Principals

Andy Rodford — Principal of Venture Gained Consulting

Andy Rodford is a seasoned educator and consultant with over 30 years of experience in both traditional and outdoor education. As Principal of Venture Gained Consulting, he currently works with K-12 schools, universities, camps, businesses, and leaders across North America, helping them bring strategic plans to life, build stronger teams, and create the time and space to focus on what really matters.

Andy’s background is a blend of academics and experienced leadership. He holds degrees in Biology, Geography, and Education, along with a Master’s in Educational Leadership and Management. He’s been a Head of School and Deputy Head at independent day and boarding schools, led Admissions and Advancement teams, and directed a large outdoor education center and summer camp, bringing his passion for experiential learning to life.

Beyond his institutional roles, Andy is a sought-after speaker and workshop leader at educational and camping conferences, sharing insights on leadership, change and risk management, strategic planning, and program development. When he’s not working with schools and organizations, you’ll likely find him wood carving, boating, or exploring the outdoors.

Connect with Andy Rodford: Email | Linkedin

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Resources Mentioned

Venture Gained Consulting

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Andy Rodford. Andy brings over 30 years of diverse educational expertise to his role as principal of Venture Gained Consulting, where he partners with schools, universities, camps, and businesses across North America to implement strategic plans and building effective teams. His multifaceted background combines academic credentials in biology, geography, education, and a master’s in educational leadership with hands-on experience as a head of school, deputy head, admissions and advancement leader, and outdoor education center director. As a respected speaker and workshop facilitator at educational conferences, Andy shares his insights on leadership and program development while maintaining his personal connection to the outdoors through wood carving, boating and exploration. Andy, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show here today.

Andy Rodford
Well, it’s great to be here, Sam. Thanks for having me on the show.

Sam Demma
How long have you been carving wood, my friend?

Andy Rodford
Well, you know what? I’ve been carving for now almost 25 years. And I had a friend that taught with the First Nations group in Hidaway, and he was our teacher at the local school. And he taught me the basics like he was taught from First Nations. And so I’ve been carving for 25 years. It is like zen. It’s my happy place. I’m not very good with idle time. So the reality of doing some wood carving, I mean, I can get lost in wood carving for hours and hours and hours and hours and just forget what day it is.

Sam Demma
It’s great. I noticed when we started the Zoom call for people tuning in, I saw something in Andy’s background. It looked like a wooden head of a bear behind you. Is that something that you carved?

Andy Rodford
No, it’s actually just a stuffed bear that somebody gave me years ago that I just thought, like every gentleman’s office ought to have like some sort of bear head, right? That’s awesome. No, not really. But actually, you know what, in the same background, you can actually see there’s wood carving that’s hanging on the wall. And it’s called a chain saw. So it’s the handle of a saw carved, like everybody knows what a handle of a saw looks like. And then it’s a series of wood loops that are all interconnected, but that are all carved from one piece of wood.

Sam Demma
Wow.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, so it’s pretty cool. And it turns into a chain where all the links are all separated. Yeah, it’s kind of fun.

Sam Demma
The audience wasn’t expecting this conversation, but last question on woodworking. What was the longest amount of time you spent working on one piece? And what was it?

Andy Rodford
You know what, I carved an orca as my first 3D, you know, sort of wood carving project with the help of the same guy that taught me. And I think I spent, I carved it out of Arbutus, which is a local wood on the West Coast that is very First Nations connected and it’s a beautiful wood, but it’s hard and it’s a tricky kind of thing to carve. And the orca is probably about two feet long and it’s in an arch like it’s coming out of the water. And I spent hundreds of hours on it. But you know, Sam, the carving was one thing, but then it’s the sanding. And I can see why First Nations carvers have apprentices that do a lot of sanding, because it’s a huge amount of work, but super proud of it because it was my first go at it. And so it’s one of the pieces that sort of sits around my house here that people comment when they come. But just the last point about that, the sanding of Arbutus, the last grit that you use is like 1500, which is like jewelry paper. Wow. And when it’s finished, it feels like marble. Like that’s how smooth and dense the grain is.

Andy Rodford
And so it’s a really fun thing to carve with, but it is kind of tricky because it’s really hard. Hard wood.

Sam Demma
That’s exceptional. Thank you for sharing that. It sounds like you have been working on wood carvings almost as long as you’ve worked in education. You know, tell me a little bit about your 30 years of experience in education and how you got into it.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, well, thanks for asking. I always wanted to be a teacher. I went to, to, I grew up in Quebec and in Ontario and I went to summer camp, which lots of kids do in the East. I went to camp for 25 years in a row. I started at six and then just sort of stuck with it the whole way. So, you know, I became hardwired to be an experiential teacher, you know, in the world of, you know, being a counsellor and a program director and a canoe tripper and all those right up to being a director of a large outdoor ed center in Ontario, which had, you know, like 900 kids and 140 staff and 17 countries worth of kids. It was like, it was like the, my first kick at the can of being a head of school. And so I really wanted, I really wanted to be a teacher. That’s one of the reasons why I have degrees in biology and geography, because when I went to university, I wanted to be able to have degrees in two different departments so that I could actually be very hireable and teach in the social sciences, geography, or in the science side of things. But when I started in teaching, I started in a very traditional classroom with a department head that probably should have retired like 10 years before I started teaching, and who was like the opposite of experiential educator. And then I really should have started my teaching career in the last 10 years because what I was doing like almost 30 years ago was very kind of camp focused. My classrooms were fun. We did a lot of fun things. We did a lot of experiential work, but back then it was objective-based learning. So it was like, you were supposed to go from 1.3 to 1.5 to 1.7 and assign things to be memorized for homework and all that kind of stuff. So I ditched classroom teaching early, went back to running outdoor education full-time for years as the director of a big camp. And then I had to make a decision, Sam, as to whether I was gonna be that guy that was gonna be like an 80 year old camp director, still doing like summer camp, or whether I was gonna actually come back into the school world.

Andy Rodford
So I put the word out, the independent schools and the private summer camps kind of run parallel to each other. And so when I put the word out that I was gonna come back into education, I actually came back into education as a senior director of a school. So I came right back in as a director of admissions and advancement and so I really in my career kind of bypassed that whole slog of working my way up through the teaching ranks. But it meant that at a really young age I became a really, you know, I became a senior staff member. I became a head of school, for example, when I was 38, which generally is about a decade earlier than most people who get their first headship. So I jump-started that. And then ultimately, when I was getting towards the end of my career, I realized that I didn’t really want to be head of school, mostly because of dealing with governance and all the politics. I love the interactions with the kids. I love the learning, the staff work, the building capacity, like a lot of the things that I’m doing now in my consulting practice, I was able to do by not being a head of school. So that’s why I was a deputy head of school for you know 12 years and when they when they actually went my last school they changed the head you know they did a search and uh and I didn’t apply uh even though I’d been at the school for five or six years at that point too much to people’s like you know like oh you got to be kidding me like you’re and I didn’t apply for all the same reasons that I just told you. And then the head couldn’t come for a year because of his contract. So the board came to me and said, we know you know how to do this job. So then I became head of school for like 14 months until the new head came. And then I went back to my deputy head role up to the point where I stopped like a year and a half ago.

Sam Demma
Okay, this is fascinating to me because I think a lot of people think there’s such linear paths toward certain positions in education, but also in any career or any industry in life. You’ve taken a very different approach.

Sam Demma
When you reflect on your experience as the Ed Director for camps, what are the skills you feel that you learned that were very applicable to that immediate position in a senior role with a school?

Andy Rodford
Well, I can tell you, and I know it’s kind of a theme of the podcast. I mean, it is all about the people. I said it when I ran the camp, I said it over and over many times at all the schools that I worked at. The schools, for example, or the camp will be here for hundreds of years after we’re all dead. And so while we’re here, we have to look after each other and we have to get the most out of our relationships. And because that’s where the capacity and that’s where the horsepower comes from, is harnessing all of that. And, and so I learned right away, you know, about the management of trust, for example, right. And that, you know, the the management of trust is, is, you know, it’s the thread that holds the whole organization together, but, but it’s work, and it has to be created and, and, and it has to be earned, and, and it has to be intentional, right? So I learned, you know, early, I actually had for another time, maybe a story where I had my entire leadership style changed in one conversation in in 1995.

Andy Rodford
With a with a mentor interaction that I had that that that just changed my whole leadership style to to be, you know, to recognize the fact that, you know, saying no to somebody is not a career ender. Being friends with everybody and kind of like going the extra mile in order to make sure that nobody dislikes you or any of those sorts of things are things that people like learn over time. Well, I had the advantage of having that information delivered to me in 1995 in one conversation by a mentor who knows who he is, and he changed my entire leadership style that I carry with me today.

Sam Demma
What did that individual say to you or make you feel that shifted that perspective so deeply for you?

Andy Rodford
Yeah, you know what? He was giving me the results of a 360 sort of feedback evaluation that I had asked for. And at that stage in my career, I was in the yeah, but stage. So, right. And I think we all kind of recognize that, you know, like you get a bit of feedback and then you go, yeah, but you know, and then you kind of just explain it away. And anyway, this, this guy was patient to a point and, and, and then he just kind of lost it on me. Like he, he just, he got mad at me in a way that almost like my own parents have never got mad at me. Like we kind of went up one side and down the other. And, and, you know, it was all about the management of a management of trust. It was all about, you know, the consistency and, and, and maybe if I can give you an example of that kind of demonstrates it, right. So if a camp, for example, if I had a counselor, so I’m the director of the camp, I’m carrying the clipboard, you know, I got all the really important camp director things that I gotta do, camp directors. And a counselor comes to me and says, Andy, the light bulb in my cabin is out and I need a new light bulb. And I dutifully write it down on my clipboard that Sam needs a new light bulb and then we part ways and all that sort of stuff. And then because I’m super busy in my role, I’m now on page four of my to-do list, right? So your light bulb is still mixed in there. But meanwhile, Sam is sitting in the dark. It’s now day three. You hate me because you asked for it. I’ve seen you like a hundred times and you’ve never said anything more about the light bulb to me. Now, as a director, every time you and I are walking by each other, I’m like, why is Sam giving me like the hairy eyeball light about, you know, like, cause I don’t even know what I’ve not done. And, and so if you back that up and go to a place where you say, Sam comes to me and says, I need a light bulb for my cabin. I should say at that point, Sam, listen, you know what? I don’t do light bulbs.

Andy Rodford
You need to go directly to the maintenance guys and get a light bulb. And as much as you don’t feel like you’re being service minded to Sam, that redirect might be off-putting for Sam, but A, he gets his light bulb within the next 10 minutes, and most importantly, Sam, you will never ask me for a light bulb ever again in our entire relationship, because you know the answer on where you get light bulbs from, and you don’t go to the director for that, right? So the notion of managing that trust and managing those elements, right? Because the first way I gave you, you know, the trust piece is going like right, you know, down the toilet almost, right? Like it’s in a death spiral if that just kind of carried on with no light bulb in day four, day five, whatever it was, right? And where I was curt with you and, and pushed you to another source, but it’s over. You got your light bulb and everybody’s learned and it didn’t even get onto my list. Right. So it’s, um, you know, a few things like that learning along, along the way, um, you know, was a, was a big, big advantage for me when I was younger in my career.

Sam Demma
You mentioned that you asked for feedback and that conversation was the result of this individual giving you this 360 feedback. How do you think about giving someone on your team feedback when they haven’t asked for it and you kind of wish in the back of your head that they did. Is that ever a situation the leader finds himself in? And how do you manage giving someone some suggestions when maybe they haven’t asked for them?

Andy Rodford
Right, well, that’s a responsibility that you have in the leadership mode, right? And I think that most organizations should have some sort of structure where they have feedback relative to your priorities. And there’s different kinds of feedback models that you can use that are really super friendly, even when it’s tricky information. And so, as a leader, you triage stuff, right? So is this something that I need to tell you right away because it’s a safety concern? Is this something that’s attached to your professionalism? Is this something that is like a nudge? Wouldn’t it be great if you maybe did this and considered it, like that kind of thing. There’s a whole gradation of the reasons why you would give feedback. But I think that most organizations should have some structure where there’s annual feedback or regular feedback. You know, a lot of schools and organizations have drifted into coaching cultures so that it just becomes part of every conversation. And I can talk more about a little bit of that later on in the conversation, because I have really strong opinions around the notion that every interaction that you have with anybody should be viewed as an opportunity, no matter how small.

Sam Demma
You believe that having a people first approach is really important. One of my mentors always says, you build the people and the people build the business, or you build the people and the people build the institution. It sounds like you have a similar philosophy. Tell me a little bit about that idea of the people first approach, and then maybe we can lead that into this idea of the coaching culture.

Andy Rodford
Sure. Well, I think that people first approach, I mean, you know, the, the, um, your friend is right. Like, you know, the reality is, is that you can build the most amazing, um, structure and organization, but if you don’t have the people, um, to, to run it, it’s doomed, right? Just like from a school context, if you have really great people, excellent teachers, excellent staff, you can teach kids in a trailer. In my case, you can teach them in the out of doors, at an outdoor aid, et cetera. You don’t need to fancy anything, right? So, I think it’s about prioritizing the, you know, sort of well-being growth and the engagement of people who make up the school community. So the staff and the students and the families and alumni and, you know, other community members and it’s, and it’s really sort of like the mindset that sees culture as the foundation for successful operations and not as a by-product of the operations.

Sam Demma
Right? So you’re intentional about the culture.

Andy Rodford
Very much so, right? Because if you put the people first approach in action, you know that educators thrive when they feel like trusted and supported and students learn the best when they feel like trusted and supported and students learn the best when they feel safe and understood, right? You know, when they belong. I mean, I mentioned before that I said that every interaction is an opportunity. Well, I made a sticker about a decade ago that actually says, enduring success emerges when learners are understood, engaged, achieving. And then it says, how are you ensuring that every interaction is an opportunity? And I gave that sticker to our 170 teachers in the school. And then of course they all looked at it and said, oh, that totally makes sense. If I understand Sam, then I know how he ticks, then that’s the avenue for him to be engaged. And when you’re engaged, you achieve. And then I said to them, I said, okay, well, that’s fine. But what’s your proof that Sam feels understood by you? And the whole room froze.

Andy Rodford
Like they just went dead silent, right? Because, you know, it’s super different to think about the data that you need to collect when you’re interacting with somebody to know that they feel understood by you. But you and I both, like I mentioned, one of my mentors, right, that changed my leadership style. I mean, everybody listening to your podcast will have somebody, a trusted adult in their world, that they really truly feel understood by them.

Andy Rodford
And then all of a sudden, you’ll walk like 15 kilometers in the snow to stand in their garbage, right? Like uphill both ways. You know, you’re totally engaged and then when that happens, then the achievement comes. You know, I’ll make a couple more points if that’s okay. If you adopt the mindset that every interaction is that opportunity, then, because you don’t know what’s going on in anybody else’s life, right? And there’s an old teacher adage that you may never, you may never get the chance to sit in the shade of the tree that you plant, right? And that’s because we teach kids and then they go off. And then only when you get old like me that they come out of the woodwork and they’re like, Oh, remember, you know, now they’re like 40 something and they’ve got kids of their own. And I say, Oh, my gosh, I say the same things to my kids as I as you said to me, you know, it’s, it’s pretty funny. But I had I had the number 212 on my bulletin board in my office for years. And people would come in and they’re like, what is that? You know, what is that? And I said, well, it was all about this concept, right? So 212 is the temperature that water boils. Right? And when water’s 211 degrees, it’s just really super hot, but you add one small, single inconsequential degree. To that water and it changes state, you know, it releases like masses of energy, you know, the, and, and so you just don’t know what one tiny thing along the way, good or bad, is going to like send somebody into that altered state. So if you think about that every time you’re having interactions with people from a people-first approach standpoint, then everything that you’re doing is kind of authentic, authentic, even though it has like a strategic kind of feel to it.

Sam Demma
I love that idea. I also, I have, I had an image in my head of the person who I feel understood by outside of my family, pop into my head immediately as you were talking about this whole idea of people that make us feel understood. And I started thinking about what that person did that made me feel understood and asking thoughtful questions, doing more listening than speaking, um, shifting my belief by asking, uh, intelligent questions, leading with humility, almost like a quiet champion. I’m curious, what are the commonalities you’ve found over the years of these people that tend to make other people feel understood? How do they do it?

Sam Demma
There might be a teacher listening that’s curious and they want to make their students or staff feel understood.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, well, I think, you really just have to, um, adopt the notion of, of the fact that you, from a leadership standpoint or from a teacher or whatever, whatever role where there’s a indifference in the power structure or, you know, there’s this implied notion that students are learning from us and blah, blah, blah, all that sort of stuff, even though I’m a firm believer that we learn way more from the kids. They say it takes a village to raise a child, but I think it takes a bunch of children to raise the village. That’s the real notion of it. And if you’re a leader and you’re, well, everybody’s a leader, but I mean, if you’re in a position where you have some control over the culture, if you believe that strong relationships drive better communication, collaboration, and outcomes, then you should be as motivated to find ways to do that in the best possible way.

Andy Rodford
Just like you want to find best ways to manage your budget and prioritize your well-being and all those sorts of things. So it just means that you have to become like super intentional and you need to like model empathy and active listening. You know, we talked about the management of trust, you know, valuing input from everyone, like so creating the structures that give everybody a genuine voice. So not just like, you know, surveys, but kind of real dialogue that gets data from people. And what else?

Andy Rodford
You know, investing in professional growth. I know that you’re so keen on the professional growth aspect as am I, right? So not just compliance training, but you know, all of the skills that we’re talking about are ones that are their skills. Like, so they, they got, they’d have to be learned and they also have to be like practiced over and over and over. Right. And if you lead with transparency, you know, like if you’re open about how decisions come and you actually recognize when you make mistakes, you know, that kind of vulnerability, um, you know, you become a bit of a magnet for, you know, that relationship that you’re talking about, right? You know, here’s another sort of like spin of that kind of thing. We use the word mentor a lot. And, you know, my concept of mentor, which a dear friend of mine shared with me and I couldn’t agree with more, is that mentor is very much a noun, right? So it’s always capitalized, right? And being a mentor is a gift. It’s not, right? It’s not something that you are to somebody else. It is that concept that somebody else has established you as a mentor. So when they call you a mentor, it’s a gift as opposed to a structure.

Sam Demma
I love it. I look forward to reading Chiz’s book.

Andy Rodford
Oh, you know who I’m talking about.

Sam Demma
I had the pleasure of having a conversation with him as well. And he shared so many unique ideas. You share so many philosophies that he shares and I am so grateful that I had the opportunity to chat with him and even now chat with you. I can draw a ton of similarities which are really inspiring. On the notion of professional development, because I know it’s something you value deeply and it sounds like a successful team values it as well. One of my favorite inspirations was a gentleman named Jim Rohn, who’s passed away now, but he wrote lots and has lectures online that I love listening to. And he would always say, your professional success will never exceed your personal development. He was a big advocate for the personal growth aspect of any job or career you get into. When you think of personal development, are there any resources that have been really instrumental in your own life or that you always lean on when it comes to teams? And maybe it’s not specific resources, but activities, exercises, or anything of that nature.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, well, I mean, there’s loads and loads of them, Sam. Like, you know, and you mentioned Ian Chisholm with the Roy group, like just to put that plug right in there, right? I mean, Ian and I have been good friends for a long time and, you know, we golf occasionally and we meet for coffee on a pretty regular basis, all that kind of stuff, right? So we definitely share a lot of mindset, but, you know, like the, interestingly enough, I would give Ian much credit in his, the structure that he puts in places with the Roy group that allows you to build on your leadership capacity, right? And they do a lot of stuff on looking in the opportunities in conflict. So instead of recognizing a conflict might be a hurdle, there’s always an opportunity that that’s connected to that. Right. So there’s a whole element of work and body that they do that would dovetail very much with what you’re asking about. best approaches. I think that finding, it’s really important to stay current in the changing landscape. So, Protea helps you stay informed and allows you to sort of lead from a place of knowledge as opposed to reaction, right? You know, there’s, you can go to conferences that help you sharpen your strategic thinking so that you can think in bigger picture stuff, you know, and how to align people and purpose and priorities, all that kind of stuff. You know, the, the, the, the reality of, of, of just sort of having that mindset of constant improvement in your leadership practice is key because then once you have that lens, so many different things like big programs for sure that are offered, but also little tiny things, right? Like I use a program, a protocol that’s by, from the National Reform Faculty Protocols, which, so which, which I’m a coach of. And, and they, you know, like there’s a, you know, a thing called Chalk Talk, for example, and Harvard University uses it a lot, you know, where, where you put some, you know, four or five really tricky questions around the room on chart paper, and, and you get all your people in there, you split them into groups. So there’s a group at each chart. And, and everybody gets a marker, and there’s no talking. So every every five minutes, like for five minutes, you write all of your answers feverishly, you comment on other people’s comments as they’re as you’re writing with your marker, and you move to the next question, which has already got everybody else’s thinking started. And by the time that you get around to the end, you have the whole room summarized their thoughts, and where you started, that group can actually look at where all the agreements are. I tell you that only because the coolest part is that there’s equity of voice in that, right? So if you’re thinking about the team, there’s lots of people on the team that just won’t put their hand up. They just, you know, they’re like submarines, right? Like they just kind of cruise around under the water. And then every now and then the periscope comes up and they say stuff that can swing an entire room. But, but there’s usually three or four people in the room who, you know, like to hear their own voice and, and, uh, and, you know, kind of monopolize things from time to time. So, you know, there’s leadership strategies along the way that help mitigate all of, all of those sorts of things. So this is what I’m talking like, management of trust is work.

Sam Demma
I know we’re a little over time here. Is it okay if I ask a few more questions? Yeah, 100% yeah, fire away. Tell me about your concept of the coaching culture.

Andy Rodford
Well, you know what, I think the coaching culture is key because you know, you’re constantly, it’s not filled with judgment. It’s built on the notion of growth. You’re open to the idea of feedback. There’s ways of using coaching models in order to build culture, in the sense of everybody having a shared language and a shared mindset. They all think differently, but they know how to communicate. Like I can tell you, if it wasn’t for a coaching culture that we had, our school would have not made it through COVID like we did. Right? The work that we put into in developing our coaching culture and how we communicate with each other, it made it easier for making decisions. And I think, you know, just as well as anybody else, that there were like decisions per hour that needed to be made. And then you get to the end of that day and every protocol changed for the next morning. So, you know what I mean? Like the, you know, people were potentially at their wits end, but because we had done all the work in the coaching culture and because we had invested in professional development and because we had managed trust, through that whole process, people had assumed best intentions. So, the gang who were at the school, who very easily could be like, Oh my gosh, are you kidding me? We have to put like more red tape on the ground. We have to close off all the fountains. We have to do all this sort of stuff and, you know, move our kids around. Anyways, as we came out with each change, they assumed best intentions. They knew, you know, Andy’s not doing this just for fun. Ah. He’s not doing this to mess with us. He’s not doing it, you know, I don’t understand why we’re doing it. I don’t agree with what we’re doing, but I’m going to pause and I’m going to ask clarifying questions. Right?

Andy Rodford
And, and those clarifying questions come without judgment, you know, and they’re answered without judgment. And so it just becomes, you know, a great way for, you know, check-ins can happen and shaping decisions. And it gives you, because you’re dealing with individuals, you know, sort you’re dealing with individuals, sort of feedback back and forth, it gives you way more opportunities to celebrate accomplishments along the way, which is something that helps build that, because it would be the questions that you’re asking as a coach-mentee kind of relationship, goes right at the heart of where their successes are. And to use a Roy group thing, you know, from a feedback standpoint, things are either, you know, either went well, they were tricky, and then what would you do differently if we’re going to do this again in the future, right? Like those become like the only three questions that really are important to ask. I love the idea of assuming best intentions.

Sam Demma
I even think about it in everyday life. Someone shows up late to a meeting, assume something went wrong and hope that they’re okay. Someone cuts you off in traffic, assume they’re rushing their kid to the hospital. It’s just a more joyful way to live your life than to assume the negative, right?

Andy Rodford
Right, but that’s work. Like you have to trap yourself in that moment to not have that instinctual sort of rage or whatever else, just from your traffic standpoint. Anyway, that is the key thing. But again, it comes with the foundation that you’ve built long before anything adverse happens.

Sam Demma
This has been such an insightful conversation. I really appreciate the time you’ve invested to have this conversation. If anyone’s listening and wants to reach out to you or do some work with you with venture gain consulting, what would be the best way for them to get in contact?

Andy Rodford
Well, I have my website is venture gained.ca. And so it’s pretty easy to get there. And and and there’s a contact page and all that kind of stuff. But Sam, the one thing I’ll say is that for those that are listening, I have a blog and a podcast page on the website that’s just filled with help-filled blogs. So things like the management trust pieces on there, the one degree of education, that’s the 212 thing, harnessing the power of productive failure, critical importance of cultivating leadership skills and teachers, embracing the power of differences. You know, there’s all kinds of things in there. And then I just posted one that is about the wet dog syndrome, because there’s the Canadian schools are getting together this week. And so I’ve posted that and the West, the wet dog syndrome of professional development, because people go to professional development and then they come back to their organizations. And and if you’ve ever been, you know, by the water side when a dog comes out of the water, what’s what do they do? They shake, right. And and you and water sprays all over the place. That’s the feeling that people have when others come back from professional development. They kind of just quietly sort of back away from you, you know, because they know they’re just gonna hit, you’re gonna hit them with all their new learning and we gotta change this and we gotta do that. And we, you know, and so it’s like the wet dog syndrome. So anytime I teach a workshop, I talk to the crowd about the wet dog syndrome and being, you know, there’s a whole toolbox in there about how to bring that learning back to your organization and get people to sort of buy in and adjust things. So it’s not just like 5% of what you learned. It can be like 95% of what you learned.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. I love that metaphor. Would the blog have a special link or is it your website forward slash podcast or blog?

Andy Rodford
It’s actually, um, I think it’s just forward slash blog, but if you go onto the website, um, it’s like the first tab, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll, you’ll see it. And just says, it just says blogs. And then, uh, and then click away. There’s about 25 different helpful bits and pieces in there.

Sam Demma
Awesome. Thank you so much, Andy. I’m taking some notes here. This has been phenomenal. Keep up the amazing work that you’re doing. And I hope to see some of your wood carvings in the future.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, well, there’s actually a blog post that’s gonna be coming out on the 8th that has a whole bunch of my carving on it. And because the whole notion of the blog post is about humanizing us as teachers and leaders, right? What does Sam do in his life that’s really interesting that I don’t know about that would make you way more connective to me in a professional relationship. And so I’ve got a whole blog that’s coming out. And so on the front page of the blog has a whole bunch of examples of my carving.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Thank you so much for sharing that. I find that maintaining personal practices while you pursue professional endeavors is so important. And anytime I’ve let go of those things, I start to enjoy my work less. I could, and sometimes I convince myself that I’m too busy to do certain things, but.

Andy Rodford
Yeah, yeah, well, so if you ever interview people that have worked with me, you’ll realize that one of the things that I did when I was at the school was I outlawed the word busy. You weren’t allowed to use the word busy and you weren’t allowed to use the word change. So, busy, when somebody says, oh, I’m so busy, then the instinct is that we need to rescue you. And then if you ask them for, you know, what help do you need? They’re usually like, oh, no, no, I’m good. It’s just that I, you know, and then all of a sudden, it’s like, well, actually, what your week is is full. And your day is hectic. But you’re not like a turtle that’s flipped on its back. It’s busy. And so, and then the change aspect is just, change is paralyzing, right? But if you shift, shift is easy.

Sam Demma
I love it. Thank you for sharing that shift.

Andy Rodford
Well, and there’s piles of shift all over the place. Like you can have some fun words that you can have fun with the word shift. Yeah, don’t throw your shift in my backyard. There’s a whole bunch on there. That’s awesome.

Sam Demma
Thanks so much, Andy. This is lovely. This is lovely.

Andy Rodford
Well, it’s a pleasure and thank you very much for having me on your show.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Andy Rodford

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education. By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators. You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Mark Chapin — Principal of Meyer Middle School

About Mark Chapin

Mark Chapin is the principal of Meyer Middle School in River Falls, Wisconsin, serving approximately 750 students in grades 6 – 8. Meyer Middle School was recognized as a National School of Character in 2016 and again in 2024. Mark has served as a building administrator in the School District of River Falls for 16 years.

Prior to coming to River Falls, Mark taught for 12 years in the Ellsworth Community School District as a high school special education teacher and an 8th grade US History teacher. While in Ellsworth he also coached cross-country, track, tennis and basketball. In 2008 Mark was recognized as the Teacher of the Year in the Ellsworth Community School District.

In 2019 Mark earned his doctorate degree from Bethel University. His dissertation focused on character education, leadership and the change process. Mark currently serves as a character education coach through Alverno College and on the Wisconsin Character Education Partnership Advisory Committee.

Mark works closely with the American Legion Post 121 in River Falls serving on their Veterans Memorial Committee. In 2014 he received the Post 121 Community Service Award.
Finally, in 2023 Mark was the recipient of the Herb Kohl Educational Foundation Leadership award.

In his spare time Mark enjoys fly fishing, splitting wood and mountain biking.

Connect with Mark Chapin: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Meyer Middle School

School District of River Falls

Ellsworth Community School District

Bethel University

Alverno College

Wisconsin Character Education Partnership Advisory Committee

American Legion Post 121

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Mark Chapin. Mark and I connected months ago now. He has shared some impactful quotes with me over email. He let me know that he has 16 rules or principles that he shares with his middle school students every single year and it’s a big hit in his school. He is a advocate and has a huge passion for character development and how it can shape the life of our young people. He works closely with the state of Wisconsin when it comes to character development and I’ve really enjoyed our conversations about books to read and personal development and serving and supporting youth. Mark, thank you so much for taking some of your time to come on the show here today.

Mark Chapin
Thanks a lot, Sam. It’s truly an honor and it’s a privilege to be on your podcast today. And we’re super excited to have you come to Meijer Middle School at the end of April. I know our students and our staff are looking forward to you and your message.

Sam Demma
Let’s hope by then the snow storms have passed. Yeah, I agree. The weather’s back to normal. Do me a favor, Mark, and just take a moment to share a little bit about who you are and what got you interested in building and supporting the character of young people.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, my background, I grew up actually, it’s kind of a crazy story, but I’m the principal. I’m actually sitting in my principal’s office. I graduated from Rural Falls High School in 1990, which is in western Wisconsin. Went to UW-Eau Claire, which is in western Wisconsin, and got a degree, a 1.8 degree, with a special education minor. Student taught at the tribal school up in Hayward, Wisconsin, which is about two and a half hours north of our home here. And then ended up teaching for 13 years. I was a special education teacher for six and then I was a US History teacher for six years. And then I was an assistant principal at Ellsworth High School, which is right down the road, before coming back to my home in River Falls, and I’ve been here for 16 years. In terms of what got me really into education, my mom was a special education paraprofessional, and she provided me some opportunities to work with students, and I also had an opportunity to coach basketball when I was a senior in high school. A group of us, four guys, coached our seventh grade team. And I really realized at a pretty young age that I really had a knack and really enjoyed working with kids. And so my dad wasn’t too keen on me being a teacher. He was worried about me making enough money and supporting myself. So I actually went to school to be an econ major.

Mark Chapin
I did that for a year and I realized I have no idea what a person with an econ degree does for a living. But I always knew in the back of my mind I wanted to teach. And then I worked at a summer camp for five summers up at Eagle River, Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin. And I just I think I followed my calling at that point. And in terms of the yes question about character education, I’ve always been passionate about positive psychology, you know, developing ourselves, but then how can we take that and apply that here at school? And I was fortunate enough to be on a committee called the Healthy Lives Committee through our strategic plan and pitched this idea of character education. And it’s kind of evolved here in our district and it’s being implemented in all of our schools, our four elementary schools, our middle school and our high school. And I just feel like historically education has been something where, you know, going back to Horace Mann and Thomas Jefferson, it was educating the head and educating the heart. And I feel like we’ve gotten away from the heart. And so it’s something that I’ve just been really passionate about.

Sam Demma
When you talk about character education, tell me more about what that means to you or what that lens looks like that you look through when you talk about it.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, that’s a great question. What I know is that the best teacher of character are adults in our kids’ worlds, and that starts with parents. But we also know students don’t grow up, our kids don’t get to pick their parents.

Mark Chapin
But definitely, character has to start in the home. And so as adults, we need to make sure that we’re modeling good character. And so within our district, we wanted to find a model that was out there. And we looked at different frameworks.

Mark Chapin
The one that we came across was from character.org. It’s based on 11 principles. It’s not a canned curriculum. It really helps shape your culture of your school. You start off with principle one by identifying what you value as a community. In our district, we sat down with 40 community members.

Mark Chapin
We went round and round and round. We had two really lengthy meetings and we landed on nine character traits that we value as a community. And that’s true for the framework. So the community can decide what they value. And these are universal values.

Mark Chapin
And I think people get hung up on this idea of values and ethics, but it really transcends all religions. It goes back to Aristotle. And when you read off the list of these character traits or values, it’s hard to argue with them. So things like gratitude, curiosity, respect, responsibility, compassion, perseverance, you know, it’s hard to argue with those things. So, you know, we start with the framework. I mentioned modeling, that’s principle eight, but that framework has really guided our work. And it’s the work that I have an opportunity to work with other districts on how to implement that framework.

Sam Demma
How do you ensure the principles or values are consistently reinforced within the school community? It sounds like they become foundational. Is it month by month? Is it through the teachers? Obviously, modeling the behavior must be a big part of it. But I’d love to hear more.

Mark Chapin
Yeah. Yeah, it’s a great question. So we we focus on one character trade a month and we kind of joke that, you know, once we finish the perseverance, that kids don’t have to persevere anymore.

Mark Chapin
That’s not the case. We want to make sure we’re doing these all the time, but we do do a character kickoff once a month. I get a chance to get in front of kids. We define what it is. We talk about what it looks like. I usually typically show a video. If you guys or anybody out there listening wants to find some really good resource, go to Steve Hartman, Kindness 101. They’re short clips. He’s from CBS and he’s fantastic. So we show a video and then we do a quick reflection, and I send them on their way. We have a group called Girls Who Give Back that signs up around the building, so it’s communicated, so there’s that kind of visual marketing of it as well. And then each grade level has a different theme. That sixth grade focuses on what’s called the Everest Project every year, and that’s focusing on goal setting, so identifying your goals, identifying your character strengths, so they go through a strength finder with the kids, take them through the goal-setting process. That’s really inspiring for our kids.

Mark Chapin
Seventh grade is our service-learning project, so giving back. So, it’s the, when we talk about character, we talk about the head, getting kids thinking about it, the heart, getting them feeling it, and then the hands. So the head, heart, and hands, the hands part is going out in the community. And I’m sure you’ll talk about this with your backpack and your taco and all that,

Mark Chapin
which I’m looking forward to our kids hearing that story. So that giving back, the hands-on, the service learning. And then eighth grade, we have what’s called academic career planning. So we’ve charactered into that as well. And so we have a career fair, and through our careers class that we have in eighth grade, we identify kids’ strengths, we do career interest inventories and those types of things. So, and then like I said, we model it, we have to model it, continue to model it. And then the framework itself, the 11 principles, there’s a rubric that goes with it. So every three years we come back, we identify what we’re doing well, we identify one goal area to get a little bit better every year.

Sam Demma
It sounds very methodical and thought out. And I hope that if there’s another educator listening to this and they’re curious, they reach out to you to ask some questions about it so they can bring something similar to their district or their school. It sounds like you’ll be doing this work even after you finish at the school. So I’ll definitely make sure we include your email information in the show notes in case anyone does want to reach out.

Sam Demma
I had an educator who pulled me to the side of his desk and he said, Sam, living with principles and working hard is never a waste because it builds your character and you carry your character forward with you for the rest of your life. Living with principles and working hard is never a waste because it builds your character and you carry your character forward with you for the rest of your life. How do we remind young people that every choice they make impacts their character, both the positive and the negative? And when a student does make a mistake, how do we address it in a way that builds them up instead of tears them down?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s a great, great question. And I mentioned my 16 life lessons, and one is be forgiving. And so my middle school has been recognized twice as a national school character through character.org, once in 2016 and again in 2023.

Mark Chapin
And I often talk about just because we’ve been recognized as a national school character doesn’t mean we’re perfect. We work with imperfect human beings and I wish I could control everything that comes out of 750 kids’ mouths and all their actions, but I can’t. And so we tell kids that and we have to be forgiving of ourselves. And anytime there’s a kid that’s in any type of trouble or hasn’t demonstrated good character, I let them know, like, listen, good kids make poor choices.

Mark Chapin
They make bad choices sometimes. It doesn’t make them a bad person or a bad kid. And so kids need to hear that. And the important thing is to reflect on it, learn from it, and try not to repeat it. I think that that’s the important thing when it comes to, you know, that we aren’t perfect and we are gonna make mistakes, but we’re gonna keep striving for it, right?

Mark Chapin
You wanna strive for excellence, strive for good character. And you mentioned the other thing is, one of my other life lessons is yes and no are the two most important words we’ll ever use in our life. Right, so sometimes it’s a split split split second. Like, and so we talked about the importance of pausing before you say something to somebody. Pause before you do something that you might regret.

Mark Chapin
So just take a second to pause. And so that’s one more reminder when we talk about character.

Sam Demma
Where did the inspiration come for you to sit down and craft some of the principles, the 16 life lessons you shared with students? I have recently been inspired by many authors, some of which are very much focused on building your life’s philosophy. One is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, who’s passed away now. And he spends his whole lecture talking about the importance of philosophy and how circumstances determine where you start, but your philosophy determines where you finish. What inspired you to start crafting this life lesson philosophy for your students?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. Again, our podcast, isn’t going to see this, but this is by my desk. We had a keynote speaker that came by, I don’t know how many years ago, and this is when I was teaching, grade. And it was fundamental rejuvenation. And it had 12 things on it. And I started looking at the list.

Mark Chapin
I was like, those resonate with me. And I said, are there more to that? Or am I on the same page with this, our speaker? And I think kind of in some ways, these are the character things that we pass on to our kids. Before I knew it was character when I was teaching, you know, this was 15, 16 years ago, probably longer than that, almost 20 years ago now, I wanted to pass this along to my students. And so a lot of this is really character-based stuff that probably at the time I didn’t realize was character, but these are the things that kids can take with them that’s gonna make an impact. And I think about like employers, what are employers looking for? I mean, do they want a positive attitude? They want people that can collaborate with other people. There are all these intangible things we talk about character, but where is it being intentionally taught or implemented in schools today? It is just so important.

Mark Chapin
And you can you can look at all the research on it. What employers are looking for: teach the skill and hire for character.

Sam Demma
I had a mentor tell me at the bottom of my job application to put a filter that said, if you believe you’re the right fit for the role, please record a one minute video explaining why. And I was hiring for an executive assistant and we spent $250 on LinkedIn promoting the post. And we received 2000 applications.

Mark Chapin
Wow.

Sam Demma
Guess how many people filmed and sent through a video? 14. And when you do the percentage, it’s like 0.01, less than 0.01%.

Mark Chapin
Wow.

Sam Demma
And I thought, wow, like attention to detail. This role requires attention to detail, yet 99.9% of people didn’t even read the actual job posting. And the reality is that these are individuals who are unemployed and looking for employment. And I was like, ah, like I just wanted to shake them and just grab them and say, come on, you deserve better than this. You can do better than this. And I think that a piece of that comes back to character and how you treat every interaction and every touchpoint in life. And you piqued my curiosity with the 16 lessons, and now you’ve shared two.

Sam Demma
Do you mind sharing a few more of them that are top of mind right now?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, so you just mentioned, kind of just taking pride in your work, right? Attention to detail. We talk about be a craftsman. So back in the day, how people got business is through word of mouth.

Mark Chapin
And so craftsmen would sign their name somewhere on a piece of furniture. So we talk about when you do turn your homework in, sign it with pride. Like you’re the craftsman, make sure there’s attention to detail. Did you read the directions? Are you doing your best work? I talk about, and this is a good example of taking pride in your work. I asked the kids, how many of you mow the lawn? There’s quite a few kids that still mow lawn. I said, how many start daydreaming? A lot of hands go up. How many of you start daydreaming and all of a sudden you look back and there’s a 20-foot strip that you completely missed? I said, okay, me too. I said, how many of you go back and mow it? Half the hands go down. I said, how many of you go back and mow it? You know, they keep their, that’s pride in your work, right? Are you going back and mowing that strip of grass? So that’s another one we talk about. I’m big in having a positive attitude. I think people, it’s hard to be around people that are negative. I think it sucks the life out of you.

Mark Chapin
I talk a lot about Viktor Frankl, the last of our human freedoms is the ability to choose our own attitude. We talk about that. The importance of goal setting. I share a story about Billy Mills and his goal setting process. He won the 10,000 meters in the 1960 Olympics. Talk about leaving your comfort zone. What else? I mentioned the yes and no.

Mark Chapin
Your true character is how you act and how you behave when nobody’s looking. So that’s important. Finding a career you love. Taking care of your body. Here’s an example of you never know how your words are gonna have an impact.

Mark Chapin
We talk about how your tongue is like the rudder of a ship and it can steer you one way or the other. And your words can build people up or tear people down. Like use it to be encouraging. The word encouragement means putting courage into others. And so I shared this story when I was in college. I was getting out of shape. I used to be in really good shape.

Mark Chapin
I was putting on weight. I looked at myself in the mirror when I was a senior in college, I was like, isn’t this the best shape I’m gonna be in the rest of my life? And so, sorry, I should have taken my phone off the hook.

Mark Chapin
Sorry. I started training for a marathon. I signed for a marathon the next day, started training. I had really no business to start, but I did. And I finished my first marathon. And so I shared this story. I mentioned my life lessons. I shared with my eighth graders. And didn’t think of anything other than the last day of school, I shared my list. I shared on the first day as well. And three years later, the student came up to me. He was at prom, and he said, you don’t recognize me, Mr. Chapin, do you? And I said, no, I don’t.

Mark Chapin
He said, your face looks familiar, I can’t picture you. He goes, you don’t recognize me because I lost 100 pounds. I said, how in the world did you lose 100 pounds? He said, I remember what you told me on the last day of school in eighth grade. I started to watch what I ate and I lost. You just, you never know how your words are going to impact people.

Sam Demma
I think it’s such a crazy and beautiful experience when you share inspiration and you’re not sure who it’s going to touch, how it’s going to touch them, when it’s going to click, but when you do see the result of that, it’s really gratifying. You know, I had a mentor for three years named Chris Cummins who is now like an uncle to me in many regards. And he would say, Sam, try this, do this. And, okay, coach, I’m doing it. And every time I would show up and I would try and I would take the shot he told me to take. And after three years, we’ve now transitioned from a coaching relationship just to very close friends and colleagues. And he hasn’t coached anyone else or taken many people on. And he’s like, you know, I tell a lot of people to do the same things I told you to do and most people don’t.

Sam Demma
And I, and I just think, what phenomenon is that? Like, how do we explain that? You know, and this is a person I wanted to be like, and I looked up to, and it sounds like that message you shared really connected with that young person. I’m sure it made you feel like good about it, right?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s the whole starfish. You probably read the starfish, right? Yeah.

Sam Demma
Yeah.

Mark Chapin
It’s like the thousands, you just don’t know if you’re going to make an impact. And there’s certain days where you just you get tired and you get frustrated. Like, am I making am I making an impact at all? And then you’ll get that one note. We’ll get that one email or that one phone call. It’s like, yep, it made a difference.

Sam Demma
Now, what habits do you practice consistently outside of your time

Sam Demma
in the classroom that helps you show up as best you possibly can.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, that’s another great question. First of all, I think self-care is important. So I know when I’m getting anxious and edgy, like if I’m not exercising regularly, I’m not my best self. I do my best thinking after exercise. I’m always in a positive mood,

Mark Chapin
even though I don’t feel like at the time getting up in the morning, like I’m swimming laps or riding my bike in my basement in the winter time. Like that’s important. I think reading devotions, I start my day every day with two devotions.

Mark Chapin
I send out the daily quote, which I’ve sent to you the last couple of days now. You’re on a very select list of people I send it to. But I do send it to my staff every day and then my staff pass it on to their kids in the morning. Not all of them yet. I’m trying to get them to do that because there are such great quotes. That’s from values.com if you’re looking for some kind of motivational boost.

Mark Chapin
You mentioned Jim Rohn. Just watching YouTube, a lot of positive psychology, how can I better myself? Those are kind of the main things.

Sam Demma
I read a book recently that was really influential to me called Turning Pro by a guy named Steven Pressfield. And he talks about the difference between amateurs and professionals. And to be frank, I felt quite embarrassed about myself after I finished reading the book in a really good way. And I think sometimes the inspiration comes from an emotion like embarrassment. And for me, it came from this idea that I’ve spent a lot of time speaking, and especially in the earlier parts of my career, practicing my speeches and consistently writing.

Sam Demma
And then I got so busy, I would just write and speak when I was on the road doing it for people. But outside of that, there wasn’t much of a daily habit and or practice of doing it. And that book really clearly outlines that professionals have a daily practice, and they have a space where they practice, and they have a time when they practice, and they have an attention around their practice. And they show up every single day, and they’re ruthless with their work. They are craftsmen. He shared a story of Pablo Picasso, and someone bought his paintings and stuck them in a gallery.

Sam Demma
And two years later, the gallery opened, and Picasso walked in as a guest to check out his paintings. And he grabbed a razor and cut all of his paintings up on the wall into shreds. And the gallery owner said, what are you doing? And he said, this work is pathetic.

Sam Demma
It’s not a reflection of my work. I will get you some new ones. And I just thought, what a standard to hold yourself to, but to be a true craftsman. And I really appreciate you sharing that reminder to just continue being a student and listening to the things that will change your mindset and continuing to read.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, you mentioned, Sam, that consistency. I just share this with our students in our auditorium with one of our character kickoffs, just how important that consistency with either training or practicing. And I shared with them that it took me five years to finish my dissertation to get my doctorate degree. And I wasn’t making progress. I just, I wasn’t getting it done. And the lit review, the reading, this takes forever. I kept driving by this house in my neighborhood that the workers would show up every day at 6:45 and there they were. And before you know it, the foundation was built and then the framing was up. And I realized like, if I’m gonna get this dissertation up, I have to do work every single day. Otherwise the house isn’t going to get built. My dissertation is not going to get done. And that’s when I started making progress on my paper. Yeah.

Mark Chapin
You know, it’s funny too.

Sam Demma
Jim Rohn often says, my life changed when I was 25. I feel like I was subconsciously waiting until 25 to get in the saddle more consistently for certain things, you know? But I sincerely appreciate your time and the intention around all the work you’re doing. I’m beyond excited to visit the school soon and meet in person and collaborate with your school and your students. If there’s an educator listening, I’ll put your email in the show notes so they can reach out. Absolutely. But I wanted to just say sincerely, Mark, thank you so much for the time, the energy, and everything you’re doing in education.

Mark Chapin
Thanks, Sam. I appreciate it. And hopefully we get out fly fishing when you come to River Falls.

Sam Demma
Can’t wait.

Mark Chapin
All right, Sam, good to talk to you.

Sam Demma
Talk soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Mark Chapin

April 8, 2025 by Sam Demma Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Student Success 0

Lynne Beck – Principal at Diamond Jenness Secondary School

About Lynne Beck

Lynne Beck fell in love with the North, its people, and the unique lifestyle it offers when she first arrived in the Northwest Territories in 1992. She initially came to the western NWT to offer short-term swimming and canoeing programs in the Tlicho & South Slave regions. After completing her Bachelor of Education at the University of Prince Edward Island, she was drawn back to the North in the spring of 1993, where she returned to Fort Resolution to establish a long-term swimming and canoeing program and stayed on as an Adult Education teacher.

Her journey in education continued when she moved to Hay River in 1994 to work with Aurora College in Adult Education. In 1998, Lynne joined Diamond Jenness Secondary School (DJSS), where she has held various roles, including Junior and Senior High Teacher, Program Support Teacher, Vice Principal, Guidance Counsellor, Academic Advisor, and ultimately Principal since 2014.

Lynne’s dedication to nurturing the next generation is deeply influenced by her mentor, Ainsley Rose, who emphasized that everything educators do should focus on maximizing student learning and that hope means “helping other people excel.” As a mother who raised her children in Hay River, Lynne sees her legacy not only in her professional roles but in the way she has shaped and influenced her family and the students that she and her dedicated staff have the honour of educating.

Lynne’s love for the North continues to shape her work, as she is committed to making a difference in the lives of students and the community she calls home.

Connect with Lynne Beck: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

University of Prince Edward Island

Aurora College

Diamond Jenness Secondary School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam. And today we are joined by someone I met six months ago, seven months ago over a Zoom call that was supposed to be 30 minutes and lasted an hour for our joint passion for education and young people and making a difference. Today’s guest is my new friend, Lynn Beck, the principal of Diamond Genesse Secondary School. Lynn, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Lynne Beck
Well, thanks for having me.

Sam Demma
Do me a favor, take a moment to introduce yourself and share who you are and what got you into education. Oh, okay.

Lynne Beck
Well, this is, I actually started in recreation. I did waterfront programming back in, I don’t know, let me date myself here, I guess that would have been starting in around 1992, I guess, if I do my northern journey. Prior to that, I heard about the Canadian North. It had always been, with my water, my love of the ocean, always had been a dream of mine to be able to swim in the Atlantic, the Pacific, as well as the Arctic Ocean. I am very happy to say that I made that happen as coming up to the territories. What got me into education? I think partly by chance, definitely, and I’m very much, I did a sort of a work checklist, like what would make you happy one time, and it was like an inventory and what came out of it for me was that challenging renewal drives me. Like that’s my key motivator in my life. So when I look back or I reflect on things as I’m entering, this is my, I guess officially I started in 93 in Port Resolution, Moved to Hay River, or the Hatlodichay Territory, in the end of 1994. Started in adult education and then loved it, absolutely loved it, but didn’t want to not experience working with youth in an educational setting and not just a recreation setting. So, yeah, I feel like I’m all over the place. I can’t keep my head on one question for you.

Sam Demma
But your passion for education has kept you working in it over an extended period of time. It sounds like you found it a little bit by chance, a little bit by design. What keeps you working in education though? What’s the why behind your work?

Lynne Beck
The why behind my work, I would have to say, is an opportunity to accomplish something that’s more than simply what I do. To have an influence, it’s not even as much as an influence as it is to help support others to find their voice. I would have to say that I didn’t, I can honestly say I did not have a voice when I was in school. When I went through the school system, did not have a voice. I was certainly not the perfect student. Shout out to all of those poor people who had to educate me back in the day. I’ll not say where. But yeah, I’ve heard it said that from a parent’s perspective, that the most important thing we ever accomplish is not what we do, but what our children are able to do. kids, but for other kids. And sometimes it’s easier to bring those things out in other people’s children than it is your own. And having had a couple of my own, I now understand that. I believe that our circumstances determine where we start, but our philosophy, our support determines where we finish.

Sam Demma
And you’ve had some incredible stories of success come out of Diamond, the school community. When you think of some of the stories of student success, without sharing a name, is there any that come to mind, you can even change their name if it’s a story that’s a little personal, but I ask because a lot of people listening to this are in education because they want to support and serve and amplify young people. I think it may just remind someone why they got into that work in the first place if they hear about some of the impact. Yeah, it’s tough. Even

Lynne Beck
changing names is tough. So when I think about that… From a high level without a specific story. Yeah, from a high level. Okay, so I think one of the things that kept us speaking a little bit longer than our anticipated, you know, 20 minutes, half an hour, was probably a statement something like this. From 2022 to early 24, our community was evacuated full, slate, full on, community evacuation three times within a 15-month period. And despite that, we had students complete their high school requirements for graduation, in addition to being able to be accepted into Southern institutions and in a small Northern community. When students are accepted into Southern institutions with scholarships and into some amazing programs as well as are also able to go into trades opportunities and when our community, when communities get destroyed, you realize how important trades people are. They literally, without them, we wouldn’t have our homes, we wouldn’t have the infrastructure and the things that keep us warm on days like today where it’s minus 45 with the windchill and vehicles are, you know, vehicles and plumbing and all of those kinds of things still need to operate. So, guide me back to the question.

Sam Demma
When you think of some success stories as a result of education, are there any that come to mind that may inspire a listener who is really getting into this work because they want to help people. I think the fact that there was a collective graduation at the school is exceptional. I’m curious to know, like what do you think contributed to that success despite the setbacks? The team, being acknowledged,

Lynne Beck
students having an opportunity regardless of the cards that they have been dealt, whether it be as a collective, as a community, or even personally, having an opportunity or having someone notice that they have gifts, they have value, helping them find their voice. And watching that, being able to watch someone. We’re an eight to 12 school, so being able to watch, you know, that very young, often timid, a little bit scary, it’s the high school, like everyone’s afraid of high school, right? Trying to get substitute teachers to come in the building. It’s watching that progression from being that shy, timid, doesn’t know, afraid to walk across what we call our concourse and am I wearing the right clothes? Am I doing the right thing? Are people, am I going to be accepted? And then later on and as they progress, am I going to be accepted for who I am? And then before they graduate, am I going to be accepted for what I become and where I go and come back. Like it’s being part of what many people, I believe, that are in education have had the experience of having someone notice them or notice the good in them, because we’re really good at being self-critical, even at a very young age. How do you acknowledge somebody as an educator?

Sam Demma
How do you acknowledge a student in a way that affirms them? And everyone is different, so maybe it’s not a one solution fits all answer, but have you seen it done that you think other educators may be able to replicate? You notice everything and you accept everything, especially the mistakes.

Lynne Beck
We have got to in education, and that’s one thing as a team I feel we do a really good job here. You have got to move beyond the, you know, the teacher is all-knowing, the teacher is perfect, our systems are perfect. We are a human system built for human beings, and human systems and human beings have to make mistakes. We are programmed to make mistakes. Just like, or I guess equally important to that is we’re programmed to learn from our mistakes. And if we don’t learn from our mistakes, we will repeat those mistakes. And so being someone to help stop that cycle of mistake-making and open up to the possibilities that there might be a different way of doing things that works better. I mean, there’s some common speeches that some of my kids, generationally now, have had to listen to, and it’s, you know, is that working for you? Did that work? What about trying this next time? Restorative practices, actually, are the one thing for myself because in all honesty when I started in administration back in 2008 Hey, I wasn’t necessarily wanting to do that Like who really wants to be the VP of any high school? Did you know you’re the one in charge of discipline? Not like it’s a rodeo that I I didn’t have Really a whole lot of desire to do my kids were you know, baby kids back then. But anyway, that was the position I took. That was the challenge that I decided to take on at that time. And in that first year, that was probably one of the lowest points in my career. And not because of who I worked with or the kids I worked with or where I was, But it was the role that had been established that had been done that way for years. And at the end of the year, the thing that stood out for me and that I knew I had to change, that was 2007-8 actually. So it ended in the spring of 2008. I reflected and said, if I can’t do things differently, I want to I’m not doing this again. So, and the reason for that is that the thing I will never forget is a staff that I own because I did it, so I’m not gonna blame anyone else, but I had 417 and a half suspension days signed by me. So, 417 days and I was only one of two VPs at the time and the principal also did some suspensions as well. So I don’t know the collective. I only gathered those stats on myself and I said, I can’t do it. I won’t do it. We’re supposed to be about educating students, not reminding them why they don’t deserve to be here. That is not helping them find their voice. That is not…

Lynne Beck
I don’t know. There’s a whole… We could do a whole podcast on, actually, we could do months of podcast time on the de-implementation of things within the school system. We spend a lot of time talking about the latest and greatest, and there’s all kinds of books published by all kinds of wonderful companies, and it’s fantastic. But that de-implementation, in my opinion, is just as important as implementing new things. But coming back to the restorative practice piece, which also leads to one of my biggest mistakes, because when I started that process, I worked with a UCAN organization who had done a lot of work with the United Nations. They were located in Ontario. I ended up doing a student exchange and all kinds of things to try to have kids that had been experienced, you know, that type of thinking, instead of getting away from, you did, therefore you’re punished before you’re able to come back. It kind of, we started what we thought was restorative when we really looked at the term restitution is still not allowing the two parties to regain their dignity. Restorative practice allows both parties. You need to have willing participants and you need to have… It takes a lot of time. However, the investment in doing that Doing that allows people to accept the fact that we are programmed to make mistakes and learn from them.

Sam Demma
And it makes it okay. What is the big difference between a restorative practice and just restitution, as you mentioned?

Lynne Beck
Restitution focuses on the person who did the wrong to come up with a plan or a way way by which they do something and that thing doesn’t necessarily have to be with another person. It can be, I’m going to shovel the sidewalks of the school, you know, those kinds of things. It’s not about repairing the relationship and not all relationships are meant to be friends, but to do that in a way that respects both of your rights to be in this building and to be educated, maybe sometimes even in the same class, and not to be friends. Learning to be friends and to not be friends is really, really important. It’s a skill and I believe they’re equally important.

Sam Demma
I remember when I was in grade seven, I dared a friend of mine to do something inappropriate to a classmate of ours. And he did it and didn’t tell the principal that I dared him to do it and it was my idea. So he got suspended. I went home. Fortunately, my parents tried their best to instill some good values in me So I felt this inner turmoil and I sat on my bed started bawling my eyes out My dad gets home from work walks past my bedroom does a double take Is everything okay? I Tell him the truth. He’s like get in the car. We drove back to school sat in my principal’s office. Mr. O’Neill told him the truth and he and he asked me a ton of reflective questions. And then he invited the young lady, Michaela, into the office to have a conversation with both of us. And he actually ended up giving me an in-school suspension and keeping it off of my official record. And I’ll never forget that moment. And if I think back at that experience, and I think if my dad had an adverse reaction, if the principal had an extremely adverse reaction, I may have never learned the full lesson, but I did because of the way they handled it, because of the way they approached it. And it sounds very similar to what you just explained. So I didn’t really know too much about restorative practice, but Mr. O’Neill did use it with me.

Lynne Beck
That is, it’s fantastic because again you encourage kids to be human, to make mistakes. But, and it’s not about making the mistake, it’s about what you do with it when you make it. Do you own it? Are you going to learn from it? Are you going to move forward from it? If you’ve harmed someone, getting rid of that, that gross feeling in your gut when you know, like, it just doesn’t feel good doing something because even when we make mistakes and we’re the person in the wrong we need to restore our dignity and our our sense of Being in good balance being okay with ourselves. You don’t want to drag that behind you right you want to let that go and and Next time think before you dare your friend to do whatever it is. You did right like it’s um yeah I mean it it’s it’s beyond that message of you didn’t follow the rules you you don’t deserve to be here you are not good enough get out someone else is going to go fix you and then you come back to us I’m I’m I’m not going to at all diminish but I certainly can’t even begin to express the significant impact of the residential school system, of schools not only in Canada but certainly in the Northwest Territories. Their legacy is very much alive and there are many people who are still suffering the residual effects from that. And that you are not good enough message is something that I personally believe we still struggle, everyone struggles with that, but I think that that’s something because of the deliberateness of that system to essentially annihilate a culture, multi, many, many cultures, because Indigenous culture is vast and it’s very… Each one has its uniquenesses and deserves to be acknowledged individually. In the land that we sit on, it’s the Dene people, but even within that, there are many different groups of people here, where Dene FTA, Chippewyan, Cree, like we have a lot of different groups all within our community.

Sam Demma
I told you on our last conversation about some of my experiences in Kenya and how leading with this lens of curiosity rather than difference or judgment with a group of people I haven’t been exposed to in the past or met and had conversations with led to some beautiful experiences. And I am so excited to be visiting the school in May with an open mind, open heart and lots to learn. And I just want to let you know, I’m so excited about that. And it’s a privilege and I look forward to meeting you and everyone in the community. When you think about people in education who had a big impact on you, it sounds like your school journey was challenging in some regards, but are there any people in your life growing up or even after school that have had a massive impact? And if so, what did they do for you that shifted that belief about being good enough or just your own self-esteem.

Lynne Beck
I mean, there were many. And actually, it’s funny because it’s hard not to reflect and not think of those that certainly helped and those that didn’t. So I think A, being acknowledged. Being acknowledged as a human, not being ignored. Having someone, I guess, want to or make you feel as though they want you to to be there and go above and beyond to say to it to say hello good morning what are you thinking to do and later on or how was that class or it’s it’s it’s little things sometimes or hey you didn’t seem quite like yourself the other day you all right you know I just those little acknowledgments that can just make such a difference. And then collectively, there’s a lot of talk about teacher collective efficacy and that whole notion that I may not be, because I certainly am not the person that everyone can relate to or that I am able to meet the needs of or find whatever that thing is that we need to help someone move further along the line to meet their goals. But when we do it as a collective, someone is able to do that. Maybe it’s little pieces that come together that’s able to do that. Because some kids will take a little bit more than others to believe it, and that’s based on the cards that they’ve been dealt. And if we can help them, even sometimes when those cards are really tough cards to hold, if we can help them play those cards in the best possible way and have them believe that moving forward, they’re gonna be okay and that they are good enough, it’s incredible what can happen.

Lynne Beck
And we’ve seen. I remember moments in my life where

Sam Demma
believing in myself was the last thing I believed in and somebody else’s belief in me made all the difference. And I think that educators’ most important contribution, or any staff member in a school building, is not, the curriculum’s important, but it’s giving a child belief in themselves that they carry forward with them for the rest of their lives. I think that is by far the most important thing we can do. And not even just in schools, but in life in general. And my grandfather always used to say, leave things better than you found it. And if you did that, you lived a beautiful life. And I think it’s the same with people. And I got goosebumps while you were talking and sharing. And I appreciate you spending some time just talking a little bit about your educational journey and restorative practice and some of your beliefs around connecting with students and the importance of acknowledging them. And letting them know that it’s okay to make a mistake because we’re all human and not that it’s necessary Yeah Necessary yeah, right no no kid. You know watch what I don’t know we all we all get so afraid of mistakes

Lynne Beck
Yeah, but the reality is every little kid Watch them learn to walk watch them learn to talk watch them learn to do anything And then all of a sudden we get to that certain age. I don’t know what age it is and then all of a sudden So if you hide it and you pretend you didn’t do it or you try to whatever you’re just gonna do it over and over again until you accept that There’s a different or a better way and then you then if that and if you don’t get that Then unfortunately many people that that start start living with that shame and that guilt and all of those reasons why they turn to other things, sometimes it’s substances, there’s all kinds of things that people turn to, to mask that not being good enough, not being enough, being shameful, like all of those feelings that stand in the way of them developing their gift. We all have a gift. That’s one thing that I love, absolutely fell in love with in the North, is that Indigenous belief that everyone is inherently born with a gift. And it’s the duty of everyone that surrounds that child, because every child is a gift. But to surround that child, to allow those gifts to come through, right? And it’s, no one gift is more important than another. It’s a beautiful way of life. It also gives lots of hope and optimism

Lynne Beck
when you think about your own existence

Sam Demma
from that perspective. And if you’re not using it yet, you know it’s there and you’re still in that search to discover it. And I appreciate you sharing that. Do you have any parting words for an educator who may be listening to this a little bit burnt out, a little bit discouraged? Maybe there’s some challenges in their school building right now and they’re like, ah, what do I do then?

Lynne Beck
Oh, well, number one, I’ll be totally honest. Yesterday, driving back with a colleague, this was not me. We all, like challenge, we’re all being really, really challenged right now in education.
And whether we talk about cutbacks, or we talk about the things that are happening globally or you know there are there are so many reasons to kind of allow yourself to go down into that we call it a rabbit hole up here right where you get sucked into that negativity and I again by far far far from perfect as I have made so many mistakes it’s not even funny, but I’m doing my best not to repeat them. And so when I find myself going down into that rabbit hole, I remind myself, okay, you find what you look for. So if I’m telling myself I’m going to come back today and I’m going to find that negative thing or that negative person or that whatever, I’ll find it. But it’s looking for those little sunflower moments. And even sometimes, even within the people or the situations that are challenging you the most. And that’s really hard to do when it’s 45 below and really dark and da-da-da. when you really, really, really suck, just finding that outlet, whether it is a person, whether it is your dog.

Lynne Beck
My great Dane hears a lot of my problems. She doesn’t try to give me the solution. She just listens, and I do believe that we all have those answers within ourselves. We just have to get it out. I don’t know if that means getting it.

Sam Demma
Maybe that’s why we have unconditional love for our dogs, because they don’t chime in when we don’t want to hear anything.

Lynne Beck
And they don’t judge you, nothing. They keep really good people.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Lynn, this is such a lovely conversation. If someone wants to reach out and ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Lynne Beck
Probably email or phone call, because I am like, social media and I are just not, I’m just not, I don’t know, is it because I’m in my 50s? Is it because I see some challenges with social media You know up here. We talk about how kids have to Especially our indigenous students have to walk in two worlds well now with the with this whole social media Fake world where where again that that reinforcement of I’m not good enough. I just I just have a hard time Diving into that and and yeah, I don’t know I mean I get that AI is coming and I get that we need to embrace it and I get that That AI has the potential for for everyone to find their voice regardless of their level of education and it’s something that we need to To to to face head-on and to help students learn, but yeah, but in terms of reaching out best way Social social media no, but phone call or email, yes.

Sam Demma
I think that social media has attempted to make us more connected, but the result has been that we’re less connected and more glued to our phones. Email and phone call is my preferred way of communication too, so you don’t have to explain yourself at all. I will make sure that we just put your email in the show notes in case someone wants to reach out and ask a question. And until I see you in May, thank you so much, keep up the great work, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Lynne Beck

March 13, 2025 by Sam Demma Education Mental Health Principals Student Success 0

Russ Sommerfeldt – Principal at the Magrath Junior/Senior High School

About Russ Sommerfeldt

Russ Sommerfeldt is a dedicated educational leader with over a decade of experience in K-12 education. He is currently the principal of Magrath Junior/Senior High School, a role he has held for 3.5 years, where he oversees a student population of 430 students from grades 7-12. Russ has a strong background in educational leadership, having previously served as Vice Principal and Athletic Director at the same school.

In addition to his administrative roles, Russ has been actively involved in athletics. He served as the assistant coach for the Senior Varsity Zeniths basketball team, helping lead them to back-to-back zone championships in 2017 and 2018. His dedication to coaching and mentoring students instilled teamwork, discipline, and resilience in the athletes he worked with.

Throughout his career, Russ has demonstrated a passion for teaching and integrating technology into classrooms. He holds a Master of Education degree from Walden University, where he focused on the effective integration of technology in K-12 education. He also earned a Bachelor of Education/Bachelor of Management from the University of Lethbridge.

Russ has taught a variety of subjects, including social studies, science, and robotics. His interest in emerging technologies and their potential to enhance learning drives his approach to education. As a principal, Russ is committed to fostering a positive learning environment, supporting student success, and helping his staff grow as educators. He is also a devoted family man, finding joy in outdoor adventures with his wife and five children.

Connect with Russ Sommerfeldt: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Magrath Junior/Senior High School

Walden University

University of Lethbridge

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Russ Sommerfeld. Russ is the principal of McGrath High School. We met a few months ago. I was telling him about a marathon that I was going to be running in October, and we have since ran the marathon.

Sam Demma
I’m still alive. The legs are still moving. He gave me some great advice because he’s run a few of them with his brother, from what I remember from our previous conversation. He’s passionate about education, passionate about athletics.

Sam Demma
Russ, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show here today.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Hey Sam, I really appreciate it, it’s an honor.

Sam Demma
Tell us a little bit about how you got involved in education.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, so I actually, my father was an educator, so I followed in his footsteps. He started out as just an ordinary classroom teacher. He went on to become a guidance counselor. And then from there, worked his way into administration as a vice principal, and then eventually

Russ Sommerfeldt
as he ended his career as a superintendent. And so I’ve always looked up to my father. He’s been a role model in my life and he definitely inspired me to go into this field of work and showed me how rewarding it can be to help kids and to help them succeed.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And one of the greatest things he ever taught me was the greatest gift that you can give a kid is confidence and building their confidence. And so I’ve tried to keep that as a motto and remember that throughout my career thus far. Because I think it is key, the world in so many ways tries to pull people down and diminish who they are and what they can do. And we play an important role as educators to help kids believe in themselves and inspire them to think that, you know what, despite all that noise out there in the world, they really can do great things.

Sam Demma
My teacher, Mr. Loudfoot, gave me belief in myself and I still think it’s one of the greatest gifts he ever gave me as a student in this classroom. Now I also was given that gift from my parents, but I more so expected my parents to give it to me and when the teacher was just as certain that I should believe in myself as my own parents were it just, it took my belief in myself to a whole another level because I expected it from them,

Sam Demma
but didn’t really expect it from him. So I couldn’t agree more as a young person who’s closely removed from school and can still reflect on that experience pretty clearly. I think you’re so right. Did your dad also run marathons or are you and your brother the two athletic beasts in the family?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, you know, my dad isn’t necessarily a runner. My brother was the one that got into it and then he inspired me. It was actually just coming off of COVID, tail end of COVID. I happen to be visiting him. He lives down in Arizona and he said, you know what, I’m running this marathon, why don’t you start training? You got time, we’ve got six months till this thing happens. And so he says, there’s this app you can download and we can communicate, you know, you’re in Alberta, Canada, I’m in Phoenix, Arizona, and we can train together. And so I thought, oh, that does not sound like fun at all. But there was something about that conversation that day that kept coming back to me.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And so I did, I said, let’s do it. And the rest is history, I guess, in terms of me becoming a runner. Because I was not a distance runner in school growing up. Track and field, I would do the 100 meter and nothing longer. So I didn’t ever see myself as a distance runner, but now I would say that I am, and I really enjoy it.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Especially with a leadership position at the school, and I think all leaders could say the same thing. There’s a lot of things that happen in a day. There’s a lot of stresses and a lot of things on your mind and it’s a great outlet to let go of some of those things and to really take care of yourself for your own wellness.

Sam Demma
When you think about your journey through education, sounds like you were inspired by your dad and loved the idea of making a positive contribution in the lives of young kids. What was your first role? And take us through that journey that brought you to McGrath today.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, so it’s funny enough, but when I went through university, my last teaching internship before I became a full-fledged teacher was actually at McGrath High School. Oh, no way.

Russ Sommerfeldt
I just had an awesome experience. I loved the school so much. And so basically, after I graduated, they didn’t have a position right at that very moment, but I went and taught at the high school I attended when I was in high school for a semester, and I enjoyed every minute of that, but the teacher that I was filling in for was coming back. And then later on, six months later, four months later, they had an opening at McGrath and I was like, you gotta be kidding me, this is awesome. Like I can go back to the place that I love. And so I started out teaching social studies, science, and I started out as a classroom teacher here. Loved every minute of it. Got involved with athletics through coaching, predominantly coached some basketball. Started off at the grade eight level in junior high. Just tried to figure out where can I help out because a school does not run without a lot of volunteer hours from teachers and community members. And so I got to know a lot of people through that process. It’s also interesting how you get to know kids outside of the classroom too.

Russ Sommerfeldt
When you go on maybe a trip with them or at a practice, that influence that you can have have goes much deeper when you see them, and when they see you in a different light as well, not just someone talking at the front of a classroom or trying to teach them something, but the relationship that’s forged is way deeper when you can work with them in a few different ways. And so yeah, I mean, I fell in love with McGrath and then eventually some things opened up in terms of people retire and so on and so forth. And there was other opportunities that presented themselves as well at the school.

Sam Demma
When you think about folks who have helped you in your professional development as an educator, I mean, it does again sound like your dad played a really big role, but is there anyone else that’s top of mind that you think this person really changed the way I thought about certain things?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, there’s lots of people. And I feel like we live in a great… I feel like I live in a great area of Alberta where there’s a lot of really good educators. And so just the people that I would brush shoulders with in my…we used to call them a professional learning community. And we would meet every quarter or so, and just rubbing elbows with those teachers who were veteran teachers that would show me, hey, have you ever tried this? Or what about this? And those people really shaped the way I thought. On a professional level, like some of the books that I’ve read, I would say Todd Whitaker, his work is incredible, What Great Teachers Do Differently. His work really resonates with me a lot. And he actually came to our school division to start the year off this year, so we heard him speak to us in person, which was great. So I think his work’s been instrumental in kind of my thought process and some of the things that I’ve implemented in my own practices. Throughout my master’s I read a few books by a guy named Will Richardson who he was he’s a very innovative thinker. He talks a lot about how the traditional model of school is broken and how we need to change it and so that having that in my mind has has made me take some risks and try new things and try to figure out how we can better prepare these kids for the future because essentially the school system has been the same since the industrial era, right? It’s almost like the factory model of we’re mass producing kids, you know, and it doesn’t necessarily work.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And so we have to be creative in our thinking and in the way we do things in education now.

Sam Demma
When you think of students within the schools you’ve served, is there any that come to mind that were really struggling and over a period of time made some significant improvements in their own self-confidence? And if it’s a serious story, you could definitely change their name. The reason I bring it up is because a lot of educators don’t get physically thanked by the students themselves because maybe they don’t have the confidence to even walk up to the teacher and tell them how big of a difference they’ve made in their confidence, or they realize it 10 years after they graduate and have no way of getting back in touch with that individual. And so there’s an educator definitely listening to this right now who may be doubting the impact they’re creating and hearing about a story of how education or a teacher or even yourself had impacted a student might remind them what’s possible.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, and I probably don’t have any monumental stories right off the top of my head, but I’m reminded of one even this year. I had a student come into my office, has since graduated, and this particular student didn’t really like to attend school all that much. Attitude-wise, they were kind of, eh, I don’t know if school is important. But when they came back to my office this year, at the start of the school year, as a 23 or 24-year-old person that’s in university, they had a huge smile on their face, a whole bunch of energy around what they were doing. And they were currently in university, and they thanked me. And I was like, well, I don’t remember doing anything out of the ordinary other than being here every day. But I think the impact that we have on kids is way more than we know.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Even if it’s nothing specific that we did, it’s just believing in them each and every day and never giving up on them. And so, yeah, that comes to mind as one. But there’s a lot of kids out there, too, that, you know, some, they don’t have the support at home necessarily. And so they come, they walk through the doors here at school and the adults here are really the only champion that they have or so that they feel. And I’m sure that their parents are rooting for them as much as they can, but whatever, for whatever reason, the relationship isn’t quite what they would like it to be. And so we play a huge role that way too, just to, you know, listen to kids, be there for them and keep cheerleading.

Sam Demma
I think it’s so important too. There’s some situations where kids are coming to school looking specifically for learning and connections with other kids. And there’s other kids who are coming to school looking for a safe space and looking for food to eat and looking for a totally different set of needs than what other young people might be looking for. And it’s important to recognize that every kid is carrying a different backpack, that they all have different, they all have those different challenges.

Sam Demma
I think that education is one of the most important ways to shape the future, and you’re doing amazing work, and everyone at McGrath is as well, but it comes with its own set of challenges also. What do you think some of the challenges are in education these days?

Sam Demma
Well, I think I’ve noticed that student engagement is a really tough thing.

Russ Sommerfeldt
You know, kids, when they go home, they can learn what they want to learn instantaneously on YouTube or on TikTok. And it is so engaging that when they come to school and maybe the method or the model of that learning is different, it’s hard for them to really engage with what it is. And so I think just helping kids understand the value of what they’re learning and trying to make it applicable to their real life, because honestly, as a part, like with the work that Will Richardson did that I referenced a little bit earlier, a lot of people just learn on demand now. It’s not that they feel like they have to read a whole textbook to learn. No, they can, you can get specific and really good information on specific things that you’re interested in. So I think just helping kids see the importance of what we do here every day. And even when it’s not so engaging or interesting, I think the bigger lesson is learning how to stick to something, even when it’s really hard. Similar to what probably you learned and what I learned through this process of training for a marathon. There’s days when you think, man, this is tough, this is hard, why am I doing this?

Russ Sommerfeldt
And as you stick to that process, the end result is beautiful. And I think a lot of times kids won’t see that until after they’re gone. And that’s why we don’t always see the impact that we have as educators.

Sam Demma
And there’s also opportunities. Like there’s definitely challenges and I think being aware of them is important so we can think about ways to shift certain things, which it sounds like you are, which is amazing. What do you think some of the opportunities are each day in the school system right now? Oh, there’s so many.

Russ Sommerfeldt
I think that a school is kind of a mini society, so to speak, or a mini community. And so, you know, we have a really excellent extracurricular program, athletics program, and on any given night almost at our school, because we’re a seven through 12, we have 10 athletic teams that are playing, whether they’re playing here or elsewhere. But here in the school specifically, there’s a lot of opportunities for kids to get involved and to learn real life skills. So some of them, I know we have an entrepreneur class where kids are making yogurt, frozen yogurt for the game.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And then we sell them at the game to help support these programs that we offer. So they’re actually learning that skill. They could also come work in the concession where they’re taking people’s orders, communicating with them that way, giving that information to the people in prep and getting food out the door so that people can watch the game. We also try to make it a kind of a big production.

Russ Sommerfeldt
So I got kids that are working with our streaming and they’re learning the tech side of things. They’re learning how to do instant replays of a whole broadcast thing and that type of thing. from the behind the scenes stuff of people getting, you know, when we run a tournament, they’re building these, we call them either swag bags or a little care package for each of the players that come. So it’s pretty cool to see all the goings-ons in the building, and that’s just one example. Like, we have the same thing with drama and band and fine arts, where kids can get involved and do a lot of good that’s not academic necessarily, but as a hidden curriculum, it’s very valuable.

Sam Demma
When you think of your community, your mini society of this school, is there anything that you think is very unique or that your school does that may be very unique from other schools? And maybe you don’t even think it’s unique, but for a school in a different province, it could totally be something they’ve never tried or done before.

Sam Demma
Does anything come to mind that you think would be worth sharing?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, you bet. So we’re unique in the sense that we have kindergarten through grade 12 basically under the same roof. Wow. The elementary school, so K to six, is in its own part of the building.

Russ Sommerfeldt
It has its own administration, it’s its own school, so it’s run separately. And then over in my end, we have seven through 12. But from the moment these kids enter kindergarten, because of the proximity and because we’re such a small community and people know each other so well, they feel a part of the high school. They feel a part of this mini society right from the get go. Specifically with the extracurricular activities because the kindergarten kids, the grade one kids, they get read to by the senior varsity basketball players on occasion. They’re invited to our pep rallies. So they learn the cheers, they’re wearing their blue and gold, they’re decked out. We’ve even had alumni make trading cards of the kids and these little kids will be getting autographs of these players after the game. So it’s unique in a sense that high school sports is much bigger in a really small town than maybe even some of the larger centers because everybody in the whole community is behind it. And it’s really cool. At any one of our games, there may be a thousand people at these games.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And I’ve been to other high schools across the province and even in other provinces, and the crowds just aren’t that big. You’ll get the parents and maybe some family members, but people that aren’t even related to a single player on the court, they’re here because it’s the main event. There’s nothing else going on in the town, so they come, they support. And so in that sense, I think we’re unique, that the school community is basically the hub of the entire town.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And we do a lot of things here at school that spill over into other aspects of the community, which is really cool.

Sam Demma
More rural schools, more rural schools. That’s cool. I love that. Did you grow up in the same area as the school? Or are you from elsewhere?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, so I grew up in Carsten, which is about 30 minutes southwest of here, very similar culture, where small town and community involvement’s key. And so, yeah, it feels like home, even though it’s half hour away, right? So it’s very similar.

Sam Demma
A lot of other schools struggle to engage their parent communities. It sounds like the parents of these kids show up for things. Aside from the fact that there may be nothing else going on, do you think there’s other things that contribute to people in the community getting really involved in their kids’ school activities?

Russ Sommerfeldt
You know, I think a big part of it is building that relationship with parents and just asking them. I think we forget sometimes that people are willing if they are clear on what it is that is needed. And so figuring out a system and just turning it over sometimes to the parents. And you got to be a little bit careful, but with some planning and with some preparation, they can do a lot better job than I ever could. So I’m the type of leader who wants to engage and bring in as many other people as possible because me, myself could do it one way, but there’s a lot of other people that have lots of great ideas, probably much better than mine. And so I like to bring all those ideas to the table to make it the best possible experience for kids.

Sam Demma
And we only have two hands too, right? So every person brings two more and a brain. So you put it all together, you can move mountains and do some cool stuff. This has been a lovely conversation, the time’s flown by. I just wanna say thank you so much for investing the time into the show to talk a little bit about your educational journey and some of your beliefs around education. If there’s an educator listening to this and wants to reach out to you or get your training plan for running their first marathon, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, definitely send me an email. Russ.Sommerfeld at westwind.ab.ca. I’m sure you can link that into the notes. I won’t give my cell phone number out over a podcast, but my email for sure, or our school website, mcgrathhigh.ca, and they can find me there as well. Happy to talk to anybody who’s interested.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Russ, thank you so much for taking the time. Keep running, keep up the great work, and we’ll talk to you soon. and we’ll talk to you soon. Hey, thanks a bunch.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Russ Sommerfeldt

March 6, 2025 by Sam Demma Athletic Director Education Principals School Administration Student Leadership Student Success 0

Andrea Michelutti – Principal at Laurelwood Public School

About Andrea Michelutti

Andrea Michelutti is an experienced administrator with the Waterloo Region District School Board, where she has served communities since 2008. Over the years, she has worked in a variety of schools, gaining extensive experience and insight into the diverse needs of students, staff, and school communities. Andrea believes her role as an administrator is to “Uplift, Uphold, and Support” every person she serves. Guided by this philosophy, she fosters an inclusive and empowering environment where individuals are encouraged to thrive. Andrea is deeply committed to leveraging the strengths of her staff, enabling them to be their best selves while delivering excellence in education and care. With a passion for student success, Andrea inspires young people to reach and exceed their hopes, dreams, and goals. Her dedication to nurturing growth, resilience, and achievement has made her a respected leader and a source of inspiration for students, colleagues, and the broader school community alike.

Connect with Andrea Michelutti: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Waterloo Region District School Board
Laurelwood Public School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today I am very excited. We have a special guest who is full of full of energy, Andrea McAloody from Laurelwood in Waterloo. I’m so excited to have you on the show to talk about all the amazing things going on at the school. Thank you so much for for coming on.

Andrea Michelutti
I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Sam.

Andrea Michelutti
I appreciate you coming to our school last year, and our students still talk about you. They talk about your red backpack. They talk about always being positive and thinking about what we can do better. So, thank you for this opportunity.

Sam Demma
Since I’ve been at the school, I hear there’s a 10-classroom addition that’s been built and that students are taking the initiative to make it a very hospitable experience, a new, beautiful space where every student feels welcome. Tell us a little bit about what’s going on in the school right now.

Andrea Michelutti
So we are very fortunate. We received ministry funding for a 10 classroom addition because our population keeps increasing. We’re over 700 students. And when it opened this year, we opened to fanfare. The architects really worked hard

Andrea Michelutti
so we have the consistent building, the consistent paint colors, the consistent floor. But what we noticed was that our students took a lot of pride in our building. Our students really focused on what’s on the walls, how are they seen, and what are those really great things that they can do.

Andrea Michelutti
They talked about having, you know, a class meeting and how the third environment is what is needed to make sure they feel successful.

Sam Demma
In addition to the addition on the school, tell me a little bit more about how this year has been so far.

Andrea Michelutti
This year has been absolutely incredible. We started this year with more students than we’ve ever expected, and our students have really been working on this idea of hospitality. It came from my conversations with some students in grade eight, and we focused on those opportunities

Andrea Michelutti
of what they can do every day to make others feel welcomed and accepted. So I always say to my students there’s three things that I need to do. I need to support all of our students. I need to uplift all of our students. And I need to uphold or uphold the high expectations, support all of our students, and uplift. So when we talk about uplifting, we’re talking about like greeting our students,

Andrea Michelutti
making a welcome environment. And I had a group of grade eight students come and say, we need to make sure all of our new students to Laurelwood also feel the same way.

Sam Demma
And was this a student-driven idea? Like they approached you and said, hey, we have to do this, or how did it all come about?

Andrea Michelutti
So when I first came to the school, I went to visit every class and I talked about uplift, uphold, support. And when I first arrived, there’d be days where I’d walk the halls. I was new, where students wouldn’t say hello to me. And I said, I expect you to say good morning to say hello. And at first I thought, oh, this is going to be a little silly. Nobody’s going to buy in. And they bought in. And so we’ve been doing that for about a year and a half. And this September,

Andrea Michelutti
our students came to me, a group of boys came and said, we need to make sure our new grade sevens and our new students also understand the importance of greeting each other. I also had some form where students come back and say they’re at new schools now and they don’t feel the same way. And they’ve also approached their teachers and principals to say, how come you don’t greet us at the door? What can you do different? So it’s that slow momentum. But listening to student voice, especially our grade eight students,

Andrea Michelutti
wanting that environment shows that we’re on the right track.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you’ve built quite the culture and community at the school. How do you build this culture of belonging in a school building?

Andrea Michelutti
That’s one of those tricky pieces. So a few schools back, we really focused on that idea of how do all students feel welcome? And so what we did at one of my staff meetings was I had all my teachers go around and take pictures of what the environment looked like

Andrea Michelutti
and how it created a welcoming environment. And so we put a slide show together, I thought it was great. But then we went to the next level and we had all of our students go around and do the same activity to see the adults in the building

Andrea Michelutti
seeing the same things the students are seeing in the building. And we realized there was some things that were the same, but the students really focused on relationships with teachers. They wanted to take pictures of adults

Andrea Michelutti
that they felt that they were safe with and that they can care that that felt cared about And that was most interesting So knowing that I did stumble with my few decisions before because we weren’t too sure where we were going When I came to the school, I really focused on that student voice and those relationships Why I think we’ve been very successful is because we’re talking openly about it and I’ll take student feedback, even the feedback that’s really hard, I listen to them and see what I can do to improve.

Sam Demma
One of the other programs I’ve heard the school has put a major focus on improving is with special education and the mental health of students. Can you tell me a little bit about that this year also?

Andrea Michelutti
So, being a former special education teacher and a former student where I was in a special education program. I know that many of our students always felt a little awkward because learning was hard for them. They had to learn differently. So with my special education team,

Andrea Michelutti
we really talked about what we can do differently to really target our students in kindergarten, grade one, and grade two to fill in those gaps. And we noticed that our students were feeling more successful.

Andrea Michelutti
We focused on their assets and how can they use their assets to improve their areas where they needed a little more improvement. So I’m thinking about a student in the primary grades. Reading is really difficult for her. And what we really focused on was her ability

Andrea Michelutti
to be an amazing dancer and amazing presenter. So we talked about those really strong strengths, and then we moved it into her reading, and she’s already made huge improvements in reading where now she comes to school every day. So by focusing on making students feel good

Andrea Michelutti
about themselves, really connecting on their strengths, one of the side effects, or one of the outcomes, is better attendance at school. We also changed our educational assisted model from being somebody who just jumps in to support kids, to being joy builders.

Andrea Michelutti
So when EAs come in, they are the ones who are there to bring joy to the classroom. So before, some kids would be like, oh, there’s an EA in the classroom. I hope they don’t take me to work with them. We now, our kids all want to work with the EAs because, again, they’re focusing on students’ strengths. And how can we just get that 1% better every day?

Sam Demma
It strikes me that you’re someone who’s been so passionate about education and serving young people and creating welcoming communities. Did you know when you were a student growing up that you wanted to work in education or what did this pathway look like for you?

Andrea Michelutti
When I was younger, I always wanted to be a teacher, but I also wanted to work in business and I wanted to have those, you know, two jobs combined and I never knew what I wanted to do. In high school and in university, I had a chance to work with two Ontario Hockey League teams. I worked with the Sudbury Wolves and the Peterborough Peets. And those were those opportunities that taught me that skills of hospitality, relationships and team building.

Andrea Michelutti
And then I was able to tie that into my passion for always being a teacher. When I became an administrator, it kind of fell in my lap. I was very new to education. I believe I was about seven years in, and unfortunately my vice, the vice principal at the school got sick,

Andrea Michelutti
and at that time there wasn’t many people interested in going into leadership. So my principal tapped me on the shoulder and said, would you be interested in doing this role for about two weeks? That’s it, two weeks.

Andrea Michelutti
Now I’m at 17 years, which is incredible.

Sam Demma
What has been foundational in your professional development as you’ve worked in schools for over 20 years? Have you had mentors or resources that have been helpful?

Sam Demma
And if so, who are those people

Sam Demma
and what did they do for you and what are some of those resources?

Andrea Michelutti
So every time, like once I started in education, I really looked to different mentors. One of my biggest mentors was Charlie Smith. He was my first principal in Markham. And he was an athlete. He was always in the school,

Andrea Michelutti
and what I learned from him was being visible in the building and building those really strong connections at the same time as having that academic excellence. Under his leadership at his school, our EQAO scores for grade three were very, very low. We were at the bottom of the school board, and within three years, we were fourth in the school board.

Andrea Michelutti
And what I learned from him was good teaching, good relationships, resulted in great outcomes. Another one of my great mentors was a principal named Kristen Phillips, and she really taught everyone the importance of being kind, being present, but really pushing student achievement. It was a school where our academic scores were very low. And again, under her leadership,

Andrea Michelutti
we really targeted small group instruction, finding student strengths and moving on. But my biggest mentor ever was the general manager of the Peterborough Peaks from 95 to 99. He was there much before me and much longer after me, but his name was Jeff Tuey. And I just saw how he always treated everybody with kindness

Andrea Michelutti
and respect. It didn’t matter if you were, you know, just a fan coming to the game or if you were a general manager from an NHL team. The way he treated people was with kindness, knew their names, knew things about them, knew their family, knew their passions, and just sitting there, being in my early 20s, seeing that interaction, I’ve tried to really carry that on.

Sam Demma
Do these individuals know the contribution they’ve made to your professional development and personal life? I think they do.

Andrea Michelutti
I’m still in contact with Jeff Tuey. It was funny, because last year, he was up in Sudbury at a hockey game. I no longer live in Sudbury, and he ran into my family. And we exchanged pictures and our cell phone numbers, and I always reach out to him.

Andrea Michelutti
He’s one of those people where I just thought he is able to make things work. And so that’s been really great connecting. And Charlie Smith and Kristen Phillips, we do every once in a while keep in contact over Facebook. They’re both long retired.

Andrea Michelutti
Those are the people who really made my life in a different trajectory.

Sam Demma
With education and any heart-centered vocation, you’re always pouring into others, your staff members, the students in the building, the families you serve, that sometimes we forget to pour into ourselves. When you’re not in the school building or thinking about work, which is probably never.

Sam Demma
But when you have your time to pour into your own cup, how do you do that? What are some of the activities that fill you back up so you can be your whole self at work?

Andrea Michelutti
I’m really fortunate. I have a great family who’s always around me. And whenever I want to do something silly or crazy, they always embrace it. And it could be something like, you know, we wake up early in the morning.

Sam Demma
It’s important to do.

Andrea Michelutti
But it’s those little small connections with friends, with family, and sometimes in our jobs it’s really busy, but I always make sure that I carve out time for family every day.

Sam Demma
That’s so important. Do you come from a family of educators?

Sam Demma
My family went to university.

Andrea Michelutti
So my family had businesses up in Sudbury and I learned the the value of hard work and how when things are going well, they’re going really well. But during economic slowdowns things are really tough. And so what my parents always taught me was to be very appreciative of what you had and make sure that people always feel valued and welcomed in your life.

Sam Demma
Oh, amazing. You said that you’ve been an administrator for I believe now 17 years? That’s correct. What would you say is the big difference between working in the classroom

Sam Demma
and working as an administrator?

Andrea Michelutti
The biggest difference is the impact you make. So in the classroom you work with 20 to 30 students every day, but in a school I’m serving 700 students and supporting 70 staff members and families. So just seeing how the growth from students from grade 1 to grade to grade 8 and seeing the the gain staff makes is very different from being in the classroom to being in a leadership role.

Andrea Michelutti
I do have a lot of opportunities to teach. So if I’m having a tough day, sometimes I’ll go to a classroom and be like, give me a small group, or let me take a group of students. And so this year, my staff has been really working on how to improve their literacy skills, their math skills, and special education. We’re doing everything this year.

Andrea Michelutti
And so when we do have guest speakers, I’ll often say, I’ll take all the students to the library, do a little teaching so the students can work together. But the biggest impact is who we’re serving.

Sam Demma
If you were to think back to your first year

Sam Demma
as an administrator, I’m sure there’s still unique challenges that you’re solving now, but that first year must have been, in some ways, a learning experience. What are some of the advice you would give based on your own past experiences to

Sam Demma
other teachers who might be becoming administrators as they’re listening to this podcast. The one there’s two

Andrea Michelutti
pieces of advice. One is always be kind to others and two is always be kind to yourself. So my first year, I was very aware of all the mistakes I was making and then when I talk to those teachers or those principals, they never notice my mistakes. So I’ve really adopted the model of, if I have a really tough day and I’ve made a bad decision,

Andrea Michelutti
I’ll say, wow, that principal made a really bad decision, but Andrew McAloody is still a really good person. And so I think it’s really focusing on being, forgive yourself when you make those difficult decisions. And I always say, there was never a bad decision, it might just have been bad communication,

Andrea Michelutti
and what can you do differently?

Sam Demma
We’re getting very close to the new year. And when folks listen to this, it might be January or into February. What are you excited about moving into 2025? What I’m most excited about is seeing where our students grow. There are some students that have

Andrea Michelutti
made some significant gains in their literacy and math skills. And they’re just at the point of it’s all coming together, so they’re going to soar. I’m also really excited about thinking about how we can engage our families in different ways. I’m very hopeful for 2025, and I know it’s going to be a great year. I always say this year is the best year, but it turns out next year is the best year, and

Andrea Michelutti
the next year is the best year. And so that’s the great part about being in education is every year it keeps getting better and better. So one of my hopes for 2025 is just to make sure everybody feels a sense of belonging, a sense of happiness, and a sense of welcoming.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Andrea, thank you so much for taking time out of the busy schedule to share some of your ideas on the podcast. I appreciate it. I wish you nothing but the most amount of success and happiness into the new year

Sam Demma
with the school, both professionally and in your personal life, and I hope to stay connected. If somebody is listening to this and wants to share a note of gratitude or reach out, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Andrea Michelutti
Send me an email or reach out to me on X. It’s always important to have those connections. And just briefly, I had a student come back to me. I only worked with him for three months in 2016, and I said to him, I expect you to graduate. And he was a student who really doubted his abilities, but I saw something in him. And when he came back four years later, he just surprised me at the school with his

Andrea Michelutti
high school diploma, we’ve taken a picture, and it’s one of those moments I just will always cherish. Because he said, you believed in me, and I had to make sure I kept up to your high expectations. So I love when students come back, when families reach out, because it really makes those connections just that little stronger.

Sam Demma
I love that. Is the picture posted on your social media by any chance?

Andrea Michelutti
It is. I’ll send it to you. It’s one of those great things. And he actually did a video about our relationship. So that was one of those most important pieces, something I cherish.

Sam Demma
Oh, amazing. And what would your ex account profile be if someone did want to touch base?

Andrea Michelutti
It’s at Mickeludi A. So my last name followed by my first initial. So M-I-C-H-E-L-U-T-T-I-A.

Sam Demma
Andrea, thank you so much. This is a big pleasure.

Andrea Michelutti
Thank you so much, Sam, and keep doing the great work you’re doing. and keep doing the great work you’re doing. You’re changing the lives of many people.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Andrea Michelutti

January 30, 2025 by Sam Demma Education Educator Principals Student Success 0

Kristan McTernan – Vice Principal at the Toronto Catholic District School

About Kristan McTernan

Kristan McTernan is a Vice Principal with the Toronto Catholic District School. Prior to becoming a vice principal, she was a teacher for over a decade specializing in teaching English, Special Education and ESL. Highlights of her teaching career include leading the team that won a 2022 TCDSB Exemplary Practice Award for expanding the House System and establishing a mentorship program at Brebeuf College School. In the same year, she was awarded the Toronto Secondary Unit’s Status of Women Committee Exceptional Teacher Award for her efforts both inside and outside the classroom. Forming relationships with staff and students through various extracurricular activities, from coaching swimming, and moderating Student Council to organizing Grade 9 Orientation and Grade 12 Graduation make up some of the most memorable experiences of her teaching career. As a high school administrator, Kristan is passionate about supporting all students by thinking creatively about “outside the bell” solutions to address challenges to student success. She credits her willingness to think “outside the bell” with the fact that all her experiences in high schools thus far have been in specialized learning environments. Not only is she a Mary Ward Catholic Secondary School Centre for Self-Directed Learning alum, but she also taught at Brebeuf College, a single-gendered all-boys school, and is now a vice principal at Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts. Throughout her career, Kristan has developed a passion for equity in education, with a focus on BIPOC representation in leadership. She is currently a mentor and one of the committee members of the TCDSB’s Racialized Administrators Mentorship Program. The goal of the program is to provide information, guidance and mentorship to BIPOC educators who may be interested in becoming an administrator. At both the board and school level, she continues to share her experiences as a black woman, black educator and immigrant to Canada proudly raised in Scarborough to further the positive impact of the TCDSB’s robust Equity Plan on the lives of students and their families. Outside of school, Kristan is a proud mother of two boys aged 7 and 10. She raises her sons with her husband who is also a TCDSB administrator, which makes for colourful discussions at the dinner table. Formula 1 Racing rounds out the top three things Kristan is passionate about, just below her family and her school community.

Connect with Kristan McTernan: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Toronto Catholic District School
Mary Ward Catholic Secondary School Centre
Brebeuf College
Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we’re joined with a very special guest. Kristan Mcternan is a vice principal with the Toronto Catholic District School Board. She and I met less than a year ago, collaborating on an event. And I’m so honored to have her on the show today.

Sam Demma
Kristan, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Kristan McTernan
Yeah, so that’s pretty much me in a nutshell right there. I’m Vice Principal of the Toronto Catholic District School Board. I have the pleasure of being the Vice Principal of Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts. I have been a Vice Principal for about two years, going into my third year. Before that, I was a teacher at Braybuff College for 14 and a half glorious years. And so, yeah, now I come to Cardinal Carter as a vice principal and just embracing what this role brings.

Sam Demma
Did you know you wanted to work in education, or what did your own pathway look like as a student?

Kristan McTernan
Education, yeah, I knew because I think it was in my blood. The path really started with my parents. Both my parents are educators. My dad retired. My mom is still a special education teacher. But when we moved here from Trinidad when I was five, I really watched them fight to get back to the classroom. They needed to get recertified and get some things in order, and that took a while. While they were working and transitioning into being Canadian citizens with two young children, they were also studying and getting themselves certified. I saw that passion they had for teaching, and when they finally got back into the classroom, it really resonated with me.

In the meantime, I was that kid who would line up all my teddy bears, give them little handouts, and decorate a wall in my room as a bulletin board. I’d change it up every so often to reflect themes or different seasons because I really wanted to emulate my parents and their love for education. That carried me to high school, where I had great teachers in both elementary and high school. At Holy Spirit in Scarborough, I was a student from JK to grade eight, and then I went to Mary Ward, which gave me a unique perspective on education because it’s a self-directed learning center.

Kristan McTernan
And while I was doing that, I got involved in working with Toronto Parks and Recreation, now called Toronto Parks, Recreation, and Culture, in the camps. That sparked it for me. I knew I wanted to be a teacher as soon as I got there. Before, I felt it, but when I started working with kids through camps, working my way up from an assistant leader to an area coordinator managing a group of camps, I fell in love. So, when I went to university, I took a psychology course, focusing on education. I did a double major in English and Criminology and a minor in History. I thought for a hot second that maybe I wanted to do law.

Kristan McTernan
But a teacher told me, “You want to work with youth. Do you want to work with them after they’re in the system, or do you want to reach them before they enter the system?” I said, “No, I want to work with them before.” And that was it. I did Teachers College and all the good things that led to this point. So, yeah, I think it was in my blood, starting with my parents.

Sam Demma
Cardinal Carter has one of the best art programs and facilities in the board. Is there a connection to arts in your own life that inspired you to be at this school, or was it luck of the draw that you ended up here?

Kristan McTernan
Well, it’s luck of the draw. Even though I had a brief foray as a saxophonist in elementary and high school, I wouldn’t say I have a musical background or a background in the arts. That allows me to be the biggest fangirl of all the arts in our school. I’m loving the drama, music, dance, and visual arts. I’m loving all of it. I can just be an amazing fan for the students because I don’t come to it with my own background in the arts.

Sam Demma
I was blown away by the amount of student art on the walls and just the energy of the students. It was such a welcoming space. What are the values that you and your team and the staff try to instill in the students? What is the culture you’re striving to build? Because it’s very apparent that when you walk in, it has a really welcoming feeling.

Kristan McTernan
Oh, it’s amazing to know that it’s coming across to visitors in our school. We are very much working with artists, and as a staff, we’ve talked a lot about the unique struggles for students who are artists, who have this creative mindset. Instead of focusing on expectations and being creative, they already come with that. What we strive to do is help them have balance—to celebrate their successes, to understand that failure is only part of the journey, and to provide them with a counter perspective than what they come with.

Kristan McTernan
That’s what we do at our school—to build community among the different art areas and bring students together across the art areas to embrace the experience of being a student. Balance in life, mental health, and well-being are just as important as creativity and being the best you can be. Our students tend to come with that, and we just provide the other perspectives to help them live a really balanced life and be their own best selves.

Sam Demma
When it comes to building connections or relationships with students, building rapport, how do you go about doing that as an adult?

Kristan McTernan
Once, when I was a teacher, someone came to me and said, “You have this way of joking around, but you’re not messing around.” I’ve tried to embody that. I want students to see me as a person, someone who cares about them first and foremost. Yes, there are things I need to enforce, but beyond all that, I care about their growth. I’m willing to break down my own walls, share my own experiences, and even share my own mistakes with them.

Kristan McTernan
I tell them, “I’ve been a student longer than I’ve been a teacher or an educator. I’m telling you this because I want the best for you.” When students see that, it’s the easiest way to build that relationship because they know I’m genuine. They’re willing to share their successes and fears, struggles and triumphs. That’s been the key to building those relationships as a teacher and now as a vice principal.

Sam Demma
That phrase, “I’m joking around, but I’m not messing around”—that’s gold right there.

Kristan McTernan
Well, I have to give credit to the person who said it first. His name’s Dave. Early in my career, he said that, and I ran with it.

Sam Demma
When you think about interactions you have with young people that have left them better than you found them, do any stories of impact come to mind? I ask because a lot of educators got into this field to make a difference, but sometimes they don’t hear about their impact until years later when a student bumps into them at the grocery store and says, “Miss, you changed my life.”

Kristan McTernan
I see it every day. At any given moment, I have students who need me. Even their growth from when I got to the school to now has been amazing. For example, attendance is a big piece. When a student says, “Miss, I didn’t skip today,” that’s a badge of honor. And I’m like, “Yes, amazing!” Celebrating those accomplishments with them is huge.

Kristan McTernan
As a teacher, I’ve had impactful moments too. I had a student who sent me pictures of his newborn son. When students come back and want to interact with you in their adult life, you know you’ve done something right. Those are the moments I carry with me—every time a student comes back to visit and tells me what’s happening in their in their lives is amazing.

Sam Demma
Who have been some of the impactful mentors in your own life or people that support you as a vice principal, as a teacher, that without them, you know, you think, gosh, life or the way I approach things would have been very different.

Kristan McTernan
I have, I’m like going, thinking about my journey of getting to education, I can name them as we go from stage to stage. As I said, my parents, first and foremost, and see, like, I would say, my mom is one of the most incredible educators I’ve ever met. I’ve seen kids that have been written off and my mom’s like, in her Trinidadian accent, no, we’re gonna work with this kid today, like that is happening.

That persistent attitude, that determination that no kid is going to be left behind, and every kid is worthy of growth and accomplishment, I get from her. When I was in elementary school, I had two amazing teachers, Ms. Bailey and Ms. Kudo, who showed me what it was for a teacher to care about a kid outside of the classroom.

When my parents dropped me off early in the morning, and it was really cold—we’re from Trinidad, I wasn’t used to this—Ms. Bailey took me to her class and allowed me to stay there. She would help me with my work. She had high standards, but she was willing to help me reach them and to care about me and my family.

She actually was a person I turned to when I was becoming a teacher to help me with the interview process and all that. She’s never given up on me. At Mary Ward, we have something called a teacher advisor. They are a teacher who actually doesn’t teach you—or they may teach you, but they don’t have to—that sees you every single day of your high school career. They see you in the morning, at lunch, and in the afternoon, tracking your progress and talking with your parents.

For me, it was Miss Earl. She was an amazing example of how a teacher goes beyond curriculum. A teacher cares about kids. She cared about me and kept me on the straight and narrow. My mom did it at home, and I knew Miss Earl would do it at school.

I also had a teacher named Mr. Wetzel who taught me that teaching is about helping students see the curriculum and engage in it beyond just the right answer. It was about what I could prove was the right answer, and that’s why I got into English.

Right now, I have a current mentor, my principal, Linton Soares. Yes, you met him when you came over. He’s a great mentor. He’s helping me take those values I had as a teacher, align them with his values, and bring that forward into this role. He helps me stay true to why I got into this in the first place, so it doesn’t get lost in the everyday tasks of running a school.

Sam Demma
It’s awesome that you can name these people one by one based on the stages of your life. I’m fortunate that I’ve had so many mentors myself, and I think about it all the time, like, thank God for putting these people in my life because they all seem to come at the perfect times when I needed them most.

We met in the most weird, coincidental ways. And I just know that if I didn’t have those people, my own values and the way I show up and the decisions I made would have likely been very different. So it’s nice to pay homage to some of those people. And if they listen to this, y’all just know that Kristan and I appreciate you big time.

Sam Demma
The start of the school year is no joke for a lot of educators because they just finished this two-month break. They’re excited, but sometimes they jump in, and it’s like, whoa, super overwhelming—there’s so much going on. How do you make that transition every year from summertime to another school year?

Is there any rituals that you have? Or like, you know, as a soccer player, I would always have these pregame routines, and I feel like the last week of August is pregame. What does your pregame look like?

Kristan McTernan
My pregame looks like first hanging on to every minute of the summer that I can before I have to let go. Just savoring every single minute of it so that I know when it’s time to get back into it, I’m ready. I think of it as Happy New Year.

Everybody celebrates January 1st, but Happy New Year for educators is the Tuesday after Labor Day. That comes with resolutions: self-reflection, what do I want to do differently this year? What were my successes last year? What do I need to do differently? What do I need to put in place to make that happen?

Every year, I go into it with the goal of finishing the way I started, finishing with the energy and perspectives I had at the beginning. Whatever I put in place to revise my practices leads to an even more successful outcome.

The job can be very draining—we put so much of ourselves into it. So, I want to create balance and be effective. My resolutions are often about that. I know my weaknesses, like organization. Sometimes I have to fake it till I make it, and it usually involves a lot of Amazon purchases, like a new agenda book. I can’t take my old habits into the new year!

A few new wardrobe pieces also help me feel ready to tackle a new year. I want to make sure that by the end of the year, I’ve done everything I set out to accomplish and made the most of the time with my family.

Sam Demma
I think that’s such a key reminder to be present wherever you are. Jim Rohn, a speaker who’s been very influential for me, said, “When you work, work. When you play, play. Don’t be at the beach thinking about work, and don’t be at work thinking about the beach.”

You ruin both experiences that way. When you’re at the beach, be at the beach. When you’re at work, be at work. That’s the sentiment you just shared. It’s something I need to hear right now because I’m always living in the future or thinking about the past, forgetting about the moment we have—right now.

Kristan McTernan
Exactly. There are only a finite number of summer days in my life, but there are also only a finite number of days in my career. So, I’m going to maximize all of it for what it is.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today.

Kristan McTernan
Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast!

Sam Demma
I hope the academic year this year is phenomenal, and I look forward to crossing paths again soon.

Kristan McTernan
Thank you so much.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Kristan McTernan

December 31, 2024 by Sam Demma Administrative Support Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Student Success 0

Michelle Gauthier – Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board

About Michelle Gauthier

Michelle Gauthier is the Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board. She has been an educator for 30 years in a variety of roles. She began her teaching career as an ESL and Special Education teacher before completing a Master’s Degree in Counselling and beginning her work as a high school counsellor.
Her experience supporting students with complex needs led her into administration where she continues to advocate to bring wellness, equity and inclusion to the forefront. Michelle’s guiding principle remains that educators (administration, teachers, support staff – everyone in the building) must work to provide a safe, welcoming and inclusive environment where students feel loved and part of a community. Once students feel cared for and safe, they are better prepared to take risks, embrace challenges, learn, and thrive.

As Principal, not only does Michelle make wellbeing and community building a priority for students but she also recognizes the importance of these for staff. She works hard to ensure her staff feels supported and appreciated, providing an environment in which they feel inspired to bring their best to work each day. Michelle is grateful for the opportunity to work with staff and students to create a community where young people can grow into their best selves. She appreciates this privilege and recognizes the gift that she is given in her role as Principal.

Connect with Michelle Gauthier: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School

Ottawa Catholic School Board

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by Michelle Gauthier, the principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School. She is someone that I met, and I’m excited to have her back on the podcast, or have her on the podcast and see her again. Michelle, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Michelle Gauthier
All right.

Michelle Gauthier
Well, it’s good to see you again, Sam. I have to tell you, when you invited me to do this, I was really honored. When you came to Frank Ryan, I didn’t really know entirely what to expect, but your energy and the way you interacted with our students was so vibrant. And I just I feel really honored to be here today. So, yeah, I don’t I didn’t really know what to expect, but I’m really honored that you invited me.

Sam Demma
Well, the energy in your school was just as palpable for me. And there’s something special about the community you’ve cultivated with the staff and the students. What are some of the key values or characteristics you strive to embed within your school culture and community?

Michelle Gauthier
Well, Frank Ryan’s a pretty special place.

Michelle Gauthier
So we’re an intermediate school, but only grades seven and eight. And it’s the last one in our school board that’s a standalone intermediate school. So the students are here; they’re not mixed with elementary kids, they’re not mixed with high school kids—it’s just for them. So it’s a really cool opportunity for us to help them develop their leadership skills. And for me, it’s a pretty special place because I went here.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, the kids get a kick out of that when I tell them. I say, “Yeah, I went here as a student,” and then when I tell them what year I graduated, I think all their jaws drop. So I graduated in 1984 from here. And even some of their parents, I don’t think, were born by then. So it’s a special place—Frank Ryan has a great history. But, you know, I feel really privileged to be in this role as a principal because I can impart what’s most important to me in a school. And I have that ability to decide, “This is what I want to focus on. This is what I want our staff to focus on.”

So to answer your question, what’s most important to me is that kids want to come to school, that they feel happy—not just the students, but the staff. I was just talking with my vice principal this morning and just saying, you know, if we can make sure staff feel good and they’re happy, then that’s going to translate to the students in their classrooms. So a big part for me is a real focus on community and people feeling like this is a home, this is a place where they belong and are cared for.

Sam Demma
What do you think makes a young person want to show up to school?

Michelle Gauthier
For me, it’s that we know them, that they’re known. And that’s, again, some of our schools are getting so big that students can get lost. So it’s a real challenge. We have some high schools right now, grades 7 to 12, that are sitting at 2,500 students. So I feel pretty blessed here that we have, we just have just under 500 students.

For us to be able to stand at the door every morning and say, “Good morning, welcome back,” and be able to say their names, and that they feel known—it’s like a home for them, you know. And that’s what I want from the teachers as well is that they’re greeting the kids at the door, they take an interest, you remember, you know, if they told you something about, you know, going for grandpa’s dinner on the weekend, then on Monday maybe say, “How was dinner?” Just that they really feel like they’re, you know, acknowledged as people.

Sam Demma
You started in counseling and you have a degree in counseling. Did you know you were going to end up in administration in the school or like how did your own pathway unfold as you were growing up?

Michelle Gauthier
Wow, that’s a good question because I don’t think I was ever one of those people that was saying, “This is exactly what I want to do,” or “This is exactly where I want to be.” I started university in math, and then that wasn’t working. So I had—my mom was a math teacher. My dad was an actuary. So math was a big part of our home. And—but I always had private tutors all through school.

So when I went off to university, it was like, “Okay, maybe this isn’t my passion.” And it took me a bit to find it. But in hindsight, it was always there. And I think I’m very close to my dad, and I think it was always clear to him. But second year university, I was really struggling with what my concentration would be, and I finally—my dad said, “You know what, you need to get into education. You know, you were always the one, like the cousin who would take care of the little cousins or the one to babysit.”

And I was a lifeguard, and I taught swimming, and he saw it in me. I don’t know that I was, you know, mature enough to see it in myself. But he encouraged me, and I joined the education department, and I just flew from there. All of a sudden, I was, you know, I loved school, I loved learning, I loved that whole area that I was studying in, and I was lucky to get a job right away. And I just love working with kids.

The counseling has always been there. So I had a bit of a different degree. I went to McGill University in Quebec. Their education program is a bit different. It’s a four-year program. My degree was in teaching English as a second language. And when I came back to Ontario, I got a job as an ESL teacher right away, which was really curious. But the way it works in Ontario back then was you are like a resource teacher, like a special education teacher. So I was the ESL teacher; that’s kind of the realm that I was in.

And what that became was really that support, that advocate for students. So the advocate, you know, as a special education teacher, which I was as well. So I started as an ESL teacher advocating for my newcomer students. Then I moved into special education and advocating for, you know, students with special needs.

I did my master’s in counseling and went into guidance counseling. Did I think I was going to go into admin? No. But I think as I moved through guidance, I realized the role of an administrator—there’s a lot of counseling that happens. And the work that we do with parents and families, reassuring them, supporting them, helping them through some difficult times—I felt I was really well-positioned with my skills of supporting newcomers, supporting families, and students with special needs as a guidance counselor.

So now as an administrator, I really get to help those families and use a lot of my counseling skills. It was a big decision for me to leave counseling and go into administration because I loved what I did. I had an opportunity to fill in for a vice principal who was off for a bit. And during that little term, I realized, “Wow, I’m using—probably my counseling skills were one of my number one skills to use in administration, whether it’s family, students, or staff.”

All those skills were so transferable. So now I get to, in a sense, lead the school. I decide on the direction. And for me, knowing that what’s most important to me is a school where people feel welcome, I really feel privileged that I can steer that boat.

Sam Demma
Young people and humans, in general, are carrying so much in their backpacks these days when it comes to struggles or challenges or changes in the world. How do you counsel well? How do you provide counsel to somebody? Or if they’re going through a challenge, how do you be there for them from the perspective of a counselor?

Michelle Gauthier
Yeah. You really have to be a good listener. And again, it comes down to making a person feel heard and cared for. Often people, you know, you go to counseling and think, “Okay, this person’s going to give me the answer.” And that’s not the case. That’s not what good counseling is. Good counseling is helping someone find their own answers.

So, for me, it’s number one—the fact that students share with you means they trust you. And so you’re there to just understand them, not to try to put your own understandings on them, but really give them the time and jump into their shoes.

Because the reality is, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and my reality is very different from theirs. I can’t begin to understand what they’re going through. I can, you know, I can do my best to empathize, but they need to teach me. So a good counselor is someone who really listens to make that person feel like, “Okay, share with me.” And as they’re sharing, they’re often coming to their own answers.

So, you know, that’s, I think, the best way to approach it.

Sam Demma
You support the staff, which supports the students, but I know from being in your school that you are in the building running around everywhere nonstop, appearing in classrooms, being a part of the assembly programs. Where did your leadership principles develop from? Did you have some really solid mentors, or have you learned over the years from your experiences? Where did you form your own principles?

Michelle Gauthier
And my leadership style, I guess, is what you’re looking at. So sometimes—and I’ve told this to some of my former mentors—you see people wearing the bracelets. You know, sometimes you’ll have a bracelet that says, “What would Jesus do?” or that type of thing. And that’s—my number one mentor would be, you know, just that whole idea of Jesus Christ as servant leader and servant leadership. I’m here to serve.

But I have other bracelets that I wear, and there are former principals that I’ve—you know, I sometimes think, “What would Steve do?” Oh, sorry, there’s our bell. You know, “What would Steve do?” or “What would Greg do?” or “What would Norma do?” And so, those people who—you know, I’ve worked with lots of different administrators, and I take bits from all of them that meant a lot to me. And I wear their bracelets on my wrist, and they help me when I’m in a difficult situation trying to think, “What’s the best approach here?”

And all leaders have different styles and personalities. So I’ll pull on each one of those when I know—“I know Norma would be able to deal with this well,” or “I know what Steve would do.” So that’s, yeah.

Sam Demma
I had a three-year experience with a coach in my life. His name’s Chris Cummins. And we would talk every Tuesday for about an hour and a half, and I would bring to him all of my problems and challenges in my professional pursuit. And he would bring to me questions that would help me uncover the answers I needed to hear—good counseling.

And you can’t see it, but off to the left of my office is a document on the wall that says “The Cummins Commandments.” And I actually created this as a gift to him when our coaching experience ended. And it was the principles that, from our three years of conversation, are things that I would carry forward in my life as a result of the time we had spent.

When you talk about Greg and Norma and Jesus, it makes me think of the time that I shared with Chris. And so I appreciate you sharing that. I think that learning from others is one of the best ways to form our own thoughts and ideas and principles.

One of the experiences that I think of the most in terms of my own education as a student was teachers who made me feel really special, who listened very well. And some of those experiences I had with those educators—they’re things that I’ll remember for the rest of my life. Can you think of any experiences recently where a student has been recognized or celebrated and you think, “Gosh, this is going to be a moment that this young person remembers for the rest of their life”?

Michelle Gauthier
Absolutely. And there’s a few of them, and I have so many memories too. So I’ll just tell you one little story about—I was at a Starbucks, this was a number of years ago, maybe 10 years ago. And this young man stopped me, and he goes, “Miss Gauthier?”

And I’m like—and I’ve taught so many kids over the years. And he introduced himself, and he goes, “You might not remember me, but you taught me grade eight. And I used to like the environment. And you brought me a little flyer that you saw in the Body Shop. And you said it made you think of me, and you gave it to me, and you influenced me to go into environmental sciences.”

And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” We never know the tiny little things we do, the impact they have.

But to answer your question a little bit more about something more recent, I have a student—so I had an opportunity about three weeks ago. The principal of our Safe Schools program reached out to a few principals and said—“We have this opportunity to recognize a student who exemplifies kindness, leadership, and joy. Do you have a student in mind?”

And I was like, “Yes.”

And it was not hard for me to think of who. And it’s this young girl in our school. Her name is Favour. And, you know, she has made it her mission this year to bring joy. And I have to say, it’s been our focus at Frank Ryan on just building character and how important it is and the elements of character.

She’s in grade eight now, so it’s her second year. And she came to me early in the year and she asked, “Miss Gauthier, can I do the joke of the week?” Because we had—she loves jokes.

And I said, “Sure.”

And so she was putting jokes on our daily announcements. And then one day, I was walking through the hall and, geez, Favour is telling me a joke every day. And I asked her, “You know, Favour, you must really like jokes.”

And she said, “I do. Jokes make people happy and make people laugh. And I think that’s really important. And I want to make people laugh.”

So I wrote that up in that little quick blurb to the Safe Schools principal, who sent it to the police, and she was chosen for the bike.

And it was so sweet. When we went to the police station on the weekend—the Ride to Remember is just a ride that police officers across the province of Ontario do to remember fallen officers. And they ride all the way from Thunder Bay to Ottawa, and they stop along the way.

At each stop, they were going to gift a youth with a bike. So here we are on Saturday, and Favour was our chosen student for Ottawa. Her dad was there, her sister was there, and they’re not a family that has a lot.

And just the pride on their faces—the pride of her dad wanting to have his picture with her and the officer. When they did the presentation, they said a little bit about why she was chosen, that she likes to say jokes. And so they gave her an opportunity. She wasn’t shy at all, and she had a joke for the chief of police.

So here’s this grade eight student ready to tell the chief of police a joke. And she said, “What do you call a bike that can’t stand?”

And he looked at her, and she said, “Any guesses?”

And she’s so confident with him—I was so proud of her. And he’s like, “No.”

And she said, “Too tired.”

Michelle Gauthier
And everybody just laughed.

It was so perfect. But that is something I think she will remember. I will remember for sure. That’ll bring her forward, and we’re celebrating that as a community. We took pictures of her, and we put it on our daily announcements, celebrating her as a role model for the other students as well.

Just be a good person, and the world will work in your favour, you know. So, yeah, that was a really sweet, sweet memory that I’ll have for a long time, and I think she will too.

Sam Demma
The Starbucks experience is one that I think a lot of teachers can resonate with. And this story about Favour is one that I’ll also remember for a long time. While you were sharing it, it made me think of students’ pathways in life.

And maybe Favour will be a comedian in the future. If jokes are something that she is extremely passionate about, you just never know. I think it’s so important to give young people platforms to explore the things that make them excited. And maybe “Joke of the Week” becomes “Joke of the Day” if she has that much comedy or jokes to share.

Hearing that the family showed up and how happy, excited, and confident she was is such a beautiful story. So I appreciate you for sharing that on the show.

Michelle Gauthier
My pleasure.

Sam Demma
I know that there are likely many educators tuning in who are needing a little bit more joy and laughter in their life. If there’s an educator listening who’s feeling a little burnt out, and the start of the school year has been a little bit challenging, what advice would you share with them or words of support?

Michelle Gauthier
So I think the big one for me is to remember why you’re here. You’re here for the kids.

Find the joy, you know, find the joy in the kids. It’s been an intense start for us at Frank Ryan—just a lot going on, all good, but a lot going on. And last week, there was a moment where I was a little bit overwhelmed and feeling stuck in my office.

And I just said, “I gotta get out.”

And I went out, and I just—I went to the cafeteria where all the grade sevens—so 250, you know, 11- and 12-year-olds gathered in one room. You can imagine the chaos that that is. And I just stood in the middle of it.

And one of the teachers said to me, “Are you looking for someone?”

And I’m like, “No, no, I just needed to be here. I just needed to be in the middle of this chaos of these beautiful kids and just reconnect to the joy and reconnect to why we’re here.”

And all these kids, it may seem chaotic and crazy, but they’re all smiling. They’re having fun. And I think, you know, when we’re getting overwhelmed, it’s just to sit back and remember why we’re here.

These kids are just precious, and it’s not an easy road, especially pre-adolescence and intermediate school. It’s not an easy task. I’m not sure I’d want to go back to grade seven and eight. So just to remember that we are privileged to be educators, and we have a real privilege to be able to make a difference for these kids and help them when life is hard.

Life is not easy for kids these days when we look at all that they’re facing. So what a gift we have to bring joy. And when you’re feeling a bit depleted, find the kid that brings you joy.

Sam Demma
That’s such good advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show, Michelle, and share some of your ideas around counseling, being a good listener, your leadership style, some of the stories of impact in your schools, the importance of wellbeing, and supporting the staff in the building.

It’s been a privilege chatting with you. Keep up the amazing work, keep up the laughter and the joy in the building, and I look forward to crossing paths again very soon.

Michelle Gauthier
Yeah, we hope to have you back soon, Sam. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Michelle Gauthier

December 5, 2024 by Sam Demma Education Educator Principals School Administration School Counsellor Student Success Teachers 0

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

About Martina Fasano

Martina Fasano began her teaching career in 2003 at YCDSB’s St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School. She also taught grade 8 at Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School before returning to the secondary panel and eventually serving as the department head of Canadian and World Studies at St. Maximilian Kolbe, where she taught economics, law, and history. As a vice-principal, Martina has had the honour and privilege of serving both the Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy as well as the St. Brother Andre Catholic High School communities prior to being appointed as the principal of St. Elizabeth.

Martina has served on various committees at the Board level, including the YSCPC (York Secondary Catholic President’s Council), Drug and Alcohol Awareness (DAW), and the Covid-19 Logistics and Planning Committee. She was also a member of the committee that developed teacher resources for the history curriculum revisions which focused on the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Calls to Action to embed Indigenous history into the grade 10 history curriculum in Ontario. As a member of the Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association (OHASSTA), Martina also developed curriculum-based teacher modules on behalf of the Ontario Ministry of Education as part of a targeted project about the role of school trustees.

Throughout her career, Martina’s passion for engaging students has been at the forefront of her efforts toward forward thinking curriculum development in the social sciences, student leadership, school-based digital tool implementation, arts education, school/student safety, and data-informed school improvement. She has also had the opportunity to work with music industry professionals in the capacity of musician, author, social media manager, and public relations strategy. These experiences have allowed Martina to connect student learning to the world beyond the classroom, and bring exciting and dynamic opportunities to the school communities that she has served.

Connect with Martina Fasano: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School

Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School

St. Maximilian Kolbe

Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy

St. Brother Andre Catholic High School

St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by my good friend, Martina Fasano. Martina and I met just over a year ago now. She began her teaching career just over 20 years ago, and she is now a phenomenal principal of a school in the York Catholic District School Board. I’m going to allow her to introduce herself.

Sam Demma
Martina, please share a little bit about who you are with the audience.

Martina Fasano
Thank you so much for having me, Sam. Yeah, it’s been almost over a year now, which before you did your first gig here at St. E’s. So yes, I’m the principal here at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School, home of the Regional Arts Program as well, and having a great time.

Sam Demma
So you have one of the most interactive offices I’ve ever walked into in a school building. There are records hanging on the wall, guitars, and interesting objects on the shelves. Tell me a little bit about your own involvement in the arts that makes you so passionate about being at St. Elizabeth.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely, so I’ve been myself a musician probably since I was about maybe in the fifth grade or so. I’m not counting the drum set that I got when I was about four years old. But so that part is something very near and dear to my heart. Arts education in general for me was really something that helped shape who I am and the self-discipline that came from it. It was an even playing field, is what I would call it.

You start out where I was very fortunate. I was in a school board in Toronto, a Toronto Catholic as a student, and we started our music education programs there in grade 6 with a full band program. So that was the first time I had actually played music in a group, and you basically had a chance to start from scratch and learn an instrument, practice, and do all those things.

And I figured out very quickly that if you just practice and you play all the right notes at the right time, then everything sounds nice. So that’s kind of a metaphor too, for life in general, which is kind of where I took it. I started out as a saxophone player—that was my first instrument—together with piano. And then by the time I got to be a teenager, I added guitar in there because I was listening to a lot of rock, metal, and grunge at the time. It was the height of the grunge era, let’s say, with Nirvana and Pearl Jam and all those guys.

But definitely something that I carried into adulthood, into university. You jump from high school into post-secondary or into “What am I going to do with my life?” To quote Dee Snider from Twisted Sister, “What are you going to do with your life?” We want to rock, right? So I looked at going into the music industry from a more—not just the creative aspect—but looked into the business side of things.

That didn’t really resonate with me because I wasn’t doing anything that I enjoyed in my post-secondary program. I started out in business administration, and I thought, “I can’t do this for the rest of my life. I’m bored. There’s no creativity happening anywhere.” People work in cubicles. I can’t do that. And that’s why my office looks the way it does. It needs to have things in it that bring joy, make me happy, and serve as conversation pieces.

Because when a student walks in, for me, this is just my workspace. But for a student, especially if they’ve never been in trouble, they assume the principal is there to get you in trouble. So I don’t see it that way. But I noticed very early on in my career as an administrator, they see the title that’s on the door. And I noticed that having a lot of these little things around helped kind of put them at ease because they were conversation pieces.

So we get to that before we get to why the student was there. And most often, the student actually is not here because they’re in trouble. So it’s kind of a reputation thing—people think you only get sent to the principal’s office when you’re in trouble—but we’re dealing a lot more with supporting students as opposed to discipline.

Sam Demma
Well, you’re also the only principal that has a record on the wall with the plaque and their name on it. What is it all about?

Martina Fasano
So, the one that’s hanging in my office was actually when I left a school I was at, St. Maximilian Colby. The Canadian World Studies Department re-recorded Hotel California and changed all the lyrics as a goodbye gift. So that’s what’s hanging on the wall. And the little plaque actually has all of the changed lyrics, which are actually quite funny if you read them.

And it’s interesting because I do have a real one at home that 17-year-old me probably would have been really, really happy about. And, you know, wouldn’t have believed me if I said, “You’re going to end up getting a platinum record, but it’s not for what you think.” You’re not going to be in the band, you’re not going to be one of the producers, and you’re not going to be one of the managers, but it’s going to happen by way of your involvement in the music industry somehow.

And I would have laughed at you and said, “Sure, okay, whatever.” But I ended up being a ghostwriter for a rock musician, and that was the gift. The gift was the platinum record from the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack because the band that the artist originally recorded with, The Runaways, which is Joan Jett’s first band, had a number-one song, Cherry Bomb, which went to number one when Guardians of the Galaxy came out as a movie.

So, the record went platinum, and that person that I ghostwrote for was in that band. They got the platinum record and decided to also get me one because I was working on her book at the time. It was just about finished when that happened.

So that’s kind of cool. You’re right, I don’t know of any other principals that maybe came to education for the same reason. For me, it was like, “Why do you want to work with young people? Why do you want to specifically be around teenagers all day?” I get that question a lot.

And for me, it’s quite easy. There’s an energy to young people and a hope to young people that they naturally have that unfortunately, for a long time, schools have kind of almost stifled. And I thought in my wisdom as a young person myself when I made the decision, “If I can maybe change the way schools work, maybe it doesn’t have to be boring, maybe it doesn’t have to be something where there’s all these expectations, instead of actually cultivating a lifelong love of learning.”

Because when you look at, “My mom really wants me to do this and go to university to have this job, and I don’t want to do it, and I don’t know how to tell her,” I’ve had quite a few conversations with students and their parents about that. The fact that I switched my major halfway through from business administration to fine arts cultural studies, talk about a complete polar opposite.

But you have to find what brings you joy. You can make lots of money and maybe even be powerful in some cases doing something that you don’t enjoy. But you’re not going to be as good at it, in my view. You’re not going to be as fulfilled as a human being. And in the end, for me, it was like, I would like to be for young people what I would have needed at the age that I was at all along the way.

And that goes for why I became a vice principal or a principal as well. What did I need when I was a first-year teacher? So that’s what you try to be for somebody else.

Sam Demma
What do you think first-year teachers need to hear, specifically ones that are starting in the education space today, with so much change, especially coming out of the pandemic?

Martina Fasano
That they don’t need to be afraid to take a risk. That it is supposed to be difficult, that all great things are, but that they don’t have to do school and classrooms the way maybe they experienced and to not be afraid to be different.

Because right now, in my personal view, we’ve been doing education wrong for a long time. We have all the great people in the buildings, we have all the great programming in the buildings, we have a curriculum that helps us open those doors. But we are also based on a model that came to be in the 1800s as part of the Industrial Revolution.

Public education was meant to get everyone in line and trained to go to work. Sitting in rows, being obedient, and doing repetitive drills—memorization and all these things. Maybe for that world, those were the skills that were needed. But right now, we live in a world that schools haven’t caught up with yet, if that makes sense.

A perfect example: I was at the Billie Eilish concert last night, and you have the stereotype that young people are lazy, not passionate about things. I saw about 20,000 young people who were quite passionate about what they were seeing. They weren’t bored, they weren’t lazy—they were jumping up and down. The place was almost thunderous.

And in my view, I thought to myself, “This is what school should be like with all these young people in a building. Why are we trying to make everybody so quiet?” It doesn’t make sense to me. So part of being here at St. Elizabeth and having the Regional Arts Program here is that you get to showcase that. You get to see people being creative all day long.

Even if someone’s not in the Regional Arts Program, they still get the benefit of being in that space where creativity is free to flow and to happen. It has an impact on the children that surround those kids that are in the program.

So that’s definitely what I say to a first-year teacher: Don’t be afraid to take the risk. Don’t be afraid to be authentic. The students will see right through you if you’re not.

Sam Demma
I perform at many schools, and I intentionally call it a performance for the same reason you think students shouldn’t be quiet. Like, it needs to be an experience where they have a say and a voice in it, and it speaks to them on an emotional level—not just an educational level—and evokes emotion.

So many times, I’ll finish a speech or a performance, and one of the teachers will walk over and go, “Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry that the students were so loud.” And I say, “No, I encourage it! I egg them on throughout the performance. I want that. Yes, this is what we want. We don’t want them to just sit there with their legs crossed and hands on their lap, just looking in silence.”

Martina Fasano
Yep. You don’t learn if you’re being passive; there’s no learning happening. I distinctly remember being in my second year of teaching, and I was teaching English at the time. The play we were doing was Romeo and Juliet, Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet.

I always had a problem with Shakespeare being taught the way it was. I used to say, “Us reading Shakespeare like a book is the same as showing children a movie by reading the screenplay.” It’s a play—you’re not supposed to be reading it; you’re supposed to be acting it out.

So, I had a relatively rowdy class. I remember that distinctly. I said, “I can’t do this to these kids. The things my department gave me to use, this is not what we’re going to do. We can’t do this. These children will not only get nothing out of this and miss the complete point of the story, but you cannot expect a young person to want to read that old English text as a dramatic piece and not ask them to act it out and see what’s going on.”

So, we constructed this day where we said, “First, we have to figure out what this section of the play is about. Where are we? What’s going on? Romeo and Juliet meet at the party.” So, we basically said, “We’re going to make it a masquerade party.”

We made masks and everything else. I had the vice principal, bless her heart, come by. There was all this noise coming out of my classroom. She knocks on the door, and I opened it, horrified. I thought, “Oh my God, someone must have complained, or something happened.”

I explained, “We’re acting it out because it’s a play.” And there was this pause, and I thought, “This is it; I’m in trouble.” But then she said, “I’m so glad that all this noise is coming out of here because it means the kids are learning. Keep it up and have a nice day.”

The kids thought they were in trouble too! What does that say? If we’re learning stuff and having a good time, we must be in trouble? So, as a classroom teacher, I made it a point to do things that are fun. You have to because if you don’t, you don’t learn. Even if some of them are cheesy or purposely cheesy, they’ll remember them because they’re memorable.

Sam Demma
I couldn’t agree more. I absolutely love that you shared that story, and I hope the educator listening to this reshapes how they think about student engagement. There’s a phenomenal book I’ve been reading called The Advantage by a guy named Patrick Lencioni. He talks about the difference between really successful organizations and ones that fall flat on their face.

One thing he mentions is cohesion among the leadership team. It could be cohesion in a classroom or a staff room. He says the whole team needs to weigh in their thoughts and have constructive disagreements. If the whole team doesn’t weigh in, they won’t buy in.

So, if there’s no weigh-in, there’s no buy-in. That stuck out in my head. When you think about a classroom, students weigh in by using their voice. You don’t want silent people silently agreeing. Silent agreement means they’ll leave the classroom and tell their friends, “I disagree with everything we just talked about in the classroom.”

You want thoughtful disagreement to come up with the best ideas. I love that you shared that story. Thank you so much.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. There’s a lot more where that came from. I eventually got the hint that if you don’t engage them, they won’t learn. Some of those kids in that class had repeated referrals to the office when they were in someone else’s class—repeated.

I knew that coming in because sometimes, unfortunately, I’d get warned and told, “Oh, you have so-and-so; watch out.” I did my best to know my audience. The best thing about teaching is the powerful, real-time feedback.

If you’re teaching a lesson and everyone’s asleep, guess what? You’re not reaching anybody. But you have that feedback in front of you. If you’re willing to step away from what you think you should be, because maybe that’s what you were used to or how you learned, you can adjust.

We’re preparing students for a world that doesn’t even exist yet, using methods and tools from an era long gone. Then we wonder why students aren’t engaged or willing to take creative risks. Starting from when they’re four years old, we teach them compliance. Line up in a straight line, or you get in trouble.

Structure is important because people thrive in it, but there’s a difference between structure for compliance and structure for growth. They’re two very different things.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love that. It’s like having a fence that keeps people in a space, but within that fence, there’s freedom. Is there any experience you’ve had as an educator or principal where you’ve had a big learning experience—something you tried that didn’t work out the way you thought but became a pivotal learning moment?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. One of the first things I learned as an administrator was related to communication. Let’s say there’s an initiative or a memo you put out, and a couple of teachers don’t follow through or do something different.

It’s easy to send a staff-wide email saying, “Remember to do this,” when really, you’re talking to just two people. I learned from doing that once that it’s not the best approach.

As a classroom teacher, how would I feel if I got that email and I was already doing everything right? So now, when I communicate, I think about the high-performing teachers doing amazing work. I base my decisions on the best people in the organization, not the outliers who didn’t follow through this week.

That applies to classroom management too. If you punish the whole class for one student’s behavior, it affects everyone’s morale. Make decisions based on your best people—it goes a long way.

Sam Demma
That’s such good feedback. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation, and I know the person listening feels the same. If they want to reach out, is it okay to put your email on the podcast page?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. They can also follow me on Instagram, where we post about our school’s Regional Arts Program, performances, exhibits, and more. There’s always a lot going on, which is why the hive metaphor works—it’s always buzzing, and that’s a good thing.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sam. All the best.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Martina Fasano

December 3, 2024 by Sam Demma Education Educator Mental Health Principals School Administration Student Leadership Teachers 0

Danielle Desjardins – Principal at St. Thomas of Villanova High School

About Danielle Desjardins

Dr. Danielle Desjardins is the Principal at St. Thomas of Villanova High School and a sessional instructor at The University of Windsor. Throughout her 26 years in education, she has explored many roles including high school teacher, instructional coach, vice principal, and safe and equitable schools principal.

Dr. Desjardins’ research and professional passions are rooted in critical, emancipatory theory and practices. She has dedicated much time and interest in working with underrepresented communities in challenging policies and practices that pose barriers. Her current research interest is in policies and practices that impact the educational trajectories of newcomer students with interrupted or limited formal education. She is currently a member of Windsor Pride Board of Directors and has dedicated much time and interest in advocating for 2SLGBTQI+ needs and education in secondary schools.

Connect with Danielle Desjardins: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Thomas of Villanova High School

The University of Windsor

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today, we are joined by a very special guest, Danielle Desjardins. Danielle is the principal of Saint Thomas of Villanova High School in Windsor, Ontario, and she’s a friend of mine. She is trailblazing the way. She never stops educating herself and learning. She loves school so much that she recently finished some more education. Danielle, why don’t you take a moment to introduce yourself?

Danielle Desjardins
Hi, Sam. Thanks for having me here. I’m an administrator, currently a high school principal. I was born in 1997 and worked as an English teacher, English second language, teaching multilingual learners, department head, and a consultant for differentiated instruction. Then I became a principal of Safe Schools and Equity, and later a vice principal and principal. For the past six years, I finished a PhD, which was on my bucket list. And I’m currently also an instructor at the University of Windsor.

Sam Demma
What keeps you driven and moving forward and pursuing more and learning more?

Danielle Desjardins
I think I’m just an inquiry-based approach. When you work with so many different people from all different backgrounds and lived experiences, and you see youth who are full of hope and often facing barriers, I’m a problem solver. I want to learn more about the nature of those barriers. I want to hear more stories. I want to explore maybe new ways of thinking or approaching and working with community to find solutions. So, I’m just an inquisitive person, I suppose.

Sam Demma
What questions are you asking yourself right now in regards to young people and supporting them?

Danielle Desjardins
Yeah, I think I’ve always been a critical analyst or critical theorist, and so I’m very interested in populations that are historically disadvantaged and kind of emancipatory frameworks. We have the responsibility as educators to be problem solvers and creative thinkers, aligning with 21st-century learning that we’re espousing for these youth. So, collaborating, listening to stories, checking our own biases, and challenging ourselves to imagine walking in someone else’s shoes. You spoke about this before, Sam, for sure.

And also to work with community members who might have a better understanding through their own lived experiences to guide us through that ally process. I’ve done a lot of work. For instance, I’ve been on the board of directors of Windsor Pride, supporting 2SLGBTQI+ youth facing barriers in educational systems.

Sam Demma
Do you think about all these questions when you leave the school building? Is it like a non-stop thing that runs through your head?

Danielle Desjardins
Yes, I do. I think about it and try to expose myself to others who have those same passions and curiosities. That’s why I love teaching at night, joining in book talks, or reading scholarly journals to see what the latest research is. It’s a global academic conversation. What are people doing in other countries and places in the world? I was just speaking with a leader from Mexico who ran a school based on SEL (social-emotional learning). The school’s core curriculum was SEL, and everything else was layered out from there. That makes sense to me because what we want is someone who can look at a problem with a knowledge foundation and say, “No problem is too big.” It’s about believing you can solve it and using resources in a world that’s becoming even smaller and more accessible.

Sam Demma
I asked if you think about it outside the school building because your passion is so obvious. You can hear it, you can feel it through the podcast. When you’re walking through the school hallways of Villanova and talking to students or engaging with teachers, what are some of the challenges they tell you they’re currently experiencing or facing?

Danielle Desjardins
I often hear from students that they struggle to balance the expectations placed upon them from various sources. They internalize these expectations and adopt them as their own, which makes them lose sight of what they truly want. Sam, I know you’ve expressed this to our students before. That’s why you’re celebrated—you’re right on. Our students are saying things, and we’re focusing this year on managing stress and strategies. We’ve created a committee to identify and name emotions beyond “I feel sad” or “I feel happy.” We’re identifying the sources of stress and implementing quick strategies in all our classes. It might be meditation, breathing exercises, square breathing, or visualizing. We’re doing this in math, science, history—it’s not curriculum-specific.

Danielle Desjardins
We’ve also realized that some students face external pressures, like having to contribute to family income or excel at extracurriculars to secure scholarships. Social media also weighs heavily on them. They wonder, “Do I look the right way? How do people perceive me?”

Sam Demma
A teacher recently shared a line with me that stuck: “Teachers aren’t just supposed to teach the curriculum; they’re supposed to teach character.” It’s hard to figure out how to help young people solve these challenges. How do we teach empathy or help them unpack the burdens they carry in their metaphorical backpacks? What are some initiatives at Villanova that you’re excited about and anticipating cool results from?

Danielle Desjardins
Every school does fundraisers and gives back to the community, but what makes it enriching is ensuring inclusivity. We run a fantastic Best Buddies program to ensure all students are included in school activities. Recently, we noticed tension in the junior class. To address this, we called upon all grades to facilitate a fun day, ensuring representation from art-focused students, STEM-focused students, music, and tech. We also have initiatives that combine different departments, like building structures for charity events. For example, we’re planning a “Canstruction” event at the local mall. It requires engineering, artistry, and collaboration among robotics teams, tech, and art students. This breaks down silos, allowing students to explore new areas and appreciate diversity. We also started a course this year on positive media communication. Students promote their peers through social media and other mediums, ensuring no voices are left out. It’s been exciting to see how this course unfolds.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. There’s so much happening at Villanova this year. Thank you for sharing some of the initiatives and your thoughts on wellness. You’ve mentioned a lot about students, but educators’ well-being is equally important. What do you do to make sure your cup is full so you can show up for others?

Danielle Desjardins
Great question, Sam. I think educators often neglect themselves. As a leader, I prioritize creating opportunities and safe spaces for teachers to express their needs. I ensure they feel valued and listened to, even if an idea doesn’t seem feasible at first. I challenge myself to say, “I don’t know that it won’t work.” Flexibility and recognizing when someone’s having a tough day go a long way. Sometimes, it’s as simple as our demeanor and openness. We also do fun activities, like participating in student events. For example, during Fun Day, staff joined students on the slip-and-slide. It’s about building community through shared experiences. Personally, I find wellness in volunteering and spending time with students outside formal settings. For example, last weekend, I volunteered at a community event with students, which left me feeling great. I also run and model the importance of balance for students, joining them on cross-country runs or simply being visible and approachable.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. I think it’s so important for students to see teachers as human beings—laughing, playing, and participating alongside them. It builds a community that can’t be replicated. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your insights, Danielle. From the bottom of my heart, I hope this academic year is filled with impactful moments and meaningful experiences.

Danielle Desjardins
Right back at you, Sam. Thank you for this opportunity. I’m humbled to participate, and our students still talk about your presentations. We’ll definitely get you back.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much, my friend.

Danielle Desjardins
Take care.

Sam Demma
Take care. See you soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Danielle Desjardins

November 26, 2024 by Sam Demma Education Education Consultant Educator Principals School Counsellor Student Leadership Student Success 0

Bryan Burns – Principal at Matthew Halton High School

About Bryan Burns

Bryan Burns is the Principal of Matthew Halton High School in Pincher Creek Alberta. This year is the second for Bryan as Principal, however prior to that he was the Assistant Principal for three years. This year will be his tenth year at Matthew Halton, where he spent eight years as the Learning Support Teacher, taught various levels of Social Studies and brought the first Hockey Academy ( which he still runs today) to Halton.

Culture and creating a positive environment where students, staff and members of the community want to be is the driving force behind his personal philosophy. Bryan can often be found interacting with students in his own classroom, participating in lunch intramural sports or walking through the halls to have personalized conversations with others. His desire to create positive experiences extends out of the classroom into extracurricular athletic activities. Currently he is the school cross country running coach and prior to admin life taking more time he also coached volleyball, baseball, basketball and other school sports.

Connect with Bryan Burns: Email | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, S potify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Matthew Halton High School

Hockey Academy

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam. And today we are joined by Bryan Burns. Bryan is the principal of Matthew Halton High School in Pincher Creek, Alberta. I had the pleasure of learning a little more about his community last year. And he just got back from a conference in Vegas.

Sam Demma
Bryan, how was it? Thanks for coming on the show. And how was your conference?

Bryan Burns
It was great, Sam. Thanks for having me. And yeah, lots of learning. The weather was fantastic. Here in Pincher Creek, it’s always windy, as I think you learned last year. So it was nice to get out of the wind.

Sam Demma
Did you know when you were a student yourself that you wanted to be in education? Or what brought you to this path?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, that’s a great question. I really – I was one of those kids in school who I didn’t know what I wanted to be. And truthfully, some of my friends, I was applying to university, I knew I was going. They said, “Hey, do you want to try out education?” And so I did a concurrent degree at Lakehead University in Thunder Bay, Ontario. And that way, I would have my Bachelor of Arts if I didn’t like teaching. And once I got more immersed into the teaching, I realized I liked it. Some of that started with coaching Timbits hockey, five-year-olds. And that was a cool experience. So from five-year-olds now, you know, we got some 18-year-olds in here, quite a mix.

Sam Demma
What was it about teaching itself that was something you became drawn to?

Bryan Burns
I think it was the idea of helping people, right? And when you kind of hit those aha moments, where whether it’s a big struggle or something really small, you kind of said this in some of your presentations too, right? Like you feel better when you help others. And to quote a great person, everyone’s got stuff in their backpack, right?

Sam Demma
I don’t know who I’m talking about, but…

Bryan Burns
It’s those pieces, right? It’s the wins that, with other people, you celebrate their successes, and then you feel great as well. So that’s the biggest rewarding part I find.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I think those actions of kindness and service to others also light us up, like you said. And I’m wondering, did you have other coaches or teachers in your life when you were a student, or even now, that helped you have some of those aha moments that showed you what was possible being a teacher?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, coaching. I played a lot of hockey just at a house league level growing up and had some good coaches with my dad, my uncle, friends’ parents as well. So gained a lot of good resources in terms of knowledge through them, not just on the ice, but also how to be a good teammate, how to be a good friend, how to be a decent person. And so those were the big ones from the sports side. But the teacher who made the most impression on me was my high school history teacher, Mr. Smith. He was also the football coach. So he was a mix of caring but that firm, stereotypical football coach approach. And he left an impression on me of, you can go out and do things if you really try, right? So that’s the biggest thing. Put a little effort into stuff and you’ll probably get some movement here, progress.

Sam Demma
It sounds like his philosophy around effort was a big thing that stuck with you. Was there anything else in specific that he did, or when you reflect on his leadership as a coach and a great teacher, that you think other educators listening may want to reflect on or think about modeling in their own classrooms or with their teams?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, the biggest thing was he always brought a sense of awareness to learning, and he made it engaging and fun in the way that, you know, he would bring history to life. History can be boring for some, but the way that he just presented it, you know, he’d be reenacting the French Revolution standing on desks. Not saying every day has to be that, but just something that puts a smile on your face.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. When you think about the teachers in Matthew Halton, you now are in a position where you’re not only helping students, but you’re supporting the staff, which in turn will serve and support the students in the building. How do you help the staff so that they can help the students?

Bryan Burns
Another great question. I think there’s lots of things you can do, right, from the academic standpoint, a sense of belonging. That was something that really our school focused on last year, was students walking in the door and staff feeling that, “Hey, I belong here.” Not to say everyone’s going to right off the bat; for some, it takes longer, but really pushing staff to create an environment and doing that myself of, “This is a pretty good place, I wanna be here.” Because if you come in and you’re already defeated, that “I don’t belong” or, “Hey, this doesn’t fit my mold,” it’s gonna be really, really difficult to do all the other things to your best potential.

Sam Demma
I can tell you as a guest of Matthew Halton, I felt welcomed warmly from the moment I walked in to the moment I continued on my way. From the students who met me in the office, Kevin spending the day making sure the tech was taken care of, the warm introduction, and the community members who showed up in addition to students to watch the performance – like every aspect of it was so thoughtful and well-planned. I think I know exactly what you’re referring to when you talk about walking in and feeling that sense of belonging, because I felt it when I arrived. Is that something that you’ve had to work on, or has it been present in the community for a long time?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, so I’m coming up on year 10 here at Halton. This is my fifth year in the office. So not to say I didn’t get to shape or have a perspective on that as a teacher before getting into the admin side of things. But I’ve always felt that sense of community here, but really trying to put a push to it the last two years within our school goals of, let’s really try and make a stamp on here and create this identity, right? And so shape it through values. That’s something we’re working on this year – how can we get the students to create values that they see as important and then actually live it each day so they’re not just, you know, five words on paper, but actually have some substance to it.

Sam Demma
I love that. You have a painting – no one can see it, but it’s behind you on the wall there. Is it student art, or is there a story behind it?

Bryan Burns
Are you talking on this side here? Yeah. That is not student art, but we definitely have lots of that around the school. I grew up in Ontario, and so my parents met an Indigenous artist, and they’ve created some work for them. It was actually a gift for my mom, and it’s fitting that I’m talking about my mom on your podcast because lots of your stories involve your family and your mom. So yeah, we’ll dive into this one. It was something when I became the principal, my mom wanted to get me something for my office. She said, “I know that there’s an Indigenous connection out here; we have the P’gani Reserve very close by.” And she wanted to put a little bit of home, Ontario, into my office. So yeah, it’s actually the artist who did it. My mom gave her a couple of ideas, and it’s actually called “Learning Through Halton Pass.” She created different things like my dog is incorporated in it, my wife, my family, some friends. Yeah, glad you picked up on that.

Sam Demma
I find that when you leave with curiosity or ask genuine, thoughtful questions about something, there’s usually cool stories or connections, and you find that we have more in common than we do different. You start to see humanity in other people. And so I noticed it from the time we started the call, and I wanted to make a point of asking you about it. I found when I ask young people similar questions, or I’ll notice something and I just genuinely ask about it, they start telling you stories, and you build a deeper relationship. I’m just curious, from your perspective, working in education for so long, how do you think you build those deep relationships with young people?

Bryan Burns
I think it’s exactly what you’re saying – through curiosity, right? And genuine curiosity. Our school is, you know, we’re under 300 students, grades seven to 12. So I have a pretty good sense of who the students are coming into our building. Last year, with our grade 7s coming over from our feeder elementary school, I wanted to get to know them. So I’m not just, you know, the guy in the office. I actually did one of our option classes with them, and I called it “leadership.” But really, that course was a chance for me to connect with them and get to know, you know, who’s doing ranching in the community, who likes to read, who you know – who are you? That’s the piece, right? Because in my mind, they’re going to be here for the next six years, and we spend lots of time together. So I want to get to know you so I can connect, as you’re saying, on that personal, genuine level.

Sam Demma
That sounds like getting to know the students is one big aspect of it. When you think about the culture you’re building of belonging in the school, how do the teachers play a big role in it as well?

Bryan Burns
I think a lot of it is being visible. Whenever a new staff member comes on, I always joke that if you come into our staff room, you’ll probably be the only one there. And they kind of look at me funny a little bit. So, you know, lots of staff are hanging out in the common area at lunch where all the students eat. We have intramural sports at lunch. There’s always a staff team involved within that. Sometimes we’re mixed in amongst the kids; sometimes I challenge the staff because what’s better than beating up on them in dodgeball, right? Really empowering them to realize the impact they have with their students, right? And admitting our flaws and our faults – that we’re all people, but also connecting with them in those authentic, fun ways.

Sam Demma
I love the idea of you being the only person in the staff room, because everyone’s out and about and supporting the community and engaging with the students and other staff members. The vocation of education is one where you have a big heart, you want to serve, and most educators want to give back and make a difference. Sometimes it’s hard to balance the service to others and the giving back with taking a reprieve and making sure your own cup is full. How do you personally balance the two extremes?

Bryan Burns
It’s a very difficult balance. I had a former colleague once tell me, “If you’re a lonely person, this is the career for you,” because there can always be something going on, right? Especially in a smaller tight-knit community. As much as I love being here, I love being with my family as well – my wife and my kid. We just had a baby New Year’s Eve last year, so that’s a totally new balance for me personally. Some of it is simple tips and tricks for myself, like having a calendar so I’m on time for the things I need to be here for, but also at home. There are ways to incorporate family into the school life as well. So just making sure that, like you’re saying, keeping your bucket full, doing the things you love that keep you happy. And sometimes it is tricky though. It’s a tricky profession in that regard.

Sam Demma
In those moments where you might be a little spent or burnt out because of all the different moving parts and things that are going on, how do your colleagues play a role in supporting or peer-to-peer support? How do you think about that?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, I mean, lots of techniques and humor, right? It’s not like I came into the admin role in a new school where I didn’t know the staff, so I was fortunate to have those existing relationships. I think it’s like any dynamic where you have that sense of trust, where you can call each other when you’re having a bad day, tell a joke – something small to change your mindset or perspective. I just had a staff member come in right before this and they just told me a feel-good story, and hey, what a way to put a smile on your face, right?

Sam Demma
Hey man, you made me laugh when you said the Oilers were a good hockey team just this past year.

Bryan Burns
Yeah, hey, they almost had it. But yeah, that’s fun. You gotta have some laughs for sure.

Sam Demma
Of course. I’m wondering, when you think of other resources that have helped you in your journey as an educator, so you can contribute more to students and other staff, are there any events you’ve attended or resources you found that have been a great help for you?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, I think the biggest thing is connecting with people, right? It’s getting in touch with not only others in education but also seeing how you can make connections outside of the building. A couple of specific events – you just mentioned I got back from a conference in Las Vegas, and there were other members of our school division there. Lots of times, you know, at admin meetings, everything is tight deadlines or we have to go through this policy. Sometimes when you can spend some time outside of your normal environment with people who have similar roles or jobs, just trading stories. I’m definitely thankful for many people. A friend of mine and a colleague here – his dad was the superintendent of the school division years and years ago. He once told me, “Do you want one line of advice for education?” And I said, “Yeah, of course.” And he said, “If you’re making this decision and it’s not in the best interest of kids, don’t make it.” So just being able to communicate with people in that regard, I find, is much stronger than most of the books I’ve read or going to a conference for a weekend. Those are the things that make that lasting imprint on you.

Sam Demma
I think you’re so right about the connections with others – not only outside the school building like you mentioned but also your colleagues within the school building. I had a guest recently who told me that they built an arrangement with other teachers in their school who had the same lunch. They would sit down, eat, and share best practices or ideas or challenges, and then brainstorm together. It was almost like a daily mastermind so they could continue showing up the best they possibly could for their students and also have some humorous moments about things that were unfolding in their classrooms that each other weren’t aware of because they were in their own rooms. I think that camaraderie and the support is really important. There might be an educator listening to this right now who’s feeling burnt out or who’s struggling a little bit, or maybe it’s a teacher who’s just finishing their education degree or their bachelors and they’re excited about jumping into the world of education but feeling a little nervous. What do you think someone needs to hear on their first day working in a school?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, great question. A couple of things processing through my head here. I think it’s always kind of reminding yourself – and you asked me off the top, you know, “What’s the reason? How did you get into this?” Right? – and going back to your core values of, yeah, why did I get into this? It’s an amazing job. There are tons of rewards to it, tons of hardship. So I think when you’re in both of those times, just trying to refocus. “Hey, remember the other day it wasn’t like this.” Every educator has had times where this is a real tough gig or “Why am I doing it?” Like many other careers, too, right? But when you can refocus on that “why” and shift your energy, focus on those important values – like I mentioned, that’s the basic thing, right?

Sam Demma
I agree, and I have a question. Has your “why” shifted since you had a new child? That’s such a pivotal moment, and I’m curious, did it shift at all the way you think about education or educating kids? Mind you, they’re not in school yet, but they will be soon.

Bryan Burns
Yeah, everyone always told me, “Hey, once you have your own kid, it’s going to change your life in lots of ways.” And yeah, it definitely has. In terms of how I look at things within my career aspect, yeah, I would say it has. I went and toured a daycare the other day, outside of work, and you kind of think, well, actually, this is where learning starts after home, right? You’re really putting your trust in other people to take care of your kid, right? The most important thing in your life. So I’ve always heard that and felt that sense of honor, really, when you get to be responsible for others. But you look at things a little bit more closely, right? I’d be lying if I said I didn’t notice some safety things and thought, “Oh yeah, that corner looks kind of sharp here. Maybe I should…” So all the new dad things I’m enjoying.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome, man. Well, congrats again, and thank you so much for taking some time to chat on the podcast about some of your educational experiences and ideas. That one line you shared about making sure every decision we make is in the best interest of kids is gonna stick with me, and I hope it sticks with everyone who’s been tuning in to this show. If someone wants to reach out to you and ask a question or connect, what would be the best way for them to do so?

Bryan Burns
Yeah, absolutely. Totally welcome that. I’m not one of those Twitter or X users in the education world, but you can absolutely email me. So, burnsb@lrsd.ab.ca. And yeah, like I mentioned, connecting with people is the best way I find to learn and grow. I’m super thankful, Sam, for you asking me to be on here and getting the chance to know you. Because not only did your messaging impact all the students here, but some of them – you know, your message went really deep. I think others learned if you’re gonna ask for an autograph not to use a dry erase marker and use a Sharpie. I don’t know if you remember that. But yeah, I’ve appreciated what I’ve learned from you. I’ve listened to you speak publicly twice now and shared some messages. So thank you.

Sam Demma
Thank you, Bryan. I appreciate it, and I hope this next year is a really meaningful one with lots of impact. Keep doing the great work you’re doing, and I look forward to our next crossing or conversation.

Bryan Burns
Absolutely. Thank you.

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November 7, 2024 by Sam Demma Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Teachers 0

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