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School Administration

Michelle Gauthier – Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board

Michelle Gauthier – Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board
About Michelle Gauthier

Michelle Gauthier is the Principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School and Principal of English as a Second Language Programs for the Ottawa Catholic School Board.  She has been an educator for 30 years in a variety of roles.  She began her teaching career as an ESL and Special Education teacher before completing a Master’s Degree in Counselling and beginning her work as a high school counsellor.  
Her experience supporting students with complex needs led her into administration where she continues to advocate to bring wellness, equity and inclusion to the forefront.  Michelle’s guiding principle remains that educators (administration, teachers, support staff – everyone in the building) must work to provide a safe, welcoming and inclusive environment where students feel loved and part of a community.  Once students feel cared for and safe, they are better prepared to take risks, embrace challenges, learn, and thrive.

As Principal, not only does Michelle make wellbeing and community building a priority for students but she also recognizes the importance of these for staff.  She works hard to ensure her staff feels supported and appreciated, providing an environment in which they feel inspired to bring their best to work each day.  Michelle is grateful for the opportunity to work with staff and students to create a community where young people can grow into their best selves.  She appreciates this privilege and recognizes the gift that she is given in her role as Principal.

Connect with Michelle Gauthier: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School

Ottawa Catholic School Board

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by Michelle Gauthier, the principal of Frank Ryan Catholic Intermediate School. She is someone that I met, and I’m excited to have her back on the podcast, or have her on the podcast and see her again. Michelle, please take a moment to introduce yourself.

Michelle Gauthier
All right.

Michelle Gauthier
Well, it’s good to see you again, Sam. I have to tell you, when you invited me to do this, I was really honored. When you came to Frank Ryan, I didn’t really know entirely what to expect, but your energy and the way you interacted with our students was so vibrant. And I just I feel really honored to be here today. So, yeah, I don’t I didn’t really know what to expect, but I’m really honored that you invited me.

Sam Demma
Well, the energy in your school was just as palpable for me. And there’s something special about the community you’ve cultivated with the staff and the students. What are some of the key values or characteristics you strive to embed within your school culture and community?

Michelle Gauthier
Well, Frank Ryan’s a pretty special place.

Michelle Gauthier
So we’re an intermediate school, but only grades seven and eight. And it’s the last one in our school board that’s a standalone intermediate school. So the students are here; they’re not mixed with elementary kids, they’re not mixed with high school kids—it’s just for them. So it’s a really cool opportunity for us to help them develop their leadership skills. And for me, it’s a pretty special place because I went here.

Oh, wow.

Yeah, the kids get a kick out of that when I tell them. I say, “Yeah, I went here as a student,” and then when I tell them what year I graduated, I think all their jaws drop. So I graduated in 1984 from here. And even some of their parents, I don’t think, were born by then. So it’s a special place—Frank Ryan has a great history. But, you know, I feel really privileged to be in this role as a principal because I can impart what’s most important to me in a school. And I have that ability to decide, “This is what I want to focus on. This is what I want our staff to focus on.”

So to answer your question, what’s most important to me is that kids want to come to school, that they feel happy—not just the students, but the staff. I was just talking with my vice principal this morning and just saying, you know, if we can make sure staff feel good and they’re happy, then that’s going to translate to the students in their classrooms. So a big part for me is a real focus on community and people feeling like this is a home, this is a place where they belong and are cared for.

Sam Demma
What do you think makes a young person want to show up to school?

Michelle Gauthier
For me, it’s that we know them, that they’re known. And that’s, again, some of our schools are getting so big that students can get lost. So it’s a real challenge. We have some high schools right now, grades 7 to 12, that are sitting at 2,500 students. So I feel pretty blessed here that we have, we just have just under 500 students.

For us to be able to stand at the door every morning and say, “Good morning, welcome back,” and be able to say their names, and that they feel known—it’s like a home for them, you know. And that’s what I want from the teachers as well is that they’re greeting the kids at the door, they take an interest, you remember, you know, if they told you something about, you know, going for grandpa’s dinner on the weekend, then on Monday maybe say, “How was dinner?” Just that they really feel like they’re, you know, acknowledged as people.

Sam Demma
You started in counseling and you have a degree in counseling. Did you know you were going to end up in administration in the school or like how did your own pathway unfold as you were growing up?

Michelle Gauthier
Wow, that’s a good question because I don’t think I was ever one of those people that was saying, “This is exactly what I want to do,” or “This is exactly where I want to be.” I started university in math, and then that wasn’t working. So I had—my mom was a math teacher. My dad was an actuary. So math was a big part of our home. And—but I always had private tutors all through school.

So when I went off to university, it was like, “Okay, maybe this isn’t my passion.” And it took me a bit to find it. But in hindsight, it was always there. And I think I’m very close to my dad, and I think it was always clear to him. But second year university, I was really struggling with what my concentration would be, and I finally—my dad said, “You know what, you need to get into education. You know, you were always the one, like the cousin who would take care of the little cousins or the one to babysit.”

And I was a lifeguard, and I taught swimming, and he saw it in me. I don’t know that I was, you know, mature enough to see it in myself. But he encouraged me, and I joined the education department, and I just flew from there. All of a sudden, I was, you know, I loved school, I loved learning, I loved that whole area that I was studying in, and I was lucky to get a job right away. And I just love working with kids.

The counseling has always been there. So I had a bit of a different degree. I went to McGill University in Quebec. Their education program is a bit different. It’s a four-year program. My degree was in teaching English as a second language. And when I came back to Ontario, I got a job as an ESL teacher right away, which was really curious. But the way it works in Ontario back then was you are like a resource teacher, like a special education teacher. So I was the ESL teacher; that’s kind of the realm that I was in.

And what that became was really that support, that advocate for students. So the advocate, you know, as a special education teacher, which I was as well. So I started as an ESL teacher advocating for my newcomer students. Then I moved into special education and advocating for, you know, students with special needs.

I did my master’s in counseling and went into guidance counseling. Did I think I was going to go into admin? No. But I think as I moved through guidance, I realized the role of an administrator—there’s a lot of counseling that happens. And the work that we do with parents and families, reassuring them, supporting them, helping them through some difficult times—I felt I was really well-positioned with my skills of supporting newcomers, supporting families, and students with special needs as a guidance counselor.

So now as an administrator, I really get to help those families and use a lot of my counseling skills. It was a big decision for me to leave counseling and go into administration because I loved what I did. I had an opportunity to fill in for a vice principal who was off for a bit. And during that little term, I realized, “Wow, I’m using—probably my counseling skills were one of my number one skills to use in administration, whether it’s family, students, or staff.”

All those skills were so transferable. So now I get to, in a sense, lead the school. I decide on the direction. And for me, knowing that what’s most important to me is a school where people feel welcome, I really feel privileged that I can steer that boat.

Sam Demma
Young people and humans, in general, are carrying so much in their backpacks these days when it comes to struggles or challenges or changes in the world. How do you counsel well? How do you provide counsel to somebody? Or if they’re going through a challenge, how do you be there for them from the perspective of a counselor?

Michelle Gauthier
Yeah. You really have to be a good listener. And again, it comes down to making a person feel heard and cared for. Often people, you know, you go to counseling and think, “Okay, this person’s going to give me the answer.” And that’s not the case. That’s not what good counseling is. Good counseling is helping someone find their own answers.

So, for me, it’s number one—the fact that students share with you means they trust you. And so you’re there to just understand them, not to try to put your own understandings on them, but really give them the time and jump into their shoes.

Because the reality is, I grew up in the 80s and 90s, and my reality is very different from theirs. I can’t begin to understand what they’re going through. I can, you know, I can do my best to empathize, but they need to teach me. So a good counselor is someone who really listens to make that person feel like, “Okay, share with me.” And as they’re sharing, they’re often coming to their own answers.

So, you know, that’s, I think, the best way to approach it.

Sam Demma
You support the staff, which supports the students, but I know from being in your school that you are in the building running around everywhere nonstop, appearing in classrooms, being a part of the assembly programs. Where did your leadership principles develop from? Did you have some really solid mentors, or have you learned over the years from your experiences? Where did you form your own principles?

Michelle Gauthier
And my leadership style, I guess, is what you’re looking at. So sometimes—and I’ve told this to some of my former mentors—you see people wearing the bracelets. You know, sometimes you’ll have a bracelet that says, “What would Jesus do?” or that type of thing. And that’s—my number one mentor would be, you know, just that whole idea of Jesus Christ as servant leader and servant leadership. I’m here to serve.

But I have other bracelets that I wear, and there are former principals that I’ve—you know, I sometimes think, “What would Steve do?” Oh, sorry, there’s our bell. You know, “What would Steve do?” or “What would Greg do?” or “What would Norma do?” And so, those people who—you know, I’ve worked with lots of different administrators, and I take bits from all of them that meant a lot to me. And I wear their bracelets on my wrist, and they help me when I’m in a difficult situation trying to think, “What’s the best approach here?”

And all leaders have different styles and personalities. So I’ll pull on each one of those when I know—“I know Norma would be able to deal with this well,” or “I know what Steve would do.” So that’s, yeah.

Sam Demma
I had a three-year experience with a coach in my life. His name’s Chris Cummins. And we would talk every Tuesday for about an hour and a half, and I would bring to him all of my problems and challenges in my professional pursuit. And he would bring to me questions that would help me uncover the answers I needed to hear—good counseling.

And you can’t see it, but off to the left of my office is a document on the wall that says “The Cummins Commandments.” And I actually created this as a gift to him when our coaching experience ended. And it was the principles that, from our three years of conversation, are things that I would carry forward in my life as a result of the time we had spent.

When you talk about Greg and Norma and Jesus, it makes me think of the time that I shared with Chris. And so I appreciate you sharing that. I think that learning from others is one of the best ways to form our own thoughts and ideas and principles.

One of the experiences that I think of the most in terms of my own education as a student was teachers who made me feel really special, who listened very well. And some of those experiences I had with those educators—they’re things that I’ll remember for the rest of my life. Can you think of any experiences recently where a student has been recognized or celebrated and you think, “Gosh, this is going to be a moment that this young person remembers for the rest of their life”?

Michelle Gauthier
Absolutely. And there’s a few of them, and I have so many memories too. So I’ll just tell you one little story about—I was at a Starbucks, this was a number of years ago, maybe 10 years ago. And this young man stopped me, and he goes, “Miss Gauthier?”

And I’m like—and I’ve taught so many kids over the years. And he introduced himself, and he goes, “You might not remember me, but you taught me grade eight. And I used to like the environment. And you brought me a little flyer that you saw in the Body Shop. And you said it made you think of me, and you gave it to me, and you influenced me to go into environmental sciences.”

And I was like, “Oh my gosh.” We never know the tiny little things we do, the impact they have.

But to answer your question a little bit more about something more recent, I have a student—so I had an opportunity about three weeks ago. The principal of our Safe Schools program reached out to a few principals and said—“We have this opportunity to recognize a student who exemplifies kindness, leadership, and joy. Do you have a student in mind?”

And I was like, “Yes.”

And it was not hard for me to think of who. And it’s this young girl in our school. Her name is Favour. And, you know, she has made it her mission this year to bring joy. And I have to say, it’s been our focus at Frank Ryan on just building character and how important it is and the elements of character.

She’s in grade eight now, so it’s her second year. And she came to me early in the year and she asked, “Miss Gauthier, can I do the joke of the week?” Because we had—she loves jokes.

And I said, “Sure.”

And so she was putting jokes on our daily announcements. And then one day, I was walking through the hall and, geez, Favour is telling me a joke every day. And I asked her, “You know, Favour, you must really like jokes.”

And she said, “I do. Jokes make people happy and make people laugh. And I think that’s really important. And I want to make people laugh.”

So I wrote that up in that little quick blurb to the Safe Schools principal, who sent it to the police, and she was chosen for the bike.

And it was so sweet. When we went to the police station on the weekend—the Ride to Remember is just a ride that police officers across the province of Ontario do to remember fallen officers. And they ride all the way from Thunder Bay to Ottawa, and they stop along the way.

At each stop, they were going to gift a youth with a bike. So here we are on Saturday, and Favour was our chosen student for Ottawa. Her dad was there, her sister was there, and they’re not a family that has a lot.

And just the pride on their faces—the pride of her dad wanting to have his picture with her and the officer. When they did the presentation, they said a little bit about why she was chosen, that she likes to say jokes. And so they gave her an opportunity. She wasn’t shy at all, and she had a joke for the chief of police.

So here’s this grade eight student ready to tell the chief of police a joke. And she said, “What do you call a bike that can’t stand?”

And he looked at her, and she said, “Any guesses?”

And she’s so confident with him—I was so proud of her. And he’s like, “No.”

And she said, “Too tired.”

Michelle Gauthier
And everybody just laughed.

It was so perfect. But that is something I think she will remember. I will remember for sure. That’ll bring her forward, and we’re celebrating that as a community. We took pictures of her, and we put it on our daily announcements, celebrating her as a role model for the other students as well.

Just be a good person, and the world will work in your favour, you know. So, yeah, that was a really sweet, sweet memory that I’ll have for a long time, and I think she will too.

Sam Demma
The Starbucks experience is one that I think a lot of teachers can resonate with. And this story about Favour is one that I’ll also remember for a long time. While you were sharing it, it made me think of students’ pathways in life.

And maybe Favour will be a comedian in the future. If jokes are something that she is extremely passionate about, you just never know. I think it’s so important to give young people platforms to explore the things that make them excited. And maybe “Joke of the Week” becomes “Joke of the Day” if she has that much comedy or jokes to share.

Hearing that the family showed up and how happy, excited, and confident she was is such a beautiful story. So I appreciate you for sharing that on the show.

Michelle Gauthier
My pleasure.

Sam Demma
I know that there are likely many educators tuning in who are needing a little bit more joy and laughter in their life. If there’s an educator listening who’s feeling a little burnt out, and the start of the school year has been a little bit challenging, what advice would you share with them or words of support?

Michelle Gauthier
So I think the big one for me is to remember why you’re here. You’re here for the kids.

Find the joy, you know, find the joy in the kids. It’s been an intense start for us at Frank Ryan—just a lot going on, all good, but a lot going on. And last week, there was a moment where I was a little bit overwhelmed and feeling stuck in my office.

And I just said, “I gotta get out.”

And I went out, and I just—I went to the cafeteria where all the grade sevens—so 250, you know, 11- and 12-year-olds gathered in one room. You can imagine the chaos that that is. And I just stood in the middle of it.

And one of the teachers said to me, “Are you looking for someone?”

And I’m like, “No, no, I just needed to be here. I just needed to be in the middle of this chaos of these beautiful kids and just reconnect to the joy and reconnect to why we’re here.”

And all these kids, it may seem chaotic and crazy, but they’re all smiling. They’re having fun. And I think, you know, when we’re getting overwhelmed, it’s just to sit back and remember why we’re here.

These kids are just precious, and it’s not an easy road, especially pre-adolescence and intermediate school. It’s not an easy task. I’m not sure I’d want to go back to grade seven and eight. So just to remember that we are privileged to be educators, and we have a real privilege to be able to make a difference for these kids and help them when life is hard.

Life is not easy for kids these days when we look at all that they’re facing. So what a gift we have to bring joy. And when you’re feeling a bit depleted, find the kid that brings you joy.

Sam Demma
That’s such good advice. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show, Michelle, and share some of your ideas around counseling, being a good listener, your leadership style, some of the stories of impact in your schools, the importance of wellbeing, and supporting the staff in the building.

It’s been a privilege chatting with you. Keep up the amazing work, keep up the laughter and the joy in the building, and I look forward to crossing paths again very soon.

Michelle Gauthier
Yeah, we hope to have you back soon, Sam. Thank you so much for this opportunity.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Michelle Gauthier

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 5, 2024 by Education Educator Principals School Administration School Counsellor Student Success Teachers 0

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Martina Fasano – Principal at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School
About Martina Fasano 

Martina Fasano began her teaching career in 2003 at YCDSB’s St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School. She also taught grade 8 at Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School before returning to the secondary panel and eventually serving as the department head of Canadian and World Studies at St. Maximilian Kolbe, where she taught economics, law, and history. As a vice-principal, Martina has had the honour and privilege of serving both the Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy as well as the St. Brother Andre Catholic High School communities prior to being appointed as the principal of St. Elizabeth.

Martina has served on various committees at the Board level, including the YSCPC (York Secondary Catholic President’s Council), Drug and Alcohol Awareness (DAW), and the Covid-19 Logistics and Planning Committee. She was also a member of the committee that developed teacher resources for the history curriculum revisions which focused on the implementation of the Truth and Reconciliation Commission’s Calls to Action to embed Indigenous history into the grade 10 history curriculum in Ontario. As a member of the Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association (OHASSTA), Martina also developed curriculum-based teacher modules on behalf of the Ontario Ministry of Education as part of a targeted project about the role of school trustees.

Throughout her career, Martina’s passion for engaging students has been at the forefront of her efforts toward forward thinking curriculum development in the social sciences, student leadership, school-based digital tool implementation, arts education, school/student safety, and data-informed school improvement. She has also had the opportunity to work with music industry professionals in the capacity of musician, author, social media manager, and public relations strategy. These experiences have allowed Martina to connect student learning to the world beyond the classroom, and bring exciting and dynamic opportunities to the school communities that she has served.

Connect with Martina Fasano: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joan of Arc Catholic High School

Our Lady of the Rosary Catholic Elementary School

St. Maximilian Kolbe

Our Lady Queen of the World Catholic Academy

St. Brother Andre Catholic High School

St. Elizabeth Catholic High School

Ontario History and Social Science Teacher’s Association

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by my good friend, Martina Fasano. Martina and I met just over a year ago now. She began her teaching career just over 20 years ago, and she is now a phenomenal principal of a school in the York Catholic District School Board. I’m going to allow her to introduce herself.

Sam Demma
Martina, please share a little bit about who you are with the audience.

Martina Fasano
Thank you so much for having me, Sam. Yeah, it’s been almost over a year now, which before you did your first gig here at St. E’s. So yes, I’m the principal here at St. Elizabeth Catholic High School, home of the Regional Arts Program as well, and having a great time.

Sam Demma
So you have one of the most interactive offices I’ve ever walked into in a school building. There are records hanging on the wall, guitars, and interesting objects on the shelves. Tell me a little bit about your own involvement in the arts that makes you so passionate about being at St. Elizabeth.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely, so I’ve been myself a musician probably since I was about maybe in the fifth grade or so. I’m not counting the drum set that I got when I was about four years old. But so that part is something very near and dear to my heart. Arts education in general for me was really something that helped shape who I am and the self-discipline that came from it. It was an even playing field, is what I would call it.

You start out where I was very fortunate. I was in a school board in Toronto, a Toronto Catholic as a student, and we started our music education programs there in grade 6 with a full band program. So that was the first time I had actually played music in a group, and you basically had a chance to start from scratch and learn an instrument, practice, and do all those things.

And I figured out very quickly that if you just practice and you play all the right notes at the right time, then everything sounds nice. So that’s kind of a metaphor too, for life in general, which is kind of where I took it. I started out as a saxophone player—that was my first instrument—together with piano. And then by the time I got to be a teenager, I added guitar in there because I was listening to a lot of rock, metal, and grunge at the time. It was the height of the grunge era, let’s say, with Nirvana and Pearl Jam and all those guys.

But definitely something that I carried into adulthood, into university. You jump from high school into post-secondary or into “What am I going to do with my life?” To quote Dee Snider from Twisted Sister, “What are you going to do with your life?” We want to rock, right? So I looked at going into the music industry from a more—not just the creative aspect—but looked into the business side of things.

That didn’t really resonate with me because I wasn’t doing anything that I enjoyed in my post-secondary program. I started out in business administration, and I thought, “I can’t do this for the rest of my life. I’m bored. There’s no creativity happening anywhere.” People work in cubicles. I can’t do that. And that’s why my office looks the way it does. It needs to have things in it that bring joy, make me happy, and serve as conversation pieces.

Because when a student walks in, for me, this is just my workspace. But for a student, especially if they’ve never been in trouble, they assume the principal is there to get you in trouble. So I don’t see it that way. But I noticed very early on in my career as an administrator, they see the title that’s on the door. And I noticed that having a lot of these little things around helped kind of put them at ease because they were conversation pieces.

So we get to that before we get to why the student was there. And most often, the student actually is not here because they’re in trouble. So it’s kind of a reputation thing—people think you only get sent to the principal’s office when you’re in trouble—but we’re dealing a lot more with supporting students as opposed to discipline.

Sam Demma
Well, you’re also the only principal that has a record on the wall with the plaque and their name on it. What is it all about?

Martina Fasano
So, the one that’s hanging in my office was actually when I left a school I was at, St. Maximilian Colby. The Canadian World Studies Department re-recorded Hotel California and changed all the lyrics as a goodbye gift. So that’s what’s hanging on the wall. And the little plaque actually has all of the changed lyrics, which are actually quite funny if you read them.

And it’s interesting because I do have a real one at home that 17-year-old me probably would have been really, really happy about. And, you know, wouldn’t have believed me if I said, “You’re going to end up getting a platinum record, but it’s not for what you think.” You’re not going to be in the band, you’re not going to be one of the producers, and you’re not going to be one of the managers, but it’s going to happen by way of your involvement in the music industry somehow.

And I would have laughed at you and said, “Sure, okay, whatever.” But I ended up being a ghostwriter for a rock musician, and that was the gift. The gift was the platinum record from the Guardians of the Galaxy soundtrack because the band that the artist originally recorded with, The Runaways, which is Joan Jett’s first band, had a number-one song, Cherry Bomb, which went to number one when Guardians of the Galaxy came out as a movie.

So, the record went platinum, and that person that I ghostwrote for was in that band. They got the platinum record and decided to also get me one because I was working on her book at the time. It was just about finished when that happened.

So that’s kind of cool. You’re right, I don’t know of any other principals that maybe came to education for the same reason. For me, it was like, “Why do you want to work with young people? Why do you want to specifically be around teenagers all day?” I get that question a lot.

And for me, it’s quite easy. There’s an energy to young people and a hope to young people that they naturally have that unfortunately, for a long time, schools have kind of almost stifled. And I thought in my wisdom as a young person myself when I made the decision, “If I can maybe change the way schools work, maybe it doesn’t have to be boring, maybe it doesn’t have to be something where there’s all these expectations, instead of actually cultivating a lifelong love of learning.”

Because when you look at, “My mom really wants me to do this and go to university to have this job, and I don’t want to do it, and I don’t know how to tell her,” I’ve had quite a few conversations with students and their parents about that. The fact that I switched my major halfway through from business administration to fine arts cultural studies, talk about a complete polar opposite.

But you have to find what brings you joy. You can make lots of money and maybe even be powerful in some cases doing something that you don’t enjoy. But you’re not going to be as good at it, in my view. You’re not going to be as fulfilled as a human being. And in the end, for me, it was like, I would like to be for young people what I would have needed at the age that I was at all along the way.

And that goes for why I became a vice principal or a principal as well. What did I need when I was a first-year teacher? So that’s what you try to be for somebody else.

Sam Demma
What do you think first-year teachers need to hear, specifically ones that are starting in the education space today, with so much change, especially coming out of the pandemic?

Martina Fasano
That they don’t need to be afraid to take a risk. That it is supposed to be difficult, that all great things are, but that they don’t have to do school and classrooms the way maybe they experienced and to not be afraid to be different.

Because right now, in my personal view, we’ve been doing education wrong for a long time. We have all the great people in the buildings, we have all the great programming in the buildings, we have a curriculum that helps us open those doors. But we are also based on a model that came to be in the 1800s as part of the Industrial Revolution.

Public education was meant to get everyone in line and trained to go to work. Sitting in rows, being obedient, and doing repetitive drills—memorization and all these things. Maybe for that world, those were the skills that were needed. But right now, we live in a world that schools haven’t caught up with yet, if that makes sense.

A perfect example: I was at the Billie Eilish concert last night, and you have the stereotype that young people are lazy, not passionate about things. I saw about 20,000 young people who were quite passionate about what they were seeing. They weren’t bored, they weren’t lazy—they were jumping up and down. The place was almost thunderous.

And in my view, I thought to myself, “This is what school should be like with all these young people in a building. Why are we trying to make everybody so quiet?” It doesn’t make sense to me. So part of being here at St. Elizabeth and having the Regional Arts Program here is that you get to showcase that. You get to see people being creative all day long.

Even if someone’s not in the Regional Arts Program, they still get the benefit of being in that space where creativity is free to flow and to happen. It has an impact on the children that surround those kids that are in the program.

So that’s definitely what I say to a first-year teacher: Don’t be afraid to take the risk. Don’t be afraid to be authentic. The students will see right through you if you’re not.

Sam Demma
I perform at many schools, and I intentionally call it a performance for the same reason you think students shouldn’t be quiet. Like, it needs to be an experience where they have a say and a voice in it, and it speaks to them on an emotional level—not just an educational level—and evokes emotion.

So many times, I’ll finish a speech or a performance, and one of the teachers will walk over and go, “Oh my goodness, I’m so sorry that the students were so loud.” And I say, “No, I encourage it! I egg them on throughout the performance. I want that. Yes, this is what we want. We don’t want them to just sit there with their legs crossed and hands on their lap, just looking in silence.”

Martina Fasano
Yep. You don’t learn if you’re being passive; there’s no learning happening. I distinctly remember being in my second year of teaching, and I was teaching English at the time. The play we were doing was Romeo and Juliet, Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet.

I always had a problem with Shakespeare being taught the way it was. I used to say, “Us reading Shakespeare like a book is the same as showing children a movie by reading the screenplay.” It’s a play—you’re not supposed to be reading it; you’re supposed to be acting it out.

So, I had a relatively rowdy class. I remember that distinctly. I said, “I can’t do this to these kids. The things my department gave me to use, this is not what we’re going to do. We can’t do this. These children will not only get nothing out of this and miss the complete point of the story, but you cannot expect a young person to want to read that old English text as a dramatic piece and not ask them to act it out and see what’s going on.”

So, we constructed this day where we said, “First, we have to figure out what this section of the play is about. Where are we? What’s going on? Romeo and Juliet meet at the party.” So, we basically said, “We’re going to make it a masquerade party.”

We made masks and everything else. I had the vice principal, bless her heart, come by. There was all this noise coming out of my classroom. She knocks on the door, and I opened it, horrified. I thought, “Oh my God, someone must have complained, or something happened.”

I explained, “We’re acting it out because it’s a play.” And there was this pause, and I thought, “This is it; I’m in trouble.” But then she said, “I’m so glad that all this noise is coming out of here because it means the kids are learning. Keep it up and have a nice day.”

The kids thought they were in trouble too! What does that say? If we’re learning stuff and having a good time, we must be in trouble? So, as a classroom teacher, I made it a point to do things that are fun. You have to because if you don’t, you don’t learn. Even if some of them are cheesy or purposely cheesy, they’ll remember them because they’re memorable.

Sam Demma
I couldn’t agree more. I absolutely love that you shared that story, and I hope the educator listening to this reshapes how they think about student engagement. There’s a phenomenal book I’ve been reading called The Advantage by a guy named Patrick Lencioni. He talks about the difference between really successful organizations and ones that fall flat on their face.

One thing he mentions is cohesion among the leadership team. It could be cohesion in a classroom or a staff room. He says the whole team needs to weigh in their thoughts and have constructive disagreements. If the whole team doesn’t weigh in, they won’t buy in.

So, if there’s no weigh-in, there’s no buy-in. That stuck out in my head. When you think about a classroom, students weigh in by using their voice. You don’t want silent people silently agreeing. Silent agreement means they’ll leave the classroom and tell their friends, “I disagree with everything we just talked about in the classroom.”

You want thoughtful disagreement to come up with the best ideas. I love that you shared that story. Thank you so much.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. There’s a lot more where that came from. I eventually got the hint that if you don’t engage them, they won’t learn. Some of those kids in that class had repeated referrals to the office when they were in someone else’s class—repeated.

I knew that coming in because sometimes, unfortunately, I’d get warned and told, “Oh, you have so-and-so; watch out.” I did my best to know my audience. The best thing about teaching is the powerful, real-time feedback.

If you’re teaching a lesson and everyone’s asleep, guess what? You’re not reaching anybody. But you have that feedback in front of you. If you’re willing to step away from what you think you should be, because maybe that’s what you were used to or how you learned, you can adjust.

We’re preparing students for a world that doesn’t even exist yet, using methods and tools from an era long gone. Then we wonder why students aren’t engaged or willing to take creative risks. Starting from when they’re four years old, we teach them compliance. Line up in a straight line, or you get in trouble.

Structure is important because people thrive in it, but there’s a difference between structure for compliance and structure for growth. They’re two very different things.

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love that. It’s like having a fence that keeps people in a space, but within that fence, there’s freedom. Is there any experience you’ve had as an educator or principal where you’ve had a big learning experience—something you tried that didn’t work out the way you thought but became a pivotal learning moment?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. One of the first things I learned as an administrator was related to communication. Let’s say there’s an initiative or a memo you put out, and a couple of teachers don’t follow through or do something different.

It’s easy to send a staff-wide email saying, “Remember to do this,” when really, you’re talking to just two people. I learned from doing that once that it’s not the best approach.

As a classroom teacher, how would I feel if I got that email and I was already doing everything right? So now, when I communicate, I think about the high-performing teachers doing amazing work. I base my decisions on the best people in the organization, not the outliers who didn’t follow through this week.

That applies to classroom management too. If you punish the whole class for one student’s behavior, it affects everyone’s morale. Make decisions based on your best people—it goes a long way.

Sam Demma
That’s such good feedback. I’ve really enjoyed this conversation, and I know the person listening feels the same. If they want to reach out, is it okay to put your email on the podcast page?

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. They can also follow me on Instagram, where we post about our school’s Regional Arts Program, performances, exhibits, and more. There’s always a lot going on, which is why the hive metaphor works—it’s always buzzing, and that’s a good thing.

Sam Demma
It’s been such a pleasure. Keep up the great work, and I look forward to connecting with you again soon.

Martina Fasano
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Sam. All the best.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Martina Fasano

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 3, 2024 by Education Educator Mental Health Principals School Administration Student Leadership Teachers 0

Brian Robson – Executive Director of the Ontario Tech Student Union (OTSU) at Ontario Tech University 

Brian Robson – Executive Director of the Ontario Tech Student Union (OTSU) at Ontario Tech University
About Brian Robson

Brian Robson is the Executive Director of the Ontario Tech Student Union (OTSU) at Ontario Tech University in Oshawa, Ontario, where he leads a team of full-time, part-time and student staff who strive to enhance the campus experience for nearly 11,000 students. At the OTSU, Brian steward policies, mentors student executives, oversees elections, oversees numerous services, programs and events as well as over 100 Clubs & Societies, liaises with University Senior Leaders, and charts long-term strategic planning.

Prior to joining OTSU in late 2023, Brian was a Director of Training Programs and Business Development at Toronto Metropolitan University (TMU) for several years. There, he directed the action-research teams leading entrepreneurship and skills-training programs at local, provincial and national levels. He has presented papers on this work at international and national conferences. Prior to TMU, Brian served in previous roles in Financial Services, education and non-profit organizations. He earned a PhD in Systematic Theology from the University of Toronto, and an MBA (Globalization) from the Ted Rogers School of Management at TMU. His passion is shaping emerging leaders and diverse teams for the future of work in a changing economy.

Connect with Brian Robson: Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Ontario Tech Student Union (OTSU)

Ontario Tech University

Toronto Metropolitan University (TMU)

Ted Rogers School of Management

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Brian Robson. Brian is the Executive Director of the Ontario Tech Student Union for the Ontario Tech University in Oshawa. It is the university of the Durham region, and that’s where I’m from. Brian, it’s so awesome to have someone on the show today that’s basically from the backyard. How are you?

Brian Robson
Good, thank you. You’re my homie here today.

Sam Demma
It’s good. Yeah, man. Did you grow up in the Durham region or where is home for you?

Brian Robson
I did not. I actually grew up out west. I’ve lived in three different provinces in Canada, four different city centers, but I have been in Durham region for a number of years now. I bought my first house out here and still here, and I’ve lived in Pickering, Whitby, Ajax. So, it has been home now for a long time.

Sam Demma
Did you know when you were growing up, living in different provinces or different cities that one day you would work in education? Or what brought you here in your own career pathway?

Brian Robson
Yeah, that’s a great question. I didn’t know what I wanted to do, but I did get a sense of that, I guess, sort of mid to late teens. Mid to late teens, just with some stuff that I was involved in, kind of like you, I discovered that I was good at public speaking. And so I had a chance to use that and to be involved in different things where I had a chance to do that. People would say to me, they say, “You’re a teacher. That’s kind of your thing. You’re a teacher kind of guy.” And I sort of stuck and I realized, yeah, I guess that’s kind of what I am. So then when I started my post-secondary education journey, which has been long, I kind of realized that that is where I would like to be, is in the post-secondary space. I don’t want to be a high school teacher, elementary school teacher. I want post-secondary. So I went on then to earn several degrees, including a PhD from the University of Toronto with the intention of being a professor. So that was my goal, that was my career objective. But the reason I wanted to become a professor is because I didn’t want to just be a subject matter expert and I didn’t want to just teach a subject. I wanted to shape students. So my tagline for a long, long time has been empowering or emerging leaders. So I wanted to build leaders. I wanted to educate and empower emerging leaders. And I thought I would do that in the classroom. Now, long story short, that’s actually not how it turned out, but I am doing that. I’m just doing it now outside the classroom in a university context rather than inside the classroom. So things took a turn from where I thought they would go, but I did end up meeting the same objective that I had set out to do.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. It’s interesting that you’ve kind of discerned the age group you wanted to work with while you were still going through school on who you wanted to serve. Why leadership? Why developing leaders? Was there something about your upbringing or childhood that made that a central theme for you?

Brian Robson
Oh man, that’s a really good question. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of anything explicit, but I was aware, I am aware, I’ve always been aware, all of us are shaped by who our leaders are, right? So whether it’s our parents, or whether it’s our bosses at work, or whether it’s in the school context, whatever, we’re all shaped by our leaders for better or for worse. Even though there’s a trillion books on leadership and all kinds of literature and courses and workshops and resources, we still have, I think, a dearth of really good leaders in our society. And so it’s up to the emerging generations to kind of take up that mantle and to learn how to do it right. And so to learn what true, you know, effective, empowering leadership is really all about. I just sort of knew from, I guess, in my own educational journey that the power of education is where you can do that. It’s a great context for shaping people, not just academically with their courses and with their knowledge, with their academic programs, but way beyond that into sort of more people-building, cultivating values and principles, and finding your place in the world, right?

Sam Demma
When you think of good leaders or great leaders, what are some of the things you think they do differently? Or they do that other not-so-effective leaders might not be doing? I ask it from a personal perspective because, for the first time in my life, I find myself leading others in my own work, and I want to improve myself. I want to become a better leader myself.

Brian Robson
That’s another fantastic question. I think that it’s sort of a mindset and a perspective. What differentiates great leaders from mediocre leaders or poor leaders is really having the right mindset regarding what leadership is. Leadership is not about power or wielding power or having authority over other people. It is about empowerment. There’s a very common term that’s very prevalent in leadership literature, and it’s been around for a long time—even since ancient times. It’s called servant leadership, right? So true, really good leaders are servants. They’re not masters. They are humble, not arrogant. Somebody once asked me—it was actually in a job interview process for a post-secondary school position—they asked me a great question: “What’s the best leadership advice you’ve ever received?” And something came to me quickly. The best leadership advice I ever got was: Don’t own it. What he meant by that was, it’s not actually yours. You have to separate yourself from the thing that you are leading. Great leaders don’t own it because leadership is temporary. You’re going to be replaced someday. You’re not going to be leading that group of people, organization, or company forever. It’s temporary. So don’t own it; instead, see it as something you are stewarding for a while. When you adopt that mindset, it puts you in a better state to treat people well, make the right decisions, avoid selfishness, think big picture, and build things the right way.

Sam Demma
As a leader, you have conversations with so many people every day, and you want to equip them to succeed, move things forward, and feel supported. Sometimes, naturally, you have difficult conversations. How do you approach those as a leader with the people you serve?

Brian Robson
Yeah, that’s another very good question. For me, it’s a lifelong journey. Leadership is a journey, for sure. I’ll be honest—by nature, I hate conflict. As a fifth-generation Canadian, I avoid conflict by instinct. So difficult conversations, the ones you just described, go against the grain of my personality. But you approach them with wisdom. Again, you do it from the perspective that you’re not defending your turf or trying to win a battle for the sake of winning. It’s about doing what’s best for the organization and the person you’re in conflict with. You approach these conversations with humility. It’s not about winning but about reaching a better place in the situation. Listening is crucial. My academic background has trained me to reason and connect the dots with facts. That’s my approach—stick to the facts. Avoid getting personal or emotional, and focus on reasoning through the situation. When you have a conflict, let the facts win. If I’m wrong, the facts will prove it. If the other person is wrong, the facts will show it. And ideally, both of us can come to a shared understanding based on the truth.

Sam Demma
That’s such a great perspective. I ask because I’ve noticed in myself, when I’m having challenging conversations, I sometimes feel the need to win or defend my turf. But I’m recognizing that and trying to improve. So, I really appreciate your insights. You’re clearly passionate about serving students. Although Ontario Tech has a smaller student population, I imagine that creates a lot of beautiful, intimate opportunities. Tell me a little about the school and why you love it so much.

Brian Robson
Yeah, so we talked a little bit off-air about this, but you’re familiar with Durham Region and how multicultural it is. The university reflects that diversity. We’re located in Oshawa, with two campuses: North Oshawa and downtown. It’s largely a commuter school, so most students live off-campus and commute to class. We do have some out-of-province and international students, but the majority are local—people from Durham, East GTA, or York Region. Our student body is incredibly diverse—culturally, academically, and religiously. We’re branded as a STEM university, but we also emphasize “Tech with a Conscience,” which reflects our focus on ethical and social responsibility in technology. As the student union, we serve everyone, meeting them where they are and supporting their unique needs and interests. That’s what makes this role so fulfilling.

Sam Demma
Before your time at Ontario Tech, you were at TMU. What was the difference in your roles of service at each of these universities?

Brian Robson
Very different. TMU is a larger school, also a commuter school, and similarly diverse with many first-generation students. I loved working with both TMU and Ontario Tech students because they’re trailblazers—grateful, hardworking, and not entitled. At TMU, I had various roles, but my focus was on programs for specific populations. These included skills-building and entrepreneurship programs for groups like newcomers, women, Black youth, and students aged 15 to 29. Some programs were federally funded, so we partnered with universities across Canada to deliver them nationally. Here at Ontario Tech, my role is more centralized, focused on serving the entire student body through the union. Both experiences are rewarding but very different in scope and focus.

Sam Demma
Have you always been passionate about entrepreneurship, business, and STEM, or is that just how your career unfolded?

Brian Robson
That’s just how the career unfolded. It wasn’t intentional, but it all fits under my personal mission of empowering emerging leaders. Entrepreneurs are leaders, so it aligned perfectly with my goal of shaping future leaders, even though it happened outside the classroom.

Sam Demma
What are you most excited about this academic year?

Brian Robson
We’ve had the largest first-year class in Ontario Tech’s history, which is exciting. Their energy and enthusiasm are infectious, and we want to build on that momentum. This is my first year seeing a class come in, and I’m looking forward to watching them grow and develop over the next four or five years. They’re the next leaders of the student union, and it’s exciting to be part of their journey.

Sam Demma
Education shapes humans and the future. The work you’re doing is so important. If someone listening wants to connect or ask a question, what’s the best way to reach you?

Brian Robson
LinkedIn is probably the best place to start. I included my LinkedIn profile in the bio I sent you. From there, I’m happy to share my email and connect further.

Sam Demma
Brian, my Oshawa homie, thank you so much for taking the time to share your experiences, insights on leadership, and passion for education. I hope this academic year is one of the best yet. Keep up the great work, and I’ll talk to you soon.

Brian Robson
Thank you so much for having me, Sam. This has been great—I’ve really enjoyed it. Keep it going!

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Brian Robson

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 19, 2024 by Education School Administration Student Leadership Student Success 0

Norman Gaudet – Head of School/Chef d’établissement at TFS – Canada’s International School

Norman Gaudet – Head of School/Chef d’établissement at TFS - Canada's International School
About Norman Gaudet

Norman Gaudet is a bilingual educator and an accomplished leader with an invaluable international perspective. 

As Head of School, M. Gaudet leads a team of 300+ teachers and staff members to offer the best educational experience to the 1,500 students of TFS. M. Gaudet brings his determination toward bilingual education to the school that suits its identity and vision for its future. His passion for academic ambition is felt school-wide through his innovative and informed ideas and programs.

As a proud “Fransaskois,” he began his career in education 30 years ago in the Saskatoon public school system as a Gifted Education Specialist. For the past 20 years, he worked in various leadership positions, starting in Yemen as Athletic Director in 2001. He has also held positions of Director of Curriculum in Nigeria, Head of School in the Republic of Georgia and Principal with Le Conseil Scolaire Viamonde here in Toronto. He joined TFS in 2015 as Principal of the Senior School before stepping into the role of Executive Director of the Learning Forum in August 2020, and becoming TFS’ Head of School in July 2021. 

M. Gaudet holds a master’s degree in educational administration. He speaks French and English. 

Connect with Norman Gaudet: Email | Instagram | LinkedIn | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Toronto French School (TFS)

Le Conseil Scolaire Viamonde

Canadian Association of School System Administrators (CASSA)

Ontario Ministry of Education

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam. Today, I’m joined by Norman Gaudet. Norman, it is such a pleasure to have you on the show. Please take just a moment to introduce yourself.

Norman Gaudet
Sure. So, pleasure to be here. My name is Norman Gaudet. I am currently the head of school at Toronto French School here in Toronto. And I’ve been at this school for going on my 10th year. I’ve been an educational leader for about 20 years and in education for about 30.

Sam Demma
I haven’t interviewed many people who have worked in Yemen, in Nigeria, in Georgia, and now in Canada. Why has your educational journey taken you to so many different places? Tell me more about that.

Norman Gaudet
Basically, curiosity. So, I grew up in small-town Saskatchewan here in Canada, and it became clear to me very quickly that the world is a lot bigger than the little farm that I was growing up on. I just started to get curious to know what was out there. But I didn’t really understand even that that was going to be possible until I became a teacher. I was working in Saskatchewan, and a VP showed up at my school—vice principal—and he had just come back from working in Saudi Arabia, and my mind was blown. I was like, “How can a Saskatchewan boy end up in Saudi Arabia?”

Norman Gaudet
He told me about the pathways to take to go into education abroad. I jumped in my car, drove 23 straight hours to a job fair in the States, and found myself in Yemen one year later. From Yemen, the world just opened up. I had this amazing experience in Yemen. I was there as athletic director. The principal that I was working under, the head of school, ran schools all over the world and asked me right away, “I think you’d make a really good head of school.” So he talked to me about the Republic of Georgia and said, “You know, it’s a small school, great place to start.” And I immediately said yes. That was the beginning of my career in administration and leadership.

Norman Gaudet
Then, just after that, I really wanted to explore different places—places that weren’t Saskatchewan—which is why I went to Nigeria. And from there, I have children, and they were being introduced as the “little Canadians” everywhere we went and didn’t really understand what it meant to be Canadian. So I said, “Okay, let’s go back and explore Canada.” But I said, “Let’s explore exciting Canada. Let’s go to Toronto.” So that’s what we did. Ended up in Toronto.

Norman Gaudet
That was probably about 20 years ago, and I’m still here.

Sam Demma
23 hours straight driving. You have to be pretty driven to make that kind of a drive. What was it about that situation, that time in your life, that drove you to do that, and what drives you now? What is the “why” behind the work that you’re doing?

Norman Gaudet
That’s a great question. So I was teaching history and felt like I was not really understanding what I was teaching if I wasn’t in the places that I was teaching about. I was following the same path that he told me. He said, “You have to go to this job fair.” I discovered later there are job fairs all over the world, including Canada. I followed exactly what he said because I wanted to make sure it worked. That has been my mantra probably my whole life: figure out what works, what path you need to get to what you want to do. And don’t give up; just keep doing it. It might be hard—let me tell you, 23 hours, I was tired, stopped for a bit to just close my eyes, but I just did it because I knew that if I didn’t, I wouldn’t go where I wanted to go. And so I had to do it. When I came back home and told my wife at the time, “We’re going to Yemen,” she just looked at me, and she said, “No, we’re going to Yemen because it is a place steeped in history where I can learn so much about and become a better teacher.” And let me tell you, there are no regrets. We went there; my children were one and three at the time, and absolutely no regrets. It was the beginning of a very long and fruitful career in education that taught me about the power of community, what education can be, and how kids all over the world are just kids. They’re amazing. They all want the same kind of thing out of a school: they want to be taken care of, they want to be loved, and they want to learn. And that’s what I was able to bring to all the different schools that I’ve been at.

Sam Demma
You gave me a flashback when you said you went home and you told your wife at the time, “We’re going to Yemen,” because I don’t have a wife yet, but I six months ago walked upstairs into my family room and said, “Mom, Dad, I’m going to Kenya.” And they were like, “What?”

Norman Gaudet
Why Kenya?

Sam Demma
I had this curiosity in my heart that was pulling me to go. We spent six weeks over there in the summertime visiting schools. And like you mentioned, it blew my mind to see the same challenges that a lot of students are facing here were similarly experienced by students over there. And I think when we lead with genuine curiosity, we realize that we have way more in common with other communities and people than we do different, and we start to get a glimpse of the humanity in other groups of people. It’s really cool to hear about your international journeys. Figuring out what works, following the path, I think is such important advice, especially for educators. I’m curious: when it comes to educational leadership in your building, you’re leading 300 staff and lots of students. How do you effectively manage other people and lead a school?

Norman Gaudet
Well, that’s a question so many leaders ask themselves. I believe in a few things. I believe that if you love where you are, people will sense that. People will begin to believe in what you’re saying. But then you have to roll up your sleeves and show them that you’re ready to put in the work if you’re asking them to do the same thing.

Norman Gaudet
And then I really believe that if you dig down deep, everybody has a purpose. Everybody has a reason why they’re there. Sometimes they need to be reminded; sometimes you need to tweak and find the perfect spot. But if they’re in a school, it’s because they love kids. Somewhere along the line, they realized that they could make a difference and wanted to work in an environment where that can happen.

Norman Gaudet
If you can find that common purpose, it allows you to lead and have people want to follow. You know, there’s an old saying that as a leader, you don’t necessarily want people to follow you. What you want to be able to do is create other leaders. If you can find their purpose and help them see that they can be as impactful as you are, your job is so much easier because you’ve got a whole bunch of great leaders. In my own life, whether it’s athletic coaches, teachers who’ve made a significant impact, or administrators in my high school that I really looked up to and had close relationships with, what are some of the things you think leaders who have made a big impact in your life when you were growing up or who’ve mentored you have done that made a really big difference for you?

Norman Gaudet
So, a lot of these are going to sound like clichés, but they’re so real. It’s about that feeling you get when somebody believes in you, especially if it’s in something you never thought about before. I remember a principal I worked with when I was a teacher in Saskatchewan. I was doing the best job I could, but I never thought of being a leader. I never thought of going further than the classroom. She brought me into her office one day and said, “You know, what you do, you can have an impact on all the kids in the school, not just the 27 kids you’re working with. Have you ever thought about that?” I replied, “Well, I don’t understand. How would I have that impact?” She said, “Watch me.” She was new, but she saw so much potential in me. I had never seen that in myself before. So, I started watching what she was doing, and I thought, wow, she does have an impact. If I can do that, that would be a dream. From that day forward, I started doing everything I could to gain more experience and leadership opportunities because she believed in me when I didn’t even think that was something that could happen.

Norman Gaudet
And I see this all the time with kids. They may feel like they’re bad at math for five years in a row, and then they have one math teacher who tells them, “You know what? You can do this. I actually see something in you; there’s a spark there.” Their whole world changes because somebody believes in them. That’s so powerful. I remind everyone I work with that we have so much impact on kids and the people around us. We need to be really mindful and intentional when we say anything at all, because as much as we can be powerful for the good, we can unfortunately be powerful for the bad. So being intentional when we’re speaking and passing messages should be top of mind for anyone working with kids.

Sam Demma
I talk about it all the time: every human being has a giant invisible backpack strapped to their shoulders filled with stories, beliefs, challenges, and struggles—all of which we have no insight into because we can’t see each other’s backpacks. Every action we take or every word we use either adds weight to someone’s backpack, or if it comes from a place of love, compassion, kindness, and genuine curiosity, it hopefully removes something and helps them live a bit of a lighter life. In French schools, we say, Vide le sac à dos. I have one regret in my backpack, and it’s that growing up, I didn’t embrace the French language as much as I wish I had. As a proud Canadian, I wish I had taken that more seriously. Can you speak a little bit to the importance of the French community and the French language and how valuable a skill that is?

Norman Gaudet
Oh my gosh, I tell people all the time that it’s a superpower. You’re not just learning a language. Many teens find that a language that isn’t their primary language of emotion, which is typically English, isn’t as cool, so they begin to lose interest. I have a short motivational speech I share with them about the superpower they’ve gained without even having to work for it because they were placed in an environment where they absorbed a language. They didn’t even have to work at it; their parents made this decision for them. Now they’re bilingual. I encourage them to go home and thank their parents because they’re the reason they have this superpower. They may not realize its power at 15, but they will when they leave school. In a school like ours, they’re surrounded by bilingual kids and may not realize that the rest of Toronto isn’t as bilingual. When they go into the workplace—now the world is their workplace—they can end up anywhere and find themselves at a huge advantage because they’re fluent in multiple languages. Thankfully, our students are fluent in English, they speak French fluently, and we have a third language as a mandatory course, so they might be taking Mandarin, Spanish, or German. Many of our students even speak a fourth language, so they’re polyglots. That is rare, powerful, and special. It positions them with advantages in every aspect of their lives.

Sam Demma
You’re absolutely right. Language opens doors, career opportunities, and even pure enjoyment—being able to speak to someone in their language unlocks parts of the world you wouldn’t otherwise have access to. When I was in Kenya, I didn’t speak Kikuyu, one of the 42 tribal languages there. But I was so interested that I kept asking our local connection, Kamata, to teach me some words. In these very rural villages, where the road is dirt and uneven, and you drive no faster than five kilometers an hour, kids would be walking beside the car. They don’t often see Caucasian people, so I would roll the window down, and they would open their mouths wide in amazement. As I started learning some of the language, I would wave and say, “Kwite nĩna,” which means, “How is everyone doing?” Within five minutes, they would run away and come back with their entire family, so excited that someone took the time to figure out how to communicate in their mother tongue.

Sam Demma
There are so many words in Kikuyu that don’t have an English translation—phrases, sentiments. You actually unlock a whole other world. What if your soulmate doesn’t speak your current language? You could be opening up opportunities for so many things. As I grew up, I realized how much of an opportunity I missed, but I won’t let that stop me from reconnecting with languages as I move forward. I know it’s important to your school community, and I wanted to mention it. I also know one of the things unfolding in the world right now is the challenge around mental health and well-being. I know that at TFS, it’s a priority. What are some things you’re excited about that are shifting the conversation around mental wellness in your school?

Norman Gaudet
Mental health is absolutely a priority for us. In the past, schools—including ours—looked at mental health as a “band-aid” solution. We waited for crises to happen and then put strategies in place. But now we’re focusing on prevention, breaking down what causes a healthy mind. We all know the causes of unhealthy minds, but we want to ensure we’re putting everything in place that fosters a healthy mind. We’ve broken it down into three areas: intrapersonal health, interpersonal health, and academic health. We focus on how students feel about themselves, providing opportunities for self-acceptance, embracing their individuality, and celebrating their roles. Interpersonal health addresses social skills, building friendships, and the critical skills for happiness. For academic health, in a competitive world, kids face pressure and perfectionism. We need to ensure they feel they’re in the right place, learning at the right level, and not falling behind, which is often a source of stress. So much of it comes from how we talk to the kids. It’s the words that we’re saying to them. So we have to make sure that, again, that intentional talk, that every time we’re passing messages, we know what we’re saying. We want the kids to hear that these are the priorities we want them to build on. It’s all about healthy minds. To support that, we’ve introduced mindfulness, integrated yoga in our phys-ed programs, and even set up zen corners in every classroom so kids can take a moment, reflect, think, and process why they’re feeling the way they’re feeling. How do they manage those feelings? Do they have the strategies they need? And if they don’t, where can they find them?

Norman Gaudet
At TFS, we have a strong academic focus. We’re known to be one of the top academic schools in Canada. But I also want to make sure that while the kids are reaching their academic potential, they are mentally and emotionally healthy through it all. We start young and ensure they have the skills, strategies, and tools to manage everything that comes their way. The zen corner is one small part of that environment. Not every student will use it every day, but some students might need it right after recess or following a disagreement with friends. It gives them a moment to think, understand why they’re feeling a certain way, and decide what they want to do about it, so they can refocus and keep learning. Often, these feelings can become barriers to learning, and having these strategies helps them get back on track.

Norman Gaudet
Mental health today is top of mind for everyone, and kids are not immune to the pressures around them. Unfortunately, we’re seeing these pressures affect kids at younger ages. We have to start teaching mindfulness and self-regulation early. We’re working with our youngest students on mindfulness, yoga, and self-reflection. If they can master these skills and build them into their routines from a young age, they’ll be much better equipped to handle the emotional ups and downs that come with adolescence and beyond.

Sam Demma
I love how intentionally you’re using the phrase “causes of a healthy mind” because whenever I’m feeling challenged, burnt out, or a bit off, I always pause and ask myself, “When was a time in my life when I felt really good, on top of the world, and everything was working well?” I then think about the habits I had in place at that time that might be missing now. Sometimes, just reconnecting with those positive habits helps push me back toward that place of healthy mindfulness. It sounds like TFS has a really proactive approach, and I hope this next year continues to be a phenomenal one for both students and staff.

Sam Demma
For an educator who might be listening to this and feeling a little burnt out, or maybe it’s their first year working in a school and they just graduated, what do you think you would have needed to hear on day one that might benefit someone listening?

Norman Gaudet
I genuinely believe that every teacher needs to remember that if they’re struggling, they will never be able to be what they want to be for their students. Teachers need to look at all the different aspects of their well-being and take care of themselves. I actually shared this with our teachers on the first day of school, reassuring them that we care about them as much as we care about our students. I completely understand the connection between how teachers feel and the impact on our kids. If teachers are healthy and thriving, it’s going to positively affect our students. But if they’re feeling overwhelmed or stressed, unfortunately, that’s going to be felt by the kids as well.

Norman Gaudet
We’ve put systems in place at TFS to support our teachers, and if a school doesn’t have that, they should ask for it. Find the resources, whether it’s someone to talk to or simply taking the time they need to manage whatever they’re going through. It’s okay to ask for help. Schools need to recognize that teachers are our biggest asset. Our kids won’t flourish to their fullest potential unless our teachers are as strong as they can be. Taking care of our teachers isn’t just a priority; it’s essential.

Sam Demma
100%. People often say, “You can’t pour from an empty cup.” Thank you, Norm, for all the work you’ve done over the past few decades in education and for the work you’re continuing to do. I wish you a phenomenal year ahead. Thank you so much again for coming on the podcast. I look forward to meeting you in person at some point soon.

Norman Gaudet
Thanks, Sam. Have a great day.

Sam Demma
You as well.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 12, 2024 by Bilingual Education Cross-Cultural Education Education Educator School Administration Student-Centered Leadership Uncategorized 0

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