February 2025

Sean Kenney – Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education

Sean Kenney – Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education
About Sean Kenney

Sean Kenney is the director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Centre for Education and the Coordinator for Community Learning, International Services, and Family of School Supervisor. Previous to his current role, he has been a dynamic classroom teacher, vice principal, and principal spanning 30 years in Manitoba, Quebec, and his home province of Nova Scotia. Although desperately missing being in a school each day working with students, he is broadening his impact within his regional of 6200 students.

Sean has always engaged students in thoughtful and meaningful ways while having a sharp focus on equitable practices that are safe and inclusive of everyone in his school community. Each year he welcomes over 250 students from at least 20 different countries into his schools and communities while serving as their custodian and ensuring that they have a rich Nova Scotian experience. 

Connect with Sean Kenney: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Nova Scotia International Student Program

Tri-County Regional Centre for Education

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by Sean Kenney, the Director for the Nova Scotia International Student Program in the Tri-County Regional Center for Education and the Coordinator for Community Living of International Services and Family of School Supervisor. But he’s been in education for a long time in Manitoba, in Quebec, in Nova Scotia. He works with international students from all over the world and I’m so grateful to have him on the show here today. Sean, thank you so much for taking the time to be here.

Sean Kenney
Thanks so much, Sam. I appreciate the invitation.

Sam Demma
Where in the world are you tuning in from today?

Sean Kenney
That’s a great question. Most of my work is centered in Southwest Nova Scotia, so my office is in Yarmouth, one of the small towns in the southwest portion of the province. That’s where I am right now. However, some of my work takes me different areas of the world, including different parts of Canada where I first met you at the CAPSI conference in Niagara Falls last spring. Yeah, recently for work purposes I’ve traveled to Thailand and Vietnam for a couple weeks meeting with prospective students, partners, and agencies through our international student program.

Sam Demma
When young people, aspiring educators, think about education, most of the time they think about teaching in the classroom or being a principal of a local school, not traveling the globe recruiting students to come to Canada and to provide them with a home away from home and a life-changing experience. At what point in your own educational journey did you uncover international education, and how did you get involved?

Sean Kenney
That’s a great question. Many moons ago, you alluded to the fact that I’ve been in different provinces. And I began education, oh, 34, 35 years ago now, when I went to teacher’s college. So it’s been some time.

Sean Kenney
And at that time, I was really passionate thinking, okay, I’m going to be the, you know, a great math teacher. And that was my singular focus. And truth be told, I’ve taught a number of other subjects other than math. Over those years, you know, I’ve held different roles as a teacher from grade seven through 12. There’s been math, there’s been science, industrial arts, leadership, outdoor ed, you name it. You kind of try some different things. But then being a teacher and vice principal, I was first acquainted with the International Student Program in that regard at one of my previous schools in Shelburne County, Barrington High. We’d have a number of students come in and that was my first introduction to that. So over the course of the last 15 to 20 years, I’ve had kind of an arm’s length support of the International Student Program. During that time, I’ve got to meet a number of great students from all over the world. And then, as we started to develop programs in schools where we’re able to create a bigger network of host families, we were able to welcome more students.

Sean Kenney
And in doing so, we were able to put in a number of different programs in place to help support those students. It was a few years ago, the opportunity came up where the previous director for the International Student Program in our region took a job change. And I thought, okay, I’ve been a leader from a number of different schools and I’ve always felt for me personally, kind of four to six years is that kind of window where it’s important for the organization and the person to seek new opportunities and change. It’s good for everyone that we continue growth through taking new opportunities. So I said, okay, let me give this a try. And Sam, my eyes were blown wide open because certainly from this lens and the supporting role that I’ve got, I didn’t realize all that was involved in the International Student Program, having been a teacher, vice principal, and principal. Certainly, it’s been very alarming and enlightening to see all that’s involved in welcoming all these students in our program. We’ve actually got one of the most esteemed public school, high school programs in Canada.

Sean Kenney
It’s certainly well respected across the country. We’ve welcomed over 25,000 students across 70 different schools in Nova Scotia. In my particular region, we normally bring 200-250 students. Some will be here for as short as four weeks and some will be here for the full year. Some actually begin in grade 7, 8, 9 and they’ll continue for three or four years to graduate. It’s really exciting, the opportunities. And certainly, as you get to travel and meet different agents and partners, you get to see how my starting role 35 years ago as a math teacher has certainly changed greatly. However, not losing sight of the fact that we’re providing great educational experiences, not just for our Canadian students, but also welcoming students from so many different countries.

Sam Demma
For an educator listening to this, who’s aspiring to get into a school, but has never thought or considered about international education as a way they could provide an exceptional experience for young people and also make a contribution in slightly different ways.

Sam Demma
What are some of those services you provide or things you do on a day-to-day basis to paint a little bit of a picture for the role?

Sean Kenney
Yeah, that’s a great question. So I see my role right now within our region as two, you know, it’s, it’s, there’s many different things on my platter of responsibilities. And one of them is really specific around our 150 international students that are part of our program. a more rural way of life. And then there’s a lot of people coming from other countries and immigrating and moving into our communities. So all of our teachers and staff in all schools

Sean Kenney
have been forced to think of things in a different way, as far as a culturally responsive approach in welcoming all of our students and all of the different cultures in our schools. Previous to COVID, quite honestly, a number of our schools would have had limited experience to people from other countries unless it was through the International Student Program. In our region and across the province, that has traditionally been from grades 7 to 12. So a lot of our elementary schools didn’t have those opportunities. So when we think of those best teaching practices and school practices and creating welcoming schools, they were often limited to junior and senior highs. eyes. So now within our region and across the province, and I would guess across the whole country, this has become a wider focus for every educator.

Sam Demma
When you think about your journey in education and international education, who comes to mind as mentors or folks that have helped you and supported you in your professional and personal development? Yeah, that’s a great question. So, the founder and forefather of the Nova Scotia International Student Program was by the name of Paul Millman, and he’s recently moved on over the last couple of years to take on new ventures. So, certainly I was introduced to him while I was still a vice principal about 12 years ago at a conference in a little town named DeBert. And at that time, they brought together a number of administrators. So watching him and his passion from a distance has certainly been incredible.

Sean Kenney
As I’ve become part of the program, I get to see his far-reaching impact and passion and how he’s instilled that on every single… People are living and breathing the program. I think sometimes we take for granted that, you know, a regular classroom, it ends at three o’clock. Well, the International Student Program, it’s a 24-7, 365-day gig where we’ve got the responsibility for that incredible school experience, but as well, we run our own homestead. So it’s creating a network of quality families that welcome students in for this intercultural exchange that’s so rich.

Sean Kenney
So within our program, I’ve been mentored by a friend and colleague, someone actually oddly enough I knew back at Teachers College 35 years ago, and he and I have had similar kind of lived experiences professionally where, you know, he left Teachers College in the mid-90s, became a teacher, moved, you know, different opportunities. Sometimes opportunities present themselves to you by suggestion. People are thinking, hey, there’s an opportunity here, and I think you might be able to fill this need right now. And I think that’s often how people might step into a leadership role in education, especially when it comes to that of a vice principal. I don’t know that many people go in education thinking, wow, one day I’d love to be a VP or a principal. It kind of happens out of curiosity and just different lived experience where you keep building on different things. So he’s been a wonderful mentor as well as our entire program with this particular journey over the past two and a half years.

Sam Demma
What did those folks do for you that had the greatest impact?

Sean Kenney
I think when you bring varied experiences to a new role and set of responsibilities, it’s around validating some of those curiosities, thinking, okay, is this kind of what’s expected? Am I heading in the right direction. He would provide a number of suggestions to me and he was always there for support when I needed.

Sean Kenney
There’s a lot of text messages and emails, hey, in this situation, it’s new for me but probably not for you. This is what I’m kind of talking through those. Because when you’re dealing with, you know, when you’re dealing with humans, man, there can be some high emotions, big emotions, and you definitely want to make sure you get things right. There’s no playbook that’s black and white. We live in the gray when we’re supporting our kids and families, right?

Sam Demma
I think the unique thing about having a mentor who’s been working in a similar field for such a long period of time, is like you mentioned, it may be new for you, but for them, it could be something they’ve experienced dozens or hundreds of times. And there’s a phenomenal book by a guy named Ray Dalio called Principles, and he talked about a mentor that he had in the book, and he would bring him his challenges, and the mentor would say, oh, it’s just another one of those.

Sam Demma
He categorized a lot of his challenges into buckets of things that his mentor had experienced in the past. And even if they haven’t experienced it based on the breadth of their whole experience, they can probably help make a good suggestion even if they’ve never faced something like that before themselves. You said that international education is 24-7.

Sam Demma
It doesn’t end at three o’clock. I think it takes a pretty special human to dedicate their life to supporting young people From 8 a.m. To 3 p.m. Let alone in a position where it seems like it never stops Did you have any experiences growing up that? Inspired you to want to help kids and work with young people or why did you choose this work? Well, it was the fame and fortune. I was looking for I think it’s a calling. People who want to help and be in a helping field, they find their way there. So for me, I think of a couple of pivotal moments and actually they both happened for me as a student when I moved schools. My family moved schools when I was in grade six. So in Nova Scotia, many of our elementary schools go until grade six. So it was kind of a big deal being the oldest of three boys. We ended up moving to this small rural community and I was like, wow, this is really different. Um, and the teacher there kind of, she saw things in me that I didn’t really see in myself at that time. Right. And then it happened again in grade 10 when I arrived at the high school, first year in a new school and kind of had a similar experience. So I thought, okay, these people, um, are suggesting that I might be a great in school one day. And for me, I found math easier than many of the other subjects.

Sean Kenney
So, between that and enjoying sports, certainly enjoyed sports playing as a child when I realized I was far from a pro ball player, I was never going to be a professional athlete. Later in high school, I can’t remember if it was, must have been the summer of grade 11, a friend, me and one of my friends, we ended up coaching a minor ball team and working with the little league kids at that time would have been five, six, seven. It was fun.

Sean Kenney
And I think that kind of was the hook. It’s one of those things that if you enjoy working with kids, you know, just one of those things. With working with kids, every day there’s something new. So you might get some of those moments, but there’s so many things like, wow, that’s different.

Sean Kenney
So I think always being curious, willing to learn and open to new opportunities, that’s what I love about working with kids. There’s never a dull moment. That’s in transitioning to this role, it’s a little different, right?

Sean Kenney
Having been a principal, I was there every day with 575 students every day. So you get to interact all day long, you know, and this one here, working more regionally based, it’s a little different as far as your impact and influence because you don’t get to see every student every day, which is something I had desperately missed, but I’m adjusting to, right? Finding other ways to kind of get to see them.

Sam Demma
There’s unique opportunities in every field, in every, I believe, in every vocation, every job. I think one of the unique opportunities in the work you’re doing now is you’re creating homes away from a home for lots of kids who these experiences could be life changing and and when you think about the students that you’ve served over the years in international education, is there a story of a student that might come to mind right now who was really nervous and shy and maybe even struggling at the start of their international experience but by the end, we’re emailing you, mister Kenny, you’re not gonna believe this. Yeah. And if there isn’t a specific email, that’s okay too. But if there’s a story, I would love for you to share it because there’s an educator listening to this that’s doubting if they’re making a difference. And I think it’s stories like that that really remind them to keep showing up.

Sean Kenney
Yeah, so having been a principal for a number of years, right? And I’ve had the luxury of working in grade primary to 12 schools. And I always shared with my staff, listen, different grade levels have different levels of gratitude.

Sean Kenney
Some are time delayed. Some are like that email that you’re going to delay send. So in elementary schools, gratitude is daily. You get hugs and kisses and snot on your pants from the hugs, right? So you feel that love every day. In high school, those major milestones, the proms, the graduations, when kids are leaving, you get a lot more gratitude. Middle school, it’s delayed, right? So some, you feel that love, right? And you know that you’re making that difference, but for some, they come back. So from my experiences, I’ve had a number of students that are like, man, I just want to talk to you. I really appreciate that you never gave up on me, even though I didn’t deserve that unconditional positive regard or love that you were given. Because sometimes at that time when I was in grade 7 or 8, I was 13, 14, I wasn’t nice. I wasn’t nice to you. I wasn’t nice to other people around me. I just wasn’t nice to myself. So it’s kind of keeping that in mind. With that said, it’s not lost on me the great responsibility that we have in making sure when our students come as directors, we all serve as the legal custodian. So I take them on as my kids. And one of the great responsibilities that I see is taking care of that homestay part, making sure that we vet the families in an appropriate way so that I’m convinced that if my kids were in another country, my own children, I’ve got two that are 17 and 19, am I comfortable with my kids staying in that home thousands of kilometers away? So we’ve been investing time and energy in making sure that all of our homestay families have a common vision of what it is to take care of our kids while they’re here in Nova Scotia. And unfortunately at times I’ve had to make tough decisions where we’ve had to part ways on that hosting relationship. And that’s really difficult to do because parents are sending their kids to Nova Scotia or Canada hoping for a certain experience and many of them will share. And the great thing is, Sam, I’m Sean now, I’m not Mr. Kenny, which is a great thing.

Sean Kenney
In the international community, I don’t have to be Mr. Kenney. I love it. So they come and they say, Sean, this is just like the Hollywood movies, right? When they think of high school, what’s high school like? Well, North American high school is very different than it is in Turkey or Germany or, you know, pick a country, Japan, South Korea, any of the countries that we host from. So, yeah, it’s that responsibility. And we do a great job making sure we transition the students in. So we have a big team of people, whether it’s our home state coordinators, our program managers, we have school ambassadors, which is a wonderful program. They’re Canadian students in every one of our high schools that are trained to help welcome students as they arrive and help them transition through all of their firsts that happen during their stay.

Sean Kenney
So yeah, there’s a lot of stories where kids come, they’re really scared, sometimes they experience culture shock. I’ve really enjoyed my travels with students when I pick them up from the airport and help kind of relieve their concerns. It’s a three, three and a half hour drive from Halifax Airport down to Yeremeth.

Sean Kenney
So if I’ve got three or four students brand new to Canada, we have nice chats coming back and forth.

Sam Demma
When you think about building relationships and having a positive impact in the life of a young person, have you gotten any advice that you think would be worth sharing with some of the educators that are listening right now that might just be starting to work with youth and wanna make a big difference. Like what advice would you share with them that you’ve received at points in your career that you thought were helpful?

Sean Kenney
There’s a lot of different ones. So one of my mentors as a school-based administrator, he was my principal while I was his vice principal for seven years together. And one of the piece of advice he shared was, no matter what the situation is, when you’re speaking with a child, speak to them as if their parents are sitting in the room with you. Show them the same care and concern you would. You can’t be two different people, and that’s really stuck with me.

Sean Kenney
And some of our CRP work in our region, Shrocky Holly, he talks about VABing, which is the validating, affirming, building, bridging. So, I mean, that’s all, it’s about outrageous love, right? So, that’s kind of the part that keeps us going as educators and relationships are everything.

Sean Kenney
Programs, they come and go. Those are kind of the what’s. The why’s and who’s are kind of that vision of purpose. What is your purpose? And who, who’s it all about? Getting to know those kids, getting to know your staff, getting to know your families and having relationships. Certainly there are some time obstacles and barriers, but that is by far the most important thing. And certainly when I think of some of the work that you share in your presentation, it’s around kind of getting to know those kids so that you can help them raise their ceiling of expectations or goals, dreaming big, think big, and then go for it daily with small, reasonable steps. And that’s certainly what resonated with me in the work that we do. And certainly, Sam, I’m looking forward to bringing you to the East Coast here, hopefully in the next school year, so that we can get you to help bring your message, because certainly I think it would resonate with all of our students.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it, Sean. And I’m so grateful that we were able to share some time on the podcast. I know there’s a lot of educators listening to this who have not even considered or thought about international education as a way they can make a difference and express their own passions for working with young people. I wish you nothing but success in all of your upcoming travels. And if there is someone listening to this that wants to touch base with you, reach out, share some delayed gratitude or ask a question, what would be the best way for them to touch base with you?

Sean Kenney
Yeah, so I’m sure on the bio of this podcast, you’ll share that, but my email is sean.kenney at tcrce.ca. Certainly they can look me up on LinkedIn, Facebook, or even Instagram, certainly, even WhatsApp. So I’m certainly willing and able to help answer any questions or even just chat with anyone who’s kind of curious about this because certainly I didn’t think that my educational journey that started 35 years ago would end up in international education right now. And it’s certainly a very wide field and certainly a niche part of public schools.

Sam Demma
Well, one thing, if you’re listening to this right now and you do want to reach out, just don’t call him Mr. Kenney, refer to him as Sean or else you’ll not get a response.

Sean Kenney
That’s definitely one of the top 20 great things about this new role.

Sam Demma
Sean, thank you so much for taking the time. This is awesome. Keep up the great work.

Sean Kenney
Appreciate it, Sam. Thanks.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sean Kenney

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 27, 2025 by Director of Education Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success 0

Shannon Mitchell – Training Specialist, Foster Care at The Family Centre in Edmonton

Shannon Mitchell – Provincial Training Coordinator for the Alberta Home Visitation Network Association
About Shannon Mitchell

Shannon Mitchell is a dedicated social worker based in Edmonton, Alberta, with a strong focus on learning and development. She began her career 20 years ago in Home Visitation, supporting families as they welcomed new babies. Most recently, she has been serving as a Training Specialist in Foster Care at The Family Centre in Edmonton. Previously, she worked as the Provincial Training Coordinator for the Alberta Home Visitation Network Association, providing training and support to professionals working with families.

Shannon is passionate about applying adult learning principles to design unique and engaging learning experiences. Her background in Home Visitation has shaped her ability to think creatively and view eLearning as an opportunity to engage differently. Whether through reflective book clubs to meet prerequisites, innovative tools, or hands-on practice opportunities, Shannon enjoys crafting trainings that support learners to learn!

Connect with Shannon Mitchell: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

The Family Centre in Edmonton

Alberta Home Visitation Network Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Shannon Mitchell, who is a dedicated social worker based in Edmonton, Alberta. She’s very passionate about early childhood education, adult education, learning and development, and also streaming.

Sam Demma
She has an insane tech setup. The first time I met her, she very much impressed me with her, with her technology and skills and I’m so grateful that she’s taking the time out of her schedule to come on the show here today. Shannon, thank you so much for being

Shannon Mitchell
here. Oh, thank you for having me. It’s really exciting. My first podcast, Sam. This is the first one? Yeah. The first of many. Well, let’s hope. We’ll put my LinkedIn and people can can tag me if they want to talk to me more, right? Absolutely.

Sam Demma
Uh tell me more about your passions for both childhood education and also adult education. Where do those come from?

Shannon Mitchell
So they intersect in a way that maybe people don’t always think about very much. I can’t say that I thought about it much when I was kind of in the field, you know, one-on-one doing work with families. But when you look at early childhood, first of all, it’s really the basis for everything. So every dollar we put into early childhood gives us back about $4 into our society. So really important and really fun work. And I did a lot of work with families

Shannon Mitchell
where I was supporting them in the home to, you know, embrace their parenting style, to find things that are working for their family, to really engage them in being mindful and intentional parents and really looking at what they can do to support their child’s development now, what they can do to support their family’s development, those sorts of things. What I wish I had had a better understanding of, although I didn’t do terrible, Sam, I’ll tell you, is how adult learning principles would play into that so well. And how understanding how adults learn could have really helped me support them

Shannon Mitchell
to be learning new skills as they were learning to parents. And so as I continued my career and got into working with teaching training professionals about how to, you know, work with families and things. I found the two passions just really collided in a way that I wasn’t necessarily expecting, but was logical if I kind of took a step back and did some reflection.

Sam Demma
That’s amazing. Did you know growing up that you wanted to work in development of children and adults, or is it something that you stumbled into?

Shannon Mitchell
Kind of. So I was that kid. I was a volunteer. I worked at a food bank from like from the time I volunteered at a food bank for the time I was like 12, until I was about 16. I really was, you know, I was a candy striper. I did those things. I really enjoyed helping people. I really enjoyed getting involved. And I went through a little period kind of in my late teens. I think when our children are 12, 13, 14, we should really nurture that spirit because it’s there in almost all children and they don’t always know how to help. But there’s often this thing that comes out of

Shannon Mitchell
really recognizing the world and wanting to make a difference. And I believe if we really hone in on that, if we really help them grab that and go with it, that things can go really well in the world. I think it could change the whole world if we really help children at that age really move through that. I ran into, when I was about 16, 17, some really significant hypocrisy. And I didn’t have anyone to talk to about it.

Shannon Mitchell
I wish I had the internet. I feel like the internet would have helped me, maybe. But I was trying to process this adult hypocrisy I was running into, and what it did is turn me off. I was going to go work for an oil company. And you know, so things evolved as I went to university and kind of started to find

Shannon Mitchell
myself again. I had a very, very good instructor in university, a very good person to help me pick my classes. So I was always choosing classes that would let me do other things. And in the end, I ended up with a social work degree. I was like, this is actually where I want to be. I do want to support people. I actually do have this love. I just, you know, didn’t know how to process what was happening, you know,

Shannon Mitchell
in a different space that I wasn’t used to. And I wasn’t used to being in an adult space at 16 either and running into those kind of challenges. So it’s definitely been an adventure to get there. Actually, it’s four majors in university, just in case anyone’s out there like trying to find themselves, it’s okay. You’ll figure it out.

Sam Demma
What were the other three?

Shannon Mitchell
So English, and then I was like, what am I going to do an English degree? So I was like, maybe I’ll be an English teacher. So it’s interesting. I actually did look at teaching for a hot second and I didn’t enjoy the class that I took,

Shannon Mitchell
which is a really ridiculous reason to change your entire major again. But I was like, oh, maybe I don’t want to teach. Like maybe this isn’t for me. I don’t, I don’t really, what I thought was I’m not really feeling these students and they would be my peers if I went to work in a school. So I went to social work and I had the

Shannon Mitchell
opportunity to take my social work in this really secluded little corner of Saskatchewan where we had an off-campus. So there was like 20 of us taking it kind of all at the same time. It was in-person instruction at that point because it was a little too early for the internet to be really good at learning, frankly. And had this really great experience. Learned more than I think a lot of people do in their degree because we had such an insular course and were able to kind of learn from each other

Shannon Mitchell
and really dig into courses in a way that I wasn’t expecting.

Sam Demma
That’s amazing. It sounds like you had a unique educational journey and it makes me think about my own. I was someone who went to school not really knowing what I wanted to do with my life and taking a major because I thought it was just the right thing to do because everybody else was doing it

Sam Demma
and then postponing it to pursue other passions and I haven’t returned yet. It’s been a little while. And I think it’s so important that everyone remembers that all paths are different and every journey is different

Sam Demma
and there’s no special timeline that we’re all existing on where we have to do something by a certain age or a certain time, or we are quote unquote behind. Absolutely. I loved what you said about, before we started this call, that everyone as an adult, maybe even as a young person,

Sam Demma
should get a semester of time where they’re just tasked with personal development and exploration. Tell me a little bit about where that thought or idea came from.

Shannon Mitchell
So I’m currently between things. I’m looking for employment and thinking about my next steps. And as part of that process, I’ve been filling my time with things like my library programming and LinkedIn opportunities and Nonprofit Hive, anyone who knows who that is,

Shannon Mitchell
it’s amazing, going to free seminars, downloading trials of software and teaching myself how to do the rest of the adult learning online that I haven’t had the opportunity to in my employment yet. Like, really enjoying myself. If I didn’t have to worry about my next step right now, I’d be in my renaissance, right? And so, yeah, my thought was every five years we should all have this opportunity to like take a semester, four months, and just do personal development and then hop back into employment seamlessly, get paid, not have to worry about that paycheck.

Shannon Mitchell
I think that there’s a lot of… When we’re in that grind and we’re in that work, it’s hard to make time for those things that you always want to get to. And so I’m finding I don’t have enough time still, but I’m kind of doing the things that I wish I would have more time for. And then maybe it will set me up to do more of that when I actually get back to working full-time again.

Sam Demma
There’s a lot of educators listening to this that are burnt out and stressed and anxious and pouring in so much to students and teachers and everyone in their buildings. That thought is probably so juicy for them. Oh my goodness, if I could just get a semester

Sam Demma
to take a break and explore some curiosities, it would probably excite them. For someone who hasn’t explored their curiosities in a long time, they probably wouldn’t even know where to start or like what to do with that space. What are a few of the things you’ve been exploring

Sam Demma
that have surprised you or you’ve become super interested in and can recommend

Shannon Mitchell
somebody else check them out as well. So a couple of things for me if you live anywhere near a bigger city check out your library because I know my library will allow people from the neighboring communities to access it as well and it’s no longer just books I’ve learned to use a sewing machine a laser engraver a whole studio lab space I don’t know what I’m going to do with a studio lab space, but they got one. And so I learned how to use it, you know, all sorts of things that I just wouldn’t imagine.

Shannon Mitchell
And I’m like, well, if they offer it, I’m going to take it. And just they have the equipment, I can go borrow it once I’m certified. So I did that. The other thing is, I wasn’t so sure about exploring the self-directed learning aspect. there’s a lot of learning that happens best through interpersonal communication. But exploring the self-directed learning, the kind of technology side of our field, has actually been really interesting and I can see how the two can support each other so well.

Shannon Mitchell
There’s so many times, and I mean, having been a while since you’ve been a student, Sam, but there’s so many times when you’re kind of learning the same thing over and over again to make sure everyone’s got it, to make sure everyone’s got the same base. It’s basic knowledge. It doesn’t require a lot of synthesis right from us. That stuff on self-directed learning could take care of so much. I can remember like, you and I’ve talked about our generation gap, right? So we’re talking early 90s when I was in high school. And I can remember learning the metric system like six

Shannon Mitchell
times in six different courses through high school. High school is only three years in Saskatchewan. I was like so done with it. But every class had to make sure you had the base. So if I could have just gone on a self-directed learning, bloop, bloop, bloop, bloop, show I knew it, and then we could move on, life would have been so much easier, right?

Shannon Mitchell
So I think about that sometimes, how those two things are gonna work hand in hand. And I didn’t expect to find that. If you’d asked me what I thought about self-directed learning in June of this year, I would have been like, eh, I’m not sure it’s a good idea.

Shannon Mitchell
And now I can definitely see how the two can support one another and make learning more effective. And really, younger people don’t always want this interaction in particular. You know, it’s a little trickier. Those who grew up in the pandemic, even trickier yet, I think. So if we can kind of interacting with the machine kind of way, I think that we can really find something that will support adult learning principles and support people where they want to learn right now.

Sam Demma
When you think about your time doing work in learning and development, what aspects of it bring you the most joy and fulfillment?

Shannon Mitchell
I really like, I see it as a bit of a puzzle. So I am I also like telling stories and I think storytelling is actually amazing. So it’s like a win win. But I think that, you know, when I set out a course and I’m looking at what people are trying to learn, you start breaking it up into half hour chunks. They can’t listen to me from, you know, for a long period of time. What are we doing in this half hour to change things up? What are we doing to change their brain? What’s going to ground the learning here? What can we bring them in? What will will they maybe be willing to contribute?

Shannon Mitchell
I loved it every training. I did Ages and Stages questionnaire training probably, let’s say, 30 times in six years. And it was different every time because of who was in the space. And that was a training that had a lot of content. So there wasn’t a lot of room for reflection, not a lot of room for… And still every single one of them was different.

Shannon Mitchell
And I learned something every time I did it. So that was really exciting to me. I really like that process of figuring out. I like talking to people, too. My favorite training was actually virtual online trainings.

Shannon Mitchell
So the in-person was good, but I really enjoyed people from all over the province together, sometimes all over the country, connecting differently and using some of the tools that I found. I got really excited about some of the tools that can engage interaction.

Shannon Mitchell
And so I really found it more enjoyable than I ever imagined, actually. But Sam, I want to go back to those burned out people you talked about. Can I? Please. I will tell you, I think I’ve heard you ask people, and I might be preempting a question, but I think I’ve heard you ask people, like, tell me about your favourite teacher, your favourite educator. I’ve had so many and know that there’s someone out there right

Shannon Mitchell
now who is feeling what you’re doing as a teacher and it is impacting their lives. I grew up in the 70s, 80s, 90s. I was born in the late 70s and I was a girl who was talkative and curious and that didn’t always go over well in public. People didn’t always love a little girl who had a lot to say. The world was changing, but my teachers, almost all of them, adored it and nurtured it. And I could tell you, you know, my kindergarten teacher, Mrs. Paddock, and I’m 47 years old, I can tell you about Mrs. Heffernan, who made room for me to learn in my own way. I can tell you about, you know, oh, I’ve lost her name. My grade four teacher, who’s

Shannon Mitchell
now an author, I even have her book and I’ve just completely lost her, Betty Dorian, who was like, oh, Shani, you’ve kind of missed some of this along the way. We had some split classes and stuff. Would you like some extra work to learn this grammar stuff? And I’m like, I’m here for it. And she’s like, I gotcha. Right. So people who really supported me my entire way, so if you’re kind of feeling burned out, look for that child because they’re there. Sometimes they’re the quiet one who’s like absorbed and sometimes they’re like

Shannon Mitchell
me and they got things to say and sometimes they challenge you and if I really like you, I will challenge you. So that’s something, you know, even in high school was a thing. And so just recognizing that there’s a child out there who needs what you’re doing right now and that doesn’t mean you can’t take a break, but it’s not what you’re doing now is not for naught.

Sam Demma
I appreciate you bringing that up, especially around this time of year. I think there’s a lot of people that have been really pushing hard and they’re reaching for the break and hoping that that break gives them what they need to show up again in the new year with full recharged batteries for others. How do you make sure you stay full so that when you do show up in spaces where you need to contribute to others, you have the capacity to do so.

Shannon Mitchell
I think it’s important to think about what parts of your job do feed you. Yeah. And what parts do take your energy. So I love the online virtual training, but actually days of an on-end were draining. I had to have a variety. So thinking about where in your work you can put those places in. And what about this thing do you really enjoy? If you’re teaching littles,

Shannon Mitchell
where can you put some breaks in that will support you and the children, right? So if you’re teaching older children, where can you let them explore themselves or express their opinions? You know, I had a teacher in high school who rearranged our desks. I used to sit in the back and our classroom ended up with the back seats weren’t there anymore. There was an extra row now. And I got there not in time to like pick the back desk. So I just sat down where my desk

Shannon Mitchell
used to be on the floor. And the teacher just taught the class as though nothing happened. And by about the fourth day, I’m sitting on the floor and I’m going, Oh, God, how am I going to get out of this? Like, how am I going to get out of this Sam? And he goes, Shannon, there’s a quiz today, get your desk. And I was so relieved to get my desk. Right? So recognizing what you need to take on and what you don’t. I mean, again, I still remember this. At the time, I can very distinctly remember thinking, now I’ve got myself into this and I don’t want to just go take a desk. But by the

Shannon Mitchell
time he kind of was like, it’s time, Shannon. I was like, yeah, yeah, it’s time. So recognizing what you need to take on and what you don’t, you know, having some faith in our young people and letting them control some of their learning. Oh, I have so much to say.

Shannon Mitchell
I absolutely love this story.

Sam Demma
I appreciate you sharing it. I think we choose our battles sometimes based on our own perceived needs or desires versus what might be best for us. And I’ve done it so many times in my own life. And yeah, I appreciate you.

Sam Demma
And what’s normal, right?

Shannon Mitchell
Like this perception of what we’re supposed to be doing and recognizing that, you know, you and I are half a country apart right now in two different cities, I think. I don’t know if you’re home, but I’m in Edmonton and to get down east, I mean, there are literally an infinite number of ways to get there. Even leaving my neighborhood, how many ways are there to leave? And is any way better than another, right?

Shannon Mitchell
And so recognizing that even if we’re going the same place, every path we take is valid and it might teach us something different. This time of year, I might see new Christmas lights even if I take the long way to my neighborhood. So is that the most effective way to get there?

Shannon Mitchell
No, but does it do something different for me than yesterday’s route did? Yes. And so really recognizing that it’s okay to let kids be on their own journey. I know you have like things you have to do. I’ve done training where I had

Shannon Mitchell
to, people have to be able to do this tool at the end. But really recognizing that, you know, if we get where we’re going, we get where we’re going.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love it. Where do you want to go in the next few years? Do you have an idea of a, I know you’re in this phase of exploration, but maybe there’s someone listening to this who might be able to connect the dot for you.

Shannon Mitchell
Yeah, I am really become more and more passionate about the learning development area. And so I will be honest, there’s not a lot of jobs in my field as far as like, connecting early childhood and adult learning. If someone has one of those, I’d be happy to take it. I’m really looking at how to grow my skills and learning development and take a position in a job that will let me kind of use what I’m already good at. I’m an excellent facilitator. I’m excellent at developing programs. I need more practice on the self-directed learning side of development and those sorts of things.

Shannon Mitchell
And I need both of those things. I need to be able to use my skills and be learning to really thrive in a job. So if someone wants, you know, a trainer in a field I’m not familiar with, that gives me the opportunity to learn a whole bunch of new things too, which is fantastic. So I’m pretty open to a lot of different things right now. I’m really thinking about what my skills are, because I think I’m going to just get a little sociopolitical on you, Sam, but especially as women, we’re taught not to brag a lot and not to

Shannon Mitchell
own our strength and not to own our skills. And you’ll hear us say things like, oh, I just a lot more. Even when you read the research, women and actually people of colour and other people who experience marginalization are less likely to apply for jobs that they’re not like 95 percent

Shannon Mitchell
qualified for already. And so I’ve decided to be bold and apply for jobs that maybe I don’t think will call me back, but maybe they will. And so but it’s having to really be kind to myself too, because that means I’m putting out a lot of resumes

Shannon Mitchell
that aren’t getting callbacks. But I’m like, you know, 30% of these, I’m actually probably not expecting callback. And I need to teach myself to be okay with that. Yeah, so that’s where I’m at right now.

Sam Demma
And I’m so excited to hear about where it ends up. I’m sure whoever brings you onto their team is gonna absolutely love having you and be better off because of it. And if there is someone listening right now, I’ve had the opportunity to work with Shannon, and she was lovely to work with. And we enjoyed, I enjoyed all of our calls,

Sam Demma
and it was seamless. And I am not getting paid if she gets a job, just so anyone recognizes this is not a paid promotion, nor is it the reason that we set this up. We set it up well before she was in a new job search. She’s just a lovely human being that would add so much value to a team. And I hope that whoever’s listening recognizes that and opens some doors for you. In closing, Shannon, is there any last like big ideas or thoughts on your mind that you wanna share with the educators that are tuning in?

Shannon Mitchell
Yes, and I think this applies to your work too, Sam. And I did mention to this to you once in a call, but I think I can kind of tie together the educators we’ve been talking about, my experience, but also what you do. And I always think about when we talk about the little things that happen in life. Here you are, you do like three of these a week maybe. For me, it’s exciting, right? And so when you think about everything we do, if we think about it like pages in a book, you know, one page, rip, it’s gone.

Shannon Mitchell
It’s easy to rip that page. But there’s whole competitions about ripping a phonebook because it’s so hard to do. So when you think about everything that you’re doing in a positive way is really building. And honestly, we don’t need perfection in our caregivers. We don’t need perfection in our educators. Children are born to be resilient and they’re born to have people who are caring for them make mistakes and all those things. But every positive thing we do adds another page to that notebook. And as we’re going through life, we’ve got this big book of amazing things that are supporting us that can be really hard to break.

Shannon Mitchell
And so I think like you’re contributing right now another page to my book. You brought me in here and you’re like, I believe in you, Shannon, and I think that you have something to say. I think all of these educators who are watching are adding those pages to this children’s notebooks every day, and they’re not even realizing that they’re probably doing it. And so, and it doesn’t take much recognizing strengths, you know, looking for the positive

Shannon Mitchell
first, even we got to correct kids. But it doesn’t mean we can’t look for the positive first, right? All those kind of things that really build up children that will have these giant notebooks, which is the one thing they should keep in their backpack, Sam, for the whole life, right? I love it.

Sam Demma
So, so true. And within each notebook, there’s memories of people’s names on it, you know, attached to them. And so just to keep that in mind, like every action we take has an impact

Sam Demma
not only on the positive, but also it could be on the negative. And so let’s be cautious about the words we use and the actions we take. And yeah, I think about folks who have taught me what to do and taught me not what not to do.

Sam Demma
And both are equally as valuable, but some way heavier than others. If someone’s listening to this and they want to have a conversation with you, Shannon, or reach out, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Shannon Mitchell
I would say, I think you’re going to put things in the notes, right? So Linkedin, and there is my email that you’re perfectly welcome to engage with as well. Yeah, I’m learning to use LinkedIn and kind of enjoying the kind of more focused social media aspect of it, but certainly email is a good place to find me too.

Sam Demma
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show, keep exploring during this phase of your life. And I’m so grateful for your thoughts, your ideas and your presence. your ideas and your presence.

Shannon Mitchell
Thank you, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Shannon Mitchell

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 20, 2025 by Social Worker Student Success 0

Betty Norton, M. Ed. – Chief Academic Officer at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School

Betty Norton, M. Ed. – Chief Academic Officer at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School
About Betty Norton

For almost 30 years, Betty Norton worked for Broward County Public Schools where she taught middle school students and later concentrated on special populations included Gifted and Exceptions Student Education (ESE) classrooms and Title I schools.  

Motivated to bring even more value to the students of Broward County, Ms. Norton pursued and earned a National Board Certification in 2004 and a master’s degree in Curriculum and Instruction in 2007, while concurrently dedicating her time to increase academic achievement in the district’s middle and high schools. She worked at the district level from 2005-2016. She worked for Core Curriculum as a curriculum developer and then in 2009 transferred to the dept of Accountability. In both cases, she was assigned to low-performing schools (D-F schools) and led a team of district support to evaluate, design, and implement school improvement plans and met with great success. Norton also provided training for faculty and administration. 

Keen to learn more about virtual and remote education, Ms. Norton also spent seven-and-a-half years working for both Broward Virtual School and Florida Virtual School before embarking on her career at Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School, where she served as Head of Schools for Coral Springs. When Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School opened in 2020, Norton was tapped to lead the global virtual campus and since then, has become a go-to expert in online, remote and virtual education, having been featured in Thrive Global and numerous family and lifestyle blogs.  

Ms. Norton earned a Bachelor of Science in Secondary English Education from the University of Central Florida and a Master of Science from Capella University. 

Connect with Betty Norton: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Broward County Public Schools
Broward Virtual School
Florida Virtual School
Xceed Preparatory Academy Virtual School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we have a very special guest on the show. Betty Norton is a veteran in education, almost 30 years. She is currently sitting in her office in beautiful Florida where it is sunny outside and I’m sitting in my office where it is minus five and snowing.

Sam Demma
Betty has an unwavering passion for education, personalizing the experience to individuals to meet their needs and help them excel and exceed. Betty, thank you so much for coming on the show here today. Thank you so much.

Betty Norton
It’s my pleasure.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about the work that you’re doing in education today and what got you into education in the first place.

Betty Norton
Okay, well, those are two very big questions. Do we have time for both? What I do in education these days. So I actually am the chief academic officer for several private schools that we have here in South Florida.

Betty Norton
We have six physical campuses and one virtual school that we use to kind of overlay across all of our campuses. We have students all around the world who attend our virtual school. And we also have students who are visiting the state of Florida for their sports and maybe attending any one of our XSEED Prep campuses.

Betty Norton
So that’s what I do now. I do oversee them. And my focus is doing whatever we can to make those schools better, to be able to provide students with a personalized learning education that really fulfills their needs and helps them achieve their goals. And the biggest reason why I got into education

Betty Norton
is because I have a big passion for it. I know that everyone says that, but I genuinely enjoy working with young people, especially middle schoolers and high schoolers. I graduated college going into business and then very quickly switched gears and went straight into education and I’ve never looked back.

Sam Demma
You mentioned the importance of creating personalized educational experiences and journeys for students. What does that look like for your schools? Great question.

Betty Norton
So at our schools, we have, let’s say for example, our schools open from 8 to 3.30 every day. And we personalize our students’ schedules all the way down to when they will be on campus. So a traditional campus will have students coming in at 8, leaving at 3.30, bells will ring and they will switch from class to class. They only have a certain amount of time with

Betty Norton
each of their teachers and let’s say for example if you’re waiting to get to number 17 because that’s the only question you really had a problem with, it’s really difficult when everyone else kind of gets a turn and perhaps the bell rings before you even get your shot at it. So at XSEED our students have flexible schedules. Some of our students come maybe three or four times a week. They may be on campus for about five to six hours, and they get to work with their teachers individually,

Betty Norton
and they also get to work with their teachers in small group sessions. So one of the ways that we customize our curriculum for them is meeting them where they are and then being able to create a support system for any foundational skills that they may be lacking. We help remediate those throughout the day. And then while they’re working with their teachers and working in small groups,

Betty Norton
they’re accelerating and moving forward. So we have the ability to have some students who may take a little bit longer to earn their high school diploma and say they might go an extra semester. But the opposite is also true.

Betty Norton
We have plenty of students who wish to graduate early because they wanna pursue their careers or the ideas and dreams that they’ve been planning. So sometimes we have students who graduate early.

Sam Demma
And recently you opened a few more schools. Tell me a little bit about it.

Betty Norton
Yes, that was quite the endeavor. We opened three new campuses this August and they are spread out throughout South Florida. We have a new campus in Boca, one in Palm Beach Gardens and one in Fort Lauderdale. All of them were quite exciting and quite challenging

Betty Norton
to open, trying to do three things at once is always a challenge. But we are hoping to tap into those communities and again, allow those students the opportunity to get the education personalized and have those needs met. Our schools tend to be rather small. Our schools are less than 100 students at each campus. And we do that by design so that the teachers can go ahead and personalize things and work students in small groups, if not one-on-one.

Sam Demma
How do people find your schools? Has XSEED been open for a long time? Tell me a little bit more about the process of a family getting their kid involved in one of your campuses.

Betty Norton
Yes, so we opened our doors back in September of 2017. And honestly, the fastest way for them to find us now is typically word of mouth. We have a very strong community build where our families will share with their friends and let them know what the experience has been for their child and so they’ll come out and visit our campuses. But otherwise we do

Betty Norton
what everybody else seems to do. We participate in conversations, we go to conferences, we have our website and Google and so forth. So we do have an active Instagram page and we get a lot of our families through our social and through word of mouth

Sam Demma
When you think of the students you serve at exceed across all campuses How do you measure the success of a student is it? I guess it must be based on their own goals and dreams and if you if you were able to help them move closer to those, but are there any students that stick out in your mind when you think of the impact that XSEED has had on a student’s journey?

Betty Norton
Yes, so you’re right. We do have a different, different ways of measuring, but quite honestly the first and foremost way that I measure student success is based on how happy they are. Many of our students are coming to us because they either feel like they’ve been left behind at a traditional school, whether it be private or public. Larger schools have a difficult time, and no fault to them.

Betty Norton
I used to work public school for about 20 years, so I understand the needs of the classroom teacher. But sometimes you just need to have a little bit of extra time every day to help you do what you need to do. So some of our students really come to us because they want that flexibility in their day,

Betty Norton
they want a little bit of a later start, and they want more of that one-on-one experience so that we can help them with those foundational skills. So honestly, seeing students go from being a little sad or depressed or feeling like they couldn’t achieve things or just even basic things like,

Betty Norton
miss, I’m not good at this math, I’d like to skip it or move on to something else. And then going in, let’s say six to seven weeks after they start with us and see them participating, not only just joining, but participating in a group session and getting up to the board and running through the math and showing you that they know what they’re doing is kind of an amazing task. I think one of the biggest memories that I have with XSEED that really made me proud of what we do and what our team has been successfully doing for the last few years, especially.

Betty Norton
I’ve been to probably 50 or 60 National Honor Society inductions. Between all the schools that I’ve ever worked in and working at the district level, you tend to be invited to things like that. And it’s always a very nice affair and everyone’s quite proud of their child. But at Exceed,

Betty Norton
since so many of those students were already struggling at their previous schools, I’d never seen so many parents just kind of move to tears with sharing so many stories of how their child, if they stayed at their school, they would have never been part of National Honor Society because they just weren’t getting the time and attention that they needed to be successful. So to see something that became so normal for me and then run into so many families that were just crying

Betty Norton
and brought every relative, the biggest event just to celebrate their child’s success really was a huge moment for me. It made me feel like we really were heading in the right direction and providing this level of education for kids.

Sam Demma
It’s so cool to hear about the impact the programs are creating in the lives of families and their children. I know that the reason many educators, heart-centered individuals, get into education is because they want to make a difference. Sometimes you don’t hear about it for a really long time, and more often than not, might not even realize that you are making

Sam Demma
a serious contribution to the life of a young person and their family. To attend an event like that and hear the stories must be such a gift. It sounds like you’ve spent years in public education, you’ve now spent multiple years in private education.

Sam Demma
You’ve also spent years teaching and leading virtual education. Can you talk a little bit about what it means to create a great experience virtually for students because school boards, especially in the pandemic hit, really struggled to maintain engagement and provide a good experience virtually. But I think it’s a beautiful opportunity to connect students from all over the globe with virtual experiences.

Sam Demma
And I know you’ve been doing it very well. No, thank you. And I mean, Sam, I’ll have to say, just this experience that you and I are currently having,

Betty Norton
that you’re in Canada and I’m in Florida, and we’re able to have this conversation, and I feel like we’re in the same room just chatting with each other. So the virtual education, I think, that’s probably the biggest piece right there.

Betty Norton
If you can help the student feel like they are live and in person and they’re engaging, regardless of where they’re sitting, I think you’ve really, you’ve kind of like overcome your first hurdle, if you will, in the virtual world. The other is over communication. I think that when you have a physical environment, people get a lot of their

Betty Norton
physical cues, you know, they look at each other, they can see how someone is feeling and so on, but in the virtual world, it’s kind of radio silent until you tap into them. So it’s really important to have different engagement opportunities for our students. We have social hours for them. We have activities that we sometimes run. We have virtual parties. We have all kinds of things that help them still be a part

Betty Norton
of our virtual community. They can even volunteer online and participate in donations if they wanted to donate for Toys to Tots or what have you through that virtual platform. So I think the key there in order for the students to feel really engaged is to have those connections

Betty Norton
and have those opportunities for the students to be a part of something, whether they can physically be there or not, they feel connected to everyone else in the group.

Sam Demma
Throughout your educational career, which mentors have you had or resources that have been really instrumental in your personal and professional development? And if so, what did you learn from those things or those individuals?

Betty Norton
Yes, that’s a really good question. So I’m gonna have to say my very first resource is the library. Ever since I was in elementary school, any time I wanted to know a little bit more about something rather than, and maybe this is probably because I did go to public and private school when I was younger, but going to your teacher and asking 20 questions wasn’t always ideal.

Betty Norton
So being able to go to the library and check out books and talk to the librarian and learn as much as I could about a particular topic really helped me stay curious and really helped me figure out how to tap into things and be a self-advocate and self-reliant. I think those skills really have transferred into my academic career and my professional career. But if I were to talk about any one mentor that I think really helped change things and

Betty Norton
helped mold me is Dr. Janet Allen. She was my college professor, and I kind of used to call her my college mom. So she’s the person who guided me through the entire process, helped me land my first job in education, and really saw that I had a passion for working with students, especially underprivileged students,

Betty Norton
who may have been attending Title I schools or lived in difficult environments. And me growing up in Newark, New Jersey also kind of gave me that opportunity to feel like, yes, I know what it’s like to be in a tough neighborhood and go to school.

Betty Norton
So she really understood what I wanted and saw that talent in me and made sure that I was in every rough school I could possibly work in so that I can make the greatest impact. And I really appreciate her for that because if it wasn’t for her, I don’t know that I would have taken advantage of those opportunities myself.

Sam Demma
Does she know how much of a difference she’s made in your journey in life?

Betty Norton
I hope so. I ran into her probably about seven years ago. She was presenting at a conference and I just walked up to her and said, hey, do you remember me? And she said, yes.

Betty Norton
And I said, I just wanted to give you a big hug and say, these are all the things I’ve been able to accomplish because you put me, or helped put me on the right path. And we both cried a little bit over that and reminisced about the good old days.

Betty Norton
But so I think to a certain extent she knows. Does she know? The full extent of it I think as teachers we never really know the power that we have over someone or how far our reach is, even when we run into them, really. They share their successes, and we say that’s fascinating. But to have that inside of you and every time you think about that person,

Betty Norton
you can get warm fuzzies and feel like they were your greatest cheerleader and supporter. I don’t know that we ever know how great that impact is.

Sam Demma
I think it’s an important reminder that we don’t know, and it’s equally as important a reminder to reach out to those individuals and tell them. I have a teacher who in grade 12 totally changed my life and trajectory, and fortunately he lives close to home,

Sam Demma
and we’ve stayed in touch over email, and once a year I try to eat a lunch with him and his wife on their porch and their dog. And every time I go, I get emotional. And I tell him and his wife how thankful and grateful I am for their presence in my life growing up.

Sam Demma
And I just think that the world needs more of those moments. And if you still have contact with Dr. Janet, it would be a beautiful reason to reach out and let her know. And if you’re an educator listening to this and you haven’t heard from a student or a colleague about the impact you’ve created on their life, just because you haven’t heard doesn’t mean you weren’t instrumental in that person’s personal and professional development. So please keep showing up and keep going and start the cycle. If there’s someone who had an impact on you

Sam Demma
and you’re listening to this, reach out to them. Use this as a reason to do so. I’m curious, Betty, you seem like someone who is extremely driven and dedicated to supporting young people and their families and advancing them in their education and their personal dreams and goals. How do you fill your own cup when you’re not at work to ensure that when you do show up,

Sam Demma
you’re giving the best of yourself that you possibly can? Well, I think the most important thing is to strike a balance between what you do for

Betty Norton
yourself and what you do for others. And a balance doesn’t necessarily mean 50 50, right? Today, it might be 100% exceed and 0% Betty, but tomorrow, it might be 90% Betty and 10% exceed, right? It’s knowing that balance, knowing what the priority is of the day and where you’re going to make the most impact. When you first start off, especially doing something

Betty Norton
at this scale, you feel like you have to be there for every single person, and you want to be a great leader, you want to be able to talk to them and say, I have an open-door policy, reach out to me, talk to me. But if you allow that, you could easily have 65 to 70 people reaching out to you on a daily basis,

Betty Norton
trying to troubleshoot things. So I think the biggest thing that I try to do, especially with our heads of schools and our leadership team is delegates, right? I want them to be able to provide and support our teachers by becoming experts in different areas. So even though I oversee everything,

Betty Norton
I do have them helping and balancing the load. And I try to take off as much as I can off their plates so that they can spend their time working on the job itself, working with the families and the students. And I take care of the business side of things or managing any issues that we may have, our curriculum, our facilities,

Betty Norton
and so forth. But I think having that downtime at home, spending time with my family, I have a daughter, a son, and a beautiful husband who are incredibly supportive of me, who understand that sometimes I have to work on a Sunday at 6 in the morning, and understand that, you know, I make up for it in other ways. We have family time, we always have dinner together, I do have a few things that are non-negotiables, if

Betty Norton
you will. I think those are important to have that set of standards in your work life, but also have some boundaries in your personal life.

Sam Demma
Saying no is so difficult in my own personal life. I know that as an educator, you’re pulled in hundreds of different directions too. How do you build that muscle to set the boundaries and stick to them when you really want to serve and support all the time

Betty Norton
You make a lot of mistakes. I’m gonna be honest with you. I mean, it’s not it’s most certainly not a perfected craft I think it’s always a work in progress and I think it will be until forever Yeah, it really is, you know, sometimes you sit there and go jeez. I probably shouldn’t have extended myself there I really wanted to be better at this and it really only takes one or two opportunities where you feel like you could have been at 100% to make you feel like, okay, I need to really focus because being here for the students and our families is what’s most important to me. Being here to support the teachers is also incredibly important. So once you have

Betty Norton
that experience, you say, all right, I’m going to wake up every morning and get myself organized. So that’s exactly what I do before I even hop out of bed. I go through my calendar, what’s going on, what do I need to do, what do I need to fire off and delegate or ask someone to assist with so that I can clear the path and be fully present. That’s something that I’ve been focusing on,

Betty Norton
especially over the last two years, with everything that happened with COVID and social media and all the things that are going on, wanting to be present is incredibly important for me. So I do, I sit with people, I like to sit with you face-to-face.

Betty Norton
I ask for people to turn off their cell phones and let’s just have 20 minutes where you and I are engaging, we’re present, we’re here, we’re not worrying about all the things that are happening around us. And let’s focus on the items that we wanna get to, to make a better tomorrow for everybody.

Betty Norton
But it is difficult.

Sam Demma
The presence piece is huge. I think about my personal relationships and when I feel most seen, heard, understood and connected to others. And it’s when we are sitting together face to face or engaging in an activity, our phones are off or not in sight.

Sam Demma
Simon Sinek, there’s a picture or a video of him sitting on stage, and he pulls out his phone and holds it in his hand and waves it around while he’s speaking, and ask the audience, did it change the way you feel about me while I’m holding my phone speaking to you right now versus when it was hidden in my pocket. And as a viewer watching this video online, I answered the question in my head like saying yes,

Sam Demma
because it made me feel like I wasn’t the most important thing, that you’re holding onto something else. Maybe there’s something you’re thinking about related to your phone or a task you have to complete rather than being present with me.

Sam Demma
And it’s something I’ve tried to carry forward in all of our relationships, whether personally or professionally. When you think about XSEED and the new year’s right around the corner, what are some of the objectives the school as a whole,

Sam Demma
across all campuses are focused on, or some of the things you’re very excited about as we move forward?

Betty Norton
Yeah, so I think I have to start that by saying that I’m already in planning mode for fall of 2025, right? So I’m looking at our curriculum, our staffing, our facilities, the resources, what do we need to do? Are we adding more classes? Are we taking away classes?

Betty Norton
What are we gonna do to help provide opportunities for our students, field trips, guest speakers, and so on. So I’m very much ingrained in fall of 2025 right now, to the point where I’ve actually put in my calendar that Christmas is a week away and I need to shop. And every single day I have a notification

Betty Norton
that says go Christmas shopping, because I’m just so living in the future right now. And we have so many great things planned. We have, you know, with all of our campuses kind of ramping up for the fall, we wanna be able to provide

Betty Norton
those unique student experiences. I’m very big on experience versus giving someone an actual gift, I’d rather you have an experience or a moment, so we’re focusing on what do we need to do to take that classroom, that day-to-day and add to it, right? How do we take this opportunity

Betty Norton
and let you have a real life experience through a guest speaker or a field trip or even just a virtual tour? Those are incredibly powerful as well. You can visit anywhere in the world on a virtual tour. And I think it’s quite fascinating

Betty Norton
to be able to do that with students. But of course, continuing our work with the rigorous curriculum, we are a college prep school, so we want to make sure that we have strong relationships with the colleges and universities, especially those that our students wish to attend. And then supporting our community, having more opportunities dedicated to volunteer work and being able to work with everyone in our, you know, surrounding cities and towns by donating our time. So those are our big focuses.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure having you on the podcast to talk about your journey through education, some of your beliefs and philosophies around education and the cool things that are happening at XSEED across all the campuses. If someone is listening to this very inspired,

Sam Demma
wants to share a note of gratitude or appreciation or ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to reach out and get in touch with you?

Betty Norton
Absolutely, I would love it. I like talking shop, so anyone who’s open to chat, I’m always up for it. But I think emailing me at bnorton@xceedprep.org would be fantastic.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Betty, thank you so much for your time and your presence. I appreciate it and I wish you all the best in 2025 and beyond.

Betty Norton
Thank you so much, Sam. It’s been really great speaking with you today. It’s been really great speaking with you today. Thank you for your time.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Betty Norton

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 13, 2025 by Director of Education Education Educator Entrepreneur School Administration Virtual Education 0

Richard Primrose – Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School

Richard Primrose – Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School
About Richard Primrose

Richard is an educator, school administrator, coach, athlete and father. He has been the Assistant Director at Senior School at St. Michaels University School for seven years, and has also worked as the Head of Physical Education and Acting Senior School Director. His professional interests include creating a positive school culture and student leadership development, and in his personal time he is a runner, a traveler, and is the father of two young boys.

Connect with Richard Primrose: Email | Linkedin

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Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Michaels University School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Richard Primrose. You can’t see this because you’re listening virtually or in your ears. But Richard is currently wearing a Christmas hat with lights all across it because in a few hours is going to be a very exciting event happening at St. Mary’s University School in Victoria, BC, where Richard works. Richard is a runner, a father of two, a culture fanatic for amazing experiences for young people in school buildings. Richard, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.

Richard Primrose
Yeah, thanks for having me, Sam. I’m really excited. One small correction, the St. Michael’s University School.

Sam Demma
Oh, what am I saying? St. Michael’s University School. That’s a big correction. I appreciate it. And I actually love humanizing folks on the podcast, so I keep mistakes like that in the actual interviews as a way to just remind people that we all make little errors, and I think that’s what makes us more human. Thank you for that correction, and please tell us a little bit about yourself and what actually got you working in education in the first place.

Richard Primrose
Yeah, so my role at my school is assistant director of the senior school responsible for student life and leadership. So the student life aspect, I guess the most important thing I do at the school is creating a positive, safe environment

Richard Primrose
where students can come to school and feel safe and learn and feel like they belong and feel included. So that’s the important scope of my work. And then that involves, you know, all the things that a traditional vice principal, I guess you would say, would do,

Richard Primrose
ranging from all the conversations around discipline, because students do make bad choices, and the important thing is how they learn from them. And then the other end of that spectrum is the leadership, and that’s where a lot of the joy in this work comes, is supporting our student leaders

Richard Primrose
in making all the wonderful, awesome things that happen at the school come to fruition. And I really intentionally talk about supporting student leaders because at my school, one thing our leadership program really values is enabling students to act and giving students the support

Richard Primrose
and the resources and skills to actually get out there and do the real work. So a lot of the stuff you see happening at the school is almost entirely student-led with teachers in the background supporting them and coaching them. And it’s interesting, you talked about including that small error in the podcast. That’s part of our ethos at the school is that these things are not going to be perfect

Richard Primrose
and students are going to, along the way, make mistakes in their leadership and learn from them. So sometimes the events they put out are not 100% polished and necessarily world-class, but the real learning is in the students when they are in action and making small mistakes and getting better from those so that’s a part of our philosophy as well. Is there a reason

Sam Demma
you’re working in education today? Did you know when you were growing up that you would be serving young people?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, that’s a great question. My mom taught kindergarten and grade one. So from an early age, I was exposed to schools and she was a wonderful, beloved teacher. So I think that always planted a seed. Education runs deep in my family.

Richard Primrose
My grandma was a preschool teacher and I have other family members in education as administrators as well. So I suppose it’s in my blood in some ways and that seed was always planted. So at a young age, I suppose I could see myself doing it. And then I had my background growing up playing sports is just a huge part of my development.

Richard Primrose
As a younger kid, I played everything. And then as I got, you know, as a teenager, really focused on baseball and basketball. So a lot of seminal experiences there. And I think my background in sports sort of nudged me in the direction of education. I did go through a phase where I thought law school might be a good fit for me and kind of through university was I met up. But in the end, I did a physical education degree with a minor in geography. And I think one of the reasons I wanted to get into schools was to be involved in sports and be involved in coaching. And then as I got my job at St. Michael’s University School and I realized how much

Richard Primrose
I enjoyed it, how much fulfillment there is and how much purpose there is in education, I began to realize that this really is where I want to be. And my pathway has ranged from being a PE teacher, being a director of athletics for a year, and then kind of naturally led into administration when opportunities came up. So my job looks a lot different now, but it’s still working with kids, supporting kids as leaders.

Richard Primrose
So that’s sort of a bit of a rambling explanation as to how I got here. So I, yeah, I think the seed was always planted, but as I moved along in my education and sport career, I realized the place I wanted to be.

Sam Demma
And the role you’re in today allows you to work so closely with young people, despite the fact that you’re not sitting in their classroom. But the impact is massive. I was fortunate enough to visit the campus at St. Michael’s University School and meet many of the staff and the students who were all

Sam Demma
so kind and well-behaved and welcoming. These spaces are absolutely beautiful and also very inclusive. I felt like I was at home, despite the fact that I was pretty far away from home. So what do you think has contributed to that culture of belonging and kindness at school?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, that’s really great to hear, Sam. I appreciate that. It’s nice to hear that our students made you feel that way because that’s important to us. I think we’ve been very intentional about creating that kind of environment. Equity, diversity, and inclusion is a priority at our school and we’ve created a lot of language around that, that common language that we use. And right from the first day, our senior school students arrive on campus, they each are handed a little business card that’s got our equity, diversity, and inclusion statement on it. So right away, they’re seeing language around our beliefs surrounding creating a place where we feel like they belong and that we actually celebrate and embrace differences and diversity. So day one, they get the little card that’s got our statement on it, which was co-created with students, including our Pride Alliance. And then on the back of the card, there’s some resources that they can reach out to if they happen to be struggling with their mental health or with belonging. So I guess part of that is just when they get here, seeing the language, having people use it, and knowing right away that it’s one of our core values around belonging.

Sam Demma
The staff, I found, were also very welcoming and close-knit. I had a great experience with the lower school as well. I’m forgetting the individual’s name who was working with me at the time in this space, but everyone was so helpful and welcoming. And the educators themselves sometimes, in my experience, forget the impact they’re creating

Sam Demma
in the lives of young people. Maybe a student in their classroom doesn’t tell them until 10 years later when they graduate from the school and come back and let the teacher know. Or sometimes they never tell them, but the impact they’re creating is real. Do you have any words of advice or wisdom for an educator right now who’s heading into the holidays or starting the new year

Sam Demma
and is feeling a little bit burnt out, like they’re not making a difference?

Sam Demma
Yeah, have you ever felt like that before

Sam Demma
and what advice would you give them?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, you know, in education sometimes it feels like, I’ll use a bit of a training metaphor here, that we’re doing intervals. And, you know, we’re just coming out of a really intense interval here and now we’re about to get a break. So I think looking at it through that lens for educators taking your two or three weeks and really practicing self-care to recharge the batteries is important. So identifying the things that work for individuals to practice self-care. For me, it’s getting out for runs, it’s making sure I’m getting outside and moving. I love to run. I’m not necessarily very fast, but I get out there and do my best and it makes me feel good. It sharpens my thinking. It helps me manage my stress. So running and the other one is getting in the gym and throwing some weights around is good for me as well. But I think if people are looking at things that help them with their wellbeing, exercise has got to be one of them. And what else is it? You know, like, is it picking up a book and carving out time for yourself to read? And I like to read real old school paper books.

Richard Primrose
You know, that works for me getting off screens, but intentionally carving out that time. And then of course, spending time with family, friends, loved ones, Christmas is great for that. So I guess really it’s going into these holidays with a bit of intentionality to make sure you’re prioritizing the things that keep you well and make you feel good.

Sam Demma
Well, this is so important. Sometimes I neglect certain habits in my life. And when I return to them, it almost smacks me in the face like, oh my goodness, this is what I was missing this entire time because I was so focused on other things and work output that I forgot to pour into myself. And I think educators or any individuals who are in heart-centered work where you’re always trying to help and support others can sometimes fall into that trap as well. It sounds like running and exercise is one of those things for you. How do you balance the demands of work and also family? You know, you have two young kids.

Sam Demma
I’m sure they keep you busy. How do you manage the balance between everything?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, I mean, it’s a challenge. And to be honest, I probably would like to be spending more time doing my running and having workouts right now, but it’s just a matter of prioritizing and making sure you’re not finding yourself wasting too much time or procrastinating

Richard Primrose
and really trying to go in with a plan. And I talk to my my student leaders a lot about this being intentional, having a plan and then having some kind of system in place to to track that. So, again, with students, I talk a lot about how are you organizing yourself? Like, where are you making your notes? Where are you having your to do list and things of that nature.

Richard Primrose
So I think, obviously, leaders have to have some way of keeping track of their priorities. And if you can sort of weave in personal priorities as well and get that on your list of things to do, and even sometimes, if you can schedule things like that, schedule a workout, schedule a run,

Richard Primrose
schedule a coffee with a friend or a colleague, that can be a helpful way to make sure you’re including that in your healthy habits and routines. Because I think one thing is safe to say that everyone at some point in time slips out of their best, most positive routine and you have to reflect on how things are going and just make those small changes.

Richard Primrose
Sam, I know you’re big on small, consistent actions. And I think it’s a good thing to, when you’re reflecting on how things are going to go back to those small actions that help set you on the right track. You know, there’s a famous book, Atomic Habits, talks about habit stacking, right? So, if you can start off with small things, sometimes the big habits fall on top of that. People love to talk about the value of making your bed, for example, starting off the day

Richard Primrose
on a positive note and building upon that. I talked to our students at my school about wearing their uniform properly and how that starts the day off on a really positive note. You can check off something that you’ve accomplished, as small as putting on your uniform, and you can build upon that and it builds momentum.

Sam Demma
I had a soccer coach when I was 14, 15, 16, who would stop practice by blowing his whistle in the middle of a game if somebody’s shirt became untucked. And we wouldn’t know what was going on until everyone paused and looked down at their own shirts and one of my teammates would recognize, oh, his shirt fell out, so he’d tuck it back in

Sam Demma
and the game would continue. And this coach of mine had so many principles based around that nature. We would show up to practice and there was this long cobblestone pathway. If you walk the whole pathway,

Sam Demma
it would take you like two minutes to get to the field. If you just cut on the grass, it would take you like 15 seconds. So sometimes, you know, when I was first joining the team, I would naturally cut and I’d walk on the grass and maybe a few times my head coach didn’t notice, so he didn’t say anything, but there was one occasion where I guess you watched me walk along the grass instead of on the cobblestone path. And I got down to the field and I was shaking all the coach’s hand to say hello and he said, Sam, walk back up there and walk down the cobblestone path. And I laugh about it now, but in hindsight, I’m so grateful that I had those experiences because he really taught us that the way you do one thing is the way you do everything. And I think it’s important that we bring good intention to everything that we choose to do, especially when we’re young and we’re building our viewpoints and our perspectives of the world. So I think that’s such a valuable thing that you’re sharing with the students. Are there other principles or ideas that you often talk about with young people that maybe other educators can think about sharing with their students or their schools?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, well, first of all, I love that story. I love the idea as a sport, teaching life lessons, even small things like cutting corners. I talk about that with my rugby guys in training. Same thing, don’t cut small corners, right? I think the other theme that I’m really into these days is the idea that people, in particular students and teenagers, are anti-fragile. So the notion behind that is that not only are people resilient and able to overcome obstacles and challenges, the idea behind anti-fragility is that they actually need those obstacles and those challenges and some pressure and some stress to fully develop and to reach their full potential. And if we’re not experiencing those types of positive challenges, we’re not actually going to reach our full potential. So it’s the idea that people are anti-fragile and need those obstacles in life to overcome and learn from them and grow from them. So that’s like the next step, I think, from the idea of resilience.

Richard Primrose
And I think there, you know, sometimes we’re in a culture now where people tell a story to themselves that they are somewhat fragile, and I’m trying to push back a little bit on that and say that it’s okay to have experiences that stretch you, that push you, that are hard, and you’ll be better because of them and you need them.

Sam Demma
I think it’s such an important message. And the idea of challenges forming us is something that I resonate with because I had some major challenges in my life. And in hindsight, looking back, I wouldn’t change the challenges because they made me the person I am today. They also introduced me to so many other amazing human beings that I wouldn’t have met if I didn’t have

Sam Demma
that challenging experience. Can you think of challenges you’ve had in your life when you were a student or an educator or a parent that when you look back at, you say, wow, I really needed that in my life too because it changed my perspective or shifted something about the way I show up?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, when I have these types of conversations, I very often go back to my experiences playing sport when I was younger. So as a baseball player, so this is sort of when I’m, I guess, six years old to 15, baseball taught me so much about how to manage pressure and how to move beyond those types of things and be able to perform. And it taught me that I can do hard things. So I was a pitcher, so being up there, and as a pitcher, you’re controlling the game, you’re having to pitch strikes, everyone’s watching you. That was my first real bump in with pressure and stress. So that taught me what that feels like and that I was able to actually do it and do hard things. And now later on in my career, that transfers over to having to speak in big venues and things like that, that are still out of my comfort zone. But I often go back to those moments when I was pitching as a 13, 14, 15 year old and what that felt like, and then I was able to do that. So now I can do this. And then using another example from sport, I think about in high school basketball, I didn’t go to this school, I went to a different school. But I had two coaches with very, very different approaches and philosophies towards coaching. And I had one coach who really used fear as a motivator and I didn’t respond very well to that, but my other coach was much more focused on building relationships, being positive, caring about his players, also discipline as well. Like he was the tuck your shirt in type of guy, but I just responded so much better to the coach that really made the effort to build relationships and to serve his players and not lead with fear like the other coach. So that shaped me significantly in terms of how I approach
being an educator, being a leader and being a coach. I definitely move more towards being a relationship builder I think, or at least I try to be, and as much as I can being a servant leader.

Sam Demma
I can’t thank my coaches enough for the experiences they gave me in sports. I also had some absolutely phenomenal coaches who are foundational in my learning and growth and development, not only on the field, but also off the field as a human being.

Sam Demma
And I had some coaches whose style of leadership in some ways taught me what I don’t wanna do in terms of leading other human beings. And both were, I think both were valuable. You would talk about anti-fragility, this idea that we need challenges.

Sam Demma
I think one of the aspects of challenges a lot of people avoid these days are difficult conversations. You know, it’s hard to have certain conversations, but those are conversations that we need to have and they unlock so much opportunity and growth, personally, and within our relationships. You’re someone who has to have difficult conversations sometimes with students and also other staff members. How do you, how do you have a difficult conversation with someone that deep down you wish you didn’t have to have?

Richard Primrose
That’s a great question, Sam. I mean, I guess right from the outset, I’d say that they’re never going to be easy. They should challenge you and they shouldn’t feel natural, right? Those hard conversations.

Richard Primrose
But if I’m coaching students to have these conversations, it’s something I do myself is you have to be prepared. So the harder the conversation, the more time you should really think about exactly what you want to say, the points you want to make, even down to the point of if it’s a big one that you’re really feeling some trepidation about, getting someone who you trust who’s either a colleague or even a mentor and having a coaching type conversation with them before you even enter the conversation. One of the things that you can do entering a difficult conversation is you can really plan well how you want to open it and how you want to make the person feel as you start that conversation. And that’s important because if you make the person feel defensive or if you make them feel like they’re being attacked, that’s going to take the conversation down a path that is probably not going to lead to a positive outcome. So, you can control how you open up that conversation and make the other person feel. Now, where the conversation goes from there is where you have to be nimble and responsive. So, some of the advice I tend to give people as the conversations evolve is you have to really be focused on listening and trying to understand where the person is coming from when they are speaking.

Richard Primrose
Often, I think people go to a place of trying to think about their next move in the conversation or the next thing they’ll say, but really you have to move away from that as much as you can and try and be curious, ask open-ended, calibrating questions to the person and really find out where they’re coming from to try and get to a positive outcome as best you can. So those are a couple little tips I give my students when I’m working with them and coaching them on difficult conversations. The reality is very few people are masters of those conversations, and there are certainly tough ones that I have still, and often I will debrief after the conversation and can recognize things I would have done differently or things I said that maybe didn’t take it down the path that I wanted it to go. The key thing is preparation, going in really curious and asking questions, and reflecting and learning from those conversations as well. It does – it gets easier as you have experience with those conversations, but it never gets easy.

Sam Demma
It makes me think of the work of a stand-up comedian who prepares for their set, delivers it the best they possibly can, and then sits down with a blank piece of paper to rip apart how they said half of their jokes because they know they could do it better next time. And you do it over and over again. I’ve had a few difficult conversations in my life and it’s a skill that I’m continuously trying to improve. So I appreciate you sharing that information. I know that in a few hours here, you’re gonna be sitting in a student-led, student-created assembly. As you wrap up this conversation, do you wanna talk about that assembly very briefly and maybe some of the things you’re excited about into the new year?

Richard Primrose
Yeah, so this assembly is probably just the most fun, high-energy, crazy assembly we have at our school. So we have holiday dress all week long and kids are decked out in their tackiest Christmas sweaters today. There’s blinking lights everywhere,

Richard Primrose
Santa hats all over campus. And this is just a really fun one. Again, it’s going to be essentially emceed by our two head prefects. And they’re awesome. They’ve done a great job this year. But they run with it.

Richard Primrose
They’ve done the planning. And what you’ll see today is going to be, again, really fun, really engaging. It’s not going to be necessarily a polished professional level assembly, but it’s going to be great and you’re going to see the real work being done, like the authentic leadership in action from our students. So there’s lots of different student parts in the assembly.

Richard Primrose
Obviously we have students performing. And at our school, it’s a school tradition, we culminate with the 12 Days of Christmas song where each grade will sing one of the 12 days and for the grade 12s it’s almost a seminal moment in their career at SMU where they get to sing that 12th day Christmas and you’re going to see streamers flying and horns and drums, but what you actually see is pure joy from those grade 12s.

Richard Primrose
So it’s one of my favourite things we do at the school and I’m really excited about it. And in the new year, you know, well, I’m looking forward to more of that. Our grade 11 students are now thinking about What I kind of call our leadership season at the school. We have a whole program they go through in their grade 11 year building up to Applications to be leaders at the school whether that’s council heads Prefects which is our school leadership council or heads of houses for our boarders who live on campus and they will do an application, put their name forward, and ultimately, it’s students and faculty who vote on those positions. So it’s a democratic process that we have at our school. But for a lot of kids, they’re taking that courageous step right now to prepare their applications and put themselves out there and find out what that looks like.

Sam Demma
It sounds like an exciting time. I hope the assembly goes really well and the new year is off to an amazing start. Keep up the great work you’re doing, keep lacing up the running shoes when you have the time to do so and pushing those weights. And I hope to connect at some point in the new year. Richard, if someone is listening to this right now and they want to reach out or connect with you or have a conversation, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Richard Primrose
They can probably find me on our school website. That’s www.smus.ca and reach out that way. That’s probably the easiest way to get in touch with me. I’m always happy to engage in conversations around life at schools, leadership, anything I’ve talked about today.

Richard Primrose
So yeah, that’d be great. And thanks so much for having me, Sam. What a pleasure. You know, when you came to our school, the energy you brought was really incredible. So if anyone’s listening and thinking about bringing Sam in, he was great. So thanks so much for what you gave to our school community.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it. I’ll talk to you soon my friend. Keep up the good work.

Richard Primrose

Yeah, thank you Sam.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 6, 2025 by Education Educator School Administration 0

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