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Stacy Hovey – Vice-Principal at Holy Trinity Catholic High School

Stacy Hovey – Vice-Principal at Holy Trinity Catholic High School
About Stacy Hovey

Stacy Hovey is a Vice-Principal at Holy Trinity Catholic High School. She is a proud receipt of the Sovereign’s Medal for Volunteers awarded by the Governor General of Canada. Stacy lives out the life she believes in by prioritizing servitude. She began her teaching career in 2005 with the Ottawa Catholic School Board. In addition to her role as Teacher, Department Head and Vice-Principal, Stacy has written Curriculum for the Ministry of Education and has taught at the University of Ottawa in the Faculty of Education.

Stacy believes that all schools must support students to grow into the best versions of themselves. She stresses the importance of demonstrating authentic care and respect for everyone. As a leader in her school, Stacy emphasizes the importance of ensuring all staff members feel welcome, heard, valued and truly appreciated. In order for our educators to take excellent care of our students, Stacy believes we need to take excellent care of our educators.

Connect with Stacy: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Holy Trinity Catholic High School

Ottawa Catholic School Board

Sovereign’s Medal for Volunteers

University of Ottawa Faculty of Education

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam, and today I’m joined by a very special guest tuning in from Ottawa. Stacy Hovey is a vice principal with the Ottawa Catholic School Board. We met, I want to say, about a year ago now in the spring, and I’m so excited to have her on the show. She is a vice principal at Holy Trinity Catholic High School.

Sam Demma
Stacy, thank you so much for being here.

Stacy Hovey
Thanks for having me, Sam.

Sam Demma
Did you know when you were growing up that you wanted to work in education? I absolutely did not.

Stacy Hovey
When I was growing up, I wanted to have a job that made me as much money as I could possibly get my hands on. And then I realized when I got into that job that it wasn’t for me. And I quickly decided that money wasn’t going to be the end all be all. And I knew in my heart that I’d always loved the idea of working with kids and teaching young minds and molding young minds. So I took that path instead. And it has made me the most blessed and the most rich in ways that money could never buy.

Sam Demma
I had a mentor once tell me, money solves money problems, but those are the only problems it solves. And oftentimes in our search for meaning in life, we think that material possessions or status or money is going to fulfill us. And it couldn’t be further from the truth. Did you have someone in your life redirect you or was it a realization you had yourself when you started down that pathway?

Stacy Hovey
To be completely honest, I was redirected by God. I know that might sound a bit strange, but it was July the 4th, my birthday. I was in the United States celebrating because I’m clearly Miss America, and they already have a party there, so why not go? My mom brought me down, and we went to the Basilica, and while we were there, one of the statues, yeah, statues, winked at me. And I know statues don’t wink. And I thought I’d lost my mind. My mom thought I had heat stroke. I didn’t think much of it other than I’m clearly going crazy. My mom took down the name of the saint, which I didn’t. And when we came back home to Ottawa, my mother came running down the stairs one day with a piece of paper in her hand, and I thought she’d gone mad. But she said, Stacy, Stacy, you’re never gonna believe this. I said, what? She said, it’s the patron saint of teaching. I said, who’s the patron saint of teaching? What are you talking about? She said, the saint that winked at you when we were at the Basilica in New York. It’s the patron saint of teaching, Stacy. And I thought, oh my God, that is exactly what I, that’s what I gotta do. So I had a God moment.

Sam Demma
I just got goosebumps. Thank you for sharing that with me and with everyone who’s tuning in. I think when we’re open to guidance is when we receive it. So you must have been at a time period in your life where you were looking for a change or thinking about it or discerning it. And what a beautiful way to shift pathways and pivot.

Sam Demma
Did you always work in the Ottawa Catholic School Board? Tell me a little bit about your educational journey from that realization forward.

Stacy Hovey
So when I had that realization, I was in my undergrad and I was thinking how it’s going to be going into law. And it was when I worked at the law firm that I realized that law was not going to make me happy every day. And I knew that I needed a job that when I woke up in the morning and I came in, it was like Christmas for me. Christmas is my favorite time of year and I needed every day to feel good. I didn’t want to be one of those people who, you know, needed to call in sick or made a calendar that said I got to be off this day or that day or whatever. I just wanted to wake up every day and be happy and do something where I felt like I was really making a difference. And so, educationally, I made a shift and I went and pursued a bachelor in education. And I did all of that here in Ottawa, at the University of Ottawa. I’m a Gigi, go Gigi’s. And I started working with the OCSB about 20 years ago. I started as a teacher for 10 years. I was a department head of religious studies. And now I’ve been a vice principal for a decade.

Sam Demma
At what point in your educational journey did you also write curriculum for the Ministry of Education?

Stacy Hovey
Oh, I love that. That was a lot of fun. In the summertime, the Ministry of Education had contacted me because I was piloting some projects and courses here with the OCSB, with our First Nations and Uintah-Metis community, and they needed a huge revamp on all of our Aboriginal resources. And so I had the opportunity to go down to Toronto, and for a month I got to work there and write with an incredible team of people, elders, amazing, amazing people from really all around the nation and we were able to revive and revamp the curriculum so that students had real authentic experiences here in the classroom. And now, I mean, there has been such a shift. That started for me about 15 years ago and see the growth of that, to see land acknowledgements when I’m at a 67s game, for people to actually know what residential schools are. When I was teaching them, parents, kids were looking at me like, what are you talking about, Miss? That didn’t happen. You know, now it’s not just Orange Shirt Day, it’s we’re living a world where people are appreciating our culture, appreciating creation, and frankly, are going to take better care of it because it is on loan to us. This beautiful earth is on loan to us. We need to make sure that we do everything we can to treat it with the respect that it deserves so that it can be here and flourish for future generations.

Stacy Hovey
You know, little Sam’s in the future. We got to make sure that they’ve got everything that they need.

Sam Demma
Hey, I don’t know if you’re trying to encourage me to create some little Sam’s, but I’m not ready for that yet Stacy.

Sam Demma
But you’re right, you’re right. You’re no no Sam, then there’s me Sam.

Stacy Hovey
So I’m feeling like there’s got to be a little Sam coming along someday. I know you’re young but… When I was at the school it was so clear that everything you do is about supporting and serving the staff and students in the building and helping them reach their full potential and do their best job. What are some of the things you think have helped you create that culture in Holy Trinity School of Excellence and encouraging students and staff to do their best?

Stacy Hovey
Firstly, thank you. Thank you for saying that. That is an incredible compliment. And I have to tell you, servant leadership is the most important thing to me. I can’t, words don’t define how much it matters for me to be in a position of service to others. And you get that. I know you get that because looking at Be Someone’s Taco, chapter 11, action, serve others. And one of my favorite lines or phrases in your book on page 146, for all you readers who haven’t read this. You write. Some of the most meaningful experiences in life come from being of service to others. And we, Sam, could not be more like-minded in that capacity. I believe in a school community, you need to make sure that kids have everything they need. In order to do that, where do you need to start? You need to start with your educators, your front line. In order for my staff to be well, I need to make sure they’re well. I tell them all the time, and they would laugh if they were listening to this because they know exactly what I say. I say, you can’t pour from an empty cup, and if you don’t take care of your wellness, you are going to be forced to take care of your illness. So our job is to make sure that our teachers are in a position to help our students in every way. And their cups need to be full in order for them to do the best job that they can. So it’s a wraparound support.

Stacy Hovey
It’s a support like something as simple as, I walk by, someone’s not having the greatest day, so I do a U-turn, I go get them a coffee. I walk by, someone’s not having the greatest day, I take them the coffee and I kick them out of their classroom for 15 minutes so they can go for a walk. Like it’s simple things that you can do on a daily basis in a school to make sure your teachers feel heard, feel valued, feel appreciated. If you do that in a building, you’re creating a culture where everyone is going to do well.

Sam Demma
How do you ensure in your own life that your cup remains full so you can encourage others to do the same?

Stacy Hovey
My husband. That’s the first thing I think of. I could not do any of the things I do without my husband, Trevor Hudson. He is my rock. He is one of the greatest gifts God has ever given me. And I have absolutely no idea on this earth where I would be without him. He has given me two beautiful children and he is the one who makes sure I am able to do this work. And frankly, I wouldn’t even be here in the first place if it weren’t for my parents. My parents, Ron and Lena Villeneuve, let me tell you, they have taught me everything about how to simply be the best version of yourself, how to be a good person, how to treat others the way you want to be a servant leader. One quick story, my father, bless him. He said, you know, Stacy, how are things going at school? I said, well, we’re gonna be doing a food drive at the school I was working at the time.

Stacy Hovey
It was really low income, families were really in need. We wanted to create these beautiful Christmas baskets to help the family out. My family doesn’t come from a lot. We don’t have a lot in the financial department, so to speak. We’ve worked for everything that we’ve got and happy to say that and happy to do that. And one day I’m at work and the vice principal, he comes to get me and he says, there’s a food truck here and they’re here for you. I said, I’m sorry, what?

Stacy Hovey
And he says, it’s a food truck. I said, a food truck? He said, yeah, they’re unloading in the chapel. You need to come and see this. Food truck unloading in the chapel, what? So I make my way down and sure enough, there is a food truck unloading box upon box of fruits, apples, oranges, vegetables. And holy moly, it’s my dad. My dad went and talked to some local people, and his own money was able to arrange for a food truck to drop off all of these gifts for over 250 families.

Stacy Hovey
Who does that? It’s amazing that we live in a world where people like that make such a difference, but people like that are, oh my gosh, I forgot to turn off my walkie-talkie. I turned off everything, do not disturb.

Sam Demma
That’s okay, don’t worry.

Stacy Hovey
But I didn’t turn off this darn thing that tells me where to go and when there’s an emergency.

Sam Demma
They’re paging you to the front because there’s a food truck outside.

Stacy Hovey
Ha! Yeah, no, I wouldn’t put it past them, seriously. My dad’s just that kind of guy. So my parents have really been there for me all along and they fill my cup too. I would be, who takes my kids so that I can have a break, my mother. And then my husband takes me to the spa. So like they work together. That’s how I got space for both.

Sam Demma
Where did you get the passion for volunteerism? I know you were recently, you were awarded a medal for volunteerism from the government of Canada. Was that something that your parents instilled in you at a young age as well or something you discovered later in life?

Stacy Hovey
No, my daddy and my mommy, they would take me around, make sure whatever we needed to do was done. So, you know, food kitchens, making sure that people at Shepherds’ would hope here in Ottawa had what they need. My dad made sandwiches, like there was nobody’s business. He’s also like the best meatball maker in all of the world, so meatball sandwiches, but always helping out whoever didn’t have, you were to give. You just had to make sure that whoever was in need was taken care of. We never ever, my parents taught me, you never walk by a homeless person and don’t stop. You just don’t do it. Even you stop, you acknowledge them, you say hello. If you don’t have something in your pocket, that’s fine. You have kindness, you have a smile, you have time. You do what you can. You stop and do whatever you can do. So many times it would be bringing someone into McDonald’s or just talking to them or whatever. It was simple things. That’s how I was raised. And I continue that because for me, again, it’s that service. It’s living your life in a way that is wholesome.

Stacy Hovey
And so I started when I was very tiny, volunteering with a whole bunch of groups. I volunteered with Save the Children Canada, the Canadian Coalition for the Rights of the Child, Boys and Girls Clubs of Canada, you name it, I was in it. Nursing homes, oh, I have some of my best memories from nursing homes. We have lots of people in the community who just don’t get visitors. And Luigi is one of my greatest friends. I used to go and dance with him, the tarantella. There was no music, but we still danced. And I’ll never forget him. I’ve got lots of people in my life who I have been blessed to learn from. Elizabeth Seward, 104 years old, didn’t have any family members. So I used to go and bring her to church on Sundays and read to her. Rest her heart, you know. These are people who are just people who just need other people.

Stacy Hovey
I tell people all the time, we’re all brothers and sisters, you know?

Sam Demma
I spent the six weeks in Kenya and there was a massive protest happening in downtown Nairobi and we were fortunate to have a local connection who said, hey, early morning, we’re gonna come pick you up and drive you two hours out of downtown into a rural village where I grew up. And I’m gonna introduce you to family members of mine and friends, aunts and uncles. And first thing he said, we’d never go to the village empty-handed. So he stopped at the grocery store, we picked up a bunch of groceries to bring to his family, and a few hours later we arrive and we’re going through all these different homes. Stacy, goosebumps in every single home we stopped in. Every elder, every parent, every uncle and aunt prayed for us, prayed with us in their homes. And it was Kamata, Kamata was our driver, it was his uncle who sat us down. He used to be a history teacher, but he’s now retired. And he said, Where do we come from? And we were all sitting there and he goes, Adam, right? Adam and who and he started like questioning us about the story of Adam and Eve. And he said, if that’s if that’s the truth, and as Catholics, we believe it to be so, then every single one of us is related. We’re all brothers and sisters. And so when you do walk past that person on the street, they’re not just the homeless person. They’re a member of your family. How do you treat a member of your family with respect and kindness and dignity? And so I think it’s such a beautiful story you’ve shared about your father and how your parents have instilled that value of volunteering and of service in you as a child. It reminded me of my grandfather while you were speaking and I was getting a little emotional myself just listening. It’s such a beautiful story and it’s beautiful that you’ve carried that energy into the work you’re doing in education.

Sam Demma
What do you think are some of the things that students need now more than ever? There’s a lot of challenges in the world and there’s so much noise. Students are struggling. What do you think they need these days?

Stacy Hovey
Simple acceptance, non-judgment, and unconditional love. It’s our bad. We’re not born bad. Sometimes you got a kid, I’m the vice principal and up in my office. They’re not a bad kid. They’ve made a bad choice, it doesn’t define them as bad. The decision they made, not so great. But them, great. They need to know that there are such things as second chances, third chances. They need to know that it’s okay to not be okay. They need to know why whatever they did wasn’t right. You need to explain that to them. Walk them through it. Teach them. In a school, we don’t just teach curriculum. We teach character. We teach kids how to be and how to live and how to participate in this world. And so, for me, I say to even parents, they’re so upset, they’re so angry, they can’t believe that their child has done A, B, C, or D. And then the child leaves. And my advice to them is, go home and hug them. Love them. Yes, they might have done something that you’re not proud of. I get it. However, they will always be your son. They will always be your daughter. You are going to need to give them that love.

Stacy Hovey
And I feel like, oh my gosh, Thomas Groom said once upon a time, parents have become so open-minded, their brains have fallen out. I don’t necessarily believe that to be true all the time, but sometimes I get it. And so the reminder to me and my reminder to parents is they’re always going to be your baby. How are you gonna treat your baby? Right? So for me, loving them no matter what, no matter what they’ve done, the good, the bad, the ugly, and making sure they know it. So they don’t go to bed feeling shame and guilt every day. It’s huge, huge.

Sam Demma
I couldn’t agree more. I think even reminding ourselves to give that love to ourselves, because so often we’re our own toughest critic. And I beat myself up sometimes and I had a mentor, he said, Sam, hold your hand over your heart, like feel the heartbeat a few times, give that person love. I was like, it sounded silly, but in moments where things are falling apart or I can’t control certain circumstances and I’m allowing myself to feel certain emotions because of that, I think about those words and his suggestion and it brings me a lot of peace. And I get so many messages from students, and not only students, also staff members that are feeling challenged or burnt out, and they just don’t know the first step to take to, I guess, bring themselves back to a place of self-love and compassion. And I’m curious, have you had any periods in your own career where you felt challenged or a little bit burnt out? And in those moments, how do you, like, how did you get out of them?

Stacy Hovey
Oh gosh, absolutely, 100%. Like I said, it’s okay to not be okay. And to be honest with you, this last few weeks have been probably the most challenging of my career. One of our students was taken from us in a violent act that’s being investigated by the police. And one of our former students, and I am wearing blue today in his honour, his funeral and services are happening tomorrow. And when you lose a student, especially through tragedy in a capacity that no student should ever be lost, person should ever be lost, senselessness, it’s very, very difficult. And so, as a community of grievers, you know, we have so much support. Our school board made sure the troops were here to support the students, support the staff. And for me, part of that is just leading by example. We created a document to make sure every kid who needed to speak to a counselor had the opportunity to do so. And then I said to the counselors, I said, once all the kids have been seen, I’m gonna write in this document, staff, and I’m putting my name. And I did. There’s the school bell.

Stacy Hovey
And I did that not only because I actually needed the support, because I do, and I did, but I also did that because I wanted people to know, if they saw the document and they saw my name, it’s okay for Stacy to get help, it’s okay for me to put my name down and for me to get help too. The kids first, of course, but then us. Because really, truly, we at that front line need that help. So I would say taking care of your wellness is huge. You have to find what works for you. For me, reading works, walking works. Sometimes walking turns into jogging, not too far though. 5k is like my maximum capacity. Cooking for me is a thing. I find therapeutic. My husband knows when I am like in a mood or a situation when all of a sudden there’s a whole bunch of things coming out of the oven or on the stove at the same time. I think you just have to find your thing. But I also think you need to know that if you need support that is beyond somebody you love and care for, that is professional support, you should not feel shame or guilt in getting that. We need to have people that we can talk to and that’s what those people are for. And I cannot imagine how anyone could go through this life without needing some sort of support. And believe me, that is me included.

Stacy Hovey
Amen.

Sam Demma
I say it all the time, courage is not carrying the challenges alone. Courage is reaching out for the support when you need it most. And there’s been so many moments in my life where if I didn’t reach out for the support, I wouldn’t have been in a good space. I wouldn’t have, I wouldn’t have known how much other people love and care about me at times, you know? And I think it was a realization I had partway through the start of my own career because I had a coach for three years and COVID hit and things fell apart and I called him bawling my eyes out. And something he did that was so beautiful too is he didn’t try and solve my problem, he just stayed on the phone for like 40 minutes and I was talking the whole time. And only until the end of the call was I like, hey, can you help me with this? Or what are your thoughts? And I thought what a beautiful lesson he taught me that day, most of the time people would just need a shoulder to lean on or an ear to listen. They’re not, you know, sometimes even looking for a solution. And I think that’s so beautiful.

Sam Demma
And I’m so sorry to hear about the loss in the community. That’s absolute tragedy. And I hope everyone finds peace in the situation however they can. I’ll be keeping the community in my prayers. And I’m so inspired by you and this conversation. If there’s another educator who’s listening to this and wants to reach out to you or get the meatball sandwich recipe, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Stacy Hovey
The only social media I have literally is Twitter. So I have an email account, of course, but Twitter would be the best way. So it’s @sthovey. And I would be more than happy to pass out my dad’s meatball recipe or talk or do whatever anybody needs. I’m all about filling the cup as much as possible. And honestly, Sam, it’s been my pleasure. You really are absolutely incredible. From the second you walked into this school with that backpack that was unbelievably ginormous, and taking the time to empty it and remind me. You know, there are so many places in your book that, you know, I found myself stopping and very literally tagging pages because there were things that I thought, wow, does that ever connect with me? So I feel like you’re going to be one of those people, A, anybody who meets you, they’re never going to forget you, ever. And B, it’s people like you who are going to make our world what we really want it to be, a world filled with service.

Sam Demma
I receive that. Thank you so much. I can’t express my gratitude enough for you taking the time for this conversation, for the work you’re doing. I look forward to crossing paths again soon. And until then, keep up the amazing work, keep filling people’s cups and bringing them coffees when they need it. Keep leading with your heart and I’ll see you soon, my friend.

Stacy Hovey
Absolutely will.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Stacy Hovey

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

October 31, 2024 by Education Educator Mental Health 0

Greg McLean – Principal of Sacred Heart Catholic School in Bruce Grey County

Greg McLean - Principal of Sacred Heart Catholic School in Bruce Grey County
About Greg McLean

Greg McLean (@WalkertonGreg) has been in the educational field for the past 28 years as a teacher, school administrator and instructor for Niagara University and Catholic Principals Council of Ontario. Greg has worked in 9 schools and in 3 different school boards and is currently the principal of Sacred Heart, Mildmay after a year of being the principal of St Isidore Virtual School, the first-ever virtual school in Bruce-Grey Catholic District School Board!

Greg graduated from Laurier with a Certificate in Positive Psychology this past year and also obtained a certification as a Life and Wellness Coach. He is also a musician (drummer, vocals and guitar) and has performed live over 300 times in a variety of venues over the past 20 years. Greg is also a community-minded individual who embraces volunteerism- being a member of the local Optimist Club and a volunteer at the food bank, Victoria Jubilee Hall and Special Olympics. Greg also advocates for individuals with Down Syndrome- helping others to see their abilities.

Greg has been married to his wonderful partner Jayne for 26 years and has three children, Abby, Lucas and Dashiel. The family resides in beautiful Walkerton, ON.

Connect with Greg: Email | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Catholic Principals Council of Ontario

Laurier Certificate in Positive Psychology

A Slice of Brockton (Greg’s Podcast)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Greg, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today from Brockton start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about who you are?


Greg McLean (00:10):
Well, my name is well, first of all, thank you for introducing me as a high performing educator. That’s awesome. My, my name is Greg McLean and I work as a principal in the Bruce Gray Catholic district school board. I reside in the town of Walkerton that sits in Brockton. So Brockton’s municipality and Walkerton’s a town in there. The same Walkerton that endured that water crisis back in 2000 best water in Ontario, right? This is what we say. And I’ve been in education. This is, is my 29th year and I’ve been a principal for the past 15. So we’re looking at about a 50 50 split and I’ve got a family. My wife Jane is a guidance counselor at sacred heart high school. I have three children, well adult children now. My oldest is 24 and resides in, in Guelph and is working time. Yay. And my middle child, my son is 22 residing at Toco. And my youngest boy is 16 years old and he’s in grade 11 at the local high school at sacred heart where my wife works.


Sam Demma (01:14):
That’s awesome. Very cool. And as educators, we always preach the importance of lifelong learning. There’s never a day you stop learning. And I understand that you’re someone who, when the COVID initially hit, took it upon yourself to actually obtain more education. Can you please explain how that process unfolded and what you set out to learn and achieve?


Greg McLean (01:36):
Well, sure. First of all, yeah, like lifelong learning. I think if you’re in the education world, you’re forced with lifelong learning, but I don’t wanna use the word force because I’m thinking that the vast majority of people who get into education are, are lifelong learning by choice. And whether it’s a course an AQ course so that you can teach a different course or it’s something that’s just something you’re really interested in. We, we, we kind of attract those, those people. It it’s actually a character, character strength to have a love of learning. And it’s actually a Catholic graduate expectation, lifelong learner. So yeah. Putting all those together. Yeah. Like during the pandemic, I mean, it was really, really easy for people to get down and to get you know, that sense of being you know, I don’t, I’m gonna say hopeless, but cabin fever.


Greg McLean (02:25):
But just knowing like what, what do you do to, to feel good in this and, and mentally well, and I think one of those things that you can do and that I’ve learned is that, you know, obviously part of self-care is, is, you know, having hobbies and things that you can do. And so part of the spirit of my lifelong learning as I kind of went back to school and I got a certificate Laia university in positive psychology which is kinda the study of all the stuff I just talked about. Yeah. And spent the year learning about how to live your best life knowing that your best life isn’t avoiding stress and avoiding problems. It’s actually how to deal with them in a really healthy way, because that’s the price of admission, right? Discomfort’s the price of admission. You just have to learn how to, to, to manage it and, and to, to thrive as opposed to, you know, just languishing. So, and then just this past year, I worked on getting my life and wellness certification coach. So I’m gonna try to at all those things together and you know, kind of push that forward and, and hopefully serve serve my community and the people around me.


Sam Demma (03:26):
That’s amazing. When you say positive psychology how do you explain that to somebody or like when, when you use that term, what does it mean?


Greg McLean (03:37):
Well, I guess there is a catch phrase. I, I kind of used it before. It’s like the study of use of living your best life, like how to live your best life. So that’s how you kind of boil it down. I think there’s psych, when you think about psychology, you might think about what’s wrong with you. Right. But cause of psychology is the study of what’s right with you. Ah, and it’s so much right with us and it’s also about mindset. So the good news is that in the education world, I was able to bring that perspective in the course at all times to say, you know what, I’m really affirmed right now because some of this stuff that I’m learning about, we’re actually doing like the Mo the positive you know, mindset work by Carol Dweck. Right. How important that mindset is in, in resilience and overcoming adversity.


Greg McLean (04:21):
I mean, we’re talking about that right now. Right. We’re back into another adverse moment. So you know what, where’s your mindset. And I mean, let’s not be Pollyannaish here, right? Like pandemic’s a pandemic and job loss and job loss and, and, and, and sickness and illness and death. Aren’t, aren’t positive things, but it’s like a acknowledging that, and it’s okay to not be okay, but what can you do to get out of being not okay? And you can, and we are all, we’re all skilled and we’re all gifted that way. We just sometimes just don’t know it.


Sam Demma (04:52):
And it’s obvious you have a passion for learning, teaching, sharing, which makes you a phenomenal person to get into the vocation of education. How did you, how did you determine you wanted to become a teacher when you were a kid and someone asked you, Greg, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Did you always say a teacher, a principal, someone in education, or how did you discover this path?


Greg McLean (05:14):
Say, I don’t know anybody who starts by saying they wanna be a principal. I don’t know. I don’t know about that. Well, you know, it’s funny because my, I feel like my life has been very serendipitous in the sense that I don’t, I don’t think like some other people, they just have a life track and they’ve got this vision about what they want to do. And, and although as a kid, I do remember getting satisfaction from teaching someone, something, whether it’s a, a skill or something like, you know, you’re working together of the group of kids and you’re one of the kids and those kids get it cuz of something you did or said, and there’s, there’s immense joy and satisfaction in that. And, and certainly obviously that resides in me somewhere because I wouldn’t have gone the root of, of, of, of being a teacher. I disappointed my mom. You know, I think for about three weeks when I was in grade three, I did declare I was thinking about being a priest being in the priesthood. But as I said, that was a three week three week dream and, and with a broken dream for my mom she wanted grandkids.

Greg McLean (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that’s what I said. The good news is you got grandkids out of it. Right. and so yeah, like, I mean, going through high school, same, the same thing, right? It’s this niggling thing at the back of your head? I don’t think I was necessarily convinced that that that’s what my, my pathway was. I certainly liked music. I’ve always liked music. And my life, my, my career journey basically is a mesh of, of, of music and, and of, of like leadership and of teaching. Like it all kind of, kind of coalesced and, and again, it evolves and, and, and sometimes it’s, you’re taking specific steps towards it. And other times, again, as I said, it’s serendipitous things just appear before you, but if you were talking to my wife, she’s, she wouldn’t say things don’t just appear, you manifest them with your thinking. So I give her a huge shout out Jane, because certainly from my, the lifelong learning thing, I mean, yep. I can take certain courses, but, but she’s got a real pension for this mind, body spirit avenue that I’m kind of going in towards knowing that it’s of such a benefit to, to everybody.


Sam Demma (07:11):
That’s amazing. I couldn’t agree more. So explain the path that you did take and how you did end up where you are today.


Greg McLean (07:23):
Well I love to say that, oh, I mean, I have heritage a hundred percent heritage in Newfoundland. I’m a, I’m a, a Newfoundlander by heart, but I wasn’t born there. Yeah. I, I basically from my beginnings of being schooled and living in, in Georgetown, not too, not too far away from Pickering you know what, I always have been a believer in. I’ve always gone to Catholic school. I’ve always been a believer of, of the Catholic schools. My parents have been people have always promoted cause I have to pay actually tuition in high school to continue to go to a, to a Catholic school. But, but basically my, my journey into high school where I loved music and I, I loved, I guess I had, again, I set that pension somewhere in there for teaching all came together because eventually as I applied to teachers college, I got accepted and moved to Bruce Gray, moved to Walkerton.


Greg McLean (08:20):
It was a call I got from a superintendent in the middle of, of August looking for a music teacher. Now, I’ll be honest with you. I love music, but I don’t, I don’t have a music background in terms of a degree. I played the drums. I played the drums in the school band, Cardinale school band in the, in the mid to, to late eighties. And and I guess that, that superintendent happened to be my vice principal at the time said, oh, band equals music teacher, which it, it doesn’t really, I mean, it opened the door, but I mean, the first, first little bit was a struggle. And I, I never actually saw myself as a music teacher until probably about four or five years after the fact where I’m going. I, I had that realization that moment where I’m going, I am right, because before I was either thinking I’m gonna get out of this, or I don’t know enough about this, but somehow through self-teaching and absorption.


Greg McLean (09:10):
And the fact that the kids were so excited to learn an instrument, like kind of pushed me to learn it. And then, you know, we had bands and we were going to music festivals and we were doing quite well, and I’m going, you know what, I teach grade seven, eight, but I am a music teacher. And I was really proud of that because that’s unlike math or science or, or, you know art or, well, art, I’m gonna keep art of that. But these are, those are passions of, I think the mind and music is of the heart and, and to be able to have that it’s a real gift to see kids get that gift and to be excited about teaching music. So somehow that ended up me getting a job teaching at Bruce Gray Catholic district school board. And you know, what about halfway through the career? About 15 years later, it became a principal and, and in leadership and that’s a different story.


Sam Demma (09:55):
Of course. So your journey was slightly unexpected. When you were thinking about, you know, getting into jobs in the workforce what was the other options on your mind? Like what the other things you were thinking about?


Greg McLean (10:13):
That’s a good question. We won’t count the grade three example. What we, I actually thought about music production. So I actually was accepted at haw college for music production. Wow. I also thought fleetingly about being a pilot. Oh, wow. And but those two are the kind of the areas coming out of grade 11 and grade 12 that I kind of thought of. And you know, it’s like a lesson to, to people maybe listening if they’re in high schools, like I avoided physics because I thought it would be too hard and I didn’t really give myself a chance. And and because I didn’t take the physics meant I didn’t take other courses. And therefore kind of that pilot thing kind of was chosen out for me. Right. And that’s too bad because I mean, we don’t live in, we don’t live in regret, but I’m thinking that that was a, a pathway that was shut down because I shut myself down and, and I, I would’ve been able to do it.


Greg McLean (11:09):
Right. I think about my, my head self now is like, no, Greg, you would’ve been able to do that. Like, don’t sell yourself short. Right. So those are some of the other areas I, I would was I was certainly thinking about, and of course, and, and teaching, and, you know, back to a conversation earlier, before the recording started Sam, like you talked about, you know, even now, like no one I think gets into the business, wanting to be a principal when you start in an education, maybe some people, but, but it’s, as you go along, it’s, it’s the, the higher level view of what you want for kids that are around you in the school, around you. Whereas a classroom teacher, you are, you are responsible for those 25 or 30 kids in that, you know when you begin to look at the higher view of all the kids and the building and the, the you know, how well people are and how much fun people and how, how people are learning is when you start going, okay, well maybe that’s where maybe that’s my, in my sphere of influence needs to be beyond 25 people, but 300 or 400 people.


Sam Demma (12:07):
Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned not shutting yourself down for potential opportunities. It’s not only relevant to people in high school, closing yourself off. I think it’s relevant to all human beings, whether you’ve been teaching for 50 years or not, there might be something you wanna do. And if your mind talks you out of it, there’s 0% chance it’s gonna happen. So I think it’s, it’s an important lesson for all on the topic of you know, things that are helpful, pieces of advice, mindset shifts. What have you found beneficial in helping you show up as your best self in your day to day job at school? Are there any books, resources, programs you’ve went through that helped you as an educator or someone that worked in schools?


Greg McLean (12:56):
I don’t know if there’s been one resource. And as I had mentioned, like there were some of the things that we were doing in schools for a long, for a little while now, at least for 10 or 12 years, if not longer, that help with that kind of positive psychology, we were calling it positive psychology with the kids, like the fact that we do guided meditations with, with kids. Yeah. And we do mindfulness with kids and, you know you know, we talk about mindset and those sorts of things. That’s been helpful for me as well, because not only am I learning about as an adult to help the kids, but I’m learning about it as an adult to help myself. Yeah. So that work all the way through. Now we’re, we’re a little bit more fortunate than say 20 years ago where we didn’t have the same mental health support 20 years ago.


Greg McLean (13:38):
I don’t know if we needed, had the same mental health need. I don’t, I don’t have the data on that, but the fact that I work with professionals who are in the, in the you know, the know about these things is also incredible. I’ve learned a little, like a lot about that. And certainly just a speaking with my wife today about a, a new book that I’d really like to read that Torene brown has just released. And she talks about emotions. I think it’s something about Atlas of emotions or something like that. Don’t quote me on that. I’m gonna look it up, but it’s really fascinating cuz she talks about 87 emotions and I’m thinking and she says that, you know, most adults can only name that they’ve experienced three or four emotions. And to know that there are 87 and what do you do with that information?


Greg McLean (14:17):
The fact that you know yourself that way, and you’ve got that language and then how does that, how does that benefit you? Right. So there’s always things there’s always things to learn and kind of the pathway kinda opens up as you go, right? Like it’s like, you’ve got this flashlight and you’re seeing as far as the flashlight can go, but that the outer edge of the flashlight it’s still opening up for you. Right. So it’s, it’s good stuff. I’ve been very fortunate to be in education because I can’t imagine how much less I would know if I wasn’t in education.


Sam Demma (14:43):
Yeah. So true education is a, a seed planting career, a seed planting vocation sometimes, you know, your actions plant a seed in somebody else who you may never realize the growth of you. They may be far gone out of the school building when you see the growth happen, but sometimes the seeds you plant and a student and a staff member and we that we plant in each other, you have the opportunity to see it grow and flourish in front of, and it’s really spectacular and cool. And it’s a very fulfilling feeling when you think of the students who you’ve seen grow and transform over the past 29 years and all different schools you’ve been in. Are there any stories that come to mind of a student who first came and wasn’t their best set or striving to live their best life and, and somehow had a transformation. And if you do, would you be willing to share this story?


Greg McLean (15:39):
Yeah. I might speak in some generalities as opposed to like naming anyone, but of course from, from an elementary school standpoint, I, I mean, that’s a really great stance to have is to know that you’re potentially planting a seed. And you’re not gonna, you may not see that. And that’s the, that’s the faith piece because you, you, you, you are doing what you can in grade one. Like people might remember the grade one teacher, but they’re not gonna remember the content. They’re not gonna remember all the songs that they sang. They’re gonna remember that. So, and so was a love, loving, caring person. That’s a pretty good seed to plant love care. The virtues, you know, like those things are super important and the importance of relationship, but, but when you run into students and you see them three or four, like, okay, so for me, we’re in a small area kind of a rural area.


Greg McLean (16:31):
And we recycle a lot of, of our grads back into education, which I think I, I take as like a real feather in the cap for what we’re doing because we, a lot of our young teachers and EAs and support people are people that were students. And now I’ve been in it long enough that they’re coming back as students and they’re coming back as employees. So I have a co you know, I have people on staff who’ve, I’ve, I’ve worked with or worked with their parents. Oh. Or I’ve known their parents. And, and thinking back to what that student, when, and I’ve been primarily a grade seven, eight teacher when I was teaching to think about the kids that struggled and then finding out that a couple of ’em own their own businesses. A couple of them you know, work at Bruce power here locally, which is, you know, a great, a great career to have.


Greg McLean (17:13):
And, and thinking that, you know, at the time, maybe in the back of your mind, you were thinking, wow, what’s this guy, what’s this person gonna do. Right. Like, I, you know, you don’t see that, but that’s a back of your mind thing. And if you keep in the front of your mind at all times that, you know, it’s a work in progress. And what you’re seeing now is like a brushstroke and the painting’s not done. Yeah. That has to keep, and you have to keep reminding yourself of that because there are times you’re going to come up against some challenging, challenging behaviors and, and, and, you know, and people, who’ve got some life circumstances working against them, but that’s what education’s all about. You know, Catholic education, that moral purpose, right? Like we’re here to kind of, even up the playing field. Right.


Greg McLean (17:50):
You’re I always say we’re here for all the kids, but we’re, we’re there for some, a little bit more than everyone. It’s like, kinda like an analogy of going to the doctor. Does everyone go to the doctor? No. and some people need a doctor more often than other people. Right. So you think of yourself in teaching an education as you go to the people that you need to bringing the faith piece back into, it was, you know, who did Jesus minister to like, wasn’t the rich and famous wasn’t the people who were doing well. It was people that weren’t so like, let’s, let’s emulate what we’re doing there in, in education. And, you know, I mean, it’s worked for me.


Sam Demma (18:21):
Yeah. I love the philosophies. Thanks for sharing. When you think of 29 years all the experiences you’ve gained, the people you’ve met, the people who have poured into you and helped you become the school leader you are today. If you could wrap it all up, it’s a hard question. Go back, walk into your first year of teaching, walk into that classroom, look at your younger, as he was doing his job. What advice would you give knowing what you know now and what the experience you have?


Greg McLean (18:59):
Wow. You’re right. That’s a good question. That’s hard. That’s a tough one. That’s, that’s a question I’m gonna include on my podcast, by the way that I’m gonna, if you could go back to your younger self yeah. You know what, that’s, that’s, that’s a great reflective, I think number one is to tell myself, you, you can do it, have faith in yourself. You’re resourceful. You’re whole, you’re talented. You’re you, you’re perfect as you are. And just embrace that and that lets you go, cuz I didn’t think so when I was first starting, right. I’m thinking, you know, you’re a confident which is again, maybe the, not a natural, but to know that, you know, you’re doing the best, you’re bringing the best. And if all your, if you’re bringing your best at every single moment, like, you know who you can be, then you have to take, you have to be happy with that and have be satisfied with that and be kind to yourself about it.


Greg McLean (19:48):
I think the other piece is, is, is the, is the kindness for other or love for others? And I certainly have come from evolve you know, evolved in my depth of understanding of what that looks like. And, and not just an education standpoint, but just in, in a relationship standpoint is, is, is knowing that if you’re, I always thought I was empathetic, but I think I I’ve grown my empathy. Knowing that you can’t always account for what people are bringing in behind them. And what you’re seeing is just face value and there’s so much more behind them that you don’t know about. And, and so don’t make assumptions and just, just, you know, love one and love them for who they are. And, and you don’t try not, you know, try to be like, not judgemental, I guess, or, or you don’t shut anyone down. Right. That’s I think that would be it like those open, maybe some like an open kind of vision towards all people.


Sam Demma (20:40):
Love it. Cool. And if someone is listening to this right now and was inspired, intrigued, curious to learn more, what would be the best way for them to reach out to you and get in touch? And by the time this comes out, you might even have your own podcast. So maybe they’re gonna reach out about that show also. So please share some contact information.


Greg McLean (21:00):
Okay, well contact information let’s start with email: gregmcle@icloud.com. You could also find me on Twitter at @WalkertonGreg and also I have a Facebook presence, just look up Gregory, J McClean. And I’d love to hear from people who’ve heard this and have a question or wanna talk to me about being a priest when they’re in grade three.


Sam Demma (21:29):
Sounds good, Greg. Thank you again for coming on the show. This was awesome. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.


Greg McLean (21:35):
Thanks very much for featuring this. And it was great to talk to you as well.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Greg McLean

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 9, 2022 by Experiential Learning Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Peter Prochilo – Superintendent of School Effectiveness, Sudbury Catholic District School Board

Peter Prochilo
About Peter Prochilo

Peter Prochilo (@PeterProchilo) is currently a Superintendent of Education with the Sudbury Catholic District School Board. His portfolio includes the supervision of all Secondary Schools, Secondary Curriculum, Alternative and Adult Education, International Education and the Remote/Virtual School

Peter leads with a passion for equity of access and enhanced student pathways as he supports students, staff and school communities as they collectively strive for improved outcomes for all. 

Connect with Peter: Email | Twitter | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Time Blocking

Marzano’s Evaluation Method

It’s all in your head

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high-performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Peter Prochilo. Peter is currently a superintendent of education with the Sudbury Catholic district school board. His portfolio includes the supervision of all secondary schools, secondary curriculum, alternative and adult education, international education, and the remote slash virtual school. Peter leads with a passion for equity of access and enhance student pathways. As he supports students, staff, and school communities, as they collectively strive for improved outcomes for all. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Peter. It was an engaging one with lots of actionable ideas and insights.


Sam Demma (00:45):
Peter, welcome to the high-performing educator podcast. Each pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about your upbringing and what brought you to where you are today?


Peter Prochilo (01:39):
Okay. Thanks Sam. Good to be here. So my name is Peter Prochilo and i’m the superintendent of education for the Sudbury Catholic district school board with primary responsibilities around secondary programming in schools. So my educational journey began back, I guess when we can go further way back started with my, one of my older sisters being an educator and, and watching what she was doing I’m the youngest of five. And there was a large gap between me and that sister. And so I watched her and the joy education and working with children and young adults brought her. And that was sort of my, my end, if you will. And then through university, it just became more and more clear through my involvement either in coaching various sports and just my involvement in the community that it was, it was going to be my path. And so that brings me to, you know, education. I had 26 years as a, as a teacher and then a special education resource teacher consultant program principal and school principal, and then the arose to apply to my present position here in Sudbury. And it became a big big shift at at my age to to take that leap and take that leap and come and take on this role and the challenges of the role. And it’s been it’s been great.


Sam Demma (03:19):
Wow. That’s amazing. And aside from your own sister, which must’ve been a huge inspiration and motivation for you, do you recall other educators or teachers that you had when you were a student that also played a pivotal role in your, you know, your own development as a student, but maybe even inspired you to consider education as well?


Peter Prochilo (03:39):
For sure. I think a lot of those came during my years in high school where we had a number of teachers that you know, it was sort of that unwritten rule. I didn’t need to be set. They were there for students. And we were able to students were able to connect with them and B became, they became mentors if you will. And then they and, and so they were, there were some go-to people that definitely paved the way, if you will, to see what, what a career in education would be like and, and what that looks like to help others. And so at that stage, it became for me realizing that, you know, educators are really the, the gatekeepers of equity and my friends and I, my, my peer group at that time were from a certain socioeconomic status.


Peter Prochilo (04:36):
And we were able to see how, regardless of your background, regardless of where you come from everyone was treated equally. And, and I was lucky to be in a school that that was espoused, but, you know, certainly for the mentors that I reflect back on as mentors, they were really championing that idea of equity before it became it became an entity, as we know it today, right. Being immersed in curriculum, immersed in policy they were living, they were living that idea of equity. It doesn’t matter. Who’s in front of me who comes through that door, we’re all treated the same and they should all have the same opportunities to succeed.


Sam Demma (05:22):
That’s amazing. And when you think about those educators that also had a big impact on you personally, like, what do you think they did for you? Like if you had to think back, and you’re not that old, so you can definitely think back to high school for a quick second, but if you had to put yourself back into a high school classroom, like, what do you think teachers do or can do to make sure that their students feel seen, heard and appreciated and, you know, make an impact on the students in their classroom? And what did your students do for you or your teachers do for you?


Peter Prochilo (05:54):
Well, I think, you know, reflecting back, I can, I can identify it now, but in the moment it was just accessibility. They were accessible. I think when you, when I reflect back on what it means to me now is that they were really showing their humanity. Right. We saw these people in the community, they were my coaches for soccer. They were like, we’ve seen them in, you know, community events or my church, or, you know what I mean? Like they showed the human face of service really, in a nutshell, they were, they were really exemplary in putting themselves forward. And we knew, you know, even at that age and everyone comes from different backgrounds, everyone has different experiences. Everyone has different challenges. Everyone is carrying things with them that we may not know right. Or that they’re dealing with, but they came into that classroom and that building everyday best foot forward, smile on their face. It’s old time, you know what I mean? I’m really cool with that. But it was like, it was, it was game time for them. Right. And so they knew being in that space, what they, what they could meet to the students that they serve. And that really shine through because you can see the, you can easily see the difference between those that ended up being mentors of mine, to those that were not as approachable.


Sam Demma (07:16):
Yeah. I think that’s really important, you know, making your students aware that you’re there for them and that you have time for them. My, one of the things my teacher did that had a huge impact on me was get to know me on a personal level so much so that he could understand my motivation for being in his class, right. For every student, the reason you might be sitting in biology class is different. One student might want to become a scientist. Maybe I just want to take biology so I could get into kinesiology in university. Like every student had a different reason. And if you know, the reason why a student is sitting in your class, it allows you to, you know, appeal to their motivation and interests. Yeah, accessibility getting to know the student were things that had a huge impact on me as well. So thank you for sharing that. What do you think are some of the challenges we’re faced with an education right now? I mean, obviously because of COVID, there are some huge ones. But what do you think are some of the challenges we’re faced with and what are some of the opportunities within the challenging?


Peter Prochilo (08:15):
I’m glad you said that Sam, because I see COVID as presenting, of course, the challenges that we all have come to understand, but it also provides a lot of opportunities, a lot of opportunities to meet those challenges. And one of the big challenges that we’re dealing with now, and I keep coming back to the idea of equity is, is equity of access. And so it’s really important in my role and for my colleagues and for all of our system leaders and school leaders is to really look at what are what are the, what are the impediments to equity of access in a remote situation when we’ve had to cycle into remote learning and you, it really becomes a parent students that, that need need more support than others. And there’s that you’re, you’re trying to try to bridge that gap, right.


Peter Prochilo (09:06):
In terms of providing and providing access, whether it be access to technology access to, to us. And just making sure that you are always acting as a community, right? Because you, you, you tend to a situation like COVID can quickly make people think in a, more of a siloed situation, right? This is, you know, this is my department, this is what I do. And the trick has been the push has been to make sure that everyone acts continues to act and they do to act as though we’re all, we’re all together because it’s more important to be together. Especially during this time, the opportunity comes in the realization that we’ve been able to very quickly and effectively leverage technology. And so for the last 10 years in education, we’ve been looking for ways to effectively use technology in a classroom setting.


Peter Prochilo (10:07):
Face-To-Face whether you’re a fan of Marzano’s work on, you know, the triad and using technology one, you know, one piece of technology for three students working collaboratively. And now you, you see that a lot of that change has that a lot of that shift has to happen because students are either at home working right. And trying to connect. And so the beauty came out in leveraging technology effectively to maintain that community feeling. And I think that’s one of the successes that, that shines through whether it was students in the elementary panel that had a complete remote school, and may we still partnered them with their homeschool. So they have that, that connectivity, and even for secondary students, right. Because in my, in my specific role, we’re going to go into this year where students have high school students that have a four year career, I’ve had two years jumping in and out of remote situation.


Peter Prochilo (11:04):
Yeah. And so now the opportunity is to really, when they come back face to face is to really, you know, show them what that community is all about because it’s been disjointed. Right. And so the opportunity and the challenge, you know, two-sided coin, the challenge is to you know, of course, all of our colleagues and, and, and my staff are ready to do so is to welcome them back with open arms, make them feel you know, deal with that, that, that little bit of trepidation, that little bit of anxiety will coming back face-to-face and really using that as an opportunity to showcase what a school community can be. All can be all about point.


Sam Demma (11:48):
Yeah. That’s awesome. And what personally, what personally motivates you every day to continue doing this work?


Peter Prochilo (11:57):
You must have a personal driver as well. They wakes you up and keeps you going as well. Yeah. It’s a number of things, but primarily that, that idea of being a guardian of equity, right. That’s the piece for me that, you know, it’s kind of the lens. I see a lot of problems through, you know, where, where is the equity piece in this? How can we make sure that the challenges challenges are met with that, with that lens you know, we have a group of students will always have a group of students that will do very well. We’ll always have a group of students that need extra support, but sometimes I find from my own experience is that we really need to connect with all students and making sure that they all have voice choice and see themselves as learners. Right. And it’s not only, and so you’re thinking not only for these four years that we have them in high school, but we need to help all of them see themselves or the next part, right. You’re preparing them for a few weeks that you, we may not see, but you, you, you want to make sure that we give them all the, all the tools that they need to make those choices. And, and to know that they’re better for having had us in their lives through grandiose.


Sam Demma (13:23):
Makes sense. My grandfather… I think you’re Italian? I come from an Italian background in Greek as well. And my Italian grandfather Salvato was a big gardener. And he would always bring me to his backyard, gardens, tomatoes, everywhere, cucumbers, zucchini, like everything. And the more I started working with students, I realized that educators or anyone that works with youth are kind of like gardeners and you plant the seed and you do what you can to water it. And, you know, sometimes, you know, you show up one day and the tomatoes fully there, you didn’t even see it grow. Sometimes it never grows until, you know, 20 years later and you don’t even realize it. And I think that’s the same with students. You know, you, you do everything you can to set them up for success. And you know, maybe 10 years later, they come up to you and say, Hey, Pete, I remember what you told me. I remember what you told me 12 years ago and, you know, whatever class. And you’re like, I don’t even remember what I told you. How do you remember what I told you? But I’m curious to know, do you have any stories that come to mind of, you know, programs that have impacted young people within the schools you’ve worked in, or students that have come up to you or teachers that, you know, and let them know about the impact of the work has had on them?


Peter Prochilo (14:36):
I’ve been lucky to have a number of really unique experiences. And I’ve been blessed with students that have sought either sought me out or met me by happens happenstance. And you either invited me to their wedding or made a you know, a king to came to my office to show me their first born child, you know, and they wanted me to meet there and see what they become. So at one point in my career I was facilitator, I mean, educator in a classroom that was purposely designed around students who always found themselves in physical altercations. So it was a standalone class where students came to me from different schools and we worked on we worked on an educational and a social plan for six weeks at a time. Okay. And so benchmarks were six weeks and we would, we assess work with the student and the family and have them go back to their home school.


Peter Prochilo (15:45):
Right. And so these students as you can imagine, were either on the verge of being expelled have multiple multiple incidents of physical altercations and the like, and I had I can remember each of their means for the two years that I taught that class. And I can remember even up to about four or five years ago, where one of those, one of those in this case, it was a young young man. Now an adult came to me and wanted to show me his, his welding, his new truck, right. Because he’s now, he’s now an underwater welder. So he took it to you know, and he wanted he came, he sought me out at the school where I was at and made the appointment to come and see me and want to, want me to see where he, he where he, where he’s been, what he’s been doing, that was great, you know, and it was I just stopped everything right there and made time for him.


Peter Prochilo (16:57):
And and we had a good, we had a good talk and I was good, you know, it’s, it was really good to see that some of those things that we, you know, we take each of the students’ interests to heart, of course, and you, you, you deal with each student individually, but it’s, it was good to see that sort of the cumulative effect of things that I stick to and say, you know, it goes back to your garden analogy. Cause my dad was a gardener as well. And so, you know, regardless of what produced that year, I knew that my dad did the same thing to that garden every year. She might tweak a couple of things, but the care that he put into that garden was the same every year, regardless. So the same thing in this case, this young man who came back in that, you know, it may have been at that point in time, I’m teaching this young person in that, in that immediate role when he was in that class, through these steps. Right. But sometimes we don’t think that, you know, we think it’s just a process, but it’s really a a connection that you’re making with the students. Right. And we, even though we might do it repeatedly, like you say, you don’t know that effect. Right. We may wonder what happens, but it was really great that the student came back to show me yeah. He was more proud of the certificate or his truck.


Sam Demma (18:29):
That’s awesome. That’s amazing. Yeah. The phrase that my teacher taught me that had a big impact that aligns with what you just said was you just got to take consistent action and forget about the result, take the actions and forget about the results. And his phrase was small, consistent actions. And I actually wear it on my wrist on this little wristband. I’ve actually, if you give them to the students too, but yeah, it was something my grade 12 older shoes teacher taught me and it’s such a good reminder. Yeah, you’re right. Like the process some years you stick to it, but the produce might not be as great, but you did everything that you needed to do. Same thing with teaching, you know, sometimes people forget that, you know, especially students forget that educators also have families and problems and challenges, and they’re also human beings themselves. You know, when they’re standing at the front of the classrooms, what are some of your own personal hobbies and passions? I know guitar is one of them, but maybe you can share a couple of those things.


Peter Prochilo (19:26):
You know, it’s really been trying to, like you say, try to stay consistent with things. So those are my own hobbies outside of, outside of my work, including my family. It would be certainly the outdoors is a big part of that, whether I’m golfing or I’m just out on a hike even, or for a run or even just a walk, especially around the lake here, it’s always, always trying to do new stuff like that. I’m always branching out that way. And also I know I mentioned golf even though it’s, it’s more of a long walk interrupted by hitting a light balls many times.


Sam Demma (20:06):
And swimming sometimes.


Peter Prochilo (20:10):
Yeah. And then, you know, for me, even one of the sort of escapes, if you will, is, is kind of the, the last few years has been reading nice items. Cause we’re always confronted with reading for for our occupation for work. And it’s there, but you know, making the time to read other items, right. Other other works, it’s always been non-fiction for me. I sort of been musically sort of the, the genre of music and biographies and the like, because music is certainly a big part of, there’s always a song in my head, said my staff one or two that are you humming today, right there. Yeah. So it’s just, it’s, it’s a sort of a combination of things, but certainly even with a busy schedule, just trying to maintain a level of physical activity as we get older, those opportunities for team sports seem to dwindle, but you know other than other than personal fitness getting out into nature is really.


Sam Demma (21:25):
I love that. Well, it’s on the topic of books about music. Here’s the one that I read recently that maybe you can check out. It might be a different genre than you’re used to, but I think you’d like it. So, this book is called it’s all in your head. Get out of your way by Russ Russ, Russell Vitaly is actually a Sicilian rapper from the U S yeah, funny. And I love his book. So he’s an independent artist and basically outlines the story of how he went from nothing to something. And what makes this story very unique is he never ended up joining a record label, turned them all down and kind of did it himself. And it just outlines this whole journey and story and what he overcame and how he got to where he is now and yeah, different genre, but you should check it out.


Sam Demma (22:10):
It might be something that you can listen to. And I think you’re so right about music too. Like when I think back to high school and every kid has different hobbies and they all play different sports and different activities, but I think something that every student has in common is they’ve listened to some form of music Friday. It’s like, it might be a different genre, but they all have a band or an artist or something that they like listening to. An art has such a way of connecting with young people so much so that I’m actually myself trying to work on a spoken word album to appeal to students as well. And yeah, you just really, you just nailed that connection in my own head. And I was like, ah, that makes a lot of sense. I think everyone has a piece of music that they’re always looking forward to. If you could go back Peter and speak to yourself in your first year of teaching, you know, when you’re, but, but with the knowledge and experience you have now looking back, what advice would you give your younger self?


Peter Prochilo (23:05):
Two things. One develop consistent habits right away. Okay. You know, because even the mentors at that time would tell me, you’re going to find your, you know, you’re going to find your way. Right. But you know, it’s really good to compare what you do. I always use the term skeleton, right. It ask my staff or Caitlin let’s deal with the skeleton and we’ll fill in the fill in the parts. You know what I mean? We’ll fill in the rest. But to have that starting point is really important. And I think if I would be able to go back, I would dig deeper in some of the literature and it would be non-educational. I would really go back and look at sort of the, the, the thoughts from the business world, how they manage time and how they, how you schedule your day and all those kinds of things. Because I still do that to this day.


Sam Demma (24:11):
Yeah.


Peter Prochilo (24:13):
I don’t know if you’ve seen time-blocking before.


Sam Demma (24:16):
I’m a huge fan.


Peter Prochilo (24:19):
And so I see this.


Sam Demma (24:22):
This is awesome.


Peter Prochilo (24:23):
I have one of these people make fun of me for it. That’s fine. But it’s my it’s my time blocking from five in the morning, till midnight. And what are my top priorities? What are my secondary priorities? And then a certain light rain.


Sam Demma (24:40):
Where did you grab the idea from originally?


Peter Prochilo (24:43):
There was a couple that floated around one strong Elon Musk that uses something similar. And then there were a few versions online and I just modified what I saw to fit, to fit. What’s going to work for me, but that’s what I mean by a skeleton. Right. So if I had something like that, when I started, that’d be number one, you know, searching for those elements that help you organize yourself and stay consistent. That’s the first, the second thing I would tell myself is don’t take yourself too serious. Yeah. Have a little, and I did have fun. Like, don’t get me wrong. There’s my stories are pretty hilarious from when I started teaching, you know, I had fun, I had fun with colleagues. I had fun working with students got involved. You know, I coached, I did some after-school group. Like we did a, I did a bunch of things, but not to take yourself seriously and just really enjoy where you are in that moment. Don’t think ahead too far.


Sam Demma (25:44):
I love that that’s, those are awesome pieces of advice. And you got me thinking again about the organizational techniques and tactics and ideas. Have you read any books that have been foundational in terms of your self-leadership stuff that you think you should, you know, would be valuable for another educator to check out or read or listen to?


Peter Prochilo (26:02):
Well, my experience has been fairly unique well in Ontario, because it’s always been through Catholic schools. I got in counted organization. And so I’ve always taken the Ignation view. So that’s been sort of my guidepost, spiritually and organizationally. Right. And so I really that kind of did that on my own for awhile. Yeah. Seeing that ignition thought. And then the concept of servant leadership really came forward in a boat 15 years ago, perhaps. Nice to forefront in terms of what, you know, green leaf had a whole series on servant leadership. And that was sort of the solidifying moment where it was, oh, this is a thing it’s not just something that’s rattling around in my head.


Peter Prochilo (27:01):
And and then just, you know, reading as much as I could about that and, and sort of identifying the items that I, the things that I already do, and then looking at what else I can incorporate, you can incorporate everything because you, you know, this is year 30 for me in education, 30, 31. So you know, educators take, you never abandoned the good stuff, right? Like it’s like a snowball, right. You start off with your core beliefs and then this comes along, right? This, this new thought, this new approach and you incorporate it into what you’re already doing, but you never let go of what’s at your core is getting bigger. But that in the center is still the center, still the center. Right. And you, you all, you pick up the great things and you know, some things go by the wayside, but you’re always, you’re always developing. You’re always adding to that core.


Sam Demma (27:58):
Love that. Awesome. Well, this has been a very awesome conversation. I really appreciate you taking some time to come on the show and share some of your philosophies, resources, stories it’s been. Yeah. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you. If, if there’s another educator listening right now who feels a little inspired or just wants to, you know, reach out will be the best way for them to get in touch with you.


Peter Prochilo (28:21):
Probably just through, email’s probably the easiest at this point. And I can share that with you, if you want me to, to share.


Sam Demma (28:28):
Sure. You can actually say it now, or I can put it in the show notes of the episode as well.


Peter Prochilo (28:32):
Yeah. So it’s just peter.prochilo@sudburycatholicschools.ca.


Sam Demma (28:45):
Awesome. Peter again, thank you so much. This has been great.


Peter Prochilo (28:47):
It’s been great. Thank you for the opportunity. It’s been great talking to you and I look forward to listening to the rest of your series.


Sam Demma (28:57):
Now and there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high-performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you want to meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not feel your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 12, 2021 by Principals Student Leadership Superintendent Teachers 0

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