and as, as a student that I just wanted to tell you how, cause you know, sometimes like as teachers, you just don’t know the effect that you have on kids, you hope for the best, you hope that they will, you know, thrive in the future, but you just don’t know. And sometimes, I mean, it’s nice now with Facebook and all that stuff and social media that you can reconnect, but sometimes we just don’t. So I, I that’s one thing I regret not telling her is that she had this huge impact. And I think again, it was just her nature and like I think our class was a pretty tough class too. There was a lot of different socioeconomic issues. And so but you wouldn’t, you couldn’t tell cuz she was just there day in and day out early in the morning, I feel like after school and just, you know, giving her a hundred percent all the time to whatever it was is, is what I remember. She’s just yeah.

Sam Demma (06:27):
Dedication. Yeah. I love that. I, I think that’s awesome. And what’s really cool is that, you know, that was a teacher that you had who had a huge impact on your life. She doesn’t even know it because you didn’t get a chance to tell her yet.

Avni Soni (06:41):
No, I know Sam.

Sam Demma (06:43):
I know the reason why that’s so awesome is because what that means is there’s gonna be kids that you teach, who, whose lives you change, that you might never know. And of course its, it helps when they tell you and you, you have these bubbly, warm feelings, but the reality is still changing lives and making a huge difference, which is that’s right. Which is awesome. It’s big. Yeah. Do you have any stories of students that you’ve seen transform as a result of education that you think were really inspiring? And the reason I’m asking is because there might be an educator listening who’s, you know, facing some challenges this year and is a little bit uncertain about their own future in this calling. And if there’s a story, you know, maybe there’s a student who, whose name like you can, you can just like take it away or change it just for privacy reasons, but oh yeah, yeah, yeah. If it’s a serious story, but do any of those stories kind of come to mind and if there’s not a, maybe you can share a personal experience.

Avni Soni (07:42):
So yeah, there are a few, okay. I have to change the names. So let’s call this person. I don’t even know William. But I think just, well I don’t, I don’t know what it was out. I don’t know if it was actually, let me, I have to think about this. Sorry. No, it’s okay. I didn’t really come prepared to honest, be honest. I want to wing, I want to wing it.

Sam Demma (08:09):
It’s, it’s more authentic that way.

Avni Soni (08:11):
Yeah, exactly. I just have to think about I God, 13 years and.

Sam Demma (08:18):
And while you think about that, I mean yeah. You know, let that germinate and, and yeah, come to mind and when it does just feel free to interrupt me and say, oh, oh, sorry, my, you know, I.

Avni Soni (08:27):
Yeah, yeah. Okay. Fine. Yeah sure I can do that.

Sam Demma (08:28):
But in the meantime you just told me, or before this, that you were a part of a teacher’s convention and I’m curious to know what is, what maybe one or two things you’ve learned that you thought were valuable from the convention that you could share with any other teacher or educator listening today?

Avni Soni (08:48):
Okay. From the convention. I would say that the takeaway is I think just to always grow and to find new and interesting ways to bring ideas into the classroom. Nice. Is what I would say. It’s just sometimes you get so stagnant just again, being in the class, like, especially if you’re teaching the same grade, same course over and over. So I think the best takeaways yeah. To find some ways to like reinvent the wheel in a way or reinvent the way that you present or reinvent that material to help those kids always about the kids. That’s what I, a hundred percent.

Sam Demma (09:35):
That, and I know biology sometimes is, is very hands on. You’re doing different dissections sometimes. And your models. How have you kind of transitioned during this time to still make biology class possible and, and like fun for the kids?

Avni Soni (09:51):
Oh, okay. It, I mean, because of COVID and the pandemic, it would be completely like online dissections that we could do. Or if I like when we in Alberta, so in December we had online teaching for that one month. And so I still was in the classroom, so I just brought in my models and I just, you showed it with the video. So try and explain that. What are other ways have I online dissections, online videos the models that I have there to show the same concepts is yeah. Is what I’ve done, I guess. I can’t think of anything else really.

Sam Demma (10:34):
That’s awesome. That’s that’s phenomenal. And if you could, if you could travel back in time and speak to younger Albany, when you were just starting education, like what advice would you give your younger self in this calling and profession?

Avni Soni (10:49):
That I know it’s difficult. Sorry. Are you talking about like when I just first, first started out teaching? Yeah. Or like what yeah. Started of teaching. I would say that I know it’s super difficult and it’s so like the first five years are so hard, they’re like the hardest part, but you can do this. You are going to make a difference in these kids lives because you have in some of these kids. And so yeah, I would just keep on doing, you got, this is what I would say. You have this in the bag. Just, just keep driving.

Sam Demma (11:26):
That’s awesome. That made me think of a book. I just recently read called You Got This. Oh really? Yeah. There’s a, there’s a, a PhD in sports psychology. His name’s Dr. Ivan, Joseph, and he has a Ted talk. That’s all about self confidence and yes, he believes that self confidence is actually a skill you can build and there’s a specific way to build it. And he wrote a book about it called You Got This.

Avni Soni (11:50):
That, is that book all about like how to develop that skill and yeah.

Sam Demma (11:53):
And if you watch, yeah. If you went on, if you went on YouTube and just searched, mastering the skill of self confidence, you’ll see his Ted talk and it has over 20 million views. Like it’s really good. Okay.

Avni Soni (12:03):
Okay.

Sam Demma (12:04):
I’ll check it out. But on the topic of books do you enjoy reading? Have you read anything recently that you think might be interesting to share?

Avni Soni (12:12):
So I have been reading, I’ve been trying to get back into reading. I have two young kids, so nice. It’s been hard in the last few years. I mean, I should say hard, but like my time is spent with my kids so nice. But now that they’re a little bit older, so I was like, you know, I’m gonna start reading. So I did start, I got some books a fr from a friend who recommended a book called a short history of progress. It’s based off of these Massey lectures. I don’t know if you know about the Massey lectures that the CBC puts on. Sounds awesome. Yeah, it’s great. Like every year they have a speaker about a certain topic and so and then they put out a book about that topic. And so I’m reading one of those books right now. It just talks about sort of human civilization. I think I haven’t read SAPs yet, but I think it’s supposed to be similar to sapiens. Yeah. And yeah. And so it goes through that. I also have an evolution book that I’m halfway through, but those are on my reading list right now.

Avni Soni (13:14):
I, I feel like there’s something else there too. Yeah, I, yeah, I’m trying to read more also to be a good model for my kids as well.

Sam Demma (13:22):
Yeah. Cool. And are you teaching virtually at the moment? Like, are you teaching from?

Avni Soni (13:28):
I right now for the next I I’m quarantined right now for, until February 20th. And so I’m teaching my class, that’s also in quarantine and then I’m also teaching my other bio class. There’s 10 kids isolated in that class. So I’m also teaching them online, but the rest are yeah.

Sam Demma (13:50):
Was there a case, are you okay?

Avni Soni (13:53):
Yeah. I’m okay. Thank thanks for asking. I, yeah, there was a case in my class and so we had to all quarantine for two weeks and so that’s okay.

Sam Demma (14:01):
Okay. And how are you finding the online teaching? Is it a challenge? How are you getting your kids to turn their cameras on?

Avni Soni (14:09):
I’m not. I know when I was in high school, you know, you’re like self, like you’re self-conscious. And so, and you’re at home when some of these kids probably, especially cuz we have class at eight 50 in the morning that they’re just rolling outta bed. And so I don’t force them to put their cameras on. I, I, I said like, if you want sure, I’d love to see you. I always have my camera on so they can see my face. And I try and make it fun. I’ll do silly things cause I sometimes really silly. Nice. And I’ll yeah, I think like when we did that online teaching in December I did theme days and so ridiculous things like crazy hat day, crazy hair day a sports day, one of my classes came up with the themes and we went with it and the kids.

Avni Soni (14:53):
Yeah. So some of them dressed up, they showed their pets one day they had a pet or a stuffy. And so it was just, it was fun. It was just trying to get them more engaged because this online stuff is so hard, especially when they’re transitioning from, in person online, there’s a case you gotta go, then you’d be back. And so there’s I think it’s taking a toll. I know it’s taking a toll on me, so I can’t imagine how much it’s taken on them with all these transitions that we’ve gone through. Yeah. So I guess, yeah, I think about their health is what I’m concerned about their mental health.

Sam Demma (15:28):
Yeah, that’s awesome. No, I appreciate that. As you’ve been talking, any stories pop in your head about transformation?

Avni Soni (15:36):
Transformation? I think more like I’m just trying to think of and if, if that, well actually I can, I, can I, can I have one? I have a few, I think, but I may there’s one that just happened this year with the online and we’ll call him I’ll call I guess, with the online stuff. And I was worried I, and he wasn’t, he, he just, he kind of wanted to take biology cuz he had to take one of the sciences. And I think he said from the three, you know biology was his thing that he wanted to take. And so he took it but not so much of an interest and he was struggling with the online. I was worried, I actually talked to his dad was a teacher also at my school.

Avni Soni (16:35):
Nice. And just worried about him. Dad had didn’t have any really clue that like that he was struggling with biology anyway, so that student cuz we were still allowed to have students come in. So he came in and he had, I gave him a crash course. And by the end of it, I was talking to his dad and his dad was like, William really loved your class, like so much so that he wants to take grade 12 biology. And I was like, wow, I didn’t know that. I, I can’t tell like sometimes in the classroom that I’ve had that much of an impact, it didn’t seem like he was as interested as he made it out Tobi and that he’s now taking grade 12 for that. I’ve also had another kid I just remembered. Also I think he was really bright.

Avni Soni (17:23):
We will call him, man. This is tough. Bob, Bob. Thanks Robert. So Robert, I mean he is a hard working student and that sort of thing. But again, I guess I think he wanted to go into engineering. But he took grade 12 biology and loved it so much now I, I guess, I don’t know. What’s good. I think he went to the UK and he decided to major in like bio medical engineering. And so yeah, there’s another one where it, you know, the interest of biology and maybe being in my class transpired into his future path there for that.

Sam Demma (18:11):
That’s awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Yeah, it’s always cool. When there are some examples you can think about just because it shows other teachers how important it is that they do, like the work that they do.

Avni Soni (18:22):
Oh yes, definitely. It is a hundred percent. Like if I can say that to all teachers who are unsure or if there’s any educators unsure of what they’re doing, you are doing the right thing. You are making a difference, even though it may not seem like it. You have that small impact, you are doing the best that you are for these kids and they know it and you are going to transform these lives a hundred percent guaranteed.

Sam Demma (18:50):
I love it. And if a teacher listening to this is inspired. No, I think we should end on that note cuz it was so good. Like you said, you said it better than I could, but if there’s a teacher listening, who’s inspired by anything you’ve said or vibes with your energy and wants to just connect and have a conversation. What would be the best way for another educator listening to reach a out and just chat with you?

Avni Soni (19:13):
I mean, I guess it would be via, I do have Instagram, but it’s private cuz I also don’t want students on their or Facebook or email or I don’t know. Yeah. I, they can reach out via email is at avsoni@cbe.ab.ca.

Sam Demma (19:35):
Yeah. I’ll just put a little link to like a form they could fill out in the show notes if they wanted to reach out everyone who listens to this is just other educators. So if someone did reach out, it would just be a teacher like no worries. Oh, okay.

Avni Soni (19:46):
I didn’t know. I didn’t know how it works. Sorry. It’s my first time doing any of this stuff.

Sam Demma (19:49):
No totally fine. Yeah. Yeah. So I’ll just, I’ll just post that in the little notes. If someone to reach out, they could reach you out over email. Okay. Sweet. Perfect. Sounds great. All right. Okay. A thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it.

Avni Soni (20:04):
Thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate this. It was fun.

Sam Demma (20:08):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest and amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed are going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Avni Soni

February 6, 2022 by Sam Demma Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Trevor Small – Drama Teacher at St. Mary C.S.S.

About Trevor Small

Trevor Small (@TKS_Theatre) teaches at the High School that I (Sam) grew up at (St. Mary C.S.S.). He has a huge passion for Drama and Dance. In today’s episode, he shares some ideas about how you can continue your teaching practice in the arts virtually.

His goal is to provide theatre solutions to youth by using improvisational/sketch theatre in order to facilitate teamwork skills, communication skills, as well as problem solving skills.

He aims at developing an individual’s confidence in their presentation skills through the use of a variety of theatre games.

Connect with Trevor: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Mary C.S.S.

University of Guelph

CODE – Council of Ontario Drama and Dance Educators

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and other special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. You might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest teaches at the high school that I went to when I was younger. His name is Trevor small and he is the drama teacher. And as you can imagine, teaching drama virtually is a lot different than teaching drama in class. He has some unique ideas on keeping students engaged in how he can continue his teaching virtually and a also in unique other ways.

Sam Demma (01:04):
And I absolutely love this episode because the subject of drama is so important. Sometimes you don’t realize it, but the ability to share stories, tell stories and act is in a very, a very important skill, especially in the work that I do. So anyways, enjoy today’s episode. I will see you on the other side, Trevor, thank you so much for coming onto the High Performing Educator podcast. It’s an absolute pleasure to have you let’s start this off by having you share a little bit about yourself with the audience and why you got into the work you do with young people today.

Trevor Small (01:35):
That’s that’s a long question. I’ll start, I’ll start with easy stuff first, I guess. My name is Trevor Small. I’m a drama teacher at St. Mary Catholic secondary school. And I guess I had gotten an education because I wanted to give back. I was really lucky growing up high school, especially I had a lot of different mentors that had a huge impact on my life. A couple of them were drama teachers, but I also had a lot of football coaches, a lot of hockey coaches that kind of really shaped the way I see the world and what I wanted to give back to the world. And I guess that idea of kind of being in a collective, whether it’s a team or a play has always been so important to me. So I went off to university. I went to Guelph did drama Guelph played football at Guelph and then went and got my teaching degree and hopped right back into the education world.

Sam Demma (02:18):
Awesome. At what moment did you make the decision that you were gonna be a teacher yourself? Was there a defined moment or what led you down the path?

Trevor Small (02:26):
I feel like I wish there was like one like concrete moment, but there’s probably like a million of them. Like one of the first ones I really remember was being in grade 11 drama class and I had this teacher, his name was Mr. She and he gave me a monologue and said, this is the one for you to do. And I felt like, so SP I’m like, wow, you, you, you have chosen me to do this monologue. And it was like so empowered that I had to do it. It was gonna be the best thing I’ve ever done. And, you know, to kind of a long story short, it’s like still my audition piece today. Oh. So like when I go to audition, I still use the same one because, you know, I, I put so much personal attachment to it. It meant so much to me when he when he kind of called me out and said, this is something that you could do.

Trevor Small (03:06):
I went to university of Guelph and did their drama program there. And I had a couple teachers there as well, too, just really supportive, really encouraging I guess the whole student body to go out there and make your own art and kind of make your own impact. And to be honest, I think when I went to university, my dad and I had a lot of like arguments, cuz I’m like, oh, I’m gonna take drama. And his big thing was like, what are you gonna do with a drama degree? And I’m like, I don’t know. And like, he actually went online to the Guelph website and like actually looked at all the jobs you could get with a drama degree and he was listening them off like one by one, you know, do you wanna be a set designer? I’m like, no, not really.

Trevor Small (03:41):
He goes, do you wanna be a director? I’m like, ah, I don’t know. Do you wanna be an actor? Ah, I don’t know. Do you wanna be a teacher? I’m like, ah, maybe who knows? So he was going through all these lists, I guess, to make it like valuable that I was gonna get this drama degree, but really I was going for the experience and it wasn’t until I got there that, you know, he met other people that were really inspiring really mode students that, you know, wanted to go and create theater in the world. And actually a bunch of them actually started their own theater company, right outta university. Wow. And I was able to kinda like cross paths with them over the next few years and do a few things with them. And it was just really inspiring and really motivating.

Trevor Small (04:14):
And I think that that was probably the biggest takeaway for me that, you know, that old expression, those that can’t or those that can’t teach, I used to have huge problem with that. But a lot of my friends, you know, like they’re, they’re gonna be, you know, waiters working these really small jobs just at the chance of, you know, putting on a play or auditioning for something. But what I really liked is that they were trying to do it. And what we were doing is we were meeting in these, you know, basement writing plays. And then we put them on, you know, I, I, it blew my mind how easy it was to just, you know, rent space at a dive theater, downtown Toronto, you know, you get a bunch of your friends together, you write a script, you put it on, you bring people out, you do it three or four times in a row, and then it never goes on stage again.

Trevor Small (04:58):
And it doesn’t matter that it never exists again, it’s, you know having the courage to, to create something, to put it on. And then, you know, when you’re done, move on to the next thing. So I think that was really inspiring to me. And that’s kind of what I’ve tried to do. Like as a teacher moving forward is like, you guys do have stories to tell, let’s hear them, like let’s create something unique that’s never been done before. And I think that’s what I tried to do in my grade 12 drama class. It’s a collective creation. So we write the play and we perform it two months later. It’s really stressful. It’s really hard. Every year it’s different, but also kind of a little bit the same. But I want the kids to leave grade 12, knowing that one, their stories matter. And two, if they wanna tell their story, they can. And I think that’s probably the most important thing for me.

Sam Demma (05:42):
I absolutely love that. And I can relate to you on so many levels. I made a decision to take an early break from my post-secondary education and my parents are saying the exact same things. And when I told them I wanted to be a youth speaker and work in youth empowerment and, and my, my mentors were gonna be speakers who have done this professionally for years. My, my parents were like, you’re gonna get, you’re gonna get paid and make an impact talking. And I was like, no, like it’s possible. And, and I have this whole vision about a program I want to build and all these things. And, and sometimes I think we get so sidetracked by, you know, titles of, and jobs that we forget. Like, you know, let’s follow the thing that we’re most, most passionate about. And one of the things you touched upon that I thought was really fantastic was the fact that your teacher back in high school, Mr. Shea, he made you feel like you were chosen to do something like this was meant for you. And I wanna know, cuz you mentioned that you also try and give that feeling to your students. How do you do that? How do you make your students feel chosen as well? For whatever their role or their position is?

Trevor Small (06:43):
That’s deep. Like I, I hope I hope they have an impact on students. Sometimes you don’t know if you do or not. Yeah. I think one of the cool things about being a high school teacher is like that first month or two into a semester where you get the kids coming back from university. And I think then you find out that people that you’ve had an impact on. I’ll just share a couple of quick stories. Probably the, my, my favorite one, it’s about three years old now. It was one of my first grade 12 drama classes at St. Mary. And was the first time I was trying this collective creation play. I didn’t know any of the students cause I was still pretty new to the school. So there are kids that I didn’t know they didn’t know each other.

Trevor Small (07:19):
That’s the thing that I found like kind of mind boggling, I thought, oh, by the time you get to grade 12, you’re gonna know everybody that’s in your grade 12 drama class, but they really didn’t know each other that well. So it was this really cool experience of them coming together and sharing their stories. And then we took all of these individual stories, these individual opinions, and we turned them into this wild play. And one of the coolest things was, you know, this, this, this girl in the class she came in and she shared this really, really personal monologue about a relationship she had with her father. And it was like devastatingly heartfelt and like here a pin drop in the class and she couldn’t keep it other, even sharing the monologue. And it was really hard to see her go through that.

Trevor Small (08:05):
And then I had all those questions like, oh, like, should I even ask her if she wants us to be part of the play? Like this is, this obviously means so much to her. Maybe we shouldn’t be sharing it. Right. Mm. But she really wanted to put it on. She really wanted to be a part of the play. So we kept in and you know, as far as a performer goes, she was lights out. She was an amazing actress. Like she had a really powerful script and she performed it so well with so much intention with so much conviction that it was like a show stopper every night it went on and when it ended and the play ended and we were talking about the, the, the whole pro says, she told me that she hadn’t took drama the last three years. She took grade nine and dropped out two weeks into the course, cuz she was afraid of performing in front of people.

Trevor Small (08:50):
Yeah. And I think that was such a, a meaningful moment for me. Like how many of us, you know, knock something off our slate because of an early experience with it. Mm. And here’s somebody that like was terrified of performing in front of people, took this grade 12 drama class. I still don’t know why she took it in the first place comes in and then has this amazing impact. And I don’t know if I did anything directly to help that, but I think the environment that we create, we try and create this space in the drama room where we can share ideas and support each other. And I think by treating each other with that kind of level of respect, that kind of creative environment of respect, I mean the, the, the what’s possible seems, you know, boundless or endless, like who knows what’s gonna come out of it.

Trevor Small (09:29):
I think that’s the coolest thing. That’s the thing I’m most proud of are those like little mini things that pop up maybe every semester, you know, like you said, I had kids in here today doing their monologue pieces and they have to choose a monologue. And I had a couple kids yesterday pick a monologue and I read it over and you know, I, I look at it. I’m like, okay, well, that’s, that’s a nice one that you’ve chosen, but I I’ve kind of tried to pass it along too. I’m like, you know what? I actually think this one would be better for you. Mm. This, this is, this is something for you to do. And, and I think that if I can inspire them and say, Hey, you know, like I saw your mind scene, you’re a great physical performer. Here’s a monologue. That’s perfect for a physical performer like you. And you’re kind of like validating the work they’ve done already and encouraging them to take it that much further. I think, you know, if Mr. Shea’s kind of my inspiration I want to be doing that to other kids as well, whether I’m away of it happening or not. You know? So I think that’s a really long version of a, of a shorter question you asked. That’s awesome. Sorry, we’re talking so much.

Sam Demma (10:23):
No, don’t apologize. Educators are seed planners and sometimes those seeds take 10 years to grow or two minutes. And I guess we just never know until they blossom and we get to see the firsthand result of it, which is awesome. You mentioned briefly while you were talking in there about the fact that you know, some people throw something off because they have a first terrible experience with it. There might be some educators listening who are just starting teaching and are asking themselves, what the heck did I sign up for? Like, this is, this is crazy this year. If you can, could go back in time and speak to your younger self when you were just starting teaching and add in a potential global pandemic and the whole virtual scenario. What words of advice would you give to a younger educator or your younger self?

Trevor Small (11:09):
Yeah, I’ll try to answer this a little bit more succinctly, I guess. Oh, of course. I think, I think when I got in, I was totally blind. I think it’s one of those things as a, as a young young educate, you’re just trying to hang on. I mean, I, I can only, I can only imagine how stressful it must be for a new educator who might be teaching a course. They’ve never taught before and now you’re gonna teach it, you know, online and I’m doing it right now. I got, you know, live classes in the morning, but then I’m online in the afternoon and it’s, it’s really difficult. It’s really hard to kind of get all of the things I think we look, look for as a teacher, we look for all these like feedback cues, right? You know, people smiling, nodding, answering questions.

Trevor Small (11:44):
And the fact of the matter it’s really hard are really easy for kids to hide online. Right. They, they mute their mics, they turn their camera off. You know, they give me a thumbs up emoji if they understand something and it can be really, really hard, I think, to make that connection with the students. And I don’t wanna speak for every teacher, but I think I got into education because of that personal connection for that one to one work we get to do. And I’m sure a lot of educators are the same. So I think that can be really disheartening. Whether they’re using something like zoom to pull people into like separate little breakout rooms and just get a chance to try and get some kind of one-to-one communication going on. I think that’s the, the most important thing you can do right now, to be honest is really hard to engage the students when they’re outside the classroom.

Trevor Small (12:29):
And I’m so excited for the in-class sessions we get, I think I value, I’ve always valued the work I do in the drama room, but now I value it so much more because I really do appreciate the things that we’re able to do when I see someone face to face. And I see someone make some kind of development or growth. It’s so much more rewarding being in this space with that student. So I think that’s the biggest thing. So I don’t wanna like scare the own teacher that might be online for the first time, but like, yeah, I think it’s just gonna be really weird and really different. And I, I hope that, you know, by the end of this year, end of next year, sometime the very near future, they get the experience at being in the classroom. Cause I know that’s what they were looking forward to.

Trevor Small (13:08):
And I know that that is probably their preferred environment. So I don’t know if that answers your question at all. No. Nice. As, as, as a young teacher, I felt like I was thrown to the wolves anyways. So whether you’re online or not, it’s, it’s, it’s just gonna be a battle. Like you’re just trying to keep your head above water. So whether you’re online or in the classroom, I don’t think it really matters right now. It, it’s gonna be a bit of a, a battle, no matter what. So keep going, stay positive and you’ll figure it all out soon.

Sam Demma (13:34):
Awesome. I had another educator tell me the state of the state of the world in terms of education is a like throwing spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks and look that I’m curious to know if anything that you’ve tried has been a huge home run, whether in person or virtual that maybe is new, that you’ve never done before that you think might be worth sharing with other. And on the other side of that question, if you’ve done anything that was a massive learning experience and you think it’s worth sharing as well.

Trevor Small (14:03):
I think the only, and the only thing I can really take out of this whole online learning experience is that I think as educators, we had a lot of fears and concerns about move being online. And I think there were a lot of issues when we first started up where some of the things that we were worried about did happen. But I also think it’s been unique because I can’t believe how many kids actually are making sure they show up for the online sessions. And I think it’s pretty easy to see the kids wanting the kids that want to take owner of their learning. So like today, you know, I create nine different breakout rooms for my 30 kids in my grade nine drama class. And I think the first day, you know, it’s, it’s gotta be really difficult for them to be learning online and not really seeing these people, but now I drop into these breakout rooms and they’re already starting to talk and share ideas.

Trevor Small (14:54):
And it’s very rare now where I walk into a room and, and somebody isn’t on task, it seems like it’s easier for them to kind of buy in. Now, I don’t know if it’s, cuz they’re more used to being online and sharing their experiences or not, but it seems like it’s starting to level out. People are starting to figure out, okay, this is the way it’s gonna be. And I better kind of stay on task. We’re also gonna get left behind even more. So I think that a lot of our fears were kind of realized, but also it’s not as bad as maybe I thought it was gonna be. I’m kind of anti-technology in a way. So the thought of moving everything online, I just didn’t think it had the same, same kind of value, but at the same time, you know, we gotta adapt.

Trevor Small (15:34):
We gotta change at the times. And I think most teachers are probably pretty flexible people or at least I hope they are and they can, you know, change based on the needs of our students. So if we have to change the way we model our education system for a little while, I don’t really see the issue in that. So I think that’s the biggest thing that I’m taking away. I don’t know if I’ve done any, anything, you know, mind bending or you know, revolutionary in the way I’m approaching my instruction. But I will say this for someone that’s like in the arts or if you are in construction in technology, I really like having the kids in class for a longer chunk of time. They go home for a week, they’re online and we do all the stuff that we don’t really love doing in class.

Trevor Small (16:16):
A lot of the paperwork, a lot of the content, but then when they come back into class, I mean, all we have to do is the practical stuff. So it’s been really exciting. And I’ll say this, I don’t know if it’s the kids have really appreciated being in class or, you know, they’re just so happy to not be online anymore. But last like what five weeks when the kids are in class, there is zero off task behavior. We’re in class for two and a half hours straight. I don’t have kids asking to go to the bathroom. I don’t have kids on their phone. We don’t have kids sitting down not doing anything. It’s really interesting. So I don’t know if the shift has been, the students really appreciate the in class time more or because they’re being treated more like adults in a studio session where, Hey, we’re here for two and a half hours to figure out this play let’s work through it. So they’re either really buying into the creative process or just really happy to be back in class. But either way it’s been amazing. Like my mornings are the best part of my day. It’s so inspiring. There’s so much energy and it’s so focused.

Sam Demma (17:12):
Awesome. Amazing. There’s so much inspiration to pull from students like young people just blow your minds consistently, the more you work with them and speak with them and witness their greatness. And so I’m wondering in your personal case, you know, what motivates you and inspires you with what you do because there’s obviously ups and downs for all of us in education, yourself included maybe months ago when COVID first hit, you know, you were burnt out a little bit or educators listening were burnt out. What kept you going? You know, what, what, what gave you hope to keep moving forward?

Trevor Small (17:43):
I think I’m a pretty positive person. Anyways. I think I, I kind of live off of positivity and there’s that old expression, you know, you, you gotta be the positivity in the world if you wanna feel it. So I feel like I’m naturally pretty outgoing. But yeah, I think coming into class every day, the opportunity to do the work, I got really I got a quote that I share every year. But I say drama is immediate, right? It’s always happening. It’s happening right now. And I think the the opportunity me to get back into class and to just have this happen again, has been so rewarding because for like, like three months, we didn’t have it. And you know, all of our end of year projects were kind of, you know, wasted. We started a musical last semester and had to scrap the whole thing and then we’re like, okay, we’re gonna get it going again next year.

Trevor Small (18:26):
No, we’re scrapping that again. So that was pretty like dis heart. Yeah. So I think I really do appreciate being back in the classroom again, because I just love coming in here and seeing what kids come up with. It’s like you said before, there’s so much inspiration in students. I don’t think they appreciate how excited I am. Yeah. For them to have a cool idea or present a scene in a new way or perform a monologue that I’ve never seen before. And I don’t think there’s any way I can really communicate that to them until they see me in rehearsal. And I’m just like dying with laughter or I’m having like a really like emotional response to something powerful they’ve done. And if that kind of continues that cycle of positive motivation, then, you know, so be it that’s I’m want to be doing here. So I think that’s it for me.

Sam Demma (19:13):
Awesome. And if there’s an educator listening to this, who’s enjoyed the episode and is getting some positivity off of you while you speak right now. How can they reach out to you and continue this conversation, maybe bounce some ideas around and just connect.

Trevor Small (19:26):
Well, if they could follow anything I was saying there they could find me at trevor.small@dcdsb.ca. So that’s my board email. And as well too, like if you’re interested in the arts, I just can’t recommend the Code Website enough. That’s the coalition of dance and drama teachers. So check that out. There’s a lot of awesome information out there and there’s a group you can join on Facebook for every region. So I think that’s a great way to reach out if you all are interested in dance or drama. Especially if you’re like you’re an elementary school teacher, I think now with you know, you’re in class all day you’re looking for different ways to break up your day. Maybe some drama activities could really help do that.

Sam Demma (20:07):
Awesome, Trevor, thanks so much for taking some time to do this. It’s been a great interview.

Trevor Small (20:12):
Sam, I really appreciate that. Thanks a lot.

Sam Demma (20:14):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Trevor Small

February 6, 2022 by Sam Demma Music Educator Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Michael Kelly – Catholic Educator, Coach, World Traveller, Hockey Fan and Student Leadership Advisor

About Michael Kelly

Michael Kelly (@729Kelly) currently teaches at Michael Power St. Joseph at the TCDSB. Michael is a highly motivated, passionate, inclusive Catholic educator, coach, world traveller, hockey fan and student leadership advisor interested in expanding his professional network and collaborating with like-minded teachers.

He is a passionate and dynamic young educator and life-long learner who works in west end of Toronto. He is very interested in issues of special education, history, politics, experiential learning, community service and civic engagement.

Michael is an Ontario Certified teacher who works for the Toronto Catholic District School Board in the secondary panel. He is a proud graduate of the University of Toronto – St. Michaels College and OISE.

Michael has worked in several placements in both elementary and secondary school settings, and community service organizations in local communities as well as overseas. Experiential learning, inclusivity and community service form his core beliefs and philosophy on education.

Michael is also a dedicated volunteer and board member of a number of community organizations serving in a variety of roles and capacities, and he has played a key role in recruiting young people to vote and become engaged in the democratic process in Toronto.

He is a passionate advocate for Catholic education, Special Education, Cooperative education, athletics and creating inclusive high-quality learning environments and experiences for his students.

He is involved as a Student Council Teacher Moderator, Coach, and Chaplaincy team member at every school community he has the opportunity to serve. He believes in the tremendous potential educators have to shape and mold the minds and character of the next generation of young leaders.

Michael also collaborates and supports English teacher and podcast host, Adrian Del Monte on The Whole Hearted Teaching Podcast.

Follow on Twitter at @podcastforheart.

Connect with Michael: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Michael Power St. Joseph

Adrian Del Monte

Gen School Italian Heritage Foundation

Brene Brown’s Dare to Lead

Brene Brown: The Power of Vulnerability

Dr. Tim Elmore

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and other spec opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. You might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Michael Kelly. Michael is someone who reached out to me after listening to another podcast and inquired about coming on the show. And he’s a very passionate educator. Michael Kelly, currently teachers at Michael power St. Joseph at the Toronto Catholic District School Board. He is highly motivated, passionate, and in an inclusive Catholic educator coach, world traveler hockey fan and student leadership advisor, interested in expanding his professional network and collaborating with like-minded individuals.

Sam Demma (01:13):
He is passionate and dynamic and a lifelong learner who works in the west and of Toronto. He’s very interested in issues of special education, history, politics, experiential learning, community service, and civic engagement. He is also involved in as a student council teacher, moderator coach and chaplaincy team member at every school community. He has the opportunity to serve. He believes in the tremendous potential educators have to shape and mold the minds and character of the next generation of young leaders. He also supports his good friend and a past guest on this show, Adrian Del-Monte with the whole hearted teaching podcast. I’m super excited for you to hear today’s interview with Michael. It was packed with so much great information enjoy. I will see you on the other side, Michael, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the, the show after we connected a few months ago. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit behind the story about why you got into education.

Michael Kelly (02:14):
Okay. Well thank you. Thanks Sam, for having me on the show, big fan of your podcast. You’ve got some great, great interviews, great educators, so really happy to be here. So I will work for the Toronto Catholic district school board. Currently I teach on a contract right now at Michael power St. Joseph teaching history and religion. So I’m teaching grade 10 right now. And yeah, I’m, I’m really interested in kind of moving into this this space of podcasts. I think it’s a great kind of professional development resource for teachers and I think it’s a great opportunity to share ideas, share resources. So why I was interested in coming on the podcast and kind of sharing a little bit of my own, my own story. So I, I studied undergrad at the university of Toronto and graduated from and I was actually in the concurrent education program at the time at St. Mike’s college. So you know, we, we did kind of a very like he program where you’re taking undergrad courses at the same time as as your teacher’s college. So it was kind of for folks who knew that they wanted to go into teaching and it was a great, great, great experience. And the last couple years working for the TCDSB has been fantastic, some really great personal and professional highlights which I’m sure we’ll yeah, we’ll get into.

Sam Demma (03:45):
That’s awesome. And how did you actually find the podcast? I know there’s a, it came through an interesting turn of events. I’m curious to know how you landed on it, cuz you, you know, you sent me an email and I was like, oh, this is so cool. And we connected whereabouts to, did you find it?

Michael Kelly (04:01):
So I there were actually two kind of sources initially, I believe it was Mike Michael con who’s the student leadership coordinator and teacher at the board level does tremendous work. And I think he was featured on one of your earlier shows and he’s shares a lot and I connect with him online and on social media, on Twitter. And I believe I saw it there as well as a colleague and friend of mine, Adrian Delmonte, who you may know who we partner with on the wholehearted teaching podcast. He kind of mentioned that he was in conversation with you. So that’s kind of how I more checked out a few episodes on the podcast, really like the kind of theme and direction. So yeah, that’s how I found found the podcast.

Sam Demma (04:50):
So cool. Shout out to both Mike and Adrian. Yeah. If, if you’re tuning in, they have their own episodes as well. You can check ’em out.

Michael Kelly (04:57):
Oh, they’re great guys. Great teachers.

Sam Demma (04:59):
Cool. You mentioned that had some serious highlights in education. Why don’t we just dive into those right now? I’m assuming you’re gonna talk about the Coliseum and Rome and taking some experiential learning trips abroad. And, and you know, when we talked before this podcast, you mentioned that those experience really reignited your passion for learning and teaching. And I’m curious to know more about how those impacted you and why you think it’s important to learn also experientially.

Michael Kelly (05:26):
Well, I think the, yeah, that’s a great point. Like I think my initial kind of connection I, I made between kind of teaching and experiential learning came through my own travel. So when I was in university, I actually you know, taught or actually had a chance to volunteer in a couple of different placements in my program through going over to places like South Africa and Bosnia actually to do some volunteer work. So that’s really where kind of the, the seed was planted. So to speak in terms of connecting how powerful service learning and experiential learning can be for, for myself as an undergrad student. And then by extension, a couple years later, I had the opportunity to, as you mentioned, go, go over to Italy in for a few summers in a row to go to labia and Naru. So the Northern and Southern regions of IItaly with groups, hundreds of students big stellar staff team.

Michael Kelly (06:29):
And we essentially spent the summer teaching grade 12 ancient Civ course. The kids got a credit. They were able to obviously experience the culture, the partnership between our board and the York Catholic Board and the Gen School Italian Heritage Organization. So I had initially connected with that organization through an my own high school trip when I was at student at the Asia Bowen. And yeah, years later I was invited to go on as a staff member. It was a tremendous experience, right? The, the students had, you know, besides the academic immersion and, you know you know, being able to go out to the PIAs and the markets and the restaurants and the site seeing and all the historical sites, they also got some life skill training, which I thought was really like an added bonus to the program where for many of the students on the trip, it was their first time, you know, away from mom and dad away from their family.

Michael Kelly (07:32):
And it was also kind of a, a test run to see whether, you know, they were thinking at applying a post-secondary, they could see whether they could handle the dorm life, so to speak, right? Like they, they had a chance to kind of see whether that was something that was well suited to them or not. And you know, they had to do, you know, in some cases do their own laundry, like, you know, kind of keep track of their assignments on their own right time management you know, learning direction, right. Trying to navigate around places like Rome and Pompe and Florence Positano the multi coast. Right. So it was a really, really great immersive experience. And I think for, for a lot of the students, they found that they actually grew over the course of that trip, even though it was like 3, 3, 4 weeks or so, they actually grew a lot after the experience.

Sam Demma (08:31):
And I’m sure going from traveling through Europe to coming back and hoping to go this summer again, and COVID hitting, you know, every thing kinda, you know, blew up and it, it sucks to a degree, but what does education look like now for you? I know, you know, unfortunately you can’t go back to Rome, but what does it, what does it look like now and what do you think are the opportunities just like they existed in Rome? What do you think are the opportunities that exist today now in this environment for young people?

Michael Kelly (09:05):
Okay. So I think it’s a great question. So the first part, in terms of the challenges, I think that you’re, you’re asking about the major challenge, one of the major challenges I’m finding is just us student engagement and definitely concerns about student mental health would be kind of first and foremost and at the forefront of my mind. And I think I can speak for a lot of colleagues as well to say that they, they would probably say the same thing. You know, there’s a little bit of a learning for even as a younger teacher, there’s a little bit of warning curve adapting to the new technology, getting used to, you know, being on zoom and Google meets all the time and, you know, really multitasking on, on a regular basis. For example, like right now we, we have some students who in the morning we’re are teaching in person in the building, but we’re also live streaming our classes simultaneously at the same time that that has been definitely a new experience in the last few months.

Michael Kelly (10:11):
And you know, just, you know, trying to form those positive student relationships can be a little bit challenging when everyone’s covered with a mask. And you’re, you know, you’re trying to teach, you’re trying to tell a joke, a story to your class, and you’re looking for some kind of facial recognition for them to actually, you know, affirm what you’re saying or, you know whatever it might be. So I think those are some of the challenges that teachers are facing right now. Now I know some, those are some that have come to mind and just the workload. I think definitely teachers find that they’re spending more time trying to convert their lessons into an online format because remote learning is so, so different. And the hybrid learning we’re doing is so different from a traditional classroom model. So being able to adapt and be flexible has been really key.

Michael Kelly (11:07):
But the great to get to your next point about like, what are some of the opportunities? I think one of the kind of silver linings or opportunities here has been the great degree of just like innovation that you see your teacher colleagues are doing, whether it’s in your department or in your school. And we actually had a staff meeting a couple weeks ago where it was great to, you know, see and hear teachers sharing what they’re doing in their virtual learning environments. And it just blows my mind some of the, the innovative practices. Like we didn’t even know that some of these techniques were possible a year ago. Right. so I, I do think, you know, obviously there’s a lot of realistic challenges but then there’s also the opportunities to innovate and use things like Google Jam board or for myself, I’ve been trying to utilize a lot of virtual guest speakers and partner with other outside organizations like that.

Michael Kelly (12:07):
That has been tremendous. Like just one example was when I was teaching my a 10 history course for Canadian history, I was able to bring in a world war II veteran who was living in BC. And we were able to have kind of a live interactive discussion with him and just to enrich the curriculum, enrich the learning experience for the students. So I think that there, you know, there are kind of some, and, you know, as we always tell our own students, we kinda have to take our own advice and adopt a bit of a growth mindset in this environment. For sure.

Sam Demma (12:47):
I think that’s so true now more than it ever has been, you mentioned before we started recording that right before the school board tried transitioned back into in person, it seemed like teachers and yourself were just getting the hang of teaching online and teaching virtually. And I’m curious to know when you say getting the hang of it, what did that look like? Like what did your average day look like? What do you think was helping you teach virtually if someone else is listening right now and still teaching in a, a virtual scenario?

Michael Kelly (13:19):
That’s a great question. So in terms of some of the tips that helped kind of teaching from home and being fully virtual all day, I think, you know, scheduling your day almost to the hour to the minute is extremely important. I think in an online environment, even more so than I would say in person you know, just scheduling your breaks, making sure that you’re, you know, you, you can never pour from an empty cup, right? So taking care of your own your own wellbeing as the teacher in the class is obviously paramount to your student success and to their own health and wellbeing, but making sure that you’re pacing things for yourself and your students. You know, in terms of we had a great teacher on staff at the beginning of the year, and he’s been providing support Jeff bobs here at Michael power, great guy, great teacher who gave us some great tips in terms of scheduling, giving our students an activity in the morning, let’s say in our morning online class, and then giving them time to sit with that, with that virtual work, using Google or zoom breakout rooms to give the kids some time to interact and make sure that you’re not lecturing them for three hours straight or, you know, in the morning in the afternoon.

Michael Kelly (14:42):
So definitely breaking up the variety of activities is really important and provide that kind of differentiated instruction. And that just helps with the general classroom management. I found that you’re not gonna have kids goofing off as much if they know what the schedule is in advance, they know the exact time that they’re gonna be doing certain activities or tests. I found that that was really helpful. And then for sure, like just once again, some personal self care, like going for a run, right. Going for walks hikes you know, during the spring last year, I had a chance to get back more into mountain biking, which I had in cycling, like, which I hadn’t done in years. And that really helped. I, I, I felt with my own productivity right in the downtime and, and then reading and you know podcasts and a big film B and always checking out new things on Netflix and Amazon. So kind of tho those things really helped to kind of refuel the tank so to speak once, once the day was over cuz you know, burnout and kind of taking care of your own wellbeing is definitely critical in, in, in this environment more than ever.

Sam Demma (15:58):
There’s a new movie that just came out and Denzel Washington plays one of the main characters and he’s cracking, he’s cracking a criminal and trying to figure out what this guy did and the movie’s titled the little things. And there’s multiple times throughout the movie where Denzel stops and looks at his co police officer investigator and says, it’s the little things that gets you caught. And I, I made the connection between education and thought, you know, from a teacher’s perspective, it’s also the little things, not that you catch your kids doing, it’s the little things you do that make the biggest difference. And I’m so glad you mentioned being a perpetual learner because I think it’s so important leading by example, and showing your students that you’re doing everything in your power to educate yourself, encourages them to have a desire, to continue learning and, and want to read books. I mean, people can’t see this, but while we’re filming this behind you on your ledge of your chalkboard is a dozen books there. And I’m curious to know what, what are some of the books that you have read, or maybe some of the podcasts you tune into, give yourself a shout out and that you think teachers could check out and, and benefit from, from consuming. I I’d love to, I’d, I’d love for you to share.

Michael Kelly (17:11):
Sure. So some of the content I’ve been consuming lately, that’s been helpful. I, I would say would be first and foremost Brene Brown’s Dare to Lead her audio book. That, that was really helpful for me back in the spring and even teaching summer summer school over the summer that was really instructive, really great book. And she has kind of accompanying podcast that goes along with it, which she’s continually updating with great guests. And it talks a lot about leadership. It talks a lot about kind of organizational culture talks about resilience and empathy and vulnerability. I was introduced Brene Brown initially through her Ted talk on the power of vulnerability, which is also really worth checking out. And you know, a lot of the messages she has doesn’t necessarily speak directly to education, but it speaks to the workplace.

Michael Kelly (18:13):
And I found that her, her writing her books, her podcast were really instructive as well as gentleman from the United States named Tim Elmore, Dr. Tim Elmore. He’s done some work with John Maxwell. Who’s kind of a leadership expert and Tim Elmore has a podcast in an organization called growing leaders. And he talks a lot about different issues that are going on in the education world and that podcast, you know, during my runs or hikes or bike rides, that’s, that’s been a really great resource for me in terms of just giving me some in additional creativity and inspiration. And then, yeah, a, as you mentioned bit of a plug here, but I have to give credit where it’s due. I’ve been working with Adrian Del Monte an English teacher from Bishop Allen.

Michael Kelly (19:15):
We used to work together more directly, but yeah, he started a podcast earlier in the in the fall around November called the wholehearted teaching podcast, which a lot of the inspiration for, from that came from Brianne brown and her kind of discussion of wholehearted living. So the idea of the podcast on wholehearted teaching is really we invite educators people in the education space, whether they be teachers principals people in administration, directors writers, authors we’ve had on people in the educational psychology space different topics to talk about the current issues in education. And I, we have a really great podcast coming out new episode on this Tuesday, March 2nd with an individual named Desante hotten, and he’s gonna be talking all about mental health as well as how that affects black mental health in, in particular and how that connects to our role as educators, as we focus on combating racism in, in our society. So really kind of top of mind since we’ve just finished black history month and, you know, engaging in that kind of work along with Adrian and collaborating and helping out in any way I can and promoting has been really helpful for me, you know, just learning about the stories and the different personal journeys and narratives of other teachers who’ve come come before you has been really inspiring for me and has helped kind of push me along through the challenges of this pandemic.

Sam Demma (21:04):
I love that. That’s so awesome. And I’ve tuned into a couple of the episodes, and I know you’ve been, you and Adrian have been doing a anti-racism like series. I would say there’s a ton of great info on the podcast and the Twitter, by the way, shout out at wholehearted teaching podcast. That that’s awesome. So, so good. If you could go back to your first year as an educator and give yourself feedback like, and, and give yourself advice, what is the main thing you would, what is the main sort of things you would say to yourself, or tell yourself to almost get started in this profession again? If, if you could go back and feel free to just unmute yourself as well.

Michael Kelly (21:49):
Yeah, it’s a good question. So in terms of the advice I would give to kind of a first year educator right now would be really to, you know, first and foremost, just be humble and understand that there’s a lot to learn. And you know, you’re going to need in, in my experience, learn how to identify support systems, identify colleagues who, you know, are gonna be supportive, who are gonna act as mentors to you. Because I think that’s what initially for me anyways, that got me into teaching in the first place is having those really great high school teachers. You back at Bishop Allen, who tacked you on the shoulder and realized, you know, okay recognize there was a talent or an interest or a passion. And that was really for me, what was helpful. So for a first year educator, I would see be, be humble try to be resourceful spend time listening.

Michael Kelly (22:50):
Right. we often listen in order to respond you know, rather than listening to really just understand. And I think that that’s a really important concept to understand as you enter into a new profession. And just be very curious in quiz, ask a lot of questions, right? There’s no such thing as, as a dumb question and really seek out the support from your mentors. And I think that that, that will serve a first year educator. Well, whether it’s in this environment or any other environment and allowing yourself to, you know, understand that it’s a long journey in education and you don’t have to expect to be perfect or have all the answers right out of the gate. Right. and, you know, just pursue an attitude of lifelong learning, I think is really, really, really, really important. Your education doesn’t end after teachers college or after graduation. It actually, for me, it just, it just began like it’s just getting started. Right. And even a couple years in now, like, I feel like I’m just learning so much, so yeah. Just stay curious, stay stay humble and ask a lot of questions.

Sam Demma (24:14):
That’s such good advice. That is awesome. And if, if an educator listened to this interview today and is inspired by anything that you shared or just wants to have a conversation with you, be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Michael Kelly (24:26):
So best way would be, you can connect with me. I’m on Twitter at @729Kelly. I’m on LinkedIn as Michael, just Michael Kelly, and then by email michael.kelly@tsdsb.org, always looking to connect with like-minded educators and people in the education space and always looking for another, another interesting guest to bring onto the podcast with Adrian. So always looking to learn more. So that’s, that’s where you can reach me.

Sam Demma (25:12):
Mike. Awesome. Thank you so much for taking time outta your day to come on the show. I really appreciate it. I look forward to listening to your future episodes as well. Keep doing awesome work and, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Michael Kelly (25:22):
Thank you, Sam, for this opportunity and keep up the great work you’re doing a you’re doing such great work and I really admire and respect it. So thank you.

Sam Demma (25:31):
Thank you so much. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Michael Kelly

February 6, 2022 by Sam Demma Athletic Director Experiential Learning Student Activity Director Student Leadership Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Margot Arnold – Entrepreneurship Teacher and Women of the Year Workplace Excellence Award

About Margot Arnold

Margot Arnold (@margotarnold) is an outstanding choice for the Women of the Year Workplace Excellence Award. She continually develops an exceptionally supportive, innovative, and creative class environment for her students in the Entrepreneurship 30 class (Junior Achievement Program) and actively contributes to the caring and welcoming environment at school for her fellow teachers at the Weyburn Comprehensive School (WCS).

Connect with Margot: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Women of the Year Workplace Excellence Award

Junior Achievement Program

Weyburn Comprehensive School (WCS)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and other spec opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. You might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma today’s guest is Margot Arnold. She is a nominee for the credit union workplace excellence award. Margo is an outstanding choice for the Woman of the Year Workplace Excellence Award. She continually develops an exceptionally supportive, innovative and creative class environment for her students in the entrepreneurship 30 class, which you’ll hear about you’ll hear all about in this interview.

Sam Demma (01:04):
It’s linked with the Junior Achievement program. She actively contributes to the caring and welcoming environment at school for fellow teachers at Weyburn Comprehensive School. I had the opportunity to speak to their students a few months ago. And me and Margo connected as a result, she’s had so many different experiences. One of her most proud moments is the teacher project video that was featured in 2017. That highlighted the amazing work that happens in her entrepreneurship class. I don’t wanna get too much into it right now. I’ll give Margo the opportunity to share. And as you’ll hear in this interview with that being said, let’s jump right in Margo. Welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing why you got into the work you’re doing in education today.

Margot Arnold (01:54):
Thank you very much. I’m very pleased to be here. I was humbled when you asked me to come on. So my story I was born and raised in and my grandmother was a teacher in a one room schoolhouse. And so I wanted to kind of follow in her footsteps as she also got married at that time. And during the twenties there, you could not be married and still be a teacher. Hmm. So then she went into business with my grand or for 56 years. So I have the passion for business and I have the passion for teaching and I just wanted to make a difference. So I went to business school after high school, and then I worked in a law firm. Then I worked three years in a private school, came back to work at WCS as an admin assistant and thought, Hey, I wanna be the teacher in the classroom with a degree. The private school didn’t need it. So I went back to school at age 30 and I’ve been teaching now for 20 years.

Sam Demma (02:55):
Ah, that’s awesome. Yeah. And what subjects? I, I mean, I could dive right into the passion for business, but I wanna know where did the journey in education start and what does it look like today?

Margot Arnold (03:07):
So when I was hired on, I took a maternity leave in the business ed area. So teaching accounting, 10, 20 and 30 grade, 10, 11, 12, and information, 10, 11, entrepreneurship, 30 and over the years, I’ve taught online as well. I’ve taught entrepreneurship online and accounting online. So that’s a, a different experience. Although I missed I didn’t do it full time. I did it half so half online, half in the classroom. And that’s a really nice mix cause I, I miss seeing the students faces back when I was doing it. It was a little bit less technology with video and, and whatnot. So that being said over the years, I’ve also taught English and I’ve taught drafting. And that would is interesting because drafting, AutoCAD and learning inventor, which is the 3d mechanical and Revit. And I knew nothing in that area. It was all self taught. So my principal said, well, you teach computers. I said, yeah. And so, so he says, there’s your fit? So that being said, it was pushed personal growth for me. So, but right now I just teach entrepreneurship, accounting and IP, which I’ve renamed as business technology.

Sam Demma (04:36):
I have to imagine that your parents, entrepreneurial spirits inspired you to, you know, take hold of the same sort of ideas and teaching entrepreneurship and running Ja in the school and doing some phenomenal initiatives with the students. Where did that passion internally for you, for entrepreneurship come from? Was it your parents?

Margot Arnold (04:56):
I, I think a little bit growing up in, in a home with a family business like that, I worked at the business, so I understood some of the internal part of it, but my grandmother was a pioneer business woman and I just always strive to be like her. And so she in, they started a gas station and then they added three little rooms at the back, which was kind of cool room and board. They just diversified. And then they got into the car dealership. Hmm. So just seeing all the innovation and the change, I like to be at the forefront of change, which is why I’m on a lot of committees and associations and things like that. So I just love business. It’s always changing.

Sam Demma (05:39):
And you translated that passion for business, this to classrooms of students. I, I watched a couple weeks ago after the speech, you sent me a link to the, the teacher project video, what a phenomenal video that was put together by the Saskatchewan association of teachers or Federation of teachers encapsulating some of the work you’ve been doing. Can you share a little bit about what you do with the students in the entrepreneurship class and with Ja and what that looks like?

Margot Arnold (06:07):
Absolutely. So we were lucky enough to be offered, to have the entrepreneurship program offered in 2014 with the Ja in the classroom. So that means instead of just assignments and textbook and that we went to hands on real learning. Hmm. So with that, they start the first month or so is a lot of what is entrepreneurship? What is an entrepreneur? Different things like that. And then we get into the meat of it as just running the business. So they brainstorm ideas. They come up with feasibility studies, they do some market surveys. They gather that analysis and they analyze that surveys information and they think, okay, this is the idea we’re going with. And then they implement it with the management team. So they either vote or sometimes they work it out amongst themselves. They say, I would like to do this, or I would do that. And if they have two going for the same position, then they’ll do a, do an actual vote. So they write their business plan with or co-presidents. And then they have vice presidents in areas of human resources, sales, and marketing, finance, environmental health, and safety production, and information technology. So they learn if they allow themselves, they will learn so much in class. And that’s usually the feedback I get. It’s not like any other class it’s more relevant, more hands on, more real life. And they have the opportunity to make a profit.

Sam Demma (07:49):
One of the students in the video described it as getting a head start on your future. And I think that’s such a great way to encapsulate what happens in that class based on the videos that I’ve seen. And you mentioned that they make a profit and they, you also donate a profit over the years. How much money roughly do you think has been raised through these companies that were founded by the students and in the class?

Margot Arnold (08:14):
So my first goal was $10,000 when, and I thought that was a really lofty goal. However, I like to set the goals high. Nice. And my benchmark is usually high for the students too, so that they will grow. We have raised in just over six years, just under $14,000 to give back to different organizations. They have to donate the minimum 10%. That’s a da requirement, but other than that, they can donate more or they’ll round up or they can have more than one charity or nonprofit. It just depends on what the company group members wanna do.

Sam Demma (08:55):
That’s amazing. And what are some of the projects that you think have been the most unique or fun to work on? They might also include the most challenges. I saw sweet dreams is a really cool one, but what other projects have been a lot of fun to manage and to watch grow?

Margot Arnold (09:10):
Well, I would say the very beginning one was called kick glass and we took wine bottles and we cut them. And then I learned how many different grits of sound paper. I’m not even sure how to describe it, but there are cuz they had about six different stations where they had to get it, of course, for safety to turn these wine glasses in, into drinkable glasses. So we broke a lot of wine bottles. I tell you that much. However, they it, it was neat to see the progression from how to look at a video and go through it, learn how to do it. And then, okay, that’s not working. How do we have to innovate or change to do? And so they ended up about three or four different processes and they just get it right. And then the business comes to an end and they dissolve the business.

Margot Arnold (10:06):
But students can take on the businesses after I know there was one in Regina, it was a tie dye business, and it’s still operating today. That being said there was one palatable project. I, I enjoyed that one as well, because it also depends on the makeup of your class. There was a lot of creative students in that class. So they made Barnwood signs, free hand and stencil, and they made fire pit chairs from PA pallets. They made wine racks from pallets and they made Barnwood hook shells. And so they had a variety of about four different things, 27 students. And they ended up being a national winner for the chamber of commerce company of the year. Nice. And the other one was overtime and they took brown, new skate laces. It was the idea of one of the gold wing hockey players in eayburn.

Margot Arnold (11:04):
We have a AAA girls team and she came up with the idea, the president was a gold wing and they thought let’s take hockey laces and turn them into lanyards. And I still use my lanyard today. So they had single lanyards, they two different color lanyards together, or they braided them with colors and then they also made the bracelets. So there’s a, a lot of labor in some ideas. And then there’s others where like balanced jewelry, theirs was based on a triangle cuz you think of mental health being the three pillars kind of thing. And so that was their version. They wanted everyone to stay balanced and they made different jewelry right in the classroom and very unique little pieces as well. So I’m it, it’s very exciting to see what they come up with. And every year they surprise me and I learn so much from them. And it’s fun.

Sam Demma (11:59):
I was Gonna say, I’m sure there’s lots of labor, but it’s, it sounds like for you, it’s a labor of love, you know, like it’s a, it’s an exciting labor. What makes you so passionate about teaching entrepreneurship? Like why, why do you think it’s so important to give these students these opportunities to start these little companies in their classrooms?

Margot Arnold (12:17):
Well, I think with this program, the skill sets that they can come out of, it will certainly prepare them for life. Hmm. There’s a lot of communication. There’s a lot of negotiation there’s analyzing there’s parole and solving decision, making all those kind of things and mostly teamwork if they can work well as a team, because of course getting out there in the real world, they have to do that. So that’s interesting at a teenager level and teenagers managing teenagers. So there’s always the strong personalities versus the other personalities. And I just say, you gotta find a way to make it work. And we’ve had some drama I have to admit, but I say work it out and they do.

Sam Demma (13:05):
Oh, that’s awesome. And I know aside from, oh, sorry, continue.

Margot Arnold (13:07):
I was just gonna say lots of great friendships come outta that too, because they work in groups that they may not have ever worked in any other classes.

Sam Demma (13:15):
That’s a phenomenal point. I even think about the little initiatives that we’ve started in Pickering and some of the things that we used to do in high school, it it’s almost like extracurricular activities are an equalizer or like a friendship maker, you know, because you might talk to certain people in class, but then, you know, there’s a, another kid in the corner of the room who has the same interest as you, that you’ve never to, before I went out of your way to talk to, and you’ll meet them at this, at this business idea or at an extracurricular activity. So I think it’s a phenomenal way. Not only to build new skills, but to meet new people. I wish I had your class when I was in, when I was in high school. I think it would’ve been a blast to get involved in that.

Margot Arnold (13:55):
I was just gonna say when I was in high school too, they did it as an after school program. So these students are very lucky that they can take it as a credit program and get an entrepreneurship through 30 credit out of it.

Sam Demma (14:05):
Now, is this something that other school boards or other teachers listening can approach JA and try and do the same thing? Or like how did it start for you?

Margot Arnold (14:12):
It, it started for me in 2014 when the ministry of education came down and, and we had a one-on-one meeting and asked if I would, they wanted to pursue students learning entrepreneurship. So they thought this hands on program is a great way of doing it. I used to have students write fictitious business plans as a final project. So they got to write a business plan and all that’s entailed, but when you can actually implement it and see how it comes to fruition, that makes all the difference in the world. So we do have more schools in the south have taken on JA in their classrooms. I know that in Saskatoon, more in the north, they usually present it as an afterschool program. So it hasn’t flourished there in their entrepreneurship, 30 classes, as much as it has in the Southern part of the, of, but the students that do participate in the Ja are eligible to apply for Ja Canada scholarships.

Margot Arnold (15:20):
Hmm. And only if you’ve taken the class, Ja Saskatchewan then would come out, came out to, after I agreed to take it on Ja Saskatchewan came out to my classroom and they did that. Sorry, can I stop for one moment? Yeah, no worries. Did that ding come through on your end? Okay. That’s okay. I’m thinking I should have maybe closed my email when they, so they came out, Katherine G for vagina was the president at that time and she came out and she explained the whole thing and I thought, okay, this sounds kind of cool. And of course, naturally you’re a little bit leery cuz what you were doing, you thought was working and now let’s try something new. Yep. Which is always scary. So I just see even myself from day one to, this is my 21st company coming up. And that being said, it’s not just one company per class.

Margot Arnold (16:16):
One time I had the, I think the video was focused on my three during that class because you, if they’re willing to take on that leadership position, they could have a group of eight. There was a girl in Yorkton, a group of one and she had her own company and, and she Ja likes you to produce a product or provide a service. And it’s harder to provide a service in a one hour class, but with COVID we are in two and a half hour blocks right now in morning and afternoon. So I have entrepreneurship all morning or all afternoon, like it goes morning, alternates new in the next class. And so that becomes a little bit of a challenge too, because it’s a five day AB block. Mm. So you may not see those students for a good week to 10 days. Yes. So a lot of communication has to be done outside and be on top of that.

Sam Demma (17:13):
I’m sure they create slack groups and, and, and they all have a, a unique way of communicating. I, I would assume that they would work on this stuff even outside the classroom, if they’re super passionate about it, is that what ends up happening?

Margot Arnold (17:26):
Does actually. And depending on the item, as I said, and the amount of time it takes for production pre COVID, we were able to have production nights. And those were a lot of fun because it was after hours or weekends and I would come and, and we usually would have food because food’s a good thing to motivate teenagers. And, and so I would bring in food or we might order pizza in or something like that. And it was fun because they could they were working, but they were socializing. And right now that’s obviously missing right now. But I really was pleased when I was reading my final evaluation questions from first semester and the one student he said you know, most of our classes are pretty silent, pretty quiet for the two and a half hours, but I am so grateful that this class had that socialization and it made you forget you were in a pandemic. And so that one kind of warn my heart when I heard that, because of course anything we can do to build that community relationship right now. So students aren’t feeling as isolated.

Sam Demma (18:40):
That’s the goal that’s so important, especially during a time like COVID 19. And I know that you have also served as the SRC advisor for or multiple years. You’ve organized provincial conferences. You’ve probably seen dozens of speakers. Why, what makes you passionate about student leadership? Also?

Margot Arnold (19:01):
I think I am just really passionate about helping students be the best they can be. Hmm. And I always say kind of an it’s funny analogy, but it’s like a tomato when you are green and when a tomato’s green, it has to ripen, but if a tomato’s red and it sits there and sits there and sits there, it will rot. Mm. So I always say, push yourself outta that comfort zone. It’s not gonna feel good, but you will grow. And I use another analog, yo wipey, you only get out what you put in.

Margot Arnold (19:39):
And that’s what their companies are all about. And, and that’s true for all relationships really, and your schoolwork and everything in life. So just I love business. I love technology. Those are constant changing all the time. So I think that is exciting cuz every day’s different.

Sam Demma (19:57):
Yeah, no, I, I totally agree. And I love the acronyms and the use of the tomato. I have a story that I share with middle school students about my Italian grandfather and trying to get him to quit smoking by burning all of his cigarettes. And then the story I talk about how he comes. So the back of the cottage and his face is as red as a tomato. And I show a picture of him with a tomato head and all these kids just start laughing so much. But analogies are so powerful. Student leadership is, is so powerful. Giving students examples of people who have, who have done things that maybe they’re striving to do is so powerful. What is your advice to an educator who might want to start a JA chapter at their school or, you know, perhaps pitch to their principal to start allowing them to teach entrepreneurship? Like what would be the best way for them to go about it?

Margot Arnold (20:47):
I, I think obviously talk to your principal, get them on board, get your division on board, but contact your JA chapter in the province. And they would be more than willing to come in. And right now Catherine would come in, she’d FaceTime in, she’d Skype in, but she said she’s brought me in to kind of mentor other teachers. We used to get together first and second semester and what works, what doesn’t work in Regina. And so that I could help new teachers get going. So I have done some video calls with other teachers to help, help them get going. And so our province right now is looking at an entrepreneurship 20 and 30. And we’re just trying to decide cuz whether we need that or whether we, we don’t have prerequisites. So the ministry doesn’t, so would you take 20 and 30 or would you just jump into to 30?

Margot Arnold (21:51):
So just some things to consider that we’re working through, but Jas Canada has been phenomenal. Jay Saskatchewan’s been phenomenal and I wouldn’t go back to teaching any other way. Students prefer this business leaders think it’s great. I have business people come in because they do a formal board meeting. They chair it. So they learn about how that works with motions and things like that. And they present their business plan and those business people give them feedback, they share their expertise. And have you thought about this or did you think about that or they’ll come in and help them if they’re having trouble figuring out their startup costs or how to set that sweet spot of price, making sure everything’s covered in the unexpected. So the chamber commerce gets involved in way and a local businessman is on board and he comes to our meetings and then community development community, future sunrise. She comes to the meetings too. So she’s been there from the start. So I have such support from the wave community and they want to help students learn business and they are all, I always think, I wonder if this is gonna be the company that struggles and they always finish strong so far.

Sam Demma (23:17):
That’s awesome. I was knock on wood. Yeah. When you were when you were thinking of, when you were stating that you have so much support, I was thinking of the quote, if you want to go fast, go alone. And if you wanna go far go together and I think it it’s so true that it takes a village of people to bring an idea to life, to support a young person. So kudos to you and everyone involved in the project. I think it’s phenomenal. If someone’s listening to this and they wanna take you up on the offer to maybe just reach out and set up a call with you, what would be the best way for another educator to reach out?

Margot Arnold (23:54):
So I of course, or email, yeah, we could email me. We could, I if we put it on how we do that, but margotarnold@secpsd.ca. It stands for Southeast Cornerstone Public School Division. I’m also on LinkedIn.

Sam Demma (24:26):
No, that sounds great, please. That, that, that works just fine. Margot, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation. It was awesome. Please keep me updated on what’s going on with the students and the projects I look forward to seeing the impact that it makes in the community.

Margot Arnold (24:42):
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure.

Sam Demma (24:46):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

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February 6, 2022 by Sam Demma Student Activity Director Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

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