Dr. Kate Sievers — Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100

Dr. Kate Sievers — Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100
About Dr. Kate Sievers

Dr. Kate Sievers is the Assistant Superintendent of Curriculum and Instruction, Technology, and Grants at Jersey Community Unit School District 100. With 17 years of experience in administration and 12 years as a middle and high school teacher, she has dedicated her career to improving education and supporting students, educators, and families.

Dr. Sievers is passionate about building strong relationships within schools because she believes connections between people are essential for a positive learning environment. In today’s world, where social media and societal pressures can create division, she strives to bring people together instead of pushing them apart. She works to create a school culture that values respect, collaboration, and innovation, ensuring that every student and teacher feels supported and empowered to succeed.

Kate takes the time to listen to teachers and administrators, valuing their input as she makes decisions that always prioritize the needs of students. She is deeply passionate about curriculum and goes above and beyond to find high-quality resources at all levels that enhance learning and help students achieve and show progress. Additionally, she actively writes grants to secure funding that benefits students, ensuring they receive extra support and enrichment opportunities.

Understanding the importance of social-emotional learning (SEL), Kate ensures that all employees have the SEL resources they need while also ensuring students have the necessary support. Through her leadership, she continues to improve education by integrating technology, enhancing curriculum, and securing vital resources. Her commitment to education is driven by a desire to make schools places where everyone feels valued, supported, and inspired to learn and grow.

Connect with Dr. Kate Sievers: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Jersey Community Unit School District 100

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by Dr. Kate Sievers.

Dr. Kate Sievers
Good morning.

Sam Demma
How are you?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’m well, I’m well.

Sam Demma
Dr. Kate brings 29 years of educational expertise to her role as administrative superintendent of curriculum and instruction, technology and grants at the Jersey Community Unit School District 100. Combining 17 years of administration with 12 years of classroom teaching experience, she champions relationship building as the foundation for effective learning environments. Her leadership philosophy centers on bringing people together in an

Sam Demma
increasingly divided world, actively listening to stakeholders while prioritizing student needs through curriculum development, grant writing, and comprehensive social emotional support systems for both students and staff. Dr. Kate, thank you so much for coming on the show here this morning.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You’re welcome. I’m glad to be here. Glad to join this morning.

Sam Demma
How did you get involved in, in education?

Dr. Kate Sievers
For me, Sam, it was, um, through coaching. I, my husband and I coached, uh, some elementary basketball teams for a while. And, um, as we grew, we went from elementary to high school and found that our time with the kids, and we didn’t have kids at the time, we were just newly married,

Dr. Kate Sievers
and found that we really enjoyed being with the kids and the families. And so through that love, I got to know the superintendent through the school district that we’re recoached. And I was in the banking industry at the time

Dr. Kate Sievers
and my job was getting located an hour away from our home. And so through that, I’m like, okay, maybe this is a change for me that maybe something else in my life needs to be happening. And so the superintendent approached me and said, hey, would you be interested in doing a long-term sub

Dr. Kate Sievers
for us if that becomes available? And so knowing that my job was changing and I was gonna be unemployed for a little bit and I said, yeah, possibly. So I did that long-term sub and I fell off and I said, yeah, possibly. So I did that long term sub and I fell off and I’ve never looked back. And so since then, 19, that was in 1994, I went back to school

Dr. Kate Sievers
and got my elementary and high school, high school, but it’s two different, way different elementary technology and high school business and taught high school business a little bit. And then I ended up with a K-8 computer position. And that’s when we didn’t even have internet then. And so that was a computer, which you don’t even know. So it was fun. So that’s kind of how I rolled into education. And it’s just been a great, great journey for me.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about coaching basketball. Where did that originate or where did that passion start from?

Dr. Kate Sievers
My husband and I both have been coaches for a long time. He’s been a softball coach for a long time. And when the basketball, I, my love of basketball, we both played basketball in high school. And basketball is kind of my go-to sport. A lot of people have a go-to something. Basketball is my go-to sport.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And loved it in elementary high school. We had some pretty good girls teams at the time that I was on. And just loved being part of the team, part of the culture. And not just for me, but that’s where I’ve learned, you know, I got to know still best friends today. And some great people that mentors and coaches who help make me who I am. And so knowing that that’s, you have such an impact

Dr. Kate Sievers
on a person through that coaching style and what you do as a coach really kind of brought me to that wanting to be a coach and wanting to be a mentor for the students and kids. And so that’s kind of where we both went, he and I. And so since then we coached high school basketball girls for, I want to say eight years, and then stopped to have our family.

Dr. Kate Sievers
We had already had one child and had another one on the way, and it was really becoming difficult. It’s just hard to manage a young family and do all of the running. And so we put a halt on that.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And then he came back years later as a softball coach, just within the last 10 years. And I’ve coached some state level softball teams in our area. So it’s been fun.

Sam Demma
I noticed when you joined the interview today on Zoom, right beside your name said mentor in brackets. Are you still mentoring people in different capacities to this day? And if so, what does that look like for you?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I am. So through the Illinois Principal Association, I am a principal mentor. The expertise, I’ve been a high school principal, I’ve been an assistant principal, I’ve been a superintendent of a smaller school district, and I’m in a larger school district now. And I felt that that expertise, being a new principal, there’s a lot of things that you don’t know, you don’t know.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You just don’t know what you don’t know. And so a friend of mine was being, she was a mentor and I believe still is a mentor. And she’s like, hey, I think you’d be great in this position, you know, this is what we do. And so through her, I was able to become a mentor

Dr. Kate Sievers
through the Illinois Principal Association and have done that. This is my second year and it has been very fulfilling for me. So I hope the people that I’m mentoring are getting just as much out of it as I am,

Dr. Kate Sievers
because again, it is just a way to give back and help those just starting out, just fresh out of the gate. And you don’t, you know, education’s hard and I feel it is becoming harder and harder each year to be an educator. Society just doesn’t have the respect for education that it had before, which makes me sad. And so trying to get some of that respect back and at the same time keeping some really good people in some positions of where they can really impact kids and staff.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And you want to keep those really good people in those positions to bring that and get that respect back to education again.

Sam Demma
When you think of all the questions from principals that you mentor through the Illinois Principal Association, are there any that come up so often among different principals that a principal listening to this might be struggling with themselves? And if so, what are those questions and what are some of the things you typically would share?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’ve only been a mentor the last two years and what’s happened in education as teacher turnover is high right now. And when I was hired in as a teacher 29 years ago, you had, and I’m not exaggerating, you had in a smaller school district, we had at least 30 applicants for a position. And now we’re lucky to get two really highly qualified

Dr. Kate Sievers
applicants for a position in our area, region. And that’s different, you know, regionally it’s different, you know, urban versus rural and we’re considered rural. And so the questions I get mainly recently has been, how do I keep my teachers? How do we keep them to want to stay here, to be at our school? Because sometimes if you’re in a rural area, the urban areas pay a little bit more

Dr. Kate Sievers
and have a little bit more benefits and whatnot to offer. And so how do we keep them there? And I’m gonna go back to what I tell everybody, relationships, everything goes back to, all roads leads back to relationships, whether it’s personal, professional, wherever. If they feel valued and are respected where they

Dr. Kate Sievers
work and want to go there every day, they’re going to think twice about maybe going to another school district or changing professions because I’ve had some teachers who have left. Unfortunately, went to larger corporations because they can work from home, you know, and that society has changed that and what that looks like from many years ago. And so being able to retain our teachers and keep them there because once you get a teacher in the door, you know, you can train them, you know, and it takes a lot with the training and to get them to show the different

Dr. Kate Sievers
curriculums and the platforms that we use. So you want to keep those teachers. And at the same time, though, you want to grow them as professionals. And so if you’re valuing them and you’re respecting them and you’re developing those appropriate relationships with them professionally and helping them grow, why would they wanna leave? So that’s what I have heard over and over and over again.

Dr. Kate Sievers
So we’re hoping to combat that through this relationship building and we’re trying really hard, our best, especially here at Jersey 100 to do that.

Sam Demma
When I visited the school, I felt like the staff were so engaged and involved and welcoming. I had multiple conversations with teachers as well. So whatever the work that you are all doing, I think it’s definitely having an impact

Sam Demma
on how guests feel received in the school building. So keep it up.

Dr. Kate Sievers
That’s awesome. That’s awesome. And it’s just not me. I mean, you have to have a team of people willing to… One person can’t do it. And so, you know, people to build that team of people to say, Hey, we’re committed to, you know, we want the best of the best here at Jersey 100. So what does that look like? How do we do that? And I have a really good team to work with. So I love coming to school and I love working with them. So hopefully that can continue for a while.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you really enjoy serving and supporting along with a team of people. It sounds like that was a similarity when you were coaching in basketball and teaching and now mentoring. Do you think there are some similarities between coaching

Sam Demma
young people and teaching young people? And if so, what are some of those things?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I do. And sometimes coaching and mentoring are one in the same. I don’t know that you can use them to replace one another, but when you’re talking about young kids and you’re talking about young teachers, everybody wants boundaries, okay? And I feel sometimes our society has just kind of left

Dr. Kate Sievers
boundaries off to the wayside. And when I mean boundaries, I’m not talking strict boundaries, but that’s where you earn that respect. And this is what I need you to do as a player. And this is what I need you to do as a teacher.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And as long as they have that relationship with you and they want to perform for you, whether you’re a coach or whether you’re a principal, it comes down to those relationships over and over and over. And I feel that if they continue to want to perform for you whatever position they’re in, whether they’re a coach, whether a player, whether a teacher,

Dr. Kate Sievers
you’re gonna get the best of what you can out of that person. And that’s what you want. That’s what they want. They want to do their best. Nobody wants to do poorly.

Dr. Kate Sievers
They want to do their best. And so trying to pull that best out of them and what that looks like and them seeing the fruition once they do that and show their best and do their best and what that looks like for them, that’s awesome to see that light pop on when that does happen. And the great feeling that they get because you just relish in them feeling good about themselves and what they’ve done.

Sam Demma
And whether it’s mentoring, coaching, or any age, you mentioned that it really all comes back to relationships. When you think about building relationships, let’s say it’s a classroom teacher listening to this conversation and they want to build a better relationship with their students. What do you think are some of the things they could do to build a better relationship with their own students?

Dr. Kate Sievers
I think they just have to get to know them. And I’m going to use you and your friend. You knew your friend like tacos, right? You knew what to cheer them up and he and his wife or partner. And so I feel that if I’m a teacher and I really want to make the most impact and get to know my kids on a relationship level, I really just need to get to know them. I need to know

Dr. Kate Sievers
anything and everything about them that they’re willing to share. And again, on that professional level and those kids that come in with, a lot of our kids are walking in the door with some trauma, Sam, and I know you know that. And how can we help them make their time at school the best possible for them to be there

Dr. Kate Sievers
and to really help and grow them as an individual, not just as a student, I’m talking about as a rounded individual. And then walk out the door with a smile on their face and trying to help them the best we can. But you’re not going to get that unless you really understand who that kid is. Whether you’ve got 10 kids in your class or you’ve got 30 kids in your class.

Dr. Kate Sievers
Does it take time? Does it take effort? Absolutely, it does. And a lot of intentionality. And so through that, I feel that teachers are going to have, they’re going to be able to get as much as they can out of that student and really help that student grow. Again, not just academically, but you know, all in all aspects of their life. Because if you’re making them feel and you’re building them up, not just academically, but in other aspects of their life, they’re going to want to do well and continue to do well, especially when they’re at school or when they’re with you. And so as much as that impact, that relationship impact,

Dr. Kate Sievers
I just don’t know that we could ever put a number on it. I don’t think we can ever put. And I know people have, they’ve done studies on this way, more smart people than me, but it’s just really hard to see unless you’re in that classroom,

Dr. Kate Sievers
how much time and effort it really takes to get to know a child.

Sam Demma
I think about the educators, coaches, caring adults in my life who’ve made a significant impact. And it’s what you’re saying. It’s really the people who got to know me so well on a personal and professional, well more so a professional level, but with some personal details about who I was and what I cared about. And I had a teacher who would teach a lesson and knew the students

Sam Demma
in the class so well that after he finished the lesson, he would point to a couple of us and say, Hey Sam, because you’re passionate about sports, this lesson for you means this. And Olivia, I know you love movies. So for you, the context of this lesson is this. And it was like light bulbs are just going off in kids heads all day long. Um, as a result of that extra step, you know?

Dr. Kate Sievers
Absolutely. Yeah, yeah. And so for any young teachers coming in, wanting to know how to do that, I think there’s just some great books out there. And I’m not gonna say any or do any plugs off of this at this point in time,

Dr. Kate Sievers
but there are a lot of resources out there for you to really understand kids and trauma and what they’re bringing to your classroom. And I feel as a new teacher and coming into just a different time in our lives, understanding those resources and if kids come up

Dr. Kate Sievers
with a certain trauma, what kind of resources you can help them with and it doesn’t have you know it’s a private conversation between you that you know that student and hey I know this is going on in your life and I can maybe help you with these resources or and just they might make might not take advantage of it but just knowing that you cared enough to help them or offer some help to them goes a long way too.

Dr. Kate Sievers
I feel sometimes we just get too busy and with our, you know, trying to get everything done in our classrooms and whatnot, and we leave that relationship on the side. And I feel that that is just not the best thing for kids.

Sam Demma
You mentioned not giving any plugs, though I will ask, are there any resources or people or things that have been foundational in how you think about education and building relationships? There, I will just say, through our regional office here, in Illinois, we have regional

Dr. Kate Sievers
offices that provide professional development. And you know, it’s speakers like yourself, I’m going to say you’re like yourself, Sam, who come and we’ve listened to and we’ve heard stories and they bring so many ideas to us to say, okay, this is what happened to me, this is my personal story and this is how they helped me. And as educators, we hear that and we’re like, oh, and the light bulb goes on, I can maybe do that for somebody. I feel when we have, when we listen to others and their stories, your personal stories, because a lot of it,

Dr. Kate Sievers
I’m being very honest with you, Sam, are through personal stories. When they share those with us, and they give us real life examples of how somebody helped them or how they were able to get out of a trauma traumatic situation and move on to get through, push through that. That only helps us as educators to give us more tools in our toolbox to say, okay, so this helped Sam Demmer, this helped this, this one. And, and we can say, you know, Henry or whoever, um, this is, this is something that I think would help you, you know, in, in taking those again, having more tools in our toolbox to be able to help those kids

Dr. Kate Sievers
that, um, that do walk in with a little bit of luggage in their backpack. So to say,

Sam Demma
Yeah, I love it. Thank you for sharing and taking the time to speak about your own journey into education, some of the connections to coaching and mentorship, your role with the Illinois Principal Association, talking about some of the challenges with teacher turnover and how the district is trying to address those and the importance of relationships.

Sam Demma
I’m curious, what are you most excited about in education right now as we wrap up the conversation?

Dr. Kate Sievers
With me in education, education just looks a little bit different than what, and I’ll say looking in, you think education looks the same as what it did 50 years ago, 100 years ago. I feel when you walk in our doors, even though we’re still segmented in classrooms, our learning is happening in a way more different structure, at least here at Jersey 100.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You know, we have more hands-on, more STEM classes, more. And I feel that I had a younger brother who loved to work with his hands and mess with motors and do all kinds of, if it was outside, he was outside and didn’t like the workbook, the textbook and all the you know, the regular. And I look at all

Dr. Kate Sievers
of the STEM and the maker spaces and the automotive and the, and the woodworking and the construction that we’re able to offer. And for him, he would have just flourished in that type of environment. And so I feel schools are getting more and more like that. Of course, we have to have our academics, our math,

Dr. Kate Sievers
and our reading, but we’re able then to interweave some of these other types of learning into our educational arena to where these kids come in excited. And I’m looking at some of our high school kids right now who are, I’m going to say,

Dr. Kate Sievers
my trade kids who are going to be your welders and your automotive people and some of your engineers, but they are, they are just flourishing in our, I’ll call it our career technical education wing. And without that, I feel that they, like my younger brother, were like, just like school was hard, I didn that they, like my younger brother,

Dr. Kate Sievers
would like, just like school was hard. I didn’t want to go to school. You know, that’s not something that they enjoyed at all, or he enjoyed at all. And I see these kids coming into school, not missing school and wanting to really, really do well.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so I feel that in education now, especially here at Jersey 100, we’re able to really reach those kids and to get those kids a more foundation. So when they walk out in high school, they know what they want to do by the time they graduate.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so for me here at Jersey 100, I’m like super pumped about that because I will say 98% of my kids, and we’re striving for 100% of our kids, walk out the door at high school knowing what they’re gonna do.

Dr. Kate Sievers
And so, and before five or six years ago, that wasn’t the case.

Sam Demma
That’s amazing testimony to the work that everyone’s doing in the system. It’s so great to hear about it. I look forward to continuing to stay in touch and follow the journey. And thank you again, Dr. Kate,

Sam Demma
for taking the time to come on the show here today. It’s been a real pleasure having a conversation with you.

Dr. Kate Sievers
You’re welcome, Sam. Thanks for having me.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Dr. Kate Sievers

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June 12, 2025 by Education Educator Student Success Superintendent 0

Daniel Klapper — Vice President of Student Services at Western USC

Daniel Klapper — Vice President of Student Services at Western USC
About Daniel Klapper

Daniel Klapper is the USC’s Vice President of Student Services. In this role, he works with all USC-led services to provide the best experience and support to Western Undergraduate Students. 

He is responsible for the oversight of the PurpleCare Trust, Clubs System, Peer Support Centre, Food Support, the USC’s new professional development program, as well as to support the good governance of the University Students’ Council. 

Connect with Daniel Klapper: Email | Instagram | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Western USC

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Daniel Klapper. Daniel serves as the Vice President of Student Services for the University Students Council of Western Ontario, where he oversees a comprehensive network of support systems designed to enhance the Western undergraduate Student Experience. His responsibilities span crucial student resources, including the Purple Care Trust, Club System, Peer Support Center, food support initiatives, while also driving the USC’s new professional development program. Beyond direct service delivery, Daniel plays a key role in maintaining good governance practices within the USC, ensuring the organization remains responsive to student needs.

Sam Demma
Daniel, thank you so much for taking some time during this busy season to come on the podcast.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. Super excited.

Sam Demma
Introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are and how you got into the work you’re doing today with the USC.

Daniel Klapper
Sure, sure. So I guess beyond the nice introduction you had there, obviously my name is Daniel. I’m the Vice President of Student Services. But beyond that, I’m an ex-Western student as well. So I graduated last year. But this year has been super exciting for me because obviously working for the USC has been such an amazing privilege and such a unique experience as well. So super excited to kind of dive into some of that and tell you about a bit of the experiences and some of the programs that we’re working on as well. Speaking of programs, you oversee so many different programs with the USC.

Sam Demma
Tell me about some of them. Um, and any of your, uh, not that you have favorites, but any of the ones that you’re very passionate about. Yeah, definitely. I mean, the student services portfolio is unique because, um, it encapsulates so much.

Daniel Klapper
So whereas other portfolios, they have advocacy initiatives and they cover advocacy kind of broadly. The student services portfolio, um, is a little bit of everything. And I guess for background, for most people who don’t know much about the USC, it hasn’t always been like this.

Daniel Klapper
So the student services role, this is the second year that it’s actually being conducted like this before the USC operated with a vice president of governance and finance. And there were all of these little portfolios that kind of were spread across the organization, either under programming or under some advocacy initiatives. The club system was kind of here and there, a little bit of everywhere. And then they kind of realized, they’re kind of neglecting all of these portfolios because they get overshadowed by the big things like concerts, orientation week, the massive programming that the university puts on. And then also getting overshadowed by like the year over year advocacy initiatives that the USC does. And so what they did was they transitioned the role from a finance role where a student would kind of oversee the budgets. And then we obviously, we have full-time staff who deal with all the accounting. So they moved that and they kind of pooled all of the services and initiatives together and threw them under one portfolio and that becoming the student services portfolio. So that’s kind of how we came to be. Obviously, like you said, we have food support, peer support, the new professional development portfolio, which has been kind of like a majority of what I’ve been working on this year is kind of getting that up and running. That’s a little bit of a passion project of mine but we also have things like Pride USC, grants and recognition which are super important so that that touches on like the scholarships and then the LGBTQ support as well from from the western side but kind of a lot of portfolios and then the REACH program as well, which technically isn’t a service, but touches on that as well. And that one’s near and dear to my heart because I actually got my start in the USC in second year by volunteering for that program.

Daniel Klapper
So kind of a full circle moment is it’s the first thing I started with. And actually when my contract ends this year, it’ll be the last program that I actually hold. So kind of a fun full circle.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about the professional development portfolio that you’ve been spending a lot of time working on.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah. So the professional development portfolio came from, uh, our president currently Emily Klagen. So she, when she was running her, her campaign, uh, she was pretty heavy on increasing the professional development support that undergraduate students have access to. Um. And so when I was hired, we started looking to, how can we make the university experience enjoyable beyond simply hosting concerts and offering services to students? Like, what are they lacking? And what we kind of figured is students need jobs. They need the connections. They need the network that at this point, everyone knows how hard it is right now to get internships and get jobs, and to kind of get that extra experience beyond your education. And the professional development portfolio was the USC solution to that.

Daniel Klapper
So we host events like the peer AI learning sessions, which are essentially students teaching other students from various faculties how to use artificial intelligence to increase their literacy with AI and kind of just overall level the playing field when it comes to the use of artificial intelligence in classrooms. We also have something coming up called the Professional Development Gala, where we get a bunch of professionals from various industries. So we’ve got some lawyers, some consultants, some publishers, doctors, and we get them all in the same room. And we’re essentially extending the USC’s alumni to the undergraduate student body. Because, yeah, that’s one of the nice things that the USC has is they have a really, like extensive, you like alumni network. So there’s hundreds of people who have worked for the USC over the last 40 so years. And they’re all really connected and they always come back and they always participate in events.

Daniel Klapper
But usually it’s just the executives who have access to those individuals, right? Like there’s some really great people. So we wanted to kind of extend that network to students this year and make sure that they have an opportunity to chat with people and see what’s out there. Kind of same that we have this year.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome, man. I think about some of the most meaningful experiences I had in school and it wasn’t so much the lessons learned in the classroom, although those are also very important. It was those extended opportunities where I was able to ask questions. I was very curious about to industry professionals or when people took the time to provide me with unique opportunities that really helped me develop my soft skills. It sounds like the professional development portfolio really does that. I know that REACH also does that for a different subset of students.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about that program and why you’re so passionate about it.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, so the REACH program is similar. I guess you could consider it professional development for grade seven and eight. So it’s been around for a while, actually. So it started in 2004. This is like the history of the REACH program here as a history major. But so started in 2004, and they called it the choose your own adventure game. And so the idea was, you get 250 or 300 grade seven and eight students, and they come onto campus and they do a choose your own adventure, where you pick different classes. And by the end of the weekend, you kind of see where your career is heading based off of the decisions that you made throughout the weekend. Funnily enough, we got or we as in the USC was actually sued because choose your own adventure is a trademark for that book that they made. So they actually, in like the mid 2000s, they were sued for using the name, Choose Your Own Adventure, and they swapped it over to the early outreach program. So that’s kind of how that name came about. The idea is kind of similar, same idea, but we’ve kind of switched it over. So essentially we take 300 students from various grade schools from across the London Middlesex community. We try to pick the schools that are feeder schools into the high schools that have the lowest dropout rates or the highest dropout rates, sorry. And the idea is to bring them on campus. They stay at Ontario Hall, which is one of the nicest residents on campus. They eat there. They have parties in the Wave, which is our restaurant and bar on campus. Obviously everything’s shut down, no alcohol or anything like that, but they have the opportunity to kind of like hang out in the same spaces that undergraduate students do. And they really connect with it. And they have the opportunity to talk to university students. Over 80 volunteers come out and really just have a good time.

Daniel Klapper
And then on top of that, they get to hang out with some professors. They go to mock classes. So they’ll go to anthropology class, and like, dust things off of dinosaur bones or make slime in the chemistry lab. So the opportunities there are kind of endless. But the real goal is that they go into high school the year after. And that weekend long experience really has a profound impact on them. And they leave thinking like, hey, like university is something that I’m capable of doing. It’s something that it’s accessible to me. And it’s not just for students who have 100% in all their classes. And it’s not just for students who come from wealthy families, like there’s opportunity for financial aid.

Daniel Klapper
We teach them how to write a resume so that they can get jobs. Really anything that’s just going to set their mind in the right track so that when they do get to high school, they start thinking about like, how can I improve my grades? How can I improve my extracurriculars?

Daniel Klapper
And like I’m setting a goal for myself that Western is where I want to go. And we’ve had a pretty good, like proven track record. And we have some students now who volunteer for the program who actually attended the program when they were in grade seven and eight and actually went to Western because of the impact that the program had on them. So has a special place in my heart because of great relationships, but also seen how it affects students that young really how much of a positive impact it has on them.

Sam Demma
I always tell people I think the most important gift you can give a young person is belief in themselves. And I think it’s any human being, not just young people, but when you are exposed to that at a much younger age, it can change the course of your entire life. It sounds like that is the impact that the program is having, and I hope it continues long after you transition as well.

Daniel Klapper
And hopefully no one gets sued.

Daniel Klapper
We’ve, we’ve upped the, uh, the parameters for like making sure it’s all, all set in stone and everything we’ve, we’ve gone to the point now, post COVID where we’re running the same program year over year, it just gets better and better. So it’s in a good spot and hopefully it can continue. I’m sure I’ll come back to volunteer even when I’m back in my master’s.

Sam Demma
You work in student services. You support the diverse needs of the entire population across the campus. How do you determine what students need? There’s a lot of schools that have students and they wanna figure out out what do we, what clubs do we start? What, what services do we promote and provide? How have you guys kind of figured out what, what students need on campus.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, it’s actually, I would say that is the most like difficult part of working for a student union is like, you would think it’s so obvious and that students are so straightforward with what they want. But it’s actually much harder to engage with the student population than like at face value what you would think and it’s not as simple as going out or putting a survey out of like, what do you want? Because there’s the saying like, if you build it, they will come but we’ve we’ve learned very, very many times if you build it, they sometimes don’t come and there’s no reason. And so it’s this like continuous effort, honestly, not even on my part, but mostly on our student engagement part. So Shreya, she works full time as the vice president of student engagement. And that’s kind of her job this year is really figuring out like, how do we talk to the students who aren’t part of that bubble, who look at all of our posts, right? We have a pretty good following on Instagram. around 40,000 students, but the student population as a whole is much bigger than that. So how do we get the student who doesn’t want to come to the concert? They don’t want to come to craft nigh.

Daniel Klapper
and they’re not interested in any advocacy initiatives. They just want to go to school and come back? How do we make sure that we’re also servicing those needs, even if they’re not voicing their opinion, right? And that’s been a challenge. I think we’ve done a great job this year, in particular with the UA and EA roles, which is University Affairs and External Affairs. And then as well as our president going out and talking to students, kind of meeting them where they’re at, doing a lot of initiatives in the atrium, which is like the big building that we have here, right in the center, and just kind of, whether it’s doing a kahoot to kind of tell students about what we’re working on, or doing a massive survey with some giveaways, just kind of like making sure we have an informed decision as to what students want. And then the other time, other times it’s kind of just a guess, right? Like we were students ourselves once, so we have a unique perspective as like as to what is required. So the professional development is a perfect example. When we’re planning these events, we’re not necessarily going out and asking students like hey would you come to a gala if we host it? It’s more a personal experience that if I was in second year, if I was in third year and the university invited me to a gala with 30 to 40 professional individuals and they charged five dollars to get in, no chance, like no chance I’m passing that up, right? So like those are the types of things where it’s not always necessary to kind of hear feedback from students but it definitely does help make an informed decision of whether or not the program continues or whether or not the services actually being used. So lots of feedback, but also just personal experience and trial and error, I guess.

Daniel Klapper
You’re so close in age still to a lot of the students and you can put yourself in their shoes and understand some of the challenges they’re going through.

Sam Demma
It sounds like the $5 professional gala night is a massive success. Is it really highly attended by students and something that you guys do every year?

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, so we this is the first one that we’ve done. So it’s happening on March 19th. So we’re tickets are still up for sale. So we’re still pushing that and making sure that every student knows about it. Sometimes, like I said, Instagram can be an awesome way to get the word out, but honestly, sometimes we have to reach out personally.

Daniel Klapper
Like we’ve got 230 plus clubs, a lot of them being business clubs, women in leadership, STEM club. And sometimes we just reach out to them like, hey, we’re hosting this event, we’re thinking of you and we’re designing it.

Daniel Klapper
We’d love for you to come out and that’s sometimes the best way to get people out. With the AI stuff too, we’re reaching out to the people who are interested in that. So when we were hosting our most recent session was in January, we did applications of AI in entrepreneurship and business and we made sure that we involved the Ivy students in the conversation and the BMOS students because they’re kind of the ones who are looking for that type of info. So we’ve done a pretty good job at kind of pushing our events.

Daniel Klapper
And honestly, we have a full time team who works on promotions, all the graphics, all the social media as well. And they’re absolutely killers at what they do. So I can’t take any credit for it because I’m not great with the whole social media thing. it for it because I’m not great with the whole social media thing, but it’s definitely, definitely an art of knowing when to post, when not to post, when to repost, and they’ve got it down to a T, so they do a pretty good job. When you think of events that the USC hosts that are classics, like people love them, and maybe you’ve heard from other people on the team that we’ve done these for the past 12 years and it’s always a hit. Are there any ideas that another school team listening to this could think about replicating on their campuses? I know there’s a lot of educators also listening that want to engage their students in grade 12 and grade 11 and they might be able to borrow some ideas. Yeah, absolutely.

Daniel Klapper
I mean, one of the things that’s nice about this job is we’ve had the opportunity to meet a lot of student councils from across Canada. So we attended conference in British Columbia called SUDS hosted by the AMS over at UBC. And it was fantastic. We got to talk to hundreds of other student leaders and really get to hear about what are they working on? How does their club system work? How do you guys host events? Really at the end of the day, it comes down to money. And I think that’s an issue that everyone faces is things are expensive. One thing that we’ve noticed this year is beyond the classic, like if you were to ask a university student at Western, what’s the classic event at the USC hosts that everyone’s gonna go to? It’s always the concerts. So we’ve set a pretty big name for ourself by bringing some pretty big artists like Sway Lee, Quavo, all these really great, Josh Ross, another one country artist. But beyond that, I think the smaller programming, which is what Sarah Fullerton, our vice president of programming, has done a really great job of this year, is finding the students who don’t wanna come to the concerts and hosting things like craft night. We’ve done paint and sip where we host wine nights in the wave and you get to come out. 20 bucks gets you two glasses of wine and a canvas and paint all set up, ready to go.

Daniel Klapper
Bingo was huge. We hosted bingo a couple of times. Sells out instantly. Battle of the bands has been really cool. I actually just was sitting in Sarah’s office right before this watching rehear- or like audition tapes of students who want to show off their talent, they want to show off the band that they have, and those are cheap events because we don’t have to pay anyone to do that, but it gives students an opportunity to come out and really engage with each other, sit in the smoke, grab a drink, grab some food, and just listen to other student artists. I think those have been super successful this year. And I think probably something that the USC will continue to do. Another thing that we brought back is, not every school has this, but it’s not hard to do. But we have like an auditorium that can be turned into a movie theater. And post COVID, it kind of was abandoned.

Daniel Klapper
We hadn’t used it in a while. So one of the initiatives that Emily proposed in her platform was movie nights. So we’ve been doing like Tuesday movies, free to come. You’d basically just show up, first come, first serve. We’ve been buying the rights to like old movies.

Daniel Klapper
So Halloween, we went and watched The Shining, they had some horror movies, and then Christmas movies, and then now they’re doing classics. So you can go on a Tuesday night, first 25 people to show up get free popcorn. So those are all things that we don’t have to pay much for. But we see awesome engagement from the students. And it might not be your 4000 person concert, but you compound those small events over and over again across various areas of interest on campus. And by the end of the year, you have a student body that’s really gotten to experience something awesome with their peers.

Sam Demma
One of my friends is obsessed with marketing and he says, someone has to interact with your stuff for seven hours before they make a decision to feel like they’re a part of your products and services and a part of your mission and your movement. And I think about it from the same perspective of students on a campus.

Sam Demma
Even if they just attended the concert, maybe it’s still not enough for them to really feel like they’re involved. They got to have these other touch points throughout the year, which are all these other amazing opportunities for them to build more relationships, meet new people, steal some popcorn and watch some movies.

Sam Demma
I’m curious when you think about your own professional development in this role and in other roles you’ve been in, are there any resources or people or mentors that have had a really monumental impact on you? And if so, like what were those resources or people and what did they do for you?

Daniel Klapper
Yeah. So, I mean, I’ve had a pretty unique university experience that I think most people don’t typically have in the sense that I probably did more work for free extracurricular wise than I did school and so I spent all of my free time whether it was with the Pre-law society participating in mooting competitions or mock trials, or last year I was on the social science student council running their finances. And I found that to be the best way for me to kind of interact with people because I came in second year after a year of COVID online, right?

Daniel Klapper
So I showed up to the university with my three closest best friends. We lived in an apartment together and our second year we did nothing. We went to class, we came home, we watched movies, we made food and repeat. We didn’t know that the USC existed, we didn’t know who our president was and we didn’t know that there were clubs available to us. And then in my third year I started to think and I was like, you know what, like it’s about time I get out there and start testing out the stuff that’s available to me.

Daniel Klapper
So I looked into the club system really. And I looked at, at the time I wanted to be a lawyer, and now I’ve kind of pivoted more to the business side. But at the time I looked at the pre-law society and was like, oh years older, but they’re running all these awesome initiatives. And I looked at the vice president of finance for a club or the president of a club, and to me, they were like the highest of high that you could get at university. And I looked at them and thought, like, I wanna be one of them one day. I wanna be a president of a club.

Daniel Klapper
I wanna help organize the budget for the pre-law society or the mooting society. And so I just started showing up. And when I started showing up, I noticed that I call it like the snowball effect. But before I knew it, I was going from one club and then I was on an executive team. And one guy was on an executive team for another thing. And he’s like, hey, come out to our one networking event. And next thing you know know you end up meeting like this spider web of people who are all connected on campus. And in the end it resulted in me having this job because by the time two years had passed I went from not knowing that the USC existed and thinking that being a part of a club was untouchable, something that only the highest of high people could achieve to overseeing the entire club system in two years. And so I always think about the people that I met along the way who kind of introduced me. So whether it was the social science president from two years ago, Bianca, or like looking at the USC president that time, which was Ethan Gardner and thinking like, hey, these people are pretty accomplished and they kind of, like just listening to them talk, even though I didn’t really have personal relationships with them, just like seeing that they were able to do it

Daniel Klapper
and that they also came from like a social science background, really inspired me to kind of get involved. Although my friends never kind of came with me, so my roommates never got involved on campus. They stuck to their studies.

Daniel Klapper
Mind you, they’re engineers, software engineers, and medical science students. So I’m sure their classes were a lot harder than the history student who had a bit more free time on his hand. But yeah, all those club presidents and then the USC execs really inspired me to kind of get involved and kind of make a name for myself on campus. And then eventually the job opened up for this and put my name forward and it worked out well so far.

Sam Demma
It sounds like it has, and I’m sure it will continue to. I’m so grateful that you took some time to come on the show, share some of your lessons learned in education and the work you’re doing, share some ideas around supporting students. I hope that the rest of the academic year goes really well. I’ll be rooting you on from the sideline. Good luck at the golf tournament we’ll touch base again soon.

Daniel Klapper
Awesome. Thank you. Pray for good weather.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Daniel Klapper

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

June 5, 2025 by Education Student Success 0

Kerri Russell-Channer – Owner & Founder of Russell Aquatics Swim School

Kerri Russell-Channer – Owner & Founder of Russell Aquatics Swim School
About Kerri Russell-Channer

For over 20 years, Kerri Russell-Channer has been at the helm of Russell Aquatics Swim School, providing families with exceptional swim instruction and fostering a love for water safety and skill development. Her passion for teaching and commitment to excellence have made Russell Aquatics a trusted name in the community.

Outside of work, Kerri loves spending quality time with her husband, Titus, and their three active children, often shuttling them between various sporting activities. A travel enthusiast, Kerri enjoys exploring new destinations and creating unforgettable family memories.

A fun fact: Kerri has had the privilege of working alongside her sister and co-owner, Kristi Russell, for the entirety of her swim school journey. Their shared vision and dedication have made the past two decades an incredible adventure, both professionally and personally.

Connect with Kerri Russell-Channer: Email | Instagram | LinkedIn | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Russell Aquatics Swim School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Kerri Russell. As the co-founder of Russell Aquatics Swim School, Kerri has dedicated over two decades to providing exceptional swim instruction and promoting water safety within her community, working alongside her sister, co-owner Kristi Russell.

Throughout her journey, Kerri has established a trusted reputation for quality teaching and skill development. Beyond her professional accomplishments, she balances her entrepreneurial pursuits with family life, enjoying travel adventures, and supporting her three children, supporting activities alongside her husband, Titus. Kerri, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, I’m so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.

Sam Demma

I need to be a student of your swim school because I learned in my grandfather’s backyard and I’ve learned that that’s not a good way to learn how to swim properly.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Hey, that’s okay. Did your grandfather teach you or did you get lessons in your grandfather’s backyard?

Sam Demma

It was a soft push into the shallow end.

Kerri Russell-Channer

It was a throw in and sink or swim situation.

Sam Demma

Sometimes an educator has these aspirations to do things outside of their role as an educator in a school building, but it feels like entrepreneurship is a sink or swim situation. Tell me a little bit about what inspired you to start your entrepreneurial pursuits years ago.

Kerri Russell-Channer

So I started when I was 17 years old. So I grew up as a competitive swimmer and I then transitioned to teaching swimming and I was working for the city and I absolutely just loved teaching children. I was, my plan was to go to school to be a teacher.

I was teaching adapted aquatics. I loved how I could make a difference and truly saving lives. And I loved connecting with the children and helping them get over fears and then seeing them succeed and their parents coming in all anxious.

And then you just developed this like beautiful bond as they move through something that they were very fearful of. So I knew from a young age that I just, I loved helping people and I loved teaching. But I also grew up in with a lot of my friends, their parents were entrepreneurs and I loved the freedom they had.

I loved the creativity that they had. I really was inspired young by entrepreneurship and when I, you know, was presented the idea to write up a business plan, a business plan in my grade 12 class, there was because of swimming was such a huge part of my life. I thought, why don’t I start a swim school?

My parents backyard pool. And it was just that simple business plan. I got a grant and I, I started that summer and I never looked back since.

It’s going to be 21 years this June and I’ve loved every moment of it. It’s been quite the adventure, but yeah, there was a lot of times where I fell sink or swim and I still feel like that today. You go through growing pains.

Sam Demma

And there’s an educator listening who has another idea of something they want to do, maybe not in their parents backyard, but their own backyard or a passion project outside of the classroom. But they think that they can’t, they think that it’s not possible for them. Can you walk me through how you overcame your own, maybe limiting beliefs or how other people can overcome their own limiting beliefs when it comes to jumping into an entrepreneurial pursuit?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, people have a lot of limiting beliefs. You know, it’s just start somewhere and just it’s small steps every day. You know, whether it’s a dog walking business, whether it’s car washing, car detailing, just something on the side.

You don’t have to go and quit your job and start a business and, you know, throw it all in and say, this is it, start slow. And it’s really one day at a time. But for me, it was personal growth and development.

And I threw myself into becoming a different person. I had to work on my mindset. I had to get over limiting beliefs.

I had to get over, over fear. I mean, I was 17 when I started my business. I didn’t know much, but then I look back and I’m like, maybe that was perfect because I just jumped in and just did it impulsively because I was young.

But I think that like anybody can do that. It’s the story we tell ourselves. And I think we all, if we can focus on ourselves and, you know, podcasts and books and a lot of personal development conferences, this stuff shifted my mindset and really once I started, there was no looking back, I didn’t care what it was going to take.

And I still don’t care what it’s going to take. I’m, I’m going to do it.

Sam Demma

When you think of the conferences you attended, the books you’ve read, the podcasts you listened to, the seminars, are there any resources that have been foundational? Like you, you attended this event or read this thing and it really opened your eyes or do you think it was more a combination of all of the experiences?

Kerri Russell-Channer

I think it’s all the experiences. I think there was definitely certain things that stood out to me and certain motivators that really spoke to me over others. But I, I really think that it’s cumulative.

It’s also the people you meet at those conferences and the network you start to build. Entrepreneurs think different. We just do.

And we gravitate towards each other and you can lean on each other for support. And I thought that like once I, I was actually a, I got involved in my early twenties in a network marketing company and you know, I didn’t, I don’t do the network marketing company today, but the leadership and the conferences and the people I met, there was so much valuable information that I took away that I feel like kind of like really threw me into the next phase of entrepreneurship, um, in my mid twenties. So there was so many amazing speakers there that, um, really just touched me and, and, and moved me forward and motivated me. Um, yeah.

Sam Demma

There’s a author and speaker named Jim Rohn who I was going to actually mention him when you just said that he, he was big in herbal life. And I still listen to his lectures on YouTube and the information is so rich and so valuable and it’s accessible right there. The guy I recently had, well, we had a sink in our, in our basement break.

And my dad called one of his friends, Jimmy, cause they’re not here right now, uh, who has the, the know how to fix it. And I was handing him tools to help. And he looks at me and he’s like, Sam, can you believe that before I came here today, I bought seven books for $3 and 50 cents.

I was like, what? And he’s like, yeah, I stopped at thrift stores and I get books that are like $24 at Indigo online, but I get them for 50 cents and I read like two to three books a week. Honestly, it’s there, it’s there for people, but most don’t have the drive to kind of, you know, crack them open, um, and like dive into the learning, not to make a swimming analogy.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, but it’s, it’s true. And, and even if it’s not, um, it’s not reading for me, I, I listened to a lot of, um, audibles and I walk. So audibles are massive for me and I just walk and I listen and I get my exercise in and I find that those are, you just have to find what works for you, but all of these books and what you fill your mind with is who you become.

Um, there was a, the email that changed everything for me. Um, Simon Sinek was another one. He was a massive influencer.

He still is. I’ve seen him speak about four times. Um, but when I read the email, I think that really took me into a different level of business.

Um, and start with why it was one of the ones that I, I really resonated with from the beginning for the educator, who’s not familiar with your work today, tell us a little bit about Russell aquatics now.

Sam Demma

It started in the backyard. Um, give us a high level of view of the company now.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah. So Russell aquatics started my parents backyard pool with me as the only instructor with probably about 70 kids the first summer. Um, as it grew each summer, my sister joined me, my best friend joined me and we kind of like grew our, our instructors.

And we started not only teaching from my parents backyard pool, but we rented other people’s pools and we traveled to other people’s homes. Um, we got to a point where we were doing about 500 kids a week in the summer. And that’s when I knew I was graduating teachers college that I wanted to expand this business and go full year.

I started renting out of hotels, gyms, anywhere where I could get a pool all season long. They weren’t the best situations. I didn’t love the facilities, but I knew I needed a way to expand the business and push through that.

And about seven years ago, now we built our own 6,000 square foot custom facility with an in-ground pool. And now we teach about 3000 kids a week. And we have a staff of over 70 part time.

And I think we’re at five or six full time right now. And we’re just seeing those growing pains again. Now looking for another location, looking to expand.

Um, and it’s not always easy. I run through a lot of challenges trying to convince a landlord to put an in-ground pool in their unit. It’s not the easiest thing to do.

Um, but you know, we, that’s where we are now. So we are hopefully going to expand to multiple locations around the GTA. And, and we’ve grown this like beautiful team of people and this beautiful community of people who love Russell aquatics.

And we saved over hundreds of thousands of lives. And a lot of these people I’m still very close with today. I started teaching their kids when they were babies at the city and now they work for me.

Sam Demma

It’s such a beautiful facility filled with amazing human beings. I enjoyed meeting some of your staff and, uh, just seeing students and families so excited to show up and swim and learn. Can you walk me through how you attract such amazing human beings on your team?

There, there might be a superintendent or a principal listening who wants to get more, uh, enthusiastic staff in their organizations, but I’m not sure how.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, I think, um, we live and breathe our core values and, you know, Christie and I, Christie is my sister. We’re not at the facility every day now, but we work a lot with our leadership team to resemble the kind of leaders that we are. And we lead with passion, integrity, love, care.

Um, and really like we put each other first and we put our customers first. And it’s like, how would you treat family? How would, and that has to be in your, the back of your mind.

We do a lot of customer service training, um, white glove service. And we just really, I think at the end of the day, when you lead with love and passion and integrity, the rest of your team want to lead the same way. And that is a culture that you create and we’re big on our culture in our swim school.

So whether it’s our team, whether it’s our families that come to us, we want people to feel a sense of belonging. And we want them to experience having a certain type of experience that we’ve curated for them. And that all starts with putting others first and really leading by our core values and our integrity as a company.

Um, and yeah, we’ve been super, I mean, I want to say we’ve been lucky, but we’ve worked hard and we’ve held people accountable and we’ve, you know, just created this culture and family that everyone just wants to be a part of. And it’s, it’s being like such a beautiful journey.

Sam Demma

I think it’s something you’ve attracted. Jim Rona always says success isn’t pursued, but attracted by the person you’ve become, and it sounds like you and Christie and the team, role model, the behavior you wish to see in the staff you bring into your facility and then hold them accountable to those core values in education, there are unhappy customers, which are usually parents calling to speak to a principal or to speak about the way their teacher handled a situation, and it’s the same or very similar in a swim school. If you have an unhappy customer, it’s a, it’s a parent of a young person.

Um, what is your philosophy around dealing with those challenging conversations when someone’s expectations are not being met or they have a challenge or an issue?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah. And I’ll just quickly to go back to what you just said as well about Christie and I and emulating, um, and then people following lead by example. We also bring our leadership team to a lot of different conferences.

So we expose them to that greater sense of leadership from experts. And we’ve done that for our staff as young as 17. Um, and we bring a lot of people in to have those talks with them.

So I think that’s really important. If you’re not helping your, your team get better. We always say, even if you leave Russell aquatics one day, you’re going to leave better, you’re going to lead, lead, leave as a better leader than what you came in as, and that’s the impact we want to have on your life.

So I’ll just say that quick. And then handling difficult clients, it’s not easy. People management’s hard.

Um, and you can’t, not everybody’s going to love you, unfortunately, but we listen. And we try our best to come to resolutions. And we own up to our mistakes when we’ve made them and we make, and we try and do things right.

We don’t deny when we’ve made a mistake. We take every complaint, every feedback very seriously. And we have internal meetings and when we need to change our processes or change the way we’re doing things, then that’s what we do.

We pivot, we learn, we go, we’re not stuck in mud. Um, we’re not afraid of failing. We fail forward and we learn and we listen and we move forward.

And it’s not always easy because emotions are difficult and people management is difficult. Um, and we’re not, we don’t always do it perfect, but we’re learning.

Sam Demma

You said we listen, we own up to our mistakes and we try our best to make the best decision we can moving forward. I think those are, those are really the keys, you know, you listen to the person intently, you own up to where you fell short, and then you try and make the best decision moving forward. Um, I also think that we improve our decision-making and the actions we choose to take based on the mentors we have in our lives, you know, Luke Skywalker had Yoda and, um, the Karate Kid had Mr. Miyagi and Michael Jordan had Phil Jackson. And, um, most of these high performing people in life had a coach or like a mentor, someone who really helped them. When you think about your career, isn’t anyone who was a really great mentor to you, who played a really significant impact on the way you think about things and the way you show up? And if so, who’s that person and what did they teach you or do for you?

Kerri Russell-Channer

I would probably say it’s pretty cliche for me because it is my parents and it’s my dad and my dad was actually, um, in leadership and development for Hallmark Canada for over 30 years. So from the time we were very young, we were, um, thought about accountability, about leadership, about attitude, um, and about how you just show up. So I think that those lessons influenced my sister and I so greatly that we became these strong leaders from a very young age.

I mean, when I was in grade four, I won this speech contest on an ICANN attitude and, um, if you believe you can, you can, if you believe you can’t, you won’t. And, um, that was ingrained in me from a very, very young age. So I would say that my dad had a massive impact on me becoming a leader and really like believing in myself.

Um, and then I have a community of swim school owners, other swim school owners that have the very similar story to me. And very young in our very early on in my entrepreneurship journey, I reached out to them and I said, this is who I am. I wasn’t afraid to ask for help for people who had already paved the path.

And I think so much of the time we’re so afraid to lean on people in our industry and we’re threatened, or we feel nervous to kind of, to reach out to those people, because we think that they won’t want to help us. But if you do that, you find that you can have built some incredible relationships and those people really, really, really help to propel us into the next phase of business. And also introduced us to a whole network of other owners in the same industry.

Um, so some of the problems that we dealt with, we were able to lean on people who had already done it and were more than happy to help.

Sam Demma

Are you still in touch with many of those people as colleagues now?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah. So I’m a part of the Canadian Swim School Alliance. We actually founded that association in COVID.

Um, so we’re very close there. And then I have a lot of people that I’m friends with and mentor me that are from like Australia, a lot of Australian swim school owners, Philippines, the United States, and we’ve built this like network worldwide throughout our Canadian Swim School Alliances, or not even just Canadian, but US, the International Swim School Alliance. And these people are all owners and leaders and we’re all about mentorship and helping each other and not just helping us as owners, but also helping our teams.

Sam Demma

Tell me a little bit about balance. Um, and maybe it’s not balance, but it’s about, uh, integration between your work and your family life, because there’s an educator listening who is wanting to do more. And the first thought that pops in their head is if I do more, I’m going to die.

Like there’s just, there’s not a space for it. What, what boundaries have you set? What systems do you follow or what things have helped you, um, manage the demands of all the other buckets you have in your life?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, balance is tough. And that’s something that I’m always working on. I think I’ve gotten a lot better as the years go, have gone on.

But as a mom of three, I can tell you, I’m so happy. I set that foundation, um, when my kids were pretty early, cause the burnout was real and as a woman entrepreneur, it’s, it is very difficult running, um, your business, running your family, being a good mom, being a good friend, being a good wife, being a good leader, and it’s very overwhelming, but I had a mentor in the swim school industry tell me, um, just before COVID, I was really struggling from burnout. My son was one years old. Um, he’s my second.

I had opened our swim school on his first birthday and I was completely burnt out, um, and I was, I was breaking. And he said to me, he had me read the email and he said to me, do you want to be queen or do you want to be rich? And he goes, you have to get out of your business and stop working in your business or your business is never going to grow.

And it’s never going to function without you. And I read that book and it was the biggest wake up call for me because what I started doing is I started trusting my team more and we put people in place to help us to run our business so that we could take a step back and not work in our business as an employee. Cause that’s what I was doing.

I was working as an employee within my own business. Um, and I started to work on the business and the business, I took a step back, I wasn’t in the swim school all the time. I, I reorganized my hours.

I reorganized my life and we grew the business probably double within that year because we had the opportunity to get out of the pool and start working on what are some of the issues? How do we market better? How do we communicate?

How do we lead our team better? How do I trust my team? And it was hard because a lot of the years I did everything myself because as this is your baby, you think you can do it the best and you can do it the best, but I needed to trust my team that they could do as good of a job, if not better.

And thank God I learned that lesson because honestly, today with my kids in rep sports, I don’t know what I would do.

Sam Demma

You’d be losing it.

Kerri Russell-Channer

I would be a mess. So I think that that’s, you know, people always say to me like, oh my God, like you have this business and you’re, you have flexibility and I’m like, yeah, I’ve created my business to be able to operate without me. And that’s a huge, huge lesson.

Sam Demma

One of my mentor says a business you can sell is a great business to build. And it hinges on that whole idea that it could exist without you being there. So I’m going to go reread the email. Thank you for the recommendation.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Yeah, the email is amazing.

Sam Demma

I think what’s really exciting about your journey is that, you know, it’s been 20 years or just over 20 years and there’s many more years to come, but you’ve done, you know, two decades of work in this, in this space, at least. And when you think about the time, what are, what is maybe one accomplishment or achievement so far that you’re most proud of and what vision do you have for the next decade?

Kerri Russell-Channer

Oh gosh, there’s so much. We just celebrated our 20th year last year. So I think about this a lot, but, um, I don’t know.

I think having taking the risk of opening that facility was definitely the biggest. I was in my late twenties at the time and it was very daunting and I took out a big loan and it was scary. Um, and I, it was, I didn’t know what I was doing.

And again, it was one day at a time. And I think that’s just knowing the belief in myself to take the risk. Um, the belief in myself when not many other people had a belief in us and didn’t really believe that we could do this or we were making a huge mistake or we are going to put ourselves in debt and the risk and the state, like just everything.

And I think that me just believing, no, this is, I know I’ve got this. I know I can do this and just continuing to move forward. Um, I think that, that definitely is a huge one for me and what the next 10 years look like.

It really is about growing now. It’s not just growing this business for Christie and I. It’s about growing it for our team.

We want to give our team the opportunity to grow into different positions and for them to experience growth with our company. And, um, if we don’t grow, we’re not just doing a disservice to Christie and I, but we’re doing a disservice to the people that have put their blood, sweat and tears into this business alongside with us. And we want it, we want to bring them on this journey.

So the next 10 years we’re grinding it out and we’re expanding and, um, it’s going to come with its own set of challenges, but we’re excited for the challenge. We, we, we look forward to challenge and it, I think that’s what helps us to grow even more. And I don’t like sitting stagnant, so, um, I’m, I’m really looking forward to the next 10 years and those growth opportunities and what what’s to come.

Sam Demma

It’s an exciting thing to witness. I can’t wait to follow the journey. Keep up the amazing work that you’re doing.

Thank you for taking the time to come on the podcast and share some of your entrepreneurial ideas and insights and your own journey. I know it’s inspiring not only to me, but to everyone who’s listening. Um, I’ll see you soon and until then keep up the amazing work.

Kerri Russell-Channer

Thank you so much. Thank you again for having me

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Kerri Russell-Channer

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

June 3, 2025 by Director of Education 0

Julie McGillivray — Counsellor at St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School

Julie McGillivray — Counsellor at St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School
About Julie McGillivray

Julie McGillivray has been an educator for over a decade, and she shares her passion for learning with her students. She embraces the philosophy that kindness costs nothing but pays huge returns.

When she isn’t sharing her joy in the classroom, you can find her spending time with her family and dog on beautiful Georgian Bay, dancing like nobody is watching in her kitchen, or perpetually searching for her lost set of keys. 

Connect with Julie McGillivray: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie McGillivrayWelcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie . Julie has been an educator for over a decade, and she shares her passion for learning with her students. She embraces the philosophy that kindness costs nothing,

Sam Demma
but pays huge returns. Julie also kindly organized the Empt Your Backpack Reading Guide and created it to help readers engage more deeply with Empty Your Backpack and reflect on its transformative lessons. When she isn’t sharing her joy in the classroom, you can find her spending time with her family and dog on the beautiful Georgian Bay, dancing like nobody’s watching in her kitchen, or perpetually searching for her lost set of keys. Julie, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Julie McGillivray
Thank you for having me.

Sam Demma
You’re very welcome. Tell me a little bit about what got you into education.

Julie McGillivray
Well, I always wanted to be a teacher since I was a young girl. I think it was having some teachers that really had an impact on me when I was younger. And unfortunately, I did not get into teachers college outside of university. I tried for three years to get into teachers college just after I finished university. And I was unsuccessful each time for a variety of reasons. And I gave up on that dream.

Julie McGillivray
And instead, I decided to pivot and do something else. But it was always in the back of my mind that I wanted to be a teacher. And the year that I was turning 40, I was at my job at a leadership development company, we went into organizations and help them with their communication help teams with their leadership development, we did experiential learning. And I

Julie McGillivray
loved that job. But I was sitting at my desk one day, and I decided, you know what, if I don’t do it now, I’m never going to do it. I decided to take the monumental leap and go back to school. And I went to Teachers College and gratefully was hired when I graduated and I’ve been teaching ever since.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about the mental challenge you went through of changing, making that decision to make the jump because there’s a lot of people that are so worried and scared about making a big change in their lives, but sometimes on the other end of those big changes are beautiful opportunities and things that bring us more joy and fulfillment than we could have ever imagined we would have got in a previous position. Walk me through that decision and how you found the courage to kind of make it.

Julie McGillivray
Well, it was really scary, So I’m grateful that you said, use the word courage, because it was scary for me. I had children, I had three children at home. I had a husband who traveled quite frequently with work. And it meant that my entire family had to make some sacrifices in order for me to go back to school. Because my kids were younger, I knew that I couldn’t go to school full time. I could not go five days a week because they were in activities and they needed their mom at home. Prior to me going back to work, I was a stay at home mom for nine years. So it was really scary to think that I was going to be away from my kids. But I took the leap because I would strongly believe that it’s never too late to make a change in your life.

Julie McGillivray
And to me, teaching is a calling, it is a passion, it is not just a job. And so I just, I felt, I guess, to be, not to sound cliche, but I felt the fear and I did it anyway.

Sam Demma
Yeah. I love the idea of it being a calling and a passion, not a job. I found that I’ve done my best work when I didn’t think about it as work. I thought about it as something I was supposed to do. Like I was using gifts and talents to really be of service in some way. And it sounds like you have the same philosophy around education. Tell me about the parts of the work that bring you the most joy and fulfillment.

Julie McGillivray
Absolutely. It is having relationships with the students. I chose to teach high school. I had an opportunity. I probably could have been hired maybe a little bit quicker because I had an opportunity to teach in an elementary school setting. But I knew that teenagers were really who I wanted to

Julie McGillivray
help facilitate their learning. I think I would have been better there. So I waited, I was very patient, it took me a long time to get hired permanent as a permanent teacher. But yeah, it’s the relationships, it’s seeing kids at a period of time in their life when so much is going on mentally, physically,

Julie McGillivray
they’ve got lots of things happening in their life and just to be able to facilitate their learning is just, it’s so special to me. And when you have a relationship with a child that, you know, you can tell that you matter, and it’s just, it makes all the difference. I’ve always, I was an English teacher before, currently I work in student services and guidance, but I was an English teacher before

Julie McGillivray
and teaching kids, for example, to love reading, to appreciate a good book or a good story and to have their light bulbs go on and say, wow, I really enjoyed that. It just made all the difference. I, I smile when I think about teaching because I know it is hard work and I’m not going to lie. There are some days that are better than others, but truthfully, I love it. I love coming to work every single day. And it’s been like that for, you know, almost 14 years.

Sam Demma
You said building the relationships with the students is one of the most fulfilling parts of the work for you. How do you build that relationship with a student to the degree where they know that you really have their best interest in your heart? And, you know, they open up about things and they really, they feel comfortable around you because I think about the teachers that I really connected with and they really built solid relationships, professional relationships with me. But I like thinking back, I’m trying to figure out how, like what is it that they did that was different? And I’m curious what your thoughts are.

Julie McGillivray
Well, I can’t be anything other than myself. I’m a pretty gregarious person. I am an extrovert and I do really like to chitter chatter. But I think that kids, particularly teenagers, but all kids really, they can smell when they, they can smell it when it’s not. And so I can, I don’t have a blueprint other than being myself.

Julie McGillivray
And so I know for me, for example, having someone say good morning to you matters. You know, I know for me, having someone smile at me and acknowledge me and see me matters. And so that’s what I try to bring into my classroom. And it’s not always easy. But I do think that every single person that enters a classroom is deserving of respect and is deserving of the opportunity to shine in their own way. And so my job as an educator is to help them recognize that little things like I don’t know, I like to talk to my students, I asked them every day in my class, we would have a question to end the day. It could be whatever. What’s your favorite color? If you were an animal, what would you be?

Julie McGillivray
And just to spend that five or 10 minutes that’s not focused on curriculum, but actually focused on them as a student or as a person, I think that that matters. Kindness costs nothing but pays huge return.

Sam Demma
Those two actions of greeting somebody or complimenting somebody are things that are free of monetary cost but can have a big impact. Tell me more about that philosophy about kindness costing nothing, but paying huge returns.

Julie McGillivray
You know what, Sam, my mom, uh, God bless her. She passed away a few years ago. I was blessed to have my mom in my life for 93 years. Well, she was not mine. I need to be 93. Um, but my mom was kind to everyone that she met. And to me, I think it’s just that simple,

Julie McGillivray
that everyone is deserving of your kindness. And it really takes no time at all to smile at someone and say something nice. So I always used to tell when I did teach in grade eight, I always used to tell my students that every time you open your mouth, you have an opportunity to make someone’s day or break someone’s day. And that’s a very big responsibility for us all as humans. like it’s all rose-colored glasses and pie in the sky, but I do believe that small acts of kindness can go a long way, particularly for students that might be struggling outside of school.

Julie McGillivray
They might not have a family life that is conducive to building them up. And so you can make all the difference by being a caring and supportive adult, somebody who’s just kind. So that’s my philosophy.

Sam Demma
You were talking about your mom. And I instantly thought of my grandfather who always was looking for those opportunities to make somebody else feel special and appreciated and included and valued. And I just know how much of an impact it had on those people because long after he’s gone, they’re still talking about it.

Sam Demma
You know, like I visit family and they’ll bring up my grandfather’s name and he passed away when I was 13. It’s been over a decade now. And I think that we underestimate how much of a difference those acts of kindness can have on other people. Have you had, aside from your mom, mentors or people in your life who showed you that level of kindness as well that really guided you down your path or supported you through challenging moments? I did actually, I had a university professor, I was in my second year of university. Her name was Dr. Oh, gosh, it’s been so long. I think her I know her first name was Nancy. She passed away. But I was struggling to make ends meet financially. And when you’re an English major, you need to read an awful lot of different novels, and they’re not always available in the library. And I went to her office, and I said to her, it was just this one book that we needed to read that

Julie McGillivray
I was I just didn’t have the funds to purchase the book. And I just went to her office and asked her if she could possibly loan me one copy so that I could stay up with the reading. And she told me to come back the next day to her office. And so I did. And when I got there, she was not in her office. But her, the person that was working there said, Oh, Oh, Dr. Bailey was her name. Nancy.

Julie McGillivray
Is it funny how when you go through a story, the names pop back in your head? Yeah. I guess her assistant said, Dr. Bailey has left this for you. And it was a bag and it was full of every one of the books that the course had brand new. She had purchased for me and I’ll never forget the card said, please accept this as a token of my respect and friendship. And it meant the world to me because the fact that she had so many students and she was so busy and she didn’t really know me,

Julie McGillivray
I was just, you know, it was kind of new in her class and she just, it made such an impact on me. So when I graduated university, I was so excited when I saw her across Johnson Green. I went to Guelph University and when I saw her across Johnson Green, I’ll never forget it. I got, it was, she’s the one professor I have a picture of on my graduation day and I introduced her to my parents and I was just so grateful for that small act of kindness. I did not, I did not need all of those books. I only needed the one, but the fact

Julie McGillivray
that she went above and beyond just meant the world to me. So definitely a mentor and to be honest, I have so many mentors in my life, colleagues that I work with that are so helpful. Going back to teacher’s college at 40 years old was not easy. And entering the arena of education as a woman with graying hair, working with students or other teachers that were maybe, you know, they could be my kids. It was very humbling experience. And so I had to ask for help and they were so gracious. So I’ve had so many acts of kindness given to me.

Julie McGillivray
It only makes sense to pay it forward.

Sam Demma
Your story gave me goosebumps. It’s such a- I haven’t thought about it in a long time actually. That’s such an impactful story and I appreciate you sharing it. I think that again, we sometimes underestimate how those actions have an impact on others. And you know, here we are years

Sam Demma
later talking about it and haven’t thought about it. But when I asked you that question, it pops in your head. And I just think that the world would be a much better place if everyone operated from that level of energy where they’re looking for ways to help others or if there’s a call for help that we do answer it.

Sam Demma
When you think of your journey through education, what are any of the resources or people while you’ve been in this school for the past 14 years that have been really helpful to you? Are there any additional mentors or resources that have shaped your thinking around working with young people?

Julie McGillivray
I’ll tell you, I think that leadership is really important in school and I have been extremely blessed to work with administrators that are, they don’t just talk the talk, they walk the walk. So yes, I had at the beginning of my teaching career, I was fortunate enough to work with an administrator who provided me opportunities to grow and challenge myself as a teacher. And that could, that was by the way of giving me, you know, courses that maybe I hadn’t thought about teaching before, although I was qualified for them, I was, you know, scared to maybe approach the subject matter.

Julie McGillivray
And seeing something in me and giving me an opportunity that maybe I wouldn’t have done myself because I would be too fearful. So that is a real blessing. Scary. I haven’t taught the same, I mean I tend to teach different courses every year and so that was hard because sometimes you know you want to get something down and you want to be able to perfect it and so sometimes I found it challenging but I’m looking back really grateful for the opportunity to do

Julie McGillivray
new things and different things. Wasn’t always, didn’t always feel that way when I had to do all of the planning. But I’m grateful for those leaders and mentors. I also had a department head when I first started at this school who was instrumental in providing me with a safe and compassionate space to talk about, you know, some things that maybe I was struggling with

Julie McGillivray
being a new slash old teacher. And that colleague of mine, I’m happy to call a friend right now and saw something in me and was able to provide me that safe space. So surrounding yourself with people that you can be your authentic self with is, in my opinion, just so important

Julie McGillivray
to our own growth and development. And so that’s why in my classroom, I’m really mindful of providing a safe space for students to be themselves.

Sam Demma
I always tell people in my life that old is not an age, it’s an energy. And you have young energy.

Julie McGillivray
Gray hair.

Sam Demma
Hey, I’m starting to get gray hair too, and I’m only 25. So it has to be an energy or else I got to start dying it. I don’t know what’s going on. This has been such a lovely conversation, Julie. I really appreciate you taking some time to talk about your beliefs about education and building relationships with students and staff. The idea of kindness costing nothing, paying huge returns, and sharing a few personal stories. I am a fan, and I will continue to follow your journey. And if someone else is listening and wanting to reach out and connect with you, another educator, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Julie McGillivray
Probably by my email only because I’m that old that I’m not big on social media.

Sam Demma
That’s okay.

Julie McGillivray
I work for the Halton Catholic District School Board happily and you can find me there.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much for coming on the show, Julia. I really appreciate your time and all the hard work you’re doing.

Julie McGillivray
Sam, thank you so much for writing an amazing book. Thank you. It’s helped my students immensely and thank you for all of the work that you do.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Julie McGillivray

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 29, 2025 by Counsellor Education Educator School Counsellor 0

Marc Iturriaga — Executive Director of the Mohawk Students’ Association and founder of Bonobo Consulting

Marc Iturriaga — Executive Director of the Mohawk Students’ Association and founder of Bonobo Consulting
About Marc Iturriaga

Marc Iturriaga is the Executive Director of the Mohawk Students’ Association and founder of Bonobo Consulting, whose mission is highlighting the importance of fostering belonging within our society. He holds a Bachelor of Arts degree and a Master of Arts in Leadership. 

Marc started his career as a student leader in both Campus Rec and Residence Life, and upon graduation, he worked as a Program Coordinator for national and international youth development programs, an International Program Coordinator for the University of Toronto, a Residence Life Manager for McMaster University, and eventually back into Collegiate Recreation as an Intramural Coordinator for the University of Waterloo, eventually leaving after 13 years as the Associate Director of Recreation and Business Development. Marc has served as the Recreation Program Manager at Mount Royal University and the Executive Director of the Genesis Centre, a multi-purpose community complex acting as a recreational, cultural, social and educational hub of the community in the most culturally diverse quadrant of Calgary.

Currently in his role as Executive Director for the Mohawk Students’ Association, Marc is on a journey to ensure students are supported, have a voice, and feel like they belong in their higher education experience.

He’s a family man, cat dad, LEGO master, Comic nerd, and basketball enthusiast who can pretty much identify most 80’s shows by their theme song.

Connect with Marc Iturriaga: Email | Instagram | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Mohawk Students’ Association
Bonobo Consulting

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode on the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by a special guest. Marc Iturriaga serves as Executive Director of the Mohawk Students Association and the founder of Bonobo Consulting, leveraging his extensive higher education experience to champion student belonging and support. His diverse career path includes roles in international youth development, residence life management, recreation coordination, and executive leadership at community complexes like Calgary’s Genesis Centre.

Sam Demma
With a master’s in leadership and commitment to fostering inclusive environments, Marc brings both professional expertise and personal passion to his work, balancing his dedication to student advocacy with family life, Lego building, comic book enthusiasm and basketball fandom. Marc, thank you so much for being here on the show today.

Marc Iturriaga
Oh, Sam, thank you. That’s got to be the wickedest intro I’ve ever heard for myself. I got to write that down. That was awesome. Thank you for that.

Sam Demma
Just let me tour with you when you go to these events.

Marc Iturriaga
Done.

Sam Demma
Tell me and the audience a little bit about who you are and what got you into working with young people and in the world of education.

Marc Iturriaga
Yeah, so my high school career and elementary school, I was a good easy student. So I skipped a grade. So I was always the youngest in my grade school came easy to me, didn’t need to try high 90s in high school, and decided to go to University of Waterloo for actuarial science. So I really loved math. And then first year university hit and my whole world changed.

Marc Iturriaga
We talked about being from Pickering. So I had a culture there that I was experienced and comfortable with. And then when I hit university, whole new world of different people, music, lived experiences. And let’s just say my first year university experience wasn’t great. It started off with maybe failing four of nine classes and maybe I would have failed that fifth if I hadn’t dropped it. And a lot of that came not from, well, part of it was, you know, attendance and those pieces. It wasn’t that I couldn’t handle it. It was I was just involved in this whole new world and I loved it. So I was getting more involved with intramurals. I started reffing. I started working on campus and joining clubs and different pieces. And though I got my marks back on track and I switched, you know, course loads to something a little bit more down my line because I realized I didn’t want to do math for the rest of my life. Actuarial science is the business of insurance. Nothing’s more boring to me than that. But as I got more engaged and involved with the people around me, yeah, I just realized how interested I was in people. So I became a student leader and it was those opportunities that came my way, some by luck, some by, you know, a little bit of grit and determination, but I had so many different experiences in my university career that led me to say, hey, I can actually do this for a living, and that’s what really brought me into those things. So I started off maybe wanting to go to teacher’s college. I worked at a private school as a dorm master when I first graduated, which led me to go, I don’t want to do formal education anymore. So I’m out. Great, great experience, but it’s one of those things you learn what you don’t want to do sometimes is a valuable experience. And then from there, I worked with youth programs. And then I got back into higher ed, where I was in residence manager and all those pieces. And I realized that I had a lot of influence and impact in those positions with young people and students and realizing you didn’t need that formal teaching piece. I love teachable moments. I love just like being in the moment with students and learning together. And I think that’s the biggest piece about what brought me here and to where I am today is that I’ve worked for institutions for most of my career. This is the first time I’m really focused 100% on working for and with the students in my role. And it’s just so rewarding. And really for me, as long as it involves students and youth in a leadership capacity, and let me preface that by also saying, I believe all students are leaders, just by taking a journey of education and just growth, that is leadership to me. Yeah, nothing could be more rewarding. And I think the coolest part too is, so I’m 50, I just turned 50. I still feel like I’m 27, because I feel like I’m older than the students that usually I work with, but not that far removed, but I realized now that I am. But it is, I still learn from, from my experiences working with them as much, you know, it’s corny, but they give me as much as I give them. And it’s just an awesome journey. And I don’t think I would ever not do anything that doesn’t involve the youth and students in some way.

Sam Demma
Teachable moments. Can you walk me through what that means in your mind, or what one of those has looked like in your own life or the life of a young person? And the reason I ask is because I believe that curriculum is secondary to those teachable moments, especially the moments I remember most when I was a student were not when my teacher was standing and teaching us something at the front of the classroom, but when they pulled me to the side of their desk and talked me through something that really mattered to me. So tell me more about that.

Marc Iturriaga
Yeah.

Marc Iturriaga
So it’s about outputs and outcomes. And I stress this a lot. My staff and students would go, oh, here goes Marc again with outcomes. Curriculum is an output, right? The outcome is the learning, right?

Marc Iturriaga
The realization, the reflection, the growth of the individual. The outputs are teachable moments and tests and all these pieces. My experience has been those teachable moments are the ones where we’re most successful in achieving those outcomes of growth. And you’re right, it is about that one-on-one conversation. I’m a one-on-one guy. I really love the sit down chats and all that. And I know the best way I’ve learned, even though I was so great.

Marc Iturriaga
I mean, I was great at taking tests and book learning, writing essays. Like I felt like I gamed the system because I just knew how it worked, but the true growth for me was sitting down with someone, especially when I failed, who sat me down and really helped me reflect and understand, okay, what happened here? Did you achieve your outcome? So for me, actually, one of the biggest learning moments that I really said, okay, this is how I want to be engaged as a mentor, is I remember I had a task, I was working in a youth program, I had to find host families. And I was there four months, I found five out of nine host families thought I was doing good in the first month. Cool, the rest will come to me. And then within two weeks of the program, three of them had quit. And now I got two host families, I need nine. And I got a group of students from all across Canada and Ecuador about to arrive on a bus, and they needed a place to stay and I didn’t have it. And it took my boss and mentor who came all the way down, it was up North in Kapuskasing, so they were from Toronto, they had to drive all the way up. They didn’t do it, there was no Zoom, right? They weren’t doing a phone call.

Marc Iturriaga
They knew I need to talk to you one-on-one. And they sat me And so I said, but I did this and I did that and go, all great. Didn’t work, did it? So you need to change gears. Your outcome is you need those families. And they started saying, you need to go on the, on the radio. You need to go talk to pastors. You need to do whatever you can. And I realized those were things like, I kind of don’t want to do that. And it’s like, yeah, but you gotta. And that’s what it took.

Marc Iturriaga
And it was really that hands-on conversation that really made me realize that that’s what I want to have when I speak with individuals and staff and students is that teachable moment. So what is happening in the moment and sitting down and going, let’s reflect on that.

Marc Iturriaga
And it’s not about what answers I have, it’s what that individual sees and understands and reflects on their own experience to go, yeah, you know, you’re right. Because my boss wasn’t telling me anything I didn’t know already.

Marc Iturriaga
It’s just, I didn’t want to do it. And so again, that flow, and sometimes it just takes that person. And so that’s where I say too, that that relationship is both ways. And so I’ve got to earn that trust when I have that moment with others. And that’s a huge piece to say, hey, you’re trusting me to sit you down and walk you through your experience. That’s pretty important too. And so that’s, again, it’s about that interpersonal connection. That’s why I love the teachable moments.

Sam Demma
When you think of your experiences as a university student, maybe in that first year when things were not going the way you expected them to, were there any individuals that provided mentorship to you, that redirected your path? And if so, who were those people and what did they do for you?

Marc Iturriaga
Yeah, one was my mom who just took it and understood. I was so surprised how much she did not berate me. You know, you know, you accuse me of like, well, what are you wasting our money on? You know, and all those things, you know, understanding. And I know she was disappointed, but just that, knowing I had someone in my in my corner that way and saying, you know what, I trust in the past, you figured this out. I’m going to give you the space to figure this out as well. I’m sure I got a couple of conversations that were, you know, a little bit more on the what are you doing side. But it was giving me that space to figure it out. And I greatly appreciate that. The other was, I would say it’s observations of friends that I saw of realizing where they were going and what I could learn from their lived experience and realizing how different that was that I didn’t feel pigeonholed to say, well, I have to be doing X because that’s what’s expected of me. It was about that freedom to go, hey, there is a Y. Let me figure that out. And that was when I realized I learned. And it wasn’t first year university. It was actually second year when I actually had to move out due to my living arrangements. I had to find a new place to rent from and I found a whole bunch of new guys to live with who I didn’t know. There were different programs. And one of them just said, saw me just kind of sitting around and going, what are you doing? And it’s like, I don’t know, like I’m just going to class. He goes, go do something. And one of the things that brought me on my journey too was he actually said, well, you should get hooked on crack. And I was like, what? Now, let me preface that is the Campus Rec Advisory Council, C-R-A-C.

Marc Iturriaga
All right.

Marc Iturriaga
So he knew I liked basketball. He knew I liked, you know, get involved. So just come on this. So it took that invitation of I didn’t know I could get involved that way. And that was my stepping stone to get it and I was highly involved in high school so I don’t know why I didn’t check it out at university but it was that invitation from a roommate that got me involved and that’s where I met my future boss in an intramural coordinator as a student so he was kind of my mentor through that time giving me more leadership opportunity and to the point where when I did some roles in the like residence life and all that I was looking for a permanent role and he called me when I got married. He called me and said hey I’m going to teacher’s college you want my job. I went uh sure so he walked me through and that’s what got me on my kind of larger career for a long time was with athletics and recreation and campus recreation. And that was a you know there’s a 13 year with just the University of Waterloo but is where I’m involved now with a lot of other organizations, still my passion and yeah it all came from that personal invitation from a leader. And that’s the other piece about curriculum. Curriculum doesn’t invite you to anything. It just gives you the info.

Marc Iturriaga
It just gives you the data. It’s the people that invite you, that welcome you, that include you, that help you in that growth. That’s the power, and you’re right, like curriculum, it’s just a book. And you can get lots of insights from book, but there’s so much that an inanimate object doesn’t do for you in your growth and education that an individual does.

Sam Demma
The title of this episode, How I Got Hooked on Crack. Of course not, but it’s too funny. You said, knowing I had someone in my corner, those are the words you use to describe your mom’s impact on you when you were going through university.

Sam Demma
And I think that’s a beautiful way to position it for any relationship with somebody who’s supporting you. When you truly know someone is in your corner, you can have the difficult conversations because in your heart, you know, they’re doing it. They’re trying to share these things with you for your best interests. And they have your genuine best interests in their hearts too.

Marc Iturriaga
How do you build a relationship with a staff member or a young person to the point where they do know, yes, this person is in my corner and is rooting for me? It’s hard, right? Because I think the biggest thing is that it takes time. It takes consistency, right? You got to behave that way constantly. And the one time we used to say this a lot in Resonance Life is they don’t remember the nine times that you were there for them. They remember the one time that they let you down, right? And so and that comes from that, you know, role modeling, and hey, we’re all human, we slip, we make mistakes, you make bad judgment calls. But it’s got to be that consistent, you cannot say, hey, I got your back. And then two seconds later, not, right. And so how do you create intentional interactions and pieces that demonstrate, I got your back, right? And that is more importantly, usually through failure than it is through successes. It’s easy to celebrate success and going, you rocked that, you’re awesome. It’s when they failed and they go, I failed you. And it’s like, you have not failed me or anyone. You learned, hopefully.

Marc Iturriaga
You’re gonna fail me if three, four more times you continue to repeat the same mistakes and not get to where we need to get to. But those are all learning pieces, right? And that’s the most important. So when did my mom have my back the most is when I was failing, not when I was being successful.

Marc Iturriaga
Cause when I was successful, she was kind of like, you got this, I can help you. It’s when we’re at our lowest that you need someone there to either support you, push you, do something to say, you got this. Because in the end, it’s I got this, right? I have to have it. I can have all the mentors in the world holding me up and trying to, but if I’m not going to do the work to actually get to where we need to go, it’s not gonna happen. So it’s like, they’re the support, but you still gotta put in the work, right? And that’s where I know I did. I put in the work to get to where I am.

Marc Iturriaga
There’s a lot of luck. There’s a lot of privilege as well. I get that, but there’s also a lot of work and a lot of learning along the way that if I didn’t take those opportunities that when those supports times were happening, yeah, I may not be where I am today.

Sam Demma
My favorite authors is a gentleman named Jim Rohn who’s passed away now, but he said learn to celebrate in the spring if you’ve planted really well in the fall and and learn to accept if there are no fruits in the spring or the summer that it’s because of your own previous actions and that the beautiful thing is another season will arrive where you can change the choices you make and hopefully reap a larger harvest. And I always think about that when I examine and reflect on my own life and how things are playing out and luck and privilege play a huge role, but labor does too.

Sam Demma
And most of the time our list of reasons why things aren’t working out doesn’t include our own name. And that’s like, it’s important that we put our own name on there if we want things to change. So I appreciate you sharing some of that as well. Tell me a little bit about what your role looks like today. You’ve worked in many different positions, and now you’re with the MSA.

Marc Iturriaga
So the coolest part about this role is that I was hired because I have an expertise, a lived experience that really relates to the operational pieces of the student association. So that is designing programs, having staff that support the student journey. Where a big gap was, was learning about student government and what that looks like.

Marc Iturriaga
Over the last four or five years, I’ve had a crash course in that. And the cool thing is I learned from so many different people that a lot of the work that we’re doing right now is ensuring that our outcomes are what are important, not our output. So our outcomes is that students have voices that students are supported.

Marc Iturriaga
And the more we look at those outcomes, we can start looking at some of the structures and systems that maybe are barriers or constraints for there’s some gaps that are preventing us to get to those outcomes. The other cool pieces is doing that collaboratively. So though I’m tasked to look at these things, I can’t do it on my own. I’m not going around saying, I know how to fix this, here’s this. It’s about making sure that if I’m going to fix a problem, I need the people with the lived experience to come and talk to me about it. I need to hear their voices. I need to see other lenses. I need to see diverse opinions. I need to see opposite opinions to really help us do that. So right now, our focus is on how do we, especially at you know in Ontario and the the university and college system being affected by international student enrollment, there’s a whole new lesson of learning to happen that we need to do together because we have so many people with different touch points with students and their needs that I can’t, I can’t assume I know the needs of every student there, it’s impossible. We need others in our circles, in our relationships to help us define that and help us move forward. So that’s what I really appreciate about my role is that I’m still learning. I’ve always said, and I used to tell students that, if you’re in a student role, like a job or a leadership role, and you think you’re not learning anymore and you’re just going through the motions, I can’t use you anymore because it’s time for you to move on, time to give that opportunity for someone else right and the kicker is there’s always something to learn but it comes back to that what you said who’s putting in the labor and the work to do that it’s easy to go I did this before go through the motions but then you’ve lost the outcome, right? You’re just focused on outputs. And so when we start losing sight of that, it’s time to move on. And I’ve done that with student leaders to say, hey, maybe time for you to take a break because I could use some other, even though it would be easier to have them because they know what they need to do and they already know the task. But I love, you mentioned too that, what I love about, especially higher ed is that cyclical nature. You got a term and things didn’t go right, hey, you got a new term. You got a new term and it’s not for everyone, but I love it because every new term we can go back, what did we do well? How can we repeat that success? Hey, what did we not do well and what can we work on that? Again, it always changes because the next generation of student comes in and those needs change every time. And so we need to be nimble. We need to keep learning and that that’s exciting. That’s what I love.

Sam Demma
I feel the passion coming through the mic for this this podcast. So you’re in the right position. You’re doing the work you’re supposed to be doing. It’s obvious and I appreciate you spending some time sharing your journey through education, some of your beliefs around building relationships with young people on the podcast.

Sam Demma
Keep up the amazing work you’re doing at the MSA and just know that I’m rooting you on and I’m excited to just continue following the journey. If there’s someone listening, Marc, and they wanna reach out to you, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Marc Iturriaga
It’s a Mohawk Student Association. It’s, you know, my first name, last name, I’m on the website. You can see us at, you know, https://mohawkstudents.ca/.

Marc Iturriaga
Yeah. But for me, outside of that, I do work with a higher ed organization, sports organization to help foster that sense of belonging amongst, you know, especially young people, but it is with Fostering Belonging and staff, and they can reach me at bonobo-consulting.com. And I love to talk, you know, help organizations really understand that impact they have when it comes to fostering belonging.

Sam Demma
Awesome, Marc, thank you so, so much. Keep up the amazing work and we’ll talk again soon.

Marc Iturriaga
Awesome. Thanks, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Marc Iturriaga

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 27, 2025 by Educator Entrepreneur Executive Director 0

Meagan Morris — Vice Principal at St. Joseph High School in the Ottawa Catholic School Board

Meagan Morris — Vice Principal at St. Joseph High School in the Ottawa Catholic School Board
About Meagan Morris

Meagan Morris is the current Vice Principal at St. Joseph High School in the Ottawa Catholic School Board, where she has served for nearly 25 years. Her career with the OCSB has included roles as a classroom and resource teacher, coach, guidance counsellor, and administrator. She has a particular passion for supporting students in grades 7 and 8.

Meagan is a firm believer in servant leadership and is deeply committed to supporting others in achieving their full potential. A strong advocate for extracurricular activities, she has coached the school’s Girls on the Run program, among other initiatives. Meagan believes that student success is rooted in positive relationships with every member of the school community, and she strives to create an environment where students feel seen and heard. Recently added to the OCSB principal eligibility list, Meagan is eager to continue her leadership journey as a principal.

Connect with Meagan Morris: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Joseph High School
Ottawa Catholic School Board

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Meagan Morris. As Vice Principal at St. Joseph High School in Ottawa, Meagan brings nearly 25 years of diverse educational experiences to her role, having served as a classroom teacher, resource teacher, guidance counselor, and coach. Her dedication to servant leadership and particular passion for supporting intermediate students has shaped her approach to creating an inclusive school environment where relationships are at the heart of student success. Recently added to the principal eligibility list, Meagan continues to demonstrate her commitment to fostering student growth through both academic support and initiatives like Girls on the Run. Meagan, thank you so much for taking the time to be here today.

Meagan Morris
Thanks for having me, Sam. I appreciate it.

Sam Demma
Do me a favor, share a little bit about who you are with the educator listening to this and how you got into education.

Meagan Morris
Okay, so I am actually born and raised in Ottawa and I am a product. I work for the Ottawa Catholic School Board but I’m also a product for the Ottawa Catholic School Board but I’m also a product of the Ottawa Catholic School Board. So from K to 12 or OAC back then, I attended schools in the OCSB and you know when I was graduating high school I wasn’t really sure about what I wanted to do,

Meagan Morris
which is not unusual for high school graduates. And I had a friend who encouraged me to apply to the concurrent education program at Queens. And he said, if you don’t get into the teacher’s college portion, you’re still gonna do an undergrad at Queens. And so I applied thinking,

Meagan Morris
this could be a good opportunity. And through the application process, you have to identify your work that has supported education, you know, in jobs and volunteering. And by going through the process of the application, I realized just how much work I had done with youth, and how that was an area where I felt comfortable, and it was sort of an area that I was drawn to. So I ended up being successful and I did the concurrent education program at Queens, but then I still wasn’t convinced

Meagan Morris
that I wanted to be a teacher. I just, I think sometimes when it’s too obvious, you tend to doubt it a little bit. Yeah, so I took some time and I took a year and went traveling. And I actually was offered a teaching job

Meagan Morris
by email when I was in Thailand. So I was in Thailand. Yeah, I was backpacking through Thailand. And a principal emailed me to offer me a position. And I was skeptical at first. I wasn’t even sure I wanted to go back to Ottawa.

Meagan Morris
I didn’t know what I wanted to do. And I remember going out for dinner with a group of backpackers and mulling over the idea. And to them, it was a no brainer. I mean, this was a career that I was going to be starting and it was secure and it was a job and I hadn’t had none of that. So I said yes. And I started in 2001 and never really looked back. So that’s how I got into teaching.

Sam Demma
You mentioned that you traveled. Did you travel because people in your life told you you should? I think that travel is such a beautiful opportunity to see the world, expand perspectives, build our personality and character. Tell me a little bit more about that decision.

Meagan Morris
You know what? Actually, it was a bit of the opposite. Nobody encouraged me to travel. And it was something that I think I just felt like I needed to do. Partly, I think, because at the risk of sounding cliche, I just wanted a new experience that would provide me with a different perspective. And I felt like, you know, this was an hour and ever opportunity and I had no one to go with. The timing didn’t work out well that I could have friends who would could travel with me.

Meagan Morris
They were starting careers and things were happening. So I actually went by myself. And so I traveled through New Zealand, Australia, Southeast Asia, all on my own. And that was such an incredible experience. And I remember my parents being quite nervous about me going. I was still relatively young, I think I was about 23.

Meagan Morris
And my mom actually kept copies of all the emails that I sent her. And I recently, she gave them to me, I recently read them. And it was such an incredible time in my life. And I, and to be honest, I was really scared. I remember getting off the plane in the first country I landed in New Zealand and not having a clue about what to do and just made my way and it was, it was really cool.

Sam Demma
That’s how a lot of educators feel in their first year working in a school. They’re trying to figure it out. You have this passion and this idea and this motivation to get started. And then when you land in the classroom for the first time, you’re like, whoa, this is new. I got to figure out the next step I need to take. And I think it’s the same for any new experience that we have. When you think back to your first year teaching or working with young people, maybe it was even outside of the school walls, what advice do you think you needed to hear that in hindsight you could share with a person who’s just getting started in education now?

Meagan Morris
You know, I did get good advice in my first year because you are right. Your first year of teaching is like no other. And I think the advice that I got was not to be so hard on myself. So it was to invoke a bit of self-compassion because of course I was going to make mistakes. I was going to deliver lessons that would flop. I was going to mishandle classroom behavior.

Meagan Morris
There were things that were gonna happen that I was certainly not expected to do perfectly. And instead of wasting time and energy on doubting myself and chastising myself for not handling it maybe in a way somebody else would, I needed to just forgive myself and move on and learn from it. And I had a resource teacher that worked with me and she had quite a few years of experience and she was the one to say, you need to just put it in a box and move on and forgive yourself and take what you can from it, but don’t beat yourself up over it. And I think that’s the biggest piece of advice. Nobody wants you to be perfect. They just want you to try.

Sam Demma
You mentioned when you were filling out the application for teaching, you had this reflective moment where you realized I’ve done so much with youth already. I’ve worked with so many youth. 

Meagan Morris
Yeah. And I was really young, like, I think I was probably 10 or 11. And I had moms in the neighborhood probably thinking I was a lot older than I was asking me to watch their kids. And it just came natural. I mean, I gravitated towards the energy of kids. And just the feedback that I got, because there’s so much, you know, there’s so little restraint in terms of the positive and the negative. But then that moved into positions where I was working at afterschool literacy programs.

Meagan Morris
When I was in high school, I was doing sports camps. I was lifeguarding. I was doing all of these things that just, you know, I sometimes just fall into. So one experience would get me the next and often I was tapped on the shoulder.

Meagan Morris
And it was just a really happy place for me to be around that energy. And I remember my mom telling me that that was a bit of a gift that I have. And I guess I didn’t see it because when you’re looking at it from the front end,

Meagan Morris
it can be overwhelming to look at all your options. But in this case, it’s proven to be the absolute right decision.

Sam Demma
It sounds like serving others is a philosophy you follow, whether it’s working with initiatives like Girls on the Run or wanting to help and support young people, and now even the staff in the building. Where did that idea of, or philosophy of servant leadership originate for you in your life?

Sam Demma
Was there a role model or, you know, I think of my grandfather when I think about servant leadership, and I think that’s where I got it from. Where did that philosophy start for you?

Meagan Morris
It started with my parents. And my parents were, my parents are both retired now, but they were civil servants, but they believed in civic duty. They believed in being part of a community. They were great neighbors.

Meagan Morris
They are excellent friends. And they instilled in me, and it’s something that I have three kids of my own and it’s something that I share with my kids. And I can remember my two things that my parents would say to me, are one to be true to yourself. And the other was to give more than you take. And the idea that we’re put on the earth not to be takers, but to be givers. And that, you know, we have to share this space with billions of people, and we don’t have the right to take away. We have a responsibility to give. And that was the message that I got from my parents regularly. Certainly they said it, but they acted on it. So it 100% came from my parents. I have a brother who’s a criminal prosecutor. I have another brother who’s a criminal prosecutor. I have another brother who’s a police officer and my other brother’s in civil service. So we were just taught that that’s the way you operate.

Sam Demma
I love the value of giving more than you take. I also think that a lot of happiness and fulfillment comes from the providing and giving more than it does the receiving or taking in my personal experiences. So I think it’s a really big win-win scenario where you feel really good about the work you’re doing and so many other people benefit from it.

Meagan Morris
But 100% and I think that’s what makes it a vocation, right? Is that you believe in the work that you’re doing. And we know, I mean, there’s, we know that people, you know, get so much satisfaction by contributing, by being a contributing member brings that level of purpose and satisfaction that gives your job, quote unquote job meaning, you know?

Sam Demma
Yeah, you have a particular passion for supporting intermediate students, you know? Yeah. You have a particular passion for supporting intermediate students, grade seven and eight students. What unique challenges do you see in this specific age group and what opportunities exist for impact?

Meagan Morris
So when I first started teaching, I was teaching at the intermediate level. So I taught at the intermediate level for 10 years. And I taught at a school that was, we consider a family support school. So there were a lot of economic challenges.

Meagan Morris
There were a lot of socioeconomic needs. And that was new to me. Like I was a suburb kid who back in the nineties when I went to high school, it was predominantly white. And so I didn’t have that experience with diversity. And so I remember leaving that school and saying that, the students at this school taught me more than I could have ever have taught them. And particularly at the intermediate level, they’re really finding their way. They’re not elementary level, they’re not K to six level in the sense that they’re still following rules because the rules are in place. They’re starting to question things, they want autonomy, they’re dealing with hormones, they’re dealing with interpersonal skills, they’re thrown in our case with our board being a seven grade seven to 12 model, they’re technically thrown into a high school and learning to navigate that. There are so many challenges that it creates a sort of perfect storm of potential behavior, but also for growth. And they’re still young enough that they are so impressionable.

Meagan Morris
So it’s a great time to take even those behavioral moments, even, you know, dysregulated actions. It’s an opportunity for learning. And I just feel like they are really special. A lot of people can be intimidated at that intermediate level for all those reasons and can shy away. But I just think it’s a really special time because they’re really in flux. And so it’s so important that they have people in their lives that see them and hear them and validate what they’re going through.

Sam Demma
You’ve worked as a teacher in intermediate and junior high, high school. You’ve worked as a coach. You’ve also worked as a guidance counselor. How has your experience as a guidance counselor shaped your beliefs around leadership today and ensuring students feel seen, heard and supported?

Meagan Morris
So that’s a great question because when I first, you know, as I was moving through teaching, my end game was always to be a guidance counselor. I didn’t envision myself being an administrator, it was sort of the leadership piece that moved me in that direction. But my real passion was that sort of guidance, counselling support.

Meagan Morris
My undergraduate degree is a psychology degree. And so at some points, I thought about going in different directions and maybe pursuing a master’s in psychology, but in the end I went the teaching route and so it lent itself really well to being a guidance counsellor. and it just the perspective you get when you are able to have some one-on-one time with students and understand them, understand the motivation behind their their choices and their successes and and perhaps lack of successes is so important because you can you put things in perspective and you also remember that you’re teaching and working and supporting the whole student, not just the academic side. And I think in the classroom, sometimes teachers don’t know the whole story. I think it’s important to get to know your students, but sometimes you don’t know all the details. But I think teachers have to assume, you always have to assume that there is something you’re working with.

Sam Demma
It’s that backpack.

Meagan Morris
It’s the, and I, and that’s why when you came to our school and gave your presentation, I thought this is resonate so well with me because everybody has a backpack, everybody has something. And they’re never going to be able to work with that backpack unless they feel like somebody understands what’s in it. And a guidance counselor, being a guidance counselor, I would also say that being a guidance counselor before being a vice principal has given me a level of empathy, which is needed. I mean, you know?

Sam Demma
The question I’m curious about, and I think another educator might be thinking the same thing, is how do you build that trust and relationship with a student where it gets to the point where they’re comfortable sharing with you as the caring adult, some of the things that are in their backpack? I think there’s a lot of educators that would love to be able to support their students. And not that every teacher can be a counselor, that’s not possible. But for them to have some of that context would be helpful.

Sam Demma
I think that there’s something special about guidance counselors and the way they approach those conversations that enables those students to feel safe and feel supported. What are your thoughts on building relationships with young people?

Meagan Morris
So I think, you know, sometimes what we do is we rely on our own experiences with school. And a lot has changed. And our experiences, and that’s one thing that I learned, my experience was completely different than a lot of the students that I came into contact with.

Meagan Morris
And I think it’s really important first to be vulnerable, to understand that I’m not teaching them necessarily. Sure, there’s things that, there’s curriculum that I’m teaching them, and I’m mentoring them, them and I’m supporting them and I’m an example in the classroom, but we’re kind of learning together. And so you have to be vulnerable enough to show them that we’re learning together. I’m learning about you. I’m learning about who you are, how you learn, how this works with you. So I think you have to be vulnerable. And one thing that I always say to teachers that I work with is you can’t take behavior or dysregulated actions as personal. It’s not about you. We know that every student wants to succeed. And when they’re not succeeding, it’s because something is happening that is preventing that. And nine times out of ten, it’s not about the teacher. And so you have to have that level of unconditional support.

Meagan Morris
And when they know that you’re still going to be there after they’ve had a dysregulated moment, or they’ve, you know, done something that’s not appropriate, if they know that you’re still going to be there, then they start to trust you. And then that’s not appropriate. If they know that you’re still going to be there, then they start to trust you. And then that relationship starts forming. But at the end of the day, it can be, behavior in a classroom can be frustrating.

Meagan Morris
It can be exhausting. It can be, you know, but behavior comes from somewhere. And understanding that it’s not about us really takes the pressure off us, but it also helps us to continue to support those students.

Meagan Morris
And that’s how you build relationships is by having them see you as somebody they can trust.

Sam Demma
I’m assuming one of the other ways you build trust with young people is giving them some time. Is that one of the reasons you got involved in extracurricular activities, running programs, like girls on the run? Tell me more about when in your career, you started getting involved in more extracurricular activities and what prompted that?

Meagan Morris
So when I first started teaching, I was a phys ed teacher. So that lends itself to a lot of coaching. And it’s actually a nice segue into counseling because when you are a phys ed teacher and you’re a coach, you are always seeing students in an unstructured environment. A phys ed class in grade seven and eight can be organized chaos. So you’re often seeing students in their natural habitat. And so it allows you a way of getting to know students in a way beyond curriculum delivery. And coaching also lets you see the skill set that students may not be able to demonstrate in the classroom. They can show, you know, when they’re on a team or when they’re part of a club, they can demonstrate leadership, they can demonstrate teamwork, they can demonstrate collaboration, compassion, all of those things. And so I got started out of necessity, because when you’re a phys ed teacher, you coach. But then I never really left it. And I had the opportunity this year to run the Girls on the Run program, which is basically a run program for students who identify as female. And in addition to training them to run a 5k, we also work on the social emotional side.

Meagan Morris
So you do a little bit of running, a little bit of internal work, and then it culminates in a 5k race. So super empowering. And I think it’s just, especially now as a vice principal, it’s so great to be working with students in a proactive role instead of a reactive role.

Sam Demma
That program sounds amazing. I remember when I was graduating from elementary school and starting high school that I ran cross country for the first time. And some of my fondest memories from elementary school and starting high school that I ran cross country for the first time. And some of my fondest memories from elementary were running the perimeter of the fence in our schoolyard after the school day ended with our cross country teacher. We didn’t have the social emotional learning aspect of it, but I enjoyed those moments and I remember them a lot. I’m sure you’re creating moments like that for all of the girls for all the students who identify as female students in that program. So that’s has it been around for a while? Is it a new program?

Meagan Morris
Well, apparently it’s been around for a long time. It started in the United States, but it just recently came on our radar at the OCSB. There was a principal in the elementary panel who kind of put it out to the OCSB and a bunch of us jumped on it. And it’s really, really cool. But I mean, I agree with you, we know that getting involved in extracurricular has protective factors, right? It supports mental health, and it supports well being. What’s happening in the classroom, obviously, is paramount. But those are the things that students remember. They remember extracurriculars. They remember field trips. They remember those connections They made with their coaches and their club, you know leaders That’s what makes and you know, if we learn nothing from Kovac that’s what makes the high school experience what it is because When we don’t have that we’re not having different forms of connection, which is so important.

Sam Demma
As you prepare for this next step, I know you’re a vice principal now, you’re filling in as a principal this week. As you prepare for that next step, what vision do you have for creating a culture that balances academic excellence and strong relationship building?

Meagan Morris
Well, I think like you mentioned in the introduction, I do believe in servant leadership. And that does come back from what I know. But I think when you are leading a school community, it’s like an inverted pyramid. And the administration is actually at the bottom of the pyramid.

Meagan Morris
And our job is to be of service to every level above us. And that’s your staff, that’s your students, that’s the family, that’s the community. And so that is going to help those relationships build. And that is going to get the best out of your school. Like right now, I’m responsible for supporting the intermediate panel, which is a love for me. But one of the things that I’ve done this year is I’ve done a monthly lunch and learn. So we have a lot of new teachers. And I recognize that, you know, when you’re in a really big school, like we are, it can sometimes be hard for new teachers to connect with mentors. So once a month, I bring everybody together. We order pizza, we hang out and we talk about different topics, because I know that if I’m supporting the teachers and the teachers feel like we have a solid relationship, they feel seen and heard. That’s only going to translate to the connections those teachers are building with students and their families. So my job really is to make sure the staff is in a healthy position to do the best and to do right by the students that they work with.

Sam Demma
That whole concept of inverted pyramid is such a powerful way to think about leadership, not only in the context of a school, but any organization. I really appreciate you sharing that. For anyone listening to this who wants to ask you a question or reach out and connect, what would be the best way for them to get in touch with you?

Meagan Morris
Well, I shared my Instagram, but also I would almost say email. Email is the best. Yeah.

Sam Demma
We’ll make sure to pop that in the show notes for anyone listening. Meagan, this was a lovely conversation. Thank you so much for taking the time, sharing your journey into education, some of your beliefs around building relationships with students and administration. I really enjoyed this conversation.

Meagan Morris
Well, thank you, Sam. Well, thank you, Sam. I really enjoyed it too.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Meagan Morris

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 22, 2025 by Education Educator Vice Principal 0

Benjamin Smith — Cross Curricular Head of Equity and Lead Student Success Teacher at Chinguacousy Secondary School

Benjamin Smith — Cross Curricular Head of Equity and Lead Student Success Teacher at Chinguacousy Secondary School
About Benjamin Smith

Benjamin Smith is the Cross Curricular Head of Equity and Lead Student Success Teacher at Chinguacousy Secondary School in Brampton, Ontario. He is a 2023 national recipient of the Prime Minister’s Award for Teaching Excellence, the highest national honour for teachers in Canada, is as 2024 recipient of Queen Elizabeth II’s Platinum Jubilee Pin, two time recipient of the Peel District School Board’s Award of Distinction (2017 & 2019), and an Ontario Secondary School Teachers’ Federation Certificate of Achievement recipient (2017).

Ben has had the privilege of learning and working with educators and community partners from across the globe, including being an ambassador to international and national delegations visiting the Peel District School Board in learning more about culturally responsive and relevant learning practices, has worked with esteemed community partners ranging from Ontario’s Poet Laureate, Randell Adjei, Anishinaabe activist, advocate and artist, Sarain Fox, nationally recognized chef, Roger Mooking, nationally renowned civil rights activist, youth empowerment expert, and former CFL player, Orlando Bowen, and rising motivational speaker and youth excellence advocate, Sam Demma, and has experience serving in nearly every facet of public education.

Ben has been the driving force in transforming the Chinguacousy Secondary School’s culture through deep involvement and dedication. He empowers students from grades 9 to 12 to take ownership and agency over their educational journeys while simultaneously building teacher capacity to create classroom environments that are culturally responsive and accessible to students of all backgrounds and abilities.

Connect with Benjamin Smith: Email | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Chinguacousy Secondary School
District School Board

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by my friend and educator extraordinaire, Benjamin Smith. Ben is a nationally recognized educator at Chincusee Secondary School in Brampton, Ontario, who serves as the cross-curricular head of equity and lead student success teacher, earning Canada’s highest teaching honor with the 2023 Prime Minister’s

Sam Demma
Award for Teaching Excellence. His dedication to culturally responsive education has made him a sought after ambassador and collaborator, working with renowned activists, artists, and community leaders to enhance students’ educational experiences.

Sam Demma
A recipient of multiple distinguished awards, including the Queen Elizabeth II Platinum Jubilee Pin and the Peel District School Board’s Award of Distinction, Ben has demonstrated excellence across nearly every facet of public education. Ben also made me feel incredibly welcomed at their school community and doesn’t miss an opportunity to rep the Timberwolves merchandise.

Sam Demma
Ben, Benjamin, thank you so much for being here today on the show. I appreciate your time.

Benjamin Smith
Thanks so much for having me, Sam. And likewise, I echo the same sentiments when it comes to collaborating with you. Every opportunity, every space that I’ve shared with you is a space that your presence, your enthusiasm, your joy and your knowledge has really transformed.

Benjamin Smith
So when I had the invitation to chat with you today, I could not turn it down. So thank you.

Sam Demma
I know a little bit about you because of our interactions. The listener doesn’t yet. So please take a moment to introduce yourself and share what got you into education.

Benjamin Smith
Oh, wow.

Benjamin Smith
Well, hearing you list off some of my experiences, I got a bit of the imposter syndrome. I can’t lie. It’s like, wow, is that really where I am, who I am, those sorts of things. But I think that like in addition to or beyond some of what you shared already, I think it starts with authentically who I am. When I think about my lived experience and my ancestry, that informs so much of what I’ve been able to do, and it informs so much of what I prioritize in the space.

Benjamin Smith
So you know, for a long time when people asked me to sort of share my identity, I would start with well like I’m kind of what you envision or what at least what I envision to be a genuine and authentic Canadian. Because when I think about Canada, I think about a culturally diasporic space. I think about a space where people of all backgrounds, all lived experiences, all communities should feel welcomed. And that’s really what I try to do through education. So, I mean, when it comes to my parents, I come from mixed-race ancestry.

Benjamin Smith
First of all, my mom, who’s one of the hardest-working people I’ve ever met, she’s of European ancestry, Dutch-German, and some other components as well. And that gives me a lot of privilege with the way that I guess that I present, the way that I appear, and I recognize that and I try to use that privilege to pay it forward in supporting all communities. When it comes to my dad, my dad was born in 1949 in Durban, South Africa.

Benjamin Smith
And for those folks who may be listening who don’t know that much about international or African history, 1949 is the year that apartheid came into effect in South Africa. And he was the, I believe, the fourth child from my grandparents. When my grandparents got married, you know, it was fine for them to be together. They were a mixed race as well, of Welsh, African and South Asian ancestry, with some different mixes there.

Benjamin Smith
So when they were married, that was before that apartheid regime, it was fine. It was legal for them to be together. When my dad was conceived, it was legal for them to be together. But literally, while my grandmother was pregnant with my dad, the law has changed in South Africa and made it so, you know, their marriage was essentially illegal.

Benjamin Smith
So my dad was actually born, different parts of his family, you know, my aunt’s uncle, my grandparents were required to live in different parts of that city. And it’s through that Welsh ancestry that they were eventually able to emigrate to the UK and then to Canada. And then my parents met in rural Ontario. We’re talking Caledonia, Ontario. That’s where I was kind of born and raised,

Benjamin Smith
bringing in sort of the intersections of my, my ancestry, but then even when we get to that lived experience component, I’m growing up as a racialized person in the 90s, early 2000s, in a very rural area, but we’re directly connected to the largest Indigenous reservation, the First Nations of the Grand River, in the country. And thus, you know, growing up, some of my best friends from then and to this day are First Nations, are Métis. My first actual professional teaching experience was on Six Nations of the Grand River at Emily C. General

Benjamin Smith
Elementary School. So I think it’s really exploring those elements of my identity and my lived experience that informed so much of what I try to do now in the

Sam Demma
space of public education. Thank you for sharing that. It provides so much insight and context and I’m curious with your upbringing, what drove you towards education? You could have taken many paths. Why teaching? Why working with young people? Tell me more about

Benjamin Smith
the journey into education. Yeah, great question. Like it’s always in so many ways, it has always been my calling. To be entirely honest, the first thing that kind of put me on the track was kind of petty. I had a situation in elementary school where there was a teacher who I didn’t entirely see eye to eye with, so I’m like, you know what, I’m going to become a teacher so that I can try to change some of the system. But little did I know that that would literally become kind of my

Benjamin Smith
calling card as an educator, which maybe we’ll get to later. But then like more realistically, as I got into high school, started to explore my passions in greater detail, had some incredible educators, in elementary I had great educators too, don’t get me wrong. And then in high school I had some incredible educators who just went above and beyond, who made me begin to envision really what was possible in this space, and probably from about grade 10 I was contemplating, okay,

Benjamin Smith
do I want to go into law, do I want to go into politics, or do I want to go into education? And then, you know, my interests, my hobbies become more and more diverse. I’m heavily involved in the arts in high school, heavily involved in athletics in high school, beginning to scratch the surface with activism work. And, you know, in education,

Benjamin Smith
I could bring all of those things together. And that’s really what kind of sealed the deal for me. If we’re really going to pour ourselves into a profession, if we’re gonna try to keep showing up and be our best selves every day for 20, 30, 40 years, it needs to be something that really speaks

Benjamin Smith
to who we are at our core. And that’s why education became the pathway for me.

Sam Demma
You mentioned you had some phenomenal educators who went above and beyond. Can you speak about what those individuals did specifically that had such a big impact on you for the educator who’s listening and wants to have that same impact on the young people in their classrooms?

Benjamin Smith
Great question. The first thing that comes to mind for me is going beyond the curriculum and recognizing that what is captured in those documents, while it is obviously a goal that all educators need to teach to, like we need to ensure that we’re empowering students with the skill and the knowledge that so many professionals have vetted in developing those curriculum documents.

Benjamin Smith
But we also need to recognize that those documents don’t speak to and don’t serve every person who’s in the classroom. So those educators who really made the greatest impact on me were the ones who first took time to get to know me, to get to scratch the surface on,

Benjamin Smith
you know, what am I interested in? What is my pathway? What is my lived experience? Being willing to stick around a little bit at lunchtime, after school, maybe answer an email on the weekend or in the summertime, or honestly, even when I was in first year university, I had several high school teachers who remained

Benjamin Smith
available to give me some feedback to support me in those ways. And then those educators who ran the extracurriculars, like the extracurriculars in Canada, they’re not paid gigs. So the ones who showed up at seven o’clock in snowstorms like what we’re experiencing right now here in Ontario, the ones who gave up their lunchtime, who are eating their lunch during rehearsal or during practice, who made the time after school and were willing to listen before speaking.

Benjamin Smith
Those were some of the ones who really transformed my high school and elementary experiences.

Sam Demma
You mentioned that your calling card would be changing education in one way, shape, or form. Tell me more about that goal, that vision that you’ve had, and how you strive to bring to life now?

Benjamin Smith
Yeah, thank you. Thank you for that. I was really hoping we’d have a chance to talk about something like that. So my education is in English and history with a minor in theatre as well. So I read a lot, I’m exposed to a lot of ideas. So I’m really big on quotations and I start a lot of my classes with a quotation, a sort of provocation, get students thinking about that. And one of the activists, the philosophers who really I circle back to the most is Angela Davis. So many quotes that I can think of, but in

Benjamin Smith
relation to this question, I think about her quote with, I am no longer accepting the things I cannot change. I am changing the things I cannot accept. And to any young teachers who are listening to this, I never imagined in Teachers College or in my first few years teaching that some of the things I’ve been able to collaborate on,

Benjamin Smith
including the work that you and I have done, and then so many other educators I’ve had the privilege of working with, so many community partners. I had no idea that we could create some of the things that we have created and that we will continue to create. So, like, just keep pushing. And when you have an idea for bringing something to life, of course, getting to know, understand how identify an inequity, when you identify a part of the system that does not actually serve those individuals, those communities

Benjamin Smith
who need it most, that it is possible to ensure that the system adapts, adjusts in order to speak to those needs that you identify. So that’s kind of what comes to mind. I don’t know if you want to talk about examples. Should I share a couple of examples of that?

Sam Demma
I was going to say, tell me a little bit about the things you didn’t ever imagine you could create that you’ve brought to life that has been student-led. I got to witness the brilliance of the young people you bring together for the Unity Council and just the amazing work that they do. But I would love to hear more about the young people you bring together for the Unity Council and just the amazing work that they do. But I would love to hear more about the other projects you’ve worked on that have really opened up doors for people and amplified voices.

Benjamin Smith
Awesome, awesome. Yeah, and Unity Council, definitely one of those phenomenal spaces. I think the first thing that comes to mind, partially because we are recording in February, Black History Month, and one of the courses that I got to pilot and create in my school, really it kind of came about in collaboration with some of the other thought leaders in the Peel Board. And our global studies head, Brandon Osborne, I got a shout out, he ensured that all the resources were in place to make sure that it was successful.

Benjamin Smith
But I had the privilege of three years ago creating a course CHI4U, the history of Canadians of African descent. And like when I think about my experiences growing up in high school, even in in post-secondary, culturally relevant and responsive pedagogy. It didn’t exist. It didn’t exist really in rural Caledonia, even growing up next to the Six Nations of the Grand River.

Benjamin Smith
The representation there was not where it needed to be, and especially the representation for members of the African diaspora wasn’t there. And then, you know, it took, I think, eight, nine years of me as a teacher to eventually be able to create a course that spoke to those experiences. And the way that that course is designed, it’s meant to inspire all students who take that course to recognize that Black history is Canadian history first and foremost, and that we all collectively benefit from the efforts of members

Benjamin Smith
of the African diaspora in Canada. And as such, we all have a collective responsibility to be giving back regardless of our identity. The kind of grounding philosophy of that course, and it’s something that you and I have talked about, something that we shared with Unity Council and shared in your amazing keynote presentation

Benjamin Smith
with our entire school, is the South African philosophy of Ubuntu, I am because we are. And that philosophy came to life to bring together post-apartheid South Africa. Thought leaders like Desmond Tutu, like Nelson Mandela, dove into that ancestral knowledge

Benjamin Smith
of several South African nations, recognizing, hey, we have a cultural mosaic here in South Africa. We are not going to be able to rebuild this community by focusing on any individual identity or ancestral group, we need to create the conditions for communities to work together. So that Ubuntu philosophy, it’s core to what we do in that CHI course, it’s core to what

Benjamin Smith
we do in our Unity Council and throughout so much of our school. And then it’s just creating opportunities for students to see like, hey, these are ways that I’ve benefited from Black Canadian history, and as such, I need to pay it forward in other ways. Then one other thing I would speak to within that course, every summative that students do,

Benjamin Smith
so we’re addressing the curriculum, we’re exploring Canadian history from like pre-confederation up to the present era, but every summative in that course gives students the opportunity to create a product that is directly related to their post-secondary pathway. And in that way, we are able to draw students not only who are members of the African diaspora,

Benjamin Smith
not only who have an interest in majoring in history, in English, in the humanities. I’ve got computer science students. Chincoozee Secondary School, we have a science and technology regional program. We have an arts and culture, specialist high skills program,

Benjamin Smith
a manufacturing, a health and wellness. We’re gonna be launching an aviation program pretty soon. So I wanted to create a course where all of those students could find ways to learn about the history of Canadians of African descent, but then also think about it and begin to experiment with,

Benjamin Smith
okay, I have this knowledge, now how can I create products that are going to serve those communities and other equity-seeking communities once I enter my profession? So like you can see right now on my camera,

Benjamin Smith
like in my office right now, I’m staring at a living edge table. It is like, if you think, if anybody wants to Google a living edge table, it’s created with hardwood and resin. You can see on the screen right now,

Benjamin Smith
all of those figurines are hand painted. This is a student who was torn. They’re like, well, I might want to go into policing. I also might want to go into carpentry. So what can I create for my products? Well, it’s like, OK, well, let’s research

Benjamin Smith
a black Canadian who served in the military. So there’s that sort of policing side of things. And then they had the brilliant idea of bringing that to life through the carpentry side and building that table. And then when it comes back to that transforming educational experiences, the student came to me, they’re like, Mr. Smith, this table is going to cost a lot of money.

Benjamin Smith
I cannot make this happen on my family’s budget. So that’s where developing the ability to apply for grants, you know, just not taking no for an answer, asking partners in the school, asking community partners, doing some of the research, finding ways to make this happen for the students so then they were able to bring it to life. So there’s that example. There’s another student who is now at a full-ride scholarship. I forget where they were offered,

Benjamin Smith
like five full ride scholarships, I can’t even lie. But a computer engineering student, they’ve been featured on CBC, they’ve done some incredible things. And at first they’re thinking, okay, I’m taking this history course,

Benjamin Smith
how’s that gonna help me on my pathway? Well, one of their, I’ll give a couple of their summatives. One of their summatives was they looked at the safe houses, every documented safe house for the Underground Railroad. They then modified a Google Maps app and created an extension where when you hovered over any of those safe houses, it then tied into their research so they had a description, some interesting

(Speaker 3)
facts of how that safe house was used. houses, it then tied into their research so they had a description, some interesting facts

Benjamin Smith
of how that safe house was used. So just like endless possibilities there. I could go on and on, but I don’t want to belabor that example too much. So yeah, that’s one that comes to mind. And then I think Unity Council, do I have time to talk about Unity Council?

Sam Demma
Yeah, please.

Benjamin Smith
Okay, amazing. So with Unity Council, we had the privilege of working with that group together and we continue to come back to some of the projects that you talked about. So when Sam visited us, he challenged our Unity Council to develop a set of small consistent actions. He visited our group early in the school year so that they can really set the framework to an entire year-long project to really take root. And that council is a collection of all of the student groups in our school. So we have

Benjamin Smith
affinity-based groups coming together, identity-affirming groups coming together, but then we also have some of your standard groups. We have our athletics council, we have our student council, we have our Robotics Team, we have our, I mean, you name it. All of those groups come together. They get to share some of their learning. We start a lot of those meetings. Recently what we’ve been doing, we’ve been asking each Affinity Space group to begin with an identity-affirming land

Benjamin Smith
acknowledgement. So with it being February again, we had some of our BSA executive write sort of a land acknowledgement that honored their African ancestry as well. Then we’re gonna be working with some First Nations community partners to have some of our other student groups

Benjamin Smith
develop that capacity too. So with that Unity Council, the students become experts. The students can share some of their best practices. You saw it firsthand. We had one group saying like, hey, like we’ve run this program.

Benjamin Smith
Why don’t you try this idea? You bring in community partners like the Sam Demma who could say like, hey, like when I was in high school, I did this really cool thing too. I was able to mobilize thousands of people around this effort.

Benjamin Smith
Have you thought about these different ideas? And just sort of in that way, we’ve been able to create a space where some of the excellence of these student groups, it’s not siloed, there’s more organic and consistent collaboration. And yeah, we’re really excited for some of what we have planned for the rest of the school year and a lot of it

Sam Demma
thanks to some of your work. So appreciate that. You do such a great job of ensuring the students are at the center of the work and the students are the voice and the students are taking initiative for the projects that are leading. And I appreciated how there was very few teachers or adults in the room.

Sam Demma
It was like, no, this is for the students. The students are gonna discuss and the students are gonna plan and the students are going to figure it out. Aside from providing the pizza and some direction, it’s really cool to watch the students collaborate with one another on such a deep level. How do you get a young person excited about their education?

Sam Demma
How do you get them excited about making a difference and making a change? Everyone was so passionate in that room to speak up and share their ideas.

Benjamin Smith
Yeah, yeah, another great question. And I guess two thoughts come to mind. The first one that comes to mind is we can’t take care of other people if we’re not taking care of ourselves. And that is something that, you know, I learned. I’m continuing to learn, but I learned through trial and error and just constantly trying to find that work-life balance. I’ve got a young family at home, incredibly supportive. I’ve got extended family who, you know, they’re reaching an age where they need that support, where they need that

Benjamin Smith
love. So it’s a constant balancing act there. But when you’re able to get those things in balance, like one example for me is I start most of my days with a I’m a distance runner. So I’ll start most of my days by by by giving to myself. It means cutting out some of the non-essentials. I’m not watching a lot of Raptors anymore as much as I love basketball.

Benjamin Smith
But I start my day by pouring into myself, and then that gives me the capacity then to continue pouring into others. And then the next component is really trying to lead by example. And if we’re trying to excite and empower students

Benjamin Smith
to believe that these transformative actions can occur, we need to develop the reps, we need to develop the examples to show them at least in some way, hey, we’ve done it ourselves. And sometimes it means that we need to take some risks. It means that we have to push some boundaries. And that’s part of where I think your work with our Unity Council was so impactful because not only did you come in with the philosophies, the strategies, the resources to help students get organized, but you had the lived

Benjamin Smith
experience in multiple ways to be able to share, hey, these are some critical challenges I’ve encountered, these are some personal hardships I’ve encountered, being willing to be vulnerable with students when it comes to those hardships, and then like actually having the ability to say like, hey, I created, I was able to create this incredible course for example, I was able to work

Benjamin Smith
with these community partners. When I had this idea, I recognized I didn’t have the resources yet. So these are the ways that I work to get those resources. Yeah, and it’s tough. It’s one of the most,

Benjamin Smith
like those are probably the two most difficult asks. One, creating that work-life balance, and two, being able to lead by example. But when we’re able to develop some of the reps to make that happen, it becomes a lot easier to empower and to excite students about really transforming their conditions.

Sam Demma
You’re doing it. You’re leading by example from what I’ve witnessed and experienced in our interactions. I know the students are so excited and passionate when we were in the space with them all together. And I think a large part of that is the container that’s been created by you and the team at the school and the students themselves. So I’m grateful for the work you’re doing.

Sam Demma
I’m excited to watch the work continue to unfold and follow the journey. It’s been a pleasure learning a little bit more about your own upbringing and your history, your ancestry, and some of the things that you believe about education. So thank you for investing the time to chat. Safe drive, home, happy shoveling, and keep up the great work, Ben. It’s been a pleasure. Awesome. Cheers, Sam.Benjamin Smith
Thank you so much. Likewise, looking forward to hopefully many more years of collaborating, and thank you for all the work that you do, inspiring younger generations, inspiring aging generations like me. inspiring aging generations like me. It’s a real pleasure.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Benjamin Smith

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 20, 2025 by Cross-Cultural Education Education Teachers 0

Tony Bisceglia — Principal of James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School

Tony Bisceglia — Principal of James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School
About Tony Bisceglia

Tony Bisceglia combines his roles as an Urban High Priority Educator and coach with entrepreneurship, while being a father of four. His dedication to education in high-priority urban settings, alongside his entrepreneurial spirit, shapes his multi-faceted approach to making an impact – and while he didn’t invent Pickleball, he’s certainly enthusiastic about it.

Connect with Tony Bisceglia: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Tony Bisceglia, Principal at JCM Cardinal McGuigan, one of the best schools. They are a high performance athletic school, the only one in the Toronto Catholic District School Board, which we’ll talk about during the interview today.

Sam Demma
Tony combines his roles as an urban high priority educator and coach with his entrepreneurial spirit while also being a father of four, his dedication to providing education and high priority urban settings alongside with that entrepreneurial spirit shapes his multifaceted approach to making an impact. And I hear that he also loves pickleball. So we’ll figure that out.

Tony Bisceglia
Tony, thank you so much for being on the show today. Sam, thanks for having me. That’s a great introduction. I appreciate it. You know what? Always great speaking with you. Remember when you were here last year motivating our student population, they loved you. You’re a massive hit, motivator, mentor, role model. So love talking to you whenever I can.

Sam Demma
Please take a moment, introduce yourself and let the educator listening, let them know a little bit about who you are and why you got into education.

Tony Bisceglia
Yeah, so I think you hit the nail on the head in the intro. I’m a multifaceted individual. I definitely consider myself an educator, but it’s not my only role. Being a father for me is for sure the most important role that I hold or the most important title that I have.

Tony Bisceglia
And then beyond that, being a teacher, principal, educator, coach, sports enthusiast, entrepreneur, it all sort of meshes in together. So it’s a fabric and you know any good fabric when it’s woven neatly and tightly together usually produces something really good. And I think you know over the years over my 30 years of being an educator next year will be my 30th year. I can’t believe the time flies that fast, but it’ll be 30 years. I’ve experienced a lot and there’s been a lot of changes in the world, obviously. I think, you know, a lot of markers that for me and my life in the world, you know, COVID being one of them, and you know, the world definitely changed post and pre-COVID or different times. So, yeah, I think I’m a multifaceted individual and my main goal in life is probably to leave an impact. And as I get older, I wanna make sure there’s a legacy.

Tony Bisceglia
I wanna make sure that I leave a mark and I wanna make sure that I leave the world a better place than when I got here. And that’s the goal each and every day.

Sam Demma
You know, it takes a lot of effort and intention and energy to do one thing well, and you’re doing multiple things well. Where does that passion come from? Where does that drive come from? Tell me more about your a little bit about your upbringing.

Tony Bisceglia
Yeah, so you know what people people ask me that all the time. They’re like, how do you do it? And you know what, I am a high energy individual. I can’t sit still. I’m not the type of person to, you know, a lot of people say, hey, what’d you do this weekend? It was snowing outside and people are sitting on the couch and that’s not me. I just, I can’t sit still. or something that I grew up with. I think I had role models who were high achievers. My older brother, who’s six years older than me, was definitely a high achiever and a busybody. My dad, who was an entrepreneur, was definitely a high achiever and a busybody. He would never let us rest on weekends. We always had to be doing some kind of work, whether we went to work with him or work around the house.

Tony Bisceglia
But there always had to be, um, you know, something getting done, right. So we couldn’t be relaxing. I don’t know if it’s an immigrant mindset because obviously my dad immigrated with my mom from Italy and they had that, you know, we’ve got to make it in this new country mindset and that gets passed down. Um, so I definitely feel that I have that immigrant mindset that you want to achieve, that you want to do better.

Tony Bisceglia
You want to make your parents proud. You want them to know that, you know, all the effort that they made for us, their children, was worth it in the end. So I think that’s where it comes from. I think it comes from having really good role models in my family. And then my grandfather, who was a military, you know, almost a career military guy, he spent seven years in Africa during the Second World War. He traveled, he was really, he was well-read. He met, you know, icons of history and, you know, would retell these stories of meeting, you know, world leaders, you know, good and bad, you know, Benito Mussolini, who was the fascist leader of Italy, meeting him, meeting some British generals in Somalia, meeting Libyan generals, just pretty amazing stories. It’s a history book.

Tony Bisceglia
I’d hear those stories all the time, so they were pretty inspiring. That’s where I think I get my drive from.

Sam Demma
At what age did you venture into entrepreneurial pursuits?

Tony Bisceglia
So I think it was, you know, pretty much all my life from whenever I can remember, I actually remember selling a, this is before your time, but you probably know who he is, Hulk Hogan, who was a big wrestling guy. I would sell t-shirts. So I would go to a local mall. I lived at, at a Jane and Wilson I go to Sheridan mall and I’d get t-shirts printed of Hulk Hogan and they say like Hulkamania and all this type of stuff and I’d buy cheap t-shirts at a place called by way get the shirts printed with the Hulkamania and Hulk Hogan logo and I’d go to school and sell them in the schoolyard. So and I was pretty sure I was in grade five, grade four or five doing that. And I don’t know where that idea came from, but I specifically remember doing that. And I think that was the start of my entrepreneurial journey.

Tony Bisceglia
And I’ve had a million businesses since landscaping, restaurants, sports camps, day trading, you name it. I think I’ve done it. Good and bad because I had a lot of failures, but those early failures was really my education in entrepreneurship.

Tony Bisceglia
It was a school of hard knocks. Nothing like losing money to teach you a lesson. And I lost my money in the early days and I’m thankful for that. And I learned, I learned a lot of valuable lessons by losing that money. And that was my education in entrepreneurship. Then I got some formal education too.

Tony Bisceglia
I got a master’s degree in leadership and supervision. And I’ve got other courses, business courses from universities, Queens, Western. But I would say that the real experience that I gained is in operating businesses operating businesses and just, you know, hitting, hit the ground running, uh, good or bad, losing money. And that’s where I learned to be a good entrepreneur.

Sam Demma
It’s one of our backs against the wall where we learn the most. I think, you know, you succeed, you, you continue forward without reflection. You have a challenge or a failure. You, you pause and ponder. And sometimes those situations are even more helpful than a win because you change nothing. And it sounds like you’ve had a fair share. And within business, you’re operating with lots of other people. You’re building relationships. And that really ties into your work as an administrator at a school. You’re managing a team of staff. You’re interacting with students all day.

Sam Demma
When it comes to managing others, humans are so complex. We have our own, we all have our own diverse set of needs and how we like to be communicated to. What are some of your philosophies or ideas around leadership that help you work with and manage other people effectively? What do you keep at the front of your mind when you’re dealing with people? Well, I’m sort of the opposite.

Tony Bisceglia
I buck the trend on what a leader should be, because the modern leader is like a collegial leader who wants everyone’s input. And I got to be honest with you, if you want to run a really good organization or a large organization or a business, a school, anything, the leader has to have a clear vision and it has to be a determined vision and that means you’ve got to go with what you believe in and you’re not always going to be able to take other people’s input. You’re not always going to be able to sit down at a table and say, hey let me hear everybody out. If you want things to work and you want to get things done in a timely fashion, you have to almost be a militant type leader and I’m not saying you’ve got to be a bad person and treat people badly because I don’t believe in that.

Tony Bisceglia
I believe you treat everyone fairly, but if a person is, is not going to pull up their socks and do what you need them to do, those people should not be part of your organization. And it doesn’t matter what kind of organization it is, whether it’s a business, whether it’s a government institution, you need people to be on the same page and who are willing to go down the river with you, right? Willing to fight battles with you and they need to believe in that leader and the leader leads the charge from the front.

Tony Bisceglia
And if you don’t have a leader who’s willing to put everything on the line and say, hey, here’s the vision, I’m going to lead us into this battle and we’re going to win this battle. If you don’t have a person like that leading the organization, this is where you see a lot of failure, especially mature type businesses or organizations. So for me, it’s it’s you know, you’re either getting on board or you’re getting off the ship. It’s one of the two. And like I said, I think, you know, in today’s world, there’s a lot of niceties and we’re trying to sort of appease everyone. We’re trying to make everyone happy and it just doesn’t work, unfortunately, if you want to be successful. Now, if you want to be mediocre, that’s a different story. And we see a lot of mediocre schools, a lot of mediocre businesses, a lot of mediocre individuals, because those are people who are willing to settle and not really drive their dreams. You know, like, look at you, what you’ve done. It’s incredible.

Tony Bisceglia
Your story, right, from getting injured as a soccer player and now being, you know, this internationally recognized speaker all over the world, traveling to Africa. It’s pretty incredible for a young person like you, but you have to believe in yourself to do that. I’m sure you had a lot of naysayers, but if you weren’t steadfast and headstrong, that you were going to achieve what you’ve achieved and you were confident in your own abilities, you never would have been where you are today on this platform. Kudos to you for doing that because I honestly do not see a lot of young people being the type of risk takers that you are and what you’ve done. So I admire everything you’ve done. So keep it up.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it. Big time. Talking about niceties. One of my favorite lecturers and speakers is a gentleman named Jim Rohn. And he said, everyone talks about affirmations, but they only work if you affirm the truth. He said, if you’re, if you’re broke, you should wake up every single day, look in the mirror and say, I’m broke. And, you know, and, and if you, if you face reality, there’s an opportunity for you to change. And, and he would always say, you know, show me your list of reasons why things aren’t working out. And most of the time people don’t include themselves on that list. And that’s one of the major issues, you know, the things in the world don’t change unless we change. And it’s, it’s a hard pill to swallow, but if we want to make a shift in some area of our life, it has to come back to ourselves and our choices and our actions. Um, I have a little team now, four or five people. And I found that if someone’s not, you know, tightly tied into the vision that I’ve shared with them, it’s really hard to motivate them and get them excited to work, you know, and they gotta go and we’ll find another person. Speaking of mediocre versus high performing, your school is one of the high performance athletic schools, one of the only, or the only only in the Toronto Catholic District School Board.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about what that means and how it’s had an impact on the school population, enrollment, and even students’ excitement.

Tony Bisceglia
So it’s been an incredible adventure. It’s something that I wanted to do for a really long time, having, you know, four kids involved in pretty high level sports. I’ve always tried to find a space for them that was a high performance academic athletic institution. So I would look at examples around the world that have succeeded like IMG Academy in Florida, you know, Bill Crothers up in York region, who have taken student athletes and really nurtured them to be the very best they can be to make sure that they excel in whatever it is that they’re doing, whether it’s sports or academics, and that we graduate individuals who are more than just competent. They’re high achievers in their sports and in their academics, and they on to get you know D1 scholarships, D2 scholarships, maybe play professional right out of high school but basically we nurture those high achievers and I think you know there’s a place for everybody in the world not everyone needs to be a high performance athlete and we have programs for those kids and I think everyone has different interests but for me having a serious interest in sports, it appealed to me to create that kind of environment because I didn’t see it in Canada. I didn’t see many of them in Canada anyways. I would say Bill Crothers in York region was really the model for most of the rest of us high performance schools in the GTA. So kudos to them for having that vision and getting that off the GTA. So kudos to them for having that vision and getting that off the ground. But in Toronto Catholic, we are the first high performance athletic high school, and we focus on basketball, soccer, volleyball, and every year we’re expanding into other areas of sport. But our main goal is the student athletes, student being the primary focus, athlete being secondary. But knowing that high performance athletes may train up to 20 hours a week, we’ve got to make some accommodations, we’ve got to adapt some things for those kids.

Tony Bisceglia
We’ve got to support them to be the best student athletes that they can be. Because you can’t be an Olympian, you can’t be a professional athlete, you can’t go to D1 without support, with some support from your high school and from your high school teachers.

Tony Bisceglia
And teachers got to buy into that. And that’s the culture we’re trying to build here. We’re trying to really focus in on the kids from this community, particularly the Jane and Finch community. We’re taking kids who may have raw athletic ability and we’re trying to refine those skills and make them the best student athletes that they can be. And, you know, student being very important, they’ve got to maintain a 70% average. And the program has been a real hit. It’s been a success. Our enrollment has gone up 35% since we introduced this program. So the school is, is exploding.

Tony Bisceglia
It’s, it’s, you know, bursting at the seams. Because we place a real emphasis on each individual student and what their individual needs are. And the communities recognize that. And it’s been successful because we have a caring, nurturing culture in this school.

Tony Bisceglia
And that’s what separates us from other schools. Not to say that other schools don’t care about their kids, but we take it a step above. We’re taking it to the next level. And we’re trying to make contacts for these kids in universities, in post-secondary, with pro teams like TFC.

Tony Bisceglia
We have a student who’s on the under-17 national team soccer, Elijah Roche, and he’s a fantastic defender, one of Canada’s top defenders, and I guarantee you’ll see him playing internationally soon with a big club. So we have students like that real high achievers, and we support and nurture them to be the best they can be. I kind of wish I was able to attend the school during the program when I was a high school student. Right? It sounds like a place because you are a high performance athlete. But I think in those days, you know, we weren’t focusing on nurturing and supporting student athletes the way that we are today. You know, and I think, you know, that kids today have a real advantage if they’re in a program like ours. If their real dream is to play D1 football, then this is the place for them because we’re going to support them in that dream. We have an academic coordinator that meets with them every single week to focus in on their academics, to make sure that they’re doing well. And if there’s an issue, that academic coordinator is on the phone with a parent, a coach saying, hey, we’ve got to do something here. There’s an issue. So, you know, we tackle issues before they become bigger issues. So, to your point, if you would have had a program like this, you’re successful already, but who knows what could have been. And then you had an injury, and we support kids through that too, because that’s a reality of playing sports, right? That injury comes with another impact, the psychological impact, and we support them with social workers and CYWs, child and youth workers, to get them through those tough times. So yeah, really good program.

Sam Demma
It sounds like it. And I’m glad to hear it’s having a very positive impact on the community. The focus on the student athlete and the academics not slipping or sliding is so important as well. My, my parents really drilled that into my mind when I was a young kid, Sam, you got to make sure that you, whatever your hands touch, you do the best with it that you possibly can. If that means doing your homework, do the homework the best way you can. You touch the soccer cleats on the field, play the sport the best you can. And I’ve kind of carried that mentality through my life.

Sam Demma
And it’s helped me because yes, certain things are more important than others, but everything matters and the way we do one thing is going to seep into all the other things that we do. So not allowing those other aspects of life to slip is really helpful, you know, especially for young people that are focused on sports 24 seven. I’m curious when you think about building relationships with students, you know, a lot of educators want to build solid relationships with their students and lot of educators wanna build solid relationships with their students and as they do, the student is more engaged in class and paying more attention. How do you think you build a connection with a young person?

Tony Bisceglia
So I think it’s gotta be authentic. And I think for me, the way I built connections when I was in high school was by playing sports. So being on the soccer team, being on the football team. Just for me, the after school activities were as important, if not more important. I would say for me, they were more important than being in class.

Tony Bisceglia
Classes is important, but traditionally speaking, you know, most successful people in the world, and there’s data to support this research, weren’t A plus students. They weren’t the kids who had a 95% average. They were like C, C plus students, B students maybe.

Tony Bisceglia
But they were kids who were well-rounded, who played sports, who had other activities in their life. So I think teachers really need to go back to and focus on, because this is what’s lacking in education today. I think when really need to go back to and focus on, because this is what’s lacking in education today. I think when I was in school, I had teachers who taught because they actually loved teaching or coaching. My teachers were coaches, they were ex-CFL guys. And they wanted us to excel in sports, but they hammered us in the classroom. They made sure we were on top of everything. But they said, hey, you’re gonna be a practice today practices at four Don’t be late or you’re gonna be running for an hour and we respected that today that’s lacking and for whatever reason and I don’t know if it’s you know, again, I don’t want to blame social media for stuff You know, he was to Gary Vanner Chuck. He says, it’s not social media that’s the problem, right? And I don’t think it is. I just think, I think the world has changed, but coaches have changed too. Coaches can’t be as hard as they were on athletes because mom and dad’s gonna come to their rescue.

Tony Bisceglia
Like every little thing a coach does is questioned now. And for me, and I’m a parent of a bunch of athletes, of my kids, when my kids are playing, I don’t get involved. The coach can say whatever they want. Whatever the coach does, obviously, I’m trusting that coach to be a good leader, to be a good mentor, to be a good coach, to speak with them with authority and maybe firmness even.

Tony Bisceglia
But I’ve got to trust that coach, otherwise I shouldn’t be there. I can’t be second guessing everything the coach does, the lineup, the strategy, the tactic. I can’t be questioning that. Otherwise I shouldn’t be there. But in today’s world, every parent is a former athlete. Everyone says, I played, I played in high school.

Tony Bisceglia
You know, we’ve got coaches who actually played pro, who maybe played in Europe, who played in the MLS, or wherever they played, right? So you’ve got to trust those people. If you’ve enrolled your kids in that program, it must be for a reason. You like the program, you like the club, you like the coaches, and then all of a sudden, you know, you register, you get on the field and you start yelling at coaches, or like right after a match, you know, this is why a lot of people don’t coach anymore, especially in high schools. We don’t have enough teachers coaching because of the grief, right? The, you know, parents might give them or the other kids might give them. So like we got to get back to, and I don’t want to say get back to the basics, but I mean, the, the relationship that a coach and a student has a student athlete is very different than the relationship, a geography teacher in a student has very different. And you can’t build that same relationship in a classroom, especially in a traditional classroom, you know, a Socratic type of classroom where a teacher’s giving you information, spewing out facts, and you’re just absorbing it. There’s nothing stimulating about that. You know, whereas on the field, I feel like, you know, there’s stimulation between the interaction with the coach, the team, especially in team sports.

Sam Demma
I can speak from personal experience. I built some of my closest relationships with coaches or with extracurricular activities where they were there to push and guide and support and provide feedback that I was very excited to receive because I wanted to improve. And unless I was very interested in the subject and really wanted to excel at it, I found a lesser connection to the staff member or teacher that was in the room, and some of the teachers that had the biggest impact on me just really took a interest in me as an individual and, and got to know what my life was like outside of the classroom. And I think that made all the difference for me too.

Tony Bisceglia
I agree, you know, because you feel that, Hey, that teacher wants to know about me, not just as a student, not just the facts that I memorized that teacher wants to know about me, not just as a student, not just the facts that I memorized. That teacher wants to know who I am as a person. What do I, what do I like? What are my interests? What do I want to do in the future?

Tony Bisceglia
And if you know, someone cares about you that way, you’re going to reciprocate. You’re going to give back.

Sam Demma
You’re going to give that effort on the field, this has been a very stimulating conversation. I appreciate your time and your insights and the ideas. It’s lovely to hear about the success of the high performance athletic program at the school. Keep up the amazing work. I look forward to seeing Elijah Roche playing nationally or internationally and the rest of the athletes to see them succeed in school life and their own set of goals. So you’re doing a great job. Keep up the amazing work and we’ll cross paths again soon.

Tony Bisceglia
Thanks. And same to you. Keep inspiring the young people all over the world. Now, all the things you’re doing everywhere, Africa, the U S Canada, just keep it up, man.

Sam Demma
Thank you very much.  

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tony Bisceglia

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 15, 2025 by Educator Principals 0

Kathy Archer — Leadership Development Coach

Kathy Archer — Leadership Development Coach
About Kathy Archer

Kathy Archer knows what it’s like to constantly put out fires, question every decision, and carry the weight of an entire organization. She was once that overwhelmed nonprofit leader, teetering on the edge of burnout. Now, she helps nonprofit leaders stop drowning in work, doubting themselves, and carrying it all alone, so they can lead with confidence, set boundaries, and finally take control of their leadership and life.

Connect with Kathy Archer: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Kathy Archer

Character Driven Leadership For Women

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Kathy Archer. Kathy knows what it’s like to constantly put out fires, question every decision and carry the weight of an entire organization. She was once that overwhelmed nonprofit leader teetering on the edge of burnout. Now she helps nonprofit leaders, educational leaders, stop drowning in work, doubting themselves, and carrying it all alone so they can lead with confidence, set boundaries, and finally take control of their leadership and life. She is the author of Character-Driven Leadership for Women, and she is now a friend of mine. Kathy, thank you so much for coming on the show here today. You’re very welcome.

Kathy Archer
I’m so excited to be here and yeah, talk to you because you have such a brilliant mind and a brilliant way of looking through your mind at the world and I’m excited to talk about things today.

Sam Demma
Well, I appreciate you being here and I would love to just start with the new book. Please tell us a little bit about what inspired you to write it and why you’re excited to get it in the hands of more readers.

Kathy Archer
Yes, character-driven leadership for women is a five-step framework for helping shape your management style with strong values, ethics, and morals. So when I was in leadership, I hit two big leadership lows and I fell out of integrity.

Kathy Archer
And I don’t just say that, like my staff said that twice in performance reviews. Like Kathy lacks integrity. I’m like, what? That’s not me. And so I spent about 25 years in the nonprofit sector, got introduced to coaching the second time I hit my big leadership low and the staff had filed a grievance against me. And I fell in love with coaching and I learned that we need to come back to how we’re leading, the way we’re leading, not just what we think we’re supposed to do in our work, but how we’re doing that in our job.

Kathy Archer
You know, I know you know this, there’s a difference between being and doing, and we do a lot of doing, you know, we tick off the boxes and checklists and go to the meetings, but how are you doing that? And so character driven leadership comes back to the who’s behind the work, and how we lead in a way that’s authentic to us, aligned with our values, our missions, our visions, all of that kind of stuff.

Sam Demma
Kathy is a business-minded individual, which is why she chose the niche of serving women. But let me tell you, it’s not a book only for women. It’s for everyone who wants to build more ethics, morals, and values in their leadership styles. Something we talked about before the podcast began was that we’ve really learned about

Sam Demma
leadership in an inauthentic way and in all the wrong ways. Can you speak about that a little bit and how you want to shift that conversation?

Kathy Archer
Only if you answer me one quick question. Name the top three to five motivational speakers that you listen to, follow. I mean, Jim Rohn, who else?

Sam Demma
You know I love Jim Rohn. Jim Rohn is one of my favorite lecturers and speakers. I have a personal mentor who’s not so known in the world, but he’s one of the people I look up to the most. His name is Chris Cummins. I also listen often to Alan Watts and Tony Robbins and I’ll stop there.

Kathy Archer
Yeah. Yeah. Napoleon Hill, think and grow rich. In the leadership world, we’ve learned to lead from masculine role models. If you look at any of the business schools, the leadership stuff, the motivational stuff, 90% of it is male, white male, and was written 30, 40 years ago, and definitely pre-COVID.

Kathy Archer
And so part of what’s happened is we’ve missed the softer edges of leadership. We’ve missed, and this is both true for men and women, we’ve missed the feminine qualities of leadership. I cannot tell you how many times a woman says to me, and again, I primarily coach women leaders, but I also coach in the corporate sector, and I coach male and females alike. So I experience both. But I just I coach male and females alike. So I experienced both, but I just want to shut my emotions off. I don’t want to bring my emotions into that meeting. I just wanna, right? And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, no. We need to manage our emotions, but our emotions are guides, they’re clues, they’re so valuable to us. And so we need to do that. Or, you know, if you bring compassion in or kindness or fairness or any of those things that somehow you’re soft as a leader. And so we’ve learned to lead in this very rigid, stiff sort of way, right? And we need to come back to but what’s my way? What’s my way of leading? And I am a crier, I’m gonna admit, I’m a very emotional person. And so it was very hard for me to shut my emotions off over the years.

Kathy Archer
I’m compassionate. I love to do things like craft and crochet and take care of plants and nurture things. And when I was in leadership, it became a very do this, go to the meetings. And while I wanted to have this really strong relationship with my staff When I got busy, I felt like I had to push that aside and that’s where the the disconnect and integrity came Family’s important to me, but I was the one traveling when you know, my kid was in a car accident and I didn’t come home You know work-life balance is important, but I’m sitting there on a Sunday doing time sheets. So I had lost my integrity. And now I’m confused about the question we were on, because I went on a whole challenge.

Kathy Archer
Oh, authenticity. So we need to come back to who we are and find our way of leading. And this comes back to, and I’ll pass it back to you, Sam, the self-reflective work, which I know you do all the time, it’s so important that we connect to who we are through that self-reflective work.

Sam Demma
I’ve had some of my greatest breakthroughs after experiences unfolded and I wrote about it. And maybe it’s through my conversations with Kate, who happens to be a close friend and my therapist, who encourages me to write things down. And those reflective journal entries end up providing you with some big breakthroughs, which lead to shifts in the way I live my life and the choices I choose to make. So reflection has been a massive part of my philosophy. And maybe it was borrowed a little bit from Jim Rohn, who always talked about the importance of journaling and how you’re, you know, one of the most valuable things you can hand to somebody else when you leave this planet is your journals. You are someone who has worked in the space for a long period of time. You’ve worked with lots of individuals, many of which have likely experienced burnout.

Sam Demma
You yourself have experienced burnout. What are some of the key turning points in your journey that help you like recognize when you’re reaching that point and to get back out of it?

Kathy Archer
Yeah. The first time I ever hit it really hard was when I was sitting in the doctor’s office, getting prescription for antidepressants. That was a big turning point for me. Right.

Kathy Archer
It was like, Ooh, Kathy, do you want to keep doing this? And I had one of those moments where I was like, do I wanna leave the career? Like it’s hard, right? I was just new to leadership, but I came back because I had that strong passion for the work I do, very committed to it.

Kathy Archer
And what shifted for me then and what has always shifted for me was that’s when I started my degree. So I had a college diploma, but I’m like, no, I don’t know anything about leadership. I knew the work. And this is true for, you know, educators as well. We’re good teachers, but we move into leadership. But do you know, but have you learned leadership? Right? It’s different. It’s not the same as teaching. Certainly very, you know, similar things that you do. But so I went back and I started working on my degree and it took me eight years to get my management degree because I was raising four kids at the time and working full time. But education, learning, growing has always been foundational for me and shifting. And so the same was true when I hit that second really big low. That’s like I say, when I decided to become a coach, but it was not the same kind of, I mean I took courses to do coaching, but I really started to dive into learning and and many of the same mentors that you have learned from and again, this is why I come back to teach women because women don’t have enough role models out there. We’re learning from men and and there’s nothing wrong with that, but we’re just wired differently. And so, I would dive in and I would dissect the term integrity. Like what does integrity actually mean, right?

Kathy Archer
What’s moral courage? Or when you’re really demonstrating compassion, what does that mean? And I started to really learn more about that and started to create goals. Like I wanted to really learn more about that and started to create goals. Like I wanted to do this more. You know, I’ve always been goal-driven, but when you start to really identify specific goals, it starts to shift what you’re doing, I think.

Sam Demma
What about setting goals and having something you’re aiming at has been helpful in getting out of that state of burnout when you’ve gotten close to it.

Kathy Archer
Yeah, yeah. We’re teleological beings, so we want a target, right? If we don’t have a target, we spend our time head down. I always talk about whacking the moles, right? Meeting, email, right? That’s all we’re doing. That’s our only target is just hitting those things that are like this close in front of us. So we need to create goals. So for me, yeah, it was creating goals, not just about what I wanted to accomplish, but who I wanted to be. And those kinds of goals really is what started to drive the change for me is anybody can run a meeting, but how do you run a meeting, right? Anybody can give somebody some advice or critique their performance, but how are you doing that? You know, you think about a good coach that you’ve had over the years, there’s a way of being, not just doing there. And that’s what those kind of goals, and when we look at, you know, our performance appraisal kind of goals, it’s like, yeah, I want to, you know, finish this and complete that and do that. It’s different than that. It’s that, but it’s more than that. And creating goals like that really helps. So for me, I wanted to, at one point, I really wanted to learn how to be better at forgiving.

Kathy Archer
Forgiveness for me is not easy, right? And there’s things that happen in our lives with people that kind of hurt us. And you know, when I started going, oh, forgiveness isn’t about them, it’s about me. Oh, okay. Okay. That changes it, right? You know, back to journaling, then I can start to go, okay, am I better able to understand forgiveness? You know, thinking cognitively, am I better able to understand it? Okay, I’ve met that target, right? I may be not better at doing it yet, but I’m better at understanding it. So there’s that target. Then I can journal about ways that I’m doing it or practicing it. And so, yeah, you start to grow personally as well as professionally.

Sam Demma
It sounds like it would be a wise decision for us to create our own professional and personal growth plan? Is that something that you have?

Kathy Archer
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So in the book, I talk about your character plan, right? So create your character plan, but I’m often talking, I have a membership for leaders and I’m often talking about creating your own personal and professional learning curriculum.

Kathy Archer
So, you know, what are you learning? When are you learning it? Cause if it’s not on your calendar, there’s a good chance you’re not going to learn it. How are you learning it? And then what’s your measure? And when we’re talking about maybe being a more organized leader, okay, so what does organized mean, right? And so it might simply be jotting down the number of times you actually plan staff meeting before staff meeting. Because I can’t tell you how many times I’d run into a meeting like frazzled and last minute and bringing agendas with me while nobody else had a chance to prepare. I’m just dumping stuff on them or it’s a monologue and I’m just, that’s not what we need from our staff meetings, we need some engagement. So are you planning those meetings? Maybe you’re looking at setting better boundaries. Okay, so how often are you leaving the school at five o’clock, right? Like that’s a measurement, right? So having those measurements is incredibly important part of it.

Sam Demma
I’ve personally experienced it to be very difficult to create boundaries when you love the work so much and you just want to show up. And I’m assuming it’ll be particularly difficult in the nonprofit space as well, where people are very heart-centered or any person who’s in a leadership position is likely there because they love what they do and they want to serve and they want to support.

Sam Demma
What practical strategies have you found very effective in helping people get comfortable creating those boundaries?

Kathy Archer
So you’re right, it is hard. And I love the work I do and it’s easy for me to get sucked in, evening and weekends. I don’t typically, because I create other things that are interesting and exciting. So I know we’re both Toastmasters. So, you know, if I have a Toastmasters meeting that night, I’m definitely going to end work because I want to do that. Health and wellness is incredibly important to me. I need to get my walk in every day and do some of those other things. But you know, I think about family when the sort of the year of COVID, you know, I knew that it’s like, how do we get together? And I have five granddaughters and it was just tough. And so the goal I created that year was to create 12 experiences with our family. That was it, right? So sledding was one, right? Like we all went sledding for the day. We went to the pool another day. You know, it didn’t have to be anything big, but I had to be intentional. And again, back to that teleological, if your focus is the passion at work, you’re gonna go there, but if you create a target over here too, there’s gonna be a pull because we’re just drawn to hitting targets. There’s gonna be a pull to go, okay, I also have to do that. So yeah, you’re less likely to do work on a Saturday afternoon to do that. The other thing I will say is we often think about taking care of ourselves as an afterthought or something that happens after our work day. And we have to learn, and there’s a big component in the book around wellness, and I talk about weaving in wellness throughout your workday. You are not going to be patient, you’re not going to be focused, you’re not going to be able to manage your emotions or say what you need to say when you’re hangry, when you haven’t left your desk, right? This is stuff you can’t lead from an empty tank. Throughout your workday you have to weave in wellness and so again if I’m so passionate about what I do, then I also should be so passionate about my wellness because it will raise this level here.

Sam Demma
I recently added a few new practices to my day-to-day life and recognized that I didn’t want to do some of them during the workday because I wanted to save that time for meetings with people and conversations and meetings with my team. And it got to a point where I recognized, hey, Sam, you kind of have to, you kind of have to choose. You know, there’s, there’s only so many hours available in the day.

Sam Demma
And so I started going to bed a little earlier so I could do some work in the morning and the quiet hours of the morning. But I’m close to capacity and I’m curious to know, how do you decide what you prioritize each day or each week? Because there are a set number of hours we have.

Kathy Archer
Yeah, yeah. But the most important things early in the day. I love that you say that. I’m a 5 a.m. riser, 9 p.m. bedtime. Like you bookend it, right? But also, the other part, and again, I talk about this in the book, is a weekly review as well as a daily review. So each week I look at what’s on my calendar, what appointments do I have, and I talk about which ones can you ditch, defer, or delegate, right? Like, can somebody else take that task on?

Kathy Archer
Can you get rid of it? Like, you know what? I mean, there are things that we do just because we’ve always done them. Do we still need to do them, right? Or defer, okay, that’s important, but I just don’t have the energy or bandwidth this week. I’ll move it out. And we sort of assume what’s in our calendar, we have to do. Do I have to go to that meeting? Do I have to go to the full meeting? Right? Can I just show up and hand my stuff over or show up at the end? And that’s not always fair or the right thing to do, which goes back to who am I, right? How am I having those conversations? But I do, I think we have to look at, you know, I only have X amount of energy in a day and time in a day, and they’re different things, right? I only have so many hours in a day, but you’re running out of energy. And if you’re doing some of those things with, you know, mediocre energy, you’re just not doing them well. And so again, that comes back to who’s doing this job, who’s doing this work? If it’s, if I’m, can I say half-assing it? If I’m half-assing it, I’m not being my best self. And if I have to look in the mirror every day, and again, this is why the journaling is so important and the self-reflecting is, am I being my best self today? And if I’m being my best self today, does this schedule match. And it might be, and this is the other thing I talk about, is micro moments. Like one or two minutes. What can you do in one or two minutes? Like I, maybe more than two minutes, but I used to walk around the block, like a five minute walk. Like that was enough to recharge me. Stretch, like get up and stretch your arms. Like, you know, do a squat and, you know and do something. I would do squats at the photocopier. I don’t even know if they still have photocopiers. Today I would do squats at the photocopier.

Kathy Archer
Waiting for things. But yeah, like micro moments of wellness, a drink of water, something to eat, connection with nature, a little prayer, meditation of one minute. Like something you can weave into your workday is gonna bring that energy back up.

Sam Demma
Those micro moments seem small, but have a massive impact. I talk about it all the time with small consistent actions. One of the little things I love to do before I start the workday is even if I’m still inside, position myself near a window where the sun can hit my face. If it’s freezing, just seeing the sun, it has an impact on how I feel. I work out every morning. I love reading and journaling and meditating. And those four habits have a really big impact on how I feel. Are there any other micro moments or habits that have been very influential in your personal development?

Kathy Archer
Microelements of learning. We often think I need an hour to sit down and read a book. Three minutes. Like I am, I can read like three paragraphs and go, hmm, and think about it and write a note about it. And then it’s going to simmer in the back of my mind. A micro moments of learning, hugely, hugely important. Again, sometimes you need those deeper dives, but you can take in just a little piece, a podcast.

Kathy Archer
You know, I’m listening to a podcast where I’m folding laundry. Like it doesn’t take a ton. But those micro moments of learning are going to stimulate creativity in you, you you, awaken that, oh, I could try that over here or that over here or different things. So, I mean, your podcast is a great example. I was listening to some of the past episodes

Kathy Archer
and I can imagine a teacher or a leader in a school going, oh, that’s a good idea, I like that. And it’s like a two minute conversation that they listen to and it’s like, bingo, there’s an idea.

Sam Demma
Always digging for the insights.

Kathy Archer
Always, always, always, always, yeah, yeah.

Sam Demma
This has been such a lovely conversation. I wanna say thank you for taking the time to share some of your insights, talk a little bit about your book, discuss the difference in leadership styles the world needs right now, especially with a little more feminine energy. I would love for you to share where people can connect with you and purchase your book because I know they’re gonna wanna read it.

Kathy Archer
Yeah, yeah. So I’m at kathiearcher.com is my website, Kathy D as in Diane Archer on all of the socials. Instagram is my favorite place to hang out. You can grab the book on Amazon or wherever you buy books. It’s available March 3rd. The audio version is out there too, so listen in. And I have a, this is my second book. My first book is Mastering Confidence, so it’s also on on all of the the platforms as well. So yeah, please connect with me. I love to work with, you know, leaders who are interested in growing themselves, growth minded, engaged leaders who want to leaders who are interested in growing themselves, growth minded, engaged leaders who want to not just do better, but be better. 

Sam Demma
Kathy, this is lovely. Thank you so much.  

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Kathy Archer

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 13, 2025 by Coach Speaker 0

Ryan Wamser — Director of School Improvement for ROE #40 and Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub

Ryan Wamser — Director of School Improvement for ROE #40

About Ryan Wamser

Ryan Wamser has taught middle school Physical Education, high school drivers education and health, been a high school Assistant Principal, an elementary principal, assistant Regional Superintendent, and a district Superintendent.
He is currently the Director of School Improvement for ROE #40 as well as the Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub. Ryan is passionate about helping to support teachers and administrators in any way possible. When not working, Ryan loves spending time with his wife Michelle and their four kids.

Connect with Ryan Wamser: Email | Instagram | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

ROE #40
Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub
Ryan Wamser

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Ryan Wamser. Drawing on experience from teaching to superintendency, Ryan now serves as both the Director of School Improvement for ROE 40 and the Director of the Illinois Area 5 SEL Hub. His diverse career spans middle school, physical education, high school health and driver’s education, building leadership as a principal and district leadership as a superintendent.

Sam Demma
A passionate advocate for supporting educators at all levels, Ryan balances his commitment to educational excellence with family life alongside his wife, Michelle, and their four children. Ryan, thank you so much for taking the time today to be here on the podcast.

Ryan Wamser
Thanks, Sam. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.

Sam Demma
Tell us a little bit about what got you involved in education and why you’re passionate about it.

Ryan Wamser
Well, it’s one of those things that as a kid, I never saw myself doing anything else. My dad was a teacher, taught for 22 years, was a middle school science and math teacher, my older sister’s a teacher, my mom was an administrative assistant working for a regional office of education. So I grew up, you know, learning how to shoot a basketball and learn how to walk through the halls of a middle school. Got to see the impact that educators had on kids

Ryan Wamser
and on colleagues and community. When I was 12, my dad passed away, actually in the middle of coaching. He was a, he coached year round for the school that he taught at and actually passed away in the middle of coaching a volleyball game. So got to, you know, obviously that was a traumatic situation for a 12 year old, but got to see the impact that education had on his students and his coworkers. And I still get to see his impact today because time doesn’t go by where somebody doesn’t come up to me and ask if I’m Jim Wamser’s son and they have a little story to tell me or some sort of thing that happened when they were in school that they credit to my dad for them getting into education. And so it’s just one of those things that, I always say that that was probably the worst time of my life was being a 12 year old kid whose dad collapses in the middle of a volleyball game and passes away.

Ryan Wamser
And then luckily I didn’t go to the school that he taught at, but I was at the neighboring school where, you know, his best friend was the superintendent. His other best friend was my principal, you know, all those people that were there that were friends of his. And I got to experience what, you know, education is about and the community that it brings in. And, you know, I always say it was the worst year of my life in school, but in some respects,
it might’ve been the best year of my life in school because I got to really experience what education can and should be and what teachers mean to kids like me that I wouldn’t be sitting here talking to you today if it weren’t for those teachers when I was 12 years old who wrapped around me and made sure that I was taken care of.

Ryan Wamser
And so it’s just a little bit something that I try to give back every day to make sure that I’m leaving even a little bit of a mark that my dad left on his community and his friends and kids who are now grown adults and give them back as well.

Sam Demma
It sounds like your dad made a really large contribution to every person he crossed paths with. And it made me think a little bit of my grandfather who passed when I was 13. It was the first time I ever attended a funeral, very different from losing a father, but losing a family member was tough. And I’ll never forget the stories people told me. There was one lady that told me that my grandfather, when he had cancer, would still show up to her house and shovel her driveway and bury her hamster in the backyard when she asked him to. All these random little things, right. And I wish I could have captured more of those stories and, and just wrote them down in a journal or something. I’m sure you’ve heard so many over the years that you were completely unaware of that, that you didn’t even know your dad did those things. Are there any that bring you an immense amount of pride and joy that you might want to share one, one or two on the podcast here today?

Ryan Wamser
Yeah, there’s a lot. Just recently, it’s funny, my son is 13 and he’s gonna be in high school next year. And the teacher that he probably will have for biology, not too long ago, it was a few months ago, she stopped me and she said, you know what, I’ve, we’ve talked numerous times, but I never put two and two together that who your dad was. And I said, yeah, she goes, well, the reason why I’m a biology teacher and a science teacher is because of your dad. And it’s just one of those things, like, you know, you have conversations with people and you don’t put two and two together, but it’s just, those are the kind of things that, you know, give me solace in the field that we have and the education that we have that even, you know, this person who was, you know, happened to be his student, you know, when they were in eighth grade, you know, in science class at Bell Valley, you know, junior high, that, you know, that person went on to be a science teacher because he helped instill that love of science in them. And so those are just little, little things that every once in a while catch me off guard because, you know, you never heard that story before, somebody didn’t feel like, or didn’t have the opportunity to share. And so I just, that’s one of those things that I think that in education, especially that we as educators have to make sure that we remember the impact that we have on kids and on our community. And, but we also need to make sure that not forget to share with those educators and those important people in our lives, how much they, they mean to us too, because you know, there’s sometimes we forget to do that. And so, you know, we may not always hear the impact that we have, but we can at least make sure that others hear the impact that they have on us.

Sam Demma
This is your reminder mid podcast to pause the show. Go on your phone, search up that contact that person you haven’t let know how big of a contribution they made in your life to just call them and tell them, um, I’m already thinking of someone I’m going to call after this podcast ends.

Ryan Wamser
It takes two seconds to shoot a text message or, um, you know, I’m not a Facebook guy, so I get, I don’t have those connections, but it takes two seconds to send somebody a direct message, uh, shoot them a text message. even those people that I consider to be closest friends and I go, man, I haven’t talked to that person in months or we haven’t had an extended conversation with.

Ryan Wamser
And it’s just, it’s hit home, especially in the last, lots of things have hit home, especially in the last five years, but it’s been one of those things that to make a conscious effort, to be intentional about those relationships and making sure that we’re reaching out to those people because you know may not have the opportunity to.

Sam Demma
You’re someone who has served nearly every level of education from teacher to superintendent. How have the different roles you’ve served shaped your understanding of what schools and educators truly need to be successful?

Ryan Wamser
Well, when you read off my list of my experience, I still consider myself to be a young guy. I know I’m not, but it makes me just think I can’t hold the job down when you list everything. So, you know, that’s my running joke is I can’t keep a job. But, you know, I think it’s really, it’s changed. My perspective has changed, especially, you know, post pandemic and what we should be doing.

Ryan Wamser
You know, I grew up in a kid’s first household. Like literally my dad was coaching year round and he never, you know, he was at school more than he was at home. You know, he was up at 5 a.m. dragging the ball fields because they had a softball game that afternoon. You know, he, you know, wasn’t at my games because he was coaching games. And it’s one of those things that, you know, 10 years ago, you know, 22 years ago when I started in my career, we all talked about, you know, kids first, kids first, kids first, kids first. And everything was about making sure we did everything for our students, everything for the kids that we interact with. And I think my perspective has changed in 20 years, 20 plus years that, you know, we can’t do anything for kids if we’re not taking care of ourselves as the adults in the building. And I joke, but it’s true.

Ryan Wamser
If five years ago I was doing a professional development for teachers and I walked in and said kids aren’t first, kids are second, and the adults in your building, if I told a group of principals, the adults, the teachers in your building were the most important thing in the school, I would have probably been run out of that. Because it’s like, that’s very self-centered and why would we talk about the adults being the most important thing? But at the end of the day, if we’re not taking care of ourselves and we’re being taken out on a stretcher in the middle of a game or from our office, or who’s gonna be there to step up and help kids if we’re not taking care of ourselves?

Ryan Wamser
So in order to put kids first, we have to put ourselves first. And I think that perspective has really changed as teacher, administrator, superintendent, and the work that I’ve done, that my job is now to try to pour into our educators and make sure that they’re taking care of themselves because the impact is there, but at the end of the day, like, this sounds crude, but, you know, on January 4th, 1994, when my dad died, on January 5th, 1994, the eighth grade kids at Bell Valley South School still had math class. Like, school continued. It didn’t shut down. Yeah, his colleagues were sad. Kids were dealing with it. We had the funeral, we did all that, but school continued. And so, but he wasn’t there to be there. So we have to take care of ourselves because this is going to go on with or without us, and we need to make sure that we’re taking care of what’s important, which is our family and our friends, and we can’t do that if we’re not here. And so I think that’s perspective for me has changed a lot in the last 22 years that, you know, it should be adult first. And I think for many of us in a giving profession, that’s hard to hear that I’m gonna put, you know, others second so that I can put myself first.

Sam Demma
One of my favorite speakers and authors is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, and I talk about him quite a bit. And he has a phrase in one of his lectures where he says, the most important thing you could provide to a relationship, whether it be professional relationship or personal relationship, is your own personal development. Because if you became more valuable yourself, think about how much more you could contribute to that other person, whether it’s a professional or personal relationship.

Sam Demma
And he said, you know, the people would say, I’ll take care of you if you take care of me. And he said, no, I’ll take care of me so that I can take care of you and you’ll take care of you so that you can take care of me. And that’s the principle or the philosophy that came to mind while you were just talking about the importance of putting ourselves first in terms of our health and wellbeing so that we can pour into others.

Sam Demma
How do you put yourself first? What are some of those practices that help Ryan stay grounded and able to show up every single day at his best?

Ryan Wamser
Well, I’m gonna preface this by saying that, none of us are perfect people, so it’s hard to stand up here and be an example of that because I’m not a great example. To be completely honest with you, in September of 2020, I was a burnt out educator

Ryan Wamser
and I walked away from the superintendency. I quit my job. I was 385 pounds, I was having anxiety attacks, panic attacks, and all that I was not taking care of myself. And so I had a colleague of mine who was also superintendent, who we were talking about, you know, our impacts on on kids and, and my dad’s name got brought up. And I said, it’s pretty cool, the school that he taught at.

Ryan Wamser
They named the gymnasium after him after he passed away, his name’s on the building. I said, that’s kind of a cool impact. And my friend, also superintendent, said, Ryan, do you want a building named after you? Or do you want a gym named after you?

Ryan Wamser
Or do you want to see your kids graduate college? And it was one of those like, you know, truth bombs that I had to take. And I had to step back and, you know, have a conversation with my wife to say, you know what, in the current context that I’m living,

Ryan Wamser
I cannot take care of myself and still do the job that I’m doing. And now most people don’t have that opportunity to say, you know what, I’m gonna leave. You know, we talk about privilege. That’s a pretty big privilege to have a wife that says, you know what, we need you, so you do what you gotta do.

Ryan Wamser
So yeah, so I do feel like I’m a failed superintendent because I walked away at that time. I took nine months off. I focused on my health, I focused on, you know, being a good father and a good husband. Like I said, though, most, unfortunately, most people can’t just quit their job and walk away to be able to do that. So that’s part of what my mission is now, you know, it’s the whole adage of, you know, the reason why the universe or God asks us to go through hard things is so when we get through the other side, we’re there to help other people get through it as well. And so that’s kind of my mission in life now is to make sure nobody gets to the point where I was where they have to walk away because our profession is the most important profession in the world as educators. And we’re losing good people, because we don’t have those people that are there to help them and pull them through.

Ryan Wamser
So for me, it’s now in my life, five years later, my health is the most important thing to me so that I’m there for my kids, being a good husband, being a good father, making sure that I have those connections with what I call B12 people in my life.

Ryan Wamser
So these are people that, like taking a B12 supplement every morning that elevate my, you know, my mood. And so I surround myself with B12 people, people that when I, I know I can talk to them at any moment, and they’re going to elevate me, they’re gonna make me better. So I have those, those, you know, that strong, small group of people that I can contact. And it’s not just people that, and that’s the thing I think we misuse that about making sure you have a strong support system because sometimes that strong support system are the people that we know we can call and complain to and vice versa, they can call and complain to us. But I also think these are also the same people that you have to be able to have a good, strong group of people who you can call and complain to us. But I also think these are also the same people that you have to be able to have a good strong group of people who you can call and celebrate to. Like you say, if I picked up the phone, I’m sure there’s five or six people that would call and let me complain about my life. Let me air all my dirty laundry out. But who are the people right now that if you had to pick up the phone and tell them some great news, who was going to be there to be a huge cheerleader, who’s going to not make it about them, who’s going to be like, tell you that’s the greatest news they’ve ever heard and just pump you up. We got to have that. And we got to have those relationships because I’ll tell you that the higher up you get in education, going from teacher to principal, from principal to district office superintendent, the less you have of those people because teachers have built in colleagues at the same level with them. They have those friends, those people in the teacher’s lounge, they become principal.

Ryan Wamser
You can’t have those same relationships with the teachers now that you’re in charge of. And then it gets even less when you become superintendent. And so having that support system, having those people around you is huge to your mental and emotional health. In addition, again, pouring into yourself, making sure that you’re taken care of, diet, exercise, and then I get on my soapbox and preach this all the time. The most underrated yet most important aspect diet, exercise, and then I get on my soapbox and preach this all the time. The most underrated yet most important aspect to our physical, mental, and emotional health is making sure we’re taking care of ourselves when it comes to sleep habits. And so that’s another one that I preach to my administrator colleagues, that making sure that they’re taking care of themselves when it comes to sleep, because nothing else can matter if we’re not getting good sleep. And those are all things, looking back five years ago, I wasn’t sleeping well, wasn’t healthy, didn’t have those people that I was actively searching for to reach out to, to be part of my inner circle. And so not only do I do that now, but then I make sure that I’m part of those people’s inner circle as well to hold people accountable and expect them to hold me accountable as well.

Sam Demma
I’m going to start asking people before they enter my circle. Show me your vitamins. Show me your vitamins stack.

Ryan Wamser
It is true. Here’s a little trick that I came up with over Christmas this year. I had a friend of mine who I taught with, and he said, and he retired and he went back and now he’s teaching at a Catholic school because he’s retired from the public school system. And he said the diocese, the Catholic school, gave every teacher a $500 bonus at Christmas time. I was like, man, that’s awesome. That doesn’t happen in the public school system.

Ryan Wamser
It’s not built in to give bonuses. And so I was just pumping them up, telling them how great that was. And he goes, you know what? I called some of my friends that I used to teach with and I was excited about this $500 bonus.

Ryan Wamser
And I just wanted to share with somebody. And he goes, none of them were happy for me. None of them were happy for me. And so it just made me realize like, you know what, so think about that. Now, we’re probably not going to call people that we win the Powerball or the mega jackpot. All your friends. On a small scale, you went 500 bucks at a local raffle or grocery store or something, you know, who would you call and who would be

Ryan Wamser
fired up and excited for you? I mean, that’s something that’s just a little simple thing that I thought of over Christmas, like, who’s going to be there to tell you how great you are and how awesome that is? Or who’s going to make it about themselves? Or flip it around? Man, I wish I had 500 bucks. Well, can you give me five? Give me some of that? No. And that’s just a little something, like who are those people that, like I said, who are those B12 people that are gonna be there to cheer you on?

Sam Demma
I love that frame. It’s such a powerful way to look at connection and relationships and the people we wanna spend more time surrounding ourselves with. I, about a year ago now, was sitting at a restaurant eating dinner before a speaking engagement the next day for 800 high school students for a STEM conference. And I like talking to strangers, especially when I’m traveling alone. So I sat up by the bar and was watching the hockey game. This gentleman was sitting beside me just under his breath saying stuff about the game.

Sam Demma
And I made some funny comments that related to what he was saying. And we start talking and we end up sitting at that bar for four hours. His name’s Ron and he’s now a close friend.

Sam Demma
We talk maybe once every two months over the phone. That was our only interaction in person. And every once in a while, he’ll just call me and share some ideas that he thinks are helpful for the work that I’m doing. Out of the blue, Sam, here’s some ideas for you. And he calls me this one day and he goes, do you got a paper? Grab a piece of paper right now. I’m like, okay, Ron, I’m grabbing some paper. I run over to my desk and I put this paper down and he goes, Sam, think about this as something you could share on stage.

Sam Demma
Every day, our phone rings dozens of times. And throughout the course of our lives, our phone rings thousands or millions of times. And in a split moment, we look at the phone, we look at the name of the person who’s who’s calling us, and we make a decision, do we pick up the phone? Or do we let it ring through to voicemail or hang up? How do you live your life in a way that when your name shows up on someone else’s phone, they always pick it up. And I was like, whoa, this is such a cool idea.

Sam Demma
And while you were talking about those people you can call, I also thought about, you know, how you said, you know, you also wanna be that person for others and would they pick up the phone call and would they be excited to call you? I think is just as powerful as a frame.

Sam Demma
And shout out to Ronald McDougal. Thanks for the thanks for that. And anyway, I’m getting sidetracked a little bit just passionate about that whole idea of making sure that we’re surrounding ourselves with good human beings, and being there to support and celebrate and to answer the call when other people are wanting to support or wanting to be celebrated.

Sam Demma
There are lots of different involvements and developments going on in education. What do you think are some of the big opportunities that exist currently in education?

Ryan Wamser
Well, I think the opportunity is how do we get back this, how do we reframe educations that we’re getting people into the field? I think that’s our biggest, our biggest problem, especially in Illinois is, you know, we lack the numbers of teachers that we need, you know, to fulfill the jobs that we currently have, let alone what’s going to happen in the future. You know, when I first started off as an assistant principal and we’d get a job opening, back when everybody sent paper resumes and packets in, we would have like nine paper box, you know, like copy paper boxes. We’d have like nine paper boxes full of job applicants, you know, just, and now, you know, you’re lucky if you get six people to apply for a job, you know, and so that’s the opportunity I think is, got to go back to, you know, I grew up, like I said, my dad was an educator, all of his friends were educators, I never heard them. Talk, I never I’ve never heard them say anything negative about education negative about their jobs, they love their jobs, they, they always were laughing always were having a great time. You know, they spent all of their free time at school, which means I spent all my free time at school.

Ryan Wamser
And so we have the opportunity now to reframe the fact that yes, it’s not the same as it was in the early 80s education and teaching is, but we have the opportunity. It’s still the greatest profession in the world in my opinion.

Ryan Wamser
And how do we reframe that so that we get away from, well, I don’t want my kids being teachers. I don’t want them being teachers. Oh, you know, and a lot of those people that are saying that are our teachers, you know, that are saying, I don’t want my kids. And so we have the opportunity to reframe that and truly, um, you know, we have to do our best to, to raise up kids that, like me, who the reason why they are who they are is because of their teachers. And I think if we can reframe that, we have the opportunity to truly take back education and get good people back in the field. Because right now it’s a real struggle to recruit and retain people. And I think part of that is, you know, having great leaders, we have to make sure we’re supporting them. We have to make sure we trust them. We have to make sure we give them what they need. And then we have to get out of their way.

Ryan Wamser
And then hold people accountable when we need to. I think that’s part of any good relationship is to hold people accountable because we all want to be held accountable when we need to be. But I think that’s the big opportunity that we have. And I think it’s going to be a make it or break it here in the next couple of years of whether or not we’re going to be able to fulfill these positions.

Sam Demma
It’s the same in Canada. It’s the same among many of the people that I talk to in education right now. It’s one of the reasons I started this podcast was to share the story of educators that are loving the work they’re doing and sharing the journey about how they got there. So I hope that these sorts of conversations play some role in getting some more young people excited about the work. And I appreciate the  intention you have on shifting the conversation. I think it starts with that awareness and that intention. So thank you for the work that you’re doing. Thank you for spending some time here on the podcast today to share about your experiences and philosophies around education and the importance of adult first, or wellness and self development first before before others and other things to talk a little bit about the needs of educators or what it means to succeed in terms of our own well-being and placing that first. I really enjoyed just chopping it up and learning more about you and your journey. And I look forward to meeting again this summer.

Sam Demma
Until then, keep up the amazing work you’re doing. And we’ll talk again soon, right?

Ryan Wamser
Likewise, Sam, I appreciate you. Appreciate everything that you’re doing.

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The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 8, 2025 by Director of Education Educator Superintendent 0

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