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Student Leadership

Kristan McTernan – Vice Principal at the Toronto Catholic District School

Kristan McTernan – Vice Principal at the Toronto Catholic District School
About Kristan McTernan

Kristan McTernan is a Vice Principal with the Toronto Catholic District School. Prior to becoming a vice principal, she was a teacher for over a decade specializing in teaching English, Special Education and ESL. Highlights of her teaching career include leading the team that won a 2022 TCDSB Exemplary Practice Award for expanding the House System and establishing a mentorship program at Brebeuf College School. In the same year, she was awarded the Toronto Secondary Unit’s Status of Women Committee Exceptional Teacher Award for her efforts both inside and outside the classroom. Forming relationships with staff and students through various extracurricular activities, from coaching swimming, and moderating Student Council to organizing Grade 9 Orientation and Grade 12 Graduation make up some of the most memorable experiences of her teaching career.  As a high school administrator, Kristan is passionate about supporting all students by thinking creatively about “outside the bell”  solutions to address challenges to student success. She credits her willingness to think “outside the bell” with the fact that all her experiences in high schools thus far have been in specialized learning environments. Not only is she a Mary Ward Catholic Secondary School Centre for Self-Directed Learning alum, but she also taught at Brebeuf College, a single-gendered all-boys school, and is now a vice principal at Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts.  Throughout her career, Kristan has developed a passion for equity in education, with a focus on BIPOC representation in leadership. She is currently a mentor and one of the committee members of the TCDSB’s Racialized Administrators Mentorship Program. The goal of the program is to provide information, guidance and mentorship to BIPOC educators who may be interested in becoming an administrator. At both the board and school level, she continues to share her experiences as a black woman, black educator and immigrant to Canada proudly raised in Scarborough to further the positive impact of the TCDSB’s robust Equity Plan on the lives of students and their families.   Outside of school, Kristan is a proud mother of two boys aged 7 and 10. She raises her sons with her husband who is also a TCDSB administrator, which makes for colourful discussions at the dinner table. Formula 1 Racing rounds out the top three things Kristan is passionate about, just below her family and her school community.

Connect with Kristan McTernan: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Toronto Catholic District School
Mary Ward Catholic Secondary School Centre
Brebeuf College
Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we’re joined with a very special guest. Kristan Mcternan is a vice principal with the Toronto Catholic District School Board. She and I met less than a year ago, collaborating on an event. And I’m so honored to have her on the show today.

Sam Demma
Kristan, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Kristan McTernan
Yeah, so that’s pretty much me in a nutshell right there. I’m Vice Principal of the Toronto Catholic District School Board. I have the pleasure of being the Vice Principal of Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts. I have been a Vice Principal for about two years, going into my third year. Before that, I was a teacher at Braybuff College for 14 and a half glorious years. And so, yeah, now I come to Cardinal Carter as a vice principal and just embracing what this role brings.

Sam Demma
Did you know you wanted to work in education, or what did your own pathway look like as a student?

Kristan McTernan
Education, yeah, I knew because I think it was in my blood. The path really started with my parents. Both my parents are educators. My dad retired. My mom is still a special education teacher. But when we moved here from Trinidad when I was five, I really watched them fight to get back to the classroom. They needed to get recertified and get some things in order, and that took a while. While they were working and transitioning into being Canadian citizens with two young children, they were also studying and getting themselves certified. I saw that passion they had for teaching, and when they finally got back into the classroom, it really resonated with me.

In the meantime, I was that kid who would line up all my teddy bears, give them little handouts, and decorate a wall in my room as a bulletin board. I’d change it up every so often to reflect themes or different seasons because I really wanted to emulate my parents and their love for education. That carried me to high school, where I had great teachers in both elementary and high school. At Holy Spirit in Scarborough, I was a student from JK to grade eight, and then I went to Mary Ward, which gave me a unique perspective on education because it’s a self-directed learning center.

Kristan McTernan
And while I was doing that, I got involved in working with Toronto Parks and Recreation, now called Toronto Parks, Recreation, and Culture, in the camps. That sparked it for me. I knew I wanted to be a teacher as soon as I got there. Before, I felt it, but when I started working with kids through camps, working my way up from an assistant leader to an area coordinator managing a group of camps, I fell in love. So, when I went to university, I took a psychology course, focusing on education. I did a double major in English and Criminology and a minor in History. I thought for a hot second that maybe I wanted to do law.

Kristan McTernan
But a teacher told me, “You want to work with youth. Do you want to work with them after they’re in the system, or do you want to reach them before they enter the system?” I said, “No, I want to work with them before.” And that was it. I did Teachers College and all the good things that led to this point. So, yeah, I think it was in my blood, starting with my parents.

Sam Demma
Cardinal Carter has one of the best art programs and facilities in the board. Is there a connection to arts in your own life that inspired you to be at this school, or was it luck of the draw that you ended up here?

Kristan McTernan
Well, it’s luck of the draw. Even though I had a brief foray as a saxophonist in elementary and high school, I wouldn’t say I have a musical background or a background in the arts. That allows me to be the biggest fangirl of all the arts in our school. I’m loving the drama, music, dance, and visual arts. I’m loving all of it. I can just be an amazing fan for the students because I don’t come to it with my own background in the arts.

Sam Demma
I was blown away by the amount of student art on the walls and just the energy of the students. It was such a welcoming space. What are the values that you and your team and the staff try to instill in the students? What is the culture you’re striving to build? Because it’s very apparent that when you walk in, it has a really welcoming feeling.

Kristan McTernan
Oh, it’s amazing to know that it’s coming across to visitors in our school. We are very much working with artists, and as a staff, we’ve talked a lot about the unique struggles for students who are artists, who have this creative mindset. Instead of focusing on expectations and being creative, they already come with that. What we strive to do is help them have balance—to celebrate their successes, to understand that failure is only part of the journey, and to provide them with a counter perspective than what they come with.

Kristan McTernan
That’s what we do at our school—to build community among the different art areas and bring students together across the art areas to embrace the experience of being a student. Balance in life, mental health, and well-being are just as important as creativity and being the best you can be. Our students tend to come with that, and we just provide the other perspectives to help them live a really balanced life and be their own best selves.

Sam Demma
When it comes to building connections or relationships with students, building rapport, how do you go about doing that as an adult?

Kristan McTernan
Once, when I was a teacher, someone came to me and said, “You have this way of joking around, but you’re not messing around.” I’ve tried to embody that. I want students to see me as a person, someone who cares about them first and foremost. Yes, there are things I need to enforce, but beyond all that, I care about their growth. I’m willing to break down my own walls, share my own experiences, and even share my own mistakes with them.

Kristan McTernan
I tell them, “I’ve been a student longer than I’ve been a teacher or an educator. I’m telling you this because I want the best for you.” When students see that, it’s the easiest way to build that relationship because they know I’m genuine. They’re willing to share their successes and fears, struggles and triumphs. That’s been the key to building those relationships as a teacher and now as a vice principal.

Sam Demma
That phrase, “I’m joking around, but I’m not messing around”—that’s gold right there.

Kristan McTernan
Well, I have to give credit to the person who said it first. His name’s Dave. Early in my career, he said that, and I ran with it.

Sam Demma
When you think about interactions you have with young people that have left them better than you found them, do any stories of impact come to mind? I ask because a lot of educators got into this field to make a difference, but sometimes they don’t hear about their impact until years later when a student bumps into them at the grocery store and says, “Miss, you changed my life.”

Kristan McTernan
I see it every day. At any given moment, I have students who need me. Even their growth from when I got to the school to now has been amazing. For example, attendance is a big piece. When a student says, “Miss, I didn’t skip today,” that’s a badge of honor. And I’m like, “Yes, amazing!” Celebrating those accomplishments with them is huge.

Kristan McTernan
As a teacher, I’ve had impactful moments too. I had a student who sent me pictures of his newborn son. When students come back and want to interact with you in their adult life, you know you’ve done something right. Those are the moments I carry with me—every time a student comes back to visit and tells me what’s happening in their in their lives is amazing.

Sam Demma
Who have been some of the impactful mentors in your own life or people that support you as a vice principal, as a teacher, that without them, you know, you think, gosh, life or the way I approach things would have been very different.

Kristan McTernan
I have, I’m like going, thinking about my journey of getting to education, I can name them as we go from stage to stage. As I said, my parents, first and foremost, and see, like, I would say, my mom is one of the most incredible educators I’ve ever met. I’ve seen kids that have been written off and my mom’s like, in her Trinidadian accent, no, we’re gonna work with this kid today, like that is happening.

That persistent attitude, that determination that no kid is going to be left behind, and every kid is worthy of growth and accomplishment, I get from her. When I was in elementary school, I had two amazing teachers, Ms. Bailey and Ms. Kudo, who showed me what it was for a teacher to care about a kid outside of the classroom.

When my parents dropped me off early in the morning, and it was really cold—we’re from Trinidad, I wasn’t used to this—Ms. Bailey took me to her class and allowed me to stay there. She would help me with my work. She had high standards, but she was willing to help me reach them and to care about me and my family.

She actually was a person I turned to when I was becoming a teacher to help me with the interview process and all that. She’s never given up on me. At Mary Ward, we have something called a teacher advisor. They are a teacher who actually doesn’t teach you—or they may teach you, but they don’t have to—that sees you every single day of your high school career. They see you in the morning, at lunch, and in the afternoon, tracking your progress and talking with your parents.

For me, it was Miss Earl. She was an amazing example of how a teacher goes beyond curriculum. A teacher cares about kids. She cared about me and kept me on the straight and narrow. My mom did it at home, and I knew Miss Earl would do it at school.

I also had a teacher named Mr. Wetzel who taught me that teaching is about helping students see the curriculum and engage in it beyond just the right answer. It was about what I could prove was the right answer, and that’s why I got into English.

Right now, I have a current mentor, my principal, Linton Soares. Yes, you met him when you came over. He’s a great mentor. He’s helping me take those values I had as a teacher, align them with his values, and bring that forward into this role. He helps me stay true to why I got into this in the first place, so it doesn’t get lost in the everyday tasks of running a school.

Sam Demma
It’s awesome that you can name these people one by one based on the stages of your life. I’m fortunate that I’ve had so many mentors myself, and I think about it all the time, like, thank God for putting these people in my life because they all seem to come at the perfect times when I needed them most.

We met in the most weird, coincidental ways. And I just know that if I didn’t have those people, my own values and the way I show up and the decisions I made would have likely been very different. So it’s nice to pay homage to some of those people. And if they listen to this, y’all just know that Kristan and I appreciate you big time.

Sam Demma
The start of the school year is no joke for a lot of educators because they just finished this two-month break. They’re excited, but sometimes they jump in, and it’s like, whoa, super overwhelming—there’s so much going on. How do you make that transition every year from summertime to another school year?

Is there any rituals that you have? Or like, you know, as a soccer player, I would always have these pregame routines, and I feel like the last week of August is pregame. What does your pregame look like?

Kristan McTernan
My pregame looks like first hanging on to every minute of the summer that I can before I have to let go. Just savoring every single minute of it so that I know when it’s time to get back into it, I’m ready. I think of it as Happy New Year.

Everybody celebrates January 1st, but Happy New Year for educators is the Tuesday after Labor Day. That comes with resolutions: self-reflection, what do I want to do differently this year? What were my successes last year? What do I need to do differently? What do I need to put in place to make that happen?

Every year, I go into it with the goal of finishing the way I started, finishing with the energy and perspectives I had at the beginning. Whatever I put in place to revise my practices leads to an even more successful outcome.

The job can be very draining—we put so much of ourselves into it. So, I want to create balance and be effective. My resolutions are often about that. I know my weaknesses, like organization. Sometimes I have to fake it till I make it, and it usually involves a lot of Amazon purchases, like a new agenda book. I can’t take my old habits into the new year!

A few new wardrobe pieces also help me feel ready to tackle a new year. I want to make sure that by the end of the year, I’ve done everything I set out to accomplish and made the most of the time with my family.

Sam Demma
I think that’s such a key reminder to be present wherever you are. Jim Rohn, a speaker who’s been very influential for me, said, “When you work, work. When you play, play. Don’t be at the beach thinking about work, and don’t be at work thinking about the beach.”

You ruin both experiences that way. When you’re at the beach, be at the beach. When you’re at work, be at work. That’s the sentiment you just shared. It’s something I need to hear right now because I’m always living in the future or thinking about the past, forgetting about the moment we have—right now.

Kristan McTernan
Exactly. There are only a finite number of summer days in my life, but there are also only a finite number of days in my career. So, I’m going to maximize all of it for what it is.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today.

Kristan McTernan
Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast!

Sam Demma
I hope the academic year this year is phenomenal, and I look forward to crossing paths again soon.

Kristan McTernan
Thank you so much.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Kristan McTernan

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 31, 2024 by Administrative Support Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Student Success 0

Michelle Jarvis – Teacher at Morrin School

Michelle Jarvis – Teacher at Morrin School
About Michelle Jarvis

Michelle Jarvis’s story begins in the small, rural community of Morrin, AB where she was born and raised. From her earliest memories, Morrin School was more than just a place of learning; it was a cornerstone of Michelle’s childhood. Michelle was a student in Morrin School for her K-12 schooling, moving through the grades with the help of dedicated teachers who nurtured her curiosity and encouraged her dreams.

Growing up, Michelle was the kind of student who thrived on the excitement of learning new things. These experiences planted the seeds of Michelle’s own desire to become an educator, and Morrin School was the backdrop of her formative years.

In 2005, after Michelle earned her teaching degrees and gained some experience in other schools, she felt a pull to return to her roots. The opportunity to teach at Morrin School was a dream come true. 

Michelle’s journey as an educator at Morrin School began with teaching grade one. It was a delight to witness the unfiltered enthusiasm and wonder of young children as they embarked on their educational journey. Over the years, Michelle has taught every grade from kindergarten through tenth, each level presenting its own unique challenges and rewards. Whether it was helping a kindergartener learn to read or guiding a high school student through choices that will impact their futures, every moment was a chance to make a difference.

Being deeply rooted in Morrin, Michelle understands that education extends beyond the classroom. She is committed to not only fostering academic growth but also to strengthening the ties between the school and the community. Over the years, Michelle has been actively involved in organizing and participating in various community events. From being an executive member of the Local ATA, Morrin Figure Skating Club, volunteer for Homecoming, to leading the after-school enrichment programs, Michelle’s role as a teacher has always intertwined with her passion for community service.

One of the most rewarding aspects of her career has been witnessing the growth and achievements of her students. Each year, as Michelle sees the development of students’ skills and confidence, she is reminded of the profound impact that education can have. Michelle cherishes the moments when a student who struggled with a concept suddenly grasps it, or when a hesitant young learner gains the courage to speak up in class.

In the end, teaching is about more than just imparting knowledge; it’s about building relationships, fostering a love for learning and helping each student realize their full potential. Michelle is honored to be a part of her student’s educational journey, and she looks forward to many more years of learning, teaching, and growing with the wonderful community of Morrin School.

Connect with Michelle Jarvis: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Morrin School
Alberta Teachers’ Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today I am joined by a good friend, Michelle Jarvis, who I met a few years ago and then had the pleasure of visiting her community at Morin School, whose t-shirt I now proudly wear while training for marathons. Michelle.

Michelle Jarvis
You recognize it.

Michelle Jarvis
Hi.

Sam Demma
Take a moment to introduce yourself. Hi, everyone.

Michelle Jarvis
I’m Michelle. I’ve been at this teaching gig for 26 years now and yeah, we saw Sam at a conference and wanted him to come share his info with our students. So, we came to the little town of Mourne, and we all see when you wear our school shirt proudly when you’re working out in training. We love it.

Sam Demma
One of your students, I remember when I came, gave me a chain to wear while I was speaking and I wore his necklace.

Michelle Jarvis
Yes, yeah.

Sam Demma
And the taco lunch was a big highlight after we finished too.

Michelle Jarvis
It was great. Yeah, the students still talk about that day. It was awesome.

Sam Demma
26 years ago, did you know that you were going to get into teaching or like, how did you find this vocation?

Michelle Jarvis
Since I was a little kid, my mom had one of those memory books, you know, you put your school report card in and what you want to be when you grow up. I always said teacher. There’s other things on there, but teacher was always something I wanted to do. And I had teachers that I loved. I’m like, I want to be just like them. So that’s kind of where it came.

Sam Demma
After that realization, what did your path as a student and into an early professional look like?

Michelle Jarvis
As a student, I just tried to mainstream my courses for university or whatever I needed. And then I applied and got in, and just right from the get-go, I was like, I’m doing this. And I was so excited when I got into education. I volunteered and did different things for the community, working with students and youth. I picked up summer jobs like Summer Fund or working at a teen center and just hanging out with students and trying to build relationships that I thought would benefit me with my teaching career. And then, yeah, I went to the university and got my degrees.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. And after the university experience ended, did you come straight back to this community? Or where did you go?

Michelle Jarvis
I was hoping to come straight back. But the principal here, he was my principal at the time too, when I was in high school, he’s like, “You know what, you need to go somewhere else, experience different places.” So, no, I went to Northern Alberta to an amazing Mennonite community. There were a lot of First Nations up there also. I stayed there for seven years and then I moved back and just slowly started substitute teaching and doing some work at the school here until a position opened up and I applied and got it.

Sam Demma
That’s so cool. What was different about school in that community versus the school you’re at now?

Michelle Jarvis
Not too much because they’re both smaller communities. The Mennonites, they were just an amazing group of people. They have a very strong faith base and strong community, like togetherness, building things and doing stuff for the school, the churches, and just the town itself. So I guess the difference would be the faith-based community because I’m in a public school here now. They were just, they’re amazing. You just, if you needed anything or if there was some event, they’d try and include you in it and bring you into the community activities.

Sam Demma
And it’s just very closely knit, I guess. That’s awesome. When you did come back here, did kids start pointing at your graduation photo on the wall?

Michelle Jarvis
Yes.

Sam Demma
Wow, that was you?

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, they did. It’s really cool. We just moved into this new school, which you presented in. But in the old school, we had less glass with a lot of walls, and they had all the grad photos up from all the years. My mom and dad’s grad photos were in there and then myself and my siblings, and we loved it. We don’t have room for them here, but we downloaded them and we put them on the TV that we have in the school so students can still see them. They asked grades, and they were like, “You graduated when?”

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, that’s awesome.

Sam Demma
When I arrived at the school for the performance, I remember walking into the office and there was a picture of six students on the wall. I was like, “Oh, are these your kids?” And the principal was like, “No, no, that’s our graduating class.” And I was like, “That’s awesome.” I think there’s such a unique thing that happens in smaller communities where the connections you make with kids are just that much deeper because you know their parents, their grandparents, where they shop. Everyone knows each other. What are some of the things you love about small tight-knit communities like the one you’re teaching in now?

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, that’s one of the reasons I like the small communities. I did some practicums in the cities, which is great, but because I grew up here, I think I’m just more comfortable. I guess the thing is, yeah, you know generations of families, you know, like their grandparents and their aunts and uncles, and you just have that relationship of family, even though you might not be related, blood-related. It’s just these deep roots, I guess, and the whole time going by and deep roots and connections that I really enjoy.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. And you also attended school at this school, which is super unique. I think it’s awesome that you’re serving the same school that served you growing up.

Michelle Jarvis
Kindergarten to grade 12.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome.

Sam Demma
When you think about teachers you had that were super inspiring or made a big contribution in your development, who comes to mind and what did those people specifically do that made such a big impact?

Michelle Jarvis
I had great teachers. There wasn’t any that I, you know, sometimes you have favorites or whatever. I did enjoy all my teachers. Things that stuck out with some, like Mrs. Vahidi, she was our grade three teacher and she made memorizing multiplications a thing, and we had to do it in 15 seconds and rattle them off and just made it games. And then after junior high and high school, just they cared. They wanted you to do well. So if you weren’t or you were struggling, they were like, “What can I do to help? Where are you?” You know, they just reached out and being smaller classes, they had that time and the ability to do that. So just things like that, and they made it fun, project-based things, different. Our biology teacher did a huge bio project. You had to choose something – the study of the meadows and plants and life that lived there. Another couple in our class did one; they did a pig dissection because one of the pigs had died. So they rebuilt the whole skeletal system. Just really cool things like that, that we were able to do.

Sam Demma
It sounds like experiential learning was a big part of it.

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, definitely.

Sam Demma
When you think about students you’re serving today in your school, how do you go about trying to build rapport and relationships with young people?

Michelle Jarvis
My son would be embarrassed, but I try to get up on all their knowledge in slang and use it. Totally embarrasses them. I also try to do project-based stuff or learn what the students like or the way they like to learn. I know like, you know, note-taking is not really a thing anymore, or lecturing. It’s like, okay, how can we get into this deep thought? And I try to relate it to real-life situations. Like, you know, often as a student in math class, it’s like, “When are we ever going to use this, Mr. Haslam?” And he’d be like, “You just gotta do it.” So, when I get asked that, I’m like, “Okay, let’s see, when will we use this?” We try to relate it back to real-life situations where, yeah, you actually may need this someday.

Sam Demma
That’s a good strategy.

Sam Demma
I was the same student asking those questions to my teachers, and I think that extra step reinforces in a student’s mind that this matters and that you care as their teacher. And I just had some teachers that were so passionate. They could have been teaching me about anything, and I would have been locked in because I was just overwhelmed by how passionate they were about what they were teaching. They could have been teaching us about paint drying, and I would have been like, “Whoa, this is amazing.”

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, you can tell when it’s something they love, right? Like, there are certain units I teach that I really like, so they can tell because I’m excited, like body language and just everything. Yeah, you’re right. There’s those teachers that resonate with you because it’s like, yeah, you could definitely make anything exciting.

Sam Demma
Now, a lot of teachers at this time of year are excited because the school year is starting, but also overwhelmed because you’re coming out of the break of the summertime. This may be a tough time in your life based on things that are happening outside of the school. How do you get through those challenging moments as an educator?

Michelle Jarvis
Myself personally, we have a great staff, and I know there’s people I can talk to, even our men team. I can go and talk to them about things like that. So, yeah, when you’re just kind of stressed out or feeling burnt out because it’s so overwhelming – the excitement of coming back and, like you said, you’re off a break and that – but it’s also “whoosh,” here’s all this work now. Yeah, I’m very fortunate. All the schools I’ve ever worked at, the staff and the administrators have been phenomenal, and I’ve been grateful that I have those people and those supports that I can reach out to. They understand, and they’ll either listen or give me some resources or things that might help me in those times.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome that you have that support system.

Michelle Jarvis
It is.

Sam Demma
Outside of your experiences as a teacher, you’ve been involved in the community, and you’ve been involved in coaching, volunteering, and with teacher associations and conferences. Where does this never-ending energy come from?

Michelle Jarvis
Oh, there are days I’m a zombie, but I don’t know. It’s just, it’s a passion of mine. I love it. I love being a part of the community and the school. And it kind of feels like being a rock star. I went to Homecoming last year, and I ran an alumni volleyball tournament at the school. All the past students that I had came back, and people were like, “Wow.” They’re just so excited to see you, and I’m like, “No, I’m excited to see them too.” I don’t know. It’s just there. It’s just something in my heart, the passion about it. And, yeah, even when you’re tired, though, you just push through it because you know the benefits and the outcome are just so rewarding – to see them and to see the students succeed and grow up. And they come back and visit, and it’s amazing.

Sam Demma
When I talk to educators, I ask them why they got into this work, and most of them tell me they want to make a difference. They really want to support and amplify young people. Can you think of a student who was really struggling before you started teaching them, or even just someone you noticed? And through their experiences in school and in extracurricular activities, you saw them make a really big improvement. You can change their name if it’s a serious story, but the reason I bring it up is because I think a lot of educators forget how much of an impact they’re having on young people. And sometimes that young person doesn’t come and tell them right away. So hearing stories like these ones just remind them why they’re doing this work in the first place.

Michelle Jarvis
There are a few students that come to mind. I guess one is just struggle – came from a tough home, not, you know, just kind of didn’t have a high economic status. Maybe both parents had to work a lot of jobs. The kids came to school with what they could to eat. They liked to hunt and do different things to help provide for their family. School wasn’t his favorite thing, of course, but he got through it. He worked really hard, got his grades, and was able to graduate. After, like two or three years later, I ran into him at my niece’s graduation in another town. And I’m like, “Oh, hey, what are you doing here?” And he’s like, “Oh, I’m friends with this graduate.” And I’m like, “Oh, it’s great.” And he’s like, “You know, I gotta tell you, you made a difference in my life. You’re the reason I actually graduated and finished school, and I’ve gone on and done really well for myself.”

Michelle Jarvis
And teachers often don’t realize sometimes the impact we’re having on students. And I said, “Well, what did I do?” And he’s like, “You were just there, you listened, you tried to build relationships and connect with me. I don’t think you’re a big hunter, but you would ask me, like, ‘Oh, how did hunting go this weekend? What did you get? How many geese? Or did you get your deer or your moose or whatever?’ And you just always encouraged us to follow something, our dreams or something that we were passionate about.” And he’s like, “And I’ve done that.”

Now I haven’t talked to him in quite a few years, but I know he was working as a hunting guide. Visitors would come from the United States or different parts of Canada and come out here, and he would guide them, show them where to go, and get permission from the landowners. I didn’t realize sometimes that we, as teachers, impacted students in those ways. They don’t often always come back, but he just, despite some of the challenges in his life and growing up, continued on. He finished school, and he went on, and he’s successful and contributing to the community.

Sam Demma
That’s so awesome.

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah.

Sam Demma
It’s funny how sometimes we don’t even recognize we’re making the difference.

Michelle Jarvis
Exactly. Yeah. Sometimes it’s just even talking to them or saying hi. One principal we had said, “Okay, every morning, I want you to connect with certain kids.” So we kind of did like a hockey pool draft, and I’m like, “Okay, these are my kids.” We’d say hello to all of them, but I’d focus on these ones – just make sure they’re okay and check in with them. And it was great because then we got to see them, and they got to see us outside of just the classroom. Just saying, “Hey, Sam, how you doing today? How is your mom or dad?” Just, like, on a personal level – even two minutes every day – just kind of checking in on them and reaching out.

Sam Demma
I remember a time in my life where I was really struggling. I had just started my career as a speaker and convinced my parents that it was a good decision to put my post-secondary education on hold to give this a go. I hired a coach because if I wasn’t investing in the formal education path, I told myself I was going to invest in education. I found a gentleman who was 25 years ahead of me, who had been speaking for 20-plus years. Then COVID hit. I had 30 presentations canceled, and I was bawling my eyes out, sitting on this hill near my house.

I called him – his name’s Chris – and I said, “Chris, this is the worst decision I’ve ever made. I can’t work with you anymore. I should be back in school.” And, you know, the whole 40 minutes, this guy barely said anything. He just listened. By the end of the phone call, I felt like all my problems were solved, and he didn’t even really say anything. It made me realize that sometimes people aren’t actually looking for us to solve their problems; they’re just looking for us to listen. They’re looking for us to be there.

So when someone’s struggling and they start telling me about their struggles, I’ll try to remind myself to ask them, “Hey, are you looking for a solution, or do you just want me to be an ear?” I feel like 90% of the time, they just want you to be there and hear them out. Despite the fact that you’re not a hunter, you took interest in that young man’s passions. I think there’s nothing more impactful that we can do when talking to young people than to care about the things they care about.

Michelle Jarvis
And they teach us, too. There’s another student that’s into football, and I’ve watched football, but not a lot. I just ask, “Hey, how was the game on the weekend?” He’ll tell me what position he plays, and I learn something from them also daily. I agree with you – just listening sometimes to the person. Even myself, like you said, at the beginning of the year, we’re overwhelmed. I’ll go talk to my coworker, and she’ll just listen. Then, after, I’m like, “Oh, thanks, I feel better.” She’s like, “You’re welcome.”

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. When you think about conferences you’ve attended or events you’ve been to, which ones stick out in your mind that had a big impact on building community and also taking back some important lessons to bring to the school?

Michelle Jarvis
When I was in university, we did a leadership conference in education. I was part of the planning committee, and we just brought in these speakers. It was exciting to see it from that side as an organizer and see how much it takes and the organization required. But when it all came together, it was just an awesome experience.

Of course, when I saw you and Savio at the Middle Years Conference, I was like, “This is something that’s fun and entertaining, but also connects to real-life situations that everyone deals with.” Another one, I think you’ve met her – Dr. Jody Carrington. I know she’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but she’s down-to-earth, and she says it like it is. That was another one. And Shelly Moore is another person that resonated with me. She struggled through school, and we just had her again the other day.

She’s there for those students who struggle. She says, “Hey, school isn’t for everyone, and that’s okay. But while you have to be here, we’re going to make sure you succeed. We’re going to make accommodations. We’re going to find your strengths, and we’re going to focus on those, not on the areas where you may struggle, because you’re great just the way you are, and you have things to contribute to us, too.”

Sam Demma
That’s awesome.

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, those are the people that resonate with me. I always want to attend their conferences or hear their speeches again.

Sam Demma
When you think about educators that may be struggling right now, if you could give them a word of advice, what would you share with them?

Michelle Jarvis
It gets better. Sometimes it just feels like it’s never-ending, but remember why you started. Yes, the paperwork, the files, the IPPs, and all these new systems for report cards are part of it. But remember why you started. You started because you love kids, you want to help them follow their dreams, and we’re here for them, not necessarily for all the administrative stuff.

So always refocus on that. Yes, that’s just part of our job, but what’s the reason we chose to do this job? That always helps me. I think, “I’m here for the students, and I want to be a good role model for them. I want to make this experience, from kindergarten to grade 12, a safe place where they feel comfortable and know I’m approachable.”

Sam Demma
Michelle, thank you so much for taking some time to come on the show, talk about your educational journey, your philosophies around building relationships with young people, the importance of listening, and the advice you’d share with someone who’s not feeling the greatest in the vocation right now. I hope you continue to find meaning in the work you’re doing and make a big contribution. I look forward to crossing paths with you again very soon.

Michelle Jarvis
Thank you for having me. Yes, I hope I can continue to do this for a few more years because I do love it and I love the relationships I build. So thanks for having me.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Michelle Jarvis

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 26, 2024 by Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Uncategorized 0

Natalie Fisher – Manager of Student Services at the Mohawk Students’ Association (MSA) at Mohawk College

Natalie Fisher – Manager of Student Services at the Mohawk Students’ Association (MSA) at Mohawk College
About Natalie Fisher

Natalie Fisher is the Manager of Student Services at the Mohawk Students’ Association (MSA) at Mohawk College, where she has dedicated the last seven years of her career. For the past two years, she has taken on the pivotal role of Manager, where she focuses on fostering student success and well-being within a diverse community. As a proud Mohawk alumnus and former member of the varsity women’s basketball team, Natalie brings a unique perspective to her role. Through her commitment to providing essential and barrier-free services, Natalie significantly enhances the college experience for students every day.

Recognized for her contributions, Natalie was nominated for the 2019 Women of Distinction Award by the YWCA – Hamilton, highlighting her impact and leadership in the community.

Outside of her professional responsibilities, Natalie passionately volunteers as a basketball coach for the Special Olympics in West Niagara, a role she has embraced for over eight years. Her dedication to both her work and volunteer efforts exemplifies her commitment to making a positive difference in the lives of others.

Connect with Natalie Fisher: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Mohawk Students’ Association (MSA)
Mohawk College
YWCA – Hamilton
Special Olympics in West Niagara

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by a very special guest, a good friend, volleyball coach, Natalie Fisher.

Natalie Fisher
Hey, what’s going on?

Sam Demma
Nat, thanks so much for coming on the show. Please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Natalie Fisher
Hey, I’m Natalie Fisher. I am the manager of student services at the Mohawk Student Association at Mohawk College.

Sam Demma
You’ve been there for how many years now? Seven. Seven years. And what got you involved or interested in serving young people and working in education?

Natalie Fisher
So I didn’t go to school. I feel like I’ve been at Mohawk my whole life. I went to school here. I took two programs. So I feel like this is my second home. But I really just wanted to make a difference, make an impact on students’ lives. So I worked as a student here on the campus and then I kind of worked my way once I graduated up into the role I have today, whether it was at a satellite campus or here at the main campus and then obviously in different roles but in student services. So this is my passion.

Sam Demma
The college couldn’t get rid of you even if they wanted to.

Natalie Fisher
They really couldn’t. They really couldn’t. I was a student, I was an employee, and then I was a varsity athlete. So I kind of hit all the areas here. So yeah, they are probably sick of me at this point.

Sam Demma
When you were a high school student growing up, did you know you wanted to work in education? Or what was your career path that brought you here?

Natalie Fisher
Yeah, so when I was in high school, talking with the guidance counselor, I wanted to be a teacher at the beginning. So I guess kind of with young adults, but then I wanted to be a nurse. So in my first year out of high school, I actually took nursing. And I didn’t love it. I didn’t like, I don’t know, I was a varsity athlete. I was from a small town. Coming into Hamilton was a huge culture shock for me. So it was a rough first year of post-secondary.

But then I kind of made my path a different way. And I did health wellness and fitness and then I did occupation physiotherapy. So that’s kind of how I came to where I am. And then I found a job within the OTA program field, but I found myself working a part-time job so then I worked at the college and then it all came into fruition where I am now.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome.

Sam Demma
Did you have educators in your life or coaches that kind of shed a light on good mentorship for young people that inspired you to get into this? Or, tell me some of the role models in your life.

Natalie Fisher
Yeah, absolutely. I can think of one, like, at the top of my head. Her name is Kelly Denham. She was a basketball coach when I played here. She worked in the alumni department at the time, and she also coached basketball in the community. So she kind of really was a role model in my life in terms of like just giving back to people and making an impact on young girls in the community as well.

So she was probably my biggest role model once I hit the college era of my time. She unfortunately has passed away. She got cancer during COVID but she will always have a special place in my heart and I will always remember her life lessons that she showed me, whether it was on the court, going through resilience and adversity as an athlete, as a student-athlete, and then giving back to the community, working with other people.

She’s really probably why I am where I am today, just in terms of the mentorship that she gave me and the advice that she’s given me. So she is a huge part of where I am and why I am the person I am.

Sam Demma
Oh, I’m so sorry about the passing. And I appreciate you sharing. I can think of some of the mentors I’ve had in my life that have had a similar impact as the one you’re describing that Kelly’s had on you. What do you think it is that she did? Or how did she show up that it really helped you?

Natalie Fisher
I think she also, she put me first and I am also that type of person. She had a family, she had two kids, so she always would see me at practice and like see that I was dragging my butt, like I was tired, I was like not struggling with school, but it was a lot coming out of high school and for you to go from like high school from a small town to a bigger city and post-secondary, it can be overwhelming at times.

And I think that the constant support and the constant of her putting me first before herself and her family was a huge thing that I was so grateful for. She offered her couch at one point because it was a snowstorm and I lived 30 minutes away from campus. So those small little things really made me be so grateful of those things that other people do in life.

The smallest things that we do for other people or even in my job, she makes a huge difference in people’s lives, and I think that’s why I appreciated her so much. Because the little things made a huge difference at the time for me, and I just was so grateful.

Sam Demma
Can you think of a moment one of your colleagues today did something small for you that had a really big impact and maybe it was recently, maybe it was a long time ago but what examples stick out in your mind?

Natalie Fisher
Let me see. I think of one. Obviously, everybody’s got a lot going on—jobs, life, family. And I would say the last two years, my dad has been sick. So it’s been hard for me to watch him go through all of that and I have a daughter and work is busy. So I’ve just been run down a little bit, like only six months ago.

And I think April, one of my coworkers, just said like, “Hey Nat, let’s get off campus, let’s have lunch, like let’s connect on like a personal level.” And she’s fairly new to the organization so I was like, “Oh, like what a great gesture.” She notices that I’m not myself at work and we had lunch and we both had tears, we had laughs, like it was such a good connection.

And I think from that point on, our friendship and our co-working space together has grown tremendously. And I think now I have that person to count on at work if I am having that moment, because I’m comfortable. I’m in that safe space that she’s created.

Sam Demma
I think it’s also such an important thing to remember that we’re not alone in those challenges because everyone’s going through something. And yeah, I’m so sorry to hear about your dad. But it’s so cool to hear that you have those supports in your workplace. Like it’s not something you have to wait for until you go home.

How do you think you cultivate those safe spaces where people can be themselves?

Natalie Fisher
I think it’s just like the small actions, like, “Hey, how’s it going?” And I know, like, we always say, like, a little chit-chat doesn’t mean a lot to people, but I think, like, you genuinely can sense someone’s careness and their empathy that they have for a situation.

So they’re not really just saying, “Hey, how’s it going?” just because you’re passing by. Like they genuinely want to know how you’re doing. And I think if you have that space, more people will be vulnerable to open up. You’re like, “I’m not okay.” And I think that’s what we’re finding now here at the college is where students are okay, are getting more comfortable to say like, they’re not okay, which is a huge stepping stone, I think.

But I, yeah, and it is great that I have that space here at work. Not everybody has that. They usually go to work and go home, and then deal with kind of like their mental health or their inner kind of thoughts. So I am very fortunate.

Sam Demma
I think also when people in leadership positions express vulnerability first, it gives everyone else permission to do it because everyone else may be hesitating because they’re not sure if it’s acceptable behavior. But when someone in a leadership position does it in front of everybody, it almost like creates permission for everyone else to do the same.

Natalie Fisher
I agree.

Sam Demma
And I think like being a young leader in the role I am today, I can say all of my staff under me are older than me. So like, it’s a unique dynamic that I have between my staff. And I guess if I have shown them that I am not okay sometimes, so I think like it also gives them a safe space to be like, “Nat, I’m not okay either.”

I remember probably just before September hit for Startup, one of my staff was on edge and I had went down to her campus and I was like, “What’s up?” And I had created that safe space because she knew I have been in that space. So she did open up and she’s like, “I’m stressed. I don’t know why.”

And so like, we talked through it. And then by the end of the conversation, she’s like, “Nat, like, thank you so much for like, letting me like, be myself and be open and about how she was feeling.”

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. So it’s so, I’m glad to hear that you make the time for those conversations, because I think they’re just as important as work-related conversations.

A lot of your role is managing other staff on your team, but you also do a lot of student-facing events and you interact with students a lot. How do you build a relationship with a young person or build rapport with young people?

Natalie Fisher
I think it’s totally different. And I don’t know, you are young too. So, but when I was a student, I was very open with like co-workers—or not co-workers, like staff and faculty that always came up to me.

But I find this generation in post-secondary is a little bit tougher. Like, they make things a bit harder for us to kind of build that relationship with them. But I think if they are having a problem or an issue, I think just listening to them is the biggest thing. They want to be heard.

And then I think just providing that empathy is a huge part too. So like, “I hear you, I’m listening. Like, this is how we can support you. If I’m not the right person, like let’s connect you with the right person.”

Before pandemic was probably a little easier because right now at the college like people are at home, some staff are not on campus all the time. So as the MSAA we try to connect them with a person instead of just going, “Oh, just email this person,” which I think goes a long way for people, especially international students who are new to Canada and don’t know the environment here at the college yet.

So connecting them with a person, like person-to-person interaction is probably the best way. And then we’ve had students come back to say like, “Thank you so much for your help. Like, I’ve really got my things dealt with.” So they are appreciative of the extra step and extra mile that we go to make sure that their issues or concerns are dealt with.

Sam Demma
I had teachers who went above and beyond to make sure that I was okay or taken care of and it made all the difference for me. I also had some coaches who had a big impact on me for that same reason.

How has sports played a role in your journey and your leadership?

Natalie Fisher
Yeah, for sure. I think sport is a unique thing. It brings life lessons kind of after the fact. You don’t think about them when you’re playing. I don’t know about you, but I definitely didn’t think about things in the life side when I was playing.

But I think just going through adversity and injury is kind of the same thing when you have a difficult employee or a difficult situation that you’re dealing with. So not to get down on yourself, think about how you can do better after the situation’s over.

Practice makes perfect. Like I feel like you’re not gonna get it right when you’re dealing with a situation for the first time. And so like going through it, you’re gonna learn something and then you’re gonna go through it again and you’re gonna learn another thing.

So I think very similar lessons, I guess you could say, within sport that translates into like the real world. Another thing is like time management. When you’re a student athlete, you gotta time manage huge, right?

So like coming into like a leadership role, you have your staff, you have your own work, and then like you have the leadership side of things. So for me, I’ve been in the leadership role for two years now, and I confidently say, like I am learning every day on how to be better.

Sam Demma
I think it’s so important to hold that mindset no matter whether it’s a job or a sport or whatever you’re getting involved in. I think the moment you think you’ve arrived and you know everything is the moment you start the downfall.

Natalie Fisher
Exactly.

Sam Demma
So I love that. Sports for me, too, were massive in life lessons. I had a coach who really cared about our character as human beings as well, not just the athletics. And he had all these weird, well, at the time, what seemed like weird rules.

There was this long cobblestone pathway we had to walk down to get to the soccer field, but if you just walked off the pathway onto the grass you could get there in like two minutes less. Right? Because it was a perfect like straight line shortcut whereas this path went in a massive circle for no reason to bring you to the soccer field.

So first couple of times I joined this club I cut off the pathway and walked on grass and I get all the way to the field and I’m shaking the coach’s hands and he’s like, “Sam, go walk back up the hill and walk down the pathway.” And I was like, “Okay, coach, my bad.”

We always had our shirts tucked in, like he was very much attentive to these little details. And the way he carried himself just stuck with me. So I think we had similar experiences when it comes to sports.

One of the things that happens as an athlete is you also have uncomfortable conversations, right? You know, you gotta have uncomfortable conversations with a coach, with your teammates, even with your parents in the car, sometimes after the game finishes, right?

And they turn to you and say, “So how’d you think you played?” And you’re like, “It’s one of those ones, huh?”

Natalie Fisher
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Sam Demma
I think it’s the same working with other people, you know, as a part of a student association. As a team leader, as a team member, how do you approach those challenging conversations with your staff members?

Natalie Fisher
Yeah, I think it’s, again, like listening, like active listening. I know like some leaders just kind of like listen but aren’t attentive to what people are saying. I think listening, providing them that space to really open up—I think if they don’t have that space to open up, you’re not going to get their authentic feeling or self.

But I also then think like working together to create that solution or to get on the other side of the difficult piece. It’s really hard to bring something to someone or have something brought to you and then you figure out, as the leader, you figure out the solution. I think it’s important that you work together with that employee to figure out what is the best option for us to move forward over this obstacle.

It gives them a sense of belonging and value. I think the worst feeling is for them to walk away and go, “Well, they didn’t do anything,” or, “I don’t feel like that’s the right direction that they were expecting.” So I try to listen to their story. I always ask them, “What do you think that we should do to kind of improve the situation?” or, “What are your thoughts?” And then I can share my perspective.

So it’s like a team—two people or a team figuring out what the best course of action is. It just gives them a sense of, “We’ve listened, we now are on the same page, so we have shared understanding.” And then moving forward, we’ll work together, and they know that the support is there. So if it does come up again, or there’s another roadblock before we get to the other side, they’re confident that they have the support beside them.

Sam Demma
I think the active listening piece is so challenging because in today’s days we have so many distractions—not to mention our own challenges. Like, someone starts talking and we’re thinking about 4 p.m., and we have to deal with this person or go pick up our kids. So is there anything you do that helps with that portion of the conversation?

Natalie Fisher
So I try to make notes as they talk. And then usually what I’ll do is I’ll kind of paraphrase what they said or what I’m hearing. I’m like, “This is what I’m hearing. Is this accurate? If it’s not, where am I missing pieces?” Just so if I do have these random thoughts in my head, like you were saying, I can then correct myself.

And so it could be a huge piece of the story that they’re sharing that I’m missing. So I do try to reiterate, “This is what I’m hearing. This is what you’re saying. This is how you’re feeling. Is that correct? Is that accurate?” Obviously, if they say no, probably questions help, but usually, they’re like, “Yep, perfect.” So then we kind of move forward.

Sam Demma
And you’re listening to your staff every single day, but you’re also listening to the concerns of hundreds, if not thousands, of students, trying your best as a team to cater to those needs. You have a pulse on some of the challenges students at the college are facing.

What would you say are some of the most common things in terms of challenges that students these days are carrying in their backpacks?

Natalie Fisher
I would say as an international student, money and jobs are a huge thing. Housing, affordable housing nowadays, is really big, especially in Hamilton. And then what the MSA and the services department—we’ve been focused on food insecurity. Food insecurity has been a huge piece of the struggle students are facing these days.

So we’ve expanded all of our food security programs. We are going to facilitate a Health Canada survey on food insecurity to get some data on how food-insecure students are based on 10 standard questions. So we’re really looking forward to that. Unfortunately, it’s going to bring back bad data, but I think once we have that data, we can then improve the resources and stuff on campus for students.

And then advocate to the institution to say, “These are the percentages of how food insecure students are. What can you do as an institution to also support these students?” So I would say food insecurity, housing, and money, jobs are the huge struggles students face.

Sam Demma
I was a guest at Mohawk College last year, and I noticed that this year, the local restaurant had these reusable containers that you could bring back to have your food put in every time you buy food there. And I thought, “What a unique way to be a little more sustainable and also provide a less expensive option for students who are going to continue using that reusable container.”

What are some of the other changes that are happening at the college that you as MSA are pumped about, or things that you’ve been working on and you’re excited to just shout on top of mountains?

Natalie Fisher
Yeah, so it’s called Friendlier, the sustainable kind of reusable program. It launched in September, so it is campus-wide. It’s not just the MSA, which is nice, and I think a lot of other colleges are trying to get on board with this initiative.

Another one, we launched a program called Dialogue, as you’re familiar with. It is an uncapped mental health wellness service. So we piloted it last year, so we’re super excited that students get to use it this year. Again, because before, we had capped therapy, so they got six sessions for their mental health, which wasn’t ideal because most students need more than six sessions to kind of get to remission in their treatment.

So this is uncapped, it’s virtual, on their phone, so very accessible. Another one—this food security thing is really big from our board of directors that we’re trying to figure out what students want. As you know, things are changing in the generations of students.

They don’t want to drink and party anymore, is what we’re finding. They want to just hang out, have a social connection with one another. So we really pivoted from our event side to really focus on social connection and how to get other students to interact with another group of students without kind of making it awkward for them.

So that’s kind of what we pivoted to. We have a huge international population, so we’re trying to cater events to them. But I think most of our events that we’ve kind of been hyped up all summer about are now over. But we have kind of programming going out throughout the year.

So yeah, lots going on at the MSA. I think there’s different things that we have happening and are catering to different demographics at the college.

Sam Demma
If there’s an educator who’s just jumping into this work now, who’s feeling a little scared, nervous, burnt out, what advice would you give them?

Natalie Fisher
Hold on. I think everything’s changing. I think if you don’t love change, post-secondary is not the work for you. I can confidently say within the seven years that I’ve been here at the MSA, not one year has been the same.

I love change, so it’s kind of great to adapt different things. I had one leader tell me when there’s a change there’s always an opportunity for new things. So I think if you do come up against a roadblock or you’re burnt out, there’s always going to be an opportunity on the other side, and I think if you find that opportunity, that will relight your fire to get back into it.

Sam Demma
That’s exactly what I told myself when my car broke down. “This is a beautiful opportunity for a new vehicle.”

Natalie Fisher
There you go.

Sam Demma
Nat, thank you so much for coming on the show. I really appreciate your time and your positive energy and your insights. And I hope that the work with the MSA continues to be successful and very meaningful.

Natalie Fisher
Yeah, thanks so much, Sam. Happy to be here.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Natalie Fisher

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 24, 2024 by Coach Education Student Leadership Student Success 0

Shianne Gammon – CTSO Manager, BPA & FFA

Shianne Gammon – CTSO Manager, BPA & FFA
About Shianne Gammon

Shianne Gammon is a Student Leadership Manager in the Idaho Division of Career Technical Education. She serves both BPA (Business Professionals of America) and FFA. Before she started in her role, she was a high school business education teacher for five years. During her time as a teacher, she was also a BPA advisor and coached high school girls basketball and volleyball. 

She is very passionate about CTE (career technical education) and CTSOs (career technical student organizations). Growing up, both of her parents were in education. Her dad a history/government teacher and football coach. Her mom a business education teacher, cheerleading coach and BPA Advisor. Following along in their footsteps just came naturally. 

Shianne now has the pleasure of working with the State Officers for both student organizations and helping them to become incredible leaders. Although, she would argue that she has actually learned more from them and they continue helping her grow every day. 

Connect with Shianne Gammon: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Idaho Division of Career Technical Education
BPA (Business Professionals of America)
FFA

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today I’m joined by Shianne Gammon, who introduced me to Chick-fil-A, ladies and gentlemen. She is a superstar. Shianne, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today. Please introduce yourself.

Shianne Gammon
Thanks for having me.

Shianne Gammon
I’m very excited to be here. My name is Shianne Gammon. I’m a student leadership manager at the Idaho Division of Career Technical Education. So I help support student organizations like BPA and FFA.

Sam Demma
How did you get into this work? Did you always know you were going to be a student in student leadership?

Shianne Gammon
I got into it through education. So both of my parents are educators. My dad is a, he was a high school government and history teacher and followed into politics and everything. And my mom was a high school business teacher.

Shianne Gammon
And so I followed right into her footsteps. I didn’t think I was going to, and then I did. So she was a BPA teacher or advisor. I was a part of BPA, which is Business Professionals of America. And so I got into teaching and loved it.

Shianne Gammon
I just think student organizations are incredible and a huge part of education. And so I love the idea of working at the state level, because then you also get to do like some event planning and coordinating and networking. And so when this position opened up, I just knew I had to be a part of it.

Sam Demma
So previous to this role, tell me about your own career journey.

Shianne Gammon
Yes.

Shianne Gammon
So, I went to college, not quite sure what I was going to do. I was not going to do education like my parents. And then after like a year or two of wandering around, I was like, wait, okay, I will. I got a general business degree and then I went an alternate route into teaching so you can get certified through the state for CTE teaching if you hold a valid credential. Like I had done enough work experience in business through various things and then I got that certificate so that I could teach.

Shianne Gammon
And so before that I worked for like a mortgage company, a title company, I worked for a radio group, and then I got into teaching and I taught for five years and loved it. And then I actually, the only reason I really left was just because I had three small kids and we were going through the pandemic and it was just a little too many things going on my plate at the time.

Shianne Gammon
So I stepped outside of it. And then when this position opened up, it was perfect because it was like back in education, but not fully back in education. And I could have a little bit of both.

Sam Demma
And you’re busier than ever now, traveling non-stop.

Shianne Gammon
Busier than ever.

Sam Demma
What do you love most about the work you get to do today?

Shianne Gammon
I love, I think my first answer honestly is working with the student organizations, especially the state officers. So I get to help coordinate the state officers for both of the orgs I work with, and they are just the most incredible kids.

Shianne Gammon
I always, I recently were getting ready to travel to DC with some of them, and I would, we’re planning a conference, and we’re doing these things, and I was like, I don’t know if I’ve given them what they need from me to be successful. And so we had a meeting, and they were going over their stuff, and I was like, oh, wow, you guys are incredible. Like, you knew exactly what you needed to do.

Shianne Gammon
And so really watching them, they just, their emotional intelligence, all the things that they have right now is just awesome to watch because I did not. I was not like that at 18, and I feel like I was pretty good, but they are just, kids are amazing, and they know exactly sometimes what they wanna do, what they wanna be, and how to do it.

Sam Demma
And it’s so impressive. How do you build rapport and relationships with young people that you support, like the state officers and anyone who’s a part of the associations?

Shianne Gammon
Yeah, I think building relationships is key to everything. It’s so, so important. So, especially like when I was teaching before, I would say that that was the best thing. The thing I was most successful with, was teaching, was I could build a relationship with a kid. And then I would learn all the rest of things, like how to manage a classroom and how to like go through the curriculum.

Shianne Gammon
But I was able to just build it just because I think it’s important to see them as people and they are, they come from all different walks of life. They’re all struggling with different things or maybe not, but they all have different things going on. And so I would just kind of, I’m not just there for them to come in the class, do their work and leave.

Shianne Gammon
I want them like to be seen and whether they’re my most high-performing kids, low-performing kids in the middle, like, and sometimes that’s obviously really hard in education because maybe you have like 35 kids in your classroom and you can’t sit there and talk to every single one every single day. But I would just try to like talk to each of them, get to know them.

Shianne Gammon
Some of my favorite things I would do my last year or two of teaching was I’d even always like, I’d have all the snacks in my room. They knew they could come in and get fed. And that’s the thing, like kids come in and maybe they haven’t eaten, maybe they haven’t, you know, there’s a lot of things going on. And so I’d make sure to have the snacks.

Shianne Gammon
It was a safe place. And I would just try to teach them. I think that was a good thing about being a business teacher was I was going more like, when you were put into the business environment as an adult, no one is teaching you, like how to, they don’t take your phone away, they don’t sit down, you know, like you have to learn how to live your life and get your job done.

Shianne Gammon
And so I would try to focus with that. And same with the state officers is, I’m like, it’s not just I’m with you for the year and then I never see or speak to you again. Like it is, no, we are connected for life. We’ve been through the trenches for the year, and I want to see them all do great, great things and I think they can just feel that from me.

Sam Demma
You mentioned right before we started recording, this is the second year and I remember when we collaborated for the Idaho BPA State Leadership Conference that it was your first and you were excited, you were elated, you were nervous, you were all the emotions, you know, everything was going on. Give us a peek behind the curtain of planning a statewide conference.

Shianne Gammon
Whew, it was a doozy. It is a lot and it is amazing. It’s an amazing thing to do and put on and it really put me through a big test because I’m definitely the planner person anyways. Like I love to plan things.

Shianne Gammon
If someone’s like, we’re going on a trip, I’m like, cool, here’s the itinerary. I planned it. I know what we’re doing. So I love that part of it. And it was, what I’ve learned from it, it was very, very important for networking just because there’s so many pieces that go into it.

Shianne Gammon
And one of the big key takeaways too is that you’re never going to do an event and have every single person so happy with it. There’s probably something that went wrong somewhere. And I want to be in control of the whole entire thing. And like, this next year, I’m like, okay, we’re going to delegate a little better. Put the right people that we trust, we find those people, we put them in the right place, they’re in charge of that, and then at the end I’ll be like, cool, how did that go?

Shianne Gammon
But I can’t be everywhere at once. And so planning the event was just, there’s a lot of logistics behind it, of course, and getting the right space, getting the right people, getting all the information out that everyone needs to have all the time. But I would say that the biggest things are making sure that you’ve delegated everything out and all of that, because it is a lot.

Shianne Gammon
And there’s a reason that people have teams doing events, that it’s not always one person can do it. It’s like, yes, one person can do everything. You’re gonna die doing it. So it is better for your own health and honestly for the event to be able to have all those people in it.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I could tell you from personal experience, I’ve managed my own business for the past six years and I have a few too many gray hairs as a result of that decision. And only recently did I finally stop being stupid and ask somebody for some help.

Sam Demma
And I have a really lovely team member named Renata now who has supported me in ways that I would never have imagined possible. And it’s freeing up my mental space to generate new creative ideas. And she’s doing a better job at half of the things than I would be doing myself. And it’s like it hits your ego, but it’s the truth, you know?

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about managing other people. I guess that’s a part of your role as a leader, and it’s something I’m new to. What have you found that works really well when you think about your own leadership style?

Shianne Gammon
Managing people can be very difficult, because especially I can be a little bit more of a people pleaser as well. And it’s hard to delegate stuff out because I’m like, wait, wait, wait, no, I can just do it, I can just do it. And so it is definitely uncomfortable depending on who you are and your personality.

Shianne Gammon
But for me, I feel like very clear communication helps a lot in knowing the expectations. And I’m learning that about managing state officers as well, is that sometimes things that I think are common sense or that don’t need to be explained, it’s like, no, still, you should probably, setting expectations is huge.

Shianne Gammon
People need to know what, where their vision is, what is going on, like, why are we doing this? Because if you’re just asking them to do something without the why behind it, that’s so hard to get everyone going in the same direction.

Shianne Gammon
And so that’s what I’ve found to be the most successful is really just like, okay, here are the expectations that I expect from you, here’s what you can expect from me, because that’s also being transparent and having your own integrity of like, no, whatever I’m asking you to do, I will also be doing it.

Shianne Gammon
Because there’s nothing worse than having a manager that you’re like, wait, you’re not doing that though. And so, doing that and having this really clear communication and trust, honestly, you know, that’s like, okay, if I gave you a task, I’m trusting that it got done.

Shianne Gammon
Otherwise, it’s so hard to delegate it out or anything like that. And so, just setting some really good, clear expectations and boundaries with people goes a long way.

Sam Demma
I was talking to one of my mentors about some of the frustrations I was having with working with other people. And he said, well, did you train them on that thing you’re asking them to do? And I was like, no, I didn’t. And he’s like, well, then how can you expect them to know how to do it?

Sam Demma
I was like, damn. And so that idea of sharing the expectations up front, or providing the training up front to just let people know, like, this is when you know this is done. This is how we do this.

Sam Demma
Then at least you’re on that equal ground where you can turn around and say, hey, we did show you how to do this and you did share that you understood. Tell me where you’re still stuck. So I think that’s been really helpful for me.

Sam Demma
I echo all the things you just shared as well. And what is the part of the job right now that’s bringing you the most joy and fulfillment and excitement?

Sam Demma
I echo all the things you just shared as well. And what is the part of the job right now that’s bringing you the most joy and fulfillment and excitement?

Shianne Gammon
That’s a good one. I would say the things that bring me – I always go to the people, honestly. People are, they are just what is so motivating and keep you going. Whether it’s my coworkers here in the office, I know if I’m coming in the office, it’s gonna be a good day.

Shianne Gammon
Like we’re gonna have fun. And I might grumble the whole way I’m driving. Once I’m here, it’s so fun and it is a good time. It’s a good team that you build. And like event-wise, I actually just took state officers to DC for the first time.

Shianne Gammon
And that was our first, like, so for BPA, they hadn’t done a leadership summit before. And so this was the second year they did it. They just implemented it last year. And so taking students to that and seeing the, they were seeing the bigger picture, they were seeing, they were advocating for CTE and for their orgs. And that was just super powerful to be a part of.

Shianne Gammon
And so I loved that. And then we came back and I just feel like now planning our event for our conference in March, I’m like, oh, we have ideas, we have things going on. These kids are gonna fully leave this year of their service, just great kids. And that is super fun to watch.

Sam Demma
So the people is the thing that kind of keeps you moving forward. Always. Where do you see yourself in five years from now?

Shianne Gammon
You know, great question.

Sam Demma
No pressure.

Shianne Gammon
No pressure.

Shianne Gammon
I would really, I don’t see myself leaving the position I’m in. Like, if we get, our team could grow, and so then maybe I wouldn’t have two orgs under me. Sure. But I see myself growing, especially BPA and Idaho even more, because FFA is its own beast, and it grows all the time anyways.

Shianne Gammon
And BPA will need a little bit more love and attention.

Sam Demma
Fair.

Shianne Gammon
So I see myself just really, really knowing my stuff. Just doing some good things for the org and growing our membership more and more. For Idaho and BPA, we’re like the 10th largest nationally and I would love to break higher into that.

Shianne Gammon
Like there are a couple states that we can catch pretty easily and I would love to do that and just honestly keep putting on some really great conferences, grow the networking, grow our alumni even more. I kind of see myself doing that and just really growing into that as well.

Sam Demma
One of the things a lot of educators mention on the show is that you can’t pour from an empty cup. You’re someone who has high energy and I know because I’ve worked with you and I can also feel it on this call. What do you do in your own time to ensure that your cup is full so you can show up energetic and optimistic and ready to serve others?

Shianne Gammon
I’m not always really great about keeping my cup full. It’s pouring into lots of different things, of course, but honestly, I will bring it back again to people. People fill my cup all the time. I, of course, am continually working on filling my own cup and making sure that I’m taking the space and time I need and maybe setting boundaries of that.

Shianne Gammon
I actually even forgot to take my computer home yesterday. So that’s a nice way of taking the time, get it set. So having those boundaries of that you don’t have to be available 24-7 to people, that it’s okay and that maybe when I leave here I’m taking off that hat and now I’m putting on my mom hat and after that’s off that I’m doing this and not that the mom hat’s ever fully off me but you know, just where the time is.

Shianne Gammon
But I think just spending time with people that help fill my cup is huge. That I’ve surrounded myself with really good people inside the workplace, outside the workplace, wherever it’s at, that I know I can go to to talk to, that we can just go have fun together, and that it honestly just resets it so quickly.

Shianne Gammon
But I think just finding, just enjoying what you’re doing is huge, that you have to really enjoy it. And that not every day is gonna be like, wow, I did something really, really exciting today. But it was still something that I loved doing and being a part of, and those small little wins every day are amazing as well.

Sam Demma
Were you involved in any CTSOs when you were a student?

Shianne Gammon
I was, so I was actually, I was a part of BPA. I’m trying to think of my school, it was a smaller school, so we didn’t have a ton of the orgs in there yet, but I was a part of BPA, and actually my mom was my BPA advisor.

Shianne Gammon
And she still is a BPA advisor, so it’s funny now because she comes to the conference that I’m putting on.

Sam Demma
Was she in Idaho last year?

Shianne Gammon
She was.

Sam Demma
She was?

Shianne Gammon
Yeah, and so she was like, oh, you’re kind of like my boss. I’m like, well, not really. But she’s going into year 30 of being a BPA advisor and teacher. It’s almost done. She’s got like two years left. She’s so close.

Shianne Gammon
But yes, I was a part of BPA growing up and it was super fun because me and some of my best friends who are still best friends to this day, competed together and we’re a team together. And so it was amazing just because it got us out of our small little Idaho town.

Shianne Gammon
We came to the big city of Boise for the state conference and you networked and you met people and then I was able to go to nationals and compete and meet more people. And some of those connections, you know, you still have to this day. So it was amazing to be a part of for sure.

Sam Demma
I can say firsthand as a guest, like the connections continue. I got a message from Dallin the other day and Job and I connect every now and then over Instagram. The community that shows up are just such nice people that are all striving to improve and do good things. So I hope that the conferences do grow and not that it’s about competing against other states, but go Idaho, go.

Shianne Gammon
Go Idaho, go.

Sam Demma
If there’s an educator listening to this who is just forgetting their why a little bit, they started this academic year feeling burnt out and we all have those moments, what advice would you give? Sometimes it’s helpful to hear advice from people that don’t know us, or almost like confide in people that don’t know who we are. Like, what advice do you think an educator who’s struggling right now could benefit from hearing?

Shianne Gammon
I think that if you’re struggling with your why, so one is making sure you’re taking care of you first, you know your co-workers and they’re having a great time but especially in teaching the why is obviously going to be the students and so maybe looking at especially if you’ve been teaching for more than just this is your first year but looking at students that you’ve had previously and seeing those success stories and the things they’re doing that are incredible, that you were a part of getting that kid to where they are, and that is huge.

Shianne Gammon
So just seeing that, or even honestly if it is the first year, and so they started in August and what success have they had so far now? Like maybe they’re making really great friends, maybe they are going reading better, doing math better, you know all those things as well, but maybe they’re just growing as a person and that in turn is helping shape and grow you as a teacher, as a person.

Shianne Gammon
It’s just sometimes it’s those little small wins. It’s not going to be a huge thing every time, but just seeing the little growth in those students is amazing to see. And sometimes you need to, you can’t see it for yourself, but looking at, that’s why I think especially past students, I know I’ve had one of my best friends is a teacher and she got a letter from a student recently and it was like we were all crying because we were like, oh my gosh, it is powerful that the things you’re doing are powerful, even if it doesn’t seem like it in a day to day.

Shianne Gammon
But just take that time to reflect and see and maybe seeing the teachers that have gotten you to where you’re at is huge and maybe a talk with them could help honestly and help reshape your why.

Sam Demma
Shianne, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show, share some of your ideas, talk about your educational journey. It’s been a pleasure having you on. Keep up the amazing work and I hope to connect again soon.

Shianne Gammon
Awesome, thank you so much, I really appreciate it.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Shianne Gammon

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 19, 2024 by CSTO Education Student Leadership Student Success 0

Katie Paulson – South Dakota CTSO Center Director 

Katie Paulson – South Dakota CTSO Center Director
About Katie Paulson

Katie Paulson is the South Dakota, Career & Technical Student Organization (CTSO) Center Director. Prior to this role, she has held positions in restaurant management, college admissions, and was the State Director for South Dakota SkillsUSA. As a product of many of the CTSO’s herself, she has a passion to grow and help thrive the great CTSO’s in South Dakota. Working closely with the State Directors of Educators Rising; Family, Career & Community Leaders of America; Future Business Leaders of America; FFA; Future Health Professionals HOSA; and SkillsUSA; to create professional development events and opportunities for growth at every turn. Katie has also found herself working with student members, board members, and industry to be a visionary for the work and growth of the future leaders of tomorrow.

Connect with Katie Paulson: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Career & Technical Student Organization (CTSO)
South Dakota SkillsUSA
Educators Rising
Family, Career & Community Leaders of America
Future Business Leaders of America
FFA
Future Health Professionals HOSA

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Katie Paulson, who is in the middle of the harvesting season in South Dakota. Katie, please, just introduce yourself.

Katie Paulson
Yeah, I’m Katie Paulson. I am the director of the South Dakota CTSO Center. CTSO stands for Career and Technical Student Organizations. I oversee six of our statewide CTSOs. So, FBLA, FFA, FCCLA, Educators Rising, HOSA, and SkillsUSA. So, really excited about kind of starting off our school year. We’re actually in full swing here with everything going on. I have been in this position for a little over two years.

Katie Paulson
I had the awesome opportunity to start this position when we kind of started the CTSO Center. So I have a lot of previous experiences in CTSOs, and I love the work that I get to do now.

Sam Demma
What is the work that you get to do now in supporting these amazing organizations?

Katie Paulson
Yes. So, I work to collaborate as much as possible. So, each one of our organizations are very different. They have a very different identity. They have a very different set of career clusters that they focus on. And different CTE courses in the high schools and the middle schools and even some of our technical colleges that they are the leadership aspect on top of that. And so, I get to work day in and day out with the directors and leaders of these organizations to really bring our similarities to the forefront and provide really awesome premier leadership opportunities for these students.

Katie Paulson
You know, like I said, whether it’s professional development or, you know, bringing in different trainings or speakers or providing opportunities via monetary donations, really working to just enhance and move forward and just get bigger and better with these organizations. These students, they do a lot, right? So students are typically involved in a lot of things on top of trying to have a part-time job and all those other things. And so these students really, they’re doing it all. And they’re hungry for leadership opportunities and really gaining the knowledge to these career paths and preparing themselves for college. So it’s also, I build a lot of partnerships with a lot of different companies.

Katie Paulson
But the cool thing is, is everybody is really in it for the same reason, right? We all need these new future leaders. And just being strategic and I guess creative on how we can make that work together. You’re providing experiences that change…

Sam Demma
…the trajectory of young people’s lives. The work is so valuable and so important. Did you have a positive experience being a part of a CTSO as a student yourself, or what actually brought you down this path in your own career?

Katie Paulson
I was very involved in different CTSOs throughout high school. I was in FFA all through high school, so in my high school, and it still really continues, if you’re in any sort of agriculture education course, you’re automatically an FFA student. So that’s a great partnership that the Ag education has with FFA. And so I learned a lot, you know, it was a very different chapter, you know, very male heavy, which is also to be a female in that it’s great because sometimes that’s where life takes you in a career too. I was also involved in FCCLA, so that is Family, leaders of America. So more so on family and consumer science education type stuff. A lot of community service type projects that I was involved in. But I was most deeply involved in FBLA, Future Business Leaders of America. I really found my niche there. I was a state officer my junior year of high school for South Dakota FBLA. And some of those, the state director at the time is still a mentor of mine. Some of those other state officers that I kind of had our year of service with, we still, you know, our professional lives still collide. So really great things come about my CTSO journey. And so when I, I work out of Lake Area Technical College in Watertown, South Dakota.

Katie Paulson
And when I started here, I was an admissions representative. So I was a college recruiter. And one of my additional duties as assigned was being the college Skills USA advisor. And I was so excited about that. My boss was actually dreading telling me that I was the advisor. And I was so excited because this was my, like, I love CTSOs. I love everything they’re about. I was so excited. And I think she was kind of shocked that I was as excited as I was. But that led me into, a year after that, I became the state director for South Dakota Skills USA. And then the Department of Education kind of worked together with the different colleges around South Dakota to host these state director positions, and they wanted to put it all together under one umbrella of a CTSO center. And so when this idea came about, I knew that it was really something that I’m very passionate about. I love all of the CTSOs and just to do the work and to enhance and to be there to help the other state directors and really move these organizations forward was something I knew I’d be very passionate about. So that’s really my journey through CTSOs and the influence has been huge, tremendous on my life. But just working, getting to work with a lot of the other alumni too, to really in their professional lives, how great these CTSOs can really be a pipeline for future workers and leaders is truly amazing to be a part of.

Sam Demma
When you were a state officer yourself, can you think of a moment where your advisor or a mentor in your life really changed the way you saw yourself or how much you believed in your abilities or just a moment that was very pivotal in your development and what do you think that caring adult did that had such a big difference for you?

Katie Paulson
Yeah, you know, there are actually quite a few. So I was super lucky to be in a high school where I don’t know how our organizations were funded, but we didn’t have to like fight tooth and nail to fundraise. And I know that’s always a deterrent for a lot of these organizations, and it’s just such a big weight on these advisors.

Katie Paulson
So the fact that we had to just very minimally fundraise, but our advisors were always like, you’re going to do the best you can do. You’re going to win at the state conference, and you’re going to go to nationals. And you’re going to, you know, kick butt, and it’s going to be amazing.

Katie Paulson
And so just the fact of like, not like, well, you got to raise $3,000 before you can even think about making it to nationals. That was never a conversation. And so, and that’s really what we deal with a little bit today. But I remember being at the school until 9, 10 o’clock at night.

Katie Paulson
Our advisors were there helping us. We just, the crazy things that we came up with, like even running for state office, we had a campaign manager and you had a whole campaign. I still have my stuff. Don’t monkey around. I gave out lollipops with monkeys on them.

Katie Paulson
I mean, it’s just, it was just a lot of memories, but really just having advisors that were so supportive in your ideas, but also like in their time. Like I think about that now and I’m like, that would be hard for me to stay here till 9 p.m. at night when you have family things going, like to help your students. And I mean, it was multiple…

Katie Paulson
…nights. Like we were there all the time. And so, yeah, just the support that I look back on was like, I probably took that for granted a little bit, like the amount of extra time that they put into us, because they really did believe in us. And I did, you know, we made it to nationals and multiple different things. And like those experiences were absolutely amazing as well.

Sam Demma
It sounds like the belief or the support in terms of kind words and time is one of the ways that these mentors and advisors played a big role in supporting you growing up. How do you think you build relationships with young people today? Times are different, things are a little different. How do you build rapport and support young people?

Katie Paulson
Yeah, and you’re right. It’s very different. And I think especially with our teacher landscape right now, there’s a lot of pressure on teachers, not a ton of support. South Dakota has one of the lowest teacher wages in the nation. And so putting that also on advisors…

Katie Paulson
…every school operates a little bit differently on what like an advisor gets for a stipend when they’re a CTSO advisor. And so I really, you know, I try to really relate to our leaders and I get the privilege of working…

Katie Paulson
…with the state officer teams of all six of our organizations multiple times throughout the year. And they are just amazing, right? So I get to do like a first training with them the summer after they are elected. And then, so that’s in June. And then I take them to our legislature at our Capitol during our session.

Katie Paulson
So that’s in February. And then just seeing them, I attend all of their state conferences. And so just seeing their transformation during their service year, I think is super important. But I love to connect with them also, you know, whenever they’re doing other things, right? So if they ever come to campus for something else, or, you know, they’re involved in a…

Katie Paulson
…lot of things, right? I try very hard just to be someone who they can go to as well. I’m not a direct rapport for them or any of them actually, but I just want to be someone that they know when they’re somewhere, to shake hands and to cheer them on and kind of be their support, encourage them to attend their national conferences and do all those things. Because really, the time flies so fast.

Katie Paulson
You know, these opportunities, they really are there for a second. And so just really trying to be with them during their journeys and help them out. And it’s crazy how much I see them outside of their roles and their organizations, just in the different circles that they’re also involved in. Just really being a support system and somebody always cheering them on has been my way of really continuing to encourage them.

Katie Paulson
Hopefully, that does work and hopefully, they are super supportive alumni. That’s just hoping it all comes full circle is really my goal for being their support system.

Sam Demma
Tell me about the transition you made into this role two years ago. How did this chapter of your life unfold and come about?

Katie Paulson
Yeah, so it was very different…

Katie Paulson
…because it was a brand new role. I was new to it. Nobody really knew. There were a lot of places we could take it. And there were some skeptics. The Department of Education secretary…

Katie Paulson
…at the time was one of them. She’s a huge FFA advocate alumni, had been a past state director. And so she was nervous about keeping the identity of each CTSO alive, right? Because they are so different in what they are…

Katie Paulson
…Yes, their foundations of leadership and teamwork and professional development and all of that great stuff are there, but they’re all very different in a lot of components. And so how are we going to keep the identity of those alive? And so that was really my big telling…

Katie Paulson
…Like, I racked my brain a lot. I listened to a lot of different podcasts and books and some different things. But what we ended up doing was we brought in a… just like a moderator, essentially to form a one- to two-year strategic plan with my state directors, the Department of Education team. And I think it was really great. Some frustrations came out, some initial, you know, thoughts of like, if this happens, this would be bad. Or, you know, if this is what we can do, great.

Katie Paulson
Do we have funds to do this? Maybe not. You know, like, how big can we go? And so that was really a great starting point and I think we’ve advanced maybe not exactly how that plan was laid out, but really how it best fits us right now. So we’re kind of on a good roll.

Katie Paulson
I have a great team and we’re all kind of working through it together, right? There’s a lot of teacher turnover, even some open jobs. And so, filling those gaps and really being there for the advisors, because without advisors, none of us would be anything, right? And so, trying to fill into them, but also trying to get to the school boards and the higher up, like to create the importance of this within their minds and to really maybe help adjust budgets…

Katie Paulson
…and things like that. We talked to legislators a lot, those types of things. And so I think we’re still learning for sure. And just the different landscapes of the economy as well as like the education outlay of these teachers and advisors…

Katie Paulson
…we’ll continue to navigate kind of where we go. But I think our organizations are very strong and we just continue to build industry partnerships and that has been huge for us. These industries really, they come out in full force. They open their pocketbooks for us.

Katie Paulson
They do a lot of great things, because again, the money is super tight. And fundraisers are, you know, it’s just crazy what kind of needs to happen in a year for a student. And so we kind of take it, you know, kind of, I would say quarter by quarter, honestly.

Katie Paulson
But I do meet with my state director team monthly. And I do, they bring great things to the table. You know, all of their organizations have different maybe issues, fires, or like potential. And so we try to wrap that all up and like, what can we do to help all of us? And so it’s ever changing, which is also awesome. No two days at my desk are really the same, which is great in some aspects and pretty challenging in others.

Katie Paulson
But, you know, for what we’re doing and what we provide, it is so worth it, you know, in the end, to really keep fighting for what’s best for our organizations.

Sam Demma
The work you’re doing is amazing. And it sounds from how much passion you have while you talk about it, that it feels fulfilling and meaningful for you. And I think that’s what matters most, that everyone is doing work that they believe is important and that gets them excited because then you end up doing your best work. And I know that the thousands of members among the different organizations and the CTSOs within South Dakota. That’s why they are…

Sam Demma
…different so that every student can find that pathway that best suits their unique skills and abilities and talents. When you think about the future, what are you excited about? Like, you know, we just started the last quarter of this year, coming up into the fall and the spring, looking forward to?

Katie Paulson
I’m super excited just for all of our CTSOs. So we’re all growing, even though FFA and South Dakota is planning to celebrate their 100th year in a couple of years. Yes. And so been around for a long time, really a cornerstone organization for South Dakota, but just like they’re still growing.

Katie Paulson
And so it’s amazing to see kind of what’s all happening in schools. We’re trying really hard to get in front of, like I said, administration for schools to really see the importance of our organizations and to really just help them, you know, financially if they can, but also give their advisors a little bit of grace on, like, attending these events, right? You don’t just get the professional development and the teamwork and the camaraderie…

Katie Paulson
…and all of the connections by staying in your classroom. And so just really moving the needle forward on how important CTSOs are for schools and their CT programs and their graduates. You know, there’s a lot of research that shows any more, especially like in South Dakota, our graduates within five years after high school graduation, it’s like a higher number, like 80% of them move back to their hometown around like 50 miles. So it’s really great, yes, and like the teacher pipeline and all of those things for these communities to really build these leaders in high school, send them to college, bring them…

Katie Paulson
…back when they become professionals, and have them build their families in these communities. And so very important kind of the work that we do on that front to really understand like putting, you know, effort and time and skills into these students is important for these local communities. They’re not just going to lose them all, you know, when they go to college and things like that. So very cool stuff. But yes, I mean, our job and our the landscape of kind of what that looks like will be continuing to change. But we’re trying our best to really get these students back to their hometowns and get them…

Sam Demma
…into careers and helping them build families. The work, again, I said it a few times, the work is so exciting and you’re doing a phenomenal job and I hope that all the CTSOs continue to grow and make a significant contribution to their members. I hope that at some point we’ll cross paths and until we do keep serving and keep up the amazing work.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much for coming on the show to talk a little bit about your own journey professionally, your experience with CTSOs, and some of the ways you think we can better connect and serve young people today.

Katie Paulson
Thank you so much, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Katie Paulson

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 17, 2024 by CSTO Education Executive Director Student Leadership 0

Stephen Hoyland – Assistant Superintendent Education Services at Battle River School Division

Stephen Hoyland – Assistant Superintendent Education Services at Battle River School Division
About Stephen Hoyland

Stephen Hoyland is the Assistant Superintendent -Education Services at Battle River School Division in Camrose, Alberta. Over his career, Stephen has taught Grades 4 to 12 ranging in subjects from Art, English, Social Studies and French.
Stephen was a school administrator for thirteen years. He took on the role of Director of Human Resources for three years and now is in his second year as Assistant Superintent – Education Services.

Throughout his career, Stephen has worked closely with students to promote their voice and ideas through student councils. Stephen believes that teachers succeed by listening to and learning from their students, as their voices shape meaningful impact in our schools. In order to make a difference in the lives of students and teachers, Stephen strives to be relationship focused, collaborative, energetic and hopeful.

Connect with Stephen Hoyland: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Battle River School Division

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend, Stephen Hoyland. Stephen is the Assistant Superintendent of Educational Services with the Battle River School Division. Stephen, thank you so much for coming on the show here today.

Stephen Hoyland
Oh, Sam, I’m so excited. Thanks for having me. It means a lot just to spend some time with you today.

Sam Demma
I’m so excited to chat with you. Did you know when you were a student yourself that one day you’d be working supporting staff and students?

Stephen Hoyland
You know, for when I was a kid, no. When I actually did become a teacher, a lot of my friends that I went to high school with, they couldn’t believe that I was the guy that actually became the teacher from the class. I knew, Sam, like I had some great teachers and that made some impact in me when I was young.

Stephen Hoyland
I remember I was in grade six and I was struggling with my spelling, and the teacher sent me to a remedial room, and I just remember how that felt—like I was being pulled out. The teacher in there, after about a week, he came up to me, and this wouldn’t be said now in a class, but he said, “Stephen, are you stupid?” And I—it was a shock. And I said, “Pardon?” He goes, “Like, honestly, are you stupid?” And I said, “No.” And he goes, “Exactly. Don’t ever, ever forget that. And I never want to see you back here.”

Stephen Hoyland
For me, that was one of those moments where I went, okay. I wasn’t expecting a teacher to say that. Like I said, a teacher would never say that now, but for me, it was pivotal. I saw somebody that believed that I could actually do what I needed to do. That was one of those moments where I went, okay, I can build on this, and I can have faith in myself. And yeah, in grade six, I really started to realize, hey, I can do this.

Stephen Hoyland
I had some teachers along the lines that really challenged me in high school and made me realize my potential. And so what I did, Sam, is I love challenges. When I finished high school, I came from a small town in Alberta where nobody spoke French, and I wanted to be bilingual. I just—I wanted to be bilingual.

Stephen Hoyland
I wanted to be able to be that Canadian that could speak French and English. So I enrolled in what was called the Faculty Saint-Jean through the University of Alberta. I took my degree there, and I did not know hardly any French. I was just someone that was supported by a lot of different people, whether they were from Quebec or Francois-Breton. They really helped me and made me realize that, okay, if I have a challenge, if I have a dream, there are going to be people there that can help me. And yeah, I became bilingual, and that really opened up many doors for me in my career.

Sam Demma
You said you love challenges. Was it always like that for you, or where did that come from?

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, it has always been—I love challenges. Coming from a small town, knowing that post-secondary was the key to opening a lot of doors, I just knew that if I wanted to do something that was going to be enriching and bring me happiness, I needed to set goals. Setting the goal to become bilingual, even though I hardly knew any French—I took three years of French in high school—and deciding, okay, I want to become bilingual, immerse myself, go to Quebec, take university there, and travel the world. That mindset of creating new goals was huge for me.

Stephen Hoyland
When I became a teacher, I started thinking outside of the box. I began teaching new courses, courses I had absolutely no reference to, and learned from that. I just kept on pushing myself to do what I needed to do. Eventually, Sam, it came to going to different schools and being identified as, “Hey, are you interested in administration? We think you’d be a great fit.” I threw myself out there. One thing I said when I was young in my career was, “I love being a teacher. I don’t want to be an administrator.” Then I became an assistant principal—I loved it. After a while, I decided, “Okay, I’m going to become a principal.” During that time, I also pursued my master’s, which I said I never wanted to go back to university for. But I learned from that and kept setting those goals. That was important.

Sam Demma
How important do you think it is for young people to set goals? It sounds like it had a big impact on you.

Stephen Hoyland
You know, when you’re young—I mean middle school—you’re really enjoying your friends, your peer groups, and at that point, the goals aren’t at the forefront. But I really do believe that if you have a bit of an idea of what’s going to make you happy, what’s going to give you contentment in life, then focus on a goal at that age. Once you get into high school, I think this can be difficult for young people too. Often, family or neighbors are asking, “What are you going to do when you’re done school? What do you want to do?” That puts a lot of pressure on kids.

Stephen Hoyland
I think if kids have a bit of an idea of what they might like to do, that makes a big difference. Starting with a small goal, and then life experiences can really build upon that and direct you into something that’s going to bring you happiness.

Sam Demma
You’ve offered an insight into your own story of the goal you set. Typically, when we think about goals, we think about students’ career-path-related goals. But your goal was to learn French. You didn’t say, “I want to be a French teacher,” or “I want to teach a language in the future.” You said, “There’s a skill out there that I’m curious about, and I want to improve at it and learn.” And it opened doors for you. I think if we can encourage more young people to set goals related to their curiosities or just building skills, the building of a skill will open doors or pathways in the future.

Sam Demma
Most of the time, when you become proficient or good at something, you can add value—and we need people that can add value. And I still suck at French. So if I met your grade six teacher, he would probably be like, “Sam, are you stupid?”

Stephen Hoyland
Oh, and you know, yeah, and it’s—you’ve nailed it. It’s just about finding those things, those skill sets, that bring you that fulfillment and, at the same time, challenge you. Run with it and grow as a person.

Sam Demma
There’s a book that I was recently recommended by my godfather. I played golf with him and my dad recently, and he manages lots of people in his role. So I was asking him about leadership and managing others, and he told me to check out this book called Principles by Ray Dalio. He said it was foundational in the way he leads his teams.

Sam Demma
I was reading the book, and one of the statements stuck out to me. It said, “The success doesn’t come from achieving the goal; it comes from struggling well in the pursuit of the goal.” And I thought, you know, there are so many times in my life where I’ve reached the outcome that I thought was going to make me feel good. And when I hit the thing or achieve the quote-unquote goal, I actually felt kind of lost—like, because now I’m not struggling towards anything anymore.

Sam Demma
In your own journey, do you have any other goals? What are things that are causing you to struggle these days? What’s pulling Stephen forward?

Stephen Hoyland
Oh, that’s such a great question. In my role right now, Sam, I’m responsible for the learning that takes place in our school division. Over the last year, I’ve learned a lot about math and numeracy. As I said, I learned French and then became a humanities teacher. Now, in my new role, I am learning an awful lot around math and numeracy. I had to create some goals for myself last year.

Stephen Hoyland
One of them was to become more proficient at understanding what math and numeracy are and how I can support teachers. Over the last year, I’ve really dived into data and become a lot more data-informed with my team. Now I can look at results and say, “Oh my gosh, take a look at where these results are. This is what we need to do.”

Stephen Hoyland
So for me, as a goal right now, it is to better understand how I can support students to become better math and numeracy learners in our school division—and, with that, what I need to do to support our teachers. So right now, math and numeracy are something I am totally immersed in, learning more than I’ve ever known.

Sam Demma
Wow, that’s awesome, man. I think those are skills that benefit anybody, no matter what pathway they pursue in the future as well.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Sam Demma
One of the things that stood out to me when we collaborated with some of your schools and with Rayanne, your colleague, was that all the decisions you were making were based on data. And I think it’s so important that we make decisions based on data, not our personal assumptions or opinions.

Sam Demma
In fact, I’m making all these connections because now I’m reading this book. But this gentleman, Ray, was running a hedge fund, and that was the majority of his career. The decisions they were making were based on all the data they collected on the stock markets and different companies. They would input equations that would take all the previous data of years of financial numbers and projections and say, “If we made this decision based on all the previous data, what would our outcome be?”

Sam Demma
Then people would argue about it, saying, “Well, no, we need to do this.” Their philosophy was, “We have constructive disagreements, and then we test our ideas on data. Whatever the best outcome the data shows us, we move forward with that.” I think that’s kind of how you operate and how Rayanne and your team operate. Has the data surprised you in any way, shape, or form based on student needs or things that are happening in the schools?

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, it has. There have definitely been some great surprises. Last year, we created a new survey that we shared with parents, guardians, students, teachers—basically anybody that was a stakeholder. We put it out there and had a great response. There was a lot of positive feedback around where our school division has been and what we were doing to move forward.

Stephen Hoyland
It was kind of an affirmation of the positive things that have been happening in our school division for probably the last several years. Then there was also that voice saying, “Hey, have you considered this?” That’s the point, Sam, where we’re at right now—like, okay, we’ve done some really good things, but now it’s time to look at what other things we have to try. That came out of the data as well.

Stephen Hoyland
The thing I’ve learned with it is, if you’re going to ask people’s opinions—if you’re going to say, “We need this data”—you have to do something with it. You have to let everybody know that you’re actually doing something with it. Because it’s meaningless if you just take it in and don’t share those results or the next steps. That’s the biggest takeaway for me: if you want people’s opinions, if you want their voice, you have to make sure you value it and follow through with it.

Sam Demma
We have interacted three or four times now—three, maybe two or three times on Zoom calls, and once in person. There’s been a couple of consistent things every time: we’ve always laughed in some capacity, we’ve always smiled, and we’ve always shared stories. I’m wondering—you strike me as someone who’s very optimistic and someone who looks for the positive sides of things in life, because it is a choice. Is that something you taught yourself to do? Was it passed down from your parents? In a world filled with challenges, we could choose to focus on anything. You hold this really positive energy—where does it come from?

Stephen Hoyland
You know, yeah, I definitely grew up in a home where there was lots of love. There was always support from my parents. And then I married a wonderful, wonderful high school sweetheart, I guess you could say. We’ve tried to create a family where our kids know there’s always love, and we try to be optimistic about everything.

Stephen Hoyland
One thing I try to do, Sam, every day when I walk into this building is—people ask me how I’m doing, and I’m honest, and I’m usually excellent. And I’m excellent because my drive in could have been a wonderful sunrise, I had a great coffee, I listened to some great songs—I listened to The Lumineers this morning, man, that woke me up, it was fantastic. Just finding those little nuggets in life that really bring you contentment, because life is good. There’s a lot of great things. If you can find that and be that example for other people, you can spread that optimism and that energy.

Stephen Hoyland
It’s much easier to have a smile than a frown. And you know what? Hurt is contagious too, but people need energy, people need positivity. If I can come across as authentic—which is my goal—I want people to understand that there’s a lot of good things happening in life, and I try to find that every day.

Sam Demma
I think it also models the behavior for students. Like you said, it’s contagious, and especially as an adult or a teacher. I remember some of my teachers—I’d walk into the room and hear, “Good morning, how’s everyone doing?” Some kids were still waking up, but I’d reply, “Good morning, sir, how are you?” It really wakes you up.

Sam Demma
I’ve even had experiences in my own life where I was feeling upset or frustrated, and I walked onto a bus where the driver was singing music and cracking jokes. The way other people show up and the energy they carry has an impact on how I feel. I think it’s the same in the workplace or in school buildings. When you think of people who have had a big impact on you, who comes to mind? I’m assuming your parents, it sounds like. But have you had any other mentors or role models who have really shaped the way you think about things? When you think about your own journey, who are the people whose names you can’t leave out?

Stephen Hoyland
I was really fortunate growing up in a small town, so I got to know a lot of people who made a difference in my life—neighbors who were like grandparents. But as time went by, I’ve had the privilege of working with some wonderful, wonderful teachers and other administrators—assistant principals who have given me great inspiration and affirmation around the work we were doing together.

Stephen Hoyland
For me, it’s about being part of a team and surrounding yourself with people who challenge you, inspire you, and feed you with their energy and great ideas. Right now, I’m on a team that fills my bucket every day, brings me energy, and challenges me to think and do better. So to answer your question, it’s surrounding yourself with people who lift you up and are open to great suggestions—while you’re also open to theirs—and you work collaboratively. And honestly, my kids. I have three kids, and they give me a lot of inspiration, great ideas, and they inspire me to do better.

Sam Demma
One of the things my godfather told me while golfing was this: “You have to create an environment that encourages mistakes but doesn’t tolerate not learning from them.” So when a mistake is made, it’s like, “Congratulations, let’s talk about this,” and then you have an open conversation.

Sam Demma
In your own career, are there any quote-unquote “mistakes” or learning lessons that have been instrumental for you—aside from the fact that you cheer for the wrong hockey team? Is there anything else that sticks out?

Stephen Hoyland
You know, yeah, over my career, I’ve definitely made some mistakes. I’m just trying to pinpoint something… Well, you know what? It kind of ties to mistakes and challenges. I wanted to become bilingual, so I went to the Faculté Saint-Jean. After a year, I realized, “I can’t do this. I just cannot. I don’t have what it takes.” And my dad said, “Well, you know what, son? If it’s something you can’t do, then look at other options.”

Stephen Hoyland
So what I did was I applied to another faculty that was all in English. At that time, I thought it was a great idea. I got accepted and was ready to leave the Faculté Saint-Jean. But something pivotal happened. I went to Quebec for a summer. I went to university there for three months, and during that time, I realized, “I can do this. I do have what it takes.”

Stephen Hoyland
During that summer, I was writing letters back to the university, saying, “Please, I don’t want to leave. I want to stay. This is where I want to be.” Thankfully, I was able to stay. At the time, I thought it was too much, but stepping back and reflecting helped me realize I could do it. Sometimes you need to put things in perspective and understand you’re not alone—there are people who will help you. Part of it is believing in yourself.

Stephen Hoyland
What happened, Sam, is I actually took an extra year to get my first degree. That’s because it was all in French, and I look back at that now—it was probably the best thing I ever did.

Sam Demma
Year well spent.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, it sure was.

Sam Demma
Your role now is having such a great impact on so many—you’re supporting staff, whole school buildings, and students and their families. What is your leadership style? How do you believe you effectively lead other people?

Stephen Hoyland
You know, I really believe, Sam, that it’s about the team. I believe I need to be in contact with administrators, principals, and assistant principals. I need to be talking with teachers. For me, it’s about getting their voice and weighing their ideas with my own thoughts. I want to consider what I think is best versus what’s practical.

Stephen Hoyland
For me, my approach is transparency. To be transparent, I need to listen and collaborate with those people who are walking the walk and learning every day. Being very collaborative is the basis of how I lead.

Sam Demma
Outside of the work you do with the school board, what do you do personally to ensure your own cup is full so you’re showing up laughing, smiling, and supporting others?

Stephen Hoyland
One thing my wife and I truly love to do is hiking. We live on the prairies, but we have beautiful access to land where we can hike. On those hikes, we’ll see elk, deer, and all sorts of birds and animals. That really grounds me—it brings me peace and contentment.

Stephen Hoyland
Spending time with my family is also huge. My kids live in Edmonton and Calgary, so we visit them as much as possible. That brings a sense of connection and fulfillment. Talking a lot with my wife is important too—having someone who understands life and listens to you makes a big difference.

Stephen Hoyland
And one more thing, Sam—I’ve been trying meditation. I’ve been doing it for about two months now, and I’m a huge fan of it.

Sam Demma
Ah, that’s awesome, man. I’m so glad it’s going well.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, it’s great.

Sam Demma
I’ve had good experiences myself, and when things feel more challenging, I notice I haven’t meditated in a while. Maybe there’s a correlation.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, I totally get that. Meditation is very peaceful—it’s kind of like a reboot.

Sam Demma
Yeah, it helps you. One of my friends said meditation is not about calming your mind, it’s about losing your mind. Recognizing that some of your thoughts aren’t even yours, and you can let them pass by.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, absolutely.

Sam Demma
This whole conversation felt like a nice reset or reboot for me. I appreciate you taking the time to share your ideas, philosophies, and stories. I hope we have another chance to cross paths soon. And when we do, hopefully, there won’t be any bears or elk around—I don’t care much for those things. But keep up the great work, my friend. It’s a pleasure to chat.

Stephen Hoyland
Thanks so much, Sam, and thanks for making a difference in so many lives.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Stephen Hoyland

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 10, 2024 by Battle School Division Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success 0

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School
About Martina Fasano 

Martina Fasano began her teaching career in 2003 at YCDSB’s St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School. She also taught grade 8 at Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School before returning to the secondary panel and eventually serving as the department head of Canadian and World Studies at St. Maximilian Kolbe, where she taught economics, law, and history. As a vice-principal, Martina has had the honour and privilege of serving both the Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy as well as the St. Brother Andre Catholic High School communities prior to being appointed as the principal of St. Elizabeth.

Martina has served on various committees at the Board level, including the YSCPC (York Secondary Catholic President’s Council), Drug and Alcohol Awareness (DAW), and the Covid-19 Logistics and Planning Committee. She was also a member of the committee that developed teacher resources for the history curriculum revisions which focused on the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Calls to Action to embed Indigenous history into the grade 10 history curriculum in Ontario. As a member of the Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association (OHASSTA), Martina also developed curriculum-based teacher modules on behalf of the Ontario Ministry of Education as part of a targeted project about the role of school trustees.

Throughout her career, Martina’s passion for engaging students has been at the forefront of her efforts toward forward thinking curriculum development in the social sciences, student leadership, school-based digital tool implementation, arts education, school/student safety, and data-informed school improvement. She has also had the opportunity to work with music industry professionals in the capacity of musician, author, social media manager, and public relations strategy. These experiences have allowed Martina to connect student learning to the world beyond the classroom, and bring exciting and dynamic opportunities to the school communities that she has served.

Connect with Martina Fasano: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School

Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School

St. Maximilian Kolbe

Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy

St. Brother Andre Catholic High School

St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by my good friend, Martina Fasano. Martina and I met just over a year ago now. She began her teaching career just over 20 years ago, and she is now a phenomenal principal of a school in the York Catholic District School Board. I’m going to allow her to introduce herself.

Sam Demma
Martina, please share a little bit about who you are with the audience.

Martina Fasano
Thank you so much for having me, Sam. Yeah, it’s been almost over a year now, which before you did your first gig here at St. E’s. So yes, I’m the principal here at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School, home of the Regional Arts Program as well, and having a great time.

Sam Demma
So you have one of the most interactive offices I’ve ever walked into in a school building. There are records hanging on the wall, guitars, and interesting objects on the shelves. Tell me a little bit about your own involvement in the arts that makes you so passionate about being at St. Elizabeth.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely, so I’ve been myself a musician probably since I was about maybe in the fifth grade or so. I’m not counting the drum set that I got when I was about four years old. But so that part is something very near and dear to my heart. Arts education in general for me was really something that helped shape who I am and the self-discipline that came from it. It was an even playing field, is what I would call it.

You start out where I was very fortunate. I was in a school board in Toronto, a Toronto Catholic as a student, and we started our music education programs there in grade 6 with a full band program. So that was the first time I had actually played music in a group, and you basically had a chance to start from scratch and learn an instrument, practice, and do all those things.

And I figured out very quickly that if you just practice and you play all the right notes at the right time, then everything sounds nice. So that’s kind of a metaphor too, for life in general, which is kind of where I took it. I started out as a saxophone player—that was my first instrument—together with piano. And then by the time I got to be a teenager, I added guitar in there because I was listening to a lot of rock, metal, and grunge at the time. It was the height of the grunge era, let’s say, with Nirvana and Pearl Jam and all those guys.

But definitely something that I carried into adulthood, into university. You jump from high school into post-secondary or into “What am I going to do with my life?” To quote Dee Snider from Twisted Sister, “What are you going to do with your life?” We want to rock, right? So I looked at going into the music industry from a more—not just the creative aspect—but looked into the business side of things.

That didn’t really resonate with me because I wasn’t doing anything that I enjoyed in my post-secondary program. I started out in business administration, and I thought, “I can’t do this for the rest of my life. I’m bored. There’s no creativity happening anywhere.” People work in cubicles. I can’t do that. And that’s why my office looks the way it does. It needs to have things in it that bring joy, make me happy, and serve as conversation pieces.

Because when a student walks in, for me, this is just my workspace. But for a student, especially if they’ve never been in trouble, they assume the principal is there to get you in trouble. So I don’t see it that way. But I noticed very early on in my career as an administrator, they see the title that’s on the door. And I noticed that having a lot of these little things around helped kind of put them at ease because they were conversation pieces.

So we get to that before we get to why the student was there. And most often, the student actually is not here because they’re in trouble. So it’s kind of a reputation thing—people think you only get sent to the principal’s office when you’re in trouble—but we’re dealing a lot more with supporting students as opposed to discipline.

Sam Demma
Well, you’re also the only principal that has a record on the wall with the plaque and their name on it. What is it all about?

Martina Fasano
So, the one that’s hanging in my office was actually when I left a school I was at, St. Maximilian Colby. The Canadian World Studies Department re-recorded Hotel California and changed all the lyrics as a goodbye gift. So that’s what’s hanging on the wall. And the little plaque actually has all of the changed lyrics, which are actually quite funny if you read them.

And it’s interesting because I do have a real one at home that 17-year-old me probably would have been really, really happy about. And, you know, wouldn’t have believed me if I said, “You’re going to end up getting a platinum record, but it’s not for what you think.” You’re not going to be in the band, you’re not going to be one of the producers, and you’re not going to be one of the managers, but it’s going to happen by way of your involvement in the music industry somehow.

And I would have laughed at you and said, “Sure, okay, whatever.” But I ended up being a ghostwriter for a rock musician, and that was the gift. The gift was the platinum record from the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack because the band that the artist originally recorded with, The Runaways, which is Joan Jett’s first band, had a number-one song, Cherry Bomb, which went to number one when Guardians of the Galaxy came out as a movie.

So, the record went platinum, and that person that I ghostwrote for was in that band. They got the platinum record and decided to also get me one because I was working on her book at the time. It was just about finished when that happened.

So that’s kind of cool. You’re right, I don’t know of any other principals that maybe came to education for the same reason. For me, it was like, “Why do you want to work with young people? Why do you want to specifically be around teenagers all day?” I get that question a lot.

And for me, it’s quite easy. There’s an energy to young people and a hope to young people that they naturally have that unfortunately, for a long time, schools have kind of almost stifled. And I thought in my wisdom as a young person myself when I made the decision, “If I can maybe change the way schools work, maybe it doesn’t have to be boring, maybe it doesn’t have to be something where there’s all these expectations, instead of actually cultivating a lifelong love of learning.”

Because when you look at, “My mom really wants me to do this and go to university to have this job, and I don’t want to do it, and I don’t know how to tell her,” I’ve had quite a few conversations with students and their parents about that. The fact that I switched my major halfway through from business administration to fine arts cultural studies, talk about a complete polar opposite.

But you have to find what brings you joy. You can make lots of money and maybe even be powerful in some cases doing something that you don’t enjoy. But you’re not going to be as good at it, in my view. You’re not going to be as fulfilled as a human being. And in the end, for me, it was like, I would like to be for young people what I would have needed at the age that I was at all along the way.

And that goes for why I became a vice principal or a principal as well. What did I need when I was a first-year teacher? So that’s what you try to be for somebody else.

Sam Demma
What do you think first-year teachers need to hear, specifically ones that are starting in the education space today, with so much change, especially coming out of the pandemic?

Martina Fasano
That they don’t need to be afraid to take a risk. That it is supposed to be difficult, that all great things are, but that they don’t have to do school and classrooms the way maybe they experienced and to not be afraid to be different.

Because right now, in my personal view, we’ve been doing education wrong for a long time. We have all the great people in the buildings, we have all the great programming in the buildings, we have a curriculum that helps us open those doors. But we are also based on a model that came to be in the 1800s as part of the Industrial Revolution.

Public education was meant to get everyone in line and trained to go to work. Sitting in rows, being obedient, and doing repetitive drills—memorization and all these things. Maybe for that world, those were the skills that were needed. But right now, we live in a world that schools haven’t caught up with yet, if that makes sense.

A perfect example: I was at the Billie Eilish concert last night, and you have the stereotype that young people are lazy, not passionate about things. I saw about 20,000 young people who were quite passionate about what they were seeing. They weren’t bored, they weren’t lazy—they were jumping up and down. The place was almost thunderous.

And in my view, I thought to myself, “This is what school should be like with all these young people in a building. Why are we trying to make everybody so quiet?” It doesn’t make sense to me. So part of being here at St. Elizabeth and having the Regional Arts Program here is that you get to showcase that. You get to see people being creative all day long.

Even if someone’s not in the Regional Arts Program, they still get the benefit of being in that space where creativity is free to flow and to happen. It has an impact on the children that surround those kids that are in the program.

So that’s definitely what I say to a first-year teacher: Don’t be afraid to take the risk. Don’t be afraid to be authentic. The students will see right through you if you’re not.

Sam Demma
I perform at many schools, and I intentionally call it a performance for the same reason you think students shouldn’t be quiet. Like, it needs to be an experience where they have a say and a voice in it, and it speaks to them on an emotional level—not just an educational level—and evokes emotion.

So many times, I’ll finish a speech or a performance, and one of the teachers will walk over and go, “Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry that the students were so loud.” And I say, “No, I encourage it! I egg them on throughout the performance. I want that. Yes, this is what we want. We don’t want them to just sit there with their legs crossed and hands on their lap, just looking in silence.”

Martina Fasano
Yep. You don’t learn if you’re being passive; there’s no learning happening. I distinctly remember being in my second year of teaching, and I was teaching English at the time. The play we were doing was Romeo and Juliet, Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet.

I always had a problem with Shakespeare being taught the way it was. I used to say, “Us reading Shakespeare like a book is the same as showing children a movie by reading the screenplay.” It’s a play—you’re not supposed to be reading it; you’re supposed to be acting it out.

So, I had a relatively rowdy class. I remember that distinctly. I said, “I can’t do this to these kids. The things my department gave me to use, this is not what we’re going to do. We can’t do this. These children will not only get nothing out of this and miss the complete point of the story, but you cannot expect a young person to want to read that old English text as a dramatic piece and not ask them to act it out and see what’s going on.”

So, we constructed this day where we said, “First, we have to figure out what this section of the play is about. Where are we? What’s going on? Romeo and Juliet meet at the party.” So, we basically said, “We’re going to make it a masquerade party.”

We made masks and everything else. I had the vice principal, bless her heart, come by. There was all this noise coming out of my classroom. She knocks on the door, and I opened it, horrified. I thought, “Oh my God, someone must have complained, or something happened.”

I explained, “We’re acting it out because it’s a play.” And there was this pause, and I thought, “This is it; I’m in trouble.” But then she said, “I’m so glad that all this noise is coming out of here because it means the kids are learning. Keep it up and have a nice day.”

The kids thought they were in trouble too! What does that say? If we’re learning stuff and having a good time, we must be in trouble? So, as a classroom teacher, I made it a point to do things that are fun. You have to because if you don’t, you don’t learn. Even if some of them are cheesy or purposely cheesy, they’ll remember them because they’re memorable.

Sam Demma
I couldn’t agree more. I absolutely love that you shared that story, and I hope the educator listening to this reshapes how they think about student engagement. There’s a phenomenal book I’ve been reading called The Advantage by a guy named Patrick Lencioni. He talks about the difference between really successful organizations and ones that fall flat on their face.

One thing he mentions is cohesion among the leadership team. It could be cohesion in a classroom or a staff room. He says the whole team needs to weigh in their thoughts and have constructive disagreements. If the whole team doesn’t weigh in, they won’t buy in.

So, if there’s no weigh-in, there’s no buy-in. That stuck out in my head. When you think about a classroom, students weigh in by using their voice. You don’t want silent people silently agreeing. Silent agreement means they’ll leave the classroom and tell their friends, “I disagree with everything we just talked about in the classroom.”

You want thoughtful disagreement to come up with the best ideas. I love that you shared that story. Thank you so much.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. There’s a lot more where that came from. I eventually got the hint that if you don’t engage them, they won’t learn. Some of those kids in that class had repeated referrals to the office when they were in someone else’s class—repeated.

I knew that coming in because sometimes, unfortunately, I’d get warned and told, “Oh, you have so-and-so; watch out.” I did my best to know my audience. The best thing about teaching is the powerful, real-time feedback.

If you’re teaching a lesson and everyone’s asleep, guess what? You’re not reaching anybody. But you have that feedback in front of you. If you’re willing to step away from what you think you should be, because maybe that’s what you were used to or how you learned, you can adjust.

We’re preparing students for a world that doesn’t even exist yet, using methods and tools from an era long gone. Then we wonder why students aren’t engaged or willing to take creative risks. Starting from when they’re four years old, we teach them compliance. Line up in a straight line, or you get in trouble.

Structure is important because people thrive in it, but there’s a difference between structure for compliance and structure for growth. They’re two very different things.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love that. It’s like having a fence that keeps people in a space, but within that fence, there’s freedom. Is there any experience you’ve had as an educator or principal where you’ve had a big learning experience—something you tried that didn’t work out the way you thought but became a pivotal learning moment?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. One of the first things I learned as an administrator was related to communication. Let’s say there’s an initiative or a memo you put out, and a couple of teachers don’t follow through or do something different.

It’s easy to send a staff-wide email saying, “Remember to do this,” when really, you’re talking to just two people. I learned from doing that once that it’s not the best approach.

As a classroom teacher, how would I feel if I got that email and I was already doing everything right? So now, when I communicate, I think about the high-performing teachers doing amazing work. I base my decisions on the best people in the organization, not the outliers who didn’t follow through this week.

That applies to classroom management too. If you punish the whole class for one student’s behavior, it affects everyone’s morale. Make decisions based on your best people—it goes a long way.

Sam Demma
That’s such good feedback. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation, and I know the person listening feels the same. If they want to reach out, is it okay to put your email on the podcast page?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. They can also follow me on Instagram, where we post about our school’s Regional Arts Program, performances, exhibits, and more. There’s always a lot going on, which is why the hive metaphor works—it’s always buzzing, and that’s a good thing.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sam. All the best.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Martina Fasano

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 3, 2024 by Education Educator Mental Health Principals School Administration Student Leadership Teachers 0

Sylvain Bastien – High school teacher/guidance counsellor at École Secondaire Catholique Renaissance

Sylvain Bastien – High school teacher/guidance counsellor at École Secondaire Catholique Renaissance
About Sylvain Bastien

Sylvain Bastien is a high school teacher/guidance counsellor at École Secondaire Catholique Renaissance in Aurora, Ontario.  He is a proud franco-ontarian, born and raised in northern Ontario who enjoys the little things in life, or “petits bonheurs” as he likes to call them.  Former camp counsellor, gymnastics coach and national-level athlete, Sylvain spent most of his time growing up in a leadership role or working with kids.  He knew from a young age that he would become a teacher and continues to be a leader in his school community.  

For the first part of his career, Sylvain was a physical education teacher and shared his passion for a healthy and active lifestyle with students in courses like Fitness and Kinesiology.  He then moved to a guidance position before the pandemic and, with the help of his colleague, is continuously finding new ways to improve student well-being, student engagement and school spirit, all with the end goal of helping students become the very best version of themselves. 

Sylvain coaches the cross-country and track and field teams, works with the student council and helps with many other clubs and activities at the school.  He leads the SHSM Program at the school and has been a department lead for many years.  He is always seeking personal and professional growth by running, reading and balancing the demands of a chaotic life with three kids in sports! 

Connect with Sylvain Bastien: Email

Listen Now


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Resources Mentioned

École Secondaire Catholique Renaissance

SHSM Program

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Sylvain Bastien. He’s a high school teacher, guidance counselor, and one of my good friends. He is someone who I met just over a year ago now, and he’s running a lot, so you should follow him on Strava. But he’s doing a lot of good work. Sylvain, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Sylvain Bastien
Hey, Sam. Thank you very much for having me on the show. This is a pretty cool experience, and I’m happy to be here. Like Sam said, my name is Sylvain. I’m a high school teacher. I’ve been in the education world for over 15 years now. I started out with phys ed courses, fitness classes, teaching kinesiology. And then, I’d say about seven or eight years ago, I moved over into guidance, which was a big change for me. So I have since been a full-time guidance counselor with the odd course here and there, kind of keeping my foot in the classroom, which is really what lights me up the most. So yeah, that’s pretty much where I’m at in my professional world.

Sam Demma
When you were a national-level athlete, did you think you were one day going to work in education? Like, what was your own path like as a student?

Sylvain Bastien
I feel like education was always calling my name. I’ve always been involved with different activities that involved kids or teenagers and communities. It started out, even myself when I was in high school. Every opportunity I had to do something fun and be around my peers, that would just light me up. Then I kind of took the initiative of leading different activities and kind of took over some activities, and that just lit up the fire even more.

This led me to work at summer camps for seven summers, where kids would come spend their Monday to Friday with us. It was a residential camp, so they’d stay overnight. My involvement in gymnastics obviously always had me around young athletes and kids of all ages aspiring to be the next best gymnast. So, I was always around kids, and that always kind of fueled me. I knew that once I would have to move on to my career, the education world was where I was heading.

Sam Demma
How did your own involvement in sports growing up shape your future?

Sylvain Bastien
Yeah, that’s a really good question. And I talk about that all the time. Whether it be sport or any extracurricular, I feel like that really is what shapes you as a person. And I credit many people for that in my situation. It definitely did shape me because I had the pleasure of being surrounded by individuals with the same mentality and vision as myself.

It pushes you to learn things that you don’t always learn in a school setting or at home. It makes you develop certain habits and discover new things about yourself. I feel like all those years were definitely the good years. I owe a lot of who I am today to what I did back then.

Sam Demma
Sports still continue to be a massive part of your life because you’re in the parking lot of swimming pools a few times a week, and you’re also spending lots of time running. How important do you feel exercise is in ensuring you show up to the best of your ability at school?

Sylvain Bastien
It’s always been a big part of my life. Every day I had something active or an activity going on. Because of everything that gave me as a person, I feel like I want to give it back to as many people as possible.

In the early years of my career, when I was in the fitness classes teaching kids, we’d start with a group of 15 kids who had never run before, and they didn’t want to run. All they wanted to do was lift weights. I put them on a mission and said, “Guys, we can do something pretty cool if we set our minds to it.”

My tradition with my fitness class was always to plan to run a 10k with the students. We would have the semester to do it. At the beginning of the semester, the kids were always unsure if they could do it. But then they got into the swing of things, discovered a lot about themselves, and realized they were capable of pretty big things.

Sam Demma
One of the consistent things about your career has been working with young people, whether as a coach, guidance counselor, or teacher. How do you think you build effective rapport and relationships with young people?

Sylvain Bastien
I feel like it’s a lot in what we do and what we display as a person. We have to be the leader and set the example we expect our students or kids to follow. I strive to show students that it’s okay to have fun and be yourself.

We live in a world now where everything could be made easy, but I really try to build on the satisfaction and reward factor of putting in the work and seeing progression. That feeling of pride and accomplishment is what I want them to chase.

Sam Demma
Would you be willing to share one of those moments that reminded you why you started doing this work in the first place?

Sylvain Bastien
One of my favorite moments is at the beginning of the school year, when we host a traditional camp to welcome new students. Senior students lead activities for younger students, and it’s always a highlight. It’s amazing to see students from different social circles come together, be themselves, and shine. It reminds me why I love doing this work.

Sam Demma
In a world where students are constantly comparing themselves to others on social media, what challenges do you see students carrying on their shoulders?

Sylvain Bastien
A big challenge is students being afraid to be their authentic selves. In guidance, we focus on creating an environment where students feel it’s okay to have fun and be themselves. It’s a constant effort to help them build the skills they need to succeed and thrive.

Sam Demma
You also spearhead the SHSM programs at your school. Can you explain what SHSM is?

Sylvain Bastien
SHSM stands for Specialist High Skills Major. It allows students in grades 11 and 12 to earn certifications and participate in reach-ahead experiences with college and university partners, all while earning a specialized diploma in sectors like health and wellness or business. It’s a great way for students to build skills and network in their field of interest.

Sam Demma
How do you balance your professional responsibilities with your personal life?

Sylvain Bastien
It’s definitely challenging, but my wife and I make a good team. Living an active lifestyle helps us manage everything. We’ve been fortunate to find supportive communities in our kids’ sports, and that’s been a blessing. It takes a village, and we’re lucky to have one.

Sam Demma
It’s inspiring to see how you manage everything and still make time for what’s important. If an educator wants to connect with you, what’s the best way for them to reach out?

Sylvain Bastien
The best way would be via email. I’m happy to connect with anyone looking for information.

Sam Demma
Thank you, Sylvain. Keep up the amazing work, and I look forward to running with you soon.

Sylvain Bastien
Thank you very much, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sylvain Bastien

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 28, 2024 by Education Educator Mental Health Student Leadership Teachers 0

Danielle Desjardins – Principal at St. Thomas of Villanova High School

Danielle Desjardins – Principal at St. Thomas of Villanova High School
About Danielle Desjardins

Dr. Danielle Desjardins is the Principal at St. Thomas of Villanova High School and a sessional instructor at The University of Windsor. Throughout her 26 years in education, she has explored many roles including high school teacher, instructional coach, vice principal, and safe and equitable schools principal.

Dr. Desjardins’ research and professional passions are rooted in critical, emancipatory theory and practices. She has dedicated much time and interest in working with underrepresented communities in challenging policies and practices that pose barriers. Her current research interest is in policies and practices that impact the educational trajectories of newcomer students with interrupted or limited formal education. She is currently a member of Windsor Pride Board of Directors and has dedicated much time and interest in advocating for 2SLGBTQI+ needs and education in secondary schools.

Connect with Danielle Desjardins: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Thomas of Villanova High School

The University of Windsor

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today, we are joined by a very special guest, Danielle Desjardins. Danielle is the principal of Saint Thomas of Villanova High School in Windsor, Ontario, and she’s a friend of mine. She is trailblazing the way. She never stops educating herself and learning. She loves school so much that she recently finished some more education. Danielle, why don’t you take a moment to introduce yourself?

Danielle Desjardins
Hi, Sam. Thanks for having me here. I’m an administrator, currently a high school principal. I was born in 1997 and worked as an English teacher, English second language, teaching multilingual learners, department head, and a consultant for differentiated instruction. Then I became a principal of Safe Schools and Equity, and later a vice principal and principal. For the past six years, I finished a PhD, which was on my bucket list. And I’m currently also an instructor at the University of Windsor.

Sam Demma
What keeps you driven and moving forward and pursuing more and learning more?

Danielle Desjardins
I think I’m just an inquiry-based approach. When you work with so many different people from all different backgrounds and lived experiences, and you see youth who are full of hope and often facing barriers, I’m a problem solver. I want to learn more about the nature of those barriers. I want to hear more stories. I want to explore maybe new ways of thinking or approaching and working with community to find solutions. So, I’m just an inquisitive person, I suppose.

Sam Demma
What questions are you asking yourself right now in regards to young people and supporting them?

Danielle Desjardins
Yeah, I think I’ve always been a critical analyst or critical theorist, and so I’m very interested in populations that are historically disadvantaged and kind of emancipatory frameworks. We have the responsibility as educators to be problem solvers and creative thinkers, aligning with 21st-century learning that we’re espousing for these youth. So, collaborating, listening to stories, checking our own biases, and challenging ourselves to imagine walking in someone else’s shoes. You spoke about this before, Sam, for sure.

And also to work with community members who might have a better understanding through their own lived experiences to guide us through that ally process. I’ve done a lot of work. For instance, I’ve been on the board of directors of Windsor Pride, supporting 2SLGBTQI+ youth facing barriers in educational systems.

Sam Demma
Do you think about all these questions when you leave the school building? Is it like a non-stop thing that runs through your head?

Danielle Desjardins
Yes, I do. I think about it and try to expose myself to others who have those same passions and curiosities. That’s why I love teaching at night, joining in book talks, or reading scholarly journals to see what the latest research is. It’s a global academic conversation. What are people doing in other countries and places in the world? I was just speaking with a leader from Mexico who ran a school based on SEL (social-emotional learning). The school’s core curriculum was SEL, and everything else was layered out from there. That makes sense to me because what we want is someone who can look at a problem with a knowledge foundation and say, “No problem is too big.” It’s about believing you can solve it and using resources in a world that’s becoming even smaller and more accessible.

Sam Demma
I asked if you think about it outside the school building because your passion is so obvious. You can hear it, you can feel it through the podcast. When you’re walking through the school hallways of Villanova and talking to students or engaging with teachers, what are some of the challenges they tell you they’re currently experiencing or facing?

Danielle Desjardins
I often hear from students that they struggle to balance the expectations placed upon them from various sources. They internalize these expectations and adopt them as their own, which makes them lose sight of what they truly want. Sam, I know you’ve expressed this to our students before. That’s why you’re celebrated—you’re right on. Our students are saying things, and we’re focusing this year on managing stress and strategies. We’ve created a committee to identify and name emotions beyond “I feel sad” or “I feel happy.” We’re identifying the sources of stress and implementing quick strategies in all our classes. It might be meditation, breathing exercises, square breathing, or visualizing. We’re doing this in math, science, history—it’s not curriculum-specific.

Danielle Desjardins
We’ve also realized that some students face external pressures, like having to contribute to family income or excel at extracurriculars to secure scholarships. Social media also weighs heavily on them. They wonder, “Do I look the right way? How do people perceive me?”

Sam Demma
A teacher recently shared a line with me that stuck: “Teachers aren’t just supposed to teach the curriculum; they’re supposed to teach character.” It’s hard to figure out how to help young people solve these challenges. How do we teach empathy or help them unpack the burdens they carry in their metaphorical backpacks? What are some initiatives at Villanova that you’re excited about and anticipating cool results from?

Danielle Desjardins
Every school does fundraisers and gives back to the community, but what makes it enriching is ensuring inclusivity. We run a fantastic Best Buddies program to ensure all students are included in school activities. Recently, we noticed tension in the junior class. To address this, we called upon all grades to facilitate a fun day, ensuring representation from art-focused students, STEM-focused students, music, and tech. We also have initiatives that combine different departments, like building structures for charity events. For example, we’re planning a “Canstruction” event at the local mall. It requires engineering, artistry, and collaboration among robotics teams, tech, and art students. This breaks down silos, allowing students to explore new areas and appreciate diversity. We also started a course this year on positive media communication. Students promote their peers through social media and other mediums, ensuring no voices are left out. It’s been exciting to see how this course unfolds.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. There’s so much happening at Villanova this year. Thank you for sharing some of the initiatives and your thoughts on wellness. You’ve mentioned a lot about students, but educators’ well-being is equally important. What do you do to make sure your cup is full so you can show up for others?

Danielle Desjardins
Great question, Sam. I think educators often neglect themselves. As a leader, I prioritize creating opportunities and safe spaces for teachers to express their needs. I ensure they feel valued and listened to, even if an idea doesn’t seem feasible at first. I challenge myself to say, “I don’t know that it won’t work.” Flexibility and recognizing when someone’s having a tough day go a long way. Sometimes, it’s as simple as our demeanor and openness. We also do fun activities, like participating in student events. For example, during Fun Day, staff joined students on the slip-and-slide. It’s about building community through shared experiences. Personally, I find wellness in volunteering and spending time with students outside formal settings. For example, last weekend, I volunteered at a community event with students, which left me feeling great. I also run and model the importance of balance for students, joining them on cross-country runs or simply being visible and approachable.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. I think it’s so important for students to see teachers as human beings—laughing, playing, and participating alongside them. It builds a community that can’t be replicated. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your insights, Danielle. From the bottom of my heart, I hope this academic year is filled with impactful moments and meaningful experiences.

Danielle Desjardins
Right back at you, Sam. Thank you for this opportunity. I’m humbled to participate, and our students still talk about your presentations. We’ll definitely get you back.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much, my friend.

Danielle Desjardins
Take care.

Sam Demma
Take care. See you soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Danielle Desjardins

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 26, 2024 by Education Education Consultant Educator Principals School Counsellor Student Leadership Student Success 0

Brian Robson – Executive Director of the Ontario Tech Student Union (OTSU) at Ontario Tech University 

Brian Robson – Executive Director of the Ontario Tech Student Union (OTSU) at Ontario Tech University
About Brian Robson

Brian Robson is the Executive Director of the Ontario Tech Student Union (OTSU) at Ontario Tech University in Oshawa, Ontario, where he leads a team of full-time, part-time and student staff who strive to enhance the campus experience for nearly 11,000 students. At the OTSU, Brian steward policies, mentors student executives, oversees elections, oversees numerous services, programs and events as well as over 100 Clubs & Societies, liaises with University Senior Leaders, and charts long-term strategic planning.

Prior to joining OTSU in late 2023, Brian was a Director of Training Programs and Business Development at Toronto Metropolitan University (TMU) for several years. There, he directed the action-research teams leading entrepreneurship and skills-training programs at local, provincial and national levels. He has presented papers on this work at international and national conferences. Prior to TMU, Brian served in previous roles in Financial Services, education and non-profit organizations. He earned a PhD in Systematic Theology from the University of Toronto, and an MBA (Globalization) from the Ted Rogers School of Management at TMU. His passion is shaping emerging leaders and diverse teams for the future of work in a changing economy.

Connect with Brian Robson: Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Ontario Tech Student Union (OTSU)

Ontario Tech University

Toronto Metropolitan University (TMU)

Ted Rogers School of Management

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Brian Robson. Brian is the Executive Director of the Ontario Tech Student Union for the Ontario Tech University in Oshawa. It is the university of the Durham region, and that’s where I’m from. Brian, it’s so awesome to have someone on the show today that’s basically from the backyard. How are you?

Brian Robson
Good, thank you. You’re my homie here today.

Sam Demma
It’s good. Yeah, man. Did you grow up in the Durham region or where is home for you?

Brian Robson
I did not. I actually grew up out west. I’ve lived in three different provinces in Canada, four different city centers, but I have been in Durham region for a number of years now. I bought my first house out here and still here, and I’ve lived in Pickering, Whitby, Ajax. So, it has been home now for a long time.

Sam Demma
Did you know when you were growing up, living in different provinces or different cities that one day you would work in education? Or what brought you here in your own career pathway?

Brian Robson
Yeah, that’s a great question. I didn’t know what I wanted to do, but I did get a sense of that, I guess, sort of mid to late teens. Mid to late teens, just with some stuff that I was involved in, kind of like you, I discovered that I was good at public speaking. And so I had a chance to use that and to be involved in different things where I had a chance to do that. People would say to me, they say, “You’re a teacher. That’s kind of your thing. You’re a teacher kind of guy.” And I sort of stuck and I realized, yeah, I guess that’s kind of what I am. So then when I started my post-secondary education journey, which has been long, I kind of realized that that is where I would like to be, is in the post-secondary space. I don’t want to be a high school teacher, elementary school teacher. I want post-secondary. So I went on then to earn several degrees, including a PhD from the University of Toronto with the intention of being a professor. So that was my goal, that was my career objective. But the reason I wanted to become a professor is because I didn’t want to just be a subject matter expert and I didn’t want to just teach a subject. I wanted to shape students. So my tagline for a long, long time has been empowering or emerging leaders. So I wanted to build leaders. I wanted to educate and empower emerging leaders. And I thought I would do that in the classroom. Now, long story short, that’s actually not how it turned out, but I am doing that. I’m just doing it now outside the classroom in a university context rather than inside the classroom. So things took a turn from where I thought they would go, but I did end up meeting the same objective that I had set out to do.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. It’s interesting that you’ve kind of discerned the age group you wanted to work with while you were still going through school on who you wanted to serve. Why leadership? Why developing leaders? Was there something about your upbringing or childhood that made that a central theme for you?

Brian Robson
Oh man, that’s a really good question. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything explicit, but I was aware, I am aware, I’ve always been aware, all of us are shaped by who our leaders are, right? So whether it’s our parents, or whether it’s our bosses at work, or whether it’s in the school context, whatever, we’re all shaped by our leaders for better or for worse. Even though there’s a trillion books on leadership and all kinds of literature and courses and workshops and resources, we still have, I think, a dearth of really good leaders in our society. And so it’s up to the emerging generations to kind of take up that mantle and to learn how to do it right. And so to learn what true, you know, effective, empowering leadership is really all about. I just sort of knew from, I guess, in my own educational journey that the power of education is where you can do that. It’s a great context for shaping people, not just academically with their courses and with their knowledge, with their academic programs, but way beyond that into sort of more people-building, cultivating values and principles, and finding your place in the world, right?

Sam Demma
When you think of good leaders or great leaders, what are some of the things you think they do differently? Or they do that other not-so-effective leaders might not be doing? I ask it from a personal perspective because, for the first time in my life, I find myself leading others in my own work, and I want to improve myself. I want to become a better leader myself.

Brian Robson
That’s another fantastic question. I think that it’s sort of a mindset and a perspective. What differentiates great leaders from mediocre leaders or poor leaders is really having the right mindset regarding what leadership is. Leadership is not about power or wielding power or having authority over other people. It is about empowerment. There’s a very common term that’s very prevalent in leadership literature, and it’s been around for a long time—even since ancient times. It’s called servant leadership, right? So true, really good leaders are servants. They’re not masters. They are humble, not arrogant. Somebody once asked me—it was actually in a job interview process for a post-secondary school position—they asked me a great question: “What’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?” And something came to me quickly. The best leadership advice I ever got was: Don’t own it. What he meant by that was, it’s not actually yours. You have to separate yourself from the thing that you are leading. Great leaders don’t own it because leadership is temporary. You’re going to be replaced someday. You’re not going to be leading that group of people, organization, or company forever. It’s temporary. So don’t own it; instead, see it as something you are stewarding for a while. When you adopt that mindset, it puts you in a better state to treat people well, make the right decisions, avoid selfishness, think big picture, and build things the right way.

Sam Demma
As a leader, you have conversations with so many people every day, and you want to equip them to succeed, move things forward, and feel supported. Sometimes, naturally, you have difficult conversations. How do you approach those as a leader with the people you serve?

Brian Robson
Yeah, that’s another very good question. For me, it’s a lifelong journey. Leadership is a journey, for sure. I’ll be honest—by nature, I hate conflict. As a fifth-generation Canadian, I avoid conflict by instinct. So difficult conversations, the ones you just described, go against the grain of my personality. But you approach them with wisdom. Again, you do it from the perspective that you’re not defending your turf or trying to win a battle for the sake of winning. It’s about doing what’s best for the organization and the person you’re in conflict with. You approach these conversations with humility. It’s not about winning but about reaching a better place in the situation. Listening is crucial. My academic background has trained me to reason and connect the dots with facts. That’s my approach—stick to the facts. Avoid getting personal or emotional, and focus on reasoning through the situation. When you have a conflict, let the facts win. If I’m wrong, the facts will prove it. If the other person is wrong, the facts will show it. And ideally, both of us can come to a shared understanding based on the truth.

Sam Demma
That’s such a great perspective. I ask because I’ve noticed in myself, when I’m having challenging conversations, I sometimes feel the need to win or defend my turf. But I’m recognizing that and trying to improve. So, I really appreciate your insights. You’re clearly passionate about serving students. Although Ontario Tech has a smaller student population, I imagine that creates a lot of beautiful, intimate opportunities. Tell me a little about the school and why you love it so much.

Brian Robson
Yeah, so we talked a little bit off-air about this, but you’re familiar with Durham Region and how multicultural it is. The university reflects that diversity. We’re located in Oshawa, with two campuses: North Oshawa and downtown. It’s largely a commuter school, so most students live off-campus and commute to class. We do have some out-of-province and international students, but the majority are local—people from Durham, East GTA, or York Region. Our student body is incredibly diverse—culturally, academically, and religiously. We’re branded as a STEM university, but we also emphasize “Tech with a Conscience,” which reflects our focus on ethical and social responsibility in technology. As the student union, we serve everyone, meeting them where they are and supporting their unique needs and interests. That’s what makes this role so fulfilling.

Sam Demma
Before your time at Ontario Tech, you were at TMU. What was the difference in your roles of service at each of these universities?

Brian Robson
Very different. TMU is a larger school, also a commuter school, and similarly diverse with many first-generation students. I loved working with both TMU and Ontario Tech students because they’re trailblazers—grateful, hardworking, and not entitled. At TMU, I had various roles, but my focus was on programs for specific populations. These included skills-building and entrepreneurship programs for groups like newcomers, women, Black youth, and students aged 15 to 29. Some programs were federally funded, so we partnered with universities across Canada to deliver them nationally. Here at Ontario Tech, my role is more centralized, focused on serving the entire student body through the union. Both experiences are rewarding but very different in scope and focus.

Sam Demma
Have you always been passionate about entrepreneurship, business, and STEM, or is that just how your career unfolded?

Brian Robson
That’s just how the career unfolded. It wasn’t intentional, but it all fits under my personal mission of empowering emerging leaders. Entrepreneurs are leaders, so it aligned perfectly with my goal of shaping future leaders, even though it happened outside the classroom.

Sam Demma
What are you most excited about this academic year?

Brian Robson
We’ve had the largest first-year class in Ontario Tech’s history, which is exciting. Their energy and enthusiasm are infectious, and we want to build on that momentum. This is my first year seeing a class come in, and I’m looking forward to watching them grow and develop over the next four or five years. They’re the next leaders of the student union, and it’s exciting to be part of their journey.

Sam Demma
Education shapes humans and the future. The work you’re doing is so important. If someone listening wants to connect or ask a question, what’s the best way to reach you?

Brian Robson
LinkedIn is probably the best place to start. I included my LinkedIn profile in the bio I sent you. From there, I’m happy to share my email and connect further.

Sam Demma
Brian, my Oshawa homie, thank you so much for taking the time to share your experiences, insights on leadership, and passion for education. I hope this academic year is one of the best yet. Keep up the great work, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Brian Robson
Thank you so much for having me, Sam. This has been great—I’ve really enjoyed it. Keep it going!

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Brian Robson

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 19, 2024 by Education School Administration Student Leadership Student Success 0

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