Education

Janis Volker – School Counselor at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School

Janis Volker - School Counselor at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School
About Janis Volker

Janis Volker is the School Counselor for grades 6-12 at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School. She started in the district in 2004 as the elementary counselor and spent 4 years at Roselawn Elementary School. In September 2008 she transitioned to the high school/middle school, making this her 21st year in the district. Prior to entering education she was a program coordinator for Barron County Restorative Justice for two years. That experience working with law enforcement, schools, and community members was a wonderful foundation to school counseling. She felt honored to be present with victims and offenders that worked to heal the harm that was caused.

In the high school/middle school she has many roles that support students, including the coordination of the Early College Credit, Advanced Placement, Start College Now, and Youth Apprenticeship programs. On a daily basis she is assisting students with their academic and career planning, college applications, scholarships, and providing individual counseling and SEL classroom instruction. She coordinates the ASVAB Career Exploration program and the PSAT/NMSQT, as well as assisting with the proctoring of state assessments. Behind every successful program and initiative at school is a team that works together to get everything accomplished. No one does it alone.

Advising students on their next steps and encouraging them to explore dual credit courses to earn college credits in high school are some of her favorite experiences working with students. Seeing the growth, both academically and socially, from year to year and celebrating them as they cross the stage at graduation; are some of the most rewarding days. She is proud to work in her district that is so supportive of students, families, and staff. 

Connect with Janis Volker: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School

Roselawn Elementary School

Barron County Restorative Justice

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam, and today we are joined by Janis Volker. Janis has been in education and counseling for a total of 21 years. She has worked in the middle school age bracket, the high school age bracket, and the elementary school age bracket. Janis and I will cross paths here shortly in her school district.

Sam Demma
And I’m so grateful that before I had the opportunity to chat with her. Janis, welcome to the show and thank you so much for being here.

Janis Volker
Good morning, thank you for having me.

Sam Demma
Tell us a little bit about what got you into education and wanting to support young people.

Janis Volker
Well, way back in high school, I thought I was going to be a college professor and I just had that in my mind, I’m going to be a teacher. And then I started off in college and, you know, I had a rough start. And I was once told, I don’t think your grades are going to get you into that school of education. And that really hit me hard.

Janis Volker
And it was a little bit of a wake-up call that this is serious. This is like, this is all counting, you know, I need to really figure myself out. And then I found my path down psychology and loved psychology. And that was my first degree. And then in my senior year, I discovered, oh, wow, this whole world of if I continue and get a master’s degree, I could actually work with students and help them in a way that I wanted to. And that’s how I discovered school counseling.

Sam Demma
What about psychology intrigued you?

Janis Volker
Well, I have to be honest. I think it was a lot of figuring out myself and my family and the dynamics and then also just being able to help other people. I found it fascinating, all the different theories, you know, psychotherapy. And I knew I didn’t necessarily want to do that, but I just wanted to be around students. But I didn’t think I wanted to teach.

Janis Volker
And so that’s how I found my way into the education system.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you married the best of both worlds. Work with young people, fulfill that love for psychology and supporting them with it. Tell me a little bit about after the psychology education, what happened next?

Janis Volker
I actually first started in school psychology and after just one term of it, had to do a shadowing experience with a school counselor. She was at the elementary level and I just loved her job. I thought it was, wow, look at her. She’s sitting on the floor with these stuffed animals talking to kids about their feelings. It was like, this is so much fun. And so I did that switch to school counseling right away in the program.

Janis Volker
But I think it was, you know, just, I didn’t realize when I first started college in psychology that I couldn’t probably get in front of people and help people unless I continued my education. Like the opportunities were more limited. So that’s why I decided to continue on. And I kept going. Took me a while because in that time I also was married and then became a mom myself and so didn’t take a direct path through college.

Sam Demma
Did you have a counselor in middle, high, or college that really supported you through your own transition or challenges?

Janis Volker
I definitely had people that supported me but I wasn’t one that would go and seek out help myself. So I didn’t really have that experience other than like helping with scheduling and talking about college visits and things like that. But it was a teacher of mine, a professor in my undergraduate that taught us all these career opportunities. And I think without him, I don’t know that I would have kept going. I was really thankful that he shared that with us before we graduated.

Sam Demma
You and I are very alike in the sense that we sometimes don’t go out of our way to seek the help we might need in the moment we need it. And I would argue that’s most people because of a stigma and a fear. And it may even be most students in a school building. Are there any signs or signals of distress that you look for in students to recognize if someone might need some help but are a little bit afraid to ask for it?

Janis Volker
Yes, I think there’s lots of clues. When you, as an observer, just see, you know, when someone’s going down the hallway, are they talking with other people? Are they really by themselves? You know, at lunchtime, are they with a group of friends? Are they off in a corner on their phone? Are things going on in their life that you know about, but they’re not seeking help? Have they had death in their family, repeated other kind of challenges? And then grades are a big clue.

Janis Volker
All of a sudden you see a dip, or maybe you’re not going out for the sport you always used to get involved in and things like that. So I think as long as it doesn’t have to be the school counselor that reaches out, just any adult in the building that makes connections with students. Sometimes that’s the favorite person, the person who’s doing attendance in the main office. That’s their person that they connect with, that just says good morning every single day.

Sam Demma
I had a guidance counselor who supported me in all my post-secondary applications for college and university in the United States. We were trying to figure out the eligibility requirements as a Canadian who wanted to do a Division I scholarship in the United States. And she became someone that I felt very comfortable sharing things with over my high school experience. I know that oftentimes the administrator’s office or the guidance counselor’s office can be a little bit intimidating for a young person when they walk in the door. What are some ways you help calm people down and just let them know that they’re here to be supported and it is a safe space?

Janis Volker
You know, I think I have a friendly face, right? I like to smile, I like to laugh, but my first three words are usually, when a student walks in, “You’re not in trouble.”

Janis Volker
There’s this fear of, I got called to the office and I say, you know, we do a lot of things in here. We help with your schedule. You know, we talk about college. We talk about youth apprenticeships. Like, I don’t just call people in to say there’s a problem or there’s, you know, a concern. So just trying to, you know, get to know students in different ways in the building. So to make that connection that, you know, you have to do those conversations sometimes

Janis Volker
about dress code, and then you get that reputation. She’s going to tell you you’re wearing the wrong kind of shirt today.

Sam Demma
I just remember situations when I was in school and I got called down from class at the office and I was like, oh man, this is gonna be bad. I think that’s a really good way to start the conversation just to let a student know, you’re not in trouble, we’re here to help.

Sam Demma
How do you think you build a connection with a student to the point where they really look forward to chatting with you and trust the advice or trust the guidance?

Janis Volker
I always, I mean, I’m more of an introvert to be honest. So I’m not that person that’s out there, like the super fun cheerleader, but I’m more the quiet, always supportive, always there to listen and really ask you questions about, you know, your day or your struggles. Or I like to remember certain things about a student that I can bring up the next year. You know, like I remember this when we were in seventh grade

Janis Volker
and you were talking about the careers and you said you wanted to go into welding. You know, and then I see them pursue that as they get older in high school and comment on that, you know, so that they know I’m listening, I’m aware. You know, I wish I could do that more

Janis Volker
with every single person in the building, but I think that’s really, students really, really want to be cared for. That’s, I mean, don’t we all, but it’s really important.

Sam Demma
You must have a long list of notes from all these conversations.

Janis Volker
I do, yeah, somewhere in my head, but. And at this age, sometimes they lose us, but yeah. I think the intent to remember

Sam Demma
is already a phenomenal start. It forces us to, creates a forcing function for us to pay more attention when people are talking to us, as opposed to thinking about the past or the future, which is so easy these days. Question for you, do you, or can you share a story

Sam Demma
of a student who walked into the office that was very confused, very uncertain, very overwhelmed, and after a couple years and some guidance, you just were so proud of the young person they became. And you don’t have to share their name. And the reason I ask is because

Sam Demma
there’s an educator listening to this that may be a little bit overwhelmed, or even a guidance counselor that may be a little overwhelmed, and they may have lost sight as to why they do what they do and I think that these little stories of

Sam Demma
transformation are really at the heart of why most people get into the work

Janis Volker
They do with young people. So sure. So someone comes to mind a young man who really dealt with mental health and had a lot of family struggles a lot of there was a lot of death in the family. Just you know, there was poverty. There was a little bit of everything. And he missed a lot of school.

Janis Volker
And he would have moments where he just needed to take a break from class or he wouldn’t come to school just feeling overwhelmed. And I never felt like I was making a difference because when you’re listening, I always feel in their mind, they must be thinking, I still feel just as anxious or I still have this depression like things are, I mean, things progress much slower than we all want them to.

Janis Volker
But then his senior year, he, I got a letter from him. It was a really cool activity where the seniors get to pass out letters of people that they want to thank before they graduate. And when I received that, it was one of the most meaningful things, you know, in my career. Like, wow, because I’m not I’m not in front of students as much and more in this office. I try to be out and about, but I mean, teachers, I feel, get to build those connections on a deeper level with every student than maybe I do. And it just it meant the world to me that that I was able to help and that he recognized that.

Sam Demma
I just think about all the students who have walked in your office whose lives you’ve had an impact on but who haven’t written a letter. That’s what we hope. Yeah, that’s the… It’s so funny, I did a performance last week for a high school and the audio system was not great and they swapped out four mics in the first 30 minutes.

Sam Demma
I feel like the first 30 minutes, people didn’t even hear what I was saying. And we finished the performance and we had a good number of students still rush on over and ask questions and thank us and take photos. And in my heart, I was like,

Sam Demma
I could have reached more, you know, like this was a waste, we didn’t make a difference. And this one, like the setup was not great. And then, you know, we got home and the cameraman who was with me, Matias, was like, dude, there was a couple of students that I saw who were absolutely glued and locked in despite the audio challenges. I promise you it reached some young minds. And that’s all that matters, even if they hadn’t written that letter or written that message.

Sam Demma
And just this morning, it’s been a week, I got a message from a student that was like, hey, you came to the school last week and I just wanna let you know, our friends really enjoyed it and I was like, if this ain’t the universe, just like let me know.

Sam Demma
You know, like, stop being so critical and stop judging how other people are receiving it. Just show up and do your best. Like I think that’s something that I’ve tried to carry forward with me in everything that I do. Have you ever had any moments in your work where you questioned if like, oh, is this the right work for me to be doing? And if so, how did you get through some of those

Janis Volker
Moments? Yeah, I mean, definitely the mental health piece takes a toll. And I don’t know that I’m the best at self-care. I, you know, I can tell people like, oh, you need to do this and you should be exercising and a great diet. Make sure you get out in nature. And I’ve improved in that area by developing my own hobby of photography. That became something that I felt like just relieved stress like nothing else to just be outside and at sunrise. That’s all I need really to feel better. So I think just trying to be self-aware of you need, if I ever hit that point where I’m burned out, I need to release myself because you’re not helping anyone once you reach burnout. So I guess that’s something I always think about because I have thought about, well, what would I do if I did something else?

Janis Volker
And I still think it’d be helping people. It would just be in a different scene, maybe healthcare or something, but that’s always what I want to do.

Sam Demma
Was photography something you discovered earlier in your childhood or when did that come about for you?

Janis Volker
Just being in the house and I just started observing that stay at home order we had for a few months that first spring. And so I was working from home and at the dining table and I was surrounded by windows and I thought, all these birds come to my house during the day when I’m not here. Like, wow, this is really cool. And then I just, it kind of created this, you know, interest of mine, curiosity.

Janis Volker
And then I started taking pictures and then I kept getting different cameras and then I was hooked. And then I was taking pictures every single day. So it’s, yeah.

Sam Demma
A pipe recently burst in our basement bathroom and my dad had his friend, a subcontractor named Jimmy come over to fix it. And while we were in the bathroom, I was handing him tools, he was fixing it. He started telling me about the books he had bought that morning. Did you know that you can go to a thrift store and buy a book for 50 cents? I was like, yeah, I know, I know, because I used to buy a bunch from Value Village, and he’s like, Sam, I bought seven books for $3.

Sam Demma
I was like, this is awesome, man, I’m so glad you’re excited about books. And he told me about this one book called Who Moved My Cheese by a guy named Kenneth Blanchard and he’s a business slash management author and he gave me a very high level overview of the book that there’s these two mice and one is always waiting for the cheese and the other one is always like searching for it. And that to remain curious and to keep searching for things in life is such a beautiful way to live. And you said one of the things you realized from the book is that the mice that would wait for it just live the same life over and over again. Like everything about their day was exactly the same. Whereas the mouse that was searching or curious would take different paths and try, find the cheese down different roads.

Sam Demma
And isn’t that interesting? Like COVID changed up your routine. And instead of going to work, you stayed home. As a result, you saw these beautiful birds out the window and boom, a new passion for photography came to life. I think that remaining curious is so important, not only for students, but everybody. Trying the new restaurant, taking the different route home, looking out the window and pausing for a moment. I developed some passions during the pandemic. I’m curious, like, has photography remained a part of your life?

Sam Demma
Oh, yes. Do you take a lot of pictures? Like, tell me a little bit about it

Janis Volker
Yes, I do. And the last year I haven’t as much, which is funny, that the more I tried to get into selling it, the less I actually did it. And so that was a really good lesson of, wait, you need to keep that focus on your enjoyment, like what you, what relieves the stress, which is the whole point, you know, to have something so fun. And that what I like about photography is there’s, there’s no two sunrises that are identical, like everything.

Janis Volker
There’s just no two pictures are going to look the same, just because of all the different components. And that’s the same way I love my job here is you can never predict a day in the school. And it just keeps it kind of fresh, even though it’s the same office every day, it’s very different from day to day.

Sam Demma
In your 21 year career in education, have there been any colleagues or teachers who have walked into your office and said, hey Janis, can I ask you a question? Looking for guidance.

Janis Volker
Yeah, definitely. Especially, you know, with the loss. And loss by suicide is one that when we’re growing up, we don’t really, you know, it’s something that’s not really talked about. And people don’t feel comfortable asking someone when they’ve experienced that loss. You know, people tend to avoid the really uncomfortable conversations. So when someone’s experiencing that in their family for the first time, no matter the age, you need help. You need support. So I know definitely those are times too. And just we’re struggling with, you know, just having a rough time either in school or out of school just needing someone to listen?

Sam Demma
I ask because when we were all little babies, we very openly accepted failure and recognized it as a necessary thing. How many times will a baby fail before it learns to walk? As many times as it takes and we’ll cheer them on all the way.

Sam Demma
But then at a certain age, a child starts to believe that it’s not acceptable to make a mistake. It’s not acceptable to fail. And then I think as that child grows up and becomes an adult, there’s another unconscious belief that we start to carry that we can handle things on our own because we’re now big people.

Sam Demma
And it’s like, it’s okay to reach out for support and ask for help. And I just hope that if there’s an educator listening to this right now who’s struggling, that this little portion of this conversation encourages them to reach out and ask for it.

Sam Demma
So I appreciate you sharing that.

Janis Volker
Yes, thank you.

Sam Demma
If there is an educator listening to this or even a student and they are a little overwhelmed, what words of advice or encouragement would you offer them?

Janis Volker
I think, you know, it’s kind of, everyone says this, but chunking it out like one piece at a time, one day at a time. Let’s just focus on today. You know, what can you do today to relieve that stress? You know, can I can you get some help talking to the teacher that you need some help with that you don’t understand the assignment?

Janis Volker
Is there is there another student I can get, you know, to help you? Maybe we do need to call your mom right now and have this conversation and get this off your chest or sit down with a friend. I think just whatever you can do in this moment and not worry about fixing everything between now and three months from now. Let’s just get through today.

Sam Demma
Yeah, that’s a great way to look at it. If there is an educator listening to this and they just want to ask you a question or reach out, what would be the best way for them to get in touch or connect with you?

Janis Volker
Oh, I would say, you know, my school email, right? My school phone, hopefully those are all published on our website and that’d be great.

Sam Demma
Awesome. Jan, just keep taking photos.

Janis Volker
I Will. And you know, I wanted to tell you, I did just read your book and I think it’s fantastic. And one part that really stuck out for me was when you talked about for students, the five people that you surround yourself with. I was like, wow, that I really like how, because that is so true. We’re not saying you’re all going to make bad choices, but if the group you’re with is not doing things like you said to build you up, then they’re not, they’re not helping you get to your goal. So I appreciate you for sharing those types of tips because even though I’ve been in this business 21 years, I can always still learn and find new ways to help students.

Sam Demma
Well thank you for reading the book. You can’t get it at the thrift store for 50 cents unless someone drops it off there, so please don’t. I appreciate you taking the time to be here. I appreciate you reading the book. And I appreciate all the effort and energy you place into helping people, whether it’s teachers or students.

Sam Demma
You are making a serious difference. And I look forward to meeting you here soon.

Janis Volker
Yes, thank you. Two months, we get to see you in person here.

Sam Demma
I’m counting it down. All right, Janis, keep up the great work. And we’ll talk soon. And we’ll talk soon.

Janis Volker
Thanks, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Janis Volker

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

March 20, 2025 by Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success 0

Lynne Beck – Principal at Diamond Jenness Secondary School

Lynne Beck – Principal at Diamond Jenness Secondary School
About Lynne Beck

Lynne Beck fell in love with the North, its people, and the unique lifestyle it offers when she first arrived in the Northwest Territories in 1992. She initially came to the western NWT to offer short-term swimming and canoeing programs in the Tlicho & South Slave regions. After completing her Bachelor of Education at the University of Prince Edward Island, she was drawn back to the North in the spring of 1993, where she returned to Fort Resolution to establish a long-term swimming and canoeing program and stayed on as an Adult Education teacher.

Her journey in education continued when she moved to Hay River in 1994 to work with Aurora College in Adult Education. In 1998, Lynne joined Diamond Jenness Secondary School (DJSS), where she has held various roles, including Junior and Senior High Teacher, Program Support Teacher, Vice Principal, Guidance Counsellor, Academic Advisor, and ultimately Principal since 2014.

Lynne’s dedication to nurturing the next generation is deeply influenced by her mentor, Ainsley Rose, who emphasized that everything educators do should focus on maximizing student learning and that hope means “helping other people excel.” As a mother who raised her children in Hay River, Lynne sees her legacy not only in her professional roles but in the way she has shaped and influenced her family and the students that she and her dedicated staff have the honour of educating.

Lynne’s love for the North continues to shape her work, as she is committed to making a difference in the lives of students and the community she calls home.

Connect with Lynne Beck: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

University of Prince Edward Island

Aurora College

Diamond Jenness Secondary School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam. And today we are joined by someone I met six months ago, seven months ago over a Zoom call that was supposed to be 30 minutes and lasted an hour for our joint passion for education and young people and making a difference. Today’s guest is my new friend, Lynn Beck, the principal of Diamond Genesse Secondary School. Lynn, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Lynne Beck
Well, thanks for having me.

Sam Demma
Do me a favor, take a moment to introduce yourself and share who you are and what got you into education. Oh, okay.

Lynne Beck
Well, this is, I actually started in recreation. I did waterfront programming back in, I don’t know, let me date myself here, I guess that would have been starting in around 1992, I guess, if I do my northern journey. Prior to that, I heard about the Canadian North. It had always been, with my water, my love of the ocean, always had been a dream of mine to be able to swim in the Atlantic, the Pacific, as well as the Arctic Ocean. I am very happy to say that I made that happen as coming up to the territories. What got me into education? I think partly by chance, definitely, and I’m very much, I did a sort of a work checklist, like what would make you happy one time, and it was like an inventory and what came out of it for me was that challenging renewal drives me. Like that’s my key motivator in my life. So when I look back or I reflect on things as I’m entering, this is my, I guess officially I started in 93 in Port Resolution, Moved to Hay River, or the Hatlodichay Territory, in the end of 1994. Started in adult education and then loved it, absolutely loved it, but didn’t want to not experience working with youth in an educational setting and not just a recreation setting. So, yeah, I feel like I’m all over the place. I can’t keep my head on one question for you.

Sam Demma
But your passion for education has kept you working in it over an extended period of time. It sounds like you found it a little bit by chance, a little bit by design. What keeps you working in education though? What’s the why behind your work?

Lynne Beck
The why behind my work, I would have to say, is an opportunity to accomplish something that’s more than simply what I do. To have an influence, it’s not even as much as an influence as it is to help support others to find their voice. I would have to say that I didn’t, I can honestly say I did not have a voice when I was in school. When I went through the school system, did not have a voice. I was certainly not the perfect student. Shout out to all of those poor people who had to educate me back in the day. I’ll not say where. But yeah, I’ve heard it said that from a parent’s perspective, that the most important thing we ever accomplish is not what we do, but what our children are able to do. kids, but for other kids. And sometimes it’s easier to bring those things out in other people’s children than it is your own. And having had a couple of my own, I now understand that. I believe that our circumstances determine where we start, but our philosophy, our support determines where we finish.

Sam Demma
And you’ve had some incredible stories of success come out of Diamond, the school community. When you think of some of the stories of student success, without sharing a name, is there any that come to mind, you can even change their name if it’s a story that’s a little personal, but I ask because a lot of people listening to this are in education because they want to support and serve and amplify young people. I think it may just remind someone why they got into that work in the first place if they hear about some of the impact. Yeah, it’s tough. Even

Lynne Beck
changing names is tough. So when I think about that… From a high level without a specific story. Yeah, from a high level. Okay, so I think one of the things that kept us speaking a little bit longer than our anticipated, you know, 20 minutes, half an hour, was probably a statement something like this. From 2022 to early 24, our community was evacuated full, slate, full on, community evacuation three times within a 15-month period. And despite that, we had students complete their high school requirements for graduation, in addition to being able to be accepted into Southern institutions and in a small Northern community. When students are accepted into Southern institutions with scholarships and into some amazing programs as well as are also able to go into trades opportunities and when our community, when communities get destroyed, you realize how important trades people are. They literally, without them, we wouldn’t have our homes, we wouldn’t have the infrastructure and the things that keep us warm on days like today where it’s minus 45 with the windchill and vehicles are, you know, vehicles and plumbing and all of those kinds of things still need to operate. So, guide me back to the question.

Sam Demma
When you think of some success stories as a result of education, are there any that come to mind that may inspire a listener who is really getting into this work because they want to help people. I think the fact that there was a collective graduation at the school is exceptional. I’m curious to know, like what do you think contributed to that success despite the setbacks? The team, being acknowledged,

Lynne Beck
students having an opportunity regardless of the cards that they have been dealt, whether it be as a collective, as a community, or even personally, having an opportunity or having someone notice that they have gifts, they have value, helping them find their voice. And watching that, being able to watch someone. We’re an eight to 12 school, so being able to watch, you know, that very young, often timid, a little bit scary, it’s the high school, like everyone’s afraid of high school, right? Trying to get substitute teachers to come in the building. It’s watching that progression from being that shy, timid, doesn’t know, afraid to walk across what we call our concourse and am I wearing the right clothes? Am I doing the right thing? Are people, am I going to be accepted? And then later on and as they progress, am I going to be accepted for who I am? And then before they graduate, am I going to be accepted for what I become and where I go and come back. Like it’s being part of what many people, I believe, that are in education have had the experience of having someone notice them or notice the good in them, because we’re really good at being self-critical, even at a very young age. How do you acknowledge somebody as an educator?

Sam Demma
How do you acknowledge a student in a way that affirms them? And everyone is different, so maybe it’s not a one solution fits all answer, but have you seen it done that you think other educators may be able to replicate? You notice everything and you accept everything, especially the mistakes.

Lynne Beck
We have got to in education, and that’s one thing as a team I feel we do a really good job here. You have got to move beyond the, you know, the teacher is all-knowing, the teacher is perfect, our systems are perfect. We are a human system built for human beings, and human systems and human beings have to make mistakes. We are programmed to make mistakes. Just like, or I guess equally important to that is we’re programmed to learn from our mistakes. And if we don’t learn from our mistakes, we will repeat those mistakes. And so being someone to help stop that cycle of mistake-making and open up to the possibilities that there might be a different way of doing things that works better. I mean, there’s some common speeches that some of my kids, generationally now, have had to listen to, and it’s, you know, is that working for you? Did that work? What about trying this next time? Restorative practices, actually, are the one thing for myself because in all honesty when I started in administration back in 2008 Hey, I wasn’t necessarily wanting to do that Like who really wants to be the VP of any high school? Did you know you’re the one in charge of discipline? Not like it’s a rodeo that I I didn’t have Really a whole lot of desire to do my kids were you know, baby kids back then. But anyway, that was the position I took. That was the challenge that I decided to take on at that time. And in that first year, that was probably one of the lowest points in my career. And not because of who I worked with or the kids I worked with or where I was, But it was the role that had been established that had been done that way for years. And at the end of the year, the thing that stood out for me and that I knew I had to change, that was 2007-8 actually. So it ended in the spring of 2008. I reflected and said, if I can’t do things differently, I want to I’m not doing this again. So, and the reason for that is that the thing I will never forget is a staff that I own because I did it, so I’m not gonna blame anyone else, but I had 417 and a half suspension days signed by me. So, 417 days and I was only one of two VPs at the time and the principal also did some suspensions as well. So I don’t know the collective. I only gathered those stats on myself and I said, I can’t do it. I won’t do it. We’re supposed to be about educating students, not reminding them why they don’t deserve to be here. That is not helping them find their voice. That is not…

Lynne Beck
I don’t know. There’s a whole… We could do a whole podcast on, actually, we could do months of podcast time on the de-implementation of things within the school system. We spend a lot of time talking about the latest and greatest, and there’s all kinds of books published by all kinds of wonderful companies, and it’s fantastic. But that de-implementation, in my opinion, is just as important as implementing new things. But coming back to the restorative practice piece, which also leads to one of my biggest mistakes, because when I started that process, I worked with a UCAN organization who had done a lot of work with the United Nations. They were located in Ontario. I ended up doing a student exchange and all kinds of things to try to have kids that had been experienced, you know, that type of thinking, instead of getting away from, you did, therefore you’re punished before you’re able to come back. It kind of, we started what we thought was restorative when we really looked at the term restitution is still not allowing the two parties to regain their dignity. Restorative practice allows both parties. You need to have willing participants and you need to have… It takes a lot of time. However, the investment in doing that Doing that allows people to accept the fact that we are programmed to make mistakes and learn from them.

Sam Demma
And it makes it okay. What is the big difference between a restorative practice and just restitution, as you mentioned?

Lynne Beck
Restitution focuses on the person who did the wrong to come up with a plan or a way way by which they do something and that thing doesn’t necessarily have to be with another person. It can be, I’m going to shovel the sidewalks of the school, you know, those kinds of things. It’s not about repairing the relationship and not all relationships are meant to be friends, but to do that in a way that respects both of your rights to be in this building and to be educated, maybe sometimes even in the same class, and not to be friends. Learning to be friends and to not be friends is really, really important. It’s a skill and I believe they’re equally important.

Sam Demma
I remember when I was in grade seven, I dared a friend of mine to do something inappropriate to a classmate of ours. And he did it and didn’t tell the principal that I dared him to do it and it was my idea. So he got suspended. I went home. Fortunately, my parents tried their best to instill some good values in me So I felt this inner turmoil and I sat on my bed started bawling my eyes out My dad gets home from work walks past my bedroom does a double take Is everything okay? I Tell him the truth. He’s like get in the car. We drove back to school sat in my principal’s office. Mr. O’Neill told him the truth and he and he asked me a ton of reflective questions. And then he invited the young lady, Michaela, into the office to have a conversation with both of us. And he actually ended up giving me an in-school suspension and keeping it off of my official record. And I’ll never forget that moment. And if I think back at that experience, and I think if my dad had an adverse reaction, if the principal had an extremely adverse reaction, I may have never learned the full lesson, but I did because of the way they handled it, because of the way they approached it. And it sounds very similar to what you just explained. So I didn’t really know too much about restorative practice, but Mr. O’Neill did use it with me.

Lynne Beck
That is, it’s fantastic because again you encourage kids to be human, to make mistakes. But, and it’s not about making the mistake, it’s about what you do with it when you make it. Do you own it? Are you going to learn from it? Are you going to move forward from it? If you’ve harmed someone, getting rid of that, that gross feeling in your gut when you know, like, it just doesn’t feel good doing something because even when we make mistakes and we’re the person in the wrong we need to restore our dignity and our our sense of Being in good balance being okay with ourselves. You don’t want to drag that behind you right you want to let that go and and Next time think before you dare your friend to do whatever it is. You did right like it’s um yeah I mean it it’s it’s beyond that message of you didn’t follow the rules you you don’t deserve to be here you are not good enough get out someone else is going to go fix you and then you come back to us I’m I’m I’m not going to at all diminish but I certainly can’t even begin to express the significant impact of the residential school system, of schools not only in Canada but certainly in the Northwest Territories. Their legacy is very much alive and there are many people who are still suffering the residual effects from that. And that you are not good enough message is something that I personally believe we still struggle, everyone struggles with that, but I think that that’s something because of the deliberateness of that system to essentially annihilate a culture, multi, many, many cultures, because Indigenous culture is vast and it’s very… Each one has its uniquenesses and deserves to be acknowledged individually. In the land that we sit on, it’s the Dene people, but even within that, there are many different groups of people here, where Dene FTA, Chippewyan, Cree, like we have a lot of different groups all within our community.

Sam Demma
I told you on our last conversation about some of my experiences in Kenya and how leading with this lens of curiosity rather than difference or judgment with a group of people I haven’t been exposed to in the past or met and had conversations with led to some beautiful experiences. And I am so excited to be visiting the school in May with an open mind, open heart and lots to learn. And I just want to let you know, I’m so excited about that. And it’s a privilege and I look forward to meeting you and everyone in the community. When you think about people in education who had a big impact on you, it sounds like your school journey was challenging in some regards, but are there any people in your life growing up or even after school that have had a massive impact? And if so, what did they do for you that shifted that belief about being good enough or just your own self-esteem.

Lynne Beck
I mean, there were many. And actually, it’s funny because it’s hard not to reflect and not think of those that certainly helped and those that didn’t. So I think A, being acknowledged. Being acknowledged as a human, not being ignored. Having someone, I guess, want to or make you feel as though they want you to to be there and go above and beyond to say to it to say hello good morning what are you thinking to do and later on or how was that class or it’s it’s it’s little things sometimes or hey you didn’t seem quite like yourself the other day you all right you know I just those little acknowledgments that can just make such a difference. And then collectively, there’s a lot of talk about teacher collective efficacy and that whole notion that I may not be, because I certainly am not the person that everyone can relate to or that I am able to meet the needs of or find whatever that thing is that we need to help someone move further along the line to meet their goals. But when we do it as a collective, someone is able to do that. Maybe it’s little pieces that come together that’s able to do that. Because some kids will take a little bit more than others to believe it, and that’s based on the cards that they’ve been dealt. And if we can help them, even sometimes when those cards are really tough cards to hold, if we can help them play those cards in the best possible way and have them believe that moving forward, they’re gonna be okay and that they are good enough, it’s incredible what can happen.

Lynne Beck
And we’ve seen. I remember moments in my life where

Sam Demma
believing in myself was the last thing I believed in and somebody else’s belief in me made all the difference. And I think that educators’ most important contribution, or any staff member in a school building, is not, the curriculum’s important, but it’s giving a child belief in themselves that they carry forward with them for the rest of their lives. I think that is by far the most important thing we can do. And not even just in schools, but in life in general. And my grandfather always used to say, leave things better than you found it. And if you did that, you lived a beautiful life. And I think it’s the same with people. And I got goosebumps while you were talking and sharing. And I appreciate you spending some time just talking a little bit about your educational journey and restorative practice and some of your beliefs around connecting with students and the importance of acknowledging them. And letting them know that it’s okay to make a mistake because we’re all human and not that it’s necessary Yeah Necessary yeah, right no no kid. You know watch what I don’t know we all we all get so afraid of mistakes

Lynne Beck
Yeah, but the reality is every little kid Watch them learn to walk watch them learn to talk watch them learn to do anything And then all of a sudden we get to that certain age. I don’t know what age it is and then all of a sudden So if you hide it and you pretend you didn’t do it or you try to whatever you’re just gonna do it over and over again until you accept that There’s a different or a better way and then you then if that and if you don’t get that Then unfortunately many people that that start start living with that shame and that guilt and all of those reasons why they turn to other things, sometimes it’s substances, there’s all kinds of things that people turn to, to mask that not being good enough, not being enough, being shameful, like all of those feelings that stand in the way of them developing their gift. We all have a gift. That’s one thing that I love, absolutely fell in love with in the North, is that Indigenous belief that everyone is inherently born with a gift. And it’s the duty of everyone that surrounds that child, because every child is a gift. But to surround that child, to allow those gifts to come through, right? And it’s, no one gift is more important than another. It’s a beautiful way of life. It also gives lots of hope and optimism

Lynne Beck
when you think about your own existence

Sam Demma
from that perspective. And if you’re not using it yet, you know it’s there and you’re still in that search to discover it. And I appreciate you sharing that. Do you have any parting words for an educator who may be listening to this a little bit burnt out, a little bit discouraged? Maybe there’s some challenges in their school building right now and they’re like, ah, what do I do then?

Lynne Beck
Oh, well, number one, I’ll be totally honest. Yesterday, driving back with a colleague, this was not me. We all, like challenge, we’re all being really, really challenged right now in education.
And whether we talk about cutbacks, or we talk about the things that are happening globally or you know there are there are so many reasons to kind of allow yourself to go down into that we call it a rabbit hole up here right where you get sucked into that negativity and I again by far far far from perfect as I have made so many mistakes it’s not even funny, but I’m doing my best not to repeat them. And so when I find myself going down into that rabbit hole, I remind myself, okay, you find what you look for. So if I’m telling myself I’m going to come back today and I’m going to find that negative thing or that negative person or that whatever, I’ll find it. But it’s looking for those little sunflower moments. And even sometimes, even within the people or the situations that are challenging you the most. And that’s really hard to do when it’s 45 below and really dark and da-da-da. when you really, really, really suck, just finding that outlet, whether it is a person, whether it is your dog.

Lynne Beck
My great Dane hears a lot of my problems. She doesn’t try to give me the solution. She just listens, and I do believe that we all have those answers within ourselves. We just have to get it out. I don’t know if that means getting it.

Sam Demma
Maybe that’s why we have unconditional love for our dogs, because they don’t chime in when we don’t want to hear anything.

Lynne Beck
And they don’t judge you, nothing. They keep really good people.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Lynn, this is such a lovely conversation. If someone wants to reach out and ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Lynne Beck
Probably email or phone call, because I am like, social media and I are just not, I’m just not, I don’t know, is it because I’m in my 50s? Is it because I see some challenges with social media You know up here. We talk about how kids have to Especially our indigenous students have to walk in two worlds well now with the with this whole social media Fake world where where again that that reinforcement of I’m not good enough. I just I just have a hard time Diving into that and and yeah, I don’t know I mean I get that AI is coming and I get that we need to embrace it and I get that That AI has the potential for for everyone to find their voice regardless of their level of education and it’s something that we need to To to to face head-on and to help students learn, but yeah, but in terms of reaching out best way Social social media no, but phone call or email, yes.

Sam Demma
I think that social media has attempted to make us more connected, but the result has been that we’re less connected and more glued to our phones. Email and phone call is my preferred way of communication too, so you don’t have to explain yourself at all. I will make sure that we just put your email in the show notes in case someone wants to reach out and ask a question. And until I see you in May, thank you so much, keep up the great work, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Lynne Beck

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

March 13, 2025 by Education Mental Health Principals Student Success 0

Russ Sommerfeldt – Principal at the Magrath Junior/Senior High School

Russ Sommerfeldt – Principal at the Magrath Junior/Senior High School
About Russ Sommerfeldt

Russ Sommerfeldt is a dedicated educational leader with over a decade of experience in K-12 education. He is currently the principal of Magrath Junior/Senior High School, a role he has held for 3.5 years, where he oversees a student population of 430 students from grades 7-12. Russ has a strong background in educational leadership, having previously served as Vice Principal and Athletic Director at the same school.

In addition to his administrative roles, Russ has been actively involved in athletics. He served as the assistant coach for the Senior Varsity Zeniths basketball team, helping lead them to back-to-back zone championships in 2017 and 2018. His dedication to coaching and mentoring students instilled teamwork, discipline, and resilience in the athletes he worked with.

Throughout his career, Russ has demonstrated a passion for teaching and integrating technology into classrooms. He holds a Master of Education degree from Walden University, where he focused on the effective integration of technology in K-12 education. He also earned a Bachelor of Education/Bachelor of Management from the University of Lethbridge.

Russ has taught a variety of subjects, including social studies, science, and robotics. His interest in emerging technologies and their potential to enhance learning drives his approach to education. As a principal, Russ is committed to fostering a positive learning environment, supporting student success, and helping his staff grow as educators. He is also a devoted family man, finding joy in outdoor adventures with his wife and five children.

Connect with Russ Sommerfeldt: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Magrath Junior/Senior High School

Walden University

University of Lethbridge

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Russ Sommerfeld. Russ is the principal of McGrath High School. We met a few months ago. I was telling him about a marathon that I was going to be running in October, and we have since ran the marathon.

Sam Demma
I’m still alive. The legs are still moving. He gave me some great advice because he’s run a few of them with his brother, from what I remember from our previous conversation. He’s passionate about education, passionate about athletics.

Sam Demma
Russ, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show here today.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Hey Sam, I really appreciate it, it’s an honor.

Sam Demma
Tell us a little bit about how you got involved in education.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, so I actually, my father was an educator, so I followed in his footsteps. He started out as just an ordinary classroom teacher. He went on to become a guidance counselor. And then from there, worked his way into administration as a vice principal, and then eventually

Russ Sommerfeldt
as he ended his career as a superintendent. And so I’ve always looked up to my father. He’s been a role model in my life and he definitely inspired me to go into this field of work and showed me how rewarding it can be to help kids and to help them succeed.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And one of the greatest things he ever taught me was the greatest gift that you can give a kid is confidence and building their confidence. And so I’ve tried to keep that as a motto and remember that throughout my career thus far. Because I think it is key, the world in so many ways tries to pull people down and diminish who they are and what they can do. And we play an important role as educators to help kids believe in themselves and inspire them to think that, you know what, despite all that noise out there in the world, they really can do great things.

Sam Demma
My teacher, Mr. Loudfoot, gave me belief in myself and I still think it’s one of the greatest gifts he ever gave me as a student in this classroom. Now I also was given that gift from my parents, but I more so expected my parents to give it to me and when the teacher was just as certain that I should believe in myself as my own parents were it just, it took my belief in myself to a whole another level because I expected it from them,

Sam Demma
but didn’t really expect it from him. So I couldn’t agree more as a young person who’s closely removed from school and can still reflect on that experience pretty clearly. I think you’re so right. Did your dad also run marathons or are you and your brother the two athletic beasts in the family?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, you know, my dad isn’t necessarily a runner. My brother was the one that got into it and then he inspired me. It was actually just coming off of COVID, tail end of COVID. I happen to be visiting him. He lives down in Arizona and he said, you know what, I’m running this marathon, why don’t you start training? You got time, we’ve got six months till this thing happens. And so he says, there’s this app you can download and we can communicate, you know, you’re in Alberta, Canada, I’m in Phoenix, Arizona, and we can train together. And so I thought, oh, that does not sound like fun at all. But there was something about that conversation that day that kept coming back to me.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And so I did, I said, let’s do it. And the rest is history, I guess, in terms of me becoming a runner. Because I was not a distance runner in school growing up. Track and field, I would do the 100 meter and nothing longer. So I didn’t ever see myself as a distance runner, but now I would say that I am, and I really enjoy it.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Especially with a leadership position at the school, and I think all leaders could say the same thing. There’s a lot of things that happen in a day. There’s a lot of stresses and a lot of things on your mind and it’s a great outlet to let go of some of those things and to really take care of yourself for your own wellness.

Sam Demma
When you think about your journey through education, sounds like you were inspired by your dad and loved the idea of making a positive contribution in the lives of young kids. What was your first role? And take us through that journey that brought you to McGrath today.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, so it’s funny enough, but when I went through university, my last teaching internship before I became a full-fledged teacher was actually at McGrath High School. Oh, no way.

Russ Sommerfeldt
I just had an awesome experience. I loved the school so much. And so basically, after I graduated, they didn’t have a position right at that very moment, but I went and taught at the high school I attended when I was in high school for a semester, and I enjoyed every minute of that, but the teacher that I was filling in for was coming back. And then later on, six months later, four months later, they had an opening at McGrath and I was like, you gotta be kidding me, this is awesome. Like I can go back to the place that I love. And so I started out teaching social studies, science, and I started out as a classroom teacher here. Loved every minute of it. Got involved with athletics through coaching, predominantly coached some basketball. Started off at the grade eight level in junior high. Just tried to figure out where can I help out because a school does not run without a lot of volunteer hours from teachers and community members. And so I got to know a lot of people through that process. It’s also interesting how you get to know kids outside of the classroom too.

Russ Sommerfeldt
When you go on maybe a trip with them or at a practice, that influence that you can have have goes much deeper when you see them, and when they see you in a different light as well, not just someone talking at the front of a classroom or trying to teach them something, but the relationship that’s forged is way deeper when you can work with them in a few different ways. And so yeah, I mean, I fell in love with McGrath and then eventually some things opened up in terms of people retire and so on and so forth. And there was other opportunities that presented themselves as well at the school.

Sam Demma
When you think about folks who have helped you in your professional development as an educator, I mean, it does again sound like your dad played a really big role, but is there anyone else that’s top of mind that you think this person really changed the way I thought about certain things?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, there’s lots of people. And I feel like we live in a great… I feel like I live in a great area of Alberta where there’s a lot of really good educators. And so just the people that I would brush shoulders with in my…we used to call them a professional learning community. And we would meet every quarter or so, and just rubbing elbows with those teachers who were veteran teachers that would show me, hey, have you ever tried this? Or what about this? And those people really shaped the way I thought. On a professional level, like some of the books that I’ve read, I would say Todd Whitaker, his work is incredible, What Great Teachers Do Differently. His work really resonates with me a lot. And he actually came to our school division to start the year off this year, so we heard him speak to us in person, which was great. So I think his work’s been instrumental in kind of my thought process and some of the things that I’ve implemented in my own practices. Throughout my master’s I read a few books by a guy named Will Richardson who he was he’s a very innovative thinker. He talks a lot about how the traditional model of school is broken and how we need to change it and so that having that in my mind has has made me take some risks and try new things and try to figure out how we can better prepare these kids for the future because essentially the school system has been the same since the industrial era, right? It’s almost like the factory model of we’re mass producing kids, you know, and it doesn’t necessarily work.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And so we have to be creative in our thinking and in the way we do things in education now.

Sam Demma
When you think of students within the schools you’ve served, is there any that come to mind that were really struggling and over a period of time made some significant improvements in their own self-confidence? And if it’s a serious story, you could definitely change their name. The reason I bring it up is because a lot of educators don’t get physically thanked by the students themselves because maybe they don’t have the confidence to even walk up to the teacher and tell them how big of a difference they’ve made in their confidence, or they realize it 10 years after they graduate and have no way of getting back in touch with that individual. And so there’s an educator definitely listening to this right now who may be doubting the impact they’re creating and hearing about a story of how education or a teacher or even yourself had impacted a student might remind them what’s possible.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, and I probably don’t have any monumental stories right off the top of my head, but I’m reminded of one even this year. I had a student come into my office, has since graduated, and this particular student didn’t really like to attend school all that much. Attitude-wise, they were kind of, eh, I don’t know if school is important. But when they came back to my office this year, at the start of the school year, as a 23 or 24-year-old person that’s in university, they had a huge smile on their face, a whole bunch of energy around what they were doing. And they were currently in university, and they thanked me. And I was like, well, I don’t remember doing anything out of the ordinary other than being here every day. But I think the impact that we have on kids is way more than we know.

Russ Sommerfeldt
Even if it’s nothing specific that we did, it’s just believing in them each and every day and never giving up on them. And so, yeah, that comes to mind as one. But there’s a lot of kids out there, too, that, you know, some, they don’t have the support at home necessarily. And so they come, they walk through the doors here at school and the adults here are really the only champion that they have or so that they feel. And I’m sure that their parents are rooting for them as much as they can, but whatever, for whatever reason, the relationship isn’t quite what they would like it to be. And so we play a huge role that way too, just to, you know, listen to kids, be there for them and keep cheerleading.

Sam Demma
I think it’s so important too. There’s some situations where kids are coming to school looking specifically for learning and connections with other kids. And there’s other kids who are coming to school looking for a safe space and looking for food to eat and looking for a totally different set of needs than what other young people might be looking for. And it’s important to recognize that every kid is carrying a different backpack, that they all have different, they all have those different challenges.

Sam Demma
I think that education is one of the most important ways to shape the future, and you’re doing amazing work, and everyone at McGrath is as well, but it comes with its own set of challenges also. What do you think some of the challenges are in education these days?

Sam Demma
Well, I think I’ve noticed that student engagement is a really tough thing.

Russ Sommerfeldt
You know, kids, when they go home, they can learn what they want to learn instantaneously on YouTube or on TikTok. And it is so engaging that when they come to school and maybe the method or the model of that learning is different, it’s hard for them to really engage with what it is. And so I think just helping kids understand the value of what they’re learning and trying to make it applicable to their real life, because honestly, as a part, like with the work that Will Richardson did that I referenced a little bit earlier, a lot of people just learn on demand now. It’s not that they feel like they have to read a whole textbook to learn. No, they can, you can get specific and really good information on specific things that you’re interested in. So I think just helping kids see the importance of what we do here every day. And even when it’s not so engaging or interesting, I think the bigger lesson is learning how to stick to something, even when it’s really hard. Similar to what probably you learned and what I learned through this process of training for a marathon. There’s days when you think, man, this is tough, this is hard, why am I doing this?

Russ Sommerfeldt
And as you stick to that process, the end result is beautiful. And I think a lot of times kids won’t see that until after they’re gone. And that’s why we don’t always see the impact that we have as educators.

Sam Demma
And there’s also opportunities. Like there’s definitely challenges and I think being aware of them is important so we can think about ways to shift certain things, which it sounds like you are, which is amazing. What do you think some of the opportunities are each day in the school system right now? Oh, there’s so many.

Russ Sommerfeldt
I think that a school is kind of a mini society, so to speak, or a mini community. And so, you know, we have a really excellent extracurricular program, athletics program, and on any given night almost at our school, because we’re a seven through 12, we have 10 athletic teams that are playing, whether they’re playing here or elsewhere. But here in the school specifically, there’s a lot of opportunities for kids to get involved and to learn real life skills. So some of them, I know we have an entrepreneur class where kids are making yogurt, frozen yogurt for the game.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And then we sell them at the game to help support these programs that we offer. So they’re actually learning that skill. They could also come work in the concession where they’re taking people’s orders, communicating with them that way, giving that information to the people in prep and getting food out the door so that people can watch the game. We also try to make it a kind of a big production.

Russ Sommerfeldt
So I got kids that are working with our streaming and they’re learning the tech side of things. They’re learning how to do instant replays of a whole broadcast thing and that type of thing. from the behind the scenes stuff of people getting, you know, when we run a tournament, they’re building these, we call them either swag bags or a little care package for each of the players that come. So it’s pretty cool to see all the goings-ons in the building, and that’s just one example. Like, we have the same thing with drama and band and fine arts, where kids can get involved and do a lot of good that’s not academic necessarily, but as a hidden curriculum, it’s very valuable.

Sam Demma
When you think of your community, your mini society of this school, is there anything that you think is very unique or that your school does that may be very unique from other schools? And maybe you don’t even think it’s unique, but for a school in a different province, it could totally be something they’ve never tried or done before.

Sam Demma
Does anything come to mind that you think would be worth sharing?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, you bet. So we’re unique in the sense that we have kindergarten through grade 12 basically under the same roof. Wow. The elementary school, so K to six, is in its own part of the building.

Russ Sommerfeldt
It has its own administration, it’s its own school, so it’s run separately. And then over in my end, we have seven through 12. But from the moment these kids enter kindergarten, because of the proximity and because we’re such a small community and people know each other so well, they feel a part of the high school. They feel a part of this mini society right from the get go. Specifically with the extracurricular activities because the kindergarten kids, the grade one kids, they get read to by the senior varsity basketball players on occasion. They’re invited to our pep rallies. So they learn the cheers, they’re wearing their blue and gold, they’re decked out. We’ve even had alumni make trading cards of the kids and these little kids will be getting autographs of these players after the game. So it’s unique in a sense that high school sports is much bigger in a really small town than maybe even some of the larger centers because everybody in the whole community is behind it. And it’s really cool. At any one of our games, there may be a thousand people at these games.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And I’ve been to other high schools across the province and even in other provinces, and the crowds just aren’t that big. You’ll get the parents and maybe some family members, but people that aren’t even related to a single player on the court, they’re here because it’s the main event. There’s nothing else going on in the town, so they come, they support. And so in that sense, I think we’re unique, that the school community is basically the hub of the entire town.

Russ Sommerfeldt
And we do a lot of things here at school that spill over into other aspects of the community, which is really cool.

Sam Demma
More rural schools, more rural schools. That’s cool. I love that. Did you grow up in the same area as the school? Or are you from elsewhere?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, so I grew up in Carsten, which is about 30 minutes southwest of here, very similar culture, where small town and community involvement’s key. And so, yeah, it feels like home, even though it’s half hour away, right? So it’s very similar.

Sam Demma
A lot of other schools struggle to engage their parent communities. It sounds like the parents of these kids show up for things. Aside from the fact that there may be nothing else going on, do you think there’s other things that contribute to people in the community getting really involved in their kids’ school activities?

Russ Sommerfeldt
You know, I think a big part of it is building that relationship with parents and just asking them. I think we forget sometimes that people are willing if they are clear on what it is that is needed. And so figuring out a system and just turning it over sometimes to the parents. And you got to be a little bit careful, but with some planning and with some preparation, they can do a lot better job than I ever could. So I’m the type of leader who wants to engage and bring in as many other people as possible because me, myself could do it one way, but there’s a lot of other people that have lots of great ideas, probably much better than mine. And so I like to bring all those ideas to the table to make it the best possible experience for kids.

Sam Demma
And we only have two hands too, right? So every person brings two more and a brain. So you put it all together, you can move mountains and do some cool stuff. This has been a lovely conversation, the time’s flown by. I just wanna say thank you so much for investing the time into the show to talk a little bit about your educational journey and some of your beliefs around education. If there’s an educator listening to this and wants to reach out to you or get your training plan for running their first marathon, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Russ Sommerfeldt
Yeah, definitely send me an email. Russ.Sommerfeld at westwind.ab.ca. I’m sure you can link that into the notes. I won’t give my cell phone number out over a podcast, but my email for sure, or our school website, mcgrathhigh.ca, and they can find me there as well. Happy to talk to anybody who’s interested.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Russ, thank you so much for taking the time. Keep running, keep up the great work, and we’ll talk to you soon. and we’ll talk to you soon. Hey, thanks a bunch.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Russ Sommerfeldt

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

March 6, 2025 by Athletic Director Education Principals School Administration Student Leadership Student Success 0

Sean Kenney – Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education

Sean Kenney – Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education
About Sean Kenney

Sean Kenney is the director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education and the Coordinator for Community Learning, International Services, and Family of School Supervisor. Previous to his current role, he has been a dynamic classroom teacher, vice principal, and principal spanning 30 years in Manitoba, Quebec, and his home province of Nova Scotia. Although desperately missing being in a school each day working with students, he is broadening his impact within his regional of 6200 students.

Sean has always engaged students in thoughtful and meaningful ways while having a sharp focus on equitable practices that are safe and inclusive of everyone in his school community. Each year he welcomes over 250 students from at least 20 different countries into his schools and communities while serving as their custodian and ensuring that they have a rich Nova Scotian experience. 

Connect with Sean Kenney: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Nova Scotia International Student Program

Tri-County Regional Centre for Education

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by Sean Kenney, the Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Center for Education and the Coordinator for Community Living of International Services and Family of School Supervisor. But he’s been in education for a long time in Manitoba, in Quebec, in Nova Scotia. He works with international students from all over the world and I’m so grateful to have him on the show here today. Sean, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

Sean Kenney
Thanks so much, Sam. I appreciate the invitation.

Sam Demma
Where in the world are you tuning in from today?

Sean Kenney
That’s a great question. Most of my work is centered in Southwest Nova Scotia, so my office is in Yarmouth, one of the small towns in the southwest portion of the province. That’s where I am right now. However, some of my work takes me different areas of the world, including different parts of Canada where I first met you at the CAPSI conference in Niagara Falls last spring. Yeah, recently for work purposes I’ve traveled to Thailand and Vietnam for a couple weeks meeting with prospective students, partners, and agencies through our international student program.

Sam Demma
When young people, aspiring educators, think about education, most of the time they think about teaching in the classroom or being a principal of a local school, not traveling the globe recruiting students to come to Canada and to provide them with a home away from home and a life-changing experience. At what point in your own educational journey did you uncover international education, and how did you get involved?

Sean Kenney
That’s a great question. Many moons ago, you alluded to the fact that I’ve been in different provinces. And I began education, oh, 34, 35 years ago now, when I went to teacher’s college. So it’s been some time.

Sean Kenney
And at that time, I was really passionate thinking, okay, I’m going to be the, you know, a great math teacher. And that was my singular focus. And truth be told, I’ve taught a number of other subjects other than math. Over those years, you know, I’ve held different roles as a teacher from grade seven through 12. There’s been math, there’s been science, industrial arts, leadership, outdoor ed, you name it. You kind of try some different things. But then being a teacher and vice principal, I was first acquainted with the International Student Program in that regard at one of my previous schools in Shelburne County, Barrington High. We’d have a number of students come in and that was my first introduction to that. So over the course of the last 15 to 20 years, I’ve had kind of an arm’s length support of the International Student Program. During that time, I’ve got to meet a number of great students from all over the world. And then, as we started to develop programs in schools where we’re able to create a bigger network of host families, we were able to welcome more students.

Sean Kenney
And in doing so, we were able to put in a number of different programs in place to help support those students. It was a few years ago, the opportunity came up where the previous director for the International Student Program in our region took a job change. And I thought, okay, I’ve been a leader from a number of different schools and I’ve always felt for me personally, kind of four to six years is that kind of window where it’s important for the organization and the person to seek new opportunities and change. It’s good for everyone that we continue growth through taking new opportunities. So I said, okay, let me give this a try. And Sam, my eyes were blown wide open because certainly from this lens and the supporting role that I’ve got, I didn’t realize all that was involved in the International Student Program, having been a teacher, vice principal, and principal. Certainly, it’s been very alarming and enlightening to see all that’s involved in welcoming all these students in our program. We’ve actually got one of the most esteemed public school, high school programs in Canada.

Sean Kenney
It’s certainly well respected across the country. We’ve welcomed over 25,000 students across 70 different schools in Nova Scotia. In my particular region, we normally bring 200-250 students. Some will be here for as short as four weeks and some will be here for the full year. Some actually begin in grade 7, 8, 9 and they’ll continue for three or four years to graduate. It’s really exciting, the opportunities. And certainly, as you get to travel and meet different agents and partners, you get to see how my starting role 35 years ago as a math teacher has certainly changed greatly. However, not losing sight of the fact that we’re providing great educational experiences, not just for our Canadian students, but also welcoming students from so many different countries.

Sam Demma
For an educator listening to this, who’s aspiring to get into a school, but has never thought or considered about international education as a way they could provide an exceptional experience for young people and also make a contribution in slightly different ways.

Sam Demma
What are some of those services you provide or things you do on a day-to-day basis to paint a little bit of a picture for the role?

Sean Kenney
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I see my role right now within our region as two, you know, it’s, it’s, there’s many different things on my platter of responsibilities. And one of them is really specific around our 150 international students that are part of our program. a more rural way of life. And then there’s a lot of people coming from other countries and immigrating and moving into our communities. So all of our teachers and staff in all schools

Sean Kenney
have been forced to think of things in a different way, as far as a culturally responsive approach in welcoming all of our students and all of the different cultures in our schools. Previous to COVID, quite honestly, a number of our schools would have had limited experience to people from other countries unless it was through the International Student Program. In our region and across the province, that has traditionally been from grades 7 to 12. So a lot of our elementary schools didn’t have those opportunities. So when we think of those best teaching practices and school practices and creating welcoming schools, they were often limited to junior and senior highs. eyes. So now within our region and across the province, and I would guess across the whole country, this has become a wider focus for every educator.

Sam Demma
When you think about your journey in education and international education, who comes to mind as mentors or folks that have helped you and supported you in your professional and personal development? Yeah, that’s a great question. So, the founder and forefather of the Nova Scotia International Student Program was by the name of Paul Millman, and he’s recently moved on over the last couple of years to take on new ventures. So, certainly I was introduced to him while I was still a vice principal about 12 years ago at a conference in a little town named DeBert. And at that time, they brought together a number of administrators. So watching him and his passion from a distance has certainly been incredible.

Sean Kenney
As I’ve become part of the program, I get to see his far-reaching impact and passion and how he’s instilled that on every single… People are living and breathing the program. I think sometimes we take for granted that, you know, a regular classroom, it ends at three o’clock. Well, the International Student Program, it’s a 24-7, 365-day gig where we’ve got the responsibility for that incredible school experience, but as well, we run our own homestead. So it’s creating a network of quality families that welcome students in for this intercultural exchange that’s so rich.

Sean Kenney
So within our program, I’ve been mentored by a friend and colleague, someone actually oddly enough I knew back at Teachers College 35 years ago, and he and I have had similar kind of lived experiences professionally where, you know, he left Teachers College in the mid-90s, became a teacher, moved, you know, different opportunities. Sometimes opportunities present themselves to you by suggestion. People are thinking, hey, there’s an opportunity here, and I think you might be able to fill this need right now. And I think that’s often how people might step into a leadership role in education, especially when it comes to that of a vice principal. I don’t know that many people go in education thinking, wow, one day I’d love to be a VP or a principal. It kind of happens out of curiosity and just different lived experience where you keep building on different things. So he’s been a wonderful mentor as well as our entire program with this particular journey over the past two and a half years.

Sam Demma
What did those folks do for you that had the greatest impact?

Sean Kenney
I think when you bring varied experiences to a new role and set of responsibilities, it’s around validating some of those curiosities, thinking, okay, is this kind of what’s expected? Am I heading in the right direction. He would provide a number of suggestions to me and he was always there for support when I needed.

Sean Kenney
There’s a lot of text messages and emails, hey, in this situation, it’s new for me but probably not for you. This is what I’m kind of talking through those. Because when you’re dealing with, you know, when you’re dealing with humans, man, there can be some high emotions, big emotions, and you definitely want to make sure you get things right. There’s no playbook that’s black and white. We live in the gray when we’re supporting our kids and families, right?

Sam Demma
I think the unique thing about having a mentor who’s been working in a similar field for such a long period of time, is like you mentioned, it may be new for you, but for them, it could be something they’ve experienced dozens or hundreds of times. And there’s a phenomenal book by a guy named Ray Dalio called Principles, and he talked about a mentor that he had in the book, and he would bring him his challenges, and the mentor would say, oh, it’s just another one of those.

Sam Demma
He categorized a lot of his challenges into buckets of things that his mentor had experienced in the past. And even if they haven’t experienced it based on the breadth of their whole experience, they can probably help make a good suggestion even if they’ve never faced something like that before themselves. You said that international education is 24-7.

Sam Demma
It doesn’t end at three o’clock. I think it takes a pretty special human to dedicate their life to supporting young people From 8 a.m. To 3 p.m. Let alone in a position where it seems like it never stops Did you have any experiences growing up that? Inspired you to want to help kids and work with young people or why did you choose this work? Well, it was the fame and fortune. I was looking for I think it’s a calling. People who want to help and be in a helping field, they find their way there. So for me, I think of a couple of pivotal moments and actually they both happened for me as a student when I moved schools. My family moved schools when I was in grade six. So in Nova Scotia, many of our elementary schools go until grade six. So it was kind of a big deal being the oldest of three boys. We ended up moving to this small rural community and I was like, wow, this is really different. Um, and the teacher there kind of, she saw things in me that I didn’t really see in myself at that time. Right. And then it happened again in grade 10 when I arrived at the high school, first year in a new school and kind of had a similar experience. So I thought, okay, these people, um, are suggesting that I might be a great in school one day. And for me, I found math easier than many of the other subjects.

Sean Kenney
So, between that and enjoying sports, certainly enjoyed sports playing as a child when I realized I was far from a pro ball player, I was never going to be a professional athlete. Later in high school, I can’t remember if it was, must have been the summer of grade 11, a friend, me and one of my friends, we ended up coaching a minor ball team and working with the little league kids at that time would have been five, six, seven. It was fun.

Sean Kenney
And I think that kind of was the hook. It’s one of those things that if you enjoy working with kids, you know, just one of those things. With working with kids, every day there’s something new. So you might get some of those moments, but there’s so many things like, wow, that’s different.

Sean Kenney
So I think always being curious, willing to learn and open to new opportunities, that’s what I love about working with kids. There’s never a dull moment. That’s in transitioning to this role, it’s a little different, right?

Sean Kenney
Having been a principal, I was there every day with 575 students every day. So you get to interact all day long, you know, and this one here, working more regionally based, it’s a little different as far as your impact and influence because you don’t get to see every student every day, which is something I had desperately missed, but I’m adjusting to, right? Finding other ways to kind of get to see them.

Sam Demma
There’s unique opportunities in every field, in every, I believe, in every vocation, every job. I think one of the unique opportunities in the work you’re doing now is you’re creating homes away from a home for lots of kids who these experiences could be life changing and and when you think about the students that you’ve served over the years in international education, is there a story of a student that might come to mind right now who was really nervous and shy and maybe even struggling at the start of their international experience but by the end, we’re emailing you, mister Kenny, you’re not gonna believe this. Yeah. And if there isn’t a specific email, that’s okay too. But if there’s a story, I would love for you to share it because there’s an educator listening to this that’s doubting if they’re making a difference. And I think it’s stories like that that really remind them to keep showing up.

Sean Kenney
Yeah, so having been a principal for a number of years, right? And I’ve had the luxury of working in grade primary to 12 schools. And I always shared with my staff, listen, different grade levels have different levels of gratitude.

Sean Kenney
Some are time delayed. Some are like that email that you’re going to delay send. So in elementary schools, gratitude is daily. You get hugs and kisses and snot on your pants from the hugs, right? So you feel that love every day. In high school, those major milestones, the proms, the graduations, when kids are leaving, you get a lot more gratitude. Middle school, it’s delayed, right? So some, you feel that love, right? And you know that you’re making that difference, but for some, they come back. So from my experiences, I’ve had a number of students that are like, man, I just want to talk to you. I really appreciate that you never gave up on me, even though I didn’t deserve that unconditional positive regard or love that you were given. Because sometimes at that time when I was in grade 7 or 8, I was 13, 14, I wasn’t nice. I wasn’t nice to you. I wasn’t nice to other people around me. I just wasn’t nice to myself. So it’s kind of keeping that in mind. With that said, it’s not lost on me the great responsibility that we have in making sure when our students come as directors, we all serve as the legal custodian. So I take them on as my kids. And one of the great responsibilities that I see is taking care of that homestay part, making sure that we vet the families in an appropriate way so that I’m convinced that if my kids were in another country, my own children, I’ve got two that are 17 and 19, am I comfortable with my kids staying in that home thousands of kilometers away? So we’ve been investing time and energy in making sure that all of our homestay families have a common vision of what it is to take care of our kids while they’re here in Nova Scotia. And unfortunately at times I’ve had to make tough decisions where we’ve had to part ways on that hosting relationship. And that’s really difficult to do because parents are sending their kids to Nova Scotia or Canada hoping for a certain experience and many of them will share. And the great thing is, Sam, I’m Sean now, I’m not Mr. Kenny, which is a great thing.

Sean Kenney
In the international community, I don’t have to be Mr. Kenney. I love it. So they come and they say, Sean, this is just like the Hollywood movies, right? When they think of high school, what’s high school like? Well, North American high school is very different than it is in Turkey or Germany or, you know, pick a country, Japan, South Korea, any of the countries that we host from. So, yeah, it’s that responsibility. And we do a great job making sure we transition the students in. So we have a big team of people, whether it’s our home state coordinators, our program managers, we have school ambassadors, which is a wonderful program. They’re Canadian students in every one of our high schools that are trained to help welcome students as they arrive and help them transition through all of their firsts that happen during their stay.

Sean Kenney
So yeah, there’s a lot of stories where kids come, they’re really scared, sometimes they experience culture shock. I’ve really enjoyed my travels with students when I pick them up from the airport and help kind of relieve their concerns. It’s a three, three and a half hour drive from Halifax Airport down to Yeremeth.

Sean Kenney
So if I’ve got three or four students brand new to Canada, we have nice chats coming back and forth.

Sam Demma
When you think about building relationships and having a positive impact in the life of a young person, have you gotten any advice that you think would be worth sharing with some of the educators that are listening right now that might just be starting to work with youth and wanna make a big difference. Like what advice would you share with them that you’ve received at points in your career that you thought were helpful?

Sean Kenney
There’s a lot of different ones. So one of my mentors as a school-based administrator, he was my principal while I was his vice principal for seven years together. And one of the piece of advice he shared was, no matter what the situation is, when you’re speaking with a child, speak to them as if their parents are sitting in the room with you. Show them the same care and concern you would. You can’t be two different people, and that’s really stuck with me.

Sean Kenney
And some of our CRP work in our region, Shrocky Holly, he talks about VABing, which is the validating, affirming, building, bridging. So, I mean, that’s all, it’s about outrageous love, right? So, that’s kind of the part that keeps us going as educators and relationships are everything.

Sean Kenney
Programs, they come and go. Those are kind of the what’s. The why’s and who’s are kind of that vision of purpose. What is your purpose? And who, who’s it all about? Getting to know those kids, getting to know your staff, getting to know your families and having relationships. Certainly there are some time obstacles and barriers, but that is by far the most important thing. And certainly when I think of some of the work that you share in your presentation, it’s around kind of getting to know those kids so that you can help them raise their ceiling of expectations or goals, dreaming big, think big, and then go for it daily with small, reasonable steps. And that’s certainly what resonated with me in the work that we do. And certainly, Sam, I’m looking forward to bringing you to the East Coast here, hopefully in the next school year, so that we can get you to help bring your message, because certainly I think it would resonate with all of our students.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it, Sean. And I’m so grateful that we were able to share some time on the podcast. I know there’s a lot of educators listening to this who have not even considered or thought about international education as a way they can make a difference and express their own passions for working with young people. I wish you nothing but success in all of your upcoming travels. And if there is someone listening to this that wants to touch base with you, reach out, share some delayed gratitude or ask a question, what would be the best way for them to touch base with you?

Sean Kenney
Yeah, so I’m sure on the bio of this podcast, you’ll share that, but my email is sean.kenney at tcrce.ca. Certainly they can look me up on LinkedIn, Facebook, or even Instagram, certainly, even WhatsApp. So I’m certainly willing and able to help answer any questions or even just chat with anyone who’s kind of curious about this because certainly I didn’t think that my educational journey that started 35 years ago would end up in international education right now. And it’s certainly a very wide field and certainly a niche part of public schools.

Sam Demma
Well, one thing, if you’re listening to this right now and you do want to reach out, just don’t call him Mr. Kenney, refer to him as Sean or else you’ll not get a response.

Sean Kenney
That’s definitely one of the top 20 great things about this new role.

Sam Demma
Sean, thank you so much for taking the time. This is awesome. Keep up the great work.

Sean Kenney
Appreciate it, Sam. Thanks.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sean Kenney

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 27, 2025 by Director of Education Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success 0

Betty Norton, M. Ed. – Chief Academic Officer at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School

Betty Norton, M. Ed. – Chief Academic Officer at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School
About Betty Norton

For almost 30 years, Betty Norton worked for Broward County Public Schools where she taught middle school students and later concentrated on special populations included Gifted and Exceptions Student Education (ESE) classrooms and Title I schools.  

Motivated to bring even more value to the students of Broward County, Ms. Norton pursued and earned a National Board Certification in 2004 and a master’s degree in Curriculum and Instruction in 2007, while concurrently dedicating her time to increase academic achievement in the district’s middle and high schools. She worked at the district level from 2005-2016. She worked for Core Curriculum as a curriculum developer and then in 2009 transferred to the dept of Accountability. In both cases, she was assigned to low-performing schools (D-F schools) and led a team of district support to evaluate, design, and implement school improvement plans and met with great success. Norton also provided training for faculty and administration. 

Keen to learn more about virtual and remote education, Ms. Norton also spent seven-and-a-half years working for both Broward Virtual School and Florida Virtual School before embarking on her career at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School, where she served as Head of Schools for Coral Springs. When Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School opened in 2020, Norton was tapped to lead the global virtual campus and since then, has become a go-to expert in online, remote and virtual education, having been featured in Thrive Global and numerous family and lifestyle blogs.  

Ms. Norton earned a Bachelor of Science in Secondary English Education from the University of Central Florida and a Master of Science from Capella University. 

Connect with Betty Norton: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Broward County Public Schools
Broward Virtual School
Florida Virtual School
Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we have a very special guest on the show. Betty Norton is a veteran in education, almost 30 years. She is currently sitting in her office in beautiful Florida where it is sunny outside and I’m sitting in my office where it is minus five and snowing.

Sam Demma
Betty has an unwavering passion for education, personalizing the experience to individuals to meet their needs and help them excel and exceed. Betty, thank you so much for coming on the show here today. Thank you so much.

Betty Norton
It’s my pleasure.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about the work that you’re doing in education today and what got you into education in the first place.

Betty Norton
Okay, well, those are two very big questions. Do we have time for both? What I do in education these days. So I actually am the chief academic officer for several private schools that we have here in South Florida.

Betty Norton
We have six physical campuses and one virtual school that we use to kind of overlay across all of our campuses. We have students all around the world who attend our virtual school. And we also have students who are visiting the state of Florida for their sports and maybe attending any one of our XSEED Prep campuses.

Betty Norton
So that’s what I do now. I do oversee them. And my focus is doing whatever we can to make those schools better, to be able to provide students with a personalized learning education that really fulfills their needs and helps them achieve their goals. And the biggest reason why I got into education

Betty Norton
is because I have a big passion for it. I know that everyone says that, but I genuinely enjoy working with young people, especially middle schoolers and high schoolers. I graduated college going into business and then very quickly switched gears and went straight into education and I’ve never looked back.

Sam Demma
You mentioned the importance of creating personalized educational experiences and journeys for students. What does that look like for your schools? Great question.

Betty Norton
So at our schools, we have, let’s say for example, our schools open from 8 to 3.30 every day. And we personalize our students’ schedules all the way down to when they will be on campus. So a traditional campus will have students coming in at 8, leaving at 3.30, bells will ring and they will switch from class to class. They only have a certain amount of time with

Betty Norton
each of their teachers and let’s say for example if you’re waiting to get to number 17 because that’s the only question you really had a problem with, it’s really difficult when everyone else kind of gets a turn and perhaps the bell rings before you even get your shot at it. So at XSEED our students have flexible schedules. Some of our students come maybe three or four times a week. They may be on campus for about five to six hours, and they get to work with their teachers individually,

Betty Norton
and they also get to work with their teachers in small group sessions. So one of the ways that we customize our curriculum for them is meeting them where they are and then being able to create a support system for any foundational skills that they may be lacking. We help remediate those throughout the day. And then while they’re working with their teachers and working in small groups,

Betty Norton
they’re accelerating and moving forward. So we have the ability to have some students who may take a little bit longer to earn their high school diploma and say they might go an extra semester. But the opposite is also true.

Betty Norton
We have plenty of students who wish to graduate early because they wanna pursue their careers or the ideas and dreams that they’ve been planning. So sometimes we have students who graduate early.

Sam Demma
And recently you opened a few more schools. Tell me a little bit about it.

Betty Norton
Yes, that was quite the endeavor. We opened three new campuses this August and they are spread out throughout South Florida. We have a new campus in Boca, one in Palm Beach Gardens and one in Fort Lauderdale. All of them were quite exciting and quite challenging

Betty Norton
to open, trying to do three things at once is always a challenge. But we are hoping to tap into those communities and again, allow those students the opportunity to get the education personalized and have those needs met. Our schools tend to be rather small. Our schools are less than 100 students at each campus. And we do that by design so that the teachers can go ahead and personalize things and work students in small groups, if not one-on-one.

Sam Demma
How do people find your schools? Has XSEED been open for a long time? Tell me a little bit more about the process of a family getting their kid involved in one of your campuses.

Betty Norton
Yes, so we opened our doors back in September of 2017. And honestly, the fastest way for them to find us now is typically word of mouth. We have a very strong community build where our families will share with their friends and let them know what the experience has been for their child and so they’ll come out and visit our campuses. But otherwise we do

Betty Norton
what everybody else seems to do. We participate in conversations, we go to conferences, we have our website and Google and so forth. So we do have an active Instagram page and we get a lot of our families through our social and through word of mouth

Sam Demma
When you think of the students you serve at exceed across all campuses How do you measure the success of a student is it? I guess it must be based on their own goals and dreams and if you if you were able to help them move closer to those, but are there any students that stick out in your mind when you think of the impact that XSEED has had on a student’s journey?

Betty Norton
Yes, so you’re right. We do have a different, different ways of measuring, but quite honestly the first and foremost way that I measure student success is based on how happy they are. Many of our students are coming to us because they either feel like they’ve been left behind at a traditional school, whether it be private or public. Larger schools have a difficult time, and no fault to them.

Betty Norton
I used to work public school for about 20 years, so I understand the needs of the classroom teacher. But sometimes you just need to have a little bit of extra time every day to help you do what you need to do. So some of our students really come to us because they want that flexibility in their day,

Betty Norton
they want a little bit of a later start, and they want more of that one-on-one experience so that we can help them with those foundational skills. So honestly, seeing students go from being a little sad or depressed or feeling like they couldn’t achieve things or just even basic things like,

Betty Norton
miss, I’m not good at this math, I’d like to skip it or move on to something else. And then going in, let’s say six to seven weeks after they start with us and see them participating, not only just joining, but participating in a group session and getting up to the board and running through the math and showing you that they know what they’re doing is kind of an amazing task. I think one of the biggest memories that I have with XSEED that really made me proud of what we do and what our team has been successfully doing for the last few years, especially.

Betty Norton
I’ve been to probably 50 or 60 National Honor Society inductions. Between all the schools that I’ve ever worked in and working at the district level, you tend to be invited to things like that. And it’s always a very nice affair and everyone’s quite proud of their child. But at Exceed,

Betty Norton
since so many of those students were already struggling at their previous schools, I’d never seen so many parents just kind of move to tears with sharing so many stories of how their child, if they stayed at their school, they would have never been part of National Honor Society because they just weren’t getting the time and attention that they needed to be successful. So to see something that became so normal for me and then run into so many families that were just crying

Betty Norton
and brought every relative, the biggest event just to celebrate their child’s success really was a huge moment for me. It made me feel like we really were heading in the right direction and providing this level of education for kids.

Sam Demma
It’s so cool to hear about the impact the programs are creating in the lives of families and their children. I know that the reason many educators, heart-centered individuals, get into education is because they want to make a difference. Sometimes you don’t hear about it for a really long time, and more often than not, might not even realize that you are making

Sam Demma
a serious contribution to the life of a young person and their family. To attend an event like that and hear the stories must be such a gift. It sounds like you’ve spent years in public education, you’ve now spent multiple years in private education.

Sam Demma
You’ve also spent years teaching and leading virtual education. Can you talk a little bit about what it means to create a great experience virtually for students because school boards, especially in the pandemic hit, really struggled to maintain engagement and provide a good experience virtually. But I think it’s a beautiful opportunity to connect students from all over the globe with virtual experiences.

Sam Demma
And I know you’ve been doing it very well. No, thank you. And I mean, Sam, I’ll have to say, just this experience that you and I are currently having,

Betty Norton
that you’re in Canada and I’m in Florida, and we’re able to have this conversation, and I feel like we’re in the same room just chatting with each other. So the virtual education, I think, that’s probably the biggest piece right there.

Betty Norton
If you can help the student feel like they are live and in person and they’re engaging, regardless of where they’re sitting, I think you’ve really, you’ve kind of like overcome your first hurdle, if you will, in the virtual world. The other is over communication. I think that when you have a physical environment, people get a lot of their

Betty Norton
physical cues, you know, they look at each other, they can see how someone is feeling and so on, but in the virtual world, it’s kind of radio silent until you tap into them. So it’s really important to have different engagement opportunities for our students. We have social hours for them. We have activities that we sometimes run. We have virtual parties. We have all kinds of things that help them still be a part

Betty Norton
of our virtual community. They can even volunteer online and participate in donations if they wanted to donate for Toys to Tots or what have you through that virtual platform. So I think the key there in order for the students to feel really engaged is to have those connections

Betty Norton
and have those opportunities for the students to be a part of something, whether they can physically be there or not, they feel connected to everyone else in the group.

Sam Demma
Throughout your educational career, which mentors have you had or resources that have been really instrumental in your personal and professional development? And if so, what did you learn from those things or those individuals?

Betty Norton
Yes, that’s a really good question. So I’m gonna have to say my very first resource is the library. Ever since I was in elementary school, any time I wanted to know a little bit more about something rather than, and maybe this is probably because I did go to public and private school when I was younger, but going to your teacher and asking 20 questions wasn’t always ideal.

Betty Norton
So being able to go to the library and check out books and talk to the librarian and learn as much as I could about a particular topic really helped me stay curious and really helped me figure out how to tap into things and be a self-advocate and self-reliant. I think those skills really have transferred into my academic career and my professional career. But if I were to talk about any one mentor that I think really helped change things and

Betty Norton
helped mold me is Dr. Janet Allen. She was my college professor, and I kind of used to call her my college mom. So she’s the person who guided me through the entire process, helped me land my first job in education, and really saw that I had a passion for working with students, especially underprivileged students,

Betty Norton
who may have been attending Title I schools or lived in difficult environments. And me growing up in Newark, New Jersey also kind of gave me that opportunity to feel like, yes, I know what it’s like to be in a tough neighborhood and go to school.

Betty Norton
So she really understood what I wanted and saw that talent in me and made sure that I was in every rough school I could possibly work in so that I can make the greatest impact. And I really appreciate her for that because if it wasn’t for her, I don’t know that I would have taken advantage of those opportunities myself.

Sam Demma
Does she know how much of a difference she’s made in your journey in life?

Betty Norton
I hope so. I ran into her probably about seven years ago. She was presenting at a conference and I just walked up to her and said, hey, do you remember me? And she said, yes.

Betty Norton
And I said, I just wanted to give you a big hug and say, these are all the things I’ve been able to accomplish because you put me, or helped put me on the right path. And we both cried a little bit over that and reminisced about the good old days.

Betty Norton
But so I think to a certain extent she knows. Does she know? The full extent of it I think as teachers we never really know the power that we have over someone or how far our reach is, even when we run into them, really. They share their successes, and we say that’s fascinating. But to have that inside of you and every time you think about that person,

Betty Norton
you can get warm fuzzies and feel like they were your greatest cheerleader and supporter. I don’t know that we ever know how great that impact is.

Sam Demma
I think it’s an important reminder that we don’t know, and it’s equally as important a reminder to reach out to those individuals and tell them. I have a teacher who in grade 12 totally changed my life and trajectory, and fortunately he lives close to home,

Sam Demma
and we’ve stayed in touch over email, and once a year I try to eat a lunch with him and his wife on their porch and their dog. And every time I go, I get emotional. And I tell him and his wife how thankful and grateful I am for their presence in my life growing up.

Sam Demma
And I just think that the world needs more of those moments. And if you still have contact with Dr. Janet, it would be a beautiful reason to reach out and let her know. And if you’re an educator listening to this and you haven’t heard from a student or a colleague about the impact you’ve created on their life, just because you haven’t heard doesn’t mean you weren’t instrumental in that person’s personal and professional development. So please keep showing up and keep going and start the cycle. If there’s someone who had an impact on you

Sam Demma
and you’re listening to this, reach out to them. Use this as a reason to do so. I’m curious, Betty, you seem like someone who is extremely driven and dedicated to supporting young people and their families and advancing them in their education and their personal dreams and goals. How do you fill your own cup when you’re not at work to ensure that when you do show up,

Sam Demma
you’re giving the best of yourself that you possibly can? Well, I think the most important thing is to strike a balance between what you do for

Betty Norton
yourself and what you do for others. And a balance doesn’t necessarily mean 50 50, right? Today, it might be 100% exceed and 0% Betty, but tomorrow, it might be 90% Betty and 10% exceed, right? It’s knowing that balance, knowing what the priority is of the day and where you’re going to make the most impact. When you first start off, especially doing something

Betty Norton
at this scale, you feel like you have to be there for every single person, and you want to be a great leader, you want to be able to talk to them and say, I have an open-door policy, reach out to me, talk to me. But if you allow that, you could easily have 65 to 70 people reaching out to you on a daily basis,

Betty Norton
trying to troubleshoot things. So I think the biggest thing that I try to do, especially with our heads of schools and our leadership team is delegates, right? I want them to be able to provide and support our teachers by becoming experts in different areas. So even though I oversee everything,

Betty Norton
I do have them helping and balancing the load. And I try to take off as much as I can off their plates so that they can spend their time working on the job itself, working with the families and the students. And I take care of the business side of things or managing any issues that we may have, our curriculum, our facilities,

Betty Norton
and so forth. But I think having that downtime at home, spending time with my family, I have a daughter, a son, and a beautiful husband who are incredibly supportive of me, who understand that sometimes I have to work on a Sunday at 6 in the morning, and understand that, you know, I make up for it in other ways. We have family time, we always have dinner together, I do have a few things that are non-negotiables, if

Betty Norton
you will. I think those are important to have that set of standards in your work life, but also have some boundaries in your personal life.

Sam Demma
Saying no is so difficult in my own personal life. I know that as an educator, you’re pulled in hundreds of different directions too. How do you build that muscle to set the boundaries and stick to them when you really want to serve and support all the time

Betty Norton
You make a lot of mistakes. I’m gonna be honest with you. I mean, it’s not it’s most certainly not a perfected craft I think it’s always a work in progress and I think it will be until forever Yeah, it really is, you know, sometimes you sit there and go jeez. I probably shouldn’t have extended myself there I really wanted to be better at this and it really only takes one or two opportunities where you feel like you could have been at 100% to make you feel like, okay, I need to really focus because being here for the students and our families is what’s most important to me. Being here to support the teachers is also incredibly important. So once you have

Betty Norton
that experience, you say, all right, I’m going to wake up every morning and get myself organized. So that’s exactly what I do before I even hop out of bed. I go through my calendar, what’s going on, what do I need to do, what do I need to fire off and delegate or ask someone to assist with so that I can clear the path and be fully present. That’s something that I’ve been focusing on,

Betty Norton
especially over the last two years, with everything that happened with COVID and social media and all the things that are going on, wanting to be present is incredibly important for me. So I do, I sit with people, I like to sit with you face-to-face.

Betty Norton
I ask for people to turn off their cell phones and let’s just have 20 minutes where you and I are engaging, we’re present, we’re here, we’re not worrying about all the things that are happening around us. And let’s focus on the items that we wanna get to, to make a better tomorrow for everybody.

Betty Norton
But it is difficult.

Sam Demma
The presence piece is huge. I think about my personal relationships and when I feel most seen, heard, understood and connected to others. And it’s when we are sitting together face to face or engaging in an activity, our phones are off or not in sight.

Sam Demma
Simon Sinek, there’s a picture or a video of him sitting on stage, and he pulls out his phone and holds it in his hand and waves it around while he’s speaking, and ask the audience, did it change the way you feel about me while I’m holding my phone speaking to you right now versus when it was hidden in my pocket. And as a viewer watching this video online, I answered the question in my head like saying yes,

Sam Demma
because it made me feel like I wasn’t the most important thing, that you’re holding onto something else. Maybe there’s something you’re thinking about related to your phone or a task you have to complete rather than being present with me.

Sam Demma
And it’s something I’ve tried to carry forward in all of our relationships, whether personally or professionally. When you think about XSEED and the new year’s right around the corner, what are some of the objectives the school as a whole,

Sam Demma
across all campuses are focused on, or some of the things you’re very excited about as we move forward?

Betty Norton
Yeah, so I think I have to start that by saying that I’m already in planning mode for fall of 2025, right? So I’m looking at our curriculum, our staffing, our facilities, the resources, what do we need to do? Are we adding more classes? Are we taking away classes?

Betty Norton
What are we gonna do to help provide opportunities for our students, field trips, guest speakers, and so on. So I’m very much ingrained in fall of 2025 right now, to the point where I’ve actually put in my calendar that Christmas is a week away and I need to shop. And every single day I have a notification

Betty Norton
that says go Christmas shopping, because I’m just so living in the future right now. And we have so many great things planned. We have, you know, with all of our campuses kind of ramping up for the fall, we wanna be able to provide

Betty Norton
those unique student experiences. I’m very big on experience versus giving someone an actual gift, I’d rather you have an experience or a moment, so we’re focusing on what do we need to do to take that classroom, that day-to-day and add to it, right? How do we take this opportunity

Betty Norton
and let you have a real life experience through a guest speaker or a field trip or even just a virtual tour? Those are incredibly powerful as well. You can visit anywhere in the world on a virtual tour. And I think it’s quite fascinating

Betty Norton
to be able to do that with students. But of course, continuing our work with the rigorous curriculum, we are a college prep school, so we want to make sure that we have strong relationships with the colleges and universities, especially those that our students wish to attend. And then supporting our community, having more opportunities dedicated to volunteer work and being able to work with everyone in our, you know, surrounding cities and towns by donating our time. So those are our big focuses.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure having you on the podcast to talk about your journey through education, some of your beliefs and philosophies around education and the cool things that are happening at XSEED across all the campuses. If someone is listening to this very inspired,

Sam Demma
wants to share a note of gratitude or appreciation or ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to reach out and get in touch with you?

Betty Norton
Absolutely, I would love it. I like talking shop, so anyone who’s open to chat, I’m always up for it. But I think emailing me at bnorton@xceedprep.org would be fantastic.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Betty, thank you so much for your time and your presence. I appreciate it and I wish you all the best in 2025 and beyond.

Betty Norton
Thank you so much, Sam. It’s been really great speaking with you today. It’s been really great speaking with you today. Thank you for your time.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Betty Norton

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 13, 2025 by Director of Education Education Educator Entrepreneur School Administration Virtual Education 0

Richard Primrose – Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School

Richard Primrose – Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School
About Richard Primrose

Richard is an educator, school administrator, coach, athlete and father. He has been the Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School for seven years, and has also worked as the Head of Physical Education and Acting Senior School Director. His professional interests include creating a positive school culture and student leadership development, and in his personal time he is a runner, a traveler, and is the father of two young boys.

Connect with Richard Primrose: Email | Linkedin

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Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Michaels University School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Richard Primrose. You can’t see this because you’re listening virtually or in your ears. But Richard is currently wearing a Christmas hat with lights all across it because in a few hours is going to be a very exciting event happening at St. Mary’s University School in Victoria, BC, where Richard works. Richard is a runner, a father of two, a culture fanatic for amazing experiences for young people in school buildings. Richard, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.

Richard Primrose
Yeah, thanks for having me, Sam. I’m really excited. One small correction, the St. Michael’s University School.

Sam Demma
Oh, what am I saying? St. Michael’s University School. That’s a big correction. I appreciate it. And I actually love humanizing folks on the podcast, so I keep mistakes like that in the actual interviews as a way to just remind people that we all make little errors, and I think that’s what makes us more human. Thank you for that correction, and please tell us a little bit about yourself and what actually got you working in education in the first place.

Richard Primrose
Yeah, so my role at my school is assistant director of the senior school responsible for student life and leadership. So the student life aspect, I guess the most important thing I do at the school is creating a positive, safe environment

Richard Primrose
where students can come to school and feel safe and learn and feel like they belong and feel included. So that’s the important scope of my work. And then that involves, you know, all the things that a traditional vice principal, I guess you would say, would do,

Richard Primrose
ranging from all the conversations around discipline, because students do make bad choices, and the important thing is how they learn from them. And then the other end of that spectrum is the leadership, and that’s where a lot of the joy in this work comes, is supporting our student leaders

Richard Primrose
in making all the wonderful, awesome things that happen at the school come to fruition. And I really intentionally talk about supporting student leaders because at my school, one thing our leadership program really values is enabling students to act and giving students the support

Richard Primrose
and the resources and skills to actually get out there and do the real work. So a lot of the stuff you see happening at the school is almost entirely student-led with teachers in the background supporting them and coaching them. And it’s interesting, you talked about including that small error in the podcast. That’s part of our ethos at the school is that these things are not going to be perfect

Richard Primrose
and students are going to, along the way, make mistakes in their leadership and learn from them. So sometimes the events they put out are not 100% polished and necessarily world-class, but the real learning is in the students when they are in action and making small mistakes and getting better from those so that’s a part of our philosophy as well. Is there a reason

Sam Demma
you’re working in education today? Did you know when you were growing up that you would be serving young people?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, that’s a great question. My mom taught kindergarten and grade one. So from an early age, I was exposed to schools and she was a wonderful, beloved teacher. So I think that always planted a seed. Education runs deep in my family.

Richard Primrose
My grandma was a preschool teacher and I have other family members in education as administrators as well. So I suppose it’s in my blood in some ways and that seed was always planted. So at a young age, I suppose I could see myself doing it. And then I had my background growing up playing sports is just a huge part of my development.

Richard Primrose
As a younger kid, I played everything. And then as I got, you know, as a teenager, really focused on baseball and basketball. So a lot of seminal experiences there. And I think my background in sports sort of nudged me in the direction of education. I did go through a phase where I thought law school might be a good fit for me and kind of through university was I met up. But in the end, I did a physical education degree with a minor in geography. And I think one of the reasons I wanted to get into schools was to be involved in sports and be involved in coaching. And then as I got my job at St. Michael’s University School and I realized how much

Richard Primrose
I enjoyed it, how much fulfillment there is and how much purpose there is in education, I began to realize that this really is where I want to be. And my pathway has ranged from being a PE teacher, being a director of athletics for a year, and then kind of naturally led into administration when opportunities came up. So my job looks a lot different now, but it’s still working with kids, supporting kids as leaders.

Richard Primrose
So that’s sort of a bit of a rambling explanation as to how I got here. So I, yeah, I think the seed was always planted, but as I moved along in my education and sport career, I realized the place I wanted to be.

Sam Demma
And the role you’re in today allows you to work so closely with young people, despite the fact that you’re not sitting in their classroom. But the impact is massive. I was fortunate enough to visit the campus at St. Michael’s University School and meet many of the staff and the students who were all

Sam Demma
so kind and well-behaved and welcoming. These spaces are absolutely beautiful and also very inclusive. I felt like I was at home, despite the fact that I was pretty far away from home. So what do you think has contributed to that culture of belonging and kindness at school?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, that’s really great to hear, Sam. I appreciate that. It’s nice to hear that our students made you feel that way because that’s important to us. I think we’ve been very intentional about creating that kind of environment. Equity, diversity, and inclusion is a priority at our school and we’ve created a lot of language around that, that common language that we use. And right from the first day, our senior school students arrive on campus, they each are handed a little business card that’s got our equity, diversity, and inclusion statement on it. So right away, they’re seeing language around our beliefs surrounding creating a place where we feel like they belong and that we actually celebrate and embrace differences and diversity. So day one, they get the little card that’s got our statement on it, which was co-created with students, including our Pride Alliance. And then on the back of the card, there’s some resources that they can reach out to if they happen to be struggling with their mental health or with belonging. So I guess part of that is just when they get here, seeing the language, having people use it, and knowing right away that it’s one of our core values around belonging.

Sam Demma
The staff, I found, were also very welcoming and close-knit. I had a great experience with the lower school as well. I’m forgetting the individual’s name who was working with me at the time in this space, but everyone was so helpful and welcoming. And the educators themselves sometimes, in my experience, forget the impact they’re creating

Sam Demma
in the lives of young people. Maybe a student in their classroom doesn’t tell them until 10 years later when they graduate from the school and come back and let the teacher know. Or sometimes they never tell them, but the impact they’re creating is real. Do you have any words of advice or wisdom for an educator right now who’s heading into the holidays or starting the new year

Sam Demma
and is feeling a little bit burnt out, like they’re not making a difference?

Sam Demma
Yeah, have you ever felt like that before

Sam Demma
and what advice would you give them?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, you know, in education sometimes it feels like, I’ll use a bit of a training metaphor here, that we’re doing intervals. And, you know, we’re just coming out of a really intense interval here and now we’re about to get a break. So I think looking at it through that lens for educators taking your two or three weeks and really practicing self-care to recharge the batteries is important. So identifying the things that work for individuals to practice self-care. For me, it’s getting out for runs, it’s making sure I’m getting outside and moving. I love to run. I’m not necessarily very fast, but I get out there and do my best and it makes me feel good. It sharpens my thinking. It helps me manage my stress. So running and the other one is getting in the gym and throwing some weights around is good for me as well. But I think if people are looking at things that help them with their wellbeing, exercise has got to be one of them. And what else is it? You know, like, is it picking up a book and carving out time for yourself to read? And I like to read real old school paper books.

Richard Primrose
You know, that works for me getting off screens, but intentionally carving out that time. And then of course, spending time with family, friends, loved ones, Christmas is great for that. So I guess really it’s going into these holidays with a bit of intentionality to make sure you’re prioritizing the things that keep you well and make you feel good.

Sam Demma
Well, this is so important. Sometimes I neglect certain habits in my life. And when I return to them, it almost smacks me in the face like, oh my goodness, this is what I was missing this entire time because I was so focused on other things and work output that I forgot to pour into myself. And I think educators or any individuals who are in heart-centered work where you’re always trying to help and support others can sometimes fall into that trap as well. It sounds like running and exercise is one of those things for you. How do you balance the demands of work and also family? You know, you have two young kids.

Sam Demma
I’m sure they keep you busy. How do you manage the balance between everything?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, I mean, it’s a challenge. And to be honest, I probably would like to be spending more time doing my running and having workouts right now, but it’s just a matter of prioritizing and making sure you’re not finding yourself wasting too much time or procrastinating

Richard Primrose
and really trying to go in with a plan. And I talk to my my student leaders a lot about this being intentional, having a plan and then having some kind of system in place to to track that. So, again, with students, I talk a lot about how are you organizing yourself? Like, where are you making your notes? Where are you having your to do list and things of that nature.

Richard Primrose
So I think, obviously, leaders have to have some way of keeping track of their priorities. And if you can sort of weave in personal priorities as well and get that on your list of things to do, and even sometimes, if you can schedule things like that, schedule a workout, schedule a run,

Richard Primrose
schedule a coffee with a friend or a colleague, that can be a helpful way to make sure you’re including that in your healthy habits and routines. Because I think one thing is safe to say that everyone at some point in time slips out of their best, most positive routine and you have to reflect on how things are going and just make those small changes.

Richard Primrose
Sam, I know you’re big on small, consistent actions. And I think it’s a good thing to, when you’re reflecting on how things are going to go back to those small actions that help set you on the right track. You know, there’s a famous book, Atomic Habits, talks about habit stacking, right? So, if you can start off with small things, sometimes the big habits fall on top of that. People love to talk about the value of making your bed, for example, starting off the day

Richard Primrose
on a positive note and building upon that. I talked to our students at my school about wearing their uniform properly and how that starts the day off on a really positive note. You can check off something that you’ve accomplished, as small as putting on your uniform, and you can build upon that and it builds momentum.

Sam Demma
I had a soccer coach when I was 14, 15, 16, who would stop practice by blowing his whistle in the middle of a game if somebody’s shirt became untucked. And we wouldn’t know what was going on until everyone paused and looked down at their own shirts and one of my teammates would recognize, oh, his shirt fell out, so he’d tuck it back in

Sam Demma
and the game would continue. And this coach of mine had so many principles based around that nature. We would show up to practice and there was this long cobblestone pathway. If you walk the whole pathway,

Sam Demma
it would take you like two minutes to get to the field. If you just cut on the grass, it would take you like 15 seconds. So sometimes, you know, when I was first joining the team, I would naturally cut and I’d walk on the grass and maybe a few times my head coach didn’t notice, so he didn’t say anything, but there was one occasion where I guess you watched me walk along the grass instead of on the cobblestone path. And I got down to the field and I was shaking all the coach’s hand to say hello and he said, Sam, walk back up there and walk down the cobblestone path. And I laugh about it now, but in hindsight, I’m so grateful that I had those experiences because he really taught us that the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. And I think it’s important that we bring good intention to everything that we choose to do, especially when we’re young and we’re building our viewpoints and our perspectives of the world. So I think that’s such a valuable thing that you’re sharing with the students. Are there other principles or ideas that you often talk about with young people that maybe other educators can think about sharing with their students or their schools?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, well, first of all, I love that story. I love the idea as a sport, teaching life lessons, even small things like cutting corners. I talk about that with my rugby guys in training. Same thing, don’t cut small corners, right? I think the other theme that I’m really into these days is the idea that people, in particular students and teenagers, are anti-fragile. So the notion behind that is that not only are people resilient and able to overcome obstacles and challenges, the idea behind anti-fragility is that they actually need those obstacles and those challenges and some pressure and some stress to fully develop and to reach their full potential. And if we’re not experiencing those types of positive challenges, we’re not actually going to reach our full potential. So it’s the idea that people are anti-fragile and need those obstacles in life to overcome and learn from them and grow from them. So that’s like the next step, I think, from the idea of resilience.

Richard Primrose
And I think there, you know, sometimes we’re in a culture now where people tell a story to themselves that they are somewhat fragile, and I’m trying to push back a little bit on that and say that it’s okay to have experiences that stretch you, that push you, that are hard, and you’ll be better because of them and you need them.

Sam Demma
I think it’s such an important message. And the idea of challenges forming us is something that I resonate with because I had some major challenges in my life. And in hindsight, looking back, I wouldn’t change the challenges because they made me the person I am today. They also introduced me to so many other amazing human beings that I wouldn’t have met if I didn’t have

Sam Demma
that challenging experience. Can you think of challenges you’ve had in your life when you were a student or an educator or a parent that when you look back at, you say, wow, I really needed that in my life too because it changed my perspective or shifted something about the way I show up?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, when I have these types of conversations, I very often go back to my experiences playing sport when I was younger. So as a baseball player, so this is sort of when I’m, I guess, six years old to 15, baseball taught me so much about how to manage pressure and how to move beyond those types of things and be able to perform. And it taught me that I can do hard things. So I was a pitcher, so being up there, and as a pitcher, you’re controlling the game, you’re having to pitch strikes, everyone’s watching you. That was my first real bump in with pressure and stress. So that taught me what that feels like and that I was able to actually do it and do hard things. And now later on in my career, that transfers over to having to speak in big venues and things like that, that are still out of my comfort zone. But I often go back to those moments when I was pitching as a 13, 14, 15 year old and what that felt like, and then I was able to do that. So now I can do this. And then using another example from sport, I think about in high school basketball, I didn’t go to this school, I went to a different school. But I had two coaches with very, very different approaches and philosophies towards coaching. And I had one coach who really used fear as a motivator and I didn’t respond very well to that, but my other coach was much more focused on building relationships, being positive, caring about his players, also discipline as well. Like he was the tuck your shirt in type of guy, but I just responded so much better to the coach that really made the effort to build relationships and to serve his players and not lead with fear like the other coach. So that shaped me significantly in terms of how I approach
being an educator, being a leader and being a coach. I definitely move more towards being a relationship builder I think, or at least I try to be, and as much as I can being a servant leader.

Sam Demma
I can’t thank my coaches enough for the experiences they gave me in sports. I also had some absolutely phenomenal coaches who are foundational in my learning and growth and development, not only on the field, but also off the field as a human being.

Sam Demma
And I had some coaches whose style of leadership in some ways taught me what I don’t wanna do in terms of leading other human beings. And both were, I think both were valuable. You would talk about anti-fragility, this idea that we need challenges.

Sam Demma
I think one of the aspects of challenges a lot of people avoid these days are difficult conversations. You know, it’s hard to have certain conversations, but those are conversations that we need to have and they unlock so much opportunity and growth, personally, and within our relationships. You’re someone who has to have difficult conversations sometimes with students and also other staff members. How do you, how do you have a difficult conversation with someone that deep down you wish you didn’t have to have?

Richard Primrose
That’s a great question, Sam. I mean, I guess right from the outset, I’d say that they’re never going to be easy. They should challenge you and they shouldn’t feel natural, right? Those hard conversations.

Richard Primrose
But if I’m coaching students to have these conversations, it’s something I do myself is you have to be prepared. So the harder the conversation, the more time you should really think about exactly what you want to say, the points you want to make, even down to the point of if it’s a big one that you’re really feeling some trepidation about, getting someone who you trust who’s either a colleague or even a mentor and having a coaching type conversation with them before you even enter the conversation. One of the things that you can do entering a difficult conversation is you can really plan well how you want to open it and how you want to make the person feel as you start that conversation. And that’s important because if you make the person feel defensive or if you make them feel like they’re being attacked, that’s going to take the conversation down a path that is probably not going to lead to a positive outcome. So, you can control how you open up that conversation and make the other person feel. Now, where the conversation goes from there is where you have to be nimble and responsive. So, some of the advice I tend to give people as the conversations evolve is you have to really be focused on listening and trying to understand where the person is coming from when they are speaking.

Richard Primrose
Often, I think people go to a place of trying to think about their next move in the conversation or the next thing they’ll say, but really you have to move away from that as much as you can and try and be curious, ask open-ended, calibrating questions to the person and really find out where they’re coming from to try and get to a positive outcome as best you can. So those are a couple little tips I give my students when I’m working with them and coaching them on difficult conversations. The reality is very few people are masters of those conversations, and there are certainly tough ones that I have still, and often I will debrief after the conversation and can recognize things I would have done differently or things I said that maybe didn’t take it down the path that I wanted it to go. The key thing is preparation, going in really curious and asking questions, and reflecting and learning from those conversations as well. It does – it gets easier as you have experience with those conversations, but it never gets easy.

Sam Demma
It makes me think of the work of a stand-up comedian who prepares for their set, delivers it the best they possibly can, and then sits down with a blank piece of paper to rip apart how they said half of their jokes because they know they could do it better next time. And you do it over and over again. I’ve had a few difficult conversations in my life and it’s a skill that I’m continuously trying to improve. So I appreciate you sharing that information. I know that in a few hours here, you’re gonna be sitting in a student-led, student-created assembly. As you wrap up this conversation, do you wanna talk about that assembly very briefly and maybe some of the things you’re excited about into the new year?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, so this assembly is probably just the most fun, high-energy, crazy assembly we have at our school. So we have holiday dress all week long and kids are decked out in their tackiest Christmas sweaters today. There’s blinking lights everywhere,

Richard Primrose
Santa hats all over campus. And this is just a really fun one. Again, it’s going to be essentially emceed by our two head prefects. And they’re awesome. They’ve done a great job this year. But they run with it.

Richard Primrose
They’ve done the planning. And what you’ll see today is going to be, again, really fun, really engaging. It’s not going to be necessarily a polished professional level assembly, but it’s going to be great and you’re going to see the real work being done, like the authentic leadership in action from our students. So there’s lots of different student parts in the assembly.

Richard Primrose
Obviously we have students performing. And at our school, it’s a school tradition, we culminate with the 12 Days of Christmas song where each grade will sing one of the 12 days and for the grade 12s it’s almost a seminal moment in their career at SMU where they get to sing that 12th day Christmas and you’re going to see streamers flying and horns and drums, but what you actually see is pure joy from those grade 12s.

Richard Primrose
So it’s one of my favourite things we do at the school and I’m really excited about it. And in the new year, you know, well, I’m looking forward to more of that. Our grade 11 students are now thinking about What I kind of call our leadership season at the school. We have a whole program they go through in their grade 11 year building up to Applications to be leaders at the school whether that’s council heads Prefects which is our school leadership council or heads of houses for our boarders who live on campus and they will do an application, put their name forward, and ultimately, it’s students and faculty who vote on those positions. So it’s a democratic process that we have at our school. But for a lot of kids, they’re taking that courageous step right now to prepare their applications and put themselves out there and find out what that looks like.

Sam Demma
It sounds like an exciting time. I hope the assembly goes really well and the new year is off to an amazing start. Keep up the great work you’re doing, keep lacing up the running shoes when you have the time to do so and pushing those weights. And I hope to connect at some point in the new year. Richard, if someone is listening to this right now and they want to reach out or connect with you or have a conversation, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Richard Primrose
They can probably find me on our school website. That’s www.smus.ca and reach out that way. That’s probably the easiest way to get in touch with me. I’m always happy to engage in conversations around life at schools, leadership, anything I’ve talked about today.

Richard Primrose
So yeah, that’d be great. And thanks so much for having me, Sam. What a pleasure. You know, when you came to our school, the energy you brought was really incredible. So if anyone’s listening and thinking about bringing Sam in, he was great. So thanks so much for what you gave to our school community.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it. I’ll talk to you soon my friend. Keep up the good work.

Richard Primrose

Yeah, thank you Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Richard Primrose

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 6, 2025 by Education Educator School Administration 0

Andrea Michelutti – Principal at Laurelwood Public School

Andrea Michelutti – Principal at Laurelwood Public School
About Andrea Michelutti

Andrea Michelutti is an experienced administrator with the Waterloo Region District School Board, where she has served communities since 2008. Over the years, she has worked in a variety of schools, gaining extensive experience and insight into the diverse needs of students, staff, and school communities. Andrea believes her role as an administrator is to “Uplift, Uphold, and Support” every person she serves. Guided by this philosophy, she fosters an inclusive and empowering environment where individuals are encouraged to thrive. Andrea is deeply committed to leveraging the strengths of her staff, enabling them to be their best selves while delivering excellence in education and care. With a passion for student success, Andrea inspires young people to reach and exceed their hopes, dreams, and goals. Her dedication to nurturing growth, resilience, and achievement has made her a respected leader and a source of inspiration for students, colleagues, and the broader school community alike.

Connect with Andrea Michelutti: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Waterloo Region District School Board
Laurelwood Public School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today I am very excited. We have a special guest who is full of full of energy, Andrea McAloody from Laurelwood in Waterloo. I’m so excited to have you on the show to talk about all the amazing things going on at the school. Thank you so much for for coming on.

Andrea Michelutti
I appreciate it. Thank you so much, Sam.

Andrea Michelutti
I appreciate you coming to our school last year, and our students still talk about you. They talk about your red backpack. They talk about always being positive and thinking about what we can do better. So, thank you for this opportunity.

Sam Demma
Since I’ve been at the school, I hear there’s a 10-classroom addition that’s been built and that students are taking the initiative to make it a very hospitable experience, a new, beautiful space where every student feels welcome. Tell us a little bit about what’s going on in the school right now.

Andrea Michelutti
So we are very fortunate. We received ministry funding for a 10 classroom addition because our population keeps increasing. We’re over 700 students. And when it opened this year, we opened to fanfare. The architects really worked hard

Andrea Michelutti
so we have the consistent building, the consistent paint colors, the consistent floor. But what we noticed was that our students took a lot of pride in our building. Our students really focused on what’s on the walls, how are they seen, and what are those really great things that they can do.

Andrea Michelutti
They talked about having, you know, a class meeting and how the third environment is what is needed to make sure they feel successful.

Sam Demma
In addition to the addition on the school, tell me a little bit more about how this year has been so far.

Andrea Michelutti
This year has been absolutely incredible. We started this year with more students than we’ve ever expected, and our students have really been working on this idea of hospitality. It came from my conversations with some students in grade eight, and we focused on those opportunities

Andrea Michelutti
of what they can do every day to make others feel welcomed and accepted. So I always say to my students there’s three things that I need to do. I need to support all of our students. I need to uplift all of our students. And I need to uphold or uphold the high expectations, support all of our students, and uplift. So when we talk about uplifting, we’re talking about like greeting our students,

Andrea Michelutti
making a welcome environment. And I had a group of grade eight students come and say, we need to make sure all of our new students to Laurelwood also feel the same way.

Sam Demma
And was this a student-driven idea? Like they approached you and said, hey, we have to do this, or how did it all come about?

Andrea Michelutti
So when I first came to the school, I went to visit every class and I talked about uplift, uphold, support. And when I first arrived, there’d be days where I’d walk the halls. I was new, where students wouldn’t say hello to me. And I said, I expect you to say good morning to say hello. And at first I thought, oh, this is going to be a little silly. Nobody’s going to buy in. And they bought in. And so we’ve been doing that for about a year and a half. And this September,

Andrea Michelutti
our students came to me, a group of boys came and said, we need to make sure our new grade sevens and our new students also understand the importance of greeting each other. I also had some form where students come back and say they’re at new schools now and they don’t feel the same way. And they’ve also approached their teachers and principals to say, how come you don’t greet us at the door? What can you do different? So it’s that slow momentum. But listening to student voice, especially our grade eight students,

Andrea Michelutti
wanting that environment shows that we’re on the right track.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you’ve built quite the culture and community at the school. How do you build this culture of belonging in a school building?

Andrea Michelutti
That’s one of those tricky pieces. So a few schools back, we really focused on that idea of how do all students feel welcome? And so what we did at one of my staff meetings was I had all my teachers go around and take pictures of what the environment looked like

Andrea Michelutti
and how it created a welcoming environment. And so we put a slide show together, I thought it was great. But then we went to the next level and we had all of our students go around and do the same activity to see the adults in the building

Andrea Michelutti
seeing the same things the students are seeing in the building. And we realized there was some things that were the same, but the students really focused on relationships with teachers. They wanted to take pictures of adults

Andrea Michelutti
that they felt that they were safe with and that they can care that that felt cared about And that was most interesting So knowing that I did stumble with my few decisions before because we weren’t too sure where we were going When I came to the school, I really focused on that student voice and those relationships Why I think we’ve been very successful is because we’re talking openly about it and I’ll take student feedback, even the feedback that’s really hard, I listen to them and see what I can do to improve.

Sam Demma
One of the other programs I’ve heard the school has put a major focus on improving is with special education and the mental health of students. Can you tell me a little bit about that this year also?

Andrea Michelutti
So, being a former special education teacher and a former student where I was in a special education program. I know that many of our students always felt a little awkward because learning was hard for them. They had to learn differently. So with my special education team,

Andrea Michelutti
we really talked about what we can do differently to really target our students in kindergarten, grade one, and grade two to fill in those gaps. And we noticed that our students were feeling more successful.

Andrea Michelutti
We focused on their assets and how can they use their assets to improve their areas where they needed a little more improvement. So I’m thinking about a student in the primary grades. Reading is really difficult for her. And what we really focused on was her ability

Andrea Michelutti
to be an amazing dancer and amazing presenter. So we talked about those really strong strengths, and then we moved it into her reading, and she’s already made huge improvements in reading where now she comes to school every day. So by focusing on making students feel good

Andrea Michelutti
about themselves, really connecting on their strengths, one of the side effects, or one of the outcomes, is better attendance at school. We also changed our educational assisted model from being somebody who just jumps in to support kids, to being joy builders.

Andrea Michelutti
So when EAs come in, they are the ones who are there to bring joy to the classroom. So before, some kids would be like, oh, there’s an EA in the classroom. I hope they don’t take me to work with them. We now, our kids all want to work with the EAs because, again, they’re focusing on students’ strengths. And how can we just get that 1% better every day?

Sam Demma
It strikes me that you’re someone who’s been so passionate about education and serving young people and creating welcoming communities. Did you know when you were a student growing up that you wanted to work in education or what did this pathway look like for you?

Andrea Michelutti
When I was younger, I always wanted to be a teacher, but I also wanted to work in business and I wanted to have those, you know, two jobs combined and I never knew what I wanted to do. In high school and in university, I had a chance to work with two Ontario Hockey League teams. I worked with the Sudbury Wolves and the Peterborough Peets. And those were those opportunities that taught me that skills of hospitality, relationships and team building.

Andrea Michelutti
And then I was able to tie that into my passion for always being a teacher. When I became an administrator, it kind of fell in my lap. I was very new to education. I believe I was about seven years in, and unfortunately my vice, the vice principal at the school got sick,

Andrea Michelutti
and at that time there wasn’t many people interested in going into leadership. So my principal tapped me on the shoulder and said, would you be interested in doing this role for about two weeks? That’s it, two weeks.

Andrea Michelutti
Now I’m at 17 years, which is incredible.

Sam Demma
What has been foundational in your professional development as you’ve worked in schools for over 20 years? Have you had mentors or resources that have been helpful?

Sam Demma
And if so, who are those people

Sam Demma
and what did they do for you and what are some of those resources?

Andrea Michelutti
So every time, like once I started in education, I really looked to different mentors. One of my biggest mentors was Charlie Smith. He was my first principal in Markham. And he was an athlete. He was always in the school,

Andrea Michelutti
and what I learned from him was being visible in the building and building those really strong connections at the same time as having that academic excellence. Under his leadership at his school, our EQAO scores for grade three were very, very low. We were at the bottom of the school board, and within three years, we were fourth in the school board.

Andrea Michelutti
And what I learned from him was good teaching, good relationships, resulted in great outcomes. Another one of my great mentors was a principal named Kristen Phillips, and she really taught everyone the importance of being kind, being present, but really pushing student achievement. It was a school where our academic scores were very low. And again, under her leadership,

Andrea Michelutti
we really targeted small group instruction, finding student strengths and moving on. But my biggest mentor ever was the general manager of the Peterborough Peaks from 95 to 99. He was there much before me and much longer after me, but his name was Jeff Tuey. And I just saw how he always treated everybody with kindness

Andrea Michelutti
and respect. It didn’t matter if you were, you know, just a fan coming to the game or if you were a general manager from an NHL team. The way he treated people was with kindness, knew their names, knew things about them, knew their family, knew their passions, and just sitting there, being in my early 20s, seeing that interaction, I’ve tried to really carry that on.

Sam Demma
Do these individuals know the contribution they’ve made to your professional development and personal life? I think they do.

Andrea Michelutti
I’m still in contact with Jeff Tuey. It was funny, because last year, he was up in Sudbury at a hockey game. I no longer live in Sudbury, and he ran into my family. And we exchanged pictures and our cell phone numbers, and I always reach out to him.

Andrea Michelutti
He’s one of those people where I just thought he is able to make things work. And so that’s been really great connecting. And Charlie Smith and Kristen Phillips, we do every once in a while keep in contact over Facebook. They’re both long retired.

Andrea Michelutti
Those are the people who really made my life in a different trajectory.

Sam Demma
With education and any heart-centered vocation, you’re always pouring into others, your staff members, the students in the building, the families you serve, that sometimes we forget to pour into ourselves. When you’re not in the school building or thinking about work, which is probably never.

Sam Demma
But when you have your time to pour into your own cup, how do you do that? What are some of the activities that fill you back up so you can be your whole self at work?

Andrea Michelutti
I’m really fortunate. I have a great family who’s always around me. And whenever I want to do something silly or crazy, they always embrace it. And it could be something like, you know, we wake up early in the morning.

Sam Demma
It’s important to do.

Andrea Michelutti
But it’s those little small connections with friends, with family, and sometimes in our jobs it’s really busy, but I always make sure that I carve out time for family every day.

Sam Demma
That’s so important. Do you come from a family of educators?

Sam Demma
My family went to university.

Andrea Michelutti
So my family had businesses up in Sudbury and I learned the the value of hard work and how when things are going well, they’re going really well. But during economic slowdowns things are really tough. And so what my parents always taught me was to be very appreciative of what you had and make sure that people always feel valued and welcomed in your life.

Sam Demma
Oh, amazing. You said that you’ve been an administrator for I believe now 17 years? That’s correct. What would you say is the big difference between working in the classroom

Sam Demma
and working as an administrator?

Andrea Michelutti
The biggest difference is the impact you make. So in the classroom you work with 20 to 30 students every day, but in a school I’m serving 700 students and supporting 70 staff members and families. So just seeing how the growth from students from grade 1 to grade to grade 8 and seeing the the gain staff makes is very different from being in the classroom to being in a leadership role.

Andrea Michelutti
I do have a lot of opportunities to teach. So if I’m having a tough day, sometimes I’ll go to a classroom and be like, give me a small group, or let me take a group of students. And so this year, my staff has been really working on how to improve their literacy skills, their math skills, and special education. We’re doing everything this year.

Andrea Michelutti
And so when we do have guest speakers, I’ll often say, I’ll take all the students to the library, do a little teaching so the students can work together. But the biggest impact is who we’re serving.

Sam Demma
If you were to think back to your first year

Sam Demma
as an administrator, I’m sure there’s still unique challenges that you’re solving now, but that first year must have been, in some ways, a learning experience. What are some of the advice you would give based on your own past experiences to

Sam Demma
other teachers who might be becoming administrators as they’re listening to this podcast. The one there’s two

Andrea Michelutti
pieces of advice. One is always be kind to others and two is always be kind to yourself. So my first year, I was very aware of all the mistakes I was making and then when I talk to those teachers or those principals, they never notice my mistakes. So I’ve really adopted the model of, if I have a really tough day and I’ve made a bad decision,

Andrea Michelutti
I’ll say, wow, that principal made a really bad decision, but Andrew McAloody is still a really good person. And so I think it’s really focusing on being, forgive yourself when you make those difficult decisions. And I always say, there was never a bad decision, it might just have been bad communication,

Andrea Michelutti
and what can you do differently?

Sam Demma
We’re getting very close to the new year. And when folks listen to this, it might be January or into February. What are you excited about moving into 2025? What I’m most excited about is seeing where our students grow. There are some students that have

Andrea Michelutti
made some significant gains in their literacy and math skills. And they’re just at the point of it’s all coming together, so they’re going to soar. I’m also really excited about thinking about how we can engage our families in different ways. I’m very hopeful for 2025, and I know it’s going to be a great year. I always say this year is the best year, but it turns out next year is the best year, and

Andrea Michelutti
the next year is the best year. And so that’s the great part about being in education is every year it keeps getting better and better. So one of my hopes for 2025 is just to make sure everybody feels a sense of belonging, a sense of happiness, and a sense of welcoming.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Andrea, thank you so much for taking time out of the busy schedule to share some of your ideas on the podcast. I appreciate it. I wish you nothing but the most amount of success and happiness into the new year

Sam Demma
with the school, both professionally and in your personal life, and I hope to stay connected. If somebody is listening to this and wants to share a note of gratitude or reach out, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Andrea Michelutti
Send me an email or reach out to me on X. It’s always important to have those connections. And just briefly, I had a student come back to me. I only worked with him for three months in 2016, and I said to him, I expect you to graduate. And he was a student who really doubted his abilities, but I saw something in him. And when he came back four years later, he just surprised me at the school with his

Andrea Michelutti
high school diploma, we’ve taken a picture, and it’s one of those moments I just will always cherish. Because he said, you believed in me, and I had to make sure I kept up to your high expectations. So I love when students come back, when families reach out, because it really makes those connections just that little stronger.

Sam Demma
I love that. Is the picture posted on your social media by any chance?

Andrea Michelutti
It is. I’ll send it to you. It’s one of those great things. And he actually did a video about our relationship. So that was one of those most important pieces, something I cherish.

Sam Demma
Oh, amazing. And what would your ex account profile be if someone did want to touch base?

Andrea Michelutti
It’s at Mickeludi A. So my last name followed by my first initial. So M-I-C-H-E-L-U-T-T-I-A.

Sam Demma
Andrea, thank you so much. This is a big pleasure.

Andrea Michelutti
Thank you so much, Sam, and keep doing the great work you’re doing. and keep doing the great work you’re doing. You’re changing the lives of many people.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Andrea Michelutti

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 30, 2025 by Education Educator Principals Student Success 0

Paul Turner — Language and Literature Teacher at Upper Canada College

Paul Turner — Language and Literature Teacher at Upper Canada College
About Paul Turner

Paul Turner is a passionate Language and Literature high school teacher at Upper Canada College in Toronto, Ontario. Paul has been teaching for twenty-eight years (twenty-five in public education with the last three at the college). Educated at McMaster University with a B.A in English and a B.A. in sociology,  he later completed Teachers’ College at Jordanhill College, Strathclyde University, in Scotland, where he received teaching awards in both English and Individual In Society. Paul also has a Specialist in Guidance Education.  

Recently, Paul has elected to work exclusively with Year 8 and 9 students to give them solid foundational skills for their high school and post-secondary educational journeys to come.  

Paul’s passion for travel is demonstrated with regular trips with students, most recently a food and culture trip to Mexico City and Oaxaca, Mexico.  In March, he will accompany students to Costa Rica on a community service trip where students will volunteer with environmental projects in local communities. Ten years ago, Paul and his wife Jennifer (also a Language and Literature teacher) took their two children Elizabeth and Jack on a 315-day trip around the world.
 
When not enjoying his phenomenal family and teaching career, Paul loves the time he is able to spend up at their cottage on a lake just outside of Algonquin Park.
 
Paul is committed to many whole-school, extra-curricular, and sports activities, in order to help students enjoy their entire secondary school experience. Although he is able to retire from teaching this year, he is not interested in doing so; “there’s just too much to accomplish with the kids I teach and my own personal growth as an educator!”

Connect with Paul Turner: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Upper Canada College
McMaster University

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Paul Turner. Paul and I connected, I want to say about a year and a half ago, or maybe more like a year ago. What I didn’t know about Paul, and we’ll uncover a lot about his work in education.

Sam Demma
What I didn’t know about Paul is that some people take trips, but Paul took a 315 day trip with his family a decade ago around the globe. Can you tell us a little bit about who you are, Paul, and what that trip was, and then we’ll bridge the gap to what you’re doing in education right now?

Paul Turner
Absolutely, and thanks for having me, Sam. It’s an honor, for sure. So my wife is also an educator. She’s an English teacher, and so she’s the big idea person in our family, and one day she said to me,

Paul Turner
we need to take a teacher-funded leave. And that’s going to take place over a six-year period. We’re going to put into it until we can take one full year off. And in doing so, we pulled our kids out of school and we started an Odyssey that took us to around 26 or 27 countries and 300, yeah, as I think you said, 315 days straight, and we did, in fact, go all the way around the globe.

Paul Turner
And it was spectacular. It was probably the best learning experience of our lives, 100%.

Sam Demma
Why? Like, what was the passion behind that idea?

Paul Turner
So our school board, and lots of school boards do this, they actually encourage people to involve themselves in a teacher funded leave. And there’s a bunch of benefits. Obviously the most clear benefit is that when you allow your teachers to go out and immerse themselves in the world,

Paul Turner
you come back as a much more powerful educator, for sure, being able to have witnessed and immersed yourself in so many different cultures and experiences. So, you know, the school board encourages it. I think that there’s a benefit to the school board as well

Paul Turner
because usually you’ve got to be a long-on-the-tooth educator and they get paid more than the young ones. So they can get two teachers for one salary. But I think that ultimately the justification is that, you know, that you come back a better educator and a better person for it.

Sam Demma
It’s obvious education is at the heart of what you do. You are in a position now where you could retire but choose not to. Can you tell me about what got you passionate about education years ago and what keeps you passionate about it now?

Sam Demma
That’s, you know, I think that,

Paul Turner
I worked in public education for 27 years, and not to run anything down, but that’s a slog. It was, for the first 15, it was amazing. And then I just started to find that the education system in Ontario has been, consistently by different governments, has just been emptied. And so anybody who knows an educator

Paul Turner
in the public school board system knows that they’re tired, that they are, that they’re under-resourced, and the expectations are greater than ever. With that being said, still a wonderful job, and I have so many friends who are in the public education system.

Paul Turner
My wife continues to be. But I got an opportunity to come to a wonderful school in Toronto called the Upper Canada College and I think that I was probably on the verge of thinking about retiring after a fairly long career. And when I got here, I recognized the value of, it’s important to remember, I’m a huge supporter of public education, so it’s almost a small irony that I work in a private education field.

Paul Turner
But at the same time, it’s rejuvenated my career. I just absolutely love what I do now, and so I have committed to a couple more years at least to stay in the education system and just keep going.

Sam Demma
Did you know when you were a student yourself that you wanted to work in schools or how did you find this vocation?

Paul Turner
So actually no, I had really, I went to see my guidance counsellor and she basically said, you know, what do you want to do? My family was very involved in law enforcement and so I said, you know, I think that I’d probably like to be a police officer or a teacher. And so after I graduated from high school, I started going to college for law and security. I was immediately hired by a police force and became a police officer for a few years. And I recognized very soon that simply having a high school diploma,

Paul Turner
a little bit of college, of course the police force will pay for you to be educated on a part-time basis, but it would have taken me 10 years to get a university degree. And so I took the leap to quit and with the intent of going to university, getting a degree and then returning. But the further and further away I got away from policing and the more leadership opportunities I had in university taught me that I wanted to be an educator. in a community education teaching role. And then ultimately went to Teachers College

Paul Turner
and never looked back. It sounds like your time at UCC was so special. It revitalized your passion for education.

Sam Demma
What is it about UCC in comparison to other places you worked in the past that brought that passion back out of you? So I think it’s a very holistic approach passion back out of you?

Paul Turner
So I think it’s a very holistic approach that they have here as a staff, as a team. I’ve never felt more… The administration of the school is there to help me, whereas, you know, oftentimes in education, it can be adversarial with the administration because they’ve got their mandates. You know, the quintessential response that I have for my friends or anybody else who asks me is that every day I come to

Paul Turner
work in one way, shape, or form, I’m thanked for the work that I do, parent, student, administrative, other colleagues. Somebody thanks me in one way or another. And when that happens, it just makes you feel like, okay, I’m doing something that’s important

Paul Turner
and people are recognizing that. And it’s not about me, it’s more about the ethos and understanding of this culture of appreciation. The boys that we teach here are, I won’t lie, they’re very, many of them are very wealthy, but you don’t know that.

Paul Turner
It doesn’t feel like that. They’re here to learn, and they love the learning that they’re doing, and so when I can facilitate that, or help facilitate that, it’s very encouraging. It’s very, it makes you feel great. And walking onto this campus in downtown Toronto,

Paul Turner
30 acres, with the storied history of this building, we’re coming up on our 200th anniversary, obviously. That’s a big deal. 2029, yeah. So, you know, when I walk onto the campus, I feel like a $100 bill.

Paul Turner
It just feels great to be on here. The energy and the enthusiasm is amazing. So, yeah, that’s why I’m gonna stay.

Sam Demma
So you didn’t know at first

Sam Demma
that education was the vocation for you, and then you found that passion through leadership experiences in university, found yourself in public education, transitioned to UCC. Throughout that journey, have you had mentors that have been very instrumental in your personal professional development, or resources that were very helpful? And if so, what were those resources and who are those individuals and what do they do for you?

Paul Turner
I have to say that the biggest resource that’s available to an educator is the human resource of other educators. And so, yeah, I’ve had no one specific mentor, just one after the other after the other of impressive colleagues that are so passionate, so brilliant, so intense about the things that they do. And so, when you get into a, like anywhere, you have people who fill your backpack and people who empty your backpack, right?

Paul Turner
So, I think that in any environment, you have those two kind of different people. What I’ve typically done lately, well, for most of my careers, is align myself with people who are really smart, who are really passionate, who really were interested in developing positive educational relationships with kids and learn from them and just draw down on that. Alternatively, though, I find that I learn a great deal from the kids.

Paul Turner
The kids, they drive you, they want to succeed. And so I take a lot of my cues about how I learn from the kids themselves, because sometimes they ask me questions I don’t know the answer to. I go, okay, well, let’s go find that out.

Paul Turner
Let’s figure this out together. Yeah, so I think that, you know, and I’ve met, as I said, the human resources are the most important part. The people that I’ve met in my journey in education have been phenomenal and so varied in their experience and their approaches. And you just try and pick out the best of everybody and then make it your own and try and figure out a way to ball all of that up so that you can get it out to the kids and create opportunities for their success.

Sam Demma
Were you always someone who did things extracurricularly in schools? Did you have to find your footing for a while before you dove in? I know that today you do a lot outside of the classroom as well.

Paul Turner
So, schools take, not take advantage, but they recognize young people who are hungry, who want to secure their position in a way that will be creating some degree of longevity. So they tap you pretty early to say, what can you do for us, right? And so I think that in my early career, I was, along with a group of peers, we were kind of the go-to people.

Paul Turner
I used to have a vice principal who said that the reward for good work is the expectation for more good work. And so, you know, in a building, you see that there are lots of people who take a leadership role

Paul Turner
in terms of the extracurriculars. And you typically find that about half the staff is controlling about 90% of the extracurricular activities and coaching and things like that. I was for a very long time very engaged, did everything, anything anybody asked me to. When I had my own kids, I pulled back a little bit. I justified that in my mind that, you know, I’ve been looking after other people’s

Paul Turner
kids for a long time. Now I have my own children and I’m going to pour as much as I can into them. As my children have grown up, and they are pretty almost there, I’ve been able to get involved in a lot of things. And so the involvement that I’ve had at Upper Canada College has been spectacular for me, as well as providing, you know, I enjoy providing my time and the efforts But I’m growing as a person because of my involvement in those extracurricular activities as well

Sam Demma
When you think about all the experiences you’ve had in education This must be a very difficult question to answer that I’m about to ask you are there any experiences that stick out on your mind as things that brought you so much joy and fulfillment or moments that you are incredibly proud of being a part of throughout your educational journey?

Paul Turner
You know, there’s a lot of times where teachers feel beat up or, you know, sometimes, you know, you’ll have a bad day, you’ll have a run in with a kid or a parent will, you know, take in a task on something rightfully or wrongfully. And those days are difficult. And one colleague that I met very early on in my career

Paul Turner
gave me a piece of advice. And what he said was, every time you get a card from a kid, every time you get a note from a parent or a child or a supervisor that’s positive in nature, read it, put it in a box. And essentially what they indicated was that on those bad days where you think that, you know,

Paul Turner
am I in the right career? Did I do something wrong? And you’re feeling bad about something. You go to that box and you look through and you see, you see that those things outweigh the negatives by a long shot.

Paul Turner
And you see the positive impacts that you have on kids. And because to get to receive a letter or a note from a kid is very special because they generally, you know, I found that generally they don’t do that unless they’re really motivated to. And so as a consequence, you know, those are things that come from the heart. And yeah, so I mean, the other thing that I’m really proud of, and I try and instill this in new teachers as well, is that I did something that was, quite frankly, I still think about it, and it amazes me, is that my mother passed away many years ago. And we were having a coffee one day, talking about, probably about something that I was doing at school.

Paul Turner
And she said, you know, that must be amazing. You know, and I said, well, yeah, I have an amazing job. And so I said, would you like to come to my school and watch me teach for a day? And she said, I could do that. And I said, absolutely. So, arranged it and she came in, had a lesson planned for her so she could follow along.

Paul Turner
And we taught my class and she saw how I interacted with the kids and took her out for lunch and, you know, introduced her around to the building. And of course, her experience at school is vastly different than what goes on in the school in recent memory. And so, you know, when she was ill before she passed away, she told me that that was probably one of the best days of her life.

Paul Turner
And that’s something. Yeah. So, yeah. So, I mean, this job has provided me with so much joy and so much good karma, I think. Definitely bumps along the road, but generally speaking,

Paul Turner
something that I’m gonna look back on fondly.

Sam Demma
You can feel your heart through the screen, through the podcast. I actually lost my grandfather when I was 13 and we share the same name. And he only ever knew Sam, and Sam, the guy who played sports,

Sam Demma
and Sam, the soccer player, and he never got to meet in person. Sam, the author and speaker and all the other things, and I wish I could have had him, you know, in my corner at this stage of my life to have conversations with,

Sam Demma
and I think that’s such a beautiful opportunity, and I hope that other educators that are listening that still have their parents around, if their parents are able to and interested in joining them for a day of work, bring your parents to work day. It should be a new thing.

Sam Demma
I think that that idea is worth this conversation and goal, and I appreciate you sharing that experience. Yeah, that’s amazing. When you did that, did other teachers in the building, if you can remember, did they say like, oh my goodness, this is a great idea,

Sam Demma
I should bring my parents, or was it just like a-

Paul Turner
Absolutely, and I have motivated a few people to do that in the various locations, and I take student teachers every once in a while, I’ve got one coming in in February, and it’s something that I always relate to them, that there’s so much magic in that, you know, our parents

Paul Turner
fill us up with with so much and they really Rarely ask for anything in return and to be able to give them an example of well to give my mother An understanding of the success that she created Was it was you know something that I felt was really important for me as a person, but also I wanted to show her just how much I appreciated that she got me there to a place where I was very happy and successful. So yeah, it was magic for

Sam Demma
sure. You are involved now in lots of extracurricular activities. You know, you’re teaching full-time in the school, you’re raising the kids. When you’re not pouring into others. How do you feel, how does Paul fill his own cup?

Sam Demma
Yeah, so we’ve got

Paul Turner
good friends that we spend time with and we have, we’re very very fortunate to have a property up north on a lake and so we get up there as often as we can, we can use it in the winter and so you know, I mean there’s a bunch of things that I like to do. I have to admit sometimes I can be a bit of a couch potato and watch some really good series on Netflix or what have you. I listen to podcasts. I really enjoy spending time with my family.

Paul Turner
And so that time takes different forms because my son still lives at home, home but my daughter is at university and she plays varsity volleyball for university and so we try to get to as many games as we can throughout the province and yeah so and like you we’re just gearing up for the holidays and our very small family will get together at the cottage for the whole time and it’s going to be terrific. So I like to, yeah, my wife and I go for walks

Paul Turner
up north. Sometimes I sit on the deck and watch hummingbirds as they go by. So yeah, so I really enjoy being in nature and so as a consequence that’s where, you know, we spend our whole summer up at our cottage and so that’s really a great place to recharge and get things done. I love, just as a side note, I love, people think it’s weird, but I love to chop wood and I kind of try to figure out why that is. I finally figured it out is that, you know, in education, the process sometimes is slow, right? Your engagement with a kid, you see them for only an hour a day and then over a period of time and you don’t even know if you’re having any impact. Sometimes you do,

Paul Turner
sometimes you don’t. More times than not, you don’t even know if you have any, had any impact. More like water on a stone. And so, you know, I found that the act of chopping up a tree, cutting it into blocks, and then splitting it, stacking it, and drying it, and then being able to use it down the road to warm the house that my family lives in. It’s very tangible, kind of beginning, middle, end, done,

Paul Turner
where I don’t get that necessarily. Most of us don’t, in our jobs, get that beginning and finish. So I find it very relaxing and it’s good exercise.

Sam Demma
I don’t think it’s weird at all. I love it. And Rocky Balboa does too. We didn’t get a chance to talk about your international trips with students, the service learning that you’ve done with students. When you mentioned Hummingbird, I thought of a bird that I saw in Costa Rica for a conference I was in a few weeks ago,

Sam Demma
and I know you’ve brought students there as well. It sounds like you get thanked a lot at UCC by your colleagues, by parents, and also the students, but I wanted to thank you personally as well for the work that you’re doing in education, choosing to maintain in this beautiful vocation.

Sam Demma
There’s a lot of young teachers that are listening to this right now, and you’ve just put a beautiful spotlight on what’s possible. And I hope that other people listening reach out to you if they have questions or to thank you as well. And if they do, what would be the best way

Sam Demma
for them to get in touch or share a note of gratitude?

Paul Turner
Well, because I’m an old school guy and old, old, old, I-

Sam Demma
He chops wood guys, he chops wood.

Paul Turner
I don’t have any socials, but if somebody had the inclination to reach out to me, they can do so at my email address, which is pturner@ucc.on.ca.

Sam Demma
Oh, thank you so much. Keep up the amazing work and enjoy the the time of North with the family.

Paul Turner
Thank you so much for having me Sam. It’s been a great Thank you so much for having me Sam. It’s been a great experience.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Paul Turner

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 23, 2025 by Education Educator Teachers 0

Todd Nesloney – Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership for the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association (TEPSA)

Todd Nesloney – Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership for the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association (TEPSA)
About Todd Nesloney

Todd Nesloney is the Director of Culture and Strategic Leadership for the Texas Elementary Principals and Supervisors Association (TEPSA). He has also served as an award-winning principal of a PreK-5th Grade campus of over 775 students in a rural town in Texas. He has been recognized by the White House, John C Maxwell, the Center for Digital Education, National School Board Association, the BAMMYS, and more for his work in education and with children. Todd has written six books, including the runaway smash Kids Deserve It and his newest book Building Authenticity: A Blueprint for the Leader Inside You. He is passionate about doing whatever it takes for our students and teachers and helping others tell their story

Connect with Todd Nesloney: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

TEPSA
Kids Deserve It
Building Authenticity: A Blueprint for the Leader Inside You

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Todd Nesloney. Todd is author to six books. He is a culture fanatic. He seems to be a superstar fan with the sweater he’s wearing in this interview. Yeah, all right, Star Wars fan, I should say.

Sam Demma
And although we’ve only known each other for a few minutes, has so much positive energy. Todd, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.

Todd Nesloney
Hey man, I’m super excited to be here and to get to chat today. So thank you for asking me to be here.

Sam Demma
Why teaching? Why education? Tell me more about your passion for creating the next generation of young leaders and principals and teachers.

Todd Nesloney
You know, I love when I get asked this question because I get to kind of reflect on my own path and know that, you know, my experience in school was one where I wasn’t really in trouble because I knew my mama would come up to that school and handle me. So I wasn’t ever going to get in trouble for any kind of reason. I had good grades. I did what I needed to do. And so because of that, I kind of like blended in really easily with the rest of the students.

Todd Nesloney
And so I don’t remember any of my teachers from school, not for good or for bad. I didn’t have any terrible teachers, but I don’t remember any teachers that really ever saw me. And so throughout school, when I was like, what do I want to do with my life?

Todd Nesloney
I was like, I want to work with kids in some capacity. I want to work with kids where when they leave me and working with me, they at least feel seen. And so I thought it was gonna be social work until I learned very quickly, I cannot disconnect myself emotionally

Todd Nesloney
from that kind of work, so it’s not for me. And I was like, teaching, I have several people in my family who are teachers, I can impact kids that way. And so I became a teacher, fell in love with it, never thought I would do anything outside the classroom. And then this opportunity to go and get your masters

Todd Nesloney
while you’re teaching came up and my co-teachers and I were like, let’s all do it together. It’s all virtual, we can work together and we did that. And then from there on, it just led to opportunity, opportunity, opportunity. And I’m the kind of person where if I’m feeling challenged

Todd Nesloney
by something, I wanna pursue it. And so I was like, well, you know what, I’m feeling really good right now in teaching. I feel like I’ve got a really good flow. I’m not really being as challenged as I have been in the past.

Todd Nesloney
Let me jump into this and try this. That looks fun and challenging. And so that led to me being a principal, which led to me speaking and presenting and consulting and also now with my to work at the Texas Elementary Principal Association.

Sam Demma
It sounds like needing to have a challenge is a consistent theme in your life. We just talked about it before we hit the record button regarding some of the books you’ve written and how those were big challenges and you never imagined you’d write the book and maybe that’s the reason why you did the first one and what a gift to the world. Can you tell us a little bit about some of your books that are relevant in education?

Sam Demma
Kids Deserve It, of course, we can start there maybe and then a few of your other projects.

Todd Nesloney
Yeah, you know, Kids Deserve It was crazy. I will never forget sitting around the table with my co-author at the time and hearing him. We were talking about like, let’s write something together. We were writing blog posts, it was really easy. And the phrase, Kids Deserve It,

Todd Nesloney
came up in the conversation. And we were like, hey, that’s a pretty cool phrase. And like, we could really run with that with a lot of these ideas that we have. And so the book was born from that and it took off far more than we were anticipating. Like I

Todd Nesloney
was like 12 copies this next year, that’s my goal. Like if I can sell 12, success! And then it just created this entire community, this movement, and when I wrote it I was like I’m done. Like I put everything into there, I will never write another book, that was so much work, my whole heart is on the page. And then, because I also don’t want to put something out into the world that there are so many versions of already. Like, I like to feel like I’m trailblazing or trying something new or pushing the boundaries, which is part of our tagline in Kids Deserve It.

Todd Nesloney
And so when my publisher kept saying, you’ve got more ideas, you’ve got more ideas, I was like, yeah, but I don’t have like a unique hook right now or anything. And that’s where the next book was born, which out of all my books, it is probably the one I’m proudest of. And that’s just because it’s called Stories from Web,

Todd Nesloney
because I worked at Web Elementary. And when I wrote my second book, it’s written very similarly to Kids Deserve It, except I utilized some advice one of my mentors gave me. His name’s Jimmy Casas, one of the most incredible speakers and authors in the world.

Todd Nesloney
And he said, Todd, I want you to remember that no matter how big of a microphone you are given, I want you to continue to amplify others louder than you amplify yourself. And that has always really stuck with me. And so when I was writing the second book, I was like, I only want to write this because I’m working with the most incredible people on the planet. Like these teachers at the school that I’m at,

Todd Nesloney
they’re doing amazing things and nobody knows because they’re not on social media or they’re not out there speaking. They’re like just nose to the grindstone, getting it done. And so I said, if I’m going to write a book, I want to feature their stories throughout it.

Todd Nesloney
So every chapter features stories from the custodians, to the teachers, to the instructional aides, to the assistant superintendent, just a reminder that everybody’s voice matters and every story matters. And then from there it led to a book about literacy because I started to fall in love with that, then to a book about student leadership, and then during the pandemic I got to write a book

Todd Nesloney
just filled of hope and inspiration. My first book, not for educators, just for anybody, that anybody can pick up and just get a dose of art and words on the page to inspire them. And then my newest book is all about leadership and how every one of us is a leader, whether you are leading at work, at home, or in your friendship circles, just with strategies on how to do that and do it well.

Sam Demma
When do you sleep, Todd?

Todd Nesloney
Great question. Now I don’t sleep at all because we’ve got three-and-a-half-year-old twins. But, you know, it’s funny because I get asked that a lot, like, how do I do all the things that I do? And I am very protective of my personal time as well. So I have really, my wife and I have communicated a lot

Todd Nesloney
about what is non-negotiable family time or any kind of those kind of things. But what I, this is where my ADHD becomes a superpower instead of a detriment, is that when I get super focused on something or attached to something, I can knock it out much quicker than when I’m distracted

Todd Nesloney
by a thousand things. So when I’m writing, it’s like when that inspiration hits me, I gotta shut the world out, give me two and a half hours, and I can get like 30 pages done. And so, and then when the inspiration’s gone, I’m like, well, I’ll be back in a week or two.

Todd Nesloney
Hopefully it’ll hit me again and then I can continue the work. Um, I I’m so jealous of like those authors who like locked themselves in a cabin for a week and come out with a book. I’m like, nah, I could never.

Sam Demma
You mentioned Webb, the school and the amazing staff. It sounds like the culture in that building is phenomenal. You’re someone who talks about culture, consults on culture, lives it, breathes it, and it’s a word that’s used so often in schools. How do you describe culture

Sam Demma
and how do you think you build a meaningful culture in an educational institution? You know, I think this came,

Todd Nesloney
this started with my classroom experience, coming from that idea of, I never want a student to leave my classroom and not have at some point had their core need met, which was, at the core of each of us is we want to feel seen, we want to feel heard, and we want to feel valued. And so my goal always is with interactions that I have with people, especially for an

Todd Nesloney
extended amount of time when I’m working with them or living life with them, I want to make sure that the things that I’m putting in place to connect with them is meeting one of those needs. Am I helping them feel seen? Am I helping them feel heard? Or am I helping them feel valued? Because if not, it’s just like icing on a cupcake. It’s just like it washes away. It’s sweet. It’s gone. Whatever. And so in

Todd Nesloney
the classroom that was so important. So when I became a principal, I was actually hired as part of my job was to fix the culture of the school. Because they had a 50% turnover every year. Scores were in the trash. And it was a lot of it was just the culture. Teachers didn’t believe in themselves, they didn’t believe in each other, and they didn’t believe in the kids because they’d been broken by the system. And so I was like, you know what? This is my new classroom. These are my new students. And so it’s always been

Todd Nesloney
such a passion of mine because I’m such a heart guy. And so when I work with people now, whether it’s in the corporate world, whether it’s in the education world, or even in a classroom experience, it still goes back to those three core needs.

Todd Nesloney
And my thing is, is like, you can do a lot of nice stuff. I’m from Texas, in the South, we have this phrase of you can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. And you know, it’s kind of that idea of you can do nice things, but if you are still a jerk, your nice things make no difference. And so when I work with administrators, one of the examples that I use is I saw something go viral a few years ago. Fantastic idea.

Todd Nesloney
I did it. And it was the snack cart where they put all these snacks and drinks on a cart and they roll it down the hall and they’ll knock on a door and say, hey, we got some snacks and drinks for you. And I tell people, we as teachers, we love two things, free stuff and spending somebody else’s money. Like those are our top two things.

Todd Nesloney
And so I’m like, you bringing the snack cart, that’s not a bad thing at all. People will open their door, they’ll be excited about a free chips or a free drink. It’s not gonna change the way they feel about you because if I had a terrible supervisor

Todd Nesloney
and they brought me free chips, I’m still going to take your chips. I’m not going to like you anymore, but I’m still going to take your free stuff. And so I said, you know, that cart in and of itself does not impact culture. It’s not a bad thing. I’m not telling you not to do it. Everybody loves free stuff. But what I’m telling you is a cart full of random snacks and drinks does not make anybody feel seen, does not make anybody feel valued, or does not make anybody feel heard.

Todd Nesloney
The way you level up that idea is, one of the things we did on our campus was at the beginning of every year, I would send out a survey to my staff that said things like, who’s your emergency contact, t-shirt size, all that stuff we collect. But also, what’s your favorite salty snack?

Todd Nesloney
What’s your favorite sweet snack? What’s your favorite, if we had a local coffee shop, coffee from this coffee shop? If you’re gonna get a snack at a fast food restaurant, what restaurant are you gonna go to and what are you gonna get?

Todd Nesloney
And then we have something down here in the South that’s real big with teachers, and that’s called Sonic. That Sonic drink stop, I don’t know what it is about that Root 44 Diet Coke light ice with one squeeze of lime, but it’s like Oprah showed up at their classroom with a free car. Like it made people like break down in tears.

Todd Nesloney
And so we always had asked, what’s your favorite Sonic drink? So what we started doing on our campus was, instead of just bringing a random assortments of snacks and drinks, I would go to Sonic or to the store or whatever and grab that person’s favorite drink. So when I showed up at their door I’m like, hey I know it’s been

Todd Nesloney
rough this week, I can tell, I’ve heard it, I see it, I wanted to go and get you your drink at Sonic today and just tell you I hope your day gets better. And in that moment it has nothing to do with the drink and that’s what I try to help people see. It’s not about giving people free stuff because in that moment for the person that’s receiving their favorite drink, all that’s going through their head is, really, you thought of me uninitiated,

Todd Nesloney
and not only did you think of me, but you remembered something I shared with you about myself and brought something specific for me. That’s where you start to change culture slowly, is when people can see that you are invested in them, not invested in the whole.

Todd Nesloney
Because when you’re invested only in the whole, people go, oh, so if I don’t show up, nothing really changes because nobody even noticed I wasn’t here. And that’s how you get people who start to not work as hard,

Todd Nesloney
who start to take days off for no reason, who start to look for jobs elsewhere. My campus that I worked on, we could not offer the salary that districts 20 miles up the road from us could offer. We could not offer some of the resources.

Todd Nesloney
But when I hired people, I told them, what I can offer you is a place where I will work every day to fulfill all those needs you have as a classroom teacher and celebrate you and build you up and give you the resources. We’re not perfect. Nobody is. But I can promise you that we work hard to invest in our people here.

Todd Nesloney
And that was kind of one of the selling points. And so when I work with people in all kinds of leadership positions, and if you’re a classroom teacher listening, you are in a leadership position. So don’t think you aren’t, just because you don’t get paid, when some of those leaders up top get paid. People are still watching you, ears are still listening to you,

Todd Nesloney
you’re still leading, whether you want to or not. And so it’s all about how are you making others feel seen, valued and heard.

Sam Demma
Can you think of an experience where someone made you feel seen, valued and heard? And maybe you are not expecting it. And the reason I bring it up is because sometimes what seems insignificant to us can mean the absolute world to another human being because we have no idea what someone else is going through. In the context of a school, sometimes we do know if someone’s having a rough week, but sometimes the moments that have the greatest impact is when we have no idea

Sam Demma
that someone else is struggling and we go out of our way to try and make them feel seen and heard. And it could be something they remember for the rest of their lives. And I’m just curious, have you had a moment like that in your life that’s inspired you to do more of this work?

Todd Nesloney
You know, I can think of little things along the way. Something that’s always meant a lot to me is just the acknowledgement of my presence. I think sometimes when you spend a lot of time pouring into others, you also spend a lot of time trying not to be the focus of the moment or the space. And my personality, I’m super, super introverted. And people don’t believe that because they see me present, do all this other stuff, and I’m like,

Todd Nesloney
no, that’s the extrovert time, and then it’s gone. And then I need quiet time in the car or whatever. So when I enter spaces, I often shrink myself because it’s like I’m uncomfortable, I am just trying to pour into others, I’m not focusing on me, and so it’s very easy for me

Todd Nesloney
to leave some of those spaces and not feel like anybody even noticed I was there if I wasn’t trying to be the focus. But at the same time, one of the things I talk about in a lot of my messages is the power of a phone call. And how it’s a completely free resource that you have, but how we were doing it with our students. And then I realized, oh, my gosh, if things weren’t great for students, they will work great for the adults, too.

Todd Nesloney
And so I started this positive phone call thing with the adults on our campus. And my assistant principal was one of my first ones that I did. I called home to his mom with him there on speakerphone, celebrated him in front of his mom. He said it was the coolest experience just to have somebody you that’s in your life celebrate you in front of somebody that you love so much.

Todd Nesloney
And he’s like, as adults, people don’t do that. Like that’s a kid thing. And he said, I’ve never felt that emotion before. And so I talk about that in my messages about how I think all of us anytime we enter a space with more than three or four people we should pull out our phone and be like oh my god Julie you are freaking amazing who can I call right now to celebrate you in front

Todd Nesloney
of and I said people are gonna say oh you don’t have to do that and we trained our staff to be like no that’s what we do here let us love you and it takes a minute to two minutes of the time. So I was sharing about that at a presentation. Afterwards, I finished, everybody went and did their thing. I was talking to some people afterwards, and this gentleman came up and he was like, I really loved what you had to share about that phone call. He said, I want to do that for you now.

Todd Nesloney
Who can I call? And I was like, um, no, no, no, no. Like I talk about this. Like you don’t have to do this for me. Like no. And he was like, no, what do we say Todd?

Todd Nesloney
Let us love you. And I was like, and I got so uncomfortable. I was like, oh my God, like I talk about this, but I didn’t want people to do it to me. Like what, what the heck? This is where my introvertness like takes over. And I like, oh my God.

Todd Nesloney
And so I was like, I don’t know, I guess my wife. And so he was like, okay, call her up, put her on speakerphone. And so in the midst of this foyer, of this space, where all these people are coming and going, I call my wife and she’s like, hello.

Todd Nesloney
And I was like, you are on speakerphone, I am fine. I was like, because she knew I was at work, she’s like, what’s going on? And I was like, hey, somebody wanted to talk to you real quick. She’s like, okay, and he takes the phone and he was like, Hey, I just gotta say your husband just spoke to us. It was

Todd Nesloney
incredible. You are you’re so lucky to get to have him and we’re so thankful that you shared him with like all the stuff that I share, like how we did the phone calls. And I got so emotional in the moment, feeling that reciprocated what I had talked about doing for others and what we had done for years at our school. And as soon as we were done, I was just like, I didn’t know what to say. Like, I was like, thank you, that really meant a lot. And this was like, probably years ago. And I still think about it at least once a week. And anytime I talk about this, I had spent so much time pouring this idea into others and sharing that it not had always been reciprocated for me, which I wasn’t time pouring this idea into others and sharing that it not

Todd Nesloney
had always been reciprocated for me, which I wasn’t asking it to be. And so I don’t want that to be part of the story. But when it had been done, and I experienced it as well, unexpectedly, like not part of a, oh, yeah, this is Tuesday, who are we calling kind of thing. It was, it was game changing for me. And so I think that that was one of those moments that I was like, okay, yep, I got to

Todd Nesloney
experience it from this other side, instead of being the one experiencing it, the excitement from seeing the joy on someone else’s face. I got to feel that deep emotion of being celebrated and then having my wife call me hours later and be like, that was so cool. Like, why did you do that? Like, did you tell him to do that? And I was like, no, I was not going to listen to the president. I did not want that to be done. It was so uncomfortable, but I loved it at the same time.

Todd Nesloney
Like it’s so, and sometimes those really uncomfortable things, we do need to put ourselves through because it leads to so many great things down the road.

Sam Demma
I love the story.

Sam Demma
I hope it’s in one of your books. It sounds like you have so many phenomenal ideas, not only for educators, but this idea of celebrating folks with the people that matter most in their lives over the phone can be done at any point,

Sam Demma
any day with anybody. And I love it. If you could wave a magic wand and change, you know, certain things in education across the globe, are there any things you would start with or things that you think, if these three things shifted

Sam Demma
or these one or two things shifted in schools that would have a massive ripple effect? If so, what would those things be?

Todd Nesloney
Sam, do you have like three more hours? That’s a pretty big question. No, you know, there’s so many different elements and I feel like it’s shifting some of those, some of the things that we are dealing with are shifting continually.

Todd Nesloney
And with my role now in education, especially where I get to work with administrators across the state on a daily basis, in addition to all my speaking and consulting that I do worldwide, I get to hear a lot of different sides of what’s happening.

Todd Nesloney
And so I think the answer to your question is, I think there’s a big change I would make in the administration world, and there’s some big changes I would make in the teaching world. For teachers, specifically,

Todd Nesloney
we have to be trusted to do what we do. And I feel like there are a lot of things we could complain about in education right now, but to me, a lot of it boils down to we aren’t trusted to do our jobs. Whether that is the books we choose to read

Todd Nesloney
in the classroom, the discipline and social emotional things we put into play, the lesson planning, the curriculum, there’s so many elements that it’s like, you aren’t trusted to do this, so we’re gonna have this committee decide it for you, and then we’re gonna need you to write six pages

Todd Nesloney
over how you’re gonna do this, and then we’re gonna need you to grade it all, and then we’re gonna need you to meet for all these meetings, and then we’re gonna need you to have all the data that you’re gonna organize and write a report over as well, and it’s like, okay, when am I supposed to teach?

Todd Nesloney
Because, like, all the things you want from me suck out all the joy of why I got to do this, which was teaching. And so, I mean, we could go into the amount of discipline that we’re dealing with right now. We could go into lack of support from admin sometimes.

Todd Nesloney
There’s a lot of elements and I think everybody experiences the education profession a little bit differently, but I feel like there’s so much more celebration that needs to happen with those humans that are giving their lives up

Todd Nesloney
and often their family relationships, their friendships, to invest so deeply. Because I think that was an unexpected element for me when I became a teacher, was how deeply emotionally invested we get in your children.

Todd Nesloney
And I think that so many parents don’t realize that. And are there bad seed teachers? Yes, but there’s bad seeds in every profession. I mean, go to McDonald’s, there’s somebody there not doing their job. Go to the grocery store,

Todd Nesloney
there’s somebody there not doing their job. Like, that’s not unique to teaching and there’s always gonna be people who make poor decisions and that reflect on all of us. But when I think of administration, what I would say to teachers is, I thought I knew what an administrator did until I became an administrator. And I think administrators often get a bad rap because of decisions that they have to make or split second things or anything like that.

Todd Nesloney
And are there bad administrators? Yes. I mean, we just said there are bad people in every position everywhere. But on the whole, it is so much harder being an administrator than I ever imagined because of the weight that they carry that nobody else can help them carry. As a teacher, I can carry weight and lean on my colleagues, reach out to my supervisor, talk about brainstorm. As an administrator, like I have to deal with it or I have to go in to court and talk about a CPS case. I have to deal with parents berating me or staff upset or community. I mean, it’s a lot. And so for teachers listening, I would say, if you have an administrator that you

Todd Nesloney
respect at all, let them know how much you appreciate them. Because administrators spend at least 75% of their day being told what they’re not doing right or what they’re not good enough at. And that is so emotionally draining that when you have a great administrator, you better build them up and hug them and love them because they are using the 25% they have left to give you all of it. And so I think sometimes we forget about that.

Todd Nesloney
And this is not saying that teachers don’t also give, this is not a us versus them. We have to get out of that mindset. What I’m saying is, as a teacher, I swore I knew what that principal or assistant principal was doing.

Todd Nesloney
I swore I could get in that job and do things differently or better, and until I was actually in that position, I realized I had no idea. And I went to my principal after I was hired and was a principal for a year,

Todd Nesloney
I went to my previous principal and I apologized. And I told her, I said, I did not tell you thank you enough. Like I did not see these little things you were doing that I thought were just naturally happening. And now I realized you were behind them

Todd Nesloney
and you weren’t telling anybody because that’s not what you do. And so if you think, well, yeah, whatever Todd, I do know what my principal does, it’s nothing. Well, I can guarantee they do something, but think about when you were in college.

Todd Nesloney
You swore you knew what a teacher did, that’s why you wanted to become a teacher. And then you got that first teaching job and you realized everybody lied to you. There’s a thousand more things that you have to do as a teacher than anybody ever told you about.

Todd Nesloney
So just the idea, let’s spend more time celebrating. Let’s spend more time giving each other grace, and building those relationships and really connecting with each other. I think that that’s where we can begin to see a change. So to answer your question in a roundabout way,

Todd Nesloney
there’s a lot that we can change about education, and there always will be, because there’s a lot when you get hired by any group that you will wanna change. But I think for me, I wish teachers were more celebrated, I wish they were more respected,

Todd Nesloney
and I wish they were more trusted to do what they need to do. And I think if those things happen, we would see a lot of other things fall more easily into place.

Sam Demma
Trusted, respected, and celebrated. Todd, I appreciate your time on the show. It’s been a pleasure. I look forward to staying connected and hearing about the work you’re doing in your world. Where can educators listening to this find you or reach out and celebrate you

Sam Demma
if they’re inspired by this conversation today?

Todd Nesloney
Well, I think my easiest place is my website, which is just toddnesloney.com. You can just Google Todd Nesloney. If you spell it wrong, it’ll come up. There’s only so many ways you can spell Nesloney. But I am active on every social media platform. Most of them I’m Tech Ninja Todd or Todd Nesloney and I’ve got blogs, videos, books, all that kind of stuff on my site too.

Todd Nesloney
So definitely would love to connect.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Todd, keep up the great work and thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. to come on the show.

Todd Nesloney
Thanks, man.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Todd Nesloney

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 16, 2025 by Author Director of Education Education Student Success 0

Jeff Armour – Chief Operating Officer (COO) for the University Students’ Council (USC) at Western University

Jeff Armour – Chief Operating Officer (COO) for the University Students’ Council (USC) at Western University
About Jeff Armour

Jeff Armour is the Chief Operating Officer (COO) for the University Students’ Council (USC) at Western University.  Jeff graduated with a B.Sc. from Western University and after a few years of service overseeing the Wave and Spoke restaurant and bars on campus the USC encouraged Jeff to enroll in the Project Management program through Western’s Continuing Studies. Jeff was subsequently promoted to higher-level leadership position in the organization until ultimately landing at the COO role he currently holds.  Jeff also recently completed his EMBA at Ivey in July 2023.
 
Jeff has an extensive background in strategic planning, project management, operations restructuring and realignment, change management and financial strategy.
 
Jeff is married to Mindy and has three children, Kennedee, Ben and Brad.  He was born in BC but grew up in Peterborough, Jeff moved to London for school at Western and never left. 

Connect with Jeff Armour: Email | Linkedin | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

University Students’ Council (USC)
Western University
Ivey

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Jeff Armour. Jeff and I, we met each other a few years ago and we’ve stayed in touch. Personally, I’m super inspired by the Student Union, the USC at Western that they operate and that Jeff organizes and supports.

Sam Demma
And they do incredible things in the post-secondary space. And I’m honored to have Jeff on the show again. Jeff, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

Jeff Armour
Hey, thanks for inviting me. I guess the first one you can get lucky on, the second one means maybe I did something right. So that’s good.

Sam Demma
I really enjoyed the conversation. And I know this is gonna be just as valuable. There’s so many ways we could take this conversation and different things we could talk about. One of the things I’m most inspired about with your leadership at the USC is every team member seems like the most phenomenal human being. I have some of the most memorable experiences working with you and your staff. Where do you find these amazing human beings? How, like, where do they come from?

Jeff Armour
Wow, there’s two different answers there, I think. The one that’s like maybe the romantic answer is, I think setting a culture and having a purpose-driven organization attracts certain people. That, you know, the old adage at McDonald’s where they say there were smiles on the menu and those were free, and they were selling burgers and fries, but what they were really selling was smiles. I think people come here because they know we’re selling smiles to students. So although they might be a great accountant or a great productions person or a great clubs facilitator or even the people in HR, I think everybody rallies behind the idea that we’re trying to make students smile and enhance the educational experience, which is our mission statement.

Jeff Armour
So that’s the cheesy, super inspirational, like “I’ve got it all figured out” answer. The more, maybe more real answer is, I think there’s a certain amount of luck there. There’s a certain amount of strong leadership about, you know, what type of behaviors and what type of people we want to have here, which obviously changes things a little bit. And then the final piece of that is, when you’ve got something good going on, people like to talk to their friends or the other people they work with, and it spreads pretty quickly. So that’s lovely to see when you’re bringing other people into the fold of what you’re doing.

Sam Demma
I think when it comes to teams, the teams that operate really effectively have cohesion and they’re all unified by that single mission or purpose. And they voice their thoughts and their feelings and have these thoughtful disagreements so they can come up with the best ideas and move forward as a committed, I guess, team of people. How do you think about building that team and encouraging cohesion amongst members of the whole organization?

Jeff Armour
Yeah, well, I think you said it right at the outset, what is ultimately the goal? In a for-profit entity, you get a lot of infighting, I think, because the goal is making money. And sometimes to make money, you’ve got to step on some toes a little bit. And there’s some one-upmanship going on there in competition, which creates perhaps a better value or more profit when you have that sort of infighting.

Jeff Armour
When you’re centered on purpose, and as long as the leader can set a pretty clear goal of, I mean, I guess I just talked about putting smiles on students’ faces, everyone can get behind that. And the one-upmanship is not stepping on other people’s toes, but it’s more like improv: yes and, you know, as opposed to no, but maybe we could do something else. You get a lot of yes ands. “That’s a great idea. And you know what else would be good is this.” So it’s more like piling on in terms of contribution as opposed to ripping it down to try and one-up to make sure that, you know, you get the promotion or the bigger bonus.

Jeff Armour
That is definitely a major focus around here. Failure isn’t the negative. Not trying is the thing we don’t want to see. Just keep trying. You make a mistake, great, we won’t have to make that one again. That’s another one off the list. So it creates a good environment where everyone wants to jump in and see what other ideas they’ve got or, you know, kind of do the yes and.

Sam Demma
I was recently golfing with my godfather and he’s a big reader of books, and he told me to check out this book called Principles by Ray Dalio. And it was all about his life and work principles that he had operated on for a long time. And one of them was, “We celebrate mistakes but don’t tolerate not learning from them.” They had this software in his organization called the issue log. And every time you made a mistake, it was your responsibility to log it and to share it.

Sam Demma
So you put the date and the time and the mistake you made, and the next sync with the whole team, you would talk about it openly so that everyone could learn from the same mistake that just one person made, and then talk about how to avoid it moving forward. And when you’re talking about celebrating mistakes, that whole idea came to mind. How did you build that culture of celebrating mistakes? Is it something similar? Or like, what did you do?

Jeff Armour
It’s just funny because when I took on this role as the COO, formerly the general manager, we were very, very siloed. So no one wanted to talk about their mistakes, right? Despite the immense amount of value. And so because of that, there was no history written. And because of that, we were destined to make the same mistakes over and over again, which is exactly what we were doing. Which was creating a lot of frustration in people that wanted to be here and improve on it and build towards those smiles and great experiences.

Jeff Armour
It was like, “But why are we… like I get it, but why are we… like I’ll try. You’re paying me. Why are we doing the same thing again? I have this other idea. If we could have just turned that one thing and made it better.” And I’m kind of blowing it here, but when I first took on the role, there’s many things that I did, starting with, like, I reintroduced myself to the team. Like literally did a PowerPoint and said, like, “You’ve known me because I was here for probably 15 years before that and reintroduced myself to the team, my senior management team, and basically said, so, you know Jeff, but you don’t, you don’t know Jeff.”

Jeff Armour
The next thing I did was quietly without labeling it—because I like that—what did you call it? A log of…

Sam Demma
They called it the issues log.

Jeff Armour
Issues log. So I was regularly having meetings as I started to do some change management on the culture of our team—not change management like we’re getting into new products or whatever—it was more of culture change. And I would strategically every other meeting or every, you know, I tried to make it not rhythmic so people started to pick up on it. But I talk about, like, one of the mistakes I made early on. Like, “Oh, coming in this job, I know I, and I made this, I did this thing or whatever.” And what started to happen was they would laugh along with me. But not only that, contribute to ideas of how we could avoid that in the future.

Jeff Armour
And I say I’m kind of letting the lid off this because some of them will, if they hear this, will be like, “Wait, you were doing that on purpose?” Like, I don’t want to make it seem like it was contrived, but really, we weren’t talking about our failures. And when I say failures, I mean, like, it’s a chance to learn or otherwise. So instead, what we would do is someone who you would think would have no opinion on an item—let’s say it was something that we made a mistake in budget—and then someone who’s nowhere near the budget process would be like, “Why didn’t you just ask us about what we were going to… like, that would have helped you avoid that mistake three months later.”

Jeff Armour
And I was like, “Oh, that’s… you know, write it down. Then you make sure you follow up.” Then you start to… and suddenly people can see that change and improvement on mistakes. But not only that, subconsciously, they’re thinking, it’s OK if I bring up a mistake I made. Maybe other people have good ideas because no one’s ever asked me about the budget thing. And now I was able to contribute to a positive outcome, right? It’s like teaching. It’s like a learned behavior that you’re not explicitly teaching them about. Because if I came out and said, “We’re going to…,” they’d be like, “Oh, great. He’s read some books, and he’s trying to… whatever.” Instead, it was like mimicking the behaviors I wanted to see the entire corporation do, like everybody, right down to the person who’s cutting the bagel being like, “Why do we cut the bagels before the person orders it? Like, it takes three seconds, and if we had one of these little machines, we could just…” Great, let’s hear about that.

Jeff Armour
And no one should have their feelings hurt. You should have your feelings hurt if you’re not listening, or you continue to not learn from it—not by not trying, right? It’s just the effort that counts. So the reason I was smiling when you asked the question is because it’s like, “Oh, I’m going to have to tell them the truth, and it’s going to probably be a little whistleblower here on my behaviors,” but yeah.

Sam Demma
Well, I think at the end of the day, it also gives other people permission, like you said, to voice their mistakes. Like you’re actually, as the leader, leading with vulnerability by saying, “Here’s a mistake I made.” And that vulnerability you’re leading with is allowing other people at the table to say, “Hey, it’s OK to be vulnerable.”

Sam Demma
Because if Jeff’s leading us and Jeff’s being vulnerable, so can I. Do you think it’s really important that you did that first? Like if you didn’t share, do you think other people would have shared, or would it have taken a much longer time for that to unfold?

Jeff Armour
I think, yeah, it definitely would have taken longer for it to unfold. Yeah, that’s… I think that’s fair to say. I think I’ve also always just been a person that, like, if I’m going to ask you to do it, I better do it first. Like literally in, like, physical actions. Like if I’m telling you to move that pile of dirt over there, I better be the first person to put the shovel in the ground and, like, to help move the dirt. And then, you know, I always prefer when people that I’m working with or that, you know, are trying to buy into something to be like, “Hey, I’ve got this dirt thing. Why don’t you go over there and start to build that wall so then I can come over and paint,” you know, or otherwise.

Jeff Armour
Like once they can see why they’re doing something and how they fit into the bigger picture, to start to push leadership or someone who’s helping them into where they should be is way better than saying, “I’m in leadership. Do as I say and, like, figure it out on your own.” I don’t know, it just feels like that’s… I don’t know, yucky, kind of condescending, or I don’t know, more like a boss, right?

Sam Demma
Do you trust your intuition and gut on a lot of the decisions you make, or do you have principles or, like, certain guardrails that you think about before you make a decision?

Jeff Armour
Yeah. I’m learning to trust that more.

Sam Demma
Yeah.

Jeff Armour
Here I am at my age now, where I’m at in my career. And we actually, just last week, did StrengthsFinder with the senior leadership team here, the senior managers we’ve got. And my strengths, which make me uncomfortable—and I don’t think I’m sharing that out of turn—they make me uncomfortable because they’re kind of like traditional, hard strengths I’m not super comfortable with.

Jeff Armour
However, because of that, I haven’t really trusted it in the past, which I think has made me more of an authentic leader. Like that kind of… Are you familiar with the Gallup StrengthsFinder stuff?

Sam Demma
I don’t know too much about it, other than it’s like similar to other personality tests to figure out how people can deal with one another, understand how they operate. That’s why—but I could be wrong.

Jeff Armour
No, no, that’s basically it. I mean, the only real big difference is it’s a Gallup-founded test, which means there’s like a hundred billion data points that Gallup has because they do surveys all the time. So it’s like really… And it’s shocking how close it is. It’s amazing insights. So yeah, to get back to the question of, like, do I trust it? I don’t, but I think that’s actually what makes me good.

Jeff Armour
I’m naturally a pessimist with a very strong optimistic outlook. I can see the negative side, but I’m always like, there’s this terrible thing that could happen, but you know what? It’s going to be awesome. So I’m literally built to prepare for the worst and plan for the best. Like it’s ingrained in my DNA to actually do that. So yeah, I don’t really trust… I really trust the people that are around me. If I’m half-hearted into something or they’re not sure if I’m sure, they’ll either give me the resolve or push me a little bit to get to that solid place because I think they trust my instincts more than I trust my own.

Sam Demma
It’s probably not a good answer, but I mean, that’s the truth—is I’m a little cautious with my gut.

Jeff Armour
I think that that’s so important. I think it’s one of the reasons why the organization, the USC, succeeds because if you do just consistently put your eggs in one basket and you feel like, “This is the best decision ever, we’re doing the right thing,” and you don’t ever think, “Well, what if we could be wrong?” you might have some blind spots, and you overcommit too many times. Things can fall apart. Who do you ask, or, like, how do you ask when you have those thoughts?

Jeff Armour
I think the best part about it now, where we’re at, initially I had sort of a small group of people that knew me and knew who I was that I could be not just vulnerable with, but, like, weak. Quite literally just be like, “This is tough.” And early on in the job, there were several things that tested my resolve. And then, you know, middle of the bell curve was COVID, which again, tested things.

Jeff Armour
And in the first chat we had, we talked about my decision to bring everybody back in full. There was no hybrid, which now, I guess, it’s been two years since we did that podcast, I think, or a year or whatever. It’s just showing in droves how great the culture is here. And there’s no group at home and group at work and all of that. Great for… we’re really, like, for the listeners here, we’re really an in-person impact. Like the student walks into your office and says, “Hey, I need some help.” Really hard to schedule a Zoom with people when they’re just walking in. You know, you can’t predict when it’s going to happen. It’s kind of like, you know…

Jeff Armour
So yeah, that’s sort of when I started to realize that my gut instinct was probably pretty strong because I ask a lot of questions. I’m, I think, a good listener. I know where we want to go to. And so what happens is every interaction I have, whether it’s just walking through the halls or otherwise, goes into my brain, unfortunately. It doesn’t add stress to me, but it adds data points. And those data points help me formulate an opinion that makes my gut call a little bit stronger.

Jeff Armour
And this is all stuff that I’ve learned over the last, probably even like last two months as we’ve really gotten into the StrengthsFinder stuff and realized that that is the way I operate. I used to be afraid of it because I didn’t understand it. I didn’t understand where that gut… like, nobody just has gut instincts like that. The gut instinct comes from like listening and actively challenging, but also being a pessimist and looking out for the worst, but also hoping for the best. So all those things come together to make it, yeah, what I use.

Jeff Armour
Small group initially, and now I don’t even have to ask for opinions when I’m looking at making a decision or there’s something that’s challenging the group. Everyone feels very comfortable walking into my door and just being like, “Hey, I know this is a problem we’ve got, and I wonder if this would help. I found this article, and here you go. Do you want to read it?” And then you can go even deeper, like, “Oh, interesting, what kind of triggered you? Like, what made you resonate with this challenge that we’re facing?” And it’s like, “Well, I think it’s really important because I see every single day X, Y, and Z.” More data points to go in for the analytical, more information, more comfort with talking to what, in a traditional model, would be like the leadership.

Jeff Armour
And I use that loosely. Because I don’t necessarily believe in, like, there’s got to be one boss. I believe, like, the hive mind works to a certain extent, but at some point, someone has to make a decision, and I get that, right? So I really encourage that. And I think the open-door policy and willingness to listen, and not being afraid that someone has a different opinion than I do, and that means I’m not going to make a decision because they differ with it. I’m great with that because it’s just more data points, right?

Sam Demma
I mean, you’re sharing principles with me right now, like, you know, plan for the worst, but expect the best. The open-door policy, gather information, you know, be a good listener to make the best-informed decision. If I was to chat with members of the USC, other people on the team, and sit them down and say, “What does Jeff say to you most often?” Like, if you were to tell me, “These are Jeff’s, like, maybe not just Jeff’s, but these are the USC’s values or principles and things that we hear over and over and over again,” what are a few of those things or some that stick out in your mind that you think they’d share with me?

Jeff Armour
Yeah, well, some are very USC-specific, that were student-led. Yep. Which, that’s a value we hold—that at the end of the day, there should be a student at the table. I’m not just talking about the president—obviously, the president—but like a student. So if you’re making decisions around clubs, there should be members from the club system involved in making that decision, right? Because they know better than we do.

Jeff Armour
That’s the best way to protect against aging out in an organization that essentially—we’re vampire keepers. The vampires stay 22, 20 years old, and we get older and older, and they stay the same age, right? So the best way to insulate against that is to get as many of them around the table to make the decisions and help you with it. So that’s a big principle that used to scare us. Any student association, I think, would be scared because it’s like, “Wow, I personally am getting out of touch with what that generation wants.” Right? I don’t know what skibbity bathwater means. I don’t understand. Like, it was a couple of years ago.

Jeff Armour
But I don’t have to keep up with that. And the reason I know those words is because there are students around me all the time who are open to sharing with me, just like the clubs’ decision, just like if there’s something that’s going on around designing our menu. Don’t ask someone who’s 45 what they want on the menu because they want nachos and chicken wings, which I definitely want. But maybe the bowls are really hot, or maybe having halal chicken is really important to a large chunk of our… So all those things—students around the table. That’s the USC sort of thing—is that we’re student-led, OK?

Jeff Armour
For me personally, there are two things that are very important, and that is trying. I want to see people trying all the time because I believe that’s where the good stuff happens. Keep trying. I’ve already said it to you earlier on in the interview. You can see that they will hear that. And then from the management leadership realm, it’s delegate, right? Great. You’re great at that. Delegate it. Because I’ve got other stuff that I want to delegate to you. Delegate, delegate.

Sam Demma
And what would be the fear with delegating?

Jeff Armour
That they’re not going to do a good job, or it’s going to get done wrong.

Sam Demma
I still feel it. How do you—like, tell me more.

Jeff Armour
And so then they’re going to… Not just you making mistakes, you’re afraid to try, the people you’re delegating to are going to make a mistake, and you’re going to have to talk to them about that mistake. And not a lot of people have that type of ability to have a restorative, generative conversation with someone who’s made a mistake because they’re feeling bad, right?

Sam Demma
Yep.

Jeff Armour
You feel like you missed a step because you said they did fail. But changing the paradigm of that into a conversation where it’s like, “What did we learn?” And going back to the thing I did on, like, the second week, where I talked about the thing that I failed on—try and mimic that. Like, “Let’s get better together.” That’s a hard thing for people in general to—I mean, it sounds really easy here. I’m, you know, 20 minutes into the podcast or whatever, but like, it’s not easy to do.

Jeff Armour
Those are the conversations. That’s the good stuff in there—is when you can get someone, I think, like I’m trying to do, to press upon people, like, you know, go ahead and make mistakes, and then go and encourage the people that report to you to make mistakes, and then support them in it, right? Those are probably the two things that, like, is a Jeff-ism. And then the one thing is the USC thing—it’s like student-led is a big, important thing.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. The idea of delegation is something that’s very real for me right now. And I’m sure a lot of the school divisions that I serve and support, their leadership teams delegate a lot. And I’ve been working with an assistant for a little while, and I’ve struggled with the delegation situation.

Sam Demma
And I have the best friggin’ team in the world. When things are going great, it’s her. She’s rocking it, you know, and things are not going great, it’s because I’m in my head, and I’m like not sitting in my best position and being a good leader. How did you build that skill yourself? Was it just the repetition of those types of conversations, or what did you find helpful?

Jeff Armour
I think… geez, that’s a great question. I don’t know where that started or when I started to do that. It might have been—we talked about it in the first one, I’m sorry if I’m repeating a little bit—the construction realm.

Sam Demma
Yes.

Jeff Armour
Right, where I had a high expectation of quality, right? And so then what I would do is—funny story, during COVID, we’re at home, and I quickly realized that the school was okay. Everybody was doing the best they could, just homeschooling and all the rest, but the kids weren’t getting the stimulation necessarily at the level that at least my children needed, which was like, “What am I learning that’s new, and how am I interacting with someone getting immediate feedback on whether it’s going well or not?”

Jeff Armour
So for each child, I had a different little thing that I would do with them. Like my youngest, for example, I taught him literally how to make coffee. Like we have a brewer at home where he would put the grind in. So he’s seven years old, eight years old—which is… that’s it. There’s hot water. You got to fill the water up, you got to hit the right buttons, and, you know, make sure it’s not coming out too hard, you know, too stiff or otherwise, it’s the right mix. Taught him how to do it, taught him where the cream was, and to put a little bit of this in and that sort of thing.

Jeff Armour
And so I would just go down, turn my Zoom on at 9:00 a.m., 8:00 a.m., whenever the meeting was, and get into it. And so people started to see this seven, eight-year-old bringing me a coffee. And to them, it was like, “What the… what are you doing to him?” He still talks about it today. He still talks about being trusted to do something for Dad, learning how to do it.

Jeff Armour
And he started to get better at it, right? And started to measure the sugar as opposed to just pouring in the sugar and starting to whatever, and then reinforcing that with feedback right away. “That might have been your best one yet. Surprising, because I normally like a lot of cream, but there wasn’t as much, and I didn’t put as much in this time,” right? And the reward that comes from delegation and feedback, positive or negative, and how that fills up the human spirit to continue to try—there’s that word again—I think is an algorithm, a formula that feeds the human soul that makes them want to even do more and more and more, right?

Jeff Armour
Because then the next question was, you know, “Do you want some eggs? Do you want to do this?” And suddenly it starts to grow. And, you know, some people may look at it like, “I was just happy my kid was getting through the day. This was a terrible time for everyone.” I’m like, “Here’s a chance for them—for me—to engage with them as their parent, but also for them to learn and get confident doing things that they wouldn’t normally ever do.” Same principles apply at work. Same thing applied at the construction job.

Jeff Armour
I think that delegation gives the opportunity to fail safely, grow as a team, and, on top of that, have good conversations about what the ultimate why is. Like, where are we going here? Why does Dad want a coffee in the morning? He has a coffee every morning, and if I can do that for him, he can get to work and get on the Zoom later. He might be able to spend more time with me in the morning doing whatever. And those conversations as well. There’s so much good stuff that comes from delegating, in my opinion.

Jeff Armour
It’s scary though, right? Like you’re experiencing it, to your point of, like, “Okay, well…” And also there’s the—I don’t know if you feel guilt about it as well, delegating a little bit.

Sam Demma
I do sometimes feel like it’s irresponsible of me to say, “You do that, not you do this, but can you please help with this?” And it makes me feel… it does make me feel a little guilty, yeah.

Jeff Armour
Because, well, from a selfish perspective, the time it took you to ask, “Hey, I want to move that one o’clock to a two o’clock,” you could have just done it, right? And then you think about how that person is that sees you move it and does it. And suddenly that person has committed their working life to you and being good for you. And suddenly it’s like, “Oh, like, maybe I did that wrong.” And maybe you didn’t catch it because you did it in a moment.

Jeff Armour
But the negative side of not delegating and making sure that that person’s feeling like they’re reaffirmed can also be super damaging. Like it goes both ways. And we don’t think about it that way because we don’t want to bother anyone. I don’t know if that’s Canadian or if that’s just general—the entire world can’t be the Mad Men series where it’s like, “Get me a sandwich.” But there’s some value in actual delegation of a task with some feedback, and I think it’s super important.

Sam Demma
When you are delegating a task, are you front-loading the conversation with “Here’s why”? Like, you know, when you give the example of your son making the coffee, that conversation around “Here’s why we do this” is very helpful because when someone knows why you’re giving them a task and why it matters and it’s important, it’s going to encourage them to feel good about the work they’re doing because it’s serving the greater purpose. But when do you have those conversations in the delegation process?

Jeff Armour
Well, if it’s not obvious, like at the outset—which has become more prevalent here anyways—people will see an opportunity, and often they’re like, “Hey, wouldn’t it be great if I could just do this thing for you, and then you wouldn’t be tied up with it, and we can… you could do that.” That’s happening more and more. But if that isn’t the case, and I’m like, “Hey, so I’ve been thinking about something, and one thing I noticed, you’re way more organized than I am in terms of getting in quicker to do this and that. What’s your bandwidth like right now? Because I think if you can do this thing, that would help me do that thing, and then the two of us would have a much better day. But let’s talk about it,” because getting them to opt into doing the thing is always better.

Jeff Armour
That being said, I think there’s enough understanding and trust in the tank right now that if I was like, “Hey, can you send me those things, and can you do this and this,” people would be like, “100%,” right? Because they know it’s not just because I’m randomly doing whatever. So there’s the two sides of it. It’s like them opting into it but also then building the trust that you’re not asking them to do something that is just, you know, flippant, I guess, is the word. That comes from, like, following up and saying, “Hey, I know I asked you really quickly about putting it in there. Thank you so much because I was running that meeting, and when I got there, I could just open it up and it was there, and it made me better prepared. So I appreciate it.”

Sam Demma
That’s amazing, Jeff. I love this whole conversation. I think we could go on for hours, but I want to respect your time. Thank you so much for your wisdom, your vulnerability, and just sharing your thoughts on leadership, delegation, and the culture you’ve built at the USC. It’s inspiring. I can’t wait to share this conversation with others, and I look forward to doing it again. Maybe we’ll have a yearly tradition.

Jeff Armour
Thanks so much, Sam. It’s always a pleasure to chat. These conversations challenge my thinking a little bit because sometimes I don’t know why I do things, but I love what I do, and I love making a difference in other people’s lives through sort of giving bits of myself and the opportunity for them to be the best selves that they can be. It’s super rewarding.

Sam Demma
Well, you’re doing it, so keep it up.

Jeff Armour
Thanks.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 2, 2025 by Chief Operating Officer Education 0

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