Student Leadership

Daniel Klapper — Vice President of Student Services at Western USC

Daniel Klapper — Vice President of Student Services at Western USC
About Daniel Klapper

Daniel Klapper is the USC’s Vice President of Student Services. In this role, he works with all USC-led services to provide the best experience and support to Western Undergraduate Students. 

He is responsible for the oversight of the PurpleCare Trust, Clubs System, Peer Support Centre, Food Support, the USC’s new professional development program, as well as to support the good governance of the University Students’ Council. 

Connect with Daniel Klapper: Email | Instagram | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Western USC

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Daniel Klapper. Daniel serves as the Vice President of Student Services for the University Students Council of Western Ontario, where he oversees a comprehensive network of support systems designed to enhance the Western undergraduate Student Experience. His responsibilities span crucial student resources, including the Purple Care Trust, Club System, Peer Support Center, food support initiatives, while also driving the USC’s new professional development program. Beyond direct service delivery, Daniel plays a key role in maintaining good governance practices within the USC, ensuring the organization remains responsive to student needs.

Sam Demma
Daniel, thank you so much for taking some time during this busy season to come on the podcast.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, of course. Thank you for having me. Super excited.

Sam Demma
Introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about who you are and how you got into the work you’re doing today with the USC.

Daniel Klapper
Sure, sure. So I guess beyond the nice introduction you had there, obviously my name is Daniel. I’m the Vice President of Student Services. But beyond that, I’m an ex-Western student as well. So I graduated last year. But this year has been super exciting for me because obviously working for the USC has been such an amazing privilege and such a unique experience as well. So super excited to kind of dive into some of that and tell you about a bit of the experiences and some of the programs that we’re working on as well. Speaking of programs, you oversee so many different programs with the USC.

Sam Demma
Tell me about some of them. Um, and any of your, uh, not that you have favorites, but any of the ones that you’re very passionate about. Yeah, definitely. I mean, the student services portfolio is unique because, um, it encapsulates so much.

Daniel Klapper
So whereas other portfolios, they have advocacy initiatives and they cover advocacy kind of broadly. The student services portfolio, um, is a little bit of everything. And I guess for background, for most people who don’t know much about the USC, it hasn’t always been like this.

Daniel Klapper
So the student services role, this is the second year that it’s actually being conducted like this before the USC operated with a vice president of governance and finance. And there were all of these little portfolios that kind of were spread across the organization, either under programming or under some advocacy initiatives. The club system was kind of here and there, a little bit of everywhere. And then they kind of realized, they’re kind of neglecting all of these portfolios because they get overshadowed by the big things like concerts, orientation week, the massive programming that the university puts on. And then also getting overshadowed by like the year over year advocacy initiatives that the USC does. And so what they did was they transitioned the role from a finance role where a student would kind of oversee the budgets. And then we obviously, we have full-time staff who deal with all the accounting. So they moved that and they kind of pooled all of the services and initiatives together and threw them under one portfolio and that becoming the student services portfolio. So that’s kind of how we came to be. Obviously, like you said, we have food support, peer support, the new professional development portfolio, which has been kind of like a majority of what I’ve been working on this year is kind of getting that up and running. That’s a little bit of a passion project of mine but we also have things like Pride USC, grants and recognition which are super important so that that touches on like the scholarships and then the LGBTQ support as well from from the western side but kind of a lot of portfolios and then the REACH program as well, which technically isn’t a service, but touches on that as well. And that one’s near and dear to my heart because I actually got my start in the USC in second year by volunteering for that program.

Daniel Klapper
So kind of a full circle moment is it’s the first thing I started with. And actually when my contract ends this year, it’ll be the last program that I actually hold. So kind of a fun full circle.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about the professional development portfolio that you’ve been spending a lot of time working on.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah. So the professional development portfolio came from, uh, our president currently Emily Klagen. So she, when she was running her, her campaign, uh, she was pretty heavy on increasing the professional development support that undergraduate students have access to. Um. And so when I was hired, we started looking to, how can we make the university experience enjoyable beyond simply hosting concerts and offering services to students? Like, what are they lacking? And what we kind of figured is students need jobs. They need the connections. They need the network that at this point, everyone knows how hard it is right now to get internships and get jobs, and to kind of get that extra experience beyond your education. And the professional development portfolio was the USC solution to that.

Daniel Klapper
So we host events like the peer AI learning sessions, which are essentially students teaching other students from various faculties how to use artificial intelligence to increase their literacy with AI and kind of just overall level the playing field when it comes to the use of artificial intelligence in classrooms. We also have something coming up called the Professional Development Gala, where we get a bunch of professionals from various industries. So we’ve got some lawyers, some consultants, some publishers, doctors, and we get them all in the same room. And we’re essentially extending the USC’s alumni to the undergraduate student body. Because, yeah, that’s one of the nice things that the USC has is they have a really, like extensive, you like alumni network. So there’s hundreds of people who have worked for the USC over the last 40 so years. And they’re all really connected and they always come back and they always participate in events.

Daniel Klapper
But usually it’s just the executives who have access to those individuals, right? Like there’s some really great people. So we wanted to kind of extend that network to students this year and make sure that they have an opportunity to chat with people and see what’s out there. Kind of same that we have this year.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome, man. I think about some of the most meaningful experiences I had in school and it wasn’t so much the lessons learned in the classroom, although those are also very important. It was those extended opportunities where I was able to ask questions. I was very curious about to industry professionals or when people took the time to provide me with unique opportunities that really helped me develop my soft skills. It sounds like the professional development portfolio really does that. I know that REACH also does that for a different subset of students.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about that program and why you’re so passionate about it.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, so the REACH program is similar. I guess you could consider it professional development for grade seven and eight. So it’s been around for a while, actually. So it started in 2004. This is like the history of the REACH program here as a history major. But so started in 2004, and they called it the choose your own adventure game. And so the idea was, you get 250 or 300 grade seven and eight students, and they come onto campus and they do a choose your own adventure, where you pick different classes. And by the end of the weekend, you kind of see where your career is heading based off of the decisions that you made throughout the weekend. Funnily enough, we got or we as in the USC was actually sued because choose your own adventure is a trademark for that book that they made. So they actually, in like the mid 2000s, they were sued for using the name, Choose Your Own Adventure, and they swapped it over to the early outreach program. So that’s kind of how that name came about. The idea is kind of similar, same idea, but we’ve kind of switched it over. So essentially we take 300 students from various grade schools from across the London Middlesex community. We try to pick the schools that are feeder schools into the high schools that have the lowest dropout rates or the highest dropout rates, sorry. And the idea is to bring them on campus. They stay at Ontario Hall, which is one of the nicest residents on campus. They eat there. They have parties in the Wave, which is our restaurant and bar on campus. Obviously everything’s shut down, no alcohol or anything like that, but they have the opportunity to kind of like hang out in the same spaces that undergraduate students do. And they really connect with it. And they have the opportunity to talk to university students. Over 80 volunteers come out and really just have a good time.

Daniel Klapper
And then on top of that, they get to hang out with some professors. They go to mock classes. So they’ll go to anthropology class, and like, dust things off of dinosaur bones or make slime in the chemistry lab. So the opportunities there are kind of endless. But the real goal is that they go into high school the year after. And that weekend long experience really has a profound impact on them. And they leave thinking like, hey, like university is something that I’m capable of doing. It’s something that it’s accessible to me. And it’s not just for students who have 100% in all their classes. And it’s not just for students who come from wealthy families, like there’s opportunity for financial aid.

Daniel Klapper
We teach them how to write a resume so that they can get jobs. Really anything that’s just going to set their mind in the right track so that when they do get to high school, they start thinking about like, how can I improve my grades? How can I improve my extracurriculars?

Daniel Klapper
And like I’m setting a goal for myself that Western is where I want to go. And we’ve had a pretty good, like proven track record. And we have some students now who volunteer for the program who actually attended the program when they were in grade seven and eight and actually went to Western because of the impact that the program had on them. So has a special place in my heart because of great relationships, but also seen how it affects students that young really how much of a positive impact it has on them.

Sam Demma
I always tell people I think the most important gift you can give a young person is belief in themselves. And I think it’s any human being, not just young people, but when you are exposed to that at a much younger age, it can change the course of your entire life. It sounds like that is the impact that the program is having, and I hope it continues long after you transition as well.

Daniel Klapper
And hopefully no one gets sued.

Daniel Klapper
We’ve, we’ve upped the, uh, the parameters for like making sure it’s all, all set in stone and everything we’ve, we’ve gone to the point now, post COVID where we’re running the same program year over year, it just gets better and better. So it’s in a good spot and hopefully it can continue. I’m sure I’ll come back to volunteer even when I’m back in my master’s.

Sam Demma
You work in student services. You support the diverse needs of the entire population across the campus. How do you determine what students need? There’s a lot of schools that have students and they wanna figure out out what do we, what clubs do we start? What, what services do we promote and provide? How have you guys kind of figured out what, what students need on campus.

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, it’s actually, I would say that is the most like difficult part of working for a student union is like, you would think it’s so obvious and that students are so straightforward with what they want. But it’s actually much harder to engage with the student population than like at face value what you would think and it’s not as simple as going out or putting a survey out of like, what do you want? Because there’s the saying like, if you build it, they will come but we’ve we’ve learned very, very many times if you build it, they sometimes don’t come and there’s no reason. And so it’s this like continuous effort, honestly, not even on my part, but mostly on our student engagement part. So Shreya, she works full time as the vice president of student engagement. And that’s kind of her job this year is really figuring out like, how do we talk to the students who aren’t part of that bubble, who look at all of our posts, right? We have a pretty good following on Instagram. around 40,000 students, but the student population as a whole is much bigger than that. So how do we get the student who doesn’t want to come to the concert? They don’t want to come to craft nigh.

Daniel Klapper
and they’re not interested in any advocacy initiatives. They just want to go to school and come back? How do we make sure that we’re also servicing those needs, even if they’re not voicing their opinion, right? And that’s been a challenge. I think we’ve done a great job this year, in particular with the UA and EA roles, which is University Affairs and External Affairs. And then as well as our president going out and talking to students, kind of meeting them where they’re at, doing a lot of initiatives in the atrium, which is like the big building that we have here, right in the center, and just kind of, whether it’s doing a kahoot to kind of tell students about what we’re working on, or doing a massive survey with some giveaways, just kind of like making sure we have an informed decision as to what students want. And then the other time, other times it’s kind of just a guess, right? Like we were students ourselves once, so we have a unique perspective as like as to what is required. So the professional development is a perfect example. When we’re planning these events, we’re not necessarily going out and asking students like hey would you come to a gala if we host it? It’s more a personal experience that if I was in second year, if I was in third year and the university invited me to a gala with 30 to 40 professional individuals and they charged five dollars to get in, no chance, like no chance I’m passing that up, right? So like those are the types of things where it’s not always necessary to kind of hear feedback from students but it definitely does help make an informed decision of whether or not the program continues or whether or not the services actually being used. So lots of feedback, but also just personal experience and trial and error, I guess.

Daniel Klapper
You’re so close in age still to a lot of the students and you can put yourself in their shoes and understand some of the challenges they’re going through.

Sam Demma
It sounds like the $5 professional gala night is a massive success. Is it really highly attended by students and something that you guys do every year?

Daniel Klapper
Yeah, so we this is the first one that we’ve done. So it’s happening on March 19th. So we’re tickets are still up for sale. So we’re still pushing that and making sure that every student knows about it. Sometimes, like I said, Instagram can be an awesome way to get the word out, but honestly, sometimes we have to reach out personally.

Daniel Klapper
Like we’ve got 230 plus clubs, a lot of them being business clubs, women in leadership, STEM club. And sometimes we just reach out to them like, hey, we’re hosting this event, we’re thinking of you and we’re designing it.

Daniel Klapper
We’d love for you to come out and that’s sometimes the best way to get people out. With the AI stuff too, we’re reaching out to the people who are interested in that. So when we were hosting our most recent session was in January, we did applications of AI in entrepreneurship and business and we made sure that we involved the Ivy students in the conversation and the BMOS students because they’re kind of the ones who are looking for that type of info. So we’ve done a pretty good job at kind of pushing our events.

Daniel Klapper
And honestly, we have a full time team who works on promotions, all the graphics, all the social media as well. And they’re absolutely killers at what they do. So I can’t take any credit for it because I’m not great with the whole social media thing. it for it because I’m not great with the whole social media thing, but it’s definitely, definitely an art of knowing when to post, when not to post, when to repost, and they’ve got it down to a T, so they do a pretty good job. When you think of events that the USC hosts that are classics, like people love them, and maybe you’ve heard from other people on the team that we’ve done these for the past 12 years and it’s always a hit. Are there any ideas that another school team listening to this could think about replicating on their campuses? I know there’s a lot of educators also listening that want to engage their students in grade 12 and grade 11 and they might be able to borrow some ideas. Yeah, absolutely.

Daniel Klapper
I mean, one of the things that’s nice about this job is we’ve had the opportunity to meet a lot of student councils from across Canada. So we attended conference in British Columbia called SUDS hosted by the AMS over at UBC. And it was fantastic. We got to talk to hundreds of other student leaders and really get to hear about what are they working on? How does their club system work? How do you guys host events? Really at the end of the day, it comes down to money. And I think that’s an issue that everyone faces is things are expensive. One thing that we’ve noticed this year is beyond the classic, like if you were to ask a university student at Western, what’s the classic event at the USC hosts that everyone’s gonna go to? It’s always the concerts. So we’ve set a pretty big name for ourself by bringing some pretty big artists like Sway Lee, Quavo, all these really great, Josh Ross, another one country artist. But beyond that, I think the smaller programming, which is what Sarah Fullerton, our vice president of programming, has done a really great job of this year, is finding the students who don’t wanna come to the concerts and hosting things like craft night. We’ve done paint and sip where we host wine nights in the wave and you get to come out. 20 bucks gets you two glasses of wine and a canvas and paint all set up, ready to go.

Daniel Klapper
Bingo was huge. We hosted bingo a couple of times. Sells out instantly. Battle of the bands has been really cool. I actually just was sitting in Sarah’s office right before this watching rehear- or like audition tapes of students who want to show off their talent, they want to show off the band that they have, and those are cheap events because we don’t have to pay anyone to do that, but it gives students an opportunity to come out and really engage with each other, sit in the smoke, grab a drink, grab some food, and just listen to other student artists. I think those have been super successful this year. And I think probably something that the USC will continue to do. Another thing that we brought back is, not every school has this, but it’s not hard to do. But we have like an auditorium that can be turned into a movie theater. And post COVID, it kind of was abandoned.

Daniel Klapper
We hadn’t used it in a while. So one of the initiatives that Emily proposed in her platform was movie nights. So we’ve been doing like Tuesday movies, free to come. You’d basically just show up, first come, first serve. We’ve been buying the rights to like old movies.

Daniel Klapper
So Halloween, we went and watched The Shining, they had some horror movies, and then Christmas movies, and then now they’re doing classics. So you can go on a Tuesday night, first 25 people to show up get free popcorn. So those are all things that we don’t have to pay much for. But we see awesome engagement from the students. And it might not be your 4000 person concert, but you compound those small events over and over again across various areas of interest on campus. And by the end of the year, you have a student body that’s really gotten to experience something awesome with their peers.

Sam Demma
One of my friends is obsessed with marketing and he says, someone has to interact with your stuff for seven hours before they make a decision to feel like they’re a part of your products and services and a part of your mission and your movement. And I think about it from the same perspective of students on a campus.

Sam Demma
Even if they just attended the concert, maybe it’s still not enough for them to really feel like they’re involved. They got to have these other touch points throughout the year, which are all these other amazing opportunities for them to build more relationships, meet new people, steal some popcorn and watch some movies.

Sam Demma
I’m curious when you think about your own professional development in this role and in other roles you’ve been in, are there any resources or people or mentors that have had a really monumental impact on you? And if so, like what were those resources or people and what did they do for you?

Daniel Klapper
Yeah. So, I mean, I’ve had a pretty unique university experience that I think most people don’t typically have in the sense that I probably did more work for free extracurricular wise than I did school and so I spent all of my free time whether it was with the Pre-law society participating in mooting competitions or mock trials, or last year I was on the social science student council running their finances. And I found that to be the best way for me to kind of interact with people because I came in second year after a year of COVID online, right?

Daniel Klapper
So I showed up to the university with my three closest best friends. We lived in an apartment together and our second year we did nothing. We went to class, we came home, we watched movies, we made food and repeat. We didn’t know that the USC existed, we didn’t know who our president was and we didn’t know that there were clubs available to us. And then in my third year I started to think and I was like, you know what, like it’s about time I get out there and start testing out the stuff that’s available to me.

Daniel Klapper
So I looked into the club system really. And I looked at, at the time I wanted to be a lawyer, and now I’ve kind of pivoted more to the business side. But at the time I looked at the pre-law society and was like, oh years older, but they’re running all these awesome initiatives. And I looked at the vice president of finance for a club or the president of a club, and to me, they were like the highest of high that you could get at university. And I looked at them and thought, like, I wanna be one of them one day. I wanna be a president of a club.

Daniel Klapper
I wanna help organize the budget for the pre-law society or the mooting society. And so I just started showing up. And when I started showing up, I noticed that I call it like the snowball effect. But before I knew it, I was going from one club and then I was on an executive team. And one guy was on an executive team for another thing. And he’s like, hey, come out to our one networking event. And next thing you know know you end up meeting like this spider web of people who are all connected on campus. And in the end it resulted in me having this job because by the time two years had passed I went from not knowing that the USC existed and thinking that being a part of a club was untouchable, something that only the highest of high people could achieve to overseeing the entire club system in two years. And so I always think about the people that I met along the way who kind of introduced me. So whether it was the social science president from two years ago, Bianca, or like looking at the USC president that time, which was Ethan Gardner and thinking like, hey, these people are pretty accomplished and they kind of, like just listening to them talk, even though I didn’t really have personal relationships with them, just like seeing that they were able to do it

Daniel Klapper
and that they also came from like a social science background, really inspired me to kind of get involved. Although my friends never kind of came with me, so my roommates never got involved on campus. They stuck to their studies.

Daniel Klapper
Mind you, they’re engineers, software engineers, and medical science students. So I’m sure their classes were a lot harder than the history student who had a bit more free time on his hand. But yeah, all those club presidents and then the USC execs really inspired me to kind of get involved and kind of make a name for myself on campus. And then eventually the job opened up for this and put my name forward and it worked out well so far.

Sam Demma
It sounds like it has, and I’m sure it will continue to. I’m so grateful that you took some time to come on the show, share some of your lessons learned in education and the work you’re doing, share some ideas around supporting students. I hope that the rest of the academic year goes really well. I’ll be rooting you on from the sideline. Good luck at the golf tournament we’ll touch base again soon.

Daniel Klapper
Awesome. Thank you. Pray for good weather.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Daniel Klapper

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

June 5, 2025 by Education Student Success 0

Julie McGillivray — Counsellor at St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School

Julie McGillivray — Counsellor at St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School
About Julie McGillivray

Julie McGillivray has been an educator for over a decade, and she shares her passion for learning with her students. She embraces the philosophy that kindness costs nothing but pays huge returns.

When she isn’t sharing her joy in the classroom, you can find her spending time with her family and dog on beautiful Georgian Bay, dancing like nobody is watching in her kitchen, or perpetually searching for her lost set of keys. 

Connect with Julie McGillivray: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

St. Francis Xavier Catholic Secondary School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie McGillivrayWelcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. Today we are joined by my friend and special guest, Julie . Julie has been an educator for over a decade, and she shares her passion for learning with her students. She embraces the philosophy that kindness costs nothing,

Sam Demma
but pays huge returns. Julie also kindly organized the Empt Your Backpack Reading Guide and created it to help readers engage more deeply with Empty Your Backpack and reflect on its transformative lessons. When she isn’t sharing her joy in the classroom, you can find her spending time with her family and dog on the beautiful Georgian Bay, dancing like nobody’s watching in her kitchen, or perpetually searching for her lost set of keys. Julie, thank you so much for coming on the show.

Julie McGillivray
Thank you for having me.

Sam Demma
You’re very welcome. Tell me a little bit about what got you into education.

Julie McGillivray
Well, I always wanted to be a teacher since I was a young girl. I think it was having some teachers that really had an impact on me when I was younger. And unfortunately, I did not get into teachers college outside of university. I tried for three years to get into teachers college just after I finished university. And I was unsuccessful each time for a variety of reasons. And I gave up on that dream.

Julie McGillivray
And instead, I decided to pivot and do something else. But it was always in the back of my mind that I wanted to be a teacher. And the year that I was turning 40, I was at my job at a leadership development company, we went into organizations and help them with their communication help teams with their leadership development, we did experiential learning. And I

Julie McGillivray
loved that job. But I was sitting at my desk one day, and I decided, you know what, if I don’t do it now, I’m never going to do it. I decided to take the monumental leap and go back to school. And I went to Teachers College and gratefully was hired when I graduated and I’ve been teaching ever since.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about the mental challenge you went through of changing, making that decision to make the jump because there’s a lot of people that are so worried and scared about making a big change in their lives, but sometimes on the other end of those big changes are beautiful opportunities and things that bring us more joy and fulfillment than we could have ever imagined we would have got in a previous position. Walk me through that decision and how you found the courage to kind of make it.

Julie McGillivray
Well, it was really scary, So I’m grateful that you said, use the word courage, because it was scary for me. I had children, I had three children at home. I had a husband who traveled quite frequently with work. And it meant that my entire family had to make some sacrifices in order for me to go back to school. Because my kids were younger, I knew that I couldn’t go to school full time. I could not go five days a week because they were in activities and they needed their mom at home. Prior to me going back to work, I was a stay at home mom for nine years. So it was really scary to think that I was going to be away from my kids. But I took the leap because I would strongly believe that it’s never too late to make a change in your life.

Julie McGillivray
And to me, teaching is a calling, it is a passion, it is not just a job. And so I just, I felt, I guess, to be, not to sound cliche, but I felt the fear and I did it anyway.

Sam Demma
Yeah. I love the idea of it being a calling and a passion, not a job. I found that I’ve done my best work when I didn’t think about it as work. I thought about it as something I was supposed to do. Like I was using gifts and talents to really be of service in some way. And it sounds like you have the same philosophy around education. Tell me about the parts of the work that bring you the most joy and fulfillment.

Julie McGillivray
Absolutely. It is having relationships with the students. I chose to teach high school. I had an opportunity. I probably could have been hired maybe a little bit quicker because I had an opportunity to teach in an elementary school setting. But I knew that teenagers were really who I wanted to

Julie McGillivray
help facilitate their learning. I think I would have been better there. So I waited, I was very patient, it took me a long time to get hired permanent as a permanent teacher. But yeah, it’s the relationships, it’s seeing kids at a period of time in their life when so much is going on mentally, physically,

Julie McGillivray
they’ve got lots of things happening in their life and just to be able to facilitate their learning is just, it’s so special to me. And when you have a relationship with a child that, you know, you can tell that you matter, and it’s just, it makes all the difference. I’ve always, I was an English teacher before, currently I work in student services and guidance, but I was an English teacher before

Julie McGillivray
and teaching kids, for example, to love reading, to appreciate a good book or a good story and to have their light bulbs go on and say, wow, I really enjoyed that. It just made all the difference. I, I smile when I think about teaching because I know it is hard work and I’m not going to lie. There are some days that are better than others, but truthfully, I love it. I love coming to work every single day. And it’s been like that for, you know, almost 14 years.

Sam Demma
You said building the relationships with the students is one of the most fulfilling parts of the work for you. How do you build that relationship with a student to the degree where they know that you really have their best interest in your heart? And, you know, they open up about things and they really, they feel comfortable around you because I think about the teachers that I really connected with and they really built solid relationships, professional relationships with me. But I like thinking back, I’m trying to figure out how, like what is it that they did that was different? And I’m curious what your thoughts are.

Julie McGillivray
Well, I can’t be anything other than myself. I’m a pretty gregarious person. I am an extrovert and I do really like to chitter chatter. But I think that kids, particularly teenagers, but all kids really, they can smell when they, they can smell it when it’s not. And so I can, I don’t have a blueprint other than being myself.

Julie McGillivray
And so I know for me, for example, having someone say good morning to you matters. You know, I know for me, having someone smile at me and acknowledge me and see me matters. And so that’s what I try to bring into my classroom. And it’s not always easy. But I do think that every single person that enters a classroom is deserving of respect and is deserving of the opportunity to shine in their own way. And so my job as an educator is to help them recognize that little things like I don’t know, I like to talk to my students, I asked them every day in my class, we would have a question to end the day. It could be whatever. What’s your favorite color? If you were an animal, what would you be?

Julie McGillivray
And just to spend that five or 10 minutes that’s not focused on curriculum, but actually focused on them as a student or as a person, I think that that matters. Kindness costs nothing but pays huge return.

Sam Demma
Those two actions of greeting somebody or complimenting somebody are things that are free of monetary cost but can have a big impact. Tell me more about that philosophy about kindness costing nothing, but paying huge returns.

Julie McGillivray
You know what, Sam, my mom, uh, God bless her. She passed away a few years ago. I was blessed to have my mom in my life for 93 years. Well, she was not mine. I need to be 93. Um, but my mom was kind to everyone that she met. And to me, I think it’s just that simple,

Julie McGillivray
that everyone is deserving of your kindness. And it really takes no time at all to smile at someone and say something nice. So I always used to tell when I did teach in grade eight, I always used to tell my students that every time you open your mouth, you have an opportunity to make someone’s day or break someone’s day. And that’s a very big responsibility for us all as humans. like it’s all rose-colored glasses and pie in the sky, but I do believe that small acts of kindness can go a long way, particularly for students that might be struggling outside of school.

Julie McGillivray
They might not have a family life that is conducive to building them up. And so you can make all the difference by being a caring and supportive adult, somebody who’s just kind. So that’s my philosophy.

Sam Demma
You were talking about your mom. And I instantly thought of my grandfather who always was looking for those opportunities to make somebody else feel special and appreciated and included and valued. And I just know how much of an impact it had on those people because long after he’s gone, they’re still talking about it.

Sam Demma
You know, like I visit family and they’ll bring up my grandfather’s name and he passed away when I was 13. It’s been over a decade now. And I think that we underestimate how much of a difference those acts of kindness can have on other people. Have you had, aside from your mom, mentors or people in your life who showed you that level of kindness as well that really guided you down your path or supported you through challenging moments? I did actually, I had a university professor, I was in my second year of university. Her name was Dr. Oh, gosh, it’s been so long. I think her I know her first name was Nancy. She passed away. But I was struggling to make ends meet financially. And when you’re an English major, you need to read an awful lot of different novels, and they’re not always available in the library. And I went to her office, and I said to her, it was just this one book that we needed to read that

Julie McGillivray
I was I just didn’t have the funds to purchase the book. And I just went to her office and asked her if she could possibly loan me one copy so that I could stay up with the reading. And she told me to come back the next day to her office. And so I did. And when I got there, she was not in her office. But her, the person that was working there said, Oh, Oh, Dr. Bailey was her name. Nancy.

Julie McGillivray
Is it funny how when you go through a story, the names pop back in your head? Yeah. I guess her assistant said, Dr. Bailey has left this for you. And it was a bag and it was full of every one of the books that the course had brand new. She had purchased for me and I’ll never forget the card said, please accept this as a token of my respect and friendship. And it meant the world to me because the fact that she had so many students and she was so busy and she didn’t really know me,

Julie McGillivray
I was just, you know, it was kind of new in her class and she just, it made such an impact on me. So when I graduated university, I was so excited when I saw her across Johnson Green. I went to Guelph University and when I saw her across Johnson Green, I’ll never forget it. I got, it was, she’s the one professor I have a picture of on my graduation day and I introduced her to my parents and I was just so grateful for that small act of kindness. I did not, I did not need all of those books. I only needed the one, but the fact

Julie McGillivray
that she went above and beyond just meant the world to me. So definitely a mentor and to be honest, I have so many mentors in my life, colleagues that I work with that are so helpful. Going back to teacher’s college at 40 years old was not easy. And entering the arena of education as a woman with graying hair, working with students or other teachers that were maybe, you know, they could be my kids. It was very humbling experience. And so I had to ask for help and they were so gracious. So I’ve had so many acts of kindness given to me.

Julie McGillivray
It only makes sense to pay it forward.

Sam Demma
Your story gave me goosebumps. It’s such a- I haven’t thought about it in a long time actually. That’s such an impactful story and I appreciate you sharing it. I think that again, we sometimes underestimate how those actions have an impact on others. And you know, here we are years

Sam Demma
later talking about it and haven’t thought about it. But when I asked you that question, it pops in your head. And I just think that the world would be a much better place if everyone operated from that level of energy where they’re looking for ways to help others or if there’s a call for help that we do answer it.

Sam Demma
When you think of your journey through education, what are any of the resources or people while you’ve been in this school for the past 14 years that have been really helpful to you? Are there any additional mentors or resources that have shaped your thinking around working with young people?

Julie McGillivray
I’ll tell you, I think that leadership is really important in school and I have been extremely blessed to work with administrators that are, they don’t just talk the talk, they walk the walk. So yes, I had at the beginning of my teaching career, I was fortunate enough to work with an administrator who provided me opportunities to grow and challenge myself as a teacher. And that could, that was by the way of giving me, you know, courses that maybe I hadn’t thought about teaching before, although I was qualified for them, I was, you know, scared to maybe approach the subject matter.

Julie McGillivray
And seeing something in me and giving me an opportunity that maybe I wouldn’t have done myself because I would be too fearful. So that is a real blessing. Scary. I haven’t taught the same, I mean I tend to teach different courses every year and so that was hard because sometimes you know you want to get something down and you want to be able to perfect it and so sometimes I found it challenging but I’m looking back really grateful for the opportunity to do

Julie McGillivray
new things and different things. Wasn’t always, didn’t always feel that way when I had to do all of the planning. But I’m grateful for those leaders and mentors. I also had a department head when I first started at this school who was instrumental in providing me with a safe and compassionate space to talk about, you know, some things that maybe I was struggling with

Julie McGillivray
being a new slash old teacher. And that colleague of mine, I’m happy to call a friend right now and saw something in me and was able to provide me that safe space. So surrounding yourself with people that you can be your authentic self with is, in my opinion, just so important

Julie McGillivray
to our own growth and development. And so that’s why in my classroom, I’m really mindful of providing a safe space for students to be themselves.

Sam Demma
I always tell people in my life that old is not an age, it’s an energy. And you have young energy.

Julie McGillivray
Gray hair.

Sam Demma
Hey, I’m starting to get gray hair too, and I’m only 25. So it has to be an energy or else I got to start dying it. I don’t know what’s going on. This has been such a lovely conversation, Julie. I really appreciate you taking some time to talk about your beliefs about education and building relationships with students and staff. The idea of kindness costing nothing, paying huge returns, and sharing a few personal stories. I am a fan, and I will continue to follow your journey. And if someone else is listening and wanting to reach out and connect with you, another educator, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Julie McGillivray
Probably by my email only because I’m that old that I’m not big on social media.

Sam Demma
That’s okay.

Julie McGillivray
I work for the Halton Catholic District School Board happily and you can find me there.

Sam Demma
Thank you so much for coming on the show, Julia. I really appreciate your time and all the hard work you’re doing.

Julie McGillivray
Sam, thank you so much for writing an amazing book. Thank you. It’s helped my students immensely and thank you for all of the work that you do.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Julie McGillivray

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 29, 2025 by Counsellor Education Educator School Counsellor 0

Tony Bisceglia — Principal of James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School

Tony Bisceglia — Principal of James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School
About Tony Bisceglia

Tony Bisceglia combines his roles as an Urban High Priority Educator and coach with entrepreneurship, while being a father of four. His dedication to education in high-priority urban settings, alongside his entrepreneurial spirit, shapes his multi-faceted approach to making an impact – and while he didn’t invent Pickleball, he’s certainly enthusiastic about it.

Connect with Tony Bisceglia: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

James Cardinal McGuigan Catholic High School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Tony Bisceglia, Principal at JCM Cardinal McGuigan, one of the best schools. They are a high performance athletic school, the only one in the Toronto Catholic District School Board, which we’ll talk about during the interview today.

Sam Demma
Tony combines his roles as an urban high priority educator and coach with his entrepreneurial spirit while also being a father of four, his dedication to providing education and high priority urban settings alongside with that entrepreneurial spirit shapes his multifaceted approach to making an impact. And I hear that he also loves pickleball. So we’ll figure that out.

Tony Bisceglia
Tony, thank you so much for being on the show today. Sam, thanks for having me. That’s a great introduction. I appreciate it. You know what? Always great speaking with you. Remember when you were here last year motivating our student population, they loved you. You’re a massive hit, motivator, mentor, role model. So love talking to you whenever I can.

Sam Demma
Please take a moment, introduce yourself and let the educator listening, let them know a little bit about who you are and why you got into education.

Tony Bisceglia
Yeah, so I think you hit the nail on the head in the intro. I’m a multifaceted individual. I definitely consider myself an educator, but it’s not my only role. Being a father for me is for sure the most important role that I hold or the most important title that I have.

Tony Bisceglia
And then beyond that, being a teacher, principal, educator, coach, sports enthusiast, entrepreneur, it all sort of meshes in together. So it’s a fabric and you know any good fabric when it’s woven neatly and tightly together usually produces something really good. And I think you know over the years over my 30 years of being an educator next year will be my 30th year. I can’t believe the time flies that fast, but it’ll be 30 years. I’ve experienced a lot and there’s been a lot of changes in the world, obviously. I think, you know, a lot of markers that for me and my life in the world, you know, COVID being one of them, and you know, the world definitely changed post and pre-COVID or different times. So, yeah, I think I’m a multifaceted individual and my main goal in life is probably to leave an impact. And as I get older, I wanna make sure there’s a legacy.

Tony Bisceglia
I wanna make sure that I leave a mark and I wanna make sure that I leave the world a better place than when I got here. And that’s the goal each and every day.

Sam Demma
You know, it takes a lot of effort and intention and energy to do one thing well, and you’re doing multiple things well. Where does that passion come from? Where does that drive come from? Tell me more about your a little bit about your upbringing.

Tony Bisceglia
Yeah, so you know what people people ask me that all the time. They’re like, how do you do it? And you know what, I am a high energy individual. I can’t sit still. I’m not the type of person to, you know, a lot of people say, hey, what’d you do this weekend? It was snowing outside and people are sitting on the couch and that’s not me. I just, I can’t sit still. or something that I grew up with. I think I had role models who were high achievers. My older brother, who’s six years older than me, was definitely a high achiever and a busybody. My dad, who was an entrepreneur, was definitely a high achiever and a busybody. He would never let us rest on weekends. We always had to be doing some kind of work, whether we went to work with him or work around the house.

Tony Bisceglia
But there always had to be, um, you know, something getting done, right. So we couldn’t be relaxing. I don’t know if it’s an immigrant mindset because obviously my dad immigrated with my mom from Italy and they had that, you know, we’ve got to make it in this new country mindset and that gets passed down. Um, so I definitely feel that I have that immigrant mindset that you want to achieve, that you want to do better.

Tony Bisceglia
You want to make your parents proud. You want them to know that, you know, all the effort that they made for us, their children, was worth it in the end. So I think that’s where it comes from. I think it comes from having really good role models in my family. And then my grandfather, who was a military, you know, almost a career military guy, he spent seven years in Africa during the Second World War. He traveled, he was really, he was well-read. He met, you know, icons of history and, you know, would retell these stories of meeting, you know, world leaders, you know, good and bad, you know, Benito Mussolini, who was the fascist leader of Italy, meeting him, meeting some British generals in Somalia, meeting Libyan generals, just pretty amazing stories. It’s a history book.

Tony Bisceglia
I’d hear those stories all the time, so they were pretty inspiring. That’s where I think I get my drive from.

Sam Demma
At what age did you venture into entrepreneurial pursuits?

Tony Bisceglia
So I think it was, you know, pretty much all my life from whenever I can remember, I actually remember selling a, this is before your time, but you probably know who he is, Hulk Hogan, who was a big wrestling guy. I would sell t-shirts. So I would go to a local mall. I lived at, at a Jane and Wilson I go to Sheridan mall and I’d get t-shirts printed of Hulk Hogan and they say like Hulkamania and all this type of stuff and I’d buy cheap t-shirts at a place called by way get the shirts printed with the Hulkamania and Hulk Hogan logo and I’d go to school and sell them in the schoolyard. So and I was pretty sure I was in grade five, grade four or five doing that. And I don’t know where that idea came from, but I specifically remember doing that. And I think that was the start of my entrepreneurial journey.

Tony Bisceglia
And I’ve had a million businesses since landscaping, restaurants, sports camps, day trading, you name it. I think I’ve done it. Good and bad because I had a lot of failures, but those early failures was really my education in entrepreneurship.

Tony Bisceglia
It was a school of hard knocks. Nothing like losing money to teach you a lesson. And I lost my money in the early days and I’m thankful for that. And I learned, I learned a lot of valuable lessons by losing that money. And that was my education in entrepreneurship. Then I got some formal education too.

Tony Bisceglia
I got a master’s degree in leadership and supervision. And I’ve got other courses, business courses from universities, Queens, Western. But I would say that the real experience that I gained is in operating businesses operating businesses and just, you know, hitting, hit the ground running, uh, good or bad, losing money. And that’s where I learned to be a good entrepreneur.

Sam Demma
It’s one of our backs against the wall where we learn the most. I think, you know, you succeed, you, you continue forward without reflection. You have a challenge or a failure. You, you pause and ponder. And sometimes those situations are even more helpful than a win because you change nothing. And it sounds like you’ve had a fair share. And within business, you’re operating with lots of other people. You’re building relationships. And that really ties into your work as an administrator at a school. You’re managing a team of staff. You’re interacting with students all day.

Sam Demma
When it comes to managing others, humans are so complex. We have our own, we all have our own diverse set of needs and how we like to be communicated to. What are some of your philosophies or ideas around leadership that help you work with and manage other people effectively? What do you keep at the front of your mind when you’re dealing with people? Well, I’m sort of the opposite.

Tony Bisceglia
I buck the trend on what a leader should be, because the modern leader is like a collegial leader who wants everyone’s input. And I got to be honest with you, if you want to run a really good organization or a large organization or a business, a school, anything, the leader has to have a clear vision and it has to be a determined vision and that means you’ve got to go with what you believe in and you’re not always going to be able to take other people’s input. You’re not always going to be able to sit down at a table and say, hey let me hear everybody out. If you want things to work and you want to get things done in a timely fashion, you have to almost be a militant type leader and I’m not saying you’ve got to be a bad person and treat people badly because I don’t believe in that.

Tony Bisceglia
I believe you treat everyone fairly, but if a person is, is not going to pull up their socks and do what you need them to do, those people should not be part of your organization. And it doesn’t matter what kind of organization it is, whether it’s a business, whether it’s a government institution, you need people to be on the same page and who are willing to go down the river with you, right? Willing to fight battles with you and they need to believe in that leader and the leader leads the charge from the front.

Tony Bisceglia
And if you don’t have a leader who’s willing to put everything on the line and say, hey, here’s the vision, I’m going to lead us into this battle and we’re going to win this battle. If you don’t have a person like that leading the organization, this is where you see a lot of failure, especially mature type businesses or organizations. So for me, it’s it’s you know, you’re either getting on board or you’re getting off the ship. It’s one of the two. And like I said, I think, you know, in today’s world, there’s a lot of niceties and we’re trying to sort of appease everyone. We’re trying to make everyone happy and it just doesn’t work, unfortunately, if you want to be successful. Now, if you want to be mediocre, that’s a different story. And we see a lot of mediocre schools, a lot of mediocre businesses, a lot of mediocre individuals, because those are people who are willing to settle and not really drive their dreams. You know, like, look at you, what you’ve done. It’s incredible.

Tony Bisceglia
Your story, right, from getting injured as a soccer player and now being, you know, this internationally recognized speaker all over the world, traveling to Africa. It’s pretty incredible for a young person like you, but you have to believe in yourself to do that. I’m sure you had a lot of naysayers, but if you weren’t steadfast and headstrong, that you were going to achieve what you’ve achieved and you were confident in your own abilities, you never would have been where you are today on this platform. Kudos to you for doing that because I honestly do not see a lot of young people being the type of risk takers that you are and what you’ve done. So I admire everything you’ve done. So keep it up.

Sam Demma
I appreciate it. Big time. Talking about niceties. One of my favorite lecturers and speakers is a gentleman named Jim Rohn. And he said, everyone talks about affirmations, but they only work if you affirm the truth. He said, if you’re, if you’re broke, you should wake up every single day, look in the mirror and say, I’m broke. And, you know, and, and if you, if you face reality, there’s an opportunity for you to change. And, and he would always say, you know, show me your list of reasons why things aren’t working out. And most of the time people don’t include themselves on that list. And that’s one of the major issues, you know, the things in the world don’t change unless we change. And it’s, it’s a hard pill to swallow, but if we want to make a shift in some area of our life, it has to come back to ourselves and our choices and our actions. Um, I have a little team now, four or five people. And I found that if someone’s not, you know, tightly tied into the vision that I’ve shared with them, it’s really hard to motivate them and get them excited to work, you know, and they gotta go and we’ll find another person. Speaking of mediocre versus high performing, your school is one of the high performance athletic schools, one of the only, or the only only in the Toronto Catholic District School Board.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about what that means and how it’s had an impact on the school population, enrollment, and even students’ excitement.

Tony Bisceglia
So it’s been an incredible adventure. It’s something that I wanted to do for a really long time, having, you know, four kids involved in pretty high level sports. I’ve always tried to find a space for them that was a high performance academic athletic institution. So I would look at examples around the world that have succeeded like IMG Academy in Florida, you know, Bill Crothers up in York region, who have taken student athletes and really nurtured them to be the very best they can be to make sure that they excel in whatever it is that they’re doing, whether it’s sports or academics, and that we graduate individuals who are more than just competent. They’re high achievers in their sports and in their academics, and they on to get you know D1 scholarships, D2 scholarships, maybe play professional right out of high school but basically we nurture those high achievers and I think you know there’s a place for everybody in the world not everyone needs to be a high performance athlete and we have programs for those kids and I think everyone has different interests but for me having a serious interest in sports, it appealed to me to create that kind of environment because I didn’t see it in Canada. I didn’t see many of them in Canada anyways. I would say Bill Crothers in York region was really the model for most of the rest of us high performance schools in the GTA. So kudos to them for having that vision and getting that off the GTA. So kudos to them for having that vision and getting that off the ground. But in Toronto Catholic, we are the first high performance athletic high school, and we focus on basketball, soccer, volleyball, and every year we’re expanding into other areas of sport. But our main goal is the student athletes, student being the primary focus, athlete being secondary. But knowing that high performance athletes may train up to 20 hours a week, we’ve got to make some accommodations, we’ve got to adapt some things for those kids.

Tony Bisceglia
We’ve got to support them to be the best student athletes that they can be. Because you can’t be an Olympian, you can’t be a professional athlete, you can’t go to D1 without support, with some support from your high school and from your high school teachers.

Tony Bisceglia
And teachers got to buy into that. And that’s the culture we’re trying to build here. We’re trying to really focus in on the kids from this community, particularly the Jane and Finch community. We’re taking kids who may have raw athletic ability and we’re trying to refine those skills and make them the best student athletes that they can be. And, you know, student being very important, they’ve got to maintain a 70% average. And the program has been a real hit. It’s been a success. Our enrollment has gone up 35% since we introduced this program. So the school is, is exploding.

Tony Bisceglia
It’s, it’s, you know, bursting at the seams. Because we place a real emphasis on each individual student and what their individual needs are. And the communities recognize that. And it’s been successful because we have a caring, nurturing culture in this school.

Tony Bisceglia
And that’s what separates us from other schools. Not to say that other schools don’t care about their kids, but we take it a step above. We’re taking it to the next level. And we’re trying to make contacts for these kids in universities, in post-secondary, with pro teams like TFC.

Tony Bisceglia
We have a student who’s on the under-17 national team soccer, Elijah Roche, and he’s a fantastic defender, one of Canada’s top defenders, and I guarantee you’ll see him playing internationally soon with a big club. So we have students like that real high achievers, and we support and nurture them to be the best they can be. I kind of wish I was able to attend the school during the program when I was a high school student. Right? It sounds like a place because you are a high performance athlete. But I think in those days, you know, we weren’t focusing on nurturing and supporting student athletes the way that we are today. You know, and I think, you know, that kids today have a real advantage if they’re in a program like ours. If their real dream is to play D1 football, then this is the place for them because we’re going to support them in that dream. We have an academic coordinator that meets with them every single week to focus in on their academics, to make sure that they’re doing well. And if there’s an issue, that academic coordinator is on the phone with a parent, a coach saying, hey, we’ve got to do something here. There’s an issue. So, you know, we tackle issues before they become bigger issues. So, to your point, if you would have had a program like this, you’re successful already, but who knows what could have been. And then you had an injury, and we support kids through that too, because that’s a reality of playing sports, right? That injury comes with another impact, the psychological impact, and we support them with social workers and CYWs, child and youth workers, to get them through those tough times. So yeah, really good program.

Sam Demma
It sounds like it. And I’m glad to hear it’s having a very positive impact on the community. The focus on the student athlete and the academics not slipping or sliding is so important as well. My, my parents really drilled that into my mind when I was a young kid, Sam, you got to make sure that you, whatever your hands touch, you do the best with it that you possibly can. If that means doing your homework, do the homework the best way you can. You touch the soccer cleats on the field, play the sport the best you can. And I’ve kind of carried that mentality through my life.

Sam Demma
And it’s helped me because yes, certain things are more important than others, but everything matters and the way we do one thing is going to seep into all the other things that we do. So not allowing those other aspects of life to slip is really helpful, you know, especially for young people that are focused on sports 24 seven. I’m curious when you think about building relationships with students, you know, a lot of educators want to build solid relationships with their students and lot of educators wanna build solid relationships with their students and as they do, the student is more engaged in class and paying more attention. How do you think you build a connection with a young person?

Tony Bisceglia
So I think it’s gotta be authentic. And I think for me, the way I built connections when I was in high school was by playing sports. So being on the soccer team, being on the football team. Just for me, the after school activities were as important, if not more important. I would say for me, they were more important than being in class.

Tony Bisceglia
Classes is important, but traditionally speaking, you know, most successful people in the world, and there’s data to support this research, weren’t A plus students. They weren’t the kids who had a 95% average. They were like C, C plus students, B students maybe.

Tony Bisceglia
But they were kids who were well-rounded, who played sports, who had other activities in their life. So I think teachers really need to go back to and focus on, because this is what’s lacking in education today. I think when really need to go back to and focus on, because this is what’s lacking in education today. I think when I was in school, I had teachers who taught because they actually loved teaching or coaching. My teachers were coaches, they were ex-CFL guys. And they wanted us to excel in sports, but they hammered us in the classroom. They made sure we were on top of everything. But they said, hey, you’re gonna be a practice today practices at four Don’t be late or you’re gonna be running for an hour and we respected that today that’s lacking and for whatever reason and I don’t know if it’s you know, again, I don’t want to blame social media for stuff You know, he was to Gary Vanner Chuck. He says, it’s not social media that’s the problem, right? And I don’t think it is. I just think, I think the world has changed, but coaches have changed too. Coaches can’t be as hard as they were on athletes because mom and dad’s gonna come to their rescue.

Tony Bisceglia
Like every little thing a coach does is questioned now. And for me, and I’m a parent of a bunch of athletes, of my kids, when my kids are playing, I don’t get involved. The coach can say whatever they want. Whatever the coach does, obviously, I’m trusting that coach to be a good leader, to be a good mentor, to be a good coach, to speak with them with authority and maybe firmness even.

Tony Bisceglia
But I’ve got to trust that coach, otherwise I shouldn’t be there. I can’t be second guessing everything the coach does, the lineup, the strategy, the tactic. I can’t be questioning that. Otherwise I shouldn’t be there. But in today’s world, every parent is a former athlete. Everyone says, I played, I played in high school.

Tony Bisceglia
You know, we’ve got coaches who actually played pro, who maybe played in Europe, who played in the MLS, or wherever they played, right? So you’ve got to trust those people. If you’ve enrolled your kids in that program, it must be for a reason. You like the program, you like the club, you like the coaches, and then all of a sudden, you know, you register, you get on the field and you start yelling at coaches, or like right after a match, you know, this is why a lot of people don’t coach anymore, especially in high schools. We don’t have enough teachers coaching because of the grief, right? The, you know, parents might give them or the other kids might give them. So like we got to get back to, and I don’t want to say get back to the basics, but I mean, the, the relationship that a coach and a student has a student athlete is very different than the relationship, a geography teacher in a student has very different. And you can’t build that same relationship in a classroom, especially in a traditional classroom, you know, a Socratic type of classroom where a teacher’s giving you information, spewing out facts, and you’re just absorbing it. There’s nothing stimulating about that. You know, whereas on the field, I feel like, you know, there’s stimulation between the interaction with the coach, the team, especially in team sports.

Sam Demma
I can speak from personal experience. I built some of my closest relationships with coaches or with extracurricular activities where they were there to push and guide and support and provide feedback that I was very excited to receive because I wanted to improve. And unless I was very interested in the subject and really wanted to excel at it, I found a lesser connection to the staff member or teacher that was in the room, and some of the teachers that had the biggest impact on me just really took a interest in me as an individual and, and got to know what my life was like outside of the classroom. And I think that made all the difference for me too.

Tony Bisceglia
I agree, you know, because you feel that, Hey, that teacher wants to know about me, not just as a student, not just the facts that I memorized that teacher wants to know about me, not just as a student, not just the facts that I memorized. That teacher wants to know who I am as a person. What do I, what do I like? What are my interests? What do I want to do in the future?

Tony Bisceglia
And if you know, someone cares about you that way, you’re going to reciprocate. You’re going to give back.

Sam Demma
You’re going to give that effort on the field, this has been a very stimulating conversation. I appreciate your time and your insights and the ideas. It’s lovely to hear about the success of the high performance athletic program at the school. Keep up the amazing work. I look forward to seeing Elijah Roche playing nationally or internationally and the rest of the athletes to see them succeed in school life and their own set of goals. So you’re doing a great job. Keep up the amazing work and we’ll cross paths again soon.

Tony Bisceglia
Thanks. And same to you. Keep inspiring the young people all over the world. Now, all the things you’re doing everywhere, Africa, the U S Canada, just keep it up, man.

Sam Demma
Thank you very much.  

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tony Bisceglia

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 15, 2025 by Educator Principals 0

Jacqueline Butler — Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School

Jacqueline Butler — Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School
About Jacqueline Butler

Meet Jacqueline Butler—an educator, leader, and lifelong learner who’s passionate about redefining what school can be. As the Deputy Head of Student Life and Wellbeing at Holy Trinity School in Richmond Hill, Canada, Jacqueline has spent the past 22 years fostering a learning environment that connects students with their passions, their well-being, and the world around them.

Her journey has taken her from the science lab to the gymnasium, always with a focus on creating meaningful, human-centred learning experiences. Right now, she’s working on integrating student life with academics, helping students develop the skills and mindsets they need to be changemakers in an ever-evolving world. She believes that in a world where humans are increasingly falling out of relationship with each other and the natural world, school needs to be a place that is based in community, where students discover, connect, grow, and take risks—without fear of judgment.

When she’s not thinking about the future of education, you can find Jacqueline hiking, skiing, or taking in a peaceful waterfront view with her husband, son and daughter. A former Queen’s University basketball player, she still finds joy in coaching, with a focus on teamwork, and inspiring young athletes to commit to something bigger than themselves.

Connect with Jacqueline Butler: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Holy Trinity School

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Jacqueline Butler. As deputy head of student life and well being at Holy Trinity School in Richmond Hill, Jacqueline has dedicated 22 years to reimagining education through a human centered lens. Her journey from science teacher to educational leader reflects her commitment to creating learning environments where students can discover their passions, develop as change makers, and build meaningful connections with their community and the natural world.

Sam Demma
A former Queens University basketball player turned coach, and she’s still got moves y’all, Jacqueline brings her passion for teamwork and personal growth to every aspect of her work while balancing her professional dedication with family, time spent hiking, skiing, and enjoying waterfront views with her husband and children. Jacqueline, it is a privilege and pleasure to have you on the show here today. Thank you so much for being here.

Jacqueline Butler
Thank you for having me. I was listening to some past episodes and you keep very good company, so I’m very honored to have been asked and to be here, spend time with you, Sam.

Sam Demma
I can’t wait to dive in. Can you please start by introducing yourself and just sharing a little bit about why you got into education?

Jacqueline Butler
So, so yeah, so I have been, um, a for, that’s been my whole career. And I graduated from university and took an adventure overseas to London and England to do some teaching over there, and then made my way back over to HTS and I’ve been here ever since.

Jacqueline Butler
So a really, really long time, had an early adventure, but I know a lot of people, you know, move around in their career, but I have found a place that I feel like I really belong and that I love so much. And so that’s me and kind of my little story, but I got into teaching really because I wasn’t ready to grow up yet. That’s how it started actually. And that I, all the things that I loved doing, in my youth, I felt like I could continue to do those things as an educator, and a sort of positive role model for for other young people. So, you know, I come to work every day, and I still get to sing out loud in chapel. I still get to play in the gym, whether I’m teaching or coaching. I still get to go on trips. I still get to do all of the things that I used to love to do as a kid, except just in a different role as the adult in the room now. So that’s how I got started in education.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about what brought you overseas at the start of your career.

Jacqueline Butler
So I was a student obviously in Teachers College and there were schools coming over to Queens to do some interviews. They’re doing their recruiting and I knew I was going to be in the workforce coming up really soon. And so I thought I better get some practice. So I signed up for these interviews because I’d never had a professional interview yet. And I thought this would be a great idea. So I went and sat down

Jacqueline Butler
and had some really amazing conversations with some other educators from around the world. And I never once considered that, you know a job offer would be on the table, but sure enough, it was. And then all of a sudden it was just, why not? So I really never had a plan to do it, but when the opportunity was presented to me, I didn’t have a reason not to do it. So off I went.

Sam Demma
That’s awesome. Some of my favorite memories are from my own childhood experience of traveling to Italy for six months. And I think that earlier in any career, it’s such a valuable experience to gather different perspectives from different communities around the globe. It helps shift our perspectives and have more of a holistic view on things. You’ve been in education now, you know, 22 years.

Sam Demma
How has your vision of what school can be? How has that evolved? Oh, yeah, how’s that evolved over the years?

Jacqueline Butler
Well, it’s interesting, I’ve been in the game a little bit longer than that, actually, not that I want to date myself, but it’s just I’ve been at HTS for 22 years. But I think that when I was younger, I felt very much like I needed to stick to the script, right? Like I was very much focused on the curriculum standards and ticking the boxes and getting done what I needed to get done. And as I’ve grown and matured and become more in tune with what my students need or the students need. I’ve been able to focus on them more as people and individuals and young growing minds and souls and spirits to be able to actually meet them where they are as opposed to like having a set goal in mind. So for me, that has been the major shift in terms of, yes, just maybe taking the curriculum standards a little more seriously when you were younger and growing into a more holistic educator that’s really, really concerned with the whole child, which can take you down many different paths, oftentimes a different path, many different times in the same day. And being the whole child being the center of what education is and what it can be, as opposed to a set path.

Sam Demma
How do you build a connection with a student to the point where you really truly understand their needs? Sometimes it feels like certain educators connect really well with their students and others want to, but struggle to do so. What do you think some of the principles are to build those connections?

Jacqueline Butler
I think that there’s probably many different answers to that question because there’s, you know, many different personalities, many different connection points for different students and the other adults in the room. But for myself personally, I always connect back to the why. Like, you know, why am I in this? Why am I doing this? And the answer is always the same. The answer is always I’m doing this for them. So if that’s in fact the case, then I can’t really get too far down the road unless I know them. So it’s about the relationship building. It’s about the questions that you’re asking.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s about caring enough to know what matters, what matters to each individual person, understanding their goals, understanding their challenges. And the really, really, really important piece, I think, is finding a way to get each student to know themself first. And taking that coaching stance in terms of helping each individual learn who they are,

Jacqueline Butler
what makes them tick, not what they wanna be when they grow up, but what they want to spend their life doing.

Sam Demma
It makes me think of some educators I’ve had that really got to know me on a personal level and understand what I was passionate about outside of their classrooms, to the point where they would teach a lesson and at the end of the lesson say,

Sam Demma
Sam, for you, this means X, And Jacqueline, for you and your passions, this lesson means X. And it just felt so personalized, despite the fact that there was another 30 students in the class. And I’ll never really forget those specific moments.

Sam Demma
Sometimes young people put a lot of pressure on themselves with so many different expectations and goals and dreams and things going on in the world. How do you think we balance that healthy ambition in a student with the challenge of them putting so much pressure on themselves these days?

Jacqueline Butler
There is a lot of pressure. It might be a cop-out, but my answer is a little bit the same. It’s just in the sense that until you really know and understand yourself, you could be tempted to be trying to do a whole bunch of different things for different people or different things for different outcomes that don’t necessarily connect with your own personal passions and your own personal you know desires and on top of that if you don’t really know yourself yet it’s really hard to know where you want to go. So in that in that sense I think it’s it’s just super important that

Jacqueline Butler
students are staying true to themselves, that they’re doing the hard work, the self-reflection, the self-awareness, they’re focused on what it means to be a good human, a good citizen of the world, and then you layer in, you know, your interests and your passions and maybe a way to make money somehow in there along the way. But staying true to yourself, I think is the key to that because then you can sort of cut the noise out, right?

Jacqueline Butler
And not have to feel like you have to be everything to everybody at the same time.

Sam Demma
One of the things you’re helping students be at HTS is change makers. Can you tell us a little bit more about what it means to be a change maker and how we foster those characteristics and skills in, in students?

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah, I think, um, in one context, a changemaker connects directly with the word impact. And if you’re able to make an impact, and that impact can be at the local level, you know, maybe in your own class, or your own school, or you can extend that impact out to the community, you can go further, and, you know, into a different country or whatever the case may be. But I think to be a changemaker means that you’ve identified an issue,

Jacqueline Butler
that you’ve learned and understood the issue, that you’ve created empathy for the people that are being affected by the issue. And then you have dedicated your time, effort and energy to find out what the need actually is not what you think the need is, but but what the need actually is. And then you put a plan in place to make a change or make a difference.

Jacqueline Butler
So I think finding opportunities and experiences that give students the skills to be able to take those steps is what it means to be a changemaker because it can be in any field, in any place. There’s no limit to what it means to be a changemaker.

Sam Demma
One of the things I noticed at HTS, every student says hello, waves, smile on their face, looking for opportunities to help each other, eat lunch with each other. Tell me more about how the school staff is intentional about building that culture of inclusion and belonging and kindness and respect and how another school may borrow some of those ideas to try and build

Jacqueline Butler
that culture within their community. So I feel like we have a really strong community at HTS and I at the same time, I’m comfortable saying that we’re on a journey and we have some growth to do in that area as well. I think we do place a lot of value on the concept of belonging. I think we we put the right vocabulary in place and we create opportunities to come together in community, which obviously fosters those relationships. And this may be a little off topic, but I think one of the biggest challenges

Jacqueline Butler
that everybody’s facing right now is that people are falling out of relationship with themselves, they’re falling out of relationship with other people and they’re falling out of relationship with the earth. And there’s a lot happening out there in the world that makes it easy for that to happen. And so I think our jobs in a school like HTS where we really do value that community and those connections and those relationships is that you have to be very intentional. Now, more I think than ever before in teaching those skills, like there’s skills connected to it. And I think, you know, for a long time, you kind of gloss over that these

Jacqueline Butler
things are happening and people are showing the signs and symptoms of belongingness and togetherness. But if we don’t focus on being intentional in terms of what we talk about, how we talk, bringing people such as yourself into our community to speak about what it means to show up in a relationship and be a positive member of a relationship, then I think we miss opportunities to really like instill those values and skills.

Sam Demma
Tell me more about the falling out of relationship with the world, the natural world. I would love to dive into that for a moment.

Jacqueline Butler
Oh man, I wish I had the answer, like, you know, this is an area for myself that, you know, causes me a little bit of internal discomfort or stress. So I think in my in my learnings and readings, as they call it the the meta crisis,

Jacqueline Butler
right, the breakdown of the interconnectedness of global systems, you know, with technology, science, information, the environment, economics, psychology, culture, politics, all these things. It’s very complicated, like it’s beyond my sort of scope of obviously fully understanding, but I can tell you that I can definitely feel it.

Jacqueline Butler
So I mean, some professional communities that I’m a part of, finding pockets of people who notice this falling out of relationship, who are open to talk about it, and who feel strongly about doing something about it, I think that’s kind of where I find a little bit of inner peace around it. But it is a major challenge that our young people have to confront, come face to face with, because, yeah, things are changing, things are different. And again, that’s why the role of us as educators is so critical.

Jacqueline Butler
Because what are we doing? What skills are we instilling? What things are we teaching and talking about that will prepare young people to be able to deal with, you know, these changes, the potential chaos, collapse, whatever you want to call it. So like, we have a really, really big, important role to play in all of this. And so, you know, I think specifically at HTS, we are really working hard to

Jacqueline Butler
potentially disrupt the way education looks and the way that we interact with our students, moving towards more of a mentorship model with our students so that they have that close relationship and we’re building in the skills in a set kind of plan, a set plan that meets the students where they are and gives them the skills that they need to be able to meet these challenges in the future.

Sam Demma
Like skill-based learning versus subject-based learning.

Jacqueline Butler
Yes, or learning the skills through a subject and being more interdisciplinary and having learning experiences with people that are not all the same age as you, you know, that are not all talking about the same subject at the same time, but really having opportunities

Jacqueline Butler
with internships and capstones and all of the different projects and programs that we’re exploring here at HDS, but to create a more like holistic, human-centered version of education that breaks down the silos and creates learning opportunities that are more authentic to us as a human being. Again, we

Jacqueline Butler
kind of school… It’s not natural in the sense of if you think of experiences where you’ve had your most authentic learning, you probably weren’t, everybody that you were with wasn’t the same age as you talking about the exact same topic as you in a room. It probably didn’t feel like that. So, how can we recreate learning opportunities that really feel more authentic to what it means to have positive learning out in the

Jacqueline Butler
world.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah.

Sam Demma
What other things would you re-imagine in a school, you know, if you could disrupt education as a whole? Are there other things that you think would be places you’d start? Yeah, I’m curious what other things you think should, could be disrupted in the next couple of years and kind of need to be in some ways.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah. Again, it’s a, it’s who can predict it, right? Like who can predict exactly what’s going to happen. But, um, you know, we know that technology is a game changer. We know that we can use it for good and we can use it for bad. But I think we have to separate ourselves from the concept of the four walls, right, of a building that if the pandemic taught us anything, it’s able to send students out into the world to do their internships to do their projects and, you know, be able to get their credits while doing other things at the same time. these constructs that we think must be true in order to, I’m using air quotes here, I know we’re an audio only, but to do school.

Jacqueline Butler
So yeah, that we need to kind of just look beyond what we’ve come to expect or accept as what school is.

Sam Demma
When you think of your own educational experience, can you identify a few mentors or caring adults that had a big impact on you? And if so, what did those specific individuals do for you that made all the difference?

Jacqueline Butler
So therein lies the lesson, right? So here I am talking about how, you know, the constructs of school maybe don’t serve us as human beings, but at the end of the day, I have had amazing experiences in school, just the way that it is now. And the interesting thing is because of the relationships. So that will never change, right?

Jacqueline Butler
You mentioned it as well. The power of the relationships with you that you have with other people is like the number one indicator of happiness.

Jacqueline Butler
Right?

Jacqueline Butler
The more positive relationships you have in your life, the happier you’re going to be. Even when there’s crap. You know what I mean? Like even when things are rough, if you have positive relationships and the same is true with school,

Jacqueline Butler
like if you have those positive relationships around you, you can still accomplish all these wonderful things. So, for me personally, I had coaches in high school, I had coaches in high school, I had coaches in university. The difference for me was that it was about me. Like they wanted to know what my goals were.

Jacqueline Butler
What do you want to accomplish? What matters to you? What’s challenging you these days? How can I be helpful? So to me, again, just having that personalized connection with somebody who has your best interest at heart

Jacqueline Butler
is a difference maker in terms of how you’re gonna be successful. So if you know that somebody is caring about you, if you know if somebody knows what your goals are and where you wanna be and is there to support you and guide you, you have that person that you can go to

Jacqueline Butler
that you can ask the questions. I think that’s what makes the big difference, yeah.

Sam Demma
You mentioned coaches and I know that athletics have played a large part of your entire life. How has your background in athletics and coaching influenced your approach to educational leadership and student development?

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah, it’s really about the people working towards a common goal.

Jacqueline Butler
Yeah. It’s about the people working towards a common goal.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s about putting others ahead of self. It’s about, you know, you have to practice as hard as you want to play, right? So, you know, what do you, what do you, right? What are you doing when you’re not in the big game to enable you to deserve to win the big game is really important.

Jacqueline Butler
It’s a little off topic, but I saw something recently that I really loved and it’s so simple. The person’s name is Dr. Becky. Now, I’m sure she has a last name, but it wasn’t shared. She’s from Duke.

Jacqueline Butler
She’s from Duke. And her concept of the difference or the space between not knowing something and knowing something, right? Being pure frustration, right? The difference between when you don’t know something

Jacqueline Butler
and you do something is filled with frustration. It’s uncomfortable, it’s hard. And then you get to the point of where you know it and you have this huge sense of accomplishment. So it’s the same with sport, right? You’re not doing well and then you are doing well.

Jacqueline Butler
What happened in between? That’s the magic, right? And the skill that we need to put in place, whether it be athletics or education, is this concept that she calls frustration tolerance. And I thought, oh my goodness, like that is so simple, yet so amazing. So if we can, you know, help young people or old people, any, any to stay to the course through the frustration. The more that we can practice frustration tolerance, the more successful we will be

Jacqueline Butler
in terms of reaching our goals and getting to where we want to be when the going gets tough. So I think whether you’re talking about athletics, whether you’re talking about, you know, academics or education, how can you stay the course? How can you stick with something when you know it’s hard? Some people call it resilience, some people call it grit,

Jacqueline Butler
but the real skill of it is how do you live in that uncomfortable space between not knowing something and knowing something and have the skill to be tolerant through frustration?

Sam Demma
I think it’s such a cool way to look at growth. One of my friends always said, Sam, I hope you find something to struggle well on. It made me think of that. Life is about choosing things worth struggling for. And then it’s how much can we struggle? How frustrated can we, how much can we tolerate before we make a decision to try something else or keep moving forward? So I love that idea. And Dr. Becky from Duke, last name that we don’t know, we appreciate you.

Jacqueline Butler
We appreciate you. I loved it.

Sam Demma
This has been such a lovely conversation about what it means to build a relationship with a young person. Some of your insights that you’ve pulled from athletics and coaching and how, you know, how has you like looking through a lens in education, the importance of building community and some of the disruptions that may happen in education in the future.

Sam Demma
And that relationships are still at the center of all the work that we do in a school building and how important those are. I really appreciate your time and the work that you’re doing at HTS. I hope it continues for a very long time. Keep up the amazing work. You’re helping lots of young people and I look forward to crossing paths again soon.

Jacqueline Butler
Thank you, Sam. It’s been a pleasure.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Jacqueline Butler

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

May 1, 2025 by Educator Student Leadership Student Success Student-Centered Leadership Wellness Coordinator 0

Brandi Kelly – Superintendent at Mt. Olive School District

Brandi Kelly – Superintendent at Mt. Olive School District
About Brandi Kelly

Dr. Brandi Kelly is an accomplished author, speaker, podcaster, coach, and consultant with a passion for building thriving organizational culture. With over 20 years of experience, Dr. Kelly is dedicated to empowering leaders to inspire growth, create positive change, and cultivate environments where success thrives.

As a Superintendent, Dr. Kelly has received numerous accolades for her leadership, including the NAESP Distinguished Elementary School Principal Award and the Middle School Principal of the Year Award. She is also a Licensed Clinical Social Worker and a Maxwell Certified Coach. Recently, she was honored as a Marquis Who’s Who Honored Listee, a testament to her impact in education and leadership.

Dr. Kelly’s mission is simple yet powerful: to spark hope in every individual and organization she works with. By fostering strong leadership, creating supportive cultures, and encouraging hope-driven success, Dr. Kelly helps others reach their fullest potential.

Connect with Brandi Kelly: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Mt. Olive School District

Spark HOPE Edu LLC

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma. And today we are joined by a friend, a colleague, and a soon to be author. I’m so excited to read her book. Her name is Brandi Kelly. Brandi, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show here today.

Brandi Kelly
I’m honored to be here. Thank you, Sam, for having me.

Sam Demma
One of the highlights of my trip to Mount Olive was sitting and eating lunch with you. I loved hearing about your life story, some of your reflections on past experiences, and just some of the advice that you shared with me that day. Can you just for a moment explain to the audience who you are and why you got into education?

Brandi Kelly
Absolutely. Yeah. So I’ve been in education for over 20 years. I started out as a school social worker and then I became a principal and now I’m a superintendent. And you know, my story really began when I was 15 and my brother Brandon drowned. It was a rainy Saturday afternoon and he and my baby brother were riding horses. And Brandon went into that creek on that rainy Saturday and he never came home. It was prom night for me. The next day was Mother’s Day and divers pulled his body out of the creek on Monday afternoon. It changed our family, as you can imagine, forever. And the good news is it didn’t end there. From that tragedy emerged goodness, and the goodness, really the community. The community rallied around our family. We had an amazing community and an even more amazing school community.

Brandi Kelly
Brandon was blessed to go to school with some pretty amazing people. He was that kid, right? As teachers, we’ve all had that kid. He was mischievous. He was a class clown.

Brandi Kelly
He was always getting into trouble, but he had a heart of gold. And his classmates really loved him. And they filled the basement of the church the day of his funeral. They honored him at graduation. They really exemplified what it means to be a community. And that tragedy not only bonded me to that community, but them to each other. And it was a powerful bond. And it’s one that they still share today.

Brandi Kelly
That’s why I got into education. I wanted to give back. I was always drawn to kids kind of like Bub. His nickname was Bub. And I wanted to help those kids. I wanted to help the communities and the families that experienced loss or tragedy or trauma. And so that’s why I became a school social worker, but then I wanted to do more. I felt like I could have a bigger impact. And so that led me into school administration. And so in a nutshell, Sam, that’s who I am.

Sam Demma
There are situations in life that define our path and the situation you went through could have taken your life down a totally different path, yet it’s been a source of hope and optimism now for others and inspiration for others and service for others. You talk about leading with hope on your podcast and it’s a big part of your work. Tell me more about where that idea came from and how you found hope in that challenging situation.

Brandi Kelly
Yeah, I think leading with hope really did come just from my mindset, you know, knowing that bad things happen all the time but we have a choice how we look at those circumstances. And I was the oldest child of three. My youngest brother was with Brandon when he drowned.

Brandi Kelly
And it was just recently that I saw on a television show, a broadcaster talking about post-traumatic stress and post-traumatic growth. And the difference between the two is a choice to heal. There are people that experience that post-traumatic stress and they stay stuck in that. And some of that has to do with the way that affects our brain, but it shows on brain scans that if we have a more optimistic mindset, we choose to heal. And that directs us towards that post-traumatic growth. And as I said, it’s a choice. And I think that early on, I had a very optimistic outlook. That’s always kind of been in my DNA, who I am. And then through the choices I’ve made over time, it’s just strengthened that. And then my educational experiences, I didn’t stop at, you know, a bachelor’s or a master’s. I kept going.

Brandi Kelly
I love to learn. I think that has helped me as well. And I was turned on to really three key constructs, if you will, through my educational studies. One, of course, was Albert Bandura’s social learning theory. He talks about self-efficacy being a conviction that we can make a better way. We can improve the lives of ourselves and others. The other one was Dr. Rick Schneider’s hope theory. He talks about agency, willpower and waypower, pathways and goals, ways that we can make things better. And I really love that. And then finally, as a social worker, Castle’s SEL framework. So they talk about self-awareness and self-management, responsible decision-making, relationship skills, social awareness, all of that in a nutshell kind of goes into Lead with Hope as we are building a system of self-efficacy through the habits that we choose, through an optimistic outlook, through that idea of purpose fueled by passion, but that requires perseverance as well. And then the outcome is excellence. Just that continual process of getting better day after day after day. And it’s just put everything that I know into a book and I am sharing with the world, which is a little bit anxiety provoking, I’m sure. But I’m sharing with the world, the stories, you know, personal stories about myself or my brother personal stories about my mom’s battle with cancer stories about students that I’ve helped and communities that I have been able to serve. And just the powerful sense of belonging that comes from the work that I get to do every day. And hopefully, I’m doing what everybody wants to do. I’m making a difference and helping others to be the best that they can be as well.

Sam Demma
It’s admirable and I’m very excited to read the book. If it’s an extension of our conversations, I know it’s gonna be absolutely amazing. When the book is released, do you know how people will be able to purchase it? I’m not sure exactly when it will be. So I wanna make sure that’s as a part of the episode.

Brandi Kelly
Yeah, absolutely. So it will be available on Amazon. And so once it’s released, if people are following my website, social media, that kind of thing, I’ve got a Lead with Hope Facebook page, and then I can also be found at www.sparkhopeedu.com.

Sam Demma
You mentioned there’ll be stories about you and your brother and also the students you’ve served and supported. When you think about the impact the work has created on the lives of young people, are there any students that come to mind that you think have been transformed during your time in education that may ignite a light in another educator listening to this to remember why

Sam Demma
their work in education is so important? And if it is a serious story, you can change the name if you need to.

Brandi Kelly
And I did in my book to just to protect their privacy. And I hope I don’t get emotional because when you were saying that, Sam, I kind of felt a little bit of emotion well up within me. But the student that I think of a lot is is a girl who I will call Reagan. rough background. Her mom was an addict. She was being raised by her grandmother and she really didn’t have, she didn’t have any hope. She kind of had lost her way. And I started counseling her. That was back when I was a school social worker. And when I first started working with Reagan, she was like, you know, I’ve talked to other counselors. This isn’t going to work. I’m not going to talk to you. You’re just wasting your time. And there’s power in just showing up, continually showing up. And she didn’t talk to me for the first couple of sessions, but I just kept showing up.

Brandi Kelly
And Sam, I don’t know why, but with that kid, maybe it was because she was around my daughter’s age at the time. I’m not sure. But with that kid, she, she was in a lot of rough spots. She went to a mental hospital. She went to a residential home. She was in a lot of different placements. I always made it a point to go visit her. And we are still in touch today. Fast forward about, oh, five to seven years. And this kiddo shows up in my office when I was still a counselor at Effingham Junior High School. And at first I didn’t know who she was. And I had to take a second look. And she came back to visit me. And you know, there’s nothing better than a kid. You know, you’ve made a difference in that kid’s life when that kid comes back, and they visit you. And they tell you about their life and what’s going on. And they just want to keep that connection with you. That’s what it’s all about. It’s about relationships. It’s about connection. And I’m just thankful that she’s been part of my story.

Sam Demma
I think about the difference you’ve made in her life. It’s impossible to measure. You know, I think the most important thing we can give any young person is our belief in them or belief in themselves and that changes every choice a young person makes. And it sounds like because of the time you spent showing up, it shifted the way she thought about herself for what was possible for her and then built a different life.

Brandi Kelly
No, I really hope that that is what happened for her. And watching her family on social media, that’s the one good thing about social media is I can follow as she has become a mother and a wife, and she’s doing some amazing things in the world. At that point in time, I had to hold hope for her, but now through her story, I believe she is holding hope for somebody else and serving, helping others reach their fullest potential too.

Sam Demma
It sounds like showing up is one of the ways to build a connection with a student, to show them that they matter and are appreciated and valued and that there is hope for them. How else do we as educators build connections with young people?

Brandi Kelly
Yeah, I talk about the trauma that class, they call themselves the 95ers now, how that trauma bonds them together. And I don’t know, when you think about walking through a funeral line, a visitation line, I mean, a lot of people feel very awkward and very uncomfortable with that. But part of my story as an educator has been really not only showing up, but also providing resources and support for the kids and the families who have gone through a significant loss. I was looking through some pictures this afternoon and one of those kiddos was at Ramsey grade school whenever I was a principal there. And it was a friend, a daughter of a friend of mine from high school. So it was doubly meaningful for me. But she lost her daughter, my friend lost her daughter. And she had two younger kids that were going to my school at that time. And I got a book for them just a book about what happens after you die. And I gave it to the kids, I sat down and I read with them. And one of those kids, she’s graduating from high school this year. She still talks about that.

Brandi Kelly
And she tells me how meaningful that was, that I took the time. And we don’t think that’s a big thing, Sam, but the time we give them, the resources we give them, tangible tokens that we give them can make a big difference in their life, especially when they’re suffering.

Sam Demma
And when it comes from somebody who they don’t expect to consistently show up, right? Not that we don’t expect our educators or teachers to show up, but sometimes we don’t expect them to go above and beyond outside of the class hours or outside of their professional responsibilities to make those things matter to them. I just think about some of the teachers who had a massive impact on me growing up, and they gave their time and they gave their presence when they could have placed it anywhere else. I think that’s really the biggest reason I looked up to some of the educators that had a difference in my life. It created a lot of hope for me. When you were growing up, can you think of educators that did the same for you?

Brandi Kelly
Yeah, yeah. And I write about this in my book. One of them is Mr. Kingery. He was my English teacher. And both of my parents dropped out of high school. Neither of them graduated from high school. So Mr. Kingery, whenever I was going through high school, I really didn’t think about what was after high school until probably my senior year. But of course, he did. He absolutely did. And so he fostered a love of words, a love of learning, a love of just researching and being a better human being. And for me, Mr. Kingery was that person that made going on to college seemed to be a possibility for me. And then interestingly enough, the one that solidified it for me, and I won’t mention a name for this one. It’s a positive story, but it kind of came about in a negative way. So when I was a senior in high school, my high school sweetheart, who is now my husband, proposed to me. And I got married very young. My husband and I got married very young. And this teacher told me, Brandi, if you get married, you will never make anything of yourself. Challenge accepted. Probably why I got my doctorate degree because that voice in the back of my mind and the love of learning, of course, but she really solidified my desire to continue and to make a difference. And so the two of them together, one positive, one more negative, have really solidified who I am and why I show up, because it’s important. It’s important to continue learning and growing and being the best that you can possibly be.

Sam Demma
I think it’s something we share. For me, I’ve recognized I feel the most at peace in pursuit of progress, whether it’s improving at a skill or working on my physical fitness or working toward a goal or a dream I have. And I’ve recognized that it’s not really about the destination. It’s not even so much the journey, but the person that I become in the process, because sometimes the journey is challenging and it sucks, and things aren’t working out the way you want it to,but just the fact that you’re on the path is changing you. And when you change yourself, people around you start to be impacted by it. There’s a speaker I absolutely love. He’s passed away now, but his name is Jim Rohn. And he says the best contribution you can make to a friendor a partner is your own personal development. Because if you improve yourself, you can bring so much more to a relationship, so much more to a conversation, so much more to an interaction with a student. And I had a friend in my house recentlywho was fixing a broken pipe underneath a sink in our basement. Some of my dad’s work buddies and I was handing him the wrench and was fixing the pipe. And he turned up, looked at me and said,did you know you can buy a book at the thrift store for 50 cents? I was like, yeah, Jim, I know. I love books. I bought many. He goes, I bought seven books this morning for $3 and 50 cents, Sam.

Sam Demma
It’s like the world’s information is right there. And I was like, well, soon you’ll be able to buy Brandi Kelly’s book too. So stay tuned. It’s coming out soon. But he just, he didn’t mean to, but in that moment, he just reminded me like, keep working on yourself, stay in the study. Continue being a student. And it had a profound impact on me.

Brandi Kelly
Yeah. And you talk about this in your, in your speeches, but it’s those small, consistent actions. And just the simple things in life make such a big difference. That pursuit of excellence is just that continual process of progress. And it is so, so important that we not only invest in ourselves, but we invest in others. And, you know, you asked me, how, how do you show up for kids? What has made the difference with kids? It’s been that it’s been those small, consistent actions. It’s been showing up. It’s been modeling kindness and optimism. The gold is in the small things that we do every single day.

Sam Demma
Brandi, I’m so excited for the book. I know you’re also helping and serving school districts with keynote speeches and cultural assessments. If anyone’s interested in the book or connecting with you and working with you, what would be the best way for them to get in touch?

Brandi Kelly
They can reach out to me on my website, www.sparkhopeedu.com, or they can find me on most social media platforms under Brandi Nash Kelly. And there is a Lead with Hope Facebook page as well.

Sam Demma
I’m so grateful to know you. I hope you continue doing the work you’re doing. I look forward to reading your book when it’s released, And I hope you enjoy the rest of this lovely February day. We got a lot of snow here in Canada. I’m not sure what it’s like out there, but enjoy it. And we’ll talk soon again.

Brandi Kelly
All right, Sam, I appreciate you as well. Keep serving and growing and leading. Keep serving and growing and leading.

Sam Demma
Thank you.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Brandi Kelly

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

April 23, 2025 by Author Coach Education Speaker Superintendent 0

Taylor Uroda – Student Life and Leadership Assistant and Mathu Vijayakumar – Orientation and Transition Assistant at Trent University Durham

Taylor Uroda - Student Life and Leadership Assistant and Mathu Vijayakumar - Orientation and Transition Assistant at Trent University Durham
About Taylor Uroda and Mathu Vijayakumar

Taylor Uroda (she/her) is completing a Bachelor’s in Social Work at Trent University Durham GTA. In her role as the Student Life and Leadership Assistant with the Student Life Team, Taylor plays a key part in developing student engagement initiatives and leadership programming, helping to foster a welcoming and dynamic campus environment.

A passionate advocate for the helping profession, Taylor has gained valuable hands-on experience working within the social service worker field, where she connects with individuals and communities to support their success. Her dedication to making a positive impact is fuelled by her belief in empowering others and promoting personal growth.

Taylor is particularly interested in pursuing a career in gerontology, where she hopes to enhance the lives of older adults through compassionate care and individualized support. She is driven by a desire to make meaningful contributions to her community and is always seeking opportunities to grow both personally and professionally.

Outside of her academic and professional pursuits, Taylor is a coffee enthusiast and puzzle lover who finds joy in life’s little challenges. She’s often found laughing, as she loves to incorporate humour into everything she does, lightening the mood wherever she goes. Her best friend, Mathu, frequently convinces Taylor to read her favourite books, though Taylor admits she’s still working on that long reading list!

Mathu Vijayakumar (she/her) is a 4th-year Bachelor of Social Work (BSW) student at Trent University Durham GTA, where she brings her unique perspective as a transfer, first-generation, and mature student to her academic journey. For the past three years, Mathu has been a key part of Student Life, focusing on creating meaningful programming for Summer Kickstart, Orientation, and Certificate programs. She’s led and trained Orientation Leaders and Captains, coordinated weekly on-campus events, and worked closely with the Trent Durham Student Association to bring events to life.

Currently, Mathu is completing her social work placement in Malvern, the community where she grew up. There, she facilitates psychoeducation workshops alongside a counsellor, covering topics like mental health, consent, and youth advocacy for middle and high school students. These workshops aim to foster resilience, self-awareness, and empowerment. Mathu is passionate about working with equity-deserving groups and amplifying marginalized voices, striving to create spaces for advocacy and change.

In her downtime, Mathu enjoys reading thrillers and romance novels, is currently tackling swimming lessons, and can often be found FaceTiming her dynamic duo, Taylor Uroda. She firmly believes in the power of community, humour, and the occasional good book to keep life balanced and fulfilling.

Connect with Taylor Uroda: Email | Linkedin
Connect with Mathu Vijayakumar: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Trent University Durham GTA

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

(Transcription from Rev)

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Taylor Uroda and Mathu Vijayakumar

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

April 10, 2025 by School Administration Student Student Leadership Student Success 0

Mark Chapin — Principal of Meyer Middle School

Mark Chapin — Principal of Meyer Middle School
About Mark Chapin

Mark Chapin is the principal of Meyer Middle School in River Falls, Wisconsin, serving approximately 750 students in grades 6 – 8. Meyer Middle School was recognized as a National School of Character in 2016 and again in 2024.  Mark has served as a building administrator in the School District of River Falls for 16 years.  

Prior to coming to River Falls, Mark taught for 12 years in the Ellsworth Community School District as a high school special education teacher and an 8th grade US History teacher. While in Ellsworth he also coached cross-country, track, tennis and basketball.  In 2008 Mark was recognized as the Teacher of the Year in the Ellsworth Community School District. 

In 2019 Mark earned his doctorate degree from Bethel University.  His dissertation focused on character education, leadership and the change process. Mark currently serves as a character education coach through Alverno College and on the Wisconsin Character Education Partnership Advisory Committee.  

Mark works closely with the American Legion Post 121 in River Falls serving on their Veterans Memorial Committee. In 2014 he received the Post 121 Community Service Award.
Finally, in 2023 Mark was the recipient of the Herb Kohl Educational Foundation Leadership award.

In his spare time Mark enjoys fly fishing, splitting wood and mountain biking. 

Connect with Mark Chapin: Email

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Meyer Middle School

School District of River Falls

Ellsworth Community School District

Bethel University

Alverno College

Wisconsin Character Education Partnership Advisory Committee

American Legion Post 121

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host Sam Demma and today we are joined by Mark Chapin. Mark and I connected months ago now. He has shared some impactful quotes with me over email. He let me know that he has 16 rules or principles that he shares with his middle school students every single year and it’s a big hit in his school. He is a advocate and has a huge passion for character development and how it can shape the life of our young people. He works closely with the state of Wisconsin when it comes to character development and I’ve really enjoyed our conversations about books to read and personal development and serving and supporting youth. Mark, thank you so much for taking some of your time to come on the show here today.

Mark Chapin
Thanks a lot, Sam. It’s truly an honor and it’s a privilege to be on your podcast today. And we’re super excited to have you come to Meijer Middle School at the end of April. I know our students and our staff are looking forward to you and your message.

Sam Demma
Let’s hope by then the snow storms have passed. Yeah, I agree. The weather’s back to normal. Do me a favor, Mark, and just take a moment to share a little bit about who you are and what got you interested in building and supporting the character of young people.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, my background, I grew up actually, it’s kind of a crazy story, but I’m the principal. I’m actually sitting in my principal’s office. I graduated from Rural Falls High School in 1990, which is in western Wisconsin. Went to UW-Eau Claire, which is in western Wisconsin, and got a degree, a 1.8 degree, with a special education minor. Student taught at the tribal school up in Hayward, Wisconsin, which is about two and a half hours north of our home here. And then ended up teaching for 13 years. I was a special education teacher for six and then I was a US History teacher for six years. And then I was an assistant principal at Ellsworth High School, which is right down the road, before coming back to my home in River Falls, and I’ve been here for 16 years. In terms of what got me really into education, my mom was a special education paraprofessional, and she provided me some opportunities to work with students, and I also had an opportunity to coach basketball when I was a senior in high school. A group of us, four guys, coached our seventh grade team. And I really realized at a pretty young age that I really had a knack and really enjoyed working with kids. And so my dad wasn’t too keen on me being a teacher. He was worried about me making enough money and supporting myself. So I actually went to school to be an econ major.

Mark Chapin
I did that for a year and I realized I have no idea what a person with an econ degree does for a living. But I always knew in the back of my mind I wanted to teach. And then I worked at a summer camp for five summers up at Eagle River, Wisconsin, northern Wisconsin. And I just I think I followed my calling at that point. And in terms of the yes question about character education, I’ve always been passionate about positive psychology, you know, developing ourselves, but then how can we take that and apply that here at school? And I was fortunate enough to be on a committee called the Healthy Lives Committee through our strategic plan and pitched this idea of character education. And it’s kind of evolved here in our district and it’s being implemented in all of our schools, our four elementary schools, our middle school and our high school. And I just feel like historically education has been something where, you know, going back to Horace Mann and Thomas Jefferson, it was educating the head and educating the heart. And I feel like we’ve gotten away from the heart. And so it’s something that I’ve just been really passionate about.

Sam Demma
When you talk about character education, tell me more about what that means to you or what that lens looks like that you look through when you talk about it.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, that’s a great question. What I know is that the best teacher of character are adults in our kids’ worlds, and that starts with parents. But we also know students don’t grow up, our kids don’t get to pick their parents.

Mark Chapin
But definitely, character has to start in the home. And so as adults, we need to make sure that we’re modeling good character. And so within our district, we wanted to find a model that was out there. And we looked at different frameworks.

Mark Chapin
The one that we came across was from character.org. It’s based on 11 principles. It’s not a canned curriculum. It really helps shape your culture of your school. You start off with principle one by identifying what you value as a community. In our district, we sat down with 40 community members.

Mark Chapin
We went round and round and round. We had two really lengthy meetings and we landed on nine character traits that we value as a community. And that’s true for the framework. So the community can decide what they value. And these are universal values.

Mark Chapin
And I think people get hung up on this idea of values and ethics, but it really transcends all religions. It goes back to Aristotle. And when you read off the list of these character traits or values, it’s hard to argue with them. So things like gratitude, curiosity, respect, responsibility, compassion, perseverance, you know, it’s hard to argue with those things. So, you know, we start with the framework. I mentioned modeling, that’s principle eight, but that framework has really guided our work. And it’s the work that I have an opportunity to work with other districts on how to implement that framework.

Sam Demma
How do you ensure the principles or values are consistently reinforced within the school community? It sounds like they become foundational. Is it month by month? Is it through the teachers? Obviously, modeling the behavior must be a big part of it. But I’d love to hear more.

Mark Chapin
Yeah. Yeah, it’s a great question. So we we focus on one character trade a month and we kind of joke that, you know, once we finish the perseverance, that kids don’t have to persevere anymore.

Mark Chapin
That’s not the case. We want to make sure we’re doing these all the time, but we do do a character kickoff once a month. I get a chance to get in front of kids. We define what it is. We talk about what it looks like. I usually typically show a video. If you guys or anybody out there listening wants to find some really good resource, go to Steve Hartman, Kindness 101. They’re short clips. He’s from CBS and he’s fantastic. So we show a video and then we do a quick reflection, and I send them on their way. We have a group called Girls Who Give Back that signs up around the building, so it’s communicated, so there’s that kind of visual marketing of it as well. And then each grade level has a different theme. That sixth grade focuses on what’s called the Everest Project every year, and that’s focusing on goal setting, so identifying your goals, identifying your character strengths, so they go through a strength finder with the kids, take them through the goal-setting process. That’s really inspiring for our kids.

Mark Chapin
Seventh grade is our service-learning project, so giving back. So, it’s the, when we talk about character, we talk about the head, getting kids thinking about it, the heart, getting them feeling it, and then the hands. So the head, heart, and hands, the hands part is going out in the community. And I’m sure you’ll talk about this with your backpack and your taco and all that,

Mark Chapin
which I’m looking forward to our kids hearing that story. So that giving back, the hands-on, the service learning. And then eighth grade, we have what’s called academic career planning. So we’ve charactered into that as well. And so we have a career fair, and through our careers class that we have in eighth grade, we identify kids’ strengths, we do career interest inventories and those types of things. So, and then like I said, we model it, we have to model it, continue to model it. And then the framework itself, the 11 principles, there’s a rubric that goes with it. So every three years we come back, we identify what we’re doing well, we identify one goal area to get a little bit better every year.

Sam Demma
It sounds very methodical and thought out. And I hope that if there’s another educator listening to this and they’re curious, they reach out to you to ask some questions about it so they can bring something similar to their district or their school. It sounds like you’ll be doing this work even after you finish at the school. So I’ll definitely make sure we include your email information in the show notes in case anyone does want to reach out.

Sam Demma
I had an educator who pulled me to the side of his desk and he said, Sam, living with principles and working hard is never a waste because it builds your character and you carry your character forward with you for the rest of your life. Living with principles and working hard is never a waste because it builds your character and you carry your character forward with you for the rest of your life. How do we remind young people that every choice they make impacts their character, both the positive and the negative? And when a student does make a mistake, how do we address it in a way that builds them up instead of tears them down?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s a great, great question. And I mentioned my 16 life lessons, and one is be forgiving. And so my middle school has been recognized twice as a national school character through character.org, once in 2016 and again in 2023.

Mark Chapin
And I often talk about just because we’ve been recognized as a national school character doesn’t mean we’re perfect. We work with imperfect human beings and I wish I could control everything that comes out of 750 kids’ mouths and all their actions, but I can’t. And so we tell kids that and we have to be forgiving of ourselves. And anytime there’s a kid that’s in any type of trouble or hasn’t demonstrated good character, I let them know, like, listen, good kids make poor choices.

Mark Chapin
They make bad choices sometimes. It doesn’t make them a bad person or a bad kid. And so kids need to hear that. And the important thing is to reflect on it, learn from it, and try not to repeat it. I think that that’s the important thing when it comes to, you know, that we aren’t perfect and we are gonna make mistakes, but we’re gonna keep striving for it, right?

Mark Chapin
You wanna strive for excellence, strive for good character. And you mentioned the other thing is, one of my other life lessons is yes and no are the two most important words we’ll ever use in our life. Right, so sometimes it’s a split split split second. Like, and so we talked about the importance of pausing before you say something to somebody. Pause before you do something that you might regret.

Mark Chapin
So just take a second to pause. And so that’s one more reminder when we talk about character.

Sam Demma
Where did the inspiration come for you to sit down and craft some of the principles, the 16 life lessons you shared with students? I have recently been inspired by many authors, some of which are very much focused on building your life’s philosophy. One is a gentleman named Jim Rohn, who’s passed away now. And he spends his whole lecture talking about the importance of philosophy and how circumstances determine where you start, but your philosophy determines where you finish. What inspired you to start crafting this life lesson philosophy for your students?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s, it’s a great question. Again, our podcast, isn’t going to see this, but this is by my desk. We had a keynote speaker that came by, I don’t know how many years ago, and this is when I was teaching, grade. And it was fundamental rejuvenation. And it had 12 things on it. And I started looking at the list.

Mark Chapin
I was like, those resonate with me. And I said, are there more to that? Or am I on the same page with this, our speaker? And I think kind of in some ways, these are the character things that we pass on to our kids. Before I knew it was character when I was teaching, you know, this was 15, 16 years ago, probably longer than that, almost 20 years ago now, I wanted to pass this along to my students. And so a lot of this is really character-based stuff that probably at the time I didn’t realize was character, but these are the things that kids can take with them that’s gonna make an impact. And I think about like employers, what are employers looking for? I mean, do they want a positive attitude? They want people that can collaborate with other people. There are all these intangible things we talk about character, but where is it being intentionally taught or implemented in schools today? It is just so important.

Mark Chapin
And you can you can look at all the research on it. What employers are looking for: teach the skill and hire for character.

Sam Demma
I had a mentor tell me at the bottom of my job application to put a filter that said, if you believe you’re the right fit for the role, please record a one minute video explaining why. And I was hiring for an executive assistant and we spent $250 on LinkedIn promoting the post. And we received 2000 applications.

Mark Chapin
Wow.

Sam Demma
Guess how many people filmed and sent through a video? 14. And when you do the percentage, it’s like 0.01, less than 0.01%.

Mark Chapin
Wow.

Sam Demma
And I thought, wow, like attention to detail. This role requires attention to detail, yet 99.9% of people didn’t even read the actual job posting. And the reality is that these are individuals who are unemployed and looking for employment. And I was like, ah, like I just wanted to shake them and just grab them and say, come on, you deserve better than this. You can do better than this. And I think that a piece of that comes back to character and how you treat every interaction and every touchpoint in life. And you piqued my curiosity with the 16 lessons, and now you’ve shared two.

Sam Demma
Do you mind sharing a few more of them that are top of mind right now?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, so you just mentioned, kind of just taking pride in your work, right? Attention to detail. We talk about be a craftsman. So back in the day, how people got business is through word of mouth.

Mark Chapin
And so craftsmen would sign their name somewhere on a piece of furniture. So we talk about when you do turn your homework in, sign it with pride. Like you’re the craftsman, make sure there’s attention to detail. Did you read the directions? Are you doing your best work? I talk about, and this is a good example of taking pride in your work. I asked the kids, how many of you mow the lawn? There’s quite a few kids that still mow lawn. I said, how many start daydreaming? A lot of hands go up. How many of you start daydreaming and all of a sudden you look back and there’s a 20-foot strip that you completely missed? I said, okay, me too. I said, how many of you go back and mow it? Half the hands go down. I said, how many of you go back and mow it? You know, they keep their, that’s pride in your work, right? Are you going back and mowing that strip of grass? So that’s another one we talk about. I’m big in having a positive attitude. I think people, it’s hard to be around people that are negative. I think it sucks the life out of you.

Mark Chapin
I talk a lot about Viktor Frankl, the last of our human freedoms is the ability to choose our own attitude. We talk about that. The importance of goal setting. I share a story about Billy Mills and his goal setting process. He won the 10,000 meters in the 1960 Olympics. Talk about leaving your comfort zone. What else? I mentioned the yes and no.

Mark Chapin
Your true character is how you act and how you behave when nobody’s looking. So that’s important. Finding a career you love. Taking care of your body. Here’s an example of you never know how your words are gonna have an impact.

Mark Chapin
We talk about how your tongue is like the rudder of a ship and it can steer you one way or the other. And your words can build people up or tear people down. Like use it to be encouraging. The word encouragement means putting courage into others. And so I shared this story when I was in college. I was getting out of shape. I used to be in really good shape.

Mark Chapin
I was putting on weight. I looked at myself in the mirror when I was a senior in college, I was like, isn’t this the best shape I’m gonna be in the rest of my life? And so, sorry, I should have taken my phone off the hook.

Mark Chapin
Sorry. I started training for a marathon. I signed for a marathon the next day, started training. I had really no business to start, but I did. And I finished my first marathon. And so I shared this story. I mentioned my life lessons. I shared with my eighth graders. And didn’t think of anything other than the last day of school, I shared my list. I shared on the first day as well. And three years later, the student came up to me. He was at prom, and he said, you don’t recognize me, Mr. Chapin, do you? And I said, no, I don’t.

Mark Chapin
He said, your face looks familiar, I can’t picture you. He goes, you don’t recognize me because I lost 100 pounds. I said, how in the world did you lose 100 pounds? He said, I remember what you told me on the last day of school in eighth grade. I started to watch what I ate and I lost. You just, you never know how your words are going to impact people.

Sam Demma
I think it’s such a crazy and beautiful experience when you share inspiration and you’re not sure who it’s going to touch, how it’s going to touch them, when it’s going to click, but when you do see the result of that, it’s really gratifying. You know, I had a mentor for three years named Chris Cummins who is now like an uncle to me in many regards. And he would say, Sam, try this, do this. And, okay, coach, I’m doing it. And every time I would show up and I would try and I would take the shot he told me to take. And after three years, we’ve now transitioned from a coaching relationship just to very close friends and colleagues. And he hasn’t coached anyone else or taken many people on. And he’s like, you know, I tell a lot of people to do the same things I told you to do and most people don’t.

Sam Demma
And I, and I just think, what phenomenon is that? Like, how do we explain that? You know, and this is a person I wanted to be like, and I looked up to, and it sounds like that message you shared really connected with that young person. I’m sure it made you feel like good about it, right?

Mark Chapin
Yeah, it’s the whole starfish. You probably read the starfish, right? Yeah.

Sam Demma
Yeah.

Mark Chapin
It’s like the thousands, you just don’t know if you’re going to make an impact. And there’s certain days where you just you get tired and you get frustrated. Like, am I making am I making an impact at all? And then you’ll get that one note. We’ll get that one email or that one phone call. It’s like, yep, it made a difference.

Sam Demma
Now, what habits do you practice consistently outside of your time

Sam Demma
in the classroom that helps you show up as best you possibly can.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, that’s another great question. First of all, I think self-care is important. So I know when I’m getting anxious and edgy, like if I’m not exercising regularly, I’m not my best self. I do my best thinking after exercise. I’m always in a positive mood,

Mark Chapin
even though I don’t feel like at the time getting up in the morning, like I’m swimming laps or riding my bike in my basement in the winter time. Like that’s important. I think reading devotions, I start my day every day with two devotions.

Mark Chapin
I send out the daily quote, which I’ve sent to you the last couple of days now. You’re on a very select list of people I send it to. But I do send it to my staff every day and then my staff pass it on to their kids in the morning. Not all of them yet. I’m trying to get them to do that because there are such great quotes. That’s from values.com if you’re looking for some kind of motivational boost.

Mark Chapin
You mentioned Jim Rohn. Just watching YouTube, a lot of positive psychology, how can I better myself? Those are kind of the main things.

Sam Demma
I read a book recently that was really influential to me called Turning Pro by a guy named Steven Pressfield. And he talks about the difference between amateurs and professionals. And to be frank, I felt quite embarrassed about myself after I finished reading the book in a really good way. And I think sometimes the inspiration comes from an emotion like embarrassment. And for me, it came from this idea that I’ve spent a lot of time speaking, and especially in the earlier parts of my career, practicing my speeches and consistently writing.

Sam Demma
And then I got so busy, I would just write and speak when I was on the road doing it for people. But outside of that, there wasn’t much of a daily habit and or practice of doing it. And that book really clearly outlines that professionals have a daily practice, and they have a space where they practice, and they have a time when they practice, and they have an attention around their practice. And they show up every single day, and they’re ruthless with their work. They are craftsmen. He shared a story of Pablo Picasso, and someone bought his paintings and stuck them in a gallery.

Sam Demma
And two years later, the gallery opened, and Picasso walked in as a guest to check out his paintings. And he grabbed a razor and cut all of his paintings up on the wall into shreds. And the gallery owner said, what are you doing? And he said, this work is pathetic.

Sam Demma
It’s not a reflection of my work. I will get you some new ones. And I just thought, what a standard to hold yourself to, but to be a true craftsman. And I really appreciate you sharing that reminder to just continue being a student and listening to the things that will change your mindset and continuing to read.

Mark Chapin
Yeah, you mentioned, Sam, that consistency. I just share this with our students in our auditorium with one of our character kickoffs, just how important that consistency with either training or practicing. And I shared with them that it took me five years to finish my dissertation to get my doctorate degree. And I wasn’t making progress. I just, I wasn’t getting it done. And the lit review, the reading, this takes forever. I kept driving by this house in my neighborhood that the workers would show up every day at 6:45 and there they were. And before you know it, the foundation was built and then the framing was up. And I realized like, if I’m gonna get this dissertation up, I have to do work every single day. Otherwise the house isn’t going to get built. My dissertation is not going to get done. And that’s when I started making progress on my paper. Yeah.

Mark Chapin
You know, it’s funny too.

Sam Demma
Jim Rohn often says, my life changed when I was 25. I feel like I was subconsciously waiting until 25 to get in the saddle more consistently for certain things, you know? But I sincerely appreciate your time and the intention around all the work you’re doing. I’m beyond excited to visit the school soon and meet in person and collaborate with your school and your students. If there’s an educator listening, I’ll put your email in the show notes so they can reach out. Absolutely. But I wanted to just say sincerely, Mark, thank you so much for the time, the energy, and everything you’re doing in education.

Mark Chapin
Thanks, Sam. I appreciate it. And hopefully we get out fly fishing when you come to River Falls.

Sam Demma
Can’t wait.

Mark Chapin
All right, Sam, good to talk to you.

Sam Demma
Talk soon.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Mark Chapin

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

April 8, 2025 by Education Educator Principals Student Leadership Student Success 0

Shandi Andres — State Adviser for Kansas FCCLA

Shandi Andres — State Adviser for Kansas FCCLA
About Shandi Andres

Shandi Andres is the State Adviser for Kansas FCCLA.  She also serves a Family and Consumer Sciences (FCS) Education Instructor at Kansas State University.  She is a recipient of the American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences (AAFCS) 2023 Leaders Award. She started her career as a FCS Teacher and FCCLA Adviser.  She moved to a position as an Extension Agent. She served as a FCS & 4-H Agent while also serving as a District Director. These experiences led her to the current position.  

This position allows her to work with youth and FCS professionals from across the state and nation.  Shandi believes that Family and Consumer Science courses, skills, and experiences provide a foundation for individuals to succeed. FCCLA is the student organization as part of FCS in which students are able to grow as leaders and develop skills for life.  

Connect with Shandi Andres: Email | Instagram | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Kansas FCCLA

Kansas State University

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast. This is your host, Sam. And today we are joined by Shandi Andres. Shandi Andres is the State Advisor for Kansas FCCLA, and she also serves as a Family and Consumer Science Educational Instructor at Kansas State University.

Sam Demma
She’s the recipient of the American Association of Family and Consumer Sciences Leadership Award in 2023. And she started her career as an FCS teacher and FCCLA advisor, which I’m sure she’ll be talking a little bit about here today. She’s also done some work with 4-H and with the district as a director.

Sam Demma
And these experiences have led her to her position today. She’s also currently in calving season. with the district as a director. And these experiences have led her to her position today. She’s also currently in calving season. And I know it’s very busy for her. Shandi, thank you so much for setting aside some time to be on the podcast here today.

Shandi Andres
Yeah, thanks Sam for having me.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about what got you interested and involved in education and family consumer sciences.

Shandi Andres
So, I remember even as a little kid thinking that I wanted to be a teacher. Many fellow educators, you know, when they were little, they probably had their siblings set up and playing school, etc. And that was no different at my house. However, the biggest difference was I didn’t want to teach math, I didn’t want to teach reading. So I knew I wanted to be a teacher, but I didn’t really know what I wanted to teach. And it wasn’t until I got to high school, my freshman year, one of my best friends drug me into the organization fair and her aunt was the FCCLA teacher and FACTS or FCCLA advisor and FACTS teacher and she drug me in and she said, hey, we should do this. And I said, okay. So I signed up and I was actually enrolled in a facts class that semester. And what I found was that I found my home. I grew up with an ag background, absolutely love ag, grew up in 4-H. But I found my home in FCS.

Shandi Andres
That’s the acronym we use for family and consumer sciences. So you’ll hear people say FACTS, you’ll hear people say FCS, but it all comes down to the same. And so my high school career, I took as many family and consumer science classes as I could. I was a chapter officer, star event participant, district officer, and really launched my desire to be a FACS teacher. So by the time I was a junior, I was committed to being a FACS teacher and that’s kind of continued with my path of family and consumer sciences.

Sam Demma
What was it specifically about family and consumer sciences versus the other subject areas that really drew you in or pulled you in?

Shandi Andres
No, it was skills that everybody could use every day. When we think about, yes, we need math. We really do. You know, kids don’t necessarily see that they need math, but I can tell you exactly how we use it. You know, when don’t necessarily see that they need math, but, but I can tell you exactly how we use it. You know, when I am going to make a recipe and it’s written as a single recipe, but I want to quadruple it because I’m serving a larger group, then I can calculate that out in my head because I know how fractions work and how our, our math works. So it’s real life skills. It’s also skills like communication and public speaking that we grow and develop through our time in those family and consumer science classes. And so if you think about our careers, we have a lot of careers in the new career cluster model and previously that are connected to family and consumer sciences, but our skills that we learn in family and consumer sciences launch us into any career, help us to be better people and to be better consumers. If we think about family and consumer sciences, we can break that down. So anything that involves us as being a member of a family, and that means as a member of the family, we’re a member of the community.

Shandi Andres
But also then we think about consumerism and how do we make better decisions as consumers. And so that might mean when I buy a car, how do I choose that process and that purchase to make the best choice for me? But it could also mean that how do I choose a banking product or how do I choose my insurance? And so all of those impact us as individuals. and FCCLA is that I’m going to call it professional development component for students in the area of the family and consumer sciences but when I’m talking to potential students or teachers, parents about our program then a lot of times I get well what can I do if I don’t want to be in family and consumer sciences.

Shandi Andres
We have a lot of components that are just about making making yourself better. One of our national programs is the power of one and so it really is about you personally. How do we how do we make ourselves better? When we think about power of one, then it has modules within it. So one of them is a better you. And so you set personal goals for yourself to be able to improve something about you. One of them is a family tie. So maybe that means that you want to improve our relationship with your mom or dad. Working on working, so I’m going to prepare for a career, how do I do that? Take the lead and then speak out for FCCLA. Those are just, that’s just a very basic program within FCCLA and so it’s applicable to anyone. Our competitive events are the same way. When we think about maybe you want to be in a family and consumer science-related career, but maybe you don’t.

Shandi Andres
And if you don’t, there’s still competitive events and story events like leadership or career investigation that are very much just about you and not necessarily about a family and consumer science science related career.

Sam Demma
Tell me about your first experience with FCCLA.

Shandi Andres
I don’t know if I can tell you my very first experience. But I do know that I was part of our chapter. So that’s the basic unit building blocks within the organization. So our chapter was in our high school. And so we had a chapter there where I went to high school. And so we had monthly meetings.

Shandi Andres
Those monthly meetings allowed me to see how parliamentary procedure was used in a business meeting beyond just knowing Robert’s Rules of Order, how do we use it. But then we also planned activities, community service projects. We took some of our national programs and created projects within the school and communities. I did star events. So my freshman, sophomore and junior year, I competed in the job interview of star event.

Shandi Andres
And my goal was to make it to nationals. And so I did my junior year I made it to nationals. Part of the job interview event means that you’re going to have a job that you want to apply for. You’re going to create a portfolio as if you are preparing for that job. And then you meet with the judges just like a formal interview process and they’re going to have your material.

Shandi Andres
And that was a great learning experience for me as an individual, not only to think about the preparation of that portfolio, but also then how do I efficiently communicate with the person sitting on the other side of the table, and to be able to take constructive criticism and feedback from those judges. So my junior year, I qualified for nationals, and I was able to go to nationals that year and that was that was fantastic to be able to do that. My senior year then I had to choose a different project. I couldn’t take the same events so I had to I did something different but but that created that process created a lot of opportunities for connections but in personal growth. The one year I was working on my job interview event and we actually had a parliamentary procedure team from our chapter. And so that team actually worked, they met a lot.

Shandi Andres
They usually met two or three times a week to go through their practice. And one of our chapter members that was on the Parlipro team that year actually was diagnosed with diabetes during the preparation. And so to see the connections that happen beyond just school and classroom for those for my friends and those fellow students was just amazing and we don’t create those connections when we’re just just

Sam Demma
attending class. It sounds like every touch point you’ve had with FCCLA has been an impactful one. Whether you were the student or the advisor, or just involved at an event. Why do you think it’s important that more students get involved in experiences like FCCLA or FCS?

Shandi Andres
Well, one of them I think that’s really important is connection. You know, our students when in middle school and high school really need that connection. Yes, they need that connection with their peers, but they also need that connection with an adult in their building. And so when we participate in extracurricular or intercurricular activities, then we actually help build those connections and students do better in school. FCCLA, depending on who you ask, would say, or most of the time we would say that it is intercurricular. So the hope is that all of those advisors are using the FCCLA materials within their classroom. And then sometimes it becomes extracurricular because you have students who really want to take it above and beyond. But it is designed to be intercurricular. And yes, it does take a little time outside of class if you are doing well within your chapter.

Sam Demma
What part in your journey did you also start serving at Kansas State University?

Shandi Andres
So when I was fresh out of high school, or out of college, I actually attended Kansas State University. And then when I was fresh out of college, I took a teaching position. So I taught in a family and consumer science program in a multi-teacher department. So there were two of us and served as the FECLA advisor. I had my two children and my husband and I made the decision that I was going to leave the classroom so I could stay home and so I stayed home with my kids for a couple of years. My husband was managing an Angus operation. And so then our family process, I actually went to work full time on the ranch for five years. And when we moved home, we were living about two hours from where we grew up.

Shandi Andres
So when we moved home, I took a position with K-State Research and Extension. And if you’re not familiar with extension, extension is associated with the land grant universities, oftentimes called cooperative extension. And in Kansas, that’s housed through K-State. And so I became a Kansas State University employee when I joined K-State Research and Extension as an agent. And so I was the Family and Consumer Science and 4-H agent for the district. And I was with them for six and a half years. I took over as interim director during my time and then I went to director.

Shandi Andres
And I absolutely loved Extension and I loved 4-H. And we all have paths in our journey and part of my journey included a change. And so I, technically I changed job, but I’m still employed through Kansas State University. So I moved from my position with extension, which was out in the county. To campus and so I’m housed at Kansas State University. And my position is a 2 part position. So, I, I am employed on campus and so 20% of my contract is for teaching. That’s the family and consumer science education instructor. And so I teach our methods course for our students who are going to be family and consumer science teachers.

Sam Demma
Oh, wow.

Shandi Andres
Yeah. So I get to work with our pre-service teachers. And so in the fall, I methods and supervise practicum. And then in the spring I supervise student teaching for those students. And so making their placements out in the field and matching them up and doing their supervisions. And I work with our student organization for FACS Ed. And then the rest of my time is spent as the Kansas FCLA state advisor. And that is a contract through our state Department of Education. So they contract out our state advisors. And so that happens to be the other part of my position. I I love the combination of my position. I love that I still get to work with professionals in the field. I get to help prepare our students as they’re entering the classroom. And then I get to work with our state officers and planning our state events. So that’s the state advisor role. So I serve as an administrative function for the organization. And then I help work with our state officers and help plan leadership trainings at state events and get to see all of it come together every time. And so that’s really an amazing process and a rewarding part of my job.

Sam Demma
When you speak about it, it’s so clear that you’re passionate about all of the roles because it sounds like you could talk about them forever and you light up and you’re smiling the whole time. When you think of the advisors you had, is there any that still are front and center in your mind?

Shandi Andres
Well, I just had one FCCLA advisor. My chapter advisor was there the whole time. And she’s actually now a cousin by marriage. My husband and I started dating before I started high school. And his mom and my teacher’s husband were first cousins. And so I got to know her through class, but also outside.

Shandi Andres
And so what I appreciated about her as an advisor was her willingness to let students take the lead, jump in for pretty much anything. We were able to toss at her. But also her passion for family, for sciences, and for teaching. She was very animated, very structured in her classroom, and so I really appreciated those dynamics.

Shandi Andres
She has since left the classroom, but obviously we still still chat. And it did make a huge difference and an impact on on what I was going to do. And it was a simple ask of, hey, because you know you could do this as a career. And sometimes we have interactions with great people, but they don’t necessarily see their potential. And so as teachers, as adults working with youth, sometimes it means a simple observation of, hey, have you considered this for your career? Or have you considered looking at this? Because I think you’d be great at it.

Shandi Andres
And I think that’s really important as we think about choose preparing, choosing, advocating for teachers is how do we grow that profession? How do we encourage those youths to capture and take hold of their natural interest?

Sam Demma
It sounds like one of the ways you support young people is by acknowledging their own greatness through suggestions of pathways that they could pursue based on your observations. When it comes to building relationships with young people, supportive relationships, both with FCCLA or in the classroom, what else do you think makes all the difference when it comes to connecting with the young person?

Shandi Andres
Sometimes it’s simply them knowing that you are available, that you care, that you understand, but also sometimes that means picking up on the little things. I have our state president right now and she’s actually been on our state officer team for two years. And so she traveled with me to one of our events. And in one, she’s very, very, very good about writing thank you notes. Thank you notes following the event. And that’s one of the things that she excels at. But in one of her

Shandi Andres
thank you notes, she commented about like, thanks for always having a listening ear and for having gum to chew on when I need it. So sometimes it’s the little things that you capture. One of our training events this last fall, we usually go, I usually take our state officers, part of their training, but also advocacy

Shandi Andres
opportunities is to go to Capital Leadership, which is held in DC. And it didn’t happen this last year because of the election year. And so we went to a different training, one at the Fall Leadership Institute, and that was actually a partnership with Disney this year. So they went and did the leadership training with Disney, and then as a bonus, then they got to go to the Disney theme park to check it out.

Sam Demma
Oh, wow.

Shandi Andres
One of my state officers was very adamant that he doesn’t like roller coasters. He skipped out on the Incredicoaster. But he had his sights set on Space Mountain. He was going to go on Space Mountain while we were there. If you’re not familiar, Space Mountain is a roller coaster inside.

Sam Demma
Dark.

Shandi Andres
Dark.

Sam Demma
Yeah.

Shandi Andres
It’s absolutely dark. So we convinced him that he could go on their runaway rail car with us. And he ended up, our group got split. So we had a group at the front and a group at the back. And when we got done, he survived and he had a smile on his face. But he told me that he was going to ride with me on Space Mountain. And I said, okay. And he goes, because you laugh on the roller coasters and that makes me feel better. And I was at the front, yes, I laugh on roller coasters. And I said, you could hear me? And he goes, yeah, I could hear your laugh on the roller coaster.

Shandi Andres
And so it was something that I do naturally and I didn’t think about it. But his statement made me think about how sometimes we do little things that others pay attention to and capture onto that we don’t. It does have an impact on others, positive or negative. I think that’s important to remember. But in this case, it made me smile and it made my heart happy to hear him, hear him, um, take that in a positive light instead of negative.

Sam Demma
Oh, my, my laugh sounds like a flock of dying geese. So we’re the same people can recognize it from some ways away. And you’re so right. Sometimes the things that we take for granted are the things, not even maybe take for granted, but the things we don’t even recognize are the things that other people appreciate the most.

Sam Demma
And I think that’s what’s so unique about education or working with young people is you never really know what’s going to connect and make a difference, but you show up with the intention every single day to be of service and support and help and trust that something will connect and will make an impact. It’s been such a pleasure chatting with you. I can’t believe the time has already flown by. If some educator is, you know, an educator is listening to this, they might be struggling right now or a little bit burnt out. What advice would you give a colleague or someone else in education who’s just going through a lot right now?

Shandi Andres
I would say I have two parts to this. One of them is to remember your why, because your why, if you can remember that, will usually help you get through some of those tough times, but also remind us like, what’s your purpose? Why did you get into this? Or, why do you hope to help others with? What’s your why? That’s the first one. The second thing is, I think today, even more than ever, it’s really important to remember that we practice some self-care. Maybe that means that we take our calendar and we write it, make sure we have white space. If you’re not familiar with white space,

Shandi Andres
I use a paper calendar intentionally because I can see if I have any white space on my day and that’s me. But making sure that we have some white space for ourselves, for our own time or know where those boundaries are. But also maybe it’s the little thing.

Shandi Andres
Maybe that means there’s a song that’s your pick me up. Maybe that means there’s a scent that is your go-to. Maybe that’s a candle you can keep close. Maybe that’s a perfume or a spray. But something that reminds you, even when days are tough, to take a deep breath. And what’s the good? And let the bad go. Breathe it out. And so I think those two parts are really important as we take care of ourselves as educators and to be able to give back to our profession.

Sam Demma
I got a lot of green space and yellow space and red space and blue space. I got to find some white space, Shandi. I appreciate you so much for taking the time to share some of your journey and beliefs around education and impacting young people.

Sam Demma
I look forward to meeting you shortly. I’m so excited to be of service and support to Kansas FCCLA. If there is an educator listening to this that wants to reach out and ask you a question, what would be the best way for them to get in touch? You can reach me at my email.

Shandi Andres
So that’s sdandres@ksu.edu.

Sam Demma
Awesome. Thank you so much for your time and keep up the amazing work you’re doing.

Shandi Andres
Thanks, Sam. Hope to see you in April.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Shandi Andres

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

April 3, 2025 by Education Educator State Advisor Student Leadership Student Success 0

Callie Sue Costello – Senior at Centennial High School, Boise, Idaho and Idaho FCCLA State President

Callie Sue Costello - Senior at Centennial High School, Boise, Idaho and Idaho FCCLA State President
About Callie Sue Costello

Callie Sue Costello is a dedicated senior at Centennial High School in Boise, Idaho, and has been an active member of the Family, Career, and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA) since her freshman year. Currently serving as the Idaho FCCLA State President, Callie has demonstrated exemplary leadership, compassion, and empathy in her work with her peers and the community. These values are at the core of her work within FCCLA, where she has focused on building strong connections with others, as she believes that relationships are the foundation of meaningful change.

Callie Sue has a deep passion for Family and Consumer Sciences (FCS), which has inspired her plans to attend Boise State University (BSU) in the fall to pursue a degree in Early Childhood Education. With aspirations of becoming a teacher, she is committed to making a positive impact on the lives of children and their families.

One of Callie Sue’s most defining traits is her resilience—she never gives up. Whether it’s through her leadership in FCCLA or her personal academic pursuits, Callie is determined to face challenges head-on and continues to inspire those around her with her perseverance and dedication.

Connect with Callie Sue Costello: Email | Instagram

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Centennial High School

Family, Career, and Community Leaders of America (FCCLA)

Idaho FCCLA

Boise State University (BSU)

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam Demma, and today we are joined by Callie Sue Costello. Callie, a senior at Centennial High School in Boise, Idaho, currently serves as the Idaho FCCLA State President after being actively involved in the organization since her freshman year. Her leadership within Family, Career, and Community Leaders of America reflects her core values of compassion and relationship building as catalysts for meaningful change. With a deep passion for family and consumer sciences, Callie plans to attend Boise State University to pursue early childhood education, channeling her notable resilience and determination into her goal of becoming a teacher who positively impacts children and families. She is also one of the most persistent and dedicated people that I know. Callie, thank you for taking the time to be on the show here today. Please, tell me a little bit about your experience as a student and how it got you involved in FCCLA.

Callie Sue
So, back like four years ago when I was a little baby freshman, I took a class called leadership. And at the time we had a student teacher, Mr. Montana, who is now my like FCC advisor. My advisor like there’s like the lead teacher that was Ms. Berglund. She’s like my first advisor and I love her to death and she moved away so that after my freshman year. I took leadership and that class is tied in with FCCLA. So you do projects with for FCCLA in that class and then it just like you get created on that you get tied about FCCLA. You could say hey come to this event let’s go. And you get a day out of school pay 20 bucks to go You know, it’s a day at school. I didn’t care what I was missing And then I took that as okay like like this is gonna be fun because I wanted to be a part of something Knowing myself. I’m not someone that doesn’t try hard. I’m not someone that just gives up on something. So I wanted to I wanted to be an essay so I make a change. So my freshman year I was a chapter officer so for like for my school um which is just Centennial I was the first VP so I took all the notes for the meeting and just hope if the president was gone and then I said okay I want to do more this is not enough for me I’m not doing anything and then I ran for um district so a little bit bigger part of Idaho, and I did PR. So social media, Instagram, Facebook, that was fun, but I wanted to do more. And I said, I’m not gonna stop there. And then my sophomore to junior year, I ran for state officer, that was my first term. And I did PR again, because it’s a little bit more like the bigger scale, state officer is a big step. You go through all the crazy speeches in front of all the 500 people at the state conference and the nerve-wracking just everything about running for the office is crazy. Makes you want to cry. And then last year I wanted to run one more time for my senior year and I was elected as the state president for ILO at CCLA against, and I have a team of eight right now, so I am meeting I’m getting asking to our conference in April.

Sam Demma
Tell me a little bit about wanting to be a part of something. I think that is a desire that everyone has, you know, and tell me how FCCLA kind of filled that desire or want.

Callie Sue
Um, well, I think growing up, my mom said, you’re going to be able to, you’re going to do something, Kelly. She always said, you wear your heart on your sleeve. You care for everybody. You need to, you need to do something with that, like with your passion. And so, at CCLA, I learned, I found my love for being a teacher. Within the CCLA, I just competed in a project a couple of months ago about positive guidance for children, and that is teaching teachers how to be a better teacher. And looking at me, who is a little baby high schooler that doesn’t have a college degree or anything that just has worked with time and been involved with leadership and connection and communication. It’s like I can make a change on a student through talking to a teacher in a different way. And from the consumer sciences is really what that is, is connection and leadership. And basically what you need to do, you need to have SES to even do a lot of basic things, like cooking and getting dressed every day, you need to have SES to do that.

Callie Sue
And so I think being able to make a change through, like even like when I met you and I introduced you to my team, like that was like, I made a change of like, hey, like we can get this guy. He’s crazy. Like we can bring him, because everyone on the team said, no, you can’t do that. You can’t, you can’t make him, you can’t pull him onto our team. I was like, no, no, no, no, no. Just watch. And that’s why I’m just very persistent. And I don’t like giving up and that’s the way that I make a change. I feel like it’s because I’m setting the bar higher than someone else. Maybe not. Maybe I think I reached that bar and you know, and I’m going to be the one that says, no, I’ll try. Just watch. I’ll try.

Sam Demma
For context, for everyone listening, Callie saw me speak at a conference in Boise. I wanna say it was last November. Two years ago, me. Two years ago. And decided, you know,

Callie Sue
Sam, it’d be awesome to have you come and speak at our event as well. The event is a little bit of a smaller size event. So the team probably told her, there’s no way it’s gonna work out. Logistically, it’s not gonna be possible. And she drafted up letters for local businesses and rallied support and I was blown away by it all and we found this cool win-win-win scenario and I’m going back to Boise as a result. So you really are very persistent and I applaud you on it and hope that that’s something you carry forward for the rest of your life.

Sam Demma
You mentioned you’re not in college yet or have a degree, but you’ve had so much experience working with young people. When it comes to building relationships with students and youth, that’s what every teacher wants to do.

Callie Sue
What do you think is most important? I think I have a twin brother, because some people don’t know that about me. We are very, very opposite. Like I am the one that wants to go, go, go and keep trying. He’s like, no problem, I’m just giving up. So I think people mistake him to be me. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, I’m Kallie Sue. I’m not him. I love him, he’s my brother. But I want to be different. And so my teacher, cause she both of us are in her class, she’s like, what is, you get to think like, yeah, we’re twins.

Callie Sue
But I think her connecting with me and seeing that I could do more is what I wanted to do for little children. A lot of little kids, this is like teacher language. If you have a kid that’s like a problem child or like a challenging behavior, people just give up. And they want to say, no, if I can’t teach this classroom, I don’t want to do it. I can’t continue being a teacher in here. I say, no, I’ll go in there and I’ll do it. Because you can’t give up on a child. They just need help. Every form of behavior is a way of communicating something. People don’t see it like that. And I’m like, no, no, no, no, no, look at it. Maybe because the teacher in there hasn’t been consistent enough with whatever they’re doing. It’s a fallout on what you shouldn’t you’re not doing and that’s what they’re reacting in that way But some people tell me I’m just crazy and I know nothing But I’m like, no, no, no, like look at it like the situation like it’s not I Know I go on but when I talked about my workshop, I taught my boss That used to work for did love me talking about that because I’m just a kid. I was like, no, but I don’t want to be more than a kid. I want to be seen as someone that wants to help help your staff and wants to help those kids in that class because I love those kids and they’re not mine, but I love them. And I don’t want to be seen as like a threat. I want to be seen as a teacher that just wants to help somebody. And that’s why I think like having the change and not giving up is what I am fond of or what I usually try to aim for because that’s what children deserve and that’s what like adults deserve too is like to not be giving up on.

Sam Demma
You’re gonna make such a big contribution to so many young people, I can already feel it.

Callie Sue
I wanna teach kindergarten one day. High schoolers in me and I’m not a fan of high school. And at kindergarten, like that age is just beautiful and they’re learning how to be a big kid. And I just love that, because I loved being a big kid when I was little, like getting into elementary school and seeing what I could do with what I want, like what stuff I could pick that day or what my friends I saw, just being a part of that is what I want to inspire and change.

Sam Demma
Something I have to share with a lot of my friends and younger people in my life is that age doesn’t determine ability. Sometimes it does, but for example, you could have a 60-year-old person who’s never taken a professional photo in their life and a 13-year-old student who’s been taking photos with a professional camera for two years. This young person who’s been taking photos for two years has more experience with professional photography than the 60 year old. Just because you have age doesn’t mean you have experience with something.

Sam Demma
You can be a young person obsessed with helping young people and be more obsessed with that than someone twice your age. And just because you are younger, it doesn’t mean your input, your insights, your ideas aren’t valuable. So never forget that. I think you’re going to make a big impact.

Callie Sue
I think that’s why I love FCC so much is because I get to make decisions. I get to be a part of that and say things. Like we just picked our gifts, everyone gets it. Like at a conference, like I got to be a part of that. And it’s like just making little decisions to put like our conference together and to put like a lesson plan, what I want to put together, like you’re just like being a part of that. And then she said like let me be a leader and like I have people like this one on my team now that ran because of me. Like she ran because she saw me at BASIC and teach a conference and a workshop about communication. Like that to me, just like okay, like I’m doing something right. I’m not, I’m not feeling, I’m not stupid, I’m not dumb, I’m doing something right. That touched her and said, I can be an officer just like how I do.

Sam Demma
Wow, you know, you’re balancing a lot. School responsibilities, FCCLA responsibilities, other things in life. There’s a teacher listening to this doing the same. Balancing teaching, balancing extracurricular activities, balancing life at home.

Sam Demma
Sometimes they get extremely overwhelmed and a little bit burnt out. And I’m sure you’ve had that experience at some point in your life. What advice do you have for teachers who might be going through that? Take it a day at a time.

Callie Sue
My person, like my boyfriend is terrible at managing everything. He just wants to break down and cry. And I’m like, okay, I’m like, okay. Like I had two binders for my class, for my SDS class. I’m like, okay, one day at a time. I’m really good at making like a list of what I need to do right now. And then other things they’ll just fall. They will just fall into your day. If you’re up till 1am that’s okay. I don’t recommend that because you need sleep. But take it a day at a time and it will all go the way you want it to. It may seem crazy. You may want to cry for five minutes to ten minutes but then make a list and realize what you need to do right now what’s most important for you or your students that day and then everything else would just fall into place. Where did you get all this wisdom from at such a young age? Because I’ve done a lot because I um I think I taught me a lot of that. I think I taught me time management when I have a deadline that I have to meet and I’m in a set deadline, I’m like, oh, okay, I need to do that. And then I’m a daughter and a sibling and a girlfriend and a friend and a peer and a teacher at my work. And it’s just, I used to laugh at my mom a lot. Maybe when you meet my mom, you’ll learn how I act. But she has shown me to never give up. And that’s, I think, where I get it all from because you give up and you’re saying that, that you’re weak, I guess in a way, or that you, not weak is not the right word, but if you give up, you’re letting whatever’s in front of you become way too big of it needs to be. And don’t let don’t want to be a cloud over your head. Just keep going. The rain cloud will go behind you and it’s okay.

Sam Demma
One of my friends always told me the worst time to stop is in the middle of the storm. If you’re going through a storm, don’t stop, keep going to get to the other side of it, you know?

Sam Demma
And it sounds like that’s been a common theme throughout your life. I’m curious, when you think of other caring adults who’ve had a big impact on you, it sounds like your mom has been foundational. Who else has had a big impact and what specifically did they do for you?

Callie Sue
Right now I’m in an early childhood class at Moravian High School. I’m going to get my CDA and her name is Miss Phillips and I have known Miss Phillips since I was a baby freshman and I met her when I ran for state officer as well and I’d become her student. That’s where I bug her and she’s annoyed at me because I went to her so much now but um before I ran for state president I called her bawling my eyes out crying because I didn’t think I could do it I didn’t have the support really from the people that I wanted to have support from and I was told that I can’t do it and I’m gonna fail and I can’t juggle at all I said no no no okay so I called myself I was at Hobby Lobby doing something and I called her. I called her crying and I said, tell me I can do it. Tell me that I’m not gonna fail. I need someone to tell me that I’m not crazy. And she’s like, why are you so nervous? Because I’m just doubting what people told me and I’m doubting that I can’t do it. Because I just can’t, I want to be a state president. I cannot, that’s crazy to me. And she just listened to me and she told me that it was okay to cry and it’s okay to think about it if I chose to not run for state president, but She just listened to me. I guess was the answer to that question and she never told me like yep, you’re crazy Yep, you’re gonna fail She said you may fail and that’s okay, but it’s okay to fail. It’s okay to have a day where you are Off for your late on a deadline. It’s okay, but you can do it. And I left Hobby Lobby and sent my application in and then I went to the office and got picked for state president and here I am.

Sam Demma
One of my favorite quotes from Denzel Washington, Matthew McConaughey, there’s a few people who have said it, is that failure is the feedback you need to get closer to the goal you’re trying to achieve. And if you look at it from that perspective, it’s not a failure, it’s a stepping stone in the right direction. And without any failure, it’s unlikely you’ve ever tried. If you’re not trying, you’re not failing. If you’re trying, at some point, you’re gonna have feedback. I think it’s so important that we all keep that in mind. This advisor, Ms. Phillips, does she know how much of an impact she’s made on you?

Callie Sue
She does. I probably, I don’t tell her it enough, but I see her every other day when I’m in class and I always say I love you and she said I love you too, Callie Sue, because that to me shows that she knows just how much effect that the fact that I’ve made on her and she’s made on me. She doesn’t know a time that um some of her students are running for state officer actually this year and she goes I told them I want them I want them to beat you. They need to look up to you, Kaisu. I’m like no no no, that’s a good idea. Like like they’re gonna be like the next Kaisu like reaching for the sky like there’s no limit because that’s what you do and I’m like oh thank you. So she knows I’m gonna give her something for family year because I adore her and she never ever gives up on anybody and that’s that’s really how I love her kids too, she’s a good kid either. That’s what she’s like is a teacher for her, is what she’s offered and so she never gets, she has all these ideas of what it means to be a teacher and I just love that she never gives up on us as like an adult, a young adult or a preschooler that’s having a behavior problem.

Sam Demma
What I’m taking from this interview, especially from the perspective of an educator, is that sometimes the people in your classroom that are being impacted by your words and actions, your students, will tell you. Sometimes they might not, you know. You said, you know, maybe you don’t tell her as much as you should. And there’s some educators listening who don’t maybe all the time hear how much of an impact they’re having on their students, but it doesn’t mean the impact’s not there. I’m also taking away this idea of never giving up in all aspects of life, because the challenge that shows up, you don’t wanna give it power over you. You don’t wanna allow it to, you don’t want it to allow, you don’t wanna allow it to change the way you choose to proceed. I’m taking this idea away of shooting from the stars and recognizing that things may be difficult in the moment, but don’t stop then. You know, get through the other side of it.

Sam Demma
Take it day by day. Control what you can control. Is there anything else you’d want to say to any student or educator listening? This has been such a lovely conversation.

Callie Sue
You will get there. You may have some dream, make it your reality. My dream is to be a teacher one day and I just got enrolled in college to be a teacher. So never ever give up for the stars like you said and If you cry, that’s okay. It’s okay to cry for five minutes, but keep going and don’t ever give up.

Sam Demma
Cali Sue, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the podcast here today.

Callie Sue
Of course.

Sam Demma
I’ll see you in Boise.

Callie Sue
Oh my gosh, yes I will, bye.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Callie Sue Costello

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

March 27, 2025 by Education President Student Leadership Student Success 0

Janis Volker – School Counselor at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School

Janis Volker - School Counselor at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School
About Janis Volker

Janis Volker is the School Counselor for grades 6-12 at Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School. She started in the district in 2004 as the elementary counselor and spent 4 years at Roselawn Elementary School. In September 2008 she transitioned to the high school/middle school, making this her 21st year in the district. Prior to entering education she was a program coordinator for Barron County Restorative Justice for two years. That experience working with law enforcement, schools, and community members was a wonderful foundation to school counseling. She felt honored to be present with victims and offenders that worked to heal the harm that was caused.

In the high school/middle school she has many roles that support students, including the coordination of the Early College Credit, Advanced Placement, Start College Now, and Youth Apprenticeship programs. On a daily basis she is assisting students with their academic and career planning, college applications, scholarships, and providing individual counseling and SEL classroom instruction. She coordinates the ASVAB Career Exploration program and the PSAT/NMSQT, as well as assisting with the proctoring of state assessments. Behind every successful program and initiative at school is a team that works together to get everything accomplished. No one does it alone.

Advising students on their next steps and encouraging them to explore dual credit courses to earn college credits in high school are some of her favorite experiences working with students. Seeing the growth, both academically and socially, from year to year and celebrating them as they cross the stage at graduation; are some of the most rewarding days. She is proud to work in her district that is so supportive of students, families, and staff. 

Connect with Janis Volker: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Chetek-Weyerhaeuser High School/Middle School

Roselawn Elementary School

Barron County Restorative Justice

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma
Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator Podcast. This is your host, Sam, and today we are joined by Janis Volker. Janis has been in education and counseling for a total of 21 years. She has worked in the middle school age bracket, the high school age bracket, and the elementary school age bracket. Janis and I will cross paths here shortly in her school district.

Sam Demma
And I’m so grateful that before I had the opportunity to chat with her. Janis, welcome to the show and thank you so much for being here.

Janis Volker
Good morning, thank you for having me.

Sam Demma
Tell us a little bit about what got you into education and wanting to support young people.

Janis Volker
Well, way back in high school, I thought I was going to be a college professor and I just had that in my mind, I’m going to be a teacher. And then I started off in college and, you know, I had a rough start. And I was once told, I don’t think your grades are going to get you into that school of education. And that really hit me hard.

Janis Volker
And it was a little bit of a wake-up call that this is serious. This is like, this is all counting, you know, I need to really figure myself out. And then I found my path down psychology and loved psychology. And that was my first degree. And then in my senior year, I discovered, oh, wow, this whole world of if I continue and get a master’s degree, I could actually work with students and help them in a way that I wanted to. And that’s how I discovered school counseling.

Sam Demma
What about psychology intrigued you?

Janis Volker
Well, I have to be honest. I think it was a lot of figuring out myself and my family and the dynamics and then also just being able to help other people. I found it fascinating, all the different theories, you know, psychotherapy. And I knew I didn’t necessarily want to do that, but I just wanted to be around students. But I didn’t think I wanted to teach.

Janis Volker
And so that’s how I found my way into the education system.

Sam Demma
It sounds like you married the best of both worlds. Work with young people, fulfill that love for psychology and supporting them with it. Tell me a little bit about after the psychology education, what happened next?

Janis Volker
I actually first started in school psychology and after just one term of it, had to do a shadowing experience with a school counselor. She was at the elementary level and I just loved her job. I thought it was, wow, look at her. She’s sitting on the floor with these stuffed animals talking to kids about their feelings. It was like, this is so much fun. And so I did that switch to school counseling right away in the program.

Janis Volker
But I think it was, you know, just, I didn’t realize when I first started college in psychology that I couldn’t probably get in front of people and help people unless I continued my education. Like the opportunities were more limited. So that’s why I decided to continue on. And I kept going. Took me a while because in that time I also was married and then became a mom myself and so didn’t take a direct path through college.

Sam Demma
Did you have a counselor in middle, high, or college that really supported you through your own transition or challenges?

Janis Volker
I definitely had people that supported me but I wasn’t one that would go and seek out help myself. So I didn’t really have that experience other than like helping with scheduling and talking about college visits and things like that. But it was a teacher of mine, a professor in my undergraduate that taught us all these career opportunities. And I think without him, I don’t know that I would have kept going. I was really thankful that he shared that with us before we graduated.

Sam Demma
You and I are very alike in the sense that we sometimes don’t go out of our way to seek the help we might need in the moment we need it. And I would argue that’s most people because of a stigma and a fear. And it may even be most students in a school building. Are there any signs or signals of distress that you look for in students to recognize if someone might need some help but are a little bit afraid to ask for it?

Janis Volker
Yes, I think there’s lots of clues. When you, as an observer, just see, you know, when someone’s going down the hallway, are they talking with other people? Are they really by themselves? You know, at lunchtime, are they with a group of friends? Are they off in a corner on their phone? Are things going on in their life that you know about, but they’re not seeking help? Have they had death in their family, repeated other kind of challenges? And then grades are a big clue.

Janis Volker
All of a sudden you see a dip, or maybe you’re not going out for the sport you always used to get involved in and things like that. So I think as long as it doesn’t have to be the school counselor that reaches out, just any adult in the building that makes connections with students. Sometimes that’s the favorite person, the person who’s doing attendance in the main office. That’s their person that they connect with, that just says good morning every single day.

Sam Demma
I had a guidance counselor who supported me in all my post-secondary applications for college and university in the United States. We were trying to figure out the eligibility requirements as a Canadian who wanted to do a Division I scholarship in the United States. And she became someone that I felt very comfortable sharing things with over my high school experience. I know that oftentimes the administrator’s office or the guidance counselor’s office can be a little bit intimidating for a young person when they walk in the door. What are some ways you help calm people down and just let them know that they’re here to be supported and it is a safe space?

Janis Volker
You know, I think I have a friendly face, right? I like to smile, I like to laugh, but my first three words are usually, when a student walks in, “You’re not in trouble.”

Janis Volker
There’s this fear of, I got called to the office and I say, you know, we do a lot of things in here. We help with your schedule. You know, we talk about college. We talk about youth apprenticeships. Like, I don’t just call people in to say there’s a problem or there’s, you know, a concern. So just trying to, you know, get to know students in different ways in the building. So to make that connection that, you know, you have to do those conversations sometimes

Janis Volker
about dress code, and then you get that reputation. She’s going to tell you you’re wearing the wrong kind of shirt today.

Sam Demma
I just remember situations when I was in school and I got called down from class at the office and I was like, oh man, this is gonna be bad. I think that’s a really good way to start the conversation just to let a student know, you’re not in trouble, we’re here to help.

Sam Demma
How do you think you build a connection with a student to the point where they really look forward to chatting with you and trust the advice or trust the guidance?

Janis Volker
I always, I mean, I’m more of an introvert to be honest. So I’m not that person that’s out there, like the super fun cheerleader, but I’m more the quiet, always supportive, always there to listen and really ask you questions about, you know, your day or your struggles. Or I like to remember certain things about a student that I can bring up the next year. You know, like I remember this when we were in seventh grade

Janis Volker
and you were talking about the careers and you said you wanted to go into welding. You know, and then I see them pursue that as they get older in high school and comment on that, you know, so that they know I’m listening, I’m aware. You know, I wish I could do that more

Janis Volker
with every single person in the building, but I think that’s really, students really, really want to be cared for. That’s, I mean, don’t we all, but it’s really important.

Sam Demma
You must have a long list of notes from all these conversations.

Janis Volker
I do, yeah, somewhere in my head, but. And at this age, sometimes they lose us, but yeah. I think the intent to remember

Sam Demma
is already a phenomenal start. It forces us to, creates a forcing function for us to pay more attention when people are talking to us, as opposed to thinking about the past or the future, which is so easy these days. Question for you, do you, or can you share a story

Sam Demma
of a student who walked into the office that was very confused, very uncertain, very overwhelmed, and after a couple years and some guidance, you just were so proud of the young person they became. And you don’t have to share their name. And the reason I ask is because

Sam Demma
there’s an educator listening to this that may be a little bit overwhelmed, or even a guidance counselor that may be a little overwhelmed, and they may have lost sight as to why they do what they do and I think that these little stories of

Sam Demma
transformation are really at the heart of why most people get into the work

Janis Volker
They do with young people. So sure. So someone comes to mind a young man who really dealt with mental health and had a lot of family struggles a lot of there was a lot of death in the family. Just you know, there was poverty. There was a little bit of everything. And he missed a lot of school.

Janis Volker
And he would have moments where he just needed to take a break from class or he wouldn’t come to school just feeling overwhelmed. And I never felt like I was making a difference because when you’re listening, I always feel in their mind, they must be thinking, I still feel just as anxious or I still have this depression like things are, I mean, things progress much slower than we all want them to.

Janis Volker
But then his senior year, he, I got a letter from him. It was a really cool activity where the seniors get to pass out letters of people that they want to thank before they graduate. And when I received that, it was one of the most meaningful things, you know, in my career. Like, wow, because I’m not I’m not in front of students as much and more in this office. I try to be out and about, but I mean, teachers, I feel, get to build those connections on a deeper level with every student than maybe I do. And it just it meant the world to me that that I was able to help and that he recognized that.

Sam Demma
I just think about all the students who have walked in your office whose lives you’ve had an impact on but who haven’t written a letter. That’s what we hope. Yeah, that’s the… It’s so funny, I did a performance last week for a high school and the audio system was not great and they swapped out four mics in the first 30 minutes.

Sam Demma
I feel like the first 30 minutes, people didn’t even hear what I was saying. And we finished the performance and we had a good number of students still rush on over and ask questions and thank us and take photos. And in my heart, I was like,

Sam Demma
I could have reached more, you know, like this was a waste, we didn’t make a difference. And this one, like the setup was not great. And then, you know, we got home and the cameraman who was with me, Matias, was like, dude, there was a couple of students that I saw who were absolutely glued and locked in despite the audio challenges. I promise you it reached some young minds. And that’s all that matters, even if they hadn’t written that letter or written that message.

Sam Demma
And just this morning, it’s been a week, I got a message from a student that was like, hey, you came to the school last week and I just wanna let you know, our friends really enjoyed it and I was like, if this ain’t the universe, just like let me know.

Sam Demma
You know, like, stop being so critical and stop judging how other people are receiving it. Just show up and do your best. Like I think that’s something that I’ve tried to carry forward with me in everything that I do. Have you ever had any moments in your work where you questioned if like, oh, is this the right work for me to be doing? And if so, how did you get through some of those

Janis Volker
Moments? Yeah, I mean, definitely the mental health piece takes a toll. And I don’t know that I’m the best at self-care. I, you know, I can tell people like, oh, you need to do this and you should be exercising and a great diet. Make sure you get out in nature. And I’ve improved in that area by developing my own hobby of photography. That became something that I felt like just relieved stress like nothing else to just be outside and at sunrise. That’s all I need really to feel better. So I think just trying to be self-aware of you need, if I ever hit that point where I’m burned out, I need to release myself because you’re not helping anyone once you reach burnout. So I guess that’s something I always think about because I have thought about, well, what would I do if I did something else?

Janis Volker
And I still think it’d be helping people. It would just be in a different scene, maybe healthcare or something, but that’s always what I want to do.

Sam Demma
Was photography something you discovered earlier in your childhood or when did that come about for you?

Janis Volker
Just being in the house and I just started observing that stay at home order we had for a few months that first spring. And so I was working from home and at the dining table and I was surrounded by windows and I thought, all these birds come to my house during the day when I’m not here. Like, wow, this is really cool. And then I just, it kind of created this, you know, interest of mine, curiosity.

Janis Volker
And then I started taking pictures and then I kept getting different cameras and then I was hooked. And then I was taking pictures every single day. So it’s, yeah.

Sam Demma
A pipe recently burst in our basement bathroom and my dad had his friend, a subcontractor named Jimmy come over to fix it. And while we were in the bathroom, I was handing him tools, he was fixing it. He started telling me about the books he had bought that morning. Did you know that you can go to a thrift store and buy a book for 50 cents? I was like, yeah, I know, I know, because I used to buy a bunch from Value Village, and he’s like, Sam, I bought seven books for $3.

Sam Demma
I was like, this is awesome, man, I’m so glad you’re excited about books. And he told me about this one book called Who Moved My Cheese by a guy named Kenneth Blanchard and he’s a business slash management author and he gave me a very high level overview of the book that there’s these two mice and one is always waiting for the cheese and the other one is always like searching for it. And that to remain curious and to keep searching for things in life is such a beautiful way to live. And you said one of the things you realized from the book is that the mice that would wait for it just live the same life over and over again. Like everything about their day was exactly the same. Whereas the mouse that was searching or curious would take different paths and try, find the cheese down different roads.

Sam Demma
And isn’t that interesting? Like COVID changed up your routine. And instead of going to work, you stayed home. As a result, you saw these beautiful birds out the window and boom, a new passion for photography came to life. I think that remaining curious is so important, not only for students, but everybody. Trying the new restaurant, taking the different route home, looking out the window and pausing for a moment. I developed some passions during the pandemic. I’m curious, like, has photography remained a part of your life?

Sam Demma
Oh, yes. Do you take a lot of pictures? Like, tell me a little bit about it

Janis Volker
Yes, I do. And the last year I haven’t as much, which is funny, that the more I tried to get into selling it, the less I actually did it. And so that was a really good lesson of, wait, you need to keep that focus on your enjoyment, like what you, what relieves the stress, which is the whole point, you know, to have something so fun. And that what I like about photography is there’s, there’s no two sunrises that are identical, like everything.

Janis Volker
There’s just no two pictures are going to look the same, just because of all the different components. And that’s the same way I love my job here is you can never predict a day in the school. And it just keeps it kind of fresh, even though it’s the same office every day, it’s very different from day to day.

Sam Demma
In your 21 year career in education, have there been any colleagues or teachers who have walked into your office and said, hey Janis, can I ask you a question? Looking for guidance.

Janis Volker
Yeah, definitely. Especially, you know, with the loss. And loss by suicide is one that when we’re growing up, we don’t really, you know, it’s something that’s not really talked about. And people don’t feel comfortable asking someone when they’ve experienced that loss. You know, people tend to avoid the really uncomfortable conversations. So when someone’s experiencing that in their family for the first time, no matter the age, you need help. You need support. So I know definitely those are times too. And just we’re struggling with, you know, just having a rough time either in school or out of school just needing someone to listen?

Sam Demma
I ask because when we were all little babies, we very openly accepted failure and recognized it as a necessary thing. How many times will a baby fail before it learns to walk? As many times as it takes and we’ll cheer them on all the way.

Sam Demma
But then at a certain age, a child starts to believe that it’s not acceptable to make a mistake. It’s not acceptable to fail. And then I think as that child grows up and becomes an adult, there’s another unconscious belief that we start to carry that we can handle things on our own because we’re now big people.

Sam Demma
And it’s like, it’s okay to reach out for support and ask for help. And I just hope that if there’s an educator listening to this right now who’s struggling, that this little portion of this conversation encourages them to reach out and ask for it.

Sam Demma
So I appreciate you sharing that.

Janis Volker
Yes, thank you.

Sam Demma
If there is an educator listening to this or even a student and they are a little overwhelmed, what words of advice or encouragement would you offer them?

Janis Volker
I think, you know, it’s kind of, everyone says this, but chunking it out like one piece at a time, one day at a time. Let’s just focus on today. You know, what can you do today to relieve that stress? You know, can I can you get some help talking to the teacher that you need some help with that you don’t understand the assignment?

Janis Volker
Is there is there another student I can get, you know, to help you? Maybe we do need to call your mom right now and have this conversation and get this off your chest or sit down with a friend. I think just whatever you can do in this moment and not worry about fixing everything between now and three months from now. Let’s just get through today.

Sam Demma
Yeah, that’s a great way to look at it. If there is an educator listening to this and they just want to ask you a question or reach out, what would be the best way for them to get in touch or connect with you?

Janis Volker
Oh, I would say, you know, my school email, right? My school phone, hopefully those are all published on our website and that’d be great.

Sam Demma
Awesome. Jan, just keep taking photos.

Janis Volker
I Will. And you know, I wanted to tell you, I did just read your book and I think it’s fantastic. And one part that really stuck out for me was when you talked about for students, the five people that you surround yourself with. I was like, wow, that I really like how, because that is so true. We’re not saying you’re all going to make bad choices, but if the group you’re with is not doing things like you said to build you up, then they’re not, they’re not helping you get to your goal. So I appreciate you for sharing those types of tips because even though I’ve been in this business 21 years, I can always still learn and find new ways to help students.

Sam Demma
Well thank you for reading the book. You can’t get it at the thrift store for 50 cents unless someone drops it off there, so please don’t. I appreciate you taking the time to be here. I appreciate you reading the book. And I appreciate all the effort and energy you place into helping people, whether it’s teachers or students.

Sam Demma
You are making a serious difference. And I look forward to meeting you here soon.

Janis Volker
Yes, thank you. Two months, we get to see you in person here.

Sam Demma
I’m counting it down. All right, Janis, keep up the great work. And we’ll talk soon. And we’ll talk soon.

Janis Volker
Thanks, Sam.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Janis Volker

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

March 20, 2025 by Education Educator Student Leadership Student Success 0

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