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Larry Tomiyama – Consultant and Retired Administrator with 32 Years of Experience in Education

Larry Tomiyama - Consultant and Retired Administrator with 32 Years of Experience in Education
About Larry Tomiyama 

After spending over 30 years of his life as an administrator in the Calgary School system in Canada, Larry (@TomiyamaLarry) was gifted the opportunity to work with some of the most vulnerable and behavioural students in his school system.  Through that experience, Larry learned so much about trust, trauma-informed teaching, and how to build really deep relationships with kids.

He believes that his opportunity to work in this environment was a gift from God because it truly changed the way Larry understood education, leadership and life. He was so motivated to share his discoveries, he left the school district so he could speak with other educators and leaders about what he had learned.

Connect with Larry: Email | Website | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Robert Greenleaf’s book – Servant Leadership

Neuroteach: Brain Science and the Future of Education – Book

What is Trauma-Informed Teaching?

Calgary Board of Education

In Everything Give Thanks (website)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Larry welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Please introduce yourself and share a little bit about the work you do in education.


Larry Tomiyama (00:11):
Thanks. It’s a pleasure and privilege to be here, Sal. It was great to meet you the other month and I’m happy to be here today. So I’m a,, I guess a lifelong educator, if you count of when I was in school it would be 55 years almost that I’ve been in school as either a student a teacher, a university professor. And I guess even the speaking that I do right now and the everything that I get to do right now is due to the path that God provided the opportunities that he provided for me. And it all kind of culminated in the last two years of my K to 12 teaching career with the Calgary Catholic school district. And in those last two years, I got to work with, be the principal of a school that educated the most behavioral, the most vulnerable, the most volatile students in the city of Calgary.


Larry Tomiyama (01:19):
But those students and the staff that I got to work with taught me changed and transformed the way I think about education, about life and about leadership. And I believe it’s been my calling for the last five or six years to go share this information with anybody who wants to listen because it’s it, to me, it was, it just put everything into perspective. It made sense to everything, to that part of things. So I don’t know if you want to hear anything a little bit about my, how I grew up and things like that, but really everything is kind of culminated. And the purpose of, I think why I’m on earth is occurred in, in that little space of time. I’m in, in the last five years,


Sam Demma (02:06):
What a beautiful realization to have and to still be able to share and have the time to share these things, which is phenomenal. I think you’re doing an amazing job. Please take us back to when you were growing up, tell us a little bit about your upbringing and also what got you into education in the first place, or should I say made you never leave?


Larry Tomiyama (02:30):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So, my, parents were both, Japanese. My mom was born in Japan. My dad was born in, Canada and, so I grew up in a small Alberta town of Taber, Alberta. 5,000 people there. It was a fantastic place to grow up. Small town, you went to school there. My dad owned a service station in a town, just, just east of the city. my mom worked in a canning factory, canning vegetables when she wasn’t, at home chasing us around, I have two brothers and a sister and, get to hang out with them in Calgary. So that’s, it’s great. both my parents have passed at this at right now, but, certainly the work ethic and the example that they provided will live on. And I hope, and I know that, they’re in heaven right now and I’m happy with most of the stuff that I do.


Larry Tomiyama (03:34):
But I’m sure wanna criticize me as well, too. So I’m, I’m okay with that. I’m okay with that. I went played a lot of baseball and basketball as I grew up and sports is a big part of my life and was able to pass that on to our kids, my own kids as I grew up. So went to the university of Calgary, started my teaching career in Calgary and never left and had a really, really fulfilling career as a teacher, as a principal worked at the, our central office for a little while and then kind of only moved into the post-secondary world. But that’s been part of it, but really the again, things really culminated in basically 2015 to 2017. And in those two years that I got to work with those students. My wife was gonna kill me, as I said, right after that, then I know I have to go share this information and I decided to leave the district. And that was not part of our retirement plan, but it had to be done. Luckily I’m still married. So,ushe was okay with it.


Sam Demma (04:57):
Hey, sometimes you have to ask for forgiveness and not permission, right.


Larry Tomiyama (05:02):
That was definitely one of those occasions sound I don’t re I don’t recommend it, but it worked out. Okay.


Sam Demma (05:09):
Bring us into the environment of the school that you had the opportunity to work in. I don’t think every educator understands the feeling, the experience. Tell us a little bit about, and also what you learned


Larry Tomiyama (05:23):
You bet. I think if it’s okay with you, Sam, I’ll tell you a little bit about it and then I’ll tell you a story. And it really it kind of, I think people get a better visual visualization of what’s there. Sure. So our lady alert school was created to educate those students because of their behavior, because of their brokenness, because of their issues that they were having. They couldn’t be successful in any other school. So they needed a place to go to do things maybe a little bit differently than other schools but to see if we could help them provide some type of therapy for them to get them to the point where they might be able to integrate themselves back into regular school. So most of the time these students been suspended or expelled from other schools and there’s really no else, nowhere else for them to go.


Larry Tomiyama (06:22):
So we got to educate them in our building. So we had 60 students. Half the building was for really cognitively delayed and students with severe, severe autism. And the other half was the students who, and I called them to screw you kids because they had no problem telling to, to screw off and many other things as well. But they were just students who had experienced no success in school. And as we found out lots of trauma that they experienced that caused them to not be able to function. And it was our opportunity that we got to help them function in a way that they can be a little bit more successful. So the story that kind of illustrates this really, really well is a story. I call this student little G I gave all my students nicknames and Ralph was really, really good then, and the kids really liked it.


Larry Tomiyama (07:31):
So they liked, they liked that name. So this guy was little G little G came to us in kindergarten. Story is that at the age of two little G had to be removed from his biological parents because his biological father was sexually abusing him. At age of four he was in the foster system and social services felt it was important for little G to be with a sibling to try and get a family connection. So little G was moved into a foster home with his 12 year old brother. He was four at the time that lasted about six months and he had to be removed from that house because his 12 year old brother was sexually abusing him. Enter us. We normally didn’t take students that young at five, we usually took them at grade three.


Larry Tomiyama (08:31):
We wanted them to go into a regular system and see if they could function. And then if there was a problem we would try and step in, but myself and our psychologist went to go see little G in his school that he was at. And we saw this cute, angry, sad, outta control, little boy. And I looked at her and she looked at me and we looked at each other and said, we gotta take him. So I entered little G into our school. I, he started in September. The hope was that we would hear at some point that little G was gonna be adopted. That was really the goal, social services working super, super hard to try and make that happen. And it was like November. And in November, we got the word that little G there was a family from out of town that was extremely interest in little G.


Larry Tomiyama (09:38):
It was like a party at our school. We started planning the party. His last day was gonna be December 22nd. I think it was the last year of school. And then he was gonna leave school with the family and go to their help. And in in conversations and therapy sessions little G had mentioned over and over and over again that he just wanted to call somebody, mom and dad again. And so we heard this news, we did everything. We invited the family in. We saw, we let little G be with his perspective parents. As many times as we could at school, things were looking really, really good. And I remember it so clearly it was December 21st, the last day before school was to let out. And I got a call from Steve, the social worker, and Steve said, Larry, I’ve got some bad news. I said, what’s that? The parents can’t take little G they’re not ready. They don’t want ’em. I don’t know what the reason was, but they can’t take ’em. So I’ll be there tomorrow morning, the last day of school tomorrow morning to let little G know that that’s what the situation was.


Larry Tomiyama (10:55):
Selfishly, selfishly, on my part, I it’s, Steve, this is. You’re gonna come to school at nine o’clock wreck this kid’s life again, and we’re gonna have to deal with them for the rest of the day. I’ve got no choice, Larry. We gotta do it. Fair enough. So December 22nd rolls around we’re in the conference room, I’m sitting across a little G little G’s teacher is sitting across from Steve. The social worker. We bring little G in our little G’s teacher is she’s crying already. And we’re just waiting. So the meeting starts and Steve communicates the little GE gee, I’m sorry that the, the adoption didn’t go through the, family’s not gonna take you and you’re not gonna be going home with them today. And I just put my head down and waited for the explosion and to everyone’s surprise, LGI jumps up onto the table that we are at jumps into my lap and says, that’s okay, Steve, Mr. T that’s me, Mr. T you’ll be my dad. Right.


Larry Tomiyama (12:23):
And I had nothing and I was praying to God, what the hell do I say? What do give some words, gimme some words. And what came outta my mouth was absolutely. I will always be your dad at school. G always, always, always. And he jumps outta my, laughing into this teacher’s lap who can’t even talk and says, and miss G you’ll be my mom too. Right. And I, and she couldn’t even breathe. So I took her head and I motioned it for a nodding action. So she would say, yes, I think that was a yes. G you’re doing okay.


Larry Tomiyama (13:03):
So the, the reason why I tell that story is because we got to work with these students who experienced trauma and everything else that no student should ever, ever have to experience, but we got the chance through the model that we used to get that kid to the point where he thought enough of us thought enough of me thought enough of his teacher, that he might be able to call him mom and dad. And we have that opportunity every day. And this is an extreme case for sure. But every day, as educators, as teachers that we have, when we get to step in front of our students, there’s lots of little G’s out there, lots. And in order for us to be able to tee each them, those kids need to feel safe and they need to feel that somebody cares about them.


Larry Tomiyama (14:04):
And I don’t care if you’re in grade, if you’re in kindergarten and grade 12, that, that model, that formula in order to make those kids safe and secure prior to teaching them and get them to trust you. It just spoke volumes to us as a staff. And we got to do this every day. Not that it was easy. In fact, it was brutal sometimes, but to be able to do that, it showed me why we got into the business at educating and teaching kids and how we can get them to learn to like themselves enough to be productive in the, in, in whatever that they do. So, like I said, I can go into the model a little bit more if you want, but certainly he’s a great example of teaching us what needs to be done with these, with some of these kids.


Sam Demma (15:08):
Wow. But before we jump into the model and talk about that a little bit, can you share in your perspective how you believe you’re able to build trust with students? Not only the challenging ones, but also the easy ones. You shared some experiences on our previous call that really highlighted how I believe, you know, sometimes building trust is a long process and can be very challenging, but once you have it, like you just explained with little G it becomes a beautiful thing. How do you think you build it?


Larry Tomiyama (15:46):
It doesn’t matter if the, I mean, if, if a student is traumatized or not, sometimes, I mean, and, and the model speaks to it really well at the bottom of the model before anything happens, it’s safety. So the student needs to feel safe and how we define safety. When we worked with these kids was that the student needs to be able to predict what’s gonna happen next. That’s what safety is because in their lives, in their homes, in their situations, you’re not safe. If you can’t predict, I don’t, they can’t predict how mom’s drunk boyfriend is gonna act. They can’t predict if they’re gonna have supper that day. They can’t predict if they get in trouble, what that’s gonna look like. So we are able at school will be able to create an environment where they can predict what’s gonna happen regardless of, of how they act, what they say or what they do.


Larry Tomiyama (16:41):
They’ll be able to predict how we’re gonna act towards them and that’s respect respectfully, lovingly whatever we need to do that doesn’t, that doesn’t mean that there isn’t consequences. Cause there consequ are critical, but students need to feel safe. The next step that we need after we got them to feel safe, we called it security and security is that they’re willing to do things, even though they might fail, they feel secure enough because of the adults in the room or their teacher or whomever that even though if they fail, it’s gonna be okay. And kids, especially kids who struggle in school, they don’t, they’d rather not try than fail. So we need to get ’em to that point where you know what it’s okay to. And I actually, I was listening to another podcast and people didn’t like that word failure. So they used the word falling instead of failure.


Larry Tomiyama (17:46):
And I kind of like that, cuz falling gives the connotation that that you followed, but you want to get up as well. Mm like that. I like that. Yeah. So, so first safety, security, and then trust and trust was vague. They knew how we were going to react in every situation, even though it was a consequence and, and there were, there were students that I suspended. But they knew that what was gonna happen, they were able to predict that part of things as well. The reaction of, of somebody when things didn’t go right. And once that was there ex that’s when the magic happened, but that sometimes that took years, but even, even in a regular classroom, their kids that, that are trustworthy already, just because they’ve had pretty solid background, loving parents, et cetera. But they still used to it’s they still gotta trust you so you can prove it to them.


Larry Tomiyama (18:54):
And it comes pretty easy for a lot of kids and teachers. But it’s that bottom third to bottom quarter where it’s not easy. So we have to work a little bit harder. We have to make an effort. They might be the kid in the class. And you might think that kid is the greatest kid in the world. He doesn’t say a word. He doesn’t bother me. He’s fantastic. But he might not feel safe. So we need to go and make an effort to create those relationships with those kids. It’s easy for the kids that you, like. I tell the kids that, you know, the teachers in training that you think you’re gonna, like all the kids, you’re not gonna like all the kids. In fact, you might not, you might dislike a lot of them or some of them, the key is they can’t know that every kid in that class needs to think that you’d love them. Your inside voice might not say so, but it’s okay. They just need to know that you care about them and yell. And then, like I said, that’s where the joy of teaching comes from when you get that pack from the students. So hopefully it might be kind of confusing, but hopefully I explained it.


Sam Demma (20:13):
Okay. You did a phenomenal job explaining that. And it leads me to my next curious question, where have your principal’s ideas come from? It sounds like a lot of them have come from your past experience. The two years spent in this school and the 55. So or so years you spent in education altogether, but what resources, what courses, books programs, anything have you used or consumed that have been very helpful in helping you make a bigger impact on kids in the classroom and also as an administrator?


Larry Tomiyama (20:53):
Yeah. You know what it’s to say that there was I mean, a, a big on Robert Greenleaf’s book, servant leadership was certainly influential in my life, but you know, most of my stuff and, and most of the things that I speak about is from firsthand experience stuff that I screwed up royally as a principal, as a thing, and then to be able to think back record it, document it and understand, okay, that’s, that’s why I messed up on that. I should have it this way, or I should have asked for more input this way or they didn’t trust me yet. So I’ve taken what those kids taught me and the model that we used there and brought it back to the way that I was a leader in the way, the, the successes that I had and the failures that I had. And it’s all the same thing when I messed up.


Larry Tomiyama (21:51):
And, and I thought my staff should act this way and they didn’t it’s because I didn’t take the proper steps to get ’em safe. They didn’t feel safe. They didn’t certainly didn’t trust me. After a year, two and a half, they trusted me and then I could, then we do anything and everything. And we created culture. That was amazing, but it took me that while. So like I said, it was a culmination of those two years, but all the years that I was a principal and as a, a leader with the district and things like that, it all made sense to me when I got to live it with these students. And it made sense why I fell or failed in that situation. And it made sense why I am success. I was successful in many of those ventures. If there’s another book that I’m, that’s really influential in my life, right, right now it’s called neuro teach and is written by educators.


Larry Tomiyama (22:55):
And it’s all about brain-based research. And, and again, all the stuff that I thought is now reinforced by recent brain research. That that’s why we are able to help these students said we did. That’s why many of these kids were so stuck that when they were traumatized and they were young, their brain was damaged, physically, physically damaged. But research also shows that we have an opportunity to create neurons in the brain. That’ll help switch or flip their script, that all these people hurt me in my life. So I’m not lovable. I’m not likable and switch that to your more than lable. You’re more than likable, more than worth it. And we’re gonna show you why you’re worth it. So it, it, I don’t know. I I’m just, most of my life is cuz I’m a little bit messed up and that’s how we kind of evolve for me that those two years risk reinforced all the things that I had done before. And it’s really created and given me a a platform and a foundation to be able to share some of this information.


Sam Demma (24:18):
And you do a phenomenal job sharing it and telling it through the old art of storytelling in a way that’s engaging and fun for the audience. And last time we connected, you shared the story of I don’t know if that made a good representation of the sound or what happened, but, man you share that story before we wrap up today’s uhonversation and what you learned from it personally, if remember,


Larry Tomiyama (24:46):
Yeah. W was that with the I’m trying to think of which story that I had told was that with the little guy that I was in the timeout room with, correct. Ah, okay. Okay. So let’s, let’s call this student OB. And so OB was a grade three student who came from a war torn country. And his life was basically before he came to Canada, was running and fighting in refugee camps. So he comes to Canada and not functional in a regular school, kicked out of a number of schools or Exel from a number of schools just because he wasn’t able to, to function in a regular classroom. So we arrived at our season grade three and as most kids are, they’re not really that happy when they start in our building, because it’s just another place that they’re gonna be unsuccessful at and they’re gonna get kicked out of.


Larry Tomiyama (25:54):
And that’s where their head is at. So I got a call from the classroom saying that’s coming down and it doesn’t look like he’s very, he’s very happier. He is not ready to start class. So I said, fine. So I leave my office and O’s coming down the stairs and I know he’s not doing really well because he’s sucking his thumb. And that was his coping mechanism for when he was stressed or anxiety rid. And he comes down the stairs and I said, OB, how you doing? Just take a seat on the chair and we can get started with the day when you’re ready. You let me know. And he had his thumb in his mouth and everything. He just says, sure, up, shut up, Mr. T screw you. So it went on and, and on to that nothing that was pretty tame to some of the names I was called.


Larry Tomiyama (26:48):
So I was okay with that. And he came down, so it came down the stairs and was really, really angry, started throwing chairs, throwing things around and then went after a student. So we had intervene and when a student gets violent, we have a room that we call our calming room. And it’s basically a six by six cinder brick wall room with a door and a window in it. And so we brought him in there and he lost his mind in there. Kickings spitting, anything that you can think of. And usually they calm down after a while. So when they calm down, we enter the CLA enter the room and, and see if we can work with them. And so I walked into the room and he was lying in the corner of the room and started to get violent again. So I had to leave. And so I just waited and waited them out and got quiet. And he was mumbling and mumbling. I said, OB, are you okay? What are it’s gonna happening? Oh, I felt, tell me MRT. And I said, what’s that OB what’s happening, whatever you need. And he says, MRT, I’m gonna take their outta your and rub it right in your eyes.


Larry Tomiyama (28:23):
I couldn’t even talk. I was laughing so hard. I, I thought that’s so brilliant. How can and someone be so elevated? So, so mad and think of something like that. It took me like five minutes before I could collect myself. I looked in there and he’s crying again in the corner. So I walk, I walk in, open the door and I just sit on the floor and don’t do anything. And,uhe looks at me and I look at him, he puts his head down and nobody says a word for another five minutes. Uand then I see him army crawl over to me and put his head on my leg. Cause I’m sitting down in the ground. So he sat there for a few minutes and he’s crying and crying. And then he kind of collects himself. And he says to me, Mr. T, you can hurt me now.


Larry Tomiyama (29:24):
And I said, OB, what are you talking about? No, one’s gonna hurt you. That’s not why you’re here. We’re not doing that. Cuz he said, when I’m bad like that, and I say bad things, my brother or my dad beats the. And so I, I said, OB, listen, it doesn’t matter what you say, what you do, no one is gonna hurt you here. That’s not gonna happen. So we sat there for a few more minutes and in my work sense of humor, I said to him, I said, you know what, OB, you know, that stuff said to me, you know, with this and putting in my eyes and stuff like that, I go, I don’t know how possible that is. Do you think you could really do that? And there was a pause and he says,uand then he just starts full out,ubelly laughing.


Larry Tomiyama (30:29):
Yeah. Things like that. I said, OB, go clean up and get your to class. Mm. And so it went off to class. The, the, the big thing with that again, is the safety piece. Mm. That a, in his mind he was predicting what was gonna happen. Yeah. So when he acts like this, then he gets hurt and we had to flip that and we had to convince him that doesn’t matter what happens and how much you lose your mind that you’re gonna be safe here. So that was a huge, huge step in creating that safety for him. And again, this is an extreme story, but we can do little acts in our classrooms that show students that it doesn’t matter. What’s gonna happen. Whether whether we reprimand you or not how we say it or whatever. But you’re gonna be safe in my class. And that’s really, really the that’s the place to start


Sam Demma (31:27):
Love that. That’s such a powerful story along with the other one you shared and I’m sure there’s hundreds upon


Larry Tomiyama (31:33):
Hundreds. Yeah, no, it’s some of ’em are, are so ridiculous. They’re funny. Yeah. ,


Sam Demma (31:42):
That’s so true. Well, Larry, this has been such a pleasure with you about the, you know, the philosophies, the principles you have, the way you view education, the framework from which the school functioned. It’s really interesting. And if another educator is listening and is inspired by this conversation or has enjoyed it and wants to ask you a question or invite you to their event, what would be the best way for, for them to get in touch with you?


Larry Tomiyama (32:08):
Probably. I mean, if you need more information, I mean, my website’s not great, but it’s okay, but certainly it’s there. And my web website is https://ineverythinggivethanks.ca/about/. My email address is larry20ltomiyama@telus.net.

And shoot me an email take a look at the website that my contact information is on there. I’d be happy to talk to anybody. I talk to a lot of educators just about working with, at risk students about what, what I believe in leadership and what I, what I know works. And so I would be willing to share with anybody because it’s that’s what God God has asked me to do. And I don’t want to, I don’t wanna make him mad.


Sam Demma (33:06):
Larry, thank you so much. I really, really appreciate the time, effort and energy you put into your work and appreciate you sharing some of it here. Keep up the amazing job. And I look forward to our next conversation, hopefully on a golf course.


Larry Tomiyama (33:20):
My pleasure. Thanks.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Larry Tomiyama

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 24, 2022 by Education Consultant Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Nicholas McCowan – Lenovo’s Visionary Teachers Award Recipient

Nicholas McCowan – Lenovo’s Visionary Teachers Award Recipient
About Nicholas McCowan

Nicholas McCowan (@NJMcCowan) teaches at St. Joan of Arc Academy in the Toronto Catholic District School Board and teaches Science, Leadership and Student Success.

In 2019, Nicholas was the winner of Lenovo‘s prestigious Visionary Teacher’s Award which earned him a set of VR headsets for his classroom. His submission focused on the socioeconomic limitations students face, along with the challenges associated with assimilating to a new country, as many of his students were newcomers.

Connect with Nicholas: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joan of Arc Academy

Visionary Teacher’s Award

Teach Me Toolbox

Teachers Meet Teachers

Bubba Gaeddert – CEO and Founder of the Varsity eSports Foundation

Google Expeditions

Minecraft Education

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox, you might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting. Go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma today’s guest is Nick McCowan. Nicholas is a teacher at St. John Arc Academy in the Toronto Catholic District School Board. He teaches science leadership and student success, and he is also a tech wizard. He helped an entire classroom at John Vanet experience visiting the national space station and traveling through exotic places throughout the world, using the Lenovo virtual reality classroom set without even leaving the classroom.


Sam Demma (01:11):
St. Joan of Arc Catholic Academy became the first school in the TCDSB to use this virtual reality kit. After today’s guest, Nick won an essay contest put on by the big tech giant Lenovo, and he believes that using technology can empower students who are new to the country and who may face social stigma. As a result, he is a phenomenal educator, phenomenal human being. He also runs something called Teach Me Toolbox, which is an Instagram page and a platform that shares tips that you can add to your teacher toolbox. He does so much to empower and educate and inspire his students. He is also a world experiencer. He loves traveling and he’s super passionate about the ocean. Anyways, without further ado, let’s get to the interview with Nick. I hope you enjoy it. And I will see you on the other side, Nick, welcome to the High Performing Educators podcast. It’s a huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by sharing with our audience who you are and how you got into the work you do in education now?


Nicholas McCowan (02:17):
Okay. Thanks for having me on Sam. It’s a pleasure to be here. So my name’s Nick McCowan. I taught with the Toronto Catholic District School Board for this is now my 10th year nine years at the school that I’m at. Generally I teach science and leadership and student success. So I wear a couple hats at the school. As a lot of us tend to do these days. I got into this work, I guess this story goes all the way back to high school. I had one particular teacher as I think a lot of educators can, can relate with this. They all had that one teacher that inspired them. George Robel at Cardinal Newman in a grade 12 history class. What he did was he, he brought in his, his dad just randomly and this, like, he sort of like crunched over old man walked in, didn’t say a word rolled up his sleeve and showed everybody the number tattoo on his forearm. And he had been a prisoner or in one of the concentration camps during world war II. And that experience just really like that got to me because I think, you know, that was the aha moment. Like what was in the textbook was real. And I think when that, for me, that experience was where I wanted to, to do that. I wanted to give people that experience. So that was sort of the main driver from me amongst a lot of other influential experiences as I went through my educational career myself.


Sam Demma (03:45):
That’s amazing. Yeah. Yeah. It’s so cool because I have that teacher for me too, and I don’t do, I mean, I’m not working in formal education as a teacher, but I’m, and I’m, I’m aspiring to impact students in, in different ways and doing so virtual right now. What other character traits did your teacher have, you know, in your, in your, in your history class that really made an impact on you? Cause I’m sure along with bringing in his father, there was other things he did for you that made his class your most memorable class?


Nicholas McCowan (04:15):
I think he was available, you know, he, he wasn’t just a teacher. He, he, he made himself readily available in the class and outside the class and, and he talked to us, not at us. And I think that that’s a valuable distinction that a lot of teachers, sometimes when you like in different stages of your career, or even just day to day, we we’ve something happened at home and we forget to talk to the students mm-hmm instead of at them. And I think that, you know, especially now given all the restrictions we’re going through and the challenges we’re going through, it’s an important lesson to, to remember. And Robo was so good with that. I mean, he would pull you out of class when he knew you were having a bad day and ask you what was going on. He would sort of just E even down the hallway, kind of engage you with something that you mentioned in class, which empowered us. Right? Mm-hmm he was listening to what we were saying. So I think that that was sort of the most valuable thing that he offered us as well, was just the fact that he listened and, and was genuine with us on a, a day to day basis.


Sam Demma (05:18):
No, that’s awesome. And it’s funny when I think about Rob and my teacher, Mr. Loud foot, very similar. He tried to meet each student where they were at, meaning he would take his overarching lesson and try and apply it to all of our lives individually. So one kid loved fashion. He would talk about the ability to make an impact on the world. Through fashion. One of us loved sports. He would talk about the importance of using the platform you build responsibly to make a difference. And what’s crazy is that their, their preaching was backed by life experience and action. So like my teacher told us small actions make a massive change, go in the community and try something. And I didn’t know it, but he, he, for 20 years along with other colleagues of the school were organizing the food drive. And when he, when he retired from the school board after 20 something years or 30 something years, they had, they had donated over a million pounds of food. And I didn’t know that. And he did that. And I’m sure your teacher the same way, you know, showed interest in all of you guys and behind the scenes was like very calculated and, and very intentional about doing so how do we, how do we be intentional and make students feel seen and heard in this virtual world you know, with all the challenges that are being faced?


Nicholas McCowan (06:39):
I, I think the important thing is to remember that as educators, like we really have that role of a hero, right? I, I think that you can’t underestimate how much the kids are watching and how much they’re listening. And even if we can’t observe it as readily as we can, and during like regular teaching and having the students in front of us, we have to remember that they’re still listening and they’re still observing everything you do. So, and it’s even more important. And I mean, we’re constantly bombarded by warnings from our school boards, like, Hey, you know, dress the right way, have the background the right way, have, you know, have all, all your ducks in a row so that you can’t get in trouble. And, and the phrasing of that has kind of made people paranoid. So we have to under like still address those kids and be impactful from behind a screen, which has like been.


Nicholas McCowan (07:34):
I don’t know, we’ve had a whole new set of challenges given to us, and we’ve really had to adapt so quickly. So I guess some of the ways that we’ve done it is by using some of the amazing tools that are available. I, myself am a pretty tech savvy guy. So we’ve I’ve been doing this for a long time. A couple years ago, 2019 Lenovo Canada gave me the visionary teacher of the year award for some of the work we we’ve been doing with our VR project. At school, we, we were doing the virtual classroom two, three years ago using VR helmets to give students student voice at the particular school that I’m at, we’ve got a lot of new Canadians and allowing them to use tools like Google expedition which is a fantastic tool that we can get more into if you’d like.


Nicholas McCowan (08:25):
But essentially it’s one of the VR programs that you can go to anywhere in the world, see different environments. And you know, like for a kid, who’s just come from the Philippines who doesn’t have a handle on the language who doesn’t know the environment he’s coming, and he doesn’t have any friends in the class throw that helmet on him and show him his street in Manila, that kind of power from that experience is huge. And that just, that opens up so many things because now kids in the class can be like, Hey, I lived right around the corner from there. And that gives him the power to say, I now have the commonality with the kids in my class. So those kind of tools that we’re, we’re dealing with, you know, we are restricted because we can’t put the helmet on them, but we still have the ability to use similar tools from behind the screen. And it’s important to keep digging and not make it full. Do you know, like we, we really can’t just send an email like here, do questions one to 10, you gotta make it as engaging and interactive as possible. And that’s when you really grab the student’s attention.


Sam Demma (09:26):
Where did the, where did the curiosity come from for you to develop your tech skills and dive deep into to these?


Nicholas McCowan (09:39):
I would say experiential learning opportunities is, is it bad to blame Sega Genesis or like, or PS, you know, PS one through four, you know, like I think actually a lot of it came from gaming, man. I think you know, as much as a lot of parents ride the kids for gaming, I think more and more, those are the kids that are tech savvy that are, are winners when it comes to this online engagement. And I’ve seen a lot of kids become wizards with using some of the tech tools that are out there. They’re so, so better versed at it than we are. And I think that that comes from that, that kind of similar back that, that gave me that that love for it. It was no nobody in particular, but I, I guess I’ve always really taken to it. I mean, being at UofT and being at Trent University and at Ottawa doing all the degrees that I’d done, you, you, you’re doing labs, you get these opportunities to play with electron microscopes. And I mean, we’re all kids at high, right? So when you get these tools, like why not engage fully? And I love offering that opportunity to the students.


Sam Demma (10:43):
I just recently on the high performing student podcast interviewed a director of something called the, the Varsity eSports foundation and his name’s Bubba. And he talks about the difference between mean talks about the difference between gaming and eSports and the stem advantages that come along with eSports. And I’m curious to know your personal opinion on that. Should educators listening, start being more open minded to the possibility of using games to build critical thinking teamwork and even, you know, overcoming challenges as a team?


Nicholas McCowan (11:18):
Absolutely. I mean what better platform than to use one that students are already familiar with? There’s no need to like teach them the skillset to use the tech, you know, so they’re already familiar with it. So they hop in running. I use a a game called no man sky for PS4. It’s not an amazing game, but allows students to explore sort of it it’s engages them with space exploration, which helps with my earth and space science class at the 12 U level. So it’s a nice little hook activity for them. And then as soon as they have that, you can start adding to programs like sky safari pro, which is a fantastic sort of telescope tool. And I think that for students, as soon as you, you pull out those, those tools, they’re already engaged as it is. So they, they love that kind of thing big time and, and hop in with both be.


Sam Demma (12:13):
That’s awesome. And for a teacher who’s listening and thinks this is awesome and wants to give it a shot, but is so overwhelmed by the idea of this technology. What is the first small step they can take to dabble their feet in the water and give some of these things a small try?


Nicholas McCowan (12:31):
I think the best thing to do is to ask the students, ask the students, to show them what they think is best and do a quick little poll. The kids are, well, I should say students because, I mean, I got kids that are up to 18 but they’re watching the videos on like Twitch and, and watching all those streams, right, where ki people are playing the games. So a, a student would readily have, you know, a whole handful of videos that a teacher can use to, to sort of learn the basics and, and, and watch the gameplay and see whether it’s valuable for the lesson they had in mind. So I would start there with that. But a lot of the S resources that were being given by our particular board, we’ve got a great 21st century learning team that is all about a listen.


Nicholas McCowan (13:18):
If you guys have some sort of tech tool that you wanna use, go for it. We, I mean, we even got a Minecraft license so that we can use Minecraft for some of the for some of the tools in elementary. And it’s, it’s going from math to English all the way over to history. I mean, the, it, it’s pretty amazing. I think a, another, one of the valuable tools that we were talking about earlier, Google expedition, one of the things that they can do with that. And I know like for an English teacher, the chance to use a lot of tech is, is not always there. It, it tends to be more like a, a stem teacher that has the availability. One of the experiences students can have is, is being the ghost of Macbeth in the play and watching the play virtually from the stage. So, I mean, you can actually experience Shakespeare, which is the way it’s supposed to be, right? So you have students that are, are so accustomed to just opening up that small little book and reading along in class. Now you can actually live the experience, play on YouTube VR or on on this like Google expedition platform. So really the, the learning for the teacher is not that onerous. So it’s actually pretty straightforward and there’s lots of great tutorials online.


Sam Demma (14:34):
So what you’re saying essentially is teachers can take their kids on a class trip without leaving or going on a bus.


Nicholas McCowan (14:44):
Well, it’s, it’s cost effective. I’ll tell you that. We, we we’re we do that all the time in my environmental or biology classes, earth and space. I mean, talk about bringing the experiential learning to the classroom, because I mean, another one of the hats I wear, I work Fori academy. And we take students down to Belize and Costa Rica for the summer. And I mean, the very first day in class, we, it in class is a loose term because we actually take a, a skiff out like to the coral reef. And we jump into the coral reef and dive with sharks and, and Ray, and actually engage in discussions about biodiversity. And there is no better teacher, but obviously that’s an experience only a few can afford. So these VR helmets and, and this kind of technology allows that integration into the learning and when it comes for free, I mean, it’s, it’s a win-win situation, right?


Nicholas McCowan (15:41):
Like the kids are all in as soon as they can do that. Another interesting facet of that technology is, I mean, you can, some of the AR the augmented reality stuff that they can do too, is I can now put a shark in the middle of the classroom virtually via an iPad. So I can have a camera showing the class input, the shark, and we can dissect it like layer by layer, you know? And, and I think that that kind of experience for the students is, I mean, you can’t touch it, right? Yeah.


Sam Demma (16:09):
You can even do that in real classroom, unless you were thinking about it, you know, at least virtually, maybe more teachers are open to the idea of giving this a try now. That’s so cool. And what’s the difference between virtual reality and augmented reality in a very layman’s terms.


Nicholas McCowan (16:26):
Okay. Quick virtual reality will be a full immersive 3d experience. Okay. so if you want to go down the backbone of a DNA strand and look at all the different nucle or the nucleic acids, as you go down in the phosphate backbone, you can actually engage and manipulate the environment. Whereas augmented reality will be a 3d image that you can insert your, your camera’s ex view. So if you take a picture in a hallway or you have students sort of holding up a mitochondria or whatever it is they’re looking at it it’s, it’s something that they can actually manipulate in, in the virtual world, so they can spin it around with their hand. They can actually touch certain parts and information can, can pop up. So it’s a full, fully engageable learning tool that’s in that virtual world. So AR is that 3d image and VR is that fully immersive experience.


Sam Demma (17:30):
Okay, awesome. This is really, really interesting, and I’m sure there’s gonna be some and teachers who are very curious to learn more and hear more, especially from you. And we’ll, we’ll ask you to share some contact information at the end, but I wanna know in all the years you’ve been teaching, you’ve learned lots. You’ve obviously gained a lot of wisdom. If there’s an educator listening who is just getting into this, or they feel like they’re starting from the ground up, because it’s so changed and different this year what pieces of advice could you give your younger self or that new educator based on what you know now?


Nicholas McCowan (18:06):
I think the, the first thing, like when you, when you, we all start our careers, we, we really want to be that teacher, the one who students like really, they love our classes. They, they want to engage in all our lessons and we want to be the superhero that, that we all sort of start out as. And I think that we, we burn ourselves out so quickly at the beginning because we’re trying to be perfect. Mm-Hmm . And I think that the, the important message is that there is zero need to be perfect at the beginning of your career. We were all there and we all had to start building those courses and, and from scratch. And, you know, I think that not having it done the best way the first time, give yourself a break and don’t take it home with you.


Nicholas McCowan (18:52):
We are notorious overthinkers and teachers work like beyond the hours of the classroom. And I think that, you know, the, the mental stresses of, of that kid who didn’t eat in your class that day, and you worry about what’s going on at home, you, you still want to have that on the back burner, but don’t stay up till two in the morning overthinking how you’re gonna solve that problem, because it’s a group effort. And I think if you keep home and the student, most importantly, I think that that’s where those solutions start to come. So don’t kill yourself, trying to do everything. You know, I think where we’re sort of forced into this business and, and teachers were in the business of knowing so don’t kill yourself if you miss the, if you miss an answer on the board, be open about admitting that, hang on.


Nicholas McCowan (19:43):
I don’t know. And let me look it up for you and let’s learn together. Because each semester you got 30 new people in front of you, and, and you’ve got that times, you know, however many courses you’re teaching. And even if you taught it the same way, and it was successful for, you know, eight straight semesters, maybe these 30 need a brand new take on things. So be open to the new buzzword that we keep getting be flexible. So, you know, like, so be flexible in your own pedagogy and, and in your own lesson planning and curriculum delivery, because it’s really important to know that being perfect. Isn’t the, the be all and end all when you’re delivering curriculum. It’s, it’s good to have that idea in your head.


Sam Demma (20:28):
I love that. One of the pieces of advice I always tell students to is don’t, you know, don’t be afraid or shy away from asking for help. And I think right now it applies to educators more than ever. And there’s this one story called the Oracle of Delphy and it’s a story. It’s an ancient philosophy story about Socrates and an Oracle telling him you’re the wisest person in the land. And he says, no, I’m not. And, and so he goes around to talk to all the other philosophers and asks them, what do you know about life? And they all give him these, these definite answers. And at the end of all of his journey, he realizes, wow, think this Oracle might be right, cuz I’m the only one out of all the philosophers who said, you know, I know that I know nothing, and that’s why I continuously learn. I think educators are the perfect example of that because like by nature, you’re perpetual learners. Like you, you never stop learning. And right now is a chance to just learn a ton more and almost take the role of the student and the teacher, which I think is awesome and presents a cool opportunity. And if, if someone listening wants to be a perpetual learner and dive more into VR and technology and maybe have a conversation with you, what would be the best way for them to reach out and do so?


Nicholas McCowan (21:43):
I think right off the bat, I mean, email is a quick way to get in touch with me. Anyone who wants to ask any questions about what we’ve talked about?


Nicholas McCowan (21:56):
Well also I’m part of two other Instagram initiatives where I’m part of a group called @teachersmeetteachers. It’s not a dating site, it’s for for teachers to share resources and ideas and I’m it’s, it’s given me so many outlets to either share some amazing resources that I’ve found or engage in conversation with teachers or experiencing the same challenges. So give them a follow and coming up right now me and another teacher of mine, we’re starting up a new page @teachmetoolbox. And we’re gonna be putting up sort of valuable resources that will really help you get through the COVID times right now. So give those two a follow if you can.


Sam Demma (22:52):
Awesome. Perfect. Nick, do me one more favor and repeat your email one time and cut out a little bit.


Nicholas McCowan (22:55):
Sorry. Yeah. It’s nicholas.mccowan@tcdsb.org.


Sam Demma (23:10):
Nick, It’s been a pleasure. Thanks so much for coming on and maybe I’ll see you in person VR pretty soon.


Nicholas McCowan (23:15):
Let’s hope, man. Let’s hope, man.


Sam Demma (23:18):
Yeah, you’re welcome. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this call content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Nicholas McCowan

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Cooperative Education Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Diana Speranza – Catholic Educator and Life Long Learner

Diana Speranza – Catholic Educator and Life Long Learner
About Diana Speranza

Diana (@speranza_dpcdsb) is committed to a life of learning, inspiring students to be engaged in the learning process, building strong relationships, ensuring that all voices are heard, and working hard to help the underdog and the most vulnerable. She studied at St. Michael’s College-University of Toronto and the University of Western Sydney, Australia.

As a secondary administrator in DPCDSB Diana works hard to create a welcoming school culture of inclusivity that allows for staff and students to share their gifts and talents, voice their opinions and work collaboratively to make school a safe place of learning, growth and compassion.

Connect with Diana: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Dufferin-Peel Catholic District School Board

Cardinal Ambrozic

Anti-Racism Resources

St. Marguerite d’Youville Secondary School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. I’m your show host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Before we get into today’s awesome interview with another amazing educator, I have something of value that I wanna share. If you’ve ever struggled with teaching your students virtually, if you’ve ever struggled with getting them to turn their cameras on, I have have assembled all the information that I’ve learned and developed over the past six months of presenting to students virtually I’ve spoken at over 50 events since COVID hit back in March and I’ve taken my best tips, my gear list, and any special ninja tricks and assembled it all into a free five video mini course, you can go and get access to it right now www.highperformingeducator.com. And if you do pick it up, you will also get added to a private group of educators who tune into this show. People who have been interviewed on this show and you’ll have access to opportunities to network and meet like-minded individuals during this tough time.


Sam Demma (00:59):
So if that sounds like it might be helpful, go to www.highperformingeducator.com, grab the free course and get involved in the high performing educators network. That’s Enough for me and onto the show. Today’s high performing educator guest is Diana Speranza. She was educated at St. Michael’s College University of Toronto, and at the University of Western Sydney all the way in Australia, she is committed to a life of learning, inspiring students to be engaged in the learning process. Building strong relationships, ensuring that all voices are heard and working hard to help the underdog and the most vulnerable as a secondary administer in the Dufferin-Peel Catholic District School Board, Diana works hard to create a welcoming school called of inclusivity that allows for staff and students to share their gifts and talents, voice their opinions, and work collaboratively to make school a safe place of learning growth and compassion. Enjoy today’s interview with Diana. Diana, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show after connecting with few times, why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing how you even got into education?


Diana Speranza (02:11):
Okay. Well thank you, Sam so much for having me. It was nice to have a couple chats with you and I’ve done a little bit of research and, you know checked out a little bit about what you, you know, the stuff that you’re doing and you’re doing amazing things for kids. And thank you so much for doing that. So I’m Diana, Diana Speranza. I’m currently at Cardinal Ambrozic CSS formally, I guess like VP, but currently in the role of interim acting principal currently. And I’ve been in education for a long time by what, 25 years, 26 years. And I came into education because I had a lifelong need to learn. And was turned on to learning in school in high school. And it wasn’t necessarily, you know, becoming an educator wasn’t necessarily always the top thing on my list of priorities, but the learning process always was right.


Diana Speranza (03:15):
So like wanting to continue to learn, going to know why did I go to university to continue learning? Not because I had it in my head, this is what I wanted to be. And a lot of that came from and was sparked by the experiences that I had as a student in high school and in elementary school, so different raised nice. And now working too. So yeah, it’s lengthy journey to get here, but absolutely. You know, I wouldn’t trade, I wouldn’t turn trade it, you know, in, for the world. Like, I mean, I know that I’m doing what I was called to do and, you know, working with kids and working with teachers now, my teachers and students, and trying to share that you know, that’s inspiration for learning and you know, is, is kind of, you know, it’s important right to me.


Sam Demma (04:08):
So it’s awesome. I love that. Tell, tell me more about how you were turned onto education. Like, what does that mean? What were those experiences that you had that kinda led you down this path?


Diana Speranza (04:20):
Okay. So I’m gonna give you like an example that, you know, we talked about before I stand, right. but in high school I had always been a, a student, like, you know, even prior to high school, a student who kind of, you know who worked hard, was conscientious you know you know, insured that, you know, I doing everything that was asked of me to do in a sense of like, you know meeting all the, the, you know, the guidelines and regulations and whatever. But it was really in high school particularly with this one teacher Ramona Gosky who I think was the turn on to really lifelong learning to me. Right. because it was with her that I started to see that it’s not about just checking the boxes, ensuring that you’re, you know, studying and, you know, and, you know, passing tests and doing well and getting good grades and appeasing your parents.


Diana Speranza (05:13):
And, you know, it wasn’t just that, right. It was with her, it was all about, you know, why is it that you wanna learn? And let me tell you in grade grade nine in English I was, it was my first failure, really, like, you know, it was at that time when I was going to school, cause it was many years ago, we were like terms. And so you had the same eight courses for the entire school year. And if you passed like, you know, your first term exam, then you got exempted from the rest. So, you know, that was happening in all of my courses with the exception of you know, my English class was morning course. So first English exam in high school. And technically, yeah, well, yeah, first English exam in high school and failed, it got a 47.


Diana Speranza (05:57):
Right. and, and I really hadn’t failed at anything, you know prior to grade nine. And so that was a big thing for me. Right. He was like, oh my goodness, what happened? How could this possibly happen? You know, my answers were, you know, along and they were like, I filled in all the boxes and I felt right. And for me that was a huge moment in the sense that, oh my goodness, like, how could I not have right. Achieved, you know, with the expectations of what she was looking for then turns, you know, after that you go, you know, how did that happen have that conversation with the teacher and in that conversation with her that one conversation, even though we had had many it was in the, in those moments that I learned that, you know what was I going to do?


Diana Speranza (06:45):
What did I have to do to try to impress this woman to get a passing grade and I worked so hard, right. You know, okay. Tell me what I need to do. Okay. I’m gonna do this, I’m gonna try it once. I’m gonna try it twice. I’m gonna show her to see if this is good and I’m gonna work on progress. And so the rest of that school year became me trying to work towards, you know meeting her expectations. And as I was meeting her expectations, I was then starting to actually get turned onto that process of learning. Right. Mm-hmm and how it’s all about like, you know, getting better, you know, doing more expanding your knowledge. Right. So all of that became part of not just checking the boxes of accomplishing things. It became part of the process of kind of learning.


Diana Speranza (07:24):
And it was at that moment that I, that, you know, and I’m so glad that I had that in early high school, because the way that I then treated high school for the remainder of it was to what are my interests, you know you know, what are the things that I, it, it became very different for me. And I, I don’t wanna say that I was no longer mark driven but I was very, very much less mark driven, right. Because of that particular experience. But I wanna talk a little bit more about her and what she did.


Sam Demma (07:52):
Yeah. Tell me, yeah. Tell me, like, I wanna pause for one second though, and just reflect on the, a fact that you fell in love with learning through failure. And I think that’s really awesome because a lot of the time we think that you’ll fall in love with things when you succeed at them. But sometimes it’s the total opposite. And I think your story is a phenomenal example to show that sometimes struggle, isn’t a bad thing. You might find yourself in struggle might find yourself in hard times in, in hardship whether it’s failing French class or blowing up your knees on the pursuit of a career, you know so with that being said, please tell me more about what Ramona did for you that made it such a transformative experience in her class.


Diana Speranza (08:38):
And it was that, that sitting down with you and kind of walking you through her life, like actually bringing her life examples. Right. Mm. And talking about her failures in life, right. Yeah. And not too much, cause I didn’t really reveal a lot as like high school teacher that I eventually went on to have in multiple years. And I think I, I might have mentioned this to you before that you know, I wanted to have her as a teacher. Right. later on. And so that did get an opportunity to have her two times more nice you know, in high school because I wanted to be pushed and I wanted to be challenged and I wanted to have all those things happen. Like I, I said before, like this is, that was my first kind of failing experience, but it, it definitely has not been my only right.


Diana Speranza (09:20):
Like I continue to go through life failing at particular things, you know, you work hard. But you’re so right. Like we learned from those particular examples. Right. so in that process with her it was just a spark, right? Like there was a enlightenment that I had in, in high school about wanting to learn, wanting to be more wanting to be better. And starting to learn from the times that I wasn’t right. Successful or things didn’t necessarily go my way. Right. How do you take those particular examples or, you know, those times and turn them into something that’s gonna then motivate you and make you stronger. Right. Mm-hmm so with her I continued like, you know, having this relationship, I went off to, you know, study at university and, you know, everybody, what do you wanna be? What are you studying at university?


Diana Speranza (10:10):
And again, for me, it was, what do I want to learn more about? Right. It wasn’t a matter of, this is what I wanna be, you know, like thoughts have gone through, like, I studied science in my first year university. So I had dentistry and I had some things on my mind, but it wasn’t a matter that I had a kind of ideal job or career that I wanted to do. It was about learning. And so that’s why I went off and, and, and and it was her and in a, in a series of conversations that I remember her having a, with not only with me, but with students in our class about, you know, life is this journey, right. A, a, a, a long journey of learning and becoming right. And in those moments is when I learn that, okay, that, that’s what I want for myself.


Diana Speranza (10:55):
I wanna continue to expand the things that I know, expand the experiences that I have, and, and eventually turn those into opportunities for other people. Right. And going off to university and studying, and then eventually going to teachers college and then landing myself, you know, a, a full-time teaching gig was so, you know, I was so grateful and so blessed to be able to, you know, do that, that, you know, it has been, I, I, I’m just gonna, I’m gonna switch gears for just a second and just say, yeah, a couple years ago, I was on a trip to New York city with a cousin of mine from Australia, my brother and my nephew. So my nephew at the time, I think was probably nine and were sitting in the airport on the way back you know, waiting for our flight to come back Toro.


Diana Speranza (11:43):
And he says to me, out of nowhere, Diana you know, what’s your ideal, what would be your ideal job, right? What would you love to be doing? And my answer was so quick and I responded to him, I am doing it, I’m doing it. And I really like, it was interesting for him to ask me that. And then, and then I kind of reflected on not only how great of a question that was for him to actually ask me, but how quickly I responded with that piece. Right. And, and it, and the reason I think for that is because not only the role of, you know, the vocation of an educator for me is so important, it’s this learning process and it never stops. It never stops. You’re learning from everybody around you, right. You’re learning from students, you’re learning from your colleagues. And and it’s been, you know, such a, a godsend to be able to, you know, to, to experience this. And, but my Ramona story gonna go back to.


Sam Demma (12:35):
It sounds good. I love the, I love the story about New York.


Diana Speranza (12:40):
He so let’s go back to the morning. So I go off to talk teachers college in teachers college. I’m in Australia actually. So I undergrad at U of T off to teachers college at the university of Western Sydney, just outta outside of Sydney, Australia. Nice. And in one of our courses, I can’t remember which one it was. We had an assignment and that assignment was kind of to reflect on a teacher who had inspired or touched you in some particular way that caused you to come to this particular moment, you know, being in the faculty event. And I did that right. Reflected on the fact that I know it’s, I don’t, I don’t need much time to kinda, I know exactly what woman that was in my life who had that impact. And so I took it a little step further.


Diana Speranza (13:23):
And as I was writing this reflection that we had to him before, for the course, I thought, you know what, I haven’t been in touch with miss Gorsky. How amazing may it be to be able to write her letter? So I wrote her a letter. And so I wrote her a letter saying, you know, we got this assignment in class, and this is what I was asked to do. And I just want you to know that this is the impact that you have had on my life, right? Mm. This is the inspiration that you may not really know that you were, but I want you to know this is who you were to me and put it all in the letter and off it went. So I get back from the faculty of ed. I proceed to go through, you know, I get, I, you know, I get a job quite quickly when I get back to Canada.


Diana Speranza (14:01):
And I go on to teach and I teach at St. Paul’s for seven years when I first, you know, graduated from teacher college and came and came back home. So seven years at St. Paul’s, eventually I end up at you know, I guess in, I guess, eight, the eight year of teaching. I end up at St. Margaret Deville in Branson. And so as department head of social science, I had applied to a job there and moved to another school knowing at that time only when I got into do the when I went in to have the interview that Ramona Gorsey was on staff. And I had heard that she was up at a school in Brampton. I just didn’t know which one it was. And so I was excited that I would eventually be on staff if I was successful in this interview with this woman.


Diana Speranza (14:46):
And so I become a, a, you know, a staff member at at St Margaret Jugo at the time. And just before the start of the school year, like we got together for like a series of meetings and like, you know, a day in August like a, a retreat and, and so on. And so I see her, she sees me, I’m like overwhelmed with emotion, and I go up to her this huge hug you know, and, and we are crying both of us. And she says to me I just got your letter and I’m thinking, what letter is she talking about? I just, cause it’s been years now, right. It’s been almost 10 years from the fact nine years from the time that I wrote that letter to the time that, you know, I’m having this moment with her, she goes, I got your letter.


Diana Speranza (15:32):
I said, when did you get this letter? Yeah. A long time ago. And she says, no, I got the letter 10 days ago, or last week. It was just like the week before. Right. Wow. And I said last week and she had, she didn’t have it at that moment. But when we met in September, she brought the actual letter in, it had been all over the place. She had moved from the time that I had, you know, written that letter. She had changes, she moved homes and I guess back and forth the post office, it had stamps, you know, markings and all over it. It looked like it had been through everything. And she had said to me, I just got this last week. I had just got this last week. And the like, wow, to me, that’s not chance. Yeah. That that happens.


Diana Speranza (16:14):
Right. Like, I mean and being mentored by Ramona Goby and having that opportunity now to be able to work as a colleague, it took me a while you know, to be able to work as a colleague with her because she was a huge inspiration to meet. Right. Yeah. And I know that a law of what I became as an educator was because of who she was. Right. And what, you know, what the process that, you know, she helped instill in me and that whole focus on the process, focus on the journey. Right. The outcome will come when the outcome is ready. Right. Like, I mean, it’s that development process and I’ve taken the out as a lifelong, like real lesson. Right. Like, I mean yeah, like I’m, there’s been other things in my life that I had to go through.


Diana Speranza (17:02):
Like I’ve had, I had a challenging illness a few years ago. And, and that too has been, been, had, has become part of the journey for me. Right. on ensure that you learn like these things are, I don’t wanna say they’re put on our plate. Right. Because a lot of what we achieve in life and a lot of things that we do are because of the decisions that we make because of the, you know, the choices that we make because of the roads or past we’ve we’ve chosen. But I, I wanna go back to that point that you made at the beginning, like, you know, it really is like out of the failure, out of the, you know, the lows in our life is where we, you know, oftentimes can do the most learning. Right. And and I’m hoping that that’s what I’m instilling in the students that I kind of, I come in contact with. Right.


Sam Demma (17:53):
Awesome. I love it. That’s such a good story. And it’s such a cool story because, you know, if we think about how many letters students have wrote to educators and teachers that didn’t find them, right. Like yours got through after nine years. Right. But there’s so many letters that kids probably write. And so many emails they try send, but sorry, teacher moves school. So their email bounced back. Sorry, we can’t, you know, there, I want you to think about this, like the educator listening. I want you to think that you probably have someone just like Diana when she was a student that you inspired, just like Ramona did that tried reaching out it to you and maybe couldn’t find you, you know, sometimes sometimes the teacher hears about it other times they, they, they might, they may never, but you know, the, the same goes, if a tree falls in the forest, it still makes noise. Right. So, you know, you’re still impacting the kid, whether, whether there’s a letter attached to it or not. But your story’s such a be example of fate. It’s like a, this is, I dunno how else to put it, right. Yeah. It’s just 10 days before you meet her in your school. That’s, that’s insane. Are you still in touch with Ramona today?


Diana Speranza (19:03):
So I am well, not that we contact each other, you know, daily or, or, you know, regularly. She lives in a, like, you know, in a smaller town. And I often visit that small town. Nice. And oftentimes we’ll connect on the streets right. Where, you know she’s you know, taking her walk and, you know, I’m going to my favorite place for coffee you know, and, and will meet on the, on the side of the street. So I have spoken to her a few times in over the pandemic just because my getaway place is to go country driving. Yes. You know, and head out her way. And so oftentimes I’ll, I’ll see her out there. But yeah, she’s absolutely, you know, a phenomenal individual and I’m so grateful to have had her and have her in my you know yeah, it’s just, it was great to be able to teach beside her. Right. Yeah. For the years when, when, when we were together at St. Louisville.


Sam Demma (20:03):
Oh, that’s awesome. And I, I mean, this, this interview gives you a reason to send her a link, maybe right. Exactly. Yes. Which is awesome. But shifting gears a tiny bit into what school looks like now, you know, you started education, I think you said 25, 26 years ago. Things probably look a little different this year. and maybe the end of last year. And I’m curious to know, you know, like what are some of the important things you think we should keep mind when it comes to educating students today? Like in today’s environment.


Diana Speranza (20:37):
Yeah. and that’s a big question.


Sam Demma (20:40):
Yeah. There’s, and there’s so many perspectives, but if you have one or two ideas, like yeah, yeah.


Diana Speranza (20:45):
Like it is very different, right. Like, I mean, it’s very different today. It just, at our school alone, we’ve got the majority of our kids are online versus physically in the building, even when they’ve got that choice to be back in the building. So we don’t have that. Right. so with, you know, with that being said just the not being connected and not being face to face is hard. Not having those, you know physical daily check-ins right. Like you’re doing that. Teachers are doing that online. But you know, kids are comfortable in their homes. You may not have your camera on you know, when you’re in a classroom if you’re used to the, you know, the way that a kid kind of you know, walks in and what they’re are like, you can tell if they’re not, well, that day body language you can ask that’s right.


Diana Speranza (21:32):
You can ask today, is everything all right today? You don’t have that. Right. So I think right now teachers are very concerned with, do they have a good sense of how their students are feeling right, because delivering material to they delivering content you know, and being able to challenge and engage kids I think, you know, teachers are good at making that switch. Okay. So now you’re not here in front of me, but I’m gonna have all these other ways of which I’m gonna be able to reach you and teachers are good at making, you know, planning and doing those things to be able to engage students, you know, now in a different, in a different way. But that checking in to make sure that they’re okay part right, is, is harder at, you know, when they’re not physically in front of you.


Diana Speranza (22:17):
I think that’s a big thing right now, and that’s also for us as administrators checking in on our staff. Right. Making sure that, you know, it’s very easy to go through this and, you know, you’re coming into work and, you know, yeah. I’m okay when you’re at, but are we really okay? Like, are we all really doing okay? Yeah. Like you’ve heard it, you know, many, a times over the pandemic, you know, call, you know, your loved ones, call your friends, check in on them. Like the same thing. Like, you know, we’re doing stuff like, you know, we try to make contact in the building during the day when we were off, like, you know, when we were, everybody was online learning and there weren’t students in the building or staff in the building, you try to do that, pick up the phone, you know, give a staff member of call, find out how they’re doing.


Diana Speranza (22:55):
But it is, it is extremely difficult, but like I also, I also must say that, you know, education has, has needed a little bit of a, a change, right. A shake like yes, shake revolution. I, I, I keep saying, you know, education needs a little bit of, of a revolution and, and it’s starting to happen. Right. Yeah. And it’s happening, happening in the, in the way of the forced inclusion of multidimensions of technology, right? Various technology the forced, you know, revolution of ensuring that our curriculum is inclusive for everyone, right? So there’s a shake up that’s happening. And to me, this excites me as an educator. It excites me that, you know, these are things that are going to be happening because ultimately these are things that are good for kids. So if I, anything that we can do to improve the educational experience for kids I’m all about supporting that, right.


Diana Speranza (23:54):
So as much as it’s been difficult and you know, sometimes you’ll hear people say, I just can’t wait till we go back to normal. I don’t wanna see us go back to normal edge education, the way that it was prior to this happening. Right. Mm-hmm there needs to be, we need to come out of this situation improved. We need to come out better people. We need to come out better educators. Right. and we, we, the, that’s my, you know, hope that as we’re going through these things and learning more and they don’t become, they’re no longer, oh, this is a new way. It becomes the way then I think it opens and it creates a path for continuing to evolve. Right. Cause the question you really asked me was, you know, how do I, you know, because I’ve been in education for so long, it must look so different.


Diana Speranza (24:41):
Right. And the fact is up until this, it really didn’t look that D it didn’t really look different from, you know, it didn’t really even look different from when I was in school really. Right. like if I look at other industries they all change other in yeah. And, and education, there was a lot of it that was still very similar. And over the years, like, I mean, you, you jump on the train and you make the change that need to happen. But I think this has really caused us to have to make some real, real big changes that will ultimately have a, a greater impact.


Sam Demma (25:20):
I believe that so true. Like my, my parents used to, my dad used to lecture me on the side of the soccer, her field, Sam, there was a guy open on the right side of the field. Why didn’t you pass him the ball? I’m like dad. And I’m like, I’ll do what I wanna do. And he always just, he always used to tell me, he’s like, but you don’t understand when you’re in the game. You don’t see the things that I see. And it’s a whole analogy of when you’re in the picture, you don’t see the frame or when you’re in the frame, you don’t see the picture. Not sure the analogy, then it’s kind of true with, like, with work, you get into the grind of things and, you know, you just continuously do the, the things that work or provide a great opportunity and at no fault to education at all.


Sam Demma (26:01):
But I think you’re right. Like the challenge is leading to growth, new questions, new opportunities shaking things up, shaking things down. Like, I think it’s a super cool shift. And I know like your school has so many different clubs that have come to fruition and, you know, you’re putting a huge emphasis on student voice. What are some of the initiatives that are going on in the school right now that, you know, maybe Angelo and Jason and yourself kind of collaborated on and all the other amazing teachers that I don’t know about just yet, but I will soon.


Diana Speranza (26:32):
Our, our school is extremely vibrant right. In the area of extracurriculars. And even during this pandemic you know, all of these things are still happening. They’re not physically necessarily happening in the building. You know, our kids aren’t gathered after school in the building, but they’re gathered online. I can tell you that they’re in zoom meetings and team and, you know, and and meets, and, you know, they’re in places where there’s wonderful things that are happening. So we’ve got quite a few you know, ongoing committees or, you know student groups. So you got a student kind of leadership program, right? Well, not program, but like a student leadership group. And it’s called castle. And basically what it stands for is partner lambic, student leadership experience. Nice. and and, and under the umbrella, there are series of different of groups.


Diana Speranza (27:18):
So we’ve got our student council, we’ve got our core and chaplaincy group. We’ve got brave which is all about kind of anti-bullying and mental health awareness. We’ve got our black history month, we’ve got our equity and diversity ambassadors. We have spectrum, which is our LGBTQ group. So we’ve got I’m hoping I’m not missing any groups. And then that’s from other things that are running, right. This is just kind of our, our big, our leadership groups. And all those, you know, groups are so vibrant right now and, and still working on things. And so what kind of things are they working on? Our, so we’ve black history, our black history committee, cuz we are in the month of, of February has been working on a series of of not events, but you know, ideas.


Diana Speranza (28:10):
They put out through social media, a number of, of different things celebrating black excellence. And so they’ve kind of the group has gone and looked at. They’ve wanted to kind of bring it up to today. Like oftentimes in black history members were studying people from the past and kids, their, their voice has been saying like, you know, tell us about the people today that are doing things like, let’s talk a little bit about, I love that what people are doing today. And so this way I can feel like I can relate. Yeah, I can do what that person’s doing or I can see myself having that. So they’ve taken kind of black, excellent through the decades. Right. And so we started off with black once they started from the beginning to just 2000 to 2020. Right.


Diana Speranza (28:48):
So they took that time. And I think yesterday we just published the fifties to seventies. So on our Instagram, on our Twitter feed for Cardinal Ambrosek, we put that out there with some hashtags, which is, you know, the hashtag remembering black excellence. And, and yes, that’s what they’re doing right now with that. They’ve also putting together the focus students want to be heard, right. Mm-Hmm all, everybody, everybody wants to be heard. That’s a human thing. Right. We just wanna be hurt. And so the they’re focusing on an exhibit, they’re wanting to create a students created exhibit where teachers would kind of almost like a museum where teachers would walk through this exhibit and hearing their voices. Right. So it would be images of them their voices explaining their particular feelings about, you know, racism or inequalities.


Diana Speranza (29:46):
Hmm. You know, and, and it’s called, hear us, can you hear us? Right. Interesting. And so, and that will be for, you know, the adults in the building for teachers in our adults to kind of hear this is what students are feeling about the experience they’ve had in society and have they haven’t always been open, right? Yeah, yeah. That they want to be able to now voice and, and be heard we had an anti-black racism campaign. So Angelo was, you know, the lead on that. And we started that think in November. And we’re continuing they, I guess in December we started the of 100 days of anti-black racism and posting to social media, there were announcements and reflections, and that was quite a an eye opening experience, I think for a lot of our kids.


Diana Speranza (30:35):
And I think the, the best part that’s come out of that is that kids are feeling still to be able to share their stories. Cause they know that people are listening. Right. And, and that’s our greatest thing in education, right? Like, I mean, I’ve, I’ve been a believer. I continue to believe that every kid should be able to come to school and know that there’s one adult in the building, that’s got their back, right. That there’s somebody that they can go to somebody they can trust somebody that they can go to if they need some mentorship. And if they’re feeling, if we amplify that by saying that there are multiple people in this building that you can go to and you can trust because you know, you’re being heard and you’re being seen then we’ve done our job, right. Because at the end of the day, yes, education is important. And you know, the courses in getting credits and graduating are important, but it’s also important on how we make students feel. Right. And the connections that the, that we ensure that they have.


Sam Demma (31:31):
Yeah. Yeah. It’s so true. I mean, if we think about action and taking action, it all stems from your beliefs and emotions. So if a student doesn’t feel safe, they’re gonna take actions that relate to the feeling of not feeling safe and that will lead to a specific result if you change their beliefs and they start to believe, no, there are people I can talk to in this school that care about me. And like you said, who wanna support me and help me, that would lead to a more empowering emotion, which would lead to more positive action, which would lead to the better result, hopefully. So I agree. I think like caring for the person is so important aside from the curriculum. And I think it’s really cool that the school is putting a huge focus on that. I wanna shift this interview slightly for a second and ask you to ask your younger self. So if you were speaking to, you know, Diana from year one, as a teacher, what would you have told your younger self, knowing what you know now about education, about teaching advice for yourself when you were getting into this role?


Diana Speranza (32:36):
I’d have lots to say to her because I have seen, I’ve seen that, you know, the transition. Yeah. I, I have seen that. Well, it’s call it progression, right? Yeah. I’d say don’t be so hard on yourself. Right. That’s what I say to her. And lighten up a little bit. That’s what I’d say. Those would be the main things I say. And the reason why I’d say them is because as a, a, you know, a new educator, once you come into this field and I think it’s, I’m sure it’s true in many jobs is that you’re so worried about doing it. Right. Right. And so you’re so worried about ensuring that, you know, your, your lessons are planned to ITT and it’s organized and there’s, there’s no little wiggle room that a kid can’t get off topic. And, you know, you’re concerned about the way you’re marking.


Diana Speranza (33:19):
You’re not necessarily giving second chances because this is the way that it is. Right. Mm-hmm . And and I was fortunate like, well, I was fortunate to know that for me, that transition happened a lot after having hi, having had my own kids. Right. So you know, I was a teacher for, I don’t know how many years before I had kids, maybe let’s call it five years. I actually then had, had a child five, six years that having a child then became another piece for me to add on because now every kid in front of me was somebody’s kid. Not that I didn’t realize that before that. But it made me really realize that after having had my own. Right. so I, I would say that’s what I would say. I’d say kind of like get to know the learners that are in front of you get to know those kids.


Diana Speranza (34:05):
And, and I think I did that, but not at all. As well as I believe I did that as I continued on that journey. Right. that’s what I’d, I’d say, you know, the rules need to be followed right. You need to be doing those things. It’s very, very important, but I’d also say you know, don’t be so hard in yourself and really get to know the kids, because once you get to know the kids, get to know the learner, then you’re better at doing everything. Cause you know, who you’re preparing for, what you’re doing. You know, you’re able to make your assessments and you’re, and their material, you know, targeted towards what their interests are. And so that’s, that’s what I, you know, would’ve said to Diana, you know when she was starting off.


Sam Demma (34:53):
I love that. I love that. That’s awesome. And if someone’s listened into this conversation has been slightly inspired or, or feels the need to reach out to you and have a conversation about something you shared or something you said, what would be the best way for another educator listening to this, to reach out to you?


Diana Speranza (35:11):
So they could reach me at my email address at diana.speranza@dpcdsb.org. They could follow me on Twitter or on Instagram. And on Instagram and Twitter, I’m there by my first name and my last name. So you find me there, my first name, last name and yeah, I’d be you know, happy to engage in conversation in regards to, you know anything that we talked about here today.


Sam Demma (35:47):
Cool. Diana, thank you so much for doing this. I appreciate you sharing some of your story into education, some of your philosophies on education. Yeah, I really appreciate it. I look forward to staying in touch and watching the cool stuff that continues to unfold at Cardinal Ambrozic.


Diana Speranza (36:01):
Thank you so much, Sam. Thank you for having me on your program. And thank you for having this, you know, this, this podcast for people to be able to kind of join and listen and, and share ideas. Thank you so much.


Sam Demma (36:13):
You’re welcome. Talk soon. And there you have it. Another amazing evening guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Diana Speranza

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Experiential Learning Principals Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Cortnie Freeman – Dance Teacher and How to Adjust Virtually

Cortnie Freeman – Dance Teacher & How to Adjust Virtually
About Cortnie Freeman

Cortnie has been teaching for the past 12 years with the Durham Catholic District School Board. Her passion for teaching drives from a growth mindset that no one is ever done learning.

Cortnie currently teaches at the AMP Arts School in Durham where her passion for dance and teaching continues to grow as she develops young dancers to be all that they dream to become one day.

Connect with Cortnie: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Durham Catholic District School Board

Arts and Media Program Arts School

Zoom

Teaching with Zoom

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome to the High Performing Rducator podcast. I’m your show host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Before we get into today’s awesome interview with another amazing educator, I have something of value that I wanna share. If you’ve ever struggled with teaching your students virtually, if you’ve ever struggled with getting them to turn their cameras on, I have have assembled all the information that I’ve learned and developed over the past six months of presenting to students virtually I’ve spoken at over 50 events since COVID hit back in March and I’ve taken my best tips, my gear list, and any special ninja tricks and assembled it all into a free five video mini course, you can go and get access to it right now at www.highperformingeducator.com. And if you do pick it up, you will also get added to a private group of educators who tune into this show. People who have been interviewed on this show and you’ll have access to opportunities to network and meet like-minded individuals during this tough time.


Sam Demma (00:59):
So if that sounds like it might be helpful, go to www.highperformingeducator.com, grab the free course and get involved in the high performing educators. Network enough for me and onto the show. Today’s special guest is Cortnie Freeman. This is someone who actually taught at the high school that I grew up at at St. Mary Catholics, Secondary School. My sister, Franchesca actually had Ms. Freeman as her dance, her dance teacher, I believe. And I can always remember her coming home from school and just sharing how much she enjoyed her class, loved the way she taught, loved her style, loved her energy, and it’s apparent more than ever in this podcast episode. She has a huge passion for teaching and she shares that today on the show. I hope you enjoy this. I hope you have a pen and paper, so you can take some notes and I will see you on the other side of this conversation with Cortnie. Thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. It’s an absolute pleasure to have you on today. Can you share with the audience who you are and why you got into that you do with young people today?


Cortnie Freeman (02:05):
My name is Cortnie Freeman and I’ve been teaching now for 12 years. Sometimes that seems like it’s gone by really fast in other days. It seems like holy cow. Why I got into what I do is I feel teaching almost chose me in a way I never like growing up. I was never kind of like, I’m gonna be a teacher. It was just something that as life went on and I was trying to find more purpose in what I love to do. I got nothing more satisfying than when I was teaching students. Like my first year teaching was probably one of the best years of my life. I just feel like it’s, it’s a profession where you, you have to be a life learner. You have to constantly want to know what’s happening. What’s going on. You’re meeting new students every year.


Cortnie Freeman (02:56):
So you’re engaging them different ways. And it’s just, it’s something that I cannot see myself doing anything other than doing. I just love the opportunity to make a difference in students lives. I wanna be able to make that connections with them. I wanna be a positive stepping stone in this journey of life, especially in the high school realm. I feel like those are really a crucial times in kids’ lives. And I really love the opportunity to kind of just dig in deep with them and help them find kind of who they are and where they wanna take their life.


Sam Demma (03:32):
It’s, it’s so true when you mention, you have to find different ways to connect with them and engage with them every single year. And I think this year specifically, that’s true now more than ever. And I’m curious to know for you specifically, how has teaching online slash in the classroom been for you and have you figured anything out that’s been successful or had any experiences that totally flopped and you learned from that you think might be valuable to share?


Cortnie Freeman (04:03):
I would say for me, like, it was really challenging at first. I originally, you know, wanted to do the teaching in school as opposed to the online portion. So I thought I would be seeing students a lot and then we kind of got into it and it’s, I don’t, I hardly see them at all. You know, it’s, it’s a very 50/50 mix. So majority of my day is on the computer. And for me that’s a big change because seeing my students every day is kind of why I became a teacher, right? Like I wanna see them, I wanna have those daily conversations and those daily check ins with them. And I I’ve noticed that even when I see them on Zoom, it’s tough to get those conversations with them going, you know, I have these little boxes of their cute little faces online, and I wanna have one on one conversations with them, but that’s gonna take up the whole hour we have together because I need to click on each kid have that conversation.


Cortnie Freeman (04:56):
Right. So I’m finding where before it’s like they walk in the class, you can have a quick check in say, hi, how how’s it going? So I’m finding the biggest challenge right now is just keeping those connections with my students going and like, those kids need those connections. Right. So I’m finding that that’s been the biggest challenge so far and just keeping them motivated when they’re not with me and engaged . So I’ve had to change a lot of my lessons and just kind of not make them so on the computer. So when it is kind of those Zoom moments, when we have the whole week where it’s online to give them assignments that take them away from the computer. So we have our check-ins, I give them the assignment, but instead of having them write about, you know, somebody, I want them to go out and explore about it. So here’s an element here’s an idea and I’ll go and explore with it instead of writing about it, just to kind of get them out of the technology realm.


Sam Demma (05:58):
Awesome. How else have you changed your curriculum? You mentioned changing curriculum. I’m curious to know if there’s anything else that’s been helpful for you that you think might be helpful for another educator. Who’s struggling to kind of adjust to the new reality?


Cortnie Freeman (06:13):
Yeah, it’s funny. I’ve had to change it quite a bit, actually. I’m, I’m finding that you know, a lot of my pieces have turned into reflection pieces, so instead of you know, it’s tough because I’m not a normal, I, I hate saying that, but I’m not like a normal teacher, right. Like I teach a subject that dance. So a lot of it is physical and in order to, to make it equitable for all students, I can’t, a lot of ’em don’t have homes where they can just start dancing everywhere. Right. So I’ve had to change a lot to make sure that every student, when they’re not with me still has access to be able to engage in the lessons. So I’m finding that a lot of my pieces instead of I kind of, sorry, I’m repeating a bit from previous, but, you know, instead of them writing a paragraph about, you know, we just did healthy eating, I’ve got them to do like a little blog on it.


Cortnie Freeman (07:06):
So they’re out in their kitchen. They’ve actually had, now they’re at home. Right. So instead of them talking about it in class, they’re at home. So they’ve now been able to create a little like actually show the food. They can make it with us in the class. So just trying to get them engaged in physical, in their learning a little bit more than just sitting at their computer all the time. And just especially this year, I find a lot of my subjects have changed. Mm-Hmm as far as, okay. So there’s so much going on in the world today that I think need are hard things to talk about and that kids wanna talk about and they wanna be engaged in it. So I find now too, a lot of my assignments instead of being like, okay, write a reflection piece on this, I’m saying, okay, I want you to choose what you wanna write about mm-hmm and these are kind of the checklists of things you also need to include in. So I’m giving them the basics of what they need to write about, but the topic can be their own choice. And I’m finding that they’re feeling really empowered about being able to choose the subject matter. And then just focusing on like the checklist.


Sam Demma (08:13):
I think options is a great idea right now, especially when there’s so many different topics going on, I applaud you for that, that great. I think if I was in your class, I would, I would’ve loved that option. So keep, keep doing that for sure. And anyone listening, it might be something to consider.


Cortnie Freeman (08:35):
I just find when you give the students the chance to focus, what they’re really passionate about, mm-hmm , it can still, it can still grasp those ideas of, you know, the curriculum, right. They need to do a reflection piece, that’s the curriculum, but what they’re reflecting on can be something that they’re more passionate about and personable about, and it just adds to the level of learning and engagement crazy.


Sam Demma (08:59):
No, that’s true. And the impact it has on the student, I know they’ll enjoy class more and get a better outcome because of it and also have a better experience with you because of it. And I think that’s one of the reasons why Mr. Loud foot from St. Mary had a huge impact on my life. And I stay in contact with him to this day. And you mentioned earlier that one of the main reasons you got into teaching was to change young people’s lives. And I’m sure over the years, you’ve had dozens of people, you know, write you letters you know, Ms. Freeman, thank you so much for everything you did. You changed my life. Maybe some of them even got into dance and now our dance teachers because of your class that, that’s a very rewarding moment. And I want you to think, you know, about an educator who’s listening, who’s burnt out right now, who might want to hear a story about how education has changed a young person’s life. And this could be a story that you’ve personally, you know, of, of someone you’ve personally taught. Who’s written you a lead and you can change their name if it’s a very serious story. Just for the sake of privacy, but share a story about, you know, a kid who is deeply touched by your teaching style or your class in the hope that it’ll inspire other educators to remember, you know, this is really important stuff that we’re doing.


Cortnie Freeman (10:15):
Yeah, that’s, there’s, there’s quite a few, honestly, where I’ve had moments of students that are just like, I would not have gotten. And it’s, it’s so weird saying it out loud because honestly, I feel like when I’m teaching, I’m just being human. I’m just making them feel human. Yeah. You know, I’ve never, I always say when I’m teaching with my dancers that we’re working together, it’s never like, I’m, you know, I never look down on them. I just make them feel like we’re on the same level and we’re in this together. And, you know I feel like the biggest impact I’ve had on most of my students that have written letters to me, or thank me kind of years later is just thank you for seeing me. It’s it’s those years and high school, I find kids get very lost and they get very confused sometimes.


Cortnie Freeman (11:01):
And they’re just, you know, one day they have best friends and then the next day they don’t. And, you know, it’s, it’s a lot of an emotional toll and I was kind of that consistent in their life. Like they knew every day they’d walk in my class. I would have a smile on my face. I would say to them, I would give them good structure in the class and just giving them that steady, especially cause I’ve had them, I have them for the full four years. So I guess the, the one that kind of sticks out to me the most is I had a a foster student in my class. Mm-Hmm I’ve had quite a few of them over the years and you know, it’s hard for those kids to feel like they belong because they’ve been in few homes here and there and they kind of get passed around a bit.


Cortnie Freeman (11:51):
And just this one student I could just tell needed to have that kind of what I’ve said in the past is that consistent adult in their life that believes in them mm. And encourages them, you know, like, even if it’s just checking in on how they’re doing in their other classes, when they come in or saying, Hey, you seem off today, like it’s okay to ask those questions and make them see that I see you. I see when you’re off. I see when you’re doing well. I see when, you know, like, I, I, you know, kind of the idea of like, I’ve got your back and I think that’s important as an educator to remember, we’re not just, we aren’t, we are not just there to teach them the curriculum. And if you are, then you’re just, you’re not doing your job properly.


Cortnie Freeman (12:33):
Really. We are there for the student and curriculum comes with that, but if they’re not whole, and they, they don’t feel comfortable in your class, they don’t feel engaged in your class. Like then they’re not going to get the curriculum. So I always spend like the first week or two weeks of my class, I’m teaching them yes. The curriculum, but that’s my time to really get to know who they are. Mm-Hmm and get to know what they’re into and maybe what their background is, what their struggles are, what really kind of gets, ’em excited about learning. And the more like it’s all about the student, it is. And that’s the biggest thing. I fine when students kind of, you know, say their thanks use to me is thank you for seeing me mm-hmm . And I never wanna forget that moment. And I never wanna forget that each student in my class is honestly so important to me. Like each, each one, the one that, you know, mouthy, the one that’s quiet, the one that’s, you know, like they all are just , it’s just, you have such a small window of their lives that you spend with them. And I wanna make the biggest impact I can. And that, that small little window. And I don’t know, that’s kind of what I find is the most consistent when students kind of reach out to me and, and years later.


Sam Demma (13:50):
I love that. And you alluded to the importance of asking questions, getting to know the students. How else do you see? Like, how else do you make a student feel seen? Like, those are two great examples. Maybe you have anything else that you do during those first two weeks that you think is really impactful?


Cortnie Freeman (14:09):
Yeah. Making them feel seen. I just, you have to be present, you know, know, as a teacher, I never like the idea of they come in my class, I give them work to do, and then I go sit down at a desk. Yeah. You know, like I just, I, I just don’t like that. I, you have to be, it’s such a physical, no matter what subject you’re teaching it’s it has to be like a physical presence as well. You’re walking around, you’re saying high, you are, you know, at the, you know, as the kids walk into your classroom, you’re standing at the door door. You’re saying those highs to them. You’re making sure that, you know, they’re also making connections in the class, you know, it’s not always like, okay, pick your groups. You know, like first two weeks I pick their groups for them.


Cortnie Freeman (14:54):
It seems like such a small, like little thing. But then the more they get a community in that class as well, the better they’re gonna feel. Right. And I have a lot of kids that take like dance is a huge exposure. Like you’re standing in the middle of a room. , you know, there’s no guests, there’s no nothing. And if you’re a kid that’s a little self conscious or, you know, you need to feel like it’s a safe community, especially in, in a realm of a class where it’s all about creating, right. You need to feel vulnerable. You need to allow to, you know, vulnerability is so huge in creating. And I think that’s why the classroom, my C from setting is like my number one, you know? And also like the more you get to know them too, like I’ve taught jazz the jazz lesson, like a hundred times, right?


Cortnie Freeman (15:40):
Like I’ve taught for 12 years now. But do you think I’ve taught it the same twice? No. Because levels are different. Kids are different. Their music is different, you know? So it’s also just staying in tune with, with the kids are into. And so then when they come in, like, I’ll remember things, they said, oh, that was their favorite song. So then next week I’ll like, have it playing as they enter the classroom. And I’m like, I’m so cool. and they’ll me for like dabbing or whatever. Right. Yeah. But it’s just you know, being that positive, happy, even if you’re having happy day as a teacher, like it’s not, that’s not your time. My time is my students. And I need to make sure that if they’re having a bad day, it’s my job to kind of just remind them it’s, it’s good. We’re gonna have fun today. This is gonna be your time to forget about all of that other stuff in life. And we’re just gonna have fun in these, you know, the 70 minutes we see of them for the day.


Sam Demma (16:31):
That’s awesome. And in a virtual scenario, that could be something as simple as commenting on what you see behind somebody as like an object that’s sitting on their shelf. You know, maybe you can’t come up to their desk and talk to ’em on the shoulder, but you can show you’re paying attention and, you know, virtually walking around the classroom by commenting on what you see. I, I did a speaking engagement for a school in Saskatchewan one yesterday. And while I was speaking, a girl went like this and during my speech, I just pulled the peace sign out and she automatically saw it and started laughing because she noticed that I was paying attention. And I think that’s how we can also do it virtually for anyone wondering, you know, how do you transition that into virtual class or virtual school? I, another cool idea might be the, you know, the idea of playing their favorite song. Maybe you can’t play it in class, but maybe you can share the music through your computer as they’re all doing the Zoom room or Uber eats them a coffee or their favorite drink or favorite McDonald’s Sandwich.


Cortnie Freeman (17:29):
So funny you say that, cause my dancers were on Zoom meal other day. And then all of a sudden I just saw like this little, like, and I was like, wait a sec. You know, she just pulls a Starbucks over and I’m like, okay, what’s your go to drink? And it like just opened this whole conversation of like Starbucks and drinking or coffee and was good for you. And we’re like, well, actually this is a good segway into the healthy unit. Right. And it’s, it’s paying attention to those little moments of yeah. Connection, right? Like any relationship, right. It’s being aware and communicating.


Sam Demma (18:01):
Yeah. Just being interested, showing interest.


Cortnie Freeman (18:04):
Being interested. Exactly. Showing interest. I, I want to get to know you. I, I want you in my class, especially if they’re absent. Right. Like I find if a student’s away for a day in my class. Oh. They will know that. I notice that they were not there in a good way though. Like not like, where were you? Well, sometimes I do that. But just being like, Hey, where were you yesterday? The class is not the same when you’re not here. Right. And like, sometimes I get your looks on their face, but just letting them know that, Hey, we missed you. And this class is made up of 24 students. And when you’re not in here, it throws the shift off. Right. We need you all here. We like, you know, and it kind of reminds them that when they’re not there they’re, they’re missed. Right.


Sam Demma (18:40):
Yeah. That’s so important. I’ve never, I don’t think I ever had a teacher who, who, after missing a class said, we missed you here. It wasn’t the same. so that’s, that’s cool. I love that actually. Yeah, that’s a great, that’s a great point. If you could travel back in time to your first year teaching, you know, you just got into it. You’re probably confused a little bit unaware of what was going on excited, but also overwhelmed by all the new realities and systems and procedures and all this stuff. What advice would you have and think about, you know, the educator who’s just starting, just teaching like their, their first year is this year and they’re thinking, you know, what the heck did I sign up for? This is crazy. What advice would you have for yourself and, or those people just starting to teach in their first year as well?


Cortnie Freeman (19:28):
Yeah. Oh my gosh. I remember my first year I was so nervous and I was just like, oh my God. And everyone’s like, you look like a high school kid. I’m like, okay. I know , you know what I would recommend for any teacher kind of starting out. The first thing to do is just kind of write yourself a little note just of why you got into teaching. Like I, on, I, I have to reflect teaching is hard. There are moments where it’s just like, I don’t know if I can do this anymore with all the others, aside from the student stuff, it’s just, it’s a lot. And it’s, I always go back to those first years of how excited I was to get like your first paycheck, like, oh my God. Right. And just like trying, getting to know your students and you’re excited and you say your classroom went perfectly and I can see as kind of the years go on, you just stop paying attention to those little details.


Cortnie Freeman (20:18):
And it’s those little details that make you get excited. Right. So I, I always kind of, whenever new teachers kind of, you know, frantically like, oh my gosh, this and that. And I’m like, it’s all about the kids. As long as your students are having a good time in class, just take a breath. But I, I always say like, write yourself a note right now of how excited you are. We can always tell a new teacher, cuz they’re like so excited and they’re like, you’re like, okay, write yourself a letter and remind yourself of these points of how you feel right now, how excited you are to, you know, make those lesson plans to make those rubrics that now seem like tedious, ridiculous thing, but remind yourself of how exciting that is and how good it feels to have your own space in your own room.


Cortnie Freeman (21:01):
And you’re in charge of these four, you know, these 24 humans for the, you know, the semester and stuff like that. But, and it’s also surrounding yourself with the right people. Mm-Hmm, that kind of share the similar interests in you that have the same passion as you do. I’m lucky, like in the arts, almost every teacher is pretty passionate about what they teach almost probably or too passionate sometimes. Like we take it to another level of serious fashion. But it, it is, it’s just finding those teachers where you can constantly feed off of and, and, and bounce ideas off of like, you know, Mr. Lab. And I like, we are always messaging each other about ideas we have or things that aren’t going so well. And how can I sad or what did you do for this unit? Cause it’s not really working for me and those moments, you need to find it yourself. Cause we’re not given it a lot of time. You know, we, we teach at the same time we leave at the same times. So you have to work at it. You have to find those people and you have to have those people to bounce ideas back because it always makes your learning styles and your engagements so much more stronger when you have another teacher kind of looking at what you’re doing and bouncing off ideas from. So those would be kind of my two cents to the new teacher.


Sam Demma (22:22):
That’s awesome. And if there is a teacher listening who wants to get in touch with you, maybe reach out by on some ideas around, ask some questions, you know, share some good energy, how could they reach out and do so?


Cortnie Freeman (22:35):
Yeah, I would love that I, as a life learner, like I love giving my stuff and I also like hearing new ideas. So my, probably my email is cortnie.freeman@dcdsb.ca.


Sam Demma (22:52):
All right. Perfect. Sounds good, Cortnie. Thanks so much for coming on the podcast. It was a pleasure chat.


Cortnie Freeman (22:57):
With you. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, it was great. You’re doing amazing things. So stick with it. It’s I don’t know. I’ve heard so many teachers just say such great things about you and seeing you at all saying like just blown us away. Thank you. And for giving us also this forum to talk about teaching because it’s, it’s great.


Sam Demma (23:17):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Cortnie Freeman

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Sarah Daintrey – Teacher, Activities Advisor, Bear Wrestler and Service Education Advocate

Sarah Daintrey – Teacher, Activities Advisor, Bear Wrestler and Service Education Advocate
About Sarah Daintrey

Sarah Daintrey (@sdaintrey) has been teaching and doing student activities for 15 years at Clayton Heights Secondary in Surrey, British Columbia.

She is extremely passionate about service education whether that be inside the classroom or in extracurriculars. The time to do something good is always now. Starting Project Equal, her students have felt empowered by giving back and serving others, leaving a positive impact on the local and global community.

Connect with Sarah: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Clayton Heights Secondary

Project Equal

Cloverdale Community Kitchen

Surrey Urban Mission

United Way British Columbia

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. I’m your show host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Before we get into today’s awesome interview with another amazing educator, I have something of value that I wanna share. If you’ve ever struggled with teaching your students virtually, if you’ve ever struggled with getting them to turn their cameras on, I have have assembled all the information that I’ve learned and developed over the past six months of presenting to students virtually I’ve spoken at over 50 events since COVID hit back in March and I’ve taken my best tips, my gear list, and any special ninja tricks and assembled it all into a free five video mini course can go and get access to it right now www.highperformingeducator.com. And if you do pick it up, you will also get added to a private group of educators who tune into this show. People who have been interviewed on this show and you’ll have access to opportunities to network and meet like-minded individuals during this tough time.


Sam Demma (00:59):
So if that sounds like it might be helpful, go to www.highperformingeducator.com, grab the free course and get involved in the high performing educators. Network enough for me and onto the show. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam demo. I am super excited to you. Today’s guest. Her name is Sarah, and she has been teaching and doing student activities for 15 years at Clayton Heights Secondary school in Surrey, BC. And I’m sure you’ll realize this very quickly, but she is extremely passionate about service, education, service leadership, whether that be inside the classroom or an extracurricular activities. And she wholeheartedly believes that time to do something good is always right now. You’ll be super surprised when you hear about the interesting and awesome club that she started, I believe 15 or 14 years ago at her school that is now making a huge impact on her community and the world at large. I can’t wait to see you on the other side of this interview. Enjoy this take notes and here’s Sarah Daintrey. Sarah, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator Podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show, another ambassador for serving leadership and service work. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about why your, about the work you do in education today.


Sarah Daintrey (02:27):
Hi, I’m Sarah. So thank you very much for having me. I’m really excited to be here. So I am very, very passionate about service education and connecting service to curriculum and in extracurriculars as well as as in school. So I’m really, really passionate about that kind of stuff. I really want to create kids that graduate from high school that I’m not afraid to live next door to. I want them to be good neighbors that will help their neighbors in with their groceries. If they need to or go shovel their driveway. If it snows, I want them to be not afraid to be a part of a community. And I feel like service education is the pathway to that.


Sam Demma (03:08):
What inspired you to teach students about service work? I’m sure there was a reason why you got so involved with service work and now you preach it to all the students you teach. I’m curious about the, the story behind that.


Sarah Daintrey (03:21):
Okay, well that, one’s a big one, Sam, so when I was first actually, okay, so rewind to be being a child. My dad was really very diligent about making us good people. And so he, as weird as the sounds, he took Christmas from us when I was 12, he said, we will not have Christmases in this house anymore. We will donate all of the money we would’ve spent on you, kids to your charity and you get to pick this here, Sarah. Okay. and so it’s a, it was a, one of those things. It was just a life lesson like that. We, we surround ourself with all this stuff, but this stuff doesn’t really make, make us happy and giving to others can really make us happy. And so like my charity this year, I think that year, I think when I was 12, I gave a TV to a homeless shelter and I was like super jazzed about it.


Sarah Daintrey (04:09):
I think the next year my brother gave a couch to a family center. Like it was like, it was some cool stuff. So I can really thank my parents really for getting me into this. But if you really wanna go why I got into the deep, deep dive of the surface education. So when I was first started teaching, I was 22. So just a little bit older than you when you I was a young cat and I got diagnosed with multiple sclerosis about maybe four months after starting teaching. So I had double vision. And so I, it just took me into this crazy journey of like, what am I doing with my life? And I really poured myself deeper into service education at that point. Also like at a weird vote a year later, exactly. After I got diagnosed, my husband who was not my husband at the time was my live-in boyfriend got diagnosed with a muscle disease.


Sarah Daintrey (05:07):
And he has really rare form muscular dystrophy. He spent eight months in the hospital and I really, at that point I was teaching and I didn’t tell anybody what was really going on. I was I was teaching at my school that I’m at now and, and I was teaching from eight till three. And then I was at the hospital from three 30, till nine 30, every single day. But that was when the service club that I run at my school started, it was called Project Equal and it still is called that. And I really poured myself into that because if you got something that is bothering you, how helping others is a pathway out of that. And so I really grinded and, and put that club in. I put a lot of energy in my time into that club while I was at school. And it’s become a fairly successful thing after that. So it was one of those things. It was a dark time, but Project Equal was really, really one of those things that kind of got me through it.


Sam Demma (06:06):
People often think that they will give once they have, or they will be of service once they’re successful and have time, I think it’s and the reverse and you give, and the more you give the better you personally feel and the better others feel. Can you dispel that myth? And what are your thoughts around that idea that you have to wait till you graduate or wait till you have enough money or wait till you have more time?


Sarah Daintrey (06:33):
No. Now is always the time now is always like grasp the moment while you have it and help those while you can, because you never know what’s coming around the corner they’re pro tomorrow is promised to no one. So help somebody today.


Sam Demma (06:47):
I love that right now. What do you think are the benefits personally and selflessly for the people around you of getting involved in service work?


Sarah Daintrey (06:56):
Oh, I, I mean, there’s so many benefits I’ve seen. Okay. Like from like the kids who have been involved in my, in the program, in the service program that I run at school, I got one who’s working for the UN United Nations right now. And, and she’s in Kenya helping. Yeah, I know. And I’m not taking credit for that, but like who, that would nice to have like a little piece of that, right?


Sam Demma (07:21):
Spark the fire, you sparked the light.


Sarah Daintrey (07:24):
I got, I got a, the girl who started Project Equal, she’s running the Fraser Health Emergency Management right now. Wow. So she’s running COVID in our profits, its yeah, like there there’s like some functional skills that is learned and from not only like planning meetings and executing events, but it’s also like from like reaching out and giving to others, it’s unbelievable to see what, what the kids have been able to do. It’s it’s great. I got a lawyer, an environmental lawyer who came through our program who, when I coached him in cross country, he would never come back from a run without like a piece of garbage. And I’m like, dude, you could probably run a little faster. He’s like, yeah, but this garbage I’m like right. And so good.


Sam Demma (08:07):
That’s awesome. I love that. And, and you’re speaking to the benefits a student would get and what’s awesome is that service is a win-win win scenario. I like to say this student or the person doing it benefits, the whole world is a whole benefits and the person you’re doing it for also benefits and the more we can engage in win-win win activities, especially during a time like COVID where everyone’s a little bit upset or down the better everyone humanity as a whole will feel. Tell me more about Project Equal. So what is it, what does it look like? Like what do you do with these students? When do you meet, how do you meet? Tell me more, tell me all about it.


Sarah Daintrey (08:46):
Typically I, we meet on Mondays at lunch at school and it is our biggest club at school. So I like to okay. Say that I’m also a fun squelcher and sometimes in my nature. So I, if a kid comes to me and they say, oh, I wanna start a senior citizens club or I wanna start a dog club where we only help dogs. And I’m like, well, Project Equal helps all of those things, bring your idea to project equal and then we’re gonna, we’re gonna help you out there. And the, and the collective group comes together for project equal and we help all of these different causes instead of having 25 different clubs that are all reaching for the same cookie Sam. Like, do you get what I mean? Like if everyone’s hand is reaching into the jar for a cookie, ain’t nobody gonna get cookie.


Sarah Daintrey (09:35):
I would rather ask one at a time, reach in and then you can have your cookie this month and we’re gonna support you. So I think that that is the magic of Project Equal. Is that the collective good? And that it is not about who’s the president of this club. I don’t know if you, you probably have experienced this in your, or kind of foray into student leadership is that there are resume checkbox, people who say like I started my own club. Well, what did you do within that club? Equals is like an all encompassing service thing that if, if you wanna get involved in service, you can just come and join us and present your idea. So I don’t, I, I feel like it’s a, it’s more about the collective good.


Sam Demma (10:25):
I think it’s awesome because I also found that in school. Yeah, you’re right. Sometimes you start a club just for the sake of writing it on your resume for university applications or for a future job. I never got involved in anything at school, which I highly regret due to my own soccer passions. But if I could go back starting something like project equal at my school, sounds like a phenomenal idea. If an educator is listening and thinks, this is such a great idea, we don’t have a service club at our school. I would love to amalgamate all these clubs that are working towards awesome goals. What advice would you give them to get started with something like this?


Sarah Daintrey (11:02):
Sit down with the stakeholders and start to talk about bringing people together. Now, when I’ve, I’ve talked to many schools about this, Sam I’ve gone and brought this idea to the schools because sometimes as an educator, you feel like it’s yours. Hmm. Right. That’s my club. I run that. It’s mine project. Equals is not mine. Project Equal is the students club. And it’s for people who really wanna make a difference. So I don’t really feel like I own it even though it’s, it’s been a part of my life for 14 years now. Right. So, but it’s, it’s not, I don’t own it. It’s more of it, so like sometimes you get like a teacher and they feel like they, they, this is my club and these are my kids and this is what we do together. It’s like, well, that’s great and everything, but gotta put your ego aside and let’s talk about what is the collective good. Now sometimes it’s worked at schools like I’ve had a few people start a collective service club and it is working no like no problem, but sometimes egos get in the way and people want to have their hope for homeless or the pause for the cause. Or you, you, you know, you could name it any, anything, or BR or cancer awareness or like relay for life club, all of those kinds of things. But wouldn’t it be great if we could all come together and support each other?


Sam Demma (12:27):
Tell me how many students are involved is, is like you, you said it’s the biggest club in school and now you’ve peaked my care. How big is big?


Sarah Daintrey (12:35):
Well right now it’s hard. Okay. We can’t meet because of cohorts, we can’t get together, but on a regular, like if we’re in regular school, there’s between 150 to 200 kids that come and show up and do this stuff. Wow. And it’s not a pressure thing, Sam, like you come to equal one week and you’re like, yeah, this is awesome. Well, I had a lunch date next week. Okay. Well then you get, then you’re outta here. And we don’t have a president of project equal. Okay. We run through executive council. So if you wanna run our club, you come before school to my classroom on Mondays and we meet and we plan out the meetings together. What’s it gonna look like? What do we want to accomplish? And if you want a cause supported, you bring it to executive council and they talk about it together. Hmm. And they run the meetings together. It’s fantastic. I mean, sometimes this is a train wreck, but as you’re watching all students do what they do. But it mostly is very, very good.


Sam Demma (13:34):
No, that’s awesome. You, you reminded me like what we do with PickWaste. We don’t have a non-negotiable schedule and all students have to come. We have an email list to volunteers. They all get an email on Thursday saying, Hey, this is where we’re going on. Saturday. Feel free to come. If not, we’ll still part friends, you know? And sometimes someone shows up and then they don’t show up for another formal. We don’t bug them. It’s just drop in. If you’d like to give back today, you, you have the opportunity to do so. And I think that model is so it’s so great because there’s no pressure. And it it’s, there’s no one pushing you to do it. You just, you show up because you want to get involved. Which is awesome. How do you, how do you inspire a student to build that inner drive? To want to give back so much so that no one needs to push them, but they’re jumping at the opportunity to do so.


Sarah Daintrey (14:25):
So I mean, I, I think my, okay, okay. This is weird because I am like extremely shy and a totally humble person. But I think the fact that I’m willing to dive in. Mm I’m, I’m going to walk with them. I’m going to hand out the care packages with them. I’m going to do the things with them. I’m gonna be of like the I’m gonna dig the hole with them. I’m gonna be in the garden, planting the plants with them. I think that that is speaks to the, the fact that kids wanna get involved. Like one of my I’m at home this year, Sam. So because I have Ms. I don’t have an immune system. So I’m at home this year. I’m teaching kids online. I’m actually teaching socials and English right now, which is thrilling and great.


Sarah Daintrey (15:12):
Shout out to my socials and English kids. So I, but I’m at home this year. So it’s been a big lesson for me. I’m not at the school and it’s been very difficult, but my teaching partner in crime, she gave me a little piece of paper that I keep at my desk. And it says, what you lack in talent can be made up with this and giving a hundred percent all of the time. Mm. And I look at it every single day because it reminds me that I’m willing to grind and really get in there with kids. I just gotta wait for my opportunity to be able to do so.


Sam Demma (15:46):
I love that when I was in high school and I had my knee injuries, I was lucky enough to have a educator just like you, who helped me redefine what my self worth was attached to. I thought growing up that to be worth something, I had to be an incredible athlete because everyone around me praised me when I played good soccer. And when I lost the ability to play sports, I felt like I was absolutely worthless. And I didn’t know what I wanted to do with my life. And the reality is is that every student, whether they’re facing a soccer injury or not all attach their self worth to something, and it was Mike loud who stopped me and he said something very similar to what’s on that paper. He said, your self worth is attached to two things. Two decisions that you can make every day, the first being to show up and give a hundred percent of your effort so that when the day’s over and you look in the mirror, you can say, I’m proud of myself, despite the result, whatever happened happened.


Sam Demma (16:35):
But I gave a hundred percent of my effort. And the second decision was to be of service to others. And he actually used to reference Muhammad Ali Muhammad Ali had a quote and he used to say you know, your rent here on earth, the rent that you pay, you pay it by service to others. And Mike loves that quote. And I love that quote. And I think it’s just so important for students to remember that they’re not their skills, talents, and abilities. They are their effort and their decision to give back to others. And I think that’s such an empowering message on the topic of giving back. What are some of the projects over the past 14 years that have been started within and project equal?


Sarah Daintrey (17:15):
Well, there’s some, some cool stuff. I mean, we did start out with like the typical raise money for free the children and buy schools in international communities. And we’ve been on trips with them as well. We kind of have distanced ourselves a little bit from that since the waters got a little bit muddy a couple years ago. So there, as with all things, Sam, things are both good and bad and you gotta take the good and then minimize the bad. So yeah, I, but this year alone I’m, I’m at home, but I’m still meddling as much as I possibly can. Nice. So we’re doing an art project with my senior art teacher. She’s created a 36 pieces of art that are going to the Brookside Lodge, which is our local seniors home that we usually have for Christmas dinner at our school.


Sarah Daintrey (18:09):
They come and we serve them a Turkey meal at our school. But they can’t come obviously because of COVID and we dropped off 36 pieces of art for them to have an art installation with pictures of the kids who created the art and why they created the art on the back to build a connection between those two people. That was a cool one that we were doing nice. What’s one of the, I really, I mean, we serve at local shelters quite often. So the Surrey Urban Mission or the Clovadoke Community Kitchen, we’re there three to four times a year, obviously not right now, but we’re itching to get back there. I’m trying to think of some cool things. There’s just been so many, I mean, and then the garbage cleanup we do invasive plant species removal. Those kinds- I got a environmental as mark likes to refer to me as a Birkenstock green, green thumb person, but that’s fine.


Sarah Daintrey (19:04):
I’m, I’ll take that as a compliment. yeah, so I, I, we do lots of environmental stuff. And, and cleanups, we ran beach cleanups as well. I took my biology, 11 kids on a field trip to go paddle boarding, but then the first part of the morning was all beach cleanup. Nice. So they had to clean up the intertitles zone, which is what you learn about in biology 11. Yeah. I mean, it’s really just integrated into my life. If I’m teaching you a course, you do service. If I am working with you in a club, you do, you do service . If you’re in my leadership class, you do service . So I don’t like the word volunteer hours anymore. Yeah. Sam, I don’t like it. I don’t know why I have an avert the word, but I prefer service.


Sam Demma (19:53):
Yeah, no, I’m I’m with you. I feel like volunteering is something that you’re forced to do. I think service is something you choose to do. Like, I think that’s, that might be the differentiation between the two, because when I hear the word volunteer, I, as a student associated with my principal, handing me a blue book and you need this to graduate, whereas it should be, this is something you should be doing for the rest of your life. Here’s a perfect time to start. So yeah, I think I agree with you on that one. And on that note, what do you think is the difference between the word leader and the word servant leader, if you had to define the two?


Sarah Daintrey (20:31):
Well, okay. I also run student council at my school, which is a big part of our school culture. Or I’m one of the teacher sponsors anyways. I don’t think I run it, the kids run it. But those leaders are more for getting people involved and like, and showing them the way to get involved at our school. Whereas servant leaders are more about I guess what I said before is diving in with people and working alongside people to create a, a better world and a change in their community. I think that that’s more a, what servant leadership is.


Sam Demma (21:09):
Love that. And I know that your school has partnered with large non non-national organizations. And you guys have brought in big partners. Has that been a difficult process or would you say it was surprisingly easy? I’m curious to know.


Sarah Daintrey (21:22):
Okay. So this was like, right. Top more sort of, was it preparation me talk opportunity. That’s like, OK. Yeah, that’s it. So these people came to our school because somebody was on a Facebook group ragging on how terrible our teens are in our area. So the United Way came to our school. And my principal said, well, I don’t, you should talk to our leadership teacher. You should talk to she’s one of our advisors. So they came and they sat and talked to me and she’s like, have you seen this Facebook group? I’m like, no. And she’s like, well, do you know what they’re saying? I’m like, no, she’s like, you wanna know? No, I don’t. And then I blurted out what we had just done this year. I’m like, we just had seniors. He, we had 80 seniors here. We served them a Turkey dinner.


Sarah Daintrey (22:11):
Did you guys know about that? No. I’m like, well, I like don’t judge our school about what some, sorry. Texting Susan or whatever her or him texting Tim does behind a computer screen. Yep. Okay. Not judge our school on that. And I have a really hard time shouting from the rooftops, all of the amazing things that our school does, because I don’t feel like that should be the reward. The reward should be the act itself. Mm-Hmm . So I have a really hard time with the celebration walls and the Instagram posts of all of the amazing things we do. I have a difficult time with that because it is not about that for me, it’s about the act itself. And so I, I, I do I’m right now. I’m doing my level two certification for CSLA and that’s the part I’m really struggling with is I’m know that we need to do that in our school. That’s something we need to do better is celebrate the things that we’re doing. But I, I, I, so I don’t know why it feels like I’m like getting the act gets tainted by the it’s not bragging, it’s celebrating, but it, I don’t I’m I struggle with that part of things.


Sam Demma (23:30):
There’s a, a cool distinction. There’s a content creator named Gary Vee and he’s a marketer and he’s been creating videos like every other day, every day for the past, like four years, he has a huge marketing company. And he said something that really resonated with me that might help shift your perspective a little bit. He says, don’t create content, promoting yourself, just document the journey. And that for me was a cool distinction, cuz you don’t have to stand and say, look how great I am. You could just pick up a camera and be like, here’s what we’re doing today. And just post a short little video. But on that note you’re not alone. I feel the same way that you do so much so that I took a year off social media. I’m about six months in I used to post secondary school I went to on the stage saying, rah, rah, I’m speaking at a school.


Sam Demma (24:14):
And then I turned 21 and I sat down with myself and had an honest reflection and realized this isn’t helping anybody. I feel like an idiot doing this all the time. I’m probably gonna stop. And so I just stopped cold Turkey. And I haven’t posted on Instagram since. And I think for me, it’s helping dismantle like a little bit of my own personal ego and I’m still a young guy. And I think it’s important that we all ask ourselves. What’s the real reason behind why we’re posting something. And if the, if the reason is genuine and authentic and then I think it’s okay, but you have to be really, you have to be really clear and careful on what you put out and the reason behind why you put it out. So all that to say you’re not alone. I think, I think I, I kind of feel the same way sometimes too. And it feels weird when you do post it. So I will wait until the day comes, when someone figures out how to promote events and things that are happening without sounding selfish, self centered I’m with you on that.


Sarah Daintrey (25:08):
My bullying day today was I was two teachers from last year doing something goofy in pink. And I said, the pink is the first step, but the intentional kindness every single day is the hard work. Yeah. Let’s get there. Yeah. I agree. Actually, I think this is getting lost. Like this pink shirt is getting lost in the shuffle and the intentional kindness is where we need to get back to. Yeah. Yeah. Like it’s not about the dress up. It’s about the intentional kindness. Yeah. And not the confetti kindness, not the like sprinkles kindness. It it’s the deep, intentional kindness. Like my classes today, there’s a young girl in mission. I got this wonderful idea for my teaching partner at school. There’s a young girl in mission who was beaten up and bullied in January for being a transgender youth. Wow. And she was just like fully attacked. My kids today are writing her letters. Wow. Of encouragement. Nice. Because that’s deep, intentional kindness. I, I had them watch or read an article on her and we’re gonna reach out to her because I think it’s that that’s deep and intentional on their part and, and something that can make them feel powerful and good.


Sam Demma (26:25):
Mm-Hmm no, I agree so much. Like I, I couldn’t agree more. And I think it’s also important to know that sometimes it is the harder decision. Sometimes we convince ourselves that it’s easier to pass someone on the street and not do anything about it or to see a post like that and just keep scrolling on your feed. But you know, when you do take those actions, those deep, intentional acts of kindness, it has a positive impact on everyone else. That’s involved in the situation and you also feel great. Like, you know, whether you post about it or not, you selfishly feel good. That’s a cool thing about philanthropy is that everyone wins. You feel good? Other people feel good, so why not get involved? I think it’s so cool.


Sarah Daintrey (27:05):
That, yeah. I, people always say like, oh, there’s no unselfish act. That’s true. because if you do something good for somebody else, you intent, you feel good. And it is the only drug I want to be addicted to. Yeah. It is the only survey other people is the only drug I wanna be addicted to. And once you, I, I give people a taste of it. Like for example, in my math 10 class I usually teach math 10. Aw. Which is for kids who hate school or suck at math or even worse are the combination of both. And they have been told, and they’ve been told they’re not good at school and they can’t do it. I, you work with the United way and I bring them in and we do a project where we feed as many people as we can, for $1,500, they gotta do budgeting.


Sarah Daintrey (27:57):
They gotta do skill. Like they have some hard skills they gotta do with this. And then we go and we feed people on the downtown east side with help from save on meets. It’s a company on the downtown east side of Vancouver. Okay. These are kids who don’t feel like they can do anything. I’ve had four or five kids turn around from that class. And then they join leadership the next year. Or they come out to project equal and they come and they do stuff. Or I have kids who wanna be my peer tutor the next year. So they come on that field trip and feel good about themselves. So it’s not just for the leaders, it’s for everybody.


Sam Demma (28:32):
Mm. So true. And it’s the little things that matter most, the little acts of kindness. Right. I, I, I watched a movie the other day with Denzel Washington called the little things and he’s at a, he’s a hop and an investigator, and he’s trying to bust this criminal on some thing that he did. And, and multiple times in the film he stops and he looks at the camera and he says, it’s the little things that will get him caught. But I also think it’s the little things that make the biggest difference. Like writing someone, a handwritten note or smiling in the hallway or buying them a coffee. I also think that sometimes students get overwhelmed or teachers get overwhelmed with starting a club like this because they think that they have to go out and, and become the next Martin Luther king and change the world. And I think it’s 11 kids. Yeah. And I think it’s totally false. And I was gonna ask you, like, you know, what are some good benchmarks to think about in terms of project sizes and starting thing like this, for someone who’s listening to this whole conversation and is really interested in getting involved.


Sarah Daintrey (29:30):
OK. So I’m extremely competitive. OK. OK. mostly with myself. OK. Mostly I’m like kinda one up myself all of the time. Yeah. So I had a principal at the time who shall remain nameless because he is mostly good dad, but some people have some bad parts to them. He said, Margie equal is a stupid idea. It will never work and whatever else. Right. And he said, but go ahead. If you want to, and you can just do it with the grade 11th. So I had seven grade elevenths that first started out. And then, and by the end of the year, I think we grew to 11 kids. We bought our first school in Sierra Leon, because that was what the one of the kids wanted to do. And we served at the Sur remission. And we did some environmental projects where we like went and cleaned up garbage, all this kind of stuff.


Sarah Daintrey (30:14):
It was great year. I went and slapped the check on his desk personally. Yes, let’s go for, I love it. And then he went to the district and bragged about it, and then we became bigger after that, which was great. I guess I can thank him for speaking my praises, I guess. But I do think that small, intentional acts and small steps works. I mean, where equal even came from the word project equal young lady, it did some math, she had 236 people in her grade and she did some math if somebody gave up just $5 a month. So like going to Tim, Horton’s go to Starbucks even probably less than going to Starbucks. Now. if they gave up $5 a month, she could buy a school in a, in a third world country to that was her idea. And I said, that’s brilliant, but I want to help locally too, as much as we do globally. So as much as we do international, and then she, she agreed with me and literally we bought our first school within that year. And we helped we handed out meals at the Sur for a mission. We did care packages. Like there was so much we did, and that was just with her year. Wow. And then we expanded after that. It was incredible.


Sam Demma (31:27):
So the sky’s the limit and be creative.


Sarah Daintrey (31:28):
Basically truly is. And smart. Start small for goodness sake. Do not try to eat all the whole cake. Just take one bite.


Sam Demma (31:36):
Love it. That sounds great. Well, Sarah, thank you so much for sharing your passion about service work and servant leadership and project equal. I appreciate it. And if someone is listening right now, thinking this is an inspiring conversation and they’d love to chat with you further, what would be the best way for another educator to reach out and, and have a conversation?


Sarah Daintrey (31:55):
Oh, I’m super great at email. So if you wanna email me at daintrey_s@surreyschools.ca. You can email me. That would be super great. The rest of my forms of communication are very subpar. So email works. Haha!


Sam Demma (32:13):
That is perfect. Well, thank you so much for doing this. Again, I appreciate your time. Keep up the awesome work, whether or not you post about it will be secretly trying to figure out what you continue to do behind the seats. Thank you so much.


Sarah Daintrey (32:31):
I want you to come to my school. Okay. When this is over, I feel like you should come to my school. I, when I can go back there, we’ll meet. We’ll meet there. How does that sound?


Sam Demma (32:41):
Sounds ike a plan. I’ll get on a plane and I promise and we’ll make it happen.


Sarah Daintrey (32:44):
Yeah. You sound like you fit with my vibe. I like it.


Sam Demma (32:49):
No, I appreciate it, Sarah. Thank you again so much. And let’s stay in touch.


Sarah Daintrey (32:53):
All right. Sounds good. Thanks Sam.


Sam Demma (32:55):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest and amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sarah Daintrey

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Matteo Cianfrone – OCT, Physical Education Teacher and Soccer Coach

Matteo Cianfrone – OCT, Physical Education Teacher & Soccer Coach
About Matteo Cianfrone

Matteo Cianfrone is a second-year Health and Physical Education teacher at Bayview Glen. Being a Health and Physical Education teacher, as well as a high-performance soccer coach, Matteo explores the similarities and differences in both professions.

Along with sharing his motivations and journey through education, Matteo also shares a couple of fun and basic activities he uses to increase online engagement during these trying times.

Connect with Matteo: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Bayview Glen Independent School

St. Michael’s College School

Ryerson University

Ontario Institute for Studies in Education

Tabata Workouts for Students

Active Scavenger Hunts for Students – Be Creative!

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. I’m your show host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Before we get into today’s awesome interview with another amazing educator, I have something of value that I wanna share. If you’ve ever struggled with teaching your students virtually, if you’ve ever struggled with getting them to turn their cameras on, I have have assembled all the information that I’ve learned and developed over the past six months of presenting to students virtually I’ve spoken at over 50 events since COVID hit back in March and I’ve taken my best tips, my gear list, and any special ninja tricks and assembled it all into a free five video mini course, you can go and get access to it right now www.highperformingeducator.com. And if you do pick it up, you will also get added to a private group of educators who tune into this show. People who have been interviewed on this show and you’ll have access to opportunities to network and meet like-minded individuals during this tough time.


Sam Demma (00:59):
So if that sounds like it might be helpful, go to www.highperformingeducator.com, grab the free course and get involved in the high performing educators. Network enough for me and onto the show. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator. Today’s special guest is Matteo Cianfrone. Mateo is a second year health and physical education teacher at Bayview Glen Independent School. I had the pleasure of speaking to the school and we connected shortly thereafter being a health and physical education teacher, as well as a high performance soccer coach. Mateo explores the similarities and differences in both professions, especially in today’s interview, along with sharing his motivations and journey through our education. Mateo also shares a couple of fun and basic activities he uses to increase online engagement during these trying times. I hope you enjoy today’s episode and I will see you on the other side. Mateo, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and maybe how you got into the work you’re doing in education today.


Matteo Cianfrone (02:08):
Thank you so much for having me. Yeah. So my name is Matteo Cianfrone. I’m currently teaching at Bayview Glen in the prep school there. So how did I get started? I mean I mean, there’s always those individuals that kind of inspire you. I, and that’s kind of how it all started. You always have either a coach either a teacher or just a colleague. It could be a pastor, it could be a priest, it could be absolutely anybody that influences you and you kind of look back on these people and you’re like, wow, what they’re doing is really, really awesome. And not only does it influence you, but it also kind of guides you towards maybe something that you want to do in the future. So I think that that’s kind of work all started and that’s where self subconsciously, like I kind of really thought what they were doing was awesome. And I just wanted to kind of go through that myself.


Sam Demma (02:54):
Tell me more like who were those people? I know there is some specific names or?


Matteo Cianfrone (02:59):
Specific names, specific names. So, so I mean, I’ve had I’ve had a couple coaches coaches like Dave Bottabo coaches like Soupa other ones. I have had some great teachers. I went to St. Mike’s, so I’ve had some fantastic teachers like like Niko Romano. I had an English teacher, Stokes, that the way that he talked and the way that he just would be able to relate with individuals, it was unbelievable. And something that I always kind of geared towards and always tried to move towards. Yeah. So if I were to say some names off the top of my head, those are definitely ones that stick out.


Sam Demma (03:40):
You started kind of answering my, my follow up question, what was gonna be like, what did they do that made them such an impactful individual in your life, you know, from the coaching perspective and the, the classroom perspective?


Matteo Cianfrone (03:51):
Yeah, so honestly, I think one thing that I’ve always tried strived to do in that each of them did in their own a way they relatability. I think that to almost sell someone a message, you have to be able to relate to them. You have to be able to kind of meet them on their level and just, and just maybe converse with them in the way that they’re gonna understand. And the way that, you know, they’ll be able to just get at what you’re saying and buy into what you’re saying as well. There’s that saying? That goes, you know, some, some students are never gonna remember what you, what you taught them, but they’ll always remember how you make them feel. So that’s something that I’ve always kind of gravitated towards and always held onto and always tried to put forth every single day.


Sam Demma (04:38):
Nah, I love that. And then what about on the soccer field? Because I know you have a whole idea about coaching and it’s that, you know, coaching is like teaching, but with shorts on and cleats shorts on. Yeah. yeah. How has that had an impact on how you teach or on your idea of mentorship in teaching?


Matteo Cianfrone (04:54):
Okay. Well, yeah, I mean the great thing about, yeah, like I, yeah, it’s, it’s teaching with shorts on it’s inspiring others. It’s it’s, you know, kind of scaffolding you’re learning and it’s just a whole, they go hand in hand really. But the one thing that I’ve really had to like hold onto is that before they are like, at least with my, my, my players or they are athletes before they’re anything, they are individuals much like my students before they are, you know, before they’re people that are trying to get grades before, they’re the ones that are writing the test they’re individuals. So making sure that you’re always tending towards what they, you know, what they need in their life and stuff like that. That’s, that’s something that always relate to and then when it can comes to kind of, but there are like dissimilarities as well, right?


Matteo Cianfrone (05:45):
Like with, with coaching, I have to gear my, you know, what, let’s start actually with the teaching side of it, with teaching being a phys. ed. teacher, I’m just happy to sometimes just get them moving. I’ll get everyone from the world class athlete to the kid who just simply just does not want to do anything. Mm. So I have to, I have to kind of put my teaching cap on, cuz I’ll have my coaching and my teaching cap. And then my teaching cap will kind of be geared more towards how are they, are they enjoying them to else? Are they moving? And that’s kind of like the extent of am I, am I teaching them properly? Because if I try to, with my soccer team, it’s a little bit more competitive. Kids are trying to get scholarships, trying to kids are trying to get professional looks and stuff like that.


Matteo Cianfrone (06:32):
So I kind of can’t take the same approach as, as teaching, because if I start trying to make everything execution based and performance based in my classroom, I’m gonna lose all of my kids. Whereas if I take the almost more nurturing standpoint with my players, they might not be pushed enough. So it’s kind of like, again, I’m just using two different hats. I kind of have to put two to different masks on every single touch. I time to touch a pitch to every single time I go into the classroom. Right. So there are similar similarities and there are differences.


Sam Demma (07:09):
Yea, no, I think that was a great explanation. And then through your own journey back when you were going through, you know, high school and university at what did you make the decision that you wanted to be a teacher like mm-hmm where did that all come from?


Matteo Cianfrone (07:24):
So it all kind of started. So I, I went, like I explained earlier, I went to St. Michael’s College School, all boys, Catholic school and Toronto. And that was fantastic, but every single year we would actually have, so in high school you have to do 40 hours of community service. I think everybody remembers those 40 hours. Yeah. But at St Mike’s, we actually had to do 20 hours for our high school tenure. So for grade nine, you would have to do 20 hours for grade 10. You would have to do 20 in 11 and 12. You have to do 20 each as well. So that accumulate to be 80 hours. So we were also very fortunate at same mics to have two weeks of March break which is, you know, I, I was complaining at all. But the, the fantastic thing about that was that the first week you would kind of use to see friends and, and you know, just to catch up and maybe just take a little bit of relaxed time.


Matteo Cianfrone (08:13):
And then that second week was geared more towards, okay, let’s get some homework done. Let’s and I would actually use that for my community that week to kind of get some community service hours and nice. My cousin, Luca , he’s a music teacher. He and I was always kind of like, oh, teaching’s really cool, but never really been in a classroom. So I said, Hey, you know, Luca, do you mind if I come, I’ll help you photocopy, I’ll arrange the instruments. I’ll do whatever you got. You need me to do. Just gimme me some hours. It’ll give me it’ll it’ll two days will get me 16 hours. If I do a third day, I’ll get 24. That’s more than I need. And we can move forward from there. So it kind of started from there in grade nine, I did two days, got my hours and was pretty happy.


Matteo Cianfrone (08:57):
And then this next year after I said, Hey, Luca, do you mind if I do it again? He was like, absolutely. And then, so I just continued to grade 9, 10, 11, 12, and then almost all the way to the grade 12. He, he had me actually teaching a couple of lessons. I had a very, I had a very basic piano background. So I was able to teach a couple things, but I remember there was this one lesson. It had nothing to do with music at all. But it was I was just teaching students about, I don’t know, you’re maybe a little young, but back when I was growing up all those years ago, I’m 28 right now. And we were we, there was like tectonic that was huge and would dance and listen to this music. And then, so I did a little lesson in which I showed them different songs and we were all dancing together.


Matteo Cianfrone (09:42):
And I remember it was just so inspiring and just such a cool feeling being in front of that class and being able to relate to individuals and seeing their smiles and seeing sometimes their inquisitive looks and all this stuff. So that’s kind of what, where it started. And then after that, I kind of knew that I wanted to get into teaching, but not really went through Ryerson. Did English and history as my two teachables went to OISE was fortunate to fortunate enough to do my master teaching there and then just got kind of a lucky break. And here I am at Bayview Glen teaching phys. ed. fulltime.


Sam Demma (10:14):
Ah, it’s a phenomenal story. And when you were doing your masters of teaching, did you have a bunch of awesome teacher mentors? Like, were there a bunch of people in your life who were kind of pushing you down that path and helping you along the way? Absolutely.


Matteo Cianfrone (10:26):
No. Yeah. I had some, I had some really, really great mentors, but honestly I think the people that I was in my class with pushed me the most there was some unbelievable individuals that were in my class and that we would push each other. We would convene, we would talk, we would. And I mean, when you have a, something like your cohort, so you kind of stay with your cohort, your entirety of the it’s unlike any undergrad or anything like that, you stick with that group for the entire two years that you’re there and you just, just get so close with these individuals. Like if I were to name off a couple like Christopher I think in Victoria like there’s just there’s. Oh my gosh. There’s Caleb. There’s John there’s. Oh, I’m going through memory real . But yeah, there just some unbelievable individuals that, again, we were there for one another when with things outside of school, but a also when it came to school we were just so helpful. And so those are some of my favorite individuals that I’ve ever met is just being there. And I’m not sure it’s again, cuz of that relatability, but I also think it’s just, they’re just unbelievable people just in general. Yeah.


Sam Demma (11:32):
No, very cool. And you know, your journey or your jump or transition from finishing the masters into teaching. Yeah. How was that like, what were, what you, what was you, what you were expecting as your first year, did it fulfill expectations based on what you learned about in school? And what lessons did you learn from that experience? Getting the masters in, getting into teaching that you thought, wow, like this really helped me with my teaching?


Matteo Cianfrone (11:58):
Yeah. So I mean, they, they, they always say that you never really know, like everything’s just a lesson until you get into the classroom. So again, there’s a reason why they have those practicums. There’s a reason why they have that in class experience kind of sewed in throughout your entire my masters and what would be a lot of people’s bachelor of education. Because going from classroom to like, everything just sounds so beautiful and poetic even when you’re in class, but then once you go you’re oh, this is the nitty gritty. We’re kind of in the trenches right now. So was it a wake up call? Absolutely. My first, I remember my first kind of, not so much, this was still kind of in my masters, but my first practicum was definitely an eye opener a lot of nerves, but then as you do it, it’s just one of those things, you know, like with anything, whether it’s soccer, whether it’s anything you more practice and more how can I say, like more exposure to what you’re doing?


Matteo Cianfrone (12:56):
That, that kind of like just takes over. But I mean, I’ve also, I had a lot of confidence. I mean, I was coaching from when I was, so I was playing on the U 21 team and my club and I was like captain there. And then I was also, I was like, how else can I kind of get back to the club? So I was also coaching at the same time time. So even from 21 all the way to when I got my like first teaching gig, quote unquote, which was like 26, 27 I was coaching for about like six years and I was always in front front and center and I felt very comfortable. So I mean, as much as there was a little bit of a transition and there were those nerves and stuff like that of getting first class I kind of felt like I was at home ready. I felt yeah. At home. Exactly. Like I want to say that, but yeah, no, that’s exactly what it is. Is that you feel at home, you don’t feel uncomfortable, you just kind of feel, feel good in the skin you’re in kind of right.


Sam Demma (13:48):
Yeah. And I mean, you’re 28 now. So you you’ve been teaching for?


Matteo Cianfrone (13:52):
Two years, three years, but yeah, this is my second year at Bayview Glen.


Sam Demma (13:55):
Yeah. Phenomenal. And if you could go back to day one and give yourself advice that you’ve gained over the past two years, what would you tell your 26 year old self?


Matteo Cianfrone (14:06):
My gosh. Be, be a little, be a little kinder to yourself. Because I, I am my, I am my own worst critic and when things don’t work perfectly, I, I can really, like, some people will sit back and feel say, oh, you did a really great job. And I’m like, no, no I didn’t. And again, it’s just, and this year I’ve had to learn it more than ever was the lessons that you run. Aren’t gonna be perfect. A lot of people are teaching like this for the first time. So, I mean, just being just being very, almost compassionate with yourself and not being so critical and just, you know what, this is a learning experience, you know, it didn’t run as well. That’s okay. You know, for the next time, cuz I’m I’m cuz I could already tell you this being my second year, my first year it was, it was okay.


Matteo Cianfrone (14:52):
But this second year now I just feel a lot more comfortable just being, just letting it like one, you almost have like the, the, the rehearsal and now like now it’s just now with and easy. Right. And I’ve had some great people like Lori Hillis, Melanie Day in my, in my, in my group right now that are just helping me along the way. And I always say like, thank God for you individuals, cuz I would be nowhere . But but yeah, that’s kind of just be kinda to yourself, be kinder to yourself for sure. Yeah.


Sam Demma (15:22):
Great advice. And I know like we talked a week after the presentation that I did at Bayview Glen and you were mentioning that we talked a week after the presentation at Bayview, Glen. And you were mentioning I don’t know why I just had the thought now it’s totally escaping me. Yeah. let me, let me think about this.


Matteo Cianfrone (15:42):
So yeah, no, so I, so I emailed you cuz you, you did your presentation man. I was we were joking about how I was talking my with my administrative head and she and I was like this kid, like I’m always critical of guest speakers. I really am. Cause I’ve again, being in soccer and stuff like that. We hop people, come talk to our club and this and the other I’ve been to different schools and I’ve see guest speakers. And sometimes I’m like, oh they’re they’re okay. Like, you know, and then there’s some that just like are really great and you are awesome the way that you’re able to relate with the kids again, relatability. Like I really take a huge ownership of that. And again, I’m not sure if cuz you’re in soccer, I’m in soccer where you said, you know we can relate. But I think that you just had a gray way of interacting with individuals, even though it was just over over Zoom and stuff like that. But you did a great job and I, like I told you earlier, I like to give credit where it’s due and you did a fantastic job and keep going.


Sam Demma (16:40):
I appreciate that. Thanks for filling the gap there.


Matteo Cianfrone (16:44):
Nice plug. It’s a nice plug for you. Yeah.


Sam Demma (16:46):
What I was gonna say was in terms of relatability and teaching online, we had a, we had that conversation and you know, you, we did talk about that. You also mentioned that you’re doing some unique things to engage your kids virtually on Zoom that I thought were really cool and interesting. Yeah. Some activities at which I think would be worth sharing with other educators. So what are some of the things you’ve tried in terms of engaging your students on over Zoom or Google meets or whatever software another here listening might be using and what was the learning from doing that stuff?


Matteo Cianfrone (17:17):
Okay. So yeah, online was online learning and phys. ed. like, it’s just two things that you never think you would say in one sentence. And it’s kind of like a weird little paradox. I always go, whenever people ask me, how do you do phys. ed. online and you just do your best. So like I kind of started off with just doing workouts in front of the camera, right. Where I would do them. They, but then I couldn’t see what they were doing and all this stuff. So doing the workouts and them and just watching them do the workouts was great. But you also want to, like you said, kind of increase engagement and make it fun for them. Like I like you, like we’ve talked about earlier. It’s not about really getting the best performing. It’s just like getting them moving and getting them out there and getting them doing stuff.


Matteo Cianfrone (17:59):
So little things that I would do is like fun day Fridays in which I would introduce a game of who wants to be a Phatillionaire and who wants to be a Phatilionaire is basically multiple choice. If you think, if who wants to be a millionaire, it’s multiple choice questions and based on the answer, so if you answer oh, what is Sam’s last name? It’s Demma, Joe, Smith and whatever. Right? And then if you get the right answer, then you do, or if you get a, if you chose a, then you do workout one. If you chose B, then you do workout two, three, and four. And it was just a little PowerPoint that I made. And I, in the background, I have the, the jeopardy music going on and it’s yeah, it’s a whole fun thing. And I mean, again, it’s just trying to increase engagement.


Matteo Cianfrone (18:43):
Then there’s another thing that again, Lori Hillis gave me a fantastic kind of template of a scavenger hunt, which you’re just going, their kids are going around the house and they’re trying to find different items and then they would do different workouts with that item. So for example, it’s go into your pantry and grab a jar of tomatoes and then do five reps with that jar of tomatoes. Now go to your wall go to a, a wall that is two feet. I don’t know. So like something crazy. And then you can do a wall sit on that wall. And again, it doesn’t have to be anything too strenuous. It doesn’t have to be anything too too intense, but again, just getting them, just walking around their house is, is much better than them just maybe watch something or or anything like that.


Matteo Cianfrone (19:29):
We’ve had to workouts. So we’ll do tabata workouts often and then we’ll also have them make their own tabata workouts and send it to the class and then everybody will do their workout that they just did. And it’s really, really, so again, we’ve kind of jumped outside of comfort zone. So I mean, COVID has been a blessing and a curse in that way that we’ve, we’ve been forced to think outside the box. It’s almost a, like in soccer, whenever you put a stipulation on something, it’s like, okay, I only play with your left. Right. Only one, two, like only two touches. So only in those moments when you’re pressured like that, can you sometimes make a diamond, right. So we’ve been able to to kind of create some pretty cool things out of this, which, which I think everyone’s enjoyed and hopefully yeah, somebody, somebody can definitely borrow that if you ever want it, like, I could send you my, who wants to be Aire stuff. I have no problems that, I mean, I it’s all about sharing. Right? Yeah. And that’s what teaching’s all about, I think is sharing. And I, I always say that, like, I’m almost like a combination of so many different teachers within one person. Right. Mm-Hmm, like, you’re just kind of borrowing and, and, and same with coaching. It’s just the exact same concept.


Sam Demma (20:35):
Yeah. You don’t have to reinvent the wheel at all. If the resources already exist, just, you know, find them and share them. Mm-Hmm when it comes to the past couple months with COVID, I’m sure there is moments where you’ve got outta bed and instead of being like, yeah, another day you were like another day. Yeah. how did you motivate yourself in those moments? I know a lot of educators listening have had those moments this year, or what do you do in those moments to honor yourself and your feelings and try and get your back on track to show up fully for your kids.


Matteo Cianfrone (21:11):
So I, it sounds corny, but it’s like, just think of the children, you know, , I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s, I’ve been very fortunate enough that we I’ve grown up with some great teachers. I’ve grown up with some great opportunities. and these kids, the like some, like I had a pretty seamless upbringing, and I couldn’t imagine if I were them in this situation, what this would be like. Mm. So if I’m able, again, being a Phys. Ed. teacher, I’m so lucky that like a lot of the stuff we do is fun inherently. Like it’s not. So if I’m able to get up and show them the day of their life, like that’s kind of what I’m aiming towards to do it. Then, then maybe, then maybe I made it that much better for that individual. Right. And that’s, that’s something that’s definitely pushed me throughout this. It’s just making sure their experience, even at the roughest times right now is hopefully like something that they’ll always remember. And that’s kind of, what’s caught me up in the morning for sure.


Sam Demma (22:19):
Man. That’s awesome. I love that. I think I’m the same way when it comes to trying to stay motivated. I find that when you tie other people into your goals and aspirations, it no longer is only about you and that kind of drives you, when you don’t feel like doing stuff. Phenomenal. This is a great conversation. Thank you so much for, for doing this. If someone does wanna reach out to you, ask you about your fatilionaire exercise, how you ran the scavenger hunt, or just have a conversation with, with you and borrow some of your good energy, what would, what would be the best way for them to reach out to you?


Matteo Cianfrone (22:53):
So the best way is so my number is no, I’m kidding. I’m not gonna get that. But my email is mcianfrone@bayviewglen.ca. Wow. I can’t believe I’m so happy. I just got that, right. Like that was like, wow. I surprised myself. Okay. Thank God. That’s probably the best way. I’m always on that email. And if I don’t answer in a day or two, I’ll definitely answer as soon as I can. And you, yeah, I think that’s probably the best way. And then if you guys wanna have even more conversations, then I could probably give you the number then. But I don’t want, I don’t want my students hearing this and then prank calling me. That’s the only, that’s the only thing, right?


Sam Demma (23:40):
Yea no, it’s funny you say that literally two weeks ago, I spoke at a school out in Port Hope a year ago, and two weeks ago I got 15 phone calls, one Saturday night saying, hi, this is pizza pizza from St. Catherine’s. Hi, this is pizza pizza from, and, and people were calling pizza, pizza places, ordering a pizza, using my 1-800 number and then having them call me to pay for it. And I felt so bad. I’m like, no, I don’t know. I don’t know. Who’s calling. I’m sorry. I apologize. But I didn’t know how to know pizza. I know I’m Italian, but I have enough for my Nunu. Yeah. Anyway, I thought that was funny. You mentioned that. So that’s very funny. I thought I’d end on that. No, but material, thank you so much again for doing this. It was a pleasure.


Sam Demma (24:17):
And I look forward to staying in touch. Yeah, of course, man. Thanks so much for this. This is awesome with your day. Appreciate it. And there you have another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Matteo Cianfrone

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Athletic Director Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Andrew Hall – Chaplaincy Leader at St. Johns College

Andrew Hall – Chaplaincy Leader at St. Johns College
About Andrew Hall

Andrew Hall (@drumjokes93) is a drummer and started a junior and senior worship band at St. Johns College. He challenges students to write a worship song every year and then takes them to a studio to record it. This year with all restrictions, he can’t do worship band but am still finding ways to give students opportunities.

Connect with Andrew: Email | Instagram | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Redeemer University

Mount Mary Ancaster

Junior and Senior Worship Band

St. Johns College

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. You might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Andrew Hall. He is the chaplaincy leader at St John’s college, and he also runs a band, a worship band with his high school. He is a drummer and he started a junior and senior band and he challenges students to write a worship song year, and then he takes them to a studio to record it. Because this year’s COVID, unfortunately that’s been a little bit difficult, but he is still finding other ways to give students opportunities. And that’s what we talk about today on the show. So pop your headphones in and enjoy today’s interview with Andrew Hall. And I will see you on the other side. Andrew, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. I love the Jersey you’re wearing. I would love for you to share with the audience who you are, the work that you do and why you originally got into the work you do with youth.


Andrew Hall (01:36):
All right. So my name is Andrew Hall. I’m a chaplaincy leader at St. John’s College in this is my seventh year at the high school. I also did three years of elementary chaplaincy in Niagra and one year as an onsite chaplain at Mount Mary Ancaster. So I’ve been in chaplaincy 10 years in total. And the reason why I got into it just was because I have a passion for the Catholic faith, and I love sharing that faith with teenagers and students. And one reason I’m I’m in this position as a chaplain is that I kind of love the freedom that comes with it. Like for example I don’t have to be at parent teacher interviews or grade or do things like that. There’s a lot of fun that comes with this job. So for example, in a normal year, like isn’t a normal year, so I know we’ll get that a bit later, but in a normal year I’d be taking kids to nursing homes. I’m a drummer, so I’d be jamming with the worship band at lunch be going to volunteer at St. Vincent de Paul doing community work. So, and having campus ministry meetings where we play games. And I try to make faith interactive for students because I think faith shouldn’t be boring. It should be fun. So that’s a huge part of why I’m in this job is just making faith fun for students and showing them that you can have fun in your faith.


Sam Demma (02:55):
I love that. And at what point in time did you know, I wanna be doing this specific work? Was it when you were in high school? Was it when you were in university? When did you decide this was gonna be your future?


Andrew Hall (03:07):
So I’d say right after university actually I wasn’t really planning to be a chaplain, so I can kind of tell you how I kind of maybe accidentally stumbled into that role if you want. Sure, sure. Yeah, sure. So anyway, I was planning to be a teacher. I was I got the degree from Redeemer University College and their teaching college program. And I also got an undergrad in theology and Phys. Ed. So I was planning to be a teacher. At the time I was planning a band. So I was trying to make that work. I was also doing landscaping on the side and had all of these different things going on. But one day I decided to go for a hike on a Bruce trail near Mount Mary Ancaster. And if you don’t know what Mount Mary is, it’s a modest area.


Andrew Hall (03:54):
It’s where, where nuns live. And anyway, I, I happened to bump into an none and we got to talking and I told her, you know, I go to Redeemer and you know, in Catholic. And she said, would you be interested in being an onsite chaplain here and running retreats for for grade eights from Kitchener, Waterloo? You know, I never really thought about it, but it was like a really it sounded really secure to me. Like, you know, I was guaranteed, like, you’re gonna run like 40 retreats that year. You’re guaranteed, like these are the days you’re working and, you know, with landscaping, you, you get rained out. , you know, things like that. And, you know, the band and the music industry, it’s a, it’s an awesome dream to have, but, you know it’s a tough gig, you know, so anyway, I said, sure, I’ll, I’ll come by for interview tomorrow. They gave me the job and basically by just going hiking and bumping into a nun that’s how I became a chaplain really. And now I wouldn’t have, I wouldn’t do anything else. I love this.


Sam Demma (04:51):
Awesome, man. That’s really, really cool. And you mentioned earlier, there are some challenges that make this year a little bit different than the average year. What are some of the challenges that your current faced with and what do you, or what have you been trying to, to overcome them?


Andrew Hall (05:06):
So first I think our biggest challenge is at least for our Catholicity is we’re not allowed to have masses. So this is like the first time where, you know, our students are unable to gather for masses and see our priests, you know, face to face at school. As the musician too, you know, I do the worship band. This is like I said, it’s my seventh year, seventh year at St. John’s and we’ve had a worship band every year since I’ve been there. And I challenge the kids to write a song and we take them to the studio to record it. And that’s like a huge love that I have at that job, but we can’t have worship band this year because as you may know, like singing’s not allowed, right. I guess from what I know, it can spread germs during COVID, you know, so for those safety reasons, we can have worship band, like even my wife who sings sometimes at church has to sing behind glass, you know?


Andrew Hall (06:00):
So there’s a lot of precaution to go into music right now. If it’s gonna happen. So just outta safety, we’re not doing worship band. So what I’m doing instead is I’m challenging students to record songs at home. So if you’re a singer guitar player, Hey, record a song at home, send it to me and we’ll throw it in the liturgy. Even we’ll just throw it in as on a random day, like, Hey, here’s this person celebrating their faith at home. And other challenges too are just for example, we, we can’t go to nursing homes right now. Like that’s something I’ve done every year and the kids love it. I love how a big part of, of me is showing every person that they matter and that every stage of life matters. So we go to the nursing home.


Andrew Hall (06:43):
That’s the one thing I love about the work I do as well. So we can’t do that. So as an alternative, I talked to one of the nurses at the nursing home and we’re doing a pen pal program with them. Hmm. So for the month of October, November, I have about 35 students signed up and we are writing a letter to them once a week. Mm-Hmm and also it’s really cool for English teacher jumped on board. She’s getting her class to do it as well. So those are challenges I’m facing, but I guess one rule that I’m trying to come up with is, you know, if what I’m trying to say, I guess is if I’ve try to do something or, you know, the things I normally do, I’m just trying to try to find a different way to do them.


Sam Demma (07:24):
That’s a great perspective. Just adjust and pivot a little bit, still have the impact of the activity, but maybe in a slightly different way. That’s great. Yeah. I know sports have been, been impacted as well. Speaking of you’re wearing a Raptor’s Jersey are you a big Raptor?


Andrew Hall (07:39):
Oh yeah. Yeah. Big time mean that’s kind of, I guess, sidetracking, but yeah, no I have been a Raptors for, I’d say about four years now. Nice. I’ve always been a basketball fan, but like, I’ll admit, I I always love playing it more. I’m watching it. Yeah. but you know how I said, like I got really lucky and I happened to bump into that nun that day. Right. Well, an, an experience like that actually helped me to become a raps fan. I, I won this random contest and it was like, it’s a limo free hotel, like free food to the raps opening game of four years ago. Nice. And honestly, once I went and saw live for the first time my dad, I was hooked and yeah. I never missed a game now, pretty much on TV when that happened.


Sam Demma (08:26):
That’s nice, man. That’s really cool. , you’re someone who radiates hope and joy and positivity, and you can tell it in your responses. And I’m curious to know aside of the challenges that are happening right now, what keeps you personally motivated and hopeful with the work that you’re doing?


Andrew Hall (08:43):
Oh, so what keeps me motivated and hopeful. Yeah. Okay. I guess right now seeing students buy into it, like even in the times we’re in like knowing that students are still willing and wanting to be involved. And I guess what gave me hope walking into September was knowing that during last year’s, you know, last school year’s pandemic when we were off that I still had students participate, even though we weren’t at school. So I thought if I can get students to do that, then I have a shot going into this year. You know? So for example, when we were off last year I challenged students to create like virtual liturgy. So the word, and every morning I would have a student film, a prayer video, we’d send it up to staff every single morning. So we even did like we had a virtual grad retreat for example, last year.


Andrew Hall (09:41):
So that even gave me hope. So for, and you even asked me, I think maybe I was looking at some of the questions, so I’m kind was right to jump ahead, maybe yeah. Go for it. Right. Right. Well, all right. No, I was just thinking about that. I mentioned virtual retreat and you know, I was thinking about I guess one of those questions that we were talking about before we started recording was just like do I have any mistakes that I’ve made maybe, or would I do anything differently? And I think when I look back to virtual grad retreat, I almost didn’t do it. I thought there’s no way kids are gonna do that. They’re off from school, what are the chances? And I thought, you know, I’m just gonna go for it. So virtual grab retreat actually gave me a lot of hope and this happened in may last year. I just thought, you know, if this 27 students can sign up in may. And that just made me think, you know, if we go back September, then I know if things can work. Yeah.


Sam Demma (10:39):
Yeah. How, how did you do that? How, like, if you were to share a little bit about how that was possible for someone who might be listening, would you be open to sharing?


Andrew Hall (10:48):
Yeah, sure. Like how did I actually get it off the ground? Virtual grad retreat?


Sam Demma (10:51):
How did you do it?


Andrew Hall (10:52):
Sure. So basically I didn’t even have any idea what I was doing, but I, I kind of came up with I thought, okay, first off, what would you do in a virtual grad retreat? So I came up, I wanted to keep it simple. So I contacted our parish priest, that’s connected to the school and I said, Hey, can you start the retreat off with a a blessing for our grads? So we did that. We had an activity like where I asked students to reflect on their four years at St. John’s college and write a letter to a teacher that impacted them. Because our theme, we have a free year theme at our school board, and last year’s theme was encounter. So I wanted to, to reflect on that theme of encounter and how has a, a teacher that you’ve encountered impacted your life.


Andrew Hall (11:38):
And then, then we did a a big song at our school’s awesome God, the the worship man is always requested to play it out song. So we did like an awesome God challenge, where I challenged students to listen to the song, maybe do something funny or goofy, take a picture and host it on social media, just with the hashtag awesome. God. And then the last thing was just taking a selfie with saying SJC virtual grab retreat as a hashtag. And that was pretty much it. So it’s just, honestly that took an hour and students really appreciate it. I think one way I know that is just I was actually, I didn’t know what to do with the letters the kids wrote to their favorite teachers. Right. So I actually went and delivered them to the teachers and with my kids, I familiar two oldest kids in the car and we went out, we delivered letters and it really made it was really nice to see just the impact on the teachers, not seeing those students to get those letters.


Sam Demma (12:36):
Yeah, that’s awesome. And during this time you mentioned 27 kids showing up in may. I’m sure you’ve been impacting a lot of students right now during this time as well. I’m curious to know if there’s a story in your mind. It doesn’t have to be of right now, maybe in the past years of, of your work a story that might, you’ve impacted a young person’s life through your own work. And the reason I’m asking you to share the story and you can change the student’s name if you’d like to, for the sake of privacy. But the reason I’m asking you to share the story is because if there’s another educator out there listening to this, thinking to them themselves, you know, it’s been really tough year this year. Sometimes it’s hard to remember why my work important to hear a story that you have. It might inspire them to remember, you know, their, their purpose.


Andrew Hall (13:20):
Okay. You might hear a baby in the background there. We’ll see, but that’s okay. It’s like school, there’s always something going on. Right. That’s all good. Right. So anyway I guess a story about how I’ve impacted someone’s life. Just let’s go back to virtual grad retreat. I didn’t expect to get a letter from a student. But I did I had a grade 12 girl write me a letter just saying, Hey, you know, without you, as our chaplain, I don’t think I would be as close to God as I am right now. So that actually that really I just made me reassured me that even in these toughest times, I can still be effective as a chaplain even going into September our new board theme has transformed. So I reached out to a few graduates and I asked, Hey, you know, can you record videos?


Andrew Hall (14:17):
Cause I think it’d be awesome for our staff to be witness to by students who have graduated and just saying how your faith is transformed at St. John’s. so this one girl she won’t even mind me saying her name, but her name’s Ella and she filmed the video saying how much to worship band impact impacted her life, how it helped her to overcome shyness and just be more outgoing. And she, she said in the video that, you know, if you would’ve told her in grade nine, that she’d be singing in front of like 1200 kids, she would’ve never believed you. But it happened. And to me, I think that says that sometimes people are just looking for an invitation to get involved. And I think that’s my role to give people opportunities and hope they take advantage of them.


Sam Demma (15:04):
That’s awesome. I was gonna ask you as a follow up question, like how do we, you know, knowing that students write these letters to their teachers and their chaplains, you know, what do we do proactively to get those? Not, not that you’re looking to get that response from a student you wanna, you know, impact their life. Is it just tapping ’em on the shoulder and providing them with an opportunity or what do you proactively do to make students feel cared and appreciated?


Andrew Hall (15:30):
Let’s see. Well, I guess providing those opportunities is my way of showing I care. Nice. You know? Yeah. And I also think like the personal touch is like something you gotta do. Like it’s not just going on announcements and saying, Hey, come out. Like it’s for me going into those classrooms and being face to face with kids and saying, you know, I’m not just on announcements, I’m actually going into classrooms. And I think that students, when they see you like walking around the hallway or not just this, not just a chaplain in your office, that you’re actually out there and doing things, it shows that you care. So that’s how I try to show students that I care just by being present and giving them that opportunity.


Sam Demma (16:13):
Awesome. I love that so much. And it was a teacher who taught me on the shoulder and said, Hey, Sam, go do this in the community. That totally transformed my experience in a high school. So I, I can totally agree to that. If someone listening who’s an educator wants to reach out to you and maybe just bounce some ideas around, what’s the best way for them to do that.


Andrew Hall (16:32):
Oh sure. As, so they can contact me at my email, which is ahall@bhncdsb.ca. That’s where they can talk, contact, and reach out. They can also Google my name in St. John’s College and I’m sure my email will pop up.


Sam Demma (16:58):
Okay. Awesome. Andrew, thanks so much for coming on the show. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you and I can’t wait to hear some of your new student music.


Andrew Hall (17:05):
Awesome. Thanks. Yeah, we got music coming out next week for doing something different for Thanksgiving. Like I said, we can’t have our Thanksgiving mass. So we’re actually having we have our schedule set up in four different blocks right now, just with COVID. So at the end of each block, we’re gonna pause and have something to celebrate our faith and give thanks for Thanksgiving. So I actually have students recording songs at home for Thanksgiving. So yeah, we’re gonna have some music coming out next week.


Sam Demma (17:38):
Awesome. Well, I’ll look forward to it and I’ll talk to you soon.


Andrew Hall (17:41):
Awesome. Thanks Sam.


Sam Demma (17:43):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Andrew Hall

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Music Educator Student Success Teachers 0

Karl Mercuri – Social and Emotional Learning Coordinator at The Priory Elementary School

Karl Mercuri – Social and Emotional Learning Coordinator at The Priory Elementary School
About Karl Mercuri

Karl Mercuri (@Karl_Mercuri) is the Social and Emotional Coordinator at The Priory School in Montreal, QC, Canada and a grade 4 teacher. This allows him to actively implement innovative SEL practices amongst the students, staff, and community at The Priory.

He has passion for social and emotional learning, ei, positive psychology, behavior, and educational leadership. Over the last 19 years, he’s thrived as a teacher, educator, consultant, and leader.

Connect with Karl: Email | Website | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Erika Rath – Director of Student Services The Sacred Heart School of Montreal

The Priory School

Mood Meter

Casel – Advancing Social and Emotional Learning

SEL in Edu

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Do you want access to all the past guests on this show? Do you want a network with like-minded individuals and meet other high performing educators from around the world? If so, go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Sign up to join the exclusive network and you’ll get access to live virtual networking events and special opportunities that will come out throughout 2021. I promise you I will not fill your inbox. you might get one email a month. If that sounds interesting. Go to www.highperformingeducator.com. Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker today’s guest is Karl Mercuri. Karl is the social and emotional learning coordinator at an elementary school out in the greater Montreal metropolitan area, but originally his journey into education. As here on this show, started back in Melbourne Australia, and he is obsessed with SEL social, emotional learning and, and answering the questions.


Sam Demma (01:06):
What do students really need and how do we teach the whole child? And how can we get our students to have a positive impact on society when leaving the walls of this classroom? The reason why I wanted to bring Karl on the show is because one, he was recommended by a past. And we give a shout out to Erika Rath during the interview. So Erika, if you’re listening, thank you so much, but also because I’m obsessed with the exact same things that Karl is, although he formally works on solving these problems day in and day out within one school, specifically working with grade four students with that being said, if you don’t already have a pen and paper nearby, definitely grab it because Karl shares so many resources, ideas, and exercises that you can use to make sure that your students are thriving mentally and emotionally during this trying time, I’ll see you on the other side, enjoy today’s interview talk soon, Karl, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. We were introduced by past guest, Erika. You didn’t know me. I didn’t know you. And now here we are on this podcast. Why don’t you start by sharing with the audience who you are and how you got into the work you’re doing with young students and young people today?


Karl Mercuri (02:24):
Hey Sam, thank thanks for having me and a shout out to Erika for actually putting us in contact. Yeah, just a little bit about me. You, you can probably tell with the accent I’m not from, from Canada. I I arrived about two and a half years ago. I met my wife in Australia. I’m originally for, from Australia and my educational journey started 19 years ago. So I originally started as a gym teacher or we call ’em gym teachers here, but we call ’em PE teachers back at home. And and then halfway through my journey, I was really lucky. I had a great administrator who’s who was able to see a little bit of potential, I would say, and turn around and said, Karl, it’s about time you get into the classroom. So I shifted from the, the gym teachers to the classroom.


Karl Mercuri (03:19):
And from there, a lot of doors opened for me and especially a passion for wellbeing, student wellbeing, social, emotional learning. And I was really lucky. I was chosen to go and be trained in what we call a, it was a mental health and wellbeing course about 10 years ago in Australia, which was a, a, a framework called kids matter. And it was across Australia. And so I become a facilitator of that at my school. And then just everything basically flourished from there. All the passion started. So I went back and I did a little bit of studying behavior, been studying in I’m still studying at the moment in leadership. I’ve got a lot of, I would say training in SCL, social-emotional learning emotional intelligence, positive psychology, and then the world is easier oyster as they say. So I, so for me right now I, I hold a job at a beautiful little elementary school in Montreal called the Priory.


Karl Mercuri (04:22):
My role there is on the I’m the SEL coordinator. And I also, so day today, I’m, I’m the grade four teacher and the school SEL coordinator. Nice. And then week to week and month to month, I actually go out and consulting schools across Montreal. So I, you know, elementary or high and just help these schools really make social, emotional learning a priority. And how do we integrate it and how does it just become part of everyday teaching instead of just an extra. So I think that’s the really big thing at the moment and what we’re going through now, we need it more than ever.


Sam Demma (05:04):
It’s so true. It’s, it’s so, so true. You, you mentioned something that piqued my interest. You said after you did the training, that’s when the passion started flowing and you went back and got additional training and behaviors and you started learning a lot more, the, what clicked after that initial certification that you did about kids matter? Like what clicked after that, that made you kind of shift your perspective and decide to go down this new path?


Karl Mercuri (05:34):
Yeah, I, I would say there was, you know, the initial training, there was so many aha moments, you know, it’s like, ah, is this, this is why a child behaves this way, or this is why I’m getting these reactions in the classroom. Or this is why this you know, this, this, this 16 year old boy is telling me to get lost basically, you know, and, or, or girl, and, and, and just understanding the fundamentals of, of, of, you know, developmental stages of in life and, and why things happen. And, and yeah, I just wanted to know more, I wanted more answers really. And the only way you can do that is by being a lifelong learner. You know, if you, if you’re not a lifelong learner, you’re gonna really just basically plateau aren’t you. So it’s, I, I feel like as an educator, it’s our duty to continue prospering and, and, and setting that example for the, for the rest of the, our students basically.


Sam Demma (06:39):
And I think one of the best ways to ensure you keep learning is of course, to take on the role of the student, but then as you learn new content, teach it to others, because I find that teaching to others is one of the quickest ways to also learn the things. If you are speaking to your younger self before the certifi, giving yourself a mini masterclass, per se, on emotional intelligence and social, emotional learning, how would you define the two buckets? And what would you say to ensure that someone understood how important these two things are?


Karl Mercuri (07:13):
Yeah. If I was to te if I was to talk to my 16 year old, say, I would say, firstly, that it’s okay to feel the way you feel. Mm. You know and that emotions, you know, are, if you could look at an emotion as a form of communication and not as this daunting thing, that’s happening, this daunting cloud, that’s ha hovering over your head or this, these these crazy thoughts that are going on. You know, so I would say that, you know, a thought is actually not, it’s not tangible, is it? I would teach myself, it’s not gonna be there forever. And, and how do we reframe things? And, and that’s where I would go down that path. Yeah, definitely.


Sam Demma (08:06):
I love that, that, that makes so much sense. And it, it’s a important lesson to learn and reinforce right now because there’s so many different negative thoughts and thousands of thoughts that go through our minds every single a day, and being stuck at home, I think even increases the number of thoughts we’re having.


Karl Mercuri (08:25):
I would even go down the path when you’re saying this is, you know, we actually have to go out of our way right now to find a positive thought. We have to go out of our way right now to find a positive feeling. And, and it’s so essential, you know, like we know that the negative thoughts and the negative feelings, and I’m putting my con you know, my knowledge of AI and, and, and SCL that, that hat on right now, but we know the negative to they’re so strong and powerful and prevalent because that’s what we you know, that’s our makeup as a human being, where we are out to look out for the negatives as a survival mechanism, you know, but, but right now we need to actually physically and mentally actually look out for what is the positive to then reframe everything that’s going on right now, or ask, we’re just gonna really struggle up. You’re really not gonna see the, the light at the end of the tunnel, as they say.


Sam Demma (09:30):
It’s so true. And I’ve read that, that your beliefs or your thought, that’s the things that you hold true lead to your emotions, how you feel those emotions lead to your actions, what you do in any given moment, which then leads to the result you get. And so when we’re not getting that result that we want, you know, the first thing to do isn’t to change our action, but to ask ourselves, what am I choosing to believe? What am I thinking about? What thoughts are going through my head? I, how do you explain emotional intelligence? What is like, if you could define emotional intelligence, like, how would you do so what is emotional intelligence?


Karl Mercuri (10:04):
Yeah. That’s a big, oh my goodness. That’s a really big, I guess question. And it’s a great one, you know, but for me, it’s the awareness. Mm. Having an internal awareness of one’s self. Yep. having a really clear, not clear, but an understanding of social awareness of others. So what is my impact? What am I doing right now? That’s having an impact on someone else. Mm. You know, establishing that form of empathy for yourself. Also, we always say that empathy is about others looking at others, but even having some empathy about yourself, you know, it’s really, really powerful. It’s and that’s, that’s a lifelong skill, basically. Yeah. And then the last one is what, what really motivates you as a person? How are you gonna achieve these goals? You know, how, through this awareness, through this understanding of others through this empathy, how do I actually achieve these?


Sam Demma (10:59):
And for the educator for you listening right now, to this podcast you know, how does that, how does that person listening, take this idea and try and help their students become more social, emotionally aware and more emotionally intelligent, like is there, of course you do this, like you can consult with schools and you help them. But if someone wanted to take a quick nugget away that they could take back to their kids right now, what are, what is a low hanging fruit or something they could do to kickstart this conversation and put their kids on this path to developing that emotional intelligence?


Karl Mercuri (11:35):
I, I’m gonna be really honest. There’s this one tool called a mood meter. The mood meter is a super cool tool that comes out of it comes out of Yale university under the ruler approach. These guys are like doing some work in the field of social, emotional learning. And the reason why I love the mood meter is because it appeals to five year olds, but it also appeals to 18 year olds. Mm. And the mood meter is, is a, a resource where it’s a quadrant. It’s actually it’s a quadrant. We it’s broken up into sections. And the mood meter basically helps our students through understanding the amount of energy that’s running through their body, how pleasant they’re feeling to then find the emotional vocabulary. So you can actually a, a spot on the mood meter, which then replicates a, a, a specific emotive word.


Karl Mercuri (12:41):
So you gotta think this is an amazing tool, especially for 16, you know, 17 year olds or 15 year olds. Because if you have a check-in, you are about to start your, you go, all right, guys, you know, get your mood meter out or whatever. And let’s see where you’re at on the, the colored quadrants and the mood meter. The yellow is, is high energy, high pleasantness. So we are finding the happy, the excited, the motivated, the elated type of emotions. You got the red, which is high energy, but really unpleasant. That’s where you find the S the annoyed, the peeved, the, the, you know furious type of emotions. And then you’ve got the bottom, you’ve got low energy, super unpleasant. That’s where you find the sad, the that’s blue, the SADS, the, the press, the, the you know, really kind of like solid type of emotions.


Karl Mercuri (13:44):
And then you’ve got low energy, but high pleasantness. And that’s where you find calm, grateful, and so on. And the thing is with these guys, is if we can have check in these students can start to, they come in and they make this connection, right. I’ve walked into class right now. I’ve bumped into someone on the way through, I’ve forgotten my books. I haven’t had breakfast. I’m gonna do this check in right now. And I’m gonna put everything into context as to how I’m feeling and actually find the correct emotive word. Mm. And the, the reason why I love it is because if you ask someone right now, how you’re feeling, I’m happy, mad, or sad, , that’s all we have as vocabulary, or I’m like, oh, okay. But if we can extend that vocabulary, which is, that’s what the role of the mood meter is, then a teacher can actually accommodate and, and, and, and get to, to what they need to do for these students.


Karl Mercuri (14:51):
You know, if the student turns around and says to me, you know what, I am like super peeved right now, there’s a difference between peeved and annoyed. Cause peeved is you’re going little bit more unpleasant than what annoyed would be. So I would deal with that certain situation different to what annoyed would be. Mm. Does that make sense? If I, you know, got an answer from a child I’m feeling elated right now, compared to excited, well, then it’s, I’m gonna, I’m gonna deal. I’m gonna provide them with, you know, the interventions or whatever that they need, or the advice in a different manner. Cause it’ll be way more specific too.


Sam Demma (15:32):
I think it’s such a cool exercise because like, I’m even thinking about myself while you’re saying this and I don’t use many of those other emotions that I, that are probably on this chart. And to further that point, sometimes I just say, I I’m not feeling great, but I’m not like, I’m not even sure what it is. But if I had a menu in front of me, of all different emotions and options, I think it would make it a lot easier to, to pinpoint something down, which also, I think makes us feel better because when you’re not sure what it is, uncertainty like that breeds fear, and it breeds so many other negative emotions. But if you’re certain that you’re feeling a specific emotion, I think it makes you feel even more human. So it gives students the, the space to identify what the emotion is, understand that it might be a negative one, but at least they’re able to pinpoint why it is that and, and what’s happening.


Karl Mercuri (16:25):
And you, you just actually said by doing this by actually identifying a spec specific emotion, you are naturally self-regulating. Mm. So you’ve just said it in a roundabout way just then, but that’s what you do. You actually do reg self-regulate because you, you are actually now have the answer to why you’re feeling somewhere with that specific word.


Sam Demma (16:46):
Yeah. It makes sense because if I’m gonna pinpoint, oh, the emotion I’m looking for is that I’m angry. When I, when I say that I’m gonna like question myself and be like, I am I angry? Why am I angry? Like what’s going on right now? And that’s right. It starts this dialogue as opposed to maybe getting in trouble or yelling at a teacher. I’m having this little inner conversation with myself.


Karl Mercuri (17:06):
Yeah, am I really angry? Or am I just like, maybe I’m really jealous right now of something that’s happened between that’s and then you can really. Yeah. And then it’s that dialogue, that internal dialogue, but it’s also the external dialogue. Mm. Because that’s really important. Cause when you start to have that conversation and you go through that conversation, you’re like, you start to, to, to basically problem solve aren’t you you’re like, oh, this is why. Oh, okay. I get it now.


Sam Demma (17:36):
And yeah, I would say it even makes like, I haven’t done this yet, but I would, I would assume. And, and guess that it even makes the student or the person doing this more open to talking about the emotion with another person than if they didn’t do this exercise first. Very cool tool. I’m gonna link it in the show notes. While you said it, I very quickly searched it. And I, I found an image of it. It looks really cool that it looks like there’s over a hundered.


Karl Mercuri (18:02):
There’s a hundred, there’s a hundred I think it’s a hundred word. So there’s two of them. There’s one, which is the, the one without the word. So that’s where, that’s where you’ll actually use the grid. And then once you’ve found your spot, then you use the one with the word and you go, oh, okay. So this spot means this word. Cool. Yeah. I highly advise when you do that and I’ll, I’ll give you the link. There’s actually an app and it’s really cool. And then you can track your days and see what quadrant are you in on most days and what words are coming up really often. And you can, it’s really cool.


Sam Demma (18:37):
When would you recommend a, a, a educator uses this? Would it be at the beginning of a day of school? Obviously, I don’t. I mean, you, you could do it every day, I guess, but one would be ideal times to use this sort of an exercise?


Karl Mercuri (18:47):
I generally would do it any like transitional times on the arrival to school after like a lunch time, you know, when the kids come back cause you don’t know what’s happened. Yep. And that always has an impact on your class afterwards. It depends even, you know, I’ve even used it as a reflective tool after a lesson, you know, how, how are you feeling now after we’ve feel this? Yeah. Gives me a bit of feedback as to how the lesson’s gone too, you know? So yeah. So many different ways to use it, like yeah. And, and, and it just needs, this is where where my passion is, this, this kind of stuff needs to be incorporated as part of just everyday teaching. Yeah. It shouldn’t just be an extra, it should be part of, of what we do, you know.


Sam Demma (19:31):
That’s so true. It’s so, so true. And if there’s an educator listening who wants to learn more about SEL and emotional intelligence, what are some learning resources or tools that you found helpful that you think they should look into or start reading.


Karl Mercuri (19:46):
Your number one? I guess web, well, your number one, I guess website that you would go to is the Casel website. Mm. These guys are at the forefront of social, emotional learning research. They actually have within the website, they have categorized programs. Very cool. So you can go there, you can, you can look up and, and look at the competencies, the SEL, the five SEL competencies, and look at a program that fits certain competencies to meet your school’s needs. Mm. So there’s, there’s a lot of that, but I would even say, go, as far as saying before you do any of that, it’s really important to just look into only and see what you’re already doing. Cuz you’ll be very surprised. Schools are already doing a lot of this. Yeah. They just haven’t actually labeled it as, oh, this is part of SEL. We didn’t really know, you know? And so maybe do a little bit of auditing as to what you’re doing already and then just plug the holes basically and whatever you’re not doing, then go out and find the answers.


Sam Demma (20:55):
Love it. Very cool. Yeah. and through, through social, emotional learning, I’m certain that you’ve seen students transform. Now you work with younger students but I’m sure you’ve, you’ve seen many breakthroughs or when kids work through something emotionally themselves and they come out the other side maybe there’s even been some dramatic examples where this has had a huge impact on a young person. I’m curious to know if any of those stories come to mind and if it’s a very serious story, you can change a student’s name. And if they’re, if it isn’t actually even, or student, but some something you’ve heard of before, I would love to hear it as well. The reason I’m asking is because, you know, the person listening might be considering quitting this vocation or calling of teaching, do the, the challenges that they’re faced with this year and a story of transformation gets to the heart of the reason why most educators start teaching. You have an ability to change a young person’s life to put them on a totally different trajectory. And hearing that story could get them back on track and back bought into the reason why they started again, you work with really young kids. So it’s a little different when I ask a high school teacher. But do any of those stories stick out to you?


Karl Mercuri (22:04):
Yeah. I’m just trying to think of something that is, I would say before I go onto a story, I would say that just being vulnerable. Yeah. And real is probably the most powerful thing that you can do in a classroom. Yeah. With the children actually admitting when you make mistakes. Actually, you know, saying that, you know what, I, I don’t know the answer to this. Yeah. Let’s find it out together. You know, actually explaining how you’re feeling is to me is the most powerful because then these, and, and especially if adolescents like youth, they will respect you all because they actually know that you are not this robotic person that has all the answers. And so the vulnerability to me is probably the, the, the biggest and most important aspect for me, of, of, of teaching in terms of from an SEL perspective and just from an engagement perspective too. So yeah. But I’m trying to think. Yeah. I think you’ve put me on a swap here with, a bit of a, a, a story I’m not really sure right now.


Sam Demma (23:27):
No, that’s totally fine.


Karl Mercuri (23:28):
Maybe leave it with me while we’re speaking. If something comes up.


Sam Demma (23:33):
Yeah, that sounds great. Like, even if you’ve seen a moment where a kid looks confused and then after an exercise thinks, whoa, like this makes so much sense, you know? Yeah. like those aha moments are really interesting. Yeah.


Karl Mercuri (23:45):
Actually, something’s come up just now. Just see, there we go. I knew it would it was funny. I was, I was doing a lesson called expected and unexpected Hmm. And teaching my, my class. And it was, it was quite funny, actually, this is more of a funny one teaching my class that, that that if you do something expected from a social perspective and from an understanding, if I’m gonna do something expected, then the impact that it has on somebody else, else. Right. They will have a, a positive type feeling towards me or understanding towards me or they will, they, you know, the, the, the reception would be more accommodating, I guess like that. And so I’m in the class and I, and I, and I’m explaining that to them. And then halfway through the class, I just fall on the floor, fall down.


Karl Mercuri (24:59):
I start rolling on, on the ground, rolling everywhere and just doing absolutely crazy stuff and getting it up. And I I’m throwing things everywhere. And the, and turning tables upside down. And then the, the children look at me and they , and then I put the word unexpected up. And so my advice to them, and, and this was a huge, like big aha moment to them because I said, what did I just do? The in like, that was really unexpected. Okay. If that was unexpected, how did that make you feel? Oh, I was feeling really uncomfortable. I didn’t know what you were doing. I had some doubtful thoughts and, and, and I was starting to think, is this got crazy? You know? And, and, and so we, we started to put things together, right. We started to put kind of like scenarios together, and this is where the kids really got it, as I said to them.


Karl Mercuri (26:01):
And this was probably the thing that got to me. I said to ’em, if I’m walking down the, the street and someone’s walking in front of me and, and they drop a $5 bill or a $10 bill, what would be expected. And the scary thing is not all of them said, I’d give the money back. And so me, that was a bit of a, wow, we have a, we now have the most important job right now is to teach our kids and our youth, that it is expected to do those things that then will have a positive impact, like this snowball effect. Mm. Because if I just pick up that $5 bill and put it in my pocket, that’s super unexpected, but what happened? So the next person, if they put the $5 bill in their pocket and the next person, if they put the $5, you know, we are starting to create this kind of unexpected type scenarios and culture and world. And it’s just not what we wanna, what we wanna do.


Sam Demma (27:18):
Yeah, I love that. I love that analogy so much. My, my world issues teacher in grades 12 have taught me a lesson that a small, consistent action can make a massive global change. And it goes both ways. Like you’re saying a small positive action can compound and snowball to a massive positive impact, but the reverse is also true. And his, his theory led both a good friend of mine and myself to start our, our own theory, like our own hands on project to see if his, his lesson was correct by picking up garbage. Yeah. And it led to filling almost 2,500 bags so far, and we’re still going so it’s yeah. Cool analogy just made me think of my teacher. And I love that lesson so much. If, if people are, if you’re listening right now, maybe you can’t even do this in your school, even if it’s virtually. Yeah. I love that. That was so powerful. If someone wants to reach out to you, which at this point should be expected with all the amazing information you’re sharing what would be the best way for someone to get in touch with you? Can they email you?


Karl Mercuri (28:25):
Email or I’m on Twitter? I’m pretty active on Twitter and LinkedIn. Email is kmercuri@priory.qc.ca, LinkedIn is Karl Mercuri and Twitter is @Karl_Mercuri. They are probably the best three platforms. Perfect. and, and to be honest, if there’s any those educators out there, if you want a little bit of a heads up in terms of SEL, there’s a really, really cool Facebook group for those educators called SEL in Edu. And so it’s just a great place to start and a lot of active people, and they’re just willing to help out and give some advice, but I would really love, yeah. I’m happy to help out in any way possible.


Sam Demma (29:06):
I love that. Karl, thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I appreciate the insight into your brain and the research you’ve done and the work you’re doing. And it’s really cool to see you doing this. I appreciate it because I wish I had someone like you in my school when I was growing up and hopefully 20 years from now, we can see every single school having a person like you doing the work you’re doing. It’s really cool.


Karl Mercuri (29:28):
Thanks for having me. That’s, it’s been an awesome experience and a great discussion.


Sam Demma (29:34):
Cool. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Karl Mercuri

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Education Consultant Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Antonio Morra – Leadership Teacher at All Saints Catholic Secondary School

Antonio Morra - Leadership Teacher at All Saints Catholic Secondary School
About Antonio Morra

Antonio Morra is the Leadership Teacher at All Saints Catholic Secondary School and he is always looking for unique ways to provide his students with experiences that will shift their perspectives, challenge their beliefs and ultimately help them grow into better people. 

Connect with Antonio: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

All Saints Catholic Secondary School

What is a GSA club?

City of Vaughan Recreation Camps

What is a Social Media Detox and how to take it

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Antonio Morra. Tony is someone who taught at St. Mary when I was also a high school student. He was someone who a lot of the kids enjoyed being taught by. He was a teacher who was well liked, was respected and did amazing work with students.


Sam Demma (00:59):
Unfortunately, he wasn’t my teacher but I’m so glad that we got a chance to talk today because he has such important, such important life experiences that will help you reshape and re rethink about the things that are going on in the world right now and the struggles you might be facing. He is now a grade 11 leadership teacher at a school in Whitby known as all saints, and he is striving every single day to give his students unforgettable experiences. I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I enjoyed having it. I’ll see you on the other side. Tony, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you. You taught at the school that I grew up in, and it’s nice to, to see you a couple years later again, why don’t you start by sharing a little bit about the work you do and why you got into this work with young people today?


Antonio Morra (01:50):
Okay. Thank you very much, Sam. It’s a pleasure to be on. I’ve been inspired by my family for the most part, as far as why I got into education. I was a first born child in my family, not only in my own household, but also within my own extended family by a few years. I kind of grew up with a lot of young kids around all the time and my family; parents, the adults, they were, they were always busy, kind of chatting and, and having fun and eating and preparing. And I was always left with the responsibility of looking after the young ones. And I kind of really enjoyed that. I, I always felt kind of responsible to nurture, to protect, to mentor, to inspire. So I’ve kind of grown into that by, you know fulfilling that role for my family and I kind of extended that out with that lending hand to my, you know, family and neighbors. It kind of has always been a, you know, a part of me as far as, you know, helping others fixing problem solving. You know, I’m always there to kind of lend a hand and I always feel kind of restless when I’m, when I’m not needed. I, I really don’t know what to do with myself. So I find a lot of purpose in serving others and, and working with others.


Sam Demma (03:05):
No, that’s awesome. What, what part, or what moment in your journey did you know, ah, I’m gonna be working in a school, like I know you nurtured and you grew up in a family where you took care of a lot of the younger cousins and kids. At what moment did that experience translate into I’m gonna be a teacher.


Antonio Morra (03:24):
Yeah, well, it, it, it was born out of failure to be honest with you, Sam. I, I really had a lot of struggle back in high school and you know, I wasn’t connected academically to my to my experience. I was more there for social experience, but it was actually more or less a a, a response to how I did not feel like I belonged. I, I didn’t feel as if I belonged in my classes because I struggled with learning difficulties that at the time were undiagnosed. And my parents usually he chalked up to me being lazy or not working hard enough. Only now as an adult, I kind of am able to look back through my life and, you know, as a father with, with daughters and looking at them as learners, I see a lot of myself in them.


Antonio Morra (04:14):
So I, I struggled quite a bit and I, I really didn’t have a place or feel like I had a place. I gravitated to the social circles. But I didn’t even belong within them. I felt like I was always kind of on the fringes. And so breaking through into those social circles was more of a priority to me at that point than breaking through academically. It was more of an attainable goal at the time. So I skipped a lot of class and I screwed round and I didn’t hang hand in much work. And the result was I failed my entire grade 11 year all eight courses. And you know, as you would probably anticipate my parents were pretty off and they, they were pretty much ready to disown me at that point.


Antonio Morra (04:59):
Luckily I had an aunt which were, was nine years older than me, my, my, you know, my closest as far as relative to my own age. She really advocated for me. She saw a lot of herself in me. She spoke with my parents, she took me under her wing that summer. You know, she said, you know, it’s probably time away from home and, and kind of stayed with me. And so I stayed with her and my grand parents. But it wasn’t a free ride I had to work. During that time of screwing around, I, I also found out that I had a bank account and I started drawing money out of an account. So I had to pay my parents back for all the money I took out. So that summer my, my aunt got me a job with VA with the city of VA summer camps.


Antonio Morra (05:43):
She was a director there and she was able to get me a job as a camp counselor. And, and it was because of what she recognized in me and what I, what I was to my, my younger cousins, as far as a good influence and a nurturer that she thought I’d be really good at doing this. And that was my first real experience in a paid kind of position in a professional in a professional sense working with kids and, and I really loved it. It, it, it gave me, you know a sense of purpose again you know, working with people, giving of myself helping them develop. And also knowing that I had a lot of struggles connecting with individuals, had me or was gave me an ability to see that in others. So, you know, helping people working with their own struggles socially and academically was always something that I, you know, was committed to, to so essentially it was because of my own my own failures that had me want to get into education, to help people like myself who were confused, who were alone, who were scared, who were unsure to give them a sense of, you know of purpose to also will give them a sense that they are worthy, that they do have the ability that they do have the capability not to give up, to keep working in themselves.


Antonio Morra (07:06):
And and, and basically that our life journeys are, are, are not always marked by the same successes in the same order as everybody else. You know, one thing that always stuck with me was my aunt telling me, you know, Tony, did you start talking at the same time as all the other kids? Did you start walking at the same time as everyone else? So why, why do you think that you are gonna, you know, read and, and graduate and, and, you know, meet these other hurdles at the same time as everyone else, we all develop in our own time based our own maturity and our maturity level. And so that’s kind of the message I take with my students today. I kind of just really want them to understand that I’m here for them. I understand them. I, I wanna support them. And I recognize that we all develop at our own at our own pace and our own journey.


Sam Demma (07:55):
I absolutely love the story. It’s so refreshing. And I know that educator listening to this right now is thinking like, wow, this is such a touching story. And some of them might be even having the same feelings, which is usually the case when people get vulnerable and share stories. So I really appreciate you sharing, and it’s really cool how your life has come full circle. And now you are the person believing in young people. And I’m curious to know during this tough time, school is very different these years. How are you able or striving to make your students feel heard and make them feel appreciated and make sure they know you believe in them, despite the fact that education is a little different this year.


Antonio Morra (08:33):
Yeah. Thanks. That’s a really good question. I believe relationship building is, is key for that. If if you take to time in your day put aside the curriculum just for a bit and get to know your kids and more importantly, allow them an opportunity to get to know you personally. I, I really think all of those other barriers, those fears the the unwillingness to become vulnerable and share kind of melts away. I, I was able to in a new environment, I, I moved from my old school of 16 years of St. Mary I’m in a new community now. And so trying to develop those relationships was my key goal during this one quad master these are kids that I’ve never met before. And to be honest with you after two months of spending time with them it feels like I’ve known them since they were in grade nine.


Antonio Morra (09:26):
So, you know, taking the time to develop those relationships, be vulnerable share your own personal struggles, your own personal, your own personal successes with your students and provide them with an opportunity to kind of share with you what’s going on in their life, their celebrations, their failures, their struggles so that you come to know them on a, on a deeper level. And so that they can trust you to speak to you about their concerns. We’ve also created a lot of student groups here. We started to develop a LGBTQ GT GSA Alliance group cuz we felt that that was something that was necessary. We also are in the process of creating a girls and boys empowerment group. They’re going to be known as the unity group they’re gonna work to together, but separately kind of tackle the same issues, but within their own within their own groups.


Antonio Morra (10:22):
So that’s another way of kind of, you know, building up students to communicate with each other, but also we’ll have teacher moderators so that we’re there to ensure that the space is safe, caring, and inclusive. The last group that we’re working towards is a a black indigenous and people of color group. So basically a group of racialized students and allies to combat the you know, the second pandemic that we’re living in today and that’s of racial inequality. So just to kind of work towards racial justice.


Sam Demma (10:55):
That’s awesome. And on those topic of sharing with your students and allowing them to share all the struggles, but also the, the joyful moments, what makes, what gives you joy and what keeps you motivated to keep doing what you’re doing despite the challenges.


Antonio Morra (11:10):
Yeah. You know, what really gives me joy and keeps you motivated is hearing from people like you, Sam for us in our profession, we, we don’t really see the fruits mature, we plant seeds and, and we hope that those fruits ma front, we see glimmers of it. We see glimmers of the, you know, the plants starting to come out of the, of the ground, but we never see it fully becoming what it will be. And it’s when we encounter our students many years later and seeing what they’re doing and seeing how our ideas, these, these seeds that we planted start to mature in what they do in their actions in their lives and how their lives kind of are directed through those conversations we had. So seeing the, the great works of our students like yourself really gives me inspiration to continue to do what I’m doing to know that what we do has long lasting positive effects on our students.


Sam Demma (12:06):
I love that. That’s a great piece of advice, and I think I get the same feeling when I see a kid that I’ve spoken to or something I haven’t had much time as you have to watch them grow, but it’s a really, it’s a really cool feeling. If you could go back in time to your first year in education and give your younger self advice the same way you would’ve give yourself advice, looking back at when you were in school, I want you to think back to right when you started teaching, you know, after all the ways you’ve gained so far, what pieces of advice would you give to yourself before starting again?


Antonio Morra (12:37):
You know, that’s, that’s a really good question because I’m kind of there right now. Mm-Hmm, , I, I feel like I’m right back to the, to the beginning point. First of all, like I said, I’m in a new community, but more than just that I, I I’m dealing with a new way of educating within the COVID reality that we’re facing. A lot of what I did in the past just doesn’t fit this model. There’s online learning that I need to kinda attack and, and try to, you know, devise a, a plan that it would be meaningful. And again, someone who really focuses on relat building, it’s so hard to do this through a screen. Now I do see my students every other day when they are in class, but when they’re not in class I see them online for a week straight to go through all of my curriculum, everything I’ve developed and try to kind of piece it all out again, mm-hmm, you know, and take out, what’s not going to work, take out maybe what may have been used as, as you know, filler and really try to rethink my, my, my strategy with a lens of equity of inclusivity leveraging the stories of the minorities in, in our school, so that their voice and their images being reflected in my curriculum to remove a more colonialist history or perspective in the curriculum and, and to create a more inclusive curriculum has been my, my real focus this year.


Antonio Morra (14:13):
So I, I I’m really am reinventing my curriculum. And so as far as advice, advice, I, I feel the same anxiety, Sam. I I’m up late at night. I don’t sleep because I’m constantly wrestling with ideas and not sure of, you know, of myself. And, and so I’m, I’m walking with ease, I’m walking uneasy. But one thing that I have now that I didn’t have then is is my practice in, in meditation. My practice in mindfulness my practice in connecting with breath movement in yoga just to kinda help me when I’m feeling anxious. So I, I kind of return to my breath every time I feel that that kind of bubbling and building and, and I, and I have this new kind of way of, of talking to myself, not out of you know, fear of, so you can’t do it.


Antonio Morra (15:11):
What, what do you think you’re doing? You know, you can’t do this. Yeah. And, and I, and I just tell myself, you know, you can do this and, and just do your best and whatever your best is, that will be good enough. You know, knowing that it’s not all going to happen all at once, knowing that it’s a pro build on it, and this is just, you know, the first run through it and, and my next run will get better and just, just kind of survive. It just survive it, man, you can do it do your best and whatever it is, if it’s good enough, great. And if it’s not good enough, we’ll so be it, there’s nothing I can change. You know, this is what I can offer and, and I, I’m just gonna have to be okay with that.


Sam Demma (15:50):
That’s awesome. And Antonio, if someone wants to reach out, maybe they have some ideas for your fillers that might be useful based off anything you said in this episode, or if they just wanna bounce ideas around and share some good energy, what would be the best way for an educator listening to reach out and chat with you?


Antonio Morra (16:05):
Yeah. So my email’s probably the best way. It’s what I use. The most one thing that I’ve been feeling is, is just, there’s been a lot of information right now being shared. And that’s great, but one thing that I don’t have much of is time. So trying to, you know, manage my time and, and read through all of this information that’s being you know, is being sent my way is, is, is very challenging. I, I feel like I’m constantly responding to dings and buzzes and chimes. My cell phone, it, it doesn’t help. Social media doesn’t help, you know, we try to connect with people, so we’re using social media to do so, but it’s also pulling me away from the people in front of me. So I, I think the best way, and, and the one platform that I do check often is my email. So if you were to email me at Antonio.Morra@dcdsb.ca, I would be able to best respond that way.


Sam Demma (17:15):
Awesome. That, that sounds great. And you know, it’s funny, you mentioned social media. I actually decided to take a year off and it’s been almost two months now and there’s a lot less dings and buzzes, I can tell you that


Antonio Morra (17:26):
Yeah, I, I can’t wait to do the same. I’ve committed to two, two months a leadership course in the first quad mess. So I had to kinda be engaged in it. But now I I’m, I’ve just delete them off my, my phone and I’m really looking forward to some head space. Nice.


Sam Demma (17:43):
Just like the app. awesome. And Antonio, Tony, thank you so much for taking some time today. Really, really appreciate it. And keep up with the amazing work.


Antonio Morra (17:52):
Thanks Sam, for thinking of me and God bless you to continue doing your amazing work as well.


Sam Demma (17:58):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise, I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Antonio Morra

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Student Leadership Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Katherine Luellen – Executive Dean, Enrollment Management, Interlochen Center for the Arts

Katherine Luellen - Executive Dean, Enrollment Management, Interlochen Center for the Arts
About Katherine Luellen

A Chicago native, Katherine Drago Luellen (@kidrago329) has previously served as Director of Admissions at Boston University School of Music, Director of Recruitment & Enrollment for Carnegie Mellon University School of Music, Assistant Dean of Admission & Student Services for Longy School of Music of Bard College, and Assistant Director of Admission/Music Admission Coordinator for University of Puget Sound.

Ms. Drago has spent over 10 years performing professionally in opera, concert, and musical theater appearing with the Santa Fe Opera, Pittsburgh Opera, Chicago Opera Theater, Broadway National Tour of The Phantom of the Opera, and many more. She was most recently seen in the title role of Tobias Picker’s Therese Raquin with Microscopic Opera in Pittsburgh and Mercedes in Carmen with Bay Chamber Concerts.

Mrs. Luellen has been a guest speaker with the Pacific Northwest Association of College Admission Counselors, Decision Desk U, Music Admission Roundtable, Classical Singer, and Opera America.

Connect with Katherine: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Interlochen Center for the Arts

Boston University School of Music

Carnegie Mellon University School of Music

Longy School of Music of Bard College

University of Puget Sound

Pacific Northwest Association of College Admission Counselors (PNACAC)

Music Admissions Roundtable

Classical Singer

Opera America

Santa Fe Opera

Pittsburgh Opera

Chicago Opera Theater

Broadway National Tour of The Phantom of the Opera

Tobias Picker’s Therese Raquin

Bay Chamber Concerts

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Katherine Luellen. She is the executive Dean enrollment manager at the Interlochen Centre for the Arts. A Chicago native, Katherine has previously served as Director of Admissions at Boston University School of Music, Director of Recruitment & Enrollment for Carnegie Mellon University School of Music, Assistant Dean of Admission & Student Services for Longy School of Music.


Sam Demma (01:05):
Every position she’s been in over the past 10 years, she’s been involved in professionally, you know, setting up opera in concert, in musical theater, appearing on the Santa Fe Opera, Pittsburgh Opera, Chicago Opera, Broadway National Tour of the Phantom of the Opera, and so much more. She is a music fanatic and the heart of her passion is helping young talent reach extraordinary stages and heights. This is an amazing interview. She helps so many young people get into amazing positions for success. I hope you enjoy this as much as I enjoyed recording it. I will see you on the other side. Katie, thank you so much for coming on the High Performing Educator podcast. It is a huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by telling our audience a little bit about yourself and how you got into your work with education?


Katherine Luellen (01:55):
Great. Well, thank you Sam, for having me. I’m delighted to be here. I am the executive Dean of Enrollment Management at the Interlochen Center for the Arts and Interlochen in Michigan. So we are known for a world class summer arts camp that was found in 1928 that serves 3000 students in seven arts areas every summer. We also have our Arts Boarding High School here. We have our College for Creative Arts serving lifelong education and some programming virtually in the Interlochen online space. So I manage recruitment and enrollment for all of the education units at Interlochen and I found myself here quite by accident. And I am an, a recovering opera singer is what I like to say. I was trained in opera and musical theater and had a, a nice run and a wonderful time performing and traveling and being on the stage and


Katherine Luellen (02:55):
At a certain point in time, I took a breath and really wanted to make an impact in a different way. Hmm. And I wasn’t sure what that way was. But I thought about what skills I had and what experiences I had and through my education, actually, one of the ways I supported my education was working in the admission office at the various colleges and institutions I attended. And that was a way I thought to connect with young people and their families to help talk about what a creative education can do for a young person. So I pivoted, I guess that might be the buzzword of 2020 to enrollment. And I worked at a small liberal arts college on the west coast. I’ve worked at a large research institution. I’ve worked at a small boutique conservatory, all usually within the arts realm. And so when Interlochen called me, I thought, well, this is interesting because this isn’t just college. This is, this is really little ones, right? Third grade, this is grownups. This is really fostering that lifelong support of the arts and creative energy. So it’s been a really cool ride and a really nice fit for me.


Sam Demma (04:11):
Tell me more about that moment, where you took a new breath and decided you wanted to make an impact, where exactly were you at that point in your career and what really prompted you to make that decision?


Katherine Luellen (04:22):
Oh my gosh, it was crazy. I was sitting in my apartment in New York. I had about a year’s worth of work scheduled ahead of me. I was in the finals of a major international opera competition and I didn’t feel like I was making any of my own artistic decisions. Mm. I was on stage watching a human with Dick monitoring the music I was dressed as, you know, indicated by the costume designer. I was, you know, told where to go by the director. And so that’s not always the case. Right. Mm-hmm , these, these artistic experiences are much more collaborative than what I just outlined. But for me, I felt like I just, you know, you can’t see the odd there’s that fourth wall. And I wanted to have a deeper connection with the arts and with young people to create a generation that would collaborate differently on stage, that would be, that would push the arts to new audiences.


Katherine Luellen (05:22):
And I think we’re seeing that. But it felt like my role wasn’t correct in that journey yet at that moment that it wasn’t maybe all facets of my brain, weren’t firing cause of what I was being given. And so I, I jumped off a moving train and onto another train that was cool and fun. And and I learned really like in the fire, you know, I actually remember my first admission job and calling my father who’s a finance person. And I literally said to him, dad, I, I have so many Excel questions. I just I’m, I’m just drowning Excel questions. Cause I’ve been an artist for 10 years. And so here is this just sort of skill I’m that I, I need to catch up on. I need to catch up on databases, I’m Excel. And but it was fun and your enrollment is inherently creative. It’s about communicating. It’s about being intuitive and the connections you’re making. And and I talk about the arts every day. And so I’m very, very lucky.


Sam Demma (06:35):
The process you outlined about jumping a, off a moving train and onto another one in the fire is what education is like right now. It feels like everyone was jumping off a moving train going in one direction and we’re going a totally opposite direction with the challenges we’re currently faced with. Can you speak a little bit to the challenges that you guys are facing? Some maybe that you’ve overcome and some that you’re still dealing with?


Katherine Luellen (06:59):
Now for sure. So just to, I guess, outline this pandemic season of education for interlock and in the springtime we transitioned our 93rd summer season to a fully virtual experience interlock and online. If we took 98 programs for grades three through 12 and distilled them into 13 programs that were three weeks long in a virtual platform and it was wildly successful, we had almost 1500 students. And we really leaned on our alumni across the world in industry seminars to offer students experiences, to talk and engage and feel inspired with professionals that they wouldn’t be able to access otherwise that only interlocking could give them. And so, you know, that paired with the foundational training in all of our arts areas was really something that was special about our program. We even sent everyone a camp in a box, everybody got a shirt and a lanyard and an ID card and camp fire like activity for and friendship bracelets.


Katherine Luellen (08:10):
And, you know, we wanted students to feel engaged in the community and our virtual cabins and that social connection was something that was really successful and has actually still continued even to now there’s a core group of hardcore virtual cabins from rock and online that are still going. So we learned a lot from that experience and we had our interlock and arts academy, high school students went home in March a little early for spring break, packed up and we had hoped, of course they’d come back, but they weren’t able to, but we were very lucky this fall to be able to welcome almost 500 students to our campus for live instruction. Nice. So we’ve created kind of a contained community as we are calling it, cuz faculty and staff are coming and going, but we’ve partnered with the broad Institute at MIT for testing and we have significant safety protocols in place and it’s not easy and it hasn’t been for these young people.


Katherine Luellen (09:05):
Mm-Hmm I think that, you know, we, when you think of the silver lining that these people are here, that they’ve persevered, that they’re showing that grit that gosh, we’ve been talking to met in college admission for year. Right. How do you, how do you show the grit show? The perseverance? Well, this proves it. Yeah. You know, I went to boarding school in Northern Michigan in a pandemic because I knew I wanted to create art and I knew I wanted to be amongst a, a community of likeminded people and it, you know, by golly the pandemic wasn’t gonna stop me. And so that’s the kind of students we have here. And they’re, they’re joyfully working and that’s what we like to say here and, and creating that art. But it’s not easy. Staying six feet apart wearing a mask is not easy for a grownup let alone a teenager.


Katherine Luellen (09:52):
So every day we like to say is day one in our fighting COVID 19. And we’ve learned, you know, just a ton about safety. basically in health and we’ve leaned on professionals in our community. Of course. We also have 50 students international who are learning virtually with us who are not able to get to our campus. So we’ve created, created a hybrid model. So, you know, when I talk to families, they’ll say, well, it’s like a virtual high school. It’s not, we haven’t created a virtual high school. We are really serving our students and accommodating the conditions that we’re in. That’s a whole different, you know, ball of wax. But yeah, it’s, it’s, it’s an adventure certainly. Not where we thought we would be probably right.


Sam Demma (10:40):
No. So true. I love the camp and a box idea. I thought that was very unique and no wonder it’s a huge success. I’m curious to know if you have any other things like that that have been widely successful so far maybe little insights or ideas that another educator listening might say, wow, this is a great idea. Let me try this. Any come to mind?


Katherine Luellen (11:00):
For sure. I mean, in the summertime our most popular elective course for any student was something called college bootcamp college prep bootcamp. And of course that’s on everyone’s mind. And these students who are looking for colleges right now in a virtual space, it it’s totally different. How higher ed is reacting in the United States and across the world to, you know, finding the right fit or students engaging with them and how that demonstrated interest plays into decision making. This is totally a new landscape. We see lots of institutions thriving and we see some floundering a little bit in it. And so I think students really were hungry to engage with professionals in the college counseling space and utilize some of the excellent pathway curriculum we have for our academy students. But so they could feel a sense of, I don’t wanna say control, but more just calm perhaps mm-hmm about the process. I have a plan, I have some things to think about. I know it’s going to be different, let’s acknowledge what’s different about it and make a plan. And so that was really successful and actually we’ve launched a bootcamp for college audition prep in November nice, which is gonna be really awesome for music and theater students. But I think that just creating that calm for students in a high stress decision making time was really helpful for them.


Sam Demma (12:30):
That’s awesome. That’s really cool. And, and, you know, you talked about moving from opera to education and I wanna touch upon one thing real quick. When you were a student, did you have any teachers in your life or educators in your life that made a profound impact on you? And the reason I’m asking is because there’s a couple that stick out in my mind for my whole experience in school, one being Mike loud foot, my world issue teacher who put me on a totally different path in life. But the reason I’m asking is because I wanna know what it was that your educators in your life did and what their character traits were or what the things they did for you that had a huge impact. So maybe during this time another educator listening might try to adopt those same character traits so they can, you know, impact their students the same way. Does any educator come to mind for you?


Katherine Luellen (13:19):
There? I mean, there are so, so many, I’ll be honest with you that it’s, I think education is, is the I don’t know, I hold it in the highest esteem in terms of what faculty do. And I come from a, a long line of educators. And so I’ve seen both sides of the desk and the classroom experience and really personally, and, and the work and intuition and gut and heart that go into it is really amazing. You know, what’s funny for me and it could just be a personality trait. Mm-Hmm, the, the educators that come to mind for me that were most influential are the ones that really told me the truth. Mm. And especially in the arts, I think that’s, those are hard conversations. Yeah. Sometimes you know but even, I think of like my freshman, sophomore year English teachers in high school, who I attribute to helping me learn to write, which I now do every day as a part of my job.


Katherine Luellen (14:19):
Yeah. And they were really, really honest with me, you know, and it wasn’t a good grade always. And that pushed me to learn and pushed me to try and pushed me to maybe it’s again, taking that breath to say, I didn’t, I didn’t do this well. And why, why didn’t I do this? Well, mm-hmm, like, what, what were the barriers that are keeping me from making that to the next level? And even with the arts, right. It’s having those conversations of taking potential and passion and how do you mold that into the right purpose? Mm. And that doesn’t always mean the Broadway stage or the metropolitan and opera, the schau pair it’s, there are so many ways that can make a difference. So I have one quick line, my voice teacher in grad school always used to say, Katie, you gotta do it again. And you gotta put it in the talent, put it in the talent. And I kind of think about that all the time. Like, come on Kate, put it in the talent. Like, where’s your talent, where’s your, your space that, that helps you make the best decisions succeed the most, you know, put it there. And I dunno, that probably was not very succinct answer.


Sam Demma (15:37):
No, that’s awesome. And I hope everyone can, cuz when you were saying that I was envisioning my soft spot and my sweet spots and where I can put it in the talent. So I hope everyone else takes that to heart and thinks about it personally, or maybe shares it with their class and their students. if you could give advice to your former self, when you just started working in education, what advice would you have given knowing what you know now?


Katherine Luellen (16:04):
Oh my gosh. In education. I think what I know now is that I never have all the information nice. And I think that I, I didn’t always think that way early on. I thought, well, here’s all the information. Here’s everything about this applicant. Here’s everything I know about the finances of this family. If I’m looking at financial aid or about this event or whatever it is, but you never have all information. And so every decision you’re making, you’re making in a, in a space where you’re trying to do the right thing based on the information you have. Mm. Understanding that there’s nimbleness to that there’s flex to that there’s gray area. And especially in the work that I do where talented young people are trying to make the right next choice for them. And financial aid is a part of that and family commitment and family circumstances and all of those things are wildly complicated. I used to joke in college that on April 1st, everyone loses their mind, like all families that were lovely students who, you know, just stay in the course and then the dollars and cents become involved and people lose their minds. Cause it’s personal, it’s complicated and we don’t have all the information. So you just have to kind of listen and give people a space to give you the information they can or are able or willing to in many decision making situations and go from there.


Sam Demma (17:39):
Yeah. That’s awesome. It’s an amazing piece of advice. And not only does it apply to, you know, getting people in through admission, but it also applies to, you know, everyday students. I don’t think we ever have all the information as, as good as we try to get to know somebody. So, you know, try and make as little assumptions as you can and listen twice as much as you speak. You know, one of my teachers told me you have two ears in one mouth, you know, it means you have to listen twice as much as you talk.


Katherine Luellen (18:03):
absolutely. I agree. And you know, it’s funny with these young artists too, they be so hard on themselves counting the number of mistakes they made and a performance or an audition. And I often will tell them you’re never a hundred percent. There’s my dog friends. That’s OK. Life at home. So you know, you’re never in any performance, a hundred percent, you’re, you’re always you’re always fighting something. And so maybe it’s a dog barking, you know? And so you just have to take it with a grain of salt.


Sam Demma (18:38):
Oh, that’s true. Awesome. Katie, if someone wants to reach out, bounce some ideas around, share some good vibes and energy, where can they reach out to you and have those conversations?


Katherine Luellen (18:48):
Oh my gosh, I would love to do the I’m so eager to just be a sounding board and have other sounding board friends out there in the universe who do good work or who seek to do good work. So I’m easy to reach. I’m just katie@interlochen.org. I’m super here for, for everybody who wants to talk our arts or education or opera or musical theater or dogs, you know.


Sam Demma (19:16):
awesome. Katie, thanks so much for coming on the show. It’s been a real pleasure having this conversation with you. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the High Performing Educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episode, please consider leaving a rating and review so other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Katherine Luellen

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 22, 2022 by Director of Education Experiential Learning Music Educator Student Success Teachers 0

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