About Carman Murray
Carman Murray is on a mission to empower teachers and educators to prioritize their well-being, both inside and outside the classroom. With over 20 years of experience, Carman transitioned from classroom teaching to mentoring and supporting others on their healing journeys. Her passion lies in helping educators cultivate healthy habits that transform feelings of overwhelm into renewed energy and fulfillment.
Carman’s workshops blend both the professional aspects of teaching and personal development, offering a holistic approach to educator growth. As a dynamic and authentic speaker, she delivers engaging workshops and talks that inspire educators to rekindle their life balance. Beyond her work with teachers, she volunteers at Rockyview Leadership Academy and contributes to the Canadian Student Leadership Association’s events. Carman is also the author of Teachers First: A Guide to Avoiding and Overcoming Burnout, a resource dedicated to supporting educators in their journey toward wellness.
Connect with Carman: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Facebook
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Artwork for Carman Murray — Educator, Speaker and Author of Teachers First: A Guide to Avoiding and Overcoming Burnout
THE HIGH PERFORMING EDUCATOR PODCASTCarman Murray — Educator, Speaker and Author of Teachers First: A Guide to Avoiding and Overcoming Burnout
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Resources Mentioned
Canadian Student Leadership Association (CSLA)
Teachers First: A Guide to Avoiding and Overcoming Burnout
The Transcript
**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.
Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam, and today we are joined by a very special guest. We have crossed paths multiple times and I’m so honored to have her on the show here today. Carman Murray. Carman, thank you so much for joining me. Thank you.
Carman Murray
Sam. I’m so excited that our paths have crossed in the past more than once and that I could be here with you today. You are…
Sam Demma
…doing so much amazing work across Canada, supporting educators and teachers and all human beings with their wellbeing. And you have a passion for education because you’ve spent over 20 years of experience in the education industry. You’re speaking at events in Kelowna upcoming, you have a book. Just tell everyone tuning in a little bit more about who you are and why you’re passionate about supporting the wellbeing of others.
Carman Murray
Thanks so much, Sam. So I love supporting other people with their health and wellness. I recovered myself from burnout. I taught for 15 years and hit a wall and decided I didn’t want to do it anymore and my body actually wouldn’t let me do it. And I actually was inspired at an Alberta Student Leadership Conference by Orlando Bowen when he talked about, and you might have been at that one, I can’t remember, he talked about letting people know there was a different way. So I really want to let teachers know that they do not need to stay in that rut of being burned out and doing everything for their students and doing everything for their classrooms and just putting themselves on the back burner until it’s too late. Because there’s so many amazing things we can do in our classrooms with our students and do them ourselves, and we don’t have to wait until we’re finished teaching, we can live a life alongside our teaching career.
Sam Demma
You mentioned you hit a wall of burnout, and I would imagine there are some educators listening to this right now who may be feeling the same way. How did you navigate that time in your life, and what were some of the things you did to improve or get out of that situation?
Carman Murray
Well, I maybe shouldn’t say this out loud. I left the teaching profession.
Sam Demma
Okay. This is not an advertisement.
Carman Murray
No, this is not an advertisement because I know like there’s so many teachers out there that are so passionate about what they do and they’re so good at it and they have such an impact on students’ lives. And what I would say to teachers that are feeling that they might be on the road to burnout, or just in general exhaustion, because that seems to hit before the burnout happens, is start doing things just for yourself. Hang out with people who are starting to have a different mindset than just students, school, all of the things you have to do. There is this balance which looks not balanced. It’s not this equal balanced scale. It’s like, how do we find the time to do some great things for ourselves and really set school aside?
Carman Murray
And then I feel like the other part of the equation, Sam, is how do we bring some of those things into our classroom? How do we take 10 breaths with our students each time they walk in our classrooms and sit in our desks so that it calms their nervous systems as well as ours? How do we take our students outside for five minutes a couple of times a day that aren’t recess, where they can just have some downtime because we live in such a fast-paced world? And you, I’m sure, have experienced this with all your speaking and everything that you’ve got on the go. How do we actually give the kids permission to slow down rather than trying to speed them up all the time? Because I really feel like we’re pumping out into our world anxious, overwhelmed students who might not have all the tools they need to function. And that comes from our classrooms and their own environment. I don’t want to just say it’s just the classrooms, but how can we combat that as teachers to give them those tools to calm their nervous systems down in the classroom so they can access their prefrontal cortex?
Sam Demma
Why did you take this knowledge and put it into the book? At what point did you say, like I feel this urge to write and to publish? Tell me more about that book and what an accomplishment.
Carman Murray
Well, I was not the kid that dreamed I was gonna write a book since I was 10. I had a thought, I’m like, oh, maybe I should write a book. And then I started hanging out with a few people who had written books. And then I actually, I joined a publisher with a coaching program and just started to write. To be honest, the writing part was the easiest part of it, the marketing part is way harder. You probably know that, may or may not have been your experience. But I really wanted teachers to know that they’re not alone. Because sometimes in our classrooms, we feel like we’re all by ourselves and we’re the only one that has experienced the exhaustion and the overwhelm that’s going on. Then there are things that you can do that don’t require a bunch of extra time. You’re already doing lots of them, you just need to slightly tweak them and tweak your mindset because I always used to feel that I was never doing enough. And that was something that was going on in my mind. Now I’m like this is what I’m doing and it’s great and it is enough. And so as soon as I switched my mindset and it’s really easy to say it’s so much harder to do, I don’t want you to think this is a magic pill, but to start to shift that mind of, I am doing enough, my students are doing well, and this is how I’m helping them rather than feeling like we’re always behind.
Sam Demma
You mentioned the thing you did that helped when you were really burnt out was take a step away. For the educator listening who’s feeling a little bit burnt out and maybe is not having the most positive mindset right now, but knows that like, I’m not, like, I’m not leaving. I don’t want to, I don’t want to leave. What would you advise them to think about or start shifting and changing to rebuild a positive relationship with their workplace?
Carman Murray
That’s such a great question. And there’s a few avenues you can go. So I feel like, so I mentioned this to you when we were talking before we started recording, is I do run a group for teachers and I do coaching on health and wellness as well as classroom dynamics. And so finding yourself a group like that, reaching out to me, is one place to start. Sometimes, though, we need to take time off. Like there needs to be a time away so we can actually fully recover from whatever it is we’re recovering because I feel like there’s so much more than just what goes on in the classroom. We as humans have a life outside. We have all of our own experiences that we’ve collected, and we might be dealing with some of our own trauma and unresolved issues that are being triggered in the classroom. So I feel like if teachers can kind of start to become aware of what’s going on with them, and doing some things like, like where’s your sleep at, would be another question I would ask is, where’s your sleep at and what’s going on in your nervous system? Are you able to respond to things like pause and kind of assess the situation or are you like reacting right out of the gate?
Sam Demma
The group you mentioned, is it for educators or is it open to any stressed and overwhelmed human beings? I know a few people that might not be teachers.
Carman Murray
That is a great question. So it’s open to everybody, actually. I kind of have half and half. I have half educators, and then I’ve got some people who are retired educators, and some people who are not educators at all. Because, like you mentioned, our world causes us a little bit of stress and a little bit of overwhelm. So it’s a place for anybody to land. I do have a particular component of it that is just for teachers, where we meet two or three times a month and we land and we troubleshoot teacher issues and then there’s other components to it where we work on our health and wellness and our mindset and other life challenges that show up.
Sam Demma
Let’s say a teacher is burnt out, they are returning to work after taking a little bit of time off to rebuild that relationship with themselves, improve their sleep. What boundaries do they need to put in place when they start at work again to ensure it doesn’t snowball the way it did the last time?
Carman Murray
Yeah, great. So I would say, so boundaries that teachers can set are, what do they have to offer? Like, what is your time at school? What’s your capacity and who’s your team? That’s another big one. I’m really advocating right now for teachers to use your classroom as a team. You don’t have to do everything. Have your students do their stuff. There are so many things that students can do that teachers just automatically do. And I believe we’re actually taking away life skills from students by doing everything for them.
Sam Demma
And, oh, I had another one.
Sam Demma
That’s a great one, though. I’m thinking about it right now, and I think it’s very similar in parenting. It’s like, let the student, let the young person fall in their hands a few times, let them get involved, let them get their hands dirty because it’s gonna help them build their character as well.
Carman Murray
Absolutely, and it also, like when we talk about boundaries, we also need to look at where are we over giving? Because if we only have, like if we only have 10 units of energy a day and we give away 14 or we use up 14 every day, we leave ourselves at a deficit. So who are the people in your own home that can help you keep things on track, right? It’s like, I had a discussion yesterday with annoyance about my son who left his stuff everywhere and he’s almost 19. And so do I pick it up, like, right? Do I pick it up and just do it myself because that’s easier or do I give him a little bit of flack and go, okay, buddy, deal with your stuff because he’s old enough to, and all of those things. So boundaries, boundaries are huge. And I think even those of us who aren’t teachers or those of you that are listening that aren’t teachers can also struggle with boundaries. What are you saying yes to? What are you saying no to? And I think more importantly, what are you saying yes to that you don’t really want to?
Sam Demma
It’s almost thinking like an entrepreneur and delegating the things in your life that are not bringing you joy happiness and fulfillment but still need to get done. What are some of the things that you think are top of the list hanging fruits that an educator or a teacher may think about letting go control over and delegating to a student or a colleague or another team member that might lighten the load a little bit?
Carman Murray
So back to having the kids involved. Yeah. Students, right? If you’re in a room full of 30 bodies, one of them is going to think that writing on the whiteboard is the best thing ever. And the other one doesn’t want to touch anything to do with it. Right? One of them is going to be super excited about organizing the bookshelves, the other one’s not going to touch it with a 10-foot pole. So I would say really talk to your people, like talk to your students. What is it that they want to do? How do they want to help? And I even believe that with like project planning. When I taught, I loved planning projects with my kids. In fact, one of the times we planned a project with my parents, one was a pilot for a private jet company, and we got to go to the hangar and sit in. Oh my. Right? There’s so many resources out there that are available. So how can we tap into that team and delegate to our students based on their interests as well as teaching them that there’s some things that you don’t really want to do that you still have to do in life, right? Somebody needs to empty the garbage. And then the piece of delegation, I also think that often schools are wanting teachers to do more, especially I live in rural Alberta and so there’s not a lot of teachers in my kids’ school, so there’s only enough teachers to go so far. So where are you accessing community involvement? And when teachers say no to things so they’re not over capacity enough times, then they have to start looking somewhere else. And if teachers are always saying yes and they don’t have the space or capacity to do it, then they’re like, oh, we’ve got the expertise in their building, right? Sam said he would do that. Sam said he would do this. Sam said he would run the lunch club and the library club and the game club when Sam really doesn’t have time to do all that. So where can they find other resources? And most places have resources in their cages.
Sam Demma
That’s such a great idea. I’m even thinking, what if at the start of a fresh semester or a new group of students, you wrote down on the whiteboard all of the things that have to be done in the classroom that are repeatable tasks that are typically done by the teacher themselves, which could be given as a responsibility and a growth opportunity to one student each in the classroom. And it’s like an auction, you go down the list and it’s like an honor to do the tasks. And people bid on it with their excitement. And maybe a few of them are assigned because no one may want certain tasks, but I think, I think there’s something there, like auctioning off, auctioning off classroom tasks to your students.
Carman Murray
Well, and I love that, because I love the auction part of it and I’m going to take it one step back, is brainstorm that list with your students. Yeah. Those things that they’re going to think of that you don’t think of.
Sam Demma
I love that, that’s such a powerful idea. What do you think are some of the, I’m going to shift gears for a moment, in regard to building relationships with students, we talked a little bit about classroom management, but what do you think are some of the best practices to build stronger relationships with young people as a teacher?
Carman Murray
That’s a really great question, because when you look at classes that have 46 kids in them, that’s a lot of kids, and you probably have four classes like that. For me, and this is my disclaimer, I’ve always taught in rural schools and I went to a rural school, is like when I taught, I knew all 325 kids in the building because we were a K-12 school. But there’s components of what are those kids good at? What conversations can you have with them that aren’t just about their assignments and what’s late or what’s not late? And what good questions do you ask them? It’s just like, how’s your day? What’s their response? And then is there more to read into that response? And I also feel like there’s opportunities within your classroom to find that information out. I volunteer with the Rocky View Leadership Academy and work with leadership kids and they’re phenomenal. And I love the experience. And we’ll often, we usually start in a circle with 30 to 60 kids and do a one word check-in. And so each kid goes around, they’re like exhausted, excited, tired, overwhelmed, you know, all the things that they come up with take less than three minutes. And it gives me as a volunteer, as well as the lady who runs, the idea of where the kids are all at, and it gives the people around them an idea of where they’re at. I also feel like you can give assignments that give students the opportunity to express where they’re really at. And real conversations. I loved doing assessment with students. I know it takes a little bit longer, but it really allows me, per se, in their head as to, you know, if I was going to give you a, this is a bit of an old scale, but if I was to give you a mark out of 10, what would you choose that mark to be? And they might choose like a six out of 10. And you’re looking at it going, I think maybe that’s more like an eight out of 10. It’s like, okay, why would you give it a six? And then they kind of unpack what goes on in their brain about their own learning and why they did certain things. So it gives you an idea. So those are some of the things that I’ve done and I would do in a class to support kids in getting them to know each other. Getting to know them as a teacher, but also getting them to know each other. Because I think that in a class of 46, you want your students to have more touch points than just you.
Sam Demma
On that idea of getting to know each other, phenomenal ideas around building relationships with the students. How do you think that you build relationships with your colleagues as an educator and a teacher as well? I find that sometimes classrooms can become these little silos in a bigger school building, where people aren’t collaborating as much as they could benefit from doing so. How did you build those relationships and leverage other educators when you were also a teacher?
Carman Murray
So we used to have a meeting once a week with, there was, I taught grade six and there was a grade five teacher and a grade four teacher. And we would meet the three of us once a week at lunchtime. And lots of times it was on the fly, and sometimes somebody couldn’t make it, or somebody showed up 10 minutes later or whatever. And we sat in a different room and just kind of like we had a bit of an agenda, different conversations we were having about what was maybe working, what wasn’t working, what projects are we working, how can we support each other, so that we know we’re not alone in that building, and we can rely on each other for two-minute conversations or 20-minute lunches so that you can get to know each other is one of the ways. And the other thing that I also did, and sometimes I got funny looks for it, is we know that sometimes a staff room is a place that can be challenging to be in, because sometimes it’s a negative zone or whatever it is. And I would sit at a table where people were having a conversation about other students or not staff members, but often students, and it would be like, I’d sit down and be like, oh, what was something you did that was cool today? And bringing the focus back to that actual person rather than them talking about students, because we know what happens. We know there is a need for a place to vent about them, but it’s just like, how do we use that staff room to build relationships with other staff. And I got odd looks all the time, and I’m okay with that. But I also am not okay to sit in a staff room where there’s a table that’s loud that’s talking about students, and not necessarily in a great way.
Sam Demma
Yeah, I also feel that it’s so important that you put a little bit of a protection around your energy, not only as an educator, but in any field, and recognizing that if those types of conversations make you feel less than and make you feel burnt out, then there’s no need to participate in them, right?
Carman Murray
I think there’s, yes, the part of don’t participate in them, but then I feel like for me, anyways, there’s a responsibility. Shut it down. Yeah, so it’s like, let’s talk about something else. Or what’s something cool that kid has going on? Or like just to start to redirect the conversation, which is so powerful because kids struggle enough. We don’t, right? We all, and I don’t say we all struggle enough. It’s helpful not to be talking about other people. And I think if you’re listening to this and you are like, oh, I’m that person, just start different conversations.
Sam Demma
I’m sure there’s multiple people listening to this right now thinking, this Carman Murray lady is speaking my language and I want to read her book and I want to hear more about her group. So can you tell us how people can connect with you, get in touch about the group, and check out the book as well?
Carman Murray
Yeah, absolutely. So my book is called Teachers First, a guide to avoiding and overcoming burnout in the classroom. It’s available on Amazon and it’s also available in Chapters. And my website is www.healthyteachers.ca. And my group, if you’re interested in my group or even having a conversation with me, there’s a chat with me button on my website. Just click on that and book a time and we can chat and see where you’re at and see if I can help you or support you or if we’re a fit. Because sometimes we’re not and sometimes we are. Absolutely no pressure in having a conversation and just getting connected. I also am on Instagram.
Sam Demma
Nice.
Carman Murray
And Facebook and LinkedIn.
Sam Demma
Thank you so much for investing the time to share some of your insights on the show. I hope you continue to spread this message as far and wide as you possibly can. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk again soon.
Carman Murray
Absolutely. Thanks so much, Sam, and you as well. You’re doing amazing things in this world and creating a great ripple effect.
Join the Educator Network & Connect with Carman Murray
The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education. By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators. You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.
