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Sam Demma

Phebe Lam – Associate Vice-President, Student Experience UWindsor (Acting) 

Phebe Lam - Associate Vice-President, Student Experience at UWindsor
About Phebe Lam

UWindsor alumna Phebe Lam (@Phebe_Lam) (BSc 1995, BA 1997) began a two-year appointment as acting associate vice-president, student experience, on March 22. Dr. Lam earned master’s and doctoral degrees in psychology from Wayne State University and has been teaching at the University of Windsor since 2015.

In addition to teaching the “Mentorship and Learning” course, she has helped to expand the reach of mentorship programs across the Faculty of Arts, Humanities, and Social Sciences and developed new student advising and support programs, including online projects such as the Pathway to Academic and Student Success peer mentor program and the Reach Virtual Online Peer Mentor Support. Lam has also served several roles in support of the Student Mental Health Strategy and as chair of the Senate Student Caucus.

Connect with Phebe: Email | Twitter | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

BIDE Institute UWindsor

Drew Dudley Leadership Speaker

Wangari Maathai (Environmental Activist)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:02):
Phebe, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here, please start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about why you’re passionate about the work you do today.


Phebe Lam (00:13):
Well, thank you. Sam, it is, you know, a pleasure to, to be here with you in this moment. And you know, I’m very, very, very grateful for this opportunity to share some of my, my experiences. So my name is Phebe Lam. I by trade I’m a psychologist actually starting off as a educational psychologist. But you know, let’s maybe take a, a few steps back. My undergraduate degree was in, in science and, you know, pre-med, I, you know, thought I wanted to become a doctor. But things didn’t end up that way. I think pretty much within the first week of school, I knew that, you know, there was something else for me and that road you know, was, was something that I might have to, to put aside. And so when I finished my general science degree I switched over and and completed my psychology degree and really felt that that was, you know, you know, my, my true love you know, ever since my first memories as, as a child is, you know, always wondering, you know, why, why did that person say that?


Phebe Lam (01:32):
Or why did that person do that? And we know, you know, psychology is a science of, of human behavior. Right. And so that always fascinating me. And so I was, I was truly in, in the right place in psychology. And so I went on to do my master’s degree in marriage and family psychology at Wayne state university in Detroit, Michigan. And then went on to do my PhD in educational psychology. And so I’m a licensed psychologist in the state of Michigan and practiced there and worked at Wayne state university in the school of medicine for about 15 years in mostly health psychology and also doing in working in a immunology clinic working the specifically, specifically with children, adolescents, and young adults and their families infected and affected with HIV.


Phebe Lam (02:32):
And so that really, you know was the kickstart of many of the things that I’m I’m doing today was from the, those early the experiences working with some amazing clients, amazing families that, that really inspired me to, to, to who I am today. So, and then 2015 I I started working for university of Windsor going right back home, full circle, and working in the faculty of arts, humanities, and social sciences teaching doing administrative work, but working in student support creating initiatives for students for engagement for, for retention. And then also I taught a mentorship and learning course, which also was another moment that sort of redirected my journey in education and really sparked again, a lot of the things that I I’m doing today.


Phebe Lam (03:39):
And so where I’m at now I am in a acting associate vice president role of student experience. And I started that this year actually in March and it’s been quite the journey. So, you know, when you’re least expecting things to happen, they always happen. And I’m very grateful that I had the courage to, to take this on because there’s no looking back and I’m here today and I’m excited and really looking forward to them, many things that I can still do for, for the university community as well as beyond that. So that’s sort of in a nutshell.


Sam Demma (04:28):
That was an awesome response. Let’s backtrack to the transition from medicine to education. How did that transition happen? What prompted you to get into working more so into schools?


Phebe Lam (04:42):
Okay. So you know, I, I’m gonna give a, a little example and I might be dating myself by, by doing this, but that’s okay. I, I own it and I’m proud of it. So back in the sort mid eighties and late eighties, early nineties Kodak, the company had commercials and they were, you know, this Kodak moment, right? And the whole commercial was, you know your true colors, your true colors, you know, let your true colors shine through and, you know take those opportunities. And so throughout my life, I looking back, I had all these sort of codes, exact moments where they, you know, really changed, you know, my direction in, in life. And so so going from, from thinking about a career in medicine to, to education and psychology the turning point if I had to pinpoint was when I almost blew up our science lab because my partner and I, we didn’t know that our buns and burner was on and it was on, and suddenly the the GA at the time said, you know, I think we smell some, some gas and everybody’s looking at each other.


Phebe Lam (06:02):
And I looked at my little buns and burner, and I, I saw that it was indeed on, but with no flame. And so at that moment, we, you know, I kicked into action. I, you know, we turned it off. But inside, there was a moment where I thought, you know what there’s something more, and me sitting in this lab full of anxiety, full of stress, because I didn’t know it was my first year, first lab. I didn’t know where, what I was doing was unsure, but at that moment, because of that, I don’t know if it was the stress. It was that moment where some light turned on and I said, okay, Phoebe you know, hang tight. There’s something out there. And so from there on, I was always looking, always listening, always, you know, trying to you know, maybe you can sum it up as being just curious, curious as to what my journey should be.


Phebe Lam (06:59):
And so, as I was curious, talking to more and more people you know, learning and seeking out mentors it led me to, to hone in on, you know, how I love and I thrive to be in the environment where there is that learner teacher or mentee mentor relationships and, you know, supporting people in their darkest moments really, really touched me. And so then I knew that, you know, psychology and education was something that I wanted to head into. And at that moment, I still didn’t know what, you know, what, where that was going to lead. Right. But I was very open to those opportunities. And and here I am.


Sam Demma (07:48):
Steve jobs has this quote, and I’m gonna read it off of my phone because I shared it on Twitter recently. He said, okay, your work is gonna fill a large part of your life. And the only way to be truly five is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. And if you haven’t found it yet, keep looking, don’t settle. And based on what you just told me, it sounds like that little quote that Steve shared, it was at a 20, a 2005 Stanford commencement address sums up what sounds like your journey in education. It sounds like you were curious to find the thing you loved and that curiosity just kept pulling you forward. Where do you think absolutely. Where do you think that curiosity kind of comes from where you always, some, one that was interested in things growing up or was it cultivated?


Phebe Lam (08:46):
You know, a part of it was always interested, you know, and always curious of the things that I didn’t know. Mm. And very early on my especially my father really instilled in, you know in, in myself the, the desire and that passion to always be curious, you know, always ask questions. And as I’m speaking now, I can’t even think back to my grandparents who, who you know, had also very close relationship with. They would always, you know, we would always talk about or they would share their stories with, with me. And I was always very curious and very good listener. I think I mostly did a lot of listening more than asking questions. I don’t believe that I was that kid that asked a lot of questions. Right. I was always the, the, the observer, the, the listener and, and taking everything in and then, and then reflecting in the processing on that.


Phebe Lam (09:54):
But I, we really enjoyed stories, you know, listening to stories. I mean, that’s how I learn, learn the best. And that’s, you know, part of my teaching is through telling stories and listening to people’s lived experience. Wouldn’t it be great, Sam, if, you know, everybody could write their own story, you know, and we could tap into someone’s journey. And I think about that when I teach, I think about that when I mentoring students and working with students is, you know, taking that time to say, Hey, you know, what is your story? You know, what were your experiences? Because it’s not until I understand and hear those stories that I can be, be here to help support and, and truly understand, and, and, and listen and appreciate where they are in that moment when I’m with them. Yeah. Oh, I hope I answered that question.


Sam Demma (10:50):
You did, you did the importance of stories is connected to this idea of, of the importance of mentorship. I’ve had many mentors in my life who thinking about it now taught me so many things through the sharing of experiences and stories that they went through, which is why I think it’s so important to have somebody in your life who can mentor you, who can have your best interests at, and also be willing to invest some time into sharing some of their own experiences and learnings with you. You are a big fan of mentorship, helped turn it into even like a curriculum. And course, can you talk a little bit about that?


Phebe Lam (11:32):
Absolutely. and, you know before I start talking about it, you know, I use a lot of word interchangeably and I, and, and words are so incredibly important because, you know, I used to think about, you know, the, the education as the learner and the teacher, and now I’m finding because of, you know, that Kodak moment or that opportunity to, to head down you know, teaching this course mentorship and learning has led me to think about, you know, re or unlearning and relearning what education and what teaching really is. And for me teaching is actually mentoring because it’s not, there’s no boundaries. You know, when the class is done where you’re done taking my course, that relationship continues on. And I tell this to my students all the time, even my, anybody who I I’ve ever worked with. And a past teacher or professor you know, Dr.


Phebe Lam (12:35):
Clark Johnson back in my grad school days, he said this to all our students, you know, your tuition with me is good for a lifetime. Hmm. As long as you can find me, I’m here for you. And I offer that to all my students. I mean, you find me, I I’m here to support you. And through the, you know, 20, some odd year as of post-secondary teaching I’ve had students come back to me. I may not remember them you know, but I, you know, I I’m there. And so, okay. So leading into the mentorship. So in 2016 I was given the opportunity to teach a course called mentorship and learning. And it’s a fourth year level class that that teaches third and fourth year students to become mentors in a first year course in the faculty of arts, human to use in, or social sciences.


Phebe Lam (13:36):
And these mentors are in a majors only. So if you’re a psychology major, you would mentor in the first year psychology course. Okay. And so this class actually began in 2005 co-founders Tina Dr. Tina pules and professor Tson bacon. And so they gave me the opportunity to teach this class. I did not know what I was getting myself into. I mean, I did some work with mentoring in HIV where we would have doctors and nurses and staff at the hospital be mentors for, for, for, for children in, in our clinic. But this, you know, teaching mentorship, like I know about mentoring, but, you know, so I kind of just dove to it and said, you know what? I trust that they chose me. And you know, I’m gonna trust this process and I can tell you Sam it has changed my life, you know being a mentor and a mentee.


Phebe Lam (14:41):
It, you know, first year students that come to university is a transition period, and we know that they’re at risk, right. And so having these mentors who are their peers is incredibly important, right. We’ve seen the, the statistics in retention, but more importantly, this class is for these, you know, 25 to 50. Now we have about a hundred students mentors to foster and to to help them to grow in, you know, leadership and becoming mentors for the rest of their lives to seek out mentors to be mentees, but to also be mentors themselves. So, yeah. And and many of the students that I’ve taught over the years you know, they’re working alongside me in the office of student experience even right now. So these are relationships that have continued on. Yeah. And will continue on,


Sam Demma (15:41):
Did the BIDE Institute come to life with students in that class? Or tell me a little bit about the origins of the Biden Institute as well.


Phebe Lam (15:50):
Okay. yes. So the by Institute B I D E stands for belonging, inclusivity, diversity, and equity. And this is a student led student run initiative that focuses on those four pillars, belonging, inclusivity, diversity and equity, and the co-founders of these, this Institute are two two of my students who went through the mentorship and learning program. Cool. And I knew, you know, you know, when you see you know, the potential in, in, in, in students you know, my first, my first, you know, thing to do is to, to grab a hold of them and say, Hey, listen, you, you, you know, this is, this is a great opportunity. And actually they came up with this opportunity or this initiative I said to them, you know, back in may, I said, listen, you know, I wanna do something for the students.


Phebe Lam (16:50):
And, you know, it’s not me, it’s gonna be students working with students, students coming up with these initiatives. And within two months the Biden Institute came up and and we’re very excited to kickstart this very unique Institute for students. Basically it’s a platform where students can come to together share their experiences, share what they know, share their passion through conversation, through activities and providing a safer and brave place for them to be able to see their, their creativity, see their thoughts come in to to, to life and to be able to to, to, to build their legacy every day.


Sam Demma (17:44):
Hmm. It’s amazing. If someone is interested in learning more about the Institute, does it have a web URL or a, a page that someone can search to read about it?


Phebe Lam (17:54):
Yes. Yes they do. Yes, they do. Sorry. Yes, we do. So if I can share that link with you you know, after yeah.


Sam Demma (18:05):
Awesome. Amazing. And what the does the day in the life look like in your current role and position you’ve done, you know, various different things. What, what does the day in the life look like now?


Phebe Lam (18:20):
Oh, wow.


Sam Demma (18:21):
That’s a tough one.


Phebe Lam (18:22):
Oh, no, it’s it, yes. It, it’s a, it’s a tough one, but it’s also really exciting just, you know, it is every day of you know, how can I even sum it up? It’s it’s leadership in a in a, in a way that I didn’t see leadership as it is the way that I see it today. And so, you know, just a few points, you know I’ve really learned that, you know, I don’t have to have the right answers and just the thought of that gives me freedom, right. Gives me freedom to, to be curious, because that’s also freedom. And, you know, understand that the power in leadership comes when we share it and we support it in others. And a large part of what I do is is, is fostering our future leaders and having students working in my office.


Phebe Lam (19:30):
Now I have, you know, this office has, you know five directors that are are, are so wonderful. And, you know, when I look at the work that they do it’s the commitment, you know, it’s their it’s, I see the inspiration that they have in them and the passion that they have in them to really serve the students, because they want to make, you know, this community this world a truly, a better place. And, and again, you know, that leaving that legacy be, be behind, right. As, as we move forward you know, in the day in the life, you know, every day is about being vulnerable keeping in check with who I am being aware and constantly reflecting and and assessing where I am where others are and to meet others where they are not expect to, to come to me and be at my place, but for me to put forth, authentic and genuine effort to go to where they are and to meet them where they are and see what our student needs are and what what needs are for those who work alongside me and to nurture that.


Sam Demma (20:54):
Awesome, something that I believe is important is being a lifelong learner. And you strike me as someone with curiosity, who is always looking for new ways to grow and learn new things over the course of your career, have you found any books or resources or courses or things that you had went through that were extremely valuable that you think if other educators had the chance to read, watch, or experience would also be helpful for their personal development?


Phebe Lam (21:29):
Absolutely. So I have a, a few a few a few videos or a few individuals that, that again have really impacted my view in perspective in not just, you know, education or teaching and learning and not just in mentoring and leadership, but for every day. Mm. So you don’t have to be a teacher or you can be a child or anyone, you know, I mean, there’s seven point what 8 billion people in this, in this world. And we’re all unique living beings, right. Each with our own lived experiences. So so yes, there are, there are the first one is Drew Dudley. He is a, you know, leadership speaker and he speaks to everyday leadership and the lollipop moment, how we should be creating impact every day through not just the big stuff, because most of us are not doing those big grand things, but those everyday leadership opportunities by, you know, as simple as acknowledging what somebody’s done for you, and those are those lollipop moments, and I’ve really done a lot, made an effort to do that more and more.


Phebe Lam (22:49):
And week I, I, I look back and reflect on my life and think, oh, you know what, at this moment, this person made a huge difference in my life. And it could have been easy as a, a, a, a constant smile that this person always had. And I, I went back and I acknowledged that, and, you know and that’s been really great. So ju du lead the everyday leadership, his Ted talk really really impacted me. The other person that’s really impacted myself is Dra woman’s right. A, she won the she received the 2004 Nobel peace prize for her work. And she speaks to the story of a hummingbird and where, you know, a hummingbird is in this huge Flos and this Floris is consumed with fire, and all the animals have, you know, come together and are, is looking with, at this floors burning and feeling, you know, very overwhelmed and powerless, and, you know, not knowing what to do, except for this little hummingbird and this little hummingbird, you know, said to itself, well, I’m gonna do something about this fire.


Phebe Lam (24:04):
So it flies back and forth to the stream and brings with this little beak, a tiny droplets of water and sprinkling onto this huge forest fire. And all the animals are, you know, animals bigger than the hummingbird, you know, said to this hummingbird, you know, what are you doing? You know, you’re so small, this fire is so big and your wings are so little, you know, you only carry a drop of water at the time. Like, what are, you know, what’s that gonna do? And, you know, this little hummingbird was not at all discouraged. And it turned to these, these animals and said, you know, I’m doing the best I can. Mm. And, you know, I, I carry that with me. And I shared, you know, this story with, with my students all the time, as I, you know, we can just do the best we can, you know, and and that’s enough.


Phebe Lam (24:52):
Right. And, you know, and it’s okay to be that hummingbird because there are other hummingbirds around who are doing this exact same thing. And, you know, we, we, we can, you know, we see each other and together, you know, is better. And you know, as, as small as you think that you are, or maybe you may feel insignificant, you really are not you know, you just need to do the best you can and to, to be able to reach out for support when you can. So those are, you know, the two you know, two little videos, short videos that that really has, you know, impacted my journey and has really, you know, given me some clear direction. I always go back to, to those two things. You know, especially when times are challenging and when times are difficult.


Sam Demma (25:43):
That’s amazing. Those are both two awesome resources. I’ll make sure to link them in the show notes and on the article. So you can watch those if you’d like as well, Phoebe, this has been a really enjoyable conversation packed with so many experiences and ideas. If someone wants to reach out, send you a message, what would be the best way for them to get in contact with you?


Phebe Lam (26:07):
My email at the university of Windsor I’m also on LinkedIn. I have to do better with that. Not as I don’t keep up with that as, as much, but that’s one of my goals for 2022. But yes, my email is, you know, Phebe.Lam@uwindsor.ca


Sam Demma (26:28):
Awesome. Phoebe, thank you so much. Keep up the amazing work. Keep being a hummingbird and making everyday impact. And I’ll talk to you soon.


Phebe Lam (26:37):
Thank you, Sam. Thank you again for this opportunity.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Phebe Lam

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 16, 2022 by Association Director Experiential Learning Professor Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Alana Principe – Grade One Teacher with the Halton Catholic District School Board

Alana Principe - Grade One Teacher with the Halton Catholic District School Board
About Alana Principe

Alana Principe (@MissPrincipe) is a grade one teacher with the Halton Catholic District School Board. Before teaching Grade One, she taught Grade 2/3 and Kindergarten. She’s always had a love (and so much energy) for the primary grades! Her passion for teaching and working with students started at a very young age.

Growing up in a big family helped shape her into the leader, helper, and nurturer she is today. Before becoming a permanent teacher, she spent time working at a daycare, babysitting and volunteering at schools.  Now, she loves spending her days teaching, tutoring, going on walks and being with family. She feels so grateful to be living out my childhood dream!

Connect with Alana: Email | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Alana, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about what brought you to, where you are in education now.


Alana Principe (00:13):
Yeah. Awesome. Thank you for having me. I am definitely excited to just have a little platform where I can share some of the joy in love for teaching which is great. I think what brought me to this point is a long little mini history story, but I was born into a family with six kids and my mom ran a home daycare. So I think always from a very young age I knew that teaching and working with kids would be where I want it to be in the future. And so throughout my years in high school, I would join P peer tutoring. I would try and do different volunteer opportunities just to work with other students. And then I got into working at daycare before leading into university where I started pursuing actual teaching.


Sam Demma (01:08):
Nice.


Alana Principe (01:09):
Yeah, which has been exciting. It’s been everything I’ve hoped for and dreamt for. But I think it’s, it’s good. I’ve been one of the lucky ones that kind of always knew what I wanted to do. I always knew I wanted to work with students, but all those volunteer opportunities kind of just solidified that and reminded me that, yeah, this is where you wanna be. This is where you need to be before actually paying for university.


Sam Demma (01:36):
Do you remember any stories that stuck out from the daycare of you helping your mom or caring for other kids that you think influenced your decision to get into teaching and working with youth?


Alana Principe (01:49):
Yeah, there’s, there’s been a couple, there’s been some, I honestly, the biggest one I know just from like my own childhood is whenever my mom had kids in our house at our home daycare, I was always the one fighting to be the teacher role when we play school.


Sam Demma (02:04):
Cool.


Alana Principe (02:05):
So my mom always reminds me that, yeah, this is, this is what you want it to do since you were five years old, you know, you needed that role. And then when I actually worked in, in daycare and Ajax, I I just remember working with the school age kids and sitting down to read Harry Potter with them or helping them with their schoolwork after school. Always just felt exciting and fun. And I felt like I was making a difference for those kids, just reading the book for them and making it enjoyable, which was nice. That’s awesome.


Sam Demma (02:41):
That’s awesome. And then you started taking the educational classic path once you got into university. What did that look like? Tell me more about that experience.


Alana Principe (02:52):
Yeah, so that was that was good. It was fun. It was really fun. I, I did my undergrad at Queens university and I took drama and English. Nice. I felt those were two two majors that really complimented each other. You know, you’re performing all day. You’re getting used to speaking in public creating skits that you’re going to, you know, do with friends, you’re working with so many different people in creating shows I felt would be huge a huge benefit when working in the classroom.


Sam Demma (03:25):
Nice.


Alana Principe (03:26):
And then of course, English, I always just think when I’m writing report cards or writing emails to parents, I’m like, oh, you know, here are my little tips and tricks from English English courses in university, which have been very beneficial. And then I did my four years of undergrad before going to do my B bachelor of education at U O I T in OWA. Nice. Now they call Ontario tech. Yep. Also showed out to them great school and just, they were obviously very tech based early on. Yeah. So, so we got to work with coding. We got to create online websites and, and virtual PowerPoints and classrooms that then when COVID hit and I got to teach online, it was basically like, pick me, take me, I can do it


Sam Demma (04:15):
Scrolling through your Twitter. You know, it’s not gonna find videos of you doing like virtual and dances and stuff, which is so awesome. How do you personally, every day fill up your cup. So when you go to school, you show up as this like bright super optimistic teacher that has such a positive impact on your students.


Alana Principe (04:38):
You know what I think I’ve been to doing this for four years now, which, which has been really exciting. And I do truly remind myself every morning when I’m standing up in front of the classroom or I’m standing up online to teach those kids. This was your dream. You are literally living it. Mm. So every morning, even from like the first day, I started four years ago, when I would up and write that morning message or the date, I would just kind of turn, reflect at my class before the students got there. And just think that you’re, you’re aware you need it to be you, you got here. Mm. And that’s the biggest thing just for me to remind myself that this is what you want it to do and you’re doing it right. I think a we spend most of our time working in our life all day, every day. So it’s so important to enjoy what you do. And I just feel so grateful to be one of those people.


Sam Demma (05:33):
Yeah.


Alana Principe (05:34):
And honestly just my students, the families, like, you know, obviously you have your hard challenging days, but to listen to their stories about what they did the night before, or to get a peek and they get to like, ask me what they’re eating or take, you know, share their share their stories or their artwork. It makes such a, such a difference. And I really enjoy just being with them.


Sam Demma (06:00):
That’s awesome. And did you ever have any doubts or you were going through university and it was like, yes, yes, yes, yes. I’m doing this.


Alana Principe (06:12):
Yeah. It was pretty much like, yes, we’re doing it. You’re here. Keep going. Obviously. I mean, some of the courses were hard writing English essays studying all night. That was difficult. Yeah. But I knew it would lead me to being in a classroom. Which I loved even just the experience, like, because I didn’t take ConEd, I just took an undergraduate degree. I made sure to volunteer at schools. I was always going into a school after my courses to just help and be with other kids again, to make sure like, this is what you actually want to do. Which I think made a big difference.


Sam Demma (06:51):
I wanna focus on that for a second because I think volunteering is so important. I talk about it a lot with students, you know, we started pick waste and, you know, encourage kids to come pick up the garbage, but from a practical career lens, it’s just as important. You can reach out to somebody who’s living and working in a career. You’re interested in ask to shadow them for free. And most of the time, if you try enough and ask enough people you’ll get the opportunity to do so. So what was that experience like for you? And would you recommend other educators who are considering this profession do the same and why?


Alana Principe (07:30):
Yeah, so I would say volunteering always so beneficial, right? It’s just a way to give back. I think, especially people who might not be able to financial donate into things. If you can spend an hour here or there with your time, it’s, it’s just as beneficial, right. It’s gonna help those people. When I was at school in Kingston, I would work at some schools that just were more challenging behavior wise. So as a university student, it was, you know, fresh eyes of fresh body that would come in and work with kids. It made a difference for them because they just had more one-on-one time, which sometimes is impossible in the classroom. And then it also just made a difference for me because I got that experience. So although it was unpaid work, I knew what the classroom looked a like early on, before even starting teaching.


Alana Principe (08:23):
I knew all the different bodies that would be in a classroom and you know, how teachers can navigate. So even though I wasn’t getting paid to be there, it helped me. It helped shape who I am today, helped shape, who I teach. And then I think it’s so beneficial for are other teachers going into teaching, trying, because you’re getting the experience. You know, you’re opening doors up that when a principal asks you in an interview, how did you deal with a problem? You have solid experience to back up your proof. And then you feel confident. You feel good, you feel confident. You’ve been doing it for years. You, you know, what’s up, you know how to do it. But I think it opens so many more doors. You know, teaching’s competitive, teaching’s hard to get in. They only have to so many positions where I pretty much was able to walk into a permanent role because I had a lot of experience and volunteer experience to back up what I was doing.


Alana Principe (09:29):
Principals knew me. Other teachers knew me. They recognized me at school because I’ve been there. I’ve been in volunteering. I’ve been spending my time. I think if it’s for teaching, when principals see you in a school, volunteering, unpaid, they know you care. They know you wanna be there and it’s gonna reflect once you do get paid for your job. So, you know, they, they trust me to be the person that’s gonna do an extracurricular activity. They trust me to be that person to coach after school. Yeah. because I’ve done it and they see it. Right.


Sam Demma (10:03):
Cool. And you had this experience, you finished your degree, did the bachelor’s and then how was that first year like for you? I think what’s really unique about this conversation is you’ve been teaching for four years, which can feel like a long time, but you probably gonna be teaching for so much longer. See, but you have a very fresh perspective of what it’s like teaching right now. And probably a unique perspective versus some of the other educators I’ve spoken to. So what was year one? Like, and how’s it going year one?


Alana Principe (10:34):
I reflect back on that a lot because I really, as I did not know what I was doing in year one, I’m like who lesson planned for me who wrote those report cards?


Alana Principe (10:47):
Honestly looking back, like my kids were safe, the classroom was smooth. We had fun. I did the job. Hmm. Did I know how to properly lesson plan? Probably not. Did I know how to professionally write the best report cards? I don’t think so, but I guess I did. Right. Just because I look back now four years later and I have so much more experience in practice that it, it, honestly, it feels was, it was a couple years ago and, and so much has changed in these past few years. Right. I think in year one, I was more alone. I would say I didn’t reach out as much to other teachers. I didn’t wanna work with grade partners. I just kind of wanted to be in my room and, and plan and work. And I just shut the door, which isn’t always the best thing when you’re a young new teacher, because take the resources, take the support. Like now I’m knocking on everyone’s door being like, gimme your resources. What are you doing in math today? And FaceTiming colleagues, if we can’t meet up in person to make sure we’re, you know I work with a colleague in grade one. We both make sure we’re on the same plan for math and we’re working together and it looking now it feels so good to work with someone and have that adult connection, which I don’t think I really had in my first year,


Sam Demma (12:12):
What it shifted. Why did you decide in your second year? I need to start asking for help. Was, did someone come and tap you on the shoulder and kind of say, Hey, you have the opportunity to reach out to other teachers or did you start to realize there is this awesome network and I should start leveraging it and building cool relationships with colleagues.


Alana Principe (12:32):
Yeah. I, you know what I think the school I was at, it was a smaller school. Once I went in there in sec, in my second year, smaller school, all the teachers knew each other and worked together and I was this fresh young meet coming through. Yeah. And they took me under their wing. They were so supportive. They would reach out with old binders and worksheets and storybooks to fill my classroom I’m with. And they would check up on me. I would be in the staff room. They would come and check up on me, ask me how I’m doing photo. I remember a few of the teachers would photocopy a poem or a prayer and slide it under my door and say, like do this with your kids today. And it, it was kind of that little push to be like, Hey, we’re here for you. We, we wanna support you. And it’s where I saw, like, you know, this is a community we’re all working together to better the lives of these students in our school.


Sam Demma (13:23):
That’s amazing. And that first year a little stressful, but you said something that stuck out to me, the first thing you said was the students in my class were safe. Whether you realize it or not, that’s such a foundational need for young people. Why do you think that’s the first thing you said? And how do you build a classroom? That’s a safe space or where students feel safe.


Alana Principe (13:50):
Yeah. That’s that’s a challenging one for sure. It’s when I focus on all the time, that first week of school, it’s I tell parents right away, you know, we’re putting academics aside and we’re focusing on your kids’ safetyness happiness and mental health really. It’s something definitely in the past two years, we’ve been focusing on a lot more than usual little check-ins how they’re doing, how they’re feeling because we’re going through a pandemic, right? So sometimes academics will take a little bit of a, a slip, but I have to make sure those kids are happy and safe. I always think of it as do students need to feel comfortable in your classroom before they learn anything. Hmm. Right. If they’re not happy and they’re not feeling good, they’re, they’re gonna zone out they’re they don’t wanna be there. So I really make a point in that first couple weeks of school to let them know, I care for them.


Alana Principe (14:43):
I’m there for them. And this is a community. It’s a safe space. We can talk about how we feel or we need a break. You can take a break, right. You can go to a little calm down center and, and have your time. If you need alone time, maybe you don’t have that at home. Hmm. And so I think, especially like now with, with students, I want them to know that we care about them as, as people, right. Or are going through challenging times in that first couple weeks to kind of solidify the safetyness or even just getting students comfortable. I always make a point to tell them that they can make mistakes. They can mess up. They can say something silly. Right. And no, one’s gonna laugh at you. No, one’s gonna question you. And every day I’m always telling kids, take a risk, you know, ask that question or answer that question.


Alana Principe (15:36):
Even if you mess up, who cares? I mess up every day and it just makes the students, I think, feel normal and human, and it’s good. Cuz it opens up so many conversations. They ask the best questions and they answer any math question. You give them, they will answer and it could be totally off or totally wrong. And they’ll throw out an answer and I’m like, yeah, you did it. Tell me how you got there and they’ll explain me their steps. And then I can really get into their brain. And they’re like, all right, this is what they were thinking. As opposed to them being quiet it and silent. And then I don’t know if they really knew anything.


Sam Demma (16:17):
Yeah.


Alana Principe (16:18):
So I think just giving them that safe platform where they know they can use their voice. Right. Mess up as much as you want. Even when I mess up in the classroom, I’m like, look, I just messed up. Now you can do. And they, they feel like they’re just normal ha you know, having having a connection with their, their friends and it’s becoming a community. And I think even going off of that, especially online that just getting them comfortable, we dance, we act, we sing, we do everything. And I tell them, you know, they’re all singers, they’re all dancers and we could be falling over It’s okay. They’re having fun. I watch all their little smiles. I’m like we had a good day. Yeah.


Sam Demma (17:07):
That’s so awesome. I was gonna ask you, how have you leveraged the school experience and drama, but basically just answered the question. Does every day feel like you’re on stage?


Alana Principe (17:20):
Yeah. You know what more so now, because I still teach virtually. And so parents are watching you, grandparents are watching you, siblings are watching you. And you know, I just go in there and I’m like, we’re singing, we’re dancing. I’m messing up playing guitar times. And you know, it’s my drama degree coming in handy. Cuz if you mess up, you just keep going with the flow.


Sam Demma (17:43):
That’s awesome.


Alana Principe (17:44):
Don’t stop.


Sam Demma (17:45):
Yeah. You, you mentioned the importance of mentors leaning on other colleagues knocking on their doors. Have you found any other resources helpful, whether it’s tools, books, technology, programs, courses, anything else along your own journey that you’ve leaned on as a resource or things that you use in your class that you think another educator could benefit from learning about or going through?


Alana Principe (18:09):
Yeah. There are so many I think Twitter’s like a more recent one I’ve gone into, which I just love because for those teachers that do use it, obviously we’re posting our highlights on there. Yeah. But it’s a great one to connect. I go look at other primary teachers, specifically ones who teach kindergarten or grade one and I can kind of pull from their ideas and see what they’re doing and what worked and then how I wanna bring it into my own classroom. So that one, I really like, it’s good because you can kind of gear it based on your searches yeah. To what you’re teaching.


Sam Demma (18:42):
Cool.


Alana Principe (18:43):
Yeah. So I really like that. And I think other resources, I feel like there’s so many, but there’s a lot like YouTube videos that you can kind of watch if other teachers post their videos of how they’re teaching. I like watching those or skimming through them and then pulling from their ideas. For example, in math or teaching how to add to my little grade ones. And so I look online, you know, how many different ways can I teach them this? Right? Like I have my one or two ways, but what are other teachers doing that students might have learned from? And then that way, when I go to teach it, I’m teaching them five different ways that they can pull from one way that they enjoy the most.


Sam Demma (19:28):
Two great resources. And not to mention you’re also on Twitter, where can people connect with you if they wanna reach out?


Alana Principe (19:36):
Yeah. My Twitter is Ms. Principe.


Sam Demma (19:39):
Cool. Very cool. Yeah. And what do you think are some of the challenges that education has been faced with over the past two years? And how have you, or have you seen other people try to overcome those challenges?


Alana Principe (19:55):
I think education, I mean the biggest one, obviously we’ve gone online. Yeah. And it’s, it’s working for some unfortunately it’s not working for all. I’m really proud of my board actually Hal and Catholic. We’ve created our own virtual school. They’ve created their own identity. It has a, a name. And it’s just felt like a very equitable, safe space. So it’s been two it’s on its second year now. But the principles to kind of overcome some of the challenges with which I think would be, you know, all these kids are thrown into one classroom. Yeah. And you don’t know what they have at home. Right. We assume they have some sort of laptop or device that they can be online. But then when I do math, do they have the manipulatives? When I do a craft, do they have construction, paper and scissors? Where this year our principals actually created these bags full of manipulatives and, and tools, school supplies.


Sam Demma (20:55):
Oh wow.


Alana Principe (20:55):
For free. And if parents wanted their student, their children to have it, they just had to sign up to a, for a meeting time drive to the closest school and pick up these bag of goodies. Which I thought was absolutely so amazing because it gave a chance for every student to have the same materials in the classroom. So now when I do my math lesson, pretty much all of my kids have these bags. So when I do a math lesson, I’ll say like, grab your green cubes or grab or blue ones. And they all can take it out and have it. Our school supplies, right. They all have now scissors, they have glue, they have paper, they have notebooks. Yeah. And it’s so amazing because no one’s standing out anymore that they don’t have something. Right. It, it feels like we’re back in that school atmosphere where we try to give all the students the same resources and the same opportunities.


Alana Principe (21:55):
So I like that because I mean, it’s challenging when you, I try to be so equitable, right. When we’re doing a craft, if you don’t have this material, you know, pull, pull from here, here, you’re, you’re giving them five different ideas to pull from where now our principals have really helped support us in a way that here your students have this bag, let like you’re let them use it. So that’s that’s really helped. And then I think, I mean, another thing I find challenging, I think the parents just need support because I mean, I feel for them, them they’re working behind me right. All day. I hear their voices when I’m on video with their families. And you know, they’re sometimes there helping their kid cut and paste or helping their kid count. They’re that extra support that I have loved working with for the past two. I think I really make a point with my families to connect with them, to help just to show them I’m thankful for them. But also we work as a team because they’re at home now being very hands on with their kids. Yeah. So I think it’s been challenging for them in the education world because they’re having to work four or five jobs now.


Sam Demma (23:12):
Not to imagine you have to have like two or three kids in the same, in the same grade.


Alana Principe (23:16):
Some of them do, we’ll be having dance parties. I’m like just bring your other kids in, have them going.


Sam Demma (23:22):
That’s so awesome. Yeah. And you kinda, yeah. You touched on some good points and you kind of already answered this question, but if you could give year one self advice, you know, based off what you’ve learned and experienced now over the past four, what would you tell your younger self or another educator who’s just getting into education.


Alana Principe (23:43):
I think I would tell myself that you cannot keep enough notes marking for the report card.


Sam Demma (23:52):
Yeah. Nice.


Alana Principe (23:53):
Write down all the observations, write down all the feedback. And then honestly just reach out, like knock on people’s doors, you know, be comfortable talk to your colleagues, get your resources and do it early on because you’re new. You have an excuse. Yeah. So ask those questions and take those resources. And honestly, like if people wanna give you resources, just accept them and keep them. Because I mean, I was given a resource about two years ago and I pulled it out this year for the first time, but it’s, you know, I think back and I say like, thank you know, thank goodness I took that, that duing of, of work as it’s helped.


Sam Demma (24:38):
It’s so funny. You never catch a student saying that. Thank you so grateful. I took this DOE of work home. Yeah. But this has been awesome. You mentioned your Twitter hand already. If someone wanted to reach out and send you an email is there an email you could also share where people could reach you?


Alana Principe (24:54):
Yeah. You could use my, my board email: alanaprincipe@hotmail.com


Sam Demma (25:04):
Awesome. Well, yeah, Alana, thanks again so much for coming on the show. It’s been a pleasure chatting with you and keep singing baby shark to your classes and keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.


Alana Principe (25:16):
Yeah. Thank you so much. Thanks for giving me a platform to to speak a little bit.


Sam Demma (25:21):
Of course.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Alana Principe

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 14, 2022 by Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Greg McLean – Principal of Sacred Heart Catholic School in Bruce Grey County

Greg McLean - Principal of Sacred Heart Catholic School in Bruce Grey County
About Greg McLean

Greg McLean (@WalkertonGreg) has been in the educational field for the past 28 years as a teacher, school administrator and instructor for Niagara University and Catholic Principals Council of Ontario. Greg has worked in 9 schools and in 3 different school boards and is currently the principal of Sacred Heart, Mildmay after a year of being the principal of St Isidore Virtual School, the first-ever virtual school in Bruce-Grey Catholic District School Board!

Greg graduated from Laurier with a Certificate in Positive Psychology this past year and also obtained a certification as a Life and Wellness Coach. He is also a musician (drummer, vocals and guitar) and has performed live over 300 times in a variety of venues over the past 20 years. Greg is also a community-minded individual who embraces volunteerism- being a member of the local Optimist Club and a volunteer at the food bank, Victoria Jubilee Hall and Special Olympics. Greg also advocates for individuals with Down Syndrome- helping others to see their abilities.

Greg has been married to his wonderful partner Jayne for 26 years and has three children, Abby, Lucas and Dashiel. The family resides in beautiful Walkerton, ON.

Connect with Greg: Email | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Catholic Principals Council of Ontario

Laurier Certificate in Positive Psychology

A Slice of Brockton (Greg’s Podcast)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Greg, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today from Brockton start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about who you are?


Greg McLean (00:10):
Well, my name is well, first of all, thank you for introducing me as a high performing educator. That’s awesome. My, my name is Greg McLean and I work as a principal in the Bruce Gray Catholic district school board. I reside in the town of Walkerton that sits in Brockton. So Brockton’s municipality and Walkerton’s a town in there. The same Walkerton that endured that water crisis back in 2000 best water in Ontario, right? This is what we say. And I’ve been in education. This is, is my 29th year and I’ve been a principal for the past 15. So we’re looking at about a 50 50 split and I’ve got a family. My wife Jane is a guidance counselor at sacred heart high school. I have three children, well adult children now. My oldest is 24 and resides in, in Guelph and is working time. Yay. And my middle child, my son is 22 residing at Toco. And my youngest boy is 16 years old and he’s in grade 11 at the local high school at sacred heart where my wife works.


Sam Demma (01:14):
That’s awesome. Very cool. And as educators, we always preach the importance of lifelong learning. There’s never a day you stop learning. And I understand that you’re someone who, when the COVID initially hit, took it upon yourself to actually obtain more education. Can you please explain how that process unfolded and what you set out to learn and achieve?


Greg McLean (01:36):
Well, sure. First of all, yeah, like lifelong learning. I think if you’re in the education world, you’re forced with lifelong learning, but I don’t wanna use the word force because I’m thinking that the vast majority of people who get into education are, are lifelong learning by choice. And whether it’s a course an AQ course so that you can teach a different course or it’s something that’s just something you’re really interested in. We, we, we kind of attract those, those people. It it’s actually a character, character strength to have a love of learning. And it’s actually a Catholic graduate expectation, lifelong learner. So yeah. Putting all those together. Yeah. Like during the pandemic, I mean, it was really, really easy for people to get down and to get you know, that sense of being you know, I don’t, I’m gonna say hopeless, but cabin fever.


Greg McLean (02:25):
But just knowing like what, what do you do to, to feel good in this and, and mentally well, and I think one of those things that you can do and that I’ve learned is that, you know, obviously part of self-care is, is, you know, having hobbies and things that you can do. And so part of the spirit of my lifelong learning as I kind of went back to school and I got a certificate Laia university in positive psychology which is kinda the study of all the stuff I just talked about. Yeah. And spent the year learning about how to live your best life knowing that your best life isn’t avoiding stress and avoiding problems. It’s actually how to deal with them in a really healthy way, because that’s the price of admission, right? Discomfort’s the price of admission. You just have to learn how to, to, to manage it and, and to, to thrive as opposed to, you know, just languishing. So, and then just this past year, I worked on getting my life and wellness certification coach. So I’m gonna try to at all those things together and you know, kind of push that forward and, and hopefully serve serve my community and the people around me.


Sam Demma (03:26):
That’s amazing. When you say positive psychology how do you explain that to somebody or like when, when you use that term, what does it mean?


Greg McLean (03:37):
Well, I guess there is a catch phrase. I, I kind of used it before. It’s like the study of use of living your best life, like how to live your best life. So that’s how you kind of boil it down. I think there’s psych, when you think about psychology, you might think about what’s wrong with you. Right. But cause of psychology is the study of what’s right with you. Ah, and it’s so much right with us and it’s also about mindset. So the good news is that in the education world, I was able to bring that perspective in the course at all times to say, you know what, I’m really affirmed right now because some of this stuff that I’m learning about, we’re actually doing like the Mo the positive you know, mindset work by Carol Dweck. Right. How important that mindset is in, in resilience and overcoming adversity.


Greg McLean (04:21):
I mean, we’re talking about that right now. Right. We’re back into another adverse moment. So you know what, where’s your mindset. And I mean, let’s not be Pollyannaish here, right? Like pandemic’s a pandemic and job loss and job loss and, and, and, and sickness and illness and death. Aren’t, aren’t positive things, but it’s like a acknowledging that, and it’s okay to not be okay, but what can you do to get out of being not okay? And you can, and we are all, we’re all skilled and we’re all gifted that way. We just sometimes just don’t know it.


Sam Demma (04:52):
And it’s obvious you have a passion for learning, teaching, sharing, which makes you a phenomenal person to get into the vocation of education. How did you, how did you determine you wanted to become a teacher when you were a kid and someone asked you, Greg, what do you wanna be when you grow up? Did you always say a teacher, a principal, someone in education, or how did you discover this path?


Greg McLean (05:14):
Say, I don’t know anybody who starts by saying they wanna be a principal. I don’t know. I don’t know about that. Well, you know, it’s funny because my, I feel like my life has been very serendipitous in the sense that I don’t, I don’t think like some other people, they just have a life track and they’ve got this vision about what they want to do. And, and although as a kid, I do remember getting satisfaction from teaching someone, something, whether it’s a, a skill or something like, you know, you’re working together of the group of kids and you’re one of the kids and those kids get it cuz of something you did or said, and there’s, there’s immense joy and satisfaction in that. And, and certainly obviously that resides in me somewhere because I wouldn’t have gone the root of, of, of, of being a teacher. I disappointed my mom. You know, I think for about three weeks when I was in grade three, I did declare I was thinking about being a priest being in the priesthood. But as I said, that was a three week three week dream and, and with a broken dream for my mom she wanted grandkids.

Greg McLean (06:11):
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that’s what I said. The good news is you got grandkids out of it. Right. and so yeah, like, I mean, going through high school, same, the same thing, right? It’s this niggling thing at the back of your head? I don’t think I was necessarily convinced that that that’s what my, my pathway was. I certainly liked music. I’ve always liked music. And my life, my, my career journey basically is a mesh of, of, of music and, and of, of like leadership and of teaching. Like it all kind of, kind of coalesced and, and again, it evolves and, and, and sometimes it’s, you’re taking specific steps towards it. And other times, again, as I said, it’s serendipitous things just appear before you, but if you were talking to my wife, she’s, she wouldn’t say things don’t just appear, you manifest them with your thinking. So I give her a huge shout out Jane, because certainly from my, the lifelong learning thing, I mean, yep. I can take certain courses, but, but she’s got a real pension for this mind, body spirit avenue that I’m kind of going in towards knowing that it’s of such a benefit to, to everybody.


Sam Demma (07:11):
That’s amazing. I couldn’t agree more. So explain the path that you did take and how you did end up where you are today.


Greg McLean (07:23):
Well I love to say that, oh, I mean, I have heritage a hundred percent heritage in Newfoundland. I’m a, I’m a, a Newfoundlander by heart, but I wasn’t born there. Yeah. I, I basically from my beginnings of being schooled and living in, in Georgetown, not too, not too far away from Pickering you know what, I always have been a believer in. I’ve always gone to Catholic school. I’ve always been a believer of, of the Catholic schools. My parents have been people have always promoted cause I have to pay actually tuition in high school to continue to go to a, to a Catholic school. But, but basically my, my journey into high school where I loved music and I, I loved, I guess I had, again, I set that pension somewhere in there for teaching all came together because eventually as I applied to teachers college, I got accepted and moved to Bruce Gray, moved to Walkerton.


Greg McLean (08:20):
It was a call I got from a superintendent in the middle of, of August looking for a music teacher. Now, I’ll be honest with you. I love music, but I don’t, I don’t have a music background in terms of a degree. I played the drums. I played the drums in the school band, Cardinale school band in the, in the mid to, to late eighties. And and I guess that, that superintendent happened to be my vice principal at the time said, oh, band equals music teacher, which it, it doesn’t really, I mean, it opened the door, but I mean, the first, first little bit was a struggle. And I, I never actually saw myself as a music teacher until probably about four or five years after the fact where I’m going. I, I had that realization that moment where I’m going, I am right, because before I was either thinking I’m gonna get out of this, or I don’t know enough about this, but somehow through self-teaching and absorption.


Greg McLean (09:10):
And the fact that the kids were so excited to learn an instrument, like kind of pushed me to learn it. And then, you know, we had bands and we were going to music festivals and we were doing quite well, and I’m going, you know what, I teach grade seven, eight, but I am a music teacher. And I was really proud of that because that’s unlike math or science or, or, you know art or, well, art, I’m gonna keep art of that. But these are, those are passions of, I think the mind and music is of the heart and, and to be able to have that it’s a real gift to see kids get that gift and to be excited about teaching music. So somehow that ended up me getting a job teaching at Bruce Gray Catholic district school board. And you know, what about halfway through the career? About 15 years later, it became a principal and, and in leadership and that’s a different story.


Sam Demma (09:55):
Of course. So your journey was slightly unexpected. When you were thinking about, you know, getting into jobs in the workforce what was the other options on your mind? Like what the other things you were thinking about?


Greg McLean (10:13):
That’s a good question. We won’t count the grade three example. What we, I actually thought about music production. So I actually was accepted at haw college for music production. Wow. I also thought fleetingly about being a pilot. Oh, wow. And but those two are the kind of the areas coming out of grade 11 and grade 12 that I kind of thought of. And you know, it’s like a lesson to, to people maybe listening if they’re in high schools, like I avoided physics because I thought it would be too hard and I didn’t really give myself a chance. And and because I didn’t take the physics meant I didn’t take other courses. And therefore kind of that pilot thing kind of was chosen out for me. Right. And that’s too bad because I mean, we don’t live in, we don’t live in regret, but I’m thinking that that was a, a pathway that was shut down because I shut myself down and, and I, I would’ve been able to do it.


Greg McLean (11:09):
Right. I think about my, my head self now is like, no, Greg, you would’ve been able to do that. Like, don’t sell yourself short. Right. So those are some of the other areas I, I would was I was certainly thinking about, and of course, and, and teaching, and, you know, back to a conversation earlier, before the recording started Sam, like you talked about, you know, even now, like no one I think gets into the business, wanting to be a principal when you start in an education, maybe some people, but, but it’s, as you go along, it’s, it’s the, the higher level view of what you want for kids that are around you in the school, around you. Whereas a classroom teacher, you are, you are responsible for those 25 or 30 kids in that, you know when you begin to look at the higher view of all the kids and the building and the, the you know, how well people are and how much fun people and how, how people are learning is when you start going, okay, well maybe that’s where maybe that’s my, in my sphere of influence needs to be beyond 25 people, but 300 or 400 people.


Sam Demma (12:07):
Yeah. And, you know, you mentioned not shutting yourself down for potential opportunities. It’s not only relevant to people in high school, closing yourself off. I think it’s relevant to all human beings, whether you’ve been teaching for 50 years or not, there might be something you wanna do. And if your mind talks you out of it, there’s 0% chance it’s gonna happen. So I think it’s, it’s an important lesson for all on the topic of you know, things that are helpful, pieces of advice, mindset shifts. What have you found beneficial in helping you show up as your best self in your day to day job at school? Are there any books, resources, programs you’ve went through that helped you as an educator or someone that worked in schools?


Greg McLean (12:56):
I don’t know if there’s been one resource. And as I had mentioned, like there were some of the things that we were doing in schools for a long, for a little while now, at least for 10 or 12 years, if not longer, that help with that kind of positive psychology, we were calling it positive psychology with the kids, like the fact that we do guided meditations with, with kids. Yeah. And we do mindfulness with kids and, you know you know, we talk about mindset and those sorts of things. That’s been helpful for me as well, because not only am I learning about as an adult to help the kids, but I’m learning about it as an adult to help myself. Yeah. So that work all the way through. Now we’re, we’re a little bit more fortunate than say 20 years ago where we didn’t have the same mental health support 20 years ago.


Greg McLean (13:38):
I don’t know if we needed, had the same mental health need. I don’t, I don’t have the data on that, but the fact that I work with professionals who are in the, in the you know, the know about these things is also incredible. I’ve learned a little, like a lot about that. And certainly just a speaking with my wife today about a, a new book that I’d really like to read that Torene brown has just released. And she talks about emotions. I think it’s something about Atlas of emotions or something like that. Don’t quote me on that. I’m gonna look it up, but it’s really fascinating cuz she talks about 87 emotions and I’m thinking and she says that, you know, most adults can only name that they’ve experienced three or four emotions. And to know that there are 87 and what do you do with that information?


Greg McLean (14:17):
The fact that you know yourself that way, and you’ve got that language and then how does that, how does that benefit you? Right. So there’s always things there’s always things to learn and kind of the pathway kinda opens up as you go, right? Like it’s like, you’ve got this flashlight and you’re seeing as far as the flashlight can go, but that the outer edge of the flashlight it’s still opening up for you. Right. So it’s, it’s good stuff. I’ve been very fortunate to be in education because I can’t imagine how much less I would know if I wasn’t in education.


Sam Demma (14:43):
Yeah. So true education is a, a seed planting career, a seed planting vocation sometimes, you know, your actions plant a seed in somebody else who you may never realize the growth of you. They may be far gone out of the school building when you see the growth happen, but sometimes the seeds you plant and a student and a staff member and we that we plant in each other, you have the opportunity to see it grow and flourish in front of, and it’s really spectacular and cool. And it’s a very fulfilling feeling when you think of the students who you’ve seen grow and transform over the past 29 years and all different schools you’ve been in. Are there any stories that come to mind of a student who first came and wasn’t their best set or striving to live their best life and, and somehow had a transformation. And if you do, would you be willing to share this story?


Greg McLean (15:39):
Yeah. I might speak in some generalities as opposed to like naming anyone, but of course from, from an elementary school standpoint, I, I mean, that’s a really great stance to have is to know that you’re potentially planting a seed. And you’re not gonna, you may not see that. And that’s the, that’s the faith piece because you, you, you, you are doing what you can in grade one. Like people might remember the grade one teacher, but they’re not gonna remember the content. They’re not gonna remember all the songs that they sang. They’re gonna remember that. So, and so was a love, loving, caring person. That’s a pretty good seed to plant love care. The virtues, you know, like those things are super important and the importance of relationship, but, but when you run into students and you see them three or four, like, okay, so for me, we’re in a small area kind of a rural area.


Greg McLean (16:31):
And we recycle a lot of, of our grads back into education, which I think I, I take as like a real feather in the cap for what we’re doing because we, a lot of our young teachers and EAs and support people are people that were students. And now I’ve been in it long enough that they’re coming back as students and they’re coming back as employees. So I have a co you know, I have people on staff who’ve, I’ve, I’ve worked with or worked with their parents. Oh. Or I’ve known their parents. And, and thinking back to what that student, when, and I’ve been primarily a grade seven, eight teacher when I was teaching to think about the kids that struggled and then finding out that a couple of ’em own their own businesses. A couple of them you know, work at Bruce power here locally, which is, you know, a great, a great career to have.


Greg McLean (17:13):
And, and thinking that, you know, at the time, maybe in the back of your mind, you were thinking, wow, what’s this guy, what’s this person gonna do. Right. Like, I, you know, you don’t see that, but that’s a back of your mind thing. And if you keep in the front of your mind at all times that, you know, it’s a work in progress. And what you’re seeing now is like a brushstroke and the painting’s not done. Yeah. That has to keep, and you have to keep reminding yourself of that because there are times you’re going to come up against some challenging, challenging behaviors and, and, and, you know, and people, who’ve got some life circumstances working against them, but that’s what education’s all about. You know, Catholic education, that moral purpose, right? Like we’re here to kind of, even up the playing field. Right.


Greg McLean (17:50):
You’re I always say we’re here for all the kids, but we’re, we’re there for some, a little bit more than everyone. It’s like, kinda like an analogy of going to the doctor. Does everyone go to the doctor? No. and some people need a doctor more often than other people. Right. So you think of yourself in teaching an education as you go to the people that you need to bringing the faith piece back into, it was, you know, who did Jesus minister to like, wasn’t the rich and famous wasn’t the people who were doing well. It was people that weren’t so like, let’s, let’s emulate what we’re doing there in, in education. And, you know, I mean, it’s worked for me.


Sam Demma (18:21):
Yeah. I love the philosophies. Thanks for sharing. When you think of 29 years all the experiences you’ve gained, the people you’ve met, the people who have poured into you and helped you become the school leader you are today. If you could wrap it all up, it’s a hard question. Go back, walk into your first year of teaching, walk into that classroom, look at your younger, as he was doing his job. What advice would you give knowing what you know now and what the experience you have?


Greg McLean (18:59):
Wow. You’re right. That’s a good question. That’s hard. That’s a tough one. That’s, that’s a question I’m gonna include on my podcast, by the way that I’m gonna, if you could go back to your younger self yeah. You know what, that’s, that’s, that’s a great reflective, I think number one is to tell myself, you, you can do it, have faith in yourself. You’re resourceful. You’re whole, you’re talented. You’re you, you’re perfect as you are. And just embrace that and that lets you go, cuz I didn’t think so when I was first starting, right. I’m thinking, you know, you’re a confident which is again, maybe the, not a natural, but to know that, you know, you’re doing the best, you’re bringing the best. And if all your, if you’re bringing your best at every single moment, like, you know who you can be, then you have to take, you have to be happy with that and have be satisfied with that and be kind to yourself about it.


Greg McLean (19:48):
I think the other piece is, is, is the, is the kindness for other or love for others? And I certainly have come from evolve you know, evolved in my depth of understanding of what that looks like. And, and not just an education standpoint, but just in, in a relationship standpoint is, is, is knowing that if you’re, I always thought I was empathetic, but I think I I’ve grown my empathy. Knowing that you can’t always account for what people are bringing in behind them. And what you’re seeing is just face value and there’s so much more behind them that you don’t know about. And, and so don’t make assumptions and just, just, you know, love one and love them for who they are. And, and you don’t try not, you know, try to be like, not judgemental, I guess, or, or you don’t shut anyone down. Right. That’s I think that would be it like those open, maybe some like an open kind of vision towards all people.


Sam Demma (20:40):
Love it. Cool. And if someone is listening to this right now and was inspired, intrigued, curious to learn more, what would be the best way for them to reach out to you and get in touch? And by the time this comes out, you might even have your own podcast. So maybe they’re gonna reach out about that show also. So please share some contact information.


Greg McLean (21:00):
Okay, well contact information let’s start with email: gregmcle@icloud.com. You could also find me on Twitter at @WalkertonGreg and also I have a Facebook presence, just look up Gregory, J McClean. And I’d love to hear from people who’ve heard this and have a question or wanna talk to me about being a priest when they’re in grade three.


Sam Demma (21:29):
Sounds good, Greg. Thank you again for coming on the show. This was awesome. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.


Greg McLean (21:35):
Thanks very much for featuring this. And it was great to talk to you as well.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Greg McLean

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 9, 2022 by Experiential Learning Principals Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Karen Kettle – Retired Science Teacher, Speaker and Author of Countdown To Camp

Karen Kettle - Retired Science Teacher and Author of Countdown To Camp
About Karen Kettle

Karen Kettle is passionate about the power of student-led leadership programs. Throughout her career with the Durham District School Board, Karen has been a high school science teacher, a consultant, an international presenter, an author, and a course director for the York University Faculty of Education.

She has worked beside talented student leaders and dedicated colleagues to create and implement the Eastdale Eagles Leadership Camp and the Port Perry Rebels Leadership Camp. In retirement, Karen continues to explore new and creative pathways to share her love of leadership with the next generation!

Connect with Karen: Email

Personal note from Karen

Leadership Camp is a collaborative effort.  I would like to thank all of the people who are partners in making camp happen.

Camp Heads
Camp Committee Members
Team Leaders
Student Leaders
Parents/Guardians		Teachers
Camp & Club Advisors
Camp Program Staff
Secretaries & Custodians
Administrators
Sponsors  

A very special thank you goes out to the two camps that I have had the privilege of working with: Kilcoo Camp (Eastdale Eagles Leadership Camp) and Youth Leadership Camps Canada or YLCC (Port Perry Leadership Camp). Having talented camp staff to work with is priceless!

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Countdown to Camp (Karen’s Most Recent Book)
The book Countdown to Camp is available at volumesdirect.com for $20

Youth Leadership Camps Canada

Port Perry High School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:02):
Karen welcome to the High Performing Educator Podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about who you are and why you’re passionate about the work you do with youth.


Karen Kettle (00:15):
Okay. my name is Karen Kettle and I am a retired science teacher. I taught for 30 years in the Durham school board. And my passion outside of science education is working with students to run student-led leadership camps. And I’ve had the opportunity to do that twice. I worked with a group of kids at Eastdale and also at port Perry high school. And we ran camps for about 130 or 140 students from the school that were mainly student run. So that’s, that’s my leadership passion outside of the biology classroom.


Sam Demma (01:06):
What brought you to that passion? How did you discover it and why do you think it’s important that students get involved in camp?


Karen Kettle (01:15):
Well, I spent a lot of time at summer camp growing up. I first went to camp when I was nine years old and I really badly wanted to come home on visitor’s day. And my mom left me there crying on the dock and told me I would learn to like it. And after that I went back every summer to that camp and also to the Ontario camp leadership center at bark lake until I was well in my twenties. And when I decided that I wanted to become a high school teacher, I wanted to be able to bring the best of that camp, spirit, that transformative experience into my teaching career.


Sam Demma (02:04):
That is awesome. And what, what, what were the steps you took to start building camp? So I would imagine being involved in a camp as a student is a different experience than organizing a camp as an educator. What, what were the initial steps you started taking to build the camp and tell, yeah, tell me a little bit more about that process on how it turned into its its own thing.


Karen Kettle (02:30):
Well, I was very lucky when I got to Eastdale I knew the principal very well and he was a principal that was a camp director in the summertime. And the year before a very talented leader had started a student retreat as part of a course. And so they wanted to continue it and they were looking for someone else with camp experience, there were some great teachers involved with it. And so I joined their team and then we just started to increase the length of time. We took students away until we were up to a four day camp and involve all sorts of different students from the school, from all sorts of clubs, like student council and music council and meet and we and athletic council and all of the social justice clubs and geeks unlimited and the gay straight Alliance and the ambassadors and the environment club and the business club. And so it became sort of an umbrella training ground for student leaders in the school. So that was my, that was my first experience with leadership camp. And then when I left and went to port Perry high school, I started from scratch again.


Sam Demma (04:06):
And now you are a camp pro or a camp in ninja, or I don’t even know what to call it, but you, you you’ve built out so many supports for camp and encouraging students to get involved in camps and encouraging students to lead camps and encouraging educators to understand the importance of camp. You’ve even, you know, written books about it. One that’s very, you know, new and fresh. Can you share a little bit about what inspired you to write the book and also why you think student led leadership camps are also really important?


Karen Kettle (04:45):
Okay, well in working with students over the years one of the things that they use to say to me is I kind of know what we need to do, but I sort of need a checklist to get there. And so during the, a pandemic, because I had lots of creative alone time I sat down and tried to pull all of the collective wisdom together from all of the other advisors I’d worked with and camp heads and camp committee members and my colleagues and support staff and put it together just in a way that someone who had never run a leadership camp could pick it up and know that they could start with simple steps. And then as their school got more involved and the student leaders in the school got more involved, all they could build it into whatever it was that they wanted and needed for the school.


Karen Kettle (05:51):
I think student leaders are incredible role models for their peers because the camp committee, which works together all year to get camp ready by designing it and implementing it and, and running everything other than high ropes course and waterfront they are just that little bit better at, at some of the leadership skills than their peers. And so it’s kind of like if you’re an athlete and you wanna learn to get better at tennis, you don’t want to play against world champions. You wanna play against someone who’s just that little bit better than you are and makes you stretch your skills. So the senior students are great role models for their less experienced peers, cuz the kids can look at them and say, you know, in two or three years, that’s who I wanna be. That’s what I wanna do. And it also keeps the ownership of the camp program in the, in the school. It, they’re not going somewhere and having someone else run everything, they’re working with a camp staff to, to run a program and, and the program belongs to them.


Sam Demma (07:16):
That makes a lot of sense. And, and I think giving students a voice is so important because thinking back to the educators that made a big impact on my life, their class was more so a discussion than it was a lecture. And because I was given a voice, I was more interested in the content they were teaching and speaking about out. And if I was running or organizing an event, I would be more inclined to get involved and also to promote it to my friends and to get other students in the school involved. Because I, I feel like ownership and interest are kind of tied together. Something you do a great job at, in your book countdown to can a, is breaking down this idea that student leadership is a year long process. What do you mean by that? And what does it look like? Or what does a typical year of planning in a student leadership position look like?


Karen Kettle (08:17):
Okay. well what would happen is at the beginning of the year students would apply to be on camp committee and this would be a group of about 20 students that really wanna put in the time because it takes a lot of time. They, they meet once a week for an hour and a half or two hours as a group. And so they go through a, a process where they start off with lots of team building within their group and getting to know each other, figuring out who has what skills and who can bring music who can bring organization, who can bring humor to the group. And then we basically start through a process where we develop a theme which holds camp together. And some of our past themes have been things like Dr. Sue or Harry Potter or Beatlemania or clue.


Karen Kettle (09:26):
And so they have to brainstorm all sorts of different themes and come up with what it might look like. And we take a lot of time to make sure that all of the themes are, are really, really strong. And then we have a process, a decision making process that we go through to help them come to a consensus on theme. And then after that’s done, we start through the same process again, to trying to decide what workshops we’re going to put into camp. And that is one of the places where you can really tailor camp to your own individual school, because you can pick out knowledge elements that the kids in your are clubs might need, they might wanna learn something about emotional intelligence or mental health. You can pick out skills that they might wanna develop, like communication skills or delegation or creativity.


Karen Kettle (10:33):
You can work on some values like attitude or kindness, and then you can also look at issues like inclusion or consent or anti-bullying or environmental issues. And so that becomes the, the part of camp. That’s the learning part of camp. The, we would then organize students in the teams, workshop teams, and they’d pick from the ones that they’d brainstorm and they’d work to put together their interactive workshops. And then we get to plan all the fun things at camp. And those are things like campfires and large group games and talent shows banquet. So there’s, there’s a lot of organization that goes on throughout the year. We also do a lot of fundraising to make sure that we can support kids financially, who might not otherwise be able to attend and that’s kind of fund too, because there’s a lot of experiential learning in, in running a, a fundraiser.


Karen Kettle (11:45):
Quite often the camp committee takes on some other challenges at port Perry high school. We used to run a minicamp day for the grade eight that were gonna come to our school the following year and run through our workshops with them and just help them come into the high school and feel comfortable in the high school. So all of that goes on throughout the year. And the culminate activity is the three day or four day experience with a camp partner where we take somewhere between a hundred and hundred 40 kids from the school. And, and they get to share in the experience.


Sam Demma (12:31):
What do you think are some of the really positive outcomes on a school’s culture when students within that school participate in a camp experience?


Karen Kettle (12:44):
Well, there’s a lot of them because there there’s individual learning and individual development with the people, especially the people of who are on camp committee. There are the skills and knowledge that advisors can take back with their students in their own clubs and apply those. But also I think students find that it’s, it’s intrinsically rewarding to do something that is sort of in the service of others. And, and so there’s, there’s a, a good feeling there. You get a large group and, and that’s, what’s different about student led leadership camp rather than sending an individual student to a conference is that you come back with like a hundred kids that have shared the experience and that increases cooperation and trust among the students. It increases cooperation with staff cause once you’ve boosted your vice principal up onto the ropes course, or you’ve, you know, what had your principal walk the plank because he was the villain story.


Karen Kettle (14:03):
They come back with a different sense of understanding that, you know, that the teachers and administrators are, are people and they’re there to, to help. So you get this sort of shared vision of, of what you can do as a, as a team. If everybody works together student thoughts will meet and interact and live with students that they wouldn’t otherwise meet at school. And so it breaks down social barriers in the building. It there’s more cooperation between clubs because each club knows what the other club is doing and what their purpose is and why they’re there. And then the other thing I find is that student leaders, when they come back, they look for or understand the deeper meaning in some of the activities that they’re running at the school. So they might be running like something really fun and silly on a Friday, but they know that they’re doing it to build community. Yeah. And they know if they put together something on study skills that they know that they’re providing a, a service for other students in the building, or they, sometimes they do things like they’ll come back and put up a kindness tree or something like that. So they understand that there’s a deeper purpose behind all of the extracurricular activities that, that they’re doing.


Sam Demma (15:41):
And how do you go about selecting what students in a school would get to participate in a camp? I would imagine that’s probably one of the most difficult aspects because you want everyone to have the experience, but you might have a li limited budget and a limited amount of students that you can bring with you to these four, five-day experiences.


Karen Kettle (16:03):
Yes. Well, one of the things is that with leadership camps, again, because you can fine tune it to your school, different schools have slightly different selection criteria. But the way we’ve always gone about getting students is that any student who’s already involved in the leadership club in the school gets an invitation to go grade nine and 10 students who are involved go through that process, or they can also self nominate themselves. So if you have maybe a shy grade nine student, who’s not yet involved in anything, they can just fill out an application form for an invitation and they get an invitation. We all also have our teachers that teach a lot of grade nine and 10 students nominate students that they think would benefit from the experience. And some of our teachers are really good at that.


Karen Kettle (17:08):
Really seeing that, you know, the little kid at the back of the room, who’s got all sorts of energy, but no focus might actually benefit from camp because once they find that focus then, then they’re set. They know what they wanna do. We also go to our teachers and coaches and guidance department and special ed department and adminis and ask if they wanna nominate kids. Sometimes students who are a little bit at risk because they’ve just moved into the area or something has happened in their family life. And they might just need that really to be part of a really supportive group. Sometimes kids who are just sort of there after school all the time, cuz they don’t really have anywhere else to go will get those kinds of students that are nominated. And then it basically becomes a first come first serve basis. After everyone who is interested through those categories receives an invitation,


Sam Demma (18:23):
Got you. And something else. Okay. Oh, go ahead. Some,


Karen Kettle (18:27):
Okay. Some schools because they wanna have they want diversify between grade nines, tens elevens and 12 do first come first serve based on grade. Mm. We, we’ve never done that. And we normally find that about 50%, 60% of our camp is grade nines and tens.


Sam Demma (18:48):
Got you. You mentioned briefly fundraising and you also do an amazing job in your book providing, you know, literally a template that you use in terms of a sponsorship letter. How, yeah. Can an educator who’s listening to this that wants to run a camp. What should they be thinking about in terms of sponsorship, how do obtain it and also what the letter it should include that they’re thinking to send outside of obviously buying your booking, check, checking it out.


Karen Kettle (19:17):
Well sponsorships are a good way to go sometimes what our sponsors do is they just provide items. So for example, our, our camp committee would go down the main street of port Perry with a letter explaining that we’re raising money to provide scholarships for students who might not be able to afford to go to camp. And quite often they will give us, you know, small items like candy or a t-shirt or something from their, their business. And so we put those together into something like a a draw or a silent auction, something like that. So that’s one way of, of finding sponsorship ships. We’ve also had service groups who have provided us with money sometimes connected to a, a, a service. So we went and helped out with a pancake breakfast and that group donated some money to our, our camp scholarship fund.


Karen Kettle (20:30):
I think if you’re writing a sending a letter to organizations, it has to really clearly state what your, what your leadership camp is, how it serves people. We put down a breakdown of costs per individual student. And then we basically just said, you know, if you’d like to make a contribution, here’s the, the camp advisors contact information and it’s sort of a contribution of whatever they would like to make. And we just basically had a bank account and we put money in from that and from our fundraisers, cuz we like to do silly fundraisers. And then on our application form for parents, there was a little line that sort of said we know that economic are tough for people. If your son or daughter requires some financial assistance, please contact. And there was a camp advisor’s email.


Karen Kettle (21:38):
And then when we got in touch with the parent, we basically said you know, what can you afford to pay towards your child going to camp? And then we can cover the rest of it. And, and that worked really well because it let us spread out the funds among the, the students who really needed it. For me, that, that I came to that realization when I actually had a parent call me and ask if she could pay for her son’s best friend to go to camp. Mm. And until that time we had sort of been fundraising to lower the cost for everyone. And after that experience I realized that it was probably better to target the money because some parents could easily afford to send their kids. And for some parents it was prohibitive. Mm. So that’s why we came up with that idea of, of scholarship funds.


Sam Demma (22:41):
That’s amazing. Another great resource that I pulled out of your book. I know I’m referring to it a lot and it’s because it’s jampacked with great stuff, the workshop topics, that was a phenomenal section that you created that, you know, encapsulated dozens of ideas that people could think about presenting or even bringing in someone else to present at their camps. What are some of the ideas that you found the great success with or would recommend that someone who’s planning their first camp should include in the programming somewhere?


Karen Kettle (23:19):
Well workshops that that list of workshops came about because one of the, the issues when you’re working with young people on a camp committee is that the only work ups they’ve seen are the workshops that were presented the year before the, or the two years before. Mm. And so they, and so they kept reinventing the same workshop and just changing its name. And it was normally about pushing your comfort zone. And it got to the point it’s like, we pushed our comfort zone enough. We know now need actually to do something else because you really want to not repeat anything sort of within the four years that that’s students could be in the school because we have some students that go for four, for three or four years. And so what I did is I basically just sat down and wrote like little teaser for 99 different workshops.


Karen Kettle (24:21):
And I think, I don’t really think that there are any, that you are essential that you start with. I think it’s more about giving the kids a, a list of a whole bunch of different things they could do, and then letting them select the ones that they have, that they truly have an interest in. Mm. And quite often what we used to do is we let the camp, if we, if we needed, let’s say six workshops, we let the camp committee pick four. We let the camp heads pick one. And then the camp advisors pick one because they do tend sometimes depending on the, the group of kids to try and they sometimes stay away from some of the more difficult topics. And so sometimes you need a little bit a push in that direction. And then the other thing we did with workshops is that we to connect them to our theme.


Karen Kettle (25:30):
So for example, the year we did Harry Potter, the mental health workshop became defense against the dark arts. Ah, and, and the, when we did Dr. Suess, the environment workshop became Lorax lesson. Mm. So you want tie in and, and tie it to to the theme, but it also, it depends on what the school needs like, do they need to do something on anti-bullying? Do they need to do something on digital leadership? Because really it’s what you do as workshops is completely wide open, as long as you have a mix of some that are really thought provoking and, and some that are, that are fun. Hmm. And we also try to make sure that, you know, if one workshop focused on skits that maybe the next one was gonna focus on a craft activity, or it was gonna focus on some kind of debate or discussion so that when students went from workshop to workshop, they were interactive and they were different. And it wasn’t like they weren’t being talked to, they, they were very HandsOn and involved in, in act in activities that brought them to the point of what the workshop was about. Understand. I don’t know what the, that


Sam Demma (27:04):
Yeah, it does. I don’t think there’s a one size fits all option. I was just really intrigued and impressed by how many ideas you pulled together and was wondering kinda well in


Karen Kettle (27:15):
A lot of the ones in the book we’ve actually done. And, and students come in with very distinct interest. And they take you places that as an advisor, you never thought you would be going because they have an interest in that area that, that resonates with their peers.


Sam Demma (27:39):
And what’s also interesting is extracurricular activities are not only the beneficial for students, but they’re also beneficial for teachers, you know, teachers benefit from being involved. What do you think are some of the benefits of the extracurricular involvement for teachers?


Karen Kettle (27:58):
Well, I think that they brought a lot of a joy in, into my life. I, I love the time that I spent with students outside of the classroom, because it gives you a different opportunity to mentor young people and also to learn from them. As teachers, you get to pick your extracurriculars. So if you are interested in sports coaching, a sport is great. Poor Perry high school had a phenomenal music program. And there were like some of the kids that were in that music program will be musicians throughout their lives, either as a career or as a, as a, as a joy, just for personal growth. So you get to follow your passion as a teacher and you meet up with kids that are also interested in it, and that’s sort of where that mentorship relationship comes from, because it, when you have someone who, who has knowledge in an area and someone who wants knowledge in the same area then that becomes a rich experience.


Karen Kettle (29:16):
It also has tremendous impacts on your classroom. I can remember on a grade eight tour day, listening to someone outside of my classroom going, this is Mrs. Kell’s classroom. She teaches science. I had her in grade nine. I really liked her. And then she takes us to camp. Well, if you have that kind of advertisement going on, when the kids come to your classroom, the next year, they expect that they’re gonna enjoy it. And all sorts of management issues just never come through your door because they know that even if it’s not something they wanna do, they know that you’re are interested in students in the school and that you are willing to put time in outside of the classroom. And it’s fun. Some of the students that I’ve worked with over the year have become really good friends. Some of them have become colleagues because a lot of the skills you learn at leadership camp work really well in the classroom. And so I, I think it’s a, it has a, a huge impact on your enjoyment of your teaching career. Yeah, and, and for kids, it’s great because they really get to interact in something that they’ve chosen, that they have ownership of, and they meet a positive peer group there that has similar interests.


Sam Demma (30:59):
Hmm. Kinda agree more if so, is interested in learning more about camps, more about the work you’ve done, where can they one pick up a copy of your book and two, get in touch with you.


Karen Kettle (31:13):
Okay. If they wanted to pick up up a copy of the book, the easiest way to do it is right from the publisher and the way to do that would be to Google volumesdirect.com. Countdown to camp is listed there. And you can just purchase it from that website if they want to contact me my email address and I’d be happy to talk to people. My email address is Karenkettle@gmail.com.


Sam Demma (32:05):
Awesome. Karen, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, talking about camps, your experience teaching, and also being involved in student leadership. Keep up the amazing work. I look forward to staying in touch and watching your, you know, adventures and work evolve. Thank you so much.


Karen Kettle (32:24):
Well, okay. And thank you very much. It’s lovely to talk to someone who is actually putting leadership into action at a fairly young age. And it sounds like you’re doing a great job.


Sam Demma (32:43):
Thanks so much, Karen.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Karen Kettle

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 6, 2022 by Experiential Learning Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Cathy Beauchamp – Principal at Englehart High School in North Eastern Ontario

Cathy Beauchamp - Principal at Englehart High School in North Eastern Ontario
About Cathy Beauchamp

Cathy Beauchamp (@cbeauch) is a principal at Englehart High School (Grades 7 -12). She started in administration in 2006 as the vice principal of Timiskaming District Secondary School. She was the principal at this school when it transitioned to a 7 – 12 school in 2014.

Cathy comes from a sports background and incorporates an action-oriented teamwork approach. She puts the needs of the learners at the forefront of all of her decision-making and supports building capacity within her staff while focusing on wellness for all within the school community.

Cathy enjoys coaching basketball and encourages students to get involved in extracurricular activities in order to deepen their connection with the school. Outside of work time, she enjoys spending time with her family and being active in nature, usually with two golden doodles by her side.

Connect with Cathy: Twitter | Instagram | Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Cathy welcome to the High Performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Please start by introducing yourself.


Cathy Beauchamp (00:10):
Well, good morning, Sam, and thank you for having me on your show. I feel very honored that you reached out to me to include me in your podcast. I am a principal in a 7-12 school in Northern Ontario in a little town called Englehart we have about 200 students in total. I’ve been at that school for four years. And previous to that, I was the principal at new district secondary school, which is a a half an hour south of where I am now and a larger school, seven to 12 again, and probably about 700 students.


Sam Demma (00:52):
When you’re a student, you always get that question. What do you wanna be when you grow up? I’m curious to know when you are going through school yourself, when people ask you that question, was your answer a principal?


Cathy Beauchamp (01:08):
No, it actually wasn’t. I was a little bit of a resistor and I think it had to do with the fact that both of my parents are educators or were educators. My mom was a secondary art teacher and my father comes from a PHED science background and he actually went on to be a principal as well. And fun fact, he was a principal in the same two schools that I’ve been a principal in. Oh, wow. So that’s kind of neat. So being around the dinner table and being around a lot of talk of edge in my youth sometimes it can kind of sway your decisions on things and it’s also it, it’s also something that it was kind of thought that I would do that. And I kind of felt like I wanted to prove that there was more to myself then at the time I was very athletic in high school and, and through university.


Cathy Beauchamp (02:12):
And I think everybody thought that I was going to go to university for something PHED science related and I thought, no, I’ll, I’m going to do something different. And I went off and did a commerce degree which was, which was a interesting sitting in a university first year accounting class when I had never taken any high school accounting. It moved really quickly, but I managed to model my way through that learned a lot along the way made some good friends. And I worked in the world of, of, in Toronto for about a year and a half. And then I, it, I literally woke up one morning in Toronto, in my basement apartment and thought, what am I doing? Mm. I felt like I was kind of resisting something. And I said, you know, I, I wanna teach. And at that point I, I made up my mind.


Cathy Beauchamp (03:10):
I, I moved back north with my parents. I supply taught for the year. And then I actually went to the following year, ah to a first nation community along the James bay coast. And I taught at Northern light secondary school. And that was a, a great experience. So I was teaching unqualified at the time. But then as life would have it we ended up moving. I was engaged at the time and my husband had a job offer in Alberta. And so we moved to grand Prairie Alberta. After I finished that year and the education dream was put on hold a little bit. I dabbled in, in some more business type careers and had my children nice. I have two children Sabrina who is now RN at Ottawa general in the emerg department and my son, Randy, who is just finishing up teachers college at EPON university in north bay.


Cathy Beauchamp (04:17):
Nice. so we are at the, for seven years at which time I started my masters of education program online through Ning. And then we ended up returning to Northern Ontario. You think, you, you say you’re leaving and you are not coming back, but it’s funny how the world works. Yeah. And we ended up back in Northern Ontario. And I went to, I actually taught again unqualified at to miss being district secondary school, a couple of courses in business, and then went to teachers college. And, and then I did like a five years of teaching and then moved into administration.


Sam Demma (05:02):
W it’s funny, I, I interviewed another principal named Kevin wedling who’s from Mousonee. Which a small world, what, along your journey, what helped you make the decision that education was for you?


Cathy Beauchamp (05:18):
I think it’s, it was just that it did come very natural to me. And I think I always had my hand in coaching after I left playing basketball and I, I just always felt very comfortable and at home in that environment and sometimes you don’t realize that that’s your place and you’re until you go other places. And not that those other experiences, I think they really add to it and they help you appreciate when you’re back into the area that you have the passion for. So I think that’s why the journey wasn’t quite as straightforward for me as it is for some people. But all of that experience along the way of that journey certainly helped to enrich what I brought to the table.


Sam Demma (06:14):
And you’ve worked in various roles within schools, you know, both teaching and administration for an educator out there who wants to know what it’s like to work as a principal. How, how would you break it down?


Cathy Beauchamp (06:33):
Well it’s like being transformed out of your classroom and sometimes as a teacher we’re very fixated on our class and now we’re very fixated on our school as a principal. So it’s just a little bit wider lens. But it’s, I always find it very inspiring. Working in it education, there’s so many great people in our school, in our board, just I mean with technology and social media, it’s really busted open education in the way that we can communicate with others and bounce ideas off people and connect with people to share ideas. It’s, it’s very inspiring and very uplifting, like the ideas that people come up with and that as a principal, you’re able to sit there and bounce ideas off people. It’s, it’s great. They’re, you know, dealing with families, dealing with students is always a lot of fun and seeing at growth now that we’re in a seven, just 12 school. When I first started in administration, we were in nine to 12 school. So the, the seven and eight experience added in in my first year as a principal added a whole new, an area of development that I wasn’t as familiar with. And you know, I, I like having that, I think it’s a good transition for those students to be in a high school environment


Sam Demma (08:07):
For educators listening, who, you know, want to remain optimistic and positive, despite the challenges of our time right now, what do you think are some of the opportunities in an education? Maybe that exists because of current situations, but also just in general?


Cathy Beauchamp (08:29):
Oh my gosh. There’s lots of opportunities. You know, I, I have to applaud teachers on these this past two years. They have undergone some of the greatest professional development really kind of was forced upon them for survival. Yeah. And they’ve done a fantastic job pivoting to remote learning. And in our, we we certainly had our share of it. We’re in it now. Last year we weren’t in it as long as some of the schools in Southern Ontario. But I, I think, you know, as an educator, it’s important to, to set goals and, you know, you may be happy with being classroom teachers, lots involved with that. But I think it’s important to keep yourself open to learning and to new ways of teaching or different technology and finding that balance in your program, keeping it fresh, keeping it current, make sure we’re preparing our students for their future.


Cathy Beauchamp (09:38):
Those are all good things in terms of movement, I mean, in a, in a high school, you have an opportunity to maybe move towards a, a department head position to try out, to see if you like a leadership role. And then there’s also, you know, taking non responsibility of maybe doing teacher in charge or something like that, too, that gives you an opportunity to be in an administrative role for a short period of time to cover for principals when they’re away. And it is, it, it is a very different job. It’s if you were to ask me to give you off description, I couldn’t, if you’re the, like, if you’re a person that likes to know exactly how your day’s gonna roll might not be the position for you because there’s something that either comes through your door or a phone call or whatever it can change your day quite a bit. So but it is also very satisfying career being able to work with youth, being able to work with teachers, being able to work with principal colleagues in our senior admin team. We are very fortunate being a smaller board that, you know, we know our, our senior administrators for our board very well and meet with them on a monthly basis.


Sam Demma (11:00):
What keeps you personally motivated hopeful and inspired to continue doing this work day in and day out?


Cathy Beauchamp (11:10):
You know, I think just like talking to students can just turn your day around. Hmm. You know, and, and sometimes I, I, and I do find it’s important as an administrator to get out into the halls and, and get into those classrooms because you’d be surprised by the conversations that happened that probably wouldn’t happen if you had stayed in your office. So I think I, I am, I’m always, I see, you know, some of those principles putting their desk out in the hall and I kind of like that idea too. I don’t know that I’m there yet. I seem to have to have too much on my desk, but I do like that idea. I do have a standup desk already, so thanks. I’m, I’m moving there. But and also so that from a student perspective but teachers also inspire me in terms of just the ideas that they come up with, the visions that they have.


Cathy Beauchamp (12:14):
And it’s, it’s great to see, you know, where our kids move on to the different careers and having them back in to the school to speak to our students or having back in as staff or, or whatnot. It’s, it’s really encouraging to see, I think like being in this career kind of keeps you a little bit in touch with not, I’m not saying that I’m very, no, all everything going on with youth, but it does give me a little bit it kind of keeps you a little bit more youthful, I guess, in terms of what’s happening.


Sam Demma (12:52):
That’s so true. I think schools and just working with youth in general is always energizing. They have awesome ideas and not just young people, all people, but, you know, you’re less, you have less conditioned beliefs as a young person and you believe that everything is possible and you chase really unrealistic. And not that that stops as you grow up, but I think that’s where the energy and the youthfulness kind of comes from. It’s true. But you also are heavily involved in athletics. How has that shaped the way you’ve approached teaching and, you know, working with young people?


Cathy Beauchamp (13:33):
Well, I’ve always felt that coaching allowed me to give back to the community that I really enjoyed. I could not imagine going to school and not being involved in athletics. And I know that that could that sediment could be shared whether it’s the arts or trades or whatever, lots of different extracurriculars, but for me, it, it definitely was athletics. And I just think, especially as an administrator and coaching, it’s allowed me to have a connection with students in the school. That’s just at a different level. It’s, it’s it, I’m not the principal in the office anymore. I’m their coach. I’m, I’m traveling at one point when I was at TDSs. I used to drive the bus. Oh, nice. As well. So you know, lots of hats that you wear and it, it is just really rewarding to see the kids enjoying that.


Cathy Beauchamp (14:37):
And I, I do really feel for our students right now that extracurriculars have kind of been in a stop start, you know, pattern. And we, we were able to start this year with extracurriculars and instantly I could see a difference in the kids that were involved. There’s just more of a connection with the school. And I think, and that goes for all of our extracurriculars, whether it was students, council, jock, chapters guitar club, just they just saw school as something more, and that’s the way it should be. And I think it’s so important to have those things. And I really hope that we’re able to get them going again. Shortly


Sam Demma (15:23):
I agree as someone who pursued athletics pretty much my entire childhood up until the age of 17, 18 years of old, I identified a large majority of my life with, with an identity as a human being with the sport of soccer and found community there found success, found happiness, found so many things from, from sport. So I hope things open up soon, too. And all for all your, for all your students as well, not just me and soccer players, but for all extra cooker activities and clubs. In terms of your own journey and education, what have you found helpful when it comes to resources or learning materials, books, things that you’ve come across that have maybe influenced the way you approach your work or have enhanced it, or taught you something that you found or thought was really helpful?


Cathy Beauchamp (16:21):
Well if there’s one like really positive thing about the pandemic, I think it really has opened up a lot of learning opportunities for people not just in educate, but certainly during our last lockdown last year, I took advantage of a lot of the free professional development out there that was available online and jumped in where I could to to, with learning that kind of Cohen side, it with things that we were working on within our board or school or things that I could share with my staff or students that might help through this journey. I do like to kind of align whatever I’m reading or whatnot with, because it’s kind, it can be very overwhelming to try, try to have too many ideas in education. And so I try to align things so that it makes sense to me.


Cathy Beauchamp (17:23):
And I hopefully make sense to my staff that I’m not throwing too many different things at them. I think it’s important to have curiosity and to ask questions and to learn as, as much as possible. I do do professional reading, but I think more so I do more just personal reading in the evening, just as a way to kind of unwind for my own wellness. And I try to do more professional reading you know during the day or, or even the, like I find sometimes talking to people is, might be a bad source of digesting some of that information too. So lots of different sources. I I’ll look on Twitter. I, I have to say that I am kind of like that stalker type person on Twitter. I, I should, I have to force myself to get out there and respond more. But I do like to make connections when I see things that I know maybe someone in my staff is working on that I’m sharing things with them and being that kind of resource for them, as well as just resourcing things for my own professional development. So that’s, it’s kind of of a mixed bag.


Sam Demma (18:51):
I was speaking to someone literally two days ago, who, when we started the call said, oh, I saw you live in X. And she named the city I’m from, and I said, well, how did you figure out that? And she says, oh, it was on one of your Instagram pictures. And I was like, oh yeah. And I already know that you’re from Winnipeg. And she’s like, where’d you find that like, from your Instagram page? And we both started laughing because I feel like social media has made it acceptable to some degree to like stalk somebody like to like, you know, like figure out some basic information about them before you actually talk. So that’s kind, that’s kind of funny, but that’s awesome. And you sound like you read a lot. Is, is reading a, a big part of your life or is that something you’ve always done?


Cathy Beauchamp (19:35):
It’s something that I have tried to do. It’s kind of one of those goals. I think it’s very easy to, to watch Netflix in the evening, which I will admit that I, I do sometimes unwind, but I usually try in the last half hour, hour of the evening just to read something just to reduce the screen time, especially during the school year. Nice. Yeah, that, it’s just, I try to work on a, a girlfriend of mine talk to me about habits. So it was talking to our, our friend group about habits and she was saying that it takes 33 days to develop a habit. Oh, wow. And so that you should write it down what it is that you want to do, want to eliminate, want to add whatever it is, and try to do that for 33 days and not to be hard on yourself.


Cathy Beauchamp (20:26):
If you missed a day, it’s not like you have to go back that you, you missed a day and, and carry on. And so I tried that actually this year when you talk about athletics I found that I’m an a weekend summer athlete and during the school year, Monday to Friday, it’s not very good. So I tried to adapt Monday to Thursday, philosophy of doing something for at least a half an hour as a habit. And I did that through the fall and it, it makes a difference and, you know, taking that time and, and I often found it was at lunch. I would just take that time and go out for a walk or go down to the weight room and do a little bit of yoga or something to that effect. It was important to, to make that time. And once again, if, if the day gets away from you and it doesn’t happen, it’s okay. You start again tomorrow.


Sam Demma (21:29):
That’s awesome. There’s a phenomenal book called atomic habits, and it talks all about the practice of replacing habits and the science behind habits. And maybe you’ve actually heard of it already,


Cathy Beauchamp (21:40):
But I it’s probably that what this discussion came from for sure. I, I, I guess I got the Cole’s notes version of it from her.


Sam Demma (21:49):
Cool. That’s awesome. And you were an athlete, you still are involved in athletics, both as a coach, but also a part of Neo for some people wondering what that weird word that they don’t know what it is. Can you explain what ne is and your involvement?


Cathy Beauchamp (22:09):
Sure. It’s just a Northeast Northeastern Ontario athletic association. And so our association encompasses schools basically from the north bay area, right up through to Hearst whether they be French, Catholic public boards. And I sit as a principal rep on our association to represent our region, which is actually Tamy to to Hearst. And then we send teams through to a, or meet about things regarding a and extracurriculars to deal with sports.


Sam Demma (22:55):
Awesome. And this is gonna be the hardest question of the whole interview, but oh boy, No pressure. If you could, if you could take the wisdom and experie into knowledge, you have now bundle it all up, go back in time, walk into the first classroom you ever taught in and speak to your younger self. When you were in your first year of education, knowing what you know now with the experience and advice, what would you tell your younger self?


Cathy Beauchamp (23:31):
Well, there’s a few, few things I would tell my younger self. I think initially I always felt from a team perspective and, and we talked about how teams develop those life skills for us. But I was often surrounding myself with similar minded people. And I think as I entered education, there was a habit to do that as well. And I think it’s really important to respect and, and try to, and people that have differences of opinions because it’s, there can be a lot of growth that happens there if you’re not resistant to it and it can help to create a stronger team. And so you, you know, what, and giving people a opportunities to share in leadership, it’s not just sort of like a dictatorship that you’re having other voices be heard too. I would say as an educator, it’s important not to take things personally.


Cathy Beauchamp (24:42):
I know that we all do but it it’s at times you, you need to let things slide for sure. I’ve always had a philosophy of not letting things Fe in terms of communication. If something has go gone wrong, I like to address it and not let it build up to something that I don’t want it to become. I have a strong belief in that I should model what I expect to see. So whether I’m working with students I’m modeling what I would expect them to do, or whether I’m working with a staff I would model what I want them to do. I shouldn’t be expecting them to do something that I, I can’t do. And I think that has served me well. It’s important to be fair. And that probably the most important thing is to admit when you’re wrong, because you’re going to be


Sam Demma (25:49):
So true, Kathy, thank you so much for taking some time to share your experiences and stories on the podcast. If someone is listening and wants to reach out, ask you a question or send you an email, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you? You can share the actual email itself. And I will also put it in the article we post on the website.


Cathy Beauchamp (26:11):
Okay. I’m on Twitter at (twitter). Or I am my, my school email is (email).


Sam Demma (26:33):
Thank you again for taking the time. This has been a lot of fun. Keep up with the great work and I look forward to talking again soon.


Cathy Beauchamp (26:39):
Thanks very much, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Cathy Beauchamp

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 6, 2022 by Athletic Director Principals Student Leadership Teachers 2

Sara Lindberg – Educational Consultant at CESA #11 and World Traveller

Sara Lindberg - Educational Consultant at CESA #11 and World Traveller
About Sara Lindberg

Sara Lindberg (@techytaka) has had a non-traditional pathway to becoming an educator, including turns as a freelance writer, independent filmmaker, administrative assistant, and veterinary clinic manager. 

After going back to graduate school to get her master’s in education and media technology, she worked in the field of education as a tutoring coordinator, a school library media specialist and technology coach, an English teacher, and an educational consultant. 

She recently spent two years co-teaching at a bilingual public school in Spain, and now she works as an educational consultant and splits her time between her hometown in Wisconsin and her adopted hometown in Spain. She loves to travel, hike, meet new people, and share stories, most of which involve the kindness of strangers. 

Connect with Sara:  Email  |  Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sara Lindberg
Resources Mentioned

Cooperative Educational Service Agency #11

Burnett Dairy (Best cheese in Wisconsin)

Virtual Reality Field Trips

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Sara welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here this morning. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself?


Sara Lindberg (00:10):
All right. Well, I’m Sara Lindberg. I came into education in kind of a non-traditional way. So before I got into education, I did some freelance writing. I made independent films. I managed a veterinary clinic for a while. And then I came into education, actually working for a middle school after school tutoring program while I was getting my master’s. And then once I graduated, I, I was a library specialist at a small district nearby where I grew up in Northwestern, Wisconsin, and now I work at a CESA. So it’s a cooperative educational service agency in Northwestern, Wisconsin. So I work with about 39 school districts in our region. And the two years I was living and working in Spain as a co-teacher at a bilingual secondary school. So that’s my that’s sort of my educational journey in a nutshell.


Sam Demma (01:16):
what really fascinates me is the different roles and position you hopped around in and experienced before landing on education. Did you know growing up that one day, you would end up in a school or working with a school district or did it just kinda unfold?


Sara Lindberg (01:36):
You know, I think a little bit of both actually, because I, I look back to, I remember in kindergarten and we had to draw a picture of like what you wanna be when you grow up. And I remember drawing a picture of a teacher and I wanted, because I always loved school. So I wanted to be a teacher and then as I got older, then okay, now I wanted to be a veterinarian and then I wanted to be a writer and then I wanted to be a filmmaker and then I wanted to be a lot of different things. And I sort of did all of those in some capacity, but just came back to teaching and I was not really expecting it, but now looking back, I think like, oh, maybe that’s, maybe that was meant to be all along.

Sam Demma (02:19):
You also do a lot of traveling. How has kind of shaped your work or given you new perspectives?

Sara Lindberg (02:30):
Well, I think well in a few ways, so I studied abroad my first like big traveling situation was when I studied abroad in, in college in Australia. And so I lived there for stay six months and to D term at the university of Melbourne. And I absolutely loved it, made great friends and just really realized that there are amazing people all over the world. And I did a lot of traveling while I was in Australia. And so I think after that, when I came back, then I was like, okay, where else can I go? So I think that has, you know, that was really eyeopening for me at that time. And then I think just traveling around, I do a lot of solo travel. So just going by myself, meeting new people kind of getting into the non touristic parts of, you know, this towns and cities that I visit has been really great for me.

Sara Lindberg (03:29):
Like I love learning about new cultures and meeting people and hearing about their experiences. And you just meet, like, for me, I say, if they’re is, if there are good people in your town, I will find them because randomly I just meet the best people when I travel. I really, really do that is so I think that has given me a broader perspective. I mean, coming from a very, very small town in Wisconsin about 800 people. So my graduating class was 30. Nice. So I definitely I definitely have been opened up to, you know, more different ways of life, you know, and I’ve been living in Seville for the past two years. So a fairly big city, I mean, especially compared to where I grew up. But then also I think living in Spain for the last two years as a Spanish learner has really helped me a lot in working with bilingual emerging bilingual students has really helped me in my work right now, I work a lot with ESL teachers and directors of ESL programs. And so being a would learner myself and like, you know, having that struggle and having some personal experience to draw on, even though my experiences clearly are not the same as, you know, a lot of our students, but I, I can understand more that it’s just, it’s more than just, you know, the language that goes along with that. So I think that’s helped me too in my teaching it’s become it. It’s helped me become a better teacher for sure.

Sam Demma (05:06):
That’s awesome. And you mentioned CSA a little bit as well for those who don’t understand what the association or the organization does, how would you explain it? What is the purpose and role and how did you end up in that specific position of as well?

Sara Lindberg (05:23):
Yeah, so Wisconsin, there are 12 C, so they’re nationally, they’re called like ESAs educational service agencies. So a lot of states have something similar, like in New York, it’s BOCES and other states have, you know, similar things, but they just call ’em something else. So I work in CSUN 11, so it’s the Northwestern part of the state, a lot of small, more rural school districts. And so our organization provides support services. My department is focused on professional development and instructional support for school districts. So within that I work in the ESL title three program, universal design for learning. I sort of manage the library programs there because I have a background as a school librarian. And so I do a lot of like teacher workshops and working with school districts in district to do some planning, working on developing new programs. And then I work a lot with educational technology.

Sam Demma (06:32):
That’s so cool. And how has the work changed or shifted or pivoted over the past two years? I feel like COVID has played a big role in reshaping education. What has changed or shifted over at CSA for you?


Sara Lindberg (06:49):
Well, I think I was in a pretty good position, I think personally because I have a background in educational technology. Cool. So, so right when COVID hit I was working, you know, kind of part-time remote from Spain for the last two years, you know, still doing some support and it was this immediate need for in the moment, you know, tech support and really specific training on how do we make this shift from, in her person to virtual in a very, very short amount of time. So I actually worked with teacher friends in Spain helping them because we literally had one day, like we found out Thursday night, they made the announcement that we would go into lockdown on Monday. So we had Friday to basically set all of the, you know, all of the tea and all the students had to figure out, you know, okay, what are we gonna do now?


Sara Lindberg (07:42):
And then it was, you know, oh, it’s gonna be two weeks. And then, you know how that went. So I think for me it was an easier transition. But definitely now we thought we were going back to like normal, right. Which is not the case. So we’re doing a lot of, I mean, we have the same learning curve as a lot of districts. So trying to figure out how the things that we do are focused so much on in person, professional development day, long workshops. And right now that’s really just not a possibility. So we’re also you developing new ideas. So how do we do hybrid? How do we do instead of one day, can we break it up into a few, you know, shorter virtual sessions, how do we work in this blended environment and support teachers? And also what teachers need has been quite different, you know, over the last two years.


Sara Lindberg (08:39):
So initial was a lot of technology. Now we’re a little bit, I don’t wanna say over it, but teachers have developed over the last, you know, year and a half out of necessity. Like they’ve found a way that works for them. So now it’s more okay, now that this is ongoing, how do we navigate having some students in person, some students at home and the same thing for our teachers? How do we support them? You know, when they really only have, you know, small blocks of time, cause everyone’s, you know, nobody can find subs and so everyone’s sort of covering for each other. So how do we get them the best bang for their buck? Right. So we have to be really creative in what we’re doing, but it’s like also a really great opportunity to develop new programming and think outside the box. Like, what if we did this?


Sara Lindberg (09:30):
What if, you know, let’s try this. And I think there’s a lot more room to try, try new things. And then if they don’t work out, it’s kind of like, well, okay, we tried that it didn’t work now, what can we do differently? Or what, what part of that did work? And we can, you know, tweak it a little bit. So it has been, yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s been terrible. obviously, but also a lot of opportunities have come up and, you know, we’ve seen that, you know, there are really great ways to do some blended learning for teachers and for students,


Sam Demma (10:04):
That idea of trying something, learning from it, trying again in tech, it’s called rapid iteration. Mm-Hmm and one of my favorite artists, his name’s Kanye probably heard of Kanye before. yeah, he, he, on his latest album, went into the middle of a stadium for like a month and made the music live in front of people and would ask for their feedback live while he was making it. And it was like this crazy, innovative idea in the music world, because no one’s at ever done that before. And he was taking that idea of rapid iteration and applying it to his album, which I thought was really fascinating. What are some of the ideas or technologies or resources that you think the school districts have maybe tried to use or utilize over the past couple years, or maybe even in your own work that have been helpful? Any resources tech or softwares?


Sara Lindberg (10:59):
I mean, I think it really, at first we tried to do all the technologies, so it was like, here’s a hundred new apps and, you know, websites and platforms and all this stuff. And it was just, it was too much. And the expectation, you know, for teachers on students to have, and parents too, you know, of parents supporting students at home yeah. To have 20 different platforms and logins and all this stuff, you know, we realized that, you know, more isn’t necessarily better. So, I mean, we went back to some of the, some of the basics, you know, doing podcasts, doing little videos, you know, getting a lot of good stuff off YouTube doing a interactive, just simple things through like learning management systems, like simple like Google classroom or, you know, all of these, you know, Schoology and all this stuff. And so having interactive conversations with students, I mean, one of the, one of the things that I did that I loved was I did a conversation class at the school where I was working in Spain.


Sara Lindberg (12:03):
So we had a conversation class, like maybe once or twice a week and we just talked, you know, so it was for them to practice their English with a native speaker, but we just talked about, you know, what have you learned from COVID what have been some good things? Cause it was really, you know, in Spain, the lockdown meant that you couldn’t leave your house. So kids couldn’t leave the house ever. Wow. And adults could only leave if they were essential workers and they had to have, you know, all the stuff or to, to like go to the supermarket or the doctor. So kids were stuck in the whole time. So for them it was, you know, pretty rough. And so we knew, okay, there’s a lot of bad stuff, but like, what are the cool things that you’ve learned? And the things that they learned were, you know, not part of, you know, traditional academic curriculum, you know, but they’re like, yeah, I learned that, like my brother’s actually like pretty cool now that we’ve spent time together.


Sara Lindberg (12:57):
Like, oh, my grandma taught me how to make, you know, this traditional recipe that she’s been making for years and, you know, or I started a book club with my friends, or we started doing like, you know, group video chats where we would all like watch a movie together. So something like that. So I think part of it was, you know, using some simple technology, but we also learned more about the, the place of like social, emotional learning and health and, and you know, what we learned in COVID wasn’t maybe necessarily as much, you know, of science, English, you know, but we learned a lot of other skills, you know, adaptability and perseverance and things like that. So, but yeah, as far as technology, I mean, there’s so many cool, cool things out there. I actually started doing last year, a lot of stuff with virtual reality. Nice. So we did virtual reality things with like Google expeditions and, you know, sort of virtual field trips and, you know, there’s so many cool things like that where you can kind of experience places that you’d never get to visit. Right. You know, like you can go to the international space station or you can, you know, do tours of like, you know, the moon or, you know, all of these really inner, deep under wall. So, I mean, using virtual reality for me is, is a pretty cool resource like technology resource.


Sam Demma (14:24):
Very cool. I, I interviewed someone about a year ago. I can’t remember his name now. And he actually was one of the first people in his school board to bring VR to the classrooms within the board. And he used it to do expeditions for students who moved away from their home country so that they could see it again, someone who, you know, fled a third world country or came over as a refugee and maybe hadn’t been home for like 14 years. He was, he was able to program the headsets for them to walk through the malls in their local city that they would’ve been in. And it, he told me like kids were crying of joy. Like it was such an amazing experience. Yeah, I think VR will be a huge resource even moving future as well. So it’s cool to hear that you’re already leveraging that as well. Yeah.


Sara Lindberg (15:15):
And, and now that like the technology as we go along, right, the price comes down significantly. So at first it’s, you know, it was really out of reach for some of these things. And I mean, to some extent, you know, to get really high end stuff, it is out reach for a lot of, you know, districts. But I mean, one of the things that we do at CSA is because we’re a consortium model, we have different libraries and things like that. So we can, you know, on behalf of districts we can purchase things and then circulate it like in a library system. So schools who can’t purchase like an entire VR. So that’s one of the things we have in our library. So if they can’t purchase like an entire classroom VR headset set, so every student can have one, we can lend that and they can do a unit for a couple weeks and use that. So, I mean, that’s one of the cool things that I get to do in my job is like test out new technology things. So, I mean, there are times like when people are just like walking around the office with like VR headset or we’re out with, you know, like whatever, you know, drones or like underwater cam, you know, whatever out in the office. And so, yeah, that’s fun.


Sam Demma (16:26):
Very cool. And if you could take your experience working in education, bundle it all up and share it with your younger self, meaning Sarah, when you were just getting into education in the first year, knowing what you know now and with the experience you have, what would you tell your younger self?


Sara Lindberg (16:46):
Wow. that, that’s a big one because I feel like every experience really has made me a better teacher, even the, you know, things that were not necessarily teaching. Yeah. but I think I would say that just to focus on, I mean, relationships are so important. So I think that, you know, building relationships with students and building relat with colleagues, you know, administrators building a network of, of teachers and people that you can, you know, run things by that you can bounce ideas off of, you know, I wanna try this new lesson I’m thinking about this, you know, what do you think? And then just really listening to students and like some of the best feedback that I’ve got has been from students, you know, saying like, what did you think of this? I mean, I know that a really eye opening thing for me is I was, I was teaching a class that I had developed called film as literature.


Sara Lindberg (17:48):
So I have like a, a filmmaking, you know, film studies background. And so I develop this course and it was like the second year that I was teaching it and I did a survey of students and just getting their feedback, like, what do you think? You know, what’s the, you know, difficulty level, what’s the interest level? Like what ideas do you have and sort of midway through. I was like, okay, I had a plan on where we were gonna go for the rest of the year, but now that I have your ideas, I’m thinking like, let’s do something different. And so like, let’s do what if we do like this independent project and everyone sort of gets to design their own, you know, like here are the standards that we’re looking at or learning targets, but how you approach it and how you show your understanding can be really different.


Sara Lindberg (18:35):
And you, you know, you tell me, so you can work individually. You can work in a, with a partner with a group, whatever. And so we went through that and like, they co-developed the rubrics and they, you know, co-developed the schedule that they were gonna have and said, this is how I’m gonna address these standards. I’m gonna do a, you know, presentation, I’m gonna do a video. I’m going to, you know, one group rewrote the ending to a movie. So they learned how to write in like script format. So they like downloaded the software and learned how to actually write scripts and did this thing about the character development. And this is why, and they went to the whole backstory about why it should have had a different ending to begin with it. . And I mean, it was just amazing. And one student did you know, movies from around the world and she’s like, I wanna do foreign films and talk about the culture and how that impacts, you know, the types of movies and like the history of, of the country and whatever.


Sara Lindberg (19:31):
So she did this amazing presentation and based on that, I was like, okay, next year, we’re adding a foreign film unit into into the curriculum. And she actually came back as a guest lecture the next year, this student. Yeah. Oh, wow. She’s awesome. So I think just like that, like you said, that iteration process of you don’t, it’s not one and done. It’s not, I develop a lesson plan now I have it for the next 30 years. It’s, you know, a constant, okay. This worked, you know, this could be a little better getting feedback from students and really realizing that there’s so many different ways. I mean, as a, you know, like I was always a good student, like a real teacher pleaser. So I was like, whatever you say, like, that’s what I’ll do. So, you know, multiple choice tests, like 10 page papers, whatever.


Sara Lindberg (20:23):
So I think, you know, as an educator and I brought in the way I learned best and the fact that I loved school, I, everything about school, I love learning. I mean, you know, and that’s not the case for everybody . And so I think it’s, it’s just like realizing that there’s so many different, it’s not like this way or this way, it’s like this way or a million different other ways. And you can really be creative in, in how, and the more creative that students can be like the better, like, in my experience, I guess the, the better the projects and the work that students do, if they’re really interested in something it’s like, okay, I would’ve had you maybe write an essay, but instead, you know, like you said, well, what if I like make a little documentary film and you spent like a hundred hours on this documentary film and it was spent probably 30 minutes, you know, slapping together an essay five minutes before class. So like the learning was so much deeper in those cases where students had more of a voice in, you know, what that looked like. So


Sam Demma (21:33):
It’s like a per more of a personal interest too. You’re, you’re letting them craft the experience, which I think is awesome. I want you to get on your soapbox for a second. And someone who has a background in in film, I believe that like the arts are so important. Any artistic, you know, work or subject that enables a student to express themselves. It’s a lot harder for someone to express themselves in math class, which is why I think it’s really important that arts also exist. Why are, why do you think the arts are so important and all forms of art?


Sara Lindberg (22:11):
Oh, man. I am a big, you know, I come from a family that is very creative. So I that’s always been support of my life. Music has always been a big part of my life. I’ve been writing since I was a little kid, you know, writing stories and, you know, and all these things movies, you know, art like painting and drawing and stuff, which I am not good at, but I have other people in the band that are very good at that sort of thing. Nice. so I think being creative was just, I that’s how I grew up and I didn’t really know anything different and in my school that was always encouraged. And so despite being a very small school, there are a lot of opportunities to be involved in the arts. And I think there’s, especially during COVID.


Sara Lindberg (23:01):
I mean, like I found that a lot of people found a creative outlet during COVID because there are some things that you can’t necessarily express maybe in words, and in having a conversation or, you know, a simple way. And art is a very complex and very personal thing that I think allows you to get out all the stuff that’s that’s inside. So I think just from like a mental health perspective yeah. It’s so important, but then also you have, you know, more ownership over it because it’s such a personal creative thing that you can take something that’s like, maybe in, in a school setting, you can take something that’s maybe not super interesting to you. Like you said, maybe math or something like that and approach it in a very creative way. And that allows you to make that connection. Like maybe I, I don’t love this normally, but I found a part that connects to something that I love painting or, or writing or filmmaking or, you know, dance, or, you know, any of those things, music.


Sara Lindberg (24:12):
So, I mean, I think it’s so important. I think we’re seeing like, you know, the focus was on stem and now it’s steam, right. Because we we’ve incorporated arts into that. So actually I work with fine network of educators in the CCC 11 region, and they’re doing some amazing things. And some of the things that, that these teachers were doing during COVID, I mean, if you’re a band director and all of a sudden you’re teaching remotely, what does that look like? And I think really the, the fine arts teachers have to be so creative, I mean, out of necessity, but I mean, they were doing some amazing things in, in virtual learning time. And I think it had such a positive impact on students, especially, you know, during, during that time while still we’re still in the time. Yeah. But, but yeah, so, I mean, I think it’s, you know, it’s, it’s a way for students to express themselves and I don’t think it has to be, and I don’t think it should be a totally separate isolated.


Sara Lindberg (25:16):
I mean, there’s so much, you know, interconnectivity and I just remember I’m, I’m not a painter I’m in awe of people who can paint that. It’s just not a skill that I have. And I remember being in high school and there was a, a teacher of mine who actually is now a colleague of mine. Like, like we work together as nice as adults now, which is, you know, strange. I have a hard time calling, calling her by her first name. Right. Because she was, you know, like always like, you know, Mrs. And now I’m like, okay. And she’s like, okay, you can call me Kate now. It’s fine. But I was taking a class with her and one of the projects she had for a different class was about, I don’t know, short stories or something, and the students could, could show it, you know, in a variety of ways.


Sara Lindberg (26:00):
And I remember one student who was like, not really into school in general, like wasn’t really into like the, you know, academic side of things. But he, for his project, he had done this beautiful painting. That was about a story of, it was during civil, you know, civil rights era in the south. And he did this amazing, like a mixed media painting the, that like represented the conditions like during that time and like some of the STR, and it was just like looking at it, you were just like, oh my gosh, this is like this incredible. And you can see so much, you don’t even need any words, like a 10 page paper would not have anything on this one piece of art because you looked at and you knew exactly. You know, like you could see all these things represented in it. And it was so amazing. And then I was like, oh my gosh, here I am writing papers. You know, like thinking like, great, is this that I can, you know, write a paper. And like, my paper is nothing, you know, I have nothing on, on this guy. Right. So I think, I think there are things that, that fine arts can express that other, you know, other forms of communication really can. So I think it’s super, super


Sam Demma (27:24):
Awesome. You mentioned a association of fine arts teachers or an organization. What, what is the group called? If someone wanted to look it up,


Sara Lindberg (27:35):
It’s actually just a network that we have. So at CSA we have all different kinds of educator networks. So I work the, with the library, medias specialists, and we have like a tech integrator and curriculum coordinators and, you know, title three directors and all stuff. And so one group is the fine arts group. Nice. And what’s really nice about it in our area is like in bigger schools you have say like, I don’t know, 20, 30, 50, whatever art teachers, like music teachers in a lot of our districts, there’s like one or two people who do that. And that’s it. Yeah. So it’s hard to say like, okay, now meet with your department and come up with some ideas. Cause sometimes like in my district it was like, okay, the department of one I’m, I’m the , you know, specialist. I’m like, okay, so a department meeting sweet.


Sara Lindberg (28:23):
It’s just me sitting. Right? Yeah. So to get, you know, in, in our area to get a bunch of, you know, music teachers and art teachers and, you know, theater and dance and you know, together, and they can say, okay, what are you doing in this case? Like, oh, I’m doing this. Oh my gosh, that’s such a great idea. You know, I tried this like, have you tried this, you know, have you tried this app? Have you tried, you know, this extension, you know, here’s an activity that I did. And just have, like that network format is so important I think. And so for fine arts, I mean, it, it’s amazing to be a part. And they’re, you know, my artistic skills are very, very, you know, limited, especially in comparison, but it’s like get a bunch of really, really talented, smart, passionate people together and have a conversation and things that come out of those groups are just like, wow, you guys are awesome. I would say you have to mine the collective wisdom of the group, right?


Sam Demma (29:22):
Yeah. I had someone he had this statement, he said, I think it was R and S it was like Rob and steel. And he was like, I’m looking to Rob and steal people’s ideas all the time and, you know, re you know, reimplement them or adjust them for his own purposes. And I think it’s so important, you know, we don’t always have to reinvent the wheel. Sometimes just having a conversation where someone can open our, open our mind to a totally different perspective that we didn’t think about before. That’s why I think networking and that the groups you’re mentioning are so important. I have three, like rapid, like rapid last minute questions for you to, to wrap up the interview today. okay. And I’m gonna put you on the spot. You’re gonna put me on the spot. cause we didn’t talk about this. You didn’t know what was happening. I,


Sara Lindberg (30:13):
I’m not prepared for these questions,


Sam Demma (30:15):
But they’re gonna be good.


Sara Lindberg (30:17):
Might have to edit them out later. So if it, it turns out that they’re not three questions at you’ll know how the responses went.


Sam Demma (30:24):
Question number one. Did they find your luggage?


Sara Lindberg (30:28):
Yes. oh, yes. It was a Christmas miracle. Yes. I have to shout out to Kayla at Minneapolis St. Paul international airport, because she was on the case and she was made can calls and sending messages and she’s like, we are gonna get your suitcase back, you know? And I, yes, with all the Christmas presents in it for my family. Yes. Arrive safe and sound suitcases, a little banged up, but you know, made it through.


Sam Demma (30:56):
That’s awesome. And for those of you wondering what the heck, that question was in relation to, to Sarah’s suitcase almost went missing while traveling home, right?


Sara Lindberg (31:07):
Yeah. Yeah. It, it got lost and it was like home alone lost in Madrid. Right. So nobody scanned it to like, do anything with it. So it was just sitting there all alone and nobody was really looking for it. And so I got back, I was like, okay, where’s this suitcase. And they’re like, okay, well, you know, make a call put in this ticket. And so then, you know, a couple days go by like nothing. And then I called Kayla and she said, nobody’s even looking for it. It hasn’t been scanned. Nothing has been done. She’s like, I’m gonna start making some calls because I can see like, your suitcase is literally just sitting there and no one is gonna put it on the plane unless, you know, we get a hold of ’em. So yep. They put it on the plane. So it had its own little adventure and then they delivered it actually to my house. Nice American airline’s little delivery van or whatever, and yep. Safe and sound.


Sam Demma (31:57):
Awesome. Question. Number two. If someone is looking to purchase cheese in Wisconsin, what is the best? What’s the best brand or block of cheese they should buy


Sara Lindberg (32:10):
I’m gonna say anything from Burnett dairy. I might be biased, but I think it’s the absolute Wisconsin has, in my opinion, as Wisconsin, the best cheese. And in my opinion, also Burnett dairy in alpha Wisconsin has the best cheese. So they make it, you know, and ice cream, they make the ice like fresh, right from the milk in their big storage facility. So it’s a new flavor every day. So yes, that’s what I bring when I travel. Everyone’s like bring cheese, go to the dairy, bring cheese. So every time I travel it’s with a suitcase full of cheese, which makes for interesting airport x-rays sometimes. Yep.


Sam Demma (32:50):
Yes and then thirdly, if someone is in Seville and they have only a few hours, what do they need to see or do?


Sara Lindberg (33:00):
Ooh, you can actually do a lot the, the city center for like the, the really big things is pretty compact. So I’d say take a, walk by the river, go down to Paque Maria Louisa, it’s this really big, beautiful sea go to the cathedral. If you can climb up and, you know, go all the way to the top, you can have this amazing view of the city. It’s a long walk off up, but it’s worth it. And yeah, and then just eat some, you know, have some top bus and, and enjoy and go in springtime when the orange trees are blossoming. Cool. Because then it’s a beautiful, you know, sense of orange trees.

Sam Demma (33:52):
Awesome. Cool, Sarah, thank you so much for taking some time to come on the show to talk about your journey into education and some things that have been helpful for, you and your perspectives and philosophies, Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.

Sara Lindberg (34:11):
Thanks for having me on! Good to see you again.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sara Lindberg

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 4, 2022 by Education Consultant Student Leadership Student Success 0

Adriano Carota – Classroom Teacher at St. Mary’s College in Sault Ste. Marie

Adriano Carota - Classroom Teacher at St. Mary's College in Sault Ste. Marie
About Adriano Carota

Adriano Carota (@adrianocarota) began his journey of working with youth during his time in residence life at the University of Waterloo and Western University. That experience drew him to teacher’s college and a career as an educator. “When am I going to use this in life?” This question is the driving force of his passion for providing students with insight into career exploration and goal setting.

Adriano served as the Leader of Experiential Learning for the Huron-Superior Catholic District School Board after spending time in the Student Services Department at his alma mater, St. Mary’s College. His professional career has brought him -full circle – back to the classroom where his passion is stoked by the curiosity of his students.

Connect with Adriano:  Email  |  Linkedin | Twitter

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Resources Mentioned

The High Performing Student Podcast

St Mary College School

Goal Setting and Planning Resource

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Adriano, welcome to the high-performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. It’s been a while since we’ve spoken, how have you been and introduced yourself and let the audience know who you are?

Adriano Carota (00:14):
Well, thanks for having me. I’m pretty excited. I know we’ve been trying to get this going and it’s I miss you, man. I really do. It’s been a long time and we we’ll talk a little bit about how you’ve been using some of your content in the school and hope to do more of it. My name’s Adriano Carota. I’m a teacher at the Huron-Superior Catholic district school, at my Alma mater St. Mary’s college, very excited to be here all the way up in Sault, Ste. Marie, Ontario. So we are experiencing an odd December actually. It’s it’s very mild here today. It’s about eight degrees and rainy. So the snow is slowly melting away which is unusual, but hopefully we’ll end up with a white Christmas.

Sam Demma (01:00):
Yeah, I hope so too, because it’s raining here as well. And it’s oddly warm, which is kind of funny for late December…

Adriano Carota (01:09):
It’s very funny.

Sam Demma (01:10):
Yes. Tell us a little more about your journey into education and what brought you to where you are today?

Adriano Carota (01:19):
Well, it was a, not a straightforward journey. That’s for sure. I like most kids. I remember sitting in my a grade 10, I think it was a religion or geography class. And her teacher kind of told us a stat that, you know, you’re gonna change your decision for what you wanna do in your career, like a million times. And I just couldn’t I couldn’t wrap my head around that and sure enough, it wasn’t a million times, but it was quite a few times. So I ended up up going to university and when I got there, I was quite involved in residence life as a orientation leader. And then I always had a goal to sort of be a, an RA my university, university of Waterloo. We were, we were called dawns. And I got involved in that.

Adriano Carota (02:00):
And from there, one of my supervisors was just an amazing leader and heavily involved. He had been to about two other schools at the time in residence life. So I applied to a few schools and I finally got into a university of Western Ontario at the time now, Western university tremendous housing program, residence life program there. And one day a friend of mine called and said, I’m thinking of going to Buffalo for teachers college. Why don’t you join me? So I went for an orientation meeting and the rest is history, moved back home. Got a teach teaching job in elementary school for the board I, I currently work for here on superior. And and then was doing a lot of coaching I a big into, into coaching football and basketball. So I was doing that at the high school level as well as elementary. And then I put a transfer in, got back to my to St Mary’s college, which, which I’ve been at for, for, you know, the majority of my career and, and absolutely loving it. It’s a great place.

Sam Demma (03:02):
Most of the time when friends call to go to Buffalo, they want to go shopping so going for teachers college is awesome. Did, did you know, well, we ended up

Adriano Carota (03:14):
Go ahead, go ahead. Say I was just gonna say we did end up trying the best wings around Buffalo wings. That was, that was kind of the highlight there from the non school standpoint because we did actually live in 40 area Ontario. So we commuted over the border, getting over the border back then was a lot easier than it certainly is now for obvious reasons. So we were pre nine 11 and all that. So it was kind of easy.

Sam Demma (03:37):
Yeah. And did you from a young age, no. Teaching was your thing, like, I know you said you changed paths a couple times, or like when did the idea pop into your mind that it could be a, a possibility aside from your buddy recommending it?

Adriano Carota (03:51):
I think when I was sitting in the orientation session in Buffalo. Yeah, no, I, I never thought I really enjoyed it. I was heavily involved at high school. Yeah. I had some good mentors that really encouraged me to develop my leadership skills. I went to a couple leadership camps that I was kind of recommended to go to. But you never really think of yourself as a leader. I never thought I I’d go into teaching. I was really into healthcare. I thought I’d be like a a chiropractor, a physiotherapist, something like that. And when I went to school, I just started to kind of really get more interested in, in the extracurricular stuff that, that I was involved in, like the, the orientation stuff, the leadership stuff. And I think it was just fate. You know, I, I really believe that you know God has a plan for us and, and my friend called me that day and, you know, the rest is history.

Adriano Carota (04:41):
And so I think that’s sort of what led me there. Was it something subliminal perhaps? I’m not, I’m not too sure, but I, I certainly don’t regret it. I really am happy to be back in the classroom. I’ve had a really good journey in my, in my career, which a lot of teachers don’t get to experience. And it’s good to kind of, I’m hoping to end my career in the classroom as well because the students really give you a lot of energy. I’m sure you feel that when you’re in front of them as well. Whenever that happens, that you’re able to really get, get that boost of energy from them from that youth. So not that you’re a very old at all Sam, but you’ll certainly experience more of that as you kind of age, like.

Sam Demma (05:22):
Yeah. A hundred percent and you are right by sharing that you’ve had a unique journey being that you’re someone who loves leadership activities and being hands-on, I could see how the classroom would be super helpful. And I could also see how you would enjoy the experiential learning role that you were in the past few years, take us through some of the different roles you’ve had in education and why you think it makes your journey a little more unique.

Adriano Carota (05:47):
So when I was in residence life as a, a residence manager, you know, you do a lot of advising. You do a lot of assisting kids and guiding them and helping them and, and taking them through some of their life struggles. And so I always, once they did get in teaching, I always wanted to end up in guidance student services as we call it now. And so I was a guidance counselor for about seven or eight years, and then I just, I guess I needed a change. I, I do, I do kind of have that in me where do need to change things up from time to time. And experiential learning was a hot topic in our province. And the, the ministry of education put out a position for that in every school board. And I applied and I got it.

Adriano Carota (06:31):
I thought I could bring a little bit something to that. And it was also a way for me to hopefully get back into the classroom and with students from grade kindergarten all the way to 12, unfortunately COVID hit. And so my time in the classroom was a little bit limited, but we did what we could we did a lot of stuff virtually. So it’s yeah, so I, I went from guidance, so you got to see the other end of it, and you really, it really humanizes the student. Right. And, you know, when I first started teaching, I didn’t have kids. And, you know, you always hear people say, oh, if you had kids you’d understand. And I always thought I understood, but really wasn’t until I had my, my first daughter that it, it, it does change you and working in student services also humanize the, the student as well, because you realize that they’re at school, you know, not always for the they’re at school, cuz it’s a safe place to be.

Adriano Carota (07:21):
And they’re around positive role models being the teachers and the staff. And so that put that human element back into teaching as opposed to we’re just the knowledge givers. Because I think that we, we, we do offer a lot, the greatest part about it is as a guidance counselor, I was involved in graduate, right grade 12 graduation. And one of the greatest things I hear is when students thank their teachers and those people that in their life that were their role models to kind of guide them along because that’s a really great component of the school. It’s not just about, you know, the ABCs and, and the one, two threes, right. There’s more to it than that. And, and so that really F fills me as, as kind of why I’m glad I’m still in teaching. And I chose that, that pathway.

Sam Demma (08:06):
I love it. And you’re absolutely right. That safe spaces and cultivating safe spaces in schools are so important for everybody, including the teachers, the staff, and the students in class classrooms, specifically. How do you think educators do that? Is it through sharing your own vulnerable stories or allowing kids to share, or how do you think you cultivate and build safe classrooms in a safe school?

Adriano Carota (08:37):
Well, I think everyone does it a bit differently. I think fairness is key. So as long as the kids know that you’re fair and you have integrity, then that goes a lot a long way. Right. And you know, that saying fairness, isn’t always the sameness, but I think the kids understand you know, you’re not, you’re not favoring one student over the other and kids are pretty perceptive too. They, they know when one of their classmates needs a little bit more of a push or a little bit more of a break than, than others. So I think everyone does it a little bit differently. Recently since I’ve been back, I, I throw a slide with an emoji up and it’s called old man wisdom. And that’s, that’s basically, I try to tell the kids like, you know, I was just like you, so I get where you’re coming from.

Adriano Carota (09:22):
And, and when the adult at the front of the room is trying to tell you something, you’re not understanding, you’re not conceptualizing it at the time, but so I try to reinforce with them that somewhere down the road, you’re gonna say, oh man, Mr. Carta. Yeah, that was, that was the hang on, you know, cuz I’ve done it a million times in my life. Right. and that’s not an exaggeration. It likely has been a million times where, you know role models or adults in your life. My parents especially were great foundation in my life. And so, you know, that that’s sort of, you, you wanna make sure that they take a better path than you, right? Like, so some people I’m always like, I don’t want my kids to be like me. I want my kids to be better than me. Right. And so that’s like kind of my goal for my kids. And I treat the students the same way, you know you know, kind of go out and, and, and set your mind at being the best you possibly can be. And that’s at different levels, right? Every not everyone’s gonna achieve at the same, but I think happiness comes from when you’re to, you know, take pride in what you do.

Sam Demma (10:19):
What do you think drives you to continue the work you’re doing every single day, even through the pandemic when things are more difficult, what is your own personal motivator and driver?

Adriano Carota (10:32):
That’s, that’s a tough question. I would say to be a role model to my kids and, and you know, I’m, I’m certainly, I think we all fall into human nature of not always being the most positive. And so you certainly gotta remain positive as you possibly can and try to, to push yourself to be that way. So I think I wanna be better than I was yesterday. And so that sort of motivates me a bit. So that’s a little bit of an forensic motivator and, and give the best product I can to the people that I’m influencing, you know, whether it be my children at home, trying to be the best dad or the kids on the football field or my, my students in my classroom is just try to give them the best that I can be, because then, you know, that will assist them hopefully in, in kinda lighting a fire under them.

Sam Demma (11:18):
I know sports is also a big part of your life. And when I was at the school, I had the privilege of working out in the gym in one of your t-shirts and it’s a, it’s a beautiful space. You know, how do, how do you think coaching has played a role in your experience as an educator? And why do you think it’s so important? Not that kids get involved in sports, but just extracurricular activities in general?

Adriano Carota (11:45):
Well, when I was at, when I would visit the grade eight students to promote our school, that’s we used to do that and talk about the courses you’re gonna take. You know, we have a number of high schools in town and I used to always tell them, regardless of where, what school you go to, you, you’re not gonna enjoy it unless you make the most of it. So you it’s about you, it’s not about the school making the most for you, it’s you making the most out of your experience there and getting involved. And we’re very fortunate at St. Mary’s college. We have a ton of extra career at the curriculars, whether it be sports or, or theater or music various clubs that we have. We do a lot of being in Catholic school. We do a lot of community service as well, right.

Adriano Carota (12:23):
And so that’s a big component of our school and just getting involved is, is important. I, I always think that great coaches make great teachers and, and great teachers make great coaches. And so I kind of in my classroom, it’s almost like I’m coaching as well. Cuz that’s the whole thing I’m not there to, I’m not there to hand out DS. You know, like when I, when I, when a student’s not doing well, more many of the teachers at the school, they look at it personally, like they didn’t do the best they, they could. And, and so they’re always pushing to get that student to be better. We’re not looking to make a bell curve here. We’re, we’re looking to have our students SU succeed as best they possibly can. Right. And so we wanna push them to be the best that they can. So I’ve, I learned that when I first started teaching, I had certain tremendous role models and mentors when I first started, especially here at St. Mary’s college and some, some of the elementary schools that I, it worked in. And so, you know, it’s, it’s putting the kids first and, and trying to get the squeeze, the squeeze the best outta them.

Sam Demma (13:21):
Speaking of becoming the best, whether it’s you personally trying to become your best or students striving to reach their own definition of success. What are some resources that you’ve personally found helpful as an educator for teaching, for working on yourself? And second part of that question is what resources have you found helpful to share with your kids and kickstart discussions in classrooms or even programs that you’ve run in the past that you thought were meaningful and impactful for the kids?

Adriano Carota (13:53):
Oh, wow. That’s a, that’s a tough one.

Sam Demma (13:55):
It’s a long one too.

Adriano Carota (13:57):
It? Yeah, it is. I, I, I’m not saying this cuz I’m on your podcast, but I really looked at what you had put out with the high performing student as well and goal setting. Right. I mean I still struggle to goal set. But I think as, as humans were routine bound and goal, setting’s a big, big part of that. And so if you don’t set a goal for yourself, then how do you know where you’re going? Right. There’s no guideposts along the way. Right? So it doesn’t have to be too specific in terms of daily or what, or what have you. But I think students need to have goals. And one of the resources I keep pushing on to students is planning your future. The saddest things, some of the saddest things that I dealt with as a guidance counselor was a kid coming in and meeting with me for some career advice or some post-secondary advice.

Adriano Carota (14:50):
And, you know, they’re asking me what they should be doing. Right. And, and for me that was, that was a part that was missing that, that we, we didn’t really do a good enough job at. And so I try to push that every day is like, what do you wanna do? What’s your passion? So in my classes now I’m always showing them various resources of their or passion and it may not even be something that they’re looking to do, but there’s always off branches. Right? Like I started in residence life thought I’d be there for a while. I ended up teaching. Right. And so I always tell them as well, like trying to encourage them to get into computer coding as well. Cuz that’s the biggest, that’s a big thing right now. Right. And I, I always tell ’em, I’m, you know, I’m 47 years old and I had to start to learn how to code, right.

Adriano Carota (15:36):
So it’s never, it’s never too late. So I think goal settings important and I think planning is important for your future. And following your passion, cuz a lot of students will follow sort of the pack and where, where people are, are going not a lot, but some will. And it’s important for you to, to, to figure out what that passion is and, and, and do some exploration. Right. And I think that for some students has been limited in the last couple of years of where we are, where we’re at currently with our situation, but we have to move beyond that and try and figure out ways to to get them to see that the future’s so important and high school is such a hard time for, for, for kids as well. And I’m sure you could attest to that too.

Adriano Carota (16:16):
Like we can all attest to that being such a struggle, whether it’s, you know, physical going through puberty or social emotional. And so they just gotta realize that once you get past you know, that and into your senior year and that, you know, life really opens up for you and there’s so much that you can, you can all offer and do a hundred percent. I’m not sure if I answered your question there, it was, that was a tough one. But goal setting I think is, is huge. Having a plan is very important.

Sam Demma (16:44):
You did a hundred percent answered the question and as a follow up, when it comes to teaching and working with students in the classroom from your own personal perspective as an educator, what tools have helped you? And I’m assuming that planning and goal setting are two of those things, but have you come across any articles, books or different programs online, different softwares or anything you’ve used over the past couple of years that you think this tool was really unique and you know, maybe you’ve even told other educators about it. Any, any types of resources like that, that you think another educator might find valuable?

Adriano Carota (17:23):
Oh yeah. I, I actually the last couple years I did a newsletter in, in identifying all, all the stuff that’s, that’s so good out there. One of the best parts is is sort of I think community connectedness, right? So group chats and, and things like that. So those community of like-minded people, or like, you know, biology teacher kind of, that’s what I’m sort of looking at now. Right? Like I was heavily involved in the community for full of experiential learning people. Right. And we shared constantly. So I think human resources is one of the best resources that you, you could possibly have. So, so now coming back to the classroom, as a science teacher, I’m looking for those same communities of people that are you know, teaching science, teaching biology and, and what are you doing and what are your best practices?

Adriano Carota (18:14)
You know, and that, that that’s, I think some of the best that could be out there and, you know, you look from a digital standpoint, YouTube and what it has out there. So many people want to share what they have in social media. So I’m really leveraging social media like Instagram. I know you have a great presence there. It’s a great way to find resources and find connections and what I found the, one of the best things to come out of the pandemic as odd as that sounds was there were so many people doing video conferences in the evening, or, well, we’re doing clinics for example of sports. I did a lot of football clinics, but there were a lot of educators getting together with book study novel study, things like that. Right. So practical study that way.

Adriano Carota (19:02):
And so that was a huge a huge asset and getting online and learning from, from others. And I couldn’t believe how many people were so open to sharing and just giving up free knowledge, right. And then the chats you’d be the chat rooms would, or the chat portion of the, of the zoom calls would be loaded with website resources. So for me, the biggest resource, I, I can’t really nail down one or two, but it’s finding perhaps going on Twitter or Instagram and finding that group that, that you need support from. So whether it be, you know, a group of science teachers, or a group of math teachers, or a group of coaches that are interested in, in giving back because a lot of people are, are interested in sharing for the right reasons, right? Not to brag about what they’re doing, but to just kind of outline that, Hey, you know what, this is one of the greatest things that’s happened to me in my classroom. And I had a lot of success and, and we have a pretty good group around here full of sharing. And so that’s, that’s really important. We share a lot particularly in the department I’m in which has been beneficial for me. So I, I think human resources is the best resource right now and getting out there. And so obviously social media plays into that these days, cuz it’s one of the easiest ways to find things out.

Sam Demma (20:19):
There’s an abundance of videos and educators on, especially Twitter who openly. And I see it too, like post dozens upon dozens of links and resources and things in that you can search through and sift through. I think that’s such a good answer to that question. Human resource is the best resource that’s that should be like a tagline of this episode. if you could,

Adriano Carota (20:43):
Well, you know, you’d go on, you go on there and you, and you find their fall. So I would, what I would do is I’d find their follow orders, right. And then you, or who they’re following. And, and then it just, it, it’s actually a very overwhelming to be quite honest. I, I, I joked with one of my colleagues, a great math teacher, my Calver and I, I, we used the joke all the time. It’s like, I have to take a Twitter break because you could literally, and it’s not cuz I was posting it clearly research, you know? So my employer looks at that as this guy’s on Twitter all day. Well, no, it’s, it’s, it’s not to, you know, to tweet it’s it’s to search for these resources cuz you’re right. Twitter has just become an immense resource, but again, it’s overwhelming cuz there’s so much you can do do and you, so you need to again get set those goals and kind of really diverge your thing in terms of where do you want to go with things and, and what can you choose because you don’t wanna bite off more than you can chew that way.

Adriano Carota (21:33):
But I think, I think we have to leverage like I’m I’m I, I always tell my students that that phone that you have, that smartphone is one of the most powerful things you can, you can have. Right. But it can do a lot of damage, but if we leverage it for the positives there’s so many things we can do with them, it it’s just incredible being the digital agent and how fortunate students are these days.

Sam Demma (21:59):
We’re like an eight-hour drive away and we’re able to connect and have a face-to-face phone call because of technology, which is awesome.

Adriano Carota (22:07):
Yeah, you’re right. I mean, I remember when I was in residence life you know, I had to, we had to do collect, call, collect phone calls home. I’m sure some people on won’t even know what I’m talking about or we’d have a phone card that we can have long distance or long distance plans that we’d get into. Then when I, when I near the end of my current residence life webcams were huge, right? So parents were webcaming their, their, their kids at school, which is awesome. And then now, you know, we have, we have FaceTime, we have zoom and all that. And so hopefully fingers cross the, the pandemic will end soon, but I really hope that we can continue a lot of this because you know, it bridges, it bridges us, you know, like you just said, you’re so far away and yet you’re so you’re so close and the information is still valuable. You’re not in person, but it’s still it’s still great to, to get that exposure to someone who, you know, might be farther away. And especially for us here in the north, you know, we’re about a seven hour, seven and a half hour drive away from the GTA. So for us getting, getting down there is, is kind of tricky at times, right? Particularly in the winter when you have snow on the road, six months of the year.

Sam Demma (23:18):
It’s so, so true. And this past two years have been challenging, but like you mentioned, there was a lot of positives in terms of the technology. Do you think there are any other opportunities that have almost grown because of this period of time or things that have arisen because of the pandemic that maybe are slowly starting to appear as opportunities maybe for a change of thinking or new approaches to things?

Adriano Carota (23:51):
Oh, that’s a, that’s a tough question. I think that you know, again, the, the bringing people who are distantly, geographically distant and culture together certainly helped. I think it’s also, I think getting back to humans, I know when this first started and people were working from home, I thought to myself, you know, all this office real, estate’s gonna, you know, take a hit because people are gonna be working from home. But what I’m finding is people don’t wanna work from home anymore. Yeah. People want that social action re interaction, right. They want to be with their, with, with people. And I, I know with, with our students we’re talking about, you know, what’s gonna happen in two weeks when we return and, and they, so don’t want to be virtual again. They want to be at school. They want to be interacting.

Adriano Carota (24:38):
And that’s a great thing because you know, it gets them in a positive space. It gets them out of their home, gets them out out of the, the, the camera and really puts them in, in a place where it’s probably safer for them, particularly if they’re struggling with mental health or what have you. So I think I think we’ve learned that we took, we took for granted what we had. Right. and so being able to go to the office and, you know, just get, I know last year was my back was killing because, you know, I’m working from home and my computer and my printer and everything’s right there. But when I go to, when I went to work, it was great to just get up and go to the copier. Right. just to get a little stretch stretch happening and just being able to converse with your, with your your colleagues and for the students. It’s huge, huge, right. Being able to be close to friends and near friends and in a safe space because, you know schools have been, you know, the, the, the health table nailed it. Schools are fairly safe for students to be at, right. Cuz the precautions are there and the staff has done a great job in cleaning and, and maintaining a safe environment as far as the, the virus go.

Sam Demma (25:49):
If you could go back in time and basically speak to Adriano in year one of education, but still have the knowledge and experience that you have. Now, what advice would you give to your younger self or another educator who’s in their first working in this vocation?

Adriano Carota (26:14):
Hmm. I think it would be to network, you know don’t, don’t burn any bridges. I tell the students all the time, every day is a resume writing day because you just never know when someone’s gonna call you adrenal grow up for a reference or whatever. Right. So certainly networking and, and getting to know as many people as you can. And you know, taking advantage of, of the connections you have with people. And I think one of the other ones is, is you know, the saying fortune favors the bold, right. Well, I think all, oftentimes people look at fortune like as the money and, and the riches and the powerful, but if there’s something that you want, then you need to, you know, to go out and get after it. Right. because it’s not gonna come to you.

Adriano Carota (27:00):
And for me as a father of three girls, I I’m always pushing my girls. You know, because their gender even still, maybe it’ll be different when they’re, when they’re older, but even still have, could have an impact on them. Right. and so to push them to know that they’re just as equal and capable as anyone else and and to go after it, if you want it, you have to go after it. Right. So I really like that. And maybe I didn’t go after a few things when I was younger that I should have, or even in my early teaching career. But certainly I think that’s important is to, to get up and, and get after it is, is I guess advice, I would give my, a younger self.

Sam Demma (27:40):
That reminded me of this message I heard from Denzel Washington recently. So I’m comparing you to Denzel Washington. He was delivering a, a commencement speech and he said that it, you have, or that desire in your heart, if it’s truly a good one, meaning it’s gonna benefit all people involved that is God’s proof before or before the fact that it’s already possible and already yours, or you wouldn’t have had the idea in the first place. So claim it and start working towards it and your, you know, idea of getting after it. And you know, this idea that fortune isn’t just money and riches it’s any true, good desire in your heart that benefits all parties, if it was to, you know, come to life. I think it’s, yeah, it’s a message that brings me peace when I have an idea that I think is worth pursuing, but I have no idea how to make it happen. I remind me of those ideas and words, but this has been such a cool conversation. And I appreciate you coming on here to share a little bit about, you know, your journey through education, the different twists and turns. If another educator listening and wants to reach out, ask you a question or connect, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Adriano Carota (28:53):
They can, they can hit me DM me on Instagram at it’s @ace_carota, or my email adrianocarota@gmail.com I’m sure you’ll probably post that kind of stuff. But I’m sure if you just do a Google search, it’ll be out there, but yeah, this has been great. It’s, it’s been always great talking to you. You’re you know, we we’ve been having some younger students come into our school for for some exploration and we, we one of the days we start our off their lunch break with your with your video to them and on your, in your path, which is great because it just go out and get after it. Right, that’s the main thing. And, you’re right. If, fortune, happiness is the biggest fortune you could have. Right. and that’s and that’s huge.

Sam Demma (29:43):
Yeah. Cool. Well, Adriano, keep up the great work. I hope you have a white and snowy Christmas this might come out after Christmas and make no chronological sense, but that’s okay. Thank you so much for coming

Adriano Carota (30:00):
It could make sense up here though. It could make sense up here though. Maybe not to Christmas, but to the white stuff on the ground. Yeah.

Sam Demma (30:06):
Yeah. That’s awesome. Well, thanks again. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.

Adriano Carota (30:12):
Well, Sam, I hope you keep up the great work too, cuz you’re a great asset to young people. So keep it up and I appreciate you having me. Thanks so much.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Adriano Carota

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

February 3, 2022 by Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Mike Thiessen – Instruction, Curriculum, & Technology Coordinator at Fort La Bosse School Division

Mike Thiessen - Instruction, Curriculum, & Technology Coordinator at Fort La Bosse School Division
About Mike Thiessen

Mike Thiessen (@MikeThiessen) is the Instruction, Curriculum and Technology Co-ordinator at Fort La Bosse School Division. Over the past 20+ years, he has worked in the field of education as a Curriculum Developer, Teacher, School Principal, and now in his current position as a Divisional Co-ordinator.

He has a deep passion to provide students with safe and enriching learning environments where they can learn to set and achieve goals.  As a husband and a father of four, he enjoys spending time coaching sports, making music, travelling, and golfing. 

Connect with Mike:  Email  |  Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Mike Thiessen
Resources Mentioned

Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast

The Heggerty Reading Curriculum

The Orton–Gillingham Approach

Fort La Bosse School Divison

The BYTE 2022 Education Conference

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Mike welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here this morning. Start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about your journey that brought you to where you are today in education.

Mike Thiessen (00:13):
Hey, thanks Sam. It’s really great to be here. When I heard about the opportunity to sit down with you and, and talk about what I do and also what, you know, have that conversation with you, because I’ve seen some of the stuff that you’re doing, and I was just excited because it’s, it’s an opportunity to be able to talk to people in education and maybe people that just wanna be inspired by educators. So when I heard about this, it was, yeah, pretty exciting. So thank you for inviting me here. Why do I do what I do? Why, what brought me to it here? Well, you know, I started out my career. Oh man, it’s gotta be over 20 years ago now. And so the reason why I’m in education is because I love people. I enjoy hanging out with people.

Mike Thiessen (00:56):
Relationships to me are number one. People are number one. That’s, that’s the most important thing in my life. And, and so when I was younger I worked at a summer camp when I was in my teens and I had the opportunity to work with young people. And I just saw how much of a difference that you can make in a, in a person’s life. If you’re having that opportunity to to speak life into them and to do positive things that are gonna make a difference in their life. And then you watch the changes that can take place and, and how that can actually affect a, a young person. And so that’s what inspired me. That’s why I became an educator because I felt, Hey, I wanna do this every day of my life. I wanna be able to impact kids.

Mike Thiessen (01:34):
I wanna impact young people. And so that’s, that’s the, the journey that took me here was, was starting out in a summer camp. And then obviously I had other major influence series of my life. Like, like my dad, my dad’s a, a teacher, his dad was a teacher. And so I saw the effect that they had and the impact that they had. And so because of that I was inspired to do that and, and, and it’s natural for me. I enjoy, I enjoy hanging out with people. I enjoy hearing people’s stories. I enjoy ma you know, starting relationships and, and making sure that you know, I actually take the time to listen to people and, and get to know who they are and, and, and why they are, who they are, you know? And so that’s, that would be why I’m an educator. Absolutely. Yeah.

Sam Demma (02:15):
Walk me through the camp experience, what that was like for you growing up. And it sounds like it had an emotional impact on, on you, if it really stuck with you and drove you towards wanting to work with kids, walk me through what it looked like.

Mike Thiessen (02:29):
Sure. Yeah. So working at a summer camp, it’s, it’s very unique. It’s not, it’s not your typical summer job. Obviously it’s, it’s one of those where it becomes 24 7, you know, and for me when I first started out, I was, I was 17 and as I was a counselor and, and it becomes a, a 24 7, like I said, you know, you go in and it’s a week. So you’re spending, you’re spending a full week with these, with these kids. And it could be a six year old, seven year old, eight year old, nine year olds, depending on the week. And so you’ve got these little, little guys running around and we’re going from one activity to the other, we’re swimming, you know, they’re, they’re doing archery, they’re riding horses playing games in the field. And it’s really, you know, it’s one of those experiences where you really can’t you can’t replicate it anywhere else.

Mike Thiessen (03:12):
Mm it’s it’s, it’s, it’s very unique and it is it’s own thing. And what we found was that these kids might be coming in from, from really tough backgrounds, you know, like they might be coming from, from areas where you know, where they’re with child and family services and they don’t have a mom and dad anymore. And so they’re, you know, in the foster system and that kind of thing. And so they’re coming in and they might be carrying a lot, a lot of baggage and a lot of hurts and a lot of other things, but they come in and they, all of a sudden they’re able to hear and have you speak life into them and say, Hey, you’re person, you know, like you are worth something. And I value you, you know, when they hear those words, all of a sudden you’d see that smile come on their face and you’d, you’d watch them at the beginning of the week, going from this person who’s, you know, obviously going through a hard time and sad and not, not, not doing well.

Mike Thiessen (03:53):
And all of a sudden at the end of the week, they’re, they’re smiling and they’re happy, and they’ve got this, this, this spring in their step. And so able to be part of that is, yeah, it’s really, it’s really unique. It’s really special. The other piece to that too, is the relationship with the other staff. They almost become your brothers and sisters, you know, because you’re working all together as a team and, and you’ve got one goal and that’s to be able to give that kid that came to that camp, the best experience that they can have. Right. And so to have a team of people doing that and, and hanging out together and, and being able to spend that time together as staff, those are they’re lifelong relationships. Like I’ve got one of my best friends is still, you know, I met him at camp, you know? Wow. And he was one that worked with me and he was a you know, one of those people that had major impact and continuously have a major impact on my life. And so, you know, I look at that period of time and I realize, Hey, that really shaped who I am today. And it’s also steered a lot of the, the career choices I’ve made and, and things that I do. So it’s, yeah, it’s a wonderful, been a wonderful experience for sure. That

Sam Demma (04:52):
Was at 17 years old. At what age did you make your mental decision that you wanted to get into education? Because it sounds like your passion for working with kids and working in a team could have taken you in many different directions, but it took you here. At what age did you make the decision? This is the path I wanna pursue. And what did making that decision look like?

Mike Thiessen (05:14):
I was 19 when I finally said, okay, this is what I’m doing. And so I actually went through a few different phases. I, I tried at a few different jobs. I worked in the area of carpentry, you know, I did some, some plumbing. I drove a truck for a while, so it was an in semi, you know, doing some, some short hauls. So I spent time working with my hands. I spent time doing those, those blue collar, you know, getting out there and, and working hard. And it, and I’m, I can, I can do that. I don’t hard work, like that’s, I grew up on the farm. So I, that that’s not an issue, you know, I actually enjoy it. I, I like working with my hands. But it was, yeah, it was through the experiences at camp.

Mike Thiessen (05:52):
And then it was through talking to other people. And then just realizing that you know, what, education holds an opportunity where you can make impact, and it can be a daily job. You can make a living in doing it, but at the same time, you’re actually able to make change. And so it’s not just going to a job and doing something so you can get a paycheck it’s actually going and making a difference. And then, yeah, the paycheck is it’s important, right? Cuz that’s what keeps you going. And it makes you can buy house and pay for food and all that. But that isn’t the main focus. The focus is actually what you do, you know, that, that daily getting outta bed, why do I do what I do well be so I can make an impact so I can make change.

Sam Demma (06:29):
You got me curious, because you mentioned your dad really inspired you to get into education. And then what I didn’t know about you was that you grew up on a farm. Did he do both roles? Like, was he a farmer and also an educator? Tell me a little bit about your father and how he had an impact on, you know, your decision to get into teaching.

Mike Thiessen (06:46):
Yeah, absolutely. So growing up, dad, he, he started out as a farmer. Yes. and then he went into university a little bit later in his career. He would’ve been in his thirties and it was, it was during that time when farming was getting a little bit tough, we had a few years of, of drought and then prices were getting a little higher and, and interest rates were getting higher. So dad had to go back to school and he actually became a teacher. He, he enjoys people. He, he, he actually was a, he worked as a, a minister as well, a pastor in a church. And so he did three things growing up. And so yeah, so the, the teaching piece was actually just it was, it was part of because he was very good at it and, and because he enjoyed it, but it was also because he needed to put bread on the table.

Mike Thiessen (07:27):
And so that was something that you know, he, he enjoyed doing it and he went and made it a career and he farmed at the same time. So for me growing up yeah, being on the farm, learned a lot of those skills, but then a also seen, has dad worked hard, you know, he’s give going hard every day. And, and so for him to be able to to do a good job teaching and do farming and, and take care of us as kids and, and mom obviously was a huge part of that as well. My mom obviously was his partner and, and, and working alongside of him with that too. But yeah, they, they definitely had an impact on, on the reason why I became, you know, a teacher and, and went into the education field for sure. Yeah.

Sam Demma (08:04):
The field itself looked a lot different over the past two years than maybe it did for your first 18 or 19 years, depending on how long you’ve been in education. What were some of the challenges that you personally faced and saw your colleagues and peers go going through? And now that we’re kind of coming outta that time period, a little bit slowly. Mm-Hmm what

Mike Thiessen (08:25):
Are some, we’re not there yet? We’re not there yet. but we are getting close. We’re getting close.

Sam Demma (08:30):
Yeah. What are some of the exciting things or opportunities you’re looking forward to, and then also some of the challenges you guys are all you’ve all been faced with.

Mike Thiessen (08:38):
I think for, for educators right now what I’m looking at and I’m, just, I, I feel very thankful for the people that are in the field, because I feel like they do have a heart for, for what they’re doing. Yeah. So that part, I, I wanna say first, I, I have full respect and unbelievable. I I’m blown away. Like I, I just, I, I, I, I, every day I look at what educators are doing and the things that they’ve done over the last year and a half, and I’ve just huge respect for every single one of those teachers who’s in that classroom and doing what they do, because it hasn’t been easy. It hasn’t been one of those where oh, just another day, you don’t like, know it’s every day you wake up and it could be different. You, you could be, you could be shifting, you could be changing something within your classroom.

Mike Thiessen (09:21):
You might have a new protocol that you have to put in place or a new rule or, or something physically that you have to change within the classroom. So I have huge, huge respect for teachers for that. I think the next big challenge that I see coming, and, and like I said, I, I totally respect everything that’s been done, but because of all these challenges that we face, I feel like there are some gaps in learning it’s that have come through this. And, and it’s because we’ve had to move to remote learning. We’ve had to you know, maybe change the way that we do our teaching within the classroom. And so what we’re seeing now is that there are some gap gap, and it’s not the full 20 students that are in classroom or 30 students that are in the classroom.

Mike Thiessen (10:00):
We’re seeing it, that it might be that 40% or, or 30% of the students have, have these gaps that normally probably wouldn’t have been there as predominantly. We wouldn’t have seen them as, as, as, as, as a big of a deal. And so I think that’s our next big challenge is how are we gonna find ways to hold those students and have them so that they can make make graduation so that they can get to level prior to even, you know, hopefully within the next couple of years and, and we can sprint and get them up to that spot where, where they need to be. And so I think that’s our next big two out is to find ways to, to, to bring those students up that, that need it, and that have already fallen behind a bit because of this, this last year and a half of COVID and, and the struggles that have gone through that.

Mike Thiessen (10:49):
The nether big thing is taking care of each other. We need staff to be able to pull together. We need to be teams. We need to make sure that we encourage each other and we’re looking out for each other. And we also need to realize that we’re gonna still need to work hard, you know, like we can’t, we can’t just take a whew, a breath and, and, and relax, like, yes, we do need to find ways to recharge, but let’s recharge so that we can run. Yeah. Not so that we can come back into the classroom and, and just kind of me and, and, or through the next year and a half, cuz we actually are gonna need to work. There’s a lot of work to be done and it can be great and it can be done. But we’re gonna have to recharge ourselves and make sure that we’re healthy ourselves in order to do

Sam Demma (11:27):
That on the flip side, what are some of the things you are extremely excited about seeing I know you’re hosting the bike conference. You sound like you’re somebody who’s extremely passionate about how technology can be integrated in the classroom. You’re also someone who loves hockey and is excited about the fact that students are slowly starting to get back into sports. Tell me about some of the exciting things you’re seeing and hoping will continue to happen in the future.

Mike Thiessen (11:58):
Yeah. So some of the stuff that’s going on in the, in the schools and with our students is that yes, we are doing, you know, we are doing school sports within the cohorts, of course. And obviously using, you know, COVID restrictions and doing what we need to do there. But we’re getting back into it, you know, like we’re actually being able to interact with each other a bit and, and we’re back in the classrooms. Yes, we’re wearing masks while we’re in the ma classrooms, but we are in the classrooms. It’s not remote. You know, those things are exciting to me like that, that means we’re actually able to, to be human. We’re able to be around each other relationships. I’ve said it before. They’re number one, it’s always about relationships. And without those relationships you can’t you can’t do the things that we do as educators.

Mike Thiessen (12:41):
It’s not as effective. Yeah, it can, there can be teaching that takes place without relationships, but not effective teaching. Yeah, it has. We have, it starts there, it starts, it starts being able to interact and, and making a difference within people’s lives. And so when I look at at the future I get excited about the skills that we’ve built because of the challenges we faced. Right. Hmm. Cause there having been quite a few, like you talked about technology, we’ve learned a lot of new, great tools and we’ve learned how to use them. And as teachers I’m watching, as people who have never used Google classroom before, whereas a learning management system, all of a sudden became experts within a year and a half, you know, or people who with an office 365, they’re not afraid to, to fire up teams and have a, a meeting with, with other people and to be able to do that video conferencing call.

Mike Thiessen (13:27):
So and you and I we’re, we’re in different provinces right now, you know, and we’re sitting down and having a conversation and, and talking about education may not have happened two years ago. And so when I look at what COVID has, has presented as challenges yeah, that wasn’t fun. I don’t ever wanna go through that again. But I’m so thankful for the things that we’ve learned and the things that we can use as, as skills for the future. They may not be used every day. I hope they aren’t you, but let’s use them for the good that we have, you know, and, and not, and not just dismiss it as something that has passed, but it’s like, Hey, yeah, let’s build on that. And that’s, let’s continue to move forward on those things. One thing that I’ve noticed too, is with social media, taking off in the last five years and things like TikTok and, you know, shorts on YouTube and things like that.

Mike Thiessen (14:12):
I’m watching as, as students who are growing up, they’re almost becoming producers and editors and those types of things. I’m really excited to see what’s gonna happen when they walk into the classroom, you know, 10 years from now. And even some of these young teachers that are coming in, people that are your age, right. They’re gonna walk into the classroom and they’re gonna have this set of skills that I didn’t have because we didn’t have social media. When I was first starting out as an educator, we didn’t have a lot of these tools that you have even podcasts, things like that. Those weren’t even there back then. And so to be able to see all these great tools that have taken and broken down all these barriers in the walls, now we can use them in the classroom and, and use it for learning and it can be part of what we do.

Sam Demma (14:49):
And it’s just a different perspective, right? I think having access to different schools, going through different experiences gives you a different perspective and potentially a young, a younger teacher or the next wave of teachers will walk into the classroom and reimagine things too. Right. Absolutely. The same way that you would’ve reimagined things when you started 20 years ago or slight changed and adjusted, and along your journey, teaching, working in education, I’m sure there’s been some really helpful resources you’ve had along the way, whether it be people maybe even courses, books, like if you had to pick a couple of those things to share that have been very helpful for you and your own journey what would some of those things be?

Mike Thiessen (15:37):
For me, I would say wow, there’s so many of them, right? Like, and, and there’s people that have been involved in all of that. One that’s been really impactful for me this year. And I’ll, and I’ll stick to it. Cause I think it’s making a change currently in our, in our school division and within the, within our schools right now is that phenomic awareness and phonological awareness. And this is for early literacy. We’re talking about students that are just learning how to read. Mm. And if I was to ask somebody, what’s the most important skill that a child is gonna learn, whether they’re two years old, all the way, three to 21 years old, what is, what is gonna be the most important skill? And I think most or many people would say reading, we need to know how to read.

Mike Thiessen (16:20):
Like, that’s, I know it’s a basic skill and we kind of take it for granted sometimes, especially here in Canada, because our literacy rate is so high. Right. And so we look at reading as being something that is just, yeah, that’s gonna happen. Right. And so what we’re seeing is, and, and especially this fall and in even last year was we were, we were noticing that a lot of our, our students coming into our schools they were missing that ability to rhyme, to blend, you know, sounds. And it’s just those basic basic skills that we thought. We would just take them for granted and just assume that they would know how to do it. And so we’re watching as, as large chunks within our classroom, don’t have those skills. And so we’ve been looking at there’s a researcher Haggerty. Who’s been doing, doing research around anemic awareness and that’s program that honestly, it’s making an impact and it’s changing a lot of the, the teaching that’s going on in our, and it’s only, you know, it’s only taking 10 minutes, 15 minutes in a day with these students that are 5, 6, 7, 8, a nine years old.

Mike Thiessen (17:14):
So grade 1, 2, 3, 4. And it’s only just doing a very short amount of time with these students. And we’re actually watching, as these students are making huge gains in their, their reading levels in their, their spelling. And then we’re also, we’re using a little bit of another program that we’re using as Orton Gillingham for, for dyslexia and we’re, and it’s actually using it with, in the classroom as a whole as well. And we’re watching as, as it’s making a difference in, in this reading. And it’s the, these two programs that right now for me are very exciting because it’s actually, I’m watching as, as we look at the research and we look at the numbers, it’s making a difference. It’s, it’s actually, it’s changing the abilities and the skills for these grade 1, 2, 3 students, and it’s making it so that as teachers we’re actually able to have some breakthroughs.

Mike Thiessen (17:59):
And I talked about sprinting earlier and about being able to move forward, this is gonna help us with some of those gaps. We’re gonna be able to move forward with that, cuz once the student’s not to read now dig the next step. You need that as that base. If you’re in grade three and you’re not able to read yet, it’s gonna be pretty tough to cover some of the science and social studies and some of the other curriculums that you, you need to cover. So yeah, so that’s, that’s a big one for me right now is that program right there.

Sam Demma (18:22):
That’s awesome. Thank you so much for sharing. It sounds like it’s making a massive impact. I can’t wait to continue to hear the ripples of that.

Mike Thiessen (18:31):
and it’s in early stages. Like we have some teachers that are really excited about it and jumping on board and I’m really hoping that it’ll and it, and, and it’s, we’ve got a good group and I’m hoping it’ll spill over into, you know, the, the rest of the school division, not just one or two schools, I think we were at about three or four schools that are working on these programs and it’s, it’s making an impact. It’s making a difference and it’s, it’s exciting and it, and it’s doing it because it is working. That’s why it’s spreading. That’s why it’s moving. And, and it’s because it is actually helping students be able to read.

Sam Demma (18:59):
Ahead from your experiences at camp. Yeah. You mentioned one aspect of it that was awesome. Was working together as a team and that’s something that leave is also so important in education, but in anything. Yeah. How do, how do you make sure that all the staff and like from a school are unified and on the same page, you know, working cohesively and together, is it about again building relationships and trust or like, how do we ensure that that happens in a, in a school

Mike Thiessen (19:33):
It’s, it’s a culture, right? It’s something that it happens within and it’s because, and, but it has to be done through effort. Yeah. You know, like we, we know that it does take effort. It does take, it does take some planning and it, and it’s interesting because leaders that, that do it well it ha happens naturally just because it’s who they are in, what they do. And part of that is like you talked about coming together as a team and what does that look like? Well, it’d be that conversation before or after class with a teacher between a school administrator and a teacher or between another teacher mm-hmm it’s that pre COVID that high five and the hall, you know, back when we could do fives, then we’ll get back there someday. I’m sure. It’s, it’s that you know, right after classes are done and one of those teachers, you can just see they’ve had a tough day and you walk over to them and you say like, Hey, Hey, how you doing?

Mike Thiessen (20:25):
You know, what can I help you with what’s what’s going on in your classroom? And it’s that, that reaching out and saying I need help in this area. What did you do with this day? And I noticed he was off today. What was, what was the methods or the, the strategies that you used it’s it’s that collaboration and teamwork. And like I said, though, it starts, it starts from leaders. It really does like leaders. We have to watch and see what’s going on within, within our staff. And we have to monitor that what’s that environment look like is there, is there, is there positively having, you know, are people encouraging each other? And then you have to take time as a leader. You have to either write that note and say, Hey, you’re doing a great job. You know, I really appreciate what you did.

Mike Thiessen (21:02):
I saw what you did with that student. And it was amazing keep doing that. You . And so when a person hears that and when it comes from a leader what happens is they feel inspired and they feel like tomorrow, I’m gonna do that again. You know? They might know, and you might say it verbally, too, that can make a difference as well. I, I listened to a leadership podcast and, and one of the, the gentleman that was talking about Greg Rochelle actually is, is the name of the gentleman. And, and one of the things he says is, you can’t say, thank you enough. You know, if you’ve, if you’ve said it, once you gotta say it again, like, it’s one of those where it’s like, if you think you’ve said it enough times, save it another 10 times, you know?

Mike Thiessen (21:37):
Yeah. Like it’s one of those things where you have to encourage people. And if you think you’ve done it enough, do it 10 more times because people need to hear that they need to hear that positive reinforcement. And they also have to hear that you do appreciate them. And so I think that’s where it starts from, and that’s where you’re gonna have that teamwork and, and that coming together. And then the other piece that I would encourage is those people that are part of a team, never, ever, ever tear somebody else apart. That’s part of your team, all that will do is just tear you apart because that’s, that’s your teammate. Like if you’re out there and there’s 20 people on a, on a hockey team and you decide you’re gonna go and hit one of your linemates while he’s out there on the ice with me and, and you decide, okay, you know what I’m gonna stop him from getting the puck, cuz I want the puck you’ve you’ve basically taken a team game and you turned it against itself.

Mike Thiessen (22:21):
It’s not gonna happen. You’re gonna lose the game, guaranteed. It’s exactly the same. If you ever tear somebody else down in the staff room, or if you talk behind somebody else, that’s exactly what you would be doing is you’d be destroying that team. And you’re actually destroying yourself when you’re destroying your team member. And so my biggest encouragement to, to staff members would be like, Hey, if you, if you have something that needs to be talked, yeah. Go talk to that person, but do it in a very constructive yeah. Way, but never behind their back or to somebody else or tear down the team because that’s, that’s the worst thing for it. And then it, it would just cause Ascension and it would cause make it so that it doesn’t work. So as a leader, you gotta be sensitive to that too, to make sure that you are always very much you can be truthful. Absolutely. But you have to be careful about who you tell things to or what you talk about to, to your, your staff members and, and, and the people that work for you. And, and make sure that it’s done in a very constructive and a, in a positive weight and, and where we’re moving forward and we’re doing, what’s what’s best for the team itself. And, and obviously at the end of the day, that’ll be the best for kids.

Sam Demma (23:17):
Rochelle sounds like a familiar name. Do you recall the, the name of the podcast?

Mike Thiessen (23:23):
Yep. It’s the leadership podcast.

Sam Demma (23:26):
Leadership podcast. Yeah. , that’s awesome.

Mike Thiessen (23:28):
Yeah. And he’s phenomenal. He’s got huge subscriber base and, and he does one every, I believe it’s once a month, he has a, a leadership podcast podcast and highly recommended it’s it’s very good.

Sam Demma (23:38):
All right. Awesome. Yeah. And if you could travel back in time, speak to, you know, 19, early, 20 year old, Mike, who’s just getting into teaching and education, but with the wisdom and advice you have now, mm-hmm, looking back. What would you tell yourself? Or what advice would you give yourself?

Mike Thiessen (23:59):
I would say the biggest one would be focus. That would be it. Yeah. Focus on your goals and make sure that when you spend your time doing what you’re doing, have purpose, purpose, and focus. I think we can do, there are so many opportunities and there are so many great things we could do. It’s important to actually sit down and say, okay, which one is the one that’s important? Yeah. Which is the one that’s gonna have, have the impact, which is, which is the opportunity that’s gonna, I’m gonna look back on and say, okay. But I’m glad I made that choice. I’m glad I did what I did. And so if that would be the advice I could, I would give that to the advice for the 40 year old Mike as well. , you know, like I don’t think that ever stops.

Mike Thiessen (24:43):
You know, just because we are gonna have our opportunities, we are gonna get up in the morning. We’re gonna look at their at our day and say, okay, what is it that we’re accomplishing or our week or a month? And I would say, let’s focus on, on what’s important. Let’s not let let distractions or, or things that could be good, get in our way or cause us to choose something that’s second best. Let’s let’s focus on what’s what’s best. And look at your vision. What is your vision? Is it accomplishing your vision?

Sam Demma (25:10):
That’s awesome. Focus is a huge component. I think of anyone striving towards any outcome. So, yeah, it’s a good constant reminder. Always. Mike, thank you so much for coming on the podcast, sharing some of your experiences, stories, resources, this was a great conversation. If someone listening would like to get in touch with you, what would be the best way for them to reach out, send you a message or ask a question?

Mike Thiessen (25:37):
Probably Twitter. I think that’s probably the…I don’t have a lot of social media. You know, so I think the one that’s that’s out there in public and people could probably access me the best would probably be Twitter and I’m @mikethiessen So that would probably be the best way to go. You can DM me on there or follow me on there.

Sam Demma (25:54):
Awesome. Mike sounds good. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.

Mike Thiessen (25:59):
That’s awesome. Thank you, Sam. It’s been fun.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Mike Thiessen

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 31, 2022 by Education Consultant Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Natasha Daniel – Program Coordinator at MCG Careers Inc and Certified Career Development Practitioner

Natasha Daniel - Program Coordinator at MCG Careers Inc and Certified Career Development Practitioner
About Natasha Daniel

Natasha Daniel is a bilingual (French and English) project manager in the Youth Skills and Employment Program at MCG Careers.  A Certified Career Development Practitioner, Certified Work-Life Balance Coach, Certified Strengthening Families Coach and a Trained Trauma-Informed Community Facilitator with a strong passion for community and working with people.

Her passion for empowering others began while working as a Trainer and Restaurant Manager for Burger King Canada, working as an Educator in an Adult High School and working in Human Services managing programs. 

In 2013, after several years of gaining expertise in Program Management, Career Development, Family and Youth advocacy in Montreal, her family relocated to Edmonton. Joining MCG Careers in 2013 with a wealth of knowledge she believes her career has further evolved in program management and process managing while empowering youth to increase their strengths, become more resilient and accomplish goals through the REBRAND PROGRAM.

She is motivated and driven to excel by incorporating a hands-on approach. This allows her to focus on the needs of others and their potential which results in stronger engagement, trust and stronger relations with stakeholders and the community. She loves bringing awareness and educating individuals in areas related to career and employment, mental health and any aspect to enhance one’s wellbeing.

Passionate about human relations and volunteering, she is instrumental in bringing strategies and resources to Non for Profits by serving on different boards and volunteering on Youth projects.  Natasha enjoys learning and is constantly broadening her knowledge through training and certifications. Natasha spends time honing her creative skills by writing poems and loves working around fun people.

Connect with Natasha:  Email  |  Linkedin |  Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Natasha Daniel
Resources Mentioned

MCG Careers Website

The REBRAND Youth Development Program

Small Consistent Actions TEDx Talk

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:02):
Natasha welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Please start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about the journey that brought you to where you are today.


Natasha Daniel (00:13):
Thank you Sam, for having me. So my name is Natasha Daniel and I work at a wonderful company called MCG Carrer as an employment center. And I am the youth program coordinator for our program called rebrand. And by the name rebrand, it gives youth an opportunity to rebrand themselves to really change their lives. And it’s a great journey to be on working with youth, supporting them and encouraging them to really be the best that they can be, and really be empowered to realize that, you know, the world is out there, that they can conquer. So that’s called REBRAND. So what led me to the journey of wanting to work with youth and when we say youth, the, the category of the clients that I’m working with there are between the ages of 17 to 30. So that’s the federal go? My definition of youth.


Natasha Daniel (01:03):
And you know, I started working with you very early in my career as a trainer and manager for burger king several years ago. And I had the opportunity to really hire and, and train youth to just maybe in their part-time jobs as they were accomplishing their ed educational goals. And I moved further from there into working in an adult high school, again with youth who are trying to accomplish a high school certification and stuff like that. And, and really seeing that youths need support and that youths are smart. They are innovative, they’re creative and they’re open to challenges and experiences. So that really empowered me to wanna continue working with youth then fostering an opportunity to support them into their career and employment journey.


Sam Demma (01:52):
That’s awesome. So bridge the gap between burger king and MCG careers for us, what was the journey in between that brought you to MCG?


Natasha Daniel (02:01):
So burger, I was my first career, my first employment opportunity in Canada. So I started off with cashier, but I have the passion for learning and I always wanted to be a teacher when I was younger from since elementary school, because I had a wonderful male elementary school teacher, nice. And my passion for learning and reading and all of that. So when I was burger king, I took time to learn everything on the job. So which within two years with working in a company, I was a shift supervisor because I really learned everything that they had to do like managers did and on the operation of the business. And then I just worked my way up into becoming a restaurant manager. So having an opportunity to hire youth more, also youth to wanna work in a fast food you know, in a fast food restaurant, I want, want to get that opportunity to have extra money while they’re studying so high school youth or post secondary youths.


Natasha Daniel (02:55):
And then from hiring, then I started training as a corporate trainer for burger king. So Alberta was one of my places I came to for a couple months to train people. So that’s kind of my part in terms of with youth and then going into when, when I, whilst I was studying for my post-secondary, I went into adult. So working again in the, in the education facility where you are helping people to learn and helping people to get their educational goals and stuff like that. And then I transitioned into community. I used to be a big brother, big sister at, for boys and girls club for many years. Nice. And being a big sister all also really empowered me and, and, and helped me to really understand that younger people need some additional support. And I taught about what can I bring from my experience?


Natasha Daniel (03:49):
What can I bring from my background? What are the values that they have that also Correl to my values and how could I empower them? So always working the community and working families. I had the opportunity to work with families and interventions in the school and child and family services and stuff like that. So again, I saw that, you know, sometimes as a child you mightn’t get the foundation that you need, but when you get into your youthful age, you’ll still require some of those foundational skills to help youth get into a stronger adulthood and life management. And that’s how I’m here at rebrand right now.


Sam Demma (04:29):
I know it makes you upset when people don’t treat youth with the same respect and I guess, general treatment as they might another adult. and I think what’s really awesome is you explained earlier that you, weren’t only focused on people getting jobs and working shifts at burger king, but you were also making sure they focused on their education. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?


Natasha Daniel (04:55):
Yes. And I, I think sometimes in society older, you know, adults, so people in general, sometimes we underestimate the power that a youth have. And we also, there are a lot of biases against young people also, you know in society. And I believe that how could you just be open to learning about a youth and learning that a charity that they come from and how they can contribute to society and how you can support them? So, one of the things I know that was imperative for me was I work at burger king, as education is very fundamental or at least acquire high school education on the first level is important to, you know, looking at a career path possibility or helping you with your learning goals. But I, when I worked at burger king, I wanted to make sure a part-time job wasn’t, you know, the main focus for everyone, you will have to have that life balance.


Natasha Daniel (05:50):
So I believed in life balance from really early. So I supported the students who were to get that life balance by, you can make your money part-time or full-time work, but you can also go to school. So in the, at burger king, we had a lot of post-secondary college students, and I would have them, we kind of opened a little tutor session within our diet, within our our work employee room. And they were free to bring their assignments. And I kind of them with another worker who in college could help so that they can get support and help with their assignments as they were going through high school. And that’s just because also some of the youth, they didn’t have that support at home. It’s very difficult when your parents are just trying to make money to put food on the table. And especially if it’s an immigrant parent also, they really sometimes don’t understand the whole structure of the Canadian system. So their goal is just that I need to feed you. I need to keep the house going, but what about all of the other needs and needs? And looking at the challenges that your, your child might have. And a lot of them didn’t have that knowledge and didn’t have that skillset. So that’s where I kinda stepped in from that early, early times, being in burger king and moved on into community and stuff like that.


Sam Demma (07:03):
Your experiences in burger king, in different community organizations and clubs has all led to the perspective that you have in working with students in rebrand. Can you talk a little bit more about the rebrand program, why it’s so close to your heart and what’s compelled you to continue working on it for the past eight years?


Natasha Daniel (07:25):
So rebrand again, you know, be why is it so close to my head when I came from Montreal to Edmonton and got a job at MCG, they had this beautiful program and it’s so really one of the foundational programs and I, that MTG offers. And I think it’s about 15 years in ENCE in the, in our current employment center. So there’s a great knowledge about the program in Edmonton is a program that a lot of agencies and support workers and stuff they know about because of the strength of the program and how the program helps you. So with looking at rebrand and going through many cohorts and many you know, participants with different challenges and experiences and background, you understand that really youth, they need the support and they need to really be allowed to have the resiliency. And they need that part where they see that there’s more to life in the world, or there’s more to what I could accomplish.


Natasha Daniel (08:24):
And I always say to my youth, like, how do you define accomplishment? Not don’t define accomplishment by society’s, you know, definition of accomplishment, because what did, what have you done? It doesn’t have to be that you’ve gotten a trophy, or you was, you, you were in the, you know, the football team or you had a scholarship and many of them do, you know, they had those, but what other accomplishment, how, what, how do you see accomplishment from your, your perspective and how can you think out of the box and bring those skillset to your life? So with rebrand because rebrand, we allow them to have many experiences in the program by having a mixture of, of training that they don’t get in school. So we focus on the life management and with the life when it comes with the basic things about budgeting, the basic things about, you know, those communication skills, the basic things about being more self aware.


Natasha Daniel (09:22):
So, you know, who are you and what can you bring to the table and how, you know, what part, what are your goals that you wanna accomplish? So we focus on those great ma life management skills now at COVID and a lot of youth, they go through mental health challenges, and sometimes they’ve gone through those challenges from early childhood and, you know, not having the right supports, the challenges, the mental health challenges increase and increase and increase. Yeah. So really getting them to understand that, yes, you can have a mental health challenge, but what is the best strategy that you are going to incorporate? And what supports do you need to really cope with your mental health challenge? Because not everybody who, you know, you do have coping skills when you have mental health and sometimes society label, you, you have mental health, you depressed, but with that, the, you can still achieve something as long as you have the, the right strategies.


Natasha Daniel (10:21):
And as long as you have the support, so rebrand provides all of that to the participants. And then we fo we help them to focus on employment. What skills can you bring to an employer what’s out there that you would like to learn on the job? You know, what are some of, of the values that you have that another employer might, you know, wanna bring into take you on because that value kind of meshes with their work value. And then what are your long term goals? So what are your current goals? So what are your employment goals, or, you know, so what do you wanna go back to school? What would you like to do? So helping them to really have a broad rate of experiences through training, through you know, sessions like having a good motivat speaker, like you, you know, through financial literacy programs first aid, computer programs, computer training, and volunteer experiences, and just basic, you know, everything their experiences an adult might have, or have had to bring them to a successful journey. That’s what we brand helps them. And then we support them in all aspect, as they’re, you know, being trained and gaining more of self and becoming, you know, looking at the path that, oh, I needed this to help rebrand my life to start a new journey.


Sam Demma (11:39):
The name is so appropriate for the purpose of the program, which is so cool. And I’m honored to have been a part of a few of them. And another one this week, I’m always super excited. One thing that I love about the program is the diversity. It seems like the students all come from very different cultures, different walks of life. How do you get through to students, you know, from the get go and make sure that they understand it’s a safe place where they can be themselves and share the truth. Even if it’s one that’s a uncomfortable to talk about.


Natasha Daniel (12:14):
I, I, I believe for myself, it’s just, I’m open. And, and I, I say, you know what being open is the first time. So I’m no longer youth, but I was a youth at one point in time. And I know some of the experiences that they might have might have be maybe a similar experience that I had, or also by my dive first experience in working community, working, you know, with intervention services and all of that, all of the prior work that I’ve done, you know, I let them know that it’s okay. That as a youth, that everything wouldn’t be smooth it’s okay. That you are gonna make challenges. It’s okay. That because you didn’t critically think about the consequences that, you know, like hitting someone in the head, you didn’t critically think about it, and then you gotta arrest for that.


Natasha Daniel (12:58):
And then you got a criminal record is okay. You know, and because of the challenges that you have, it doesn’t mean that your life stops right there. What it is is that, how can you cha take those challenges and make them into opportunities? So when they, when I connect with a youth, you know, it’s just to see I’m here to support you. And let’s have that open dialogue. Let’s talk about, just be upfront, put it on the table, lay on the table. I’ve heard it all. Like I tell him, I’ve heard it all. There’s nothing. I think that you would come and tell me that like might be a shocker with working with youth you know, from the different backgrounds and different challenges. I had a youth who came to Canada from from a, from the con African continent. And this kid was so resilient.


Natasha Daniel (13:46):
And when he had a story of this kid, he was a war soldier at 13 years old. And they him to kill someone and he didn’t want to. And he ran away. He ran from two weeks, no shoes on his feet, in the jungle for two weeks. Wow. To get to the border of another country for safe Haven. Wow. And this kid came into the program, was really resilient, you know, new immigrants. So he had to learn a lot, but he took to the supports and that, that, you know, everything that the program was offering, he got employment. He got a hand of learning how to understand money because his things that I need to work as I had to money for my mom, I need to take care of my family. And then, you know, two, three weeks into the program, he had one of those days where, you know, he was himself and I’m like, what’s up, he’s always a child.


Natasha Daniel (14:46):
He’s like, you know, I just got worried. One of my best friend got killed, trying to escape and trying to leave, you know, the, the world off that they grew up in with all of the hardship and he felt really guilty. And I says, you know what? It’s okay. It’s okay. Because he felt that I got freedom, my friend didn’t. Mm. And I says, you know what? Take a mental health day. It’s okay. You can go home. You can probably go, just call your mom or talk to the people that you need to support from culturally. And when you feel better, come back tomorrow. And so some of these are just some of the small things that allows, because when you give them those kind of supports, then they’re able to start planning the next step forward. And he moved on into employment. And a couple weeks ago I was outside and he is like, Natasha, Natasha.


Natasha Daniel (15:34):
I’m like, who is that is me? Like, what are you doing? He was doing skip the dish, but he’s a university student. Oh, wow. he is a university student. And he was just doing, skip the dish to make extra cash. So that’s just kind of some of the, the, the people that we experience in rebrand. And one of the things that I can say that learning working with youth is youth are so open. There’s never judgment in my classroom. They never judge. There’s so much support from one youth to the other, even though life experiences are different. They are one of the most open, hated group, I should say, within our society that a lot of people don’t know. A lot of people think that they’re lazy. A lot of people think that you’re paying for your games all day long.


Natasha Daniel (16:22):
And a lot of people think that, you know what, they, they just don’t wanna do anything. They just wanna BU around and all of that stuff. I don’t think they use the word bumming anymore. you’re showing your age, be careful. yeah. I don’t think I don’t that they would like, you know, and the thing about working with you, sometimes I say a word and like, like the other lady they said in my classroom, I’m like, what social media? Do you guys, you know apps and stuff, do you guys think that I have, and like, yeah, Natasha, we know you only have Facebook and one of them she’s like, and because you’re from the Caribbean, I know Caribbean, people love to talk to their family members and they only do WhatsApp and like, like yeah, know that, you know, on Instagram, you and I was, and I was like, whatever guys, whatever, , that’s so funny.


Natasha Daniel (17:22):
Yeah. And, and that’s to take, and, and even the fact that sometimes I said, sometimes in rebrand, I said, okay, tell me some of the I’m like, okay, well, let’s just, just, just, just, just write it down a little bit. You guys write some of the words that you say that we probably, that I probably wouldn’t know of, you know? And then they make me a whole list of kind of the, the, the, the pop culture words, and some of the regular words that they use now, so that I can be on the same lingo with them. yeah. , you know, and I think, so these are some of the things that, so for me, it’s just being open with them and making them, letting them know that you know, I’m not here to judge you. I want you, so I never forget that I was a huge, and I know we gonna all, sometimes we messed up.


Natasha Daniel (18:06):
Sometimes we make mistakes. And sometimes we, I says, you know what? I know. I know the days where, when I was in university, cuz I lived in Montreal and New York was right there, leave Montreal on a Friday, go club in Friday, Saturday sat up until Sunday night, you drive back into Montreal, you go to Tim Horton’s bathroom, wash up, you run to class. And then when school is finish on a Monday evening, you crash I’m like, and they were like, what? I’m like, those are some of the experiences, but how do you do things positively? You know, you can still experience live, but how do you do it in a positive way that it can help you increase your life management and become more aware of the part that you wanna go? You know? And every journey is a different journey. There’s so many, you know, youth and rebrand mental health, as I say you know, one of my rebrand pats was actually just from 2019 and this came, he came through the foster care system.


Natasha Daniel (19:09):
And when he came into rebrand, a smart kid, oh my gosh, like, cuz he has all, one of my, one of my coworkers say he reminds of Scooby duke because he was like, you know, bigger than my parents. But he was so he is such a smart kid and he would be there in the classroom. You teach him and is part of his ADHD and all of this FST and everything. But he’s there, he’s probably building a website, but he can tell you everything that you just said. And he wanted to go when we were part of the coach is looking at where do you wanna go? He says, you know, I really wanna do physio, arts. I wanna become a pilot, but I can’t afford it. And I says, but do know that there’s a program here in Alberta because you were in care, they can pay, you know, they can help you with your supports for education. I got him connected. We get to, we apply, we did the forms, we did everything. And he went forward into doing his assessments and everything to go to school as a pilot. So this is 2019 two weeks ago, cuz I’m not on Instagram again. he sent my other coworker, a video on Instagram to give to me, he was crossly he was flying cross Canada. Wow. yeah. And she came and she’s like, look at this. I’m like, what is that? And she’s like your student gauge. I’m like what? She’s like. Yeah.


Natasha Daniel (20:40):
He’s I on Instagram. And he was, he got yeah. And is accomplishing his goal of becoming a pilot. Wow. And this was 2019. Wow.


Sam Demma (20:54):
It, it sounds like the program really helps students lay the foundation for future success.


Natasha Daniel (21:01):
It does. And, and, and, and there, and no there’s by no means I wouldn’t say some of them drop out, but with me I am a high achiever. So from the get go, I, you know, they know that they have all of the supports that I said to them. Like, you know, I’m not working for you. We are working together. Yeah. And that’s my mantra when they come in, like I’m not working for you, we are working together. So with that, we, we have I used to have 12 for, for every four and a half months now I have 10. And for the most part I have eight, eight successful achievers all the time. Nice that they would go through the program, they would go into employment and figure their life part. And the thing about rebrand, because some of them who’s not completed high school cuz there’s a percentage of non high school completers.


Natasha Daniel (21:48):
They probably in school had negative experiences. Yeah. But coming into rebrand, it gives a different shift. Hmm. And then they, so, so for many of them, and I remember one of my UT said, you know what? After being in rebrand, I realized that I can go back to school now. Ah, because they have a lot of assignments that they’re given. There’s still some of the written work and the teamwork where you have to collaborate to the team and come up with ideas and, and you know, and also your critical thinking, what do you bring to this case study? So they do have work. That’s not structured like school, but they do have some work together increasing their knowledge and to get them to really articulate on pair with, you know, on the computers or whatever, what they’ve learned or how they would approach something.


Natasha Daniel (22:36):
And that helps someone who probably had a lot of challenges in school, realize that, you know, what, if I really am motivated and I can recommit myself, I can go back and complete my high school. So that’s one of the things that I know of, of a couple people who struggled in school and coming through rebrand and they realized that, oh, okay. And one of the things they always said, why did we learn this at school? Why did we learn this at school? And I says, you know what, sometimes school doesn’t, but you have the opportunity where you are here to, to, to get supports. And when we talk about what we are looking at now, we have mental health counseling that they can, you know, that we have a counseling session services that that we, the program pays for. They have also supports when they get employment.


Natasha Daniel (23:26):
So everything to remove the barriers from, you know, to keep them out of work. So they have so support for clothing to get them into employment. They have supports, they get bus tickets and stuff like that to help with the transportation. So every little thing that might become a barrier for a youth to not get in a job or not faking a job, the program tried to decrease those barriers. And then another, the other bigger support for them is that in comparison to a youth who has a job search on their own, we help with some of the employment connection. So if you are in the pro, if you are my participant in the program and I’ve seen your computer skills, I get a test, your time management. I know that you ha you have great communication skills. I know that you have a lot of leadership skills.


Natasha Daniel (24:10):
I, when we are looking for employment for them, I would market you to an employer and say, you know, this is such and such. I remember one of my UAN, she had some trauma was going to post secondary. And she stopped because of you know, being a domestic father and relationship. But then after she bounces back with con and all of that, and she she got with one of the employer connections I made. And he left her after three weeks to manage his driving school and insurance business. Wow. Because she had the skills. Yep. But its just that she didn’t know how to really formulate those skills into the language and then demonstrate them in the workplace by having that opportunity. And she excelled at her at her job and she’s still there today, you know? So that’s one of the things that we do with Reba when we have employers who we know, and especially when it’s an employer who have a hat for community, it makes it so much better and so much easier to really support a you to say you could accomplish all of this.


Natasha Daniel (25:15):
You know, I’ve had youth who came into the program and they got promoted from just being a regular employee to manager, warehousing manager. And so getting them to really become more self aware is one of the goals of the program. Because when they’re more self aware, we focus a lot on their strength. And that’s my thing. I wanna focus on your strength. I know you messed up a lot, Sam, but that’s not, that’s not who you are. You know? And my thing I also say to them fail means your first attempt in learning. Mm. So what did you learn from that? What did you learn from the jobs when you wouldn’t get up on time? What did you learn from, you know, and again, and I say to you, Dr. I know that when you don’t have anything to look forward to, you can go to bed at 2:00 AM in the morning, 3:00 AM in the morning.


Natasha Daniel (26:06):
When I try position from Montreal to Edmonton, that was my life. Cuz what, I didn’t have a job. I didn’t have to get up early to go anywhere. So I would stay up and I would be job searching at 2:00 AM, go to bed at three sleep all the way through, get up at 2:00 PM cuz I know my husband’s about to finish. And that’s how I, so it’s natural. And I think people have to admit to all of these things because it’s be, you know, adults do. I did it like I, them, I did it because I didn’t have any set schedule. I didn’t have any programs. I didn’t have anything to look forward to. Hmm. So I know that a you as a youth might do stuff like that, but how do you not stay in the moment? How do you not stay and dwelling it and look forward to something else?


Natasha Daniel (26:57):
And that’s what weand helps them to do. Look forward. I remember I had a tute rebrand. He was gonna have an assessment to join the program and he had finished full secondary doing graphic design. So website design and he forgot his appointment at 6:00 AM. He left me a message and he said, Hey Natasha this is Nicholas. I can’t remember what time is my appointment. But I’m now about to go to bed. Don’t call me during the day, cuz I’m going to bed at 6:00 AM, but you can text me and let me know what time is my appointment. Mm. So then I did call him later on in the day and I says to him, you got the oddity to tell me, don’t call you cuz you’re just going to bed. And, and that’s again, 6:00 AM. He’s going to bed because he’s still of all night playing for your game.


Natasha Daniel (27:49):
And I said to him, you know what, if you want to be in rebrand, you have to change the sleeping habits. Mm. The program is about to sat in two weeks. You’re gonna be in the program. I need you to start going to bed at a regular time. Yeah. So you can be in class by eight 30. Yeah. And you know what? He did it. Then he got his job as a first, as a, as a graphic designer. We got him this job, the kid was so happy and he called me a couple. I think it was last year. And he’s like, I missed you. I’m like, no, no, no, no, no. Don’t miss me. Stay on the job. and him, he, he was so happy to get because after he graduated from post secondary, for two years, he had, was doing nothing, playing for games.


Natasha Daniel (28:32):
He was so happy and was driving well in the job that he moved closer. So he to the employment. So he would have a for time. And I would say, I says, no, don’t call me. Don’t miss me at all. Don’t miss me, me stay on the job. And that’s just some of the small changes that’s required for you. So me saying to him, we adjust your sleep in habit. Because again, if you’re going into employment, I don’t think you’re gonna start. You know, you have to be depending on what way you wanna work, you have to be grounded to really be successful by just doing small, consistent action, which is one of your words. Yeah. Thank you. Consistent actions. Yeah. also a word that I like to tell him now and that small, consistent action is that adjusting my sleep in time. That’s all he needed. Yep.


Sam Demma (29:22):
Be successful. That’s awesome. I, we could talk for like two hours. Thank you so much for taking the time to share some of your stories. One last question. If you could speak to younger Natasha, not that you’re old, but if you could speak to, you know, first year working in the rebrand program, but with the knowledge and experience, you know, now what advice would you give your younger self?


Natasha Daniel (29:49):
What advice I would give my younger self and the advice I would give my younger self is from learning from the rebrand participants. I would tell myself right now, you know, take on more, get out of my comfort zone. Mm. Because I remember like I’m a personal even, you know, I, I get comfortable in my zone and then you know, that’s my zone. Oh. I would tell myself also shine myself, more shine, more like, you know, I write poems, I love writing and stuff like that. And everybody’s like, why don’t you? We didn’t know you. Right. We didn’t know you. Right. why don’t you publish a book and, and that’s just me just staying within my zone. Yeah. You know? And, and so I, soon as I write my poems and I share them more often, so that’s what I would tell myself, just be, get out of the comfort zone.


Natasha Daniel (30:37):
And, and, and this is what this generation of youths are teaching me how open they are and how open they are to new experiences. And not even just owning new experiences, how open they are to each other, like, you know, working with youths who are diverse cultural background, youth who are L G B T youths who have, you know you know, being maybe a criminal record history, two in a gang and they just embrace everybody and they just open to the experiences mm-hmm . So I would, that’s what I would tell myself as a younger, you know, back a youth back, you know, just younger again, like just be open, be more open. Now I became I’m open right now, but you know, if I, if it started back then, like, you know, the younger Natasha, I think I would’ve been like I would, I flourish. Well, I think I would just be like, Hmm That’s awesome. That’s what, and that is just all from, from the experience of working with youth and also you know, I, I, I tell them this now. And it’s just because from my experience was said, don’t let others define who you are. Don’t let others define who you are. You define who you are, because at the end of today, you would want, that has to live with you and not others.


Sam Demma (32:09):
Natasha, this has been a great conversation. Thank you again for taking the time to come on here. I really appreciate it. I look forward to future programs and working with you and the students keep up the great work, happy holidays. And we’ll talk soon.


Natasha Daniel (32:22):
Thank you, Sam. I do appreciate you. You know, I appreciate just, just the work that you’re doing to empower others and, and, and sharing your story. Like I was, you know, the other day when you sent me sent me the, the invite my son who’s nine. He was like, who’s the guy, like I’m gonna do a podcast. And so then he, I, I said, listen to his video, my son listened to one of your TED talks. Oh, wow. He’s into the he’s nine years old. He’s into stuff like this. And then he says to me, mommy on Saturday, he’s like, did you do the podcast?


Sam Demma (32:54):
That’s awesome.


Natasha Daniel (32:55):
And you know, and I, and then I, I was to him. Yeah. So Sam, you know, I think he used to, he used to play football and then my son, he corrects me, like he says, mommy, you know, he played soccer. was not football.


Sam Demma (33:11):
He’s attentive. That’s good.


Natasha Daniel (33:13):
yeah. Oh no, no. I, I was like, so I said to him, you know, like, so that’s just to show you, I don’t a nine year old kid is also empowered by what you do. Ah, thanks for sharing that. So I would just say, you know, keep up the good work and the fact that, I mean, coming from Reeb, right. Again, when you come and speak to our youths, a lot of you, they don’t see youths who can bring and shed light to a lot of what they go through. Mm. And this is what, from having you into rebrand from having a young computer instructor, we as MCG, make sure that we have, we get them to get that balance. Yeah. So that they’re not just learning from our experiences, but they also, so learning from people who are dear generation and people who can really identify to what their struggles and what their challenges are, you know, within living in the 21st century as a young person. Yeah. So thank you again for the good work that you’re doing. You too.


Sam Demma (34:19):
You too. And thanks for sharing those stories! We’ll talk soon.


Natasha Daniel (34:22):
No problem. Thank you.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Natasha Daniel

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 28, 2022 by Cooperative Education Education Consultant Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success 0

Pamela Pereyra – CEO & Founder of Media Savvy Citizens and Media Education Expert

Pamela Pereyra - CEO & Founder of Media Savvy Citizens and Media Education Expert
About Pamela Pereyra

Pamela (@aducateme) is passionate about helping youth and adults in their drive for transformative experiences through critical thought, creative expression and hands-on play. Pamela is a leading voice in media education with over 20 years of experience as a designer, trainer, consultant, educator and advocate. 

She is an authority in comprehensive media and digital literacy working with schools, nonprofits and companies to transform learning with media and technology. She has received the 2021 Media Literacy Community Award by the National Association for Media Literacy Education and the 2019 Media Literacy Champion Award by Media Literacy Now. As the chapter chair of New Mexico Media Literacy Now, she advocates for media literacy education for all students. 

Pamela is the founder and CEO of Media Savvy Citizens, which facilitates understanding, positive participation and meaningful media interaction for learners. Their work is centred on building the capacity and resiliency of youth and adults in a changing technological world through media education and technology training, facilitation and consulting through hands-on experience. Media Savvy Citizens worked with 30 New Mexico school districts transitioning them into digital learning into 2020 and 2021. 

She is also an adjunct instructor at the University of New Mexico and holds an MA in Media Studies. 

Connect with Pamela:  Email  |  Linkedin |  Website  |  Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Pamela Pereyra
Resources Mentioned

The National Association for Media Literacy Education

New Mexico Media Literacy Now

The Journal For Media Literacy Education

Media Savvy Citizens Youtube Channel

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Pamela. And I’m so excited to have her on the show here today. Pamela, why don’t you introduce yourself and share a little bit about who you are?


Pamela Pereyra (00:19):
Okay. So my name is Pamela Perrera and it’s Pamela. That is just pronounced in Spanish, just for the people out there who are wondering what’s going on. Yeah. I am the founder and CEO of Media Savvy citizens, which works on media education initiatives and the understanding positive participant and meaningful media interaction for all learners. I’m also I live in the states and I’m the chair of New Mexico chapter chair of New Mexico media literacy. Now, which advocates for media literacy education in the state of New Mexico.


Sam Demma (01:02):
You’re like the media ninja, the media expert. What is media, how do you define and explain media to somebody else?


Pamela Pereyra (01:12):
That is a great question. And I think everybody has their own conceptual ideas depending on like when they were born so when they came into this world and what their experiences are, there’s like media legacy, right? Which is like broadcasting and television and radio and the, but there’s also new media, right? Which is digital technology media. And so media in this broader scope is any form communication that is not face to face. So, if you think about it, any, if it goes through a medium, any communication that goes through a medium is a form of media. Mm. So a podcast is media, a, brand on a t-shirt is a form of media that has a communication, right? Mm-hmm so it’s like a billboard is media, a poster is media and ucell phone is media. And also like all the apps in the cell phone are different forms of me. So like most of what we do in our lives, especially now,uin 2022 and 2022 are, mediated communications. Right? Most of the work that we do, even our schooling is through mediums. Right. We go on the internet, we search things. We, participate in social media. We take pictures, we share, means all of those things are media and mm-hmm.


Sam Demma (03:01):
Yeah. It’s, it’s a big concept.


Pamela Pereyra (03:05):
It is a big concept. Right. So literacy like media literacy, right. Is being literate, being able to read and really read in like a conceptual way. Right. So being able to like, understand how these, all these different technologies work how we participate with them, how we act with them and also like you know, how we create with all of these technologies, right. So we can be passive or we can be active depending on our mood.


Sam Demma (03:39):
And I think whether you’re passive or active with the media, it’s important that you understand how it works and you understand, and are aware and media literate, like you’re saying, why do you think it’s important that someone is media literate or, and understands media?


Pamela Pereyra (03:58):
Well, we’re bombarded we with media, right? We live in a mediated world. We have people who are creating messages for us with different intentions. Right. And are they, and being aware and just taking the time to reflect and understand, is this a fact, is it an opinion, am I being persuaded who think a certain way or behave in a certain way? And so part of that, like media literacy is just taking a moment, you know, and taking a, a, you know, breathing space to understand what is happening. And also like, am I gonna participate? Am I gonna share this information? And if I share, how does that impact people? So yeah. And so like, is it not, you know, important to understand the world in which we live and the world in which we live is, is impacted by all different forms of communication, whether it’s entertainment or whether it’s work related and doing any kind of internet search, you know, or working like a two or three year old who have, you know, who are given tablets, right. These are tools that we use. And so being media literate just makes us a stronger, more engaged citizen, conscious of what’s happening and possibly even a more engaged in civics and possibly society and our democracies.


Sam Demma (05:27):
What got you inspired to work in this vocation to spread media literacy as much as you can, because it’s important work and you’re obviously extremely passionate about it. So what prompted you to start and get into it?


Pamela Pereyra (05:44):
Well, it’s been a process. I started out back in the nineties as a journalist, I studied communications. I understand, I understood and had studied public relations and like how messages are put together from the ideas of like layout to colors and the psychology of color to influence people, to make them feel certain things, to give, you know, provide certain headline, to engage people to, you know, and so everybody has different motivations, right. For putting messages together. And I realized that I didn’t really wanna do that. I wanted to work with youth and talk about a lot of these things and talk about how media function. And so it kind of started with a, well, it started with me like working in film and journalism and moving in publicity and then realizing I didn’t really wanna be a producer so much as I wanted to discuss a lot of these things with, with youth and, you know, how have a different kind of impact I am a producer, we’re all producers, you know, if we press like that’s producing something, it’s producing a message.


Pamela Pereyra (07:05):
Right. And, and so for me, like really working with students and like getting into a classroom, I did that through a film festival. I worked for this film festival and expanded their education programs. And so I worked with a lot of teens and we made all kinds of media and films and audio pieces, but we also discussed the impact of, you know, FM messages and the impact of media. And I felt like it was a good, well rounded form of like working with youth and seeing how positive, what a positive impact it had on teen’s lives and how they were thankful, you know, for being, going through the process and, you know, discussing things that for them felt really real and like authentic and things that were relevant to them. And so that has been, my driving force is really working with teens and seeing like the impact, you know, that that being media literate can have on people. And so I have not stopped because I feel like it helps, there is like a balance there, right? Like if we are just sitting back and only consuming, what does that do for us, you know, as a society. Right. So it’s great to consume. It’s also great to produce, and it’s great to do both and to consume with a consciousness and an awareness around like what’s happening.


Sam Demma (08:42):
It’s important, regardless of what subjects students are learning in school that they’re taught and explained, I think in some sort of context with global awareness with what’s going on in the world with media literacy. And I’m wondering what you think some of the key concepts are that you can pull from media literacy and, and apply to classroom learning that maybe an educator listening to might explore, look into or think about how they could tie into their own classrooms.


Pamela Pereyra (09:13):
Yeah. Well, media education fits into any subject, right? Yeah. Whether you’re working with math and like graphs and data and statistics, or whether you’re working in a social studies classroom or a English language arts classroom, or a health classroom, there are different concepts that educators can different concepts that educators can implement in their classroom. So there are different ways. So one of ’em is like, before I get into some of these concepts, one of ’em is like using media as a, as a way to like spur discussion, right? Like using a video or, you know, using media in the classroom and, you know, discussing things, making media, like making a video for instruction. So the educator can make a video for instruction or an educator can ring in media and like work on different projects and have students participate with that media as a learning tool and then even make, there are little podcasts in the classroom about like what the reflection was.


Pamela Pereyra (10:29):
Right. So when looking at different media we have like to discover meaning and it is, we go through a series of like questions. So there are like five major, key media literacy questions to look at. And this is like when you’re studying different ideas. So let’s just say somebody brings in, in a math class, a statistic and an infographic, right. On something, whether it be math class or science, I mean, it could be COVID right. So it could be like a COVID related science message and, and statistics. Right. So you, you could look at it from different way, but one of the things that you would look at the first one would be author and authorship who created the message, like who is the author who paid for that message. That’s also part of the authorship, right? Like where is this message coming from?


Pamela Pereyra (11:34):
So that’s one, the other the other thing would be purpose. Like why did somebody create this message? Were they trying to inform, were they trying to entertain? Were they trying to persuade have you think a certain way or act a certain way. Right. So discovering purpose, symbols and techniques is another, like, what symbols are they using? What techniques are they using to, to hook you, to hold your attention? So this may be you know, it could be D different words that are being used, different length, which like is their language loaded, is are the symbols like, are they using certain colors, like lots of red? Are they, you know, like, you know, what, what symbols and techniques are they using? If it’s a YouTube video are people you know, using sources and do, you know, does the information is the, you know, you’re looking at context as well, right?


Pamela Pereyra (12:43):
So like what are those techniques, even within like a, a YouTube video or something like that. Right. So then you’re looking at representation, point of view, whose point of view is this coming from? Right. So is this point of view whose point of view is being presented and who’s this not like who’s being represented and who’s not, you know, if you’re looking at a historical piece of writing to look at point of view is like fascinating. And, you know, when you bring in the concept of global right. A global world in which we live, and especially since we’re living in a network world, we are, we are, you know, global, right. So we are way more connected to anybody anywhere in the world and at the touch of a fingertip or cell phone. Right. so we are looking at like, what it, you know, what, what historical perspective would they be presenting this information from, if you’re so that’s representation, right.


Pamela Pereyra (13:49):
If you’re looking at different messages, right? Like, or a text and a history book, where is this text coming from? Mm-Hmm so you are really kind of decoding in order to code, right. It like looking at all this stuff, the, the last part would be interpretation. And like, what did I learn from this message? Like, how did that change me? How did, how might different people interpret a message? You know, being a woman and being a brown woman in my interpretation of certain messages are sometimes just the frame in which I look at my world, come from that place. Also being media literate, I continually continually ask questions of any, you know, infographic or piece of data, where did this, where’s this coming from? Is this credible? Is it not like who’s the author, you know, all of those things, but also you can have, like, teachers would have students make a certain infographic, right.


Pamela Pereyra (14:46):
For a, a science class or a, and so understanding the process of what goes into media making and also deconstructing the, to then construct, right? Like, why am I making this infographic? Who I, who am I whose point of view am I representing? Even with numbers and data, people represent a point of view. And so it’s like, seems a little bit kind of hard to conceptualize, but going through a process of like practice and practicing these, these questions like where you ask the questions and you decode, but then you also encode, right? You also code these things. You also can make an infographic. You can make a meme, you know, know and make it funny and make, you know, and bring that into learning and talk about point of view, you know, in a, in a meme, or you can pull a meme and kind of deconstruct it as a form of text.


Pamela Pereyra (15:43):
So a lot of what we do is like bring in these PE pedagogy, right? The pedagogy in the classroom and have teachers go through this process of like becoming and embodying the concepts of media literacy so that you know, where they’re consuming and decoding, but they’re also constructing so that then they can like help their students construct for the classroom for learning. There are more concepts, you know, and some of ’em are like media construct, our culture, you know, they shape culture, right? Mm-Hmm and media messages, do they affect our thoughts or attitudes or actions? They are, are most powerful when they operate on an emotional level and have emotional power. They Def always reflect the point of view, right. They always reflect the values, the viewpoint and intentions of media makers. Right. So anybody who’s making a message has a point of view that they’re shared and they have values and viewpoints.


Pamela Pereyra (16:56):
And so understanding that is important. So media messages contain texts, but they also contain subtexts. So what that means is there’s like what is said, but is also what is not sad was like implied. Yep. Right. So these are like, this is part of that framework for media literacy and like kind of going through a process of using media, but also like when I have students in, in the classroom, when I have students make something like, let’s just say, we’re gonna all make memes today and we’re gonna make memes on, you know, any subject matter that would be relevant. That is being studied. Like we’re making memes on the American revolution. So you study the American revolution you make, possibly will make a mean, but then you deconstruct a memes and understand like, what is a mean, you know, and what, you know, and, and how do they function to be able to make a meme, but then it’s related to whatever is being studied.


Pamela Pereyra (18:02):
Right? Mm-hmm so it might be related to the American revolution. And you know, what, if you, okay, everybody make a meme from this point of view, or from that point of view, make a meme from the point of view of a revolutionary or make a meme from a different point of view. And so it really helps bring, drive home the concept of like, what is being studied, but also that, like the understanding that there are different points of view and that there are different authors and there are every author has a purpose. Yeah. And every per, you know, and every message can be interpreted in a certain way. And so those are some of like the conceptual pieces that we put into practice, right? These are just like theory, right? These are concepts, but then to put them in a practice and to really bring that have teachers, like when we work with teachers, we have teachers use a lot of these concepts. They go through a process of a hands on decoding and then a hands on like making stuff. And it’s really fun. And they, they get to plan, you know, a lesson, they take a lesson and maybe like revamp it and be, make it media literacy focused. Uand that’s always really fun for teachers because they get to like sit down and like plan and figure out like, how can I make this more of a media literate lesson when I I’m already it’s some that already exists. Right.


Sam Demma (19:33):
Tell me more about the importance of the author. I think that’s a really cool concept. And I’m curious if any examples come to mind where you think it would’ve been very helpful for society to know who the author was of a certain message. I think about nutrition. And, and I watched a couple of documentaries on, and this is two years ago, and this is also, again, if I asked myself these questions, I would’ve had a better perspective on the documentary itself, but it was a documentary about not being vegan, but it was a document tree on reducing our intake of meat. And they started showing that behind most of the dairy and meat industry is like one sole company or like one massive company that has like 50 brands under it. And it’s like really one author. But then if I ask myself who made the documentary, there’s a whole other author who made, who made that with a whole different purpose. I’m curious why you think it’s so important that we ask ourselves who the author is when consuming a piece of media.


Pamela Pereyra (20:44):
I mean, this is like, authorship is like, it’s huge, right? Yeah. So, and a piece of media could be a lot of different things, right? Yeah. You were watching a documentary. And so to have that understanding of point of view, right? Like it’s all kind of related. Yeah. Because the author has a point of view. Right. And it’s made for a purpose and the purpose of that documentary for you, it was possibly made. So people could stop eating meat and become vegan because they were influence and it was meant to influence people to feel certain things. So they showed you certain images, those are symbols and techniques. Right. And they were presenting a certain point of view that was who have you be against eating meat. Right. Yeah. And so understanding the author really helps you understand the message right. And where it’s coming from and why it’s being put together.


Pamela Pereyra (21:40):
So when we’re looking at like a post truth world, right. We’re looking at like, what is, you know, when we’re discerning, whether it’s a piece of news, whether it is a presidential speech, whether it’s you know, a meme, a silly meme. Yeah. You know, if you are looking on know a lot of young people get their news from Instagram, right. So it’s like a caption and actually it doesn’t give you the whole story. So you don’t actually get the whole story. You only get a tiny component of it. So that also is like, has almost a different kind of authorship than the actual story. So when you’re looking at author, if you’re looking at you’re also thinking for me, you know, when we dig deeper and you go deeper into this kind of work, we’re looking at bias, right. So we’re looking at like, where is the bias and what is the bias?


Pamela Pereyra (22:44):
And like, even like, if I look at a media or article, right. A news article, the bias, like first I might be looking at like, okay, the author is Sam Demma. Right. That’s the byline, but, and Sam Demma may have written the article, but also Sam Demma works for a certain company. Right. That has certain point of view that they’re, you know, trying to relay. So if you’re looking at, you know, is I always look at, when I look at news, I think about, is this left leaning? Is it right? Leaning? Is it more central? Do these people stick to the facts? Do they not? Like there are a lot of a few different, and for news literacy, there are like media bias fact check. Right. Mm-hmm like, so there’s you can go and look at media bias and figure out like, where’s the bias in this company.


Pamela Pereyra (23:45):
Right. But also like, so you might realize like, oh, this is extreme, right. Or this is right leaning, or this is extreme, left or left leaning. Or this is, you know, they’re presenting news. Especially if you look at news, cuz it’s supposed to be centered, right. It’s supposed to be objective and presenting both sides of the story, but is it trying to influence you still to look at a, in a certain influence you to, to, to lean in a certain way? And so when you’re looking at author, I look at the byline who the person is. I look at the company and who the company is. I look at the bias and what the biases of that company also, like it might be the funders like of different like organizations or companies, like how is this project being funded? Who’s funding it.


Pamela Pereyra (24:38):
And like, where’s the money coming to back up, you know, to back the, that project. And so it’s, you know, it’s, it’s really quite complex because there are many authors to one piece of news or one documentary, like you said, right. So it might be like the person, the director of that documentary and the writer of a documentary, but also like the, you know, like, is it whoever put out that memory, right. Is it like 21st century Fox or is it, you know, Warner brothers or is it Disney? And you know, like who’s putting that out and you know, and so there are, there are many authors yeah. To, to a piece of media, you know? Uso that, and also when you’re looking at stuff that could be,unot credible, I guess, would be the, the right word when you’re looking at information that could be not credible.


Pamela Pereyra (25:37):
That lacks credibility, the lacks validity then is, is important to understand when you’re looking at authorship to know like, how do you find something, whether something is credible or not, how do you know if something is reliable? How do we know if something is valid? And there’s a whole process that we go through, which is gonna take me to train you Sam you’re probably, and you know, like that, because it’s, it’s a process, you know, and it’s practicing the, these skills. Like it’s not a one time shot. It’s not even like a one semester shot. It’s ongoing from kindergarten through college and onward on through your life, you know, to continually practice these skill sets, you know, to ask questions and be curious about media and message and like, you know, and what that is a, a book, a textbook is a piece of media that has a point of view and has, you know, authors and, you know, if, and so who are those authors?


Pamela Pereyra (26:46):
What is their point of view and how is it being presented whose point of view is being presented. So all of that can be decoded from a textbook and also what’s inside that textbook. Right. And so to understand that just means that we begin to understand, like by and begin to understand point of view and representation and begin to understand our world in a different way. When we ask questions, when we go through the process of inquiry, you know, of of communications, right? And like question our world and question our, you know, question the Instagram posts that we see and we, you know, and we question it in a curious way, it doesn’t need to be negative. Yeah. It doesn’t need to be like bad. It’s just like, I, media literacy, doesn’t tell people what to think. It just helps people to go it through a process of how do you go through the process of critical thinking, right?


Pamela Pereyra (27:48):
Yeah. Like, how do you do that? How do you, you know, ask questions of authorship to understand if something is credible or not credible. Right. Got it. And if something is like a conspiracy or not like, how do you figure that out? You know? And there are, and so we have to continually go through the processes. And I do a lot of research. I of like, when I look at an author, I don’t just look at like, who is Sam Demma? You know? I mean, I actually, don’t just look at the author and like read the article I go through and figure out who is the, you know, the author’s name, right? Who is Sam? What is he? You know, what do other people say about Sam? Like, and like, I, what is called what used to be called, like triangle reading. And, but now it’s called lateral reading.


Pamela Pereyra (28:36):
When you do the research and you read across and you open up a bunch of tabs to figure out who is the telling the story about this documentary, like, yeah. Not just like who is the director, but is like, who is this company? And who is, you know, and who are these brands that are trying to influence me to, you know, to drop eating meat and to be vegan and, you know, and what’s, you know, all of that. So I think in the end know, authorship, I know this is a long, you know, I know this is a really long answer, but I think authorship is like so important because understanding who is putting messages together and why really helps us understand what’s credible. What’s not especially right now, you know, and we’re, we’re living and I’m just gonna repeat myself where we’re living in this in a, in a world that is complex.


Pamela Pereyra (29:31):
And it’s hard to understand, like there are a lot of authors there, EV anybody’s a producer, anybody could put, you know, could produce information. And is there information credible? Like when sometimes within a piece, somebody might quote a doctor. I go and figure out, is this doctor who is this doctor? You know, is it a doctor, a philosophy that’s actually being quoted for a, you know, for a scientific, you know, opinion, you know, piece, is this like, so then a doctor of philosophy would then make that person that credible, right. If they’re being quoted in something that just because they’re a doctor, doesn’t make him an expert in COVID, doesn’t make him an expert in like, you know, whatever is that they’re talking about. So even within a piece, I go, I might search different people different because they’re also, you know, part of the whole story.


Sam Demma (30:24):
It, I got it. And media literate, like citizens in society is so important. If educators are listening and want to integrate media literacy more into their classroom, one way they could do it is by going on your website, media savvy citizens, and getting in touch with you but how else can they learn? How, what, what can they read? What other pieces of media have you found very insightful in your own journey of learning about media literacy? any books, courses, videos that you think educators should check out as a, or to start their own journey.


Pamela Pereyra (31:04):
Yeah. And I’m glad you asked that there there’s a lot of information out there. Media literacy has become more and more popular. And just to clarify, there are media literacy is this big umbrella, which looks over news literacy, which is a subset information literacy C, which is also a subset digital literacy, digital citizenship. So depending on what they’re looking at, they’re looking for, they can find different information. Some people call digital media production, media literacy. Well, it’s just like a small component of it, but it’s not all of it. And then, you know, and so, you know, it’s, it’s, I just wanna make that distinction. Sure. Because if you just look up the word media literacy, like you’re gonna find only news literacy or only certain, you know points of view that it’s not the whole scope. So the national association for media literacy education is a great resource.


Pamela Pereyra (32:01):
That is a resource for educators. That really breaks down a lot of these concepts that I talked about, the key media literacy questions and like resources there. They have they put together a journal, which is a journal for media literacy education. I think it’s called. And so they, you know, you can go through them. There are also the I’m the, like I said, I was, I’m the chapter chair for New Mexico media literacy now, but media literacy now is an advocacy organization and they also have a ton of resources on their website. So it’s media literacy now.org. And they have a lot of resources on their website to access different information and courses and different things. And not courses necessarily, but just entities, you know, that are media receive media education entities. So yes, media savvy citizens, which is my project.


Pamela Pereyra (33:06):
We have a lot of resources, our YouTube channel, lots of webinars and different resources on our highlights page that people can access for, you know, for free and different like information specific to media. Like I, the scope of media education. Hmm. Yeah. So those are some places to go to. And, you know, and now if somebody wants to just specifically deal with news, then you know, they’d be looking at news literacy. You know the center for news literacy is a great place, you know, for just news literacy resources, but media literacy overall in general and resources for media literacy, I think is net national association for media literacy education is a great place to start. Sounds


Sam Demma (33:57):
Good. And where can someone send you a message by email online? What would be the best way for them to get in touch?


Pamela Pereyra (34:07):
Yes. Thank you for asking. So Media Savvy Citizens is the name of my entity. And so my name is spelled like Pamela. So they could just email me pamela@mediasavvycitizens.com. You can, most people can just go on my website, https://www.mediasavvycitizens.com/ and go to the contact page. You can, people can subscribe there and they can just peruse the website, my, my events page and my past events page. I have tons of resources there as well. So any talk that I have done this specific piece of in this interview, I will put a link together there once, you know, I get the link. So any interview that like media savvy citizens has been involved in, and there was a lot of information there as well. So as far as resources, and then as far as contacting me, go to the website to the contact page.


Sam Demma (35:12):
Pamela, thank you so much for taking your time to come on the show. It’s been a pleasure. Keep up the great work and all the best in 2022.


Pamela Pereyra (35:20):
Thank you so much. Thanks for having me. I really appreciate your time.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 28, 2022 by Experiential Learning Founder and CEO President Student Success Teaching Tips 0

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