Education

Andy Rodford is a seasoned educator and consultant with over 30 years of experience in both traditional and outdoor education. As Principal of Venture Gained Consulting, he currently works with K-12 schools, universities, camps, businesses, and leaders across North America, helping them bring strategic plans to life, build stronger teams, and create the time and space to focus on what really matters.

Andy’s background is a blend of academics and experienced leadership. He holds degrees in Biology, Geography, and Education, along with a Master’s in Educational Leadership and Management. He’s been a Head of School and Deputy Head at independent day and boarding schools, led Admissions and Advancement teams, and directed a large outdoor education center and summer camp, bringing his passion for experiential learning to life.

Beyond his institutional roles, Andy is a sought-after speaker and workshop leader at educational and camping conferences, sharing insights on leadership, change and risk management, strategic planning, and program development. When he’s not working with schools and organizations, you’ll likely find him wood carving, boating, or exploring the outdoors.

Connect with Andy Rodford: Email | Linkedin

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Resources Mentioned

Venture Gained Consulting

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Andy Rodford. Andy brings over 30 years of diverse educational expertise to his role as principal of Venture Gained Consulting, where he partners with schools, universities, camps, and businesses across North America to implement strategic plans and building effective teams. His multifaceted background combines academic credentials in biology, geography, education, and a master’s in educational leadership with hands-on experience as a head of school, deputy head, admissions and advancement leader, and outdoor education center director. As a respected speaker and workshop facilitator at educational conferences, Andy shares his insights on leadership and program development while maintaining his personal connection to the outdoors through wood carving, boating and exploration. Andy, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show here today.

Andy Rodford
Well, it’s great to be here, Sam. Thanks for having me on the show.

Sam Demma
How long have you been carving wood, my friend?

Andy Rodford
Well, you know what? I’ve been carving for now almost 25 years. And I had a friend that taught with the First Nations group in Hidaway, and he was our teacher at the local school. And he taught me the basics like he was taught from First Nations. And so I’ve been carving for 25 years. It is like zen. It’s my happy place. I’m not very good with idle time. So the reality of doing some wood carving, I mean, I can get lost in wood carving for hours and hours and hours and hours and just forget what day it is.

Sam Demma
It’s great. I noticed when we started the Zoom call for people tuning in, I saw something in Andy’s background. It looked like a wooden head of a bear behind you. Is that something that you carved?

Andy Rodford
No, it’s actually just a stuffed bear that somebody gave me years ago that I just thought, like every gentleman’s office ought to have like some sort of bear head, right? That’s awesome. No, not really. But actually, you know what, in the same background, you can actually see there’s wood carving that’s hanging on the wall. And it’s called a chain saw. So it’s the handle of a saw carved, like everybody knows what a handle of a saw looks like. And then it’s a series of wood loops that are all interconnected, but that are all carved from one piece of wood.

Sam Demma
Wow.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, so it’s pretty cool. And it turns into a chain where all the links are all separated. Yeah, it’s kind of fun.

Sam Demma
The audience wasn’t expecting this conversation, but last question on woodworking. What was the longest amount of time you spent working on one piece? And what was it?

Andy Rodford
You know what, I carved an orca as my first 3D, you know, sort of wood carving project with the help of the same guy that taught me. And I think I spent, I carved it out of Arbutus, which is a local wood on the West Coast that is very First Nations connected and it’s a beautiful wood, but it’s hard and it’s a tricky kind of thing to carve. And the orca is probably about two feet long and it’s in an arch like it’s coming out of the water. And I spent hundreds of hours on it. But you know, Sam, the carving was one thing, but then it’s the sanding. And I can see why First Nations carvers have apprentices that do a lot of sanding, because it’s a huge amount of work, but super proud of it because it was my first go at it. And so it’s one of the pieces that sort of sits around my house here that people comment when they come. But just the last point about that, the sanding of Arbutus, the last grit that you use is like 1500, which is like jewelry paper. Wow. And when it’s finished, it feels like marble. Like that’s how smooth and dense the grain is.

Andy Rodford
And so it’s a really fun thing to carve with, but it is kind of tricky because it’s really hard. Hard wood.

Sam Demma
That’s exceptional. Thank you for sharing that. It sounds like you have been working on wood carvings almost as long as you’ve worked in education. You know, tell me a little bit about your 30 years of experience in education and how you got into it.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, well, thanks for asking. I always wanted to be a teacher. I went to, to, I grew up in Quebec and in Ontario and I went to summer camp, which lots of kids do in the East. I went to camp for 25 years in a row. I started at six and then just sort of stuck with it the whole way. So, you know, I became hardwired to be an experiential teacher, you know, in the world of, you know, being a counsellor and a program director and a canoe tripper and all those right up to being a director of a large outdoor ed center in Ontario, which had, you know, like 900 kids and 140 staff and 17 countries worth of kids. It was like, it was like the, my first kick at the can of being a head of school. And so I really wanted, I really wanted to be a teacher. That’s one of the reasons why I have degrees in biology and geography, because when I went to university, I wanted to be able to have degrees in two different departments so that I could actually be very hireable and teach in the social sciences, geography, or in the science side of things. But when I started in teaching, I started in a very traditional classroom with a department head that probably should have retired like 10 years before I started teaching, and who was like the opposite of experiential educator. And then I really should have started my teaching career in the last 10 years because what I was doing like almost 30 years ago was very kind of camp focused. My classrooms were fun. We did a lot of fun things. We did a lot of experiential work, but back then it was objective-based learning. So it was like, you were supposed to go from 1.3 to 1.5 to 1.7 and assign things to be memorized for homework and all that kind of stuff. So I ditched classroom teaching early, went back to running outdoor education full-time for years as the director of a big camp. And then I had to make a decision, Sam, as to whether I was gonna be that guy that was gonna be like an 80 year old camp director, still doing like summer camp, or whether I was gonna actually come back into the school world.

Andy Rodford
So I put the word out, the independent schools and the private summer camps kind of run parallel to each other. And so when I put the word out that I was gonna come back into education, I actually came back into education as a senior director of a school. So I came right back in as a director of admissions and advancement and so I really in my career kind of bypassed that whole slog of working my way up through the teaching ranks. But it meant that at a really young age I became a really, you know, I became a senior staff member. I became a head of school, for example, when I was 38, which generally is about a decade earlier than most people who get their first headship. So I jump-started that. And then ultimately, when I was getting towards the end of my career, I realized that I didn’t really want to be head of school, mostly because of dealing with governance and all the politics. I love the interactions with the kids. I love the learning, the staff work, the building capacity, like a lot of the things that I’m doing now in my consulting practice, I was able to do by not being a head of school. So that’s why I was a deputy head of school for you know 12 years and when they when they actually went my last school they changed the head you know they did a search and uh and I didn’t apply uh even though I’d been at the school for five or six years at that point too much to people’s like you know like oh you got to be kidding me like you’re and I didn’t apply for all the same reasons that I just told you. And then the head couldn’t come for a year because of his contract. So the board came to me and said, we know you know how to do this job. So then I became head of school for like 14 months until the new head came. And then I went back to my deputy head role up to the point where I stopped like a year and a half ago.

Sam Demma
Okay, this is fascinating to me because I think a lot of people think there’s such linear paths toward certain positions in education, but also in any career or any industry in life. You’ve taken a very different approach.

Sam Demma
When you reflect on your experience as the Ed Director for camps, what are the skills you feel that you learned that were very applicable to that immediate position in a senior role with a school?

Andy Rodford
Well, I can tell you, and I know it’s kind of a theme of the podcast. I mean, it is all about the people. I said it when I ran the camp, I said it over and over many times at all the schools that I worked at. The schools, for example, or the camp will be here for hundreds of years after we’re all dead. And so while we’re here, we have to look after each other and we have to get the most out of our relationships. And because that’s where the capacity and that’s where the horsepower comes from, is harnessing all of that. And, and so I learned right away, you know, about the management of trust, for example, right. And that, you know, the the management of trust is, is, you know, it’s the thread that holds the whole organization together, but, but it’s work, and it has to be created and, and, and it has to be earned, and, and it has to be intentional, right? So I learned, you know, early, I actually had for another time, maybe a story where I had my entire leadership style changed in one conversation in in 1995.

Andy Rodford
With a with a mentor interaction that I had that that that just changed my whole leadership style to to be, you know, to recognize the fact that, you know, saying no to somebody is not a career ender. Being friends with everybody and kind of like going the extra mile in order to make sure that nobody dislikes you or any of those sorts of things are things that people like learn over time. Well, I had the advantage of having that information delivered to me in 1995 in one conversation by a mentor who knows who he is, and he changed my entire leadership style that I carry with me today.

Sam Demma
What did that individual say to you or make you feel that shifted that perspective so deeply for you?

Andy Rodford
Yeah, you know what? He was giving me the results of a 360 sort of feedback evaluation that I had asked for. And at that stage in my career, I was in the yeah, but stage. So, right. And I think we all kind of recognize that, you know, like you get a bit of feedback and then you go, yeah, but you know, and then you kind of just explain it away. And anyway, this, this guy was patient to a point and, and, and then he just kind of lost it on me. Like he, he just, he got mad at me in a way that almost like my own parents have never got mad at me. Like we kind of went up one side and down the other. And, and, you know, it was all about the management of a management of trust. It was all about, you know, the consistency and, and, and maybe if I can give you an example of that kind of demonstrates it, right. So if a camp, for example, if I had a counselor, so I’m the director of the camp, I’m carrying the clipboard, you know, I got all the really important camp director things that I gotta do, camp directors. And a counselor comes to me and says, Andy, the light bulb in my cabin is out and I need a new light bulb. And I dutifully write it down on my clipboard that Sam needs a new light bulb and then we part ways and all that sort of stuff. And then because I’m super busy in my role, I’m now on page four of my to-do list, right? So your light bulb is still mixed in there. But meanwhile, Sam is sitting in the dark. It’s now day three. You hate me because you asked for it. I’ve seen you like a hundred times and you’ve never said anything more about the light bulb to me. Now, as a director, every time you and I are walking by each other, I’m like, why is Sam giving me like the hairy eyeball light about, you know, like, cause I don’t even know what I’ve not done. And, and so if you back that up and go to a place where you say, Sam comes to me and says, I need a light bulb for my cabin. I should say at that point, Sam, listen, you know what? I don’t do light bulbs.

Andy Rodford
You need to go directly to the maintenance guys and get a light bulb. And as much as you don’t feel like you’re being service minded to Sam, that redirect might be off-putting for Sam, but A, he gets his light bulb within the next 10 minutes, and most importantly, Sam, you will never ask me for a light bulb ever again in our entire relationship, because you know the answer on where you get light bulbs from, and you don’t go to the director for that, right? So the notion of managing that trust and managing those elements, right? Because the first way I gave you, you know, the trust piece is going like right, you know, down the toilet almost, right? Like it’s in a death spiral if that just kind of carried on with no light bulb in day four, day five, whatever it was, right? And where I was curt with you and, and pushed you to another source, but it’s over. You got your light bulb and everybody’s learned and it didn’t even get onto my list. Right. So it’s, um, you know, a few things like that learning along, along the way, um, you know, was a, was a big, big advantage for me when I was younger in my career.

Sam Demma
You mentioned that you asked for feedback and that conversation was the result of this individual giving you this 360 feedback. How do you think about giving someone on your team feedback when they haven’t asked for it and you kind of wish in the back of your head that they did. Is that ever a situation the leader finds himself in? And how do you manage giving someone some suggestions when maybe they haven’t asked for them?

Andy Rodford
Right, well, that’s a responsibility that you have in the leadership mode, right? And I think that most organizations should have some sort of structure where they have feedback relative to your priorities. And there’s different kinds of feedback models that you can use that are really super friendly, even when it’s tricky information. And so, as a leader, you triage stuff, right? So is this something that I need to tell you right away because it’s a safety concern? Is this something that’s attached to your professionalism? Is this something that is like a nudge? Wouldn’t it be great if you maybe did this and considered it, like that kind of thing. There’s a whole gradation of the reasons why you would give feedback. But I think that most organizations should have some structure where there’s annual feedback or regular feedback. You know, a lot of schools and organizations have drifted into coaching cultures so that it just becomes part of every conversation. And I can talk more about a little bit of that later on in the conversation, because I have really strong opinions around the notion that every interaction that you have with anybody should be viewed as an opportunity, no matter how small.

Sam Demma
You believe that having a people first approach is really important. One of my mentors always says, you build the people and the people build the business, or you build the people and the people build the institution. It sounds like you have a similar philosophy. Tell me a little bit about that idea of the people first approach, and then maybe we can lead that into this idea of the coaching culture.

Andy Rodford
Sure. Well, I think that people first approach, I mean, you know, the, the, um, your friend is right. Like, you know, the reality is, is that you can build the most amazing, um, structure and organization, but if you don’t have the people, um, to, to run it, it’s doomed, right? Just like from a school context, if you have really great people, excellent teachers, excellent staff, you can teach kids in a trailer. In my case, you can teach them in the out of doors, at an outdoor aid, et cetera. You don’t need to fancy anything, right? So, I think it’s about prioritizing the, you know, sort of well-being growth and the engagement of people who make up the school community. So the staff and the students and the families and alumni and, you know, other community members and it’s, and it’s really sort of like the mindset that sees culture as the foundation for successful operations and not as a by-product of the operations.

Sam Demma
Right? So you’re intentional about the culture.

Andy Rodford
Very much so, right? Because if you put the people first approach in action, you know that educators thrive when they feel like trusted and supported and students learn the best when they feel like trusted and supported and students learn the best when they feel safe and understood, right? You know, when they belong. I mean, I mentioned before that I said that every interaction is an opportunity. Well, I made a sticker about a decade ago that actually says, enduring success emerges when learners are understood, engaged, achieving. And then it says, how are you ensuring that every interaction is an opportunity? And I gave that sticker to our 170 teachers in the school. And then of course they all looked at it and said, oh, that totally makes sense. If I understand Sam, then I know how he ticks, then that’s the avenue for him to be engaged. And when you’re engaged, you achieve. And then I said to them, I said, okay, well, that’s fine. But what’s your proof that Sam feels understood by you? And the whole room froze.

Andy Rodford
Like they just went dead silent, right? Because, you know, it’s super different to think about the data that you need to collect when you’re interacting with somebody to know that they feel understood by you. But you and I both, like I mentioned, one of my mentors, right, that changed my leadership style. I mean, everybody listening to your podcast will have somebody, a trusted adult in their world, that they really truly feel understood by them.

Andy Rodford
And then all of a sudden, you’ll walk like 15 kilometers in the snow to stand in their garbage, right? Like uphill both ways. You know, you’re totally engaged and then when that happens, then the achievement comes. You know, I’ll make a couple more points if that’s okay. If you adopt the mindset that every interaction is that opportunity, then, because you don’t know what’s going on in anybody else’s life, right? And there’s an old teacher adage that you may never, you may never get the chance to sit in the shade of the tree that you plant, right? And that’s because we teach kids and then they go off. And then only when you get old like me that they come out of the woodwork and they’re like, Oh, remember, you know, now they’re like 40 something and they’ve got kids of their own. And I say, Oh, my gosh, I say the same things to my kids as I as you said to me, you know, it’s, it’s pretty funny. But I had I had the number 212 on my bulletin board in my office for years. And people would come in and they’re like, what is that? You know, what is that? And I said, well, it was all about this concept, right? So 212 is the temperature that water boils. Right? And when water’s 211 degrees, it’s just really super hot, but you add one small, single inconsequential degree. To that water and it changes state, you know, it releases like masses of energy, you know, the, and, and so you just don’t know what one tiny thing along the way, good or bad, is going to like send somebody into that altered state. So if you think about that every time you’re having interactions with people from a people-first approach standpoint, then everything that you’re doing is kind of authentic, authentic, even though it has like a strategic kind of feel to it.

Sam Demma
I love that idea. I also, I have, I had an image in my head of the person who I feel understood by outside of my family, pop into my head immediately as you were talking about this whole idea of people that make us feel understood. And I started thinking about what that person did that made me feel understood and asking thoughtful questions, doing more listening than speaking, um, shifting my belief by asking, uh, intelligent questions, leading with humility, almost like a quiet champion. I’m curious, what are the commonalities you’ve found over the years of these people that tend to make other people feel understood? How do they do it?

Sam Demma
There might be a teacher listening that’s curious and they want to make their students or staff feel understood.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, well, I think, you really just have to, um, adopt the notion of, of the fact that you, from a leadership standpoint or from a teacher or whatever, whatever role where there’s a indifference in the power structure or, you know, there’s this implied notion that students are learning from us and blah, blah, blah, all that sort of stuff, even though I’m a firm believer that we learn way more from the kids. They say it takes a village to raise a child, but I think it takes a bunch of children to raise the village. That’s the real notion of it. And if you’re a leader and you’re, well, everybody’s a leader, but I mean, if you’re in a position where you have some control over the culture, if you believe that strong relationships drive better communication, collaboration, and outcomes, then you should be as motivated to find ways to do that in the best possible way.

Andy Rodford
Just like you want to find best ways to manage your budget and prioritize your well-being and all those sorts of things. So it just means that you have to become like super intentional and you need to like model empathy and active listening. You know, we talked about the management of trust, you know, valuing input from everyone, like so creating the structures that give everybody a genuine voice. So not just like, you know, surveys, but kind of real dialogue that gets data from people. And what else?

Andy Rodford
You know, investing in professional growth. I know that you’re so keen on the professional growth aspect as am I, right? So not just compliance training, but you know, all of the skills that we’re talking about are ones that are their skills. Like, so they, they got, they’d have to be learned and they also have to be like practiced over and over and over. Right. And if you lead with transparency, you know, like if you’re open about how decisions come and you actually recognize when you make mistakes, you know, that kind of vulnerability, um, you know, you become a bit of a magnet for, you know, that relationship that you’re talking about, right? You know, here’s another sort of like spin of that kind of thing. We use the word mentor a lot. And, you know, my concept of mentor, which a dear friend of mine shared with me and I couldn’t agree with more, is that mentor is very much a noun, right? So it’s always capitalized, right? And being a mentor is a gift. It’s not, right? It’s not something that you are to somebody else. It is that concept that somebody else has established you as a mentor. So when they call you a mentor, it’s a gift as opposed to a structure.

Sam Demma
I love it. I look forward to reading Chiz’s book.

Andy Rodford
Oh, you know who I’m talking about.

Sam Demma
I had the pleasure of having a conversation with him as well. And he shared so many unique ideas. You share so many philosophies that he shares and I am so grateful that I had the opportunity to chat with him and even now chat with you. I can draw a ton of similarities which are really inspiring. On the notion of professional development, because I know it’s something you value deeply and it sounds like a successful team values it as well. One of my favorite inspirations was a gentleman named Jim Rohn, who’s passed away now, but he wrote lots and has lectures online that I love listening to. And he would always say, your professional success will never exceed your personal development. He was a big advocate for the personal growth aspect of any job or career you get into. When you think of personal development, are there any resources that have been really instrumental in your own life or that you always lean on when it comes to teams? And maybe it’s not specific resources, but activities, exercises, or anything of that nature.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, well, I mean, there’s loads and loads of them, Sam. Like, you know, and you mentioned Ian Chisholm with the Roy group, like just to put that plug right in there, right? I mean, Ian and I have been good friends for a long time and, you know, we golf occasionally and we meet for coffee on a pretty regular basis, all that kind of stuff, right? So we definitely share a lot of mindset, but, you know, like the, interestingly enough, I would give Ian much credit in his, the structure that he puts in places with the Roy group that allows you to build on your leadership capacity, right? And they do a lot of stuff on looking in the opportunities in conflict. So instead of recognizing a conflict might be a hurdle, there’s always an opportunity that that’s connected to that. Right. So there’s a whole element of work and body that they do that would dovetail very much with what you’re asking about. best approaches. I think that finding, it’s really important to stay current in the changing landscape. So, Protea helps you stay informed and allows you to sort of lead from a place of knowledge as opposed to reaction, right? You know, there’s, you can go to conferences that help you sharpen your strategic thinking so that you can think in bigger picture stuff, you know, and how to align people and purpose and priorities, all that kind of stuff. You know, the, the, the, the reality of, of, of just sort of having that mindset of constant improvement in your leadership practice is key because then once you have that lens, so many different things like big programs for sure that are offered, but also little tiny things, right? Like I use a program, a protocol that’s by, from the National Reform Faculty Protocols, which, so which, which I’m a coach of. And, and they, you know, like there’s a, you know, a thing called Chalk Talk, for example, and Harvard University uses it a lot, you know, where, where you put some, you know, four or five really tricky questions around the room on chart paper, and, and you get all your people in there, you split them into groups. So there’s a group at each chart. And, and everybody gets a marker, and there’s no talking. So every every five minutes, like for five minutes, you write all of your answers feverishly, you comment on other people’s comments as they’re as you’re writing with your marker, and you move to the next question, which has already got everybody else’s thinking started. And by the time that you get around to the end, you have the whole room summarized their thoughts, and where you started, that group can actually look at where all the agreements are. I tell you that only because the coolest part is that there’s equity of voice in that, right? So if you’re thinking about the team, there’s lots of people on the team that just won’t put their hand up. They just, you know, they’re like submarines, right? Like they just kind of cruise around under the water. And then every now and then the periscope comes up and they say stuff that can swing an entire room. But, but there’s usually three or four people in the room who, you know, like to hear their own voice and, and, uh, and, you know, kind of monopolize things from time to time. So, you know, there’s leadership strategies along the way that help mitigate all of, all of those sorts of things. So this is what I’m talking like, management of trust is work.

Sam Demma
I know we’re a little over time here. Is it okay if I ask a few more questions? Yeah, 100% yeah, fire away. Tell me about your concept of the coaching culture.

Andy Rodford
Well, you know what, I think the coaching culture is key because you know, you’re constantly, it’s not filled with judgment. It’s built on the notion of growth. You’re open to the idea of feedback. There’s ways of using coaching models in order to build culture, in the sense of everybody having a shared language and a shared mindset. They all think differently, but they know how to communicate. Like I can tell you, if it wasn’t for a coaching culture that we had, our school would have not made it through COVID like we did. Right? The work that we put into in developing our coaching culture and how we communicate with each other, it made it easier for making decisions. And I think, you know, just as well as anybody else, that there were like decisions per hour that needed to be made. And then you get to the end of that day and every protocol changed for the next morning. So, you know what I mean? Like the, you know, people were potentially at their wits end, but because we had done all the work in the coaching culture and because we had invested in professional development and because we had managed trust, through that whole process, people had assumed best intentions. So, the gang who were at the school, who very easily could be like, Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? We have to put like more red tape on the ground. We have to close off all the fountains. We have to do all this sort of stuff and, you know, move our kids around. Anyways, as we came out with each change, they assumed best intentions. They knew, you know, Andy’s not doing this just for fun. Ah. He’s not doing this to mess with us. He’s not doing it, you know, I don’t understand why we’re doing it. I don’t agree with what we’re doing, but I’m going to pause and I’m going to ask clarifying questions. Right?

Andy Rodford
And, and those clarifying questions come without judgment, you know, and they’re answered without judgment. And so it just becomes, you know, a great way for, you know, check-ins can happen and shaping decisions. And it gives you, because you’re dealing with individuals, you know, sort you’re dealing with individuals, sort of feedback back and forth, it gives you way more opportunities to celebrate accomplishments along the way, which is something that helps build that, because it would be the questions that you’re asking as a coach-mentee kind of relationship, goes right at the heart of where their successes are. And to use a Roy group thing, you know, from a feedback standpoint, things are either, you know, either went well, they were tricky, and then what would you do differently if we’re going to do this again in the future, right? Like those become like the only three questions that really are important to ask. I love the idea of assuming best intentions.

Sam Demma
I even think about it in everyday life. Someone shows up late to a meeting, assume something went wrong and hope that they’re okay. Someone cuts you off in traffic, assume they’re rushing their kid to the hospital. It’s just a more joyful way to live your life than to assume the negative, right?

Andy Rodford
Right, but that’s work. Like you have to trap yourself in that moment to not have that instinctual sort of rage or whatever else, just from your traffic standpoint. Anyway, that is the key thing. But again, it comes with the foundation that you’ve built long before anything adverse happens.

Sam Demma
This has been such an insightful conversation. I really appreciate the time you’ve invested to have this conversation. If anyone’s listening and wants to reach out to you or do some work with you with venture gain consulting, what would be the best way for them to get in contact?

Andy Rodford
Well, I have my website is venture gained.ca. And so it’s pretty easy to get there. And and and there’s a contact page and all that kind of stuff. But Sam, the one thing I’ll say is that for those that are listening, I have a blog and a podcast page on the website that’s just filled with help-filled blogs. So things like the management trust pieces on there, the one degree of education, that’s the 212 thing, harnessing the power of productive failure, critical importance of cultivating leadership skills and teachers, embracing the power of differences. You know, there’s all kinds of things in there. And then I just posted one that is about the wet dog syndrome, because there’s the Canadian schools are getting together this week. And so I’ve posted that and the West, the wet dog syndrome of professional development, because people go to professional development and then they come back to their organizations. And and if you’ve ever been, you know, by the water side when a dog comes out of the water, what’s what do they do? They shake, right. And and you and water sprays all over the place. That’s the feeling that people have when others come back from professional development. They kind of just quietly sort of back away from you, you know, because they know they’re just gonna hit, you’re gonna hit them with all their new learning and we gotta change this and we gotta do that. And we, you know, and so it’s like the wet dog syndrome. So anytime I teach a workshop, I talk to the crowd about the wet dog syndrome and being, you know, there’s a whole toolbox in there about how to bring that learning back to your organization and get people to sort of buy in and adjust things. So it’s not just like 5% of what you learned. It can be like 95% of what you learned.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. I love that metaphor. Would the blog have a special link or is it your website forward slash podcast or blog?

Andy Rodford
It’s actually, um, I think it’s just forward slash blog, but if you go onto the website, um, it’s like the first tab, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll see it. And just says, it just says blogs. And then, uh, and then click away. There’s about 25 different helpful bits and pieces in there.

Sam Demma
Awesome. Thank you so much, Andy. I’m taking some notes here. This has been phenomenal. Keep up the amazing work that you’re doing. And I hope to see some of your wood carvings in the future.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, well, there’s actually a blog post that’s gonna be coming out on the 8th that has a whole bunch of my carving on it. And because the whole notion of the blog post is about humanizing us as teachers and leaders, right? What does Sam do in his life that’s really interesting that I don’t know about that would make you way more connective to me in a professional relationship. And so I’ve got a whole blog that’s coming out. And so on the front page of the blog has a whole bunch of examples of my carving.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that. I find that maintaining personal practices while you pursue professional endeavors is so important. And anytime I’ve let go of those things, I start to enjoy my work less. I could, and sometimes I convince myself that I’m too busy to do certain things, but.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, yeah, well, so if you ever interview people that have worked with me, you’ll realize that one of the things that I did when I was at the school was I outlawed the word busy. You weren’t allowed to use the word busy and you weren’t allowed to use the word change. So, busy, when somebody says, oh, I’m so busy, then the instinct is that we need to rescue you. And then if you ask them for, you know, what help do you need? They’re usually like, oh, no, no, I’m good. It’s just that I, you know, and then all of a sudden, it’s like, well, actually, what your week is is full. And your day is hectic. But you’re not like a turtle that’s flipped on its back. It’s busy. And so, and then the change aspect is just, change is paralyzing, right? But if you shift, shift is easy.

Sam Demma
I love it. Thank you for sharing that shift.

Andy Rodford
Well, and there’s piles of shift all over the place. Like you can have some fun words that you can have fun with the word shift. Yeah, don’t throw your shift in my backyard. There’s a whole bunch on there. That’s awesome.

Sam Demma
Thanks so much, Andy. This is lovely. This is lovely.

Andy Rodford
Well, it’s a pleasure and thank you very much for having me on your show.

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