Student Leadership

Ren Lukoni – Teacher and student leadership advisor at L.P. Miller Comprehensive High School

About Ren Lukoni

Ren Lukoni (@RenLukoni13) has been a teacher in Nipawin, Sk. for 24 hours – just jokes – 24 years. She is also the student leadership advisor at L.P Miller Comprehensive High school.

During that time she has written two leadership courses, two local pottery courses, and has been involved in student leadership not only in her school and community but also through provincial and national organizations.

Hosting and attending student leadership conferences has been a highlight of her career, as has the relationships she has formed through those conferences and leadership networks. Ren is a firm believer in “being the change” and is also very aware that people usually hear her before they see her.

Connect with Ren: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

L.P. Miller Comprehensive High School Website

Kahoot

Saskatchewan Student Leadership Conference

Virtual Bingo

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest is a new friend of mine. Her name is Ren Lukoni. She has been a teacher in Nipawin, Saskatchewan for 24 years. During that time, she has written two leadership courses, two local pottery courses, and has been involved in student leadership, not only in her school and community, but also through provincial and national organizations. Hosting and attending student leadership conferences has been the highlight of her career as has the relationships she has formed through those conferences and leadership networks.

Sam Demma (01:13):
A lot of her friends are actually other guests on this podcast. Ren is a firm believer in being the change and is also very aware that people usually hear her before they see her. This is a very powerful conversation and I hope you enjoy it. Ren has so much passion and advice and insight to share. Make sure you have a pen and a sheet of paper ready for this interview. I hope you enjoy it. I will see you on the other side. Ren, thank you so much for coming on of the High Performing Educator podcast. It is a huge honor and pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by sharing with the listener, why you got into education and why you do the work that you’re doing today?

Ren Lukoni (01:55):
All right. Well, thank you so much, Sam, for having me on, I I’m really honored to be in the esteemed ranks as Mark England, as I saw before, and some of the others that that you’ve had on your podcast. I think what you’re doing is great. Basically my parents, both of them are educators. So it just kind of came in the, the bloodlines and I never really thought of doing anything else. Well, I did think of being a veterinarian until I realized you don’t get to play with animals all day long so that got me into education. My parents are both educator and like I said, I’ve been doing it now 24 years.

Sam Demma (02:28):
Wow. And despite the fact that your parents were educators, I know you still had to make the personal decision that you wanted to get in teaching. At what moment in time did you know I’m gonna be a teacher and dive down that path?

Ren Lukoni (02:43):
I think it just, I, I always, I guess what solidified it for me was my internship. Okay. I’m just being with the students, you know, being hands on you know, you get your four years of education you know, through lecturing, but it’s the hands on being in the classroom, that energy, that vibe that’s what solidified it for me. And I knew that that was, that was my jam.

Sam Demma (03:03):
Awesome. And you’ve been doing it now for 24 years. I would call you a veteran things, things have definitely shifted changed. You’ve had different challenges over the years. What keeps you going though? Why this work even it’s tough and challenging. Why is this the work that you think is so important to keep doing?

Ren Lukoni (03:23):
Because it’s rewarding to work with students. It’s, it’s, it’s a reward. It’s a, you, you learn from them every day. They’re inspiring. You know, lots of these students come from backgrounds and, and things that, that we have no idea what they’re, what they’re going through. And so just to, to be, be part of their day and try to brighten their day and, and make it be a you know, make school, be a place that they want to be, that they want to learn that they wanna be part of. And that’s been really tough in COVID because everyone’s been so, you know, separated and so kind of isolated. Right. Literally. So you know, that that’s, that’s been tough, but being back in has been so good on so many levels.

Sam Demma (04:06):
No, that’s awesome. And mm-hmm, speaking of, you know, seeing students change and transform and being able to impact them no matter what part of the journey they’re on right now, over the past 24 years, I’m sure you’ve had lots of students reach out. Or you’ve seen students, who’ve had huge transformations and they thank you, or they write you notes. And I’ve been talking to mark and other teachers, and they tell me that some of them have a rainy days file where they basically pull out notes that people have read them, or students wrote them, sorry to brighten their spirits. And I’m curious to know if any of those stories you’d like to share if any of them come to mind. And the reason I’m asking is because if another educator is burnt out on the edge right now, forgetting why they got into this work, a story of transformation could be something that reminds them, why, what they’re doing is so important. And if it’s a very serious story or a big transformation, that’s great. But you can change the name for privacy reasons if it’s, if it’s really serious.

Ren Lukoni (05:03):
No, it’s just there’s been a couple of things I’ve had like, like I, I said in my classroom, I keep up reminders of kind of legacy pieces from students. I mean, I keep in touch with a lot of them through social media, although not till after they graduate. That is one thing that I’ve been, been really tough on. And actually, it’s kind of funny because as I tell them, okay, once you graduate, then, you know, you can, you know, look me up on social media and I’ll have some of them at their grad parties at the stroke of 1201, send me, you know, the friend invite or whatever. And I’m just like, oh yeah, like that, that kind of, that’s a feel good thing. Right? Yeah. You know, and it’s been interesting, like I’m at the point now where I’m even, and starting to teach some of those students some of the kids of my students.

Ren Lukoni (05:46):
Nice. and so that’s, you know, a real con you know, a real feel good thing, but kind of a, a realization of, of, you know, it’s kind of cyclical, right. I actually, one of the biggest transformations that had actually, it was last year, I was actually away on medical leave. I, both my knees replaced at the same time. And, and the I was honored enough to have one of my former students who just freshly got outta university, be the one who covered my leave. And so that was really inspiring for me too. It, it has been tough with COVID it’s that connections, right? It’s the connections that are key with the students, you know, when they’re in the classroom, when they leave the classroom, I think a lot of educators would agree that our jobs are to teach ’em in the classroom, but the important ones are outside the classroom.

Ren Lukoni (06:35):
It’s what sets them up for life after, you know, high school and, and the real life situations. And I think that’s what really actually made me gravitate towards student leadership. Right. Is those, those, those impactful experiences, those life lessons. And, and I think that, you know that’s been part of key of why I’ve, I’ve kept doing things is just to keep that those life lessons going, they keep you on your toes, they keep you AF fresh. Right. and then that’s why I, I enjoy doing those kind of things, but it has been challenging in COVID that’s for sure. Yeah.

Sam Demma (07:09):
And when did you get involved in student leadership? Was this something that when you started teaching, you got involved with right away or were you introduced to it? How did that introduction to student leadership happen?

Ren Lukoni (07:20):
Well, I was I was actually involved in student leadership when I was a student myself. And I looked back in my notes when I became a teacher and I got to go to a conference in Chicago, Illinois, and one of my favorite speakers there was Mr. Mark, she Brock. Nice. and so I actually still have like, and it was a typed copy of a handout. You know, that was kind of what got me hook, line and sinker. And then I thought, you know what, I enjoyed that myself as a student. So I want to continue that in, in my role as an educator you know, getting involved in student council I actually was one of the first ones in the province to write a leadership course for credit. Nice. So that really got me inspired.

Ren Lukoni (08:03):
You know, I got involved with hosting our school here. We’re a, we’re a town, literally a town of 5,000 people, one traffic light. nice. And we hosted the, the Saskatchewan student leadership conference. We’ve hosted it three times. Nice. so at, you know, having a thousand people come to our school, come to our community and, you know, be part of it. And, and another thing too is, and I, I tell this to my leadership friends my, my C slickers people who are missing really, really greatly during this COVID experience, because we usually get to see each other at CS slick in, in some time each year. But like I said, it’s just getting involved in that and getting to know those people and having that, that network of, of people who are like you and who want to do the same and want to, to be better and, and make things better.

Sam Demma (08:55):
I love that. That’s such a great story. And it’s funny, you mentioned Mark Sharon Brock because I called him last month to talk about speaking and what advice he would give a young person, the nice bike principle. He was telling me all about his own journey. And I’m sure that had a huge impact on you. You alluded to a little earlier the challenges that you’re being faced with right now, and what do they look like? I know they’re different for each teacher and each school in each location, but what are the current barriers you’ve been facing? And maybe you can share a little bit of how you’ve overcome some of them and some of them that you’re still working on?

Ren Lukoni (09:29):
I mean, it’s an ever evolving process. And I think that’s part of it just kind of wrapping your head around it. it, it’s, it’s been a challenge, I think for me, and I don’t know what other educators feel like, but it’s the constant cleaning. Yeah. That part has kind of, you know, taken a bit of a, a hit on me. The challenges are just with people being in the classroom and then not being in the classroom. Or, you know, here, I feel we are providing a, a very safe environment you know, with the masks, with you know, sanitizing hand washing those kind of things, but it’s those connections doing so safely that at first was a barrier and now it’s, it’s been a good thing we’ve realized, you know, you can socially distanced and be safe.

Ren Lukoni (10:13):
I think it, that it’s part of the trust issues I think, is what has been the hardest overcome. Mm. And that we’re working, we’re working on it. And again, I mean, we’re just a town of 5,000. Like, you know, I, I tell my saying before I tell my, my friends, you know, N one’s really on, on the, the road to nowhere. Like, not that we’re at the end of the road, but you know, we’re not on a trans Canada. We’re our closest city of 40,000 people is an hour and a half away. So at first it was kind of interesting because , some people were joking with us like, oh, you know, Laconia, you always have an isolated life because you live in nip one, you know, you’re, you’re on the way to nowhere. And, and that was kind of the chuckle, but I mean, you know, COVID is proven to us that it, it can be in any community anywhere. And so it’s, it’s that establishment establishment of trust, you know, and, and hard during these COVID times to, to, to keep that going.

Sam Demma (11:06):
Yeah. No, it’s so true. And the relationship building is harder. I know you mentioned it earlier a little bit as well. Are you doing classes in, like in person or are they virtual? Is there of both, how’s that looking for your school?

Ren Lukoni (11:19):
It’s a mix of both for us here, our high school, well, our school, I should say it is a high school, but we’re grade seven to 12. We have about 425 students here. Nice. so with grade seven and eights they’re in the same kind of cohorts are same groupings, grades nine, about the same, they switch a little bit up for some of gonna apply to our classes. And then our grade 10, 11 twelves are division fours. We’re running a block timetable mm-hmm which I’m sure lots, others are doing two, two hour classes running quarters and then one, one hour class for a whole semester. So that’s what it’s looking like for us. It, it, you know, we’ve had to make some tweaks, some adjustments. I also happen to teach art and, and pottery. So having a two hour class of that has been really good.

Ren Lukoni (12:02):
We get a lot more creativity and, and things like that done. And I am looking forward to, I have my leadership class next quarter. So I’m really excited to do that, but then there’s gonna be challenges with that too, because, you know, we want to do things to help people and be out in the community. And it’s, it’s finding those ways to be, to, to do that still and be safe and show that we care and build those relationships and and, and just kind of get out there, but doing so in a safe way.

Sam Demma (12:26):
Yeah. No, it’s so true. And things are definitely difficult, but not impossible. And so I’m curious to know what things are working in the school right now, in terms of maybe some ideas that the school has tried to engage the students, or maybe that you’ve tried on zoom or in your classroom, any ideas come to mind that you think are worth sharing?

Ren Lukoni (12:46):
Oh, yeah, for sure. So we are running, I didn’t answer that in the previous question, but we are running like fully face to face. Okay. cool. So we do have some students that have elected to go online when people have to self isolate or self-monitor, I mean, they’ve been in touch, you know, we, we, we go online for that. So we’ve been able to do some things in our school you know, running Kahoots doing some virtual bingos have been great. And I talking to some other colleagues just this morning, actually in their saying, okay, what can we do to get that spirit up? You know, you can do your spirit days and, and people can do those individual things today as plaid day mad for plaid day. So, I mean, lots of people were dressed up unintentionally even, which was great.

Ren Lukoni (13:28):
Nice. but that’s been a challenge too, just because of the, the numbers. Right. you know, we’re still lucky enough we’re running our extracurricular programs and then live streaming them. So that’s been kind of a connection you know, to our sports. We’ve had modified sporting seasons. But like I said, our student council’s meeting our humanitarian group is meeting. They actually did they was their idea. They came up with post-it notes on lockers, just to old people that they care and to kinda give ’em a boost for the start of a second quarter. Nice. So that’s good, but you know, you do what you can and you, like I said, you have to kind of make it a place where people wanna be worth doing school clothing right now, which is also, you know, help kind of boost morale. But like I said, you know, other than that, you’re always kind of looking for something, okay, what can I do reach out? Or, you know, it’s tough to, we think of our school as like a hub for a community. And yet the only ones that are allowed in are really the staff and the students. So that’s been a real barrier as well.

Sam Demma (14:26):
Yeah. That makes sense. No, it’s true. I love the ideas of Kahoot. I love the virtual bingo. those are all, those are all great. And no one can see it right now cuz they’re listening, but you you’re in an art room with beautiful paintings all over the walls and on the roof. And you know, what, what got you interested in art? I know we didn’t talk too much about that. We talked about your journey into education, but why is an art teacher? How did that start for you?

Ren Lukoni (14:52):
Well, believe it or not. At the time our current art teacher, it was over Christmas and he was roofing and actually fell off the roof and broke his arms. Oh my gosh. And then I came in. Yeah. So it was kinda trial by fire. At that point I was just kind of a newbie. I was, I was teaching arts educat, which is music, dance, drama and art. Yeah. So the principal at the time said, Hey, you know, can you fill in? And, and that’s just how I got my start in, in doing art. Kind of took some, took some workshops and, and had help of another teacher. And I also was teaching Potter kind of self taught, took some lessons on that. You know, and just kind of went that route. And, and it’s interesting because I actually started all my educational career as an elementary teacher grades four or five.

Ren Lukoni (15:40):
And actually what, what brought me to this area? This is actually my, my dad’s hometown. But it was my, my grandmother who saw an ad in the nip one journal. And she actually sent me the clipping mail, but when I went to apply for it I heard from the division office. Oh yes. We’ve heard your grandmother. She called and I was like, really? And they’re like, oh yeah. And it went along the lines of likely my granddaughter need job and and you know, so that’s what brought me here. You know, I was lucky enough to have many years with my, with my grandmother here in Nipon my dad’s hometown. So there’s a bit of that kind of legacy. And I think that that’s a, a, a key point that we need to, you know, maybe go back to, or you know, when things kind of get tough or when, you know, things kind of seem impossible or like we’re dealing with COVID it’s, it’s, it’s those reminders of the leg see of what you did in the past, but then also how you can move forward.

Sam Demma (16:36):
I love it. and I could relate to the grandparents story. I never had my grandma or grandfather call, but they’re very, they’re very, they’re very outspoken as well. That’s how I’ll say it. And that’s a great story to end with because you showed that despite you didn’t know the role and the requirements and the skills involved, you kept a growth mindset and you were, you pushed yourself to learn the skills by taking extra classes and by jumping into the fire and with COVID, it’s a very similar scenario, although it’s not art class, it’s just new reality that we don’t know much about. And we have to put on that growth mindset and try and figure things out as we go. if you could give your younger self advice in education, like if you could go back to the first year you started teaching, but have all the wisdom you have now, what would you tell yourself that you think would be really valuable to hear.

Ren Lukoni (17:28):
Take the small risks, take the safe risks cuz those, the ones that you either learn from or they pay off the most mm-hmm I, I really believe strongly in like, you know, smart risk taking I would say like just, just put yourself out there and, and always want to lifelong improve. Mm. You know, there’s always things you can learn and be open to those things. You know, if you would’ve asked me then would I be a high school teacher teaching art, pottery leadership and art Zeta? Absolutely not, but that’s just the way it went and, and you just have to kind of roll with the punches and go with what’s what’s thrown at you and, and just find to persevere. I think that’s a big I think that’s a, a big area that we all need to, to, well, we have been persevering, but especially with students, it’s just to, to persevere, to stick with it you know, try to make it fun.

Ren Lukoni (18:21):
Yeah. Obviously you know, that first year teaching is is a lot of work. But it’s a lot of fun as well. That’s a tough one to go back and tell myself because you know, you reflect back on, on your career and, and you look back at how things have changed or how things are evolving, especially now with COVID. You know, and I think that’s also advice that you need to give is just be, be ready to evolve. You know, take, take those experiences, take those risks and, and, you know, do it for the better and to stay positive. You know, it’s easy to say it it’s hard, it’s harder to do, but it it’s that it’s that positive outlook, that positive mindset, that growth mindset, like you said that we need to, to, to really emphasize right now.

Ren Lukoni (19:09):
And, and for me, it’s the people. Yeah. People are, are, people are what and the relationships are what keep me going, keep me inspired. You know, and, and I, I wouldn’t be the person I, I am today without those, those, those impacts and, and you know, the Nicole hairs of the world, the mark E Englands of the world, Dawn, we here in Saskatchewan the, the two twisted, I call ’em twisted sisters, even though they’re not Sandra and dot out of Alberta, like I’ve had so many you know, really I’ve been so fortunate to have the crew of people that have been around me to, to you know, support me and, and help me grow. And like I said, I could go on for hours on the list of people. I mean, we got a crew from our cease, like the PI crew, the new fees you know, our own Saskatchewan crew, our SACA crew, like I’ve been so fortunate to work with so many quality people and quality leaders. And I think that that’s a good piece of advice is, is, you know, be around a good people. Hmm. Surround yourself with a good people and learn from them.

Sam Demma (20:13):
I’ll tell Nicole, you say, hi, she’s in Qatar as I’m sure. You know I interviewed her literally two days ago. And her you’ll be coming out just, just before yours. So maybe too can connect about it.
Ren Lukoni (20:26):
Yes, no, I, like I said, I miss Nicole and like I said, she has been a leader by example, let me tell you.

Sam Demma (20:33):
Nice, awesome, Ren, thank you so much for making some time to come on the show. I really appreciate it. This was a great conversation and keep up all the great work.

Ren Lukoni (20:40):
Well, thank you so much, Sam. I really appreciate all you’re doing and, and truly thank you. I’ve really appreciated it.

Sam Demma (20:47):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise, I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see to you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Ren Lukoni

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education. By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators. You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

Michael Booth – Principal of Blyth Academy’s Yorkville and Orbit Campuses

About Michael Booth

Michael Booth is the Principal of Blyth Academy’s Yorkville and Orbit Campuses. Previously, he taught undergraduate courses at Northwestern University, Loyola University and Indiana University while pursuing a Ph.D. in Film Studies. Michael has a B.A. from McGill University and an M.A. from New York University.

Connect with Michael: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Blyth Academy Website

Principles by Ray Dalio

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want to network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com, sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. you might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Michael Booth. He is the Principal of the Blyth Academy, Yorkville and Orbit campuses. He has previously taught undergraduate courses at Northwestern University, Loyola University and Indiana University while pursuing his PhD in film studies. Michael has a BA from McGill University and an MA from New York University.

Sam Demma (01:06):
I had the pleasure of speaking at a couple of Blyth campuses over the past few years, and Michael’s energy really reflects the professionalism that all of the Blyth students and campuses have and contain and pass on to all of their students. I hope you enjoy this episode. I’ll see you on the other side. Michael, welcome to the High Performing Educator Podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you on the show today. Why don’t you start by sharing a little bit about yourself with the audience and explain why you got into the work you do with young people today?

Michael Booth (01:36):
I am the the Principal of Blyth Academy’s downtown Toronto campus. I started with Blyth Academy. We are a, a small boutique private high school in Southern Ontario with campuses across the province from, I think we have 10 campuses now stretching as far east, as London and west as Ottawa. I started with the school 11 years ago now when I was returning to Toronto with my family after the first half of my career was mostly in, in academia, in the states and I was doing my graduate work there. And we were coming back to Toronto. I was looking to come back to secondary education and they were opening a new campus at that time in Mississauga and asked if I would be interested in running that, which I did for eight years. And a couple of years ago go, move to the Toronto location, and this summer I’m also the principal of a new campus we’ve begun, which exists in the virtual hemisphere. Nice. Which is in following the model of what all of our bricks and mortar campuses did in the wake of the lockdown in March running classes face to face with teachers and students through the zoom platform on an entirely, but the, these classes are exclusively virtual for its students.

Sam Demma (03:17):
That’s awesome. And it’s slightly different than maybe what teaching was like last year in the past 11 for you. What has been working in your two locations, virtual and in person with your students right now, and what problems or challenges have you been faced with that you guys have slightly overcome or are still dealing with that someone listening might find valuable?

Michael Booth (03:38):
Well, we’ve been very fortunate at Blythe because I think that more than most, any other school in the province our existing, physical model the gap between that model and what we, we are doing virtually is I think smaller at our school than most any other. And the reasons for that is that we have always had very small class sizes. So in the physical campuses, our class sizes have always been capped at 16 students. The average class size is eight students in the virtual world. We cap them at 12 and they still average about eight. We also have what used to be a, a fairly unique academic calendar where most high schools in the province are either semester with two semesters of a full course load being four courses per student, per semester, after or full year with students taking all their courses from September, until June at the same time, we’ve always been on a quarter system which is in fact what most of the public schools in the province have now turned to.

Michael Booth (04:57):
And the quarter system means that a full course of students is two courses per what the public schools are calling quadmesters. We call them terms. So from September, until mid-November, you might take geography and math, and then you’ve completed those courses, and then you move on to science and history and, and so on. And so that that mix of two courses at a time plus small class sizes plus our school is everything we do and, and our entire structure is dedicated towards very rigorous, comprehensive communication between ourselves students and students, parents, and guardians. Mm. And so in the wake of, of COVID in, we, we were notified, I think, right before March break by the Tuesday after March break, we had resumed classes on the same schedule, same timetable, and didn’t miss a day for the rest of the, the year.

Michael Booth (06:13):
And we simply maybe not, but more simple for us. We were able to effectively mirror what we do in the physical campus, through the zoom platform, so that those are when students are only doing two classes a day, the duration of the classes is longer. So we have two hour and 15 minute time blocks for each class per day. And that doesn’t necessarily mean that students just, as in the physical campus, it’s a very rare, you virtually never would walk around our classrooms and see teach every teacher classroom after classroom standing at the front of the room and, and in a more of a lecture mode trying to pitch it down the middle and hoping that more advanced students aren’t bored and weaker students are following. We have two hour and 15 minutes with an average of eight students in the class to engage in different styles of teaching different styles of assessment.

Michael Booth (07:20):
A lot of one-on-one conferencing, a lot of group work. Our teachers float around the room and students have opportunities to engage in different learning activities in the same class. On the same day, we can do that through the zoom platform as well. So it’s not necessarily the case that our student are listening to a teacher drone on, as I am for two hours on end. They might have a half hour 45 minutes of more traditional classroom conversation, discussion, PowerPoint presentation, have a small break rejoin, and then they might be assigned independent work that they might in breakout rooms on zoom. They might do off camera and then come back. They might have conferences scheduled with the teachers in that second hour to do one on one work. And so our model is really equipped us well to, to carry on in, in that format, the physical school we have resumed physical classes in September and because of our class sizes we’ve been able to maintain social distancing and cohorting of 15 or fewer students.

Michael Booth (08:34):
So no student is exposed to more than 15 other students at any given time of the year. And if a student is unable to come to the school because of an illness in their household, or a situation of immunocompromised or something like that, there is a virtual option coupled with the physical option, always available mm-hmm . So teachers have cameras in their classrooms and you’ll see if a student’s not able to be there. The student will be projected onto a a screen through zoom and be able to interact with their classmates and the teacher.

Sam Demma (09:10):
That’s cool. That’s how awesome game plan. And I think you’re existing model sets you up and life up really well to adapt and evolve with the current situation. What has, what have the students really enjoyed about the changes? Have they given the school or teacher any feedback on what they’re liking and disliking or what they wanna see more of and less of?

Michael Booth (09:34):
Yeah, I think, I mean, I was, I was actually really impressed and we, because we are, we’re a small school community, very, very inclusive, very diverse, very supportive. We all last year, we already had, you know, a very strong community that proved quite resilient. And our approach was able to cater to students that were struggling to adapt to a virtual classroom. And they supported each other for some students they actually really, I mean, they like the fact that they don’t have a commute for some student into, might be struggling with anxiety for them, some of them, the virtual format has actually helped alleviate that. I think, but I, I don’t know that the students have really in the virtual school their are students that don’t live within commuting distance to our physical campuses.

Michael Booth (10:41):
And so we have students from Alberta, we have international students that, that appreciate being able to join our schools without being physically there. They appreciate that we’ve been able to maintain continuity. So where many students in the last half year have, have effectively lost quite a bit of their access to teachers and curriculum. So we’ve, we’ve really this year, for example, our grade 11 math class is struggling because many of the students did not gain the fifth foundations they needed in grade 10 math. So we’ve been kind of triple timing it to help those students through their grade 11 course. But the students that have been with our school ha have not had that struggle because they didn’t have that interruption. We still have the same flexibility and of time tabling. So students have as much course selection and of course, flexibility and adaptability through the year that they’ve always had with us, whereas in many schools, because of the, the challenges that they’re facing the timetables are pretty set and they’re not changing and they’re not adapting.

Michael Booth (11:59):
And and very often they don’t even know exactly what it’s going to be in the next quad master, much less the third or fourth quad master. I think that the challenges that we faced are, are again, they’re, they’re not dissimilar from what we face in the physical school, it’s just, they’re taking on digital forms. So for example, students being shy about or, or, or lazy about, or not wanting to turn their cameras on. And we, as with everything, we, we approach that with empathy and support, we reach out to the student and their families to try and have discussions about what’s happening. If it’s a case of something appreciable like, like anxiety or their, an internet connection, isn’t speedy, we’ll make arrangements where that, you know, that’s okay. But as, as the, as the weeks progress and the year progresses, we, we approach that not unlike we might, we would approach attendance.

Michael Booth (13:06):
So if a student is struggling to make it to class on time or to come to class that’s, that’s enters into the conversation that the school has with the student and their, and their parents or guardians. And unlike, I, I, I know again in the, I, I’m not meaning to I fully appreciate the challenges that, that some of the public schools and the province are facing. And I, I really admire the work they’ve done, but they simply don’t have the capacity to help students and, or require students to have their cameras on. So they’ve got, you know, 25 students in a class and all of their cameras are off. And we, that’s not the case with us. We, we might have one student that we’ve made an arrangement with, but otherwise their cameras are on, they’re engaged and we’re having daily lessons with all of the interactions that we normally would.

Sam Demma (13:57):
Nah, that’s fantastic. And I know your campus has a lot of athletes as well, and extra quicks are a big part. How are you navigating these students who were super involved in other areas, aside from academics, not being able to do those things anymore, is there some way to deal with that and manage with that that’s been successful?

Michael Booth (14:15):
I, Yeah, that’s the, the athletics part is, is more challenging. Where, where one of our strengths lies is with the four terms and three periods a day of which students take two they can manipulate the schedule so that if they’re doing athletics outside of the school, so we have competitive figure skaters, hockey players, soccer players track athletes who have been able to maintain their, their practice schedules. There’s not a lot of games going on, even outside the school. So that’s a nice option with, with our clubs and physical education classes. We, we ran PHY ed in the fourth turn in the spring last year. And it was actually a great course to run because it, it helped us to motivate the students to get outta their bedrooms, which I think initially, I mean, it’s still a problem, but it’s initially it was a serious problem.

Michael Booth (15:16):
And we were doing yoga classes online and we were doing fitness classes, or we were asking them to design their own health programs, but varsity soccer is not really happening. Unfortunately mm-hmm, with other extracurriculars and clubs, because we’re trying to maintain the cohorts of students on Wednesdays. We run a shortened academic day and then we have two periods in the afternoons dedicated to extracurriculars and clubs. So our student council is up and running. We have a math club, we have a model UN club. We have, I think about eight different clubs going and extracurriculars going on for a total student population of 150 students. And so weekly, they’re getting to do that, meet other students in the school. And and that’s how we’ve been able to

Sam Demma (16:10):
Do that. That’s awesome. No, it’s fantastic. There’s so many different challenges, but it seems like you guys have been very successful at managing it and pivoting and finding what works and sticking with it. I think a huge key was the empathy piece that you mentioned in meeting kids where they’re at and understanding their situation before trying to coach them through anything. And I’m curious to know when you were a young person, not that you’re old , but when you were younger and you were in school did you have an educator in your life that made a huge impact on you and what did that person do? That made a big difference. And how did that, like, how did that lead you into education? Was there a defining moment where you decided I want to be a teacher?

Michael Booth (16:53):
Yeah, I think grade seven. I was I was fortunate to go to a, an independent school in Toronto where not unlike many of my friends, my dad was in, in, on base street and banking. And I, I thought until grade seven that I would just do whatever it was he did when he put his suit on to go to work in the morning. But I had an English teacher who was that teacher that, that that touched a lot of us and made me even more excited about the humanities than, than I had been in the past. And really after that, it didn’t occur to me to do much of anything but teaching. And that was really twofold. One was, I always liked working with, with kids. I was a camp counselor but it was also the academic side of it.

Michael Booth (17:46):
So that was, you know, my first job was actually working at the high school. I went to I was working in the boarding house and I was and actually my high school teacher that really inspired me had to take a leap of absence for the second half of the year. So when I was in my second year out of undergrad, I took his, his courses. And that was that, that kind of sealed the deal. And then I wanted to pursue graduate work. But the thing I loved about the graduate work most was the teaching and the thing I didn’t like as much as it was not as conducive to raising a family and yeah, and, and engaging students as much as I wanted to focus on. So that, that was what prompted me to come back to Toronto and, and, and work with life.

Sam Demma (18:38):
That’s awesome. That’s a cool story. And was it just a push that he gave you that inspired you? Was it, what, what made him an impactful teacher? Because the educators listening who are thinking, how can I be more effective with my students? And I can tell you, I had a grade 12 world issues teacher named Mike loud foot who changed my life. And the thing for me with him was his passion. He really cared about what he taught, what he taught. And when he talked about it, you just wanted to listen because he was excited. And I I’m curious, what was it like, what was the qualities of your teacher that made it different from every other class?

Michael Booth (19:14):
In the, in the case of the grade seven teacher, that’s when we started talking about themes in the novels, we were reading of the story and that I’d never done that. And so it brought my level of engagement with the material and my level of thinking beyond what I knew existed. Mm. And then he, he taught like, instead of in, for the poetry unit, instead of only doing 19th century romantic poets, we studied pink, Floyd’s the wall. And we did, I, I think it, I think it was a three or four week unit on that. and so that made me realize that studying wasn’t just out of the textbook and it wasn’t remembering dates and so forth. Mm-Hmm . So in, in my, the case, my high school teacher he, he taught a course that was of his own design that he, that called modernism and I, I, and about modern the modernist movements in art and literature and and the arts in general and, and philosophy.

Michael Booth (20:20):
And I didn’t know that existed either when, when I was in grade that was grade 13. And like a lot of my teachers in high school, I, I would sit in class and I wanted to be as smart as they were. I wanted to be able to cite thinkers and I wanted to be able to interpret the world. I wanted to be able to give commentary and analysis at levels that I couldn’t at the time. Hmm. So that’s a little, that’s a little passe these days. I think, I think a lot of times when people, you know, the current pedagogical trends are more towards experiential learning and student driven learning, and finding ways to, to engage the students almost as if it’s your job to, to, to tap into what they are interested in. Mm. Whereas in my day it was more the case that you’d kind, it was, the teacher would stand there and just be so illuminating that you would be inspired.

Michael Booth (21:32):
And I, I think I, I, I think a mix of both is, is worthwhile. And I, I, I sometimes worry that we put we certainly do it Blyth and, and we put a lot of emphasis on making sure are that we are engaging, the students interests as they exist before they enter the classroom. And my feeling is there’s actually nothing wrong with challenging them to move outside of their, their the interests that they bring in to recognize connections between those interests and what the teacher may be talking about that day. Mm. And, and there’s nothing wrong with challenging them to exceed what their immediate knowledge is of. And I, I, I think particularly in the age of social media where their interests, their desires, their curiosities are being satisfied by the second. And it’s whatever they, they within themselves think to tap into quite literally they don’t have as much experience with feeling uncomfortable or challenged.

Michael Booth (22:47):
And so I fear that if we don’t, build those skills in them, that the world is a much harsher and crueler place to enter as an adult for them than it was for me in my generation. And I fear that when confronted with the challenges of having to meet the expectations of someone other than themselves, that they won’t have much practice in doing that. And so we’re constantly trying to find that balance with us and, and, you know, like with the black screens, like we start with empathy, we start with accommodations, but ultimately the goal is to work on resiliency and that may involve consequences. And we don’t lay them down at the outset. As a matter of course, we work with each student with each family to find what the, the line is. Yeah. But ultimately we’re working to wean them off of the accommodations and the need for degrees of empathy that they might need at the start.

Sam Demma (23:50):
That’s so true. And Ray Dalio, hedge fund manager wrote a book called principles, and he talks about problems and he says most often the bad outcome is just a root of a bigger issue. So having a screen is not actually the, the problem, it’s a symptom of a problem, which you have to uncover through conversations. So I think the approach that you guys take is a great one and it’s well thought out, and I think it can be applied to any problem a students facing. It’s probably not the real problem. Just a root, gotta dig a little bit deeper. That’s fascinating.

Michael Booth (24:25):
Yeah. One of my refrains to the teachers is 99.99, 9% of the time, whatever the behavior or posture a student is, is, is presenting is not what’s actually going on inside. So if it’s a boy that’s kind of fronting and pretending, or not pretend, but acting like he doesn’t care and he’s not interested and sometimes a little oppositional or what have you underlying that is actually some, probably some insecurity maybe you know, certain struggles in particular areas of processing or what have you mm-hmm . And so you always have to translate what’s in front of your face, into an understanding that you don’t actually know. And until you have a better sense of it, give the benefit of the doubt because otherwise they’ll shut down. Yeah. But then going back to my earlier point, ultimately, we’re going to work to get you to, to the place where we don’t have to do that translation, because we figured, figured out where, where the problem lies and what we can do about it.

Sam Demma (25:35):
Yeah. There’s a quote what people don’t or what kids or students don’t, what, what kids don’t speak out, they act out I think Josh ship was the speaker who said that once, and it really resonated with what you do is saying what you’ve learned so far on your educational journey. Maybe you, if you could, could you summarize your key learnings that if you could talk to your former self, when you just started, like what key learnings or pieces of advice would you give? Imagine there’s an educator listening. Who’s just starting teaching now, or is a little overwhelmed your experience over the past 11 years, what do you think are some key things to tell your younger self or a new educator?

Michael Booth (26:14):
Well, I think what we were just talking about is, is is probably the, the refrain that I, that I use the most and the, the way I can best explain it is there’s a great seminar that I’ve gone to a couple of times that my wife is a social worker. So she, she introduced me to this and it’s called walk of mile in my shoes. And it’s for parents of students with learning disabilities and what they do. They start the seminar by showing parents of student of children with, with learning disabilities, a problem on a, on a board and asking them to take five or 10 minutes to solve the problem. And, but the problem is pure gobbly go, and there is no solution. Yeah. And when the parents experience that, then the presenter says, so that’s what your child is going through 24/7.

Michael Booth (27:11):
Mm. And I’ve been to a couple, my wife has been to many and, and she says that she’s, and it happened when I was there. She’s never seen, been attended the seminar when one of the fall, others has not broken down in tears realizing that when he was brow eating his, his son or daughter, that they weren’t being lazy or resistant or whatever, just for the cuz they liked to do that. Cause they were having a struggle that was invisible to the parents. And I think it’s similar. We all fall into habits of, oh, they’re Johnny. So and so is struggling again and giving me a hard time because Johnny is lazy or unmotivated or what have you. And I’m not in the trenches in the classroom as much as I used to be. So I feel like it’s my job to remind teachers to try to walk a mile in their, their student shoes.

Michael Booth (28:07):
Mm that’s awesome. And, and then on the other token, I mean, it’s all about navigating these, these, these often conflicting or competing demands not necessarily only accommodating and this is parents and students. Yeah. We have the capacity at this school to be highly responsive to students struggling or trying to achieve a higher goal or what have you. And the, the immediate impulse is at times to, oh yeah, we can make that accommodation. So we will, and that’s fine at the start, but ultimately the end goal is always, how do we, how do we work ourselves off of needing that accommodation? Like if, if possible.

Sam Demma (28:57):
Yeah. That’s awesome. And a side note question before we wrap up today over your right shoulder, there’s a picture on the wall. It might it be Martin Luther king. I’m curious to know if this is your office or what that picture says.

Michael Booth (29:12):
No, that, that is my office. It’s it’s an album cover for a John QUT train jazz saxophone player.

Sam Demma (29:19):
Nice. yeah. Cool. Very cool.

Michael Booth (29:22):
Having a rough day. I’ll just turn around and look at that and it makes me feel a bit better.

Sam Demma (29:26):
Oh, I love it. Cool. That’s amazing. And if anyone wants to reach out, have a conversation, they think something you said was impactful or inspiring, what’s the best way for someone listening (an educator) to do so?

Michael Booth (29:39):
My email mbooth@blytheducation.com is, is great. And I can schedule zoom calls and, and phone calls and or email exchanges.

Sam Demma (29:48):
Awesome! Michael, thank you so much for taking some time today. I really appreciate it, it’s been really insightful. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com, and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Michael Booth

December 28, 2021 by Sam Demma Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teaching Tips 0

Dave Barrett – Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program (OYAP) Coordinator for the Bluewater District School Board and the Bruce-Grey Catholic District School Board

About Dave Barrett

Dave Barrett is the Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program (OYAP) Coordinator for the Bluewater District School Board and the Bruce-Grey Catholic District School Board. OYAP is a School to Work program that opens the door for students to explore and work in apprenticeship occupations starting in Grade 11 or Grade 12 through Cooperative Education, events and community partnerships.

Prior to Dave’s work with OYAP, he was the Project Manager for the Saugeen Economic Development Corporation (SEDC) for 12 years and worked in many different sectors and industries over his career.

Connect with Dave: Email | Linkedin | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program (OYAP)

Pathways to Apprenticeship (Skills Ontario)

What is Co-operative Education?

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest on the podcast is Dave Barrett. Dave is the Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program Coordinator for the Bluewater District School Board and the Bruce-Grey Catholic District School Board. OYAP is a school to work program that opens the doors for students to explore and work in apprenticeship occupations starting in grade 11 or grade 12 through cooperative education events and community partnerships. Prior to Dave’s work with OYAP he was a project manager for the Saugeen Economic Development Corporation, SEDC for 12 years, and worked in many different sectors and industries over his career. I hope you enjoy this conversation and get a new perspective on future career planning for students with Dave.

Sam Demma (01:28):
Dave, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here with us. Please start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about what you do!

Dave Barrett (01:40):
All right. My name is Dave Barrett. I’m the Ontario youth apprenticeship program coordinator for two school boards both Bruce Grey, Catholic district school board and the Bluewater district school board. So we, I cover all of gray and Bruce counties, which is slightly bigger than the province of prince Edward island. And my job is to encourage students to explore the pathway of apprenticeship through co-op education and the great career opportunities in the skilled trades.

Sam Demma (02:05):
What got you into this work? Why OYAP and why are you the person doing it?

Dave Barrett (02:11):
That’s an interesting question because if you looked at my resume, I’m really not qualified to be doing what I’m doing. However in my previous career I worked in economic development and workforce development was a big piece of that. And it was one of the areas where we’d hear all the time that students weren’t participating in these great career opportunities and not exploring the skilled trades. Well, when I took on this role, I found out many were, but we, we opened up more opportunities for them to do it and tried them in different ways. And then through my role in my community contacts, we’ve created all kinds of, of different events for students to come and try it. It doesn’t matter if they’re on the academic college workplace or apprenticeship pathway, if you don’t try it, how can you know, if this is the career for you?

Dave Barrett (02:55):
So that was where sort of my, my role, my expertise, and my background brought to this. And we’ve just continued to raise the numbers of the number of students who are exploring. I don’t think the skilled trades are for everybody, but I also don’t think university is. And I also don’t think colleges, and sometimes you gotta work for a couple years to figure things out all are great pathways. I just wanna make sure people understand the skill old trades before they start thinking that this isn’t the career for them. Cuz there’s some great opportunities here.

Sam Demma (03:24):
I couldn’t agree more. I think every pathway is a valid option. Every student learner is different. You know, my dad is someone who works in skilled trades and half of my family works in skilled trades and it’s a, it’s a great way to make a living. And if you love building things and working with, and why not?

Dave Barrett (03:42):
The what, but if you never tried it before, when you were in elementary school, how can you, how can you know? Well, I don’t want to take tech when I get to high school. Yeah. So that’s, that’s kind of the, the stuff that we work towards

Sam Demma (03:52):
Now, did you grow up working with your hands and very involved in labor and you know, the trades yourself?

Dave Barrett (04:00):
I’ve had a varied background, so I I’m very upfront with students when I do my my OYAP presentation. Cool. And what I talk about is I’m somebody who gets bored after about seven to 10 years of doing anything . So I did work in construction and started an apprenticeship. And then I worked for a cabinet maker for about five years we were talking, we were, I was on the apprenticeship pathway and thought, you know what? I really don’t wanna do this. Then I bounced around. I got into healthcare and I was actually back in the day, they called them orderly, but I was a PSW in a nursing home, still the best job I ever had, but you know, moved on, did college pathway, cuz I wanted to do other things I worked in for a while. I was actually responsible for apprentices at an auto body shop for a number of years that I managed.

Dave Barrett (04:46):
And then I went into community economic development. So I used the university pathway to get my certifications there. And now I’m an OYAP coordinator and you know, that’s what we talk to students is whatever, whatever pathway you decide now you’re not locked in, you know, use the tool. And I, I, what I try and equate is the pathways are actually just tools. Use the tool when you need the tool. So if you need to do an apprenticeship, do an apprenticeship. If you go, you know what? I think I’m smarter than these engineers then great use the tool of university, go become an engineer and show them and move on in your career.

Sam Demma (05:19):
And how do you think a teacher who is, is not, you know, promoting OYAP and keep in mind, there might be educators listening as well. They’re outside of Ontario. So keep, how would you suggest a teacher promote different pathway opportunities, including the skilled trades to their students?

Dave Barrett (05:38):
I, what I encourage, I talk to my teachers about is I have no expecta that they would understand the skilled traits if they didn’t have family connection to them. Yeah. So use your experts. You know, Mo all teachers pretty well had followed the university pathway. They know it very well. They’re gonna promote it cuz it’s worked well for them. But contact your OYAP coordinator, your tech teachers your community partners and have them come in, cuz they’re the experts in this field. And, and that’s, that’s what we do here is my guidance folks, my student, success, people, careers, teachers all know who I am. They know how to reach me and I’ll come in and present the apprenticeship pathway for them and help them with activities. And then they’re the ones that I send the invitations to come to our hands on events and different events to hear different perspectives, women in skilled trades, indigenous youth in the skilled trades, you know we’ve got a nuclear power plant in our backyard that everybody wants to go work for. How do they get in there? Well, bring them here to say, here’s how you do it. You know, those types of things and use your use your local experts. People who consider, you know, expect teachers to know everything, baloney. They know what they know and their, and what their pathway took. Them, use your experts and, and locally we do pretty well with that. I think.

Sam Demma (06:54):
Yeah, I think you’re so right. Everyone goes into their job or their situation and most of their beliefs are based on their own past experiences. So if you know you

Dave Barrett (07:04):
Past experiences and perceptions. Yeah. And it’s, it’s funny cuz I actually start, I, I started it years ago, but I started my presentation with, I’m not here to recruit you to apprenticeship. I’m here to, to make sure you understand it before you start. Aren’t listening to people who haven’t got a clue, what they’re talking about. and then once we get into it, all of a sudden they’re going, oh, I had no idea the number of teachers that go, why didn’t I do this? You know, it it’s, it’s fascinating. But it’s just one of those things where there’s all these perceptions and I just spend all my time knocking them down so that when a student student hears it from somebody, they go, no, no, that’s not how it is. I do know this. So, and that, that’s how we’re breaking down those barriers. I

Sam Demma (07:45):
Love that. You can see here, no one can see this who’s listening, but there’s a little empty upside down backpack on top of my hat. And , I, I have this belief that every person in life has an invisible bag strapped to their back and is filled with all those perspectives and past experiences that shape their beliefs. And you kind of carry those things with you. And you know, oftentimes sometimes people put things in there that shouldn’t be in there and that could be, you know, perspectives that hold you back or limit you. And you know, if you don’t stop to remove the things that were never yours to begin with, they start to become weights that weigh you down. And I think it’s just a, a cool, a way to put into perspective what you’re saying. It’s like we have to empty our backpacks and be opens to perspectives.

Dave Barrett (08:25):
Sam. I love that. I, I think that’s brilliant. I’m actually gonna steal it from you. I’m really big on R and D Rob and duplicate. Nice. I love that cuz that’s exactly what happens. And I, I see it too often. I got into a a discussion with a student who was certain, he wasn’t allowed to go into the skilled trades because he was on the university pathway. He said, no, no I’m only allowed to go to university, but he truly believed that. So then we have to talk about, and that was a perception that he was carrying in that backpack that you talked about, that we needed to say, here’s the real information. And here are the opportunities for you. We’re not saying don’t go to university. We’re saying all of the pathways are open to you. It’s up to you to figure out what’s gonna get you to where you want to go next.

Sam Demma (09:06):
Love it. Absolutely love it. And if you were to try and con you know, not convince, but trying to educate students about the upper opportunity that exists in, in the trades, like how do you paint them that picture? You know, go ahead and paint that picture now.

Dave Barrett (09:20):
Oh, I’m gonna give you the two minute version then. All right. So the first thing I talk about is in the skilled trades is the money. So when you become a registered apprentice, you have to be paid. There’s no free apprenticeships. So you have to be paid in a block release situation. You’re going to be paid for about a year. Then you’re gonna get a letter in the mail that letter’s gonna say, it’s time for you to go to trade school. Most trade schools are at community colleges. You’re gonna pick the college that you wanna go to. So if aunt milli lives in Ottawa, you can say, I want to go to the Ottawa college that offers my program, cuz I can live with aunt milli for nothing perfect. You don’t apply the ministry of labor training and skills development phones. The college buys your seat and pays 90% of your tuition.

Dave Barrett (10:04):
Most apprentices pay about $500 whenever they go to trade school, wow, you finish trade school. You go back to work. The interesting part is, before you go to trade school, you’ve been working for a year. You qualify for employment insurance. So right before to go to trade school, you and your employer will go to the employment office. Your employer will lay you off. You get fast tracked onto employment insurance. So you get paid while you’re going to trade school. And if you need it, there’s living allowance. There’s mileage allowance and there’s childcare allowance. If you have to put kids in daycare in order for you to attend, this is usually the part where I see parents elbowing their students going. You should look at this. So this is the way apprenticeship works. Block release. There’s some other ones where you can continue to work. And then you go to school in the evenings.

Dave Barrett (10:50):
And one Saturday, a month, my nephew did one where he worked the first three, four weeks of the month. And then the last week of every month, he went to Trey aid school. So there’s variations, but most of them are like that. So this is an opportunity for students to get in. And if you read the papers and the statistics, there is a skilled trade shortage and this isn’t just Ontario, Canada, north America. This is a worldwide issue. So if you wanna stay local in the skilled trades, you can, if you wanna, and locally, you can do that. If you wanna see your country, you can do your skilled trades and your ticket can get you across the country. If you wanna go international, skilled trades can get you there as well. So it opens all kinds of doors. And again, it’s one tool. And the argument that I always talk to students about is if you wanna argue with me on smarts, wages knowledge, and you think someone with a university degree is better than someone that has a college diploma is better than somebody that has a, a journey person license.

Dave Barrett (11:48):
I can win the argument in every direction, whether you wanna talk on wage. I know people from university with university degrees that are the smartest people that I know. And I know people with university degrees that are like talking to a bag of hammers. well, it’s the same in the skilled trades. Yeah. I know skilled trades people. Yes. They didn’t go to university, but they’re some of the smartest people you’ve ever and they’ve put in the time to really know their craft and they make all kinds of money and they love what they do. And that’s what I talk to students about is don’t go into this for the money. Don’t go into it just cuz I’m talking to you like that, go into it because you have a passion for it. And if you ask me which one I should get into, I’m gonna correspond right back and say, what do you wanna try next? Cause if you spark an arc and go welding it let’s talk. If you spark an art and go, I hate this. Perfect. Now, you know, don’t become a welder. Let’s go try something else until you figure it out. So there’s my two minute pitch for the skilled trades.

Sam Demma (12:45):
I love it. I love it. Right. It’s the idea that generalizations aren’t okay. It’s like, you know, there are people in the trades who are brilliant. There are also people in the trades who Aren, there are people in university who are brilliant and there’s people in university who are brilliant. exactly.

Dave Barrett (12:58):
No, but it’s perceptions, right? It is. And, and it’s this hierarchy that we’ve somehow built for ourselves. And, and I, I disagree with it and it’s really fun to disprove that I don’t have to pick on anybody, but it’s very easy when we talk salaries, when we taught knowledge. One of the things I just added two years ago to my presentation is science, technology engineering and mathematics. Stem is huge in education right now. Well stem, the skilled trades is where stem hits the road. Cause if you don’t understand OMS law and boils law, you’re not gonna do well in the skilled trades, particularly in welding and electrical engineers are the ones that draw the drawings who takes those drawings and actually builds them skilled trades people. They have to understand engineering, mathematics, PHA, and theorem. Oh, they used to throw that on the chalkboard.

Dave Barrett (13:46):
And I go, oh, when am I ever gonna use this in my life? Become a carpenter. That’s how you square wall 3, 4, 5, come on man. That’s and it’s just making those connections that you can actually do it. So that’s, you know, mathematics, perimeters volumes just had a friend of mine complaining about the, they had to completely redo their plumbing cuz their plumber couldn’t do the math. It’s important that you know these things and it’s not for somebody that doesn’t do well in the classroom. They have to understand what they’re getting into. And one, they have the passion, the math, the engineering, the science technology all makes sense. That’s awesome. Plus we use really cool equipment in the skill trades like

Sam Demma (14:24):
Yep. I’ve heard stories even in my own high school of kids repairing a teacher’s car and then getting to drive around the block. And that? Not that this is what happens

Dave Barrett (14:32):
Everywhere. No, they, oh no, that never happens. But yeah, exactly. You know, and the in it’s really cool. Like I looked, I visited a training center locally and they had what were called dark rooms and inside the dark rooms were mill rights and boiler makers who were operating robots inside nuclear vaults, I’m going and they had to be skilled trades people in order to do this. So you’re using the coolest equipment and their supervisors were flying drones around to do the inspections. I mean, what a great, you know, so gaming skills when mom and dad said, Hey, your gaming skills will never Mount to anything, get into the skilled trades. You might just find out they will

Sam Demma (15:08):
Buy some drones.

Dave Barrett (15:09):
exactly fly drones, working robots, real ones. Yeah. It’s kind of cool.

Sam Demma (15:13):
So how did you get into this position? Tell me more about your journey through education yourself. So

Dave Barrett (15:19):
I like, as I said, I was I was working in community economic development and I did, you know, again, I got bored after I was there for 12 years, but I started to do a lot of work with my, a local school boards. So the person who was in the Ontario youth apprenticeship program position was retiring and I’d done a lot of work with her and she said, you should apply for my job. And I’m going look at my resume. There is no way, but I applied anyway. And I had worked with some of the people that were on the hiring team and they said, yeah, let’s take a shot. And that’s worked out really well. So I’m actually not a teacher. Mm-Hmm I come to the position from industry, but I’ve worked in the auto industry, construction industry. I, you know, did some work in manufacturing.

Dave Barrett (16:03):
So all of these things culminated in my position and I think it’s, I’ve got a passion for it. And again, you talk about percept, you come into it and I hear this kids today, baloney kids, they are more engaged. They’re they’re the same as I was when I was there. They just look funny. I look funny to the generation ahead of me. Yeah. They look funny to me, but talking with them and especially when they get a passion for culinary, we run a culinary program. It’s fun to talk to them cuz they know, know their craft and they can’t wait to get into the industry. And that’s, that’s what I love about this position.

Sam Demma (16:37):
Someone recently told me experience comes from age is, you know, is not true. It’s experience comes from experience. And I would also argue experience. Doesn’t also come from a paper, you know, sometimes it comes from experience and you know exactly the fact that you’ve worked in all the different, like various, you know, industries in the field that are the same fields that these kids are gonna get into, gives you the opportunity to give people a very clear picture of each and every one of them. Right. Exactly. And

Dave Barrett (17:05):
That’s it. I bring that, that perspective to it that I didn’t, I couldn’t read in a book or I lived it. So I, I can honestly say here’s what I experienced and here’s how I overcame it, whether I needed to overcome it or not. And, and I, I do think that is valuable. It’s, it’s interesting because in my presentation I actually took that piece out about my, my pathway and all the teachers said, put it back in. That’s the part where the kids went, this guy’s credible. Yeah. So I, I talk about my own faults, my own indecisions, my own bad decisions and my own good decisions. And, and through that they go, okay. Yeah. I, he still, he looks like he’s doing all right. And he’s still living his life. So carry on. Exactly.

Sam Demma (17:47):
Yeah. That’s awesome. And how do you approach a student who is in class and is, or who’s coming to you and, and telling you Dave? I have absolutely no idea what I wanna do with my life. like, I feel like that’s a common conversation you probably have with students.

Dave Barrett (18:02):
And it’s, I, I go back to what I said or what do you wanna try next? So have you been to my events? Have you tried? And, and if some of the things that we’ve created with our local partners is I shops are expensive to run. So they’re only in our high schools. So elementary students don’t have a chance to be exposed to them, but we live in a day and age where technology rules. So I’ve got welding simulators, I’ve got an excavator simulator, I’ve got all kinds of dexterity challenges. I’ve got robots and things like that, that we take into the elementary schools and we let those students try these things. And what I find cool about that is you see students who are, you know, not the athlete, not the academic, all of a sudden excelling in their grade seven, eight class.

Dave Barrett (18:47):
And they’re going, how, how do you know how to do that? Because they’re the hands on learners that have been building stuff since they were four, but this gives them the chance to try it. And once they try it, then we start having the conversations about what parts of, of skilled trades do you like. And, and that’s how we sort of build that model. So when I have the conversation with students, it it’s more around, okay, how can I help you try some of these things? So I’ve, I’ve had, you know, you’re right. I, not long ago I had a student who wasn’t sure if you wanted to be a carpenter or a chef and I’m kind of going, okay, we have some work to do here, cuz that’s pretty diverse. Yeah. but let’s, let’s talk about trying stuff. And what is it you like about this and what is like about that?

Dave Barrett (19:32):
And then we built them from there and they’re actually in my level one cook program right now. Cause they that’s awesome. They kind of decide. And I said, at the end of it, if you, if you hate the level one cook program, you get the end of the day going, this isn’t for me. Perfect. Now, you know, didn’t cost you dime. You’re just gonna be stuck cooking Easter dinner and Thanksgiving for the rest of your life. But other than that, you can go become a carpenter. Now, you know, that’s it’s you got some great skills.

Sam Demma (19:56):
I, I try and here’s another thing you can Rob, maybe an analogy but I, I, I think of it like career search, like a buffet, right? You go to a buffet and you, you walk around, you take a little bit of everything they have to offer and you go sit down, you eat some of it. And certain foods you hate and you don’t grab that ever again. And other foods you end up loving and you know, you keep going back for those. And it’s like the same with trades, the same with jobs, any anything in life. It’s like, you figure out what you love doing, not by theory, but by doing the thing, you know,

Dave Barrett (20:28):
Consider that stolen. I love that’s you’re you nailed it. That’s a, exactly what it is, is keep trying stuff. And I, and I talked to the students that way. I said, your job is the students to try everything you can in the next four to five years, that’s your job. And then from there, you’ll sort of maybe figure it out and be honest. When you, when I talk about my career pathway, I was probably close to 30 before I kind of nailed it. Yep. Cause I’d done construction. I’d done healthcare. I’d done manufacturing. I’d done. These other things went, eh, no, no. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I got into community stuff and I went, Hmm, this makes sense to me. And then workforce development and guiding people to, to careers and helping my community grow. And I went, yeah, I really like this. And then that’s, that’s where I went from there. But it took a while to get there. Remind me, don’t be afraid of

Sam Demma (21:15):
That. Remind me how many years you’ve been in the OYAP position, helping students, you know, figure out different pathways.

Dave Barrett (21:21):
I just started my 10th year.

Sam Demma (21:24):
If you could go back to year one, knowing what, you know, being in this role for 10 years, what would you have told year, Dave?

Dave Barrett (21:31):
Honestly I would’ve said try more stuff, make more mistakes. Mm. Keep trying, keep trying I, some of the programs that came that we’re doing now that are really successful, I really wish I would’ve started them earlier. And a lot of them came from just doing so a good example. We had, we had young women’s events where I would get a couple schools. We’d, you know, they’d pick young women to get on a bus and we’d take them to different industries just to see what they were like. And I thought, well, geez, aren’t I hero? I had 40 young ladies on a bus and we took them into the auto industry, the agricultural industry and these different ones. We talk skilled trades. And then my colleague said, well, why don’t we just do this at their high schools? And that way they can all come.

Dave Barrett (22:18):
Geez. That makes sense. So we started doing young women’s nights where the students would come. We’d allow them to invite their favorite aunt, their mother, their, you know, best friend to come with them. And then we put them into the welding shop and then into the auto shop and we’d circulate them around. And all of a sudden we were having 80 and 90 young ladies trying to skill trades at nine of our high schools. And we’re going, okay, this is better. Well, that’s that kind of grew. But that only happened in the last, before the pandemic three years of the first five years, we weren’t doing it. So it’s stuff like that. Where I’m I like trying stuff. I don’t let the bureau bureaucracy get in the way. Let’s try it. We pilot it, make all of our mistakes and then run with it.

Sam Demma (23:03):
That’s awesome. Love that this has been a exciting conversation. It’s already been 25 minutes time flies in when you’re having a good chat. But if another educator is listening, wants to learn a little more about how they can encourage skill trades and their students, and wants to ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to reach out and get in touch with you?

Dave Barrett (23:22):
If you want to email me: dave_barrett@bwdsb.on.ca. Shoot me an email and I’ll respond. I’ll talk to anybody about skilled trades and events and share anything. I, I think these are great pathways. I don’t think they’re for everyone, but if you are interested in an event or how we do things more than happy to share.

Sam Demma (24:06):
Awesome, Dave. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. Keep up with the awesome work and we’ll

Dave Barrett (24:10):
Talk soon. All right, Sam, thank you so much for the opportunity you take care too,

Sam Demma (24:14):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating view. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Dave

December 27, 2021 by Sam Demma Experiential Learning OYAP Coordinator Student Leadership Student Success 0

Nicole Philp – Consultant, Ministry of Education

About Nicole Philp

Regardless of whether she is teaching ‘Outdoor School’ students how to sleep in a quinzhee during a frigid Saskatchewan winter or working at a desk developing curriculum for the Ministry of Education, Nicole Philp (@Nicole-Philp) believes educators are in the “business of building people.”

The awards Nicole has won for her work with kids and the community are testament to the success she has had in the people-building business. Through coaching kids in sports, advising them on student leadership councils, volunteering with them in their community, paddling with them on the mighty Churchill, and yes, even teaching them in the classroom, Nicole has realized that the critical element to working with kids is building relationships.

Connect with Nicole: Email | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Churchill river canoe trip

Saskatchewan Student Leadership Conference

Ministry of Education – Government of Saskatchewan

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Nicole Philp. Regardless of whether she is teaching outdoor school students, how to sleep in a quinzhee during a Frid, Saskatchewan, winter, or working at a desk development curriculum for the ministry of education, Nicole believes educators are in the business of building people.

Sam Demma (01:02):
The awards Nicole has won for her work with kids and community are testament to the success she has had in the people building business. Through coaching kids in sports, advising them on student leadership councils, volunteering with them in their community, paddling with them on the mighty Churchill, and yes, even teaching them in the classroom, Nicole has realized that the critical elements to working with kids is building relationships.

Sam Demma (01:26):
I hope you enjoy this people building conversation with Nicole Philp, and I will see you on the other side… Nicole, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit more about the work you do with the educators who might be tuning in today?

Nicole Philp (01:45):
Sure. First of all, thank you, Sam. I think what you’re doing with these podcasts is an amazing opportunity for us as teachers to listen into each other’s stories. I think, I think that we learn the best when we learn from each other. And, and so this is just such a, an insightful way of, of sharing people’s stories. So thank you for facilitating all of these and, and for the, the invitation to join you today. A little bit about me, I guess I, I hail from small town, she Saskatchewan with in a community of about 1500 people. I’ve had some great experiences in education over the years, including teaching at a large urban high school of 2000 kids teaching an outdoor school program where I got to travel the province with a Hardy group of great 11 kids who were willing to camp and every kind of weather condition imaginable from hot sun to rain, to snowing and building their snow cleans in January. And, and most recently working in my own community and teaching in a, in a small town of 200 kids in the school. And and I’m now working in a position with the ministry of education in Saskatchewan. So I have a huge passion for education. I’ve been very blessed in my life to have all sorts of different educational experiences and just love working with kids. So that’s a, that’s a bit about me

Sam Demma (03:02):
And, and growing up in your, your own small town, did you have dreams and ambitions to become a teacher or like, you know, as a kid yourself, how did you stumble upon getting into education? How did you choose that path?

Nicole Philp (03:16):
Yeah, funny question. So my mom would tell you that it was just always what I was going to be when I was a kid. I would line my stuffed animals up on the couch and have a little chalkboard, and I would teach my little stuffed animals because my brothers refused to sit and listen to me. So I think teaching and, and working with kids is just kind of always been in my blood. I I’ve always wanted to do it. I, I can’t imagine really doing anything else. I had an older brother who was determined that rather than waste my good marks as he saw it on being a teacher, I should go and do something that would make me a pile of money and rich, and he would live off my coattails and, and that just didn’t interest me. I, I really only ever wanted to be in a school.

Sam Demma (04:00):
Hmm. That’s amazing. And did you have educators along the journey that confirmed your own desire and told you, Hey, Nicole, you know, when you, when you grow up, you should consider getting into teaching.

Nicole Philp (04:12):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s a great question. I actually have kind of, I see him as a mentor. He was my middle years math teacher. And as an adult now, he is still a volunteer in the community. He has probably more provincial titles as a coach for hockey and baseball and, or softball and, and different sports than anyone I’ve ever met. And, and he’s just become kind of a mentor to me. And, and I bring him up not only an answer to your, but also because he’s kind of coined a phrase for me that I always have in the back of my head. And he talks about teaching and coaching as being in the business of building people. Mm-Hmm. And I just, I love that phrase because it encounters exactly what I think our role is. Educators is yes. We’re there to teach curriculum. Yes. We’re there to you, you know, help kids kind of get through the academic part of life. But if we can even a tiny bit contribute to building the people that they’re becoming and, and the people that they’re gonna be to contribute to our society, then gosh, what a humbling experience for us is teachers to be a part of that. So, yeah. So, so certainly I, I have a mentor that I definitely think of and answer to that question. And, and that’s why building people…

Sam Demma (05:28):
And how do you think you build people in the classroom? Like I, I’m curious to, if you could go back to when you were a student, did you have any teachers as well during that time that, you know, poured into you that had a big impact on your self belief, your confidence or your own just, you know, journey through school as a kid mm-hmm and if so, like what did they do for you that made an impact and a difference that allowed you to build yourself as a kid in their class?

Nicole Philp (05:54):
Well, I think building people can only happen if you first build relationships. I don’t think that you can start creating any kind of development unless you first have that foundation of trust and, and a relationship with the kids that you’re working with, or, or as a kid with the teacher that you’re, that you’re working with in the classroom. And so I, I really think that that is the foundation of all of it that you have to make yourself vulnerable too, as an educator, in order for kids to see that you’re real, you’re authentic, you are in a sense, one of them still learning and growing on this, on this journey. And, and I think that making yourself real and authentic and vulnerable with kids helps them trust you in a sense and helps kind of build that beginning, found that will then flourish and grow into something where we can start that work on, on building people.

Nicole Philp (06:44):
And that was certainly the case for me. I, I had several teachers that I would say I recognized as, as just being real with us as students and, and understood them to be someone that existed outside of the classroom too, and in their lives and that they were willing to share their time with us and, and do some volunteer work with us and teach us about serving and giving of ourselves beyond the classroom. All of those things definitely contributed to my trust of them which was then a great modeling experience for me to take when I became a teacher and, and recognized that if I wanted to build those relationships and begin working on that building people business that my mentor talks about I needed to do the same and, and make myself vulnerable and authentic with kids.

Sam Demma (07:30):
I love that. And what do you think like vulnerability looks like in the classroom as a teacher? Is it like, you know, sharing when you’re, when you’re going through good time and bad times, or like, how do you show up vulnerably as an educator?

Nicole Philp (07:43):
Yeah, and easier for some than others, for sure. And I, and I think it also looks different for some than others. For me, it’s, it’s absolutely that it’s sharing with kids. What’s kind of going on. If I’m having a rough day, I, I certainly don’t mind letting them know, and yet I will also do my best, never to let that impede what’s going on in the classroom. Right. But I think kids need to know and understand that that it’s okay to have those Fs and downs and, and work through them and talk about them and, and experience them, not just kind of box it in. There are certainly lots of kids sitting in our classroom that are going through things that we never know about because they don’t talk about it. And, and nor will they, unless they recognize that it’s okay to do so. And it’s, and it’s a safe place and a trusting place to do that. So yeah, just kind of being willing to be outside of your, your comfort zone and, and share stuff, kids, and, and ensure that then it becomes a safe place for them to share it with you.

Sam Demma (08:45):
That’s awesome. So take me back to yourself, you know, you finish high school, you got teachers, I’m assuming teachers college. So after teachers college, what did the path look like for you throughout education? Like bring me through the various roles you worked and also where you started and where you are now.

Nicole Philp (09:04):
Sure. Yeah. So I graduated a bit early, so I ended up looking for a position right after Christmas, when, when I was done university. And I was fortunate enough to, to land a physician at the, the biggest high school in Saskatchewan. So, like I said, I’m from a town of 1500 people, and I was walking into my first day of work in a school that had over 2000 kids in it. So to say I was overwhelmed and feeling a little bit out of my league is to put it lightly. I remember just like I knew one way to get to my classroom and that building from my car. And I would only take that one way through the same hallway, same doors until I was confident enough in myself to get lost in the maze of hallways of such a large school.

Nicole Philp (09:52):
But what an experience, because as a first year teacher, I was surrounded by, at that time I was teaching just math and I was surrounded by about 12 other math teachers. So all of that experience and, and knowledge and wisdom to learn from and build on was just phenomenal for my kind of professional development. And then while I was at that school it became kind of known that I had this passion for the outdoors and passion for adventures and that kind of thing. So I got invited to co-teach an outdoor school program which I alluded to before. And so we had 11 grade 11 students that would apply for it from kind of all over the division. And and we would count from September till till January. And they would learn math as we were pedaling a Churchill, and they would learn English and we’d read poetry.

Nicole Philp (10:40):
We’re sitting around the fire somewhere down in grassland, national parks, Saskatchewan. And, you know, it was just in terms of place based learning and, and inquiry kind of learning. It was the most incredible experience for those kids and for myself. And then, and then from there, I, and ended up getting, you know, pregnant with my first child and I couldn’t be on the road like that. So I applied for a position in my own small town, so I wouldn’t be commuting and I wouldn’t be traveling. And, and I was very fortunate to get it and spent the next 10 years just teaching in my community, which I, I can’t speak enough about that. I just being able to work with the kids in your community and, and the biggest piece for me during that experience has been making the connections between school and community I’m

Nicole Philp (11:27):
So such a believer, I guess, in, in the phrase that it not only takes a village to raise a child as the old saying goes, but I think it takes a village to educate one. And so during my time teaching in my community, I, I made every effort I possibly could think of to either bring the community into the school so that my kids were learning from people who are, who are better than me. People who know more and people who can speak to different things in, in a way that I can’t, and then also taking the kids out into the community in that reciprocal relationship and, and teaching them about what does the community I offer and, and who is doing the work that makes this community such a great place. And having them learn about about the different people and the amount of work that goes into creating this sense of community. So, for me, it was working in my own community was really about that opportunity to build relationships between the school and the community.

Sam Demma (12:22):
That’s amazing. And did you grow up with a passion for the outdoors, or is that something you developed when you started teaching?

Nicole Philp (12:30):
Yeah, yeah. A bit of both. So, I mean, I’m a true farm kid. I grew up riding in grain trucks with my parents when I was little and, and certainly, you know, working with cattle and horses and all that kind of stuff, and definitely a, a true farm kid who spent most of my time outside. And when I wasn’t working on the farm, I was building forts in the Bush. So that kind of thing. But in terms of like these survivalistic type of camping experiences, I had a, a friend whose family did this every year and they invited me on my first Churchill river canoe trip when I was about 15 years old and never looked back. That was always, always my thing. So yeah, it, to be able to incorporate that into my teaching and, and to teach while something that I’m so passionate about. I mean, it’s just a huge highlight of my career, so yeah, definitely, definitely a lifelong passion for sure.

Sam Demma (13:23):
And, you know, at some point you also started getting heavily involved in student activities and student leadership. What, what, when did that happen for you and what kind of pushed you in that direction?

Nicole Philp (13:35):
So, I mean, it started for me when I was in high school myself and I was fortunate enough to be part of a, a very active student council and we attended all sorts of provincial leadership conferences. So it was for me, just kind of a no brainer that as soon as I became a teacher, I would definitely get involved in that kind of leadership activity counsels and that kind of thing. And so I did right away when I started at, at this large urban high school in, in prince Albert and had some great mentors to learn from in terms of how to be an advisor of a, of a large student council. And then brought that experience when I came to, came to she and came to teach my own community. And, and certainly this is where that kind of sense of community and student leadership kind of relationship building with community really flourished.

Nicole Philp (14:26):
The community has just been so embracing of everything that the student leadership council ever wanted to attempt or, or try or do in terms of eat hockey tournaments, to having a mud pit where the kids just like get down and dirty into this mud pit and wrestling. And it’s just a blast to yeah, to hosting a relay for life. We had this amazing group of kids that decided they were going to, they were gonna do their own relay for life in Shere which is normally done just in large centers. And they raised over $14,000 the first year they did it in a, in a community of 1500 kids. It’s, it’s pretty incredible. So it’s just a Testament to how embracing this community is of the work that the kids are trying to do. And again, it just goes back to that sense of relationships, right. And, and seeing that the kids are serving and are, are wanting to serve this community they just, yeah. Support that wholeheartedly, which is an incredible.

Sam Demma (15:25):
That’s so cool. And doing the relay for life in such a small town and having such a large impact is a test meant to how a small group of kids or a small group of people in general can really make a difference, which is like, yeah, such an awesome story. And then how did things transition? I know you, you moved and started working with the ministry of education as well. What did that transition look like and what does the work you’re doing now kind of, how does it differ from what you were doing previously into schools?

Nicole Philp (15:53):
Yeah, that’s a, that’s a tough one to answer for me in a sense that this was not a job change that I was looking for. I was loving the work that I was doing in my community and in my school and, and with the kids that I was teaching and working with. So it was not an easy decision for me, but I received a phone call in the summer of 2019 with an offer for this subcontinent position, with the ministry to do some work around the province with school community councils. And after a lot of soul searching and a lot of conversations with my family, we decided, you know what, let’s, let’s give this a try. So I, I took that opportunity and, and wow, what experience I got to travel to 27 different school divisions in the province and meet with their parents and community members and people who are just so invested in education and wanting the best for their kids.

Nicole Philp (16:45):
Mm. And so to listen to those conversations and to hear the different points of view and different perspectives from small towns to urban centers and the different needs and the different challenges people are facing that was just such an incredible experience for me, that I certainly don’t regret making that decision. And now the work I’m doing is just giving me such a, a wider view of education in general. I, you know, I’ve worked urban and I’ve worked in rural and I’ve worked in this outdoor school program, but to see education kind of from that provincial level and from a, a different perspective and see the work that kind of goes on behind the scenes has also been incredible. I do see myself going back to the classroom. I desperately miss kids. Mm-Hmm, , I often have a group of kids around my kitchen table, actually, whether they’re coming for math help or just coming for lunch, cuz we wanna have a catch up visit or, or whatever it might be. We’re currently actually planning a Halloween activity. So yeah, I just, I miss kids, I miss working with kids and, and I know that that’s really where I need to get back to, but this has been just kind of a, a really neat break in the career and a different experience to, to build myself as a, an educator when I go back.

Sam Demma (17:57):
That gives you more holistic viewpoint or perspective.

Nicole Philp (18:00):
Right. It really does. Yeah.

Sam Demma (18:02):
Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s so cool. And if you could travel back in time and speak to on year one of teaching, knowing what you know now and having a different perspective, like what advice would you give your younger self or any of the educators listening who might be in their first few years of teaching?

Nicole Philp (18:21):
I think I would tell myself you can’t do it all. Hmm. And, and so I’m, I’m one of those type a personalities. And I like when I have a, a plan or a vision, I like to make sure that it’s all done and it’s all done. Right. and, and yet there’s so many negative repercussions for that. Kids, you, you, you build people a lot, a lot better if you allow them to do the work and if you allow them to make the mistakes and if you allow them to grow from all of that. And so when I first started in student leadership and started doing some of those activity planning events and, and that kind of thing, I would try to always kind of have my thumb on all of the different components and make sure that everything was being done.

Nicole Philp (19:00):
And, and and as an organizer, you need to do that to some extent, there’s, there’s no doubt about it. You don’t really want your kids to fail, but but yeah, I re remember there were things that I would do and I would just try and make sure that I was kind of covering all of it. And, and so that’s definitely something that I would have, I would like to tell myself now let it go because kids can do amazing things and, and you need to trust them. And yeah, you need to let them learn from, from the different things that happen when they’re playing, learning these kinds of events and, and involved with community and, and they’re all great learning experiences.

Sam Demma (19:36):
Love that. That’s great. Last piece of advice. Nicole, thank you so much for taking some time outta your data. Come on the show and share your perspectives and your stories. If there is an educator listening, who’s feeling inspired or intrigued in any way, what would be the best way for them reach out to you and get in touch for a conversation?

Nicole Philp (19:55):
Hmm. Great question. I’m on Facebook looking me up on Facebook. Can you shoot me an email or a text? I love to love to chat with other educators and, and learn from them. Like I said, that’s what I’ve thoroughly enjoyed about your podcast. I’ve just gotten so many ideas and chatted, so many notes to on as I’ve listened to different people and their experiences and what they’ve done with kids and where they’ve, their imagination has taken them. So yeah, this is just such a, a neat opportunity for all of us.

Sam Demma (20:22):
Awesome. I’ll put your email in the show notes so people can find it if they’re interested in shooting you a note. But yeah. Thank you again so much. This has been great. We’ll stay in touch and keep up it work.

Nicole Philp (20:32):
Fantastic. Thanks Sam. And likewise, have a great day.

Sam Demma (20:36):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Nicole

December 26, 2021 by Sam Demma Education Consultant Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Kirstin Johnson – Vice President of Competitive Events, Family, Career and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA)

About Kirstin Johnson

Kirstin Johnson joins the National Executive Council with six years of FCCLA experience. Previously, she served as the Washington State Vice President of Competitive Events and Washington State Vice President of Region 7. During her time in FCCLA, she has also competed in five different STAR Events, each of which earned gold at the national level.

Outside of FCCLA, Kirstin is involved in Knowledge Bowl, Running Start, Youth Group, and volleyball. She enjoys fishing, creating art, and spending time outside with friends, family, and animals. After high school, Kirstin plans to pursue a career as a midwife.

Connect with Kirstin: Email | Instagram | Website

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Career and Technical Student Organizations (CTSO)

Family, Career and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA)

FCCLA Star Events (Competitive events)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s interview is very special because it’s not with an educator, but actually a student. Kirstinjohnson is the national vice president of competitive events with FCCLA, family career and community leaders of America. Kirstin joined the national executive council with six years of FCCLA experience previously. She served as the Washington state vice president of competitive events and Washington state vice president of region seven. During her time in FCCLA, she has also competed in five different star events. Each of which earned gold at the national level. Outside of FCCLA, Kirstin’s involved in the knowledge bowl, youth group and volleyball. She enjoys fishing, creating art and spending time outside with friends, family, and animals. After high school Kirstin plans to pursue a career as a midwife.

Sam Demma (01:05):
I hope you enjoy this conversation with Kirstin. I hope it gives you some insights into how teachers impacted her student leadership experience. And I will see you on the other side, Kirsten, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. I’m super excited to chat with you. Why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself and just share a little bit about who you are with the educators and the audience who might be tuning in today.

Kirstin Johnson (01:33):
Awesome. Yes. Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. My name is Kirstin Johnson. I’m a senior in the small town of Kititas, Washington. I’m 17 years old. And this year I’m serving as the vice president of competitive events for family career and community leaders of America. FCCLA is a student leadership organization. It’s a career technical student organization with family as its central focus. We use skills. Our members use skills from family and consumer sciences classes to develop and implement projects, to impact their communities and all sorts of places at this regional state and national level. We use our personal power to make a difference to empower others. We grow as leaders and we prepare our members for college and careers as they go out leaving high school and beyond it’s a new ball game and try to help make sure they’re as ready as they possibly can be.

Kirstin Johnson (02:28):
I got involved in FCCLA really early on. So most schools are gonna be ninth through 12th grade, but some schools are fortunate to offer middle school chapters for family career and community leaders in America. And my school did, we offered a sixth grade chapter and I heard about it, my neighbor, nice. I went over to their house and honestly, it’s kind of a funny story. I got involved cause I wanted to go to Disneyland. Just short and sweeter. I went over to my neighbor’s house and she wasn’t there. I was like, okay, where’s Annie. And my name was, oh, she’s in, she’s in California. Why is Annie in California? And your whole family is here. She went for school. Hang on, hang on. How did Annie get to go to California for school? Yeah. Oh, she’s going with her FCCLA chapter.

Kirstin Johnson (03:15):
And I turned to my mom. I don’t know what that is, but I wanna do it. Okay. I guess so. And so the first day of sixth grade, I walked into my Nowad advisor’s classroom and I said, Hey, are you the person who does FCCLA said, yeah, can I do it too? Yeah, it it’s a lot of work. Are you sure? Yep. I’m in. I wanna go to Disneyland we don’t always go to Disneyland. You know that right. I didn’t, but I still wanna do it. Okay. And so that year I kind of just threw myself into deep end. I started with my first star event, which saw our events, Stanford students taking action with recognition. And my event was environmental ambassador at the time. And I peer educated elementary and middle school students on the importance of composting. And I taught them how to make compost men.

Kirstin Johnson (04:03):
And I loved it. I had a blast. And from there I kind of realized, Hey, this, this isn’t so bad. I can make a difference. I can speak up. And I I’m just, I’m one person. I am a sixth grader, heck, before I started this, I could barely just talk in front of anyone. And now I’ve got the, to actually insight change. I wanna keep doing this. And so then I got involved with student body government and I continued to get involved in my school. I was team captain for multiple sports teams and I just kind of kept the ball rolling. And every year I just kept coming back to FCCLA a and getting involved with office was kind of a different story.

Kirstin Johnson (04:42):
It was more of a slow climb where I met. It was less of a dive right in. Yeah. A lot of people, I was fortunate enough to run for national office last summer, which is why I’m hearing now and talking to a lot of people, I got to hear their stories and it was amazing to hear everyone’s stories. It felt like everyone had this aha moment. Like they saw the national walk officers walk out on stage and they’re like, that’s gonna be me. They’re so cool. And that was not what happened with me. It was, I guess I could do a star event and then I did it and it wasn’t so bad. I guess I could do a skill demonstration event. Hey, that went pretty well too. Maybe I’ll do chapter office and then low and behold, it worked out. But I saw the state officers on stage, no way.

Kirstin Johnson (05:33):
These people are crazy. Who would wanna talk in front of 800 people? That’s way too many and then my advisor, Hey, one of our candidates dropped out for state office. No. Okay. Maybe. And I came in with the application the next day and then we were good. And then it was, I believe it was last summer. We’re talking. So you’ve got a little qualifications now, do you wanna run for national office? I mean, I guess I could. I know I can make a difference. I guess I’ve got the skills to do it. It’s a matter of finding out if it’s a good fit, I’ll run and I’ll see what happens. And that, that was kind of how every step of my journey went. And I think it’s probably a pattern I’ll continue to follow. Cause I’m not really a, I’m a go-getter, but I don’t like to feel like I’m out of my depth, if that makes sense. And FCCLA has really helped me figure out where my personal strengths are and where I can actually succeed with that mindset. And it’s helped me to figure out you don’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to know everything going into it to actually step into a successful leadership role. And that’s kind of how I got started and how I’ve been involved and how I’ve stayed.

Sam Demma (06:47):
Where do you think your next, I guess I will, is gonna take you in life. Like where, where do you kind of foresee yourself going in the future?

Kirstin Johnson (06:55):
Great question. Right now I’m looking at attending university and I want to be a midwife. I wanna be part of making women feel loved, cared for and safe during every step of pregnancy birth and postpartum care. Especially I think that’s really important. I feel like right now in our world, a lot of the times women feel like their numbers just being pushed right in and right out of a hospital. They’re like, get in, get it done and get out, have fun taking your baby home. And I want women to make sure that they’re, they feel loved. They feel prepared. I want someone when that baby is crying and they’re just trying to use the bathroom alone because they’re overwhelmed. I want someone I wanna be able to, to help them and just hold the baby. It’s okay. Take a deep breath. Or you’ve got this. I want, I want, wanna be there to support them. And I, so right now I’m applying to colleges and I’m hoping to be on the right track to succeed in that career field.

Sam Demma (07:47):
That’s so cool. And let’s go back to your, that first day you walk into your advisor’s class, you know, that was the start of a relationship that you probably didn’t even realize you were gonna build and have for the next couple of years. Can you me more about, you know, what your advisor did for you that had such a positive impact on your life and, you know, got you involved in leadership because other educators might be listening, thinking. I wish my students were just as you know, interested in motivated as Kirstin.

Kirstin Johnson (08:14):
Yeah. Mrs. USY. So I’ve had the pleasure of working with her. Now this is our seventh year together and she’s just amazing. She is one of the kindest, most caring, most dedicated individuals I’ve ever met. I love her so much. It was definitely an interesting relationship at the start because I was terrified of her. I was so scared. She kind of has this reput of being the big, bad, scary teacher at our school. Cuz she’s strict with her deadlines. She has a very type, a way of getting things done and it works, but it can be overwhelming, especially as a sixth grader, who’s used to just elementary work and kind of pushing things off to the side. And then you hop in, whoa, I gotta, I gotta do stuff now. And she doesn’t take too kindly to just slacking off. And so it was a lot at first and I’m gonna be honest.

Kirstin Johnson (09:07):
I hardly talked to her probably the first year. And then the second year I had her in class she’s I would go up to ask her questions about FCCLA, Mrs. USY can you help me with no, I have heard you talk with your friends way louder. You can speak up. I know you got that confidence and it was little things that she helped me with and she really, she believed in me when I didn’t believe in myself, she saw potential that I didn’t know I had. And I think that’s something that really amazing teachers are really good at is seeing the potential in students. And she going back to that dedicated part. I was kind of a train wreck as a sixth grader. Anyone who knew me can attest and I, I was clutsy. I was a mess. I was all over the place.

Kirstin Johnson (09:59):
And so I had no idea what I was doing. I wrote my speech for my first competitive event, the night it, or the day it was due, what I had to finish the project the night before. And she stayed with me till 1230 at night in the school helping me make sure I got it done because she wanted to, he succeed, even though I probably had not done enough to deserve to succeed at that point in time, she believed I could. And she made me believe that I could and together we were able to accomplish that. And it’s been like that through our whole relationship. It’s been, I, I didn’t know if I could do it. And she was there to push me and she was there when I failed. She was there with love and support and encouragement and also like, Hey, this is how we gotta get it right the next time it wasn’t just a, oh, we’ll do better.

Kirstin Johnson (10:47):
It was like, Hey, we can work through this and we can grow from this. And she’s just always been that person. And I’m, I’m so grateful to have worked with her. And I mean, to be working with her still, she’s just one of the most amazing people. I’m I’m sorry. I did this at state too. I tell she won the national spirit of advising award, which she totally deserves and our teammates one, my teammate and I, we had to speak about her at our state conference and we were both bawling by then. I, I’m just honored to say that I’ve worked with her and she has changed my life in more ways than I could probably say.

Sam Demma (11:29):
Ah that’s so, ah, that’s so kind she sounds like an amazing leader, you know, and an amazing human being and I’m, I mean, I’m curious to know, like what do you think makes a great leader? What do you think makes a great student leader?

Kirstin Johnson (11:45):
I think this is a really open-ended question and I’d love that. And I think it’s a hard one to put into a mold because a leader can be so many different things. It can depend on the role you’re trying to succeed in. It can be who you’re trying to lead, what you’re trying to accomplish. And I don’t think you have to fit into a specific box to be a good leader. But I do think there are some things that make a leader really stand out or encourage them to succeed more. I would say one thing that we all learned from the pandemic is that a good leader is adaptable. Cause you never know when this is a really specific and personal situation, but I was packing up to leave for a state leadership conference that I had spent months prepping for the day before I left, it was shut down and we had to plan an entirely virtual state leadership conference in two weeks.

Kirstin Johnson (12:43):
And it was terrifying, but you have to be ready to roll with the punches. Anything can come your way and you have to be ready to take it and adapt and use it. Don’t don’t let it get you down. You have to be ready to use it and see it as a new opportunity to do something different. Cuz if you’re not able to deal with a new situation coming, right, how are you gonna show other people yeah. To deal with that? I think another kind of in the same area is a good leader is optimistic. You can’t really lead anyone and a new direction or an, to an exciting new place. Or so then how do succeed? You’re like, well this sucks. Nothings going on anywhere. It just doesn’t work like that. You need to be forward thinking. You need to be excited to make a difference to pave a new road, to just set your sights on change, to, to set your sights in a new direction.

Kirstin Johnson (13:37):
And I think part of that is just having an optimistic outlook. You don’t have to be a bubbly person. Personally. I am a bubbly person. My nickname has been smiley for a long time cuz I just don’t stop. Yeah. But you don’t have to be a bubbly person. You just need to have a good attitude, good outlook on life. And I think that’s gonna make a lot of difference. And then this is one that I didn’t, I wasn’t super aware of until this summer. And it’s made a huge difference in my life and the way I view others as leaders and myself as a leader and that’s authenticity, a good leader means to be authentic. If you’re trying to fake it till you make it, people are gonna see that people know they see right through that guys. There’s no way that you’re gonna succeed in whatever role that you’re trying to do.

Kirstin Johnson (14:29):
If you’re being someone you’re not, and it’s not gonna be fun if you’re interviewing for a job, if you’re taking on a new role as a leader and you just fake your way through an interview or you’re like, I’m gonna be someone I’m totally not. Cuz I know that this is what the people in this role normally look like. It’s not gonna work because then you’re in a situation that doesn’t work for you. If you’re, if you do your best to be your real, authentic self, as much as possible, you’re gonna end up in situations that fit you, that fit your personality. And you’re gonna end up surrounded with people who fit you and your personality. But if you’re faking it, if you are, I’m so excited to be here, I wanna be an accountant and you don’t wanna be an accountant and then you get to the job and you’re with your coworkers.

Kirstin Johnson (15:18):
I hate my life. What is happening, everyone. It’s not gonna be a good situation for anyone whatsoever. And then, oh good leaders are supportive. Mm. They wanna see other people succeed. They’re not looking to have a title. They’re not looking to be yep. I’m the president of the United States like this, that’s not what they’re going for. A good leader is striving to facilitate the success of others. So you should be supportive and encouraging. And I think that probably goes in hand, hand in hand with the optimistic outlook. But I think all of those together being supportive, adaptable, authentic, and optimistic are some key traits that good leaders exhibit.

Sam Demma (16:05):
Yeah. That makes perfect sense. I absolutely, I absolutely agree. I don’t think , I don’t think you miss point at all. Those are, those are great pieces of advice. And I don’t think that only applies to students as well, you know, for all the educators listening to this right now also think about embodying those four characteristics for your students. Like if I had to guess your advisor probably embodied all four of those things, would, would you agree? Most definitely. Yeah. That’s awesome. Mom. I’m so glad to hear. So what’s the future of, or what’s going on with FCCLA this year and for everyone who’s in Canada and has no clue. Not, not no clue about FCCLA. I know you mentioned it a little bit, but maybe give them a little more of a breakdown on what you guys do every single year. Yeah.

Kirstin Johnson (16:52):
So I’m, I, I completely forgot you guys were in Canada. That’s messing with me. Oh good.

Kirstin Johnson (16:57):
Our organization. We are a CTSO, as I mentioned earlier, which is a career and technical student organization. We prepare students for the real world for college, for the workforce through stem skills, through facts or family and consumer sciences programs. Do you guys have family and consumer sciences in Canada? Do you call it the same thing?

Sam Demma (17:19):
Nah, we don’t. We don’t really have it. It might, it might be family studies or career and civics.

Kirstin Johnson (17:24):
Oh probably. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s your home EC. It used to be home economics back in around the eighties. It’s your learning to meal prep, learning to eat nutritionally, to prepare food, to care for children, to care for families, to learning, to sew, learning like textile stuff, interior design, graphic design, all sorts of anything in your hospitality and tourism, your visual arts and design education and training and hos oh in human services pathways. So sorry, I almost missed one. We set students up specifically for careers in that field, but you can use skills learn in our program in order to succeed in other careers, if that makes sense. Yeah. So really our goal is to make a difference and to develop leadership skills within our students. Nice. We focus on the multiple roles of the family member, the wage earner and community leader, and then students have different opportunities to learn to succeed in these roles.

Kirstin Johnson (18:36):
One of our biggest draws as an organization is competitive events, which as the vice president of competitive events, I’m a little partial to. So we have different event opportunities, star events. As I mentioned earlier, those are kind of a long term project. And students are given a rubric at the beginning of the year and then they with different criteria for each event. So for example, one year I did the chapter service project display event and my partner and I went off the rubric and then created a project that we saw we saw need in community. And that need was the growing number of homeless members of our community. And we were trying to see what we could do as high school, sophomores at the time, that’s a big issue to address, but we used the skills we had to actually make a positive impact. And so we brought in baked goods that we made a, in our family and consumer sciences classroom with our advisor every Sunday.

Kirstin Johnson (19:35):
And we would volunteer for around six hours at the shelter. We would bring in fresh, big pastries. And then we run around all of our community and we collected toiletries and other travel size items because a lot of the times people will hand out goody bags, homeless, and they throw half of it. But away because you have to carry everything you have when you’re in that situation. Yeah. So we didn’t take what you need style almost like a buffet bar, but it was the tree is another items. Yeah. I’m not sure of a better way to describe that. I hope you get a good visual with that. Yeah. And so that away we identified a need and then we address the need within our community. And then one of the main parts of the star meant after you identify a concern form, a goal, set a plan act, and then you follow up.

Kirstin Johnson (20:27):
Those are the steps of our planning process, which we use or encourage members to use to carry out all the, of their projects. And at the end, we create a 10 minute oral presentation along with a huge visual poster board or a portfolio. Some of the speeches vary. They can be five, they can be 10 minutes. And then you present in front of a panel of evaluators who evaluate your project based on the criteria of a rubric I mentioned earlier, and that’s kind of what a star event looks like. And we have more than 30 different events. We have fashion events, we have culinary events. We have all sorts of community based events. We have career investigations, you have the opportunity to explore careers. We have hospitality and tourism promote and publicize FCCLA star events are amazing because there’s something for everyone. And if the event at first glance doesn’t totally fit what you’re looking for, you can make it your own, which I think that’s the beauty of star events.

Kirstin Johnson (21:23):
That’s what, they’re my favorite. And then we have skill demonstration events are a shorter project. Those take leaves in the fall. In fact, our deadline was just a few days ago and they’ll be recognized during our national fall conference in Washington DC here in November. And for those it’s a shorter project and you do events like creed speaking, culinary, knife skills, fashion sketch. So it’s a short term pro project designed to show your ability to create something you’re well demonstrating your skills. Yeah, I guess it’s kind of in the name and we have life smarts knowledgeable, so you can demonstrate your knowledge. Do you guys have knowledgeable in Canada?

Sam Demma (22:06):
It might be something similar by a different name. And I know like the names for everything’s a little different probably, but we probably do. Yeah.

Kirstin Johnson (22:14):
So it’s, it’s like knowledgeable Quizible and then our addition is we have a family, we have a FCCLA additional knowledge category. That’s part of the challenge. There’s FCCLA I believe there’s a hospitality environment, consumer math. I’m pretty sure, but it’s loosely on those areas and students are test on their knowledge and their ability to buzz in it’s NICE’s almost game show. Like it’s a really fun and exciting way to show off your knowledge. And then we have virtual business and fashion challenges online, which are awesome because they’re free events that students can take place partly in and they can win money, which is a great way to support their chapter or their education, whatever they choose to put it to. But those are another way similar to skill demonstration events, where they can demonstrate their skills in order to be recognized. So huge focus is our variety of competitive event opportunities, which allows students to develop their skills, to use the skills they already have and to learn more about their interest areas or to learn more about just different fields in general.

Kirstin Johnson (23:28):
And those are a great way. And we also have a lot of scholarship opportunities through competitive events. We fortunate have to have a lot of new found partnerships that are really, really helping out our students. We had, this is slightly off topic, but it’s one of my favorite FCCLA moments. And I just wanna share it with you. Last year, we had a student, she came up on stage and we recognized the three top competitors on stage the first, second and third place. And she was the only one on stage. The other people weren’t able to attend the conference. We had a hybrid conference at the time because of, of the COVID restrictions. And she stood on stage. She was the only one up there and you could see her face as they announced the third place. It wasn’t her. They announced the second place.

Kirstin Johnson (24:17):
It wasn’t her. And then they went to say first place. And it was a, along with that first place award was a full to scholarship wow. To a fashion Institute. And you just saw, she smiled so wide and she was sobbing on stage. She was so happy. I’ve never seen anyone more happy to be recognized on stage. And you could tell that her dream was coming true. And it was amazing to see someone pour their heart out into a project like that and find that success and find that it really did set them up for that college readiness. Now, I don’t know her story. Maybe she couldn’t afford college. Maybe she could, but it wasn’t the school she wanted to go to. And now she had a full ride scholarship to a school where she wanted to succeed. And then we got to watch her model, the dress that she had created and it was gorgeous and she walked on stage so proud with the biggest smile and it was, it was just so cool. So I think that’s so our competitive event opportunities, scholarship opportunities through that, we set students up very success.

Sam Demma (25:27):
You did a great job explaining it.

Kirstin Johnson (25:31):
Okay! I tend to ramble as long as

Sam Demma (25:34):
No, that was awesome.

Kirstin Johnson (25:35):
So much I could say about FCCLA and what it does for our students, what it does for our communities, not just students, but I, I could go on and on.

Sam Demma (25:46):
Yeah, I think everyone listening is wishing they’re, they’ve been, they could have been a part of an FCCLA chapter. So no, you’ve definitely done a great job. If you could travel back in time to when you were a freshman and give yourself advice. And maybe even when you were younger, like even as a younger student and give yourself advice, knowing what you know now, like what would you have told your younger self?

Kirstin Johnson (26:10):
I think the biggest thing I would say is don’t let fear stand in your way. Mm. As corny as that sounds, it is huge. A lot of the times personally, and in my experience as a high schooler with other high school students, we are afraid. We’re afraid of rejection. We’re afraid of failure. We’re afraid of not looking how we expect other people to think we look on stage or in the classroom. I think fear stops us in our tracks so much. And I would tell my younger self or another younger aspiring leader, don’t be afraid, take leap, join the extracurricular, join the club, start a club, do something. If you want to see change, start it. Don’t let fear get in your way. And on top of that, don’t be afraid to ask for help. I think that’s a huge thing. I’m really guilty of that.

Kirstin Johnson (27:10):
I’m like I was talking about Mrs. UC earlier. I’m thankful that I had an advisor who saw when I was struggling, even when I didn’t ask her help. And she was there, but there are a lot of times in other aspects of my life, in my leadership, but I’ve been too afraid to ask for help because I didn’t wanna look weak or I didn’t wanna seem like I didn’t know what I was doing. I wanted to feel like I had it all together. And I didn’t, and I was afraid to ask for help. And that doesn’t only hurt yourself and your performance, but it hurts as around you, especially if you’re working in a team environment as an officer, a lot of the times you’re in a team of 10 or more people. And when one part of the team is falling apart, everyone falls apart.

Kirstin Johnson (27:48):
So if you have those people around you, if you have teammates, if you have an advisor, if you have a friend, if you have a parent, if you have a teacher, someone around you, don’t be afraid to ask for help. Cuz contrary to popular belief, especially speaking to students, I don’t know, as a 17 year old, I don’t know how much you grow out of it. But a lot of times it can feel like someone’s always off to the side or in the corner waiting for you to trip so they can laugh or just waiting to watch you fail so they can mock you. And I feel like we always have that little nagging voice in the back of our heads. And you just need to, don’t be afraid to ask for help because they’re not there. It’s that nagging voice is in your head.

Kirstin Johnson (28:29):
It’s not the people around you. The people around you want to see you succeed. They want you to make a difference and asking for help is one of the first steps to doing that. Cuz no one’s gonna know you’re struggling unless you say it and you shouldn’t have to have it all figured out. Especially as a student leader, there are things you’re not gonna no, no one prepares you as a freshman to just walk on stage and speak in front of a thousand people. Things are learned. And so you need to be, Hey, I don’t know how to do this. Is there a way I can get better? And so just don’t let fear get in your way. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. And I think if you can overcome those obstacles, it’s gonna give you a lot of room to grow. And I think that’s something I wish people had told me. And I would like to tell other people.

Sam Demma (29:18):
I love that. That’s such a great advice for your younger self and anyone who might be tuning in. I’m curious if someone else is listening to this and is inspired by it at all and wants to, to reach out to you, you know, share anything you’d like in terms of how they can get in touch and ask a question.

Kirstin Johnson (29:33):
Oh, of course, yes. Feel free to email me. All of my contact. My email information is on the FCCLA website. I’d write out my email address, but it’s really long. Cool. and I’d probably spell it wrong talking. You can get ahold of me. I have an Instagram account. You can do Kirstin Johnson, FCCLA. It should come right up. We have Twitter accounts. And then you can also reach out to, if you wanna learn more about the organization, we have all that information on our webpage and you can reach out to our communications department. But if you wanna talk with me specifically, the best way to get ahold of me is gonna be that Instagram account or my email for sure.

Sam Demma (30:13):
Awesome person. Thank you so much again for coming on the show. This has been a huge pleasure. I can’t wait to see what your future holds keep up. It’s great work with FCCLA and we’ll talk soon.

Kirstin Johnson (30:24):
Thank you so much.

Sam Demma (30:26):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Kirstin

December 24, 2021 by Sam Demma Student Leadership Student Success 0

Julie Champagne – Co-Founder at the English Tutor and Teacher

About Julie Champagne

Prior to settling in Toronto, Julie (@TheEngTutor1), an Ottawa native, studied at The University of Ottawa and Queen’s University. She is the Co-founder of the English Tutor as well as a teacher. In her ten years of teaching, Julie has taught everything (except math!) to a variety of age groups in a variety of locations including Kanata, Bradford West Yorkshire, and now at an independent school in midtown Toronto.

A proud Hufflepuff, Julie is an avid Harry Potter fan and has lost count of the number of times she’s read all seven books. Julie lives with her husband, young daughter, and dog named Pepper Potts. She eagerly shares her love of reading with her whole family.

Connect with Melissa: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

The English Tutor

Park Street Education

Blyth Academy school website

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and other special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. you might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Julie Champagne. Prior to her settling in Toronto, she was from Ottawa. She studied at the University of Ottawa and Queens university and in her 10 years of teaching, she has taught everything except for math to a variety of age groups in a variety of locations, including Kanata, Bradford West Yorkshire, and now in an independent school in Midtown, Toronto. Julie and I met when she taught at Blyth academy, which is the private school in Midtown Toronto.

Sam Demma (01:20):
And now because of COVID, she took an entrepreneurial path into teaching, virtually, students from all around the world. She has a company with her business partner, Sam, and they have an amazing venture called the English Tutor. It’s a really interesting idea. They are very energized about the work they’re doing and having a huge impact. She has a ton of wisdom and ideas to share, and I hope you enjoy this interview as much as I enjoyed recording it. I’ll see you on the other side. Julie, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. It’s a pleasure to have you. I know we worked together. I, I wanna say over a year and a half ago now, and it’s really cool to connect with you virtually again. Share with the audience a little bit about who you are and why you initially got into the work you do with young people today.

Julie Champagne (02:07):
Sure. Yeah. Thanks so much. And I I’m so excited to be here. You’re right. It was about a year and a half ago with my foundation’s kids. So I mean, obviously I’m a teacher. I I teach high school primarily and you know, when the world changed, we had to all adapt very, very quickly. So I, I have my own tutoring business now that I own with my co-founder Sam, it’s called the English tutor and we teach kids all over the world, guided reading. And then I also am a middle school teacher with another school called park street. And I guess, you know, why do I do what I do? I, I honestly, I don’t think I could do anything else. I absolutely love my job. There are people let’s say there are jobs and vocations, and I truly feel that teaching for me is a vocation.

Julie Champagne (02:57):
You know, the, the joy I get from planning lessons that really get kids, right. Get them engaged, get them excited about something, especially if they’ve never been excited about something before. I mean, that is such an amazing moment. It’s so wonderful to be there, to be there supporting and talking them through the challenges too. Right. I mean, I do it because the kid like the kids, I not to sound cliche, but the kids are amazing. Right. They’re they’re the future and what they’re doing and who they’re becoming. I love that I can play a small part in that with them.

Sam Demma (03:36):
Yeah, no, it’s so true. And for, for some clarification, I’m not the Sam that she started the English tutor with. If anyone’s wondering no, it’s, it is a different Sam. That being said, you mentioned, you know, getting into teaching, being a V a vocation, and I’m curious to know, at what point in your journey did you decide teaching I’m gonna be a teacher was there a defining moment, a person who pushed you in that direction or when did you know?

Julie Champagne (04:03):
I mean, I think, I think there’s probably a few different things. I don’t know that I necessarily believe in one sort of sign that led me, led me down the path. And I think I probably took a few wrong turns along the way. Yeah. Before I, before I landed you know, but I think one of the primary ones that comes to mind for me is, is my brother mm-hmm . So my brother has what’s called Asperger’s and that’s it’s high functioning autism essentially. And so we’re going back 20 years now. Right? He, he hasn’t been in the school system in, in 10, 15 years. And as a kid I’m older than him and, and as kid, I just watched the school system, let him down. They just didn’t know how to reach him, you know? And to me that meant that the box of education, the box that I had somehow managed to make work for me, you know, I fit that mold somehow some way it wasn’t working for somebody else in my family.

Julie Champagne (05:02):
So it must not be working for everybody. Yeah. And, and I just, I was determined, especially when I got on the path to teachers college and, and my sort of first view teaching posts, I was determined to be the teacher that took the chance. Mm. Right. The teacher that, that said, okay, this box, doesn’t, it doesn’t have to be a box. We can push this. We can push against the constraints that the education field is, is throwing at us. You know, I think we’ve all got one or two teachers in our history that we remember. And if we’re lucky, one of the, one of the ones we remember is because they, they made a difference. Right. They, they pushed us in a really fantastic way. My brother doesn’t have that, you know, like he doesn’t have a teacher like that. And, and I do, I’ve got a couple like that. I’ve got teachers that took the time. And so that’s how I approach my own teaching. And, and it’s certainly when I look back at, you know, how did I get into this? Those are, those are the reasons that come up for me, for sure.

Sam Demma (06:04):
Yeah. That’s awesome. My teacher was Mike Lafa who changed my life, inspired me to go into the community and take his theory of small actions and put it to the test and totally change my life. And fact, I still stay in touch with him, him today. And he was a very principled man very alike, my own grandfather who taught me that if there’s a will, there’s a way. And you know, you are a perfect example of that. You were just telling me how as school was reopening. You made the decision, you know, I’m gonna fill a need here and make this work. And you were teaching at late hours. Can you share a little more about the English tutor and how it actually got formed and what it is today?

Julie Champagne (06:43):
Sure. Yeah. So my co-founder Sam when the school systems shut down all over the world, I mean, just absolutely wild. We started teaching these guided reading English courses to students in China. Mm. So we would be up at just ungodly hours, you know, five, six in the morning. And then again at eight o’clock or nine o’clock at night teaching these kids English and in a way it was, it was just so amazing and so wonderful to be doing this, but then we thought, how do we take this further? How do we really make this meaningful for the kids? So it’s not just a, it’s not just a bandaid for COVID, but legitimately something that they’re gonna get out of it. And we decided why not just read them books that are in their age level. Right. And, and not necessarily comprehension wise, you know, like they’re gonna struggle a little bit with a Royal doll text, but let’s break it down for them.

Julie Champagne (07:43):
Let’s create these beautiful resources that lead them through reading these books with us. Mm. You know, and so we’ve done all kinds. We’ve done Royal doll, we’ve done Charlotte’s web. Sam’s working her way through Harry Potter right now with her kids done nonfiction units and poetry units. I’m doing a nonfiction course at the moment with kids in Shanghai. Nice. so it’s been really, really incredible. And it’s been such an amazing thing for Sam and I to witness the equalizer that is a child. Mm. Right. All kids, it doesn’t matter. Culture, language, kids are kids. And, and they find the same things funny, and they they’re challenged by the same things. And so reaching a whole new set of kids has been super, super amazing and definitely a silver lining to COVID because it led us to form our, our business. And then when the school shut down here in, in Ontario, you know, we, we had, I think something like 200 hours worth of content worth of teaching content.

Julie Champagne (08:52):
And I happened to I happened to teach one of my grade 11 students. His mom is the CEO of the big brothers, big sisters organization in Toronto. Oh, cool. And so I reached out to her and I said, listen, like we have, we have all these teaching resources, we’ve got hours and hours of programming. We’d love to volunteer for your littles virtually. Mm. And so they created this amazing partnership with Rogers where Rogers dropped off all these devices to these kids. Holy and so since April Sam and I, five days a week have been doing these courses with the big brothers, big sister students ha. And it’s awesome again, like what an equalizer, right? Like kids are, the equalizer happens in China in the morning, happens again at 4:00 PM with kids in Toronto. You know, they’re laughing at the same joke from Willy Wonka, which is so cool.

Sam Demma (09:44):
That’s so awesome. And I just want to shed light on it because whether it’s facing a challenge with, you know, engaging students online or facing a challenge with hybrid learning where you have to go in class or room and back online, if there’s a will, there’s a way, and I just wanted you to showcase that story because I think it’s a great example. You know, you really pivoted and you’re teaching kids not only virtually, but across the freaking world. Like that is so cool. And I’m glad you, you got a chance to share it. I’m curious to know someone recently described education to me as the own spaghetti on the wall calculatedly and seeing what sticks is there any mistakes you’ve personally made or great successes you’ve had that you think are worth sharing with other educators who might be listening?

Julie Champagne (10:28):
Absolutely. I think that’s such a great analogy. I think one of the big mistakes I made when I first started teaching was being a little bit of a slave to the curriculum and overplanning, right. Just creating these absolutely gorgeous lesson plan and I recognize, I just said, I talked about how with the English tutor, we make these great lessons and these great resources and you need that. But you have to have some flexibility. You have to allow the classroom to derail sometimes and, and go off in these weird, fantastic sidebar conversations. Kids have so much to share if we let them. And it’s in those moments, it’s when you, when you pull back from the very regimented lesson that the real magic happens, but between a teacher and, and their PE and their students and, and the classroom community. So yeah, absolutely. The, the flexibility in the classroom is, is so important. It’s, it’s how you’re gonna build relationships with kids.

Sam Demma (11:32):
No, that’s awesome. I think that’s an amazing piece of advice even in life, you know, I have this weekly planner and no one can see this, cuz it’s not , it’s not, there’s no video here, but it just gives me a high level outline of the week. And so often I find myself not beating myself up, but realizing I didn’t complete everything I said I was gonna do, but then reminding myself that’s okay. And I, I think it’s the same for teaching. I’ve never actually taught, you know, for nine hours a day or eight hours a day for a whole year. But even with speaking, sometimes things don’t go as planned the person before you, you know, cuts you short 20 minutes and you gotta adjust on the fly and figure out how to fill the gaps. And it’s, I think it’s really cool. It’s a like painting, you know, I just gotta take the colors as they come and figure out how to paint the picture. And regardless of what you plan to, you know, create before you started painting.

Julie Champagne (12:21):
Absolutely. And I think more than ever this year, that holds true. Right. Mm-hmm and, and, and just being ready to meet kids where they’re at this year, you know, like you’re saying with your, your agenda, like feeling bad that I didn’t get through everything at the end of the week, you can feel like that teaching all the time. Right. Because, oh, I’ve gotta get to this piece of curriculum. Yeah. They need to learn how to write an essay and sure. They absolutely do. I’m not saying they don’t, but if it derails, because you know, there was a playground fight or some, some, one of your students saw something really spectacular on the news and they wanna talk through it. You have to allow space for that. You have to allow the air to come into your classroom. And, and this year, especially, right. We’re seeing kids who are, they’re just at varying degrees of readiness to learn. Yeah. Right. They are where, what they’ve experienced this year, what we’ve all experienced, the collective experience adults are going through. So we certainly can’t expect kids to, we certainly have to be ready to say, learning’s not happening today. Cuz they’re just not, they’re not ready for it. You know, and being okay with that being okay with saying, okay, but we’re gonna make some progress elsewhere. Mm-Hmm .

Sam Demma (13:40):
And that progress elsewhere is sometimes just showing kids you’re there to hear them and that you care and you’re paying attention. And I’m curious to know, how do teachers do that in a virtual scenario? You’ve done, it seems excellently with kids across the world. If an educator’s listening and you know, maybe the day comes where they decide today’s not gonna be a teaching day. It’s gonna be a, let me show you a care day. What does that day look like for a teacher?

Julie Champagne (14:05):
Yeah. I mean, don’t get me wrong. It is not without its challenges. This world, you know, student isolation is, it’s a big challenge this year. Isn’t it like it’s and, and teacher isolation. Right? Our, our we’ve all lost our communities. There’s, there’s no lunchroom to say, Hey, you know what, this wasn’t working for me today. What worked for you? Yeah. I think one of the ways that we’re doing it, so I, you know, I mentioned, I teach at a school called park street. It’s a grade four to grade eight school. So the kids are pretty little. And I think one of the ways that we’re addressing that and, and showing levels of care is, is recognizing that we have to treat the school day as though we were in person. Mm. And we have to be willing to work on the relationship and work on, on building the trust between teacher and student and, and student and student.

Julie Champagne (14:57):
Right. So all of our lessons are live. The kids are in zoom together, nice learning together, interacting. Right. So as much as we can taking that, that physical space and putting it virtually really helps to lay the groundwork for creating that level of care for kids. And, and then beyond that offering opportunities in class, right. You know, like next Friday, we’re gonna do we’re gonna do a Halloween costume and pumpkin carving contest over zoom, the whole gonna get together. You know, we’ll play, we’ll play the Halloween haunt music and nice. And we’ll all carve great photo, great pumpkins and, and just have some fun. Right. And that’s certainly what’s missing from the virtual space right now, right. Is the fun that comes with school. So we’re trying to find ways that you can inject that in. And that’s when the conversations where it’s let their guard down and, and tell you what’s really going on with them and tell you where they’re at and what they need from you. Right. Their hands are busy or having some fun. And then just all of a sudden that little, that little Mor, so is something that you wanna tease out of them a little bit more shows up, you know? But it doesn’t even have to be as big of an event as that. Right. What Sam’s last fry? She did feel good Friday in her class and all she had them do. I’m not kidding. All she had them do was change their zoom screen name to something that they love about themselves.

Sam Demma (16:23):
Oh, that’s a great idea.

Julie Champagne (16:24):
Right. And so this group of great eight boys, they’re all these great eight boys who are all very different person. And they’re reading about the hound of basketballs. They all, they all took it so seriously and really thought about what they were gonna put out. And we saw some just spectacular answers. That’s amazing, you know, like things like, I’m so glad I have courage or I really love that I can be the calm voice in the room. Mm. Like just what a reflective moment for these kids, but also allows the teacher to just get to know them really quite well and so simple to do. Right. It took two minutes. It didn’t detract from the lesson and the kids leave feeling pretty, pretty good about themselves.

Sam Demma (17:05):
Yeah. That’s so true. That’s an amazing idea. And like, I hope people listening right now are writing down in their own, you know, planner for the next day at class, because that’s an amazing idea. Not only does it encourage self-reflection, but it also allows you to honor your gifts and talents and maybe give you that feel good moment that you wouldn’t have had otherwise. Yeah. Which is phenomenal. And on the topic of student transformation or students being impacted as a direct result of over your dozens of years, you know, working as a teacher and teaching, I’m sure, you know, you’ve had students reach out and tell you, you know, Ms. Champagne, you made a huge impact on my life. And thank you so much for what you’ve done with me. And, you know, it’s really helped. Maybe some of your kids even stay in touch with you today and they’re older and you go out to the bar and have some food and catch up and talk life.

Sam Demma (17:53):
I’m curious to know if there’s any stories of transformation that stick out in your mind and you can change your name. If it’s a very profound story. The reason I’m asking is because a lot of teachers are burnt out. Some teachers are just getting into teaching some teachers plant, but don’t see them. They don’t see the, they don’t see the efforts or the sewing of that seed for 10 years down the road. And especially right now when that network of teachers is gone, I think it’s even more harder to stay motivated and hopeful. And a story of transformation might just be the thing to remind an educator, listening that you know, what they’re doing is important and they should keep pushing forward.

Julie Champagne (18:29):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean I think, I think those sort of impactful moments, they, you can have one really great one and then two, three weeks later, maybe that student takes a backside. Right. I, I, I really feel for new teachers this year. Mm-Hmm I can’t imagine what it must feel like to be in a silo. Right. Just without that sort of support without the sounding board. And to feel like you’re not making a difference, but honestly, any programming, I just, I will answer the question, but I just wanna say any programming that a teacher is providing right now, whether it’s a worksheet that they got up onto Google classroom, or they were hoarded a quick lesson for 10 minutes, or they threw up a cool video that they found on YouTube that is reaching kids. Yeah. And it’s making a difference and it’s, and it’s more than they’re getting otherwise.

Julie Champagne (19:22):
Yeah. Right. And so we just have to be okay with that and we have to celebrate that and recognize we’re all just doing our best, not just teachers, teacher of students, we’re all just doing our best this year. And, and muddling our way through it. Right. So if you know, any new teachers that are feeling that way, I, I, I think they, I, I hope that they just take a pause and realize this is quite honestly the hardest year they will ever teach. Yeah. Right. It’s it’s only gonna get easier from here. Yeah. But not for one second to think that they’re not having an impact. Yeah. Cause they are, even if they have to wait 10 years to get the email from, from the kid, I love it. I think for me, I mean, you, you met some of these kids.

Julie Champagne (20:06):
I, I taught the foundations program at, at my old school. It’s grade nine and 10, and you knew a little bit about them, their, their students who, for whatever reason, the, the mainstream wasn’t working out for them. And so a lot of them arrive with some pretty icy chips on their shoulder. Mm-Hmm . And I can think of one student in particular and, and you know, this student, we had lots of ups and, and downs. This was not, this was not a, a fixed by October. It was a, it wasn’t even a fixed by the time he graduated. Mm. You know? So he arrived in, in grade nine just all over the place, all over the place. He couldn’t predict his actions. You couldn’t, you couldn’t predict if he was gonna listen to your lesson that day or not, or if he was gonna show up or not, and wicked smart, wicked, wicked smart.

Julie Champagne (21:03):
And, you know, I just remember pulling my, a hair out in the staff room. Like, how am I gonna get through to this kid? How am I gonna reach him? He’s more than capable. He can do this. And then we’d have these breakthrough moments where he’d come in and be like, miss, I just read Richard the third, last night for fun. You’re like, wait, sorry. So you won’t read to kill a Mockingbird, but you’ll read Richard the third, your, okay. All right, well, let’s talk Richard III. I’ve read Richard. The third. Let’s do it. Let’s have that conversation. Right. And, and those little moments, I think go a really long way in helping that kid see that I believed in him and that I knew he was capable and I knew he could do it. And I think the real turning point was, was a, was a trip that we took.

Julie Champagne (21:50):
I took the foundation students on a Portage trip to Algonquin. Mm. And I saw a different side of all the students, but this student in particular, there was a confidence and a surety of himself in this environment that I’d not seen in the classroom walls. Mm. You know, the not tying ability, the fire building skills, naming of trees, the all get outta the canoe first to see if there’s any, any bear sightings on, on the site before we pitch our texts, right? Like this is, this was real roughen at camping. There was no glamping about it. And, and it really changed something in me for him. I came back to the classroom and, and just equipped him with so many more hands on things and told him, you know, okay, this is your seat, but this is your squad. Like, this is, you know, if you can’t sit in your seat, the whole class cool.

Julie Champagne (22:42):
But stay within the, stay within this squad that we’ve created. Mm-Hmm right. And, and he did it and, and, you know, to your, yeah, he is, he is a student that I stay in touch with that, you know, sent me a Christmas card last year, who, when he found out I was moving to Ottawa, asked if he could take me out for, for a, a goodbye drink and, and just wanted to say, thank you. And it’s incredible, like what a moment. Right. But at the end of it, like, he taught me so much about my teaching practice. Do you know what I mean? Like yeah, sure. I made an impact in his life. He’s off at Guelph. I mean, he’s home, but he’s not Guelph. Yeah. And, and he’s lighting it up and that’s a, my own practice because of what I went through with this student. Right. So he he’s, I he’s gonna go down in the history books for sure. That’s awesome. So cool. I think if he’s listen, if he listens, he’ll know it’s him too. That’s the funny thing, like he will know

Sam Demma (23:38):
, that’s awesome. I love that. Maybe you just send it to him. yeah, I will. There’s something about you in here, you know, we have to catch up and get a drink and it’s an excuse to have another conversation with a person. Exactly. in the, in the effort of making sure that we try and support teachers and educators, as much as we can and give them opportunities to connect and move away from the silos that they might be in right now, how could someone reach out to you if they wanna bounce ideas around, have cool conversations and just yeah. Talk and connect.

Julie Champagne (24:09):
Yeah, absolutely. I love, I love that. I love sharing resources. I love getting new resources and, and supporting each other. I think that’s the best. So you can find the English tutor on Instagram, just @theenglishtutoronline. You can email me at it’s julie@theenglishtutor.com. Or you can email me at park street, julie.champagne@parkstreetedu.com. Awesome. Would really welcome any anybody that wants to reach out and have a, have a chat I’d love to, I’d love to learn more. Cool,

Sam Demma (24:39):
Julie, thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you and I can’t wait to see all the students you keep to mentor and teach and read to is really exciting.

Julie Champagne (24:48):
Thank you so much.

Sam Demma (24:49):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show, if you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities, and I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Julie Champagne

December 22, 2021 by Sam Demma Founder and CEO Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Nicole Haire – BC Program Head Hayat Universal School Qatar

About Nicole Haire

Nicole Haire (@NicoleHaire) is a powerhouse educator. She worked in Canada for most of her career, but for the past five years in Qatar as the BC Program Head at the Hayat Universal School. She has hosted the Canadian Student Leadership Conference and is a nerd for self-development books and literature. Enjoy this interview.

Connect with Nicole: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Hayat Universal School Qatar Website

Canadian Student Leadership Conference (CSLC)

Activities that Teach

University of Toronto Education Programs

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want to network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and other special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. you might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest is someone with an insane amount of energy. She geeks out on self-improvement books, just as much as I do. And she’s someone that knows everybody in this space of student leadership and, and student advisory. Nicole Haire is the British Columbia, the B C head of all the grade 8-12 students at Hyatt Universal School (HUBS), which is in Qatar.

Sam Demma (01:10):
She’s been in Qatar, I believe for the past five years and she’s doing amazing work, like absolutely phenomenal work. Previously, she’s hosted a CSLC, the Canadian student leadership conference at a school. She’s, she’s been around. She knows everyone in this industry. She’s someone that you should know if you don’t and she’s someone that has a lot of wisdom to share. I hope you enjoy today’s episode. Nicole, thank you so much for coming on the high performing educator podcast. It’s a huge pleasure to have you on this show. Why don’t you start by telling everyone on listening, where you’re tuning in from and how you got into the work that you’re doing with young people today?

Nicole Haire (01:49):
Well, thank you, Sam. What a privilege to be with you. I’m tuning in from Doha, QAR in the middle east, which about six years ago, I had no idea that that was a place or where it was, but it’s attached to Saudi Arabia right next to the United Arab Emirates near a lot of people know Dubai, but Doha is a city of about 3 million people and it’s beautiful here. We’re actually hosting. We, we, because I live here now are hosting FIFA in 2022. So the whole place is under construction. There’s this go bigger, go home in Doha. So I work at a, a BC offshore school. I was a Principal in prince Edward island for Ooh, a lot of years, 25, 26 years. Single mom with three kids in University and I felt like I needed a challenge and an adventure and this opportunity fell into my lap and

Nicole Haire (02:45):
I decided to take a leap of faith and come to the sandbox. And I came for two years. And after a year and a half, when I had to make the decision, whether I would go back to Canada just yet, I wasn’t finished learning what I need to learn here so it’s been quite an adventure. I’ve done lots of traveling, but my students, my, my teachers are from mostly Canada, but also UK, South Africa. So lots of diversity and the students themselves are 98% Qatari nationals, which is unusual for an international school here. Usually they’re mixed, but our school is mostly kids from here. So it’s, I’ve learned so much and not really speaking fluent Arabic yet, but , I, I know the, I know the school where’s like Halas, like that’s enough and yallah get going. You’re late. They’re like, oh, Miss.Nicole, you speak Arabic. No, no, I just school, I speak

Sam Demma (03:40):
School. that’s so awesome. Tell me more about how this opportunity fell in your lap. I think, you know, especially in student leadership, we can talk about seizing opportunities, but the opportunities typically come when the students ready or prepared to take advantage of them. And I, I want a little more context on how this fell into your lap.

Nicole Haire (03:58):
That is so so true and it’s, it’s not that I hadn’t had, you know, little voices talking to me prior to that, but I wasn’t, I wasn’t ready to listen. And to be honest, as a single mom, I was working three jobs. I was a principal for all week long. I was a waitress on the weekends. I was teaching at the university and I was just going solid I all the time. I was also heavily involved with student leadership at my school and at the national level. And I just, I, I was passing myself on the highway. I was just running, running, running all the time. And one night I was driving home from the restaurant where I was waitressing at like two in the morning, cuz we, we closed late and I fell asleep at the wheel and I went off the, to the side of the road.

Nicole Haire (04:43):
I fell asleep and I almost hit a post wow. In a country road in prince Edward island. And I went home and I, I just thought I I’m out of control. Like I, I have to get a handle on this. And, and to be honest, I know everyone has different faith, but I wasn’t in a faithful place at the time. And I just said, I prayed. And I said, you gotta show me the way. And I put my name into a search agency and I had an opportunity to go to Toronto to a job fair. And I met the people from my school and because I had this leadership background and because they were building a high school and they wanted somebody experience with that, they offered me a job within like two months. My household, I had a job in Qatar.

Nicole Haire (05:27):
Nobody knew where Qatar was including me. I blindly went and everything inside of me just told me it was the right move and I needed to take the risk. I needed to take a leap of faith and I did. And it has just been in the best decision I’ve ever made in my life and, and was a one time in my life where I truly knew what I was doing was exactly right. So I think going with your, your gut instinct, whether you call it your gut instinct, your gut instinct, like I think we know when we’re doing the right thing for us mm-hmm and just to get over the fear is the biggest thing like to take, to take that leap of faith means to put the fear aside and just, and just trust and, and go for it. And that was what I did and it’s been the best. So,

Sam Demma (06:10):
Wow. That’s such an amazing story. You see, if I ask a simple question, we get a whole nother layer. So the decision and the move, and I absolutely love that. That’s that’s, that’s the truth. Yeah. I love it. And you know, you mentioned earlier that you were you’re super involved in student leadership. Mm-Hmm how has that translated into your role now in Qatar? Are you still striving to do things on campus? And where did that passion stem from to get involved in student leadership and be the president of C S a and, and really champion the leadership activities in Canada?

Nicole Haire (06:46):
Wow. Well, I, well, I laugh cuz I always say I’m a Leo , that’s part of my problem. nice. Yeah. Born in July, but also just as a, as a child growing up, like I, we can all trace our leadership roots back, you know, and I was the girl guide and in girl guides, I had leaders who saw the potential in me and I wasn’t right away a leader. You know, I had, I had adults in my life, take me aside and say, I think you have this skill. I think, I think we’re gonna put you in a position to practice. And they corrected me and they guided me guide ha ha girl guides. But you know, I got to, when I got into school, I was just always a, a person who was an extrovert and wanted to, I wanted to be happy and I wanted school to be happy.

Nicole Haire (07:30):
And so I was in student council and I, I did all those things. And then as a teacher, I think you, you kind of paid the, you know, so people did that for me. So I started being a student council advisor at my school in Toronto where I started my career. And then again, when I moved back to prince Edward island and then one day a friend of mine said, we’re going to take some kids to the Canadian student leadership conference. It’s in Sacville Nova Scotia, 2001 let’s just go. And I’m just, I think that’s part of my personality is I’m usually the one that jumps on the bus and says, where are we going? You know, it’s kinda like get on a plane to Qatar. Where am I going? You know? And I, I just always, I like that adventure and that, that sense of fun.

Nicole Haire (08:14):
And so we took kids to see SLC 2001 in the Sacville and it was right after nine 11, it was the whole thing was just serendipitous. But we got there and we had no idea. We got off the bus and everyone was screaming and our kids were just like, Deering the headlights. Like, what is this place? And by, by the middle of that conference oh no, actually it was the first night when they say, you know, soon. So see whatever first year and you know, Yorkton, Saskatchewan and the Saskatchewan kid scream. So I’m saying to prince Edward island, get ready, get ready. We’re gonna, they’re gonna say PEI and we’re gonna scream. And they didn’t say PEI. They said every province except PEI. So I turned to Dave Conlin and I said, why didn’t they say PEI? And he said, PEI is the only province that hasn’t hosted.

Nicole Haire (09:03):
And I said, well, that’s unacceptable. We’re gonna host. So in 2008, they put me in the board and I was a director for PEI and in 2008, my, my school hosted the first CSLC in, in, in prince Rhode Island. Nice. And it was fabulous. And just, just memory will never forget. And a team building experience as a school that will never forget. Because when you have to bring a thousand people from across Canada to your school for five days, the best part was the ability because my mother in charge of billing with a friend of mine and, you know, a small town Summerside PEs 15,000 people, we had 45 extra families that didn’t get to host billets because everybody wanted to be part of it. And it was such a, yeah, it was such a feel good week. And so that, that kind of thing, like just seeing of people benefit from you know, just seeing them become leaders.

Nicole Haire (10:00):
I think that that’s why I love being a principal. It’s, it’s not about me being the leader. It’s, it’s finding leadership in my staff and empowering them and kind of working yourself out of a job. The best thing you can do as a leader is work yourself out of a job because every, everybody around you is, is doing their part and, and their body in, you know, so I think they’re all kind of different transferable skills. Some of the things I did in grow guides, I used in my school in, in Qatar, but when I got here, the school was not a high school and the oldest grade was grade nine. Mm. Were gender segregated as our community here is Muslim. And the boys and girls after grade from grade four on, they separate into boys classes and girls classes. So I came in kind of naive to that whole culture and religious tradition.

Nicole Haire (10:51):
And, and I decided I would bring the boys and girls together to train for student leadership my a first month here. And they tried it and then they both came, both sides, came to me and said, please, please don’t do that to us again. That’s not how we do things. and I realized that I, it was a good lesson for me because rather than coming into a place and imposing my view of what I thought things should be. I had to come in and, and be quiet and observe and be respectful and get feedback and find other ways to do some of the things that I wanted to do. So one one thing we’ve done when I was in my school in PEI, we dismantled student council because we found the same 20 kids were doing everything. They were, they were fundraising, they were spiriting.

Nicole Haire (11:40):
They were, you know, doing everything and exhausted. And about three teachers as their advisors were also exhausted. And student council runs from August to July. I don’t care what anybody says. It might take a couple of weeks off in July, but you’re all the time. So we dismantled our student council into into councils, like the ministry here, here. I did it. I brought the idea here and our students do it here as well. So here we have the ministry of sport. Nice. The ministry of the interior is the got government ministry of activities is student activities, ministry of finance. They all wanna be in that ministry of global citizenship because here in Qatar, they have ministries and ministry of the interior is actually the government. And we had just a boom of kids because some people do wanna be just finance. They don’t wanna rah and cheer and march in the parade, or do philanthropic things.

Nicole Haire (12:37):
They just want to count the money. And they wanna put that on their CV as going to university to study accounting say, and some kids are spear kids, and some kids are philanthropists and some kids are sport kids. And so each ministry has a mandate and we had 20 plus teachers involved and about 200 kids. And they had never had student leadership at the school because the school was never a high school. So they decided to, we didn’t have recycling in Qatar when I got here and our kids by their initiative came up with the reusable, like the wa water bottle stations. And they did a whole proposal and got the school to put in the water fountains so that the kids can use wow. And they banned, they banned plastic water bottles from the school. Nice. Like, and so kids are kids, you know, and that’s, that’s what I found when I came here, I was like, okay. So they may dress differently. They may have a religion. And that’s different than mine, which is often more, more like it than different from it. As we have more conversation with one another, but just kids or kids and they still love to lead and they want to have great schools and they’re excited about life and they care about this planet and they care about one another. And I just, potato potato, I just felt like I was home when I got here. You know? So I, I stayed because of the kids. Yeah.

Sam Demma (14:03):
That’s so cool. Mm-Hmm you mentioned over 20 teachers help with it and have participated. There’s other people I’ve spoken to on the podcast and outside of the podcast who sometimes tell me that these positions of student leadership or student council sometimes go vacant, cuz someone doesn’t wanna step up. How were you able to get 20 teachers interested, involved, and excited to help with this work?

Nicole Haire (14:29):
I think you have to be contagious. And I’m not saying that the people that struggle to get help are not contagious because I think people are exhausted right now. Mm-Hmm , especially in this time, like we haven’t launched our student ministry because everybody’s online and now we’re starting to, we’ve all got our legs under us. And it’s like, okay, let’s get student assemblies running virtually let’s, you know, there’s ways around a mountain, but you have to have energy to create energy. And when you’re running on low with your battery and everybody’s just in survival mode, because there’s so much new learning and teachers are learning technology while they’re trying to deliver curriculum and they’re trying to, you know, sleep. And it’s been D to try to do the proactive things, but it’s kind of like when you’re tired and you don’t exercise because you’re tired and then you eat potato chips because you’re tired.

Nicole Haire (15:21):
And then you exercise cause you’re tired. And it’s like a, a vortex of doom. I find that if you do the push and you get people rolling, the energy feeds the energy. And I think we, we were, it’s new also. There’s a little bit of a novelty attached to it here because we haven’t done it before. So people jumped in and were, were willing to get involved. And maybe I think in some schools, traditionally at home, the one person would be kind of tagged as you’re student advise, you know, the student council advisor and, and you’re stuck. It’s like a life sentence. And and other people might think, oh, that’s what they do. And there’s no room for me. And what I’ve always found with leadership is you have to sometimes ask, if you put out a, an email and say, anybody wanna be involved, you’re not going, you’re gonna get of crickets.

Nicole Haire (16:12):
Nobody’s gonna answer that. But when I’ve walked up to specific people and said, I’m just gonna tell you what I see in you. I see this, you know, trade in you. I think you have a lot to offer. Would you be interested? People are usually like really you see that in me because quite often they don’t see it in themselves and they would kind of like to, but they don’t really see themselves that way. And once they’re invited and once they get a chance to get their feet into it and, and the kids are, the kids are the energy. I mean, you can’t be in student leadership and not stay young for the rest of your life. You know, you go, you go to those leadership conferences and you just come back. Like the world is, is perfect. You know, you only took three kids with you and there’s always the crash, the crash that comes with, they go back to school and they’re like, ha, then the whole school’s like, , it’s always a bit of a downer. But then they, then they bounce back and they do great things. And it’s the same way that I think kids get other kids involved. It’s what adults do with adults, you know? And, and half the time it just takes an invitation.

Sam Demma (17:19):
Yeah. I love, I love that. Cause I think it applies to inviting anyone to do anything. Especially if you appeal to people’s your belief in their people’s abilities, especially like you mentioned when they don’t see it in themselves. Yeah. Have

Nicole Haire (17:33):
You, and to off and offer them support, I think is the other big thing mm-hmm , you know, like to just say to somebody, okay, you’re gonna do student council and take off and leave them with that big piece of, you know, the work to do. I think the, the scaffolding is important too. It’s sort of like a coaching mentorship gradual release, you know, you walk with them for a while and then they take off and do wonderful things without you. And that’s what I mean by working yourself out of a job.

Sam Demma (17:58):
Yeah, no, I like that. And it’s passing the Baton on really. You’re just sure.

Nicole Haire (18:03):
And building capacity, building capacity is huge.

Sam Demma (18:06):
You know, it’s like the relay the 4, 4, 100, you don’t just slap the Baton in their hand and just stop. It’s like you guys both run together and you slap it and then you slow down and they speed up.

Nicole Haire (18:15):
That’s an excellent analogy.

Sam Demma (18:17):
For sure. Yeah. And you know, this work is very transformative and sometimes you don’t see the transformation that a student or a teacher might have when being invited into student leadership. But I’m certain that over the years you’ve seen students change and transform and incredible, you know, you might be listening right now thinking that, you know, this year is different and you’re burnt out and you know, an educator listening might think, you know, they might, they might be thinking, what the heck did I get into if this is their first year teaching Uhhuh yeah. And a story of transformation might just be the thing they need to hear to remind them that this is really important work. And if it’s a serious transformational story that comes to mind you can change the name for privacy reasons, but I’m curious that you have any stories of transformation that you think are worth sharing with other educators to inspire them and remind the, then why they started teaching

Nicole Haire (19:12):
For, for teachers transforming or students,

Sam Demma (19:15):
Maybe one of each .

Nicole Haire (19:17):
Okay. Well, I can, I can tell a story about a teacher that was a first year teacher, I won’t say in which country. But that person came in sort of dear in the headlights, very, very fresh, very green and in a very challenging, you know, situation and was sort of thinking that she had to have it all figured out. You know, there’s some sort of false sense of, I don’t know what they teach you in teachers college, that if you show any, any weakness or any need or you know, need for support in your first year that you’re not gonna get your contract, or I don’t know what, but I never in my life have seen anybody start something new and not need that support. So I just keep, always saying to people, it’s smart. People who ask for help, like, don’t, don’t just take it on and try to do it by yourself.

Nicole Haire (20:07):
Let us know. And finally, she came to me in tears one day and she was just like, it much, I can’t handle, I’m gonna quit. I’m done. And I, we just sat down, we had a coffee and I told her the things that I saw that were strong and the things that I was willing to help her with. And I went into her classroom and I, I was in her classroom once a day for maybe two weeks and eventually still started extracting myself and she left her school because she was going to further her education go do her masters. And when she left, she was probably one of the strongest young teachers that I had. And she wouldn’t have said that about herself in the first year. And I think, I think we need to be kind to ourselves. Like I always say this to my children when they start, you know, talking badly, I’m always like, no, no, don’t talk about my daughter that way.

Nicole Haire (21:00):
Or don’t talk, you know, don’t say those things about my daughter to yourself. And, and I’ll just say, you know, you should treat your yourself and give yourself the same advice and the same cut yourself the same slack that you would your best friend, because you need to be your best friend. I think the biggest piece for teachers is to find some allies like Steven Covey says, you know, access your allies. And we’re not, we we’re in a very isolating profession in the sense that we surrounded by people all day. We have 150 kids on our rosters, but we go into our little silos and quite often we work in isolation. There isn’t great time for collaboration, you know, to get together, to talk things out. And I think it’s really important to carve time outta your day, to sit in this staff room, but only sit next to positive people.

Nicole Haire (21:50):
I’m sorry, I I’m, I everybody’s valuable, but if I only have 10 minutes to sit in the staff room, I’m gonna sit by someone who’s gonna feed my soul, not suck me dry. You know? So you have to be very strategic about who you talk to. And not just because not just likeminded people. I, I’m not saying not to open your mind a different points of view or, but some people are, are just negative because they’re negative. And you know, you can say a prayer for them and wish them the best, but you don’t have to allow them to steal your joy. And I always say, nobody gets to rent space in your head without your permission. So, you know, everything that happens, I choose how I react to it. I choose whether or not it ruins my day. I everything’s on a Richter scale of one to 10.

Nicole Haire (22:35):
I ask myself, is this a two or a 10? Quite often, it’s a one mm-hmm and just get on with it. You know? So I think we have to be patient with ourselves that our career is it’s a marathon, not a sprint. And the teacher I am today was not the teacher. I was in my third year when I thought I knew everything. Mm-Hmm I was just smart enough to be dangerous. Mm-Hmm so I think, you know, it’s possible to, to learn and grow if you open your mind and your heart and you just be kind to others and to yourself as far as students to transforming, oh my God, like, that’s why I do the work I do. I it’s like caterpillars and butterflies. And, you know, I think the biggest thing that I see with the students, both here and at home is a generation of kids that have been protected from struggle or are afraid of struggle.

Nicole Haire (23:29):
And I always tell the story and I’m sure you’ve heard it of, you know, the moth and the cocoon and the little girl comes by and she sees this moth and it’s struggling. And she takes the screwdriver and pops it open and the moth falls out and dies. And when her grandfather says, you know, what did you do? She said, I tried to help him. And the grandfather said, you know what? It’s in the struggle that it learns how to fly. Mm. And you know, so I have a student right now, who’s struggling. And we zoom once a week for 45 minutes and he just wants to talk. He just wants to talk about the things that he thinks about. And, and I, I see his struggle, but it’s good struggle, you know? And, and I think we’re afraid of this struggle. We think I don’t wanna be sad.

Nicole Haire (24:13):
I don’t wanna be challenged. I don’t wanna be disappointed. I don’t want to grieve. I don’t want to feel these things, but it’s through working through the feelings of these things that we build our strength, so that the next thing that comes, we’re ready for it. And I’ve seen students that thought that they were, you know, victimized by everything, around them, terrible things in their lives and, and realized that inside of them was this strength and this, you know, capacity to be happy to, to move through things and around things. I always say there’s many ways around a mountain. Like you, we don’t just have to keep slamming into the mountain. Like we can go off road, we can blow it up. We can, dig a whole under it. We can, you know, there’s, there’s always a way through. But I think it’s okay to embrace the struggle. Like I, I, it’s not supposed to be easy all the time. There’s gonna be happy days and sad days. And, and when I see a, a student learn that lesson and, and just embrace their journey, that’s when I know they’re gonna be okay.

Sam Demma (25:21):
I love that. So that’s awesome. And you mentioned a lot of educators right now are working silos, and that’s the whole reason I started this, this project, this podcast, and the hope that I’m so happy to hear this. Yeah. And, you know, you shared so much great ideas and advice, even just the simple ministries idea of someone’s listening and wants to turn their student council into many governmental divide and conquer. Yeah. I think it’s a really unique idea.

Nicole Haire (25:49):
Yeah. And, and I think everybody’s willing, nobody really wants to take on except for crazy people. Like the people I know love want to say that they’re gonna take on the whole student council. I mean, that’s a big job and, and only crazy people like Dave Conlan and marking Lynn that, you know, those people do stuff with joy. But if you said to, like we did at home the lady that was usually used to counting the money for the student council is like, would you like to be the advisor for the finance council? She said, absolutely. I can do that. You know, and somebody else was like, well, I have an interest in sports. I have no interest in, you know, running student activities, but we could do Dodge ball at lunch and, and do healthy living stuff. And it’s like, but then those people became the advisor for that council.

Nicole Haire (26:39):
Mm. And all of a sudden I had all these leaders in my school and they weren’t leaders before they didn’t have the opportunity to practice being leaders. And they just had their little poss of people and they, you know, so each, each just to finish that, what that is each council here, we have ministries, we have prime ministers here, there, we had presidents. So funny, I’m in no sense with prime ministers and in Canada, I had presidents. But anyway, we had a president’s council here. It’s called the prime minister’s council. And so each it’s sort of the nights of the round table. So each council has a prime minister, has a leader. And it’s chosen by the people who work with him and her. And they come once a month around the table. So this is how it would work. There would be like a, a student activity week coming up like Qatar national week, we celebrate the birth of Qatar.

Nicole Haire (27:34):
And the, the activities council would say, we wanna have like an activity every day. And the sports people would say, we’ll take one of the days. We’ll do Dodge ball teachers against do, okay. That’s done. The finance people will say, does anybody need to buy anything for this? You need supplies. You need money. They’ll do a proposal. And they’ll tell them how much money they can have. The communications ministry will say, do you need like announcements, posters? What are we gonna do with that piece? And the global citizenship kids say, you know, we should have a food drive. And at our school be like, we have a dance and everybody brings food and we do something and, you know, hunger for whatever. And it just, they just collaborate. Mm-Hmm , and it’s like a, it’s like a network and it’s so cool. And they support one another and they all have a different piece, but together they’re a whole student body ministry of the interior is the voice of the school, the elected council that deals with policy and meets with the PRI meets with the principal once a month to talk about student issues.

Nicole Haire (28:34):
And they’re the student voice. So if something happens at the school, it’s the prime minister of the interior who speaks on behalf of the students because he’s elected by the students or she is.

Sam Demma (28:44):
That’s so awesome. I love that. Yeah. Very cool. It’s like a mini society in the school. Yeah.

Nicole Haire (28:50):
It’s and, and everybody’s invested, right? So the more kids who are involved, the more it’s just like everything. Like, if you wanna do something, you say, you have to do this. I may or may not. Mm-Hmm , but if you get me involved and I’m part of co-creating what’s happening, and I have invested interest in it, when an activity happens, our kids are like, get involved because this is something that I’m passionate about and I’m excited about, and, and it’s contagious. It just, yeah. And you, you start with things that kids are interested in and over time they just, they start to realize it’s the culture of their school. And that’s what they want. A, a good school culture.

Sam Demma (29:29):
Nice. Yeah. And for all the keen educators listening, the keeners, I know you mentioned Steven Covey, I’m curious to know what are some books or resources that you’ve really enjoyed that have helped with your own personal development that you think another educator might, might fancy , you

Nicole Haire (29:46):
Know, I, well, and to be honest, I’ve read all the, you know, the Gladwell and all these types of books. But for me, the, the books that I have used, and I’m not doing this as a pitch to make money for anybody, but the Canadian student leader association has resources. Dave Conlin has been overseeing that they have books that I’ve used in my classroom called ones called activities that teach. And what I loved about them was we would have fun day Fridays, and you would just open the book and it would be like an activity. It tells you how many minutes it’s gonna take, what you’re materials are, how to run it, what the debrief questions are. My kids used to just my students, like when I was a teacher, they’d be like, is that fun day, Friday? , you know, like we would always do these leadership activities.

Nicole Haire (30:32):
And then we had climate days at school where we brought together a hundred kids and did sort of breaking down the walls, kind of fill void style stuff. Which completely completely changed the culture of our school, getting kids, talking to kids, they didn’t usually talk to. And just understanding that everybody has a story and it’s hard to hate someone whose story, you know, and you know, so that wealth of resources, I took those books. And when I got over here, I couldn’t carry them all. Also then I ordered them and Dave shipped them over and we’ve been using them here, spirit activities and just, you know, kind of fundamental values type leadership activities that are fun. But at the end of it, you go, whoa, I didn’t know. I just learned something. You know, kids, kids are having fun. They don’t know what’s happening until you hit them with the message. And then they never forget it. It’s, it’s sneaky, sneak attack

Sam Demma (31:27):
but it works,

Nicole Haire (31:29):
But it works. And those resources are fabulous. I’ll, I’ll be honest. I’ve used those the most.

Sam Demma (31:34):
Okay, awesome. I’ll make sure to link those in the show notes as well. And if anyone wants to get outta their silo and visit another farm, maybe talk to you a little bit and connect and have a conversation.

Nicole Haire (31:45):
Yes, absolutely. And I mean, we zoom like to me, we are, we’re blessed in a way this whole COVID thing has been, you can look at it one of two ways you can look at it as the, you know, the disaster that everybody talks about. Well, I wish it would get back to normal. I hope it never goes back to normal. I hope we go back to what we were before, because I think this COVID this big stop and think that we have had where it’s like everybody go to your room and stop and think . Yeah. Seriously, it gives, it’s given us an opportunity to reflect on what’s important in our lives about our own personal health and wellbeing. About, you know, I, in the COVID time where we were completely online, I started walking again. I started eating healthy. I was sleeping more there, you know, it was different stress, but there were other stresses that weren’t there anymore.

Nicole Haire (32:39):
My kids and I started zooming every Sunday. Nice. And I’ve been here for five years. We had never zoomed all of us together. Now we have religiously every Sunday, got it. We have family time and we zoom them to catch up my sisters. So we are in silos, but we’re in silos by choice. There’s there no excuse for us to be in silos. And I would love to talk to anybody that wants to talk. So, you know, I’m, I’m a few hours ahead of you right now. It’s almost 11, o’clock my time. But we, we seem to be able to make connections. And I, I keep in touch all the time through zoom and WhatsApp and we’ve, we’ve got all this technology and it’s like nuclear energy. It can be a weapon or a tool. And if we start using, I think the tools at our fingertips to stay connected instead of to keep us separate we have a hope of , you know, it’s like everybody together.

Nicole Haire (33:35):
I always say to my team at school sticks in a bundle or unbreakable, it’s like a Kenyon proverb. It’s like, you can’t break a bundle of sticks. You can break individual sticks, but you can’t break as if we’re a bundle. And I see it over and over every time someone’s, we keep in touch with each other, we’re checking in, you know, there’s perpetual chocolate in my office. People have places that they can go one other person a day just to check you in on you and say, they see you. I think having mentors is very important. And just, just to say hi, just to know that, you know, if I didn’t show up today, somebody would call my house and see where I was. you know, so it’s, that’s awesome. It’s about relationships. I think that’s, if we have those relationships, we have, we have hope.

Sam Demma (34:19):
That’s awesome. I, and if someone does wanna reach you and build a relationship what would be the best way for them to do so? Is there an email that’s best or?

Nicole Haire (34:27):
Or, yeah, sure. Yeah. I it’s it’s easy for me. It’s hairenicole2@gmail.com and it’s H A I R E like hair on your head with an E, but yeah, they can just email me and then if they wanna chat further, we can and chat or share resources or share stories, whatever. But I think I think people should, I mean, I’m not saying don’t contact me, but I think people haven’t even tapped into the resources that are right beside them. Yeah. The teacher next door. I always, in my notes, I give a challenge each week to my staff and a quote of the week and the challenge this week was go find somebody, spend 10 minutes with them and ask them how they are. And just reach out to that teacher next door. And we don’t know what they’re going through, you know, and, and you’d be surprised sometimes you have things in common with people that you think you don’t. Take 10 minutes to talk. Yeah.

Sam Demma (35:22):
Love that. That’s awesome. Well, thank you, Nicole so much for coming on here. So much positive energy, and I know everyone listening can feel it as well. I really do appreciate it, and I wish you all the best and I’ll, I’ll definitely keep in touch. And I, you know, one day maybe I can come to Qatar and say, hello.

Nicole Haire (35:38):
But I would, I would pay to work with you, Sam. I’m really, I have to say that when I meet young people, that just, you can, when you say you see potential, I’m just sitting here going, I’m gonna keep track of Sam, cause someday I’m gonna say I talked to him in 2020, but I think you’re a phenomenal person and congratulations for the work you’re doing. Thank you. I appreciate it. You’re most welcome.

Sam Demma (36:02):
I’ll talk soon, Nicole. Okay. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Nichole Haire

December 22, 2021 by Sam Demma Principals Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Sara Daddario – English Teacher and Director of Student Activities at Kennedy High School

About Sara Daddario

Sara Daddario is a teacher in Southern California who believes that all students can achieve if they know that they are seen, supported, and have a voice. She has been working with teens for 15 years teaching resilience, success maintenance and integrity through the subjects of English and Student Leadership.

When she was little she told her parents she wanted to be a Jedi when she grew up, and figures that teaching is just about as close as you can get to that.

The Force is strong with her.

Connect with Sara: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Dr. Ellen Caldwell (Sara’s University Professor)

Anaheim Union High School District

TikTok Challenges

“These Kids are Killing me” (Tumblr) Blog

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Sara Daddario. Sara is a teacher in Southern California who believes that all students can achieve if they know that they are seen, supported and have a voice. She has been working with teens for 15 years, teaching resilience, success maintenance, and integrity through the subjects of English and student leadership. When she was little, she told her parents, she wanted to be a Jedi when she grew up and figures that teaching is just about as close as you can get to that. The force is strong with her. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Sara and I will see you on the other side.

Sam Demma (00:47):
Sara. Welcome to the high-performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself to some of the educators that are tuning in?

Sara Daddario (00:56):
Okay. Hi my name is Sara Daddario. I have been an English teacher and activity director for 14 years in Southern California. And I’ve, I think in those capacities, I’ve taught every grade level between seven and 11, for some reason, 12th grade still evades me. I get to teach seniors in my leadership class, but they won’t give me a senior English class. But you know, careers are long stuff. We’ll get there eventually. I’m sure.

Sam Demma (01:25):
That’s awesome. And did you know growing up from a young age that you wanted to become a teacher?

Sara Daddario (01:31):
No. and if you had told me at any age that I was gonna be a teacher, I would’ve told you, you were insane. I probably would’ve screamed profanity at you and laughed in your face. It was something that I came to way later in life and I’m, I’m so glad I think as a teacher, you really have to know who you are to be effective. And I think that not knowing that this was what I wanted to do, kind of gave me time to figure out who I was and the world, and I didn’t come to teach until I was almost 30. And I’m so glad because I had so much life experience to bring in with me.

Sam Demma (02:11):
How did you come to teach? What does, what did the journey look like?

Sara Daddario (02:17):
Okay. So when I started college straight out of high school, I’m first generation college graduate in my family. And the only reason I really signed up for college was because my friends and I found out we could get out of our senior econ class. If we went on the field trip to the junior college and while we were there, they immediately registered us. So really it was a, a planned, a ditch class that , but I I’m a musician, I’ve been a musician my whole life. So I a was like, oh, I’ll be a music major. And then I always kind of kept an English class in my back pocket and was like, oh, I took, you know, 12 music classes, but, and this one English class, cuz it’s easy for me. And I sort of kept going down that path and I realized sort of at the end, when it was time to transfer to a university like, oh, I don’t actually enjoy the study of music, but I really like English at the same time.

Sara Daddario (03:09):
I don’t know what I thought I was gonna do with it. And I was just like, I’m transferring as an English major. Still didn’t have a plan to be a teacher, but was doing a lot of volunt with teenagers. And it was funny. I went to the, I went to the university guidance counselor and was like, I don’t know what to do with my life. Like, I’m gonna get a degree in English. I don’t know, law writing. And she’s like, you have years of volunteer experience with teenagers, have you considered teaching? And I was like, oh, that’s a thing I should maybe think about and there was no going back for me. It was obviously the right path. The second I started doing it and started doing my pre-service hours in my credential program, I was like, oh, this is what I wanna do. And I tell my students, like when you’re doing the thing that you’re meant to do that saying like, you never feel do what you love and you’ll never work a day. And you, if like I get up at five o’clock every day, it has to be something I love to get up at five mm-hmm. like, I like sleep a lot, but I like teaching more. So that’s how I got here.

Sam Demma (04:08):
That’s that’s so cool. And do you still set aside time to explore your musical passions?

Sara Daddario (04:15):
Oh yeah, I do. Like just like hop. I mean really mostly at this point it’s probably far too many concerts on school nights that I, you know, shouldn’t be doing, but absolutely. You know, wh when there’s time, those are things that we love to do.

Sam Demma (04:30):
That’s awesome. And so aside from your guidance counselor, who seems like they really pushed you in this direction, or at least opened up your mindset to this op this option, did you have other teachers or people in your life that after you started talking about teaching kind of nudged you in that direction and what did they do for you?

Sara Daddario (04:47):
I have some teachers that that I a hundred percent credit for me being here and they’re they’ve happened at all times in my life. So I remember my 11th grade English teacher, Irene Matthews, who is now my neighbor, she’s long retired and she lives down the street for me. Nice. I see ire her out, doing her walk every day but she was the first teacher that I had that actually told me I was kind of a rotten kid. I was really in trouble a lot. I was not motivated. I was motivated by social things and not my school things. And she was the first teacher that said, Hey, you’re pretty good at writing. And you have a really good kind of grasp of reading. I think this class is something you can enjoy. And so from that moment, I sort of someone recognized that I was more than just a body in a chair and I had become like, oh, I have a gift for this.

Sara Daddario (05:40):
I should start trying and put an effort. And college is an English major. I had a professor who passed away a few years ago Dr. Ellen Caldwell. And she was just a teacher that I, if I ever could describe what I try to embody in the classroom. It’s this woman, it’s like an absolute acceptance of meeting your students where, where they’re at, but holding them to such a high standard and believing that they can get there no matter like it, with the right supports they can get there. And I didn’t even know when she was my professor that I wanted to be a teacher, but when I kind of decided I was gonna go into a credential program, I approached her about writing my my recommendation letters. And she said, this is absolutely the thing you should be doing. You were born for this, you’re helping other people in class.

Sara Daddario (06:30):
Like this is your path. And I was like, it is okay. And then just, I got so, so lucky at the beginning of my career. A and I don’t know, and some of these are people I still work with today cuz I still work in the same district I was hired into eventually. I mean, initially there was a lady that worked on the teaching staff, at least Bikeman at my school, first school I hired into and she I’d like teacher burnout is real because you’re new and because you’re good, they’re gonna ask you to do 500 things. I’m gonna protect you for your first two years and not get you on committees and I’m gonna get your feet under you. The person who was the district curriculum specialist was my mentor. I had administrators that were super encouraging and really fostered kind of personal connection with your colleagues and your students.

Sara Daddario (07:22):
And it’s almost, education’s kind of gone away from that kind of mentoring. In the last, I would say probably six or seven years, but having that foundation has allowed me to see like I should be that for other people. So I’m always reaching out to new teachers and giving them PEPs. And I know don’t wanna commit to being on this committee. But they’re the people that really kept me in it and having other teachers that I was colleagues with to look up to that I could just wander into their classroom and just observe and come away better is the best gift I have been given in my career. So I really think I was super lucky to just have all these amazing people that fall in my path.

Sam Demma (08:02):
That sounds like the perfect scenario, you know, like kinda it yeah. Like having great veteran teachers, having awesome mentors that walk up to you and are like, I’m about to protect you for these first two years. Like that’s, that’s like a gaurdian angel kind of thing, you know? Yeah. So you say that things have kind of shifted away from that in the past six, seven years. What, what do you mean by that?

Sara Daddario (08:27):
I think I see a lot of kind of trends in education. You know, I, I came into my career at the end of the nickel bee era when standardized testing was everything. Mm. And now we still have standardized testing, although it happens less frequently. And their kind of high stake testing happened fewer times in a student’s career. But, but definitely like there’s a lot of demand on a teacher now to perform more, to do more that teachers are not doing enough. And it’s funny, I think during COVID I don’t think there’s a teacher on the planet that felt like they were doing enough when we were all home because there’s nothing you can like there was, we could do. And we knew where those shortcomings were and we knew that those need and need conversations in the classroom with students that motivate them every day is the thing that keeps us go, keeps us going.

Sara Daddario (09:25):
But everyone is looking for like right now in education, there’s such a push for two things that I see. One and like student mental health supports, which is huge. Like students are screaming for it. Districts like mine are pretty progressive about getting students the support that they need and having recess resources for them. But but there are some that are just like it’s a family problem. That’s not our problem. And teachers who are struggling to help students kind of get to a point where they feel like they can seek out those supports or where their classrooms are safe spaces, where they can say this is happening in my life and it’s not okay. So that is a huge, it’s a huge thing that impacts us because whether a teacher is willing to accept the responsibility or not for a, a child’s wellbeing, that responsibility is still there.

Sara Daddario (10:19):
And especially for the, you know, at whatever your site is 54 minutes that you have them in the room, you have a responsibility to that child, whether you’re willing to accept it or not. Mm. And when you are a teacher who students share their stories with and share your lives with that becomes exhausting and crippling because there’s, your hands are tied so much. Yeah. but the other is the push for students to really, I mean, I teach high school and I see more and more now for students to sort of bridge that gap between high school and their adult life and make those transitions so much earlier. My district has many partnerships with like we have one with Google, we have one with Tesla and we have these pathways for students to, which are amazing opportunities. The campus I work, I work on has an artificial intelligence program that is, can make a pathway into a career and artificial intelligence.

Sara Daddario (11:15):
But when there’s that kind of pro pressure there’s, there also comes from the students. They don’t get that opportunity to be a kid and to just be a kid sitting in the stands at a football game with their friends on a Friday night. And so finding a way to bridge those gaps between the demands of sort of the world and the requests of the future on these students, and then allow them that last little bit of their adolescence that they get is, is a thing that’s really hard on us. I sit in my leadership class and I talk to them about, I have kids in here that are melting down because they, they don’t know what they wanna do for the next 60 years at 17. And they feel like their entire life is a failure because they don’t have that figured out and having the tools to have those conversations is hard. And that’s definitely a huge change from when I started my career and students were like, yep. Gonna go to college, I’ll figure it out. Like, and now they’re just live.

Sam Demma (12:13):
Yeah. You’re speaking to my younger self. I’m only 22, but I at 13 moved to a different country to pursue a dream and a goal. And then at 17 took a fifth year of high school and stayed back and then took a gap year and then went to university and then dropped outta university. Like I thought I was making your path. Yeah. I thought I was making all the wrong choices. Right. I think those conversations are so important. How do you, how do you think you’ve effectively tried to navigate those conversations so far in your classrooms? Like how do you have those discussions?

Sara Daddario (12:40):
I have an analogy I use with my kids all the time and, and they’re hysterical. I say, there’s a party on Friday night. How can you get there? And they’ll shout out a million answers. Like I’ll take the bus, I’ll walk, I’ll ride a skateboard, I’ll have a friend, I’ll call an Uber. And they come up with a, like, I love, I love the ones that are like, I’m gonna ask the pizza delivery guy to pick me up on his way, or I’m gonna hire sled dogs. Yeah. And I say, okay, all these ways that you get to the party, do they take the same amount of time? And they say no. And I said, right, it’s the same with college and the rest of your life. You’re on your own timeline. And you’re on own path. How you get there is doesn’t matter.

Sara Daddario (13:17):
Doesn’t matter how long it takes. You doesn’t matter how you get there. What matters is that at the end of the day, you’re happy with the choices you made and you get somewhere. And I think being a person who really struggled kind of just out of high school to know what I wanted to do, and everybody just kind of said, figure it out. I didn’t have mentors or th or people like that. But a, and being able to say to them, like I didn’t become a teacher until I was almost 30. Like, and I’m glad because I needed to figure out that that was the right thing for me is a, is an easy into for the kid. Who’s like all my friends, sorry, lunch, just standard. So that’s the bill. you know, all my friends know where they’re going and I have no idea what I’m going, what I wanna do with my life. And I tell them, you know, you’re gonna get to college and all your friends are going to realize that a business major, wasn’t what they really wanted to do. And they’re gonna change their major and start from scratch, or they’re gonna figure out that college wasn’t for them. And there were these other options, or they’re gonna find something that makes them amazingly happy and they’re gonna get out of their bus and they’re gonna hop in a car and go to their party. And it just matters that they get there.

Sam Demma (14:23):
I love that. That’s such a cool analogy. Did you hear that somewhere or did you just kind of come up with it?

Sara Daddario (14:29):
No it was just lots of years of talking to students.

Sara Daddario (14:33):
There you go. That’s Sara’s wisdom. There’s a lot of ways to get to the party. Just get there.

Sam Demma (14:38):
Did you have to navigate that as a child? Did you know, did you have no way to the party and you just started calling the pizza person?

Sara Daddario (14:45):
Kinda I was a child that grew up with a pretty significant amount of trauma. I have my mom was a single mom. I have, fortunately, I have four parents, which is great. You know, my parents divorced and remarried, but when I was in high school and I was navigating that they were sort of sorting out their own lives. As adults now, it has been nothing but character building. Like I said, I have the great, the best relationship with all of my parents, but at the time I grew up in a different time and, you know, parents weren’t as focused on their kids in the eighties and the early nineties as they are now. So I didn’t really have anybody to help me figure that out. I had a counselor in high school who, this is maybe my favorite, favorite thing about career.

Sara Daddario (15:31):
I should have mentioned her as a mentor earlier, but she was a brand new counselor, my senior year of high school. And I got myself into a situation in high school where they weren’t entirely sure I was going to finish. And thankfully I overcame the, the struggle that I was going through and finished very high in my class did very well, but that counselor kind of never gave up on me and said, you know, you’re, where are you gonna go to college? You gotta go to college. What’s your plan? And I was like, I don’t know, I’ll go on the field trip. You know, like I mentioned, and then it was about my third year of teaching because in education there’s always budget cuts and shuffling. And I got moved to a, a junior high site and it was that same counselor.

Sara Daddario (16:12):
It was for last year of her career as a counselor. And I got to be her colleague. Wow. and so she really like made such a huge impact and, and you got, I got to kind of see the scope of her life and what I was doing, but she was that person for me that said like, you know, she was the one with the pep talk that said, and I, of course at 17 was like, okay, lady, whatever. . But to be able to kind of reconnect with her as an adult and look her in the face and say, no, I’m here because of you and your life has your career has directly affected mine. And now here we are together is a pretty cool thing.

Sam Demma (16:49):
And not only does those experiences occur with colleagues and teachers that taught you, but I’m assuming that now it also happens with you and your former students, right?

Sara Daddario (16:58):
Yes. Yeah. And you know what, thank God for social media, because I know we see so many negative things on social media, but I think we gotta, I I’m, I’m making an argument with my district right now that because of these TikTok challenges that are happening that are so negative , they’re like we wanna challenge kids to do a weekend on social media. And I’m like, why don’t we challenge ’em to do something positive with it instead. Yeah. But because of social media, I’m still connected to so many students that I’ve taught. I’ve been invited to their weddings, I’ve held their babies. And I don’t feel like I’ve been a teacher that long. I don’t feel that old, but I am. And so I’m waiting, I know some time in the next few years I’ll get the first, oh, you were my mom’s teacher. And that I hear about that from colleagues and that’s what I’m waiting for. So

Sam Demma (17:42):
That’s so awesome. Yeah, that sounds great. And I’ve talked to other educators and they’ve told me they have a, a rainy day file on their desk where they keep all the thank you notes from past kids. Is that true?

Sara Daddario (17:52):
Yes, that’s true. I had a really, really great administrator my first year teaching, who said, keep an envelope in your desk, put all that stuff in there. And if a couple years goes by and you haven’t put anything in the envelope, maybe think about retiring. So we all have it. And we all, it’s great. Sometimes you pull out and you have a good cry and sometimes you pull it out and you go, I have no idea who this kid is anymore, but all right. I thought I made an impact. sometimes you pull it out. And, and the ones that I love the most are the ones with the kid that is the biggest pain in the butt. That is never absent. That is the reason you grind your teeth at night. You know, the one that makes you question every choice you’ve ever had, and that you would never name your child. That, because that name is forever ruined because of this child. I have notes from those kids. Yeah. And those are the things, or I have work from those kids, cuz that’s a good reminder. Like if I could got, if I could get that student to be successful, then I need to keep doing this.

Sam Demma (18:50):
Amazing. And you know, because there’s a lot of negativity going on right now in the world. I’m curious to know if one of those stories of transformation kind of sticks out in your mind. Maybe there’s one kid you can remember or think of and something that happened. And if it’s a very serious story as well, you can change their name. You know, we can call them Bob or something, but curious.

Sara Daddario (19:10):
Yeah. There’s tons of them. Oh my gosh. I have so many I think, okay. So I, I don’t wanna get political in this, but I always, when my students are frustrated with something, like my district has a very strict dress code policy that the students can argue is gender bias. I, I kind of take a, you can complain about it or you can do something about it. Mm. So I had this student, he was a freshman. I had him about six years ago. I’m going to change his name to Michael. Nice. And we’re gonna refer to the student as Michael. So he’s graduated now and gone on with his life. But when I had this student as a freshman, he was really impossible to connect with. And that’s the thing that I strive to do in my classroom. I tell my students on the first day, I, if you don’t like English, that’s okay.

Sara Daddario (20:06):
Like if you hate reading, if you’ve been fake reading your whole life, or if you have never written a paper, if you are very familiar with the spark notes website for every assignment you’ve ever been given that’s okay. But you’re gonna know in this room that someone sees you and knows what you’re doing and is connected with you. And no matter what I did, I could not connect with this student. And the behaviors were escalating and we did data dives into family history. We had meetings and, and meetings and I couldn’t connect with the student no matter what I did. And then the election happened the first election when president Trump was elected to office and the next day this student came in and was visibly shaken up. And I said, I said, just off the cuff, like, Hey Michael, I know you don’t trust me, but will, you know, if you wanna talk about something I’m here for you.

Sara Daddario (20:59):
I know I’m not the person you connect with, but talk to someone. And he held back after class and it was because my class was right before lunch for him. And if a student wants to stay in at lunch, like of their own free will is pretty serious because nothing is going to make a high school child miss lunch. So he said, can I talk to you? And I was like, sure. And I sat down and he said, you know, I feel lost right now. I feel scared. I feel afraid, but I feel like I have to do something about it. This student then became the biggest proponent of student voter registration, student education. He’d be out there at lunch, telling people I don’t care who you vote for. I don’t care where your politics are. I don’t care if you agree with me, if you wanna sit down and talk about it, we can talk about it.

Sara Daddario (21:41):
But I care that you do something because not enough people are doing something and to get to see that student really struggle and then take action and become like this amazing student who was participating in youth in government day for the local city. And has gone on to study politics in college because this was a moment. And all I did, he did not wanna connect with me at all. But when he was, he knew my room was a safe space and I would guide him to help take the action he needed and he took it. And that, that is one of the biggest things for me, because it’s so affected his life. I have students that have come out in my class with, you know, and, and students have changed their gender identity. Students who have been the Vic victims of bullying have confronted their bullies in my classroom and to watch them become whole and go out and live these amazing lives. And knowing that my room was the safe space, where that happened is absolutely the reason to show up every day.

Sam Demma (22:44):
How is that safe space created? I’m like, I would assume that every educator listening is like, I want my kids to know that they can come to me when they’re scared. You know, what, what do you think allows your students to have that level of trust with you?

Sara Daddario (22:56):
Okay. So I think it’s a bunch of things. I believe really strongly in the say, do ratio. And so when I go over that with my students, and that’s what percentage of what you say you’re going to do, do you actually do? And I live that every day with my students. If I say, I’m going to come find you in another class to check up, to see you’re okay, I’m gonna do that. I’m a child of divorce and thank God. My dad said repeatedly as a kid, like to us, when we were kids, if I say, I’m gonna be there, I’m gonna be there. And that was a value that, that was kind of instilled in us. You’re worth is the most important thing that you have, and it reflects your character. Two, the other one comes from my mom and my mom, my mom, when she, she, my mom passed away a few years ago, but she was a lady who her entire philosophy in life was you love people as hard as you can.

Sara Daddario (23:49):
And when they are difficult and they push you away, you love them harder. whether you like it or not. And if you are struggling with loving somebody, then that’s your problem and you need to get better at it. so I think that’s another thing that I really kind of use with my students. They are loved and accepted in my classroom. It doesn’t matter how awful they are that day. And certainly we have those days. But they know when they come back in the next day, they get a fresh start every day. So keeping your word, creating a space where a student knows they’re seen and valued and safe and creating a space, a community where they really know each other. Hmm. I utilize social contracts in my classroom. So my students, my students create the environment they want to be in.

Sara Daddario (24:32):
Which if I, I, it’s funny, I’m in my boardroom and there’s two doors and the, this quote is on one, but the social contracts on the other one, and I can’t like turn for you to see it. That’s okay. They come up with the most amazing things and they sit in groups and they have discuss about what do we want this room to be like for us? So they create their own environment. And all I do is I hold them to it. And I say, no, we said, we were gonna do this. Are we doing that? And do we need to change that? So giving student voice in your classroom, giving them choice and supporting them unconditionally, knowing that they’re not gonna hold a grudge with them is kind of the best way to create that space and giving them a fresh start every time they need it. I don’t know what I’m doing every day. I can’t imagine a 14 year old knows or is in control of their emotions every day. Yeah. Oh, and I teach , I should tell you this. I teach freshman English, but I teach it to RSP students in English learners. So I have the toughest population on our campus at the you age. Like, and I I’m their favorite class. Like, so if I can do it, anybody can do it. yeah.

Sam Demma (25:33):
I love that. That’s so cool. That’s such like a, and you probably feel so fulfilled cuz you’re doing such meaningful work, you know, every educator should.

Sara Daddario (25:41):
Feel fulfilled. I feel tired.

Sam Demma (25:44):
Yeah,

Sara Daddario (25:46):
But I feel

Sam Demma (25:48):
Well, maybe you gotta stop doing those after-school concerts, Sara. Totally joking. But oh, this has been awesome. If you could go back in time and give your first year yourself in education as a teacher, one or two pieces of advice, knowing what you know now, what would you tell your younger self?

Sara Daddario (26:07):
Get involved with something you love on campus? I work with the student leadership program and I, my third year teaching another amazing teacher mentor, Alan Carter said, Hey, I want you to come advise this class, cuz I think it’s the right fit for you. And I’ve been working in student activities ever since because that, for me, I love teaching all students, but getting out of bed and making an impact to my campus through my student activities program is the reason I get outta bed, my leadership kids like that time that we’re spending, setting up an assembly or a rally building balloons. And I get to watch them kind of put on this creative, amazing event and they’re goofy and they’re silly with each other. Like I live for that. Yeah. Because I get to see their work pay off. And if I would’ve, it’s not something I would’ve ever thought of being involved in.

Sara Daddario (26:58):
If this other person didn’t say you need to have something in your day, besides teaching, besides grading, besides parent phone calls, like find something you love, even if it’s advising a club, that’s one of your hobbies. Something that you have in common with students, find a way to put that in your Workday because that’s your break. That’s your Oasis in the middle of the day. And then the only other piece of advice I would give is remember that parents so rarely hear positive things about their kids, especially the really difficult kids and try and find something positive to share with their families because they wanna hear good news sometimes too.

Sam Demma (27:36):
Love that. That’s such a good piece of, I actually never heard the second one before on the show, so that’s awesome. that was fresh. Well, nice. There you go. If someone wants to reach out to you ask a question or just get in touch and it’s another educator listening, what would be the best way for them to do so?

Sara Daddario (27:51):
Email (daddario_s@auhsd.us) and I will make sure that you have my email so that you can attach it somewhere. Cuz my last name is very long and complicated it Italian’s gotta love. Yeah. So but email’s the best way to get to me and it may take me a couple of days to get to you because I’m an activities director and we’re in homecoming season. So the emails are long. But I will, I will answer your question. I’ll try to help. I also write a teacher blog on Tumblr. If you’re on Tumblr, the last social like Tumblr will be the last social media standing after everyone dies. So find “these kids are killing me” is the name of my tum bug. So you’re welcome to come to find me there and we can talk about PD.

Sam Demma (28:36):
That’s awesome. Sara, thank you so much. I know no one can see the video, but I’m surprised you didn’t use your hands like this the whole time.

Sara Daddario (28:43):
I’m keeping ’em below the screen.

Sam Demma (28:46):
That’s awesome. But thank you so much. This has been great. Keep up the awesome work and we’ll talk soon.

Sara Daddario (28:52):
Thank you.

Sam Demma (28:53):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2 20 21 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sara

December 22, 2021 by Sam Demma Experiential Learning Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Dr. Seth Goldsweig – Vice Principal at The Leo Baeck Day School and PhD in Educational Leadership

About Seth Goldsweig

Dr. Seth Goldsweig(@SGoldsweig) is the vice principal at The Leo Baeck Day School in Toronto. He has been in formal education for 17 years. His PhD is in educational leadership and believes that education is a tool to help students find their voice and change the world.

Connect with Seth: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Leo Baek Day School Website

Padlet

Easy Baking Recipes for Kids

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want to network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and other special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. you might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting. Go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Dr. Seth Goldsweig. He is the vice principal of the Leo Baeck day school in Toronto. I had the pleasure of speaking in front of his entire student body last year before COVID 19. And it is my absolute pleasure to bring him back on the show here for you today.

Sam Demma (00:59):
He has been in formal education for 17 years, has a PhD in education leadership, and thinks that education is a tool, a very strong tool to help help students find their voice and change the world. The other day, he sent me an email telling me that one of his students at his school is working on building the reactor that’s in the middle of iron man’s chest, and he’s supporting this kid on his venture to learn about technology and bring this project together. And I’m sure in this interview, you will hear Dr. Seth’s energy just shine through in his responses. I hope you enjoy this, I’ll see you on the other side. Seth, thank you so much for coming on the high performing educators podcast. It’s a, it’s a pleasure to have you.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (01:42):
You it’s a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

Sam Demma (01:45):
Can you share with the audience who you are and what got you into the work you do with young people today?

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (01:52):
Sure. My name is Seth gold. So I’m the vice principal at the Leo Baeck day school in Toronto. And I’ve been, this is my, I think 11th year as a vice principal. I started a school before, now is my eighth year at this school. And I’ve been in education for I think, 17 or 18 years. What got me into it. I mean, many things. Certainly, I love that feeling when when you see a kid starting to feel really good about him or herself and know you played a part in that, it’s just, it, it, it makes you feel warm all over. It’s just a really special feeling. You know, you had a part in, in someone’s success. There’s a selfish reason. I think kids are our future and and I’m only gonna be in this business until, until I retire and I wanna make sure we’re in, we’re in good shape for the future.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (02:44):
So I, you know, I wanna make sure that they’re set up to succeed and then I think the most important one though Sam, is that kids are amazing. Can I tell you a short story about something that happened to me today? Absolutely. I hear that a student we’ll call him Ben. Ben is looking for me, right? Dr. G Dr. Goldsweig. Ben needs you. Okay. So I like, he’s not in my waiting for me in my office. I go, finally, I find him outside Ben, you know, what’s going on? Oh, I had to ask you something. I made a pinata for my friend; it’s her birthday. And I wanted to know if I could hang up my pinata and so she could hit it. So here I’m worried, like there’s some big, like major thing going on. He had a fight or he’s upset about something stress, but no it’s cuz he had made a pinata for his friend and they wanted to to set it up. It was her birthday, I think, hours making the pinata. It was, you know, it’s things like that, that happened every day that you’re surprised by their creativity and what they do. And it just, it makes it really special.

Sam Demma (03:44):
How do you cultivate a school culture where kids decide to make pinatas and ask you to help them and hang it up? I think that’s a very unique culture you’ve built. And I’m curious to know if you think there’s any specific traits of students that you’ve encouraged in them to have them doing things like that.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (04:05):
I think it, listen, it all starts with the teachers. You know, if it’s happening in the classroom, that’s happening elsewhere to try to, you have to cultivate a, a love of experimentation and learning and, and inquiry. And, and if you are interested in what the kids have to share, then I think they’re gonna keep sharing. There, there’s a study that shows about creativity and the most creative people are kids in SK and then every year we get less and less and less creative. And and they did this by asking about paper clips, how many different things can you do with a paper clip? Mm. And adults will come up with a few things, you know, I can put paper in it. Maybe I can use it to like, hang my keys or something. Kids start asking, well, what color can it be?

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (04:51):
What’s it made out of, can it be different sizes? Can it, and so, so if you, if you use the kids imagination as a model and you just keep keep encouraging it, then I think you end up with a, a school culture that does that the other day, a kid comes up to me that Mr. Gold or Dr. Goldstein, I’m trying to figure out how to build an arc reactor from Ironman. And so he showed me, had this this whole diagram and he’s trying to figure out the technology for reactor every day. He says he gets a little closer. He shows me the updates and my job’s simple. I just have to listen and say, that’s amazing. Keep going. I can’t wait to hear the updates. So I think if you just show an interest in the kids, they’re gonna, they’re gonna thrive.

Sam Demma (05:35):
That’s awesome. And times are different right now with COVID we’ve been presented with unique challenges. What are some challenges that you’ve been faced with as a school that you’ve overcome and maybe even a mistake or two that you’ve made that you’ve learned from that you think is valuable to share?

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (05:52):
The the challenges are numerous. The mistakes are numerous and learning is numerous. You know, one of the, one of the challenges community is really big at my school. And we, we were very lucky for, for many, many years that you could physically come into contact with people and community physically, whether it’s having a school barbecue or, or having a new parent breakfast all of these things that, that make community possible. And so now we find ourselves in a situation where we still wanna build community, but everyone has to be physically separate. And so we’ve had to get creative in how we do that. So some of it is doing things online. Some of it is, you know, for our new parent breakfast, we had a as online zoom, but we still, we, we wanted the breakfast to be part of it.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (06:38):
So when they dropped their kids off at school, we gave them boxed breakfast as a way of saying, you know, sit down, eat when we have our, our our orientation. Let’s try it, let’s try and make it special. You know buddies, we have a whole buddy program where big, our older kids are with our younger kids, which is really, I think, an important part of our school, that kids, when they go into grade four and they they suddenly become up till grade three, they’re the little buddies. And then at grade four, they become the big buddies. It’s a big, important moment for them. And how do you do that when you can’t have kids come into contact with each other? So we’re trying new things, we’re trying a pen pal system, or we might do an introduction over zoom, and then they start perhaps creating a, a Padlet together, which is an online program.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (07:22):
So we have to look at it at new ways. You know, I think another challenge is we have some kids who are learning in class and some kids who are learning at home and how do you meet the needs of everyone at the same time the teacher are finding it very it’s time. It’s really hard to be there for, for so many different people. And I think so part of it is trying things and as I said, failing miserably, and I think that’s an important part of the learning process. Part of it is just getting used to the routine. And part of it is sort of giving teachers the space to, to know that I support them and that , you know, I can only ask you to try as hard as you can. I can’t ask more than that. And so if if they’re trying things and sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t, you know, hopefully they know that that that I, I, I support them.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (08:12):
And as long as we just keep trying to, to meet everyone’s needs the best of our ability, then we’ll, we’ll get there. It’s not the same as being in person. But, but there’s a, a certain understanding the times are different. So there’s a flexibility that, that comes on, you know, and I think the, the other piece is, is the things that make school amazing outside of the classroom mm. Where it’s clubs, sports teams, field trips and, and those rethinking how we’re doing them. So we, we thought figured out a way to do student council. So that’s gonna come back. Some of our field trips now are virtual field trips. There’s a definite loss. You know, we have kids in grade eight who are, you know, ready to be the stars of the basketball team or the hockey team. And, and it’s a loss for them that, that they’re not able to do that. And, and so some things we don’t have answers for, we’ve not yet figured out how to create a basketball team to compete against other schools. But we’ll, we’ll keep working at it.

Sam Demma (09:04):
I had a conversation with another educator who said, maybe this year, we just do e-sport tournaments and play against other schools on PlayStation or Xbox. And I thought it was a pretty unique idea, but it, it takes out the physical aspect of it. And a kid who may have been dedicated to basketball’s whole life. Maybe I didn’t play video games, and isn’t a good online eSports gamer, but so many unique ideas. You have kids hanging pinatas and building iron man suits. What, what can you share in terms of a story? I’m sure you have dozens over the years. What, what can you share of a story where a student has been impacted by something you’ve done in the school? And maybe it’s totally changed their life and education. Oftentimes we don’t even know the impact we’re having until 10, 15 years down the line. And they write us this letter that we keep in a folder on our desk. Have you had a story like that of a student and you can change their name for the purpose of this podcast? The reason I’m asking you to share is because an educator might be listening, who’s a little burnt out and lacking hope. And I think it’s those stories that remind us why education is so important.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (10:14):
So I had a unique opportunity. I’ve been out of the classroom for 10 years mm-hmm and last year we had a need for for some, for some teachers. So I went back into the classroom and I was speaking specifically when we went online. So from April, till the end of the year, I was teaching grade four classroom. So on top of it being the highlight of my day I got to connect with the students in, in in a different way that you don’t get to as an administrator, as an administrator, you’re sort of over, you know, you’re trying to oversee the whole school and making sure everyone’s safe and happy, but you don’t develop those personal relationships that you do if you’re the classroom teacher. So along the way we read, you know, I’ll share sort of a general thing, I think about the class, but then some feedback a student even gave to me that, that I think I didn’t even realize it had an impact.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (11:02):
Hmm. So in terms of the overall students, you know, I, I, I want my kids to be creative and, and explore, and we had read a story and they had to show the ups and downs of the main character in a way that, that worked for them. So one of them is into baking and he created, created a sheet of brownies and then showed the ups and downs to the icing that he did on, on the brownies that he took pictures and presented. It was amazing. Another one we, we, we played around with a program called Flipgrid. And so she made a video where she did like spoken monologue. I, I gave 10 minutes as the time limit for the video and that wasn’t enough time. So she had to do two videos where she went through the whole story just spoken model.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (11:45):
It was incredible. Other students, you know, created posters and, and other students like created these Lego cities to show what they did and they spent hours and hours on it. And so, you know, I hope that for all of my students, you know, I was able to help them find a love and education and, and finding their own voice in these projects and, and feeling that they put in their time and express themselves in the way that that that sort of meant to them. Now, I also had a policy where you, if students didn’t do great on the first try, I would give feedback and say, you know, here’s, here’s what I think you need to do to make it better. If you wanna do that, I’ll, I’ll take a look and give you a new grade. And I had one student who kept on doing that and she would say, you know, thanks.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (12:27):
I really appreciate that. And, and this and that, and, and she would always take the work and the feedback and then send it back to me. And at the end of the year, she wrote me a letter and just said, you know I really appreciated the fact that you gave me a chance to do stuff second time and, and make it better. Mm. I felt like I learned and grew. And and that made, I don’t know, it made school better for me. So it’s not like an amazing life changing story, Sam, but, you know, I think that little thing kind of made my day. I didn’t even realize that that had an impact on her. And here she’s telling me that that one little policy I had was, was a very impactful experience for at.

Sam Demma (13:02):
School, small, consistent actions make the biggest changes. Right.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (13:07):
Oh, I heard you say that. Absolutely.

Sam Demma (13:10):
That’s, that’s awesome. And when it comes to you know, bringing people in, you’ve been teaching now at the vice principal level for 11 years, how do you decide what specific types of messages to bring into your school, whether it’s in person or virtually you, you’re obviously very specific with the, the, the messages that you put in front of a young mind. So I’m curious to know there might be an educator listening who wants to understand that a little bit better, and maybe you have some insight to share?

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (13:39):
Well, in terms of messages that we bring. I guess, you know, we, it’s never something I decide on my own. We, we haven’t seen I would say one message that keeps coming back in terms of this current COVID time is we’ve been so overwhelmed by the resilience of the kids, the the commitment of the teachers and the appreciation of the parents. Mm. And so, you know, that that is a message that I want out there, you know, loud and, and clear like it, you know, there’s always, there’s always some issue here and there that we have to work through, but all in all, like the kids are just so happy to be back. They like every kid I’ve asked, do you like it better here with all the protocol for COVID or do you prefer to be at home, online learning every kid I speak to says that I’d rather be here wearing a mask so much better.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (14:27):
Teachers come to me every day and say, can I try this? Can I try that this didn’t work. So let you know, maybe this will be better. They want it to be a good experience for the kids. They really wanna do everything they can to help make the, the experience better for the kids and, and the parents. I get emails on a daily basis that, that say we are beyond impressed with how hard you guys are working to try and make this possible. And so, you know, the appreciation also goes a long way. They’re in a way they’re sort of our clients, right. We’re trying to make them happy and give ’em a program that I am at a private school. So we’re trying to make a program that they feel good about that they’re happy about. So I, I guess that’s the main COVID message, again, the resilience of the kids, the commitment of the teachers and the appreciation of the parents.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (15:14):
But then other messages, it has, it’s the same, whether it’s COVID or not, I mean, be a good person, be kind explore the world learn from differences. Have an open mind, have a growth mindset. Like the, these are all things that are common. Like we just want our kids in many, I, I, I say to teachers often, we’re trying to teach ourselves out of a job, right. We know we’ve done well. If we can set the stage where kids are, have the tools to learn on their own and that we’re on their side, maybe to guide them, but that really they’re driving the learning. And that takes a long to get there, but that that’s really our goal is to give kids the tools to, to learn.

Sam Demma (15:55):
Awesome. And if you could go back in time to your first year in education, but still know everything that you know now what pieces of advice would you share with yourself? There’s a bunch of educators listening who may just be getting into education, and this is their, or first year teaching. And they’re thinking to themselves, what the heck did I sign up for? what can you share with them through the years of, of, of accumulated wisdom through teaching?

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (16:24):
So if if you’re, if you see this as a job, you’re not in the right profession, mm-hmm, , it’s more than a job teaching the, the commitment you, you don’t go home, leave it behind you. And I’ve been reminded of that every day of my career. Mm-Hmm so that’s something that I, I would keep in mind and just, it would reinforce in me saying, well, you know, you’re doing the right thing, cuz you, you feel good about what you’re doing. Relationships, relationships, relationships, relationships, that is the most important thing in teaching have a in good curriculum is great. Having a cool technology that you use is great, but if you don’t have a relationship with the students, then it’s gonna be really hard to teach. And so that, that, that, that is sort of the, the main thing that, that drives everything else that I do.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (17:09):
So how do you do that? You gotta get to know the kids, you gotta ask and learn new things about them. And I keep asking them questions about it. So that is certainly something I would, I would remind myself as a, as a new year teacher who has the wisdom of someone who’s been teaching for a long time. And then, you know, the final thing is every day is different. Mm. Every day is different. And that sometimes the different is great and sometimes the different is, is brutal. But you know, if one day’s bad then, well, probably the next day is gonna be great. And so just a, a reminder that you never, if you feel stuck, you know, you’re not gonna be stuck forever.

Sam Demma (17:45):
Yeah. You went as an educator, you’re the main character in that story that you shared in grade four and you’re gonna have ups and downs. Right. And that’s a good thing to remind yourself of often, Seth, this has been awesome. Thank you so much for taking the time to chat. If another educator is listening, wants to reach out to you, bounce some ideas around what is the best way for them to do so.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (18:08):
What I, what do I do? Do I give you my email? Do I tell you the school that I’m at? Whatever, whatever works. My email is sgoldsweig@leobaeck.ca I’d have be, you know, more than joy to bounce ideas. That’s that that’s education, right? We keep, we keep learning from one another. And so the more ideas we have, the, the more positive we can do. Awesome.

Sam Demma (18:39):
I look forward to hearing about the finished iron man suit and more birthday parties in your school. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.

Dr.Seth Goldsweig (18:46):
Okay. Thanks, Sam, take care.

Sam Demma (18:48):
Awesome. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise, I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Dr.Seth Goldsweig

December 21, 2021 by Sam Demma Experiential Learning Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teaching Tips 0

Scott Mclnnis – Leadership Teacher and Teacher Librarian at Selkirk Secondary School

About Scott Mclnnis

Scott Mclnnis is the Leadership Teacher and Teacher Librarian at Selkirk Secondary School. Scott is passionate about helping students appreciate the fulfillment in helping themselves and their community at large. When Scott is not in the classroom you can find him outdoors, moving his body and doing something physical.

Connect with Scott: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Selkirk Secondary School

Adam Grant (Author and Thinker)

The Transcript

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Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Scott Mclnnis. Scott is the leadership and teacher librarian at Selkirk Secondary School. He is passionate about helping students appreciate the fulfillment in helping themselves and their community. Scott reached out about doing some programs with his leadership class and school community. We built a great relationship and it was an honor and a privilege to interview him today on the podcast. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Scott, welcome to the high performing educator. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself for the educators who are tuning in?

Scott Mclnnis (00:50):
Sure. Sam, thanks again for the invitation thrilled to be here. I, have enjoyed meeting you and having discussions about what you do for kids in schools and yeah, just thrilled to little bit more about with you about that today. So yeah, my name is Scott Mclnnis. I teach at Selkirk secondary school in Kimberly, British Columbia. I teach at grade 10, 11 and 12 combined leadership class. And I’m also the teacher librarian here. So I deal a lot with grade 12 careers, getting them prepped for university academic study blocks independent study courses, things like that. So a bit of a mixed bag. Yeah.

Sam Demma (01:30):
And what, what got you into education? Tell me a little bit more about your own childhood growing up, going to school and what led you down this path?

Scott Mclnnis (01:38):
Sure. Sure. it’s probably my earliest memory of being drawn into education was I, I I got involved in ski instructing when I, when I was living in my hometown in Ontario, just outside of Peterborough. And I remember I was, I was 15 years old and, and after getting my, my level one certification, they kind of thrown me to the Wolf, the, with sort of 15 or 16, four year old kids. And, you know, having just to come up with personal strategies of how to manage those kids, keep them busy, keep them safe, all that stuff. I, I just, I realized that, you know, not only that we could, we could also have a great time. I just, I, I kind of knew back then that I had a bit of a knack perhaps for with, with kids specifically.

Scott Mclnnis (02:29):
I, you know, after that, I, I, you know, admittedly was kind of a lost late teen and early 20 person. I went to university hoping to become a, an airline pilot but you know con enough nine 11 happened kind of the first week of, of my schooling. And so I went, you know, a couple years at university, not really knowing what I wanna do, studying history and other humanities courses that I was interested in and yeah, finished my degree. I had all my roommates and my friends were enrolled in an education program at that time. So they were kind of, they had their plans set and were moving forward to becoming teachers where I really didn’t have a plan. You know, I, I finished my undergraduate degree at ni university in north bay, Ontario. I, and I, I worked for a little bit kind of, kind of worked you know, more in the trades just kind of as a laborer and, and, and sort of just, you know, passing time, I guess, so to speak, trying to figure out where my niche was in life.

Scott Mclnnis (03:33):
And then I, I took an opportunity and kind of through caution the wind and, and decided to go to South Korea to teach English. I had a couple of friends over in Asia that were teaching and said, it was a great time. It was, you know, adventurous, you made good money. So I thought, you know I’ll give it a try. And I went over there working in an elementary school. They had a big influx at the time the government of South Korea was implementing having a native speaker and every public in the country. So yeah, I took a full advantage of that and just had a wonderful experience. You know, some of the best memories of my life are, are over in South Korea. I stayed there for two years. Really got my feet wet as an educator.

Scott Mclnnis (04:14):
Yeah. I came back, took my education degree again at Ning. And following that, I, I moved from Ontario here to British Columbia, again, sort of the same idea, sort of following a, a job opportunity at a small independent school here in Kimberly where I was teaching music and general studies to sort of kindergarten to grade six. An opportunity came shortly thereafter to become an administrator. So I was principal to school know by the time I was in my early thirties there which was again an incredible experience as an educator. And then I just decided to you know, sort of spread my wings a little bit and ventured into the public system where I became high school educator. So you know, at the secondary level, I’ve only been here for sort of three, four years, but I really love the love, the experience. I feel like it’s a different kind of energy. I didn’t have so much Gusto, I suppose, for you know, putting on snow pants and tightening boots and things as I did for sort of the intellectual challenges that, that high school afforded. I just, I just found it was sort of a change for me personally, that I needed. So yeah, I’m really happy. I made that choice. And here we are today.

Sam Demma (05:22):
Do you remember any of the, the Korean you learned while you were there?

Scott Mclnnis (05:25):
You know what, that’s such a good question. And there’s a, a great gentleman here. That’s a business owner in Kimberly that’s Korean, and I’ve been trying to speak a little bit more with him, cuz it was, you know, this is 12 years ago and I can still read and write, okay. It’s a very, it’s a kind of language that makes a lot a sense to read and write it. It’s very fanatic. But my speaking, I did admittedly kind of lose it and I’ve, I’ve been trying to practice with this gentleman, just gentleman young which has been a ton of fun. He, he get a, he gets a kick outta me, so yeah, trying to, trying to get back into it cause I really, I really don’t wanna abandon it. Totally. So no, that’s been a fun process as well. That’s awesome.

Sam Demma (06:04):
That’s so cool. Yeah. And you’ve, you’ve done so many different roles in schools, you know, not only different roles, but different locations, Ontario, BC, Korea. What do you enjoy the most about the teaching profession? Like what keeps you hopeful and motivated and inspired to show up every day and continue doing what you’re doing?

Scott Mclnnis (06:24):
You know what, I, that’s such a great question. I ask myself that a lot and I think it changes you know, it has evolved as I’ve become you know developed my career I suppose, but you know, now it’s definitely trying to help kids to make a difference and to, to, you know, set kids, especially kids that are vulnerable onto the right path in life and, and trying not to have them slip under the cracks a little bit. You know, that’s, that’s how I spend the majority of my time is going into my way to make sure that you know, I know that those kids have a tough home life or you know, they just have had bad breaks in life or they don’t have all the opportunities that most of the other kids have. I try to put forth as much energy as I can into helping them succeed.

Scott Mclnnis (07:12):
And for me that that’s the ultimate passion and enjoyment I get is, is helping other people you know, before I think it was, you know, as a younger man in my late twenties, it was more, you know, setting myself up for a career, maybe making money, buying a house. It was, it was more personal development in my, you know, just sort of setting myself up in general life where now is it’s, it’s all about the enjoyment of helping others. That’s where I find, you know, the meaning and passion of the whole thing. And I hope that continues until the, the day I retire.

Sam Demma (07:44):
Yeah, that’s awesome. And that kind of makes sense as to why you teach leadership as well. Right.

Scott Mclnnis (07:49):
It does. Yeah, it does. And it’s, you know, in the leadership class, there’s, it’s a mixed bag of everybody. You know I do get a lot of vulnerable of students in there that try to learn maybe some, some life skills. So it’s, it’s really important to me that they they’re heard and they’re given some opportunity to get out in the community, do some good things, cuz then they can also hear that passion that I’m talking about. Right. Helping other people they, they feel that sense of pride too. So, yeah.

Sam Demma (08:17):
And when did you start teaching leadership in your career journey and what actually kind of pushed you in that direction to take it on?

Scott Mclnnis (08:25):
Sure. Yeah. It, it wasn’t so much of a I guess a choice per se. It was part of the contract that I accepted here at SU secondary. Yes. And I just, I just found, it was one of those things that was meant to be when I got here. It was the vice principal at the time was teaching. There was only seven or eight kids and we were working outta the library. There, it was a new program at the, at the high school here. So there wasn’t, we were still developing the structure and the curriculum and all that stuff and I’ve, I’ve taken it and run with it. And now we’re, you know, full at 30 kids with a waiting list, full semesters and it’s, it’s really taken off. So yeah, I’ve, I’ve only been doing it now. This would be my fourth year with a co every year’s changed, especially because of COVID, it’s been kind of, you know, retooling how I do things, but I think it’s been great for me and, and, and for the kids to have, you know, some of them in grade 12, it’s their third time taking leadership and to, to try and develop a course that meets everybody’s needs, whether it’s your first time or your third time, I think has been a great challenge for me.

Scott Mclnnis (09:24):
So, yeah,

Sam Demma (09:26):
That’s awesome. And this will sound like a silly question but I think it’s important to ask, you know, for other educators listening, who don’t maybe even have a leadership class in the, or school or mm-hmm, have never been involved in leadership activities. Why do you think leadership is important? Like why do you think the class and the curriculum is important for the students that sit in your, in your class?

Scott Mclnnis (09:45):
Such a, a great question, Sam, and I think, you know, it’s not a program that’s offered at every school. I know in our district locally here, I’m the only one really that does it at this high school because it is, it is pretty demanding. So it’s, you know from a teacher’s perspective, there’s a lot of out of the timetable stuff that’s required. So I think it’s extremely important because it, I get kids out in the community sort of their, their summative project, so to speak their, their final exam is a community action project, or they’ll go out in small groups and, and, and have a a can drive for the food bank or they’ll volunteer at the youth center, or they will support the junior hockey team during home games, or just all these little different pieces that actually, you know, when we look at the, excuse me, some of the leadership theory that we learned throughout the semester, they really get to, to get their hands dirty and, and explore some of that in more detail.

Scott Mclnnis (10:40):
So yeah, for me, I think the importance of getting out there and, and understanding the importance of being involved in community is the biggest aspect of that course that I think kids can take away from it because it is a lifelong thing. You know, one, you, you understand that again, helping people in your community is an extremely valuable and important and fulfilling role that never leaves you. So I, I just think it’s really important for kids to learn that at a young age and hopefully they can pass that on to their families one day or in whatever other avenue they’re, they’re pursuing, because I do, I do know that they feel it important once they actually do it.

Sam Demma (11:19):
Yeah. And then it’s their job to make it cool. Right.

Scott Mclnnis (11:22):
Yeah,xactly. Everything in between is just about having some fun. Right. you know, just kind of the goal-setting piece and really understanding who they are as a person. I, I, I think, and, and, and, you know, definitely pushing people inside of their comfort zone. I get so many students in my classes who are like, I, you know, day one, they are just so nervous to get up in front of the other class and give a speech or a, a short presentation. And that’s, that’s pretty much all we do, you know, for our, our, our assignments in class is you teach kids about something that you’re passionate about or you know, we’ll look at some different examples of inspiring leadership from around the world. And, and so to see those kids that, that go from, you know, I can’t do this to, that’s not so bad. I can, now I can do this. Anytime I think is, is really cool for them to witness as well for their personal development.

Sam Demma (12:11):
Yeah. That’s so true. And I’m sure, or even you as a teacher probably had moments just like your students where you thought, holy crap, I don’t know if I can do that. And you probably had examples of other people, whether it’s mentors or, you know, veteran teachers, you know, kind of take you under your wing. And I’m curious to know if you had mentors along your educational journey. And if so, you know, do you remember some of their names and what they did for you that had an impact?

Scott Mclnnis (12:34):
I do. I actually, it’s funny cuz probably, I don’t know, a month and a half ago, I, I actually got in touch with one of my mentors. He was my high school PHED slash health education teacher and also my basketball coach. And I reached out to him, he’s still teaching at the high school I went to and he’s actually retiring this year. And just, just to get in touch with him again and, and just say, you know, hello, stop in how much I appreciated. You know, his, his passion spilling over into me. Like he taught he really more than anybody taught me how to be a man and how to be respond for my decisions and how to again, take responsibility over things. That for me, that’s the one that really stuck out early in my life. Again, I was, I was not the best student.

Scott Mclnnis (13:26):
You know, I wasn’t always doing the right thing or making the right choices. And he was one of those guys that just pulled me aside and said, smart enough, you got all the tools it’s time to use. ’em Like, you know enough’s enough kind of thing, but in a, in a very kind and gentle and, and supportive way. Mm. So yeah, Craig ne he’s, he’s the man out in Peterborough, Ontario at Thomas, a Stewart secondary he’s, he’s the guy that really sort of set me on a path for growing up more than anything else. But you know, as I got into the profession later when I started at again, the small independent school here in Kimberly, the founder, one of the founders at school Ursula, Solado, she, she was just so passionate about serving the community and serving kids that, that, that really just it, although maybe I didn’t realize it at the time, that’s also what I was all about.

Scott Mclnnis (14:19):
And I think she was just able to bring that outta me. She was so supportive, you know, there was times in my first you know, month as a teacher, I wanted to quit. I just found the planning so hard in the marking and was I doing the right thing, you know, having really tough days. And, and she was the one that was just like, yeah, just press on. Like, it gets easier every day. You’re in the right business. You’re good at what you do. And, and so, yeah, I’ll never forget her love and support especially early in my career. Sort of as a full-time educator, it was really, really important for me to have that. So yeah, those two for sure, really stick out in my mind and I’ll, I’ll never forget you know, the things they said and did for me along the way. Cause I, I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for them, for sure.

Sam Demma (15:06):
Shout out to Craig and Ursula yeah, you got it. That’s awesome. I think we also learn not only from other people, but from our own experiences. I think that’s one of the biggest Wells of learning we can pull from. And I’m curious to know what learnings you’ve had. Maybe there are some road bumps along your, you know, teaching journey or things that have happened in class or outside of class and you reflected on it and, and realized something that you might think could be beneficial to another educator.

Scott Mclnnis (15:34):
Yeah. I think, you know what it’s, especially when people are getting started you know, it’s, it can be, it can be a challenge in this business early on. I think it, you have to have the confidence in yourself to believe that you’ve made the right decision, you know, sort of for hopefully the rest of your career. Yeah. And I know like teachers have a, have quite a high burnout rate, but I think it’s, it’s that sticktuitiveness that you know, is, is extremely important for young educators. I know for me, it was, you know, I always had the message growing up, whether from my parents or from even the two mentors that I mentioned that, you know, what, when, when the tough, when the going gets cut, tough, the tough get going, sort of thing, you know, you can’t just fold and, and, and quit, cuz that’ll be your go to all the time when things get hard, you know, you have to face that and overcome challenges because you learn from it and you grow as a person that makes it tougher.

Scott Mclnnis (16:28):
And you know, I’ve had just lots of stories that like the at growing up where, you know, life wasn’t necessarily easy. But instead of just saying, you know, throwing my hands up saying I quit, it’s it’s press on. And I think, you know, even the decision to, to, you know, in my early twenties of packing up and going to, to South Korea, I mean that wasn’t, that wasn’t easy to, to be on your own and to haven’t make really, really hard to decisions on your own. You know, that’s what I try and, and instill upon the generation of kids these days is, you know, what, you have to try your best to have the good decisions, maybe outweigh the ones that you reflect on and think you had of, you know, you could have done better when it, when the times are tough. So yeah, I think, I think more than anything, it’s just, it’s just to be resilient, you know? And especially, I know it’s, I know kids have a tough time these days with, you know, a lot of different things that I know I didn’t necessarily have as an influence in my life. There’s a lot of different social pressures and anxieties and things out there. But I think if we can build resiliency in kids at an early age, then it’ll really help them moving forward.

Sam Demma (17:39):
So, awesome. I love that. And I couldn’t agree more, I think, yeah, COVID was a, an example of trying to build resiliency, right. We were all going through the same situation, definitely in different boats, as someone else told me, you know, some people had yachts and others had little dinky boats with no paddles. Right, totally. You know, the situation was similar. And the fact that we were all faced with a challenge and we had to figure out a way to overcome it. And I think that although it’s been so difficult for students, it’s actually building the resilience with than them. And I think it’ll make their futures a lot easier. for it. I think they’ll be a lot resilient, more resilient in their, in their future career choices and also their own other difficulties that might come up in their life. I’m curious to know if you could go back to year one and kind of impart some advice on, you know, year one, education, Scott what advice would you give you younger self?

Scott Mclnnis (18:31):
Oh boy, that’s a really good question. I think, I think to take advantage of opportunities that are, that are presented, you know and, and to give, to make sure that you’re doing self care, you know what I mean? Like, as, as a, and just to clarify, Sam, you’re asking as a first year educator, you’re asking what’s, what’s what I go back and tell myself. Yeah. So yeah,

Sam Demma (18:52):
First year, first couple years.

Scott Mclnnis (18:54):
Yeah, definitely. It’s number one is save all your stuff you don’t ever think that any resources that you’ll, you know, never use again, won’t be helpful cuz they are. And, and number two is just make sure that you have time for yourself, right? Like we, we always do talk about that, that you know, you can’t be at your best self unless you’re feeling, you know, the best that you can. Mm. And I think, again, it’s, it’s a tough job in the first couple of years, you have to make sure that you, you know, when it, the time rolls around that you put things away and go home and, and do something that you enjoy because again, it can be overwhelming at times and, and, and some of the demands can be quite the pressure cooker, but it’s, it’s, you know, for me, I, I don’t think I did a great job of that.

Scott Mclnnis (19:39):
And it was you know I think it did have some impacts just on, on, you know, personal relationships and maybe a little bit of my personal health, but you know, after hearing that from, from more seasoned educators, like, you know, it’s got you just, you gotta, you gotta shutter down man, and, and take some time and, and, you know, make sure you’re skiing on the weekends or, you know, whatever it is to, to take that time for yourself. Cause it clears your head and there’s, there’s, there’s, you know, no question about it, that it, it works. So I think if I could change something, it would just be that, you know, take a little more time for myself and, and things would’ve worked out just fine also, and not be so sort of stressed about doing the best job all the time. Cause there’s a lot of factors that are outta, outta your control as an educator as well. And no matter how well you plan for a day, it’s not gonna work the way you thought. So yeah, just make sure you’re at the top of your mental game, I think more than anything by pursuing your passions, for sure.

Sam Demma (20:32):
I love that. I think there was a quote I saw by Adam Grant and someone’s auto email responder that said play is not a, excuse me, , that’s cute. The auto responder said play is not something that should be an after the fact thing that you use when you have time play is actually something that exists. It should exist on your to-do list. And I’ve read that quote. And I was like, whoa, that’s so true because we actually put ourself into an amazing mental state when we are enjoying life and you’re gonna do better work when you’re enjoying things. right.

Scott Mclnnis (21:08):
Totally just, you know, I agree with you, Sam, not only should it be on your list, but it should be near the top. I mean, it’s, you know we are better when we’re, when we’re happy and when we’re, you know, fulfilled doing the things we want. So no question about that. Ah, I love

Sam Demma (21:22):
It. I love it. Scott, this has been a great conversation. If an educator’s listening feels a little inspired or wants to ask a question or figure out how they could grow just as nice a beard as yours although no one can see it right now. What would be the best way for an educator to get in touch with you and reach out?

Scott Mclnnis (21:37):
Yeah, sure. Email me anytime. My school email is Scott.McInnis@sd6.bc.ca. That’s my school email reach out. I’d love to hear from anybody, especially those teaching leadership, share some resources with you. Yeah, just have a general chat. It’d be always nice to, to develop those networks. So yeah, anytime.

Sam Demma (22:02):
Awesome. Scott, thank you so much. Great chatting with you on the show and keep up the great work.

Scott Mclnnis (22:07):
Appreciate it Sam. Thanks again for the chat.

Sam Demma (22:10):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

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