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Student Leadership

Heather McCaig – President of Alberta Association of Student’s Councils and Advisors (AASCA) & Student Leadership Advisor

Heather McCaig - President of AASCA & Student Leadership Advisor
About Heather McCaig

Lead by example, treat each other better than you expect to be treated, and live life to the fullest!  These are mottos that she lives by. She has taught at Crescent Heights High School since 1999.  Leadership,  Social Studies and teaching English Language learners are her passions.  She is a teacher with a big heart and is heavily involved in Student Council, SADD and Key Club at school.

She believes very strongly in helping others and that half of teaching is actually the relationships that you can build with your students. Her door is always open, and students know that they always have an ear to listen to them and a mentor to ask questions to. She has been a member of the Alberta Student Leadership Association since 2005, becoming the President a couple of years ago.

Outside of school Ms.McCaig(@Heavendawn) is an avid motorcycle rider who puts on about 10,000 km every summer when she’s not working.  She also enjoys world travel and has taken four trips to Africa.  

Connect with Melissa: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Crescent Heights High School School Website

Alberta Association of Student Councils and Advisors

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Heather McKay. She is a social studies teacher and leadership advisor, and she loves leading by example, treating others better than you expect to be treated and she lives that motto to the fullest. She teaches at Crescent Heights high school since the year I was born in 1999. She does amazing work in leadership and in social studies, has a huge heart, as I’m sure you’ll hear through the audio in this episode. She believes very strongly that helping others is a way to teach and that relationships are super important to build with your students. Her door is always open and students know they always have an ear. If they want to chat with her, have some mentorship or ask questions. She also is an avid motorcycle rider.


Sam Demma (00:56):
She puts about 10,000 kilometers in every single summer and she loves traveling and will be taking her fourth trip to Africa this summer. Didn’t actually ask her about that on the episode, but if you do reach out, consider bringing it up and on top of all of this, she is also the president of AASCA, A A S C A, the Alberta Association of Student Councils and Advisors. She’s doing amazing work and I can’t wait to share a little bit of her wisdom, insight, and passion with you in this episode. I hope you enjoy this. I’ll see you on the other side, Heather, thank you so much for coming on the high performing educators podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you just getting over Thanksgiving weekend. I’m glad you had a great time socially distant. Can you tell a little bit about who you are to our audience and why you got into the work you do with young people today?


Heather McCaig (01:45):
Sure. I am a teacher at Cresent Heights High School in medicine hat, Alberta, Canada. And I am also part of AASCA, which is the Alberta Leadership Association for leadership teachers in the province. And I have been doing high school leadership type things since I was in high school. And it just kind of continued throughout my career in various ways. And I have always just wanted to be with kids and help kids out. So I’ve really loved my job.


Sam Demma (02:15):
Where did this passion come from? Did you know in high school and when you were just a student that one day you would be in the positions you are today, or was there someone who pushed you into this direction?


Heather McCaig (02:26):
Not entirely. I’ve, I’ve been extremely blessed with li with amazing parents. And my mom was a teacher as well, and I watched her be involved in a lot of things with her students and with her professional association and that kind of thing. So they may have had a 10 year plan for me. I’m not sure, but I definitely have followed in, in her footsteps and, and all the educators that were around her. Right. I got to watch them and how they worked with kids and the impact they had on people’s lives. And I just decided that if, if I can make somebody else’s life better, that’s something I wanna do.


Sam Demma (02:59):
That’s awesome. And you mentioned you had great parents, I’m sure you had great educators as well. Is there a standout educator that you can think of back when you were in high school that had a huge impact on you? And if there was maybe one or two, if there wasn’t a standout one, can you think about different characteristics that educate, have that make a huge impact on young people and just share those things with the audiences, a reminder to, you know, what we can do right now during this crazy time to make young people feel appreciated and valued?


Heather McCaig (03:29):
Well, I think I was very lucky in having a number of people that I connected with in high school. Yeah. They, they went beyond the classroom, right? They were not just here’s your homework. See you later. And they didn’t care about you as a human being. They always felt that they always made me feel like they cared about me on a deeper level, on a personal level. And if I had a problem, you know, or I looked like, I, I wasn’t happy that day. They actually came and said, Hey, what’s going on? You know, that kind of thing. So I believe it’s those relationship piece. And throughout my, my whole, you know, education, I can think of my grade one teacher who did that, Mrs. Reinhardt, she was amazing. And I still remember things in her classroom because of that. And my grade three teacher, she was a scuba diver and we connected cuz I always wanted to, you know, go swim with turtles and, you know, moving up through, through the grades, there was a always somebody, but it was always that personal relationship piece. So that’s something that I’ve always strived to do with my students is make sure I know what’s going on with them. You know, I help them if I can help them and just be there as a, as a human to lean on not just the educator, as a person in their world, somebody that they can come to if they need it. And I think that really makes a difference in education.


Sam Demma (04:42):
Tell me more about how you strive to do that. Is it just asking questions? Is it like how do you ensure that you get to know your students on a personal level?


Heather McCaig (04:52):
Well, I, I try to pay attention to changes in demeanor even, right? So if I have a kid who comes in and normally for four days in a row, they’re super happy be, and then they look totally bummed out. I’ll take ’em outside and say, Hey, you know, you, you don’t seem like you’re happy self today, are you okay? Is everything fine? Mm. And or if you have a kid that you see crying, you know, you go whisper in their ear. You may not wanna talk to me now, but I’m here. If you need me, you know, feel free to go take a quick little walk, come back at yourself together. Know, but I’m here. If you need me, it’s just those little nuances, right. To let them know, I am somebody willing to talk to you and I’m here. If you need me without pushing them. Right. And, and I think even when you have classes that some of us do on occasion that are high numbered, that kind of thing, you can still make those little tiny nuances and, and they will come to you if they need to talk to you, they will at least know that you’re there. And it does make that difference to them.


Sam Demma (05:49):
I’m sure over the years you embodying that teaching philosophy of being a shoulder to lean on, not just an educator has had a huge impact on the lives of if not hundreds, thousands of students that have gone through your classes and through your leadership. I’m sure you have, as many other educators do a, a bad file folder on your desk, filled with all the notes. that students give you over the years. Can you think of a story that you might want to share? And if it serious story, you can change the name for privacy reasons. Yep. That will display the impact that, you know, living that teaching philosophy had on this young person, just to inspire other educators about the work that you’re doing, why it’s so important and now more than ever needed.


Heather McCaig (06:31):
Well, well, I, this, this spring, actually, I had one of my kids who sort of disappeared during COVID. Cause when, when they, the kids all went home, of course you only had contact on the computer and you could only have contact if they showed up. Yeah. So we couldn’t find this kid. We had no idea where he went and it was his grad year. He needed, you know, 20 credits to graduate. So I looked at in his file and I got his phone number and that didn’t work and I got his address. So I went to his house and knocked on the door and this guy comes up and he didn’t know who this kid was, but he was a grandpa with dementia. So that, that was understandable. And then his dad came around the corner and said, well, this was my step kid.


Heather McCaig (07:15):
They moved out, you know, you go to the gas station, turn left, go three blocks turn. Right. And it’s in the apartment building and you knock on the window. Hmm. So I’m like, okay, so no address, no phone number. Nope. Just talk, knock on the front window of the apartment building. I’m like, okay, so let’s try this. So I go driving and I find an apartment building sort of in the right location. And then I thought, okay, well, I’ve left messages at this number before. And I got a hold of mom once, like a year ago. So I tried again and just out of sheer luck, she answered the phone and I just said, Hey, I think I’m at your house. This is your kid’s teacher. And I really need to talk to him. Would he be home? And she’s like, oh, well, yeah. So she, she arranged for me to get to the right window.


Heather McCaig (08:02):
And I literally banged on the window and got this kid up outta bed in one 30 in the afternoon. And he came up to the front door and he was like, oh my God, Ms. Mckay. And I’m like, Hey, I said, we have some schoolwork to talk about. So many visits later and, and you know, doing homework via the front steps and me standing on the lawn and, and that kind of thing, that kid graduated in the spring. Wow. So, and, and if, if, you know, if I hadn’t have gone that extra mile, he may not have come back to school at all. He was aging out and, you know, he was, had all these other issues, but I mean, that’s one thing that will always stand in my memory.


Sam Demma (08:43):
Hmm. What, what gives you the hope to, to do something like that? What gives you the motivation to do, to take that extra mile and go that extra step? Even during a crazy time? Like COVID?


Heather McCaig (08:53):
Well, I’ve, I’ve always believed that living in Canada and north America and having the life that I’ve had, I’m truly blessed. Mm. So, you know, I know my kids don’t all have that home life. I know, like I have parents that have been together for 65 years. Yeah. So, you know, even a split home can have a huge impact on families no matter how hard they try to keep their kids protected. So if I can, if I can give back any little bit to somebody, to me, that’s huge. If I can have them realize how lucky they are to be where they live and grow up and be here in north America and have the schooling that they have and that kind of thing, they will end up being better people for understand that gratitude piece. Yeah. Because having traveled around the world and watched little kids take water out of a ditch that I know they’re going home to drink, I, I have a greater understanding now of what that actually means to live here. Mm. So I really try and pass that on to my kids.


Sam Demma (09:52):
And the principle of going the extra mile can be applied and everything that we do. I’m curious to know during COVID, have you had any mistakes that you’ve made that you’ve learned from, or great successes that you might wanna share with other educators? And this can be from the perspective of a teacher or also the president of the Alberta leadership student association. And the reason I’m asking is because right now, all educators are learning from throwing spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks, and maybe you found some things that have fallen or stuck, and it would be awesome for you to share Can you hear me, Heather?


Heather McCaig (10:38):
I you’re very digital. We have been attempting things from are you, no,


Sam Demma (10:51):
I’m good. I can hear you now. Can you hear me?


Heather McCaig (10:55):
Oh, you there? Okay. Okay. All right. Yeah, you’re moving again. Perfect. You paused in a really great pose though. okay. So I think we have been trying really hard to find unique ways to do things and reach out to our membership. So we’ve, we’ve our, our leadership team at ASCA have been starting a coffee shop where people can get together and talk. We’ve had members in Calgary that have done some brainstorming to try and find unique things that can be done online. And we’re in the process of trying to build that kind of a resource for our membership so that they have, you know, go to things that they can still do. A couple of the things that we have been attempting just locally is we’re trying to do things that we did in person, but through technology.


Heather McCaig (11:49):
So right now we’re writing stories with seniors with dementia, but we have people at the nursing home that are adults with computers and then kids in the classroom. And we’re still trying to run those programs and we’re trying to mentor young people. So we have great ones with computers and high school kids with computers, and they’re trying to talk back and forth. So it’s, it’s doing what we do, but doing it in ways that we have to right now. And there’s lessons every single second when we’re trying to set up those programs that make them happen. So we’re trying those, you know, a variety of different things to make things work.


Sam Demma (12:25):
That’s awesome. Tell me a little bit more about the, the work you’re doing with seniors with dementia. I would love to hear more. Maybe it’s something that another school could take on if they’re curious and want to get involved?


Heather McCaig (12:37):
For sure. Well, we have always had programs with seniors. So students typically have gone to seniors homes and done different things with the senior citizens. So we have a, a secondary program here in the city that works with seniors homes. So they reached out to, and they have some adults that can go to the seniors home. So the adults are there working with the seniors and then our students are in class and they look at pictures and then they write stories about the, the pictures to help keep the seniors minds kind of sharp and that kind of thing. And then they collaborate on, on writing these stories. So, you know, it could be done in any senior’s home. Realistically, you just have to get the, the pieces together to make it work. And it’s been very successful. The kids are loving it. The seniors are quite enjoying the students. And the stories that are coming out are extremely interesting. And and we’re doing it on a weekly basis right now. So it’s very cool.


Sam Demma (13:35):
I know there’s an increasing need for this sort of a thing. Funny enough that you mentioned seniors at one 30 T I’m actually speaking to a senior’s home in Ajax over the phone. So I got how you said, reached out to someone from the community center. And he said, Hey, Sam, you know, we have a bunch of teenagers who are teenagers. We have a bunch of seniors who are tech challenged, and they don’t have zoom, but we do, you know, teleconferencing, would you be opposed to doing a speech? And I was like, okay. Yeah, but how am I gonna do it? He said, through your cell phone I was like, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we can, we can make this happen. And because they can’t, you know, connect with their family, I think any, any small way to get in touch with them can be a huge impact.


Sam Demma (14:16):
And that could be a cool initiative for any school listening to take on. If you don’t already do things with the seniors in your community. For sure. My, my question to you, there might be a, there might be an educator listening, who is burnt out right now, who needs some words of inspiration who needs a little bit of wisdom from a veteran like yourself? What pieces of advice could you share with them? Maybe it’s an educator who’s in their first year of teaching or an educator who’s been teaching for a long time, but just lost a little bit of their passion.


Heather McCaig (14:46):
For sure. I think all of us are feeling that right now. And I think it’s super important that we continue to reach out to networks of people that can support us, because if you’re sitting there and you’re, your brain is empty and you don’t have any go-to ideas sending that quick little email saying, Hey, do you have anything that you could help me with on blah, blah, blah. And then those of us that are out there in that network, recipro, Kate, it means so much because it can get us over that hump. And we need to remember that we have to be kind to ourselves right now. Every little thing that we do makes a difference. And even if we’re not performing up to where we’re normally consider our standard, we’re still doing the best jobs that we can because this is hitting people way harder in of mental health and isolation and all those other kinds of things, financial burdens, way worse than we ever could imagine. So it’s really, really important that we be kind to ourselves and, and look at gratitude every day, look at caring ourselves every day, doing self care and really reaching out and, and teams and networks where we can support each other, because that’s how we’re gonna get through this.


Sam Demma (15:56):
Hmm. And if any educator listening wants to reach out to you, Heather and bounce some ideas around, or have a conversation, what would be the best way for them to do so?


Heather McCaig (16:05):
They’re more than welcome to email me or call me. So my email address is my name. So heather.mccaig@sd76.ab.ca. And my phone number is (403) 528-0562. And I’m more than happy to share anything and everything I can with people and talk to them. And, and I love helping other people. So, and I can always get great ideas from them too. So it is a win-win.


Sam Demma (16:33):
Always a win-win Heather, thank you so much for taking some of your time to share your insights, wisdom, and stories on the high performing educator podcast. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you.


Heather McCaig (16:43):
You too. Thank you so much.


Sam Demma (16:45):
I almost cried listening back to this episode. And when Heather broke down the impactful and inspired story that she shared about the student in her class, who needed just a little push, just a little more attention, just a little more belief, just a little more, and I hope it inspired you as well. I hope you took some notes. I hope you feel energized and are reminded why it’s so important to go the extra mile and do what we need to do to take care of ourselves and our students, cause they are our future. And if you did enjoy this, please consider leaving a rating and review. It would help more people just like you. More educators find this content and benefit from it. And if you are someone who has inspiring stories to share in education or innovative ideas, please send us an email at info@samdemma.com so we can get you on the show as well. Anyways, I’ll see you on the next episode. Talk soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Melissa Wright

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 19, 2021 by President Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

John Dennison – Student Success Teacher at Corner Brook Regional High School

John Dennison - Student Success Teacher at Corner Brook Regional High
About John Dennison

John(@Jnosinned) is an experienced Special Education Teacher and Student Success Teacher, at Corner Brook Regional High in Corner Brook, Newfoundland, with a demonstrated history of working with Student Leadership in Newfoundland and nationally with the Canadian Student Leadership Association.

John is a graduate from Memorial University of Newfoundland with bachelors and Masters degrees in Education. He is also skilled in Nonprofit Organizations, Coaching, Facilitation, Management, public speaking and Social Media.

John is a very proud father of his son Tyler, a business graduate, working in Corner Brook, and his daughter Andressa who is currently teaching in Alberta. John is retiring from his current position at the end of this current school year, and is looking forward to the unwritten adventures that await him and his wife Katherine in the future.

Connect with John: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Cornerbrook Regional High School Website

Canadian Student Leadership Conference

Memorial University of Newfoundland Programs

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is all the way from Newfoundland and Labrador. He is the student success teacher at Cornerbrook Regional High Western school district. He manages dozens of students who might need just a little additional support, or that might be learning in a slightly different way. Today’s guest John Denson has made a huge impact on students within his region. And what makes his story so inspiring is that the work he’s doing for these young people is very similar to the work that he had and support he had back when he was a student going through a very traumatic time in his own life. You’ll hear his humor, his, his jokes. They’re, they’re pretty good. You’ll also hear his dog barking a little bit. In this episode, it’s a very authentic down to earth interview, and I’m super excited to bring it to you today. John has a heart of gold and you’ll hear about it in this episode. Hope you enjoy this, I’ll see you on the other side. Okay, John, thank you so much for coming onto the high performing educators podcast. Tell the audience where you’re from, the little island that you’re from, that you’re super passionate about. You just told me about, please also explain who you all are and how you got into the work that you’re doing and have done over the past 30 years, almost congratulations in education


John Dennison (01:30):
So, okay, so I’m, I’m like I said to you, I’m, I’m honored to be included in this program again, I’m not quite sure how how I got chosen, but it’s certainly an honor to be included in this wonderful podcast with you. I’m from a little tiny island called Twillingate, off the Northeast coast of Newfoundland. Also known by Readers Digest, pegged it as the iceberg capital of the world, believe it or not. And of course, Newfoundland is the tiny little island off the Northeast coast of North America, half an hour ahead of everybody else, which can sometimes cause glitches when you’re doing podcast interviews, apparently . But anyway, I’m a student success teacher in Corner Brook on the west coast of Newfoundland. And I’ve been engaged with this program for about 10 years now.


John Dennison (02:21):
I’m a special education teacher but this program is designed to work with students who are at risk for whatever reason of not being successful in school. So it’s my task to motivate and try to get them through school with whatever means it takes whatever we can do to support them, their families, whatever, to get them through high school. As compared to who, you know, my special education teacher background, who is who we have the students assigned to us based on exceptionalities, those kinds of things. These, the students I work with now are just students that for whatever reason are not getting through school and are at risk and not being successful all in living through the cracks. But in the meantime, I was introduced 13 years ago, this, this September to the Canadian student leadership conference, just by being asked to tag along as a, a van driver to take some students to St.


John Dennison (03:13):
John’s to a national conference. And and I got hooked, I got hooked line and sinker by as a Newfoundland expression by the whole philosophy of student leadership through council school spirit you know, the motivational pieces of, of watching and motivating students go beyond what they ever thought they were capable of. And as myself as a teacher seeing at this conference you know, motivational speakers like mine, who, who knew that they, their engagement in school was more than just textbooks and notes and, and assignments and tests and quizzes, that there was a bigger role for us all to play in the life of the school and through motivating our students to, to go above and beyond. So, you know, I came back from that conference, totally pumped and, and fueled up, ready to go. I watched my students the same that year as well as my teacher comrade room in Austin, who, who was there with me.


John Dennison (04:18):
And anyway, I kind of like quietly evolved into taking over the student council from my friend Ruben to the point that became, you know, my second passion along with the students that I worked with. And, and we were fortunate enough in 2011, myself and Ruben to host our own student leadership national conference here in Cornerbrook. And and again, that just fueled us and our staff F at the time. And and you know, it’s just been wonderful experience. And, you know, it’s, it’s something that has certainly made the last 13 years of my career a much more enjoyable component and, and aspect to, to being the teacher that I guess I never really knew I was, but found a, that I could be all through student leadership and student engagement and all these wonderful things.


Sam Demma (05:06):
It’s so cool. They say that the teacher learns the most, right. And you know, you’re at the same time, you’re also the student. And it sounds like you embody that philosophy, which I think is so important, you know, remind ourselves that, you know, even though we’re teaching, we’re still growing. And I think that’s a, a beautiful mindset to have, especially during a difficult time you’ve been doing this on the cusp for 30 years. that’s yeah. 10 years older than I’ve been alive.


John Dennison (05:33):
I’m yeah. Fortunately you can’t see the gray in my beard because this is all on this is just an audio version, but yeah. But yeah, I still look like I’m like 19 years old, to be honest, my voice sounds a little more mature, but no, just kidding. You got anyway. Yeah. 30 years.


Sam Demma (05:50):
Yeah. You got the energy of a young person. And that’s a huge compliment


John Dennison (05:55):
well, thank you. It is only Wednesday though. so talk to me Friday.


Sam Demma (06:02):
Depends when people tune in, but you’re so right. What keeps you going 30 years? What keeps you motivated and hopeful and inspired?


John Dennison (06:11):
It’s funny. I, I, I, I don’t wanna talk about myself a lot. I, I, I left high school. I was 16 when I graduated from high school, believe it or not, because my birthday is at the end of December. Mm. And when I left high school, my dad passed away when I was 12. And, and quite, quite ultimately I became lost soul as well. And I know now looking back that I was depressed, I was getting had marks, and I was wishing I was getting higher marks with all my good friends sitting around the back of the class with me kind of thing. And somehow, and, and I won’t get into the whole story, but I stumbled into education. And you know, I landed myself in this position and then all these different pieces of puzzle came together that, that put me in the opportunity to work with students who were me ultimately, you know, like I, I, I, when I did my special education degree, I had the goal to to diagnose myself as a gifted underachiever.


John Dennison (07:10):
And I think that’s probably a lot more common than what we realize is that, you know, there are a lot of gifted underachievers out there who just need somehow to see the light. And I guess, through a number of different things that came away, I landed in a perfect job for me. And it’s, it’s just fueled me to reach out to those people that need reach, to be reached out to, and you know, like even today, and, you know, in, in my 29th and so many months, year, I met a young fellow today, two young fellows today, actually, who are down and out, and they’ve got their issues at home and they’re struggling to get through school. I had the conversation with them about me. I reflected back to me who would, you know, my situation, which is too many years ago, for me to even tell you, you know, and, and they connected and I managed to connect with them.


John Dennison (07:59):
So those connections are really the opportunity each day. So I can’t wait to go to school again tomorrow just to see if he came back and they came back. And if they’re there and if they’re not trying to figure out what I can do to, to bring them back, you know, and, and I’ve realized over the years, one of the most important lessons I’ve learned, I think is a teacher is a that I can’t win them all. I can’t win all the battles. It, it takes more than me wanting it. It has to be, the student has to want it. Somehow. I have to instill it in their heart. That it’s one that an education of being successful has to be one of their top three priorities. It has to be beyond getting the drugs and the hits. And, and sometimes it has to be number four, getting fed for that day or whatever the case may be. So you know, it’s just, it’s just that fuel and that passion is still in there. And I don’t think it’ll ever leave me. When I do retire, I’ll find something to help somebody somewhere, you know, just kind of build to me. And again, that’ll lose back to my parents and all those kinds of things, but that’s amazing. It’s just, it’s just an important thing. My dog’s barking in the background. I think she wants to come in, but anyway, that’s okay.


Sam Demma (09:12):
<Laugh>


John Dennison (09:13):
I was gonna, I could go on a complete, other tangent on how a Labrador retriever has changed my life and view perspectives on everything too, but


Sam Demma (09:20):
We can talk dogs for sure. I love that. You mentioned, could


John Dennison (09:25):
We, well, I’ll just throw this at you very quick. I’ve had two Labrador retrievers and they’ve taught no matter who shows up at our front door. And this is something that I try to take in perspective, no matter who shows up in my front door, and you could be colored, you could be wearing a turbine. You could be a police officer. You could be looking for food for the food bag, my dog, my Labrador retrievers each and every one of em have always just want to be there. Friends. If you just wanna pet, they wanna lie down. I’ll let you rub their belly. And it really doesn’t matter what color you are, what gender you are, what, what, you know, what, what LGBTQ status you are or who you are that you are welcome to them for a rub on their belly or a pat on their head. And it’s just kind of like something that I’ve watched and realized that yeah, that makes a lot of sense to me. Thank you, Molly. Thank you, candy. So I love that.


Sam Demma (10:17):
That’s so cool. Anyway, that’s awesome. There you, do. You still have them both.


John Dennison (10:21):
Actually candy passed away, but now I have Malia chocolate lab and I have Marley who’s a little Heese, which in, interestingly enough, I brought back to Newfoundland from CSLC 2009. Wow. In Cochran, Alberta, they both flew down on the plane with me. So they’re my CSLC dogs. Yeah.


Sam Demma (10:38):
So they’re just ingrained in leadership as much as you are. yeah.


John Dennison (10:42):
Yeah. Cool. Yep. It’s is they they’ve taught us a lot. Molly’s chocolate lab, the little Heese is still only 15 pounds. And I’ve learned some things about bullying. Interestingly enough, from the dogs and, and size does matter when it comes to nature. And in some respect bullying, because my chocolate lab will just push the little white dog out of the way, and she’s gonna get, you know, the treat first or whatever. And her little white dog just has to succumb to that. So there’s, I’ve talked about this to some of the kids and, and, you know, like my, my white dog has just accepted it, but still has kept the big chocolate lab as being his best friend. You know? So there’s like, there’s a way to accept, like you’re not really being bullied necessary and it’s not so much the order of size in the species. It’s just kind of like coming to grip, you know, you’re not all gonna be in first place. And, you know, sometimes you have good to make way for the big guy that’s bumbling by first and those kinds of things. Yeah, no, that’s fine. I dunno, sidetrack, you can delete that part if you want to.


Sam Demma (11:50):
Nah, I wanna leave it in the, the authentic stories make this thing so relatable and interesting and you need, especially to your own life.


John Dennison (11:56):
And, and I don’t know if it’s a, it’s like an answer for anybody who’s being bullied, but I think its just, you just realize, you know, this stuff goes on in nature and I’m sure that, you know, in our woods right now and it’s moose hunting season inland that a big gold moose is gonna make with the, the, the pretty female moose over the smaller bull moose just because he is bigger and that’s the way nature works and yeah, you’re right. But in nature sometimes that’s the way things play out anyway. Yeah. Maybe we overthink things too much. Maybe I spent too much time wondering about my chocolate lab pushing my little white thing away from the tree bowl anyway.


Sam Demma (12:33):
That’s okay. I love it. Can you, I know you food for lots of food for thought you would definitely have, you know, dozens, if not dozens, hundreds, if not hundreds, thousands of stories of young people who have come across your classroom, come across your experience, who have had an impact on, do you mind sharing a story and it could be a story that’s you deeply and you can change the student’s name in the sake of privacy. But the reason I want, I want you to share the story is because an educator might be listening. Maybe this is their first year in education and things are so different where they’re living and they’re getting the whole wrong view of what an educator can do for a young person’s life and the impact they can have. Yeah. And, and inspiring story about impacting and changing a young person’s life will remind them by the work they’re getting into is needed now more than ever and really important. Do you have any stories that come to mind?


John Dennison (13:27):
Yeah. And again, it’s hard because , it’s people aren’t naturally, well, I shouldn’t say people because I, I guess Donald Trump is sorry Donald, I threw that out there, but it, but it’s hard to, it’s hard to, I guess, talk about my successes without, you know, trying to become the all end all, but yeah, but anyway, I’ll, I’ll share a couple of stories. I know one of the very first and, and the two stories I can think of that really popped in my head are we have time for two, of course of, I guess if I don’t ramble one has to do with my student success position and the other has to do with my role as a leadership teacher, I guess, and, and student council advisor. I, I remember one of the first students I ever had way back in 2000 leadership role just sort of showed up at our, our high school.


John Dennison (14:20):
Cause I also help early school leaders. We call them now back in the day there were dropouts, but the early school lever term is the nice friendly term for a student who dropped outta school. But this is a student who, this was a young girl who left the high school. And at the time when she left high school, she was babysitting for a local owner and, and she kind of just walked out of school and started a babysitting for, for this particular family. And as when she reached 19, he kind of offered her a job as a bartender or, or his wife did or whatever. And, and she kind of like, she kind of did both things. She was so she was doing making money and stuff and she was content. Anyway, she came knocking on our door one, one September because she was gonna apply to go back to school, to do her early childhood education in training to kind of like open a daycare or, or work at a daycare because she en enjoyed the babysitting and wanted to get outta the bar business because who doesn’t wanna get outta the bar business.


John Dennison (15:22):
Anyway, she realized when she came in that she’d never graduated of all these years, there was probably three years after high school that she thought she had graduated. She was missing one in, in English. Now in, in Newfoundland, we have a general graduation and we have academic and there’s an honors graduation. And she was tr she was looking to graduate generally, which is kinda like, which will get you into community college and an opportunity to upgrade if you wanted to go to university. So anyway, long story short, she ended up doing an English course with kind of online because back then I did have some courses that were not, not virtual, quite like today’s virtual, but there were courses that she could do from home online with a couple of textbooks and email me assignments. So she didn’t have to come into the building to continue working at home.


John Dennison (16:07):
And, and we could, you know, establish that re teacher, student relationship. She was successful. She graduated and she’s now, you know, a proud mom, she’s gotta open her own daycare and been super successful. And, and she always knocks on my door at Christmas time and, and brings me something. A lot of, lot of people know me will appreciate the fact that nine times outta 10, it’s a liquor store give. But anyway you know, and it’s not about the gift, but it’s the fact that she comes in and she has that smile on her face, the same smile that she had the day that I told her. Sure, we can fix this and this is how we’re gonna do it and you’re gonna be fine. You know, it’s just, it’s, it’s just amazing to think back that you know of myself and, you know, wishing that I had somebody who could have reached out to me like that and provided me that opportunity, cuz I was 2% away from getting into university when I left high school.


John Dennison (17:05):
And you know, it took me three years to convince Memorial university to take me. And if I just had somebody at that, that that to go to bat for me and help me figure out how to get those two percents, you know, and anyway, I’m over it now doesn’t sound like it, but I’m over it so anyway, that that’s that, but those are the aspects. Those are the, those are the, the pieces of the puzzle that really help. And, and there’s been quite a few, like you said, there’s, there’s, there’s been well almost 10 years now of, of working with students that, you know, were down and out and needed a little extra something. But, but for the, the teacher that may be listening that’s that, you know, is also got, I am in a unique position cuz the teacher is listening is also worried, most likely worried about, you know, the government exams, the final exams, tests and scores admit wanting, you know, how the overall percentage is for their class.


John Dennison (18:03):
I’m in a very unique position in the sense that I really get to know I’m paid, get to know at, you know, sure. Maybe 80, 90 kids a year, but, but I held them and find out what makes them tick and really be able to, you know, use a priv, whatever it takes to get them up after a and up running or whatever the case may be to start making right decisions and some, some support in making some good choices, those kinds of things. So I get that. I’m unique in that, but I think just connecting with students is so, so, so important and being able to identify a little bit of who they are and what they are and find out where they want to go and, you know, instill on their, and that even if it is a biology or a science or a math or an English class, you’re teaching them, making them somehow connect those little steps and you know, that they’re making in those classes and doing those assignments leads to the bigger steps and the bigger picture that, that whatever their future is that they want.


John Dennison (19:08):
And it’s mind boggling to me to think that so many of the kids in high school right now, the careers aren’t even invented at this point that they’ll be doing, I haven’t got my head around that, but I see it because I’ve the 30 years I’ve taught, we’ve gone from having two or three computers in a school to everybody has a phone now. And everybody has the technology that, that, that 30 years ago we never thought we’d have. And I often think back too about, you know, if I could show my dad who died in 78, I remember he was big on this calculator. He had, that had memory. He bought that summer and an old Polaroid SX, 70 camera that, that, that spit out picture right in front of him. If he could see the photography that a cell phone, the technology in a cell phone and what things are now, I mean, it’s just mindboggling to think what’s happened in my lifetime.


John Dennison (19:59):
You know, the, so anyway, another bit you can cut out if you feel the need later on. The story I have is from a student council, president of mine who who’s got a very special place in my heart. She, her mother passed away. She found her mother dead on her kitchen floor. When she was in grade nine, I think it was, it was the year before we hosted our national conference. And she came to our school as a grade 10 student just after losing her mom, put her, I encouraged her to get involved with student council only because I knew, I knew a little bit of her family. I knew who she had been, not I’d known her, her sisters before. And I knew that she had a spark in her just because of her mom really, and having known her family, that she was to any student council that I was part of and, you know, lock story short.


John Dennison (21:00):
She, she did get involved. She became the president in her grade 12 year and, and she led like many, I’ve had some really strong leaders. She definitely was one of the top, you know, three to five for sure. Went on to become a, a nursing student at Dalhousie has just finished a road scholarship at Oxford and has just been accepted. I hope Micah hope you don’t hear this cause I might get it wrong. I think Berkeley in California to start med school. So she’s a nurse, she’s got a PhD in psychology and she’s off the med school in California and this girl she’s done Ted talks. She, she organized a charity in her mother’s name under the, the cancer society after biking across the province and then hosting, I think it was the equivalent of 10 marathons in 10 days. She organized a charity in her mom’s name that provides money for the transportation of families to be with their family member who’s receiving treatment in St.


John Dennison (22:11):
John’s or in Halifax. She’s got two chapters when she opened it in. She opened the chapter as well in, in a, in Nova Scotia. And she’s just a phenomenal young lady. She always you know, pays homage to me as being a contributor in that which I’m, you know, humbled by because, you know, I just, I really just did what I did for her, what I tried to do for all my students. And that’s just chat and say hello and find out what ticks and help support them and point them in whatever direction it is they wanna go and they need help to find. So that’s kind of, so anyway, it’s, it’s every, every student isn’t a opportunity and every student has something to offer and every student needs an adult in their life and they may already have it, but they also need a teacher just to say, good morning to them in the morning and goodbye to them in the afternoon.


John Dennison (23:06):
And we’ll see you tomorrow more kind of thing. And I think little bits and pieces are important and I don’t stand in the entrance of the building every day and, you know, greet everybody. I don’t, you know, go outta my way to say hello to everybody. But if I’m in the hall and I see people, then I will make sure that they feel if they look uncomfortable or whatever, that, that they’re happy to be there. And you know, if they don’t need me, they’re not going to hear from me. But if, if I get a vibe that maybe they need to say hello, or how are you doing? Is everything okay? Then they’re gonna hear that too. And I think just, you know, making that extra connection besides assigning tests and quizzes and assignments and those kinds of things, but yeah, it was good. It’s a big task. It’s a tall order. It’s huge, but very rewarding.


Sam Demma (23:52):
I was, I was gonna ask you, how do we make young people feel cared for and how do we make them feel appreciated? Is it by those small gestures? Like if there’s a teacher listening right now,


John Dennison (24:03):
It can be, it can be everything. I think from a wink to a smile, wink works well these days with COVID mass on the go knows if it smiles. But, and then of course it is 2020. A wink can be misinterpreted, but usually if it’s coming from a 55 or old bald man, that’s a teacher in your school is probably okay. anyway, it’s, I’ve gotten away with it anyway. But it’s usually followed up with some conversation. But I think it can be anything from, you know the breakfast club, making sure students, you know, just walking through and just connecting, just saying, hello, just how are things going? What are you doing? What can I, you know, it’s just a, a welcome mat. It’s just, I mean, I don’t, I’m not, I don’t take all the advice for my Labrador retriever.


John Dennison (24:55):
I don’t roll around on the floor, expecting people to Rob and tickle my belly, but somehow, you know, my dog could do that. And that, that somehow makes a connection. So it’s just figuring out what to do, then lie down and roll and ask people to pick your tickle, your belly, that that makes them connected somehow. You know another instance that just happened today, for example, a young girl who I knew, I know she ran for student council last year. Didn’t get on, she didn’t get elected. And I just happened to see her today. And we had our meetings today of, of, for our, any students interested in running. And I said to her, I said, you didn’t, you didn’t, you didn’t come to our meeting today. Are you not interested in running for student council this year? And she said, well, no. She said, I struggled with it a little bit last year.


John Dennison (25:43):
And you know, she said, I didn’t get elected and I was kind of, and that kind of stuff. And I said, okay. I said, I totally get that. I said, you know, there’s my daughter ran. She didn’t get elected. And she, she really was uncomfortable with the whole student council thing for a while. But I said, if you stop and think about it, look at you right now. You’re a year older. You’re, you’re more mature. You’re alive. You’re doing well in school. You seem happy cuz every time I see you have a smile on your face. So it wasn’t really that bad you got over it. You’re a little bit stronger for it. Believe it or not. You went through adversity and you’re still smiling and you’re able to talk to me about it. So I would be more than happy to see you throw your hat in the ring again, listen, you remember, you’ve got nothing to lose next year, this time we could potentially be having the same conversation.


John Dennison (26:31):
Sure. You didn’t make it, but you stuck your neck out there and you tried and you gave it your best shot. So if you’re, you know, I just said, if you’re not really interested and it’s not something you want this year don’t bother. But if you think you’ve still got something to offer, well, give it a shot. And don’t forget. We also have two positions on each grade level that are teacher nominee positions. So maybe, you know, you could come and ask a teacher to nominate you and you could be part of the council that way. So anyway, five story short that was at lunch and sometimes you’re wrote the afternoon. She came and sat in the chair next to my desk and she said, you’ve got me thinking about it and she might just run. But anyway, my fingers are crossed. I better not say it secretly for her to run.


John Dennison (27:13):
Oh darn I can’t, I can’t be too supportive. Anyway. I just hope that she runs and we will. Let’s just say, if she’ll be more than welcome if she wins, how does that sound anyway? That’s awesome. It’s you know, it’s just, it’s just making those connections, you know, remembering a face from last year, remembering seeing somebody down and asking them how they are or just, you know, having the opportunity to reach out awesome. Again, it’s, it’s, they’re all different. You know, the, the government tends to, and this is advice for teachers. The government tends to come now with blanket policies that expect every round student to fit in a square hole. And it just doesn’t work in education. We’re a gray science education is a gray science and one size does not fit all. And as a matter of fact, one of the sizes looks really stupid on some. So, you know, it’s, it’s just the, it is. But if we can get the best out of each of them, that’s all we can ask for, but we don’t get paid. We get paid to set up the trough for success, but we don’t get paid for pushing their heads down in the water or in the, so we just gotta roll with that. And every second Thursday we get paid. So there’s that bonus. Yeah.


Sam Demma (28:27):
True. That’s awesome. John, look, I could talk to you for hours on hours. There’s so much wisdom, so many stories to share. I’m sure we’ll do a part two and a part three. If there’s an educator listening right now, who’s thinking, you know, I just got into, this is my first year. This isn’t what I signed up for. This seems crazy. What was advice? Do you wanna end this episode sharing with them?


John Dennison (28:50):
Oh, it’s crazy. No doubt. It’s crazy. Hang on for the ride of your life. It’s interesting because my daughter, I love her she’s high school trained, but she’s in year two of teaching primary elementary in Alberta and she you know, she’s struggling this year. She taught out grade three last year and like I said, she’s high school trained. And this year she’s teaching grade four, so a second lot of curriculum. So I, I know we’ve talked and she’s struggling a little bit with the whole idea of am I cut out to be a teacher? And you know, the reality is you’re not everybody is. I remember I love this little Tibit my mom at my wedding. She, she stood up at the microphone. This was the, this was the year actually I had just started teaching. I had six months in and she said there were two reasons that she knew of that I became a teacher and one was July and the other was August and, and, you know, looking back, there’s nothing wrong with those summer vacations.


John Dennison (29:49):
But I think it’s like everything. It’s like every career I’ve been so fortunate that I’ve gotten this gone to work every morning with a smile on my face. And I’ve left with a smile on my face the last day of the summer before each day of school in September, I have trouble falling asleep because it’s, it’s more about, it’s not anxiety. It’s more about and maybe it’s anxious, but it’s more an excited, anxious about what we’re gonna do. Who am I gonna face? Who the new kids are, you know? And if you can get that passion for your teaching career somehow and real every, we have the opportunity to influence thousands of students in our careers, but the reality is if we do it right, we’re influencing generations upon generat upon generations. Because if I did my job right, 30 years ago, then those parents now something I said or something I entrenched deeply inside them is influencing their kids and so on and so forth.


John Dennison (31:01):
And that’s some something that, that I know it sounds awfully conceded or perhaps a little, you know, top heavy. But if we do our jobs, right, we’re not just teaching them how to go on to university and do better in sciences or English or math or become doctors or lawyers. We’re in, we’re influencing them and how to be become good strong members of society. And I also believe that it takes welders. It takes pipefiters. It takes Walmart greeters, Tim Horton’s workers, doctors, and lawyers, and politicians to change the world and to do good things in the world. It’s not just the high end. It’s, it’s all, it’s all perspective. It’s every student in the building has an opportunity and has just needs a catalyst and just needs to realize that their potential is huge. And we’ve seen that was some of the, you know, some of the protests worldwide, that it’s a shame that some of the incidents that have happened have the result has had to have been protests and those kinds of things.


John Dennison (32:17):
But, but you know, there’s definitely voices out there. There are definitely voices that we need to hear. And a lot of them are young voices. So anyway, because I I’ve always felt it a bit cliche to say that you are the next generation, you, your generation can change the world, whereas they can’t. Yeah. And we’re starting to see that in 20, 20, 20, 21, because hopefully because my, my generation, you know, has helped them in instill that in them, hopefully. True. So anyway, your job next, putting all the pressure on, and you’re doing your part, you’re doing your part, but yeah, no, we can definitely do another part down the road. Well, actually comfortable than I thought.


Sam Demma (32:59):
You’re, you’re a pro. This seems awesome. If anyone wants to reach out to you and talk about some of the stories or just connect, maybe it’s another educator from a different province. What’s the best way for them to get in touch?


John Dennison (33:09):
With you? So I, I’m not a huge fan of Facebook only because I found that it just became too much of what the randomness people do in their day. That that really, I don’t have time to pull around with. I’m on Twitter @Jnosinned, which is Dennison backwards. That was something I maybe we’ll save that story for another time. It’s a good story. It’s something that, that young teachers could do with their with their students sometime for entertainment. Is all about putting your name backwards anyway @Jnosinned. But if you look for John Dennison, I think you’ll find me. My email, school email is johndennison@nlesd.ca ,newfound Labrador English school district cell phone. Now won’t go there. school phone school phone is (709) 634-5828.


John Dennison (34:12):
Cool. they want meal find Google’s amazing that way. Yeah. But definitely reach out. I certainly don’t don’t mind sharing anything, you know, if there’s any future employers out there, by the way I may be looking for, Hey here, I never thought about this before. , here’s, here’s an opportunity to have me come to your school and work for a living or somewhere else. I’ve noted actually that the prison system in Hawaii apparently hires retired teachers to come and work. So the idea of moving from the iceberg capital, the world to probably the volcano capital of the world is kind of appealing, but anyway, we’ll see, but there’s anyway, it suits the, maybe you’ve heard enough for me today.


Sam Demma (34:59):
No, man, I can’t get enough. I’m loving is one of my favorite conversations, but we will, we will wrap it up there and I’m gonna thank you, John, for taking some time to chat and I’ll have you on again soon. This has been a pleasure.


John Dennison (35:11):
Ah, no sweat. I’m I’m here. I’m here. Maybe we’ll start doing a monthly report from the rock


Sam Demma (35:18):
I’m so I’m so down.


John Dennison (35:19):
Cool. And when Dave, when Dave con listens to this and I’m sure my good friend, Dave will listen there will be no screeching involved, Dave, and I don’t think we’ll be doing a, a pod screech in either. So unless, unless Sam, unless you get lots of requests, maybe we could do an after 10?


Sam Demma (35:37):
I’m I’m open to it. love it, John. All right. Thank you so much. Okay. Take care of my friend, such an impactful interview. So many amazing stories. John has so much wisdom to share so much positive energy. I really hope that I can go and meet him soon in person after COVID passes. I think we’d have amazing conversations and I encourage you to reach out to him as well. He would probably love to hear from you. In fact, I’m sure he would absolutely love to hear from you. And I would, I would love for, for you to connect with him. If you did enjoy this, please take two seconds to consider leaving a rating and review. It’ll help more educators, just like you find this content and benefit from it. And if you are someone who has ideas and inspiring stories in education, shoot us an email at info@samdemma.com so we can get you on the show as well. Anyways, I’ll see you on the next episode. Talk soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with John Dennison

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 19, 2021 by Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Brian Dunn – Chaplain at St. Francis Xaiver C.S.S

Brian Dunn - Chaplain at St. Francis Xaiver C.S.S
About Brian Dunn

Brian Dunn has been a Chaplaincy Leader for the Halton Catholic District School Board for 16 years and currently serves at St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School in Milton. As a proud graduate of St. Michael’s College (University of Toronto) Master of Catholic Leadership degree, he continues his passion and vision of Catholic Leadership within his school community by coordinating retreats and the student government, The Knights Council, that encourages all students and staff to get involved in leadership.

Brian provides opportunities for his staff and students to become leaders that reflect the call of Jesus in the Gospel to become Students of Service (S.O.S.) ‘to accept, include and serve with love’ by presenting a Catholic worldview that encourages them to see the world through the eyes of faith. “

“In our S.O.S. Knights Council it is imperative that all students and staff work as equal partners with our Best Buddies, Safe Schools, Media/Tech Crew, Grade Reps, Social Justice and HCDSB Student Senators making our priority to hear the voices of those who are the most vulnerable in our school and the local community.”

Brian also hosts a morning broadcast on Youtube to pray for the needs of our school community, the world and to share school initiatives.

Brian’s passion for music, both secular and religious can be heard as he entertains with his band Descendants of Dunn.

As well, Brian also enjoys his solo performances where he will even write a song – Singing Telegram – for any special occasion to celebrate! He is the proud father of two boys Jacob and Jamie and has been married to his wife Carey for 16 years. Brian lives by the family motto passed down from his father ‘keep the faith, and a sense of humour and God will look after the rest.’

Connect with Brian: Email | Instagram | Linkedin |

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Masters of Catholic Leadership degree

Brian’s morning broadcast

St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School

Stream Yard Software

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest is my good friend and Chaplin Brian Dunn. I had the pleasure of working with him in September at his school St. Francis of Xavier to do the opening keynote speech for his grade nines. It was phenomenal. And he is someone I look up to. He is someone who is always looking for new ways to engage and impact his students. You can even see it on this episode as he plays in music during the intro and outro, but I’m not gonna ruin it for you. Anyways, I hope you enjoy this episode. Make sure you take notes and reach out to Brian. He’s a wonderful human being. I’ll see you on the other side, Brian, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. It is an absolute pleasure to have you on here. Why don’t you start by sharing a little bit about yourself and how you got into the work you do with young people today?


Brian Dunn (00:50):
Well, Sam, I gotta tell you before we begin, I, I have to say one of the ways I got involved with young people was through what I’m about to do right now. And it goes like this. I got a smile on my face. Now I got four walls around me. I got the sun in the sky, all the waters around me. Oh, you know? Yeah. I went down. Sometimes I lose. I’ve been better, but I’ll never bruise. It’s not so bad. And I say, wait, Hey, Hey, it’s just an ordinary day. And it’s all your stay at the end of the day. You just have to say it’s alright. Cause I got a smile on my face and I got four walls around me.


Sam Demma (02:00):
Ooh, everyone. Please give Brian a huge round of applause from your cars all around wherever you’re sitting, wherever you’re listening. that’s awesome. Brian, how to say


Brian Dunn (02:12):
That Anthem for me. I started when I started in ministry I worked for the the CYO, the Catholic youth organization in Hamilton. And that song just come out by great big sea. And I was looking for sort of like an inspirational something to help me keep perspective. And a friend of mine said, you know what? This is like, this is a great song. And then we learned it and I’ve sort of used it as my Anthem. Since that day to get involved with young people the power of music with young is everything. It’s, it’s just, it’s incredible and not only for them, but for for me to be able to develop a relationship in terms of, you know, journeying with them through, through music and through motivation. And sometimes it gives us words that we cannot say.


Brian Dunn (03:01):
So in, in that song, you know, obviously it’s just these ordinary days and it it’s similar to what you’ve talked to our students about already Sam and the small actions small, consistent actions. It’s like in these every ordinary days. How do we, how do we go? And especially in COVID all these times every day, it’s like, oh my gosh, goodbye for these kids sitting there looking at they got the mass on and they’re, you know, just told just sort of scared to, to even move or answer a question or, or do whatever. But we have to say, all right, in this ordinariness in sort of things that it feels like everything’s happening, you know just mundane. How do we make these ordinary days extraordinary? And I think music is a key obviously moving forward with with all the different things that are happening in the world, we need to step out of our comfort zones to help others.


Brian Dunn (04:03):
And music is a, is a great way to do that. So yeah. So I’m really excited to be here you know, share a little bit of maybe some of the stuff that I’ve done at this school. This has been, this has been my this is the school St. Francis savior, Catholic secondary. We just renamed our school. We were Jean Banay for the first six years. So we’re in the process of reestablishing and redefining who we are as a school community. Mm-Hmm and it’s not changing what it was. It’s just reminding people, the foundation of who we are and the foundation that we are truly built on faith and the action, faith and action, basically in our motto. That’s awesome. So, yeah, so I don’t know. I don’t know how I’ll let you, do you want me to continue on with that topic or I don’t know. What are you feeling today?


Sam Demma (05:00):
Yeah, I mean, I wanna to know, I’m curious to know at what point in your journey as a teacher or as a, as a person, did you decide ministry is the thing for me and I wanna play music. And was there defining moments or, you know, another educator in your life who pushed you down that path? I’m, I’m curious to know more.


Brian Dunn (05:18):
Yeah, I mean, for me everything starts with family. You know, we growing up I grew up in Anne caster, Ontario, and my parents were very involved in St. Anne’s parish in Anne caster. And we were always our house was always sort of the hub of I, I I’m the youngest of seven. So being the baby, I had all these brothers and sisters that would bring home their girlfriends and boyfriend. And I sometimes didn’t know who my parents were all the time at . But it was a house that we really celebrated. So every weekend we would, you know, make sure that we had the priest over and celebrate. And faith to us was inter interlock with music and family mm-hmm . So faith, music, and family was like a big deal for us.


Brian Dunn (06:07):
So I, I kind of grew up that way. And so when, you know, starting to think about what I wanted to do for my life I always had positive role models in faith. That surrounded me always encouragement from my parish priests at my at my parish my parents many people would come to me like take time out and say, you know what? We started a youth group at our church and, and then people would say, you know what, you’re doing a, you’re doing a great job. This is, you know, you were always validated by others that when you stepped outta your comfort zone, people were like, yeah, man, like you’re doing a good job. Keep going. And people don’t realize the impact that, that has, especially on a young person that’s, you know, in a, in an age where, you know, probably having faith was not the coolest thing.


Brian Dunn (06:58):
You know, in terms of being popular, but it was important that the people you looked up to said, good job. You know, just those little words of encouragement helped. So after starting a youth group called a generation acts, you know what I invited all of my friends, I invited, I knew people that didn’t believe in God, people that were whatever they’re big smokers, whatever, like a, anybody, I was just like, guys, come out to this youth group. Like, you know, we don’t have to, you don’t have to talk about too much, but this is, you know, we would like to try to do some stuff for my church and do some volunteer, work in the community and make sure that we’re serving and helping others. And you know, what, we had ended up getting good 15 for 20 my friends together. And, and just starting, just starting to say, you know what, church begins with us.


Brian Dunn (07:44):
It begins with, it begins with who we are as leaders, and you can’t rely on other people to say, oh, come up with this idea or this idea, you know what, just come up with the idea and do it. I know you have done that too at the, you know, a lot of the things that you’ve done, Sam and you know, mean starting with the, the whole picking up trash thing. And, you know, it’s, it’s gotta be something that idea is started, but it’s also someone did someone tell you that you were doing a good job? That was a teacher? My parents. Exactly. Yeah. Like those supports that were, that were there. So from there again, like God opens doors, you Don know another person said, you know what? You would be good in chaplaincy. I didn’t even know didn’t I had one at my, at my school, but he was a brother.


Brian Dunn (08:28):
Like he was an ordained sort of ordained brother. And I’m like, you know, what am I, I, I’m just sort of like a, just like a regular guy. Well, how could I be a chaplain? And as I learned that the fact that we can to actually take courses and similar and get fully trained and educated as a chaplaincy leader and ended up getting my masters in Catholic leadership, which was something I’m that degree that master’s program was just sort of being developed as I was taking it. Nice. And, you know, it’s just, God opens doors, but you gotta take the steps. Right. Mm-hmm and the people encouraging you along the way. Just so, so important. I think also working when I worked at the sea, I O I was involved with world youth days. Okay. And world youth day, 2002 was in Toronto.


Brian Dunn (09:20):
And we played a major role in hosting people from different countries and seeing the church alive in so many ways. In Toronto, we had, we hosted pro a couple hundred people from around the world, in our diocese and the Hamilton diocese. And we were in charge of different locations and different things. So it was cool to see faith alive in those people and know that our church is universal. So other people, you know, other leaders from around the world really it’s that, that gathering. And then 2005 was Germany. We actually went to Germany, brought a delegation from Hamilton and again, an amazing when you’re being hosted across the world, you know and, and you still feel connected as a sort of that as a church, as young people who are, who are being motivated to serve our Lord.


Brian Dunn (10:12):
It’s, it’s amazing, amazing again, D people along the way, saying you’re doing a good job, you’re going the right way. Things, you know, and also your prayer life. It’s like, okay, God’s giving you those opening doors through people. And that led me to into chaplaincy where I was asked of a, fill a role for for Halton through my involvement with worldview. They saw a lot of the things that, you know, we were able to establish leadership that way, and they liked that vision. And 17 years later, I’m here at St. Francis Xavier secondary school. That’s awesome. So that’s a, yeah, it’s pretty, pretty amazing along the way.


Sam Demma (10:53):
But yeah, that’s awesome. Brian, during these times, and they’re challenging times for everyone in education, how do we continue to encourage kids and give them that tap on the shoulder? You, you mentioned earlier about, you know, trying to integrate creative ideas right now in the schools. Is there anything that’s worked out that’s been a great success or that you’ve realized maybe you we’ve shipped away the you fat and realize what’s most important about school and what’s most important about building relationships? What are some realizations or challenges you’ve you come across due to COVID?


Brian Dunn (11:28):
I think, you know, what, the challenges that we all face we have to make sure that our students know that we’re facing them as well. Don’t gloss over things and say, you know, oh, you know, well, this is, this is working so good. And, you know, it’s making me feel good. And the kids are like, what the, you know I mean, I have a son that’s in grade nine now. I’ve worked all my life, so that to build young Catholic leaders, to give opportunities for kids. And then my kid gets to grade nine and he can’t do anything. It’s like, Ugh. So it’s like, man, come on God. Like, this is, this was, I was so excited. You know, he was involved in elementary, but I’m saying, okay, so this is a challenge. This is something we are facing and we’re sort of facing together.


Brian Dunn (12:16):
But we’re going through it together. And we’re saying, listen, one day at a time, we’re gonna face this, but how can we use this as an opportunity? So I had my son come in and he was doing some filming. So we did some filming at the school for our mentees. We have a great mentorship program here at St. Francis Xavier, where the grade elevens are mentoring the grade nines. So I got ’em to come in and, and play a grade nine student asking questions, who to go to in the school. And we decided to come together to make a YouTube channel for our school, which is on our website. So we invite anybody to go to St. Xavier, Milton website and check out our YouTube channel. Right now it’s called the Knights council report where we’re reporting on all the school events.


Brian Dunn (13:05):
So it’s kind of cool, but again, what are ways, what are opportunities? What things can we do? And obviously you media, just like you’re doing Sam is the most important thing that we can do to get students involved. Whether they’re in cohort, a cohort B or cohort C everybody tunes in at 8:20 every morning for the night’s council report, where we do our morning prayer, we pray for people in our school community, especially those who are struggling or have just lost, loved ones, but we also celebrate the same of the day. And we pray as a school community. And then we move on to our Knight’s council report, where we talking about how we live out that faith through the different activities in our school. So, you know, using media is, is a big deal, but I think working together, like I know I have the opportunity to work with my son, but now we have a team of tons of students from each of those cohorts.


Brian Dunn (14:09):
So maybe not tons. So we have about, you know, 10:10 every morning that come in to run a report, they’re socially distanced. Everybody comes in, you know, do the things that they have to do, but sees the opportunity to put on a great show every morning. And so if, if there are leaders out there that want to know a little bit more about what it is to put on a show like that, I’d be happy to happy to, to help I’m learning as well. We, we fortunately have a great teacher here. Who’s running the I C T Chi. Who’s also involved with our Knight’s council. And he is helping sort of set up all this technical stuff as well. So again, you have that adult in your life that can help you through it, but the students you know, is providing opportunities for them to step out of their comfort zone, to to come up with something new.


Sam Demma (15:01):
That’s amazing. And because we’re listening audio and you’re listening audio, you obviously don’t see Brian, but he has a professional microphone set up in front of him and he was playing his guitar for, and I promise you, he taught me a couple things about tech and I’m 21 years old.


Brian Dunn (15:16):
There’s, I’m a little older than 21. We won’t mention. Yeah.


Sam Demma (15:22):
But maybe you can outline very, basically the pieces of software you used to run that live show because you live, stream it on YouTube and it’s, it’s a pretty cool production. Like, what are the pieces of software involved if someone else was curious? Yeah,


Brian Dunn (15:36):
Well, the technical initially when COVID hit I had to sort of go right from my downstairs and the darkness of my downstairs, because we were all at home, right. It so was like, how are we gonna reach, what the heck are we gonna do here? So I looked around around, and I use stream yard streamy yard as just a basic tool to it’s a free software for that they use. They obviously would want you to pay money if you want to go and keep using it for long periods of time, just like zoom and different things. But stream yard is actually a very good if you just have yourself and you need to get your message out there it’s fairly easy to set up and it is you can actually it has the sort of software loaded into the program already.


Brian Dunn (16:27):
So if you wanted to put your announcements, it will scroll across the bottom or cool. If you want to have your, a, a name tag at the bottom left, it’ll have those as well. So it’s, it’s good for if, you know if you need just a, if you don’t have a team, I’m fortunate. I have a, I have an I C T I have AHI students here and also an awesome nights council that everybody steps up to learn. But if you don’t have that, that would be your go-to. Now the show that we run in the morning, and I’ll have to guide you to to Mr. Kova, who is who’s running, the technical aspects of the show. Just like, you know, any other show, there’s a director, there’s the switcher, there’s the, we have about six screens that are going on and we can now go live on location.


Brian Dunn (17:10):
Like our remembrance day, we’re gonna go live on location and do like, you know maybe we’ll go to the Sanita in Milton and you know, it’s, it’s just, it’s, it’s really cool. It’s like, well, we’re outside, we’re following the rules and we’re doing everything that we can do. So yeah, if you wanted specifics to make up like a huge production then I I’ll, I’ll guide you just you can just email me and I can guide did a to co backs, but if you’re willing to be on camera and you’re willing to just do that, I would refer you to streamy yard just to to do basic streaming. And then the actual YouTube channel in itself is through your Gmail. If you have a Gmail account, just make one and then just go right through your YouTube, your own YouTube account.


Sam Demma (17:58):
That’s awesome. There’s a lot of educators listening as well, who, you know, are hesitant to do events this year. You know, it’s very confusing. You don’t, they don’t, we don’t know what’s going on. Here’s someone who’s put on an event. I was lucky enough and UN honored to speak at it. What would you say to other schools and other educators who think that, you know, we shouldn’t do any events this year, do you think it was a positive experience for your students? Should, should schools still strive to do some sort of events? What are your thoughts and opinions on that?


Brian Dunn (18:27):
Oh my goodness. Well, I think it starts, yeah, I, I think, oh my goodness. I can’t believe this. Oh my goodness. Yes, of course you should be putting on events. It’s, you know, we we’ve built and I know everyone else feels frustrated. I think in terms of you’ve built up all these events, especially schools that have been around forever traditions and, and you know, we’ve always focused on liturgical year for us chaplains and certain things that we’ve sort of built up. And there’s certain expectations to come to school and say, Nope, sorry, like we’re, you know, we, we, we can’t do anything, you know, everything shut down. That’s, that’s just wrong. It’s just, how do we adapt? Are we, how are we people that adapt? And as people of faith we, we have always been taught to adapt to the signs of the times.


Brian Dunn (19:19):
That’s our call. As Christians as Catholics. We, we look at the signs of the times and react. He’s like Jesus did when he was around. And the answers are not always with us. Actually, the answers are never really with us. They come through the holy spirit, working through our students, our staff, using the gifts and talents of our students and staff and our administration and, and coming together as a team to say, how are we going to face this together? As a school community if people are working in silos, it never works. But once we sort of extend it and say, okay, listen, we’re gonna do a show. It’s gonna concentrate on everything that the school is doing. It’s gonna focus on us coming together, but also there’s gonna be a virtual conference coming up and we’re going to, to have different speakers and Sam’s gonna be one of our speakers.


Brian Dunn (20:15):
And Mr. Dunn’s gonna be one of our speakers, and we’re gonna pull in a graduate student that’s sitting in you know, doing the same thing from home because they can’t go to to their university that they’re in. And we’re also gonna call in another Catholic leader in the community to see how they’re, you know, facing it. And we’ll, we’re just gonna have a, a short question answer, period. And you know, there, if, if you dare to dream, it, it can happen. It’s just getting those people in place that can help it move forward. So don’t stop, don’t stop believe don’t stop believing that it can happen. Right. I think people are too quick to say, ah, I can never, we are, are you really, are you serious? And, and that’s where we say Uhuh, like the holy spirit is bigger than anything that we can ever do. So that’s when we sit and whether whatever way we pray, whatever way we gotta figure out our vision and purpose, we say, God, if it is your will, it will happen. And please bring the people to me that we need. And if it’s not your will it, ain’t gonna, it’s not gonna happen. This isn’t gonna happen. That’s okay. And then you move to the next thing and, you know, we, listen, you see the spirit working and yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s amazing.


Sam Demma (21:31):
And what has been the student response to the events you guys have put on so far? Because I know like one big worries that the students aren’t gonna get as much out of it, have the students expressed interest that they like it. They want to keep doing stuff like that, or have they, have they said, you know, was good, but we don’t really wanna do again. well,


Brian Dunn (21:48):
The, from the mentorship the being mentors right now, it’s really important because they are connecting with the grade nines and any type of motivation that they can get. That’s targeting a specific group of people doing a specific purpose. Of course. I think for the mentors, you know, hearing your talk, hearing a little bit of leadership from the Knight’s council report having a mentorship minute where now that’s a part of the show right now our Knight’s council report where they they’re doing a mentorship minute, how can we help our grade nine? So they’re gonna do tips. They’re gonna do you know, just maybe some body mind and spirit things to help them, you know, just to know that we there’s someone that cares about you in our community. And, and that’s important as well. So yeah, I think they are wanting it.


Brian Dunn (22:44):
I’ve had many requests for the students to become hosts on the show. Everybody wants to be a . Everybody wants to be a stop yeah, no, but which is okay, which is good. I mean, it’s like, you wanna be, so we have so if you’re trying to organize, now, who’s gonna host the show and if you’re gonna have the joke of the day and you know, what do you bring? Like, you know, it’s like the church, what do you bring to the table? And you are called, we’re all called to the table table of the Lord. So it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s, it’s what gifts and talents do you bring as, as followers of Christ? So, yeah, it’s and even if you’re, and even in our school, it’s in particular, we’re very multicultural multi-faced school. So in whatever way that you follow that call from God that personal, all that you have, am I giving you that opportunity to do it? And I think within our school’s foundation to accept, to include and to serve, we, we do that. We, we provide an opportunity for every student to be a student of service with love, and that’s their talent. Yeah. If that’s their talent, then Hey, come on in. Yeah, come on in or sign up for one of our six different, you know, subgroups that we have that you have interest in. And they all have to do with serving either our community in school or outside community.


Sam Demma (24:02):
Amazing. No, I love that so much. That’s, that’s great. You know, it, it’s good to just spread awareness and let everyone know, you know, this stuff is still possible. You might have to just get really creative this year. You might fall on your face a few times, throw speed against the wall. And some of it not stick.


Brian Dunn (24:16):
But oh yeah. Oh, it it’s been, yeah. The, this morning it was chaotic, you know, things don’t work, you have to put up the, they have a technical difficult screen or whatever, you know, like it’s just like, we, we all wish we could throw that screen up when we’re making our three mistakes per day, I think isn’t it three mistakes per day. You’re supposed to make. I’m pretty sure something like that. I make way more than that. That’s for sure. Yeah. But no, it’s, it’s amazing to feel part of a team. Again, it’s a team aspect and people coming together for a common purpose that we’re missing in this, you know, it’s, you know, every day we sort of are hearing these down things about pandemic and how we’re not doing things and not doing things. It’s like, all right, stop. We’ll cut the things we’re not doing, but we will do all, all offense, I think all offense and no defense that, so that was what Mr. Mr. Kovas who’s running the Knights council report. He said, we’re doing all offense and no defense. So that’s pretty cool.


Sam Demma (25:14):
I love that. And if there’s other, you know, there are other educators listening who right now might be feeling a little bit burnt out. And I would say one, this has been a great interview. No one has actually sang live before. So they better be feeling better just because of your music . And in the case that they’re still a little burnt out. If you could, you know, take the wisdom you’ve accumulated over the past 18 or 17 years teaching in this, in this work, in this calling what pieces of advice, knowing what, you know now could you give to other educators who are, you know, willing right now? I just need some words of advice from her friend.


Brian Dunn (25:50):
I would say like exactly what my, my dad has always, and my family’s always taught me. Mm. Is truly to keep the faith and a sense of humor. And God will look after the rest and for all of the us his seven children and all, I have 27 nieces and nephews from all my brothers and sisters and stuff. Oh. We’ve always said that keeping the faith in a sense of humor, no matter what’s going on in the world is important. So to be able to laugh every day, find things that that make you laugh. And usually it comes from humility and being able to laugh at yourself. yeah, because honestly it is that it’s so freeing to be able to think you don’t have the answers. I don’t have the answers in my job as chaplain. I, I deal with a lot of sad things.


Brian Dunn (26:48):
A lot of the time in terms of bereavement or different things that we’re praying for in our community and counseling kids are not necessarily sort of pastoral counseling for kids that are going through stuff and working together. Sometimes in that we, you have to have a perspective of faith and a sense of humor and give those things over to God that we can’t handle. Hmm. We, this virus, we can’t handle it. You know, we, we, we have to just do what we’re told, but we can give our frustrations. We can give all of those things that are making us unhappy over to God. And that’s the, the victory of the cross is the fact that we don’t have to deal with it. God has conquered fear. God has conquered death. We are good. He’s already fought that fight. Our job is to let the holy spirit work through us now so that we can bring that hope to others.


Brian Dunn (27:40):
And unless we have the hope, we are not giving it to others. So we pray every day for that hope. I pray every day that the spirit can work through me and work through everyone that I touch. Every day in terms of Knight’s council report, what’s going out our, our, our, our Knight’s council and itself. And just coming up with ideas that will hopefully resonate with our students here at StFX and the staff as well in supporting them. So, yeah. Oh, look, someone’s calling right now. I love that. that’s OK. That’s awesome. Maybe it’s God calling maybe it’s God calling you.


Sam Demma (28:21):
If, if an educator listening wants to reach out, just have a conversation with you, bounce ideas around, share some hopeful energy, what would be the best way for them to do so?


Brian Dunn (28:31):
I would love to hear from anyone. Yeah. . I’d love to hear from anyone, especially the person that’s calling me on the phone right now. they really want to talk to me. It’s like the 12th ring. Yeah, if you could just, you could email me I work for the Halton catholic district school board, and I think it’s dunnb@hcdsb.org. It’s probably the best way. That’s my work email and it’s St. Francis Xavier school in Milton. So we also on our website just check that out. And you can also check out the Knight’s council report, which is on there as well. If you are looking for some ideas and I’d be happy to help anybody that was thinking of just doing something a little different and we can also brainstorm, I’m sure you could teach me a few things as well.


Sam Demma (29:16):
Cool. And I’m gonna put you on the spot here. Do you wanna close this off of the song? Yes, I do. All right, let’s go for it


Brian Dunn (29:25):
Now, this song I’m just gonna end with I picked ordinary day at the beginning, but I don’t know how much time we have or whatever, but this song is it’s brought me through a really cool journey. A journey of faith. I talked a little bit about, you know, what called me to serve others but also throughout my life when I was a lot younger, I was, I was sick with Crohn’s disease and went through many surgeries, many surgeries that sort of built up sort of my physical and spiritual life after that. So this was a song that we sang all the way through it that sort of helped keep perspective. So it goes like this, Laughing, all that easy. I can testify too. There it’s been up and down and round and round to get to where I’m at. You could see how I live in this old car ride drive. Well, you probably wonder and even wonder why even wanna stay alive, but gimme one more shot. I’ll give it all. I got, let me open my eyes to a new sunrise upbringing. Give me one more chance. I’ll learn the day dance hum is five to be alive. Gimme one more day.


Brian Dunn (31:08):
There’s a little verse of it. That’s by Alabama. And the whole song goes on to continue to say, Hey, we all get one more shot every day we wake up. And when we have the grace of God with us, we act with, for faith and love and sense of humor. Keep the faith in a sense of humor. What else can we do? That’s it. We gotta keep moving and hopefully, hopefully been a little bit of inspiration to your listeners and feel free to, yeah. Feel free to contact me at any time.


Sam Demma (31:38):
Brian, thanks so much for coming on the show, playing some music, sharing some stories. It’s been a great conversation. I really appreciate it. Okay. This is crazy. We’re coming back on for one quick second, because we figured out why Brian’s phone was ringing 12 times during the episode. And I wanted him to share real quick.


Brian Dunn (31:54):
Okay. So here, like here’s me thinking I’m really super important. Eh, it’s ah, you know, it’s like the backbones go on. I’m gonna have to go do something. And then I’m like, okay, we’ll just let it go. And then our amazing custodial staff come over because last week I had mentioned, I don’t even know what did I say? I think it was something like, oh, it’d be great if you know I don’t know, I got a coffee, whatever. I, I was hard being sarcastic. Of course they were listening to me and after, and they, they call me down and they had this, beautiful Starbucks coffee that’s right in front of me. That was just a, just a, just a little thing that totally just made my day after babbling on for, for Sam’s podcast. But you know what amazing. It’s just amazing. When people just are stepping out of their comfort zone, just helping, helping their, their, their chaplain here. But we have such a great community and I’m just so so blessed and you know what? The coffee doesn’t hurt either. Man, this is amazing. Amazing. Thank you guys. I love you. Love you guys.


Sam Demma (33:00):
Cool. And there you have it. The full interview with my good friend, Brian Dunn, if you didn’t take anything away from this episode, I hope you at least enjoyed the music during the intro and the outro. He’s a very talented person. If you wanna reach out, please do. He’d love to hear from you. And as always, if you’re learning something from the these episodes and you’re loving the content, please consider leaving a rating and review so that more high performing educators, just like you find this show and can benefit from it. And if you yourself have inspiring ideas or insightful stories that you’d like to share, shoot us an email at info@samdemma.com and we’ll get you on the show anyways. I’ll see you on the next episode talk soon. Okay.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Melissa Wright

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 18, 2021 by Student Leadership Student Success 0

Tracey Klinkhammer – Management Co-op at The University of Toronto Scarborough Campus

Tracey Klinkhammer - Management Co-op at The University of Toronto Scarborough Campus
About Tracey Klinkhammer

Inspiring students to succeed is what Tracey Klinkhammer aspires to in her role at the University of Toronto Scarborough’s Management Co-op Department. With a focus on helping students turn their abilities into exciting possibilities, Tracey leverages her diverse experience in sales, human resources and education to really partner with the students in the program to support their goals.

Starting with an engineering degree and completing an MBA with a co-op she knows firsthand the impact of integrated learning. She recognizes through her own journey how there are many pathways to get to where you want to go. Tracey believes in making a difference one student at a time.

Connect with Tracey: Email | Website | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

The Dream Machine Tour

Alex Banayan: The Third Door (book)

Charlie Rocket

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Tracey Klinkhammer. Inspiring students to succeed is what Tracey aspires to do in her role at the University of Toronto Scarborough’s management co-op department with a focus on helping students turn their abilities into exciting possibilities. Tracey leverages her diverse experience in sales, human resources and education to really partner with the students in the programs to support their goals. Starting with an engineering degree and completing an MBA with a co-op, she knows firsthand the impact of integrated learning. She recognizes through her own journey, how there are many pathways to get to where you want to go. And Tracey believes in making a difference one student at a time.


Sam Demma (01:25):
This is a very refreshing and awesome human to human conversation, and I hope you enjoy it and take something valuable away from it. I will see you on the other side. Tracey, thank you so much for coming on the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit behind the reason why you got into education?


Tracey Klinkhammer (01:49):
Well, thank you first for having me, Sam, I’m super excited to be here. This is very fun for me. So it’s a long story. I’ll try to keep it short, but it starts with my own passion for learning. I think I was one of those kids in school couldn’t get enough. And I had really great teachers that fed that passion. And so I was always getting pulled into, you know, extra projects and so going into high school, I think I realized how much I benefited from people investing in me. And then I started getting into peer tutoring, which led me to realize I loved teaching. I loved helping. I loved seeing my friends progress past their math tests and I was really interested in being a math teacher. But at that time when I was applying to universities, my father sort of gave me the choice of taking a math degree at my local university, which is a great university or fleeing the nest.


Tracey Klinkhammer (02:40):
And I could go anywhere in Canada if I took engineering. And so that was a very it was an easy decision for me. And so he said it wouldn’t close any doors and it was, it’s a great degree. Engineering’s a great degree. Mm. But I didn’t wanna be an engineer, taught me a lot about problem solving and so on. And every year my dad would say, do you, how’s it going? No, I don’t wanna be an engineer. So the only door it did close though, was teachers college. Funny enough so I had to figure out, okay, so I can’t get into teachers college. What can I do? So I did what we did back then before phones and surfing, I turned to the smartest girl in my class and I said, what’s your plan? And she talked about doing her MBA and talked all about this thing called co-op, which I didn’t know about co-op at that time.


Tracey Klinkhammer (03:25):
And so, you know, walked over to the payphone. That’s dating myself and says people probably like payphone, who is those? And then I booked an interview and, and did my GMAT and got into the MBA program. Mm. So I, I didn’t quite get into formal education until five years ago when I did join U oft. Nice. But what I realized as I became an HR professional and I took some time off and did some training on the side, I realized I was always about people enablement. And so even, you know, if you, about what education is, it’s really about giving students the tools they need to be successful. And I took that mindset with my HR jobs. And then finally this opportunity because I ran recruitment programs across the country and I was in talent acquisition. And I, I realized the value of co-op. So then I brought people in and I started partnering with the ship Toronto Scarborough and realized it is an amazing program, amazing students, amazing people. And so for three years, I basically saw the value of co-op as we brought on students and then eventually transitioned to being part of their team. So that was a long story, but I’m currently at the university of Toronto and, and I work in the business program supporting students who are in co-op.


Sam Demma (04:45):
What, what prompted you to make the jump from HR job to UFT? Like, was there a defining moment in your story that you thought it’s time for me to move on from this? Or why did you decide to switch?


Tracey Klinkhammer (04:57):
I think I just got to a point in my career and I think this is a really important thing they always talk about with students. I think sometimes there’s a pressure to feel this, you know, what success looks like and to sort of follow a certain pathway and the pathway tends to be vertical. And so a lot of students, you know, when they look at definitions of success and they look at creating pathways for themselves and modeling, you know, other people, what they tend to see as vertical progression. And I think I just got to a point in my career where I, I really stopped and thought, you know, what’s really important to me. Why am I in this job? What do I wanna get out of working? And and the answer was really about making a difference. And so not that I, in my other job, I, I loved my job.


Tracey Klinkhammer (05:40):
I, I wanna say, you know, I loved working for the cup that I worked at. I just thought that I had a chance to really affect change one student at a time by, by getting into a university setting. So, and it really did feel full circle. It really did feel finely, you know, after all these years getting into a formal education setting, which I had talked about wanting to do when I was in high school. Mm-Hmm . And so it, what I didn’t also tell you is I did sales in between there too. So, you know, sales…


Sam Demma (06:09):
What did you sell?


Tracey Klinkhammer (06:10):
I, I sold, but don’t tell anybody I called my grandma. I like, oh my grandma. I said, grandma, I got my first job. And so, yes, I’m still in drugs. I worked for AstraZeneca, so, oh, wow. I did. And so I brought on because I couldn’t get an HR job because I didn’t have the experience. And so someone said, well, get a sales job, understand the products, understand the people. And then you’ll be able to support them in that HR function. But at the time that I got into and sales taught me a lot about, it’s funny, all my jobs gave me bits and pieces. That helped me be a good advisor, cuz that’s basically what my role is. It’s kind of advising. So sales taught me about listening and the importance of really understanding need and really, you know, under taking the time to gather requirements and really understand, you know, pain points and how you can really help someone through that. So I actually think sales experience hands down for anybody is a great fundamental experience. I think everybody should do sales at one point in their life.


Sam Demma (07:10):
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I have, I have a coach.


Tracey Klinkhammer (07:13):
Right?


Sam Demma (07:15):
so I have a coach and a mentor who spent half of his life selling surgical equipment and he is now a speaker and he’s been speaking for 25 years and he teaches me everything. He knows about sales and like that’s one of the most important things, but he helps shift my mindset from, you know, thinking about sales as selling to serving, like you’re mentioning about understanding people really on a deep level and what they actually need. And if you are, are the person to help them. And it’s, it’s so true. It’s, it’s so true. It’s funny that you mentioned that now it’s come full circle as you got into a classroom, because you mentioned that you were a student who always wanted more mm-hmm and it seems like your daughter is too, because you’re in her bedroom and behind you on the wall is a chalkboard . Yeah. Which is like that’s so cool. Like having a chalkboard in your bedroom. That’s amazing. What do you think led to you being that student that always wanted more? Did you have people in your life who stressed the importance of education? Was there teachers who played a fundamental role in your life?


Tracey Klinkhammer (08:12):
I think it was to be really honest. I think it was my parents. Yeah. particularly my mom, she didn’t have our access to higher ed. Okay. And I think, you know, growing up with her circumstance, I think she realized she, my parents are phenomenal have given me like their, you know, amazing role models. But I think for my parents, it was like when you go to university, not if it was always higher, ed was always part of our conversation. Now, funny enough, they never actually pressured me. It all came from me. I, I really drove myself. My parents were not those hovering parents. They never helped me with my, like, this is not a bad thing. This is a good thing. They didn’t help me with my homework. They didn’t check up on me. I was really motivated to, you know, manage my work, ask for more.


Tracey Klinkhammer (08:58):
They, they looked for opportunities and supported those opportunities when they came up and when, you know, teachers approached them and they were so supportive, but it really did come from me. And I, I think it was those teachers that took the time. Cuz now that I’m on the other side of it, I realized that the E easier thing for them to do, would’ve just been to do the basics mm-hmm . And I think about, you know, my grade six teacher going up, she knew I love language and she would create these special, extra you know, study guides for, you know, crazy words and how to use them. And I love that stuff. And I look back now and I think, oh my gosh, she did that all in our own time. And that’s, that was really early on. And even in grade one and two, I was taken out with seven other students and we stayed with the grade one class in grade two and we worked on special projects.


Tracey Klinkhammer (09:46):
And again, they were really that would’ve been like the easier thing to do. Would’ve just been to let us all kind of go with our cohort, but they kept us separate. And so early on I realized, you know, if you sort of demonstrate and, and show that passion, that you really can find people in your life that wanna feed that. And so definitely teachers have a, a big role to, to play in that. So, and in high school too, same, I could go there’s a lot, you know, that that’s that I realized. And I don’t, that’s what I don’t think people like, I always tell my kids cuz they’re in high school and one of them’s in grade eight and I always go back to those teachers that made a difference cuz I know the difference they’ve made cuz my, my kids are talking about them and I thought you have no idea how transformative your experience in the classroom was for my kid. And so I’ve really tried to instill in my children and for anybody that’s listening, you know, it’s a great thing to do. Gratitude is huge. It’s a really, it’s an easy gift to give it’s free and it’s a, a great way to give back. Now I feel like I have to go back and call my grade six teacher I feel like I have to go back and tell my grade one grade, two teachers. You know, thank you. Thank you.


Sam Demma (10:53):
Well, I appreciate you sharing that because you know the educators that are listening to us right now, it’s also a reminder to them to note that sometimes students don’t tell you these things. No that you’re, you know, you could be making a huge difference, but not hear about it for 30 years. And no it’s important to, to understand that that doesn’t mean you’re not making an impact. The impact is still there. It just might take a while for you to see the F roots of it. Or you may never see it, but know it exists. And I just think that’s important to stress as well, because you know, you know, maybe the student didn’t have someone like yourself telling them, you know, be grateful and tell your teachers, you appreciate them, but the students really do. And I I’m sure you even see that in your role at U F T you know, like I’m, I’m sure when you give advice to students you, you help help them find the answers to questions that they have not by telling them what to do, but by helping them explore themselves, I’m sure they’re super grateful.


Sam Demma (11:47):
Do you have any stories of, of students at UTSC that, that you know, you keep, you keep in the forefront of your mind maybe when you’re feeling a little down or you know, a little beaten up?


Tracey Klinkhammer (11:57):
Well, this has been a rough year. I will tell you this year has made, you know, has been made better. I work. This is one of the best programs in the country. Yeah. I am so proud to work at U oft and I love the students that I work with and they’re their teachers. I’m always learning from them. And for me, I don’t do it for the gratitude truthfully, like that’s, that’s a bonus. And what, what really moves me is when I actually see them achieve their goal mm-hmm and help them figure out what that is like, what you were talking about. It’s really unlocking their pathways. I think every young person when they’re sort of embarking, and this is the time of year now where students are ex accepting their college and university applications and thinking about what’s next for them. And I always think it’s really important to understand how fluid those, those goals can be.


Tracey Klinkhammer (12:45):
And, you know, helping a student understand through reflection and through their own growth and learning, you know, to really tie into what’s important to them and understand, and it can change along the way. So the best part of my job is being with the students. That’s what I love about working with the business program, cuz I’m with them from the beginning to when they graduate. And that change is so amazing. Cuz some students come, they have a plan, they execute on the plan. That’s great. They graduate. And that all went to plan. There are some people who had a plan and the plan is not what they I’m sure I can see you. Right? Yeah. I think more students feel like you do Sam, but that’s not how I thought my plan was gonna go. Yeah. And so that’s a really cool thing to be a part of too, because then I, you know, then I’m more, that’s back to the consulting thing and the advising, which is about listening and themselves reflect and figure it out.


Tracey Klinkhammer (13:36):
And cuz I think they ultimately know where they wanna go. It’s having the confidence and the, the belief in themselves to do it, especially when they’ve experienced some failure because news, flash, you know, everybody at some point we have a lot of great students and I always tell them it’s for, for a lot of students, they real, haven’t experienced a lot of failure in their life and that first experience can be really painful. And and there’s a number of ways students react to it. I think they, this is gonna sound weird, but I think it’s such a great thing. I think it’s such a great teacher. And resiliency is one of the most important things. I think a young person can learn and help successful through their, their time.


Sam Demma (14:18):
So a student comes to the office, crying that they failed something like how do you, how do you deal with that? Like what kind of, I guess what kind of, what kind of questions would you ask to help them find their own answers?


Tracey Klinkhammer (14:30):
Well, I, I think first it’s starting with kind of empathy and compassion, right? Yeah. Like acknowledging the feelings. And I think that’s the thing, I’m a super positive person, but I think the students have come to realize that I’m good with all the emotions. You know, your, your university college life is gonna take you through a wide range of experiences. Some of them are gonna be really positive. Sadly, I’ve been with students that have experienced tremendous loss. And that, that, that comes in all sorts of different experiences and that’s hard. Cuz you’re seeing student experience that. And I think for me it’s more about understanding where they are in that moment and what they need in that moment. And then, you know, I work at a school world, it’s got lots of great resources to help support students depending on, you know, what’s happening. But I think the big one is just kind of being with them and saying, I’m sorry, and I hear you and not trying to problem solve.


Sam Demma (15:24):
Sometimes people just go straight to the questions.


Tracey Klinkhammer (15:26):
Yeah. I don’t sort of whip out my checklist and you know because everybody’s different. And also when I have a relationship with the student, when I’ve known them for a few years, you can really tell if someone’s, you know, kind of the majority of your interactions have been a certain way. And then you see this change, you realize this is an important moment and I try to make space and time. And I think the biggest thing and the most challenging thing is being really present because obviously I have a family we’re in the middle of a pandemic. I think I, I think to really be effective in education, I think you have to really focus on how are you really present with that student in that moment? So they know that you ha you’re, they’re heard and that they’re supported. Does that make sense?


Sam Demma (16:08):
Yeah, of course. It’s, you know, it’s letting them speak what they have to speak and, and understanding what their situation is and almost being like a best friend, like, right. Like that’s what it kind of sounds like at the end of the day.


Tracey Klinkhammer (16:22):
No, I like to draw some boundaries, you know, of course yeah. Like I’m a nine to five here to there. Yeah. And you know, they’ve got lots of friends. I think what I am though is I think I am someone, you know, given my experience, given my role, I am someone where they know that they they’re not alone, that they can that. So there is a place to sort of help cuz you know, whether it’s related to job seeking or academic performance or maybe there’s something personally in their life, knowing who to reach out to things are gonna happen in your life. And I think what I want the ’em to know is I can’t solve your problems, but I can definitely be here to support you and connect you with the people that can like I’m not a counselor. Yeah. I’m not a, you know, like I, we, we have these great people that help support and I’m as much as I’m obviously friendly with them, we have lots of laughs and we’re fun, but there is there is that I think it’s about trust. I think what you’re getting to, when you talk about is, you know, they get to a point, I think they, they really know that I care and when someone cares, you’re more apt to share and build trust with that. So that’s what I try to do. I try to show I lead with caring. That’s kind of hopefully that’s how they perceive it, but yeah.


Sam Demma (17:32):
Cool. Yeah. I love that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I was getting at the idea that like, they feel like you’re a friend, not that they’re talking to you like 24 or seven or anything, but you know, like they’re


Tracey Klinkhammer (17:42):
Not hitting me up on you know, not, not texting each other, like, you know yeah. Boundaries, Sam boundaries…


Sam Demma (17:49):
Right. yeah, it makes, it makes total sense. And you know, what types of challenges are you faced with this year? I know it’s different, it’s very different. So like what does it look like? How have things changed?


Tracey Klinkhammer (18:01):
Well, let me ask you that. How are you, what kind of challenges are you?


Sam Demma (18:04):
Well I mean, I almost quit speaking back in may. And that’s when I met this guy who became my coach named Chris. Like I, it’s funny, it followed the whole classical heroes journey. I went on an adventure and COVID hit and then I found a mentor and his name was Chris. And then I had trials and tribulations and I almost quit and here we are now, but at, it was, it was terrible. I didn’t know what I was doing. I didn’t know if I could keep doing this. Then he started shifting my belief system to understand that this could also be the greatest opportunity because people need this sort of inspiration and motivation and just positivity now more than ever.


Tracey Klinkhammer (18:46):
Chris. I like it. I like Chris. He has a good attitude about he’s cool. So it’s the same thing. I think we’ve all had to pivot. I, you know, what I hear from you Sam is that you were thrown a huge curve ball, which basically the pandemic has for everyone, like for our students, for our staff, you know, I work with a really great team and we’re used to working with each other and seeing each other on campus. I miss them. I feel, you know, it’s isolating working in my basement is not my favourite. Sam, it’s cold down there. I had to buy warm socks and like I got a heated blanket for my birthday or for. But you know, and I miss that I think what I miss the most and what I find the most challenging is how organic everything was, all those connections with students and, you know, being on campus think students sort of, you know, available to pop in and, you know, I work in the business building, so you’d see them when you’re walking around the building, there was so much information that was exchanged that I was a lot better able to sort of keep up with what was going on here, information.


Tracey Klinkhammer (19:47):
And I think the, the, the biggest challenge has been how intentionally need to be when you’re online. And I miss the casualness of just being in a workplace where, you know, you enjoy the company of your colleagues, you enjoy the, the students that you work with. And so I think that’s been the biggest challenge. And I think all the students are feeling a little bit of isolation, right? Like it’s, so some students are living their best life. They like this online thing. I would say the majority are anxious to come back to, to to school and for our co-op students for a lot of them, you know, they’ve done work terms where they were in the workplace and now they’re transitioning to having to learn how to navigate the world of work online. And so that comes with its own set of challenges and, you know, supporting our students through that.


Tracey Klinkhammer (20:31):
So what I love about my team though, is I work with someone who inspires me. He’s you know, one of my, one of my, my manager, Phil, I’ll give him a shout out. He’s always thinking about new ways of doing things. And and I think that’s where you have to go to just like how you talked about, you know, where, what can you do? How can you respond to this in a different way? I think we’ve asked ourselves that as a department and we, you know, we ask that of the students too, when they’re looking at managing through that. So yeah, it’s been a tough year for everybody.


Sam Demma (21:02):
Yeah. That’s great. And I, I agree. It’s a, it’s a weird different year. And I think, you know, I find too, if we focus on the negative too long, we’re always gonna find the negative. And if we try and focus on the positive, no matter how small we can, can grab a hold of it and figure out some other things that can happen because of it. There’s a quote. I love that, you know, without dirt, you can’t plant a seed or, you know, this guy, Charlie rocket always says Santa delivered presence, not in the light, but in dark . And I was like, ah, you know, this little analogy just to remind us that when there isn’t a, a tough situation or something to overcome that there’s also some form of an opportunity hidden in there somewhere. The problem is often sometimes a part of the solution in some way, shape or form.


Tracey Klinkhammer (21:41):
Yeah. And I think that’s what I always tell students too, like lessons that you learn sometimes aren’t wrapped, you know, on your analogy of the gay ifs. They’re not always wrapped in pretty paper. Yeah. sometimes those lessons and you don’t realize that they are actually a gift. So you get these lessons at the time when you’re in it, it might feel really overwhelming and it’s hard to reflect in the moment, but I’ve seen a lot of students that when they look back on those experiences, they realize how important, how impactful they were to where they ended up getting to. But in that moment, it can, it doesn’t feel, it doesn’t always feel like a gift when you’re learning that lesson. That’s not wrapped in the prettiest of papers. You know what I mean? Yeah.


Sam Demma (22:18):
I’m with you. And you mentioned Phil, Phil’s been an inspiration back to Phil for one second. Like what is it that Phil’s done that’s inspired you or you know, motivated you. And I asked the question just because I feel like in our, all of our lives, there are teachers and motivators. Like I can mention people that inspire me. I already mentioned Chris, my coach mm-hmm what is it about Phil that kind of inspires you? I think


Tracey Klinkhammer (22:40):
Phil is just, he’s fantastic. I mean, he’s worked at the university for maybe, I don’t know if he’s gonna get mad, but 15 years, maybe I’m adding up. And I’ve, I’ve worked at UT for five years. What I, what I really appreciate about Phil is he inspires me because he’s always looking to be better for himself and for our students, like he puts our students first. He’s always, I don’t know how he manages to read so much. He listens to a million podcasts. I think he reminds me of the people that I had in my life early on that were always feeding my need to learn and to grow. And so he’s always, you know, flipping me and our team, you know, articles he’s come across and he’s really helped me see the value of that investment in yourself. Cuz sometimes you get really busy as an educator and you realize, so, oh, I have to keep learning.


Tracey Klinkhammer (23:31):
Like I, here I am teaching. And I’m, you know, a lot of my work you know, we, we help our first year students, we teach a course in terms of getting them ready for jobs, but we do a lot of one-on-one counseling. And I think sometimes you get into the, you know, the, the, you know, the kind of the day in day out of your job and you forget that you’ve gotta take that time to invest in yourself. And he’s always reminding me that that’s important. And working with someone in an educational setting that puts students first that, you know, values innovation and new ideas. It’s great. Like, I, I, I, I hope that everybody gets to work with someone like that. So yeah.


Sam Demma (24:08):
And if you could, you know, go back in time not that it’s too far, we’re not gonna date you but if you could…


Tracey Klinkhammer (24:16):
I did talk about my payphone, Sam.


Sam Demma (24:17):
I did talk. That’s why I’m, I’m like, I’m trying to save you here, but it’s too late. if we did go back in time, you know, to Fred Flintstones. Yeah. Yeah. If, if we went back in time to the first year that you, you did this sort of work in education, like knowing what you know now, what advice would you give younger Tracey?


Tracey Klinkhammer (24:36):
Oh my gosh. I would give my younger Tracey, like this year has been tough because I think in this role of caring, you know, you real again, and being present, I didn’t realize the impact of COVID on like of the pandemic on me personally and, and just, you know, working on my own and not having the team to re-energize me. I, I would’ve told myself earlier, make sure you, you take care of yourself a little more, more intentionally. I think it was that, that was it. Aside from that, I, I think, you know, and I probably would’ve put more time earlier and, and I still do it, but just, I forgot how much I love reading and, you know, kind of keeping recharged and connected. So I think those two things is just more about self care and and filling the, filling my bucket so I can fill others. So, yeah.


Sam Demma (25:32):
Oh, cool. I agree. Those are great. Those are great pieces.


Tracey Klinkhammer (25:35):
Would you go back and say, if you could tell yourself before you got on your journey, I’m always curious, what would you do?


Sam Demma (25:39):
Well, unfortunately, there wasn’t any payphone , but I would tell myself two and invest in Tesla for sure. totally joking. If I could go back in time to when I was 17 and going through some tough experiences, I would remind myself that my self worth as a human being, isn’t attached to things that I do that I’m innately, you know, worth just as much as every other human being, just by the fact that I’m here and I’m born mm-hmm I would tell myself that I’m a competitor and I operate best when I challenge myself and it doesn’t have to be in a linear fashion, meaning always soccer as it used to be when I was younger, it could be in any way, shape or form, whether it’s a challenge to run a marathon or to push myself mentally in a specific way or to take a new yoga practice on or something. I would tell myself to, to ask myself how I can use my gifts and talents to serve others and to help others. Cause I feel at my best as well when I’m serving or in some form of service mm-hmm I’ll tell myself to not hate reading throughout high school.


Tracey Klinkhammer (26:45):
Maybe it’s important. I tell my kids to read every day. Reading is so important. They listen to like, you know, they, they underestimate the power of reading, like the, it is important. Okay. What else? Sorry. I’m I’m on your train. I got really onto that one.


Sam Demma (26:57):
Well, I’m sorry. I’m like spitting out 15 different things here. I know you’re making me feel like I gotta go by.


Tracey Klinkhammer (27:01):
I can revisit. What would I tell myself five years ago?


Sam Demma (27:05):
well, you got me on, you got me on the spot too. And I’m like, I dunno.


Tracey Klinkhammer (27:10):
Know what, but what I like though, what I heard about you is it’s all that self-reflection piece. Right? And I think that, and that’s the part where I really, you know, want our students to get to is just about figuring out where your gifts are, where your’re are and really looking inward. I think a lot of students want, and I think, you know, you may have felt that same pressure to look about, you know, look to your left, look to your right and see what other people are doing. It takes a lot of courage to sort of look inward and dis you know, kind of discover for yourself. You know, you talked about you as a competitor and creating a space for yourself where you can leverage that at strength, the yours, and a lot of students spend a lot of time on what they’re not good at, instead of just saying, Hey, what am I good at? And let’s, you know, let’s grow with that. Let’s, you know, nobody’s gonna be great at everything, but figuring out how to really leverage your own strengths and keep moving. So, yeah.


Sam Demma (27:59):
And there’s times where I’ll put myself in a situation where I know I’m not good at something to try and, you know, build this skill mm-hmm , but in certain, you know, certain moments when I’m down or when things aren’t going well, I wanna put myself in a position where I feel at my best, so I can get back to my best mm-hmm . And for me, that’s running or pushing myself physically, but that’s just for me. And I think for everyone, it’s totally different. Like you said, mm-hmm you mentioned reading and I know you love reading. So would you mind sharing a couple of sources or things you’ve read that you think are valuable?


Tracey Klinkhammer (28:28):
Well, thanks for asking Sam. I think I tell I really should get a commission for this cuz the number of people I have reading this book and I know you’ve read the book, you know what I’m gonna say? I do know the third door, not the, and I do not work for Alex, but everybody should read the, I think it, it, it goes for students, it goes for educators. It goes for really anybody in life. It’s a story of resiliency and and it, and it’s applicable in a business context in your own personal life. Would you say, would you say that’s a solid book recommendation?

Sam Demma (29:02):
A hundred percent. In fact, I just, I just have another third door experience. Maybe I can share real quick.


Tracey Klinkhammer (29:08):
I love thethird door. I always, cuz that was basically my life for people that are listening. The third door analogy is essentially a story about what happens when you encounter obstacles. And it’s this young guy who’s in med school who wants to figure out what makes famous people successful. And he, you know, kind of sells a won’t well, you gotta read the book to know, but basically the analogy comes up with is if you can’t, you know, successful people, if they can’t get in the main door of a club or the VIP entrance, they find a third way in. And so I think, you know, when I think about my own life, okay. Wanted to be a teacher, you know, one of the obstacles was obviously my parents were foot in the bill. Okay. I’ll go to engineering, couldn’t get into teachers college. Okay. Do an MBA, got into people enablement, which was ultimately what teaching was and then found a way back to education. So I think eventually I feel like I am where I belong. It’s taken me to get here. I absolutely love my job. I love the people I work with. I love the students. So the third door is a, is a good teacher. And I love that. Now tell me about your third door experience. Tell me about it.


Sam Demma (30:12):
So I’ve been reaching out to people in very unique ways over the past couple of years because of that book and because of things that I’ve been exposed to by mentors as, and colleagues more recently though, there’s this gentleman named Charlie rocket, who’s in the us right now, driving around on, on an RV called the dream machine and he’s making people’s dreams come true. And he’s building like amazing communities all throughout the states and he’s just, he speaks in schools and he does this, these, these dream machine drops like Hasbro gave them five, $500,000 and they give a whole city filled with children, free toys on Christmas that couldn’t afford it. Like there’s, it’s so cool. The work they’re doing and his story’s crazy. Like he managed, he managed a huge rapper named two chains and after seven years became 300 pounds and had a brain tumor and he was gonna die.


Sam Demma (30:58):
And he left his work in the music industry to become an iron man. And in a year he lost 160 pounds and completed this race, which is crazy to think about in the same year that he almost died and had a brain tumor reversed the brain tumor and now is doing all this work. And so I, I think it to myself, wow. What I, what I think I have to offer could really compliment what they’re doing in the states. And so I’ve reached out like 12 times and just not getting it anywhere. I haven’t got in touch with him. He hasn’t got back to me and I finally said, I’m gonna do this. Like, I’m gonna figure this out no matter what it takes. There’s another door here that I’m gonna enter. And I ended up networking with all the people in his, in his Instagram following. And I, I came across a guy named Timmy who happens to be his cameraman and we built like an amazing relationship. And I spent the last three weeks listening to all 62 episode episodes of, of Charlie rocket’s podcast. And I…


Tracey Klinkhammer (31:46):
I love it.


Sam Demma (31:49):
Wait, wait. It gets worse. It gets better. I made a note, a page of notes on every episode. So I have a 62 page booklet with a cover letter that says my onboarding is done. When do we get started question mark PS, don’t skip the last page. And if you flip to the six, the third page, it says www dot message. Dreamer.Com, which is their company and a redirects to a landing page with a video where I pitched this idea of coming on board. And then I spent $180 to get a custom made box with his logo all over it. And his cameraman gave me the mailing address and I just dropped it in the FedEx international express one day shipping today. So stay tuned, decide this here’s an example of the third door.


Tracey Klinkhammer (32:29):
I love it. So, but here, like countless, like 12 times you’ve been rejected, you know, your lack of kind of response. Yeah. It doesn’t, you know what you’re thinking is how can I find a different way in, right? How can I connect with this guy? You are making me, as you describe what he is doing. I feel like I really have to UPP my game.


Sam Demma (32:45):
Geez. Yeah, this guy’s crazy. My gosh, it’s super inspiring.


Tracey Klinkhammer (32:49):
Like how do people do that? I don’t know, like anyways, good for him. And that’s great. I hope you get him on I’m rooting for you. I’m rooting for you.


Sam Demma (32:57):
I’ll let you know.


Tracey Klinkhammer (32:57):
I love it. My onboarding’s been done. When do we get started? Love it.


Sam Demma (33:01):
Little confident, a little confident, right? I like it. I like it. Yeah. Anyways, Tracey, this has been a great conversation. We went down so many different alleys. I don’t wanna say rabbit holes. Cause I feel like that’s a negative thing. I think our were, we, we went down so many, you know, pathways on onboardings on, on, on bridges that were leading us to beautiful highways. So thank you so much for taking the time to, to chat today. If an educator listening wants to reach out to you, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?


Tracey Klinkhammer (33:28):
Think LinkedIn, I don’t know how many Tracey Klinkhammers are on there, but I’m always happy to connect on Linkedin. I don’t have a big social media presence. I think we talked about this. I’m really in this job to really affect change, one student, at a time. And I think that’s kind of always been my way and I, I think I take in that sales experience and my HR experience, cuz I was in consulting roles and I was in education, like training and development. And so that was all about creating, you know, training experiences for people in a workplace that supported their learning. And I think I take all of that with me in my, you know, my experiences with students. And I really want them to know that, you know, our, our team, not just me obviously, but our team’s there and it, and it starts with just one student at a time.


Tracey Klinkhammer (34:13):
And I always, I say to my husband, I have the best job I could be literally sitting across from a student that it’s going be a trailblazer and I’m gonna be able to say, I knew that person mm-hmm when they were a student and maybe just maybe, and maybe they tell me and maybe I’ll never know. Maybe they feel like I had some small part in helping light that fire or help them find that piece of themselves or self reflect or, you know, get them on, you know, support them with the tools they need to get on the path that they want. So that’s why I do it. I do my job because I love my job and I, you know, I want our students to succeed in the way that works for them. So I don’t have a cookie cutter approach. There’s no one pathway that’s right. For any one, you know, that works across all students. It really comes down to each individual. So that’s it. So if anybody wants to learn more about that, they can. But it’s pretty simple. I’m not Charles, you know, Charlie guy, rocket. Yeah. I know Charlie rocket, my goodness. I’m gonna go home and go think about how I can up my game.


Sam Demma (35:14):
He’s not a teacher, so don’t worry, you know, he’s a, but he’s a, like he, he’s just an awesome guy. Like I I’ve wanted to, like, I want to go to the states and do a tour with him and like speak in the schools with him. Like that’s what I’m hoping comes out of it. But yeah, just it’s inspiring.


Tracey Klinkhammer (35:31):
You’re listening. I’m I’m like back in Sam big time. So I’m really excited to keep me posted.


Sam Demma (35:36):
I will. I will. Thank you so much this conversation. I appreciate it. Thanks Sam, take care. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tracey

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 16, 2021 by Cooperative Education Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success 0

Tina Edwards – President of the Saskatchewan Association of Student Council Advisors

Tina Edwards - President of the Saskatchewan Association of Student Council Advisors
About Tina Edwards

Tina Edwards has been an educator in Saskatchewan for the past 27 years, but still considers herself a rookie in the education game. Student leadership has been a passion of hers since she entered the teaching profession in 1994.

Two highlights of her career are hosting the Saskatchewan Student Leadership Conference in 2012 and again in 2019. Projects like these prove that students can accomplish anything if they are willing to work hard and work together as a team.

Tina believes that every person has the ability to be a leader, as long as they are willing to work on being a good human first. After that, anything is possible!

Connect with Tina: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Saskatchewan Association of Student Council Advisors

Winton High School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s special guest was referred by a past guest and her name is Tina Edwards. Tina has been an educator in Saskatchewan for the past 27 years, but still considers herself a rookie in the education game. Student leadership has been a passion of hers since she entered the teaching profession in 1994. Two highlights of her career are hosting the Saskatchewan student leadership conference in 2012 and again, in 2019. Projects like these prove that students can accomplish anything if they’re willing to work hard and work together as a team. Tina believes that every person has the ability to be a leader as long as they’re to work on being a good human first after that, anything is possible. I hope you enjoy this amazing conversation with Tina Edwards and we’ll see you on the other side.


Sam Demma (01:32):
Tina, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. You are highly recommended by not one but two past guests. Why don’t you start by yourself?


Tina Edwards (01:44):
Oh my goodness. The pressure you’re putting on me. So earlier, my name is Tina Edwards and I’m a teacher at Winston high school in Saskatchewan. I’m also the president of SASCA, which is our student leadership in Saskatchewan and yeah, that’s kind of me!


Sam Demma (02:05):
When in your journey, did you get involved in student leadership and what prompted you to move in that direction and get more, more engaged?


Tina Edwards (02:14):
Well, I, I was a student leader when I was in high school myself, so that’s kind of where my journey started. And I just, as I got into the teaching, that opportunity opened itself to me and I began taking students to leadership conferences and 20, some years later the opportunity came up that I decided let’s try and host the conference, which is a huge undertaking. Did that in 2012. And when you are hosting, you automatically go onto the SASA executive and then they just couldn’t get rid of me. And I stayed and eventually became president and hosted the conference a second time.


Sam Demma (02:55):
Ah, that’s amazing. And let’s go back for a second to you as the student leader in high school. Yeah. So if you could think back what as a student prompted you to get involved as a student leader, did you have a teacher who tap you on the shoulder or how did that journey look like?


Tina Edwards (03:12):
Well, I grew up in a small town and, and when I say small town, I’m saying under 200 people, oh wow. I, and it really just became that every project we did in that town, it needed everybody to, to make it happen. And so I grew up just watching and participating and knowing that you needed to be an active member in whatever the project ahead of you was. So that’s kind of where it started. And then I think I just had some really strong leadership skills and I wasn’t really afraid to take action. So it just kind of flowed naturally for me. And it, nobody really told me, I just thought, Hey, why can’t I, so why can’t I be a student leader? And I couldn’t come up with a good reason. So there we go.


Sam Demma (03:59):
That’s awesome. And do you still remember the teachers that were overlooking student leadership and student council back when you were in high school?


Tina Edwards (04:06):
Yeah, definitely. I do. And, and I guess I always kind of looked up to them and, and allowed them to show me what it was like to be a leader, but not necessarily being in charge and working with other people. And I really kind of admired that.


Sam Demma (04:24):
Oh, that’s awesome. And let’s continue down the journey. So you finished high school and did you know at that age that you wanted to get into teaching or how did you navigate the career search for yourself?


Tina Edwards (04:34):
Yeah, I didn’t really have a choice. It teaching career found me and I, I always coached, I taught swimming lessons. I babysat, it just was a calling and, and it, there was just no question about it. I was going to be a teacher and I had to work really hard to get into university for my first year. Cuz at that time the marks were really high to get in and I just worked hard and kept going. And that was a really easy decision for me.


Sam Demma (05:04):
Well, tell me more. Did you have like teachers tapping you on your shoulder saying, you know, Tina you’d be a great educator. Did your parents work in teaching or Nope. How did it, how did it exactly find you?


Tina Edwards (05:15):
You know, it just, I grew up wanting to be a teacher and I loved kids and I always found ways to engage in, in working with kids, whether it was volunteering or summer jobs working in a living in a small town of 200 people. You just, everybody was family and that’s, that’s what I knew I wanted.


Sam Demma (05:39):
That’s amazing. And you mentioned coaching a little as well, was four, it’s a big part of your own childhood.


Tina Edwards (05:45):
Yeah, definitely. In a small town there isn’t much to do other than the sports that happened to be in that season at that time. And, and you know what, I was never a great athlete. I, I just really enjoyed the team aspect and being part of a team and I was just happy to be there and do my part. Hmm that’s awesome. And the coach, the coaching just kind of evolved and it’s coaching and leading was never something I had to work really hard at. It just, it just felt natural for me.


Sam Demma (06:17):
And do you think coaching and leading a group are two very similar things like whether or not you’re teaching a sport, you know, working as the, you know, president of SASCA is probably similar to coaching a team in some way, shape or form. Is there a lot of similarities between the two?


Tina Edwards (06:32):
Well, I always say I’m lucky because when I think when you coach a sports team, you’re given some, some opportunities or some, some times where you have to make some really hard decisions where you’re not gonna make everybody happy. And I feel in the, in the job I have and all the, the positions I’ve had, I, I’ve never had to make somebody unhappy. Mm I’m. Just there to be a cheerleader and, and get us working towards a common goal. And, and I selfishly really appreciate that. I get to live in my happy land. Mm . I don’t have to make any game day decisions.


Sam Demma (07:09):
Yeah, I okay. Yeah. So there is one stark difference. Everyone’s happy. yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s so cool. And so start teaching or you go to teachers college, it’s a tough first year. You work through that. What did your first job in education look like? Let’s go back there for a second.


Tina Edwards (07:27):
Well, my first job was actually in another small town of Combs where actually I do live right now. Nice. I, I just took a, a maternity leave for just a few months there and I knew it was coming to an end. And so then I took a job. I was in Carlisle for two years, which was about a four hour drive away. So that was really great. It got me definitely out of my comfort zone, met some new people, really had time to figure out what I wanted my teaching career to look like. And I dove right into the community there right away. And of course, such great positive connections were made. And, and then it was just straight on from there. And then I knew I was wanting, I was going to be getting married and eventually took me a few years, but I made my way back closer to where I was getting married and where I actually live now. And now I’m in Watchers high school, Winston high school in Watchers. And this has been my 22nd year in this school.


Sam Demma (08:32):
That’s awesome. And education has had many, you know, turns and twists. And I would say most of them happened over the two and a half years. what, what are some of the challenges that the school has been faced with over the past two years? And you know, how have you strive to kind of overcome those things as a community?


Tina Edwards (08:52):
Well, our, our school really prides ourself in being a family. First, we talk about the Wildcat family and, and usually when, when people say we’re a Wildcat family, they might think we’re talking about sports. And really it is sports is a piece of it, but it is just a piece of it. We work really hard in our school to make sure everybody feels connected. We started something called wild cap pride, where all the students are divided into color groups, mixed within different grades. And we do projects every couple, couple times a month and where we get the whole group family together, a whole school together and just work together on as a team at, and we do projects like we’ll play outdoor games. We might volunteer in the community. And so when COVID hit our family, we talk about isolation and that’s what our family had to do. We, we had to break apart. We, we could no longer get together as a whole, a whole family. And, and that was really hard on us. Mm.


Sam Demma (09:59):
Yeah. And I, I couldn’t imagine, it seems like every school I talked to has had a similar, but sometimes different experiences based on location. Was your school closed down? How long did you have to isolate or did the school ever close?


Tina Edwards (10:13):
Yeah, we, we closed from may until, or sorry, March until June of 2020. Yep. And then we, where we were online a little bit in there, but that it definitely was optional for students. Mm. So it was really hard. We were trying to engage people. We were trying to get connected with our students and some didn’t wanna be you connected with, and some, maybe couldn’t be connected with cuz where they were living rural. They didn’t, their families maybe didn’t have internet connections. So it was just, it, it was a tough time cuz we were trying to make it seem normal and it, it just wasn’t.


Sam Demma (10:52):
And you were also juggling SASA at the same time. So how did that yeah. Adjust or pivot or change, you know, based on the situation, you know.


Tina Edwards (11:01):
Really ironically our school hosted the last leadership conference in, in 2019 in September, 2019. And had we known what was to come? I, I don’t know, like we were able to host it. We were so very lucky. We had to province with us. We had a thousand leaders in our town of about 2000 people. Wow. they’re


Sam Demma (11:25):
All bill it out into like different, oh,


Tina Edwards (11:27):
Bill it out. Yeah. It, it was a great experience, but we did had no idea what was coming down a few months later. So then juggling Saska was really hard because what do we do? What do we do with this poor host community Goll lake that is supposed to be hosting in, in 2021 and, or I guess it’d be 2020. Do we, do we try to make it go? Do we cancel it? What do we do with the money that they’re out? It, it was, there was just no answers. We had to really struggle hard.


Sam Demma (12:00):
Yeah. That’s a tough situation. Did did, did the conference go on in 2020? Was it postponed or yeah,


Tina Edwards (12:08):
We actually gave them the option. They could postpone it, they could cancel it. They chose to cancel it just given the group of students that they were kind of framing the conference around would then have been graduated. So and they were, they were fairly far in their planning, but money wise, they weren’t too terribly invested. Mm. So we, we supported them in counseling it and trying to just make things balance out at the end and, and call it a year. And then Melfort was, had the next host bid host and they ended up canceling theirs as well. They were just really hadn’t even really started their, their planning. So it, it, it was okay. The problem we have now though, is how do we pick this up again? Yeah. How, when, who, how, where, and that’s what we’re struggling with right now. Mm.


Sam Demma (13:06):
So future planning is currently happening. Some, some in some way, shape or form


Tina Edwards (13:11):
well and, or no planning. We, yeah, we just don’t. I mean, how does a school take upon this venture when you don’t know what tomorrow’s gonna look like? Right. And, and it takes a good solid two to three years to plan a conference like this. Yeah. So I, I have some fear that I’m not sure when the next one is going to happen.


Sam Demma (13:31):
What does the planning look like? Like give some insight into people, people listening to what a thousand person conference building and the homes in your community, the what kind of planning looks like for something like that oh,


Tina Edwards (13:43):
The planning itself. Oh my goodness. I don’t wanna scare anybody off, but it is, it is, it is so much work, but it is so rewarding at the same time. Yeah, it , I don’t even know where to begin, but yeah, it, it is, it is a lot of work, but it is, it is great to see those kids coming together and planning and, and, you know, if I always tell the students, you can’t write a marathon tomorrow, you can’t think about up that marathon. You gotta break it down into little pieces. And, and that’s what we really did. And, you know, we got our group, our planning group together. We got our community behind us, started thinking about what we wanted our conference to look like. What, what things did we wanna give to our attendees? What what are the date? What are the activities? And just broke it down into little chunks. And before you knew it, the three years of planning was over and it was go time.


Sam Demma (14:45):
I was telling you before the interview started, that, you know, I felt that when COVID initially hit, it seemed like all the emphasis and support was being placed on the students and PE you know, educators getting supported as well. But maybe it was a little more behind the scenes. And I’m curious to know, what do you think the struggles and challenges were for educators during that time, and even now coming out of it? Maybe some of the things you experienced personally, but saw your peers going through as well.


Tina Edwards (15:11):
Yeah, our, I don’t think the average teacher goes into teaching for the academic part of it only. Yep. We, we are here cuz we like, we like kids, we like, we like their energy. We like seeing what they’re capable of. And that was really difficult to see everything come to a halt and, and not being E even able to interact with the kids. Like we used to be able to last year we were in cohorts, we were all in different times and schedules and breaks and noon hours. And we literally did not see each other. And, and that was lonely. And, and you just, you’re on a little bit of an island.


Sam Demma (15:53):
Mm. And did, does SASCA also support staff or is it solely towards the student?


Tina Edwards (15:59):
It, it is advisors. Yeah. It, it is geared towards advisors. Our, our main, our main purpose though, is supporting advisors in leading and leadership in, within their schools. So we did do an online conference for students and advisors last year. I, I think we’re, we’re getting to the point though, where everybody’s had enough of online, everything like, we it’s, it’s hard to stay engaged and, and have students just stare at a computer all the time. And so we’re actually in the middle of planning, what this year’s gonna look like for SASCO we’re, we’re hanging on, we’re trying to keep our membership strong. We’re trying to offer different activities, but it’s, it’s hard.


Sam Demma (16:44):
Yeah, no, I hear you. If you, if you do something virtual, just make sure there’s some, there’s some music and dancing. Yeah.


Tina Edwards (16:53):
Our conference last year was really good. Nice. And I think the people who attended it were, were really appreciative of having that opportunity. I just don’t know if we can do it two years in a row and, and still engage the people that we’re trying to engage. So we’re really struggling on where we go from here and what it looks like, and, and it’s important. And we don’t wanna say, all right, we’re not gonna do anything for the next three years. That would be terrible if all these years of leadership conference and the memories kind of go on, go forgotten. And, and that’s what I’m trying to work hard at right now is making sure SASA and student leader stays at the front, even though we can’t do a lot of, of those typical activities.


Sam Demma (17:40):
Yeah. I think it’s an important conversation to have and start having. And it’s cool to hear that you are having it. I think that extracurriculars student leadership clubs, all of those things just add such a huge student experience to yeah. Everyone in your school, you know? Yeah.


Tina Edwards (17:55):
And students, they don’t come to school for the academics. Yeah. There’s a small majority that, that do, but I would say the most people come here for the other things, the other activities and, and , you know, the kids have been doing so well that last year they had everything canceled. Mm. And we were able to focus more on academics and they just, they did what we needed them to do. And there, there was no pity parties. We were just moving on. And so appreciative of what kids are able to do and how resilient they can be.


Sam Demma (18:31):
If, if, I guess if education was like a three course meal, academics would be like the appetizer or the dessert and oh, a


Tina Edwards (18:37):
Hundred percent. Absolutely. Yeah. And yeah, it’s just, it’s just hard cuz we know that a lot of students are struggling either in their home life or in their peer circle and or their academics. And we try to help students as a whole, not just as one part. So we’re really trying hard to connect all of those pieces and COVID is not helping us.


Sam Demma (19:02):
And why do you think student leadership and you know, everything else aside from academics is a school in a school is so important because there might be someone out there who’s not fully bought into the idea that, you know, student leadership can change a kid’s life or extracurriculars can help them build skills. They would never build elsewhere. Like why do you think student leadership and extracurriculars are important?


Tina Edwards (19:23):
Well, you know, when you look at academics, not everybody’s an academic student, they could work. So, so very hard and still never improve their academics. That can be said as well with athletics. Mm-Hmm , some students are not athletic. They could work every day and still not improve. Their athleticism student leader is about being a good human. And I really believe that everybody can be a good human. And so it’s so something that everybody can achieve and it makes a, it’s a, a fair playing ground and everybody can feel like they have an important part. And, and like I said, at the beginning, it’s like, I’m coaching a team, but I never have to make any hard decisions. Yeah. Or it’s happy


Sam Demma (20:11):
Land. Yeah. No disappointing decisions.


Tina Edwards (20:14):
Yeah, absolutely. We’re just here to make everybody’s day. Just a little bit better.


Sam Demma (20:18):
Love that. I love that. And I wanna ask you, so if, if like, if you could try and pinpoint things that teachers did for you growing up that made you happy as a student, that if you can remember, like, what do you think some of those things are that teachers can do to make their students feel good about themselves to help students realize their own potential? Because another educator might be listening and wanting to have a similar impact on their own kids.


Tina Edwards (20:45):
I just think I remember teachers who would know my name and I, they didn’t actually teach me or I, I was in a larger school and, and I just thought, you know, there’s taking a moment to say hello to me, I’m the only person with this name. They are, they’re connecting with me. And I just always thought that was really special. and I, I remember too going on sports trips and thinking this teacher is spending the whole weekend with me instead of at home with their own family. And I knew, and I knew that was something that I wanted to be able to do for other students.


Sam Demma (21:24):
I love that. So the investment of time, and also, so the personal relationship to a point where, you know, teachers go out of their way to remember your name or even like know personal things about you.


Tina Edwards (21:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and that’s, that can go such a long way in, in a student’s life. And, and that’s what I really miss the most about COVID is when students are in my, in my classroom, in our school, I kind of have my eyes on them. I know I can see when they’re struggling. I can see when somebody hasn’t eaten a very good breakfast. I can see when somebody’s had a fight at home. I can see when somebody’s struggling academically. But when I had to stay at home, I had no idea what, how my students were doing like really doing, I could, would tell maybe academically how they were doing, but all of those things that I worry about, and I wanna connect with students, I was completely removed from that. And I, I struggled with that.


Sam Demma (22:19):
And I would argue, you know, back to the name example as well, remembering people that remembered your name. I think it just applies to being, like you said, a good human people appreciate when you can address them by their name. I’ve been at the grocery store and I’ll say, hi, and address the person behind the cash by their name. And they’ll look up and be confused and say, do I know you, are you


Tina Edwards (22:42):
Shock me? yeah.


Sam Demma (22:44):
I’m like, no, I just, I just used your name. It’s on your name tag there. And you know, then they end up, you know, bursting out the biggest smile and you end up having a good two minute conversation before you put your groceries in your box and leave. Yeah. And I think when you take interest in other people, it just builds good relationships. Right?


Tina Edwards (23:01):
Absolutely. And, and what, what, just imagine what you can do once you’ve connected with somebody, once you’ve, you’ve been able to have a, a one on one conversation with them, the rest of their day, you just, you don’t know what’s gonna come after that.


Sam Demma (23:16):
Yeah. And you also never know what someone’s carrying, which is why I think kindness is so important, you know, just because you can’t see, it doesn’t mean they aren’t carrying it. And that’s something I always try and remind myself because yeah, we, we, you know, you only see them in the school building and now with COVID, you know, like you’re saying you don’t even see them in the school building, so it’s even, you know, even more important to be you.


Tina Edwards (23:35):
Luckily for us, the COVID like COVID is still here obviously, but we, we have been able to have our extracurricular activities within our school and our clubs. We can have, we, we are cohorted, but not quite as much as we were last year or as strictly, we’ve been able to do some outside whole group activities while mask. So this year’s already better than all of last year put together.


Sam Demma (24:04):
Yeah. Ah, you’re right. That’s and it’s good to see the positives too. even if they’re in a smaller.


Tina Edwards (24:10):
And that’s what, like I said to the, the students last year, we’re not having a pity party here this year. It’s, it’s, it’s different, but we’re gonna make the best of it. And, and through leadership, we, we did bingo virtually we, we did some trivia contests virtually. We did, we did our pep rallies virtually. We, we still wanted to make it, you know, those activities part of our, our school year. Although, you know, they’re not the same this year. We’re already noticing that people have a little bit more of a pep in their step. Mm. They can still have their football games. They can still go to their volleyball tournaments. There’s been a little, so some hiccups along the way, maybe a, a tournament has had to be canceled or a football game, but we’re just moving on. We don’t have time to sit and dwell in the, the negatives, no


Sam Demma (24:56):
Pity party focusing on the positives. Those are two great, no pity partying, no two great phrases and pieces of advice. I’m gonna ask you to put your thinking hat on for a second. And if you could like travel back in time you know, back to the future, but back to the past, actually. Yeah. Yeah. And you could speak to first year, Tina, when you just started teaching, but with all the wisdom and experience that you have now, like if you could walk into your own classroom, you know, that first city that you taught in that was really small, and you could walk into your own C and speak to yourself and give yourself some advice. What are a couple things that you would share?


Tina Edwards (25:32):
Well, I know for sure, I would not focus so much on the academics. Mm. Of course, when you’re coming out of university and you have your teaching degree and you’ve done your student teaching, that’s what it was about. It was about academics and I I’m a teacher and this is what I’m going to teach. Yep. And it really didn’t take me long to realize that there’s so much more to teaching than just the academics. And so I think if I could give myself a little bit of advice, I would just say, let’s not worry about that. Let’s, let’s focus on just the students themselves, the P the academic piece. We’ll talk about that a little bit later. I love, but of course, as a new teacher, you thought it was all about academics.


Sam Demma (26:15):
Yeah. And, and what does focusing on the student look like in the classroom? Is it making time for them to share their stories or like, what do you, what do you think that other time looks like?


Tina Edwards (26:24):
Yeah, just, just connecting and really appreciating where some of these students are coming from. I didn’t know what their home lives were like, and I didn’t even stop to even think about it. I just thought, okay, everybody’s coming into my classroom at the same level. And it, it really didn’t take me too long to realize that yeah, you know what, this is not quite the case. Mm. They’re not coming with the same skillset as the person may be sitting next to them.


Sam Demma (26:52):
Yeah. It’s a really smart reminder. That’s a good piece of advice to share with you, younger self. Awesome. Tina, thank you so much for coming on the show. If an educator listening and feels inspired or just wants to reach out and chat, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?


Tina Edwards (27:09):
My email is probably the best way at work. It’s tina.edwards@horizonsd.ca. And it’s funny cuz when, when you said that if somebody would wanna reach out, I often think, you know, I’m in my 27th year of teaching, but what do I really know? I wonder like what would somebody ask me? I don’t really know, but yeah. I I’m here. I’ll do my best.


Sam Demma (27:35):
That’s called the curse of knowledge. yeah,


Tina Edwards (27:38):
Yeah. Maybe.


Sam Demma (27:39):
But again, Tina, thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been awesome conversation. Keep up with the great work with school and SASA and I look forward to seeing whatever happens with the conferences and events.


Tina Edwards (27:51):
yeah. I think our, our paths are good across again, Sam.


Sam Demma (27:54):
Awesome. I’ll talk to you soon, Tina.


Tina Edwards (27:56):
Okay. Take care.


Sam Demma (27:58):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast asked as always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperforming.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tina

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 12, 2021 by Association Director Experiential Learning President Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Jeff Gerber – Speaker, Teacher, Relationship Advocate

Jeff Gerber - Speaker, Teacher, Relationship Advocate
About Jeff Gerber

Jeff (@jeffgpresents) has a natural way of connecting with people and moving them to action.  He was a leader on his high school campus, active in Student Council, won a bronze medal at the Canadian National High School Debating Championships, and was voted by his peers to be Valedictorian of their graduating class.  

At the University of Western Ontario (now Western University) he remained active in public speaking, being recognized as an Outstanding Delegate to the prestigious Harvard National Model UN and broadcasting on campus radio.  He also played several seasons with the football Mustangs earning a varsity athletic letter.

​As an educator, Jeff is blessed to teach at his alma mater.  ​As the Student Activities Council Advisor and Leadership Teacher at Waterloo-Oxford DSS, he leads one of the largest and most impactful leadership programs in the province of Ontario.  The school’s inclusive programs to welcome new students are a model for the region.  Their school-wide Relay for Life fundraising events for the Canadian Cancer Society have raised over $625,000 in the last decade. He further gives his time coaching several varsity school sports teams, and has led teams to league championship teams in two different sports.

Jeff and his wife Julie and their three children (twin daughters Brookelynn and Katherine and son Jackson) live outside Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario where they are active leaders and volunteers in their schools and community.   Jeff has served on numerous local boards, is currently a member of his local government Township Council (serving his fourth elected term), and has coached numerous local travel teams in baseball and hockey.   For his efforts and expertise in guiding young people, and their parents, he was recognized as Rep Hockey Coach of the Year for the local ​New Hamburg Hockey Association.

Jeff is a genuine motivator, always striving to learn more and do more.  He is excited to meet you and work alongside you to better your school, association, conference, or corporate community.

Connect with Jeff: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Jeff Gerber Website

Waterloo-Oxford DSS

Canadian Cancer Society

YLCC programs

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):

Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. I met today’s guest just over a year ago at a conference in Waterloo, Ontario called horizons. Jeff was there with a group of his students watching me and a couple other people speak, but you should also know Jeff himself is a keynote speaker along with being a teacher, a husband, a father, and a student leadership advisor. I’m sure you’ll realize this in the interview, but Jeff has a very natural way of connecting with people and moving them to action. Back when he was in high school, he was a leader, someone who was very involved in, he was even the valedictorian of his graduating class. And then in his university career at Western university, he remained very active in public speaking. He was recognized as an outstanding delegate at the prestigious Harvard national model UN competition.

Sam Demma (00:57):

And he also was an athlete on the football Mustangs team, earning a varsity athletic letter, very, very involved throughout all of his education. Especially now as an educator, Jeff is blessed to teach at his Alma mater where he went to school at the student activity council advisor, as the advisor and leadership teacher at Waterloo, Oxford DSS, he leads one of the larger and most impactful leadership programs in the province of Ontario. The school’s inclusive programs to welcome new students are a model for the whole region. Their schoolwide relay for life fundraising event for the Canadian cancer society has raised over $625,000 in the last decade. And further gives his time coaching several varsity school sports teams and has led teams to league championships in two different sports. Now this man needs no more introduction his ideas, his insights, his passion, his energy really shines bright and comes through during this interview.

Sam Demma (02:01):

There’s so much on building relationships that he provides, and I really hope you have a pen and paper nearby because you’re gonna be using it in this episode without further ado. Let’s get into the interview with Jeff. I’ll see you on the other side, Jeff, thank you so much for coming on the high performing educator podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you, we talked a little bit about your Bower shirt, your at the school. Can you share with the audience who you are, what you do and why you’re passionate about the work you do with you

Jeff Gerber (02:31):

Today? Yeah, that’s awesome. Thanks. thanks so much for having me Sam, great opportunity. I’ve heard some of your stuff appreciate the work that you’re doing with high performing students and now with with high performing educators yeah, Jeff Gerber, as you may, I’m a, I’m an educator. So I’ve been at the I’m blessed to serve at the same school I attended. I’ve been there over 20 years now, been involved in teaching leadership and student activities. And that’s sort of been my main role within the school coach, a bunch of different sports and all those kinds of things. Just ways to build connections with students. And then outside of school active in my active, in my local church and a member of our local township council. And and I’ve gotten started sort of dabbling into speaking and presenting myself over the last over the last couple of years as well. So that’s been a fun a fun chapter to explore too.

Sam Demma (03:17):

And a father, correct? Oh

Jeff Gerber (03:18):

Yeah, yeah. Father, husband, brother, son. Yeah. All that sort of stuff. Sorry.

Sam Demma (03:22):

<Laugh> cool. Cool. the only reason I ask is cuz you mentioned shoehorning your own kids into hockey and they were growing up. <Laugh> what gets you passionate about the work you do with youth though? Is, is there a reason you got into education? Every time I talk with an educator and I, them that question, they usually say it was, you know, a tap on the shoulder or something happened, but I find everyone has a unique story. What, what, what got you into this? Yeah,

Jeff Gerber (03:47):

I think, I think probably for me it was, it was the opportunity to give back. I, as I mentioned, I’m blessed to serve at the school that I went to. I had a number of educators who, who built into my life, who gave me opportu to, to try things and do things and explore and discover, you know, talents and interests that I might not have known I had otherwise. And, and the opportunity to sort of, you know, do that in return and sort of, you know, pay it forward, pay it back. However you will was sort of you know, was certainly alluring to me. I mean, selfishly I mean the lifestyle for, you know, for families and, and for kids and all that sort of stuff is awesome as well. But I mean it, it’s hard work harder now than ever obviously. But yeah, I think mainly that chance to sort of, you know, just to sort of give back and, and give students an opportunity just to, just to flourish and, and, and discover themselves and grow.

Sam Demma (04:37):

Hmm. I love that. And I’m, I’m sure I’m certain, you have unique perspectives being both the father and a teacher as do many educators in talking about hard times right now, things are different and they are difficult. What are some of the challenges you’ve been seeing and how have you overcome them or, you know, went around them or dug under them, you know, got, got over them in some way, shape or form. Yeah.

Jeff Gerber (04:59):

I, I mean, obviously the challenge challenges and this isn’t just an education, but, but isolation is, is one of the huge challenges that we’re all dealing with right now. In school we see that just in a loss of the activities and the things that would normally give students an opportunity to connect. Yeah. So you just, you know, so you try to continue to provide those opportunities just in the, just in the new you know, just in the new realm. And certainly one thing I think, think that we’re finding this fall is, I mean, last spring was tough, right? We sort of, we, it’s funny. We had, we, we went back and found one of our, like our outdoor sign binder at school. When we put up the new sign in September, we had had a message in there, you know, March 15th you know, happy March break classes resume April 6th, right?

Jeff Gerber (05:39):

Because when we left for those two weeks after March break, that’s what we all thought was happening. So what we’re learning, I think is it’s, it’s a lot harder starting the year, this way than it is than it was ending the year mm-hmm <affirmative> wrapping things up in April, may and June, at least had seven months under your belt of working with students every day and knowing them and getting to know them and educating ’em, all that sort of stuff, starting it from scratch, launching it from scratch is, is a, is a different kettle of fish. We’re sort of in hybrid quad Mester. I mean, all the new words are so, so there’s a lot of unintended consequences of just the way the timetables set up and how often you’re seeing kids are not seeing kids. And it just takes a lot of your assumptions and ways you’ve done things. And you just have to, you know, you’re almost like starting over almost like being a new teacher in a way.

Sam Demma (06:23):

Yeah. Have you experimented with anything or maybe not yourself, but have seen other people try some things, a lot of people mention throwing spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks has any spaghetti stuck for you so far. And maybe you could share that experience.

Jeff Gerber (06:39):

Well, I think, I think one of the, one of the opportunities that sort of come outta this are, I’m not sure if it, you know, if we’ve got sort of specifics down pat, but yeah. But one of the things I think is the idea that in, in the old, you know, in, in normally you’d have your leadership students, which is the people I’d be involved with, you know, running large scale events and giving all sorts of opportunities for people to connect with each other that they don’t normally connect with. Right. and now, so I sort of, I, we just talked about this at a, at a staff meeting last night, I sort of said, you know, normally we’d be crop dusting and, you know, providing all these opportunities out there for people to plug in and meet each other. Well, right now we don’t have any of those, right.

Jeff Gerber (07:16):

We’re not allowed to meet beyond the 15 kids in our cohort, in our classroom. So now instead of crop dusting, we’re doing all the weeding by hand. So it’s basically each individual teacher has those 15 kids. And, and you’re the ones that need to provide those opportunities for kids to connect and get to know each other. You need to maybe be a bit more, more vulnerable than you’ve normally been. You need to maybe take a bit of your academic time, set it aside to, to, to build connections. Because I think any of those opportunities and now people are sort of realizing that, yeah, I can’t just, there isn’t just a, a pumpkin car contest or some, or some charity thing, or, you know, what we call it sock pack at our school. Other schools call it link crew, whatever. Like there aren’t all these other things going on that are connecting people. I’m all they got. So, you know, so we’re just trying at our school anyway, to just empower the educators in our school and give them some of the tools and the resources and free them up to do some of the stuff that, you know, leadership or activities or other people might have done before. And, and that’s sort of neat to see and everybody’s sort of doing it their way. We’ve provided them with some tools and some resources, but yeah,

Sam Demma (08:19):

I know you do a lot of speaking on building relationships on student leadership. Why is these opportunities given to students so important and impactful?

Jeff Gerber (08:30):

Yeah. well, I have a little saying the, the biggest ship in leadership is relationships. So to me it all comes down to sort of connecting people, like I said before, the analogy I like to you uses we’re sort of and this is an old movie reference. I sometimes make old movie references, which I, I don’t wanna date myself, but I love the movie hitch and will Smith plays Alex Hitchens and his job is to let people meet who might not otherwise have met and give them opportunities to sort of build relationships. And I think in a school that’s sort of what activities and leadership is all about. It’s letting people at again, whatever event you’re running, that’s sort of the backdrop for just allowing these people to meet and get to know each other that might not otherwise have connected.

Jeff Gerber (09:09):

And it’s interesting just to see how, how people’s relationships and friendships and things form the opportunities to get at school. Like, it’s always interesting to me to read, you know, students who are writing sort of their last sort of letter in, in a, in a leadership class at the end of grade 12, reflecting back on the people they met in their group at grade nine night and how the friendships that came out of that you know, the opportunities to have a microphone in your hand, in front of a group of people know the opportunity to, to come up with a slogan or pick a theme song or somehow influence or shape things that are happening. And I, you know, I, I think that’s exciting and, you know, that’s sort of, you know, like we talked about at the beginning and that sort of motivates me, and I think it’s an important, and it’s an important part of school, right? There’s so much more to school. I mean, we could go on about how much, you know, in academics is it’s important to, it’s probably half of what kids need to succeed in their life outside of school. There’s a lot of other pieces there. And you know, and, and activities, athletics clubs, teams I’ll provide that. I’m I’m, I mean, I’m, I’m sure it made a difference in your life, you know, in, in your time as a student.

Sam Demma (10:09):

Yeah. I mean, my whole life changed because of, of an educator who believed in me when I was in a tough situation, which is why I wanted to actually ask you, I’m sure. In the dozens of years you’ve been teaching, you’ve had students write you those letters that you mentioned at the end of leadership class that probably bring you to tears sometimes and really show you why the job you do is so important. There’s some educators listening who might feel burnt out and may have a loss of hope. Right, right. Now, can you think of a story of a student who was so impacted by leadership activities by school culture, by relationships that were built that you’d like to share and the more open and vulnerable the story is, the more it’ll resonate. So feel free to change a student’s name for a privacy reason. But does any story kind of stick out in your yeah, I mean

Jeff Gerber (10:56):

I mean, I, I, there’s so many I mean, it’s funny, we’re just like, well, I, I wanna ask you about your social media freeze later, but <laugh> I, I, I haven’t been on it as much lately as I normally am, but I just saw a former student just posting their story. They’re running the relay for life for Carlton university. So I just sent them a quick note, Hey, congrats. You know, they were involved in relay at our school, you know, this is three years later. And they just sort of messes me back quick. Hey, it’s just neat to put into practice all the things that you know, that we had a chance to learn in school. But I think, I think the story I’ll share is one of the things I’ve started learning to do this in the last year or so is check in with students on a more regular basis.

Jeff Gerber (11:32):

And I got this idea from another organization that I’ve started doing some work with called character strong. And it’s called it, it just, it’s just a, it’s just a check in, you can either do it daily or weekly. It’s just a Google form. Hey, how are you today? One to five. Why do you feel this way? And you don’t have to answer right. That’s totally optional. And I had a, I had a group that I started with in the real classroom and ended up in the virtual world and we’ll call ’em the three Amigos. And they were just, well, you just sort of knew going in, just so sometimes you just look at your class list and, you know, okay. I, you know, I’ve got these three they’re in the same room and the first day did not go well.

Jeff Gerber (12:10):

And I just sort of closed the, I just asked them stay, cuz you don’t want to, you know, confront people in front of other people. Like it’s not about, you know, it’s not about power. It’s not about, it’s about, Hey, you know, we’re gonna get through this. How are we gonna do it? I just sort of closed the door. And I said, I know maybe you’re used to, you know, getting sent to the office a lot, cuz I, I know that you’re I see you there. But I just want you to know that whatever happens here, this, this room is like Vegas, whatever happens in this room stays. So we’re gonna deal with whatever happens in here. I’m not setting you off somewhere else. I’m not, you know, you’re not anybody else’s concern right now except except mine. Mm. And that was sort of just to sort of set the tone that, Hey, I, you know, I care about you and we’re gonna, you know, whatever is bothering you right now, or today or the next day, we’ll sort of get through it together.

Jeff Gerber (12:53):

And through the check-ins you sort of start to learn a little bit more about people’s backgrounds. And then the one day the one guy was just sort of, you know, he was, he was on his phone and looking down and I could see he was sort of troubled and he, he eventually left the room and I just sort of fall out in the hall. I said, Hey, what’s wrong? And he started crying and he was having some problems with his dad and you know, his dad was sort of disowning him, sounded like, and, and we just had a, a real, just a real good conversation about that. And then when we went to the virtual world, we were able to sort of, again, through the check-ins and through Google meets and through, you know, emails back and forth, just sort of just sort of keep in touch.

Jeff Gerber (13:27):

And it was interesting. We had this huge spreadsheet of of kids who were just sort of dropping off the end of the map, you know, dropping off the end of the, of the know, like it’s April and may and they’re not connecting, they’re not. And it was interesting just tracking him through this process. And it was at one point there was a note beside his file just said, civics with Gerber is the only class he’s doing <laugh> and, and he had, he had already told everybody else he had. And, and the only reason I think that was, was because we had taken some time in to look a little bit deeper into each other’s lives and understand each other a little better and find out what each other are going through. So I think that was sort of, you know, that sort of extended into COVID and that was just a simple daily, check-in just an opportunity.

Jeff Gerber (14:08):

Hey, and again, you don’t have to write anything, but you know, what’s going on. And and it just opens the doors to so many other things. And, and that’s one of the things we’ve been doing at our school. And I, we’ve sort of launched character strong at our school this fall. And, you know, just trying to get some again, what I talked about before, give each individual teacher the chance to build those relationships and connections, because I mean, the research shows that it’s the number one thing that that’s gonna, you know, that’s gonna turn a kid around or, or help a kid stay engaged.

Sam Demma (14:34):

Speaking of character strong, I know Houston talks so much about kindness. Yes. I’m curious to know how do we, how do we make sure students feel and receive those acts of kindness even a, even in a virtual world?

Jeff Gerber (14:47):

Yeah. I mean, you gotta keep it, you gotta keep it front and center. Right. I mean, you, you also have to model it, right. I mean, that’s one of the things, I mean, it’s one of the things I like about, I like about, about, about character strong is it’s not something it’s not, it’s not something to do to students. It’s something done with students like the adult work in the building, you know, what the adults are modeling as far as their relationships with students, their relationships with each other. I mean, that’s all that also important. And there, and what the other thing about, I mean, and anybody who’s listened to Houston knows this, like there’s so many other, like, I know he hates the phrase, you know, throw kindness, throw kindness around like, like confetti, right. He hates that because he thinks it sort of cheapens, you know, there’s, there’s a little bit more to it than that, right?

Jeff Gerber (15:26):

There’s a, a few things that undermine kindness, right? Some skills you need to know. Empathy’s a big one, right. And, and we know kids today research tells us, I mean, they’re more anxious, you know, than ever. Right. Michelle BBA and her book on selfie talks about the relationship between anxiety and empathy, right. Mm-Hmm <affirmative> as anxiety increases, empathy decreases. So you’ve got a whole, you know, you’ve got a generation that’s generally for a whole other set of reasons, preexisting COVID, you know, who are already perhaps more isolated, more lonely, less connected, and more anxious in previous generations. And then you throw this into the mix. So just, you know, just sort of being able to, to remind students that, you know, we’re all in our, we’re all on our own ship during this storm <laugh> and we’re all experiencing it differently. Right.

Jeff Gerber (16:12):

So the storm’s big, but you know, some of us are in a rowboat. Some of us are, you know, some of us are in yachts and it hasn’t really affected us at all. And others are, are sinking every day. And you know, just sort of keeping that first and foremost, another need another need analogy. I mean, this kind of, you know, focusing on these kinds of things, it’s, it’s like parenting, like, it’s not like a, it’s not like a 10 minute lesson, or it’s not like an assembly where, okay, we’ve checked it off. We’ve, we’ve talked about kindness today. We put up the poster, it’s all done, you know, it’s you have to do it, you know, it’s gotta be part of, it’s gotta just be built right in there. It’s like, you know, the weeding that we’re doing every day, those, you know, showing grace and, you know, there a couple little sayings in the COVID world that, I mean, people in education have probably seen them, but, you know, relationships before rigor, you know, connection before content, grace, before grades, you know Maslow before bloom, like there’s a lot of different sort of phrases to sort of remind us all that, you know, as much as we’re as much as we’re worried that, Hey, I’m not getting through my, my grade 11 university math CU, right.

Jeff Gerber (17:14):

We’ve got students in front of us who have a whole lot of other things going on in their lives right now. And focusing on those is actually gonna help us teach the curriculum. Right. Sometimes we see these two things as opposing each other, right? Like socially emotional learning or character development and academics. They actually, they actually work together really well, which again, is someone who’s been involved in leader. If you see that, right. The more kids are engaged and connected to other people, the better they’re gonna do. So, you know, some people say, well, you know, that assembly just cost me an hour of, you know, time in the lab. Right. Well, yeah, it did. But you know, we might have, we might have done some other stuff in that time as well. And, and you know that from being in schools and how important that time is, and those messages are

Sam Demma (17:54):

It’s true. And you were the perfect example with your student in class, that little conversation that you had with him in the hallway led to him staying in only your class. And I think that’s half the reason why student leadership is so effective, you make, so someone feel like they’re a part of the family and they’re gonna contribute to the family and not slack off as much. Yeah. Speaking about student leadership, I know you’ve worked in it for so long events. This year are canceled. Not maybe not canceled. Totally. We’re gonna get unique about it and do things differently. Yep. What do you, think’s gonna happen in the next couple of months with events, with speaking, with all those sorts to things?

Jeff Gerber (18:29):

Yeah. I mean, there’s certainly some opportunities to do things in the virtual world. And I know a number of, I mean, I know you’ve been involved in a number of those virtual events and, and run a number of them yourself. And we’ve been involved in a couple of them together. I know that when they took GSL S or GSL D and when Y L C C, who does so many awesome things across the country for students both LCC and CSLA, I know you had Dave Conlan on on your show as well. You know, they’re both providing great frameworks for, for virtual materials to be delivered and, and entrepreneurs and speakers and, you know, leadership, examples like yourselves are also doing that. So even OS L C I know, is gonna be running virtual this you know this fall. So there’s, there is certainly lots of opportunities and ways to connect with people, you know, that you wouldn’t have had that you wouldn’t have had otherwise.

Jeff Gerber (19:17):

And, and, and in your building, you know, there’s ways to, you know, there’s ways to do that as well. You know, you know, virtual, pep rallies, and, you know, you’re bringing people together and having live hosts or recording it and, you know, all the, all those things are good. It, it is also uncharted territory. And, and for, you know, to sort of say right now, Hey, I got this idea and it’s gonna work. Nobody, you know, nobody really knows yet. And, and even, and it’s hard to even gauge, you know? Yeah. I guess you can see if you’re posting, you know, if your school’s posting stories on it to Instagram, you know, you can see how many people are viewing it and all that kind of stuff. There’s some ways, but it’s, you know, it’s, it’s different. That’s all there is to it.

Sam Demma (19:53):

Yeah. No, it’s all true. Very different. And I think anyone who’s in their first year of teaching is thinking, what the heck did I just sign up for? Yeah, exactly. If you could sit down with an educator, just let’s say, it’s yourself, you know, 20 something years ago, and you’re speaking to your younger self, and this was your first year of teaching and it’s crazy. It’s different. What advice would you give that younger self or that new educator?

Jeff Gerber (20:18):

Yeah, I mean, I would, I would just sort of reiterate some of the things we’ve been talking about is, you know, focusing on relationships, focusing on connections, looking for opportunities to, to put yourself out there and to give students a chance to share a little, a bit, you know, off, off topic. And, and there’s so many ways to build it in, like in, in addition to being involved in leadership. I mean, I’m, I’m lucky I’m into social sciences. So people always say, well, it’s a little easier, but you still have to, you still have to intentionally do it. Like when I’m teaching civics and I’m talking about, you know, civics is really, you know, how people live together in groups. Yeah. Well, what personal characteristics help people live together in groups better? And that’s a launching point to talk about some of these things like, you know, kindness and respect and forgiveness and all that other stuff you know, in careers, yeah.

Jeff Gerber (21:01):

Careers is about what do you want to be when you grow up? But let’s talk about what kind of, you know, how do you want to be when you grow up, what person you want to be when you grow up? Mm. So whatever subject area you’re in, you know, find those opportunities to, you know, to bring in something, to bring in something from today, or to bring in something from, you know, current and, and, and just have a conversation about it. I mean, you know, I think that’s what people, I think that’s what people remember. You know, I mean, there’s a famous Maya Angelou quote, right. People, you know, they might not remember what you say or what you do, but they’re always gonna remember how you make them feel. Mm-Hmm <affirmative>. So if you, as an educator can sort of focus on, you know, how are my students gonna feel when they’re, you know, when they leave this interaction with me or when they leave this class, or when they leave this Google meet, right. Or this zoom meeting, you know, are they gonna feel like they were heard to listen to, or are they gonna feel like, you know, I was just so, you know, I was just in such a to get through the quadratic equation that I didn’t even, you know, that I didn’t even realize what was going on, you know, in the room or, you know,

Sam Demma (21:53):

Whatever. That’s awesome. This has been a great conversation, Jeff, I’m sure we could talk for hours. If any other educator wants to reach out to you, bounce a conversation around, share some ideas, how can they do that? Yeah, for

Jeff Gerber (22:06):

Sure. Yeah. email like jeffgerber.ca works. I am on Instagram and Twitter, @jeffgpresents. So those are all ways to ways to sort of connect and, and, and speaking of social now, I know you’re the interviewer, but I know I know let’s see about two or three weeks ago, you sort of, you sort of made this to you know, to social media free year, which I think is amazing. And I’m just curious and I don’t know, maybe you have a whole other, a whole other way to update your, your listeners as to how it’s coming, but just between me and you, I’m curious.

Sam Demma (22:41):

Yeah. So we’re still live so everyone can hear this as well. There was three reasons that I decided to take a break. The, the last reason I’ll go from the third to the first, the last reason was just to try and experiment. Everyone is spending so much more time on their devices now because of COVID, especially, and screen times through the roof. I, I was like thinking to myself, what would happen if I do the exact opposite and instead of spending way more time spend no, and kind of get lost in my boredom and live life as if I was growing up in your generation, <laugh> without a cell phone. And <laugh> see what it’s like. This, the second reason in the middle was a personal reason. I found that on social media, it’s one so easy to compare yourself to others, but two, it’s also so easy to fall into this trap of always feeling like you need to tell everybody what you’re doing.

Sam Demma (23:35):

Yeah. And if I’m being vulnerable and honest right now on the podcast, I think I didn’t use social media as effectively as I could. Not every single one of my posts were about, Hey, look at me. And here’s what I’m doing. But a majority of them were, whereas they could have been of service to others. Hey, here’s something that can help you. If it’s a picture of me speaking in a school, it’s not just, Hey, I spoke to all these kids. It’s I spoken to school today. And this girl came up to me and taught me this lesson that I think might be of service. And so I thought, let me not just back in with this new mindset and get back on the app right away. Let me take a break and try and dismantle that ego that I have. I’m still a young guy.

Sam Demma (24:10):

I’m figuring it out. The first reason was related to business. I always convinced myself that I was on social media for business, and I did it myself, an audit and found that I spend an average of three hours per day on social that equates to about 1,095 hours in a year. And I had about two speeches booked through social media. And I asked myself is 1,095 hours worth the two talks. And on the very surface level, the answer is no. But what it made me realize was if I spend that 1,095 hours trying to instead be of service level up me, my life, and work on myself, read more books, relating to self leadership for young people that I can actually use to help others. And like you said, build relationships, real relationships with real people, as opposed to staring at a picture online, maybe in a year from now, my life will be totally different and I’ll have something unique to share. So

Jeff Gerber (25:02):

Yeah, no, that’s no, that’s real great. I, I really appreciate you sharing that. That’s yeah, I, I, yeah, I like it.

Sam Demma (25:09):

I like it. Yeah. And it’s, it’s weird. It’s odd. It’s out there. It’s a big decision. I thought like, let, just look for it all <laugh> and

Jeff Gerber (25:16):

It’s a year, like a lot of people will, you know, you’ll, you’ll see people, Hey, I’m gonna stay on social media until tomorrow. Right. Or I, or I gonna give it a week or a month, I mean, a year. That’s awesome.

Sam Demma (25:25):

Yeah. So we’ll see how it goes, but I will be staying up to date through this podcast. People can register and sign up to get all the new episodes. And maybe Jeff will be the messenger. <Laugh> putting it out there. But

Jeff Gerber (25:38):

Now I have dilemma. I haven’t posted, I haven’t posted for, I don’t know when the last time was sometime this summer, I had a fair, how do I post I can’t, if I tag you, you’re not even gonna repost. So I, but let the world discover us.

Sam Demma (25:48):

It’s true. Anyways, Jeff, thanks so much for coming on this show, man. It’s been a real pleasure.

Jeff Gerber (25:52):

Hey, thanks for having me, Sam loved it. Thank you. Keep up the great work.

Sam Demma (25:55):

Awesome. And there you have it. The full interview with Jeff Gerber, he would love for you to reach out and connect and talk about relationships and different ideas that are working in your schools or to pick his, his brain and ask him something related to the interview that you just listened to. But as always, if you have some ideas and insights that you would love to share on this show, we would love to have you on and share them for you. So please shoot us an email at info@samdemma.com. So we can get you on the show and as always, please consider leaving a rating and review because if you do, it would help more educators, just like you find this content and benefit from the ideas and the network. Anyways, I will see you on the next episode. Talk soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jeff Gerber

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 11, 2021 by Professor Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Chelle Travis – Executive Director of SkillsUSA

Chelle Travis - Executive Director at SkillsUSA
About Chelle Travis

Chelle Travis (@TheChelleTravis) is the executive director of SkillsUSA, a national organization of nearly 400,000 teachers and students within career and technical education. Travis was appointed in 2019 to lead a staff of 35 that manages a federation of 52 state and territorial associations. SkillsUSA’s mission is to empower members to become world-class workers, leaders and responsible citizens. It improves the quality of our nation’s future skilled workforce.

With more than 17 years’ experience in career and technical education, Travis has served in a variety of academic settings, including secondary institutions, universities, and technical and community colleges. Most recently, she was the senior director of workforce and economic development at the Tennessee Higher Education Commission (THEC), where she was charged with building partnerships with employers, workforce agencies and postsecondary institutions. She was the primary point of contact at THEC due to her knowledge of technical education, work-based learning experiences, alternative credentialing, competency-based education and experiential learning. She also managed all external workforce grants issued by THEC.

Formerly, Travis served as associate vice chancellor for students for the Tennessee Board of Regents College System of Tennessee, where she provided leadership in promoting student initiatives across 40 technical and community colleges.

Travis holds a bachelor’s degree in business administration and finance, and a master’s degree in business administration, from Middle Tennessee State University. She is a doctoral student at Tennessee State University.

Connect with Chelle: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

SkillsUSA Organization

What is Career and Technical Education (CTE)?

SkillsUSA Membership Kits

SkillsUSA New Chapter Guide

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma today’s guest on the podcast is Chelle Travis. She is the executive director of skills USA, a national organization of nearly 400,000 teachers and students within career and technical education. Travis was appointed in 2019 to lead a staff of 35 that manages a Federation of 52 state and tutorial associations skills. USA’s mission is to empower members to become world-class workers, leaders, and responsible citizens. She’s been in this work for more than 17 years, and it is my absolute pleasure to bring her on the show here today, to talk about her journey into leadership and all the challenges that they are overcoming at skills USA during this tough time. I hope you enjoy the interview. I’ll see you on the other side, Chelle Travis, thank you so much for coming on the high-performing educator podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you start off by sharing with the audience who you are and why you got into the work you do with young people today.


Chelle Travis (01:07):
So I’m Chelle Travis. I’m the executive director of skills USA, and I’m very excited to be here with you today. Thank you for having me, Sam. I actually got into education and specifically career technical student organizations because of an advisor I had in high school. So like many of our students across the nation, there is that one person, their advisor that makes an impact on their life. And Ms. Webb was that for me that she taught me leadership skills. I was very shy. Didn’t necessarily like to speak in front of people. And she opened me up to a world that I did not know that would exist for me. She took me on my first my first trip in, in a plane to a student conference, a leadership conference and, and actually started my journey there, so wanted to reinvest in and pay it forward for what someone had done in my life. So I would a lot to her.


Sam Demma (02:21):
That’s awesome. Shout out, Mrs. Webb, what point in your journey did you know I’m going to be a worker in education? Was there like, was there a certain moment you made the decision that you can remember or was it just a lifelong decision?


Chelle Travis (02:37):
So my mother was as Siki educator and I said, I would say there were two very strong women in my life. I’ve Ms. Webb. And then my mother my mother was CP educator for 40 years and a CTSO advisor. I watched her advocate for CTE my entire life. And so I always was very impressed by her passion and her dedication to her students. However like many young adults, you don’t necessarily want to do what your parents did. Right. So thought it gets that thought it gets that for, for a while. And then I met my next mentor Dr. Williams when, my first about first day actually on my college campus, I became his student worker. And he was in the office of student services again, working with students organizations. And then at that time I realized that you know, this is what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I started I stopped fighting it and started running towards it. And and really embracing that at that point.


Sam Demma (03:48):
And I know you’ve been doing this for years now. The challenges this year are unique to all the challenges you might’ve faced in the past. And I’m sure there’s things that have been very successful and things you have also learned from one of those huge successes, which we briefly talked about before this recording was the fact that you raised your organization and your partner, a partner raise over $300,000. Can you shed some light on that success during COVID and as well as some learnings, if you have any?


Chelle Travis (04:14):
Absolutely. So I would say that in this moment in time right now we can make a significant difference in elevating our public perception of the value of career and technical education. Now is really our time and our student skills have always been essential. But I think the pandemic has really put a light, a spotlight on the need for CTE in America and right now. And so our our partners very, very excited about the commitment of our partners. They really stepped up and, and saw this need and really wanted to help us elevate career and technical education and wanted to make sure that skills USA had the resources that it needed to actually be able to provide services for our students across the nation. We serve students across all 50 states two territories and the district of Columbia approximately 400,000 members, students and instructors every year and over 20 and about 20,000 classrooms in the United States.


Chelle Travis (05:27):
So so a very large large range and an opportunity to reach even more students every year as a, as we elevate CTE and they see the importance and we’re able to tell our story and they are, and Carhartt who is a great partner, longstanding partner of skills USA. So our labor day as an opportunity to really recognize the value of skilled trades to elevate CTE and to support skills and the mission of our organization. So I’m very excited to have such a great partner. They aren’t our only partners. We’ve had other partners that have set up during this time to really help our students and our instructors during very challenging times.


Sam Demma (06:15):
That’s awesome. And out of the smorgasborg of challenges we’re faced with right now, what are some of the ones that you’re currently facing as an organization? Maybe some of what you’ve already overcome, but some you’re still dealing with today.


Chelle Travis (06:29):
So a large challenge, as you say, across America, as we’re going into the fall and into a new school year is normally a time for if you’re an instructor, if you’re in education. And also if you’re a student, I have a, a second grader and, and, you know, you love getting that new if you have a elementary school student. And I think I even did in high school enjoy, you know, getting those new school supplies, getting that new backpack. And there was always this anticipation of the new year to come and, and for an instructor and advisor, that new group of students that you’re going to be able to impact their lives and, and really grow with them throughout the year. And it’s always very exciting and this year was a little different and then than normal it not knowing the, the difference from state to state and even within each district from district to district about what the move forward plans would be, whether classrooms would be all grounds virtual or a combination of the two in a hybrid classroom.


Chelle Travis (07:36):
And as we’ve seen that in, you know, our instructors concerned about their safety and their students and how they would put precautions in place if they were going on grounds to make sure that, you know, their students and the protection of their students and themselves their safety was first. And so those challenges and as students, you know, we’ve seen across our membership where students have gone on Graham one week and then instructors in their online the next weekend. And really, so the many challenges that our students and instructors space, we face as an organization and trying to make sure that we’re, we’re meeting them where they are. So we really did see in the summer making sure that we could pivot all of our resources to make sure that they were on all available to our instructors and to our students, no matter what that learning environment not be.


Chelle Travis (08:39):
And because we know even with all the challenges and, and our instructors and our students are so resilient and have been so adaptable during this time and very strong, I really do applaud everything that they are doing and make sure that they’re still able to meet their students’ needs in the classroom. But we, we spent a lot of hours and still are pivoting everything that we do from what they would normally receive possibly in person to making sure that all of that was available to our students and instructors in a virtual format and even more because not knowing if you’re going to have a chapter online or whether it’s online or whether it’s going to be virtual, or how do I meet with my students for my chapter, if they’re not going to get together, or if half of them are online and half of them on our ground.


Chelle Travis (09:36):
And so it’s such a challenging time, but we’ve tried to encourage our instructors about providing them resources for their classroom that it’s not time to pause. Our students really do need skills USA right now more than, than ever in skills USA. Not only do we, do we provide students with those personal skills workplace skills and their technical skills grounded on academics to really make sure that they’re ready to enter the workplace, but we give them a sense of belonging and a place you know, that, that they can be with their their fellow students. And at a time when so many things have been canceled and their, their life, we can, can be a positive a positive place for them to to belong in and also to make a difference in their lives, still in a virtual world. So we’ve really tried to provide those resources and continue to provide those to our instructors. And I think the challenging thing that we all face is just really continuing to adjust to what is our for now our new normal.


Sam Demma (10:57):
Yeah, I totally agree that this type of work, this selfless work is needed now more than ever when students are down, I think that’s when they need the most help. And with all the challenges that we’re facing, those three pillars of technical skills, personal skills and career skills are so important. And I would assume that a lot of the personal skills that are taught at skills USA are through live events, like case competitions and conferences and national conferences. How are you adjusting those? Are they being put online? Are they being put on hold this year? What’s the direction that your company has taken organization has taken to address that


Chelle Travis (11:34):
Again? We, we do feel that it is no time to pause for our students. So I’m very proud of the work of our state and of our staff at the national office to make sure that that can happen. So right now we, throughout the summer we trained our state officers virtually for our state. Now we are leading into season four. If states needed assistance, they would normally have all leadership conferences. We have assisted our states in making sure that they can have those virtual experiences for students for their leadership conferences and also with online as state officers and chapter officer experiences and making sure that they’re, they are able to, to have those leadership experiences as well. We have a, we have an empowering experiences team and that empowering experiences team have really, they’ve done a great job in making sure that that there are experiences all year long for our chapters.


Chelle Travis (12:46):
So while we know our our state and our capture advisors have a heavy list this year in trying to provide additional resources and additional activities that they can take in and put into their classroom. And why virtual events for their students to be connected through a series of task force and in, in looking at what our students would be interested in and would be engaged in and making sure that we can meet their needs. We also, for our instructors this year we elevated the number of professional membership resources that they have so toolkit that they can take videos that they can use lesson plans that they can use in their classroom to make sure that they’re still integrating that skills USA experience and that we are integrating all of those framework skills into the classroom and providing those resources for our for our advisors and also our our experiences also for our chapters, our program of work tool kit.


Chelle Travis (13:58):
So they are chapter activities can still take place. We have developed those chapter it tool kit, and then also in looking at their championships, cause you talked about those and local championship guides that can assist them in their classroom. During this time in technical in technical opportunities as well. So you, you asked about conferences, so we have those happening this fall. One commitment that we have made and that we’ve made to our membership is that we will have a national conference this year. So look for more information on that. And November 16th is, is the date that we shared with our membership at the beginning of this fall that we would share the decision of the delivery of our national conference. And so, so then our championship team and our education team, as well as our health staff has been working on what that national conference may look like championships is, is also looking at how we can deliver how we can help states deliver virtual conferences, if that is, is what their state is going to need or hybrid conferences and in assisting in providing resources and platform opportunities for that delivery.


Chelle Travis (15:21):
But we will be offering our national conference with, with sessions and and actually opportunities to connect with employers our textbooks, whether that’s on ground or online and, and also we will be offering competition opportunities and all of our trade areas. So we’ve really been working hard this year, not only to learn from those experiences across the nation and in what we can do for our students. But also we belong to a community of world skills and we’ve been learning from our, their nations and in what they’re going through as well. We’re not alone in this pandemic and skilled trades are needed not just in our country, but around the world. And and so learning from those nations and how they’re meeting the needs of their students as well have informed our decisions.


Sam Demma (16:22):
That’s amazing. I want to take you back for one second to Mrs. Webb and explore what she did for you. And you were a student that really lit a fire within your heart to, to, to chase this stuff. Where’s she, like, if you can pinpoint some of her character traits that really stood out to you, so other educators listening might be able to do the same thing for their students, that’d be really helpful.


Chelle Travis (16:46):
So I said that I was shy. So if somebody saw that and then you made it in high school, they would probably say that’s not true. Most people would have thought that I was, I was an extrovert. I love surrounding myself with people like making a difference in other students’ lives. However, I was say Saferight was as something that I had, and he might not have thought that either, but so Ms. Webb of one of the things is that she saw something in me and, and believed in me and actually instilled the confidence in myself that that I could become both a leader on our campus, but later a student later in our state and in our region and and, and believes in me and that was the first thing is that she gave me an opportunity.


Chelle Travis (17:44):
That is something that I share with, when I was in Tennessee and worked at the state director is skills USA. I’ll always said, it’s our it’s our responsibility. It was my responsibility as an instructor. It was our responsibility as as a state association to give students opportunity and it’s up to them what they do with those and a lot of times, but to come alongside them and to support them and help them. But sometimes that’s all it takes is to, to believe in your students, to give them the opportunity and to instill in them the confidence that they can do, that she showed me and helped me overcome my fears and, and helps me work through those. And, and that opportunity was mine if I was if I wanted to and would they committed. And so I will never forget that Phantom of the opera I’ll just share with you that was, she played that. So before any we would be in her car growing, going across the state, I would be getting ready to speak. And I came from a very small high school. So I was my high school, I graduated with 68 people. I was preparing to speak to 5,000.


Chelle Travis (19:03):
And so and so we played Phantom of the opera all the way across the state until we got until we got there to that conference. And then, you know, and then the next thing was to prepare me and one of my classmates to, to present to a to a national conference as, as well. So she took me on step to mentor Ernie and, and really made sure that that whatever it was that I needed to, to come on earth to get over that hurdle, she was going to help me find that and then and practice and, and make sure that I was ready for that opportunity. So


Sam Demma (19:46):
That’s amazing. I resonate with their story so much because I’ll throw a high school. I want it to be a pro soccer player. I ended up having some major knee injuries lost a scholarship to the U S and I had a teacher. I was supposed to go to Memphis and Tennessee, and my teacher’s name was Michael loud foot. And he believed in me when I was down. Like, I didn’t believe in myself. And he taught me this lesson that a small, consistent action can make a massive change and then challenged me to go out in the community and do something. And that led to a bunch of social enterprise work here in Ontario with picking up garbage. It’s a funny story. I’ll get into it a different time, but I so deeply resonate with you. And I’m curious to know if in your reverse role as a mentor for thousands of students. Now, if you have any stories of students that were just like you, who who’s who’s, who was impacted by the work you do with skills USA that you’d like to share. And it could be a very personal story of a student who has been profoundly impacted, but you can change their name for privacy reasons. The reason I is because an educator might be listening, who is a little burnt out, and I want to remind them why this work is so important, because I think it has the power to transform lives.


Chelle Travis (20:54):
It does. And so I often say in technical education, and especially when it’s coupled with skills USA is integrated into that opportunity that the work that we do is life changing. And so I can tell you that there’s not just one story. I there are many stories of not just changing that life of that individual student, but you can literally change the trajectory of not just that lie, but that student’s family and the community and the nation, because that confidence that you instill in them and the opportunities that you give in them, it doesn’t just impact that individual. It impacts an entire family and in the role that I have here and the way I, I see it, it can impact a generation of students across our nation, the work that we do from I love student stories.


Chelle Travis (21:53):
I would love as an instructor. Probably one of the the, the greatest gifts that you get is when a student returns and comes back to you. And with that first paycheck whether it’s that that a new car or a story about the house that they were able to buy, or they bring in their family for the, for the first time and you eat and you get to see that, that your work had somehow just a small, a small part and, and making that person, and that individual become who they are today. I’ve seen the changes in the lives, not just of our secondary students, but also in our post-secondary students that come back to us possibly after having first careers. And, and now they see, they may not have seen technical education as an option for them at the time.


Chelle Travis (22:47):
And then along the way they they come back to us, they see technical education as an opportunity for them, and you get them to to you get, to see them achieve what has been their lifelong dream. And, and just the change in them. And, you know, in going through this program and the leadership skills that they say I have several of those friends are, or former students are now you know, I get to watch their journey on on Facebook or something like that. And I get to see the difference and then get to see them achieve their dreams. And I think that’s so, so important. And, and I think if as an instructor, I know that it is a challenging as a former instructor myself, I cannot imagine what the classroom and the challenges are like, we do work alongside our instructors, but every day I know that it is, it is a challenge for them and I’m, so I’m encouraged by seeing what they are how they are trying to meet their students’ needs.


Chelle Travis (23:57):
I do know that you know, when I would say my instructors go from go from being classroom instructors to integrating skills, you’re saying to their classroom, and now becoming instructors that are skilled, she would say advisors as well. I could see a different, so it can take a a, an instructor that was a good instructor to an instructor. That’s a great instructor with a new renewed passion for for career and technical education and for the work that they do. I don’t, you know, in working with our students for a number of years, I don’t see how you can be in technical education and not just and not just be excited about the work that you do and the difference that you make in your students’ lives. If you just take a step back and, and look at the number of lives you’ve impacted and changed for the better every year.


Sam Demma (24:48):
And I think you mentioned it, you know, you hit it on the nail, impacting that one student life that could put them on a trajectory to impact another thousand. And if every student did something that impacted the lives of others, it’s this huge ripple effect that just goes on forever and ever which is so awesome. I think what you all stand for is amazing. If anyone’s listening right now and wants to bounce some ideas around maybe another national director from another student organization and wants to have a conversation, what would be the best way for them to reach out with you if you’re open to it?


Chelle Travis (25:18):
Oh, absolutely. Well, if you are interested in contacting me if you’ll just go to skillsusa.org you’ll be able to find my contact information. That’s cell phones. They’re also my my, my email. But it just, if, if you want to reach out and learn more if you want to know more about the stories of our champions, if you go to champions.skillsUSA.award there, you can very, you can see success stories of our students and the impact that our work has on students’ lives across the nation. And I think that is what is so exciting is, is just the it, seeing the work that you do have an impact on students’ lives and in our future generation or future workforce.


Sam Demma (26:08):
Nice. Awesome. Shelly, thank you so much for taking some time to do this has been an absolute pleasure chatting with you,


Chelle Travis (26:13):
Sam, thank you for the work that you’re doing. I think it’s a, it’s the right work in, I’m very excited to see where these podcasts late,


Sam Demma (26:21):
Amazing information insights and ideas for this current challenging time. And I hope her story into leadership really inspired you to reflect on, the personal impact you have on the young people in your life. We always have the opportunity to make a huge impact on the lives of everyone around us. And with that being said, if you enjoyed this interview and you enjoy this, please consider leaving a rating and review. It’ll help more educators just like yourself, find these episodes and learn from them. And if you are listening, thinking that you would love to share something on the show as well. Please send us an email at info@samdemma.com so we can get your insights and your ideas on the show as well. Anyways, I will see you on the next episode talk soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Chelle Travis

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 11, 2021 by Association Director Director of Education President Student Leadership 0

Leslie Loewen – Campus Culture Manager at Fresno Unified School District

Leslie Loewen, Campus Culture Director
About Leslie Loewen

Leslie Loewen (@MommaLoew) has been an educator for more than 23 years, serving the students of California’s Central Valley as a teacher, coach, club sponsor, and administrator. She has always been focused on active learning, positive relationship-building, and planting the seeds of knowledge and leadership through student engagement.

As Fresno Unified’s current Campus Culture Manager she strives to engage ALL students in Arts, Activities, and Athletics, through a wide array of opportunities, so that they may connect with an adult champion and learn how to be the best version of themselves. “Every student has an essential purpose, and it is our job to open their eyes to their greatest potential and path to success.”

Connect with Leslie: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

California Association Directors of Activities (CADA)

Fresno Unified School District

Icebreakers & Team Builders to Build Community (August Webinar)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high-performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest on the show is Leslie Loewen, or as her 75,000 students would call her MommaLowe. Leslie is the campus culture manager at the Fresno unified school district. She’s also a wife and a Momma. She loves her job and family is one of the values that is high on her list, which is why it’s no surprise that even her students refer to her as Momma Lowe. She prides herself in building relationships with kids and providing them with opportunities and experiences that can have a significant impact on their life now, and also a future development. I hope you enjoy this amazing conversation with Leslie and I will see you on the other side.


Sam Demma (01:31):
Leslie, welcome to the high-performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Please start by just introducing yourself.


Leslie Loewen (01:38):
Good morning, Sam. It’s awesome to be with you. My name is Leslie Loewen and I am the campus culture manager for Fresno unified school district. This means I’ve been a teacher for 20 plus years and then went into campus culture, which is what we call maybe activities directors at other school sites. She call them campus culture directors because we were more than Reaper chugs and pies in the face. And Julie, from the love belt, you’re too young, but other people know what that means, but we just, we wanna make sure that kids feel a sense of belonging and place and connection to our schools. And we know that that starts with the culture of your campus. And so been doing that now for 15ish of the 20 plus year.


Sam Demma (02:30):
Oh, that’s awesome. I heard someone told me, I think it was a little bird that students sometimes call you momma loew. Is that is a true story?


Leslie Loewen (02:38):
That is my street name. It’s it’s behind me. I don’t know which way to write it. Right. Because some, sometimes the camera’s flip or not. So yeah, you can find me on Instagram and Twitter there. It’s mostly just stuff I retweet about all of our awesome kids in Fresno unified. I’ve got 75,000 kids. That’s it.


Sam Demma (02:56):
That’s it?!


Leslie Loewen (02:57):
I mean, you know, I didn’t birth them all, which was good.


Sam Demma (03:02):
Yeah. Where did the nickname come from?


Leslie Loewen (03:06):
I had a student one time. So every time I would leave the room, which you should never do with children, right? Like that’s the golden rule with never leave the room as a teacher. But I would leave the room cause we, my leadership kids in there and they would sticky bomb my walls and they would put notes and things on there. And one day, one of my students said 2000 kids and counting mama loew the next reality show. And so I giggled cause that’s what I always used to say. They’re my kids. Like you didn’t pick me just like you didn’t pick your biological mother. You’re welcome. And now we’re going to move forward as if your mind, because you are mine. And and so when I got this job, the student was super cute. He crossed it off and put 75,000 kids in counties. So it’s my reality show and I love it. So


Sam Demma (03:57):
Amazing. And so tell me more about your journey and education. Did you know from a young age that you wanted to work with kids specifically in a school setting? Or how did you stumble upon this calling?


Leslie Loewen (04:09):
Well, my parents were both teachers, so the answer was heck now I am not going to be a teacher. My mom taught elementary school and she worked really, really hard and she, she I come from a long line of hand-raisers. So, you know, when there’s something that needs to be done, we’re like, okay, I’ll do it. Okay. I’ll do it. And so she did everything in elementary school. She was the cheer coach when they lost their music teacher, she knew how to play piano. So she, she was a music director. She, you know, my dad was a science teacher in high school. He was a coach. And so I was always on the field with him, with them. January would roll around, he coached baseball. So January would roll around and it was like, okay, dad, we’ll see in a couple of months and you know, we’d have coffee and donuts for all the coaches, all his kids, you know, we have these big camps and that’s just kind of what you did.


Leslie Loewen (05:09):
And I have a degree in dirt now. I know all the dirt was the grand soils and chemistry from Cal poly. I thought I was going to redo baseball fields to make the water drains. So you could play on it faster or, you know, beyond a golf course and make sure that the greens were awesome. And then my sister had her first child and she said, Hey, get your masters and come and take care of drew. And I did. And I hated my masters. So I was like, now what my mom said, why don’t you stop? Just make some extra cash watch drew. And then on the days that you’re not watching drew, just so you know, I taught dance for more than 10 years. And I thought that was, that was different. Turns out it’s, it’s pretty close. You know, you got kids that just want to be the best they can be and find their spark.


Leslie Loewen (06:13):
And I mean, when they do that magical things happen. And so I started sobbing and I thought I could bring my bag of tricks. That’s great. But I’d like to be with these kids more than just today. Like I, I built a relationship today and they’re saying, are you going to be here tomorrow or where, you know, and I did, I didn’t know where I was going to be every day. So my, my mom and dad both said that they saw it. They just didn’t want to push me. I had to see it for myself and turns out I really liked kids. So and I just love connecting with them and showing them their potential and really just kind of teasing that out. Have a little fun.


Sam Demma (07:10):
How do you help us students see that in themselves? What does that look like in the classroom? Cause I think a lot of students, especially at a young age, like high school and middle school, even elementary school they don’t fully have the self-confidence maybe yet at that stage in their life. And I’m sure you’ve had students who started in your classrooms, not that confident and maybe left a whole different person sometimes. And other times you don’t even know until 15 years in the future when they come back and tell you, but how do you think you help students see the potential within themselves and find their spark and chase the things that they love?


Leslie Loewen (07:49):
That’s like, I mean, that’s a great question. I think it comes from listening with everything you have. So you’ve got to be an active listener with your eyes, with your ears, with your body, with, with everything you have. Right. And I didn’t realize that really until you said that. And and I I’m one that kind of tries to connect the dots, right. So I got to be a fifth grade teacher on Friday. Right. So during this whole, you know, COVID stuff, we’re, we’re down teachers and subs and administrators and everything. So even though I worked at the district office, I got to work, I got to be a fifth grade teacher on Friday. You never know what yet. So I go in and I’m talking and I’m laughing and I’m introducing myself and we’re, we’re getting things done. Well, of course we’re behind, already, we’re behind on the list of tasks.


Leslie Loewen (08:44):
Right. And as a sub, I was wanting to get everything done on my list. And so we’re behind. And so I looked at the kids and I said, I need everyone to work diligently right now. And I don’t know if that’s a fifth grade where I don’t know what lexicon that is please. I mean, so I was, and they kind of looked at me and I said, do we know what diligently means? Okay. Let’s think about this. I need you to do what we’re supposed to do in an hour and 30 minutes. And one kid goes, I want, I need to work fast. I said, yes, I need to focus. Yes. I need to not talk. Yes. Okay. All of those things work diligently and I’m talking, just talking to my, my biological kids at home. My, my youngest said the other day, mom, you never talked to us like we were babies.


Leslie Loewen (09:32):
So I think number one, listening with everything active listener, but number two, like treating kids as you want them to be, or as you see them to be like, as they’re grown. I, I spent majority of my teaching time in high school. So when I had my biological children, my two boys I, I wanted to, even as young children, I wanted them to be great high schoolers. I wanted them to be, you know, to talk with adults in a way that was engaging and confident. And so I think so listening and then, you know, talking to kids where you want them to be. And so I, again, I don’t know if diligently as a fifth grade, we’re about that whole class knows the word diligently. I use it several different times. She’s had a lot of fun and they did, they got it done.


Leslie Loewen (10:31):
And they celebrate that life. I would, I would say the third thing is see something, say something applies to things that are dangerous, but also when things are good, I was walking around the classroom and I noticed the two boys in the back that sat in the back and were pretty quiet, always had their tasks done, always had it. I mean, their papers looked really nice. And then they were just quietly working in the back. Right. Maybe they don’t get a lot of attention because they weren’t acting naughty and they weren’t, you know, raising their hand and given all the answers. Well, I just walked back and I said, you know what? I have noticed that every time I walked back here, you’ll have everything done. You’re rock stars. You’re like ninja rock star. So they’re like, you know, and it’s kinda got a little puffed up, you know go see something and say it, you know, tell them when they’re, when you’re in their presence. So I don’t have all the answers. And I think that’s kind of how, how I’ve tried to do my best.


Sam Demma (11:38):
Yeah. I love that. Those are all things that I think can apply even outside classrooms with every day, human beings, friends, family members, right. Treat people the way, you know, they can be hold them to a higher standards. Right. That’s kind what that comes down to. And you know, if they’re doing something well, tell them people sometimes just need a little reassurance. And I think even, especially right now, teachers need some reassurance that the impact they’re having is being felt and being realized. I, I would guess that not only are you responsible for the 75,000 students, but some kids, but you’re probably also responsible for some teachers.


Leslie Loewen (12:16):
We’ve got 10,000 adults that we have fun with. So that is good. You know, I wrote down, I wrote down my phone phone number, you know, for the teachers to call me even, you know, back in the day, my home phone number before we had cell phones, but wrote my phone number down and I said, just call me. And so the teacher actually did call me and say, Hey, did you get to that paper? I said, I am so sorry. I didn’t get to that paper. Like I came in and I said, I did my bucket. Like my, my little bucket that I got to have. And I said, but first let me just tell you, you have great kids. They were amazing. They welcomed me into the room and I could tell over the phone I’m listening. It was the whole south that her countenance changed at first.


Leslie Loewen (13:02):
She was worried that, that she didn’t get everything on her list maybe. Right. I don’t know why she was out. I don’t, you know, I don’t know any of the details, but I know that there was some anxiety. She kind of came in hard, you know, where’s this paper. And I said, you know, Hey, I’m was doing the best we could, but you know, who helped me? I said, these two help me in these two, got their work done. And this one was really awesome. And so I got to share with, with her who made my time, they’re really fun. And and then we have a team back here at my office that just looks to do and looks to stand in the gap. So our office manager, for lack of a better term she, she bosses us all, which is awesome.


Leslie Loewen (13:58):
We need it. She said, Hey, you’re there. Look and see who needs a backpack look and see who needs a backpack and school supplies look and see who needs anything. And so I kinda walked, you know, as I walked around, I looked, you didn’t have one hanging or maybe the one that was hanging was a little scroungy. And so I suddenly up two or three backpacks that we need, but they didn’t have headsets, all of them. And again, I don’t know why, and they’re supposed to, but I’m not whatever. And so today I’m excited. She was put on my calendar, we’re going over and we’re bringing in headsets and backpacks and, and she said, you know, and I’m going to wait for you. I thought you might want to go. Yeah. I want to go see our kids, you know, and take care of them and just say, thanks for my fun day on Friday.


Leslie Loewen (14:57):
And here’s this, we’re going to give it to your teacher. And they’re not, I mean, they’re good backpacks, right? They’re like chance for backpacks, they’re turtle headsets. So, you know, like they’re the gamer headset, but I mean, I made sure now they are turquoise, but those are the only ones that he got, but, you know, they’re good stuff for kids. And, and I think seeing where you can plug in and just do whatever you can, it doesn’t, they keep me grounded here on like, you’re always just looking. You’re always looking for ways that we can take care of our kids and maybe providing them an opportunity for something new.


Sam Demma (15:38):
I love that. It sounds like you also intentionally focus on the positive side of things, always because, you know, when you were explaining to me about your time in the classroom with the fifth graders, every example you gave me was a positive one. You know, you said there was two kids in the back who did really well. It was kids who helped me, kids who yelled out, you have to work fast, you have to work diligently well in every classroom. There might also be someone who’s a little more difficult to work with, or a student who interrupts or a, and none of those things are inherently bad, but you made a point of not mentioning any of them. And I’m curious to know if you have a belief as an educator in person to try and focus on the positive things in life and how you pass that along to other teachers and kids.


Leslie Loewen (16:21):
Well I did have one that was trying to act out and be naughty. She was flinging her hair bands and a little colored hair bands. So the first one, you know, flung and the kids are giggling and everything. I just picked it up and I just put on my wrist, like girls do that put on my wrist. Right. That’s why your hair tie goes. And I didn’t say anything. And I just said, Hey, let’s, you know, we’re back to work. Are you almost done five minutes left? You know? Cause if I focus on that, not focusing on the other 20 plus kids, I don’t even know. I didn’t, I didn’t count them. There were a lot on the point, right on the other kids that are doing the right thing. If I get upset about that, I mean, I don’t know why I, this is my first day it’s in the first point. If I focus on that, then I don’t know what happens. So I just grabbed it, put on my wrist a couple minutes later, I flicked another one at stuck on the ceiling. I grabbed a yard stick, I flung it off and I grabbed it like snagged it, you know, they’re not my wrists. Look back now. I got to, so I walked by a little later and, and she just happens to fling another one. I snag it out of the air. Like I, you know,


Leslie Loewen (17:45):
I put it on my wrist and you know, there’s, there’s this there’s that, but I’m still focused on, Hey, we got two minutes left or a member here’s the change and recess is coming. And you know, I’m just it’s. And one of the, one of the students sitting in the middle looks to me and says, how tall are you? 5, 6, 5, 7. I don’t know, depends on if I’m wearing Chacha heels, I get goals and goes, you look like a basketball player. And I’m like, thanks, dude. I’m going to take that as a compliment. I’m like, all right. So, I mean, I think that was his way of reaffirming in me that I didn’t have that that was going to happen. Right. I could have written a detention slip, you know? But I do choose because again, there’s one and if I go back or when I go back you know, could I have a conversation with that student probably, but it’s going to be more if I bring back, right. I ended up walking out with those all on my wrist because I pay attention because it wasn’t important that wasn’t important. And so, you know, when I take those back and I put him in and talk him in, in her desk for her and, you know, I don’t know. I think that says more then any words could.


Sam Demma (19:24):
Yeah, I totally agree. I love it. I just wanted to ask you about that because it’s a, I think it’s an important thing, not only for educators, but for everyday people, you know, you can focus on negative things and it’ll bleed into the rest of your life, or you can try and see the good in other people in another situations and it’ll bleed into your life as well. And you’ll have a great one. And I think that goes back to how you bring the most out of kids, right? You know, maybe the next conversation you have is one where you have a heart to heart where it’s explained to this young person, I see you up here. Like, I see you doing this. I see you doing that. You know yes, you have good flicking skills, but, you know, save that energy for other tasks. It could be something that changes that young person’s life or perspective forever as opposed to a detention slip, like you were saying when you were first starting in teaching knowing what you know now, if you could like transport back in time to that first year, Leslie, and give yourself some advice, like, what would you say, or what would you share with your younger self?


Leslie Loewen (20:39):
I don’t know that I would do anything different. So not that I was perfect, but the things that were around me, the people that were around me and maybe, I guess what I would say to new administrators who were helping their new teachers, surround your new teachers with people who I can show them the way can be their mentor. They’re they’re not going to be perfect either, but you know, my, my first year I did everything I just wanted to be and do. And so I just said yes to everything I, I taught I have to even count them up five different classes. I was on a cart for two classes. I took on learning the AP chem curriculum. I coached the dance team. I coached the stomp team. I had ski and snowboard club. I was assistant activities.


Leslie Loewen (21:47):
I had an orange chair in my room that I took naps in because I, I was 30 minutes from home, newly married. And my husband did say like, I want you at home when you’re home. So you can’t bring homework home. My parents were both teachers. I mentioned that, right? Like they brought homework home. They brought grading home. They brought this home and my husband had grew up that way. And he said, when you’re home, I need you home. So you gotta figure out your work life to, to not bring that homework home. So, you know, when you’re coaching, you, you realize like you can’t have, I was teaching science. I can’t, you have to grade in the class, you have to grade in the moment. You can’t just save it all for later. Cause there isn’t a later, because after school there’s coaching and after coaching there’s clubs and after clubs, there’s go home, make dinner, be a wife and figure that whole thing out.


Leslie Loewen (22:46):
Right? Like, so there’s not time later. So I, I started paring down the assignments. Like I never wanted to give busy work. I always wanted to teach to mastery. And if the students could demonstrate that they understood, like I’m doing my job, I’m teaching teach, learn, you know, learn, get excited. So how do you grade that? Well, I mean, it’s, it’s a challenge, but I did a lot of checking for understanding before that was even a pool term. Right. Like I, I just checked in with my kids a lot. I had them present to me. I’d have them teach to me, teach to me this or reteach this. Like I would, that was the worst unit. Like, or that was the worst lecture I’ve ever given. You, you come up here and teach that like, you can do a better than me and then I’d go and I’d sit in their desk.


Leslie Loewen (23:39):
And I take a guy to take notes on this, like, and it would empower the kids that they were a part of the, and then they got to demonstrate to me that they understood. And when they did then yeah, we do quizzes and we do things. And if it goes, can I take that again? Right? Sure. I mean, it’s not, I get two overs. I put out a bad email with, you know, a grammar mistake will not usually cause I am the grammar police. I did. I did that. I, some kids when we worked on our grammar assignments. So but like if I have some mistakes in there, if I do a wrong date or I mean, who, who fails me and sends it back and says, Nope, I’m not coming to your meeting. That was the worst, you know, I’ve ever seen in my life.


Leslie Loewen (24:27):
Like, it doesn’t happen like that. So why are we doing that to kids? So sure. You can take that again. What parts are you struggling with? Let me help you figure this out. Let’s figure it out together. You know, did your neighbor have, you know, get it right. Maybe they can teach you if you didn’t learn it. For me, I’m still giving grades. Like I still like, and doing homework is important. Like building that muscle, like I still, but I tell the kids why that’s important because building that muscle is important and right. You, you, I can’t coach you in the game. You’re not listening. That’s what I got from my dad, the coach, right? I can’t teach you something in the game. You’re not learning in the game. You’re executing. So I can’t teach you on the test. You have to practice. I know it before you go in.


Leslie Loewen (25:17):
And that’s where those pre tests, those, that homework, if you don’t ever do your homework, I don’t know where you are. I can’t help you. And so I think taking that tactic for me as a newer teacher and trying to figure out ways to make meaningful lessons that I, that I only, I only give you what I really want you to do. There’s not busy work in my classes. And even in leadership, right? Like I reminded students that we gotta do the standards in the stuff like we have stuff to do. I know we got stuff to do. We got rallies to put on and we’ve got this, but you’re learning communication when we’re, when we’re working on the rally, you’re, you’re learning interpersonal skills. When we’re, we’re hashing these ideas out, you’re learning how to present and, and do governance when we’re asking our school for their opinions. And when you go on the bulletin, I want you to know that you’re, you’re doing all those, you’re learning leadership skills in the stuff. One of the things that, that I started saying to the students is like teamwork happens when real work happens. A lot of people want to do teamwork or team building. I’m doing a whole thing today, Kat on team building. But I’m going to tell them to teamwork happens when real work happens, do something real. And you’ll see how your team executes.


Leslie Loewen (26:45):
You can work on yourself and you can work all your tools and DQ, wind up all your resources. But the team work happens when you’re actually doing work as a team. And you figure out if you’re an effective team or if you’re a hot mess pretty quickly. And then you go back and regroup. Again, I think that comes back from my, from of the coaching, right? Like after the game you sit down and you talk, can you, okay, let’s talk about this. It’s like, yeah, clearly we weren’t doing a good job, you know, with pitching or with our fielding or we, you know, like what can we do? How can we get better? You know, where was the, and so even after like those big events in leadership, let’s okay, we’re coming back to work. We’re going to have an exhausting feedback session where we just got to celebrate the wins because we’re always hard, hardest on ourselves. Go celebrate the wins, but then we’ve got to go, okay. Like what would be the small things that we could do that would make a big impact later? Yeah.


Sam Demma (27:51):
All right. I love that. That’s so awesome. I hope the name of your talk is the teamwork happens when you do real work. That’s like a, some leg drop line right there. This is awesome. You’ve raised so many good points. Thank you so much, Leslie, for coming on the show and spending half, half an hour of your day sharing some of your experiences, your own principles and values as a educator. If someone is listening to this right now and has been inspired by the conversation, what would be the most efficient way for them to get a hold of you? If they want to ask a question or send you some love?


Leslie Loewen (28:27):
Well, you can, you can tag me on Instagram at Twitter @MommaLoew it’s spelled weird cause I’m a littleweird. But also they can send me an email to my work account. This is, this is work and it’s first name dot last name, Leslie.lowen@fresnounified.org. Just shoot me an email and say, Hey, you know, HELP, and I’ll help where I can.


Sam Demma (29:03):
Cool. Awesome, Leslie again, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure. Enjoy the rest of your day and we’ll talk soon and there you have it. Another amazing guest and amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you want to meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www dot high-performing educator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not feel your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Leslie

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 10, 2021 by Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Pat Riddlesprigger – Athletic Manager at the Fresno Unified School District

Pat Riddlesprigger, Athletic Manager at the Fresno Unified School District
About Pat Riddlesprigger

Pat Riddlesprigger (@PRiddlesprigger) was born and raised in Fresno, California. The youngest of 2 boys, he is a product of the Central Valley. Pat has spent the majority of his personal and professional life attending or employed by Fresno Unified, the third-largest school district in California.

After graduating from Hoover High School in 1988, Pat accepted a full athletic scholarship to California State University, Fresno to play basketball. Appreciating the opportunity to play for his hometown team, he took complete advantage of the pursuit of higher education and walked away with BS in Business Administration. He would continue his education further- receiving his teaching credential and administrative credential through CSU Fresno and his Master’s in Educational Technology through Fresno Pacific University.

Over 2 decades, Pat has been in the educational profession as a teacher, department chair, coach, and athletic director. As the athletic director, he served as league president, league representative and board of managers representative. Each stop along the way has prepared him for his current position as the Athletic Manager for Fresno Unified School District within the Student Engagement Department. As the Athletic Manager, as well as, a member of the Student Engagement Team, Pat provides support to teachers/coaches, site administration, and the Fresno Unified community to ensure that our students engage in the arts, activities, and athletics.

Pat believes in order to be successful in life, you must possess the following characteristics:

Desire: oneself having a strong longing for a certain action;
Dedication: oneself committed to a certain course of action;
Determination: oneself focused on that action;
Sacrifice: oneself willing to give up something for the sake of that action.

He has modelled and demonstrated these characteristics throughout his lifetime. Pat is married to his high school sweetheart Cathy and has 3 daughters- Mariah, Makayla, and Maya and three grandchildren- Zaveah, Liam, and Maverick.

Connect with Pat: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

California CBEST test

Fresno Unified School District

Small, Consistent Actions TEDx Talk

Dion Sanders (VIDEO: Purpose for Practice)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high-performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Pat Riddlesprigger. Pat Riddlesprigger is the athletic manager of the Fresno unified school district. He also runs the goals-2-team athletics department, and what you will very quickly notice in today’s interview is that Pat uses sport as a way to transform young people’s lives.


Sam Demma (01:07):
Being an athlete growing up, he was a former Fresno State basketball player himself, Pat knows what it means to pursue an athletic dream, but he also knows how important it is to ensure that these students, whether they become professional athletes or not become holistic global citizens – good-hearted human beings. And you will see in Pat’s perspectives in his ideas and his personal experiences and insights that he shares in today’s interview, that he holds that the center of all he does. I hope you enjoy this amazing conversation with pat and I will see you on the other side.


Sam Demma (01:46):
Pat, welcome to the high-performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself to the audience?


Pat Riddlesprigger (01:56):
Hey, good afternoon, everyone. My name is Pat Riddlesprigger. I am the athletic manager here in Fresno unified. I’ve been in education for approximately 20 plus years in some form or capacity, starting from coaching to teaching, to athletic directed to athletic administration. So it’s been a journey has been, has been fun and I think I’ve learned quite a bit along with that, that role.


Sam Demma (02:23):
It’s amazing. And what got you into athletics? The position of being an athletic director. Were you always the athletic director, did you start out as a teacher? Tell me more about your journey in education.


Pat Riddlesprigger (02:35):
Yeah. Yeah, it’s funny because you know, sports have always been a huge portion of my life. I started off playing in high school was fortunate enough to earn the scholarship here at the local college Fresno state played basketball there. And then I continued on, so, so, you know, I always knew I wanted to have something to do with athletics. Just didn’t know what it was. When I got my degree, got my major moves, still searching, trying to find out exactly where, what I wanted to do. So, you know, you, you always go back and seeking that advice. So, you know, I knock on my mom’s door and they say, you know what? I just don’t know exactly what I want to do just yet. And they know she kind of pushed me to go back and to take the California CBEST test.


Pat Riddlesprigger (03:27):
And I went back and I took it. And, and then at that moment, I, I started my journey of actually getting my teaching credential and the world of education. So it was, it was an interesting, I guess it was about a three-year window when I was doing all of this still working in my previous job, still doing and still doing my student teaching here seeing if I like this, even if I didn’t like it. And it was, it was interesting. It was it was, it was a lot but I, think I, truly made the right decision to become a teacher. And then once I started teaching, I always knew I enjoyed the game and the one that did the coach and my first teaching job, I also got a coaching position with it. And next thing I know I started one day at one high school.


Pat Riddlesprigger (04:18):
My third day, I was at a new high school and I was the head coach of a program. And then I just kept on parlaying from that. I went from coaching basketball to actually now what was it about eight years later becoming the athletic director stayed in that position at that particular site for about six, seven years. And then then this position opened up. So, you know, along the way you kept on trying to further my own education putting in a little bit more keys on my key ring so I can open up some doors. And when the time came available and lo and behold, the right door opened up and I had the right key. So I was able to get this position as athletic manager.


Sam Demma (05:03):
It’s funny when you mentioned your own experience as a basketball player, you know, back in high school and college, I noticed that there it is, again, I noticed a big smile on your face. Tell me, bring me back there for a second. What did sports mean to you growing up and tell me the pivotal role play in your development?


Pat Riddlesprigger (05:20):
You know sports was always a way that you can go out there and you can let those and relax and play and, and, and do something that you’re passionate about. I mean, it was something I was introduced to with the boys and girls club a long time ago stayed with me. I found out that I was pretty good at it. I was fortunate enough, like I said, to earn a scholarship. And it brings back some of the fondest memories. You know, sometimes I may not even remember my fourth grade teach it, but I do remember my, my sixth grade coach who was my teacher. So, so those things are the things that I knew, what brought a smile to my face and a smile to my heart. So I wanted to actually try to do that. And later on in my life, I just didn’t know exactly when and how I was going to do it until you have that, that conversation with your parents. But it was it’s, it’s the best time. I mean, high school athletics. I mean, it’s a true, true time when kids can go out there and have fun. Ms. Probably the last time that they will chop probably play. Cause there’s only a select few that get opportunity to continue on. It’s only get to go out there and enjoy and try and try something new. I mean, sports are a really life-changing and they can provide you a lot of discipline that you, you apply at the Roger your entire life.


Sam Demma (06:43):
I couldn’t agree more. I was actually a soccer player growing up and my coach has actually didn’t even want me to play for my high school. Cause I thought I might get injured or hurt. But yeah, sports so pivotal in my own journey. You, you mentioned remembering your, your grade six teacher who is also your coach. Why do you think you remembered him aside from of course, because you love basketball and he enabled you to play. But why do you think you stuck out in your mind? Do you think that coaching allows you to build deeper relationships with students or


Pat Riddlesprigger (07:14):
I think it’s that connection without a doubt. I think that connection that you established at an early age besides a classroom, I mean, we establish a relationship inside the classroom but I think it was outside the classroom where he, I got to meet him on a different level. He got to meet me on a different level. We both share something in common that we liked. We both enjoy the process as far as this is where you were when I first met you. This is where I, I, I see you when that halfway during the season, this is where I see you at the end of the season. And I think that was the connection that we we had. And it was just one of those things that just, you know, it was, it was fun. And I think that that was each one of my coaches along the way, not to mention that also he was probably the first male teacher that I had that, that I had actually up until that point.


Pat Riddlesprigger (08:08):
So, so keep moving forward. I mean, coaches and it’s kind of ironic coaches made the connection I met with all my coaches. Actually, I think was, were greater than, than the teachers that I had at certain times. I remember a lot of my teachers, but majority of all my coaches, cause we spend, I mean the classroom, you may, if you’re not on the black schedule, you may spend maybe 54 minutes in the class average class time. But in practice you may spend two hours to three hours during that time. So I think you’re going to build a stronger connection in that time.


Sam Demma (08:45):
I couldn’t agree more. And you also mentioned you know, when you were growing up and playing sports, you know, your teacher had a big impact on you, are teachers and coaches, sorry, you coach had a big impact on you. Are there coaches that you still stay in touch with to this day?


Pat Riddlesprigger (09:02):
You know what I have several my former high school coaches, I still speak to ’em. We still reach out, still seek advice. I’m fortunate enough to actually play and play in the same school district. And now work in the same school districts and passing out. I will see him are a hair. Mar if I have a question I can always know I can reach out to him. But it’s just one of those things. I mean, I think that is the, the, the human connection. I may not be able to come back and talk about the quadratic equation, but I can come back and talk about the time that, you know, I didn’t hustle. And he had to remind me what hustling meant, but that was one of those things. I mean, it’s just a different form of connection and it, it is always been an add on that is one thing about athletics, right? There is instinct correction still. If we had that connection, if I don’t do something right, that coach can sit there, take a time out, correct. That behavior and correct that action. And then we can put it in, put it in place. Okay. Yeah, you got it. Or no, you didn’t and we can keep on doing it, but it’s, it’s just an unbelievable feeling that and be connected with a coach or a teacher. And that inspires you to be much more than what you’re capable of being at that time.


Sam Demma (10:13):
I agree. It’s it’s unlike any other relationship you build, you like look out to that person, not only for athletic advice, but sometimes you feel so comfortable. You ask them about personal things, right. Forget coach, you know, forget coach Carter, you got coach riddles, Springer. That’s awesome. So, okay. So you’re you knew from a young age that you wanted to coach, or was that something that as you progress through your journey, as a teacher, people started tapping you on the shoulder and saying, you know, you should start coaching basketball.


Pat Riddlesprigger (10:46):
You know what? I, I didn’t know. I knew I enjoyed athletics. I know I enjoy playing sports no matter what it was. Basketball was just the one that I landed on. I enjoy playing all sports at an early age, try soccer. Wasn’t as good you know, as you do that one early on the foot foot coordination and the head that or the foot, and then that head coordination wasn’t quite there yet. But I got started in there, played basketball, played a little bit of football, but basketball is what I landed on. Tried baseball, but football and did track. Once again, basketball was the one I landed on. And then during that whole entire time, I, I enjoyed it. I enjoyed it. I enjoyed, I enjoyed every part of it. The practices, the games just every part of it. But it did not necessarily know I wanted to be a coach.


Pat Riddlesprigger (11:37):
I knew I wanted to stay around athletics. I just didn’t know in what capacity. And I just once I finished playing college ball still had an opportunity to stay around it and, and coach some, some kids I started that actually got actually I got hooked on coaching. When I was in, in high school. Our high school coach used to have a a developmental league for all our neighborhood kids. And, you know, back then you get to teach them the drills, walk them through. We had the little ramps and they would, they would come out there and play. God kinda kinda got the field bill of it, then left it for awhile. Then when I was finished, I contacted my high school coach and asked, Hey, do you need some help? I still want to, I still enjoy the game. So want to be around it. And next thing you know, coach coached high school ball, coached a new ball. It’s, it’s been a blast.


Sam Demma (12:38):
How do you think we know you’re good. How do you think we make connections with kids? So that they feel like it’s a safe enough space to share things that they might want to talk to you about not only as coaches, but also as educators.


Pat Riddlesprigger (12:51):
You know what I think that’s the most important part. I always use that. I had a phrase. If you can’t connect you, can’t correct. If you can not can make a connection with a kid, I can care less. I can care less. What, what subject or what sports you’re trying to teach them. They’re not going to sit there and get it. So you have the, you have to do your best to, to get, get to know that individual, not only on a professional, but on a personal level, find out what they like to do short conversations and build that trust between the two. And then I think, I think at that point there’ll be willing to do anything or listen to something that you have to say or whether it’s a player, whether it’s a quadratic equation. I mean, you have to be able to connect with kids. I think kids learn from people that they enjoy being around. So if they don’t enjoy being around or don’t enjoy your conversation or don’t enjoy you, they’re not gonna, they’re not gonna sit there and learn or take that information in the way it could be taken in.


Sam Demma (13:55):
And how did coaches and teachers growing up create that safe space for you? Like if you had to pinpoint a couple of things you think past coaches did, or even mentors that you had what do you think they did that made that space safe for you to share and open up and talk in conversation?


Pat Riddlesprigger (14:10):
They took time. I think time is always one of those things you can never get back. And I think by them giving up their time by them opening up their door say during the lunch, Hey coach, I’m having a such and such a problem. And given their ear just to listen time listening and making themselves available. I think those are all key Greenies that, that actually build that trust and build that relationship. That, that connection that can be a life-changing. I was extremely enough to have a lot, a lot of coaches and a lot of teachers in my life that, that did everything. I mean, they, they gave their time, they gave their, their attention. They gave their advice and, and it kind of worked out pretty well for my stuff. So i’m extremely blessed in that part.


Sam Demma (15:11):
And right now specifically is one of those maybe not specifically right now, but over the past two years has been one of those moments in history where a lot of student athletes have been disappointed. I’m not sure what to do with their life because they attached her whole self worth to this game of soccer or to this game of basketball and football. I’ve remembered myself, you know, growing up. It was, so it was so clear that that was my entire life, that my email address was soccer, Sam 99, you know, at hotmail.com. And you probably see this with a bunch of athletes. You know, how do you kid walks into your dressing room and says, coach, what are we doing? We can’t even play right now. We can’t even practice is everything we’ve done a waste. How do you, how do you navigate that conversation these days?


Pat Riddlesprigger (16:02):
This is a very loaded, tough question. How do you, it just depends on, I guess it depends on the kid or the student that’s coming in. I mean, once again, I said, get open and having the open door policy and then listening, I think, by listening to their frustrations, cause I know how I feel and now I will be frustrated if I was in a position, but at least giving them the time and the ear that allow them to vent and have that conversation. And then just ask some probing questions along the way. So I don’t know. I mean, I understand that stuff. So what are we doing in order? Cause we’re going to come out of this eventually. What are we doing in order to when we come out of it, what are you doing? Or what are we doing in order to get better?


Pat Riddlesprigger (16:44):
We not, we may not be able to play games right now, but we can improve our game in order to play. And just keep on talking. I mean, I think we just, at this point in time in situations like this it gives you ample opportunity once again, to make that connection with the kids. I mean, it may not be in person. It may be on a situation like this where it’s zoom and we just have a, you know what, let’s come to a meeting and let’s just have a conversation. Let’s talk a check-in how, how are you guys doing? How are you doing? How can we, how can I help support you at this time? Is it something that can help with you when your, your family is as something that I can help with you? Pers, are there some other battles?


Pat Riddlesprigger (17:31):
I think it’s just, I mean, every obstacle gives you an opportunity to work on something else. I think you can’t use it as a roadblock. You just use it as a speed bump and you just find a way to make a way out of nothing. I don’t know if there’s a clear, cut answer. I don’t know if there’s and I’ve thought about this quite often. I don’t know if there’s a I know there’s not a handbook. Cause if there was, I think everybody would be having the handbook and going to that specific plan on the handbook they get over this. I think you just have to feel your way out. No, no, your kids are no, your students had that conversation with them. Let them know that you are here as a resource a friend a person that they can count on and then go from there. I think that would go a long way with them.


Sam Demma (18:26):
I think you’re right. And the reason I ask the question is because there might be some educators or guidance counselors who don’t have an athletic background. So can’t really relate to the situation, but have kids walking into the room saying I’m an athlete. It’s my whole life. I was going to go pro I was going to go D one, you know what? Now? And those teachers don’t really know what to say. You know? It is a tough situation. I saw a really awesome motivational little clip on social media from Deon Sanders. I don’t know. Maybe, maybe you saw it. It came out recently and he was saying, you gotta have a purpose for practice. You know, I showed up every day and he said, my purpose was to be the best and that drove me. Right. And I think something that’s so important is okay, we can’t play as a team right now, but what’s, what’s your purpose for training? Well, cause I want to get better. Well then how can we keep doing that? And like you said, kinda asking problem questions and going down that path with the, with the athlete and hearing them out and their frustrations and seeing where you can help. I think it’s so important to listen.


Pat Riddlesprigger (19:25):
And I th I, I think a lot of individuals want to want to want to play one, to go to division one, but then again, are we putting the work into it? So, so a kid like that who says basketball is their life or football or soccer, whatever the sport may be is a life. Okay, what are we doing then if this is your life, and you want to pursue this at a professional level, what are we doing right now in order to recycle later on? I mean, this may be a little roadblock you’re eventually going to continue. You’ve mentioned going to get opportunity to play. You’re going to get the opportunity to do all that, but what are we doing to, to improve ourselves? Not only physically, but mentally. I mean, a lot of individuals are gifted physically. I think the ones that separate themselves from one another, as the ones that are from here on a so-so, therefore you have to take care of your body. You have to take care of your mind and your spirit to make sure everything’s all aligned. And I think you should be all right.


Sam Demma (20:26):
No, you’re is a great point. It’s so true. It’s so true. And it doesn’t only apply to athletic dreams, applies to everything you want to do in life. Whether you’re a kid who plays a sport or an educator who wants to move up from being coached to athletic director, you have to start with the angle in mind and kind of reverse engineer that thing back and then embrace reality. And the reality could be, you’re not doing, or you’re not doing what you need to, or the reality is you’re doing it, but maybe you could do more, right?


Pat Riddlesprigger (20:53):
Yeah. Everybody can get 1% better each day.


Sam Demma (20:56):
I call it a small, consistent actions.


Pat Riddlesprigger (21:01):
That’s awesome. I like that small, consistent action. I’m going to, to hold on one second. I have to write that one down.


Sam Demma (21:06):
I’ll send you some resources after I’ll send you some resources after this. I it’s actually a TEDx talk. Yeah, we’ll talk after, and I have some things I wanna share with you, but yeah, this has been a great conversation. I know educators are listening and hopefully they’re bridging the gap between coaching and how they can use some coaching ideas with their students. You mentioned correction, I think is really interesting. It seems like athletes are sometimes on the field, more open to correction and they are when they’re in the classroom or, or when they’re in other areas of their life. How do you effectively, in your opinion, as a coach, correct somebody without embarrassing them? You know what I mean?


Pat Riddlesprigger (21:46):
I think once again, we talk about that connection. So if I have a connection with a student, if we can see eye to eye, I don’t think anything that I say will embarrass them because we can sit here and we can talk about, okay, you did this particular thing wrong. So how can we fix this to move forward? They, tint is never to embarrass to any kid or any student whatsoever is they, they tend to, is to make sure that you’ve got the proper steps. Even if you’re learning once again, a math equation, learning the proper steps in order to get to the end result. So what can we do to make sure we, we, we get there what we want get to the end, like we should. And that’s just having that conversation. I mean, once again, it’s not saying, oh, stop, you did it wrong.


Pat Riddlesprigger (22:36):
It’s Hey, what can we do better? Or where did we miss and have them do the, self-reflection have them sit there and think about it. Okay. Yeah, this is what I did wrong. Okay. So how can we improve it? Or how can we get better? And I think it’s, it falls back on the onus, putting it back on the kid, give them a question. Okay. What did you notice? Was that correct? Or could you have done this better? Have them sit there and think about it, do some self reflection and then point them in a direction or guide them in the direction. Let me put it that way. That could improve the work that they’re putting up.


Sam Demma (23:12):
I love that idea of just asking questions instead of pointing out things, right? Yes. That’s such a hard thing to remember when you’re in an emotional situation and you’re amped up, but I think it’s so important because it, it almost helps the student, even if it’s not a sporting situation, clarify their own thinking. Right. by asking them all these different questions ah, I like it. I’m not thinking to myself, I can ask other people more important questions or impactful questions.


Pat Riddlesprigger (23:45):
I think, I think we can always get the answers in that I remember in the class at in the classroom, always sitting here saying, why should I give the answers when I think that the way to the actual answer is in questioning the kid? And how did you get there if you have someone? I mean, I’m not going to give you the answer. The answer is there. So, but how do we get to get into the answer? Is can I ask you a more in depth question to make you make a pivot in order to get to the, the answer you need to, and I, and just stay with them on that subject. I mean, we’ll pivot, we’ll pivot as much as we possibly be used in the basketball analogy, we’ll make as many pivots as we need to in order to get to the, to the answer. But I’m not, I, I tried not to provide an answer. I tried to provide a question that would actually lead to the answer


Sam Demma (24:37):
As long as you don’t pivot it for more than 24 seconds. Right. Exactly. That’s amazing. That’s awesome. Awesome. Well, pat, this has been a great conversation about questions, coaching life teaching. I thank you so much for spending some time on the podcast and sharing some of your own philosophies and ideas. If another educator is in their first year of education, it feels a little bit lost. I’m going to ask you a tough question to wrap up here.


Pat Riddlesprigger (25:06):
I think these are all kind of tough, haha.


Sam Demma (25:09):
If you could kinda take your, you know, you think, I think you said 20 plus years of experience in teaching, kind of bundle it up and then, you know, travel back in time and walk into the first classroom you ever taught in and kind of hand this bundle of wisdom to your younger self, knowing what you know now, what would the piece of advice be that you’d hand to your younger self?


Pat Riddlesprigger (25:30):
You know what I’m be okay with with learning along the way with your students? Don’t be, don’t think that you have to know everything right then, and there be a constant learner girl, as they grow. There’s a lot of things I was telling myself use your resources of mentor teachers. They’re more often lean on support ask as many questions of your kids that you possibly can get to know them. I mean, it’s, it’s so much in such a godly. I mean, there’s a lot that you learned in this world of education. I don’t know if you can wrap it up in just one little complete sentence, but I think the biggest thing is be a constant learner lean on on the support that you, that you you have learned to walk alongside your students not in front of them.


Pat Riddlesprigger (26:38):
To me, this is a position where we’re servant servant leadership, where we’re actually there, they sit there and help these kids become productive citizens. So and don’t be afraid to fail at the end of the day. I mean, I think it’s, it’s one of those things that every, every day, a new lesson that you’re trying to teach us a new lesson, that you’re also learning. There’s going to be some of those hit and miss miss lessons take the good as well as the bad and just try to build off of it, of that.


Sam Demma (27:12):
Awesome. And if another educator is listening and love, the conversation wants to reach out, maybe ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?


Pat Riddlesprigger (27:23):
My first name pat, then I put the period in between pat and my last name Riddlesprigger. Pat.Riddlesprigger@fresnounified.org. Hopefully you can see my name on there cause it’s long. Okay, good.


Sam Demma (27:38):
Yeah. There’ll be able to see that. Also put the email in the show notes of the podcast. Pat again, thank you so much. This has been a great conversation. Really appreciate you making the time. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.


Pat Riddlesprigger (27:50):
Yes, sir.


Sam Demma (27:52):
And there you have it, another amazing guest and amazing interview on the high-performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you want to meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not feel your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Pat

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 8, 2021 by Athletic Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Merle Gonsalvez – TCDSB Teacher and Dancer

Merle Gonsalvez - TCDSB Teacher and Dancer
About Merle Gonsalvez

Merle(@MamaGLeadership) has been teaching with the Toronto Catholic District School Board for 16 years and in the dance studio for 25 years.  She has taught kindergarten to grade 8.

Merle is very active in the TCDSB elementary leadership program. She is always looking to bring new skills to the classroom by taking courses, such as Dr. Bradley Nelson’s Emotion Code and Jim Kwik’s Superbrain.

Connect with Merle: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

E-CSLIT – Elementary Catholic Student Leadership Impact Team

Dr. Bradley Nelson’s Emotion Code

Jim Kwik’s Superbrain

Pixton Software

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Merle Gonsalvez. I met her over a year ago at a conference called the E-CSLIT the elementary Catholic student leadership impact team. It’s a group of elementary students from grade six, seven and eight from all across the Toronto Catholic district school board who meet once a month to network, share ideas, work on their leadership skills and learn about topics that will impact their fellow students. And of course, have fun. Now, she is someone who is very involved in all of the extracurricular activities in her board, and she has super high energy. I noticed it from the first time I met her and I’m sure you’ll feel it again through her ideas and insights that she shares today in this interview. You don’t really know this because it’s only audio that you’re listening to, but on the video, Merle showed up with this crazy hairdo, which we’ll talk about as well in today’s episode. She’s also a dancer and a super awesome human being. I really enjoyed our conversation and I think you will too. Without further ado, here’s the interview with Merle. I’ll see you on the other side. Merle, thank you so much for coming on the high performing educator podcast. You look great. I wish the audience can see your crazy hair day. Can you share with the audience, you know, who you are, why you got into the work you do with young people today?


Merle Gonsalvez (01:28):
Yeah, for sure. So thank you for having me. My name is Merle Gonsalvez. I am a Ontario certified teacher and I have been teaching for 16 years with a few mat leaves in between that. And why do I do it? I do it because I think at the ripe age of 16, when I started teaching dance, I discovered that I got more out of teaching than I did out of performing. So I love to see a child pick up a skill or say, or, you know, when they say I really, I can’t do it. And then they learn the step and they’d be like, oh, I can do it. Like, that was just heartwarming for me. So that was just my passion since a young age.


Sam Demma (02:15):
That’s amazing. And it seems like it’s carrying you because, you know, we had a quick conversation before the podcast started recording and you were laughing and you have some great ideas to share about making young people feel appreciated and valued during these crazy times. What, what motivates you to keep going though when things get tough? Cause I’m sure there are moments where you to feel burnt out from the work you’re doing. How do you just motivate yourself to keep moving forward?


Merle Gonsalvez (02:44):
Yeah, for sure. There’s definitely a lot of teacher burnout, especially now during this time. But I think, and I’ve definitely lost my spark once or twice in my career. And with that, I just had, I just chose to like change grades. So one year I was teaching grade eight and I was like taught it for like two or three years. And I was like, man, I’m just losing my spark. I’m losing my patience with these older kids. And I switched to kindergarten and it was so refreshing. And after a year of kindergarten I was like, I need more stimulation. And I went back to the older grades. So, but it just allowed me to bounce right back. So, I mean, yeah, there’s definitely like lots of times where we’re teachers. I mean, some of them for their whole career they’re struggling. Right. so just, you gotta find change your grade change look for a position outside of schools. There’s lots at the school boards. So that’s just something that you can do in order to get that spark back.


Sam Demma (03:56):
That’s awesome. And from the students’ perspective, they’re also human beings, right? They also experienced burnout. Some of the things we can do during this crazy time to make them feel more appreciated and motivated to show up, maybe virtually to class, you’ve been doing some great things that I’ve been hearing. And I saw the pictures of Pixton and the software you use to kind of create a virtual classroom. Can you share a handful of ideas that you’ve tried and maybe have been successful or have tried and have failed, but you’ve learned from them? I’m sure the audience would love to hear it.


Merle Gonsalvez (04:29):
Yeah. So a lot of the things that I’m doing right, obviously virtual teaching is, is new to people. But I think that it’s important to like, just keep up with technology. I could go either way I could learn to be a dinosaur and never learn how to use these programs and just become obsolete or I can just jump right in and make mistakes and, you know, do exactly what students are doing on a daily basis learning. So that’s, that’s kind of what I’m doing for my class. I like to do a one theme day a week. So the first week was twin day. So they paired up with someone in the class and dressed alike. The next week was facial hair day. So we, I had a unibrow and a mustache and a beard with some sideburns and as I’m, I’m delivering from school, right.


Merle Gonsalvez (05:24):
So as I’m going to the bathroom, or if I’m in the hallways, in the school, I’m in a portable, but when I go inside, like the students just give me, these looks like, what is she doing? So today when I went to the washroom with my crazy hair and you know, for the audience, it’s in kind of two ponytails and then I interweaved some pipe cleaners. Yeah. I tried to give myself some bangs here with these green and orange ones. But yeah, and some feathers too. So yeah. So just steam days I do with them every morning, there’s an ice that we do together. It could either be trivia or scavenger hunt. They love the scavenger hunt where they have to bring the object back to their screen. So you know, my rules are no running over grandma or grandpa or your little siblings and to make sure that you’re safe and you have to bring the object back to the screen.


Merle Gonsalvez (06:20):
So the funniest one, I think was when I said, you have to, your next object is something alive. And this kid went like this and grabbed his mother and dragged her. He pulled her arm out of her socket, but she was like, what are you doing? He just grabbed her. I mean, he won. And so when, even when they win, I will create a little package of candy and send it to their, to their house. Either mail it if they’re far away or if they’re close, like one of my schools all like hand deliver that no contact, but hint, but deliver that. So those are fun things. And I just, the Pixton thing, I just learned about it yesterday. So I saw it yesterday on a Facebook post is there’s like a teacher group. And I was like, oh, that’s really cool. So I looked it up and then I paid for it for my whole class because it just unlocks everything. And it’s basically a site where you have your own avatar, but then you can also create


Merle Gonsalvez (07:26):
Comic this historical figures. There are different costumes, so the students can use it for language. They can use it for science, they can use it for history or geography or social studies. They can use it for religion. So it’s great in terms of, if you don’t want your students to be sitting there taking notes all day, don’t get me wrong. They need to be writing and taking notes because taking notes is great, you know, for them to learn how to write properly, they’re actually like writing proper sentences. But I remember when I was in elementary school getting callouses on my fingers and that wasn’t fun. So this is something where they can be creative have different backgrounds and be funny too. A lot of kids are really funny and they never get to express that or they’re too shy to express it. Right? So that’s something that I thought would be beneficial to my class.


Sam Demma (08:16):
That’s awesome. So many ideas, just to recap for anyone listening, have a theme for each week, play scavenger hunt on zoom, where you ask your class to go run through their house and find things and bring them back in front of the screen. You can do crazy hair days, pajama days on, on zoom as well. And then Pixton is the software that allows you to create a virtual avatar for each of your students or allow or allow them to log in and create their own. Which is really, really cool. I’m curious to know, it seems like the state of education right now is almost like throwing spaghetti against the wall and seeing what sticks.


Merle Gonsalvez (08:55):
A really good analogy. I like that.


Sam Demma (08:58):
Well, I’m Italian, right? So


Merle Gonsalvez (09:02):
For me it would be like Biryani throwing against cause I’m Pakistani. So it would be like throwing biryani.


Sam Demma (09:10):
And whoever’s listening. Just take your own cultural food as well. Yeah. Biryani is delicious side note. Have you thrown any Biryani against the wall and it hasn’t sticked and have you learned anything from it?


Merle Gonsalvez (09:28):
You know what, actually this morning so tech is so hard to work with, especially considering like my students are in a very there, my area is socioeconomically. Like, it’s tough for these kids. This one kid today said, miss I’m using my phone because my iPad the charger isn’t working, so he couldn’t present today. His work a lot of kids are just using iPads and some of the stuff isn’t compatible with iPads, I’m not too sure why. But yeah, it’s tough. So we had presentations this morning and the first one was amazing and she presented and it was like, she like kind of went above and beyond. And then from there it kind of like all unraveled and it went all downhill and there were kids who didn’t know how to present. And there were kids who didn’t know how to share their screen.


Merle Gonsalvez (10:20):
And there were kids who just one kid came on and he said, miss, I didn’t do it. And I said, are you ready to present? And he was like, yep. And then he came along. Me said, bits, I didn’t do it. And I was like, all right. So it’s, so it’s difficult. Like there’s always navigational issues, but you know, I have to take some responsibility in that because I need to know, I know now that I need to show them how to present their screen. So I actually just got two co-op students yesterday. So they’re in high school. So I asked one of them. I said, it would be amazing if you could look for a video because everything is pretty much on YouTube already. You don’t have to, you know, create that yourself, look for a video where it shows students how they can present and students how they can turn in their work. Because a lot of students aren’t, they don’t, they’re not sure how to attach documents and stuff like that. So that’s what my co-op student is doing right now. But there’s, I mean, you’re always learning, right. So, and that’s okay. And that’s great for students to see that you’re always learning.


Sam Demma (11:27):
Yeah, no, it’s so true. And with every challenge offers an ability to come up with a solution that is not only needed for yourself, but also for others, which is the beauty of this podcast. You’re probably blowing the minds of some other educators right now who are having similar issues and needed to hear this today. So I appreciate you sharing with, with COVID. There is a lot of burnout and one quick way to the teacher, why this work is so important, you know, why teaching is so important is to share a story of a student who has been impacted in your journey of education. And I’m sure you have one of those files on your desk called the bad day file, where you keep all the notes. Students have sent you over the years and you flip through them and you pull them out when you’re just not feeling the best. Is there any story that comes to mind and it could be a very serious one that really touches your heart and you can change their name for privacy reasons. Is there any story that comes to mind that you might want to share in the hope that it rekindles some inspiration and another educator to keep doing what they’re doing?


Merle Gonsalvez (12:34):
I think for, I just got actually I just got a letter from a parent, like a card from a parent in the mail and I taught her daughter in grade eight and they were, she was having like marital financial issues had pulled her kids like, and, you know, got another apartment and she was having issues and she came to, to interviews and she just started crying. And then of course I’m, I’m the type of person that cries. If, if you cry, I will cry too. So I’m just, and then she, you know, they didn’t have, didn’t have beds for these kids for kids and didn’t have you know, food for these four kids. So, I mean, just teachers, aren’t just there to educate we’re. I think the first thing you have to tend to is a person’s soul, like curriculum doesn’t really matter.


Merle Gonsalvez (13:31):
So unless you’re, unless the person’s soul is, is, you know, healthy, then it doesn’t really matter what you teach them. Cause it’s not going to stick. So I remember we had our Christmas food drive and I spoke to my principal and said, can we give this food to this family that needs it? And she was like, yeah, absolutely. And I talked to the staff and the staff brought in blankets and they brought, they gave mattresses. And so we just went and delivered it to their house. So teaching is not it’s about relationships. It’s not just about, you know, it’s not just about curriculum. I know, so I got it. So I just, that was, oh man, that was over 10 years ago that that happened. That that child is my class. And I just got a letter like in September from this mother, just a thank you.


Merle Gonsalvez (14:23):
Like I’m still thinking about you. Thank you so much. Wow. I that’s so heartwarming. Right. But there’s also teachers affect students, but teachers affect other teachers. And I think this is really important. If you could help another teacher, it’s kinda like you’re multiplying, you know, one charity say you multiply your gift multiplies. Right? It’s like, you’re multiplying that then that teacher is going to be healthy and that teacher is going to be helping their students. Right. so they’re touching so many more people. So there was a teacher who I met. She asked a question on Facebook and she was like, I’m really struggling. Can anyone help me? And I said, sure. A message like personal message me. So I was chatting with her and stuff and I gave her some resources and, and she’s in Erie, she’s in the Erie board. I don’t that’s far.


Merle Gonsalvez (15:16):
So she, after the first day of school, I messaged her at like four o’clock o’clock and I was like, Hey, how’s it going? Just checking in and stuff like that. She’s like, actually I’m not doing really well. And I was like, oh, well, do you want to you want to like FaceTime or something? And she’s like, sure. So I FaceTime and she’s crying and I’m like, oh great, here we go on down. Am I going to cry? I’m such a, I’m such a wuss when it comes to crying. So she’s crying, she’s sitting in her classroom and she’s literally crying. And I was like, okay, time to take some action. Look, let’s do this. And instead of like dwelling on it, like sure, she got things out. And we talked about it. She was teaching the grade for the first time. She was actually not a teacher.


Merle Gonsalvez (16:01):
In her first career, she was coming into the profession and she’s kind of got thrown into it with nothing. So we did her schedule. I’m like, this is what, and once your schedule is done and you kind of feel like a lot more organized, I was like, you need a mentor in your school, find a mentor tomorrow, that’s your job. Ask them to be your mentor, bring them a coffee the next day, you know, like ask them to show you around the school and where the resources are. And so I just kind of like guided her and she was so thankful and you know, she was good. She was like, honestly, I’m great. I have my mentor. And there’s, I’m like, there’s going to be struggles. Trust me. I’m teaching for 16 years. There’s still going to be struggles. But just helping that teacher and just, it’s going to now go into her class, like she’s going to now touch her students. Right. And she’s not going to be frazzled and like stressed and not be able to teach.


Sam Demma (16:55):
And that’s a piece of advice that could apply to everyone. Even if you’re not a first-time teacher, it’s always important to have a mentor or someone that you can lean on and cry with. If you both started crying.


Merle Gonsalvez (17:07):
Teach and teachers, teachers cry a lot. Parents, you need to get them a lot of tissues.


Sam Demma (17:16):
I’m just wondering if you were in your first year of education and you could speak to your younger self, what other pieces of advice would you give yourself? I know getting a mentor is obviously one of them. What else would you say?


Merle Gonsalvez (17:32):
I mean, mentor for sure. I think I would say don’t don’t judge yourself. You really can’t be so judged. Like we’re the hardest critic on ourselves, right? Where the, like the, the toughest critic. But you can’t, you have to be gentle with yourself and you just have to keep it simple. Honestly, you can’t like, you can’t be like, oh, that teacher’s doing this, that teach you pick and choose what works for you and keep it simple because if you don’t keep it simple, you know what Mike console does this. He does this really, really well. He he gives the kids like a little quiz and he makes class so fun. And that’s where I learned a lot of my stuff from I’m like, you did that. And you know, the kids think, oh, this is a really easy class, but they’re learning so much.


Merle Gonsalvez (18:20):
And he’s doing it in a way where the kids are just having fun, you know, having trivia questions about what you just taught and, you know, having, you know, games in class and stuff like that. So I think just keep it fun, keep it simple. And remember, it’s all about relationships because they’re not necessarily going to remember what you teach them. Hopefully they do. And I know I’ve had students come back and say, miss, when you did the, like, when you like told us, like, if they come in late to my class, they have to come right up to me and they have to say, sorry, miss for being late. And then I say, okay, thank you for your late sip. And then they go to their desk because that’s polite and that’s respectful. That’s not in the curriculum. Right. But I remember one student came back and said, miss in high school, I was me.


Merle Gonsalvez (19:06):
And a bunch of other people were late for class and this teacher was mad and I went up to her and I said, sorry, miss, for being late, I was late because of this, it won’t happen again. And she said, okay, thank you. Go to your class. And the other people just went and sat, go your desk. And the other people just went and sat at their desk. And she said, all of you get up and go to the office. Like she was because you’re, you’re teaching about relationships. That’s so important. Teaching kids, manners, teaching kids, how to be respectful and stuff like that. And it translates into when they get jobs. Right? Yeah.


Sam Demma (19:34):
That’s so cool. No, that’s perfect. I love that advice. And I think in the virtual world, it’s a little more difficult to foster and build those relationships, but you already gave us a ton of ideas on how to do that. Do you have any advice for a teacher who’s struggling to get their kids to turn the camera on? I know you mentioned hand delivering candy, but I know that’s also a challenge people are faced with right now. And I’m wondering if you’ve experimented with anything.


Merle Gonsalvez (19:59):
So some students are able to opt out of that and that’s okay if their parents are okay with that. But for the rest of them, I always say, so one time, a couple of times in the first weeks of school, the kids would turn their camera on and they’re like lying down in bed like that. And I’m like, okay, let’s talk about being professional. Now I have to be professional in my hair and I’ll be professional right now. But I have to be professional when I come to work. And so I’m sitting at a desk, I have a little chair in the side, like a lounge chair in the side, but I’m not teaching from there. Right. That’s for me to take my coffee breaks. I’m sitting at my desk and I’m here and I’m present, I’m dressed. I brushed my teeth and I’m ready to be on screen.


Merle Gonsalvez (20:46):
And that is how you have to come to school everyday, because that is your job. Your parents have their jobs and it pays the bills. Your job is to come to school and be a good student. So that means getting dressed being presentable and getting, and being ready to be on camera at any moment. So every morning I have them alternate or cameras on and say, hello, just a quick, hello. Like, so they either wave or they turn their mic on and they say, hi, I want to see their faces. And then if I’m doing like tasks where I need someone to present and they don’t always like volunteer right. To turn their camera on, but I always kind of say, okay, who’s the brave soul. Who’s really gonna, you know, be a leader and, and, and show their face and present it. And then after they do it, then I’ll give them like, you know, the, the compliments you know, thanks so much for doing that. I know that was tough and stuff like that. And if you say, you know, it was tough and they’re like, oh, that wasn’t so bad, then they’ll do it again. So yeah, it’s if you make it fun too, they want to turn the cameras on. Like a lot of kids wanted to show their hair. Yeah.


Sam Demma (22:03):
Yeah. That’s cool. I think making them proud of something that they want to show is like a ninja trick. And it’s a, it’s a good one. That’s a good one.


Merle Gonsalvez (22:12):
We all, we also like at the end of the day, a couple of kids taught me some tic talks and now, listen, I’m a trained dancer. I have a degree in dance and fine arts. Right. And some of these pictures I can not get right away. I’m like, wait, show me again. So at the end of the day, that’s what we do. We do something where they share. Or like we do like a little show and tell, or, you know, they’re teaching me how to do something. That’s really cool because you know, I’m old. So they’re like, miss, we’re gonna make you cool. Show this to your daughters.


Sam Demma (22:48):
Yeah. Cool. Old boat wise. And you shared a lot of the wisdom today on the,


Merle Gonsalvez (22:52):
On the flat


Sam Demma (22:56):
If another educator wants to reach out, bounce, some ideas around, have some conversations, what would be the best way for them to do so?


Merle Gonsalvez (23:03):
To me? Oh well, I’m, let’s see. I mean, they could email me if you want to put my email in the comments or whatever. They can definitely email me and reach out. I’m on Twitter @MamaGLeadership because my students the guidance counselor runtime and my class was like, you know, you spend more time here at school than you do at home. So like, I mean, technically Ms.Gonsalvez is your mama. And then one kid was like, well, Mama G. And then from there it just stuck. And my students just call me mama G. So @MamaGLeadership, that’s my Twitter, my friend and I are actually starting a new Instagram. We haven’t, you know, maybe by the time this is off, it’ll be up and ready, but it’s @teach.me.tips. So we’re just going to put all of our teacher tips right on that Instagram and share those with everyone. So if anyone wants to follow that.


Sam Demma (24:08):
Awesome. Well, thanks so much again for coming on. This has been a fantastic conversation and I really appreciate it.


Merle Gonsalvez (24:14):
Thank you so much for having me.


Sam Demma (24:17):
And there you have it, another full interview on the high-performing educator podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation with Merle and took some actionable ideas away, whether it was crazy hair day or little ways to make virtual teaching more effective and engaging for your students. As always, please consider leaving a rating and review so that more educators, just like you can find this content and benefit from the ideas and the network. And if you are someone who has ideas, if you have stories and insights that you want to share, shoot us an email at info@samdemma.com. So we can get you on the show and share those ideas. Anyways, I will see you on the next episode. Talk soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Melissa Wright

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 7, 2021 by Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

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