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School Counsellor

Terry Jordens, Brooklyn Lund and Jasmine Lund – Three Passionate Educators in the Holy Family Catholic School Division

Terry Jordens, Brooklyn Lund and Jasmine Lund - Three Passionate Educators in the Holy Family Catholic School Division
About Terry Jordens, Brooklyn Lund and Jasmine Lund

Terry Jordens (@Holyfamilyrcssd) is the Superintendent of Student Services & Assessment for Holy Family RCSSD #140. Terry Jordens grew up in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and became a teacher, following in a long line of family footsteps in the field. Helping children is her passion. She took that passion on a trek and has taught in Canada, the United States and South Korea. Once she completed her Masters in Educational Administration, Terry took on the role where she currently operates as Superintendent for Holy Family RCSSD.

From her experience working abroad and locally, Terry knows that every mother considers their child their most precious commodity and that sometimes things get messy when you are working with people. Terry works hard to support families and children to get what they need by working through or around barriers and getting access to the right supports. Terry’s main goal is to create effective collaboration between the school and family by building trust and relationship – because the way she sees it, both sides are cheering for the same team.

Outside of the office Terry runs a mom-taxi service for her own personal children that takes regular routes to the hockey rink, soccer pitch, volleyball court and CrossFit gym. Terry and her family love to travel and hop on a plane whenever they can.

Connect with Terry: Email | Instagram | Linkedin | Twitter | Facebook

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Brooklyn Lund is a School Social Worker for Holy Family Roman Catholic Separate School Division. Brooklyn obtained her Bachelor of Social Work degree in April 2020, and had a couple temporary jobs before gaining employment as a School Counsellor. Brooklyn has been working for Holy Family since September 2021 and has enjoyed every minute of it. The thing she loves most about her job is supporting student’s and seeing them improve! it makes her smile when children are able to confide and trust in her. She couldn’t imagine a more perfect job!

Connect with Brooklyn: Email | Instagram | Facebook

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Jasmine Lund is a School Counsellor with the Holy Family School Division. Jasmine obtained her Social Work Degree with the University of Regina – Saskatoon Campus in April 2020. In January, 2022 Jasmine became apart of the Holy Family School Division and has truly found her passion working with kids. Jasmine is apart of 4 elementary schools this year and although it is busy, she enjoys every minute! She loves supporting the students and staff in the best way she can!

Connect with Jasmine: Email | Instagram | Facebook

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

Holy Family RCSSD #140

Masters of Education (M.Ed), Educational Administration – University of Saskatchewan

Faculty of Social Work – University of Regina

CrossFit Gym

SOS Signs of Suicide Prevention Programs

Not Myself Today – Canadian Mental Health Association

Allan Kehler – Mental Health Advocate

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:55):

Welcome back to another episode of the High Performing Educator podcast.

Sam Demma (00:59):

This is your host and youth speaker, Sam Demma. Today is a very special interview, because we don’t often do group settings. We have three guests joining us on the show today, all from the Holy Family School Board. Terry Jordens is the Superintendent of Student Services and Assessment at Holy Family. Terry grew up in Saskatoon, Saskatchewan and became a teacher following in a long line of family footsteps in the field. Outside of the office, Terry runs a mom taxi service for her own personal children that take regular routes to the hockey rink, soccer pitch, volleyball court, and CrossFit gym. She loves to travel and hop on a plane whenever she can. Guest number two from the Holy Family Roman Catholic Separate school division is Brooklyn Lund. Brooklyn obtained her Bachelor of Social Work degree in April, 2020, and today is a school counselor. She has been with Holy Family since 2021 and has enjoyed every minute of it.

Sam Demma (01:58):

She could not imagine a more perfect job. Our third guest from the Holy Family School division is Jasmine. Jasmine obtained her social work degree with the University of Regina Saskatoon campus in April, 2020. In 2022, she became a part of the Holy Family School division and has truly found her passion for working with kids. This year, she is a part of four elementary schools, and although it is busy, she enjoys it so, so much. I hope you enjoy this conversation with Terry, Brooklyn, and Jasmine, and I look forward to seeing you on the other side. Today we are joined by three guests, three guests at once. This is like a world record for the High Performing Educator podcast for number of guests altogether on the show at the same time. Instead of introducing them, I’m gonna allow them to each introduce themselves very quickly so over to you. Terry, maybe you can go first, <laugh>.

Terry Jordens (02:51):

Sure. So, hello, my name is Terry Jordans. I am the Superintendent of Student Services and Assessment here at Holy Family School Division. Holy Family, just for reference, is in the southeast corner of Saskatchewan, or a rural school division that runs schools in four different communities here.

Brooklyn Lund (03:12):

Hello, my name is Brooklyn Lund and I’m a school counselor for the Holy Family School Division. Hello, my name is Jasmine Lund, and I’m also a school counselor for the Holy Family School division.

Sam Demma (03:23):

And you’re twins?

Brooklyn Lund (03:25):

We are.

Sam Demma (03:26):

<laugh>. You can’t see them right now because you’re listening to this, but they look pretty similar. It’s pretty crazy. <laugh>, this is a very personal question. Everyone has a slightly different journey, but what got you into education? Like when did you realize growing up that education was the industry you wanted to work in, the vocation you wanted to pursue? Tell me a little bit about your journey and Brooklyn, maybe you could jump in and start.

Brooklyn Lund (03:54):

Sure. So what got me into the school is that I’ve always wanted to work with kids. I’ve always wanted to help people. Our helping profession is something that I knew from a young age that I would want to be involved with. So once a school counselor position had came up after I had convocated some social work, I had thought that yes, I should try and apply for that. So that’s kind of where it started, and then it just kind of blossomed from there. Fun fact, I always said I would never be a school counselor, and here I am. So I love it. So that’s that’s great.

Sam Demma (04:29):

That’s awesome. I love that. I think sometimes the things we least expect bring us the most joy, excitement, you know?

Brooklyn Lund (04:37):

Yeah, for sure.

Sam Demma (04:38):

Jasmine, what about, what about yourself? Did you follow in your sister’s footsteps or <laugh>?

Brooklyn Lund (04:42):

Yeah, sort of actually a position before I did. But then when another temporary position came up, I decided that I mean, Brooklyn loved it and we’re pretty similar in the fact that we both loved working with kids. so I decided that I’d apply as well. and yeah, I love the job and I think I found my passion.

Sam Demma (05:06):

Awesome. Thanks for sharing. Terry, what about you? What, what was your journey into education?

Terry Jordens (05:10):

Sure. Got you bet. So I, I’m a teacher by trade, so have my degree in teaching and educating and started off in working in early years education, moved into middle years. Thought that was completely terrifying until you get there and just realize they’re just little kids still. But for me, it’s all about it being hope filled. Like working with adults is messy. Sometimes they’re grumpy, they’re <laugh>, you know, there’s a lot going on with adults, but kids, like, there’s always that hope, there’s so excited about learning still they like their teachers, you know, it’s just that energy and there’s never a dull moment and it’s super cliche to say, but you know, kids are our future. So I’m really excited about working in this area and helping develop that.

Sam Demma (05:58):

I think the work you do is so important. All three of you. one of the past guests explained to me that he believed people that work with youth educators, people that work in schools they’re almost like superheroes who can look at a child and see 15, 20 years in that child’s future. Teach them skills now that are gonna like, impact them down the road. And I think back to the teachers I had in my life, they made such a significant impact on me. And whether you’re working directly in the classroom or just making decisions at a higher level that are gonna impact the classrooms, it’s so important. The work is so, so important. So thank you all three of you for doing what you’re doing. being that you work in the same division, I’m, I’m sure some of the challenges you face are similar, but I’m curious to know, like what are some of the challenges each of you face on a day to day basis or that are currently, you know, challenging you right now?

Brooklyn Lund (06:58):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think I can speak for that. one challenge that we kind of are struggling with are just behaviors. in general. lots of the kids that we do help about our experiencing those high, maybe aggressive or violent behaviors. so that’s always something that we’re striving to work on. another one that kind of goes in town with behaviors is like attendance. so we’re kind of faced with like a lot of kids that show up to school, not as often as we would like I should say. and then another one that we kind of thought of was struggles within families, not just kids. So I know that we do work primarily, primarily with kids, but that often like stems back to parents and families and things that they’ve been going through as well.

Sam Demma (07:57):

Hmm. Terry, Brooklyn, anything to add or does that do a great job of something you’d of <laugh>?

Brooklyn Lund (08:02):

I would say that’s like the top three kinda mm-hmm. <affirmative> struggles that we face or face with every day at the school. Definitely attendance, behavior kind of go hand in hand sometimes, but yeah, just some of those struggles that we have throughout the school. Mm-hmm.

Terry Jordens (08:17):

<affirmative>. And I think getting, you know, we’re always in schools, we’re always so worried, Oh, is the student doing their homework? Oh, did they get, you know, 90% on their math test? Like, we’re so focused on that as an education division of delivering that curriculum. But then you gotta think on the flip side, what are they experiencing at home? Did they just come from a traumatic night at their house? Did they eat breakfast this morning? Like, figuring out and working with those family dynamics I think is yeah, for sure. A lot of pressure and really tricky sometimes to support students in the right way when you’re not dealing with family units that are well either. Mm-hmm.

Brooklyn Lund (08:55):

<affirmative>. Yeah. And I think that’s why it’s super cool to have our positions in the things that we do because yeah, it’s an education division, but we get to come from a different perspective and kind get to learn about the kids in a different light than sometimes maybe the teachers mm-hmm. <affirmative> or other professionals would be. So that’s kind of why I like coming in from a different lens. So

Sam Demma (09:16):

Being that you work in different positions how do each of you in your own respective roles try and tackle some of these challenges?

Brooklyn Lund (09:24):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative> I can speak on that. So I guess with the tenants and behavior we do try to build relationships with the kids quite often, especially if they are having some of those challenging dynamics at home. there’s like things like attendance plans, behavior plans, support plans, safety plans. I’m implementing a couple of reward programs right now for kids that trying to get some incentive to come to school or to behave appropriately at school. and we would be doing some lots of communication with parents or supportive adults that they have in their home, trying to kind of keep that communication going through all different avenues to kind of have that big supportive team for that student instead of just one adult.

Sam Demma (10:10):

Nice. Love that. Terry, what about yourself?

Terry Jordens (10:13):

Yeah, so from the division level one of the important things we do is connections to community. So that school team, super important, but then also, you know, they’re only in school for six hours a day from September to June, right there, there’s a lot of life outside of that <laugh>. So making it more of a community support plan. Right. So at my level, we, we go to like interagency meetings with our local mental health and our psychologists in the area to make sure that we have a network and we know how to support in that way and have the right connections in that way, you know. And we also have things like an Envision counseling, which is like a private sort of counseling service in our community. So we make connections with them too. So making sure that it’s not just a school thing, that we’re supporting the kids and the families and with whatever means we can in our communities, which is sometimes challenging cause we’re rural, right? So a lot of times those things are in the big city. So we, we do our best to make those relationships.

Sam Demma (11:15):

Awesome. speaking about relationships, how do you think you build a solid relationship? Like a trusting relationship with a young person? Like in your experiences, how, like how does that happen? What does that look like?

Brooklyn Lund (11:31):

I would say consistency is big. word that I like to use someone or for kid to have a trusting adult, but who’s there for them all the time consistently. yeah, they can have some trusted adults that come in and outta their lives, but someone who’s consistent and reliable would definitely be a huge factor in building that trusted relationship with them.

Sam Demma (11:55):

Hmm. Consistency being like showing up every day, even when, you know, you don’t feel like it, they’re counting on you to be there kind of thing.

Brooklyn Lund (12:03):

Correct, Yeah. And even the minor things, getting to know their birthday, wishing them a happy birthday, getting to know what they’re doing on the weekend, asking how their week went, like all those little consistency things that you can do to build that relationship to get to know them even better so they can start to have that relationship and trust in you mm-hmm.

Terry Jordens (12:22):

<affirmative> and stopping and taking that time, right? Like for so busy throughout the day and you’ve got an 8 million things to do, but like stopping when the kid’s like, Hey, look at this’s cool thing that I did last night. You know? Yeah. Like stopping, pausing, taking the time to do that. Mm-hmm.

Brooklyn Lund (12:36):

<affirmative>. Yeah, I think that often shows too that, that you actually do genuinely care about the child and they’re not just a part of your caseload or just another student on the team or on the school board. but yeah, just like them getting to know that you actually do wanna know and show that effort is there

Terry Jordens (12:59):

Yeah. Cause they can tell like if you

Brooklyn Lund (13:01):

Really, like, they

Terry Jordens (13:02):

Know

Brooklyn Lund (13:04):

For sure. Yeah. And I think sometimes people like try, it’s almost like over the top to like be almost not as genuine as as what, just kind of having, treating them as a regular kid and showing up for them when they need you.

Sam Demma (13:18):

Yeah. I I, I, I think when I think back to what I was always looking for as a student as well, it was like I just wanted the teacher’s time. I was like, you know, when I have a, when I have a question or I come to your desk, I just wanna feel like you’re present with me and you’re, you know, you’re, you’re hearing me and you’re seeing me. And I think so often, like, you know, you hit it all in the nail. It’s like you need to be consistent, you need to be curious about the person, you know, behind the student. Some of the teachers who had the biggest impact on me would teach a lesson and then look at me and say, Sam, because you wanna be a pro soccer player, for you this lesson means X and kaon because you wanna be a fashion designer for you this means X and Olivia, because you’re passionate about movies, for you, this means x and Brooklyn because you have no interest in becoming a school counselor.

Sam Demma (14:08):

For you this means x <laugh>. It’s like, once you get to know the person you’re curious about them, you can really make the learning applicable to them. And that is just so much easier for them to buy in and actually want to be there. those are the types of teachers that give me hope. You know, the teachers that really care about what they’re doing, the educators that care and that are curious and, and that are consistent. I’m curious personally what gives each of you hope and inspires you to keep moving forward when things are a little bit difficult, when the caseload feels overwhelming and, and it seems like the weight of the world is resting on your shoulders.

Brooklyn Lund (14:48):

I would say first maybe the first thing I think about is a student that I had supported in my first couple of months of being a school counselor. he was, come, came from a, a troubled home and he didn’t have the best supports in place, but he showed up to school every day. And when I, it was a transition between two different months. I had, was there the last couple days of the month and then I hadn’t had a chance to put my new calendar on for the next month yet. And he had come to school that day and realized it had been a new month and I had not my calendar up there. And he was not happy that, that my cal my calendar wasn’t updated cuz he didn’t know that week of when I was gonna be at his school. So I think I often think about that kid. he had a huge impact on me. He made sure, even though I wasn’t gonna see him some days, he’d still come in and check in and say hi. and we still have had some communication since when I see him out in the community and things like that, just that special bond that we’ve had and he continues to grow and it’s, it’s super awesome. So I think that’s kind of my motivator that I was blessed with very early on.

Sam Demma (16:07):

Mm. Those, those stories of impacting a young person, I think are consistent among every person who works in education. Like that’s why you do what you do, you wanna make a difference, right? So what a good story to remind you to stay hopeful. Terry, Jasmine, what about you guys?

Terry Jordens (16:28):

Do you wanna go? Sure.

Brooklyn Lund (16:29):

Okay. I think one thing that gives me hope is just knowing that we have such an awesome team among all of us. that includes like Brooklyn, Becky, Terry and then even with like our principals and other professionals that are in the building I think we work really well together with our close little knit counseling team. and yeah, it just gives us hope to keep going since we do all get along so well. And being the newest one part of the team I think they’ve also taught me a lot and it makes my journey something that I even look forward to more in the future. So yeah,

Sam Demma (17:10):

Be because you got a twin too, when you’re not feeling up for it, you just, you know, you just send 10 your sister and tell her to change her hair just a little bit.

Brooklyn Lund (17:18):

<laugh>

Sam Demma (17:21):

Terry, what keeps you, what keeps you

Terry Jordens (17:23):

Hopeful? for me, hope really is the attitude that I’m seeing in our students at school around the areas of like diversity and inclusion. Like it really is different now. You know, like kids are accepting, they, you know, have open minds. Like when I hear my own, I have a teenage daughter when I hear her and I’m not gonna say what grandpa said at the table, but I’m saying, Grandpa, you can’t say that anymore. Like, this is how we talk now. Like, that’s the part I love. Like that is hopeful and that keeps me going knowing that we’re doing the right things and we’re teaching our kids in the right way to be more inclusive, to be positive, to be accepting of everybody. So that’s really positive.

Sam Demma (18:07):

Brooklyn started answering this question by sharing a story about how a student was impacted by the work in a school. can you maybe share a story that comes to mind for you Jasmine and Terry about how you saw the work in education impact a young mind who maybe was really struggling and then had a transformation or had a realization or really grew because of the support of staff and teachers and the school environment?

Brooklyn Lund (18:39):

Yeah, I can speak on that. so one program that we did last year throughout the schools was sos So it’s like signs of suicide. we went into every school and presented a presentation on the signs of suicide. And it was about a couple days after we were done presenting at one of the schools and a girl who was in grade eight came into my office and really explained why she thought her friend was suicidal. And I was just, after that conversation I realized that, that that program really did have an impact in her class because she was really scared for her friend’s life. And I think just realizing that even though it may take us a long time to prepare or things like that, that it was really worth it to do it in those classrooms because even if it was with one, only one kid that did mention her friend’s life, then it was a win in our books because that is also something that we yeah, we’re happy with that we were able to help that student. So

Sam Demma (19:49):

Program could literally save a life, you know, that’s

Brooklyn Lund (19:53):

Exactly more awareness I think. And students had age too. I mean some of them are more aware than others, but I think just bringing that program to all the classes was a really good idea for us. So.

Sam Demma (20:10):

Awesome. Terry, what about yourself?

Terry Jordens (20:12):

Yeah so another program that we did implement last year was not myself today, so it’s the through the Canadian Mental Health Association. Nice. So that’s like a workplace wellbeing for staff. So we sort of implemented that all the way from like our board level all the way down through the schools. All our teachers, ea, janitors, bus drivers, we all kind of took part in it. And the really cool thing that I liked when I did it with like our senior administration here and our board was actually stopping and taking the time to talk about mental health and wellbeing with the adults here. Like we’re always so busy, you know, the kids programs and putting budget in for the kids, for us to stop and like check our own wellbeing and, and spend, It was honestly like maybe half an hour every month, but whatever time we could carve out and just sit together and actually make it like, not cliche to talk about it and bring up topics that were hard and some of the stresses and stuff that we were experiencing here. Cause it was, it’s been it’s been years, you know, a couple years of tough work in education and all over the world with the pandemic, but just dealing with all the change and things that we had to go through, it was hard. So it was a really nice program to allow that opportunity for us. So we sell lots of benefits with that.

Sam Demma (21:31):

Can you share the, the name one more time?

Terry Jordens (21:33):

Sure. It’s called Not Myself Today.

Sam Demma (21:35):

Not Myself Today. Cool.

Terry Jordens (21:37):

Yeah. Yeah.

Brooklyn Lund (21:38):

I would say too, the one other thing that I think about is Alan Keller, but we had him a mental health advocate and speaker very engaging, a very cool approach to how he presents to his students in his audiences. we had him present to our students and our parents and the teachers got part of it too. So that was super cool. I think he had a very positive impact on our students. days later we were seeing him or students wear his bracelet that he sent out to students. We’ve heard students talk about it quite often after that presentation was done. So that was a cool impact that he had on our students too. I think too, the parents were mm-hmm <affirmative> really supportive of that. The ones that did come to his video call were shocked by him. Like they, they really loved him. So I think that was a, a lot of good feedback for

Sam Demma (22:31):

Us. I love my born resilient t-shirt, <laugh> <laugh>, Shout out to Alan. Allen’s phenomenal at what he does and he has some great resources and books. you know, one of the mistakes that I make as a working professional, it doesn’t matter if you’re an education or whatever career path you choose something that I do when I see often is burn myself out. Like I work so hard and I put other people at the center of my focus instead of my wellbeing and next thing you know, I’m getting blisters in my mouth cause I’m not sleeping and I forgot to drink water for eight hours and I didn’t eat enough food. And, and it just becomes this cycle and you’re all smiling cuz you’re like, damn, this sounds like me sometimes <laugh>. I’m curious through your journey in education, it could be related to your own wellbeing, it could also be related to your work. what are some mistakes you made that you think are worth sharing? And the reason I ask is because I think if we spend time analyzing some of the mistakes we made, they’re actually learnings not only for ourselves but also for anyone else.

Terry Jordens (23:36):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Well, one of the things that I learned probably the hard way in taking this kind of leadership role is top down decision making does not work. <laugh>, you know, you think it’s a great idea and you, you know, you try to put it out there and some things just, they just don’t fly that way if people don’t buy into it, but it doesn’t mean anything to them. If they’ve got no skin in the game, it falls flat. So really having relationship based leadership, making collaborative decisions is all something that we really focus on here. I mean, we’re a small, like we’re a small school division mm-hmm. <affirmative>, so as many brains as we can get into the decisions and directions is always a more positive approach. So definitely mistakes in that kind of thinking.

Sam Demma (24:25):

Yeah. Collaboration’s key. I love it. Yeah, Good learning. Good learning.

Terry Jordens (24:29):

Yeah.

Brooklyn Lund (24:30):

What I would say is probably sometimes I get too invested into the families or to how to support them. sometimes I’m feel, or looking back now I realize that I’m putting almost too much effort into, into a family that I wanna help so much. And sometimes I have to realize that we are there to support in a certain way and, and that’s as far as we can go. some things are out of our control, so just trying to minimize that as much as possible to kind of save that burnout too.

Sam Demma (25:01):

Awesome. Thanks for sharing.

Brooklyn Lund (25:03):

I think just being a new school counselor, I thought coming into this job I would have everything scheduled, organized things like that. But you realize real fast that each day is different and just because one thing worked one day doesn’t mean it’s gonna work for you the next day. So I think just realizing that the best practice would just be like a flexible thinker and yeah, roll with the punches, roll the punches. Especially with

Terry Jordens (25:33):

This <laugh>,

Sam Demma (25:34):

My, one of my mentors would always quote Mike Tyson and Mike used to say everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face. <laugh>. It’s like, that’s

Brooklyn Lund (25:46):

Very true.

Sam Demma (25:46):

It’s so true. Like, I’m gonna go in there, I would do xyz and then you hop in the ring and it’s like B and you’re like, now what? You know, <laugh> like plan goes out the window and you definitely gotta roll with the punches. yeah, that’s great advice. On the topic of advice if you could take your experience working in education and as a new counselor, I know this is like, you know, it might be a shorter period of time for two of you and Terry might have more of a breath of experience. <laugh>, I’m not saying she’s old, I’m saying she’s alive. I’m saying she’s a veteran in the game. if you could travel back in time but retain the experiences and knowledge you’ve gained what would you tell yourself on the first day on the job as advice? Not because you wanna change your path, but because you thought it would be helpful to have heard this advice the day you started this work.

Terry Jordens (26:41):

Wow, okay. Well first of all, all sign me up for that person. I wanna go back to

Sam Demma (26:46):

<laugh>.

Brooklyn Lund (26:47):

I know now.

Terry Jordens (26:49):

I would definitely tell myself one day at a time. That’s it. That’s all you need to think about right now is what you’re going through today, what you need to work on today, and do not spend time worrying about tomorrow, next week. Other things you have to do. Yeah, definitely compartmentalize and just focus on the now.

Sam Demma (27:10):

I love that. Cool.

Brooklyn Lund (27:12):

I would probably say it’s okay to say no <laugh>, I’ve learned that the hard way right now, but we are trying to be super eager and supportive and for the staff and students, but sometimes we have lots of things going on, so it is okay to say no or even I’ll get it to it in a couple days. It doesn’t need to be done right now.

Sam Demma (27:32):

Yeah, not right now.

Brooklyn Lund (27:34):

There we go.

Sam Demma (27:35):

Set boundaries. Love it.

Brooklyn Lund (27:37):

I think too, just telling myself that we will get through it because just like this week we’ve had a hard week one of us being out right now too, so, but I feel like with our small supportive team, we always do get through it, so and there’s always a light at the end of the tunnel, so Yeah.

Sam Demma (27:56):

Becky, we miss you, Becky.

Sam Demma (28:02):

That’s awesome. okay. Thank you all so much for taking the time to hop on the podcast. 30 minutes has already flown by. I feel like we’ve had a great conversation and I really appreciate each of your time and energy. But more importantly, your enthusiasm for the work that you’re doing to try and make a difference in the lives of kids. if someone wants to reach out to you what would be the best way for them to get in touch and maybe instead of all sharing individual emails, we could just share one and then like disperse the information if someone does reach out, <laugh>.

Terry Jordens (28:32):

Sure, you bet. So our probably email is the best. We do have a, a small amount of social media goes on, probably email, but our school division is a Holy family, Roman Catholic School division. Honestly, if you google that, my email address is on the website. Cool. And they’re all on there, so that’s the best way. Yeah.

Sam Demma (28:50):

Awesome. Perfect. Any final words for the educators who are listening to this right now before we hop off? these are obviously people that, well, maybe you’ve met some of them but most of them are total strangers right now. Might be a difficult time. Maybe they’re ending a difficult week. and you just want to give them like a couple words of wisdom or advice, <laugh>

Brooklyn Lund (29:12):

Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I guess I would say roll the punches and then hey, light at the end of the tunnel. So those would be my advice and each week is a new week, so I think that even though you have a difficult week this week, that next week’s completely different. So I’m sure it’ll be positive next week too. So yeah.

Terry Jordens (29:30):

Nice. And we got this. Everything is solvable. Everything we can move on from, we got this, we’re in this together, is really how we see things here.

Brooklyn Lund (29:39):

For sure.

Sam Demma (29:40):

Awesome. Terry, Jasmine, Brooklyn and Becky and Spirit, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I appreciate all of you so much and I hope you continue to do amazing work and enjoy every moment of it.

Speaker 5 (29:52):

Perfect. Thanks Sam.

Sam Demma (29:56):

I believe that educators deserve way more recognition, which is why I’ve created the High Performing Educator Awards. In 2022, 20 educator recipients will be shortlisted, each of whom will be featured in local press. invited to record an episode on the podcast, and spotlighted on our platform. In addition, the one handpicked winner will be presented with an engraved plaque by myself. I will fly to the winner’s city to present this to them and ask that they participate in a quick photo shoot and interview on location. The coolest part, nominations are open right now, and they close October 1st, 2022. So please take a moment to apply or nominate someone you know or work with that deserves this recognition. You can do so by going to www.highperformingeducator.com/award. We can never recognize educators enough.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Terry Jordens, Brooklyn Lund and Jasmine Lund

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

November 7, 2022 by School Counsellor Social Worker Superintendent Teachers Teaching Tips 0

Tali Aziza M.S.W., R.S.W. – School Counsellor at Netivot HaTorah Day School

Tali Aziza M.S.W., R.S.W. - School Counsellor at Netivot HaTorah Day School
About Tali Aziza

Tali is a Registered Social Worker who works at a Modern Orthodox Jewish Day School in Thornhill Ontario. She works specifically with students in Pre-Nursery through to Grade Three providing one on one counselling, consultative services and social-emotional learning program development and implementation.

Tali earned her Bachelor of Arts Degree at IDC in Herzliya, Israel. She then completed her certification in holistic nutrition through The Institute of Holistic Nutrition in Toronto and then her Master of Social Work at Wurzweiler School of Social Work in New York.   

Connect with Tali: Email | Linkedin

Listen Now

Listen to the episode now on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on your favourite podcast platform.

Resources Mentioned

The Zones of Regulation (SEL resource)

Netivot Hatorah Day School

The Ruler Program (SEL resource)

YALE Center for Emotional Intelligence

The Transcript

**Please note that all of our transcriptions come from rev.com and are 80% accurate. We’re grateful for the robots that make this possible and realize that it’s not a perfect process.

Sam Demma (00:01):
Tali welcome to the high-performing educator podcast. Huge pleasure to have you on the show here today. Why don’t you start by introducing yourself and sharing a little bit about what brought you to the work you’re doing today with young people?


Tali Aziza (00:13):
First of all, thank you so much for having me on I’m so excited to be talking to you today. So I am a registered social worker. I sort of came to my work now in schools through it, wasn’t always my, my path to end up in the school system. Really, I started, I did my undergraduate degree in psychology. I always knew I wanted to work with children. But more specifically at the time I wanted to work with children with eating disorders. So after my undergrad degree I went and did my degree in holistic nutrition. So I became a certified holistic nutritionist with the goal of combining the two together and working in eating disorders. I started my masters of social work and did my placements my first one in the school system and my second one really specializing in eating disorders.


Tali Aziza (01:07):
And then after graduating, I really, I tried out a little bit of different things, but I really found that I loved working in schools. And the reason being is that you get the opportunity to work with such a wide variety of different presentations and, and different kids dealing with different things. And what’s really neat about being in the school system is you really get to be on the front lines and really have a very strong impact. I find on the kids that you’re working with. So I didn’t land working specialized with eating disorders. I sort of work from a more holistic perspective. But I do feel that the work ties in because we get to work from a preventative model. And, and even in the work that I do, I try and interweave making sure that we’re doing all the protective factors to ensure that people have healthy, strong relationships with food moving forward, but also are, you know, protective from anxiety and things like, like that as they grow older.


Sam Demma (02:06):
Can you take us back to your first experience working in a school setting and explain kind of how you fell in love with working in a school?


Tali Aziza (02:17):
So what’s interesting about my, my position in the work that I do is I work really with very young kids. And so from a social work perspective, it, it almost seems like a little counterintuitive. The youngest age group I work with are kids who are, you know, 18 months almost. And I work with the kids up until grade three. So when I started, I, I, in hindsight, like I was completely sort of out of my comfort zone working with kids who are so young is not really something that you get a lot of experience with in, in social work school. But immediately I saw how we had the opportunity or I had the, to become part of the framework of the school. So right immediately, like first day you’re, you’re not locked up in your office as this like very fancy formal school social worker. You’re really in the hallways, in the classrooms out on recess duty, welcoming the kids as they come into will. And so you get the ability to like sort of infuse some of this social and emotional support into the school day in so many different ways. And then the added bonus is it’s, it’s wonderful working with kids who are, who are younger, you get to it’s so gratifying and it’s, so they’re so sweet and, and welcoming of any sort of interventions or anything like that. So that’s been really positive too.


Sam Demma (03:44):
And tell me more about your journey into social work as a profession. Did you know, growing up that you wanted to be a social worker or what led you down that path?


Tali Aziza (03:54):
So it’s an interesting question. I always knew I wanted to work with children. I, and after finishing my degree in psychology, I was looking into a master’s in psychology, but really with a master’s in psychology, you almost sort of need to go down the road of a PhD to be able to really do the work that I wanted to do. And then my dad actually said to me, one day, he said, like, I think you’re over complicating things here. What’s the end goal. And let’s think about up the most direct route you can take to get there. And so my end goal was I wanna work with children. I wanna support children, social and emotional wellbeing. And the most direct route was through a master’s in social work. Because that really allows you to be on the ground, working with kids, doing the work. And you know, maybe some of the other things are, you know, come into play later down the road, but that was like the most direct route to get me to my end goal. So it really, it really never had to do with social work per se. It was always more about working with children.


Sam Demma (04:53):
Cool. And what do you find are some of the challenges that students are faced with? I mean, you probably see them before most people do. You might even be the first adult in a young child’s life to hear a challenge before they even tell a parent or a family member, what are some of the common challenges that you’re seeing in young kids and how do you as a caring adult support those challenges and those young, those young learners and human beings?


Tali Aziza (05:20):
So it differs, I mean, you, you see different things at different age groups. So really when you’re talking about really, really young kids a lot of the times you’ll see more of the behavioral or the social side of things. So you’ll be, might, you might be seeing more tangible, like outbursts tantrum, like behavior some social, some signs like that. But as you work with children and as they get older, you start to see different things coming out. So I work with up to grade three. So as you approach the grades you start, you do start to see a lot more of the anxiety, be it social anxiety generalized anxiety things like that. More, more social issues coming out. Self-Esteem issues, things like that. And this has all been of course, really complicated by the pandemic also.


Tali Aziza (06:14):
And one of the things that I spent a lot out of time worrying about when we first transitioned to being in lockdown and being online is that for a lot of these kids, these are really pivotal years and nobody has eyes on these children. So be it from, you know, whatever perspective, but sometimes when you’re living with your kid day in and day out, you don’t know necessarily notice some of the things that might be going on for them. It’s important for them to be in a school setting, to have different people with different perspectives, looking out for your kids. So that’s, that’s a big thing. And, and now we are seeing, I mean, I do, I do find that we do see more anxiety kids struggling more socially, definitely struggling more academically, which plays into all of the social and emotional stuff as well.


Tali Aziza (07:01):
So where I come in and you ask, like, what do we do about it? It of course differs from kid to kid, but really I think that the most powerful work that, that I do in that the department does is really being an advocate and a cheerleader for these kids. I think going into school every, every day. And knowing that you have someone in the building who is on your team, no matter what they want you to do. Well, you know, I, I have kids come in and they’ll sit in my office for a few minutes and even just color and talk. There’s not any huge social work intervention happening, but just knowing that there’s somebody there who cares about you, you have a space to go. If you, you know, if you’re feeling really overwhelmed or you have a fight with a friend, or you’re just not feeling great that day I think really makes a huge difference. And I don’t think it needs to be big or fancy or, you know, super well researched interventions, I think. And even, you know, for, for you and I like growing up in a different time, we didn’t necessarily have that. And so having someone that, you know, is there for you in the building, like just that in and of itself, I think is really impactful.


Sam Demma (08:11):
It’s not like you have some grade one walking into your office and you hand them this white sheet of paper with check boxes on it. And you’re like, put you diagnose yourself and that’s correct. Check off your problem, or right. It sounds like you’re more focused on building relationships. Mm-Hmm and really showing that these students, that you care about them as human beings. Mm-Hmm how do you think you build that relationship? Obviously, accessibility is a big thing, like being accessible and having this space open, but once they enter the space, how do you go about building their relationships and ensuring these young kids know you are on their team?


Tali Aziza (08:47):
Right. So it really starts so much even before they come into the office. Mm-Hmm , and what’s really neat about being able to be in a school system. And, and the school that I work in is that there really is no stigma around going to see the social worker. We call, call ourselves the school counselor to make it a little bit more friendly. But like I mentioned before, you know, I’m outside on the playground every day, when the kids come in, I agree, read them outside. I’m outside on recess duty. I’m very visible within built into the framework of the school. So they don’t see me as like someone you go to when you have a quote unquote problem or something like that. And, and we often joke that we sometimes have the opposite issue that like, after recess, everyone wants to come speak to the school counselor cuz you know, someone took my ball or this or that.


Tali Aziza (09:38):
Which is amazing because there’s really no stigma around it. So it starts in the hallways. It starts in creating that rapport in, in the safe spaces that the kids are comfortable in. And then the other important piece of it, which can get sometimes a little tricky in a school based setting is I’m really careful to really distinguish between discipline and social work. Mm. Which can be tricky because sometimes the kids that you’re dealing with, you know, can struggle from both angles. Right. And so they, there might be a discipline component and there’s a social and emotional component, but it’s really important that I’m not the, the discipline in person. Because then the kids will shut down and won’t wanna relate or talk to me. So it’s really important that I stay neutral from that perspective. And then once the kid comes in the room and, and you know, you don’t have any negative association from anything else beyond that point.


Tali Aziza (10:36):
It really, at first from kid to kid, I like to find out what the kids like to do. And, and you know, the first few sessions, I really just focus on building a relationship because if there’s no relationship there, then the rest of the work won’t land, it won’t work. So depending on the kid and what their interests are, we do different sort of things to ensure that we’re building that relationship. And from there that like sort of lays the foundation for all the other things, to be able to permeate so much better.


Sam Demma (11:04):
I love that. And there’s definitely an educator listening right now who loves the ideas you’re sharing, but does not have a social worker in their school currently. Mm-Hmm how would you apply these same mindsets for an educator or a classroom teacher? Or do you have any tips for like a, just a classroom teacher on how they could use some of these same ideas to help their own students if they don’t have a social worker in their school and not, not that they can be the teacher and the social worker that’s not possible, but maybe there’s some mindsets or some ideas that they could use in their, in their classrooms when situ arise.


Tali Aziza (11:40):
Oh, sorry. I just cut out for a second. That’s okay. Absolutely. I think first of all, it doesn’t need to be a social worker. I think the biggest gift that the students have coming into the building is the teachers themselves. They have the most impact on the children. And the biggest thing the teachers can do is ensure that each and every child feels seen and recognized by the teachers. So something that I know that within my school, but in general teachers have been more cognizant of in recent years is, is how we greet students. Ah so for example, instead of the kids rushing into the classroom and the teacher standing at the front of the room and saying, okay, things away, take out your books. You know, we have the teachers, a lot of teachers standing outside the classroom and looking at each kid as they come in and saying their name and saying, hi, how are you or giving them a smile or even giving the kids the opportunity to do that to each other, just creating that like one small moment in a day where the kid is looked at and feels seen and recognized and genuinely cared about.


Tali Aziza (12:42):
We never know what’s going on for these kids at home. And so that one small moment could be huge. That could be all they’re getting in their day. So not to underestimate the power that you have. And, and I know that isn’t time, there, there is no time as a teacher it’s, you can’t make it appear from nowhere, but in those transitions, in those moments and then something that we’ve created that, that my school has taken on is something where we carve out time every day to address the social and emotional needs of our student. So there’s 15 minutes, there’s supposed to be 15 minutes with each teacher we’re dual curriculum school. So in the morning and in the afternoon where they take time to check in and find out how the kids are doing either, or they, you know, something as simple as talking about recessing kids, giving a thumbs up or thumbs down some sort of a reflect or carving out time just to do some sort of social and emotional learning anything like that, but even in just creating that space and opening that door to talking about feelings and things like that for some kid that could signal to them, okay, this is someone that I can open up to.


Tali Aziza (13:53):
And it doesn’t need to be big ways or in, you know, in fancy ways or in taking time to meet with every student, you can’t do that as a teacher. But there all are small things. Something else that I’ve done in the past that I think is, is really amazing to do if you have the time or the resources is journaling with students. So it it’s amazing because it gets students also working on their writing working on their thought and idea formation. But it is also a really nice way to build relationships with students. So you can give a prompt, give a question and then have students write their response and you don’t need to answer every single student every single time, but each time you can go through and write a response to some of the students and, you know, maybe ask them a little bit more. And then through this journaling exercise, which can become part of the framework and the structure of your class you’re, you’re first of all, tackling so many things you’re tackling, you know, you’re giving space to gratitude. You’re giving space to mindfulness, you’re giving space to relationship formation, but through all of those things, you can also be opening the door for kids to be able to confide in you or share with you if they need to.


Sam Demma (15:06):
It sounds like all these activities lend themselves like creating a safe space or a space where there’s more communication mm-hmm . Do you have any tools, resources, fun games that you’ve leveraged or used when it comes to mindfulness, social, emotional learning or even things that have helped you learn more about the topic that you think teachers or other social workers might find helpful?


Tali Aziza (15:30):
Mm-Hmm yeah, so there’s, so you don’t have to reinvent the wheel. There’s really great, well research programs out there for all of these things. So for example, the zones of regulation program is a great program. It was developed by an OT and it’s a great program that’s aimed at teaching children, how to identify their feelings, label their feelings and what to do to maneuver through their feelings in a comfortable and expected, appropriate way. So there’s a whole program that exists around that it’s very well researched, very well founded, and the, it, it’s not complicated or hugely costly. You buy the book, it comes with the CD and there’s a lot of information about it widely available online as well. Another program similar to that is the social thinking program that has books and, and all sorts of follow up activities that can really guide you in, in relating this conversation and bringing it in there’s something similar called the ruler program.


Tali Aziza (16:29):
Some of these are more expensive and, and more complicated to, to take off than others. But the zones is a really easy one to start with. The other thing is, is that there’s a lot of really great literature out there. And by literature, I mean like books for the kids themselves. Cool. So, and, and what’s really great now is you don’t need to go out and necessarily buy all of these books. They have so many read alouds on YouTube. So just even knowing some of the books that are really great for bringing up that conversation, teaching kids about their emotions. And, and that’s the important piece is we have to teach them. We can’t just assume that they know, right. So a lot of kids feel anger, but they don’t know that that’s to anger. They just know it’s a really uncomfortable feeling in their body.


Tali Aziza (17:17):
Mm-Hmm so there’s an education piece that has to come into play here too. And there’s a lot of great books that do just that. So for example, the color monster is an amazing book that can be adopted to different ages and teaches about that. And there’s for sure many read, read aloud for that on the you to yeah. So that’s the great, those are great things to do. The other thing that I like to tell teachers to do is we like to, we like to tell students that, you know, at times they need to be calm or they need to, they need a break or to calm down, but we can’t just assume that kids know what it looks like and what it feels like to calm down. We have to practice that with them. Mm. So even just taking five minutes in a day and having like five minutes of mindfulness time, you can put on some relaxing music, you can have some mindfulness come coloring sheets. You can have time to take a book. You can have time to write in a journal, but all of these things, they need practice with getting into that state to be able to then access it when they need it. We can’t just go about the hustle and bust of our day all the time, and then expect that kids know how to calm down when they’re told to calm down.


Sam Demma (18:27):
Yeah. That’s such a good, that’s such a good piece of advice, even for parents. Like, because I know that like teachers, a parent often tells their child calm down or stop doing this or do that. And like, yeah, a kid might be totally confused as to what that looks like. And you know, they’re not gonna sometimes listen to your words, but they’re gonna follow what you are doing. And if you’re screaming at them to calm down, kinda goes against the whole thing you’re asking them to do.


Tali Aziza (18:55):
Right. And then if they don’t know what to do, then that’s frustrating and that can further contribute to whatever behavior you’re already seeing. So I like to tell parents very often I tell parents to like model calm and to practice calm. So take five minute. It and, and sometimes even just as you come in the door after school is a great time and it’s important for whatever their calming activity is to be something they can access independently. Mm-Hmm , if it’s something that they need a lot of support with, it’s less likely that that’s gonna be effective in the moment that it’s needed. But if you have a space that’s, and it doesn’t need to be, be designated to calm as in nothing else happens there, that’s not feasible for most people, but a space that’s associated with a calming activity. You practice that calming activity, they get comfortable with accessing it independently. It’s gonna be much more effective in the moment.


Sam Demma (19:45):
That’s awesome. And examples, you mentioned, if you journaling mind for, with some music, there’s also so many great apps. There’s an app literally called calm mm-hmm, , there’s an app called the Headspace or insight timer. If you wanted to introduce your students to meditation or some form of mindfulness, mm-hmm, , the list just goes on and on. I’m sure you could find videos and even guided meditations or guided mindfulness act activities on YouTube. Mm-hmm . Uthese are all very cool things to implement. What do you think is one or a few of the opportunities that exist in education today, or, I, I know there’s a bunch of challenges that have come along with COVID that’s very clear and obvious, but on the other side, what do you think some of the opportunities are?


Tali Aziza (20:30):
Hmm. I think that’s a, that’s an interesting question. I think we spend so much time talking about yeah. What, you know, how it set us back in so many ways. I think in, in some ways, access to resources is, is changing. And for some people it’s, it’s easier. And for some people it’s harder. So for example, you know, there’s therapists now who are meeting with kids online, so that might make therapy more accessible to some kids OT, more accessible to some kids. It also hinders the process in a lot of ways too. So that’s a whole, whole Def different conversation. I think that the time at home has really allowed parents to get to know their children. Mm-Hmm . And so I think that as educators and I’m sure a lot of educators would feel this way. A lot of times we’re trying to help parents see some of the things that we’re seeing at school and what’s come as a result of the time at home is that a lot of parents, you know, are really seeing it.


Tali Aziza (21:28):
And I know specifically that year where we transitioned from being totally in school to being fully blindsided by all of this and then being at home, I, I know, and I suspect that globally, a lot of parents were calling teachers and saying, oh my goodness, I, I see it now. Like I get what you were telling me. I didn’t know it before. So I think there is this awareness and there’s partnership that comes from parents re really being part of the classroom, you know, be really being the ones who are, are spearheading it in a lot of ways. So there’s, first of all, an added appreciate that I think always needed to be there for the incredible work that teachers are doing. And that with that has come greater partnership and greater awareness from the parent perspective. So I think that that allows us to go so much further in how we can support and help children,


Sam Demma (22:24):
Speaking of gratitude and appreciation, not only educators, but everyone that works with young people, including yourself and other social workers. If you haven’t heard it recently, thank you so much for the work that you have done and continue to do. If parents aren’t telling you our students it’s making a massive impact. And I appreciate it. Because I know when I was in school, I could have definitely used a teacher that I could celebrate my wins with. Also share my challenges in a very safe environment. Thank you so much. This has been an awesome conversation. If someone is listening and wants to reach out, ask a question or share some feedback, what would be the best way for them to reach out and get in touch with you?


Tali Aziza (23:05):
Yeah, absolutely. And I’m always happy if anyone sort of wants to come up with some ideas or is maybe struggling with something please feel free to reach out. I’m happy to brainstorm together. I can be reached by email and it is taliazizacnp@gmail.com


Sam Demma (23:25):
Awesome. Tally, thank you so much. Keep up the great work and we’ll talk soon.


Tali Aziza (23:30):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

Join the Educator Network & Connect with Tali Aziza

The High Performing Educator Podcast was brought to life during the outbreak of COVID-19 to provide you with inspirational stories and practical advice from your colleagues in education.  By tuning in, you will hear the stories and ideas of the world’s brightest and most ambitious educators.  You can expect interviews with Principals, Teachers, Guidance Counsellors, National Student Association, Directors and anybody that works with youth. You can find and listen to all the episodes for free here.

January 19, 2022 by School Counsellor Social Worker Student Success Teachers Teaching Tips 0

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