Director of Education

Kerri Russell-Channer – Owner & Founder of Russell Aquatics Swim School

Kerri Russell-Channer – Owner & Founder of Russell Aquatics Swim School
About Kerri Russell-Channer

For over 20 years, Kerri Russell-Channer has been at the helm of Russell Aquatics Swim School, providing families with exceptional swim instruction and fostering a love for water safety and skill development. Her passion for teaching and commitment to excellence have made Russell Aquatics a trusted name in the community.

Outside of work, Kerri loves spending quality time with her husband, Titus, and their three active children, often shuttling them between various sporting activities. A travel enthusiast, Kerri enjoys exploring new destinations and creating unforgettable family memories.

A fun fact: Kerri has had the privilege of working alongside her sister and co-owner, Kristi Russell, for the entirety of her swim school journey. Their shared vision and dedication have made the past two decades an incredible adventure, both professionally and personally.

Connect with Kerri Russell-Channer: Email | Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Russell Aquatics Swim School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Kerri Russell. As the co-founder of Russell Aquatics Swim School, Kerri has dedicated over two decades to providing exceptional swim instruction and promoting water safety within her community, working alongside her sister, co-owner Kristi Russell.

Throughout her journey, Kerri has established a trusted reputation for quality teaching and skill development. Beyond her professional accomplishments, she balances her entrepreneurial pursuits with family life, enjoying travel adventures, and supporting her three children, supporting activities alongside her husband, Titus. Kerri, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, I’m so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Sam Demma

I need to be a student of your swim school because I learned in my grandfather’s backyard and I’ve learned that that’s not a good way to learn how to swim properly.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Hey, that’s okay. Did your grandfather teach you or did you get lessons in your grandfather’s backyard?

Sam Demma

It was a soft push into the shallow end.

Kerri Russell-Channer

It was a throw in and sink or swim situation.

Sam Demma

Sometimes an educator has these aspirations to do things outside of their role as an educator in a school building, but it feels like entrepreneurship is a sink or swim situation. Tell me a little bit about what inspired you to start your entrepreneurial pursuits years ago.

Kerri Russell-Channer

So I started when I was 17 years old. So I grew up as a competitive swimmer and I then transitioned to teaching swimming and I was working for the city and I absolutely just loved teaching children. I was, my plan was to go to school to be a teacher.

I was teaching adapted aquatics. I loved how I could make a difference and truly saving lives. And I loved connecting with the children and helping them get over fears and then seeing them succeed and their parents coming in all anxious.

And then you just developed this like beautiful bond as they move through something that they were very fearful of. So I knew from a young age that I just, I loved helping people and I loved teaching. But I also grew up in with a lot of my friends, their parents were entrepreneurs and I loved the freedom they had.

I loved the creativity that they had. I really was inspired young by entrepreneurship and when I, you know, was presented the idea to write up a business plan, a business plan in my grade 12 class, there was because of swimming was such a huge part of my life. I thought, why don’t I start a swim school?

My parents backyard pool. And it was just that simple business plan. I got a grant and I, I started that summer and I never looked back since.

It’s going to be 21 years this June and I’ve loved every moment of it. It’s been quite the adventure, but yeah, there was a lot of times where I fell sink or swim and I still feel like that today. You go through growing pains.

Sam Demma

And there’s an educator listening who has another idea of something they want to do, maybe not in their parents backyard, but their own backyard or a passion project outside of the classroom. But they think that they can’t, they think that it’s not possible for them. Can you walk me through how you overcame your own, maybe limiting beliefs or how other people can overcome their own limiting beliefs when it comes to jumping into an entrepreneurial pursuit?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, people have a lot of limiting beliefs. You know, it’s just start somewhere and just it’s small steps every day. You know, whether it’s a dog walking business, whether it’s car washing, car detailing, just something on the side.

You don’t have to go and quit your job and start a business and, you know, throw it all in and say, this is it, start slow. And it’s really one day at a time. But for me, it was personal growth and development.

And I threw myself into becoming a different person. I had to work on my mindset. I had to get over limiting beliefs.

I had to get over, over fear. I mean, I was 17 when I started my business. I didn’t know much, but then I look back and I’m like, maybe that was perfect because I just jumped in and just did it impulsively because I was young.

But I think that like anybody can do that. It’s the story we tell ourselves. And I think we all, if we can focus on ourselves and, you know, podcasts and books and a lot of personal development conferences, this stuff shifted my mindset and really once I started, there was no looking back, I didn’t care what it was going to take.

And I still don’t care what it’s going to take. I’m, I’m going to do it.

Sam Demma

When you think of the conferences you attended, the books you’ve read, the podcasts you listened to, the seminars, are there any resources that have been foundational? Like you, you attended this event or read this thing and it really opened your eyes or do you think it was more a combination of all of the experiences?

Kerri Russell-Channer

I think it’s all the experiences. I think there was definitely certain things that stood out to me and certain motivators that really spoke to me over others. But I, I really think that it’s cumulative.

It’s also the people you meet at those conferences and the network you start to build. Entrepreneurs think different. We just do.

And we gravitate towards each other and you can lean on each other for support. And I thought that like once I, I was actually a, I got involved in my early twenties in a network marketing company and you know, I didn’t, I don’t do the network marketing company today, but the leadership and the conferences and the people I met, there was so much valuable information that I took away that I feel like kind of like really threw me into the next phase of entrepreneurship, um, in my mid twenties. So there was so many amazing speakers there that, um, really just touched me and, and, and moved me forward and motivated me. Um, yeah.

Sam Demma

There’s a author and speaker named Jim Rohn who I was going to actually mention him when you just said that he, he was big in herbal life. And I still listen to his lectures on YouTube and the information is so rich and so valuable and it’s accessible right there. The guy I recently had, well, we had a sink in our, in our basement break.

And my dad called one of his friends, Jimmy, cause they’re not here right now, uh, who has the, the know how to fix it. And I was handing him tools to help. And he looks at me and he’s like, Sam, can you believe that before I came here today, I bought seven books for $3 and 50 cents.

I was like, what? And he’s like, yeah, I stopped at thrift stores and I get books that are like $24 at Indigo online, but I get them for 50 cents and I read like two to three books a week. Honestly, it’s there, it’s there for people, but most don’t have the drive to kind of, you know, crack them open, um, and like dive into the learning, not to make a swimming analogy.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, but it’s, it’s true. And, and even if it’s not, um, it’s not reading for me, I, I listened to a lot of, um, audibles and I walk. So audibles are massive for me and I just walk and I listen and I get my exercise in and I find that those are, you just have to find what works for you, but all of these books and what you fill your mind with is who you become.

Um, there was a, the email that changed everything for me. Um, Simon Sinek was another one. He was a massive influencer.

He still is. I’ve seen him speak about four times. Um, but when I read the email, I think that really took me into a different level of business.

Um, and start with why it was one of the ones that I, I really resonated with from the beginning for the educator, who’s not familiar with your work today, tell us a little bit about Russell aquatics now.

Sam Demma

It started in the backyard. Um, give us a high level of view of the company now.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah. So Russell aquatics started my parents backyard pool with me as the only instructor with probably about 70 kids the first summer. Um, as it grew each summer, my sister joined me, my best friend joined me and we kind of like grew our, our instructors.

And we started not only teaching from my parents backyard pool, but we rented other people’s pools and we traveled to other people’s homes. Um, we got to a point where we were doing about 500 kids a week in the summer. And that’s when I knew I was graduating teachers college that I wanted to expand this business and go full year.

I started renting out of hotels, gyms, anywhere where I could get a pool all season long. They weren’t the best situations. I didn’t love the facilities, but I knew I needed a way to expand the business and push through that.

And about seven years ago, now we built our own 6,000 square foot custom facility with an in-ground pool. And now we teach about 3000 kids a week. And we have a staff of over 70 part time.

And I think we’re at five or six full time right now. And we’re just seeing those growing pains again. Now looking for another location, looking to expand.

Um, and it’s not always easy. I run through a lot of challenges trying to convince a landlord to put an in-ground pool in their unit. It’s not the easiest thing to do.

Um, but you know, we, that’s where we are now. So we are hopefully going to expand to multiple locations around the GTA. And, and we’ve grown this like beautiful team of people and this beautiful community of people who love Russell aquatics.

And we saved over hundreds of thousands of lives. And a lot of these people I’m still very close with today. I started teaching their kids when they were babies at the city and now they work for me.

Sam Demma

It’s such a beautiful facility filled with amazing human beings. I enjoyed meeting some of your staff and, uh, just seeing students and families so excited to show up and swim and learn. Can you walk me through how you attract such amazing human beings on your team?

There, there might be a superintendent or a principal listening who wants to get more, uh, enthusiastic staff in their organizations, but I’m not sure how.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, I think, um, we live and breathe our core values and, you know, Christie and I, Christie is my sister. We’re not at the facility every day now, but we work a lot with our leadership team to resemble the kind of leaders that we are. And we lead with passion, integrity, love, care.

Um, and really like we put each other first and we put our customers first. And it’s like, how would you treat family? How would, and that has to be in your, the back of your mind.

We do a lot of customer service training, um, white glove service. And we just really, I think at the end of the day, when you lead with love and passion and integrity, the rest of your team want to lead the same way. And that is a culture that you create and we’re big on our culture in our swim school.

So whether it’s our team, whether it’s our families that come to us, we want people to feel a sense of belonging. And we want them to experience having a certain type of experience that we’ve curated for them. And that all starts with putting others first and really leading by our core values and our integrity as a company.

Um, and yeah, we’ve been super, I mean, I want to say we’ve been lucky, but we’ve worked hard and we’ve held people accountable and we’ve, you know, just created this culture and family that everyone just wants to be a part of. And it’s, it’s being like such a beautiful journey.

Sam Demma

I think it’s something you’ve attracted. Jim Rona always says success isn’t pursued, but attracted by the person you’ve become, and it sounds like you and Christie and the team, role model, the behavior you wish to see in the staff you bring into your facility and then hold them accountable to those core values in education, there are unhappy customers, which are usually parents calling to speak to a principal or to speak about the way their teacher handled a situation, and it’s the same or very similar in a swim school. If you have an unhappy customer, it’s a, it’s a parent of a young person.

Um, what is your philosophy around dealing with those challenging conversations when someone’s expectations are not being met or they have a challenge or an issue?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah. And I’ll just quickly to go back to what you just said as well about Christie and I and emulating, um, and then people following lead by example. We also bring our leadership team to a lot of different conferences.

So we expose them to that greater sense of leadership from experts. And we’ve done that for our staff as young as 17. Um, and we bring a lot of people in to have those talks with them.

So I think that’s really important. If you’re not helping your, your team get better. We always say, even if you leave Russell aquatics one day, you’re going to leave better, you’re going to lead, lead, leave as a better leader than what you came in as, and that’s the impact we want to have on your life.

So I’ll just say that quick. And then handling difficult clients, it’s not easy. People management’s hard.

Um, and you can’t, not everybody’s going to love you, unfortunately, but we listen. And we try our best to come to resolutions. And we own up to our mistakes when we’ve made them and we make, and we try and do things right.

We don’t deny when we’ve made a mistake. We take every complaint, every feedback very seriously. And we have internal meetings and when we need to change our processes or change the way we’re doing things, then that’s what we do.

We pivot, we learn, we go, we’re not stuck in mud. Um, we’re not afraid of failing. We fail forward and we learn and we listen and we move forward.

And it’s not always easy because emotions are difficult and people management is difficult. Um, and we’re not, we don’t always do it perfect, but we’re learning.

Sam Demma

You said we listen, we own up to our mistakes and we try our best to make the best decision we can moving forward. I think those are, those are really the keys, you know, you listen to the person intently, you own up to where you fell short, and then you try and make the best decision moving forward. Um, I also think that we improve our decision-making and the actions we choose to take based on the mentors we have in our lives, you know, Luke Skywalker had Yoda and, um, the Karate Kid had Mr. Miyagi and Michael Jordan had Phil Jackson. And, um, most of these high performing people in life had a coach or like a mentor, someone who really helped them. When you think about your career, isn’t anyone who was a really great mentor to you, who played a really significant impact on the way you think about things and the way you show up? And if so, who’s that person and what did they teach you or do for you?

Kerri Russell-Channer

I would probably say it’s pretty cliche for me because it is my parents and it’s my dad and my dad was actually, um, in leadership and development for Hallmark Canada for over 30 years. So from the time we were very young, we were, um, thought about accountability, about leadership, about attitude, um, and about how you just show up. So I think that those lessons influenced my sister and I so greatly that we became these strong leaders from a very young age.

I mean, when I was in grade four, I won this speech contest on an ICANN attitude and, um, if you believe you can, you can, if you believe you can’t, you won’t. And, um, that was ingrained in me from a very, very young age. So I would say that my dad had a massive impact on me becoming a leader and really like believing in myself.

Um, and then I have a community of swim school owners, other swim school owners that have the very similar story to me. And very young in our very early on in my entrepreneurship journey, I reached out to them and I said, this is who I am. I wasn’t afraid to ask for help for people who had already paved the path.

And I think so much of the time we’re so afraid to lean on people in our industry and we’re threatened, or we feel nervous to kind of, to reach out to those people, because we think that they won’t want to help us. But if you do that, you find that you can have built some incredible relationships and those people really, really, really help to propel us into the next phase of business. And also introduced us to a whole network of other owners in the same industry.

Um, so some of the problems that we dealt with, we were able to lean on people who had already done it and were more than happy to help.

Sam Demma

Are you still in touch with many of those people as colleagues now?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah. So I’m a part of the Canadian Swim School Alliance. We actually founded that association in COVID.

Um, so we’re very close there. And then I have a lot of people that I’m friends with and mentor me that are from like Australia, a lot of Australian swim school owners, Philippines, the United States, and we’ve built this like network worldwide throughout our Canadian Swim School Alliances, or not even just Canadian, but US, the International Swim School Alliance. And these people are all owners and leaders and we’re all about mentorship and helping each other and not just helping us as owners, but also helping our teams.

Sam Demma

Tell me a little bit about balance. Um, and maybe it’s not balance, but it’s about, uh, integration between your work and your family life, because there’s an educator listening who is wanting to do more. And the first thought that pops in their head is if I do more, I’m going to die.

Like there’s just, there’s not a space for it. What, what boundaries have you set? What systems do you follow or what things have helped you, um, manage the demands of all the other buckets you have in your life?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, balance is tough. And that’s something that I’m always working on. I think I’ve gotten a lot better as the years go, have gone on.

But as a mom of three, I can tell you, I’m so happy. I set that foundation, um, when my kids were pretty early, cause the burnout was real and as a woman entrepreneur, it’s, it is very difficult running, um, your business, running your family, being a good mom, being a good friend, being a good wife, being a good leader, and it’s very overwhelming, but I had a mentor in the swim school industry tell me, um, just before COVID, I was really struggling from burnout. My son was one years old. Um, he’s my second.

I had opened our swim school on his first birthday and I was completely burnt out, um, and I was, I was breaking. And he said to me, he had me read the email and he said to me, do you want to be queen or do you want to be rich? And he goes, you have to get out of your business and stop working in your business or your business is never going to grow.

And it’s never going to function without you. And I read that book and it was the biggest wake up call for me because what I started doing is I started trusting my team more and we put people in place to help us to run our business so that we could take a step back and not work in our business as an employee. Cause that’s what I was doing.

I was working as an employee within my own business. Um, and I started to work on the business and the business, I took a step back, I wasn’t in the swim school all the time. I, I reorganized my hours.

I reorganized my life and we grew the business probably double within that year because we had the opportunity to get out of the pool and start working on what are some of the issues? How do we market better? How do we communicate?

How do we lead our team better? How do I trust my team? And it was hard because a lot of the years I did everything myself because as this is your baby, you think you can do it the best and you can do it the best, but I needed to trust my team that they could do as good of a job, if not better.

And thank God I learned that lesson because honestly, today with my kids in rep sports, I don’t know what I would do.

Sam Demma

You’d be losing it.

Kerri Russell-Channer

I would be a mess. So I think that that’s, you know, people always say to me like, oh my God, like you have this business and you’re, you have flexibility and I’m like, yeah, I’ve created my business to be able to operate without me. And that’s a huge, huge lesson.

Sam Demma

One of my mentor says a business you can sell is a great business to build. And it hinges on that whole idea that it could exist without you being there. So I’m going to go reread the email. Thank you for the recommendation.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, the email is amazing.

Sam Demma

I think what’s really exciting about your journey is that, you know, it’s been 20 years or just over 20 years and there’s many more years to come, but you’ve done, you know, two decades of work in this, in this space, at least. And when you think about the time, what are, what is maybe one accomplishment or achievement so far that you’re most proud of and what vision do you have for the next decade?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Oh gosh, there’s so much. We just celebrated our 20th year last year. So I think about this a lot, but, um, I don’t know.

I think having taking the risk of opening that facility was definitely the biggest. I was in my late twenties at the time and it was very daunting and I took out a big loan and it was scary. Um, and I, it was, I didn’t know what I was doing.

And again, it was one day at a time. And I think that’s just knowing the belief in myself to take the risk. Um, the belief in myself when not many other people had a belief in us and didn’t really believe that we could do this or we were making a huge mistake or we are going to put ourselves in debt and the risk and the state, like just everything.

And I think that me just believing, no, this is, I know I’ve got this. I know I can do this and just continuing to move forward. Um, I think that, that definitely is a huge one for me and what the next 10 years look like.

It really is about growing now. It’s not just growing this business for Christie and I. It’s about growing it for our team.

We want to give our team the opportunity to grow into different positions and for them to experience growth with our company. And, um, if we don’t grow, we’re not just doing a disservice to Christie and I, but we’re doing a disservice to the people that have put their blood, sweat and tears into this business alongside with us. And we want it, we want to bring them on this journey.

So the next 10 years we’re grinding it out and we’re expanding and, um, it’s going to come with its own set of challenges, but we’re excited for the challenge. We, we, we look forward to challenge and it, I think that’s what helps us to grow even more. And I don’t like sitting stagnant, so, um, I’m, I’m really looking forward to the next 10 years and those growth opportunities and what what’s to come.

Sam Demma

It’s an exciting thing to witness. I can’t wait to follow the journey. Keep up the amazing work that you’re doing.

Thank you for taking the time to come on the podcast and share some of your entrepreneurial ideas and insights and your own journey. I know it’s inspiring not only to me, but to everyone who’s listening. Um, I’ll see you soon and until then keep up the amazing work.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Thank you so much. Thank you again for having me

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Kerri Russell-Channer

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

June 3, 2025 by Director of Education 0

Ryan Wamser — Director of School Improvement for ROE #40 and Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub

Ryan Wamser — Director of School Improvement for ROE #40

About Ryan Wamser

Ryan Wamser has taught middle school Physical Education, high school drivers education and health, been a high school Assistant Principal, an elementary principal, assistant Regional Superintendent, and a district Superintendent.
He is currently the Director of School Improvement for ROE #40 as well as the Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub. Ryan is passionate about helping to support teachers and administrators in any way possible. When not working, Ryan loves spending time with his wife Michelle and their four kids.

Connect with Ryan Wamser: Email | Instagram | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

ROE #40
Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub
Ryan Wamser

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Ryan Wamser. Drawing on experience from teaching to superintendency, Ryan now serves as both the Director of School Improvement for ROE 40 and the Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub. His diverse career spans middle school, physical education, high school health and driver’s education, building leadership as a principal and district leadership as a superintendent.

Sam Demma
A passionate advocate for supporting educators at all levels, Ryan balances his commitment to educational excellence with family life alongside his wife, Michelle, and their four children. Ryan, thank you so much for taking the time today to be here on the podcast.

Ryan Wamser
Thanks, Sam. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Sam Demma
Tell us a little bit about what got you involved in education and why you’re passionate about it.

Ryan Wamser
Well, it’s one of those things that as a kid, I never saw myself doing anything else. My dad was a teacher, taught for 22 years, was a middle school science and math teacher, my older sister’s a teacher, my mom was an administrative assistant working for a regional office of education. So I grew up, you know, learning how to shoot a basketball and learn how to walk through the halls of a middle school. Got to see the impact that educators had on kids

Ryan Wamser
and on colleagues and community. When I was 12, my dad passed away, actually in the middle of coaching. He was a, he coached year round for the school that he taught at and actually passed away in the middle of coaching a volleyball game. So got to, you know, obviously that was a traumatic situation for a 12 year old, but got to see the impact that education had on his students and his coworkers. And I still get to see his impact today because time doesn’t go by where somebody doesn’t come up to me and ask if I’m Jim Wamser’s son and they have a little story to tell me or some sort of thing that happened when they were in school that they credit to my dad for them getting into education. And so it’s just one of those things that, I always say that that was probably the worst time of my life was being a 12 year old kid whose dad collapses in the middle of a volleyball game and passes away.

Ryan Wamser
And then luckily I didn’t go to the school that he taught at, but I was at the neighboring school where, you know, his best friend was the superintendent. His other best friend was my principal, you know, all those people that were there that were friends of his. And I got to experience what, you know, education is about and the community that it brings in. And, you know, I always say it was the worst year of my life in school, but in some respects,
it might’ve been the best year of my life in school because I got to really experience what education can and should be and what teachers mean to kids like me that I wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you today if it weren’t for those teachers when I was 12 years old who wrapped around me and made sure that I was taken care of.

Ryan Wamser
And so it’s just a little bit something that I try to give back every day to make sure that I’m leaving even a little bit of a mark that my dad left on his community and his friends and kids who are now grown adults and give them back as well.

Sam Demma
It sounds like your dad made a really large contribution to every person he crossed paths with. And it made me think a little bit of my grandfather who passed when I was 13. It was the first time I ever attended a funeral, very different from losing a father, but losing a family member was tough. And I’ll never forget the stories people told me. There was one lady that told me that my grandfather, when he had cancer, would still show up to her house and shovel her driveway and bury her hamster in the backyard when she asked him to. All these random little things, right. And I wish I could have captured more of those stories and, and just wrote them down in a journal or something. I’m sure you’ve heard so many over the years that you were completely unaware of that, that you didn’t even know your dad did those things. Are there any that bring you an immense amount of pride and joy that you might want to share one, one or two on the podcast here today?

Ryan Wamser
Yeah, there’s a lot. Just recently, it’s funny, my son is 13 and he’s gonna be in high school next year. And the teacher that he probably will have for biology, not too long ago, it was a few months ago, she stopped me and she said, you know what, I’ve, we’ve talked numerous times, but I never put two and two together that who your dad was. And I said, yeah, she goes, well, the reason why I’m a biology teacher and a science teacher is because of your dad. And it’s just one of those things, like, you know, you have conversations with people and you don’t put two and two together, but it’s just, those are the kind of things that, you know, give me solace in the field that we have and the education that we have that even, you know, this person who was, you know, happened to be his student, you know, when they were in eighth grade, you know, in science class at Bell Valley, you know, junior high, that, you know, that person went on to be a science teacher because he helped instill that love of science in them. And so those are just little, little things that every once in a while catch me off guard because, you know, you never heard that story before, somebody didn’t feel like, or didn’t have the opportunity to share. And so I just, that’s one of those things that I think that in education, especially that we as educators have to make sure that we remember the impact that we have on kids and on our community. And, but we also need to make sure that not forget to share with those educators and those important people in our lives, how much they, they mean to us too, because you know, there’s sometimes we forget to do that. And so, you know, we may not always hear the impact that we have, but we can at least make sure that others hear the impact that they have on us.

Sam Demma
This is your reminder mid podcast to pause the show. Go on your phone, search up that contact that person you haven’t let know how big of a contribution they made in your life to just call them and tell them, um, I’m already thinking of someone I’m going to call after this podcast ends.

Ryan Wamser
It takes two seconds to shoot a text message or, um, you know, I’m not a Facebook guy, so I get, I don’t have those connections, but it takes two seconds to send somebody a direct message, uh, shoot them a text message. even those people that I consider to be closest friends and I go, man, I haven’t talked to that person in months or we haven’t had an extended conversation with.

Ryan Wamser
And it’s just, it’s hit home, especially in the last, lots of things have hit home, especially in the last five years, but it’s been one of those things that to make a conscious effort, to be intentional about those relationships and making sure that we’re reaching out to those people because you know may not have the opportunity to.

Sam Demma
You’re someone who has served nearly every level of education from teacher to superintendent. How have the different roles you’ve served shaped your understanding of what schools and educators truly need to be successful?

Ryan Wamser
Well, when you read off my list of my experience, I still consider myself to be a young guy. I know I’m not, but it makes me just think I can’t hold the job down when you list everything. So, you know, that’s my running joke is I can’t keep a job. But, you know, I think it’s really, it’s changed. My perspective has changed, especially, you know, post pandemic and what we should be doing.

Ryan Wamser
You know, I grew up in a kid’s first household. Like literally my dad was coaching year round and he never, you know, he was at school more than he was at home. You know, he was up at 5 a.m. dragging the ball fields because they had a softball game that afternoon. You know, he, you know, wasn’t at my games because he was coaching games. And it’s one of those things that, you know, 10 years ago, you know, 22 years ago when I started in my career, we all talked about, you know, kids first, kids first, kids first, kids first. And everything was about making sure we did everything for our students, everything for the kids that we interact with. And I think my perspective has changed in 20 years, 20 plus years that, you know, we can’t do anything for kids if we’re not taking care of ourselves as the adults in the building. And I joke, but it’s true.

Ryan Wamser
If five years ago I was doing a professional development for teachers and I walked in and said kids aren’t first, kids are second, and the adults in your building, if I told a group of principals, the adults, the teachers in your building were the most important thing in the school, I would have probably been run out of that. Because it’s like, that’s very self-centered and why would we talk about the adults being the most important thing? But at the end of the day, if we’re not taking care of ourselves and we’re being taken out on a stretcher in the middle of a game or from our office, or who’s gonna be there to step up and help kids if we’re not taking care of ourselves?

Ryan Wamser
So in order to put kids first, we have to put ourselves first. And I think that perspective has really changed as teacher, administrator, superintendent, and the work that I’ve done, that my job is now to try to pour into our educators and make sure that they’re taking care of themselves because the impact is there, but at the end of the day, like, this sounds crude, but, you know, on January 4th, 1994, when my dad died, on January 5th, 1994, the eighth grade kids at Bell Valley South School still had math class. Like, school continued. It didn’t shut down. Yeah, his colleagues were sad. Kids were dealing with it. We had the funeral, we did all that, but school continued. And so, but he wasn’t there to be there. So we have to take care of ourselves because this is going to go on with or without us, and we need to make sure that we’re taking care of what’s important, which is our family and our friends, and we can’t do that if we’re not here. And so I think that’s perspective for me has changed a lot in the last 22 years that, you know, it should be adult first. And I think for many of us in a giving profession, that’s hard to hear that I’m gonna put, you know, others second so that I can put myself first.

Sam Demma
One of my favorite speakers and authors is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, and I talk about him quite a bit. And he has a phrase in one of his lectures where he says, the most important thing you could provide to a relationship, whether it be professional relationship or personal relationship, is your own personal development. Because if you became more valuable yourself, think about how much more you could contribute to that other person, whether it’s a professional or personal relationship.

Sam Demma
And he said, you know, the people would say, I’ll take care of you if you take care of me. And he said, no, I’ll take care of me so that I can take care of you and you’ll take care of you so that you can take care of me. And that’s the principle or the philosophy that came to mind while you were just talking about the importance of putting ourselves first in terms of our health and wellbeing so that we can pour into others.

Sam Demma
How do you put yourself first? What are some of those practices that help Ryan stay grounded and able to show up every single day at his best?

Ryan Wamser
Well, I’m gonna preface this by saying that, none of us are perfect people, so it’s hard to stand up here and be an example of that because I’m not a great example. To be completely honest with you, in September of 2020, I was a burnt out educator

Ryan Wamser
and I walked away from the superintendency. I quit my job. I was 385 pounds, I was having anxiety attacks, panic attacks, and all that I was not taking care of myself. And so I had a colleague of mine who was also superintendent, who we were talking about, you know, our impacts on on kids and, and my dad’s name got brought up. And I said, it’s pretty cool, the school that he taught at.

Ryan Wamser
They named the gymnasium after him after he passed away, his name’s on the building. I said, that’s kind of a cool impact. And my friend, also superintendent, said, Ryan, do you want a building named after you? Or do you want a gym named after you?

Ryan Wamser
Or do you want to see your kids graduate college? And it was one of those like, you know, truth bombs that I had to take. And I had to step back and, you know, have a conversation with my wife to say, you know what, in the current context that I’m living,

Ryan Wamser
I cannot take care of myself and still do the job that I’m doing. And now most people don’t have that opportunity to say, you know what, I’m gonna leave. You know, we talk about privilege. That’s a pretty big privilege to have a wife that says, you know what, we need you, so you do what you gotta do.

Ryan Wamser
So yeah, so I do feel like I’m a failed superintendent because I walked away at that time. I took nine months off. I focused on my health, I focused on, you know, being a good father and a good husband. Like I said, though, most, unfortunately, most people can’t just quit their job and walk away to be able to do that. So that’s part of what my mission is now, you know, it’s the whole adage of, you know, the reason why the universe or God asks us to go through hard things is so when we get through the other side, we’re there to help other people get through it as well. And so that’s kind of my mission in life now is to make sure nobody gets to the point where I was where they have to walk away because our profession is the most important profession in the world as educators. And we’re losing good people, because we don’t have those people that are there to help them and pull them through.

Ryan Wamser
So for me, it’s now in my life, five years later, my health is the most important thing to me so that I’m there for my kids, being a good husband, being a good father, making sure that I have those connections with what I call B12 people in my life.

Ryan Wamser
So these are people that, like taking a B12 supplement every morning that elevate my, you know, my mood. And so I surround myself with B12 people, people that when I, I know I can talk to them at any moment, and they’re going to elevate me, they’re gonna make me better. So I have those, those, you know, that strong, small group of people that I can contact. And it’s not just people that, and that’s the thing I think we misuse that about making sure you have a strong support system because sometimes that strong support system are the people that we know we can call and complain to and vice versa, they can call and complain to us. But I also think these are also the same people that you have to be able to have a good, strong group of people who you can call and complain to us. But I also think these are also the same people that you have to be able to have a good strong group of people who you can call and celebrate to. Like you say, if I picked up the phone, I’m sure there’s five or six people that would call and let me complain about my life. Let me air all my dirty laundry out. But who are the people right now that if you had to pick up the phone and tell them some great news, who was going to be there to be a huge cheerleader, who’s going to not make it about them, who’s going to be like, tell you that’s the greatest news they’ve ever heard and just pump you up. We got to have that. And we got to have those relationships because I’ll tell you that the higher up you get in education, going from teacher to principal, from principal to district office superintendent, the less you have of those people because teachers have built in colleagues at the same level with them. They have those friends, those people in the teacher’s lounge, they become principal.

Ryan Wamser
You can’t have those same relationships with the teachers now that you’re in charge of. And then it gets even less when you become superintendent. And so having that support system, having those people around you is huge to your mental and emotional health. In addition, again, pouring into yourself, making sure that you’re taken care of, diet, exercise, and then I get on my soapbox and preach this all the time. The most underrated yet most important aspect diet, exercise, and then I get on my soapbox and preach this all the time. The most underrated yet most important aspect to our physical, mental, and emotional health is making sure we’re taking care of ourselves when it comes to sleep habits. And so that’s another one that I preach to my administrator colleagues, that making sure that they’re taking care of themselves when it comes to sleep, because nothing else can matter if we’re not getting good sleep. And those are all things, looking back five years ago, I wasn’t sleeping well, wasn’t healthy, didn’t have those people that I was actively searching for to reach out to, to be part of my inner circle. And so not only do I do that now, but then I make sure that I’m part of those people’s inner circle as well to hold people accountable and expect them to hold me accountable as well.

Sam Demma
I’m going to start asking people before they enter my circle. Show me your vitamins. Show me your vitamins stack.

Ryan Wamser
It is true. Here’s a little trick that I came up with over Christmas this year. I had a friend of mine who I taught with, and he said, and he retired and he went back and now he’s teaching at a Catholic school because he’s retired from the public school system. And he said the diocese, the Catholic school, gave every teacher a $500 bonus at Christmas time. I was like, man, that’s awesome. That doesn’t happen in the public school system.

Ryan Wamser
It’s not built in to give bonuses. And so I was just pumping them up, telling them how great that was. And he goes, you know what? I called some of my friends that I used to teach with and I was excited about this $500 bonus.

Ryan Wamser
And I just wanted to share with somebody. And he goes, none of them were happy for me. None of them were happy for me. And so it just made me realize like, you know what, so think about that. Now, we’re probably not going to call people that we win the Powerball or the mega jackpot. All your friends. On a small scale, you went 500 bucks at a local raffle or grocery store or something, you know, who would you call and who would be

Ryan Wamser
fired up and excited for you? I mean, that’s something that’s just a little simple thing that I thought of over Christmas, like, who’s going to be there to tell you how great you are and how awesome that is? Or who’s going to make it about themselves? Or flip it around? Man, I wish I had 500 bucks. Well, can you give me five? Give me some of that? No. And that’s just a little something, like who are those people that, like I said, who are those B12 people that are gonna be there to cheer you on?

Sam Demma
I love that frame. It’s such a powerful way to look at connection and relationships and the people we wanna spend more time surrounding ourselves with. I, about a year ago now, was sitting at a restaurant eating dinner before a speaking engagement the next day for 800 high school students for a STEM conference. And I like talking to strangers, especially when I’m traveling alone. So I sat up by the bar and was watching the hockey game. This gentleman was sitting beside me just under his breath saying stuff about the game.

Sam Demma
And I made some funny comments that related to what he was saying. And we start talking and we end up sitting at that bar for four hours. His name’s Ron and he’s now a close friend.

Sam Demma
We talk maybe once every two months over the phone. That was our only interaction in person. And every once in a while, he’ll just call me and share some ideas that he thinks are helpful for the work that I’m doing. Out of the blue, Sam, here’s some ideas for you. And he calls me this one day and he goes, do you got a paper? Grab a piece of paper right now. I’m like, okay, Ron, I’m grabbing some paper. I run over to my desk and I put this paper down and he goes, Sam, think about this as something you could share on stage.

Sam Demma
Every day, our phone rings dozens of times. And throughout the course of our lives, our phone rings thousands or millions of times. And in a split moment, we look at the phone, we look at the name of the person who’s who’s calling us, and we make a decision, do we pick up the phone? Or do we let it ring through to voicemail or hang up? How do you live your life in a way that when your name shows up on someone else’s phone, they always pick it up. And I was like, whoa, this is such a cool idea.

Sam Demma
And while you were talking about those people you can call, I also thought about, you know, how you said, you know, you also wanna be that person for others and would they pick up the phone call and would they be excited to call you? I think is just as powerful as a frame.

Sam Demma
And shout out to Ronald McDougal. Thanks for the thanks for that. And anyway, I’m getting sidetracked a little bit just passionate about that whole idea of making sure that we’re surrounding ourselves with good human beings, and being there to support and celebrate and to answer the call when other people are wanting to support or wanting to be celebrated.

Sam Demma
There are lots of different involvements and developments going on in education. What do you think are some of the big opportunities that exist currently in education?

Ryan Wamser
Well, I think the opportunity is how do we get back this, how do we reframe educations that we’re getting people into the field? I think that’s our biggest, our biggest problem, especially in Illinois is, you know, we lack the numbers of teachers that we need, you know, to fulfill the jobs that we currently have, let alone what’s going to happen in the future. You know, when I first started off as an assistant principal and we’d get a job opening, back when everybody sent paper resumes and packets in, we would have like nine paper box, you know, like copy paper boxes. We’d have like nine paper boxes full of job applicants, you know, just, and now, you know, you’re lucky if you get six people to apply for a job, you know, and so that’s the opportunity I think is, got to go back to, you know, I grew up, like I said, my dad was an educator, all of his friends were educators, I never heard them. Talk, I never I’ve never heard them say anything negative about education negative about their jobs, they love their jobs, they, they always were laughing always were having a great time. You know, they spent all of their free time at school, which means I spent all my free time at school.

Ryan Wamser
And so we have the opportunity now to reframe the fact that yes, it’s not the same as it was in the early 80s education and teaching is, but we have the opportunity. It’s still the greatest profession in the world in my opinion.

Ryan Wamser
And how do we reframe that so that we get away from, well, I don’t want my kids being teachers. I don’t want them being teachers. Oh, you know, and a lot of those people that are saying that are our teachers, you know, that are saying, I don’t want my kids. And so we have the opportunity to reframe that and truly, um, you know, we have to do our best to, to raise up kids that, like me, who the reason why they are who they are is because of their teachers. And I think if we can reframe that, we have the opportunity to truly take back education and get good people back in the field. Because right now it’s a real struggle to recruit and retain people. And I think part of that is, you know, having great leaders, we have to make sure we’re supporting them. We have to make sure we trust them. We have to make sure we give them what they need. And then we have to get out of their way.

Ryan Wamser
And then hold people accountable when we need to. I think that’s part of any good relationship is to hold people accountable because we all want to be held accountable when we need to be. But I think that’s the big opportunity that we have. And I think it’s going to be a make it or break it here in the next couple of years of whether or not we’re going to be able to fulfill these positions.

Sam Demma
It’s the same in Canada. It’s the same among many of the people that I talk to in education right now. It’s one of the reasons I started this podcast was to share the story of educators that are loving the work they’re doing and sharing the journey about how they got there. So I hope that these sorts of conversations play some role in getting some more young people excited about the work. And I appreciate the  intention you have on shifting the conversation. I think it starts with that awareness and that intention. So thank you for the work that you’re doing. Thank you for spending some time here on the podcast today to share about your experiences and philosophies around education and the importance of adult first, or wellness and self development first before before others and other things to talk a little bit about the needs of educators or what it means to succeed in terms of our own well-being and placing that first. I really enjoyed just chopping it up and learning more about you and your journey. And I look forward to meeting again this summer.

Sam Demma
Until then, keep up the amazing work you’re doing. And we’ll talk again soon, right?

Ryan Wamser
Likewise, Sam, I appreciate you. Appreciate everything that you’re doing.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Ryan Wamser

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 8, 2025 by Director of Education Educator Superintendent 0

Helen Pereira-Raso – Head of School at Holy Trinity School

Helen Pereira-Raso – Head of School at Holy Trinity School
About Helen Pereira-Raso

Helen Pereira-Raso is the Head of School at Holy Trinity School, a highly progressive and innovative Canadian Independent School located in Richmond Hill, ON. In her role as Head of School at Holy Trinity School (HTS) Helen brings a forward-thinking, progressive approach to education that is the foundation for HTS’s reputation as leaders in learning.

Helen’s career as an educational leader has always focused on what matters most — developing a school culture in which all learners, adult and young alike, are able to explore, create and learn in meaningful ways. She is committed to professional learning as essential in the journey of educators and has led workshops globally. 

A visionary leader, Helen has been instrumental in building the HTS Learning Network, an ecosystem that is dedicated to learners, adult and young, experiencing relevant, personalized and meaningful learning experiences. Her leadership and innovative approaches, combined with her passion and commitment to developing learning environments that inspire all learners, are what drive her life’s work. 

Connect with Helen Pereira-Raso: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Holy Trinity School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we have a very special guest. Today’s guest is the head of school at Holy Trinity School in Richmond Hill. Helen Pereira-Raso has established herself as a visionary leader in progressive education, championing a culture where both students and adults can explore, create, and learn meaningfully.

Sam Demma
Her creation of the HTS Learning Network demonstrates her commitment to building educational ecosystems that prioritize personalized, relevant learning experiences. A globally recognized educator, Helen’s forward-thinking approach and dedication to professional development has positioned Holy Trinity School as a leader

Sam Demma
in innovative education. Helen, thank you so much for taking the time out of your schedule to be on the show today. I’m honored to have you.

Helen Pereira-Raso
It’s so wonderful to be with you here again, Sam, and to be in conversation with you. It’s always a joy and learning from you. Love every minute of it.

Sam Demma
Please introduce yourself and tell the educator listening a little bit about the reasons you got into education in the first place.

Helen Pereira-Raso
My story is, oh, my journey into education might be a little bit different than most. People often talk about the love that they had, the most amazing teachers they’ve had that inspired them into education. And for sure, I’ve had some incredible educators in my journey, but it wasn’t the impetus for me to get into education.

Helen Pereira-Raso
So I have taught both in the public system here in Ontario in my 25 year journey and counting, I’m not anywhere near retiring or ever wanna retire. 25 years, both started in the public system in Dufferin Peel and then moved into the independent school system.

Helen Pereira-Raso
And so I’ve had the honor of teaching in both of our systems here in Ontario and learning in each of them. And the reason I got into education was because I had a teacher who used to tell me that I was going to amount to nothing. And that is something that has stuck with me till this ripe old age that I will not disclose at this time. But it really was something that impacted me. I think I went through an

Helen Pereira-Raso
elementary school journey where teachers, just the teachers that I had in my life were inspiring, were supportive. As an immigrant to this school, to this country, I started school not speaking English, and I don’t ever remember feeling different or not feeling supported or cared for. And so that was my elementary school journey where I felt like I thrived and I had support and I believed in myself and had confidence. And then I got to high school and high school is always a little bit messier. And we personally go through lots of things, relationships, friendships, understanding yourself. But in that moment, you know, for me,

Helen Pereira-Raso
that journey was filled with also some educators who weren’t the kindest, I would say today, but at that time was normalized. And it left an impact on me at a time that I was perhaps most vulnerable and questioning what was I going to do with my life. It was grade 11 when this all happened and I’ll never forget it. And so I promised myself that as I started to go and to explore what my career options were going to be, I volunteered back at my high school when I was in university.

Helen Pereira-Raso
I volunteered at a law firm because I thought I’m either going to be a lawyer or I’m going to be a teacher. which one is it? And in that journey, I came to discover that I wanted to teach, I wanted to be the teacher that no kid ever felt that they were alone because of me. And so that’s really been what’s guided me,

Helen Pereira-Raso
what’s been my sense of purpose is that I will always be here to make sure kids know that they belong and that they’re worth it and they have everything they need within them to thrive and succeed with the right people around them to build them up.

Sam Demma
There’s a speaker named Josh Shipp and he says every student is one caring adult away from being a success story. And I could not agree more that the words of a caring adult can build us up or completely tear us down. And sometimes we forget about that latter section of that statement. The words that we choose to use and the actions we take impact the thoughts other people have and their emotions and as a result, their actions and outcomes.

Sam Demma
And it’s funny. I there’s a, there’s a moment in my career when I was 20 years old, where I made a decision not to join a specific agency. And the owner of the agency told me, Mark, this day down is the best or worst decision you ever made in your entire life. And it was someone that I flew to the US to meet

Sam Demma
and bought their books and programs and took their courses. And I remember how much self doubt I experienced. And it was not only someone I aspired to be like, it was someone I wanted to work with. And I spent a couple of months really doubting

Sam Demma
my abilities and myself. And then one day I woke up and I grabbed a marker and I opened the calendar and I put, I went back to the date and I wrote down best decision you ever made. And I had this little chip on my shoulder for a few years. And it sounds like that was something that drove you to, I’m curious did you in those moments how did you how did you deal with those emotions in that experience?

Helen Pereira-Raso
You know it probably not in the best way I was 17 years old yeah you can only imagine that you know in that moment I’m I truly that that teacher, the intentions behind their words wasn’t what I made meaning of. I truly believe that. But what we sometimes lose sight of that I can reflect on now is that, and it’s just as you said, Sam, our words matter and they matter more than we actually might think.

Helen Pereira-Raso
And so I made meaning that here’s somebody that I respect. It was one of my favorite classes. So like you, I’m like, what? And how could this teacher say this about me?

Helen Pereira-Raso
I love her class. I love her.

Helen Pereira-Raso
What’s going on?

Helen Pereira-Raso
Where’s the disconnect here? And I don’t actually believe that this was about her. It was a moment about me. The meaning I made from her words was that I wasn’t good enough. And that started with my own self-doubt. And I didn’t realize in that moment.

Helen Pereira-Raso
So it became a lot of, I skipped her class, stopped going, I don’t want to deal with her, I was flippant. And so my frustrations with her words and what I understood her to say about me or to the judgments she passed on me was to just be defensive and not, you know, not engage in my own self-reflection at that time. But years later, the beautiful thing is that we do get the chance to reflect no matter how long

Helen Pereira-Raso
it takes us. And so, you know, in my journey now and as I, you know, I’ve told this story before to students that, you know, you think I got into teaching because yes, I love young people and I love being around them. They are my greatest inspiration. Like there’s not a bad day when you’re with a young person. There’s always something that inspires you. But my journey started from a place where somebody really didn’t think that I was good

Helen Pereira-Raso
enough, that I respected. But what I’ve come to understand is that’s exactly what I needed for me to truly do the self-dig, that self-work to say, actually, you can do this. Why are you letting her words impact you like this? That’s on you. That’s on you.

Helen Pereira-Raso
She’s moved on. She’s got other classes now. What she said is not even on her radar. This was on me. And so I think it took me a few years. It took me time to be away from it,

Helen Pereira-Raso
to finally realize actually that was a moment that was a catalyst to do my self-work that I hadn’t necessarily been provoked to do in the same way.

Sam Demma
A lot of students deal with the self-doubt without the additional words of others that they look up to telling them they can’t do something. Once you got into education, how did you practically build belief in young people? What are the things you could do in the classroom or what are

Sam Demma
the things you did do to make sure that young people knew, you know, you are supported here, you are welcomed and you are enough.

Helen Pereira-Raso
I listened. I didn’t come into my classes, both as a teacher and as a leader, assuming I knew what they needed. I had lots of conversations. I continue to have conversations. I ask their input.

Helen Pereira-Raso
I encourage them to be part of decision-making. When I started this career in a community that probably taught me my greatest lessons, students that were torn between gangs, that were in and out of jail, and bright, beautiful human beings, all of them,

Helen Pereira-Raso
where they were in their journeys and how they were showing up in my class and in the world and bright, beautiful human beings, all of them.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Where they were in their journeys and how they were showing up in my class and in the world was just different for each of them. And in that time, I remember teaching a history class and I was taught, I was about to teach World War I and a kid at the back of the class turned to me and he was like, what the bleep are you teaching me about this war? I’ve got my own war to deal with on the street

Helen Pereira-Raso
and I stopped because I’m like what? And he’s like do you think I care what happened in the 1920s and 30s like that is so irrelevant what I want me to talk want to talk about war come hang out with me on the street one day.” And I’m like, oh my, oh my God. And that was not anywhere in my lessons, but what that taught me in that moment was, Helen, maybe the curriculum needs to look a little bit different. Maybe actually I could talk about what some of the things that happen in war, what drives

Helen Pereira-Raso
us to build alliances, what drives us to join gangs, what drives us to, you know, military up through the stories of my students, because I can draw connections. Because in that moment, it didn’t matter what I had to teach him, it actually was irrelevant because of the life experiences he was going through. I taught geography through skateboarding.

Helen Pereira-Raso
We looked at urban planning through skateboard parks. Where do you put them? How do you put them? Because the moment, what I needed to realize in that moment is if I don’t know my students, what I’m doing there doesn’t actually matter. Because my work is to help them understand and make sense of the world, their world.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Yes, the curriculum is a vehicle, but it’s actually just about showing up for them. And so I let them know that they matter through listening. I let them know that they matter through incorporating their stories and their experiences in my lessons. I taught religion using Tupac’s poems because that’s what mattered to them. And it forever changed me. And so today we have all of these theories in education around making learning personal, making sure that it’s personalized for the students,

Helen Pereira-Raso
meet them where they are. I got a hard lesson first year, 23 years old, teaching. My students taught me that before anybody was talking about it as pedagogy and the future of education and how we should be. My students taught me that when they said to me, pay attention to me and my story, not what’s in your textbook. That’s how you let them know they matter. That’s how you let them know that you’re there for them.

Helen Pereira-Raso
When you show up the next day and you’re like, you guys haven’t had lunch. Okay. I’ve got you there snacks here. If you need anything, come get them as you need them. You can always come into my classroom. You can always come into my office.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Do you need a minute? Let’s take a walk. When you hear them, when you feel them, when you know that, you know, they’re in your class and they’re just not the way you’ve come to know them and the way they’ve been, and you pause for a moment to recognize that, then they know you’ve got their back. And there’s not a single child who doesn’t deserve that from all of us in this profession.

Sam Demma
What a powerful lesson to learn at such a young age in the profession and carry forward with you.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Forever. They changed me forever. They made me better. Those first five years of my life at that school made me the best human being and the best teacher I could possibly be. Can you tell me more about the journey up until now,

Sam Demma
the different schools you were a part of and the roles you played? Yeah. So I started as a geography civics poly sci high school

Helen Pereira-Raso
teacher. I’m trained in high school grades 4th right through to grade 12, but spent most of my time working in high school, especially in the public system. And in this first school that I taught everything that we were assigned. You’re a first year teacher, and your first five years of teaching whatever anybody gives you a job, and you’re happy about it, and you work your butt off, and you know you’re better for it.

Helen Pereira-Raso
And then throughout that journey, I thought I coached, I made sure that I could be part of supporting my students, all of that. And then in that journey, I became a better person for my kids, not my kids, sorry, for the students that I’m a part of. And so my first year, my first five years, I was a school out in Brampton, and I really got,

Helen Pereira-Raso
I always say that that school taught me how to be the best teacher to students. It was such a beautiful, diverse community, students coming from all kinds of experiences, all faiths, traditions, customs, point of views, and life experiences, some very privileged and some not so privileged. And in that mix, those students helped me listen, learn to listen, learn to make connections that

Helen Pereira-Raso
were meaningful to their life, and help me set a foundation for what it meant to be a great educator. I transferred to a new school that was just starting up north of Brampton. And in that journey as being part of a founding team of teachers, it’s always exciting

Helen Pereira-Raso
that you get to shape the school, shape the culture. It’s a brand new building. We were in a warehouse for the first few years. We got to our beautiful new building. It was like, whoa, this place is so cool. But there I had the opportunity to transition into a role as a student success leader, a

Helen Pereira-Raso
teacher at the school. And I got to work with students who are at risk of not graduating, and to mentor them and work closely with them towards their graduation pathway while also teaching classes. And so that coaching opportunity to work one-on-one with students and families to help them find their success and different academic pathways that would allow them to get to graduation, you know, really opened up my eyes to the different ways students can actually be successful and there’s not one path in school. I lived far from that school in North Brampton and while I was on maternity leave I had an opportunity to then transition to a school here in Toronto, an independent school in

Helen Pereira-Raso
Toronto and it was the first time that I taught in an all-girls community and so that was amazing. So it was my first independent school and there, the thing that I always say that changed me about coming into the independent school system is I learned how to be a professional in my craft. Learned how to do research, I learned how to, you know, how to really get good at, you know, different teaching strategies, resources, professional development, so much was invested in me to

Helen Pereira-Raso
be excellent at my craft. And so the level of professionalism that I brought changed from the on-the-ground grassroots work of being in the classroom in the public system. So I had access to this amazing amount of resources. Our students were so motivated. You know, the same diversity, same experiences, but there was more homogeneity in their life experiences and the supports that

Helen Pereira-Raso
they had and the resources they had. But the thing is, is that kids still can feel depression, exclusion, isolation, all of those things, no matter where you are in life or what your background is or social economic status is, all of those human experiences are still real for every single child. And so the work that I brought from learning and working with students who have had such difficult challenges and obstacles in life that taught me about resilience, that taught

Helen Pereira-Raso
me about perseverance when things were so tough. That’s the thing that they taught me the most. I was able to bring some of that coaching and mentoring to our students who had resources, who had privilege, but still were suffering and needed that support. And so that’s, as I transitioned to the independent school there, I started as a classroom teacher, moved into leadership, and then in my leadership started working more with,

Helen Pereira-Raso
although still teaching, which is so important, I got to work more with the adults and working with our teachers on their journey and how they can show up and be the best for every child that’s in their classroom and diversify their lessons

Helen Pereira-Raso
and think about how their work is meaningful to their own students in different ways. And then eventually from that leadership role, I then moved into a systems leadership role in the independent school system as a head of school, which is the current role I have now, which allows me to really make some important decisions and set vision and strategy for the school we want to be, and work with our staff and our students and our families and our board on really setting clear

Helen Pereira-Raso
strategic goals and vision and values that align with who we aspire to be and how we’re going to meet children, young people in their lives. I always have to correct myself on the children beat because they’re not all children. Just how we meet young people in their lives and how do we provide, you know, the best learning experience for them regardless of where they people in their lives and how do we provide the best learning experience for them regardless of where they are in their learning pathway

Helen Pereira-Raso
because everybody deserves that. And so that journey, my journey has taken me to that role now. And that’s where I am in a very, very privileged place as a systems leader to enact policies that support students and give them the tools and the resources they need

Helen Pereira-Raso
to thrive and to mentor and coach educators to be the best for themselves, but also for those that they serve, because our work is of service to others. And as you’ve said very, very often, and as I’ve gotten to hear you speak a few times now,

Helen Pereira-Raso
you have to take care of yourself so that you can give all of yourself to someone else. And so that work is so important to kind of unpack where you are and who you are and how you’re showing up in order to be the best, not only for you, but for those in your care and your stewardship.

Helen Pereira-Raso
So that’s where my journey has taken me. And I’ve always said, educators are the stewards of humanity. And we are, in fact, actually. We are shaping humanity for generations. And so if that work doesn’t matter, I don’t know what does actually. The work is the most important work.

Sam Demma
And I was speaking to another educator recently who told me that there’s been a shortage in their district of teachers. And he said, we have to find a way to reframe education so that more people get involved and excited about it but it is so clear that your passion and excitement is shining right through during this interview and I know that any school or young person or staff

Sam Demma
member that you interact with and touch is left better than when you found them. I’m curious when it comes to your own personal development and professional development, what are a few of the things that have been incredibly valuable for you that another educator listening may look into themselves if they want to continue improving their craft and just showing up better for themselves and the students that they teach?

Helen Pereira-Raso
I would say there’s three things that are really, that have left, you know, leave me in a place where I’m constantly in a learning mode. Your mindset is everything. And so for me, it’s working on being reflective. Whatever information I get daily, I try to make sense of it. What does that mean for me?

Helen Pereira-Raso
What could I have done differently? How could I have showed up differently? Even if it’s not about me, it is about me when we’re in community. There’s a collectiveness to our work. And so how could I have showed up differently?

Helen Pereira-Raso
So being a reflective practitioner, having the tools to ask yourself the hard questions. I write a lot about my thinking. I write weekly to our community and to our staff, and that gives me an opportunity to reflect on the week, to reflect myself as I prepare for those weekly communications on what’s going on in the school, why is it happening, what am I learning?

Helen Pereira-Raso
I’m also a learner, so I’m always reading any educational theory, any educational practice, any documents that come out about the future of education, what we need to do, how it impacts students, educators, the systems. I’m always, always reading. And that is important because it helps me stay on top of our craft and our profession and show up the best I possibly can for the generation that’s in front of me.

Helen Pereira-Raso
Because it’s not the same. The students that we have in our kindergarten class right now that are going to graduate in 2039, I cannot teach them the way that I did the class I taught in 1999. It is a different world. I didn’t even have a laptop in my class. Nobody had a phone. But that’s what it, you know, like, those are the things that are so different that I’m present in what’s changing in education. I think that allows me to show up and be the best that I possibly can in my craft. And I would say some of the PD that’s changed me the most has been doing my coaching certifications and to learn how to be a real

Helen Pereira-Raso
instructional coach, to learn how to have difficult conversations so that they’re honest and they build us to be better and stronger collectively and self. And so in every coaching conversation that I’m able to be a part of, it’s not just about coaching someone else. That moment teaches me something about me. Did I ask the right questions? Did I help that person in that moment? Is this what they wanted to be coached on?

Helen Pereira-Raso
Did I take them down a different path? So my coaching certifications that I’ve done through the national school reform faculty, the Roy group, they have been instrumental in helping me deepen my practice and be more reflective because when you’re a coach, you are. But also ask the right questions.

Helen Pereira-Raso
It’s so tough to ask people the right question to actually get to what’s at the heart of what the tension is that’s residing within them or the questions they have. And listening, really truly listening, active listening as we now call it, once upon a time was just really listening. But there is a difference. as we now call it. Once upon a time was just really listening.

Helen Pereira-Raso
But there is a difference.

Helen Pereira-Raso
We’ve all lived it. There’s truly a difference. Truly being present for people and listening, and then asking the right questions has been such a gift to changing how I show up professionally and who I am today versus who I was when I started my career.

Sam Demma
This has been such an inspiring conversation. Again, your passion just shines through. I know it’s an audio format, so people can’t see you smiling when you’re smiling, but I know they can feel it through their headphones. I’m so grateful that you’re doing the work,

Sam Demma
you’re doing an education, and I look forward to following the entire journey, wherever it takes you and the impact you continue to create. Keep up the amazing work. It’s inspiring to watch, and I’m excited to continue following.

Sam Demma
If someone’s listening and is inspired as well, and they wanna ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Helen Pereira-Raso
LinkedIn is probably the easiest. I’m always checking my LinkedIn. So if you just look me up at Helen Pereira-Raso on LinkedIn, you’ll find me. We can connect that way. And you can also find me on Instagram at htsheadofschool and email. And so you can email me at hraso@hts.on.ca, and I’m happy to have a conversation. I can’t thank you enough, Sam, for this opportunity to share my story, but it’s really easy when you wake up every day and you do what you love.

Sam Demma
Thanks, Helen.

Helen Pereira-Raso
That’s the game changer. And so just like you, continue to do what you love because that’s what fuels us and makes sure that we are ever so present that we are ever so present in the incredible journeys we share.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Helen Pereira-Raso

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

April 29, 2025 by Director of Education Educator 0

Robert Audet — Ottawa Campus Director at Lambton College

Robert Audet — Ottawa Campus Director at Lambton College
About Robert Audet

Robert Audet is an innovative leader in the educational sector with over three decades of experience. His entrepreneurial spirit has been a driving force behind his commitment to enhancing student services and educational opportunities. Robert’s most notable achievement is spearheading the establishment of an International Campus for Lambton College in partnership with Saint-Paul University in Ottawa, a project that reflects his dedication to expanding access to education.

Throughout his career, Robert has demonstrated a unique ability to build sustainable business models that serve students effectively. He began his journey by launching the first bookstore at Collège Boréal as a multi-stakeholder co-operative, successfully integrating various student services such as a cafeteria and temporary employment agency. His work with Desjardins and Laurentian University further underscored his commitment to fostering cooperative development and supporting individuals in their entrepreneurial pursuits.

At Cambrian College, Robert had the privilege of bringing together six areas of student life and services under one umbrella. This experience deepened his understanding of Indigenous culture and values as he collaborated with the Wabnode team. The knowledge he gained is something he is eager to bring forward in his current role, working with the Indigenous Centre at Saint-Paul University.

Robert is a firm believer in nurturing talent and guiding individuals along their unique paths to success. He emphasizes the importance of supporting both students and employees, recognizing that everyone has their own journey. By focusing on individual strengths and providing tailored support, Robert ensures that each person can thrive in their educational and professional endeavors. His collaborative approach and commitment to stakeholder engagement create an environment where innovation and growth flourish, ultimately leading to a more enriching educational experience for all.

Connect with Robert Audet: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Lambton College
Saint-Paul University
Collège Boréal
Laurentian University
Cambrian College,

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam, and today we are joined by a special guest, Robert Audet. Robert is an innovative leader who has dedicated over three decades to transforming the education sector. His entrepreneurial spirit has consistently driven improvements in student services and educational opportunities throughout his career. Most notably, Robert spearheaded the establishment of Lampton College’s international campus in partnership with St. Paul University in Ottawa, demonstrating a commitment to expanding access to quality education. He also spent a lot of time this weekend shoveling snow. Robert, thank you so much for taking the time to be on the podcast here today.

Robert Audet
Good morning, Sam. It’s my pleasure. I was looking forward to this chat and leaving the snow behind. Please take a moment to introduce yourself and explain what got you interested and involved in education. You kind of covered a little bit of what I’ve been doing. I guess I got hooked into education back in the 90s where I was working for a financial cooperative and then I got an opportunity to work for Laurentian University in a special project to help people on social assistance create their business plan, teach them some courses, some life skills that they needed to start a business and actually help them start their business. And so it was a very small team. So I got to teach courses. I got to bring in guests with special knowledge for our students and actually see them through the incorporation of worker co-ops and actually see them start their own businesses. And that got me hooked because the feeling of seeing them progress and getting their independence and just doing so well, that was enough for me. So when the French college in Sudbury opened up and opened up their first campus, Collège Boreal, I had the opportunity to go there and start a multi-stakeholder cooperative to run a lot of their student services. So I jumped on that opportunity real quick, started their cafeteria, their bookstore, their pub, their food services for the daycare center, et cetera, et cetera. So it was so overwhelming at the time, but at the same time, so challenging, so it just hooked me right in. And I’ve been mostly in the educational sector or there for a couple of years for most of my career after that.

Sam Demma
When you were helping with the student run businesses, would you consider your personality more like Robert or Kevin O’Leary?

Robert Audet
Not Kevin. I definitely always, I mean, especially, you know, that first initial project was done as a multi-stakeholder co-op, which was the first in Ontario. We were breaking ground. I had to make sure we had partners from the student body. First of all, I had nine students on my board of directors. I had three people from the college. It started with people, high-profile vice presidents in the college. And then I went out into the community to make sure to get some partners in there as well. So, you know, you try to get the expertise around the table. So, you know, you try to get an accountant at the table, you try to get a lawyer at the table. Little ways of saving money when you need some advice from your friends in the community, but it was such a collaborative approach, you know, creating it as a multi-stake cooperative, multi-stakeholder cooperative, that, you know, it was really about building all those relationships more than anything else.

Sam Demma
I think that’s the heart of education, building relationships with stakeholders, with community partners, with the students we’re aiming to serve and support. And you’ve been doing it for over three decades in education. I’m curious over the 30 years, like what fundamental changes have you observed in students’ needs and expectations? Maybe first when you started, what’s different about education today than it was then?

Robert Audet
I mean, I think what’s different is that we have a lot more diversity on any of the campuses right now. And there’s a lot of changes happening to international students coming to Canada for the last little while, let’s say since January. But so that’s different in the sense that, you know, some of the needs of the students could be different adapting to a new country, et cetera. But at the end of the day, it hasn’t really changed. If you really, if you really go down to what’s important when you’re dealing with students over there, like, like you mentioned three decades, I feel old now. No, it’s experience, it’s wisdom. But if you think about it, the reason I say it hasn’t changed is you have to take each student for who they are and try to bring them to the next level. And every student has their own journey. Yeah, they have a common thread of being in a certain program together or they have a common thread of coming from a certain area or, you know, they’re varsity players or whatever, whatever brings them to your campus. That’s just the start. Now you gotta, you gotta build trust with that student. You gotta make sure that they understand that they have someone on campus that they can go to if they meet any barriers or struggle with anything. And once that is built, then you can actually help them, well, actually to be able to help them to get to the level they need to be, you need to understand them. So too often people will say, we’re just here to lecture them. They have to figure it out their own way. But once you understand, and then I have the luxury of having a smaller campus here in Ottawa because we’ve just started a year ago, but the beauty of that is that you can actually meet your students. You can actually have some conversations, see what they’re struggling with, and make sure that they’re connecting with someone on the team. And that hasn’t changed, whether I was working for 20 years in student services at Cameron College or here at Lambton College in Ottawa, that has not changed. You have students, like I’ve met some students over the years, so many great relationships, you know, and I’ve learned probably more from them than they’ve learned from me just because they were growing through at times easy stuff, but at times very difficult things. And the fact that they trusted you to be there along with them to get them through that, I probably gave more to my worth of life and appreciation for life than anything else. And so I’ve worked with students at all levels, whether it was just to try and pass a course so that they can get to the next level, or whether it was to help them fit in to the college system because they had no friends, or whether it was to become one of the provincial leaders influencing where education is going.

And all of those were just as important as the next one because that’s where they were and that’s where they need to be. And then you look back and I guess I get to look back because it’s been 30 years. You look back at how well some of those students are doing. It’s just so much, it’s so rewarding. It’s just, that’s all I can say, very rewarding.

Sam Demma
That’s such a key idea that the external changes, the environment may change, the technology may change, the technology may change, the subjects we focus on may change, but the human being is the human being. We have similar human needs, whether it was 30 years ago or now, and making people feel like they have a person on campus who can support them, building trust, building the relationship, those things haven’t changed. One of my favorite speakers and authors is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, and he’s passed away now. In one of his lectures, he would always tell a story of a company that hired him to come and deliver a speech at their company to talk about the future of their industry, because they thought he had some great insights on it. And he said, he went and delivered a speech and he said, folks, I can confidently tell you that the industry is gonna be just like it’s always been. Unless you change, unless you change. And that made me think of what you just shared now about the fundamentals of building connections with young people. And that makes me curious when it comes to supporting young people and building that trust, what things can educators do to ensure that that trust gets built and they do feel supported and, and encouraged.

Robert Audet
It comes down to listening and listening to actually absorb what they’re going through, not just listen to pretend you’re listening. It’s really that simple. It’s making connections with people. And sometimes it’s harder. The bigger your campus is, like we had, my last campus, we had 6,000 students. I can’t say I knew every student. It’s just not possible, right? But the team that I led, though, we made sure to stay open to any student that would. So we wouldn’t say, oh, you know, if a student comes to me and it’s not my area, but they’re comfortable talking to me, we wouldn’t say just turn them away. We would make sure to bring them, actually walk them to the service they need, make the connection with them. And if they still felt more comfortable coming by my way first, my door was open, right? So it’s really about just listening and making that connection because the needs will vary drastically from each student.

Sam Demma
I think that listening is difficult in a world where there’s a distraction everywhere we look, whether it’s our phone buzzing, another conversation, an email popping on our computer screen. Listening sounds simple, but it’s sometimes very difficult to do. So I appreciate that reminder and I think it’s a timely one. When you started the role, I’m assuming someone didn’t pull you aside and say, Robert, it is your responsibility to build a partnership with St. Paul University. Can you talk about how that partnership was built and the value it’s provided to both campuses today?

Robert Audet
That’s a great question actually. And no, that’s not how that went down. The relationship was already started when I was hired on to come and start the campus, I guess, and manage the campus. They even had hired a few employees. And we’re a very small team right now in Ottawa, to come and start the campus, I guess, and manage the campus. The AIA even had hired a few employees, and we’re a very small team right now in Ottawa, seven plus our faculty. But it is a fantastic partnership. We’ve been growing the common areas, we’ve been growing how do we help each other in doing wellness activities, how we collaborate on different things, how we potentially work on research projects together, et cetera. But the idea was to develop a public to public institution partnership so that we can offer great programs and have the resources we needed in Ottawa to quickly be able to welcome new students. So they had room in their residence, for example. So we negotiated some rooms in their residence. So when students showed up, if they didn’t wanna stay on campus, that was fine. We would help them with housing as well, but they would have an opportunity to go there. So everything’s nice and close until they get used to our snow, our mountain of snow, since our first term was in January. But last year was nice.

Robert Audet
It was an easy winter. But you know, that’s just an example. We’ve collaborated at so many levels and having, being in this historical building here in Ottawa, I mean, I won’t be able to quote you on what year it was built, but I’m pretty sure it was in the 1800s. And it’s slowly being, you know, redone and modernized here and there, but while keeping its charm, right. And so every time I get visitors from our Sarnia campus, which has been there since 1966, they go, I can’t believe the atmosphere here. I want to move to Ottawa just to work in that building. And I go, yeah, I agree. It’s small enough that, you know, it’s a friendly atmosphere with the three partners, actually, Collège Boreal is on campus as well. And we’re building that relationship and we’re having a blast. We’re doing an EDI event in March coming up. And it’s fun because, you know, I had to take a step back when I was approached with the idea, would you apply for this job? Because my wife had just accepted a job here in Ottawa. And I’m like, yes, I should, and I will look into it. But what’s interesting is I had to take a deep look inside myself and go, I’ve done a lot of startups.

Robert Audet
Like even when I went to Cambrian College, it was a new startup, was a new student’s life center. Then I took on, I kept growing the department, right? It became six departments in one. And it was just, for me, it’s all about startups and making those relationships. So I was like, do I have another startup in me? That was the question. And I was like, yes, I do have another startup in me. I think I go to Ottawa and I have some fun. I meet some new people and I’ve been meeting some interesting, our faculty that we’re recruiting, industry experts, we’re having a blast with that. Like developing the relationship with St. Paul, like, you know, going to skate on the canal, uh, you know, building those relationships just to be able to have those conversations and build those relationships. Uh, Ottawa is just fantastic to be in. I I’m going to enjoy it until I, uh, until I retire here in Ottawa and then, and then I’ll go back home, but I have to visit Ottawa now that I know it.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you might have another startup in you after you leave this role. Maybe it’s something related to a business that you’d like to start after you finish. I don’t know, but I get the sense that maybe you will continue doing something.

Robert Audet
It’s funny you say that because I have, I was talking with one of the researchers from the university the other day and he goes when you do retire, you know You have a very good skill set on organizing people and getting stuff done So he says it’d be a shame for you just to put that to rest and I’m like, I’ll have to give it some thought I was thinking retirement man. I’m going cycling. I’m going kayaking But but time will tell right

Sam Demma
When it comes to entrepreneurship, I think there are so many skills that are so important for educators and students to carry forward. It sounds like you’ve surrounded yourself in the startup world and in the entrepreneurship world for a very long time, whether it was helping students start their businesses or literally building and starting departments on campuses. What are a few of the entrepreneurial traits that you think are important for educators and students to live out and carry forward each day?

Robert Audet
This almost sounds like one of my, it’s a different question, but I love the question, but I’ll spin it back a little bit. I’ll spin it back to a question I got when I was doing the interview for this position. I was asked, what are your number three traits that you’re looking for in an employee? And I remember saying, initiative, initiative, and initiative. And they’re all going, well, that’s one. I’m like, yes yes now let me explain right so so initiative is you know if you know something needs to get done get it done or find the right people to get it done or build the relationships that will get you there sometimes people try to take shortcuts though they try to get it done quickly and sure it gets you a quick result but if you time take the time to build the relationships around it not only will you get. But if you take the time to build the relationships around it, not only will you get it done, but you will get it done with buy-in. You will get it done with people that are wanting to see you succeed as much as they wanna succeed, because usually you help them succeed. If you’re entrepreneurial, I’ve had a few small businesses in my early career as well. If you wanna succeed, you only succeed by helping others succeed at whatever your services are. So in education, we’re helping people create careers. They come back and support the college as with the foundation or even just come in and do a presentation, support our students, take a co-op for our students, employ one of our students that’s just graduated. So you should never take a shortcut. It goes back to building those relationships, getting buy-in and building that respect.

Robert Audet
I have no doubt in my mind that if I ever in need of something, I can pick up the phone and call one of my many friends that I’ve made over the years and say, you know, do you have a contact that could help me with that? And we’ll find a solution. The one thing I have used in my entire career, well, I shouldn’t say my entire career, but after I heard it, which is probably close to 30 years ago, is, I don’t know who the author was, but it’s a statement that says, there’s no such thing as a problem, only opportunities to find solutions. You know, that inspires me every time I hear it, even though I’ve known it for like probably close to 30 years.

Robert Audet
Because if you go in with that mindset, you’re not just stopping at, I did my task today. You’re looking at how else can we make this better? You’re looking at who can I bring make this better? You’re looking at who can I bring in that will develop this with me? How can I surround myself with people that are smarter than me, that are better than me in so many skills, especially as I get older? I’m like, you know, you asked me what’s different and I said nothing. Well, that’s not true. I’ll tell you, technology is different. We just had a session on AI and then a session on academic integrity and how AI can impact it, etc. to help our faculty understand all the changes that are happening. And you know, am I the best person to actually offer that session? No, but I surround myself with people that have that high knowledge of AI, right? So it’s really about creating all those connections and always trying, if you’re entrepreneurial, stay a step ahead of the game. Wake up before everybody else, start your work before everybody else, try to know what’s coming ahead at you so you’re not surprised. And you’re likely finishing your day later than most people do. And as you get older, I guess harder.

Sam Demma
I’m taking a big theme away from all that around preparation, you know, preparing, taking initiative. I had a conversation with my uncle about, you know, how do you identify talent? And, and, um, the word for initiative he used was hungry, you know, same, same idea, like you go and get the work done. And he said, hungry, humble and smart. And the humble piece is also huge, you know, just reminding ourselves that we still have learning to do. We we are always students of the of the craft we’re working towards. And I think it’s just such an important reminder. There’s been moments in my life where I’ve really burned the midnight oil and read all the books. And then moments where I stopped reading as many books as I used to. And, and I catch myself every once in a while, why, why did I stop? You know, why did I, why did I get out of the game? You know, and, um, it’s, it’s, it’s really cool to hear about your passion for education.

Robert Audet
It’s not just about the books. The books are important, don’t get me wrong. There’s ways to fast track them nowadays too. Compared to the good old days when you read every word. I think for me, I’ve learned I learned more from everybody I meet, which is why I was looking so much forward to this interview, right. Then having a chat with you, because it doesn’t matter who you’re meeting with. If you’re actually taking the time to, to sit in and be present in that moment, you’re going to learn something every time. And I don’t care how old you are, how young you are. When sometimes people tell us stuff and we’re not ready to hear it or we’re not ready to absorb it and it comes back to us later and that’s okay but that and I guess that goes back to when I was saying you take every student to where they are and bring them that extra level right so sometimes it could be taken a student that is you know just barely surviving and you bring him up to you know oh I pass all my courses and they’re celebrating and they’re happy with that. And then you see them again two, three years down the road, now they’ve learned how to learn and they’re actually able to take on bigger challenges. And sometimes it’s actually just trying to keep up with a student that is so brilliant. You can’t keep up with them, but you support them and you eliminate barriers for them to make sure that they can keep running as fast as they can because they’re just a shining star going through the world. And you do your best to support that, like even though you can’t keep up. And you know what, that makes me happy because that’s the future. If I can’t keep up on with some of our students, that’s, that’s, that’s awesome.

Sam Demma
The mark of a great leader is when their students surpass them in many ways, you know, that’s why you build people up and lead them. And I am so grateful for you taking the time just to be here today to share some of your ideas around education, some of the things that have stayed the same and things that have adjusted or changed over the years, the importance of collaboration in working with other partners in the community and other educational institutions to drive forward common goals. Your passion for education is very obvious, and I hope as long as you continue to work in it you feel the same way about it and after you finish I will look forward to watching your business unfold. forward to watching your business unfold.

Robert Audet
Absolute pleasure, thank you.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Robert Audet

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

April 24, 2025 by Director of Education Education Student Leadership Student Success 0

Sean Kenney – Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education

Sean Kenney – Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education
About Sean Kenney

Sean Kenney is the director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education and the Coordinator for Community Learning, International Services, and Family of School Supervisor. Previous to his current role, he has been a dynamic classroom teacher, vice principal, and principal spanning 30 years in Manitoba, Quebec, and his home province of Nova Scotia. Although desperately missing being in a school each day working with students, he is broadening his impact within his regional of 6200 students.

Sean has always engaged students in thoughtful and meaningful ways while having a sharp focus on equitable practices that are safe and inclusive of everyone in his school community. Each year he welcomes over 250 students from at least 20 different countries into his schools and communities while serving as their custodian and ensuring that they have a rich Nova Scotian experience. 

Connect with Sean Kenney: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Nova Scotia International Student Program

Tri-County Regional Centre for Education

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by Sean Kenney, the Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Center for Education and the Coordinator for Community Living of International Services and Family of School Supervisor. But he’s been in education for a long time in Manitoba, in Quebec, in Nova Scotia. He works with international students from all over the world and I’m so grateful to have him on the show here today. Sean, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

Sean Kenney
Thanks so much, Sam. I appreciate the invitation.

Sam Demma
Where in the world are you tuning in from today?

Sean Kenney
That’s a great question. Most of my work is centered in Southwest Nova Scotia, so my office is in Yarmouth, one of the small towns in the southwest portion of the province. That’s where I am right now. However, some of my work takes me different areas of the world, including different parts of Canada where I first met you at the CAPSI conference in Niagara Falls last spring. Yeah, recently for work purposes I’ve traveled to Thailand and Vietnam for a couple weeks meeting with prospective students, partners, and agencies through our international student program.

Sam Demma
When young people, aspiring educators, think about education, most of the time they think about teaching in the classroom or being a principal of a local school, not traveling the globe recruiting students to come to Canada and to provide them with a home away from home and a life-changing experience. At what point in your own educational journey did you uncover international education, and how did you get involved?

Sean Kenney
That’s a great question. Many moons ago, you alluded to the fact that I’ve been in different provinces. And I began education, oh, 34, 35 years ago now, when I went to teacher’s college. So it’s been some time.

Sean Kenney
And at that time, I was really passionate thinking, okay, I’m going to be the, you know, a great math teacher. And that was my singular focus. And truth be told, I’ve taught a number of other subjects other than math. Over those years, you know, I’ve held different roles as a teacher from grade seven through 12. There’s been math, there’s been science, industrial arts, leadership, outdoor ed, you name it. You kind of try some different things. But then being a teacher and vice principal, I was first acquainted with the International Student Program in that regard at one of my previous schools in Shelburne County, Barrington High. We’d have a number of students come in and that was my first introduction to that. So over the course of the last 15 to 20 years, I’ve had kind of an arm’s length support of the International Student Program. During that time, I’ve got to meet a number of great students from all over the world. And then, as we started to develop programs in schools where we’re able to create a bigger network of host families, we were able to welcome more students.

Sean Kenney
And in doing so, we were able to put in a number of different programs in place to help support those students. It was a few years ago, the opportunity came up where the previous director for the International Student Program in our region took a job change. And I thought, okay, I’ve been a leader from a number of different schools and I’ve always felt for me personally, kind of four to six years is that kind of window where it’s important for the organization and the person to seek new opportunities and change. It’s good for everyone that we continue growth through taking new opportunities. So I said, okay, let me give this a try. And Sam, my eyes were blown wide open because certainly from this lens and the supporting role that I’ve got, I didn’t realize all that was involved in the International Student Program, having been a teacher, vice principal, and principal. Certainly, it’s been very alarming and enlightening to see all that’s involved in welcoming all these students in our program. We’ve actually got one of the most esteemed public school, high school programs in Canada.

Sean Kenney
It’s certainly well respected across the country. We’ve welcomed over 25,000 students across 70 different schools in Nova Scotia. In my particular region, we normally bring 200-250 students. Some will be here for as short as four weeks and some will be here for the full year. Some actually begin in grade 7, 8, 9 and they’ll continue for three or four years to graduate. It’s really exciting, the opportunities. And certainly, as you get to travel and meet different agents and partners, you get to see how my starting role 35 years ago as a math teacher has certainly changed greatly. However, not losing sight of the fact that we’re providing great educational experiences, not just for our Canadian students, but also welcoming students from so many different countries.

Sam Demma
For an educator listening to this, who’s aspiring to get into a school, but has never thought or considered about international education as a way they could provide an exceptional experience for young people and also make a contribution in slightly different ways.

Sam Demma
What are some of those services you provide or things you do on a day-to-day basis to paint a little bit of a picture for the role?

Sean Kenney
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I see my role right now within our region as two, you know, it’s, it’s, there’s many different things on my platter of responsibilities. And one of them is really specific around our 150 international students that are part of our program. a more rural way of life. And then there’s a lot of people coming from other countries and immigrating and moving into our communities. So all of our teachers and staff in all schools

Sean Kenney
have been forced to think of things in a different way, as far as a culturally responsive approach in welcoming all of our students and all of the different cultures in our schools. Previous to COVID, quite honestly, a number of our schools would have had limited experience to people from other countries unless it was through the International Student Program. In our region and across the province, that has traditionally been from grades 7 to 12. So a lot of our elementary schools didn’t have those opportunities. So when we think of those best teaching practices and school practices and creating welcoming schools, they were often limited to junior and senior highs. eyes. So now within our region and across the province, and I would guess across the whole country, this has become a wider focus for every educator.

Sam Demma
When you think about your journey in education and international education, who comes to mind as mentors or folks that have helped you and supported you in your professional and personal development? Yeah, that’s a great question. So, the founder and forefather of the Nova Scotia International Student Program was by the name of Paul Millman, and he’s recently moved on over the last couple of years to take on new ventures. So, certainly I was introduced to him while I was still a vice principal about 12 years ago at a conference in a little town named DeBert. And at that time, they brought together a number of administrators. So watching him and his passion from a distance has certainly been incredible.

Sean Kenney
As I’ve become part of the program, I get to see his far-reaching impact and passion and how he’s instilled that on every single… People are living and breathing the program. I think sometimes we take for granted that, you know, a regular classroom, it ends at three o’clock. Well, the International Student Program, it’s a 24-7, 365-day gig where we’ve got the responsibility for that incredible school experience, but as well, we run our own homestead. So it’s creating a network of quality families that welcome students in for this intercultural exchange that’s so rich.

Sean Kenney
So within our program, I’ve been mentored by a friend and colleague, someone actually oddly enough I knew back at Teachers College 35 years ago, and he and I have had similar kind of lived experiences professionally where, you know, he left Teachers College in the mid-90s, became a teacher, moved, you know, different opportunities. Sometimes opportunities present themselves to you by suggestion. People are thinking, hey, there’s an opportunity here, and I think you might be able to fill this need right now. And I think that’s often how people might step into a leadership role in education, especially when it comes to that of a vice principal. I don’t know that many people go in education thinking, wow, one day I’d love to be a VP or a principal. It kind of happens out of curiosity and just different lived experience where you keep building on different things. So he’s been a wonderful mentor as well as our entire program with this particular journey over the past two and a half years.

Sam Demma
What did those folks do for you that had the greatest impact?

Sean Kenney
I think when you bring varied experiences to a new role and set of responsibilities, it’s around validating some of those curiosities, thinking, okay, is this kind of what’s expected? Am I heading in the right direction. He would provide a number of suggestions to me and he was always there for support when I needed.

Sean Kenney
There’s a lot of text messages and emails, hey, in this situation, it’s new for me but probably not for you. This is what I’m kind of talking through those. Because when you’re dealing with, you know, when you’re dealing with humans, man, there can be some high emotions, big emotions, and you definitely want to make sure you get things right. There’s no playbook that’s black and white. We live in the gray when we’re supporting our kids and families, right?

Sam Demma
I think the unique thing about having a mentor who’s been working in a similar field for such a long period of time, is like you mentioned, it may be new for you, but for them, it could be something they’ve experienced dozens or hundreds of times. And there’s a phenomenal book by a guy named Ray Dalio called Principles, and he talked about a mentor that he had in the book, and he would bring him his challenges, and the mentor would say, oh, it’s just another one of those.

Sam Demma
He categorized a lot of his challenges into buckets of things that his mentor had experienced in the past. And even if they haven’t experienced it based on the breadth of their whole experience, they can probably help make a good suggestion even if they’ve never faced something like that before themselves. You said that international education is 24-7.

Sam Demma
It doesn’t end at three o’clock. I think it takes a pretty special human to dedicate their life to supporting young people From 8 a.m. To 3 p.m. Let alone in a position where it seems like it never stops Did you have any experiences growing up that? Inspired you to want to help kids and work with young people or why did you choose this work? Well, it was the fame and fortune. I was looking for I think it’s a calling. People who want to help and be in a helping field, they find their way there. So for me, I think of a couple of pivotal moments and actually they both happened for me as a student when I moved schools. My family moved schools when I was in grade six. So in Nova Scotia, many of our elementary schools go until grade six. So it was kind of a big deal being the oldest of three boys. We ended up moving to this small rural community and I was like, wow, this is really different. Um, and the teacher there kind of, she saw things in me that I didn’t really see in myself at that time. Right. And then it happened again in grade 10 when I arrived at the high school, first year in a new school and kind of had a similar experience. So I thought, okay, these people, um, are suggesting that I might be a great in school one day. And for me, I found math easier than many of the other subjects.

Sean Kenney
So, between that and enjoying sports, certainly enjoyed sports playing as a child when I realized I was far from a pro ball player, I was never going to be a professional athlete. Later in high school, I can’t remember if it was, must have been the summer of grade 11, a friend, me and one of my friends, we ended up coaching a minor ball team and working with the little league kids at that time would have been five, six, seven. It was fun.

Sean Kenney
And I think that kind of was the hook. It’s one of those things that if you enjoy working with kids, you know, just one of those things. With working with kids, every day there’s something new. So you might get some of those moments, but there’s so many things like, wow, that’s different.

Sean Kenney
So I think always being curious, willing to learn and open to new opportunities, that’s what I love about working with kids. There’s never a dull moment. That’s in transitioning to this role, it’s a little different, right?

Sean Kenney
Having been a principal, I was there every day with 575 students every day. So you get to interact all day long, you know, and this one here, working more regionally based, it’s a little different as far as your impact and influence because you don’t get to see every student every day, which is something I had desperately missed, but I’m adjusting to, right? Finding other ways to kind of get to see them.

Sam Demma
There’s unique opportunities in every field, in every, I believe, in every vocation, every job. I think one of the unique opportunities in the work you’re doing now is you’re creating homes away from a home for lots of kids who these experiences could be life changing and and when you think about the students that you’ve served over the years in international education, is there a story of a student that might come to mind right now who was really nervous and shy and maybe even struggling at the start of their international experience but by the end, we’re emailing you, mister Kenny, you’re not gonna believe this. Yeah. And if there isn’t a specific email, that’s okay too. But if there’s a story, I would love for you to share it because there’s an educator listening to this that’s doubting if they’re making a difference. And I think it’s stories like that that really remind them to keep showing up.

Sean Kenney
Yeah, so having been a principal for a number of years, right? And I’ve had the luxury of working in grade primary to 12 schools. And I always shared with my staff, listen, different grade levels have different levels of gratitude.

Sean Kenney
Some are time delayed. Some are like that email that you’re going to delay send. So in elementary schools, gratitude is daily. You get hugs and kisses and snot on your pants from the hugs, right? So you feel that love every day. In high school, those major milestones, the proms, the graduations, when kids are leaving, you get a lot more gratitude. Middle school, it’s delayed, right? So some, you feel that love, right? And you know that you’re making that difference, but for some, they come back. So from my experiences, I’ve had a number of students that are like, man, I just want to talk to you. I really appreciate that you never gave up on me, even though I didn’t deserve that unconditional positive regard or love that you were given. Because sometimes at that time when I was in grade 7 or 8, I was 13, 14, I wasn’t nice. I wasn’t nice to you. I wasn’t nice to other people around me. I just wasn’t nice to myself. So it’s kind of keeping that in mind. With that said, it’s not lost on me the great responsibility that we have in making sure when our students come as directors, we all serve as the legal custodian. So I take them on as my kids. And one of the great responsibilities that I see is taking care of that homestay part, making sure that we vet the families in an appropriate way so that I’m convinced that if my kids were in another country, my own children, I’ve got two that are 17 and 19, am I comfortable with my kids staying in that home thousands of kilometers away? So we’ve been investing time and energy in making sure that all of our homestay families have a common vision of what it is to take care of our kids while they’re here in Nova Scotia. And unfortunately at times I’ve had to make tough decisions where we’ve had to part ways on that hosting relationship. And that’s really difficult to do because parents are sending their kids to Nova Scotia or Canada hoping for a certain experience and many of them will share. And the great thing is, Sam, I’m Sean now, I’m not Mr. Kenny, which is a great thing.

Sean Kenney
In the international community, I don’t have to be Mr. Kenney. I love it. So they come and they say, Sean, this is just like the Hollywood movies, right? When they think of high school, what’s high school like? Well, North American high school is very different than it is in Turkey or Germany or, you know, pick a country, Japan, South Korea, any of the countries that we host from. So, yeah, it’s that responsibility. And we do a great job making sure we transition the students in. So we have a big team of people, whether it’s our home state coordinators, our program managers, we have school ambassadors, which is a wonderful program. They’re Canadian students in every one of our high schools that are trained to help welcome students as they arrive and help them transition through all of their firsts that happen during their stay.

Sean Kenney
So yeah, there’s a lot of stories where kids come, they’re really scared, sometimes they experience culture shock. I’ve really enjoyed my travels with students when I pick them up from the airport and help kind of relieve their concerns. It’s a three, three and a half hour drive from Halifax Airport down to Yeremeth.

Sean Kenney
So if I’ve got three or four students brand new to Canada, we have nice chats coming back and forth.

Sam Demma
When you think about building relationships and having a positive impact in the life of a young person, have you gotten any advice that you think would be worth sharing with some of the educators that are listening right now that might just be starting to work with youth and wanna make a big difference. Like what advice would you share with them that you’ve received at points in your career that you thought were helpful?

Sean Kenney
There’s a lot of different ones. So one of my mentors as a school-based administrator, he was my principal while I was his vice principal for seven years together. And one of the piece of advice he shared was, no matter what the situation is, when you’re speaking with a child, speak to them as if their parents are sitting in the room with you. Show them the same care and concern you would. You can’t be two different people, and that’s really stuck with me.

Sean Kenney
And some of our CRP work in our region, Shrocky Holly, he talks about VABing, which is the validating, affirming, building, bridging. So, I mean, that’s all, it’s about outrageous love, right? So, that’s kind of the part that keeps us going as educators and relationships are everything.

Sean Kenney
Programs, they come and go. Those are kind of the what’s. The why’s and who’s are kind of that vision of purpose. What is your purpose? And who, who’s it all about? Getting to know those kids, getting to know your staff, getting to know your families and having relationships. Certainly there are some time obstacles and barriers, but that is by far the most important thing. And certainly when I think of some of the work that you share in your presentation, it’s around kind of getting to know those kids so that you can help them raise their ceiling of expectations or goals, dreaming big, think big, and then go for it daily with small, reasonable steps. And that’s certainly what resonated with me in the work that we do. And certainly, Sam, I’m looking forward to bringing you to the East Coast here, hopefully in the next school year, so that we can get you to help bring your message, because certainly I think it would resonate with all of our students.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it, Sean. And I’m so grateful that we were able to share some time on the podcast. I know there’s a lot of educators listening to this who have not even considered or thought about international education as a way they can make a difference and express their own passions for working with young people. I wish you nothing but success in all of your upcoming travels. And if there is someone listening to this that wants to touch base with you, reach out, share some delayed gratitude or ask a question, what would be the best way for them to touch base with you?

Sean Kenney
Yeah, so I’m sure on the bio of this podcast, you’ll share that, but my email is sean.kenney at tcrce.ca. Certainly they can look me up on LinkedIn, Facebook, or even Instagram, certainly, even WhatsApp. So I’m certainly willing and able to help answer any questions or even just chat with anyone who’s kind of curious about this because certainly I didn’t think that my educational journey that started 35 years ago would end up in international education right now. And it’s certainly a very wide field and certainly a niche part of public schools.

Sam Demma
Well, one thing, if you’re listening to this right now and you do want to reach out, just don’t call him Mr. Kenney, refer to him as Sean or else you’ll not get a response.

Sean Kenney
That’s definitely one of the top 20 great things about this new role.

Sam Demma
Sean, thank you so much for taking the time. This is awesome. Keep up the great work.

Sean Kenney
Appreciate it, Sam. Thanks.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sean Kenney

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 27, 2025 by Director of Education Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success 0

Betty Norton, M. Ed. – Chief Academic Officer at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School

Betty Norton, M. Ed. – Chief Academic Officer at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School
About Betty Norton

For almost 30 years, Betty Norton worked for Broward County Public Schools where she taught middle school students and later concentrated on special populations included Gifted and Exceptions Student Education (ESE) classrooms and Title I schools.  

Motivated to bring even more value to the students of Broward County, Ms. Norton pursued and earned a National Board Certification in 2004 and a master’s degree in Curriculum and Instruction in 2007, while concurrently dedicating her time to increase academic achievement in the district’s middle and high schools. She worked at the district level from 2005-2016. She worked for Core Curriculum as a curriculum developer and then in 2009 transferred to the dept of Accountability. In both cases, she was assigned to low-performing schools (D-F schools) and led a team of district support to evaluate, design, and implement school improvement plans and met with great success. Norton also provided training for faculty and administration. 

Keen to learn more about virtual and remote education, Ms. Norton also spent seven-and-a-half years working for both Broward Virtual School and Florida Virtual School before embarking on her career at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School, where she served as Head of Schools for Coral Springs. When Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School opened in 2020, Norton was tapped to lead the global virtual campus and since then, has become a go-to expert in online, remote and virtual education, having been featured in Thrive Global and numerous family and lifestyle blogs.  

Ms. Norton earned a Bachelor of Science in Secondary English Education from the University of Central Florida and a Master of Science from Capella University. 

Connect with Betty Norton: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Broward County Public Schools
Broward Virtual School
Florida Virtual School
Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we have a very special guest on the show. Betty Norton is a veteran in education, almost 30 years. She is currently sitting in her office in beautiful Florida where it is sunny outside and I’m sitting in my office where it is minus five and snowing.

Sam Demma
Betty has an unwavering passion for education, personalizing the experience to individuals to meet their needs and help them excel and exceed. Betty, thank you so much for coming on the show here today. Thank you so much.

Betty Norton
It’s my pleasure.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about the work that you’re doing in education today and what got you into education in the first place.

Betty Norton
Okay, well, those are two very big questions. Do we have time for both? What I do in education these days. So I actually am the chief academic officer for several private schools that we have here in South Florida.

Betty Norton
We have six physical campuses and one virtual school that we use to kind of overlay across all of our campuses. We have students all around the world who attend our virtual school. And we also have students who are visiting the state of Florida for their sports and maybe attending any one of our XSEED Prep campuses.

Betty Norton
So that’s what I do now. I do oversee them. And my focus is doing whatever we can to make those schools better, to be able to provide students with a personalized learning education that really fulfills their needs and helps them achieve their goals. And the biggest reason why I got into education

Betty Norton
is because I have a big passion for it. I know that everyone says that, but I genuinely enjoy working with young people, especially middle schoolers and high schoolers. I graduated college going into business and then very quickly switched gears and went straight into education and I’ve never looked back.

Sam Demma
You mentioned the importance of creating personalized educational experiences and journeys for students. What does that look like for your schools? Great question.

Betty Norton
So at our schools, we have, let’s say for example, our schools open from 8 to 3.30 every day. And we personalize our students’ schedules all the way down to when they will be on campus. So a traditional campus will have students coming in at 8, leaving at 3.30, bells will ring and they will switch from class to class. They only have a certain amount of time with

Betty Norton
each of their teachers and let’s say for example if you’re waiting to get to number 17 because that’s the only question you really had a problem with, it’s really difficult when everyone else kind of gets a turn and perhaps the bell rings before you even get your shot at it. So at XSEED our students have flexible schedules. Some of our students come maybe three or four times a week. They may be on campus for about five to six hours, and they get to work with their teachers individually,

Betty Norton
and they also get to work with their teachers in small group sessions. So one of the ways that we customize our curriculum for them is meeting them where they are and then being able to create a support system for any foundational skills that they may be lacking. We help remediate those throughout the day. And then while they’re working with their teachers and working in small groups,

Betty Norton
they’re accelerating and moving forward. So we have the ability to have some students who may take a little bit longer to earn their high school diploma and say they might go an extra semester. But the opposite is also true.

Betty Norton
We have plenty of students who wish to graduate early because they wanna pursue their careers or the ideas and dreams that they’ve been planning. So sometimes we have students who graduate early.

Sam Demma
And recently you opened a few more schools. Tell me a little bit about it.

Betty Norton
Yes, that was quite the endeavor. We opened three new campuses this August and they are spread out throughout South Florida. We have a new campus in Boca, one in Palm Beach Gardens and one in Fort Lauderdale. All of them were quite exciting and quite challenging

Betty Norton
to open, trying to do three things at once is always a challenge. But we are hoping to tap into those communities and again, allow those students the opportunity to get the education personalized and have those needs met. Our schools tend to be rather small. Our schools are less than 100 students at each campus. And we do that by design so that the teachers can go ahead and personalize things and work students in small groups, if not one-on-one.

Sam Demma
How do people find your schools? Has XSEED been open for a long time? Tell me a little bit more about the process of a family getting their kid involved in one of your campuses.

Betty Norton
Yes, so we opened our doors back in September of 2017. And honestly, the fastest way for them to find us now is typically word of mouth. We have a very strong community build where our families will share with their friends and let them know what the experience has been for their child and so they’ll come out and visit our campuses. But otherwise we do

Betty Norton
what everybody else seems to do. We participate in conversations, we go to conferences, we have our website and Google and so forth. So we do have an active Instagram page and we get a lot of our families through our social and through word of mouth

Sam Demma
When you think of the students you serve at exceed across all campuses How do you measure the success of a student is it? I guess it must be based on their own goals and dreams and if you if you were able to help them move closer to those, but are there any students that stick out in your mind when you think of the impact that XSEED has had on a student’s journey?

Betty Norton
Yes, so you’re right. We do have a different, different ways of measuring, but quite honestly the first and foremost way that I measure student success is based on how happy they are. Many of our students are coming to us because they either feel like they’ve been left behind at a traditional school, whether it be private or public. Larger schools have a difficult time, and no fault to them.

Betty Norton
I used to work public school for about 20 years, so I understand the needs of the classroom teacher. But sometimes you just need to have a little bit of extra time every day to help you do what you need to do. So some of our students really come to us because they want that flexibility in their day,

Betty Norton
they want a little bit of a later start, and they want more of that one-on-one experience so that we can help them with those foundational skills. So honestly, seeing students go from being a little sad or depressed or feeling like they couldn’t achieve things or just even basic things like,

Betty Norton
miss, I’m not good at this math, I’d like to skip it or move on to something else. And then going in, let’s say six to seven weeks after they start with us and see them participating, not only just joining, but participating in a group session and getting up to the board and running through the math and showing you that they know what they’re doing is kind of an amazing task. I think one of the biggest memories that I have with XSEED that really made me proud of what we do and what our team has been successfully doing for the last few years, especially.

Betty Norton
I’ve been to probably 50 or 60 National Honor Society inductions. Between all the schools that I’ve ever worked in and working at the district level, you tend to be invited to things like that. And it’s always a very nice affair and everyone’s quite proud of their child. But at Exceed,

Betty Norton
since so many of those students were already struggling at their previous schools, I’d never seen so many parents just kind of move to tears with sharing so many stories of how their child, if they stayed at their school, they would have never been part of National Honor Society because they just weren’t getting the time and attention that they needed to be successful. So to see something that became so normal for me and then run into so many families that were just crying

Betty Norton
and brought every relative, the biggest event just to celebrate their child’s success really was a huge moment for me. It made me feel like we really were heading in the right direction and providing this level of education for kids.

Sam Demma
It’s so cool to hear about the impact the programs are creating in the lives of families and their children. I know that the reason many educators, heart-centered individuals, get into education is because they want to make a difference. Sometimes you don’t hear about it for a really long time, and more often than not, might not even realize that you are making

Sam Demma
a serious contribution to the life of a young person and their family. To attend an event like that and hear the stories must be such a gift. It sounds like you’ve spent years in public education, you’ve now spent multiple years in private education.

Sam Demma
You’ve also spent years teaching and leading virtual education. Can you talk a little bit about what it means to create a great experience virtually for students because school boards, especially in the pandemic hit, really struggled to maintain engagement and provide a good experience virtually. But I think it’s a beautiful opportunity to connect students from all over the globe with virtual experiences.

Sam Demma
And I know you’ve been doing it very well. No, thank you. And I mean, Sam, I’ll have to say, just this experience that you and I are currently having,

Betty Norton
that you’re in Canada and I’m in Florida, and we’re able to have this conversation, and I feel like we’re in the same room just chatting with each other. So the virtual education, I think, that’s probably the biggest piece right there.

Betty Norton
If you can help the student feel like they are live and in person and they’re engaging, regardless of where they’re sitting, I think you’ve really, you’ve kind of like overcome your first hurdle, if you will, in the virtual world. The other is over communication. I think that when you have a physical environment, people get a lot of their

Betty Norton
physical cues, you know, they look at each other, they can see how someone is feeling and so on, but in the virtual world, it’s kind of radio silent until you tap into them. So it’s really important to have different engagement opportunities for our students. We have social hours for them. We have activities that we sometimes run. We have virtual parties. We have all kinds of things that help them still be a part

Betty Norton
of our virtual community. They can even volunteer online and participate in donations if they wanted to donate for Toys to Tots or what have you through that virtual platform. So I think the key there in order for the students to feel really engaged is to have those connections

Betty Norton
and have those opportunities for the students to be a part of something, whether they can physically be there or not, they feel connected to everyone else in the group.

Sam Demma
Throughout your educational career, which mentors have you had or resources that have been really instrumental in your personal and professional development? And if so, what did you learn from those things or those individuals?

Betty Norton
Yes, that’s a really good question. So I’m gonna have to say my very first resource is the library. Ever since I was in elementary school, any time I wanted to know a little bit more about something rather than, and maybe this is probably because I did go to public and private school when I was younger, but going to your teacher and asking 20 questions wasn’t always ideal.

Betty Norton
So being able to go to the library and check out books and talk to the librarian and learn as much as I could about a particular topic really helped me stay curious and really helped me figure out how to tap into things and be a self-advocate and self-reliant. I think those skills really have transferred into my academic career and my professional career. But if I were to talk about any one mentor that I think really helped change things and

Betty Norton
helped mold me is Dr. Janet Allen. She was my college professor, and I kind of used to call her my college mom. So she’s the person who guided me through the entire process, helped me land my first job in education, and really saw that I had a passion for working with students, especially underprivileged students,

Betty Norton
who may have been attending Title I schools or lived in difficult environments. And me growing up in Newark, New Jersey also kind of gave me that opportunity to feel like, yes, I know what it’s like to be in a tough neighborhood and go to school.

Betty Norton
So she really understood what I wanted and saw that talent in me and made sure that I was in every rough school I could possibly work in so that I can make the greatest impact. And I really appreciate her for that because if it wasn’t for her, I don’t know that I would have taken advantage of those opportunities myself.

Sam Demma
Does she know how much of a difference she’s made in your journey in life?

Betty Norton
I hope so. I ran into her probably about seven years ago. She was presenting at a conference and I just walked up to her and said, hey, do you remember me? And she said, yes.

Betty Norton
And I said, I just wanted to give you a big hug and say, these are all the things I’ve been able to accomplish because you put me, or helped put me on the right path. And we both cried a little bit over that and reminisced about the good old days.

Betty Norton
But so I think to a certain extent she knows. Does she know? The full extent of it I think as teachers we never really know the power that we have over someone or how far our reach is, even when we run into them, really. They share their successes, and we say that’s fascinating. But to have that inside of you and every time you think about that person,

Betty Norton
you can get warm fuzzies and feel like they were your greatest cheerleader and supporter. I don’t know that we ever know how great that impact is.

Sam Demma
I think it’s an important reminder that we don’t know, and it’s equally as important a reminder to reach out to those individuals and tell them. I have a teacher who in grade 12 totally changed my life and trajectory, and fortunately he lives close to home,

Sam Demma
and we’ve stayed in touch over email, and once a year I try to eat a lunch with him and his wife on their porch and their dog. And every time I go, I get emotional. And I tell him and his wife how thankful and grateful I am for their presence in my life growing up.

Sam Demma
And I just think that the world needs more of those moments. And if you still have contact with Dr. Janet, it would be a beautiful reason to reach out and let her know. And if you’re an educator listening to this and you haven’t heard from a student or a colleague about the impact you’ve created on their life, just because you haven’t heard doesn’t mean you weren’t instrumental in that person’s personal and professional development. So please keep showing up and keep going and start the cycle. If there’s someone who had an impact on you

Sam Demma
and you’re listening to this, reach out to them. Use this as a reason to do so. I’m curious, Betty, you seem like someone who is extremely driven and dedicated to supporting young people and their families and advancing them in their education and their personal dreams and goals. How do you fill your own cup when you’re not at work to ensure that when you do show up,

Sam Demma
you’re giving the best of yourself that you possibly can? Well, I think the most important thing is to strike a balance between what you do for

Betty Norton
yourself and what you do for others. And a balance doesn’t necessarily mean 50 50, right? Today, it might be 100% exceed and 0% Betty, but tomorrow, it might be 90% Betty and 10% exceed, right? It’s knowing that balance, knowing what the priority is of the day and where you’re going to make the most impact. When you first start off, especially doing something

Betty Norton
at this scale, you feel like you have to be there for every single person, and you want to be a great leader, you want to be able to talk to them and say, I have an open-door policy, reach out to me, talk to me. But if you allow that, you could easily have 65 to 70 people reaching out to you on a daily basis,

Betty Norton
trying to troubleshoot things. So I think the biggest thing that I try to do, especially with our heads of schools and our leadership team is delegates, right? I want them to be able to provide and support our teachers by becoming experts in different areas. So even though I oversee everything,

Betty Norton
I do have them helping and balancing the load. And I try to take off as much as I can off their plates so that they can spend their time working on the job itself, working with the families and the students. And I take care of the business side of things or managing any issues that we may have, our curriculum, our facilities,

Betty Norton
and so forth. But I think having that downtime at home, spending time with my family, I have a daughter, a son, and a beautiful husband who are incredibly supportive of me, who understand that sometimes I have to work on a Sunday at 6 in the morning, and understand that, you know, I make up for it in other ways. We have family time, we always have dinner together, I do have a few things that are non-negotiables, if

Betty Norton
you will. I think those are important to have that set of standards in your work life, but also have some boundaries in your personal life.

Sam Demma
Saying no is so difficult in my own personal life. I know that as an educator, you’re pulled in hundreds of different directions too. How do you build that muscle to set the boundaries and stick to them when you really want to serve and support all the time

Betty Norton
You make a lot of mistakes. I’m gonna be honest with you. I mean, it’s not it’s most certainly not a perfected craft I think it’s always a work in progress and I think it will be until forever Yeah, it really is, you know, sometimes you sit there and go jeez. I probably shouldn’t have extended myself there I really wanted to be better at this and it really only takes one or two opportunities where you feel like you could have been at 100% to make you feel like, okay, I need to really focus because being here for the students and our families is what’s most important to me. Being here to support the teachers is also incredibly important. So once you have

Betty Norton
that experience, you say, all right, I’m going to wake up every morning and get myself organized. So that’s exactly what I do before I even hop out of bed. I go through my calendar, what’s going on, what do I need to do, what do I need to fire off and delegate or ask someone to assist with so that I can clear the path and be fully present. That’s something that I’ve been focusing on,

Betty Norton
especially over the last two years, with everything that happened with COVID and social media and all the things that are going on, wanting to be present is incredibly important for me. So I do, I sit with people, I like to sit with you face-to-face.

Betty Norton
I ask for people to turn off their cell phones and let’s just have 20 minutes where you and I are engaging, we’re present, we’re here, we’re not worrying about all the things that are happening around us. And let’s focus on the items that we wanna get to, to make a better tomorrow for everybody.

Betty Norton
But it is difficult.

Sam Demma
The presence piece is huge. I think about my personal relationships and when I feel most seen, heard, understood and connected to others. And it’s when we are sitting together face to face or engaging in an activity, our phones are off or not in sight.

Sam Demma
Simon Sinek, there’s a picture or a video of him sitting on stage, and he pulls out his phone and holds it in his hand and waves it around while he’s speaking, and ask the audience, did it change the way you feel about me while I’m holding my phone speaking to you right now versus when it was hidden in my pocket. And as a viewer watching this video online, I answered the question in my head like saying yes,

Sam Demma
because it made me feel like I wasn’t the most important thing, that you’re holding onto something else. Maybe there’s something you’re thinking about related to your phone or a task you have to complete rather than being present with me.

Sam Demma
And it’s something I’ve tried to carry forward in all of our relationships, whether personally or professionally. When you think about XSEED and the new year’s right around the corner, what are some of the objectives the school as a whole,

Sam Demma
across all campuses are focused on, or some of the things you’re very excited about as we move forward?

Betty Norton
Yeah, so I think I have to start that by saying that I’m already in planning mode for fall of 2025, right? So I’m looking at our curriculum, our staffing, our facilities, the resources, what do we need to do? Are we adding more classes? Are we taking away classes?

Betty Norton
What are we gonna do to help provide opportunities for our students, field trips, guest speakers, and so on. So I’m very much ingrained in fall of 2025 right now, to the point where I’ve actually put in my calendar that Christmas is a week away and I need to shop. And every single day I have a notification

Betty Norton
that says go Christmas shopping, because I’m just so living in the future right now. And we have so many great things planned. We have, you know, with all of our campuses kind of ramping up for the fall, we wanna be able to provide

Betty Norton
those unique student experiences. I’m very big on experience versus giving someone an actual gift, I’d rather you have an experience or a moment, so we’re focusing on what do we need to do to take that classroom, that day-to-day and add to it, right? How do we take this opportunity

Betty Norton
and let you have a real life experience through a guest speaker or a field trip or even just a virtual tour? Those are incredibly powerful as well. You can visit anywhere in the world on a virtual tour. And I think it’s quite fascinating

Betty Norton
to be able to do that with students. But of course, continuing our work with the rigorous curriculum, we are a college prep school, so we want to make sure that we have strong relationships with the colleges and universities, especially those that our students wish to attend. And then supporting our community, having more opportunities dedicated to volunteer work and being able to work with everyone in our, you know, surrounding cities and towns by donating our time. So those are our big focuses.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure having you on the podcast to talk about your journey through education, some of your beliefs and philosophies around education and the cool things that are happening at XSEED across all the campuses. If someone is listening to this very inspired,

Sam Demma
wants to share a note of gratitude or appreciation or ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to reach out and get in touch with you?

Betty Norton
Absolutely, I would love it. I like talking shop, so anyone who’s open to chat, I’m always up for it. But I think emailing me at bnorton@xceedprep.org would be fantastic.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Betty, thank you so much for your time and your presence. I appreciate it and I wish you all the best in 2025 and beyond.

Betty Norton
Thank you so much, Sam. It’s been really great speaking with you today. It’s been really great speaking with you today. Thank you for your time.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Betty Norton

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 13, 2025 by Director of Education Education Educator Entrepreneur School Administration Virtual Education 0

Todd Nesloney – Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership for the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association (TEPSA)

Todd Nesloney – Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership for the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association (TEPSA)
About Todd Nesloney

Todd Nesloney is the Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership for the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association (TEPSA). He has also served as an award-winning principal of a PreK-5th Grade campus of over 775 students in a rural town in Texas. He has been recognized by the White House, John C Maxwell, the Center for Digital Education, National School Board Association, the BAMMYS, and more for his work in education and with children. Todd has written six books, including the runaway smash Kids Deserve It and his newest book Building Authenticity: A Blueprint for the Leader Inside You. He is passionate about doing whatever it takes for our students and teachers and helping others tell their story

Connect with Todd Nesloney: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

TEPSA
Kids Deserve It
Building Authenticity: A Blueprint for the Leader Inside You

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Todd Nesloney. Todd is author to six books. He is a culture fanatic. He seems to be a superstar fan with the sweater he’s wearing in this interview. Yeah, all right, Star Wars fan, I should say.

Sam Demma
And although we’ve only known each other for a few minutes, has so much positive energy. Todd, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.

Todd Nesloney
Hey man, I’m super excited to be here and to get to chat today. So thank you for asking me to be here.

Sam Demma
Why teaching? Why education? Tell me more about your passion for creating the next generation of young leaders and principals and teachers.

Todd Nesloney
You know, I love when I get asked this question because I get to kind of reflect on my own path and know that, you know, my experience in school was one where I wasn’t really in trouble because I knew my mama would come up to that school and handle me. So I wasn’t ever going to get in trouble for any kind of reason. I had good grades. I did what I needed to do. And so because of that, I kind of like blended in really easily with the rest of the students.

Todd Nesloney
And so I don’t remember any of my teachers from school, not for good or for bad. I didn’t have any terrible teachers, but I don’t remember any teachers that really ever saw me. And so throughout school, when I was like, what do I want to do with my life?

Todd Nesloney
I was like, I want to work with kids in some capacity. I want to work with kids where when they leave me and working with me, they at least feel seen. And so I thought it was gonna be social work until I learned very quickly, I cannot disconnect myself emotionally

Todd Nesloney
from that kind of work, so it’s not for me. And I was like, teaching, I have several people in my family who are teachers, I can impact kids that way. And so I became a teacher, fell in love with it, never thought I would do anything outside the classroom. And then this opportunity to go and get your masters

Todd Nesloney
while you’re teaching came up and my co-teachers and I were like, let’s all do it together. It’s all virtual, we can work together and we did that. And then from there on, it just led to opportunity, opportunity, opportunity. And I’m the kind of person where if I’m feeling challenged

Todd Nesloney
by something, I wanna pursue it. And so I was like, well, you know what, I’m feeling really good right now in teaching. I feel like I’ve got a really good flow. I’m not really being as challenged as I have been in the past.

Todd Nesloney
Let me jump into this and try this. That looks fun and challenging. And so that led to me being a principal, which led to me speaking and presenting and consulting and also now with my to work at the Texas Elementary Principal Association.

Sam Demma
It sounds like needing to have a challenge is a consistent theme in your life. We just talked about it before we hit the record button regarding some of the books you’ve written and how those were big challenges and you never imagined you’d write the book and maybe that’s the reason why you did the first one and what a gift to the world. Can you tell us a little bit about some of your books that are relevant in education?

Sam Demma
Kids Deserve It, of course, we can start there maybe and then a few of your other projects.

Todd Nesloney
Yeah, you know, Kids Deserve It was crazy. I will never forget sitting around the table with my co-author at the time and hearing him. We were talking about like, let’s write something together. We were writing blog posts, it was really easy. And the phrase, Kids Deserve It,

Todd Nesloney
came up in the conversation. And we were like, hey, that’s a pretty cool phrase. And like, we could really run with that with a lot of these ideas that we have. And so the book was born from that and it took off far more than we were anticipating. Like I

Todd Nesloney
was like 12 copies this next year, that’s my goal. Like if I can sell 12, success! And then it just created this entire community, this movement, and when I wrote it I was like I’m done. Like I put everything into there, I will never write another book, that was so much work, my whole heart is on the page. And then, because I also don’t want to put something out into the world that there are so many versions of already. Like, I like to feel like I’m trailblazing or trying something new or pushing the boundaries, which is part of our tagline in Kids Deserve It.

Todd Nesloney
And so when my publisher kept saying, you’ve got more ideas, you’ve got more ideas, I was like, yeah, but I don’t have like a unique hook right now or anything. And that’s where the next book was born, which out of all my books, it is probably the one I’m proudest of. And that’s just because it’s called Stories from Web,

Todd Nesloney
because I worked at Web Elementary. And when I wrote my second book, it’s written very similarly to Kids Deserve It, except I utilized some advice one of my mentors gave me. His name’s Jimmy Casas, one of the most incredible speakers and authors in the world.

Todd Nesloney
And he said, Todd, I want you to remember that no matter how big of a microphone you are given, I want you to continue to amplify others louder than you amplify yourself. And that has always really stuck with me. And so when I was writing the second book, I was like, I only want to write this because I’m working with the most incredible people on the planet. Like these teachers at the school that I’m at,

Todd Nesloney
they’re doing amazing things and nobody knows because they’re not on social media or they’re not out there speaking. They’re like just nose to the grindstone, getting it done. And so I said, if I’m going to write a book, I want to feature their stories throughout it.

Todd Nesloney
So every chapter features stories from the custodians, to the teachers, to the instructional aides, to the assistant superintendent, just a reminder that everybody’s voice matters and every story matters. And then from there it led to a book about literacy because I started to fall in love with that, then to a book about student leadership, and then during the pandemic I got to write a book

Todd Nesloney
just filled of hope and inspiration. My first book, not for educators, just for anybody, that anybody can pick up and just get a dose of art and words on the page to inspire them. And then my newest book is all about leadership and how every one of us is a leader, whether you are leading at work, at home, or in your friendship circles, just with strategies on how to do that and do it well.

Sam Demma
When do you sleep, Todd?

Todd Nesloney
Great question. Now I don’t sleep at all because we’ve got three-and-a-half-year-old twins. But, you know, it’s funny because I get asked that a lot, like, how do I do all the things that I do? And I am very protective of my personal time as well. So I have really, my wife and I have communicated a lot

Todd Nesloney
about what is non-negotiable family time or any kind of those kind of things. But what I, this is where my ADHD becomes a superpower instead of a detriment, is that when I get super focused on something or attached to something, I can knock it out much quicker than when I’m distracted

Todd Nesloney
by a thousand things. So when I’m writing, it’s like when that inspiration hits me, I gotta shut the world out, give me two and a half hours, and I can get like 30 pages done. And so, and then when the inspiration’s gone, I’m like, well, I’ll be back in a week or two.

Todd Nesloney
Hopefully it’ll hit me again and then I can continue the work. Um, I I’m so jealous of like those authors who like locked themselves in a cabin for a week and come out with a book. I’m like, nah, I could never.

Sam Demma
You mentioned Webb, the school and the amazing staff. It sounds like the culture in that building is phenomenal. You’re someone who talks about culture, consults on culture, lives it, breathes it, and it’s a word that’s used so often in schools. How do you describe culture

Sam Demma
and how do you think you build a meaningful culture in an educational institution? You know, I think this came,

Todd Nesloney
this started with my classroom experience, coming from that idea of, I never want a student to leave my classroom and not have at some point had their core need met, which was, at the core of each of us is we want to feel seen, we want to feel heard, and we want to feel valued. And so my goal always is with interactions that I have with people, especially for an

Todd Nesloney
extended amount of time when I’m working with them or living life with them, I want to make sure that the things that I’m putting in place to connect with them is meeting one of those needs. Am I helping them feel seen? Am I helping them feel heard? Or am I helping them feel valued? Because if not, it’s just like icing on a cupcake. It’s just like it washes away. It’s sweet. It’s gone. Whatever. And so in

Todd Nesloney
the classroom that was so important. So when I became a principal, I was actually hired as part of my job was to fix the culture of the school. Because they had a 50% turnover every year. Scores were in the trash. And it was a lot of it was just the culture. Teachers didn’t believe in themselves, they didn’t believe in each other, and they didn’t believe in the kids because they’d been broken by the system. And so I was like, you know what? This is my new classroom. These are my new students. And so it’s always been

Todd Nesloney
such a passion of mine because I’m such a heart guy. And so when I work with people now, whether it’s in the corporate world, whether it’s in the education world, or even in a classroom experience, it still goes back to those three core needs.

Todd Nesloney
And my thing is, is like, you can do a lot of nice stuff. I’m from Texas, in the South, we have this phrase of you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. And you know, it’s kind of that idea of you can do nice things, but if you are still a jerk, your nice things make no difference. And so when I work with administrators, one of the examples that I use is I saw something go viral a few years ago. Fantastic idea.

Todd Nesloney
I did it. And it was the snack cart where they put all these snacks and drinks on a cart and they roll it down the hall and they’ll knock on a door and say, hey, we got some snacks and drinks for you. And I tell people, we as teachers, we love two things, free stuff and spending somebody else’s money. Like those are our top two things.

Todd Nesloney
And so I’m like, you bringing the snack cart, that’s not a bad thing at all. People will open their door, they’ll be excited about a free chips or a free drink. It’s not gonna change the way they feel about you because if I had a terrible supervisor

Todd Nesloney
and they brought me free chips, I’m still going to take your chips. I’m not going to like you anymore, but I’m still going to take your free stuff. And so I said, you know, that cart in and of itself does not impact culture. It’s not a bad thing. I’m not telling you not to do it. Everybody loves free stuff. But what I’m telling you is a cart full of random snacks and drinks does not make anybody feel seen, does not make anybody feel valued, or does not make anybody feel heard.

Todd Nesloney
The way you level up that idea is, one of the things we did on our campus was at the beginning of every year, I would send out a survey to my staff that said things like, who’s your emergency contact, t-shirt size, all that stuff we collect. But also, what’s your favorite salty snack?

Todd Nesloney
What’s your favorite sweet snack? What’s your favorite, if we had a local coffee shop, coffee from this coffee shop? If you’re gonna get a snack at a fast food restaurant, what restaurant are you gonna go to and what are you gonna get?

Todd Nesloney
And then we have something down here in the South that’s real big with teachers, and that’s called Sonic. That Sonic drink stop, I don’t know what it is about that Root 44 Diet Coke light ice with one squeeze of lime, but it’s like Oprah showed up at their classroom with a free car. Like it made people like break down in tears.

Todd Nesloney
And so we always had asked, what’s your favorite Sonic drink? So what we started doing on our campus was, instead of just bringing a random assortments of snacks and drinks, I would go to Sonic or to the store or whatever and grab that person’s favorite drink. So when I showed up at their door I’m like, hey I know it’s been

Todd Nesloney
rough this week, I can tell, I’ve heard it, I see it, I wanted to go and get you your drink at Sonic today and just tell you I hope your day gets better. And in that moment it has nothing to do with the drink and that’s what I try to help people see. It’s not about giving people free stuff because in that moment for the person that’s receiving their favorite drink, all that’s going through their head is, really, you thought of me uninitiated,

Todd Nesloney
and not only did you think of me, but you remembered something I shared with you about myself and brought something specific for me. That’s where you start to change culture slowly, is when people can see that you are invested in them, not invested in the whole.

Todd Nesloney
Because when you’re invested only in the whole, people go, oh, so if I don’t show up, nothing really changes because nobody even noticed I wasn’t here. And that’s how you get people who start to not work as hard,

Todd Nesloney
who start to take days off for no reason, who start to look for jobs elsewhere. My campus that I worked on, we could not offer the salary that districts 20 miles up the road from us could offer. We could not offer some of the resources.

Todd Nesloney
But when I hired people, I told them, what I can offer you is a place where I will work every day to fulfill all those needs you have as a classroom teacher and celebrate you and build you up and give you the resources. We’re not perfect. Nobody is. But I can promise you that we work hard to invest in our people here.

Todd Nesloney
And that was kind of one of the selling points. And so when I work with people in all kinds of leadership positions, and if you’re a classroom teacher listening, you are in a leadership position. So don’t think you aren’t, just because you don’t get paid, when some of those leaders up top get paid. People are still watching you, ears are still listening to you,

Todd Nesloney
you’re still leading, whether you want to or not. And so it’s all about how are you making others feel seen, valued and heard.

Sam Demma
Can you think of an experience where someone made you feel seen, valued and heard? And maybe you are not expecting it. And the reason I bring it up is because sometimes what seems insignificant to us can mean the absolute world to another human being because we have no idea what someone else is going through. In the context of a school, sometimes we do know if someone’s having a rough week, but sometimes the moments that have the greatest impact is when we have no idea

Sam Demma
that someone else is struggling and we go out of our way to try and make them feel seen and heard. And it could be something they remember for the rest of their lives. And I’m just curious, have you had a moment like that in your life that’s inspired you to do more of this work?

Todd Nesloney
You know, I can think of little things along the way. Something that’s always meant a lot to me is just the acknowledgement of my presence. I think sometimes when you spend a lot of time pouring into others, you also spend a lot of time trying not to be the focus of the moment or the space. And my personality, I’m super, super introverted. And people don’t believe that because they see me present, do all this other stuff, and I’m like,

Todd Nesloney
no, that’s the extrovert time, and then it’s gone. And then I need quiet time in the car or whatever. So when I enter spaces, I often shrink myself because it’s like I’m uncomfortable, I am just trying to pour into others, I’m not focusing on me, and so it’s very easy for me

Todd Nesloney
to leave some of those spaces and not feel like anybody even noticed I was there if I wasn’t trying to be the focus. But at the same time, one of the things I talk about in a lot of my messages is the power of a phone call. And how it’s a completely free resource that you have, but how we were doing it with our students. And then I realized, oh, my gosh, if things weren’t great for students, they will work great for the adults, too.

Todd Nesloney
And so I started this positive phone call thing with the adults on our campus. And my assistant principal was one of my first ones that I did. I called home to his mom with him there on speakerphone, celebrated him in front of his mom. He said it was the coolest experience just to have somebody you that’s in your life celebrate you in front of somebody that you love so much.

Todd Nesloney
And he’s like, as adults, people don’t do that. Like that’s a kid thing. And he said, I’ve never felt that emotion before. And so I talk about that in my messages about how I think all of us anytime we enter a space with more than three or four people we should pull out our phone and be like oh my god Julie you are freaking amazing who can I call right now to celebrate you in front

Todd Nesloney
of and I said people are gonna say oh you don’t have to do that and we trained our staff to be like no that’s what we do here let us love you and it takes a minute to two minutes of the time. So I was sharing about that at a presentation. Afterwards, I finished, everybody went and did their thing. I was talking to some people afterwards, and this gentleman came up and he was like, I really loved what you had to share about that phone call. He said, I want to do that for you now.

Todd Nesloney
Who can I call? And I was like, um, no, no, no, no. Like I talk about this. Like you don’t have to do this for me. Like no. And he was like, no, what do we say Todd?

Todd Nesloney
Let us love you. And I was like, and I got so uncomfortable. I was like, oh my God, like I talk about this, but I didn’t want people to do it to me. Like what, what the heck? This is where my introvertness like takes over. And I like, oh my God.

Todd Nesloney
And so I was like, I don’t know, I guess my wife. And so he was like, okay, call her up, put her on speakerphone. And so in the midst of this foyer, of this space, where all these people are coming and going, I call my wife and she’s like, hello.

Todd Nesloney
And I was like, you are on speakerphone, I am fine. I was like, because she knew I was at work, she’s like, what’s going on? And I was like, hey, somebody wanted to talk to you real quick. She’s like, okay, and he takes the phone and he was like, Hey, I just gotta say your husband just spoke to us. It was

Todd Nesloney
incredible. You are you’re so lucky to get to have him and we’re so thankful that you shared him with like all the stuff that I share, like how we did the phone calls. And I got so emotional in the moment, feeling that reciprocated what I had talked about doing for others and what we had done for years at our school. And as soon as we were done, I was just like, I didn’t know what to say. Like, I was like, thank you, that really meant a lot. And this was like, probably years ago. And I still think about it at least once a week. And anytime I talk about this, I had spent so much time pouring this idea into others and sharing that it not had always been reciprocated for me, which I wasn’t time pouring this idea into others and sharing that it not

Todd Nesloney
had always been reciprocated for me, which I wasn’t asking it to be. And so I don’t want that to be part of the story. But when it had been done, and I experienced it as well, unexpectedly, like not part of a, oh, yeah, this is Tuesday, who are we calling kind of thing. It was, it was game changing for me. And so I think that that was one of those moments that I was like, okay, yep, I got to

Todd Nesloney
experience it from this other side, instead of being the one experiencing it, the excitement from seeing the joy on someone else’s face. I got to feel that deep emotion of being celebrated and then having my wife call me hours later and be like, that was so cool. Like, why did you do that? Like, did you tell him to do that? And I was like, no, I was not going to listen to the president. I did not want that to be done. It was so uncomfortable, but I loved it at the same time.

Todd Nesloney
Like it’s so, and sometimes those really uncomfortable things, we do need to put ourselves through because it leads to so many great things down the road.

Sam Demma
I love the story.

Sam Demma
I hope it’s in one of your books. It sounds like you have so many phenomenal ideas, not only for educators, but this idea of celebrating folks with the people that matter most in their lives over the phone can be done at any point,

Sam Demma
any day with anybody. And I love it. If you could wave a magic wand and change, you know, certain things in education across the globe, are there any things you would start with or things that you think, if these three things shifted

Sam Demma
or these one or two things shifted in schools that would have a massive ripple effect? If so, what would those things be?

Todd Nesloney
Sam, do you have like three more hours? That’s a pretty big question. No, you know, there’s so many different elements and I feel like it’s shifting some of those, some of the things that we are dealing with are shifting continually.

Todd Nesloney
And with my role now in education, especially where I get to work with administrators across the state on a daily basis, in addition to all my speaking and consulting that I do worldwide, I get to hear a lot of different sides of what’s happening.

Todd Nesloney
And so I think the answer to your question is, I think there’s a big change I would make in the administration world, and there’s some big changes I would make in the teaching world. For teachers, specifically,

Todd Nesloney
we have to be trusted to do what we do. And I feel like there are a lot of things we could complain about in education right now, but to me, a lot of it boils down to we aren’t trusted to do our jobs. Whether that is the books we choose to read

Todd Nesloney
in the classroom, the discipline and social emotional things we put into play, the lesson planning, the curriculum, there’s so many elements that it’s like, you aren’t trusted to do this, so we’re gonna have this committee decide it for you, and then we’re gonna need you to write six pages

Todd Nesloney
over how you’re gonna do this, and then we’re gonna need you to grade it all, and then we’re gonna need you to meet for all these meetings, and then we’re gonna need you to have all the data that you’re gonna organize and write a report over as well, and it’s like, okay, when am I supposed to teach?

Todd Nesloney
Because, like, all the things you want from me suck out all the joy of why I got to do this, which was teaching. And so, I mean, we could go into the amount of discipline that we’re dealing with right now. We could go into lack of support from admin sometimes.

Todd Nesloney
There’s a lot of elements and I think everybody experiences the education profession a little bit differently, but I feel like there’s so much more celebration that needs to happen with those humans that are giving their lives up

Todd Nesloney
and often their family relationships, their friendships, to invest so deeply. Because I think that was an unexpected element for me when I became a teacher, was how deeply emotionally invested we get in your children.

Todd Nesloney
And I think that so many parents don’t realize that. And are there bad seed teachers? Yes, but there’s bad seeds in every profession. I mean, go to McDonald’s, there’s somebody there not doing their job. Go to the grocery store,

Todd Nesloney
there’s somebody there not doing their job. Like, that’s not unique to teaching and there’s always gonna be people who make poor decisions and that reflect on all of us. But when I think of administration, what I would say to teachers is, I thought I knew what an administrator did until I became an administrator. And I think administrators often get a bad rap because of decisions that they have to make or split second things or anything like that.

Todd Nesloney
And are there bad administrators? Yes. I mean, we just said there are bad people in every position everywhere. But on the whole, it is so much harder being an administrator than I ever imagined because of the weight that they carry that nobody else can help them carry. As a teacher, I can carry weight and lean on my colleagues, reach out to my supervisor, talk about brainstorm. As an administrator, like I have to deal with it or I have to go in to court and talk about a CPS case. I have to deal with parents berating me or staff upset or community. I mean, it’s a lot. And so for teachers listening, I would say, if you have an administrator that you

Todd Nesloney
respect at all, let them know how much you appreciate them. Because administrators spend at least 75% of their day being told what they’re not doing right or what they’re not good enough at. And that is so emotionally draining that when you have a great administrator, you better build them up and hug them and love them because they are using the 25% they have left to give you all of it. And so I think sometimes we forget about that.

Todd Nesloney
And this is not saying that teachers don’t also give, this is not a us versus them. We have to get out of that mindset. What I’m saying is, as a teacher, I swore I knew what that principal or assistant principal was doing.

Todd Nesloney
I swore I could get in that job and do things differently or better, and until I was actually in that position, I realized I had no idea. And I went to my principal after I was hired and was a principal for a year,

Todd Nesloney
I went to my previous principal and I apologized. And I told her, I said, I did not tell you thank you enough. Like I did not see these little things you were doing that I thought were just naturally happening. And now I realized you were behind them

Todd Nesloney
and you weren’t telling anybody because that’s not what you do. And so if you think, well, yeah, whatever Todd, I do know what my principal does, it’s nothing. Well, I can guarantee they do something, but think about when you were in college.

Todd Nesloney
You swore you knew what a teacher did, that’s why you wanted to become a teacher. And then you got that first teaching job and you realized everybody lied to you. There’s a thousand more things that you have to do as a teacher than anybody ever told you about.

Todd Nesloney
So just the idea, let’s spend more time celebrating. Let’s spend more time giving each other grace, and building those relationships and really connecting with each other. I think that that’s where we can begin to see a change. So to answer your question in a roundabout way,

Todd Nesloney
there’s a lot that we can change about education, and there always will be, because there’s a lot when you get hired by any group that you will wanna change. But I think for me, I wish teachers were more celebrated, I wish they were more respected,

Todd Nesloney
and I wish they were more trusted to do what they need to do. And I think if those things happen, we would see a lot of other things fall more easily into place.

Sam Demma
Trusted, respected, and celebrated. Todd, I appreciate your time on the show. It’s been a pleasure. I look forward to staying connected and hearing about the work you’re doing in your world. Where can educators listening to this find you or reach out and celebrate you

Sam Demma
if they’re inspired by this conversation today?

Todd Nesloney
Well, I think my easiest place is my website, which is just toddnesloney.com. You can just Google Todd Nesloney. If you spell it wrong, it’ll come up. There’s only so many ways you can spell Nesloney. But I am active on every social media platform. Most of them I’m Tech Ninja Todd or Todd Nesloney and I’ve got blogs, videos, books, all that kind of stuff on my site too.

Todd Nesloney
So definitely would love to connect.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Todd, keep up the great work and thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. to come on the show.

Todd Nesloney
Thanks, man.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Todd Nesloney

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 16, 2025 by Author Director of Education Education Student Success 0

Tom Hamer — Deputy Superintendent of Palliser School Division

Tom Hamer — Deputy Superintendent of Palliser School Division

About Tom Hamer

Tom Hamer, Deputy Superintendent of Palliser School Division, has been bringing his unique blend of big ideas, a growth mindset, and joyful warrior leadership to the role since August 2014. He believes in gently guiding his staff by “planting seeds” and fostering a workplace culture that embraces being “perfectly imperfect.”

Tom began his teaching career in Quebec, teaching math and science. Before attending university, he worked a patchwork of jobs and initially planned to study environmental sciences. However, his curiosity and love for learning led him to pursue education instead—a decision that would later shape his teaching approach.

Though he loved being in the classroom and building relationships with students and school communities, Tom’s desire to improve education on a broader scale naturally led him into leadership. His email signature, Semper ad meliore (Latin for “always to the better”), reflects this drive. He progressed from Vice Principal to Principal before joining Palliser as Director of Technology, where he championed educational technology, assessment, and inclusive practices to enhance learning environments for both students and staff. His innovative work earned him the 2015 AAESQ Award of Merit for outstanding local service.

As a passionate advocate for education and a lifelong learner, Tom holds multiple degrees: a Master of Education in Educational Leadership from Bishop’s University, a Bachelor of Science in Biology, a Bachelor of Arts in Geography, and a Diploma in Education.
Now residing in Coaldale, Alberta, Tom continues to inspire positive change in education through consensus building, while focusing much of his time on supporting diverse and effective learning strategies within his community.

Connect with Tom Hamer: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Palliser School Division
Bishop’s University

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam and today we are joined by Tom Hamer. Tom was connected to me through a friend, Marie. Tom, thank you so much for being here. Please just take a moment to introduce yourself.

Tom Hamer
My pleasure Sam. Thanks for having me on your show. I look forward to this. So my name is Tom Hamer. I am the Deputy Superintendent with Pallister School Division right now. Now that sounds like, what does a deputy superintendent do?

Tom Hamer
I guess would be the question most people are asking. And I actually oversee all of learning services for the district. I’ve been doing this role for the last five years. This is finished my sixth year now doing it. And I didn’t start out thinking I would be a deputy superintendent. I can, if you want, I’ll jump into a little bit of the origin story if you’d like.

Sam Demma
I don’t think there’s any person who knows exactly what they’re going to be doing, you know, 10, 15 years in the future. So I would love to know where you started and what brought you to where you are now.

Tom Hamer
Awesome. Yeah, I started, teaching was not actually the path I had thought I would end up on. I started in university in sciences with this dream of being a veterinarian, was volunteering at a vet clinic in the summers doing road trips, that house call type thing in a rural area in southeastern Quebec and did that for a couple of summers and realized, I don’t want to do this and had that, I guess, challenge of what else? So at the time, that was sort of early 90s, environmental sciences was just starting to pick up at universities and transferred to a beautiful little university, Bishops University in Southeastern Quebec. Loved it. Class sizes were great. And along the way there, going through my science degree, I thought I’d be a park ranger, work for Parks Canada.

Sam Demma
Oh, wow.

Tom Hamer
And then thought, you know what? Great way to get into that would be start volunteering with some youth. So I actually volunteered at a local youth center and saw a lot of troubled kids coming in and out. And the kids were troubled not in the sense that they had lives that were, I guess, any more difficult than anyone else. They just didn’t have a significant adult in their life that could help guide them. And that was sort of the common theme I kept hearing. And then the stories they would tell about school weren’t great either. They hadn’t connected with somebody at school. So, lo and behold, I ended up in an education program and started teaching math science in a rural community in English Quebec, English-speaking Quebec. So, we would have kids busing two hours into classes at the extremities each week. And it was sort of that, I guess, one place where kids could feel that they belonged. And that was the way I sort of approached it from teaching. It was, how do you connect with kids first? Because without that connection, there’s not going to be any learning going on. Or at least you’re not going to be able to influence the learning.

Sam Demma
That idea of having a caring adult in your life to guide you is such a powerful idea. I’ve been fortunate to have a really supportive family in my own life and some phenomenal educators. And I think when we take responsibility and ownership for our choices, and you combine that with beautiful support systems, magical things start to happen. How do you make sure you are that caring, guiding adult in a student’s life in your classroom if they don’t have that at home?

Tom Hamer
Well, I think, certainly, I’m a few steps removed from a classroom now. But one of the things that I constantly remind staff is you need to wait in. You need to meet kids where they are. And in fact, our opening address this year for staff may always have props for it. And one year I had a little headlamp because it was why you got to go find kids where they’re at. Some of them are going to be hiding from you. They’re not hiding from you as the teacher. They just don’t know which adults they can trust. So you need to seek them out and you need to help them. So this year’s piece Was hip waders because what I find certainly post pandemic what a lot of people are lacking is that human connection? We’ve we’ve drifted into getting our connection through quick text messages Social media doom scrolling all of that and we’ve lost some of that actual physical connection when we’re standing in each other’s space. And that can get messy, that can get difficult. So the message was, wade into the swamp, and I wore hip waders now. Piece of advice for anybody thinking that that’s a smart thing to do, don’t wear hip waders if you’re not in sort of six or eight degree water because you start to get pretty swampy in the waders.

Sam Demma
I might have to borrow those because my dad and I take out the docks around this time of year. That’s awesome. Yeah. They’re great in the water, not on land. You taught math and science in rural Quebec and then your life took you to Alberta? Like how did this all come about?

Tom Hamer
Yeah, that was sort of one of those odd circumstances that just serendipitously worked out wonderfully. The school I was working at the time, we were the first school district in Canada to go one-to-one MacBooks, one-to-one computers. Back in the early 2000s. So I’d had a lot of experience using like tech integration, getting teachers using technology and we were on the bleeding edge. So I can certainly give lots of advice on what not to do. For anybody wanting to venture down that path, I certainly learned a lot of lessons of what doesn’t work. But then an opportunity came up in Lethbridge, Alberta, where they were looking for a director of technology. And it was sort of, I won’t say a whim, but it wasn’t sort of that plan, because in fact, the recruiting office, when I spoke to them, I said, well, I’d sort of be open to some other opportunities, but definitely not Alberta, definitely not Saskatchewan, definitely not Manitoba. We’re the three provinces, I said, I really, in my own mental understanding of those areas, was not an area I thought I would want to go to. I came out for the interview. The interview went really well, and lo and behold, 30 days later, I was a resident of Alberta, and that was a division office position. So, very different. You’re one step removed from certainly direct contact with students. But one of the things that was very clear, that I made very clear in terms of my vision of technology was that people are most important.

Tom Hamer
When we’re doing education, we can’t lose sight of that nexus between teacher and student. And we have to have as many adults possible working with the students the technology is a tool in the background that helps facilitate some So we we jumped right in with Chromebooks which lower cost but they work Quite well actually and allow us to put more people in front of kids It’s awesome I have a mentor and he always

Sam Demma
says you build the people and the people build the business or the people run the impact. And I think it couldn’t be more true in a position like what you’re doing at the school division. When you think about managing and leading other people effectively, what are some of the things that are typically top of mind for you?

Tom Hamer
Top of mind for me would be identifying what some of the obstacles are. And some of those obstacles might be external to improvement. Like one of the things in my tagline I have in Latin, semper ad milior. Most people don’t read taglines, I always read, I always read to the bottom. So semper ad milior is always towards improvement and that’s something I’ve always lived by. And I always tell people, if I have a day where I didn’t make a mistake, I wasn’t trying hard enough that day, I wasn’t trying to do things differently or improve things. So that’s sort of the mindset I bring to conversations I have with teachers when we’re looking at trying to do something even better. Not to say that what we were doing was bad, but we want to do something even better. And with that, it’s identifying what are the obstacles to people or to systems that prevent us from doing it even better. And that’s the conversation I have, and I’ll have the same conversation with students when I get that opportunity. But the big thing is identifying what those obstacles are, and then, okay, how do we creatively resolve that obstacle or find a way to go around the obstacle?

Sam Demma
Sometimes those conversations can be challenging. I think of mistakes I’ve made in my life, and the conversation I have to have with another human being to fix that mistake is always a little bit uncomfortable, but I know it’s going to be better on the other side of it. How do you navigate those challenging conversations? I think you have to approach them with grace.

Tom Hamer
And I always approach them really with one of the things I always consider when I’m going into a conversation, I think it’s going to be a challenging conversation because we’re or either on different point sides of an issue or from my perception a mistake has been made, I always think, what if I’m the one that’s wrong? And I’m always listening, I always really make an effort to listen to what they’re saying and really stay away from the yeah buts. And listen to what they’re saying, listen to what the challenge is that they’re experiencing, listen to them describe the situation and most of the time, they’ll come up with an area and an area where they see they may do something differently moving forward or come up with an even better if scenario. So it’s really just for give people grace and don’t rub their noses in mistakes after the fact. Like I’ve seen so many leaders that I’ve worked with over the years bring back previous mistakes that were made when you’re having a conversation with someone about a mistake that was just made today that really has no bearing on this current situation, but it’s this, I gotcha moment. And then you introduce shame into the dynamic and now you create a culture where the individual that makes the mistake doesn’t want to feel shame. So you create a culture where people hide their mistakes or don’t talk about their mistakes in an objective, open way.

Sam Demma
Or like you said, stop trying. Like if you’re not making mistakes, you’re not trying hard enough. And I think it’s such a beautiful culture to build, one where people are encouraged to make mistakes and then openly talk about them so they can grow, learn, and evolve from those moments. That’s a beautiful perspective and I appreciate you sharing it. When you think about some of the challenges that exist today in education, what are a few of those challenges and obstacles that you and the team are working to overcome?

Tom Hamer
I think the biggest challenge, I would say, is the speed at which information is transmitted. And the challenge with that is when you think about the way information was transmitted, and it’s also a blessing in the same, it’s a curse and a blessing at the same time. When you think about information and how we would come across information a hundred years ago, that was vetted, that was curated, that was edited by multiple people along the way. Now, that can be great, but it can also be a bit of a curse. So, the biggest challenge is the speed at which information gets out there, because misinformation is now as prevalent as correct information. So, the challenge is having individuals and having groups recognize information that, wait a minute, that doesn’t seem right, and being critical with the information they get versus just blindly consuming it. I would say that is a really big challenge. I think another big challenge is, and this comes right from that public display of how we treat one another. It has become acceptable for the media to show the mistreatment of each other. And that is almost glorified and encouraged. And you see it right with our leaders. When people stand up in our Parliament and say that the government is a fascist government, first of all it makes me feel like our social studies programs aren’t teaching people really well about what fascism is. And it’s also sad to hear people sort of say that when that’s not really accurate.

Sam Demma
Yeah. The idea of misinformation is such a big challenge. Even not only misinformation, but people’s trepidation around if a person is actually speaking to them now. I reached out to someone on LinkedIn recently and they responded back, I’m sorry, is this actually you or am I speaking to an AI robot? And I was like, I had to go film a video for this person to show them like, hey, it’s me, I’m a real human being here talking to you. And I just think the speed at which technology is evolving is so fast that it must be hard to keep up. Is there any other issues among, maybe not the students, but maybe even leadership or the school board that you think is something you’re all working towards?

Tom Hamer
I think a big issue is, again, it comes back to giving ourselves grace. Yeah. For whatever reason, we’ve gotten ourselves into that, onto that conveyor belt of perfection. And if it’s not perfect, we can’t share it. If it’s not perfect, we’re not going to try it. And what that leads to is, I’ll say, the social media pictures of classrooms and these perfect classrooms and the amount of time some people will spend making something perfect. And then seeing the next day that, oh, well, this person did even better and now you get that sort of defeating weight that lands upon you rather than saying, you know what, this is good enough for what it’s for. The main part of this is educating children. So children need to see that sometimes things are perfectly imperfect and you need to start the journey before everything is ready.

Sam Demma
And it’s an analogy for the rest of their lives because that’s going to be a trend as you age and grow up and get into the working world. And so that’s a cool perspective to share. When you think about resources that have been helpful in your own personal development in education or as a leader, is there anything that’s top of mind or maybe you’ve revisited a few times or maybe think about often.

Tom Hamer
Well, do you mean like resources like developed by specific authors, that sort of thing?

Sam Demma
Or… Yeah, any resources.

Tom Hamer
I think I would say nothing replaces the resources of colleagues within your building. Collectively, and that’s what I always found. Now there’s always great source materials out there and the availability of that now is at your fingertips. And I think about any of the resources, there’s companies that have turned it into a business like Solution Tree that have an abundance of resources for teachers. But the most important resource are the colleagues that you have within your building and the collaboration that can occur in a building, not just in terms of what’s cutting edge educational theory, but what is really important around how do we build positive relationships with kids? How do we form positive, lasting attachments with our colleagues and with students? And anything around that attachment theory, I think is really important too.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. I love the idea of people being the best resource. I was talking to an educator earlier today, I was doing another interview, and she was telling me she would have lunch with two of her colleagues every day and it was a stand-up meeting they would

Sam Demma
have and some days people would miss it but more often than not they would sit down and talk about what was going on in their classrooms that day. And I think it applies not only to teachers in classrooms but to any workplace because sometimes the idea is sitting in another and all we have to do is have a conversation. So that’s a great reminder.

Tom Hamer
And then just connecting with someone from that cubicle over the classroom down the hall and sharing stories. And I remember times coming into the staff room when I was a teacher where the lesson flopped and you walk in and you have this complete shoulders are down, you’re just defeated. And you walk in and inevitably a teacher and a staff from where I worked would pick up on that and then ask a couple questions or start sharing some funny story about something. And then you’re laughing and it recharges you and you go back out and try all over again.

Sam Demma
It lifts your spirits, right? Sometimes it’s a laugh. That’s all we need to get back on track for the rest of the day if things have gone sideways. You asked me before we started, why did you start the show? I was thinking about it a little bit while we were chatting just now. I had a teacher who had a tremendous impact on me when I was in grade 12, and he had no idea that he made a big difference in my life. I think a lot of the educators I’ve spoken to during times in their career have felt as if they don’t know if they’re making an impact. And the act of bringing someone on the show to have a conversation gives them the opportunity to reflect and think through those challenging situations and obstacles. And yeah, I think that was really what inspired me to get it started. And for any educator who’s listening to this right now that’s also feeling inspired, hearing a little bit about your journey, and some of the ideas you shared, is there a way they could reach out to you if they’re in a different school board or somewhere else in Alberta in education and they wanna just have a conversation?

Tom Hamer
Absolutely, best way to reach out to me is through email. I have a very limited social media presence because I struggle with some of the content and terrible things that go on in social media. So my email, I shared it, it’s tom.hamer@pallisersd.ab.ca.

Sam Demma
Awesome. Tom, thank you so much.

Tom Hamer
You’re welcome.

Sam Demma
This was a lovely conversation. Keep up the amazing work.

Tom Hamer
Thank you, and all the best to you, Sam, and hopefully we can meet face-to-face again sometime.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tom Hamer.

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

October 22, 2024 by Director of Education Education Educator Superintendent Uncategorized 0

Jason Kupery – Director of Learning for the Palliser School Division

Jason Kupery - Director of Learning for the Palliser School Division
About Jason Kupery

Jason Kupery (@jkupery) is a Director of Learning for the Palliser School Division which serves students and families in both Southern Alberta and the city of Calgary. Jason is in his 23rd year in education and has worked as a teacher, vice principal, principal and director in his years in education. Beyond his teaching role, Jason has been heavily involved in coaching, both in the school and community, as developing and encouraging young athletes is one of his passions.

Jason believes strongly that a strengths based approach is the key to developing young people into their future potential. Students need positive influences in their lives that will not only teach them, but shape them into who they have the potential to be. Jason is dedicated to helping students find where their “deep joy and the world’s deep need meet.”

Connect with Jason: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Palliser School Division (PSD)

University of Victoria – Teacher Education Programs

University of Calgary

Mentorship for New Teachers – PSD

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:03):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Jason Kupery. Jason is the Director of learning for the Palliser School Division, which serves students and families in both southern Alberta and the city of Calgary. Jason is in his 23rd year in education and has worked as a teacher, Vice Principal, Principal and Director in his years in education. Beyond his teaching role, Jason has been heavily involved in coaching; both in the school and community, as developing and encouraging young athletes is one of his passions. Jason believes strongly that a strength based approach is the key to developing young people into their future potential. Students need positive influences in their lives that will not only teach them, but shape them into who they have the potential to be. Jason is dedicated to helping students find where their deep joy and the world’s deep need meet and intersect. I hope you enjoy this insightful conversation with Jason and I will see you on the other side. Today we are joined by a very special guest virtually, who was recommended by another past guest; Joyce Sonata. Today’s special guest is Jason Kupery. Jason, thank you so much for coming on the show. Please start by introducing yourself and telling everyone a little bit about who you are.

Jason Kupery (01:22):

Hey Sam. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Happy to be here. Yeah, so as Sam said, my name is Jason Kupery and I’m a director of learning with the Palliser school division in southern Alberta. We have some schools in Calgary, and we have lots of schools in southern Alberta as well. And yeah, I just, I’ve been an educator for 23 years now. All of my time has been spent in high school. In high schools I was a teacher. I’ve been a Vice Principal, Principal, and now a director. And a large part of my responsibility is looking after high school programming, and another big rock in my portfolio would be health and wellness as well. I shared that responsibility with another colleague in my school division. And so it’s inspiring young people and seeing them grow and seeing them do that in a healthy way is definitely a passion of mine.

Sam Demma (02:20):

What got you interested in education? Did you know when you were a student, when your teachers would ask you, what do you wanna be when you grew up that you wanted to work in education?

Jason Kupery (02:32):

Yeah, that’s a good question. I always knew that I wanted to be I’m one of those weird people that is <laugh>, identifies as introverted. Okay. do like the, do like the idea of being around people and being of influence. And so when I went to school I was big into sports like yourself. and I went to, I, I grew up in Ontario and so I went to university to play football. Nice. and essentially that’s the only reason I went to university. other than, you know, there wasn’t a real academic pursuit at that time in my life. and I heard somebody else the other day say you know, I wasn’t always the greatest student and I did get myself into a bit of trouble. and, you know, those, those skills I honed around that sort of shenanigans in my life certainly made me a better educator cuz, you know, down the line you’d have kids trying to use things on you. I’m like,

Sam Demma (03:23):

I know this <laugh>,

Jason Kupery (03:24):

I don’t think, I’m not sure that’s original. I know you’re, and here’s how I know. Cause I used that once. Yeah. and so, yeah, I think it did prepare me to be a better educator. So I went, played football didn’t get a whole didn’t get a far away with that. cuz I wasn’t going for the right reasons. and so I sort of hunkered down and went to transferred schools. I stopped playing football and I got a little more serious about my my studies. I actually became a financial advisor for a while given an opportunity I had at the time of my life. But again, still knowing that I wanted to do something different. And I eventually moved to Victoria and the University of Victoria had an awesome teaching program, and I knew at that point that I needed to apply, and I was lucky enough to get into the program and had a wonderful experience there. And the rest, as I say, is history the last 23 years, I guess, have been going, going well ups and downs. And but I do love the idea, or sorry. I love being an educator and the idea of speaking to kids lives.

Sam Demma (04:38):

Victoria’s a beautiful place. I, I was there in August and behind one of the residents buildings at Vancouver Island University. There’s a bunch of wild black berries that grow. I don’t know if it was the same at Victoria University, like near or around campus, but I was just losing my mind. You can go to school and then fill a bucket of blackberries for free <laugh>, it’s,

Jason Kupery (05:02):

Yeah. No, they’re everywhere on the island for sure. Yeah. It’s a, it’s a beautiful place. I, I met my wife there and she grew up there her entire life, and she wanted to get off the island. So that was I’m, I’m now in southern Alberta in the beautiful rock. So no complaints.

Sam Demma (05:18):

So from your transition from Victoria to here, tell me about the different roles you’ve worked in education at different stages of your careers.

Jason Kupery (05:28):

Yeah, so I started out as a, as a junior teacher of course. And my first job in teaching, I had you know, you have eight blocks in a four by four traditional schedule. Nice. I had seven different preps, so I taught everything from English 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 to and so it was it was a good year. it was a busy year but it helped refine me because you have to you have to learn how to multitask no question when you’re in the classroom, of course. and it keeps you on your toes when you’re preparing for so many different subjects and things like that. So it was a wonderful time in terms of the education that I received and, and the lifelong learning that it instilled in me. but it was a lot. And of course, I also coached volleyball, basketball they had a, they had a, a floor hockey team I coached there you know, led some trips and, and those kinds of things.

Jason Kupery (06:23):

And it was wonderful because again, it’s one of those things you mentioned earlier about, you know, your vocation and your passion and that coming together. And I, that certainly solidified that. And I know for a lot of teachers it has a high turnover rate in the first few years because again, that’s a lot of work. And if you’re not totally committed it it may knock you right out of the, out of teaching altogether. Right. Mm. and I found, for me, that was refining that for me, that was, yes, this is where I need to be. this is a great deal of fun and it’s amazing interacting with young people who are learning and they’re awkward and they’re silly, and they do some really dumb things, to be honest. And you get to be Yeah, I, I can help you with that because I did those exact same things. So it’s kind a neat thing for sure.

Sam Demma (07:11):

What is, sorry, continue.

Jason Kupery (07:14):

Oh, I was just gonna say, and then after that, I, I, we moved here to I, I’m in Calgary. we moved here and just progressing through the you know, continuing to do that. You, you find a new space, you’ve grown more, you’ve teach different subjects. And I just always had it in my heart that I wanted to lead. Yeah. and I had I, that, those giftings were identified in me. I was very fortunate to have some wonderful mentors and people in my life who identified those gifts and said, Hey, you need to think about this. and so I went into to administration and then eventually to a principal role. I completed my masters at the University of Calgary, I think in 2012. I was finished. and then was, was administrator in high school. And then of course, now I’m director of learning for last seven years. So that is my progression.

Sam Demma (08:03):

When you think about the mentors in your life, I’m sure there’s so many, but are there any that had a really significant impact on you that you still stay in touch with and are in communication with? And if so, what did some of those mentors in your life do for you that had a big difference?

Jason Kupery (08:21):

Yeah. So for me that, that goes quite quite a ways back. And so I was raised in a single parent home with my mother and we didn’t have a whole lot and I didn’t have a lot of positive male influence my life at the time. And so somebody my mother worked with one of her friends at work was, she was just mentioning that to her at work, and she said, oh, my husband can come by and, and take him out and, you know, hang out with him for a bit. That’d be, and, and so that was arranged, and I think that was back in, I’m dating myself here, but that was probably back in 1986, 87, oh, sooner three maybe. anyways. And so he, that mentor is still in my life. He is grandpa to my kids.

Jason Kupery (09:04):

 he helped he helped me along the way. and so that was a very significant obviously mentor in my life and now like a father. so that was the real blessing. And along the way he’s helped me on a number of occasions. so that’s the major one. But in terms of my, my career there have been so many people that have just been, you know, when you, when you see people that have something you don’t whether that be wow. Wisdom when you’re young, right? yeah, yeah. Or just the way of dealing with people or like a, like a sober second thought, like, hang on a second, have you thought about this? Because my personality is one that, hey, we gotta get this done and I’m just gonna, you know, put my head down and charge through the plate glass window kind of deal.

Jason Kupery (09:50):

Right? And we’re gonna get it done. and there’s been so many wise people in my life that have said, hang on a sec, what if, what if we did this way? Or, or, why don’t you try and just slow this thing down a little bit so that you can help other people catch up? Right? Mm. or, you know, you proceeded too quickly and now look at what happened. You created a massive mess, and now we’ve gotta go clean it up. So what did you learn from that? Right. Which is the big thing. And so the most, the most positive people in my life have, have been the ones that, cuz I’ve made plenty of mistakes haven’t, you know, pointed a finger and screamed and, or shouted or abandoned me or whatever. They’ve said, Hey, look, that didn’t go well. So what did you learn from that? And if there’s anything that I can try and help other people with in that regard, it’s that same thing. It’s like let’s get out of the guilt and shame kind of cycles here and say, yeah, everybody screws up and it’s an important lesson for you to learn, whether you’re one of my students or whether you’re a colleague or whether you’re a friend yeah. That, that didn’t go well. So what can we learn from it and how can we how can we move on in a positive way? So,

Sam Demma (10:49):

Hmm. That’s such a good reminder. I feel like sometimes when we make a mistake, we beat ourselves up for it for way too long. I, as you were explaining, that situation reflected back on one of the biggest mistakes I made in my career, speaking <laugh>. And it was when I was just starting, I was 17, and at the time, I wasn’t using a calendar to keep track of what I had committed to. And you might be able to guess her, this is going, but I basically booked a presentation with about 300 people. Some of them were in the school board that I grew up in, and it, it was at a local, a local arena. And they called me the day of the event, Sam, we’re so excited. We know that you’re starting in about 10 minutes. we just wanted to make sure that you’re nearby.

Sam Demma (11:39):

And I had totally forgot six months ago that I had booked this engagement. I didn’t put it on my calendar. And I was like, an hour and a half drive away. I instantly started bawling my eyes out, and for about two months I would walk down from my bedroom in the morning and look at my parents and go, I can’t believe I did that. And it got to the point where my parents were like, Sam, shut up. Like, you know, we’ve heard about this 60 times now, you’re not gonna make the mistake again. And it took me so long to get out of the guilt and shame period, and into the, let me learn from this, reflect on it, and build new systems so it doesn’t happen again. And I don’t think, there was like a defining moment for me where I was like, I’m gonna stop thinking about this. And I’m curious to know, like when you’ve made a mistake or when someone that you know, in the education world’s made a mistake, how do you quickly, or maybe not quickly, but how do you transition from the beating myself up to the, let’s now learn from this and move on?

Jason Kupery (12:39):

Yeah, that’s a good question. And I’ll tell you, I wish I could tell you no, none of the, I, you know, when I make a mistake, I just let it go and I, it’s gone.

Sam Demma (12:46):

Yeah. <laugh>,

Jason Kupery (12:47):

I dwell, I’m a dweller for sure. And and everybody close to me knows that you don’t have to worry about beating up on me because I’m gonna do a better job than anybody else can, right? Yeah. and so what I do, my strategy for it is to talk to people that I trust and love, right? So that’s, that’s the biggest thing. I I, yeah, it, it’s, it’s important to have people in your life that you can, that you can chat with that you can speak openly to and transparently with. and you know, it’s super important because they understand you. And, and, and none of those people say, well, here’s what you need to do, right? Mm. that’s the biggest thing. it’s not about advice. It just, it, it’s that they understand me, they know who I am.

Jason Kupery (13:28):

So, yeah. Oh, yeah, Cooper’s gonna beat himself to death on this one, so we’re just gonna stand, we’re gonna walk beside him, we’re gonna chat with ’em, we’re gonna let ’em talk. Right? And a lot of times that’s cathartic enough to be able to just to talk to somebody, talk it through, and then real, eventually when you talk it through either with the same person or with enough people, you eventually draw your own conclusions, right? Yeah. You know what, I am being kind of silly. This is, this is not as big a deal as I think it’s right. and, you know, even when it’s a big deal, you have people that you know you can love and trust that will stand beside you and, and help you through it and just, and just be there. I mean, you can use the example, your parents. I have an incredibly supportive spouse. I have some awesome kids. I have some really, really, really close friends. and I’m, so, I’m very blessed that I have that network of people in my life that I can you know, talk to when I screw up. So

Sam Demma (14:18):

I love that. And in the school building, I’m assuming that would be other people in the office as well. If you’re a teacher in, in a school, it’d be other teachers kinda leaning on your supports.

Jason Kupery (14:32):

Yeah, a hundred percent. a lot of times that’s what really makes a really tight knit school community. Like I’ve had the privilege of working on some wonderful steps where it’s just people get along they can trust each other, they can, they got each other’s backs. you know, principals got teachers backs, and we’ll help you even when you make mistakes. I’m not gonna totally, you know, I can’t defend some of those things, but I can certainly walk beside you and help you out with those kinds of things, right? you know, and, and for people who, who go into administration, those gaps tend to widen a little bit and it becomes a little bit lonelier. So finding those external sources that you can talk to and you can trust, right, is very important. And yes, of course, in the role I’m in now, you know, you have to have the right colleagues and, and they’re not all in the same school division, right? You have some great colleagues in other school divisions that can relate and empathize with some of the things that happen and, and just great people to be able to share with, and chat with and, and may have advice because they’ve been through it themselves, right? So those are important things

Sam Demma (15:28):

You, you can tell, just listening to you speak and share your ideas that you really care about this and you care about education. what about education makes you excited? Like, what gets you outta bed every single day to show up to work and put your best foot forward and try to do meaningful things?

Jason Kupery (15:47):

Yes, Tim, I’ll tell you, there’s not many careers, and I know there’s, there’s a lot of great careers and there’s a lot of great people doing a lot of wonderful things, but there are not many careers that you can actually speak directly into the lives of a lot of young people, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative> as, as challenging and as tiring as it can be, it can also be super inspiring and super wonderful. And it’s not that you know, the times that I’ve had in my career that I’ve found the most inspiration hasn’t been drummed up by me, by any stretch of the imagination. It’s been drummed up by amazing young people that have incredible ideas and that are thinking about the future as opposed to what was, what’s happened in the past and those types of things, right? and to see people grow and to see people learn is just an incredible gift.

Jason Kupery (16:38):

 and so what excites me now in this current role, because there are some degrees of separation for me is providing the structures for students to succeed, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So my job now is to develop programming and develop programs and systems and things like that, that will either help students find their passion and ignite that spark through different kinds of programs or leadership kinds of opportunities we offer. or it’s ways of finding that sort of self-actualization ways for them to you know find the rhythm be mentally well understand what it is to be healthy. These are difficult times, right? I mean, I know I’m getting old now, so it’s been a long time. But I have had, I do have teenage children, and I do, I can understand and empathize with, with what it means to grow up in those worlds, those, those vicious middle school years and the tough high school years, and you’re trying to figure out your life.

Jason Kupery (17:38):

You’re trying to figure out where you fit, who you fit in with what your future may hold. Those are extremely formative but stressful times for students. And to be able to do everything from helping somebody read and learn how to arithmetic and to make sense of the world at a young age, to guide them all the way up through adolescence and into their, you know, adulthood you know, that transition into post-secondary life. it’s such a massive undertaking and what a privilege to be able to be a part of that. so that’s what gets me up in the morning.

Sam Demma (18:14):

You mention, you mentioned at such a cool perspective. Thanks for sharing. You mentioned that some of the coolest experiences, things that got you the most excited were not drummed up by yourself, but by students. And I’m curious, can you give us some insight into what some of those things might be? On our last call, we talked a little bit about an event that you would host and that was created and co-created with kids, and I would love to hear about that, or any other ideas that come to mind.

Jason Kupery (18:44):

Yeah, there, there’s just so much inspiration out there, but we’ve, we’ve had, you know the one we were speaking about, Sam was we had a young a student in our school community that sadly passed away the year after she graduated this from some complications with the medication. and one of her big things when she was in high school, and one of the things she advocated for was organ donation. and she donated all our organs, which was an incredible gift to a bunch of different families. And, you know, we you know, sat as a staff and as administration afterwards, brokenhearted trying to figure out how to make sense of this. and you know, the one thing that I, I mentioned my affinity for sports, and some other people had some affinity for sports too. So we decided let’s do a, like a charity hockey game, and we’re gonna raise some money and give it away to the to the organ foundation around here.

Jason Kupery (19:39):

 and also raise awareness. I mean, I think that’s a big deal. And we mobilized the troops. We were really inspired by this young lady and by honoring her. and so, you know, we had some professional landing McDonald came out and played with us, and, and, you know, it was just great. We had the whole school come. We had, we raised all kinds of money. It was a wonderful event. and over the years and, and we raised a lot of awareness around organ donation and those kinds of things. And over the years we started getting letters from people. And one we had I think the next year we had somebody that had this young lady’s kidneys. Oh. And he was alive and he was thriving because he had her kidneys. So he played with us in the hockey game, which was

Sam Demma (20:23):

Super cool, crazy.

Jason Kupery (20:24):

And then the year after that, a young man from Newfoundland received her heart. Wow. And he, he reached out to us. He reached out through through the David Foster Foundation and he reached out to us and said, Hey, I’d like to come. I’m a golia. I’d like to come play. and in the mean, in, in the meanwhile, he also got to meet this young lady’s family. And I mean, it was a very emotional, you can imagine what a gift. And, and so what a gift both ways. Obviously this young lady’s heart is literally in somebody else. And is, is helping somebody live to a point where he can come out and play a game of hockey with us. and of course, the gift that he brought to the family by saying, I’m alive and well because of your daughter’s sacrifice.

Jason Kupery (21:10):

What, like, incredible. So that was, you know, those moments are are something that helped you as an adult. It puts you in awe of what young people are capable of. and again, as a teacher and as an administrator, and as a director, my, my modus operandi was always put kids in those positions to succeed. They’re not always gonna do it. They’re not always gonna take it up. Some are just gonna go through and that’s fine, and they’ll live their lives. But some really just need that extra little push or that extra little program or that extra little spark to ignite something in a passion in them. And when those types of things happen it’s just incredible what students are capable of.

Sam Demma (21:54):

You told me the same story last time, which is why I was teasing it out of you. It gave me goosebumps, and it’s given me goosebumps again. What a remarkable story of impact and what a great reminder to check the box on the paper we get in the mail when we pass away, if that’s a decision we wanna make, knowing that it could save so many people’s lives.

Jason Kupery (22:14):

And I’m sure that decision she made has. and I just wanna, I, I just wanna share one more with you. yeah, please. We can talk about for sure. But we had a young man whose whose father passed away from cancer. unfortunately, and these guys for some reason were super into unicycles, right? Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, like, who, like how many people are <laugh>? There was like four of them. And they all just, they rode around, they ate their sandwiches at lunch in the parking lot, and they would try little jumps and things like that. and so this young man was, was sharing a story about his father passed away from cancer, and these guys come up with this brilliant idea, and I say brilliant sort of sarcastically, but it was brilliant to unicycle from B to Calgary, which is about 130, maybe 125 on a unicycle, <laugh> and to raise money.

Jason Kupery (23:01):

So they raised money for cancer research and those kinds of things. I think they raised something like 15 or $18,000. Like it was a lot. But these poor guy, they did it two days cuz it was way too much during a day. But these poor guys, and I, I drove the van behind them with the blinkers on <laugh> Road, and they rode their unicycles from BMP all the way to Calgary. and it was kind of cool in Calgary for anybody’s around here. Edward Worthy Park is just down the road. so they rode in Deady Park and their parents and their families that all had this huge celebration in the park, and they had a check presentation. you know, stuff like that. It just, like, that stuff happens more routinely than you think because young people have such inspiration and such drive, and they don’t understand quite yet what no means.

Jason Kupery (23:44):

You know what I mean? Because we, we, we get a little beaten down over the years about, oh, that can’t happen and that can’t happen. And young people just, they have great ideas. And so again, I’ve tried to be very cognizant of the fact that it’s not about saying, well, here’s what’s gonna go wrong, or here’s what could happen, or here’s this or that, or it’s, Hey, there might be some barriers. How can I help you remove those? and how can we help them? It might, it might happen differently because of certain things that we can’t do, but I’m sure we can, if we just think creatively and, and my job as a, as an trusted adult in their life would be, okay, let’s get rid of those things so you can succeed.

Sam Demma (24:16):

That’s awesome. I’m sure when you were in the schools, you dealt with a lot of those on a face to face basis because they would walk up to you and say, Hey, hey sir, I have an idea. Can I tell you about it? and now from a systems perspective, you probably hear about a lot of those things. One of the things that I think is really special about education, and you alluded to it earlier, you said, there are so many careers, but there aren’t many where you can speak directly into the lives of young people. I think one of the coolest things about education that lures most educators is the idea that they can make a positive difference in the life of a young person. What’s funny is that everything you’ve shared with me makes me believe that the young people have all made a massive difference in your life.

Sam Demma (25:03):

And I don’t think that aspect of it is, is talked about enough. and, and you just shared two inspiring stories and how it had a big impact on you. But I am curious to know in all your years working in a school, working in a classroom, has there been students who, when they first walked through your door or into the school, were really struggling and by the end of the couple years, or by the end of this semester had a real big breakthrough or transformation and yeah. Are there any stories like that that come to mind?

Jason Kupery (25:39):

Yeah, well, there’s, there, there’s plenty for sure. I think that helping students <affirmative> you know, I’m not a big fan of the idea of streaming, like saying, you know, you’re not, you’re not smart enough to do this, so don’t, don’t try. Yeah. and I’ve seen a, I’ve seen a lot and, and sometimes, you know, it is, some things are, are a deep enough level. You don’t wanna set kids up for failure, but you certainly don’t wanna say, well, don’t bother trying, because then, you know, you’re just gonna, you’re gonna end up failing, right? Yeah. So it’s a, it’s a distinction, if you will. and I’ve seen so many kids over the years flourish because you know, well, I can’t do that. I’m no good at math. That’s, that’s the easiest thing to say in, in education is I suck at math, right?

Jason Kupery (26:21):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And then, okay, well, okay, I guess that’s it for you then, then we’ll, we’ll put you into something else. and I’ve always tried, I’ve used this match with my own kids too, but it’s just, no, you don’t suck at it. You just haven’t done it enough. You just have to, you need more practice, right? and, you know, trying to sort of present that mindset to students to say, try it. If it doesn’t work out, what’s the biggest, you know, fail forward, what’s the biggest thing that can happen? Right? and, you know, you gotta convince students of that, but you also have to convince their parents of course, too, right? Like, we’re gonna do this. It may not go super well, but that’s okay, right? We’ve got other room, we’ve got other spaces, we can, we, there’s other pathways. and so I’ve seen a lot of students succeed because they under, either they’ve, they’ve gone way beyond what they thought they could which is a wonderful thing.

Jason Kupery (27:08):

And we’ve also seen kids succeed because they’ve made a wise choice, I need to go on a different direction. And there’s another path, right? And one of the things I’ve seen you know, that even, even the most driven of students and the straight A students don’t realize is there are so many different paths in life, and there are so many different ways you can take. but I think that young people and families and, you know, people in general just think that there’s a linear straight, like, I have to get here, I have to get that 95, or I’m not getting into this program. And so part of, part of what I’ve tried to do is in helping people through that journey is to say, look, there’s, there’s a ton of paths, and just because you can’t take this math or take this biology or take this whatever there are other ways to do it, and we can get you there.

Jason Kupery (27:51):

And, you know, in, in a, in a world of instant gratification, it’s hard to understand, Hey, maybe you should take another year of high school, or maybe you need to take another course. Well, and I need this to happen now. It, it doesn’t need to happen now. But I know that’s a hard message for some people to hear. But in order to succeed, you may need to try a little bit, you know, a different way or, or it may take a little bit longer, but that there’s nothing wrong with that. There’s no shame in that, right? to be able to take a different path in life to succeed. and the other piece is helping students identify you know, the traditional classroom or the book learning or the, those kinds of things aren’t what I love to do. That doesn’t mean you’re not smart, it means you’re brilliant in other ways.

Jason Kupery (28:30):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And so trying to provide students an opportunity to, whether it’s work with their hands or build something or problem solve in a different way you know, helping students understand their own aptitudes and their own, you know, brilliance is, it’s one thing to tell them, it’s another for them to discover for themselves, right? And so, again, as educators we try to create the conditions for students to do that. You know, if you, if you allow for different modalities of teaching in your classroom, and the student says, ah, I, now I can see because I, because I made it up with my hands, now I can see why it’s important, or now I can make the connection with the learning. quite often education is learn this regurgitate it, and now you know it without that real life connection and without that, without that sort of cementing or anchoring the learning it’s very difficult.

Jason Kupery (29:21):

It’s why most times when you, I mean, you’ve done it, I’ve done it a thousand times, where you, you, you study you and then you, you drill everything into your head for eight hours before the test or whatever, and then you forget 60% of it by the time you walk out the door, right? Because it’s like, I got what I needed to do, I accomplished, I got the mark. and so I’ve accomplished that. but have I really learned, so anyways, sorry, I’m rambling. I’m just saying that allowing students different ways to learn helps ’em flourish. And I’ve seen that so many times where students have had that aha moment, like, ah, now I know this is what I’m good at. and I mentioned to you earlier as well, the idea of post-secondary is frightening to a lot of people. It was frightening for you.

Jason Kupery (29:58):

It was frightening for me. Yeah. it’s a huge transition. And so I just had this conversation earlier today with some, some educators around students feel too much pressure. We have to stop asking them what they’re going to do. And I a hundred percent agree what I, what we need to ask. And the question I’m trying to change within our school division here is what do you love to do? Yeah. Because if we, if you can tell me what you love to do or what really gets what gets you up in the morning, you asked me that question earlier, what gets you up in the morning? And then we could connect it to a different career. but if you think that you can only be a teacher, a doctor, a lawyer, an engineer, or whatever, then those opportunities don’t blossom for you because, oh, I’m not good at that, so I’m never gonna be an engineer, and I just, I can’t do this kind of math, so I won’t go on to do sciences. Well, there’s a thousand other things you could do out there that would bring you joy and would meet the world’s needs. So we just have to figure out what that is for you.

Sam Demma (30:47):

I got goosebumps like five times while you were just, just sharing those ideas because one, I was the student who took the fifth year and the gap year and thought I was falling behind. And I was, I was interviewing another educator Sarah daddario from a school in California, and I try and talk to diverse, you know, amount of educators, and she was sharing something similar that her students were going through, putting so much expectations on pressure on themselves to start the next step right when they finished high school, even though they weren’t sure what they were doing. And she shared this beautiful analogy about going to parties, and she said, this is the analogy that I give my students. She and she, she asked me a question, if you were going to one of your friend’s parties, what are all the different ways you could get there?

Sam Demma (31:36):

And I started listing off all these random ideas, ride my bike, ask my mom for a drive, hit your ride with the, with the taxi guy, called a pizza delivery person and ask him to pick me up. I could walk there, I could roller blade, I could scooter, I could get a helicopter and fly. Like I started giving some funny answers. And she’s like, well, all of those are valid options and they’ll all get you to the final destination, but every single one of them takes a different amount of time and a different set of steps. And that’s how I try and encourage, she, she was explaining that’s how she encourages their students to think about their pathways. That you will all end up at a party. It might not be the same party based on your different interests, but you’ll all end up somewhere.

Sam Demma (32:16):

Your choice of transportation is what will make your life unique and interesting. And I just keep thinking about that whenever I think about pathways and adding so much pressure on ourselves. and then the other thing you mentioned in your second point was this idea that students have five options, an engineer, doctor, lawyer, you know, what we think we, we wanna do. and what we really should try and do is figure out what they love. And I, I thought about an artist who I really look up to, his name’s Russ, and he makes music, and he grew up thinking that he lacked discipline and wasn’t a hard worker, but later in life realized that it was actually the work that made him not very disciplined and not work hard because he just didn’t enjoy it. But when he found the thing that he loved, he was in the studio every day making music, and now he’s one of the largest independent artists on, on the planet.

Sam Demma (33:12):

And I think it’s really important that we don’t judge students based off of the things they don’t like doing. And I’m sure there’s a lot of things that we have to do, even if we don’t like it, and that’s a part of the journey as well. But I really like that you’re trying to help students figure out what they love and then craft the pathway from there. do you have any examples of and I’m putting it on the spot here, but of like a student who came to you and said this is what we’re, we’re, we’re passionate about and you helped kind of create a different pathway or brainstormed ideas around it?

Jason Kupery (33:49):

Yeah. well, I think that the most, when I, when I, I don’t about a specific example per se of one that’s jumping in my head and right at this moment, I’m, I’m, I’m sure I’ll think about 20 when I get, when I, that’s

Sam Demma (34:01):

OK <laugh>.

Jason Kupery (34:05):

 but I think that it’s, it’s more around helping students understand there’s a stigma that exists with certain careers, right? Mm-hmm. and, and so, you know, the trades are things that people that, that aren’t good at school do, which is ah which is seriously flawed. Obviously. I don’t want somebody who doesn’t know what they’re doing, building my house or <laugh>

Sam Demma (34:28):

Putting,

Jason Kupery (34:29):

Renovating my kitchen or whatever, right? and you know, there’s that, that sort of, these are lesser than skills, which is so not true. you know you know, the saying is, I’m educated, but I’m all that smart. And and that’s the same, goes like, I have a master’s degree, but you put a hammer in my hand, I’m gonna end up hurting somebody, right? <laugh>, most <inaudible>, I’m sure before anybody else <laugh>. and, and so I really wish, that was one thing that I developed more as a skill, right? Yeah. so just, just helping students understand that, that their gifts are extremely valuable no matter what they are, and they can be used for something. Again, it’s that the biggest thing was is that, that the world’s deep need and, and your deep joy intersecting, right? That’s where it’s at. Like Russ, you know, Hey, I found a medium that I am passionate about and that I want to pursue.

Jason Kupery (35:24):

So I’ve seen more of, of that I should say, in in, you know, where kids are so driven to, to get onto this, and they’ve fallen out of that, and really, and then they’ve come to me later and said, Hey, I’m doing this now I’m, I’m working my hands, or I’m, you know, a paramedic or I’m this or that. And, you know, it changed my life just thinking about, you know, how to you know, striving so much for something that was almost unattainable and, and, you know, at the expense of my mental health and other things in my life. and then when I realized that this was actually my gifting I was able to succeed. So

Sam Demma (36:00):

I love it.

Jason Kupery (36:01):

As we talk, I’ll think of a, of an example. I just didn’t expect to come up with that, but I should have that off the top of my head for

Sam Demma (36:08):

Sure. No, I’m putting you on the spot here. And it’s funny, it makes me think about situations where I have a conversation with someone and then five minutes after the conversation ends, I’m like, God damn, that’s, that’s what I wanted to say. You know? But you, you did a perfect job answering that, and I appreciate it. It’s really apparent that at the core of a lot of your thinking and decisions is the end user, which is the student. and I’m sure there’s ways that the the staff are a part of your, your planning as well because you’re at the, I guess, overarching level now. I’m curious, like for all the educators that are listening to this who are starting their first year of teaching, if you could bundle up your wisdom and experiences and go back in time and tap Jason on the shoulder when he was just starting and say, Jason, this is what you need to hear. What would you have told your younger self? Not because you would’ve changed your path, but because you thought it’s helpful advice to hear at the start of a career in education?

Jason Kupery (37:09):

Yeah, great question. I would say, you know, first and foremost and, and to, to, to sort of connect it to the last question you know, when it’s not so much that people have re retooled and done something and now ta-da, I’m happy. Yeah. it’s more about the kids that had a really, really, really hard time with a, because of circumstances in their life growing up unstable families drugs, alcohol, poor decisions and those are the ones that are, that are throwing things at you or telling F off or, and I just, young teachers and, and people in education, I mean, the one thing I would say is, please look past that. I mean, there is trauma in those kids’ lives, and that trauma-informed practice is really, really important because while it is that person standing in front of you, that young person standing in front of you screaming or throwing a fit or punching a snot at somebody else or whatever it’s not to see that that student or I is a terrible person or deserves some kind of punitive justice or those types of things that, that that young person needs some love in their life and needs somebody to look past that.

Jason Kupery (38:23):

And so when I’ve had people come back to me and say, Hey, thanks for, you know, because you, you because you intervened and because you had enough patience and because you didn’t kick me out and because you didn’t make my life harder, I look at I’m now a success and I wanna come back and say thank you. Those things mean a lot to me, obviously. I mean, they mean a lot to a lot of educators, right? But we tend to, and I’m no different, we tend to look at that and say, oh, that kid’s driving me crazy. I just want ’em outta here. Right? Just get out. and it takes far more patience and understanding to sort of try and look through that and try to reason and try to understand where that young person’s coming from to be able to speak into their lives.

Jason Kupery (39:08):

And it’s not like you have to, okay, now I’m gonna tell you everything you need to know, and I’m the best just, Hey, I’m here to listen and I’m, I’m going to be a safe place for you to come and, and be yourself. that changes lives. There’s no question. and so my encouragement would be, a lot of these people have a lot of people that, that give you a hard time or will give you a hard time in your career, are carrying a lot of, they’re carrying a pretty heavy backpack, if I can use your

Sam Demma (39:34):

Analogy. <laugh>

Jason Kupery (39:35):

<laugh>. and, and that’s, and that’s something that’s so extremely important to understand and to try to speak to them in a way that they can hear and know that they’re safe and cared for, because they’ll still make dumb decisions, but they’ll, they’ll always thank you because you stay, you stay beside steadfast. so I guess please don’t give up too easily on, on people that give you a hard time because they got a lot going on. The other thing I would say to young educators, and I do, and I do say that now because we do have what’s called the teacher induction program here. So it’s called Tip for

Sam Demma (40:11):

Sure. Yeah.

Jason Kupery (40:12):

 is don’t let the, the jaded, angry nature of the profession seep into your brain. And I’m not suggesting that’s pervasive, but it, it can happen. All you need is one teacher that, you know, is jaded or disaffected or, you know, kids are lazy or yeah. Whatever. And that sort of can flavor the water and it can get inside your head because that was my experience, right? You know, I had some, some teacher sponsors or whatever that the people that helped evaluate me and helped me through in my early years you know, weren’t always the most possible profession, <laugh> and, you know the, the 40 kids or the 35 kids and, you know, the half of them are criminals and those kinds of things. Right? those are the kinds of things you’re here as a young teacher and you just don’t start believing that.

Sam Demma (40:57):

Yeah.

Jason Kupery (40:58):

Cause it really does impact your ability to speak into people’s lives when you start to see them differently as opposed to who they really are beneath that tough exterior.

Sam Demma (41:07):

Mm. I love it. It’s like the advice don’t judge a book by its cover. And I think it applies so deeply in education, especially with young people, and you’re speaking from experience because you started it at the beginning of this podcast saying that you did some silly stuff as a student <laugh>. So I and we all did, you know, I think back to when I was grade seven and got suspended and we don’t have to get into the details of the silly incident, but I remember coming home and uncontrolled be crying and my dad not, you know, scolding me, but saying, let’s go talk to your principal. And bringing me back to school and sitting in the office and my principal at the time instead of seriously punishing me, he asked me a lot of questions and kind of forced me to reflect on the choice I made and why maybe it wasn’t a good choice and what I learned from the experience.

Sam Demma (42:02):

And I ended up having a two day suspension but it was a it was a very kind gesture, and I learned so much from it. So I’ve had personal experiences and I think a lot of students do. So I appreciate you sharing that, and I appreciate you coming on the podcast and talking about your experiences and beliefs around education. And if there’s an educator who listens to this and wants to ask you a question or send you a message, what would be the most effective way for them to reach out and get in touch? Not that we’re gonna fill your inbox, <laugh>.

Jason Kupery (42:33):

Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, I’m, I’m always willing to, to share and collaborate with others. I think it’s awesome. Yeah, email’s the best way and I can certainly share that with you if you wanna attach it somehow or whatever.

Sam Demma (42:43):

Sure. Awesome. Sounds good. Jason, thanks again for, for coming on the podcast. Really appreciate your time and energy. Keep up the great work, and I’ll see you soon.

Jason Kupery (42:52):

Okay. Thanks, Sam. Appreciate it.

Sam Demma (42:55):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jason Kupery

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 7, 2022 by Director of Education Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Peter Sovran – Director of Education at the Upper Grand District School Board

Peter Sovran – Director of Education at the Upper Grand District School Board
About Peter Sovran

Peter Sovran’s career portfolio over the past twenty-seven years has included a variety of high profile, extensive and demanding senior leadership positions with the Hamilton-Wentworth, York Region and Toronto District School Boards and the Ontario Ministry of Education.

He has a proven track record of strategic, transformative leadership that has resulted in impactful changes to public education in Ontario, with a particular focus on improving
student achievement, well-being and equity of outcomes. His commitment to addressing the gaps in student learning that exist due to systemic and historic barriers was further cemented during his two years working with the Anishinaabeg of Kabapikotawangag Resource Council First Nations School in north-western Ontario.

Peter is currently one of the longest serving Associate Directors of Education in the province. Prior to this role Peter was an Executive Superintendent and a Superintendent of Student Achievement. He has served as a Senior Manager and Senior Policy Advisor with the Ministry of Education, leading the provincial eLearning program and Early Reading/Early Math initiatives.

Peter has been an elementary school principal and vice-principal and has taught in all grade divisions, elementary and secondary, including adult education. A lifelong learner, Peter is pursuing his doctorate in educational leadership and policy at OISE/UofT. He holds a Master of Science in Behavioural Neuroscience from McGill University, a Bachelor of Education (Science and Math) and Bachelor of Science in Psychology and Biomedical Ethics from the University of Toronto.

An avid runner and cyclist, Peter has completed several races including seven marathons. He and his wife carve out time from their busy schedules to enjoy tennis, hikes and finding new local artisan shops. They have two adult children.

“I am very humbled and excited about the opportunity to work with the dedicated trustees, staff, and community partners that serve the students of the Upper Grand District School Board. Together, we will ensure that UGDSB continues its well-established position as a leader in learning, service excellence, and environmental literacy and is proudly reflective of the distinct communities within its boundaries.”

Peter officially commences in the role of Director of Education and Secretary-Treasurer on September 1, 2021. He will begin his transition process over the coming months.

Connect with Peter: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Upper Grand District School Board (UGDSB)

Hamilton-Wentworth District School Board (HWDSB)

York Region District School Board (YRDSB)

Toronto District School Board (TDSB)

Ontario Ministry of Education

Anishinaabeg of Kabapikotawangag Resource Council First Nations School (AKRC)

Ontario Provincial eLearning program

Doctorate in educational leadership and policy at OISE/UofT

Behavioural Neuroscience at McGill University

Bachelor of Education at University of Toronto

Bachelor of Science in Psychology at University of Toronto

Biomedical Ethics at the University of Toronto

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast.

Sam Demma (00:59):

This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Peter Sovran. Peter Sovran’s career portfolio over the past 27 years has included a variety of high profile, extensive, and demanding senior leadership positions with the Hamilton Wentworth York region and Toronto district school boards, and the Ontario ministry of education. He has a proven track record of strategic transformative leadership that has resulted in impactful changes to public education in Ontario, with a particular focus on improving student achievement, wellbeing and equity of outcomes. His commitment to addressing the gaps in student learning that exist due to systemic and historic barriers was further cemented during his two years, working with the Anishinaabeg of Kabapikotawangag Resource Council First Nations School in north-western Ontario. Peter is currently one of the longest serving associate directors of education in the province. Prior to his role, Peter was an executive superintendent and a superintendent of student achievement.

Sam Demma (01:58):

He has served as a senior manager and senior policy advisor with the ministry of education, leading the provincial eLearning program in early reading, early math initiatives. Peter has been an elementary school principal and vice principal, and is taught in all grade divisions,; elementary and secondary, including adult education. A lifelong learner. Peter is pursuing his doctorate in educational leadership and policy at OISE, University of Toronto. He holds a master of science and behavioral neuroscience from McGill University, a bachelor of education, science and math, and a bachelor of science in psychology and biomedical ethics from the University of Toronto. An avid runner and cyclist, Peter has completed several races, including seven marathons. He and his wife carve out time for their busy schedule to enjoy tennis, hikes, and finding new local artesian shops. They also have two adult children. I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Peter. It was a pleasure to speak with him and I will see you on the other side. Peter, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Please start by introducing yourself.

Peter Sovran (03:01):

Well, hi Sam. So pleased to be here. So I’m Peter Sovran. I’m the director of education for the Upper Grand District School Board.

Sam Demma (03:10):

When did you realize as a young professional, or even as a student that you wanted to work in education when you grew up?

Peter Sovran (03:19):

Huh? That’s right. That is a great question. My my career and and career aspirations have taken many, many turns. I think I started off wanted to be a professional baseball player. So that was that didn’t happen. And so then I then I pursued you know my postsecondary education and thought I’d be a, a neuroscientist. Wow. Went, went off to to do my graduate work. And and then I, I realized a couple of things. One was sort of a force of nature and that is that I’m severely, severely allergic to the particular animals that I was working with when I was doing experiments. Wow. <laugh> and so I got to thinking, do I wanna do this for the rest of my life? And while I was in graduate school, I really enjoyed you know, the teaching side of things. And so I started looking into that and talked to a bunch of people and started doing some some volunteering in schools. And, you know, as they say, kind of the rest is history,

Sam Demma (04:39):

Take me back for a moment to the baseball days. When did that dream become something you chased and at what time in your life did you put it on the shelf in terms of the aspiration to one day play professionally?

Peter Sovran (04:55):

Oh, I think pretty quickly. I think I was you know, sort of a young teenager and realized that while I was a pretty good pitcher I was a pretty good pitcher for, you know, my local league had a tryout with the under 18 team Canada. Didn’t make it. And I thought, well, if I didn’t make it past the preliminary stages of that triad camp, then I’m not sure I wanted to spend my entire early twenties traveling in minor league ballparks.

Sam Demma (05:32):

Nice. I love it. You mentioned severe allergies as well to the animals. Was this a physical response that you would experience or what was the paint, the picture? What did it look like?

Peter Sovran (05:43):

<Laugh> it, it was, yeah, I I had packed my bags. I had moved to, to Montreal to attend McGill university deliberately picked it because, you know, it’s one of our great Canadian postsecondary institutions, particularly in the area of neuroscience. And as I began working with the rats that I was gonna be doing experiments with, cuz they’re great at running around mazes and you know as you’re studying learning and memory systems, which is what I was really interested in in, in looking at I had a severe allergic reaction and so had a hard time breathing and spent the next couple of years running the experiments with you know, seems like people would be so used to it today, but I had to wear an industrial mask. And and so it wasn’t, it wasn’t all that pleasant. And as I said, it was probably a sign that I wasn’t meant to do this.

Sam Demma (06:49):

So you made the decision to get the teaching degree because you enjoyed the teaching aspect of the job. What did the journey look like from that moment forward that brought you to where you are today?

Peter Sovran (07:01):

Yeah, so began my teaching career and I began in high schools and I was math science teacher, which sort of goes hand in hand with studying neuroscience. Weren’t too many jobs at that time. So my first job I took was actually in an elementary school, my former elementary school to be precise. And I started working alongside some teachers who had taught me. So that was that was pretty interesting. <Laugh> and and back then whenever you had the lowest seniority in a school, you were let go from that school and you were let go from the school board. And so that happened year after year. And even though that seems like a horrible way to start off your career, it provided opportunities, provided opportunities to go to different schools and teach in different grades, meet different people.

Peter Sovran (08:02):

And I think that that also helped you know, develop my my real interest for not only teaching in high schools and in elementary schools, but all grades. So by the time I moved in to becoming a principal, I had pretty well taught every grade or experienced every grade. And as I look back now, that was just a, a great opportunity. So I did that. And and then I had this unique opportunity to go work on a project with the ministry of education. And that connected me back to, you know, my science roots. I went there and I stayed for about six and a half years. Wow. Took on a whole bunch of different jobs there became a senior policy advisor. So I learned that side of things as well as education, I learned all of the, the policy side of the work.

Peter Sovran (09:01):

And then became a principal went back to the ministry of education and ran e-learning Ontario, which is sort of the online learning for the for the province. That was really cool. And and then I became a superintendent of education. Did that for a number of years became an associate director. And and then this past September became the director here on the upper grant district school board. So as I said, lots of twists and turns, but each one of them was a learning opportunity. And at the end of the day, that’s what it’s all about is continuously learning.

Sam Demma (09:40):

What, first of all, remarkable pathway, everyone I ask has a totally different journey to where they are today. It sounds like you’ve had your interests and curiosity pull you in so many different directions, which gives you such a broad perspective and diverse set of skills. What though keeps you curious and motivated to get up every day and continuously pursue new knowledge and do this work?

Peter Sovran (10:07):

Yeah, it’s that’s a great question. And it’s you know, that’ss, that’s the key, right? Is why, why do we get up each day and wanna keep doing what we’re doing? And so you’ll see from from my background, this is my office. You know, my office has a nice a chalkboard. If you were to see my desk, it’s it’s an old wooden teacher’s desk and I’ve got all the modern features there as well, but the reason why I’ve, I’ve, I’ve always wanted to set up my office in this way, is that each and every day, I need to be reminded the reason I come to work, the reason why the so-called corner office exists is to make sure that the decisions that we make help students with their pathways. Mm-Hmm, <affirmative>, that’s the passion, that’s the drive and sort of the blend of the, the modern and, you know, some of the traditional is also one of those things that drives me.

Peter Sovran (11:07):

What, what else can we do? That’s, that’s different, that’s new, that’s exciting, like doing a podcast with you you know, over zoom, right. We wouldn’t have done this a couple of years ago. Yeah. But you know, so that to me is still super exciting. Until every student can fulfill their own pathway, their own desires, then there’s work to do mm-hmm, <affirmative>, there’s something interesting to pursue, and it doesn’t have to be, you know, graduating from, from high school. But you know I had, I had a group of students a couple weekends ago, I went out to a performance that three of our high school bands had gone together and, and were doing this charity event. And so I had the opportunity to to speak with them as they were rehearsing in the afternoon.

Peter Sovran (12:01):

And you know, one of them asked me a question and they said, if you had a magic button, you could press and change things, you know, for the better what would you do? And I thought that was a great question. And, you know, my answer was I would press that button and enable every student to pursue what they wanted to learn and how they wanted to learn it. Mm. That would be one magic button. So that, but that, that’s what keeps it coming every day to to the job, because it’s the pursuit of that magic button. Really.

Sam Demma (12:39):

I love that perspective as someone who spent most of their life, chasing a dream that other people happen to deem as unrealistic. I, I will, I grew up on to play professional soccer. And by the age of 17, after three career ending, knee injuries realized it wasn’t gonna happen. Found myself lost. And I valued school very high up until that point, because it was a means to me getting a better soccer scholarship. If I had higher grades and the athletics, I could get a full ride scholarship to a school in the states. And after it fell apart, I felt a little lost and didn’t know what I wanted to pursue and ended up taking a fifth year of high school and then a gap year both of which made me feel like maybe I was following behind or making the wrong choice. And I think it was so important that I had people in my life who during those moments reminded me that every pathway is a valid option, you know, in every learner, it takes a slightly different path. And if every student could be encouraged to pursue their path and help help to realize that there is no correct or right or wrong choice, I think that would take a lot of weight off their shoulders.

Peter Sovran (13:52):

Absolutely. Absolutely. I mean, that, that’s that’s, the goal is you know, find what your passion is, what your interest is, and that can change, you know, you don’t have to set your course and, and have your learning driven that way. And through that passion and that interest, as opposed to it’s Tuesday, you know, so we have to learn this.

Sam Demma (14:15):

Mm, got it. When you think about educators who have been impactful in your life, who comes to mind and maybe it’s, it could be a formal classroom teacher, but it could also be anyone you’ve crossed path with who has had a significant impact on who you are and the way you see the world today.

Peter Sovran (14:34):

Yeah. It’s I, I think about that a lot. I had I had a great teacher grade seven and eight. Mm. And music teacher. And and while I don’t consider myself a musician that was a turning point in my life. It was an opportunity to be part of something bigger, which was a band and to, to play in a band. And and this teacher, you know saw something in me that suggested that I had some leadership qualities. And so I became the band leader in, in grade eight after spending grade seven, you know, really studying and learning the instrument for the very first time. And you know, I look back and that was one of those turning points. You know, this this belief that you could be a leader and someone who not only said it, but then, you know, work to develop some of those leadership skills.

Peter Sovran (15:34):

So I think of I think of that teacher, I think of you know, some some principles who I had both as a student but then also as a, as a teacher and then as a principal, myself, you know, colleagues who were just great listeners. Mm. And and you know, when I look back, I always think of the people who made the most impact on me were the ones who you know, let me take a chance, let me, they, they actually allowed me to, to fail, but with kinda a safety net. Hmm. And you know, and that’s something I, I always wanna carry with me and, and hope to, you know, inspire others with as well that you learn, you learn so much from taking a risk and taking a chance and sometimes yeah. Making mistakes.

Sam Demma (16:37):

You mentioned listening as one of the qualities of a leader, you know, people in your life that listened really intently, left an impact on you. What are some of the other qualities you think make up a great school leader, whether it be a principal or a superintendent or a teacher. Cause I think everyone in the school is a leader in some way, shape or form whether it’s leading colleagues or leading students. Yeah. I’m curious to know your thoughts on, on some of the qualities.

Peter Sovran (17:08):

Yeah. and again, your, your point around everyone’s a leader in, in one way or another. And so leadership qualities aren’t reserved just for those formal leadership positions. Yep. And so definitely listening is a real key. But also, you know making sure that as you listen, and as you, as you gather, people’s voice that your decisions are informed decisions that people are involved in decisions that you make together. Mm. And I think that that is such an important quality for, for anyone in a leadership position is that you know, you involve people not, not at the end, but at the beginning. And then, you know, I, I would say strong leaders also need to be decisive. Strong leaders need to be accountable. And you know, in, in a lot of the reading that I, I do about leadership some of the the things that would always stand out would be that you know, great leaders are the ones who take the responsibility when things don’t go well, always, always, and they always keep the praise on everyone else when things go well, because inevitably it’s the team effort that gets you, you know your results.

Peter Sovran (18:37):

So take the responsibility when it doesn’t go well and give credit when it does to the others.

Sam Demma (18:44):

Ah, I love that. You mentioned reading when in your life did reading nonfiction books become, and maybe it’s your whole life, but what, was there a tipping point where you fell in love with books on a continuous pursuit of knowledge? And if, if there was, I’m curious to know along the journey, what, what are some books that have stood out to you if you can recall some of them?

Peter Sovran (19:05):

Yeah, absolutely. So the one that I would just referenced would be Jim Collins. Good to great. You would come into my office, you would see it prominently displayed in my office. I refer back to it a whole lot. And I’m

Sam Demma (19:20):

Surprised you don’t have some fly wheels on your board back there. <Laugh> yeah,

Peter Sovran (19:26):

I I’ve always preferred nonfiction. I’ve really thoroughly enjoy reading biographies. Yes. About about politicians, about athletes, about, you know, inspirational leaders about people in general you know, people’s lives are fascinating. And I think as you, as you dig in whether it’s an autobiography or a biography and, and you learn about you know, people’s journeys there’s so much to glean from that. And for me, it, it’s just a reminder that nobody does anything on their own. It’s all in a context, it’s a context of, you know, whether it’s your family, whether it’s your friends, whether it’s your colleagues, whether it’s your, you know people that surround you, then nobody, nobody ever does anything on their own. And and so as I read these nonfiction and particularly these biographies, I’m always intrigued by, you know, what people have had to overcome and how they’ve you know, relied on others or as you described, you know, some of these important people in your life that you just go to and you think, wow, see, I always thought that person just was completely self made and became this instant, you know, in inspirational leader and successful person.

Peter Sovran (20:52):

And yet even they had that turning point or they had that person that they lean on.

Sam Demma (20:58):

Hmm. Yeah. I, I think you’re absolutely correct. Every, even the ones that appear like an overnight success often have so many things to share in interviews and that can disprove those assumptions about the people that helped them, how long it took for them to build what they did build. There’s a book called principles by Ray Dalio. And he has this one, maybe have you read it.

Peter Sovran (21:23):

I know it. Yep.

Sam Demma (21:24):

Yeah. So there’s one chapter and the title is, you know, you can have anything, but you can’t have everything. And I think this same applies to whatever you choose to pursue in life, but there should be an ad that you can have anything but not alone. <Laugh> yeah. Good point. Yeah. Because I think you’re absolutely right in saying it’s always the result of a collective effort or in some way, the influence of other people that you’ve met along your own journey. When you think about the people that impacted you you know, your grade seven teacher the colleagues and principals you have ha have had along the way, are there any that you still stay in touch with closely to this day?

Peter Sovran (22:09):

Well, that, that great seven teacher, I still stay connected with him. Nice. And still have a friendship after all of these years. And it’s been many, many years. Wow. I would say pretty well, everyone who I would describe as having had an impact if they’re if they’re still with us I make an effort to to stay connected with them. And and, and also, you know whether it’s this new role that I took on last September. And perhaps I had, you know, connected with someone for a little while I’d reach out and say you know, I’m doing what I’m doing right now, largely because of the impact you had on my life. And I think it’s so important to remind people of that.

Sam Demma (22:58):

I, I love it. I try and stay in touch with my grade 12 world issues teacher who had a big impact on me. And I can tell that every time I reach out to him, he has this sense of gratitude because maybe sometimes educators don’t hear it often enough from their students or their colleagues, the difference that their actions and choices make in the lives of others. Books have been a big part of your life. How else do you fill your own cup when you’re not working in the office?

Peter Sovran (23:27):

Hmm. So a couple of things. I for my own self care, I I run and I try and run usually four or five times a week with that comes the other setbacks with injuries which I’m dealing with right now. Oh, no. And you know, and so, and, and I run both for my mental wellbeing and for my physical wellbeing. But when it comes to the work I deliberately don’t spend a whole lot of time in my physical office. I spend time in different places within our school board. And I make a point there’s one day a week that I spend in schools and in classrooms. And sometimes it’s two days a week. And I always say the reason I have to be in schools and in classrooms to interact with students and with teachers and, you know, office administrators and caretakers is that that’s where the rubber hits the road. That’s where the action happens. That’s where the impact is. And as the leader of the organization, I need to be right there and see it and, and hear it. And so that absolutely fills my cup. I will say to people best part of my week is always when I’m in schools.

Sam Demma (24:58):

Hmm. There’s so many amazing things happening in schools. I’m sure you’re quite inspired by walking through the hallways, stopping in classrooms, hearing the discussions, but over the past two years, there’s also been an equal affair of challenges with shifts. And, you know, I shouldn’t say the word cuz they’re moving out of it now, but COVID, <laugh> I’m sure there’s been moments where teachers have maybe even reached out to you burnt out people that you’ve inspired looking for some advice or insights. If you were to paint a hypothetical situation of a teacher walking into your, your office, which you’re very rarely in any ways, which makes us more hypothetical and they sat down and tears in their eyes telling you, you know, this has been one of the hardest years of my life. I’m feeling burnt out. I’m not feeling inspired. You know, do you have any words of advice for me, if you could kind of share a quick little blurb for teachers who might be feeling this way right now, what would you share or tell them?

Peter Sovran (25:59):

Yeah. so it, it’s not even a hypothetical Sam it’s it’s, it’s the reality that you know, going back to, you know, the context everybody’s lived in the context of of COVID and the global pandemic for you know, since March of 2020, I remember that day leaving March 20, 20 thinking okay. A couple of weeks we’ll, we’ll be back, we’ll be back. And we’ll just pick things up. And here we are June of two and you know, the, as difficult as it’s been for students the absolute champions of education have been all of the educators, you know, the teachers, the educational assistants, everybody that works in the system they managed to leave in March of 2020, and within two weeks went from, you know, a physical classroom to, to this, to, you know, a laptop, maybe a camera and all of a sudden they had to take their craft and completely reinvent how they engage with students.

Peter Sovran (27:19):

So I’d say, you know, what you’ve done over the last two years has made a difference. It’s made a huge difference, you know? Yeah. I, when I was a principal, I used to always end my, the, the staff meetings with this one slide, what you do matters. And it’s so true what you do in a school, connecting with a student, listening, teaching it matters and it’s mattered more so in the last two years than probably ever before, because teachers and everyone that works with students, they’ve not only been able to connect with them, but they’ve also shown them that despite a global pandemic, despite the biggest curve ball, if I could use a, a baseball analogy that was that was thrown at you you know, we persevere, we, we pick ourselves up, we dust ourselves off and we focus on what matters the most, which is that human connection.

Peter Sovran (28:33):

And so, yeah, it’s been incredibly tough. There is no question about it. And you know, the other reminder is that, you know, our, our leaders in our schools, our teachers or principals, and, you know, again, our caretakers are off staff. They also have lives outside of school. Yeah. That have been, that have been impacted, you know, they’re caring for other people. They’re worried about other people they’re, they’re worried about themselves. And so, yeah, it’s, it’s been so incredibly difficult, but I would say that, you know our sector in education, I mean, you know, our, our healthcare workers have been heroes through this, but I would put our educators, you know, right up there. You’ve made the difference. You’ve been the ones who have been on the other side of the screen for your students who have otherwise felt, you know, disconnected and lost. So I’m just like everyone, you know, planning for a return in September that will not go back to the way things work. Cause I think we shouldn’t do that. We should never try and go back. We should always, you know, learn from the situations that we’re in take, what’s worked and, and keep moving forward. But I really do hope that September and the fall looks different than it has these last two falls.

Sam Demma (30:08):

You positioned it perfectly. <Laugh> different is a good, good way to put it. I know it’s been a challenge, not only for staff in schools, but for superintendents like yourself, anyone who worked in education. And in fact, I would say humanity as a whole has had a challenge, no matter what industry or, you know, vocation, you worked in. The challenge that I sometimes think about often is those educators that just began teaching and their first year was in the middle of the pandemic who didn’t have, you know, 10 years of previous teaching experience to compare it to, and maybe had been thinking to themselves, what the heck did I sign up for? I, I’m curious to know if you could go back in time to your first few years working in education with the experience you have now, what advice would you have given to your younger self when you were just starting that you think may have been helpful to hear, and maybe it’s something we’ve already chatted about that you can reiterate or some new thoughts?

Peter Sovran (31:14):

Hmm. Yeah. I I would definitely say to myself, you don’t have all the answers, so look to others <laugh> mm. Number one, number two it, it’s okay to, to make a mistake and to take a risk and you know, within, within reason. Right. and and if it’s because you’re, you’re trying to do something to, you know, I improve the lives of others then you’re always on the right side of that. And and so I, I would, I would definitely say that, you know, those who have come into the profession during the pandemic or into a new position and, you know, I include myself as one of those people. You know, I became the director of education here in the upper grand district school board on September, the first of, in the midst of a pandemic.

Peter Sovran (32:19):

You realized though that even though you were teaching or leading, you know, with a mask on perhaps and sanitizing your hands more than you’ve probably ever done in your life <laugh> and that you were, you know, shifting from being in person to then being back in lockdown to doing things virtually that fundamentally one thing has not changed. And that connecting with people has always number one, the number was that teacher that I was, you know, almost 30 years ago to someone who’s just now started just remember that whether you’re connecting through zoom or teams or in person always keep those connections open, build those networks you know talk to talk to others who, you know, have, have walked in your path before I’ll share this story. When I first started this job you know, I I, I took over for Dr.

Peter Sovran (33:30):

Martha Rogers, who had been the director of education, the only director of education that the upper district school board had ever had. Wow. She had been, she had been in the role for 26 and a years. She was the founding director of education, you know, the, the first and only ever CEO that the organization had. And you know, sadly we lost DRS in December. So I had a really short period of time where I had that opportunity to connect with her. And every two weeks we would have coffee together and and conversation and lots of conversation. And it was my chance to, you know, pick her brain about you know, her 26 and a half years of, of running the organization. And it was also her opportunity to pick my brain about what’s this guy gonna be doing now that I’ve handed over this organization after 26 and a half years.

Peter Sovran (34:33):

And what it speaks to is, you know, that human connection and realizing that we can all learn from each other all the time. And as long as you’re open to that, you have to be open to that. You’ll keep moving forward. Once you start thinking you have all the answers that nobody can tell you how might be able so or different then it’s, then it’s time to take a really hard look at am I, am I really coming into the job each and every day, because I love doing it still or is it time to do something else? And it doesn’t matter what profession or what job you’re in. Everybody gets to that point

Sam Demma (35:18):

What a great piece of advice, especially towards the start or end of a new academic year to reflect on, I think to set our sales in the correct direction and be honest, if it’s not something that lights your soul then it’s okay to shift your sail as well. We need people who really want to be in education to be in education and it sounds like your conversations with Martha had a significant impact on you and testament to her and the human connection that I hope everyone strives to have with their colleagues and their students. This has been an awesome conversation Peter. Thank you so much for taking the time to call on the podcast. If someone wants to reach out to you, ask a question pick your brain, <laugh> absorb some of your genius, what would be the best way for them to reach out or get in touch?

Peter Sovran (36:11):

You know we’re always available at the Upper Grand District School Board. You just drop a line to our general inquiry. Give us a phone call you know, we’re, we’re on the web at ugdsb.on.ca. You’ll able to find you know, our contact information. And I love working with people who who are interested in, in leadership in, in any capacity and it doesn’t have to be just in education. And of course I will shamelessly say, I’m always, always looking for people who are, are passionate about working with students. And you know, this school board is an amazing place to work. So if you want reach out and you know, share your, share your passion for for working with students and making their lives better because that’s what it’s all about.

Sam Demma (37:13):

Awesome. Peter, thanks again for doing this. It was a pleasure chatting with you. Keep up the amazing work and I look forward to chatting with you soon.

Peter Sovran (37:21):

My pleasure.

Sam Demma (37:23):

Hey, it’s Sam again. I hope you enjoyed that amazing conversation on the High Performing Educator podcast. If you or someone, you know, deserves some extra recognition and appreciation for the work they do in education, please consider applying or nominating them for the high performing educator awards. Go to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. You can also find the link in the show notes. I’m super excited to spotlight and feature 20 people in 2022. And I’m hoping you, or someone you know, can be one of those educators. I’ll talk to you on the next episode, all the best.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

September 12, 2022 by Association Director Director of Education Principals Student Success 0

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