Educator

Betty Norton, M. Ed. – Chief Academic Officer at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School

Betty Norton, M. Ed. – Chief Academic Officer at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School
About Betty Norton

For almost 30 years, Betty Norton worked for Broward County Public Schools where she taught middle school students and later concentrated on special populations included Gifted and Exceptions Student Education (ESE) classrooms and Title I schools.  

Motivated to bring even more value to the students of Broward County, Ms. Norton pursued and earned a National Board Certification in 2004 and a master’s degree in Curriculum and Instruction in 2007, while concurrently dedicating her time to increase academic achievement in the district’s middle and high schools. She worked at the district level from 2005-2016. She worked for Core Curriculum as a curriculum developer and then in 2009 transferred to the dept of Accountability. In both cases, she was assigned to low-performing schools (D-F schools) and led a team of district support to evaluate, design, and implement school improvement plans and met with great success. Norton also provided training for faculty and administration. 

Keen to learn more about virtual and remote education, Ms. Norton also spent seven-and-a-half years working for both Broward Virtual School and Florida Virtual School before embarking on her career at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School, where she served as Head of Schools for Coral Springs. When Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School opened in 2020, Norton was tapped to lead the global virtual campus and since then, has become a go-to expert in online, remote and virtual education, having been featured in Thrive Global and numerous family and lifestyle blogs.  

Ms. Norton earned a Bachelor of Science in Secondary English Education from the University of Central Florida and a Master of Science from Capella University. 

Connect with Betty Norton: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Broward County Public Schools
Broward Virtual School
Florida Virtual School
Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we have a very special guest on the show. Betty Norton is a veteran in education, almost 30 years. She is currently sitting in her office in beautiful Florida where it is sunny outside and I’m sitting in my office where it is minus five and snowing.

Sam Demma
Betty has an unwavering passion for education, personalizing the experience to individuals to meet their needs and help them excel and exceed. Betty, thank you so much for coming on the show here today. Thank you so much.

Betty Norton
It’s my pleasure.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about the work that you’re doing in education today and what got you into education in the first place.

Betty Norton
Okay, well, those are two very big questions. Do we have time for both? What I do in education these days. So I actually am the chief academic officer for several private schools that we have here in South Florida.

Betty Norton
We have six physical campuses and one virtual school that we use to kind of overlay across all of our campuses. We have students all around the world who attend our virtual school. And we also have students who are visiting the state of Florida for their sports and maybe attending any one of our XSEED Prep campuses.

Betty Norton
So that’s what I do now. I do oversee them. And my focus is doing whatever we can to make those schools better, to be able to provide students with a personalized learning education that really fulfills their needs and helps them achieve their goals. And the biggest reason why I got into education

Betty Norton
is because I have a big passion for it. I know that everyone says that, but I genuinely enjoy working with young people, especially middle schoolers and high schoolers. I graduated college going into business and then very quickly switched gears and went straight into education and I’ve never looked back.

Sam Demma
You mentioned the importance of creating personalized educational experiences and journeys for students. What does that look like for your schools? Great question.

Betty Norton
So at our schools, we have, let’s say for example, our schools open from 8 to 3.30 every day. And we personalize our students’ schedules all the way down to when they will be on campus. So a traditional campus will have students coming in at 8, leaving at 3.30, bells will ring and they will switch from class to class. They only have a certain amount of time with

Betty Norton
each of their teachers and let’s say for example if you’re waiting to get to number 17 because that’s the only question you really had a problem with, it’s really difficult when everyone else kind of gets a turn and perhaps the bell rings before you even get your shot at it. So at XSEED our students have flexible schedules. Some of our students come maybe three or four times a week. They may be on campus for about five to six hours, and they get to work with their teachers individually,

Betty Norton
and they also get to work with their teachers in small group sessions. So one of the ways that we customize our curriculum for them is meeting them where they are and then being able to create a support system for any foundational skills that they may be lacking. We help remediate those throughout the day. And then while they’re working with their teachers and working in small groups,

Betty Norton
they’re accelerating and moving forward. So we have the ability to have some students who may take a little bit longer to earn their high school diploma and say they might go an extra semester. But the opposite is also true.

Betty Norton
We have plenty of students who wish to graduate early because they wanna pursue their careers or the ideas and dreams that they’ve been planning. So sometimes we have students who graduate early.

Sam Demma
And recently you opened a few more schools. Tell me a little bit about it.

Betty Norton
Yes, that was quite the endeavor. We opened three new campuses this August and they are spread out throughout South Florida. We have a new campus in Boca, one in Palm Beach Gardens and one in Fort Lauderdale. All of them were quite exciting and quite challenging

Betty Norton
to open, trying to do three things at once is always a challenge. But we are hoping to tap into those communities and again, allow those students the opportunity to get the education personalized and have those needs met. Our schools tend to be rather small. Our schools are less than 100 students at each campus. And we do that by design so that the teachers can go ahead and personalize things and work students in small groups, if not one-on-one.

Sam Demma
How do people find your schools? Has XSEED been open for a long time? Tell me a little bit more about the process of a family getting their kid involved in one of your campuses.

Betty Norton
Yes, so we opened our doors back in September of 2017. And honestly, the fastest way for them to find us now is typically word of mouth. We have a very strong community build where our families will share with their friends and let them know what the experience has been for their child and so they’ll come out and visit our campuses. But otherwise we do

Betty Norton
what everybody else seems to do. We participate in conversations, we go to conferences, we have our website and Google and so forth. So we do have an active Instagram page and we get a lot of our families through our social and through word of mouth

Sam Demma
When you think of the students you serve at exceed across all campuses How do you measure the success of a student is it? I guess it must be based on their own goals and dreams and if you if you were able to help them move closer to those, but are there any students that stick out in your mind when you think of the impact that XSEED has had on a student’s journey?

Betty Norton
Yes, so you’re right. We do have a different, different ways of measuring, but quite honestly the first and foremost way that I measure student success is based on how happy they are. Many of our students are coming to us because they either feel like they’ve been left behind at a traditional school, whether it be private or public. Larger schools have a difficult time, and no fault to them.

Betty Norton
I used to work public school for about 20 years, so I understand the needs of the classroom teacher. But sometimes you just need to have a little bit of extra time every day to help you do what you need to do. So some of our students really come to us because they want that flexibility in their day,

Betty Norton
they want a little bit of a later start, and they want more of that one-on-one experience so that we can help them with those foundational skills. So honestly, seeing students go from being a little sad or depressed or feeling like they couldn’t achieve things or just even basic things like,

Betty Norton
miss, I’m not good at this math, I’d like to skip it or move on to something else. And then going in, let’s say six to seven weeks after they start with us and see them participating, not only just joining, but participating in a group session and getting up to the board and running through the math and showing you that they know what they’re doing is kind of an amazing task. I think one of the biggest memories that I have with XSEED that really made me proud of what we do and what our team has been successfully doing for the last few years, especially.

Betty Norton
I’ve been to probably 50 or 60 National Honor Society inductions. Between all the schools that I’ve ever worked in and working at the district level, you tend to be invited to things like that. And it’s always a very nice affair and everyone’s quite proud of their child. But at Exceed,

Betty Norton
since so many of those students were already struggling at their previous schools, I’d never seen so many parents just kind of move to tears with sharing so many stories of how their child, if they stayed at their school, they would have never been part of National Honor Society because they just weren’t getting the time and attention that they needed to be successful. So to see something that became so normal for me and then run into so many families that were just crying

Betty Norton
and brought every relative, the biggest event just to celebrate their child’s success really was a huge moment for me. It made me feel like we really were heading in the right direction and providing this level of education for kids.

Sam Demma
It’s so cool to hear about the impact the programs are creating in the lives of families and their children. I know that the reason many educators, heart-centered individuals, get into education is because they want to make a difference. Sometimes you don’t hear about it for a really long time, and more often than not, might not even realize that you are making

Sam Demma
a serious contribution to the life of a young person and their family. To attend an event like that and hear the stories must be such a gift. It sounds like you’ve spent years in public education, you’ve now spent multiple years in private education.

Sam Demma
You’ve also spent years teaching and leading virtual education. Can you talk a little bit about what it means to create a great experience virtually for students because school boards, especially in the pandemic hit, really struggled to maintain engagement and provide a good experience virtually. But I think it’s a beautiful opportunity to connect students from all over the globe with virtual experiences.

Sam Demma
And I know you’ve been doing it very well. No, thank you. And I mean, Sam, I’ll have to say, just this experience that you and I are currently having,

Betty Norton
that you’re in Canada and I’m in Florida, and we’re able to have this conversation, and I feel like we’re in the same room just chatting with each other. So the virtual education, I think, that’s probably the biggest piece right there.

Betty Norton
If you can help the student feel like they are live and in person and they’re engaging, regardless of where they’re sitting, I think you’ve really, you’ve kind of like overcome your first hurdle, if you will, in the virtual world. The other is over communication. I think that when you have a physical environment, people get a lot of their

Betty Norton
physical cues, you know, they look at each other, they can see how someone is feeling and so on, but in the virtual world, it’s kind of radio silent until you tap into them. So it’s really important to have different engagement opportunities for our students. We have social hours for them. We have activities that we sometimes run. We have virtual parties. We have all kinds of things that help them still be a part

Betty Norton
of our virtual community. They can even volunteer online and participate in donations if they wanted to donate for Toys to Tots or what have you through that virtual platform. So I think the key there in order for the students to feel really engaged is to have those connections

Betty Norton
and have those opportunities for the students to be a part of something, whether they can physically be there or not, they feel connected to everyone else in the group.

Sam Demma
Throughout your educational career, which mentors have you had or resources that have been really instrumental in your personal and professional development? And if so, what did you learn from those things or those individuals?

Betty Norton
Yes, that’s a really good question. So I’m gonna have to say my very first resource is the library. Ever since I was in elementary school, any time I wanted to know a little bit more about something rather than, and maybe this is probably because I did go to public and private school when I was younger, but going to your teacher and asking 20 questions wasn’t always ideal.

Betty Norton
So being able to go to the library and check out books and talk to the librarian and learn as much as I could about a particular topic really helped me stay curious and really helped me figure out how to tap into things and be a self-advocate and self-reliant. I think those skills really have transferred into my academic career and my professional career. But if I were to talk about any one mentor that I think really helped change things and

Betty Norton
helped mold me is Dr. Janet Allen. She was my college professor, and I kind of used to call her my college mom. So she’s the person who guided me through the entire process, helped me land my first job in education, and really saw that I had a passion for working with students, especially underprivileged students,

Betty Norton
who may have been attending Title I schools or lived in difficult environments. And me growing up in Newark, New Jersey also kind of gave me that opportunity to feel like, yes, I know what it’s like to be in a tough neighborhood and go to school.

Betty Norton
So she really understood what I wanted and saw that talent in me and made sure that I was in every rough school I could possibly work in so that I can make the greatest impact. And I really appreciate her for that because if it wasn’t for her, I don’t know that I would have taken advantage of those opportunities myself.

Sam Demma
Does she know how much of a difference she’s made in your journey in life?

Betty Norton
I hope so. I ran into her probably about seven years ago. She was presenting at a conference and I just walked up to her and said, hey, do you remember me? And she said, yes.

Betty Norton
And I said, I just wanted to give you a big hug and say, these are all the things I’ve been able to accomplish because you put me, or helped put me on the right path. And we both cried a little bit over that and reminisced about the good old days.

Betty Norton
But so I think to a certain extent she knows. Does she know? The full extent of it I think as teachers we never really know the power that we have over someone or how far our reach is, even when we run into them, really. They share their successes, and we say that’s fascinating. But to have that inside of you and every time you think about that person,

Betty Norton
you can get warm fuzzies and feel like they were your greatest cheerleader and supporter. I don’t know that we ever know how great that impact is.

Sam Demma
I think it’s an important reminder that we don’t know, and it’s equally as important a reminder to reach out to those individuals and tell them. I have a teacher who in grade 12 totally changed my life and trajectory, and fortunately he lives close to home,

Sam Demma
and we’ve stayed in touch over email, and once a year I try to eat a lunch with him and his wife on their porch and their dog. And every time I go, I get emotional. And I tell him and his wife how thankful and grateful I am for their presence in my life growing up.

Sam Demma
And I just think that the world needs more of those moments. And if you still have contact with Dr. Janet, it would be a beautiful reason to reach out and let her know. And if you’re an educator listening to this and you haven’t heard from a student or a colleague about the impact you’ve created on their life, just because you haven’t heard doesn’t mean you weren’t instrumental in that person’s personal and professional development. So please keep showing up and keep going and start the cycle. If there’s someone who had an impact on you

Sam Demma
and you’re listening to this, reach out to them. Use this as a reason to do so. I’m curious, Betty, you seem like someone who is extremely driven and dedicated to supporting young people and their families and advancing them in their education and their personal dreams and goals. How do you fill your own cup when you’re not at work to ensure that when you do show up,

Sam Demma
you’re giving the best of yourself that you possibly can? Well, I think the most important thing is to strike a balance between what you do for

Betty Norton
yourself and what you do for others. And a balance doesn’t necessarily mean 50 50, right? Today, it might be 100% exceed and 0% Betty, but tomorrow, it might be 90% Betty and 10% exceed, right? It’s knowing that balance, knowing what the priority is of the day and where you’re going to make the most impact. When you first start off, especially doing something

Betty Norton
at this scale, you feel like you have to be there for every single person, and you want to be a great leader, you want to be able to talk to them and say, I have an open-door policy, reach out to me, talk to me. But if you allow that, you could easily have 65 to 70 people reaching out to you on a daily basis,

Betty Norton
trying to troubleshoot things. So I think the biggest thing that I try to do, especially with our heads of schools and our leadership team is delegates, right? I want them to be able to provide and support our teachers by becoming experts in different areas. So even though I oversee everything,

Betty Norton
I do have them helping and balancing the load. And I try to take off as much as I can off their plates so that they can spend their time working on the job itself, working with the families and the students. And I take care of the business side of things or managing any issues that we may have, our curriculum, our facilities,

Betty Norton
and so forth. But I think having that downtime at home, spending time with my family, I have a daughter, a son, and a beautiful husband who are incredibly supportive of me, who understand that sometimes I have to work on a Sunday at 6 in the morning, and understand that, you know, I make up for it in other ways. We have family time, we always have dinner together, I do have a few things that are non-negotiables, if

Betty Norton
you will. I think those are important to have that set of standards in your work life, but also have some boundaries in your personal life.

Sam Demma
Saying no is so difficult in my own personal life. I know that as an educator, you’re pulled in hundreds of different directions too. How do you build that muscle to set the boundaries and stick to them when you really want to serve and support all the time

Betty Norton
You make a lot of mistakes. I’m gonna be honest with you. I mean, it’s not it’s most certainly not a perfected craft I think it’s always a work in progress and I think it will be until forever Yeah, it really is, you know, sometimes you sit there and go jeez. I probably shouldn’t have extended myself there I really wanted to be better at this and it really only takes one or two opportunities where you feel like you could have been at 100% to make you feel like, okay, I need to really focus because being here for the students and our families is what’s most important to me. Being here to support the teachers is also incredibly important. So once you have

Betty Norton
that experience, you say, all right, I’m going to wake up every morning and get myself organized. So that’s exactly what I do before I even hop out of bed. I go through my calendar, what’s going on, what do I need to do, what do I need to fire off and delegate or ask someone to assist with so that I can clear the path and be fully present. That’s something that I’ve been focusing on,

Betty Norton
especially over the last two years, with everything that happened with COVID and social media and all the things that are going on, wanting to be present is incredibly important for me. So I do, I sit with people, I like to sit with you face-to-face.

Betty Norton
I ask for people to turn off their cell phones and let’s just have 20 minutes where you and I are engaging, we’re present, we’re here, we’re not worrying about all the things that are happening around us. And let’s focus on the items that we wanna get to, to make a better tomorrow for everybody.

Betty Norton
But it is difficult.

Sam Demma
The presence piece is huge. I think about my personal relationships and when I feel most seen, heard, understood and connected to others. And it’s when we are sitting together face to face or engaging in an activity, our phones are off or not in sight.

Sam Demma
Simon Sinek, there’s a picture or a video of him sitting on stage, and he pulls out his phone and holds it in his hand and waves it around while he’s speaking, and ask the audience, did it change the way you feel about me while I’m holding my phone speaking to you right now versus when it was hidden in my pocket. And as a viewer watching this video online, I answered the question in my head like saying yes,

Sam Demma
because it made me feel like I wasn’t the most important thing, that you’re holding onto something else. Maybe there’s something you’re thinking about related to your phone or a task you have to complete rather than being present with me.

Sam Demma
And it’s something I’ve tried to carry forward in all of our relationships, whether personally or professionally. When you think about XSEED and the new year’s right around the corner, what are some of the objectives the school as a whole,

Sam Demma
across all campuses are focused on, or some of the things you’re very excited about as we move forward?

Betty Norton
Yeah, so I think I have to start that by saying that I’m already in planning mode for fall of 2025, right? So I’m looking at our curriculum, our staffing, our facilities, the resources, what do we need to do? Are we adding more classes? Are we taking away classes?

Betty Norton
What are we gonna do to help provide opportunities for our students, field trips, guest speakers, and so on. So I’m very much ingrained in fall of 2025 right now, to the point where I’ve actually put in my calendar that Christmas is a week away and I need to shop. And every single day I have a notification

Betty Norton
that says go Christmas shopping, because I’m just so living in the future right now. And we have so many great things planned. We have, you know, with all of our campuses kind of ramping up for the fall, we wanna be able to provide

Betty Norton
those unique student experiences. I’m very big on experience versus giving someone an actual gift, I’d rather you have an experience or a moment, so we’re focusing on what do we need to do to take that classroom, that day-to-day and add to it, right? How do we take this opportunity

Betty Norton
and let you have a real life experience through a guest speaker or a field trip or even just a virtual tour? Those are incredibly powerful as well. You can visit anywhere in the world on a virtual tour. And I think it’s quite fascinating

Betty Norton
to be able to do that with students. But of course, continuing our work with the rigorous curriculum, we are a college prep school, so we want to make sure that we have strong relationships with the colleges and universities, especially those that our students wish to attend. And then supporting our community, having more opportunities dedicated to volunteer work and being able to work with everyone in our, you know, surrounding cities and towns by donating our time. So those are our big focuses.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure having you on the podcast to talk about your journey through education, some of your beliefs and philosophies around education and the cool things that are happening at XSEED across all the campuses. If someone is listening to this very inspired,

Sam Demma
wants to share a note of gratitude or appreciation or ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to reach out and get in touch with you?

Betty Norton
Absolutely, I would love it. I like talking shop, so anyone who’s open to chat, I’m always up for it. But I think emailing me at bnorton@xceedprep.org would be fantastic.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Betty, thank you so much for your time and your presence. I appreciate it and I wish you all the best in 2025 and beyond.

Betty Norton
Thank you so much, Sam. It’s been really great speaking with you today. It’s been really great speaking with you today. Thank you for your time.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Betty Norton

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 13, 2025 by Director of Education Education Educator Entrepreneur School Administration Virtual Education 0

Richard Primrose – Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School

Richard Primrose – Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School
About Richard Primrose

Richard is an educator, school administrator, coach, athlete and father. He has been the Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School for seven years, and has also worked as the Head of Physical Education and Acting Senior School Director. His professional interests include creating a positive school culture and student leadership development, and in his personal time he is a runner, a traveler, and is the father of two young boys.

Connect with Richard Primrose: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Michaels University School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Richard Primrose. You can’t see this because you’re listening virtually or in your ears. But Richard is currently wearing a Christmas hat with lights all across it because in a few hours is going to be a very exciting event happening at St. Mary’s University School in Victoria, BC, where Richard works. Richard is a runner, a father of two, a culture fanatic for amazing experiences for young people in school buildings. Richard, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.

Richard Primrose
Yeah, thanks for having me, Sam. I’m really excited. One small correction, the St. Michael’s University School.

Sam Demma
Oh, what am I saying? St. Michael’s University School. That’s a big correction. I appreciate it. And I actually love humanizing folks on the podcast, so I keep mistakes like that in the actual interviews as a way to just remind people that we all make little errors, and I think that’s what makes us more human. Thank you for that correction, and please tell us a little bit about yourself and what actually got you working in education in the first place.

Richard Primrose
Yeah, so my role at my school is assistant director of the senior school responsible for student life and leadership. So the student life aspect, I guess the most important thing I do at the school is creating a positive, safe environment

Richard Primrose
where students can come to school and feel safe and learn and feel like they belong and feel included. So that’s the important scope of my work. And then that involves, you know, all the things that a traditional vice principal, I guess you would say, would do,

Richard Primrose
ranging from all the conversations around discipline, because students do make bad choices, and the important thing is how they learn from them. And then the other end of that spectrum is the leadership, and that’s where a lot of the joy in this work comes, is supporting our student leaders

Richard Primrose
in making all the wonderful, awesome things that happen at the school come to fruition. And I really intentionally talk about supporting student leaders because at my school, one thing our leadership program really values is enabling students to act and giving students the support

Richard Primrose
and the resources and skills to actually get out there and do the real work. So a lot of the stuff you see happening at the school is almost entirely student-led with teachers in the background supporting them and coaching them. And it’s interesting, you talked about including that small error in the podcast. That’s part of our ethos at the school is that these things are not going to be perfect

Richard Primrose
and students are going to, along the way, make mistakes in their leadership and learn from them. So sometimes the events they put out are not 100% polished and necessarily world-class, but the real learning is in the students when they are in action and making small mistakes and getting better from those so that’s a part of our philosophy as well. Is there a reason

Sam Demma
you’re working in education today? Did you know when you were growing up that you would be serving young people?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, that’s a great question. My mom taught kindergarten and grade one. So from an early age, I was exposed to schools and she was a wonderful, beloved teacher. So I think that always planted a seed. Education runs deep in my family.

Richard Primrose
My grandma was a preschool teacher and I have other family members in education as administrators as well. So I suppose it’s in my blood in some ways and that seed was always planted. So at a young age, I suppose I could see myself doing it. And then I had my background growing up playing sports is just a huge part of my development.

Richard Primrose
As a younger kid, I played everything. And then as I got, you know, as a teenager, really focused on baseball and basketball. So a lot of seminal experiences there. And I think my background in sports sort of nudged me in the direction of education. I did go through a phase where I thought law school might be a good fit for me and kind of through university was I met up. But in the end, I did a physical education degree with a minor in geography. And I think one of the reasons I wanted to get into schools was to be involved in sports and be involved in coaching. And then as I got my job at St. Michael’s University School and I realized how much

Richard Primrose
I enjoyed it, how much fulfillment there is and how much purpose there is in education, I began to realize that this really is where I want to be. And my pathway has ranged from being a PE teacher, being a director of athletics for a year, and then kind of naturally led into administration when opportunities came up. So my job looks a lot different now, but it’s still working with kids, supporting kids as leaders.

Richard Primrose
So that’s sort of a bit of a rambling explanation as to how I got here. So I, yeah, I think the seed was always planted, but as I moved along in my education and sport career, I realized the place I wanted to be.

Sam Demma
And the role you’re in today allows you to work so closely with young people, despite the fact that you’re not sitting in their classroom. But the impact is massive. I was fortunate enough to visit the campus at St. Michael’s University School and meet many of the staff and the students who were all

Sam Demma
so kind and well-behaved and welcoming. These spaces are absolutely beautiful and also very inclusive. I felt like I was at home, despite the fact that I was pretty far away from home. So what do you think has contributed to that culture of belonging and kindness at school?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, that’s really great to hear, Sam. I appreciate that. It’s nice to hear that our students made you feel that way because that’s important to us. I think we’ve been very intentional about creating that kind of environment. Equity, diversity, and inclusion is a priority at our school and we’ve created a lot of language around that, that common language that we use. And right from the first day, our senior school students arrive on campus, they each are handed a little business card that’s got our equity, diversity, and inclusion statement on it. So right away, they’re seeing language around our beliefs surrounding creating a place where we feel like they belong and that we actually celebrate and embrace differences and diversity. So day one, they get the little card that’s got our statement on it, which was co-created with students, including our Pride Alliance. And then on the back of the card, there’s some resources that they can reach out to if they happen to be struggling with their mental health or with belonging. So I guess part of that is just when they get here, seeing the language, having people use it, and knowing right away that it’s one of our core values around belonging.

Sam Demma
The staff, I found, were also very welcoming and close-knit. I had a great experience with the lower school as well. I’m forgetting the individual’s name who was working with me at the time in this space, but everyone was so helpful and welcoming. And the educators themselves sometimes, in my experience, forget the impact they’re creating

Sam Demma
in the lives of young people. Maybe a student in their classroom doesn’t tell them until 10 years later when they graduate from the school and come back and let the teacher know. Or sometimes they never tell them, but the impact they’re creating is real. Do you have any words of advice or wisdom for an educator right now who’s heading into the holidays or starting the new year

Sam Demma
and is feeling a little bit burnt out, like they’re not making a difference?

Sam Demma
Yeah, have you ever felt like that before

Sam Demma
and what advice would you give them?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, you know, in education sometimes it feels like, I’ll use a bit of a training metaphor here, that we’re doing intervals. And, you know, we’re just coming out of a really intense interval here and now we’re about to get a break. So I think looking at it through that lens for educators taking your two or three weeks and really practicing self-care to recharge the batteries is important. So identifying the things that work for individuals to practice self-care. For me, it’s getting out for runs, it’s making sure I’m getting outside and moving. I love to run. I’m not necessarily very fast, but I get out there and do my best and it makes me feel good. It sharpens my thinking. It helps me manage my stress. So running and the other one is getting in the gym and throwing some weights around is good for me as well. But I think if people are looking at things that help them with their wellbeing, exercise has got to be one of them. And what else is it? You know, like, is it picking up a book and carving out time for yourself to read? And I like to read real old school paper books.

Richard Primrose
You know, that works for me getting off screens, but intentionally carving out that time. And then of course, spending time with family, friends, loved ones, Christmas is great for that. So I guess really it’s going into these holidays with a bit of intentionality to make sure you’re prioritizing the things that keep you well and make you feel good.

Sam Demma
Well, this is so important. Sometimes I neglect certain habits in my life. And when I return to them, it almost smacks me in the face like, oh my goodness, this is what I was missing this entire time because I was so focused on other things and work output that I forgot to pour into myself. And I think educators or any individuals who are in heart-centered work where you’re always trying to help and support others can sometimes fall into that trap as well. It sounds like running and exercise is one of those things for you. How do you balance the demands of work and also family? You know, you have two young kids.

Sam Demma
I’m sure they keep you busy. How do you manage the balance between everything?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, I mean, it’s a challenge. And to be honest, I probably would like to be spending more time doing my running and having workouts right now, but it’s just a matter of prioritizing and making sure you’re not finding yourself wasting too much time or procrastinating

Richard Primrose
and really trying to go in with a plan. And I talk to my my student leaders a lot about this being intentional, having a plan and then having some kind of system in place to to track that. So, again, with students, I talk a lot about how are you organizing yourself? Like, where are you making your notes? Where are you having your to do list and things of that nature.

Richard Primrose
So I think, obviously, leaders have to have some way of keeping track of their priorities. And if you can sort of weave in personal priorities as well and get that on your list of things to do, and even sometimes, if you can schedule things like that, schedule a workout, schedule a run,

Richard Primrose
schedule a coffee with a friend or a colleague, that can be a helpful way to make sure you’re including that in your healthy habits and routines. Because I think one thing is safe to say that everyone at some point in time slips out of their best, most positive routine and you have to reflect on how things are going and just make those small changes.

Richard Primrose
Sam, I know you’re big on small, consistent actions. And I think it’s a good thing to, when you’re reflecting on how things are going to go back to those small actions that help set you on the right track. You know, there’s a famous book, Atomic Habits, talks about habit stacking, right? So, if you can start off with small things, sometimes the big habits fall on top of that. People love to talk about the value of making your bed, for example, starting off the day

Richard Primrose
on a positive note and building upon that. I talked to our students at my school about wearing their uniform properly and how that starts the day off on a really positive note. You can check off something that you’ve accomplished, as small as putting on your uniform, and you can build upon that and it builds momentum.

Sam Demma
I had a soccer coach when I was 14, 15, 16, who would stop practice by blowing his whistle in the middle of a game if somebody’s shirt became untucked. And we wouldn’t know what was going on until everyone paused and looked down at their own shirts and one of my teammates would recognize, oh, his shirt fell out, so he’d tuck it back in

Sam Demma
and the game would continue. And this coach of mine had so many principles based around that nature. We would show up to practice and there was this long cobblestone pathway. If you walk the whole pathway,

Sam Demma
it would take you like two minutes to get to the field. If you just cut on the grass, it would take you like 15 seconds. So sometimes, you know, when I was first joining the team, I would naturally cut and I’d walk on the grass and maybe a few times my head coach didn’t notice, so he didn’t say anything, but there was one occasion where I guess you watched me walk along the grass instead of on the cobblestone path. And I got down to the field and I was shaking all the coach’s hand to say hello and he said, Sam, walk back up there and walk down the cobblestone path. And I laugh about it now, but in hindsight, I’m so grateful that I had those experiences because he really taught us that the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. And I think it’s important that we bring good intention to everything that we choose to do, especially when we’re young and we’re building our viewpoints and our perspectives of the world. So I think that’s such a valuable thing that you’re sharing with the students. Are there other principles or ideas that you often talk about with young people that maybe other educators can think about sharing with their students or their schools?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, well, first of all, I love that story. I love the idea as a sport, teaching life lessons, even small things like cutting corners. I talk about that with my rugby guys in training. Same thing, don’t cut small corners, right? I think the other theme that I’m really into these days is the idea that people, in particular students and teenagers, are anti-fragile. So the notion behind that is that not only are people resilient and able to overcome obstacles and challenges, the idea behind anti-fragility is that they actually need those obstacles and those challenges and some pressure and some stress to fully develop and to reach their full potential. And if we’re not experiencing those types of positive challenges, we’re not actually going to reach our full potential. So it’s the idea that people are anti-fragile and need those obstacles in life to overcome and learn from them and grow from them. So that’s like the next step, I think, from the idea of resilience.

Richard Primrose
And I think there, you know, sometimes we’re in a culture now where people tell a story to themselves that they are somewhat fragile, and I’m trying to push back a little bit on that and say that it’s okay to have experiences that stretch you, that push you, that are hard, and you’ll be better because of them and you need them.

Sam Demma
I think it’s such an important message. And the idea of challenges forming us is something that I resonate with because I had some major challenges in my life. And in hindsight, looking back, I wouldn’t change the challenges because they made me the person I am today. They also introduced me to so many other amazing human beings that I wouldn’t have met if I didn’t have

Sam Demma
that challenging experience. Can you think of challenges you’ve had in your life when you were a student or an educator or a parent that when you look back at, you say, wow, I really needed that in my life too because it changed my perspective or shifted something about the way I show up?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, when I have these types of conversations, I very often go back to my experiences playing sport when I was younger. So as a baseball player, so this is sort of when I’m, I guess, six years old to 15, baseball taught me so much about how to manage pressure and how to move beyond those types of things and be able to perform. And it taught me that I can do hard things. So I was a pitcher, so being up there, and as a pitcher, you’re controlling the game, you’re having to pitch strikes, everyone’s watching you. That was my first real bump in with pressure and stress. So that taught me what that feels like and that I was able to actually do it and do hard things. And now later on in my career, that transfers over to having to speak in big venues and things like that, that are still out of my comfort zone. But I often go back to those moments when I was pitching as a 13, 14, 15 year old and what that felt like, and then I was able to do that. So now I can do this. And then using another example from sport, I think about in high school basketball, I didn’t go to this school, I went to a different school. But I had two coaches with very, very different approaches and philosophies towards coaching. And I had one coach who really used fear as a motivator and I didn’t respond very well to that, but my other coach was much more focused on building relationships, being positive, caring about his players, also discipline as well. Like he was the tuck your shirt in type of guy, but I just responded so much better to the coach that really made the effort to build relationships and to serve his players and not lead with fear like the other coach. So that shaped me significantly in terms of how I approach
being an educator, being a leader and being a coach. I definitely move more towards being a relationship builder I think, or at least I try to be, and as much as I can being a servant leader.

Sam Demma
I can’t thank my coaches enough for the experiences they gave me in sports. I also had some absolutely phenomenal coaches who are foundational in my learning and growth and development, not only on the field, but also off the field as a human being.

Sam Demma
And I had some coaches whose style of leadership in some ways taught me what I don’t wanna do in terms of leading other human beings. And both were, I think both were valuable. You would talk about anti-fragility, this idea that we need challenges.

Sam Demma
I think one of the aspects of challenges a lot of people avoid these days are difficult conversations. You know, it’s hard to have certain conversations, but those are conversations that we need to have and they unlock so much opportunity and growth, personally, and within our relationships. You’re someone who has to have difficult conversations sometimes with students and also other staff members. How do you, how do you have a difficult conversation with someone that deep down you wish you didn’t have to have?

Richard Primrose
That’s a great question, Sam. I mean, I guess right from the outset, I’d say that they’re never going to be easy. They should challenge you and they shouldn’t feel natural, right? Those hard conversations.

Richard Primrose
But if I’m coaching students to have these conversations, it’s something I do myself is you have to be prepared. So the harder the conversation, the more time you should really think about exactly what you want to say, the points you want to make, even down to the point of if it’s a big one that you’re really feeling some trepidation about, getting someone who you trust who’s either a colleague or even a mentor and having a coaching type conversation with them before you even enter the conversation. One of the things that you can do entering a difficult conversation is you can really plan well how you want to open it and how you want to make the person feel as you start that conversation. And that’s important because if you make the person feel defensive or if you make them feel like they’re being attacked, that’s going to take the conversation down a path that is probably not going to lead to a positive outcome. So, you can control how you open up that conversation and make the other person feel. Now, where the conversation goes from there is where you have to be nimble and responsive. So, some of the advice I tend to give people as the conversations evolve is you have to really be focused on listening and trying to understand where the person is coming from when they are speaking.

Richard Primrose
Often, I think people go to a place of trying to think about their next move in the conversation or the next thing they’ll say, but really you have to move away from that as much as you can and try and be curious, ask open-ended, calibrating questions to the person and really find out where they’re coming from to try and get to a positive outcome as best you can. So those are a couple little tips I give my students when I’m working with them and coaching them on difficult conversations. The reality is very few people are masters of those conversations, and there are certainly tough ones that I have still, and often I will debrief after the conversation and can recognize things I would have done differently or things I said that maybe didn’t take it down the path that I wanted it to go. The key thing is preparation, going in really curious and asking questions, and reflecting and learning from those conversations as well. It does – it gets easier as you have experience with those conversations, but it never gets easy.

Sam Demma
It makes me think of the work of a stand-up comedian who prepares for their set, delivers it the best they possibly can, and then sits down with a blank piece of paper to rip apart how they said half of their jokes because they know they could do it better next time. And you do it over and over again. I’ve had a few difficult conversations in my life and it’s a skill that I’m continuously trying to improve. So I appreciate you sharing that information. I know that in a few hours here, you’re gonna be sitting in a student-led, student-created assembly. As you wrap up this conversation, do you wanna talk about that assembly very briefly and maybe some of the things you’re excited about into the new year?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, so this assembly is probably just the most fun, high-energy, crazy assembly we have at our school. So we have holiday dress all week long and kids are decked out in their tackiest Christmas sweaters today. There’s blinking lights everywhere,

Richard Primrose
Santa hats all over campus. And this is just a really fun one. Again, it’s going to be essentially emceed by our two head prefects. And they’re awesome. They’ve done a great job this year. But they run with it.

Richard Primrose
They’ve done the planning. And what you’ll see today is going to be, again, really fun, really engaging. It’s not going to be necessarily a polished professional level assembly, but it’s going to be great and you’re going to see the real work being done, like the authentic leadership in action from our students. So there’s lots of different student parts in the assembly.

Richard Primrose
Obviously we have students performing. And at our school, it’s a school tradition, we culminate with the 12 Days of Christmas song where each grade will sing one of the 12 days and for the grade 12s it’s almost a seminal moment in their career at SMU where they get to sing that 12th day Christmas and you’re going to see streamers flying and horns and drums, but what you actually see is pure joy from those grade 12s.

Richard Primrose
So it’s one of my favourite things we do at the school and I’m really excited about it. And in the new year, you know, well, I’m looking forward to more of that. Our grade 11 students are now thinking about What I kind of call our leadership season at the school. We have a whole program they go through in their grade 11 year building up to Applications to be leaders at the school whether that’s council heads Prefects which is our school leadership council or heads of houses for our boarders who live on campus and they will do an application, put their name forward, and ultimately, it’s students and faculty who vote on those positions. So it’s a democratic process that we have at our school. But for a lot of kids, they’re taking that courageous step right now to prepare their applications and put themselves out there and find out what that looks like.

Sam Demma
It sounds like an exciting time. I hope the assembly goes really well and the new year is off to an amazing start. Keep up the great work you’re doing, keep lacing up the running shoes when you have the time to do so and pushing those weights. And I hope to connect at some point in the new year. Richard, if someone is listening to this right now and they want to reach out or connect with you or have a conversation, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Richard Primrose
They can probably find me on our school website. That’s www.smus.ca and reach out that way. That’s probably the easiest way to get in touch with me. I’m always happy to engage in conversations around life at schools, leadership, anything I’ve talked about today.

Richard Primrose
So yeah, that’d be great. And thanks so much for having me, Sam. What a pleasure. You know, when you came to our school, the energy you brought was really incredible. So if anyone’s listening and thinking about bringing Sam in, he was great. So thanks so much for what you gave to our school community.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it. I’ll talk to you soon my friend. Keep up the good work.

Richard Primrose

Yeah, thank you Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Richard Primrose

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 6, 2025 by Education Educator School Administration 0

Andrea Michelutti – Principal at Laurelwood Public School

Andrea Michelutti – Principal at Laurelwood Public School
About Andrea Michelutti

Andrea Michelutti is an experienced administrator with the Waterloo Region District School Board, where she has served communities since 2008. Over the years, she has worked in a variety of schools, gaining extensive experience and insight into the diverse needs of students, staff, and school communities. Andrea believes her role as an administrator is to “Uplift, Uphold, and Support” every person she serves. Guided by this philosophy, she fosters an inclusive and empowering environment where individuals are encouraged to thrive. Andrea is deeply committed to leveraging the strengths of her staff, enabling them to be their best selves while delivering excellence in education and care. With a passion for student success, Andrea inspires young people to reach and exceed their hopes, dreams, and goals. Her dedication to nurturing growth, resilience, and achievement has made her a respected leader and a source of inspiration for students, colleagues, and the broader school community alike.

Connect with Andrea Michelutti: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Waterloo Region District School Board
Laurelwood Public School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today I am very excited. We have a special guest who is full of full of energy, Andrea McAloody from Laurelwood in Waterloo. I’m so excited to have you on the show to talk about all the amazing things going on at the school. Thank you so much for for coming on.

Andrea Michelutti
I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Sam.

Andrea Michelutti
I appreciate you coming to our school last year, and our students still talk about you. They talk about your red backpack. They talk about always being positive and thinking about what we can do better. So, thank you for this opportunity.

Sam Demma
Since I’ve been at the school, I hear there’s a 10-classroom addition that’s been built and that students are taking the initiative to make it a very hospitable experience, a new, beautiful space where every student feels welcome. Tell us a little bit about what’s going on in the school right now.

Andrea Michelutti
So we are very fortunate. We received ministry funding for a 10 classroom addition because our population keeps increasing. We’re over 700 students. And when it opened this year, we opened to fanfare. The architects really worked hard

Andrea Michelutti
so we have the consistent building, the consistent paint colors, the consistent floor. But what we noticed was that our students took a lot of pride in our building. Our students really focused on what’s on the walls, how are they seen, and what are those really great things that they can do.

Andrea Michelutti
They talked about having, you know, a class meeting and how the third environment is what is needed to make sure they feel successful.

Sam Demma
In addition to the addition on the school, tell me a little bit more about how this year has been so far.

Andrea Michelutti
This year has been absolutely incredible. We started this year with more students than we’ve ever expected, and our students have really been working on this idea of hospitality. It came from my conversations with some students in grade eight, and we focused on those opportunities

Andrea Michelutti
of what they can do every day to make others feel welcomed and accepted. So I always say to my students there’s three things that I need to do. I need to support all of our students. I need to uplift all of our students. And I need to uphold or uphold the high expectations, support all of our students, and uplift. So when we talk about uplifting, we’re talking about like greeting our students,

Andrea Michelutti
making a welcome environment. And I had a group of grade eight students come and say, we need to make sure all of our new students to Laurelwood also feel the same way.

Sam Demma
And was this a student-driven idea? Like they approached you and said, hey, we have to do this, or how did it all come about?

Andrea Michelutti
So when I first came to the school, I went to visit every class and I talked about uplift, uphold, support. And when I first arrived, there’d be days where I’d walk the halls. I was new, where students wouldn’t say hello to me. And I said, I expect you to say good morning to say hello. And at first I thought, oh, this is going to be a little silly. Nobody’s going to buy in. And they bought in. And so we’ve been doing that for about a year and a half. And this September,

Andrea Michelutti
our students came to me, a group of boys came and said, we need to make sure our new grade sevens and our new students also understand the importance of greeting each other. I also had some form where students come back and say they’re at new schools now and they don’t feel the same way. And they’ve also approached their teachers and principals to say, how come you don’t greet us at the door? What can you do different? So it’s that slow momentum. But listening to student voice, especially our grade eight students,

Andrea Michelutti
wanting that environment shows that we’re on the right track.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you’ve built quite the culture and community at the school. How do you build this culture of belonging in a school building?

Andrea Michelutti
That’s one of those tricky pieces. So a few schools back, we really focused on that idea of how do all students feel welcome? And so what we did at one of my staff meetings was I had all my teachers go around and take pictures of what the environment looked like

Andrea Michelutti
and how it created a welcoming environment. And so we put a slide show together, I thought it was great. But then we went to the next level and we had all of our students go around and do the same activity to see the adults in the building

Andrea Michelutti
seeing the same things the students are seeing in the building. And we realized there was some things that were the same, but the students really focused on relationships with teachers. They wanted to take pictures of adults

Andrea Michelutti
that they felt that they were safe with and that they can care that that felt cared about And that was most interesting So knowing that I did stumble with my few decisions before because we weren’t too sure where we were going When I came to the school, I really focused on that student voice and those relationships Why I think we’ve been very successful is because we’re talking openly about it and I’ll take student feedback, even the feedback that’s really hard, I listen to them and see what I can do to improve.

Sam Demma
One of the other programs I’ve heard the school has put a major focus on improving is with special education and the mental health of students. Can you tell me a little bit about that this year also?

Andrea Michelutti
So, being a former special education teacher and a former student where I was in a special education program. I know that many of our students always felt a little awkward because learning was hard for them. They had to learn differently. So with my special education team,

Andrea Michelutti
we really talked about what we can do differently to really target our students in kindergarten, grade one, and grade two to fill in those gaps. And we noticed that our students were feeling more successful.

Andrea Michelutti
We focused on their assets and how can they use their assets to improve their areas where they needed a little more improvement. So I’m thinking about a student in the primary grades. Reading is really difficult for her. And what we really focused on was her ability

Andrea Michelutti
to be an amazing dancer and amazing presenter. So we talked about those really strong strengths, and then we moved it into her reading, and she’s already made huge improvements in reading where now she comes to school every day. So by focusing on making students feel good

Andrea Michelutti
about themselves, really connecting on their strengths, one of the side effects, or one of the outcomes, is better attendance at school. We also changed our educational assisted model from being somebody who just jumps in to support kids, to being joy builders.

Andrea Michelutti
So when EAs come in, they are the ones who are there to bring joy to the classroom. So before, some kids would be like, oh, there’s an EA in the classroom. I hope they don’t take me to work with them. We now, our kids all want to work with the EAs because, again, they’re focusing on students’ strengths. And how can we just get that 1% better every day?

Sam Demma
It strikes me that you’re someone who’s been so passionate about education and serving young people and creating welcoming communities. Did you know when you were a student growing up that you wanted to work in education or what did this pathway look like for you?

Andrea Michelutti
When I was younger, I always wanted to be a teacher, but I also wanted to work in business and I wanted to have those, you know, two jobs combined and I never knew what I wanted to do. In high school and in university, I had a chance to work with two Ontario Hockey League teams. I worked with the Sudbury Wolves and the Peterborough Peets. And those were those opportunities that taught me that skills of hospitality, relationships and team building.

Andrea Michelutti
And then I was able to tie that into my passion for always being a teacher. When I became an administrator, it kind of fell in my lap. I was very new to education. I believe I was about seven years in, and unfortunately my vice, the vice principal at the school got sick,

Andrea Michelutti
and at that time there wasn’t many people interested in going into leadership. So my principal tapped me on the shoulder and said, would you be interested in doing this role for about two weeks? That’s it, two weeks.

Andrea Michelutti
Now I’m at 17 years, which is incredible.

Sam Demma
What has been foundational in your professional development as you’ve worked in schools for over 20 years? Have you had mentors or resources that have been helpful?

Sam Demma
And if so, who are those people

Sam Demma
and what did they do for you and what are some of those resources?

Andrea Michelutti
So every time, like once I started in education, I really looked to different mentors. One of my biggest mentors was Charlie Smith. He was my first principal in Markham. And he was an athlete. He was always in the school,

Andrea Michelutti
and what I learned from him was being visible in the building and building those really strong connections at the same time as having that academic excellence. Under his leadership at his school, our EQAO scores for grade three were very, very low. We were at the bottom of the school board, and within three years, we were fourth in the school board.

Andrea Michelutti
And what I learned from him was good teaching, good relationships, resulted in great outcomes. Another one of my great mentors was a principal named Kristen Phillips, and she really taught everyone the importance of being kind, being present, but really pushing student achievement. It was a school where our academic scores were very low. And again, under her leadership,

Andrea Michelutti
we really targeted small group instruction, finding student strengths and moving on. But my biggest mentor ever was the general manager of the Peterborough Peaks from 95 to 99. He was there much before me and much longer after me, but his name was Jeff Tuey. And I just saw how he always treated everybody with kindness

Andrea Michelutti
and respect. It didn’t matter if you were, you know, just a fan coming to the game or if you were a general manager from an NHL team. The way he treated people was with kindness, knew their names, knew things about them, knew their family, knew their passions, and just sitting there, being in my early 20s, seeing that interaction, I’ve tried to really carry that on.

Sam Demma
Do these individuals know the contribution they’ve made to your professional development and personal life? I think they do.

Andrea Michelutti
I’m still in contact with Jeff Tuey. It was funny, because last year, he was up in Sudbury at a hockey game. I no longer live in Sudbury, and he ran into my family. And we exchanged pictures and our cell phone numbers, and I always reach out to him.

Andrea Michelutti
He’s one of those people where I just thought he is able to make things work. And so that’s been really great connecting. And Charlie Smith and Kristen Phillips, we do every once in a while keep in contact over Facebook. They’re both long retired.

Andrea Michelutti
Those are the people who really made my life in a different trajectory.

Sam Demma
With education and any heart-centered vocation, you’re always pouring into others, your staff members, the students in the building, the families you serve, that sometimes we forget to pour into ourselves. When you’re not in the school building or thinking about work, which is probably never.

Sam Demma
But when you have your time to pour into your own cup, how do you do that? What are some of the activities that fill you back up so you can be your whole self at work?

Andrea Michelutti
I’m really fortunate. I have a great family who’s always around me. And whenever I want to do something silly or crazy, they always embrace it. And it could be something like, you know, we wake up early in the morning.

Sam Demma
It’s important to do.

Andrea Michelutti
But it’s those little small connections with friends, with family, and sometimes in our jobs it’s really busy, but I always make sure that I carve out time for family every day.

Sam Demma
That’s so important. Do you come from a family of educators?

Sam Demma
My family went to university.

Andrea Michelutti
So my family had businesses up in Sudbury and I learned the the value of hard work and how when things are going well, they’re going really well. But during economic slowdowns things are really tough. And so what my parents always taught me was to be very appreciative of what you had and make sure that people always feel valued and welcomed in your life.

Sam Demma
Oh, amazing. You said that you’ve been an administrator for I believe now 17 years? That’s correct. What would you say is the big difference between working in the classroom

Sam Demma
and working as an administrator?

Andrea Michelutti
The biggest difference is the impact you make. So in the classroom you work with 20 to 30 students every day, but in a school I’m serving 700 students and supporting 70 staff members and families. So just seeing how the growth from students from grade 1 to grade to grade 8 and seeing the the gain staff makes is very different from being in the classroom to being in a leadership role.

Andrea Michelutti
I do have a lot of opportunities to teach. So if I’m having a tough day, sometimes I’ll go to a classroom and be like, give me a small group, or let me take a group of students. And so this year, my staff has been really working on how to improve their literacy skills, their math skills, and special education. We’re doing everything this year.

Andrea Michelutti
And so when we do have guest speakers, I’ll often say, I’ll take all the students to the library, do a little teaching so the students can work together. But the biggest impact is who we’re serving.

Sam Demma
If you were to think back to your first year

Sam Demma
as an administrator, I’m sure there’s still unique challenges that you’re solving now, but that first year must have been, in some ways, a learning experience. What are some of the advice you would give based on your own past experiences to

Sam Demma
other teachers who might be becoming administrators as they’re listening to this podcast. The one there’s two

Andrea Michelutti
pieces of advice. One is always be kind to others and two is always be kind to yourself. So my first year, I was very aware of all the mistakes I was making and then when I talk to those teachers or those principals, they never notice my mistakes. So I’ve really adopted the model of, if I have a really tough day and I’ve made a bad decision,

Andrea Michelutti
I’ll say, wow, that principal made a really bad decision, but Andrew McAloody is still a really good person. And so I think it’s really focusing on being, forgive yourself when you make those difficult decisions. And I always say, there was never a bad decision, it might just have been bad communication,

Andrea Michelutti
and what can you do differently?

Sam Demma
We’re getting very close to the new year. And when folks listen to this, it might be January or into February. What are you excited about moving into 2025? What I’m most excited about is seeing where our students grow. There are some students that have

Andrea Michelutti
made some significant gains in their literacy and math skills. And they’re just at the point of it’s all coming together, so they’re going to soar. I’m also really excited about thinking about how we can engage our families in different ways. I’m very hopeful for 2025, and I know it’s going to be a great year. I always say this year is the best year, but it turns out next year is the best year, and

Andrea Michelutti
the next year is the best year. And so that’s the great part about being in education is every year it keeps getting better and better. So one of my hopes for 2025 is just to make sure everybody feels a sense of belonging, a sense of happiness, and a sense of welcoming.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Andrea, thank you so much for taking time out of the busy schedule to share some of your ideas on the podcast. I appreciate it. I wish you nothing but the most amount of success and happiness into the new year

Sam Demma
with the school, both professionally and in your personal life, and I hope to stay connected. If somebody is listening to this and wants to share a note of gratitude or reach out, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Andrea Michelutti
Send me an email or reach out to me on X. It’s always important to have those connections. And just briefly, I had a student come back to me. I only worked with him for three months in 2016, and I said to him, I expect you to graduate. And he was a student who really doubted his abilities, but I saw something in him. And when he came back four years later, he just surprised me at the school with his

Andrea Michelutti
high school diploma, we’ve taken a picture, and it’s one of those moments I just will always cherish. Because he said, you believed in me, and I had to make sure I kept up to your high expectations. So I love when students come back, when families reach out, because it really makes those connections just that little stronger.

Sam Demma
I love that. Is the picture posted on your social media by any chance?

Andrea Michelutti
It is. I’ll send it to you. It’s one of those great things. And he actually did a video about our relationship. So that was one of those most important pieces, something I cherish.

Sam Demma
Oh, amazing. And what would your ex account profile be if someone did want to touch base?

Andrea Michelutti
It’s at Mickeludi A. So my last name followed by my first initial. So M-I-C-H-E-L-U-T-T-I-A.

Sam Demma
Andrea, thank you so much. This is a big pleasure.

Andrea Michelutti
Thank you so much, Sam, and keep doing the great work you’re doing. and keep doing the great work you’re doing. You’re changing the lives of many people.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Andrea Michelutti

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 30, 2025 by Education Educator Principals Student Success 0

Paul Turner — Language and Literature Teacher at Upper Canada College

Paul Turner — Language and Literature Teacher at Upper Canada College
About Paul Turner

Paul Turner is a passionate Language and Literature high school teacher at Upper Canada College in Toronto, Ontario. Paul has been teaching for twenty-eight years (twenty-five in public education with the last three at the college). Educated at McMaster University with a B.A in English and a B.A. in sociology,  he later completed Teachers’ College at Jordanhill College, Strathclyde University, in Scotland, where he received teaching awards in both English and Individual In Society. Paul also has a Specialist in Guidance Education.  

Recently, Paul has elected to work exclusively with Year 8 and 9 students to give them solid foundational skills for their high school and post-secondary educational journeys to come.  

Paul’s passion for travel is demonstrated with regular trips with students, most recently a food and culture trip to Mexico City and Oaxaca, Mexico.  In March, he will accompany students to Costa Rica on a community service trip where students will volunteer with environmental projects in local communities. Ten years ago, Paul and his wife Jennifer (also a Language and Literature teacher) took their two children Elizabeth and Jack on a 315-day trip around the world.
 
When not enjoying his phenomenal family and teaching career, Paul loves the time he is able to spend up at their cottage on a lake just outside of Algonquin Park.
 
Paul is committed to many whole-school, extra-curricular, and sports activities, in order to help students enjoy their entire secondary school experience. Although he is able to retire from teaching this year, he is not interested in doing so; “there’s just too much to accomplish with the kids I teach and my own personal growth as an educator!”

Connect with Paul Turner: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Upper Canada College
McMaster University

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Paul Turner. Paul and I connected, I want to say about a year and a half ago, or maybe more like a year ago. What I didn’t know about Paul, and we’ll uncover a lot about his work in education.

Sam Demma
What I didn’t know about Paul is that some people take trips, but Paul took a 315 day trip with his family a decade ago around the globe. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, Paul, and what that trip was, and then we’ll bridge the gap to what you’re doing in education right now?

Paul Turner
Absolutely, and thanks for having me, Sam. It’s an honor, for sure. So my wife is also an educator. She’s an English teacher, and so she’s the big idea person in our family, and one day she said to me,

Paul Turner
we need to take a teacher-funded leave. And that’s going to take place over a six-year period. We’re going to put into it until we can take one full year off. And in doing so, we pulled our kids out of school and we started an Odyssey that took us to around 26 or 27 countries and 300, yeah, as I think you said, 315 days straight, and we did, in fact, go all the way around the globe.

Paul Turner
And it was spectacular. It was probably the best learning experience of our lives, 100%.

Sam Demma
Why? Like, what was the passion behind that idea?

Paul Turner
So our school board, and lots of school boards do this, they actually encourage people to involve themselves in a teacher funded leave. And there’s a bunch of benefits. Obviously the most clear benefit is that when you allow your teachers to go out and immerse themselves in the world,

Paul Turner
you come back as a much more powerful educator, for sure, being able to have witnessed and immersed yourself in so many different cultures and experiences. So, you know, the school board encourages it. I think that there’s a benefit to the school board as well

Paul Turner
because usually you’ve got to be a long-on-the-tooth educator and they get paid more than the young ones. So they can get two teachers for one salary. But I think that ultimately the justification is that, you know, that you come back a better educator and a better person for it.

Sam Demma
It’s obvious education is at the heart of what you do. You are in a position now where you could retire but choose not to. Can you tell me about what got you passionate about education years ago and what keeps you passionate about it now?

Sam Demma
That’s, you know, I think that,

Paul Turner
I worked in public education for 27 years, and not to run anything down, but that’s a slog. It was, for the first 15, it was amazing. And then I just started to find that the education system in Ontario has been, consistently by different governments, has just been emptied. And so anybody who knows an educator

Paul Turner
in the public school board system knows that they’re tired, that they are, that they’re under-resourced, and the expectations are greater than ever. With that being said, still a wonderful job, and I have so many friends who are in the public education system.

Paul Turner
My wife continues to be. But I got an opportunity to come to a wonderful school in Toronto called the Upper Canada College and I think that I was probably on the verge of thinking about retiring after a fairly long career. And when I got here, I recognized the value of, it’s important to remember, I’m a huge supporter of public education, so it’s almost a small irony that I work in a private education field.

Paul Turner
But at the same time, it’s rejuvenated my career. I just absolutely love what I do now, and so I have committed to a couple more years at least to stay in the education system and just keep going.

Sam Demma
Did you know when you were a student yourself that you wanted to work in schools or how did you find this vocation?

Paul Turner
So actually no, I had really, I went to see my guidance counsellor and she basically said, you know, what do you want to do? My family was very involved in law enforcement and so I said, you know, I think that I’d probably like to be a police officer or a teacher. And so after I graduated from high school, I started going to college for law and security. I was immediately hired by a police force and became a police officer for a few years. And I recognized very soon that simply having a high school diploma,

Paul Turner
a little bit of college, of course the police force will pay for you to be educated on a part-time basis, but it would have taken me 10 years to get a university degree. And so I took the leap to quit and with the intent of going to university, getting a degree and then returning. But the further and further away I got away from policing and the more leadership opportunities I had in university taught me that I wanted to be an educator. in a community education teaching role. And then ultimately went to Teachers College

Paul Turner
and never looked back. It sounds like your time at UCC was so special. It revitalized your passion for education.

Sam Demma
What is it about UCC in comparison to other places you worked in the past that brought that passion back out of you? So I think it’s a very holistic approach passion back out of you?

Paul Turner
So I think it’s a very holistic approach that they have here as a staff, as a team. I’ve never felt more… The administration of the school is there to help me, whereas, you know, oftentimes in education, it can be adversarial with the administration because they’ve got their mandates. You know, the quintessential response that I have for my friends or anybody else who asks me is that every day I come to

Paul Turner
work in one way, shape, or form, I’m thanked for the work that I do, parent, student, administrative, other colleagues. Somebody thanks me in one way or another. And when that happens, it just makes you feel like, okay, I’m doing something that’s important

Paul Turner
and people are recognizing that. And it’s not about me, it’s more about the ethos and understanding of this culture of appreciation. The boys that we teach here are, I won’t lie, they’re very, many of them are very wealthy, but you don’t know that.

Paul Turner
It doesn’t feel like that. They’re here to learn, and they love the learning that they’re doing, and so when I can facilitate that, or help facilitate that, it’s very encouraging. It’s very, it makes you feel great. And walking onto this campus in downtown Toronto,

Paul Turner
30 acres, with the storied history of this building, we’re coming up on our 200th anniversary, obviously. That’s a big deal. 2029, yeah. So, you know, when I walk onto the campus, I feel like a $100 bill.

Paul Turner
It just feels great to be on here. The energy and the enthusiasm is amazing. So, yeah, that’s why I’m gonna stay.

Sam Demma
So you didn’t know at first

Sam Demma
that education was the vocation for you, and then you found that passion through leadership experiences in university, found yourself in public education, transitioned to UCC. Throughout that journey, have you had mentors that have been very instrumental in your personal professional development, or resources that were very helpful? And if so, what were those resources and who are those individuals and what do they do for you?

Paul Turner
I have to say that the biggest resource that’s available to an educator is the human resource of other educators. And so, yeah, I’ve had no one specific mentor, just one after the other after the other of impressive colleagues that are so passionate, so brilliant, so intense about the things that they do. And so, when you get into a, like anywhere, you have people who fill your backpack and people who empty your backpack, right?

Paul Turner
So, I think that in any environment, you have those two kind of different people. What I’ve typically done lately, well, for most of my careers, is align myself with people who are really smart, who are really passionate, who really were interested in developing positive educational relationships with kids and learn from them and just draw down on that. Alternatively, though, I find that I learn a great deal from the kids.

Paul Turner
The kids, they drive you, they want to succeed. And so I take a lot of my cues about how I learn from the kids themselves, because sometimes they ask me questions I don’t know the answer to. I go, okay, well, let’s go find that out.

Paul Turner
Let’s figure this out together. Yeah, so I think that, you know, and I’ve met, as I said, the human resources are the most important part. The people that I’ve met in my journey in education have been phenomenal and so varied in their experience and their approaches. And you just try and pick out the best of everybody and then make it your own and try and figure out a way to ball all of that up so that you can get it out to the kids and create opportunities for their success.

Sam Demma
Were you always someone who did things extracurricularly in schools? Did you have to find your footing for a while before you dove in? I know that today you do a lot outside of the classroom as well.

Paul Turner
So, schools take, not take advantage, but they recognize young people who are hungry, who want to secure their position in a way that will be creating some degree of longevity. So they tap you pretty early to say, what can you do for us, right? And so I think that in my early career, I was, along with a group of peers, we were kind of the go-to people.

Paul Turner
I used to have a vice principal who said that the reward for good work is the expectation for more good work. And so, you know, in a building, you see that there are lots of people who take a leadership role

Paul Turner
in terms of the extracurriculars. And you typically find that about half the staff is controlling about 90% of the extracurricular activities and coaching and things like that. I was for a very long time very engaged, did everything, anything anybody asked me to. When I had my own kids, I pulled back a little bit. I justified that in my mind that, you know, I’ve been looking after other people’s

Paul Turner
kids for a long time. Now I have my own children and I’m going to pour as much as I can into them. As my children have grown up, and they are pretty almost there, I’ve been able to get involved in a lot of things. And so the involvement that I’ve had at Upper Canada College has been spectacular for me, as well as providing, you know, I enjoy providing my time and the efforts But I’m growing as a person because of my involvement in those extracurricular activities as well

Sam Demma
When you think about all the experiences you’ve had in education This must be a very difficult question to answer that I’m about to ask you are there any experiences that stick out on your mind as things that brought you so much joy and fulfillment or moments that you are incredibly proud of being a part of throughout your educational journey?

Paul Turner
You know, there’s a lot of times where teachers feel beat up or, you know, sometimes, you know, you’ll have a bad day, you’ll have a run in with a kid or a parent will, you know, take in a task on something rightfully or wrongfully. And those days are difficult. And one colleague that I met very early on in my career

Paul Turner
gave me a piece of advice. And what he said was, every time you get a card from a kid, every time you get a note from a parent or a child or a supervisor that’s positive in nature, read it, put it in a box. And essentially what they indicated was that on those bad days where you think that, you know,

Paul Turner
am I in the right career? Did I do something wrong? And you’re feeling bad about something. You go to that box and you look through and you see, you see that those things outweigh the negatives by a long shot.

Paul Turner
And you see the positive impacts that you have on kids. And because to get to receive a letter or a note from a kid is very special because they generally, you know, I found that generally they don’t do that unless they’re really motivated to. And so as a consequence, you know, those are things that come from the heart. And yeah, so I mean, the other thing that I’m really proud of, and I try and instill this in new teachers as well, is that I did something that was, quite frankly, I still think about it, and it amazes me, is that my mother passed away many years ago. And we were having a coffee one day, talking about, probably about something that I was doing at school.

Paul Turner
And she said, you know, that must be amazing. You know, and I said, well, yeah, I have an amazing job. And so I said, would you like to come to my school and watch me teach for a day? And she said, I could do that. And I said, absolutely. So, arranged it and she came in, had a lesson planned for her so she could follow along.

Paul Turner
And we taught my class and she saw how I interacted with the kids and took her out for lunch and, you know, introduced her around to the building. And of course, her experience at school is vastly different than what goes on in the school in recent memory. And so, you know, when she was ill before she passed away, she told me that that was probably one of the best days of her life.

Paul Turner
And that’s something. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I mean, this job has provided me with so much joy and so much good karma, I think. Definitely bumps along the road, but generally speaking,

Paul Turner
something that I’m gonna look back on fondly.

Sam Demma
You can feel your heart through the screen, through the podcast. I actually lost my grandfather when I was 13 and we share the same name. And he only ever knew Sam, and Sam, the guy who played sports,

Sam Demma
and Sam, the soccer player, and he never got to meet in person. Sam, the author and speaker and all the other things, and I wish I could have had him, you know, in my corner at this stage of my life to have conversations with,

Sam Demma
and I think that’s such a beautiful opportunity, and I hope that other educators that are listening that still have their parents around, if their parents are able to and interested in joining them for a day of work, bring your parents to work day. It should be a new thing.

Sam Demma
I think that that idea is worth this conversation and goal, and I appreciate you sharing that experience. Yeah, that’s amazing. When you did that, did other teachers in the building, if you can remember, did they say like, oh my goodness, this is a great idea,

Sam Demma
I should bring my parents, or was it just like a-

Paul Turner
Absolutely, and I have motivated a few people to do that in the various locations, and I take student teachers every once in a while, I’ve got one coming in in February, and it’s something that I always relate to them, that there’s so much magic in that, you know, our parents

Paul Turner
fill us up with with so much and they really Rarely ask for anything in return and to be able to give them an example of well to give my mother An understanding of the success that she created Was it was you know something that I felt was really important for me as a person, but also I wanted to show her just how much I appreciated that she got me there to a place where I was very happy and successful. So yeah, it was magic for

Sam Demma
sure. You are involved now in lots of extracurricular activities. You know, you’re teaching full-time in the school, you’re raising the kids. When you’re not pouring into others. How do you feel, how does Paul fill his own cup?

Sam Demma
Yeah, so we’ve got

Paul Turner
good friends that we spend time with and we have, we’re very very fortunate to have a property up north on a lake and so we get up there as often as we can, we can use it in the winter and so you know, I mean there’s a bunch of things that I like to do. I have to admit sometimes I can be a bit of a couch potato and watch some really good series on Netflix or what have you. I listen to podcasts. I really enjoy spending time with my family.

Paul Turner
And so that time takes different forms because my son still lives at home, home but my daughter is at university and she plays varsity volleyball for university and so we try to get to as many games as we can throughout the province and yeah so and like you we’re just gearing up for the holidays and our very small family will get together at the cottage for the whole time and it’s going to be terrific. So I like to, yeah, my wife and I go for walks

Paul Turner
up north. Sometimes I sit on the deck and watch hummingbirds as they go by. So yeah, so I really enjoy being in nature and so as a consequence that’s where, you know, we spend our whole summer up at our cottage and so that’s really a great place to recharge and get things done. I love, just as a side note, I love, people think it’s weird, but I love to chop wood and I kind of try to figure out why that is. I finally figured it out is that, you know, in education, the process sometimes is slow, right? Your engagement with a kid, you see them for only an hour a day and then over a period of time and you don’t even know if you’re having any impact. Sometimes you do,

Paul Turner
sometimes you don’t. More times than not, you don’t even know if you have any, had any impact. More like water on a stone. And so, you know, I found that the act of chopping up a tree, cutting it into blocks, and then splitting it, stacking it, and drying it, and then being able to use it down the road to warm the house that my family lives in. It’s very tangible, kind of beginning, middle, end, done,

Paul Turner
where I don’t get that necessarily. Most of us don’t, in our jobs, get that beginning and finish. So I find it very relaxing and it’s good exercise.

Sam Demma
I don’t think it’s weird at all. I love it. And Rocky Balboa does too. We didn’t get a chance to talk about your international trips with students, the service learning that you’ve done with students. When you mentioned Hummingbird, I thought of a bird that I saw in Costa Rica for a conference I was in a few weeks ago,

Sam Demma
and I know you’ve brought students there as well. It sounds like you get thanked a lot at UCC by your colleagues, by parents, and also the students, but I wanted to thank you personally as well for the work that you’re doing in education, choosing to maintain in this beautiful vocation.

Sam Demma
There’s a lot of young teachers that are listening to this right now, and you’ve just put a beautiful spotlight on what’s possible. And I hope that other people listening reach out to you if they have questions or to thank you as well. And if they do, what would be the best way

Sam Demma
for them to get in touch or share a note of gratitude?

Paul Turner
Well, because I’m an old school guy and old, old, old, I-

Sam Demma
He chops wood guys, he chops wood.

Paul Turner
I don’t have any socials, but if somebody had the inclination to reach out to me, they can do so at my email address, which is pturner@ucc.on.ca.

Sam Demma
Oh, thank you so much. Keep up the amazing work and enjoy the the time of North with the family.

Paul Turner
Thank you so much for having me Sam. It’s been a great Thank you so much for having me Sam. It’s been a great experience.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Paul Turner

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 23, 2025 by Education Educator Teachers 0

Kristan McTernan – Vice Principal at the Toronto Catholic District School

Kristan McTernan – Vice Principal at the Toronto Catholic District School
About Kristan McTernan

Kristan McTernan is a Vice Principal with the Toronto Catholic District School. Prior to becoming a vice principal, she was a teacher for over a decade specializing in teaching English, Special Education and ESL. Highlights of her teaching career include leading the team that won a 2022 TCDSB Exemplary Practice Award for expanding the House System and establishing a mentorship program at Brebeuf College School. In the same year, she was awarded the Toronto Secondary Unit’s Status of Women Committee Exceptional Teacher Award for her efforts both inside and outside the classroom. Forming relationships with staff and students through various extracurricular activities, from coaching swimming, and moderating Student Council to organizing Grade 9 Orientation and Grade 12 Graduation make up some of the most memorable experiences of her teaching career.  As a high school administrator, Kristan is passionate about supporting all students by thinking creatively about “outside the bell”  solutions to address challenges to student success. She credits her willingness to think “outside the bell” with the fact that all her experiences in high schools thus far have been in specialized learning environments. Not only is she a Mary Ward Catholic Secondary School Centre for Self-Directed Learning alum, but she also taught at Brebeuf College, a single-gendered all-boys school, and is now a vice principal at Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts.  Throughout her career, Kristan has developed a passion for equity in education, with a focus on BIPOC representation in leadership. She is currently a mentor and one of the committee members of the TCDSB’s Racialized Administrators Mentorship Program. The goal of the program is to provide information, guidance and mentorship to BIPOC educators who may be interested in becoming an administrator. At both the board and school level, she continues to share her experiences as a black woman, black educator and immigrant to Canada proudly raised in Scarborough to further the positive impact of the TCDSB’s robust Equity Plan on the lives of students and their families.   Outside of school, Kristan is a proud mother of two boys aged 7 and 10. She raises her sons with her husband who is also a TCDSB administrator, which makes for colourful discussions at the dinner table. Formula 1 Racing rounds out the top three things Kristan is passionate about, just below her family and her school community.

Connect with Kristan McTernan: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Toronto Catholic District School
Mary Ward Catholic Secondary School Centre
Brebeuf College
Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we’re joined with a very special guest. Kristan Mcternan is a vice principal with the Toronto Catholic District School Board. She and I met less than a year ago, collaborating on an event. And I’m so honored to have her on the show today.

Sam Demma
Kristan, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Kristan McTernan
Yeah, so that’s pretty much me in a nutshell right there. I’m Vice Principal of the Toronto Catholic District School Board. I have the pleasure of being the Vice Principal of Cardinal Carter Academy for the Arts. I have been a Vice Principal for about two years, going into my third year. Before that, I was a teacher at Braybuff College for 14 and a half glorious years. And so, yeah, now I come to Cardinal Carter as a vice principal and just embracing what this role brings.

Sam Demma
Did you know you wanted to work in education, or what did your own pathway look like as a student?

Kristan McTernan
Education, yeah, I knew because I think it was in my blood. The path really started with my parents. Both my parents are educators. My dad retired. My mom is still a special education teacher. But when we moved here from Trinidad when I was five, I really watched them fight to get back to the classroom. They needed to get recertified and get some things in order, and that took a while. While they were working and transitioning into being Canadian citizens with two young children, they were also studying and getting themselves certified. I saw that passion they had for teaching, and when they finally got back into the classroom, it really resonated with me.

In the meantime, I was that kid who would line up all my teddy bears, give them little handouts, and decorate a wall in my room as a bulletin board. I’d change it up every so often to reflect themes or different seasons because I really wanted to emulate my parents and their love for education. That carried me to high school, where I had great teachers in both elementary and high school. At Holy Spirit in Scarborough, I was a student from JK to grade eight, and then I went to Mary Ward, which gave me a unique perspective on education because it’s a self-directed learning center.

Kristan McTernan
And while I was doing that, I got involved in working with Toronto Parks and Recreation, now called Toronto Parks, Recreation, and Culture, in the camps. That sparked it for me. I knew I wanted to be a teacher as soon as I got there. Before, I felt it, but when I started working with kids through camps, working my way up from an assistant leader to an area coordinator managing a group of camps, I fell in love. So, when I went to university, I took a psychology course, focusing on education. I did a double major in English and Criminology and a minor in History. I thought for a hot second that maybe I wanted to do law.

Kristan McTernan
But a teacher told me, “You want to work with youth. Do you want to work with them after they’re in the system, or do you want to reach them before they enter the system?” I said, “No, I want to work with them before.” And that was it. I did Teachers College and all the good things that led to this point. So, yeah, I think it was in my blood, starting with my parents.

Sam Demma
Cardinal Carter has one of the best art programs and facilities in the board. Is there a connection to arts in your own life that inspired you to be at this school, or was it luck of the draw that you ended up here?

Kristan McTernan
Well, it’s luck of the draw. Even though I had a brief foray as a saxophonist in elementary and high school, I wouldn’t say I have a musical background or a background in the arts. That allows me to be the biggest fangirl of all the arts in our school. I’m loving the drama, music, dance, and visual arts. I’m loving all of it. I can just be an amazing fan for the students because I don’t come to it with my own background in the arts.

Sam Demma
I was blown away by the amount of student art on the walls and just the energy of the students. It was such a welcoming space. What are the values that you and your team and the staff try to instill in the students? What is the culture you’re striving to build? Because it’s very apparent that when you walk in, it has a really welcoming feeling.

Kristan McTernan
Oh, it’s amazing to know that it’s coming across to visitors in our school. We are very much working with artists, and as a staff, we’ve talked a lot about the unique struggles for students who are artists, who have this creative mindset. Instead of focusing on expectations and being creative, they already come with that. What we strive to do is help them have balance—to celebrate their successes, to understand that failure is only part of the journey, and to provide them with a counter perspective than what they come with.

Kristan McTernan
That’s what we do at our school—to build community among the different art areas and bring students together across the art areas to embrace the experience of being a student. Balance in life, mental health, and well-being are just as important as creativity and being the best you can be. Our students tend to come with that, and we just provide the other perspectives to help them live a really balanced life and be their own best selves.

Sam Demma
When it comes to building connections or relationships with students, building rapport, how do you go about doing that as an adult?

Kristan McTernan
Once, when I was a teacher, someone came to me and said, “You have this way of joking around, but you’re not messing around.” I’ve tried to embody that. I want students to see me as a person, someone who cares about them first and foremost. Yes, there are things I need to enforce, but beyond all that, I care about their growth. I’m willing to break down my own walls, share my own experiences, and even share my own mistakes with them.

Kristan McTernan
I tell them, “I’ve been a student longer than I’ve been a teacher or an educator. I’m telling you this because I want the best for you.” When students see that, it’s the easiest way to build that relationship because they know I’m genuine. They’re willing to share their successes and fears, struggles and triumphs. That’s been the key to building those relationships as a teacher and now as a vice principal.

Sam Demma
That phrase, “I’m joking around, but I’m not messing around”—that’s gold right there.

Kristan McTernan
Well, I have to give credit to the person who said it first. His name’s Dave. Early in my career, he said that, and I ran with it.

Sam Demma
When you think about interactions you have with young people that have left them better than you found them, do any stories of impact come to mind? I ask because a lot of educators got into this field to make a difference, but sometimes they don’t hear about their impact until years later when a student bumps into them at the grocery store and says, “Miss, you changed my life.”

Kristan McTernan
I see it every day. At any given moment, I have students who need me. Even their growth from when I got to the school to now has been amazing. For example, attendance is a big piece. When a student says, “Miss, I didn’t skip today,” that’s a badge of honor. And I’m like, “Yes, amazing!” Celebrating those accomplishments with them is huge.

Kristan McTernan
As a teacher, I’ve had impactful moments too. I had a student who sent me pictures of his newborn son. When students come back and want to interact with you in their adult life, you know you’ve done something right. Those are the moments I carry with me—every time a student comes back to visit and tells me what’s happening in their in their lives is amazing.

Sam Demma
Who have been some of the impactful mentors in your own life or people that support you as a vice principal, as a teacher, that without them, you know, you think, gosh, life or the way I approach things would have been very different.

Kristan McTernan
I have, I’m like going, thinking about my journey of getting to education, I can name them as we go from stage to stage. As I said, my parents, first and foremost, and see, like, I would say, my mom is one of the most incredible educators I’ve ever met. I’ve seen kids that have been written off and my mom’s like, in her Trinidadian accent, no, we’re gonna work with this kid today, like that is happening.

That persistent attitude, that determination that no kid is going to be left behind, and every kid is worthy of growth and accomplishment, I get from her. When I was in elementary school, I had two amazing teachers, Ms. Bailey and Ms. Kudo, who showed me what it was for a teacher to care about a kid outside of the classroom.

When my parents dropped me off early in the morning, and it was really cold—we’re from Trinidad, I wasn’t used to this—Ms. Bailey took me to her class and allowed me to stay there. She would help me with my work. She had high standards, but she was willing to help me reach them and to care about me and my family.

She actually was a person I turned to when I was becoming a teacher to help me with the interview process and all that. She’s never given up on me. At Mary Ward, we have something called a teacher advisor. They are a teacher who actually doesn’t teach you—or they may teach you, but they don’t have to—that sees you every single day of your high school career. They see you in the morning, at lunch, and in the afternoon, tracking your progress and talking with your parents.

For me, it was Miss Earl. She was an amazing example of how a teacher goes beyond curriculum. A teacher cares about kids. She cared about me and kept me on the straight and narrow. My mom did it at home, and I knew Miss Earl would do it at school.

I also had a teacher named Mr. Wetzel who taught me that teaching is about helping students see the curriculum and engage in it beyond just the right answer. It was about what I could prove was the right answer, and that’s why I got into English.

Right now, I have a current mentor, my principal, Linton Soares. Yes, you met him when you came over. He’s a great mentor. He’s helping me take those values I had as a teacher, align them with his values, and bring that forward into this role. He helps me stay true to why I got into this in the first place, so it doesn’t get lost in the everyday tasks of running a school.

Sam Demma
It’s awesome that you can name these people one by one based on the stages of your life. I’m fortunate that I’ve had so many mentors myself, and I think about it all the time, like, thank God for putting these people in my life because they all seem to come at the perfect times when I needed them most.

We met in the most weird, coincidental ways. And I just know that if I didn’t have those people, my own values and the way I show up and the decisions I made would have likely been very different. So it’s nice to pay homage to some of those people. And if they listen to this, y’all just know that Kristan and I appreciate you big time.

Sam Demma
The start of the school year is no joke for a lot of educators because they just finished this two-month break. They’re excited, but sometimes they jump in, and it’s like, whoa, super overwhelming—there’s so much going on. How do you make that transition every year from summertime to another school year?

Is there any rituals that you have? Or like, you know, as a soccer player, I would always have these pregame routines, and I feel like the last week of August is pregame. What does your pregame look like?

Kristan McTernan
My pregame looks like first hanging on to every minute of the summer that I can before I have to let go. Just savoring every single minute of it so that I know when it’s time to get back into it, I’m ready. I think of it as Happy New Year.

Everybody celebrates January 1st, but Happy New Year for educators is the Tuesday after Labor Day. That comes with resolutions: self-reflection, what do I want to do differently this year? What were my successes last year? What do I need to do differently? What do I need to put in place to make that happen?

Every year, I go into it with the goal of finishing the way I started, finishing with the energy and perspectives I had at the beginning. Whatever I put in place to revise my practices leads to an even more successful outcome.

The job can be very draining—we put so much of ourselves into it. So, I want to create balance and be effective. My resolutions are often about that. I know my weaknesses, like organization. Sometimes I have to fake it till I make it, and it usually involves a lot of Amazon purchases, like a new agenda book. I can’t take my old habits into the new year!

A few new wardrobe pieces also help me feel ready to tackle a new year. I want to make sure that by the end of the year, I’ve done everything I set out to accomplish and made the most of the time with my family.

Sam Demma
I think that’s such a key reminder to be present wherever you are. Jim Rohn, a speaker who’s been very influential for me, said, “When you work, work. When you play, play. Don’t be at the beach thinking about work, and don’t be at work thinking about the beach.”

You ruin both experiences that way. When you’re at the beach, be at the beach. When you’re at work, be at work. That’s the sentiment you just shared. It’s something I need to hear right now because I’m always living in the future or thinking about the past, forgetting about the moment we have—right now.

Kristan McTernan
Exactly. There are only a finite number of summer days in my life, but there are also only a finite number of days in my career. So, I’m going to maximize all of it for what it is.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show today.

Kristan McTernan
Thank you so much for having me. This was a blast!

Sam Demma
I hope the academic year this year is phenomenal, and I look forward to crossing paths again soon.

Kristan McTernan
Thank you so much.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Kristan McTernan

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 31, 2024 by Administrative Support Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Student Success 0

Michelle Jarvis – Teacher at Morrin School

Michelle Jarvis – Teacher at Morrin School
About Michelle Jarvis

Michelle Jarvis’s story begins in the small, rural community of Morrin, AB where she was born and raised. From her earliest memories, Morrin School was more than just a place of learning; it was a cornerstone of Michelle’s childhood. Michelle was a student in Morrin School for her K-12 schooling, moving through the grades with the help of dedicated teachers who nurtured her curiosity and encouraged her dreams.

Growing up, Michelle was the kind of student who thrived on the excitement of learning new things. These experiences planted the seeds of Michelle’s own desire to become an educator, and Morrin School was the backdrop of her formative years.

In 2005, after Michelle earned her teaching degrees and gained some experience in other schools, she felt a pull to return to her roots. The opportunity to teach at Morrin School was a dream come true. 

Michelle’s journey as an educator at Morrin School began with teaching grade one. It was a delight to witness the unfiltered enthusiasm and wonder of young children as they embarked on their educational journey. Over the years, Michelle has taught every grade from kindergarten through tenth, each level presenting its own unique challenges and rewards. Whether it was helping a kindergartener learn to read or guiding a high school student through choices that will impact their futures, every moment was a chance to make a difference.

Being deeply rooted in Morrin, Michelle understands that education extends beyond the classroom. She is committed to not only fostering academic growth but also to strengthening the ties between the school and the community. Over the years, Michelle has been actively involved in organizing and participating in various community events. From being an executive member of the Local ATA, Morrin Figure Skating Club, volunteer for Homecoming, to leading the after-school enrichment programs, Michelle’s role as a teacher has always intertwined with her passion for community service.

One of the most rewarding aspects of her career has been witnessing the growth and achievements of her students. Each year, as Michelle sees the development of students’ skills and confidence, she is reminded of the profound impact that education can have. Michelle cherishes the moments when a student who struggled with a concept suddenly grasps it, or when a hesitant young learner gains the courage to speak up in class.

In the end, teaching is about more than just imparting knowledge; it’s about building relationships, fostering a love for learning and helping each student realize their full potential. Michelle is honored to be a part of her student’s educational journey, and she looks forward to many more years of learning, teaching, and growing with the wonderful community of Morrin School.

Connect with Michelle Jarvis: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Morrin School
Alberta Teachers’ Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today I am joined by a good friend, Michelle Jarvis, who I met a few years ago and then had the pleasure of visiting her community at Morin School, whose t-shirt I now proudly wear while training for marathons. Michelle.

Michelle Jarvis
You recognize it.

Michelle Jarvis
Hi.

Sam Demma
Take a moment to introduce yourself. Hi, everyone.

Michelle Jarvis
I’m Michelle. I’ve been at this teaching gig for 26 years now and yeah, we saw Sam at a conference and wanted him to come share his info with our students. So, we came to the little town of Mourne, and we all see when you wear our school shirt proudly when you’re working out in training. We love it.

Sam Demma
One of your students, I remember when I came, gave me a chain to wear while I was speaking and I wore his necklace.

Michelle Jarvis
Yes, yeah.

Sam Demma
And the taco lunch was a big highlight after we finished too.

Michelle Jarvis
It was great. Yeah, the students still talk about that day. It was awesome.

Sam Demma
26 years ago, did you know that you were going to get into teaching or like, how did you find this vocation?

Michelle Jarvis
Since I was a little kid, my mom had one of those memory books, you know, you put your school report card in and what you want to be when you grow up. I always said teacher. There’s other things on there, but teacher was always something I wanted to do. And I had teachers that I loved. I’m like, I want to be just like them. So that’s kind of where it came.

Sam Demma
After that realization, what did your path as a student and into an early professional look like?

Michelle Jarvis
As a student, I just tried to mainstream my courses for university or whatever I needed. And then I applied and got in, and just right from the get-go, I was like, I’m doing this. And I was so excited when I got into education. I volunteered and did different things for the community, working with students and youth. I picked up summer jobs like Summer Fund or working at a teen center and just hanging out with students and trying to build relationships that I thought would benefit me with my teaching career. And then, yeah, I went to the university and got my degrees.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. And after the university experience ended, did you come straight back to this community? Or where did you go?

Michelle Jarvis
I was hoping to come straight back. But the principal here, he was my principal at the time too, when I was in high school, he’s like, “You know what, you need to go somewhere else, experience different places.” So, no, I went to Northern Alberta to an amazing Mennonite community. There were a lot of First Nations up there also. I stayed there for seven years and then I moved back and just slowly started substitute teaching and doing some work at the school here until a position opened up and I applied and got it.

Sam Demma
That’s so cool. What was different about school in that community versus the school you’re at now?

Michelle Jarvis
Not too much because they’re both smaller communities. The Mennonites, they were just an amazing group of people. They have a very strong faith base and strong community, like togetherness, building things and doing stuff for the school, the churches, and just the town itself. So I guess the difference would be the faith-based community because I’m in a public school here now. They were just, they’re amazing. You just, if you needed anything or if there was some event, they’d try and include you in it and bring you into the community activities.

Sam Demma
And it’s just very closely knit, I guess. That’s awesome. When you did come back here, did kids start pointing at your graduation photo on the wall?

Michelle Jarvis
Yes.

Sam Demma
Wow, that was you?

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, they did. It’s really cool. We just moved into this new school, which you presented in. But in the old school, we had less glass with a lot of walls, and they had all the grad photos up from all the years. My mom and dad’s grad photos were in there and then myself and my siblings, and we loved it. We don’t have room for them here, but we downloaded them and we put them on the TV that we have in the school so students can still see them. They asked grades, and they were like, “You graduated when?”

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, that’s awesome.

Sam Demma
When I arrived at the school for the performance, I remember walking into the office and there was a picture of six students on the wall. I was like, “Oh, are these your kids?” And the principal was like, “No, no, that’s our graduating class.” And I was like, “That’s awesome.” I think there’s such a unique thing that happens in smaller communities where the connections you make with kids are just that much deeper because you know their parents, their grandparents, where they shop. Everyone knows each other. What are some of the things you love about small tight-knit communities like the one you’re teaching in now?

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, that’s one of the reasons I like the small communities. I did some practicums in the cities, which is great, but because I grew up here, I think I’m just more comfortable. I guess the thing is, yeah, you know generations of families, you know, like their grandparents and their aunts and uncles, and you just have that relationship of family, even though you might not be related, blood-related. It’s just these deep roots, I guess, and the whole time going by and deep roots and connections that I really enjoy.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. And you also attended school at this school, which is super unique. I think it’s awesome that you’re serving the same school that served you growing up.

Michelle Jarvis
Kindergarten to grade 12.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome.

Sam Demma
When you think about teachers you had that were super inspiring or made a big contribution in your development, who comes to mind and what did those people specifically do that made such a big impact?

Michelle Jarvis
I had great teachers. There wasn’t any that I, you know, sometimes you have favorites or whatever. I did enjoy all my teachers. Things that stuck out with some, like Mrs. Vahidi, she was our grade three teacher and she made memorizing multiplications a thing, and we had to do it in 15 seconds and rattle them off and just made it games. And then after junior high and high school, just they cared. They wanted you to do well. So if you weren’t or you were struggling, they were like, “What can I do to help? Where are you?” You know, they just reached out and being smaller classes, they had that time and the ability to do that. So just things like that, and they made it fun, project-based things, different. Our biology teacher did a huge bio project. You had to choose something – the study of the meadows and plants and life that lived there. Another couple in our class did one; they did a pig dissection because one of the pigs had died. So they rebuilt the whole skeletal system. Just really cool things like that, that we were able to do.

Sam Demma
It sounds like experiential learning was a big part of it.

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, definitely.

Sam Demma
When you think about students you’re serving today in your school, how do you go about trying to build rapport and relationships with young people?

Michelle Jarvis
My son would be embarrassed, but I try to get up on all their knowledge in slang and use it. Totally embarrasses them. I also try to do project-based stuff or learn what the students like or the way they like to learn. I know like, you know, note-taking is not really a thing anymore, or lecturing. It’s like, okay, how can we get into this deep thought? And I try to relate it to real-life situations. Like, you know, often as a student in math class, it’s like, “When are we ever going to use this, Mr. Haslam?” And he’d be like, “You just gotta do it.” So, when I get asked that, I’m like, “Okay, let’s see, when will we use this?” We try to relate it back to real-life situations where, yeah, you actually may need this someday.

Sam Demma
That’s a good strategy.

Sam Demma
I was the same student asking those questions to my teachers, and I think that extra step reinforces in a student’s mind that this matters and that you care as their teacher. And I just had some teachers that were so passionate. They could have been teaching me about anything, and I would have been locked in because I was just overwhelmed by how passionate they were about what they were teaching. They could have been teaching us about paint drying, and I would have been like, “Whoa, this is amazing.”

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, you can tell when it’s something they love, right? Like, there are certain units I teach that I really like, so they can tell because I’m excited, like body language and just everything. Yeah, you’re right. There’s those teachers that resonate with you because it’s like, yeah, you could definitely make anything exciting.

Sam Demma
Now, a lot of teachers at this time of year are excited because the school year is starting, but also overwhelmed because you’re coming out of the break of the summertime. This may be a tough time in your life based on things that are happening outside of the school. How do you get through those challenging moments as an educator?

Michelle Jarvis
Myself personally, we have a great staff, and I know there’s people I can talk to, even our men team. I can go and talk to them about things like that. So, yeah, when you’re just kind of stressed out or feeling burnt out because it’s so overwhelming – the excitement of coming back and, like you said, you’re off a break and that – but it’s also “whoosh,” here’s all this work now. Yeah, I’m very fortunate. All the schools I’ve ever worked at, the staff and the administrators have been phenomenal, and I’ve been grateful that I have those people and those supports that I can reach out to. They understand, and they’ll either listen or give me some resources or things that might help me in those times.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome that you have that support system.

Michelle Jarvis
It is.

Sam Demma
Outside of your experiences as a teacher, you’ve been involved in the community, and you’ve been involved in coaching, volunteering, and with teacher associations and conferences. Where does this never-ending energy come from?

Michelle Jarvis
Oh, there are days I’m a zombie, but I don’t know. It’s just, it’s a passion of mine. I love it. I love being a part of the community and the school. And it kind of feels like being a rock star. I went to Homecoming last year, and I ran an alumni volleyball tournament at the school. All the past students that I had came back, and people were like, “Wow.” They’re just so excited to see you, and I’m like, “No, I’m excited to see them too.” I don’t know. It’s just there. It’s just something in my heart, the passion about it. And, yeah, even when you’re tired, though, you just push through it because you know the benefits and the outcome are just so rewarding – to see them and to see the students succeed and grow up. And they come back and visit, and it’s amazing.

Sam Demma
When I talk to educators, I ask them why they got into this work, and most of them tell me they want to make a difference. They really want to support and amplify young people. Can you think of a student who was really struggling before you started teaching them, or even just someone you noticed? And through their experiences in school and in extracurricular activities, you saw them make a really big improvement. You can change their name if it’s a serious story, but the reason I bring it up is because I think a lot of educators forget how much of an impact they’re having on young people. And sometimes that young person doesn’t come and tell them right away. So hearing stories like these ones just remind them why they’re doing this work in the first place.

Michelle Jarvis
There are a few students that come to mind. I guess one is just struggle – came from a tough home, not, you know, just kind of didn’t have a high economic status. Maybe both parents had to work a lot of jobs. The kids came to school with what they could to eat. They liked to hunt and do different things to help provide for their family. School wasn’t his favorite thing, of course, but he got through it. He worked really hard, got his grades, and was able to graduate. After, like two or three years later, I ran into him at my niece’s graduation in another town. And I’m like, “Oh, hey, what are you doing here?” And he’s like, “Oh, I’m friends with this graduate.” And I’m like, “Oh, it’s great.” And he’s like, “You know, I gotta tell you, you made a difference in my life. You’re the reason I actually graduated and finished school, and I’ve gone on and done really well for myself.”

Michelle Jarvis
And teachers often don’t realize sometimes the impact we’re having on students. And I said, “Well, what did I do?” And he’s like, “You were just there, you listened, you tried to build relationships and connect with me. I don’t think you’re a big hunter, but you would ask me, like, ‘Oh, how did hunting go this weekend? What did you get? How many geese? Or did you get your deer or your moose or whatever?’ And you just always encouraged us to follow something, our dreams or something that we were passionate about.” And he’s like, “And I’ve done that.”

Now I haven’t talked to him in quite a few years, but I know he was working as a hunting guide. Visitors would come from the United States or different parts of Canada and come out here, and he would guide them, show them where to go, and get permission from the landowners. I didn’t realize sometimes that we, as teachers, impacted students in those ways. They don’t often always come back, but he just, despite some of the challenges in his life and growing up, continued on. He finished school, and he went on, and he’s successful and contributing to the community.

Sam Demma
That’s so awesome.

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah.

Sam Demma
It’s funny how sometimes we don’t even recognize we’re making the difference.

Michelle Jarvis
Exactly. Yeah. Sometimes it’s just even talking to them or saying hi. One principal we had said, “Okay, every morning, I want you to connect with certain kids.” So we kind of did like a hockey pool draft, and I’m like, “Okay, these are my kids.” We’d say hello to all of them, but I’d focus on these ones – just make sure they’re okay and check in with them. And it was great because then we got to see them, and they got to see us outside of just the classroom. Just saying, “Hey, Sam, how you doing today? How is your mom or dad?” Just, like, on a personal level – even two minutes every day – just kind of checking in on them and reaching out.

Sam Demma
I remember a time in my life where I was really struggling. I had just started my career as a speaker and convinced my parents that it was a good decision to put my post-secondary education on hold to give this a go. I hired a coach because if I wasn’t investing in the formal education path, I told myself I was going to invest in education. I found a gentleman who was 25 years ahead of me, who had been speaking for 20-plus years. Then COVID hit. I had 30 presentations canceled, and I was bawling my eyes out, sitting on this hill near my house.

I called him – his name’s Chris – and I said, “Chris, this is the worst decision I’ve ever made. I can’t work with you anymore. I should be back in school.” And, you know, the whole 40 minutes, this guy barely said anything. He just listened. By the end of the phone call, I felt like all my problems were solved, and he didn’t even really say anything. It made me realize that sometimes people aren’t actually looking for us to solve their problems; they’re just looking for us to listen. They’re looking for us to be there.

So when someone’s struggling and they start telling me about their struggles, I’ll try to remind myself to ask them, “Hey, are you looking for a solution, or do you just want me to be an ear?” I feel like 90% of the time, they just want you to be there and hear them out. Despite the fact that you’re not a hunter, you took interest in that young man’s passions. I think there’s nothing more impactful that we can do when talking to young people than to care about the things they care about.

Michelle Jarvis
And they teach us, too. There’s another student that’s into football, and I’ve watched football, but not a lot. I just ask, “Hey, how was the game on the weekend?” He’ll tell me what position he plays, and I learn something from them also daily. I agree with you – just listening sometimes to the person. Even myself, like you said, at the beginning of the year, we’re overwhelmed. I’ll go talk to my coworker, and she’ll just listen. Then, after, I’m like, “Oh, thanks, I feel better.” She’s like, “You’re welcome.”

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. When you think about conferences you’ve attended or events you’ve been to, which ones stick out in your mind that had a big impact on building community and also taking back some important lessons to bring to the school?

Michelle Jarvis
When I was in university, we did a leadership conference in education. I was part of the planning committee, and we just brought in these speakers. It was exciting to see it from that side as an organizer and see how much it takes and the organization required. But when it all came together, it was just an awesome experience.

Of course, when I saw you and Savio at the Middle Years Conference, I was like, “This is something that’s fun and entertaining, but also connects to real-life situations that everyone deals with.” Another one, I think you’ve met her – Dr. Jody Carrington. I know she’s not everyone’s cup of tea, but she’s down-to-earth, and she says it like it is. That was another one. And Shelly Moore is another person that resonated with me. She struggled through school, and we just had her again the other day.

She’s there for those students who struggle. She says, “Hey, school isn’t for everyone, and that’s okay. But while you have to be here, we’re going to make sure you succeed. We’re going to make accommodations. We’re going to find your strengths, and we’re going to focus on those, not on the areas where you may struggle, because you’re great just the way you are, and you have things to contribute to us, too.”

Sam Demma
That’s awesome.

Michelle Jarvis
Yeah, those are the people that resonate with me. I always want to attend their conferences or hear their speeches again.

Sam Demma
When you think about educators that may be struggling right now, if you could give them a word of advice, what would you share with them?

Michelle Jarvis
It gets better. Sometimes it just feels like it’s never-ending, but remember why you started. Yes, the paperwork, the files, the IPPs, and all these new systems for report cards are part of it. But remember why you started. You started because you love kids, you want to help them follow their dreams, and we’re here for them, not necessarily for all the administrative stuff.

So always refocus on that. Yes, that’s just part of our job, but what’s the reason we chose to do this job? That always helps me. I think, “I’m here for the students, and I want to be a good role model for them. I want to make this experience, from kindergarten to grade 12, a safe place where they feel comfortable and know I’m approachable.”

Sam Demma
Michelle, thank you so much for taking some time to come on the show, talk about your educational journey, your philosophies around building relationships with young people, the importance of listening, and the advice you’d share with someone who’s not feeling the greatest in the vocation right now. I hope you continue to find meaning in the work you’re doing and make a big contribution. I look forward to crossing paths with you again very soon.

Michelle Jarvis
Thank you for having me. Yes, I hope I can continue to do this for a few more years because I do love it and I love the relationships I build. So thanks for having me.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Michelle Jarvis

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 26, 2024 by Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Uncategorized 0

Stephen Hoyland – Assistant Superintendent Education Services at Battle River School Division

Stephen Hoyland – Assistant Superintendent Education Services at Battle River School Division
About Stephen Hoyland

Stephen Hoyland is the Assistant Superintendent -Education Services at Battle River School Division in Camrose, Alberta. Over his career, Stephen has taught Grades 4 to 12 ranging in subjects from Art, English, Social Studies and French.
Stephen was a school administrator for thirteen years. He took on the role of Director of Human Resources for three years and now is in his second year as Assistant Superintent – Education Services.

Throughout his career, Stephen has worked closely with students to promote their voice and ideas through student councils. Stephen believes that teachers succeed by listening to and learning from their students, as their voices shape meaningful impact in our schools. In order to make a difference in the lives of students and teachers, Stephen strives to be relationship focused, collaborative, energetic and hopeful.

Connect with Stephen Hoyland: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Battle River School Division

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend, Stephen Hoyland. Stephen is the Assistant Superintendent of Educational Services with the Battle River School Division. Stephen, thank you so much for coming on the show here today.

Stephen Hoyland
Oh, Sam, I’m so excited. Thanks for having me. It means a lot just to spend some time with you today.

Sam Demma
I’m so excited to chat with you. Did you know when you were a student yourself that one day you’d be working supporting staff and students?

Stephen Hoyland
You know, for when I was a kid, no. When I actually did become a teacher, a lot of my friends that I went to high school with, they couldn’t believe that I was the guy that actually became the teacher from the class. I knew, Sam, like I had some great teachers and that made some impact in me when I was young.

Stephen Hoyland
I remember I was in grade six and I was struggling with my spelling, and the teacher sent me to a remedial room, and I just remember how that felt—like I was being pulled out. The teacher in there, after about a week, he came up to me, and this wouldn’t be said now in a class, but he said, “Stephen, are you stupid?” And I—it was a shock. And I said, “Pardon?” He goes, “Like, honestly, are you stupid?” And I said, “No.” And he goes, “Exactly. Don’t ever, ever forget that. And I never want to see you back here.”

Stephen Hoyland
For me, that was one of those moments where I went, okay. I wasn’t expecting a teacher to say that. Like I said, a teacher would never say that now, but for me, it was pivotal. I saw somebody that believed that I could actually do what I needed to do. That was one of those moments where I went, okay, I can build on this, and I can have faith in myself. And yeah, in grade six, I really started to realize, hey, I can do this.

Stephen Hoyland
I had some teachers along the lines that really challenged me in high school and made me realize my potential. And so what I did, Sam, is I love challenges. When I finished high school, I came from a small town in Alberta where nobody spoke French, and I wanted to be bilingual. I just—I wanted to be bilingual.

Stephen Hoyland
I wanted to be able to be that Canadian that could speak French and English. So I enrolled in what was called the Faculty Saint-Jean through the University of Alberta. I took my degree there, and I did not know hardly any French. I was just someone that was supported by a lot of different people, whether they were from Quebec or Francois-Breton. They really helped me and made me realize that, okay, if I have a challenge, if I have a dream, there are going to be people there that can help me. And yeah, I became bilingual, and that really opened up many doors for me in my career.

Sam Demma
You said you love challenges. Was it always like that for you, or where did that come from?

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, it has always been—I love challenges. Coming from a small town, knowing that post-secondary was the key to opening a lot of doors, I just knew that if I wanted to do something that was going to be enriching and bring me happiness, I needed to set goals. Setting the goal to become bilingual, even though I hardly knew any French—I took three years of French in high school—and deciding, okay, I want to become bilingual, immerse myself, go to Quebec, take university there, and travel the world. That mindset of creating new goals was huge for me.

Stephen Hoyland
When I became a teacher, I started thinking outside of the box. I began teaching new courses, courses I had absolutely no reference to, and learned from that. I just kept on pushing myself to do what I needed to do. Eventually, Sam, it came to going to different schools and being identified as, “Hey, are you interested in administration? We think you’d be a great fit.” I threw myself out there. One thing I said when I was young in my career was, “I love being a teacher. I don’t want to be an administrator.” Then I became an assistant principal—I loved it. After a while, I decided, “Okay, I’m going to become a principal.” During that time, I also pursued my master’s, which I said I never wanted to go back to university for. But I learned from that and kept setting those goals. That was important.

Sam Demma
How important do you think it is for young people to set goals? It sounds like it had a big impact on you.

Stephen Hoyland
You know, when you’re young—I mean middle school—you’re really enjoying your friends, your peer groups, and at that point, the goals aren’t at the forefront. But I really do believe that if you have a bit of an idea of what’s going to make you happy, what’s going to give you contentment in life, then focus on a goal at that age. Once you get into high school, I think this can be difficult for young people too. Often, family or neighbors are asking, “What are you going to do when you’re done school? What do you want to do?” That puts a lot of pressure on kids.

Stephen Hoyland
I think if kids have a bit of an idea of what they might like to do, that makes a big difference. Starting with a small goal, and then life experiences can really build upon that and direct you into something that’s going to bring you happiness.

Sam Demma
You’ve offered an insight into your own story of the goal you set. Typically, when we think about goals, we think about students’ career-path-related goals. But your goal was to learn French. You didn’t say, “I want to be a French teacher,” or “I want to teach a language in the future.” You said, “There’s a skill out there that I’m curious about, and I want to improve at it and learn.” And it opened doors for you. I think if we can encourage more young people to set goals related to their curiosities or just building skills, the building of a skill will open doors or pathways in the future.

Sam Demma
Most of the time, when you become proficient or good at something, you can add value—and we need people that can add value. And I still suck at French. So if I met your grade six teacher, he would probably be like, “Sam, are you stupid?”

Stephen Hoyland
Oh, and you know, yeah, and it’s—you’ve nailed it. It’s just about finding those things, those skill sets, that bring you that fulfillment and, at the same time, challenge you. Run with it and grow as a person.

Sam Demma
There’s a book that I was recently recommended by my godfather. I played golf with him and my dad recently, and he manages lots of people in his role. So I was asking him about leadership and managing others, and he told me to check out this book called Principles by Ray Dalio. He said it was foundational in the way he leads his teams.

Sam Demma
I was reading the book, and one of the statements stuck out to me. It said, “The success doesn’t come from achieving the goal; it comes from struggling well in the pursuit of the goal.” And I thought, you know, there are so many times in my life where I’ve reached the outcome that I thought was going to make me feel good. And when I hit the thing or achieve the quote-unquote goal, I actually felt kind of lost—like, because now I’m not struggling towards anything anymore.

Sam Demma
In your own journey, do you have any other goals? What are things that are causing you to struggle these days? What’s pulling Stephen forward?

Stephen Hoyland
Oh, that’s such a great question. In my role right now, Sam, I’m responsible for the learning that takes place in our school division. Over the last year, I’ve learned a lot about math and numeracy. As I said, I learned French and then became a humanities teacher. Now, in my new role, I am learning an awful lot around math and numeracy. I had to create some goals for myself last year.

Stephen Hoyland
One of them was to become more proficient at understanding what math and numeracy are and how I can support teachers. Over the last year, I’ve really dived into data and become a lot more data-informed with my team. Now I can look at results and say, “Oh my gosh, take a look at where these results are. This is what we need to do.”

Stephen Hoyland
So for me, as a goal right now, it is to better understand how I can support students to become better math and numeracy learners in our school division—and, with that, what I need to do to support our teachers. So right now, math and numeracy are something I am totally immersed in, learning more than I’ve ever known.

Sam Demma
Wow, that’s awesome, man. I think those are skills that benefit anybody, no matter what pathway they pursue in the future as well.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Sam Demma
One of the things that stood out to me when we collaborated with some of your schools and with Rayanne, your colleague, was that all the decisions you were making were based on data. And I think it’s so important that we make decisions based on data, not our personal assumptions or opinions.

Sam Demma
In fact, I’m making all these connections because now I’m reading this book. But this gentleman, Ray, was running a hedge fund, and that was the majority of his career. The decisions they were making were based on all the data they collected on the stock markets and different companies. They would input equations that would take all the previous data of years of financial numbers and projections and say, “If we made this decision based on all the previous data, what would our outcome be?”

Sam Demma
Then people would argue about it, saying, “Well, no, we need to do this.” Their philosophy was, “We have constructive disagreements, and then we test our ideas on data. Whatever the best outcome the data shows us, we move forward with that.” I think that’s kind of how you operate and how Rayanne and your team operate. Has the data surprised you in any way, shape, or form based on student needs or things that are happening in the schools?

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, it has. There have definitely been some great surprises. Last year, we created a new survey that we shared with parents, guardians, students, teachers—basically anybody that was a stakeholder. We put it out there and had a great response. There was a lot of positive feedback around where our school division has been and what we were doing to move forward.

Stephen Hoyland
It was kind of an affirmation of the positive things that have been happening in our school division for probably the last several years. Then there was also that voice saying, “Hey, have you considered this?” That’s the point, Sam, where we’re at right now—like, okay, we’ve done some really good things, but now it’s time to look at what other things we have to try. That came out of the data as well.

Stephen Hoyland
The thing I’ve learned with it is, if you’re going to ask people’s opinions—if you’re going to say, “We need this data”—you have to do something with it. You have to let everybody know that you’re actually doing something with it. Because it’s meaningless if you just take it in and don’t share those results or the next steps. That’s the biggest takeaway for me: if you want people’s opinions, if you want their voice, you have to make sure you value it and follow through with it.

Sam Demma
We have interacted three or four times now—three, maybe two or three times on Zoom calls, and once in person. There’s been a couple of consistent things every time: we’ve always laughed in some capacity, we’ve always smiled, and we’ve always shared stories. I’m wondering—you strike me as someone who’s very optimistic and someone who looks for the positive sides of things in life, because it is a choice. Is that something you taught yourself to do? Was it passed down from your parents? In a world filled with challenges, we could choose to focus on anything. You hold this really positive energy—where does it come from?

Stephen Hoyland
You know, yeah, I definitely grew up in a home where there was lots of love. There was always support from my parents. And then I married a wonderful, wonderful high school sweetheart, I guess you could say. We’ve tried to create a family where our kids know there’s always love, and we try to be optimistic about everything.

Stephen Hoyland
One thing I try to do, Sam, every day when I walk into this building is—people ask me how I’m doing, and I’m honest, and I’m usually excellent. And I’m excellent because my drive in could have been a wonderful sunrise, I had a great coffee, I listened to some great songs—I listened to The Lumineers this morning, man, that woke me up, it was fantastic. Just finding those little nuggets in life that really bring you contentment, because life is good. There’s a lot of great things. If you can find that and be that example for other people, you can spread that optimism and that energy.

Stephen Hoyland
It’s much easier to have a smile than a frown. And you know what? Hurt is contagious too, but people need energy, people need positivity. If I can come across as authentic—which is my goal—I want people to understand that there’s a lot of good things happening in life, and I try to find that every day.

Sam Demma
I think it also models the behavior for students. Like you said, it’s contagious, and especially as an adult or a teacher. I remember some of my teachers—I’d walk into the room and hear, “Good morning, how’s everyone doing?” Some kids were still waking up, but I’d reply, “Good morning, sir, how are you?” It really wakes you up.

Sam Demma
I’ve even had experiences in my own life where I was feeling upset or frustrated, and I walked onto a bus where the driver was singing music and cracking jokes. The way other people show up and the energy they carry has an impact on how I feel. I think it’s the same in the workplace or in school buildings. When you think of people who have had a big impact on you, who comes to mind? I’m assuming your parents, it sounds like. But have you had any other mentors or role models who have really shaped the way you think about things? When you think about your own journey, who are the people whose names you can’t leave out?

Stephen Hoyland
I was really fortunate growing up in a small town, so I got to know a lot of people who made a difference in my life—neighbors who were like grandparents. But as time went by, I’ve had the privilege of working with some wonderful, wonderful teachers and other administrators—assistant principals who have given me great inspiration and affirmation around the work we were doing together.

Stephen Hoyland
For me, it’s about being part of a team and surrounding yourself with people who challenge you, inspire you, and feed you with their energy and great ideas. Right now, I’m on a team that fills my bucket every day, brings me energy, and challenges me to think and do better. So to answer your question, it’s surrounding yourself with people who lift you up and are open to great suggestions—while you’re also open to theirs—and you work collaboratively. And honestly, my kids. I have three kids, and they give me a lot of inspiration, great ideas, and they inspire me to do better.

Sam Demma
One of the things my godfather told me while golfing was this: “You have to create an environment that encourages mistakes but doesn’t tolerate not learning from them.” So when a mistake is made, it’s like, “Congratulations, let’s talk about this,” and then you have an open conversation.

Sam Demma
In your own career, are there any quote-unquote “mistakes” or learning lessons that have been instrumental for you—aside from the fact that you cheer for the wrong hockey team? Is there anything else that sticks out?

Stephen Hoyland
You know, yeah, over my career, I’ve definitely made some mistakes. I’m just trying to pinpoint something… Well, you know what? It kind of ties to mistakes and challenges. I wanted to become bilingual, so I went to the Faculté Saint-Jean. After a year, I realized, “I can’t do this. I just cannot. I don’t have what it takes.” And my dad said, “Well, you know what, son? If it’s something you can’t do, then look at other options.”

Stephen Hoyland
So what I did was I applied to another faculty that was all in English. At that time, I thought it was a great idea. I got accepted and was ready to leave the Faculté Saint-Jean. But something pivotal happened. I went to Quebec for a summer. I went to university there for three months, and during that time, I realized, “I can do this. I do have what it takes.”

Stephen Hoyland
During that summer, I was writing letters back to the university, saying, “Please, I don’t want to leave. I want to stay. This is where I want to be.” Thankfully, I was able to stay. At the time, I thought it was too much, but stepping back and reflecting helped me realize I could do it. Sometimes you need to put things in perspective and understand you’re not alone—there are people who will help you. Part of it is believing in yourself.

Stephen Hoyland
What happened, Sam, is I actually took an extra year to get my first degree. That’s because it was all in French, and I look back at that now—it was probably the best thing I ever did.

Sam Demma
Year well spent.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, it sure was.

Sam Demma
Your role now is having such a great impact on so many—you’re supporting staff, whole school buildings, and students and their families. What is your leadership style? How do you believe you effectively lead other people?

Stephen Hoyland
You know, I really believe, Sam, that it’s about the team. I believe I need to be in contact with administrators, principals, and assistant principals. I need to be talking with teachers. For me, it’s about getting their voice and weighing their ideas with my own thoughts. I want to consider what I think is best versus what’s practical.

Stephen Hoyland
For me, my approach is transparency. To be transparent, I need to listen and collaborate with those people who are walking the walk and learning every day. Being very collaborative is the basis of how I lead.

Sam Demma
Outside of the work you do with the school board, what do you do personally to ensure your own cup is full so you’re showing up laughing, smiling, and supporting others?

Stephen Hoyland
One thing my wife and I truly love to do is hiking. We live on the prairies, but we have beautiful access to land where we can hike. On those hikes, we’ll see elk, deer, and all sorts of birds and animals. That really grounds me—it brings me peace and contentment.

Stephen Hoyland
Spending time with my family is also huge. My kids live in Edmonton and Calgary, so we visit them as much as possible. That brings a sense of connection and fulfillment. Talking a lot with my wife is important too—having someone who understands life and listens to you makes a big difference.

Stephen Hoyland
And one more thing, Sam—I’ve been trying meditation. I’ve been doing it for about two months now, and I’m a huge fan of it.

Sam Demma
Ah, that’s awesome, man. I’m so glad it’s going well.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, it’s great.

Sam Demma
I’ve had good experiences myself, and when things feel more challenging, I notice I haven’t meditated in a while. Maybe there’s a correlation.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, I totally get that. Meditation is very peaceful—it’s kind of like a reboot.

Sam Demma
Yeah, it helps you. One of my friends said meditation is not about calming your mind, it’s about losing your mind. Recognizing that some of your thoughts aren’t even yours, and you can let them pass by.

Stephen Hoyland
Yeah, absolutely.

Sam Demma
This whole conversation felt like a nice reset or reboot for me. I appreciate you taking the time to share your ideas, philosophies, and stories. I hope we have another chance to cross paths soon. And when we do, hopefully, there won’t be any bears or elk around—I don’t care much for those things. But keep up the great work, my friend. It’s a pleasure to chat.

Stephen Hoyland
Thanks so much, Sam, and thanks for making a difference in so many lives.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Stephen Hoyland

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 10, 2024 by Battle School Division Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success 0

Michelle Gauthier – Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board

Michelle Gauthier – Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board
About Michelle Gauthier

Michelle Gauthier is the Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board.  She has been an educator for 30 years in a variety of roles.  She began her teaching career as an ESL and Special Education teacher before completing a Master’s Degree in Counselling and beginning her work as a high school counsellor.  
Her experience supporting students with complex needs led her into administration where she continues to advocate to bring wellness, equity and inclusion to the forefront.  Michelle’s guiding principle remains that educators (administration, teachers, support staff – everyone in the building) must work to provide a safe, welcoming and inclusive environment where students feel loved and part of a community.  Once students feel cared for and safe, they are better prepared to take risks, embrace challenges, learn, and thrive.

As Principal, not only does Michelle make wellbeing and community building a priority for students but she also recognizes the importance of these for staff.  She works hard to ensure her staff feels supported and appreciated, providing an environment in which they feel inspired to bring their best to work each day.  Michelle is grateful for the opportunity to work with staff and students to create a community where young people can grow into their best selves.  She appreciates this privilege and recognizes the gift that she is given in her role as Principal.

Connect with Michelle Gauthier: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School

Ottawa Catholic School Board

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by Michelle Gauthier, the principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School. She is someone that I met, and I’m excited to have her back on the podcast, or have her on the podcast and see her again. Michelle, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Michelle Gauthier
All right.

Michelle Gauthier
Well, it’s good to see you again, Sam. I have to tell you, when you invited me to do this, I was really honored. When you came to Frank Ryan, I didn’t really know entirely what to expect, but your energy and the way you interacted with our students was so vibrant. And I just I feel really honored to be here today. So, yeah, I don’t I didn’t really know what to expect, but I’m really honored that you invited me.

Sam Demma
Well, the energy in your school was just as palpable for me. And there’s something special about the community you’ve cultivated with the staff and the students. What are some of the key values or characteristics you strive to embed within your school culture and community?

Michelle Gauthier
Well, Frank Ryan’s a pretty special place.

Michelle Gauthier
So we’re an intermediate school, but only grades seven and eight. And it’s the last one in our school board that’s a standalone intermediate school. So the students are here; they’re not mixed with elementary kids, they’re not mixed with high school kids—it’s just for them. So it’s a really cool opportunity for us to help them develop their leadership skills. And for me, it’s a pretty special place because I went here.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, the kids get a kick out of that when I tell them. I say, “Yeah, I went here as a student,” and then when I tell them what year I graduated, I think all their jaws drop. So I graduated in 1984 from here. And even some of their parents, I don’t think, were born by then. So it’s a special place—Frank Ryan has a great history. But, you know, I feel really privileged to be in this role as a principal because I can impart what’s most important to me in a school. And I have that ability to decide, “This is what I want to focus on. This is what I want our staff to focus on.”

So to answer your question, what’s most important to me is that kids want to come to school, that they feel happy—not just the students, but the staff. I was just talking with my vice principal this morning and just saying, you know, if we can make sure staff feel good and they’re happy, then that’s going to translate to the students in their classrooms. So a big part for me is a real focus on community and people feeling like this is a home, this is a place where they belong and are cared for.

Sam Demma
What do you think makes a young person want to show up to school?

Michelle Gauthier
For me, it’s that we know them, that they’re known. And that’s, again, some of our schools are getting so big that students can get lost. So it’s a real challenge. We have some high schools right now, grades 7 to 12, that are sitting at 2,500 students. So I feel pretty blessed here that we have, we just have just under 500 students.

For us to be able to stand at the door every morning and say, “Good morning, welcome back,” and be able to say their names, and that they feel known—it’s like a home for them, you know. And that’s what I want from the teachers as well is that they’re greeting the kids at the door, they take an interest, you remember, you know, if they told you something about, you know, going for grandpa’s dinner on the weekend, then on Monday maybe say, “How was dinner?” Just that they really feel like they’re, you know, acknowledged as people.

Sam Demma
You started in counseling and you have a degree in counseling. Did you know you were going to end up in administration in the school or like how did your own pathway unfold as you were growing up?

Michelle Gauthier
Wow, that’s a good question because I don’t think I was ever one of those people that was saying, “This is exactly what I want to do,” or “This is exactly where I want to be.” I started university in math, and then that wasn’t working. So I had—my mom was a math teacher. My dad was an actuary. So math was a big part of our home. And—but I always had private tutors all through school.

So when I went off to university, it was like, “Okay, maybe this isn’t my passion.” And it took me a bit to find it. But in hindsight, it was always there. And I think I’m very close to my dad, and I think it was always clear to him. But second year university, I was really struggling with what my concentration would be, and I finally—my dad said, “You know what, you need to get into education. You know, you were always the one, like the cousin who would take care of the little cousins or the one to babysit.”

And I was a lifeguard, and I taught swimming, and he saw it in me. I don’t know that I was, you know, mature enough to see it in myself. But he encouraged me, and I joined the education department, and I just flew from there. All of a sudden, I was, you know, I loved school, I loved learning, I loved that whole area that I was studying in, and I was lucky to get a job right away. And I just love working with kids.

The counseling has always been there. So I had a bit of a different degree. I went to McGill University in Quebec. Their education program is a bit different. It’s a four-year program. My degree was in teaching English as a second language. And when I came back to Ontario, I got a job as an ESL teacher right away, which was really curious. But the way it works in Ontario back then was you are like a resource teacher, like a special education teacher. So I was the ESL teacher; that’s kind of the realm that I was in.

And what that became was really that support, that advocate for students. So the advocate, you know, as a special education teacher, which I was as well. So I started as an ESL teacher advocating for my newcomer students. Then I moved into special education and advocating for, you know, students with special needs.

I did my master’s in counseling and went into guidance counseling. Did I think I was going to go into admin? No. But I think as I moved through guidance, I realized the role of an administrator—there’s a lot of counseling that happens. And the work that we do with parents and families, reassuring them, supporting them, helping them through some difficult times—I felt I was really well-positioned with my skills of supporting newcomers, supporting families, and students with special needs as a guidance counselor.

So now as an administrator, I really get to help those families and use a lot of my counseling skills. It was a big decision for me to leave counseling and go into administration because I loved what I did. I had an opportunity to fill in for a vice principal who was off for a bit. And during that little term, I realized, “Wow, I’m using—probably my counseling skills were one of my number one skills to use in administration, whether it’s family, students, or staff.”

All those skills were so transferable. So now I get to, in a sense, lead the school. I decide on the direction. And for me, knowing that what’s most important to me is a school where people feel welcome, I really feel privileged that I can steer that boat.

Sam Demma
Young people and humans, in general, are carrying so much in their backpacks these days when it comes to struggles or challenges or changes in the world. How do you counsel well? How do you provide counsel to somebody? Or if they’re going through a challenge, how do you be there for them from the perspective of a counselor?

Michelle Gauthier
Yeah. You really have to be a good listener. And again, it comes down to making a person feel heard and cared for. Often people, you know, you go to counseling and think, “Okay, this person’s going to give me the answer.” And that’s not the case. That’s not what good counseling is. Good counseling is helping someone find their own answers.

So, for me, it’s number one—the fact that students share with you means they trust you. And so you’re there to just understand them, not to try to put your own understandings on them, but really give them the time and jump into their shoes.

Because the reality is, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and my reality is very different from theirs. I can’t begin to understand what they’re going through. I can, you know, I can do my best to empathize, but they need to teach me. So a good counselor is someone who really listens to make that person feel like, “Okay, share with me.” And as they’re sharing, they’re often coming to their own answers.

So, you know, that’s, I think, the best way to approach it.

Sam Demma
You support the staff, which supports the students, but I know from being in your school that you are in the building running around everywhere nonstop, appearing in classrooms, being a part of the assembly programs. Where did your leadership principles develop from? Did you have some really solid mentors, or have you learned over the years from your experiences? Where did you form your own principles?

Michelle Gauthier
And my leadership style, I guess, is what you’re looking at. So sometimes—and I’ve told this to some of my former mentors—you see people wearing the bracelets. You know, sometimes you’ll have a bracelet that says, “What would Jesus do?” or that type of thing. And that’s—my number one mentor would be, you know, just that whole idea of Jesus Christ as servant leader and servant leadership. I’m here to serve.

But I have other bracelets that I wear, and there are former principals that I’ve—you know, I sometimes think, “What would Steve do?” Oh, sorry, there’s our bell. You know, “What would Steve do?” or “What would Greg do?” or “What would Norma do?” And so, those people who—you know, I’ve worked with lots of different administrators, and I take bits from all of them that meant a lot to me. And I wear their bracelets on my wrist, and they help me when I’m in a difficult situation trying to think, “What’s the best approach here?”

And all leaders have different styles and personalities. So I’ll pull on each one of those when I know—“I know Norma would be able to deal with this well,” or “I know what Steve would do.” So that’s, yeah.

Sam Demma
I had a three-year experience with a coach in my life. His name’s Chris Cummins. And we would talk every Tuesday for about an hour and a half, and I would bring to him all of my problems and challenges in my professional pursuit. And he would bring to me questions that would help me uncover the answers I needed to hear—good counseling.

And you can’t see it, but off to the left of my office is a document on the wall that says “The Cummins Commandments.” And I actually created this as a gift to him when our coaching experience ended. And it was the principles that, from our three years of conversation, are things that I would carry forward in my life as a result of the time we had spent.

When you talk about Greg and Norma and Jesus, it makes me think of the time that I shared with Chris. And so I appreciate you sharing that. I think that learning from others is one of the best ways to form our own thoughts and ideas and principles.

One of the experiences that I think of the most in terms of my own education as a student was teachers who made me feel really special, who listened very well. And some of those experiences I had with those educators—they’re things that I’ll remember for the rest of my life. Can you think of any experiences recently where a student has been recognized or celebrated and you think, “Gosh, this is going to be a moment that this young person remembers for the rest of their life”?

Michelle Gauthier
Absolutely. And there’s a few of them, and I have so many memories too. So I’ll just tell you one little story about—I was at a Starbucks, this was a number of years ago, maybe 10 years ago. And this young man stopped me, and he goes, “Miss Gauthier?”

And I’m like—and I’ve taught so many kids over the years. And he introduced himself, and he goes, “You might not remember me, but you taught me grade eight. And I used to like the environment. And you brought me a little flyer that you saw in the Body Shop. And you said it made you think of me, and you gave it to me, and you influenced me to go into environmental sciences.”

And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” We never know the tiny little things we do, the impact they have.

But to answer your question a little bit more about something more recent, I have a student—so I had an opportunity about three weeks ago. The principal of our Safe Schools program reached out to a few principals and said—“We have this opportunity to recognize a student who exemplifies kindness, leadership, and joy. Do you have a student in mind?”

And I was like, “Yes.”

And it was not hard for me to think of who. And it’s this young girl in our school. Her name is Favour. And, you know, she has made it her mission this year to bring joy. And I have to say, it’s been our focus at Frank Ryan on just building character and how important it is and the elements of character.

She’s in grade eight now, so it’s her second year. And she came to me early in the year and she asked, “Miss Gauthier, can I do the joke of the week?” Because we had—she loves jokes.

And I said, “Sure.”

And so she was putting jokes on our daily announcements. And then one day, I was walking through the hall and, geez, Favour is telling me a joke every day. And I asked her, “You know, Favour, you must really like jokes.”

And she said, “I do. Jokes make people happy and make people laugh. And I think that’s really important. And I want to make people laugh.”

So I wrote that up in that little quick blurb to the Safe Schools principal, who sent it to the police, and she was chosen for the bike.

And it was so sweet. When we went to the police station on the weekend—the Ride to Remember is just a ride that police officers across the province of Ontario do to remember fallen officers. And they ride all the way from Thunder Bay to Ottawa, and they stop along the way.

At each stop, they were going to gift a youth with a bike. So here we are on Saturday, and Favour was our chosen student for Ottawa. Her dad was there, her sister was there, and they’re not a family that has a lot.

And just the pride on their faces—the pride of her dad wanting to have his picture with her and the officer. When they did the presentation, they said a little bit about why she was chosen, that she likes to say jokes. And so they gave her an opportunity. She wasn’t shy at all, and she had a joke for the chief of police.

So here’s this grade eight student ready to tell the chief of police a joke. And she said, “What do you call a bike that can’t stand?”

And he looked at her, and she said, “Any guesses?”

And she’s so confident with him—I was so proud of her. And he’s like, “No.”

And she said, “Too tired.”

Michelle Gauthier
And everybody just laughed.

It was so perfect. But that is something I think she will remember. I will remember for sure. That’ll bring her forward, and we’re celebrating that as a community. We took pictures of her, and we put it on our daily announcements, celebrating her as a role model for the other students as well.

Just be a good person, and the world will work in your favour, you know. So, yeah, that was a really sweet, sweet memory that I’ll have for a long time, and I think she will too.

Sam Demma
The Starbucks experience is one that I think a lot of teachers can resonate with. And this story about Favour is one that I’ll also remember for a long time. While you were sharing it, it made me think of students’ pathways in life.

And maybe Favour will be a comedian in the future. If jokes are something that she is extremely passionate about, you just never know. I think it’s so important to give young people platforms to explore the things that make them excited. And maybe “Joke of the Week” becomes “Joke of the Day” if she has that much comedy or jokes to share.

Hearing that the family showed up and how happy, excited, and confident she was is such a beautiful story. So I appreciate you for sharing that on the show.

Michelle Gauthier
My pleasure.

Sam Demma
I know that there are likely many educators tuning in who are needing a little bit more joy and laughter in their life. If there’s an educator listening who’s feeling a little burnt out, and the start of the school year has been a little bit challenging, what advice would you share with them or words of support?

Michelle Gauthier
So I think the big one for me is to remember why you’re here. You’re here for the kids.

Find the joy, you know, find the joy in the kids. It’s been an intense start for us at Frank Ryan—just a lot going on, all good, but a lot going on. And last week, there was a moment where I was a little bit overwhelmed and feeling stuck in my office.

And I just said, “I gotta get out.”

And I went out, and I just—I went to the cafeteria where all the grade sevens—so 250, you know, 11- and 12-year-olds gathered in one room. You can imagine the chaos that that is. And I just stood in the middle of it.

And one of the teachers said to me, “Are you looking for someone?”

And I’m like, “No, no, I just needed to be here. I just needed to be in the middle of this chaos of these beautiful kids and just reconnect to the joy and reconnect to why we’re here.”

And all these kids, it may seem chaotic and crazy, but they’re all smiling. They’re having fun. And I think, you know, when we’re getting overwhelmed, it’s just to sit back and remember why we’re here.

These kids are just precious, and it’s not an easy road, especially pre-adolescence and intermediate school. It’s not an easy task. I’m not sure I’d want to go back to grade seven and eight. So just to remember that we are privileged to be educators, and we have a real privilege to be able to make a difference for these kids and help them when life is hard.

Life is not easy for kids these days when we look at all that they’re facing. So what a gift we have to bring joy. And when you’re feeling a bit depleted, find the kid that brings you joy.

Sam Demma
That’s such good advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show, Michelle, and share some of your ideas around counseling, being a good listener, your leadership style, some of the stories of impact in your schools, the importance of wellbeing, and supporting the staff in the building.

It’s been a privilege chatting with you. Keep up the amazing work, keep up the laughter and the joy in the building, and I look forward to crossing paths again very soon.

Michelle Gauthier
Yeah, we hope to have you back soon, Sam. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Michelle Gauthier

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 5, 2024 by Education Educator Principals School Administration School Counsellor Student Success Teachers 0

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School
About Martina Fasano 

Martina Fasano began her teaching career in 2003 at YCDSB’s St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School. She also taught grade 8 at Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School before returning to the secondary panel and eventually serving as the department head of Canadian and World Studies at St. Maximilian Kolbe, where she taught economics, law, and history. As a vice-principal, Martina has had the honour and privilege of serving both the Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy as well as the St. Brother Andre Catholic High School communities prior to being appointed as the principal of St. Elizabeth.

Martina has served on various committees at the Board level, including the YSCPC (York Secondary Catholic President’s Council), Drug and Alcohol Awareness (DAW), and the Covid-19 Logistics and Planning Committee. She was also a member of the committee that developed teacher resources for the history curriculum revisions which focused on the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Calls to Action to embed Indigenous history into the grade 10 history curriculum in Ontario. As a member of the Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association (OHASSTA), Martina also developed curriculum-based teacher modules on behalf of the Ontario Ministry of Education as part of a targeted project about the role of school trustees.

Throughout her career, Martina’s passion for engaging students has been at the forefront of her efforts toward forward thinking curriculum development in the social sciences, student leadership, school-based digital tool implementation, arts education, school/student safety, and data-informed school improvement. She has also had the opportunity to work with music industry professionals in the capacity of musician, author, social media manager, and public relations strategy. These experiences have allowed Martina to connect student learning to the world beyond the classroom, and bring exciting and dynamic opportunities to the school communities that she has served.

Connect with Martina Fasano: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School

Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School

St. Maximilian Kolbe

Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy

St. Brother Andre Catholic High School

St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by my good friend, Martina Fasano. Martina and I met just over a year ago now. She began her teaching career just over 20 years ago, and she is now a phenomenal principal of a school in the York Catholic District School Board. I’m going to allow her to introduce herself.

Sam Demma
Martina, please share a little bit about who you are with the audience.

Martina Fasano
Thank you so much for having me, Sam. Yeah, it’s been almost over a year now, which before you did your first gig here at St. E’s. So yes, I’m the principal here at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School, home of the Regional Arts Program as well, and having a great time.

Sam Demma
So you have one of the most interactive offices I’ve ever walked into in a school building. There are records hanging on the wall, guitars, and interesting objects on the shelves. Tell me a little bit about your own involvement in the arts that makes you so passionate about being at St. Elizabeth.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely, so I’ve been myself a musician probably since I was about maybe in the fifth grade or so. I’m not counting the drum set that I got when I was about four years old. But so that part is something very near and dear to my heart. Arts education in general for me was really something that helped shape who I am and the self-discipline that came from it. It was an even playing field, is what I would call it.

You start out where I was very fortunate. I was in a school board in Toronto, a Toronto Catholic as a student, and we started our music education programs there in grade 6 with a full band program. So that was the first time I had actually played music in a group, and you basically had a chance to start from scratch and learn an instrument, practice, and do all those things.

And I figured out very quickly that if you just practice and you play all the right notes at the right time, then everything sounds nice. So that’s kind of a metaphor too, for life in general, which is kind of where I took it. I started out as a saxophone player—that was my first instrument—together with piano. And then by the time I got to be a teenager, I added guitar in there because I was listening to a lot of rock, metal, and grunge at the time. It was the height of the grunge era, let’s say, with Nirvana and Pearl Jam and all those guys.

But definitely something that I carried into adulthood, into university. You jump from high school into post-secondary or into “What am I going to do with my life?” To quote Dee Snider from Twisted Sister, “What are you going to do with your life?” We want to rock, right? So I looked at going into the music industry from a more—not just the creative aspect—but looked into the business side of things.

That didn’t really resonate with me because I wasn’t doing anything that I enjoyed in my post-secondary program. I started out in business administration, and I thought, “I can’t do this for the rest of my life. I’m bored. There’s no creativity happening anywhere.” People work in cubicles. I can’t do that. And that’s why my office looks the way it does. It needs to have things in it that bring joy, make me happy, and serve as conversation pieces.

Because when a student walks in, for me, this is just my workspace. But for a student, especially if they’ve never been in trouble, they assume the principal is there to get you in trouble. So I don’t see it that way. But I noticed very early on in my career as an administrator, they see the title that’s on the door. And I noticed that having a lot of these little things around helped kind of put them at ease because they were conversation pieces.

So we get to that before we get to why the student was there. And most often, the student actually is not here because they’re in trouble. So it’s kind of a reputation thing—people think you only get sent to the principal’s office when you’re in trouble—but we’re dealing a lot more with supporting students as opposed to discipline.

Sam Demma
Well, you’re also the only principal that has a record on the wall with the plaque and their name on it. What is it all about?

Martina Fasano
So, the one that’s hanging in my office was actually when I left a school I was at, St. Maximilian Colby. The Canadian World Studies Department re-recorded Hotel California and changed all the lyrics as a goodbye gift. So that’s what’s hanging on the wall. And the little plaque actually has all of the changed lyrics, which are actually quite funny if you read them.

And it’s interesting because I do have a real one at home that 17-year-old me probably would have been really, really happy about. And, you know, wouldn’t have believed me if I said, “You’re going to end up getting a platinum record, but it’s not for what you think.” You’re not going to be in the band, you’re not going to be one of the producers, and you’re not going to be one of the managers, but it’s going to happen by way of your involvement in the music industry somehow.

And I would have laughed at you and said, “Sure, okay, whatever.” But I ended up being a ghostwriter for a rock musician, and that was the gift. The gift was the platinum record from the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack because the band that the artist originally recorded with, The Runaways, which is Joan Jett’s first band, had a number-one song, Cherry Bomb, which went to number one when Guardians of the Galaxy came out as a movie.

So, the record went platinum, and that person that I ghostwrote for was in that band. They got the platinum record and decided to also get me one because I was working on her book at the time. It was just about finished when that happened.

So that’s kind of cool. You’re right, I don’t know of any other principals that maybe came to education for the same reason. For me, it was like, “Why do you want to work with young people? Why do you want to specifically be around teenagers all day?” I get that question a lot.

And for me, it’s quite easy. There’s an energy to young people and a hope to young people that they naturally have that unfortunately, for a long time, schools have kind of almost stifled. And I thought in my wisdom as a young person myself when I made the decision, “If I can maybe change the way schools work, maybe it doesn’t have to be boring, maybe it doesn’t have to be something where there’s all these expectations, instead of actually cultivating a lifelong love of learning.”

Because when you look at, “My mom really wants me to do this and go to university to have this job, and I don’t want to do it, and I don’t know how to tell her,” I’ve had quite a few conversations with students and their parents about that. The fact that I switched my major halfway through from business administration to fine arts cultural studies, talk about a complete polar opposite.

But you have to find what brings you joy. You can make lots of money and maybe even be powerful in some cases doing something that you don’t enjoy. But you’re not going to be as good at it, in my view. You’re not going to be as fulfilled as a human being. And in the end, for me, it was like, I would like to be for young people what I would have needed at the age that I was at all along the way.

And that goes for why I became a vice principal or a principal as well. What did I need when I was a first-year teacher? So that’s what you try to be for somebody else.

Sam Demma
What do you think first-year teachers need to hear, specifically ones that are starting in the education space today, with so much change, especially coming out of the pandemic?

Martina Fasano
That they don’t need to be afraid to take a risk. That it is supposed to be difficult, that all great things are, but that they don’t have to do school and classrooms the way maybe they experienced and to not be afraid to be different.

Because right now, in my personal view, we’ve been doing education wrong for a long time. We have all the great people in the buildings, we have all the great programming in the buildings, we have a curriculum that helps us open those doors. But we are also based on a model that came to be in the 1800s as part of the Industrial Revolution.

Public education was meant to get everyone in line and trained to go to work. Sitting in rows, being obedient, and doing repetitive drills—memorization and all these things. Maybe for that world, those were the skills that were needed. But right now, we live in a world that schools haven’t caught up with yet, if that makes sense.

A perfect example: I was at the Billie Eilish concert last night, and you have the stereotype that young people are lazy, not passionate about things. I saw about 20,000 young people who were quite passionate about what they were seeing. They weren’t bored, they weren’t lazy—they were jumping up and down. The place was almost thunderous.

And in my view, I thought to myself, “This is what school should be like with all these young people in a building. Why are we trying to make everybody so quiet?” It doesn’t make sense to me. So part of being here at St. Elizabeth and having the Regional Arts Program here is that you get to showcase that. You get to see people being creative all day long.

Even if someone’s not in the Regional Arts Program, they still get the benefit of being in that space where creativity is free to flow and to happen. It has an impact on the children that surround those kids that are in the program.

So that’s definitely what I say to a first-year teacher: Don’t be afraid to take the risk. Don’t be afraid to be authentic. The students will see right through you if you’re not.

Sam Demma
I perform at many schools, and I intentionally call it a performance for the same reason you think students shouldn’t be quiet. Like, it needs to be an experience where they have a say and a voice in it, and it speaks to them on an emotional level—not just an educational level—and evokes emotion.

So many times, I’ll finish a speech or a performance, and one of the teachers will walk over and go, “Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry that the students were so loud.” And I say, “No, I encourage it! I egg them on throughout the performance. I want that. Yes, this is what we want. We don’t want them to just sit there with their legs crossed and hands on their lap, just looking in silence.”

Martina Fasano
Yep. You don’t learn if you’re being passive; there’s no learning happening. I distinctly remember being in my second year of teaching, and I was teaching English at the time. The play we were doing was Romeo and Juliet, Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet.

I always had a problem with Shakespeare being taught the way it was. I used to say, “Us reading Shakespeare like a book is the same as showing children a movie by reading the screenplay.” It’s a play—you’re not supposed to be reading it; you’re supposed to be acting it out.

So, I had a relatively rowdy class. I remember that distinctly. I said, “I can’t do this to these kids. The things my department gave me to use, this is not what we’re going to do. We can’t do this. These children will not only get nothing out of this and miss the complete point of the story, but you cannot expect a young person to want to read that old English text as a dramatic piece and not ask them to act it out and see what’s going on.”

So, we constructed this day where we said, “First, we have to figure out what this section of the play is about. Where are we? What’s going on? Romeo and Juliet meet at the party.” So, we basically said, “We’re going to make it a masquerade party.”

We made masks and everything else. I had the vice principal, bless her heart, come by. There was all this noise coming out of my classroom. She knocks on the door, and I opened it, horrified. I thought, “Oh my God, someone must have complained, or something happened.”

I explained, “We’re acting it out because it’s a play.” And there was this pause, and I thought, “This is it; I’m in trouble.” But then she said, “I’m so glad that all this noise is coming out of here because it means the kids are learning. Keep it up and have a nice day.”

The kids thought they were in trouble too! What does that say? If we’re learning stuff and having a good time, we must be in trouble? So, as a classroom teacher, I made it a point to do things that are fun. You have to because if you don’t, you don’t learn. Even if some of them are cheesy or purposely cheesy, they’ll remember them because they’re memorable.

Sam Demma
I couldn’t agree more. I absolutely love that you shared that story, and I hope the educator listening to this reshapes how they think about student engagement. There’s a phenomenal book I’ve been reading called The Advantage by a guy named Patrick Lencioni. He talks about the difference between really successful organizations and ones that fall flat on their face.

One thing he mentions is cohesion among the leadership team. It could be cohesion in a classroom or a staff room. He says the whole team needs to weigh in their thoughts and have constructive disagreements. If the whole team doesn’t weigh in, they won’t buy in.

So, if there’s no weigh-in, there’s no buy-in. That stuck out in my head. When you think about a classroom, students weigh in by using their voice. You don’t want silent people silently agreeing. Silent agreement means they’ll leave the classroom and tell their friends, “I disagree with everything we just talked about in the classroom.”

You want thoughtful disagreement to come up with the best ideas. I love that you shared that story. Thank you so much.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. There’s a lot more where that came from. I eventually got the hint that if you don’t engage them, they won’t learn. Some of those kids in that class had repeated referrals to the office when they were in someone else’s class—repeated.

I knew that coming in because sometimes, unfortunately, I’d get warned and told, “Oh, you have so-and-so; watch out.” I did my best to know my audience. The best thing about teaching is the powerful, real-time feedback.

If you’re teaching a lesson and everyone’s asleep, guess what? You’re not reaching anybody. But you have that feedback in front of you. If you’re willing to step away from what you think you should be, because maybe that’s what you were used to or how you learned, you can adjust.

We’re preparing students for a world that doesn’t even exist yet, using methods and tools from an era long gone. Then we wonder why students aren’t engaged or willing to take creative risks. Starting from when they’re four years old, we teach them compliance. Line up in a straight line, or you get in trouble.

Structure is important because people thrive in it, but there’s a difference between structure for compliance and structure for growth. They’re two very different things.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love that. It’s like having a fence that keeps people in a space, but within that fence, there’s freedom. Is there any experience you’ve had as an educator or principal where you’ve had a big learning experience—something you tried that didn’t work out the way you thought but became a pivotal learning moment?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. One of the first things I learned as an administrator was related to communication. Let’s say there’s an initiative or a memo you put out, and a couple of teachers don’t follow through or do something different.

It’s easy to send a staff-wide email saying, “Remember to do this,” when really, you’re talking to just two people. I learned from doing that once that it’s not the best approach.

As a classroom teacher, how would I feel if I got that email and I was already doing everything right? So now, when I communicate, I think about the high-performing teachers doing amazing work. I base my decisions on the best people in the organization, not the outliers who didn’t follow through this week.

That applies to classroom management too. If you punish the whole class for one student’s behavior, it affects everyone’s morale. Make decisions based on your best people—it goes a long way.

Sam Demma
That’s such good feedback. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation, and I know the person listening feels the same. If they want to reach out, is it okay to put your email on the podcast page?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. They can also follow me on Instagram, where we post about our school’s Regional Arts Program, performances, exhibits, and more. There’s always a lot going on, which is why the hive metaphor works—it’s always buzzing, and that’s a good thing.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sam. All the best.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Martina Fasano

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 3, 2024 by Education Educator Mental Health Principals School Administration Student Leadership Teachers 0

Sylvain Bastien – High school teacher/guidance counsellor at École Secondaire Catholique Renaissance

Sylvain Bastien – High school teacher/guidance counsellor at École Secondaire Catholique Renaissance
About Sylvain Bastien

Sylvain Bastien is a high school teacher/guidance counsellor at École Secondaire Catholique Renaissance in Aurora, Ontario.  He is a proud franco-ontarian, born and raised in northern Ontario who enjoys the little things in life, or “petits bonheurs” as he likes to call them.  Former camp counsellor, gymnastics coach and national-level athlete, Sylvain spent most of his time growing up in a leadership role or working with kids.  He knew from a young age that he would become a teacher and continues to be a leader in his school community.  

For the first part of his career, Sylvain was a physical education teacher and shared his passion for a healthy and active lifestyle with students in courses like Fitness and Kinesiology.  He then moved to a guidance position before the pandemic and, with the help of his colleague, is continuously finding new ways to improve student well-being, student engagement and school spirit, all with the end goal of helping students become the very best version of themselves. 

Sylvain coaches the cross-country and track and field teams, works with the student council and helps with many other clubs and activities at the school.  He leads the SHSM Program at the school and has been a department lead for many years.  He is always seeking personal and professional growth by running, reading and balancing the demands of a chaotic life with three kids in sports! 

Connect with Sylvain Bastien: Email

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Resources Mentioned

École Secondaire Catholique Renaissance

SHSM Program

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Sylvain Bastien. He’s a high school teacher, guidance counselor, and one of my good friends. He is someone who I met just over a year ago now, and he’s running a lot, so you should follow him on Strava. But he’s doing a lot of good work. Sylvain, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Sylvain Bastien
Hey, Sam. Thank you very much for having me on the show. This is a pretty cool experience, and I’m happy to be here. Like Sam said, my name is Sylvain. I’m a high school teacher. I’ve been in the education world for over 15 years now. I started out with phys ed courses, fitness classes, teaching kinesiology. And then, I’d say about seven or eight years ago, I moved over into guidance, which was a big change for me. So I have since been a full-time guidance counselor with the odd course here and there, kind of keeping my foot in the classroom, which is really what lights me up the most. So yeah, that’s pretty much where I’m at in my professional world.

Sam Demma
When you were a national-level athlete, did you think you were one day going to work in education? Like, what was your own path like as a student?

Sylvain Bastien
I feel like education was always calling my name. I’ve always been involved with different activities that involved kids or teenagers and communities. It started out, even myself when I was in high school. Every opportunity I had to do something fun and be around my peers, that would just light me up. Then I kind of took the initiative of leading different activities and kind of took over some activities, and that just lit up the fire even more.

This led me to work at summer camps for seven summers, where kids would come spend their Monday to Friday with us. It was a residential camp, so they’d stay overnight. My involvement in gymnastics obviously always had me around young athletes and kids of all ages aspiring to be the next best gymnast. So, I was always around kids, and that always kind of fueled me. I knew that once I would have to move on to my career, the education world was where I was heading.

Sam Demma
How did your own involvement in sports growing up shape your future?

Sylvain Bastien
Yeah, that’s a really good question. And I talk about that all the time. Whether it be sport or any extracurricular, I feel like that really is what shapes you as a person. And I credit many people for that in my situation. It definitely did shape me because I had the pleasure of being surrounded by individuals with the same mentality and vision as myself.

It pushes you to learn things that you don’t always learn in a school setting or at home. It makes you develop certain habits and discover new things about yourself. I feel like all those years were definitely the good years. I owe a lot of who I am today to what I did back then.

Sam Demma
Sports still continue to be a massive part of your life because you’re in the parking lot of swimming pools a few times a week, and you’re also spending lots of time running. How important do you feel exercise is in ensuring you show up to the best of your ability at school?

Sylvain Bastien
It’s always been a big part of my life. Every day I had something active or an activity going on. Because of everything that gave me as a person, I feel like I want to give it back to as many people as possible.

In the early years of my career, when I was in the fitness classes teaching kids, we’d start with a group of 15 kids who had never run before, and they didn’t want to run. All they wanted to do was lift weights. I put them on a mission and said, “Guys, we can do something pretty cool if we set our minds to it.”

My tradition with my fitness class was always to plan to run a 10k with the students. We would have the semester to do it. At the beginning of the semester, the kids were always unsure if they could do it. But then they got into the swing of things, discovered a lot about themselves, and realized they were capable of pretty big things.

Sam Demma
One of the consistent things about your career has been working with young people, whether as a coach, guidance counselor, or teacher. How do you think you build effective rapport and relationships with young people?

Sylvain Bastien
I feel like it’s a lot in what we do and what we display as a person. We have to be the leader and set the example we expect our students or kids to follow. I strive to show students that it’s okay to have fun and be yourself.

We live in a world now where everything could be made easy, but I really try to build on the satisfaction and reward factor of putting in the work and seeing progression. That feeling of pride and accomplishment is what I want them to chase.

Sam Demma
Would you be willing to share one of those moments that reminded you why you started doing this work in the first place?

Sylvain Bastien
One of my favorite moments is at the beginning of the school year, when we host a traditional camp to welcome new students. Senior students lead activities for younger students, and it’s always a highlight. It’s amazing to see students from different social circles come together, be themselves, and shine. It reminds me why I love doing this work.

Sam Demma
In a world where students are constantly comparing themselves to others on social media, what challenges do you see students carrying on their shoulders?

Sylvain Bastien
A big challenge is students being afraid to be their authentic selves. In guidance, we focus on creating an environment where students feel it’s okay to have fun and be themselves. It’s a constant effort to help them build the skills they need to succeed and thrive.

Sam Demma
You also spearhead the SHSM programs at your school. Can you explain what SHSM is?

Sylvain Bastien
SHSM stands for Specialist High Skills Major. It allows students in grades 11 and 12 to earn certifications and participate in reach-ahead experiences with college and university partners, all while earning a specialized diploma in sectors like health and wellness or business. It’s a great way for students to build skills and network in their field of interest.

Sam Demma
How do you balance your professional responsibilities with your personal life?

Sylvain Bastien
It’s definitely challenging, but my wife and I make a good team. Living an active lifestyle helps us manage everything. We’ve been fortunate to find supportive communities in our kids’ sports, and that’s been a blessing. It takes a village, and we’re lucky to have one.

Sam Demma
It’s inspiring to see how you manage everything and still make time for what’s important. If an educator wants to connect with you, what’s the best way for them to reach out?

Sylvain Bastien
The best way would be via email. I’m happy to connect with anyone looking for information.

Sam Demma
Thank you, Sylvain. Keep up the amazing work, and I look forward to running with you soon.

Sylvain Bastien
Thank you very much, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sylvain Bastien

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 28, 2024 by Education Educator Mental Health Student Leadership Teachers 0

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