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Sam Demma

Dave Barrett – Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program (OYAP) Coordinator for the Bluewater District School Board and the Bruce-Grey Catholic District School Board

Dave Barrett - Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program (OYAP) Coordinator for the Bluewater District School Board and the Bruce Grey Catholic District School Board
About Dave Barrett

Dave Barrett is the Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program (OYAP) Coordinator for the Bluewater District School Board and the Bruce-Grey Catholic District School Board. OYAP is a School to Work program that opens the door for students to explore and work in apprenticeship occupations starting in Grade 11 or Grade 12 through Cooperative Education, events and community partnerships.

Prior to Dave’s work with OYAP, he was the Project Manager for the Saugeen Economic Development Corporation (SEDC) for 12 years and worked in many different sectors and industries over his career.

Connect with Dave: Email | Linkedin | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program (OYAP)

Pathways to Apprenticeship (Skills Ontario)

What is Co-operative Education?

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest on the podcast is Dave Barrett. Dave is the Ontario Youth Apprenticeship Program Coordinator for the Bluewater District School Board and the Bruce-Grey Catholic District School Board. OYAP is a school to work program that opens the doors for students to explore and work in apprenticeship occupations starting in grade 11 or grade 12 through cooperative education events and community partnerships. Prior to Dave’s work with OYAP he was a project manager for the Saugeen Economic Development Corporation, SEDC for 12 years, and worked in many different sectors and industries over his career. I hope you enjoy this conversation and get a new perspective on future career planning for students with Dave.


Sam Demma (01:28):
Dave, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here with us. Please start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about what you do!


Dave Barrett (01:40):
All right. My name is Dave Barrett. I’m the Ontario youth apprenticeship program coordinator for two school boards both Bruce Grey, Catholic district school board and the Bluewater district school board. So we, I cover all of gray and Bruce counties, which is slightly bigger than the province of prince Edward island. And my job is to encourage students to explore the pathway of apprenticeship through co-op education and the great career opportunities in the skilled trades.


Sam Demma (02:05):
What got you into this work? Why OYAP and why are you the person doing it?


Dave Barrett (02:11):
That’s an interesting question because if you looked at my resume, I’m really not qualified to be doing what I’m doing. However in my previous career I worked in economic development and workforce development was a big piece of that. And it was one of the areas where we’d hear all the time that students weren’t participating in these great career opportunities and not exploring the skilled trades. Well, when I took on this role, I found out many were, but we, we opened up more opportunities for them to do it and tried them in different ways. And then through my role in my community contacts, we’ve created all kinds of, of different events for students to come and try it. It doesn’t matter if they’re on the academic college workplace or apprenticeship pathway, if you don’t try it, how can you know, if this is the career for you?


Dave Barrett (02:55):
So that was where sort of my, my role, my expertise, and my background brought to this. And we’ve just continued to raise the numbers of the number of students who are exploring. I don’t think the skilled trades are for everybody, but I also don’t think university is. And I also don’t think colleges, and sometimes you gotta work for a couple years to figure things out all are great pathways. I just wanna make sure people understand the skill old trades before they start thinking that this isn’t the career for them. Cuz there’s some great opportunities here.


Sam Demma (03:24):
I couldn’t agree more. I think every pathway is a valid option. Every student learner is different. You know, my dad is someone who works in skilled trades and half of my family works in skilled trades and it’s a, it’s a great way to make a living. And if you love building things and working with, and why not?


Dave Barrett (03:42):
The what, but if you never tried it before, when you were in elementary school, how can you, how can you know? Well, I don’t want to take tech when I get to high school. Yeah. So that’s, that’s kind of the, the stuff that we work towards


Sam Demma (03:52):
Now, did you grow up working with your hands and very involved in labor and you know, the trades yourself?


Dave Barrett (04:00):
I’ve had a varied background, so I I’m very upfront with students when I do my my OYAP presentation. Cool. And what I talk about is I’m somebody who gets bored after about seven to 10 years of doing anything . So I did work in construction and started an apprenticeship. And then I worked for a cabinet maker for about five years we were talking, we were, I was on the apprenticeship pathway and thought, you know what? I really don’t wanna do this. Then I bounced around. I got into healthcare and I was actually back in the day, they called them orderly, but I was a PSW in a nursing home, still the best job I ever had, but you know, moved on, did college pathway, cuz I wanted to do other things I worked in for a while. I was actually responsible for apprentices at an auto body shop for a number of years that I managed.


Dave Barrett (04:46):
And then I went into community economic development. So I used the university pathway to get my certifications there. And now I’m an OYAP coordinator and you know, that’s what we talk to students is whatever, whatever pathway you decide now you’re not locked in, you know, use the tool. And I, I, what I try and equate is the pathways are actually just tools. Use the tool when you need the tool. So if you need to do an apprenticeship, do an apprenticeship. If you go, you know what? I think I’m smarter than these engineers then great use the tool of university, go become an engineer and show them and move on in your career.


Sam Demma (05:19):
And how do you think a teacher who is, is not, you know, promoting OYAP and keep in mind, there might be educators listening as well. They’re outside of Ontario. So keep, how would you suggest a teacher promote different pathway opportunities, including the skilled trades to their students?


Dave Barrett (05:38):
I, what I encourage, I talk to my teachers about is I have no expecta that they would understand the skilled traits if they didn’t have family connection to them. Yeah. So use your experts. You know, Mo all teachers pretty well had followed the university pathway. They know it very well. They’re gonna promote it cuz it’s worked well for them. But contact your OYAP coordinator, your tech teachers your community partners and have them come in, cuz they’re the experts in this field. And, and that’s, that’s what we do here is my guidance folks, my student, success, people, careers, teachers all know who I am. They know how to reach me and I’ll come in and present the apprenticeship pathway for them and help them with activities. And then they’re the ones that I send the invitations to come to our hands on events and different events to hear different perspectives, women in skilled trades, indigenous youth in the skilled trades, you know we’ve got a nuclear power plant in our backyard that everybody wants to go work for. How do they get in there? Well, bring them here to say, here’s how you do it. You know, those types of things and use your use your local experts. People who consider, you know, expect teachers to know everything, baloney. They know what they know and their, and what their pathway took. Them, use your experts and, and locally we do pretty well with that. I think.


Sam Demma (06:54):
Yeah, I think you’re so right. Everyone goes into their job or their situation and most of their beliefs are based on their own past experiences. So if you know you


Dave Barrett (07:04):
Past experiences and perceptions. Yeah. And it’s, it’s funny cuz I actually start, I, I started it years ago, but I started my presentation with, I’m not here to recruit you to apprenticeship. I’m here to, to make sure you understand it before you start. Aren’t listening to people who haven’t got a clue, what they’re talking about. and then once we get into it, all of a sudden they’re going, oh, I had no idea the number of teachers that go, why didn’t I do this? You know, it it’s, it’s fascinating. But it’s just one of those things where there’s all these perceptions and I just spend all my time knocking them down so that when a student student hears it from somebody, they go, no, no, that’s not how it is. I do know this. So, and that, that’s how we’re breaking down those barriers. I


Sam Demma (07:45):
Love that. You can see here, no one can see this who’s listening, but there’s a little empty upside down backpack on top of my hat. And , I, I have this belief that every person in life has an invisible bag strapped to their back and is filled with all those perspectives and past experiences that shape their beliefs. And you kind of carry those things with you. And you know, oftentimes sometimes people put things in there that shouldn’t be in there and that could be, you know, perspectives that hold you back or limit you. And you know, if you don’t stop to remove the things that were never yours to begin with, they start to become weights that weigh you down. And I think it’s just a, a cool, a way to put into perspective what you’re saying. It’s like we have to empty our backpacks and be opens to perspectives.


Dave Barrett (08:25):
Sam. I love that. I, I think that’s brilliant. I’m actually gonna steal it from you. I’m really big on R and D Rob and duplicate. Nice. I love that cuz that’s exactly what happens. And I, I see it too often. I got into a a discussion with a student who was certain, he wasn’t allowed to go into the skilled trades because he was on the university pathway. He said, no, no I’m only allowed to go to university, but he truly believed that. So then we have to talk about, and that was a perception that he was carrying in that backpack that you talked about, that we needed to say, here’s the real information. And here are the opportunities for you. We’re not saying don’t go to university. We’re saying all of the pathways are open to you. It’s up to you to figure out what’s gonna get you to where you want to go next.


Sam Demma (09:06):
Love it. Absolutely love it. And if you were to try and con you know, not convince, but trying to educate students about the upper opportunity that exists in, in the trades, like how do you paint them that picture? You know, go ahead and paint that picture now.


Dave Barrett (09:20):
Oh, I’m gonna give you the two minute version then. All right. So the first thing I talk about is in the skilled trades is the money. So when you become a registered apprentice, you have to be paid. There’s no free apprenticeships. So you have to be paid in a block release situation. You’re going to be paid for about a year. Then you’re gonna get a letter in the mail that letter’s gonna say, it’s time for you to go to trade school. Most trade schools are at community colleges. You’re gonna pick the college that you wanna go to. So if aunt milli lives in Ottawa, you can say, I want to go to the Ottawa college that offers my program, cuz I can live with aunt milli for nothing perfect. You don’t apply the ministry of labor training and skills development phones. The college buys your seat and pays 90% of your tuition.


Dave Barrett (10:04):
Most apprentices pay about $500 whenever they go to trade school, wow, you finish trade school. You go back to work. The interesting part is, before you go to trade school, you’ve been working for a year. You qualify for employment insurance. So right before to go to trade school, you and your employer will go to the employment office. Your employer will lay you off. You get fast tracked onto employment insurance. So you get paid while you’re going to trade school. And if you need it, there’s living allowance. There’s mileage allowance and there’s childcare allowance. If you have to put kids in daycare in order for you to attend, this is usually the part where I see parents elbowing their students going. You should look at this. So this is the way apprenticeship works. Block release. There’s some other ones where you can continue to work. And then you go to school in the evenings.


Dave Barrett (10:50):
And one Saturday, a month, my nephew did one where he worked the first three, four weeks of the month. And then the last week of every month, he went to Trey aid school. So there’s variations, but most of them are like that. So this is an opportunity for students to get in. And if you read the papers and the statistics, there is a skilled trade shortage and this isn’t just Ontario, Canada, north America. This is a worldwide issue. So if you wanna stay local in the skilled trades, you can, if you wanna, and locally, you can do that. If you wanna see your country, you can do your skilled trades and your ticket can get you across the country. If you wanna go international, skilled trades can get you there as well. So it opens all kinds of doors. And again, it’s one tool. And the argument that I always talk to students about is if you wanna argue with me on smarts, wages knowledge, and you think someone with a university degree is better than someone that has a college diploma is better than somebody that has a, a journey person license.


Dave Barrett (11:48):
I can win the argument in every direction, whether you wanna talk on wage. I know people from university with university degrees that are the smartest people that I know. And I know people with university degrees that are like talking to a bag of hammers. well, it’s the same in the skilled trades. Yeah. I know skilled trades people. Yes. They didn’t go to university, but they’re some of the smartest people you’ve ever and they’ve put in the time to really know their craft and they make all kinds of money and they love what they do. And that’s what I talk to students about is don’t go into this for the money. Don’t go into it just cuz I’m talking to you like that, go into it because you have a passion for it. And if you ask me which one I should get into, I’m gonna correspond right back and say, what do you wanna try next? Cause if you spark an arc and go welding it let’s talk. If you spark an art and go, I hate this. Perfect. Now, you know, don’t become a welder. Let’s go try something else until you figure it out. So there’s my two minute pitch for the skilled trades.


Sam Demma (12:45):
I love it. I love it. Right. It’s the idea that generalizations aren’t okay. It’s like, you know, there are people in the trades who are brilliant. There are also people in the trades who Aren, there are people in university who are brilliant and there’s people in university who are brilliant. exactly.


Dave Barrett (12:58):
No, but it’s perceptions, right? It is. And, and it’s this hierarchy that we’ve somehow built for ourselves. And, and I, I disagree with it and it’s really fun to disprove that I don’t have to pick on anybody, but it’s very easy when we talk salaries, when we taught knowledge. One of the things I just added two years ago to my presentation is science, technology engineering and mathematics. Stem is huge in education right now. Well stem, the skilled trades is where stem hits the road. Cause if you don’t understand OMS law and boils law, you’re not gonna do well in the skilled trades, particularly in welding and electrical engineers are the ones that draw the drawings who takes those drawings and actually builds them skilled trades people. They have to understand engineering, mathematics, PHA, and theorem. Oh, they used to throw that on the chalkboard.


Dave Barrett (13:46):
And I go, oh, when am I ever gonna use this in my life? Become a carpenter. That’s how you square wall 3, 4, 5, come on man. That’s and it’s just making those connections that you can actually do it. So that’s, you know, mathematics, perimeters volumes just had a friend of mine complaining about the, they had to completely redo their plumbing cuz their plumber couldn’t do the math. It’s important that you know these things and it’s not for somebody that doesn’t do well in the classroom. They have to understand what they’re getting into. And one, they have the passion, the math, the engineering, the science technology all makes sense. That’s awesome. Plus we use really cool equipment in the skill trades like


Sam Demma (14:24):
Yep. I’ve heard stories even in my own high school of kids repairing a teacher’s car and then getting to drive around the block. And that? Not that this is what happens


Dave Barrett (14:32):
Everywhere. No, they, oh no, that never happens. But yeah, exactly. You know, and the in it’s really cool. Like I looked, I visited a training center locally and they had what were called dark rooms and inside the dark rooms were mill rights and boiler makers who were operating robots inside nuclear vaults, I’m going and they had to be skilled trades people in order to do this. So you’re using the coolest equipment and their supervisors were flying drones around to do the inspections. I mean, what a great, you know, so gaming skills when mom and dad said, Hey, your gaming skills will never Mount to anything, get into the skilled trades. You might just find out they will


Sam Demma (15:08):
Buy some drones.


Dave Barrett (15:09):
exactly fly drones, working robots, real ones. Yeah. It’s kind of cool.


Sam Demma (15:13):
So how did you get into this position? Tell me more about your journey through education yourself. So


Dave Barrett (15:19):
I like, as I said, I was I was working in community economic development and I did, you know, again, I got bored after I was there for 12 years, but I started to do a lot of work with my, a local school boards. So the person who was in the Ontario youth apprenticeship program position was retiring and I’d done a lot of work with her and she said, you should apply for my job. And I’m going look at my resume. There is no way, but I applied anyway. And I had worked with some of the people that were on the hiring team and they said, yeah, let’s take a shot. And that’s worked out really well. So I’m actually not a teacher. Mm-Hmm I come to the position from industry, but I’ve worked in the auto industry, construction industry. I, you know, did some work in manufacturing.


Dave Barrett (16:03):
So all of these things culminated in my position and I think it’s, I’ve got a passion for it. And again, you talk about percept, you come into it and I hear this kids today, baloney kids, they are more engaged. They’re they’re the same as I was when I was there. They just look funny. I look funny to the generation ahead of me. Yeah. They look funny to me, but talking with them and especially when they get a passion for culinary, we run a culinary program. It’s fun to talk to them cuz they know, know their craft and they can’t wait to get into the industry. And that’s, that’s what I love about this position.


Sam Demma (16:37):
Someone recently told me experience comes from age is, you know, is not true. It’s experience comes from experience. And I would also argue experience. Doesn’t also come from a paper, you know, sometimes it comes from experience and you know exactly the fact that you’ve worked in all the different, like various, you know, industries in the field that are the same fields that these kids are gonna get into, gives you the opportunity to give people a very clear picture of each and every one of them. Right. Exactly. And


Dave Barrett (17:05):
That’s it. I bring that, that perspective to it that I didn’t, I couldn’t read in a book or I lived it. So I, I can honestly say here’s what I experienced and here’s how I overcame it, whether I needed to overcome it or not. And, and I, I do think that is valuable. It’s, it’s interesting because in my presentation I actually took that piece out about my, my pathway and all the teachers said, put it back in. That’s the part where the kids went, this guy’s credible. Yeah. So I, I talk about my own faults, my own indecisions, my own bad decisions and my own good decisions. And, and through that they go, okay. Yeah. I, he still, he looks like he’s doing all right. And he’s still living his life. So carry on. Exactly.


Sam Demma (17:47):
Yeah. That’s awesome. And how do you approach a student who is in class and is, or who’s coming to you and, and telling you Dave? I have absolutely no idea what I wanna do with my life. like, I feel like that’s a common conversation you probably have with students.


Dave Barrett (18:02):
And it’s, I, I go back to what I said or what do you wanna try next? So have you been to my events? Have you tried? And, and if some of the things that we’ve created with our local partners is I shops are expensive to run. So they’re only in our high schools. So elementary students don’t have a chance to be exposed to them, but we live in a day and age where technology rules. So I’ve got welding simulators, I’ve got an excavator simulator, I’ve got all kinds of dexterity challenges. I’ve got robots and things like that, that we take into the elementary schools and we let those students try these things. And what I find cool about that is you see students who are, you know, not the athlete, not the academic, all of a sudden excelling in their grade seven, eight class.


Dave Barrett (18:47):
And they’re going, how, how do you know how to do that? Because they’re the hands on learners that have been building stuff since they were four, but this gives them the chance to try it. And once they try it, then we start having the conversations about what parts of, of skilled trades do you like. And, and that’s how we sort of build that model. So when I have the conversation with students, it it’s more around, okay, how can I help you try some of these things? So I’ve, I’ve had, you know, you’re right. I, not long ago I had a student who wasn’t sure if you wanted to be a carpenter or a chef and I’m kind of going, okay, we have some work to do here, cuz that’s pretty diverse. Yeah. but let’s, let’s talk about trying stuff. And what is it you like about this and what is like about that?


Dave Barrett (19:32):
And then we built them from there and they’re actually in my level one cook program right now. Cause they that’s awesome. They kind of decide. And I said, at the end of it, if you, if you hate the level one cook program, you get the end of the day going, this isn’t for me. Perfect. Now, you know, didn’t cost you dime. You’re just gonna be stuck cooking Easter dinner and Thanksgiving for the rest of your life. But other than that, you can go become a carpenter. Now, you know, that’s it’s you got some great skills.


Sam Demma (19:56):
I, I try and here’s another thing you can Rob, maybe an analogy but I, I, I think of it like career search, like a buffet, right? You go to a buffet and you, you walk around, you take a little bit of everything they have to offer and you go sit down, you eat some of it. And certain foods you hate and you don’t grab that ever again. And other foods you end up loving and you know, you keep going back for those. And it’s like the same with trades, the same with jobs, any anything in life. It’s like, you figure out what you love doing, not by theory, but by doing the thing, you know,


Dave Barrett (20:28):
Consider that stolen. I love that’s you’re you nailed it. That’s a, exactly what it is, is keep trying stuff. And I, and I talked to the students that way. I said, your job is the students to try everything you can in the next four to five years, that’s your job. And then from there, you’ll sort of maybe figure it out and be honest. When you, when I talk about my career pathway, I was probably close to 30 before I kind of nailed it. Yep. Cause I’d done construction. I’d done healthcare. I’d done manufacturing. I’d done. These other things went, eh, no, no. Yeah. And then all of a sudden I got into community stuff and I went, Hmm, this makes sense to me. And then workforce development and guiding people to, to careers and helping my community grow. And I went, yeah, I really like this. And then that’s, that’s where I went from there. But it took a while to get there. Remind me, don’t be afraid of


Sam Demma (21:15):
That. Remind me how many years you’ve been in the OYAP position, helping students, you know, figure out different pathways.


Dave Barrett (21:21):
I just started my 10th year.


Sam Demma (21:24):
If you could go back to year one, knowing what, you know, being in this role for 10 years, what would you have told year, Dave?


Dave Barrett (21:31):
Honestly I would’ve said try more stuff, make more mistakes. Mm. Keep trying, keep trying I, some of the programs that came that we’re doing now that are really successful, I really wish I would’ve started them earlier. And a lot of them came from just doing so a good example. We had, we had young women’s events where I would get a couple schools. We’d, you know, they’d pick young women to get on a bus and we’d take them to different industries just to see what they were like. And I thought, well, geez, aren’t I hero? I had 40 young ladies on a bus and we took them into the auto industry, the agricultural industry and these different ones. We talk skilled trades. And then my colleague said, well, why don’t we just do this at their high schools? And that way they can all come.


Dave Barrett (22:18):
Geez. That makes sense. So we started doing young women’s nights where the students would come. We’d allow them to invite their favorite aunt, their mother, their, you know, best friend to come with them. And then we put them into the welding shop and then into the auto shop and we’d circulate them around. And all of a sudden we were having 80 and 90 young ladies trying to skill trades at nine of our high schools. And we’re going, okay, this is better. Well, that’s that kind of grew. But that only happened in the last, before the pandemic three years of the first five years, we weren’t doing it. So it’s stuff like that. Where I’m I like trying stuff. I don’t let the bureau bureaucracy get in the way. Let’s try it. We pilot it, make all of our mistakes and then run with it.


Sam Demma (23:03):
That’s awesome. Love that this has been a exciting conversation. It’s already been 25 minutes time flies in when you’re having a good chat. But if another educator is listening, wants to learn a little more about how they can encourage skill trades and their students, and wants to ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to reach out and get in touch with you?


Dave Barrett (23:22):
If you want to email me: dave_barrett@bwdsb.on.ca. Shoot me an email and I’ll respond. I’ll talk to anybody about skilled trades and events and share anything. I, I think these are great pathways. I don’t think they’re for everyone, but if you are interested in an event or how we do things more than happy to share.


Sam Demma (24:06):
Awesome, Dave. Thank you so much for coming on the show. Really appreciate it. Keep up with the awesome work and we’ll


Dave Barrett (24:10):
Talk soon. All right, Sam, thank you so much for the opportunity you take care too,


Sam Demma (24:14):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating view. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Dave

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December 27, 2021 by Experiential Learning OYAP Coordinator Student Leadership Student Success 0

Nicole Philp – Consultant, Ministry of Education

Nicole Philp - Consultant, Ministry of Education
About Nicole Philp

Regardless of whether she is teaching ‘Outdoor School’ students how to sleep in a quinzhee during a frigid Saskatchewan winter or working at a desk developing curriculum for the Ministry of Education, Nicole Philp (@Nicole-Philp) believes educators are in the “business of building people.”

The awards Nicole has won for her work with kids and the community are testament to the success she has had in the people-building business. Through coaching kids in sports, advising them on student leadership councils, volunteering with them in their community, paddling with them on the mighty Churchill, and yes, even teaching them in the classroom, Nicole has realized that the critical element to working with kids is building relationships.

Connect with Nicole: Email | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Churchill river canoe trip

Saskatchewan Student Leadership Conference

Ministry of Education – Government of Saskatchewan

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Nicole Philp. Regardless of whether she is teaching outdoor school students, how to sleep in a quinzhee during a Frid, Saskatchewan, winter, or working at a desk development curriculum for the ministry of education, Nicole believes educators are in the business of building people.


Sam Demma (01:02):
The awards Nicole has won for her work with kids and community are testament to the success she has had in the people building business. Through coaching kids in sports, advising them on student leadership councils, volunteering with them in their community, paddling with them on the mighty Churchill, and yes, even teaching them in the classroom, Nicole has realized that the critical elements to working with kids is building relationships.


Sam Demma (01:26):
I hope you enjoy this people building conversation with Nicole Philp, and I will see you on the other side… Nicole, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit more about the work you do with the educators who might be tuning in today?


Nicole Philp (01:45):
Sure. First of all, thank you, Sam. I think what you’re doing with these podcasts is an amazing opportunity for us as teachers to listen into each other’s stories. I think, I think that we learn the best when we learn from each other. And, and so this is just such a, an insightful way of, of sharing people’s stories. So thank you for facilitating all of these and, and for the, the invitation to join you today. A little bit about me, I guess I, I hail from small town, she Saskatchewan with in a community of about 1500 people. I’ve had some great experiences in education over the years, including teaching at a large urban high school of 2000 kids teaching an outdoor school program where I got to travel the province with a Hardy group of great 11 kids who were willing to camp and every kind of weather condition imaginable from hot sun to rain, to snowing and building their snow cleans in January. And, and most recently working in my own community and teaching in a, in a small town of 200 kids in the school. And and I’m now working in a position with the ministry of education in Saskatchewan. So I have a huge passion for education. I’ve been very blessed in my life to have all sorts of different educational experiences and just love working with kids. So that’s a, that’s a bit about me


Sam Demma (03:02):
And, and growing up in your, your own small town, did you have dreams and ambitions to become a teacher or like, you know, as a kid yourself, how did you stumble upon getting into education? How did you choose that path?


Nicole Philp (03:16):
Yeah, funny question. So my mom would tell you that it was just always what I was going to be when I was a kid. I would line my stuffed animals up on the couch and have a little chalkboard, and I would teach my little stuffed animals because my brothers refused to sit and listen to me. So I think teaching and, and working with kids is just kind of always been in my blood. I I’ve always wanted to do it. I, I can’t imagine really doing anything else. I had an older brother who was determined that rather than waste my good marks as he saw it on being a teacher, I should go and do something that would make me a pile of money and rich, and he would live off my coattails and, and that just didn’t interest me. I, I really only ever wanted to be in a school.


Sam Demma (04:00):
Hmm. That’s amazing. And did you have educators along the journey that confirmed your own desire and told you, Hey, Nicole, you know, when you, when you grow up, you should consider getting into teaching.


Nicole Philp (04:12):
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And that’s, that’s a great question. I actually have kind of, I see him as a mentor. He was my middle years math teacher. And as an adult now, he is still a volunteer in the community. He has probably more provincial titles as a coach for hockey and baseball and, or softball and, and different sports than anyone I’ve ever met. And, and he’s just become kind of a mentor to me. And, and I bring him up not only an answer to your, but also because he’s kind of coined a phrase for me that I always have in the back of my head. And he talks about teaching and coaching as being in the business of building people. Mm-Hmm. And I just, I love that phrase because it encounters exactly what I think our role is. Educators is yes. We’re there to teach curriculum. Yes. We’re there to you, you know, help kids kind of get through the academic part of life. But if we can even a tiny bit contribute to building the people that they’re becoming and, and the people that they’re gonna be to contribute to our society, then gosh, what a humbling experience for us is teachers to be a part of that. So, yeah. So, so certainly I, I have a mentor that I definitely think of and answer to that question. And, and that’s why building people…


Sam Demma (05:28):
And how do you think you build people in the classroom? Like I, I’m curious to, if you could go back to when you were a student, did you have any teachers as well during that time that, you know, poured into you that had a big impact on your self belief, your confidence or your own just, you know, journey through school as a kid mm-hmm and if so, like what did they do for you that made an impact and a difference that allowed you to build yourself as a kid in their class?


Nicole Philp (05:54):
Well, I think building people can only happen if you first build relationships. I don’t think that you can start creating any kind of development unless you first have that foundation of trust and, and a relationship with the kids that you’re working with, or, or as a kid with the teacher that you’re, that you’re working with in the classroom. And so I, I really think that that is the foundation of all of it that you have to make yourself vulnerable too, as an educator, in order for kids to see that you’re real, you’re authentic, you are in a sense, one of them still learning and growing on this, on this journey. And, and I think that making yourself real and authentic and vulnerable with kids helps them trust you in a sense and helps kind of build that beginning, found that will then flourish and grow into something where we can start that work on, on building people.


Nicole Philp (06:44):
And that was certainly the case for me. I, I had several teachers that I would say I recognized as, as just being real with us as students and, and understood them to be someone that existed outside of the classroom too, and in their lives and that they were willing to share their time with us and, and do some volunteer work with us and teach us about serving and giving of ourselves beyond the classroom. All of those things definitely contributed to my trust of them which was then a great modeling experience for me to take when I became a teacher and, and recognized that if I wanted to build those relationships and begin working on that building people business that my mentor talks about I needed to do the same and, and make myself vulnerable and authentic with kids.


Sam Demma (07:30):
I love that. And what do you think like vulnerability looks like in the classroom as a teacher? Is it like, you know, sharing when you’re, when you’re going through good time and bad times, or like, how do you show up vulnerably as an educator?


Nicole Philp (07:43):
Yeah, and easier for some than others, for sure. And I, and I think it also looks different for some than others. For me, it’s, it’s absolutely that it’s sharing with kids. What’s kind of going on. If I’m having a rough day, I, I certainly don’t mind letting them know, and yet I will also do my best, never to let that impede what’s going on in the classroom. Right. But I think kids need to know and understand that that it’s okay to have those Fs and downs and, and work through them and talk about them and, and experience them, not just kind of box it in. There are certainly lots of kids sitting in our classroom that are going through things that we never know about because they don’t talk about it. And, and nor will they, unless they recognize that it’s okay to do so. And it’s, and it’s a safe place and a trusting place to do that. So yeah, just kind of being willing to be outside of your, your comfort zone and, and share stuff, kids, and, and ensure that then it becomes a safe place for them to share it with you.


Sam Demma (08:45):
That’s awesome. So take me back to yourself, you know, you finish high school, you got teachers, I’m assuming teachers college. So after teachers college, what did the path look like for you throughout education? Like bring me through the various roles you worked and also where you started and where you are now.


Nicole Philp (09:04):
Sure. Yeah. So I graduated a bit early, so I ended up looking for a position right after Christmas, when, when I was done university. And I was fortunate enough to, to land a physician at the, the biggest high school in Saskatchewan. So, like I said, I’m from a town of 1500 people, and I was walking into my first day of work in a school that had over 2000 kids in it. So to say I was overwhelmed and feeling a little bit out of my league is to put it lightly. I remember just like I knew one way to get to my classroom and that building from my car. And I would only take that one way through the same hallway, same doors until I was confident enough in myself to get lost in the maze of hallways of such a large school.


Nicole Philp (09:52):
But what an experience, because as a first year teacher, I was surrounded by, at that time I was teaching just math and I was surrounded by about 12 other math teachers. So all of that experience and, and knowledge and wisdom to learn from and build on was just phenomenal for my kind of professional development. And then while I was at that school it became kind of known that I had this passion for the outdoors and passion for adventures and that kind of thing. So I got invited to co-teach an outdoor school program which I alluded to before. And so we had 11 grade 11 students that would apply for it from kind of all over the division. And and we would count from September till till January. And they would learn math as we were pedaling a Churchill, and they would learn English and we’d read poetry.


Nicole Philp (10:40):
We’re sitting around the fire somewhere down in grassland, national parks, Saskatchewan. And, you know, it was just in terms of place based learning and, and inquiry kind of learning. It was the most incredible experience for those kids and for myself. And then, and then from there, I, and ended up getting, you know, pregnant with my first child and I couldn’t be on the road like that. So I applied for a position in my own small town, so I wouldn’t be commuting and I wouldn’t be traveling. And, and I was very fortunate to get it and spent the next 10 years just teaching in my community, which I, I can’t speak enough about that. I just being able to work with the kids in your community and, and the biggest piece for me during that experience has been making the connections between school and community I’m


Nicole Philp (11:27):
So such a believer, I guess, in, in the phrase that it not only takes a village to raise a child as the old saying goes, but I think it takes a village to educate one. And so during my time teaching in my community, I, I made every effort I possibly could think of to either bring the community into the school so that my kids were learning from people who are, who are better than me. People who know more and people who can speak to different things in, in a way that I can’t, and then also taking the kids out into the community in that reciprocal relationship and, and teaching them about what does the community I offer and, and who is doing the work that makes this community such a great place. And having them learn about about the different people and the amount of work that goes into creating this sense of community. So, for me, it was working in my own community was really about that opportunity to build relationships between the school and the community.


Sam Demma (12:22):
That’s amazing. And did you grow up with a passion for the outdoors, or is that something you developed when you started teaching?


Nicole Philp (12:30):
Yeah, yeah. A bit of both. So, I mean, I’m a true farm kid. I grew up riding in grain trucks with my parents when I was little and, and certainly, you know, working with cattle and horses and all that kind of stuff, and definitely a, a true farm kid who spent most of my time outside. And when I wasn’t working on the farm, I was building forts in the Bush. So that kind of thing. But in terms of like these survivalistic type of camping experiences, I had a, a friend whose family did this every year and they invited me on my first Churchill river canoe trip when I was about 15 years old and never looked back. That was always, always my thing. So yeah, it, to be able to incorporate that into my teaching and, and to teach while something that I’m so passionate about. I mean, it’s just a huge highlight of my career, so yeah, definitely, definitely a lifelong passion for sure.


Sam Demma (13:23):
And, you know, at some point you also started getting heavily involved in student activities and student leadership. What, what, when did that happen for you and what kind of pushed you in that direction?


Nicole Philp (13:35):
So, I mean, it started for me when I was in high school myself and I was fortunate enough to be part of a, a very active student council and we attended all sorts of provincial leadership conferences. So it was for me, just kind of a no brainer that as soon as I became a teacher, I would definitely get involved in that kind of leadership activity counsels and that kind of thing. And so I did right away when I started at, at this large urban high school in, in prince Albert and had some great mentors to learn from in terms of how to be an advisor of a, of a large student council. And then brought that experience when I came to, came to she and came to teach my own community. And, and certainly this is where that kind of sense of community and student leadership kind of relationship building with community really flourished.


Nicole Philp (14:26):
The community has just been so embracing of everything that the student leadership council ever wanted to attempt or, or try or do in terms of eat hockey tournaments, to having a mud pit where the kids just like get down and dirty into this mud pit and wrestling. And it’s just a blast to yeah, to hosting a relay for life. We had this amazing group of kids that decided they were going to, they were gonna do their own relay for life in Shere which is normally done just in large centers. And they raised over $14,000 the first year they did it in a, in a community of 1500 kids. It’s, it’s pretty incredible. So it’s just a Testament to how embracing this community is of the work that the kids are trying to do. And again, it just goes back to that sense of relationships, right. And, and seeing that the kids are serving and are, are wanting to serve this community they just, yeah. Support that wholeheartedly, which is an incredible.


Sam Demma (15:25):
That’s so cool. And doing the relay for life in such a small town and having such a large impact is a test meant to how a small group of kids or a small group of people in general can really make a difference, which is like, yeah, such an awesome story. And then how did things transition? I know you, you moved and started working with the ministry of education as well. What did that transition look like and what does the work you’re doing now kind of, how does it differ from what you were doing previously into schools?


Nicole Philp (15:53):
Yeah, that’s a, that’s a tough one to answer for me in a sense that this was not a job change that I was looking for. I was loving the work that I was doing in my community and in my school and, and with the kids that I was teaching and working with. So it was not an easy decision for me, but I received a phone call in the summer of 2019 with an offer for this subcontinent position, with the ministry to do some work around the province with school community councils. And after a lot of soul searching and a lot of conversations with my family, we decided, you know what, let’s, let’s give this a try. So I, I took that opportunity and, and wow, what experience I got to travel to 27 different school divisions in the province and meet with their parents and community members and people who are just so invested in education and wanting the best for their kids.


Nicole Philp (16:45):
Mm. And so to listen to those conversations and to hear the different points of view and different perspectives from small towns to urban centers and the different needs and the different challenges people are facing that was just such an incredible experience for me, that I certainly don’t regret making that decision. And now the work I’m doing is just giving me such a, a wider view of education in general. I, you know, I’ve worked urban and I’ve worked in rural and I’ve worked in this outdoor school program, but to see education kind of from that provincial level and from a, a different perspective and see the work that kind of goes on behind the scenes has also been incredible. I do see myself going back to the classroom. I desperately miss kids. Mm-Hmm, , I often have a group of kids around my kitchen table, actually, whether they’re coming for math help or just coming for lunch, cuz we wanna have a catch up visit or, or whatever it might be. We’re currently actually planning a Halloween activity. So yeah, I just, I miss kids, I miss working with kids and, and I know that that’s really where I need to get back to, but this has been just kind of a, a really neat break in the career and a different experience to, to build myself as a, an educator when I go back.


Sam Demma (17:57):
That gives you more holistic viewpoint or perspective.


Nicole Philp (18:00):
Right. It really does. Yeah.


Sam Demma (18:02):
Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s so cool. And if you could travel back in time and speak to on year one of teaching, knowing what you know now and having a different perspective, like what advice would you give your younger self or any of the educators listening who might be in their first few years of teaching?


Nicole Philp (18:21):
I think I would tell myself you can’t do it all. Hmm. And, and so I’m, I’m one of those type a personalities. And I like when I have a, a plan or a vision, I like to make sure that it’s all done and it’s all done. Right. and, and yet there’s so many negative repercussions for that. Kids, you, you, you build people a lot, a lot better if you allow them to do the work and if you allow them to make the mistakes and if you allow them to grow from all of that. And so when I first started in student leadership and started doing some of those activity planning events and, and that kind of thing, I would try to always kind of have my thumb on all of the different components and make sure that everything was being done.


Nicole Philp (19:00):
And, and and as an organizer, you need to do that to some extent, there’s, there’s no doubt about it. You don’t really want your kids to fail, but but yeah, I re remember there were things that I would do and I would just try and make sure that I was kind of covering all of it. And, and so that’s definitely something that I would have, I would like to tell myself now let it go because kids can do amazing things and, and you need to trust them. And yeah, you need to let them learn from, from the different things that happen when they’re playing, learning these kinds of events and, and involved with community and, and they’re all great learning experiences.


Sam Demma (19:36):
Love that. That’s great. Last piece of advice. Nicole, thank you so much for taking some time outta your data. Come on the show and share your perspectives and your stories. If there is an educator listening, who’s feeling inspired or intrigued in any way, what would be the best way for them reach out to you and get in touch for a conversation?


Nicole Philp (19:55):
Hmm. Great question. I’m on Facebook looking me up on Facebook. Can you shoot me an email or a text? I love to love to chat with other educators and, and learn from them. Like I said, that’s what I’ve thoroughly enjoyed about your podcast. I’ve just gotten so many ideas and chatted, so many notes to on as I’ve listened to different people and their experiences and what they’ve done with kids and where they’ve, their imagination has taken them. So yeah, this is just such a, a neat opportunity for all of us.


Sam Demma (20:22):
Awesome. I’ll put your email in the show notes so people can find it if they’re interested in shooting you a note. But yeah. Thank you again so much. This has been great. We’ll stay in touch and keep up it work.


Nicole Philp (20:32):
Fantastic. Thanks Sam. And likewise, have a great day.


Sam Demma (20:36):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Nicole

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 26, 2021 by Education Consultant Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Kirstin Johnson – Vice President of Competitive Events, Family, Career and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA)

Kirstin Johnson - Vice President of Competitive Events, Family, Career and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA)
About Kirstin Johnson

Kirstin Johnson joins the National Executive Council with six years of FCCLA experience. Previously, she served as the Washington State Vice President of Competitive Events and Washington State Vice President of Region 7. During her time in FCCLA, she has also competed in five different STAR Events, each of which earned gold at the national level.

Outside of FCCLA, Kirstin is involved in Knowledge Bowl, Running Start, Youth Group, and volleyball. She enjoys fishing, creating art, and spending time outside with friends, family, and animals. After high school, Kirstin plans to pursue a career as a midwife.

Connect with Kirstin: Email | Instagram | Website

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Career and Technical Student Organizations (CTSO)

Family, Career and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA)

FCCLA Star Events (Competitive events)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s interview is very special because it’s not with an educator, but actually a student. Kirstinjohnson is the national vice president of competitive events with FCCLA, family career and community leaders of America. Kirstin joined the national executive council with six years of FCCLA experience previously. She served as the Washington state vice president of competitive events and Washington state vice president of region seven. During her time in FCCLA, she has also competed in five different star events. Each of which earned gold at the national level. Outside of FCCLA, Kirstin’s involved in the knowledge bowl, youth group and volleyball. She enjoys fishing, creating art and spending time outside with friends, family, and animals. After high school Kirstin plans to pursue a career as a midwife.


Sam Demma (01:05):
I hope you enjoy this conversation with Kirstin. I hope it gives you some insights into how teachers impacted her student leadership experience. And I will see you on the other side, Kirsten, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. I’m super excited to chat with you. Why don’t you go ahead and introduce yourself and just share a little bit about who you are with the educators and the audience who might be tuning in today.


Kirstin Johnson (01:33):
Awesome. Yes. Thank you so much. I’m so excited to be here. My name is Kirstin Johnson. I’m a senior in the small town of Kititas, Washington. I’m 17 years old. And this year I’m serving as the vice president of competitive events for family career and community leaders of America. FCCLA is a student leadership organization. It’s a career technical student organization with family as its central focus. We use skills. Our members use skills from family and consumer sciences classes to develop and implement projects, to impact their communities and all sorts of places at this regional state and national level. We use our personal power to make a difference to empower others. We grow as leaders and we prepare our members for college and careers as they go out leaving high school and beyond it’s a new ball game and try to help make sure they’re as ready as they possibly can be.


Kirstin Johnson (02:28):
I got involved in FCCLA really early on. So most schools are gonna be ninth through 12th grade, but some schools are fortunate to offer middle school chapters for family career and community leaders in America. And my school did, we offered a sixth grade chapter and I heard about it, my neighbor, nice. I went over to their house and honestly, it’s kind of a funny story. I got involved cause I wanted to go to Disneyland. Just short and sweeter. I went over to my neighbor’s house and she wasn’t there. I was like, okay, where’s Annie. And my name was, oh, she’s in, she’s in California. Why is Annie in California? And your whole family is here. She went for school. Hang on, hang on. How did Annie get to go to California for school? Yeah. Oh, she’s going with her FCCLA chapter.


Kirstin Johnson (03:15):
And I turned to my mom. I don’t know what that is, but I wanna do it. Okay. I guess so. And so the first day of sixth grade, I walked into my Nowad advisor’s classroom and I said, Hey, are you the person who does FCCLA said, yeah, can I do it too? Yeah, it it’s a lot of work. Are you sure? Yep. I’m in. I wanna go to Disneyland we don’t always go to Disneyland. You know that right. I didn’t, but I still wanna do it. Okay. And so that year I kind of just threw myself into deep end. I started with my first star event, which saw our events, Stanford students taking action with recognition. And my event was environmental ambassador at the time. And I peer educated elementary and middle school students on the importance of composting. And I taught them how to make compost men.


Kirstin Johnson (04:03):
And I loved it. I had a blast. And from there I kind of realized, Hey, this, this isn’t so bad. I can make a difference. I can speak up. And I I’m just, I’m one person. I am a sixth grader, heck, before I started this, I could barely just talk in front of anyone. And now I’ve got the, to actually insight change. I wanna keep doing this. And so then I got involved with student body government and I continued to get involved in my school. I was team captain for multiple sports teams and I just kind of kept the ball rolling. And every year I just kept coming back to FCCLA a and getting involved with office was kind of a different story.


Kirstin Johnson (04:42):
It was more of a slow climb where I met. It was less of a dive right in. Yeah. A lot of people, I was fortunate enough to run for national office last summer, which is why I’m hearing now and talking to a lot of people, I got to hear their stories and it was amazing to hear everyone’s stories. It felt like everyone had this aha moment. Like they saw the national walk officers walk out on stage and they’re like, that’s gonna be me. They’re so cool. And that was not what happened with me. It was, I guess I could do a star event and then I did it and it wasn’t so bad. I guess I could do a skill demonstration event. Hey, that went pretty well too. Maybe I’ll do chapter office and then low and behold, it worked out. But I saw the state officers on stage, no way.


Kirstin Johnson (05:33):
These people are crazy. Who would wanna talk in front of 800 people? That’s way too many and then my advisor, Hey, one of our candidates dropped out for state office. No. Okay. Maybe. And I came in with the application the next day and then we were good. And then it was, I believe it was last summer. We’re talking. So you’ve got a little qualifications now, do you wanna run for national office? I mean, I guess I could. I know I can make a difference. I guess I’ve got the skills to do it. It’s a matter of finding out if it’s a good fit, I’ll run and I’ll see what happens. And that, that was kind of how every step of my journey went. And I think it’s probably a pattern I’ll continue to follow. Cause I’m not really a, I’m a go-getter, but I don’t like to feel like I’m out of my depth, if that makes sense. And FCCLA has really helped me figure out where my personal strengths are and where I can actually succeed with that mindset. And it’s helped me to figure out you don’t have to be perfect. You don’t have to know everything going into it to actually step into a successful leadership role. And that’s kind of how I got started and how I’ve been involved and how I’ve stayed.


Sam Demma (06:47):
Where do you think your next, I guess I will, is gonna take you in life. Like where, where do you kind of foresee yourself going in the future?


Kirstin Johnson (06:55):
Great question. Right now I’m looking at attending university and I want to be a midwife. I wanna be part of making women feel loved, cared for and safe during every step of pregnancy birth and postpartum care. Especially I think that’s really important. I feel like right now in our world, a lot of the times women feel like their numbers just being pushed right in and right out of a hospital. They’re like, get in, get it done and get out, have fun taking your baby home. And I want women to make sure that they’re, they feel loved. They feel prepared. I want someone when that baby is crying and they’re just trying to use the bathroom alone because they’re overwhelmed. I want someone I wanna be able to, to help them and just hold the baby. It’s okay. Take a deep breath. Or you’ve got this. I want, I want, wanna be there to support them. And I, so right now I’m applying to colleges and I’m hoping to be on the right track to succeed in that career field.


Sam Demma (07:47):
That’s so cool. And let’s go back to your, that first day you walk into your advisor’s class, you know, that was the start of a relationship that you probably didn’t even realize you were gonna build and have for the next couple of years. Can you me more about, you know, what your advisor did for you that had such a positive impact on your life and, you know, got you involved in leadership because other educators might be listening, thinking. I wish my students were just as you know, interested in motivated as Kirstin.


Kirstin Johnson (08:14):
Yeah. Mrs. USY. So I’ve had the pleasure of working with her. Now this is our seventh year together and she’s just amazing. She is one of the kindest, most caring, most dedicated individuals I’ve ever met. I love her so much. It was definitely an interesting relationship at the start because I was terrified of her. I was so scared. She kind of has this reput of being the big, bad, scary teacher at our school. Cuz she’s strict with her deadlines. She has a very type, a way of getting things done and it works, but it can be overwhelming, especially as a sixth grader, who’s used to just elementary work and kind of pushing things off to the side. And then you hop in, whoa, I gotta, I gotta do stuff now. And she doesn’t take too kindly to just slacking off. And so it was a lot at first and I’m gonna be honest.


Kirstin Johnson (09:07):
I hardly talked to her probably the first year. And then the second year I had her in class she’s I would go up to ask her questions about FCCLA, Mrs. USY can you help me with no, I have heard you talk with your friends way louder. You can speak up. I know you got that confidence and it was little things that she helped me with and she really, she believed in me when I didn’t believe in myself, she saw potential that I didn’t know I had. And I think that’s something that really amazing teachers are really good at is seeing the potential in students. And she going back to that dedicated part. I was kind of a train wreck as a sixth grader. Anyone who knew me can attest and I, I was clutsy. I was a mess. I was all over the place.


Kirstin Johnson (09:59):
And so I had no idea what I was doing. I wrote my speech for my first competitive event, the night it, or the day it was due, what I had to finish the project the night before. And she stayed with me till 1230 at night in the school helping me make sure I got it done because she wanted to, he succeed, even though I probably had not done enough to deserve to succeed at that point in time, she believed I could. And she made me believe that I could and together we were able to accomplish that. And it’s been like that through our whole relationship. It’s been, I, I didn’t know if I could do it. And she was there to push me and she was there when I failed. She was there with love and support and encouragement and also like, Hey, this is how we gotta get it right the next time it wasn’t just a, oh, we’ll do better.


Kirstin Johnson (10:47):
It was like, Hey, we can work through this and we can grow from this. And she’s just always been that person. And I’m, I’m so grateful to have worked with her. And I mean, to be working with her still, she’s just one of the most amazing people. I’m I’m sorry. I did this at state too. I tell she won the national spirit of advising award, which she totally deserves and our teammates one, my teammate and I, we had to speak about her at our state conference and we were both bawling by then. I, I’m just honored to say that I’ve worked with her and she has changed my life in more ways than I could probably say.


Sam Demma (11:29):
Ah that’s so, ah, that’s so kind she sounds like an amazing leader, you know, and an amazing human being and I’m, I mean, I’m curious to know, like what do you think makes a great leader? What do you think makes a great student leader?


Kirstin Johnson (11:45):
I think this is a really open-ended question and I’d love that. And I think it’s a hard one to put into a mold because a leader can be so many different things. It can depend on the role you’re trying to succeed in. It can be who you’re trying to lead, what you’re trying to accomplish. And I don’t think you have to fit into a specific box to be a good leader. But I do think there are some things that make a leader really stand out or encourage them to succeed more. I would say one thing that we all learned from the pandemic is that a good leader is adaptable. Cause you never know when this is a really specific and personal situation, but I was packing up to leave for a state leadership conference that I had spent months prepping for the day before I left, it was shut down and we had to plan an entirely virtual state leadership conference in two weeks.


Kirstin Johnson (12:43):
And it was terrifying, but you have to be ready to roll with the punches. Anything can come your way and you have to be ready to take it and adapt and use it. Don’t don’t let it get you down. You have to be ready to use it and see it as a new opportunity to do something different. Cuz if you’re not able to deal with a new situation coming, right, how are you gonna show other people yeah. To deal with that? I think another kind of in the same area is a good leader is optimistic. You can’t really lead anyone and a new direction or an, to an exciting new place. Or so then how do succeed? You’re like, well this sucks. Nothings going on anywhere. It just doesn’t work like that. You need to be forward thinking. You need to be excited to make a difference to pave a new road, to just set your sights on change, to, to set your sights in a new direction.


Kirstin Johnson (13:37):
And I think part of that is just having an optimistic outlook. You don’t have to be a bubbly person. Personally. I am a bubbly person. My nickname has been smiley for a long time cuz I just don’t stop. Yeah. But you don’t have to be a bubbly person. You just need to have a good attitude, good outlook on life. And I think that’s gonna make a lot of difference. And then this is one that I didn’t, I wasn’t super aware of until this summer. And it’s made a huge difference in my life and the way I view others as leaders and myself as a leader and that’s authenticity, a good leader means to be authentic. If you’re trying to fake it till you make it, people are gonna see that people know they see right through that guys. There’s no way that you’re gonna succeed in whatever role that you’re trying to do.


Kirstin Johnson (14:29):
If you’re being someone you’re not, and it’s not gonna be fun if you’re interviewing for a job, if you’re taking on a new role as a leader and you just fake your way through an interview or you’re like, I’m gonna be someone I’m totally not. Cuz I know that this is what the people in this role normally look like. It’s not gonna work because then you’re in a situation that doesn’t work for you. If you’re, if you do your best to be your real, authentic self, as much as possible, you’re gonna end up in situations that fit you, that fit your personality. And you’re gonna end up surrounded with people who fit you and your personality. But if you’re faking it, if you are, I’m so excited to be here, I wanna be an accountant and you don’t wanna be an accountant and then you get to the job and you’re with your coworkers.


Kirstin Johnson (15:18):
I hate my life. What is happening, everyone. It’s not gonna be a good situation for anyone whatsoever. And then, oh good leaders are supportive. Mm. They wanna see other people succeed. They’re not looking to have a title. They’re not looking to be yep. I’m the president of the United States like this, that’s not what they’re going for. A good leader is striving to facilitate the success of others. So you should be supportive and encouraging. And I think that probably goes in hand, hand in hand with the optimistic outlook. But I think all of those together being supportive, adaptable, authentic, and optimistic are some key traits that good leaders exhibit.


Sam Demma (16:05):
Yeah. That makes perfect sense. I absolutely, I absolutely agree. I don’t think , I don’t think you miss point at all. Those are, those are great pieces of advice. And I don’t think that only applies to students as well, you know, for all the educators listening to this right now also think about embodying those four characteristics for your students. Like if I had to guess your advisor probably embodied all four of those things, would, would you agree? Most definitely. Yeah. That’s awesome. Mom. I’m so glad to hear. So what’s the future of, or what’s going on with FCCLA this year and for everyone who’s in Canada and has no clue. Not, not no clue about FCCLA. I know you mentioned it a little bit, but maybe give them a little more of a breakdown on what you guys do every single year. Yeah.


Kirstin Johnson (16:52):
So I’m, I, I completely forgot you guys were in Canada. That’s messing with me. Oh good.


Kirstin Johnson (16:57):
Our organization. We are a CTSO, as I mentioned earlier, which is a career and technical student organization. We prepare students for the real world for college, for the workforce through stem skills, through facts or family and consumer sciences programs. Do you guys have family and consumer sciences in Canada? Do you call it the same thing?


Sam Demma (17:19):
Nah, we don’t. We don’t really have it. It might, it might be family studies or career and civics.


Kirstin Johnson (17:24):
Oh probably. Yeah. Yeah. So it’s your home EC. It used to be home economics back in around the eighties. It’s your learning to meal prep, learning to eat nutritionally, to prepare food, to care for children, to care for families, to learning, to sew, learning like textile stuff, interior design, graphic design, all sorts of anything in your hospitality and tourism, your visual arts and design education and training and hos oh in human services pathways. So sorry, I almost missed one. We set students up specifically for careers in that field, but you can use skills learn in our program in order to succeed in other careers, if that makes sense. Yeah. So really our goal is to make a difference and to develop leadership skills within our students. Nice. We focus on the multiple roles of the family member, the wage earner and community leader, and then students have different opportunities to learn to succeed in these roles.


Kirstin Johnson (18:36):
One of our biggest draws as an organization is competitive events, which as the vice president of competitive events, I’m a little partial to. So we have different event opportunities, star events. As I mentioned earlier, those are kind of a long term project. And students are given a rubric at the beginning of the year and then they with different criteria for each event. So for example, one year I did the chapter service project display event and my partner and I went off the rubric and then created a project that we saw we saw need in community. And that need was the growing number of homeless members of our community. And we were trying to see what we could do as high school, sophomores at the time, that’s a big issue to address, but we used the skills we had to actually make a positive impact. And so we brought in baked goods that we made a, in our family and consumer sciences classroom with our advisor every Sunday.


Kirstin Johnson (19:35):
And we would volunteer for around six hours at the shelter. We would bring in fresh, big pastries. And then we run around all of our community and we collected toiletries and other travel size items because a lot of the times people will hand out goody bags, homeless, and they throw half of it. But away because you have to carry everything you have when you’re in that situation. Yeah. So we didn’t take what you need style almost like a buffet bar, but it was the tree is another items. Yeah. I’m not sure of a better way to describe that. I hope you get a good visual with that. Yeah. And so that away we identified a need and then we address the need within our community. And then one of the main parts of the star meant after you identify a concern form, a goal, set a plan act, and then you follow up.


Kirstin Johnson (20:27):
Those are the steps of our planning process, which we use or encourage members to use to carry out all the, of their projects. And at the end, we create a 10 minute oral presentation along with a huge visual poster board or a portfolio. Some of the speeches vary. They can be five, they can be 10 minutes. And then you present in front of a panel of evaluators who evaluate your project based on the criteria of a rubric I mentioned earlier, and that’s kind of what a star event looks like. And we have more than 30 different events. We have fashion events, we have culinary events. We have all sorts of community based events. We have career investigations, you have the opportunity to explore careers. We have hospitality and tourism promote and publicize FCCLA star events are amazing because there’s something for everyone. And if the event at first glance doesn’t totally fit what you’re looking for, you can make it your own, which I think that’s the beauty of star events.


Kirstin Johnson (21:23):
That’s what, they’re my favorite. And then we have skill demonstration events are a shorter project. Those take leaves in the fall. In fact, our deadline was just a few days ago and they’ll be recognized during our national fall conference in Washington DC here in November. And for those it’s a shorter project and you do events like creed speaking, culinary, knife skills, fashion sketch. So it’s a short term pro project designed to show your ability to create something you’re well demonstrating your skills. Yeah, I guess it’s kind of in the name and we have life smarts knowledgeable, so you can demonstrate your knowledge. Do you guys have knowledgeable in Canada?


Sam Demma (22:06):
It might be something similar by a different name. And I know like the names for everything’s a little different probably, but we probably do. Yeah.


Kirstin Johnson (22:14):
So it’s, it’s like knowledgeable Quizible and then our addition is we have a family, we have a FCCLA additional knowledge category. That’s part of the challenge. There’s FCCLA I believe there’s a hospitality environment, consumer math. I’m pretty sure, but it’s loosely on those areas and students are test on their knowledge and their ability to buzz in it’s NICE’s almost game show. Like it’s a really fun and exciting way to show off your knowledge. And then we have virtual business and fashion challenges online, which are awesome because they’re free events that students can take place partly in and they can win money, which is a great way to support their chapter or their education, whatever they choose to put it to. But those are another way similar to skill demonstration events, where they can demonstrate their skills in order to be recognized. So huge focus is our variety of competitive event opportunities, which allows students to develop their skills, to use the skills they already have and to learn more about their interest areas or to learn more about just different fields in general.


Kirstin Johnson (23:28):
And those are a great way. And we also have a lot of scholarship opportunities through competitive events. We fortunate have to have a lot of new found partnerships that are really, really helping out our students. We had, this is slightly off topic, but it’s one of my favorite FCCLA moments. And I just wanna share it with you. Last year, we had a student, she came up on stage and we recognized the three top competitors on stage the first, second and third place. And she was the only one on stage. The other people weren’t able to attend the conference. We had a hybrid conference at the time because of, of the COVID restrictions. And she stood on stage. She was the only one up there and you could see her face as they announced the third place. It wasn’t her. They announced the second place.


Kirstin Johnson (24:17):
It wasn’t her. And then they went to say first place. And it was a, along with that first place award was a full to scholarship wow. To a fashion Institute. And you just saw, she smiled so wide and she was sobbing on stage. She was so happy. I’ve never seen anyone more happy to be recognized on stage. And you could tell that her dream was coming true. And it was amazing to see someone pour their heart out into a project like that and find that success and find that it really did set them up for that college readiness. Now, I don’t know her story. Maybe she couldn’t afford college. Maybe she could, but it wasn’t the school she wanted to go to. And now she had a full ride scholarship to a school where she wanted to succeed. And then we got to watch her model, the dress that she had created and it was gorgeous and she walked on stage so proud with the biggest smile and it was, it was just so cool. So I think that’s so our competitive event opportunities, scholarship opportunities through that, we set students up very success.


Sam Demma (25:27):
You did a great job explaining it.


Kirstin Johnson (25:31):
Okay! I tend to ramble as long as


Sam Demma (25:34):
No, that was awesome.


Kirstin Johnson (25:35):
So much I could say about FCCLA and what it does for our students, what it does for our communities, not just students, but I, I could go on and on.


Sam Demma (25:46):
Yeah, I think everyone listening is wishing they’re, they’ve been, they could have been a part of an FCCLA chapter. So no, you’ve definitely done a great job. If you could travel back in time to when you were a freshman and give yourself advice. And maybe even when you were younger, like even as a younger student and give yourself advice, knowing what you know now, like what would you have told your younger self?


Kirstin Johnson (26:10):
I think the biggest thing I would say is don’t let fear stand in your way. Mm. As corny as that sounds, it is huge. A lot of the times personally, and in my experience as a high schooler with other high school students, we are afraid. We’re afraid of rejection. We’re afraid of failure. We’re afraid of not looking how we expect other people to think we look on stage or in the classroom. I think fear stops us in our tracks so much. And I would tell my younger self or another younger aspiring leader, don’t be afraid, take leap, join the extracurricular, join the club, start a club, do something. If you want to see change, start it. Don’t let fear get in your way. And on top of that, don’t be afraid to ask for help. I think that’s a huge thing. I’m really guilty of that.


Kirstin Johnson (27:10):
I’m like I was talking about Mrs. UC earlier. I’m thankful that I had an advisor who saw when I was struggling, even when I didn’t ask her help. And she was there, but there are a lot of times in other aspects of my life, in my leadership, but I’ve been too afraid to ask for help because I didn’t wanna look weak or I didn’t wanna seem like I didn’t know what I was doing. I wanted to feel like I had it all together. And I didn’t, and I was afraid to ask for help. And that doesn’t only hurt yourself and your performance, but it hurts as around you, especially if you’re working in a team environment as an officer, a lot of the times you’re in a team of 10 or more people. And when one part of the team is falling apart, everyone falls apart.


Kirstin Johnson (27:48):
So if you have those people around you, if you have teammates, if you have an advisor, if you have a friend, if you have a parent, if you have a teacher, someone around you, don’t be afraid to ask for help. Cuz contrary to popular belief, especially speaking to students, I don’t know, as a 17 year old, I don’t know how much you grow out of it. But a lot of times it can feel like someone’s always off to the side or in the corner waiting for you to trip so they can laugh or just waiting to watch you fail so they can mock you. And I feel like we always have that little nagging voice in the back of our heads. And you just need to, don’t be afraid to ask for help because they’re not there. It’s that nagging voice is in your head.


Kirstin Johnson (28:29):
It’s not the people around you. The people around you want to see you succeed. They want you to make a difference and asking for help is one of the first steps to doing that. Cuz no one’s gonna know you’re struggling unless you say it and you shouldn’t have to have it all figured out. Especially as a student leader, there are things you’re not gonna no, no one prepares you as a freshman to just walk on stage and speak in front of a thousand people. Things are learned. And so you need to be, Hey, I don’t know how to do this. Is there a way I can get better? And so just don’t let fear get in your way. Don’t be afraid to ask for help. And I think if you can overcome those obstacles, it’s gonna give you a lot of room to grow. And I think that’s something I wish people had told me. And I would like to tell other people.


Sam Demma (29:18):
I love that. That’s such a great advice for your younger self and anyone who might be tuning in. I’m curious if someone else is listening to this and is inspired by it at all and wants to, to reach out to you, you know, share anything you’d like in terms of how they can get in touch and ask a question.


Kirstin Johnson (29:33):
Oh, of course, yes. Feel free to email me. All of my contact. My email information is on the FCCLA website. I’d write out my email address, but it’s really long. Cool. and I’d probably spell it wrong talking. You can get ahold of me. I have an Instagram account. You can do Kirstin Johnson, FCCLA. It should come right up. We have Twitter accounts. And then you can also reach out to, if you wanna learn more about the organization, we have all that information on our webpage and you can reach out to our communications department. But if you wanna talk with me specifically, the best way to get ahold of me is gonna be that Instagram account or my email for sure.


Sam Demma (30:13):
Awesome person. Thank you so much again for coming on the show. This has been a huge pleasure. I can’t wait to see what your future holds keep up. It’s great work with FCCLA and we’ll talk soon.


Kirstin Johnson (30:24):
Thank you so much.


Sam Demma (30:26):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Kirstin

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 24, 2021 by Student Leadership Student Success 0

Sara Daddario – English Teacher and Director of Student Activities at Kennedy High School

Sara Daddario - English Teacher and Director of Student Activities at Kennedy High School
About Sara Daddario

Sara Daddario is a teacher in Southern California who believes that all students can achieve if they know that they are seen, supported, and have a voice. She has been working with teens for 15 years teaching resilience, success maintenance and integrity through the subjects of English and Student Leadership. 

When she was little she told her parents she wanted to be a Jedi when she grew up, and figures that teaching is just about as close as you can get to that.

The Force is strong with her. 

Connect with Sara: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Dr. Ellen Caldwell (Sara’s University Professor)

Anaheim Union High School District

TikTok Challenges

“These Kids are Killing me” (Tumblr) Blog

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Sara Daddario. Sara is a teacher in Southern California who believes that all students can achieve if they know that they are seen, supported and have a voice. She has been working with teens for 15 years, teaching resilience, success maintenance, and integrity through the subjects of English and student leadership. When she was little, she told her parents, she wanted to be a Jedi when she grew up and figures that teaching is just about as close as you can get to that. The force is strong with her. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Sara and I will see you on the other side.


Sam Demma (00:47):
Sara. Welcome to the high-performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself to some of the educators that are tuning in?


Sara Daddario (00:56):
Okay. Hi my name is Sara Daddario. I have been an English teacher and activity director for 14 years in Southern California. And I’ve, I think in those capacities, I’ve taught every grade level between seven and 11, for some reason, 12th grade still evades me. I get to teach seniors in my leadership class, but they won’t give me a senior English class. But you know, careers are long stuff. We’ll get there eventually. I’m sure.


Sam Demma (01:25):
That’s awesome. And did you know growing up from a young age that you wanted to become a teacher?


Sara Daddario (01:31):
No. and if you had told me at any age that I was gonna be a teacher, I would’ve told you, you were insane. I probably would’ve screamed profanity at you and laughed in your face. It was something that I came to way later in life and I’m, I’m so glad I think as a teacher, you really have to know who you are to be effective. And I think that not knowing that this was what I wanted to do, kind of gave me time to figure out who I was and the world, and I didn’t come to teach until I was almost 30. And I’m so glad because I had so much life experience to bring in with me.


Sam Demma (02:11):
How did you come to teach? What does, what did the journey look like?


Sara Daddario (02:17):
Okay. So when I started college straight out of high school, I’m first generation college graduate in my family. And the only reason I really signed up for college was because my friends and I found out we could get out of our senior econ class. If we went on the field trip to the junior college and while we were there, they immediately registered us. So really it was a, a planned, a ditch class that , but I I’m a musician, I’ve been a musician my whole life. So I a was like, oh, I’ll be a music major. And then I always kind of kept an English class in my back pocket and was like, oh, I took, you know, 12 music classes, but, and this one English class, cuz it’s easy for me. And I sort of kept going down that path and I realized sort of at the end, when it was time to transfer to a university like, oh, I don’t actually enjoy the study of music, but I really like English at the same time.


Sara Daddario (03:09):
I don’t know what I thought I was gonna do with it. And I was just like, I’m transferring as an English major. Still didn’t have a plan to be a teacher, but was doing a lot of volunt with teenagers. And it was funny. I went to the, I went to the university guidance counselor and was like, I don’t know what to do with my life. Like, I’m gonna get a degree in English. I don’t know, law writing. And she’s like, you have years of volunteer experience with teenagers, have you considered teaching? And I was like, oh, that’s a thing I should maybe think about and there was no going back for me. It was obviously the right path. The second I started doing it and started doing my pre-service hours in my credential program, I was like, oh, this is what I wanna do. And I tell my students, like when you’re doing the thing that you’re meant to do that saying like, you never feel do what you love and you’ll never work a day. And you, if like I get up at five o’clock every day, it has to be something I love to get up at five mm-hmm. like, I like sleep a lot, but I like teaching more. So that’s how I got here.


Sam Demma (04:08):
That’s that’s so cool. And do you still set aside time to explore your musical passions?


Sara Daddario (04:15):
Oh yeah, I do. Like just like hop. I mean really mostly at this point it’s probably far too many concerts on school nights that I, you know, shouldn’t be doing, but absolutely. You know, wh when there’s time, those are things that we love to do.


Sam Demma (04:30):
That’s awesome. And so aside from your guidance counselor, who seems like they really pushed you in this direction, or at least opened up your mindset to this op this option, did you have other teachers or people in your life that after you started talking about teaching kind of nudged you in that direction and what did they do for you?


Sara Daddario (04:47):
I have some teachers that that I a hundred percent credit for me being here and they’re they’ve happened at all times in my life. So I remember my 11th grade English teacher, Irene Matthews, who is now my neighbor, she’s long retired and she lives down the street for me. Nice. I see ire her out, doing her walk every day but she was the first teacher that I had that actually told me I was kind of a rotten kid. I was really in trouble a lot. I was not motivated. I was motivated by social things and not my school things. And she was the first teacher that said, Hey, you’re pretty good at writing. And you have a really good kind of grasp of reading. I think this class is something you can enjoy. And so from that moment, I sort of someone recognized that I was more than just a body in a chair and I had become like, oh, I have a gift for this.


Sara Daddario (05:40):
I should start trying and put an effort. And college is an English major. I had a professor who passed away a few years ago Dr. Ellen Caldwell. And she was just a teacher that I, if I ever could describe what I try to embody in the classroom. It’s this woman, it’s like an absolute acceptance of meeting your students where, where they’re at, but holding them to such a high standard and believing that they can get there no matter like it, with the right supports they can get there. And I didn’t even know when she was my professor that I wanted to be a teacher, but when I kind of decided I was gonna go into a credential program, I approached her about writing my my recommendation letters. And she said, this is absolutely the thing you should be doing. You were born for this, you’re helping other people in class.


Sara Daddario (06:30):
Like this is your path. And I was like, it is okay. And then just, I got so, so lucky at the beginning of my career. A and I don’t know, and some of these are people I still work with today cuz I still work in the same district I was hired into eventually. I mean, initially there was a lady that worked on the teaching staff, at least Bikeman at my school, first school I hired into and she I’d like teacher burnout is real because you’re new and because you’re good, they’re gonna ask you to do 500 things. I’m gonna protect you for your first two years and not get you on committees and I’m gonna get your feet under you. The person who was the district curriculum specialist was my mentor. I had administrators that were super encouraging and really fostered kind of personal connection with your colleagues and your students.


Sara Daddario (07:22):
And it’s almost, education’s kind of gone away from that kind of mentoring. In the last, I would say probably six or seven years, but having that foundation has allowed me to see like I should be that for other people. So I’m always reaching out to new teachers and giving them PEPs. And I know don’t wanna commit to being on this committee. But they’re the people that really kept me in it and having other teachers that I was colleagues with to look up to that I could just wander into their classroom and just observe and come away better is the best gift I have been given in my career. So I really think I was super lucky to just have all these amazing people that fall in my path.


Sam Demma (08:02):
That sounds like the perfect scenario, you know, like kinda it yeah. Like having great veteran teachers, having awesome mentors that walk up to you and are like, I’m about to protect you for these first two years. Like that’s, that’s like a gaurdian angel kind of thing, you know? Yeah. So you say that things have kind of shifted away from that in the past six, seven years. What, what do you mean by that?


Sara Daddario (08:27):
I think I see a lot of kind of trends in education. You know, I, I came into my career at the end of the nickel bee era when standardized testing was everything. Mm. And now we still have standardized testing, although it happens less frequently. And their kind of high stake testing happened fewer times in a student’s career. But, but definitely like there’s a lot of demand on a teacher now to perform more, to do more that teachers are not doing enough. And it’s funny, I think during COVID I don’t think there’s a teacher on the planet that felt like they were doing enough when we were all home because there’s nothing you can like there was, we could do. And we knew where those shortcomings were and we knew that those need and need conversations in the classroom with students that motivate them every day is the thing that keeps us go, keeps us going.


Sara Daddario (09:25):
But everyone is looking for like right now in education, there’s such a push for two things that I see. One and like student mental health supports, which is huge. Like students are screaming for it. Districts like mine are pretty progressive about getting students the support that they need and having recess resources for them. But but there are some that are just like it’s a family problem. That’s not our problem. And teachers who are struggling to help students kind of get to a point where they feel like they can seek out those supports or where their classrooms are safe spaces, where they can say this is happening in my life and it’s not okay. So that is a huge, it’s a huge thing that impacts us because whether a teacher is willing to accept the responsibility or not for a, a child’s wellbeing, that responsibility is still there.


Sara Daddario (10:19):
And especially for the, you know, at whatever your site is 54 minutes that you have them in the room, you have a responsibility to that child, whether you’re willing to accept it or not. Mm. And when you are a teacher who students share their stories with and share your lives with that becomes exhausting and crippling because there’s, your hands are tied so much. Yeah. but the other is the push for students to really, I mean, I teach high school and I see more and more now for students to sort of bridge that gap between high school and their adult life and make those transitions so much earlier. My district has many partnerships with like we have one with Google, we have one with Tesla and we have these pathways for students to, which are amazing opportunities. The campus I work, I work on has an artificial intelligence program that is, can make a pathway into a career and artificial intelligence.


Sara Daddario (11:15):
But when there’s that kind of pro pressure there’s, there also comes from the students. They don’t get that opportunity to be a kid and to just be a kid sitting in the stands at a football game with their friends on a Friday night. And so finding a way to bridge those gaps between the demands of sort of the world and the requests of the future on these students, and then allow them that last little bit of their adolescence that they get is, is a thing that’s really hard on us. I sit in my leadership class and I talk to them about, I have kids in here that are melting down because they, they don’t know what they wanna do for the next 60 years at 17. And they feel like their entire life is a failure because they don’t have that figured out and having the tools to have those conversations is hard. And that’s definitely a huge change from when I started my career and students were like, yep. Gonna go to college, I’ll figure it out. Like, and now they’re just live.


Sam Demma (12:13):
Yeah. You’re speaking to my younger self. I’m only 22, but I at 13 moved to a different country to pursue a dream and a goal. And then at 17 took a fifth year of high school and stayed back and then took a gap year and then went to university and then dropped outta university. Like I thought I was making your path. Yeah. I thought I was making all the wrong choices. Right. I think those conversations are so important. How do you, how do you think you’ve effectively tried to navigate those conversations so far in your classrooms? Like how do you have those discussions?


Sara Daddario (12:40):
I have an analogy I use with my kids all the time and, and they’re hysterical. I say, there’s a party on Friday night. How can you get there? And they’ll shout out a million answers. Like I’ll take the bus, I’ll walk, I’ll ride a skateboard, I’ll have a friend, I’ll call an Uber. And they come up with a, like, I love, I love the ones that are like, I’m gonna ask the pizza delivery guy to pick me up on his way, or I’m gonna hire sled dogs. Yeah. And I say, okay, all these ways that you get to the party, do they take the same amount of time? And they say no. And I said, right, it’s the same with college and the rest of your life. You’re on your own timeline. And you’re on own path. How you get there is doesn’t matter.


Sara Daddario (13:17):
Doesn’t matter how long it takes. You doesn’t matter how you get there. What matters is that at the end of the day, you’re happy with the choices you made and you get somewhere. And I think being a person who really struggled kind of just out of high school to know what I wanted to do, and everybody just kind of said, figure it out. I didn’t have mentors or th or people like that. But a, and being able to say to them, like I didn’t become a teacher until I was almost 30. Like, and I’m glad because I needed to figure out that that was the right thing for me is a, is an easy into for the kid. Who’s like all my friends, sorry, lunch, just standard. So that’s the bill. you know, all my friends know where they’re going and I have no idea what I’m going, what I wanna do with my life. And I tell them, you know, you’re gonna get to college and all your friends are going to realize that a business major, wasn’t what they really wanted to do. And they’re gonna change their major and start from scratch, or they’re gonna figure out that college wasn’t for them. And there were these other options, or they’re gonna find something that makes them amazingly happy and they’re gonna get out of their bus and they’re gonna hop in a car and go to their party. And it just matters that they get there.


Sam Demma (14:23):
I love that. That’s such a cool analogy. Did you hear that somewhere or did you just kind of come up with it?


Sara Daddario (14:29):
No it was just lots of years of talking to students.

Sara Daddario (14:33):
There you go. That’s Sara’s wisdom. There’s a lot of ways to get to the party. Just get there.


Sam Demma (14:38):
Did you have to navigate that as a child? Did you know, did you have no way to the party and you just started calling the pizza person?


Sara Daddario (14:45):
Kinda I was a child that grew up with a pretty significant amount of trauma. I have my mom was a single mom. I have, fortunately, I have four parents, which is great. You know, my parents divorced and remarried, but when I was in high school and I was navigating that they were sort of sorting out their own lives. As adults now, it has been nothing but character building. Like I said, I have the great, the best relationship with all of my parents, but at the time I grew up in a different time and, you know, parents weren’t as focused on their kids in the eighties and the early nineties as they are now. So I didn’t really have anybody to help me figure that out. I had a counselor in high school who, this is maybe my favorite, favorite thing about career.


Sara Daddario (15:31):
I should have mentioned her as a mentor earlier, but she was a brand new counselor, my senior year of high school. And I got myself into a situation in high school where they weren’t entirely sure I was going to finish. And thankfully I overcame the, the struggle that I was going through and finished very high in my class did very well, but that counselor kind of never gave up on me and said, you know, you’re, where are you gonna go to college? You gotta go to college. What’s your plan? And I was like, I don’t know, I’ll go on the field trip. You know, like I mentioned, and then it was about my third year of teaching because in education there’s always budget cuts and shuffling. And I got moved to a, a junior high site and it was that same counselor.


Sara Daddario (16:12):
It was for last year of her career as a counselor. And I got to be her colleague. Wow. and so she really like made such a huge impact and, and you got, I got to kind of see the scope of her life and what I was doing, but she was that person for me that said like, you know, she was the one with the pep talk that said, and I, of course at 17 was like, okay, lady, whatever. . But to be able to kind of reconnect with her as an adult and look her in the face and say, no, I’m here because of you and your life has your career has directly affected mine. And now here we are together is a pretty cool thing.


Sam Demma (16:49):
And not only does those experiences occur with colleagues and teachers that taught you, but I’m assuming that now it also happens with you and your former students, right?


Sara Daddario (16:58):
Yes. Yeah. And you know what, thank God for social media, because I know we see so many negative things on social media, but I think we gotta, I I’m, I’m making an argument with my district right now that because of these TikTok challenges that are happening that are so negative , they’re like we wanna challenge kids to do a weekend on social media. And I’m like, why don’t we challenge ’em to do something positive with it instead. Yeah. But because of social media, I’m still connected to so many students that I’ve taught. I’ve been invited to their weddings, I’ve held their babies. And I don’t feel like I’ve been a teacher that long. I don’t feel that old, but I am. And so I’m waiting, I know some time in the next few years I’ll get the first, oh, you were my mom’s teacher. And that I hear about that from colleagues and that’s what I’m waiting for. So


Sam Demma (17:42):
That’s so awesome. Yeah, that sounds great. And I’ve talked to other educators and they’ve told me they have a, a rainy day file on their desk where they keep all the thank you notes from past kids. Is that true?


Sara Daddario (17:52):
Yes, that’s true. I had a really, really great administrator my first year teaching, who said, keep an envelope in your desk, put all that stuff in there. And if a couple years goes by and you haven’t put anything in the envelope, maybe think about retiring. So we all have it. And we all, it’s great. Sometimes you pull out and you have a good cry and sometimes you pull it out and you go, I have no idea who this kid is anymore, but all right. I thought I made an impact. sometimes you pull it out. And, and the ones that I love the most are the ones with the kid that is the biggest pain in the butt. That is never absent. That is the reason you grind your teeth at night. You know, the one that makes you question every choice you’ve ever had, and that you would never name your child. That, because that name is forever ruined because of this child. I have notes from those kids. Yeah. And those are the things, or I have work from those kids, cuz that’s a good reminder. Like if I could got, if I could get that student to be successful, then I need to keep doing this.


Sam Demma (18:50):
Amazing. And you know, because there’s a lot of negativity going on right now in the world. I’m curious to know if one of those stories of transformation kind of sticks out in your mind. Maybe there’s one kid you can remember or think of and something that happened. And if it’s a very serious story as well, you can change their name. You know, we can call them Bob or something, but curious.


Sara Daddario (19:10):
Yeah. There’s tons of them. Oh my gosh. I have so many I think, okay. So I, I don’t wanna get political in this, but I always, when my students are frustrated with something, like my district has a very strict dress code policy that the students can argue is gender bias. I, I kind of take a, you can complain about it or you can do something about it. Mm. So I had this student, he was a freshman. I had him about six years ago. I’m going to change his name to Michael. Nice. And we’re gonna refer to the student as Michael. So he’s graduated now and gone on with his life. But when I had this student as a freshman, he was really impossible to connect with. And that’s the thing that I strive to do in my classroom. I tell my students on the first day, I, if you don’t like English, that’s okay.


Sara Daddario (20:06):
Like if you hate reading, if you’ve been fake reading your whole life, or if you have never written a paper, if you are very familiar with the spark notes website for every assignment you’ve ever been given that’s okay. But you’re gonna know in this room that someone sees you and knows what you’re doing and is connected with you. And no matter what I did, I could not connect with this student. And the behaviors were escalating and we did data dives into family history. We had meetings and, and meetings and I couldn’t connect with the student no matter what I did. And then the election happened the first election when president Trump was elected to office and the next day this student came in and was visibly shaken up. And I said, I said, just off the cuff, like, Hey Michael, I know you don’t trust me, but will, you know, if you wanna talk about something I’m here for you.


Sara Daddario (20:59):
I know I’m not the person you connect with, but talk to someone. And he held back after class and it was because my class was right before lunch for him. And if a student wants to stay in at lunch, like of their own free will is pretty serious because nothing is going to make a high school child miss lunch. So he said, can I talk to you? And I was like, sure. And I sat down and he said, you know, I feel lost right now. I feel scared. I feel afraid, but I feel like I have to do something about it. This student then became the biggest proponent of student voter registration, student education. He’d be out there at lunch, telling people I don’t care who you vote for. I don’t care where your politics are. I don’t care if you agree with me, if you wanna sit down and talk about it, we can talk about it.


Sara Daddario (21:41):
But I care that you do something because not enough people are doing something and to get to see that student really struggle and then take action and become like this amazing student who was participating in youth in government day for the local city. And has gone on to study politics in college because this was a moment. And all I did, he did not wanna connect with me at all. But when he was, he knew my room was a safe space and I would guide him to help take the action he needed and he took it. And that, that is one of the biggest things for me, because it’s so affected his life. I have students that have come out in my class with, you know, and, and students have changed their gender identity. Students who have been the Vic victims of bullying have confronted their bullies in my classroom and to watch them become whole and go out and live these amazing lives. And knowing that my room was the safe space, where that happened is absolutely the reason to show up every day.


Sam Demma (22:44):
How is that safe space created? I’m like, I would assume that every educator listening is like, I want my kids to know that they can come to me when they’re scared. You know, what, what do you think allows your students to have that level of trust with you?


Sara Daddario (22:56):
Okay. So I think it’s a bunch of things. I believe really strongly in the say, do ratio. And so when I go over that with my students, and that’s what percentage of what you say you’re going to do, do you actually do? And I live that every day with my students. If I say, I’m going to come find you in another class to check up, to see you’re okay, I’m gonna do that. I’m a child of divorce and thank God. My dad said repeatedly as a kid, like to us, when we were kids, if I say, I’m gonna be there, I’m gonna be there. And that was a value that, that was kind of instilled in us. You’re worth is the most important thing that you have, and it reflects your character. Two, the other one comes from my mom and my mom, my mom, when she, she, my mom passed away a few years ago, but she was a lady who her entire philosophy in life was you love people as hard as you can.


Sara Daddario (23:49):
And when they are difficult and they push you away, you love them harder. whether you like it or not. And if you are struggling with loving somebody, then that’s your problem and you need to get better at it. so I think that’s another thing that I really kind of use with my students. They are loved and accepted in my classroom. It doesn’t matter how awful they are that day. And certainly we have those days. But they know when they come back in the next day, they get a fresh start every day. So keeping your word, creating a space where a student knows they’re seen and valued and safe and creating a space, a community where they really know each other. Hmm. I utilize social contracts in my classroom. So my students, my students create the environment they want to be in.


Sara Daddario (24:32):
Which if I, I, it’s funny, I’m in my boardroom and there’s two doors and the, this quote is on one, but the social contracts on the other one, and I can’t like turn for you to see it. That’s okay. They come up with the most amazing things and they sit in groups and they have discuss about what do we want this room to be like for us? So they create their own environment. And all I do is I hold them to it. And I say, no, we said, we were gonna do this. Are we doing that? And do we need to change that? So giving student voice in your classroom, giving them choice and supporting them unconditionally, knowing that they’re not gonna hold a grudge with them is kind of the best way to create that space and giving them a fresh start every time they need it. I don’t know what I’m doing every day. I can’t imagine a 14 year old knows or is in control of their emotions every day. Yeah. Oh, and I teach , I should tell you this. I teach freshman English, but I teach it to RSP students in English learners. So I have the toughest population on our campus at the you age. Like, and I I’m their favorite class. Like, so if I can do it, anybody can do it. yeah.


Sam Demma (25:33):
I love that. That’s so cool. That’s such like a, and you probably feel so fulfilled cuz you’re doing such meaningful work, you know, every educator should.


Sara Daddario (25:41):
Feel fulfilled. I feel tired.


Sam Demma (25:44):
Yeah,

Sara Daddario (25:46):
But I feel


Sam Demma (25:48):
Well, maybe you gotta stop doing those after-school concerts, Sara. Totally joking. But oh, this has been awesome. If you could go back in time and give your first year yourself in education as a teacher, one or two pieces of advice, knowing what you know now, what would you tell your younger self?


Sara Daddario (26:07):
Get involved with something you love on campus? I work with the student leadership program and I, my third year teaching another amazing teacher mentor, Alan Carter said, Hey, I want you to come advise this class, cuz I think it’s the right fit for you. And I’ve been working in student activities ever since because that, for me, I love teaching all students, but getting out of bed and making an impact to my campus through my student activities program is the reason I get outta bed, my leadership kids like that time that we’re spending, setting up an assembly or a rally building balloons. And I get to watch them kind of put on this creative, amazing event and they’re goofy and they’re silly with each other. Like I live for that. Yeah. Because I get to see their work pay off. And if I would’ve, it’s not something I would’ve ever thought of being involved in.


Sara Daddario (26:58):
If this other person didn’t say you need to have something in your day, besides teaching, besides grading, besides parent phone calls, like find something you love, even if it’s advising a club, that’s one of your hobbies. Something that you have in common with students, find a way to put that in your Workday because that’s your break. That’s your Oasis in the middle of the day. And then the only other piece of advice I would give is remember that parents so rarely hear positive things about their kids, especially the really difficult kids and try and find something positive to share with their families because they wanna hear good news sometimes too.


Sam Demma (27:36):
Love that. That’s such a good piece of, I actually never heard the second one before on the show, so that’s awesome. that was fresh. Well, nice. There you go. If someone wants to reach out to you ask a question or just get in touch and it’s another educator listening, what would be the best way for them to do so?


Sara Daddario (27:51):
Email (daddario_s@auhsd.us) and I will make sure that you have my email so that you can attach it somewhere. Cuz my last name is very long and complicated it Italian’s gotta love. Yeah. So but email’s the best way to get to me and it may take me a couple of days to get to you because I’m an activities director and we’re in homecoming season. So the emails are long. But I will, I will answer your question. I’ll try to help. I also write a teacher blog on Tumblr. If you’re on Tumblr, the last social like Tumblr will be the last social media standing after everyone dies. So find “these kids are killing me” is the name of my tum bug. So you’re welcome to come to find me there and we can talk about PD.


Sam Demma (28:36):
That’s awesome. Sara, thank you so much. I know no one can see the video, but I’m surprised you didn’t use your hands like this the whole time.


Sara Daddario (28:43):
I’m keeping ’em below the screen.


Sam Demma (28:46):
That’s awesome. But thank you so much. This has been great. Keep up the awesome work and we’ll talk soon.


Sara Daddario (28:52):
Thank you.


Sam Demma (28:53):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You’ll have access to networking events throughout 2 20 21 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Sara

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 22, 2021 by Experiential Learning Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Scott Mclnnis – Leadership Teacher and Teacher Librarian at Selkirk Secondary School

Scott Mclnnis - Leadership Teacher and Teacher Librarian at Selkirk Secondary School
About Scott Mclnnis

Scott Mclnnis is the Leadership Teacher and Teacher Librarian at Selkirk Secondary School.  Scott is passionate about helping students appreciate the fulfillment in helping themselves and their community at large.  When Scott is not in the classroom you can find him outdoors, moving his body and doing something physical.  

Connect with Scott: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Selkirk Secondary School

Adam Grant (Author and Thinker)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s guest is Scott Mclnnis. Scott is the leadership and teacher librarian at Selkirk Secondary School. He is passionate about helping students appreciate the fulfillment in helping themselves and their community. Scott reached out about doing some programs with his leadership class and school community. We built a great relationship and it was an honor and a privilege to interview him today on the podcast. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Scott, welcome to the high performing educator. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself for the educators who are tuning in?


Scott Mclnnis (00:50):
Sure. Sam, thanks again for the invitation thrilled to be here. I, have enjoyed meeting you and having discussions about what you do for kids in schools and yeah, just thrilled to little bit more about with you about that today. So yeah, my name is Scott Mclnnis. I teach at Selkirk secondary school in Kimberly, British Columbia. I teach at grade 10, 11 and 12 combined leadership class. And I’m also the teacher librarian here. So I deal a lot with grade 12 careers, getting them prepped for university academic study blocks independent study courses, things like that. So a bit of a mixed bag. Yeah.


Sam Demma (01:30):
And what, what got you into education? Tell me a little bit more about your own childhood growing up, going to school and what led you down this path?


Scott Mclnnis (01:38):
Sure. Sure. it’s probably my earliest memory of being drawn into education was I, I I got involved in ski instructing when I, when I was living in my hometown in Ontario, just outside of Peterborough. And I remember I was, I was 15 years old and, and after getting my, my level one certification, they kind of thrown me to the Wolf, the, with sort of 15 or 16, four year old kids. And, you know, having just to come up with personal strategies of how to manage those kids, keep them busy, keep them safe, all that stuff. I, I just, I realized that, you know, not only that we could, we could also have a great time. I just, I, I kind of knew back then that I had a bit of a knack perhaps for with, with kids specifically.


Scott Mclnnis (02:29):
I, you know, after that, I, I, you know, admittedly was kind of a lost late teen and early 20 person. I went to university hoping to become a, an airline pilot but you know con enough nine 11 happened kind of the first week of, of my schooling. And so I went, you know, a couple years at university, not really knowing what I wanna do, studying history and other humanities courses that I was interested in and yeah, finished my degree. I had all my roommates and my friends were enrolled in an education program at that time. So they were kind of, they had their plans set and were moving forward to becoming teachers where I really didn’t have a plan. You know, I, I finished my undergraduate degree at ni university in north bay, Ontario. I, and I, I worked for a little bit kind of, kind of worked you know, more in the trades just kind of as a laborer and, and, and sort of just, you know, passing time, I guess, so to speak, trying to figure out where my niche was in life.


Scott Mclnnis (03:33):
And then I, I took an opportunity and kind of through caution the wind and, and decided to go to South Korea to teach English. I had a couple of friends over in Asia that were teaching and said, it was a great time. It was, you know, adventurous, you made good money. So I thought, you know I’ll give it a try. And I went over there working in an elementary school. They had a big influx at the time the government of South Korea was implementing having a native speaker and every public in the country. So yeah, I took a full advantage of that and just had a wonderful experience. You know, some of the best memories of my life are, are over in South Korea. I stayed there for two years. Really got my feet wet as an educator.


Scott Mclnnis (04:14):
Yeah. I came back, took my education degree again at Ning. And following that, I, I moved from Ontario here to British Columbia, again, sort of the same idea, sort of following a, a job opportunity at a small independent school here in Kimberly where I was teaching music and general studies to sort of kindergarten to grade six. An opportunity came shortly thereafter to become an administrator. So I was principal to school know by the time I was in my early thirties there which was again an incredible experience as an educator. And then I just decided to you know, sort of spread my wings a little bit and ventured into the public system where I became high school educator. So you know, at the secondary level, I’ve only been here for sort of three, four years, but I really love the love, the experience. I feel like it’s a different kind of energy. I didn’t have so much Gusto, I suppose, for you know, putting on snow pants and tightening boots and things as I did for sort of the intellectual challenges that, that high school afforded. I just, I just found it was sort of a change for me personally, that I needed. So yeah, I’m really happy. I made that choice. And here we are today.


Sam Demma (05:22):
Do you remember any of the, the Korean you learned while you were there?


Scott Mclnnis (05:25):
You know what, that’s such a good question. And there’s a, a great gentleman here. That’s a business owner in Kimberly that’s Korean, and I’ve been trying to speak a little bit more with him, cuz it was, you know, this is 12 years ago and I can still read and write, okay. It’s a very, it’s a kind of language that makes a lot a sense to read and write it. It’s very fanatic. But my speaking, I did admittedly kind of lose it and I’ve, I’ve been trying to practice with this gentleman, just gentleman young which has been a ton of fun. He, he get a, he gets a kick outta me, so yeah, trying to, trying to get back into it cause I really, I really don’t wanna abandon it. Totally. So no, that’s been a fun process as well. That’s awesome.


Sam Demma (06:04):
That’s so cool. Yeah. And you’ve, you’ve done so many different roles in schools, you know, not only different roles, but different locations, Ontario, BC, Korea. What do you enjoy the most about the teaching profession? Like what keeps you hopeful and motivated and inspired to show up every day and continue doing what you’re doing?


Scott Mclnnis (06:24):
You know what, I, that’s such a great question. I ask myself that a lot and I think it changes you know, it has evolved as I’ve become you know developed my career I suppose, but you know, now it’s definitely trying to help kids to make a difference and to, to, you know, set kids, especially kids that are vulnerable onto the right path in life and, and trying not to have them slip under the cracks a little bit. You know, that’s, that’s how I spend the majority of my time is going into my way to make sure that you know, I know that those kids have a tough home life or you know, they just have had bad breaks in life or they don’t have all the opportunities that most of the other kids have. I try to put forth as much energy as I can into helping them succeed.


Scott Mclnnis (07:12):
And for me that that’s the ultimate passion and enjoyment I get is, is helping other people you know, before I think it was, you know, as a younger man in my late twenties, it was more, you know, setting myself up for a career, maybe making money, buying a house. It was, it was more personal development in my, you know, just sort of setting myself up in general life where now is it’s, it’s all about the enjoyment of helping others. That’s where I find, you know, the meaning and passion of the whole thing. And I hope that continues until the, the day I retire.


Sam Demma (07:44):
Yeah, that’s awesome. And that kind of makes sense as to why you teach leadership as well. Right.


Scott Mclnnis (07:49):
It does. Yeah, it does. And it’s, you know, in the leadership class, there’s, it’s a mixed bag of everybody. You know I do get a lot of vulnerable of students in there that try to learn maybe some, some life skills. So it’s, it’s really important to me that they they’re heard and they’re given some opportunity to get out in the community, do some good things, cuz then they can also hear that passion that I’m talking about. Right. Helping other people they, they feel that sense of pride too. So, yeah.


Sam Demma (08:17):
And when did you start teaching leadership in your career journey and what actually kind of pushed you in that direction to take it on?


Scott Mclnnis (08:25):
Sure. Yeah. It, it wasn’t so much of a I guess a choice per se. It was part of the contract that I accepted here at SU secondary. Yes. And I just, I just found, it was one of those things that was meant to be when I got here. It was the vice principal at the time was teaching. There was only seven or eight kids and we were working outta the library. There, it was a new program at the, at the high school here. So there wasn’t, we were still developing the structure and the curriculum and all that stuff and I’ve, I’ve taken it and run with it. And now we’re, you know, full at 30 kids with a waiting list, full semesters and it’s, it’s really taken off. So yeah, I’ve, I’ve only been doing it now. This would be my fourth year with a co every year’s changed, especially because of COVID, it’s been kind of, you know, retooling how I do things, but I think it’s been great for me and, and, and for the kids to have, you know, some of them in grade 12, it’s their third time taking leadership and to, to try and develop a course that meets everybody’s needs, whether it’s your first time or your third time, I think has been a great challenge for me.


Scott Mclnnis (09:24):
So, yeah,


Sam Demma (09:26):
That’s awesome. And this will sound like a silly question but I think it’s important to ask, you know, for other educators listening, who don’t maybe even have a leadership class in the, or school or mm-hmm, have never been involved in leadership activities. Why do you think leadership is important? Like why do you think the class and the curriculum is important for the students that sit in your, in your class?


Scott Mclnnis (09:45):
Such a, a great question, Sam, and I think, you know, it’s not a program that’s offered at every school. I know in our district locally here, I’m the only one really that does it at this high school because it is, it is pretty demanding. So it’s, you know from a teacher’s perspective, there’s a lot of out of the timetable stuff that’s required. So I think it’s extremely important because it, I get kids out in the community sort of their, their summative project, so to speak their, their final exam is a community action project, or they’ll go out in small groups and, and, and have a a can drive for the food bank or they’ll volunteer at the youth center, or they will support the junior hockey team during home games, or just all these little different pieces that actually, you know, when we look at the, excuse me, some of the leadership theory that we learned throughout the semester, they really get to, to get their hands dirty and, and explore some of that in more detail.


Scott Mclnnis (10:40):
So yeah, for me, I think the importance of getting out there and, and understanding the importance of being involved in community is the biggest aspect of that course that I think kids can take away from it because it is a lifelong thing. You know, one, you, you understand that again, helping people in your community is an extremely valuable and important and fulfilling role that never leaves you. So I, I just think it’s really important for kids to learn that at a young age and hopefully they can pass that on to their families one day or in whatever other avenue they’re, they’re pursuing, because I do, I do know that they feel it important once they actually do it.


Sam Demma (11:19):
Yeah. And then it’s their job to make it cool. Right.


Scott Mclnnis (11:22):
Yeah,xactly. Everything in between is just about having some fun. Right. you know, just kind of the goal-setting piece and really understanding who they are as a person. I, I, I think, and, and, and, you know, definitely pushing people inside of their comfort zone. I get so many students in my classes who are like, I, you know, day one, they are just so nervous to get up in front of the other class and give a speech or a, a short presentation. And that’s, that’s pretty much all we do, you know, for our, our, our assignments in class is you teach kids about something that you’re passionate about or you know, we’ll look at some different examples of inspiring leadership from around the world. And, and so to see those kids that, that go from, you know, I can’t do this to, that’s not so bad. I can, now I can do this. Anytime I think is, is really cool for them to witness as well for their personal development.


Sam Demma (12:11):
Yeah. That’s so true. And I’m sure, or even you as a teacher probably had moments just like your students where you thought, holy crap, I don’t know if I can do that. And you probably had examples of other people, whether it’s mentors or, you know, veteran teachers, you know, kind of take you under your wing. And I’m curious to know if you had mentors along your educational journey. And if so, you know, do you remember some of their names and what they did for you that had an impact?


Scott Mclnnis (12:34):
I do. I actually, it’s funny cuz probably, I don’t know, a month and a half ago, I, I actually got in touch with one of my mentors. He was my high school PHED slash health education teacher and also my basketball coach. And I reached out to him, he’s still teaching at the high school I went to and he’s actually retiring this year. And just, just to get in touch with him again and, and just say, you know, hello, stop in how much I appreciated. You know, his, his passion spilling over into me. Like he taught he really more than anybody taught me how to be a man and how to be respond for my decisions and how to again, take responsibility over things. That for me, that’s the one that really stuck out early in my life. Again, I was, I was not the best student.


Scott Mclnnis (13:26):
You know, I wasn’t always doing the right thing or making the right choices. And he was one of those guys that just pulled me aside and said, smart enough, you got all the tools it’s time to use. ’em Like, you know enough’s enough kind of thing, but in a, in a very kind and gentle and, and supportive way. Mm. So yeah, Craig ne he’s, he’s the man out in Peterborough, Ontario at Thomas, a Stewart secondary he’s, he’s the guy that really sort of set me on a path for growing up more than anything else. But you know, as I got into the profession later when I started at again, the small independent school here in Kimberly, the founder, one of the founders at school Ursula, Solado, she, she was just so passionate about serving the community and serving kids that, that, that really just it, although maybe I didn’t realize it at the time, that’s also what I was all about.


Scott Mclnnis (14:19):
And I think she was just able to bring that outta me. She was so supportive, you know, there was times in my first you know, month as a teacher, I wanted to quit. I just found the planning so hard in the marking and was I doing the right thing, you know, having really tough days. And, and she was the one that was just like, yeah, just press on. Like, it gets easier every day. You’re in the right business. You’re good at what you do. And, and so, yeah, I’ll never forget her love and support especially early in my career. Sort of as a full-time educator, it was really, really important for me to have that. So yeah, those two for sure, really stick out in my mind and I’ll, I’ll never forget you know, the things they said and did for me along the way. Cause I, I wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for them, for sure.


Sam Demma (15:06):
Shout out to Craig and Ursula yeah, you got it. That’s awesome. I think we also learn not only from other people, but from our own experiences. I think that’s one of the biggest Wells of learning we can pull from. And I’m curious to know what learnings you’ve had. Maybe there are some road bumps along your, you know, teaching journey or things that have happened in class or outside of class and you reflected on it and, and realized something that you might think could be beneficial to another educator.


Scott Mclnnis (15:34):
Yeah. I think, you know what it’s, especially when people are getting started you know, it’s, it can be, it can be a challenge in this business early on. I think it, you have to have the confidence in yourself to believe that you’ve made the right decision, you know, sort of for hopefully the rest of your career. Yeah. And I know like teachers have a, have quite a high burnout rate, but I think it’s, it’s that sticktuitiveness that you know, is, is extremely important for young educators. I know for me, it was, you know, I always had the message growing up, whether from my parents or from even the two mentors that I mentioned that, you know, what, when, when the tough, when the going gets cut, tough, the tough get going, sort of thing, you know, you can’t just fold and, and, and quit, cuz that’ll be your go to all the time when things get hard, you know, you have to face that and overcome challenges because you learn from it and you grow as a person that makes it tougher.


Scott Mclnnis (16:28):
And you know, I’ve had just lots of stories that like the at growing up where, you know, life wasn’t necessarily easy. But instead of just saying, you know, throwing my hands up saying I quit, it’s it’s press on. And I think, you know, even the decision to, to, you know, in my early twenties of packing up and going to, to South Korea, I mean that wasn’t, that wasn’t easy to, to be on your own and to haven’t make really, really hard to decisions on your own. You know, that’s what I try and, and instill upon the generation of kids these days is, you know, what, you have to try your best to have the good decisions, maybe outweigh the ones that you reflect on and think you had of, you know, you could have done better when it, when the times are tough. So yeah, I think, I think more than anything, it’s just, it’s just to be resilient, you know? And especially, I know it’s, I know kids have a tough time these days with, you know, a lot of different things that I know I didn’t necessarily have as an influence in my life. There’s a lot of different social pressures and anxieties and things out there. But I think if we can build resiliency in kids at an early age, then it’ll really help them moving forward.


Sam Demma (17:39):
So, awesome. I love that. And I couldn’t agree more, I think, yeah, COVID was a, an example of trying to build resiliency, right. We were all going through the same situation, definitely in different boats, as someone else told me, you know, some people had yachts and others had little dinky boats with no paddles. Right, totally. You know, the situation was similar. And the fact that we were all faced with a challenge and we had to figure out a way to overcome it. And I think that although it’s been so difficult for students, it’s actually building the resilience with than them. And I think it’ll make their futures a lot easier. for it. I think they’ll be a lot resilient, more resilient in their, in their future career choices and also their own other difficulties that might come up in their life. I’m curious to know if you could go back to year one and kind of impart some advice on, you know, year one, education, Scott what advice would you give you younger self?


Scott Mclnnis (18:31):
Oh boy, that’s a really good question. I think, I think to take advantage of opportunities that are, that are presented, you know and, and to give, to make sure that you’re doing self care, you know what I mean? Like, as, as a, and just to clarify, Sam, you’re asking as a first year educator, you’re asking what’s, what’s what I go back and tell myself. Yeah. So yeah,


Sam Demma (18:52):
First year, first couple years.


Scott Mclnnis (18:54):
Yeah, definitely. It’s number one is save all your stuff you don’t ever think that any resources that you’ll, you know, never use again, won’t be helpful cuz they are. And, and number two is just make sure that you have time for yourself, right? Like we, we always do talk about that, that you know, you can’t be at your best self unless you’re feeling, you know, the best that you can. Mm. And I think, again, it’s, it’s a tough job in the first couple of years, you have to make sure that you, you know, when it, the time rolls around that you put things away and go home and, and do something that you enjoy because again, it can be overwhelming at times and, and, and some of the demands can be quite the pressure cooker, but it’s, it’s, you know, for me, I, I don’t think I did a great job of that.


Scott Mclnnis (19:39):
And it was you know I think it did have some impacts just on, on, you know, personal relationships and maybe a little bit of my personal health, but you know, after hearing that from, from more seasoned educators, like, you know, it’s got you just, you gotta, you gotta shutter down man, and, and take some time and, and, you know, make sure you’re skiing on the weekends or, you know, whatever it is to, to take that time for yourself. Cause it clears your head and there’s, there’s, there’s, you know, no question about it, that it, it works. So I think if I could change something, it would just be that, you know, take a little more time for myself and, and things would’ve worked out just fine also, and not be so sort of stressed about doing the best job all the time. Cause there’s a lot of factors that are outta, outta your control as an educator as well. And no matter how well you plan for a day, it’s not gonna work the way you thought. So yeah, just make sure you’re at the top of your mental game, I think more than anything by pursuing your passions, for sure.


Sam Demma (20:32):
I love that. I think there was a quote I saw by Adam Grant and someone’s auto email responder that said play is not a, excuse me, , that’s cute. The auto responder said play is not something that should be an after the fact thing that you use when you have time play is actually something that exists. It should exist on your to-do list. And I’ve read that quote. And I was like, whoa, that’s so true because we actually put ourself into an amazing mental state when we are enjoying life and you’re gonna do better work when you’re enjoying things. right.


Scott Mclnnis (21:08):
Totally just, you know, I agree with you, Sam, not only should it be on your list, but it should be near the top. I mean, it’s, you know we are better when we’re, when we’re happy and when we’re, you know, fulfilled doing the things we want. So no question about that. Ah, I love


Sam Demma (21:22):
It. I love it. Scott, this has been a great conversation. If an educator’s listening feels a little inspired or wants to ask a question or figure out how they could grow just as nice a beard as yours although no one can see it right now. What would be the best way for an educator to get in touch with you and reach out?


Scott Mclnnis (21:37):
Yeah, sure. Email me anytime. My school email is Scott.McInnis@sd6.bc.ca. That’s my school email reach out. I’d love to hear from anybody, especially those teaching leadership, share some resources with you. Yeah, just have a general chat. It’d be always nice to, to develop those networks. So yeah, anytime.


Sam Demma (22:02):
Awesome. Scott, thank you so much. Great chatting with you on the show and keep up the great work.


Scott Mclnnis (22:07):
Appreciate it Sam. Thanks again for the chat.


Sam Demma (22:10):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Scott

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 20, 2021 by Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Mike Loudfoot – Former Educator with over 30 years of experience.

Mike Loudfoot - Former educator with over 30 years of experience.
About Mike Loudfoot

Simply put, Mike Loudfoot is the teacher that changed my life as a high school student and young man. When I think about my experience as a student, it was teachers like Mike that made it worthwhile. He saw through my identity as an athlete and made personal connections with every student in his classroom.

His passion in our class rubbed off on me and helped me overcome one of the toughest personal periods of my high school experience. Hundreds of graduates from our high school quote Loudfoot as their favourite and most impactful teacher. In this episode, we dive a little deeper into his personal principles and values when it comes to education and life.

Connect with Mike: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Tom and Huck (movie)

Paul’s Road to Damascus Conversion Story Summary

Ontario Student Assistance Program (OSAP)

William Wilberforce (abolitionist)

Slavery by Another Name (documentary)

Cornel West – American philosopher

Speech for Mike
The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. This interview today with Michael Loudfoot has to be one of my favorites. Simply put, Mike was the teacher in high school who made the largest impact on me. He was the educator who made a personal connection and was so passionate about his material that passion rubbed off on all the students in his classroom.


Sam Demma (01:05):
He was one of the teachers I had who built personal relationships with every single student and saw me not only as Sam, the soccer player, but more importantly as Sam, the human being. When I think back to high school, Mike is the educator and teacher in my experience that made it worthwhile, that made a massive impact. That forced me to stay curious. That encouraged me to stay curious. And I’m so glad that I was able to sit down with Mike on today’s interview and dive a little deeper into his personal principles and values. When it comes to education in life, he was an educator for over 30 years, years did so much philanthropic work while he was in school as a teacher. And now also outside of school. Anyway, I hope you enjoy this interview with Mike Loudfoot, and I will see you on the other side.


Sam Demma (01:54):
Mike welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself off to educators who might be listening?


Mike Loudfoot (02:05):
Well, I taught for 31 years at St. Mary and in Pickering and I retired recently about three years ago and I, I missed the teaching. I loved teaching kids and young adults and I don’t miss all the other things with teaching the marking and all the other things that go along with that. But I, I do miss teaching. I’ve always been a pursuer of knowledge and that what a great venue teaching was for that.


Sam Demma (02:39):
Where did that desire begin for you not only to teach, but also to continue pursuing knowledge and information?


Mike Loudfoot (02:47):
Well, I, I, I think that the, the issue if, if someone’s thinking about going into teaching, I mean, it’s a tough road, a hole right now, but things change, but I think that you, you have to have a curiosity about about everything. And I think without curiosity, I don’t think you, you make a very good teacher because you being cur curious pushes you forward. And because you’re curious, you you’re, you enjoy your work. And if you’re curious and you enjoy your work, that will transpire into the classroom. So that’s really the issue is that teachers by their very nature need to want to find out about things, right? They, you can’t get stale. I, I mean, I, I re even my last year I was researching right up to the end. Right. Because it it’s just a, it’s a passion. Right. It’s and that’s real and, and not a passion as a, as a cliche. Yeah. A passion as in this is what is a big part of, of your identity, right? Not that teaching was a big part of my identity. I’m, I’m fine not teaching, but the while you’re teaching or while you’re doing a job, same as now, I’ve done other, I’m doing other things. Right. So whatever you’re trying to do, you should try and, and master that while you’re doing it. Right.


Sam Demma (04:18):
Yeah. Well, where, where curiosity come from? Like did, were you just a curious person growing up, or at some point in your own journey, did you start really exploring things?


Mike Loudfoot (04:28):
I grew up pretty poor. But but my parents, I mean, I, I never lacked for food or clothing or anything, but we had, there was nothing, there was no extra money or anything. So I was essentially feral. And it was a time period where you didn’t lock your doors and, you know, you left in the morning and as long as you came back for supper, things were good. So, so I was able to, to explore things, right. And I, I, I attune my, my early childhood to sort of H Tom Sawyer and Huck fin existence. I was, I was camping and fishing and hunting and exploring and riding my bicycle. And I had a group of other there there’s, there could be another issue is, is that your peer, you, you, you tend to, you know, travel with the peer group there like you, right.


Mike Loudfoot (05:22):
Mm. So, you know, we were all sort of didn’t, didn’t do well in school. No, I might add, didn’t have time for school, which was kind of interesting. So the, the, the, what I got out of a lot of it was the formal regimented education system that exists to day and was even more in existence when I went through was not something that I was going to bring to the classroom, because I didn’t like it. So, I mean, obviously if I don’t like it, why would they like it? So so that’s sort of the curiosity and a little unconventional teaching mixed up with some curiosity. And that’s, that’s sort of where I ended up where I was on it, but it, but it, but it took years, right. It wasn’t it wasn’t a, all of a sudden I had an epiphany and it, it was trial and error over as we’ve talked about many times, it’s, you know, small, incremental changes over, it took 30 years, right.


Mike Loudfoot (06:24):
To, to develop a, I, I think that probably, if you are trying to make an impact with the kids and enjoy your teaching profession I think it takes five years to learn how to sort of manage a classroom so you can get some teaching done. I think it’s even harder now. I think it takes about five more years to learn the material at some basic level. And then after that, then it’s a constant refinement, right. And by the time you get to 20, 20 years, you’re start to get into the realm of, if you haven’t figured it out and haven’t mastered it, you’re not going to, it probably wasn’t, wasn’t a profession that you should have picked.


Sam Demma (07:06):
So, so what you’re saying is, you know, you, weren’t on the road to Damascus and then got struck by some lightning. Figured it out.


Mike Loudfoot (07:14):
There was no road to Damascus. There was a long fall. And, and it wasn’t, it wasn’t always,uyou know, I’m going to do this. There was times when it was like, what am I, what in the well, world of sports am I doing here? Right. Yeah. Like, this is,uI I’m gonna, I had other options I I’d done. Oh, there’s the other thing I’d done. Lots of other things too. And I think that’s important for teachers that they don’t go. They try not to go directly from teachers college, into teaching. I, I,uI was a, an army officer. UI,uso I had traveled all across Canada. UI had a pilot’s license. UI worked on the railway for three years. I traveled across Canada doing well, Ontario anyway. And,uI owned a farm. I owned several small businesses. So by the time I had got to teaching, I had lots of life experiences that I think,uyou know, helped me understand some of the, where some of the kids were coming from. Cause not every kid’s coming from this same spot. Right.


Sam Demma (08:21):
Yeah. Oh, I like that. And you mentioned that growing up, you know, you didn’t have you and your buddies didn’t have time for school and not so much because you didn’t have the time, but because you didn’t like it. Can you tell me more about, you know, the system that used to exist and the elements of it that still exists now that you think need to be changed?


Mike Loudfoot (08:37):
Yeah. well, the, the issue you, I think to a certain extent is I dunno that the system has, it isn’t as regimented as it was when I was, when I went through it. There’s no doubt about that. I’m not, as you know, I, I, wasn’t a big proponent of showing up on time, as long as you got there. And, you know, if you’re in sort of a uniform and long as you didn’t talk, well, I was trying to teach, I really, you could eat in the classroom. So I wasn’t all concerned about those small things. Whereas when I went to school, those small things where, where where’s as important as the, the topic. But the, I think the, the issue is, is that unfortunately, because of the way the, the EDU the post secondary education system works and the, the, the debt load that the poor kids are under they, they don’t get the full benefit of their education.


Mike Loudfoot (09:43):
They, they have other worries, which, which I didn’t have other worries of. I mean, we were poor, but I got massive OSAP grants. Right. So it was a structural thing. So I didn’t have a, a financial issue you, in terms of, you know, how am I gonna pay off my student debt when I finished, I didn’t have any student debt. So and I think that by not having that student debt, I was able to concentrate on my studies mm-hmm and make myself a better teacher. So when I arrived, I had already a, a good, solid background of the subject matter that I was going to teach, rather than just getting there. And then, well, where’s the textbook, right. And then just teaching out the textbook. I mean, most of the time the textbooks are not correct anyway. And, and if you’re gonna use, that’s gonna be your main teaching mechanism, it’s gonna run, you know, it’s gonna get scaled pretty quick.


Mike Loudfoot (10:41):
So, so that, that, you know, I grew up in a different time period. So it was a different, different way of, of getting to the end point. But so having said that, I mean, what I’m asked, what I’m saying is that you’re, you’re actually going to have to change structural systems in, in the education system to make it so that you don’t leave any child behind. So it doesn’t just become a cliche. Right. Because it’s simply a cliche right now, so, yeah. But got it. I encourage your readers or your readers, your your viewers, if they’re interested in, in alternative method, it’s teaching. If they look up Finland’s method Finland finish contrary to, to, you know, urban legend it isn’t Singapore and, and Hong Kong and Taiwan, and all them end up first in international studies. Sometimes they do, but more often not it’s Finland and it get reported much because of the way the fins set up their education system.


Mike Loudfoot (11:41):
But just to give you an idea of how important it is, they, they don’t degrade their teachers the way our society does. So one of the problems nowadays is like, when I went into teaching, there were teachers that, oh my goodness, that I think back to some of the teachers that, that mentored me, there’s another thing too, you know, I didn’t mention, cause it wasn’t all me that’s for sure. They were just fantastic teachers and and they went into teaching because it was an honorable profession and they could support a middle class family and they weren’t destroyed in the media. And so nowadays it’s in a lot of cases, it becomes a secondary job or a default job. Right. It wasn’t for me. But I think that’s so in Finland teachers you have to have a master’s degree, but they’re, they’re treated like at the same levels as a doctor.


Mike Loudfoot (12:31):
Mm. There’s two teachers in each classroom and then classes are limited to 20. And I mean, I’ve had experience with finished kids. My, my kids played hockey and we had finished kids stay over at our place. And I mean, their, their maturity level compared to my kids are pretty, pretty mature. And the other Canadian hockey kids were, there was no comparison. They, they, and they could speak three or four languages. So, wow. How is it that they can speak three or four languages and know more about the world than our kids do well, that that’s, so that’s where the curiosity comes in. Right. When you see something, you don’t understand something, you say, well, maybe that to be researched. And and so I would encourage them to, to research the, some really good videos on YouTube videos on Phil’s education system.


Sam Demma (13:25):
Well, that’s awesome. Thanks so much for sharing that. I’ll, I’ll definitely drop a link in the show notes of the episode where people can check it out. And now you’ve made me curious to go check it out as well, because I wanna speak for images


Mike Loudfoot (13:35):
Well, I mean, who wouldn’t. Right. So I can’t, but you know, that’s part of spending your, your youth as a Tom Sawyer, H fin and not studying. Right.


Sam Demma (13:45):
Yep. That, that makes sense.


Mike Loudfoot (13:46):
I’ve never met anybody that ever said to me, you know, in, in the, whatever are hundreds or thousands of parent teacher interviews or kids that have returned, not one person has said to me, you know, I wish I had worked less hard in high school. Mm. Not one everyone says, you know, I, I should have, I should have given it a better effort. So yeah. Maybe there’s some truth in that. So


Sam Demma (14:07):
Very true. So,uyou know, you were someone who left a huge impact on people in the same Mary school. And I, I believe there’s still people, like I had someone reach out to me, I think maybe 10, 15 weeks ago saying, Hey, do you have Mike Loudfoot contact information, saw a post. He put on Facebook. I like to reach out to him and, you know, tell him,uhow much he had an impact on me. And it was like a 40 year old man.


Mike Loudfoot (14:34):
Young man, who’s a 40 year old man. He actually came out to the farm. He, we, we had a little nice little chat on the, on the front porch, so that’s awesome. Yeah. And he’s doing fantastic and looked happy and he’s, he’s a teacher in Toronto and yeah, it was a great, so thanks for that. That was a great that was a, a nice little nugget to get through the week. It was, was wonderful to, to, to talk with him.


Sam Demma (14:59):
So that’s so cool. He’s probably, I’m probably aging him. I don’t know if he’s 40, but , he was, he’s getting up there. Yeah.


Mike Loudfoot (15:07):
I, I think he’s, I think he said he was 38, so, okay,


Sam Demma (15:10):
Nice. But yeah, it, it it’s like, it seems like you’ve built throughout your time teaching dozens of really deep relationships. And I’m curious to know what your perspective is on how educators can build deeper relationships in the classroom and how you did it as a teacher as well.


Mike Loudfoot (15:27):
Well one of the things that, that I, I, I did do which I think was, was critical, was I used to sit in on the classes of senior teachers. So what I would do is, so as in all things you know, groups of people talk, right. So I would, I would, I would listen to the kids talk and, and, you know, can’t stand going to that one’s class, or really love that one’s class. Well, the ones that they really loved, I asked permission if I could sit in on their classes. So during if I had a a spare and I, I didn’t have any marking, I did the marking at home or whatever it was, I would go and sit in on their class. So my, my learning curve went, oh, so that’s how you deal with kids. Oh, so that’s how, so it’s a learned behavior, right?


Mike Loudfoot (16:20):
So I’d almo I had basically on my own stumbled into a mentor system. Right. But it was a, it was a real mentor system. So I sat in on, on I can think of three incredible master teachers and and, and, and just sat back and listened to them. I didn’t, I didn’t interfere. I didn’t, you know, I just sat and listened to them and I, and observed how they, they handled their class, how they taught their lessons, how they did this. And, and then afterwards, because I’d shown an interest and there’s the curiosity part. Again, they were, they, they, they would sit down with me and say, well, this is why I did this. And this is why I handled this. And so actually I was getting mentored while I was working. Right. I was doing it on my own accord. I didn’t do it because someone told me to do it.


Mike Loudfoot (17:08):
Right. So I think that had a huge impact on, on how you, yeah. You know, you know, someone’s got 25 years experience in, or, you know, getting close to 30, cuz these people were towards the end of their careers. And I had five years and well, what’s there not to learn. Right. I mean, you, I remember one guy was just incredible. And some of your, some of your yours would know Mr. Fo Jim fo. And I learned so much from him sitting in on his class. And and there was another thing too, is, was the system was a different system too, in the sense that he was a department head and, and he had an administrative spare. So he would actually go around to to your class if you asked him to and sit in on your class and evaluate you, but not, not as a, you know, not as a punishment, but as a you asked and I’m gonna try and help you along here.


Mike Loudfoot (18:14):
So I think those, I think those things really, really helped me develop a rapport. I call it a withitness you, you just tag go luck had it, right. You Ian go luck. He had, you knew the teachers that had it, you would go into their classroom. I, I, I mean, I, I went into go luck’s classroom a couple times or more than a couple times. And I’d just sit in the back and listen to em, because it was a pleasure to listen to, right. There was something learned, being learned there and you would go and, you know, you know, you’d go into other classes and I mean, teachers are like, anything else. There’s good doctors and bad doctors. There’s good, real estate agents and bad real estate agents. They’re all, all the same. And you’d go into other classrooms. And you could tell that there wasn’t a lot of learning taking place there. Right. So, and there was no curiosity. They were just going through the motions of learning. Well, I didn’t wanna be like that. That’s all that makes a really long day. My, my days just flew by like, yeah, yeah. The day, just once, once your feet hit the ground, you were running to the end and it was a good day.


Sam Demma (19:24):
So, you know, speaking of being curious, not only were you curious in the material and curious, and because me a better teacher, but I think you showed equal amounts of curiosity towards the kids that are in your class and how that showed up. How I remember it as one of your students was like, you would teach a lesson and then you would stop at the end and say, Hey, kaon because you wanna be a fashion designer. This, this lesson for you means X and Hey Sam, because you’re an athlete, this for you could mean X and you would kinda like take the material and personalize it to the students. I’m curious to know more about that. And, and when did you start doing that in your teaching practice and, and why?


Mike Loudfoot (20:03):
Well, again, I, I noticed it with the peer teachers that I had. Right. That that’s the way they operated. Yeah, you, you have to, you have to know your audience in the same way. When, when you do presentations, right. You’re doing presentations to an elementary school. You can’t do the same methodology as you’re going to do to a business group. If you’re doing it to a business group, right. One size doesn’t fit all. And the other thing that I learned probably, oh, I don’t know, about 10 years in. I don’t remember exactly, but anyway, I was teaching history and I had, I had some black kids in the class and some Filipino kids in class and afterwards they said, is there any, any other history besides white history? And I said what are you talking about? And they said, well, there’s gotta be more history than just white history.


Mike Loudfoot (21:00):
Cause this doesn’t speak to me at all. Yeah. Kind of ticked off, you know, I had really thrown lot into this and I went home. I started thinking about it and the more I thought more, I thought, you know what, they’re right. So it’s not a white world. Sorry, tell you that. It’s run by white people currently in a lot of places, but it’s not a white world. And so there, there is a massive, so that, that was the, that was the, so it’s the questions that get asked. Well, what does that kid mean? That, that it’s you know, this, this, history’s not speaking to me, what does that mean? Well, maybe you better look into it Loudfoot. So I did, I started looking into it and, and, and I don’t that you remember, but, you know, I, I taught you know, if it was a Filipino class, if there’s a lot of Filipino kids in there, I taught Spanish American, the warns, you know, the Spanish American war the Philippines, if there was black kids, there’s a lot of black or some black kids in the class didn’t even whether it was one.


Mike Loudfoot (22:10):
Yep. You know, you gotta hit that kid. So, you know, I, I spent you know, I don’t really, whether you remember, but you know the abolishment of slavery and William yeah. William Wilberforce, and then you bring it right up to date cuz it’s, you know, that’s in the past. And then, you know, there was a great documentary called slavery by another name. Right. Which brings you sort of up to where we are now. And that’s all you can do. You can just sort of, you’re like a farmer you’re sort of throwing the feed out and the ones that want to eat will eat and you try and make the feed as tasty as possible. And the ones that don’t well is just not their to, so, so you have to you have to know your audience and and that, that was one of the great things about teaching at St.


Mike Loudfoot (22:58):
Mary, was it wasn’t you know, it wasn’t a white, only school and it, well, it, it was in terms of most of the curriculum, but there was, there was to expand that curriculum. And so I tried right. For, for the limited abilities that I had. I, I don’t believe in boutique liberalism. I’ll give you a perfect example. So, you know, the other day they had the truth in reconciliation commission or the day, right. Which is fantastic. I, that’s not the boutique liberalism and everybody’s to wear orange. Well, all that’s going on. The federal, government’s still trying to block, you know, payments to Aboriginal children that were abuse under the foster care system. I, I mean, I don’t even know how you, you can even go in front of a, a microphone and say tomorrow is the truth and reconciliation day. And then this thing is in the news.


Mike Loudfoot (24:02):
Yeah. It’s again, it’s boutique liberalism where I’m looking through the window and, and nothing’s really getting done. So I, I think that, that, so to that end one of the things I really tried to concentrate on in my own learning was learning, learning economics. And because without learning, without the a foundation of economics, you’re not gonna cause much change in the sense of, of like structural change. I mean, you cause small incremental changes, which are important, but if you want massive change to happen, you have to get, you have to have an informed population and, and, you know, simple things like, you know, just questions, like where does money come from? Right. How does debt work? Right. And so and then there’s, so if you just took the question of debt, for example, you know, how does debt, because that’s the big concern about everybody nowadays, student debt, like student debt’s off the charts, it it’s ridiculous.


Mike Loudfoot (24:59):
And you know, so how do, how do places like Germany and Sweden and Switzerland, Hey, you don’t have pay anything except there’s a small registration fee and here what they’re making kids pay and the states seem worse. So the question then becomes what’s debt. And you know, what is, what is money well that in order to answer that you have to awful lot of research. So that’s the, so the curiosity kicks in and then you have to prepare yourself, prepare your own back. And then when she prepare your own background, by doing your own research, then you have to figure out a methodology to impart that information to the students so that it becomes meaningful. Right. So, and then what should happen is, and this is the other thing where the society drops, the ball is, is the there’s no mentorship. So because it, because all systems that exist are only concerned about self maintenance that are concerned about making the system necessarily better.


Mike Loudfoot (25:59):
So like, like the Senate or, you know, the last election that we had, right. Doesn’t matter really who you vote for. It’s, I’ll just give you concept, just so like, I, I get a lot of people cuz I’m retired now and I have time to talk to ’em and they drop by to buy, you know, wood or whatever. And they’re their, their main concern is always money in debt. So, and I, I always say to them, there’s lots of money and they, they look at me like, what are you talking about? Right. And I said, and I tell them, but the problem is, is that it’s out of contact. It takes a long time to build up to the, so they understand ring I’m,


Mike Loudfoot (26:44):
You know, they’re prob they’ll probably call back. But anyway so like for example, the, so the debts, you know, the, the federal debts about 700 billion. So that’s from the beginning of time, right? From 1867 till now. Well the banks just banks by themselves, the top five, they have like almost 7 trillion assets. Yeah. There’s no money. All kinds of money. Yeah. Right. So to put that in perspective, you have 700 billion in debt, total debt, historically in federal government and you got 7,000 billion in assets yeah. So I think we could probably fix it if we wanted to, but in order to understand that you have to have an informed population. Right. So, so think little things like that. Cool.


Sam Demma (27:41):
And you know, I think you’re also a teacher that believed I don’t wanna say, do overs all the time, but I remember there was even essays that I handed in as a student where, you know, you would hand them out to the class and at the top it would say like, come to my desk or you put like a circle of like, talk to me, like I brought my essay over and you’re like, Sam, I think this is great, but I think you can do better. You know, wanna try, add a couple things here, there, and, and then come submit it to me again. Like, you’re you like, you know, where did that philosophy come from? And I think it helped me learn more as a student personally, but I’m curious to know where, where that started from for you and why you implemented that in your classes. Yeah.


Mike Loudfoot (28:21):
Well, most of the time when you, if the teacher doesn’t take an interest in what the student’s doing at some level, the student, certainly isn’t now just think about it just for a second. I’m making you generally well, in some courses you had, there was a prescribed essay format that you’d do, but mine, I sort of laughed it up to you what you wanted to do. So that was that’s. The first thing is the, the student should be able to pick generally with, within a certain parameters, something that they’re interested in. So again, if you’re interested in fashion, you should look at maybe the world fashion industry, right? So that something that you’re, you’re gonna do down the road, but so first off, if, if you make the, you, you allow the student to, to become interested by allowing them to pick generally their own topic, but it’s not without guardrails because when you’re 17 years old, you’re, you’re not very well informed.


Mike Loudfoot (29:22):
So that’s where an older person’s supposed to help you along. And that’s where, that’s what it, that’s what it is. An older person helps you along. Right? And so the older people in the school helped me along. So why shouldn’t I return the favor as we, as we walk through this lesson together, as we walk through this course together, right? We’re on this course, I’m not gonna use the word journey, cuz it just, that gets weird, but we’re on this course to try and arrive at some sort of understanding of the world that we live in. Right. So if I’m not interested in helping you in that journey, because language is extremely important and words are extremely important. I mean, we’re getting a lot of Orwellian language now in, in things that you know, where they, they twist the words to mean something else. Right?


Mike Loudfoot (30:18):
So if you’re not well versed in language and, and it try terms of language also, so language and writing go hand in hand, if you’re not good at that, there’s a lot of pitfalls. Forget the essay. There’s a lot of pitfalls that are going to trap you later on in life because you didn’t work your way through it. You were fooled by the profit G. That was, that was generated for you. Right? I mean, so take the, take the, the American pullout in Afghanistan, for example, look at the language, that’s surrounds that right about how many Americans lost their lives and how much money they spent. Very little knowledge and very little language about how many Afghans lost their lives. Yeah. And, and how many Afghan women lost their lives. If we’re talking about that and, and correspondingly, if we’re going to talk about Afghan women in the rights of Afghan women, what about the rights of American women?


Mike Loudfoot (31:30):
Right. So, you know, the, there, whether you’re four or against abortion that needs to be looked into, right. And, and the other thing that, that needs to be looked into, which isn’t as politicized is how on women in the United States are still only making 70 cents for every dollar and a man makes. Mm. So if we’re gonna start talking about those sorts of things, you need a very broad understanding of language and writing and, and all those things that go along with us. So it’s extremely important and tool, it’s a life tool that, you know, you carry through, you free the rest of your life. So, so that’s why I spent so much time on, on language. Right? Cause that’s the problem with another problem with our society is that because,uwe commodify everything. Everything has a, a financial attachment to it. We don’t value things that, you know, that, that we used to like music and art and, and literature.


Mike Loudfoot (32:35):
So well, how’s it going to make me any, any money? Well, when you, when you talk like that, as Cornell West said, you know, I don’t even know anything about Cornell west, but if you ever get a chance to listen to him again and shout out for Cornell west he said, well, what do we do? Well, rich kids get taught and everybody else gets tested. Mm. Right. So that’s sort of where we’re at now. So rich kids, the 1%, the 10%, whatever you want to slice it, they get taught to, to recreate the system and use the same language that their fathers and their mothers used and the rest of us get tested. So right. You get standardized tests. So we don’t learn how the system works. And so, and it’s not a difficult system to understand once you start to investigate it, but it takes an awful lot of work to, to begin that process.


Sam Demma (33:30):
Mm. Yeah. It makes sense. It makes a lot of sense. And, you know, I remember even the format of your class and the format of your teaching was very much geared towards writing and language because we would come into the classroom, you know, you would stand up, make some funny banjo noises.


Mike Loudfoot (33:50):
Yeah. We’re gonna, we’re gonna edit that out. You know? Yeah. They may wanna look up the movie deliverance, but anyway,


Sam Demma (33:58):
Okay. You know, you, you crack the couple of jokes and then, you know, without hesitation, you would jump into lecture and you would spend that hour, hour, 20 minutes. I can’t remember how long the classes even were, but you would just spend the time talking and teaching and like, you know, lecturing on a certain part of history. And the whole time you would just say, take notes. And like, you know, the whole, the whole class would fly by. I’d have like four pages of notes written. My hand was hurting and I was like, holy cow, there’s just so much writing. And I think it was the thickest binder I had in high school, but it was filled all with interesting things that made me very curious about history that made me wanna read more books and learn more about what you spoke of. And I’ll never forget the first day of class when you know, you, I think you literally said to everyone, I don’t want you to believe anything. I tell you if something makes you curious, you know, go by yourself and, you know, verify the facts. And yeah. I can see how you play such a big emphasis on writing and, and reading. And it rubbed off on me now. I love reading and I read books all the time and I think it rubbed off on a, a lot of other young people. How do we encourage those skills in youth? Is it through the way we teach or,


Mike Loudfoot (35:06):
Well, you’re doing it right now. Right? So now it’s it’s everybody’s job to, to, to do that. And and so the more people that we have encouraging other people to do that, then, then good things happen. We can’t depend on, on institutions to do things the way, the way things change are institutions are maintaining at best. That’s all they do. The way we change things is, is by you doing what you’re doing right now. So how many people will listen to this and say, you know, maybe I should find a book that I’m interested. It doesn’t even have to be a book nowadays. There’s so many books on YouTube and audio that you can just listen to stories. I mean, you can have it in the background while you’re doing something else. So this is the, this is the, the, you know, the paradox, the irony of our times is we have all this information available to us and, and, and our society’s getting it is getting more polarized and, and poor because we are not, we’re, we’re being distracted by the, by the, you know, the electric, like I used to say the electronic pollution hallucinations that are in front of us.


Mike Loudfoot (36:28):
Right. Mm-hmm, , you know, you look up things that are kind of important, like, you know, the debt ceiling or something like that. Cause the Americans are, you know, to find out about it is, and the views got, you know, I’m making this up cause it’s 700 views. And then you look out dog chasing its own tail. It’s got 7 million views. Yeah. I mean, and, and, and I, I like being entertained. Right. I, I enjoy a good joke and all that, but that shouldn’t be your go to, right. That should be something that you do as a, as a minor distraction to, you know, to, to, to bring some, some, some I don’t know, some levity to the situation. Right. But that’s, that’s where we’re at is, is we, we, we don’t incur, I mean, kids can’t even write cursive anymore. Not, not that maybe they need to, I don’t know.


Mike Loudfoot (37:26):
Maybe the technology is, is enough now that you can type, but there needs to be, I know there’s, there’s, there’s book clubs and things, but I libraries are struggling. Right. It’s maybe we’re moving into another zeitgeist. Right. But, and if we are, then, then we’re going to have to find out another way of, of getting through to the next generation so that they don’t become even more captivated by, I call this techno futilism that the, I think that’s where we’re moving to now where everything is, is essentially owned by somebody else. So this, this space that we’re in right now is owned by somebody. So it’s, it’s, we’re renting it. I think when you, I sit on the porch sometimes, and I think about my own kids who, you know, they don’t own a house, they don’t own a car. They, they have student debt.


Mike Loudfoot (38:30):
What we’ve done is the futilism part is, is the renting part, right? So the techno futilism is the, is the technology that, that they’re using to monitor us, to make money off of us, to influence our choices. That’s the techno part. And then the futilism part is simply a Ranier society where everybody’s renting everything. So just like futilism, you didn’t really own anything. You, you, you lived and you rented on the landowners estate, your crops, you worked for ’em, you, you know, you, you had to ask permission to go anywhere. I think that’s where we’re sort of at, if you think about your peer group for a second, and I don’t know your, your peer group, but do they own their own car? Do they lease it?


Sam Demma (39:16):
Most lease.


Mike Loudfoot (39:17):
Yeah. And in order to drive it, you have to have in insurance. Yep. Right. Well, that’s another rent, right. And if you do own a house, then you have to pay,uyou know, a mortgage that’s another rent. And then the insurance on the house is another rent. And if you rent a house, will obviously that’s a rent and your phone is rented and your internet connection is rented. So what actually do you actually own? Right. So those are sorts of questions that as thinking, you know, citizens, we, we need to ask ourselves, is this the direction that we want society to go in? Right. But again, that’s,uthose are structural changes that are, that require massive amounts of work to change. So, so I don’t have the answer to it, but I am aware of it, but


Sam Demma (40:07):
Yeah, that’s the first step, right. Consciousness. Yeah. Aware of it. There’s no conversation at all.


Mike Loudfoot (40:11):
Oh, well, and you have to have a background to have a conversation, right? Yeah. At some, or at least a curiosity to ask a question or two, so yeah. Yeah. So, and that’s, the other thing is too always ask lots of questions. So, so as a teacher, as a person, just, you know sometimes it’s best not to talk so much about yourself, but ask a lot of questions, the other person. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. I was, I always asked you guys questions about what you were gonna do, you know, what you were gonna do in your life and what was happening and yeah. Cause you should be interested in other human beings. That’s right.


Sam Demma (40:49):
Hopefully you are, especially as an educator.


Mike Loudfoot (40:54):
Yeah. Well,


Sam Demma (40:57):
If you could go back you taught for 31 years, you said.


Mike Loudfoot (41:01):
Yeah. Well, I, I, I taught for 30 years and then I student taught for one year. So nice.


Sam Demma (41:08):
So if you could go back, you know, travel back in time and walk into your first class, you know, what advice would you give your younger educator self?


Mike Loudfoot (41:19):
Oh, well I was a disaster my first year. Like, it was, you know, so well, first off,uwell the problem with first year teachers is,uthey’re all they’re doing is trying to keep their head above water. Yeah. I, it was you you’re working, I don’t know, 60 hours a week just to keep ahead of the kids. You’re exhausted. So I think that’s where the finished model would come into play. So they have two teachers in each classroom. And so you paired with a senior teacher, so they would help you, you know, your learning curve would go through the roof. Right. And you’re limited, they limit their classes to 40 kids to 40 that’s our system to 20 kids. Right. So there’s no, no classes are bigger than 20 kids. So you have 20 kids, two highly qualified teachers. And then,uthey have a support staff too, so yeah.


Mike Loudfoot (42:19):
Yeah. So that’s what I would, my stupid phones going off again. Okay. So the, I, I don’t know what you do for your first year, your first year is simply right. You don’t have time to do to do anything, so it just survive and then learn some things. And then, and, and then in the summertime, when you, when you get a breath, then sit back and try. And there’s the other thing too, is we had time in June, you years ago to, I used to redo all my lessons. Mm. It didn’t work. So I kept a chart of my lessons, which one? Yeah. I even did that from the first year. That was probably because of, I was in the military, but I would keep a chart and say, well, that was a disaster. And I would write down in my, my daily teaching book, I’d write down.


Mike Loudfoot (43:12):
That was a disaster you’re you? You’re an idiot or whatever. Right. It’s just, what were you thinking? Right. and,uso that we’re gonna change that lesson for sure. So I think it’s just time in, it’s just,utime in, and you, you have to change the structure so nice because, because yeah, it is your first year teaching, but it’s one of the, is that group of kids whole chunk of time for learning, you can’t just wing it. Right. Just because you’re new, what are you new? Uyou, you know, you you’re basically sacrificing those kids cause it’s a first year teacher. Right. So that could be fixed by, by implementing that, that mentor system, but that would cost more money. So we’re back to that, but there’s lots, again, there’s lots of money. It’s just that, you know,uare you gonna have a who who’s going, who’s going to, who’s gonna control the economic prosperity. Is it going to be,uthe risk rich that control it? Or is it going to be the citizens that control it? Well, I think it should be the citizens, but I know that’s crazy talk.


Sam Demma (44:27):
I feel like I’m, I feel like I’m back in your class. Yeah.


Mike Loudfoot (44:30):
I’m not, I haven’t changed that much. I’ve gotten older looking, but I, you know, I’m still what I am.


Sam Demma (44:35):
When, when you ran over there to turn off your phone, the first time, just outta curiosity, is that phone, is that phone with a cord stuck to the wall?


Mike Loudfoot (44:42):
Well, I have two phones, so the first one was the landline and and the other one was my cell phone that went off. Nice.


Sam Demma (44:50):
That’s funny. Awesome. That’s funny. Yeah.


Mike Loudfoot (44:54):
Well the landline, right? So when everything goes bad, I still got landline. , That’s awesome.


Sam Demma (45:01):
Mike, if, if an educator’s listening and, you know, feels inspired by this at all, or curious, and might have a question for you, if you do have the time, what would be the best way for them to reach out and shoot you a question?


Mike Loudfoot (45:12):
Slap down a hundred dollars. No thank you. Get one in, had to get one in before the end. Um, they can contact me at mikeloudfoot@hotmail.com. And, I don’t mind having to chat.


Sam Demma (45:34):
Awesome. All right, Mike, thank you so much for taking some time to chat on the show and share some of your experience and philosophies really appreciate it. Keep up the great work in retirement and if it’s if it’s even if you can even call it that and yeah. Well, we’ll, we’ll talk soon.


Mike Loudfoot (45:52):
Thanks Sam. Thanks for having me and, and God bless.


Sam Demma (45:55):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of this show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Mike

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 17, 2021 by Student Success Teachers 1

Tracey Klinkhammer – Management Co-op at The University of Toronto Scarborough Campus

Tracey Klinkhammer - Management Co-op at The University of Toronto Scarborough Campus
About Tracey Klinkhammer

Inspiring students to succeed is what Tracey Klinkhammer aspires to in her role at the University of Toronto Scarborough’s Management Co-op Department. With a focus on helping students turn their abilities into exciting possibilities, Tracey leverages her diverse experience in sales, human resources and education to really partner with the students in the program to support their goals.

Starting with an engineering degree and completing an MBA with a co-op she knows firsthand the impact of integrated learning. She recognizes through her own journey how there are many pathways to get to where you want to go. Tracey believes in making a difference one student at a time.

Connect with Tracey: Email | Website | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

The Dream Machine Tour

Alex Banayan: The Third Door (book)

Charlie Rocket

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Tracey Klinkhammer. Inspiring students to succeed is what Tracey aspires to do in her role at the University of Toronto Scarborough’s management co-op department with a focus on helping students turn their abilities into exciting possibilities. Tracey leverages her diverse experience in sales, human resources and education to really partner with the students in the programs to support their goals. Starting with an engineering degree and completing an MBA with a co-op, she knows firsthand the impact of integrated learning. She recognizes through her own journey, how there are many pathways to get to where you want to go. And Tracey believes in making a difference one student at a time.


Sam Demma (01:25):
This is a very refreshing and awesome human to human conversation, and I hope you enjoy it and take something valuable away from it. I will see you on the other side. Tracey, thank you so much for coming on the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit behind the reason why you got into education?


Tracey Klinkhammer (01:49):
Well, thank you first for having me, Sam, I’m super excited to be here. This is very fun for me. So it’s a long story. I’ll try to keep it short, but it starts with my own passion for learning. I think I was one of those kids in school couldn’t get enough. And I had really great teachers that fed that passion. And so I was always getting pulled into, you know, extra projects and so going into high school, I think I realized how much I benefited from people investing in me. And then I started getting into peer tutoring, which led me to realize I loved teaching. I loved helping. I loved seeing my friends progress past their math tests and I was really interested in being a math teacher. But at that time when I was applying to universities, my father sort of gave me the choice of taking a math degree at my local university, which is a great university or fleeing the nest.


Tracey Klinkhammer (02:40):
And I could go anywhere in Canada if I took engineering. And so that was a very it was an easy decision for me. And so he said it wouldn’t close any doors and it was, it’s a great degree. Engineering’s a great degree. Mm. But I didn’t wanna be an engineer, taught me a lot about problem solving and so on. And every year my dad would say, do you, how’s it going? No, I don’t wanna be an engineer. So the only door it did close though, was teachers college. Funny enough so I had to figure out, okay, so I can’t get into teachers college. What can I do? So I did what we did back then before phones and surfing, I turned to the smartest girl in my class and I said, what’s your plan? And she talked about doing her MBA and talked all about this thing called co-op, which I didn’t know about co-op at that time.


Tracey Klinkhammer (03:25):
And so, you know, walked over to the payphone. That’s dating myself and says people probably like payphone, who is those? And then I booked an interview and, and did my GMAT and got into the MBA program. Mm. So I, I didn’t quite get into formal education until five years ago when I did join U oft. Nice. But what I realized as I became an HR professional and I took some time off and did some training on the side, I realized I was always about people enablement. And so even, you know, if you, about what education is, it’s really about giving students the tools they need to be successful. And I took that mindset with my HR jobs. And then finally this opportunity because I ran recruitment programs across the country and I was in talent acquisition. And I, I realized the value of co-op. So then I brought people in and I started partnering with the ship Toronto Scarborough and realized it is an amazing program, amazing students, amazing people. And so for three years, I basically saw the value of co-op as we brought on students and then eventually transitioned to being part of their team. So that was a long story, but I’m currently at the university of Toronto and, and I work in the business program supporting students who are in co-op.


Sam Demma (04:45):
What, what prompted you to make the jump from HR job to UFT? Like, was there a defining moment in your story that you thought it’s time for me to move on from this? Or why did you decide to switch?


Tracey Klinkhammer (04:57):
I think I just got to a point in my career and I think this is a really important thing they always talk about with students. I think sometimes there’s a pressure to feel this, you know, what success looks like and to sort of follow a certain pathway and the pathway tends to be vertical. And so a lot of students, you know, when they look at definitions of success and they look at creating pathways for themselves and modeling, you know, other people, what they tend to see as vertical progression. And I think I just got to a point in my career where I, I really stopped and thought, you know, what’s really important to me. Why am I in this job? What do I wanna get out of working? And and the answer was really about making a difference. And so not that I, in my other job, I, I loved my job.


Tracey Klinkhammer (05:40):
I, I wanna say, you know, I loved working for the cup that I worked at. I just thought that I had a chance to really affect change one student at a time by, by getting into a university setting. So, and it really did feel full circle. It really did feel finely, you know, after all these years getting into a formal education setting, which I had talked about wanting to do when I was in high school. Mm-Hmm . And so it, what I didn’t also tell you is I did sales in between there too. So, you know, sales…


Sam Demma (06:09):
What did you sell?


Tracey Klinkhammer (06:10):
I, I sold, but don’t tell anybody I called my grandma. I like, oh my grandma. I said, grandma, I got my first job. And so, yes, I’m still in drugs. I worked for AstraZeneca, so, oh, wow. I did. And so I brought on because I couldn’t get an HR job because I didn’t have the experience. And so someone said, well, get a sales job, understand the products, understand the people. And then you’ll be able to support them in that HR function. But at the time that I got into and sales taught me a lot about, it’s funny, all my jobs gave me bits and pieces. That helped me be a good advisor, cuz that’s basically what my role is. It’s kind of advising. So sales taught me about listening and the importance of really understanding need and really, you know, under taking the time to gather requirements and really understand, you know, pain points and how you can really help someone through that. So I actually think sales experience hands down for anybody is a great fundamental experience. I think everybody should do sales at one point in their life.


Sam Demma (07:10):
Yeah, I agree. I agree. I have, I have a coach.


Tracey Klinkhammer (07:13):
Right?


Sam Demma (07:15):
so I have a coach and a mentor who spent half of his life selling surgical equipment and he is now a speaker and he’s been speaking for 25 years and he teaches me everything. He knows about sales and like that’s one of the most important things, but he helps shift my mindset from, you know, thinking about sales as selling to serving, like you’re mentioning about understanding people really on a deep level and what they actually need. And if you are, are the person to help them. And it’s, it’s so true. It’s, it’s so true. It’s funny that you mentioned that now it’s come full circle as you got into a classroom, because you mentioned that you were a student who always wanted more mm-hmm and it seems like your daughter is too, because you’re in her bedroom and behind you on the wall is a chalkboard . Yeah. Which is like that’s so cool. Like having a chalkboard in your bedroom. That’s amazing. What do you think led to you being that student that always wanted more? Did you have people in your life who stressed the importance of education? Was there teachers who played a fundamental role in your life?


Tracey Klinkhammer (08:12):
I think it was to be really honest. I think it was my parents. Yeah. particularly my mom, she didn’t have our access to higher ed. Okay. And I think, you know, growing up with her circumstance, I think she realized she, my parents are phenomenal have given me like their, you know, amazing role models. But I think for my parents, it was like when you go to university, not if it was always higher, ed was always part of our conversation. Now, funny enough, they never actually pressured me. It all came from me. I, I really drove myself. My parents were not those hovering parents. They never helped me with my, like, this is not a bad thing. This is a good thing. They didn’t help me with my homework. They didn’t check up on me. I was really motivated to, you know, manage my work, ask for more.


Tracey Klinkhammer (08:58):
They, they looked for opportunities and supported those opportunities when they came up and when, you know, teachers approached them and they were so supportive, but it really did come from me. And I, I think it was those teachers that took the time. Cuz now that I’m on the other side of it, I realized that the E easier thing for them to do, would’ve just been to do the basics mm-hmm . And I think about, you know, my grade six teacher going up, she knew I love language and she would create these special, extra you know, study guides for, you know, crazy words and how to use them. And I love that stuff. And I look back now and I think, oh my gosh, she did that all in our own time. And that’s, that was really early on. And even in grade one and two, I was taken out with seven other students and we stayed with the grade one class in grade two and we worked on special projects.


Tracey Klinkhammer (09:46):
And again, they were really that would’ve been like the easier thing to do. Would’ve just been to let us all kind of go with our cohort, but they kept us separate. And so early on I realized, you know, if you sort of demonstrate and, and show that passion, that you really can find people in your life that wanna feed that. And so definitely teachers have a, a big role to, to play in that. So, and in high school too, same, I could go there’s a lot, you know, that that’s that I realized. And I don’t, that’s what I don’t think people like, I always tell my kids cuz they’re in high school and one of them’s in grade eight and I always go back to those teachers that made a difference cuz I know the difference they’ve made cuz my, my kids are talking about them and I thought you have no idea how transformative your experience in the classroom was for my kid. And so I’ve really tried to instill in my children and for anybody that’s listening, you know, it’s a great thing to do. Gratitude is huge. It’s a really, it’s an easy gift to give it’s free and it’s a, a great way to give back. Now I feel like I have to go back and call my grade six teacher I feel like I have to go back and tell my grade one grade, two teachers. You know, thank you. Thank you.


Sam Demma (10:53):
Well, I appreciate you sharing that because you know the educators that are listening to us right now, it’s also a reminder to them to note that sometimes students don’t tell you these things. No that you’re, you know, you could be making a huge difference, but not hear about it for 30 years. And no it’s important to, to understand that that doesn’t mean you’re not making an impact. The impact is still there. It just might take a while for you to see the F roots of it. Or you may never see it, but know it exists. And I just think that’s important to stress as well, because you know, you know, maybe the student didn’t have someone like yourself telling them, you know, be grateful and tell your teachers, you appreciate them, but the students really do. And I I’m sure you even see that in your role at U F T you know, like I’m, I’m sure when you give advice to students you, you help help them find the answers to questions that they have not by telling them what to do, but by helping them explore themselves, I’m sure they’re super grateful.


Sam Demma (11:47):
Do you have any stories of, of students at UTSC that, that you know, you keep, you keep in the forefront of your mind maybe when you’re feeling a little down or you know, a little beaten up?


Tracey Klinkhammer (11:57):
Well, this has been a rough year. I will tell you this year has made, you know, has been made better. I work. This is one of the best programs in the country. Yeah. I am so proud to work at U oft and I love the students that I work with and they’re their teachers. I’m always learning from them. And for me, I don’t do it for the gratitude truthfully, like that’s, that’s a bonus. And what, what really moves me is when I actually see them achieve their goal mm-hmm and help them figure out what that is like, what you were talking about. It’s really unlocking their pathways. I think every young person when they’re sort of embarking, and this is the time of year now where students are ex accepting their college and university applications and thinking about what’s next for them. And I always think it’s really important to understand how fluid those, those goals can be.


Tracey Klinkhammer (12:45):
And, you know, helping a student understand through reflection and through their own growth and learning, you know, to really tie into what’s important to them and understand, and it can change along the way. So the best part of my job is being with the students. That’s what I love about working with the business program, cuz I’m with them from the beginning to when they graduate. And that change is so amazing. Cuz some students come, they have a plan, they execute on the plan. That’s great. They graduate. And that all went to plan. There are some people who had a plan and the plan is not what they I’m sure I can see you. Right? Yeah. I think more students feel like you do Sam, but that’s not how I thought my plan was gonna go. Yeah. And so that’s a really cool thing to be a part of too, because then I, you know, then I’m more, that’s back to the consulting thing and the advising, which is about listening and themselves reflect and figure it out.


Tracey Klinkhammer (13:36):
And cuz I think they ultimately know where they wanna go. It’s having the confidence and the, the belief in themselves to do it, especially when they’ve experienced some failure because news, flash, you know, everybody at some point we have a lot of great students and I always tell them it’s for, for a lot of students, they real, haven’t experienced a lot of failure in their life and that first experience can be really painful. And and there’s a number of ways students react to it. I think they, this is gonna sound weird, but I think it’s such a great thing. I think it’s such a great teacher. And resiliency is one of the most important things. I think a young person can learn and help successful through their, their time.


Sam Demma (14:18):
So a student comes to the office, crying that they failed something like how do you, how do you deal with that? Like what kind of, I guess what kind of, what kind of questions would you ask to help them find their own answers?


Tracey Klinkhammer (14:30):
Well, I, I think first it’s starting with kind of empathy and compassion, right? Yeah. Like acknowledging the feelings. And I think that’s the thing, I’m a super positive person, but I think the students have come to realize that I’m good with all the emotions. You know, your, your university college life is gonna take you through a wide range of experiences. Some of them are gonna be really positive. Sadly, I’ve been with students that have experienced tremendous loss. And that, that, that comes in all sorts of different experiences and that’s hard. Cuz you’re seeing student experience that. And I think for me it’s more about understanding where they are in that moment and what they need in that moment. And then, you know, I work at a school world, it’s got lots of great resources to help support students depending on, you know, what’s happening. But I think the big one is just kind of being with them and saying, I’m sorry, and I hear you and not trying to problem solve.


Sam Demma (15:24):
Sometimes people just go straight to the questions.


Tracey Klinkhammer (15:26):
Yeah. I don’t sort of whip out my checklist and you know because everybody’s different. And also when I have a relationship with the student, when I’ve known them for a few years, you can really tell if someone’s, you know, kind of the majority of your interactions have been a certain way. And then you see this change, you realize this is an important moment and I try to make space and time. And I think the biggest thing and the most challenging thing is being really present because obviously I have a family we’re in the middle of a pandemic. I think I, I think to really be effective in education, I think you have to really focus on how are you really present with that student in that moment? So they know that you ha you’re, they’re heard and that they’re supported. Does that make sense?


Sam Demma (16:08):
Yeah, of course. It’s, you know, it’s letting them speak what they have to speak and, and understanding what their situation is and almost being like a best friend, like, right. Like that’s what it kind of sounds like at the end of the day.


Tracey Klinkhammer (16:22):
No, I like to draw some boundaries, you know, of course yeah. Like I’m a nine to five here to there. Yeah. And you know, they’ve got lots of friends. I think what I am though is I think I am someone, you know, given my experience, given my role, I am someone where they know that they they’re not alone, that they can that. So there is a place to sort of help cuz you know, whether it’s related to job seeking or academic performance or maybe there’s something personally in their life, knowing who to reach out to things are gonna happen in your life. And I think what I want the ’em to know is I can’t solve your problems, but I can definitely be here to support you and connect you with the people that can like I’m not a counselor. Yeah. I’m not a, you know, like I, we, we have these great people that help support and I’m as much as I’m obviously friendly with them, we have lots of laughs and we’re fun, but there is there is that I think it’s about trust. I think what you’re getting to, when you talk about is, you know, they get to a point, I think they, they really know that I care and when someone cares, you’re more apt to share and build trust with that. So that’s what I try to do. I try to show I lead with caring. That’s kind of hopefully that’s how they perceive it, but yeah.


Sam Demma (17:32):
Cool. Yeah. I love that makes a lot of sense. Yeah. I was getting at the idea that like, they feel like you’re a friend, not that they’re talking to you like 24 or seven or anything, but you know, like they’re


Tracey Klinkhammer (17:42):
Not hitting me up on you know, not, not texting each other, like, you know yeah. Boundaries, Sam boundaries…


Sam Demma (17:49):
Right. yeah, it makes, it makes total sense. And you know, what types of challenges are you faced with this year? I know it’s different, it’s very different. So like what does it look like? How have things changed?


Tracey Klinkhammer (18:01):
Well, let me ask you that. How are you, what kind of challenges are you?


Sam Demma (18:04):
Well I mean, I almost quit speaking back in may. And that’s when I met this guy who became my coach named Chris. Like I, it’s funny, it followed the whole classical heroes journey. I went on an adventure and COVID hit and then I found a mentor and his name was Chris. And then I had trials and tribulations and I almost quit and here we are now, but at, it was, it was terrible. I didn’t know what I was doing. I didn’t know if I could keep doing this. Then he started shifting my belief system to understand that this could also be the greatest opportunity because people need this sort of inspiration and motivation and just positivity now more than ever.


Tracey Klinkhammer (18:46):
Chris. I like it. I like Chris. He has a good attitude about he’s cool. So it’s the same thing. I think we’ve all had to pivot. I, you know, what I hear from you Sam is that you were thrown a huge curve ball, which basically the pandemic has for everyone, like for our students, for our staff, you know, I work with a really great team and we’re used to working with each other and seeing each other on campus. I miss them. I feel, you know, it’s isolating working in my basement is not my favourite. Sam, it’s cold down there. I had to buy warm socks and like I got a heated blanket for my birthday or for. But you know, and I miss that I think what I miss the most and what I find the most challenging is how organic everything was, all those connections with students and, you know, being on campus think students sort of, you know, available to pop in and, you know, I work in the business building, so you’d see them when you’re walking around the building, there was so much information that was exchanged that I was a lot better able to sort of keep up with what was going on here, information.


Tracey Klinkhammer (19:47):
And I think the, the, the biggest challenge has been how intentionally need to be when you’re online. And I miss the casualness of just being in a workplace where, you know, you enjoy the company of your colleagues, you enjoy the, the students that you work with. And so I think that’s been the biggest challenge. And I think all the students are feeling a little bit of isolation, right? Like it’s, so some students are living their best life. They like this online thing. I would say the majority are anxious to come back to, to to school and for our co-op students for a lot of them, you know, they’ve done work terms where they were in the workplace and now they’re transitioning to having to learn how to navigate the world of work online. And so that comes with its own set of challenges and, you know, supporting our students through that.


Tracey Klinkhammer (20:31):
So what I love about my team though, is I work with someone who inspires me. He’s you know, one of my, one of my, my manager, Phil, I’ll give him a shout out. He’s always thinking about new ways of doing things. And and I think that’s where you have to go to just like how you talked about, you know, where, what can you do? How can you respond to this in a different way? I think we’ve asked ourselves that as a department and we, you know, we ask that of the students too, when they’re looking at managing through that. So yeah, it’s been a tough year for everybody.


Sam Demma (21:02):
Yeah. That’s great. And I, I agree. It’s a, it’s a weird different year. And I think, you know, I find too, if we focus on the negative too long, we’re always gonna find the negative. And if we try and focus on the positive, no matter how small we can, can grab a hold of it and figure out some other things that can happen because of it. There’s a quote. I love that, you know, without dirt, you can’t plant a seed or, you know, this guy, Charlie rocket always says Santa delivered presence, not in the light, but in dark . And I was like, ah, you know, this little analogy just to remind us that when there isn’t a, a tough situation or something to overcome that there’s also some form of an opportunity hidden in there somewhere. The problem is often sometimes a part of the solution in some way, shape or form.


Tracey Klinkhammer (21:41):
Yeah. And I think that’s what I always tell students too, like lessons that you learn sometimes aren’t wrapped, you know, on your analogy of the gay ifs. They’re not always wrapped in pretty paper. Yeah. sometimes those lessons and you don’t realize that they are actually a gift. So you get these lessons at the time when you’re in it, it might feel really overwhelming and it’s hard to reflect in the moment, but I’ve seen a lot of students that when they look back on those experiences, they realize how important, how impactful they were to where they ended up getting to. But in that moment, it can, it doesn’t feel, it doesn’t always feel like a gift when you’re learning that lesson. That’s not wrapped in the prettiest of papers. You know what I mean? Yeah.


Sam Demma (22:18):
I’m with you. And you mentioned Phil, Phil’s been an inspiration back to Phil for one second. Like what is it that Phil’s done that’s inspired you or you know, motivated you. And I asked the question just because I feel like in our, all of our lives, there are teachers and motivators. Like I can mention people that inspire me. I already mentioned Chris, my coach mm-hmm what is it about Phil that kind of inspires you? I think


Tracey Klinkhammer (22:40):
Phil is just, he’s fantastic. I mean, he’s worked at the university for maybe, I don’t know if he’s gonna get mad, but 15 years, maybe I’m adding up. And I’ve, I’ve worked at UT for five years. What I, what I really appreciate about Phil is he inspires me because he’s always looking to be better for himself and for our students, like he puts our students first. He’s always, I don’t know how he manages to read so much. He listens to a million podcasts. I think he reminds me of the people that I had in my life early on that were always feeding my need to learn and to grow. And so he’s always, you know, flipping me and our team, you know, articles he’s come across and he’s really helped me see the value of that investment in yourself. Cuz sometimes you get really busy as an educator and you realize, so, oh, I have to keep learning.


Tracey Klinkhammer (23:31):
Like I, here I am teaching. And I’m, you know, a lot of my work you know, we, we help our first year students, we teach a course in terms of getting them ready for jobs, but we do a lot of one-on-one counseling. And I think sometimes you get into the, you know, the, the, you know, the kind of the day in day out of your job and you forget that you’ve gotta take that time to invest in yourself. And he’s always reminding me that that’s important. And working with someone in an educational setting that puts students first that, you know, values innovation and new ideas. It’s great. Like, I, I, I, I hope that everybody gets to work with someone like that. So yeah.


Sam Demma (24:08):
And if you could, you know, go back in time not that it’s too far, we’re not gonna date you but if you could…


Tracey Klinkhammer (24:16):
I did talk about my payphone, Sam.


Sam Demma (24:17):
I did talk. That’s why I’m, I’m like, I’m trying to save you here, but it’s too late. if we did go back in time, you know, to Fred Flintstones. Yeah. Yeah. If, if we went back in time to the first year that you, you did this sort of work in education, like knowing what you know now, what advice would you give younger Tracey?


Tracey Klinkhammer (24:36):
Oh my gosh. I would give my younger Tracey, like this year has been tough because I think in this role of caring, you know, you real again, and being present, I didn’t realize the impact of COVID on like of the pandemic on me personally and, and just, you know, working on my own and not having the team to re-energize me. I, I would’ve told myself earlier, make sure you, you take care of yourself a little more, more intentionally. I think it was that, that was it. Aside from that, I, I think, you know, and I probably would’ve put more time earlier and, and I still do it, but just, I forgot how much I love reading and, you know, kind of keeping recharged and connected. So I think those two things is just more about self care and and filling the, filling my bucket so I can fill others. So, yeah.


Sam Demma (25:32):
Oh, cool. I agree. Those are great. Those are great pieces.


Tracey Klinkhammer (25:35):
Would you go back and say, if you could tell yourself before you got on your journey, I’m always curious, what would you do?


Sam Demma (25:39):
Well, unfortunately, there wasn’t any payphone , but I would tell myself two and invest in Tesla for sure. totally joking. If I could go back in time to when I was 17 and going through some tough experiences, I would remind myself that my self worth as a human being, isn’t attached to things that I do that I’m innately, you know, worth just as much as every other human being, just by the fact that I’m here and I’m born mm-hmm I would tell myself that I’m a competitor and I operate best when I challenge myself and it doesn’t have to be in a linear fashion, meaning always soccer as it used to be when I was younger, it could be in any way, shape or form, whether it’s a challenge to run a marathon or to push myself mentally in a specific way or to take a new yoga practice on or something. I would tell myself to, to ask myself how I can use my gifts and talents to serve others and to help others. Cause I feel at my best as well when I’m serving or in some form of service mm-hmm I’ll tell myself to not hate reading throughout high school.


Tracey Klinkhammer (26:45):
Maybe it’s important. I tell my kids to read every day. Reading is so important. They listen to like, you know, they, they underestimate the power of reading, like the, it is important. Okay. What else? Sorry. I’m I’m on your train. I got really onto that one.


Sam Demma (26:57):
Well, I’m sorry. I’m like spitting out 15 different things here. I know you’re making me feel like I gotta go by.


Tracey Klinkhammer (27:01):
I can revisit. What would I tell myself five years ago?


Sam Demma (27:05):
well, you got me on, you got me on the spot too. And I’m like, I dunno.


Tracey Klinkhammer (27:10):
Know what, but what I like though, what I heard about you is it’s all that self-reflection piece. Right? And I think that, and that’s the part where I really, you know, want our students to get to is just about figuring out where your gifts are, where your’re are and really looking inward. I think a lot of students want, and I think, you know, you may have felt that same pressure to look about, you know, look to your left, look to your right and see what other people are doing. It takes a lot of courage to sort of look inward and dis you know, kind of discover for yourself. You know, you talked about you as a competitor and creating a space for yourself where you can leverage that at strength, the yours, and a lot of students spend a lot of time on what they’re not good at, instead of just saying, Hey, what am I good at? And let’s, you know, let’s grow with that. Let’s, you know, nobody’s gonna be great at everything, but figuring out how to really leverage your own strengths and keep moving. So, yeah.


Sam Demma (27:59):
And there’s times where I’ll put myself in a situation where I know I’m not good at something to try and, you know, build this skill mm-hmm , but in certain, you know, certain moments when I’m down or when things aren’t going well, I wanna put myself in a position where I feel at my best, so I can get back to my best mm-hmm . And for me, that’s running or pushing myself physically, but that’s just for me. And I think for everyone, it’s totally different. Like you said, mm-hmm you mentioned reading and I know you love reading. So would you mind sharing a couple of sources or things you’ve read that you think are valuable?


Tracey Klinkhammer (28:28):
Well, thanks for asking Sam. I think I tell I really should get a commission for this cuz the number of people I have reading this book and I know you’ve read the book, you know what I’m gonna say? I do know the third door, not the, and I do not work for Alex, but everybody should read the, I think it, it, it goes for students, it goes for educators. It goes for really anybody in life. It’s a story of resiliency and and it, and it’s applicable in a business context in your own personal life. Would you say, would you say that’s a solid book recommendation?

Sam Demma (29:02):
A hundred percent. In fact, I just, I just have another third door experience. Maybe I can share real quick.


Tracey Klinkhammer (29:08):
I love thethird door. I always, cuz that was basically my life for people that are listening. The third door analogy is essentially a story about what happens when you encounter obstacles. And it’s this young guy who’s in med school who wants to figure out what makes famous people successful. And he, you know, kind of sells a won’t well, you gotta read the book to know, but basically the analogy comes up with is if you can’t, you know, successful people, if they can’t get in the main door of a club or the VIP entrance, they find a third way in. And so I think, you know, when I think about my own life, okay. Wanted to be a teacher, you know, one of the obstacles was obviously my parents were foot in the bill. Okay. I’ll go to engineering, couldn’t get into teachers college. Okay. Do an MBA, got into people enablement, which was ultimately what teaching was and then found a way back to education. So I think eventually I feel like I am where I belong. It’s taken me to get here. I absolutely love my job. I love the people I work with. I love the students. So the third door is a, is a good teacher. And I love that. Now tell me about your third door experience. Tell me about it.


Sam Demma (30:12):
So I’ve been reaching out to people in very unique ways over the past couple of years because of that book and because of things that I’ve been exposed to by mentors as, and colleagues more recently though, there’s this gentleman named Charlie rocket, who’s in the us right now, driving around on, on an RV called the dream machine and he’s making people’s dreams come true. And he’s building like amazing communities all throughout the states and he’s just, he speaks in schools and he does this, these, these dream machine drops like Hasbro gave them five, $500,000 and they give a whole city filled with children, free toys on Christmas that couldn’t afford it. Like there’s, it’s so cool. The work they’re doing and his story’s crazy. Like he managed, he managed a huge rapper named two chains and after seven years became 300 pounds and had a brain tumor and he was gonna die.


Sam Demma (30:58):
And he left his work in the music industry to become an iron man. And in a year he lost 160 pounds and completed this race, which is crazy to think about in the same year that he almost died and had a brain tumor reversed the brain tumor and now is doing all this work. And so I, I think it to myself, wow. What I, what I think I have to offer could really compliment what they’re doing in the states. And so I’ve reached out like 12 times and just not getting it anywhere. I haven’t got in touch with him. He hasn’t got back to me and I finally said, I’m gonna do this. Like, I’m gonna figure this out no matter what it takes. There’s another door here that I’m gonna enter. And I ended up networking with all the people in his, in his Instagram following. And I, I came across a guy named Timmy who happens to be his cameraman and we built like an amazing relationship. And I spent the last three weeks listening to all 62 episode episodes of, of Charlie rocket’s podcast. And I…


Tracey Klinkhammer (31:46):
I love it.


Sam Demma (31:49):
Wait, wait. It gets worse. It gets better. I made a note, a page of notes on every episode. So I have a 62 page booklet with a cover letter that says my onboarding is done. When do we get started question mark PS, don’t skip the last page. And if you flip to the six, the third page, it says www dot message. Dreamer.Com, which is their company and a redirects to a landing page with a video where I pitched this idea of coming on board. And then I spent $180 to get a custom made box with his logo all over it. And his cameraman gave me the mailing address and I just dropped it in the FedEx international express one day shipping today. So stay tuned, decide this here’s an example of the third door.


Tracey Klinkhammer (32:29):
I love it. So, but here, like countless, like 12 times you’ve been rejected, you know, your lack of kind of response. Yeah. It doesn’t, you know what you’re thinking is how can I find a different way in, right? How can I connect with this guy? You are making me, as you describe what he is doing. I feel like I really have to UPP my game.


Sam Demma (32:45):
Geez. Yeah, this guy’s crazy. My gosh, it’s super inspiring.


Tracey Klinkhammer (32:49):
Like how do people do that? I don’t know, like anyways, good for him. And that’s great. I hope you get him on I’m rooting for you. I’m rooting for you.


Sam Demma (32:57):
I’ll let you know.


Tracey Klinkhammer (32:57):
I love it. My onboarding’s been done. When do we get started? Love it.


Sam Demma (33:01):
Little confident, a little confident, right? I like it. I like it. Yeah. Anyways, Tracey, this has been a great conversation. We went down so many different alleys. I don’t wanna say rabbit holes. Cause I feel like that’s a negative thing. I think our were, we, we went down so many, you know, pathways on onboardings on, on, on bridges that were leading us to beautiful highways. So thank you so much for taking the time to, to chat today. If an educator listening wants to reach out to you, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?


Tracey Klinkhammer (33:28):
Think LinkedIn, I don’t know how many Tracey Klinkhammers are on there, but I’m always happy to connect on Linkedin. I don’t have a big social media presence. I think we talked about this. I’m really in this job to really affect change, one student, at a time. And I think that’s kind of always been my way and I, I think I take in that sales experience and my HR experience, cuz I was in consulting roles and I was in education, like training and development. And so that was all about creating, you know, training experiences for people in a workplace that supported their learning. And I think I take all of that with me in my, you know, my experiences with students. And I really want them to know that, you know, our, our team, not just me obviously, but our team’s there and it, and it starts with just one student at a time.


Tracey Klinkhammer (34:13):
And I always, I say to my husband, I have the best job I could be literally sitting across from a student that it’s going be a trailblazer and I’m gonna be able to say, I knew that person mm-hmm when they were a student and maybe just maybe, and maybe they tell me and maybe I’ll never know. Maybe they feel like I had some small part in helping light that fire or help them find that piece of themselves or self reflect or, you know, get them on, you know, support them with the tools they need to get on the path that they want. So that’s why I do it. I do my job because I love my job and I, you know, I want our students to succeed in the way that works for them. So I don’t have a cookie cutter approach. There’s no one pathway that’s right. For any one, you know, that works across all students. It really comes down to each individual. So that’s it. So if anybody wants to learn more about that, they can. But it’s pretty simple. I’m not Charles, you know, Charlie guy, rocket. Yeah. I know Charlie rocket, my goodness. I’m gonna go home and go think about how I can up my game.


Sam Demma (35:14):
He’s not a teacher, so don’t worry, you know, he’s a, but he’s a, like he, he’s just an awesome guy. Like I I’ve wanted to, like, I want to go to the states and do a tour with him and like speak in the schools with him. Like that’s what I’m hoping comes out of it. But yeah, just it’s inspiring.


Tracey Klinkhammer (35:31):
You’re listening. I’m I’m like back in Sam big time. So I’m really excited to keep me posted.


Sam Demma (35:36):
I will. I will. Thank you so much this conversation. I appreciate it. Thanks Sam, take care. And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating in review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tracey

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 16, 2021 by Cooperative Education Experiential Learning Student Leadership Student Success 0

Tom D’Amico – Director of Education with the Ottawa Catholic School Board

Tom D’Amico - Director of Education with the Ottawa Catholic School Board
About Tom D’Amico

Tom D’Amico (@TDOttawa) is the Director of Education with the Ottawa Catholic School Board. He has over 31 years of experience in education and has had many roles including as a teacher, school administrator and as Superintendent of Human Resources and Superintendent of Learning Technologies and as the Associate Director of Education.

An award-winning educator he has been recognized with the Prime Minister’s Award for teaching excellence and with Canada’s Outstanding Principal award. As a Superintendent he received the EXL award to recognize excellence among members of the superintendency.

He has presented across Canada on the topics of educational technology and leadership in the 21st Century. Tom is the Canadian co-lead for New Pedagogies for Deep Learning (NPDL), a global partnership of over 1500 schools across 12 countries focused on practices to develop deep learning and the development of global competencies.

In addition to his educational qualifications, he holds an Osgoode certificate in education law; a workplace mental health leadership certificate, diversity and inclusive management certificate, an executive certificate in conflict management with a focus on alternative dispute resolution, and safe schools certification.

Tom is an off-ice official with the NHL and prior to his career in education was the general manager of Ottawa’s professional soccer team, The Ottawa Intrepid, and also spent time as the general manager of Malkam Cross-Cultural Training, a provider of cross-cultural communication, diversity and employment equity training.

“I believe in the empowerment of youth and their ability to make our world a better place, especially through the use of social learning and technology in a connected global society”.

Connect with Tom: Email | Twitter | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

New Pedagogies for Deep Learning

Trauma-Informed Teaching

Ottawa Catholic School Board

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high-performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today’s special guest is Tom D’Amico. Tom is the director of education with the Ottawa Catholic school board. He has over 31 years of experience in education and has had many roles including being a teacher school administrator, a superintendent of human resources and superintendent of learning technology.


Sam Demma (01:02):
An award-winning educator, he has been recognized with the prime minister’s award for teaching excellence and with Canada’s outstanding principal award, as a superintendent, he received the EXL award to recognize excellence among members of the superintendent. He has presented across Canada on the topic of educational technology and leadership in the 21st century. Tom is the Canadian co-lead for new pedagogies for deep learning NPDL, a global partnership of over 1,500 schools across 12 countries, focused on practices to develop deep learning and the development of global competencies. Tom has a wide breadth of information and knowledge when it comes to education. I really hope you enjoy this interview and conversation with Tom this morning. He truly believes in the empowerment of youth and their ability to make our world a better place, especially through the use of social learning and technology in a connected global society. I’ll see you on the other side.


Sam Demma (02:04):
Tom, welcome to the High Performing Educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Why don’t you start here by introducing yourself to the audience?


Tom D’Amico (02:15):
Happy to join you, Sam. Thanks for the invitation. I’m Tom D’Amico. I’m the director of education here in the Ottawa Catholic school board. And this is my 31st year in education within Ottawa.


Sam Demma (02:26):
And did you from a young age, think you were gonna get into education or what was your childhood dreams and how did that progress you to where you are now?


Tom D’Amico (02:33):
Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great question because I, both, my parents were teachers, so when I was growing up, the last thing I ever wanted to do was become a teacher I saw how they worked every night and every Sunday and I, my passion was soccer. So my, my goal all along was to play professional soccer and that’s what I wanted to do. So I played a high level in high school and then went to McMaster university for, to take Phy-ed. And I, I ended up playing soccer for four years, but my last year I ended up with a serious knee injury. So I had to, to change my plans and I, I realized I could no longer have that dream. So I had a backup plan and my backup plan was I went, went on, did a master’s of, sorry, masters of sports administration at OTAU and the Canadian soccer league, the CSL was just really getting going around that time.


Tom D’Amico (03:27):
And I ended up working with the team and then I was offered the job as their general manager. So it was a new dream and it was exciting and I was I was enjoying it, but then you also have to look at life. And the time I just was just got married, the league was not financially stable. Neither was the team. So I needed another backup plan. And cause my passion was sports and PHED I, when did I did my teachers college teachers, teachers college at Ottawa U and ended up leaving the team and becoming a, and just as aside I found out that my passions actually changed again and it wasn’t PHY ed. And where I found that I really enjoyed working with youth the most was with computers. And this was back in the late eighties and early nineties. And I saw how excited students were with technology and what it could do for them. And I ended up going back and taking some more courses and resulted in me becoming a business department, head and computer teacher. And from there I’ve moved throughout the board into different positions, every vice principal, principal, superintendent, associate director, and now director. So long story. But the answer to your question was, no, I did not dream of being a teacher. And in the end it was the right, right role for me to become an educator.


Sam Demma (04:45):
So bring me back to the day you’re on the field. I believe it was in Windsor. You, you know, you, you, you had an injury, you busted up the back of your knee and after that how did you decide teaching? Because like, that seems like that’s what you, you got into, you went back and finished your master’s of education like, or, sorry. No, you did your, you did a master’s you did a, master’s not in education, in soccer at sport administration.


Tom D’Amico (05:11):
Yeah.


Sam Demma (05:11):
Administration.


Tom D’Amico (05:13):
So, in my last year, because I, I really, you know, I needed, you never know if your professional sports is gonna work out for you. Yeah. It doesn’t mean you get rid of that dream. So when I did blow up my knee completely, it was a posture, Cru lateral collateral, ligament, and meniscus all went at the same time. So I actually went into shock on the field ended up in the hospital. They couldn’t do surgery right away cuz of the swelling, but eventually they, they did the surgery. So as I’m recovering, I’m thinking, my dream is dead. What am I gonna do? And I would say, although it wasn’t diagnosed, I was very depressed because your dream is just pulled from you in a, in a split second. So I had to reground myself and I liked learning and I, I knew I was interested in sports.


Tom D’Amico (05:56):
I loved coaching. I loved working with youth. So I, I changed that direction and ended up working in professional sports as I mentioned. But then when I looked at thinking, all right, professional sports might not work out. Cause the auto Intrepid were not very stable at the time. And the league wasn’t stable. I knew I liked working with youth. I knew I liked learning. And I had parents obviously in the past that have been educators. So that was my natural go-to. And that’s where I ended up going into, into teaching. It still allowed me to be a coach to coach soccer, to run soccer camps. I just couldn’t play at a high level anymore. But at when I entered that, that new door opened, I found all kinds of new opportunities.


Sam Demma (06:38):
Awesome. And what about coaching? Do you enjoy? It sounds like you’ve yeah. Enjoy in both the player experience, but also the coaching experience.


Tom D’Amico (06:47):
Yeah. And, and I, I coach both boys and girls at the time for, for club and then in, in high school itself very different. So with the with the guys team at, at high school, you know, many of them were not wanting to learn. They felt they were peaked and they knew everything. And at the time with the girls teams, it was really about the passion of learning that they wanted to learn how to get better in different skill sets. So that might’ve just been my experience of that school. So I don’t wanna general on gender. But that was my experience and the camps, because the camps I was doing for younger kids I, I found that I had some skills in being able to make it fun and enjoyable. So whether it was working with Tim bit soccer, which is, you know, the four and five year olds and bringing water balloons into the, the practices, just do whatever I could to engage them.


Tom D’Amico (07:40):
But with the goal of helping them develop their own skillsets and passions. So it didn’t matter to me that it was recreational or highly competitive. It was that people were getting out, they were doing what they enjoyed and I had an opportunity to help them with that. So that, that would be where I received some enjoyment from the coach side. The competitive side was still there. So when you, in Ontario, your goal was to get to offset, which you know, we had some success getting to the provincial levels. So that competitive thing side never went away. But I think I had learned that you need to have that balance. It’s not, not everyone is gonna go on and play at university or play professional and they don’t have to be that doesn’t need to be their goal. It could be just fitness, but it also could just be fitting in and socializing.


Tom D’Amico (08:27):
And as a teacher, I really learned that early on that if you could learn the passions of your students and find ways of engaging them, they’re gonna be more successful. And as a teacher, you all have less challenges because the behavioral problems are there. When there’s a relationship mm-hmm behavioral problems tend to come when there isn’t a relationship and they may not have a, an interest in your particular subject at all. So how do you relate to, to kids especially teenagers that don’t wanna be in your subject and the way to do that is find what their interests are and find ways of modifying the curriculum to match their interests.


Sam Demma (09:01):
That’s a great point. I was gonna say, you know, similar to your experience on the soccer field, having a team that’s open-minded and wants to learn is makes it a lot more enjoyable as a coach. And I would probably argue the same as someone in a classroom. You want kids that, you know, want learn and you hit it on the nail by saying, you know, you have to be invested in their interests for them to care about what you’re saying at the front of the classroom. What does that actually look like in a classroom? How do you ensure that you, that you do that as a teacher?


Tom D’Amico (09:28):
Well, I have not been in the class for a long time. So things have certainly certainly changed since I was last lost as a, a classroom teacher. So I certainly don’t espouse to have the talents that many of our new teachers have, but what it looked for me at the time, it was going out if I knew, for example, for sports, if it was a student in my class that was on the volleyball team and there was a game I would be there in the gym to watch them play, to cheer them on. So I was showing interest in, in their excitement and their passion. If it was a student that was in the, the band or in the drama, I made sure that I was there. I would ask them about it early in every class I taught. I always tried to find out as much as I could from, you know, whether it was interviews or just writing opportunities.


Tom D’Amico (10:07):
And I could find out that, you know, someone was caring for their grandmother and the grandmother had moved into their home and was ill and asking them, I saw not, not in front of everyone, but just say, you know, I appreciate you sharing that. How’s your grandmother doing? So you’re showing interest in the person first and the subject second. And to me, that’s what makes some of our teachers, the best they can be is not because they’re passionate about their subject. But they’re passionate about the students and helping students to be the best they can be. And recognizing that sometimes students are, are having a rough day and you need to accept that. And you, you need to, whether you’re bending rules or you’re just pausing them for some point sometimes because a student is late for class, the last thing they need is to be sent down to the office.


Tom D’Amico (10:55):
What they need is someone to know why they’re late or so maybe if they’re not willing to share, right, right. At that time, have a teacher, an educator that knows there’s so much going on in their life. That goes beyond what I’m teaching in this class, subject wise. And I need to respect that and they may not be ready to share with me but find the opportunity to ask them. So, you know, often I, I, I rarely gave detentions as a teacher, but if someone did something that was completely inappropriate, inappropriate, you needed to have a detention. I would never send it down to the office for, for things like that. I would say, okay, you’re gonna meet with me at lunch. That’s your consequence. And at lunch, we’d have a chance to talk. We could, whether it was one on one, or it was in small groups or was using the academics.


Tom D’Amico (11:40):
If I had a duty, I would ask them, come and walk with me. I did the same thing. When I became a vice principal or principal, I would often have people have their consequences doing cleanup in the yard, but I was out there with them and we would do it together. And when you’re doing it together, you have that opportunity to connect and to have discussions and let people know that, you know, they’re human, they make mistakes, we all make mistakes. And sometimes there’s consequences for the mistakes, but it’s the behavior that’s being trying. We’re trying to change, not, not saying to a person that they’re not worthy of being there. So I think all of those are pH fee that goes into what makes people strong.


Sam Demma (12:15):
Educators and walking beside the student, you know, during those moments shows them that you do care about them, as opposed to them being out there by themselves. You know, potentially thinking my school is against me and no one wants to see me succeed. It’s like, oh, you know, we care about you as a person and your development. And, you know, I’m willing to, to walk with you to show you how much I care. I think that’s a really good point when you have the time to do so. You know, you, you did the masters in sports administration, then the masters of education. And then what did your journey look like in education? So tell me more about your first role and how it evolved to where you are now.


Tom D’Amico (12:50):
Yeah, my, my first job in teaching was really interesting. One if as the I, I still remember the principal that hired me and this is, this things have changed now. I’m not sure you’d be able to do this anymore, but , I was teaching at the time in Ontario was called basic math. So grade 10 math, I was teaching pH ed. I was teaching grade 12 economics. I was teaching grade 13 religion. Oh, wow. I a section of adult ed. And then I had one extra course I needed to teach. And he called me into his office. And he said, for your last course, you have a choice. You can teach Spanish or you can teach computer programming. And I looked at him, I said, John, I, I don’t know anything about computers and I don’t teach Spanish and he, he responded by looking in the eyes and saying, Tom, I don’t think you heard my I’m giving you a choice, which of these two do you want ?


Tom D’Amico (13:38):
And I said, well, I guess I have a little interest in computers. So I’ll take computers. So that was in August and school started in September. And what he did was he gave me one book. So there was one book on it was called Wacom Pascal at the time. And I had to read that book to try and fit, figure out how to teach programming grade 10 Pascal. And as I said, I never would’ve picked that on my own, but because he had given that opportunity to me, it, it really changed my career path because I found out I had a passion for computers and technology. And I found out most of my students had the same and were no, no behavioral problems because they were so engaged and motivated to be on the computers. And there was instant rewards from any of them because they would be doing something.


Tom D’Amico (14:24):
And then if you, you, you see the results right away, cuz the computer, whatever you’ve programmed, they could see it work. So it was, it was really interesting. And I went on and took some more courses and ended up really changing away from my degree, which was phys ed and geography. And instead of teaching PHS, ed and geography, moving towards business courses like entrepreneurship at time, which brand new, which we started, I started the first multimedia computer course in Ontario. It was a pilot project. We wrote to the ministry at the time, the cost of a a scanner was about $3,000. The, we had, I think, three computers that had sound cards. And so we had dial up connections for the internet. And what we did was we created what we called the multimedia. So it was project based learning a bit ahead of its time and the multimedia manner.


Tom D’Amico (15:15):
Everyone had different tasks. We had managers, we had staff that would students that would become experts in sound. Some would become experts in videos. And then we looked for real life projects because technology was so new in 1990, you know, what could we do with this? How could we help companies how we helped small businesses? So we were doing real real life projects while learning the material. And I remember contacting the government, the federal government. So I saw a grant opportunity and it was probably 1991. And they were offering money to the, anyone that was interested in helping to digitize real Canadian artifacts. So I contacted them and they said, I said, I’d love to get my students involved. And the response was, we hadn’t thought of students, but that’s a great idea. And the project they gave us two amazing projects.


Tom D’Amico (16:03):
One was digitizing the books of remembrance. So the books of remembrance showing Canadian shoulders that had died, sit sits on parliament hill in house of near the house of commons. And one page at a time was being turned. So you had to be there on that day to see a relative’s name in the book. Wow. And they trusted us and our students to get the proper equipment. And we digitized it page by page and put it online in, in early nineties so that anyone could see their relatives names in the book. So the students that worked on that, you knew they weren’t doing it for a mark. You know, they were doing it to make a difference. And the second project they gave us was digitizing RTO hall. So looking at what happens with the governor general, and I took a group of students in the summer, a small group, they got to meet the governor general.


Tom D’Amico (16:52):
They got picture is they got the back behind the scenes tour and they had so much pride in all their, all of their work. So those were some early things in my career that I really saw the advantages of technology and what students could do with their passions. So my roots from there was I, I had been tapped on the shoulder by some other leaders to say, you should consider adminis. I loved teaching. I didn’t wanna leave teaching, but I took the courses just in case I wanted to open those doors later on. And sure enough, once I had taken the two courses, there’s a principals part one and a principals part two course. I was offered opportunity. I had to lead the school and go to another school as a vice principal. And I loved that role because as a vice principal, some people think the vice principle is both the disciplinarian.


Tom D’Amico (17:40):
And I think of a vice principle approaches. That is their job. It’s not gonna be a very fulfilling role. Yeah. If all you’re doing is chasing kids for skipping class and dealing with kids that were smoking on property, et cetera. But I viewed it as a chance to build relationships and help students that sometimes people call ’em at risk. I, I would call ’em students that need the most support. Mm. So the ones that need the most support are the ones that I had an opportunity now, regardless of who their teachers were to try and help them. And I wasn’t always successful and I made mistakes. But for many, I, I would think that I hoped that I was able to help them make some better decisions. And when they made wrong decisions, whether it was a suspension or detention, make them feel that when they were back, you have another shot, keep going.


Tom D’Amico (18:24):
You know, you turn that page. You’re not gonna be painted with a brush that you’re, you’re a bad person. You’ve made mistakes. So that was my experience as a VP. And then I had the opportunity for a principal. And as a principal, you delegate a lot of the tasks to your VP. So I, I think you have even more opportunity to shape culture as a principal. Mm. So as a principal, you can really delegate some of the day to day managerial tasks and you have a lot of time to work on leadership. So I loved being a principal, both in a couple, several schools. I was a principal at, I left the board at one point, I was doing the continuing education department, ed and ESL. And I left to become a general manager of Malcolm cross-cultural training. So it was just because I had that entrepreneurial spirit and the business side, I took a leave of absence from the board and started working from Malcolm.


Tom D’Amico (19:18):
And it was fabulous because you were going into companies, helping them with their equity. Again, the timing, this is 2001. So we’re looking at different society 20 years ago. And when the tragedy on September 11th hit, all of a sudden our services were in so much demand because companies needed people to come in to help people learn how to get along and not be fearful of people from other cultures. So I had to make the decision whether to buy into the company and make that a new career change or go back to education because I was on a one year leave of absence. Mm. And what I missed was the community. So I, I did let the owner know that I appreciated the opportunity and I was choosing to go back to the board. So I went back to the school board and give up that business side because I missed just dealing with people so much not having to deal about money and setting contracts and all, all of those areas.


Tom D’Amico (20:16):
So I came back and became a principal at a downtown school in Ottawa and backed a lot of high school, which I, I loved. I was there for six years, which is wonderful because you get to see students coming in. We were a seven to 12 school. So I got to see students coming in grade seven and then see them grad like grade 12. And you can see how much people changed from, you know, 11 to 12 year old to a 17 year old. Mm. And then from there a lot of these were tapping on shoulders. So I always took the courses I needed to be available if I decided to do something else, but I, I never left a job because I didn’t like it. I’ve always loved every job I’ve had. But one of the things, the next step, if you’re looking at a hierarchy is a superintendent and our board auto Catholic operates in a very flat model.


Tom D’Amico (21:02):
So although there are different positions, we really always have believe that leadership can be with or without a title, and everyone has a role to play. But I took the courses I needed because to become a superintendent, you have to do your supervisory officer qualification programs. So I, I did take those and sure enough, an opportunity came and technology and I applied and was successful, but it’s not just technology that portfolio. I also had the equity portfolio. I had the data portfolio, the, the computers, I had families at schools. So I got to work with, with principals. And I, I learned more skills in that, in those areas. And then there was an opportunity to switch into human resources. So I, I moved into superintendent of human resources and, and again, you’re, you’re dealing with good and bad, right? So there’s some good things or some bad things that happen.


Tom D’Amico (21:51):
We, we, at the time probably about 4,500 employees now we’re up to 6,000 employees. So you’re looking at little city, so good and bad things will, will happen. But I think as a leader, as an educator, you need to anticipate that there will be bad days and bad things happen, but then move on it from them and not get your judgment clouded by when you’re stuck with a bad thing, move on to all the good things you can do. And then the structure in our board was we have an associate director that all the superintendents report to, and then the director. So I ended up becoming the associate director for five years. And then two years ago, I switched the roles to director when one of my mentors said, Denise, Andre retired as director. And I was easy, easily easy for me to move into her position. All of us have different styles. So you’re never trying to be the leader that you’re replacing, but you’re trying to build on what they had built before you, so that’s been my my journey. Wow.


Sam Demma (22:46):
What a diverse experience. It’s, it’s really cool to hear all the different positions you’ve worked in and what you learn from each of them, and also how you think they impact the school and the community. And like you’re saying, the mini city that is a board, a board of education where do you think your beliefs, values and principles come from, you know, as an educator, because what you shared with me at each of those steps, your beliefs and values and how, although there’s bad things, you know, you want to focus on the good, and, you know, when you, you know, you had principles in the way that you dealt with students, like where did you, where did you get all those insights and principles and values from?


Tom D’Amico (23:24):
Yeah, everyone is different. Sam was I’m sure. You know, but I, I would say for me, it started in my house with my, in my, both my parents, I, I grew, grew up in a, a Catholic household with two Catholic educators. So I obviously saw them model. And I think I was taught at a young age that, although we didn’t, we were, I would say middle class, we never went without food or had some of the challenges that I know many youth have in our city. But we didn’t have a lot. So, you know, both my parents were when they were both teaching teaching, didn’t pay a lot back in the seventies and when I was growing up but we had what we needed. And I think I learned the value of hard from them. I learned the value of sharing, what you have when you do have enough that you help others.


Tom D’Amico (24:11):
So I would say it came largely from my parents and from my faith, but then my own experiences in my schools. I I’ve always believed that it’s a sort of a silly saying, but experience comes from experience, not from age . So when I was growing up, you know, a lot of times you could see people. And even though as a young educator, some of the students are always waiting to leave. They’re waiting for the next year. You know, you’re in grade eight, I’m gonna wait till I’m in high school in grade nine grade nine, you think, well, I’m just a, a, a rookie in grade nine. I’ll wait until I get into grade 10 before I take a leadership role. And then in grade 10, you think, well, I’m gonna be a senior in grade 11, and then you wait to grade 12 and by then you’ve missed four years or opportunity to lead.


Tom D’Amico (24:53):
So I’ve always believed that that anyone can lead at any time at any age. And the role of the adults is to remove some of those barriers and to help people with resources. So even as an educator, as a principal, I may not always be dealing with students. It could be staff, but I think those values are there. That don’t be so quick to say no to a, to a creative idea instead look at, well, what are the, not just the pros and cons, but what can I do to help them to see what can be done? And is the timing, the issue? Is it the resort to the issues, but always look at what we can do with, with youth, you know, we, we had someone that wanted to start a belly dance club. So I remember as a principal thinking, is this a joke?


Tom D’Amico (25:37):
Am I being set up? And when I looked into it, no, this was someone that, that’s what they did in the community. And they were good at it. And they wanted a way to let their peers know that this is what they could do. So brought than saying, no, you can’t, because this is gonna be problematic. It’s find a teacher supervisor. If you can find a teacher, supervisor, we’ll support where you need to get it going. I think it only lasted for a year or two, but for that student, it, it made a difference. So that’s where I would say that what’s what shaped and formed me as well as some fabulous mentors. I always look to mentors and leaders and ask them questions, looked at what can I learn from them? But I’ve never tried to replicate a leader. As I said, I’ve always tried to build on those skills.


Tom D’Amico (26:19):
And I think that’s another area where some people experience some, some failures is they see someone really strong or a great idea at one school and they try and replicate that person’s skillset or that idea instead of how do I iterate it, how do I take what’s working there and now apply it to my context. And certainly with equity, it’s so important to look at the cultural backgrounds of our students before taking an idea and saying, well, this is working at this school. If I need to look at that school and say, yeah, it’s working. And it’s a, you know, far majority Italian background, as opposed to another school, far majority Filipino background. I need to understand who I’m supporting and then recognize within that you have also other subcultures and different areas to look at. So that would be my my experience growing


Sam Demma (27:09):
Up. Oh, that’s awesome. I appreciate you sharing. I have to ask too, cuz you mentioned computers and you know, the board having three of them and how expensive they were. And my dad used to tell me growing up that they’d use these things called floppy disks. Do you remember, do you remember this?


Tom D’Amico (27:24):
I could bet your dad on that because even before floppy discs I actually did take a course in, in high school when I was in grade 10 or 11 and it, it happened to be computer programming. So although I said, I didn’t have any background, I took one course. And the way it worked to Sam was we had these bubble. So we had to program, we had these cards that had ones and zeros and you had to fill ’em in by pencil to write your program. They would then get mailed to the university of Waterloo and they would send it back about a week later and let you know where the errors were. So it was just unbelievable how awful that process was. Wow. and then yes, I started my first computer had a tape drive, so it wasn’t even a floppy disc.


Tom D’Amico (28:10):
It was a tape drive. And then from that, there were different sizes of floppy discs. So I’ve experienced all of those up to today’s. I, I try and stay as current as I can with the technologies, but they, they certainly have gone through lots of iterations and I member even records. So record records. I had a record in my garage and my daughters are both adults now, but at one point she saw this record in the garage and she said, dad were the CD ROMs ever big at your, in your age? had to explain to her, it wasn’t a CD rom it was a, a record for a record player. So that’s, funny’s a fun activity taking some of those items and give them to young children now and say, what do you think this


Sam Demma (28:48):
Is? I heard old cell phones used to be massive too. carrying around a brick. But


Tom D’Amico (28:53):
Yes, we had a staff member at my, at my first job as a teacher in, in 1990. He had a brief case that he carried around with them and in the briefcase was the cell phone. Wow. Cause he had a part-time job in the construction industry. And so when we would be on break in the staff room, he would take out this phone, which was literally you know, probably 10 to 15 times today’s phones. Look, it looked like a really large walkie talkie. Yeah. And that was one of the first cell phones that I ever saw and saw someone using. So we we’d come a long way.


Sam Demma (29:25):
So if you could travel will not back to the future, but back to the past and you know, speak to yourself in your first year of education, both the experience that you’ve gone through and the wisdom you’ve gleaned now, like what advice would you give your younger self walking into that classroom?


Tom D’Amico (29:43):
That, that’s a great question. And not having thought of that one prior to right now, the two things that come to mind one of them is letting myself know that there’s going to be bad days, but there’s gonna be way more good days. And that would be at my, my earlier advice. But I think early in my teaching career, it was so hard with teaching six different subjects that I wasn’t prepped for. There weren’t all the resources that we have now today. And every night staying up so late just thinking, you know, how am I ever gonna keep up? So that would be one piece of advice I would give myself, just know there’s gonna be bad days and expect it. And then you can move on. There’s gonna be way more good days. That would, that would be one key piece of advice.


Tom D’Amico (30:29):
And I guess the other piece I would give now is knowing that you can, you’ll never be able to accomplish everything, whether it’s teaching or it’s leading. So you have to know when to stop and when to say no to take care of yourself. So that, that reflects wellbeing. So, you know, if you’re, whether it’s marking as a teacher or it’s working on the perfect assignment, a lot of these are lessons learned during the pandemic. But I think my message to a younger self would’ve been don’t aim for perfection aim to do your best and sometimes doing your best. You means not doing everything could be missing deadlines. It could mean not having the best perfect assignment like something that might take two hours only spending an hour, an hour and a half and leaving that half hour for you for your own wellness and wellbeing. That would be my advice because there’s a lot of workaholics in, in teaching and a lot of type a personalities and that’s not necessarily healthy. And it’s, it shouldn’t be a badge of honor to say that you work till midnight, seven days a week. Mm. And the badge of honor would be, I, I worked to get enough done to be appropriate and support all my students, but also to dedicate time to myself and my family. I, I think that’s a shift that we need to continue to see.


Sam Demma (31:45):
I love that. And what do you think are some of the opportunities and some of the challenges that exist in education today as well? I know, you know, it’s changed a lot over the years and I think every year offers a new learning but yeah. What do you think are some of the, both the challenges and opportunities


Tom D’Amico (32:02):
Re reflecting that I’m doing the podcast with you during the pandemic. I mean, that obviously brings the challenges right away challenges during the pandemic have been huge because people are coming into schools with fear and having experienced trauma. And I think one of those challenges is that sometimes we just focus in the last two years, the pandemic being the physical, if you don’t catch COVID, you’re all good, but that’s not reality that people are afraid. They’re afraid they’re gonna catch COVID, they’re afraid they’re going to either lose their life. Or even if they’re not worried about they’re gonna catch it and spread it to someone else like, but so we have to have the opportunity there is for trauma-informed teaching and trauma-informed teaching needs, focusing on relationships. So I think that’s a real positive that’s come out of a pandemic and the people have seen the need to support one another, whether it’s student or staff, but also to have check-ins to check-ins to see how are you doing?


Tom D’Amico (32:57):
And it goes back to what I said about 1990s which really worked for me, was getting to know people first in subject second, we’ve had to intentionally do that during the pandemic to make sure are you okay? Are you, you know, is your family getting food? Do you have internet? Do you need a device before we can worry about teaching? The other challenge I’ll highlight and it’s, it’s a good one. And being called to task in this, in our current world, in society with the injustice of equity. So I, I, I use poverty as one example, but we’ve certainly seen anti-Asian racism. We’ve seen anti-black racism. We’ve seen challenges for members of the LG T. There’s so many unjust situations right now that we have to do better. And we have to recognize we just finished national truth and reconciliation day yesterday in orange shirt day.


Tom D’Amico (33:50):
That’s a sad chapter of our country, but we have to recognize it and learn from it and make things better. So those are the opportunities that as we recognize the problems, we can make them better. I’ll, I’ll give an example from our board. And I’m just taking one piece of equity. It could be many different areas of equity. So we have students that are, are black in our schools and our high schools, and what we’ve created are black student associations, so that they have more of a voice and they can look for what change are needed. And that’s a great opportunity to create those groups for, for equity seeking groups, but also to give ’em a voice. And so what I did as director was I said, I want to take one student from each of these black student associations and create an advisory committee so they can meet with me as director.


Tom D’Amico (34:37):
And we meet about every six weeks and they can tell me what’s going well. And what’s going well in our schools. And then being in a, in a privileged position of leadership and having some power, I’m able to try and implement some changes for the changes coming because of them. So they’re identifying things. We will have another black student association form, I think November 18th, this, this current school year. And I took part last year. I, I just listened. I, I was there and students led everything and they shared some terrible stories. So when they share stories of someone using the N word and how it made them feel, or seeing an educator that didn’t react when that was done, or didn’t know how to react having someone you know, read to kill a Mockingbird, you know, things that we can change structurally that we just hadn’t done.


Tom D’Amico (35:24):
So I think those are challenges, but they’re great opportunities. Black lives matter movement that can be really difficult in a school, or it can be empowering. So we need to find ways to do things appropriately and to empower youth so that they see that they can make changes, cuz they can make changes. We had a school, not all of our Catholic schools in Ottawa have dress code. Only four. I believe of the 15 have not dress code. They all have dress code, but they have uniforms. So two examples one of our schools they went the principal and they said, we wanna do something more for black lives matter. And we’ve designed a t-shirt and we wanna sell the t-shirt and the principal was completely giving them power by saying, I think that’s Agus idea. And what if we make that shirt be allowed as part of the uniform?


Tom D’Amico (36:12):
So people don’t have to just wear the school uniform that can also wear that and, and what a great activity. It, it raised money and the money went to a graduate of nut school who was raising money for a program. I believe it was in Uganda starting a, a sports program there. So it was just one thing after another, that was really positive out of their, these students generating that idea. Another example would be the group that met with me saying, you know, we have a bad policy in our board that students can’t wear bandanas. And it, it really reiterates inappropriate conclusions that a student wearing a bandana is part of a gang. And it’s an outdated concept that we just never changed. And it doesn’t reflect the fact that there needs to be some culture awareness that some headgear should be allowed in schools.


Tom D’Amico (37:02):
Yes. You could say a baseball cap is not gonna be allowed cause we’ve seen that as honor respect, but there are other headgear that is culturally appropriate. So we changed our policy because of those students. And now each school is going back and they’re implementing it and they’ll have some challenges because some people will push it to limits because that’s something teenagers do. And, and we need to expect them to push the limits and find what a reasonable solution or balance is. So those are challenges that have resulted in new opportunities and I feel are resulting in, in a better school board, overall, a more educated staff and a more educated group of leaders. As, as we continue to look at a, do we improve equity and how do we learn we’re on the same journey together. It sounds


Sam Demma (37:43):
Like a very student-centric view that you and your colleagues in the school board has, which is awesome. It’s cool to hear the different challenges, but also the equal seat of opportunity in each of them and how the, how those things are being brought to life in the schools. If another educator is listening and is at all inspired by this convers or enjoy to laugh about old technology and wants to reach out what would be the best way for them to, you know, shoot you a message what would be the best way for them to reach out?


Tom D’Amico (38:10):
So if it’s an educator, I would say Twitter (@TDOttawa). I know I have not reached the platform I need to be on for our students. So I should be on TikTok and Instagram. our school board is I’m not, but it’s on my learning path to, it just keeps changing. But I know for students they are there and I work with our students and for them, I have to teach them how to use email so that they can email me. But that’s the other path, certainly just do a search for our school board, Tom D’Amico, co-director of education that can email me Director@ocsb.ca. I will respond to every email I receive usually within 24 hours. That’s my, my time to get back to people and on, on Twitter, because it’s such a fabulous way for educators to share what they’re doing.


Tom D’Amico (38:58):
I’m always on Twitter just to lurk to see what their people are doing and to respond. We have 83 schools, so it’s not possible for me to get 83 schools, but in 30 minutes, as long as they’ve used common hashtags, I can see what’s happening right across our board. And then recognizing not everyone’s on Twitter. We have to also find other ways to, to be there in person when we can. And for our, for our students, I do know that our, we have a student Senate that our associate director meets with and I try and make those meetings when I can they’re on Instagram. So they will share all as much as they can. The great successes at their stories with other student, Senate leaders and student council co-presidents so they can borrow ideas and then modify them to make them work at their schools.


Sam Demma (39:43):
Awesome. That’s amazing. I love the hashtag idea too. Tom, thank you so much for taking some time outta your day to come on the show here today. I really appreciate it. It’s been an honor chatting with you about your philosophies, values and journey throughout education. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.


Tom D’Amico (39:58):
Yep. Perfect. Thanks Sam. Really appreciate it. Take care.


Sam Demma (40:02):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit for. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperformingeducator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities promise. I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tom

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 15, 2021 by Director of Education Experiential Learning Principals Student Success Superintendent Teachers 0

Tina Edwards – President of the Saskatchewan Association of Student Council Advisors

Tina Edwards - President of the Saskatchewan Association of Student Council Advisors
About Tina Edwards

Tina Edwards has been an educator in Saskatchewan for the past 27 years, but still considers herself a rookie in the education game. Student leadership has been a passion of hers since she entered the teaching profession in 1994.

Two highlights of her career are hosting the Saskatchewan Student Leadership Conference in 2012 and again in 2019. Projects like these prove that students can accomplish anything if they are willing to work hard and work together as a team.

Tina believes that every person has the ability to be a leader, as long as they are willing to work on being a good human first. After that, anything is possible!

Connect with Tina: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Saskatchewan Association of Student Council Advisors

Winton High School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s special guest was referred by a past guest and her name is Tina Edwards. Tina has been an educator in Saskatchewan for the past 27 years, but still considers herself a rookie in the education game. Student leadership has been a passion of hers since she entered the teaching profession in 1994. Two highlights of her career are hosting the Saskatchewan student leadership conference in 2012 and again, in 2019. Projects like these prove that students can accomplish anything if they’re willing to work hard and work together as a team. Tina believes that every person has the ability to be a leader as long as they’re to work on being a good human first after that, anything is possible. I hope you enjoy this amazing conversation with Tina Edwards and we’ll see you on the other side.


Sam Demma (01:32):
Tina, welcome to the high performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. You are highly recommended by not one but two past guests. Why don’t you start by yourself?


Tina Edwards (01:44):
Oh my goodness. The pressure you’re putting on me. So earlier, my name is Tina Edwards and I’m a teacher at Winston high school in Saskatchewan. I’m also the president of SASCA, which is our student leadership in Saskatchewan and yeah, that’s kind of me!


Sam Demma (02:05):
When in your journey, did you get involved in student leadership and what prompted you to move in that direction and get more, more engaged?


Tina Edwards (02:14):
Well, I, I was a student leader when I was in high school myself, so that’s kind of where my journey started. And I just, as I got into the teaching, that opportunity opened itself to me and I began taking students to leadership conferences and 20, some years later the opportunity came up that I decided let’s try and host the conference, which is a huge undertaking. Did that in 2012. And when you are hosting, you automatically go onto the SASA executive and then they just couldn’t get rid of me. And I stayed and eventually became president and hosted the conference a second time.


Sam Demma (02:55):
Ah, that’s amazing. And let’s go back for a second to you as the student leader in high school. Yeah. So if you could think back what as a student prompted you to get involved as a student leader, did you have a teacher who tap you on the shoulder or how did that journey look like?


Tina Edwards (03:12):
Well, I grew up in a small town and, and when I say small town, I’m saying under 200 people, oh wow. I, and it really just became that every project we did in that town, it needed everybody to, to make it happen. And so I grew up just watching and participating and knowing that you needed to be an active member in whatever the project ahead of you was. So that’s kind of where it started. And then I think I just had some really strong leadership skills and I wasn’t really afraid to take action. So it just kind of flowed naturally for me. And it, nobody really told me, I just thought, Hey, why can’t I, so why can’t I be a student leader? And I couldn’t come up with a good reason. So there we go.


Sam Demma (03:59):
That’s awesome. And do you still remember the teachers that were overlooking student leadership and student council back when you were in high school?


Tina Edwards (04:06):
Yeah, definitely. I do. And, and I guess I always kind of looked up to them and, and allowed them to show me what it was like to be a leader, but not necessarily being in charge and working with other people. And I really kind of admired that.


Sam Demma (04:24):
Oh, that’s awesome. And let’s continue down the journey. So you finished high school and did you know at that age that you wanted to get into teaching or how did you navigate the career search for yourself?


Tina Edwards (04:34):
Yeah, I didn’t really have a choice. It teaching career found me and I, I always coached, I taught swimming lessons. I babysat, it just was a calling and, and it, there was just no question about it. I was going to be a teacher and I had to work really hard to get into university for my first year. Cuz at that time the marks were really high to get in and I just worked hard and kept going. And that was a really easy decision for me.


Sam Demma (05:04):
Well, tell me more. Did you have like teachers tapping you on your shoulder saying, you know, Tina you’d be a great educator. Did your parents work in teaching or Nope. How did it, how did it exactly find you?


Tina Edwards (05:15):
You know, it just, I grew up wanting to be a teacher and I loved kids and I always found ways to engage in, in working with kids, whether it was volunteering or summer jobs working in a living in a small town of 200 people. You just, everybody was family and that’s, that’s what I knew I wanted.


Sam Demma (05:39):
That’s amazing. And you mentioned coaching a little as well, was four, it’s a big part of your own childhood.


Tina Edwards (05:45):
Yeah, definitely. In a small town there isn’t much to do other than the sports that happened to be in that season at that time. And, and you know what, I was never a great athlete. I, I just really enjoyed the team aspect and being part of a team and I was just happy to be there and do my part. Hmm that’s awesome. And the coach, the coaching just kind of evolved and it’s coaching and leading was never something I had to work really hard at. It just, it just felt natural for me.


Sam Demma (06:17):
And do you think coaching and leading a group are two very similar things like whether or not you’re teaching a sport, you know, working as the, you know, president of SASCA is probably similar to coaching a team in some way, shape or form. Is there a lot of similarities between the two?


Tina Edwards (06:32):
Well, I always say I’m lucky because when I think when you coach a sports team, you’re given some, some opportunities or some, some times where you have to make some really hard decisions where you’re not gonna make everybody happy. And I feel in the, in the job I have and all the, the positions I’ve had, I, I’ve never had to make somebody unhappy. Mm I’m. Just there to be a cheerleader and, and get us working towards a common goal. And, and I selfishly really appreciate that. I get to live in my happy land. Mm . I don’t have to make any game day decisions.


Sam Demma (07:09):
Yeah, I okay. Yeah. So there is one stark difference. Everyone’s happy. yeah. Yeah. That’s awesome. That’s so cool. And so start teaching or you go to teachers college, it’s a tough first year. You work through that. What did your first job in education look like? Let’s go back there for a second.


Tina Edwards (07:27):
Well, my first job was actually in another small town of Combs where actually I do live right now. Nice. I, I just took a, a maternity leave for just a few months there and I knew it was coming to an end. And so then I took a job. I was in Carlisle for two years, which was about a four hour drive away. So that was really great. It got me definitely out of my comfort zone, met some new people, really had time to figure out what I wanted my teaching career to look like. And I dove right into the community there right away. And of course, such great positive connections were made. And, and then it was just straight on from there. And then I knew I was wanting, I was going to be getting married and eventually took me a few years, but I made my way back closer to where I was getting married and where I actually live now. And now I’m in Watchers high school, Winston high school in Watchers. And this has been my 22nd year in this school.


Sam Demma (08:32):
That’s awesome. And education has had many, you know, turns and twists. And I would say most of them happened over the two and a half years. what, what are some of the challenges that the school has been faced with over the past two years? And you know, how have you strive to kind of overcome those things as a community?


Tina Edwards (08:52):
Well, our, our school really prides ourself in being a family. First, we talk about the Wildcat family and, and usually when, when people say we’re a Wildcat family, they might think we’re talking about sports. And really it is sports is a piece of it, but it is just a piece of it. We work really hard in our school to make sure everybody feels connected. We started something called wild cap pride, where all the students are divided into color groups, mixed within different grades. And we do projects every couple, couple times a month and where we get the whole group family together, a whole school together and just work together on as a team at, and we do projects like we’ll play outdoor games. We might volunteer in the community. And so when COVID hit our family, we talk about isolation and that’s what our family had to do. We, we had to break apart. We, we could no longer get together as a whole, a whole family. And, and that was really hard on us. Mm.


Sam Demma (09:59):
Yeah. And I, I couldn’t imagine, it seems like every school I talked to has had a similar, but sometimes different experiences based on location. Was your school closed down? How long did you have to isolate or did the school ever close?


Tina Edwards (10:13):
Yeah, we, we closed from may until, or sorry, March until June of 2020. Yep. And then we, where we were online a little bit in there, but that it definitely was optional for students. Mm. So it was really hard. We were trying to engage people. We were trying to get connected with our students and some didn’t wanna be you connected with, and some, maybe couldn’t be connected with cuz where they were living rural. They didn’t, their families maybe didn’t have internet connections. So it was just, it, it was a tough time cuz we were trying to make it seem normal and it, it just wasn’t.


Sam Demma (10:52):
And you were also juggling SASA at the same time. So how did that yeah. Adjust or pivot or change, you know, based on the situation, you know.


Tina Edwards (11:01):
Really ironically our school hosted the last leadership conference in, in 2019 in September, 2019. And had we known what was to come? I, I don’t know, like we were able to host it. We were so very lucky. We had to province with us. We had a thousand leaders in our town of about 2000 people. Wow. they’re


Sam Demma (11:25):
All bill it out into like different, oh,


Tina Edwards (11:27):
Bill it out. Yeah. It, it was a great experience, but we did had no idea what was coming down a few months later. So then juggling Saska was really hard because what do we do? What do we do with this poor host community Goll lake that is supposed to be hosting in, in 2021 and, or I guess it’d be 2020. Do we, do we try to make it go? Do we cancel it? What do we do with the money that they’re out? It, it was, there was just no answers. We had to really struggle hard.


Sam Demma (12:00):
Yeah. That’s a tough situation. Did did, did the conference go on in 2020? Was it postponed or yeah,


Tina Edwards (12:08):
We actually gave them the option. They could postpone it, they could cancel it. They chose to cancel it just given the group of students that they were kind of framing the conference around would then have been graduated. So and they were, they were fairly far in their planning, but money wise, they weren’t too terribly invested. Mm. So we, we supported them in counseling it and trying to just make things balance out at the end and, and call it a year. And then Melfort was, had the next host bid host and they ended up canceling theirs as well. They were just really hadn’t even really started their, their planning. So it, it, it was okay. The problem we have now though, is how do we pick this up again? Yeah. How, when, who, how, where, and that’s what we’re struggling with right now. Mm.


Sam Demma (13:06):
So future planning is currently happening. Some, some in some way, shape or form


Tina Edwards (13:11):
well and, or no planning. We, yeah, we just don’t. I mean, how does a school take upon this venture when you don’t know what tomorrow’s gonna look like? Right. And, and it takes a good solid two to three years to plan a conference like this. Yeah. So I, I have some fear that I’m not sure when the next one is going to happen.


Sam Demma (13:31):
What does the planning look like? Like give some insight into people, people listening to what a thousand person conference building and the homes in your community, the what kind of planning looks like for something like that oh,


Tina Edwards (13:43):
The planning itself. Oh my goodness. I don’t wanna scare anybody off, but it is, it is, it is so much work, but it is so rewarding at the same time. Yeah, it , I don’t even know where to begin, but yeah, it, it is, it is a lot of work, but it is, it is great to see those kids coming together and planning and, and, you know, if I always tell the students, you can’t write a marathon tomorrow, you can’t think about up that marathon. You gotta break it down into little pieces. And, and that’s what we really did. And, you know, we got our group, our planning group together. We got our community behind us, started thinking about what we wanted our conference to look like. What, what things did we wanna give to our attendees? What what are the date? What are the activities? And just broke it down into little chunks. And before you knew it, the three years of planning was over and it was go time.


Sam Demma (14:45):
I was telling you before the interview started, that, you know, I felt that when COVID initially hit, it seemed like all the emphasis and support was being placed on the students and PE you know, educators getting supported as well. But maybe it was a little more behind the scenes. And I’m curious to know, what do you think the struggles and challenges were for educators during that time, and even now coming out of it? Maybe some of the things you experienced personally, but saw your peers going through as well.


Tina Edwards (15:11):
Yeah, our, I don’t think the average teacher goes into teaching for the academic part of it only. Yep. We, we are here cuz we like, we like kids, we like, we like their energy. We like seeing what they’re capable of. And that was really difficult to see everything come to a halt and, and not being E even able to interact with the kids. Like we used to be able to last year we were in cohorts, we were all in different times and schedules and breaks and noon hours. And we literally did not see each other. And, and that was lonely. And, and you just, you’re on a little bit of an island.


Sam Demma (15:53):
Mm. And did, does SASCA also support staff or is it solely towards the student?


Tina Edwards (15:59):
It, it is advisors. Yeah. It, it is geared towards advisors. Our, our main, our main purpose though, is supporting advisors in leading and leadership in, within their schools. So we did do an online conference for students and advisors last year. I, I think we’re, we’re getting to the point though, where everybody’s had enough of online, everything like, we it’s, it’s hard to stay engaged and, and have students just stare at a computer all the time. And so we’re actually in the middle of planning, what this year’s gonna look like for SASCO we’re, we’re hanging on, we’re trying to keep our membership strong. We’re trying to offer different activities, but it’s, it’s hard.


Sam Demma (16:44):
Yeah, no, I hear you. If you, if you do something virtual, just make sure there’s some, there’s some music and dancing. Yeah.


Tina Edwards (16:53):
Our conference last year was really good. Nice. And I think the people who attended it were, were really appreciative of having that opportunity. I just don’t know if we can do it two years in a row and, and still engage the people that we’re trying to engage. So we’re really struggling on where we go from here and what it looks like, and, and it’s important. And we don’t wanna say, all right, we’re not gonna do anything for the next three years. That would be terrible if all these years of leadership conference and the memories kind of go on, go forgotten. And, and that’s what I’m trying to work hard at right now is making sure SASA and student leader stays at the front, even though we can’t do a lot of, of those typical activities.


Sam Demma (17:40):
Yeah. I think it’s an important conversation to have and start having. And it’s cool to hear that you are having it. I think that extracurriculars student leadership clubs, all of those things just add such a huge student experience to yeah. Everyone in your school, you know? Yeah.


Tina Edwards (17:55):
And students, they don’t come to school for the academics. Yeah. There’s a small majority that, that do, but I would say the most people come here for the other things, the other activities and, and , you know, the kids have been doing so well that last year they had everything canceled. Mm. And we were able to focus more on academics and they just, they did what we needed them to do. And there, there was no pity parties. We were just moving on. And so appreciative of what kids are able to do and how resilient they can be.


Sam Demma (18:31):
If, if, I guess if education was like a three course meal, academics would be like the appetizer or the dessert and oh, a


Tina Edwards (18:37):
Hundred percent. Absolutely. Yeah. And yeah, it’s just, it’s just hard cuz we know that a lot of students are struggling either in their home life or in their peer circle and or their academics. And we try to help students as a whole, not just as one part. So we’re really trying hard to connect all of those pieces and COVID is not helping us.


Sam Demma (19:02):
And why do you think student leadership and you know, everything else aside from academics is a school in a school is so important because there might be someone out there who’s not fully bought into the idea that, you know, student leadership can change a kid’s life or extracurriculars can help them build skills. They would never build elsewhere. Like why do you think student leadership and extracurriculars are important?


Tina Edwards (19:23):
Well, you know, when you look at academics, not everybody’s an academic student, they could work. So, so very hard and still never improve their academics. That can be said as well with athletics. Mm-Hmm , some students are not athletic. They could work every day and still not improve. Their athleticism student leader is about being a good human. And I really believe that everybody can be a good human. And so it’s so something that everybody can achieve and it makes a, it’s a, a fair playing ground and everybody can feel like they have an important part. And, and like I said, at the beginning, it’s like, I’m coaching a team, but I never have to make any hard decisions. Yeah. Or it’s happy


Sam Demma (20:11):
Land. Yeah. No disappointing decisions.


Tina Edwards (20:14):
Yeah, absolutely. We’re just here to make everybody’s day. Just a little bit better.


Sam Demma (20:18):
Love that. I love that. And I wanna ask you, so if, if like, if you could try and pinpoint things that teachers did for you growing up that made you happy as a student, that if you can remember, like, what do you think some of those things are that teachers can do to make their students feel good about themselves to help students realize their own potential? Because another educator might be listening and wanting to have a similar impact on their own kids.


Tina Edwards (20:45):
I just think I remember teachers who would know my name and I, they didn’t actually teach me or I, I was in a larger school and, and I just thought, you know, there’s taking a moment to say hello to me, I’m the only person with this name. They are, they’re connecting with me. And I just always thought that was really special. and I, I remember too going on sports trips and thinking this teacher is spending the whole weekend with me instead of at home with their own family. And I knew, and I knew that was something that I wanted to be able to do for other students.


Sam Demma (21:24):
I love that. So the investment of time, and also, so the personal relationship to a point where, you know, teachers go out of their way to remember your name or even like know personal things about you.


Tina Edwards (21:35):
Yeah. Yeah. And, and that’s, that can go such a long way in, in a student’s life. And, and that’s what I really miss the most about COVID is when students are in my, in my classroom, in our school, I kind of have my eyes on them. I know I can see when they’re struggling. I can see when somebody hasn’t eaten a very good breakfast. I can see when somebody’s had a fight at home. I can see when somebody’s struggling academically. But when I had to stay at home, I had no idea what, how my students were doing like really doing, I could, would tell maybe academically how they were doing, but all of those things that I worry about, and I wanna connect with students, I was completely removed from that. And I, I struggled with that.


Sam Demma (22:19):
And I would argue, you know, back to the name example as well, remembering people that remembered your name. I think it just applies to being, like you said, a good human people appreciate when you can address them by their name. I’ve been at the grocery store and I’ll say, hi, and address the person behind the cash by their name. And they’ll look up and be confused and say, do I know you, are you


Tina Edwards (22:42):
Shock me? yeah.


Sam Demma (22:44):
I’m like, no, I just, I just used your name. It’s on your name tag there. And you know, then they end up, you know, bursting out the biggest smile and you end up having a good two minute conversation before you put your groceries in your box and leave. Yeah. And I think when you take interest in other people, it just builds good relationships. Right?


Tina Edwards (23:01):
Absolutely. And, and what, what, just imagine what you can do once you’ve connected with somebody, once you’ve, you’ve been able to have a, a one on one conversation with them, the rest of their day, you just, you don’t know what’s gonna come after that.


Sam Demma (23:16):
Yeah. And you also never know what someone’s carrying, which is why I think kindness is so important, you know, just because you can’t see, it doesn’t mean they aren’t carrying it. And that’s something I always try and remind myself because yeah, we, we, you know, you only see them in the school building and now with COVID, you know, like you’re saying you don’t even see them in the school building, so it’s even, you know, even more important to be you.


Tina Edwards (23:35):
Luckily for us, the COVID like COVID is still here obviously, but we, we have been able to have our extracurricular activities within our school and our clubs. We can have, we, we are cohorted, but not quite as much as we were last year or as strictly, we’ve been able to do some outside whole group activities while mask. So this year’s already better than all of last year put together.


Sam Demma (24:04):
Yeah. Ah, you’re right. That’s and it’s good to see the positives too. even if they’re in a smaller.


Tina Edwards (24:10):
And that’s what, like I said to the, the students last year, we’re not having a pity party here this year. It’s, it’s, it’s different, but we’re gonna make the best of it. And, and through leadership, we, we did bingo virtually we, we did some trivia contests virtually. We did, we did our pep rallies virtually. We, we still wanted to make it, you know, those activities part of our, our school year. Although, you know, they’re not the same this year. We’re already noticing that people have a little bit more of a pep in their step. Mm. They can still have their football games. They can still go to their volleyball tournaments. There’s been a little, so some hiccups along the way, maybe a, a tournament has had to be canceled or a football game, but we’re just moving on. We don’t have time to sit and dwell in the, the negatives, no


Sam Demma (24:56):
Pity party focusing on the positives. Those are two great, no pity partying, no two great phrases and pieces of advice. I’m gonna ask you to put your thinking hat on for a second. And if you could like travel back in time you know, back to the future, but back to the past, actually. Yeah. Yeah. And you could speak to first year, Tina, when you just started teaching, but with all the wisdom and experience that you have now, like if you could walk into your own classroom, you know, that first city that you taught in that was really small, and you could walk into your own C and speak to yourself and give yourself some advice. What are a couple things that you would share?


Tina Edwards (25:32):
Well, I know for sure, I would not focus so much on the academics. Mm. Of course, when you’re coming out of university and you have your teaching degree and you’ve done your student teaching, that’s what it was about. It was about academics and I I’m a teacher and this is what I’m going to teach. Yep. And it really didn’t take me long to realize that there’s so much more to teaching than just the academics. And so I think if I could give myself a little bit of advice, I would just say, let’s not worry about that. Let’s, let’s focus on just the students themselves, the P the academic piece. We’ll talk about that a little bit later. I love, but of course, as a new teacher, you thought it was all about academics.


Sam Demma (26:15):
Yeah. And, and what does focusing on the student look like in the classroom? Is it making time for them to share their stories or like, what do you, what do you think that other time looks like?


Tina Edwards (26:24):
Yeah, just, just connecting and really appreciating where some of these students are coming from. I didn’t know what their home lives were like, and I didn’t even stop to even think about it. I just thought, okay, everybody’s coming into my classroom at the same level. And it, it really didn’t take me too long to realize that yeah, you know what, this is not quite the case. Mm. They’re not coming with the same skillset as the person may be sitting next to them.


Sam Demma (26:52):
Yeah. It’s a really smart reminder. That’s a good piece of advice to share with you, younger self. Awesome. Tina, thank you so much for coming on the show. If an educator listening and feels inspired or just wants to reach out and chat, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?


Tina Edwards (27:09):
My email is probably the best way at work. It’s tina.edwards@horizonsd.ca. And it’s funny cuz when, when you said that if somebody would wanna reach out, I often think, you know, I’m in my 27th year of teaching, but what do I really know? I wonder like what would somebody ask me? I don’t really know, but yeah. I I’m here. I’ll do my best.


Sam Demma (27:35):
That’s called the curse of knowledge. yeah,


Tina Edwards (27:38):
Yeah. Maybe.


Sam Demma (27:39):
But again, Tina, thank you so much for coming on the show. It’s been awesome conversation. Keep up with the great work with school and SASA and I look forward to seeing whatever happens with the conferences and events.


Tina Edwards (27:51):
yeah. I think our, our paths are good across again, Sam.


Sam Demma (27:54):
Awesome. I’ll talk to you soon, Tina.


Tina Edwards (27:56):
Okay. Take care.


Sam Demma (27:58):
And there you have it. Another amazing guest, an amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast asked as always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you wanna meet the guest on today’s episode, if you wanna meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www.highperforming.com and signing up to join the exclusive network, you’ll have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not fill your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tina

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 12, 2021 by Association Director Experiential Learning President Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

Leslie Loewen – Campus Culture Manager at Fresno Unified School District

Leslie Loewen, Campus Culture Director
About Leslie Loewen

Leslie Loewen (@MommaLoew) has been an educator for more than 23 years, serving the students of California’s Central Valley as a teacher, coach, club sponsor, and administrator. She has always been focused on active learning, positive relationship-building, and planting the seeds of knowledge and leadership through student engagement.

As Fresno Unified’s current Campus Culture Manager she strives to engage ALL students in Arts, Activities, and Athletics, through a wide array of opportunities, so that they may connect with an adult champion and learn how to be the best version of themselves. “Every student has an essential purpose, and it is our job to open their eyes to their greatest potential and path to success.”

Connect with Leslie: Email | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

California Association Directors of Activities (CADA)

Fresno Unified School District

Icebreakers & Team Builders to Build Community (August Webinar)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:00):
Welcome back to another episode of the high-performing educator podcast. This is your host and youth speaker Sam Demma. Today’s guest on the show is Leslie Loewen, or as her 75,000 students would call her MommaLowe. Leslie is the campus culture manager at the Fresno unified school district. She’s also a wife and a Momma. She loves her job and family is one of the values that is high on her list, which is why it’s no surprise that even her students refer to her as Momma Lowe. She prides herself in building relationships with kids and providing them with opportunities and experiences that can have a significant impact on their life now, and also a future development. I hope you enjoy this amazing conversation with Leslie and I will see you on the other side.


Sam Demma (01:31):
Leslie, welcome to the high-performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show. Please start by just introducing yourself.


Leslie Loewen (01:38):
Good morning, Sam. It’s awesome to be with you. My name is Leslie Loewen and I am the campus culture manager for Fresno unified school district. This means I’ve been a teacher for 20 plus years and then went into campus culture, which is what we call maybe activities directors at other school sites. She call them campus culture directors because we were more than Reaper chugs and pies in the face. And Julie, from the love belt, you’re too young, but other people know what that means, but we just, we wanna make sure that kids feel a sense of belonging and place and connection to our schools. And we know that that starts with the culture of your campus. And so been doing that now for 15ish of the 20 plus year.


Sam Demma (02:30):
Oh, that’s awesome. I heard someone told me, I think it was a little bird that students sometimes call you momma loew. Is that is a true story?


Leslie Loewen (02:38):
That is my street name. It’s it’s behind me. I don’t know which way to write it. Right. Because some, sometimes the camera’s flip or not. So yeah, you can find me on Instagram and Twitter there. It’s mostly just stuff I retweet about all of our awesome kids in Fresno unified. I’ve got 75,000 kids. That’s it.


Sam Demma (02:56):
That’s it?!


Leslie Loewen (02:57):
I mean, you know, I didn’t birth them all, which was good.


Sam Demma (03:02):
Yeah. Where did the nickname come from?


Leslie Loewen (03:06):
I had a student one time. So every time I would leave the room, which you should never do with children, right? Like that’s the golden rule with never leave the room as a teacher. But I would leave the room cause we, my leadership kids in there and they would sticky bomb my walls and they would put notes and things on there. And one day, one of my students said 2000 kids and counting mama loew the next reality show. And so I giggled cause that’s what I always used to say. They’re my kids. Like you didn’t pick me just like you didn’t pick your biological mother. You’re welcome. And now we’re going to move forward as if your mind, because you are mine. And and so when I got this job, the student was super cute. He crossed it off and put 75,000 kids in counties. So it’s my reality show and I love it. So


Sam Demma (03:57):
Amazing. And so tell me more about your journey and education. Did you know from a young age that you wanted to work with kids specifically in a school setting? Or how did you stumble upon this calling?


Leslie Loewen (04:09):
Well, my parents were both teachers, so the answer was heck now I am not going to be a teacher. My mom taught elementary school and she worked really, really hard and she, she I come from a long line of hand-raisers. So, you know, when there’s something that needs to be done, we’re like, okay, I’ll do it. Okay. I’ll do it. And so she did everything in elementary school. She was the cheer coach when they lost their music teacher, she knew how to play piano. So she, she was a music director. She, you know, my dad was a science teacher in high school. He was a coach. And so I was always on the field with him, with them. January would roll around, he coached baseball. So January would roll around and it was like, okay, dad, we’ll see in a couple of months and you know, we’d have coffee and donuts for all the coaches, all his kids, you know, we have these big camps and that’s just kind of what you did.


Leslie Loewen (05:09):
And I have a degree in dirt now. I know all the dirt was the grand soils and chemistry from Cal poly. I thought I was going to redo baseball fields to make the water drains. So you could play on it faster or, you know, beyond a golf course and make sure that the greens were awesome. And then my sister had her first child and she said, Hey, get your masters and come and take care of drew. And I did. And I hated my masters. So I was like, now what my mom said, why don’t you stop? Just make some extra cash watch drew. And then on the days that you’re not watching drew, just so you know, I taught dance for more than 10 years. And I thought that was, that was different. Turns out it’s, it’s pretty close. You know, you got kids that just want to be the best they can be and find their spark.


Leslie Loewen (06:13):
And I mean, when they do that magical things happen. And so I started sobbing and I thought I could bring my bag of tricks. That’s great. But I’d like to be with these kids more than just today. Like I, I built a relationship today and they’re saying, are you going to be here tomorrow or where, you know, and I did, I didn’t know where I was going to be every day. So my, my mom and dad both said that they saw it. They just didn’t want to push me. I had to see it for myself and turns out I really liked kids. So and I just love connecting with them and showing them their potential and really just kind of teasing that out. Have a little fun.


Sam Demma (07:10):
How do you help us students see that in themselves? What does that look like in the classroom? Cause I think a lot of students, especially at a young age, like high school and middle school, even elementary school they don’t fully have the self-confidence maybe yet at that stage in their life. And I’m sure you’ve had students who started in your classrooms, not that confident and maybe left a whole different person sometimes. And other times you don’t even know until 15 years in the future when they come back and tell you, but how do you think you help students see the potential within themselves and find their spark and chase the things that they love?


Leslie Loewen (07:49):
That’s like, I mean, that’s a great question. I think it comes from listening with everything you have. So you’ve got to be an active listener with your eyes, with your ears, with your body, with, with everything you have. Right. And I didn’t realize that really until you said that. And and I I’m one that kind of tries to connect the dots, right. So I got to be a fifth grade teacher on Friday. Right. So during this whole, you know, COVID stuff, we’re, we’re down teachers and subs and administrators and everything. So even though I worked at the district office, I got to work, I got to be a fifth grade teacher on Friday. You never know what yet. So I go in and I’m talking and I’m laughing and I’m introducing myself and we’re, we’re getting things done. Well, of course we’re behind, already, we’re behind on the list of tasks.


Leslie Loewen (08:44):
Right. And as a sub, I was wanting to get everything done on my list. And so we’re behind. And so I looked at the kids and I said, I need everyone to work diligently right now. And I don’t know if that’s a fifth grade where I don’t know what lexicon that is please. I mean, so I was, and they kind of looked at me and I said, do we know what diligently means? Okay. Let’s think about this. I need you to do what we’re supposed to do in an hour and 30 minutes. And one kid goes, I want, I need to work fast. I said, yes, I need to focus. Yes. I need to not talk. Yes. Okay. All of those things work diligently and I’m talking, just talking to my, my biological kids at home. My, my youngest said the other day, mom, you never talked to us like we were babies.


Leslie Loewen (09:32):
So I think number one, listening with everything active listener, but number two, like treating kids as you want them to be, or as you see them to be like, as they’re grown. I, I spent majority of my teaching time in high school. So when I had my biological children, my two boys I, I wanted to, even as young children, I wanted them to be great high schoolers. I wanted them to be, you know, to talk with adults in a way that was engaging and confident. And so I think so listening and then, you know, talking to kids where you want them to be. And so I, again, I don’t know if diligently as a fifth grade, we’re about that whole class knows the word diligently. I use it several different times. She’s had a lot of fun and they did, they got it done.


Leslie Loewen (10:31):
And they celebrate that life. I would, I would say the third thing is see something, say something applies to things that are dangerous, but also when things are good, I was walking around the classroom and I noticed the two boys in the back that sat in the back and were pretty quiet, always had their tasks done, always had it. I mean, their papers looked really nice. And then they were just quietly working in the back. Right. Maybe they don’t get a lot of attention because they weren’t acting naughty and they weren’t, you know, raising their hand and given all the answers. Well, I just walked back and I said, you know what? I have noticed that every time I walked back here, you’ll have everything done. You’re rock stars. You’re like ninja rock star. So they’re like, you know, and it’s kinda got a little puffed up, you know go see something and say it, you know, tell them when they’re, when you’re in their presence. So I don’t have all the answers. And I think that’s kind of how, how I’ve tried to do my best.


Sam Demma (11:38):
Yeah. I love that. Those are all things that I think can apply even outside classrooms with every day, human beings, friends, family members, right. Treat people the way, you know, they can be hold them to a higher standards. Right. That’s kind what that comes down to. And you know, if they’re doing something well, tell them people sometimes just need a little reassurance. And I think even, especially right now, teachers need some reassurance that the impact they’re having is being felt and being realized. I, I would guess that not only are you responsible for the 75,000 students, but some kids, but you’re probably also responsible for some teachers.


Leslie Loewen (12:16):
We’ve got 10,000 adults that we have fun with. So that is good. You know, I wrote down, I wrote down my phone phone number, you know, for the teachers to call me even, you know, back in the day, my home phone number before we had cell phones, but wrote my phone number down and I said, just call me. And so the teacher actually did call me and say, Hey, did you get to that paper? I said, I am so sorry. I didn’t get to that paper. Like I came in and I said, I did my bucket. Like my, my little bucket that I got to have. And I said, but first let me just tell you, you have great kids. They were amazing. They welcomed me into the room and I could tell over the phone I’m listening. It was the whole south that her countenance changed at first.


Leslie Loewen (13:02):
She was worried that, that she didn’t get everything on her list maybe. Right. I don’t know why she was out. I don’t, you know, I don’t know any of the details, but I know that there was some anxiety. She kind of came in hard, you know, where’s this paper. And I said, you know, Hey, I’m was doing the best we could, but you know, who helped me? I said, these two help me in these two, got their work done. And this one was really awesome. And so I got to share with, with her who made my time, they’re really fun. And and then we have a team back here at my office that just looks to do and looks to stand in the gap. So our office manager, for lack of a better term she, she bosses us all, which is awesome.


Leslie Loewen (13:58):
We need it. She said, Hey, you’re there. Look and see who needs a backpack look and see who needs a backpack and school supplies look and see who needs anything. And so I kinda walked, you know, as I walked around, I looked, you didn’t have one hanging or maybe the one that was hanging was a little scroungy. And so I suddenly up two or three backpacks that we need, but they didn’t have headsets, all of them. And again, I don’t know why, and they’re supposed to, but I’m not whatever. And so today I’m excited. She was put on my calendar, we’re going over and we’re bringing in headsets and backpacks and, and she said, you know, and I’m going to wait for you. I thought you might want to go. Yeah. I want to go see our kids, you know, and take care of them and just say, thanks for my fun day on Friday.


Leslie Loewen (14:57):
And here’s this, we’re going to give it to your teacher. And they’re not, I mean, they’re good backpacks, right? They’re like chance for backpacks, they’re turtle headsets. So, you know, like they’re the gamer headset, but I mean, I made sure now they are turquoise, but those are the only ones that he got, but, you know, they’re good stuff for kids. And, and I think seeing where you can plug in and just do whatever you can, it doesn’t, they keep me grounded here on like, you’re always just looking. You’re always looking for ways that we can take care of our kids and maybe providing them an opportunity for something new.


Sam Demma (15:38):
I love that. It sounds like you also intentionally focus on the positive side of things, always because, you know, when you were explaining to me about your time in the classroom with the fifth graders, every example you gave me was a positive one. You know, you said there was two kids in the back who did really well. It was kids who helped me, kids who yelled out, you have to work fast, you have to work diligently well in every classroom. There might also be someone who’s a little more difficult to work with, or a student who interrupts or a, and none of those things are inherently bad, but you made a point of not mentioning any of them. And I’m curious to know if you have a belief as an educator in person to try and focus on the positive things in life and how you pass that along to other teachers and kids.


Leslie Loewen (16:21):
Well I did have one that was trying to act out and be naughty. She was flinging her hair bands and a little colored hair bands. So the first one, you know, flung and the kids are giggling and everything. I just picked it up and I just put on my wrist, like girls do that put on my wrist. Right. That’s why your hair tie goes. And I didn’t say anything. And I just said, Hey, let’s, you know, we’re back to work. Are you almost done five minutes left? You know? Cause if I focus on that, not focusing on the other 20 plus kids, I don’t even know. I didn’t, I didn’t count them. There were a lot on the point, right on the other kids that are doing the right thing. If I get upset about that, I mean, I don’t know why I, this is my first day it’s in the first point. If I focus on that, then I don’t know what happens. So I just grabbed it, put on my wrist a couple minutes later, I flicked another one at stuck on the ceiling. I grabbed a yard stick, I flung it off and I grabbed it like snagged it, you know, they’re not my wrists. Look back now. I got to, so I walked by a little later and, and she just happens to fling another one. I snag it out of the air. Like I, you know,


Leslie Loewen (17:45):
I put it on my wrist and you know, there’s, there’s this there’s that, but I’m still focused on, Hey, we got two minutes left or a member here’s the change and recess is coming. And you know, I’m just it’s. And one of the, one of the students sitting in the middle looks to me and says, how tall are you? 5, 6, 5, 7. I don’t know, depends on if I’m wearing Chacha heels, I get goals and goes, you look like a basketball player. And I’m like, thanks, dude. I’m going to take that as a compliment. I’m like, all right. So, I mean, I think that was his way of reaffirming in me that I didn’t have that that was going to happen. Right. I could have written a detention slip, you know? But I do choose because again, there’s one and if I go back or when I go back you know, could I have a conversation with that student probably, but it’s going to be more if I bring back, right. I ended up walking out with those all on my wrist because I pay attention because it wasn’t important that wasn’t important. And so, you know, when I take those back and I put him in and talk him in, in her desk for her and, you know, I don’t know. I think that says more then any words could.


Sam Demma (19:24):
Yeah, I totally agree. I love it. I just wanted to ask you about that because it’s a, I think it’s an important thing, not only for educators, but for everyday people, you know, you can focus on negative things and it’ll bleed into the rest of your life, or you can try and see the good in other people in another situations and it’ll bleed into your life as well. And you’ll have a great one. And I think that goes back to how you bring the most out of kids, right? You know, maybe the next conversation you have is one where you have a heart to heart where it’s explained to this young person, I see you up here. Like, I see you doing this. I see you doing that. You know yes, you have good flicking skills, but, you know, save that energy for other tasks. It could be something that changes that young person’s life or perspective forever as opposed to a detention slip, like you were saying when you were first starting in teaching knowing what you know now, if you could like transport back in time to that first year, Leslie, and give yourself some advice, like, what would you say, or what would you share with your younger self?


Leslie Loewen (20:39):
I don’t know that I would do anything different. So not that I was perfect, but the things that were around me, the people that were around me and maybe, I guess what I would say to new administrators who were helping their new teachers, surround your new teachers with people who I can show them the way can be their mentor. They’re they’re not going to be perfect either, but you know, my, my first year I did everything I just wanted to be and do. And so I just said yes to everything I, I taught I have to even count them up five different classes. I was on a cart for two classes. I took on learning the AP chem curriculum. I coached the dance team. I coached the stomp team. I had ski and snowboard club. I was assistant activities.


Leslie Loewen (21:47):
I had an orange chair in my room that I took naps in because I, I was 30 minutes from home, newly married. And my husband did say like, I want you at home when you’re home. So you can’t bring homework home. My parents were both teachers. I mentioned that, right? Like they brought homework home. They brought grading home. They brought this home and my husband had grew up that way. And he said, when you’re home, I need you home. So you gotta figure out your work life to, to not bring that homework home. So, you know, when you’re coaching, you, you realize like you can’t have, I was teaching science. I can’t, you have to grade in the class, you have to grade in the moment. You can’t just save it all for later. Cause there isn’t a later, because after school there’s coaching and after coaching there’s clubs and after clubs, there’s go home, make dinner, be a wife and figure that whole thing out.


Leslie Loewen (22:46):
Right? Like, so there’s not time later. So I, I started paring down the assignments. Like I never wanted to give busy work. I always wanted to teach to mastery. And if the students could demonstrate that they understood, like I’m doing my job, I’m teaching teach, learn, you know, learn, get excited. So how do you grade that? Well, I mean, it’s, it’s a challenge, but I did a lot of checking for understanding before that was even a pool term. Right. Like I, I just checked in with my kids a lot. I had them present to me. I’d have them teach to me, teach to me this or reteach this. Like I would, that was the worst unit. Like, or that was the worst lecture I’ve ever given. You, you come up here and teach that like, you can do a better than me and then I’d go and I’d sit in their desk.


Leslie Loewen (23:39):
And I take a guy to take notes on this, like, and it would empower the kids that they were a part of the, and then they got to demonstrate to me that they understood. And when they did then yeah, we do quizzes and we do things. And if it goes, can I take that again? Right? Sure. I mean, it’s not, I get two overs. I put out a bad email with, you know, a grammar mistake will not usually cause I am the grammar police. I did. I did that. I, some kids when we worked on our grammar assignments. So but like if I have some mistakes in there, if I do a wrong date or I mean, who, who fails me and sends it back and says, Nope, I’m not coming to your meeting. That was the worst, you know, I’ve ever seen in my life.


Leslie Loewen (24:27):
Like, it doesn’t happen like that. So why are we doing that to kids? So sure. You can take that again. What parts are you struggling with? Let me help you figure this out. Let’s figure it out together. You know, did your neighbor have, you know, get it right. Maybe they can teach you if you didn’t learn it. For me, I’m still giving grades. Like I still like, and doing homework is important. Like building that muscle, like I still, but I tell the kids why that’s important because building that muscle is important and right. You, you, I can’t coach you in the game. You’re not listening. That’s what I got from my dad, the coach, right? I can’t teach you something in the game. You’re not learning in the game. You’re executing. So I can’t teach you on the test. You have to practice. I know it before you go in.


Leslie Loewen (25:17):
And that’s where those pre tests, those, that homework, if you don’t ever do your homework, I don’t know where you are. I can’t help you. And so I think taking that tactic for me as a newer teacher and trying to figure out ways to make meaningful lessons that I, that I only, I only give you what I really want you to do. There’s not busy work in my classes. And even in leadership, right? Like I reminded students that we gotta do the standards in the stuff like we have stuff to do. I know we got stuff to do. We got rallies to put on and we’ve got this, but you’re learning communication when we’re, when we’re working on the rally, you’re, you’re learning interpersonal skills. When we’re, we’re hashing these ideas out, you’re learning how to present and, and do governance when we’re asking our school for their opinions. And when you go on the bulletin, I want you to know that you’re, you’re doing all those, you’re learning leadership skills in the stuff. One of the things that, that I started saying to the students is like teamwork happens when real work happens. A lot of people want to do teamwork or team building. I’m doing a whole thing today, Kat on team building. But I’m going to tell them to teamwork happens when real work happens, do something real. And you’ll see how your team executes.


Leslie Loewen (26:45):
You can work on yourself and you can work all your tools and DQ, wind up all your resources. But the team work happens when you’re actually doing work as a team. And you figure out if you’re an effective team or if you’re a hot mess pretty quickly. And then you go back and regroup. Again, I think that comes back from my, from of the coaching, right? Like after the game you sit down and you talk, can you, okay, let’s talk about this. It’s like, yeah, clearly we weren’t doing a good job, you know, with pitching or with our fielding or we, you know, like what can we do? How can we get better? You know, where was the, and so even after like those big events in leadership, let’s okay, we’re coming back to work. We’re going to have an exhausting feedback session where we just got to celebrate the wins because we’re always hard, hardest on ourselves. Go celebrate the wins, but then we’ve got to go, okay. Like what would be the small things that we could do that would make a big impact later? Yeah.


Sam Demma (27:51):
All right. I love that. That’s so awesome. I hope the name of your talk is the teamwork happens when you do real work. That’s like a, some leg drop line right there. This is awesome. You’ve raised so many good points. Thank you so much, Leslie, for coming on the show and spending half, half an hour of your day sharing some of your experiences, your own principles and values as a educator. If someone is listening to this right now and has been inspired by the conversation, what would be the most efficient way for them to get a hold of you? If they want to ask a question or send you some love?


Leslie Loewen (28:27):
Well, you can, you can tag me on Instagram at Twitter @MommaLoew it’s spelled weird cause I’m a littleweird. But also they can send me an email to my work account. This is, this is work and it’s first name dot last name, Leslie.lowen@fresnounified.org. Just shoot me an email and say, Hey, you know, HELP, and I’ll help where I can.


Sam Demma (29:03):
Cool. Awesome, Leslie again, thank you so much. This has been a pleasure. Enjoy the rest of your day and we’ll talk soon and there you have it. Another amazing guest and amazing interview on the high performing educator podcast. As always, if you enjoy these episodes, please consider leaving a rating and review. So other educators like yourself can find this content and benefit from it. And here’s an exclusive opportunity that I mentioned at the start of the show. If you want to meet the guest on today’s episode, if you want to meet any of the guests that we have interviewed, consider going to www dot high-performing educator.com and signing up to join the exclusive network. You have access to networking events throughout 2021 and other special opportunities. And I promise I will not feel your inbox. Talk to you soon. I’ll see you on the next episode.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

December 10, 2021 by Student Activity Director Student Leadership Student Success Teachers 0

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