About Darrel Glenn
Darrell Glenn (@coachdglenn) is the head coach of the University of Prince Edward men’s varsity basketball team. He has coached basketball at various programs throughout Ontario and is currently in Prince Edward Island.
He was a high school teacher in Ontario for 17 years and taught various social science courses, and he spent the last 5 years teaching Phys Ed. Darrell feels very fortunate to have had many mentors and role models enter his life, and he credits them for shaping his ideas on giving back.
Darrell’s philosophy on teaching and developing is that you have to establish trust with the people you are working with, and enthusiasm is the difference.
Connect with Darrell: Email | Instagram | Twitter
Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.
Men’s Basketball – University of Prince Edward Island Men’s Varsity Basketball (UPEI)
Ontario Institute for Studies in Education – University of Toronto (OISE)
Queen’s Athletics and Recreation
**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.
Sam Demma (00:55):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator.
Sam Demma (00:58):
Today’s special guest is Darrell Glenn. Darrell Glenn is the head coach of the University of Prince Edward men’s varsity basketball team. He has coached basketball at various programs throughout Ontario and is currently in Prince Edward Island.He was a high school teacher in Ontario for 17 years and taught various social science courses, and he spent the last 5 years teaching Phys Ed. Darrell feels very fortunate to have had many mentors and role models enter his life, and he credits them for shaping his ideas on giving back.Darrell’s philosophy on teaching and developing is that you have to establish trust with the people you are working with, and enthusiasm is the difference. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Coach Darrell Glenn, and I will see you on the other side. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today we’re joined by a very special guest. The guest is Darrell Glenn. Darrell, welcome to the show. Please start by introducing yourself
Darrell Glenn (01:59):
First and foremost, thanks for having me. As you mentioned, my name is Darrell Glenn, and I’m the head coach of the Varsity men’s basketball team at the University of Prince Edward Island.
Sam Demma (02:10):
How did you get into sports?
Darrell Glenn (02:14):
Well, I, I’ve played sports really throughout school as a kid and I grew up in Toronto and I was fortunate enough to be recruited to come to the University of Prince Edward Rhode Island. Nice. See where I played varsity basketball here for five years and once I finished playing, I actually stayed on the island for an additional year to work with the women’s team and that’s when I caught the bug on in coaching and wanted to kind of pursue it.
Sam Demma (02:42):
Where abouts in Toronto are you from?
Darrell Glenn (02:44):
I’m originally from North York. Nice. But when I moved back from pi, we kind of moved downtown and then we settled in the York region, Richmond Hill area.
Sam Demma (02:57):
Very cool. I’m just in Pickering, so not too far from your home hometown, <laugh>. Nice,
Darrell Glenn (03:02):
Nice, nice, nice.
Sam Demma (03:03):
What was it about, you mentioned you caught the bug. What was it about coaching specifically that year with the women’s team that really opened your eyes to the passion you had for coaching that inspired you to keep going to this day?
Darrell Glenn (03:18):
Well it’s interesting because when I was playing, I was going into my senior year of high school and I attended a basketball camp as a player and at the conclusion of the camp, one of the coaches, his name is Willie Dallas and I credit him really as being the first person to plant that seed. And he said to me, when you’re playing careers over and you’re ever considering coaching, give me a call. I think you’d be a fantastic coach. And I kind of heard it but never really thought much of it cuz at that time I was 18 or 17 and really just thinking about playing. And it wasn’t really until after I had done the year with the girls and I was moving back to Toronto that I actually called them and he kind of helped set my pathway into coaching once I got back to Ontario.
Sam Demma (04:08):
And the aspects of coaching that give you the most joy, would they be the interactions with the athletes, seeing them go on and off the court? What parts of it keep you going back day in and day out?
Darrell Glenn (04:21):
I think to go back to, sorry, just second part of your question. When I did that year with the girls, I think what every component of coaching, it takes a little bit away. It takes certain skill sets that you have to, to do the various things that you need to do. So you’re coaching, there’s the technical aspect of it, the emotional and mental side of it where you have to manage different emotions and different personalities. There’s the competition side of it, which I really enjoy. There’s the preparation side of it, there’s the recruiting side of it and there’s the community relations side of it. So there’s a lot of different things that I got exposed to in that year and I really, really enjoyed it. And I thought this is like there’s never a day that’s the same two days that are the same. So you’re always doing something new. And fast forwarding to where I am today, I think what I really love about it the most is that I’m constantly growing as a person.
Sam Demma (05:25):
That’s awesome. And you’re still throwing around a basketball and being able to be on the court, which was your passion growing up as a kid, which I think is really special. Yeah,
Darrell Glenn (05:36):
Sam Demma (05:38):
Have you had any other involvement in the lives of young people off the court? Is there anything else that you’ve done or been a part of that has impacted youth?
Darrell Glenn (05:46):
So I was actually a high school teacher in Toronto for 19 years. I taught at four different schools. So I’d like to believe that I’ve had an impact on <laugh>. A few the people, few of the students that I worked with. Nice. I can certainly say with a lot of confidence, they’ve definitely had a positive impact on me and my development as a person.
Sam Demma (06:07):
So you started with teaching before you became a coach or did you start coaching back when you began your education career in Toronto as well?
Darrell Glenn (06:17):
I actually started them at the same time. I guess when I came back to Ontario, I worked, worked actually for Canada Trust before it became TD Canada Trust. Nice <laugh>. And I had started coaching almost immediately and after doing that for about three years, I was at the side counter doing mortgages and loans. I just realized this is not something I think I can really enjoy doing for the rest of my life. And I was already starting to coach and I’d already kind of felt like teaching was where I wanted to go. So I know I was fortunate enough to get into OISE at U F T, did that and then started teaching right away. So it’s been something I’ve always kind of wanted to do and when I had the opportunity to do it, I really enjoyed it.
Sam Demma (07:03):
What are the different roles you’ve done in education? Were you a high school teacher of the same subject for all 19 years? Did you move schools? Tell me a little bit about your journey after you finished the degree.
Darrell Glenn (07:15):
So sure. I’ll share an interesting story. So in my year at oise, cuz back then it was just one year for teachers college and they had a career day and a bunch of boards came to oise and they kind of talked about the different job, the job opportunities and whatever and how to apply. And during the presentations I made a list of the schools that I wanted to teach at my preference. And so one of the schools that I had written down was Oakwood Collegiate, that’s the school I wanted. That was my number one choice. So when I finished teachers college, there was a hiring freeze and I started teaching at a private school and I found out that the head coach of the men’s basketball, senior men’s basketball team or boys’ basketball team at Oakwood was in his last year. He was retiring the following year, let’s go.
Darrell Glenn (08:16):
And coach head coach Terry Thompson has kind of been a legend in the city, had kind of coached at that school for 30 years. I had kind of grown up when I was in high school playing against his team and I thought that’s the job I want. And so I approached him about being a volunteer with the team that year and learning under him in his last year. And so what I would do every day is I would leave the private school, which was in a Toko and I would drive all the way downtown. Geez. And I would volunteer with the team. And one day when I drove downtown, I got into the gym and I saw my old vice principal talking to Coach Thompson. So I approached him and we kind of looked at each other, what are you doing here? What are you doing here, <laugh>? And so I explained to him that I was teaching and I was at this private school and I reached out to Coach Thompson and he said I could volunteer. And then I looked at him, what are you doing here? And he said, well I’m actually the principal of school
Sam Demma (09:16):
Throughway meeting <laugh>.
Darrell Glenn (09:18):
So through some work he was able to help assist me get that position cool at Oakwood Collegiate. And that’s where my teaching career started. I was at Oakwood for eight years and then I went on to teach at Newton Brook Collegiate. I did that for three years. And then I finished my last six years of teaching or seven years of teaching was at West Houston Centennial. So I taught everything. I started in social sciences cause I got my degree in history and I have a minor in sociology. So I did Canadian history, I taught law, I taught ancient civilizations, I taught politics, I saw family studies. And then in my last years I kind of transitioned into Phed and I started teaching Phed and then became the head of athletics at West Houston Centennial.
Sam Demma (10:14):
What a journey. Yeah, what a cool journey. What a cool story. Let’s talk about the volunteerism aspect of that story real quick because I think you wouldn’t have had that opportunity had you not decided to volunteer. And one of the things I often talk about with people is how important volunteerism is not in the context of getting job opportunities for yourself, but in the context of giving back. And I found if you give back, usually it just naturally opens up cool opportunities and doors in other areas of your life just on its own. Do you think getting involved as an educator and being a part of the community more than just teaching in a classroom is really important?
Darrell Glenn (10:54):
I think so. And I always felt to honestly as being a minority teacher and going into some of the communities and it was one of the reasons why I wanted to get into education. Cause first of all, I didn’t see a lot of people who looked like me in the education system when I was going through school. And I just thought there were some areas where students could use a little bit more support and a little bit more understanding. So I always took on the role understanding that it was a lot bigger than just being in the classroom and that my reach and influence could be extended way beyond just being, I thought it was impactful in the classroom, but I also thought I had a unique opportunity to do a lot of a variety of other things to positively impact students that I worked with. So I kind of took that role very serious. And I agree with you and I always tell this story to my players now when I suggest that they go and volunteer and they always say, ah no, I gotta make money or I gotta do. And I always go back to the story and say, when I started out, had I not volunteered, who knows how long I would’ve not been able to coach in the board. Cause at the time they weren’t hiring. I was really fortunate, but I kind of created my fortune by just volunteering.
Sam Demma (12:15):
And I think there’s actions that push our odds in our favor. And Jim Roan, I think always used to say he was like this author and success teacher who’s now passed away that if you help enough people reach their visions and goals, you can have yours too. And it’s this idea that the person who’s always willing to give and pour into others that also ends up living the life that they wanna live. And I think it’s just, it’s a beautiful situation because you benefit because you feel good about it and the people you’re helping benefit cuz you’re helping them. And then the world as a whole just becomes a little bit of a kinder place. And I think sports are such an amazing way to give back. I spent my whole childhood pursuing a dream to play pro soccer. What are some of the correlations that you found between coaching students on the court versus teaching them in a classroom? Are there skills that they picked up in athletics that you think also apply to teaching and to life?
Darrell Glenn (13:14):
It, it’s interesting because when I look at my role as a head coach, I really first and foremost look at myself as a teacher. And I always kind of see it from that lens. And I think the way we, what we see as our strength and I say mean our coaching staff, what we see as our strength here is the development of people. And we don’t just look at that from a basketball perspective, but we look at that as a human perspective. And we’re trying to help our young people grow in more than just the physical part. We’re trying to help them emotionally, spiritually, and we try to put as many resources as we can. So I feel like my teaching background actually helps me. For example, today I’m doing something on time management with my rookies. Nice. So I’ve kinda used my teaching background to put something together and we’re gonna do a classroom session on time management and how they can better use their time to help them be successful both on and off the court.
Sam Demma (14:18):
That’s awesome. I feel like educators could benefit from that too. And any human being <laugh>, if you don’t mind me asking, what are some of the things you intend to share or some of the ideas?
Darrell Glenn (14:32):
Well what the way it’s set up is, and this is the way I approach teaching, is I’m gonna let them, we created a chart where the times from 6:00 AM to 12:00 AM every day. And they’re gonna just go through and I’m gonna get them to put through all the activities that they do in a day, Monday through Saturday or Monday through Sunday. And just get them to look at really to prioritize or just see for themselves where am I spending all of my time and is where I’m spending this time productive. So it’s really a reflective exercise where they’re gonna do most of the work and then they’re gonna look at their own hours and how they’re using it and determine for themselves if there are areas where they could be a little bit more productive.
Sam Demma (15:24):
I love that they could even align their future goals with where they’re spending time and see if they’re actually contributing to bringing that to life or not at all. <laugh>. Right.
Darrell Glenn (15:33):
And it’s those four hours you’re spending a day gaming, is that helping you with your academic work and is that happening helping you as an athlete?
Sam Demma (15:43):
Very cool. Yeah, I love that. It sounds like you’ve had individuals in your life who’ve played a big role. Have you had any mentors who, when you think about people in your life who’ve made a difference immediately come to the forefront of your mind? And if so, who are some of those individuals, even if they’re no longer around or even if they’re authors of books or anything that’s been really helpful in the formation of your own beliefs and ideas?
Darrell Glenn (16:08):
I’ve been really blessed in this regard and I’m a firm believer that people come in and out of your life at different times to give you different things and to provide you with different opportunities if you let them in. And I have been, there’s one area of my life where I feel like I’ve been truly blessed. It’s been with the people who have impacted me and it starts really, really early. And I would say along my journey and there’s so many people to mention, I would be not to mention cause I don’t wanna forget anyone. But I would just say that there are a lot of people who’ve come into my life that have given me different things that have helped shaped the way I think about things the way I live my life. And I’ve been incredibly fortunate in that regard. So I often feel like a great deal of responsibility to give back because I’ve gotten so much that I want to give back to people and especially the people I’m working with cuz I’ve been very, very fortunate in that regard.
Sam Demma (17:15):
Ah, that’s awesome. Without mentioning names, what are some of the things you think you’ve learned or taken away that have been foundational for you? Or maybe there’s moments in your life where something was going on and person crossed your path and it was like, damn, I needed that interaction today. I wondering if you have any moments like that come to mind?
Darrell Glenn (17:36):
Mean there are a lot. So I mean, I’m thinking of early childhood where I had a coach who kind of came into my life and we looked at him as a mentor, a big brother. And he really instilled hard work and discipline or what’s gonna help you be successful. And the way we approached all sports and activities was full out. He never let us take a possession off. And that’s been kind of a running theme throughout my life with different people who’ve come into my life. And I’ve had the good fortune to be around a lot of successful coaches and successful people. And that’s the one common stream that I’ve always seen is the work ethic. That these people are just tireless workers and they’re always pushing to get better. So that’s been, that’s really common. Regardless if it’s sport, if it’s business, if it’s whatever.
Darrell Glenn (18:26):
I’ve teachers, I’ve just consistently seen this in my teaching career. When I was at Boise, I ran into a professor who really, she had a class and I can’t remember the name of the class cause it was just one of these really long titles that had seven different titles to it, <laugh>. But the long and short of it is the class was set up for us to become familiar with what our students are going through outside of life and through those, I’ll give you an example. So one of the things that we had to do is we had to go to a rave. So our class had to go to
Sam Demma (19:09):
Darrell Glenn (19:10):
We had to go to a bar, they went to a gay bar is one of the things we had to do. We had to go, we read an an autobiography on Tupac. Nice. And so just all these different things that we had to do that really helped us to understand what our students’ lives were like. And what what’s impactful about this course was the professor created, she created an environment where people were sharing really personal stories about really traumatic things that had happened in her life. And you would leave the classroom with a headache cause everybody would be sobbing uncontrollably. Damn. It was almost like being in a therapy session. It was unbelievable that these strangers, we would get together for an hour and a half or however the look long the class was. And she created an environment that was so trusting that people were opening up about things that they had not discussed with anybody in their entire life. And I remember walking away from that experience in that class and thinking, wouldn’t that be something if you could create a classroom environment like that where people felt that safe and that vulnerable, that they would be willing to share all the things that are troubling them. So that kind of stood out in my mind as a very, very special experience. And she was just an unbelievable professor in order to shape that culture.
Sam Demma (20:42):
I wanna jump in for a second. Sure. That question you have of how cool would it be to create a classroom where every student feels that way, I think is a question that runs through the mind of every educator as one of the goals they have in their classrooms or on the court as a coach amongst their athletes. And I’m curious to know if you found any characteristics or things that she did that you think enabled her to build that level of trust that you’ve tried to exhibit yourself or you think other educators might be able to give a try in their classrooms?
Darrell Glenn (21:14):
To be honest, it’s like I’ve been doing coaching now, this is my 27th year and I taught, like I said, for about 19 and I still haven’t had that magic touch. Yeah, she was just so unique in so many ways and a lot of it was just she was beyond belief and always gave everyone the benefit of the doubt. Never questioned if you came in late and you were always late, she treated it. It was the first time you were late. And when I think about my teaching, your automatic instinct, again, one of the things I’ve learned early in teaching, and I remember this, I had a student and he was always late and then one day I just was just sick of him being late and he was just so casual about coming in and being late. It never had a really good explanation. So I took him in the hall and I just verbally went after him. And then he kind of just calmly said, well sir, what am I supposed to do? I gotta take my siblings to school before I come to class. And I thought, geez. And it was my first real lesson. And you better start asking more questions before you start calling students. Ew
Sam Demma (22:34):
Darrell Glenn (22:36):
<laugh>, right? Yeah. It’s sitting there and you’re thinking to your, how terrible do I feel this kid is in grade nine and he’s gotta get two siblings dressed and take them to school. He’s gotta make their lunch, he’s gotta make their breakfast. And they weren’t even going to the same school and he just did this every day. And he would come to class like nothing. And the kid was 10 minutes late. Was it at the end of the world? No. And what he had already done, he had done more than most of his peers had done for the whole day. He’d already done it before nine o’clock. So that was really highlighting moment for me to realize when I was in education, you need to really get to know your students. You really get need to and imagine no matter what their personalities are like or how they present themselves, there’s always a story there.
Darrell Glenn (23:22):
And sometimes the kids with the biggest behavioral problems have the worst stories or they need the most sympathy, they need the most understanding. So our professor and I can say her name, Tara Goldstein, was, she was unbelievable with that. She made you feel safe, she made you feel understood. She, and she just had had a very unique way of doing it. It was just a very innocent really, to be honest. I haven’t been able to replicate it, so I don’t even know how to describe it. But it was just so genuine that she just pulled you in and made you feel like this is a safe place.
Sam Demma (24:02):
I love that. I think that shares a lot. It says a lot about her teaching for you to still be talking about it now and the impact that it created and how much it inspired you to try and create those similar spaces. Sounds like you’ve had so many, oh sorry, go
Darrell Glenn (24:18):
Ahead. Sorry. I was gonna say this. The other thing that’s interesting about that is, so we were at the faculty and this class was made up of students from various faculty. So I was in history, there would be people in science, there were people in various, we since that grad, I graduated in 2000. Since that time we would see people, I would see teachers at track and field meets or at a teaching like the PD session. And there’s this immediate connection and it’s just from this one class <laugh>, it was like, I don’t even know how to describe it. I still don’t know how to describe it. But anytime I see one of those students, we have an immediate connection.
Sam Demma (25:03):
That’s so cool. How many people are in that class? Do you remember roughly? Was it a big number?
Darrell Glenn (25:09):
Maybe 40, 45, something like that.
Sam Demma (25:11):
That’s so cool. That is a case study
Darrell Glenn (25:15):
<laugh>. Yeah. And the unfortunate thing is there were two parts of the course and the second part of the course in the second semester, she got a promotion,
Sam Demma (25:25):
So she wasn’t teaching it no more.
Darrell Glenn (25:26):
So she didn’t teach us for the entire year. We were devastated.
Sam Demma (25:29):
Darrell Glenn (25:30):
Sam Demma (25:30):
Devastated. I think that’s the goal of every educator, build these safe spaces where students can be themselves and secretly know that if you leave, they’d be devastated. <laugh>.
Darrell Glenn (25:39):
Yeah. And what she taught me is the impact that you can have because here we are like 20 something years later and I’m still talking about it. It was yesterday.
Sam Demma (25:51):
Wow. That’s so cool. You’ve had various individuals and people in your life who have crossed your paths and had a significant impact. Have you found inspiration in any books or courses or other materials or resources that you found helpful as well? Or has most of it been people in your immediate vicinity most of your life?
Darrell Glenn (26:11):
No. Again, I kind of alluded to this before, but I think the thing that’s been great about this job, and it’s not just coaches coaching and o’s like what we’re trying to do here is build a program. And for me as a graduate of this school, what I’m hoping to do is to leave a lasting legacy so that the next person who takes this job over after I’m finished with it takes it to another level. And what I’m hoping to do also is to create a foundation where some of the grunt work that I had to do to kind of get the program to where we are now, that person doesn’t have to do, they can just take it and take it to another level. So I kind of see that as my responsibility and I feel a little indebted to the university cuz they gave me an opportunity. They kind of believed in me. So again, one of the things that I’ve encountered that I feel I’m blessed with. So I certainly wanna share that blessing and create an opportunity for someone else down the road.
Sam Demma (27:15):
Very cool. I love that you mentioned that you have a whole staff as well, and that one of the focuses is not just developing the people, the young people into great athletes, but also into great human beings. Where does the latter part of that whole mission come into play? I know that you mentioned that you have in classroom sessions, gimme an idea of what a week looks like as a part of the basketball program or the whole program.
Darrell Glenn (27:41):
And I’m always, I’m jumped, sorry, I jumped over part of your question. The other part you talked about is where is my influences come from? So the other part of that is, and I’ll lead into the answer. Sure. I think the other part of that is, is I’m always trying to find ways to better deliver and better meet the needs of the young people that I’m working with. Nice. And that includes the staff that I’m working with. So there’s this constant evolution and you’re constantly pushing yourself to try to get better. You’re constantly finding ways to communicate better. So I read all the time. I’m always reading. I’m watching podcasts endlessly. I’m talking to coaches across the country. I like, I’ll pick up the phone and ask a coach about retention. What are you doing about retention? So I have a really good friend who coaches at Queens and Queens has one of the best retention rates in the Oua or the Ontario University schools.
Darrell Glenn (28:34):
Well, I called him What’s going on over there? Why aren’t you losing any players <laugh>? Everybody across the country’s losing players you’re not losing. So I’m always, I haveing friends who coach in the states, so I’m picking their brains. I also have those people come and speak to the team. Nice. So we’ve had people come in to speak to our team via Zoom or people locally in the community. So I’m constantly looking for ways to learn and grow. And I’m hoping by example that the players are learning and the people that I’m around are learning that this is an important part of learning and growing is you’re constantly seeking ways to get better.
Sam Demma (29:15):
Yeah. That’s awesome. I love that. And now onto the second question I asked you, but we were back to the last one. What does a week look like in the eyes of a student going through this program and being a part of the team?
Darrell Glenn (29:29):
So it’s actually quite grueling. So we’re on the court. We’re on court probably. So the team is put into small groups and we’re on the court an hour a day outside of practice. So Monday to Thursday there we do small individual work and we just work on their fundamentals and their skills in those sessions for an hour. On Tuesdays and Thursdays, they also have weightlifting. And that’s just for the guys who were playing, we call them heavy usage players. So they’re playing 20 or more minutes a game. They lift for twice a week. If you’re playing less than 20, then you’re doing three times a week. So they do that with our strength and conditioning coach. And then we practice every day, anywhere from an hour, hour and a half to two hours. All of our freshmen are in study hall for four hours a week.
Darrell Glenn (30:27):
So we go Monday and Thursday for one hour each session we’ll bring in guest speakers, we’ll bring in various people to talk to our team, and then we compete on the weekends. So within all of those things, I’m constantly bringing in. So we, let’s say we have a, today we practice at six o’clock. So we always meet a half an hour before in a classroom. Nice. And we will go over our X’s and O’s, our technical stuff. But often those discussions start with some kind of a lesson. So we do everything from interrupting harm to study skills to team goals versus individual goals where we’re really just talking about the human being and we, we’ve done stuff on gratitude. Nice. So we just tried cross the full gamut of things. So again, we’re hoping to get our guys to grow as much as possible.
Sam Demma (31:33):
Very cool. That’s awesome. It sounds like the program is a really fertile place for growth <laugh>. I dunno why I like gardening analogy comes to mind. But I have been on many different programs. I’ve had some really phenomenal experiences and I’ve had some really terrible experiences growing up as an athlete and the program, it sounds like you’re running, would’ve been a dream program for me to be a part of, so. Well,
Darrell Glenn (32:01):
Thanks for saying that. I appreciate,
Sam Demma (32:02):
Yeah, I hope you continue to do this work for a long time. And if someone’s listening to this and wants to reach out and ask you questions about retention or how they’ve embedded, don’t
Darrell Glenn (32:13):
Ask you about retention <laugh>
Sam Demma (32:14):
Or if they want to pick your brain just about sports and the connections between that and teaching or maybe they just wanna ask you about education at all because they’re just getting into the profession or having some challenges right now. What would be the most efficient way for an educator listening to reach out and get in touch with you?
Darrell Glenn (32:31):
So they can get ahold of me at firstname.lastname@example.org.
Sam Demma (32:38):
Awesome. Darrell, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate it so, so much. It’s been a pleasure and an honor chatting with you. Keep up the great work you’re doing and we’ll talk soon.
Darrell Glenn (32:47):
Well, it’s a pleasure, Sam. Thanks so much for giving me the opportunity. Really enjoyed to chat.
Sam Demma (32:52):
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